; President Jacob Zuma's SONA Interview
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President Jacob Zuma's SONA Interview


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									President Jacob Zuma’s SONA Interview

Interviewer: Good evening and welcome to this special broadcast brought to you by
SABC News. We‟re speaking to President Jacob Zuma, following his State of the
Nation Address on Thursday. Mr President good evening and thank you very much
for allowing us to speak to you.

President Jacob Zuma: Good evening and thank you very much for the opportunity.

Interviewer: Well, compared to last year‟s lukewarm response, I think it was an
overwhelmingly positive response that you got for your speech. Were you surprised?

President Jacob Zuma: No, I was not surprised. I was not surprised because I think
that we tried to look at the situation of the country and really tried to address the
challenges that we are facing. I think any reasonable South African would certainly
see that we have tried our best. I don‟t think I was surprised. I‟m not sure if there was
somebody else, as they have said really.

Interviewer: Take us through what was going on in your mind as you were preparing
to make that speech.

President Jacob Zuma: Well, we had started a way back firstly to say what are the
challenges that face us today – you would of course recall that when we were
campaigning, when we were concluding our campaign we prioritised five issues, very
clearly wanting to say what are the things that we need to tackle, which are really
challenges before us and we‟ve been working on these challenges so that we‟re not
working on any other thing. Very specific! And as we were preparing having
meetings, it was clear that ever since we started three of the five priorities had been
cracked. We‟re clear on education, we‟re clear on what we want to do. We have a ten-
point plan which we are busy implementing. On health also we are busy
implementing that one. On crime, we are also busy implementing. I think everybody
has accepted the reality that crime has gone down. The issue of rural development is
an issue that we‟re working very hard on. There‟s a lot of the work down the road that
has been done. The fifth one which is job creation, is the one that has been standing
and therefore difficult to deal with, so what was going on in our minds as we worked
on this one was the question to answer – how do we crack this one? Because much as
it looks like one of the huge challenges but also, its not like the kind of challenge that
can be faced by one sector. It‟s a challenge that needs all of us to participate. Its to
some degree a national challenge that needs all of us. It needs the government, it
needs business, it needs workers on the other hand, particularly organised workers in
the union, it needs society. There are many, many things that we would have looked at
so this was what going on in our minds. How then do we crack it really? And how do
we make everybody firstly to accept that this is a challenge and therefore to accept the
reality that we all have to work together whilst dealing with it, because if we‟re
dealing with that issue, just like in education, we have dealt with a number of other
issues if we succeed to put the workers or those who are unemployed to employment,
because then you are saying citizens who have not been able to put the bread on the
table are now in a position to do so and therefore we‟re dealing with the changing of
the quality of life.

Interviewer: Mr President, we are going to get into a little bit of detail around that –
so would you then say that dealing with jobs was perhaps the single most important
message or issue you wanted to deal with in your speech?

President Jacob Zuma: Absolutely! Critically that was the issue, that‟s an issue
among others that loomed larger than others. There are other issues but that one has
been looming large as we were preparing for the SONA.

Interviewer: Now, analysts, pundits, political parties obviously have given various
interpretations to the rest of the things that you said. What do you think of the
reactions that you‟ve seen so far?

President Jacob Zuma: I don‟t think the reactions are surprising to me. If you take
opposition parties, I think in my view they have responded as I expected, firstly to say
yes, there is something that is being said here but they must find something. There
must be a „but‟ you know, always. So I expected that. So its not surprising. What
though I wonder is going to be expected from the opposition parties in particular, is
how utilising Parliament, we who are in Parliament, what is it we are going to do to
address this issue that faces our nation – this job creation. Perhaps in the process of
dealing with the issues people are going to be more realistic and I think some
opposition parties really said this is the right thing. Perhaps what they said are the fall-
shorts here and there. What I saw as a critical point that they were making, their point
of view when they said „but it falls short of this‟, they said it fell short of the details.
Now of course I made the point as I was presenting that details on a number of
aspects are going to come when departments begin to discuss their detailed plans in
terms of dealing with their budgets. So I wouldn‟t have been able to go into all of the
details otherwise I would be doing the work of the departments.

Interviewer: Would you be so bold as to say that after your speech, you feel that you
have your comrades, your opposition parties, your business, organised labour, all the
constituencies, would you say that from what they would have read from your speech
they have confidence in your ability to steer this country in the right direction,
confidence in the future under your leadership?

President Jacob Zuma: Well, I wouldn‟t be much of a judge for myself, but I think
from the reactions I would say generally people felt the country is going in the right
direction. Generally I think they realise government has the right approach. It has a
plan. We are doing something on the challenges and that‟s what is needed in any
country. And therefore those who will play a part to assist, they are ready to do so. I
would also imagine that all of them should be able to have the country move forward.
There is no-one who wants to be an opposition in a country that is going down the
drain. I think everyone will participate and show that we move forward to make South
Africa really a strong country, a country with prosperity.

Interviewer: 2011 has been declared The Year of Job Creation. When we come back
we‟ll get into the detail of that.


Interviewer: Mr President, R9 billion to finance job creation. In addition to that R10
billion will be made available to the IDC also for job creation and you also announced
that there‟s R20 billion in tax breaks and allowances that will be made available. Now
we know that your ministers are going to get into the detail as you said – can you give
us a sense firstly of how the R9 billion is going to be dispersed?

President Jacob Zuma: Well, I can‟t get into the details, otherwise really I will be
taking the work of the officials, of the ministers, of everybody else. I‟m sure you
know that. The fact of the matter is that we are saying here is concrete money that
must go to any plan that we make. You will appreciate that I even said we are going
to put together all the small financial institutions that have been dealing for example
with the activities, economic activities, helping small business etc, we said we‟re
going to put them together, so we are changing the way we have been doing things
even at that level. But I wouldn‟t get into those kinds of details. The fact of the matter
is that we need to change the manner in which we have been doing things. We need to
consolidate what we have been doing at that level. We are giving also the money to
the IDC so that those who are dealing with it, there is money to deal with it. You
know that people at times will say I‟ve gone to the IDC, I‟ve got no money etc but
we‟ve got to plan things in a particular way. Everybody as I said, from departments to
those institutions, everybody must think jobs, jobs, jobs. What is it that we‟re going to
do to create jobs? So its not just give money for the sake of perhaps helping this
particular company to grow. Its, if we give this company, what is it going to do to
create jobs. That‟s the job that departments and institutions must work on in the
greatest details. As I indicated for an example, yesterday, even government, we are
not going to allow vacancies. There‟s quite a big percentage of vacancies that are not
filled. That must be filled and I‟ve said the performance monitoring and evaluation is
going to look at what is happening, so its not going to be like the usual – there‟s
money out there, see what to do. There‟s going to be rigorous monitoring to what is
being done by all of us towards creating jobs, particularly because we are saying
here‟s the money. In relation to business we are saying here is an opportunity wherein
if you come in to invest, we‟ll so something about your tax. In other words, an
incentive to encourage them to come. If you are adjusting your company or whatever,
or creating new opportunities this is what you‟re going to get as a benefit so we are in
other words encouraging everyone including business, to say do something. Usually, I
mean people who say government creates no jobs it is the private sector – I think it is
both. It takes two to tango. We create an environment. That mainly is our task but we
have gone further than that, to say here is money, institutions that work with
government, we have given money that we will come to the party. We are saying to
do the business is not inviting them to come, we are saying if you come under these
conditions, you‟ll certainly benefit something. So it‟s a win-win situation.

Interviewer: Lets then take the R20 billion in tax breaks and allowances Mr
President. To qualify a company has to have or be willing or able to invest something
like R200 million. Wouldn‟t that discriminate against small business?

President Jacob Zuma: No, small business in a sense is covered from the other
money that we are giving, because they will go to the IDC for example as a small
business who cannot meet those kinds of conditions. There‟s no problem with that. Its
not discrimination. We need investment and those who have got money they must put
in and those who can‟t reach that point, they would invest with the normal conditions
that are there so its very targeted to those who can be in a better position to present
themselves in terms of investment so its not discrimination at all.

Interviewer: So in essence, the R20 billion going to IDC is what will service
hopefully your small businesses whereas the tax breaks and allowances are in a sense
meant for big business.

President Jacob Zuma: That‟s correct. That‟s absolutely correct.

Interviewer: Now lets get to the social part, business and labour – what exactly are
you expecting them to do?

President Jacob Zuma: I think firstly we expect that what we have put before
everybody else, we agree that this is the way to go. So how then do you deal with it in
practice I think is a question of all of us understanding where we are, that at the
moment we are dealing with the jobs. We‟ll have further discussions with them. How
do we look at the creation of jobs? How do we create an environment that allows that
to happen? There are many other issues. For example, we have raised the issue in the
last SONA, not this one, about a lot of young people who qualify at the university,
who are skilled in other words, because we can‟t complain about the skills, when
there‟s skills in abundance sitting which do not have an experience. How do we
address that issue? This we‟ll discuss with the social partners because how do you
allow skilled people in to swell the ranks of the unemployed when in fact you could
find a way to deal with it. Those are issues we‟re going to deal with because when we
raise the issues there are different views. We‟re going to engage, because we are
going to say here‟s a skill. Because of the fact that companies they want to have
somebody who is going to produce today and if you were employed, you have skills
but you don‟t have the experience, sorry! What do you do with that fellow? You can‟t
take that person as [Xhosa]. How do we turn that skill into an experience? That‟s what
we‟re going to be dealing with, with our social partners, among other things.

Interviewer: Now you made a good example I think with respect to business. From
labour, what for instance are the sorts of things that you think you may be able to raise
with them?

President Jacob Zuma: No, as I‟m saying I don‟t think we could raise more than
what I‟m saying except if we are looking at their own investments which they have,
they may be wanting to play a role but this is a kind of example I was making with
them, that if there are issues we‟ve got to deal with them, a very concrete one in my
view is one I‟ve just mentioned wherein we‟ve got skilled labour but no experience.
What do we do with it? How do we make it move? How do we change it instead of
allowing huge numbers that come out every year as kids qualify, you are adding
numbers to the unemployed. What do we do? It‟s a challenge we must deal with. We
can‟t just live with it and say because they are not skilled, fine, let them join the ranks.
As a country, between us and labour, because it does have views, how then do we
tackle the issue? Those are the matters we‟re going to deal with.

Interviewer: Now, you‟ve also thrown in the role of government departments as well
as state-owned enterprises, that they too are going to play a major role in this job
creation initiative for this year. Now, to someone who asks, but state-owned
enterprises especially are having their own challenges. Some of them don‟t even have
CEO‟s at the moment, if you look at organisations like Transnet. Are they ready? Do
you believe that the public sector including state-owned enterprises actually have the
capacity to play the significant role you are envisaging for them?
President Jacob Zuma: Well, that is what we‟re addressing. You will know that not
a long time ago, we must adjustments and changes in government precisely because
we are saying we need to prepare. We can‟t do things as we have been doing all the
time. They are therefore being geared to have that capacity. They are working on that
right now because they must have that capacity. They must be able for example to do
what they used to do before – to train people, to create opportunities. Your question of
the challenges that they‟ve been having, we are dealing with those challenges. Its no
longer a kind of a problem that we don‟t know what to do. There are plans to deal
with those problems provided they‟ve got sufficient capacity to be able to deal with
those matters. Everything that we need to do, including departments, everything that
we believe has a role to play, we are going to do something about it. That‟s why I
emphasised from the beginning that we are going to be monitoring very closely
everything, how is it working, is it because a department has no capacity that it can‟t
do x, y, z? We address that question. So there is nothing that we are going to leave to
chance. We are going to be able to deal with everything therefore Public Enterprises
are going to be looked at very vigorously so that they are able to play a role, given
their positions and their capacity and the way they‟ve been doing things in the past,
we believe they‟ve got a lot to do to ensure that we are able to implement our plan.

Interviewer: We are going to take another quick commercial break. When we come
back we look at what is the state of the country‟s municipalities.


Interviewer: Welcome back. We‟re speaking to President Jacob Zuma following his
State of the Nation Address. Mr President, there seemed to be not the same kind of
focus on the state of local government that you gave to for example, jobs. Was there a
reason for that?

President Jacob Zuma: Well, we did talk about it but we did not give the same
prominence as we did with the jobs. I think the issue with the jobs is a critical issue. I
think the question of local government is now a routine that people know. They come
in, we need to participate. The critical point that we were making is that even local
government, those who come in, they must know this is a task that faces the nation
today. So we were in a sense focusing on this one. That is why we did not go into
details insofar as the local government elections but the question of jobs to us is
uppermost at this point in time. But we did talk about the local government, not at the
same detail as we did with the other issues.

Interviewer: Mr President, I‟m saying this because you say, to quote you “people‟s
experience of local government is not a pleasant one”.

President Jacob Zuma: Absolutely!

Interviewer: And when you go on to talk about some of the good things or some of
the people who are working, you seem to acknowledge that its only some, but not
even the majority. Now, in a country that has seen something like, I think at last count
we counted 117 protests in South Africa over the past year which is a record, isn‟t that
cause for concern?

President Jacob Zuma: Absolutely! That‟s precisely why we said some are working,
some are not working. There are many factors. I think some of the factors are, some
municipalities don‟t have the revenue base so they can‟t do anything, even if you
wanted them to do something. Anything that comes to them is to keep them going. Its
an issue, it‟s a challenge that we‟ve got to deal with. We can‟t therefore expect those
to deliver, to do anything beyond what they‟re doing and that‟s why they‟re standing
in one place and those things that are deteriorating, they are deteriorating. We need to
look at this as a country in a focused fashion. And there are not just few who don‟t
have the revenue base. We have got to look at ourselves. In fact, should we keep these
municipalities at that level for ever? Why? If they cannot do more should we be re-
looking at whether we have them or we unbundled them or we dovetail them with
others. It‟s a challenge that faces the country. So even if you wanted them to perform
better, you can‟t. But there has been also, a very large degree of corruption that people
have been talking about or councillors at times were not working. But it does not say
that the majority, the ones who are not working. I think the ones who are working
very well, are in the majority. Some are not. But if you take the municipalities that I
am talking about which are quite huge, you could not therefore say these are the best
performing, so that kind of statement does not condemn everybody. It just says there
are difficulties here which we need to come back and look at. Some people who
complain about councillors have different reasons. Some reasons in fact that caused
some of the protests were not necessarily delivery. They were actually political.
People were using the municipalities to fight political battles. So it‟s a kind of a mixed
bag. You can‟t just say these are…..24 min 46 sec

Interviewer: Welcome to this Special Broadcasting brought to you by SABC News,
We are speaking to President Jacob Zuma following his State of the Nation Address
on Thursday, Mr President good evening and thank you very much for allowing us to
speak to you

President Jacob Zuma: I think the ones that are working very well are the majority,
some are not but if you take municipalism that I am talking about which are quite
huge, you could not say this are the best performing, so that kind of statement it does
not condemn everybody, it just says there are difficulties here which we need to come
back and look at, some people complain about councillors, there are different reasons,
some reasons in fact that cause some of the protests were not necessarily delivering,
were actually political, people were using a municipalities to fight political battles, so
it is a kind of a mix bag, you can't say these are straight forward issues, I think it is a
matter of got to come back and look at, as you know from the ANC point of view for
an example as organization, we have said that because people are saying you gave us
a councillor that we don‟t like, we have a sense that may created a space for
communities to take to take some active part by saying whilst we are in the process of
nominating, we don‟t just say this is a one councillor, we give more names to say the
community chose amongst these, which one do you think is a correct councillor, is
part of trying to address the concerns that people have been raising, so there are many
things in the municipalities or local government that are challenges that we need to
deal with and I thin the moment is in fact coming as we go to the elections

Interviewer: So what do you say Mr President to someone who says if you look at a
municipality like JHB, it is probably the richest municipality in the country, that is
where the skills are in Gauteng, is got the money and is got the people in other words
the municipal manager there and other officials are probably amongst the highest paid
officials in that sphere of government, how then does one explain things like problems
with the billing system?

President Jacob Zuma: That is a problem of the system, how people are working, it
is a challenge that faces any company, that faces any kind of sphere of government
that Gauteng has to wake up and deal with the issues, why there is a billing problem,
now I don‟t know what is the cause of it, but that is a different problem, it is not lack
of capacity, it is not the lack of resources, it is a different problem all together which
needs to be tackled differently and we deal with it as it where, I mean the manner in
which for an example, the issue has been raised, the manner in which the response is
being given, that tells you there is an area that need to deal with then

Interviewer: Now if we then move on Mr President and talk about some of the things
in fact some of the criticisms leaving aside some of the things that are being said by
people, analysts and other people who maybe playing politics, you look at the
SALGA report, you look at the reports of the auditor general, they speak to something
that is going very wrong within the municipalities, but things that are within the
abilities of the managers and the councillors and everybody, in other words these are
things that can actually be rectified in many incidences, people just don‟t do their jobs

President Jacob Zuma: Absolutely true, absolutely true, that is precisely the reason
why when I being talking about performance monitoring and the evaluation, I've said
it is not going to be staying only at the national, it is going to deal with the provincial
as well as municipalities, one of the things that we are going to be doing is to
strengthen that department, to capacitate it in such away that we are going to deal with
those issues, I don‟t think it will be acceptable that people just relax, when they are
actually carrying out the tasks for the citizens, for the country and we have got the
kinds of the things where those reports indicate negligence, indicate people not doing
that things properly, that is when then we've got to come in and ensure that people do
things properly, one of the issues is to actually employ people who must be qualifying
for the jobs because in some instances, people just don‟t know what to do, but they
are there in their positions, so that is an issue we are going to be dealing with down
the line, so that we have people who are in the jobs, who are supposed to be there
because they qualified for those jobs, there are other jobs that need no qualifications,
but those need qualifications, you need to be very meticulous in terms of employing
the right people for the right positions

Interviewer: Mr President it is an election year, are you not worried some of these
things will come back to haunt us again and they may just there maybe people who
may want to use the opportunity of what the elections are presenting to actually bring
back all the things floors that you say can be dealt with, some are not be dealt with?

President Jacob Zuma: Well that is part of life, that is part of life, that is part of
politics, that is part of governance, we have got to deal with things properly so that we
do not open up the loopholes for people to take advantage of, that is precisely the
point I am making, because people are not going to stop taking those advantages, in
our situation those people are they ready to do so, supposing if they will be given a
chance, will they be able to do so, I am not sure, I don‟t think there are people who
could do better that what we are doing, I doubt that, South Africa itself is fairly a new
country, we are just sixteen years, I think it will be expecting too much, that within
sixteen years of democracy we have perfected everything, I think the learning curves
are still there, because government is not a simple matter, it is a complex matter, but I
think the fact that, we are able to identify the problem, the shortcomings and identify
the remedies, we are moving very well, we are making a lot of progress, the
correcting things as we go forward, I don‟t think we could do better that what we are

Interviewer: We are going to take another quick commercial break and when we
come back we talk about education, health and social welfare


Interviewer: Here you said this year's focus will be on teachers, text books and time,
one politician is very unhappy, the leader of the Democratic Alliance said yesterday
that you actually stole her idea

President Jacob Zuma: Well I don‟t know where I stole her ideas, but the reality is
that we are talking about what we have been talking all the time, they are saying
education is crucial for the nation, no nation that is not paying attention to education
can succeed, it is impossible, so we have made the right choice in terms of making
education as the apex of our priorities, we went further to divide the department
which was very huge and the tendency at the time was that the concentration was
more on the higher level rather than the basic and therefore created a possibility that
we pay sufficient attention to both, I think we are as I said we got ten point plan at the
level of basic education and I think we are doing the right things and I think our
approach to this question has actually made the country to move with the flow that is
why the matric results begin to be better and the enthusiasm from the students I think
after a long time for the first time that even higher education is in difficulties because
of the numbers that are coming, that is important that we deal with that, I think
education is crucial and we are therefore say if we are to succeed we've got to deal
with education at the formative stage, at the foundation and that is why we are saying
the teachers therefore become important, one of the teachers I suspected I didn't ask
because one lady that I walked to in some house in Durban said to me you have
invited us to talk, I said I did, she said can you look after teachers, because the
teachers are important to create the environment so that teaching is indeed effective,
that is what we are talking about, so we said the teachers must do their jobs
historically, teachers and education were pivotal point, very vital, whatever as you do
teachers were important, so we are saying T number one is for Teachers and we are
saying the Text Books must reach the children at the right Time and each child must
have a text book, because crucial for the teaching to continue, they must have the
material in their hands and T number three is Time, Time is crucial, that quality time
that is given at school must be used, must be maximized, that is what we are talking
about, I don‟t know other parties of the Ts what are they talking about, but I am
talking about the teacher must be at school on time teaching enough hours, hours that
are stipulated by the law and the child must have the book and therefore the time is
crucial, so we are saying whatever we do, if we fail that, there are many other things
that we need to be looked at, how do we prepare the kids in terms of what kind of
subjects do they take to prepare themselves for the higher level, so that we don‟t get
children studying anything up to a point when they get to University they don‟t
actually know what they are coming to do, they are just going to take what they are
given, in other words we must begin to orientate guide, help to check whether the kids
will be good in that kind of field or in that kind of field, so there is a lot that we need
to do to ensure that education is streamline to a point that we are able to succeed

Interviewer: You said something along similar lines in the 2010 State of the Nation
Address, you made a very bolt statement and in the same year we had one of the
biggest strikes that this country has ever seen certainly by teachers, do you think that
teachers listened or heeded your call last year and how confident are you that they
will listen to you now?

President Jacob Zuma: I think teachers did listen, no doubt about it, I interact with
teachers, I interact with unions, I think the issue that causes the strike was a different
issue, cause it was the issue of salaries, it is an issue I think between government,
public sector unions as well as government, they must discuss very carefully, I would
want to believe that the last year strike must have been a lesson how do we go
forward, I am sure things were taken to some very extreme at that time, I hope it will
not get to that level which it got to last time, but critical to this is the understanding,
the commitment by everybody, because not a single one said education was not
important, everybody was saying even the workers, precisely because we say
education is important, create the necessary conditions for the teachers, I think we
need to have a kind of an agreement, how then do we deal with that issue because we
all agreed that it is important and I must say to me the fact that when we had the
biggest strike but the results have actually improved indicate the commitment that the
teachers have, the community has, everybody have because you could not, everybody
was saying it is going to be bad, I think the teachers when they came back they give it
all, they even I think worked extra hours that is what we need about education as a
challenge for the nation

Interviewer: Of course that is given rise to another problem which we alluded about
earlier that is universities did not being able to, I mean Institute of Higher Learning
not being able to absorb the numbers of students who wants to study, how are we
going to deal with that one?

President Jacob Zuma: Well that is the matter, I have raised it with the minister, that
is a matter we have to deal with, because I don‟t think it is accurate to say look we
now have no space, you can't deny children education, we need to be innovative, we
need to say what do we do, I mean under the circumstances if it means hiring other
buildings that necessarily could be found so that the pupil are at school, it also means
challenge of the lecturers, do we have sufficient lecturers, that is I think to me this
particularly wave, this particular wave begin to expose, it means we need to
understand that we need to increase the volume of the lecturers as well as the space,
you know that we have been talking for an example about two provinces that have got
no universities, of course we have taken a decision to establish the universities, but
that indicates problem, because we should have sufficient space to take our citizens,
we should do that because we know the growth of our population, we should be
knowing that therefore what is a demand in so far as the space for tertiary institutions
and therefore the space for people to come in, that should be part of our automatic
planning, I that is what we are going to look at as we move forward

Interviewer: Lets move quickly Mr President to the issue of social welfare, you made
a point yesterday that we are developmental and not a welfare state, and then you
went on to say we now need to link what we giving people who are under privilege
conditions to economic activity, now can you just expand on what you mean exactly
by the kinds of economic activities that people can engage, that is people who are
recipients of government assistance program can actually engage in the economic

President Jacob Zuma: Well, firstly the point that we are a developmental state, we
are not welfare state, it is an important point for the country to bear in mind, in other
words, ones we have expanded the issue of the age for an example the age limit in
terms of the grants etc, which is important because we are dealing with the crisis of
poverty that we got to deal with, but it cannot be a permanent feature, as a country we
got to plan, what do we do to reduce those numbers, one of the critical point is how
we are dealing with education for an example of the poor kids, the fact that we are
introducing free education is one way of tackling that issue so that these kids would
otherwise, would have not had an opportunity to go to school, will therefore remain as
kids that could not be productive in any other words, are going to be empowered and
therefore reduce the numbers from those who would otherwise just be sitting as one
area with regard to education, but we are also saying whatever we are doing what can
we do to create activities to those who are poor so that they begin to do something, in
other words to focus to those poor ones, in other words to say what can they do as
they could generate some income that they could live on their own to assist them to do
so, because it is better to assist that person with something to stand on her own or his
own, rather than keep giving that person forever, that is what we are looking at, I have
not went to details about that, but it will happen because the situations are different, in
some areas, in the rural areas we may have different things to do to empower the
community to be able to do something, what I am looking at is to reach a point where
only the aged and the disabled would actually be deserving to receive this
permanently, but those who have the bodies, able bodies to work they must do so,
there is a particular program that I have started of the community program in my own
village, the point I made was that in no way we can fail to be imaginative and with
that program is going on, and I say this business of saying people who are in the rural
areas, unskilled , they've got no skills at all, I said they have got skills of looking after
cattle, I said why don't we produce dairy farming, so that we bring cattle for them,
which is a capital kind of demand so that they are able to look after cattle because that
is a skill they have, they are able to milk, get the milk, put it in the market so that they
are able to earn something, I believe there are many other things we can do, if they are
succeeding to do so and I have said so you could even begin to build a situation where
they look after cattle, meat cattle so that they will be able to supply abattoirs, so there
are many things we can do, I believe it, even to the poorest of the poor to empower
them so that they are economically active

Interviewer: Mr President, we are going to take the last commercial break and when
we come back we look at South Africa's place in the world, so do go away


Presenter: Doing some jokes with the president

Interviewer: Welcome back to this interview with president Jacob Zuma, Mr
President we are taking up our seat in the United Nations Security Council, we also
looking at we now becoming part of BRIC, what would you say I mean for the
ordinary South African what would you say are the benefits of us playing on the big
international stage?

President Jacob Zuma: Well firstly if we take into account, if you take first the UN,
the UN is the biggest organization of every other country, but it has other
organizations that relate to it, it does have this Security Council which then places
countries a little bit about general countries where in final, actual final decisions are
taken, critical decisions, for a country to get there it is not a small matter, for us to
come back in a short space of time, I think it firstly indicate the confidence that the
world has on ANC, sorry on the country, South Africa, you are looking at a situation
where in people feel if South Africa is a member of the Security Council, its voice, it
is very-very important, important from the point of view that South Africa is one of
the countries that exercises, a very clear constitutional democracy and ever since 1994
we have been very consistent in raising issues without buying the favour of anyone,
that is what South Africa is all about, sticking to principles, speaking for the poor in
the world, speaking very loudly about the transformation of the institutions of the UN
and other international institutions, it is an important struggle that we are waging as
development country, secondly South Africa come from Africa, a continent that has
been left behind by the developments of the globe, which is now in the process of
developing one of the leading economic growing regions of the world and South
Africa is the biggest economy of the continent, therefore by us being there, you
represent, you represent an important region, so from those point of views, our being
there is crucial, South Africa's voice is respected, not because people love South
Africans, because it is a principle country, it raises issues that need to be raised
without fear of favour, that I think it is important and that is why even when we were
voted in we were voted with the biggest numbers, so it is important to be there, with
regard to BRIC, very important that we belong to BRIC, this is a small group of the
countries that are emerging economically, different from the old world, old countries,
if you look at Brazil, it is a different country, if you look at China, India as well as
Russia much as Russia is in Europe is almost like an emerging, given the fact that it is
now Russia, no longer the old Soviet Union, that group if you talk about huge
emerging economies, you cannot fail to count China, India, Brazil and Russia, critical,
this voice, this group is becoming very important, important in the firstly in the
context of South relations, two in the context of developing countries, but also in the
context of the changing economic equation in the world in no way any economist
today can say the old world is going to lead forever, what is critical is that the
emerging economies, by their share size are in fact a major factor today and for South
Africa to belong to that group again ads a lot of value that in the changing world, we
are in the top of the groupings that have a voice that must be listened to, but also
South Africa represent African region in that equation, if you look at it, if you look at
BRICS, before BRICS, it was Brazil, Latin America, it was India and China, Asia,
Russia and Europe, Africa was not there, so the coming in of South Africa complete
the puzzle and it is crucial because the world is changing and therefore South Africa
must be at the leadership of shaping how the world changes today, so it is absolutely
important that we are part of that grouping

Interviewer: Well in that role we are going to play as the voice of the continent
whether it is BRIC, whether it is the United Nations Mr President, we have to get
house in order, you did of course say yesterday that you will be monitoring the
situation in Zimbabwe, you also mention the events in Egypt and Tunisia and etc, but
last point perhaps, do you think that African leaders are very much aware of the
changes globally in other words it can no longer be business as usual and what would
you say are the lessons of those experiences for our own country

President Jacob Zuma: Well, I think Africa is aware that the world is changing

Interviewer: Leaders specifically and especially presidents?

President Jacob Zuma: Yes, leaders are aware at times in an informal discussions,
some leaders do say we need to put our houses in order and I think we have been
trying , the fact that today, coos are not tolerated in this continent, is a step forward,
there is no general today that just think I will conduct a coo and I will be part of the
AU, will seat nicely in the continent, not at all, they are trying to put their houses in
order in terms of introducing democratic practices in the continent, for an example we
are talking about many countries that are joining the Peer Review Mechanism, who
are saying here we are, look at us from the continental point of view, whether we are
doing things right, help us in each and every summit of the AU discuss the Peer
Review reports that are given by the different countries, I think that is an indication of
Africa realising where we are going, those countries that are not realizing that, they
are going to be left behind and I think some of the activities currently taking place in
the continent, I think again are a lesson, that we can no longer do things the old way,
we have to change, we've got to be part of the changing world and I think they wil l
ease awareness and there is a kind of a leadership that is actually say we can't do
things the old way including our interaction with Europe, we have begun to say it
cannot be business as usual, we've got to determine the agenda as well, we have got to
find a way that we will meet at equal levels, I think that is, to us very important, we
still have to do things and discuss things differently and to meet even the situation as I
said it is emerging of changing world, Africa has to take this position in a very solid

Interviewer: Mr President we have run out of time, thank you very much, well we
have come to the end of this Special Broadcast brought to you by SABC News, from
me Vuyo Mvoko and the rest of the crew, see you again next week, same time

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