CITY OF SHAWNEE
CITY COUNCIL MEETING
DECEMBER 22, 2008
Mayor Meyers called the meeting to order at 7:32 p.m. in the Shawnee City Hall Council
Chambers. He welcomed the public and all stood and recited the Pledge of Allegiance, followed
by a moment of silence.
Councilmembers Present Staff Present
Councilmember Scott City Manager Gonzales
Councilmember Pflumm Deputy City Clerk Powell
Councilmember Sawyer City Attorney Rainey
Councilmember Goode Assistant City Attorney Rainey
Councilmember Kuhn City Engineer Wesselschmidt
Councilmember Sandifer Police Chief Morgan
Councilmember Straub Fire Chief Hudson
Councilmember Distler Finance Director Kidney
Planning Director Chaffee
Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom
Information Technologies Director Doherty
Deputy Parks and Recreation Director Lecuru
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke
Planner III Allmon
Members of the public who spoke: (Mayor‟s Items) DAVE MACGILLIVRAY, Springsted
Financial Advisors; (Item 17a) JANET GARMS, Kutak Rock LLC; ROXSEN KOCH, King
Hershey Law Firm, 2345 Grand Avenue, Kansas City, MO; JERRY BICHELMEYER,
Cobblestone Village LLC, ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace; (Item 19) RAY
ERLICHMAN, 7510 Garnett Street, ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace; (Business
from the Floor) RAY ERLICHMAN, 7510 Garnett Street; (Item 20) ROBERT ROWLAND,
14613 W. 53rd Terrace; (Item 21) JOYCE PETERSON, 6406 Anderson.
1. APPROVE MINUTES OF THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING OF DECEMBER 8,
2. REVIEW MINUTES OF THE FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION
COMMITTEE MEETING OF DECEMBER 2, 2008.
3. REVIEW MINUTES OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF
DECEMBER 1, 2008.
PAGE 2 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
4. REVIEW MINUTES OF THE PARKS AND RECREATION BOARD MEETING
OF NOVEMBER 6, 2008.
5. CONSIDER THE ACCEPTANCE OF DEDICATIONS OF LAND FOR PUBLIC
PURPOSES CONTAINED IN FP-17-08-12, THE FINAL PLAT FOR ADAMS
CREST, THIRD PLAT, FOR ONE LOT LOCATED IN THE 6400 BLOCK OF
6. CONSIDER THE ACCEPTANCE OF DEDICATIONS OF LAND FOR PUBLIC
PURPOSES CONTAINED IN FP-18-08-12, THE FINAL PLAT FOR
ENCHANTED LAKE ESTATES, 5TH PLAT, FOR ONE LOT LOCATED IN THE
6400 BLOCK OF OGG ROAD.
7. CONSIDER S-265-08-12, A SIGN VARIANCE REQUEST FOR SIGN COLOR
FOR BLUE HAVEN POOLS AT 23734 WEST 83RD TERRACE.
8. CONSIDER CEREAL MALT BEVERAGE LICENSE RENEWALS (OFF-
Renew the following Licenses for the sale of Cereal Malt Beverages in original and
unopened containers and not for consumption on the premises through December 31,
QuikTrip, 10310 W. 75th Street
QuikTrip, 11915 Johnson Drive
QuikTrip, 6637 Nieman Road
Price Chopper, 12010 Shawnee Mission Parkway
Price Chopper, 22210 W. 66th Street
Snack Shak, 11019 W. 75th Street
Snack Shak , 12941 Shawnee Mission Parkway
Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market, 11010 W. 74th Terrace
Wal-Mart Super Center, 16100 W. 65th Street
Target, 15700 Shawnee Mission Parkway
Hy-Vee, 13550 W. 63rd Street
Shawnee BP, 13515 W. 63rd Street
Star Fuel Center, 16675 Midland Drive
Fast Gas & Snax, 23000 W. 83rd Street
Shop N Go, 23200 W. 55th Street
Depal Enterprises, 5501 Hedge Lane Terrace
Valero, 6235 Nieman Road
Grissos, 7154 Renner Road
Ethio Mart, 10920 Shawnee Mission Parkway
BBB & Assoc. DBA 7-Eleven, 11023 Johnson Drive
9. CONSIDER CEREAL MALT BEVERAGE LICENSE RENEWALS (ON-
PAGE 3 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Renew the following Licenses for the sale of Cereal Malt Beverages for consumption on
the premises through December 31, 2009:
Two Amigos, 10321 W. 75th Street
Knights of Columbus, 11221 Johnson Drive
Tomahawk Hills, 17501 Midland Drive
Ice Sports, 19900 Johnson Drive
Mid America Sports ,20000 Johnson Drive
Pizza Shoppe, 22014 W. 66th Street
Double Dino‟s Pizza, 5436 Roberts Street
Big Bam‟s Burgers, 5930 Nieman Road
Old Shawnee Pizza, 6000 Rogers Road
Chen‟s Super Buffet, 6457 Quivira Road
Wheat State Pizza, 6485 Quivira Road
Bates City BBQ, 6637 Quivira Road
10. CONSIDER MASSAGE ESTABLISHMENT RENEWALS.
Renew the following Licenses for Massage Establishments through December 31, 2009:
Healing Touch Massage Therapy, 8150 Monticello Terrace
Shawnee Fitness Club, 6518 Vista Drive
Composure, LLC, 14811 W 74th Court
Alpha Omega Massage Therapy, 11800 Shawnee Mission Pkwy
Sound Mind and Body, 12402 W 62nd Terrace
Barb Rinne Massage, 11652 W 75th Street
Coloroom, 7397 Quivira
Professional Body Works, 11805 W 62nd Place
Shay Belle‟s, 22736 Midland Drive
Heaven on Earth, 11004 Johnson Drive
Herbst, JoAnna, 14505 W. 53rd Terrace
Hello Beautiful, 5378 Roberts
La Vita Bella Day Spa, 5416 Roberts
11. CONSIDER INTERGRAPH AGREEMENT, FIRST AMENDMENT.
Councilmember Goode, seconded by Councilmember Sandifer, moved to approve the entire
Consent Agenda. The motion carried 8-0.
12. RATING UPGRADE PLAQUE PRESENTATION.
Mayor Meyers stated in August of this year, the City issued $27.2 million in bonds. This
issue was very important because it included refinancing of a lot of old debt. He stated as
PAGE 4 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
part of the normal process for bond sale, the City requested that Moody‟s Investor
Service apply a rating to the bonds the week before the issuance of debt. He stated this
bond rating sets out Moody‟s opinion of the credit risk of the City based on a variety of
factors. At that time, they received notice from Moody‟s Investor Service that the City‟s
bonds would be upgraded to Aa2 from Aa3. This is the first credit upgrade since 1998
and is an indication from the financial experts at Moody‟s that Shawnee is improving its
financial position and taking steps in managing its money.
Mayor Meyers stated the upgrade contributed to the City realizing more than $1.2 million
in savings on debt issued that evening. He welcomed Dave MacGillivray, Chairman of
Springsted Financial Advisors, who has played a long role in the City‟s financial
management and will make a formal presentation of a plaque recognizing this
DAVE MACGILLIVRAY, Chairman of Springsted Financial Advisors, stated as Mayor
Meyers stated, during the bond sale process this year the City‟s credit rating was
reviewed by Moody‟s Investor Service. He stated in that process, the rating was
upgraded to Aa2. He stated upgrades do not happen that often and do not happen that
often in this economy. He thinks it speaks well for the decisions of the Mayor and the
Council, as well as the work of the professional staff giving them recommendations.
DAVE MACGILLIVRAY stated just to go over some of the substance of the time of
Moody‟s when they review credit ratings looking for factors, governance, management,
financial operations, debts, and socioeconomics, their comments on the written report
noted the growing tax base of the community and the growth. He stated secondly, they
noted the sound financial operations with ample reserves. Thirdly, there is the above
average, but manageable, debt level reflect regional growth. He stated when they talk
about debt in this context, it is not just the City‟s but the school district and the County
and they note the proportion of the debt that is attributed to the school district in the City
DAVE MACGILLIVRAY stated, as the Mayor pointed out particularly in this market,
good credit quality means substantially lower interest rates and substantially lower
interest rates mean lower property taxes for the citizens. He stated he thinks these are
significant achievements and yield significant dividends for the citizens and property tax
payers of the City.
DAVE MACGILLIVRAY stated when they have one of these Springsted likes to
memorialize it a bit. He presented a plaque to Mayor Meyers and the City Council of the
City of Shawnee.
Mayor Meyers stated that he and the rest of the City Council are very excited about the
upgrade. He thanked Mr. MacGillivray for the work he does with the City‟s financial
management because they all value his expertise. He stated additionally, this is a great
reflection on the City Council, Finance Director Kidney, as well as all the City staff
PAGE 5 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Mayor Meyers stated some things about this rating are outside of their control, such as
economic conditions, but there are many things within their control like good financial
planning and making difficult decisions to raise taxes and to cut programs when needed.
He stated this upgrade is a statement to this community that they are doing a good job
managing the finances of this City. He congratulated the City Council, City staff, City
Manager Gonzales, and Finance Director Kidney.
13. THE MAYOR MAY PRESENT OTHER ITEMS FOR CONSIDERATION.
There were no other Mayor‟s items.
14. CONSIDER THE REAPPOINTMENTS OF MICHELLE (SHELLY) FABAC AND
PETER EHRLICH TO THE PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD.
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Goode, moved to reappoint
Michelle (Shelly) Fabac and Peter Ehrlich to the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board
with a term expiring on June 30, 2011. The motion carried 8-0.
15. CONSIDER APPOINTMENT TO THE PARKS AND RECREATION BOARD.
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Goode, moved to appoint Bob
Dyche as the Ward III representative to the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board with a
term expiring on December 31, 2011. The motion carried 8-0.
16. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF A MASSAGE LICENSE FOR ZENERGY.
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Goode, moved to approve a
massage license for Zenergy, located at 15319 W. 67th Street through December 31,
2009, provided the applicant satisfies all conditions of Shawnee Municipal Code 5.40,
including a special inspection by the Codes Administration Division. The motion carried
17. PUBLIC HEARING, ADOPT ORDINANCE APPROVE REDEVELOPMENT
AGREEMENT ON COBBLESTONE.
Mayor Meyers stated that on November 16, 2007, the City received an official
application from Cobblestone Village, LLC. On October 13, 2008, the City Council
passed Ordinance No. 2916 establishing a Redevelopment District. On October 27, 2008,
the City Council adopted Resolution No. 1570 setting a public hearing for December 8,
2008, to consider adoption of a proposed Redevelopment Project Plan. On December 8,
PAGE 6 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
the City Council opened the Public Hearing and for good cause having been shown,
recessed the public hearing to the Council meeting of December 22, 2008.
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Scott, moved to reconvene the
public hearing, first convened on December 8, 2008 and for good cause shown recessed
until this time, on approval of the Redevelopment Project Plan for Cobblestone Village,
LLC. The motion carried 8-0.
Finance Director Kidney stated the staff prepared a PowerPoint presentation overview for
the City Council this evening. This presentation includes the project plan by City staff, a
feasibility study, operating costs, and the full agreement which are all included in
tonight‟s packet. He stated hopefully the Council all had a chance to review this
material. He made note that the staff has extensively reviewed all of this material and
now he will briefly go through the history of the process they have gone through.
Finance Director Kidney stated they already established the district to include the items
that were involved in putting together a TIF district. He stated the City actually has a
redevelopment district that is completed. He stated once they have a district, the next
step is putting together a project within the district and doing a redevelopment agreement
with the developer to perform that project within the district.
Finance Director Kidney stated he has put together the steps they have been through for
the approval. He stated they had the application and the Planning Commission reviewed
and determined that the plan is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. He stated they
had the Notice of Public Hearing and are finishing up the public hearing this evening. He
stated before the Council this evening is consideration of an ordinance approving the
project and execution of an agreement with Cobblestone Village Development LLC to
make this project official.
Finance Director Kidney stated this is pay-as-you-go funding which basically means
when the incremental taxes comes back from the County to the City he will then take the
expenditures or the receipts that the developers have given to him for reimbursement and
pay out of only those monies that they have received through the increment. He stated
the City is only liable for any taxes they receive as part of the increment and this
agreement does not talk to any issuance of debt for this project.
Finance Director Kidney pointed out that the developer asked the City put into the
agreement that if down the road it makes feasible sense for the City to issue bonds for
this, that they would at least consider that at a future date. He stated that is included, but
would have to come back to the Council for any type of debt transaction on this. He
stated this development is pretty much pay-as-you go funding.
Finance Director Kidney stated with the agreement, the City will reimburse the developer
only for project costs listed as eligible for reimbursement. There is the cap amount of
$4,729,000. He stated the provision for this amount can be lowered, based on the
outcome of appraisal for commercial property.
PAGE 7 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Finance Director Kidney stated one of the items of value that is included in the $4.7
million is a portion of the land for commercial purposes. He stated the City came up with
a value for that amount. He stated the developer came up with an amount for that and if
they took the developer‟s amount for that commercial portion, the total would be $4.7
million. He stated they are going to do a separate appraisal for that amount and that will
be the amount of the commercial that they would reimburse the developer, but the total is
$4.7 million and if anything it would lower from that amount if the appraisal came in
lower than that portion.
Finance Director Kidney presented the three items of the agreement. The City is
reimbursing for improvements that are public, the streets, related to the redevelopment
and that is the cost of improving the new parkland and taking out the duplexes and the
direct attributable to the commercial development portion.
Finance Director Kidney stated the payouts to the developer would be limited to a ratio of
public-to-private investments. He stated this provision is to ensure that private
improvements are built in connection with the reimbursable improvements. He stated
that is to say if the developer goes and does all the public improvements and asks for
reimbursement from that, the City will want to see the same proportion of expenditures to
the $53 million before they would reimburse them for that. That basically protects the
City for the public improvements to be made and then if the developer does not do one of
those major items or something. He stated in actuality, the practical part of that is that
there will not be the increment to reimburse them but is still a ratio in there 92% to 8%,
meaning for every $8.00 reimbursed as part of this agreement, there has to be $92.00
expended for the private part of the development.
Finance Director Kidney stated the agreement does include reimbursement to the
developer for financing costs. He stated when they go for private financing, the City will
reimburse them the rate that they receive for their loan, but are capping it at 8%. He
stated that is another one of those items that could be lower and he is not exactly sure
with this market what the rates are, but the City did lock their commitment to the 8% side
Finance Director Kidney stated there are provisions for fees. He stated currently they are
operating under a funding agreement with the developer. He stated the funding
agreement will end after 60 days beyond approval of the redevelopment agreement. He
stated from that point on, any fee that the City would incur for professional services and
for any kind of evaluation or anything, will be paid out of the future increment from this
Finance Director Kidney stated there is also an administrative fee. He stated it is one-half
of 1% including City staff and other minor items that the General Fund would normally
pay for. That fee is also included in this agreement.
PAGE 8 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Finance Director Kidney continued with improvements that the developer has control
over the construction of the private improvements. He stated the City will approve
construction of the public improvements. He stated the City will approve all the
contractors, consultants, engineers – just everyone associated with the public
improvement side. He stated the City will issue Certificates of Completion on all aspects
of the project.
Finance Director Kidney stated the agreement is limited to 20 years. He stated that is by
statute, or if and when they hit the maximum amount of reimbursement available –
whichever happens first.
Finance Director Kidney stated part of this agreement also talks about the parkland
exchange agreement. He stated if the project plan and redevelopment agreement is
approved tonight, or whenever it is approved, the agreement for parkland exchange will
be brought to the Council for consideration on January 12, 2009.
Finance Director Kidney stated the action staff is looking for is to hold a public hearing
on the project, consider adoption of the ordinance, and consider approval of the
Councilmember Kuhn asked about the 20 year length of time by statute for the TIF, she
wants to make sure she understands this very clearly. She stated the incremental amounts
do not necessarily have to be done over the 20 years and the developer could go out and
do the development improvements during the first five years and actually reach the
maximum amount of the $4.7 million in incremental that the City would owe to him. She
stated the City would not pay any of it to him because they would not have built out the
remainder of the project, so the project would not have gained the incremental taxes
coming back in yet. She asked if that statement is accurate so far.
Finance Director Kidney answered yes. He stated if there is more increment that comes
in and pays off quicker than the 20 years.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if the project starts and they do all of the infrastructure
improvements, which obviously is where the reimbursable costs to the developer would
come from – the public improvements. She stated the developer goes in and does all that,
so he would have gained the increment that the City would then be responsible for paying
back to him, however up to that point if there is no buildings built there is no increase in
the tax assessment of it, so they would not have brought back in their increment to them
Finance Director Kidney stated that is correct.
Councilmember Kuhn stated if the developer does that over the next two years, but
because of the way the economy is he chooses not to do all 110 of the independent
housing right away and during that time, let‟s say, it takes longer than the 20 years for
that increment, once they hit the 20 years are they done even if he has hit the $4.7 million
PAGE 9 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
in Year 5 and his expenditures, but it takes 22 years to reach the point in which the City
would have reimbursed him all of it because it took a long time to develop.
Finance Director Kidney replied there are a couple issues with that. He stated first being,
it is 20 years. He stated from the time that this agreement is approved, it is over in 20
years regardless what has been reimbursed up to that point.
Councilmember Kuhn stated at the end of 20 years if the City has only reimbursed him
$1.5 million, but in Year 21 they would have had enough increment coming back in to
reimburse the other $3.5 million, they would not do it because statutorily they would
have been done.
JANET GARMS, Kutak Rock, LLP, 1010 Grand, Kansas City, Missouri, replied that it is
20 years from the day the project plan is approved. She stated if the Council were to
approve it today, then it would be 20 years from today‟s date.
Finance Director Kidney answered yes.
ROXSEN KOCH, King Hershey Law Firm, 2345 Grand Avenue, Kansas City, Missouri,
stated she is present this evening with her associate, Chad Lamer. She stated she may
call upon Chad to answer any questions as well or for any further detail. She stated also
present this evening is Jerry Bichelmeyer, one of the key principals and the developer of
Cobblestone LLC. She stated also with them this evening is Gordon Lorimore, who is
with the developer as well.
ROXSEN KOCH confirmed that the public hearing has been open.
Mayor Meyers answered yes.
ROXSEN KOCH stated she wants to address a point or question that Councilmember
Kuhn raised which is a very key point this evening, being that all of the risk is on the
developer. She stated the City is not issuing any financing; no debt to finance this
project. She stated it is the developer‟s obligation to build the proposed development.
ROXSEN KOCH stated if the development takes longer to build out and therefore all the
revenues they project, the incremental increases in taxes that they project, if those
numbers are not hit, then likely he will receive less in reimbursement. She stated if he
builds them faster and if they are worth more then they are projecting, he will still be
capped at the $4.7 million of the cost that will be reimbursed, plus capped at the 8%
interest. She stated if the developer goes out and if his borrowing costs are 9% he is not
going to get reimbursed that extra 1% and is capped at an 8% level.
ROXSEN KOCH stated that it is very important that the risk of this project is born solely
by this developer. She stated that he is going to be solely responsible for going out and
obtaining the financing in order to pay for the full $59 million of project costs they are
PAGE 10 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
estimating for this particular project. She stated she wanted to reinforce that and thinks it
is a key point as the Council proceeds.
ROXSEN KOCH stated it was mentioned earlier that the developer could come back in a
few years and ask the Council to go ahead and issue bonds. She stated that would be at
the sole discretion of the Council. She stated there have been examples in other cities
where they have chosen to go ahead and do that, where the developer has fronted all the
financial, the project gets built out and they have no income stream so there are a couple
of years where the assessor has come in, valued these buildings and the properties at
„this‟, they see the properties are occupied, and the city at that point in time may say it
makes a lot of sense for them because the developer‟s interest rate from his lender is at
7% and with the City‟s new improved bond rating they could very well go out potentially
in several years and borrow at the rate of 4% or 5%. She stated if they did that, they
could pay the developer back early and all the money coming in would be used to
reimburse the bonds at 4% versus reimbursing the developer at the 7% rate and in
essence get that paid down quicker.
ROXSEN KOCH stated she thinks it is important to lay that groundwork initially with
regard to how this financing works. She asked for questions regarding the risk.
Councilmember Sawyer asked Ms. Cope where the $59 million came from.
ROXSEN KOCH replied that the estimated total project cost is $59 million.
City Manager Gonzales stated the number on Finance Director Kidney‟s PowerPoint
presentation is actually the cost net the City‟s increment and the total project cost is
found on Page 126 of the packet ($58,519,000).
ROXSEN KOCH replied it is actually $58,519,250.00. She stated she rounded up to $59
ROXSEN KOCH asked Mr. Jerry Bichelmeyer to come up and describe the
JERRY BICHELMEYER stated the project plan itself, as shown on the overhead, is a
mixture of the commercial property along the front consisting of approximately 70,000 to
80,000 SF of office/commercial/retail that fronts on Pflumm Road and the surrounding
parking, the 110 villas that are over the western 20 acres of the project, and he will show
the Council the cluster plan of how they are situated on the property. He stated towards
the back of the property, the pond to the left is the senior housing component and will be
an 80-unit independent living apartment building. He stated in the corner of the pond is
the great house or the clubhouse for the villas and the independent living facility.
JERRY BICHELMEYER stated the park along front shown on Pflumm Road - the
development takes out six properties that front on Pflumm Road and about three of those
are in the area where the park will be shifted. He stated the northern commercial building
PAGE 11 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
is over about the other three residential properties that were taken off and shifting that
part towards Pflumm Road enables them to pick up to some additional villas on the 20
He stated they will have renderings as they come in with the redevelopment agreement.
He stated he does not know how much the Council wants to get into the detail. He stated
what they have here is basically how the buildings are laid out on the approximately 30
acres. He stated along with the improvements, they have improvements to 62nd Street
from Widmer to Pflumm Road. They have the fire access safety lane shown along with
the improvements to the park.
JERRY BICHELMEYER stated if it is okay this evening, while he is here, he has a few
other things written down. He thanked the Mayor, City Council, and especially the staff,
City Manager Gonzales, City Attorney Rainey, Finance Director Kidney, and Jenny and
Dave from Springsted, along with Janet Garms from Kutak Rock, and Roxsen Koch and
Chad Lamer from King Hershey for all the time and hard work they have put into this
project. He stated they have worked extremely long and hard to come up with the
financial numbers that are acceptable to both the City and to the developer.
JERRY BICHELMEYER stated as for the Cobblestone Development, he can think of no
better use for these properties than the plan they have before the City Council. He stated
the commercial buildings will provide restaurants, offices, and business space that will
service the development and the surrounding area. He stated there is the senior housing
building that will provide independent living for the elderly and the villas that will
provide one of the first active adult 55+ communities in the area.
JERRY BICHELMEYER stated the TIF funding will also provide for the needed
improvements of 62nd Street from Widmer to Pflumm Road, the safety access lane to the
Widmer Woods and Timber Oaks subdivision, and to improve the adjoining park. He
stated this project and these improvements are not possible without the TIF financing
plan that they have before the Council. He stated it will allow them to be able to build
the type and quality of development that will benefit the City of Shawnee and its
Councilmember Pflumm thanked Mr. Bichelmeyer and his team for bringing all their
investors and this project to Shawnee. He stated everything so far looks like a great
project. He stated in these economic times, anything positive in the development scene is
a great thing for Shawnee.
JERRY BICHELMEYER stated they are very excited to come to the City with these
plans and get started on the project. He stated he is very confident it will be an award
winning project for the design and the buildings built there. He stated it will be very
attractive and he is very proud with what he is bringing to the City of Shawnee.
Councilmember Goode he has known the Bichelmeyer group for many years. He stated
he has known Jerry Bichelmeyer‟s father and grandfather – all of them, and what he
PAGE 12 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
really likes about this project is the multiple increases in this project, and he says multiple
in a diversified tax base. He stated it is diversified and that is what he likes. He thinks
that is where they are going to see the success. He stated they are not all honed in on one
thing. He thinks that will make a difference in the project and is one of the reasons he is
going to support this whole thing and support it strong.
JERRY BICHELMEYER stated that is one of the attractive things about this, because
when they live in this project they will be able to walk within 300 yards to a grocery store
on one side, to the library and community center, and the #1 amenity for a 55+ active
community is walking trails, which have both been incorporated into the plan and into the
JERRY BICHELMEYER thanked Parks and Recreation Director Holman with the Parks
and Recreation Department whose staff has been very workable on this project and has
enabled them to get to this point. He thanked everyone with the City on all their help
with this project.
Mayor Meyers asked for any comments or questions from the audience.
ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace, stated he understands this seems to be a
project that he believes a previous councilmember had looked at mixed development a
little further to the west closer to the I-435/Johnson Drive/67th Street area a number of
years ago. He stated that he believes to the west and north by the Wal-Mart area is
already existing two senior facilities; one having just finished breaking ground.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated in his neighborhood, the area around 55th Street and
Pflumm, along with on Johnson Drive a bit more to the east, there are home divisions or
subdivisions that have already stopped building. He stated there is Granite Falls,
Christcross, the people who developed Lakeview Estates, and there are houses in his
neighborhood that do not seem to be selling at quite the rate. He stated the only concern
he would have, and Kansas City is probably one of the worst examples recently in the
local press, is that they in any way one dollar or two dollars or $4.5 million gets placed
into financial requirements that they are at risk or have to continue to pay anything if the
development does not continue as looked.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated four or five months ago there was a gentleman from the
Home Builders Association who stood in these chambers and said housing sales were
down 45%. He stated he just reviewed the numbers a day or two ago and doubts those
numbers have greatly improved. He stated his only concern is that while it is a great
idea, he thinks a large part of the world is based on mixed mode developments. He just
wants to make sure that the City, his taxed funds, do not go to pay for things that a year,
two year, five years, or 10 years from now will be looked back upon and they are saying
if only they had known that maybe it would not have built out as fast, maybe they would
not get the development or the restaurants. He stated there seems to be a large number of
restaurants and a large number of businesses that are closing and/or have flipped. He
stated CC‟s Pizza on Shawnee Mission Parkway is one example.
PAGE 13 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
ROBERT ROWLAND stated there is a new area being torn up by former councilmember
Tubbesing right across the street from a Taco Bell in Shawnee and it looks like there is an
abundance of development already and wants to make sure that the City is once again not
in any way on the hook.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she has read through the development agreement probably
ten times today. She stated that she recognized when it talks about when the
reimbursement can happen, but the way she is reading it, or have read through it, it is her
understanding that the improvements deal more with the infrastructure things obviously
and not the physical buildings because that is not tied into the TIF. She asked where in
there does it talk about how much of the buildings have to be built before the City would
reimburse anything other than based on the TIF increment coming in. She asked where
the percentage of commercial is that has to be built, since that is what they are basing the
TIF on, being up and built, before they start reimbursing on that increment and how does
the City control any of it.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she has read through all of this and not to take anything
from the City‟s attorneys, but since she is married to one she asked him to look at it, and
he couldn‟t find it for her.
City Manager Gonzales stated she believes it is in the area of the ratio that protects the
City. She asked Janet Garms if she would address Councilmember Kuhn‟s question.
Councilmember Kuhn stated here question is what all portions of it were considered
private, because she assumed also that his portions of other roads going through the
residential development would count, as would the fire hydrants, land development, and
landscaping. She stated that all did not talk to her about hard costs for actual buildings.
City Manager Gonzales referred to Page 126 where it includes all the costs and the first
column with the $58 million that was talked about earlier. She stated that is where the
92/8 ratio came from.
Councilmember Kuhn stated that does not specify things. She stated her deepest concern
having to do with it, is being fairly concerned about the environment they are in and
watching a number of developers start into a development, no matter how quality it is,
and not being able to get their bank to continue financing and a cutoff of draws against
those things makes her a little concerned that the City will end up with an incredibly
beautiful streetscape and landscape, but not a lot of buildings because they might not
have the ability to keep those going. She stated while that does not put the City on the
hook, so to speak, for the dollars because the increments would have not went up, it does
leave them with a piece of land that then can not be developed in any other way because
the streetscape, etc. would be in possibly to meet that.
PAGE 14 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
City Manager Gonzales stated at any point in the process as the City would reimburse
increment, it will be to that 8/92% portion, so there has to continue to be increased
private investment for the increment to be reimbursed.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if that could all be put on the residential side of it before.
She stated the incremental amount, looking at this, there is less than 25% of the entire
development in commercial which really lends itself to the TIF portion of it and that is
where the staff went back and said they should pull that out. She stated her question is
since the remainder of the TIF reimbursable increment is coming from the residential and
since that is where the majority of the business is coming from, it would make nothing
but sense to her as a developer to go in, put in her infrastructure, do her landscape, and
start heavily building on the residential side expecting that to be where her increments
were going to come from and put off the commercial until the end. She stated if
something then should happen where that a development would not forward for reasons
absolutely not, to take away from the developer‟s good intent or great name and complete
intent of his intension to go that way, that would be her concern is that then they would
perhaps not lived up to the spirit of what the vehicle that TIF financing really is for.
City Manager Gonzales responded that there is no guarantee that the commercial would
be built and the ratio is how the City protects itself.
JANET GARMS, Kutak Rock, LLC, stated to try to help address Councilmember Kuhn‟s
question, City Manager Gonzales is correct, in that she does not think there is any
guarantee that is built in there that says the developer will build „this commercial
building‟ before they build „X amount of houses‟. She stated on the other hand, there is
the protection of the ratio and there is no reimbursement until the public improvements
are built. She stated what is built from the private is what will generate the increment,
whether it is the commercial, residential, or a combination thereof to be able to reimburse
JANET GARMS stated, as Roxanne pointed out earlier, the risk is strictly on the
developer. She stated it could be that the City ends up with streets, but unless the
developer builds something else, the City will have the streets and he will have paid for
them. She stated Roxanne has also pointed out that this is a two step process. She stated
there is a reimbursable cost and then it has to be certified. She stated once it is certified,
then the reimbursable cost can be paid back to the developer, but they have to meet the
development schedule which is attached as well.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she did not want in any way to imply that her question
whether the developer would be giving the City bogus numbers. She stated she has
nothing but the utmost faith that what they would be presented is 100% on the up and up
and is far more concerned about a much bigger picture of what the type of financing they
are doing and no matter how quality of a development she thinks this, whether she thinks
it is an appropriate for tax increment financing based on what she thinks that should be
PAGE 15 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
City Manager Gonzales stated Janet is saying that on Page 125 the agreement is
contingent upon that schedule.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if the developer builds 62nd Street and can not get
financing to build the rest of it, is the City then on the hook for 62nd Street.
City Manager Gonzales answered no.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if that is a for sure, or a maybe answer. He asked if the
reimbursement on the interest is included in the $4.7 million or over and above the $4.7
Finance Director Kidney replied it is over and above the $4.7 million. He stated the $4.7
million is the hard reimbursement – the principle of a loan.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if it is then more than $4.7 million.
Finance Director Kidney replied that is correct.
Councilmember Sawyer asked off the top of their heads what that number is.
Finance Director Kidney replied he believes $9.7 million.
Councilmember Sawyer stated it is approaching closer to $10 million.
Finance Director Kidney stated $4.7 million at 8% based on a pay-as-you-go note report
on Page 75 of the packet would be a total reimbursement to the developer of $9,427,000.
He stated there is a total amount of increment available of approximately $11 million, but
best case scenario everything works exactly as this which would not ever happen would
be $9.4 million.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if the streets that are built in this development are private
streets, or do they become City streets.
Finance Director Kidney replied the streets within the development are private.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if the City does not have to maintain those streets.
Finance Director Kidney replied the City would have the same responsibility that they
have today on other private streets. He stated he can not answer to street lights, but
thinks they would be all private.
Councilmember Sawyer asked about snow removal.
Finance Director Kidney replied that would be private.
PAGE 16 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Councilmember Sawyer asked about repairing the streets if they fall apart.
Finance Director Kidney stated that would be private.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that would be private until at such a point that the
development gets built out and they find that they can not afford to maintain it and then
obviously like most of the others, come to the City wanting them to take them. He asked
if they are being built that that could happen to those kinds of standards. He stated he
knows the City has some streets that they have refused to take because they are not
City Manager Gonzales replied the City‟s requirement today is that private streets are
built to public standards.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the possibility is always there, as usual, that after the
development is built out they could come back to the City and say they do not want to
maintain them and want to make them City streets.
City Manager Gonzales stated the developer could make that request, but she does not
think the City has said yes to any of those types of requests they have received.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he thought the City said yes to one.
City Manager Gonzales stated she does not recall.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he would bring something up, as far as the private streets
are concerned, they have talked about private streets in developments before and those
people living in those houses on those private streets pay the same taxes as the guy who
lives on Pflumm Road or anyone else. He stated he has not seen the negative in the City
taking over those streets, because really the developer is paying for those streets now just
like in another subdivision, but they are private in order to come up with a development
like that which suits the 21st Century, as opposed to a lot of the City‟s other codes with a
lot of bigger setbacks.
Councilmember Sawyer stated as they all know, there is a cost to maintaining a street.
He stated to date, the City has not been able to build a street that lasts 20 years where
they have not had to go back in and do something to it in seven to ten years. He stated
there is a cost lying out there, whether they want to think it will or will not happen and is
not saying it will. He stated that is something they need to think about here, because this
sounds like a great development but he is looking at it from a different angle; what are
they going to put the rest of the City‟s taxpayers on the line for. He stated it sounds like
nothing here, but TIFs concern him greatly because they hear constantly how it ends up
costing the City more money than what is anticipated when they are originally set up and
that is his concern.
PAGE 17 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Mayor Meyers stated he would simply make the comment that going into this project, it
is not the City‟s intention to take over private streets. He thinks that is how they should
look at it and have the belief that it is not their intention if the developer would ever come
back and want the City to take over those streets. He believes that is one of the benefits
the City receives through the developer taking these on as private streets and building
them to City standards.
ROBERT ROWLAND, stated he may not be the best governmental expense expert, but it
seems to him that the $4.7 million to recover that with a City tax amount of
approximately 1% and asked if that is the City tax rate on sale tax items if he buys
something at the grocery store.
Finance Director Kidney asked Mr. Rowland to restate his question.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated to recover the $4.7 million with a 1% benefit, seems that
the City will need to generate somewhere in the neighborhood of about $400-some
million. He stated $4 million, $40 million, or $400 million is 1%. He asked if the City
gives up $4.7 million, the only way they would have gotten $4.7 million back is how and
if that is correct, that seems to be about 20 years worth of the City Council‟s $2+
JANET GARMS stated this project is not paid from sales tax. She stated it is property
tax increment which is the real estate property taxes.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated it is paid out of his pocket, whether it comes out of the
front pocket or the back pocket – it is his wallet.
JANET GARMS stated it is not generating$400,000 or $400 million worth of sales tax.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated in order for the City to see . . . if the City wanted to spend
$4.7 million extra and wanted to pump up sales tax to do a 1%, and he is using California
as an example because they are trying to do this to recover some billions of dollars, 1% of
$4+ million is the 4.7. He stated he just wants to make sure if it is offset with sales tax at
any point that anybody ever thinks how they are going to move money from Peter to Paul
- that is a lot of money.
A representative of the City having presented the proposed Redevelopment Project Plan
and all interested persons having been given an opportunity to be heard, Councilmember
Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Scott, moved to conclude the public hearing. The
motion carried 8-0.
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Sandifer, moved to pass an
ordinance approving the Redevelopment Project Plan for Cobblestone Village LLC. The
motion carried 6-3, with Mayor Meyers voting in favor of the ordinance together with
Councilmembers Scott, Pflumm, Goode, Straub, and Sandifer. Councilmembers Sawyer,
PAGE 18 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Kuhn, and Distler voted nay. The Ordinance having received a two-thirds vote in favor
was declared passed and was assigned No. 2920.
Councilmember Scott, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to authorize the
Mayor to sign the Redevelopment Agreement for Cobblestone Village LLC. The motion
carried 5-3, with Councilmembers Scott, Pflumm, Goode, Straub, and Sandifer voting
aye and Councilmembers Sawyer, Kuhn, and Distler voting nay.
Mayor Meyers extended his appreciation to all parties involved in this complex issue. He
stated that he looks forward to a fantastic development and something moving forward in
the City. He stated he is very excited about this development knows that it is going to be,
he believes, very positive for the City of Shawnee and all who are involved.
ITEMS FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF DECEMBER 1, 2008
18. CONSIDER SUP-16-08-12, A REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR
INFUSED, LLC, TO ALLOW A RESTAURANT WITH LIVE MUSIC IN THE CH
(COMMERCIAL HIGHWAY) ZONING DISTRICT, LOCATED AT 5358
Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Straub, moved to approve SUP-16-
08-12, a special use permit issued to Infused Restaurant, to provide live entertainment in
the form of bands in the CH (Commercial Highway) zoning district located at 5358
Roberts Street. The motion carried 8-0.
ITEMS FROM THE FINANCE & ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MEETING OF
DECEMBER 2, 2008 CHAIRED BY COUNCILMEMBER PFLUMM
19. CONSIDER ESTABLISHMENT OF A RECYCLING TASK FORCE.
Councilmember Pflumm stated that the Committee recommends 4-0 the Mayor appoint a
task force to make a recommendation to the City Council regarding Shawnee‟s curbside
Councilmember Pflumm stated he has received a couple calls on this, mostly positive.
He stated he would hope that they will be able to come up with a task force that is
derived from all wards and age groups, because he actually had a call come in from a
young lady with small kids who is really excited about recycling, along with some older
people from this ward.
Councilmember Straub stated he would like to sit on that task force.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if anyone has any idea how big this task force should be.
PAGE 19 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
City Manager Gonzales stated she thinks they should look at somewhere around 10
people, because that seems to be a manageable number. She stated that she and Assistant
City Manager Charlesworth laid out a scheduled and in January hopefully they will hold
2-3 public meetings to show the County‟s Solid Waste Plan, similar to what was shown at
the recent committee meeting and educate citizens at that time. She stated at that time
they can ask people who attend the meetings to leave statements of interest if they would
like to sit on the task force. She stated her thoughts were similar to those of
Councilmember Pflumm, to make sure that they could get a good representation across
the City demographically. She stated they would hope to convene that in February and
have a recommendation back to the City Council by the end of March.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he would hope that they would do that and that they
would make it inclusive where all members get to have some input on the task force.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she would also suggest they add it to the City online
website, just a notation. She stated they are starting to see more and more of their
citizens using the website.
Councilmember Sandifer stated he also believes it would probably be better for the task
force not to include any elected officials and just go for outside input.
Mayor Meyers stated at this time he does not think they have a good idea or feel for what
kind of response there is going to be or interest for this task force. He thinks once they
find out a little more about those interest levels, those kinds of decision can be made.
Councilmember Straub stated at least half of the task forces have a City Council member
City Manager Gonzales replied the City really does not have very many task forces. She
stated the smoking task force was a task force of the City and the branding task force was
assembled by the Chamber.
Councilmember Straub asked if they had a City Council member on that task force.
City Manager Gonzales answered yes, but it was different in that it came out of the
Councilmember Straub asked about Old Shawnee Town.
City Manager Gonzales stated Councilmember Pflumm was on the Strategic Planning
Councilmember Pflumm stated Councilmember Pflumm sat on the task force for the
Shawnee Downtown Partnership.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that was not really a task force, but a board.
PAGE 20 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
RAY ERLICHMAN, 7510 Garnett Street, stated as a member of the community, he
would like to say that he concurs with Councilmember Sandifer on his comment. He
stated it is nothing against Councilmember Straub personally, but he will explain. He
stated when there is a task force people get together and submit suggestions and
comments. He stated these comments will come back before the Governing Body, so that
is one reason why he does not think any member of the Governing Body should sit on a
RAY ERLICHMAN stated the second reason is that there could be some people who
could be intimidated by the fact that there is a councilmember sitting on the task force
and it does not have to necessarily be Councilmember Straub, and could be
Councilmember Scott, Councilmember Pflumm, or even Councilmember Sawyer – any
RAY ERLICHMAN stated they are talking about curbside recycling and ever since this
subject came up he has been thinking about it. He stated he would like for the Council to
give some serious thought about changing that name to Residential Recycling. He stated
the reason he says that is because in many communities they talk about curbside
recycling and he agrees it is a good idea, but thinks they are missing the boat when they
are only including curbside because that is private homeowners.
RAY ERLICHMAN stated there are some major large apartment buildings in the City of
Shawnee. He asked Planning Director Chaffee how many units are at Fox Run.
Councilmember Pflumm stated that was actually brought up at a recent committee
meeting. He stated they are really just looking at a recycling task force here.
RAY ERLICHMAN stated he would like the name changed from „curbside‟ to
„residential‟ and it is just his personal opinion. He stated he would like to see a stronger
emphasis placed on that, because he thinks there could be a lot of recycling that could be
done there and could be to everyone‟s benefit.
ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace, stated he actually read some of the
transcripts and they probably do work better when [you] are closer to the microphone.
He asked if the Council has any intent or thought of expanding that to be perhaps a
greater encompassing, not the regular departmental, but perhaps a greater sustainability
that covers not just glass, paper, cardboard into green boxes, but how to be better building
. . . maybe tie in with some of the staff that stood behind him a few months ago with the
homebuilders association – things how they can do to be more energy efficient, reduce
water – various things that unless [you] catch the right guy at Home Depot that will tell
you about the right shower head or how to do furnaces – what are most appropriate in
[our] area, whether or not we can tie in with any of the building codes if we are
retrofitting houses or anything like that, rather than just a somewhat narrow focus, but
perhaps in the breadth of what else can be done from a proactive city, whether or not that
would be something else.
PAGE 21 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
ROBERT ROWLAND continued by stating that that is actually the reason he came this
evening. He stated he believes Cobblestone is a little overarching itself, but whether or
not any area other than just green buckets for recycling.
Mayor Meyers stated he is in the same mind as Councilmember Pflumm in that he
believes once this task force gets developed, he is sure they are going to have discussion
along a wide range of issues with recycling – probably everything Mr. Rowland is talking
about. He thinks it is important to have a focus of recycling, because that is one of the
items that they are really trying to make decisions on of how they are going to proceed
with recycling from a City standpoint, which is something they have done a great deal of
in the past so they just have to take a step at how they are going to move forward and
look at whatever changes to be.
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Kuhn, moved to direct the Mayor
to appoint a task force to make a recommendation related to curbside recycling. The
motion carried 8-0.
BUSINESS FROM THE FLOOR
a) Cell Phone Restrictions.
RAY ERLICHMAN, 7510 Garnett Street, stated he would like to bring up a sore
subject. He stated many months ago some of them talked about the possibility of
some restrictions in the City of Shawnee on cell phone usage. He stated some
committee meetings were held on the subject and some very good information
came out of it. He stated certain comments stayed in his mind. One being that
the number of people that were involved in incidents causes by cell phones was
actually a fairly low number based on the statistics provided by the City‟s Police
Department, at least one of the councilmembers made that comment.
RAY ERLICHMAN stated another councilmember said it may be low, but if it
was a relative of theirs or their child, it is a huge number and something only has
to happen one time. He stated since then, there has been some incidents around
the country, although not right here in Shawnee. He stated a few months ago
there was a very major train wreck in California. He stated he is sure they are all
aware of what happened there and the definite contributing cause was text
messaging while operating a train. He stated they are not talking about trains
running through Shawnee Mission Parkway, but still the fact that it was the cell
RAY ERLICHMAN stated last year there was an article in the Denver Post and
he is not sure how many of them on the Council saw it. He presented it on the
overhead showing a semi-truck wrapped around a pole. He read:
PAGE 22 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
The Colorado State Patrol called their hazardous materials team out when a
semi-truck lost control and wrapped around a sign post on eastbound I-76 and
88th Avenue at 5:00 a.m. on Wednesday, December 10th.
RAY ERLICHMAN stated for clarification I-76 used to be called I-80 south and
goes from I-80 down to I-25 on an angle – I-80 running across to Cheyenne.
The driver of a semi-truck hauling two trailers was distracted by his cell phone
and ran his rig off a metro highway this morning causing a massage rush hour
traffic snarl authorities said.
RAY ERLICHMAN provided the article to Deputy City Clerk Powell for the
record (See Exhibit A).
Dixon was hauling a double trailer with the rear trailer empty and the lead trailer
full of assorted goods including low level radiation medical supplies.
RAY ERLICHMAN stated that was the part he wanted to bring out. He stated
low level radiation supplies could be little isotopes that are stuck in with x-rays
and some other medical procedures, but a bunch of them can add up. He stated
eventually something is going to happen here in Shawnee. He stated he hates to
say it, but it is going to happen to someone who is a known figure and then all of
a sudden people are going to say they should do something about it.
RAY ERLICHMAN stated his only request tonight, and he figures the odds of
this happening is probably about 2% and he probably has a better chance of Mr.
Obama inviting him out to dinner, is that the Council maybe start thinking about it
again; maybe not formally, but start giving it some thought again. He stated that
it is getting to the point where Ford Motor Company is coming out with a key that
parents can use on cars.
Councilmember Distler stated one of the auto makers is coming up with
something where if the key is in the ignition, cell phones will not work.
RAY ERLICHMAN stated it can be parental control, so the parents can make the
kids up that particular key, but do not necessarily have to use it themselves. He
stated they are talking about this it insurance companies about reduced insurance
costs, etcetera, if they do use this key. He stated he thinks this is getting to the
point where something has to be done and he wanted to bring it back up to the
Councilmember Goode asked Mr. Erlichman what he wants to do about this.
RAY ERLICHMAN replied he would like to see the City Council do something
about this in Shawnee.
PAGE 23 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
20. CONSIDER AWARDING CONTRACT TO GOULD EVANS-ZIMMER FOR THE
I-435 CORRIDOR LAND USE ANALYSIS AND MARKET STUDY.
Mayor Meyers stated that the City requested proposals for the I-435 Corridor Land Use
Analysis and Market Study. Nine firms submitted proposals. A five-member review
panel consisting of City staff, Shawnee Economic Development Council staff and Kansas
City Area Development Council reviewed all proposals and are recommending the team
of Gould Evans-Zimmer.
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Kuhn, moved to authorize the
execution of a consultant contract with Gould Evans-Zimmer of Kansas City, Missouri,
to conduct the I-435 Corridor Land Use Analysis and Market Study.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he still wants to know what the City is going to get out of
this because they are going to spend $80,000+. He stated that he knows the City would
love to get some development out of this, but the City is going to spend this money and
go out here and someone is going to tell them what should happen with the property. He
stated great – everyone‟s happy, but they still have to have a developer; they still have to
have someone who is going to spend the money. He stated it has been the mall site and
everyone was all warm and fuzzy that was going to happen and it went on for 20 years
and never happened.
Councilmember Goode stated the mall site he was involved in happened.
Councilmember Sawyer stated this particular property by this Council was designated the
mall site. He stated someone who comes out and spends the money may not want to do
what the City is going to spend $80,000 on for someone to tell them what should happen,
if he understands this correctly. He stated maybe this company is going to go out and get
the City the developer and get them the project, so maybe he is misunderstanding this
City Manager Gonzales explained that the intent of the study has several key
components. She stated that she thinks Councilmember Sawyer is very right that in the
past they have identified it as a mall site or a mixed use site, but there was not the study
and analysis done prior to making those determinations to determine whether those truly
would be viable uses and would be build-able on the properties that are included in the
corridor, so the intent of this study would be to look at the market viability of that
location, but also combined with the rather challenging typography of the properties
adjacent to the I-435 corridor, the available utilities, and a very through and complete
analysis of the properties along the area. She stated that combined with the market study
will not give them an answer, but several options, ideas, and suggestions about what kind
of developments would be viable there, could be built there, and what kinds of utilities
would need to be brought there and the expense.
PAGE 24 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
City Manager Gonzales stated that package in and of itself does not guarantee the City a
developer, but sure puts them a lot further down the line in being able to find someone
and show them the data they have and the development they would like to see.
City Manager Gonzales stated the first question that she gets and Jim Martin, the
Executive Director of the Shawnee Economic Development Council, gets when people
call about those sites is what the City wants to see there. She stated they want to see
something that is going to work and be an asset to the community, but it needs to be
viable. She stated the intent of the study is to gather as much information as possible to
determine what would be viable usages along that corridor and then to use that
information to hopefully attract developers, but it does not guarantee a developer in any
Mayor Meyers stated it also shows the City is being proactive in continuing to seek
development. He thinks that is something that is extremely important to developers out
there needing sometimes answers that they do not always have, but yet this is going to
give them more information. He stated it shows the City being proactive continuing to
show the interest of the City wanting to attract that development. He stated he knows the
City has residents in that area that are expressing great interest in wanting to look at
developing their properties and the City has also had interest from developers.
Mayor Meyers stated he thinks it is just a matter of the City just continuing to put them
out there encouraging and showing that the City has great interest in developing this area.
He thinks it will pay great dividends.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he would add that he is a proactive person, but in these
economic times they are taking money away from running the City to come up with this.
He stated there are things that came out of the IT budget. He stated unless he is wrong,
the City does not have any way to pay for any of the streets that they need to redo next
year. He stated he just can not believe that they feel the City is flush enough when they
know that this property most likely is going to have to have a TIF to even make it work.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the City willing to go out here and just lay money out
when there are things they need to concern themselves with because the City has a hiring
freeze at this time.
City Manager Gonzales stated they have not filled over 20 positions and consider each of
them on a case by case basis and it is not a flat out freeze, but they are certainly not
filling positions at this time.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they are not out there trying to hire people to help run the
Mayor Meyers stated he thinks they are.
PAGE 25 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Councilmember Sawyer asked if the City is physically out there advertising that they are
Mayor Meyers answered yes – police officers.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that is because of attrition because they have lost some
officers. He asked if that is correct.
City Manager Gonzales answered yes – the City has several vacancies.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they have lost Parks and Recreation staff and people in the
Public Works Department. He stated the City has written a letter to the citizens telling
them that snow removal this year is not going to be at the levels it has been in the past.
He stated that while he believes this is a great thing, he simply believes it is the wrong
time. He stated like every other city, every other state, and every other county in the
whole United States, they need to sit back and wait a minute.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that while they would love to have all of these things, they
have to live within their means and provide to the citizens what they said they were going
to provide. He stated this is $80,000 give or take. He stated that the Council is sitting up
here shirking their responsibilities if they continue to go off on these chases that „it might
happen‟ and sure they would all like for it to happen because it would help immensely if
they could get a tax base out there to help offset things, but there is no guarantee that this
$80,000 is going to get them anything – nothing.
Mayor Meyers stated he believes that statement is very true, because there are never any
guarantees, but he believes they should go out and be proactive. He stated the City has
heard from residents, from the City Council, from the business community, and all
involved throughout the City of Shawnee that they feel that there is a real importance for
Shawnee to go out and be proactive trying to attract and do whatever they can to expand
the tax base in this city. He stated that he thinks that is what they are trying to do here
and these will be dollars well spent and the City will get dividends far and above than just
waiting to see if something is just going to fall in their laps.
Mayor Meyers stated he does not think this is an exuberant amount of money and thinks
it is money that is well spent and can pay great dividends to the City overall. He stated
he would add that he is surely a proponent of this.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he would then ask what they are supposed to tell the
citizens who call in asking why the City decreased their snow removal program this year
– the ones who want to know how the City has money to spend on something like this but
then decrease their snow removal services. He stated Mayor Meyers is the person who is
going to have to start answering all these kinds of questions.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he has people in his ward that want curbs and gutters and
there is no way that it going to happen and this is not going to make that happen.
PAGE 26 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Mayor Meyers stated he thinks it is a positive step towards making things like that to be
able to happen.
Councilmember Sawyer stated no it is not, because they will have to give tax increment
financing for 10 to 20 years to make this happen. He stated this property is going to be
very difficult to develop for a developer and rightfully so. He stated he could probably
get behind that, but it is probably going to be a long time before this tax base that that
will surely help the City achieve will ever be able to help put curbs and gutters on streets,
or even get them back to a level where they can take care of the streets they have done
and had to cut in half last year. He stated he was told by City Manager Gonzales that
they may not be able to do any of this next year.
Mayor Meyers stated any time they provide incentives, the reason behind those
incentives is because they think they are going to receive benefit as a community and this
is no different. He stated this is just like any type of tax abatement incentive they have
given in the past or proposed and this Council has been a part of that many times since he
has been on the Council.
Mayor Meyers stated if the City was not going to see benefit or believe there was going
to be benefit from an incentive, they would not offer them at all. He stated they do
believe there is incentives that will help produce benefit for the community and that is
why they use them. He stated they have been encouraged to use them through the
Leadership Summit and things they have done to try to get input from people in the
business community, residential community, and from the City Council and City staff.
He stated they have acted on that and he thinks this is just another situation where they
are trying to continue to act responsibly but also be proactive to try to encourage some of
that development to take place.
Mayor Meyers stated he would agree it is a tough market right now and they are having
difficult times, but also believes that will change. He believes the more information and
the more prepared the City is for when those things do change, the better position they
will be in as a City to be able to move forward on projects that will allow them the reap
some of the dividends they are currently not reaching at this time.
Councilmember Pflumm concurred.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she too would have to concur with the Mayor on this being
something that is an investment. She stated what she would consider is not looking at
this year and Councilmember Sawyer is correct in that they have no money to be looking
at snow removal.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he is not sitting up here this evening to get a lecture from
any of them so he would prefer they do not use his name. He stated he has made his
PAGE 27 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Councilmember Kuhn stated the answer to it is then if they only consider what she has to
tell her constituents of why she did not spend the $80,000 because she did not have the
money for snow removal this year or the money for curbs, is because if they do not spend
$80,000 on things like this then she will not ever have money for curbs or gutters. She
stated that she, as a councilmember, needs to be more active in not just this year‟s budget
and this year‟s needs, but for the next 10, 15, and 20 year‟s needs.
Councilmember Kuhn stated for those of them who sat here on the Council a few years
back and had to make a very tough decision in raising a tax increment for this city
because people had not done it for the past 15 years, recognized that lesson very hard.
She stated if they as a Council today can think a lot further ahead than this year and say
maybe they will have to spend $80,000 to make this a project that makes people look at
it. She stated unlike businesses that cut things when it is short and gets rid of their sales
people and advertising which does nothing but cuts the legs out from under their
business, right now she should be focusing on getting the things out there that she can
look at for the long term viability of her city.
Councilmember Kuhn continued by stating that that long term is going to come from four
pieces of property that the City still has that has long term big viability for good
development; large mixed use, possible commercial, possible office mix that can bring in
the types of dollars that offset school bonds. She stated it can bring in the types of dollars
that increase curbs and gutter funding and the types of dollars that make it so they do not
have to make the decisions to increase taxes again 15 years from now. She stated to her
this $80,000 is not a guarantee that they are going to figure out someone is going to come
in to buy this piece of land, but it will do two things.
Councilmember Kuhn stated it will put a shiny red bow that retail puts on specific pieces
of merchandise that they want to move and put the bells and whistles in line that
developers are looking for so when she shows them that piece of land, it stands out from
the ones that Lenexa, Olathe, Overland Park, or even Lee‟s Summit might have.
Councilmember Kuhn stated the second thing it will do and what her constituents have
asked her to do a million times over is allow this city to be proactive in thinking about
what they are going to put on that piece of land. She stated right now any developer that
comes to them, the City throws their hands in the air and says they really never thought
about putting it there because they have not put the time, energy, and money necessary to
put the City‟s needs first there.
Councilmember Kuhn stated that by having this kind of a study done, they can say A, B,
C, and D are viable but they are only interested in A and D, so when developers come
forward that is what they can chase, find, and then that is the deal they can close. She
stated to her that is worth $80,000.
Councilmember Sandifer stated he has seen what this service can do and the money that
it can generate, as well as the value it can enhance property because once it is labeled for
what it is good for, it is a great value. He stated the one question he has, is that there is
PAGE 28 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
going to be incentives down the road at some point in time and that is pretty much a
given. He asked if the City can then recoup this back out of the incentives that they are
going to be offering where this would be returned to the City.
City Manager Gonzales replied it is possible, but she does not know for sure. She stated
the way they have framed this, is that it is actually a corridor study so it encompasses at
least 25 different ownerships that might or might not be contained within a same TIF
district. She stated she does not know that they could not.
Councilmember Sandifer stated it might not hurt to see. He stated they could always
break it down into different pieces that could be returned at some period of time. He
stated everyone has their hands out, so the City might as well have theirs out as well to
get it back.
Councilmember Distler stated to Councilmember Sawyer‟s point, she would also like to
keep in mind that the Kansas City Star recently printed an article about the Kansas City
Missouri councilmembers who sat and said the same things about wanting to be proactive
and went and did all these TIFs and abatements and built these great things and now they
are in big financial trouble and having regrets.
Councilmember Distler stated she wants to make sure that whatever Shawnee does, they
do not make the same mistakes as Kansas City, Missouri and wants to learn by their
mistakes because they are in serious trouble today because of all their TIFs, abatements,
and all their special deals that were made. She stated to Councilmember Sawyer‟s point,
she wants to note there are close surrounding cities who are thinking the same thing and
did the same thing and it did not happen the way they thought it would.
Councilmember Goode stated he has been around here a while and not too long ago he
sat right here with a couple other brave individuals and voted to spend $35 million to
build the overpass on Shawnee Mission Parkway and Lackman. He stated he did that
because he wanted to see a shopping center placed out there and did not think there
would ever be a shopping center out there if they did not spend the money. He stated he
had enough guts to do that and was not worrying about getting elected because that is not
a problem of his.
Councilmember Goode stated he thinks if they spend this $85,000, they will at least be on
the edge of maybe a break as far as the future is concerned. He stated they are in a
downtrend right now and may continue in a downtrend for a while, but is sure they will
come out of this. He stated at this point in time he does not think it is bad to spend
$85,000 to try to coincide this area in with the area they already have that he voted to
spend $35 million to build the overpass. He stated Public Works Director Freyermuth
was around when he did that.
Councilmember Sawyer stated it was an $8 million bridge.
PAGE 29 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Councilmember Goode stated it cost the City $35 million to get that shopping center in
Councilmember Straub stated he is a very pro-development person, but personally he
wishes the City would have done this study five or ten years ago when they were doing
well and had the money, before Olathe and Lenexa did theirs. He stated they are late
with this, so delaying it may not be a good idea, but when they do not have the money,
they do not have the money. He stated that Lenexa‟s development is sitting doing
nothing right now. He stated he is not sure if he can support this at this time, but agrees
that the City needs to be proactive.
Councilmember Straub sated he will support his tonight, but they need to move forward
on being proactive, but not spend so much money so he needs to figure out how to do
that. He stated if possible, the owners could look at this because it is going to benefit the
owner‟s property. He asked why they can not be in partnership with them in some way,
at least the ones who own the bigger pieces of property and say the City would like to go
in on this study and work with them, not necessarily getting in on the back end but in on
the front end, because it will be a win/win for them as well, because their property values
will go up. He would like to see that happen to cut back the City‟s liability.
Councilmember Goode stated he is willing to take a chance as far as the future is
concerned. He stated this is $85,000, but if they are going to move and do something he
thinks now is the opportunity to get into that area that is surrounded by the big shopping
centers that they approved. He can not remember show long that shopping center has
City Manager Gonzales stated Wal-Mart came in about 1998 or 1999, so Shawnee
Station came in right around that time.
Councilmember Goode stated it is time for the City to start moving around that and build
around that project, because so far it has been pretty successful when they do go in and
build in the vicinity of that area and that is where this is located.
City Manager Gonzales stated that is correct.
Councilmember Goode stated he knows the people in Ward II want curbs and gutters and
he has told them that the City does not have the money and they are very satisfied with
that answer. He stated that is just the way it is and he is willing to take a chance on this
ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace, stated the City should actually make this
a more casual opportunity so there is a better opportunity to have a give and play.
Mayor Meyers stated most cities do not even allow this casual atmosphere to take place
that they have here in Shawnee.
PAGE 30 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
ROBERT ROWLAND stated he grew up in Columbia, Missouri, so perhaps a college
town made it a little different. He stated his only request about that piece of land, is that
he used to bike out in that area, is please do not ask Merriam developers, staff, or Lenexa,
both of which seem to have in the last year or two developed properties highway bound,
close to residential and other existing businesses who right now can not find tenants in
either one of them.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated he thinks one is on 67th Street and I-35 and the other one
was going to be the Best Buy or Circuit City right behind the Merriam Water Park. He
stated he is not sure if it would be possible to engage the staff who did those development
studies and ask them what should they not have done and then take that as a guess as
what Shawnee might want to do for that area, but it seems that locals areas or cities who
have done developmental studies have not come up very successful in what they have
decided to do when they have been told were good options. He stated it is $80,000 and
they have to spend the money.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated he thinks today‟s Kansas City, Missouri paper it said an
$80 million or $90 million shortfall, but they also had a day or two ago, he believes it was
a religious bookstore, that moved to Independence from Kansas City, left the tax base in
Kansas City and moved to Independence and is now TIF‟d as well, so it is generating
nobody any benefit other than the benefit. He stated when they find places, he hopes they
make sure that the City benefits.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated the overwhelming discussions this evening pretty much
seemed how they best protect their financial interests and bring money into the City. He
stated hopefully that is the goal with all of these different discussions on the various
items on the agenda this evening area; money is tight for all, so let‟s spend it wisely.
Councilmember Goode stated if he understands Mr. Rowland correctly, he is advocating
that the City spend this $85,000.
ROBERT ROWLAND answered yes. He stated he thinks the people who own the land
will very likely see and will pay increased property taxes to folks down the street. He
stated the people up across on the other side of Johnson Drive down to Wal-Mart, even
behind the Home Depot, there is an NTB there where he never thought anyone would be
able to put any development there because he could never have imagined that anyone
would have wanted anything there. He stated he does not know how much that brings
into the City each year, maybe $1,000, $5,000, or $10,000, but certainly offsets the cost
of plowing the snow up in that little 200 yard section. He stated they may find other little
businesses like that that may be an ideal place to put windmill turbines.
Therefore the motion read and a roll call vote was taken:
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Kuhn, moved to authorize the
execution of a consultant contract with Gould Evans-Zimmer of Kansas City, Missouri,
to conduct the I-435 Corridor Land Use Analysis and Market Study. The motion carried
PAGE 31 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
5-3, with Councilmembers Scott, Pflumm, Goode, Kuhn, and Sandifer voting aye and
Councilmembers Sawyer, Straub, and Distler voting nay.
21. CONSIDER PRELIMINARY PLANS FOR THE SILVERHEEL STREET
PROJECT, FROM 66TH STREET TO CLEAR CREEK PARKWAY, P.N. 3325.
Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to approve the
preliminary plans for Silverheel Street, from 66th Street to Clear Creek Parkway, P.N.
3325, and direct staff to proceed with final plans at an estimated total project cost of
$5,200,000 funded through an improvement district by the City-at-large.
JOYCE PETERSON, 6406 Anderson, stated she lives in the Woodland Park subdivision.
She stated this is her first City Council meeting. She stated she met with someone from
the staff last Tuesday after she received a letter on Thursday. She stated she thought
maybe they were going to make a presentation to the City Council about her interests and
what they were asking for today, but it looks like the Council is just voting on something
they have or have not seen. She stated she does not understand what just went on.
City Manager Gonzales explained that the Council has information in their packet related
to the background on the project. She stated it is a memorandum from Senior Project
Engineer Lindstrom which does discuss the Woodland Park neighborhood meeting and
the issues that were raised, as well as the conversations that took place. She stated the
Council has had time to read through that and become familiar with the outcomes from
Mayor Meyers stated this project has been presented to the Council several times and has
been on the Capital Improvement Plan since the year 2000.
JOYCE PETERSON said she was just made aware of it and received a letter in the mail
last Thursday and came to a meeting last Tuesday, so it came down to them very quickly.
She stated she just wanted to make sure what they had tried to ask them to do is being
presented to the Council and that they would not move forward, unless her house where
they went to put the street where the cars come around that she is „up here‟ and those
lights are going to be coming in their windows. She stated they were trying to ask for
some protection because they have lived there for 19 years and did not move into
Shawnee into that area to be on a main street where there is a lot of activity. She stated
they are just trying to protect their homeowner‟s interest.
Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom pointed out on the overhead the location of the
Peterson home. He noted they are the second house on the corner where the City is going
to be tying 64th Street. He stated they had the concern, which he described in his memo,
that they would like some additional screening along Silverheel. He stated the City is not
taking the row of trees that exist there today and are looking for some additional
screenings so that through the winter months, maybe there could be some pine trees or
berming. He stated they were assured that the staff would look at that and it would come
back to the City Council at the final plans.
PAGE 32 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Mayor Meyers stated he felt like from reading the packet that that is a very doable
Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom stated that is part of the staff‟s recommendation to the
JOYCE PETERSON stated that they just wanted to make sure that the street was not
going to be 30 feet from the line, but 30 feet out from the tree line and to have a berm and
some disease resistance fir-type trees on there, because she knows there were some that
were planted elsewhere around Woodland Park that have already died from disease, so
they were looking for a couple things like that. She stated she does not know what else
they can do to be assured.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she is actually one of Ms. Peterson‟s representatives and
actually called and touched base with City Manager Gonzales about this. She explained
that the City is going to give Ms. Peterson a copy of the memo that the Council received
as well, so she can see everything that they read on it. She stated the Council gets a thick
packet on everything before the meetings and get to read through things so they are made
aware of all the things that come out of the conversations. She stated once the Council
has it, they do not necessarily reiterate it in the public meeting because it is already part
of their packet.
Councilmember Kuhn stated in the memo that the Council received regarding this, it
talked about some of the houses and what has been asked for. She stated the staff then
makes a recommendation at the bottom of their memo indicating what they think should
happen and be approved by the Council and what is included. She stated included in that
were some additional things with the road that were protective for those houses right
there, so when the Council got the packet they had already seen that and there are
questions in there about increasing the berm and putting in some different types of trees
and why. She stated when the motion was made to move this item forward, it was under
the pretenses of what they were already assuming to approve.
JOYCE PETERSON asked if the motion included those specifications to approve.
Councilmember Kuhn replied they are not yet to the final plan, but it is to the part where
when it comes forward to the Council with the final plan, the recommendation said that
final plan should include those things as well. She assured Ms. Peterson that she will
receive a copy.
JOYCE PETERSON asked when the Council will vote again and when will she be able
to see the final plans.
Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom replied probably in about another 45 days or around
mid-February, the staff will come back before the Council with the final plans. He stated
PAGE 33 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
that they will probably have another quick neighborhood meeting at that time to get
approval before it comes to the Council.
Councilmember Pflumm asked Ms. Peterson to leave her email address so she can be
notified before the next meeting.
Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom assured the Council that he has all of Ms. Peterson‟s
Therefore the motion read:
Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to approve the
preliminary plans for Silverheel Street, from 66th Street to Clear Creek Parkway, P.N.
3325, and direct staff to proceed with final plans at an estimated total project cost of
$5,200,000 funded through an improvement district by the City-at-large. The motion
22. CONSIDER SUPPLEMENTAL AGREEMENT NO. 1 WITH THE KONRATH
GROUP FOR INSPECTION SERVICES FOR PARK PROJECTS.
Mayor Meyers stated that the contract for inspection services for improvements to four
park projects and the Pleasant View Cemetery was awarded to the Konrath Group on July
14, 2008. The improvements are scheduled to be completed on December 26, 2008, and
additional inspection hours are required.
Councilmember Sawyer asked why they are having extra hours to inspect this. He asked
if this is because none of the parks are finished.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke stated that Sarai has done a satisfactory job out
there, but it has taken extra time on the inspector‟s part in order to get to that point. He
stated they have had to spend more time than usual going over the intent of the
construction drawings with Sarai and he would say the other item is that they have had to
spend more time at the site doing the inspection than what they normally require.
Councilmember Sawyer asked Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke why the City is
paying for this. He stated they all pretty much know that they should have been done
already and they are not, so obviously that is probably not the inspector‟s fault that they
are not done, so he wants to know why. He stated they were hoping that Water Tower
Park was going to be done this fall so it could have been dedicated and it is not. He
stated he is not even sure where they are on Gum Springs, but they are behind on all four
of the projects.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the City is now going to pick up the difference with this
job and he is not sure why that is happening, because it is not the City‟s fault that it is not
done. He stated someone did not do something and he would like, for just once, someone
to tell him what that person is that did not do what they were supposed to do. He stated if
PAGE 34 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
it is the contractor, then says it is the contractor; if it is the inspector or the City‟s fault,
then say so. He stated there were really only three parties involved and someone did not
do what they were supposed to do and the City is now going to spend another $9,000.00.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke stated he would reiterate what he said before in
that Sarai has done a satisfactory job, but when they bid a project they assume the
contractor has certain skills and abilities to understand a set of drawings without an
extensive amount of time from the City‟s inspector to help them understand things.
Councilmember Sawyer asked Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke how he can then
make the statement that Sarai has done a satisfactory job because he did not have the
people to read the plans. He stated that is what the staff needs to say here and is what
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke is saying very nicely, but the fact of the matter is
that the inspector had to take the time to explain the plans to them, if he understood
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke stated that is correct, the City has had to take the
time to explain things to them.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the City is going to have to pay the difference, because
they had to train the contractor. He stated he does not think that the City should be
paying for that. He stated in the business he is in, they would not be paying it. He stated
the contractor bid the job and he needs to do the job. He stated if the contractor does not
have the people to do it, then shame on him, he is going to eat the difference.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she is assuming there was no contractual commitment in
there for Sarai Construction. She asked if they have missed a deadline for when they
were contractually obligated to be done.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke replied the original contract time expired
December 9, 2008. He stated the City did extend the time to December 26, 2008 due to
delays they had with the sanitary sewer construction.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she is not sure Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke will
have this information handy, but it is a constant concern that she sees that keeps coming
from the Council. She stated they are continuously so pennywise and pound smart and
wonders what the original difference is between the high, middle, and low bids were on
this because she knows there have been a number of discussions about this project. She
stated as they continually berate staff up here for not getting more bids and not going out
there and finding someone to come in lower, how much more would they have paid the
guys in the beginning, and this is not to say that Sarai is doing a bad job because she has
to disagree very respectfully with Councilmember Sawyer on this about the City paying
this unless she can figure out something differently, because the only way the City could
get out of doing this was to either not have it inspected or take those nice people to court
and try to have a judge find that he should pay it which they would then pay City
Attorney Rainey the same amount of money and then save staff and litigators time.
PAGE 35 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Councilmember Scott stated the difference is $62,015.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke stated that is correct.
Councilmember Pflumm stated it is now $53,000.
Councilmember Kuhn stated there is usually more than one adjustment to things that
come in. She stated there is usually additional staff time. She stated she is not saying
that this is not one where they should have done things differently, but is just suggesting
that perhaps sometimes they take another look. She stated with the original bid, the next
bidder was $62,000 higher than Sarai.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke stated that is correct.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if this is the only additional charge they have had so far on
this excluding maybe staff time, so is there an estimate of how many hours of additional
staff time was put in.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke replied he does not have an estimate of how many
extra staff time hours were put in, but yes, there were no other hard charges.
Councilmember Pflumm asked Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke if the staff
approached Sarai about paying for those.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke answered no.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he would recommend the staff approach them on it,
because basically really the City of Shawnee is out Senior Project Engineer
Schnettgoecke‟s time to actually help them with the plans and not only that, are out the
time for the inspectors. He stated the inspectors were probably on contractual time with
certain dates they were going to check things.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke stated the City‟s inspection services were based
on 350 hours on the site. He stated the staff said normally they would spend 16 hours a
week, which equated to 350 hours, assuming they had a contractor that was reasonable
and understanding drawings and would not take an excessive amount of inspection and
they have used that up.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he really would recommend going back to Sarai to see if
they can do something like a 50/50 split. He stated he has to go with Councilmember
Sawyer on this one, because they have an inexperienced contractor here and even though
the City saved some dollars, they are part of the reason the City has to now spend more
PAGE 36 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Councilmember Sandifer asked if Sarai was the construction company who came in with
a conflict ahead of time with their bidding and they did not feel they had a fair shake with
some things that happened.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke answered yes.
Councilmember Sandifer stated he would agree with Councilmember Kuhn on some of
this and will go along with what she said about the bidding. He stated he will go along
with Councilmember Pflumm and Councilmember Sawyer on this one and thinks they
should hold this contractor accountable. He stated he remembers when Mr. Sarai came
before the Council and was not very nice and not very happy because he felt he did not
get a fair shake. He stated Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke needs to tell him that
the City does not feel like they got a fair shake.
Councilmember Sandifer asked Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke if they have
already been paid in full.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke answered no – not in full. He stated there is
around $100,000 yet to pay.
Councilmember Scott stated Councilmember Pflumm said they may have been an
inexperienced contractor, but on their initial profile they have been in business for 19
years so she would not consider that inexperienced. She stated they say it will be
completed by December 26th, but looking outside she is assuming that is not correct. She
asked if they are going to need another extension.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke answered yes, they will need another time
extension because it is too cold to finish up the seeding and sodding left to do, along with
Councilmember Kuhn asked if that will result in more construction time.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke replied that is already in that request. He stated
they have some time in there for the spring.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he would agree with Councilmember Pflumm that maybe
the staff should approach them to see if they can help with some of the additional costs.
He stated the other one that everyone will nail him to the cross on is that the City is far
enough in with these completed, but staff can finish up the inspections, at least he would
assume. He stated the City has the engineers and shame on them. He stated the Council
made the decision to go with this contractor and the contractor said they were the ones to
do this project and they have been in business for 19 years so they should have had to
lead them around by the hand.
Councilmember Sawyer stated Water Tower Park should have been done two months
ago, but he knows it is not finished because the contractor did not get everything ordered
PAGE 37 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
in time so consequently it can not be finished up. He stated he does agree with
Councilmember Pflumm that they need to see what they can get from the contractor. He
stated the other part is that it would be nice to have the inspection service, but somewhere
someone has to give the Council something so they can show the public that they are
actually trying to save some money around here instead of falling hand over fist to see
how much they can spend.
Councilmember Goode stated he is not sure how he will vote on this. He stated he knows
in this period of time they are talking about here, there have been lots of weather
problems. He stated he knows a lot of time has been lost because of weather conditions
lately. He stated it might rain for two days and then be clear for two days and come back
rain in the morning and rain in the afternoon. He stated he has watched that cemetery
project real close and they lost lots of time and will take that into consideration before he
pins it all on the contractor.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she will add a note of how she feels about this and the
Council often sits up there and talks about their need to show the public how they are
trying to save money and cut things and the way to do that is to vote NO on whatever
project happens to be on the agenda. She stated she would just suggest that they, as a
Council, think about the number of projects that cross the staff‟s desks that never even
make to the Council agenda because of the cost. She stated the staff makes the decision
long before the Council ever gets it in front of them or out to the public that they do not
have money for, so perhaps they should consider that the number of things that come to
them on agenda, have been through a vetting process and the decision has been made that
it is important enough for the Council to consider and just because they vote YES on
agenda items does not mean that there have not been 20 other items cut from what they
would have wanted to spend long before they ever see it.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he has to reply to that statement because he is not voting
“NO” on this item. He stated they voted as a Council and he believes this passed that
they were going to do this project. He stated it is not done on time and no one on the
Council knew that the contractor did not know how to read the plans so now they had to
train him. He stated they did not take him to raise, but took him on his word that he
could do the job. He stated he could not do the job, at least that is what the staff is telling
them and he believes what Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke is telling them.
City Manager Gonzales stated she believes Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke said
the work has been satisfactory and wants to be clear on that for the record.
Councilmember Sawyer stated it has been satisfactory, but the staff had to train the
contractor how to read the plans.
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff had to provide assistance. She stated that she
thinks they need to be very careful here.
PAGE 38 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Councilmember Sawyer stated the staff had to provide assistance, but he feels the
contractor should have been able to do that or at least that is why he approved the
contractor, because he thought he knew what the contractor was doing. He stated he did
not make the statement that they were going to hire him to do the job and by the way, in
case you don‟t read the plans the City will spend another $9,000. He stated he is not
upset with staff and is only saying that the contractor did not perform.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the staff is going to go ask him and if the Council makes a
motion to ask him to share the costs, he will probably say NO; that is probably going to
be his answer. He stated they need to say the City is not going to spend $9,000 more
dollars to finish things up. He asked what is left to inspect. He stated he would assume
they are not testing concrete strength or asphalt strength, but are just going to do the
punch list; is the sod down, are things painted, and is it ready to go.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke stated that is correct. He stated the staff has yet to
do the final inspection, develop the punch list, and those would be the items left to
Councilmember Sawyer stated he is reluctant to spend that kind of money. He stated he
knows it is unfortunate that the guy could not do it on time and understands that; this
company obviously should be paid if they hire them to do a job, but it has not been
completed on time.
Councilmember Distler stated her only other thought, if she remembers correctly, is the
reference letters the staff had gotten all said the same things, in that this contractor did
good work but did require additional supervision. She stated the owner was the one who
got up before the Council and had his reasons as to why they said those things. She
stated the City of Shawnee now is coming up with the exact same situation that the three
references said, in that there needed to be additional supervision and inspection.
Councilmember Distler stated she would think that the owner should own up to that,
because he had his reasons as to why the references said that, so is he now going to say
that it is just the City‟s problem again and the City has the same problem as everyone else
and it is not his fault.
Councilmember Sandifer stated someone can not always be a victim.
Councilmember Distler asked when this company is going to start taking ownership.
Councilmember Kuhn stated that is her question and what she believes she said in the
very beginning, if they need the inspection services they probably have to have them and
the only way to do so is to ask the nice man to pay the City and if he says no, then they
can use City Attorney Rainey and other litigation services by the City that will cost
money otherwise. She stated that she certainly does not have a problem with the City
going back and saying to him if he would like a good reference on his next job, they
PAGE 39 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
certainly expect him to take this off his bill and it will have a direct correlation to what
reference they give.
Councilmember Goode stated he does not think they can do that.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that is quid pro quo.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks the City is perfectly capable of saying that they
felt comfortable with the final answers with those because that is part of negotiations.
She stated the point to it only being that the Council can sit up there all day long and tell
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke that the Council thinks they should pay the City
money, but the reality of the situation is that Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke can
not make them give the City the money, so it will not do them any good to say that all
day long again and again and again.
Councilmember Kuhn stated the question before them is if they say YES to Konrath or
take Councilmember Sawyer‟s recommendation and not use an outside source to do it
and she is not particularly comfortable with that and thinks with the number of openings
that the City already has and the last minute year-end projects and things moving
forward, she knows for example that with Monticello, where she feels personally pretty
heavy about moving forward and Silverheel and others . . .
Councilmember Sawyer stated that is not going to happen and these parks are going to be
done before that ever starts.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she would suggest they just move forward and call the
question on this particular one and add to that a recommendation that the City requests
reimbursement and authorize staff to negotiate those reimbursements in whatever form
Councilmember Pflumm stated this project is probably not the biggest deal in the world.
He stated it is not like a road project and they are holding up commercial businesses to
the like of that, but the only issue is the inspection services. He stated the big question is
if they have a principal from Sarai Construction present this evening to address this issue.
Senior Project Engineer Schnettgoecke replied that he does not believe there is anyone
present this evening from Sarai Construction.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he will go along with Councilmember Kuhn on this one.
Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to approve
Supplemental Agreement No. 1 with the Konrath Group for $9,185. The motion carried
7-1, with Councilmembers Pflumm, Sawyer, Good, Kuhn, Straub, Sandifer, and Distler
voting aye and Councilmember Scott voting nay.
PAGE 40 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Councilmember Kuhn stated she would like staff to try negotiating with Sarai
Construction for reimbursement of some of these costs.
23. CONSIDER PRELIMINARY PLANS FOR THE 6100 BLOCK OF NOLAND
ROAD AND 6300 BLOCK OF MELROSE LANE STORM DRAINAGE
IMPROVEMENTS, P.N. 3349.
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Straub, moved to approve the
preliminary plans for the 6100 Block of Noland, P.N. 3349 and take no action for
improvements in the area of the 6300 Block of Melrose Lane. The motion carried 8-0.
24. CONSIDERATION OF PRELIMINARY PLANS FOR STORM DRAINAGE
IMPROVEMENTS - NORTHWEST WOODS, P.N. 3351.
Councilmember Sandifer seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to approve the
preliminary plans for storm drainage improvements for Northwest Woods, P.N. 3351.
The motion carried 8-0.
25. CONSIDER CHANGE ORDER NO. 2 AND FINAL FOR THE 2008 CRACK
Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Sandifer, moved to approve Change
Order No. 2 and Final for Missouri Pavement Maintenance, Independence, Missouri, for
the 2008 Crack Seal Contract for the decreased amount of $989.81. The motion carried
26. CONSIDER CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 AND FINAL FOR THE 2008 STREET
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Goode, moved to approve
Change Order No. 1 and Final for McAnany Construction for the 2008 Street Sweeping
Contract for the decreased amount of $1,840. The motion carried 8-0.
27. CONSIDER CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 AND FINAL FOR 2007/2008 TREE
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Straub, moved to approve Change
Order No. 1 and Final for the 2007/2008 Tree Trimming Contract with a net decrease of
$18,625. The motion carried 8-0.
Councilmember Straub said good job on the decrease.
28. CONSIDER CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 AND FINAL FOR THE 2008 CHEMICAL
PAGE 41 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Kuhn, moved to approve Change
Order No. 1 and Final for the 2008 Chemical Application Contract, for a net decrease of
$2,836.43. The motion carried 8-0.
29. CONSIDER CHANGE ORDER NO. 1 AND FINAL FOR THE 2008 MICRO-
SURFACING PILOT PROJECT.
Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to approve Change
Order No. 1 and Final for the 2008 Micro-surfacing Pilot Project in the amount of a net
decrease of $2,532.32. The motion carried 8-0.
Councilmember Goode stated he will commend City Manager Gonzales for items 25
through 29 along with her staff for doing such an outstanding job in reducing every one
of these items. He stated it certainly took some doing to get every one of these reduced
and he is proud of all of them for their work.
Councilmember Sawyer stated it is great that these were reduced, but wonders how many
had a reduced scope of work to make them that way.
Public Works Director Freyermuth explained that all of these contracts were annual
maintenance contracts that were unit costs.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if crack and seal was not a reduced scope of work.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated fewer quantities were used and is the reason
they came in less.
30. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF SEMI-MONTHLY CLAIM FOR DECEMBER 22,
2008, IN THE AMOUNT OF $2,018,785.90.
Councilmember Scott, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to approve the
semi-monthly claim for December 22, 2008 in the amount of $2,018,785.90. The motion
31. MISCELLANEOUS COUNCIL ITEMS.
a) Shawnee Mission School District High Reading Ratings
Councilmember Pflumm stated he would like to commend the Shawnee Mission
School District, staff, and students on a job well done. He stated the School
District had six schools that earned a standard of excellence and designations in
all four subject areas of reading and six of those schools were in the Shawnee
PAGE 42 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
Mission School District. He stated two of those schools are the Trailridge Middle
School and Benninghoven Elementary School.
b) Wyandotte County – No Smoking Ordinance
Councilmember Pflumm stated he believes Wyandotte County passed a No
c) Tax Abatement Benefits
Councilmember Sawyer stated the City has given tax abatements for several years
now and the City are in some money difficulties right now. He asked if someone
could somehow get together a report and explain to him how much these tax
abatements, and some have had to come off in the last couple of years, to show
him that it has been a great deal for the City. He stated he is not sure they are
quite the great deal that everyone says they are because of some of the streets the
City has to maintain in some of these places and they do not have the money to
Councilmember Sawyer stated someone else laid that out there that he needs to
think long term, so he wants to know some of the long term benefits.
Councilmember Goode stated so far up until now it has been great.
Mayor Meyers stated he thinks Roadway is paying tremendous amounts of money
compared to others.
Councilmember Sandifer, seconded by Councilmember Scott, moved to adjourn. The motion
carried 8-0, and the meeting adjourned at 9:52 p.m.
Minutes prepared by: Cindy Terrell, Recording Secretary
Vicki Charlesworth, City Clerk
PAGE 43 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008
PAGE 44 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES DECEMBER 22, 2008