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					                            REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON INFRASTRUCTURE

                                               APRIL 13, 2005

A meeting of the Committee on Infrastructure was held Wednesday, April 13, 2005, at 8:35 p.m. in the
Aldermanic Chamber.

Chair Robert A. Dion presided.

Members of the Committee present: Alderman Marc W. Plamondon, Vice Chair
                                  Alderman-at-Large Paula I. Johnson
                                  Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane
                                  Alderman David D. Lozeau

Members not in Attendance:

Also in Attendance:                    Alderman-at-Large-James R. Tollner
                                       Alderman Robert Shaw
                                       Alderman Kathryn D. Vitale
                                       Wayne Husband, Traffic
                                       Susan Klasen, Traffic
                                       Deputy Chief Morrissey
                                       Consultants


DISCUSSION

Chairman Dion

Director Lemieux, you were the first on the agenda for City owned land and buildings. Is there
anything you would like to say? I know this has been a long evening for you. I’m sure you have a
short business page.

Alderman Deane

Oh I have a number of questions, Mr. Chairman.

Maureen Lemieux

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Actually my presentation has become shorter and shorter as the night
has gone on. What I would like to do this evening is I’ve actually brought the 3 books that we have
compiled with me this evening. I would like to put these in the Legislative Office for you. We have
finally finished going through all of the City owned land and cataloging as best we could. What I have
also done, but I don’t have them to hand out tonight I’m going to put them in your packets for Friday,
it was actually taking me longer to make copies earlier this evening than I expected.

On the front of each we have listed out all of the different properties that is in each one of the books.
What I am going to do is in your Friday packets have a copy of all of this for you. Almost our table of
contents, if you will, of what is in each book. We have them by category of land. We have the
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                             Page 2

account number, what the zoning is, the location of it, and a description of it. These are all by
categories. For instance all of the property that we own because of the Broad Street Parkway we
have cataloged together here. Whether they are schools, whether it’s vacant land, whether it’s
ponds and sanctuaries, whether it’s wetlands, whether it is detention ponds we have them all
categorized for you. My hope is that by giving you all of this information you will each be able to take
a look at what we have for land, then you could either access the books that we will leave in the
Legislative Office for you, or certainly they are all by account number. You can go on-line and
access the GIS. If anyone is interested in doing anything with any of the parcels, we will be more
than happy to work with you.

Chairman Dion

Do you have a question Alderman Plamondon?

Alderman Plamondon

Yes. A point of clarification. Lands that we got in the Broad Street Parkway, they are still owned by
the State and have – there’s no land that I’m aware of that has been turned over to the City at all. We
wouldn’t have jurisdiction to sell, or lease, or anything. There is a long process that we could do it.
However, any revenues would go to the State not to the City.

Chairman Dion

Director Lemieux, would you like to respond?

Maureen Lemieux

Yes. Actually that is true, but they are listed in our name. In fact, I’m not sure they may even be now
the parcels that we are purchasing may even be in Director Hersh’s name. Over time they’ve been
listed either under Roger Hawk, who was of course the Community Development Director before.
Some of have been listed under George Crombie’s name. I’m not quite sure whose name they are
being listed under at this point. You are correct. If anything were to happen with these properties
either if we were to lease them out or if we had determined that we no longer needed a specific one
for the newly redesigned parkway, the State would be the one who would get the revenue.

Alderman Plamondon

Just a follow-up if I might?

Chairman Dion

One more question Alderman?

Alderman Plamondon

Yes. Just a follow up. I’m not saying that it is impossible, but the process – again, I want to
emphasize this is very lengthy and time consuming, which would be an incurred expense on the City
and that the revenue, again, would go to the State at this time. The City would not gain any revenue
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                                Page 3

from leasing or going through the process of selling those lots. I think that it is a very important point
to make especially in light of – I have been approached by individuals who want to lease or buy
certain lots. The other thing that needs to be said is the State is still going forward. The State is still
going forward with the original plan of the Broad Street Parkway. There is an advisory committee,
yes which I chair, however, there is nothing officially that has been transpired to date that officially
changes it from a 4 lane to a 2 lane. That is our plan and our goal. It is something that we would
work with the State with, and we are working with. Just to bring that board to date, they are still
working on that plan. They can do so because even the modified plan that we’re looking to do follows
the same course as the original plan. So hopefully that helped with further discussions when those
properties come up.

Alderman Deane

Thank you. Maureen, Lot No. 110-37. Remember that one?

Maureen Lemieux

No.

Alderman Deane

Come on. The pie-shaped piece of property – Rivier.

Maureen Lemieux

Yes.

Alderman Deane

We wanted to – these are the contacts I thought we went over a while ago. This other piece of
property Alderman Lozeau the 12 acres that he had asked to put some legislation in, that’s been
done. We have this other parcel Lot B-3116. that’s that piece of property that abuts Shady Lane,
and I see possibly 3 building lots – B-3116…

Maureen Lemieux

Excuse me, is that Taschereau?

Alderman Deane

No. It says Shady Lane. L Shady Lane – vacant land. It has no style.

Maureen Lemieux

I’m pretty certain I know which one you mean.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                                Page 4

Alderman Deane

I can give you the exact order. The other one is the people who live up on Coburn Avenue. We have
a piece of property that abuts the entire length of Coburn Avenue. I don’t know how these people got
a building permit. We should probably be giving them a call and saying since your driveway is
running through the middle of our property, is there a chance we can (inaudible).

Lot No. B-1959. This was that other huge parcel on Shady Lane. We should look into. That large
parcel on Intervale that abuts the river, Lot No. 70-12. Lot 4175, that little sliver that according to this
picture nobody parks there, but is right in the middle of the BAE parking lot. We should just call them
up before they send us a bill for paving it. Then the Mansville property. We didn’t really want to do
anything with it was that one big piece. Then there was the other one in Ward 3.

Maureen Lemieux

Oh yes. Was that Cabot?

Alderman Deane

Remember that one. The one that the people wanted a piece of property and we own that chunk.
That’s that piece of property. I can give you these to make life a lot easier.

Maureen Lemieux

Thank you. If I may, Mr. Chairman, what we’ve done since the last time I was here was really
concentrate on making sure that we got everything cataloged for you and got the books put together.
I believe when you take a look at these many of you will have other properties that you will want us to
take a look at. Now it can really begin to utilize this information for the purpose that we really
compiled it to begin with. That will be to look at all of these things and see if there are pieces that we
want to do something with. I certainly hope that people will look at the books and look at the
information that you’ll have in your packets on Friday.

Chairman Dion

Thank you for those comments.

Alderman Deane

I just wanted to – I plan on drilling into those books. I believe Alderman Lozeau does too. What I
would like to do somehow is have this committee set up a way to communicate to the public or
whomever whether we place the street and lot numbers, or whatever where the property is located
on the City’s website and allow anyone who has an interest in any of these properties that we have to
somehow set a contact up, Maureen, and do something. I think we’re going to end up – I don’t want
to – in some instances some of the property is either landlocked or whatever. There’s issues with
people – if it is sitting there and it is landlocked, who would buy it because nobody can use it. So
whether there be some sort of transfer of ownership somehow where you really couldn’t sell it
because for reasons that we all understand. The other pieces of property whether we would have to
somehow get appraisals done other than what the current assessed value is, we could look at those
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                               Page 5

numbers. We’d have to sort of formulate some plan to put some plan in place or something to start
to deal with unloading some of this and putting it back on the tax rolls. Just in those 8 or 9 pieces
there, there’s probably 5, 6, or 7 building lots there. I think we should take advantage of it and get rid
of the property. It is kind of foolish to even consider even owning it. Thank for putting the books
together, and I look forward to going through them.

Alderman Plamondon

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to issue a caution regarding the Intervale property. At this point in
time I wouldn’t, myself, entertain supporting movement of that property. That is significant in its
placement. It could be used as a land swap deal with potential developers we’re working with for
cleaning up the Mohawk Tannery and assisting with the City match and the Broad Street Parkway. If
I remember right, the bulk of that is also in the 100 year plan. A lot of good ideas and I support them,
it’s just I want to issue a caution on the Intervale property. When the Mohawk Tannery will be
cleaned and the parkway put it, if the City still retains ownership of the Intervale property, that value
will go up. Right now potentially it could be used as a land swap. I just wanted to bring that forward
as part of the discussions. It may well be valuable with our retained ownership in the next 6 months,
maybe even as soon as 3 months. Hopefully we will know something.

Alderman Deane

This is for you Mr. Chairman. Alderman Plamondon, if you plan on negotiating a land swap, that this
committee be comprised of whoever’s doing the negotiating pertaining to that piece of property
because it falls under the jurisdiction of this committee.

Alderman Plamondon

I am fully aware of this committee being responsible for that. I’m just saying that I’m bringing that
forward because we are trying to come up with a solution to two large problems involving a lot of
money in cleaning up the Mohawk Tannery and the Broad Street Parkway. This is just a card that we
can plan through this committee because it’s obvious it is City owned land. Nothing could be done
without this committee. That’s the law. I’m fully aware of that.

Chairman Dion

Maureen, do you have anything else you’d like to…

Maureen Lemieux

The only thing I would like to do is publicly thank Diane Sweeny, who is the one who’s really done all
of the work on this project and has put this together. Not only will we have the 3 books here, we’ll
have the 3 books down in my office also. Again, if any of you have any questions or want further
information on anything, Diane would be happy to assist any of you.

Chairman Dion

Thank you. Is there any other questions from the committee to Maureen? If not, Maureen it’s been
a long day for you. Thank you.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                             Page 6


Maureen Lemieux

Good evening. Thank you.

Chairman Dion

I received a phone call from Chief Hatfield, Fire Rescue, pertaining to having some of his people here
this evening to give us a short discussion. Chief Morrissey, would you join us please and whoever
you have with you please join us in one of these chairs – microphones.

Assistant Chief Morrissey

Thank you Chairman Dion and the committee members for allowing us to speak to you tonight. The
matter that I bring forward you is another step in the process of constructing the proposed fire station
on East Hollis Street. As you are all aware, there have been several steps already taken to get this
project off the ground, and they included the site selection, the property purchased, preliminary
design, consulting with City departments, and finally the bond approval by the Board of Alderman for
this project. Recently, two contracts were recommended by the Fire Commission and approved by
the Finance Committee relating to this project. The Purchasing Department, Risk Management,
Corporation Counsel have reviewed the contract and I would ask that this committee also support
these contracts in an effort to move forward with the proposed project.

I have brought with me this evening Kelly Davis from Sumner, Davis Architects of Portsmouth, New
Hampshire. They have been on board with us since May of 2003. After a final round of interviews a
little over six weeks ago, the Board of Fire Commissioners asked that the committee support for the
projects construction manager, Harvey Construction Corporation of Bedford, New Hampshire. I
brought Rob Prunier from Harvey Construction here with me this evening also. Also another group
that has been on board with the project going back to the 2003/2004 time frame has been Hayner
Swanson, the civil engineers that have worked on developing the site plan. I brought with me tonight
Paul Hayner. All of these gentlemen can speak to the project as it stands at this point in time if
anybody has any questions they’d like to bring in reference to it.

Alderman Deane

Thank you. I had requested an opinion from Corporation Counsel about control of City lands and
buildings. I don’t know if the Fire Chief got a copy of this. It states that the Charter language
addresses construction of new fire stations under Charter A-593 states “the board of fire
commissioners shall have the sole power to select and purchase land for the building of the fire
department; and when said board has secured by vote by the board of aldermen, adequate
appropriations for the purchase of a specified lot at a specified price, then said board may purchase
the same. The same and the land and buildings committee and the board of aldermen now the
infrastructure committee jointly shall direct the construction of all buildings erected, altered,
remodeled, or changed for the use of the fire department and no building shall be altered,
remodeled, or changed unless the plans thereof had been previously submitted for the board of fire
commissioners and approved by it. Upon the completion of any such building or after the selection of
purchase of land, the board of fire commissioners shall have full and complete care and control of
the same and whenever such land or building shall no longer be used for purpose of the department,
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                              Page 7

the care and control thereof shall be reverted to the City. Thus the construction of a new fire station
on East Hollis Street shall be directly jointly by the board of fire commissioners and the infrastructure
committee acting together.” I had asked that Dory – an opinion on that because there was some
confusion. A couple of meetings ago I asked Alderman Rootovich and he had explained to me that
it went something like what joint special had done with the high schools and I believe when they built
the Lake Street station as well.

I just wanted to ask the Chairman what his feelings were on putting together either representatives
from this committee and having the approvals brought back to go through the design once these
contracts are approved, or whether we are going to have the entire committee involved with the
process, or select a couple of members. I didn’t know how you wanted to approach this or if you had
spoken with the Chief about a couple of fire commissioners and a couple of infrastructure committee
members, or what your thoughts were on it.

Chairman Dion

I spoke with Chief Hatfield briefly about the situation. Your name was mention as the liaison and I
didn’t hear any other names mentioned. I don’t know what the proper procedure here – would it be
the procedure for this committee to appoint one or two members of this committee? Does it have to
be ratified by the Board of Aldermen? That is the question in my mind.

Alderman Tollner

If I could. I think it is up to the decision of this committee to just recognize or make a
recommendation for this working group. It is up to this committee to decide – infrastructure decide
whether it s one or two as liaison to the Board of Fire Commissioners. I think the Chief has spoken
with the Fire Commissioners. I think they are in agreement. If there was a representative on this
working group from the Infrastructure Committee and the Chairman and the Committee were
comfortable with that, they would choose a fire commissioner to participate on that and work with the
engineers, the construction manager, and the fire chief. That was my understanding.

Chairman Dion

No need to have ratification by the Board of Aldermen for the selection?

Alderman Tollner

No Sir.

Alderman Deane

Having said that Alderman Tollner, the one thing that I really wanted to point out is that any change
orders, or payments, or things of that nature TCAs all have to come back to this committee for
approval.

Chairman Dion

That is the way is has always been.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                           Page 8

Alderman Deane

I just wanted to make sure. If you appoint a couple of people to serve on a working committee as part
of the project, they’re liaisons back to this committee for discussion.

Chairman Dion

Right. I think that would work out fine.

Alderman Tollner

Alderman Deane is exactly correct. So the change orders or anything like that would come back to
this committee. They would serve in a similar fashion as does Joint Special School on a school
project. He thought this would be more expeditious if there was a representative on the working
group from Infrastructure as well as the Fire Commissioners to do the day to day. When you have
your regular meetings, I think the construction manager, the fire department, the architects would
come in. The same way they have done with the other school projects that we have in the City.

Chairman Dion

Well why don’t we do that right now. Who on the committee would like to volunteer to be liaison on
this special committee? Questions?

Alderman Plamondon

Does anyone know when this subcommittee would be meeting? Day? Time? Any idea? If I might
through you Mr. Chair to Chief Morrissey?

Assistant Chief Morrissey

We haven’t developed a schedule for the committee to meet. I think we should try to come to some
reasonable terms.

Alderman Lozeau

I at this time would nominate Alderman Deane to take a position as the liaison if you would accept
that.

Chairman Dion

Would you accept that Alderman Deane?

Alderman Deane

Yes.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                            Page 9

Chairman Dion

Is there anyone else on the committee that would like to serve on this special committee?

Alderman Plamondon

If I could make it. I would also mention that any member of this committee would be welcome to join
as well. We all have an equal vote and so on. I think anyone else could join in. This is going to be
what the Board of Fire Commissioners so anyone of use had time to go or whatever I would
recommend that that happen as well.

Chairman Dion

All right. It is understood that Alderman Deane, Alderman Plamondon if it is okay with the committee
will be our two liaison members of this committee to serve with the Fire Commission, the architects,
and the building manager. Any questions?

MOTION BY ALDERMAN DION TO NOMINATE ALDERMAN DAVID DEANE AND ALDERMAN
MARC PLAMONDON AS THE TWO LIAISON MEMBERS

ON THE QUESTION

Alderman Deane

The question I have is – I’m trying to understand this now – it says “thus the construction of a new
station on East Hollis Street shall be directed jointly by the board of fire commissioners and
infrastructure committee acting together.” So that’s both that board and this committee as a group.
This is what the – not the language of the Charter, but it is the opinion. I’m wondering if we can take
just a percentage of memberships of the commission and the Infrastructure Committee itself? I
wonder if that is allowable?

Alderman Lozeau

May I suggest that maybe we just invite the Board of Fire Commissioners to join us at our
Infrastructure meetings when there is anything pertinent to be discussed. That way we form our own
joint special. As long as we have a quorum of both boards – I don’t know if you even need a quorum
of both boards to conduct a meeting. Instead of depending on a liaison, maybe that is the way to go.
We do have meetings on a pretty regular basis. They are well planned. Maybe we just could
coordinate those meetings with the meetings of the Fire Commission.

Chairman Dion

Well we usually have our meetings the second Wednesday and the fourth Wednesday of the month.
As you know in the months of July and August, we normally have one meeting during those two
months because of the summer season. I just wanted you to be aware of that. Okay. If the
meetings want to be held other than the nights that the Infrastructure Committee does meet, than
that would work.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                          Page 10

Alderman Deane

I guess the more I look at this the more it doesn’t – the only issue I could see coming out of it –
decisions aren’t going to be made by – contractual decisions will not be acted upon by liaisons to
work with the Fire Commissioners…

Chairman Dion

That is true.

Alderman Deane

So decisions pertaining to contracts…

Chairman Dion

…will be made at Infrastructure meetings. Correct.

Alderman Deane

The other question I had is bringing these folks back down here. What is the cost? If you’ve go to
come from your office once a month to a meeting, what are you charging us for doing that or is that
already built in?

Unidentified Male Speaker

That is already built into the contract.

Alderman Deane

So if we didn’t need you we could get a reduction in the contract? Is that what we are hearing?

Unidentified Male Speaker

I think we are going to be down here more than once a month. To start we’ll be down here every
week.

Alderman Deane

I just wanted to make sure when things are settled on, and the design is done, and the exterior
components are done, when we bring all that stuff back and the bids start coming in, have to be
awarded, then that’s all the awards through the contracts are going to be brought here and Finance
as well.

Chairman Dion

Okay. Let’s settle it this way here. The Chairs rule that Alderman Deane and Alderman Plamondon
will be our two liaison people to attend these meetings. That’s the way it is ruled.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                           Page 11


Alderman Tollner

I’m trying to provide some clarity. This working group, I’ll call it, may meet one week two or three
times. I think the reason why we thought this would be a good idea is to expedite the process and not
hold anything back. Alderman Deane is correct that any purchase items, purchase order contracts,
and things like that will come to the Committee of Infrastructure – the whole Committee of
Infrastructure. I think what it says…

Chairman Dion

Change orders.

Alderman Tollner

Change orders, right, that Alderman Deane was talking about is given the fact that this is a fire
department project, the commissioners will have that opportunity to attend those infrastructure
meetings as well. So that day to day work will be ongoing with this working group, and again,
purchase orders, change orders, anything like that will come to this committee just like they do joint
special and the committee will be able to vote on it.

Chairman Dion

Let me ask you this Chief Morrissey. We haven’t had any problems in the past with the way we’ve
worked this out for other projects?

Assistant Chief Morrissey

The four years that I’ve been in this position I’ve come here any number of times for a number of
projects, and we’ve worked very well together. I would hope we’d be able to continue in the same
manner.

Chairman Dion

I participated in a lot of these meetings. In fact, the new communication station on Lake, the old fire
station, you were involved in that one weren’t you?

Assistant Chief Morrissey

Yes.

Chairman Dion

What else do we have from the Fire Department?
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                          Page 12

Alderman Tollner

I think, Mr. Chairman, we need to vote on that motion. I think it is probably appropriate that someone
from the committee introduce the communications from Janice Tremblay.

Chairman Dion

Yes, we’ll do that afterwards.

MOTION TO ELECT ALDERMAN DEANE AND ALDERMAN PLAMONDON TO ACT AS THE
TWO LIAISON MEMBERS WITH THE FIRE COMMISSIONERS ON EAST HOLLIS STREET FIRE
STATION
MOTION CARRIED

Chairman Dion

Chief, do you have anything else you want to add before we get going on these two
communications?

Assistant Chief Morrissey

No. The Fire Commission had asked me to make sure that the Chairman worked with the committee
to appoint some members to work together with the fire department.

Chairman Dion

We’ve done that.

Assistant Chief Morrissey

...and the project professionals to assist us in building that building.

Chairman Dion

Now, is there anyone from the architectural firm and Harvey Construction that would like to say
anything at this time?

Alderman Plamondon

Thank you. I’m glad to hear that the site plan has still had that perfects preliminary in front of it.
You’ve heard me many times, and I’m just going to say it again publicly, you heard tonight – you were
here earlier tonight; You heard about the space needs assessments and the problems facing the
City. I have a real concern with closing Commercial Street. I just want you to know right out of the
gate I’m going to have a major focus on that. I would like to see some storage put in there.
Otherwise, I’m going to be a hard sell as to why we do need to do that. Thank you.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                         Page 13

Alderman Lozeau

Can I ask a couple of questions to the members here?

Chairman Dion

Sure.

Alderman Lozeau

The first question is is we had some serious issues with a gas pipe. Have those issues been
resolved? Are we any further? Have we gotten any answers from Keyspan? Etc., etc., etc.

Chairman Dion

Can anyone answer that question?

Paul Hayner

I’m Paul Hayner from Hayner Swanson. I’m the civil engineer for the project. We have been working
with Keyspan in trying to get a cost estimate to relocate those two gas mains. That cost has not been
delivered to us as yet. We are working on that.

Alderman Lozeau

Okay, cause that still could be a serious issue.

Paul Hayner

It is, yes.

Alderman Lozeau

My next question would be to Mr. Prunier from Harvey. First of all, congratulations on receiving the
contract to build our new fire station.

Alderman Deane

He hasn’t gotten it yet.

Mr. Prunier

I’m looking forward to that.

Alderman Tollner

Mr. Chairman if I could. In meeting with the Mayor, I had a discussion with Corporation Counsel.
The Finance Committee has approved these two contractual arrangements. I think it was request for
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                          Page 14

Infrastructure to have an opportunity to approve the memo as well. That was the only thing before
the Mayor left, and the discussion I had with the Acting Mayor, that the Acting Mayor with the
agreement of the Mayor is willing to sign both contracts. They were just waiting for these two memos
to be approved by the Infrastructure Committee. As of right now as we sit here, Harvey Construction
truly doesn’t have a signed contract with the City. They are waiting for the Acting Mayor or the Mayor
to sign it. The only thing holding that up, according to Corporation Counsel, was your committee’s
approval of these two communications.

Alderman Johnson

It’s on the agenda, its sitting right here.

Alderman Tollner

I understand that, but when we start asking questions of the vendors and as we sit here right now,
they are not…

Chairman Dion

Alderman Johnson, why don’t we act on these two memos by the fire department?

Alderman Johnson

Your name is on here to make the motions. I’ll read it and you’ll just put your name in there.

INVOICES

From: Public Service of New Hampshire
Re:   Replacement of Fixture – Wood Street ($175.38)

MOTION BY ALDERMAN JOHNSON TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND APPROVE THE
PAYMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $175.38
MOTION CARRIED

From: Public Service of New Hampshire
Re:   Replacement of Fixture – Mason Street ($175.38)

MOTION BY ALDERMAN JOHNSON TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND APPROVE THE
PAYMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $175.38
MOTION CARRIED

From: Public Service of New Hampshire
Re:   Replacement of Fixture – 72 Vine Street ($175.38)

MOTION BY ALDERMAN JOHNSON TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND APPROVE THE
PAYMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF $175.38
MOTION CARRIED
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                             Page 15

COMMUNICATIONS

From: Kathryn D. Vitale, Alderman, Ward 1
Re:   Approval of Phase I – Lighting Improvements at Broad Street Roundabout

MOTION BY ALDERMAN JOHNSON TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE AND APPROVE PHASE 1
FOR THE LIGHTING IMPROVEMENTS AT THE BROAD STREET ROUNDABOUT

ON THE QUESTION

Alderman Deane

I have a number of questions. The first question I have is how are we paying for this?

Chairman Dion

Sue, do you have an answer to that or Wayne?

Wayne Husband

Well, we are looking to pay for this through the monies – well we have to look into it, but we are
looking to pay for this through the monies that we get through Risk Management for the damage
decorative poles.

Alderman Deane

My next question is I believe the design and the ownership of the roundabout and the initial
installation was a product of the school department. So, the issues with the lighting now we’re
finding that the decorative lighting does not shed enough light. I agree, it’s rather dull a few times
that I’ve up there. It’s almost as bad as the high school parking lot that has no lighting either. You go
there at night and you can’t find your car when you’re going out into the parking lot. What do you
want for $70 million? I’m just wondering on the payment end now, since this is a school facility do the
insurances through Risk cover that roundabout. I believe they do, correct?

Chairman Dion

Who’d like to answer that one?

Susan Klasen

If I may.

Chairman Dion

Yes, Sue.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                            Page 16

Susan Klasen

Back up for a moment. One of the reasons we are pursuing this is there are four light poles that have
been knocked down around the roundabout, 3 on the roundabout, and 1 on one of the entrances to
the roundabout. Therefore, the lighting tonight is insufficient. We did look at replacing the poles with
some insurance monies that we would gather. To replace one of those poles is around $3,200. The
City Traffic Department has to maintain those poles. We did talk to PSNH about the possibility of
putting up one of their decorative type poles, but then they would maintain the light fixture. However,
we would still have to maintain the damage to the pole if there was any damage. That cost is around
$1,400. We are trying to look at a low-cost solution that is less maintenance for the City of Nashua
staff and it would go to PSNH, which is why we are looking at doing this.

I have an e-mail here discussing the school department’s role. This e-mail is from Mark Conrad from
the school department. He states that the high school project paid for the roundabout as a traffic
requirement. The design of all elements, including the light poles, was driven by DPW Engineering
Department. Neither maintaining the roundabout nor dictating the replacement of the light poles
would fall to the school department. It is a DPW responsibility. So please pursue the replacement of
light poles and any other maintenance tasks as DPW deems appropriate. I think that is – this e-mail
was sort of the turning point for us when we realized it was a DPW issue instead of a school
department issue.

Chairman Dion

So in other words, the school department is washing their hands of this deal, right? Is that correct?

Susan Klasen

Yes.

Chairman Dion

In other words, they don’t want to assume responsibility for the costs. Is that the bottom line?

Susan Klasen

Yes.

Chairman Dion

What is the bottom line cost here?

Susan Klasen

For phase I, what we are looking at here…
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                         Page 17

Chairman Dion

Phase I? How many phases are we talking?

Alderman Deane

There’s four poles.

Susan Klasen

There’s four poles that are knocked down, and we’re trying to implement this in phases. Phase I is
going to be – there are two existing PSNH poles there. We’ll be extending the arms from 6 feet to 12
feet on these two poles and also increasing the wattage from 50 watts to 150 watts on those bulbs.

Chairman Dion

Cost?

Susan Klasen

The estimate, which is around $1,000 to $1,500.

Chairman Dion

Per pole?

Susan Klasen

No, total.

Chairman Dion

Total?

Susan Klasen

Yes.

Chairman Dion

And what are we talking about on this communication here for phase I?

Susan Klasen

That’s what I’m talking about.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                         Page 18

Chairman Dion

That will take care of the problem?

Susan Klasen

Well, we hope that it will. We need to put that phase one in place and then PSNH is going to conduct
a thorough light study and determine if that is adequate at that point. If it is not adequate at that
point, then we need to look and see what we need to do further. We felt that this was the least
expensive option presented before us. We are working with the Risk Management Department as
Wayne said to see if we can pay for these improvements out of the insurance money that we will be
collecting.

Chairman Dion

But you don’t have a definite answer on that from Risk Management?

Susan Klasen

Not at this time.

Alderman Deane

We’re self-insured too.

Chairman Dion

And we’re talking $1,000?

Susan Klasen

$1,500.

Chairman Dion

$1,500. We don’t know whether we’re going to get it from the insurance or not – from Risk
Management? So if we don’t get it, it comes out of your budget, right? Wayne, it comes out of your
pocket, right?

Wayne Husband

I guess it would have to come out of the Traffic Department’s budget, yes.

Chairman Dion

That’s what I’m talking about.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                           Page 19

Alderman Johnson

Thank you. With the rate we’re going with these roundabouts we might not need to (inaudible); they
keep going right through them. Where the lights are going to be place, where are they going to be
placed? Because I know there was an issue about the lighting on the homes in that area and that’s
why it was scaled down, I believe the lighting, which didn’t work. We keep going through the
roundabout or hitting walls there.

Susan Klasen

There are two on the south side of the roundabout on the high school side. There are two exiting
PSNH poles that have existing cobra headlights on them. We are going to be replacing those lights
as part of this. Those are the lights. The arms will extend further out into the right of way, and then
increase the wattage on the bulb.

Alderman Johnson

May I continue?

Chairman Dion

Yes.

Alderman Johnson

I know almost every weekend or every couple of weekends somebody just misses the turn and goes
right in there. Is there any other type of warning, I guess, for most of the time probably people can’t
see anyway because when you read some of the reports on why they have gone through the
roundabout or hit the walls. Do we have a significant amount of warning about this roundabout
already? I would think that most of the people in the City know about it, but it is very obvious that
people just – it’s only at this one. I don’t hear about that many accidents on the one at the south end
of town like I hear up at Broad Street. Am I correct?

Chairman Dion

Well, I don’t think you have as much traffic down there as you do at Broad Street.

Alderman Deane

You could get one of those signs like the real estate company up on Amherst Street has.

Alderman Johnson

I know. Maybe we should put that picture up there on how to drive the roundabout. Flashing sign –
this is how you drive the roundabout, beware.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                             Page 20

Alderman Plamondon

More people with cell phones in that area probably.

Wayne Husband

I think we have put chevrons on the approaches to the roundabout, which seem to help quite a bit.
The biggest problem that we have out there right now is that it’s dark. We really just need to increase
the illumination at night so people – that’s a start anyway to try and get it well lit.

Alderman Lozeau

Yes. Sue, I’m a little confused as to if we keep on knocking down poles. Are those poles gone and
eliminated that we’re proposing knocking down? Or are we proposing to repair those poles and let
them get knocked down again? Or are we using poles in a different location so they don’t get
knocked down? Just clear me on that.

Susan Klasen

The poles that are knocked down the City of Nashua has them, and we don’t have any plans at this
time to put them back up. The location that they were, and the amount of light that was produced by
the poles we think this is a better route to go. We aren’t proposing any new poles anywhere. We are
using existing ones right now. Alderman Vitale had asked with the poles that are knocked down that
we have over at the traffic building if we have a use for those anywhere else in the City. We are just
sort of retaining those right now. We will be looking into that.

Alderman Lozeau

If I can continue. I’d recommend Mine Falls Park for those poles. Thank you.

Chairman Dion

Alderman Vitale, you sponsored this legislation. Would you like to – there’s a couple of more
aldermen that want to speak, but I’d like to have your input.

Alderman Vitale

No. We just discussed this a number of times. Unfortunately, the poles that were there looked great
I think when they were all up. The lighting was okay at that time. But we can’t continue to pay for the
accidents that are happening with the poles and putting them back up. So this is a good solution for
the location. The existing poles hopefully we find a good spot in the City they will not get hit by cars.

Alderman Deane

I just want to move on with this after. The poles that I’ve seen up there that have been on the ground
didn’t look as though they were in any sort of condition to do a little touch of painting and place
somewhere else. I mean the bases were busted off of them. I think the biggest problem is where the
sonar tube balas where the placement of those were in the circle itself, the roundabout itself, weren’t
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                               Page 21

strategically placed in an area where if it had been looked at a little closer, if they had been moved
and placed in different spots, I don’t think they’d be getting hit like they are. Even with all of them up,
I think the lighting is extremely poor around that with what exists. I just say let the Traffic Department
move forward and deal with it as best. We also have to understand that all the wiring is underground.
It all runs up through a conduit and it’s all encased in concrete from my understanding. When the
fixture drops on the top of the balas, moving those things around is not an easy chore. If you
remember correctly when they built that roundabout I requested that they put in the conduit
underneath the street. By the time they had everything said and done, they hadn’t bid out when they
put everything down, there was no wiring included in the price so there was no electricity running
through the things. Just take care of it and do the best you can. I’m sure those things will be
knocked down time and time again. It doesn’t’ matter what you put up there; they’re going to be hit.
I don’t’ think the lack of lighting in that area has anything to do with why people are hitting them.

Chairman Dion

You think it’s the speed or the lack of attention?

Alderman Deane

I think it’s both. I think it’s the speed once the get in there because it is basically it’s the same couple
that get hit more often than not, right? It’s the one on the right hand side as you’re going up Broad
Street, and the one coming into the City on the right hand side are the two that get whacked all the
time. That’s when people don’t negotiate that corner. That’s what happens.

Alderman Plamondon

Thank you. I think for obvious reasons safety of someone – we need to have Traffic Department
move forward with this. If I might through you Mr. Chair, I would like to pose a question to
Superintendent of Traffic or the Traffic Engineer, whomever has the answer.

Chairman Dion

Go ahead.

Alderman Plamondon

Considering as we mentioned the City is self-insured, have police reports been filed on this? Are
their insurance companies that we are going after that the offending drivers who caused this damage
– does anybody know? It’s not just out of our insurance, right? We’re going after their insurance?
Does anybody know?

Susan Klasen

I can’t give you a complete answer, but I can tell you that I did look into the accident reports. We do
have one accident report here that there was no significant damage to a pole. It isn’t one of these
poles that we are talking about tonight. There was another accident for one of the poles that was
knocked over. To the best of my knowledge, we haven’t received accident reports for the other
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                       Page 22

three. I know the Risk Management Department has been working on this and trying to determine
the best who they need to go after and the type of funding we could use for this.

Alderman Plamondon

So are you saying it is possible that two of the poles that have been knocked down and leveled, as
Alderman Deane has stated, is so bad a shape that we can’t even reuse them, it is possible that
accident reports haven’t been filed on those two because we don’t know at this stage?

Susan Klasen

I don’t know.

Chairman Dion

I thought when an accident was $1,000 or more a report had to be filed?

Alderman Plamondon

Hit and run.

Chairman Dion

Hit and run. But we still file a report?

Alderman Deane

Depends on the condition you’re in when you hit it.

Chairman Dion

I mean the police department.

Alderman Plamondon

If they are notified.

Alderman Deane

So the motion on the floor is to…

Chairman Dion

Yes.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                           Page 23

Alderman Deane

Concur with the memo presented pertaining to the…

Chairman Dion

Yes.

Alderman Deane

Okay. Thank you.

Chairman Dion

That’s the motion made by Alderman Johnson.
MOTION CARRIED

MOTION BY ALDERMAN DION THAT THE RULES BE SO FAR SUSPENDED AS TO ALLOW
FOR THE INTRODUCTION OF TWO COMMUNICATIONS RECEIVED AFTER THE AGENDA
WAS PREPARED
MOTION CARRIED

From:          Janice Tremblay, Purchasing Manager
Re:            Contract Award for Architect’s Services for the East Hollis Street Fire Station
               Construction

MOTION BY ALDERMAN DION TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE, AND
AWARD THE CONTRACT TO SUMNER DAVIS ARCHITECTS INC. IN THE AMOUNT OF $329,500
PENDING CERTIFICATION FROM BOND COUNSEL ON BOND AUTHORIZATION. SOURCE OF
FUNDING IS ACCOUNT 732-53095-3703 MEMO #05-086

ON THE QUESTIONS

Alderman Deane

I would just like Alderman Johnson to add into that motion at the very end, Alderman Johnson, just
put memo #05-086.

Alderman Johnson

Could you say it again.

Alderman Deane

It’s right on the front. Right on the top left hand corner right under the date.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                             Page 24

Alderman Johnson

Okay.

Alderman Deane

And I request that on the next motion as well please.

MOTION BY ALDERMAN DION FOR FINAL PASSAGE
MOTION CARRIED

From: Janice Tremblay, Purchasing Manager
Re:   Contract Award for Construction Manager for the East Hollis Street Fire Station Construction

MOTION BY ALDERMAN DION TO ACCEPT, PLACE ON FILE, AND AWARD THE CONTRACT
TO HARVEY CONSTRUCTION CORPORATION IN THE AMOUNT OF $188,000.00 PENDING
CERTIFICATION FROM BOND COUNSEL AND BOND AUTHORIZATION. FUNDS ARE
AVAILABLE IN ACCT. #732-01310-3703 MEMO #05-087

ON THE QUESTION

Alderman Deane

I abstained.

Chairman Dion

Excuse me.

Alderman Deane

I abstain. I have a perceived conflict, so I’m abstaining from voting on this. I did it at Finance and I’m
doing it here.

Chairman Dion

What is your reason for abstaining if I may ask?

Alderman Deane

I’ve worked with one of these individuals when I ran for public office.

Chairman Dion

Then I will change my vote to yeah.
MOTION CARRIED

ON THE QUESTION
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                          Page 25


Alderman Deane

I’d like to ask the acting president of the Board, I think he’s acting anyways. Been acting for quite
some time. Since you are the liaison to the fire department, what is the time frame of when this is
gong to be started. Your past recent discussions?

Alderman Tollner

What I’d like to do, I think Brian has – Assistant Chief – has the most up-to-date information.

Assistant Chief Morrissey

Yes, I think we have a schedule here.

Alderman Deane

A timeline?

Assistant Chief Morrissey

A timeline schedule, yes.

Alderman Deane

Are we going to get copies of that? Are you going to distribute that?

Unidentified Male Speaker

This was given to me by Harvey Construction.

Rob Prunier

This is Rob Prunier from Harvey Construction. I don’t have copies of this, but I’ll get them for you.

Alderman Deane

Electronically hopefully?

Rob Prunier

Yes, we can send them in a PDF format.

Alderman Deane

Yes.

Rob Prunier
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                             Page 26


If it is all right, maybe we can send it to – I’m not sure if I have everyone’ e-mail address. But we can
get it to you.

Alderman Deane

Get it to me and I can distribute it.

Rob Prunier

Essentially, I think in terms of the timeline, we’ve assumed that this would be a 10-month
construction period. We’re targeting a mid-June start, but that is assuming that everything falls into
place in terms of approvals, documents, and what have you. We are in a position to start that. We
want to expedite it as much as possible so that we can avoid any major winter conditions later on.
Does that help give you a little bit of a conceptual timeline of where we are at?

Alderman Deane

Yes. I just wanted to know – the plans are done, correct? Basically.

Rob Prunier

No.

Alderman Deane

None of them are done? None of the footprints are done?

Kelly Davis

Kelly Davis, architect. The schematic layout of the floor plans and the elevations is done. None of
the engineering has started.

Alderman Deane

That’s Paul’s job?

Kelly Davis

Well Paul is and others are doing the site, traffic, environmental, geotechnical work. But as far as
mechanical, plumbing, HVAC, electrical, fire protection, and all the architectural details – none of
that has started.

Alderman Deane

My next question is, when are we going – there’s been a lot of talk about the building, but I think we
should probably have a get together and go over the conceptual design of what the design of what
the building is going to look like, what’s there, and there have been other requests. So I think I’d ask
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                           Page 27

the Chief to try and get something together soon so that we can settle that issue and bring it back so
everybody is on the same page before you get your pencils out and start drawing. We can meet
anywhere. We don’t have to come to this committee. We can meet with you fellows.

Unidentified Male Speaker

We’ll just have to develop a place where we can all sit together and have a discussion, timelines, and
stuff.

Alderman Deane

Right. Why don’t you try to schedule that in the next couple of weeks would be nice or whenever he
plans on – the architect starts going. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Dion

Thank you. Anyone else from the fire department have anything to say right now? Are we all
through?

Paul Hayner

Paul Hayner from Hayner Swanson. We’re going to the Planning Board on May 5th with our site plan.

Chairman Dion

Okay.

Paul Hayner

Thirty day appeal period after that, so it kind of dovetails with the construction schedule starting in
June at the earliest. Assuming we get approved and the site plan is well or wrong, we’re practically
done with our work.

Chairman Dion

Anyone else? Okay. Thank you very much gentlemen for appearing here this evening.

Assistant Chief Morrissey

Thank you Mr. Chairman and members of the committee for making time for us to appear this
evening.

Chairman Dion

Good luck on your projects.

UNFINISHED BUSINESS - None
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                            Page 28

NEW BUSINESS - None

HELD IN COMMITTEE

Petitions

Petition to Release and Discharge from all Public Servitude a Dedicated Way on Pope Circle

Petition for Street Acceptance: Federal Hill Road

Ordinances

O-04-47
    Endorser: Alderman Marc W. Plamondon
    INCREASING THE MINIMUM FINE FOR VIOLATIONS RELATING TO PARKING
    METER VIOLATIONS

O-04-54
    Endorsers: Alderman Robert A. Dion
               Alderman David D. Lozeau
               Alderman-at-Large Paula I. Johnson
               Alderman-at-Large David Rootovich
    AMENDING THE REGULATION OF USE OF SKATEBOARDS, ROLLERBLADES
    AND OTHER SIMILAR DEVICES

O-05-71
    Endorsers: Alderman David D. Lozeau
               Alderman-at-Large David W. Deane
    CREATING A NO PARKING ZONE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF FRENCH STREET

DISCUSSION

Alderman Plamondon

Because we had the space needs assessment before – Scott Geno was going to come tonight. I was
going to move to remove 04-47, but for the sake of time and everything I thought I’d try to address that
at another time.

Chairman Dion

Was he supposed to be here, Alderman Plamondon? Would you like him to be here?

Alderman Plamondon

Yes. He was going – we had talked about this a couple weeks ago and up until a couple days. A
couple days ago when I knew the schedule and I thought this could very well likely be a late night, I
suggested to him to just stay home. We’ll address this again. He’s got all the spread sheets and
everything.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                               Page 29


Chairman Dion

Well I hope…

Alderman Plamondon

So we can move forward.

Chairman Dion

…Lt. Siegel also. I received a call from him. I told him to stay home with his family this evening. We
didn’t have much as far as ordinances were concerned to change the police department. So I told him
to spend the evening with his family. Maybe Scott will be here at the next meeting. Maybe we can
discuss it then.

Alderman Plamondon

Yes. He was ready to come tonight.

Chairman Dion

Under discussion I’d like to advise the committee of some serious happenings. I received a phone call
from Dot Nice…end of side A – Tape 1…a year or so. She had to bring for a scan today. The results
weren’t very good. He’s got to go through major surgery. He’s got to go in the hospital tomorrow for
blood, and major surgery is going to be scheduled. So she is pretty distraught. I’m sure the committee
joins me in wishing her husband good health and success with his pending surgery. Just thought I’d
bring you up to date on what happened.

Alderman Johnson

Thank you. A couple of things. First of all before I get into one big discussion, in two weeks I will not be
here at the next meeting. My husband and I are taking a well-deserved vacation after 14 years of being
self-employed. We’re taking four days and going away.

Chairman Dion

Good for you.

Alderman Johnson

Well, we haven’t been away in 14 years and I figure….

Unidentified Male Speaker

Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Alderman Johnson
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                             Page 30


No we couldn’t get out because I waited so long for a vacation, so we’re flying out Sunday, Monday,
Tuesday, Wednesday and coming back on Thursday. I wanted to say that (inaudible) over my house
after my passed away. Walt sent over a cake to us – a bundt cake, a chocolate bundt cake.

Chairman Dion

She’s such a kind lady I’ll tell you.

Alderman Johnson

So I did appreciate everything they have done for me during this time of sorrow for my family. I just
wanted to bring up 42 Pine Street. IS that the correct number? That nice house there. That last year
when the weather was nice and warm we all took a tour through that house. We kind of gave it away.
We give everything away in the City. I’d like to know what the status of that property? I’ve gone by and
I don’t see anything happening over there. Have they even take ownership of the property at this point
in time?

Chairman Dion

I think Alderman Plamondon is his ward. You’ll probably get an answer for you.

Alderman Plamondon

I sure can. I had some things I wanted to mention too. Actually this is a very worthwhile cause. I don’t
really like the comment about giving everything away. This is for the mental handicapped and getting
them back into society. They want to take it over. However, we have a confusion lines, if I may term it
that way. If you remember out of this committee we stated that we wanted a study done as far as what
was there for hazardous waste so that they could sign off on responsibilities. They had no issue.
However, what the legal documents that our counsel have draw up, they have had several engineering
firms – a couple have come forward to do an almost gratis and laboratories. I have personally spoken
with two engineering firms and told them clearly what this committee wanted. Every single engineering
firm to date up until – I haven’t spoken to them in about 10 days where they are working with another
engineering firm to try to get them to do the work. Every engineering firm comes back and says we see
this paperwork from the City lawyers and you need a comprehensive study. The prices have ranged
anywhere from $8,000 to I think a high of $15,000. That’s where the problem lies. They want to take it
over. They want to go in. The thing is they are gutting the whole place. Any lead paint or if there is any
asbestos lining the pipes in the cellar, which would be the only asbestos in the place, that is all coming
out. They are removing it all. However, with the stipulations that were put forward out of our legal for
the signing over the deed, requests this engineering study.

Chairman Dion

Have you gone to the Legal Department and see if you can some of that wording changed?
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                             Page 31

Alderman Plamondon

They had called. I have expressed these concerns. I have not been able to physically go there. I have
made several calls. I don’t know where we are at. I haven’t heard any changes. That is basically
where it lies. They want to get in there. They want to start – they’ve gone and they’ve cleaned up the
yard. The had a whole bunch of people over. If you remember over by the fence the garbage was
piled up to the top rail of the chain-linked fence. They’ve gone in there and cleaned it up. They want to
go in and gut the place and get the project moving forward. To date, this is where the process lies in
getting that deed signed is a very expensive engineering study. I have not heard back from the current
engineer who said that he was willing to look at it. Do it gratis or no more than $1,000. That may be in
the works now. I hope to follow up with them early next week to see what this engineer has come
forward. I’m sorry I wasn’t prepared. I could give you names of the engineering firms and so on and so
forth.

Chairman Dion

This has been going on forever.

Alderman Plamondon

I know.

Alderman Deane

I have no interest in changing any of the language in any of the legislation we filed. We gave the piece
of property away for next to nothing. The criteria on the language that we put in the legislation was to
make sure that the City wasn’t liable when environmental issues in that facility. Us going back after the
fact and putting ourselves in harms way by removing that language…

Alderman Plamondon

That’s not the intent.

Alderman Deane

I’m just saying Alderman Plamondon. There was mention made of changing the language. We should
– they have…may I continue please? They have the piece of property. They have to deal with the cost
of dealing with the environmental issues that may or may not be there. That was one of the
requirements that we had put on. They wholeheartedly supported that. I do realize that they are
expensive to do, but when you look at the piece of property and how it was deeded over, they are just
going to have to find a way to pay for it. It is unfortunate but.

Chairman Dion

I’m sure that language, Alderman Deane, was put in there to protect the City’s back as far as lawsuits
are concerned.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                               Page 32

Alderman Deane

Absolutely.

Chairman Dion

No doubt in my mind that’s why that language was put in there.

Alderman Plamondon

I didn’t infer or (inaudible) in the language of what came out of this committee. The way I understand
what came out of this committee is the City basically does not want to be held liable for any hazardous
materials bottom line. So if the organization were to sign held harmless or sign off on accepting any
and all hazardous materials, or full responsibility that would suffice to what this committee put forward
on the legislation. What I’m trying to say is what this committee put forward and the interpretation of
counsel is where the hang up is. In other words, I think there is more than one way to skin a cat. To
suffice to what this committee wants, and I agree with, is that the City is not and will not in any point of
time now or in the future be held liable for anything. I’m not saying that that needs a change or
whatever, nothing a change out of this committee. Possible a change out of what legal has written up.

Alderman Johnson

Okay. Basically, I guess I’d like to know if they’re not going to be able to afford to have the consultants
come in and survey the property, then I think we need to look at other options at this point in time.

Alderman Plamondon

No.

Alderman Johnson

Well hear me out. I mean this has been going on for a long time. We’ve got all this surplus property. If
they can’t do what needs to be done, because I’m not going to have the City being liable for this
property. Maybe we need to come back and revisit it. Maybe they need to come back to the committee
and just tell us where they are heading with the property. It’s just about a year already that we did the
site. I know this seems to happen more than once in the City that we give property away and we expect
it to be done in a reasonable amount of time for ownership to change hands and now it’s not
happening. I understand there is a lot of issues. There’s lead paint; there’s asbestos in the basement.
I guess there has to be a time frame that we have to work with without having it just being an
open-ended piece of legislation that we deeded over to them. I’m not saying it’s not for a worthy cause,
but I’m saying at this point in time we need to move forward. We need to know are they going to accept
the property and get the money that they need to do the study with, or do we move to see if there is
another organization that is out there that can afford to do all this and take over the property. It’s gone
on too long.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                                 Page 33

Alderman Deane

I would like to see the property cleaned up. But then again, I understand the plight of the group as well
as what Alderman Plamondon has explained. I do understand that there may be some deficiencies
with their finances right now. They did come in. I would like to – it’s going on quite a bit of time, but it’s
not like it’s on the tax rolls and things of that nature. What I’m requesting, I think as Alderman
Plamondon has stated, we’re beating a dead horse here. At our next meeting, Alderman Plamondon,
why don’t you speak with Legal and then come back and explain to us what we can and can’t do. Then
we can take some action from there instead of – cause we’re talking about something now we just don’t
have any control over. I would suggest we just move on on this one.

Chairman Dion

Are you agreeable to that Alderman Plamondon?

Alderman Plamondon

Yes.

Chairman Dion

Is there anything you would like to add?

Alderman Plamondon

Yes. It hasn’t really been that long since the legislation passed. It has been less than six months.
We’ve been looking at the project for a long time.

Chairman Dion

I think that’s the same day Alderman Deane got a parking ticket.

Alderman Deane

It is. I haven’t had one since. I did pay it in cash.

Alderman Plamondon

To make my point clear, that is when we did the walk through. Form when the legislation passed, it
was quite a while after that probably 60 days.

Alderman Deane

It was the same day.
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                               Page 34

Alderman Plamondon

As far as the costs, as you know these non-profits work within a budget. So $12,000 is a huge part of
the project. If you take a large chunk of your budget to rehab, to gut a building and rehab it, to go into
a complete engineering with site boars and so on and so forth when they fully accept all liability and
responsibility. To take $12,000 out of their budget for that when it is really not necessary if they
assume all of the responsibility, you have to think from their perspective they are a non-profit trying to
do some community good. They only have so much money. You have to budget very tightly. I will
speak to Legal. I hope to hear from their engineer first and speak to Legal. This might be resolved with
this current engineer hopefully that they are working with. I think there’s been like 6 or 7 engineering
firms to date. There’s been several.

Alderman Johnson

Thank you. You said something very interesting just now. You know when you are a non-profit
organization and you only have a budget of maybe $12,000 to work with that really should apply to the
City here. When we have a budget and we only have X amount of dollars to work with, you can’t expect
people to pay for more than what you have budgeted. It is very interesting that you would bring this up
at this point in time. Thank you Alderman Plamondon.

Chairman Dion

That’s the name of the game Alderman Johnson. You don’t spend more than you earn.

Alderman Johnson

That’s right. If you live within a budget, you can’t expect more revenues to come in if you don’t have the
money.

Chairman Dion

Remember that Alderman Plamondon…

Alderman Plamondon

Please to shots, I don’t appreciate them one bit. The conversation I was referring to was they’re a
non-profit and to have a budget and to spend money unwisely or unfrugally. That’s the point I was
trying to make. I think we all try to spend our money as frugal as possible and for the best interest in the
City. If there was any personal attack towards me on those comments, I don’t appreciate them.

Alderman Johnson

There wasn’t any personal attack…

Alderman Plamondon

While I have the floor, I also want to mention to citizens of Nashua tomorrow night the 14th at the
Planning Board. A large – I don’t have the paperwork with me, actually I do, but a large additional drug
Infrastructure – 4/13/05                                                        Page 35

store is proposing to go in at the corner of Otterson and Main Street. It will have traffic impacts
downtown, Otterson, Elm Street area, Elm Street Middle School area. Anyone who has concerns
please come to the Planning board meeting tomorrow night starting at 7:00.

Also on the agenda is the proposed huge methadone clinic for Pine Street as well. Tomorrow night
could be a very important night, and I would encourage anyone to please show up and express their
concerns or support. Thank you.

ADJOURNMENT

MOTION BY ALDERMAN LOZEAU TO ADJOURN
MOTION CARRIED

The meeting of the Committee on Infrastructure was adjourned at 9:50 p.m.


                                                   Alderman-at-Large Paula I. Johnson, Clerk
                                                   Committee on Infrastructure

				
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