Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

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					Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

Renegade Health Inner Circle
Interview with Susan Schenck

Kevin:       Welcome everyone. This is Kevin Gianni from Today is a
             special interview with Susan Schenck. She’s a licensed acupuncturist with a
             Master of Traditional Oriental Medicine degree. The reason she’s on this call is
             because she’s the author of “The Live Food Factor.” This is a great book because
             it has a lot of scientific research, not only scientific research but a ton of research
             about living foods. That’s one of the things that I think has been missing in the
             raw food world for a long time, or at least a compilation of it. That’s what Susan
             has done. We’re excited to talk to her. She’s in Ecuadorr right now, which is
             awesome. How are you doing, Susan?

Susan:       Great. How are you doing?

Kevin:       I am doing awesome. First, let’s get started real quick, what forced you to write a
             book? Writing a book is not an easy task. What forced you to say, “Hey, I think I
             need to write a book on live food”?

Susan:       When I first discovered it in 2002, there was hardly any books about it. I thought
             it was the greatest health secret I had found. I have been a health-seeker since
             the age of 16. I even got a degree in acupuncture and herbs. I tried every
             alternative healing modality and basically tried to heal myself and others. This
             was like it. This was the fountain of youth I’d been looking for all of my life. So I
             thought I had to write a book about it. I don’t care if only 100 people read my
             book. It’s been worth my while to write this book.

             As I researched it I read everything out there. New books would keep popping
             up. My mentor, Bob Avery, who also edited the book, he kept recommending
             more and more books. The research was just endless. Finally I compiled all these
             scientific studies, because nobody had done that before. I wanted to make it
             solid-proof, even for skeptical MDs. That was my motive. So my motive was to
             help loved-ones and to make it tight, solid proof that this was the absolute best
             way to eat.

Kevin:       What was some of the science that you discovered while you were researching?

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

             What were some of the things that you found to be most interesting?

Susan:       I found that the purpose for eating raw is double whammy. One, cooked food is
             toxic. The toxins in cooked food they really drain the energy of your body. Your
             body is constantly having to fight off these toxins. Research has shown that after
             you eat a cooked-food diet you have white blood cells, which is proof it’s like an
             infection there. But if you eat the raw food you don’t have that white blood cells.
             It’s just draining your body, the toxins in there.

             And then another thing is that when you eat raw food you’re not destroying so
             many things with the fire, the heat. Think about it, fire kills. Fire destroys. Heat
             destroys so many of the nutrients. Some studies show that up to 84 percent of
             the vitamins are destroyed. 100 percent of the enzymes are usually destroyed.
             There’s a few foods that are exceptional that can take higher heat, usually 188
             degrees Fahrenheit. When you destroy the enzymes, you’re forcing your
             pancreas to crank out all these digestive enzymes from the body. According to
             Dr. Lorraine Day, who healed herself from breast cancer using raw juices and raw
             foods, she says that the energy we expend eating three cooked meals a day is
             like eight hours of hard, physical labor, especially after you’re 40. You start to
             lose a lot of that enzyme-producing potential and you get really tired after eating
             cooked foods.

Kevin:       Do you think enzymes are the best argument for eating raw food?

Susan:       I think it’s right up there at the top, yeah. When you eat raw foods you have all
             these enzymes, which are little spark plugs that give us like a life-force. Some
             people even think that’s the chi or the life-force in us. According to Dr. Edward
             Howe, who wrote a couple books about it, when you cook the food you’re
             destroying the life-force. He says that your enzyme potential decreases radically
             at middle age. He actually says that the more you eat cooked food the sooner
             you’re going to die. So every time we eat cooked food it’s like suicide on the
             installment plan.

Kevin:       There’s almost 30 studies that you’ve found as you were doing your research.
             What other ones are valuable? What are some of the ones that you think are
             ones people need to know about?

Susan:       There was one in the book, Goldot, which has a lot of nutrition in it. This is the
             great one where they take three groups of rats. One they feed cooked food, a
             standard American diet. When it reaches the equivalent of 80 years old or
             something they dissect it and they find that it’s got all these diseases, diseases of

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

             civilization. They don’t really have to dissect it. They can see, it’s very, very clear.
             Another one was given the raw food diet and when it reached the equivalent in
             human years of 80 years they found that it was very, very healthy. It’s like what
             we’re meant to do is we’re meant to be very healthy right up to the end and
             then very quickly deteriorate. Our deterioration should not be a slow process.
             We should be healthy and active right up to the end, the very last five percent of
             our life. The third group was the most interesting because with that group they
             let it eat the SAD diet until it was the equivalent middle age, about 40 years in
             human life and then they fasted it on water. They fasted the mice on water and
             they then put it on the raw food diet, raw organic whole foods and that kind of
             thing. They found, this is what’s so amazing, when they dissected those at the
             end they found them to be just as healthy as the ones that had always eaten

             That really gives us hope. It shows that even late in life or in mid-life it’s not too
             late. Your body can reverse a lot of the diseases and the damage. It can be

Kevin:       This kind of reminds me of Stanley Bass’s work. Did you get any chance to
             research any of that?

Susan:       Absolutely. In fact, I’m coming out, I hope soon, with another book which my
             mentor was Stanley Bass.

Kevin:       OK.

Susan:       New book. I do site some of his studies in “The Live Food Factor” as well. He did
             a lot of research, four years I think, with mice.

Kevin:       It’s fascinating. Maybe you can share some of the stuff he found for those who
             don’t know.

Susan:       Yes. He found that the ones that were fruitarian mice, they became cannibals
             and started killing each other and eating their brains. That’s how starved the
             brain was for brain-food.

             I was a raw vegan, very strict, about 99 percent vegan, for about six or seven
             years. My memory was deteriorating, especially the last year. Oh, it got so bad.
             People would have to repeat their phone numbers, their emails. At one point it
             got so bad I couldn’t even remember my husband’s cell phone number. I
             remember there was even one moment when my husband’s name was on the

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

             tip of my tongue. I couldn’t even remember his name. Well, of course, we do call
             each other little pet names a lot. But still, it was almost like I was getting
             Alzheimer’s. I would go to the next room and I couldn’t remember why I went

             I also was getting really bloated a lot and my blood tests showed that I had
             severe B12 deficiency. I also had vitamin D deficiency. My triglycerides were too
             high, because I was eating a very high-carb diet. So I started doing a lot of
             research. This was right around the time I started marketing “The Live Food
             Factor” and I thought, “I have to be in good shape to out there and give
             workshops. I can’t be all bloated, looking like I’m four months pregnant.” So I
             started doing all this research and I was in touch with Dr. Bass because he loved
             my book, “The Live Food Factor” book. I told him about what had happened and
             he said, “You’ve got to start eating raw eggs.” He knew I was vegan but he said,
             “You’re got to eat the eggs, at least three raw egg yolks a day, to get some of
             those nutrients.”

             So for a year I was eating a little raw goat cheese. We can get that in California.
             And some raw eggs. But I would make sure they were top-dollar eggs, high in
             DHA, omega-3, free range, flax-seed fed chickens. I’d go to Whole Foods and pay
             four and a half dollars for a dozen eggs. Even then the blood tests showed low
             B12, low vitamin D, all this. So I finally thought, you know, I’ve got to start eating
             meat. It just dawned on me. I have to start eating some fish, some meat.

             So I started taking fish oil. The fish oil, in just three weeks, brought my memory
             back, in just three weeks, and helped me lose weight, too. It’s a silver bullet for
             weight loss. Then I started thinking I can’t come out in public with this, this is too
             radical. I’d go to Whole Foods and if I’d get some meat to marinate and eat it
             raw, I would cover the meat packages with my cloth bags or whatever. “This is
             just too radical.” I’m going to be branded a hypocrite. Yet a gnawing feeling
             came to me because I found other people that had this same situation as me. I
             lot of the people that I got into the raw food had these same issues. So the
             nagging feeling came to me, “I’ve got to write a book.” I said, “No, no, I don’t
             want to have all that hate mail. I don’t want to have all these people branding
             me as a heretic.” This became an issue for like a year and a half. Finally I just
             decided to write the book, just to get that voice off my back. Then when I poured
             into the research I found there’s all this research. It’s all out there. Folks, we
             have been eating meat for 2.6 million years. We evolved eating meat. The whole
             vegetarian thing is a myth.

             What I concluded is that because of the overpopulation we are evolving to

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

             becoming vegetarians and vegans. That’s quite possibly where we’re headed
             because of the over-population, but our history in our bodies are meat. I don’t
             like the word omnivore because we don’t do well with grains and diary and lots
             of other foods, but we are basically plant and meat eaters. That’s how our bodies
             are designed. I go into great depth in this new book called “Beyond Broccoli.” Dr.
             Bass wrote the forward for it.

Kevin:       Great. How did you personally deal with the change? You’re faced with this
             decision to start taking either fish oil…Let me back up a little bit. Were you a
             vegan for health reasons or for ethical reasons or for both?

Susan:       Everything. I explain in the book that I became a vegan and then I experimented
             with Aajonus Vonderplanitz’ raw animal food diet, which is really extreme. That’s
             like a little bit of vegetables, fruit, lots of dairy, eggs, meat in the same day. For
             me, that was too extreme. It might work for some people but it was just way too
             extreme. I think it is for most people. But he’s great. I’ve met him many times
             and he looks really healthy.

             What I discovered is that there’s different metabolic types. There’s the protein-
             type that does well on Aajonus’ raw animal food diet and then there’s the carb-
             type that does quite well on Doug Graham’s diet, the 80/10/10 where it’s 80
             percent carbs. Then you’ve got the mixed types, which I believe I am, more of a
             mixed-type. Some people even say there’s like six different variations. But
             basically there’s that three. I have a whole chapter on it in “Beyond Broccoli.”

             How I dealt with it was after eating raw buffalo meat, dehydrated, overnight, I
             just felt so good. I felt so good. My memory came back. My muscles came back. I
             just felt so good. I realized this is natural. I decided to practice what the Native
             Americans do and thank the spirit for giving me, even though it might not have
             been willingly, giving me his flesh. I always try to get free-range, grass-fed, the
             animals that are treated well. Living here in Ecuador is so easy. It’s incredible.
             Kevin, you would not believe it. Well, you’ve been to Peru, right?

Kevin:       Yeah.

Susan:       I don’t know if you eat meat but the meat here has no fat on it. I’m sure it has
             traces but you cannot see any fat on it. It’s all grass-fed and free-range. It’s
             incredible. I’ve looked everywhere. I can’t see any fat. There must be
             microscopic bits of fat there but in the US even when you go to Whole Foods and
             you get the best quality meat it’s still marbled with fat. It’s not good quality.
             Here it’s really good quality. It’s got omega-3s in it. The animal had a decent life.

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

Kevin:       If you look at the cows in Ecuador or Peru or Costa Rica they look a lot different
             from the cows you see in the States. You can see ribs.

Susan:       Yeah, they’re happy cows.

Kevin:       I guess the question is this. You talked to a lot of different experts and you see a
             lot of people. How do we really know they’re healthy?

Susan:       I think you can tell by the energy and how they look, how long they live. Dr. Bass
             is 92. That doesn’t mean that there’s not vegetarians or vegans that can live that
             old. Yes, there are. I really have come to the conclusion that we have different
             metabolic types and you have to kind of experiment on yourself and see what
             works, what doesn’t work. One experiment I suggest is eat a high protein
             breakfast and see how you feel the rest of the day. Then eat a high carb
             breakfast, high fruit or high carb diet, and see how you feel the rest of the day. I
             definitely feel better with a high protein breakfast. There’s no question about it.

Kevin:       OK. What do you mean by feel better? Do you have more energy or do you not
             get as hungry during the day?

Susan:       Exactly. No blood sugar swings. I actually eat eggs or meat for breakfast every
             day now. If I eat meat it’s lightly steamed just so it doesn’t look so raw, or it’s
             marinated. And I often eat three eggs. I’ll cook the whites because whites are not
             really good to eat raw. They don’t taste. They use up the biotin. So I’ll poach
             them and then I’ll eat the yolks raw. I’ll make like an omelet and throw in some
             tomatoes, green onions, avocadoes. It’s really delicious.

Kevin:       It’s interesting that you’ve kind of come to this. After being in the raw food
             world, the vegan world, the vegetarian world myself for a long period of time I
             realized that a lot of people aren’t doing what they’re saying that they’re doing.
             So I’m glad that you’re mentioning this.

Susan:       I realized that too and I point that out in my book. It’s like a lot of these raw
             vegan leaders are cheating on their diet and that’s been noticed by quite a few
             people. I don’t name any names in my book, except for a couple that are dead
             like Shelton, for example. He used to have raw goat milk a lot. And he felt guilty
             for it. But he did it. I think his body was probably craving it. I know that when I
             was a vegan I often craved different things, eggs especially. I craved them.

             The vegan diet works for some but you have to listen to your body. If it’s not

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

             working for you, what’s more important? Your philosophy or your health?

Kevin:       When did you start taking blood tests to measure your levels?

Susan:       I didn’t take them until after I started having these issues, until about six years
             later. That’s why I recommend to people, it’s in my book, to every year get your
             blood tests done because the blood tests show your future. They show what’s
             coming down if you keep going the way you’re going.

Kevin:       I’m so glad that you did it.

Susan:       Are you a vegan?

Kevin:       I am right now a vegetarian. From time to time I’ll have some goat’s yogurt.
             That’s transitioned over the last say year and a half.

Susan:       We have to let go of dogma. The vegan philosophy is beautiful. It’s so wonderful.
             It’s like in the Bible where it says the lion lays down with the lamb and there’s
             peace and harmony and all that. But we’re living on Earth. We haven’t reached
             heaven yet. Maybe after 2012. Maybe my book will be outdated in a couple of

Kevin:       What was some of the other research that you found other than Stanley Bass,
             when you were researching your new book.

Susan:       Well, I spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on university textbooks. I did a
             lot of research finding out what is truly our history. The one that I really liked the
             most was by Steven Coonan [?]. He made the most convincing theory that I
             found. We really developed our brains, and this is what made man different from
             all other animals. We had the genetic potential, first of all. Not all animals have
             that genetic potential. But then our diet changed because we went to the shore
             and started eating brain food. Shellfish is the number one brain food. I don’t
             advise eating it raw unless you’re very sure that it’s very, very fresh. It could be
             very toxic. Fish is second and after that eggs. These three are really the top-
             notch brain food. Our brains need DHA.

             The thing about a vegan diet, you can get your DHA from algae. But over-eating
             algae has a lot of neurotoxins and most algae doesn’t have the EPA, which is
             needed for well-being. Fish is not only brain food for intelligence but it also
             makes you happy. The happiest people on the planet are the ones that eat fish.

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

             Now, fish, as we know, has a lot of mercury, which is why you want to eat the
             small fish. The best fish, according to my research, to attain happiness and
             intelligence and not get all the mercury, are sardines, herring and mackerel. It’s
             not easy to get sardines raw in the US. I don’t know about the other two. Even if
             you have to crack open a can of sardines once in a while and eat them even
             though they’re not raw, at least they’re not highly heated. It’s really, really good
             for the brain. It helps us to be happy.

             Studies have shown that people who are manic depressive, if you give them
             good-quality fish oil, it’s gone, it’s healed. So there’s no question about it that I
             really believe that that’s what made us human, what separated us from the
             other apes, when we started to eat all this brain food from the ocean.

Kevin:       Are your B12 levels and D levels back to normal now?

Susan:       I don’t know about the D. I’m still working on that. I think being here in Ecuador
             is helping. I’m out there in peak sun levels on the equator. So I haven’t had it
             tested lately but I believe that it’s probably getting better.

             But the B12, yeah. That’s definitely taken care of. This is going to sound
             disgusting but this is what several of my mentors have told me to do. You take
             the raw beef liver, throw it in a Vitamix [Kevin groans]. You get the sweetest
             juice. I get fresh, raw sugarcane and then you just chug it down. I do that about
             once a month.

Kevin:       Oh my gosh.

Susan:       I know it’s disgusting. But if you put enough sugary juice in there it’s not quite as
             bad as it sounds. That is like the best source for B12. You don’t want to over-do
             the liver because the liver is where the animals store the toxins. But if you can
             get some organic, fresh, free-range beef liver, do that once a month or so and
             that will be good for your B12.

             My mentor, Bob Avery, likes to eat raw chicken livers. I haven’t tried it. [Kevin
             groans] He swears by it.

Kevin:       They taste like pee. I’ve had chicken livers like maybe ten years ago at a Chinese
             restaurant. They taste just like pee. [Groans]

Susan:       Well, I’ve never tasted pee. So I don’t know.

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

Kevin:       This is great, talking to you. Where can someone go to find out more information
             about this new book that’s coming out or about “The Live Food Factor”?

Susan:       There’s no where. They would just have to email me. “The Live Food Factor” is
             on But this is the first time, I’m coming out on your radio
             show. I’m coming out of the closet as no longer a vegan, not even a vegetarian.
             I’ve been afraid of it, the hate mail and all that. I’m just going to shower those
             people with love because it’s just ignorance and they need to read my book and
             you’ll get the message. I’m not going to be dogmatic and say that not everybody
             can be a vegan. I don’t believe that. I know people and I have testimonials in my
             book, of long-term vegans. I have testimonials of people who have been raw
             vegans, very successfully, for decades. It does help if you start younger, like in
             your 20s. It definitely helps.

Kevin:       With the meat, are you afraid of eating it raw and any sort of pathogens?

Susan:       No, not at all. If you get really good, high-quality meat from Whole Foods and eat
             it fresh…If you’re afraid of different parasites just marinate it in lemon juice or
             lime juice overnight. That will kill the parasites. If you stick meat in the freezer
             for two weeks, that kills the parasites.

             Aajonus would say, “Don’t kill the parasites because they’re helpful to us if your
             body is clean.” They actually help eat up the debris and the toxins. If you’re on a
             raw diet, high raw like you say, then the parasites can actually help you. But not
             everybody is eating that clean. Not everybody is that cleaned up.

             When it comes to parasites, I have a friend here in Ecuador, an American, who
             has been a vegan for like six years. She found roundworms in her toilet. So
             parasites can come from fruits and vegetables as well.

Kevin:       You mentioned water fasting before. Have you experimented with water fasting
             and juice fasting?

Susan:       Yes. I haven’t lately. It’s a great way to feel high if you can get past that first four
             days when you’re detoxing really heavily. My research indicates that it increases
             your brain neurotropic [?] factors, which makes you have that faster’s high.
             When you go fasting it’s like you feel so great. That’s why people love to be
             minimal eaters or breath Arians. They love it because they’re high all the time.

Kevin:       Are you still doing super foods or have you taken a step back from that?

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

Susan:       It’s harder to get them here. I miss my goji berries. I can’t find them here. I kind
             of went through goji berry withdrawal.

Kevin:       What are some of your favorite ones?

Susan:       Here alfalfa is probably the cheapest super food, packed with minerals. If you
             can find alfalfa, it’s like two dollars for a whole jar. Even in the US it’s very cheap,
             maybe four or five bucks.

             And eggs are a great super food, if you can get omega-3, DHEA eggs. It’s like the
             most assimilated protein. It’s the best quality protein of anything. It’s got B12,
             vitamins A and D, which are really hard to get in the plant kingdom.

             Sardines, herring and mackerel are super foods. I always like to do spirulina,
             blue-green algae, which I also can’t find here. Those are really great super foods.
             What else? Royal jelly, not a vegan product but very nutritious. And berries.
             Berries are really great. Berries are low glycemic.

             That’s one thing I talk about in my book, that to live long you’ve got to get your
             blood sugar insulin levels down and everything and your leptin levels have to go
             down. Berries are really good for that. They’re one of the best fruits you can
             possibly eat. High in antioxidants, very nutritious and low glycemic.

Kevin:       Were you doing a higher fruit diet or were you doing a higher fat diet when you
             were doing raw?

Susan:       I was doing high everything, high carb, high fat, very low protein. When I wrote
             “Beyond Broccoli” I was on a very low carb what most people would consider
             high fat diet. Lots of olives, raw chocolates that I made myself with white
             chocolate. Lots of avocados. Very, very low carb. My brain was sharper than it’s
             ever been in my life. But it’s hard to maintain that really low carb diet. And it’s
             not for everybody, especially not if you’re a carb type.

Kevin:       How would you identify what kind of type? Is it through the breakfast

Susan:       That’s one easy way but another way is to go to Ricolo’s website and for 29
             dollars or something you can take his test. He has a little test. Then there’s a
             book called “Metabolic Typing.” You can find that on Amazon. It has an extensive
             test that can tell you more.

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

Kevin:       What are some of the raw foods that are just plain old hype that you’ve found?

Susan:       Cacao is one that I’m very, very fond of. It is very high in antioxidants. However,
             it can be very stimulating. If I have more than just a little bit of it I won’t sleep at
             night. That one is very controversial. I’m sure you know. I wanted to put it in my
             new book. I had it in “Live Food Factor” version one and Dr. Vertrano would not
             write a forward with cacao in there. Neither would Victoria Boutenko. I
             mentioned it in “Beyond Broccoli” and my editor, Bob Avery, is encouraging me
             to take it out. But I love cacao.

             I love to sweeten it with yacon root syrup. Yacon root is awesome. Yacon root
             syrup has only 15 calories a tablespoon as compared to honey, which has 60, or
             agave which has 60. Yacon root syrup doesn’t affect the blood sugar.

             I know this because when I was writing “Beyond Broccoli” I went into ketosis.
             After a couple weeks in ketosis your brain gets really, really sharp. I want my
             sweets. I love my sweets. So I was making raw ice cream and raw chocolates,
             sweetening it with yacon root syrup. I did not feel the least bit deprived. That
             stuff is so great.

             I came here to South America thinking I was going to the land where I can get
             raw chocolate, raw white chocolate, raw yacon root syrup, and I can’t find any of
             it here! I’ve heard that the yacon root is only in Peru and even then it’s hard to
             find it raw. Here there’s tons of chocolate everywhere but it’s all heated. They
             don’t understand. The raw food movement hasn’t hit here yet. So I’m deprived
             from all these goodies that were my staples back I California, like the goji berries
             and everything.

Kevin:       Any other foods that you think are kind of just hype?

Susan:       I think that the fruits and vegetables in the United States are not as good as what
             we think they are. When I went to the Raw Spirit Festival one time, this one
             speaker said that he knew an insider who worked for all the agriculture
             companies or whatever. He said that ever since 911 90 percent of all the
             produce in America has been irradiated. That means it’s not raw. They’re afraid
             of terrorism attacks. That means it doesn’t have the high nutrients that we think.

             Then another person who knew another insider that worked for shipping, he said
             that 40 percent of all the stuff that’s labeled organic in the US actually isn’t but
             the shippers want to make more money so they label it as organic.

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

Kevin:       That’s interesting. I have a story. I usually don’t share stories but just so
             everyone knows. When we were initially bringing in chia seeds to sell through
             our store we asked for organic ones and they basically sent a full box and sent us
             half organic stickers and half non-organic stickers. We rejected it. That’s what we
             got. This is real stuff. I’m just validating what Susan is saying here.

Susan:       Did they tell you which ones were organic?

Kevin:       Absolutely not. They just gave us the stickers.

Susan:       Oh my gosh. It really makes you wonder. Here in Ecuador the laws are a lot more
             lax. They can actually use DDT and lots of other toxins that were banned from
             the US as early as the 1960s.

             The guy that I’m renting the cabin from--and by the way my rent is only $230 a
             month. He is very environmentally-aware. He was married to an American who
             was an environmentalist, activist. He founded this organic farmer’s market.
             Every Saturday, even though I love to sleep in till like eight, I get up at 5:30 to go
             to this market. If you’re not there by like 6:30 or so, a lot of the good stuff is
             gone. Everything there is guaranteed organic. They even have open day where
             you can go out and visit the farm and see that they don’t use any pesticides.

Kevin:       That’s amazing. People assume that if they move to Ecuador or Costa Rica that
             their food is going to be fresh and clean.

Susan:       They use a lot of pesticides. You have to really look for the organic stuff. What’s
             really cool is that I’ll go to the organic thing and buy a bunch of collards. A whole
             bunch of them is only 25 cents. I used to pay two dollars for that in California.

Kevin:       That’s amazing. You mentioned you were having memory issues. Were there any
             other issues that you were having? Teeth issues or muscle weakness, cramps?

Susan:       No. My muscles did get smaller from a lack of protein. I didn’t have the teeth
             issues because I was never really a big fruit eater. I knew from my research in
             “The Live Food Factor” that if you do eat fruit you should brush your teeth. But
             now, after doing more research for “Beyond Broccoli” I’ve also learned that it’s
             also an internal thing that has to do with your bones and the mineral balance. So
             over-eating fruit can mess up your mineral balance. That’s why fruitarian people
             who just eat way too much fruit often lose their teeth. I’ve met at least a dozen
             people that lost their teeth or got scabs of cavities.

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

Kevin:       So now that you’re coming out with this, how are you prepared for the
             response? What do you think the response is going to be? How are you setting
             yourself up to deal with it?

Susan:       I’m just going to try to feel love the people who are angry. One thing that I
             realized while researching this book is that long-term vegans who don’t get
             enough proper brain food, a lot of them become very emotional. Their blood
             sugars are unstable and their brains are missing that good EPA that comes from
             fish or the fish oil. It’s better to get it from the fish because fish oil is often
             rancid. So I’m just going to try to be compassionate. I might warn people in the
             back of my book that if they send me some hate mail I might just publish it,
             without their name of course, in my newsletters as an example, “This person is
             not getting enough brain food.”

Kevin:       We have about 15 minutes left. I just wanted to mention that. How do people
             contact you to get more information about “The Live Food Factor” and you’re
             upcoming book?

Susan: I prefer that they email me there rather than at my
             website contact info because I check the yahoo one a lot more often, like five or
             ten times a day sometimes.

Kevin:       I think some of the interesting research that Stanley Bass has done, I’ve read
             through a lot of his work, is not the existing health of the individual but it’s the
             generational health of the family. Could you speak a little bit about that and how
             with mice he was able to find some interesting things through generations?

Susan:       Yeah. He found that each generation gets worse. Dr. Kersio, his mentor, the one
             that first had a lot of patients, he was into natural hygiene and he had so many
             patients that weren’t doing well until he added eggs and some raw milk to the
             diet. Dr. Bass told me that Dr. Kersio would have rather died than eat an animal.
             So he never went to that length. But he was able to improve people’s health by
             getting a lot of them on dairy and eggs. Most people don’t do well on dairy,
             though. I found for me that I don’t do well on dairy and eggs were just not
             enough. I needed more nutrient-dense stuff.

             It’s kind of reminiscent of Pottinger’s cats where each generation got worse and
             worse on cooked food. The same thing can happen with vegans. I want to tell
             people that the vegan philosophy is great but you are a guinea pig. There has
             never been a history of people that were vegans. John Robbins, “Diet for a New
             America,” he was one of the early proponents of veganism. He’s not a vegan

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

             anymore. He eats fish. His new book that came out, something about living to be
             100, he says there’s never been a vegan society. Dr. Price, who wrote “Nutrition
             and Physical Degeneration” he says that he looked everywhere to find peak
             health people that were vegetarians and he couldn’t find it. He was trying to find
             vegetarians at peak health and he couldn’t even find that.

             Vegetarians can be healthy. I think now that we have a lot more supplements
             and everything it’s easier to be healthy as a vegetarian or a vegan, but you’re
             still, with the vegan thing, you’re a guinea pig. Are you willing to do that for your
             philosophy? Some people are. I wouldn’t and especially not for my children, if I
             had children.

Kevin:       I know there’s a lot of vegans and raw foodists listening to this, maybe even
             fighting the information that you’re sharing or maybe they’re nodding their
             heads saying secretly, “This is something that I knew.” What’s the best approach
             for them to just find out if it’s really working for them?

Susan:       A vegan diet?

Kevin:       Yeah. Just someone listening to this call now and either doubting it or they’re
             saying they agree with it. What should they do?

Susan:       Listen to the body. The body is never going to lie. The body is not indoctrinated
             by different philosophies and theories. So listen to your body. The raw vegan
             diet is the premium cleanse. You might feel so great and so radical, but it might
             take you years to that to feel bad. It took me five years or so to really start to
             feel bad.

             And get blood tests done every year. Your blood tests, it might take up to 11
             years to show up. If I remember correctly it took Dr. Gabriel Cousens 11 years for
             B12 deficiency to show up. It could take a long time for deficiencies to show up.
             Get an annual blood test. Check in with your body and see how you feel.

             This is advice that I tell everybody, whether you’re raw or not. Keep a food
             journal. It only takes you ten seconds a day to write down what you ate after
             every meal and then see how you feel the next day. You could realize that
             something doesn’t agree with you or it could be bad food combining. That way
             you can find out what agrees with you, what doesn’t.

Kevin:       It’s amazing how you forget what you ate the day before.

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

Susan:       I know. Women that I know who struggle with their weight, even on a raw diet
             or whatever kind of diet, I always tell them to write down what they eat because
             you’re probably eating a lot more than what you realize.

Kevin:       Have you talked to some of the experts that you had in your first book about
             your new transition or is this all new to everyone?

Susan:       This is new. You’re the one that I’m coming out on.

Kevin:       You can maybe share some information about this but it’s so important to be
             true to who you are, particularly in the public face, too.

Susan:       I think so, too. I really do. I know some people will be upset. They’ll unsubscribe
             from my list or blackball me and whatever. But people’s lives and people’s health
             are at stake. I think what’s really important is people’s health.

Kevin:       That’s great. Why don’t you share again where someone can find out some
             information about your new books.

Susan:       I haven’t put the new book on my website yet. They can email me at
    The book “Beyond Broccoli” is going to be available
             for preorders on Amazon soon. They can just keep in touch with me and I’ll let
             them know.

             The book is going to have science in it. It’s going to have testimonies. It’s not
             going to be as big as “The Live Food Factor.”

Kevin:       That’s a big book.

Susan:       It’s going to be about half as big.

Kevin:       “The Live Food Factor” was four books. It was the science, the reasoning for raw
             food and how to do it. I forget what the other was but it was four books.

Susan:       Yeah, it was a comprehensive guide. This one is going to be half as big and it’s
             going to cost half as much. It’ll be available on Kindle and hopefully iBookstore
             as well.

Kevin:       Great. I really appreciate your time and I appreciate your honesty and the
             research you’ve done. It takes a lot of personal awareness to be able to come
             out and change and be a leader. I really appreciate that.

Renegade Health Inner Circle Interview with Susan Schenck

Susan:       I want to tell people, raw is still law. Even if you do add animal foods, try to eat
             them as much raw as you can. Ceviche, excellent food. Steak tartare. There’s so
             many ways you can enjoy eating.

             I want to emphasize one thing here. When I say that I started eating meat, I’m
             not eating like Americans do, nine ounces a day. It’s like four ounces a day and
             sometimes I don’t even eat any. Sometimes I go a couple of days without eating
             any. But every day I either eat eggs or meat. So it’s not like we have to start
             eating meat three times a day like Americans do. No, the problem with meat in
             the American diet is number one, it’s to much. They’re eating two to three times
             as much meat as they need. Two, it’s cooked. Three, it’s got hormones, steroids,
             omega-6 because it’s not grass-fed, it’s grain-fed. It’s horrible quality and too
             much quantity. And it’s cooked. So I’m not eating it like Americans do and I don’t
             want anybody to go back to doing that.

Kevin:       There’s also compounding issues such as excess sugar, excess processed flour.
             They all kind of come together.

Susan:       Yeah, exactly. All the different sauces that you put on the meat that are loaded
             with MSG and all that. So I’m not eating or encouraging other people to eat meat
             the way they used to.

Kevin:       Great. Thank you so much for sharing. We appreciate it. To everyone else out
             there, this is Kevin Gianni with Susan Schenck. Together we can change the
             health of the world one show at a time. Take care.


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