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2002 02 04 - FINANCE COMMITTEE Powered By Docstoc
               HELD IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBER, CITY HALL, 141 WEST 14th Street,
               NORTH VANCOUVER, B.C., ON MONDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 2002 at
               7:00 P.M.


COUNCIL MEMBERS                          STAFF MEMBERS

Mayor B.A. Sharp                         A.K. Tollstam, City Manager
Councillor W.J. Bell                     B.A. Hawkshaw, City Clerk
Councillor J.B. Braithwaite              S.E. Dowey, Deputy City Clerk
Councillor R.J. Fearnley                 T. Christie, Director of Finance
Councillor C.R. Keating                  I. Gordon, Deputy Director of Finance
Councillor D.R. Mussatto                 D. Cameron, Budget Analyst
Councillor B.W. Perrault                 B. Johnson, Manager, Financial Services
                                         A. Barrett, Finance Department
                                         F.A. Smith, Director, Community Development
                                         R.H. White, City Planner
                                         R. Shore, Director of Human Resources
                                         C. Turner, Director, Information Technology
                                         F. Caouette, Manager – Special Projects
                                         J. Laughlin, City Engineer
                                         B. Susak, Deputy City Engineer
                                         R. Bruckshaw, Purchasing Manager,
                                         P. Rowe, Supervisor, Engineering Operation
                                         Fire Chief R. Douglas
                                         Deputy Fire Chief B. Penman
                                         Supt. G. Tomlinson, O.I.C./RCMP
                                         D. Walker, Administrative Manager, R.C.M.P.
                                         M. MacFadyen, Manager, Lands Division

Chair:    Mayor Barbara A. Sharp

Re: 2002 Operating Budget – File: 1650-05-01

Mayor Sharp called the meeting to order at 7:13 p.m.

Moved by Councillor Braithwaite, seconded by Councillor Perrault

         THAT the meeting recess.
                                                       CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY

The meeting recessed at 7:14 p.m., and reconvened at 7:53 p.m., with the same
personnel present.

Mayor B.A. Sharp
Mr. Tollstam!
1.       Introduction – Mr. A. K. Tollstam, City Manager

         Thank you Your Worship. I just had pages and pages here but because of our
         time I am going to have to cut it back. Your Worship I just want to point out a
         couple items because Terry is going to be going over our budget and talking
         about it line by line or most of the major line items. Just want to point out some
         of the facts, the various facts that we are facing with this item and budget. When
         you look at our costs and this is the same for all over, whether it is the City of
         North Vancouver of West Vancouver. 70% of our costs is really in the form of
         labour and if you look at our labour rates for 2002 those have gone up by slightly
         over the rate of inflation or 2% and the budget has accounted for that. The other
         items Your Worship, I just want to put in, that if you look at our survey one of the
         items, some of the major items came out of the survey that public safety is the
         number one item and I would just like to point out even though it isn’t in our
         finance, it isn’t in our budget, we have put aside or the Finance Department, the
         Fire Department, they have put aside in last years budget which is going to spent
         now $750,000 for seismically fixing up the Firehall. That means that will be
         started in the next couple of months. And, also I gather the City is going to be
         ordering a brand new truck, a ladder truck, for the Fire Department and we have
         allocated over a $1million for that. That has been put in the budget and that has
         been put in the budget, that’s coming out of the various accounts.

         Your Worship one of the things that we are worried about, that everybody is
         worried about, and starting to creep into our budget now and that is the fact that
         some of the costs or some of the service levels are now being downloaded by
         other levels of government. We are not just talking about the cutbacks from the
         province recently but both levels of government. Those are starting to happen
         now. However, Your Worship, I just want to point out that there is some positive
         signs here that Council has approved, when Council approved the budget this
         year or part of it, one of the things is when you look at our, some of our major
         costs that the citizens are paying for, such as the water costs, the sewer, those
         costs we have been able to hold ….. So when you work out our taxes and Terry
         has various options for Council to look at, but even with all the various options
         when you factor in water, sewer and refuse is going up by just a nominal amount.
         We think, we are very confident our overall tax rate, the dollar amount that our
         citizens are going to pay is probably lower than either of our two north shore
         neighbours. So we are very, very proud of that.

         Your Worship, in closing I just want say that the future is bright for us even
         though we are going to be looking at some difficult issues for 2002 budget
         because some of the issues are starting to come on line. We have been
         fortunate this year that Harbourside Business Park, 30-40% of the businesses
         are built up so we are getting taxes from that, that is helping us. Also, the
         Council had approved and saw recently that Versatile is now starting to come on
         stream. We are not going to get the income now but that is going to bring money
         into the City coffers and also because of the sales that were launched for the
         Lower Lonsdale. Those are some positive aspects Your Worship and with that
         Your Worship if I can turn it over to Terry Christie.

Mayor Sharp
Mr. Christie!

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 2   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
2.       Recap Previous Finance Material and Balancing the City Operating Budget
         – Mr. T. Christie, Director of Finance

         Thank you Your Worship. I would like to just quickly begin by thanking a lot of
         staff in the City who have put a tremendous amount of effort and good work into
         this. That includes in every department, there are certain people, many people in
         those departments who contribute a great deal and particularly in my own
         department I would like to thank Isabel our Deputy Director; Debbie Cameron our
         Budget Analyst; and Aaron Barrett who helped put these 266 pages together.
         Thank you for letting me take that moment.

         There are 266 pages. I was going to go through each of them, one by one, but in
         the interests of time I will not. There is a lot of information here Your Worship
         and if I can take you to the Table of Contents, I am going to make a brief
         presentation using the old favourite, Power Point, because it is clear and
         succinct. The Table of Contents lays out your budget binder for you and I
         appreciate that there is a lot of material here. You will have an opportunity to go
         through it in more detail this evening and over the next few weeks we will be
         meeting again on February 19, 2002 to get in to much more detail, if you so wish.
         We can even do that tonight if you so wish. Referring to these pages, after my
         brief presentation, we are going to have Araceli Mallen from Ipsos-Reid give you
         a very brief overview of the survey they did and then the departments are going
         to make brief presentations on their departments and goals and
         accomplishments and performance measures.

         Your Worship in the past we have received feedback from Finance Committee on
         the process and we have heard that you wanted more detail, you wanted to talk
         about priorities and you wanted to see standardized presentations from the
         Agencies, Boards and Commissions. I think in November when they came
         forward you saw an excellent presentation in a very much standardized format. I
         think we have done all of these things here for you very well. You wanted us to
         sharpen our pencils, consider department reductions, explain expenditures and
         you want to question significant expenditures. We believe this package provides
         all of those opportunities. Going back for a few minutes to talk about where we
         started on the 24th we adopted a Revised Budget. On November 5th, oops sorry
         going back to September 24th we also talked about the calendar presentations to
         this committee over the next three/four months. We talked about the Operating
         Budget process and Objectives and they were adopted. On the 5th we adopted
         the Sewer, Water and Refuse rates for 2002, those bills have gone out and
         people are paying them now and as our City Manager mentioned the bottom line
         impact collectively on those utilities is virtually no increase.

         On November 19th we did something a little different, we advanced our Ten Year
         Capital Plan in the Fall of 2001, the plan for 2002 – 2011. That is the first year
         we have done that, that early. We have done it for several reasons; (a) there is
         no reason why we couldn’t , we wanted to get on with business and meet the
         needs of the community and this Council and that was one of the reasons we did
         that. It has turned out very well because we are proceeding on a lot of those
         projects that don’t all happen at once, of course. That plan was adopted on
         November 19th by Finance Committee.            It also came back to Council on
         November 26th with a complete and detailed report recommending that bylaws be
         brought forward on December 3rd, which is what happened. Again, with a report
         providing additional information and on December 10th Council gave fourth
         reading to the bylaws for that Ten Year Capital Plan.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 3   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
         On November 27th you heard presentations from the Agencies, Boards and
         Commissions and on January 7th you endorsed Council doing a public survey
         again because it is such an effective way of obtaining broad community input.
         On February 4th, tonight, I have talked about what we are going to cover off and
         the 19th, as I mentioned, we will be meeting again. We are also going to bring
         back the Ten Year Capital Plan and present you with some revisions to it. Based
         on our year-end results we are able to do that and we want to see if we can
         provide a little bit more funding for certain projects. On March 4th with the
         direction and agreement of this group and Council we will introduce the tax rate
         bylaws for the Operating Budget and, as well, the revised Ten Year Capital Plan.

         We are going to be looking at new items. Very briefly tonight Your Worship just
         to introduce you to them. Some of the departments will be speaking to them. Of
         course after the presentations there will be an opportunity for the public to make
         presentations as well. I would also like to point out, for the benefit of the public,
         there are packages up on the table at the back and we would invite any members
         of the audience to please get a copy of those packages, if they don’t have them

         Tonight, as well, we are hoping we will get a little bit of direction from you in
         terms of what you would like discussed on February 19th. So we are looking for
         some direction, if possible, this evening and we are looking for any questions. If
         we are not able to answer tonight, to prepare for them, and get you the answers
         back on February 19th.

         Talking about the numbers, what drives those numbers. Well Ken has certainly
         touched on one of the big items and that is the issue around contracting
         increases associated with all of our workforces. There is other information of
         course that drive the numbers, including the items you see here. A lot of these
         cost drivers we do not have much control of and we are trying to meet service
         level requirements that the public would like to see delivered. We do not have a
         policy for every single expenditure. We certainly have a lot of objectives, which
         we have talked about before and had you adopt. We do have policies around
         zero reserve funds and surplus. Our surplus policy was adopted this Fall and we
         do apply generally accepted budgeting principles, which include being somewhat
         conservative, although we are being less so. We have adopted an approach of
         pay as you go. We are very interested in sustainability in terms of building
         budgets that do not present huge problems for us in the future e.g. we try to
         avoid borrowing. We provide for infrastructure and equipment replacement.
         That is an approach and a policy that has done us very well and we try to provide
         as much as we can for the Capital Program. We are making progress there, of
         course, through the 1% special capital levy.

         Very briefly Your Worship, in terms of changes in the budget from 2001 to 2002
         we have laid them out on slide 14 here. The contract increases and there are
         some step increases as well built into that $479,000 figure. The contributions to
         the Library and the Recreation Commission account for an extra $111,000 but I
         would say that are mostly salary and wage related costs. We are looking at
         insurance increases this year. I am sure you are hearing about that in other
         ways. We have also had to provide for sick and severance this year, this is a
         new cost item, and it is essentially because we are getting some pressure from
         our auditors, who we listen to very carefully, to provide for this liability. We have
         recorded most of the liability but we need to beef it up a little bit so we have put in
         a provision in the Operating Budget this year, which we have not had to do in the

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 4   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
         The 1% Capital Levy, this is the third year of it out of a five year program …..
         there are decreases netting out to $120,000. There is no significant increase in
         the RCMP budget this year and this is good news because in the previous two
         years we have had to wrestle with a total of about $1.4million in cost increases
         because of salary and other cost increases. We did not get additional officers
         out of that. This year is good news, no significant change in the RCMP policing
         contract. We have estimated a vacancy rate of 3.3 members, we did that last
         year, and I will be clear and say to you that the Superintendent does have some
         concerns about this. Based on our experience we believe that we are on
         reasonably solid ground making this assumption.

         On the Revenue side again we have some good news for you. There is two
         figures on the slide, which have changed from the hard copy. The tax roll growth
         figure is $734,000; that is great, that’s about $300,000 more that it was the year
         before and it is because of development in Lower Lonsdale mostly. We have
         new properties on the tax roll because of development in the City. So that is a
         very nice boost for us this year and it is helping us big time.

         Our investment earnings are predicted to go down a little bit, no surprise there,
         given that interest rates are at an all time low. Other items you see there too we
         are looking at some declining building permit revenues and also grants in lieu.

         Initially we had a shortfall of $420,000 to wrestle with and we did wrestle with it.
         It was not easy to get that down. This was the original amount that we had to
         make up in order to get to Option A, which I will talk about in a moment, Option A
         being a tax rate increase of 2.8%. We are going to look at three options tonight,
         each of them includes the 1% Special Capital Levy and here they are; Option A
         2.8%, Option B 3.3% and Option C 3.8%. Essentially, in Option A e.g. at the
         2.8%, 1% of that is a provision for new items. 1% will generate $277,000 for the
         City. The new items list this year is very long and we will hear a little bit more
         about it later, as the departments make their presentations but the needs are
         very real but we cannot, we do not believe we can fund all of them. Option B is
         an additional ½%, roughly $137,000, additional money for new items. Option C
         is an additional 1% for new items, and that means that we would be providing
         $554,000 which is equivalent to a 2% tax rate increase for the new items, which
         total around $1million, is the total of the list. We don’t believe we can fund all of

         In its current form this budget does not provide for any estimated impacts arising
         out of the recent provincial government restructuring announcements and we will
         be reporting back to Council on those matters in the near future. Your Worship,
         in terms of how we compare to other municipalities, you can see the chart there.
         Several of these have completed their budgets and I think that you can see that
         we compare reasonably favourably. Now one thing I point out looking at these
         other local governments is that in most situations, and I don’t have a note of it
         with me, they have utility increases that would be on top of these percentages.
         As I said before, we do not have a utility increase, net, when you look at all three

         In terms of developing our Five Year model these are the assumptions we are
         going to make, which are similar to what we have done in the past, we will
         assume that General Revenue increases by 1.5% and General Expenditures by
         2.2% and any shortfalls will be funded through tax rate increases.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 5   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
         Last year we predicted a 3.9% tax rate increase. This year we are showing you
         three options, the lowest of which is 2.8% going to 3.8%. We are happy that we
         are able to stand here and talk about this and present this because we think this
         is a favourable budget this year. For example if we went with the 2.8% rate
         increase the impact on a blended average residential home, and there is no such
         thing, but it is one of the best ways to talk about it, would equate to about $30.
         Combined with basically a 0% increase in sewer, water, refuse and recycling
         costs the bottom line impact on that home is about 2% higher cost that the year
         before. You have to factor out any market fluctuations above or below the
         average, which is done in presenting these figures. We think that something
         between 2.8% and 3.8% will deal with the challenges we are facing this year and
         will also put us in a position to deal with challenges in the future, although the
         future is very much unknown. We think that this is a good base in any event.
         That concludes my presentation this evening Your Worship. I have an
         attachment to these sets of slides to Attachment 2. I am not going to go through
         them. They are a summarization of the operational funding objectives which
         were adopted last Fall as well as the capital funding objectives on slides 33,34
         and 35. I am not going to go through them, I would be pleased to answer
         questions. Your Worship, unless there are questions I would like to turn this over
         to Ms. Araceli Mallen but I would be most happy to answer any questions before
         that if you wish at this time.

Mayor Sharp
I have a couple of member of Council. Councillor Perrault!

Councillor B.W. Perrault
Yes, through the Chair. Terry, you made a statement “we do not have utility increases
yet” and I wonder if you would clarify what you mean by that and explain that please?

Mr. T. Christie, Director of Finance
Your Worship, based on our utility models we are predicting that we can hold utility
increases to a very minimal amounts for the next, 2003, for next year. That is because
the sewer parcel tax is falling away and that is what is helping us attain that. However,
in 2004 our sewer parcel tax, because it will then be zero we will be looking at increases
for the utilities. Remember that a lot of those utility costs are driven, to a large degree,
by the charges we receive through the GVRD.

Councillor Perrault
Just for the benefit of the listening audience would you define what you mean by utilities.

Mr. Christie
Yes, Your Worship, I am talking sewer services, water services, refuse services and
recycling services and collectively I am referring to them as utilities.

Councillor Perrault
Thank you.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Braithwaite!

Councillor J.B. Braithwaite
Thank you Your Worship, through you to Terry. You indicate a 2.8% tax rate increase is
approximately $30 on an average residential?

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 6   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Mr. Christie
That is correct.

Councillor Braithwaite
Could you give us a figure for 3.3%?

Mr. Christie
Yes Your Worship, I can. 3.3%, Your Worship, you are looking at a $35 increase. For
that blend a …. 1% increase is about equal to $10 so 3.3%, another half percent, would
be an extra $5 from $30 to $35.

Councillor Braithwaite
Okay. I guess the other question would be, you have the three tax rates here but only
have one in terms of what the

Mr. Christie
Actually Your Worship if I could take you to pages 30 and 31 in the book, that is what I
was reading from, and page 30 shows you the 3.3% impact for three typical types of
homes in the City. Page 31 shows you the 3.8% option for those same three typical
homes in the City.

Mayor Sharp
Okay Councillor Braithwaite?

Councillor Braithwaite
I am looking at that page but I don’t follow. 3.8% change but

Mr. Christie

Councillor Braithwaite
Where is the actual amount?

Mr. Christie
Your Worship, on page 31 for the blended average residential home on line 2 where it
says taxes 1% equals $10, going to the right hand, second figure from the right hand it
says change $40. So that is the tax impact of a 3.8% increase would be $40.

Councillor Braithwaite
Thank you.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Mussatto!

Councillor D.R. Mussatto
Thank you very much Your Worship. Just very quickly through you to Terry. Terry, a
1% tax increase equals $277,000 increase.

Mr. Christie
Your Worship that is correct.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 7   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Councillor Mussatto
Now, I saw that you had some figures up there with regards to other tax rate increases in
other municipalities and I saw the District but at 6. something odd that they were looking
at, not that they confirmed, but they were looking at. Is it fair to say that a 1% tax
increase in the District because of their single family, their mythical single family home,
is probably worth more than the City’s, is probably worth more than the City’s. Is 1%
would be a higher increase than 1% in the City?

Mr. Christie
I would guess that Your Worship. Not certain, I could confirm that for you.

Councillor Mussatto
Thank you very much.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Braithwaite!

Councillor Braithwaite

Mayor Sharp
Please proceed Mr. Christie.

Mr. Christie
Your Worship in this event I will turn it over to Ms. Araceli Mallen from Ipsos-Reid.
Before I do that though I have a question for Araceli here. Araceli if you would like to
join me here. Have a look at the slide and give us an answer now.

4.       Ipsos-Reid Survey review – Ms. Araceli Mallen

         It is my pleasure to be here tonight to present the results from the Corporate
         Budget Planning Survey that conducted on behalf of you guys early January and
         I understand that you have received a copy of the report so I am going to give
         you a fairly quick overview of the survey findings and in some cases where there
         is quite detailed reports I will refer you to the pages but I think in the interests of
         time I will spend 6 to 7 minutes and take questions afterwards.

         I guess overall, as I noted in the report, the picture painted by the survey is very
         positive. Overall your residents are satisfied with the programs and services
         provided by the municipal government. They see the value in the programs and
         services they receive from their local government. Looking back, and what I will
         do, where it is appropriate, is compare this years survey results with the study
         that we did, this time, two years ago and I will compare what the survey results
         have done; have the increased, decreased or basically stayed the same.

         Overall, just to give you some numbers here, in terms of satisfaction and we
         basically asked people how satisfied are you with your municipal government.
         We have got 76% who say they are satisfied, which is a fairly high number.
         Among them we have got 43% who say they are very satisfied and as some of
         you know here we did a study with the GVRD and all twenty-two municipalities
         and the overall satisfaction score is fairly comparable to what the GVRD
         residents are saying. When you look at the very satisfied it is much more intense
         within the City compared to the overall GVRD average results. I think it was 16%
         in the overall GVRD who said they were very satisfied compared to your 43%, so
         overall a very positive picture there.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 8   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
         In terms of the tax dollars that they, whether or not they think they’ve got good
         value or poor value, you have got 84% of your residents who say that they
         received good value for their tax dollars. Again, a fairly positive picture there.

         Overall what we have found the satisfaction with services are fairly consistent
         across the programs and services that we looked at and I will go through it in a
         little more detail. As far as the importance placed on programs and services City
         residents, and this isn’t surprising, this is consistent when we do research with
         other municipalities, people here are concerned with the nuts and bolts. They
         are concerned about fire and policing, parks and recreational facilities, and less
         so in the softer sort of programs and if I can just refresh, refer you to page 47 of
         the report. You have police and fire protection as sort of the top core issues, in
         terms of programs and services, that are important and, again this is fairly
         consistent with what we have found with other municipalities.

         As far as how the City is performing, relative to these programs and services that
         we looked at, overall the City is doing well across the board. We found in most
         cases satisfaction has either remained the same or has gone up and they have
         marginally gone up so the results aren’t statistically significant but at least they
         are moving in the right direction.

         Transportation came up quite a bit earlier and true enough transportation is the
         number one concern among your residents here. It is not mentioned as highly
         as it is within the GVRD but nonetheless transportation is what people care about
         the most and as far as transportation issues are concerned; what people really
         care about are traffic congestion, lack of public transit, which are within the
         municipalities control and that is what we found when we looked across the
         GVRD as well.

         Crime is the number two concern here and again that is consistent with what we
         have found.

         Just going back to transportation, it is number one but it has also gone up 7
         percentage points in terms of what is on the public agenda. So that is definitely
         something that will require attention.

         When we look at fiscal management, residents have a fairly balanced view when
         it comes to the fiscal management as far as the options that are available or that
         were provided to them. It seems and, again, it is consistent with what residents
         have told us; they trust the City and there more permissive about tax increase
         and when we compare these results to other municipalities surveys that we have
         done it is a little bit higher here in terms of allowing municipalities some leeway
         as fare a fiscal options and with regards specifically to tax increase.

         We provided them with a number of options and generally speaking people
         would rather see reductions in certain service areas than across the board.
         People sort of think that they might be affected if you look at, reducing or
         eliminating services, across the board on an equal basis. So when you look at
         those two service areas, two fiscal options rather, people would rather see select
         cuts in some services. When you look at where tax increase falls into, generally
         speaking, when you compare it with service reductions or user fees or a mixture
         of property tax increase and service reductions. Property tax increase relative to
         those is not a hugely positive option for your residents.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 9   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
         If you compare it with the other options there people are most likely to care
         about, they are most likely to choose (break in tape) a fairly positive response
         with regards to that.

         I am just going to back up a little bit here and refer you to page 52 of the report
         and before I give the results from what the tax increase are I will just go through
         in a little bit detail what public reaction is when asked “how important are these
         services to you and how satisfied are you to these services”. As I mentioned
         earlier, nuts and bolts services seem to be forefront on the public agenda, which
         again isn’t too surprising. Satisfaction level across the board has gone up a little
         bit but what is important to look at is how these programs and services are doing
         relative to the importance placed on them. If you look at the gaps between
         where the red star is and where the blue bar ends the bigger the gap the bigger
         the difference between people satisfaction and importance placed on them. And
         just quickly fire protection, as a core issue, as something that is important to
         people. It is high up there in terms of meetings and people satisfaction. Policing
         which is the number one, most important issue, for City residents, there is quite a
         gap there between how important it is to them and how that department is
         performing. Library, it is important to people and there is some gap there with
         performance. Again, I know you have received the report so I won’t go through it
         in detail and if you have any questions I can take them afterwards.

         To continue back to the tax increase that we looked at, as an overall option to
         provided to people it wasn’t that popular but once we told residents, and again
         we did the exact same thing two years ago, support for a tax increase was fairly
         high and overall, if you refer to page 58, this chart here compares results from
         the 2000 survey and also gives you the percentage of residents who are willing
         to pay tax increase within that certain amount. Overall we had 89% of City
         residents willing to pay a 1% tax increase and this a 7point increase from two
         years ago. When it comes to a 3% tax increase we had 72% who say that they
         would be willing to pay a tax increase. Again, that is 9-point increase from last
         time. And when it comes to 5% increase support is at 41% compared to 30%
         last year and that is an 11point increase.

         These results are fairly consistent with the value people think they get for their
         tax dollars, the satisfaction they have with the municipal government and it is the
         trust that they have in you that these numbers are, I think, higher than what we
         see in other municipalities.

         I know I went through that very quickly, does anybody have any questions?

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Mussatto!

Councillor Mussatto
Through you Your Worship. Can you just tell me about the part they like the municipal
government and how well they are doing again.

Ms. Mallen
We bold and highlight. When we did the GVRD survey the results were consistent with
what we did with your municipality. We did a press release but we didn’t look at City of
North Vancouver, District, West Vancouver because of sample size but directionally
even in that survey, your residents were on average more satisfied than the GVRD

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 10   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Councillor Mussatto
Thank you.

Ms. Mallen
It is nice to be delivering good news.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Bell!

Councillor W.J. Bell
Yes Your Worship, thank you. When we talk about page 52, you are saying the
difference between satisfaction and importance would a natural conclusion being that
perhaps, whether it’s a huge gap, that we should be funding that more?

Ms. Mallen
I think what to look at on page 52, generally speaking what you find in something like
this is core service area satisfaction tends to be lower because it is important them, their
expectations are higher. When you look at the gap there I would focus on the top seven
important issues but to answer your question yes.

Councillor Bell
So in fact enforcing bylaw regulations where they are minus two, in fact, we are probably
funding that too much then? Sorry Bruce.

Ms. Mallen
There is two things there

Councillor Bell
In the perception of the people.

Ms. Mallen
Absolutely. It is not important to people and those who gave a satisfaction score said,
well its fine. But again, it is not as important to them relative to the other issues we
looked at.

Councillor Bell
Thank you.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Keating!

Councillor C.R. Keating
Thank you very much Your Worship. To follow -up a bit in the response Ms. Mallen
gave to Councillor Bell’s question. You suggested just a moment ago, that really this
chart on page 52 which, Councillor Bell was looking at, has been ranked in some way to
put, what you describe as core services at the top, was that a conscious attempt to do
that and were these questions asked in the phone survey in this order?

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 11   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Ms. Mallen
No. All these items were randomly presented to the respondent. It is a computer
generated thing where if I called you it would come up in this order and I call the next
person and the second item would come up first, and the next person the third item
would come up first and so on and so forth. The reason for presenting, if we can just go
back to page 47, we ranked that chart based on importance and if you flip to page 50
then we ranked people satisfaction, that chart is based on degree of satisfaction with
each service. So what we have done on page 52 is to give you, it is almost easier for
the reader to say okay, well you can see the gap between the star and blue chart, but
what is important to people, so from that point of view we ranked it based on importance.

Councillor Keating
Just to clarify Your Worship through you to Ms. Mallen. This is, when you say core
services, that’s in the mind of the respondents that survey themselves.

Ms. Mallen
That’s right.

Councillor Keating
Thank you.

Mayor Sharp
Just a quick question then, just to look at page 52, e.g. Museum, Theatre and Galleries,
Playgrounds and sports fields are pretty satisfactory with the general population out

Ms. Mallen
That’s right.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you. Are there any other questions?

Mr. Christie
Your Worship, now we are going to have the presentations by the various departments
starting with Engineering, followed by Community Development. Just one more thing,
Your Worship. I wanted to say on that survey, I think something important to note is that
we surveyed 300 people, those are probably 300 different people than we surveyed the
year before and the year before that. It is kind of interesting that something to recall.

5.       Department Presentations

         (a)      Engineering Parks & Environment – Mr. J. Laughlin, City Engineer

                  You have seen our Mission Statement before; emphasizes safe and
                  healthy livable City. Our department is divided up into 16 core programs;
                  transportation, streets, streetscape, utilities which you heard tonight
                  involves water, sewer, drainage, solid waste (which includes recycling
                  and yard trimmings), design survey, planning and management of
                  infrastructure, operations (which includes operations, building
                  maintenance and fleet management), development of district energy,
                  parks, environment, cemetery (which we run as a separate and distinct
                  function), then of course administration which serves all our core
                  programs. Your Worship you should have received in your package this
                  past week a profile document, which outlines all those sixteen programs.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 12   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
                  These are some, more notable projects, we completed in 2001;
                  Moodyville Park completed with playground upgrades and interpretative
                  signage, Jack Loucks Court, Kings Mill Walk in conjunction with the
                  Harbourside Business Park, Mosquito Creek Phase II is completed along
                  with the Lower Level Bike Path, and our Streets renewal program
                  completed several projects last year, including the Lower Lonsdale street
                  paving, West 23rd Street and Forbes Avenue.

                  Our 2002 program goals include; City wide parking and traffic calming
                  program, St. Andrew’s Park which involves complete redesign and
                  redevelopment, the Trans Canada Trail Pavilion which will enable
                  partnership opportunities with the First Nations, Wagg and Mission Creek
                  trail systems will be redesigned and combined as a parks and
                  environment initiative, and a Best Management Practices Manual for
                  Environmental Stewardship within our operations.

                  Examples of performance measures we are undertaking, going to plan to
                  undertake this year, include; lane/km of commercial lane paving
                  completed, lane/km street cleaning accomplished, area costs of park
                  maintenance, number of sidewalk trip hazards repaired, and we are also
                  doing a more intensive job monitoring vandalism costs.

                  If we take a look at overall budget in our department, the total City
                  Operating Budget is almost $39million and our department is just over
                  $6million, comprising 15½% of the Operating Budget. It is important to
                  note that how operating budgets are impacted by new inventory added to
                  our infrastructure, which we describe as two simple categories; expanded
                  and improved inventory, or brand new infrastructure.

                  Expanded and improved infrastructure examples are; Moodyville,
                  Sunrise, Kinsmen washroom etc. and you see the value of the capital
                  investment on the right.

                  New infrastructure added in 2001 include; Kings Mill Walk, Jack Loucks
                  Court as substantial cost, Mosquito Creek Trail, and the soon to be
                  finished artificial turf field. Just that new infrastructure asset value comes
                  to about $4.5million and our projected maintenance costs is just over
                  $170,000. This results in new operating costs item for us in 2002.

                  Also, Council should be aware that coming on stream in 2003 we have
                  those other projects that we hope to complete this year. Those result in
                  maintenance costs for next year and in future years we are looking at a
                  multi-use sports park facility. If Versatile goes ahead as we expect they
                  will be lots of public use areas such as; piers, outdoor plazas and, of
                  course, internal road system.

                  Our primary goal, all this maintenance requires, all this capital art, rather
                  requires maintenance and our primary goal is to achieve a sustainable
                  City through sustainable infrastructure. That is the end of my overview
                  Your Worship. I can take questions.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Bell!

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 13   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Councillor Bell
Yes thank you Your Worship. I guess I am interested in comparing today with ten years
ago, just putting it into my own perspective, because I remember being on Council for
about the first four years and of the one or maybe two infrastructure things being brought
on stream. Now, it’s wonderful, its great the City is looking better and better all the time
but you are now talking about six, seven projects a year. Do you have indication, and I
know it is before your time, of what is that impact proportionately on the operating
budget? You made mention to it, but how does that compare to the increases in the
past when we were only bringing on one or two projects?

Mr. Laughlin
Your Worship, I can’t give you exact numbers but it is considerable. The past year or
two we have been bringing on six or seven new projects a year. That is why that
number I showed you $171,000, it is considerable, to be added to our operation budget.
I will tell you we are slowing down a bit. We have only got on our boards about four
parks projects e.g. for 2002 and while we develop and go through the public involvement
program for additional for 2003. I don’t have numbers for you but it is considerable.

Councillor Bell
Through you Your Worship, I guess my concern is, we have requested a couple of
times, we have addressed the capital gap with that 1%, you know the thing that Terry
brought forward two, three years ago, increasing the capital levy by 1%. It would appear
that we may be, with all these new infrastructures coming on board, in the capital
projects we may be facing an operating gap at some point. Has Engineering
Department given that some type of consideration on how we are going to be able to
handle that, particularly with some fairly significant projects, as you pointed out, in the
Versatile area where we are going to have to start paying for maintenance and what
have you?

Mr. Laughlin
Through Your Worship, for this year this is what you are saying, is that, a requested
increased in our operating budget. It is our job to make sure that we bring to Council
the full impacts of any new projects. For instance, those in 2002, we will have to bring
you the operational impact of bringing those on stream. Council needs to be aware of
that and so on for 2003 and in the future.

Councillor Bell
Your Worship, it just seems that is one of the problems of, the thing that I can’t ever
understand is, we get all these new developments into place and there is extra taxation.
I guess that is one of the things eats that extra money up.

Mr. Laughlin
That is correct Your Worship.

Councillor Bell
Thank you Your Worship.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Keating!

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 14   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Councillor Keating
Thank you very much Your Worship. My first question Your Worship I guess is about
performance measurements which, I think, or performance measures, which I think are
good things to have in the budget process. Earlier we talked, Your Worship, about cost
drivers within the budget process and I know here on page 68 of the big blue binder that
we have some performance measures that seem to me, Your Worship, to be built, to
build in cost drivers themselves. For instance, when we take a look at performance
measures on commercial lane paving we have lane/km of asphalt paving completed.
Which is to say that you are measuring yourself in the ability to lay more pavement.
Similarly, when you talk about sidewalk improvements it’s the ability to have new
sidewalk installations. I guess what I find missing here Your Worship, is that, that would
be for me, a good performance measure so long as I found somewhere in here some
transparent mechanism by which we could measure the need, in certain cases, for these
sorts of things. I just give an example which is neither a sidewalk nor a lane but a
section of road I drive on a fairly regular basis; Westview Drive, 26th Street to Boundary. I
have to say I was kind of shocked when I saw it here because it seems to me a very
good road. I have got a truck Your Worship, its kind of old, and I feel every bump and I
haven’t noticed one on that road. I am sort of curious to know why it is there and I don’t
want to get every year into the budget making process, Your Worship, and have a to and
fro among Council members about which three blocks of pavement need to redone, but I
do want to have Your Worship something which says; here is a transparent measure
that any member of Council can hold up and there is an analysis done that is there, we
know what needs to be done. Such that we don’t have a system where there only
performance measures are amount of new pavement or amount of new sidewalk, which
seems to me divorced from that kind of accountability that we know it needs to be done,
is a built in driver, Your Worship. I was just wondering if Mr. Laughlin could reflect on

Mr. Laughlin
Through Your Worship, generally speaking, the amount of road that would be paved,
and the amount of sidewalk that we put in, is limited by our capital program. We get you
authorization for that. What we intend to measure here is how well we do that. What
does it cost us to put down a lane/km of asphalt versus last year? Taking into account
cost of living, we like to keep monitoring those costs, we don’t get too out of hand. The
same with, when we install sidewalk. What does it cost to put in say a km of sidewalk,
so what we are measuring is our ability to keep those costs down and be efficient with
what we do. In terms of, I think where you are going with this is how much it goes down
each year on say a ten year program, is contained in our capital program.

Councillor Keating
I guess where I am going Your Worship, is a performance measure which allows us to
see that there is some sort of standard by which we measure, Your Worship, why things
need replacing rather than simply saying that amount replaced and the cost per
kilometre, or per metre of amount, replaced as a performance measure. I think it just
needs to be added to that performance measure Your Worship.

Mr. Laughlin
Through Your Worship, we do have a system called Pavement Management System,
which examines all our roads and puts them in an order of priority. What should be
repaired, or rehabilitated first. We can bring you that more detailed data if you wish.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 15   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Councillor Keating
Thank you Your Worship. Another question Your Worship. That is, it is related to the
question of new infrastructure maintenance, which Mr. Laughlin referred to a moment
ago. I notice in the other white binder that the Engineering Department provided that we
talk about, there is a discussion on page 6 of tab 3, about the kinds of things that are
being installed. In certain instances it says here “old style wooden curbing is replaced
with new concrete curbing gutters”. I am wondering whether or not Your Worship that
there has been any discussion of whether or not the old style is actually more
economically sustainable in terms of maintenance for, and I am not sure whether that is
the case, or more environmentally sustainable, which is another one of the goals we see
up there as well. I am curious, if we are going around replacing wooden curbing, is it
cheaper to maintain in the long term? Is concrete curbing cheaper to maintain in the
long term or is wooden curbing cheaper and is concrete curbing as environmentally
sensitive as wooden curbing? If there is any difference.

Mr. Laughlin
Through Your Worship, I would have to come back to Council with those kinds of details.
I don’t know of any municipality who is putting in wood curbing gutter anymore, for a lot
of good reasons. It has a much shorter life. I hesitate to say, I’m afraid that in the past,
some cities have actually installed creosote timbers in curbing gutter situations of long
ago and of course we wouldn’t subscribe to that anymore.

Councillor Keating
Thank you, I was just thinking in terms of storm water, ground retention of storm water,
in that regard Your Worship, but it may not work. Thank you.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Mussatto!

Councillor Mussatto
Thank you Your Worship, just a couple of questions that came to my mind here. Mr.
Laughlin, you mentioned that the Pavement Management System for replacing roads
and doing some kind of analysis, how do we do it for sidewalks? How do we determine
which sidewalks are new or where they should go and where they shouldn’t go?

Mr. Laughlin
Sidewalks Your Worship is based on a combination of two things. It is a report of trip
hazards and for the most part a visual check.

Councillor Mussatto
Through you Your Worship. How about for new sidewalks? How do we determine
where new ones are going to go and is there a ranking system for those types of things?
I notice we do install new sidewalks. I noticed there is one going in on West First Street
down by Home Hardware there. Is there a system to determine whether that should that
be done over something on the Third Street Hill for example?

Mr. Laughlin
Through Your Worship. We have a master list of deficient areas, which is driven, for the
most part, by public demand.

Councillor Mussatto
Public demand.

Mr. Laughlin
Or if we foresee a demand area, but primarily public demand will dictate what goes first.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 16   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Councillor Mussatto
Just one last question Your Worship. Thank you for that. I notice here that there is new
projects to be funded in 2002 and I just see one here; Queensbury Avenue, Third Street
to Keith Road. When you do that, do you factor in any other types of things like
anticipated use, future use, because I now the street is not as used as it used to be in
the past. Do you give any ideas about maybe reducing one lane for pedestrians or for
street trees or something like that?

Mr. Laughlin
Through Your Worship, yes we do. As much as we can in our projects we involve public
consultation methods and we receive feedback on just those kinds of needs and

Councillor Mussatto
Would you have done something like that at Queensbury area?

Mr. Laughlin
Can’t confirm whether we have or not.

Councillor Mussatto
Maybe I can find that out later.

Mr. Laughlin
I can take a note on that.

Councillor Mussatto
Thank you very much Your Worship.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you very much Mr. Laughlin. Mr. Smith!

         (b)      Community Development – Mr. F.A. Smith, Director, Community

                  Your Worship and member of the Finance Committee. We are asked to
                  review accomplishments, goals and objectives for the department and
                  performance measures for the department, as well. I am just going to go
                  through these very quickly.

                  In terms of accomplishments for the past year or so, implementing an
                  agreement for Animal Control Services, that is up and running now.
                  Establishing the North Shore Inter-Municipal Business Licensing Scheme,
                  which is up and running and upgraded Permit Plan, the database system
                  which is up and running. That is Phase I, which is up and running now
                  and moving to Phase II some time this year.

                  In 2001 we handled a higher than usual number of building permits and
                  construction activity, finalized development on sites 4 and 6 in Lower
                  Lonsdale. Acquired the apartment building on Block 62 that is just next
                  door us. Finalized the tri-municipal agreement for the North and West
                  Vancouver Emergency Program space in Gerry Brewer Building. Finally,
                  thanks to Margot’s help we were able to finally conclude that negotiation.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 17   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
                  Produce the first draft of the OCP and, of course, work continues on that
                  throughout this year, a good part of this year, with further iterations of that
                  plan. Completed a number of significant planning studies as well such
                  as; Substance Abuse, Marine Drive Corridor Study and others that you
                  have probably saw in the year end report from Richard White, or the most
                  recent report that was considered at Council last week on a review of
                  2001 and our plans for 2002.

                  Our Community Development goals and objectives for this year: updating
                  various regulatory bylaws, building bylaw, business licence bylaw.
                  Revising some of our administrative processes, continue to work on
                  completion of Site 5, Lower Lonsdale. Preparing Sites 1 and 2 for
                  marketing, Council gave the go ahead on that in January, last month.
                  Developing a homeless shelter and the animal shelter and I should just
                  clarify here, although those are co-located on this page it does not mean
                  that they will be co-located in actual address. Staff are examining now
                  possible locations for an animal shelter. We are looking at a number of
                  locations in the City. Finally, a review of the community facility tenancy
                  policy, something the Lands Division will be doing, as well.

                  Finally, in terms of those objectives for this year, processing of the
                  Versatile Lands development applications.     We expect to see those
                  coming in fairly shortly. Preparing the Lonsdale Recreation Centre
                  Master Plan that would be ongoing this year. Finalizing the OCP and
                  continuing the work on the Lower Lonsdale Community Centre. Of
                  course, as work on Site 5 progresses so does work on the Lower
                  Lonsdale Community Centre on the same site.

                  Touching on performance measures. Right now the department uses
                  these general performance measures and they involve Council to a very
                  large degree; our Annual Report, which comes in late in each year,
                  summing up what we have accomplished, in that year; our Annual Work
                  program with semi-annual review and updates, Council looked at that just
                  last Monday night and gave us a go ahead with that program. Monthly
                  Development Activity Report, which Council sees monthly, but most
                  recently have seen the summary for the whole of 2001. Constant
                  monitoring by Council and committees of something like 250 reports per
                  year from the department. Almost all of those come through Council and
                  certainly all of them go through the committees and Council as well.
                  Performance monitoring through the budget process and our revenues
                  and expenditures, whether we are meeting projected targets in that area
                  as well.

                  Certainly one of the questions you probably would like to pursue or an
                  issue that we would like to pursue on the 19th is what other performance
                  measures would Council find useful from the department, such as; user
                  satisfaction surveys. That is talking to customers and the general public.
                  We do know who we specifically issued permits to e.g. in licences, so we
                  could contact them and get feedback on user satisfaction. Application
                  processing goals. We could look at success rates with applications and
                  the time it takes to process applications as well. We could look at
                  revenue goals, such as tax based growth. We saw this evening that Mr.
                  Christie mentioned it was something over $700,000 in tax base growth,
                  coming on stream this year, which Council would have seen those
                  projects probably through rezonings in the last one to two years.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 18   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
                  They are now on the assessment roll and earning taxes. The other goals
                  possible: employment growth, economic growth, and social equity goals.
                  Those are some things we could pursue if Council was of a mind to have
                  the department use those as a yardstick for performance measures as

                  Your Worship, just in general summary of the numbers, and I know we
                  will go into further detail on the 19th as well. The department is basically
                  about the same as last year. We are going up slightly in expenditures,
                  just over 3%, 3.4% perhaps, and that is mainly due to the settlement
                  increases and the pay grade increases because our department, largely
                  in terms of expenditure, it is staff personnel. When there are increases, in
                  that respect, they are the ones that impact our budget in the most
                  significant way. Expenditures, I will check on this, but I think the slide you
                  saw earlier in the presentation has now been updated. There was a
                  shortfall shown under Permits and Licences revenue of, I think, $211,000.
                  I don’t think that is as current as our numbers. I think we have got that
                  down to about $88,000 because the permits, projected for this year, the
                  construction value is less than last year. Last year we had $70million,
                  which was, I believe, an all time high if you don’t correct for inflation. We
                  don’t expect to do that again this year. We are looking at something
                  around $54.5million projected. Next year and the years following, as Mr.
                  Christie said, things are looking bright. We do have certainly the rest of
                  Harbourside, Lower Lonsdale and the Shipyard site. So with that Your
                  Worship I will conclude my part of the presentation.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you. Councillor Fearnley!

Councillor Fearnley
Yes. You had some questions re performance measures and I gather you don’t want us
to answer those now. Will we be getting those in a questionnaire, and when?

Mr. Smith
Your Worship what I am suggesting is that the most meaningful performance
measurements for Council are the ones that probably you are going to ask for. We don’t
want two dozen of them, I’m sure you don’t, but if for example each one of you had a
specific performance measure you would like to see and that was seven, that would
likely be something of an ideal number. Us knowing you wanted to see them and you
having chosen your particular favourite. A questionnaire certainly is a potential as one of

Councillor Fearnley
No, I mean you asked a specific question up there and I am just wondering how you are
going to want us to answer it because it went by rather quickly.

Mr. Smith
Okay, I think on the 19th if you have thought about it, I know there is a lot of information
to go through, but if you look through our information and look through the type of
performance measures we use right now, that’s the Council reports, the budget. We
are suggesting to you, if you have a particular 1, 2 or 3 items that you would find useful,
because it does take a lot to time to work on performance measures and we don’t want
to spend time working on performance measures that aren’t meaningful to you, Council,
and aren’t particularly rewarding to us.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 19   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Certainly I would like to bring that forward again on the 19th and solicit suggestions and
certainly we will continue to use the ones we do, because we have used those in the
past, and will continue in the future.      We can certainly add to those at Council’s

Councillor Fearnley
So can you email us those questions you had up there?

Mr. Smith

Councillor Fearnley
Thank you.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you very much Mr. Smith. Next!

         (c)      R.C.M.P. – Supt. G. Tomlinson, O.I.C./R.C.M.P.

                  Your Worship, as Mr. Smith indicated I was advised by my predecessor
                  not to have a computer and keep it shut off. This is really low tech. With
                  regards to our Mission, it can be found on page 106 of your handout. I
                  would like to read the Mission:

                  “Canada’s national police service provides policing to the citizens of the
                  City of North Vancouver under contract. Proud of its traditions and
                  confident in meeting future challenges, the Royal Canadian Mounted
                  Police is committed to preserving the peace, upholding the law and
                  providing quality service in partnerships with the community.”

                  And of course we provide the three main services: Law Enforcement,
                  Crime Prevention, and Services to Victims of Crime.

                  Our 2001 Accomplishments are listed on page 106. I would like to deal
                  with our Goals and Objectives for 2002. Just to advise you that what the
                  police have to deal with these days are an increase in high tech crime,
                  sophisticated criminals using modern technology, expanded media
                  information affecting the perception of crime, and diverse community with
                  instilled beliefs and perception of policing. This causes problems with
                  communication and community cooperation.

                  With these in mind we set our 2002 Goals and Objectives dealing with
                  those issues that we must deal with these days; the North Vancouver
                  RCMP Detachment will continue to make strategic use of technology to
                  maximize service delivery and client satisfaction; the Detachment will
                  strive to be a progressive workplace; the North Vancouver Detachment is
                  committed to providing a police service and a work environment that is
                  sensitive to community diversity; and the North Vancouver Detachment
                  will strive to provide the highest quality police service with above average
                  client satisfaction ratings. Our performance indicators are listed on those
                  pages 107 and 108.

                  Your Worship I would be please to answer any questions that Council
                  might have at this time.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 20   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Mayor Sharp
Councillor Keating!

Councillor Keating
Thank you very much Your Worship. The first question or comment, I certainly think
another 2001 accomplishment was working very effectively with the North Shore
Substance Abuse Task Force. I know Superintendent Tomlinson has participated in his
former post and this post as well, and it has been very worth while, a terrific component
of it.

I do have a question though, Your Worship, related to page 108 and Objective 4. Which
is, “providing the highest quality police service with above average client satisfaction
ratings”. In the first bullet under performance indicators Your Worship, the last sentence
suggests that, or the last two sentences suggest that really the RCMP detachment
actually doesn’t have any money to be able to chart whether or not it is in fact delivering
that kind of client satisfaction. And, if I am interpreting this right Your Worship, and I just
want to clarify this, what you are asking is that if the City goes out with a survey to its
budget process next year you want to be included in it to find out some measure of client
satisfaction with the RCMP? Is that the case?

Supt. Tomlinson
Your Worship that is correct, exactly.

Councillor Keating
Okay. I guess the other question I had is about the next bullet. The form that random
sampling of clients by the detachment now takes?

Supt. Tomlinson
We have started, just in the last year, taking random samples Your Worship of victims of
domestic violence and contacting them some time after and seeing how they feel about
how the investigation went on, how the court proceedings went on, and then how they
were served by victim services.

Councillor Keating
Thank you very much Your Worship.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you. Councillor Fearnley!

Councillor Fearnley
Yes one of your bullets says “services to victims of crime” and I think one thing we have
heard in the last little while that one of the areas the provincial government is going
cutback is money for services to victims of crime. I don’t see any huge increases in the
budget matter so I am wondering how you are going to balance the two?

Supt. Tomlinson
Your Worship, that is a challenge and we are looking at different ways of being able to
do that. We have been talking to West Vancouver Police Department and their victim
because what the province has cut back on is victim services through the courts and of
course, North Vancouver and now Squamish Detachment will be using North Vancouver
Court. We have been talking to them how we can deliver those services either through
our office or through volunteer services. Hopefully, the grant that has been issued, there
is no indication that that will be lost, at this time and we are hoping it is still going on.
The use of innovative ways to give services to the public.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 21   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Councillor Fearnley
Thank you very much.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Mussatto!

Councillor Mussatto
Thank you Your Worship, through you to Supt. Tomlinson. We had some discussion
earlier about the changes that could be coming down the pipe with regards to provincial
government and funding for the RCMP and silos going to be happening and there are
going to be some changes. Could you outline how much of impact is that going to be
with the City in terms of what is being anticipated?

Supt. Tomlinson
I personally have looked at it and feel that we could have a lot of advantages here at
North Vancouver. We are very well positioned on the North Shore with an excellent
facility. We can offer services that can be worked out of this office. I think that North
Vancouver can benefit a great deal. I think our services should get better but I can’t
guarantee it until we get more definite plan as to what they are looking at.

Councillor Mussatto
Through Your Worship, in terms of budgeting and financial needs for the detachment,
will we be kept up to date in terms of changes that you might have to make, with regards
to how the E Division might make changes to your detachment? I am just worried that
we are kept in the loop in terms of costs to us as a municipality.

Supt. Tomlinson
Your Worship, absolutely. We will pass on any information that I receive. I know that
there is also the Mayor consultative form that information is passed through them.
Sometimes I get information from the Mayor.

Councillor Mussatto
Thank you very much Your Worship.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Bell!

Councillor Bell
Thank you Your Worship, through you to Supt. Tomlinson. First off, I only hear mostly
good comments about the performance of the RCMP on the North Shore. The one area
that does stand out is in the low-tech crime, the car thefts, the stereo thefts, the
vandalism and the lack of the ability of our RCMP Detachment to deal with that. Two
weeks ago my car stereo was stolen, the officers were very sympathetic but very little
that they could do, that they stated. Is there anything that the City and the RCMP should
be doing in that regard because there is still a considerable amount of that going on in
the City of North Vancouver?

Supt. Tomlinson
Absolutely. Your Worship that crime is going on. It is low-tech crime and to answer that
question it would be long, involved, in how we proceed with policing. We can get into
issues, such as surveillance cameras and additional police officers on the street, vehicle
security, how vehicles are made by the manufacturers. Some vehicles are better than
others. You see a list of the ones that are better, easier stolen, than others.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 22   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Those are all major issues and if the City can be involved it would be in asking for the
new technology to help stop that crime. In regards to graffiti, we are looking at things
like eradication processes that has shown to be very effective in trying to eradicate

Councillor Bell
Thank you.

Mayor Sharp
Mr. Tollstam, just for Council’s benefit I see you have your book with you, I don’t have
mine with me, you have the name, we just had a meeting with Minister Coleman where
he made an announcement about another provincially funded system that they are going
to be putting into place. If you could just highlight that.

Mr. A. K. Tollstam, City Manager
Your Worship I don’t have the name of the system but they are looking at a system,
maybe the Superintendent could

Supt. Tomlinson
Your Worship, the system he has been talking about is PRIME and it is Police Retrieval
Information Management System. It is to get rid of those silos that has been spoken of
and that is because our system, our computer system didn’t talk with Vancouver
computer system. So, if they had a person who stole a car and he drove into Vancouver
we wouldn’t be able to get that record as easily, as we will be, when we have this
PRIME. It will be interconnected, we can check with Vancouver break in tape $1.5
million that they were looking at implementing PRIME throughout the entire Province of
B.C. It would be the first province in Canada to have a consistent software technology
to do that.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you . Councillor Braithwaite!

Councillor Braithwaite
Thank you Your Worship, through you to Supt. Tomlinson. I was looking at your goals
and objectives and I was looking at page 108, number 3 and I went through these
bullets, which you explained, but I see one thing missing which I thought might have
been put in there as a performance indicator. What kind of sensitivity training do you
give your RCMP in dealing with a diverse community? That is completely left out of
here, but if you are saying we are hiring different officers of different groups, providing
employees with options for job sharing but how come that was left off, which I think is
extremely important.

Supt. Tomlinson
Your Worship training that we receive is different. In the last year we went through
Violence In Relationship training and we dealt with that in Regina, to Depot, they do a
cross-cultural training program dealing with different cultures and how to deal with them.
There is some training. We don’t have any plan for 2002. We haven’t come across a
real good program that would pinpoint the diverse community on the North Shore.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 23   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Councillor Braithwaite
I know what you are saying but I don’t understand it. There are all kinds of good
programs that would hit the situation you’re in because we do have a diverse
community. If your police are working in that community, diverse people, how come we
can’t get a project or a program that would address that issue and have your officers
trained for it?

Supt. Tomlinson
Your Worship, I am not aware of any actual courses and I would be, it would great if I got
the names of those courses and we could get access to them. That would be excellent.
We are doing some other programs involving the community in working with the
members to better learn, like a hands-on training, with the members. We are doing that.
We don’t consider that as training we consider that as regular day policing to work with
the community. If there are any courses we would be more than pleased to look at them
and put them into effect. Thank you.

Councillor Braithwaite
Thank you.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Keating!

Councillor Keating
Thank you very much Your Worship. Just a brief question about two other possible cuts
and I am not sure what impact they will have and I want to clarify that, pursuant to the
recent Court of Review. One was in, the province used to fund 50% of the housing of
prisoners in local jails. I am not sure that applies to our RCMP lock-up, that maybe a
service already covered under contract and there was a cut in document transfers and I
am just curious whether or not that would actually have an impact on the work you do
and prosecuting?

Supt. Tomlinson
It wouldn’t have, Your Worship, an effect, to deal with the documents. It wouldn’t have
an effect on the work we do it would have an affect on the resources that would come
back to the City. We have surveying it and we have been getting some resources back
from the province with that. It wouldn’t affect our work we would still have to do it.

As in regard to the cost of prisoners, my understanding is still that the province would
pay for it. When a person is arrested within the City it is a municipal cost until such time
as that person goes before a Justice of the Peace or the court and at that time it
becomes a provincial prisoner and then the costs are gone to the province, as long as
he is staying in our cells.

Councillor Keating
Thank you Your Worship.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you very much.

Supt. Tomlinson
Thank you.

Mayor Sharp

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 24   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
         (d)      Fire & Rescue Department – Fire Chief R. Douglas and
                  Deputy Fire Chief B. Penman

                  Good evening Your Worship, members of Council. It is the Fire
                  Departments turn. 2002 is going to be a year of continuance for Fire
                  Rescue. Our Mission has been defined a little bit more this year and our
                  Mission Statement, to kind of follow up on what the RCMP have said.
                  Our Mission is: To safeguard and serve our community through the
                  promotion and provision of education, prevention, emergency medical,
                  and fire services in protecting life, property and the environment. A huge
                  component that we are trying to add in is protecting the environment.

                  Some of our accomplishments in 2001.

                  We implemented in 2001 the Home Fire Safety Inspection Program. In
                  this program we sent out the firefighters, on their trucks, days and nights,
                  out into the community to knock on peoples doors and spread the fire
                  safety message while offering a home inspection, if they so desired and if
                  not, at least to conduct a interview with the people to talk to them about
                  fire safety or any concerns that they may have in that area. We managed
                  last year to visit 3,860 homes in the City in a five week period and one of
                  our goals this year is going to be to enhance that program and try and get
                  even more people involved.

                  Last year, or just recently I should say, we brought a new rescue truck on
                  line. Squad Ten. You may see it running around the community. A
                  pretty sharp looking little vehicle, replaces our old 1979 E1 rescue truck
                  and it was designed by staff, the people that use the unit. It is modular in
                  design so that when the truck, finally I guess the wheels fall off as they
                  use in the ambulance service, we just take the truck out and we can
                  reuse the body of the truck. That should provide us a little bit of cost
                  savings there.

                  The aerial platform that Council approved two years ago, the purchase is
                  now nearing completion. We are just waiting for the last couple of figures
                  from the manufacturer and we are going to be ordering that and Council
                  will be updated appropriately.

                  Finally, the firehall seismic upgrade. The contract has been awarded for
                  the seismic upgrade and the process should be underway, we are hoping
                  towards the end of February, construction should start. That is going to
                  keep us pretty busy.

                  Some of our Goals and Objectives for 2002.

                  Maintain a high level of service to all emergency calls with highly trained
                  and qualified personnel.

                  To minimize property and environmental loss and/or damage.

                  To maintain an effective and coordinated plan that enhances the ability of
                  North Vancouver City Fire & Rescue to serve the community effectively in
                  the event of an emergency or disaster. We have been working very
                  closely with the Emergency Program and with the other jurisdictions.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 25   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
                  To keep the community safe through the enforcement of the BC Fire
                  Code, performing fire inspections, fire and arson investigations and public
                  education program.

                  To create a higher profile within our community by increasing Firefighter
                  involvement, and that is the line Firefighters, in all areas of Public

                  Most of our performance measures are based against things that we can
                  predict. That being the number of inspections we do, the number of
                  investigations and such that we conduct.                Our performance
                  measurements are things like, conducting initial inspections of new
                  business licence applications within five working days. We are trying to
                  set some timelines here so that we can expedite the process. In the fire
                  prevention inspections, I won’t go on to list them on for Council, I will just
                  touch on some of the highlights.

                  Fire Investigations. To conduct fire investigations of all fires within our
                  municipality within three days of the occurrence to determine origin and
                  cause and that doesn’t mean to initiate the investigation that means to
                  have it completed within three days, barring any form of activity that may
                  involve the police of course. Also our fire prevention staff and I am going
                  to boast a little bit, is the highest trained, highest qualified, fire prevention
                  staff in British Columbia. They have all got their fire accredited Fire
                  Prevention Officer status and accredited Fire Investigation Office and the
                  education continues.

                  Enforcement. What we are trying to do and what we will do, is achieve a
                  compliance rate of 100% within 90 days of noted violations, infractions
                  through letters, orders and fines.

                  Public Education. The firefighters, the new firefighters that we are hiring,
                  we have an expectation of them of community by community involvement
                  and the expectation is that they get involved in things like the public
                  education programs in schools and also community events. We also
                  want to maintain our diligence on flammable liquid storage and
                  underground tanks.

                  So that is where we are going with Fire Rescue for 2002. You can see
                  from our budget submission the basic increase in our budget this year
                  has been from the fire salary settlement. What we are looking for this
                  year is two firefighters, which would be an increase of staff that we
                  haven’t had the luxury of having since 1976 was the last time the
                  department had a staff increase. Other than that I will take questions
                  Your Worship.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you. Councillor Mussatto!

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 26   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Councillor Mussatto
Thank you very much Your Worship, through you to Chief Douglas. Thank you very
much for your presentation. One thing you didn’t mention tonight, and I don’t know if it is
probably a high concern, you might have it well under control, but is the issue of mutual
aid. I personally believe it is key to the City functioning well as a department and it has
been working very well, but occasionally we find ourselves in situations where we have
fires that really overwhelm us in terms of being able to fight them. I am just wondering
how well has the program been working up to now and do we anticipate any changes to
the agreement we have got with our surrounding municipalities?

Chief Douglas
Through you Your Worship, Councillor Mussatto we have been working very closely with
the District and with West Vancouver on putting together a, what we call a
predetermined mutual aid formula, whereby if our resources get overwhelmed we
already predetermine who is going to be backing us up and the dispatchers have that.
Short of saying automatic mutual aid, I will say it is predetermined so that we can expect
certain types of resources to show up at certain types of buildings and things like that.
They are not going to send us a rescue truck if we have a high rise we will get a ladder

Councillor Mussatto
Through Your Worship, everything is working well for in the future.

Chief Douglas
Yes it is.

Councillor Mussatto
I am glad to hear that, thank you very much.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Perrault!

Councillor Perrault
Yes, through the Chair. A couple of questions and I am looking at page 120 of your Five
Year Financial Plan. I notice there are two or three line items here that I am going to ask
you about.

First line item is firehall repairs, and I notice that the revised budget it is $47,000 and
then I also notice that the firehall upgrade is $10,114. Why aren’t those things put
together? Why are they separated? Looking down, Operating Reserves, Fire
Operations then under Firehall, Fire Total Dispatch, that is line 33514510.

Chief Douglas
If I may I will bring my financial wizard down to answer that, my deputy.

Deputy Chief B. Penman
Good evening, could you point this out to me again?

Councillor Perrault
Certainly. At the top of the page, I am looking at page 120, under Operations. Firehall
Operations and then line item is Firehall Repairs and it says $47,000 under the revised
budget and then looking down to the very bottom page under Operating Reserves I see
a Firehall Upgrade for $10,114. I am just wondering why are they on a separate line
item, what exactly, why is that and what is that?

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 27   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Deputy Chief Penman
That is a good question actually. As far as the $47,000 that is our operating budget as
far as repair goes. I believe the Firehall Upgrade you see down below is part of an initial
funding put in for a consultant to look at the whole upgrade itself. That is no longer part
of the operating budget and maybe Isabel could enlighten us on that. I think it should
have been under capital actually.

Mayor Sharp
Mr. Christie, Ms. Gordon!

Ms. I. Gordon, Deputy Director of Finance
Your Worship, that Firehall Upgrade amount I believe was something that was put in the
revised budget to help with the seismic upgrade. It was a one-time item so that is why it
doesn’t appear further along through the lines. That money was spent so it under the

Councillor Perrault
Seismic upgrade, to look at that, is that a consultant looking at that?

Ms. Gordon
No, I think it was part of the funding for the entire project that was put together.

Councillor Perrault
I want to go back then to Firehall Repairs. $47,000 seems like a lot of money to me.
Could you explain what are we talking about?

Ms. Gordon
Your Worship that is basically the building maintenance budget so there are various
things that need to be done for the building.

Councillor Perrault
Also, there is another line item Equipment Repair & Maintenance which is $28,000
wouldn’t that, shouldn’t that all be together, if that is for maintenance?

Ms. Gordon
Well one is for the building and the other is for some of the equipment. I think Mr.
Penman could speak to that.

Deputy Chief Penman
Yes, the $47,000 is strictly the building and the equipment repairs, part of the mechanics
budget, the actual equipment on the trucks and the loose equipment around the firehall.
Not the actual building itself.

Councillor Perrault
I see. So the repairs are, what are we talking about, for example?

Deputy Chief Penman
If we needed overhead door repair, if there is anything the do with the heating, with the
generator, electrical, plumbing all infrastructure stuff for the building itself.

Councillor Perrault
They all needed to be repaired, is that it?

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 28   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Deputy Chief Penman
Like any other building there is ongoing repairs all the time and if things aren’t working
we repair them.

Councillor Perrault
Thank you.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you very much. Mr. Shore!

         (e)      Human Resources Department – Mr. R. Shore, Director,
                  Human Resources

                  I am going low tech as well. I would ask Council to turn to page 123
                  which is the start of the Human Resources presentation. On page 123 I
                  outline the Human Resources Mandate and the Services Provided which I
                  won’t go through tonight, unless there are questions.

                  On page 124 I start with the departments goals and accomplishments for
                  2001 and that continues on for a number of pages. One accomplishment
                  I want to pay particular note of is the, and I think it is a success story for
                  the City, is the Trial Implementation of the 554 Work Schedule for City
                  Hall. I think the evaluation showed that we were able to improve service
                  to the public through the extension of hours, from 4:30 p.m. to 5:00 p.m.,
                  at no extra cost to the City and I think to the benefit of our employees. As
                  Council is aware we are extending that trial into 2002.

                  On page 127 and 128 I talk about the 2002 objectives. Just to name a
                  few, what we will be looking at in this year, is the implementation of a
                  Long Service Recognition Program, this will be phased in over two years
                  and in 2002 we will looking at recognizing City employees with 15 to 24
                  years of service and in 2003 we will be recognizing employees with five to
                  fourteen years of service. Currently we only recognize staff with 25 years
                  and over so we are bringing in a program that is intended to recognize all
                  long service employees.

                  We will also be looking at improving security measures at City Hall,
                  including approved training for staff. Staff ID cards will coming, they are
                  in process as we speak. Another area we will be looking at quite closely
                  this year is looking at analyzing our work force, in terms of its age and
                  years of service. We have a number of baby boomers who are
                  approaching retirement and we need to start looking at how we replace
                  those individuals and we will be particularly looking at developing
                  succession plans around how we develop our own staff, to meet those
                  future needs.

                  In terms of performance measures, on page 128, ….. have we achieved
                  our goals and we will be looking at that in future years, just the same as
                  we have in past years and that will be ongoing monitoring with Council
                  and Directors Team. We are going to be looking at turnover analysis,
                  again this goes with analyzing our workforce and succession planning.
                  We are going to start measuring how we are doing in the labour relations
                  area because I think that is a good barometer of how with we are doing
                  with staff. So we will be implementing some new measures in that area.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 29   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
                  I would ask Council to turn to page 129 just to highlight some of the
                  numbers. We have three areas in our budget. Salaries being the largest
                  and we are looking about a $10,000 increase there and that is due to
                  general wage increases, increments and increased benefits costs. There
                  is no change in staff levels. In the administration area we are actually
                  looking at a decrease of about $7,000 that is primarily due to some
                  efficiencies we have achieved in advertising. We are using more Internet
                  based advertising, relying on the web more than using media and I think
                  that has been fairly successful. We are looking forward to some positive
                  results in 2002.      In the corporate area the budget is going up
                  approximately $15,000 that difference is due to a transfer of funding
                  responsibilities from the Mayor’s Office to the Human Resources
                  Department for both the Civic Awards Dinner and the Long Service
                  Program, in as much as Human Resources has been for the most part
                  administering those budgets in past years.         That would mean a
                  corresponding deduction in the accounts in the Mayors area.

                  I just want to highlight a couple of new items, which Council will be asked
                  to address on the 19th. I would ask Council to look at those items on
                  behalf of Human Resources. We are looking for a new Safety Officer.
                  That is on page 177, line item 3 and I know Council will have an
                  opportunity to look at that more closely on the 19th and I will speak to it
                  then. That is a significant cost, it is $42,000 per annum for an eight-
                  month cost, but we believe the need is there and the business case is
                  with the documentation on pages 184 to 190. There is one other new and
                  it is on line 49 on page 178 and that is for a driver training account and
                  funding is between $1,000 and $7,500 per annum, depending on the
                  option that is selected by Council. This is to introduce a program for
                  driver training for our staff that operate City vehicles. A review of our
                  Motor Vehicle Act in the last year has suggested that perhaps some of
                  our folks but need some defensive driving training. Thank you and I will
                  answer any questions.

Mayor Sharp
I don’t see any Mr. Shore. Thank you very much.

         (f)      Finance Department – T. Christie, Director of Finance

                  If I could take you to page131, I will be very brief. Our Mission is stated at
                  the top. Our vision is to provide financial and corporate leadership to our
                  customers while fulfilling our statutory responsibilities. We want Mayor
                  and Council, the public and departments to receive the best possible
                  financial information, support, advice and direction. We strive to protect
                  and promote the City’s long-term financial health. We talk about doing
                  that with professionalism and openness.

                  In terms of primary services we offer, Your Worship, there are, starting at
                  the bottom of page 131. There are five essential areas; financial planning
                  services, we are talking about our five-year operating, ten year capital
                  planning and budgeting for agencies, boards and commissions.
                  Purchasing and custodial services. On the next page taxation and
                  financial services, general government services which is a really broad
                  range of support type services provided to Directors Team, Civic Projects
                  Team the office of the City Manager, to Council and the public and civic
                  center services.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 30   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
                  Your Worship, a lot of our services are statutory, probably 80% of our
                  resources are spent meeting statutory requirements and we try to do as
                  much as we can with the balance of energy and time we have left.

                  Our Goals and Accomplishments for 2001, on page 133. I will simply
                  highlight a couple of the accomplishments that I think were significant.
                  We were able to pay money out of the DCC Reserve Fund this year,
                  enabling an additional $2.6million to come into our Capital Program. We
                  had a Surplus Policy adopted with your support. We have started
                  processing and documents receiving, is receiving more recognition, how
                  we process things, we are focusing on that and we have 100% success in
                  meeting our Statutory Accomplishments. We have also, we are quite
                  pleased, and I think Council is too with the North Shore News insert we
                  put into the paper in September.

                  Dealing with our 2002 Goals and Objectives on page 135, Your Worship.
                  I am not going to go through them all. We have given a lot of thought to
                  how we try to measure these goals and objectives. I might just add that
                  in regards to performance measures the Provincial Government, as part
                  of their restructuring, has talked about looking at how local governments
                  measure their performance. So that’s interesting. We have a lot of Goals
                  and Objectives here, carrying on to pages 136 as well. The last two
                  pages 137 and 138, we have given you an idea of the scope of services
                  and operations in our department, in terms of the number of taxable
                  properties and accounts payable cheques and vouchers processed.

                  Your Worship, on page 139 you will see a summary of our numbers.
                  Increases are attributable primarily to five things; contract settlements,
                  fringe benefit costs have gone up you are going to here a little bit more
                  about that later on this evening from the Director of Human Resources
                  but Provincial Government has made some changes that is going to have
                  an impact on the City. We have also had to provide corporately for sick
                  and severance, that goes into our budget, so we have elements, several
                  elements in our budget of corporate type costs and that is why you will
                  see our numbers probably move up and down from year to year a bit
                  more than perhaps some other departments. Insurance costs are going
                  up and heat costs area factor.

                  Your Worship the new items that Mr. Shore mentioned on pages 177,
                  178,and 179 and going to page 181. We have listed the options, we call
                  them one, two and three, they match up with options A, B and C on the
                  slides that we looked at earlier, in terms of the overall tax increase for the
                  City. I am just going to take you to line 11. We have suggested that we
                  need to consider a building services worker because there has been a
                  significant increase in the last several years over the amount of building
                  space we have to maintain. Your Worship I would be pleased to answer
                  any questions.

Mayor Sharp
Well Mr. Christie you have done such a wonderful job I don’t see any. Ms. Turner!

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 31   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
         (g)      Information Technology Department – Ms. C. Turner, Director,
                  Information Technology

                  Thank you Your Worship. Now you are really dealing with an exciting
                  department. One of the things I was really pleased to see is that a lot of
                  the departments had mentioned some of the work that IT had helped
                  them do and become more efficient because they had done some of that

                  I would bring your attention to page 146. Some of the things I have noted
                  on here as accomplishments is the upgraded Payroll System, and the
                  Financial System, now we have actually made a recommendation. We
                  have implemented a new centralized Fire System that is being used for
                  the dispatch for the five municipal consortiums. It is not all up and
                  running yet but they are using it for the District of North Vancouver and
                  some of the parts of the system is being used for the City. We
                  implemented the new Business Licence Permit Inspection System
                  upgrade and you will notice a lot of these mention they move the
                  VAX/VMS system to NT. That is fairly significant, that is a big
                  technological change and in total we migrated almost 20 systems this
                  year alone from the older technology into newer technology. Which is
                  fairly significant.

                  We released the City map and if anybody has seen the new City map it is
                  using …….. and it is able to search by property and from that it links to
                  your garbage pick up day, it also links to your property tax information.
                  So if you know where you live you can find that information on the web
                  very easily. We have made all kinds of enhancements and changes to all
                  kinds of things, way to numerous to mention.

                  We have also upgraded this year from Windows 95 to Windows 2000 that
                  is also a very significant upgrade and it required that we change an awful
                  lot of systems and with that has been a strengthening of our management
                  of our computer infrastructure and network speed has also increased to
                  the desktop, making services more …….. The Gerry Brewer Building we
                  have implemented back up there and that is very significant to us
                  because it means we have direct off-line storage. If something should
                  happen to this building, an earthquake, we have back up immediately in
                  that building and since that is also the EOC, it is a very nice place to have
                  your computer files and back up. The other significant thing is we have
                  direct fail over services then over there, so if something again happens to
                  this building, the people in the EOC have Internet access and email
                  access immediately. Provided nothing happens to that building. One of
                  the significant features about that building is it runs right beside the BC
                  Tel fibre that runs across the Lions Gate Bridge, down St. George’s past
                  the RCMP building to the …. and then back over the Second Narrows
                  Bridge. We have got as good a communication access as possible
                  having that as our post disaster recovery site, and now that we have our
                  direct fail over there, that actually works, because we had the opportunity
                  unfortunately to test it in December with some power failures and we are
                  very pleased to see it actually did work.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 32   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
                  Some of the operational support things that we got underway was the
                  operational support of the Library’s computer system and that is coming
                  along very nicely. We upgraded some of our recovery plans, policies and
                  procedures and we obviously, as you can see tonight, provide computer
                  support here until 10 p.m. and that can be significant as I am sure you

                  Some of our goals for next year is obviously to add some more additional
                  permit types to the Business Licence System now we have it up and
                  running and that will be ongoing over the next few months. As you know,
                  People Soft has been selected as the ERP vendor and we will be working
                  with Finance very hard over the next year to implement that. The new
                  centralized Fire System we will continue the implementation of that and
                  we will be evaluating a number of other systems and the Votes
                  Registration, Election Systems ………….. we will working on that to make
                  sure we have a very good system available for election night.

                  Hardware, some of the things we are looking at is to strengthen the
                  management of the computer infrastructure, with September 11th
                  increased security, more firewall attacks, we have got to be very vigilant
                  when it comes to our security of our data. It is becoming a bigger and
                  bigger area and more and more important as more people all over the
                  world have access to the Internet, more and more people are trying to
                  break into places. It continues to be an area that we work very hard on
                  keeping up to date to protect our data and the security of the information
                  we have. At the same time, of course, people want more and more
                  access to information and current information, so both, we are letting
                  people in through our firewall as well as to try and protect our systems
                  from it.

                  We will continue to work on the Library integration. Obviously the web
                  page is being used a communication tool more and more and will only
                  provide better access and we want to upgrade the browser we have to
                  support some of the other technologies as they evolve. So there is going
                  to be quite a bit of work done there.

                  We also have to work towards providing increased support hours, as now
                  we are doing fire dispatch, which clearly is a 24/7 operation. Library
                  services are into the evenings and on the weekends. City Yard works
                  24/7 if they have a problem. Bylaw Enforcement works increased hours
                  as well as the City Hall hours. But more importantly, there are a lot of
                  people depending upon the Internet to be able to get information and
                  services, City services, whenever they would like to get it and quite often
                  that can be in the middle of the night. We will continue to provide more
                  and more services that way. Both the Federal and Provincial
                  governments are looking for municipalities to help with that. The
                  Provincial government has a mandate to try and make all their services
                  available, they haven’t actually stated the date, the Federal Government
                  has and the City haven’t actually stated a day, but certainly we are
                  working towards making as many services available as we can.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 33   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
                  Our performance measures, you have been seeing them for a number of
                  years now and we also deliver our monthly Status Report where they
                  come and we also deliver a GANTT Chart on a monthly basis. The new
                  one we have added this year is actually email statistics and the reason
                  we added that is because more and more people are using email. The
                  traffic loads are becoming increasingly large and we will see these
                  continue to rise as people use the Internet and email for more and more
                  services. We have four times as many Internet users now than we did at
                  the beginning of this year, that is a pretty significant increase, so you can
                  see people are going more and more to the Internet to look for the things
                  that they are interested in. It is interesting to see that searching the web,
                  the library, job postings, and property search always seem to be in the top
                  five. Those are things people are very, very interested in. A lot of other
                  things we have put on the Internet and people do visit them from time to
                  time, some more than others.

                  For this year we have no new items. We have had fairly stable staffing in
                  2001 but with a fairly big turnover, maybe 50% of our department in 1997
                  – 2000, we had a lot of people getting increments at this point so our
                  staffing is going up but, wages are going up, it is not for more staffing.

                  Hardware costs are significantly decreasing, we continue to see that
                  happening, but we are also seeing software costs to increase and we are
                  having to spend more time and more effort in the security area, we are in
                  the midst of upgrading our anti virus software.

                  If you will turn to page 151 you will see what I have pointed out, which is
                  basically our salaries are increasing and that’s generally speaking due to
                  step increments. Corporate computer training is also increasing, that is a
                  very significant thing as we implement more technology, to make sure
                  staff can use it and use it well, otherwise they don’t reap the benefits that
                  are available to them. So it is important and the hardware service is
                  going down and that is also a significant decrease. That is all I wanted to
                  say Your Worship.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you. I don’t see any questions from members of Council but just for the members
of public that might we watching. All of our financial information, our budgets and
everything is also on our web, isn’t that correct?

Ms. Turner
The information that has been posted there, which is probably this package, is available
but access through our firewall to our City applications is absolutely not possible.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you. Mr. Hawkshaw!

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 34   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
         (h)      City Clerk’s Department – Mr. B. Hawkshaw, City Clerk

                  Thank you very much Your Worship. With respect to the Clerk’s
                  Department we actually have the two pages 154, 156 dealing with the
                  accomplishments, Your Worship , of the Clerk’s Department and our
                  Goals and Objectives of the Parking Enforcement Division, as well.

                  With respect to accomplishments, we did manage to increase service to
                  the public with the extra half hour per day, until five o’clock. The Council
                  Minutes from 1936 are currently available on the website by a simple
                  word search.      We published and placed on the website the Council
                  process documentation. We have utilized the HRDC funds to employ a
                  student to put Cemetery data together for us, Your Worship, we have this
                  information now since 1906 and we hope to be placing that on the
                  website. We have reduced our postage budget by $20,000 and we have
                  renovated the Clerk’s Department to accommodate a better workflow and
                  environment and health conditions and provided office space for both the
                  Communications Manager and the Special Projects Manager, Your

                  The 2002 Goals of the Clerk’s Department are that all City bylaws and the
                  Cemetery data be available on the Internet. Provide Council reports on
                  the web page, interfaced with the agenda for easy access by the public.
                  This is something that we are very keen to do. What we mean by these
                  words is that when someone punches into our agenda on site, if they then
                  click on a particular item, the actual report will pop on their website, to be
                  able read it and analyze it at that point. Provide complete agenda
                  package in electronic format for the members of Council and Department
                  Heads. The administration of the 2002 Local Government Election with
                  our current staff complement, being Sandra and myself.                  Other
                  municipalities tend to hire people, so we are pleased about that. We will
                  continue to monitor our working systems in the Clerk’s Department to see
                  if efficiencies can be achieved for the use of new and better systems and
                  we continue to process, with the current staff, a large volume of FOI, the
                  Freedom of Information and Protection and Privacy requests. These do
                  take a great deal of time as each one of them does come in.                We
                  continue to be a respected and efficient department, providing services to
                  the City Council and the citizens of North Vancouver City.

                  When it came to performance measures, this was a bit of a struggle for a
                  non-numbers guy like me, I am about the furthest office away from the
                  Finance Department as you find. Aside from how many times do we
                  have a Public Hearing or how many times do we meet in Chambers and
                  how many times have we adopted the Council Minutes, what is a
                  performance measure for us? Sandra and I put our heads together and
                  thought well, it would be interesting to see, if we can, and it refers back to
                  what Councillor Keating was saying before. What are some measures
                  that we can could really try and have some value for and we are
                  interested in seeing what we can scan and provide the Internet that we
                  can make available there. We are wanting to see how many reports that
                  we can now send to our photocopy machine by a digital process and to
                  work on that process and then the quickness of our results for the 2002
                  Local Government Election, Your Worship.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 35   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
                  Under the Parking Enforcement Division our accomplishments in 2001
                  was we implemented a Collection Agency process. This has resulted in
                  some revenue. These were from some tickets that were previously
                  uncollectable. We stopped in 2000 Process Serving function. It was
                  being a net cost to us and so it wasn’t effective where as this system is
                  very much more effective with not a lot of negative feedback, I might add.
                  We implemented a public relations piece on the website regarding
                  parking infractions to help explain to individuals what they are. Your can
                  pay parking tickets and eliminated the postage paid return envelopes
                  which saves about $8,000 a year and we implemented, the officer who
                  issues your ticket is the person who you are going to talk to if you have a
                  complaint about your ticket, so you are actually talking to someone that
                  knows about which your complaint is and it has helped the customer
                  service substantially. There has been a large turnover of staff in the
                  Parking Enforcement Department, which isn’t a surprise, because it is a
                  very difficult job and we have managed to maintain our activity on the
                  streets and to assist with the compliance, Your Worship.

                  Some Goals and Objectives, we are looking for a new style of
                  enforcement based on the results of Parking Enforcement Task Study.
                  We hope to be implementing, Council as a report later this evening,
                  discussing the Licence Plate Reader System and hopefully that will
                  essentially put the chalk stick back in the arm of the Parking Enforcement
                  Officer, such that we can better serve the merchants of the community
                  provide parking for their customers. We are also able through that
                  equipment, Your Worship, to do other survey work, which is important for
                  us when we are analyzing the City and its parking needs and

                  We are going to implement more training of the Parking Enforcement
                  Officers. We are going to implement public access by the Internet to all
                  outstanding tickets. We will continue to monitor working systems and
                  parking enforcement to see if any other efficiencies can be achieved
                  through the use of new and better systems and reviewing the Resident
                  Exempt Parking Regulations to try an improve it for all of the citizens, the
                  residents and those people that require the spots. How we plan to
                  measure some performance this year is to measure the turnover of the
                  traffic in the parking spots in the commercial areas to see that we are
                  getting compliance, Your Worship. Seeing if the number of tickets that
                  are paid prior to going to collection for recovery, see how that percentage
                  can be increased and to look at some high parking non-resident parking
                  spots in volume resident areas, such as around the Lions Gate Hospital,
                  to see how we can resolve problems in that area Your Worship. That
                  pretty much sums up the break in tape.

Councillor Bell
break in tape how is that envisioned?

Mr. Hawkshaw
Thank you very much Your Worship, through you to Councillor Bell.                   The
Communication Officer would be taking over the advertising budget, would be doing that
work and looking after that. That is a responsibility that they would be picking up and
then they would report in turn to the City Manager’s Office.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 36   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Councillor Bell
I am certainly pleased about the reporting, about the types of reports that you hope to
generate out of fines and people not paying fines and the success as well. I guess one
of my concerns in that reporting structure as well would be, I would like to know how
many. The ones that I hear are the people that are really bad, they owe the City five,
six, seven hundred dollars. I am just wondering if we can break that out as well and get
those types of numbers, to figure out how much of that big sum of money that is owed to
the City is coming from those types of people that are way delinquent and owe a
tremendous amount of money.

Mr. Hawkshaw
Your Worship, thank you very much Councillor Bell, and I very much appreciate that
question because I can also let the people know that are watching. If people do have
five tickets outstanding in the City then they are towed and that assists us in the
collection of those outstanding tickets. That encourages people to pay early, there is an
escalation in the fee if you are not paying up front and one of the reports that your
wanting is how many of these are outstanding and yes, we can provide that.

Councillor Bell
I saved my remarks on the other item for when it comes up to debate. Thank you.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you. Mr. Tollstam!

         (i)      City Manager - Mr. A.K. Tollstam, City Manager

                  Thank you Your Worship. This is the last item Your Worship. Your
                  Worship I just want to turn to, if Council turns to page 165 and I would just
                  like to point out that the various cost items, the Finance Department has
                  shown them and those are all detailed and they are detailed on page 168
                  to 171. Just want to point out that the Manager’s Office we really have a
                  staff of four and one of items that I am putting forward to Council is to
                  raise it to five people and that is the media person.

                  Your Worship, some of the items, which fall under the Manager’s Office,
                  are items within the City that don’t have a home and those are some of
                  the cost items. Some of those items Your Worship are legal costs, costs
                  related to the North Shore Health, costs related to the North Shore
                  Rescue Emergency Program, Noise items and I see that the last item that
                  Terry Christie has allocated to my department is the Animal Pound. So I
                  just want to thank him for that. Basically, Your Worship, those are the
                  items that are in my budget that we don’t have a home and they are not
                  part of the Finance Department, they are not part of the Engineering,
                  Public Works, etc. etc.

                  Your Worship, turning to page 165, those are the four areas Your
                  Worship, that the City is working on, or at least my area is working on and
                  the bulk of that work Your Worship is going to be carried out by Francis. I
                  just pointed out that there is, I was thinking about it for the last hour, that I
                  am going to have to put down a fifth item and that is getting the senior
                  managers trained on PowerPoint. So I will have to put that as the fifth
                  item and then we can measure it against the 2003 budget.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 37   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
                  If you look at it Your Worship, the four major areas we are going to try to
                  work on for this year and stress and that is, one is, to bring business into
                  City and I think that we have some really exciting opportunities. The fact
                  that Lower Lonsdale lands are now starting to go, there is Site 5, there is
                  the Versatile site, there is also about 30 – 40% of the land which is in the
                  Harbourside Business Park that has to built on etc. So those are the
                  areas, tourism, I think there are a lot of areas that we can do to bring
                  tourists to the City of North Vancouver. The other area, Francis is going
                  to be working on, and this is the Library Study, the block, as we really
                  want to start work on that. The aim is to get something built or not
                  actually built this year but at least to get the groundbreaking ceremony
                  done and that is a major accomplishment that Francis has. The third area
                  Your Worship is in the planning, Emergency Planning, and I think that all
                  of us at the City Hall, and throughout the world, recognize that after last
                  Fall, September 11th, we do have to put more of an emphasis on that and
                  Cindy has mentioned during her presentation about the various aspects
                  that we are making sure that our systems, computer systems, are going
                  to be up and running. …. Your Worship is we are trying to focus our
                  training aspect on the staff, so we want to do more and more of the
                  exercises.     We want to make sure the plans are in place, the
                  departmental plans are in place.

                  The last item Your Worship that is a new item for this year. We have
                  hired and starting next Monday, we will have a media person, which is on
                  a contract for six months and we are asking Council in this budget to
                  approve the person for full time basis but to approve the allocation of the
                  money for that, so that we can turn that into a full time post. We think
                  Your Worship, there is money that we could be saving there and I just
                  want to point out that there are various aspects that this person is going
                  to be working on. That is not just the media but there is making sure
                  when you look at the hundreds of different booklets and documents and
                  pamphlets that the City publishes, we have to have an overall person to
                  make sure that the City’s image is getting out there, we’re not having
                  different styles, along that nature. We also have to have somebody to
                  assist us with the web and Connie is going to be assisting us with the
                  web, not in the form of the content, but just making sure that the web is
                  approved and its friendly. I think the last thing Your Worship is, we have
                  to make every effort, and everybody is working on it, it is get the positive
                  message that the City is working on. We have so many items that the
                  City is doing and we are not getting the media attention to that. So those
                  are items that we have to try to work on Your Worship.

                  If any of the Council members have any questions concerning the
                  detailed items I will certainly try to help or have Finance assist me in that

Mayor Sharp
Do you have a question Councillor Bell?

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 38   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Councillor Bell
Thank you, through you to Mr. Tollstam. I just want to outline that I am glad that the
Communications Public Relations position is going to be discussed as a budget item. I
certainly have been a long time supporter of public information and having a person of
that nature in there. My concern and it is something I was going to bring to Council as a
Notice of Motion, but perhaps I don’t have to. Is that there is some type of debate
between, because we have increased tremendously the amount of funding for
advertising and everything over the years, and Council resolved on what type of
information that we should be funding. Public information, I think is very good, and the
Clerk has done a great job. When we start talking about public relations, yes there is
some types of public relations that we should be doing, but do we as a Council need to
be spending a great deal of money on propaganda telling the community what a great
job we are doing. That needs to be debated. At some point we need to debate that.
Having a Communications Public Relations person is a good idea, from my perspective,
but there should be some guidelines set down in which people out there, in the
community, know that we are not just giving them propaganda. We are actually giving
them information that they then can decide what type of good job we are doing. Which I
hope they will agree with. At some point in the hiring of this Communications Public
Relations person I think Council needs to have that type of debate. I may be the only
one that thinks that, maybe the rest of Council wants to send out lots of propaganda out
in the community, but I don’t think that is what the community wants. I think the
community wants us to tell them what we are doing, tell them that this is happening in
the community, but let them make the decision on whether or not we are doing a great

Mayor Sharp
No other questions? Next item Mr. Hawkshaw.

Mr. Hawkshaw
Your Worship, it would be questions from the public.

\Mayor Sharp
At this time I am going to go to the public gallery. Is there any members of the public
that have any comments or questions if they would please come down to the

Councillor Fearnley left the meeting.

6.       Comments, questions from the public

         Ms. Debbie Tardiff, on behalf of the North Shore Waterfront Industrial

         Your Worship and Council. Thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening.
         It is on behalf of the North Shore Waterfront Industrial Association that I am here
         this evening. As you know I am the Manager of that Association. It is an
         Association that started up about three years ago. Member companies in the
         City of North Vancouver are; James Richardson International, Neptune
         Terminals, Vancouver Drydock (part of the Washington Marine Group),
         Saskatchewan Wheat Pool and Western Stevedoring, which is the old Seaboard
         Terminal and Vancouver Pile Driving. All the companies except for Vancouver
         Pile are major industry taxpayers. These companies employee about 1,000
         people in jobs just in the City of North Vancouver. Also, wishing to speak this
         evening is Dave Dunbar who is the Controller of Western Stevedoring.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 39   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
         I wish to start out by saying that the present business climate does not make it
         easy for these companies to do business. Grain exports are down by about 40%
         and two of the five companies in the major industry class, In North Vancouver
         City, are grain terminals. Generally speaking, you probably know all the
         commodities are down. All the companies have been affected by the downturn in
         the economy for very different reasons and the dynamic of industry is changing .
         However, tax rates continue to climb beyond any reasonable level.

         I wish to address the issue of fair share. Major industry has never said they
         didn’t want to pay its fair share but how much is that and what in fact is fair. In
         1988 major industry paid 2.4 times the residential rate. In 2001 major industry
         paid 11.4 times the residential rate. The City of North Vancouver major industry
         tax rate 42.04%, the GVRD average is 34.21%. That is about a 23% variance.
         On this issue of consumption of services are those services used by industry. It
         is often argued that major industry is a significant user of municipal services so
         therefore must pay a higher rate. In fact, industry does not use the services that
         residents are in fact taxed for. Industry pays for water on a meter basis.
         Garbage collection is performed by private contractors. Most companies, or all of
         these City waterfront companies, retain 24-hour security services. So in fact
         there is very little burden on the police services.

         Maintenance or servicing of the roads into the sites for most of the industry is
         pretty much non-existent. Each year taxes have increased for major industry and
         again, using 1988 as the base, the British Columbia Consumer Price Index since
         ’88 has increased 37.2%. Residential taxes increased per capita 59% while the
         tax increase for major industry since ’88 has increased 193%, or five times the
         rate of inflation.

         A very simple analogy came up in a conversation as we met with North Shore
         Waterfront just recently and I think it is one worth passing on. It was given to us
         by Neptune Terminals. Using the major industry tax as a model, if a City resident
         were to construct a $100,000 addition to their home and assuming no interests
         costs and estimating that, that addition is going to last twenty years, the cost to
         the resident would be $5,000 per year. If taxed at the industrial rate the property
         taxes on a $100,000 improvement would be $8,600 a year. It is pretty much a
         penalty on improvement in a time when we should really be encouraging industry
         to improve their facilities.

         In 2001 five companies paid 17.8% of the total municipal taxes collected in the
         City. That is to say that 2.6% of the assessed value paid 17.8% of the total
         municipal taxes collected in 2001. One of the issues that come to the forefront,
         and it has been part of a discussion again over the last couple of weeks, is the
         issue of the CFI building. We understand that it is the Washington Marine Group
         in perhaps the building and the taxes, we have been told, are about $.5million
         dollars more than if the movie industry were in that building. Pretty much the
         trades are the same; they are electricians, they are shipwrights, they are
         woodworkers. Same number of cars in the parking lot but a $.5million more in
         taxes if it is high-end yacht repair in that building.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 40   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
         Industry wishes to see a fair level of taxation, nothing more, nothing less.
         Industrial taxes are disproportionate to other tax classes. We do recognize the
         current provincial government cutbacks and the downturn in the economy and do
         appreciate that, in the information I have, that there is a 2.8% increase that is
         being recommended and it less than last year. But given the economic times,
         the difficulty for these industries and the amount of taxes that they already pay,
         we would ask that it would be a 0% increase in 2002. Thank you.

Councillor Fearnley returned to the meeting.

Mayor Sharp
Any other questions? Thank you very much.

         Mr. Dave Dunbar, Controller, Western Stevedoring

         Your Worship, members of Council and City staff. Thank you for the opportunity
         to speak to you tonight. My name is Dave Dunbar; I am the Controller of
         Western Stevedoring.

Councillor Fearnley left the meeting at 10:15 p.m.

         Mr. Dunbar
         We are the new operators of the facility formerly known as Seaboard
         International Terminal. We took over the terminal on January 1st of this year.
         What happened there was a consolidation of the forest products terminals in an
         attempt to gain efficiencies through consolidation and efficiency of service. We,
         of course, have some concerns in regard to the property taxation levels. We
         would like to point out that we are a major contributor to the economy of North
         Vancouver. We actively support North Shore businesses. We provide over 500
         direct jobs at our facility. We have one third of the workforce living on the North
         Shore, these are well paying jobs, paying in the area of $70,000 per year and we
         operate in a competitive environment. Our significant competitors are Fraser
         Surrey Docks and the United States Ports and they do not face the level of
         property taxation that we experience.

         If I could point to the second graph, the graph on the bottom, it is titled “Major
         Industry Millwrights from 1984 – 2001”. In 1983 the provincial government de-
         linked the tax ratios, allowed municipalities to set their own tax ratios and the
         comparison here is to the City of Surrey and you can see that over the years we
         have seen an increase in the millwright in the City of North Vancouver, compared
         to Surrey, and what happens here is this results in this competitive disadvantage
         of $700,000 a year. The rate in the City of North Vancouver is 42.04% and the
         tax rate is 14.72%. Now, we receive no extra services than Fraser Surrey Docks
         receives from Surrey and it is right there.          This is our reality. We are
         understanding of the economic conditions at various levels of government and
         issues that are falling out from that but to compete in the market place we must
         significant investments in our facilities and if we were to construct, make capital
         investments of $12million in warehouses and other facilities and you assume that
         it was non financed and we found the money internally, with the company
         somewhere, over a twenty year period that cost us $600,000 per year. The
         average property tax costs per year, based on the current 5.8% number
         increasing at 4.0% per year, gives us a property tax cost of $1million per year
         over the twenty year period.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 41   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
         We have made a number of presentations in various forums to other
         governments, including the District. The District appointed a citizens Finance
         and Budget Advisory Committee at which point they concluded that the major
         industry properties are probably taxed at too high a level and they recommended
         to their Council that a tax freeze be implemented effective for 2001 and onward
         for an indefinite period. So tonight I am simply asking for recognition from the
         City that the taxation policy that is in effect now has cost us enormous difficulties
         and what happens in this graph here is, the spread is getting wider. You have
         talked tonight about 2% increase or a 3% increase or a 4% increase, well that
         percentage increase on our mill rate significantly increases the gap that will occur
         between ourselves and competing jurisdictions. We realize that this isn’t going to
         be a problem that is going to fixed overnight. We are simply looking for
         recognition that there is an issue here and we need cooperatively develop a
         medium to long-term plan on addressing the tax rates for our facility. Thank you.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you. Councillor Bell!

Councillor Bell
Through you Your Worship. Don’t get me wrong I am very sympathetic to your plight,
but at the same time those statistics are a little misleading in comparison to other
jurisdictions. You are making look like we have been particularly hard hitting on our
waterfront industry, when in fact every year I have been participating in it, we have
looked at what other municipalities in the GVRD is doing and have tried to be very
reasonable about it.

Mr. Dunbar
But also, as Ms. Tardiff has pointed out, the GVRD average is 23% lower than the City’s
mill rate so we believe there is an issue to be addressed.

Councillor Bell
I didn’t disagree. There is an issue to be addressed and this Council has to take a very
hard look at it but that doesn’t completely match with some of the statistics that our
Finance Department has brought forward in the past when we have raised the mill rate
on industry.

Mayor Sharp
Councillor Keating!

Councillor Keating
Thank you very much Your Worship. I certainly like to second that. I have no problem
with having discussion about this. I certainly would like to see these results, not in a
comparison of North Vancouver City with Surrey, which probably is very favourable
comparison for the case you are trying to make, but with other municipalities I think that
a useful place to start. I guess the other thing that I hear that is being said here is that
you said that this gap you have here is causing serious difficulties, fair enough. I would
certainly like to hear what exactly what those difficulties are but I would also like to hear
that, if indeed we do have …. 0% tax rate increase for next year or for years forward,
which would be the proposal you are making, that we have some guarantee that the
monies accrued from that would actually be invested here in North Vancouver in some
definable way. I wonder if you would be prepared at this point to make that undertaking?

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 42   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Mr. Dunbar
We use the Surrey example because that is where one of our direct competitors is
located and they are able to take that difference in their cost structure to the marketplace
and acquire more market share than we are able to. Now if we were to receive some
consideration in our tax rate we would hope to attract volume to our facilities and from
that create jobs and create an opportunity for investment.

Councillor Keating
I think the thing is, if we are talking about some sort of long term addressing of this
issue, then the street needs to go both ways. If you are going to extract from us a
guarantee with the tax rate limited to a certain level, I think we reasonably can expect to
extract from you some sort of guarantee on the other end, that we will get some sort of
return on that.

Mr. Dunbar
Anything is possible. We are just trying to create discussion at this point and since we
are essentially new to the City we are trying to introduce ourselves and say here is some
issues and we would certainly like to discuss them further with members of staff and get
a dialogue going.

Councillor Keating
Thank you very much Your Worship.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you very much. Are there are any other members of the public that have any
questions or comments at this time? A motion from Council to carry on past 10:30 p.m.

Moved by Councillor Perrault, seconded by Councillor Mussatto

         THAT the requirements of the Procedure Bylaw to terminate the meeting at
         10:30 P.M., be waived, and the meeting continue to 11:00 P.M., if necessary.

                                                                  CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY

Mayor Sharp
Next item. Finance Committee direction. Mr. Christie!

7.       Finance Committee direction on options for balancing the Operating

         Mr. Christie
         Your Worship and members of the Finance Committee thank you for absorbing
         all of that information tonight. I know it is a lot and if you have any questions to
         follow-up, at any time, please let us know either ourselves in Finance or other
         departments and we will be pleased to get you additional information or
         clarification. At this point Your Worship we would be pleased to answer any
         further questions and/or if you are so willing we would like to get some direction
         from you, if you are so inclined, so that we can prepare for the meeting of
         February 19th. I will say to you that in preparation for that meeting we will
         certainly be preparing some information with regards to the two speakers who
         just spoke about major industry and what is happening with rates and such over
         the years. So we will be bringing back some information for you there.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 43   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002
Mayor Sharp
Just so I am clear Mr. Christie, this form that Mr. Hawkshaw is just passing out right now,
you want this back by the 8th of February from members of Council, so we are not going
to be discussing this right now, we just have a look at it.

Mr. Christie
No Your Worship, that is just a form we thought it would help facilitate you providing us
some information, hopefully before the end of the week, if possible, so that we can
prepare for the 19th. If you have a specific or direction for us in terms of what you would
like to see on the 19th or you wish to talk about the tax rate options or anything like that.

Councillor Braithwaite
Yes, the only thing I would like to suggest, if possible, if Finance could prepare for us the
number of staff from each department that are asking for increases in the amount.

Mr. Christie
Yes Your Worship we can do that.

Mayor Sharp
Thank you. A motion to adjourn.

8.       Adjournment

Moved by Councillor Braithwaite, seconded by Councillor Keating

         THAT the meeting adjourn.

                                                                  CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY

The meeting adjourned at 10:27 p.m.

The Corporation of the City of North Vancouver   Page 44   Finance Committee Transcript of February 4, 2002

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