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The Israeli Beast

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					The Israeli Beast
June 14th, 2007

With a civil war raging in the PA, comparisons can be most helpful in understanding the
players and arena (a more serious discussion of the Palestinian civil war can be found
here and here).

Israel, a nation the size of New Jersey, can only lay claim to the following achievements:

Israel has more museums per capita than any other country in the world.

Israel has the second highest output of books published per citizen in the world.

Israelis hold more patents per person than do citizens of any other nation.

More than 85% of all solid waste in Israel is treated in an environmentally sound manner.

Israeli companies, Amdocs, Comverse and Nice pioneered voicemail, SMS and other
cellular phone services.

Israel has the highest concentration of high tech companies industries in the world,
relative to it‘s population.

ICQ, the technology that powers AOL Instant Messenger, was developed in 1996 by a
team of 4 young Israelis.

Israeli start-up company TransChip developed the first high resolution camera that fits on
a single electronic chip, for use in cellular phones.

Israel is one of only eight countries in the world capable of launching their own satellites
into space.

Israelis developed the world‘s first cellphone at the Motorola research lab in Haifa, that
companies largest research center in the world.

Israel ranks third, after the US and Canada, in the number of publicly traded companies
on Wall Street.

Israel has more scientists and engineers per capita than any other nation in the world.

American industry giants such as GM, Ford and Lockheed Martin manage their
manufacturing facilities using software written by Tecnomatix, an Israeli company.

Israeli company Given Imaging developed a video camera small enough to fit inside of a
pill. The camera helps doctors diagnose digestive tract diseases.


Page 1 of 22
Israeli scientists developed the first computerized radiation free diagnostic scanning
device for detecting breast cancer.

Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation in the world.

Not bad for the offspring of monkeys and pigs.

To be fair, the Palestinians have the greatest number of suicide bombers per capita, as
well as the largest number of openly terrorist organizations in the world.

The Arab world can lay claim to the greatest number of openly anti semitic regimes and
populations in the world, by any standard of measurement. There are more copies of
Mein Kampf sold in Arabic today than in any other language. In fact, the only volume
more popular in Arab homes is the Quran.

According to UN Human Development Report, the Arab world has the lowest standard of
education in the world, save for sub Saharan Africa. Given that there are virtually no
schools in sub Saharan Africa, that is quite an educational milestone.

Of course, who the Palestinians are is no secret. We have seen those realities for decades.
What is more interesting is to see those who doggedly support the Palestinians, despite
seeing the barbarism first hand. That says a whole lot more about them than it does about
the Palestinians.

For more ‗Cool Facts‘ about Israel, see this.

Posted by SC&A Filed in Uncategorized

24 Responses to “The Israeli Beast”

   1. perfektm Says:
        June 15th, 2007 at 9:26 pm

        Yet Palis enjoys largest per capita help in world… and cry the song that they have
        nothing to do…nothing to eat, and had nothing to do with Terrorism….


   2.        peoplesgeography Says:
        June 16th, 2007 at 3:27 am

        Yes, I have to hand it to you, recalling Israel‘s Pyrrhic achievements built on
        stolen land and resources. I particularly appreciate the clear racist demarcation
        between them and us, the identification of Israel with Europe and the West (never
        part of its own Middle East region with which it refuses to reconcile) and the
        disdaining and clear contempt towards its neighbours. You wouldn‘t harbour a
        superiority complex, would you? Surely not. The ‗Cool Facts‘ has another far
        uglier side, here. But that might be too even-handed for you. I recently included


Page 2 of 22
        both URLs, and criticised both. I do not deny I criticise Israel quite a bit, and I can
        appreciate that you have sought to be loyal to your ―side‖. I am aiming to
        dispense with these false categories, and make peace my ―side‖.

        If you can read Hebrew, you may wish to consider reading Avrum Burg‘s new
        book, Defeating Hitler (not yet available in English). All is not rosy in Israel, just
        as it isn‘t in the OPT. We need to stop the empty triumphalism and chestbeating
        and demonisation from and of both sides. Perhaps when we are at that point, we
        can start talking, imperfectly and humbly, but with some sort of authentic
        engagement.


   3.        peoplesgeography Says:
        June 16th, 2007 at 3:47 am

        The Arab world can lay claim to sheltering Jews when Europe was discriminating
        against them only a hundred years ago, a third of the Baghdad‘s population was
        Jewish and Jews were respected), to astounding astronomical and mathematical
        discoveries, to numerous critical inventions such as the surgical instruments we
        use to this day, to preserving and translating the Greek and Roman texts that
        became the foundation for western civilisation. And more. And I‘d be happy to
        provide detailed scholarly references.

        Perhaps more prosaically but quite astutely, this comment was posted by Ernst
        from Amsterdam in response to Amira Hass‘ article in Ha‘aretz ‗Can you really
        not see?‘ and seemed apposite in a blog of this content. He writes:

                “The bully beats up his neighbours because his parents were murdered by
                their neighbours in another city. He isn‟t surprised to see how hated he is.
                He says to himself: „my family has always been hated and will always be
                hated by all neighbours. I only defend myself against possible new murder
                attacks against me‟, he argues.

                As soon as he would realise that his neighbours are like him, people that
                want to be treated with justice and respect, his problems would be
                resolved. But he doesn‟t want to know this, because knowing this would
                completely change his world view and his daily life, and the thought of
                that scares him even more.

                Changing ones habits is very difficult, especially for a traumatised person.
                Only a person that has the complete trust of the traumatised can help him.
                In this case, the uncle from the US would be the best help for the patient,
                through the difficult period of self-analysis and self-healing.

                The dim voice of his conscience (Hass, Levi) is not enough.”




Page 3 of 22
        That, in a nutshell, is how Israel is perceived by many today. Arabs do not have a
        congenital loathing of Jews. In fact it seems to be the other way around, as
        documented in annual Israeli polls. Anti-semitism today is overwhelmingly about
        discrimination against Arabs, not Jews.

        Only mutual understanding, respect and tikkun olam can help us get past this
        trauma, not them and us demonisation.

   4. expat Says:
        June 16th, 2007 at 5:59 am

        I mistakenly clicked on the link to pg‘s travel diaries. It‘s amazing to learn that
        even the dogs in Europe are more civilized. How did that important fact escape
        me? I guess that when you only spend a few weeks in a foreign country, you have
        a better chance of seeing the big picture.


   5.        SC&A Says:
        June 16th, 2007 at 7:02 am

        People‘s Geography- What utter claptrap and bullshit.

        To what stoen land are you referring? The land that ws partitioned by the UN in
        1948 or the land won in 1967 after Egypt and Syria kicked out UN peacekeepers,
        massed troops and tanks on Israels‘ borders and threatened her destruction?

        Do you have even the most basic understanding of geo-politics? Do you know
        that virtually every country comes into existence by virtue of conflict?

        Israel‘s achievements are a matter of record. Arab world failure are a matter of
        record. That you deem fot to label achievement as ‗European‘ and as part of the
        ‗west‘ only highlights your own bigotry.

        The UN Report on Human Development puts Arab world education levels as the
        lowest in the world, save for sub Saharan Africa (and there are few schools in sub
        Saharan Africa) is not Israel‘s doing. That is a choice that Arab leaders have
        made- Israel is not to blame for Arab failure.

        Speaking of ‗your side,‘ why not address current well documented and
        overwhelming racism, bigotry and hate that emanate every single day in Arab
        world media, school curriculum and religious institutions every day.

        It is irrelevant how ‗may‘ perceive Israel today- that is a matter of opinion.

        The problems in the ME today have little to do with Israel- those problems are the
        result of some of the most evil and dysfunctional regimes in the world.



Page 4 of 22
       The Lebanese are bombing the hell out of the Palestinians- and for some reason,
       that doesn‘t bother you.

       In Algeria, the GIA raped children before dismembering them- yet that was not a
       big enough problem for the Arab world to be concerned with.

       Jews came to Israel as real victims of Nazism. The built a democratic state with
       world class institutions, educational systems and an economy that is spectacular.

       The Arabs, for whom ‗We‘ll finish what Hitler started‘ and whose religious
       leaders in Saudi Arabia proclaim on telethons that the rape of Jewish women and
       little girls is obligatory on Muslims, are not the equals of the Israelis in any sense-
       certainly not in the mo5ral sense. ITBACH AL YAHUD!= the calls to
       ‗SLAUGHTER THE JEWS!- are not a civilized religious or political expression.

       What the Arabs have done in the past is irrelevant- today, because of their
       political and bastardized religious redefinition, they are a backward, bigoted and
       racist people. Those aren‘t my words- they are the words of Arab dissidents, who
       long to see their people lifted out of the garbage heap they live in. Rather than
       come to the defense of those who would save their nation (and coincidentally
       have less of a problem with Israel than you do), you choose to identify with the
       dysfunctional leaders that imprison them.

       That you defend the beasts that gave adopted the ideologies and beliefs of some of
       the most dysfunctional and repressive regimes in the world, speaks more about
       you than it does about the Arabs that have no escape from their oppressors.

       Peace in the region is not that difficult to achieve:

       * Cessation of hostilities and terror
       * Secure borders.
       * Diplomatic recognition of Israel.

       Those are the minimum requirements as noted by Israel, the UN, the US, and the
       EU.

       Which of those requirements are too onerous?

   6. Islam skeptic Says:
       June 16th, 2007 at 7:37 am

       The problems in the ME today have little to do with Israel- those problems are the
       result of some of the most evil and dysfunctional regimes in the world.

       And they are evil and dysfunctional because they are Islamic regimes.




Page 5 of 22
        (…) today, because of their political and bastardized religious redefinition, they
        are a backward, bigoted and racist people.

        Actually, they‘re just ordinary followers of ordinary Islam. Islam has not been
        redefined.


   7.        peoplesgeography Says:
        June 16th, 2007 at 10:54 am

        Points 1-5

        I pity you for sincerely believing your own claptrap, if that is a label you wish to
        use.

        Taking it item by item:

        1. The land that continues to be stolen to this day in expanding illegal settlements,
        in the only country that refuses to define its own borders. From only the last
        week, from only February this year. And here‘s a recently declassified document
        that shows Israel knew it was constructing illegal settlements, from the
        mainstream press.

        2. I could ask the same of you. I‘d be extremely surprised if you could hold up
        comparable professional qualifications in geopolitics, which I happen to teach.
        But even if you didn‘t, I‘m not about to denounce talented non-professional
        punters, and attempting derision as a debating tactic won‘t work with me. Adept
        at geopolitical analysis you are not. You do shrill propaganda well, though. The
        fact that most states in the Westphalian system have come about through conflict
        in no way absolves Israel of its continuing crimes.

        3. You can not judge as bigoted something I did not say. Where exactly do I
        identify achievement as western European, in pointing out that Israel likes to
        identify with Europe rather than the Middle East? In fact I uphold Arab
        achievement, which is in fact a matter of record and which you conveniently
        attempt to gloss over. Israel‘s failures are a matter of record as well as the
        challenges Arab states face. With one in three children in Israel living in poverty
        and discrimination against women in Haredim society, as well as widespread
        racist attitudes and more people leaving the country, again, Israel is hardly as rosy
        as you claim. And it exists armed to the teeth like a garrison state perpetually
        afraid and unwilling to make peace and end the occupation, and launching a
        despicable attack on Lebanon that showed up its bellicosity.

        4. Arab education. Indicators are very generalised and mask a lot of diversity in
        the region. A highly educated Lebanese student is vastly different from a Saudi
        one. Yes, militarised and often corrupt puppet Arab regimes do have to take
        responsibility for this and be made accountable. But it not wholly internal either,


Page 6 of 22
        just as it can not be blamed on entirely on external factors. I recommend reading
        up on Dependency theory, wherein industrialising countries are thwarted in their
        modernisation endeavours through several factors, such as debilitating debt,
        which keeps them down. This is an external factor.

        5. Who said addressing racism, bigotry and hate wasn‘t a priority, both in Israel
        and the Arab world? Yet you somehow suggest that it is endemic to the Arab
        world, who by and large have a problem with Israel as an exclusivist and imposed
        state, not a problem with Jews? Yes, I do not deny there is some anti-Jewish
        sentiments as there are across the world, but you conveniently inflate them to suit
        your own hateful and rabidly anti-Arab worldview. Israel‘s actions feeds this
        which in turn increases the bigotry and resentment — vicious cycle. The racism in
        Israel is also quite marked and well documented, (J-Post, March 2007) with an
        openly racist Dep PM in Lieberman. Racism exists and needs to be countered.
        Israel does not have a monopoly on virtue — or victimhood.

        As to Arab world media, may I suggest you not rely upon the increasingly
        disregarded MEMRI if you do so? I understand Arabic and most networks are
        widely inclusive and far from racist. Anyone can cherry-pick the most apparently
        racist statements and disingenuously present them as the representative and
        definitive view. Thankfully Al Jazeera also broadcasts in English, with Jewish
        reporters, though the neocon ideologues in the US block effectively block it, at
        least so far. So much for a free society.


   8.        peoplesgeography Says:
        June 16th, 2007 at 11:03 am

        Part 2: Points 6-12

        6. On the contrary, some of the problems in the ME today do indeed have
        something to do with Israel. It is a straw man argument to claim that I would be
        blaming Israel for everything, as that would be clearly absurd. Corruption and
        dysfunctionality have been features of Arab governments, and I might add, the
        present Israel administrations as well. Again, neither side has a patent on
        corruption. Some concrete examples. Lebanon, a bustling and fragile democracy
        albeit with a delicate power balance between its confessions has, directly because
        of their expulsion from their native villages in what is now Israel, inherited
        Palestinian refugees in a dozen refugee camps who now number a tenth of the
        population. Do you expect any country not to encounter any problems when it
        takes on such a large number of refugees equivalent to a tenth of its population?
        The simmering social tensions, economic question and political climate would be
        substantially affected. Yet Lebanon took them in, though they didn‘t enjoy full
        citizenship rights, they were looked after.

        7 . Not quite right — a sin of omission here. While the Lebanese Army has
        targeted the group of mostly foreign fighters (who are not Palestinians) of Fatah


Page 7 of 22
       al-Islam imported into the camp, it is true that innocent civilian Palestinian lives
       were lost. It is wildly inaccurate (‖claptrap‖ if you like) to claim that the Lebanese
       were ―bombing the Palestinians.‖ I suggest you read Seymour Hersh and Franklin
       Lamb here. Just a suggestion, if indeed you are open to reading challenging
       material and not simply material that fits your prefabricated ideology. I‘d be
       happy to consider any reading you recommend, in turn.

       8. Though a deplorable act, I‘ve yet to see what relevance that has to the
       discussion at hand. For an Algerian atrocity, there is an Israeli one, a German one,
       a British one. And the silence and complicity exists everywhere.

       9. Some of the postwar Jews came to Israel as real victims of Nazism, certainly.
       Some Zionists (did you expect them all to be lily-white?) also colluded with the
       Nazis to expedite the population transfer to the nascent Israeli state, sacrificing
       lives in the process. See Lenni Brenner‘s scholarship in this area. But many
       settlers today come to Israel not as a result of discrimination but as a result of the
       promise of highly subsidised housing (The Forward), made cheaper in part
       through the unwitting largesse of the US taxpayer.

       A democratic state? Try telling that to a fifth of Israel‘s citizens, who are
       discriminated against (enshrined in law such as forbidding family reunification)
       and who experience otherwise, and treated like a fifth column. Within the Jewish
       citizens too, Ethiopian Jews have staged major rallies against discrimination
       against them. It is the Ashkenazi Jews who are not even native to the ME who
       exert the most power, at best only a dozen or so families really.

       Much of the rest of the world is so disgusted with Israel‘s actions, many unions
       (UK, South Africa) have voted to boycott these supposedly world class
       institutions. Lebanon also has world class institutions, but I‘ve not heard so much
       chest-beating and chauvinism as here. Its very telling.

       10. You cite an abhorrent incidence of racism in Saudi Arabia, and conflate that
       with the whole Arab world, a very diverse region with many countries, who do
       not harbour some sort of genetic or ingrained hatred towards Jews. Its sad that
       you feel this way, as it simply fits your simplistic manichean worldview and
       seems to justify your own hatred and disdain toward all Arabs, who you tar with
       the same brush. Isn‘t that what you‘re claiming that they are doing — tarring all
       Jews with the same racist brush?

       Dissidents are esteemed in my books, wherever they are, including Israel. Two
       academics in particular who speak out include Ilan Pappe and Tanya Reinhart,
       who died recently. And who can go without mentioning the whistleblower who
       was hunted down by Mossad and kept as a political prisoner for several long
       years, Mordechai Vanunu?




Page 8 of 22
       You are also mistaken if you think all Arab dissidents (and you cite no examples)
       disdain their countries as ―backward, bigoted and racist‖ people. In fact, they are
       usually quite loyal to their country and are dissidents out of love of their land.

       Another example where you need to read over my response more carefully is
       where you claim that ―you choose to identify with the dysfunctional leaders that
       imprison them.‖ I no more ―identify‖ with them than I do my own government;
       apart from acknowledging it as the democratically elected choice of my country,
       when it imprisons people wrongfully. The US, Canada, Australia and Britain have
       all done this, imprisoning their own citizens without charge and trial. Guantanamo
       Bay, anyone?

       So I am not in fact defending ―beasts‖ which is a highly offensive
       characterization. If that term was attached to Jews you‘d be pointing the racist
       finger but have no compunction in using it yourself. I‘m sorry, these people are
       human beings. No, they can not all be blanketly described as ―oppressors‖. The
       Israeli occupation is what oppressors them, yet I presume you‘d object to the
       Israeli government rightfully being labeled oppressors.

       11. Finally, something on which we can finally agree, at least on this statement.
       You write: ―Peace in the region is not that difficult to achieve‖. Yes, indeed. End
       the occupation. Recognise the Palestinians. End the economic strangulation and
       matrix of control that prevents their development. And I have no problem with
       your other points: ―Cessation of hostilities and terror (same applies to Israel); *
       Secure borders * Diplomatic recognition of Israel.‖

       12. On the last point, EU and US, yes, UN, no, if it is taken to mean the full
       General Assembly and not simply the supremely unrepresentative 5 Permanent
       Member Security Council or the Quartet, who do not the whole world make. And
       while we‘re at it, how about adhering to 70-odd UN resolutions pertaining to
       Israel and the OPT?

       These ―minimum requirements‖ work both ways, and were already in fact met by
       Hamas. It was Israel, who doesn‘t want peace (in the memorable words of Uri
       Avnery, ―Help, Peacemongers!‖) who thwarted this, as it gains more stolen
       territory through illegal settlements and refusing to define borders (how can
       borders be made secure if they are not first defined?)

       Hamas kept a ceasefire for over a year, and has already acknowledged Israel‘s
       existence as clearly a reality. Lest we forget that it is not Israel‘s existence that is
       threatened, it is the Palestinians. This ―recognition‖ precondition is a furphy, not
       demanded of either Jordan or Egypt prior to their peace treaties with Israel,
       designed to prevent meaningful peace talks. Must a Native-American recognize
       the right of the United States of America to exist?

       Let‘s move on.



Page 9 of 22
   9.        SC&A Says:
        June 16th, 2007 at 1:12 pm

        I can understand your wanting to move on.
        I don‘t know where to begin- your perceptions and disengagement from reality
        are are bordering upon the spectacular.
        I shall address the ‗issues‘ you raise randomly.
        The Palestinians are the Israelis are not moral equals and never will be. In the last
        election, there were over 25 candidate that referred to themselves as ‗abu Hitler‘
        or some derivative thereof- and that was perfectly acceptable to the Palestinians.
        If you want to see more- many more- examples of beast like behavior, see
        memri.org and memri TV, each of which allows Arab world rhetoric and ideology
        to stand on its‘ own.
        That there are bigots in Israel and and other free and civilized nation, is of no
        matter- because that bigotry is not institutionalized like it is in the Arab world.
        The hate, racism and bigotry in the Arab world are not a ‗problem‘- they are a
        way of life. For you to deny and then deflect away from that truth says a lot about
        your own racism and bigotry. To say that bigotry in the Arab world in ‗inflated‘ is
        absurd. If anything, the real level of hate and racism are not at yet understood.
        I wrote of a Saudi blogger‘s idea: ―…imagine a school that gave each student a
        glass of alcohol every day. Each day, beginning at tender nursery school age, the
        child was encouraged to drink the beverage that would come to poison his mind.
        Suppose that beverage was from the well aged bottle of anti Semitism.
        Suppose also that once that child downed that alcoholic beverage, the teacher
        refilled that glass with more alcohol. This time, the flavor is religious bigotry
        directed at non Jews.
        Suppose once that glass of alcohol was consumed by young dutiful children, the
        glass was immediately refilled with the beverage from the bottle of anti western
        and anti democratic values.
        After decades, these children, now adults, go home every day, turn on the
        television and read the newspapers- and they are fed more alcohol. They get more
        when their kids come home from school, and share the same familiar poisoned
        ‗fire water.‘ They poison they are fed gets the God‘s seal of approval when fed to
        them from the pulpit- or so they desperately need to believe.
        Of course, to keep a drunk or a junkie hooked, it takes an ever increasing amount
        of poison to induce the same stupor that blinds the drunk or the junkie to his own
        surroundings and dysfunction. The supply of poison never ends.‖
        http://sigmundcarlandalfred.wordpress.com/2007/01/22/another-perfect-storm/
        Before you dictate to the Israelis their own biases, you ought to consider dictating
        to the Palestinians and Arab world.
        In fact, the only thing the Arab world excels at, at a world class level, anti Jewish
        hate and sentiment.
        As for the other drivel about settlements, lets put the record on the table.
        With every peace deal, Israel has evacuated land in exchange for peace. They did
        it with Egypt and they did it with Jordan. The whole world saw what happened
        when Israel left Gaza and the greenhouses. As many predicted, the dysfunctional


Page 10 of 22
       Palestinians (for whom killing Jews is preferable to having a state) destroyed the
       opportunity they had.
       What I also find fascinating is the blatant lie that you feel desperate the need to
       propogate- that Hamas ‗recognizes‘ Israel.
       As has been publicized, that never happened. See the BBC here, for starters.
       http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5122822.stm
       It says in part:
       ―Palestinian minister Abdel Rahman Zeidan told the BBC the Hamas-Fatah
       document did not in any way recognise the state of Israel.
       ―There is no agreement between the Palestinians on specifically this phrase. You
       will not find one word in the document clearly stating the recognition of Israel as
       a state. Nobody has agreed to this. This was not on the table. This was not in the
       dialogue,‖ he said.
       While some have argued that this means Hamas tacitly accepts Israel‘s right to
       exist, it is becoming clear that that is not how Hamas sees it.
       They believe that a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza is a first step -
       not a final step.
       They believe that future generations of Palestinians will reclaim all their historic
       homeland. And that, in the end, there will be no room for what is now the Jewish
       state of Israel, our correspondent says. ‖
       Why the deceit on your part?
       Israel is not obligated to give an inch of land- the standard is a land for peace, not
       land BEFORE peace.
       I ask again, what exactly is so onerous here?
       * Cessation of hostilities and terror
       * Secure borders.
       * Diplomatic recognition of Israel.
       Those are the minimum requirements as noted by Israel, the UN, the US, and the
       EU.
       You can dance all you like bit in the end, who and what the Palestinians and the
       Arab world are, speaks for itself.
       The UN has already recognized Israel- that is not up to debate (except perhaps in
       your world). The ‘supremely unrepresentative‘ UN members also include tens of
       the most repressive and oppressive regimes in the world. Explain to me again how
       these nations, with their record on racism, bigotry and hate are equal to free and
       civilized nations?
       The Palestinians could have had a nation decades ago. By their actions, they have
       proved that killing Jews is their priority- and no amount of dancing and deceit can
       change that reality.
       For every Ilan Pappe and Uri Avnery who offer opinions, there are an equal
       number of Arab dissidents who are imprisoned and persecuted for holding views
       more closely aligned to my own.
       Like I said, your position says more about you than it does about the Palestinians
       or Arabs.
       Sadly, I am in a bit of a rush. I will write a more detailed post on your ideas at a
       later time.



Page 11 of 22
         In the meanwhile, read the links I have marked ‗pages‘ on the sidebar.
         Learn a little.

         In addition, here is a bit of clarity on the subject of the ‗civilized Hamas‘ on
         recognizing Israel.


   10.        rohlingdown Says:
         June 16th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

         wow! you disturbed a hornet‘s nest! Stop and think. This part of the mudball we
         call earth has always been dominated by tribal hatred … if the arabs don‘t have
         the jews to hate they turn on each other. Islam is a great example. Sunni? Shi‘ite?
         Each tries to dominate the other … not a very good example of what a religion is
         supposed to be.

         We human beings claim to be at the top of the evolutionary pyramid … but we
         sure don‘t act like it.

         I am a cradle Catholic … not a jew … but I try to greet people with the beautiful
         word …. Shalom!


   11.        SC&A Says:
         June 16th, 2007 at 5:23 pm

         For what it‘s worth, I‘m a (lapsed)Anglican.


   12.        peoplesgeography Says:
         June 16th, 2007 at 11:00 pm

         Again, I pity you your racist beliefs, evasions and distortions, and note that you
         did not address many of my points.

         The most important thing is that a human being is a human being is a human
         being. If you start from the inherently bigoted assumption that ―The Palestinians
         are [sic-I assume you mean ‘and’] the Israelis are not moral equals and never will
         be‖ that says a lot about your bigotry and subsequent racist-mired beliefs. Your
         whole belief system will be a racist house of cards.

         The links you subsequently furnish will always then only look for evidence that
         apparently confirms it — ‗to the man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole
         world looks like a nail‘. And nails are all you can apply to the diverse Arab world,
         which you clearly do not understand, and to which you apply highly racist and
         inapplicable generalisations.



Page 12 of 22
       You like to harp on about world class institutions. On the contrary, there are many
       instances of world class institutions. The Iraqis had an excellent medical system
       before Invasions I and II, an immoral war at the behest of Israel and the Israel
       Lobby. Of course, Israel is threatened by any success in the Arab world, such as
       Lebanon. And in neighbouring Iran, it can‘t bear the thought of having its
       regional nuclear monopoly challenged, so the Lobby and their Christian Zionist
       lackeys would have the world rushing foolishly head-long into world with Iran, so
       Israel does not feel challenged with its undeclared nuclear weapons. What a joke.

       I‘ve already addressed MEMRI, which most of us in academe don‘t even take
       seriously, and invite you to re-read my point more carefully.

       This is an outright falsehood: ―bigotry is not institutionalized like it is in the Arab
       world.‖ Bigotry most certainly is institutionalised in Israel, evidenced in the
       recent family reunion act that disbars Israeli Arabs from living with their own
       spouses if the are from the OPT. And that‘s leaving aside the Jew only settlements
       and roads. This is not apartheid, this is much worse than apartheid a la South
       Africa. Fortunately, the world is waking up and more people are speaking up
       against the injustices.

       And this just makes me laugh: ―The hate, racism and bigotry in the Arab world
       are not a ‗problem‘- they are a way of life. For you to deny and then deflect away
       from that truth says a lot about your own racism and bigotry. To say that bigotry
       in the Arab world in ‗inflated‘ is absurd. If anything, the real level of hate and
       racism are not at yet understood.‖

       What nonsense. How do you know they are a way of life, have you visited the
       Middle East or are you basing your half-baked opinions on watching the
       discredited MEMRI? I most certainly can deny that patently false statement, and
       I‘ve a more legitimate and stronger foundation on which to do so: I teach the
       Middle East, I speak Arabic, many of my friends and family are from the region,
       as are students. For you to absurdly claim that they are a way of life, I‘d expect
       you to have a reasonable knowledge of the region, to have lived there and/ or
       know the people.

       You need to confront your racism and examine your conscience. I happen to be a
       fellow Christian, though from a different denomination, and you harbour
       extremely un-Christian like thoughts. There are Palestinian Christians too, you
       know. They too are being persecuted and discriminated against in the occupation.

       I‘ve already addressed the ―recognition‖ furphy — designed to thwart meaningful
       peace, and it is you who is desperate to propagate the myth that Israel ended its
       control of Gaza — it did not — and that greenhouses were gutted by Palestinians
       — it is the Israelis who have excelled at demolishing greenhouses and other
       buildings. Last October it destroyed more than 40 greenhouses in that blockade
       alone.



Page 13 of 22
         Israel‘s existence is clearly a reality. The ―recognition‖ is a side-stepping issue,
         not a serious precondition. Why is it so onerous for the Israelis to end the longest
         running military occupation in modern history and recognise what they‘ve done to
         the Palestinians, ethnically cleansing the villages, and refusing to recognise them?

         Another straw man wherein you address things I clearly do not say:

                 The UN has already recognized Israel- that is not up to debate (except
                 perhaps in your world). The ‟supremely unrepresentative‟ UN members
                 also include tens of the most repressive and oppressive regimes in the
                 world. Explain to me again how these nations, with their record on
                 racism, bigotry and hate are equal to free and civilized nations?

         I did not say the UN did not recognise Israel. Read more carefully. Nor did I
         attach the descriptor ―supremely unrepresentative‖ to the General Assembly, only
         to the 5 permanent member Security Council. If you obviously keep mis-
         representing my points, that undermines your credibility generally. ―Free and
         civilised‖ is also a subjective measure — my American friends would question
         whether their country is at all the beacon for freedom and civilisation at the
         moment.

         I end with one of my favourite quotes from Hannah Arendt, the great Jewish
         thinker. I may put it up in my own sidebar next to the Palestinian scholar Edward
         Said‘s sublime quote, to serve as a reminder to people like you. You exhort me to
         learn, though it was intended derisively and not good-naturedly. I most certainly
         will, SC&A. We are all learning. A scholar never stops. You need to be prepared
         to read material that is not in lock-step with your pre-determined prejudices, that
         really questions your underlying assumptions that appear still stubbornly rooted.
         In that endeavour, despite our differences, I wish you well.

         “And though tyranny, because it needs no consent, may successfully rule
         over foreign peoples, it can stay in power only if it destroys first of all the
         national institutions of its own people.”
         – Hannah Arendt, The Origins Of Totalitarianism


   13.        peoplesgeography Says:
         June 16th, 2007 at 11:19 pm

         As for your Abu-Hitler brouhaha, I performed a search, curious to read more. The
         reference in your blog links only to another blog, and the link in any case has
         lapsed or is faulty. I expected this flippant moniker to yield substantial outrage,
         reflected in many results and that the Arab-baiting mass media to pick it up.
         Instead, I found less than two pages, all right-wing blogs. Again, you are clasping
         at straws to find anything and everything to demonise Arabs. Arabs, who are
         moral human beings, equal to any other.



Page 14 of 22
   14.        peoplesgeography Says:
         June 17th, 2007 at 4:09 am

         The head of the Anglican Church, Dr Rowan Williams, has wisely said of Israel‘s
         apartheid wall that it is ―a sign of all that is wrong in the human heart‖, when
         visiting Bethlehem seven months ago. He has also wisely spoken up against the
         invasion and occupation of Iraq. Do a search on him or I‘d be happy to provide
         references.

         I have read your pages, SC&A. Your analysis, whilst containing glimmers of
         promise, is entirely misguided and wrong in its application. You exemplify the
         adage that ―a little knowledge is a dangerous thing‖.

         Just for starters, did you not know that the modern phenomenon of terrorism and
         suicide bombings in the Middle East originated with the Jewish Haganah, Irgun
         and Stern Gang who bombed hotels and installations and killed scores of
         civilians?

         The then-governing British rightly regarded these Jewish groups terrorists. Many
         of these terrorists later became Israeli leaders— Moshe Dayan, Yitzhak Rabin,
         Menachem
         Begin, Ariel Sharon. So the phenomenon of suicide bombing started with Jewish
         terrorists. Today, it is mostly Hindu suicide bombers that numerically dominate
         all terrorist incidences, not Palestinians — see Robert Pape‘s work.

         Let‘s take your ‗Birth of a Nation‘ page. ―Every Muslim could abuse any non
         Muslim as he saw fit,‖ you write, ―and for the most part escaped serious
         consequence. ‖ The evidence for this? I wonder how many Muslims you
         personally know.

         If we are looking at incriminating passages out of Holy Books taken out of
         context (they all have them), do you not know that the Talmud sanctions the ill-
         treatment of non-Jews, calling us Goyim (cattle?) Your fawning hagiography of
         Israel is profoundly misguided and simply wrong.

         You write: ―In their world, heroes kill. In ours, heroes save lives.‖ Actually, no
         they celebrate heroes who stand for self-determination and stand up to the
         interference of the US and UK who have coveted their natural resources, such as
         Nasser. What are Bush and Cheney if not mass-murderers, responsible for several
         impeachable crimes yet who have the loyalty and obeisance still of a substantial
         (yet diminishing) proportion of Americans, and responsible for so much death and
         destruction?

         Quite apparent in your pseudo-psychoanalysis (‖All these behaviors are first and
         foremost the manifestation of the denial personal temptations‖) is your own
         projection. Your continued vilification of Muslims and Arabs is appalling.


Page 15 of 22
       You might find American Chris Hedges, who has spent time in the ME,
       instructive here:

       I think the things we say about Muslims in this country could not be said about
       any other ethnic group. I think the racism is raw, the ignorance is appalling. The
       way we denigrate their culture, their religion, talk about how they only understand
       violence, or that they want their children all to be suicide bombers, it‘s just a huge
       advertisement to our incredible lack of understanding and appalling ignorance.
       And for somebody who‘s spent so much time in the Middle East, it‘s almost
       impossible to counter. The notions that all Muslims—who are one-fifth of the
       world‘s population, most of whom are not Arab—[the notion that they] all think
       the same way, or that there isn‘t a moderate center, or that Algerians are the same
       as Iraqis—you don‘t even know where to begin. It‘s so vast, and it‘s pervaded the
       mainstream to such an extent that I think you raise a good point. We‘ve turned 1
       billion people into a caricature or stereotype—and not a very pleasant one.

       ―What kind of future could a society have if violence is a legitimate form of
       expression and exchange?‖ Indeed, and the militarist Israeli state should ask itself
       this pertinent question, as people are doing. Jewish children too re raised with
       abusive cult-programming and irrational hatred of Arabs. I strongly recommend
       Education or mind infection? by Nurit Peled-Elhanan, a Jewish and Israeli writer.

       You claim that there is a Palestinian ―addiction to violence‖, a very good example
       of blaming the victim. Steal their land, treat them like cattle in open-air prisons,
       cut off contact with the outside world, curtail movement, bomb electricity
       stations, prevent economic development, and then wonder why they resist?!

       Palestinian violence and resistance is episodic and in reaction to the Israeli
       attempt to exterminate them, it is not a pre-existing predilection in their DNA. It
       is the Israeli state which is addicted to violence. Last time I checked, Palestine
       hadn‘t invaded a country. Nor had Lebanon. Israel has.

       Lest we forget too that violence and militarism is endemic to most societies, most
       of all in the ones that attach to themselves grandiose labels such as ―civilised and
       free‖. Gandhi was once asked what he thought of western civilisation. He cleverly
       replied that he thought it would be a good idea.

       Take a more right of centre writer, Thomas Friedman. Even he acknowledges that

                ―The hidden hand of the market will never work without a hidden fist.
                McDonald‘s cannot flourish without McDonnell Douglas… And the
                hidden fist that keeps the world safe for Silicon Valley‘s technologies to
                flourish is called the U.S. Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps.‖
                – Thomas Friedman, The Lexus and the Olive Tree

       and another, Samuel P. Huntington:



Page 16 of 22
                ―The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or
                religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence.
                Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.‖

                ―Hypocrisy, double standards, and ‗but nots‘ are the price of universalist
                pretensions. Democracy is promoted but not if it brings Islamic
                fundamentalists to power; nonproliferation is preached for Iran and Iraq
                but not for Israel; free trade is the elixir of economic growth but not for
                agriculture; human rights are an issue for China but not with Saudi Arabia;
                aggression against oil-owning Kuwaitis is massively repulsed but not
                against non-oil-owning Bosnians. Double standards in practice are the
                unavoidable price of universal standards of principle. ‖ (The Clash of
                Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order, p. 184)

       The other difference in most ―civilised‖ states is that while yes, most states born
       in conflict, in Israel‘s case, it was not just born in conflict (and ethnic cleansing),
       the state terrorism continues unabated to this day.

       BBC ARTICLE

       There are contradictory views in the BBC article you cite, right after that
       inflammatory quote you selectively fish out we also have the disqualifier:
       ―However, a Hamas member who helped negotiate the agreement, Ziyad Dayeh,
       said Hamas support for a two-state solution was nothing new for Hamas.‖

       So yes, there is rhetoric by some Palestinians who chest-beat they want all of
       Palestine — a sheer fairy tale and they know it. Why do you seize upon this as
       somehow representative? Are you not aware of far more influential Greater Israel
       devotees who want to take over all of Palestine?. The difference is that one is
       rhetoric by a marginalised few (Palestinians), the other (Israel) is slowly in danger
       of becoming reality. Moreover, the BBC reporter cites a ―negotiator‖, unnamed,
       who said this. What authority does he have? I cite a recognised and named Hamas
       leader, not an unnamed negotiator.

       Chris Hedges and others are right. We see the barbarity against the Arab world
       exposed in the genocidal sanctions against Iraq over more than decade between
       invasions that saw more than a million children die. We see it in the appalling
       looting of priceless treasures of humanity stolen by American foreigners upon
       invasion from Iraqi museums, despoiled and lost, a most shameful and despicable
       episode. And there were no suicide bombers in Iraq before 2003 either. War is
       the biggest terrorism, and what this criminal neocon junta have done, invading
       and destroying countries, seems to escape your notice.

       You might care to examine history and contemporary events in more depth, and
       eschew selective episodes of Arab resentment for a deeper and more nuanced
       appreciation of the diverse Arab world. And remember:



Page 17 of 22
         ―To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where
         they make a wilderness, they call it peace‖ — Tacitus

         ―Those who enjoy power always arrange matters so as to give their tyranny an
         appearance of justice‖ — La Fontaine 1668

   15. Islam skeptic Says:
         June 17th, 2007 at 5:02 am

         The most important thing is that a human being is a human being is a human
         being.

         The point being?

         If you start from the inherently bigoted assumption that “The Palestinians are
         [sic-I assume you mean „and‟] the Israelis are not moral equals and never will
         be” that says a lot about your bigotry and subsequent racist-mired beliefs. Your
         whole belief system will be a racist house of cards.

         This was obviously not directed at me, but still, the fact that the Palestinians and
         the Israelis are not moral equals stems from the fact that the Palestinians are
         mostly Muslims, and the Israelis are not. Since peoplesgeography claims to teach
         the Middle East and speak Arabic, it is only reasonable to expect him to be very
         well aware of the evil inherent in the religion of Islam and its incompatibility with
         Western values and societies (which also includes Israel, despite its geographical
         location).

         Unless peoplesgeography is one of those people who do not have a problem with
         evil ideologies, or he doesn‘t know as much about the subject he is teaching as he
         should and is actually ignorant about the basic nature of Islam, I don‘t see how he
         can object to a statement that the Palestinians and the Israelis are not moral equals
         and never will be, unless he for example imagines that the Palestinians will one
         day cease to be Muslims or alternatively that the Israelis one day will be Muslims
         as well.


   16.        peoplesgeography Says:
         June 17th, 2007 at 5:27 am

         Thanks for the great laugh, Islam Skeptic. I mean that sincerely, you got my
         gender wrong. Its a she you are talking to.

         Well, I‘ve already sent another lengthy (post-length) response but its pending in
         the moderation queue because of the number of links I embedded exceeds 2. That
         is why I have tried to be judicious picking links.




Page 18 of 22
         You are mistaken if I see evil inherent in Islam. There is evil-doing in every great
         religion, it is not ―inherent‖ to any of them.

         Our ―skeptical‖ friend is also apparently unaware that Palestinians are not just
         Muslims, but Christians and Jews as well. I know a number of mixed Muslim-
         Christian Palestinian couples, in fact. No evil ideology or repressed subjection
         happening there. The three Abrahamic religions have co-existed quite peacefully
         in the Holy Land before Israel imposed itself on and terrorised the native
         Palestinians (both Christian and Muslim). I suggest you do more research and
         learn more about Islam. Are you suggesting that being Muslim makes you less of
         a human being than being a Jew? Your Islamophobia against a fifth of the world‘s
         population is astounding.


   17.        SC&A Says:
         June 17th, 2007 at 8:34 am

         Look for a post later today, PG.

         I decided to bring this exchange to the fore.

   18. Islam skeptic Says:
         June 17th, 2007 at 11:30 am

         You are mistaken if I see evil inherent in Islam. There is evil-doing in every great
         religion, it is not “inherent” to any of them.

         peoplesgeography confirms my suspicion that she is unaware of the evil inherent
         in Islam, a subject she should have known more about if she teaches the Middle-
         East.

         She should also remember (or learn, if she doesn‘t already know) the very
         important distinction between what is done in the name of a religion and what a
         religion commands its followers to do. It is the latter part that is problematic with
         Islam, and it is this that makes Islam in particular inherently evil, whereas in most
         other religions the ―evil-doing‖ done in their name is unrelated to or even
         contradicts the religious teachings.

         Our “skeptical” friend is also apparently unaware that Palestinians are not just
         Muslims, but Christians and Jews as well.

         I did write ―mostly Muslims‖ above, apparently peoplesgeography missed this.

         I know a number of mixed Muslim-Christian Palestinian couples, in fact. No evil
         ideology or repressed subjection happening there.

         Anecdotal.


Page 19 of 22
         I suggest you do more research and learn more about Islam.

         peoplesgeography should follow her own advice.

         Are you suggesting that being Muslim makes you less of a human being than
         being a Jew?

         Adhering to the will of Allah, which is what being a Muslim is all about, makes a
         person a worse person than if that same person did not adhere to the will of Allah.
         peoplesgeography might want to consult the Medinan suras of the Quran to see
         why this is so.

         Of course there are persons who are only nominally Muslim, and these may be
         very good persons, precisely because their lack of adherence to Islam makes it
         possible. However, these people cannot take a principled stand against the evil
         inherent in their religion without exposing themselves as apostates.

         Your Islamophobia against a fifth of the world‟s population is astounding.

         It would be interesting to get an explanation from peoplesgeography on what it is
         she sees in my previous post that suggests I suffer from the psychiatric disorder
         known as Islamophobia. My guess is that she either cannot give an adequate
         explanation, or else she‘ll identify something that cannot correctly be classified as
         a phobia. She is likely to be just one more of many people who abuse the term.


   19.        peoplesgeography Says:
         June 17th, 2007 at 3:50 pm

         Islam Skeptic, thank you for your rejoinder. Granted, you did say ―mostly
         Muslim‖. I should think I do follow my suggestion to you; as previously
         mentioned, I reiterate, there are incriminating passages to be found in the holy
         books of all five of the major religions. If you wish to take a literalist
         interpretation, that‘s your decision. Your selectivity would however distort your
         view. The use of the word Allah, though not inaccurate, is also superfluous, it is
         simply the translation of God. So substitute God in your statement and a lot of
         Christians would claim that they too follow the will of God, or try to. Faux
         Christians such as GWB claim to listen to Him too, most notably …

         A flippant user of a term does not necessarily constitute abuse — you are
         suggesting that a devout Muslim who prays regularly and doesn‘t practise usury
         etc makes a worse person, many people would call that a distortion and a
         misrepresentation suggestive of a phobia against the religion. Note that this is not
         at all a clinical term, but one used in popular culture. I hope its use has clarified
         things for you. So, no, you are not being accused of a a psychiatric disorder per
         se.



Page 20 of 22
       Anecdotal examples are not inherently disqualified either — experiential
       knowledges are often the most important.

   20. Islam skeptic Says:
       June 18th, 2007 at 12:08 am

       If you wish to take a literalist interpretation, that‟s your decision.

       Like the typical Islam apologist, peoplesgeography brings up the subject of
       interpretation, conveniently ignoring the fact that given the status of the Quran as
       the perfect literal word of Allah, it actually should be read literally. Interpretation
       is irrelevant when it comes to Islam, as it is not allowed.

       The use of the word Allah, though not inaccurate, is also superfluous, it is simply
       the translation of God.

       I am aware of that, though I consider it an insult to Christianity to imply that the
       god of Islam can in any way be the same god as that of Christianity, therefore I
       make the distinction between God and Allah.

       a lot of Christians would claim that they too follow the will of God, or try to.

       As I pointed out in my previous post, there is a difference between what adherents
       of a religion (claim to) do and what their religion actually commands them to do.

       Faux Christians such as GWB claim to listen to Him too, most notably …

       peoplesgeography claims that GWB is a faux Christian. This suggests that she
       should recognize the fact that there are people who claim to be adherents of a
       religion, but whose religious practice indicates that they are not actually true
       adherents of the religion. That is a tacit admission that a religion is not simply
       whatever its supposed adherents claim it is, because if that were the case, she
       wouldn‘t be able to classify GWB as a faux Christian.

       you are suggesting that a devout Muslim who prays regularly and doesn‟t
       practise usury etc makes a worse person

       peoplesgeography conveniently leaves out other important aspects of Islamic
       practice, such as jihad.

       many people would call that a distortion and a misrepresentation suggestive of a
       phobia against the religion.

       It doesn‘t matter if ―many people‖ do this, it still does not constitute a phobia,
       which makes it wrong to classify it as such.




Page 21 of 22
Last comment on Islam and the Qur‘an responded to at Peoples Geography here:

http://peoplesgeography.com/2007/06/19/conversations-with-bigotry-on-israel-islam-
and-ideologues/




Page 22 of 22

				
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