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					                                         FINAL 10/14/10
                                 TOWN OF NEW SCOTLAND
                            SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
                                               9/22/10
       The following Town Officials were in attendance:

              Supervisor:                            Thomas Dolin
              Councilperson:                         Douglas LaGrange
                                                     Deborah Baron
                                                     Daniel Mackay
                Highway Superintendent:              Darrell Duncan
                Town Attorney:                       L. Michael Mackey
                Town Clerk:                          Diane Deschenes
  Late arrival: Councilperson:                       Richard Reilly

1.     Call to Order
       Supervisor Dolin called the meeting to order 6:31 P.M.

2.     Pledge of Allegiance

3.     Invitation to the General Public to Comment on Agenda Items
       Edith Abrams
       Mrs. Abrams asked how the salary schedule is going. Councilperson LaGrange said the Board
       had a good discussion a couple of weeks ago in executive session. There were some things
       brought up that needed to be worked on. Councilperson LaGrange did that and passed out an
       updated copy of the salary schedule to the Board. The Board will have another executive session
       to discuss individuals and their job. Councilperson LaGrange hoped to have something more
       concrete after tonight to incorporate into the budget and for the employees to see. Mrs. Abrams
       asked if Councilperson LaGrange is developing a salary schedule based on the descriptions of
       the job perspective of the performances. Councilperson LaGrange said the point is to divorce
       our thinking from the individuals. What we have to do as a Board to be fair to the employees is
       identify the positions we have and come to the conclusion as to what we want to pay those
       positions and how we want to pay them. We have to determine the high salary, the starting
       salary, and all the nuances that go into it. Then you throw in longevity and some of the other
       issue we have to clean up a little bit. We can’t focus on the faces we have to focus on the job.
       Councilperson LaGrange did some research and found it pretty enlightening, adding that we do
       well by our employees. It’s rare that we’re paying less than at least the average of other towns.
       Councilperson LaGrange hoped to clean up a little bit more tonight and be ready to run with this.
       Mrs. Abrams asked if the employees would have a chance to see this before you discuss the
       budget and individual salaries. Supervisor Dolin said because his budget is due so quickly it will
       be an estimate. During the budget workshops we will involve the interested parties. Supervisor
       Dolin added that Highway Superintendent Duncan is here tonight and he’ll be involved in the
       next step. Supervisor Dolin asked who Councilperson LaGrange and Councilperson Baron met
       with. Councilperson Baron said they just left it open but Kevin Schenmeyer, Mike Kawczak, Joe
       Klink, and Pat Geurtze asked to come. Supervisor Dolin said he does want to meet with the
       Highway workers again and if they’re unhappy he wants to know why. There’s only so much we
       can do. In the end, they may still be unhappy but at least they’ll have a voice. Councilperson
       LaGrange felt that most of unhappiness is that there hasn’t been a clear guideline written down.
       We’ve always tried to do our best at budget time but we have no awareness of how we compared
       to other town’s our size. Councilperson LaGrange added by asking the employees to give us their
       perception of their job description was enlightening. Councilperson LaGrange said there are a
       lot of things like that which has been kind of an unknown. The department heads would come in
       and do their best to put up a case for raises and then the Board would decide. Councilperson
       LaGrange added that he did that with a lot less knowledge than he has today. Councilperson
       LaGrange thought he was fairly well versed in what was going on in different jobs. He’s learned
       a lot and felt it would be very helpful. One of the big concerns was not having structure. There
       are other issues like longevity. In a lot of people’s opinion we started it a little early and didn’t
       give it on the other end as well as we should. That’s what we’re trying to do tonight. Mrs.
       Abrams said the employees have been waiting for this for a long time and it’s nice to know that
       this new majority has finally put this together.

4.     Resolution amending Resolution 09-212 regarding funding for work on the proposed New
       Salem Water District capital Project.
       Supervisor Dolin said we’ve moved up that ladder and it appears we may be eligible for low
       interest loans and possibly some grants. The Board is agreeable to having our engineers pursue


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                                     FINAL 10/14/10
                            TOWN OF NEW SCOTLAND
                       SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
                                        9/22/10
the next step in our grant application. This will require a resolution raising the cap on the
previous resolution, which authorizes the town wide fund to loan money to the proposed New
Salem Water District capital project.

RESOLUTION 10-260
Supervisor Dolin offered the following resolution and moved its adoption:

   Whereas, the Town of New Scotland has established a capital project for the purpose of
constructing a New Salem Water District and,

    Whereas, the New Salem Water District has not yet been formed for the purpose of raising
rents for the payments that will come due during the process of formation and construction, and

    Whereas, the Town has revised an estimated budget for the engineering phase and,

    Whereas, the funds necessary to pay vendors are not available from the sponsor fund or the
capital project,

   Whereas, the project continues to require the Town to incur costs in advance of securing
funding of the project,

    Now therefore be it Resolved, that the Town Supervisor is authorized to loan from the
General Town-Wide Fund (A) to the New Salem Water District Capital Project Fund (HNS) the
funds when necessary up to $61,000.00, with an initial interest rate of .5% per annum, said rate
to be adjusted from time to time to reflect market conditions; and it is further

   Resolved that this resolution is subject to a permissive referendum pursuant to Town Law
Section 191-a and shall not be effective until the expiration of 30 days from adoption or, in the
event of the filing of a valid petition for a referendum thereon, until approval at such referendum;
and it is further

Resolved that the Town Clerk post and publish a copy of this resolution pursuant to Town Law
Section 90.

Councilperson LaGrange seconded the motion. Present and voting, the motion carried (4 Ayes).

Councilperson Mackay said it would be helpful to have a revised map. Councilperson LaGrange
said there was a water committee meeting on Monday with some good discussion. There were a
number of people here from the New Salem area. Councilperson LaGrange advised that
Engineer Menia is still developing what he calls his core project. That has to encompass all of
the things that got us to this point to get the grant money. What we can do above and beyond
that is what he’s looking into. Referring to a map, Councilperson LaGrange said at this point it
would include the green shaded area, the Felter Spring, the pink area, and then the blue area at
least down to the pump station, that’s there now. He’s gotten as far over as the turn in the lower
part. There were several people from New Salem South Road who were interested. They run in
to sulfur and things like that rather than quantity. Their issue is quality. In other areas it’s more
of a quantity problem. Engineer Menia is trying to prepare the core project that incorporates all
those things that got us the potential funding and then see what else we can do with what funding
we may get. He hopes to present that project on 9/29/10 so the Board can decide if that’s what
they want him to take to Bethlehem. Councilperson LaGrange asked what Councilperson
Mackay meant by an updated map. Councilperson Mackay said you’ve just given us a narrative
update and he can wait for the final material. This encapsulates the maximum boundaries of the
project but not the specific components of the project. Councilperson LaGrange said the yellow
lines were the Cadillac version. We’re looking to do as much as we can with the money that is
potentially available. Attorney Mackey said he met with Engineer Menia today. The green area
has six properties that are on the spring water. In their agreement with Bethlehem, which
nobody knows for sure where it comes from, they pay nothing for their water in terms of tax or
usage. It has something to do with an easement. Attorney Mackey said those people may be
reluctant about joining a district that’s going to have a tax and a water fee. Engineer Menia said
that the project isn’t really doable without them because the points that we get include taking
care of that issue. Attorney Mackey added that we are exploring some potential options for


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     addressing that. Bethlehem puts a lot of money and effort into providing those people with
     water. There may be a situation where there’s a value to Bethlehem to get rid of them and
     maybe some payment from Bethlehem could defray giving them a better deal than the other
     people in the district. Councilperson Baron asked if it’s something that perpetuated no matter if
     the landowner changes. Attorney Mackey believed so but in any event they’ve always had it for
     free. Councilperson LaGrange said there are other aspects to the use of that spring that come into
     play that could be considered troubling. Supervisor Dolin asked that we discuss this more next
     week.

       Cell Tower
     Supervisor Dolin said that the company who developed and owns the cell tower site across the
     street has been talking to him. It originated because Supervisor Dolin was concerned about the
     lack of cell service in Clarksville. We’ve been talking about a possible site on the land fill on
     Upper Flat Rock Road. The representative for the company gave Attorney Mackey a proposed
     revised agreement. It’s been refined and it’s getting close to the point where Supervisor Dolin
     will bring it to Board to see if the concept is alright. If so, then we need to have some interaction
     with the people in Clarksville to see if they want a cell tower if the site is desirable. The
     company proposing to do this doesn’t want to spend a lot of time and money if the public or the
     Board doesn’t want it. Supervisor Dolin said part of the process would involve a cell tower
     lawyer. Attorney Mackey emailed the agreement to the Board today along with others looking
     for input. Supervisor Dolin asked if it’s important to get Attorney Barber on Board now.
     Attorney Mackey said Attorney Barber hasn’t been appointed and he really doesn’t want to
     review the document unless he has been. Supervisor Dolin asked Attorney Mackey to get a
     proposal from him to help with this stage of it. Supervisor Dolin advised that the Town would
     actually own the site and the tower and the company would run it. There are pros and cons but
     it’s different than across the street. This would be a site management agreement. Attorney
     Mackey said they’ve been doing that in other places and it’s partly because towns are not subject
     to their own zoning. Attorney Mackey said if a town owns it and develops it, you wouldn’t
     necessarily have to go to the Planning and Zoning Board but in talking to Supervisor Dolin he
     wants that to be a requirement. That’s been communicated to them so they understand in all
     likelihood it’s going to still require a full review. The general concept here is they would build
     it, the town would own it, they would manage it and the proceeds would be split.

     Saul Abrams
     Mr. Abrams asked who’s responsible for decommissioning cost.

     Attorney Mackey said they would be. Supervisor Dolin said the current cell tower has a $10,000
     escrow requirement to take it down in the end. Mr. Abrams said not if we own it. Attorney
     Mackey said the agreement provides for all those types of cost. The only expense that he saw
     that the town would incur is the cost of insurance. Supervisor Dolin said we’re going to explore
     it. This was purely informational for now. Supervisor Dolin asked Attorney Mackey to bring
     something back for next’s weeks meeting.

5.   Discussion regarding specific individuals and job performances
     Supervisor Dolin didn’t want to violate the opening meeting law if we’re talking in generality
     about positions and not people. He wanted to talk about concepts and the civil service people at
     the Highway and get the benefit of Highway Superintendents Duncan’s 16 years of experience.
     Supervisor Dolin didn’t want to go in executive session unless we’re going to talk about
     individual people. Attorney Mackey said generally speaking any kind of matters having to do
     with employees where you’re discussing performance and that employee’s salary is the type of
     thing that would be classily executive session. If you’re going to talk about positions you
     probably wouldn’t have to go into executive session. The issue that Attorney Mackey has seen
     in these types of discussions is generally that spills into it and then you’ve got confidential
     material that shouldn’t be discussed in public. Councilperson LaGrange said that was his
     concern because of the size of our town. Supervisor Dolin said this chart is a concept and it
     doesn’t have any names on it. It’s almost like a budgetary thing. Supervisor Dolin said if we’re
     going to talk about the chart he would like to start out in open session. If we want to move on to
     who fits where in the chart than maybe we should go into executive. Supervisor Dolin added
     that the individual salaries are public knowledge. Attorney Mackey said if this is a negotiating
     strategy it can be done in executive. Councilperson Baron suggested an executive session first to
     get a few issues out of the way and then just talk about it as a chart. Councilperson Baron said


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                        SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
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she worries that as Attorney Mackey said, you can name a position and because we’re so small
you’d know who we mean.

Saul Abrams
Mr. Abrams said the evaluations are executive session. The people, the positions, and how much
they actually get paid is public information. The last comment that Councilperson Baron made is
not really a concern. If we get into individuals and how much they get paid that’s public
knowledge. Attorney Mackey said in the history of how this has been done there’s been
significant discussion of personnel evaluations. Mr. Abrams said that’s absolute executive
session. In terms of position and salary that’s public. Once you get into the quality of
someone’s work that’s executive session. Attorney Mackey said you do get into situations where
you’ve got employees who are requesting increasing and you’re developing a negotiating
strategy perhaps with the employee that’s classically executive session too. Attorney Mackey
added that’s really what a lot of this about. Supervisor Dolin said it’s up to the Board.

Edith Abrams
Mrs. Abrams said the reason she had a discussion with Councilperson LaGrange before is
because she’s doesn’t think one ought to take a specific person and evaluate that how that person
is doing and then base the job description and salary on the personality. It should be done in
theory. The other way is backwards.

Supervisor Dolin said Highway Superintendent Duncan obviously has a plan. He doesn’t do
that. All Operators I’s are paid roughly the same. Highway Superintendent Duncan said they all
start the same and they get an increase at 3 and 5 years. The reason it’s tough is because a
person who’s been here 3 or 5 years basically become the same salary level because they
basically do the same job. The differential is the longevity and extra vacation time. Supervisor
Dolin said we’ve all seen this chart for the first time tonight. The first column makes distinctions
between Operator I and Operator II. Highway Superintendent Duncan agreed adding there are
also Forman’s and Sub Forman’s. The only Laborer’s are in the park. Supervisor Dolin asked
how many Equipment Operators are there. Councilperson Baron expressed concern about
sharing the chart with the public since the employee’s haven’t seen it. Councilperson Baron
added that they didn’t know to be here because they assumed it was going to be an executive
session. Supervisor Dolin said he just got it a half an hour ago. Councilperson Baron questioned
sharing it with the public. Councilperson Mackay understood the dynamic but at the same time
believed this document is generic enough. Councilperson Baron was concerned about the
proposals, which is still the working part of the document. Supervisor Dolin agreed adding if
this is a conceptual thing, it’s not executive session. Councilperson Baron said maybe she
misunderstood. She though when the Board had the executive session some of what you said
you we’re basing some of this information on some of the things that would be coming out in the
next budget. Supervisor Dolin said that Councilperson LaGrange prepared the 3 Level Pay
Grade Scale. Supervisor Dolin asked Councilperson LaGrange how he came about it.
Councilperson LaGrange said he had a rough 5 year grade scale at the last meeting. That was a
mistake to have 5 years. Years aren’t how you should be promoting somebody that goes with
longevity. Councilperson LaGrange felt that levels would be more appropriate. There seemed to
be a consensus that three levels would be more appropriate. Generally speaking most of our jobs
are defined in what they encompass. You hire somebody to fill those in what level of expertise
they bring. Councilperson LaGrange felt that the third level is what we cap a particular job at.
This chart was based on what other towns of like size do, what we already do, and a feel for what
he saw in the private sector. Councilperson LaGrange said this was the second level of starting
to address these things. Councilperson LaGrange already has some changes he’d make to this.
Councilperson Baron did too. Councilperson LaGrange said that was the point of more
discussion amongst the Board members. Supervisor Dolin wanted to take advantage of having
Highway Superintendent Duncan here tonight. He has the same problem we do. The employees
are unhappy. Councilperson LaGrange interrupted advising anyone with a copy that it’s not a 3
year pay scale, it’s a 3 Level Pay Grade Scale. Supervisor Dolin thought that Highway
Superintendent Duncan used a five year scale.

Saul Abrams
Mr. Abrams said the obvious question is what criteria you use to move from one level to the
next. Councilperson LaGrange said proficiency probably but that’s going to be discussed. Mr.
Abrams said that needs to be institutionalized as well.


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Supervisor Dolin referred to Equipment Operator I. Highway Superintendent Duncan said there
are five. Supervisor Dolin asked if they all make $19.54 per hour. Highway Superintendent
Duncan said they’re not. Councilperson LaGrange said that’s an average of the salary at this
point. Supervisor Dolin asked the range that we paid them. Highway Superintendent Duncan
said $17 to start and it goes up to the highest salary but he didn’t have that with him. Highway
Superintendent Duncan offered to get that information. Supervisor Dolin said it wasn’t
necessary, adding that this is what the Highway workers want to know. Councilperson Baron
understood Supervisor Dolin’s concern, adding that it’s not just the Highway workers. There’s
uncertainty even in the clerical people. Supervisor Dolin said he’s trying to address one area
right now. Councilperson LaGrange said Highway Superintendent Duncan has a level they cap
out at in a particular job before longevity and COLA. Councilperson LaGrange asked if his
numbers were close, adding that you said you start them at $17 and he hit that right. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said that’s because we just hired someone at that rate. Councilperson
LaGrange didn’t know that. Highway Superintendent Duncan said the reason for that rate is
because these individuals have a CDL license before they come in the door. That’s why it starts
at that. Councilperson LaGrange said compared to other town’s its fare. Councilperson
LaGrange asked if there’s a cap somewhere in the neighborhood of $20 before longevity.
Highway Superintendent Duncan said he didn’t have the information in front of him, adding that
he doesn’t cap it. It’s basically what it’s been at. If he took an employee who’s been here a
month or two verse someone who’s been here twenty years, that’s what the salaries are.
Supervisor Dolin said in fairness to Highway Superintendent Duncan maybe we should do this
next week. Highway Superintendent Duncan offered to go get his paperwork. Town Clerk
Deschenes added if the Board’s going to do it in public the Board may want to wait until next
week because she’s sure employees would have been here. Supervisor Dolin said that’s a good
point. Councilperson Mackay said he didn’t think we’re allowed to put on the agenda that we
have a planned executive session. Town Clerk Deschenes said everyone thought that was the
intent including some Board members. Councilperson Baron thought you could put it on the
agenda. Town Clerk Deschenes said you can say it’s anticipated. Councilperson Baron added
that last time they came and then we had an executive session. Supervisor Dolin said he’s
pursing his own agenda. He’s trying to guess what the employees at the Highway Department’s
concerns were about salaries. His impression is that they would like an explanation of how you
start and finish. Councilperson LaGrange said that was one of the things. Councilperson Baron
said it did mushroom. They mentioned that they’d like the town to consider reimbursing them
for their licenses. They also mentioned longevity and compensation time. Supervisor Dolin
wanted to concentrate on their hourly wages. Supervisor Dolin said if there’s a concept or policy
that’s been followed he would like to know. Highway Superintendent Duncan said the problem
is there is no main concept or policy. Basically, we take the salary of what the highest employee
makes at that position. We’ve actually hired mechanics at the rate that somebody’s left at
because of their experience or knowledge. Supervisor Dolin understood that. Councilperson
LaGrange added which is the point of having levels. If somebody is equally experienced, you of
course start them at the hirer level. Councilperson LaGrange asked Highway Superintendent
Duncan what the high side would be for Operator I. Highway Superintendent Duncan said
$19.54. Councilperson LaGrange said he’s in the ballpark with $17-$20. Councilperson
LaGrange asked if they get longevity in a lump sum. Supervisor Dolin didn’t want to get into
that. Councilperson LaGrange said that’s part of it because he wants it known that the $19.54
does not include longevity. Councilperson Baron said the goal is to include longevity into the
hourly rate. Highway Superintendent Duncan has the Town of Bethlehem’s policy some place
which shows what they do. Councilperson LaGrange said if longevity is incorporated into the
salaries, the employees won’t take a hit on taxes as bad plus it’s what the employees seem to
prefer. Supervisor Dolin said if you’re bringing in a new employee and you have one going out
with the same experience it’s not the same rate because of longevity. Supervisor Dolin said to
keep apples to apples you have to talk about an hourly rate and then add longevity. Supervisor
Dolin asked how many are Equipment Operator II. Highway Superintendent Duncan said five.
Councilperson LaGrange asked how many have Class A licenses. Highway Superintendent
Duncan said one and one of the Operator I’s has a Class A. Supervisor Dolin asked what
Highway Superintendent Duncan thought the range would be there. Highway Superintendent
Duncan said it’s between $20.14- $21.06. Councilperson LaGrange said again we’re in the ball
park. Supervisor Dolin asked if we would actually ever hire anyone for less than $20. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said we actually hire people as Operator I. Next year we have two
Operator II’s that may be retiring. The Operator I’s are vying for that position. Councilperson


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                                      FINAL 10/14/10
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LaGrange said then you’d probably bump them up. If they’re already at the higher level of
Operator I, you’d probably bump them up that extra dollar. Highway Superintendent Duncan
added or do a two-year jump. Highway Superintendent Duncan said it’s been all on him and his
recommendation to the Board, and if they like it. Highway Superintendent Duncan said he’s the
in between guy. Councilperson LaGrange said that was a consideration too. We’ve been talking
about it and this would take a lot of hassle off of each department head. Attorney Mackey asked
if all Operator II’s should be above the Operator I’s. Highway Superintendent Duncan said he
thinks they are now. Attorney Mackey said this scale drops it back down. Councilperson
LaGrange said that’s the difference of experience. Councilperson LaGrange said if you didn’t
have guys vying for the position, and you were hiring somebody for Operator II outside, you
might start them a little lower. Highway Superintendent Duncan said there’s no reason you can’t
go below the starting level. Councilperson LaGrange said this is just giving a parameter, adding
that we’re close in both these situations. Councilperson LaGrange than asked if we do anything
at all to compensate people for having that hirer level, Class A license. Highway Superintendent
Duncan said no, we don’t use it that much. Councilperson LaGrange asked if it’s a benefit to the
town. Highway Superintendent Duncan said it probably is adding that if you ask the employees
it’s a benefit to the town that they all have a CDL. Councilperson LaGrange said that’s what
we’re hiring them for. Highway Superintendent Duncan agreed but that was brought up at the
meeting at the garage. Councilperson LaGrange said that’s why we pay $1.15 more than the
average of like size communities. Councilperson Baron asked if we would hire someone without
a CDL. Highway Superintendent Duncan said we have at less money, giving them six months
for a permit and then six months to get the license. At that point we could terminate if we want.
Councilperson LaGrange added that it’s part of the job description to have the license. It’s not
necessarily part of the job description to have the Class A but it is beneficial for the town to have
someone with it. Councilperson LaGrange said the CDL is part of the job. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said it keeps the playing field level because of the drug and alcohol
testing. Councilperson LaGrange said with a Level A license it is beneficial. For the higher cost
of the license and going though the process of getting it other towns are compensating for it.
Councilperson LaGrange asked if Highway Superintendent Duncan would be against that.
Highway Superintendent Duncan said other towns compensate because they have Transfer
Stations where they haul tractor trailers. We don’t haul tractor trailers. Highway Superintendent
Duncan is not against it but wanted to explain we don’t. Councilperson LaGrange said it’s
something to think about. Supervisor Dolin asked Highway Superintendent Duncan if the
concept on the right hand side fits the parameters that he’s using. Councilperson LaGrange said
so far it did for two. Councilperson LaGrange then referred to the Equipment Operator II
Mechanic. Highway Superintendent Duncan said that’s the Mechanic but he’s an Operator II
because he operators everything. Councilperson LaGrange asked if the currently salary is
$20.64. Councilperson LaGrange figures that position would increase as he becomes more
proficient. Councilperson LaGrange asked if he’s out of range with a high cap of $22. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said the range could be used. Highway Forman was discussed next.
Highway Superintendent Duncan said there is one individual in that position. Supervisor Dolin
asked how that salary looks. Highway Superintendent Duncan said it currently pays $22.03.
Highway Superintendent Duncan added that the individual also carries a CDL as well as himself.
Supervisor Dolin then asked about the Labor Sub-Forman range of $14-$19. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said we don’t have a Labor Sub-Forman. Highway Superintendent
Duncan said that’s the Park and its one position and the other is the Laborer. Highway
Superintendent Duncan added that’s the position he put in to raise by $1 this year. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said this is what makes it difficult at budget workshops. It’s when things
are spilled out by the Supervisor or the Supervisor’s budget and when the word COLA is thrown
out at a meeting and then the media picks up on it. It goes in the paper and then at the workshop
someone asked for $1 extra for an employee and pleads the case. Highway Superintendent
Duncan added sometimes the Board says no because we can’t afford it and he just tries again the
next year. Councilperson LaGrange said the key word is afford, we have to determine what we
can afford. When a person has gotten to a point where he’s making a certain level, and the
department head suggests he’s bumped up within that range, our hands are necessarily tied but
now we see we should do that. Highway Superintendent Duncan said at the same token if you
bump one, another department head request a raise for their individual because we’ve started
down this snowball, and then another department head does the same. Councilperson LaGrange
says this shows them that they’re already capped out and someone else isn’t. Councilperson
LaGrange added if they’re capped out the only opportunity is longevity and COLA. That’s the
whole point of this. It takes the oneness off of all of us. Highway Superintendent Duncan said


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that oneness is there whether it you or him. Councilperson LaGrange said this just shows what
has been asked for, which is a foundation. Highway Superintendent Duncan said he would get
Bethlehem’s schedule to the Board so they have it. Councilperson Baron said they have more
than three steps. Councilperson LaGrange asked how long it takes for someone to get proficient
in a job. Councilperson Baron said Bethlehem scale is broken out by grade, hourly rate,
longevity, and education. Supervisor Dolin said he’s talking about laborers. Councilperson
Baron said they offer it even if you’re a laborer. Highway Superintendent Duncan said they have
60 employees. They don’t all need a CDL. The disgruntle employees down there are because
some have to be drug tested and some don’t. Highway Superintendent Duncan said by law a
CDL card holder has to be drug and alcohol tested but by law. A Laborer doesn’t have to be
tested. Supervisor Dolin asked if Bethlehem has a union. Highway Superintendent Duncan said
they don’t. Supervisor Dolin said this unhappiness with the Highway guys is because they see
the clerical or non highway people getting individual treatment. Highway Superintendent
Duncan agreed. Supervisor Dolin said they’re thinking that they don’t have the same
opportunity to come to the Board. Highway Superintendent Duncan didn’t think they have that
problem adding that some don’t want to bother coming to a meeting because they don’t get paid
for it. Another concept is they think nothing will happen by coming to a meeting. Supervisor
Dolin said from the Board’s point of view Highway Superintendent Duncan is management so
they rely on him and his recommendations. Supervisor Dolin thought the employees don’t like
that. Supervisor Dolin asked what the issue is. Is it just an issue of hours and pay not the
fringes. Councilperson LaGrange didn’t think he heard a complaint about hours and pay.
Councilperson Baron felt in previous years after a budget process, and only from reading it in the
paper, that it felt like some of the clerical people at town hall got bigger percentage bump ups
and they felt like the orphan child. Councilperson Baron added that Highway Superintendent
Duncan has been kind of doing that step thing for several years but that has not taken place at
Town Hall. People have jumped big jumps in short periods of time. Town Clerk Deschenes say
when you say that she would be interested to go back and see who got those big jumps because
there are a couple of people with several years who have only gotten two raises other than
COLA. Councilperson Baron said she knows who they’re talking about but wouldn’t say names
in an open meeting. Councilperson Baron said those raises get in the paper and then Highway
guys think whose sticking up for me. Councilperson LaGrange said having a base and a cap
alleviates that stuff. People might still complain but the fact is here’s what we capped and what
the Town of New Scotland can afford. If some clerk comes in at $15 with basic skills and
improves themselves immeasurably they might skip to the third level in a year. If they can
complete what the job requires that’s what we’re looking for. Councilperson LaGrange felt that
the third level is proficiency at the job for which you were hired. If somebody jumps and
everyone else gets COLA, that’s because everyone else is at the top of the scale. Supervisor
Dolin added or progressing through the scale. Supervisor Dolin asked Highway Superintendent
Duncan what would be the employee’s response to this tiered approach.                    Highway
Superintendent Duncan said it saves all management because you can give it to a new employee
and they know what they’re subject to. The problem is it doesn’t apply only to the Highway.
Councilperson LaGrange said that’s what we’re working on here. Highway Superintendent
Duncan said that’s where the problem is. Councilperson LaGrange said that’s been the problem
with the employees when Supervisor Dolin asked what the complaints are. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said the complaints are we have 20, 25 and 30 year employees that have
sat there for 30 years and there still only at $19.54 but yet there are employees who have been
here, relinquished their job and came back for a substantial amount of money. Councilperson
LaGrange said if we had this pay scale it would have showed that was appropriate. Highway
Superintendent Duncan says he agrees but disagrees. He’s not picking on the Supervisor, but if
the Supervisor leaves today and a new Supervisor brings in his new employee he’s going to fight
for his employee. He won’t care about this and he might give them part of his salary. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said that’s a Board judgment. Councilperson LaGrange said it will have
to be out of his or her pocket because we’re working on a defined scale. Councilperson
LaGrange asked about longevity right now. Councilperson Baron said they get it on their
anniversary date. Councilperson LaGrange said that person whose making $19.54 is getting
longevity. Highway Superintendent Duncan said he make $750 on his anniversary date if his
been 20 years plus he’ll gain a number of days. Highway Superintendent Duncan said at one
point it was just cash. Supervisor Dolin told the Board he did not want to talk about longevity.
Councilperson LaGrange said it’s going to be an hourly rate and that’s his point for talking about
it now. Town Clerk Deschenes asked how the salary chart changes in regard to COLA,
specifically would it be updated yearly. Councilperson LaGrange said a least level 3 would be


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updated. Supervisor Dolin wanted to get back to the unhappiness. Highway Superintendent
Duncan said no matter what we do there may still be unhappiness. Supervisor Dolin said he
understands that. Town Clerk Deschenes said going back to the question about unhappiness,
one of the objections is that there is no time clock at Town Hall but the Highway has to punch in.
Town Clerk Deschenes felt that was a big issue for them. Supervisor Dolin said we can talk
about that too. It’s a good point, but he wanted to finish on the hourly salary. Supervisor Dolin
said there are people at Town Hall that are not civil service, they’re appointed. If they’re treated
differently, there are reasons in his opinion. That may not satisfy them. Highway
Superintendent Duncan thought he pointed that out and you are right, definitely not. Supervisor
Dolin didn’t understand why the employee with 30 years was upset.

Councilperson Reilly arrived at 7:40 P.M.

Highway Superintendent Duncan said it’s tough with 15 employees to say lets give them a $5
raise. Supervisor Dolin understood that. Councilperson Baron said whatever we do for the
Highway is magnified as opposed to one person here. Councilperson Baron said there is a
reason they’re the biggest department. They do the bulk of the work, work that very few people
here would want to do. Councilperson Baron didn’t know if that’s a reason not to consider raises
for the highway because there’s so many of them. Supervisor Dolin said that’s not want he said.
Highway Superintendent Duncan said what he’s getting at is if you come from a workforce
where you don’t have any holiday pay it’s kind of neat getting all this time. Highway
Superintendent Duncan added that we’ve given them a benefit as far as work boots each year.
They have to be on call in the winter and that’s disappointing when some people don’t have to be
but they can get overtime pay when others can’t. There are twelve holidays that they get. As a
Board you have to weigh those things out. Councilperson Baron said there are very few people
that wouldn’t be able to get overtime. Supervisor Dolin said they’d have to work the 40 hours
first. Supervisor Dolin referred to the chart and asked if Highway Superintendent Duncan
needed time to think about these levels for Highway. Highway Superintendent Duncan said he
doesn’t need time, it’s a Board decision. If you want input you can put it out to see what the
guys say. He felt they would like to see a sheet that also coincides with this building. Highway
Superintendent Duncan added that way they could see that a clerk could make $15-$22.
Supervisor Dolin said we’re not done. Councilperson LaGrange said that’s his point. If you go
back to their unhappiness that was number one on their list, a framework for everyone with a
start and finish. Highway Superintendent Duncan said his point is if you’re just doing the
Highway then there would still be disgruntle employees. Supervisor Dolin said he wanted to
know what Highway Superintendent Duncan thought about these numbers. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said it’s in line with what we’re doing. Councilperson LaGrange said
but it’s not on paper and that’s the point. This takes the oneness off of you. Supervisor Dolin
said the employees could come to a workshop and say they don’t like these ranges but now they
have something to look at. Councilperson Reilly asked if these are the numbers for next year
before COLA. Councilperson LaGrange said this will be a working scale. If we have a COLA
we’ll have a new scale next time. These are just the boundaries of how they are today.
Supervisor Dolin asked Highway Superintendent Duncan about his promotional scheme.
Highway Superintendent Duncan said he just keeps an eye on the years that they’ve been
employed and how they develop. Supervisor Dolin asked if it’s three years. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said three and five. Highway Superintendent Duncan said they try to get
them from year one to the fifth year to be close to the highest paid. The reason for it is their
ability to do it and they’re basically performing the same jobs. Councilperson Reilly said this
chart appears to cut it down to three. Councilperson LaGrange said these are not years they’re
levels. The Board discussed how long it would take to get to different levels. Councilperson
LaGrange believed an Operator I should reach a level of proficiency of every body else by close
to that. Highway Superintendent Duncan said we have an Operator I that has 30 years or more
and he could retire today and he chooses to remain an Operator I. Councilperson LaGrange said
an Operator I that you hired three years ago could be just as good as him today too. Highway
Superintendent Duncan agreed and he could be an Operator II because he knows there are two
going out. Councilperson LaGrange said that’s why he’s staying away from years, just levels.
Councilperson Baron said her point is the level is not automatic. Councilperson LaGrange
agreed saying it gives us a parameter. Councilperson LaGrange added we have the low and the
cap. Highway Superintendent Duncan said then an individual is in a category so how can they
gripe. Councilperson Mackay thought the place one could most sincerely gripe are the criteria
for the evaluation and the performance measurement, which has to be clearly defined.


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Councilperson Mackay said this creates an evaluation process. There is an administrative
backend to this where each department needs to make a case and that case needs to be
substantiated.

Edith Abrams
Mrs. Abrams suggested a check off list.

Town Clerk Deschenes said if we’re going to put this in place this year are we also going to put
in place that process for classifying someone. How do we know at this point if someone is a
level 1, 2 or 3? Councilperson LaGrange believed that most people who are working for us
today are a 3. There are some people who are just starting so some might be on the low side.
Councilperson LaGrange said he would hope that someone who’s been here for 3-5 years is
proficient at what we hired them for so they’re at level 3. If they’re not, they shouldn’t be
employed. Highway Superintendent Duncan said the problem that we have is there are Court
Clerks and his Clerk that are here 5 years or more and he doesn’t know what that range is. They
are three of the lowest paid in the building. There’s a disgruntle area. Councilperson Baron said
this would change that. Town Clerk Deschenes said the Board may think they’re a level 3 but
what has their performance been like. Town Clerk Deschenes didn’t think we could assume that
everyone is going to fall to level 3. Councilperson LaGrange said we have to rely on the
department heads evaluation. There’s no point in having department heads without them having
some realization of their employees capabilities and proficiency in their job. Councilperson
LaGrange said he can’t judge two court clerks and decide if they’re both equality proficient, we
have to rely on their supervisors. There’s a point where micro management comes on the
department supervisors side not the Board. Town Clerk Deschenes just wanted to make the point
that a three is not just an automatic. Councilperson LaGrange said he didn’t say it was in that
respect. Councilperson LaGrange said if they’re not proficient by now its incumbent on the
supervisor to make a change. Councilperson LaGrange added most of our salaries are over what
the high side is anyways or close to it. Councilperson LaGrange added there are a couple of
items on the chart he would prefer changes to.

Edith Abrams
Mrs. Abrams said in order to move someone from one level you need certain criteria to check
off. Councilperson LaGrange said each department should have a criteria sheet. Town Clerk
Deschenes felt it should be standardized. Mrs. Abrams agreed adding it should be in the
employee manual.

Councilperson Reilly asked if Councilperson Mackay would have some sample criteria that we
could apply across the Board. Councilperson Mackay said his office has an evaluation form but
he didn’t know how effectively it would translate to Town Hall. Councilperson Mackay thought
we could procure that, offering to assist Councilperson LaGrange or Councilperson Baron.
Councilperson Mackay felt it’s a critical component. There seems to be an agreement that it’s a
level pay grade system. Therefore it’s not achieved over a certain number of years. That’s
another component of the pay system. This is based on entry experience and performance in the
job. That requires evaluation. Councilperson Mackay didn’t know if that’s been a typical
practice or if supervisors have formal experience in that. This is a whole new piece that we’re
beginning to formalize. Councilperson Baron thought they were done when Supervisor Pofit
was in office. Councilperson Reilly said even since then there’s been individual supervisors
coming in and giving us their opinion about their particular employee. They tell us their
employees are great and deserve a raise but there hasn’t been a consistent procedure. At the end
of the day, the supervisors must simple say they’ve met the criteria but it might help if we can try
to impose more formality to the process. Councilperson Baron discussed the performance
review that’s done at the school.

Supervisor Dolin asked that we go back to the Highway salaries. Supervisor Dolin said we’ll see
if this is something they like. Highway Superintendent Duncan didn’t have a problem with it but
felt it should coincide with the one at Town Hall. Councilperson Baron assumed he meant share
the whole document. Supervisor Dolin said no, he wants this on three sheets. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said this is not disruptive to the employees because it’s within a range
that they’re already in. Councilperson Mackay asked if Highway Superintendent Duncan is
saying that the interest on this particular spreadsheet is other then the first ten lines which are
highway specific. They want to see the rest. Highway Superintendent Duncan didn’t say they


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want that. The question was asked if we throw this out what they will think. Highway
Superintendent Duncan assumed their question will be where the other departments fall. Town
Clerk Deschenes said as much as the Board hates to see this out it’s in the public meeting
tonight. Supervisor Dolin agreed. Town Clerk Deschenes said she thought the employees need
to see this. Then you’ll get the input. Councilperson LaGrange said he doesn’t necessarily need
input from employee. The Town Board has to regain the control of the Town Board’s position,
putting salaries to jobs and deciding what we can afford to charge our residences. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said to take the chart and put it out because you’re the Town Board, and
be done with it. Councilperson LaGrange said this is what we’re elected to do and unless we
have $80,000 salaries for everyone they’re not all going to be happy. Councilperson LaGrange
felt the Board has to have the cojones to sit here and say we want to pay a maximum of $22 for
an Equipment Operator II for a salary and if he doesn’t like that he might want to investigate
another town or private enterprise. Town Clerk Deschenes said she’s just saying that the
employees have a right to see this schedule and ask how you came up with this and what certain
things mean. Councilperson LaGrange said the only part of this chart he wanted to have public
is the finished salary scale. The left side of the chart was simply for the Board’s educational
purposes. Town Clerk Deschenes said but it’s out there. Councilperson LaGrange said that’s
not his fault he didn’t want it to be out there. This was educational material to build off of. If he
had known we were going to throw it out in the public he would have just brought the levels.
Councilperson Mackay felt it was useful context. Councilperson LaGrange said for us and to
show how we came to it. Councilperson LaGrange added that he doesn’t think it’s necessary to
show how we come to these decisions. Councilperson LaGrange said un-elect me, if you don’t
think I can competently make decisions. Supervisor Dolin said in you’re defense it should be
pointed out that no one on the Board saw this before tonight. Councilperson LaGrange agreed.
Supervisor Dolin added that Councilperson LaGrange never asked him for input. Councilperson
LaGrange said the only input that went into this is from the executive session. Councilperson
LaGrange added this is the second draft. Supervisor Dolin said several questions have been
raised. This is not a final product. Supervisor Dolin said Councilperson LaGrange did this on
his own. Councilperson LaGrange added that everyone contributed because we went through the
first draft at the last meeting. Supervisor Dolin said as far as the right hand items he didn’t even
look at them the last time. Councilperson Baron didn’t think they were to that point at the last
meeting. Councilperson LaGrange said it was there but it was based on five years.
Councilperson Mackay said what you’ve already seen in discussion this evening is that you’re
right hand columns are accurate representations. Councilperson Mackay didn’t think there was
an exposure here. Supervisor Dolin said Councilperson LaGrange is saying he wanted an
opportunity to talk to the Board before it was release because he hasn’t shared this with anyone.
He put all the effort into it doing the best he could to make phone calls. Supervisor Dolin said he
knows a lot more about these numbers because he’d talk to these people in various towns. The
town with the question marks came up. Councilperson LaGrange said the top of the sheet was
cut off with the name. Councilperson LaGrange said it was one that the Town Clerk gave him if
she can trace it back we’ll put it in there. Supervisor Dolin said what he’s trying to do in
Councilperson LaGrange’s defenses is, say he did his best. Supervisor Dolin though tonight we
would try to address the concepts and the steps. Supervisor Dolin thought he did an excellent job
and as it’s turns out your intuition and research seem to be right on. Supervisor Dolin said to the
extent it’s changed in the future that’s not Councilperson LaGrange’s fault. It shouldn’t be
presumed tonight that it won’t be changed. Supervisor Dolin said he hasn’t gone through each
individual item, we just got this. Councilperson Mackay added that it’s also true that this chart
does not yet reflect salaries, its one piece. The longevity piece and the benefit piece are not here.
Councilperson Mackay said there are other supplemental pieces to this that are not reflected in
the salary discussion. Supervisor Dolin said the Highway employees make up half of our
employees. They are unhappy and they came to us with concerns. We are responding.
Supervisor Dolin felt more confident about his understanding of what’s been going on up there.
Supervisor Dolin said Highway Superintendent Duncan has had a plan and this will reduce it to
writing. Councilperson LaGrange added it will reaffirm it. Supervisor Dolin said this should
help explain some of the mystery. Highway Superintendent Duncan didn’t think there’s a
mystery in their salaries. The mystery is what goes on outside the Highway. Supervisor Dolin
said in terms of the budget, at some point he needs to talk to everybody about what we’re going
to do. Highway Superintendent Duncan said he can tell you what he’d like the Board to do. He
doesn’t like the budget procedure but he doesn’t mind it until it comes to the .1’s. He’ll fight
tooth and nail for a piece of equipment or whatever we need. Then when we get into .1’s and the
Board says let put that off. Highway Superintendent Duncan would rather see the Board say yes


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or no and be done with it. Councilperson LaGrange hoped this would alleviate a lot of that.
Highway Superintendent Duncan didn’t know if it will. Councilperson LaGrange felt it would at
least take care of a good percentage of it. Highway Superintendent Duncan said it’s the most
frustrating part. Town Clerk Deschenes felt a salary schedule was a great idea and the first thing
we need to do is adopt a pay scale. Then we need to indentify who’s not at that level. If they are
not, the department head should be advised so they can do a review. Town Clerk Deschenes
didn’t think you should just throw someone into that next category. Highway Superintendent
Duncan said with the exception of one new highway guy they’re at the scale. There are two guys
in the Park at the minimal of their scale. They will look at this and say when do I become that
and can we jump them tomorrow or next year. Maybe there are two clerks whose top salary is
$17 and they’re only at $12. Highway Superintendent Duncan felt that the Highway is easy
because they’re at the top it’s the other people that are not. Town Clerk Deschenes said you
need to do a review so it’s justified why they’re at that next level. Highway Superintendent
Duncan says he tries not to boost them right now. One guy has been 3 years at the Park.
Highway Superintendent Duncan tries not to do them all because it kills the budget.
Councilperson Baron didn’t think Highway Superintendent Duncan should worry about killing
the budget. If someone is performing at a proficiency level they should be rewarded. If they are
not and if it really does take them five years that’s fine. Councilperson Baron didn’t think that
should be Highway Superintendent Duncan’s issue. Supervisor Dolin thinks we’re also
mandating that we’re going to do this. Supervisor Dolin said Highway Superintendent Duncan
as a manger and a tax payer has always been very careful and fiscally concerned. This will free
him up. Supervisor Dolin said he didn’t know about the Parks employees but Highway
Superintendent Duncan should look at their proficiencies. Highway Superintendent Duncan will
look at it and let the Board know during budget time. Highway Superintendent Duncan said as
far as salaries he’d prefer an affirmative answer then to keep beating around the bush.
Councilperson Mackay asked what’s meant by .1. Highway Superintendent Duncan said .1 is
salary, .2 is equipment and .4 is contractual.

Attorney Mackey asked for some clarification. Is there flexibility in here for a level 2.5 or is this
all or nothing. Councilperson Baron said she would encourage us to maybe give them the 3 later
in the year when they meet that proficiency. Councilperson Baron didn’t know if we had to stick
to January. Highway Superintendent Duncan said over his seventeen years, once or twice he’s
asked the Board for that and it was on a six month evaluation. We did boost his salary in six
months but we actually came to the Board meeting. Attorney Mackey just wondered if it was
absolute or does it give the department head some flexibly for a 2.5 level. Councilperson
LaGrange said that’s a Board decision. We have a base salary, a middle salary and a top. If the
Board chose we could do it. Attorney Mackey said the most important thing is having the
starting salary and top. Councilperson LaGrange said that goes back to having the five levels
that he had originally, which people didn’t like. Councilperson Mackay said there’s flexibility.
There is the authority of the Board to make an interim adjustment and the timing of a review that
would effectively serve as an interim adjustment subject to Board approval. Councilperson
Mackay said if the Board is going to make an interim adjustment we’re going to hear the
evaluation justification for it. Supervisor Dolin said this can be amended or changed.

Councilperson Mackay wanted to take this conversation a different direction. He noted that
there is a $3 step between level 1 and level 3 for several of the Highway positions. There is a $5
step for the Labor Sub Forman and $4 in the Laborer FT Park. Councilperson LaGrange said a
lot of stuff went into this so it’s not perfect. He already has some changes. One was that the
Labor Sub Forman should obviously start a little higher. Councilperson LaGrange’s though
regarding the difference between level was when you’re hiring somebody to be an Operator or a
Mechanic they’re bringing a bigger level of education or expertise to the situation.
Councilperson LaGrange noted that the Labor Sub Forman probably should start a little higher.
Councilperson Mackay said his point is there is a range between $2.5 for clerk part time and $5
in terms of the three tiers amongst all those positions. Councilperson Mackay added that he’s
just pointing out that there is a subtle distinction in the range. Councilperson LaGrange said
what he was trying to take into consideration, was the level of proficiency can somebody bring
and how quick to do it all. In a lot of cases they’d probably start at the middle level anyway
unless you have someone right out of school. All of these can be changed. Councilperson
LaGrange added that he thinks he’s a little high on the Assessment Clerk. Town Clerk
Deschenes asked if we could get a number from civil service on that. Councilperson Baron said
they won’t give it to you. Councilperson LaGrange said he had that position a little higher than a


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regular clerk because he assumed there is more stuff to the job. Councilperson LaGrange didn’t
know if he went too high but that’s a Board decision. Supervisor Dolin said there is nobody at
the other towns that’s more than $15.91. Councilperson LaGrange said a lot of those other towns
are with a full time assessor. In talking to Brunswick, they were less of an assessment clerk civil
service wise than it was just a Clerk I. Councilperson LaGrange said it depends on what we
define the assessment clerk is going to do for us and what we expect out of that position. Town
Clerk Deschenes asked if Councilperson LaGrange asked if the assessment clerk was brand new.
Councilperson LaGrange said that can affect it but he didn’t recall. Councilperson LaGrange
said those are variable that do go into these. A lot of these that he did check on were people that
had been there a few years. Some of the NA’s were solely part time so he couldn’t plug them in.
There was one situation where there were three people filling the same job part-time. The NA’s
were where we were comparing apples to tomatoes rather than apples. Councilperson LaGrange
said this isn’t the perfect system it’s just something to give us a better idea than we’ve had in the
past. Councilperson Baron felt Councilperson LaGrange did a great job. She hadn’t thought of
Councilperson Mackay’s point of view about the $3, $4 and $5. Councilperson Mackay said he
didn’t know how he feels about it but he wanted to point it out. Councilperson Baron was glad
he did because someone will. Councilperson Baron said she was a little bit upset with the level
1’s for the clerical only because any of our clericals didn’t come in anywhere near that high.
Most of our clerical people have been here 6 years or more, other than the one part timer.
Councilperson Baron thought the entry level for the clerical position was a little high.
Councilperson Baron said she didn’t have any objection to the 2 and 3 steps. Town Clerk
Deschenes guessed that some of the clericals came in at $12. Councilperson LaGrange asked
when. Councilperson Baron said 6 years ago. Councilperson LaGrange said that’s a different
time frame. We’ve got to decide regardless of what someone’s feelings are what we want to start
people at. Councilperson LaGrange said maybe its $13. He just put this number in to get
started. The high side was the more concrete number in his mind. Highway Superintendent
Duncan said when he looks at that it doesn’t mean that they’re starting at $15. Councilperson
Baron disagreed. Councilperson Baron said if we incorporate this for January 1, it means the
next person would start at whatever this says. Highway Superintendent Duncan said that
contradicts what the Highway says. Councilperson Baron said maybe she’s interrupting it
wrong. Councilperson LaGrange said he’s trying to define a low side and a high side.
Councilperson Baron said if a Court Clerk’s left in January she didn’t know if it would be
appropriate to hire a replacement at level 1. Councilperson LaGrange said that’s what we have
to decide. Councilperson Baron thought that was interesting that you we’re focusing on the $3-
$4 difference. She felt there is a little bit bigger spread to compensate for experience in the job.
Councilperson LaGrange said that’s where with the five levels you could plug in a different
range. Highway Superintendent Duncan said you’re going to put the low end and top end as the
range. Councilperson LaGrange said basically that was the thought adding that level 1 would be
starting pay. Supervisor Dolin said you can bring someone in at a level 2. Councilperson Reilly
said to address Councilperson Baron’s concern on the first three clerks in category 2, we should
drop the starting level by a $1. Councilperson LaGrange said if that’s what the Board wishes.
Councilperson Baron said she would be more comfortable to show that we appreciated the six
years of the other people. Councilperson LaGrange said for the Court Clerk’s we have a starting
pay of $15 and they’re at $16.11 now. Councilperson LaGrange felt that’s a little low.
Councilperson LaGrange appreciated what Councilperson Baron was saying but the Board has to
make the hard decision. Councilperson LaGrange added if Councilperson Baron wants to drop it
a $1 he has no problem with that these aren’t chiseled in anything but let’s get away from
feelings at this aspect and get at what we’re willing to do. Councilperson Reilly said based on
that and the market that it makes sense to him to drop some of those level one’s. Councilperson
Reilly added that he didn’t know if he would drop the Clerk PT a whole dollar, maybe just fifty
cents. Councilperson Reilly said to $14 and maybe the Assessment Clerk would be $14.50.
Councilperson Baron said that one is a civil service exam and the others are not. Councilperson
Mackay said in the pay grade scales he considers column 3 to be strongly fixed but we would
have the option based on someone’s experience to come in at a level lower than level 1.
Councilperson Mackay didn’t know why we’d be obligated to pay level 1. Supervisor Dolin said
we’re not. Councilperson Mackay said level one has to mean a certain level of efficiency and
skill set. Town Clerk Deschenes felt that goes back to what are the requirements to meet that
level one. Councilperson LaGrange said what he was thinking is level 3 is the top proficiency
and that’s what the town is will to pay and level I is the very base starting situation. Maybe that
number is high here, but his point is we need a starting point and a finishing point. Town Clerk
Deschenes asked what happens if you’re over the number. Councilperson LaGrange said they’re


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grandfathered. Councilperson LaGrange asked how long the Deputy Clerk has been here. Town
Clerk Deschenes thought around 17 years. Councilperson LaGrange said probably in a lot of
instances people like that would have gone up to that level they’re now at with the added amount
of longevity and things like that in their pay. Councilperson LaGrange said he wasn’t concerned
about that. This gives us a framework for new hires and then longevity will take it from there.
Councilperson Reilly added that COLA would still apply across the Board. Councilperson
LaGrange agreed adding that we’ll adjust the whole schedule anyway. Councilperson LaGrange
asked if we would start the Assessment Clerk at $14.50, then $17.50 and then $20. Supervisor
Dolin said no, there’s nobody on here even at $18.50 except for his clerk. Councilperson Baron
though Councilperson LaGrange had a point, if you’re going to use that dollar amount paid for
the Assessment Clerk it’s important to note whether or not there is a full time Assessor.
Councilperson Baron thought that’s where we came from a year or two ago when we went from
a full time Assessor to part-time assuming that the Assessment Clerk would bear a great portion
of the responsibilities of the job. Supervisor Dolin said you can’t work outside of title if you’re
civil service and you only work 35 hours a week. Supervisor Dolin added that you can’t take on
Assessor duties beyond your job description. That’s what is happening here, she’s working out
of title. Supervisor Dolin added we have Mrs. Geurtze working out of title. Supervisor Dolin
wasn’t against the $20 level 3 for the Assessment Clerk but he didn’t see a reference for it.
Councilperson LaGrange said that’s one he had circled, that he felt he went high on.
Councilperson LaGrange said he’s flip flopping back and forth. Are we asking more of her
because we have a part-time Assessor? Supervisor Dolin thought the Board needed to go into
executive session. Councilperson Baron agreed. Attorney Mackey suggested checking with
Highway Superintendent Duncan first on one thing. Attorney Mackey said it sounds like to him
that you’re pretty much on Board with level three for all these people but you think level one is a
little high. Highway Superintendent Duncan said it may be. Attorney Mackey suggested
finalizing that tonight if we can. Highway Superintendent Duncan said his reason for saying that
he may have someone out of high school. Do we want to pay him $18 per hour when he can’t do
anything? Councilperson Mackay asked what adjustments he would make. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said level 1 in almost any category here could be $5 or $10 because
we’ve said you have the right to argue for the flexibility of what this person might be worth. It is
$15-$16 per hour but it could also be $10 per hour. Attorney Mackey said from sitting though
several years of budget negotiations he personally thinks it’s important to have a minimum
starting and a maximum for every position with a lot of flexibility in between. Attorney Mackey
felt you should at least define those two things otherwise position is in the abstract without
frames of reference. Attorney Mackey added that he doesn’t know if three steps are enough. He
liked the five steps. Highway Superintendent Duncan though the minimums could be less.
Councilperson Reilly asked Highway Superintendent Duncan what he would recommend for
level 1 for the Highway employees. Level 1 E.O. II / Mechanic was discussed. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said we could have a mechanic that’s mechanically inclined. Two of our
guys actually have to get licenses to inspect vehicles. If they come with that he’s worth it. If we
have to train him, he may not be worth it. Councilperson Reilly said Highway Superintendent
Duncan didn’t have to justify it but what would he recommend. Sixteen dollars per hour was
fine for the E.O. II / Mechanic and the Equipment Op. II w/Class. The E.O. I and E.O. II could
start at $15. Councilperson LaGrange thought the Operator II should be a little higher than the
Operator I. Highway Superintendent Duncan agreed to $15 for the Operator I and $16 for the
Operator II. Highway Superintendent Duncan thought $19.50 made sense for the Highway
Foreman I. Fifteen dollar is good for the Labor Sub Forman. Attorney Mackey asked about the
high column. Councilperson LaGrange said we already determined those. Highway
Superintendent Duncan said now we have flexibility. Attorney Mackey said if you’re going to
go with three columns should the middle column be the mid point between 1 and 3. Everyone
agreed. Attorney Mackey said that Highway is done.

Supervisor Dolin wanted to note that during the past two budget session it didn’t take 30 to 40
hours to discuss the .1’s. It was intense but did not take that long.

Councilperson Reilly suggested going though a similar exercise with the other categories before
going into an executive session. Councilperson Reilly asked for Town Clerk’s opinion on the
level 1’s. Highway Superintendent Duncan said if the Town is a business and we were to have
vacated positions in every position we are now putting in place a salary range without any names
or numbers attached. Highway Superintendent Duncan added in today’s environment the jobs are
far and few between and that’s why he went lower. People will work for less, not that it’s fair.


                                                                                         13
                                       FINAL 10/14/10
                                TOWN OF NEW SCOTLAND
                           SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
                                            9/22/10
Attorney Mackey said one of the problems with starting level 1 to high is that it’s insulting to the
people in column 3. Councilperson Baron agreed. Supervisor Dolin said there is $3 difference
between a guy that starts and a guy with 30 years. Councilperson LaGrange said that’s base
salary. Councilperson Baron said they are very good at what they do. Councilperson LaGrange
said you have a defined job that you’re hiring for, how long do you expect a person to get to that
top level regardless of the number of year. Councilperson LaGrange hoped after 3 year a guy
would fill the job the same way as one who’s been here 30 years. Councilperson LaGrange
added we’re talking base salaries. Attorney Mackey said he worked as a Break man years ago.
Basically the feeling amongst people who were working there was it’s 5 years of full time work
before you really were proficient at that job. Attorney Mackey didn’t know if you could
necessarily say that everyone will be proficient within 2-3 years. Councilperson LaGrange said
he’s not saying that but that’s where the evaluations come in. Councilperson Reilly said isn’t
how long it takes to become proficient a separate question from whether the starting salary for
level 1’s is too high. Councilperson Reilly suggested trying to figure out what would be fare for
the level 1’s in group 2. Supervisor Dolin said that Mrs. Glath and Mrs. Ernst started at $12.
Councilperson Baron thought the two clerks started close to that. Councilperson Reilly
suggested going down the list and take $1 off each of the starting salaries. Councilperson Reilly
asked if that made sense. Councilperson LaGrange said it did to him. Councilperson Reilly
asked if the Town Clerk though it made sense if the Assessment Clerk level 1 was $14.50, Clerk
I FT and PT was $14, and Clerk PT was $13. Town Clerk Deschenes said she didn’t know how
you’re classifying one over the others. Town Clerk Deschenes didn’t know why an Assessment
Clerk is worth $14.50 but a Clerk I FT is $14. Town Clerk Deschenes felt it was easier when
you look at the Highway workers and you know what they do. Councilperson LaGrange said if
the Assessment Clerk isn’t working out of title, like we expected of her, she should be the same
as the others. Councilperson Reilly added in the column 3 for those two positions he did bring
them together. Councilperson LaGrange agreed. Councilperson LaGrange said if it’s the
Board’s choice to make an Assessment Clerk and a Clerk I the same throughout that’s fine.
Town Clerk Deschenes thought there might be a senior Assessment Clerk if somebody wanted to
enhance. A similar situation applies to the Clerk I, you could take the next examine.
Councilperson Reilly asked if there is something higher than a Clerk I, like an executive
assistant. Councilperson LaGrange said there is and Mrs. Geurtze is taking that test.
Councilperson Reilly said maybe we should add it as a goal. It is something above and beyond a
Clerk I and we almost need to create another category. Councilperson Baron said the
Administrative Aid is the most current one out there but there is also Administrative Assistant
and varying levels of Clerks. The test this month is Administrative Aid. If we did anything else
there is already a list for it and you’d have to go with what the current list is. The lists are on the
books for three year. Town Clerk Deschenes said her question would be what we do about the
people that are not in those titles like the Confidential Secretary, Bookkeeper, and Deputy Clerk.
Councilperson LaGrange said we would also have to determine if we want to have another level.
Supervisor Dolin said if somebody qualifies we can then put an amount in. Councilperson Baron
said we could or like Supervisor Dolin said we shouldn’t be expecting people to do jobs that are
out of title. Attorney Mackey said it sounds like you have level 1 set. Councilperson LaGrange
asked if we’re bringing the Assessment Clerk to the level of Clerk FT. Councilperson Reilly
thought that made sense. Everyone agreed to $13 for level one for all position in this
classification. Councilperson Reilly asked if there is a distinction between Clerk I PT and Clerk
PT. Supervisor Dolin didn’t understand that either. Councilperson LaGrange said the Clerk I
PT was someone like Mrs. Campana and Clerk PT was Mrs. Glath. Councilperson Reilly said if
all of them start at $13 should Clerk PT be slightly different. Councilperson Baron said for Clerk
I PT to stay part-time they should only be working 50%. If it’s 35 hours then she can only be
working 17 ½. Supervisor Dolin said Mrs. Campana is FT. Councilperson Baron didn’t know if
she took the civil service exam. Supervisor Dolin said Mrs. Kavanaugh is working on that, it just
came to her attention. It’s because of the Recreation program. Councilperson Reilly asked if we
should have a separate category for Clerk I PT and Clerk PT if the salaries are same. Supervisor
Dolin didn’t think so. The Board agreed to take the position out. Councilperson Baron said the
part-time doesn’t matter. Councilperson Reilly said he’s not looking at part-time he’s looking at
a Clerk I and a Clerk. If the salaries are going to be the same we can take one of them out.
Councilperson LaGrange thought there was only a distinction because we made one here.
Councilperson Baron added it’s what ever civil service says. Attorney Mackey said civil service
doesn’t have to say anything about part-time. Supervisor Dolin said what Councilperson
LaGrange is saying is that it’s historical. Councilperson Baron said Mrs. Campana is the Clerk I
PT. Supervisor Dolin said not any more but she was. Everyone agreed to get rid of the title


                                                                                            14
                                         FINAL 10/14/10
                                 TOWN OF NEW SCOTLAND
                             SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
                                               9/22/10
     Clerk I PT. Councilperson Reilly asked if it makes sense from a civil service title category.
     Supervisor Dolin said he’d investigate it. Attorney Mackey asked how you determine whether to
     eliminate Clerk I PT or Clerk PT. Councilperson Reilly thought we should let Civil Service do
     it. Town Clerk Deschenes said we don’t have a Clerk I PT. Supervisor Dolin added that there’s
     nobody in that roll right now. Councilperson LaGrange asked if we could. Supervisor Dolin
     asked why we’re distinguishing them. Supervisor Dolin said he’d straighten it out with civil
     service. Town Clerk Deschenes asked if the beginning salaries are the same would the ending
     salaries be the same. Supervisor Dolin thought the Board should go into executive session.

     RESOLUTION 10-260
     Councilperson Reilly offered the following resolution and moved its adoption:

         Resolved, that the Town Board of the Town of New Scotland does hereby approve an
     executive session to discuss personnel matters.
     Councilperson LaGrange seconded the motion. All present and voting the motion carried (5
     Ayes).

     Executive session began at 8:30 P.M.

     Supervisor Dolin made a motion to adjourn executive session and seconded by Councilperson
     LaGrange. All present and voting, the motion carried.

     Executive session adjourned at 8:31 P.M.

6.   Adjourn
     Supervisor Dolin made a motion to adjourn and seconded by Councilperson Mackay. The
     meeting adjourned at 8:31 P.M.


     _______________________________________
     Diane Deschenes, Town Clerk




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