Q&A
Distributed Energy Road Show Bloomington, MN May 13, 2003 Distributed Energy: The Minnesota Perspective Q: A: Q: A: Regarding your slide that says 5% CIP funding—what does this relate to? This is the amount of funding a utility can receive for distributed energy installations, based on its operating revenues. Are there any state incentives that offer funding? There is a solar rebate program: $2,000 per kilowatt for a grid-connected installation, up to $8,000. This is available only to Excel customers – it will open up next year to others. $1 million is the program cap. Microturbine and recip engine payback is high – what is the Department of Commerce doing about this to encourage the use of DG? We are educating, identifying niche markets, and working with John Cuttica and his group to train targeted sectors. Regarding the Minnesota PUC’s generic tariffs, if I want to set up my own biomass plant, how would I do it? Each utility has a different process, so it depends. The generic tariff is trying to establish a streamlined process for reasonable standby fees, interconnection studies, and interconnection fees to make installation easier. Would a user be required to pay the utility for interconnection studies, etc., even if he/she doesn’t want power from the grid? Yes. Standby fees are paid to utilities to maintain reliability margins and to be available in case the user needs them. Doesn’t that conflict with everything we are talking about today? You can elect to choose less standby power to save money.
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Combined Heat and Power: The Concept Q: A: If losses are so much less using CHP, wouldn’t power companies embrace on site leases of CHP units? They should. There are studies that compare CHP costs to distribution line maintenance costs and it would make sense.
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Alliant Energy has taken the approach of installing and testing CHP units themselves – this is pretty progressive. The have about 10 or 12 units that they are testing and evaluating to learn more about the systems. Q: A: Regarding thermally activated systems – why are solids preferred over liquids? Solid is easier to install with CHP systems – liquids are just a little more difficult to install and use. But, liquids are good to use for hospitals because they essentially wash the air and remove bacteria and other things in addition to humidity.
Comment: Regarding your diagram for backup power – I think you oversimplified this system – it is actually more complex than that. In Minnesota, it would be more complicated, with a generator and switchgear. From a regulatory standpoint, it is too simplified. A: I agree – this was an example to explain the concept in general. People need to do their own economic analysis before making an investment. Also, it’s important to point out that CHP is not easily used as emergency generators, but some hospitals use them for that purpose anyway. Distributed Energy Tariffs & Interconnection in Minnesota
Q: A: Q: A: Q: A: Is there any pre-certified DG equipment in Minnesota?
No, not yet. There aren’t any rules to follow to certify them.
Can a utility pre-certify DG units?
I suspect they can, but informally.
Is there a national standard for microturbines?
There is for parts (NFPA and UL) but not for the unit as a whole.
Microturbines: Installation and Operation
Q: A: At the national level, is anyone working on a standard for a complete microturbine unit? Yes. ASSERTI, UL, GTI, and SRI are developing test protocols that may eventually become a standard. These start as a UL protocol, then possibly become a UL standard, and then they could become an ANSI standard, which would take years.
Structured Discussion Comment: Regarding the DE National Perspectives presentation, the slide with the pyramid – this workshop today was about the bottom rung. If we could streamline codes at the state level, it would help avoid having to train officials on different codes for different jurisdictions.
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From an inspector’s point of view, what do the local officials do when they inspect DG units, and what resources do they have? Building officials deal with these on a case-by-case basis. We are familiar with microturbines and a package listing with a UL sticker would help get microturbines installed more quickly.
Comment: If we could get microturbines tested and UL listed as a package nationally, it would be a no-brainer. Q: A: Utilities have incentives offered to them to install DG, but at the same time they are not embracing it. Is there any national action taking place to help rectify this? This varies state-by-state. PUCs/PSCs deal with this. Utilities and PUCs are working to find agreeable rate structures and interconnection processes.
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