Miracles

FAQ Profile Search Memberlist Usergroups Log out [ IslamMiracles ] You have no new messages miracles of quran are every where Faith Freedom International Forum Index -> The Quran and Hadith View previous topic :: View next topic Author Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:11 pm oto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next Message Post subject: miracles of quran are every where Mohammadmericales oined: 09 Feb 2006 osts: 67 It's stupid to use a complicated macheen without to read the manual written by it's manufacturer becouse you will wais alot of time to know haw to use it the best way and you will spoil it, That is the same to do with ourselves we are a complicated creatures, If we read the manual of our creator which are the heaven books each according to the it's age, so we will not waist time discovering what is the best way, life is so short for that. ----------------------Don't forget to be aware of quran miracales, It's not made by human, We discove alot of new scintefic mericales in quran daily. It have the scince of today and the scince of future, if you don't beleive search for Quran Miracles in the net. Mohamed is not stuipid to talk about scintefic theories (which are facts now) and these theories may be proofed it's viseversa in the future, then says there is no mistake in quran, (as every body know No human made a book without mistakes), he is not stupid to say that, but that is tru the quran have no scintefic mistakes. All the scintefic miracles in quran could never be discovered without the latest scintefic equipments and knowlage, like telescope or microscope, xray etc. Examples: between { } is parts of quran 1-the 1st and only full discription of the human creating steps and the shapes it take till i comes full baby. till now there is no names of theese shapes by words but in quran, they name it by nombers only till now. 2- The 1st discription of the creating of the univers.(the expantion of the univers). 3- the 1st book to say that the earth is like the ball not only that it mentioned that it's no a perfect ball{ we ball the day into the night and ball the night into the day} dinamic discription. {and you sea the earth we reduce it from it's sides} 4- The 1st book to discribe the mountains not only the apparent shap above the ground but also it's shape under the ground, as schoolers discovered that most of the mountain is under the ground as it's solid materials are extended under the ground like the the shape of the nails or pins { we made the mountains like the pins} 5- The 1st book that says that there is movement for the mountains. {and you see the mountains you think that it's freezed but it moves like the movement of the clouds} that's tru the mountains move with the earth moves which are many, also it's sliding to. http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html ack to top Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject: oss Mohammedmiracals. oined: 18 Nov 2005 osts: 202 As far the so call quranic miracles are concerned, please read Steven Luottos response to the islamic scientist Asadi: http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=18746&highlight=#18746 ack to top Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: ob Yes that article by Steven Luotto (aka Ioshkafuz) is brilliant. Scientific miracles in the koran? Does the Muslim honestly believe that he is telling us anything that we haven't heard about 1000 times before? All those 'scientific miracle arguments' have been demolished piece by piece. They've been reduced to dust. _________________ "Timeo homines unius libri musulmanosque et dona ferentes". Bobius, Collected Works, Volume 19, Chapter 19, p. 1919. oined: 16 Feb 2004 osts: 1544 ocation: Paris, France ack to top Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: Mohammadmericales bob wrote: Yes that article by Steven Luotto (aka Ioshkafuz) is brilliant. Scientific miracles in the koran? Does the Muslim honestly believe that he is telling us anything that we haven't heard about 1000 times before? All those 'scientific miracle arguments' have been demolished piece by piece. They've been reduced to dust. oined: 09 Feb 2006 osts: 67 So if you are brilliant just post one scintefic mistake in the quran. or at least answer the mentioned mirakles not all as they are counted by hundresds of thouthands miracles. and still there is new miracles to discover. The point is haw to speak about these scintefic facts 1500years ago. Lets think deeply. ack to top Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: hedippedes Mohammadmericales wrote: So if you are brilliant just post one scintefic mistake in the quran. Sure, the Quran is geocentric. Quote: or at least answer the mentioned mirakles not all as they are counted by hundresds of thouthands miracles. and still there is new miracles to discover. Hundreds of thousands? More like the same dozen or so. Regurgitated and regurgitated and refuted each and every time. Quote: Lets think deeply. oined: 20 Mar 2004 osts: 3719 ocation: the Netherlands You're killing me. _________________ To Bee or not to Bee a Madrassite: http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11189&highlight= ack to top Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: The Spider buTrevor Hello Mohammedmericales, Please tell me what you think of the following:Quote: 029.041 YUSUFALI: The parable of those who take protectors other than Allah is that of the oined: 01 Nov 2005 osts: 35 ocation: Shari'aville spider, who builds (to itself) a house; but truly the flimsiest of houses is the spider's house;- if they but knew. PICKTHAL: The likeness of those who choose other patrons than Allah is as the likeness of the spider when she taketh unto herself a house, and lo! the frailest of all houses is the spider's house, if they but knew. SHAKIR: The parable of those who take guardians besides Allah is as the parable of the spider that makes for itself a house; and most surely the frailest of the houses is the spider's house did they but know. However, modern science has discovered the following:Quote: Paul Hillyard says in The Book of the Spider 1994. "For an equal diametre, spider silk is stronger than steel and about as strong as nylon. It is, however much more resilient and can stretch several times before breaking - it is twice as elastic as nylon and more difficult to break than rubber. The energy required to break spider silk (its 'toughness') is about ten times that of other natural materials such as cellulose, collagen and chitin. Quote: Mark Carwardine says in The Guiness Book of Animal Records 1995. "Spider silk is the strongest of all natural and man-made fibres.... It is even stronger than steel: the dragline of a European garden spider (Araneus diadematus), for example, can support a weight of 0.5 g (0.002 oz) without snapping, whereas a steel strand of similar thickness will snap under the strain of just 0.25 g (0.01 oz)." From How Stuff Works http://www.howstuffworks.com/question87.htm:Quote: Spider silk is extremely strong -- it is about five times stronger than steel and twice as strong as Kevlar of the same weight. Spider silk also has the ability to stretch about 30-percent longer than its original length without breaking, which makes it very resilient. From Access Excellence http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/SU/spider.html Quote: Dragline silk is the fiber from which spiders make the scaffolding of their webs. It has been estimated by scientists to be at least five times as strong as steel, twice as elastic as nylon, waterproof and stretchable. "Dragline spider silk is actually stronger than Kevlar synthetic fiber- and Kevlar is several times stronger than steel," says polymer scientist David Tirrell who wrote a review for the journal Science describing the current research of several groups around the country trying to replicate the properties of spider silk. How about that! Stronger than Kevlar and five times stronger that steel! Mashallah! But hold on a minute, doesn't the verse quoted above say "truly the flimsiest of houses is the spider's house"? Surely, Allah is all-knowing; surely He would would have known about spider's silk? Now you may think that, however strong spider's silk is, a spiders web is still very flimsy. But if Allah was going to hide scientific miracles in his revelation, this eternal book, that would be discovered 1400 years later, surely this would have been the perfect candidate? How about:Quote: The parable of those who take Allah for their protector is that of the spider, who builds (to itself) a house; it seems to you the flimsiest of houses but it is the strongest;- if they but knew. Please don't say that seventh centuary arabians would not have accepted such apparent nonsense. They accepted stories about talking ants (see Qur'an 27:18) and they were willing to kill at Mohammed's word. They would easily have accepted the statement that that spider silk is actually very strong. So why did Allah miss this scientific miracle when so many other seems to have been included in the Qur'an? Regards, AbuTrevor _________________ Question everything! ack to top Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: ob Mohammadmericales wrote: bob wrote: Yes that article by Steven Luotto (aka Ioshkafuz) is brilliant. Scientific miracles in the koran? Does the Muslim honestly believe that he is telling us anything that we haven't heard about 1000 times before? All those 'scientific miracle arguments' have been demolished piece by piece. They've been reduced to dust. oined: 16 Feb 2004 osts: 1544 ocation: Paris, France So if you are brilliant just post one scintefic mistake in the quran. or at least answer the mentioned mirakles not all as they are counted by hundresds of thouthands miracles. and still there is new miracles to discover. The point is haw to speak about these scintefic facts 1500years ago. Lets think deeply. Mohammedmericales, hello. Now you are the one claiming that the koran contains scientific miracles. And yet you don't even quote the koran itsef to back up your claim. So if you want to remain focused just explain to us the scientific miracle here: Quote: 4- The 1st book to discribe the mountains not only the apparent shap above the ground but also it's shape under the ground, as schoolers discovered that most of the mountain is under the ground as it's solid materials are extended under the ground like the the shape of the nails or pins { we made the mountains like the pins} This is what the koran says about mountains: Quote: "We placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them…" (The Qur'an, 21:31) "Have We not made the earth as a bed and the mountains its pegs?" (The Qur'an, 78:6-7) For the author of the koran, mountains are holding down the surface of the earth. For him (or them) the function of mountains is to STABILIZE the earth, to prevent the earth from moving, as pegs that prevent a tent from blowing away. However mountain chains are PRODUCED by the movements of the earth! The Himalayas for example are the RESULT of the earth's instability, of two tectonic plates moving and pushing up against each other. Scientific fact is the OPPOSITE of what the koran claims. This proves that the koran is the work of a human mind and cannot be the work of any all-knowing God.. So as you say, 'let us think deeply'. _________________ "Timeo homines unius libri musulmanosque et dona ferentes". Bobius, Collected Works, Volume 19, Chapter 19, p. 1919. ack to top Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:57 pm Post subject: Mohammadmericales bob wrote: Mohammadmericales wrote: bob wrote: Yes that article by Steven Luotto (aka Ioshkafuz) is brilliant. Scientific miracles in the koran? Does the Muslim honestly believe that he is telling us anything that we haven't heard about 1000 times before? All those 'scientific miracle arguments' have been demolished piece by piece. They've been reduced to dust. oined: 09 Feb 2006 osts: 67 So if you are brilliant just post one scintefic mistake in the quran. or at least answer the mentioned mirakles not all as they are counted by hundresds of thouthands miracles. and still there is new miracles to discover. The point is haw to speak about these scintefic facts 1500years ago. Lets think deeply. Mohammedmericales, hello. Now you are the one claiming that the koran contains scientific miracles. And yet you don't even quote the koran itsef to back up your claim. So if you want to remain focused just explain to us the scientific miracle here: Quote: 4- The 1st book to discribe the mountains not only the apparent shap above the ground but also it's shape under the ground, as schoolers discovered that most of the mountain is under the ground as it's solid materials are extended under the ground like the the shape of the nails or pins { we made the mountains like the pins} This is what the koran says about mountains: Quote: "We placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them…" (The Qur'an, 21:31) "Have We not made the earth as a bed and the mountains its pegs?" (The Qur'an, 78:6-7) For the author of the koran, mountains are holding down the surface of the earth. For him (or them) the function of mountains is to STABILIZE the earth, to prevent the earth from moving, as pegs that prevent a tent from blowing away. However mountain chains are PRODUCED by the movements of the earth! The Himalayas for example are the RESULT of the earth's instability, of two tectonic plates moving and pushing up against each other. Scientific fact is the OPPOSITE of what the koran claims. This proves that the koran is the work of a human mind and cannot be the work of any all-knowing God.. No this part is to discribe the shape of the mountain, if you made a profile view of any mountain you will find it like the pins. The quran didn't mention the mountain function it mention the shape difinition. Also quran mentioned that the mountains moves like the clouds(another part of quoran), that is the abslolute discription of the mountain moves, as the techtonic peices are like two winds with clouds sliding twards each other the shape of the clouds movement in the area of connection between the two winds. is upward and downward and make a pin shape, so the clouds make also this movement just like the mountains. also mountains moves with the earth balling movement like the clouds. and slide with the techtonic peices like the clouds move with the winds. So as you say, 'let us think deeply'. ack to top Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: ob oined: 16 Feb 2004 osts: 1544 ocation: Paris, France So has Mohammedmiricales been convinced by my arguments and become an apostate? _________________ "Timeo homines unius libri musulmanosque et dona ferentes". Bobius, Collected Works, Volume 19, Chapter 19, p. 1919. ack to top Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: slamMiracles bob wrote: So has Mohammedmiricales been convinced by my arguments and become an apostate? oined: 09 Feb 2006 osts: 89 please read the above answer _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html ack to top Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject: slamMiracles bob wrote: So has Mohammedmiricales been convinced by my arguments and become an apostate? oined: 09 Feb 2006 osts: 89 No this part is to discribe the shape of the mountain, if you made a profile view of any mountain you will find it like the pins. The quran didn't mention the mountain function it mention the shape difinition. Also quran mentioned that the mountains moves like the clouds(another part of quoran), that is the abslolute discription of the mountain moves, as the techtonic peices are like two winds with clouds sliding twards each other the shape of the clouds movement in the area of connection between the two winds. is upward and downward and make a pin shape, so the clouds make also this movement just like the mountains. also mountains moves with the earth balling movement like the clouds. and slide with the techtonic peices like the clouds move with the winds. So as you say, 'let us think deeply'. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html ack to top Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:04 pm Post subject: ob Muhamemdmiricales. So why don't you quote the verses? I quoted the verses from the koran to demonstrate that the koran is wrong. So just QUOTE THE VERSES. The only verse that mentions mountains and clouds together is I think this one: Quote: HE has created the heavens without any pillars that you can see, and HE has placed in the earth firm mountains that it may not quake with you, and HE has spread therein all kinds of creatures; and WE have sent down water from the clouds, and have caused to grow therein of every fine species. S. 31:10 Sher Ali oined: 16 Feb 2004 osts: 1544 ocation: Paris, France So where exactly is the miracle? I certainly can see an error in the koran for once again mountains are said to prevent the earth from quaking. Earthquakes are prevalent in mountainous areas (look at Pakistan). In fact earthquakes and mountains there are produced by the same phenomenon of shifting tectonic plates. You would never guess that from reading the koran...And many flat areas (Holland, the Great Plains) are earthquake-free. So the absence of mountains cannot explain why they do not experience earthquakes. [/quote] _________________ "Timeo homines unius libri musulmanosque et dona ferentes". Bobius, Collected Works, Volume 19, Chapter 19, p. 1919. ack to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:47 am Post subject: Re: miracles of quran are every where llahuackbar Mohammadmericales wrote: as every body know No human made a book without mistakes oined: 13 Dec 2005 osts: 18 Hmm, do we? Prove it? I have shelves full of books without mistakes. ack to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:22 am Post subject: wachamalit oined: 06 Jun 2005 osts: 1213 ocation: Somewhere. Miracles?Yeah miracles alright. Miraculously stupid that is. _________________ Bob: Why is that guy marrying a nine-year old? Jimmy:Err...he's a Muslim. Bob: I see... ack to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:33 am Post subject: afir Forever oined: 09 Feb 2006 osts: 13 ocation: In your face The "miracle" of the Quran is that it still exists. _________________ Freedom includes dealing with being offended. No one has a right to not be offended. Freedom of speach guarantees that someone is offended. ack to top Display posts from previous: All Posts Oldest First Go Faith Freedom International Forum Index -> The Quran and Hadith All times are GM Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Nex age 1 of 7 Jump to: The Quran and Hadith atch this topic for replies Go You can post new topics in this forum You can reply to topics in this foru You can edit your posts in this foru You can delete your posts in this forum You can vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Profile You have no new messages Log out [ IslamMiracles ] racles of quran are every where Faith Freedom International Forum Index -> The Quran and Hadith page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next View previous topic :: View next to Author Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:19 am Message Post subject: Re: The Spider mMiracles d: 09 Feb 2006 89 answered _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Last edited by IslamMiracles on Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:46 am; edited 1 time in total to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:40 am Post subject: mMiracles ross wrote: Mohammedmiracals. As far the so call quranic miracles are concerned, please read Steven Luottos response to the islamic scientist Asadi: http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=18746&highlight=#18746 d: 09 Feb 2006 89 He missed the point of the miracles aim, the aim of the miracles is to prove to people in the of scince that the quran is god word by scintefic miracles (as all the profits had miracles that nation can understand). The miracles is not to help people discovering new inventions, it's al was examples in the quran for other topic but scince, but these examples are scintefic. also don't mix between the aim of miracles and the aim of quran, as the quran give the syste that develope all the scinces, and all kinds of prosperity. The point is haw a human fabricat these discoveries and mention it in a book suposed to leive long for him, and mention these thouthands of scintefic theories that is facts now with the he of the modern equipment. and in the same time says there is no error. relax and think deeply. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:44 am Post subject: Re: The Spider mMiracles abuTrevor wrote: Hello Mohammedmericales, Please tell me what you think of the following:Quote: 029.041 YUSUFALI: The parable of those who take protectors other than Allah is that of the spider, who builds (to itself) a house; but truly the flimsiest of houses is the spider's house;- if they but knew. PICKTHAL: The likeness of those who choose other patrons than Allah is as the likeness of the spider when she taketh unto herself a house, and lo! the frailest of all houses is the spider's house, if they but knew. SHAKIR: The parable of those who take guardians besides Allah is as the parable of the spider that makes for itself a house; and most surely the frailest of the houses is the spider's house did they but know. d: 09 Feb 2006 89 However, modern science has discovered the following:Quote: Paul Hillyard says in The Book of the Spider 1994. "For an equal diametre, spider silk is stronger than steel and about as strong as nylon. It is, however much more resilient and can stretch several times before breaking - it is twice as elastic as nylon and more difficult to break than rubber. The energy required to break spider silk (its 'toughness') is about ten times that of other natural materials such as cellulose, collagen and chitin. Quote: Mark Carwardine says in The Guiness Book of Animal Records 1995. "Spider silk is the strongest of all natural and man-made fibres.... It is even stronger than steel: the dragline of a European garden spider (Araneus diadematus), for example, can support a weight of 0.5 g (0.002 oz) without snapping, whereas a steel strand of similar thickness will snap under the strain of just 0.25 g (0.01 oz)." From How Stuff Works http://www.howstuffworks.com/question87.htm:Quote: Spider silk is extremely strong -- it is about five times stronger than steel and twice as strong as Kevlar of the same weight. Spider silk also has the ability to stretch about 30-percent longer than its original length without breaking, which makes it very resilient. From Access Excellence http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/SU/spider.html Quote: Dragline silk is the fiber from which spiders make the scaffolding of their webs. It has been estimated by scientists to be at least five times as strong as steel, twice as elastic as nylon, waterproof and stretchable. "Dragline spider silk is actually stronger than Kevlar synthetic fiber- and Kevlar is several times stronger than steel," says polymer scientist David Tirrell who wrote a review for the journal Science describing the current research of several groups around the country trying to replicate the properties of spider silk. How about that! Stronger than Kevlar and five times stronger that steel! Mashallah! But hold on a minute, doesn't the verse quoted above say "truly the flimsiest of houses is the spider's house"? Surely, Allah is all-knowing; surely He would would have known about spider's silk? Now you may think that, however strong spider's silk is, a spiders web is still very flimsy. But if Allah was going to hide scientific miracles in his revelation, this eternal book, that would be discovered 1400 years later, surely this would have been the perfect candidate? How about:Quote: The parable of those who take Allah for their protector is that of the spider, who builds (to itself) a house; it seems to you the flimsiest of houses but it is the strongest;- if they but knew. Please don't say that seventh centuary arabians would not have accepted such apparent nonsense. They accepted stories about talking ants (see Qur'an 27:1 and they were willing to kill at Mohammed's word. They would easily have accepted the statement that that spider silk is actually very strong. So why did Allah miss this scientific miracle when so many other seems to have been included in the Qur'an? Regards, AbuTrevor The answer is clear hous of the ants for example can protect it from the big animals (not the small insects ofcourse it's not dangerous as the big animals) but the spider house is nothing w the big animals. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:08 am Post subject: Re: The Spider fu IslamMiracles wrote: The answer is clear hous of the ants for example can protect it from the big animals (not the small insects ofcourse it's not dangerous as the big animals) but the spider house is nothing with the big animals. d: 06 Jul 2004 6498 ion: none of your business What? _________________ _________________ to top hamalit Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:12 am Post subject: d: 06 Jun 2005 1213 ion: Somewhere. Interesting that this Muslim dodged the stars missles to shoot djinn "miracle". _________________ Bob: Why is that guy marrying a nine-year old? Jimmy:Err...he's a Muslim. Bob: I see... to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:21 am Post subject: mMiracles d: 09 Feb 2006 89 bob wrote: Muhamemdmiricales. So why don't you quote the verses? I quoted the verses from the koran to demonstrate that the koran is wrong. So just QUOTE THE VERSES. The only verse that mentions mountains and clouds together is I think this one: Quote: HE has created the heavens without any pillars that you can see, and HE has placed in the earth firm mountains that it may not quake with you, and HE has spread therein all kinds of creatures; and WE have sent down water from the clouds, and have caused to grow therein of every fine species. S. 31:10 Sher Ali So where exactly is the miracle? I certainly can see an error in the koran for once again mountains are said to prevent the earth from quaking. Earthquakes are prevalent in mountainous areas (look at Pakistan). In fact earthquakes and mountains there are produced by the same phenomenon of shifting tectonic plates. You would never guess that from reading the koran...And many flat areas (Holland, the Great Plains) are earthquake-free. So the absence of mountains cannot explain why they do not experience earthquakes. [/quote] I will try to translate the aya 31-10 word by word, it dosn't have the word of either mountain quake, I think it's a midiaval translation again. In Arabic: khalaq alsama beghayr 3amaden tarawnaha waalqua fee alard rawasya an tameed bekom wa bath feeha men kol dabbaten, wanzalna men alsamaa maa2an fanbatna feeha men zawjen kareem. The translation is (it's also not the perfect translation also its word by word translation): and created the heavens without pillars that you can see, and droped on the earth stable (things) (they translated this word as mountains) may sawy with you .... If you want me to searsh for it's modern meaning I will, but I swear to you no mountains or earthquaques are mentiond at all, I'm arabic man. The verse that speak about the mountains paasing like the pass of clouds is: 27:8 http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_26.html _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: mMiracles wachamalit wrote: Interesting that this Muslim dodged the stars missles to shoot djinn "miracle". d: 09 Feb 2006 89 The quran when it mention the stars mentioined it with many ways which is the same as the excavations. for example: (I will not with the sites of the stars, it's a swear when you will know great.) so god didn't mistake in the name of the stars and mentioned that it's only sites, becouse the sta that we see is just sites for a stars was there from long time passed. becouse the stars move what we sea is an old light du to the distance between the earth and the stars. For mentioning djinn you may be don't beleive, wach the american wija boards films but don buy for yourself a board it's satanic groups who do it. and magic is forbidden in Islam (forbidd means harmfull in our culture) and wach the guys who can fly with the help of them. I saw it with my eyes, and also saw american man do it in the tv in the streets, he makes the people for some centimeters. the recording of this vedio was without cuts, I think these magitians ar famous in USA. god didn't say that it's stars which shoot djin it's Shohob, it shots who tries to listen to what w happen in the future, in order to help the predictors o know the future, these shohob appear only in the age of the profit Mohammed, I think you heared about the predictors in the past, no predictor can know alot now becouse of these shohob. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:52 am Post subject: mMiracles d: 09 Feb 2006 89 answered _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: Re: The Spider tora gupsfu wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: The answer is clear hous of the ants for example can protect it from the big animals (not the small insects ofcourse it's not dangerous as the big animals) but the spider house is nothing with the big animals. d: 15 Nov 2005 12 ion: East of Eden, Southeast of Hell What? I agree.... WHAT!!! The parable cleary indicates that spiders built their web as not only as th home but a foundation on which they stand on. So it indicates that these foundation is the flimsiest (ie: the weakest of all). Therefore it is very fragile. So, in the passage it seems havi complete faith in any other god but allah is fragile just as a spider building its house. It's a clear indication that these pasages in the Koran is incorrect. As for answer that IslamMiracle try to give with the ant story is also incorrect because that parable deals with the ability of people able to withstand HUGE challanges as a group and no an individual. This can only be done if you have the same goal and vision with the others (hen the ants). And this are normaly achieve when you share a common trait (ie: religion). Parables are actually kind of story to reveal an actual meaning in order to convey that messa to the mass. You cannot use another parable to justify a previous parable (exception is given they have the same meaning or trying to deliver the same message). If indeed you do so (use another parable), this prove that the first parable is wrong in the first place (or maybe it's inaccurate). to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:10 am Post subject: Re: miracles of quran are every where mMiracles allahuackbar wrote: Mohammadmericales wrote: as every body know No human made a book without mistakes d: 09 Feb 2006 89 Hmm, do we? Prove it? I have shelves full of books without mistakes. No any scintists says that he know every thing so there is no mistake, if he said that that mea he is not scintist. Ask any doctor or real scintist if there is a book without mistake or not, if there is that mean didn't mention any considered topic in his book. look at the quran it's not a small book, it spe about all the aspects in life in the same tim, is there is a scintist can be specialized in all aspects? and spek about scintefic matters this way? in this time? Is there is a book without a grammer mistake. if no grammer mistakes there is contrary ideas or even semi contrary ideas. if there is no of the above there is uncomplete ideas. Well it's incridable to ave a real book without mistakes, can we bit on this but if I studied a b theire should be a lot of audience so there will be a big effect. are you ready for this challan Ok give me a name of any known book that many people wrote about it like quran and I'm rea to give you a dozen of mistakes in each chapter. of course not grammer mistakes as i'm not g in grammer. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: mMiracles Kafir Forever wrote: The "miracle" of the Quran is that it still exists. d: 09 Feb 2006 89 Just pay a little attention to what we are typing and you will understand. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: [quote="IslamMiracles"] bob wrote: Muhamemdmiricales. So why don't you quote the verses? I quoted the verses from the koran to demonstrate that the koran is wrong. So just QUOTE THE VERSES. The only verse that mentions mountains and clouds together is I think this one: Quote: HE has created the heavens without any pillars that you can see, and HE has placed in the earth firm mountains that it may not quake with you, and HE has spread therein all kinds of creatures; and WE have sent down water from the clouds, and have caused to grow therein of every fine species. S. 31:10 Sher Ali d: 16 Feb 2004 1544 ion: Paris, France So where exactly is the miracle? I certainly can see an error in the koran for once again mountains are said to prevent the earth from quaking. Earthquakes are prevalent in mountainous areas (look at Pakistan). In fact earthquakes and mountains there are produced by the same phenomenon of shifting tectonic plates. You would never guess that from reading the koran...And many flat areas (Holland, the Great Plains) are earthquake-free. So the absence of mountains cannot explain why they do not experience earthquakes. Quote: I will try to translate the aya 31-10 word by word, it dosn't have the word of either mountains or quake, I think it's a midiaval translation again. In Arabic: khalaq alsama beghayr 3amaden tarawnaha waalqua fee alard rawasya an tameed bekom wa bath feeha men kol dabbaten, wanzalna men alsamaa maa2an fanbatna feeha men kol zawjen kareem. The translation is (it's also not the perfect translation also its word by word translation): and he created the heavens without pillars that you can see, and droped on the earth stable (things) (they translated this word as mountains) may sawy with you .... If you want me to searsh for it's modern meaning I will, but I swear to you no mountains or earthquaques are mentiond at all, I'm arabic man. The verse that speak about the mountains paasing like the pass of clouds is: 27:8 http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_26.html Thank you for the reference. The website quotes just one verse (27;8 and then claims tha this is a scientific miracle about continental drift. However, to do what Muslims are always asking us to do, namely, quote verses in context, this is the context of this verse in The Ant: Quote: And (remind them of) the Day when the Trumpet will be blown, and all who are in the heavens and the earth will start in fear, save him whom Allah willeth. And all come unto Him, humbled. 027:088 * URL And thou seest the hills thou deemest solid flying with the flight of clouds: the doing of Allah Who perfecteth all things. Lo! He is Informed of what ye do. 027:089 * URL Whoso bringeth a good deed will have better than its worth; and such are safe from fear that Day. 027:090 * URL And whoso bringeth an ill-deed, such will be flung down on their faces in the Fire. Are ye rewarded aught save what ye did? The koran is talking about THE END OF THE WORLD, about the Day of Judgement and not abo phenomenon that has been around for hundreds of millions of years. In this apocalyptic vision koran says that men will see hills flying past like clouds. If the koran were really talking abou continental drift then we would SEE absolutely nothing. The continents are moving at imperceptible speeds, that can be measured in centimetres per year. Absolutely different to seeing clouds drifting past. What the koran says at least twice about mountains is that they are pegs holding the earth's surface firm. This is just rubbish. And isn't it amazing that a verse is translated (by a Muslim) with the words 'mountain' and 'qu and yet you tell me that these words are not there in the original Arabic. So what are non-ar speakers supposed to believe when Arabic speakers cannot even agree among themselves wh the Koran is saying? In any case there is agreement between my translator and you regarding part of the verse. Quote: and he created the heavens without pillars that you can see, So the heavens are being held up by invisible pillars? Is this supposed to be another 'scientific miracle'? _________________ "Timeo homines unius libri musulmanosque et dona ferentes". Bobius, Collected Works, Volum 19, Chapter 19, p. 1919. to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: mMiracles [quote="bob"] IslamMiracles wrote: bob wrote: Muhamemdmiricales. So why don't you quote the verses? I quoted the verses from the koran to demonstrate that the koran is wrong. So just QUOTE THE VERSES. The only verse that mentions mountains and clouds together is I think this one: Quote: HE has created the heavens without any pillars that you can see, and HE has placed in the earth firm mountains that it may not quake with you, and HE has spread therein all kinds of creatures; and WE have sent down water from the clouds, and have caused to grow therein of d: 09 Feb 2006 89 every fine species. S. 31:10 Sher Ali So where exactly is the miracle? I certainly can see an error in the koran for once again mountains are said to prevent the earth from quaking. Earthquakes are prevalent in mountainous areas (look at Pakistan). In fact earthquakes and mountains there are produced by the same phenomenon of shifting tectonic plates. You would never guess that from reading the koran...And many flat areas (Holland, the Great Plains) are earthquakefree. So the absence of mountains cannot explain why they do not experience earthquakes. Quote: I will try to translate the aya 31-10 word by word, it dosn't have the word of either mountains or quake, I think it's a midiaval translation again. In Arabic: khalaq alsama beghayr 3amaden tarawnaha waalqua fee alard rawasya an tameed bekom wa bath feeha men kol dabbaten, wanzalna men alsamaa maa2an fanbatna feeha men kol zawjen kareem. The translation is (it's also not the perfect translation also its word by word translation): and he created the heavens without pillars that you can see, and droped on the earth stable (things) (they translated this word as mountains) may sawy with you .... If you want me to searsh for it's modern meaning I will, but I swear to you no mountains or earthquaques are mentiond at all, I'm arabic man. The verse that speak about the mountains paasing like the pass of clouds is: 27:8 http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_26.html Thank you for the reference. The website quotes just one verse (27;8 and then claims that this is a scientific miracle about continental drift. However, to do what Muslims are always asking us to do, namely, quote verses in context, this is the context of this verse in The Ant: Quote: And (remind them of) the Day when the Trumpet will be blown, and all who are in the heavens and the earth will start in fear, save him whom Allah willeth. And all come unto Him, humbled. 027:088 * URL And thou seest the hills thou deemest solid flying with the flight of clouds: the doing of Allah Who perfecteth all things. Lo! He is Informed of what ye do. 027:089 * URL Whoso bringeth a good deed will have better than its worth; and such are safe from fear that Day. 027:090 * URL And whoso bringeth an ill-deed, such will be flung down on their faces in the Fire. Are ye rewarded aught save what ye did? The koran is talking about THE END OF THE WORLD, about the Day of Judgement and not about a phenomenon that has been around for hundreds of millions of years. In this apocalyptic vision the koran says that men will see hills flying past like clouds. If the koran were really talking about continental drift then we would SEE absolutely nothing. The continents are moving at imperceptible speeds, that can be measured in centimetres per year. Absolutely different to seeing clouds drifting past. What the koran says at least twice about mountains is that they are pegs holding the earth's surface firm. This is just rubbish. And isn't it amazing that a verse is translated (by a Muslim) with the words 'mountain' and 'quake' and yet you tell me that these words are not there in the original Arabic. So what are non-arabic speakers supposed to believe when Arabic speakers cannot even agree among themselves what the Koran is saying? In any case there is agreement between my translator and you regarding one part of the verse. Quote: and he created the heavens without pillars that you can see, So the heavens are being held up by invisible pillars? Is this supposed to be another 'scientific miracle'? most of these miracles we did notice it but from few years. so could understand the quran better. becouse the old translation depended on the past knolage. for example the Iron Mirac the quoran said (we descended "or sent down" the Iron it have very hardness and benifit for t peoples. In the recent years we could understand why the god saied descended or sent down after the scintests discovered that the Iron is not from the substances of the earth and it cam from the outerspace with shooting stars. So th Iron verses was translated wrongly in the past, sam is the translation you use it's an old translation depends on old knolages back to the topic which is verses 27:89 It's clearly speaks about a phenomena whn the god sa it's the creation of the god who perfected everything he created. so the god is talking about mountain movement and get proud of this creation. The verses before it is 27:88 talking about the mighty of the god in the judjment day, and th verses prior to it sepaks about another subject and miracle also, it says {they didn't see that made the knight to still and the day to see, that is proofs for people who are sure} the mirac the humans best time to sleep is the night as per the last researches, and if you isolated a ra a room away from the sun rays completeley and gave it medicine to sleep continously so the sleeping clock change, the rat after this will gradually sleep again in the night and wake in th day although in the isolated room. The verses before this verses is talking about judjment day 85 You can understand from this that a verses speak about judjment day folowed with a miracle scintefic proof totlly not talking about this day, then folowed with verses talking about judjm day again, then a scintefic fenomina and miracle again which is the mountain movement 88, then again in the verses 89 back to the judjment day. Now do you felt this miracle? We will show them our miracles in the horizons and in theirselves untill they become sure tha it's the truth. Re the translation of the verses 31:10 which i didn't say that it's a miracle. becouse it's not cl I will not only translate it I will give you the source of each word and in what things the arab used it. So you will understand that it can be understood by many ways. the wrld that it can be understood as mountans {Rawasy)it's direct meaning exmpted from th verb dock like the docking of the ships but in plural and object, Becouse docking means to still so it can be understood as the mountains, but it's not a must, becouse arab call the mountains from the far past (jabal) not these object. And if these objects are the mountains then the other word which (an tameeda) It's absolutel have no any direct meaning as earthquake, it's direct meaning is to fall or sway, becouse eart quacke means (Zelzal )and no other word in arabic for earthquake but (Zelzal) so some peopl understand to sway is to fall others says to slide etc. If you don't beleive that it's the word to word translation buy yourself an arabic english dictionarry, and find the earthquake it means (Zelzal) or earth shake (hazza ardeia) Now what are you waiting for to convert to Islam I clarified pure miracles to you and you cou give me a mistake or error. may god guide you, Salam _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: icus You heard him Bob You heard the man - what are you waiting for? You should convert right away to Islam, and abandon your pagan worship of the Moon God. Do you still dance naked at the solstice? - put clothes back on and say your shahada. Because if you still refuse to acknowledge these miracles you will always remain an unbelieve And you will never know the glory of Allah and his Messenger (pbuh). Allahu Akbar _________________ I shall have victory through terror - Mohammed (pbuh) d: 14 Jul 2005 2132 ion: Britain to top Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: dippedes Quote: most of these miracles we did notice it but from few years. so could understand the quran better. becouse the old translation depended on the past knolage. for example the Iron Miracle. Well that sums it up then. If human knowledge progresses we just retranslate the Quran and make it say something different. Thus the Quran effectively becomes the work of thousands o human hands. _________________ To Bee or not to Bee a Madrassite: http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11189&highlight= d: 20 Mar 2004 3719 ion: the Netherlands to top Display posts from previous: All Posts Oldest First Go Faith Freedom International Forum Index -> The Quran and Hadith this topic for replies Jump to: All times are Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 2 of 7 The Quran and Hadith You can post new topics in this You can reply to topics in this You can edit your posts in this You can delete your posts in this You can vote in polls in this Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group FAQ Profile Search Memberlist Usergroups Log out [ IslamMiracles ] You have no new messages miracles of quran are every where Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next Faith Freedom International Forum Index -> The Quran and Hadith View previous topic :: View next topic Author Message Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: The Cat Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 1459 To maintain that the ''Quran is a miracle'', first of all I feel that Muslims have to prove it was indeed written in Heaven by none other than Allah. Since this was proven false by all accounts, the premise falls and shows deceptive. Thus I never even bothered to argue on this topic. Authority can only be accorded to what is authentic, as in my logo. The authenticity of the Quran is both a joke and a yoke to be done with. _________________ Authority has the same etymological root than authenticity. Back to top abuTrevor Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: Qur'an "Miracles" Hello Islammiracles/Mohammedmiracles, Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Shari'aville Quote: The answer is clear hous of the ants for example can protect it from the big animals (not the small insects ofcourse it's not dangerous as the big animals) but the spider house is nothing with the big animals. Somehow, I don't think you understood my questions. Let me try and summarize them for you:1. If the Qur'an is the unaltered word of God, full of hidden scientific miracles, why then are there apparent scientific errors in it, eg. a) Spiders web is described as flimsy when actually spider silk is one of the strongest materials know to man. b) the sun is said to set in "a muddy spring" (see Qur'an 18:83 http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/018.qmt.html#018.086). 2. If 1,500 scientific miracles have already been found in the Qur'an and more are being discovered each day, why didn't Allah include something about the strength of spider silk when he was talking about the spider's web? I hope that's clear enough for you. abuTrevor _________________ Question everything! Back to top abuTrevor Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: Iron Hello IslamMiracles, Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 35 With the 1500 "miracles" in the Qur'an and new ones being discovered all the time, I would have Location: Shari'aville thought that we'd hear something origional from you but, unfortunately, it's the same old nonsense. Quote: the quoran said (we descended "or sent down" the Iron it have very hardness and benifit for the peoples. In the recent years we could understand why the god saied descended or sent down after the scintests discovered that the Iron is not from the substances of the earth and it came from the outerspace with shooting stars. Now, while it is true that all meteorites have some iron in them and some are mainly iron, the iron ore that we dig out of the ground, to smelt into iron and steel, all comes from the same cloud of dust and gas from which the earth and the rest of the solar system was formed. This is a scientific fact. You said: "Iron is not from the substances of the earth." - This is the complete opposite of our current scientific knowledge. The earth's core is mainly iron (see http://www.seismo.unr.edu/ftp/pub/louie/class/100/interior.html). How on earth did all that iron get so far underground if it came from meteorites? In fact, if you took away the earth's iron, there wouldn't be a lot left! Also elsewhere in the Qur'an (39:6) it says that Allah sent down "eight head of cattle in pairs". Now if they had been sent down as meteorites it would have made a nasty mess! The truth is that the scientific knowledge shown in the Qur'an is exactly what you'd expect of 7th centuary arabia. All these supposed miracles are either downright false (as above) or else require mental gymnastics to re-interpret a vague statement in the Qur'an to make it conform in some fashion with science. abuTrevor _________________ Question everything! Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: The Spider mentora wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 gupsfu wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: The answer is clear hous of the ants for example can protect it from the big animals (not the small insects ofcourse it's not dangerous as the big animals) but the spider house is nothing with the big animals. What? I agree.... WHAT!!! The parable cleary indicates that spiders built their web as not only as their home but a foundation on which they stand on. So it indicates that these foundation is the flimsiest (ie: the weakest of all). Therefore it is very fragile. So, in the passage it seems having complete faith in any other god but allah is fragile just as a spider building its house. It's a clear indication that these pasages in the Koran is incorrect. As for answer that IslamMiracle try to give with the ant story is also incorrect because that parable deals with the ability of people able to withstand HUGE challanges as a group and not as an individual. This can only be done if you have the same goal and vision with the others (hence the ants). And this are normaly achieve when you share a common trait (ie: religion). Parables are actually kind of story to reveal an actual meaning in order to convey that message to the mass. You cannot use another parable to justify a previous parable (exception is given if they have the same meaning or trying to deliver the same message). If indeed you do so (use another parable), this prove that the first parable is wrong in the first place (or maybe it's inaccurate). The answer is verry clear The verses gave an exmple of those who take other gods is like the spider who to take his web as hous. the purpose of the hous normally and in this verses is to protect from the ungry of the god, or for the example of the spider to protect it from any animal, is the spider web considered a house (I agree silk is strong) but the spider is exposed tottally to the animal like the exposure of those (who take other gods) to Allah ST. this hous is stupid for protection from animals. and so are those who try to proect thmselves from Allah using other gods. The web of the spider is good for catching insects not for protection. It's not a house, I repeat not a house becouse house is for protection. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Iron abuTrevor wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Hello IslamMiracles, With the 1500 "miracles" in the Qur'an and new ones being discovered all the time, I would have thought that we'd hear something origional from you but, unfortunately, it's the same old nonsense. Quote: the quoran said (we descended "or sent down" the Iron it have very hardness and benifit for the peoples. In the recent years we could understand why the god saied descended or sent down after the scintests discovered that the Iron is not from the substances of the earth and it came from the outerspace with shooting stars. Now, while it is true that all meteorites have some iron in them and some are mainly iron, the iron ore that we dig out of the ground, to smelt into iron and steel, all comes from the same cloud of dust and gas from which the earth and the rest of the solar system was formed. This is a scientific fact. You said: "Iron is not from the substances of the earth." - This is the complete opposite of our current scientific knowledge. The earth's core is mainly iron (see http://www.seismo.unr.edu/ftp/pub/louie/class/100/interior.html). How on earth did all that iron get so far underground if it came from meteorites? In fact, if you took away the earth's iron, there wouldn't be a lot left! Also elsewhere in the Qur'an (39:6) it says that Allah sent down "eight head of cattle in pairs". Now if they had been sent down as meteorites it would have made a nasty mess! The truth is that the scientific knowledge shown in the Qur'an is exactly what you'd expect of 7th centuary arabia. All these supposed miracles are either downright false (as above) or else require mental gymnastics to re-interpret a vague statement in the Qur'an to make it conform in some fashion with science. abuTrevor Not only the iron on earth, but also the iron in the entire Solar System, comes from outer space, since the temperature in the Sun is inadequate for the formation of iron. The sun has a surface temperature of 6,000 degrees Celsius, and a core temperature of approximately 20 million degrees. Iron can only be produced in much larger stars than the Sun, where the temperature reaches a few hundred million degrees. When the amount of iron exceeds a certain level in a star, the star can no longer accommodate it, and it eventually explodes in what is called a "nova" or a "supernova." These explosions make it possible for iron to be given off into space.39 One scientific source provides the following information on this subject: There is also evidence for older supernova events: Enhanced levels of iron-60 in deep-sea sediments have been interpreted as indications that a supernova explosion occurred within 90 light-years of the sun about 5 million years ago. Iron-60 is a radioactive isotope of iron, formed in supernova explosions, which decays with a half life of 1.5 million years. An enhanced presence of this isotope in a geologic layer indicates the recent nucleosynthesis of elements nearby in space and their subsequent transport to the earth (perhaps as part of dust grains).40 Surat al-Hadid is the 57th in the Qur‟an. The numerical value of the word “al-Hadid” in Arabic is 57. The numerical value of “hadid” on its own is 26. As can be seen from the periodic table to the side, 26 is the number of the iron atom. With the verse revealed in Surat al-Hadid Almighty Allah indicates how iron formed, and with the mathematical code contained in the verse He reveals to us a scientific miracle. All this shows that iron did not form on the Earth, but was carried from Supernovas, and was "sent down," as stated in the verse. It is clear that this fact could not have been known in the 7th century, when the Qur'an was revealed. Nevertheless, this fact is related in the Qur'an, the Word of Allah, Who encompasses all things in His infinite knowledge. Astronomy has also revealed that other elements also formed outside the Earth. In the expression "We also sent down iron" in the verse, the word "also" may well be referring to that idea. However, the fact that the verse specifically mentions iron is quite astounding, considering that these discoveries were made at the end of the 20th century. In his book Nature's Destiny, the well-known microbiologist Michael Denton emphasizes the importance of iron: Of all the metals there is none more essential to life than iron. It is the accumulation of iron in the center of a star which triggers a supernova explosion and the subsequent scattering of the vital atoms of life throughout the cosmos. It was the drawing by gravity of iron atoms to the center of the primeval earth that generated the heat which caused the initial chemical differentiation of the earth, the outgassing of the early atmosphere, and ultimately the formation of the hydrosphere. It is molten iron in the center of the earth which, acting like a gigantic dynamo, generates the earth's magnetic field, which in turn creates the Van Allen radiation belts that shield the earth's surface from destructive high-energy-penetrating cosmic radiation and preserve the crucial ozone layer from cosmic ray destruction… Without the iron atom, there would be no carbon-based life in the cosmos; no supernovae, no heating of the primitive earth, no atmosphere or hydrosphere. There would be no protective magnetic field, no Van Allen radiation belts, no ozone layer, no metal to make hemoglobin [in human blood], no metal to tame the reactivity of oxygen, and no oxidative metabolism. The intriguing and intimate relationship between life and iron, between the red color of blood and the dying of some distant star, not only indicates the relevance of metals to biology but also the biocentricity of the cosmos…41 This account clearly indicates the importance of the iron atom. The fact that particular attention is drawn to iron in the Qur'an also emphasises the importance of the element. In addition, there is another hidden truth in the Qur'an which draws attention to the importance of iron: Surat alHadid 25, which refers to iron, contains two rather interesting mathematical codes. "Al- Hadid" is the 57th sura in the Qur'an. The abjad of the word "Al-Hadid" in Arabic, when the numerological values of its letters are added up, is also 57. (For abjad calculations see the section on Numerological Calculations (Abjad) in the Qur'an.) The numerological value of the word "hadid" alone is 26. And 26 is the atomic number of iron. Moreover, iron oxide particles were used in a cancer treatment in recent months and positive developments were observed. A team led by Dr. Andreas Jordan, at the world famous Charité Hospital in Germany, succeeded in destroying cancer cells with this new technique developed for the treatment of cancer-magnetic fluid hyperthermia (high temperature magnetic liquid). As a result of this technique, first performed on the 26-year-old Nikolaus H., no new cancer cells were observed in the patient in the following three months. This method of treatment can be summarised as follows: 1. A liquid containing iron oxide particles is injected into the tumour by means of a special syringe. These particles spread throughout the tumour cells. This liquid consists of thousands of millions of particles, 1,000 times smaller than the red blood corpuscles, of iron oxide in 1 cm3 that can easily flow through all blood vessels.42 2. The patient is then placed in a machine with a powerful magnetic field. 3. This magnetic field, applied externally, begins to set the iron particles in the tumour in motion. During this time the temperature in the tumour containing the iron oxide particles rises by up to 45 degrees. In a few minutes the cancer cells, unable to protect themselves from the heat, are either weakened or destroyed. The tumour may then be completely eradicated with subsequent chemotherapy.43 In this treatment it is only the cancer cells that are affected by the magnetic field, since only they contain the iron oxide particles. The spread of this technique is a major development in the treatment of this potentially lethal disease. In the treatment of such a widespread disease as cancer, the use of the expression "iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind" (Qur'an, 57:25) in the Qur'an is particularly noteworthy. Indeed, in that verse, the Qur'an may be indicating the benefits of iron for human health. (Allah knows best.) 38. Kazi, 130 Evident Miracles in the Qur‟an, 110-111; and www.wamy.co.uk/announcements3.html, from Prof. Zighloul Raghib El-Naggar‟s speech 39. Ibid. 40. Priscilla Frisch, “The Galactic Environment of the Sun,” American Scientist, January-February 2000, www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/21173?fulltext=true. 41. Michael J. Denton, Nature‟s Destiny (The Free Press: 1998), 198. 42. www.inm-gmbh.de/cgi-bin/frame/frameloader.pl?sprache=en&url=http://www.inmgmbh.de/htdocs/technologien/highlights/highlights_en.htm. 43. "Nanotechnology successfully helps cancer therapies," IIC Fast Track, Nanotech News from Eastern Germany, Industrial Investment Council, October 2003; www.iic.de/uploads/media/NANO_FT_Nov2003_01.pdf _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Iron abuTrevor wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Hello IslamMiracles, With the 1500 "miracles" in the Qur'an and new ones being discovered all the time, I would have thought that we'd hear something origional from you but, unfortunately, it's the same old nonsense. Quote: the quoran said (we descended "or sent down" the Iron it have very hardness and benifit for the peoples. In the recent years we could understand why the god saied descended or sent down after the scintests discovered that the Iron is not from the substances of the earth and it came from the outerspace with shooting stars. Now, while it is true that all meteorites have some iron in them and some are mainly iron, the iron ore that we dig out of the ground, to smelt into iron and steel, all comes from the same cloud of dust and gas from which the earth and the rest of the solar system was formed. This is a scientific fact. You said: "Iron is not from the substances of the earth." - This is the complete opposite of our current scientific knowledge. The earth's core is mainly iron (see http://www.seismo.unr.edu/ftp/pub/louie/class/100/interior.html). How on earth did all that iron get so far underground if it came from meteorites? In fact, if you took away the earth's iron, there wouldn't be a lot left! Also elsewhere in the Qur'an (39:6) it says that Allah sent down "eight head of cattle in pairs". Now if they had been sent down as meteorites it would have made a nasty mess! The truth is that the scientific knowledge shown in the Qur'an is exactly what you'd expect of 7th centuary arabia. All these supposed miracles are either downright false (as above) or else require mental gymnastics to re-interpret a vague statement in the Qur'an to make it conform in some fashion with science. abuTrevor Not only the iron on earth, but also the iron in the entire Solar System, comes from outer space, since the temperature in the Sun is inadequate for the formation of iron. The sun has a surface temperature of 6,000 degrees Celsius, and a core temperature of approximately 20 million degrees. Iron can only be produced in much larger stars than the Sun, where the temperature reaches a few hundred million degrees. When the amount of iron exceeds a certain level in a star, the star can no longer accommodate it, and it eventually explodes in what is called a "nova" or a "supernova." These explosions make it possible for iron to be given off into space.39 One scientific source provides the following information on this subject: There is also evidence for older supernova events: Enhanced levels of iron-60 in deep-sea sediments have been interpreted as indications that a supernova explosion occurred within 90 light-years of the sun about 5 million years ago. Iron-60 is a radioactive isotope of iron, formed in supernova explosions, which decays with a half life of 1.5 million years. An enhanced presence of this isotope in a geologic layer indicates the recent nucleosynthesis of elements nearby in space and their subsequent transport to the earth (perhaps as part of dust grains).40 Surat al-Hadid is the 57th in the Qur‟an. The numerical value of the word “al-Hadid” in Arabic is 57. The numerical value of “hadid” on its own is 26. As can be seen from the periodic table to the side, 26 is the number of the iron atom. With the verse revealed in Surat al-Hadid Almighty Allah indicates how iron formed, and with the mathematical code contained in the verse He reveals to us a scientific miracle. All this shows that iron did not form on the Earth, but was carried from Supernovas, and was "sent down," as stated in the verse. It is clear that this fact could not have been known in the 7th century, when the Qur'an was revealed. Nevertheless, this fact is related in the Qur'an, the Word of Allah, Who encompasses all things in His infinite knowledge. Astronomy has also revealed that other elements also formed outside the Earth. In the expression "We also sent down iron" in the verse, the word "also" may well be referring to that idea. However, the fact that the verse specifically mentions iron is quite astounding, considering that these discoveries were made at the end of the 20th century. In his book Nature's Destiny, the well-known microbiologist Michael Denton emphasizes the importance of iron: Of all the metals there is none more essential to life than iron. It is the accumulation of iron in the center of a star which triggers a supernova explosion and the subsequent scattering of the vital atoms of life throughout the cosmos. It was the drawing by gravity of iron atoms to the center of the primeval earth that generated the heat which caused the initial chemical differentiation of the earth, the outgassing of the early atmosphere, and ultimately the formation of the hydrosphere. It is molten iron in the center of the earth which, acting like a gigantic dynamo, generates the earth's magnetic field, which in turn creates the Van Allen radiation belts that shield the earth's surface from destructive high-energy-penetrating cosmic radiation and preserve the crucial ozone layer from cosmic ray destruction… Without the iron atom, there would be no carbon-based life in the cosmos; no supernovae, no heating of the primitive earth, no atmosphere or hydrosphere. There would be no protective magnetic field, no Van Allen radiation belts, no ozone layer, no metal to make hemoglobin [in human blood], no metal to tame the reactivity of oxygen, and no oxidative metabolism. The intriguing and intimate relationship between life and iron, between the red color of blood and the dying of some distant star, not only indicates the relevance of metals to biology but also the biocentricity of the cosmos…41 This account clearly indicates the importance of the iron atom. The fact that particular attention is drawn to iron in the Qur'an also emphasises the importance of the element. In addition, there is another hidden truth in the Qur'an which draws attention to the importance of iron: Surat alHadid 25, which refers to iron, contains two rather interesting mathematical codes. "Al- Hadid" is the 57th sura in the Qur'an. The abjad of the word "Al-Hadid" in Arabic, when the numerological values of its letters are added up, is also 57. (For abjad calculations see the section on Numerological Calculations (Abjad) in the Qur'an.) The numerological value of the word "hadid" alone is 26. And 26 is the atomic number of iron. Moreover, iron oxide particles were used in a cancer treatment in recent months and positive developments were observed. A team led by Dr. Andreas Jordan, at the world famous Charité Hospital in Germany, succeeded in destroying cancer cells with this new technique developed for the treatment of cancer-magnetic fluid hyperthermia (high temperature magnetic liquid). As a result of this technique, first performed on the 26-year-old Nikolaus H., no new cancer cells were observed in the patient in the following three months. This method of treatment can be summarised as follows: 1. A liquid containing iron oxide particles is injected into the tumour by means of a special syringe. These particles spread throughout the tumour cells. This liquid consists of thousands of millions of particles, 1,000 times smaller than the red blood corpuscles, of iron oxide in 1 cm3 that can easily flow through all blood vessels.42 2. The patient is then placed in a machine with a powerful magnetic field. 3. This magnetic field, applied externally, begins to set the iron particles in the tumour in motion. During this time the temperature in the tumour containing the iron oxide particles rises by up to 45 degrees. In a few minutes the cancer cells, unable to protect themselves from the heat, are either weakened or destroyed. The tumour may then be completely eradicated with subsequent chemotherapy.43 In this treatment it is only the cancer cells that are affected by the magnetic field, since only they contain the iron oxide particles. The spread of this technique is a major development in the treatment of this potentially lethal disease. In the treatment of such a widespread disease as cancer, the use of the expression "iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind" (Qur'an, 57:25) in the Qur'an is particularly noteworthy. Indeed, in that verse, the Qur'an may be indicating the benefits of iron for human health. (Allah knows best.) 38. Kazi, 130 Evident Miracles in the Qur‟an, 110-111; and www.wamy.co.uk/announcements3.html, from Prof. Zighloul Raghib El-Naggar‟s speech 39. Ibid. 40. Priscilla Frisch, “The Galactic Environment of the Sun,” American Scientist, January-February 2000, www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/21173?fulltext=true. 41. Michael J. Denton, Nature‟s Destiny (The Free Press: 1998), 198. 42. www.inm-gmbh.de/cgi-bin/frame/frameloader.pl?sprache=en&url=http://www.inmgmbh.de/htdocs/technologien/highlights/highlights_en.htm. 43. "Nanotechnology successfully helps cancer therapies," IIC Fast Track, Nanotech News from Eastern Germany, Industrial Investment Council, October 2003; www.iic.de/uploads/media/NANO_FT_Nov2003_01.pdf _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top gupsfu Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: The Spider IslamMiracles wrote: .... and so are those who try to proect thmselves from Allah using other gods. I agree. Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 6498 Location: none of your business The idea of "protecting" oneself from an imaginary god is a clear sign of schizophrenia. _________________ _________________ Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: wachamalit wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Interesting that this Muslim dodged the stars missles to shoot djinn "miracle". The scinces exist in Quran is not only the aaparant scince but also the hidden scinces or u call it speritual scinces. We are here in this topic to discuss the apparant and clear scintefic scinces as proof that the quran is miracle, Then after you will get convinced like others did, you will beleive in the other informations which is not known by the phisical earth scinces. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Quote: and he created the heavens without pillars that you can see, So the heavens are being held up by invisible pillars? Is this supposed to be another 'scientific miracle'?[/quote] Yes you reminded me with this Miracle : Sorry I for the delay I didn't notice this quote. 1. The heavens are suspended without any pillar to be seen. The astronomers say that centripetal force and the force of gravity determine the motions of the heavenly bodies. These forces are the determining factors behind the positions of the heavenly bodies, not physical pillars. Is there is any other questions? The miracles we dicussed now are more than 5 no body could say till now that they are not Miracles. Do you wan't more miracles to Discuss? _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: The Spider gupsfu wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 IslamMiracles wrote: .... and so are those who try to proect thmselves from Allah using other gods. I agree. The idea of "protecting" oneself from an imaginary god is a clear sign of schizophrenia. Immaginary? after those Miracles we discussed, you can see them by the eye and touch it, Haw Immaginnery. No body could say now that the mentioned 6 Miracles in this forum are not miracles. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top gupsfu Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: IslamMiracles wrote: We are here in this topic to discuss the apparant and clear scintefic scinces as proof that the quran is miracle, Then after you will get convinced like others did, you will beleive in the other informations which is not known by the phisical earth scinces. Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 6498 Location: none of your business I do not wish to disappoint you, Muslim, but people of this forum aren't nearly as stupid and gullible as those "others" you mentioned. _________________ _________________ Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: The Spider gupsfu wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 IslamMiracles wrote: .... and so are those who try to proect thmselves from Allah using other gods. I agree. The idea of "protecting" oneself from an imaginary god is a clear sign of schizophrenia. Immaginary? after those Miracles we discussed, you can see them by the eye and touch it, Haw Immaginnery. No body could say now that the mentioned 6 Miracles in this forum are not miracles. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top gupsfu Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: The Spider IslamMiracles wrote: No body could say now that the mentioned 6 Miracles in this forum are not miracles. You're the one who's dumb enough to call them miracles, not us. _________________ Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 6498 Location: none of your business _________________ Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject: Agaricus wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 You heard him Bob You heard the man - what are you waiting for? You should convert right away to Islam, and abandon your pagan worship of the Moon God. Do you still dance naked at the solstice? put your clothes back on and say your shahada. Because if you still refuse to acknowledge these miracles you will always remain an unbeliever. And you will never know the glory of Allah and his Messenger (pbuh). Allahu Akbar After the god let you know the truth and you sow the Miracles and you insist to denay the god and regect his message. so why he will mercy you. I don't know _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top abuTrevor Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: Iron Hello Islammiracles, Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Shari'aville You may be able to fool some people by pasting vast irrelevant tracts of somebody else's work, but I and others here have had some scientific training. For all the waffle, you still haven't answered my post. You said:Quote: the quoran said (we descended "or sent down" the Iron it have very hardness and benifit for the peoples. In the recent years we could understand why the god saied descended or sent down after the scintests discovered that the Iron is not from the substances of the earth and it came from the outerspace with shooting stars. It is, however, a scientific fact that the iron in the earth's crust, mantle and core came from the same cloud of gas and dust as the rest of the material that makes up the earth. This is a scientific fact. Are you claiming that the Qur'an says that all (or any significant amount) of the earth's iron was sent down as meteorites after the rest of the earthy was formed? If you are, then the Qur'an is contradicted by our current scientific knowledge. AbuTrevor _________________ Question everything! Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts Oldest First Go Faith Freedom International Forum Index -> The Quran and Hadith Page 3 of 7 Watch this topic for replies Jump to: All times are GMT Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next The Quran and Hadith Go You can post new topics in this forum You can reply to topics in this forum You can edit your posts in this forum You can delete your posts in this forum You can vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group View previous topic :: View next topic Author Message Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:07 pm Post subject: IslamMiracles Phedippedes wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Quote: most of these miracles we did notice it but from few years. so could understand the quran better. becouse the old translation depended on the past knolage. fo example the Iron Miracle. Well that sums it up then. If human knowledge progresses we just retranslate the Quran and make it say something different. Thus the Quran effectively becomes work of thousands of human hands. the scintefic Miracles is not to show the progress in scince, The miracles exist in the no in the quran, when the god say a sentence in quran that contain a fenomena (becose h and gods don't do mistakes) he mention the definitions in it's right way and with the rig composition, for example: (we created the heavens without pillars that you can see) if say (that you can see) there will be a mistake which is the modern scince says there is pillars. The heavens are suspended without any pillar to be seen. The astronomers say that centripetal force and the force of gravity determine the motions heavenly bodies. These forces are the determining factors behind the positions of the bodies, not physical pillars. The aim of the verses is to make the litener feels the greatness of the god as he create heavens like this. The quran is shortened as much as possible, it's to learn us the concipts that build the personality and give us all the basics and examples, of course we learned alot earth sc quran and mohammed, that can protect us from any eivel or sickness that may face th being, and the life of the messenger is full as he was an example of all the situations t human may be in. as he leived all the situations. Any way I can't afford time to talk about many topics in the same time. Lets speak onl Miracles. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: The Cat wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 To maintain that the ''Quran is a miracle'', first of all I feel that Muslims have to prov was indeed written in Heaven by none other than Allah. Since this was proven false b accounts, the premise falls and shows deceptive. Thus I never even bothered to argu this topic. Authority can only be accorded to what is authentic, as in my logo. The authenticity Quran is both a joke and a yoke to be done with. what do u mean by authority? Is there speach and system are descended from heavens humans like you. Any way if you continued waching this forum, I will show you that my proofs are not to Thanks to god I could answer all quotes with complete answers. The problem Is time , one by one notice the dates and times _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top goedels_paradox Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject: Islam miracles this is your 57:25 Quote: Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Posts: 402 57:25. Indeed We have sent Our Messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with the Scripture and the Balance (justice) that mankind may keep up justice. And We broug forth iron wherein is mighty power (in matters of war[1]), as well as many benefi mankind, that Allâh may test who it is that will help Him (His religion) and His Messe in the unseen. Verily, Allâh is All-Strong, All-Mighty. Where is there a miracle in this verse O psuedo scientist. The usage of Iron was known since 4000BC. Iron was used in warfare by the Romans and countless other civilizations Mohammed. The use of iron implements in agriculture and tool was also known since w Mohammed. Your Charlatan Mohammed existed in the 7 th century AD. The verse abov acknowledeges a fact O dumbo psuedo scientist. What stupidity you express by suggest the verse above suggests a supernova explosion You say: Quote: Not only the iron on earth, but also the iron in the entire Solar System, comes from o space, since the temperature in the Sun is inadequate for the formation of iron. The has a surface temperature of 6,000 degrees Celsius, and a core temperature of approximately 20 million degrees. Iron can only be produced in much larger stars tha Sun, where the temperature reaches a few hundred million degrees. When the amou iron exceeds a certain level in a star, the star can no longer accommodate it, and it eventually explodes in what is called a "nova" or a "supernova." These explosions mak possible for iron to be given off into space.39 Of course all this is true. But to connect this with verse 57:25 you and your mullahs ha shown how dumb you are for the whole world to see. Your half baked pseudo science i interest to anyone. Do you have any idea what the scientists mean when they say that from supernova explosions? What are your qualifications may I ask you O psuedo scient Dumbo, psuedo scientist, OUR sun itself has been hypothsized to be a second generatio That is the whole solar system has been suggested to be have been formed from the re an old supernova explosion. That means O dumbo psuedo scientist all other elements iron have their source in that supernova explosion. If Quran suggests that ONLY IRO from outside then QURAN is a FAKE. ALL the elements of this earth and what we are of comes from that supernova explosion. You also say the following Quote: Enhanced levels of iron-60 in deep-sea sediments have been interpreted as indication a supernova explosion occurred within 90 light-years of the sun about 5 million years Iron-60 is a radioactive isotope of iron, formed in supernova explosions, which decay a half life of 1.5 million years. Iron is the most abundant element on the earth. It accounts for over 30 percent of ma earth. Are you suggesting that 30 percent of mass of earth came from a separate even formation of the earth through a supernova explosion? So may I ask you, psuedo scient come there was life on earth before 1.5 million years back. For surely you require iron heamoglobin. Suggesting that 30 percent of mass of earth that is iron now come from t supernova explostion 1.5 million years back is the biggest stupidities you will encounte science. O dumbo psuedo scientist, do you have any idea how much of a cataclysmic sh going be if earth added 30 percent of its mass in one go? You also say: Quote: All this shows that iron did not form on the Earth, but was carried from Supernovas, was "sent down," as stated in the verse. It is clear that this fact could not have been known in the 7th century, when the Qur'an was revealed. Nevertheless, this fact is re in the Qur'an, the Word of Allah, Who encompasses all things in His infinite knowledg Pure horse sh!t. Read my what I wrote beofre. Not just iron, all the elements of this so come from the supernova explosion. If Quran suggests only Iron came from supernova e then it is FAKE. All these miracles in Quran are bogus. Just like how the hindus have even more miracu claims. Your Quranic science miralces is nothing compared to the miracles that Hindus Proof that Hindus (idol worshippers) knew about modern science before even Mohamm alone Newton Einstein, Bohr, Heisenberg) http://www.gosai.com/science/ http://www.mvoai.org/04_uf.html http://www.hindunet.org/srh_home/1996_7/msg00171.html http://www.flonnet.com/fl2219/stories/20050923002109200.htm http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/ http://www.eclectica.org/v3n4/gaborro.html http://www.maharishi-india.org/institutions/i3/vedic_science.html Charlatans like YOU, abound in this world. Whose only goal is to fool people. Why am I replying to you geesh. Quote: So dont even sound consistent with what you are talkin ab The numerological value of the word "hadid" alone is 26. And 26 is the atomic numbe iron. Moreover, iron oxide particles**** Iron is used for this, yayadayadayada iron is used for that,yayadayadayada iron is used here yayadayadayada Iron is the single most important element known to man. . (Allah knows best.) What bull, did you know if Carbon did not exist, life could not exist? If oxygen did not could not exist? If nitrogen did not exist life cannot exist? Iron is present even on Moon Sun, even on mercury, yet there is no life there??? _________________ There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth Back to top gupsfu Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject: IslamMiracles wrote: Thanks to god I could answer all quotes with complete answers. But no thanks to god that none of your so-called "complete answers" makes any sense. _________________ Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 6517 Location: NoYFB _________________ Back to top wachamalit Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: IslamMiracles wrote: Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 1216 Location: Somewhere. wachamalit wrote: Interesting that this Muslim dodged the stars missles to shoot djinn "miracle". The scinces exist in Quran is not only the aaparant scince but also the hidden sci or u call it speritual scinces. We are here in this topic to discuss the apparant and clear scintefic scinces as pr that the quran is miracle, Then after you will get convinced like others did, you beleive in the other informations which is not known by the phisical earth scince Sure spiritual science. Excuse to justify the erroneus. You seem to focus on the jinns n stars which is the actual subject of the verse. Your question dodging techniques won't on us ex-Muslims here. Is star a spiritual object or a physical object?Should I also add further that they are loc lowest layer of the sky in the Quran? Stars move due to gravity from other massive objects such as other stars, black holes a their own planets. They are not located at the atmosphere but million of kilometres aw space. Can you somehow prove me wrong here using the Quran? _________________ Bob: Why is that guy marrying a nine-year old? Jimmy:Err...he's a Muslim. Bob: I see... Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: Qur'an "Miracles" abuTrevor wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Hello Islammiracles/Mohammedmiracles, Quote: The answer is clear hous of the ants for example can protect it from the big animals (not the small insects ofcourse it's not dangerous as the big animals) bu the spider house is nothing with the big animals. Somehow, I don't think you understood my questions. Let me try and summarize for you:- 1. If the Qur'an is the unaltered word of God, full of hidden scientific miracles, w then are there apparent scientific errors in it, eg. a) Spiders web is described as flimsy when actually spider silk is one of the stron materials know to man. b) the sun is said to set in "a muddy spring" (see Qur'an 18:83 http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/018.qmt.html#018.086). 2. If 1,500 scientific miracles have already been found in the Qur'an and more ar being discovered each day, why didn't Allah include something about the strengt spider silk when he was talking about the spider's web? I hope that's clear enough for you. abuTrevor I will repeat the answe re the Hous of spider (house not web) as the verses concerned Housing not the material of the web. The answer is verry clear The verses gave an exmple of those who take other gods is li spider who to take his web as hous. the purpose of the hous normally and in this verse protect from the ungry of the god, or for the example of the spider to protect it from is the spider web considered a house (I agree silk is strong) but the spider is exposed t the animal or any big creature like the exposure of those (who take other gods) to Alla house is stupid for protection from animals. and so are those who try to proect thmsel Allah using other gods. It's hardly can be used as hous it's most exposed house in the w Re the (sun and Muddy spring) The verses speak about the west way and the apparant west not speaking about a stup and says that the sun sets in a muddy spring like the western translators did. In the time of the messenger the known end to west was the atlantic oceion, The city messenger leived in was a city of trade (Mekka) and they had maps for the trade, and messenger himself went on trade long trips and it's known in the Mekka trade society t of the west is the atlantic oceion. So how do u beleive those western translators. there is no mud in the atlantic oceon a know that, the verses says it's the end of his jeurny to west in the place of Zulquarnain mud spring, where he find people.... If the arabic men said we will go to the west or sombody will go to the west that will m arabic to go to Morrocco which exist at the far west of north africa, this is the place kn word west (maghreb) in that time, so whn arab want to say to go to end of west they s the set of the sun to difranchiate it from saing Morocco or west. The proof also of what I said is morooco in arabic is maghreb and maghreb is west, this called for morrocco becouse it's known by arab as the end of the west before the time Mohammed SWS. So Mohammed and arabs knows that the end of the apparant west is morroco which is mud and the ocein can be caled mudspring. s Another proof. The spring can easily go arround it becouse it's small and you see the la other side so how sombody sow the sun get inside a spring they better say insid sea no spring. becouse all the people who folowed the sun set they sow in get inside the atlan including arabs. The midiaval translation of shakir mentioned in the linke u gave me says it's black sea openion in the mediaval time, the word says a muddy spring (Ain Hameaa). The earth is like a ball in quran it's very clear when the god said we are balling the day night and we are balling the night into the day. is there is any other meaning for this c sentence. it discribe the shap and motion in the same time. not only that the quran sa earth is not a perfect ball and it's shorter from it's both sides (north and south) _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top goedels_paradox Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:29 pm Post subject: Quote: ocein can be caled mudspring Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Posts: 402 Pearl of Islamic wisdom and science!!! _________________ There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Iron abuTrevor wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Hello Islammiracles, You may be able to fool some people by pasting vast irrelevant tracts of somebody e work, but I and others here have had some scientific training. For all the waffle, you haven't answered my post. You said:Quote: the quoran said (we descended "or sent down" the Iron it have very hardness and benifit for the peoples. In the recent years we could understand why the god saied descended or sent down after the scintests discovered that the Iron is not from the substances of the earth and it came from the outerspace with shooting stars. It is, however, a scientific fact that the iron in the earth's crust, mantle and core came from the same cloud of gas and dust as the rest of the material that makes the earth. This is a scientific fact. Are you claiming that the Qur'an says that all (or any significant amount) of the e iron was sent down as meteorites after the rest of the earthy was formed? If you then the Qur'an is contradicted by our current scientific knowledge. AbuTrevor I fully answered your quote, chek the answers, again. Not only the iron on earth, but also the iron in the entire Solar System, comes from ou since the temperature in the Sun is inadequate for the formation of iron. The sun has a temperature of 6,000 degrees Celsius, and a core temperature of approximately 20 mi degrees. Iron can only be produced in much larger stars than the Sun, where the temp reaches a few hundred million degrees. When the amount of iron exceeds a certain lev the star can no longer accommodate it, and it eventually explodes in what is called a " "supernova." These explosions make it possible for iron to be given off into space.39 One scientific source provides the following information on this subject: There is also evidence for older supernova events: Enhanced levels of iron-60 in deepsediments have been interpreted as indications that a supernova explosion occurred w light-years of the sun about 5 million years ago. Iron-60 is a radioactive isotope of iron supernova explosions, which decays with a half life of 1.5 million years. An enhanced p this isotope in a geologic layer indicates the recent nucleosynthesis of elements nearb and their subsequent transport to the earth (perhaps as part of dust grains).40 Surat al-Hadid is the 57th in the Qur‟an. The numerical value of the word “al-Hadid” i 57. The numerical value of “hadid” on its own is 26. As can be seen from the periodic side, 26 is the number of the iron atom. With the verse revealed in Surat al-Hadid Alm indicates how iron formed, and with the mathematical code contained in the verse He us a scientific miracle. All this shows that iron did not form on the Earth, but was carried from Supernovas, an down," as stated in the verse. It is clear that this fact could not have been known in th century, when the Qur'an was revealed. Nevertheless, this fact is related in the Qur'an of Allah, Who encompasses all things in His infinite knowledge. Astronomy has also revealed that other elements also formed outside the Earth. In the "We also sent down iron" in the verse, the word "also" may well be referring to that ide However, the fact that the verse specifically mentions iron is quite astounding, consid these discoveries were made at the end of the 20th century. In his book Nature's Desti well-known microbiologist Michael Denton emphasizes the importance of iron: Of all the metals there is none more essential to life than iron. It is the accumulation o the center of a star which triggers a supernova explosion and the subsequent scatterin vital atoms of life throughout the cosmos. It was the drawing by gravity of iron atoms center of the primeval earth that generated the heat which caused the initial chemica differentiation of the earth, the outgassing of the early atmosphere, and ultimately th of the hydrosphere. It is molten iron in the center of the earth which, acting like a gig dynamo, generates the earth's magnetic field, which in turn creates the Van Allen radi that shield the earth's surface from destructive high-energy-penetrating cosmic radiati preserve the crucial ozone layer from cosmic ray destruction… Without the iron atom, there would be no carbon-based life in the cosmos; no superno heating of the primitive earth, no atmosphere or hydrosphere. There would be no prot magnetic field, no Van Allen radiation belts, no ozone layer, no metal to make hemogl human blood], no metal to tame the reactivity of oxygen, and no oxidative metabolism The intriguing and intimate relationship between life and iron, between the red color and the dying of some distant star, not only indicates the relevance of metals to biolog the biocentricity of the cosmos…41 This account clearly indicates the importance of the iron atom. The fact that particula is drawn to iron in the Qur'an also emphasises the importance of the element. In addit another hidden truth in the Qur'an which draws attention to the importance of iron: Su Hadid 25, which refers to iron, contains two rather interesting mathematical codes. "Al- Hadid" is the 57th sura in the Qur'an. The abjad of the word "Al-Hadid" in Arabic, w numerological values of its letters are added up, is also 57. (For abjad calculations see section on Numerological Calculations (Abjad) in the Qur'an.) The numerological value of the word "hadid" alone is 26. And 26 is the atomic number Moreover, iron oxide particles were used in a cancer treatment in recent months and p developments were observed. A team led by Dr. Andreas Jordan, at the world famous Hospital in Germany, succeeded in destroying cancer cells with this new technique dev the treatment of cancer-magnetic fluid hyperthermia (high temperature magnetic liqu result of this technique, first performed on the 26-year-old Nikolaus H., no new cance observed in the patient in the following three months. This method of treatment can be summarised as follows: 1. A liquid containing iron oxide particles is injected into the tumour by means of a sp syringe. These particles spread throughout the tumour cells. This liquid consists of tho millions of particles, 1,000 times smaller than the red blood corpuscles, of iron oxide i that can easily flow through all blood vessels.42 2. The patient is then placed in a machine with a powerful magnetic field. 3. This magnetic field, applied externally, begins to set the iron particles in the tumou motion. During this time the temperature in the tumour containing the iron oxide part by up to 45 degrees. In a few minutes the cancer cells, unable to protect themselves from the heat, are eit weakened or destroyed. The tumour may then be completely eradicated with subsequ chemotherapy.43 In this treatment it is only the cancer cells that are affected by the magnetic field, sin they contain the iron oxide particles. The spread of this technique is a major developm treatment of this potentially lethal disease. In the treatment of such a widespread dis cancer, the use of the expression "iron in which there lies great force and which has m for mankind" (Qur'an, 57:25) in the Qur'an is particularly noteworthy. Indeed, in that v Qur'an may be indicating the benefits of iron for human health. (Allah knows best.) 38. Kazi, 130 Evident Miracles in the Qur‟an, 110-111; and www.wamy.co.uk/announcements3.html, from Prof. Zighloul Raghib El-Naggar‟s speec 39. Ibid. 40. Priscilla Frisch, “The Galactic Environment of the Sun,” American Scientist, Januar 2000, www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/21173?fulltext=true. 41. Michael J. Denton, Nature‟s Destiny (The Free Press: 1998), 198. 42. www.inm-gmbh.de/cgi-bin/frame/frameloader.pl?sprache=en&url=http://www.in gmbh.de/htdocs/technologien/highlights/highlights_en.htm. 43. "Nanotechnology successfully helps cancer therapies," IIC Fast Track, Nanotech New Eastern Germany, Industrial Investment Council, October 2003; www.iic.de/uploads/media/NANO_FT_Nov2003_01.pdf _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top goedels_paradox Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: Quote: The earth is like a ball in quran it's very clear when the god said we are balling the d into the night and we are balling the night into the day. is there is any other meani this clear sentence. it discribe the shap and motion in the same time. not only that quran said that the earth is not a perfect ball and it's shorter from it's both sides (nor and south) Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Posts: 402 Yes, and that is your mohammed thought that earth was the center of this universe an planets and sun revolved around it. All this is the discreditted Ptolemaic system, wher interestingly the Greeks believed that there are seven heavens, just like how mohamm The day balls around the earth converts into night and night balls around to convert in Notice no where does Mohammed mention Earth balls to get day into night. Yet he cla balls into night. Just like how the Greeks thought. Your Mohammed thought that the stars were like lamps hanging from the lowest heave uses them to drive away jinns. What a fake prophet is he?? _________________ There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth Back to top allahuackbar Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: miracles of quran are every where allahuackbar wrote: Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 19 Mohammadmericales wrote: as every body know No human made a book without mistakes Hmm, do we? Prove it? I have shelves full of books without mistakes. Apologies for quoting myself, must be the narcissist in me However I do feel members have missed an important point here, and are perhaps tryi to prove their own intellect/knowledge... This is not needed at all... I have shelves full of books without mistakes, none of them claiming to be divine... Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:55 pm Post subject: goedels_paradox wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Islam miracles this is your 57:25 Quote: 57:25. Indeed We have sent Our Messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance (justice) that mankind may keep up justice. And We brought forth iron wherein is mighty power (in matters of war[1]), as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allâh may test who it is that will help Him (His religion) and His Messengers in the unseen. Verily, Allâh is All-Strong, All-Mighty. Where is there a miracle in this verse O psuedo scientist. The usage of Iron was k to mankind since 4000BC. Iron was used in warfare by the Romans and countless civilizations before Mohammed. The use of iron implements in agriculture and to was also known since way before Mohammed. Your Charlatan Mohammed existed the 7 th century AD. The verse above just acknowledeges a fact O dumbo psuedo scientist. What stupidity you express by suggesting that the verse above suggests supernova explosion You say: Quote: Not only the iron on earth, but also the iron in the entire Solar System, comes from outer space, since the temperature in the Sun is inadequate for the formation of iron. The sun has a surface temperature of 6,000 degrees Celsius, and a core temperature of approximately 20 million degrees. Iron can only be produced in much larger stars than the Sun, where the temperature reaches a few hundred million degrees. When the amount of iron exceeds a certain level in a star, the star can no longer accommodate it, and it eventually explodes in what is called a "nova" or a "supernova." These explosions make it possible for iron to be given off into space.39 Of course all this is true. But to connect this with verse 57:25 you and your mulla have just shown how dumb you are for the whole world to see. Your half baked p science is of no interest to anyone. Do you have any idea what the scientists mea when they say that Iron comes from supernova explosions? What are your qualifications may I ask you O psuedo scientist? Dumbo, psuedo scientist, OUR sun itself has been hypothsized to be a second generation star. That is the whole solar system has been suggested to be have be formed from the remnants of an old supernova explosion. That means O dumbo p scientist all other elements not just iron have their source in that supernova explosion. If Quran suggests that ONLY IRON comes from outside then QURAN i FAKE. ALL the elements of this earth and what we are composed of comes from supernova explosion. You also say the following Quote: Enhanced levels of iron-60 in deep-sea sediments have been interpreted as indications that a supernova explosion occurred within 90 light-years of the sun about 5 million years ago. Iron-60 is a radioactive isotope of iron, formed in supernova explosions, which decays with a half life of 1.5 million years. Iron is the most abundant element on the earth. It accounts for over 30 percent mass of this earth. Are you suggesting that 30 percent of mass of earth came from separate event after the formation of the earth through a supernova explosion? may I ask you, psuedo scientist, how come there was life on earth before 1.5 mil years back. For surely you require iron in heamoglobin. Suggesting that 30 perce mass of earth that is iron now come from the supernova explostion 1.5 million ye back is the biggest stupidities you will encounter in science. O dumbo psuedo scientist, do you have any idea how much of a cataclysmic shock that is going be earth added 30 percent of its mass in one go? You also say: Quote: All this shows that iron did not form on the Earth, but was carried from Supernovas, and was "sent down," as stated in the verse. It is clear that this fac could not have been known in the 7th century, when the Qur'an was revealed. Nevertheless, this fact is related in the Qur'an, the Word of Allah, Who encompasses all things in His infinite knowledge. Pure horse sh!t. Read my what I wrote beofre. Not just iron, all the elements of solar system come from the supernova explosion. If Quran suggests only Iron cam from supernova explosion, then it is FAKE. All these miracles in Quran are bogus. Just like how the hindus have even more miraculous claims. Your Quranic science miralces is nothing compared to the mir that Hindus found out. Proof that Hindus (idol worshippers) knew about modern science before even Mohammed did (Let alone Newton Einstein, Bohr, Heisenber http://www.gosai.com/science/ http://www.mvoai.org/04_uf.html http://www.hindunet.org/srh_home/1996_7/msg00171.html http://www.flonnet.com/fl2219/stories/20050923002109200.htm http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/ http://www.eclectica.org/v3n4/gaborro.html http://www.maharishi-india.org/institutions/i3/vedic_science.html Charlatans like YOU, abound in this world. Whose only goal is to fool people. Wh even replying to you geesh. talkin about Quote: The numerological value of the word "hadid" alone is 26. And 26 is the atomic number of iron. Moreover, iron oxide particles**** Iron is used for this, yayadayadayada iron is used for that,yayadayadayada iron is used here yayadayadayada Iron is the single most important element known to man. . (Allah knows best.) So dont even sound consistent with what you a What bull, did you know if Carbon did not exist, life could not exist? If oxygen di exist life could not exist? If nitrogen did not exist life cannot exist? Iron is presen even on Moon, even in Sun, even on mercury, yet there is no life there??? Re the Iron The verses you mentioned is not right the orginal sentance in direct wor to translation without to add any personal understandin says: (we sent doun Iron ) not br miracle exist in word sent down. That means it's not from the earth original substance came from the sky (by shooting stars) towards the earth. re : If Quran suggests that ONLY IRON comes from outside then QURAN is a FAKE. the god didn't say in this sentence that he is going to list for us the substances cam fro outersapce or he is going to list for us all the usefull substances, the god just remind u great gift which is the iron, and becouse he is god and god don't make mistakes so he s down). Then Quran Is the god word _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:57 pm Post subject: goedels_paradox wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Islam miracles this is your 57:25 Quote: 57:25. Indeed We have sent Our Messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance (justice) that mankind may keep up justice. And We brought forth iron wherein is mighty power (in matters of war[1]), as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allâh may test who it is that will help Him (His religion) and His Messengers in the unseen. Verily, Allâh is All-Strong, All-Mighty. Where is there a miracle in this verse O psuedo scientist. The usage of Iron was k to mankind since 4000BC. Iron was used in warfare by the Romans and countless civilizations before Mohammed. The use of iron implements in agriculture and to was also known since way before Mohammed. Your Charlatan Mohammed existed the 7 th century AD. The verse above just acknowledeges a fact O dumbo psuedo scientist. What stupidity you express by suggesting that the verse above suggests supernova explosion You say: Quote: Not only the iron on earth, but also the iron in the entire Solar System, comes from outer space, since the temperature in the Sun is inadequate for the formation of iron. The sun has a surface temperature of 6,000 degrees Celsius, and a core temperature of approximately 20 million degrees. Iron can only be produced in much larger stars than the Sun, where the temperature reaches a few hundred million degrees. When the amount of iron exceeds a certain level in a star, the star can no longer accommodate it, and it eventually explodes in what is called a "nova" or a "supernova." These explosions make it possible for iron to be given off into space.39 Of course all this is true. But to connect this with verse 57:25 you and your mulla have just shown how dumb you are for the whole world to see. Your half baked p science is of no interest to anyone. Do you have any idea what the scientists mea when they say that Iron comes from supernova explosions? What are your qualifications may I ask you O psuedo scientist? Dumbo, psuedo scientist, OUR sun itself has been hypothsized to be a second generation star. That is the whole solar system has been suggested to be have be formed from the remnants of an old supernova explosion. That means O dumbo p scientist all other elements not just iron have their source in that supernova explosion. If Quran suggests that ONLY IRON comes from outside then QURAN FAKE. ALL the elements of this earth and what we are composed of comes from supernova explosion. You also say the following Quote: Enhanced levels of iron-60 in deep-sea sediments have been interpreted as indications that a supernova explosion occurred within 90 light-years of the sun about 5 million years ago. Iron-60 is a radioactive isotope of iron, formed in supernova explosions, which decays with a half life of 1.5 million years. Iron is the most abundant element on the earth. It accounts for over 30 percent mass of this earth. Are you suggesting that 30 percent of mass of earth came from separate event after the formation of the earth through a supernova explosion? may I ask you, psuedo scientist, how come there was life on earth before 1.5 mil years back. For surely you require iron in heamoglobin. Suggesting that 30 perce mass of earth that is iron now come from the supernova explostion 1.5 million ye back is the biggest stupidities you will encounter in science. O dumbo psuedo scientist, do you have any idea how much of a cataclysmic shock that is going be earth added 30 percent of its mass in one go? You also say: Quote: All this shows that iron did not form on the Earth, but was carried from Supernovas, and was "sent down," as stated in the verse. It is clear that this fac could not have been known in the 7th century, when the Qur'an was revealed. Nevertheless, this fact is related in the Qur'an, the Word of Allah, Who encompasses all things in His infinite knowledge. Pure horse sh!t. Read my what I wrote beofre. Not just iron, all the elements of solar system come from the supernova explosion. If Quran suggests only Iron cam from supernova explosion, then it is FAKE. All these miracles in Quran are bogus. Just like how the hindus have even more miraculous claims. Your Quranic science miralces is nothing compared to the mir that Hindus found out. Proof that Hindus (idol worshippers) knew about modern science before even Mohammed did (Let alone Newton Einstein, Bohr, Heisenber http://www.gosai.com/science/ http://www.mvoai.org/04_uf.html http://www.hindunet.org/srh_home/1996_7/msg00171.html http://www.flonnet.com/fl2219/stories/20050923002109200.htm http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/ http://www.eclectica.org/v3n4/gaborro.html http://www.maharishi-india.org/institutions/i3/vedic_science.html Charlatans like YOU, abound in this world. Whose only goal is to fool people. Wh even replying to you geesh. So dont even sound consistent with what you a talkin about Quote: The numerological value of the word "hadid" alone is 26. And 26 is the atomic number of iron. Moreover, iron oxide particles**** Iron is used for this, yayadayadayada iron is used for that,yayadayadayada iron is used here yayadayadayada Iron is the single most important element known to man. . (Allah knows best.) What bull, did you know if Carbon did not exist, life could not exist? If oxygen di exist life could not exist? If nitrogen did not exist life cannot exist? Iron is presen even on Moon, even in Sun, even on mercury, yet there is no life there??? Re the Iron The verses you mentioned is not right the orginal sentance in direct wor to translation without to add any personal understandin says: (we sent doun Iron ) not br miracle exist in word sent down. That means it's not from the earth original substance came from the sky (by shooting stars) towards the earth. re : If Quran suggests that ONLY IRON comes from outside then QURAN is a FAKE. the god didn't say in this sentence that he is going to list for us the substances cam fro outersapce or he is going to list for us all the usefull substances, the god just remind u great gift which is the iron, and becouse he is god and god don't make mistakes so he s down). Then Quran Is the god word _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:19 am Post subject: wachamalit wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 IslamMiracles wrote: wachamalit wrote: Interesting that this Muslim dodged the stars missles to shoot djinn "miracle". The scinces exist in Quran is not only the aaparant scince but also the hidden scinces or u call it speritual scinces. We are here in this topic to discuss the apparant and clear scintefic scinces as proof that the quran is miracle, Then after you will get convinced like others did, you will beleive in the other informations which is not known by the phisical earth scinces. Sure spiritual science. Excuse to justify the erroneus. You seem to focus on the j not on the stars which is the actual subject of the verse. Your question dodging techniques won't be working on us ex-Muslims here. Is star a spiritual object or a physical object?Should I also add further that they a located in the lowest layer of the sky in the Quran? Stars move due to gravity from other massive objects such as other stars, black h and even their own planets. They are not located at the atmosphere but million kilometres away, in space. Can you somehow prove me wrong here using the Qur The good didn't say the world star which is (Najm) in arabic it's another object called S Shehab Single, some schooler says it's shooting stars becouse it's fire and the satan or d made of fire. (satans are tribe of djinn) When the god mentioned (Najm) which is stars he mentioned it without scintefic mista (I will not swear with the sites of stars, it's a great thing to swear with when you will k latest scinces says that the stars we see is just sites of stars was in the apparent place time ago as for the great distance when the light of the stars reach the earth the stars already in another places, so it's great thing to swear with the sites of stars becouse it of this big universe. read outerspace miracles in this forum. or visit the website. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:41 am Post subject: Re: miracles of quran are every where allahuackbar wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 allahuackbar wrote: Mohammadmericales wrote: as every body know No human made a book without mistakes Hmm, do we? Prove it? I have shelves full of books without mistakes. Apologies for quoting myself, must be the narcissist in me However I do feel members have missed an important point here, and are perhap trying too hard to prove their own intellect/knowledge... This is not needed at all... I have shelves full of books without mistakes, none of them claiming to be divine 1- So what is the source of Mohammed knolage? He speaks about fenomenas need hund years of researches, and costs alot of money to reach this knolage. 2- is there is a scientist sais that his theoris are absolute and he have no errors? and in time new beleivers are in islam now many of them are scintists becouse the miracles t how come this nomber of theories in one book without mistake? 3- how many theories can a man acheive in his life, we are talking about thouthands o Mohammed was busy all his life, before the message he was a trade mane used to trav place for researches. and after the message he is busy all the time to deliver it. 4- No book without error, if it's not a grammer error so it's false ideas, contrary ideas, error, uncomplete ideas. I bet that there is a book even with tiniy ideas without erros. What if it contain this uncountable nomber of topics, facts, and Ideas without single e _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top goedels_paradox Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:52 am Post subject: Quote: Re the Iron The verses you mentioned is not right the orginal sentance in direct wor t word translation without to add any personal understandin says: (we sent doun Iron ) brought th miracle exist in word sent down. That means it's not from the earth origin substances. and it came from the sky (by shooting stars) towards the earth. Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Posts: 402 re : If Quran suggests that ONLY IRON comes from outside then QURAN is a FAKE. the god didn't say in this sentence that he is going to list for us the substances cam f outersapce or he is going to list for us all the usefull substances, the god just remind with a great gift which is the iron, and becouse he is god and god don't make mistak he said (sent down). Then Quran Is the god word Where is there a miracle in that sentence Islammiracle? Any average man in 7 century that iron was very important. Perhaps you didnt read what I wrote, let me tell you cle use of iron as an important material was known since the time of ancient sumerians. Ir used in warfare, and ROMANS perfected it. They conquered vast areas with their armo weapons made of iron. In fact iron usage changed the lifestyle of mankind so much the archealogists called that age Iron age. So does it require GOD to tell man that iron wa important? Everyone noticed how strategically important iron was in those days. Its lik How oil is important today, iron was then. 57:25 tell a statement of fact. It does not prove a miracle. It does not show that there something that man couldnt have known without DIVINE intervention. So if there was a prophet, he could also have said the same thing. So you have still not proven that Qura God. _________________ There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts Oldest First Go Faith Freedom International Forum Index -> The Quran and Hadith View previous topic : Author Message Hector Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:03 am Post subject: Muhammad, I mean Allah, didn't know that long before Islam there was an age called t where iron implements began to be widely used and surplanted bronze and copper too As long ago as 3,000 BC the Anatolians discovered how to smelt iron from ore and thus age. Most cultures knew the importance of iron long before Muhammad, I mean Allah, There is nothing miraculous about that. Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan The ancient Egyptians also believed iron came from heaven, probably because their iro (before the iron age). They called iron ba en pet - meaning metal from heaven. Thus, t about anzalna of iron was already presaged by the ancient Egyptians by at least about _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagan find them (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hate-mongers? Back to top goedels_paradox Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:07 am Post subject: And islammiracles, I forgot to mention, the english translation of verse 57:25, I got fro English translation of Quran from the government of Saudi Arabia. You too can access t http://www.qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targama/Targama.asp?nSora=57&l=eng&nAya=2 Quote: Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Posts: 402 57:25. Indeed We have sent Our Messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with the Scripture and the Balance (justice) that mankind may keep up justice. And We broug wherein is mighty power (in matters of war[1]), as well as many benefits for mankind may test who it is that will help Him (His religion) and His Messengers in the unseen. is All-Strong, All-Mighty. _________________ There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth Back to top goedels_paradox Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:22 am Post subject: Quote: The ancient Egyptians also believed iron came from heaven, probably because their i meteoritic (before the iron age). They called iron ba en pet - meaning metal from he the Quranic verse about anzalna of iron was already presaged by the ancient Egyptia least about 2,500 years. Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Posts: 402 Thats true, because ancient egyptians were not known to have iron mines. No wonder, developed that all iron is from the heavens! Wish, muslims can ever use their brains.... Cant beleive they equate this to a supernova explosion _________________ There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth There is no God but Truth Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: goedels_paradox wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Quote: ocein can be caled mudspring Pearl of Islamic wisdom and science!!! Sorry typing error Oceions can't be called spring. You should have undrestood this alone. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top gupsfu Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: IslamMiracles wrote: goedels_paradox wrote: Quote: ocein can be caled mudspring Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 6517 Location: NoYFB Pearl of Islamic wisdom and science!!! Sorry typing error Oceions can't be called spring. You should have undrestood this alone. No, we're not Muslims, so we don't make arbitrary assumptions. _________________ _________________ Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject: goedels_paradox wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Quote: The earth is like a ball in quran it's very clear when the god said we are balling day into the night and we are balling the night into the day. is there is any oth meaning for this clear sentence. it discribe the shap and motion in the same t not only that the quran said that the earth is not a perfect ball and it's shorter it's both sides (north and south) Yes, and that is your mohammed thought that earth was the center of this unive the planets and sun revolved around it. All this is the discreditted Ptolemaic syst interestingly the Greeks believed that there are seven heavens, just like how mo said. The day balls around the earth converts into night and night balls around to into day. Notice no where does Mohammed mention Earth balls to get day into n claims day balls into night. Just like how the Greeks thought. Your Mohammed thought that the stars were like lamps hanging from the lowest And he uses them to drive away jinns. What a fake prophet is he?? No problem IF it's not clear enogh to you, Why the quran mixed between balling and da think it's now clear. Greaks didn't say that becouse they didn't know the earth is a ball. Re stars and satans read my previous posts re stars sites (the latest scintefic concept) _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Qur'an "Miracles" IslamMiracles wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 abuTrevor wrote: Posts: 89 Hello Islammiracles/Mohammedmiracles, Quote: The answer is clear hous of the ants for example can protect it from the big animals (not the small insects ofcourse it's not dangerous as the big animals) but the spider house is nothing with the big animals. Somehow, I don't think you understood my questions. Let me try and summ them for you:- 1. If the Qur'an is the unaltered word of God, full of hidden scientific mirac why then are there apparent scientific errors in it, eg. a) Spiders web is described as flimsy when actually spider silk is one of the strongest materials know to man. b) the sun is said to set in "a muddy spring" (see Qur'an 18:83 http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/018.qmt.html#018.086). 2. If 1,500 scientific miracles have already been found in the Qur'an and mo being discovered each day, why didn't Allah include something about the st of spider silk when he was talking about the spider's web? I hope that's clear enough for you. abuTrevor I will repeat the answe re the Hous of spider (house not web) as the verses conce Housing not the material of the web. The answer is verry clear The verses gave an exmple of those who take other god spider who to take his web as hous. the purpose of the hous normally and in this protect from the ungry of the god, or for the example of the spider to protect it animal, is the spider web considered a house (I agree silk is strong) but the spide tottally to the animal or any big creature like the exposure of those (who take ot to Allah ST. this house is stupid for protection from animals. and so are those wh proect thmselves from Allah using other gods. It's hardly can be used as hous it's exposed house in the world. Re the (sun and Muddy spring) The verses speak about the west way and the apparant west not speaking about fenomina and says that the sun sets in a muddy spring like the western translator In the time of the messenger the known end to west was the atlantic oceion, The the messenger leived in was a city of trade (Mekka) and they had maps for the tr the messenger himself went on trade long trips and it's known in the Mekka trade that the end of the west is the atlantic oceion. So how do u beleive those western translators. there is no mud in the atlantic oc they know that, the verses says it's the end of his jeurny to west in the place of Z there was mud spring, where he find people.... If the arabic men said we will go to the west or sombody will go to the west that in arabic to go to Morrocco which exist at the far west of north africa, this is the known by word west (maghreb) in that time, so whn arab want to say to go to en they say reach the set of the sun to difranchiate it from saing Morocco or west. The proof also of what I said is morooco in arabic is maghreb and maghreb is wes name is called for morrocco becouse it's known by arab as the end of the west be time of Mohammed SWS. So Mohammed and arabs knows that the end of the apparant west is morroco wh no mud and the ocein cant be called mudspring. spring is small and you can see i oceions like the atlantic which is thknown west end for old world cant see the ot this is mud and this is sandy beach. arabs know the atlantic oceions and called M which is at the far west of africa they called it the west. Another proof. The spring can easily go arround it becouse it's small and you see the other side so how sombody sow the sun get inside a spring they better say in small spring. becouse all the people who folowed the sun set they sow in get insi atlantic oceion. including arabs. The midiaval translation of shakir mentioned in the linke u gave me says it's blac own openion in the mediaval time, the word says a muddy spring (Ain Hameaa). The earth is like a ball in quran it's very clear when the god said we are balling t the night and we are balling the night into the day. is there is any other meaning clear sentence. it discribe the shap and motion in the same time. not only that t said that the earth is not a perfect ball and it's shorter from it's both sides (north _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:51 pm Post subject: Hector wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Muhammad, I mean Allah, didn't know that long before Islam there was an age called Age' where iron implements began to be widely used and surplanted bronze and copp As long ago as 3,000 BC the Anatolians discovered how to smelt iron from ore and thu the iron age. Most cultures knew the importance of iron long before Muhammad, I m wrote the Quran. There is nothing miraculous about that. The ancient Egyptians also believed iron came from heaven, probably because their i meteoritic (before the iron age). They called iron ba en pet - meaning metal from he the Quranic verse about anzalna of iron was already presaged by the ancient Egyptia least about 2,500 years. The god is speaking to all mankind and riminding us with the gift of Iron, Allah is befor allah is the god in english. Iron is used in the city of mekka before Mohammed became a messenger. It's primitive Sombody posted the same as u before. Please read all my posts before posting any new But read slowly and carefully. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: goedels_paradox wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Quote: The ancient Egyptians also believed iron came from heaven, probably because iron was meteoritic (before the iron age). They called iron ba en pet - meaning from heaven. Thus, the Quranic verse about anzalna of iron was already presag the ancient Egyptians by at least about 2,500 years. Thats true, because ancient egyptians were not known to have iron mines. No wo myth developed that all iron is from the heavens! Wish, muslims can ever use the brains.... Cant beleive they equate this to a supernova explosion Read my previous posting again re where is the miracles in this verse, and you will und How Mohamed reveald the hirogliphic inscription? It's not myth Anceint egyptians hade messengers also that is not known by us, Akhenato messenger and worshipd one god the same god of all messengers, He was depicted rais muslims do while praing, and looking to the sky and depicting prays the same of David is not worshiping the sun as western scintists said, Becouse Sun In egyptian language m The god of akhenaton was Aton or Aten which was mentioned before akhenaton from t before Akhenaton in egyptian tombs. Ahenaton is the only god as he said and he said no god but Aten and discribed Aten as t every thing and the controler of every thing as we do and all Heaven mesengers did. The God Aten Or Allah send messengers to the people to remind them with him and his worshiped. As per Egyptology people forgot Aten then Akhenaton came to remind the p god _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top Righteous Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: IslamMiracles wrote: He is not worshiping the sun as western scintists said, Becouse Sun In egyptian langua Re or Raa, So desperate is IslamMiracles that he is even inventing his own interpretation of the an language. Joined: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 3606 Location: Narnia Whilst Ra means the Sun, Aten means the "disk" of the Sun. Quote: The god of akhenaton was Aton or Aten which was mentioned before akhenaton from year before Akhenaton in egyptian tombs. Although the Aten existed since the Middle Kingdom, it was elevated by Akenaton. Nob the Aten was invented by Akenaton. Quote: Ahenaton is the only god as he said and he said no god but Aten and discribed Aten a creator of every thing and the controler of every thing as we do and all Heaven mese The God Aten Or Allah send messengers to the people to remind them with him and h be worshiped. As per Egyptology people forgot Aten then Akhenaton came to remind with the god Aten is just the prototype for your God. He was the first documented monotheistic God isn't Allah. For that you have to look at the moon instead. Your knowledge of Egyptian mythology and history is extremely poor. The key concept troika, (Aten + Akenaton + Nefertiti), and the idea that the Pharoah was God personifie concept alone is heretical in Islam. _________________ "Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves." - physicis Feynman Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: goedels_paradox wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Quote: The ancient Egyptians also believed iron came from heaven, probably because iron was meteoritic (before the iron age). They called iron ba en pet - meaning from heaven. Thus, the Quranic verse about anzalna of iron was already presag the ancient Egyptians by at least about 2,500 years. Thats true, because ancient egyptians were not known to have iron mines. No wo myth developed that all iron is from the heavens! Wish, muslims can ever use the brains.... Cant beleive they equate this to a supernova explosion You must be kidding, the iron story was in the bigining of earth creation, Egyptians had there is alot iron missles pins that they used for sculpture. and making statues _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: Righteous wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 IslamMiracles wrote: He is not worshiping the sun as western scintists said, Becouse Sun In egyptian language means Re or Raa, So desperate is IslamMiracles that he is even inventing his own interpretation of Egyptian language. Whilst Ra means the Sun, Aten means the "disk" of the Sun. Quote: The god of akhenaton was Aton or Aten which was mentioned before akhenaton thouthands year before Akhenaton in egyptian tombs. Although the Aten existed since the Middle Kingdom, it was elevated by Akenato claims that the Aten was invented by Akenaton. Quote: Ahenaton is the only god as he said and he said no god but Aten and discribed A the creator of every thing and the controler of every thing as we do and all Hea mesengers did. The God Aten Or Allah send messengers to the people to remind them with him his right to be worshiped. As per Egyptology people forgot Aten then Akhenaton to remind the people with the god Aten is just the prototype for your God. He was the first documented monotheist the Aten isn't Allah. For that you have to look at the moon instead. Your knowledge of Egyptian mythology and history is extremely poor. The key co Aten involves a troika, (Aten + Akenaton + Nefertiti), and the idea that the Pharo personified on earth. This concept alone is heretical in Islam. I studied Hirogliphics and antiant egyptian language, And studied egyptology to. Some schooler searched for the meaning of Aten and didn't find any answer but two so in the egyptian Museume. Source no 1 Is the scene dipicted while Aten worshiping, they found He depicted the sh the sky and he is looking to the sky which include the sun, So he is either worshiping th didn't say he worship the sun i personnally can't find a reason to make him fight the pri in thebes and get out of his town and build a new capital just to replace the worship o Re with the worship of the sundisk that is so stupid) or he is just looking to the sky or b god (or Allah in arabic) who is in the top heaven. as people used to look to the sky whi As you know to drow a sky in egypt you will just drow the sun, as Egypt Climate is clea nothing but the sun in the sky to dipict. Source 2 is the hirogliphic inscriptions of his prayers which is simillar to that of David t I want you to get back to the quranic miracles, I'm waiting for two days and no body co reply, all the replys posted I answered it before and all old questions to repeat. If no body can reply to me without to be shalowish or to repeat the questions, then I h speak with in this stupid site. I can't see here but some shalowish jumpers between rooms who can't make any wise d It's clear now that this debate is finished without a clear victory for the Islamic Miracle another 10 posts for those who don't read 1st and I replied theire answers fully before, dont say any thing arround the topic just fulish insults or making repeated fulish things clear victory again. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top Hector Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan Muhammad, I mean Allah, didn't know that long before Islam there was an age the 'Iron Age' where iron implements began to be widely used and surplanted b and copper tools. As long ago as 3,000 BC the Anatolians discovered how to smelt iron from ore a thus heralded the iron age. Most cultures knew the importance of iron long bef Muhammad, I mean Allah, wrote the Quran. There is nothing miraculous about The ancient Egyptians also believed iron came from heaven, probably because iron was meteoritic (before the iron age). They called iron ba en pet - meaning from heaven. Thus, the Quranic verse about anzalna of iron was already presag the ancient Egyptians by at least about 2,500 years. The god is speaking to all mankind and riminding us with the gift of Iron, Allah is the univers allah is the god in english. Iron is used in the city of mekka before Mohammed became a messenger. It's prim Sombody posted the same as u before. Please read all my posts before posting an But read slowly and carefully. Really? I thought I was adding something to the discussion. You have been busted big ti _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagan find them (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hate-mongers? Back to top Hector Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:42 am Post subject: [quote="IslamMiracles"]Greaks didn't say that becouse they didn't know the earth is a b So Erasthothenes worked out the circumference of the earth without knowing it's a sph _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagan find them (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hate-mongers? Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:11 am Post subject: Hector wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 IslamMiracles wrote: Greaks didn't say that becouse they didn't know the earth is a ball.quote] So Erasthothenes worked out the circumference of the earth without knowing i sphere? As I said Before: {quote="IslamMiracles"] If no body can reply to me without to be shalowish or to repeat the questions, th no body to speak with in this stupid site. I can't see here but some shalowish jumpers between rooms who can't make any debate. It's clear now that this debate is finished without a clear victory for the Islamic M counted another 10 posts for those who don't read 1st and I replied theire answe before, or those who dont say any thing arround the topic just fulish insults or m repeated fulish things. Then It's a very clear victory again. Mr. Hector Could only record the count Nomber 1 for the shalow questions that have re Becouse he have nothing to say after all this discussion. Here is the Answere for Mr. Hector that I already Said before. Page 1 of this forum {quote="IslamMiracles"]3- the 1st book to say that the earth is like the ball not only tha that it's not a perfect ball{ we ball the day into the night and ball the night into the da discription. {and you see the earth we reduce it from it's sides} (northh and south).[/qu Page 1 of this forum {quote="IslamMiracles"]Mohamed is not stuipid to talk about scintefic theories (which a these theories may be proofed it's viseversa in the future, then says there is no mistake quran[/quote] Pag 4 of this forum {quote="IslamMiracles"] The earth is like a ball in quran it's very clear when the god said we are balling the day and we are balling the night into the day. is there is any other meaning for this clear s discribe the shap and motion in the same time. not only that the quran said that the e perfect ball and it's shorter from it's both sides (north and south)[/quote] No body here could proof that My scintefic miracles that I posted Is not counted as clea rpeat my topics again. {quote="IslamMiracles"]1-the 1st and only full discription of the human creating steps a take till it comes full baby. till now there is no names of theese shapes by words but in name it by nombers only till now. 2- The 1st discription of the creating of the univers.(the expantion of the univers). 3- the 1st book to say that the earth is like the ball not only that it mentioned that it's ball{ we ball the day into the night and ball the night into the day} dinamic discription earth we reduce it from it's sides} 4- The 1st book to discribe the mountains not only the apparent shap above the ground shape under the ground, as schoolers discovered that most of the mountain is under th solid materials are extended under the ground like the the shape of the nails or pins { mountains like the pins} 5- The 1st book that says that there is movement for the mountains. {and you see the m think that it's freezed but it moves like the movement of the clouds} that's tru the mou the earth moves which are many, also it's sliding to. [/quote] I will not move to any other topic til we agree that we finished the main topics, and th Miracles. If you are saing that there is otheres have also these scintefic facts before him So you are mentioned in quran and you want me to move to a new topic, I have it's answers bu to it untill I finish the 1st step. I repeat again, If any body proof that some body proofed that those scintefic facts are quran, Then Mention The that quote. May god guid you to the truth. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts Oldest First Go All times are GMT Faith Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next Freedom International Forum Index -> The Quran and Hadith Page 5 of 8 View previous topic :: View next topic Author Message Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:28 am BIRTH Post subject: PREGNANCY AND IslamMiracles Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 No body readed this: PREGNANCY AND BIRTH Curse man for his ingratitude! From what thing did He create him? From a drop of sperm He created him and proportioned him. Then He eases the way for him. (Qur'an, 80:17-20) The foetus is fully formed at the end of the sixth month. The womb then enters the incubation period. All the baby's bodily organs and systems develop fully during that time, and the womb accelerates this growth by providing nourishment for the foetus. This period continues until the baby emerges from the mother's womb. The birth canal is normally very narrow and it is difficult for the foetus to pass through it. During birth, however, a number of physiological changes take place in the mother's body. These changes allow the foetus to move easily through the birth canal. Some of these changes include: the expansion of the joints in the pelvic bones in order to widen the birth canal, the relaxation of the muscles to further widen the canal and the lubrication of the canal with amniotic fluid.92 These pre-birth changes are described in one scientific source in these terms: As birth approaches, the amniotic fluid embarks on those activities that will be necessary to facilitate that birth. This fluid comprises sacs, which will enlarge the mouth of the womb, thus allowing the womb to assume the dimensions to allow the baby to pass. These sacs also prevent the foetus from being crushed in the womb during birth. Furthermore, when the sacs burst and release their fluid at the commencement of birth, the path to be taken by the foetus is both lubricated and sterilised. In this way, birth takes place easier and in a manner naturally free of germs.93 This series of occurrences is openly indicated in the verse of the Qur'an, "Then He eases the way for him." (Qur'an, 80:20) However, it has been possible today to determine these physiological changes-which Allah informed us of 1,400 years agoonly with the use of a number of technological devices. 92. Kazi, 130 Evident Miracles in the Qur'an, 96-97. 93. Laurence Pernoud, J‟attends un enfant (Paris : Pierre Horay : 1995), 138. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top Hector Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: Islamicmiracles, Please use your brain. You think you were made from a sperm? What a hilarious concept. How do you get from 'proportioned him' to: Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan The foetus is fully formed at the end of the sixth month. The womb then enters the incubation period. All the baby's bodily organs and systems develop fully during that time, and the womb accelerates this growth by providing nourishment for the foetus. This period continues until the baby emerges from the mother's womb. ? How do you get then he eases the way for him to mean: As birth approaches, the amniotic fluid embarks on those activities that will be necessary to facilitate that birth. This fluid comprises sacs, which will enlarge the mouth of the womb, thus allowing the womb to assume the dimensions to allow the baby to pass. These sacs also prevent the foetus from being crushed in the womb during birth. Furthermore, when the sacs burst and release their fluid at the commencement of birth, the path to be taken by the foetus is both lubricated and sterilised. In this way, birth takes place easier and in a manner naturally free of germs.? The verse says, 'Thumma alssabeela yassarahu' which means, 'Then (to) the road/path He eased him'. It is not talking about the birth process but life in general because of the next ayat. Thumma amatahu faaqbarahu Then He made him die, so He caused him to be buried in a grave . So right after the birth, the Muslim dies and is buried in a grave? Get real, bud. _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagans wherever you find them (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hatemongers? Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: This nomber Of scintefic facts need hundred years to collect Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 This nomber Of scintefic facts need tens of years to collect, If you say that those facts were known in the time of Mohammed. Then to collect them needs hundreds of years to collect it and to be sure that these facts are tru enogh to put it in the quran, that he said it have no errors and he was planing to make the quran performed forever in all the incomming ages. By the way those are not all the scintefic facts, there is a new fact to be posted every day in many Islamic news paper, without any exageration they are arround hundred thousand scintefic fact. If you know mohammed life he was busy all his life to these resarches and to collect all this nomber of informations, there was no any book that have those facts. If you noticed our speach before we were speaking about scintefic new facts and by chance in the verses before the verses we speak about is another nowaday scintefic fact. In some verses there is many of nowaday scintefic facts in the same time. Those are some examples: THE COMING OF THE UNIVERSE INTO EXISTENCE THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE THE END OF THE UNIVERSE AND THE BIG CRUNCH CREATION FROM HOT SMOKE THE SPLITTING ASUNDER OF "THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH" THE CREATION OF WHAT LIES BETWEEN THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH THE PERFECT EQUILIBRIUM IN THE UNIVERSE THE FINE TUNING IN THE UNIVERSE THE STRUCTURAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SUN, THE MOON AND THE STARS ORBITS AND THE ROTATING UNIVERSE THE SUN'S TRAJECTORY THE MOON'S ORBIT CALCULATING THE LUNAR YEAR THE FORCE OF GRAVITY AND ORBITAL MOVEMENTS THE ROUNDNESS OF THE EARTH THE EARTH'S DIRECTION OF ROTATION THE EARTH'S GEOID SHAPE THE DIAMETERS OF THE EARTH AND SPACE THE LAYERS OF THE ATMOSPHERE THE PROTECTED ROOF THE SKY MADE A DOME THE RETURNING SKY THE LAYERS OF THE EARTH THE EARTH DISGORGES ITS CHARGES THE FUNCTION OF MOUNTAINS THE MOVEMENT OF MOUNTAINS DIFFERENT POINTS IN THE RISING AND SETTING OF THE SUN LAND LOSS AT THE EXTREMITIES THE SPLITTING EARTH THE MIRACLE OF IRON THE FORMATION OF PETROL THE RELATIVITY OF TIME CREATION IN SIX DAYS THE TRUTH OF DESTINY DUALITY IN CREATION SUB-ATOMIC PARTICLES BLACK HOLES PULSARS: PULSATING STARS THE STAR SIRIUS LIGHT AND DARK COMBUSTION WITHOUT FIRE THE WEIGHT OF CLOUDS THE PROPORTION OF RAIN THE FORMATION OF RAIN RAINS WHICH BRING A DEAD LAND BACK TO LIFE THE FORMATION OF HAIL, THUNDER AND LIGHTNING THE FECUNDATING WINDS THE STAGES OF WIND FORMATION HOW THE PROCESS OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS BEGINS IN THE MORNING THE SEAS NOT MINGLING WITH ONE ANOTHER DARKNESS IN THE SEAS AND INTERNAL WAVES THE REGION THAT CONTROLS OUR MOVEMENTS HEARTS FIND PEACE IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ALLAH FORGIVENESS ACCORDING TO THE MORALS OF ISLAM AND ITS BENEFITS ON HEALTH HOW PRAYER ACCELERATES THE TREATMENT OF THE SICK STRESS AND DEPRESSION: THE RESULTS OF NOT ABIDING BY THE RELIGION THE BIRTH OF A HUMAN BEING THE CREATION OF HUMAN BEINGS FROM WATER CREATION FROM CLAY THE PROGRAMMING IN GENES THE MENSTRUAL PERIOD PREGNANCY AND BIRTH THE SEQUENCE IN DEVELOPMENT OF HUMAN ORGANS THE FORMATION OF MILK MIRACULOUS MIXTURE: MOTHER'S MILK THE IDENTITY IN THE FINGERPRINT THE FEMALE HONEY BEE THE MIRACLE OF HONEY THE DATE AND ITS USES AS DESCRIBED IN THE QUR'AN THE FIG: A FRUIT WHOSE PERFECTION HAS ONLY RECENTLY BEEN REVEALED FISH: A VALUABLE SOURCE OF NUTRITION PORK AND ITS HARMFUL EFFECTS ON HEALTH THE OLIVE: A HEALTH-GIVING PLANT CORONARY BY-PASS SURGERY HEALTH BENEFITS OF MOVEMENT, WASHING AND DRINKING WATER THE EXISTENCE OF MICROSCOPIC LIFE THE EXISTENCE OF ANIMAL SOCIETIES BIOMIMETICS: DRAWING INSPIRATION FROM THE DESIGN IN LIVING THINGS LOCUSTS MOVING IN SWARMS ANT COMMUNICATION THE FOOD CYCLE THE EARS ARE ACTIVE DURING SLEEP THE IMPORTANCE OF MOVEMENT IN SLEEP REDUCED MOVEMENT AT NIGHT CHEST CONTRACTION WITH INCREASING HEIGHT We talked about 5 facts and all of them no body could proof that they are not mentioned in quran. Would u like me to proof that those facts all are mentioned in the quran? Please do some homwork and open the below site. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top Hector Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:51 am Post subject: IslamMiracles, Most of these have been debunked here already. The rest are so stupid nobody even bother to debunk them. Why don't you pick your best and debate me on it? Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan Cheers, Hector _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagans wherever you find them (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hatemongers? Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:59 am Post subject: Hector wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Islamicmiracles, Please use your brain. You think you were made from a sperm? What a hilarious concept. How do you get from 'proportioned him' to: The foetus is fully formed at the end of the sixth month. The womb then enters the incubation period. All the baby's bodily organs and systems develop fully during that time, and the womb accelerates this growth by providing nourishment for the foetus. This period continues until the baby emerges from the mother's womb. ? How do you get then he eases the way for him to mean: As birth approaches, the amniotic fluid embarks on those activities that will be necessary to facilitate that birth. This fluid comprises sacs, which will enlarge the mouth of the womb, thus allowing the womb to assume the dimensions to allow the baby to pass. These sacs also prevent the foetus from being crushed in the womb during birth. Furthermore, when the sacs burst and release their fluid at the commencement of birth, the path to be taken by the foetus is both lubricated and sterilised. In this way, birth takes place easier and in a manner naturally free of germs.? The verse says, 'Thumma alssabeela yassarahu' which means, 'Then (to) the road/path He eased him'. It is not talking about the birth process but life in general because of the next ayat. Thumma amatahu faaqbarahu Then He made him die, so He caused him to be buried in a grave . So right after the birth, the Muslim dies and is buried in a grave? Get real, bud. THE SEQUENCE IN DEVELOPMENT OF HUMAN ORGANS It is He Who has created hearing, sight and minds for you. What little thanks you show! (Qur'an, 23:7 Allah brought you out of your mothers' wombs knowing nothing at all, and gave you hearing, sight and minds so that perhaps you would show thanks. (Qur'an, 16:7 Say: "What do you think? If Allah took away your hearing and your sight and sealed up your hearts, what god is there, other than Allah, who could give them back to you?"… (Qur'an, 6:46) We created man from a mingled drop to test him, and We made him hearing and seeing. (Qur'an, 76:2) The information only recently obtained about the formation of the baby‟s organs inside the mother‟s womb is in complete agreement with that revealed in the Qur‟an. The above verses refer to a number of senses given to human beings by Allah. These are always referred in a specific order in the Qur'an: hearing, sight, feeling and understanding. In a paper published in the Journal of the Islamic Medical Association, Dr. Keith Moore states that during the development of the foetus, the eye begins to form after the inner ear has assumed its first form. He says the brain, the centre of feeling and understanding, begins its development after the ear and the eye.94 The foetus' ears begin to develop as early as the twenty-second day of pregnancy and become fully functional in the fourth month. After that, the foetus can hear sounds in its mother's womb. For that reason, the sense of hearing forms before the other vital functions for a new-born baby. The order set out in the Qur'an is striking from that point of view. (See Harun Yahya, The Miracle of the Creation of the Human Being, Goodword Books, New Delhi, 2001) 94. Kazi, 130 Evident Miracles in the Qur'an, 78-79. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:04 am Post subject: Hector wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 IslamMiracles, Most of these have been debunked here already. The rest are so stupid nobody even bother to debunk them. Why don't you pick your best and debate me on it? Cheers, Hector Then till me th place of any debunktion ? They all agreed it's mentioned in quran but it's known before Mohammed and he just collect the info. Mr. Hector counted the stupid question nomber 2 and he didn't read the prior posts, I'm sure 100% that he will pick up a dbunktion that I clearly answered in the prior posts, and he will count the stupid repeated question nomber 3 There is still 8 trials and the debate will be ended with clear victory If no any body able to pick up one of the 5 scintefic facts that is not mentioned in quran. then live the 8 traials to sombody smarter. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Last edited by IslamMiracles on Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:13 am; edited 1 time in total Back to top Hector Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:09 am Post subject: This is rubbish. This pseudo-science has been debunked already. See this link: http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=245747#245747 Hector wrote: I write this to clarify the Islamist misconceptions: it is easy to fall into the trap of not distinguishing the beginning of development of an organ from when it becomes fully functional. THHuxley is right in that the brain must develop function before the organs if the latter are to become functional. However, there is also the dimension of 'first development' as well. Zakir Naik has repeated Keith Moore‟s polemics about the development of the senses in the fetus: Zakir Naik wrote: SENSE OF HEARING AND SIGHT The first sense to develop in a developing human embryo is hearing. The foetus can hear sounds after the 24th week. Subsequently, the sense of sight is developed and by the 28th week, the retina becomes sensitive to light. Consider the following Qur‟aanic verses related to the development of the senses in the embryo: “And He gave You (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (And understanding).” [Al-Qur‟aan 32:9] “Verily We created Man from a drop Of mingled sperm, In order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), Of Hearing and Sight.” [AlQur‟aan 76:2] “It is He Who has created For you (the faculties of) Hearing, sight, feeling And understanding: little thanks It is ye give!” [Al-Qur‟aan 23:78] In all these verses the sense of hearing is mentioned before that of sight. Thus the Qur‟aanic description matches with the discoveries in modern embryology. From “The Qur‟aan and Modern Science: Compatible or Incompatible “by Dr Zaki Naik. Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan http://www.ymofmd.com/books/qms.pdf Evidence from the standpoint of first development: If we examine when the organs begin development in the fetus we see the brain begins development in week 3 (Carnegie Stage 11), while the eyes and ears begin development in week 4-5 (Carnegie Stage 13 - both eyes and ears begin development in rudimentary stage at the same time). Keith Moore says Week 4 in K. Moore, Before We Were Born, 3rd ed., 1989, p. 278 Thus from the first development standpoint, the Islamist polemicists are wrong in claiming the eyes, ears and brain developed in that order. Evidence from the standpoint of functional development: If we examine when the organs first achieve function we see that the brain begins function at around Day 40, or late Week 6/early Week 7. The ears begin structural development around Week 8 and is complete by Week 24. However the ears would have developed sufficient to hear sounds by Week 18. The eyes are the last sense organ to attain function. First retinal light detection occurs around Week 18 but the pupil only detects light around Week 33 so it is then that the fetus can discern faint shapes through its closed eye-lids. Thus from the functional development standpoint, the Islamist polemicists are wrong in claiming the eyes, ears and brain develop in that order. Summary: First development sequence: Brain Week 3; Eyes and Ears Week 4. First function sequence: Brain Week 6-7; Ears Week 18; Eyes Week 33. Thus, real embryology proves the Islamist polemicists wrong. IslamMiracles, Do you want to discuss or try another topic? _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagans wherever you find them (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hatemongers? Back to top Hector Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:17 am Post subject: IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: IslamMiracles, Most of these have been debunked here already. The rest are so stupid nobody even bother to debunk them. Why don't you pick your best and debate me on it? Cheers, Hector Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan Then till me th place of any debunktion ? They all agreed it's mentioned in quran but it's known before Mohammed and he just collect the info. Mr. Hector counted the stupid question nomber 2 and he didn't read the prior posts, I'm sure 100% that he will pick up a dbunktion that I clearly answered in the prior posts, and he will count the stupid repeated question nomber 3 There is still 8 trials and the debate will be ended with clear victory If no any body able to pick up one of the 5 scintefic facts that is not mentioned in quran. then live the 8 traials to sombody smarter. What are you babbling about? I only have to disprove you once to show the Quran is a load of $hit. If you think you've debunked what I wrote, please tell me and we'll see. Please check out your 'best' 'miracle' which I have already demolished. What to discuss that? Has anyone discussed that with you? I don't want to be accused of repetition. _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagans wherever you find them (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hatemongers? Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: Hector wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Islamicmiracles, Please use your brain. You think you were made from a sperm? What a hilarious concept. . (He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected.) (The Qur'an, 53:45-46) In the Qur'an, it is said that masculinity or femininity are created out of "a drop of semen which has been ejected". However, until fairly recently, it was believed that a baby's sex was determined by the mother's cells. Science only discovered this information given in the Qur'an in the 20th century. This and many other similar details about the creation of man were stated in the Qur'an centuries ago. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top Hector Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: Islamicmiracles, Please use your brain. You think you were made from a sperm? What a hilarious concept. . Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan (He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected.) (The Qur'an, 53:45-46) In the Qur'an, it is said that masculinity or femininity are created out of "a drop of semen which has been ejected". However, until fairly recently, it was believed that a baby's sex was determined by the mother's cells. Science only discovered this information given in the Qur'an in the 20th century. This and many other similar details about the creation of man were stated in the Qur'an centuries ago. This has been debunked already. The ancient Egyptians also believed that gender is determined by the male parent - i.e. the sperm. http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=108550 _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagans wherever you find them (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hatemongers? Last edited by Hector on Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 You are concerned with the phases, these verses I mentioned are not the phases verses. There is another verses to discribe the 1st phases in details. I'm searching for it. wait for me I record it but I don't know where. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top Hector Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: IslamMiracles wrote: You are concerned with the phases, these verses I mentioned are not the phases verses. There is another verses to discribe the 1st phases in details. Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan I'm searching for it. wait for me I record it but I don't know where. It'll be my pleasure to wait for you wwhile you look for these phases verses. Have you looked at the embryological development sequences of the ear, eyes and brain? _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagans wherever you find them (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hatemongers? Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: Hector wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 IslamMiracles, Most of these have been debunked here already. The rest are so stupid nobody even bother to debunk them. Why don't you pick your best and debate me on it? Cheers, Hector Let's speak about the mountains as per the 1st post. I know the resources of it. But read 1st so you don't post a repeated question. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top Hector Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: Okay, which 'mountain' apologetic are you referring to? The mountains as pegs or the mountains moving as clouds? _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagans wherever you find them (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hatemongers? Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: Hector wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: Islamicmiracles, Please use your brain. You think you were made from a sperm? What a hilarious concept. . (He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected.) (The Qur'an, 53:45-46) In the Qur'an, it is said that masculinity or femininity are created out of "a drop of semen which has been ejected". However, until fairly recently, it was believed that a baby's sex was determined by the mother's cells. Science only discovered this information given in the Qur'an in the 20th century. This and many other similar details about the creation of man were stated in the Qur'an centuries ago. This has been debunked already. The ancient Egyptians also believed that gender is determined by the male parent - i.e. the sperm. http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=108550 So you agree that this scintefic fact is mentioned in quran and Mohammed collected only and put it to quran after ha became sure of it. Is that what you try to say? I will not talk about the phases of birth untill you declar like the rest that the quran had these facts inside to: 1- the earth is ball but not a complete ball as the god said it's shortened from it's sides (norht and south) 2- The 1st book to discribe the shape of the mountain not only from the apparant shap but also underground shap which is most of the mountain. 3- The Iron Is descnded from out side of earth. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts Oldest First Go miracles of quran are every where Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next Faith Freedom International Forum Index -> The Quran and Hadith View pr Author Message Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: Hector IslamMiracles wrote: So you agree that this scintefic fact is mentioned in quran and Mohammed collected after ha became sure of it. Is that what you try to say? Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan No. I say that the ancient Egyptians already knew that gender is determined by the ma (which is spurious in my estimation) to gender determination in the Quran is merely re IslamMiracles wrote: I will not talk about the phases of birth untill you declar like the rest that the quran 1- the earth is ball but not a complete ball as the god said it's shortened from it's sid Which verse says that? IslamMiracles wrote: 2- The 1st book to discribe the shape of the mountain not only from the apparant sh shap which is most of the mountain. This is not true. You learnt your geology from Islamist sites which use out-of-scale diag roots are like pegs. Yes, mountains do have roots but the Christians already knew that Here is a picture in scale - can you see the mountains as pegs? IslamMiracles wrote: 3- The Iron Is descnded from out side of earth. All elements heavier than Hydrogen and some Helium came from space - why pick on Ir Besides, the ancient Egyptians already believed iron came from space - they called iro from heaven. _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagan (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hate-mongers? Back to top masadi Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:20 am Post subject: Joined: 19 Dec 2005 Posts: 376 It is useless reasoning with HEctor, the miserable excuse for a human being is self-dece based on illogicality, then defines his opponents arguments himself, then composes the argments himself and then dismantles what he constructed himself and declares victor wondering "what kind of damn fool is he, who is he arguing agianst? Those werent my a premises and even his fake premises are badly constructed and have no argument in th goes, every time an objection is placed he repeats his self-made questions to self-mad give a medal of honor to anyone who has the patience to talk to this miserable sob. He on top. That said, here is irrefutable mathematical evidence http://godel.rationalreality.com It is irrefutable since it is verified by many and tested multiple times. Yet this sob will then he will form questions himself and then he will dismantle the article based on his never fails, and his end refutation will not bear even a remote semblance to the origin I mock this damn fool, I pity him and I mock him, I feel sorry for him and his miserable don't let him rob your sanity he is a retard don't let him make you one too. Back to top Hector Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: masadi, Go on - show everyone what a shameless liar you are. For a man who got demolished h pride. Wasiyya. Wasiyya. Wasiyya. Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan Cheers, Hector _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagan (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hate-mongers? Back to top livethislife Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: masadi wrote: Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Dar-el-harb I mock this damn fool, I pity him and I mock him, I feel sorry for him and his miserab That said, don't let him rob your sanity he is a retard don't let him make you one too There is fairly sane debate going on and I am enjoying seeing Hector pluck the eyes of and behold this moron shows up! if you can't be a proper debator, here's 10 fils, why don't you go somewhere and play w _________________ Swift.Silent.Deadly. Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: Hector wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 IslamMiracles wrote: So you agree that this scintefic fact is mentioned in quran and Mohammed col it to quran after ha became sure of it. Is that what you try to say? No. I say that the ancient Egyptians already knew that gender is determined by any allusion (which is spurious in my estimation) to gender determination in the interpretation after the fact. So it's clear agreement with you that this fact is in quran and he get this info from The dimolished from thousands years before mohammed and no body read Hirogliphics in th make researches in the hirogliphic inscriptions till he became sure enogh from this fact we became sure of it now after the recent researches. It's logic that if the current scintists didn't know the fact of source of iron by the recen about the egyptian declaration it's just immagination. Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: "]I will not talk about the phases of birth untill you declar like the rest that th facts inside to: 1- the earth is ball but not a complete ball as the god said it's shortened from and south) Which verse says that? Another repeated question why you dont read the prior posts? there are three verses 1-He has created the Heavens and the Earth for Truth. He balling the night up in the d the night. (Qur'an, 39:5) In the Qur'an, the words used for describing the universe are quite remarkable. The Ar "to wrap" in the above verse is "takwir." In English, it means "to make one thing lap ove garment that is laid away." For instance, in Arabic dictionaries this word is used for the around another, in the way that a turban is put on. The information given in the verse wrapping each other up includes accurate information about the shape of the world. T is round. This means that in the Qur'an, which was revealed in the 7th century, the rou at. However, it should be remembered that the understanding of astronomy of the time pe It was then thought that the world was a flat plane and all scientific calculations and e belief. However, the Glorious Qur'an has employed the most definitive words when it c These facts, which we could only correctly fathom in our century, have been in the Qu 2-You will see the mountains and reckon them to be solid; but they go past like clouds gives to everything its solidity. He is aware of what you do. (Qur'an, 27:8 The above verse emphasises that the Earth not only rotates but that it also has a direc of movement of the main cloud masses at 3,500-4,000 metres high is always from West generally the state of the weather in the West which is looked at in meteorological for If only they had believed and had fear [and awareness of Allah]! A reward from Allah is better, if they only knew. (Qur‟an, 2:103) Do you not know that Allah is He to Whom the kingdom of the heavens and the earth b you have no protector and no helper? (Qur‟an, 2:107) The main reason why cloud masses are pulled from West to East is the direction in whi know, our Earth spins from West to East. This scientific fact, only recently established years ago in the Qur‟an, at a time when the Earth was believed to be flat, and to be re 18. “Effects of Rotation (Coriolis Effect),” The Woodrow Wilson National Fellowship Fo www.woodrow.org/teachers/esi/1998/p/weather/Corriolis.HTM. 3-After that He (daha) out the earth. (Qur'an, 79:30) In the above verse, the word "daha" is used in the original Arabic. It, translated as "smo word "dahv," meaning "to spread." Although the word "dahv" also means to cover or to s verb is more than just a prosaic setting out, since it describes setting out in a circle. The concept of roundness is also present in other words derived from "dahv." For exam to children dropping a ball into a hole in the ground, games involving throwing stones i with walnuts. Words derived from that root are also used for an ostrich making a nest, is about to lie down, the place where it lays its eggs and the egg itself. Indeed, the Earth is round, in a manner reminiscent of an egg. The slightly flattened sp known as geoid. From that point of view, the use of the word "daha" contains importan that Allah has given to the Earth. For hundreds of years, people imagined the Earth to learned the truth thanks to technology. Yet, this fact was revealed in the Qur'an fourte Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: 2- The 1st book to discribe the shape of the mountain not only from the appar underground shap which is most of the mountain. This is not true. You learnt your geology from Islamist sites which use out-of-sca that mountain roots are like pegs. Yes, mountains do have roots but the Christia long before Islam. Here is a picture in scale - can you see the mountains as pegs? 1-You didnt bring any mountain picture you are tring to fool the audiance becouse you here is the pics of the pegs it's wonderfull. The 1s't full scintefic discribtion for the mo peice of land over the level of the sea. how he sow the mountains under the ground? They are pegs or pins pins of the tent are just made like this shape dear audience. Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: 3- The Iron Is descnded from out side of earth. All elements heavier than Hydrogen and some Helium came from space - why pi I mentioned that before, pleeeeeeese reade the previous posts in this forum only this r questions are repeated and I already answered. I said before IslamMiracles wrote: The verses don't list the substances that came from space the god is reminding us w So you don't agree it's a miracle but you agree that it's a known fact before the time of you? Hector wrote: Besides, the ancient Egyptians already believed iron came from space - they called metal from heaven. So you don't agree it's a miracle but you agree that it's a known fact before the time of you? he just collected all these info Now you agreed that all the prior scintefic facts (1- the iron 2- the mountain shape,) a yet? that is the level that I want you to reach. Say yes or no, and tell why if no, May God guide you [/code] _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top Hector Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan So you agree that this scintefic fact is mentioned in quran and Mohamm only and put it to quran after ha became sure of it. Is that what you try to say? No. I say that the ancient Egyptians already knew that gender is determin parent. Thus, any allusion (which is spurious in my estimation) to gender d the Quran is merely re-interpretation after the fact. So it's clear agreement with you that this fact is in quran and he get this info fro which was dimolished from thousands years before mohammed and no body read time and mohammed could make researches in the hirogliphic inscriptions till he from this fact before he show it to us, after we became sure of it now after the I never said that. I‟m saying that it cannot be miraculous if it was already known or be before Muhammad. Don‟t try to put words in my mouth. How can gender determination be miraculous when it‟s already known by many people IslamMiracles wrote: It's logic that if the current scintists didn't know the fact of source of iron by the rec say about the egyptian declaration it's just immagination. No. I‟m saying that it is not logical to claim that „iron from heaven‟ in the Quran is mir heaven‟ by the ancient Egyptians is not miraculous. The ancient Egyptians got there first. Therefore, the Quran is not miraculous because i information about iron from heaven was already known by people. So how can that be IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: "]I will not talk about the phases of birth untill you declar like the rest t had these facts inside to: 1- the earth is ball but not a complete ball as the god said it's shortened sides (norht and south) Which verse says that? Another repeated question why you dont read the prior posts? Please don‟t insult me again. IslamMiracles wrote: there are three verses 1-He has created the Heavens and the Earth for Truth. He balling the night up in the up in the night. (Qur'an, 39:5) In the Qur'an, the words used for describing the universe are quite remarkable. The translated as "to wrap" in the above verse is "takwir." In English, it means "to make o another, folded up as a garment that is laid away." For instance, in Arabic dictionari the action of wrapping one thing around another, in the way that a turban is put on. the verse about the day and the night wrapping each other up includes accurate info of the world. This can be true only if the Earth is round. This means that in the Qur' the 7th century, the roundness of the world was hinted at. However, it should be remembered that the understanding of astronomy of the time differently. It was then thought that the world was a flat plane and all scientific cal explanations were based on this belief. However, the Glorious Qur'an has employed when it came to describing the universe. These facts, which we could only correctly have been in the Qur'an for a vast length of time. The word is wrap – it‟s not ball. Wrap and ball are two different things. The verse also doesn‟t mention north and south but I think you made that up, didn‟t yo IslamMiracles wrote: 2-You will see the mountains and reckon them to be solid; but they go past like clou Who gives to everything its solidity. He is aware of what you do. (Qur'an, 27:8 The above verse emphasises that the Earth not only rotates but that it also has a dir direction of movement of the main cloud masses at 3,500-4,000 metres high is alwa is why it is generally the state of the weather in the West which is looked at in mete This is ridiculous. The verse is talking about a specific day – the Judgment Day when th It is not talking about the everyday event of earth rotation but what happens during Ju IslamMiracles wrote: If only they had believed and had fear [and awareness of Allah]! A reward from Allah is better, if they only knew. (Qur‟an, 2:103) Do you not know that Allah is He to Whom the kingdom of the heavens and the earth besides Allah, you have no protector and no helper? (Qur‟an, 2:107) The main reason why cloud masses are pulled from West to East is the direction in w we now know, our Earth spins from West to East. This scientific fact, only recently e was revealed 1,400 years ago in the Qur‟an, at a time when the Earth was believed resting on the back of an ox. Since your interpretation of 27;88 is wrong – then your entire argument is false. IslamMiracles wrote: 18. “Effects of Rotation (Coriolis Effect),” The Woodrow Wilson National Fellowship www.woodrow.org/teachers/esi/1998/p/weather/Corriolis.HTM. Meaningless. IslamMiracles wrote: 3-After that He (daha) out the earth. (Qur'an, 79:30) In the above verse, the word "daha" is used in the original Arabic. It, translated as "s from the word "dahv," meaning "to spread." Although the word "dahv" also means to meaning of the verb is more than just a prosaic setting out, since it describes settin The concept of roundness is also present in other words derived from "dahv." For exa also refers to children dropping a ball into a hole in the ground, games involving thr and games played with walnuts. Words derived from that root are also used for an o cleaning stones from where it is about to lie down, the place where it lays its eggs a Indeed, the Earth is round, in a manner reminiscent of an egg. The slightly flattened Earth is known as geoid. From that point of view, the use of the word "daha" contain about the shape that Allah has given to the Earth. For hundreds of years, people ima completely flat and only learned the truth thanks to technology. Yet, this fact was r fourteen centuries ago. This is wrong. Ostrich egg is baydat al naama ‫ .ال ن عامة ب ي ضة‬Not dahaha. http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6713 IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: 2- The 1st book to discribe the shape of the mountain not only from the a but also underground shap which is most of the mountain. This is not true. You learnt your geology from Islamist sites which use out-o pretend that mountain roots are like pegs. Yes, mountains do have roots bu already knew that long before Islam. Here is a picture in scale - can you see the mountains as pegs? . 1-You didnt bring any mountain picture you are tring to fool the audiance becou here is the pics of the pegs it's wonderfull. The 1s't full scintefic discribtion for t it's defined as a peice of land over the level of the sea. how he sow the mountai They are pegs or pins pins of the tent are just made like this shape dear audienc Look at my picture again – see the Andes mountains? Aren‟t they mountains? Your pictures are NOT TO SCALE. Mine is. IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: 3- The Iron Is descnded from out side of earth. All elements heavier than Hydrogen and some Helium came from space - w I mentioned that before, pleeeeeeese reade the previous posts in this forum onl it? all your questions are repeated and I already answered. I said before Don‟t insult me again. If you want to debate me, debate me. Don‟t ask me to read you over it. IslamMiracles wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: The verses don't list the substances that came from space the god is remindin iron.. So you don't agree it's a miracle but you agree that it's a known fact before the t that is ok with you? I don‟t understand what you‟re trying to say. How can something that was COMMONLY miracle if Muhammad writes it in the Quran? IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: Besides, the ancient Egyptians already believed iron came from space - they c pet' meaning metal from heaven. So you don't agree it's a miracle but you agree that it's a known fact before the t that is ok with you? he just collected all these info Don‟t put words in my mouth. I‟m saying it was commonly known. I didn‟t say he collec of people know something how can it be a miracle if the Quran contains that informati IslamMiracles wrote: Now you agreed that all the prior scintefic facts (1- the iron 2- the mountain shape, or not yet? that is the level that I want you to reach. Say yes or no, and tell why if no, May God guide you No. Some of these information are wrong. Mountains are not pegs. Iron comes from space but that info was already known. Gender determination was already known. Let me say this once: don‟t bring information that was already known as evidence that because it contains this information. This info may be true or false. It doesn‟t matter. the Quran it cannot be miraculous for being in the Quran. Got it? Any more Quranic pseudoscience you want me to debunk? _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagan (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hate-mongers? Back to top livethislife Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Dar-el-harb If the cran was miraculous, it wouldn't have talked about iron, it would talked about C _________________ Swift.Silent.Deadly. Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: why they escape from debating me after they k Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 Why they don't declare that these scintefic facts are mentioned in quran? Becouse they know what I will say, after they say to me ok what's next. The next is clear as long as I mentioened many recently known scintefic facts as examp they agreed they are mentioned in quran, then the rest 1000s facts I'm fully capable th Then who is the stupid who will say that Mohammed could collect all these info that w of years or just few weeks, from 1500 year ago. It's incredable to collect and verfy all these knowlage by a human, and put it in a book mistake. Stupid Stupid Stupid who say that is possible. To verfy only one fact of those 1000s scintefic complicated facts needs researches that didn't leive but 65 years, and was Busy Busy Busy. They say it's from the egyptian civilization knowlage, anciant Egyptian were known as pagans and magitians, so how he bring info from them For example: any one hear that they say the iron is from outer space, he will say it's im fact. so how mohammed risk and put an immaginative fact in his book brout from paga Hector came only to rpeat answered questions. He is one of the jumbers here in this sit, I need sombody who have a pationcy to read for 10 minutes the posts wrote in this roo will say the same that I said. at least he will say the quran have those facts mentioned _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:45 am Post subject: Another repeated question livethislife wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 If the cran was miraculous, it wouldn't have talked about iron, it would talked about Pleeeese reed the prior posts in this debate befor posting repeated questions I said before Islammiracles wrote: the god didn't say he is going to list all the vital substaces or he didn't say the most v reminding the human being with the gift of Iron, and the word sent down iron is the sentence as he mentioned the source from upside., the original aim for the verses is the miracles comes after which is the no mistake in composing the sentences includ The debate was successifully over with all the debators came here, They all declared that these scintefic facts are mentioned in quran. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top Hector Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:52 am Post subject: IslamMiracles wrote: Why they don't declare that these scintefic facts are mentioned in quran? Becouse they know what I will say, after they say to me ok what's next. Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan Because we're used to Muslim deception. YOu want us to say that there are scientific f you'll declare victory. But you leave out the fact that these 'scientific facts' are either wrong or so obvious th long before Islam or that other ancient people already knew them. Let me make this clear: 1. Mountains do not look like pegs in real life – only in „out of scale‟ schematic diagram 2. The facts about iron were already well-known before Islam so the fact that the Qura mean it‟s miraculous. 3. Gender determination was already well-known before Islam so the fact that the Qur mean it‟s miraculous. 4. Your interpretation of the order of hearing, sight and mind is wrong. Even in Keith M IslamMiracles wrote: The next is clear as long as I mentioened many recently known scintefic facts as exa facts, and they agreed they are mentioned in quran, then the rest 1000s facts I'm fu mentioned in quran, You say these facts are „recently known‟. This is not true. See the iron from heaven ex already knew that. IslamMiracles wrote: Then who is the stupid who will say that Mohammed could collect all these info that from tens of years or just few weeks, from 1500 year ago. These facts were commonly known. Muhammad didn‟t collect them because they were IslamMiracles wrote: It's incredable to collect and verfy all these knowlage by a human, and put it in a bo mistake. Stupid Stupid Stupid who say that is possible. Nobody is saying he collected them. He made some pretty stupid statements – some of IslamMiracles wrote: To verfy only one fact of those 1000s scintefic complicated facts needs researches t he didn't leive but 65 years, and was Busy Busy Busy. How come his facts are wrong? His embryology facts are wrong. His mountain facts are If he was a true prophet he shouldn‟t have got these facts wrong. But he did. IslamMiracles wrote: They say it's from the egyptian civilization knowlage, anciant Egyptian were known as pagans and magitians, so how he bring info from the For example: any one hear that they say the iron is from outer space, he will say it's scintefic fact. so how mohammed risk and put an immaginative fact in his book brou Many people from the Middle East believed iron came from heaven. Not only the ancie also believed this. It was common knowledge. IslamMiracles wrote: Hector came only to rpeat answered questions. He is one of the jumbers here in this sit, I need sombody who have a pationcy to read for 10 minutes the posts wrote in this r it all, will say the same that I said. at least he will say the quran have those facts m I will answer every question you put to me. If you don‟t like my answers that‟s your pro This is a free forum – I can answer any questions I like. If you want to discuss with me, other people. I don‟t ask you to read all that I have written, do I? I don‟t say to you tha take the trouble to answer you as if I had never discussed the topic with anyone else. _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagan (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hate-mongers? Back to top yeezevee Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject: Quote: Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 5025 IslamMiracles: The debate was successifully (successfully) over with all the debator They all declared that these scintefic(scientific) facts are mentioned in quran. I wonder whether IslamMiracles is a high school dropout or in Madrassa high school. Cu important than spending time with IMiracles.. with best regards yeezevee Back to top IslamMiracles Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: Hector wrote: Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 89 IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: So you agree that this scintefic fact is mentioned in quran and Moh collected only and put it to quran after ha became sure of it. Is that what you try to say? No. I say that the ancient Egyptians already knew that gender is dete the male parent. Thus, any allusion (which is spurious in my estimati determination in the Quran is merely re-interpretation after the fact So it's clear agreement with you that this fact is in quran and he get this in egyptian culture which was dimolished from thousands years before moha read Hirogliphics in this time and mohammed could make researches in th inscriptions till he became sure enogh from this fact before he show it to became sure of it now after the recent researches. I never said that. I‟m saying that it cannot be miraculous if it was already known people long before Muhammad. Don‟t try to put words in my mouth. How can gender determination be miraculous when it‟s already known by many Islam? hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: It's logic that if the current scintists didn't know the fact of source of iron by t researches, they will say about the egyptian declaration it's just immagination No. I‟m saying that it is not logical to claim that „iron from heaven‟ in the Quran „iron from heaven‟ by the ancient Egyptians is not miraculous. The ancient Egyptians got there first. Therefore, the Quran is not miraculous be first. The information about iron from heaven was already known by people. So miraculous?. That is great, but we didn't know that but after we discovered rosetta stone and revea did mohammed had a simmilar stone like rostta? that could help him to reach this info. muyths people say as a scintefic reference, Becouse he should verfy any info before to to deliver it to the whole world. Is that is clear now? and i didn't want you to say now t you to state that it's tru it's mentioned in quran this scintefic fact, is that's ok to u? Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: "]I will not talk about the phases of birth untill you declar like the the quran had these facts inside to: 1- the earth is ball but not a complete ball as the god said it's short from it's sides (norht and south) Which verse says that? Another repeated question why you dont read the prior posts? Please don‟t insult me again. IslamMiracles wrote: there are three verses 1-He has created the Heavens and the Earth for Truth. He balling the night up balling the day up in the night. (Qur'an, 39:5) In the Qur'an, the words used for describing the universe are quite remarkable which is translated as "to wrap" in the above verse is "takwir." In English, it me thing lap over another, folded up as a garment that is laid away." For instance dictionaries this word is used for the action of wrapping one thing around ano that a turban is put on. The information given in the verse about the day and each other up includes accurate information about the shape of the world. Th if the Earth is round. This means that in the Qur'an, which was revealed in the roundness of the world was hinted at. However, it should be remembered that the understanding of astronomy of th the world differently. It was then thought that the world was a flat plane and calculations and explanations were based on this belief. However, the Gloriou employed the most definitive words when it came to describing the universe. we could only correctly fathom in our century, have been in the Qur'an for a v The word is wrap – it‟s not ball. Wrap and ball are two different things. The verse also doesn‟t mention north and south but I think you made that up, di This translation is the old reference translation, in arabic it's writen we are balling not verses is (Nokawer) and Nokawer is the verb the name is Kora or korah, foot ball in ara and basket ball is korah salla, hand ball is korah yad. Now do you beleive the the word Kora is written or not you need just to look to arabic you need dictionary arabic to english, for many other words that is not used in the current arrabic language,You need an old know all the roots of the arabic words. like Mo3jam wajeez. (made about 1000 year ag hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: 2-You will see the mountains and reckon them to be solid; but they go past lik handiwork of Allah Who gives to everything its solidity. He is aware of what yo 27:8 The above verse emphasises that the Earth not only rotates but that it also ha rotation. The direction of movement of the main cloud masses at 3,500-4,000 always from West to East. That is why it is generally the state of the weather is looked at in meteorological forecasts.18 This is ridiculous. The verse is talking about a specific day – the Judgment Day w – see 27;87. It is not talking about the everyday event of earth rotation but wha Judgment Day. This is also repeated repeated repeated question that I already answered in this I said before the sequnce of verses are 1- 27:85 judjment day 2- 27:86 Another Amiracle and scintefic proof which says that the night is to still (reed that I posted in this debate) this verses only speak about scintefic facts and a creation 3- 27:87 judjment day again 4- 27:88 get back to speak about the god great creation of mountains (reed the details regarding this miracle wiht this debate of your loosers colleagues to get amazed) 5- 27:89 back to judjment day then rest of the Sora the god changed the subject completely and he is speaking to the so the god included his mightiness in creation (night and mountains movement) betwee reminding with judjment day Understood? hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: If only they had believed and had fear [and awareness of Allah]! A reward from Allah is better, if they only knew. (Qur‟an, 2:103) Do you not know that Allah is He to Whom the kingdom of the heavens and th that, besides Allah, you have no protector and no helper? (Qur‟an, 2:107) The main reason why cloud masses are pulled from West to East is the directio Earth rotates. As we now know, our Earth spins from West to East. This scient recently established by science, was revealed 1,400 years ago in the Qur‟an, a Earth was believed to be flat, and to be resting on the back of an ox. Since your interpretation of 27;88 is wrong – then your entire argument is false. Since inspiration is proofed to be right then the rest is right hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: 18. “Effects of Rotation (Coriolis Effect),” The Woodrow Wilson National Fello www.woodrow.org/teachers/esi/1998/p/weather/Corriolis.HTM. Meaningless. IslamMiracles wrote: 3-After that He (daha) out the earth. (Qur'an, 79:30) In the above verse, the word "daha" is used in the original Arabic. It, translate out," comes from the word "dahv," meaning "to spread." Although the word "da cover or to set out, the meaning of the verb is more than just a prosaic settin describes setting out in a circle. The concept of roundness is also present in other words derived from "dahv." word "dahv" also refers to children dropping a ball into a hole in the ground, g throwing stones into holes and games played with walnuts. Words derived from used for an ostrich making a nest, cleaning stones from where it is about to li where it lays its eggs and the egg itself. Indeed, the Earth is round, in a manner reminiscent of an egg. The slightly fla shape of the Earth is known as geoid. From that point of view, the use of the contains important information about the shape that Allah has given to the Ea of years, people imagined the Earth to be completely flat and only learned th technology. Yet, this fact was revealed in the Qur'an fourteen centuries ago. This is wrong. Ostrich egg is baydat al naama ‫ .ال ن عامة ب ي ضة‬Not dahaha. http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6713 the mentioned routs for the world is the arabic roots, you don't know the meaning of d roots. you can find that in the arabic arabic dictionary which called Mo3gam in arabic. thouthand year ago. Like Mo3gam Wageez. ‫ ال ن عامة ب ي ضة‬is another meaning of daha I agree, but there is many names for the same is primitive basics that everyone know. Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: 2- The 1st book to discribe the shape of the mountain not only from the a but also underground shap which is most of the mountain. This is not true. You learnt your geology from Islamist sites which use out-o pretend that mountain roots are like pegs. Yes, mountains do have roots bu already knew that long before Islam. Here is a picture in scale - can you see the mountains as pegs? . 1-You didnt bring any mountain picture you are tring to fool the audiance be truth. here is the pics of the pegs it's wonderfull. The 1s't full scintefic discribtion before it's defined as a peice of land over the level of the sea. how he sow t the ground? They are pegs or pins pins of the tent are just made like this shape dear aud Look at my picture again – see the Andes mountains? Aren‟t they mountains? Your pictures are NOT TO SCALE. Mine is.. even your pictur we can see a pointed end to the bottom like the pegs most of your mountain is underground and that is another meaning for pegs. the mountain consist of solid materials and arround it softer materials, like the pegs it arround it movable sands or soil, and that is a third meaning for pigs. there is fourth meaning but It may needs a lot of argue. your pic which is not detailed and show a primary phase of mounatain that may never mountains of the red sea where is fast movement of the two sides of the red sea, towa mountans and west to build the redsea mountains. You didn't tell me why my photos looks like pegs? Your photo is not detailed pic as mine the lines are strait that is impossible. it's not rea not true scaning. Becouse the line under any mountains is not strait like this and the drawer forgot to dr scanings and look to the western references mentioned in the web site below (quran m Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: 3- The Iron Is descnded from out side of earth. All elements heavier than Hydrogen and some Helium came from spa on Iron. I mentioned that before, pleeeeeeese reade the previous posts in this foru you cant do it? all your questions are repeated and I already answered. I said before Don‟t insult me again. If you want to debate me, debate me. Don‟t ask me to re won‟t. Get over it. Why you don't save our time and read it? I already debucted all that you are asking me hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: The verses don't list the substances that came from space the god is rem with the gift of iron.. So you don't agree it's a miracle but you agree that it's a known fact befor Mohammed, is that is ok with you? I don‟t understand what you‟re trying to say. How can something that was COMM Islam become a miracle if Muhammad writes it in the Quran? Again I ask you know to declare just that these scintefic facts all are mentioned in qura Then I will convince you again how it's a miracle. Hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: Hector wrote: Besides, the ancient Egyptians already believed iron came from space iron 'ba en pet' meaning metal from heaven. So you don't agree it's a miracle but you agree that it's a known fact befor Mohammed, is that is ok with you? he just collected all these info Don‟t put words in my mouth. I‟m saying it was commonly known. I didn‟t say he information. If lots of people know something how can it be a miracle if the Qur information? So at least you state with me that those scintefic facts are mentioned in quran ok? hector wrote: IslamMiracles wrote: Now you agreed that all the prior scintefic facts (1- the iron 2- the mountain s mentioned in quran or not yet? that is the level that I want you to reach. Say yes or no, and tell why if no, May God guide you No. Let me say this once: don‟t bring information that was already known as evidenc miraculous because it contains this information. This info may be true or false. I long as it was known before the Quran it cannot be miraculous for being in the Q Any more Quranic pseudoscience you want me to debunk? [/quote] So at least you state with me that those scintefic facts are mentioned in quran ok? say like this: Istate that all these mentioned scintefic known facts are mentioned in quran. _________________ find 1000s quran miracles here http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html Back to top yeezevee Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 5025 Quote: IslamMiracles: So at least you state with me that those scintefic facts are mentioned say like this: Istate that all these mentioned scintefic known facts are mentioned in quran. dear IslamMiracles, you have to realize, some of it what is there in Q'uran is so silly eve need Allah/God telling that to mr. Mohammad and some one else writing it in to a BOO http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=291271&highlight=#291271 with best regards yeezevee Back to top Black Trident Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:28 pm Post subject: Science If the Quran contains all the scientific facts that man have ever need to know, then wh Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Cave at Mount Hira the most scientifically advanded of them all? _________________ If Islam is a religion of peace, and is the fastest growing religion, then why is the world worse? Back to top Hector Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:28 am Post subject: IslamMiracles wrote: Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 4810 Location: Astroistan That is great, but we didn't know that but after we discovered rosetta stone and rev inscription did mohammed had a simmilar stone like rostta? that could help him to r depend of what muyths people say as a scintefic reference, Becouse he should verfy in a book that he want's to deliver it to the whole world. Is that is clear now? and i d that it's miraculas I just want you to state that it's tru it's mentioned in quran this sc u? Wrong. It was common knowledge. Did I say Muhammad discovered the Rosetta Stone? hieroglyphs? No. I said that was common knowledge, not that Muhammad copied it from the Egyptians. included in the book that iron came from heaven would my book be miraculous? No. Be in my book is common knowledge. IslamMiracles wrote: This translation is the old reference translation, in arabic it's writen we are balling n the verses is (Nokawer) and Nokawer is the verb the name is Kora or korah, foot bal quadam. and basket ball is korah salla, hand ball is korah yad. Now do you beleive the the word Kora is written or not you need just to look to arab verses, And you need dictionary arabic to english, for many other words that is not used in the current arrabic language,You need an o dictionarry to know all the roots of the arabic words. like Mo3jam wajeez. (made ab Read the verse again. The word kawwara is in reference to night and day – it is not in r coils the day and vice versa. You have merely tried to use the word kawwara in referen not night and day. yukawwiru allayla AAala alnnahari wayukawwiru alnnahara AAala allayli Kawwara night onto daytime and kawwara daytime onto nighttime az-Zumar 039:005 3 ‫ال شمس و سخر ال ل يل ع لى ال نهار وي كىر ال نهار ع لى ال ل يل ي كىر ب ال حق واالر ض ال سماوات خ لق 5:9 ‏‬ ‫ال غ فار ال عزي ز‬ Transliteration Khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda bialhaqqi yukawwiru allayla AAala alnna AAala allayli wasakhkhara alshshamsa waalqamara kullun yajree li-ajalin musamman al Literal He created the skies/space and the earth/Planet Earth, with the truth . He rota daytime, and He rotates/rolls the daytime on (to) the night, and He manipulated/subj each/all flows/orbits to a term/time, named/identified (specified), is He not the glori forgiving/often forgiver? Yusuf Ali He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Nig Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one f appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again? Pickthal He hath created the heavens and the earth with truth. He maketh night to suc to succeed night, and He constraineth the sun and the moon to give service, each runn Is not He the Mighty, the Forgiver? Arberry He created the heavens and the earth in truth, wrapping night about the day, night; and He has subjected the sun and the moon, each of them running to a stated te the All-forgiving? Shakir He has created the heavens and the earth with the truth; He makes the night co overtake the night, and He has made the sun and the moon subservient; each one runs surely He is the Mighty, the great Forgiver. Sarwar He has created the heavens and the earth for a genuine purpose. He covers the with the night and has subdued the sun and the moon, each of which floats for an appo Majestic and All-Forgiving. Khalifa He created the heavens and the earth truthfully. He rolls the night over the da night. He committed the sun and the moon, each running for a finite period. Absolutel Forgiving. Hilali/Khan He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night t day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving. Malik He created the heavens and the earth to manifest the Truth. He causes the night day to overtake the night. He has subjected the sun and the moon to His law, each one appointed term. Is He not the All-Mighty, the All- Forgiving?[5] QXP He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth to fulfill a definite Purpose. H and rolls the day over the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon, each run appointed. Is not He the Almighty, the Ever-Absolver of Imperfections? Maulana Ali He has created the heavens and the earth with truth; He makes the night c day overtake the night, and He has made the sun and the moon subservient; each one Now surely He is the Mighty, the Forgiver. Free Minds He created the heavens and the Earth with truth. He rolls the night over th the night. And He committed the sun and the moon, each running for an appointed ter the Forgiving. IslamMiracles wrote: This is also repeated repeated repeated question that I already answered in this roo You are an annoying little kid. Why don‟t we start all over again, just you and me? IslamMiracles wrote: I said before the sequnce of verses are 1- 27:85 judjment day 2- 27:86 Another Amiracle and scintefic proof which says that the night is to still (re the rates that I posted in this debate) this verses only speak about scintefic facts an Judjment day 3- 27:87 judjment day again 4- 27:88 get back to speak about the god great creation of mountains (reed the deta before regarding this miracle wiht this debate of your loosers colleagues to get ama 5- 27:89 back to judjment day Wrong. The mountains moving as clouds happen during judgment day. You‟re misinterp Judgment day to something happening today then Judgment Day and then to somethin then back to Judgment Day etc. You fool nobody. All those events are supposed to take place on Judgment Day. IslamMiracles wrote: then rest of the Sora the god changed the subject completely and he is speaking to so the god included his mightiness in creation (night and mountains movement) betw reminding with judjment day Understood? Yes. You‟re stupid. Show me how mountains can move like clouds. IslamMiracles wrote: Since inspiration is proofed to be right then the rest is right IslamMiracles wrote: http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6713 the mentioned routs for the world is the arabic roots, you don't know the meaning o arabic roots. you can find that in the arabic arabic dictionary which called Mo3gam down thouthand year ago. Like Mo3gam Wageez. ‫ ال ن عامة ب ي ضة‬is another meaning of daha I agree, but there is many names for the sa language, that is primitive basics that everyone know. Bull. Show me something from Arabic language that speaks of daha as Ostrich egg, othe „pseudoscience‟ polemics. Why don‟t you get an Arabic article that talks about Ostrich eggs and see what the wor IslamMiracles wrote: even your pictur we can see a pointed end to the bottom like the pegs You have pegs that look like flat wedges? Show me a peg that looks like that. Just beca doesn‟t make it a peg. Lots of things have pointy ends – does that make them pegs? IslamMiracles wrote: most of your mountain is underground and that is another meaning for pegs. the mountain consist of solid materials and arround it softer materials, like the pegs and arround it movable sands or soil, and that is a third meaning for pigs. Pigs? Hahahahahaha. Just because something is underground doesn‟t make it a peg. IslamMiracles wrote: there is fourth meaning but It may needs a lot of argue. All your arguments are stupid. IslamMiracles wrote: your pic which is not detailed and show a primary phase of mounatain that may neve the mountains of the red sea where is fast movement of the two sides of the red sea the Hegaz mountans and west to build the redsea mountains. Show your picture – I don‟t believe youl IslamMiracles wrote: You didn't tell me why my photos looks like pegs? Because they‟re not to scale. IslamMiracles wrote: Your photo is not detailed pic as mine the lines are strait that is impossible. it's not for study not true scaning. Because your pictures are not to scale. IslamMiracles wrote: Becouse the line under any mountains is not strait like this and the drawer forgot to at my scanings and look to the western references mentioned in the web site below It‟s a schematic diagram. Have you seen geological stratigraphic diagrams? Have you se are as straight as arrows. IslamMiracles wrote: Why you don't save our time and read it? I already debucted all that you are asking m If we asked you you‟d still be thinking mountains are pegs. IslamMiracles wrote: Again I ask you know to declare just that these scintefic facts all are mentioned in q Then I will convince you again how it's a miracle. Why should I declare there are scientific facts in the Quran when there aren‟t? IslamMiracles wrote: So at least you state with me that those scintefic facts are mentioned in quran ok? No. IslamMiracles wrote: So at least you state with me that those scintefic facts are mentioned in quran ok? say like this: Istate that all these mentioned scintefic known facts are mentioned in quran. No. _________________ They call us haters and hate-mongers, yet they believe in such verses as 'kill the pagan (9:5)'. Who're the real the haters and hate-mongers? Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts Oldest First Go All times are GMT Faith Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next Freedom International Forum Index -> The Quran and Hadith Page 7 of 8