1 hainrih biolis fondis ofisSi gamarTuli sajaro diskusia Temaze by ert554898

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									                  hainrih biolis fondis ofisSi gamarTuli
                  sajaro diskusia Temaze:

                  `mSvidoba omis Semdeg: mogebuli omis sindromi?~

                  ZiriTadi momxseneblebi:

                  ninia kakabaZe, gazeT `24 saaTis~ Jurnalisti
                  Salva TadumaZe, samxedro eqsperti
                  giorgi maisuraZe, filosofosi, berlinis humboldtis sax.
            universiteti.

                  moderacia: nino leJava, hainrih biolis fondis samxreT kavkasiis
            regionaluri biuros direqtoris moadgile


       nino leJava _ madlobas mogaxsenebT mobrZanebisTvis. winaswar minda gTxovoT,
ise warvmarToT diskusia, rom SesaZlebeli iyos yvelas azris mosmena. es am sezonze
pirveli diskusiaa. yovelTvis rTulia axal sezonze saqmis wamowyeba, miT umetes,
rodesac saqarTveloSi, Cemi azriT, kidev erTxel gaCnda drois aTvlis axali
wertili. Cven samwuxarod kidev gviwevs Tqma _ omamde da omis Semdeg. es morigi
omi aRmoCnda saqarTvelos istoriaSi.
       2008 wels hainrih biolis fondSi konfliqturi regionebis Sesaxeb orjer
gaimarTa diskusia. albaT bevr Tqvengans emaxsovreba diskusia afxazeTze _
`afxazeTi: politika Tu populizmi~. masSi monawileoba miiRes batonebma Temur
iakobaSvilma, paata zaqareiSvilma da irakli tabliaSvilma. maSin swored imaze iyo
saubari, Tu ra strategia aqvs saqarTvelos saxelmwifos afxazeTTan mimarTebaSi.
ivnisSi ki, amave darbazSi gaimarTa diskusia konfliqtsa da migraciaze, `konfliqti
da migracia: qarTul-afxazuri magaliTi evropul konteqstSi~. Cven visaubreT
ivnisSi stambulSi gamarTuli konferenciis Sedegebze. konferencia exeboda
konfliqtisa da migraciis sakiTxebs da qarTul-afxazur magaliTs evropul
konteqstSi.
H      hainrih biolis fonds yovelTvis miaCnda, rom konfliqturi regionebisTvis
aucilebelia axali alternativis Seqmna. agvistodan es ori regioni _ afxazeTi da
samxreT oseTi politikuri TvalsazrisiT kidev ufro gadaCoCda saqarTvelo-
ruseTis sazRvrisken. Cven miviCnieT, rom situaciaSi, rodesac arsebobs bevri
pasuxgaucemeli kiTxva, da imis rwmena, rom es omi gardauvali iyo, aseTi diskusiis
gamarTva Zalian mniSvnelovani iqneboda, radgan aseve mniSvnelovania sazogadoebrivi



                                                                                1
refleqsia. mxolod Rrma da seriozuli diskusia mogvcems am refleqsiis
SesaZleblobas.
       SegaxsenebT, dRevandeli diskusiis Temaa _ `mSvidoba omis Semdeg, mogebuli
omis sindromi~. SeiZleba bevr Tqvengans gauCnda kiTxva, ratom vuwodeT am diskusias
ase. SeiZleba isic TqvaT, rom es mogebuli ki ara, wagebuli omis sindromia, magram
Cven vfiqrobT, rom SekiTxvebi saWiroa azrovnebisa da diskusiis wasaxaliseblad.
       ninia kakabaZe gaxlavT gazeT `24 saaTis~ Jurnalisti, Salva TadumaZe _
samxedro eqsperti. igi muSaobs arasamTavrobo organizaciaSi `samarTali da
Tavisufleba~. giorgi maisuraZe _ filosofosi, romelic berlinis humboldtis
universitetSi muSaobs, Cven mas vTxoveT, sakuTari dakvirveba gaeziarebina CvenTvis.
       pirvel rigSi minda ninias vTxovo, isaubros imaze, Tu ra garemo arsebobda
omamde saqarTveloSi, ra politikuri ritorika iyo konfliqtur regionebTan
mimarTebaSi bolo xuTi wlis ganmavlobaSi. Salvas vTxov, gagvces pasuxi SekiTxvaze,
SesaZlebeli iyo Tu ara am omis Tavidan acileba da warmoebuli analizi.

       ninia kakabaZe _ didi madloba. es darbazi iyo is erTaderTi adgili, sadac
vsaubrobdiT im mosalodneli saSiSroebis Sesaxeb, romlis winaSec samwuxarod erTi
Tvis win aRmovCndiT. Tumca, rogorc Cans, am saubrebma mainc ver gamoiRo sasurveli
Sedegi. rac Seexeba dRevandeli diskusiis saTauris meore nawils _ `mSvidoba omis
Semdeg~, Cemi azriT, mSvidoba omis Semdeg mdgomareobs mxolod imaSi, rom Cven
visaubroT am omis Sedegebzec, omis sxvadasxva mxridan maprovocirebel faqtebzec.
ra gavakeTeT omis Tavidan asacileblad. unda visaubroT amaze da SeveguoT imas, rom
iqneba gansxvavebuli mosazrebebi da daismeba SekiTxvebic, romlebsac aseve gaecema
gansxvavebuli pasuxebi. mTavaria, bevri visaubroT am Temaze.
       Zalian bevri milaparakia, damiweria kidec imis Sesaxeb, rogor mzaddeboda
omi, romelic miviReT. me darwmunebuli var, rom ruseTis mTavroba yvelafers
akeTebda Cvens provokaciaze wamosagebad da am omis misaRebad. is amisTvis Zalas ar
iSurebda da rogorc Cans, darwmunebulic iyo, rom rodesac yvelaze metad
moindomebda, sasurvel Sedegsac miiRebda da Cven CaverTobodiT am omSi. Cveni
daniSnuleba iyo, am provokaciaze ar wamovgebuliyaviT, Tumca qveyana amisTvis mzad
ar aRmoCnda. samwuxarod, momiwevs imis gameoreba, rac omamdec bevrjer miTqvams da
omis Semdegac, rom am SemTxvevaSi pasuxismgeblobas ver davakisreb mxolod
xelisuflebas, medias an romelime instituts. es pasuxismgebloba yvela CvenTaganma
unda aviRoT sakuTar Tavze. mec, vfiqrob, albaT, veraferi gavakeTe saimisod, rom
kidev ufro meti Tanamoazre myoloda gverdiT, romelic ityoda, rom omi
gamosavali ar aris da rom aseTi konfliqti samxedro dapirispirebiT ar wydeba.
imitom rom Cven am gziT ver SemovirigebT osebs da afxazebs da meore, am gziT
verasodes davamarcxebT ruseTs, romelic gacilebiT ufro didia, Zlieria Tundac
samxedro TavlsazrisiT, da albaT gacilebiT borotic aris. amitom is ritorika,
romelic Cvens qveyanaSi arsebobda, azrs iyo moklebuli. Cven xuTi wlis
ganmavlobaSi vcxovrobdiT qveyanaSi, sadac ,,mSvidoba~ iyo yvelaze arapopularuli
sityva, sadac am sityvisTvis dagvcinodnen da sxvadasxva argumentebs
gvipirispirebdnen. es gvesmoda ara marto xelisuflebis mxridan. dRes, rodesac
wagebul omze xmamaRla yviris opozicia, bodiSis moxdiT minda mivmarTo maT.
erTaderTi gamonaklisi iyo `respublikuri partia~, romelsac konfliqtebis
mogvarebis Camoyalibebuli xedva hqonda. `respublikuri partiis~ wevria paata
zaqareiSvili. danarCeni partiebi am omis wamqezeblebi iyvnen, isini mudmivad
spekulirebdnen am TemiT da aZaxebdnen mixeil saakaSvils, romelic xan daviT


                                                                                 2
aRmaSeneblis saflavze, xan ki inga grigolias studiaSi mudmivad debda fics imis
Sesaxeb, rom aRadgenda teritoriul mTlianobas. aravis dausvams misTvis SekiTxva,
rogor apirebda igi am sakiTxis mogvarebas. mTavari mizani yovelTvis dakarguli
miwis da ara adamianebis dabruneba iyo. Zalian bevrma faqtorma iqonia gavlena imaze,
rom Cven ar gviCndeboda uxerxuloba, rodesac vxedavdiT mediiT warmodgenil
virtualur saqarTvelos, romelmac erT-erT klipSi afxazeTi daibruna kidec da
soxumSi gauSva qarTuli bomondi dasasveneblad. Semdeg imdenad davijereT im klipis
realoba, rom maT namdvil cxovrebaSi mixeil saakaSvilma Rirsebis ordenebic ki
gadasca. sxva mizezs, Cveulebriv momRerals ratom unda gadasce Rirsebis ordeni, me
ver vxedav. Cven ar gamogvixatavs ukmayofileba, rodesac dReSi samjer yvela arxi
gvitrialebda klips `fsous wyali~, arc is gagviprotestebia, rom ar gadioda arc
erTi sainformacio gamoSveba, sadac ar iyo militaristuli siuJetebi Zlier
qarTul armiaze. aseTi propaganda rom ar iyo saWiro, amaSi darwmunebuli var.
davinaxeT, rom realurad, mters, romelsac oTxi milioni mxolod tanki aqvs, Cveni
jari, mxolod da mxolod imis gamo, rom mcirericxovania, ver daupirispirdeba.
amitom me minda, rom mSvidoba, romelic dadgeba omis Semdeg, diskusia, romelic
daiwyeba, iyos Cveni warsulis, bolo xuTi wlis analizi.
       Zalian mokled vityvi mediis rolzec. garda imisa, rom media sxvadasxva
klipebs, siuJetebs, sareklamo rgolebs amzadebda jarisa da samxedroebis Sesaxeb,
Zalian negatiur rols asrulebda im TvalsazrisiTac, rom yvela gadacema, romelic
ukavSirdeboda konfliqtis Temas, gaumarTlebeli iyo. Toq-Souebze epatiJebodnen
stumrebs, romlebic gansakuTrebuli agresiiT gamoirCeodnen afxazebisa da osebis
mimarT. ismeboda gaumarTlebeli kiTxvebi, romlebic mimarTuli iyo qarTveli
xalxis kidev ufro gasabrazeblad da gasaRizianeblad. is, rac xdeboda
saqarTveloSi da gansakuTrebiT TbilisSi, omis dros da omis Semdeg, aris imis
Sedegi, rogor vcxovrobdiT Cven omamde xuTi wlis ganmavlobaSi. omis dReebSi
rodesac vxedavdi manifestaciebs ruseTis winaaRmdeg, miCndeboda SiSi, rom
SesaZloa, qveynis mTavarsardals, mixeil saakaSvils, mondomeboda qarTuli jaris
konfliqtis zonidan gamoyvana, magram am xalxis SiSiT mas es ver gaekeTebina. imitom
rom qveyanaSi, sazogadoebisagan iyo erTaderTi dakveTa _ omSi gamarjveba.
       omis Semdeg xSirad miwevs Cems axloblebTan kamaTi. gadavwyviteT, Cveni
marcxi, problema, romlis winaSec vdgavarT, tragedia, romelic Tavs dagvatyda,
qarTuli artistizmiT SegveniRba. samwuxarod, am araswori mimarTulebiT wavediT.
ar arsebobs moTxovna imis Sesaxeb, rom vinmem agos pasuxi momxdarisTvis, rom
gaeces pasuxi SekiTxvebs, rom ufro metad davinteresdeT momxdaris mizezebiT.
       qarTuli sazogadoeba egueba pirdapir miTiTebas, rom devnilebi aRar
gamoCndnen ekranebze, raTa maTma gamoCenam xeli ar SeuSalos Cvens sazeimo
ganwyobilebas. araferi icvleba da es aris CemTvis yvelaze metad samwuxaro.
       Cems sityvas davasruleb tragikuli SemTxveviT, romelic ramdenime dRis win
moxda. specrazmis wvrTnebis gadaRebisas daRupuli `rusTavi2~-is operatori Seewira
kidev erTi siuJetis gakeTebas imis Sesaxeb, Tu rogori Zlieri specrazmi gvyavs.
qarTuli politika mimarTulebas ar icvlis, rac imas niSnavs, rom igive unda
ganmeordes. ramdenime wlis ganmavlobaSi Cven kvlav unda vuyuroT teleekranze,
rogori Zlieri armia gvyavs da rogor davamarcxebT mters da davibrunebT dakargul
teritoriebs. kidev erTi adamiani Seewira im maxinj politikas, romelic Cvens
qveyanaSi mimdinareobs da romelzec uaris Tqmas aravin apirebs. samwuxaroa isic,
rom oTxi dRe dasWirda `rusTavi2~-s imis gamosacxadeblad, rom operatori daiRupa
samsaxurebrivi movaleobis Sesrulebis dros da is ubeduri SemTxvevis msxverpli


                                                                                  3
gaxda, da rom amzadebda siuJets qarTuli specrazmis Sesaxeb. oTxi dRis
ganmavlobaSi TaTbirobdnen `rusTavi2~-Si, rogor miewodebinaT mayureblisTvis
informacia momxdaris Sesaxeb. am politikas jer kidev ewirebian udanaSaulo
adamianebi.

       Nnino leJava _ Sevecdebi, Sevajamo is ZiriTadi momentebi, razec niniam
isaubra. niniam Tqva, rom qarTulma mediam didi roli iTamaSa imaSi, rom sazogadoeba
Semzadebuliyo omisTvis. man aseve Tqva, rom arsebobda sazogadoebrivi dakveTa,
romelic wnexis rols asrulebda mTavrobasTan mimarTebaSi da iqmneba STabeWdileba,
rom miviReT Caketili wre. sazogadoeba moiTxovs politikosebisgan agresiul
qmedebebs, politikosebic Sesabamisad pasuxoben sazogadoebas. sainteresoa, diskusiis
mimdinareobisas Tu movismenT mosazrebebs imis Sesaxeb, rogor unda gairRves es wre,
raTa aRar gagrZeldes es tendencia, romelmac SeiZleba kvlav migviyvanos savalalo
Sedegebamde. axla sityvas Salva TadumaZes gadavcem.

       Salva TadumaZe _ mogesalmebiT. did madlobas mogaxsenebT mowvevisTvis.
SesaZlebeli iyo Tu ara omis Tavidan acileba, am SekiTxvas ori pasuxi SeiZleba
hqondes. ar iyo SesaZlebeli, imitom rom xelisuflebis politikuri danapirebi
mosaxleobisadmi Zalian didi iyo da mas rogorme Tavi unda emarTlebina. dRes
sazogadoebis 100%-s unda mSvidoba. ar daveTanxmebi Cems megobrebs, romlebic
fiqroben, rom sazogadoeba agresiulad iyo ganwyobili. arc erTi kvleva ar
metyvelebs imis Sesaxeb, rom sazogadoebas surda omi. gamokiTxulTa 60%-s surda
samuSao adgilebi. 30% ambobda, rom undoda teritoriuli mTlianoba, oRond ar
miuTiTebda, ra gziT eloda amis ganxorcielebas, vivaraudoT rom maT surdaT omi.
Semdeg gamoCnda, ramdenad undoda sazogadoebas omi realurad. araTu sazogadoebas,
Cemi azriT, omi arc jariskacebs sdomebiaT. imitom rom is operacia, rac
ganxorcielda, ar iyo saomari operacia qarTuli mxridan. is Sekrebebi, romlebzec
sazogadoeba gamarjvebis survils gamoTqvamda, me bunebrivad meCveneba, imitom rom
omi ukve dawyebuli iyo da misi wagebiT dasruleba aravis SeiZleboda sdomoda.
miuxedavad imisa, rom sami wlis ganmavlobaSi vambobdi, rom saqarTvelo ar iyo mzad
omis arc erT regionSi warmoebisTvis, Cemi azriT, gamarjvebisTvis bolomde unda
gvebrZola. imitom ki ara, rom gagvemarjvebina ise, rogorc dagegmili iyo operacia,
aramed imitom, rom mSvidobian mosaxleobaSi ar yofiliyo amxela msxverpli,
romelic bolos miviReT.
       da bolos, sazogadoebas omi rom ar undoda, mivxvdi maSinac, rodesac Cemma
mezobelma omis dReebSi Tavisi maRali klasis jipi Seamoagelva ezoSi da ganacxada,
rom rusebis saqme cudad iyo, radgan oms maTTan ukve amerikelebi iwyebdnen. gamodis,
rom sazogadoebas undoda omi, magram ar surda Tavad eoma. Tu gadavxedavT am jaWvs,
imasac, Tu visi manqanebidan iyo gamoyofili droSebi da vin yviroda imis Sesaxeb,
rogor daamarcxes ruseTi, vnaxavT, rom eseni iyvnen adamianebi, romlebmac didi
qoneba daagroves. am xalxisTvis mTavari gadarCena iyo da isini uars ambobdnen omze.
Sesabamisad, sazogadoebam kargad aitana is dokumenti, romelzec mixeil saakaSvilma
xeli Cumad moawera. amis Tqmis uflebas is gvaZlevs, rom prezidenti gamodis da
ambobs, rom aqamde aravisTvis uTqvams, magram axla gadawyvita eTqva, rogor
SesTavaza ruseTs afxazeTis gayofa. aseTi xelSekrulebebi Cumad ar ideba. ar
SeiZleba saxelmwifos meTauri Cumad agzavnides werilebs mowinaaRmdege mxaresTan
da werilis Sinaarsi aravin icodes garda im ori pirisa, romlebic masze
SeTanxmdnen. xalxs omi namdvilad ar sdomebia, arsebuli ekonomikuri faqtoric


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miuTiTebs imis Taobaze, rom sazogadoeba omisTvis ar emzadeboda. sazogadoebis
nawili iyo rezervi, romelmac pirvelive gasrolis Semdeg datova teritoria da
zogi iaraRianad gaiqca saxlSi da zogi uiaraRod.
       meore mxriv, omis Tavidan acileba SesaZlebeli iyo, imitom rom Cven
samSvidobo RonisZiebebis gatarebis resursebi amowuruli ar gvqonia. me am
mimarTulebiT ar mimuSavia, magram dameTanxmebian adamianebi, romlebic am
mimarTulebiT muSaobdnen, oseTisa da afxazeTis mxare mxolod erT rames iTxovda _
pirs, romelTanac SesaZlebeli iqneboda saubari da es piri ar yofila Temur
iakobaSvili. vimeoreb, politikurad oms Tavidan ver avicilebdiT, imitom rom
xelisuflebas Zalian didi danapirebi hqonda micemuli mosaxleobisTvis da mas
veRar asrulebda, da meore _ realurad SeiZleboda, imitom rom Cven saomari
araferi gvqonda Cvensave moqalaqeebTan.
       imisTvis, rom omSi gaimarjvo, arsebobs sami kriteriumi. pirveli _
sazogdoebrivi mzadyofna da omSi gamarjvebis survili. Cven ukve vTqviT, rom
sazogadoebaSi omisTvis mzadyofna ar yofila, mas erCivna, sakuTari Tavi gadaerCina
da ar adardebda omSi ramdeni jariskaci daiRupeboda an ramdeni adamiani gaxdeboda
morodiorebis msxverpli, meore _ oms igebs teqnikuri saSualebebi. dRes gveubneba
uSiSroebis sabWos mdivani, rom iseTi sahaero Tavdacvis saSualebebi, ruseTs rom
gauZlebda, ar gvqonia. aseT SemTxvevaSi, maSin, arc unda veomoT ruseTs. ninias
veTanxmebi, ruseTs 4 mln tanki hyavs, magram yvela am tankiT is saqarTveloze ar
wamova, imitom rom es ar uRirs, omi biznesia da Tu misgan ver amoiRebs
Rirebulebas, ar daxarjavs resurss. darwmunebuli var, ruseTi saqarTvelos
winaaRmdeg arasdros gamoiyenebda moskovis garnizonis SeiaraRebul Zalebs, imitom
rom es ar dasWirdeboda da arc uRird aelitaruli dajgufebebis im doneze
gamoyeneba, rogorc iyenebda CeCnur dajgufebebs, romlebic resursSi ar iTvleba.
faqti saxezea, arc erTi piloti ar yofila moqmedi. yvela pensioneri iyo da
danakargSi ar eTvlebodaT. aRaraferi rom vTqvaT bombebze, romlis utilizaciac
qarTul mxares uwevs, imitom rom Tuki raime nagavi hqondaT, yvelaferi aq
Camoyares. Cven gvqonda maRali klasis avtomatebi, magram avtomatebiT Tanamedrove
msoflioSi aRar omoben. biWi kvadrocikliT ki, namdvilad ar iTvleba karg
SeiaraRebad. mesame faqtoria mTavarsardali. miWirs raimes Tqma. aseve gamiWirdeba
imis gageba, rogor unda moifiqros adamianma, rogori azrovnebis unda iyos, rom es
qmedeba Semdegnairad axsnas, viTom mTavarsardali mSvidobiani mosaxleobis dasacavad
garboda da dacvam ver gaugo, waaqcia da Casva manqanaSi. vidre aseTi azrovneba
iarsebebs, Cven arc omi gvendomeba da arc omSi gamarjveba.
       me ar vfiqrob, rom saxelmwifos ar sWirdeba SeiaraRebuli Zalebi, an
saxelmwifo ar unda Caebas rodesme omSi, magram es omi kargad gaazrebuli da
dagegmili unda iyos da mas kargi mxedarTmTavric sWirdeba. 7500 wliani istoria
aqvs msoflios da arc erTi omi mSiSara mxedarTmTavrs ar mougia, verc Cven
movigebdiT. rac Seexeba mogebuli omis sindroms, swori poziciaa, imitom rom
sazogadoebas omi ar sdomebia da man omi sakuTar xelisuflebasTan moigo, imitom
rom miiRo oTxdRiani omi. teritoriebi daTmobilia da ori mxarea gamarjvebuli _
aSS da ruseTi. samwuxarod, Cven kidev erTxel davmarcxdiT.

      nino leJava _ didi madloba, Salva. me mainteresebs, ra roli iTamaSa evropam
saqarTveloSi mSvidobis damyarebisTvis da rogor SeiZleba es roli Sefasdes
swored aSS-is aqtiurobasTan mimarTebaSi.



                                                                                5
       giorgi maisuraZe _ es Zalian mniSvnelovani SekiTxvaa. Cven dasavleTi
warmogvidgenia erT mTlianobad, magram sinamdvileSi es ase ar aris. dRiTidRe ufro
ikveTeba gansxvaveba Tu konkurencia evrokavSirsa da amerikas Soris. TviTon
evropeli eqspertebi bolo ramdenime welia, mkafiod mianiSneben axali gzis,
alternativis Seqmnis aucileblobaze, romelic ufro rbil politikas SesTavazebs
samyaros, vidre amas amerika sTavazobs. es konfliqti yvelaze aSkarad erayis omis
dros gamoikveTa, rodesac evropis orma wamyvanma saxelmwifom, germaniam da
safrangeTma winaaRmdegoba gauwia amerikas. amas didi mniSvneloba hqonda. dRes
ruseTi Tavis agresias saqarTveloSi imazec afuZnebs, rom Tu amerikas hqonda erayis
dabombvis ufleba, masac aseve aqvs saqarTvelos ganadgurebis ufleba. CemTvis
gaugebari da aRmaSfoTebeli iyo is, rom eraySi omis dawyebis periodSi, berlinSi
saqarTvelos saelCos mier mowyobil qarTuli saTvistomos Sekrebaze yvela erTxmad
miesalma eraySi amerikis SeWras. iq imyofeboda saqarTvelos eklesiis
warmomadgeneli, evropis mitropoliti abraamic, romelic aseve uWerda mxars am
operacias. moralze da qristianul sarwmunoebaze arafers vambob, viciT, rom aq
sxva meqanizmebi muSaobs.
       sayuradReboa, rom dasavleTi ar aris mTliani am TvalsazrisiT. ra Tqma unda,
amerikas da evropas aqvT saerTo RirebulebiTi sistemebic, magram arsebobs
konkurencia, romelic sul ufro ikveTeba. kidev erT magaliTs movixmob. es sami
wlis win moxda. sakmaod farTomasStabiani konferencia gaimarTa berlinSi. erT
avtors dagisaxelebT, romelic yvelaze kargad aris cnobili saqarTveloSi,
slavomir JiJekma konferenciaze axsena `postatlantikuri samyaro~, anu amaSi
igulisxmeboda samyaro natos Semdeg, radgan natoc ki, dRes ukve aRar warmoadgens
erT mTlianobas. SesaZloa, Cven migvaCnia, rom es jadosnuri samyaroa, magram man
mTlianoba didi xnis win dakarga da amis Sesaxeb ukve inteleqtualebi laparakoben.
evropeli inteleqtualebi ukve maSin saubrobdnen imaze, rom Cven alternativa unda
mogveZebna amerikasa da ruseTs, an aRmosavleTs Soris. mogexsenebaT hantinktonis
Teoria, romelic swored ideologiuri omis Semdeg gaCnda da man, ase vTqvaT,
iwinaswarmetyvela kulturaTa dajaxeba, rodesac maSin TiTqos amisi realuri niSani
arc arsebobda, magram es moxda.
       saqarTvelos unda natoSi, germaniis kancleri, angela merkeli ki amas vetos
adebs. rogori iyo amaze qarTvelebis reaqcia? yvela aRSfoTebuli iyo amiT.
reaqciis araadeqvaturoba saqarTvelos mxridan aCvenebs imas, ramdenad araadeqvaturi
da iluzoruli warmodgena gvaqvs Cven dasavleTze. Tavi rom davaneboT jorj buSis
quCas. ratomRac gvgonia, rom Tu quCas cocxali prezidentis saxels davarqmevT, es
raimeSi gamogvadgeba. raSi gamogvadga? msofliom gagvicno, rogorc egzotikis
gansaxiereba, sadac SeiZleba stalinuri simptomi ganxorcieldes. da amas akeTebs
politikosTa is Taoba, romelmac ganaTleba amerikaSi an evropaSi miiRo. amaSi
gamoixateba swored maTi iluzoruli warmodgenebi dasavleTis Sesaxeb. es zustad
igive Jestia, rac al-qaidas moWrili yuris jorj buSisTvis mirTmeva. davubrundeT
angela merkels. gvgonia, rom is aris prezidenti, romelsac SeuzRudavi Zalaufleba
aqvs. angela merkeli, germaniis kancleri, faqtobrivad, mmarTveli partiis
Tavmjdomarea, is fraqciasa da partiasTan SeuTanxmeblad nabijs ver gadadgams. anu,
Cven ver viTvaliswinebT imas, rom iq sxva politikuri sistemaa. gvinda
evrokavSirSic, magram ra Rirebulebebis matarebelia igi. dRes rom gavxdeT
evrokavSiris wevrebi, ara var darwmunebuli, rom dRevandeli qarTuli sazogadoeba
bednieri iqneba, imitom is iZulebuli iqneba Seasrulos is samarTlebrivi
normativebi, romlebic moqmedebs evrokavSirSi, iqneba es religiuri tolerantoba,


                                                                                6
romlis xarisxic saqarTveloSi Zalian dabalia. warmovidginoT, rom saqarTvelo
gaxda evrokavSiris wevri da SemoiRes erTsqesiani qorwinebebi, misaRebi iqneba es
saqarTvelos mosaxleobisaTvis? ra Tqma unda, ara. amdenad, SesaZloa, ganviTarebis
dRevandel etapze myofi qarTuli sazogadoebisTvis koSmaric ki iyos evrokavSiri.
me imis Tqma minda, rom Cven realurad Zalian cota ram viciT evrokavSirisa da
natos Sesaxeb. reaqciebic, Sesabamisad, araadeqvaturia.
        bolo xuTi wlis movlenebs internetsivrcisa da mediis saSualebiT
vadevnebdi Tvals, amdenad detalebSi ara var kompetenturi. amitom cota Soridan
Sevxedav movlenebs. zustad oci wlis win saqarTvelo Sevida axal epoqaSi da mas
pirobiTad SeiZleba mitingebis epoqa davarqvaT. CemTvis Zalian STambeWdavi iyo
rogorc 12 agvistos, ise 1 seqtembris mitingi, imdenad, radamdenadac Tavi 1988
wlis saqarTveloSi megona. maSin daiwyo grandiozuli aqciebi da mas Semdeg aRarc
SeCerebula. ar Secvlila mitinguri azrovneba. am tipis azrovneba Zalian martivia
da ori lozungiT gamoixateba _ `Zirs!~ da `jos!~ Cven gaviyineT am azrovnebaSi.
arsebobs mteri, romelic unda davamarcxoT da meore mxriv, arsebobs
`miTologiuri~ `jos!~, romelic aseve daclilia azrisgan. maxsendeba 1991 wlis
Semodgoma, televiziis win aqciebi imarTeboda. irakli wereTelma warmoTqva erTi
fraza _ `CvenTan ars RmerTi~ da mere daamata, `aba zviad gamsaxurdiasTan xom ar
iqneba!~ es meqanizmi devs mitingur azrovnebaSi. WeSmaritebaze monopoliam,
daufiqreblobam, sworia Tu ara nabiji, romlis gadadgmasac vapireb, gamoiwvia Cveni
am mdgomareobamde miyvana. Zalian vwuxvar, rom dRes darbazSi ar imyofeba b-ni
nodar naTaZe. ar minda mas brali davdo raimeSi, magram mas albaT yvelaze kargad
unda axsovdes, rogor momzadda da Seiqmna samxreT oseTis konfliqti. gavixsenoT
1989 wlis Semodgoma, rodesac 40 aTasi kaci Tbilisidan avtobusebiT daiZra
cxinvalis mimarTulebiT. am kolonas batonebi zviad gamsaxurdia da nodar naTaZec
miuZRodnen. cxinvalis mosaxleobam uzarmazari piketi moawyo da es xalxi
cxinvalSi ar SeuSva. SevatrialoT situacia da warmovidginoT, rom patara qarTul
qalaqs moadges 40 aTasi adamiani. SemovuSvebT maT mitingis Casatareblad?
gavixsenoT am yvelafris winapirobebic. saqarTveloSi iqmneba pirveli araformaluri
organizaciebi. iqmneba `rusTavelis sazogadoeba~ da `saxalxo fronti~. oseTis da
afxazeTis wreebi adeqvaturad moqmedeben, iseve rogorc yvela, 80-iani wlebis
bolos mTel sabWoTa kavSirSi, da qmnian sakuTar nacionalistur organizaciebs,
iqneba es afxazuri `aidgilara~ Tu osuri `adamon nixasi~. Cven aman ise SegvaSfoTa,
TiTqos maT ar hqonodaT imis gakeTebis ufleba, rasac Cven vakeTebdiT. TavisTavad,
ras niSnavs nacionalizmi da ras gvaZlevs, amaze debatebi ar imarTeba. meore momenti
_ publikaciebis mTeli zRva, romelic pirvel rigSi `literaturul saqarTveloSi~,
Semdgom ki `mamulSi~ ibeWdeboda, es aris ori sanimuSo organo, romelmac Cemi
azriT, Zalian didi roli iTamaSa saqarTveloSi erovnuli konfliqtebis gaRvivebaSi,
iseve rogorc mitinguri azrovnebis gaZliereba-damkvidrebaSi. ibeWdeboda
publikaciebi imis Sesaxeb, rom osebi Zalian swrafad mravldebodnen da rame unda
gveRona, rom maTTvis ar unda migveca or Svilze metis yolis ufleba da a.S.
imarTeboda sajaro leqciebi imaze, rom saqarTveloSi cxovrobs uamravi araqarTveli
da Tu maT droze ar movuareT, iseve mogviwevs maTi garekva, rogorc israeli
erekeba palestinelebs. es fraza TiTqmis yoveldRiurad JRerda. es yvelaferi
TiTqos bunebrivia periodisTvis, rodesac mTeli sabWoTa kavSiri moeqca mgznebare
nacionalizmis garemoSi, magram yvelaze Semzaravi is iyo, rom ar ismoda amis
sawinaaRmdego xma. aq aris erTi niuansi, romelsac minda yuradReba mivaqcioT.
yvelas gaxsovT fraza, romelsac bolo oci wlis ganmavlobaSi gamudmebiT vismenT,


                                                                                 7
es aris `agenti~. es Zalian saintereso fenomenia, yvela, vinc gansxvavebul azrs
gamoTqvams, agentad iTvleba. yvela, vinc gansxvavebulad fiqrobs, momentalurad
ucxovdeba. Tu vinme ar gveTanxmeba, is momentalurad ikveTeba Cvengan. aman Segviqmna
nacionaluri identurobis stereotipi, romelic am eTnocentrizmze, erT totalur
niSanzea dafuZnebuli da yvelaferi sxva CvenTvis miuRebelia.
       me vfiqrob, am mitinguri azrovnebis gamovlineba iyo es movlenebi. Cemi azriT,
bolo oci wlis ganmavlobaSi qarTvel xalxSi mimdinareobda im azris Cadeba, rom
Cven ZaliT movaxerxebdiT gaerTianebas. Cven Zaladobis garda sxva saSualeba ver
movZebneT. minda SevexoT pasuxismgeblobis momentsac. SeiZleba yvelaferi
avurdavurioT da Semdeg gamoCndes nato, amerika an evropa, romelic mogviwesrigebs
yvelafers. esec adeqvaturia dRevandeli Cveni sazogadoebis azrovnebisTvis. ras
niSnavs, Tundac, locva-kurTxevis es totaluri fenomeni, es imaze metyvelebs, rom
me ara maqvs pasuxismgeblobis unari da gamudmebiT sxvisgan veli sanqcias, da Tu
saSinelebas Caviden, pasuxismgebelic is sxva gamodis. am yvelafris erTobis gamo
vimkiT dRevandel Sedegebs.

      nino leJava _ didi madloba, giorgi. rogorc giorgim Tqva, Cven bolo oci
wlis ganmavlobaSi mitingebis epoqaSi vimyofebiT, mitingur azrovnebaSi. giorgim
Semoitana binaruli dapirispireba, romelic verbalurad gamoixateba `Zirs~ da
`jos~ meSveobiT, anu, raRacis uaryofasa da raRacis mtkicebaSi. am martiv binarul
struqturebSi ikargeba is mravalferovneba, romelmac SesaZloa, cxovreba bevrad
ufro gagvimartivos.
      vfiqrob, ukve SegviZlia diskusiis gaxsna. erTi SekiTxva minda davsva, rogor
fiqrobT, gaizarda Tu ara 8 agvistos Semdeg saqarTvelos gaerTianebis
SesaZlebloba, gaizarda Tu ara im devnilebis dabrunebis Sansi, romlebic 90-iani
wlebidan cxovroben devnilobaSi. aseve mainteresebs, ramdenad SesaZleblad migaCniaT
samxedro konfliqtis Semdeg qarTvelebsa da osebs Soris, aseve qarTvelebsa da
afxazebs Soris ndobis aRdgena, Cemi azriT, ndobis aRdgenis gareSe verc erTi
konfliqti ver gadaiWreba.

      Mmamuka yufaraZe, studia `re~ _ niniam Zalian kargad dagvixata omis wina
periodi, rogor mivediT am omamde. mainteresebs, aseTi ganwyobilebis Semotanas
sazogadoebaSi, avtori Tu hyavda.

       ninia kakabaZe _ swored amas vgulisxmobdi, rodesac vambobdi, rom
pasuxismgebloba ar unda davakisroT erT politikur jgufsa Tu konkretul
adamians. es aris daxuruli wre. amaswinaT dasavleTisken vimgzavre, axali, feradi
bilbordebia gamokruli, romlebzec weria, ramdeni kilometria darCenili soxumamde.
gamaxsenda SevardnaZis epoqis droindeli damtverili bilbordebi, romlebzec ewera
`gvaxsovdes afxazeTi~. axalma xelisuflebam, romelic Zalian didi ambiciiT movida,
gadawyvita gaeferadebina es bilbordebi. rasakvirvelia, saimiso dakveTa, rac
miviReT, sazogadoebisganac modioda. calmxrivad veravis davadanaSauleb. Cven gvaqvs
omSi damarcxebulis kompleqsi, sindromi, romelic mudmivad gvawuxebs. samwuxaro is
aris, rom axali xelisufleba ukanaskneli xuTi wlis ganmavlobaSi arasworad
cdilobda sazogadoebis am kompleqsebisgan gankurnebas. militaristuli gzis garda
sazogadoebisTvis sxva gza mas ar SeuTavazebia, an ar SeuTavazebia im saxiT, rom
sazogadoebas erwmuna, rom is reluri gza iqneboda. is, vinc amaze laparakobda,
meqanikurad cxaddeboda `agentad~. am ideas emsaxureboda mediac. inga grigolias


                                                                                  8
studiaSi dapireba saqarTvelos gaerTianebis Sesaxeb yvelaze martivi gzaa da
mrcxvenia, rom cnobili adamianebi, poetebi, mwerlebi, romlebic imyofebian amave
darbazSi da xvdebian, rom am dapirebaSi erTaderTi, militaristuli gza moiazreba,
fexze dgebian da taSs ukraven prezidents. Cven, yvelam, mediam, sazogadoebam,
politikosebma, avirCieT es martivi gza imis dasajereblad, rom es iyo erTaderTi
gza da ar davfiqrdiT ra Sedegs miviRebdiT. isic makvirvebs, rom am Temaze
gamarTul diskusiebze yovelTvis gamoiTqmeboda xolme azri, rom Cven osebs da
afaxebs ki ara, rusebs vebrZodiT. Tuki es gacnobierebuli iyo, romel saomar
gamosavalze vlaparakobT. magram samwuxarod, kerZo saubrebSi amaze uaressac
vismendi, rac televiziiT ar cxaddeboda. yvelas gvyavs nacnobebi maT Soris, vinc
politikur aminds qmnis qveyanaSi da maTgan gamigia, rom ruseTi ver gabedavda
CarTvas am konfliqtSi, mTavari iyo dapirispirebuli mxaris amoJuJva da
teritoriis dabruneba. samwuxarod, am ideis garSemo gaverTiandiT yvelani.

       ana doliZe _ me Semeqmna STabeWdileba, rom vimyofebiT realobaSi, sadac
erTis mxriv gvyavs avtoritaruli xelisufleba, romelic Tavis arsebobas kvebavs
omis ritorikiT, imitom rom alternativas ver sTavazobs mosaxleobas, realobaa
isic, rom ruseTi mSvenivrad sargeblobs am situaciiT da aris saqarTvelos
mosaxleoba, romelic imyofeba sainformacio vakuumSi da ZiriTadad fiqrobs
sayofacxovrebo moTxovnilebebis dakmayofilebaze. TiTqos marTlac Caketili wrea.
ra unda vqnaT? erTi variantia, visac gvesmis es problemebi, gadavideT disidentur
moZraobaze, romelic gulisxmobs imas, rom daSorebuli xar mosaxleobisgan,
sabWoTa kavSiris drosac ase iyo. meore gzaa, daviviwyoT es yvelaferi da gadavideT
saganmanaTleblo muSaobaze, vidre es Sedegs ar gamoiRebs. sxva gzebs Tu xedavT?

       giorgi maisuraZe _ ra Tqma unda, ismeba es SekiTxva. 1993 wlis 27
seqtembers, rodesac daeca soxumi, dRis 2 saaTze, SevardnaZem gancxadeba gaakeTa da
Tqva, rom saqarTvelo damarcxda uTanasworo brZolaSi. me mgoni, es bevrad ufro
gabeduli nabiji iyo, vidre dRes saakaSvilis gancxadebebi gamarjvebis Sesaxeb. Cven,
rogori mtkivneulic ar unda iyos, realobas Tvali unda gavusworoT. Sesabamisad,
unda mivxvdeT, rom is stereotipebi, romlebiTac am oci wlis ganmavlobaSi
vikvebebodiT, ar amarTlebs. dRes saqarTveloSi me-19 saukunis nacionalizmia da es
anaqronizmia. gamosavali refleqsiaSia. unda daviwyoT momxdaris gaanalizeba. me
vemxrobi saganmanaTleblo muSaobas. Znelia masmediaSi gasvla, kritikul gadacemebs
masobrivi xasiaTi unda mieces, safuZvlianad unda gavaanalizoT, ra xdeba. ar aris
saWiro axali partiis Seqmna. samoqalaqo sazogadoeba saqarTveloSi, faqtobrivad,
ar arsebobs. verc opoziciis gaZlierebaSi vxedav gamosavals, imitom rom realur
gansxvavebas maTsa da mmarTveli xelisuflebis azrovnebaSi ver vxedav. samoqalaqo
sazogadoebis ararseboba uqmnis niadags avtoritarul sistemebs da uwyobs xels
adamianis uflebebis darRvevas. realur problemebze yvela Tvals xuWavs,
samagierod, martivia eqstremistuli da Zalebis Cvenebis, demonstrirebisa da
iluziebis Seqmnis meTodologia. davsvaT SekiTxva, ratom unda veomoT vinmes? ratom
unda SemovierToT omiT, dakarguli regionebi? ras gulisxmobs es dabruneba,
mosaxleobis dabrunebas, konstituciuri wesrigis aRdgenas? ra Sedegebs moitans es?
warmovidginoT, rom am regionebSi Segvyavs jari. ra moxdeba amis Semdeg? es kiTxvebi
unda daisvas.




                                                                                  9
       nino leJava _ anam dasva SekiTxva, Tu ra gamosavali arsebobs. am SekiTxviT
mivmarTav ninias da Salvas.

       Salva TadumaZe _ seminari mqonda usafrTxoebis sakiTxebze. iq vsvamT xolme
SekiTxvas, ra undaT am konkretul momentSi. am kiTxvaze yvela sxvadasxvanairad
pasuxobs. zogs manqana unda, zogs saxli, zogs swavla. erT-erTma qarTvelma miTxra,
rom unda omi. am pasuxma gamaogna, imitom rom absoluturad moulodneli iyo
CemTvis. am adamianma logikurad daasabuTa sakuTari pasuxi. misi TqmiT, omi aviTarebs
sazogadoebas. am logikis mixedviT, germaniam aRiara meore msoflio omSi damarcxeba
da misi mizezebi, da igi marTlac ganviTarda. Cven 1991-92 wlidan 2003 wlamde,
SeiZleba iTqvas, rom metnaklebad ganvviTardiT, imitom rom ase Tu ise vaRiareT
omis wageba. es logika sruldeba, rodesac viwyebT didgorobis zeimobas wagebul
omze da vambobT, rom omi movigeT. am SemTxvevaSi, Cven ganviTareba ar gviweria.
Sesabamisad, sazogadoebis is nawili, romelic miiCnevs, rom wavageT, eZebs wagebis
mizezebs da apirebs maT aRmosafxvrelad muSaobas. Tu Cven am logikiT wavalT,
ganvviTardebiT. mogebuli omis SemTxvevaSi ganviTareba iwyeba iq, sadac moigeb,
imitom rom yvela oms mohyveba ngreva, Tumca Tanamedrove omis teqnologiebi
gveubneba, rom ngreva arc ise didi iqneba. afxazeTi da samxreT oseTi, Cemi azriT,
ar warmoadgens samxedro TvalsazrisiT samxedro operaciis im obieqts, sadac
SeiZleba masobrivi xocva-Jleta gaimarTos. es aris qirurgili operaciis msgavsi
operaciebi, romelic nebismieri maRali klasis samxedro struqturam SeiZleba
Caataros da ara ise, rom ori dRe undebodes cxinvalamde misvlas da mere or dRes
ukan gamosvlas andomebdes.

       ninia kakabaZe _ erTaderT gamosavlad imis gaanalizeba mimaCnia, rac
gamoviareT. samwuxarod, ukanaskneli oci wlis ganmavlobaSi mexuTed iRvreba Cvens
qveyanaSi sisxli. es iyo 9 aprili, samoqalaqo omi, afxazeTis omi, oseTis omi da
meored oseTis omi. arc erTi es movlena ar gaanalizebula da ar Sefasebula.
samzareuloebSi yvelani vlaparakobT, magram sajarod arc dawerila da arc aravis
usaubria imaze, ra moxda da sad davuSviT Secdomebi, ratom ar moxerxda sisxlis
Tavidan acileba. Cven mxolod erTi pasuxi gvaqvs, rom udanaSauloebi varT da
yvelafers an afxazebs, an osebs, an rusebs vabralebT. dRes, samwuxarod, isev am
gzas vadgavarT. ar vcdilobT momxdaris gaanalizebas da es aris pirdapiri
maCvenebeli imisa, rom Cveni ganviTareba kidev ramdenime aTwleuliT gadaideba. im
SemTxvevaSi Tu gvaqvs am Temebze msjelobis, diskusiebis mowyobis survili, sad
unda moxdes es? dRes ar arsebobs adgili, saidanac SesaZlebeli iqneboda xmis
miwvdena mosaxleobisaTvis. aseTi diskusiebi, romelsac axla vatarebT, Zalian
kargia, magram 50 adamianze metni ar varT. mTavaria, aseTi diskusiebi TiToeul
moqalaqemde mivides. amisTvis televizia yvelaze kargi gamosavalia, magram Cven is ar
gagvaCnia, samwuxarod, is opoziciuri arxi, romelic arsebobs, araTu obieqturia,
piriqiT, Zalian subieqturi da araprofesionaluria. iq iseTi formiT aris
mowodebuli `rusTavi2~-sgan gansxvavebuli azrebi, rom maTi miRebac Zalian Zneli
xdeba. satelevizio media sakmarisi iqneboda am procesis dasawyebad, magram saamiso
neba dRes xelisuflebaSi ar arsebobs. amitom Cven unda vifiqroT imaze, rogor
davajeroT xelisufleba diskusiebis aucileblobaSi.

      giorgi lominaZe _ Tqven TqviT, rom mosaxleobas ar undoda omi, mere TqviT,
rom mas amerikis xeliT undoda igi. es azrebi winaaRmdegobrivi meCveneba. Tqven aseve


                                                                                    10
brZaneT, rom xelisuflebis mier teritoriebis dabrunebis Sesaxeb piroba iyo
dadebuli. piroba ki iyo dadebuli, magram arCevnebi am omamde ramdenime TviT adre
Catarda, xelisuflebas garantia hqonda, rom kidev xuTi weli iqneboda qveynis
saTaveSi. ratom daiwyo omi maincdamainc axla, roca arc prezidentobis vada
iwureboda da arc parlamentis uflebamosilebis. erTaderTi, rac iwureboda, buSis
administraciis uflebamosilebaa. ratom daiwyo omi amerikis arCevnebamde ramdenime
TviT adre, roca buSis administracias berketebi aRar hqonda mosaxleobaze
zemoqmedebis mosaxdenad?

       Salva TadumaZe _ jer pirvel kiTxvaze gipasuxebT. sazogadoebas dawyebul
omSi gamarjveba undoda amerikis xeliT da ara is, rom amerikas eoma Tavidanve.
SepirebaSi me teritoriuli mTlianobis aRdgena ar migulisxmia. 1 seqtembers
pensionerebs 100 dolaris Sesabamisi pensia unda mieRoT. dRes arc erT pensioners
aRar unda amxela pensia, yvela mSvidobaze fiqrobs. raRac periodis Semdeg
umuSevrebs unda mieRoT samuSao adgilebi, dRes maTac mxolod mSvidoba undaT. am
omSi amerikam moigo evropasTan, radgan man miiRo raketsawinaaRmdego Tavdacvis
sistema da perspeqtivaSi miiRo is, rom safrangeTi da germania mas SeiZleba gahyves
iranTan omSi. imitom rom evropam naxa, rom energoresursebi sWirdeba da ruseTi
misi arcTu ise kargi mimwodebelia. ruseTma moigo taqtikurad, man miiRo
teritoriebi, romlebic ainteresebda, amasTan, man SeinarCuna imiji da aCvena, rom
iseTive Zlieria, rogorc iyo aqamde. strategiulad moigo amerikam, magram me ver
vxvdebi, Cven sad varT an sad viqnebiT momavalSi. oms ar vukavSireb arCevnebs, magram
vukavSireb im interess, ra interesebic arsebobs energetikasTan da TavdacvasTan
dakavSirebiT, romlebic Cvengan gansxvavebiT, yvela saxelmwifosTvis prioritetulia.
Cven, gamoCnda, ramdenad Tavdacvisunariani qveyanac varT.

       vaxtang wowonava _ Salvam axsena kvlevebi da Tqva, rom mxolod 30%-s
surda teritoriuli mTlianobis aRdgena. Tu sxva kvlevebs gadavxedavT, iq
teritoriuli mTlianobis samxedro ZaliT aRdgenis mosurneTa procentuli
maCvenebeli gacilebiT didi iqneboda. me adrec ase vfiqrobdi da dResac ase mimaCnia,
rom Cveni sazogadoebebi, verc qarTuli, verc osuri da afxazuri, ver ganviTarda im
simaRleze, rodesac Cven civiluri, samoqalaqo da liberaluri eniT SevZlebdiT
erTmaneTTan gzebis gamonaxvas. SeiZleba bevri vidaoT strategiul Secdomebze,
romlebic iyo daSvebuli am oTxi dRis ganmavlobaSi. piradad me, miCndeba SekiTxva,
ratom unda yofiliyo Tbilisis meri lojistikis samsaxuris ufrosi. miCndeba
kiTxva prezidentis gamosvlasTan dakavSirebiTac. im gamosvlas vgulisxmob,
romelSic ruseTis orive prezidentTan saubars exeboda.
       im SemTxvevaSi, Tu osi separatistebis mier dakavebul qarTvel policielebs
24 saaTis ganmavlobaSi ar gaaTavisuflebdnen, saakaSvilma merabiSvils policiuri
operaciis Catarebis ufleba misca. ukve maSin oTxi rusuli TviTmfrinavi idga
administraciul sazRvarTan da lavrovma gancxadeba gaakeTa, rom maT daarRvies
saqarTvelos sahaero sivrce da amiT qveynis xelisuflebas daanaxes, rom kargi
iqneboda, Tu ar gabedavda Zalis gamoyenebas. amis Semdeg nebismier moqalaqes
SeiZleba gauCndes qveynis mTavarsardlis an generaluri Stabisa Tu Tavdacvis
saministros mimarT SekiTxva, ratom ar iqna damatebiTi zomebi miRebuli
strategiuli mniSvnelobis qalaqebis: foTis, baTumis, senakis, quTaisis dasacavad.
       xSirad ismeba kiTxva, risi dabruneba gvinda, teritoriis Tu xalxis. mapatieT,
magram vis eZaxiT Tqven xalxs? axlaxans Camovedi moskovidan, sadac saxelmwifo


                                                                                   11
universitetSi saerTaSoriso urTierTobebis fakultetze vswavlobdi. amave
fakultetze CemTan erTad swavlobdnen afxazebic. erT-erT RonisZiebaze erT afxaz
gogonas CvenTan, qarTvelebTan erTad suraTis gadaReba vTxoveT da man uari gviTxra.
garwmunebT, aseTi afxazi axalgazrda Zalian bevria. aRarafers vambob im Taobis
warmomadgenlebze, romlebic iaraRiT xelSi ibrZodnen Cvens winaaRmdeg. me, rogorc
im miwis mkvidrs, afxazebis sisxlis daRvris aranairi survili ar maqvs, magram maTi
Cvens moqalaqeebad moazrebiT did Secdomas vuSvebT, imitom rom isini didi xania,
aRar arian saqarTvelos moqalaqeebi, didi xania, aRar ixdian gadasaxads
saxelmwifos biujetSi. maT didi xnis win aiRes rusuli pasportebi da Tavs sxva
qveynis moqalaqeebad miiCneven. ra aris gamosavali? CemTvis, rogorc gagrelis, an
soxumelisTvis, bevrisgan gansxvavebiT, iqauroba gacilebiT metia, vidre kurorti da
dasasvenebeli adgili. CemTvis mTavaria Cems miwa-wyalze dabruneba. afxazs, romelic
Tavs saqarTvelos moqalaqed ar miiCnevs, ori arCevani aqvs, an rogorc sxva qveynis
moqalaqe, rCeba da cxovrobs CvenTan erTad, xolo Tu ruseTis moqalaqea da
saqarTveloSi cxovreba ar unda, ar aRiarebs Cvens kanonmdeblobas da qveynis
konstituciur samarTals, aqvs ufleba, wabrZandes da sadac unda, iq icxovros.

       paata sabelaSvili _ me mimuSavia afxazeTis konfliqtze da vici, rom Zalian
bevr afxazs moaqvs igive argumenti devnilebis mimarT. isini amboben, rom es maTi
miwa-wyalia da demografiuli samarTlianoba am teritoriidan mxolod am adamianebis
gamoZevebis Semdeg aRdga. imasac amboben devnilebze, rom Tu isini aRiareben maT
moqalaqeobas, dabrunebas aravin ukrZalavT.

      (adamianis ufleba centri) _ daiZaba situacia Tbilissa da moskovSi mcxovreb
xelovanebs Sorisac. ruseTSi darCenili qarTveli xelovanebi Zalian mZafrad
gaakritikes TbilisSi myofma xelovanebma. meore mxriv, movismineT kobzonis
araadeqvaturi mimarTva buba kikabiZis mimarT. aseve viciT, rom nani bregvaZem uari
Tqva moskovSi koncertis gamarTvaze. Tqveni azriT, ramdenad sworad viqceviT
qarTvelebi saqarTveloSi da qarTvelebi ruseTSi.

       ninia kakabaZe _ rasakvirvelia, samwuxaro realobaa, rom qsenofobiuri
momentebi saqarTveloSi daiwyo. rus jariskacTan vaigivebT yvela russ, me axla ar
daviwyeb rusebis dacvas, ara imitom, rom yvela erTnairad ar miyvars, bevr russ
vafaseb da pativs vcem. Cven viciT bevri internet-saiti, sadac ibeWdeba Zalian
mniSvnelovani analitikuri statiebi, romlebSic calsaxad aris gakritikebuli
rusuli politika. aseT dros Zalian mSurs maTi, imitom rom saqarTveloSi aseTi
tipis analitika ar arsebobs da ar gvyavs aseTi Jurnalistebi. ruseTSi dRes aseTi
statiebis wera gacilebiT ufro saSiSia, vidre saqarTveloSi, magram CvenTan es ar
xdeba.
       rac Seexeba xelovanebis mier erTmaneTis gakritikebas, esec bunebrivia albaT.
ar unda dagvaviwydes, rom saqarTvelos da ruseTs erTi niSani gvaerTianebs, aqac da
iqac mimdinareobs calsaxa, qsenofobiuri, negatiuri propaganda erTmaneTis mimarT,
gansxvavebuli azris mosmena rusul politikaze, poeziaze, rusebze, dRes
saqarTvelos media-saSualebebSi warmoudgenelia. igive propagandis msxverplni arian
ruseTSi mcxovrebi rusebi, romlebic aseve calsaxa informacias iReben Cvens Sesaxeb.
amitom, Tu vinme ar moindomebs gansxvavebuli telearxis CarTvas, damatebiT
internet-saitebze Sesvlas da gansxvavebuli informaciis moZiebas, mas SesaZlebelia
hqondes aseTi agresiuli damokidebuleba Tundac Tavisi kolegebis mimarT.


                                                                                 12
       unda gadaedo Tu ara koncerti nani bregvaZes, ver getyviT, magram me rom mis
adgilze vyofiliyavi, mec gamiWirdeboda dRes ruseTSi Casvla da iqauri publikis
winaSe simRera.

      salome jaSi, Jurnalisti _ me SalvasTan maqvs SekiTxva, rogorc samxedro
eqspertTan. msxverpli, romelic iyo, rogorc samoqalaqo pirebs, ise samxedroebs
Soris, ramdenad adekvaturi iyo. da Tu gvaqvs informacia msxverplis Sesaxeb
ruseTis mxridan?

       Salva TadumaZe _ samxedro TvalsazrisiT, oTxdRiani omis gaTvaliswinebiT,
msxverpli adekvaturi iyo mosamsaxureebs Soris. SesaZloa, cota metic iyo, magram
es Cveni brali iyo, imitom rom daWrilebi sabrZolo koloniT gamoiyvanes da isini
xelmeored iyvnen dabombilebi, ramac msxverpli kidev ufro gazarda. samoqalaqo
pirebs Soris msxverpli imaze meti iyo, vidre saerTod, oms unda axldes, imitom
rom samwuxarod, SeiaraRebulma Zalebma mSvidobian mosaxleobas gamoaswro brZolis
velidan. 1200 adamiani mokvda soxumSi mowinaaRmdegis SeCerebis mizniT da soxumis
mosaxleobam metnaklebas SeZlo qalaqidan gamosvla. am SemTxvevaSi ki, me vici
jariskacebi, romlebsac bavSvebs awvdidnen da maT ar mohyavdaT. rodesac
samxedroebi maRali klasis avtomobilebiT gamodiodnen da mosaxleobas iq
tovebdnen, ukeTesi iqneboda, maTTvis miecaT transportiT gamosvlis saSualeba da
TviTon fexiT wamosuliyvnen, miT umetes, hqondaT garantia, rom goris trasaze maT
aRar dabombavdnen. vwuxvar, magram qarTulma SeiaraRebulma Zalebma es amocana ver
Seasrules, Sesabamisad, msxverpli samoqalaqo sazogadoebaSi Zalian didia.

      paata zaqareiSvili, `respublikuri partiis~ wevri _ me ar maxsovs arc erTi
afxazi, visac CemTan suraTis gadaReba ar endomeboda. metsac getyviT, arian
afxazebi, romlebsac, ver vityvi, rom vZulvar, magram uxariaT, rom Cemnairi
qarTvelebi ar arian xelisuflebaSi, imitom rom hgoniaT, rom aseT SemTxvevaSi, maT
gauWirdebodaT saqarTvelosgan CamoSoreba. aseTi xalxic ki pativad Tvlida CemTan
suraTis gadaRebas. ar maxsovs aseTi SemTxvevebi, amitom dafiqrdiT, ratom ar
moindomes im gogonebma TqvenTan suraTis gadaReba. maT TqvenTan erTad suraTis
gadaRebaze uari imis gamo ar uTqvamT, rom Tqven qarTveli xarT.

      Salva TadumaZe _ vaxtangs kargad vicnob da mis istorias xSirad Cems
studentebs vuyvebi. vicnob afxazebsac, romlebmac kaxa Sartavas da irakli
alasanias bodiSi mouxades momxdaris gamo da vaxtangic icnobs im qarTvelebs,
romlebmac mas kodoris xeobaSi rZe gamoarTves.

       ana doliZe _ gulistkivili minda gamovTqva. bevri ram im enaze da
terminebzea damokidebuli, romelsac Cven viyenebT. albaT kargad gaxsovT,
faSistebis mier ebraelebisTvis adamianuri saxis wasarTmevad SemoRebuli
terminologia. saakaSvilma da policiam Semoitanes sityva `likvidacia~, romelic
dakavSirebulia ara xalxis mkvlelobasTan, aramed aparatis gamorTvasTan. es aris
lingvisturi Sedegi. swored aseve ar momwons da vewinaaRmdegebi termins
`oTxdRiani omi~. es omi CemTvis ar damTavrebula arc Sedegebis mxriv, gindac
osebTan mimarTebaSi, im xalxTan mimarTebaSi, vinc iqidan gamoyares, gindac aqeT,
saqarTvelos xelisuflebis mier kontrolirebad teritoriaze. imitom rom axla
miiReben `patriot aqts~, romlis meSveobiTac maT legitimurad SeeZlebaT aseTi


                                                                                   13
tipis Sexvedrebis aRkveTa. esec SeiZleba iyos erT-erTi faqtori, romelic mohyveba
am oms.
       ar mesmis, ratom unda iyos aqtualuri, moawyoben Tu ara koncertebs nani
bregvaZe da buba kikabiZe moskovSi. es ar aris dRes mniSvnelovani. me minda SevxedoT
ufro seriozul faqtebs da ufro Rrmad gavixedoT. yvelas nanaxi geqnebaT maikl
muris filmi `cxra TerTmeti~, sadac cxadad aris naCvenebi, rom maSin, roca
amerikis SeerTebuli Statebi ebrZoda al-qaidas, amerikis administracia da saudis
arabeTis administracia, romelic al-qaidas erT-erTi umTavresi damfinansebelia,
Zalian axlo urTierTobaSi iyvnen erTmaneTTan. ubralod, faqtia, rom Seusabamobaa
propagandasa da realur qcevebs Soris. zustad aseve, minda davsva kiTxva, Tu Cven
saomar mdgomareobaSi vimyofebiT ruseTTan, ratom gvaqvs Suqi? mogexsenebaT, dRes
Cveni gazi da Suqi pirdapir aris dakavSirebuli ruseTTan. Tu dapirispirebuli xar
am saxelmwifosTan, ratom ar xmarobs igi bolomde yvela berkets Sens winaaRmdeg?
aseve minda gavixseno zurab noRaidelis erT-erTi bolo interviu, sadac man Tqva,
rom miuxedavad imisa, rom Cven saomar mdgomareobaSi vimyofebiT ruseTTan,
nebismieri rusuli biznesis Semosvlas saqarTveloSi mivesalmebiT. amitom, aqedan
gamomdinare, nani bregvaZeze yuradRebis gadatana marTebulad ar mimaCnia.

       giorgi maisuraZe _ rodesac vnaxe daviT baqraZis gamosvla, Tu rogor
mouwodebda igi yvelas, yvela saSualebiT gaewiaT mtrisTvis winaaRmdegoba, Semeqmna
STabeWdileba, rom mas Zalian bevrjer aqvs nanaxi `kameloti~. es imdenad
uapasuxismgeblo gancxadeba iyo, rom normalur qveyanaSi mas pasuxisgebaSi
miscemdnen. aqve, ar SemiZlia ar Sevexo `patriotTa banakebs~, romelic danerga Cvenma
xelisuflebam. es xom pionerTa banakebis uSualo gagrZelebaa, arada, 21-e saukuneSi
xdeba, magram, samwuxarod, amaze reaqcia ar gvqonia.

      nino beqiSvili, Jurnali `cxeli Sokoladi~ _ dRes vnaxe lavrovis
gancxadeba, sadac igi ambobs, rom rusuli SeiaraRebuli Zalebi kidev didxans
darCebian samxreT oseTSic da afxazeTSic. meore mxriv, guSin yvelam movismineT is,
rac movismineT, Tundac TargmanSi dakarguli. ramdenad aris SesaZlebeli iq erTad
evropuli samSvidoboebisa da rusuli samxedro bazebis yofna?

       ninia kakabaZe _ erT patara kiTxvas mec davusvam Salvas. vin igulisxmeba 200
damkvirvebelSi?

       Salva TadumaZe _ eseni iqnebian euTos oficrebi, romlebic patrulirebas
moaxdenen, Seamowmeben, ramdenad daculia is xelSekruleba romelSic aravin icis, ra
ewera. SeiZleba ewera kidec, rom 3800 jariskaci unda Semoiyvanon wiTel zonaSi.
imitom rom aqamde ar yofila saubari imaze, rom oseTsa da afxazeTSi ruseTs
ufleba hqonda, Tu ar eqneboda individualuri xelSekruleba viTom aRiarebul
saxelmwifoebTan, Semoeyvana SeiaraRebuli Zalebi. aqedan gamomdinare, problema
evropel damkvirveblebs ar SeeqmnebaT. mTavari amocana Sesrulebulia, xeli
mowerilia Tavdausxmelobaze, SeTanxmeba miRweulia. momxdari Cvens winaaRmdeg iqneba
momarTuli, imitom rom garda imisa, rom teritoriebi davkargeT, davkargeT
urTierToba osebTan da afxazebTan. Zalian miWirs imis warmodgena, rogor unda
SevxvdeT erTmaneTs. arsebobs videomasala, sadac naCvenebia samxedro brZaneba,
cxinvalSi dawvan yvela saxli da maT marTlac wvavdnen.



                                                                                    14
      _ yuraSvili sad aris?

      Salva TadumaZe _ ramdenadac vici, daWrilia sakuTari avtomobilis SuSiT.
ratomRac xelisuflebam da opoziciam xelebi Seaxoca mas Ramis gancxadebis gamo,
romelSic igi konstituciuri wesrigis aRdgenaze laparakobs. amis gamo veRar
amticeben imas, rom ruseTi SemoiWra pirveli. dRes yuraSvili da msgavsi adamianebi,
albaT gantevebis vacebi gaxdebian da maT dabraldebaT yvelaferi.

      _ zustad aq rom movdiodi, gzaSi, SuqniSanTan SeCerda manqana, romelSic
ijda b-ni yuraSvili. mas ecva samxedro forma da mSvenivrad gamoiyureboda.
      weRan saubrobdiT imaze, undoda Tu ara qarTul mosaxleobas omi.
saqarTvelos mosaxleoba informaciul vakuumSia. Cven sainformacio saSualebebiT
gamudmebiT gvesmis, ramdeni milioni ixarjeba samxedro SeiaraRebaze da a.S. maSin
roca sahaero TavdacvaSi realurad gvyolia mxolod ori sazenito danadgari, da
gorisa da zemo afxazeTis garda mTeli danarCeni saqarTvelo daucveli yofila.

       Salva TadumaZe _ kiTxvaSi Cans, rom qveyanaSi informaciuli problemaa.
gagaxsenebT qarTveli meomrebis cxinvalSi brZolis pirvel kadrebs. samwuxarod,
Tavidan verc me SevamCnie. albaT, gaxsovT, tomrebiT aSenebul kedelTan Cndebian
samxedroebi, iReben tyviebs da isvrian. erTma Cemma megobarma mimaniSna, rom am
samxedroebs buSlatebi ecvaT. es iyo zamTris wvrTnis periodSi gadaRebuli kadrebi.
saxelmwifos sxva kadri ar gaaCnda, amitom xelisuflebam da `rusTavi2~-ma
gadawyvites TvalebSi nacari SeeyaraT sazogadoebisaTvis da eTqvaT, rom Cveni biWebi
cxinvalTan ibrZodnen. es videokadrebi videoportalzea ganTavsebuli. SegiZliaT
ixiloT, maT acviaT buSlatebi da axuravT Tbili qudebi. videoportalze
aRniSnulia, rom es masala atvirTulia oTxi Tvis win. im periodSi omi jer ar iyo
dawyebuli.
       biujeti imisTvis, rom saxelmwifos kargad SeiaraRebuli armia hyoloda,
Zalian mcire iyo. amisTvis minimum 18-jer meti Tanxa iyo saWiro. miliardi lari ar
aris Tanxa, romliTac qveyana Tavis sahaero sivrces daicavs. sahaero sivrcis
damcavi danadgari 100km-ian radiusSi, 400 mln dolari Rirs.

       vaxuSti menabde, saxalxo damcvelis aparati _ Cemi azriT, qarTuli
sazogadoeba iTxovda oms, romelic man miiRo. studia `re~ iRebs filmebs
konfliqtebTan dakavSirebiT. mec vmonawileob am gadaRebebSi. omamde ori kviriT
adre viyaviT Casulebi samegreloSi. rusebma uproblemod gadagvatares galis xidze,
magram qarTulma dacvam ganmuxuris samxedro banakSi gadaRebebze uari gviTxra. es
CvenTvis moulodneli iyo. visganac velodiT winaaRmdegobis gawevas, man uproblemod
gagvatara, visganac ara, uari gviTxres SeSvebaze.
       ras akeTebs qarTuli sazogadoeba omis Semdeg? samxedro eqsperts Cemze ukeT
ecodineba, ramdenad intensiuri iyo samxedro gawvevebi. mec Semexo es faqti.
Tavdacvis saministrom gamoacxada gawveva, am wuTebisTvisac xdeba mobilizeba da
weliwadnaxevrian savaldebulo samxedro samsaxurSi mihyavT axalgazrdebi. me Tanxis
gadaxdiT davixseni Tavi, radgan Cemi msoflmxedvelobis gamo ar minda jarSi
msaxuri.

      nino leJava _ axla Cveni diskusiis ZiriTad momxseneblebs vTxov, mokled
Seajamon saTqmeli an darbazSi dasmul SekiTxvebs gascen pasuxi.


                                                                                   15
       giorgi maisuraZe _ vaxuStis mier dasmul SekiTxvas gavagrZelebdi. erTi
Zalian mniSvnelovani aspeqti gamoikveTa. daaxloebiT 17-20 welia, yvelaferi imaze
gvaqvs agebuli, rom Zlieri samxedro saxelmwifo unda gvqondes. ramdenad
realisturia es warmodgena? ramdenad SeuZlia saqarTvelos an ekonomikurad, an
mosaxleobis masStabiT amis gakeTeba? Tu ruseTs SeiaraRebiT verafers davaklebT,
ra azri aqvs saqarTveloSi militaristuli saxelmwifos Senebas, ratom unda iyos
marTlac, yvela rezervisti? evropul saxelmwifoebSi ar avaldebuleben yvelas
jarSi samsaxurs. maT SeuZliaT alternatiuli socialuri samsaxuris arCeva. iqneb
daisvas es SekiTxva da gaxdes farTo diskusiis sagani.

       ninia kakabaZe _ giorgis veTanxmebi, amaze unda visaubroT. arc me mesmis, ra
azri aqvs imas, rom gvyavdes profesionaluri armia, kargad momzadebuli an Zlieri
samxedro teqnika, Tu Cveni mteri aris ruseTi. samwuxaroa, rom kidev erTi
tendencia bolo wlebis ganmavlobaSi, iyo is, rom Cven am sajaro diskusiebSi
ignorirebas vukeTebdiT adamianebs, romlebic darCnen da cxovroben afxazeTisa da
samxreT oseTis teritoriaze. Cven vambobdiT, rom am adamianebTan problemebi ar
gvqonia da mxolod ruseTs vebrZodiT. es didi Secdoma iyo da samwuxarod, isev am
gziT mivdivarT. aravin saubrobs imaze, rom Cven iq, kidev erTxel, iseve rogorc
osebma gvatkines guli qarTvelebis daxocviT, vatkineT maT guli osebis daxocviT.
axla kidev ufro didi sababi gvaqvs mxolod ruseTze salaparakod da mTlianad
ugulebelvyofT osebisa da afxazebis Temas, rac kidev ufro dagvaSorebs am
adamianebs. gamosavlad mimaCnia daviwyoT fiqri im adamianebTan erTad, romlebic
cxovroben afxazeTsa da saxmreT oseTSi.
       am omis dReebSi Cemi erTi afxazi megobari damikavSirda. aseTi werili
aravisgan mimiRia am dReebSi, Tumca ki gvwerdnen yvela qveynidan, sadac ki gvyavda
megobrebi da axloblebi. es ar aris adamiani, romelsac saqarTveloSi dabruneba
unda, an ar surs afxazeTis damoukidebloba da gansakuTrebulad uyvars qarTvelebi.
magram is Zalian Relavda, rom me da Cemi Svili ar aRmovCeniliyaviT saSiSroebaSi
da rame ar SegvmTxveoda. SesaZlebelia, idealisti var, magram mjera, rom is, rasac
SeZlebs erTi adamiani, SesaZlebelia sxvebisTvisac, mTeli qveynisa da
saxelmwifosTvis. Tuki Cven, calkeuli adamianebi movaxerxebT adamianuri
urTierTobebis damyarebas osebTan da afxazebTan, problemebi mogvardeba. maTTan
erTad unda davfiqrdeT, ra problemebia Cvens Soris.

       Salva TadumaZe _ ver daveTanxmebi gamomsvlelebs. saubari imaze, rom rusebs
mainc ver movereviT da jari ar unda gvyavdes, gamarTlebulad ar mimaCnia. laparaki
imaze, rom ruseTi waugebelia da arafers aqvs azri, yovelTvis am mdgomareobaSi
gvamyofebs. me vfiqrob, rom Cven unda vaRiaroT am omis wageba. ar ganvixilav
mxolod sabrZolo moqmedebas, mimaCnia, rom es aris politikis gagrZelebis erTi
komponenti. Cven politikuradac wavageT omi, visTan, amas momavali kidev gviCvenebs.
axla unda vimuSaoT imaze, rom sxva dros aRar wavagoT.

      giorgi maisuraZe _ Tu fizikuri ZaliT ver vugebT, sxva Zala movZebnoT.

      Salva TadumaZe _ ki batono, oRind unda vibrZoloT.




                                                                                   16
       nino leJava _ neba momeciT, davasruloT diskusia. CemTvis yvelaze
mniSvnelovani laitmotivi iyo is, rom saWiroa refleqsia imisTvis, rom gavigoT, ra
moxda da veZeboT gamosavali. ra iqneba es, jaris mSnebloba, ganaTleba Tu sxva ram,
momavali gviCvenebs. did madlobas mogaxsenebT CvenTan mobrZanebisTvis. hainrih
biolis fondi swored imisTvis muSaobs rogorc saqarTveloSi, ise somxeTsa da
azerbaijanSi, statusebis miniWebis gareSe afxazeTsa da samxreT oseTSi, rom
adamianebs SeeZloT refleqsia, azrovneba da sakuTari miznebis miRweva. gmadlobT.




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