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					  The This Week in Photo
     Interview Series:

                    with


Natalie Dybisz
Interviewed	
  by:	
  Frederick	
  Van	
  Johnson
Frederick: My guest today is Natalie Dybisz. She's an artist who in many ways defies
categorization, though many have tried. She has accomplished an amazing amount in
her career, especially since she just started a few short years ago, including landing Mi-
crosoft as a client, and having her work appear on the cover of American Photo. Her
work is among the most viewed on Flickr and each photo sparks a full-on conversation
in the comments.

Natalie, welcome to This Week in Photography.

Natalie: Hello, Frederick. Thank you very much for having me in here.

Frederick: Oh, it's my pleasure. I got to tell you, it's early here. It's about 7:45 a.m. and
what time is it across the pond over there?

Natalie: Close to 4.

Frederick: So, I want to let you know that it's your fault that I was up half the night, look-
ing at your photos, I was in you. I got sucked in, like I'm sure lots of people have to your
Flickr stream and I was just - I couldn't break-free.

Natalie: That's good to hear, I think.

Frederick: It's amazing work, amazing work.

Natalie: Thank you very much. Thank you.

Frederick: Yup. Thank you for putting it together. So, speaking of that or one of the
things I noticed on in your Flickr stream is the number of views that each photo has. I
mean, how do you explain - one of them is mostly going to have 45,000, one had
50,000 views on one image, how do you explain that?

Natalie: Yeah. People do pick on me about that but yeah, I think it's just a combination
of many things really. I think anybody can use this tool like Flickr for so long. It's going
to kind of naturally accrue about - I think the networking site of being on a site like that
and kind of importing into other people's work and then they will come up to yours, or for
a natural period of time, is going to get a lot of people on your Flickr feed but yes, well, a
lot of people will have their own kind of explanation as to why my work might be popular
or why so many people might be looking at it but yeah, I like to think of it as a kind of
engineering over time or maybe almost absent-mindedly because at first, I just started
uploading pictures without really thinking about what would lead to anything and people
just came and a kind of fan base, if you like, kind of accrued over time, but yeah. I don't
know. The numbers are quite high but I think Flickr itself is a very popular site as well
and a lot of people are using that more and more to share their images. So, yeah.

Frederick: Yeah. Let's talk about that a little bit. So, a couple of things, I had an inter-
view with an artist, another photographer, by the name of Rebekka and she's also on
Flickr and she's also very popular and she's a self-portrait artist as well and reading
through your essay, you touched on some of the topics that she actually touched on in
the interview that she and I talked about in terms of how do you gauge popularity or is
the popularity of your work in your Flickr stream due to the fact that you're the pretty girl
that's taking pictures of herself and putting them online or is it something else? I know
you went through that in this great blog post on your blog and I encourage people to go
read it but I wanted you to just talk to that a little bit because you explained it very well.

Natalie: Yeah, I think - well, Rebekka was one of my first inspirations when I came onto
Flickr. I won't even try and pronounce her surname but yeah.

Frederick: Yeah, me neither.

Natalie. But because I did this into the interview you had with her which was very inter-
esting and yes, it's a big topic because it's one that most of the time up to now, I've not
really known how to answer without sounding like I'm just kind of making kind of a self-
ish excuse for who I am and what I do and I want to do what I want because I'm an artist
and in terms of being pitched to myself, but the more I thought about it and indeed in the
blog post site you read where I talked about how I presented myself at Photocamp in
Bradford here in England, I think I had started to get better at articulating myself on the
topic without sounding like too defensive or too kind of, I don't know, kind of scared of
what people think and that is this idea that when people do ask you about the issue of
whether it's easy to take pictures of your young arguably attractive female, it starts off
with first of all the basic positioning, which is the person who can ask the question like
that is somebody's who's invariably not that person or somebody who is maybe an older
male who doesn't use himself as a subject. But like on Flickr, for example, not just
Flickr, but because this is the site I use a lot. On Flickr, I've noticed that there are lot of
young women who are taking images of themselves and they wouldn't ask each other
that same question because they are young women themselves. So, in a way, in order
to ask that question, "is there an easy job?" - you have to be somebody else. You have
to be invariably an older man. So, I think the first question is appropriation. The first
question is what we're used to seeing in photography and by whom and we're used to
seeing images that when we say images of women, of attractive women, they're usually
taken by famous male photographers in the imaging industry and we're not used to the
idea of a woman who takes pictures of herself and then gets some credit for the work
that she has created because no one really would say that, for example, images in the
fashion magazine taken by a famous male photographer but he had somehow an easier
job or that his work is somehow invalid because these models are attractive. So, I think
the question is one of appropriation and is one of what we're used to and what we're not
used to and things being new and challenging because more and more women like my-
self are taking pictures of ourselves.

Frederick: Yeah, that's very true and I think you hit the nail right on the head there. The
people or the demographic will say of the folks that are calling that out are the ones who
can't do it. So, it's maybe just boils down to plain old jealousy, look at now, she's got
60,000 views on that shot and I would never be able to take a photo of myself that gets
60,000 views.

Natalie: Yeah. Yeah and the thing is that when people do ask me, "Do you think you
would have so many views or where there is so much popularity," the answer is well, no,
but there's kind of like there definitely is an appeal in my images because I might pre-
sent myself in an attractive way in my images but there's a kind of like futility to saying
like what you've just said that a lot people say, would I get that many views on my pic-
ture, the answer is no but in the process of making that statement, they're almost ex-
pressing a kind of antagonism towards you for doing it because in a way, yeah, you've
done it and you've got all these views and it probably is because of reason X next, but
there's kind of like a hostility towards a woman who does do that. She almost is kind of
turning the tables and getting the attention for herself which I think is something that
people or certain people - yeah, what you say, a little bit jealous of.

Frederick: Yeah but it's not, for the folks who haven't seen your work yet, I would en-
courage them to check out your blog and check out your Flickr stream and wherever
out, just Google you, but I think it's not just a matter of you could easily discern by just
listening to his conversation that, oh, she just takes all these snapshots of herself and
puts them online and just narcissist, they can - but when looking at the work, it doesn't
matter that you took the photos. When I was looking at the work, the photos were just
they're art and it's just brilliant pieces and the fact that they're so portrait, at least in my
opinion, they're so portraits, is secondary to the fact that I'm looking at this stunning
piece of whether it's a composite or otherwise and it's just - I could see it hanging giant
on the wall somewhere. The fact that the artist herself created or the subject took the
photo is almost secondary to me.

Natalie: Yeah.

Frederick: So then, let's talk a little bit about the history. So, how long have you been in
photography or compositing and doing all the kind of work that you're doing, how long
have you been doing this?

Natalie: Probably since 2006, so just over about three and a half years now.

Frederick: That's amazing. So, in just three and a half years, you've taken your career
from essentially nowhere to being a name, a recognized name in the industry and hav-
ing the cover of photography magazines. How did you do it?

Natalie: I'm not entirely sure but it just seemed to kind of come out of nowhere. I mean,
without kind of sounding complacent or resting on my laurels now in terms of having a
career, but I am, however, at the moment kind of making a living from photography, so
I'm pleased to be able to say that at least so far that that has happened and that's only
since the February because before that, I was still in my studies doing English and me-
dia at a university. So, I got into photography while - on aside from my degree in my
spare time, so it really was like something I developed a passion for on my own initiative
and largely due to the folks who are sharing and the way in which you could share your
work with people and I literally started sharing my work from day one of starting to cre-
ate it and I wasn't really aiming for anything in doing so. I just literally had a passion
and curiosity for it, which I think is an important kind of point because I didn't have a re-
set goal or do things the way you technically should do them. I just played about with
them in the way that I found personally interesting and then when I noticed, the com-
ments and the popularity in the comments there, coming in on Flickr, that's when I
started to think, right, oh man, I've got something here going and when I was little, I did
want to be, I had a dream of becoming an artist and I do like the idea of creating, of al-
ways kind of being creative. So, I think subconsciously, it was something that I wanted
to go into but it became more and more conscious as this three-year period went on and
personally, I didn't think that I would come out my degree and be able to make a kind of
full-time living from it but that's the way it seems to have happened and because of what
the internet exposure has (11:16) the opportunities into and the exhibitions and the pub-
licity is kind of starting to pay off, which I didn't expect so I'm still kind of in disbelief over
a little bit, but yeah, that's what it seems to be happening and more and more, I'm realiz-
ing the importance and the kind of relevance of being able to share your work online
and the fact that it does reach a physical external world and it's not all the kind of
(11:41) varies and not in this hype, it can actually mean something.

Frederick: Yeah. Now, I would say that you are in a unique position or maybe not
unique but at the top of the pyramid in terms of being able to comment on Flickr. So,
because you have so much traffic on Flickr and you've seen so many comments on
Flickr, I would say that you're an authority there. So, my question for you is, there's
been a lot of conversation back and forth on This Week in Photography and elsewhere
about the tone of the comments on Flickr seem to be overly positive. Can you talk to
that a little bit in terms of is it helpful for people to strictly adhere to the rule, if you don't
have something nice to say, don't say anything at all or is it better to be harsh?

Natalie: Really interesting debate and I've kind of battled with that over the three years
I've been on that site. Yeah, it's difficult. I mean, I've always kind of - I've had kind of
various conflicts in my head regarding it because on one level, I do think that if you don't
have anything nice to say, you shouldn't say anything at all or kind of the thing that your
mom would say but yeah because I think definitely that applies, in that when people do
write negative comments in my experience and on my pictures on Flickr, I've always
found that they're invariably part in a condescending or rude way of really come across
somebody who can write something that's critical but not rude and I think that's why
when somebody does write a critical comment, that's also rude and people antagonize
that comment or the people comment and defend the person whose work that's being
discussed and the commented then takes the impression that people don't like this an-
tagonism when actually, it's most likely the tone in which they're delivering it that's the
problem but I have come across people who can delivery constructive criticism that's
putting their articular on a kind of then polite way and those comments are always wel-
come. Well then, that still begs the question, somebody who puts their work on Flickr,
what do they want? Do they want people just to see it or do they actually want feed-
back in terms of what can be improved and then, if you are asking for kind of room for
comments on improvement, then it all depends on somebody's personal opinion and I
think well, the big question here is whether photography is being kind of posted as not
or as a skill. So, the people who are doing photography, put in photography on Flickr,
and they actually want to get better in terms of probably being skilled and they not even
write on their pictures "feedback wanted' as opposed to the person who wants to pro-
duce art and then just puts it on Flickr and wants people to see it and I think kind of
more in the latter category, that I think those people don't necessarily want any kind of
feedback that's based on the opinion of the commenter. I would have preferred a differ-
ent crop part, I would have preferred if you have done this, not the other.

And so yeah, it's a big debate and even though I do generally fall in that second cate-
gory, somebody who just likes to do images and show people and if you like it, tell me
and if you don't, then there's lots of other stuff to look at, at the same time, I don't dis-
courage anybody from commenting on my work and saying what they don't like about it
or I wouldn't kind of beat them down with sticks and although sometimes you can't let go
to that and you can take it personally if somebody writes something negative. I think
that in this day, I don't mind to the comments that - I really don't mind people coming on
to my pictures and saying what they don't like about the images. I think it's great that
people can express their opinion and to follow and Flickr offers this democracy if you
like, but I think the people who make the comments have to be careful that they are not
kind of making it seem as if they're doing it for another reason, to be kind of seen by
other people or to try and track attention to themselves, so they've got to consider that
for themselves and...

Frederick: Yeah. No. You go ahead.

Natalie: But it is also problematic as an artist as well because you do start to think well,
I can put anything on the internet and certain group of people will come forward and
say, "We love it." And there are a lot of sickly comments going out on Flickr about
you're awesome, you're amazing, not just piece of work with the person, the person be-
comes God almost to the certain groups of people and that becomes a little bit over-
bearing and sometimes, it's nice just to step away from the internet and really consider
why you're doing a piece of work and do it for yourself and not subconsciously for your
viewers.

Frederick: Yeah. Well, I think it's fuel as well. I mean, everybody likes to hear good
things about their work and I think it would be encouraging to get comments and positiv-
ity lavished on you and I would push on to the next level but it takes a very strong per-
son not to get jaded by that and to take it with a grain of salt and say - maybe all this
isn't true and maybe I can't improve, maybe I'm not floating, but yeah, I think, it's an in-
teresting world. I think as people learn more about Flickr and get deeper into Flickr and
social media and sharing their work online, certain patterns will emerge in terms of how
best to do it and what to (17:27) into and what not to.

So, Flickr, continuing on that vein and not to belabor it because I know your work is in
other places as well and I want get to that in a second but tips for photographers that
are just starting to put images on Flickr. Maybe they have a Flickr account that they've
had for several years and haven't enjoyed the success and the traffic that you have,
what tips would you give them to boost the traffic, if that's what they're looking for to
their images or in other words, how best to use Flickr?

Natalie: Well, I think my tips would kind of fall into two categories, one that was literally
about how to use the site and the other group of tips which is more about kind of con-
ceptually as an artist, how to kind of drive yourself and what to try and then ignore and
what to pay attention to. So, the first tips might involve things like coming more to
Facebook than to Flickr, I was aware that if you commented on other people's work,
then it would kind of be putting your name out there and people might click on your
name and while I started and did that in it's most kind of superficial sense of the word
and sense of the act, I would literally comment on people's work I really like and try to
spend time looking, browsing through explorer and finding pictures I like and favoriting
images and that tends to kind of - people see a name and they might click and return
favor and comment on your own work but I quickly kind of got bored of that because if
there's someone's work I like, I might add them as a contact but it's not the most, it's not
the best way to bring people to your own stream really. I think what I pretended to do is
give tips out more about how to be as an artist and that is to produce, concentrate on
producing work that is very personal and very different and consciously trying to be dif-
ferent from anybody else.

But in the article that you said you read on my blog to do with - that presentation at Pho-
tocamp in Bradford. I raised this issue about kind of how someday who shares their
work on Flickr like myself or on any kind of website, somebody who shared their work
on a website from day one of creating work, the actual work might start to become a lit-
tle bit different and I could call myself a kind of web (19:57) artist because the work I
produced is being affected by the medium to which I've shared it. So, it could say that
my work, when you view my work from mail size on the screen, it's appealing composi-
tionally even at that kind of tiny postage stamp dimension and I think the people whose
work is most popular on Flickr are people who have kind of subconsciously or con-
sciously taken a grasp of how to produce images that are really appealing from mail
size because when you go into Flickr, you see all these thumbnails and you got to click
on them before you see anyone's picture bigger and then even then, it's only kind of
postcard size on the screen. So generally, the pictures are going to be popular of those
that are colorful, impactful, and maybe quite a simple composition and very striking and
I know there's a certain type of Flickr photograph which is being kind of described in the
press actually, kind of a picture that uses modern digital cameras and kind of boosted
colors and I think color goes hand in hand with the digital photography, of the process-
ing and of kind of modern scene and Flickr goes hand in hand with that, so it might work
differently. So, my work would definitely be construed as different in its actual media
language.

Frederick: Yeah. It's interesting. I'm looking at your set of 600+ favs right now. I'm
looking at the thumbnail view, the first page of it, and you're right. I mean, it's definitely -
the thumbs are drawing me into because I can tell or I really want to click on that one
next or I really want to see this one whereas if they were composed differently or com-
posed without and maybe, it just goes back to just plain old composition. If your com-
position is strong, then the image is going to be strong and the thumbnail will be strong
with the strong subject, so that's right. The other thing that was interesting that I read
about you in your post was you were talking about just the same thing you just said with
the composing for the thumbnail but in my mind, I was thinking, what a start contrast to
in the olden days where photographers were - the whole goal was to get a gallery show
and have gigantic images on the wall and if you've done that, and you can walk around
and have cheese and bread and talk about your work, then you've made it. But you
contrast that to what you're saying and it's the thumbnail in terms of composition and a
postage-sized photo is probably how people are going to view your work going forward.
So, you want to talk about that a little bit, so take us out of the Flickr world and into the
Adam-based world of galleries. How do you feel about having and have you had a gal-
lery show yet and is that an aspiration of yours?

Natalie: Oh yeah. I mean - yeah, I've had my first exhibition in 2006 which was - sorry
2007 - which was exactly a year after I started to share my work on Flickr and since
then, I've had more exhibitions in Europe and also in America this year and next year
and yeah, it's very interesting what you're saying because that's something that's be-
coming another kind of conflict in my head, the conflict between the kind of interesting
web-sized thumbnails versus the huge images that you want blow up and print very
large and put in galleries and have images that are more kind of an interesting experi-
ence at a large size and because I'm becoming more and more involved with galleries
and I want to basically be able to make my print much bigger, about kind of 83 x 125
cm, and in order to do that, with the current camera that I have, I've got to be very care-
ful to produce an image stock as being carefully lit and also having had too much post-
processing done to it.

So, with my most recent images, which you can see on Flickr or website, I have gone
through different methods to be able to achieve that and there is definitely when I'm
posting a picture a conflict between no, I want to crop it, I want to make this brighter, I
want to do this, but I'm aware that's going to ruin the image. By cropping, obviously
you're literally chopping away the quality of the image, so you can make it look really
snazzy at thumbnail size but when it comes to printing the image, this probably can
have areas of bad resolution when you print it or even when you just view it. So yeah,
I've kind of got into that problem stage where I'm starting to upload images that are
maybe not so attractive at thumbnail size or just less, kind of less over the top in terms
of kind of impactful composition.

Frederick: Yeah. So, are you finding that you have to make the choice now when
you're creating one of these, that is this going to go to print or am I just going to show
this online and you're saying that affects your overall decision making when you're cre-
ating a piece?

Natalie: Kind of everything, yeah really and when I'm thinking about creating an image
and also when I'm processing it, as I say, is only in the last, maybe five or six images
that are being posted to Flickr and my website that I have started to actively think about
this and sometimes, there's a case of cropping the image in one way for the web but
keeping the whole thing, whole image ready to print if it were to be used in a show. So,
actually having two versions of the same image but for example, my recent image that
I've just put on Flickr today is an image that I'm trying to kind of keep at its full dimen-
sions to both the web and print and it's not the dullest picture but it's not the most im-
pactful composition out of the images on my Flickr stream but I find that because of the
network that I've got on Flickr, because there's a lot of people who invited me as a con-
tact in the three years, last three years, there's still a good chance of people coming
along and seeing the work and commenting. So, the views and the comments aren't
necessarily suffering but I suppose I'm kind of diluting it a little bit by going down the
other avenue which is pay attention to the way a picture will print and it is a big problem
and I know a lot of the other people on Flickr are having the same problem and I have
been kind of sharing with them my own thoughts on the issue and they've been sharing
their own kind of different process in how to make the compromise.

Frederick: Yeah. So, going down that path a little bit and just talking about how the
work is created. I'm looking at, I'm still enthralled with your work and I'm still going
through images as we're talking here and what strikes me is your amazing command of
Photoshop and how you can wheel it to do whatever - it looks like whatever you wanted
to do and of course mixing that with the photography skills, can you talk a little bit about
what your compositing process is and how you're putting these works together?

Natalie: Yeah. When I present all my work on actual events and shows, I find it really
appropriate to talk about my work in terms of three categories because people invaria-
bly ask me how long I spend on my images and well, I said I might spend up to five
hours per scene, one image, I might spend 10 minutes on another. So, I don't want
them to be misled and to think that Photoshop is my world, full stop. So, these three
categories are - basically the first one might be just images that have literally had a
tweak of work in Photoshop that are being composed completely in your camera. Well,
I like to think of - kind of prove that I can take a good picture in the camera and not nec-
essarily have to spend a lot of time in the post-production and the second group would
be images that are kind of I had a little bit more work done to them but compositionally,
they're not kind of far from the original and it may have had some kind of layering work
in them to add some kind of dramatic effect but the third category is I think the category
of images that I enjoy the most or maybe that I initially got into photography because of
and those are the composites, the images that I've had quite a high level of compositing
as in layering done to them and they look very different from the original shots and
they've mostly involved a series of shots to achieve a final illusion and that would in-
clude the clone images that created and also the trick images where I might be falling or
flying and a lot of other kind of fantasy composites that are on my stream as well.

Frederick: So, I'm looking at one of them now and it looks like you're a spider-woman
and you're climbing a wall. Take me through that one. What was your process for build-
ing that shot?
Natalie: Well, that's an example of an image that takes a series of shots to put together.
So, on one level is a more of a complex exercise. It's not just one shot but it's a few of
them that are being taken with particular thought and care in order to composite them
and create this illusion that I'm climbing up the wall, but on another level, it's one of the
most simplest kind of composites that I have done, in that I didn't use any particular aids
to help me and on some of my trick images, I've used tables and chairs and even assis-
tance of my boyfriend, but in this one I let you read, I just did a clever, and they're quite
quick as well, series of shots by fixing the camera on the tripod in the fixed position so it
doesn't move and taking a blank picture of the wall without me in it and then just solitary
pointing one leg and then the other leg and then took the position of the head and then
taking all these, I think, four shots in total into Photoshop and just kind of cleverly putting
them together but quite a quick one and I think it was one of my, I believe my first or
second attempt at doing what I call a trick or whatever, the imitation of an image but it's
very easy, I put together and then just cropped to kind of give the final things and then
some different kind of presence.

Frederick: Yeah. It's a brilliant shot and just a couple more questions. I'm looking at
the shot of - I think this is the shot that appeared on the cover of American Photo. Can
you talk a little bit about this shot?

Natalie: Is that the one with me on the couch?

Frederick: That is the one with you on the couch. Yeah with the pop art on the wall, the
Lichtenstein portrait on the wall.

Natalie: Yeah. That's quite an old one really. I don't really know kind of what exactly I
was doing with that picture and...

Frederick: That's fair.

Natalie: Well, I used to use a lot of outdoor locations in my other pictures but when I
moved into my new flat, I was tempted to using that more as lived in a kind of more ur-
ban area. So, that was kind of one example of me using my tidy - it was tidy on that day
- flat to shoot some kind of interesting self-portrait and on my blog actually, I did a lot of
posts about it, about this kind of four different inspirations that went into the image, but
they were inspirations I kind of identified after I've taken the image and they were four
different people from Flickr, Rebekka, Merkley, Celia, and I couldn't remember the other
one, but yeah and Merkley is kind of renowned for his use of women on couches and
Rebekka, there was an image of her in a bikini kind of standing in this Icelandic land-
scape and Celia was in the midst of her table with a piece of fruit. So, I kind of put all
these images into kind of the mixing pot and produced this image, one kind of lying on
the couch and it was kind of interesting it isn't a composite at all. It's just literally a shot
that someone has tried out on camera but with the cleaning up in Photoshop and I was
kind of interested by the way that my body came out in the image. It looked very kind of
cartoon-liked and it looked like it was drawing parallel with the Lichtenstein on the wall.
So yeah, kind of like a kind of supine super hero kind of look to it which was kind of un-
intentional but maybe subconsciously intentional and at least the fruit as well just there's
a kind of - I think maybe the three layers in the image is what kind of drew me into it af-
terwards and made me want to share it with other people.

Frederick: Now, is this image a composite or is it just a straight shot?

Natalie: Just a straight shot.

Frederick: Got you. So, Natalie, what's next for you? You've conquered the world al-
ready, what are you going to do next?

Natalie: I'm kind of a bit confused but also excited because I find that - as you were
saying, this idea of labeling, I'm not sure really what label to give myself and whether I
need to give myself a label and whether I should just keep - some people tell me to just
keep doing what I'm doing and other people are telling me how to be an art photogra-
pher, other people are telling me how to be a commercial photographer, and I don't
really know what I am and where I'm going and I find that this is the case of a lot of peo-
ple I've seen used the web in the similar way as me, in that they might have a predomi-
nant kind of role, they might be an art photographer or a fashion photographer or a por-
trait photographer predominantly and then they might have a smothering of all other
kinds of things kind of entering their lives, especially through sharing their stuff on the
web has kind of led to all kinds of different things and I would probably call myself pre-
dominantly an art photographer but also I've done commercial work and I've done por-
traits of other people. So again, it's that mix and that blend always of the things going
on and I think the main thing for me is pursuing, just creating images and exhibiting
them and hopefully continuing to sell them as prints but at the same time, I'm really in-
terested in getting involved with taking pictures for other people's commercial purposes
and taking pictures of people, generally just opening my mind of the subject and yeah, I
just - and also kind of being able to meet you as well. I'm really interested in doing
something with film. Recently, I collaborated with a scope there which was very inter-
esting and producing a kind of photograph that was projected onto a 3D cast of myself
which was thinking outside the box a little bit, outside of the 2D. That was really inter-
esting.

So, I think just keeping an open mind and also keeping the bills paid as well in whatever
way I can and it's how I want to continue and I think generally just doing exciting things
and remaining true to myself as well and just I'm producing work that I find personally
interesting if they're not the most important thing for me.

Frederick: Yeah. Well, it's look like you just got raw energy and raw talent, you could
pretty much point it in any direction and be successful, it looks like, from the looks of
those...

Natalie: I hope so.
Frederick: So, where can people find more info on you and where do you generally di-
rect people if they've heard about you and they want to find out more?

Natalie: Well, maybe my website which is msaniela.com and I also have a blog on
there which will kind of keep you updated with anything that I'm doing or any kind of
thoughts and also essays that I write once in a while if you are really bored and want to
read those but also, I found that using Facebook is being very useful to keep updates
going to people that may have kind of come across my work in different places. And so,
I keep doing it on Facebook as well. My page, if you basically search Ms. Aniela, the
page comes up. I'm also on Flickr as well, which is - well, I made myself a bit of a prob-
lem by giving myself a URL which has my surname in, so it's flickr.com/photos/ndybisz,
but if you search Ms. Aniela on Flickr, then you can find my work on there and that's
where I usually post my new work.

Frederick: Got you. And what about Twitter?

Natalie: I am on Twitter. I've not got fully into it but I am on there, so you can just
search Ms. Aniela and I'm on there as well and I'll sometimes post kind of links to blog
updates or Facebook update. So generally, it's a whole kind of network of stuff going on
with these social networking sites which is easy to kind of drop in on and leave a com-
ment or if you have any questions, you can just email me or whatever and I also have
many lists, so if you did well enjoy it often, just a quick email on that and you're on there.
So yeah, that's usefulness of the internet and keeping people updated. I'm exhibiting in
Miami actually this year and also at the Buenos Aires Photo Fair. So, updates for both
of those things will be on my site as well. So, it's really exciting. It's my first exhibition
in America.

Frederick: Oh wow, cool. I've been looking for a reason to get to Miami. Maybe this is
it. Well very good.

Natalie: Yeah. Definitely.

Frederick: Very good. Natalie, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to
chat with me. This has been...

Natalie: Thank you very much, Frederick.

Frederick: It's been inspirational and you're going to mess up the rest of my day again
because I'm still in your photos here. So, I would suggest to This Week in Photography
audience, if you haven't done so during this interview or if you haven't done so yet, defi-
nitely head over to Natalie's Flickr stream. You'll find the links to all of the things that
she mentioned in our show notes on twiplog.com or just Google her and you can find
out everything you need to know and she's easily findable on many social networks.
So, Natalie, thanks again and have a great day.

Natalie: Thank you very much and yourself.

				
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