VIEWS: 9 PAGES: 9 POSTED ON: 8/13/2009
Please Mr. Huxley don’t start replying before you read my reply completely, because my Ideas complete each other, That’s why you mentioned many contrary ideas in the same page. [quote="THHuxley"][quote="IslamMiracles"]if the god didn't say that the source of iron is sent down so it's going to be a scintefic error because now we discovered that Iron is completely sent down even the Iron in the sands or in lava, because Iron produced from outside the solar system unlike many other metals that produced inside the solar system. That's about the recent knowlage.[/quote] That is not recent knowledge, because it is not even true. Every single element other than hydrogen and helium (and this includes all the metals, not just iron) came from exactly the same ultimate source. [b]All metals[/b] on this planet were “produced outside the solar system.” ?[/quote] You agree with me here that Iron is completely sent down, Quran said that also because there is no errors in quran. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]About the past no any wise man will say that Iron comes completely from outside because the sands are full of Iron every where in the earth, and there is Iron from places dosn't seams like metiorites completely.[/quote] And no wise man [b]ever did[/b] say that iron comes [b]completely[/b] from outside the solar system. Certainly, the Qur’an never says so. ?[/quote] No the god said, we sent down the Iron, and (the) means all the iron not a kind of iron. Because if a type and not all in Arabic we say an iron. Not the Iron. And if the god said another source but being sent down so it’s going to be a fatal error, because people will discover that Iron is completely sent down, That is a recent knowlage we knew it after recent researches around the atom scince [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]By logic there maybe geneius researchers can discover that metiorites contain Iron, but they can't say that all the iron are sent down like in quran untill they become atom scintists and know that Iron nuclear mass is heavy and can't be produced in the solar system.[/quote] The Qur’an never says that “all iron” are sent down. And the Qur’an completely misses the fact that all other metals were “sent down” too. .[/quote] Quran didn’t say that only the Iron was sent down. Quran in this verses was just talking about Iron and wasn’t listing all the substances, the verses says (we sent down Iron it have a heavy strength and benefits for the people.) It’s just to remind the people with the gift of Iron, Not listing substances. The Idea that the god always choose the letters and word without a scientific error. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]even if they could know that metiorites contain Iron they will not say that iron is comletely from upside because there is Iron in the surface from stones dosn't seem like metiorites. They can't know that Iron is completely from out side but after the scince of the atom.[/quote] And the Qur’an didn’t know that either. It certainly never says so. So there is no miracle. .[/quote] No the god said, we sent down the Iron, and (the) means all the iron not a kind of iron. Because if a type and not all in Arabic we say an iron. Not the Iron. And if the god said another source but being sent down so it’s going to be a fatal error, because people will discover that Iron is completely sent down, That is a recent knowlage we knew it after recent researches around the atom scince And because the god choose accurate words with accurancy reach always 100%, He chose the verb sent down. So the miracle is clear to you now. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]Remember that I'm Egyptologist and I studied how we translate the Egyptian text. and who the basic vocabulary are known, 90% of the translation is by Immagination of the last translator and even the basic vocabulary is also from Immagination of the Egyptologists, and they mesure the new known sentences to an old known sentences to bring out the meaning while the old known sentences is orginally Immaginative also. That's why the accurance of translation never exceeds 10% if the translator is geneious.[/quote] Nothing you wrote there makes sense. Either we can translate them, or we can’t. All the references I refer to say we can translate them. I do not have any good reason to bleiev that you are an Egyptologist. If you were, then you would have already known yourself that the Egyptians were familiar with meteoric iron. .[/quote] There is a week chance they know the meteoric Iron which is not all the Iron, but that will not make them say that iron is originally sent down like quran said because they can distinguish the existence of iron in all places, the surface, the mines the mountains, and many stones doesn’t seems like meteorites., So 100% they didn’t say about Iron that it’s a metal from the sky in general like the anti Muslim like to translate only after Muslims said that it’s mentioned in quran. No body could say that but the god. That Indicate that the anti muslims don’t find a reply to the muslims every time they say we discovered a certain recently known scientific facts In Quran, So the anti Muslims just hide behind the unknown and mysterious civilizations to the people, and fabricate proofs to say to people that it’s a common knowlage. But they didn’t notice that it’s imposibble to Egyptians to know the atom science so they can say the metals are from the sky. AND there is no any chance they know the atom scince. So they say that Iron is completely sent down like quran did. The point that quran didn’t make mistake about this and you agree. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]No before you declare that Iron is only from outside, because before we know the atom, Iron was known that it's inside earth and in mines and most of the surface not only from outside of earth. as after we hade the atom scince we discovered that even the Iron in Lava is from outside, Tipically as quran says. (that it's only from outside)[/quote] The Qur’an never says that. [/quote] No the god said, we sent down the Iron, and (the) means all the iron not a kind of iron. Because if a type and not all in Arabic we say an iron. Not the Iron. And if the god said another source but being sent down so it’s going to be a fatal error, because people will discover that Iron is completely sent down, That is a recent knowlage we knew it after recent researches around the atom scince You can read by yourself If you don’t believe, And you can read any of the miracles I listed here. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]I'm from earth from where you are? No any old book speak about recently known phenomenas without mistake you can say that all of the old difinitions are tottaly wrong, [/quote] To include the Qur’an. [/quote] Till now no any could find a scintefic error, you can try by yourself, Just go threw the listings I made here, where you find all the errors they thought it’s errors I debunked all of them, and no body could say a word, also the listed scintefic facts here, that is recently discovered no body could say that it’s not recently discovered, and that is no any old book have the dare to speak about it and say there is no mistake. Try your best, If you found an error, Honestly I will be the 1 st one to quit Islam. I will never believe that there is a god who make errors. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]Do you mean that The antiant Egyptians or the roman discovered the atom scince and mohammed had an acess to books that we don't know, [/quote] Nope. And Muhammad didn’t know atomic science either. There is no trace of any such knowledge anywhere in the Qur’an. [/quote] I agree that the messenger was ignorant, He is not the one who have the knowlage so he don’t make a scintefic errors, the speaker is the god, the creator of every thing. Mohammed is just a messenger and a performer of quran by the directing of the god. To give the people the regulations needed in the incoming centuries to save the rights and save the nature. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]Just to mention the source of Iron while the aim of the verses is only to remind the people with the gift of the Iron. Why should mohammed make all these researches just to mention the word sent down, he can avoid talking about the source.[/quote] There was absolutely no reason for Muhammad to mention the source of iron. And in fact, it is not clear that he had the slightest clue as to the source of iron. He certainly never says that it is from “outside the solar system.” He says only that it was “sent down.” There is no miracle there. .[/quote] No the god said, we sent down the Iron, and (the) means all the iron not a kind of iron. Because if a type and not all in Arabic we say an iron. Not the Iron. And if the god said another source but being sent down so it’s going to be a fatal error, because people will discover that Iron is completely sent down, That is a recent knowlage we knew it after recent researches around the atom scince. I repeat Mohammed is The Ignorant messenger as the god said. He never read and he never right down any thing. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"][quote="THHuxley"]First off, bees [b]do not eat from all fruits[/b]. They are very selective in what they eat from, and many bees are so specialized that they can only eat from one particular type of flower.?[/quote] The thing that the bee eat is Thamarat(pl) Thamara(singular), I looked it up in the arabic english dictionery (Elias acadimic Arabic English Dic)it's meaning is (To bear, yield, produce fruit, to fructify, Fruit, product: yeld, advantage, benifit, profit, gain, effect, result)[/quote] Hey, [b]you[/b] gave us the translation. If you don’t like the one you first gave us, then give us another. But don’t whine about it. )[/quote] It’s not me it’s the dictionary, You don’t consider dictionaries as a correct way of translation? Quran was in Arabic because the Arabs were the best in lingual abilities and scinces in the time of mohammed, and the Arabic language have a science called Balagha, which means haw to pass the biggest quantity of information’s using the fewest words and with the best accuracy, This was before Mohammed come. As the poems was very advanced and very rich with Ideas and feelings, and the best poet is the one who have more Balagha, And because the aim of the last message is to pass to us the biggest quantity of informations in a small book like quran, so the best language was the Arabic. Any way the verses said that Bees select the food, and that it travel to find a certain food, and she go to a planed trip. So this travel is Just to find the selected food. Also the god says it follow the ways (or courses or tracks) of the god humbly, The meaning of ways means a start and destinations. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]The god we can't say that he is Geneius because word geneus is for humans, and he is the creator. He used a word tipically discribe wht kind of food the female bee is looking for:[/quote] So will any five year old child. :[/quote] Read again the translation of word Thamarat. Even you or some body more smart, will never choose this word as a collection of the types of food, also the rest of the verses speak about the traveling of the bee, so It says it travel to selected food. Told you to read the Ideas together they complete each other, The speech of the god is not like us, He can mention a plenty of complete Ideas in small sentence, Or else the quran will be very big, and never accurate if you tried to extract all the Ideas you will fail. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]If you studied the plants you will find the green group is the place of production, and the substances produced in theis group are the substances go to the flowers, fruits some times stored in other places like roots, the female bee can eat any of these places as long as it contain the production of the green group. look again to the meanings of the word to know who accurate the god choose the words.[/quote] The “green group?” As opposed to what? The paisley group? Nothing in that paragraph can be found in the Qur’an, so who cares? .[/quote] Told you to read the complete Idea before to reply, This paragraph to describe why the choice of word Thamarat. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"][quote="THHuxley"]Second, bees do not follow tracks (though ants do). They navigate based on vectors and distances, augmented by pheromonic smells.[/quote] You should read more, 1the bee is going in many directions in here trip not streat directions so she can make measurements, even the humans can't do such way for this fast navigation she make without a smart computer software, Global positioning sytem using satellite, as she change the directions with fast concequence. and to go to a pre planed ditination and come back to the fixed home, she should have an advanced photography scaning (may be using satellites more advanced than the current to capture detailed info about the plants needed, in an area counted with hundred miles)[/quote] And none of that is found anywhere in the Qur’an. All the Qur’an says is that bees follow tracks. But they don’t/.[/quote] they follow ways or courses of the god, because till now no body knows haw the bee navigate alone and cross deserts, crossing deserts means She don’t use smelles, and traveling alone means no other bee give her the order, You mention a very old theory that is not according to the recent scince. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]smells don't cross the deserts that she travel threw where is no trees arround to record it's smells for example. If you want to say that there is no preplaned distination (againest the recently known fact that the bee know where she is going although the distination is so far away)[/quote] And all without tracks. [/quote] You didn’t disagree but in the word tracks, well the translation of Sobol, is ways or courses, Notice that she will never cross deserts without to have a destination, So she is following a planed trip. The one who orders here is the god, Just like the recently born child who is blind and the god told him haw to move his mouth to suck the milk. It’s planed by the god. The bee do that to benefit the people, that is planed also. [quote="IslamMiracles"]anyway you can distinguish the how complicated the unknown system orders that she receive to folow it's planed directions to go to a pre planed distination where is the kind of plant production needed, Just like the verses says, and folow the (ways, roads, traks) of your god (humbele, in humbele way) a drink comes from here belly with different colors which have a cure to the people. That’s a clear proof to those who think deeply(or alot)} [/quote] Too bad bees don’t really follow tracks at all. [quote="IslamMiracles"]The bee is receiving orders from the god like anything in the word (like the baby when he is blind and the god told hime haw to move his mouth to suke the milk.[/quote] No. The bees are following directions given by other bees. The bees communicate a direction and a distance. Once there, the bees are led the final few feet by smell. It is a very simple and elegant solution. And God never has to even get involved. [/quote] Too bad They follow ways or courses of the god, because till now no body knows haw the bee navigate alone and cross deserts and who is telling here the destination before she start the trip, and no way to com home after the many directions she follow, She wil lose the map because she is not flying street, Crossing deserts means She don’t use smelles to record the places because desert are sands only, and traveling alone means no other bee give her the order, You mention a very old theory that is not according to the recent science. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]The god orders quantity and speed is uncounted, It's order every singel atom and electron as you knaw haw much information the atom need to keep alife the god said (If the the sea was an ink to the words of the god the god will run out before the words finish, even if we used another sea in the same time) In a great example of the quantity and speed of informations processed (wrong exprition). Yes quran told us haw the bee navigate.[/quote] Nope. The Qur’an is wrong in its description of how bees navigate. It says they follow tracks. But they don’t. .[/quote] Too bad They follow ways or courses of the god, because till now no body knows haw the bee navigate alone and cross deserts and who is telling here the destination before she start the trip, and no way to come back home after the many directions she follow, She will lose the map because she is not flying street, Crossing deserts means She don’t use smells to record the places because desert are sands only, and traveling alone means no other bee give her the order, You mention a very old theory that is not according to the recent science. The secret of the bee is the same secret of the clouds as it travel for mile just for our sake to have rivers and freshwater to resurrect a dead land so it have plants that let the humans survive till now, all of that is planed not by chance. The god is the secret behind all these planes. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"] [quote="THHuxley"]Third, bees do not actually produce honey from their bellies. They drink nectar, partially digest it, and deposit the result (still not honey) in the hive. It only becomes honey (the drink of Muhammad’s reference) later through a process of directed evaporation that occurs outside their bellies..?[/quote] the god didn't say honey he was accurate, yet you made me discover a new Miracle to me, the god didn't say honey come out, he saied liquid (Sharab) Honey means (Asal)[/quote] But humans do not ever eat, drink or use as medicine what comes out of bees bellies. They eat, drink and use as medicine honey. So it appears (again) that Muhammad didn’t exactly get his facts right. [/quote] Too bad Do you mean that the liquid comes out from the bee never have a medicine? And will never become honey? Sorry this liquid become honey alone, and It does have a medicin for the people. So there is no error. [quote="THHuxley"][ [quote="IslamMiracles"]the mass of the Iron that let us know that it's produced tottaly from outside the earth, The complicated navigation system the bee use to go to it's preplaned ditinations accross deserts, without to use a GPS and satelleit maps. and the kind of the worker bee is femal without error. Are Those are general knowlage to be discussed on the back of camels at arabia? by ignorent pweople who don't read.[/quote] No, but that’s okay, because the Qur’an never says any of those things either. The Qur’an says only that iron is “sent down.” It says nothing about iron’s mass, where it is produced, or that it is totally from outside the earth. .[/quote] As long as quran said the right source of all the iron without Mohammed or any other one know the Atom, Then the speaker is the god who created the Iron, and created all the Metals. [quote="THHuxley"][ The Qur’an says that bees follow tracks, which they don’t. It says nothing about GPS and satellites, preplanned destinations, or complicated navigation systems. .[/quote] Yes the god mentioned the navigation system as a miracle that shows his abilities in creation, and we are till now don’t know how She know the destination before starting the trip, and don’t know who she come back home without to lose time. Without using sounds, smelles, Or help from any other bee, as she cross the deserts alone where no smelles, no sounds, and even a GPS and a satellite map She is not that clever to have the well to make for here self a planed job like this to serve humans, As the god always mention many objects or creatures that doesn’t have the well and ability to know the other objects needs, although all the objects are a part of the circle in the environment, Just to show us that there is somebody managed these relations and balances to make this accurate circle, measurements, and balances. The three objects in this verses are the bee, the food of the bee that she travel to collect it, the humans who have so many cures from the work of the bee. These relations are planed by the god and are not by chance. [quote="THHuxley"][ And the Qur’an simply uses a female noun for bee. It never says that bees are female. .[/quote] Error, Word Bee in Arabic is Plural (Nahl) is mascular the singular is Nahla feminine. The god didn’t mention the bee as plural while the topic needs to talk about the plural as it’s speaking about a phenomena. So the god choosed the singular so it will be feminine. So no scientific error will happen. If the Iron by chance the god said it’s sent down, and the bee is feminine by chance also, and the god didn’t say honey get out from here but said liquid as this liquid becomes honey. If all of these facts recently known mentioned by chance without single error, So what about the rest 1000s sentences that speak also about recently known phenomena and definitions without a single mistake? Where is your logic? The only answer is that Mohammed the Ignorant messenger is not the speaker, He is the god who created every thing.
"Iron and bee"