Q&A
Distributed Energy Road Show Arlington, TX June 4, 2003
DE: National Perspective Q: A: Q: A: Regarding your chart on boilers, what is taking place in capacity? It’s not capacity – it is a demonstration of investment – vintage age Are there efforts ongoing to education the public on hydrogen and risk? – Most barriers are in perception. Yes – Christy Cooper in DOE headquarters is putting together a 5-year plan
Advanced Reciprocating Engines Q: A: Q: A: Regarding slide #14, If you have 36% efficiency, how much is the heat rate? 9400. If I want to hedge electricity costs and time of day tariffs, what would fuel costs be fore me? How do I hedge input costs? Does Cummins consult on gas or fuel supply? We work with gas retailers to help our customers hedge fuel costs – we partner with local gas companies and gas retailers based on performance. We can work on finding your break-even point for fuel costs. Do you have any hydrogen prototypes yet? They’re in the R&D phase right now – Sunline Transit is putting in a hydrogen gen set that will help us do testing on our units. It is an SCR system with hydrogen incorporated with combustion. If a customer is concerned about variable natural gas costs, would Cummins take over that part of the service and take on fuel risks? Yes – we will own and operate units, including fuel costs, on behalf of customers. Can recips run on biodiesel? Yes – with 20% “bio” in the diesel. We are cautious about the bio content until we do thorough testing – we have to watch out for the customers’ best interest and we don’t want to have to do early engine overhauls.
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Fuel Cells: Installation and Operation Q: A: Q: Is the platinum catalyst used in PEM fuel cells? Yes. It’s odd that a PEM fuel cell can power a car – it seems too large for a vehicle.
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Commercial applications will need more compact designs – this unit (the DOE Road Show fuel cell) is designed for the Road Shows specifically – it includes storage space for the stacks, the shipping structure, etc. Regarding heat recovery, do fuel cells have water passages or heat from the perimeter? All types of fuel cells are different – some go out through the flue. What are O & M costs? I’ll show you just a minute further along in my presentation. Whose technology is unscheduled O & M costs estimated on? It is based on a compilation of long term service agreements for Fuel Cell Energy and United Technologies. If it takes incentives and grants to fund fuel cell testing and deployment now, people obviously won’t be using those mechanisms to pay for a fuel cell forever. How long will those incentives be needed? Fuel cells need to exist in the market without incentives – maybe that will happen in about 5 years. But in order for that to happen we will need to get units out there and running and get increased volume in production to reduce costs. GE marketed a small fuel cell for residential applications – what happened to that? GE is a major investor in Plug Power – to test a 5 kilowatt beta unit in Long Island to get costs down and learn more about them. Fuel cells are sensitive to load fluctuations – how do you get past that – with air conditioners, for example? That’s in a category of technical challenges that fuel cell manufacturers and researchers are working on. It is possible to use batteries to help with this and to help the fuel cell run in parallel with the grid. But they are a long way from being able to supply remote power on their own. A hybrid fuel cell/turbine application might also be a solution. Regarding your slide on efficiencies, is that with hydrogen fuel applications? Not necessarily – it’s with whatever fuel the fuel cell utilizes – they all use different types of fuel. What are the limitations for positioning fuel cells in mobile applications? Ford just released a study on that.
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Hydrogen Q: A: Q: A: Does the hydrogen tank become a grenade if shot? No – it wouldn’t go shooting around the room through the air – it would just fail. Is there a standard hydrogen tank pressure? It can be up to 10,000 psi – this one is 2,000. 3,600 psi is also standard. Auto manufacturers are looking at tanks with 5,000 psi. The higher the pressure, the safer the storage tank is.
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Is there a missile or shrapnel problem if the tank is shot? No – it wouldn’t fragment – it would shred. It’s not like an engine. Outside of economics, is there a barrier to transporting hydrogen over long distances? You can transport hydrogen in pipes but not with the existing pipeline infrastructure – there are embrittlement issues and the hydrogen molecule is so small that it would go right through the pipeline surfaces. Industry is considering using methane as an energy carrier, with a reformer at the user end. If we hadn’t had the Hindenburg, would we be a lot further along with hydrogen energy? Probably not – if you look at the engine technology evolution and compare that to hydrogen – hydrogen hasn’t been viable through history.
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Interconnection Q: A: Q: A: Q: A: Regarding Option A, does the meter get set back to zero at the end of the month? Yes – every billing cycle it’s set back to zero Does this information apply to coops and munis? Non-IOUs can choose to opt in or opt out – they are not subject to the rules by mandate. Each coop could have their own rules that may or may not be more stringent. What percentage of Texas customers are in IOU territories? Probably about 80%.
Solar PV: Installation and Operation Q: A: Q: A: Q: A: Q: A: Q: A: Q: A: Q: What is the thin film efficiency? 11-12% in the lab, 3-6% in the field What size is the array on the house in the picture? It’s about a 2500 watt system Regarding the sun exposure on houses, it is sometimes shielded by the sun’s rotation – why aren’t they mounted to have all day exposure? They are all south-facing, which is the ideal orientation, unless the panel rotates with the sun. How much would a 2 kilowatt system cost installed? About $12,000 to $15,000 Are these converters square wave? No – they have to be sine wave converters – they have to match the utility grid Is there any type of relay that isolates it from the utility grid if there is a power outage? The inverters will automatically shut down the system and isolate it. What does the electrical code say about the set up on slide #22?
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There are strict codes on battery ventilation
Comment: I’m concerned about the inverter when the utility goes down. A: I’m not sure – that would probably fall under NFPA 101 Comment: A lot of fire officials are looking at roof systems – they are concerned about a live generator even if you open all the switches Q: A: Q: A: Do you know about rebates? California has a $4.50 per watt rebate (they cost approximately $6 to $7 per watt) Are there software packages that do these calculations? PVWatt – it’s a neat program. It can do the calculation with your location, the size of the array, the tilt of the array, etc. It’s on the Internet.
Comment: A couple other interesting sites are www.wattsonschools.com – it covers an AEP program around the state of Texas. And www.infinitepower.org – it covers state renewable energy information. Q: A: Is the status of the net metering law in question? With the deregulation of utilities, it is not clear who is required to follow that law – in its language as passed, the law says it is only applicable to “regulated” utilities.
Air Quality Regulations Q: A: Q: A: Q: A: Q: A: What is the landfill gas standard? 1.77 pounds per megawatt – it hasn’t changed and we’re not proposing changes. But, we’re up for revisions in 2005 – we’ll see what happens then. Do you have to permit a unit that is used for emergency backup only? There is a rule for those specifically – it cannot be a peak shaver – must be purely for emergency use only. Since the standard permit has been in place, have a lot of people taken advantage of it? We have received applications for 2 fuel cells with CHP, 1 microturbine, 7 diesel peaking units, 5 landfill gas units, and 4 natural gas internal combustion engines. Are the new incentives attracting people to DG installations? Not really – we just streamlined the process.
Legislative Update Q: A: Q: A: Q: Are there any restrictions on diesel clean up? The lower number of hours the unit runs, the lower on the priority it is, compared to units that run for longer hours. There is legislation that stipulates this. Where are CHP installations in Texas? They are mostly in the chemical industry, and the petroleum industry has a lot What is the source of funding for TERP?
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A portion of the fees for vehicle titles and registration in non-attainment areas. And diesel equipment users pay a 2% surcharge. What about grants? TCEQ has R&D funds – it will be set up soon. Are the grants going to be only for replacing diesel? 87.5% of the funds will go towards diesel clean up, and 9.5% for R&D of less commercialized applications and technologies.
Structured Discussion Comment: We need to find a way to remove the mysteriousness from fuel cells. For example, the one you brought here is in a black box, with the hydrogen tank in the back. The groundwork for improving the public’s perception needs to be laid now. In fact, you could get rid of the wasted space within your fuel cell unit – the size is deceiving, once you realize with the power output capacity is. Comment: For future road shows, you may want to present some of this material on a less technical level for local government, local leaders, corporate partners, and the general public – “information for the masses” Comment: Public education is needed on hydrogen to help get rid of misconceptions – we need to address them head-on. Q: A: What do the city officials who are here think of DG? Dallas – we are in the experimentation phase and do not have long term plans for it yet. We are making it a part of our overall goal to have a 5% reduction in electrical consumption, though.
Comment: Part of SB5 includes language on energy efficiency mandates. Those who are required to comply are supposed to set their own goals and then report to the SECO on the results. Then SECO will report to the legislature annually on the information they have received. SECO just finished its first report and submitted it to the legislature. The information is posted on the web site. The goal of this activity is not to penalize people, but to make it as positive as possible – highlight the good results. Q: There was a hearing on CHP/cogen/Trigen – I haven’t heard anything bad about it, and it seems to be good except from the perspective of the permitting process. I have a big heat load and I can’t get a permit – what is being done about this? A: Texas is the first state to incorporate CHP into its state emissions standards. But, if you’re not connected to the grid, you can’t get the credits for CHP because you’re not off-setting emissions by using the CHP. The utility would have to shut something else down when the CHP was interconnected, and then the utility would get the credits. Comment: A cap and trade program would help resolve this on a baseline basis – analysis is needed to find ways to consider off-sets. It would be difficult to evaluate the trade-offs fairly. Comment: In a couple years things will be different – codes will be further developed, there will be more Energy Star appliances installed, and more data will be collected to help us be more knowledgeable about actual usage and savings.
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Comment: I would like to know more about technology demonstrations and learn from other people’s experience. I would like to hear from real life lessons learned. Comment: We need to have fire marshal training when we can show them units being tested and demonstrated – they could study the structural integrity. Comment: The DG R&D community should harness the resources within academia. It is cheap labor, and it would familiarize a whole new generation of technologists who will be future leaders in this area. Comment: Universities in each state could be designated as centers of excellence – they could be nodes of information, research, and local problem solving. Comment: As an educational component of the hydrogen and fuel cell outreach, fuel cells could be demonstrated at state fairs, carnivals, etc., and have them powering the merry-go-rounds or other rides. Announcement: The information that is collected at the Dallas-Fort Worth Airport fuel cell demonstration site will be posted online and will be available for public viewing. Announcement: There is a Renewable Energy Roundup in September in Fredericksburg – there will be fuel cells, fuel cell cars, and lots of other demos. www.txroundup.org Announcement: The Texas Renewable Energy Association web site has listings of companies involve with DG. www.treia.org Announcement: The American Solar Energy Society Conference is coming up
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