09-15 doh hrg.txt - Notepad by liuqingyan


									                        09-15 doh hrg.txt

 1                         PUBLIC HEARING
 2                      ON DRAFT PERMIT FOR

 3                    HO HONUA BIOENERGY, LLC

 6                    (Docket No. 10-CA-PA-22)




13   Held at the Kalanianaole Elementary School Cafeteria,

14   27-330 Old Mamalahoa Highway, Papaikou, Hawaii,

15   commencing at 6:30 p.m., on Wednesday, the 15th of

16   September, 2010.


20        Andrew Tseu, Hearing Officer
21        William Cooper, Deputy Attorney General

22        Darin Lum, Department of Health


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                         09-15 doh hrg.txt

 1                           I N D E X

 3   Meeting opened by the hearing officer   Pg   4

 5   DARIN LUM                               Pg   6
 6   ISAAC FIESTA                            Pg   8

 7   RICHARD BAKER                           Pg 11
 8   ELMER GOROSPE                           Pg 13

 9   GEORGE MARTIN                           Pg 14

10   DON BRYAN                               Pg 15
11   GEORGE YOKOYAMA                         Pg 19

12   LESTER SETO                             Pg 20

13   BARBARA HANOG                           Pg 23

14   GARY FAAGAU                             Pg 24
15   MARCUS SPALLEK                          Pg 34

16   RAQUEL DOW                              Pg 40

17   MIKE PEARRING                           Pg 42

18   HANNAH DE MOTTA                         Pg 43
19   ROBERTA CARRIAGE-DE MOTTA               Pg 44

20   CATHERINE MARQUETTE                     Pg 47

21   KENDRA TIDWELL                          Pg 50
22   BRUCE MACDUCKSTON                       Pg 51

23   CLAUDIA ROHR                            Pg 53
24   ROBERT FERAZZI                          Pg 59
25   RICK MCQUAIN                            Pg 60

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                         09-15 doh hrg.txt

 1   (Index continued)
 2   GILBERT DE MOTTA                        Pg 61
 3   LORRAINE MENDOZA                        Pg 63















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                          09-15 doh hrg.txt

 1             THE HEARING OFFICER:     Good evening.    We're
 2   going to be starting the hearing right now.

 3             Good evening.    My name is Andrew Tseu, last
 4   name spelled T S E U.    I am the hearing officer.

 5             Today's date is September 15th, 2010.       Start
 6   time for this hearing is 6:30 p.m.       That is for docket
 7   number 10-CA-PA-22.    The location, Kalanianaole

 8   Elementary and Intermediate School Cafeteria, 27-330
 9   Old Mamalahoa Highway, Papaikou, Hawaii.

10             On August 13th, 2010, the public notice for

11   this hearing was published in the following newspapers:
12   The Star Advertiser, Hawaii Tribune Herald, and the

13   West Hawaii Today.

14             The public notice for this hearing will be

15   summarized as follows:
16             Notice for public hearing.       Notice of public

17   hearing on draft permit for Hu Honua Bioenergy, LLC

18   regulating the emissions of air pollutants, docket

19   number 10-CA-PA-22.
20             Date of public hearing is September 15th,

21   2010.   Place, Kalanianaole Elementary and Intermediate

22   School Cafeteria, 27-330 Old Mamalahoa Highway,
23   Papaikou, Hawaii.

24             Facility name is Hu Honua Bioenergy, LLC,
25   bioenergy facility.    Location is 28-283 Sugar Mill


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                        09-15 doh hrg.txt
 1   Road, Pepeekeo, Hawaii.

 2             The time is 6:30 p.m.
 3             Pursuant to HRS, Chapter 342B and the Hawaii
 4   Administrative Rules, Chapter 11-60.1, the Department

 5   of Health, State of Hawaii, hereby gives notice of
 6   public hearing that will be held to consider the
 7   following draft permit to be issued to Hu Honua

 8   Bioenergy, LLC, located at Pepeekeo on the island of

 9   Hawaii.
10             The draft permit is described as follows:
11             Covered source permit number 0724-01-C would

12   grant conditional approval for the construction and

13   operation of a bioenergy facility, which includes a 407
14   MMBTU/HR boiler.

15             Comments on the draft should address, but

16   need not be limited to, the conditions and the

17   facility's compliance with federal and state air

18   pollution laws, including the national and state
19   ambient air quality standards and HRS, Chapter 342B,

20   and HAR, Chapter 11-60.1.

21             DOH will make a final decision on the permit
22   after considering all comments and will send notice of
23   final decision to each person who has submitted

24   comments or requested such notice.

25             Before we start discussing the rules of the


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                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
 1   hearing, we're going to have Darin Lum come up here and
 2   speak, from the Department of Health, Clear Air Branch,
 3   for a couple of minutes.

 4             DARIN LUM:   Good evening.   I'm Darin Lum with
 5   the Clean Air Branch, State of Hawaii, Department of

 6   Health.
 7             The purpose of this public hearing is to
 8   consider and solicit public comments on a draft air

 9   pollution control permit to be issued to Hu Honua
10   Bioenergy, LLC.

11             The draft air pollution control permit and

12   application is being processed pursuant to the
13   requirements set forth in the Hawaii Administrative

14   Rules, Chapter 11-60.1.    It is the preliminary

15   determination of the Department that the proposed

16   project, subject to the conditions of the draft permit,
17   will be in compliance with all applicable state and

18   federal air pollution control regulations.

19             The draft air pollution control permit, if

20   issued, is described as follows:
21             Covered source permit number 0724-01-C would

22   grant conditional approval for the construction and

23   operation of a bioenergy facility which includes a 407
24   MMBTU per hour boiler.

25             The boiler is subject to the federal


 1   requirements of 40 CFR Part 60, Subpart Db, standards
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                        09-15 doh hrg.txt
 2   of performance for industrial, commercial,

 3   institutional steam generating units, and 40 CFR Part
 4   63, Subpart DDDD, national emission standards for
 5   hazardous air pollutants for industrial, commercial,

 6   and industrial boilers and process heaters, and
 7   incorporates an ESP to control particulate matter, urea
 8   injection to control nitrogen oxides, and a dry sorbent

 9   injection system to control hydrogen chloride and

10   sulfur oxides.   The boiler would be allowed only to
11   burn wood and biodiesel.
12             All public comments received from this

13   hearing and the comment period pertaining to the draft

14   air pollution control permit will be considered prior
15   to the Department taking action on the permits.

16             THE HEARING OFFICER:   Before we get started,

17   I just want to make one comment regarding the draft

18   permit and the comments.   There is going to be an

19   extension from September 22nd, 2010 until October 12th,
20   2010.

21             Now, for the ground rules for the hearing,

22   it's going to be -- essentially the order of people
23   testifying would be the first person signed in to
24   testify would be first, the second person signed in to

25   testify would be second, and so on.    Ensure that you


 1   sign in and note that you are going to be testifying so

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                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
 2   that we may call you.
 3             When you come to testify, please state your
 4   first and last name, and spell out your last name, and

 5   please state who you're representing.
 6             The time limit for this hearing, since there

 7   are so few people testifying, would be, right now,
 8   would be ten minutes per person.    If there's more
 9   people that are going to be testifying, we may need to

10   cut that down, depending on time.
11             I just want to make clear for this public

12   hearing that this public hearing is not a debate, it's

13   not a question and answer session, and it's not an
14   informational session.   We will just be taking

15   testimony at this time for the Clean Air Branch.

16             At this time, could everybody turn off their

17   electronic devices, or at least put it on silent?
18             And let's start.   The first person to testify

19   would be Isaac Fiesta, Junior.

20             ISAAC FIESTA, JR.:   Good evening.   Statement

21   of the ILWU local 142 in support of the air permit for
22   Hu Honua Bioenergy, LLC.

23             My name is Isaac Fiesta.    I'm a longtime

24   resident of the Hamakua Coast.   Last name F I E S T A,
25   first name is I S A A C, Junior.


 1             I'm here on behalf of the ILWU Local 142.
 2   I'm testifying in support of the air permit for Hu
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                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
 3   Honua Bioenergy, LLC.    My name is Isaac Fiesta, Junior.

 4   I am the president of the ILWU Local 142, and the ILWU
 5   represents some 20,000 members working in various
 6   industries in the state of Hawaii, with about 4,000 on

 7   the big island of Hawaii.
 8             Many longtime members, like me, have lived on
 9   the east side of the island for all of our lives, and

10   also, like me, many of our members grew up and worked

11   on the sugar plantations, and have a deep appreciation
12   of agriculture.    We like the rural life-style, and we
13   want to find ways to preserve it.

14             Hu Honua offers a unique opportunity for the

15   big island to cultivate and use natural resources, as
16   biomass can generate power that is needed for the big

17   island residents.    By using renewable energy resources

18   and reducing or eliminating the need of burned oil,

19   coal, and other fossil fuels, Hu Honua will help to

20   ensure the environmental stability and provide jobs
21   opportunity.

22             With approval of the air permit, Hu Honua can

23   expand its project and provide good paying union jobs
24   to more big island residents.
25             Those of us who live in this community value


 1   our clean air.    Hu Honua project will do nothing to

 2   jeopardize it, but are offering many new benefits to

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                        09-15 doh hrg.txt
 3   our community.
 4              ILWU Local 142 strongly supports and approves
 5   of the air permit for Hu Honua Bioenergy, LLC.      Thank

 6   you very much for allowing me this opportunity to
 7   testify.

 8              There is my written testimony.   That's about
 9   it.   I just wanted a few comments.
10              I guess if you look around, the local people

11   have been part of the sugar industry all our lives.
12   And when the sugar industry, up to 2002, was burning

13   coal, you never see any complaints.    And Hu Honua will

14   not be burning coal.    They'll be burning biomass, and
15   it will meet the minimum requirement.    So we want the

16   Department that you guys represent to look at the

17   minimum requirements.

18              I know there's going to be some people say,
19   you know, if they knew they wouldn't be here.    I just

20   want to say that in the 1890s, '98, I believe -- 1889,

21   1889 the sugar industry had Pepeekeo mill.    In 1974 the

22   power plant was in operation, up until 2002.
23              So when they bought the property, the stack

24   was up, the mill was up.    So keep that in mind.    It's

25   not we're asking you guys to provide a permit on a new.


 1   It's been there for a while.    So keep that in mind.
 2              Thank you very much.
 3              THE HEARING OFFICER: Next to testify would
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                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
 4   be Richard Baker, Junior.

 5               RICHARD BAKER:   Thank you.   My name is
 6   Richard Baker, Junior.    You want me to spell my last
 7   name?   It's pretty simple.

 8               I am an ILWU Hawaii division director, so
 9   this island, I represent the ILWU membership.      Our
10   president had just talked a few seconds ago.

11               I am a former sugar worker.    I live in

12   Pepeekeo.    I was in the Pepeekeo old plantation camp,
13   and I lived in a house overlooking the sugar factory.
14               And today, Hu Honua is proposing to operate

15   the biomass plant, and I give credit to these people to

16   taking this venture.    We need bioenergy.    We need to be
17   able to not be depending upon fuel oil.

18               I believe your role in the Health

19   Department -- I want to thank you for coming here.

20   You're always important.     We believe that this employer

21   will provide the clean air, will provide regulations,
22   will live up to your standards, and will follow the

23   rules that you set for them.

24               These are competitive employers.    They've
25   hired some of our people already, and they have lived


 1   up to their word.    They are dedicated to work with the
 2   community.    They want to be part of the community,

 3   they've had various community meetings, and they want

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                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
 4   to be a good neighbor. We welcome them to the
 5   community.
 6             Also, the others who have moved into this

 7   community, they're welcome, too, but we need to work
 8   together, live together, and play together.     We cannot

 9   just be not in my back yard syndrome.
10             This power plant is good for us.     It's
11   willing to blend in with the community.     It's willing

12   to do whatever is necessary to meet requirements of
13   clean air for the community.    They've reached out so

14   many times, and we're willing to work with them.      The

15   union, ILWU, is willing to keep them accountable.
16   We're willing to work with them.

17             I've told them many times, as long as the

18   safety and health of our people in the community,

19   that's what we're looking for.    I have children, I have
20   grandchild.    We want something that's not going to

21   poison all of us, and they're not going to do that.      So

22   the big fear that is being spread around is this big,

23   bad company is coming in and going to create an
24   unhealthy, unsafe atmosphere.    No way.

25             And you know that you will set those


 1   requirements, and they need to follow those

 2   requirements.    Thank you.
 3             THE HEARING OFFICER:    I apologize about the
 4   next name.    Next name is Elmer Gorospe.
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 5             ELMER GOROSPE:    Hello, everybody.    Elmer

 6   Gorospe, E L M E R, G O R O S P E.
 7             Good evening, everyone.    I'm here to speak in
 8   support of Hu Honua.

 9             The past two years I attended a number of
10   community meetings, and heard community members from
11   different districts.    They talked about the emissions,

12   air quality.   They talked about the ashes on their

13   rooftops, in their water tanks.    They also talked about
14   the smoke and how it will linger and create haze in the
15   skies across Hilo.

16             I was quite confused on those statements that

17   was made, as I sat in the same meetings.    My
18   understanding, my understanding during those meetings

19   is that Hu Honua would have a state of the art emission

20   control system.   And one of the key components is an

21   electric precipitator, which acts like a big catalytic

22   converter, similar to what you have in your car to help
23   control the emissions.

24             Smoke is made up of gases, particulate

25   matters, or tiny particles of carbon, and inside an


 1   electric precipitator is made up of high voltage

 2   electrical plates.    Part of the process is when the
 3   smoke passes through the high voltage electrical

 4   plates, the carbons or ashes becomes magnetically stuck

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                        09-15 doh hrg.txt
 5   to those plates.
 6             As a result, what you will see out of that
 7   smokestack is nothing but heat vapors, or also known as

 8   water vapors.
 9             Am I saying that there's zero emissions?    No.

10   The cars that we use today to come to this meeting has
11   emissions.
12             However, I believe Hu Honua facility will

13   meet or exceed what the EPA requires.    The reason why I
14   know this is that I'm a former power plant operator,

15   and I worked in a similar facility, like this one.

16             As you guys can see, there is minimal impact
17   to our community and to the environment.    So I urge you

18   to please support Hu Honua.   Thank you.

19             THE HEARING OFFICER:    Next would be George

20   Martin.
21             GEORGE MARTIN:   George Martin, ILWU.

22             As the previous speakers have mentioned, I,

23   too, grew up here on the coast.    I worked for Hamakua

24   Sugar, and as the previous speaker mentioned, he worked
25   in the power plant, and I did, too, at Hamakua Sugar.


 1             I know a little bit about emissions, and the
 2   department that I worked in towards the end of my

 3   career, when before the plantations went down, allowed
 4   me to learn a little bit about it.
 5             And today's technology would allow this
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                          09-15 doh hrg.txt
 6   company, Hu Honua, to produce, as Elmer indicated, much

 7   safer emissions.   There will be some, no doubt about
 8   it, but the regulations that are set forth by the State
 9   have to be met and/or exceeded.      If they're not, then

10   the permit will be pulled.
11             Without the opportunity to try and make that
12   happen, what good is this company doing us?      They've

13   been here for a couple years trying.      We've been trying

14   to help them also.
15             Again, if the permit is granted, I believe
16   opportunities will abound by it, work opportunity along

17   with cheap renewable energy.    So I encourage you to

18   support the permit and allow it to happen.      Thank you.
19             THE HEARING OFFICER:      Next would be Don

20   Bryan.

21             DON BRYAN:    Good evening.    My name is Don

22   Bryan, spelled B R Y A N.    I represent Tradewinds

23   Hawaiian Woods.
24             I have some experience with this process

25   myself, having gone through the whole thing, and


 1   finished two years ago.    I spent three years doing
 2   that, and I learned a little bit about the air over the

 3   course of that three years.
 4             One of the things that I've learned is it's

 5   pretty tough to get everybody on Hawaii island to agree

                               Page 15
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
 6   on anything.    The closest that I think we can come to
 7   agreeing on things is, first, that we need new jobs,
 8   and second, that we need renewable energy.     Hu Honua

 9   here, is here to produce those two things that we all
10   agree we need.

11               The fact of the new jobs speaks for
12   themselves.    Read your voters' pamphlet.   Every
13   politician is tuned into this.    The first thing he says

14   we need is jobs, jobs, jobs.    Well, here's a chance to
15   get some.

16               What I do want to talk about more is the

17   plant's role in renewable energy and in clean air.        We
18   are doing great on renewable energy on Hawaii island.

19   We're now at about 35 percent, maybe providing towards

20   40 percent of all of this energy on this island.

21               But we can do better, but we are at a
22   standstill on further improvements, and that is for a

23   simple reason.    If the sun doesn't shine or the rivers

24   don't run or the wind doesn't blow, that renewable

25   energy stops.


 1               We don't all intend to turn our lights off

 2   when that happens.    We still need the power.    So we
 3   need dependable renewables that can cover, that can

 4   back up the renewables that come and go.     That's the
 5   nature of the other type of renewables.
 6               People like to say, wouldn't it be great if
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                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
 7   you could just store the sun's energy and then we can

 8   have it all the time?    I want you to think about
 9   something.    That's exactly what wood is.    It's stored
10   solar energy.    You put it in a pile, and you can use it

11   when the wind isn't blowing and the rivers aren't
12   flowing to make renewable energy that we need.
13               So far, so good, you might say, but isn't it

14   dirty?   Do we have to rely on the good will of the Hu

15   Honua folks to have clean air?      Well, I happen to
16   believe that -- I know these folks.      I believe that
17   they are good folks, and they intend to do exactly what

18   they say.    Build a clean plant.

19               But beyond that, there's something beyond
20   that that I think needs to be understood.      They

21   couldn't make a dirty mill if they wanted to.      There is

22   a very tough federal clean air law, and there's tougher

23   laws in Hawaii that prevent this mill from running

24   dirty.   The laws are tough and they are in force.
25               I'll give you some examples of what's


 1   happened.    The records show that, where we got a clean
 2   air permit, the power plant at Ookala once produced
 3   twenty times as much air particulates as would be legal

 4   today.   That's what it used to be.     That's what you
 5   think of when you think of the big black clouds.

 6   Twenty times.

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                        09-15 doh hrg.txt
 7              The Clean Air Act was passed in 1970, so
 8   we've lived with the Clean Air Act for forty years.
 9   EPA says that the carbon monoxide emissions have

10   dropped across this entire country from one ton per
11   person to down to 510 pounds per person.    We've cut it

12   to a quarter of what it used to be because of the Clean
13   Air Act.   It's tough, and it's being enforced.
14              According to EPA, air toxics from all

15   industry have decreased by seventy percent over that
16   time, and the six most common pollutants from all

17   sources is down by half.

18              So the point is that law is tough, it's
19   enforced, and it's working.   The State Department of

20   Health must enforce it, and if they don't, the federal

21   EPA will do the job for them.

22              I'd like you to consider one more thing about
23   life in Hawaii for the forest products industry.     There

24   will be a forest products industry in Hawaii.     That's

25   what I'm all about.   That's what I do.


 1              But not every part of every tree can end up
 2   as a finished, high value product.    When you

 3   manufacture logs into product, you lose about forty
 4   percent of every log, and hundreds of logs go into high

 5   value products.   That's a lot of wood to pile up.
 6   We've got a lot of trees around us.
 7              What should we do with them?   Well, there are
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                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
 8   really two choices on this island.        That is, we can

 9   create jobs and turn that wood into energy, renewable
10   energy here in Hawaii, or we can ship it to Asia to be
11   manufactured into paper pulp.        I prefer, I vote for

12   leaving it here in Hawaii and making clean renewable
13   energy.
14               I urge you to support Hu Honua's energy

15   permit.   Thank you very much.

16               THE HEARING OFFICER:      Next would be George
17   Yokoyama.
18               GEORGE YOKOYAMA:   Members of the Clean Air

19   Branch.   Is that right?    My name is George Yokoyama,

20   Y O K O Y A M A, and I testify in support of Hu Honua
21   Bioenergy project in Pepeekeo, Hawaii.

22               I strongly believe the following contributes

23   reasonably to the justification of Hu Honua in Hawaii.

24   Big island's energy rating is one of the highest in the

25   nation, if not the highest.     Big island.     Compounded by


 1   the fact of importation of dirty, unclean fossil fuel
 2   to generate electricity.
 3               Okay, for nearly twenty years, since the
 4   demise of the sugar industry, east Hawaii is faced with

 5   the highest unemployment rate in the state, the highest
 6   public welfare assistance in the state, east Hawaii,

 7   and the highest homestead recipients in the state.

                                Page 19
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
 8             We're talking about plantation life for all
 9   the people here, which exist for generations.     The
10   plantation, full employment.    Now it's not.   You're

11   working for minimum wage now.
12             The Hu Honua project will create jobs.

13   That's the main thing, create jobs.    Not minimum wage
14   jobs, but high paying jobs.    Clean air, clean energy,
15   and alleviate the cost of energy by giving to the

16   national, state, and county priority of clean energy.
17             Please consider awarding this permit, and I

18   thank you for allowing me to testify.

19             THE HEARING OFFICER:    Next to testify would
20   be Lester Seto.

21             LESTER SETO:    Aloha, Department of Health and

22   Clean Air Branch staff.

23             My name is Lester Seto, L E S T E R, S E T O.
24   I am the interim executive director for the Hawaii

25   County Economic Opportunity Council, HCEOC, and I am


 1   here to support the approval of the air permit for Hu
 2   Honua.
 3             This is an important project for our

 4   community, because it creates new jobs, supports local
 5   agriculture, and reduces our dependence on imported oil

 6   by using locally grown biomass.
 7             I am also pleased to say that the Pepeekeo
 8   mill, which was for many years a vital part of the
                            Page 20
                        09-15 doh hrg.txt
 9   economy in this area, will now be restored, and that

10   jobs that have been lost due to the demise of sugar
11   will also become available.
12              It is important to note that the Hu Honua

13   project will be based upon the use of locally grown
14   biomass.   This focus on local agriculture will help to
15   sustain the rural life-style of the Hamakua Coast, and

16   provide critical jobs to build upon the skills learned

17   by those who previously worked in the sugar industry.
18              Hu Honua managers have indicated that they
19   expect to have about thirty full-time employees at the

20   power plant, and that over one hundred workers will be

21   needed to harvest and haul the fuel to the plant.
22              In addition, there will be about one hundred

23   construction jobs during the ten to twelve month

24   construction period for the plant.

25              Hu Honua has also committed to use local


 1   support shops whenever possible.

 2              Hu Honua has already started to hire and
 3   train local people to work at the plant.   They worked
 4   through our agency, the Hawaii County Economic
 5   Opportunity Council, to get the initial four employees

 6   through a year-long welding and pipe fitting skilled
 7   training program at the Hawaii Community College.     Hu

 8   Honua sent the employees to class on company time, and

                             Page 21
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
 9   paid the tuition and expenses for the program.
10             Their commitment to continue to hire locally
11   and to invest in their employees is the right way to

12   build a long-term business operation supported by the
13   community.

14             The Hu Honua willingness to build the economy
15   of this community combined with the company's plan to
16   refurbish the plant using state of the art emission

17   control technology is commendable.
18             I believe Hu Honua has been responsive to the

19   concerns of the community, and I urge the Department of

20   Health to approve the draft air permit.
21             Thank you for the opportunity to testify on

22   this project.

23             THE HEARING OFFICER:   Next would be Barbara

24   Hanog.
25             BARBARA HANOG:   My name is Barbara Hanog, and


 1   evidently my last name was spelled incorrectly, and

 2   it's spelled H A N O G.
 3             My name is Barbara Hanog.   I'm the president
 4   of the Seniors of Pepeekeo, president of the Pepeekeo

 5   ILW Pension Club.   I am here in support of approval of
 6   the air permit for Hu Honua.

 7             I would like to thank the Department of
 8   Health, and in particular the Clean Air Branch, for the
 9   hard job that has been done in preparing the draft air
                            Page 22
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
10   permit.

11              The Hu Honua project can bring significant
12   economic benefits to the Pepeekeo community, especially
13   the jobs it will provide, in addition to the focus of

14   the renewable, sustainable energy production.   A power
15   operation that uses locally grown biomass instead of
16   imported oil has to be better for the environment as

17   well as our state economy.

18              Hu Honua has committed to do this project
19   right away, investing in noise abatement and state of
20   the art emissions control technologies, which will

21   protect the environment and the quality of life in our

22   community.
23              Their plans even address truck trafficking,

24   showing their desire to balance minor inconveniences

25   with the desire to get the benefits of the larger


 1   project.

 2              I understand the emissions permitted under

 3   the draft permit requirements will be a significant
 4   reduction for what they were when the plant was a coal
 5   burning facility.
 6              My family and I, who lived in this community

 7   nearly all our lives, and we suffered no ill effects.
 8   And again, we suffered no ill effects from the prior

 9   operation of the plant.

                               Page 23
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
10               I don't see how anyone can say the
11   refurbishment will be bad for the community, given the
12   steps that are now being taken to make the plant much

13   cleaner.    For the benefit of our community, I urge the
14   Department of Health to approve the draft air permit.

15               Thank you for the opportunity to testify on
16   this project.    Aloha.
17               THE HEARING OFFICER:      Next would be Gary

18   Faagau.
19               GARY FAAGAU:   Hi, my name is Gary Faagau.

20   That's spelled F A A G A U.

21               I am a resident of Pepeekeo, a chemical
22   engineer.    I spent thirty years in the energy industry.

23   I am here representing Keep Our Island Clean, LLC of

24   Pepeekeo.

25               All the opinions I'm expressing are that of


 1   Keep Our Island Clean, and will be given in written
 2   testimony before the October 12th date, but I'm giving

 3   a summary of some of that stuff that's in there.
 4               Keep Our Island Clean is dedicated to
 5   bringing true clean energy to Hawaii.        Keep Our Island

 6   Clean believes the big island electrical production can
 7   be a hundred percent from island sources.        And, by the

 8   way, geothermal doesn't stop.        It's a twenty-four hour
 9   a day process.    It doesn't need sunlight.      It can work
10   on this island.
                                Page 24
                        09-15 doh hrg.txt
11              However, Keep Our Island Clean is totally

12   against this proposed air permit, because it is not, it
13   does not accomplish what this island needs.
14              Let's look at the Hu Honua advertisement

15   here.   And it says here in their advertisement that
16   power generated from the Hu Honua facility will
17   displace power from old oil burning power plants, and

18   that's true.

19              The president of HELCO has stated that if
20   this plant starts operating and is reliable, he will
21   shut down an oil plant.    There are workers in this oil

22   plant that he plans to shut down; good, hard working

23   union workers who need to feed their families.
24              But no one talks about those people in those

25   plants.   There are longtime union workers who have


 1   lifetime, who are lifetime residents of this island,
 2   and who have families and kids to feed.    Keep Our

 3   Island Clean would hate to campaign for something that

 4   would throw those people out on the streets and in
 5   unemployment.
 6              Where is that in the Hu Honua advertisement?
 7   I have not read that in the newspapers.

 8              The politicians that support replacing oil
 9   plants don't seem to worry about the people in those

10   plants.   This plant is not creating jobs.   It is

                               Page 25
                        09-15 doh hrg.txt
11   replacing jobs.
12             So let's talk about Hu Honua.    Nice sounding
13   Hawaiian name, meaning from the dirt.    The majority of

14   Hu Honua is -- the major owner of Ho Honua is C-Change
15   Investment Management LLC of Boston, Massachusetts.

16   This is about as far away from Hawaii as you can get
17   and still be in America.
18             Now, we know Hu Honua will say that they're a

19   Honolulu based company and the president and officers
20   are here on Hawaii, but the profit from this plant will

21   go to Boston.   We want to emphasize this, because we

22   have not seen anything that shows our electric prices
23   will drop one penny from this plant.

24             Now, the partner of Hu Honua is Ethanol

25   Research Hawaii.   Ethanol Research was one of the chief


 1   lobbyists for putting ethanol in our gasoline.    Ethanol

 2   was supposed to help the farmers and local communities.
 3             We have had the ethanol mandate for five

 4   years now, and there are no large scale ethanol plants
 5   in Hawaii.   700 million dollars from our communities
 6   have left Hawaii through ethanol.   Instead, the money

 7   is now going to mainly foreign countries, like Brazil.
 8             What is worse is that our cars have been

 9   using -- use more fuel because ethanol is inefficient.
10   We pay more for our gasoline, and the money ends up
11   cutting down rainforests in Brazil.    This is someone's
                            Page 26
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
12   idea of green, but it is not ours.

13             Now, Ethanol Research Hawaii did not
14   anticipate that Hawaii was going to buy ethanol from
15   Brazil, but it is this type of incomplete planning that

16   gets us into trouble.
17             As an example, take the eucalyptus trees.
18   There is no reforestation plan here.   And the estimates

19   I heard from our own island's Planning Commissioner has

20   that the trees will run out in seven years.
21             Also, this plant is inefficient.    For every
22   ten trees that are cut down, only two trees of

23   electricity is produced.   And if you do your numbers in

24   the BTU content of electricity in this permit, it shows
25   that.


 1             All I see is greed from a Boston company who
 2   wants to exploit our natural resources and an ethanol
 3   company that promised things that they never delivered.

 4             Keep Our Island Clean knows people want to

 5   trust this Boston company, but so far they have sued
 6   residents here in Pepeekeo that have resisted the
 7   plant, and have not bothered to pay for the last 36
 8   months of road maintenance fees that they had signed a

 9   contract to do.
10             We also still remember their promises of not

11   putting the very noisy wood chipper on site, and yet

                             Page 27
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
12   the wood chipper is going on site. And their promises
13   of walkways and bike paths and being a good neighbor;
14   we have seen nothing of that sort, although we have

15   heard that somebody got a free microwave.
16               Now, the property the plant is on was up for

17   sale recently, and Hu Honua would not even bid on that
18   property.    This tells me that they are not interested
19   in being long-term members of our community.

20               They have no -- they have not proposed any
21   plans to work on Sugar Mill Road.    They would not even

22   consider doing any work to make sure trucks can turn

23   safely off the highway until the Department of
24   Transportation told them that they had to do a study.

25               Now, we are pretty sure that they will


 1   advertise after the study is complete that they worked

 2   diligently with the State officials on making our roads

 3   safer.   But that, like -- that is really, they have no
 4   choice in that.

 5               So what we have, we have no idea why people
 6   believe they will keep their verbal promises.    This is
 7   why we want to make sure everything is on paper, signed

 8   and dated, with stiff penalties.
 9               Now, I read through the permit application,

10   and Hu Honua did not do a true best available control
11   technology determination.    They have presented a
12   certain scenario to the Department of Health, and they
                            Page 28
                        09-15 doh hrg.txt
13   called it BACT.

14              The EPA is very specific on how you determine
15   if something is BACT.   Hu Honua did not do that, so
16   what they are using should not be called BACT.     It is

17   their version of what they would like the State to call
18   BACT, and nothing more.
19              Now, let's talk about this once a year

20   testing.   One of my favorite sayings is you can't

21   control what you don't measure.     The Department of
22   Health should require that Hu Honua does continuous
23   monitoring of all pollutants.

24              A CEM is one of the best available control

25   technologies, and the device costs less than $50,000.


 1   It deters the plant from cheating and makes sure that

 2   the plant is below allowable limits.
 3              How does the State expect that the plant will
 4   meet the three hour average without an analyzer?     Why

 5   does Hu Honua not put on a system so that we know that

 6   they are in compliance?
 7              Now, I know -- I went to the EPA web site,
 8   and I found sixteen plants, biomass plants of similar
 9   size to Hu Honua that burn wood chips.     So sixteen

10   plants in the U.S., similar size to Hu Honua, burning
11   wood chips.

12              I checked the pounds per BTU number that Hu

                               Page 29
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
13   Honua proposed and that the State wrote in the draft,
14   and found twelve plants out of sixteen had lower
15   emissions than that set in this permit.     Most of those

16   plants were put in in the 1980s, so these are plants
17   that are twenty to thirty years old, that all have

18   lower emission rates than what is in this permit.
19             As an example, Hu Honua proposed .15 pounds
20   per MMBTU for NOx emissions.    Burney Forrest Products

21   of California and HL of California are two plants,
22   about 25 megawatts, that have emission rates that are

23   75 percent of that number for NOx.    Rio Bravo Rocklin

24   is 60 percent of that number.    AES Mendota and Woodland
25   Biomass is 50 percent of that number.    And Rio Bravo


 1   Fresno is 40 percent of this number.
 2             So I have just named six plants that have 30

 3   to 60 percent lower emissions than the draft for NOx in

 4   this permit.   And there's actually more.    There's
 5   twelve plants total.

 6             So how can the State of Hawaii accept what Hu
 7   Honua gave as best available technology when there's
 8   twelve of sixteen biomass plants built twenty years ago

 9   that do better?
10             Now, I also checked the emission rates for

11   biomass plants set by other states.    These are rates
12   that are actually written by other states.     And when
13   you look at carbon monoxide, the proposed Hu Honua rate
                            Page 30
                        09-15 doh hrg.txt
14   is .176 pounds per MMBTUs.   I found a rate in New

15   Hampshire and Massachusetts that's 65 percent of that,
16   so their numbers are closer to .11.
17              Now, since Hu Honua is a Boston company, you

18   would expect them to know the rates in their state, and
19   they would propose something closer to that instead of
20   the higher rate that they propose in our state.

21              I also want to talk about Hu Honua, how they

22   presented their information.    In their application they
23   talked about eucalyptus with 45 or 55 percent moisture
24   content.   So that everyone understands, this is the

25   normal moisture content of dry eucalyptus logs.


 1              I'm not sure the Boston company knows it, but

 2   it rains a lot here in the Hamakua Coast, and I'm

 3   absolutely surprised that the State did not request Hu
 4   Honua to submit data on wet wood chips.
 5              I did some Internet search and found out that

 6   wet or green eucalyptus chips contain up to 80 percent

 7   water, and that it leads to dry, to have dry conditions
 8   for two months after cutting.
 9              Now, I don't know if anyone believes that Hu
10   Honua is going to wait two months after they cut the

11   chips to put it in that machine.
12              During the rainy season, the water content of

13   the wood can increase substantially.    Hu Honua should

                             Page 31
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
14   have presented pollution numbers under those
15   conditions.
16             The one number that steps out the most is

17   carbon monoxide.   Carbon monoxide released from wet
18   wood would be substantially higher than that from dry

19   wood, because the boiler needs to use energy to
20   vaporize that water.
21             Now, Hu Honua's permit number is 246 tons per

22   year, and the limit is at 250 tons per year.    So it
23   doesn't take that much wet wood for that number to

24   exceed the permit.

25             Now, if you're only measuring once a year,


 1   you'll never be able to catch this.    And that's why we

 2   need a continuous monitoring system, because there's no
 3   way to catch this unless you do it continuously.

 4             I want to put out to the State that the last

 5   time this plant came in with a scheme to reduce
 6   emissions, it presented data and said that raising the

 7   stack would help reduce NOx distribution.    The State
 8   believed them.   They raised the stack.   It didn't work.
 9   They asked for a waiver.    They were granted a waiver.

10             I point this out because Hu Honua is saying
11   that it's going to use good operating principles to

12   reduce carbon monoxide.    This plant has not been able
13   to reduce carbon monoxide numbers under bagasse, which
14   was 1,100 tons per year.
                            Page 32
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
15             I'm not sure how Hu Honua expects that

16   changing to younger operators is going to magically
17   reduce that number to below 250 tons per year.     Maybe I
18   missed something, but I just don't understand that.

19             There's a lot more, but I'm running out of
20   time, so everything is going to be in a written report,
21   and I'll submit it and wait for the State to respond.

22             But I do want to say before I leave that I do

23   not like the tactics of trying to pit one group in this
24   community against another group in this community.     We
25   are all human beings and all want the best for our


 1   neighborhood.
 2             I really do want more jobs.   I also want a

 3   nice place to live.   I am concerned about being

 4   exploited by out of state companies that want to make a
 5   quick dollar by cutting corners, and not providing what
 6   is required and what is best for this community.

 7             I believe Hu Honua can reduce the emissions

 8   in this draft by another 50 percent, because that is
 9   required in other states.   If it's good enough for
10   other states, it should be good enough for Hawaii.
11             The cost of the extra, of extra controls is

12   minimal, and when you consider the lives of our
13   children and elderly, it's small.

14             If Hu Honua wants to start this plant, then

                             Page 33
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
15   they need to do it the right way. Thank you.
16              THE HEARING OFFICER:    Next would be Marcus
17   Spallek.

18              MARCUS SPALLEK:   Aloha.   My name is Marcus
19   Spallek, S P A L L E K.

20              I was born and raised here in Waiame, and I
21   actually went to the mainland.     I studied engineering,
22   and I recently did my master's in bioengineering over

23   at UH Manoa.
24              I am no longer doing that.    I started up an

25   organic farm that's just a mile down from the power


 1   plant in Pepeekeo.    So, yeah, I'm very interested in

 2   the local effects of the air emissions, so I want to

 3   strongly urge the Department of Health not to grant the
 4   air permit.

 5              Also I want to strongly -- I want -- I'd like

 6   to clarify.    Do not grant the permit without doing the
 7   proper studies.    Do an environmental assessment.   Do an

 8   environmental impact statement.
 9              We know, as Gary just mentioned, the air
10   emissions are going to be way in excess of what the

11   best available technology is.     We have much better
12   technology.    These people are trying to do this as

13   cheaply as they possibly can and not put in the
14   appropriate equipment to reduce the emissions.
15              So, yeah, the air, clearly the numbers they
                             Page 34
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
16   have in the draft permit are actually illegal under the

17   Clean Air Act.   I'll go into more detail in the written
18   testimony.
19             The water, I think, is a huge issue.   Two

20   million gallons of wastewater every day will be flushed
21   right out into the ocean.   Killed off all the flora,
22   the plants that's up -- you know, when it was running

23   last time, and it's going to do it again.

24             And that flume actually collapsed into the
25   ocean, and they need to rebuild that, and any shoreline


 1   construction requires an environmental impact

 2   statement.
 3             Also the traffic.   I mean, one of these

 4   trucks coming down the road every fifteen minutes is

 5   going to be a safety hazard turning off the highway.
 6   There needs to be a traffic study there to mitigate
 7   safety hazards to the community, and that is another

 8   trigger for an environmental impact statement.

 9             So we really do need to properly study what
10   the effects of putting this plant into the community
11   are going to be before we just go ahead and say yes, on
12   good faith, we believe that you're going to do the best

13   you possibly can.
14             When you actually look at what they're

15   proposing, it's not the best available control

                             Page 35
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
16   technology.    They're trying to get away with the
17   cheapest technology they could possibly put in.
18               This electrostatic precipitator, that's the

19   same thing that you can get plugged in an Ionic Breeze
20   down at Wal-Mart for twenty bucks, guys, just an

21   upscaled version.    This is not the best available
22   control technology.    There are much better scrubbers
23   available.

24               And as Gary mentioned, if you monitor the
25   emissions one time every year, how are you supposed to


 1   know what's coming out of the plant?      We have

 2   continuous monitoring available.     That is the best

 3   available control technology.

 4               We must actually know what's coming out of
 5   the plant if we want to hold these people accountable.

 6   Just to say that you can do whatever you want, and once

 7   a year you're going to monitor it, this is crazy,
 8   people.

 9               Okay, I'm going to move on.    This is not
10   green energy.    Biomass is not clean, green energy.     On
11   economic grounds --

12               Okay, even before I get there, okay, burning
13   trees.    That's what this is.   They're talking about

14   cutting down trees, trucking it fifty miles and burning
15   it, and calling it green energy.     It is not.
16               We have plenty of sources of clean, green
                              Page 36
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
17   energy available here on our island.      Geothermal is the

18   most obvious.   The whole country of Iceland is powered
19   off their geothermal.    They have the cheapest
20   electricity in the world.

21             We should have the cheapest electricity in
22   the entire country, not the most expensive.      This plant
23   will not bring down electric rates one cent.      HELCO

24   sets those rates.   They're going to sell their

25   electricity to HELCO, and HELCO is not going to lower


 1   rates unless we can produce it more efficiently.

 2             Geothermal and hydroelectric are

 3   cost-effective, 24/7 ways to produce energy that
 4   actually is sustainable and green.      Burning trees is

 5   not clean, green technology, people.

 6             Okay, moving on from that.      The trucking.
 7   Okay, even if you're going to look at the carbon
 8   footprint of this thing.    In theory, growing more

 9   trees, there's not actually a plan in place to regrow

10   the trees they're talking about burning.      That plan
11   does not exist.
12             They actually can't even renew the lease on
13   their land for another five years, and so that's a

14   whole 'nother topic.    They do not have a proper
15   agriforestry plan in place to regrow the trees.

16             But anyway, I digress.    The point I'm trying

                              Page 37
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
17   to make is as soon as you truck these trees fifty
18   miles, we're still dependent on foreign oil to power
19   these trucks.    And also, even if you try to do the

20   carbon balance, it's not in any way, shape, or form
21   clean and green.    And in addition to all the wear and

22   tear on the roads, safety hazards, and all that.
23             Okay, and this boiler was built in the
24   seventies.    It's really quite inefficient.    We have

25   much better technology available today.


 1             And if this is going to come on as a new
 2   source, first of all, put the boiler where the material

 3   is located.    Put the power plant where the trees are.

 4   People that are doing biomass plants on the mainland

 5   and other places, what works is when you have the power
 6   plant next to the source of feed stock and away from

 7   residential communities.    Putting heavy industry in a

 8   residential community is insanity.
 9             That's another thing.    The zoning issues

10   there, I think it's crazy that you guys are thinking
11   about doing this.
12             But getting back to the, yeah, the

13   sustainable agriforestry, the eucalyptus.      No one has a
14   plan in place to replant this so that there would be a

15   continuous available source of wood chips for this
16   plant.
17             But if you want to look at a sensible
                            Page 38
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
18   agriforestry plan, we should be planting new trees.       We

19   should be planting timber and bamboo.     We should be
20   looking into improving the health and fertility of our
21   soil.

22              This is, natural farming is near and dear to
23   my heart, so I think we should not be stripping the
24   life out of the soil and burning it.     This is crazy.

25              I could go on for hours, but I know time is


 1   short.   I'll submit more detail in my written

 2   testimony.

 3              Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to

 4   speak, and I would strongly encourage the Department of
 5   Health, do not grant the air permit without doing the,

 6   yeah, proper evaluation.    Do an environmental

 7   assessment, do an environmental impact statement.
 8   Really look at the effect this is going to have on our
 9   community before we just go ahead, without looking into

10   it sufficiently.

11              Thank you for your time.
12              THE HEARING OFFICER:    We're going to have one
13   more before we take a ten minute break.     It will be
14   Raquel Dow.

15              RAQUEL DOW:   My name is Raquel Dow, D O W.     I
16   live in Pepeekeo.

17              Members of the Clean Air Branch and fellow

                              Page 39
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
18   citizens, I, too, am concerned about the pollution that
19   will be generated by this plant.     Hu Honua says we will
20   not see any smoke coming from the stack, that their

21   emissions will be invisible.
22              However, they acknowledge that nitrous oxide

23   emissions -- nitrous oxide is an invisible gas -- will
24   actually increase over that that was produced when the
25   power plant was run on coal, with its much more visible


 1   large particulate matter, yet nitrous oxide is a far

 2   more dangerous gas for us to breathe.
 3              I'm also concerned about the pollution

 4   produced by the harvesting and transporting of the

 5   biomass.   They are currently projecting five to six

 6   trucks per hour to bring the biomass here, but that's,
 7   in reality, ten to twelve trucks, because each truck

 8   that comes also has to go back.

 9              As anyone who has ever driven our highways
10   behind a truck knows, there are no essential controls

11   on the emissions from trucks.     You see the huge clouds
12   of black smoke as the trucks go up and down the
13   highways, and that will contribute to increased

14   environmental pollution, more noxious gases for us to
15   breathe.

16              There's also all the emissions from the
17   chainsaws and such that will be used to harvest the
18   trees.
                             Page 40
                           09-15 doh hrg.txt
19              This power plant is not clean.     Burning

20   anything is not clean.     Geothermal is clean.    Wave,
21   wind, solar are clean sources of energy, and we have
22   all of those in abundance on this island.

23              I urge the Clean Air Branch to carefully
24   consider the environment of this island and the health
25   of its citizens in permitting this plant.      Thank you.


 1              THE HEARING OFFICER:     Okay, we'll take a ten

 2   minute break, and we'll be starting in ten minutes

 3   sharp.   Thank you.

 4              (Recessed at 7:31 p.m., hearing resumed at

 5   7:41 p.m.)
 6              THE HEARING OFFICER:     The next person to

 7   testify is Mike Pearring.

 8              MIKE PEARRING:    Good evening.   My name is
 9   Mike Pearring.   That's P E A R R I N G.
10              I'm a resident of Pepeekeo, and I'm here to

11   testify in opposition to the draft air permit.       I will

12   be brief, because I will be submitting written
13   testimony.
14              I read the draft permit, and I find it
15   inadequate at protecting the public health.       And I'm

16   glad that some of the people have been testifying about
17   health, but that's what my understanding of a clean air

18   permit is, that they're designed to protect the health

                               Page 41
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
19   of the people who live around an industrial
20   application.
21             They're not, this is not the Economic

22   Development Council that's supposed to decide whether
23   we have jobs or not, it's a place where we protect the

24   health of our citizens.
25             So I'm really glad that you're here getting


 1   the testimony, and you've extended the written comments

 2   and given us an opportunity to send you our experience

 3   about the permit.
 4             And, once again, I urge you to reconsider

 5   your draft and take into account our concerns.    Thank

 6   you very much.

 7             THE HEARING OFFICER:   Next to testify is
 8   Hannah De Motta.

 9             HANNAH DE MOTTA:   My name is Hannah De Motta.

10   I'm from Hilo, but I'm speaking for Hu Honua.
11             In all my almost eighty years on this island,

12   I have lived under two sugar plantations.   I have
13   raised four children.   I have five grandchildren and
14   six grandchildren who live here in the area.    I have

15   had no medical, major medical problems with them.     I
16   lived approximately five thousand feet from the mill

17   when I lived down in the camp.
18             My husband, as a young boy going to school,
19   had to travel, had to walk the same street, the road
                            Page 42
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
20   that will bring down the trucks to bring all that wood

21   and trees down to the plant.    He walked to school, from
22   Pepeekeo mill camp to Kawainui.
23               The road was narrower than what it is today,

24   and there was no major accidents.    The trucks came
25   down, the cars went up.    There was no major accident,


 1   and the kids did not get hit by the trucks and the
 2   cars.   Why?   Because people respected the road and

 3   respected the next driver.

 4               People who complain about pollution has to

 5   look back to their own selves, because we are the

 6   greatest polluters, because every car that gets on the
 7   highway pollutes the air with their gas and oil

 8   emission.    Who has control on that?   The power plant

 9   will have an emission control.
10               And then if we think that we will get sick
11   from the plant, I think we should look at our own

12   houses, because our own houses have all the new

13   technology and appliances.    You have your computers,
14   you have your microwave, you have your icebox, you have
15   your cell phones, and all emit radiation and high
16   energy.

17               So then I say we should grant the permit to
18   Hu Honua, because it would mean work for my five

19   grandchildren and six great children in the future.

                               Page 43
                          09-15 doh hrg.txt
20   Thank you.
21               THE HEARING OFFICER:   Next would be Roberta
22   Carriaga-De Motta.

23               ROBERTA CARRIAGA-DE MOTTA:   Aloha.   My name
24   is Roberta Carriaga-De Motta, and I'm here to support

25   the approval of air permit for Hu Honua.


 1               Many of us in Pepeekeo community grew up in

 2   sight of the old sugar mill.    My father and his father,

 3   my father-in-law and his father, all worked at the old

 4   mill.    Our families have been here through its
 5   transitions from a facility powered only by bagasse

 6   through the shutdown of the sugar operations and

 7   through the powering of the plant with coal.

 8               The plant has not only, has not only been a
 9   landmark in our daily part of our lives, it's also been

10   a good source of jobs right here in our own community.

11   None of us in Pepeekeo have suffered ill effects from
12   the plant operations, and we certainly don't think that

13   restarting the plant using cleaner fuel and modern
14   emission controls will be a problem.
15               In fact, the energy produced by the Hu Honua

16   power plant will replace energy produced by the HELCO
17   coal burning plants, and thereby eliminating some of

18   the pollution for all of Hilo, not just the Hamakua
19   Coast.
20               Some of the people opposing the project do
                              Page 44
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21   not seem willing to give the owners and Hu Honua

22   management a chance to make good on their commitments.
23   Many of them have become our friends.    We have worked
24   with them.   We see them walking the roads.   We say hi.

25             And I can understand their disappointments


 1   and some of their discouragement in the restarting of

 2   the power plant, because of some of the promises that
 3   were made to them, but promises made to them had

 4   nothing to do with the power plant.    It has nothing to

 5   do with Hilo as a whole and the benefits that we can

 6   all gain from the starting of Hu Honua.

 7             Even when Hu Honua filed its permit
 8   application and publicly committed in writing to the

 9   use of clean fuels and the best available emissions

10   technologies, opponents have refused to reconsider
11   their position and continue to falsely claim that it
12   would burn coal.

13             I personally heard this, where they continued

14   to say that they're going to burn coal, and again, just
15   false claims that continue to be made.
16             I'm happy to live and raise my two children
17   in Pepeekeo, and I applaud Hu Honua for bringing the

18   plant back to life and restarting jobs in our
19   community, and making an effort to provide cleaner

20   renewable energy for future generations and renewable

                             Page 45
                          09-15 doh hrg.txt
21   energy now.
22             Because we all know that whenever a new
23   project comes up in our communities, unfortunately the

24   big island has a very bad case of not in my back yard,
25   and it's never going to be okay in somebody's back


 1   yard, but whose back yard is it going to come into?
 2             And HELCO, my father also works for HELCO,

 3   and I remember when the geothermal plant was coming up.

 4   And it was met with huge resistance, and that project

 5   never got off the ground.    And that was many, many
 6   years ago.

 7             I would like some kind of renewable energy

 8   for my kids.   I would like some kind of renewable

 9   energy during my lifetime.    And if we continue with
10   every single renewable energy project that comes up,

11   we'll find some kind of opposition and some kind of

12   cons to the pros.
13             And we're going to have this process, which

14   is a good process.    We need this process to ensure that
15   we do have the things in place to make sure that this
16   is going to be best for the community.

17             But I believe that Hu Honua, again, should be
18   applauded for doing the right thing from an air quality

19   standpoint, and I urge the Department of Health to
20   approve the draft air permit.
21             Thank you very much for your time.
                            Page 46
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
22               THE HEARING OFFICER:   Next would be Catherine

23   Marquette.
24               CATHERINE MARQUETTE:   Hi.    My name is
25   Catherine Marquette, M A R Q U E T T E.       I live in


 1   Pepeekeo.

 2               I have lived 2,500 feet from the old mill

 3   site.    I lived there when bagasse was burned.     I lived
 4   there when coal was there.

 5               During the time, during that time, the

 6   emissions were thick, black, and obviously operating

 7   outside of the allowable emission.       It was intolerable

 8   when coal was being used.    There was daily soot on my
 9   lanai.

10               I have made several calls to the Department

11   of Health to investigate the emissions.       It was very
12   difficult to get the Department of Health to
13   investigate.

14               The testable emissions took place very early

15   in the morning or after six p.m.     I was told that the
16   Department of Health personnel needed to get permission
17   from Oahu to investigate beyond the hours of eight to
18   five.

19               I don't see anything in the draft permit that
20   will address the unfortunate lack of Department of

21   Health personnel to regulate and investigate the

                              Page 47
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
22   proposed power plant.
23              I think it is unfortunate that the Department
24   of Health is not funded to the degree to have

25   sufficient personnel to adequately monitor clean air


 1   issues.   It is hard to understand how an agency can be

 2   tasked with permitting, but not given the resources to
 3   enforce the regulations.

 4              Moving on.   The emissions from the trucks

 5   that are delivering the biomass should be taken into

 6   consideration in the permit.
 7              Hu Honua says that there will be about five

 8   to six trucks an hour delivering material to the plant.

 9   That means ten to twelve trucks an hour on the road.     I

10   would like to see the emissions from the trucks
11   addressed in the permit.

12              The next issue I'm concerned about is the air

13   quality impact assessment.    There is no on site
14   analysis of ambient concentrations of criteria

15   pollutants or air dispersion for both surface and
16   elevated sources.
17              The basis of the permit is from sources

18   either on Oahu or at Hilo airport.    Why is the
19   Department of Health not requiring a one year

20   preconstruction data to be collected at the site?    I
21   would ask the Clean Air Branch to require on site
22   specific data collection before considering granting
                            Page 48
                           09-15 doh hrg.txt
23   the air permit.

24               I would like the Department of Health not to
25   approve the clean air permit until these issues can be


 1   resolved.    Thank you.
 2               THE HEARING OFFICER:    I just want to remind

 3   everybody, since it is getting later, that there is

 4   going to be a ten minute time limit for testimony.
 5               Next would be Bridget Rapoza.    Bridget

 6   Rapoza?   Not here?    Okay.

 7               Next would be Kendra Tidwell.

 8               KENDRA TIDWELL:    Hi, everybody.   Hi.   I live

 9   in Pahoa.    I don't live in Pepeekeo.
10               I went to Pahoa High School.    I graduated in

11   2005.   I went to UH Hilo, got my bachelor's degree in

12   communication.    And I don't know about chemicals, I
13   don't know about energy so much, I don't know about
14   power plants.    My degree is in communication.

15               I work at Island Naturals, and therefore I

16   feel I can testify on behalf of renewable energy,
17   because Island Naturals does support those things.
18               Anyway, at Island Naturals I do the
19   marketing, and I've really noticed how, over the past

20   four years since I've been working there, the whole
21   sustainable movement in food and in life alike has

22   exploded.

                               Page 49
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
23               And I'm so proud of the people of Hilo to be
24   out here supporting renewable energy, and be interested
25   in it and be learning about it, and be willing to work


 1   for it.   You guys are the hardworking ones of Hilo that

 2   want to be a part of that, and that's awesome.

 3               But the thing about marketing is things
 4   aren't always what they seem, and that's a tough lesson

 5   to learn.

 6               McDonald's sells all natural smoothies, and

 7   the word natural does not have anything going for it
 8   under the USDA.    Anybody can call something natural.

 9   So that's kind of scary.    Working for Island Naturals

10   is easy, because it is organic food.      Organic food is

11   certified.
12               So what I want to know is, how do you know I

13   support Hu Honua just because I'm wearing this?       I am a

14   marketer, and I can appear a certain way and say
15   certain stuff, and I might not even support it.       So I

16   hope everybody can kind of take what a company is
17   saying with a grain of salt, because they're going to
18   market that idea.    Thank you.

19               THE HEARING OFFICER:    Next would be Bruce
20   MacDuckston.

21               BRUCE MACDUCKSTON:    Good evening.   My name is
22   Bruce MacDuckston, M A C D U C K S T O N.
23               I live within breathing distance of the
                              Page 50
                        09-15 doh hrg.txt
24   proposed power plant.    I plan on living here for the

25   rest of my life.   I'm concerned about air quality for


 1   myself, for my children, and my grandchildren.
 2              I'm also concerned about air quality for my
 3   neighbors and for the people who are going to be

 4   working at the plant.    They're good people.    I like

 5   them, I know some of them personally, and I'm hoping
 6   for their best health.

 7              Hu Honua in its latest radio campaign states,

 8   and I'm going to quote this, "Hu Honua's emission

 9   control equipment will meet or exceed the toughest

10   state and federal clean air requirements."
11              I'm not quite sure what that means.     Is there

12   a minimum standard that they have to meet?      I don't

13   know.
14              Let me tell you, every morning, when I get up
15   and drive up Sugar Mill Road and turn left to go into

16   Hilo, if it's clear enough out in the distance, I can

17   see the vog and the pollution coming from the volcano.
18   We have no control over that.      This possible polluting
19   place, we do have control.    You have control.
20              Now, I've looked at the draft air permit, and

21   thank goodness you have engineers and scientists on
22   your staff, because I cannot make heads or tail out of

23   it.   Probably 99 percent of the people here don't know

                              Page 51
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt
24   what it means.
25             But your charge, your job is to protect us,


 1   and that's what I'm looking for you to do, is to make
 2   sure that everything Hu Honua is claiming is true, and

 3   to add additional requirements as necessary.

 4             Why are they resistant to an environmental
 5   impact study?    I don't know, but this is something that

 6   you can require, I believe.    Make them prove their case

 7   before you let them go.

 8             Thank you.
 9             THE HEARING OFFICER:      Next would be Claudia

10   Rohr.

11             CLAUDIA ROHR:    Hello.    My name is Claudia

12   Rohr, R O H R.
13             Somebody asked me to point out that renewable

14   energy, under our state law, requires that the power

15   producer is the farmer also.    And until Hu Honua signs
16   up to lease land and do its own plantations, under our

17   state law, it's not renewable energy.      Or it's not,
18   technically, renewable energy.      And I think that's in
19   the -- I'll write it to you.    But technically, it's

20   not.
21             So that's not the point today.      I've gotten a

22   headache reading all these applications and draft
23   permits, and trying to research it and understand it,
24   and I believe the problem starts with the fact that
                            Page 52
                        09-15 doh hrg.txt
25   this boiler was designed with the purpose of producing


 1   heat and steam for sugar processing.

 2             It is a very large boiler and power plant,
 3   and together with the boiler and turbines, is actually
 4   a 32 megawatt facility.    It was designed to combine all

 5   of the milling from five different sugarcane mills, the

 6   Wainaku plant, the Papaikou plant, Honomu, Hamakua.     Is
 7   that five?   Anyway, at Pepeekeo.   And they put in a lot

 8   of money to increase the size of the sugar processing

 9   portion and the power plant facility.

10             The power was an accessory of the sugar

11   processing, but they went together.    So when you're
12   burning something in the burning chamber and creating

13   steam to move those turbines and create power, you're

14   also sending it forward to be used in the sugar
15   processing, which was a highly technical process.    And
16   now what we have is a power plant that was designed for

17   a different purpose.

18             And there's something wrong with that power
19   plant part of the burning chamber or the boiler,
20   because it's producing NOx and -- carbon monoxide and
21   NOx at the same time.   One is produced when there's not

22   enough oxygen and one is produced when there's too much
23   oxygen.

24             So therefore, there is a leak somewhere or

                               Page 53
                       09-15 doh hrg.txt
25   some sort of technical flaw in this boiler, which you


 1   guys aren't supposed to have to worry about.   But

 2   because of that, there's a problem with certain
 3   critical pollutants.

 4             And I agree with Gary and others who say that

 5   we deserve continuous emissions monitoring, because
 6   there are people who are going to be living within a

 7   thousand feet of the stack.

 8             So the way this scheme works is that they

 9   decided to try to get under the limits of certain
10   permit requirements, which would have made them do an

11   EA, would have made them have more equipment, have more

12   oversight.

13             They're cheating on the permit by -- well,
14   it's not cheating; it's all well within the law, and

15   this is how you do it.

16             They say we're going to limit our emissions
17   down here, and we're going to do a special operational

18   design to guarantee that we never pollute.   So the
19   operational design in this case involves certain --
20   like, they're going to lower the combustion rate for

21   ten hours a day.
22             Well, if you do a certain -- if you want that

23   operational design to count towards reducing the PTE,
24   which is the limits that will kick in in the PSD permit
25   process, you have to be able to demonstrate that you
                            Page 54
                        09-15 doh hrg.txt


 1   can continuously monitor your emissions, and know that

 2   you can demonstrate that you're within the operational

 3   design limits.
 4             In this case, it's too complex.    First of
 5   all, they're getting wood from private parties who are

 6   land clearing.   This wood's going to be arriving on a

 7   truck.
 8             Somebody's required to look at logs on a

 9   truck that may have no branches and write down what

10   species they are, and then somebody has to figure out

11   what the burning, the heat value is of all this wood

12   that's coming in on trucks.
13             Well, it's going to be you guys, because you

14   get a good job, but I hope there's someone out there

15   who knows how to do this.   But it seems to me it's
16   really tough.
17             So it's a matter of record keeping, and

18   identifying the wood, and trying to calculate the heat

19   value.
20             And then they're going to have a continuous
21   monitoring device in terms of the weight of the wood
22   going into the boiler.   So as it sends it in, it keeps

23   a record, and it's going to keep a record for five
24   years rolling, so you can't cheat on that.

25             But who's going to really be able to

                              Page 55
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt


 1   calculate the heat value of this wood is wet, that wood
 2   isn't.    This is what kind of tree; we're not sure.      And

 3   even the wood chips that might come in, who's going to
 4   really know about what they are?

 5               So for everybody's health, and because this

 6   is a community -- and it's not people who are
 7   interested in the plant burning and those who aren't.

 8   It's about all of us having a good environment, too.

 9   We should be concerned with these continuous emissions

10   monitoring devices and make sure that they're
11   installed.

12               I think it's impossible to demonstrate

13   continuous compliance, because they won't be able to

14   accurately define the wood inputs.      And we have a
15   boiler that has a much larger capacity than what is

16   desirable.

17               I think the -- my issues have to do with the
18   fact that they're never going to be able to get a good

19   reading, even on the yearly tests.
20               There's five different changes that occur.
21   Startup, high combustion.    Then the period between high

22   combustion and low combustion, there is no modeling for
23   that.    Then there's the low combustion.    And all of

24   that, there's different -- again, you have --
25               The fatal flaw is not being able to

                              Page 56
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt


 1   accurately determine the heat value of this wood.      It's
 2   impossible to be accurate enough for the buffer that

 3   they provided us.    They provided a very small buffer

 4   for carbon monoxide, for CO, and they -- it's carbon
 5   monoxide, right?    Okay.    I get confused.
 6             Anyway, if the plant was just burning

 7   full-time, it would go way over 250 pounds per year --

 8   tons per year.    It only takes twenty minutes a day of a
 9   mistake to make it go over that amount, meaning if

10   somebody takes a break and they forget to turn it to

11   low combustion at the wrong moment, you know, hey,

12   right there you can be the cause of too much of

13   something.
14             So do you guys want to be blamed or do you

15   want to make this so that it's humanly possible to run

16   this plant?   I think you deserve a fighting chance, and
17   you don't deserve being blamed for something that
18   happens later.    They'll say, oh, they were lazy.    Oh,

19   they didn't do their job.

20             You know?    Let's not have that happen.    It's
21   not your -- it's not humanly possible for you guys to
22   get this exactly right without having continuous
23   emissions monitoring to refer to.      You're guessing, and

24   it's guesswork.    I don't think it really passes the
25   standard for allowing it to be used to reduce the PTE.

                                 Page 57
                          09-15 doh hrg.txt


 1              Thank you.
 2              THE HEARING OFFICER:     Next would be Bob
 3   Ferazzi.

 4              ROBERT FERAZZI:    Hi.   I'm Robert Ferazzi,
 5   F E R A Z Z I.

 6              I'm a resident of the Pepeekeo Gardens

 7   Association, and I'm up here to kind of stress the need
 8   for continuous local monitoring.      I think Honolulu is a

 9   little far away to see any impact of this power plant.

10              Also, in my community we're all on catchment.

11   I would like to see probably some pretests on catchment
12   for at least a year, and then a couple year follow-up,

13   to see if there's much change in the acidity of our

14   water.   I know we can't overcome the volcano, and

15   that's an issue, too, but we don't need any more local
16   acid in our water.

17              And also, I think you should probably read

18   the EPA permit.   I know that the EPA, in their
19   guidelines, their number one goal is to protect the

20   health of children.     And I don't think putting a power
21   plant in a residential, agricultural area has anything
22   to do with that statement.

23              Thank you.
24              THE HEARING OFFICER:     Next would be Rick

25   McQuain.

                               Page 58
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt


 1               RICK MCQUAIN:    My name is Rick McQuain.   I'm
 2   with Hu Honua.    Last name is M C Q U A I N.
 3               I couldn't resist coming up to just make a

 4   couple of points.

 5               Why do people talk about the plant at this
 6   location?    Well, when you want to do a power facility,
 7   one of the first things you look for is land that's

 8   properly zoned.    This site has been zoned for this kind

 9   of use for years.    There was an existing facility
10   there.   You know, why would I go, why would I go look

11   at virgin land?

12               Another point, there's been a lot made about

13   the whole question of monitoring.      I don't think people

14   have read carefully the requirements that are fully
15   within the permit draft right now.      It is not as simple

16   as some would make it.

17               You're not just doing one annual test and
18   saying, oh, that's good for the whole time.      There's
19   several parameters to be monitored on an ongoing basis.

20   You look at the permit limits, they're not written as

21   pounds per year.    They're pounds per hour.    You can't
22   figure that out just by doing a once a year test.
23               Another point, someone said the definition of
24   renewable energy requires that the party using the fuel

25   has to grow the fuel.    I don't know where they got that

                                 Page 59
                          09-15 doh hrg.txt


 1   definition from, but that's not the state definition

 2   that I'm very familiar with.
 3               Another point is, you know, anybody who's
 4   running a business, when you're making financial

 5   decisions on your business, what you look at is what do
 6   the rules require.

 7               Now, to some extent, yes, as a good neighbor,

 8   you're going to do a little more than the rules
 9   require, but you're not going to go crazy overboard.

10   You look at what the state rules require, you look at

11   what the federal rules require, you look at what the

12   county rules require.    You make sure your business is
13   in compliance with that.

14               That's what we at Hu Honua have been

15   attempting to do, is to be sure that we're fully in

16   compliance with every rule that is on the books that
17   impacts this operation.

18               You know, should we tear down the old boiler

19   and build a new boiler so that we can get lower
20   emission levels?    That's not a responsible business

21   decision for anybody to make.
22               Thank you.
23               THE HEARING OFFICER:    Next would be Gilbert

24   De Motta.
25               GILBERT DE MOTTA:   My name is Gilbert De

                               Page 60
                          09-15 doh hrg.txt


 1   Motta.    I'm born and raised at Pepeekeo, but I just

 2   moved to Hilo about five years ago to take care of my
 3   dad, but otherwise I used to live at Kulaimano.
 4               I lived at Pepeekeo all my life.     I was born

 5   and raised in Pepeekeo.    I used to live very near the

 6   mill.    I got adjusted to the noise, got adjusted to
 7   everything else.    And do you know, we got adjusted to
 8   the jake brakes of the buses -- I mean, the trucks.

 9               I believe that someone complained about jake

10   brakes.    You know, the jake brakes has -- I used to be
11   a tour driver after the plantation closed.       I worked

12   for the plantation.    And if you don't have jake brakes,

13   you can burn out your brakes.       They don't want that

14   jake noise at all.    But I believe in the mainland, what

15   they have, electric brakes, no jake brakes.
16               They move to paradise.     Learn how to live in

17   paradise.

18               You know, this out here, they claim that they
19   live near the mill.    Okay?   What I would make a
20   recommendation, before you make any decision, please go

21   up here and look at the community, how far away they

22   living.
23               I believe one of them took a picture that he
24   lives, from his living room, he took a picture of the
25   plant.    I found out that home is so far away in a hole

                               Page 61
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt


 1   that you cannot see the plant.
 2               You know, why come out here and lie?      Tell

 3   the truth.    Learn how to live in paradise.    So I hope
 4   they learn how to live in paradise.      You move to
 5   paradise, don't take away our aloha spirit.      I see

 6   we're losing our aloha spirit.     That's the sad part
 7   about it.

 8               So I hope you make a decision, and go out

 9   there and check before you make a decision.      Thank you
10   very much.

11               THE HEARING OFFICER:   At this time we're

12   going to be closing the hearing.     Is there anyone else

13   that would like to testify that has not so far?        This
14   will be your last chance.

15               Okay, if you can just come up and sign in

16   right after, please.

17               LORRAINE MENDOZA:   Aloha.   My name is
18   Lorraine Mendoza, and, like they say, they save the

19   best for the last, and I'm hoping that this is the last

20   and I'm the best.
21               There are many times here that, you know,

22   many citizens here and people who have opposed
23   projects.    And I just want to pose it to those that are
24   opposed to it that, you know, you moved into the

25   community, a community that established a plantation

                              Page 62
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt

 1   style life-style.
 2              And then there is this Hu Honua that wants to

 3   come in and do a renewable energy project that benefits
 4   everybody, and you look at it as not in my back yard,
 5   but sometimes we got to look that the shoe's on the

 6   other foot.

 7              We had established a community of Pepeekeo, a
 8   community that is -- that has created an identity that
 9   has lived by the values of the plantation.      And yet

10   when these subdivisions came about, people bought

11   property, and it was, like, are you the Hu Honua that
12   came into the community of Pepeekeo?     Are you the ones

13   that we are looking at that says not in my back yard?

14              But we never opposed any of the movements,

15   any of the subdivisions.    In fact, we communicate.      We

16   were very friendly.    We were accepting.
17              And now take a look at this.     The shoe is on

18   the other foot.    You don't want Hu Honua, but did we

19   ever treat the newcomers or the new people that bought
20   subdivisions or homes and their land the same way that
21   you're treating Hu Honua?

22              We gave you a chance.   We gave you -- we took

23   a risk.   Everything is a risk here.    We took a risk.
24   We didn't finger, we didn't fingerprint you or anything
25   like that.    But you are running Hu Honua through the

                              Page 63
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt

 1   mill on this, and I don't think that that's fair.

 2               I'm speaking on behalf of myself, as Lorraine
 3   Mendoza, not in affiliation with any other association

 4   or organizations that I'm affiliated with or involved
 5   with.   I'm entitled to my own opinions, and I feel very
 6   strongly that Hu Honua is not, is not to be pointed

 7   out.
 8               There is communication.   They do it in a nice

 9   way.

10               There is this young lady that said, oh, I'm
11   wearing this shirt; how do you know I'm not supportive?

12   Well, it works both ways.    We may be wearing the shirts

13   that we are, but how do you know that we really accept

14   all of you?
15               So please think about this.   The people and

16   the community members of Pepeekeo have gone through a

17   lot of changes.    They've been raised here, but their

18   style of doing it has been to communicate with
19   dialogue.

20               We don't want to change the culture.   We

21   don't want to change the identity of how we do things.
22   We want people to learn, and to learn to communicate,

23   and to be trusting, and if you have questions, to ask
24   them.
25               So think about this.   The shoe could be on

                              Page 64
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt

 1   the other foot.   Are you the Hu Honua that shouldn't be
 2   in the back end of Pepeekeo?
 3             Thank you.

 4             THE HEARING OFFICER:    Is there anybody else
 5   that would like to testify this evening that has not so
 6   far?

 7             Okay, I would like to thank everybody for

 8   participating in this hearing.    I would like to
 9   personally thank you for actually having respect for
10   both sides of the testimony up here, and not -- for

11   keeping it very orderly.

12             The public hearing is now concluded.      The
13   time is 8:21 p.m.   Thank you.

14               (Hearing concluded at 8:21 p.m.)









                             Page 65
                         09-15 doh hrg.txt

 1                      C E R T I F I C A T E
 2   STATE OF HAWAII        )
 3   COUNTY OF HAWAII       )
 4             I, Kathy Pearson, CSR, do hereby certify:

 5             That on Wednesday, the 15th of September,
     2010, commencing at 6:30 p.m., the above-mentioned
 6   proceedings were taken by me in machine shorthand and
     thereafter reduced to print under my supervision; that
 7   the foregoing represents, to the best of my ability, a
     true and correct transcript of the proceedings had in
 8   the foregoing matter.
 9             I further certify that I am not an attorney
     for any of the parties hereto, nor in any way
10   interested in the outcome of the cause named in the
12             DATED:     ___________________


14                        ___________________________________

15                        Kathy Pearson, CSR No. 313







                                Page 66

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