Defend West Virginia Injury Lawyer by mikeholy





vs.                         CIVIL ACTION NO.
                            (John Lewis Marks, Jr., Judge)




was taken pursuant to the West Virginia Rules of Civil

Procedure in the above-entitled action pending before the

Circuit Court of Harrison County, West Virginia, on the

  th day of          , 2010, at 11:14 a.m., at the

                                            , Harrison

County, West Virginia, before                 , Certified

Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of

West Virginia.
               200 Kerens Avenue
               Elkins, West Virginia 26241
               Counsel for Plaintiff

               THOMAS STEELE, Attorney at Law
               Steele Law Office
               P.O. Box 1484
               Clarksburg, West Virginia 25301
               Counsel for Defendant
                         I N D E X

Witness:                                  Examination

                                           5 (Wolfe)

Deposition Exhibits                                    Marked

1 - “Contract of Sale”                                   48

2 - Building permit                                      61

3 - Photograph                                           96

4 - Photograph                                           97

5 - Photograph                                           99

6 - Photograph                                          102

7 - Photograph                                          105

8 - Photograph                                          108

9 - Photograph                                          109

10 - Photograph                                         113

11 -                     invoices, collectively         146

12 - Diagram drawn by deponent                          151

Reporter's Certificate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 152
1                 VIDEOGRAPHER:         We are now on the record.

2                       Today is                , 2010.   The time is

3    approximately 11:14 a.m.

4                       My name is                 , Legal

5    Videographer/Notary Public, located at                             ,

6    Morgantown, West Virginia.      I am not affiliated with this

7    case nor do I have any financial interest in the outcome of

8    this action.

9                       This video recorded deposition of

                   is being taken at the

                                           , West Virginia.

12                      The caption of this case is

            , Plaintiff, v.                         , Defendant,

14   Civil Action Number               , filed in the Circuit Court

15   of Harrison County, West Virginia.

16                      Notice of this deposition is given by the

17   Plaintiff.

18                      The Court Reporter is             .

19                      Will all parties please state their

20   appearances, beginning with the party noticing this

21   proceeding?

22                MR. WOLFE:       My name is Dorwin Wolfe, I'm an
 1   attorney from Elkins, West Virginia.          I represent

 2          , the Plaintiff, in this matter.

 3                MR. STEELE:            I'm Tom Steele, and I

 4   represent Mr.            , and he's here.

 5                              (Witness sworn.)



 8   having been first duly sworn to tell the truth, testified

 9   as follows:

10                                 EXAMINATION

11             BY MR. WOLFE:

12             Q       Mr.          , this is a deposition, and you

13   sat through Mr.             's deposition, so this is much the

14   same, wherein I try to find out what you know, ask

15   questions like Mr. Steele did, and then get answers from

16   you, is that okay?

17             A       Yes.

18             Q       I think one thing that's important is that

19   you answer “yes” or “no” instead of shaking your head, it

20   makes it easier for the Court Reporter, if you could do

21   that, I'd appreciate that.

22             A       Okay.
 1                 Q   Okay, tell us your full name.

 2                 A                        .

 3                 Q   And do you like to be called               or

 4        ?

 5                 A         , if you don't mind, please.

 6                 Q   Okay, and where do you live?

 7                 A                                    , West

 8   Virginia.

 9                 Q   And how long have you lived at this address

10   of       --

11                 A   Two years and eight months.

12                 Q   Okay, and who do you live there with?

13                 A   My wife        , with a       and my daughter

14        .

15                 Q   Has anybody else lived in the home with you

16   other than your daughter and your wife?

17                 A   No.

18                 Q   And who owns that property?

19                 A         .

20                 Q   And when did               purchase this

21   property?

22                 A   The purchase began on           , it was
 1   finalized, I believe, on          , somewhere in that

 2   neighborhood, of 2007.

 3             Q     So around            , 2007, your wife bought

 4   this property, which I believe is also the property which

 5   is the subject of this lawsuit?

 6             A     Correct.

 7             Q     Who lived in the property          , 2007?

 8             A                  .

 9             Q     How old are you, Mr.        ?

10             A      .

11             Q    And what do you do for a living?

12             A    I am unemployed at the present time.

13             Q    Okay, what have you done historically?

14             A    Construction sales.

15             Q    And tell us about that.

16             A    I've done two different types, I've done

17   retail and I also have done, I guess, wholesale.

18             Q    Okay, what's -- first of all, what's retail

19   construction sales?

20             A    Well, retail construction sales is when a

21   homeowner or contractor walks into a hardware store or

22   setting and purchases products.
 1                    Wholesale sales, where I used to work for

 2   manufacturers, selling directly to the hardware or box

 3   stores.

 4                Q   Okay.     So when did you first -- and that's

 5   the retail construction sale business, is that what you did

 6   then?

 7                A   Retail and wholesale, I've done both.

 8                Q   What's the last thing you did in the

 9   construction sale business?

10                A   Wholesale.

11                Q   Wholesale.    Now where did you do that?

12                A                        .

13             Q      What --

14             A                       ,                     ,        .

15             Q      And where is that?

16             A      They're located in                 , Pennsylvania.

17             Q      So you lived up in                 ?

18             A      No, I worked out of                    .

19                Q   Out of                   , okay.

20                    So if you're a wholesale construction

21   seller, --

22                    What do you do again?          I'm kind of
 1   confused.

 2               A     Okay, I would go to, say, Lowe's, Home

 3   Depot, Hartland, 84 Lumber, and present the line of

 4   products that we had, for them to resale to the customer, a

 5   contractor or a homeowner.

 6               Q     And what type of products would you

 7   typically show them?

 8               A     I did everything from exterior products,

 9   such as siding, windows, and also interiors, such as doors

10   and that type of stuff.

11               Q    And when you were in the retail end of it,

12   where did you work?

13               A    I worked at                        in

14               , West Virginia, and I also worked at

15          in           , West Virginia.

16               Q    Okay, and what did you do at

17          in           ?

18               A                    in         , I was in

19   contractor's sales, I was on the road calling on

20   contractors or homeowners, just trying to get business.

21               Q    So you worked closely with providing

22   materials to contractors when you worked at
 1   in            ?

 2             A       Yeah, both contractors and homeowners.

 3             Q       Okay, and what typically would you do?

 4             A       I would drive to job sites and try to

 5   establish customer base and prospect for new -- cold calls

 6   for new prospects, for new customers.

 7             Q       So would you go out and meet with the

 8   contractor and go over -- let's say someone is remodeling a

 9   home, and go over maybe all the different materials they

10   might need or various things they might need on the job

11   site?

12             A       Yes.

13             Q       Did you have to have any experience in the

14   construction business to be able to do that?

15             A       No.

16             Q       How did you learn how to do this?

17             A       Read a lot, an interest, and just over a

18   period of time.    I mean, I can't tell you how I learned, I

19   just picked up on it, it's something I always enjoyed.

20             Q       So if I was a contractor and I was going to

21   take and remodel a home, roof, siding, decking, go in the

22   inside, rewire it, you could come out and walk through the
 1   job with me and help plan it out?

 2             A       I could help, yes.

 3             Q       And you could tell me “Well, here's what

 4   material you might need” or “Here's what you might need

 5   there,” and we'd kind of work together and come up with

 6   maybe a job list or material list for the job?

 7             A       That's correct.

 8             Q       How long -- when did you first start doing

 9   this type of work?

10             A             .

11             Q      And prior to       , what did you do?

12             A      I was in the bar business.     I worked at

13                 here in           , I worked in the lounge/food

14   area at that point in time.

15             Q      What did you do at the


17             A      Basically about everything.    I did

18   everything from a bartender to a food server to a lounge

19   manager to a food manager, whatever needed to be done.

20             Q      Okay, that was up to       ?

21             A      Yes.

22             Q      And did you grow up in the Harrison County
 1   area?

 2                  A        Yes, I did.

 3                  Q        There's a couple of              ,         and

 4           , that I know.          Are you any relation to them?

 5                  A        I do believe, but I couldn't tell you

 6   exactly how, but --

 7                  Q        Okay.

 8                  A        -- I'm sure we're all related.           I used to

 9   work for their father at                             back when I was in

10   high school in the          's.

11                  Q    Well, that's like I'm a Wolfe and I know

12   I'm related to all the Wolfes in                         , but they don't

13   know it and I don't know it.

14                  A    I can't tell you how.

15                  Q    All right, okay.

16                           So after '     , where did you go after you

17   left the                              at the                 ?

18                  A    I worked at                                   up to

19       , and then             to         I worked at                         ,

20   and then           to           at                  n.

21                  Q    Okay,               , what did you do at

22              ?
 1             A     Basically the same thing I just spoke

 2   about, went out to the -- provided the materials, walked

 3   through the job site.                   and           are

 4   competitors, they're pretty basically the same.

 5             Q     So how many years did you work at           ?

 6             A     Four or five, I'm not actually certain.

 7             Q     Okay, so is it fair to say you worked hand

 8   in hand with contractors, be they general contractors or

 9   subcontractors or roofing contractors, in helping them with

10   their building -- or the materials they needed for the

11   jobs?

12             A    That was part of the aspect.    The other

13   part of the aspect was finding new customers and also

14   working with homeowners on their needs and wants, too.

15             Q    Okay, so if I'm a homeowner and I'm going

16   to do -- remodel the kitchen and I'm going to do it myself,

17   I could come talk to you and you'd kind of give me some

18   insight and help me on that?

19             A    I would attempt to.

20             Q    Okay.    What would you normally do?

21             A    I would come out to the project and look to

22   see what they had -- what they wanted done, price it, and
 1   proceed from there and see what direction they wanted to go

 2   to, try to give them more than one choice and try to work

 3   within their budget.

 4                Q   Okay.

 5                    Would you sometimes recommend contractors

6    or subcontractors to help them do the jobs?

7                 A   I tried, if they would ask, I'd give them a

 8   list and say “Here, you may call these people and see what

 9   you can come up with,” I mean, that was a touchy situation,

10   because you're dealing with seven or eight different people

11   and when you do that, you tend to make one person mad and

12   the other person happy, so I pretty much tried to stay away

13   from that as much as I could.

14                Q   So in the three years you were at           ,

15   how many construction projects, if you know, would you --

16   well, a typical week, how many construction projects would

17   you work on?

18                A   I'd be guessing that -- say anywhere from

19   ten to fifteen could be one week, the next week one to

20   three, I mean, it's a feast or famine business.

21                Q   And that would both be commercial and

22   household?
1              A      It could be -- yeah, commercial, household,

2    it could be somebody walking in for a simple thing as a

3    gallon of paint or a toggle switch, you know, you'd just

4    never know, on the day when you opened the door, what it

5    was going to entail.     It could be a multimillion dollar

6    project or a 69 cent, you just never knew.

7              Q      So you actually worked on some multimillion

8    dollar projects, helping design it?

9              A      I wish.    No.

10             Q      Okay.

11             A      I'm sorry, I can't take that accreditation,

12   no, I haven't.

13             Q      Now have you ever been a licensed

14   contractor?

15             A      No, sir.

16             Q      Have you ever been licensed in any of the

17   construction trades?

18             A      No, sir.

19             Q      Have you worked in any of the construction

20   trades?

21             A      No, sir.   I mean, besides piddling myself,

22   no.
 1             Q     So you do have a lot of experience in

 2   planning and laying out and selecting materials and maybe

 3   things you need for the construction business, but you're

 4   more on the planning stage as opposed to going out and

 5   being a contractor and doing it yourself?

 6             A     That's correct.

 7             Q     And so you were at            for three years

 8   and then you were at                    for how many years?

 9             A     Three or four years, I'm not exactly sure.

10             Q     And did you do the same thing at

11         ?

12             A     The exact same thing.

13             Q     Did you ever have anybody come in and you

14   helped them plan out an entire home?

15             A     Yes.

16             Q     And what does that entail?

17             A     Mainly just blueprints and pricing.    I

18   mean, basically, I can buy a 2 x 4 from you -- you can buy

19   a 2 x 4 from several different places, just trying to get

20   their confidence that you know what you're doing, and make

21   sure you provide the right stuff for what they want, for

22   their budget.
1              Q     So someone would bring the blueprints into

2    you?

3              A     Uh-huh, --

4              Q     Okay, and then what --

5              A     -- that's correct.

6              Q     And then what would you do?

7              A     I would do a -- what you'd consider a take-

8    off, do a material list, at that point in time.

9              Q     So you'd do a material list for the entire

10   stick-built home?

11             A    Correct.

12             Q    And then you were able to order all the

13   stuff that they would need to do this complete building of

14   a stick-built home?

15             A    Probably 70 to 75 percent.     I mean, there

16   was like blocks and concrete and that type of stuff that we

17   didn't specialize in, or HVAC, that -- I mean, there was

18   certain stuff that we had.   I mean, building -- you know,

19   excluding the blocks, air conditioning, electrical, and

20   sometimes plumbing was excluded, because we were mainly --

21   we try to do it all, but you're only specialized in so many

22   different things, --
 1               Q   Okay.

 2               A   -- and you leave allowances for that type

 3   of stuff.

 4               Q   Okay.

 5                   And did you have people come in that maybe

 6   they were going to do a completely remodel of a home and

 7   you would do the same thing on that, help them design it in

 8   terms of a material list, and help them get the best prices

 9   and lay out what they need?

10               A   Correct.

11               Q   So would the people come -- would you work

12   integral with them for the entire, let's say, remodeling

13   project or building project, with the people?

14               A   If things went well, you did.

15               Q   And what percentage of the people you

16   worked with, let's say at          and                     in

17           , were licensed contractors and what percentage

18   were just homeowners?

19               A   That's tough to say.   I'm just going to

20   throw out a guess, 70 percent contractors, 30 percent

21   homeowners.

22               Q   So is it fair to say you had to learn a lot
 1   about the construction and contracting business to be able

 2   to do your job?

 3             A       Correct.

 4             Q       How did you learn all of that?

 5             A       I guess trial and error, you know, you do

 6   something and you're over four or five squares of siding,

 7   you learn to measure better.

 8             Q       Did you do any studying?

 9             A       Yeah, I mean, I didn't -- normally, reading

10   and that type of stuff, I mean, did I go to college, no.

11             Q       What's your educational background?

12             A       I'm a high school graduate.

13             Q       And where did you go to high school?

14             A                  .

15             Q       Okay, and after high school, what did you

16   do, any education?

17             A       I went to Georgia, I was in Atlanta,

18   Georgia from         to          or '   , I'm not certain, I was in

19   the bar-restaurant business down there also.

20             Q       Okay, and then you left Georgia and you

21   came back to Harrison County?

22             A       Correct.
 1               Q     And what did you do then?

 2               A     Restaurant and bar business --

 3               Q     Restaurant and bar, okay.

 4               A     -- at that point in time.

 5               Q     So clear up to '     , that was basically what

 6   you were doing?

 7               A     Yeah, I was in the food business.

 8               Q     So from '   , when is the last time that you

 9   were involved in the design of construction projects, when

10   is the last time you did that?

11               A     I would say 2006, except the one I did for

12   myself in 2007.

13               Q     And so 2006, where were you working at the

14   time?

15               A                      .

16               Q     And when did you quit, or why did you

17   leave?

18               A     I left in          of 2006, we had an illness

19   in the family and I had to stay home and take care of that

20   family member.

21               Q     Okay, and when did you first start working

22   -- it was                     , is that what it is, --
 1               A    Yes.

 2               Q    -- when did you first start working there?

 3               A    I believe it was          of 2004.

 4               Q    So you were there from 2004 to roughly

 5   2006?

 6               A    Yeah, about two and a half years, roughly.

 7               Q    And what's                 , tell us about

 8   them.

 9               A    They're a wholesaler of building products.

10               Q   Okay, do they sell to contractors and

11   residential or just one or the other?

12               A   They sell to retailers and contractors.

13               Q   So a homeowner wouldn't come into

14           ?

15               A   No.

16               Q   Where is it located?

17               A   Their main office is in          ,

18   Pennsylvania.   They used to have an office in            , I

19   don't know if it's still here or not.

20               Q   Okay, I'm not familiar with it at all,

21   that's why I'm kind of asking.

22               A   I heard it wasn't, but I don't know for
 1   sure, just hearsay.

 2             Q         Okay, so where did you work out of, which

 3   office?

 4             A         I worked out of mainly my house.

 5             Q         Okay, tell us about that.

 6             A         Well, basically, I worked a territory from

 7                 to                    and just -- on a normal day I

 8   would drive and spend a day in                      , call on 84

 9   Lumbers, Lowe's, Home Depots, and that type of stuff.              The

10   next day I would go into                , the next day I would go

11   into               ,            ,             .   It was 90 percent

12   retails and the other 5 or 10 percent was contractors.

13             Q        So is it fair to say that from '96 to 2004

14   you got a lot of experience, when you worked at

15   and                      , about jobs and what contractors need

16   and how materials are ordered and how those jobs are

17   designed, and so then you went beyond that and actually was

18   providing the material to the places like                   and

19                          and --

20             A        Correct.

21             Q        -- and contractors directly?

22             A        Correct.
 1             Q      Okay.

 2                    Does a contractor have to be a certain size

3    contractor to go to you directly for material or --

4              A      No.

 5             Q      Okay.

 6                    What percentage of your work was with

7    private contractors and what percentage were with the

8    retail?

9              A      90 percent retail and I'll say 5 percent

10   contractors, and the other -- probably 90/10, 95/5, it was

11   mainly retail.

12             Q      So if I was at           over here, you

13   would come in and maybe try to sell me the OSB boards or

14   the 2 x 4's or whatever that I was going to use, or would

15   it be by projects or by material?

16             A       It would be -- on the

17   end, it -- let me be a little bit more specific about that,

18   it was mainly such as your siding, windows, cabinets and

19   doors, no lumber.

20             Q      Okay, so that's the main items --

21             A      Right.

22             Q      -- that you sold to the retail?
1              A     Right.

2              Q     Okay.

3              A     And roofing, too, I'm sorry.

4              Q     And would roofing be just roofing material

5    or roofing systems or what?

6              A     Mainly just roofing shingles and the other

7    materials, such as your underlayment and that type stuff to

8    go with it.

9              Q     How many roofs from '96 to 2006 have you

10   assisted or helped a residential or a contractor get

11   material or plan?

12             A    I have no idea.

13             Q    Hundreds?

14             A    I just don't know.

15             Q    Okay.

16             A    I mean, I just can't honestly answer that.

17             Q    So in any given year there would be many

18   people that would come in, contractors or residential, and

19   you'd help plan, design, and order material for a roof?

20             A    There would be several.

21             Q    Okay, and so you're familiar with the

22   roofing material, the underlayments or the actual boards of
 1   the roof, and the shingles and all that stuff?

 2             A       Correct.

 3             Q       Okay.   You can figure out the square

 4   footage of the roof and how many shingles they need?

 5             A       If I get lucky, I can.

 6             Q       Have you ever given a deposition before?

 7             A       No.

 8             Q       What did you do to --

 9             A       Yes, I have, I take it back, yes, I did.    I

10   had to think there.

11             Q       Okay.

12             A       It was back in       , my dad was involved in

13   a car accident.

14             Q       Was your dad hurt?

15             A       Yeah, he was killed over that.

16             Q       I'm sorry.

17                     Okay, so did he have to bring a suit?

18             A       I think, --

19             Q       Okay.

20             A       -- it's been so long, you know, I -- I just

21   can't remember.

22             Q       Okay, but other than that, you haven't
1    given --

2                 A     No.

3                 Q     -- any depositions?   Okay.

4                       Did you do anything to prepare for this

5    deposition today?

6                 A     I met with Mr. Steele earlier this week and

7    we just -- we talked.

8                 Q     And I don't need to know what you talked

9    about.

10                A    Okay.

11                Q    Just tell me what you did to prepare today.

12                A    That's what I did.

13                Q    Okay.

14                      Did you review any documents or photographs

15   for today?

16                A    We looked through -- I mean, he --

17                THE WITNESS:        Can I --

18                MR. STEELE:         Yeah, yeah.

19                BY MR. WOLFE:

20                Q    Just what you looked through, not what you

21   said, maybe.

22                A    Yeah, we looked through the documentation
 1   that -- I don't know if it came from you or from

 2             , we looked through some documentations and

 3   pictures of the house that someone took.

 4             Q     Okay, so you looked through some pictures,

 5   and you looked through the -- I guess discovery, written

 6   stuff, or just pictures?

 7             A     Just pictures.

 8             Q     And maybe I might have those, we can get to

 9   those in a little bit.

10                   Did you go through any written statements

11   that anybody might have given or taken?

12             A    No.

13             Q    Did you talk to any witnesses or anything?

14             A    No.

15             Q    When is the last time you've talked to

16   anybody that may have been a witness in this case?

17             A    I talked to Mr.             sometime in

18   November, he and I remain on a pretty steady contact.

19             Q    And what did you all talk about?

20             A    Christmas or hunting season, nothing --

21   nothing involving the case.

22             Q    When is the last time you talked to Mr.
 1                   in regards to this case?

 2               A       When you served me the papers in     of

 3   2008 -- or 2009, whenever it was.

 4               Q       Okay, and what did you do?

 5               A       I just told him to be prepared, that I was

 6   served by Mr.             , that he'd probably be hearing from

 7   somebody.

 8               Q       Okay, what did he say?

 9               A       He said he was expecting it.

10               Q       Did you all talk about the incident or the

11   fall or anything?

12               A       No, sir.

13               Q       Prior to 2009, did you talk to him about

14   the fall and what happened?

15               A       Well, we talked on the day of it, I mean,

16   I'm sure, during our normal conversations, it came up,

17   worrying about his condition and that type of stuff.      The

18   only advice I gave him, tell the truth.

19               Q       So you might have talked to Mr.

20   on the day of the accident, and obviously you were there

21   and Mr.                were there?

22               A       Correct.
 1             Q       Okay.

 2                      And since then, have you talked to Mr.

3                  about it, up until where you said that you

 4   talked to him when you were served with papers?

 5             A       No.

 6             Q       Now in your work experience, did you --

 7   have you ever had any experience with planning and -- what

 8   do you call it if someone comes in and they get a material

 9   list and they plan out a job, let's say I'm going to lay a

10   foundation and -- what do you call that process, does it

11   have a term of art?

12             A       I'm not familiar with it if it does.

13             Q       Well, what do you -- let's say I come in,

14   I'm going to put a roof on, okay, and I want you to help me

15   to do a material list, it's just planning a job or -- I

16   want to use the right terminology, does it have a term?

17             A       Not that I can recall here, I don't know,

18   I'm sure it does, I just can't think of it at the present

19   time, I'm at a loss for words.

20             Q       Okay, we'll just call it planning a job --

21             A       Okay.

22             Q       -- or something like that, okay.
1                    So have you ever planned any block or

2    concrete jobs for any contractors or individuals?

3              A     Yeah.

4              Q     Okay, and what does that entail?

5              A     It entails square footage and then dividing

6    by the size of the blocks.

7              Q     Okay, so if it's a block or foundation job,

8    you help calculate how many blocks they might need?

9              A     Correct.

10             Q    Tell me a little bit more about it.    Let's

11   just say I'm going to pour a footer and lay a foundation

12   and I come to you for that part of the job, what would you

13   do?

14             A    I would basically get some measurements, do

15   the division, figure out how much concrete you'll need, how

16   much blocks, how much rebar, and just work it from there.

17             Q    Okay, and you'd also order, I guess, the

18   mortar and all that stuff --

19             A    Correct.

20             Q    Okay.

21                   So there's formulas and little protocols to

22   get all of that stuff figured out?
1              A     Correct.

2              Q     Okay.    So it -- let's say about a driveway,

3    I'm going to put a driveway in, what does that entail?

4              A     Calling the concrete company and ordering

5    trucks of cement, basically, you need to do your

6    measurements and figure out your yardage and get your

7    gravel and get your -- whatever support materials you'll

8    need, and that's basically it.

9              Q     And you've done that in terms of masonry

10   work, helping plan and design that, and also in terms of --

11   let's say of driveways, where someone is going to put a

12   driveway in?

13             A    Yes.

14             Q    Do you actually go out to the job site

15   sometimes, let's say just with block or driveway concrete

16   work?

17             A    Unless it's involved with something else,

18   no.

19             Q    Certain times, you might go out if it's a

20   big job or something, would you go out and help measure it

21   or anything like that?

22             A    Yeah, I mean, -- because, basically, you
1    know, I was never involved as a concrete specialist, but

2    I've -- you know, I've been involved in other materials, in

3    order to make a living and to make the company a profit,

4    you did whatever it would take.   If it would take measuring

5    a driveway or measuring the foundation, even though you

6    didn't specialize in it, you'd try to help.

7                 Q   Okay.

8                     So you're more the planner and organizer

9    and getting the stuff together, did you ever go out

10   yourself and actually lay a block or pour concrete and

11   finish it?

12                A   For myself, I have.   For somebody else, no.

13                Q   In regards to framing a house, do you have

14   any experience in designing and organizing and ordering

15   material to frame out a home?

16                A   Yeah, I have experience, but can I?   I

17   cannot frame a house.

18                Q   So again, this is something you might sit

19   down and do a plan --

20                A   Correct.

21                Q   -- for the framing of a home, the material,

22   what's needed, how to do it, you wouldn't go out and take
1    the hammer and the nail and do it, but you'd do all the

2    planning and the laying out of that?

3              A     Right.

4              Q     What about electrical, do you have anything

5    to do with that?

6              A     I run, I'm scared of electric.

7              Q     Okay, so you yourself personally don't pull

8    wire and --

9              A     No.

10             Q    -- go and do anything with electricity?

11   Okay.

12                      And in your business, you did not do

13   anything with designing or laying out of electrical systems

14   in homes, or did you?

15             A    No.

16             Q    Okay.

17             A    I mean, I gave an allowance.     If you were

18   doing a house, like a 2500 square foot allowance, I'd put

19   an electrical allowance in there for you, or a block

20   allowance, in other words, I would guess just from previous

21   experience how much it would leave you in X amount of

22   dollars, so you would have an idea of what your total
1    budget for that house would be.

2                Q   Okay, so it was something -- you had a lot

3    of experience with contractors and so you'd know how much

4    it would cost for the size of the home and what the cost

5    for the electrical contractor would be to go ahead and pull

6    that wire and set up that system?

7                A   I would have a guesstimation.

8                Q   Okay, would you actually order the wires

9    and the material and do a material list for any electrical

10   designs of homes?

11               A   I would give an allowance, --

12               Q   Okay.

13               A   -- how many outlets you would need and how

14   many foot of wires, I would just give an allowance, it just

15   depends, it's listed on the blueprint, so --

16               Q   Okay.

17               A   -- it was pretty basic.

18               Q   Okay.

19                   What about plumbing, the same thing with

20   plumbing?

21               A   The same thing.

22               Q   In terms of -- okay, we're talking about
1    roofing, in terms of roofing, if I came in and this house

2    was -- I needed to do a re-roof and I said I wanted your

3    help, what would you typically do?

4                A     I would get the measurements, figure out

5    how many squares of shingles you'd need, how many -- how

6    much underlayment you would need, and drip edge and vents

7    and nails, and give you a price.

8                Q     If someone had any questions about how the

9    roofing should be done, you had enough experience in how

10   the things were laid out that you could tell them?

11               A    Well, I could tell them to a certain

12   extent.    Was I an expert at roofing, no, but I could tell

13   them, you know, “You've got to remove the old shingles, put

14   in new underlayment, and go up with new shingles.”

15               Q    Okay, and now remove the old shingles,

16   that's something you'd have to do whenever you put a new

17   roof on?

18               A    That's what I recommend.

19               Q    Okay, and why is that?

20               A    Probably because basically you would get a

21   heat build-up underneath of it and you wouldn't get an even

22   field.    I have never seen anybody place shingles over an
1    existing roof.

2                Q      Okay.

3                A      I'm sure it's done, but I have never seen

4    it.

5                Q      So now what would happen if someone just

6    went out and put new shingles over old -- you said a heat

7    build-up?

8                A      I think you would get an additional heat

9    there, I'm just guessing on that, I really don't know, --

10               Q    Okay.

11               A    -- I'm going somewhere -- I'm answering --

12   I'm making guesses I don't know about.

13               Q    Now you said underlayment, what's

14   underlayment on a roof?

15               A    Basically, it's the material between your

16   subroofing and your shingles that -- it's more or less

17   like, I guess, a water barrier, it protects -- if you do

18   get a leak in the shingles, it protects the interior of

19   your house.

20               Q    And what type of underlayments do you have

21   experience with?

22               A    Felt paper, and there was some newer stuff
1    out on the market, I'm not -- I forgot the name of it, it's

2    --

3                Q   Tyvek?

4                A   I don't know if it's Tyvek, it's something

5    in that family, I don't know the exact name of it.

6                Q   So if I was doing a roofing job, you'd take

7    off the old shingles and the old underlayment and then you

8    would put the felt paper down and then you'd lay the

9    shingles?

10               A   That's what I would suggest.

11               Q   Okay.

12                   Do you also always suggest a drip edge, you

13   said something about a drip edge, --

14               A   Yes.

15               Q   -- what's a drip edge for?

16               A   A drip edge is when the water is coming off

17   the roof, so it will go into your gutters instead of

18   running down your fascia board.

19               Q   Okay.    So you recommend people actually use

20   a drip edge then?

21               A   Yes.

22               Q   And you factor that in when you're planning
1    a roof job?

2                 A   Yes.

3                 Q   Do you recommend any type of venting system

4    with the roofs you design?

5                 A   Yes.

6                 Q   What type of venting system do you usually

7    recommend?

8                 A   I usually recommend the hidden vent that

9    runs on top of the peak of the house.

10             Q      And what's a hidden vent?

11             A      It's a low profile vent that goes on top to

12   let the hot air escape from the roof.

13             Q      Okay, and why is that important?

14             A      So you won't get heat buildup and mold

15   inside your house.

16             Q      Does the roof have to have any other kind

17   of venting systems in it, other than just the -- what did

18   you call that, the roof vent?

19             A      I'm sure they need some, I mean, the exact

20   formula to build up the heat, I'm not certain, some places

21   use turbine vents, some places use power vents, it just

22   depends on the customer's preference and how much heat and
1    color of shingles and the way the sun hits, how much trees

2    around, there's a lot of variables in that.

3              Q     Okay, and that would all be considered when

4    you're putting together a roofing -- helping somebody

5    design a roofing job, those factors would be all factored

6    in, depending on what the job is, I guess.

7              A     That would be the questions I would ask

8    them to see what they're exactly looking for, I mean, do

9    they want to spend some money for electricity to get a

10   power vent and make the roof last ten years longer, or do

11   they just want to use a hidden vent, --

12             Q    Okay.

13             A    -- it's all choices and -- you know, all

14   choices and budget.

15             Q    So a lot of times money is a factor when

16   you're planning a job?

17             A    Absolutely.

18             Q    Okay.     I take it it's probably a major

19   factor?

20             A    It's a major factor, yes.

21             Q    What other major factors are there?

22             A    The aesthetics, what they're looking for,
1    appearance, and I think it's -- and mainly money, it all

2    comes down to money, what do they want to spend.

3              Q     Everybody tries to save a little money

4    today, with the economy I guess.

5              A     Some people do, some people don't, I mean,

6    either spend now, spend later, I mean, I can get from here

7    to my house in a Yaris or here to my house in a Cadillac,

8    I'm sure the Cadillac would be more comfortable, it depends

9    what your budget can afford.

10             Q     What different types -- I know I've heard

11   the word asphalt shingles, what different types of roofing

12   material are there?

13             A    I know of asphalt shingles, I know of

14   rolled roofing, I'm sure there's slate out there, I know of

15   cedar, there's several different kinds.   I mean, I'm not an

16   expert on roofing, I just know I've sold asphalt shingles

17   99.9 percent of the time and the other 1/10th of the time

18   is a rolled roofing.

19             Q    Okay, what's a rolled roofing?

20             A    It's a -- basically a 4 foot roll of

21   roofing, you roll it out and glue it down.

22             Q    So most of your experience in designing and
1    helping people with roofing projects is 99.9 percent in

2    asphalt shingles?

3                A   That's correct.

4                Q   Is there different types of asphalt

5    shingles?

6                A   Yes.

7                Q   What kind?

8                A   There's thickness qualities, you have a 30

9    year shingle, a 40 year shingle, and a 50 year shingle,

10   that means different thicknesses.

11               Q   Okay, and how would those thicknesses vary?

12               A   The thicknesses that vary give you longer

13   life, I mean, actual thicknesses, I couldn't tell you the

14   difference, but 30, 40 and 50 is the warranty time that the

15   manufacturer gives to the homeowner.

16               Q   And you go over that with the contractor

17   and maybe explain that, and that would be a decision that

18   could factor in, I imagine it costs more?

19               A   Yes, it costs more.

20               Q   Have you ever supervised or oversaw any

21   rental properties yourself?

22               A   I had -- my mother-in-law had a trailer in
 1              , I overseen it, that's where Mr.                was

 2   living at at that time.

 3               Q      And who is Mr.           ?

 4               A                     , a guy I kind of forgot about,

 5   that            was mentioning, he did help out on my driveway

 6   project.

 7               Q      And what did                 do?

 8               A      He -- what did he do for me?

 9               Q      Yeah.

10              A       Not much.   I'm trying to think here.     He

11   was there two or three days, he did driveway removal, maybe

12   some grass cutting, and that's all I can remember.         I even

13   forgot him until             mentioned him earlier today.

14              Q       Okay, in terms of the -- driveway removal,

15   --

16              A       Uh-huh.

17              Q       -- okay, what did that entail?

18              A       A jackhammer and a pair of wire cutters.

19              Q       Okay, and so how much did you pay him per

20   hour?

21              A       I can't remember.    I'm guessing, --

22              Q       More than      , less than    ?
 1             A     -- less than -- it was less than       .

 2             Q     Okay, so he was paid on an hourly basis?

 3             A     Yes.

 4             Q     Less than     an hour, approximately?

 5             A     Yes.

 6             Q     And who rented the jackhammer that he used?

 7             A     I did.

 8             Q     And what other tools were involved, did you

 9   have to have a little dump truck to haul the stuff away or

10   --

11             A    Yes, I did have a dump truck.

12             Q    Did you throw it in with a shovel by hand

13   or did you have a little bucket truck?

14             A    I had a little bucket truck.

15             Q    Okay, and who rented the bucket truck?

16             A    I rented the bucket truck.

17             Q    Where did you rent that?

18             A    A place down here on -- next to the

19                  , I went by there, they're no longer there,

20   -- I can't remember the name, it's down there on -- it's

21   right across from the mall, between the mall and the

22                  , there used to be a rental center there and
 1   I went by there and they were gone.

 2               Q   Okay.

 3                   So -- and we're just talking about -- I

4    guess we'll call it the driveway project, one stage of that

5    was removal of the old driveway?

6                A   Yes, sir.

 7               Q   And who all worked on that job for you?

 8               A   I believe              and       .

 9               Q   Okay, and the first part of that job was

10   the -- you had to bust up the old concrete and I guess haul

11   it away?

12               A   Yes.

13               Q   So you had rebar in that, I guess, so you

14   had to --

15               A   Yes.

16               Q   Okay, you had wire cutters to cut the rebar

17   out?

18               A   Yes.

19               Q   So Mr.         and     worked on that

20   demolition of the driveway?

21               A   Yes.

22               Q   Okay, and you provided the jackhammer and
 1   the -- probably a little endloader and the truck that was

 2   used to bust it up and haul the material away?

 3               A   I provided the jackhammer, I believe the

 4   gentleman I had haul it away, he brought the dump truck,

 5   and I don't know if he brought the endloader or not, I

 6   cannot remember, I'm sorry.

 7               Q   Okay, but the jackhammer came from the

 8   rental place you talked about?

 9               A   Yes.

10               Q   Is there a possibility you rented a little

11   endloader or a similar --

12               A   It's possible, it is possible, I'm sorry, I

13   just cannot remember.

14               Q   That's fair enough.

15               A   I mean, I don't know if the guy that I

16   hired, -- which I can't even remember his name, to hire --

17   to bring the concrete from my driveway down to the new

18                     dump area, and I do apologize.

19               Q   Well, that's okay.

20                   So you hired someone to dump the old

21   concrete?

22               A   Correct.
 1               Q   Was this a -- who was he, if you know?

 2               A   I don't, I cannot remember.

 3                   He drove by one day and he said “Hey, are

4    you looking for somebody to haul stuff?” and I said “Yeah,”

5    and he came back and we loaded him up and he was gone.

6                Q   Was he a licensed contractor, or licensed

 7   trucker?

 8               A   I don't know.

 9               Q   Did he have anything on the side that said,

10   you know,                      ”?

11               A   I don't think so.

12               Q   And you said                    , was there a

13   place that you could dump the concrete there?

14               A   There was --                    , down here

15   at the intersection of                    and -- I believe

16   it's               , it's the next exit down, they were in

17   the process of constructing that location and they were

18   looking for fill, --

19               Q   Okay.

20               A   -- it was approximately a mile and a half

21   from my house, so it was a quick easy two hour process.

22               Q   Other than the trailer that you were
 1   talking about in terms of rental property, have you ever

 2   oversaw any other rental property?

 3               A     No.

 4               Q     Okay, now so the house that was this

 5   remodeling project was                                     , West

 6   Virginia?

 7               A     Correct.

 8               Q     Okay.

 9                     And the owner on        , 2007 was

10        ?

11               A    I thought it was        .

12               Q              ?

13               A    You know, I can't -- it's either            or

14            , --

15               Q    Okay.

16               A    -- one of the two.

17               MR. STEELE:         I think it is          .

18               THE WITNESS:        Okay.

19                     You guys know more, I'm sorry.

20               BY MR. WOLFE:

21               Q    Okay, and your wife was in the process of

22   buying this property?
 1                A      Correct.

 2                Q      Okay.

 3                        I want to show you what says -- it's a

 4   “Contract of Sale.”         This was provided by your lawyer in

 5   discovery.       This will be --

 6                MR. WOLFE:                (Producing document.)

 7                COURT REPORTER:           This is Number 1.

 8                               (WHEREUPON, the document

 9                               referred to was marked

10                               for identification as

11                                        Deposition

12                               Exhibit Number 1,

13                               a copy of which is

14                               attached hereto and

15                               made a part hereof.)

16             BY MR. WOLFE:

17             Q         --          1.

18                        (Producing document.)

19             A         (Witness reviewing document.)

20                        That's correct.

21             Q         Okay, so this is the actual contract that

22   your wife had,           , with a                 , with
 1           , for the purchase of the property located at

 2                   ?

 3               A       Correct.

 4               Q       And this was the property that you did the

 5   remodeling or renovation of this house at

 6       ?

 7               A       Correct.

 8               Q       Now you've never owned this property

 9   yourself?

10               A       That's correct.

11               Q       And whose name is on the deed today, just

12   your wife's?

13               A       I do believe.

14               Q       Now was              living in the home

15   when you were doing the renovation?

16               A       Yes.

17               Q       And the renovation, was it various things

18   on the outside and the inside of the home?

19               A       Yes.

20               Q       How did it come about for you to do the

21   renovation of this house?      How was the decision made?

22                       I mean, you determined to do the
 1   remodeling/renovation of this house and design everything

 2   that was going to be done, correct?

 3             A     I don't know if I made that decision or

 4   not, I'm trying to think here.

 5             Q     Okay.

 6             A     I think the boss told me to get it done.

 7             Q     Who's the boss?

 8             A     My wife.

 9             Q     Okay.   So your wife was going to buy this

10   home and then you oversaw, I guess, the renovation/

11   remodeling of this home?

12             A    Correct.

13             Q    What different things -- specific projects,

14   if you break this down in projects, we have the home at

15   --

16             A    Okay.

17             Q    -- and we're going to do a remodeling or

18   renovation, what was the various projects to be done, let's

19   say, first of all, on the outside?

20             A    Driveway.

21             Q    So the first one was the driveway, --

22             A    No, the first one was the fence, I've got
1    to take care of the dogs, the dogs had to be fenced in.

2               Q      So it was a fencing project?

3               A      Yes.

4               Q      Okay.

5               A      The driveway, --

6               Q      Okay, and then there was a -- so who --

7                      First of all, who designed the fencing

8    project?

9               A      I don't think -- no one really designed it,

10   we just put a fence up behind the house.

11              Q      Okay, but you were the one that made the

12   determination of where the fence went, what the material

13   was, who would work on it?

14              A      Yes.

15              Q      And who all worked on the fencing project?

16              A      I don't know.

17              Q      Okay.

18              THE WITNESS:           Do you want me to guess,

19   should I guess?

20              MR. STEELE:            (Indicating negatively.)

21              BY MR. WOLFE:

22              Q      Well, to the best of your memory, was there
 1   one or two guys that worked on it, that you hired, or --

 2                  A    Well, I think -- I know     worked on it,

 3               worked on it, we had to drill holes twice because

4    they couldn't run a straight line, but -- and I'm saying

5            .

 6                  Q    And these three individuals on the fencing

 7   project, you were the one that determined where the fence

 8   went?

 9                  A    Yes.

10                 Q     You were the one who bought material for

11   the fence?

12                 A     Yes.

13                 Q     And you were the one that supervised the

14   work that they done on the fence?

15                 A     When you say supervise, I would say, you

16   know, “I want the fence here, here and here,” then, you

17   know, I probably went to do something else --

18                 Q     And come back and checked it?

19                 A     Yeah, I mean, --

20                 Q     Okay.

21                 A     -- it was pretty basic, you put it behind

22   the house.
1              Q        Well, at one point they didn't put the

2    holes in the right place --

3              A        They didn't.

4              Q        Okay, and tell us about --

5              A        They had a fence going like this

6    (indicating), I mean, basically, you know, -- yeah, I guess

7    I supervised, --

8              Q        Okay.

9              A        -- let's make life easier on everybody.

10             Q    Where did you get the material for the

11   fencing project?

12             A    It was either 84 Lumber, Home Depot, or

13   Lowe's.

14             Q    And were there any tools rented, like

15   electric augers or anything like that?

16             A    No.

17             Q    You dug them, the holes, by hand?

18             A    No, someone had an auger.

19             Q    Okay.

20             A    I mean, I don't know who, but somebody

21   brought an auger.    I didn't rent one, I do know that.

22             Q    Okay.
1                    So you had to drill out the holes and then

2    I guess somebody -- you bought some concrete?

3              A     We drilled out the holes, put in 4 x 4

4    treated posts and dumped two bags of concrete in each hole.

5              Q     And what was the material of the fence made

6    out of?

7              A     Treated lumber.

8              Q     You had helped design fences before and do

9    material lists in your previous jobs so you knew what that

10   entailed, ordering material, laying out of fence, and

11   planning what materials you'd need?

12             A    Yeah, I mean, basically, you take the fence

13   and run it behind the house, from one end of the house to

14   the other, so the dogs can't escape.   I mean, it was -- it

15   was nothing fancy, believe me.    It's a U-shaped fence, I

16   mean, you're more than welcome to come and look at it.

17             Q    Well, I think you're a little humble,

18   sometimes it can be tricky with a fence.   Obviously, these

19   guys needed a little help because they put the holes -- the

20   holes weren't straight one day.

21             A    Well, I mean, you can't have a fence -- a

22   solid fence going like this (indicating), I mean, wood just
 1   doesn't bend very easily, and it doesn't really take a

 2   whole lot to figure that one out.

 3              Q     Did they have the posts actually in the

 4   concrete and you came out and the fence was up, or --

 5              A     Yeah, we had to -- that was a funny day, we

 6   had to remove some fenceposts.

 7              Q     Well, tell us about that.    What happened,

 8   you came there and the fence was crooked?

 9              A     Well, I -- basically, I had a pole -- a

10   demonstration, a pole here (indicating), and a pole here

11   (indicating), another pole here (indicating), and I've got

12   a solid piece of fence 8 feet long, you know, I can't bend

13   it, so I don't know how else to express it.

14              Q    So the guys screwed up that day?

15              A    Hey, it happens, they were good guys.

16              Q    And these gentlemen were all paid, I guess,

17   around     bucks an hour?

18              A            and        were paid $   or     an

19   hour, I can't remember, and I think       was making    an

20   hour, --

21              Q    Okay.

22              A    -- I'm guessing.
 1              Q      Now is this the first project that they did

 2   at the home at                ?

 3              A      There was continuous projects going on at

 4   several times, the driveway and the fence were the two

 5   simultaneous projects going on, plus cleanup.

 6              Q      Okay, what other projects?

 7              A      On the exterior, it involved replacing the

 8   roof, replacing the siding, and adding a porch.

 9              Q      Okay.

10                     And a simultaneous project, the driveway,

11   we talked about that earlier with the demolition of that,

12   who was involved with the framing up of the driveway to

13   prepare it for laying concrete?

14              A     I don't know.

15              Q     Okay.

16              A     I'm guessing -- I'll guess again, I'm

17   guessing         and      .

18              Q     So were you there to see exactly where they

19   --

20                     What did they frame -- what material did

21   they use to frame up the driveway?

22              A     They used some culled lumber, some 2 x 6 --
1              Q     Where did that come from?

2              A     I don't know.

3              Q     Just stuff you --

4              A     It could have came from Hartland, it could

5    have came from 84, whoever had some junk lumber selling

6    cheap.

7              Q     So you went and picked up, you said, just

8    some culled lumber to use?

9              A     Right.

10             Q    But you personally went and picked it up?

11             A    No, I'm sure I had it delivered, I don't

12   have any way to pick it up.

13             Q    Okay, but you went there and said “I'd like

14   to get some culled lumber,” --

15             A    Yeah, --

16             Q    -- “I'm going to frame up for concrete”?

17             A    -- 60 feet of lumber or whatever.

18             Q    So you ordered that, you paid for that, and

19   that was brought to your --

20             A    Correct.

21             Q    -- the site.

22                   Did you tell the gentlemen where you wanted
1    the concrete -- how -- the thickness, the width of the

2    driveway?

3                A   I called the guy from Alcon or Central, one

4    of the concrete places, and they gave us all the specs, how

5    thick, how much rock and that type stuff.

6                Q   Okay, and how thick, what rock, do you

7    remember?

8                A   I'm saying 6 inches and 57 gravel.

9                Q   Okay.

10               A   I'm guessing again there, too.

11               Q   Okay.

12                   And it's important what size gravel you use

13   under the concrete?

14               A   I assume, unless that was something they

15   had a bonus going on that week, I don't know.    Somehow he

16   told me 57 gravel I needed, I'm not certain.

17               Q   Okay, so then everything is torn out, you

18   have that culled lumber there, you've ordered the concrete

19   and your gravel, what next was involved in this project?

20   What was done next?

21               A   It seems like we put the rock in, got the

22   rock settled, and it seems like some weather or something
1    came in and the driveway was pushed further down, I don't

2    think it was finished until after -- after this accident

3    happened.

4                Q     Okay.

5                A     I mean, I can't remember, it's been so

6    long.

7                Q     So you had some bad weather, so you put off

8    finishing the driveway and maybe moved to some other

9    projects?

10               A     I do believe.

11               Q     Okay.

12               A     And I wanted the rock to settle too, I

13   think we maybe had a problem -- I can't remember, there was

14   some -- there was a reason why we didn't pour the concrete

15   immediately, --

16               Q     Okay.

17               A     -- I can't remember.

18               Q     Okay.

19               A     Something just tells me, and I could be

20   wrong on this, that the driveway was pushed another week or

21   two down the road.

22               Q     That's fair enough.
 1                   And then obviously -- you said you had

 2   cleanup projects, so you always had to do cleanup projects,

 3   whatever job you were doing on this remodeling?

 4             A     Yeah, because we're in the City limits and

 5   they get very strict, and we had to get stuff hauled away

 6   and remove bushes and keep the yard halfway decent.

 7             Q     And who from the City -- would they come

 8   out and check on this?

 9             A     Yes.

10             Q    And who -- tell me about that.

11             A    They would make frequent stops, who they

12   were I couldn't tell you.    I've been trying to get you a

13   building permit earlier, they're going through a computer

14   switchover, and I'm still attempting to get that.

15             Q    So the City would come out and do

16   inspections of the various projects and the cleanup?

17             A    Correct.

18             Q    So when you -- before you started this, you

19   had to go to the City of              for a building permit?

20             A    Correct.

21             MR. WOLFE:        I'll make this Deposition Exhibit

22   2.
 1                     (Producing document.)

 2                            (WHEREUPON, the document

3                             referred to was marked

4                             for identification as

5                                    Deposition

6                             Exhibit Number 2,

7                             a copy of which is

8                             attached hereto and

9                             made a part hereof.)

10             THE WITNESS:            (Reviewing document.)

11             BY MR. WOLFE:

12             Q      Now is this a copy of the building permit

13   that -- your application to the City of              ?

14                     (Producing Exhibit Number 2.)

15             A      (Witness reviewing document.)

16                     Yes.

17             Q      And this was issued on             , 2007?

18             A      Correct.

19             Q      And it has your name, and                ,

20   and           , that's your phone number?

21             A      Correct.

22             Q      Now underneath (C), it says “Type of
 1   Improvement,” you checked “Utility Building,” --

 2             A     Right.

 3             Q     -- and you checked “Deck and Patio,” --

 4             A     Right.

 5             Q     -- and you wrote in “Driveway,” --

 6             A     Right.

 7             Q     -- and this would be “New Structure

 8   Additions,” the category, so these were all considered new

 9   structure additions?

10             A    Yeah.

11             Q    Okay.

12                   And then under “Alternative/Remodel/

13   Repair,” you put “Roofing” and “Siding”?

14             A    Correct.

15             Q    Now this is something that you gave to the

16   City of            so they could know what type of work you

17   were doing?

18             A    Correct.

19             Q    And you gave them an estimate cost of the

20   remodel for this stage of        , and I suppose they based

21   a fee based on the cost?

22             A    I guess.
 1                Q   But the job was approximately         , was

 2   your estimate at this point?

 3                A   Yeah, for the exterior.

 4                Q   And underneath “Contractor Information,”

 5   you signed an “X” and put your initial, -- your signature?

 6                A   Correct.

 7                Q   And under “Subcontractors,” you listed

 8   yourself as a subcontractor on this job?

 9                A   I was doing the work myself, that's

10   correct.

11                Q   Okay.   So under “Contractor Information,”

12   you signed that, and there where it says list

13   subcontractors, you listed yourself as a subcontractor?

14                A   (Witness reviewing document.)

15                    That writing on “Self” is too good to be my

16   writing.

17                Q   Okay, but under “Subcontractors,” it says

18   “Self,” --

19                A   Right, I --

20                Q   -- in terms of the subcontractor, right?

21                A   I didn't write that.

22                Q   Okay, you didn't write that, but --
1                A   No, but, you know, it's like I said, that's

2    -- I did the project myself.

3                Q   You did it yourself?

4                A   Right.

5                Q   Was there any licensed subcontractors on

6    this job?

7                A   No.

8                Q   On the next page, I believe this is

9    probably the inspection type you were talking about, where

10   it talks -- it goes down through and has all of the

11   inspections that were done for the various parts of the

12   project?

13               A   I assume that's what it is.

14               Q   Have you seen this page before?

15               A   No.

16               Q   This would be the page, I presume, that

17   they would bring out when they were coming out and

18   inspecting the various parts of the --

19               A   Okay.

20               Q   -- of the job, what you were doing on this

21   remodeling?

22               A   Yes.
1               Q    Okay.   You remember the guys coming out and

2    inspecting the remodeling that you were doing?

3               A    No, not really.     I don't know if I wasn't

4    there -- I just can't remember.

5               Q    Okay.

6                    But it seems to be -- first of all, it says

7    “Zoning Setback,” they made some notes about that, do you

8    remember that being something that was a concern in the

9    project?

10              A   No.

11              Q   Okay.

12                   Next they talk about the driveway, and on

13   the demo, do you remember anything about the driveway demo?

14              A   No.

15              Q   Next they came out -- it says something

16   about smoke detectors and wiring.

17              A   I do remember that.

18              Q   Okay, what was that?

19              A   I could not use battery smoke detectors, I

20   had to hard wire smoke detectors.

21              Q   Okay, and then --

22              A   I put one on each floor.
1               Q    And I guess next they approved the roof in

2    terms of the -- they said shingles were okay, did they come

3    out and discuss what type of material to use for the roof?

4               A    No.

5               Q    Do you remember them coming out at all and

6    talking to you about the roof?

7               A    No.

8               Q    But obviously someone might have made some

9    notes, it looks like.

10              A   Someone -- yeah, it looks like they signed

11   off on it four or five months later.

12              Q   Okay, and then it says “Utility Building,”

13   so do you remember someone coming out and talking to you

14   about the utility building, it says it was not installed,

15   so I guess it wasn't installed, and you said you would get

16   a new permit when you built that?

17              Q   Yeah, it kind of got vetoed at the last

18   minute, there's no utility building there.

19              Q   Next it talks about a rear deck and a block

20   wall, --

21              A   Okay.

22              Q   -- what was -- tell us about that.
1               A       I just added a porch on the back.    I don't

2    know what else you want me to say.

3               Q       What's the block wall that they're

4    referring to?

5               A       I have a four foot retaining wall on the

6    bottom level, I've got stacked decks.

7               Q       Oh, okay, so you had to put a retaining

8    wall in?

9               A       No.   I had to put a wall in to keep my dogs

10   inside the deck.

11                      (Witness reviewing document.)

12                      And they yelled at me for having trash on

13   the street, too.    I remember that.

14              Q    Okay, that's where they said about picking

15   up debris --

16              A    Yeah.

17              Q    -- at the bottom?

18              A    Yeah.

19              Q    Okay.

20                      So this -- is the first page, is this the

21   application for the building permit?

22              A    I'm not certain.
1              Q     Okay.     And the second page, it looks to

2    appear where they might have came out and they've actually

3    checked to see what you have done in conjunction with what

4    type of improvements that you had planned?

5              A     It may be.

6              Q     Have you ever seen this -- have you ever

7    used this form before or been involved with these forms

8    before?

9              A     Well, apparently, you know, I wrote a check

10   for something here, so.    I don't remember it.   That's the

11   first time -- you know, I'm sure I signed and seen it, I

12   just don't remember it.

13             Q    Okay, but this is your actual --

14             A    This is my chicken scratch at the bottom.

15             Q    Okay, that's your chicken scratch, that's

16   your check number, you filled in this first page where they

17   wanted to know about the type of work to be done --

18             A    I think I answered --

19             Q    -- and the cost?

20             A    -- the questions, because the writing on

21   top, it's too legible to be mine, --

22             Q    Oh, okay.
 1                A    -- okay, so they might have asked me

 2   questions and I gave them answers.

 3                Q    And I see a “City Authorization:,” a

 4   signature and a title, so it looks like you went in to get

 5   a building permit, you're telling this information, whoever

 6   this person is is writing the information in, you gave them

 7   a check for -- check number       , and then you did sign the

 8   front page.

 9                A    I did sign it, it looks like someone else

10   filled it out, --

11             Q      Someone else filled it in and you signed

12   it?

13             A      -- I'm guessing that, too.

14             Q      And that is your signature?

15             A      That is my signature.

16             Q      And from what you can tell, this page looks

17   fairly accurate as the information that you filled out on

18                of '07 for this remodeling project at

19            ?

20             A      To the best of my knowledge, --

21             Q      Okay.

22             A      -- I mean, I just don't know, --
 1             Q     Well, that's fine.

 2             A     -- I do apologize.

 3             Q     Well, there's nothing on there that we went

 4   through that's different from what your memory is?

 5             A     I don't even remember it, so.

 6             Q     Okay.

 7             A     That's my signature, that's the only thing

 8   I can tell you, --

 9             Q     That's fine.

10             A    -- and that's my check number, so --

11             Q    Okay, that's fine.

12             A    -- I did it.

13             Q    Okay, now the second page, that's something

14   that they filled in and you've never seen that page?

15             A    I've never seen it before.

16             Q    Okay.

17             A    I do remember the smoke detectors and I

18   remember getting yelled at for having trash on the street.

19             Q    Okay.    Well, I'll represent that this

20   actually came as a business record from the City of

21             , indicating that this was your application for

22   your building permit, and we'll just leave it at that,
 1   okay?

 2             A       Thank you.

 3             Q       Okay.

 4             THE WITNESS:             May I have five, please?      I

 5   need to go the restroom.

 6             MR. WOLFE:               Yeah, yeah.

 7             THE WITNESS:             Is that all right with you?

 8             MR. WOLFE:               That's fine.

 9             VIDEOGRAPHER:            The time is 12:09.   We are

10   off the record.

11                             (WHEREUPON, a recess

12                             was taken, after which

13                             the deposition resumed

14                             and the following

15                             proceedings were had.)

16             VIDEOGRAPHER:            We are back on the record at

17   12:17.

18             BY MR. WOLFE:

19             Q       Mr.         , one of the things I forgot to

20   mention is, if we take breaks, you're still under oath and

21   you're -- I guess there's kind of -- the deposition is

22   still kind of in progress.
1              A       Okay.

2              Q       Okay.   Did you talk to Mr. Steele about the

3    substance of your testimony?

4              A       No.

5              Q       Because I kind of walked in and saw you

6    guys talking and I was just wondering, what were you all

7    talking about?

8              A       My daughter's birthday party this evening.

9              Q       Perfectly fine.   Sometimes I forget to --

10             MR. STEELE:            Of course, that would still

11   be privileged, wouldn't it, Dorwin?

12             MR. WOLFE:             It would still be

13   privileged, yeah.

14             BY MR. WOLFE:

15             Q       I forget to mention that --

16             MR. STEELE:            Wouldn't there be some -- is

17   stuff that's said in the bathroom not privileged?

18             MR. WOLFE:             I don't know, I hope it's

19   all privileged.

20             THE WITNESS:           We checked the stalls, there

21   was nobody in there.

22             BY MR. WOLFE:
 1               Q   Okay, well, I forget to mention that.

 2   Okay.

 3                   We were talking when we took a break about

 4   the various projects that were involved and we were talking

 5   about the cleanup and then you mentioned that retaining

 6   wall, maybe I'll jump to the retaining wall.

 7                   Tell us about the retaining wall project

 8   that was part of the remodeling of the

 9   property.

10               A   I guess retaining is a wrong word for it,

11   it does not retain anything.   It's a brick wall that is 4

12   feet tall, that goes in a shape of a “U” around the bottom

13   deck, in other words, to keep the deck part separated from

14   the backyard, and also to keep the dogs located inside the

15   fenced area.

16               Q   Now something just came to my mind.

17                   I may not be the sharpest guy when it comes

18   to -- how did you keep track of all these projects, did you

19   design this out, have blueprints, have lists, because there

20   seems to be a lot of projects involved?

21               A   No, I just had a vision and stuck to my

22   vision.
1               Q    Did you make material lists for each

2    project?

3               A    No.

4               Q    You've done this so many times in the past,

5    you were able to kind of figure out what it took for each

6    project?

7               A    I guessed.   I mean, there was a lot of

8    stuff coming forwards and backwards.

9               Q    A lot of material coming in?

10              A   Yeah, --

11              Q   Okay.

12              A   -- I mean, you're doing a project and -- I

13   had the cement guys there, the -- and that type of stuff,

14   and the fence, I mean, you took your total feet and divided

15   it by 8 and you had -- you know, did I keep a list?    No.   I

16   did it on the fly.

17              Q   Okay, so there's no blueprints, plans --

18              A   No.

19              Q   -- written down, --

20              A   No.

21              Q   -- it was all in your head?

22              A   Yeah.
 1             Q     And you've done it, you know, roughly for

 2   ten, fifteen years, for contractors, so you're pretty

 3   familiar on how these things are to be planned and

 4   materials ordered?

 5             A     I guessed a lot, and then sometimes it

 6   worked out, sometimes it didn't.

 7             Q     Okay, Mr.           earlier testified that

 8   some days there would be as many as seven employees on this

 9   renovation project, is that true?

10             MR. STEELE:           Object to the form.

11             THE WITNESS:          I don't think so.   You know,

12   I -- I remember three or four, I remember Mr.

13   bringing maybe two of his stepsons and a neighbor, and

14   basically -- maybe Mr.              bringing his stepson or

15   somebody like that, I mean, basically, I got two people, I

16   got        and I got        , and they found other people

17   that we needed, we put them to work, we had something to

18   do.

19             BY MR. WOLFE:

20             Q    Well, Mr.                  , did he work at

21   all on any of these projects?

22             A    He worked on the driveway and maybe the
 1   fence.   I'm not certain, I'm sorry.

 2                Q     And who hired Mr.                   ?

 3                A     I hired Mr.         .

 4                Q     So is it fair to say that on this

 5   remodeling job, which could entail -- I have five to seven

 6   projects at one time, there might have been as many as four

 7   or five employees at the job site?

 8                MR. STEELE:          I'm just going to object,

 9   and you can keep using the word, I object to the use of the

10   word “employees,” because I think that's a legal term of

11   art, and that's not our position, but I don't want to keep

12   interrupting, so if I can have a standing objection to your

13   --

14                MR. WOLFE:          You can have a standing

15   objection.

16                MR. STEELE:         Thank you.

17                BY MR. WOLFE:

18                Q    Now you -- you can answer the question now,

19   and if you need it --

20                A    You know, I think there was anywhere

21   between three to six, three to five, I don't know.

22                Q    Okay.
 1             A     There was at least three, and some days

 2   there was five, six or seven, some days there was none, --

 3             Q     Okay.

 4             A     -- and who they were, I couldn't tell you.

 5   I actually forgot about Mr.            until he was mentioned

 6   today.

 7             Q     But you did hire Mr.              ?

 8             A     Yeah, he worked three to four days.

 9             Q     And you hired him and you paid him an

10   hourly rate, somewhere less than       an hour?

11             A    Yes.

12             Q    And did you keep track of his time?

13             A    No.

14             Q    Did he turn his time in to you?

15             A    The end of the day he walked up, I said

16   “How long were you here?”

17             Q    And he would tell you that?

18             A    He'd tell me that and I'd pay him.

19             Q    Okay.    And then you would take the amount

20   of time that he was there, multiply it by hours, and then

21   you would pay him?

22             A    Correct.
 1                Q     Is that routine for all the other people

 2   that were working on this project?

 3                A     Correct.

 4                Q     So they would come up to you, you knew what

 5   the hourly rate was they did, they would report the hours

 6   to you, --

 7                A     Correct.

 8                Q     -- you would, in your mind, know whether or

 9   not they were in the ballpark, I would imagine, --

10              A      Correct.

11              Q      -- you were there through most of the day

12   so you knew if someone was working or not working, --

13              A      Correct.

14              Q      -- and then you'd say ”Okay,      , you were

15   here eight hours, I'm paying you       bucks an hour,” and

16   you'd go         8's are     , and you'd give him   ?

17              A      Correct.

18              Q      Nobody got paid weekly or at the beginning

19   or end of the jobs?

20              A      No.

21              Q      So everybody was basically working as an

22   hourly employee, given the objection Mr. Steele has?
1              A       They were there, yeah, they were to be paid

2    by the hour.

3              Q       So we talked about the retaining wall, did

4    you have to pour any type of footer system for that

5    retaining wall?

6              A       Stacked it right on top of the cement pad.

7              Q       Next you talked about a porch.    Was there a

8    porch completely designed and built?

9              A       It's a porch, I mean, design was we ordered

10   stock trusses and built around those, if that makes sense

11   to you.

12             Q       And who ordered the stock trusses?

13             A       I did.

14             Q       Okay.    Who paid for the stock trusses?

15             A       I did.

16             Q       Who had them delivered?

17             A       I did.

18             Q       So was that porch there or you just --

19   there wasn't one there before then?

20             A       That's correct.

21             Q       And the siding, you said there was a siding

22   project, what did that entail?
1              A     Removing old, replacing with new.

2              Q     So the project for the siding was you had

3    the workers remove the entire siding on the house?

4              A     Yes.

5              Q     And you had the workers put up all new

6    siding?

7              A     Correct.

8              Q     And who picked out the siding?

9              A     I did.

10             Q    Who ordered the siding?

11             A    I did.

12             Q    Who paid for the siding?

13             A    I did.

14             Q    Who had it delivered?

15             A    I did.

16             Q    Who oversaw the tearing off and the putting

17   on the new siding?

18             A    I mean, it was pretty basic.   I mean, I

19   looked at it, I mean, tear it off, put it on, I mean, --

20             Q    Okay.

21             A    -- it was pretty basic.

22             Q    Did you tell which one of the workers was
 1   on which project, because Mr.                said that you had him

 2   on the fence and then you had him on the driveway, so you

 3   would tell him any day which project he was working on?

 4                A      Weather dictated a lot, so, you know, it

 5   just depended on the weather.

 6                Q      So if I came -- if I was one of your

 7   workers and I came in there that day and it looked like it

 8   might rain in the afternoon, you might tell me “Go work on

 9   the fence, let's not work on this today”?

10                A      Yeah, it depends.    It depends what kind of

11   mood they were in and what they felt like doing.

12                Q      Okay.    But again, you would tell which

13   worker which project he was working on?

14                A      I'd usually tell         to get something

15   done and let him run with it.

16                Q      So some of the times you would direct to

17            and then           would direct to the other workers?

18                A      Yeah.

19                Q      But         was not a subcontractor?

20                A      No.

21                Q              was just working for you on an hourly

22   basis?
 1             A     Correct.

 2             Q     Does        have a contracting license?

 3             A     Not that I'm aware of.

 4             Q     And to the best of your knowledge, none of

 5   the individuals that were working for you, none of the

 6   workers, had any contractor license at all?

 7             A     That's correct.

 8             Q     Okay.   Now --

 9                   So the workers who were working on the

10   remodeling of the home at                , I have

11             , correct?

12             A    Correct.

13             Q                       ?

14             A    Correct.

15             Q                   ?

16             A    Not certain.

17             Q                   ?

18             A    Not certain.

19             Q                               ?

20             A    Yes.

21             Q    Okay, any other workers you can think

22   about?
1              A     No.

2              Q     And then we had someone who did the hauling

3    away of the debris?

4              A     Someone did the hauling away, yeah, and

5    there's -- there's a couple more people and I just cannot

6    think who they are.

7              Q     Okay, so there was a couple other workers,

8    there could have been as many as seven workers on this

9    remodeling project?

10             A    There could have been, --

11             Q    Okay.

12             A    -- I'm not certain.

13             Q    Now this remodeling project, we've been

14   talking mainly about the outside, was there a remodeling

15   done on the inside of the house?

16             A    There was some cosmetic stuff done.

17             Q    What remodeling was done on the inside?

18             A    Painting, a replacement of kitchen

19   cabinets, replacement of doors, and new floor coverings, I

20   do believe.

21             Q    And you say floor coverings, do you mean

22   entire new flooring?
 1             A     Carpet, tile, and some hardwoods.

 2                      That was done in -- we couldn't enter the

 3   house until             , that was done after             .

 4             Q     Okay, so is it fair to say that the

 5   remodeling of the inside took place after             ?

 6             A     Correct.

 7             Q     And the remodeling of the outside, was that

 8   all completed by             ?

9              A     I do not think so.

10             Q    Okay, so you were still working on the

11   seven outside projects, maybe after             ?

12             A    Well, I'm sure some of them were completed,

13   I couldn't tell you exactly which ones.    It's like a big --

14   it's like a cook book.    You put all these ingredients in

15   the recipe and once you come out with a cake, and how in

16   the heck you got there, sometimes you scratch your head.       I

17   just know I needed a place for my family and I to live

18   beginning in       , and so I did whatever it took.

19             Q    And the kitchen, was the entire kitchen

20   cabinets replaced?

21             A    Yes.

22             Q    Was the kitchen floor replaced?
 1             A     Yes.

 2             Q     How much floors through the house, which

 3   floors were replaced?

 4             A     I put in -- 65, 85, -- approximately 200

 5   square feet of tile, approximately 65 yards of carpet, and

 6   1000 feet of hardwood.

 7             Q     Okay, and which workers, if you remember,

 8   worked on which one of the remodeling projects on the

 9   inside?

10             A    Just         , and sometimes he brought

11   somebody with him, sometimes he didn't.          was the main

12   guy on the inside.

13             Q             was the main guy.

14             A    (Witness indicating affirmatively.)

15             Q    And you paid him everyday?

16             A    Paid him daily, yes.

17             Q    Based on an hourly wage?

18             A    Yes.

19             Q    And you oversaw which projects he was

20   working on on the inside?

21             A    Yes.

22             Q    Okay.     So you'd say “Hey, we're going to
 1   work in the kitchen, we're going to do a tear-out today,

 2        ,” he'd tear out the kitchen cabinets, then maybe the

 3   next day you'd say “Hey, we've got to fix the sheetrock and

 4   get it ready, so we can put the new cabinets up”?

 5             A     Or I'd say, “Hey,         , in two days, I'm

 6   going to be on the street with three dogs and staying at

 7   Super 8, so let's get moving,” --

 8             Q     Okay.

 9             A     -- so that was the point.

10             Q    So you had to come in and ramrod the inside

11   job a little bit probably to get things done?

12             A    There were several days that I worked 20

13   hours a day, worked throughout the night painting or

14   whatever, I did the majority of the painting myself, and

15   the hardwoods myself, and that type of stuff, yeah, it was

16   tough.

17             Q    Okay.

18             A    It was an unrealistic dream that, you know,

19   Rome was built in a day and it's not.

20             Q    So is it fair to say, on the inside, you

21   actually took a hands-on to help with the remodeling, on

22   the outside, you were more supervisory?
 1               A   I think both, hands-on both places, I mean,

 2   you know, picking up trash or whatever, it's -- I guess it

 3   depends how you look at it, I mean, I can't agree or

 4   disagree.

 5               Q   So you did both?

 6               A   Yeah, I did whatever it took.

 7               Q   So you'd supervise the workers on the

 8   outside or you'd jump in and help if needed?

 9               A   I did whatever needed to be done.

10               Q   Okay.

11                   And on the inside, you ended up doing a lot

12   of hands-on, it sounds, from what you told me?

13               A   Yeah, I'm a helluva painter, just don't let

14   me paint your house.

15               Q   Now how did it come about that you hired

16   Mr.         ?

17               A   I talked to        at     t, I know him

18   just by stopping in there and grabbing whatever I need at

19   the end of the day or a cup of coffee in the morning.   He

20   said he was looking for some extra work, I said “Timing is

21   good,” I said “I've got a driveway to tear out,” and I said

22   “Can you be here in the morning?” and he said “No problem.”
 1             Q       Now Mr.            told you that at            ,

 2   or       did?

 3             A                -- I don't know       's last name.

4              Q                    , is that possible?

5              A       I just know him by         .

 6             Q       Okay, so there was a guy named            at

 7          , --

8              A       A cashier at           .

 9             Q       -- and he was employed at             , --

10             A       Right.

11             Q       -- and you go in there all the time, stop

12   and get something to eat?

13             A       Yeah, we became -- I mean, did I know his

14   name, I just knew it because of his name tag, --

15             Q       Okay.

16             A       -- and somehow he said he was looking to

17   earn some extra money and it just worked out well, and I

18   said “Well, I've got a driveway I've got to tear out,” and

19   he said “Fine.”    I said, you know, “Can you meet me here in

20   the morning,” at whatever time, I can't remember.

21             Q       And did you agree on how much you would

22   hire him for?
 1               A     I don't remember.

 2               Q     And how much were you paying him?      It was

 3   by the hour?

 4               A     He never showed up.

 5               Q     Oh, he never showed up?

 6               A     No.

 7               Q     Okay.   So what happened next?

 8               A     I think, it was either the next day or the

 9   following day, he called me, said “Hey, I can't do it,” for

10   whatever reason, I don't know, “my father or stepfather” --

11   which was Mr.           , he said “I'll send him instead.”     He

12   said “Do you mind?”     I said “Do you recommend him?”    He

13   said “He has fifteen years experience.”     I said “I'd love

14   to have him.”

15               Q    Okay, and when did you first talk to Mr.

16           ?   Did he show up or did you call him or did he call

17   you?

18               A    He called me, and I don't know how he got

19   there, showed up.   A wonderful person, hard worker,

20   dedicated, and he was -- that's all I wanted to see,

21   somebody that's going to be reliable and is going to work

22   hard.
 1             Q     And that's really what you want, you want a

 2   worker that's going to show up, do the job, and do a good

 3   job?

 4             A     Yes.

 5             Q     Did you ever have to go pick him up and

 6   take him -- bring him to work?

 7             A     I do believe I probably did two or three

 8   times for the couple weeks that he worked.

 9             Q     And did Mr.         indicate that he just

10   was a basic laborer for contractors for most of his career?

11             A    You know, I think the conversation -- you

12   know, we did speak in the car and, you know, he said he had

13   a lot of experience, that he really enjoyed this work, you

14   know, he illuminated all the stuff that he could do, and I

15   said “As long as you're comfortable, I'd love to have you.”

16             Q    And did you all discuss how much you were

17   going to pay him?

18             A    Yeah, we discussed, I think,       an hour,

19   and something tells me, I could be wrong on this, I think I

20   gave him a raise to    , I mean, he wasn't there that long,

21   so, you know, I can't remember, I do apologize.

22             Q    So is it fair to say you hired him at an
 1   hourly rate of          an hour, at the end of the day you would

 2   pay him for the hours that he worked, and he seemed to be a

 3   real good worker and you gave him a raise after a short

 4   period of time?

 5              A      That's -- the best of my knowledge, that's

 6   correct.

 7              Q      Did you ever fill out a W-2 or a W-9 or any

 8   kind of forms to send in?

 9              A      No.

10              Q      You just paid him cash at the end of the

11   day?

12              A      I paid him cash for a day laborer, correct.

13              Q      If you wanted to fire Mr.          , though,

14   if you didn't like his work, you could have fired him,

15   right?

16              A      Yeah, or if he didn't like the work he was

17   doing, he didn't have to come.

18              Q      He could have quit?

19              A      Yeah.    I mean, believe me, I have nothing

20   but the upmost respect for him and it just -- I don't know,

21   he's just a great guy, I'll leave it at that.

22              Q      Now Mr.           never indicated to you that
 1   he was any kind of contractor, had a contractor's license

 2   or anything like that?

 3             A       No, he indicated to me that he did have a

 4   lot of experience and he told me who he worked for, and I

 5   don't know the guy, but I did recognize the name.

 6             Q       But he never said “I have a contractor's

 7   license,” did he?

 8             A       Not that I'm aware of, not that I remember.

 9             Q       And he never gave you a bid for doing work

10   as a contractor out at the                  property?

11             A       No, I mean, the work scoped from

12   everything, from tearing up a driveway, to cutting grass,

13   to painting basement floors, to chasing a dog down the

14   street, I mean, it just -- on any given day, you didn't

15   know what you were going to do.

16             Q       But he was a worker that you paid hourly to

17   do work, --

18             A       Correct.

19             Q       -- he was not someone that gave you a bid

20   to contract to do work?

21             A       Correct.   I mean, he came in everyday and

22   got paid daily.
 1               Q   Okay.

 2                   And Mr.           did not go and buy the

3    roofing material for the roof, did he?

4                A   That's correct.

 5               Q   Mr.         didn't go out and rent the

 6   jackhammer, did he?

 7               A   No.

 8               Q   Mr.         didn't go out and rent any

 9   backhoes or ditch witches or anything of that nature?

10               A   No.

11               Q   Were you working on a gas line when Mr.

12           fell?

13               A   I was talking to the gas company.

14               Q   Okay, because someone said there was a

15   backhoe or something going in the background, was there

16   noise going on in the background?

17               A   I don't know.

18               Q   Okay.

19               A   I can't remember, I don't know.

20               Q   Did you have to run a new gas line to the

21   property?

22               A   Yes.
1                Q   Okay, and did you oversee that project?

2                A   Yes.

3                Q   So did you use a ditch witch and a complete

4    new line?

5                A   Just stuck the new line to the old line.

6                Q   I'm confused, explain that to me.

7                A   Old line is an inch and something, new line

8    is skinnier, just slide it through, I mean, --

9                Q   Okay, --

10               A   -- how easy is that, slide it through.

11               Q   Well, I don't have your experience, so new

12   gas line had to be provided to take gas from the valve to

13   the house itself?

14               A   Correct.

15               Q   Okay, and you ran a new flex line through

16   the old line?

17               A   Correct.

18               Q   What was the old line made out of?

19               A   I assume some type of iron black pipe, I

20   guess it's cast iron, I don't know, it was black -- black

21   pipe is what I call it.

22               Q   And you did that project yourself or did
1    you have one of the workers do it?

2              A      I did it, because, I mean, you just take a

3    piece and shove it through until it comes out, then the gas

4    company hooks it up.

5              Q      Okay, how many feet did you have to run the

6    new flex line?

7              A      Approximately 30.

8              Q      30 feet of that?

9              A      (Witness indicating affirmatively.)

10             Q      Okay.

11                    And you -- that was another -- I guess

12   running new gas lines would have been another project?

13             A      Yeah, I mean, that was something

14   unforeseen, because we started smelling gas out there.

15             Q      Had you had any experience running gas

16   lines before?

17             A      No, but it was pretty easy.

18             Q      Okay, well, good.

19                    I'm going to go ahead and go through some

20   pictures here.

21                    The first picture I'm going to show you, --

22             MR. WOLFE:            And we'll mark this as
 1   Deposition Exhibit Number 3, and I actually brought copies

 2   for Ms.         .

 3                       (Producing photograph.)

 4                              (WHEREUPON, the photograph

5                               referred to was marked

6                               for identification as

7                                      Deposition

8                               Exhibit Number 3,

9                               a copy of which is

10                              attached hereto and

11                              made a part hereof.)

12             BY MR. WOLFE:

13             Q         (Producing Exhibit Number 3.)

14                       Now is this the property at              ?

15             A         (Witness reviewing photograph.)

16                       Yes.

17             Q         And this is a picture taken of the front of

18   the property?

19             A         Yes.

20             Q         And I see a pile of gravel there off to the

21   side, so this would have been prior to the driveway

22   concrete project being completed.
 1               A      Yes.

 2               Q      Is that the new or the old roof on this

 3   roof?

 4               A      I can't tell you.     Do you have a date on

 5   this one?

 6               Q      I don't, they were provided to me.

 7               A      I don't know, --

 8               Q      Okay.

 9               A      -- I can't tell from the photo.

10               Q    But that's -- do you know when the drive-

11   -- do you know what stage this was, do you have any idea

12   when this picture was taken?

13               A    No idea.

14               Q    But that is a fair and accurate picture of

15   that property at          --

16               A    Correct.

17               Q    --              ?   Okay.

18               MR. WOLFE:               The next picture will be

19   Number 4.

20                      (Producing photograph.)

21                              (WHEREUPON, the photograph

22                              referred to was marked
 1                           for identification as

2                                    Deposition

3                            Exhibit Number 4,

4                            a copy of which is

5                            attached hereto and

6                            made a part hereof.)

7              BY MR. WOLFE:

 8             Q        (Producing Exhibit Number 4.)

 9             A        (Witness reviewing photograph).

10             Q    I see some dirt here.         So in picture Number

11   4, again, that's a fair and accurate picture of the

12   property at                 ?

13             A    Yeah.

14             Q    What is that dirt there on that corner?

15             A    I don't understand, counselor.

16             Q    Okay, I see a pile of dirt down in the

17   right corner, --

18             A    Okay.

19             Q    -- I just wonder was that from excavation

20   done?

21             A    The driveway -- we made it bigger, if that

22   makes sense, I had to dig down 6 inches, and saving the
 1   dirt for topsoil.

 2             Q     Okay, so you actually had to make the --

 3             MR. WOLFE:            And I have another picture

4    we'll make Number 5.

5                    (Producing photograph.)

6                           (WHEREUPON, the photograph

 7                          referred to was marked

 8                          for identification as

 9                                 Deposition

10                          Exhibit Number 5,

11                          a copy of which is

12                          attached hereto and

13                          made a part hereof.)

14             BY MR. WOLFE:

15             Q    (Producing Exhibit Number 5.)

16             A    (Witness reviewing photograph.)

17             Q    The next one, I think, is a little bit

18   better.

19             A    This might help explain it.      The driveway,

20   when we bought the existing property, just ran in front of

21   the garage and I needed more parking so I wouldn't have to

22   be a valet everyday, so I made the driveway another eight
 1   feet wider.   Is that a help to you?

 2             Q     Yeah, that helps.

 3                    So that dirt, did you have a backhoe or

 4   something to do that excavation work?

 5             A     Yes.

 6             Q     Who ran the backhoe?

 7             A     I did, --

 8             Q     Okay, and --

 9             A     -- and         did.

10             Q     Okay.

11                    And who rented the backhoe?

12             A     I did.

13             Q     Okay, where did you rent the backhoe from?

14             A     That rental place down next to the

15          garage, I cannot think of the name of it.

16             Q     Okay.

17                    And if I look on this picture, there seems

18   -- is that the fence in the back, behind the property?

19             A     That's correct.

20             Q     And then I see -- it looks like something

21   is yellow, that's a water hose in the front?

22             A     Yes.
1               Q     What is this in the front bottom part of

2    the picture?    I see something that looks like concrete,

3    what is that?   Is that the street?

4               A     Yes.

5               Q     What is the pitch on that roof?

6               A     It's either a 4/12 or a 5/12, I'm not

7    certain.

8               Q     And for those of us that don't know that,

9    what's a 5/12 pitch?

10              A     It rises 5 inches every foot.

11              Q     So every horizontal foot that I go back

12   would be a rise in the pitch in the roof of 5 inches?

13              A     Correct.

14              Q     And you believe that's a 4/12 or a 5/12

15   roof?

16              A     One of the two.

17              Q     One of the two, okay.

18                     Now was this the new siding or had the

19   siding been replaced at this point?

20              A     It's the old siding.

21              Q     That's the old siding, so this entire

22   siding would have been torn off and then new siding put on?
 1                A    Yes.

 2                Q    I'll show you the next picture, --

 3                COURT REPORTER:       Number 6.

 4                MR. WOLFE:            This will be Number 6.

5                       (Producing photograph.)

6                              (WHEREUPON, the photograph

 7                             referred to was marked

 8                             for identification as

 9                                    Deposition

10                             Exhibit Number 6,

11                             a copy of which is

12                             attached hereto and

13                             made a part hereof.)

14             BY MR. WOLFE:

15             Q       (Producing Exhibit Number 6.)

16                      Is this the rear of the property at

17            ?

18             A       (Witness reviewing photograph.)

19                      Yes.

20             Q       And it looks to be like a roofed porch

21   area, was that porch a project?

22             A       Yes.
1                Q   So this whole triangle roof and the deck

2    underneath was not on the original property?

3                A   That's correct.

4                Q   So that was completely added on?

5                A   Correct.

6                Q   And who designed the size of that deck?

7                A   The trusses dictated the design, because I

8    got stock trusses and whatever they were, we built to match

9    those.

10               Q   So you went with the stock trusses because

11   -- what's a truss?

12               A   It's a fabricated material that holds up

13   the roof.

14               Q   Okay, so you had pre-made trusses, that

15   would dictate, and they come in various sizes?

16               A   Correct.

17               Q   So you went with standard sizes on design

18   of that roof?

19               A   Correct.

20               Q   And did you do standard lengths in the

21   design of the deck itself, too?

22               A   I don't think there's such a thing as
1    standard, because you have boards and various things, I

2    don't think that really had anything to play into it, I

3    just think the roof size did, --

4              Q      Okay.

5              A      -- the truss size did.

6              Q      But you're the one that determined the size

7    that you wanted the deck and the roof to be, you could have

8    had larger trusses or shorter trusses?

9              A      Yeah, I could have had any size I wanted,

10   but, you know, like I said, the cost and the size that they

11   had there kind of dictated that.

12             Q      That dictated that, but you made a decision

13   on --

14             A      Yeah, I made the decision.

15             Q      You made the decision, you made the

16   decision on what pitch to have on that porch roof?

17             A      Yeah, because the stock trusses only come

18   in a certain pitch.

19             Q      But if you wanted to make your own trusses

20   and have a steeper pitch, you could have made that

21   decision, too?

22             A      Correct.
 1             Q     The materials kind of dictated which

 2   choices you made?

 3             A     Correct.

 4             Q     Okay.

 5                   But it was your choice?

6              A     Correct.

 7             MR. WOLFE:             The next picture, Number 7.

8                    (Producing photograph.)

9                            (WHEREUPON, the photograph

10                           referred to was marked

11                           for identification as

12                                  Deposition

13                           Exhibit Number 7,

14                           a copy of which is

15                           attached hereto and

16                           made a part hereof.)

17             BY MR. WOLFE:

18             Q    Again, this is the rear of the property

19   showing a porch and deck.

20                   (Producing Exhibit Number 7.)

21             A    (Witness reviewing photograph.)

22             Q    If you look, you can actually see the pre-
1    made trusses up under the roof, is that what that is?

2              A     Yes.

3              Q     Okay, why don't you write on there where

4    the trusses are, if you would.   Go ahead and put “trusses”

5    for those of us that don't know.

6              A     (Witness complies.)

7              Q     Now I see little metal squares, what's

8    those little metal squares in the center --

9              A     That's part of the truss manufacturing.

10   Actually what they're called, I'm not certain.

11             Q    And I see a little white edge going up and

12   around, what is that white edge called?

13             A    On the roof line?

14             Q    Yeah.

15             A    A drip edge.

16             Q    Okay.   Put “drip edge” on there.

17             A    (Witness complies.)

18             Q    Now was this -- how was this affixed to the

19   main house?

20             A    I'm not certain, I think they bolted it, --

21             Q    Okay.

22             A    -- I'm not certain.
 1              Q    Okay.

 2                   Did you determine the location of where you

 3   wanted this deck to be on the               property?

 4              A    Yeah.

 5              Q    Now if I look down in there, I see an air

 6   conditioner unit.

 7              A    Correct.

 8              Q    Okay, could you write “air conditioner

 9   unit” on that, please?

10              A   (Witness complies.)

11                   Is “AC” all right, sir?

12              Q   That's fine.

13              A   (Witness complies.)

14              Q   Now that's the actual unit that Mr.

15   fell on?

16              A   That's correct.

17              Q   What is the height from the ground to the

18   start of the roof line?

19              A   I believe 16 feet, I don't know.

20              Q   So that height is approximately 16 feet?

21              A   Would be my guess.

22              Q   Could you go ahead and put that into the
 1   picture?

 2                A    (Witness complies.)

 3                Q    So this would be the height that Mr.

 4              was working from when he was working on the roof?

5                 A    Correct.

 6                Q    And that is the height that he fell?

 7                A    Correct.

 8                Q    Was the air conditioning unit itself

 9   covered at the time that he fell, do you know?

10               A     I don't know.

11               MR. WOLFE:            (Producing photograph.)

12               COURT REPORTER:       This one is Number 8.

13                            (WHEREUPON, the photograph

14                            referred to was marked

15                            for identification as

16                                   Deposition

17                            Exhibit Number 8,

18                            a copy of which is

19                            attached hereto and

20                            made a part hereof.)

21               BY MR. WOLFE:

22               Q     Exhibit Number 8, --
 1                     (Producing Exhibit Number 8.)

 2             A      (Witness reviewing photograph.)

 3                     -- this is the air conditioner unit that

4    Mr.           landed on?

5              A      (Witness indicating affirmatively.)

 6                     Yes.

7              Q      Okay.

 8             A      I'm sorry.

 9             Q      Okay.

10                     And this is a fair and accurate picture of

11   the condition of what it would have been right after he

12   fell on it, even though the picture might have been taken

13   later?

14             A      As far as I know, yes.

15             MR. WOLFE:              (Producing photograph.)

16                            (WHEREUPON, the photograph

17                            referred to was marked

18                            for identification as

19                                   Deposition

20                            Exhibit Number 9,

21                            a copy of which is

22                            attached hereto and
 1                          made a part hereof.)

2              BY MR. WOLFE:

 3             Q     Now, today, all of these remodeling

 4   projects have been done, have they not?

 5             A     Correct.

 6             Q     And is this -- I'm going to show you this

 7   picture, which is Deposition Exhibit --

 8             COURT REPORTER:       9.

 9             BY MR. WOLFE:

10             Q    -- 9, --

11                   (Producing Exhibit Number 9.)

12             A    (Witness reviewing photograph.)

13             Q    -- is this a fair and accurate picture of

14   what the property at                 looks like today?

15             A    Yes.

16             Q    And is that a -- so this is the new

17   driveway, so that's actually showing where the new driveway

18   is?

19             A    Yes.

20             Q    And as I look at this picture and look at

21   an older picture, I can see that there's a new roof, new

22   siding, new front door, correct?
1              A     Correct.

2              Q     It looks like there's been, on the first

3    level, new shingles, correct, -- or not -- new shutters?

4              A     Correct.

5              Q     And it looks like there's new windows that

6    have been placed on the first level, correct?

7              A     Correct.

8              Q     And it looks like there's new windows that

9    have been placed on the second level, correct?

10             A    Correct.

11             Q    It looks like there's a new garage door?

12             A    Correct.    I don't see a garage door in this

13   picture, but there is a new one.

14             Q    That's -- yeah.

15                   It looks like there's a new lighting --

16   outdoor lighting system?

17             A    Correct.

18             Q    A new mailbox?

19             A    Correct.

20             Q    A new driveway?

21             A    Yes.

22             Q    Let's see.
 1                    New downspouting?

 2              A    Correct.

 3              Q    And new guttering with the new roof,

 4   correct?

 5              A    Correct.

 6              Q    So from this picture, it looks to be quite

 7   an extensive remodeling job that was done at the

 8              property, would you agree?

 9              A    I don't know how extensive, it's just that

10   stuff needed to be done to make the house liveable.

11              Q    Okay.   And if we looked at a picture of the

12   back side, it would -- comparable, -- have the same

13   remodeling, again --

14              A    Correct, sir.

15              Q    -- roof, siding, windows, all that was done

16   completely around the house?

17              A    No shutters in the back.

18              Q    No shutters in the back, but other than

19   that, it was completely redone around the property?

20              A    Correct.

21              Q    And then we have the new deck with the new

22   roof in the back, and the new fence in the back, and we
 1   have what we've referred to earlier as a retaining wall,

 2   which just might be a dividing wall?

 3             A       Just a wall.

 4             Q       Okay.

 5                     I'll go ahead and show you this next

 6   picture, which will be Deposition Exhibit Number --

 7             MR. WOLFE:               (Producing photograph.)

 8             COURT REPORTER:          10.

 9                             (WHEREUPON, the photograph

10                             referred to was marked

11                             for identification as

12                                    Deposition

13                             Exhibit Number 10,

14                             a copy of which is

15                             attached hereto and

16                             made a part hereof.)

17             BY MR. WOLFE:

18             Q       (Producing Exhibit Number 10.)

19                     -- 10, --

20             A       (Witness reviewing photograph.)

21             Q       -- in the peak of that roof line, is that a

22   venting system?
1                 A   It's a vent.

2                 Q   That's a vent, and that was a new vent that

3    was added?

4                 A   No.

5                 Q   That was the old?

6                 A   Yes.

7                 Q   Is that -- the fence in the back that's now

8    painted, is that a different fence or the same fence?

9                 A   The same.

10               Q    The same fence, okay.

11                    I see an air conditioner -- is that an air

12   conditioner unit on this side of the house?

13               A    Correct.

14               Q    Was there a new HVAC system put in?

15               A    No.

16               Q    Is that the old one?

17               A    No.    It's a new air conditioner.

18               Q    A new air conditioner was also placed in?

19               A    A new air conditioner, not a heating

20   system, just an air conditioner only.

21               Q    How many air conditioners are there in this

22   property?
 1             A     One.

 2             Q     So is that -- the one that was on the back

 3   side of the house, was that actually functioning or set up

 4   to function at the time of the fall?

 5             A     It was working at the time of the fall, and

 6   actually, after the fall, it didn't work.

 7             Q     And then was it relocated --

 8             A     Yes.

 9             Q     -- after that?   Okay.

10                   So at the time of the fall,          , 2007,

11   we had a functioning air conditioning unit on the back side

12   of the house, and after Mr.         fell and hurt himself

13   and damaged it, a new system was put in and it was

14   relocated to this side?

15             A    That's correct.   The reason it's relocated

16   to the side is we have a deck in the back and we didn't

17   want to listen to it when we're sitting out back.

18             Q    And who determined the location of that air

19   conditioner unit?

20             A    I did.

21             Q    And did you purchase that air conditioner

22   unit?
1              A        Yes.

2              Q        Did you install that air conditioner unit?

3              A        No.

4              Q        Who did you have install it?

5              A        I don't remember, I don't know.

6              Q        Did you have an air conditioner contractor

7    who does air conditioning work come out?

8              A        He was referred by a friend, I don't know

9    if he was a licensed air conditioner contractor or not, I

10   can't remember.

11             Q       He might have been a worker that was paid

12   hourly?

13             A       He gave me a set price on that project

14   there, I know he wasn't paid hourly.

15             Q       Okay, so that was a bid project by someone

16   that may have been a licensed contractor?

17             A       May have been and may have not been.   He

18   stopped by -- someone called somebody and somebody called

19   somebody, and all at once this guy showed up and put in the

20   air conditioner.

21             Q       Okay.   But he came in and he did a bid job,

22   and when he put the unit in and redid the air conditioning,
 1   you paid him just one time?

 2             A     Yeah, it wasn't a bid job.    He gave me a

 3   price, we agreed on it, and I paid him.

 4             Q     Okay, but you didn't pay him an hourly

 5   rate?

 6             A     No.

 7             Q     He didn't turn his hours in?

 8             A     No.

 9             Q     You didn't calculate his pay and give it to

10   him?

11             A    No.

12             Q    What was the weather like on          , 2007?

13             A    A nice day.

14             Q    The weather was fine?

15             A    The best of my knowledge, -- I know it was

16   fine, yeah, it was a nice day, I can't forget that day.

17             Q    So there wasn't any weather concerns that

18   day?

19             A    No.

20             Q    What had you guys been working on the day

21   before        , if you remember, 2007?

22             A    I'm guessing the roof, --
 1               Q     Okay.

 2               A     -- I'm guessing, I don't know.

 3               Q     Now if Mr.           came to work one day,

 4   you might put him on the fence or you could put him on the

 5   concrete, depending what you needed done that day?

 6               A     Yeah, depending, that and -- yeah, --

 7               Q     Okay.

 8               A     -- you just never knew.

 9               Q     Tell me -- I want you to go through the day

10   of          , just start at the beginning of the day and tell

11   me what you did that day.

12               A    Gosh, I'm trying to think here.

13                     I remember talking to the gas company, --

14   I'm trying to get this in chronological order -- talked to

15         and        ,             and          , tried to get a

16   game plan of what we were going to do, --

17               Q    Now when you get this game plan, would you

18   all meet at a certain place on the property in the morning,

19   have a cup of coffee, be out there by the trucks, did you

20   sit on the porch?

21               A    No really set plan.    I mean, at that point

22   in time, I think one of them arrived, the other one was
1    right behind him, and gathered everybody together and said

2    “What do we feel like doing?” and they said “Well, we're

3    going to finish the roof.”

4                     And at that point in time, I think they

5    were there no longer than -- to me, it seems like that

6    quick (snapping fingers), I'm saying we got together

7    between 7:30 and 8:30, somewhere in that area, and it

8    seemed like the accident happened right then, --

9                 Q   Okay.

10                A   -- I mean, that's all I can remember.

11                Q   So you all would get together in the

12   morning and you'd decide what we're going to work on that

13   day and then the workers would go work on that project?

14                A   Yeah, but you'd -- you'd see what -- check

15   on the weather, see what was going on and see if anybody

16   had to leave early, or what was -- because I didn't want to

17   get into something that was going to cause damage, so we

18   tried to get a little plan that's going to work out for

19   everybody.

20                Q   Okay.

21                A   So we're all -- I think that day, I somehow

22   -- I could be wrong on this, but something tells me that
 1   Mr.              wanted to leave early because he had some type

 2   of weekend trip planned, and I was trying to find something

 3   to keep him busy.      I could be wrong on that, too, I don't

 4   know.

 5                Q      What stage was the roof at this point, do

 6   you know?

 7                A      I want to say it was halfway completed, I'm

 8   guessing at that, too, but that's what my mind is telling

 9   me, I don't remember.

10                Q      Now when you say a roof is halfway, I'm an

11   inexperienced -- I'm just an attorney, okay, so would you

12   tear off one side, put felt, put shingles, or you'd tear

13   the whole thing off, felt the whole thing, and then shingle

14   the whole thing?      What's the system, how do you do that?

15                A      Remove the old shingles, felt, then start

16   shingling.

17                Q      So you'd remove all the shingles from the

18   roof first?

19                A      (Witness indicating affirmatively.)

20                        The stage of the roof there was already --

21   all the old shingles removed, the house was felted, the

22   front half, I think was already reshingled, I'm not
 1   positive, I think.

 2              Q      So on        , 2007, in terms of this

 3   project, you had already had the workers remove all the old

 4   shingles, felt the entire roof, and then they had shingled

 5   the front side of the                   property?

 6              A      Correct.

 7              Q      So on        , was it the plan to shingle

 8   the back side of the property?

 9              A      Yes.

10              Q     Was Mr          to do this, or Mr.

11              , or both?

12              A     Both.

13              Q     And what happened then, did they both go up

14   and start working on it, or did you go work or talk to the

15   gas guy?

16              A     I was in the back, I walked out to talk to

17   the gas guy about getting the gas hooked up, and that's all

18   I remember.    I heard       yelling.

19              Q     So had they actually started to lay

20   shingles at that point?

21              A     No.

22              Q     Were they -- did you have them doing any
1    preparatory work before they laid the shingles down?

2              A        You know, basically, “Here's what we're

3    going to do,” I mean, these guys both were experienced,

4    they knew what had to be done.     I mean, whatever

5    preparatory work, I'm sure they were doing, what it was, I

6    don't know.

7              Q        Okay.

8              A        I mean, we're dealing with two well-

9    qualified individuals that know what they're doing, and,

10   you know, they were both good as gold, just tell them to do

11   something and I could do whatever I needed to do, I mean, I

12   didn't have to be sitting there looking over them, telling

13   them what to do, I mean, they were both very reliable and

14   very good people.

15             Q    So they were both good workers so you could

16   tell them to do something and they would go do it, and

17   because they were good workers, you didn't have to go back

18   again and again?

19             A    Exactly.

20             Q    And except for the incident with the fence,

21   where maybe they were just not real experienced --

22             A    That was just a funny story, I probably
1    shouldn't have went there, but it was just funny at the

2    time.

3              Q     Okay, but if they did something and it

4    would have been wrong, you clearly had the authority to say

5    “Hey, guys, let's not do it that way”?    Let's say they, you

6    know, only tore off one side of the shingled roof and

7    started to put felt paper down, I mean, ultimately, you're

8    the one that could have said “No, let's tear all the

9    shingles off first”?

10             A    Yeah, we could do -- I mean, you could do

11   it either/or, I mean, it's -- you could do half and half or

12   whole and whole, they can decide on that, I mean, it really

13   didn't matter to me.    The only reason we removed the whole

14   shingles is I had a U-Haul -- we had to carry the old

15   shingles away, and I didn't have dump trucks, I didn't have

16   forklifts, I mean, I had to go rent a U-Haul and we stacked

17   the shingles in the U-haul, took them to the dump and

18   disposed of them.

19             Q    And who rented the U-Haul?

20             A    I did.

21             Q    And really, you made a determination on

22   taking all the shingles off at one time, --
1              A      Correct.

2              Q      -- that was your call, --

3              A      Yes, --

4              Q      -- right?

5              A      -- correct.

6              Q      I want you to go ahead and just draw the

7    property with the house, and kind of in the center, because

8    I want you to kind of point out where everybody was when

9    this accident occurred.

10             A      (Witness complies.)

11                    Okay.

12             Q      Okay, where is the street?   Could you show

13   me the street?

14             A      (Witness complies.)

15                    Okay.

16             Q      Okay, where is the front of the house?

17             A      The front.

18                    (Witness complies.)

19             Q      Okay.

20             A      The driveway here (indicating).

21                    I don't draw very good, as you can see, --

22             Q      That's okay.
1              A       -- I'm sorry.

2              Q       Now go ahead and maybe put where the back

3    deck is, --

4              A       (Witness complies.)

5              Q       -- and go ahead and write “Back deck.”

6              A       (Witness complies.)

7              Q       Approximately what time was the fall, do

8    you know, --

9              A       I don't know.

10             Q       -- in the morning?

11             A       It was in the morning, I'm thinking between

12   9:30 and 10:00.

13             THE WITNESS:            Do we have the 9-1-1 call

14   report (referring to Mr. Steele)?

15             BY MR. WOLFE:

16             Q       We can check that.    I'm not -- it's not a

17   test.

18             A       I'm not exactly certain.

19             Q       Okay, and where were you at the time of the

20   fall?

21             A       The driveway.

22             Q       Okay, go ahead and put little initials
1    there.

2                A    (Witness complies.)

3                Q    So you couldn't actually see Mr.          --

4                A    No.

5                Q    -- when he was on there, the roof?

6                     Do you remember Mr.            being up on

7    the roof?

8                A    No.

9                Q    So when you and Mr.            and Mr.

10            met and went through the plan of the day, where did

11   you guys meet that day to plan this work to be done?

12               A   I don't know.

13               Q   Okay.

14               A   Somewhere on the property, exactly --

15               Q   Somewhere on the property.

16                    So, just tell us -- tell us what you

17   remember.   Was the gas company guy there?

18               A   I think.   I was talking to somebody and

19   something tells me in my mind it was somebody from the gas

20   company, somebody from          .

21               Q   So you're talking to somebody, are you

22   facing the house or is your back towards the house?
 1             A        I think I was facing the house.

 2             Q        Did you see anything?

 3             A        Nothing at all.

 4             Q        Okay, what's the first thing you hear?

 5             A        I hear Mr.              yelling for me.

 6             Q        What did he say?

 7             A        I just heard this blood-curdling scream,


 9             Q        And then what did you do?

10             A    Shot around the back of the house, I knew

11   something happened.

12             Q    When you came around, what did you see?

13             A    I seen Mr.             laying right here

14   (indicating on diagram).

15             Q    And where was Mr.                ?

16             A    I don't know.     I'm sure he was close by,

17   but --

18             Q    Okay.

19                      Look at Mr.         in your mind and tell

20   me what you see.

21             A    He was laid up -- he was laid crumpled up

22   and I called 9-1-1.
1                Q   Did he say anything?

2                A   No.

3                Q   Did he make any sounds?

4                A   He was in pain.

5                Q   Okay.

6                A   You could tell he was hurt, seriously.

7                Q   Was he lying in a fetal position?

8                A   I think he was in -- yeah, he was in a

9    little ball.

10               Q   And did you know at that point what had

11   happened?

12               A   No.

13               Q   You didn't know he'd fell off the roof?

14               A   I had a guess, but, you know, -- I knew he

15   fell, I didn't know if he fell off the roof, fell off the

16   ladder, or just fell over, he was on the ground.

17               Q   Okay, and then what happened next?

18               A   I called 9-1-1.

19               Q   You had a cell phone?

20               A   Yes.

21               Q   And then what happened?

22               A   The emergency crew arrived and they left
 1   with him.

 2               Q     Did Mr.         say anything to you at all

 3   before he left?

 4               A     No.

 5               Q     He didn't tell you how he fell or what

 6   happened?

 7               A     No.

 8               Q     Do you have any idea how he fell?

 9               A     I know he felt bad.

10               Q     What about him falling, do you have any

11   idea what caused him to fall?

12               A     No.

13               Q     So have you ever heard, or has anybody ever

14   told you, what caused him to fall?

15               A     No.

16               Q     Did Mr.            ever surmise, that you

17   know, or give any insight on what caused Mr.           to

18   fall?

19               A     No.

20               Q     So Mr.         is taken away by ambulance,

21   --

22               A     Correct.
 1                Q       -- and it's just you and Mr.

 2   there?

 3                A       Yes.

 4                Q       What did you all do then?

 5                A       Tried to get ahold of          family, and

 6   just tried to console and comfort each other at that point

 7   in time.

 8                Q       Now on this house, you didn't have any

 9   safety harnesses for the roof job?

10                A      I don't think they had any safety

11   harnesses.       No, I did not have any, no.

12                Q      Was there any guardrails on this house to

13   protect someone from falling?

14                A      Not that I know of.

15                Q      Was there any personal fall systems used on

16   this house?

17                A      No.

18                Q      Was there any toeboards used on this house?

19                A      I do not know if they used toeboards or

20   not.

21                Q      Now you've heard about people having

22   toeboards and guardrail systems when they work on roofs?
 1                A    No, -- well, wait.     Have I heard?   I'm sure

 2   I have heard.     Have I ever seen it actually in use?     No.

 3                Q    Did anybody do an investigation of this

 4   accident that you know of?

 5                A    I don't know.

 6                Q    I believe you did talk to an insurance

 7   agent from                  and gave her a statement?

 8                A    Yes.

 9                THE WITNESS:           Gentlemen, I hate to do

10   this, I need five more minutes, it's getting a little

11   emotional here, is that all right?

12             MR. WOLFE:                That's fine.

13             VIDEOGRAPHER:             The time is 13:02.   We are

14   off the record.

15                            (WHEREUPON, a recess

16                            was taken, after which

17                            the deposition resumed

18                            and the following

19                            proceedings were had.)

20             VIDEOGRAPHER:             We are back on the record at

21   13:10.

22             BY MR. WOLFE:
 1              Q         Mr.       , I'm going to go through some of

 2   the answers that you gave in discovery.

 3              A         Sure.

 4              Q         In discovery, I asked you to list name,

 5   address and telephone number of all persons that were

 6   present at the scene, and you indicated that

 7                  and             EMS, but also -- you failed to

 8   mention yourself and Mr.              , but you two gentlemen

 9   were at the scene of the accident that day.

10              A         Yes, we were.   Sorry about that.

11              Q         That's okay.

12              MR. STEELE:               Objection, it's not a

13   failure.

14                        Go ahead, you can answer.

15              BY MR. WOLFE:

16              Q         Now in interrogatory number 7, you

17   mentioned Lowe's, Home Depot, Ace Hardware, Hartland's and

18   Sandy's Hardware, and that would be the locations where all

19   the material was purchased by you for this remodeling job?

20              A         I'm saying most of it, I mean, I can't

21   remember everywhere that I ended up grabbing stuff.

22              Q         Interrogatory number 9, we asked the
 1   question to you, “What acts do you believe caused or

 2   contributed to the fall,” is it fair to say you don't know

 3   what acts caused or contributed to the fall of Mr.             ?

 4             A       I do not know.

 5             Q       Is it fair to say that the person who

 6   oversaw and was responsible for making sure that the

 7   workers did the project right would be you yourself?

 8             A       I think a combination of myself and them.

 9   They knew what had to be done, they were quite capable.

10             Q       Now you don't have any pay stubs, canceled

11   checks, or any tax withholding forms that you required Mr.

12           or Mr.              or any other workers fill out?

13             A       That's correct.

14             Q       Interrogatory number 5, I asked you to list

15   all the workers or subcontractors that were involved in the

16   remodeling of                .

17                     Is it fair to say that the workers that

18   were involved were                  ,                , maybe

19                 ,           , and                           , that

20   you can remember today?

21             A       The best of my knowledge.   I know there was

22   a couple of others, and I do apologize for not remembering
 1   who they are.    I do apologize for that.

 2                Q   But there was no licensed subcontractors

 3   involved in the remodeling of the                 property?

 4                A   Not that I'm aware of.

 5                Q   I'm just going to go through the Complaint

 6   and Answer real quick, just to see if there's anything --

 7                A   Take your time, sir.

 8                Q   -- that jumps out at me.

 9                A   It's your dime and my time, so just take

10   your time.

11                Q   (Reviewing documents.)

12                     And you have no testimony or evidence today

13   that Mr.          put himself out as an independent

14   contractor, do you?

15                A   I do not know, I mean, -- I don't know.

16                Q   You have no testimony about or know

17   anything about his injuries or anything about what he

18   suffered from, what he had before or after, you don't know

19   anything about his injuries that he has or --

20                A   No, I don't.

21                Q   Have you seen him at all since today and

22   the day of the fall, have you --
 1              A     Yes.

 2              Q     How many times have you seen Mr.        ?

 3              A     Two or three.

 4              Q     Did you all just kind of like “Hi,” or did

 5   you talk about the case, or --

 6              A     We talked, you know, and -- I don't know

 7   exactly what happened, it was just -- people were stalking

 8   me and getting phone calls and I just felt like it was best

 9   to stay away.

10              Q     But there's no statements that Mr.

11   made, “Here's what happened,” or statements that you made,

12   “Here's what happened,” if you've seen him, it's just been

13   cordial?

14              A     It's been cordial.   I like Mr.        and

15   I -- I just like the man.

16              Q     And the reason I asked you, in case there

17   was evidence that came out in conversations, either things

18   you said or he said, we need to know about it in this

19   deposition, so I -- I know it's touchy, but I have to ask

20   if anything --

21              A     I understand.

22              Q     -- was said of that nature that would shed
1    light on what caused the fall.

2                 A   I asked him, he said he didn't know.   I

3    mean, I don't think anyone knows.

4                 Q   Are you familiar at all, have you ever

5    heard about OSHA standards?

6                 A   I'm familiar with OSHA, I'm not familiar

7    with the standards, no, I'm not.

8                 Q   And what's your familiarity with OSHA?

9                 A   They investigate work-related accidents.

10                Q   29 CFR 1926.16 deals with “Rules of

11   Construction,” I wanted to ask you if you're aware of this,

12   “In no case shall the prime contractor be relieved of

13   overall responsibility for compliance with the requirements

14   of this part for all work to be performed under the

15   contract.”

16                    Are you familiar with that rule of OSHA?

17                A   No, sir.

18                Q   Under 1926.20 it talks about “Contractor

19   Requirements,” “No contractor or subcontractor for any part

20   of the contract work shall require any laborer or mechanic

21   employed in the performance of a contract to work in

22   surroundings or working conditions which are unsanitary,
1    hazardous, or dangerous to his health or safety.”

2                       Are you familiar with that regulation?

3              A        No, sir.

4              Q        “General Safety and Health Provision,”

5    1926.20(b)(1), “Accident Prevention Responsibilities,” “It

6    shall be the responsibility of the employer to initiate and

7    maintain such programs as may be necessary to comply with

8    this part.”

9                       Are you aware of that requirement?

10             A    No, sir.

11             Q    1926.21, “Safety Training and Education,”

12   “Employer Responsibility,” “The employer shall avail

13   himself of the safety and health training programs that the

14   Secretary provides.”

15                      Are you aware of that section?

16             A    No, sir.

17             Q    1926.32(g), “Construction Work,” “For the

18   purpose of this section, construction work means work for

19   construction, alteration and/or repair, including painting

20   and decorating.”

21                      Are you aware of that definition of

22   construction under OSHA?
 1               A   No, sir.

 2               Q   1926.32(j), “Employee,” “Laborer generally

 3   means one who performs manual labor or who labors at an

 4   occupation requiring physical strength.” “Mechanic,”

 5   “Mechanic generally means a worker skilled with tools.”

 6                   Are you aware of that definition?

7                A   No, sir.

 8               Q   Is it fair to say that Mr.          was

 9   performing manual labor for you which required physical

10   strength?

11               A   That's kind of a gray area, I mean, -- I

12   don't know.

13               Q   Okay.

14               A   I'm just trying to think, I'm just kind of

15   glazed over here.

16                   He performed physical labor, -- what was

17   the other thing, counselor?   Sorry.

18               Q   Let me start at the beginning.

19                   “Employee,” “A laborer generally means one

20   who performs manual labor,” that's the first part, --

21               A   Yes.

22               Q   -- would you agree?
 1             A     Yes.

 2             Q     Okay, so you would agree that Mr.          ,

 3   under the definition of “Employee,” was --

 4             MR. STEELE:            I still have that same

 5   standing objection, though, right?

 6             MR. WOLFE:             Yes.

 7             BY MR. WOLFE:

 8             Q     So you would agree that Mr.            was a

 9   laborer who performed manual labor for you?

10             A    Yes.

11             Q    Okay.

12                   The second section is an “or,” so it could

13   be either the first section --

14             A    Okay.

15             Q    -- or the second one.

16             A    I'll just -- I'll agree with that, we don't

17   have to go through all this.

18             Q    Okay.

19                   So you would agree that under the

20   definition of OSHA, Mr.           was a employee?

21             A    Yes.

22             MR. STEELE:            Object to the form.
1              BY MR. WOLFE:

2              Q     Do you know that under OSHA, that you have

3    a duty to provide fall protection?

4              A     No, I didn't.

5              Q     Are you aware of 1926.501, it says “Each

6    employee on a steep roof with unprotected sides and edges 6

7    feet or more above lower levels shall be provided from

8    falling by guardrail systems with toeboards, safety net

9    systems, or personal fall arrest systems.”

10                   Are you aware of that requirement?

11             A    I have a question, and I don't mean to be a

12   smart ass, but, you know, how can you define steep, and

13   after I ask that, then I'll say no, I'm not aware of that.

14             Q    Okay.   If I told you that -- first of all,

15   the roof at the home you were doing remodeling was a 4/12

16   or 5/12 roof, is it not?

17             A    Correct, either/or, --

18             Q    Either/or?

19             A    -- one of the two.

20             Q    And if I would tell you that a 4/12 or

21   greater is defined as steep, would that help you on that?

22             A    Yes.    I mean, I didn't know that -- the
 1   thing, I was just asking, --

 2             Q        That's fair.

 3             A        -- I don't want to be rude or smart.

 4             Q        And that's fair.   And I can pull that out

 5   and find that --

 6             A        No, I trust you, I believe you.

 7             Q        Well, and I will check that to be certain,

 8   but I believe a 4/12 is defined as steep.

 9             A        Okay.   I mean, I believe you, I'm not -- I

10   don't want to be combative or argumentative, --

11             Q      That's okay.

12             A      -- I just wanted to try to get the

13   definition correct.

14             Q      Would you agree that the back side where

15   Mr.           fell is higher than 6 feet?

16             A      Off the ground?

17             Q      Yes.

18             A      Yes.

19             Q      Would you agree that there was no guardrail

20   system in place?

21             A      Not that I know of.

22             Q      There was no toeboards in place, that
 1   you're aware of?

 2             A     Not that I'm aware of.

 3             Q     You didn't provide any safety net system on

 4   the                 property?

5              A     No, I didn't.

 6             Q     You didn't provide any personal fall arrest

 7   systems, did you not?

 8             A     Did not.

 9             Q     Do you know what those various things are?

10   Do I need to read the definitions to you or --

11             A    I do know what they are.

12             Q    You do know what they are?

13             A    Yeah.

14             Q    And is it fair to say that if we had a

15   personal fall arrest system there, Mr.           would not

16   have hit the ground?

17             MR. STEELE:            Objection, speculation.

18                      But you can answer.

19             THE WITNESS:           I don't know.

20             BY MR. WOLFE:

21             Q    Well, if you have a safety net system, what

22   is it designed for, Mr.         ?
1                 A     To make sure someone doesn't hit the

2    ground.

3                 Q     If you have a personal fall arrest system,

4    what is it designed for?

5                 A     To hold them, the rope, to jerk them back

6    up.

7                 Q     What is a guardrail system and toeboards

8    designed for?

9                 A     Catch your toes when they're coming off the

10   roof.

11                MR. WOLFE:          I have copies of all these

12   if you want, these sections (referring to Mr. Steele).

13                BY MR. WOLFE:

14                Q    Are you familiar with what a body belt

15   system is?

16                A    Yes.

17                Q    I'll go ahead and give that to you.

18                      (Producing document.)

19                A    (Witness reviewing document.)

20                COURT REPORTER:     Do you want to mark it?

21                MR. WOLFE:          No, I don't think we need to

22   mark it.
 1             BY MR. WOLFE:

 2             Q     Could you read the section under “Body

 3   Belt”?

 4             A     “Body belt (safety belt) means a strap with

 5   means both for securing it about the waist and for

 6   attaching to a lanyard, lifeline or deceleration device.”

 7             Q     And we didn't have any body belt that

 8   you're aware of on        , 2007?

 9             A     I did not provide no body belts.

10             Q    Could you read what a body harness is,

11   please?

12             A    It “means straps which may be secured about

13   the employee in a manner that will distribute the fall

14   arrest forces over at least the thighs, pelvis, waist,

15   chest and shoulders with means for attaching it to other

16   components of a personal fall arrest system.”

17             Q    And you did not have a body harness system

18   on        , 2007?

19             A    No, I did not.

20             Q    Could you read what a guardrail system is

21   for us?

22             A    “A barrier erected to prevent employees
 1   from falling to lower levels.”

 2             Q     And on          , 2007, did you have a

 3   guardrail system at the       property?

 4             A     I did not.

 5             Q     Could you tell us what a lanyard is?

 6             A     It “means a flexible line of rope, wire

 7   rope, or strap, which generally has a connector at each end

 8   for connecting the body belt or body harness to an

 9   deceleration device, lifeline or anchorage.”

10             Q    And you did not have any lanyards attached

11   to body belts or harnesses on         , 2007?

12             A    I did not.

13             Q    The next page.

14             A    (Witness complies.)

15             Q    What's a personal fall arrest system?

16             A    “A system used to arrest an employee in a

17   fall from a working level.    It consists of an anchorage,

18   connector, a body belt or body harness, which may include a

19   lanyard, deceleration device, lifeline, or suitable

20   combination of these.    As of” --

21             Q    And you did --

22             A    I'm sorry.
 1             Q      I'm sorry, sir, go ahead.

 2             A      No, go ahead, I'm done.

 3             Q      Okay, and you didn't have any personal fall

 4   arrest system?

 5             A      I did not.

 6             Q      Could you tell me what a toeboard is?

 7             A      “A low protective barrier that will protect

 8   the fall of materials and equipment to lower levels and

 9   provide protections from fall for personnel.”

10             Q      Thank you, sir.

11                    In your experience, you have heard and

12   you're aware of these various systems and you did not have

13   any of these systems in place on            , 2007?

14             A      I did not.

15             MR. WOLFE:               (Producing documents.)

16             COURT REPORTER:          Number 11.

17                          (WHEREUPON, the documents

18                          referred to were marked

19                          for identification,

20                          collectively, as

21                                 Deposition

22                          Exhibit Number 11,
 1                           a copy of which is

 2                           attached hereto and

 3                           made a part hereof.)

 4              MR. WOLFE:             This is Deposition Exhibit

 5   11.

 6              BY MR. WOLFE:

 7              Q       I'm going to show you Deposition Exhibit

 8   11, could you tell me what these documents are?

 9                      (Producing Exhibit Number 11.)

10              A       (Witness reviewing documents.)

11                      They're materials for the project at

12                  .

13              Q       And these were provided to me by your

14   attorney, if you want, you can peruse these at your

15   leisure.   Is it fair to say these are fair and accurate

16   copies of receipts for materials used in the remodeling of

17   the                       property?

18              A       Yes, sir.

19              Q       And I see that the first half inch of them

20   is Sandy's True Value Hardware & Home Center?

21              A       Correct.

22              Q       And these would have been copies of the
 1   receipts that you provided to your attorney for material

 2   used in the remodeling of the                  property?

 3             A     Correct.

 4             Q     And a lot of that's just for chain of

 5   custody, that they're --

 6             A     I understand, I understand --

 7             Q     -- they're fair and accurate --

 8             A     -- completely.

 9             Q     -- and they're the same.

10             A    I mean, the best of my knowledge, I mean, I

11   received the copies, took them to Mr. Steele, and

12   apparently he passed them on to you.

13             Q    And I appreciate that.

14             A    And as far as I know, they're accurate.

15   Did I go through them?   No.

16             Q    I just noticed some drywall, was there some

17   drywalling, sheetrocking, done on the inside?

18             A    We did some repairs or -- I had termites or

19   something, I had termites in the basement and I had to

20   replace the paneling with drywall.

21             Q    And about halfway through, I see where it

22   says          and                          , is that the
 1            you used to work at?

 2             A        Correct.

 3             Q        And these also would be fair and accurate

 4   copies of the receipts for the remodeling job of the

 5             property?

 6             A        Correct.

 7             Q        And so these are actual copies of the

 8   receipts, they're accurate, and this would let me know

 9   exactly, as best you could provide for us, what you

10   purchased at            for the remodeling project?

11             A    Correct.

12             Q    Now you also purchased things from some

13   other locations and we haven't been able to get those

14   receipts, but --

15             A    I'm trying, because I had put it on credit

16   cards and I had credit cards get lost, and the banks are

17   going broke, the automakers are broke, no one has the help

18   to do anything anymore.

19             Q    I understand.

20             A    I drive a Toyota, and it's going to take

21   off and go by itself down the road 100 miles an hour.

22             Q    After the accident, no one came up to you
 1   and said “I saw what happened,” or “I heard this,” or even

 2   at the scene, is there anybody at all that we know or we

 3   might suspect can give us insight into the fall?

 4             A       No, sir.

 5             Q       Let me just check my notes real quick.

 6                     (Reviewing document.)

 7                     Ultimately, it was your decision on what

 8   projects Mr.           worked on when he showed up to work on

 9   whatever day it was?

10             A      It was either myself's or          ,

11                 , I mean, either/or.

12             Q      So sometimes you would tell         “We're

13   going to work on this, here's what we're going to do,” and

14         would relay that to Mr.             then?

15             A      Or          would suggest we do something else

16   first, I mean, it's -- like I said, it's like making a

17   cake, all of the ingredients got to be added to get to the

18   final project, either do it today or tomorrow, so, I mean,

19   --

20             Q      But he would get his direction from you, or

21   you would talk to        and          would give the directions

22   for his work on that day?
 1             A     That's correct.

 2             MR. WOLFE:              No other questions.

 3             MR. STEELE:             I don't have any questions.

 4                    We'll waive.

 5             VIDEOGRAPHER:           That concludes this

 6   deposition.   The time is 13:31.

 7                           (Witness stands aside.)

8                            (WHEREUPON, the deposition

9                            was concluded at 3:31 p.m.)

10                           (WHEREUPON, the diagram

11                           referred to was marked

12                           for identification as

13                                   Deposition

14                           Exhibit Number 12, a

15                           copy of which is

16                           attached hereto and

17                           made a part hereof.)
                  REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

          I,                , Certified Court Reporter and
Notary Public within and for the State of West Virginia,
duly commissioned and qualified, do hereby certify that the
foregoing deposition of                        was duly taken
by me and before me at the time and place specified in the
caption hereof, the said witness having been by me first
duly sworn.
          I do further certify that the said deposition was
written out in full and transcribed into the English
language under my supervision and that this deposition is a
true record of the testimony given by the witness; and that
by agreement of the witness, signature was waived.
          I further certify that I am neither attorney or
counsel for, nor related to or employed by, any of the
parties to the action in which this deposition is taken,
and further that I am not a relative or employee of any
attorney or counsel employed by the parties hereto or
financially interested in the action.
                Given under my hand this           day of
                , 2010.
                My commission expires January 26, 2019.

                          Certified Court Reporter
                               Notary Public

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