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SUBSEQUENT PAROLE CONSIDERATION HEARING

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					         SUBSEQUENT PAROLE CONSIDERATION HEARING

                    STATE OF CALIFORNIA

                 BOARD OF PAROLE HEARINGS



In the matter of the Life )
Term Parole Consideration )
Hearing of:               )           CDC Number W -19366
                          )
SANDRA LAWRENCE           )
                          )
__________________________)



          CALIFORNIA INSTITUTION FOR WOMEN

                 FRONTERA, CALIFORNIA


                      AUGUST 25, 2005

                          8:26 a.m.


PANEL PRESENT:

Mr. Philip S. Inglee, Presiding Commissioner
Mr. Herbert May, Deputy Commissioner



OTHERS PRESENT:

Ms.   Sandra Lawrence, Inmate
Ms.   Carrie Hempel, Attorney for Inmate
Ms.   Mary Murray, Deputy District Attorney
Ms.   Lisa Shinar, Observer




CORRECTIONS TO THE DECISION HAVE BEEN MADE

        _________   No       See Review of Hearing
        _________   Yes      Transcript Memorandum


Elizabeth Scott, Peters Shorthand Reporting
                         ii




                        INDEX

                                                 PAGE

Proceedings ....................................... 1

Case Factors ..................................... 11

Pre-Commitment Factors ........................... 36

Post-Commitment Factors .......................... 49

Parole Plans ..................................... 53

Closing Statements ............................... 81

Recess ........................................... 90

Decision ......................................... 91

Adjournment ...................................... 97

Transcriber Certification ........................ 98




                       --oOo--
                                  1



 1                     P R O C E E D I N G S
 2           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          This is

 3   a Subsequent Parole Hear ing for Sandra

 4   Lawrence.   Her CDC number is W -19366. Today is

 5   August the 25 t h , 2005.    The time is 8:26, and

 6   we‟re located at CIW.       The inmate was received

 7   on 12/8, 1983 and from the County of Los

 8   Angeles.    Life began on 12/08, 1983.        The

 9   inmate‟s minimum e ligible parole date was

10   11/29, 1990.    The controlling offense which the

11   inmate has been committed for is set forth in

12   Case No. LA-A174924.        Charge was Penal Code

13   187, first degree murder.         Term was life.    This

14   hearing is being tape recorded, and for the

15   purpose of today‟s voice identification, each

16   of us will be required to our state our first

17   and last name, spelling our last name.          When it

18   comes to the inmate‟s turn, after you spell

19   your last name, please give us your CDC number

20   also.

21           INMATE LAWRENCE:         Okay.

22           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         Starting

23   with myself, my name is Philip Inglee, and

24   that‟s I-N-G-L-E-E.     I‟m the Commissioner.
25           DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:         Herbert May,

26   M-A-Y, Deputy Commissioner.

27           DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY MURRAY:         Mary
                               2



 1   Murray, Deputy District Attorney on behalf of

 2   Los Angeles County.     M -U-R-R-A-Y.

 3         ATTORNEY HEMPEL:        Carrie Hempel,

 4   H-E-M-P-E-L, supervising attorney, USC Law

 5   School.

 6         MS. SHINAR:      Lisa Shinar, S -H-I-N-A-R,

 7   certified law student intern, USC Law School.

 8         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:           Okay.

 9   We have one correctional officer here, who is

10   here for security purposes.

11         INMATE LAWRENCE:         Sandra Lawrence,

12    W-19366.

13         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:           Think I

14   was going to forget you?       So it would be

15   difficult.   Okay.    Before y ou is an ADA Rights

16   and Self-Identification Statement, which I‟ll

17   now ask you to read out loud, please.

18         INMATE LAWRENCE:        “The ADA

19         Statement.     The Americans Act,

20         ADA, is a law to help people

21         help people with disabilities.

22         Disabilities are problems that

23         make it harder for some people

24         to see, hear, breathe, talk,
25         walk, learn, think, work, or

26         take care of themselves than it

27         is for others.     Nobody can be
                               3



 1         kept out of public places or

 2         activities because of a

 3         disability.     If you have a

 4         disability, you have the r ight

 5         to ask for help to get ready for

 6         your BPT Hearing, to get to the

 7         hearing, talk, read forms and

 8         papers, and understand the

 9         hearing process.        BPT will look

10         at what you ask for to make sure

11         that you have a disability that

12         is covered by the ADA and that

13         you have asked for the right

14         kind of help.     If you do not get

15         help or if you don‟t think you

16         got the kind of help you need,

17         ask for a BPT 1074 Grievance

18         Form.    You can also get help to

19         fill it out.”
20         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          Do you

21   understand what yo u read?
22         INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes, I did.

23         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          Thank you

24   very much.    The record shows that you signed a
25   BPT Form 1073, which is a reasonable

26   accommodation notice requested in accordance

27   with the Americans With Disability Act, and t hat
                                4



 1   was signed on 6/21, 2005.        At that time, you

 2   indicated that you do not have a disability

 3   under the ADA.   Is that correct?
 4           INMATE LAWRENCE:        That‟s correct.

 5           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:           Do you

 6   have any problems walking up and down stairs, or

 7   for a distance of 100 yards or more?
 8           INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, I do not.

 9           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          Do you

10   need glasses or a magnifying device in order to

11   see or read documents?
12           INMATE LAWRENCE:       Yes.

13           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          Are the

14   devices adequate for this hearing today?
15           INMATE LAWRENCE:       Yes, they are.

16           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          Do you

17   have any hearing impairments?
18           INMATE LAWRENCE:        No.

19           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          Have you

20   ever been included in a CCMS or a DOP program?
21           INMATE LAWRENCE:       No, I have not.

22           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:           Do you

23   know what these programs are?
24           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes, I do.
25           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          What are

26   they?
27           INMATE LAWRENCE:       Triple CMS -- Mental
                                 5



 1   Health Clinic.     That‟s available for inm ates‟

 2   problems, mental health issues.
 3            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          How far

 4   did you go in school before you arrived in

 5   prison?
 6            INMATE LAWRENCE:       I was approximately one

 7   year into college, and I had my cosmetologist

 8   license.     I was a teacher of cosmetol ogy at one

 9   time.
10            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:           All

11   right.     Did you take any Special Education

12   classes while you were growing up?
13            INMATE LAWRENCE:        When I was growing up?

14            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:           Special

15   Education classes, such as remedial re ading,

16   remedial mathematics.
17            INMATE LAWRENCE:       No, no.   Not at all.

18            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          Do you

19   suffer from any disability that prevents you

20   from participating in today‟s hearing?
21            INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, I do not.

22            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLE E:

23   Counselor, do you have comments or concerns

24   regarding the ADA rights or the inmate‟s ability
25   to participate in today‟s hearing?
26            ATTORNEY HEMPEL:        No, I do not.

27            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:           Okay.
                             6



 1   This hearing is being conducted pursuant to

 2   Penal Code Sections 3041, 3042, and the Rules

 3   and Regulations of the Board of Prison Terms

 4   governing Parole Consideration Hearings for life

 5   inmates.   The purpose of today‟s hearing is to

 6   consider your suitability for parole.     In doing

 7   so, we will consider the number of the nature of

 8   the crimes you were committed for, your prior

 9   criminal and social history, your behavior and

10   programming since your commitment.   You‟ve had

11   an opportunity to review your Central File and

12   prior hearing transcripts.   You will be give n an

13   opportunity to correct and clarify the record.

14   We will consider your progress since your

15   commitment and since your last hearing.     Your

16   updated counselor‟s report and psychological

17   report will also be considered.   Any change in

18   parole plans should be brought to our attention.

19   We will reach a decision today and inform you

20   whether or not we will find you suitable for

21   parole and the reasons for our decision.     If you

22   are found suitable for parole, the length of

23   your confinement will be explained to you.     The

24   hearing will be conducted in two phases.     I will
25   discuss with you the crime that you were

26   committed for, the prior criminal and social

27   history, your parole plans, and your letters in
                               7



 1   support and opposition that may be in the file.

 2   Deputy Commissioner May will discuss with you

 3   your progress since your commitment, your

 4   counselor‟s report, psychological evaluation,

 5   and your parole plans.     Once that‟s concluded,

 6   the Commissioners, District Attorney and your

 7   attorney will be given the opportunity to ask

 8   you questions.     Questions from the District

 9   Attorney shall be asked through the chair, and

10   your return answers will come back through the

11   chair also.     Before we recess for deliberation,

12   the District Attorney, your attorney and

13   yourself will be given an opport unity for a

14   final statement regarding your parole

15   suitability.     Your statement should be directed

16   to why you feel you are suitable for parole.         We

17   will go to recess, clear the room for

18   deliberation, and once we‟ve finished

19   deliberation, we‟ll (indiscernibl e) and announce

20   our decision.     The California Code of

21   Regulations states that regardless of time

22   served, a life inmate shall be found unsuitable

23   for and denied parole if in the judgment of the

24   Panel the inmate would pose an unreasonable risk
25   of danger to s ociety if released from prison.

26   You have certain rights.      These rights include

27   the right of timely notice of this hearing and a
                                  8



 1   right to review your Central File, and the right

 2   to present relevant documents. Counsel, has the

 3   inmate‟s rights been read?
 4             ATTORNEY HEMPEL:       Yes, they have.

 5             PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          You also

 6   have the right to be heard by an impartial

 7   Panel.     Ms. Lawrence, do you have any objection

 8   to any member of this panel?
 9             INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, I do not.

10             PRESIDING COMMISSIONER IN GLEE:         Counsel,

11   do you have any objection to any member of this

12   panel?
13             ATTORNEY HEMPEL:       I do not.

14             PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:     You will

15   receive a copy of the written tentative decision

16   today.    That decision is subject to review by the

17   Decision Review Unit and by an entire Board meeting as

18   a body.    It will become effective within 120 days.

19   It is also subject to review by the Governor.                  A

20   copy of the tentative decision and a copy of the

21   transcript will be sent to you.            As of May 1 s t ,

22   2004, there were major changes limiting your

23   former rights to appeal Board decisions or

24   actions directly to the Board.          The old Board
25   regulations were repealed.          The current policy

26   is entitled Administrative Appeals

27   Correspondence and Grievances Concerning Board
                                9



 1   of Prison Terms Decisions.       It is available in

 2   the prison library for your review.       You are not

 3   required to admit your offense or discuss your

 4   offense if you do not wish to do so.       However,

 5   this panel does accept true the findings of the

 6   court, and you are invited t o discuss the facts

 7   and circumstances of the offense if you so

 8   desire.   The Board will review and consider any

 9   prior statements you‟ve made regarding the

10   offense in determining your suitability for

11   parole.   Mr. May, is there any confidential

12   material in th e file?
13          DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:       There will be

14   none, Mr. Chairman.      Thank you.
15          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       Thank

16   you.   We have passed a hearing checklist on to

17   your attorney and the District Attorney to

18   ensure we‟re all proceeding with the same

19   documents.   Did the District Attorney have a

20   chance to take a look at these?
21          DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY MURRAY:        Yes.

22          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        Do you

23   have all your documents?
24          DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY MURRAY:       Yes.
25          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:

26   Counselor, do you have all your documents?
27          ATTORNEY HEMPEL:        Yes.
                               10



 1          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:    Thank

 2   you.   Do you have any additional documents to be

 3   submitted?
 4          ATTORNEY HEMPEL:    Two letters -- support

 5   letters.
 6          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:    Let‟s

 7   take a quick peek.     Are there any preliminary

 8   objections?
 9          ATTORNEY HEMPEL:    No.

10          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:    Will the

11   inmate be speaking to the panel?
12          ATTORNEY HEMPEL:    Yes.

13          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:     On all

14   subjects?
15          ATTORNEY HEMPEL:        Yes.

16          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:    Okay.     In

17   that regard, Ms. Lawrence, will you please raise

18   your right hand?     Do you solemnly swear or

19   affirm that the testimony you give at this

20   hearing will be the truth, the whole truth and

21   nothing but the truth?
22          INMATE LAWRENCE:        I do.

23          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:     In

24   regard to the statement of facts, if there‟s no
25   objection, counsel, we will incorporate by

26   reference the statement of facts, and I‟ll go

27   from the appellate decision, pages 2 through 4.
                                  11



 1            ATTORNEY HEMPE L:    That‟s fine.

 2            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         All

 3   right.     Thank you.   As far as the way I‟d like

 4   to run this hearing is to give the inmate an

 5   opportunity to discuss the actual crime and to

 6   hear your side of it.        What I‟d like to have

 7   you do is tell us how it happened. Describe the

 8   crime, the crime itself, and what subsequently

 9   happened after the crime was over.
10            INMATE LAWRENCE:         Okay.

11            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         And go

12   ahead.
13            INMATE LAWRENCE:         I lived in Chicago in

14   1970 with my husband, and I had two kids.             We

15   separated.     I moved to California to be with my

16   siblings here in California to go away divorcing

17   my husband, and to have a change of scenery,

18   because I was in an abusive relationship with

19   him.     Once I got to California in 1970, I moved

20   in with one of my sisters and my two children.

21   Subsequently, I have a brother who‟s a distance

22   that hired me to work in his dental office as a

23   receptionist.     I began working for him and going

24   to school in the evening, Southwest College.
25   There I met Dr. Robert Williams.          He was a

26   dentist working for my brother at the time.                He

27   was working until he was able to open his own
                                 12



 1   practice.     A relationship ensued with Dr.

 2   Williams at that time -- an affair.       I knew he

 3   was married, but the affair continued on the

 4   advice from my brothers and sisters not to get

 5   involved, but I did.     When I got to California,

 6   I was really emotionally unsettled, not knowing

 7   it at that time, but I was emotionally

 8   disturbed, coming out of an abused situation,

 9   and I headed right back into a nother abusive

10   situation, which seems to be the norm for the

11   abuse cycle, which I didn‟t know at the time, in

12   1970, that that‟s what was happening.       I

13   continued the affair because of promises that

14   was made to me that he loved me and we were

15   gonna have a life together.       And I believed

16   that.    I believed that.     I was convinced that I

17   was going to do that.       But in hindsight, I know

18   I was only playing the opportunist role at that

19   point.    You know, I was looking for something to

20   fulfill me.     And I understand that fully now.

21   And he offered me something, for whatever

22   motives he offered them, and I accepted them and

23   got myself involved in this situation.          And

24   trying to hold on to that situation, it just
25   escalated to the point where I was almost a

26   nervous wreck, to a point that I was able, with

27   my family coaxing, to get out of the
                                 13



 1   relationship, which I did.         By, I would say,

 2   November 1970, I was able to cut the affair off.

 3   In doing this, my family -- my birthday was

 4   coming up in February, and my whole family

 5   planned a big family gathering and a birthday

 6   party for me to, you know, boost my spirits and

 7   to get me back on track as far as staying in

 8   school and concentrating on getting my life

 9   together.     This was supposed to be sort of a

10   coming out type party for me to get back into

11   the singles scene and dating and that type of

12   thing.    They were trying their best to pump me

13   up.   That night of the party, which was February

14   13 t h , we were having fun and Robert came to the

15   party.    That‟s Robert Williams.        He was

16   uninvited.     I had not seen him for a couple of

17   months, nor had I spoken to him, because we were

18   finished with each other.         He arrived at the

19   party unannounced, uninvited.
20            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        Were you

21   living in Chicago at the time?
22            INMATE LAWRENCE:        No.   We were here in

23   California.
24            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        He came

25   out here also?
26            INMATE LAWRENCE:    No, no, no.      Mr.

27   Williams lived here in California.          I met Mr.
                                 14



 1   Williams at my brother‟s dental office.
 2            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         I‟m

 3   sorry.    I‟m getting some of the names mixed up.

 4   I understand.    Go ahead.
 5            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Okay.   And because

 6   many of the people at the party were his peers,

 7   because they were my brother‟s peers also,

 8   people from the black community, professional

 9   community, was invite d to the party.         So he took

10   it upon himself -- he knew about the party

11   through, I guess, associates of his.          He was not

12   invited by me or any of my family, and he came

13   and he was escorted into the party by whoever

14   answered the door.    I don‟t know.        But beca use

15   of the gala, the gay atmosphere of the party, he

16   came in and began participating in the party,

17   and we started talking, and he explained at the

18   party that he wanted to get back with me, and he

19   loved me, and we were going to get back

20   together.    He wanted to marry me and start the

21   cycle all over again in front of my family.

22   When the party ended, he stayed on at my

23   apartment for the weekend.         This was Saturday

24   night.    He stayed Saturday night and all day
25   Sunday and Sunday night.         He left my home, going

26   to work that Monday morning, to my brother‟s

27   office, and where I was supposed to call him to
                              15



 1   get some type of results or some type of

 2   information on a dental hygienist test that he

 3   was, you know, supposedly getting for me

 4   because, as we had discussed over the weekend,

 5   that I would be joining him in his practice.        So

 6   he wanted me to learn of the vocational of the

 7   dental trade.    And that was the plan after he

 8   left me that morning.    So he called me that

 9   morning, I would assume about 10:30.     And as we

10   talked, he t old me that he was going to stay

11   with his wife.    He wasn‟t going to leave her.

12   And at that point, that‟s when I had my

13   emotional crisis.    I decided that, as he told me

14   that his wife Ruby would be at his new dental

15   office and receiving supplies for him tha t day.

16   And upon finding that information out, I

17   proceeded to go over to the office to confront

18   her.    Upon arriving at the office -- well,

19   before I went to the office, as I‟m thinking all

20   of these bad, negative, raw emotional thoughts,

21   I decided that I sho uld take something to

22   protect myself, just in case things got out of

23   hand.    I assume I was thinking that.   This has

24   been 34 years.    I went into my kitchen and went
25   into the -- the kitchen drawer, and I chose a

26   potato peeler.    Don‟t ask me why I chose a

27   potato peeler.
                                16



 1           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       That‟s an

 2   interesting weapon.     (indiscernible)
 3           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Well, that was the

 4   emotional situation that I was going through at

 5   the time.     And when I left my home, my home, his

 6   office, and in the middle, which I would say

 7   it‟s about a ten, twelve -block radius from my

 8   home.     My sister‟s home laid right in the middle

 9   between my home and his office.        And I had to

10   pass her home to get to the office.        And as I

11   passed her home, whatever that thought was that

12   I should reinforce myself as far as protecting

13   myself, I remembered she had a gun, because I

14   had lived with her when I first came to

15   California.     She had advised me that she had a

16   gun in the house, and me not to let the children

17   in her bedroom, and keep her bedroom door locked

18   so the kids wouldn‟t go in.        And she showed me

19   where the gun was under the mattress.        And that

20   was months before.     And I -- I turned the car

21   around and went back to her home and retrieved

22   the gun from under the mattress and put it in my

23   pocket.
24           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        Do you

25   recall what kind of gun that it was?
26           INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, sir.

27           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        It was a
                                 17



 1   pistol.
 2            INMATE LAWRENCE:        It was a pistol, and I

 3   would like to make note that I had never handl ed

 4   a gun before.      I never held a gun up until that

 5   point.     I couldn‟t tell you what type of gun it

 6   was.     I didn‟t even check to see if bullets were

 7   in the gun.      That‟s how inexperienced I was with

 8   handling a gun.      I was moving on raw emotions at

 9   that point .
10            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       Can you

11   recall if it was a cylinder in the weapon?
12            INMATE LAWRENCE:    It was a cylinder, I

13   think, because bullets, as I remember in

14   testimony, bullets had to be put into the gun.
15            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       Into the

16   cylinder.
17            INMATE LAWRENCE:    In the cylinder -- if

18   I‟m not --
19            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       Versus

20   the weapon being --
21            INMATE LAWRENCE:    No, no.     It was a small

22   little gun.
23            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       But the

24   question is, did it have a cylinder o r was it a
25   revolver?      You can see the bullets if you look

26   at it from one direction.         Go ahead.
27            INMATE LAWRENCE:    Yeah.     I wasn‟t looking
                                 18



 1   at any of that.
 2            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         So you

 3   weren‟t looking at the bullets.
 4            INMATE LAWRENCE:        No.   No, not at all.

 5            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         But if

 6   you didn‟t know if it was -- if the weapon was

 7   loaded, and you were trying to protect yourself,

 8   why would you have taken the weapon if you

 9   didn‟t know whether it was loaded or not?
10            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Because I wasn‟t

11   dealing in a reasonable, logical, sane mind at

12   that particular time.       So those things didn‟t

13   enter the equation at that moment.
14            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        You were

15   upset.
16            INMATE LAWRENCE:    I was very upset.

17   After I retrieved the gun from my under my

18   sister‟s mattress, I proceeded to the office,

19   which was no more than three blocks away.           I

20   parked in the parking lot and knocked on the

21   door, and Mrs. Williams answered the door, and

22   invited me in.    We were going to talk about our

23   three-way situation.
24            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         Had you

25   met the woman before?
26            INMATE LAWRENCE:    I had never met her

27   formally.    We had talked many times over the
                               19



 1   phone, arguing over the phone, in three -way

 2   conversations and two -way conversations.
 3          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        So in the

 4   past, you had not had cordial relations.        It

 5   wasn‟t as if you had some kind of social

 6   relationship in the past.
 7          INMATE LAWRENCE:        Not at all.

 8          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        It was

 9   negative all the way through.
10          INMATE LAWRENCE:        All the way through.

11   Very antagonistic from day one when she found

12   out, because he called -- he would call me from

13   his home when the relationship was starting with

14   me.   And he would profess his love and that he

15   was leaving in a three -way conversation.       So

16   that continued on over a period of time, until

17   it escalated to the point that when he move out

18   of his home with her and move into my home, she

19   would come and leave, change cars, go into the

20   parking stall and exchange cars, or leave notes

21   on my door, that type of thing, while we were

22   together.   So it was a very volatile

23   relationship from the very beginning.
24          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        When you

25   talk about notes on your door, what are you

26   referring to?
27          INMATE LAWRENCE:        Well, she would come
                               20



 1   to my home and just put notes on my door to let

 2   me know that she was there.          She would never

 3   knock on the door.    We were never in face -to-

 4   face confrontation.     It was just the game that

 5   was being played.     It was just between she and

 6   myself.   She just wa nted me to know that she

 7   knew where he was and that she still could come

 8   and do the things that she did.
 9          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         In your

10   conversations with her, or the notes that she

11   left, did she ever threaten your life?
12          INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, sir.

13          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         Your

14   physical being, did she ever threaten you?
15          INMATE LAWRENCE:        No.    It was mostly

16   woman-to-woman type thing.       I have a family, and

17   I work hard to maintain my family.          And I

18   understand that today.     I understand that today.

19   She was trying to defend her family.          And I

20   would do the same at this point of understanding

21   of my responsibility to a human being that I was

22   out of line to even get involved in that

23   situation.
24          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         So what

25   happened t hen?
26          INMATE LAWRENCE:    When I went inside, we

27   began to talk, and like I said, I had not seen
                                21



 1   him for two months, and the reconciliation took

 2   place over the weekend.     So we were talking

 3   about what had happened and what he had said to

 4   me and what he had pro mised me.       And she was

 5   saying, well you see I‟m here and nothing has

 6   changed.   So we started talking and arguing, and

 7   after the arguing, we started fighting.            And the

 8   fighting escalated to, you know, falling down

 9   and rolling around.
10           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            You

11   physically were having a fight.
12           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes, sir.   It

13   escalated to that point.
14           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:           Was it

15   hitting at each other with fists or pushing?
16           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Well, it was all of

17   that.   It was all of that .
18           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            So

19   getting very aggressive.
20           INMATE LAWRENCE:    It was very aggressive.

21   We got very aggressive with each other, to the

22   point that at one point we were on the floor,

23   wrestling around and rolling around, you know,

24   pulling hair, you know, scratching, all the
25   things that females do.
26           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            Possibly

27   (indiscernible)   You made a major step past
                               22



 1   myself.     I don‟t know about Mr. May.
 2         INMATE LAWRENCE:     And it was just -- I

 3   was becoming more and more enr aged as the fight

 4   continued, to the point where I was just so

 5   enraged.     At one point I remembered I had the

 6   gun in my pocket.     And at that point, I pulled

 7   out the gun and started firing.     And I know

 8   somewhere in the court records that sentences

 9   have been taken out of context that I said that

10   I really wasn‟t aiming at her, I wasn‟t really

11   shooting at her.     But the state of mind that was

12   in, Mr. Inglee, I can truly say today, 34 years

13   later, with the emotions that I was experiencing

14   and can remember that I wa s experiencing, I just

15   pulled out the gun -- because we were only no

16   more than two feet away from each other or a

17   foot away from each other, and I just started

18   shooting.     And bullets -- one bullet went in the

19   wall, as I remember, during testimony, I think

20   one bullet landed in her neck and another bullet

21   landed in her hand.     So I was not saying that I

22   was standing there aiming at her.     In my rage, I

23   just started shooting, and wherever the bullets

24   landed -- you know, we were close to each other.
25   So I would j ust like to rectify that statement

26   that I wasn‟t trying to minimize that I wasn‟t

27   shooting at her.     Of course I was shooting at
                               23



 1   her in that state of mind that I was in, but my

 2   intentions was not to aim and fire at her, to

 3   aim at a certain area of her body to kill her.
 4          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:

 5   (indiscernible) to ask you a couple of

 6   questions.
 7          INMATE LAWRENCE:        Okay.

 8          PRESIDING COMMISIONER INGLEE:          The

 9   record seems to indicate that you also stabbed

10   her.
11          INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes, I did.

12          PRESIDING CO MISSIONER INGLEE:        You did

13   stab her.    Was that with the potato peeler?
14          INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes, sir.

15          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          The

16   potato peeler, was it a -- again, I‟m not

17   (indiscernible) -- I have seen potato peelers

18   that have a serrated edge on them, and they

19   almost rotate.    And then there‟s one that‟s more

20   like a paring knife. What kind of kitchen device

21   was it?
22          INMATE LAWRENCE:        Okay.   Mr. Inglee, you

23   have to remember, this was 34 years ago.
24          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          To the

25   best of yo ur recollection.
26          INMATE LAWRENCE:        I‟m trying to refer to

27   the technology of things -- how they‟ve improved
                                24



 1   over the years.    As I remember, the potato

 2   peeler was about a two, two and half -inch potato

 3   peeler, and it was the old -fashioned kind that

 4   our mothers used to --
 5           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          You

 6   started talking about it --
 7           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes.    And it had about

 8   a two-inch blade inside, like those safety

 9   razors that we use today.
10           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          That‟s

11   the one I was referrin g to.
12           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes.    Something of

13   that nature.   And the end of it -- it wasn‟t

14   serrated, it was kind of like a little rounded.
15           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:

16   (indiscernible).
17           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yeah.    Where you just

18   pull the eye of the potat o when you‟re cleaning

19   the potato, you know.
20           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          Did you

21   actually stab her with it to where it broke her

22   skin?
23           INMATE LAWRENCE:        I know at one point, I

24   may have said that I don‟t think the skin was
25   broken, but I -- I just couldn‟t imagine the

26   skin being broken.    I was just in a fit of rage

27   at that time -- not to break skin, not to hurt
                                25



 1   her.    I was just enraged and moving under that

 2   -- that enormous hatred and rage that I was in

 3   at that moment.    And I wasn‟t looking to damage

 4   her.    I was just playing out that rage that I

 5   had in me, as I look back, you know, at it now.
 6           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:              Well,

 7   let me ask you another question.        I don‟t want

 8   you to become enraged here, but I want you to --

 9   and I know this is an ups etting thing to

10   discuss.    I totally understand that.       I have

11   enough reasons to talk to people from time to

12   time to know how emotional these things can be,

13   and I want to assure you (indiscernible)
14           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes.

15           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:              I‟m a

16   little concerned that maybe there is some

17   concern.    You guys want to take ten minutes and

18   recess for a while, or is this okay?
19           ATTORNEY HEMPEL:        Are you okay?

20           INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, I‟m fine.

21           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:              Are you?

22   Okay.
23           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes, sir.   I was just

24   trying to explain to you what‟s happening at the
25   time.
26           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          I

27   (indiscernible) hearing‟s affecting you, though.
                                26



 1           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes, sir.   I‟m quite

 2   all right.
 3           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGL EE:        Okay.

 4   In that case, I‟m gonna ask you another question

 5   then.    Did you intend to -- obviously you

 6   intended to harm the woman, because you were

 7   cutting her as she was trying to harm you. But

 8   there‟s a leap there between -- I mean, as a

 9   young man, I certainly was in some scuffles in

10   my life -- but there was a leap between the

11   point where you had a scuffle and you‟re going

12   to kill somebody.     So my question to you is,

13   going back to your earlier conversation when you

14   said you were shooting around and not

15   necessarily aiming at her -- at that time, in

16   your mind, did you intend to kill her -- to

17   murder her?
18           INMATE LAWRENCE:        I don‟t think murder

19   was in my mind.     I think removing my pain -- the

20   obstacle of my hurt at that moment -- that was

21   in my mind, becaus e if I can sit here and think

22   logically, a logical move would not be to murder

23   her.    What -- what benefit would be there to

24   murder somebody?     You know, this is an emotional
25   deal.    This is not something that you could take

26   as logical at that point.        I was j ust moving

27   under my own emotional energy at that point.
                                 27



 1            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         You lost

 2   your head.     Would you say that (indiscernible)?
 3            INMATE LAWRENCE:        For a lack of a better

 4   word.
 5            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:

 6   (indiscernible) you know what that means.
 7            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Well, (indiscernible)

 8   is just a completely emotional breakdown, and I

 9   had lost all reasonability at that point.
10            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         So you

11   really did not -- you didn‟t go there with the

12   intent to murder?
13            INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, I did not, sir.

14            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         Even

15   during the fight, you didn‟t necessarily intend

16   to murder him.
17            INMATE LAWRENCE:        That was not a logical

18   progression in my mind that I have killed this

19   woman.    I was just react ing to what was going on

20   at the time.
21            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         Did she

22   have anything in her hands?         Did she have any

23   weapon of any sort?
24            INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, sir.   She did not.
25            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         She

26   didn‟t pick up anything -- paper weights, or

27   pick up anything around her dentist office?
                                 28



 1            INMATE LAWRENCE:        As I said, we were

 2   fighting.     We were cat fighting, and the area,

 3   as I remember, it wasn‟t -- it was an empty

 4   office.     As I said, she was there receiving.         It

 5   wasn‟t like it was an equipped office.         It was

 6   an empty space.     So we were rolling around on

 7   the floor.     So there was no opportunity for her

 8   to get anything, you know.         It just escalated

 9   after the argument and fight.         So no to your

10   question.     She didn‟t have any weapon.
11            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        All

12   right.    And then what happened?
13            INMATE LAWRENCE:        And once I shot her

14   and -- and stabbed her, and after awhile, you

15   know, emotions subside, and I realized what I

16   had done.     I left, went over to another sister‟s

17   home.     And I just passed out on the couch.
18            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        When you

19   left the -- when you left the crime scene, were

20   you sure she was dead?
21            INMATE LAWRENCE:        I wasn‟t thinking -- I

22   know I had injured Mrs. Williams, and it

23   frightened me to dea th at that point, that I had

24   injured her and she wasn‟t moving.         I wasn‟t in
25   a state of mind to know whether she had a pulse

26   or she was still alive.      I was in such an

27   emotional state at that point.
                                 29



 1            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         I

 2   suppose you were.     Obv iously, you‟re upset, and

 3   I don‟t want to drag this out any further, but I

 4   need to ask some questions.         Did you have an

 5   opportunity to even consider calling

 6   (indiscernible) 911, but calling somebody to

 7   come assist you?
 8            INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, sir.   No, sir, I

 9   did not.     I was just moving under that

10   adrenaline in myself.       I just wanted to close my

11   eyes and hope that this was a bad dream.            I

12   couldn‟t get (indiscernible).         I don‟t know what

13   the psychological ramifications of that move

14   was, but all I could do wa s just lie down and

15   close my eyes after that.
16            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         And

17   (indiscernible).     So you came into the office

18   (indiscernible).     Who struck the first blow?

19   Who was the one who started the physical aspect

20   of it?
21            INMATE LAWRENCE:        I could never answer

22   that question.     I didn‟t know of (indiscernible)

23   struck.    But I could take accountability for

24   striking her.     I could have been the aggressor.
25   I could have been, and I will take

26   responsibility for being the aggressor in that

27   situation.
                               30



 1         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            But you

 2   had no intent when you came in to harm her?
 3         INMATE LAWRENCE:         No.

 4         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            Possibly

 5   to emotionally harm her, but not to physically

 6   harm her.
 7         INMATE LAWRENCE:         No, I did not.     I can

 8   truly say I didn‟t.     That was not my motivating

 9   reason for going over there.
10         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            When you

11   struck her with the potato peeler, was that the

12   first blow -- the first lethal blow you

13   attempted to strike was with the potato peeler?

14   You began with the potato peeler before you

15   started shooting her?
16         INMATE LAWRENCE:         No, not at all.

17         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            So you

18   shot her first?
19         INMATE LAWRENCE:         Yes.

20         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            Then you

21   hit her with the potato peeler?
22         INMATE LAWRENCE:         Yes.   It was totally

23   emotional after that.
24         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            Did you

25   (indiscernible)
26         INMATE LAWRENCE:         Yes.

27         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            But you
                                31



 1   had no intent at that point in time to murder

 2   her?
 3           INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, I did not. I can

 4    -- I can say I didn‟t.      Murder was not in my

 5   vocabulary.   I mean, I lived in a normal, sedate

 6   life up until I met Robert and got myself

 7   involved in that triangle situation.
 8           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       Okay.

 9   What happened afte r that?       You went to your

10   sister‟s home?
11           INMATE LAWRENCE:        I would like to

12   retract.   My sisters lived two or three houses

13   from each other.   I had two sisters in that

14   area.   The sister‟s house that I took the gun

15   from -- I did stop at her house and put th e gun

16   back under her mattress, then I proceeded to my

17   other sister‟s house.
18           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        So you

19   were thinking pretty well, then, if that was the

20   case.   I mean, if you took the time to go back.
21           INMATE LAWRENCE:        I‟m just telling you

22   what happened.
23           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        No, no.

24   I‟m just thinking in my own mind -- that was a
25   very rationale move on your part, to go to your

26   sister‟s home, and then going and place the gun

27   under the mattress.     I‟m putting myself in your
                                 32



 1   position to try to feel how you were feeling at

 2   this time.    And then after you placed the gun,

 3   then you did what?
 4            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Went to my other

 5   sister‟s home two doors and just went to sleep

 6   on her couch.
 7            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        All

 8   right.    And then you left.
 9            INMATE LAWRENCE:    For Chicago?

10            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       Yes.

11            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Two months later.   I

12   was called by an attorney that I had in Chicago.

13   I had an industrial accident in Chicago, and I

14   was called to come back for that ind ustrial

15   accident, and that‟s how I got back to Chicago

16   at that particular time.
17            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        And you

18   then went to where?
19            INMATE LAWRENCE:        When I got to Chicago,

20   I got a call from one of my siblings here saying

21   the FBI had issued a n arrest warrant for me and

22   wanted me to come back.      I did get on a plane,

23   left my children with their father, got on a

24   plane to come back to California.         And in
25   Chicago, flight from Chicago to L.A., I made

26   another decision that I wasn‟t ready to accept

27   responsibility for what I had done.         So when the
                               33



 1   plane landed, I got on a bus and went to Vegas.

 2   And from there, my journey began.
 3         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        That‟s

 4   for an 11-year period.
 5         INMATE LAWRENCE:         Yes, sir.

 6         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE :        What

 7   made you decide to come back?
 8         INMATE LAWRENCE:         I had began to heal,

 9   and in that process, it took me 11½ years for me

10   to heal to come to the realization that I have

11   to be accountable and responsible for my actions

12   as a person.     And when I was ab le to look myself

13   in the face and say you have to do this, I made

14   arrangements to do that.
15         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         Did your

16   family know you were coming back?
17         INMATE LAWRENCE:         When I made that

18   decision, I called my mother and brother in

19   Alabama, and told them I was ready to come back

20   to California to face the crime that I had

21   committed.     So my mother and my brother called

22   my siblings in Virginia at the time.       My mother

23   and my brother in Alabama called my siblings

24   here in California and made arra ngements to pick
25   me up at the airport.     They met me at the

26   airport, took me straight to any attorney‟s

27   office, where the attorney turned me in.
                                  34



 1         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            Okay.

 2   Well, that‟s quite striking.
 3         INMATE LAWRENCE:            That‟s the general way

 4   (indiscernible).
 5         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            That

 6   really, really is.     The lawyers that I‟ve had to

 7   deal with up to this point (indiscernible).
 8         INMATE LAWRENCE:            I‟ve had a longer

 9   journey here.
10         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:            Well, I

11   understand.     All right.    Is there anything else

12   you might want to say about the crime itself?
13         INMATE LAWRENCE:            I would like to let

14   you know, you know, that I‟m totally, totally

15   aware of what I did.     I take full responsibility

16   for what I did.     As I just said, wh en I came to

17   my own reality and was able to accept what I had

18   did -- I mean, it wasn‟t crystal clear as to

19   what I -- how I was gonna go about it and what

20   stipulations that was gonna take place, but I

21   knew had to do what I had to do.          And I made

22   that first step back into reality to come and

23   let you know that I do understand that I did

24   something horrible, and I‟m willing to suffer
25   the consequences for what I did.          And I lived

26   here for 21½ years suffering those consequences,

27   and have grown and gotten stronger behind it.
                               35



 1   So I come to you today, apologizing as I do on a

 2   daily basis when it comes up in my mind --

 3   apologize to Ruby Williams, knowing that I took

 4   her life.     She was not my victim.    She was the

 5   object of my rage. She was the object of my

 6   disgust with everything that had happened to my

 7   life, and my unfulfillment in my life up to that

 8   point.    And it was an irrational act that I

 9   committed against her, her family, and that --

10   that -- that stone knife that I threw in that

11   river that morning, how it affected so many

12   people.     I understand that.    And I have stood

13   strong here for 21 years letting everyone know

14   that I was willing to make a change, and I

15   worked every day to make a change and to let

16   anybody and everybody know that nothing like

17   that could happen in my life again, and

18   anybody‟s life that comes within my contact,

19   because my life is an open book where anybody

20   could see how they can involved in situations

21   that leads to much damage to people and society.

22   So I just want to apologize to Ruby and her

23   children for doing that to her, as well as to my

24   children and my family, and to the community at
25   large.    I can‟t take it back.     All I‟ve done is

26   try to work to improve myself and improve my

27   surroundings.     And that‟s all I can do today.
                                36



 1           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER IN GLEE:         So

 2   you‟re very open.    (indiscernible).       Mr. May, do

 3   you have any questions?
 4           DEPUTY COMMISSIONER:       I have no

 5   questions.
 6           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          With

 7   that in mind, then, I‟d like to take a look at

 8   your prior criminal.    As a juvenile, you h ad no

 9   record.    As an adult, you have in your case an

10   arrest on 4/25 of 1977 for the possession of

11   stolen property involving forged instruments.

12   That‟s under, also known as Terry Delores

13   Thomas.    Was that the name that you used when

14   you were on the run?
15           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes, sir. That‟s

16   correct.
17           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          That was

18   the name you used?
19           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes, sir.

20           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         Okay.   Is

21   there anything you want to discuss about that

22   arrest?
23           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Anything long enough?

24   My life is an open book.        What do you want to
25   know?
26           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          What

27   happened regarding the stolen property?
                                 37



 1            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Well, of course, when

 2   you‟re on the run, you meet all kinds of people,

 3   and you‟re just in the survival mode at that

 4   point.    So I got in with some people who were

 5   forging Western Union money orders.         And at the

 6   time, I was in the van.      They went into one of

 7   these record shops to cash one of the checks, or

 8   whatever.    So when they were ca ught inside of

 9   the store, when they were arrested, of course, I

10   was taken in also.    I was arrested alongside of

11   them, but the charges were dropped.         I never

12   went to court or anything on those charges.           I

13   was just arrested along with them.
14            PRESIDING COMM ISSIONER INGLEE:      The

15   employees at that time didn‟t recognize that you

16   were somebody that was arrested (indiscernible).
17            INMATE LAWRENCE:        No.

18            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        All

19   right.    Going into your personal.       Ms. Lawrence

20   was born in Birmingham, Al abama to Minerva and

21   Sedric Davis.    She is the youngest of twelve

22   children who lived in the south until moving to

23   Chicago to attend (indiscernible) college at the

24   age of 18.    At 19, she married her only husband.
25   At age 24, she separated in 1970.         Then she

26   moved to Los Angeles to continue to her

27   education.    Two sons, ages 21 and 22, were born
                                38



 1   of this union.   The couple divorced in 1984

 2   after her incarceration.        High school graduation

 3   and completion of beauty college in Pennsylvania

 4   is claimed, worked as a t elephone service

 5   representative employee and employed in Puerto

 6   Rico as a travel agent, in New York as an

 7   advertising salesperson, and cosmetic

 8   salesperson is indicated.        After completion of

 9   beauty school, she managed a salon and she

10   taught beauty college, the academy in Virginia.

11   Drug use from June 1970 through June 1971

12   acknowledged as part of her relationship with

13   the victim‟s husband.      She assumed marijuana was

14   the substance.   Social use of alcohol is

15   acknowledged.    She indicates limited experience

16   with cocaine and marijuana during the time she

17   was at large.    No psychiatric mental history is

18   indicated.   No indication of sexual deviation.

19   Let‟s skip down to the drugs for a moment.

20   Prior to the murder, you probably had used

21   marijuana, is it safe to say?
22           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes, sir.

23           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        Were

24   there any other drugs used at that point in
25   time?
26           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Not that I know of.

27           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        Well,
                               39



 1   you‟re the only one I can talk to.
 2         INMATE LAWRENCE:         At a party, I was

 3   partying, and after the party, I had had

 4   marijuana cigarettes, and I assume they were

 5   marijuana cigarettes, because I didn‟t know

 6   anything about drugs at that particular time.
 7         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         Later

 8   on, I assume that du ring that 11 -year period,

 9   you had opportunity to use drugs at that point.
10         INMATE LAWRENCE:         Yes, I did.

11         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         To what

12   extent did you use narcotics?
13         INMATE LAWRENCE:         I used cocaine on two

14   or three occasions.     I could not -- I could not

15   get into drinking and drugs because I was living

16   in the survival mode, and it was very difficult.

17   I had to keep -- but I did experiment.       I did

18   experiment with cocaine, marijuana, a quelude

19   one time, and couldn‟t remember where I was and

20   how I got home, so that was not something I

21   wanted to again, so that discouraged from ever

22   doing that again.     So just periodically with new

23   people that I met along the way, whatever crowd

24   that I was with at that time, I may have
25   experimented, but as far as usin g, buying,

26   having, I never got involved in that type of

27   drug use.
                                 40



 1            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:           How long

 2   a period of time -- over what period of time

 3   were you using drugs in any way?          Eleven years?
 4            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Well, it was 11 years,

 5   but it wasn‟t using.    As I said, as I met

 6   people, and everybody I met wasn‟t using drugs.
 7            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:           How

 8   about -- how about alcohol?
 9            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Socially.     Because as

10   I said, as the record indicates, I was a travel

11   agent.    So I was socializing with people from

12   all over the world at that time, and I was

13   invited to parties and that type of thing.              And

14   most of the stuff that was there was alcohol.

15   It wasn‟t great drug use with the people that I

16   was hanging out with most of the time.
17            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          Did you

18   abuse alcohol?
19            INMATE LAWRENCE:        No.   Not at all.

20            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:           Okay.

21   At the time you murdered this lady, did you --

22   were you drinking at that time or under the

23   influence of any substance at tha t point in

24   time?
25            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes, I was.

26            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          Did you

27   drink prior to going over to her home?
                                 41



 1            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Yes.

 2            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        To what

 3   extent did you drink?
 4            INMATE LAWRENCE:        It was the party.        It

 5   was the party from Saturday until the wee hours

 6   of Sunday morning.
 7            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        So that

 8   was an extended party.
 9            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Extended party.     So as

10   I said, Robert stayed over the weekend, so we

11   continued to party way into the wee hours of

12   Sunday morning, before he left going to work.
13            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        So when

14   you went over to her home, you were under the

15   influence of alcohol at that time?
16            INMATE LAWRENCE:        I‟m sure I was.     It

17   was in my system.
18            PRESIDING COMM ISSIONER INGLEE:       Well,

19   being in your system and continued drinking is

20   generally two different things.
21            INMATE LAWRENCE:        I didn‟t take a drink

22   before I went over, if that‟s what you‟re

23   asking.
24            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        Yes.
25            INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, sir, I didn‟t.

26            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        All

27   right.    With that, I‟d like to ask Mr. May if he
                                     42



 1   would discuss the parole plans and post -

 2   conviction package.
 3                DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:        All right

 4   thank you.
 5                INMATE LAWRENCE:        Thank you, Mr. Inglee.

 6                DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:       Some of the

 7   areas I‟m going to be discussing.             First I want

 8   just to put on record that there was a grant of

 9   parole May the 18 t h , 2004, and there was a

10   Governor‟s reversal, and that was October the

11   11 t h .     And for the record, we h ad entered into

12   the record his reversal.

13              “On the morning of February 15 t h ,

14              1971, Sandra Lawrence murdered Ruby

15              Williams by shooting and stabbing

16              her multiple times.       Ms. Lawrence

17              and the victim‟s husband started an

18              affair several months before the

19              murder.    Mrs. Williams knew about

20              the affair and threatened to leave

21              Mr. Williams, and he did not break

22              it off.   At some point, the affair

23              ended.    On the morning of the

24              murder, Mr. Williams telephone Mrs.
25              Lawrence and mentioned that his

26              wife was at his dental prac tice

27              waiting for deliveries.       After the
                         43



 1   call, Mrs. Lawrence went to her

 2   sister‟s home, let her inside, and

 3   took a gun without permission that

 4   was kept under the mattress.        Mrs.

 5   Lawrence then went to Mr. Williams‟

 6   office.   Following a confrontation

 7   at the office with the victim, Mrs.

 8   Lawrence pulled out the gun and

 9   began shooting, striking Mrs.

10   Williams in the arm, hand, neck and

11   leg.   As Mrs. Williams lay on the

12   floor, Mrs. Lawrence stabbed her

13   multiple times.    After leaving the

14   scene, Mrs. Lawrence returne d the

15   gun to her sister‟s home and went

16   home to bed.   Mrs. Williams‟ dead

17   body was found by Mr. Williams.

18   Two months later, Mrs. Lawrence

19   fled the state.    For more than 11

20   years, she lived in different

21   States and Puerto Rico, using

22   various aliases.    Altho ugh she

23   eventually returned to California

24   and surrendered to authorities, she
25   denied any involvement with Mrs.

26   Williams‟ murder, and instead tried

27   to blame Mr. Williams.    Despite her
                        44



 1   not guilty plea, she was convicted

 2   by a jury of first degree murder

 3   and sentenced to an indeterminate

 4   life term in prison.    The judgment

 5   was affirmed on appeal.     At the

 6   time of the murder, Mrs. Lawrence

 7   was 24 years old and had no

 8   previous criminal record.      During

 9   the 22 years‟ incarceration,

10   although she has been counseled

11   seven times for minor misconduct,

12   Mrs. Lawrence has remained

13   disciplinary free and has worked to

14   enhance her ability to function

15   within the law upon release.      In

16   addition to earning a Bachelor‟s

17   degree, she has worked towards

18   obtaining a Master‟s degree in

19   business administration.     She also

20   has received vocational training in

21   plumbing, data processing and word

22   processing, and she has skilled

23   jobs within the institution

24   setting.   Mrs. Lawrence has
25   participated in self -help therapy,

26   including an array of substan ce

27   abuse programs, stress management,
                        45



 1   and just recently anger management.

 2   She was a charter member of the

 3   SI10 tutoring program and

 4   volunteered to record books for the

 5   blind.   Moreover, she has

 6   established and maintained solid

 7   relationships with her famil y while

 8   incarcerated, and has had made

 9   realistic parole plans for herself,

10   including a job offer in a

11   (indiscernible) living program.

12   These are all factors that tend to

13   support parole.   Although in early

14   prison reports Ms. Lawrence was

15   categorized by ment al health

16   evaluators as schizophrenic --

17   sociopathic -- I‟m sorry --

18   sociopathic, unstable and psychotic

19   -- psychopathic, her more recent

20   mental health evaluations are

21   favorable.   Similarly, although it

22   was not until more than a decade

23   after the murder dur ing prisoner‟s

24   evaluation when Mrs. Lawrence
25   accepted any responsibility for the

26   crime, she now admits to the murder

27   and says she is remorseful.     She
                          46



 1   told the Board at her 2004 parole

 2   hearing that she is sorry for the

 3   pain that she caused everyone

 4   involved, including Mrs. Williams‟

 5   two young children.       Nevertheless,

 6   there is some evidence in the

 7   record before me to indicate Ms.

 8   Lawrence continues to minimize her

 9   murderous conduct.    In the 1991

10   mental health report, the evaluator

11   noted that despite Ms. Lawre nce‟s

12   previous claim of being unable to

13   recall the details of the murder,

14   Ms. Lawrence smiled brashly and

15   acknowledged that she has always

16   remembered killing Mrs. Williams.

17   In 2002, when asked by the Board

18   after a hearing what she would have

19   done differently, Ms. Lawrence in

20   part that she would not get

21   involved with a married man.       And

22   in 2004, she told the Board that

23   she wasn‟t shooting at her or the

24   victim, and she didn‟t even know
25   the gun was loaded.       She also said,

26   I don‟t think any skin was broken

27   from the stabbing.    Ms. Lawrence‟s
                        47



 1   statements sounds less like -- like

 2   a remorseful taking ownership for

 3   her conduct, and more like a person

 4   failing to recognize or take

 5   seriously the negative of her

 6   crime.   The murder perpetrated by

 7   Ms. Lawrence demonstrates a

 8   shockingly vicious use of

 9   (indiscernible) and exceptionally

10   callous disregard for human

11   suffering, because after she shot

12   Mrs. Williams four times, causing

13   her to collapse to the floor, Ms.

14   Lawrence stabbed her repeatedly.

15   She made it a point to arm he rself,

16   not with one weapon, but with two,

17   and show up at the location where

18   she knew she would find her victim.

19   And at the 2002 hearing, as she

20   said the reason for doing this was

21   because „I always viewed Mrs.

22   Williams as an obstacle in my

23   fantasy romance, that she was the

24   one that was keeping me from having
25   what I wanted.   So in my mind, it

26   was natural for me to confront her

27   as though she would disappear.‟
                          48



 1   This was a cold, pre -meditated

 2   murder, and it was committed for an

 3   incredibly petty reason.       Likewis e,

 4   Ms. Lawrence‟s conduct after the

 5   murder illustrates a chilling

 6   evilness.     According to the

 7   appellate decision, she later told

 8   her sister -in-law that the killing

 9   a birthday present to herself.       Ms.

10   Lawrence‟s birthday was two days

11   before the murder.     The

12   circumstances of the first degree

13   murder committed by Ms. Lawrence

14   were atrocious and the gravity of

15   this crime is enough to not

16   conclude that Ms. Lawrence‟s

17   release from prison at this time

18   would pose an unreasonable risk to

19   society.     After carefully

20   considering the very same factors

21   that the Board of Prison Terms must

22   consider, I believe Ms. Lawrence

23   would pose an unreasonable risk to

24   society if paroled at this time.
25   Currently, I reverse the Board‟s

26   2004 decision to parole Ms.

27   Lawrence.”
                                 49



 1   Signed Arnold Schwarzenegger. Since her last

 2   hearing, Ms. Lawrence has been very, very busy,

 3   as evidenced in a number of chronos here that I

 4   will go over.    She should be commended for not

 5   (indiscernible), but since being incarcerated,

 6   there is a -- I want to note -- there‟s a

 7   discrepancy here.    The counselor‟s report -- the

 8   counselor says on December the 3 r d , 1983, inmate

 9   started a seven-year to life term.            Her overall

10   institutional adjustment has been commendable.

11   She has -- since her reception in CDC, she has

12   received ten custodial chronos. The counselor

13   notes seven of them, but not ten.         So therefore

14   I reviewed the C File and found that there are

15   eight.    So the fact is that there are eight.

16   And I want to also correct -- since we were

17   using at that time the -- what the counselor

18   said of seven, that was at the last -- while

19   there are eight, eight custodial chronos.            Okay?

20   But you‟re still commended, because there‟s no

21   one (indiscernible).
22            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Thank you.

23            DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:       And there‟s a

24    -- on August the 17 t h , 2005, there‟s a
25   laudatory chrono that you “conducted an

26   exceptional level of professionalism continually

27   for the past 17 years, and that in my
                                  50



 1   observation, the inmate Lawrence clearly shows

 2   (indiscernible) motivated team player who

 3   interacts with everyone in a courteous manner.”

 4   And that‟s signed by second watch, L. Flores.

 5   There‟s a chrono showing your continued

 6   participation in conflict transformation skills

 7   conducted by the start of the Justice Center of

 8   the (indiscernible) Empire.          And that‟s dated

 9   July the 30 t h , 2005.     And one is showing your

10   participation in Toastmasters organization since

11   July, 2003.       Your participation in the Women‟s

12   First Job Fair. That was Saturday, April the

13   9 t h , 2005.    Pathway to Wholeness -- it‟s a

14   spiritually based program for its healing and

15   wholeness, and that‟s March of 2005.          Your

16   participation in the (indiscernible) journey of

17   penance reformation and reconciliation.          And

18   that‟s March 2005, and shows that you‟re an

19   active member of the Interfaith Chapel of

20   (indiscernible).       That was January of 2005.        And

21   here‟s a -- for your participation in the Martin

22   Luther King‟s Observance.          That was January the

23   17 t h , 2005.   One for volunteering your services

24   -- Christmas stockings, and this was your
25   talent, dedication and community efforts were

26   appreciated.       That‟s January the 18 t h , 2005.
27            ATTORNEY HEMPEL:         I‟d just like to add
                                51



 1   that there are three more chronos in the parole

 2   packet for participation in the Creative

 3   Conflict Resolution Workshop that

 4   (indiscernible) -- I‟m sorry.
 5           DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:        I was going to

 6   look at that.
 7           ATTORNEY HEMPEL:    Oh, I‟m sorry.

 8           DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:       No, that‟s

 9   okay.    But I was going to ask you in a minute --
10           ATTORNEY HEMPEL:        My apologies.

11           DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:       -- if I had

12   included everything.      No, that‟s fine.       I

13   appreciate, and I‟m sure Ms. Lawrence

14   appreciates your thoroughness on her behalf.

15   Okay.    I was going to go over that right now.

16   Like I said, the conflict transformation, the

17   Toastmasters, and -- thank you -- all right.

18   Then you‟ve attended the Pathway to Wholeness.

19   And what else? Since you just mentioned it,

20   we‟ll go on.    Is there anything else that you

21   did.    This was a lot.    Is there anything that

22   I‟ve omitted -- other self -help groups that

23   you‟ve been in since your last hearing that I

24   have not mentioned?
25           INMATE LAWRENCE:        No.

26           DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:        You‟re

27   currently -- what‟s your current involvement?
                                 52



 1   What do you do right now?
 2         INMATE LAWRENCE:           My work assignment?

 3         DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:           Yeah.

 4         INMATE LAWRENCE:       I‟m in office services.

 5         DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:           Office

 6   services.
 7         INMATE LAWRENCE:           Yes.   And I‟m updating

 8   my computer skills.
 9         DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:            And, well, it

10   says that you‟ve been an asset to the group.

11   And they said you received above -average

12   evaluations in that field for the record.           Is

13   there anything I‟ve omitted?
14         INMATE LAWRENCE:           Well, last time, when

15   we spoke last year, I was in the process of

16   getting my Master‟s degree.
17         DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:           Oh, let me g et

18   to that.    That‟s right.    That was mentioned

19   already, but you -- since then, you did -- you

20   did get your Master‟s, right?           So why don‟t you

21   tell us about that?
22         INMATE LAWRENCE:       Well, I received my

23   Master‟s degree in June of last year -- June of

24   this year -- I‟m sorry.
25         DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:            And that was

26   in what?
27         INMATE LAWRENCE:       Business -- Masters in
                                53



 1   Business Administration.        So I did complete

 2   that.
 3           (INDISCERNIBLE):        Excuse me one second.

 4   What school did you get that from?
 5           INMATE LAWRENCE:        This is a

 6   correspondence course from Newport Beach

 7   University.   It‟s an online learning center.
 8           DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:       And this is

 9   going to be mentioned again.        (indiscernible).

10   We will go over some of the letters in reference

11   to the 3042 notices. We do have a member of the

12   District Attorney‟s Office, and Los Angeles

13   County will be speaking for the people.        Here

14   are some support letters.        And this is from L.J.

15   Erin, Lieutenant.   It says Sandra Lawrence began

16   work as a physical fitness trainer at the

17   California Institution for Women September 9 t h ,

18   2000. She trains and tests prospective

19   candidates, conditions physically for the CIW

20   training program.   She is a superb motivator and

21   trainer. There‟s a letter from Sherille

22   Cheathan, S-H-E-R-I-L-L-E, C-H-E-T-H-A-N, and

23   she‟s a W-65492.    And she says, “If I may, I‟m

24   speaking on behalf of all the physical fitness
25   trainees” --(indiscernible) women who have

26   willingly put their signatures on this letter,

27   and there are 78 signatures.        And so that‟s why
                            54



 1   I‟m going to read it into the record.

 2         “For those lives this woman has

 3         touched, I and these other women

 4         would like very much for all of

 5         you to know how very much we are

 6         appreciate what Sandra has done

 7         for us in reference to getting

 8         some self-esteem, along with

 9         some know-how, along with mental

10         strength and physical strength.

11         She has never once let any one

12         of us give up on the goals we

13         were trying hard to achieve.

14         Also I would like to commend her

15         on being just one person that

16         has to deal with hundreds of

17         hundreds of women with different

18         personalities and attitudes, and

19         still remains the strong woman

20         that she is today, and still

21         continues to get up each morning

22         and encourage and teach us how

23         to be just as strong.   This is

24         just a very short, meaningful
25         letter for the Boa rd members to

26         let you know that we truly

27         appreciate Mrs. Lawrence and
                              55



 1         what she has done for us and our

 2         lives, as well as our children.

 3         The reason I‟m writing this

 4         letter is because I truly

 5         believe that if a person such as

 6         Ms. Lawrence gives so much of

 7         herself to so many people, then

 8         the least we can do is give

 9         something back.    I feel she

10         deserves this and much more.”

11   There‟s a letter from L. Brandon,

12   (indiscernible) English Department, and for

13   several years she took my college English class

14   through the University of Laverne program at

15   California Institution for Women.     She is a good

16   student.   There is the Dioceses of San

17   Bernardino.    I‟m a religious volunteer at the

18   California Institution for Women, and Sandra

19   appears to be positive, outgoing, and friendl y

20   in her behavior.    There‟s a letter from Sister

21   Mary (indiscernible), coordinator of the

22   Partnership for Reentry Program:

23        “These are a few of the words that

24        describe Sandra Lawrence serving a
25        seven-year to life sentence for

26        murder.    I‟ve looked through ma ny

27        of the documents, both from the
                            56



 1        court and from the individuals

 2        that talks about Ms. Lawrence.

 3        She is indeed a remarkable woman.

 4        She‟s applied and has been

 5        accepted into the Archdioceses

 6        Partnership for Reentry Program.

 7        This is a parish sponsored fait h-

 8        based program of support,

 9        mentoring and journey

10        (indiscernible). The program is

11        four years, and upon release,

12        where the mentor and team meets

13        with the participant weekly.      I am

14        confident of both Sandra‟s and the

15        team‟s success in working

16        together.”

17   There‟s another letter from Sister Agnes saying

18   Ms. Lawrence has full support of the Los Angeles

19   Archdioceses Partnership for Reentry.      There‟s a

20   letter from the Office of the Bishop that‟s --

21         “(indiscernible) the Dioceses of

22         San Bernardino, I as Bishop am a

23         regular visitor there, and know

24         how committed at CIW are to
25         rehabilitate themselves.    I have

26         known Sandra Lawrence for the

27         past number of years.   I urge
                              57



 1         that you would grant Sandra

 2         Lawrence release from prison,

 3         knowing that she will be a

 4         productive member of society if

 5         given a chance.”

 6   There‟s a letter from Ann Ableson, and “I have

 7   been in contact with Sandra twice a week for the

 8   past three years,” and she commends you for what

 9   you are doing for the institution.    There‟s a

10   letter from Corrine Bayley, B -A-Y-L-E-Y.    “I

11   have known Ms. Lawrence for the past three and a

12   half years, since I began attending weekly mass

13   at the California Institution for Women.”    And

14   she shows her support.   A letter from Joe

15   Hopkins, and he‟s the attorney at law that

16   represented Sandra Lawrence in her murder case.

17       “In evaluating the character of Ms.

18       Lawrence for parole or for any

19       purpose, it should be noted that

20       Ms. Lawrence voluntarily

21       surrendered herself to the

22       California Justice System for the

23       trial.   She stayed out on bail

24       during her trial and appeared at
25       all necessary court hearings.     She

26       accepted the court‟s justice and

27       began paying her debt to society.”
                               58



 1   We have another from Corrine Bayley, a religious

 2   volunteer at CIW.    She goes here six months --

 3   six times a month, and she atten ds the Catholic

 4   mass.

 5           “I have had an opportunity to

 6           observe many people in my life,

 7           as I am sure you have.    I am

 8           convinced that Ms. Lawrence not

 9           only possesses no threat to

10           society, but is well prepared to

11           make a significant

12           contribution.”

13   A letter from Gloria Julian, a Doctor of

14   Education.

15           “I am a religious volunteer at

16           California Institution for

17           Women.   I have also seen and

18           consulted with Franklin

19           (indiscernible), a premier

20           international consulting firm

21           specializing in leadership and

22           transformation.   I‟ ve had an

23           opportunity to know and observe

24           Ms. Lawrence for a few years,
25           and want to assure you of her

26           integrity, maturity and

27           leadership abilities.”
                             59



 1   There‟s a letter from Crossroads to verify that

 2   they have a residence for you upon release.      A

 3   letter -- this shows that from 1984 to 1988,

 4   you were a student at the University of Laverne

 5   where you got your Associates, and then your

 6   Bachelor of Science.   Then from 2002 to 2004,

 7   you received -- in 2004 you received your

 8   Master‟s in Business Administration.   A le tter

 9   from Patty Waters, training recruitment, the

10   Press Enterprise, and they just sent a letter

11   that they‟re interested, but that you have to

12    -- “While it‟s our goal to recruit and retrain

13   quality talent, we are unable to provide you

14   with a formal offer o f employment until which

15   time you are able to provide us with a firm

16   release date and availability for work.     While

17   some positions are currently available that do

18   match your qualifications, we simply have no

19   way of knowing if these same positions will be

20   available at the time that you are ready for

21   work due to the ever changing market

22   conditions.”   And there‟s a petition here.     We

23   have letters from family and friends -- Denise

24   Davis, and they send support.   Walter Davis.
25   There‟s a letter from Vivian Davis

26   (indiscernible) sister, and “We are homeowners,

27   taxpayers and law abiding citizens.”   And they
                              60



 1   certainly indicate that they would give you

 2   various support of your release.     And then

 3   another letter of support from Vivian Feldner,

 4   and a petition with a host o f signatures from

 5   friends and relatives.   And they say, “We, the

 6   undersigned, strongly believe that a travesty

 7   of injustice has occurred by the Governor of

 8   California reversing the Board of Prison Terms‟

 9   2004 Decision to grant parole to Sandra Davis

10   after 21 years of arduous rehabilitation and

11   transformation.”   And there are pages of

12   signatures to that petition.     Did I cover all

13   the letters?   The psychiatric report -- the

14   most recent psychiatric report, June 13 t h , 2005

15   -- Dr. Smith -- Axis I diagnosis, Axis III,

16   glaucoma, hormone replacement therapy.      Axis IV

17   starts with incarceration.     Axis V, a GAF of

18   85.   The doctor did not make any special

19   mention, but he did say when in a controlled

20   setting, a review of the Central File indicates

21   that there had been som e minor disciplinary

22   infractions, mostly appearing in the early

23   1990s, although there was a single

24   documentation in April of 2005.     There is a
25   single documentation in November of 1992

26   indicating that inmate Lawrence has become

27   argumentative and threatening in her tone of
                               61



 1   voice in discussing a medication issue with a

 2   nurse in a clinic area.    And this is the only

 3   documentation in the complete Central File

 4   which would suggest any such behavior.        Her

 5   clinical presentation is free of any indication

 6   that she tends to conduct herself in a violent

 7   and intimidating and threatening manner.        The

 8   doctor concluded about the release of inmates

 9   from a women‟s institution versus the men‟s

10   institution, but since the doctor did not give

11   any specific assessment, I‟ll refer to the

12   April 2004 assessment by Dr. Hugh:

13         “The inmate has not demonstrated

14         herself to be dangerous within a

15         controlled setting.       I concur

16         with the opinion of Dr. McDaniel

17         that she has demonstrated a

18         tremendous amount of

19         understanding of the events in

20         her early life which resulted in

21         the sequence of events that led

22         up to her incarceration.       I

23         believe with the passage of time

24         and her years of maturity that
25         her current level of violence

26         potential is estimated to be

27         greatly decreased.       She has been
                        62



 1   able to look at her past

 2   relationships and understands

 3   the type of predatory and

 4   pathological men she has been

 5   associated with.     Ms. Lawrence

 6   is now able to look at her

 7   behavior and formulate a number

 8   of different options in order to

 9   avoid conflict and/or violence

10   in other settings in that

11   situation.     She has shown

12   motivation in improving herself,

13   not only through vocational

14   pursuits, but also through self -

15   initiated effort.       I believe

16   that Ms. Lawrence has the

17   internal resources necessary to

18   become a productive member of

19   society.     She has further

20   learned to look at the

21   motivation behind her behavior,

22   and to assess each situation

23   more realistically, and to make

24   informed and thoughtful
25   decisions.     I believe she would

26   be able to maintain a strict

27   adherence to rules and
                                63



 1           regulations that govern our

 2           society should she be granted an

 3           opportunity for parole.    Ms.

 4           Lawrence was informed that she

 5           consult me again regarding this

 6           report.”

 7   With that, I‟ll return it to the chair.
 8           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:      Okay.

 9   Thank you very much. I just want to go over one

10   or two items with you, Ms. Lawrence.      In the

11   plan, and maybe, Mr. May, I had to step out just

12   a moment, but I don‟t believe he was discussing

13   your plan at that time.     I think he was reading

14   --
15           DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:     Sorry about

16   that.   You want the -- ?
17           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:     I‟ve got

18   it right here.     I‟ll go back to you.
19           DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:     I did say that

20   she job offers, and I also had mentioned about

21   the Dioceses was going to offer a place.      Why

22   don‟t you continue?
23           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:     It seems

24   Ms. Lawrence has made positive employment plans
25   with SDA Craft Technology, and I have not been

26   able to find anything on that.
27           INMATE LAWRENCE:    No.   That was -- that
                               64



 1   was last year.     My new job offer is from Press

 2   Enterprise, and Mr. May did read that into the

 3   record.
 4         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         Can I

 5   see that?
 6         DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:        That‟s a

 7   letter.
 8         INMATE LAWRENCE:     And it‟s to hire upon

 9   release.
10         DEPUTY COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         I think I

11   did hear it, but let me make sure it‟s the same

12   that I‟m thinking about it.       While he‟s looking

13   at that, I just have one other issue.       Getting

14   back to -- I want to just re -step a couple of

15   the issues in your discussion of the crime

16   itself.     (indiscernible) back to that unpleasant

17   period.     When you left the -- when you left

18   home, you took an instrument with you -- a

19   kitchen instrument with you, being a potato

20   peeler.
21         INMATE LAWRENCE:         Yes.

22         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         And I

23   understand what that is now from our discussion.

24   Particularly you said our mothers
25   (indiscernible).     Obviously I wasn‟t using it,

26   but I understand.     And then you went to your

27   sister‟s home, and you knew your sister had a
                                65



 1   pistol at home.     And you knew that she kept it

 2   under the bed in a locked room to stay away from

 3   the children.     So you went to her bedroom

 4   obviously to get into her bedroom, go over to

 5   the bed where you knew that the pistol -- the

 6   pistol was hidden.     You took the pistol and the

 7   kitchen instrument with you to see Mrs.

 8   Williams.
 9           INMATE LAWRENCE:    Yes, sir.

10           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:      Okay.

11   We‟ll get back to this.     I want to finish this

12   line of discussion first, and then we‟ll go back

13   to this.     Did Mrs. Williams ever threaten you in

14   the past?
15           INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, sir.

16           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:      The

17   discussion was always that you‟re destroying my

18   family.     Was it that type of discussion?
19           INMATE LAWRENCE:    Yes, sir.

20           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:      Why would

21   you feel it was necessary to arm yourself to the

22   extent -- and I know you were excited, and I

23   know you were upset.     I believe you discussed

24   that.     I can understand that.     But you did arm
25   yourself considerably.     It wasn‟t -- maybe the

26   grabbing of the potato may have been a bit

27   irrational.     But certainly go ing to your
                              66



 1   sister‟s home and going into a locked bedroom

 2   and going to pick the gun up --
 3         INMATE LAWRENCE:        The bedroom wasn‟t

 4   locked that day.
 5         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       Well, you

 6   categorized it as a locked bedroom.
 7         INMATE LAWRENCE:     As it was presented to

 8   me when she first told me about the gun.
 9         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       But you

10   went into the bedroom.
11         INMATE LAWRENCE:     Yes, sir.

12         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       But the

13   gun, though, it was hidden -- it was still

14   hidden.
15         INMATE LAWRENCE:     It was under the

16   mattress -- under the mattress.
17         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       And you

18   picked the gun up and you went over there.         It

19   might be the -- still I have a hard time

20   (indiscernible)
21         INMATE LAWRENCE:     So do I.

22         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       Why did

23   you feel you had to arm yourself to the extent

24   you did to see a woman who in the past had never
25   threatened you -- had never threatened you with

26   any kind of bodily harm?      At least that was the

27   impression that I got.     Why did you think you
                               67



 1   had to arm yourself to the extent that you did?
 2         INMATE LAWRENCE:     Well, threats.   You

 3   asked me how she threatened me bodily.      There‟s

 4   more -- there‟s emotional threats.      I mean, I

 5   was going through a highly, highly -- highly

 6   emotional at this time, during this whol e

 7   period.   So the indications -- I‟m trying to

 8   answer the question as you‟re giving it to me,

 9   as far as she‟s making threats against my life

10   bodily, but no, we had an ongoing, ongoing

11   cursing, arguing and blaming and all of that was

12   going on for months and months and months.         And

13   it had escalated to that point.      And I‟m not

14   trying to minimize it.     I‟m not trying to

15   minimize my part in that.      It‟s just you‟re

16   asking a question -- 34 years ago to a 24 -year-

17   old emotionally corrupted person.      So I know

18   it‟s very, very hard to try to understand it in

19   our mature minds today.     But back then, 34 years

20   ago, being involved in the situation, it was

21   just out -- it just got out of hand -- totally

22   out of hand.     It just got out of hand.   It was

23   totally an emotional ordeal.
24         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        I relate

25   to -- at 24 years old, I was never in your

26   situation.     But I was in military situations

27   where similar life things were happening around
                               68



 1   me.   I remember them as if it was yesterday,

 2   only because of the dramatic as pects involved.

 3   And I don‟t suggest that because I did that, you

 4   should do it also.     We‟re two different people.

 5   You‟re a female, and I‟m a male.        And these

 6   things -- I don‟t understand everyone‟s

 7   emotions.     That‟s not my training and

 8   background.     Howeve r, relating to myself, I

 9   remember those dramatic parts of my life.

10   (indiscernible)     I don‟t dwell on them, but

11   they‟re there.     And that‟s the reason why I

12   asked the question.     Okay.   Let‟s move over to

13   -- let‟s move over to the letter.        And this is

14   Press Enterprise.     This is a newspaper?
15          INMATE LAWRENCE:     Yes, sir.

16          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:

17   (indiscernible)     Have you attempted to make a --

18   this (indiscernible) your finalization, I expect

19   you to obtain a position here.      (indiscernible).

20   However, it does have qualifiers in it, and not

21   just the qualifier from him, but obviously you

22   have to be released to have a job.        We all

23   understand that, and I can understand that

24   employer saying the same things.        However, you
25   do qualify by the fact that this is a re sult of

26   the job fair -- this letter that came.
27          INMATE LAWRENCE:     Yes, sir.
                               69



 1          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:      Did you

 2   ever give any consideration to having backup --

 3   backup opportunities for employment?
 4          INMATE LAWRENCE:    Certainly.    Well, just

 5   to speak on the job fair aspect, it was a unique

 6   opportunity that was presented to us where

 7   employers came into the institution to interview

 8   prospective people.   And I was chosen as one of

 9   those selected to interview.    It was a wonderful

10   experience, because being inca rcerated 21 years,

11   you don‟t have the opportunity to sit before a

12   potential employer and get that experience of

13   answering questions or meeting the

14   qualifications that they‟re asking for in the

15   job.   So it was a wonderful opportunity.      And I

16   feel honored in having that opportunity.       But

17   yes, that particular company came in and

18   interviewed with a potential letter of

19   employment, potential employment.       But also, I‟m

20   going to Crossroads, and you have to know how

21   difficult an employment situation has to be for

22   a person who has been incarcerated for 21 years,

23   you know.   How can you -- the only thing that I

24   could get is a place that offers the opportunity
25   and the support system and the networking

26   system, that with my qualifications, could put

27   me in a position to be employed.     So that is
                               70



 1   about as good as it gets for us around here,

 2   other than what we‟ve been able to accomplish

 3   with the job fair.
 4            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:   Well, I

 5   understand that.     And by the way, I have spoken

 6   to a lot of people in regards to s uch things.

 7   As you can imagine, it‟s what I do five days a

 8   week.    That‟s why I discuss this a lot with

 9   folks.    And it‟s not unusual, when they say to

10   you, you simply have no way knowing -- I

11   understand what they‟re saying.     I mean, I‟ve

12   written enough let ters to people that when I

13   know I‟m gonna hire somebody, but when I say I

14   simply have no way of knowing, I‟m leaving a big

15   hole there for an opportunity to say to somebody

16   it‟s just not available today.     It doesn‟t mean

17   you don‟t have a position there.     It does mean,

18   though, that there is -- you have a big

19   (indiscernible) by saying what they‟re seeing.

20   And this in itself doesn‟t negate the letter.

21   But I probably -- if for any reason you‟re not

22   given a date today, I would suggest that you

23   might want to get a backup position with this.

24   Now you said you are lucky to get the one. Well,
25   you know, you‟re really an ambitious person. I

26   can only assume with my short experience with

27   you here.    I‟ve seen your academic achievements
                                 71



 1   and how hard you worked on these th ings, and I

 2   know what kind of job you want to get.

 3   Sometimes, you have to take a step down to make

 4   that happen.     And so there are positions out

 5   there that one can get.       And these are not

 6   demeaning positions, but they are not

 7   necessarily what you are looki ng for.       Because

 8   there are people who are hired -- there are

 9   hired folks who are coming out of this, and they

10   seek them out.       And so you do have companies

11   that will do that.       It may not be the specific

12   position that you‟re looking for right now, but

13   they may be a stepping stone to doing something

14   more.    So I‟m not suggesting you should accept

15   less.    I‟m just saying that I would think that

16   if this has to come up again, I would consider a

17   backup position.       In the case of men, I must

18   admit most -- because ther e are far more men in

19   prison than there are women -- they do

20   everything from washing cars to getting jobs of

21   putting roofs on houses, or whatever it takes to

22   start.   And I‟m not suggesting that you do that.

23   I‟m just using that as an example, the kind of

24   work that I see men will take from time to time.
25   So anyway, I just wanted to ask you that

26   question.    Good.     All right.   With that in mind,

27   then, I‟ll turn it over to the District
                               72



 1   Attorney.     Do you have any questions?
 2          DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY MURRAY:          Yes, I

 3   do.   Did you ever consider asking the inmate

 4   regarding the -- first, if she just talked about

 5   getting out of the environment (indiscernible)

 6   What was the threat that the victim made towards

 7   the inmate?
 8          PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       In our

 9   discussion, and I‟m paraphrasing what she was

10   saying -- in our discussion you did come around

11   to say there were threats.       And I sort of heard

12   you were saying emotional threats of some sort.

13   Could you better describe this to answer her

14   question?
15          INMATE LAWRENCE:        In the beginning, I

16   did say that Mrs. Williams had several, several

17   telephone calls -- telephone conversations, even

18   to the point where I changed my number on

19   several occasions, and she was able to get the

20   number again.     And I don‟t know how she got the

21   number now.     But as I said earlier, she would

22   exchange cars.     She would leave notes on my

23   door, and I wake up in the morning and find

24   notes when I go outside.       So I -- I would
25   consider those emotional threats, and the

26   arguments.     And I‟m not blaming her.    I ‟m just

27   saying this was not just ordinary conversations
                              73



 1   that you talk to a person about something

 2   calmly.   It was always a volatile conversation.
 3         DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY MURRAY:           And

 4   how much time had occurred from the last time

 5   the victim left emotion al threats to the date

 6   you murdered her?
 7         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        What was

 8   the time period between the last emotional type

 9   of -- (interrupted by end of Tape 1)
10         INMATE LAWRENCE:        As I said earlier,

11   Mrs. Williams was not my big -- she wasn‟t --

12   and the time period -- we had broken off the

13   relationship I would say November.      So I had no

14   contact to either one of them from November to

15   the birthday party, give or take, you know, a

16   few weeks.   So there was no communication with

17   Mrs. Williams.   This came about Mr. Williams --

18   over his decision to come back into my life, and

19   she became my victim, not him.      She had nothing

20   to do with it, so there was no immediate threat

21   from November until I actually took her life.
22         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       And

23   that‟s how long of a period?
24         INMATE LAWRENCE:    November to February.
25         PRESIDIGN COMMISSINOER INGLEE:       So we‟re

26   talking about a period of three months?
27         INMATE LAWRENCE:    Three months.
                               74



 1         DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY MURRAY:        Has the

 2   inmate indicated if she was (ind iscernible), and

 3   I‟m going to assume the rage was because Mr.

 4   Williams told her that morning he did no longer

 5   want to have a relationship.       And if that‟s

 6   correct, why was her rage directed at Mrs.

 7   Williams?   Mrs. Williams didn‟t do anything.
 8         PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        If you

 9   upset at Mr. Williams because of the fact that

10   he was going to break off the relationship, why

11   did you appear then, to go and take it out on

12   Mrs. Williams?
13         INMATE LAWRENCE:         Because women blame

14   women when not getting what they w ant.      They

15   don‟t blame men.     And a 24 -year-old distraught,

16   betrayed woman looked for the easiest probably

17   person to take out any frustration on.       I wanted

18   him, so in my 24-year-old mine, she was my

19   problem -- he wasn‟t my problem.       So it‟s

20   irrational, it‟s unfounded, it‟s unfair, and I

21   understand that now.     She was not the person to

22   blame for my rage.     I just took it out on her

23   because it was -- it was just probably the

24   easiest thing to do to confront her instead of
25   Robert.
26         DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY MURRAY:        I have

27   no further questions.
                                 75



 1             PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       Counsel,

 2   do you have any questions?
 3            ATTORNEY HEMPEL:    Yes, I do.     Ms. Davis -

 4   Lawrence, was it wrong for you to leave Los

 5   Angeles rather than immediately turn yourself

 6   into the police?
 7            INMATE LAWRENCE:    Looking back, of course

 8   it was wrong.     If you‟re planning to be a part

 9   of society and play by society‟s rules, that was

10   not a good move to make.         I should have stayed

11   and faced the consequences that that time, but I

12   was just not emotionally equ ipped to do that at

13   the time.
14            ATTORNEY HEMPEL:    Was Robert Williams a

15   victim of your crime?
16            INMATE LAWRENCE:        Was he a victim of my

17   crime?    Was he victim?    Of course he was a

18   victim.     He was married to Mrs. Williams.       That

19   really destroyed his family, you know, the

20   children.     The children were the real victims in

21   this.     And it‟s just so hard.      It‟s just so hard

22   to look at this in the scope that it came to --

23   how many people and how many lives were

24   destroyed by that act.
25            ATTORNEY HEMPEL:    What types of things

26   have you learned about yourself in anger

27   management while at CIW?         Do you think it would
                               76



 1   help you deal to situations similar to this one

 2   in the future?
 3         INMATE LAWRENCE:         After 34 years of

 4   therapy -- and I would like to commend the

 5   Department of Corrections.       When I first got

 6   here, we had group therapy and one -on-one

 7   therapy, and I had the opportunity to get a few

 8   years of therapy, which enlightened me to what

 9   your seeing today.     This is not something that I

10   came here with necessarily, but over time,

11   through therapy and interaction and work, I‟ve

12   been able to understand what wrong.       And what I

13   have today that I didn‟t have then was a

14   networking factor.     And that‟s all the letters

15   that Mr. May read and people that have come into

16   my life and added positive aspects to my life.

17   And the bottom line that I‟ve grown in strength

18   where I‟m a part of society.       I‟m not just a

19   solo person out to get what I want out of life.

20   I know that I have to give part of me to life to

21   participate in life.     So therefore , I can‟t take

22   undue advantage of any aspect of life -- any

23   person, any place or anything.       So now I know

24   what my -- what my place is in society.       I was
25   just looking for something back then.       Now I

26   know I have to be a part of something.       And in

27   being a part of something, I‟m responsible to
                                 77



 1   everybody.     I just can‟t go out and do things

 2   that I want to do.     There‟s a consequence in

 3   everything I do.     So I could never harm anybody

 4   again.    I could never do anything that could

 5   cause harm to society as it is, becau se I‟m

 6   hurting people.     Anytime I hurt one person, I‟m

 7   hurting a lot of people.         So I realize that

 8   today.    And I‟m well aware of that.       And I have

 9   these people who have all this faith and

10   confidence in me, and it‟s now way -- it‟s just

11   no way, you know, yo u can disappoint those

12   people, because they have been there for me all

13   of these years, and it‟s now way I could do

14   anything irregular in the future that would

15   cause them any embarrassment or shame.
16            ATTORNEY HEMPEL:        There will be a lot of

17   stresses, even when you are released -- if you

18   are released.     How do you plan on coping with

19   the stresses and pressures?
20            INMATE LAWRENCE:    You cope like a normal,

21   average person.     You have a support network.         I

22   have people -- I have professionals there as

23   you‟ve read.     I have anywhere from teachers to

24   psychologists to business people in my life, and
25   I trust them.     I have one -on-one contact with

26   them on a weekly basis so we can form a bond and

27   a trust with each other.         So any time that I‟m
                                78



 1   experiencing any stress, I hav e somebody that I

 2   can get on the phone and call and say oh, I‟m

 3   not feeling this way today, or I‟m feeling that

 4   way today.     And I can talk it out with people or

 5   could see it another people, because these

 6   people -- some of them are more educated than I

 7   or they have expertise in areas that I don‟t

 8   have expertise.     But I have these people in my

 9   life.   So therefore, I have people.
10           ATTORNEY HEMPEL:    And I have more

11   question.     Crossroads parolees can a job now.

12   Are you willing to work any possible position

13   that this organization helps you find?
14           INMATE LAWRENCE:    Well, of course.    As

15   Mr. Inglee stated, I don‟t go out with any high

16   hopes of going and finding a position of -- of

17   great importance or that would fit my supposedly

18   educated skills and background.        I‟m going out

19   to be a part of society.        In here, I became a

20   plumber, I washed toilets, I put roofs on

21   houses, I‟ve done everything that this

22   institution has allowed me to do.        I worked in

23   some of the choicest spots in the institution,

24   and I worked in the lowes t spots in the
25   institution, so I have a whole array of

26   experience.     I don‟t have a problem with seeking

27   any type of employment.     I just want to get in
                                79



 1   the game and work and become a taxpaying person,

 2   productive citizen.
 3           ATTORNEY HEMPEL:    No further questions.

 4           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         All right

 5   thank you.     One last question.     Again, if you

 6   (indiscernible).     Have you discussed AA at all?

 7   Are you an active member of Alcoholics

 8   Anonymous?
 9           INMATE LAWRENCE:        No, I‟m not.

10           PRESIDIGN COMMISSIONER I NGLEE:         Has that

11   been encouraged in the past?
12           INMATE LAWRENCE:    I was a member of AA

13   over the years, and as far as I‟m concerned, as

14   you will know, in the beginning of my drug use,

15   I never considered myself a drug abuser.          I‟ve

16   experimented and I tried t o be frank and

17   truthful with the experimentation of drugs, but

18   I never considered myself an abuser of drugs or

19   alcohol.     But I went for years to AA because I

20   have children who have become involved in drugs.

21   So I wanted the information for myself as well

22   as for them.     They were my motivators for

23   learning AA‟s principles and how to look at

24   people who have this disease and what motivates
25   them.   And I know some of the things that

26   motivated my own children, because of me not

27   being there, but to be open and will ing to
                                80



 1   accept them in spite of their drug use.          So that

 2   information I got, and I‟m well aware of some of

 3   the causes and some of the feelings behind

 4   using, so I didn‟t feel that I have to have AA

 5   as a part of my journey.
 6           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          Are you

 7   following a twelve -step program at all?
 8           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Every day.

 9           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         What is

10   the first step?
11           INMATE LAWRENCE: The first one.

12           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:         What is

13   that?
14           INMATE LAWRENCE:    That was knowing that I

15   had a problem, just knowing that I was out of

16   control, and I had a problem, and I was willing.

17   I was willing to give it over and to become a

18   better person.
19           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          What‟s

20   the second step?
21           INMATE LAWRENCE:        Make amends.   And wh en

22   you make amends -- although when it hurts

23   somebody in making amends, you don‟t do that.

24   But to make amends to anyone that you‟ve harmed
25   and hurt.
26           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:          Well, it

27   (indiscernible) to make amends, but
                               81



 1   unfortunately, that‟s when somebody asks you of

 2   your shortcomings, but we‟re not here to test

 3   your memory.     (indiscernible) go back to see if

 4   this is something that‟s important to your life.

 5   Okay.   We‟re going to go into the summary now.

 6   District Attorney?
 7           DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNE Y MURRAY:   While

 8   the inmate is to be commended for her personal

 9   development -- she‟s done quite well while being

10   incarcerated -- she‟s become very education,

11   she‟s very articulate, presents herself very

12   well -- it‟s the people‟s position that she

13   still doesn‟t accept complete responsibility for

14   this murder.     She says she does accept

15   responsibility, but she says I could have been

16   the aggressor, therefore I will accept

17   responsibility.     I think she still doesn‟t

18   accept the fact of what she did, which was a

19   cold, calculated, pre -meditated murder.    She

20   continues to say she was in a range, that she

21   was young.     Twenty -four is a young adult, but

22   it‟s not that young.     I think 24 is an adult.

23   People know what they‟re doing when they‟re 24.

24   She claims that there was no violence from her.
25   She hadn‟t had any contact with Mr. and Mrs.

26   Williams in this case for multiple months.        She

27   allegedly says she broke off the relationship
                             82



 1   with Mr. Williams in November, but for some

 2   reason, three months later, she directs her rage

 3   who should not be the object of her rage.       She

 4   was upset with Mr. Williams because Mr. Williams

 5   led her to believe he was happy to have an

 6   affair with her, continue with her.     Mr.

 7   Williams chose Mrs. Williams over the inmate.

 8   The inmate became very angry o n that day, and

 9   instead of confronting Mr. Williams, who is a

10   person who has caused the rage in her, she goes

11   to an innocent victim who is unaware.     She

12   calls. She goes over to where the victim is by

13   herself.   She contacts the victim.    But she arms

14   herself.   She doesn‟t pick up two separate

15   weapons at the same location, she arms herself

16   with the stabbing weapon in her home, she

17   stopped on her way, picks up another gun.       It‟s

18   hidden, and it‟s not like it just appeared and

19   she said I‟ll take it, and there‟s no reason in

20   the world that she would need to arm herself

21   when she‟s going to confront Mrs. Williams since

22   there had been no prior violence.     She went over

23   there with an intent, and that was an intent to

24   get rid of Mrs. Williams, who was the obstacle
25   between her and Mr. Williams.   She would have

26   the Commissioner believe that when she got

27   there, she just wanted to talk to Mrs. Williams.
                                83



 1   That is hard to believe since the last thing

 2   that Mrs. Williams did (indiscernible) on the

 3   phone (indiscernible) while Mrs . Williams

 4   invited her into a location where Mrs. Williams

 5   was by herself.     That doesn‟t make any sense

 6   either.    And then Mrs. Williams was shot.       She

 7   had multiple injuries on her body.      And then

 8   after she was shot, she was stabbed.      This

 9   wasn‟t something that just happened in self -

10   defense. The inmate went over (indiscernible) of

11   Mrs. Williams, and this was a cold, calculated

12   murder.    Today she continues to tell you that

13   she was in a rage, she was young, and I think

14   what sums it up most is when she says tha t Mrs.

15   Williams was not her victim, that she was only

16   the object of her rage.      I don‟t understand

17   that.     I don‟t know what the inmate could mean

18   by that.     Clearly Mrs. Williams was the victim

19   of a cold, calculated, pre -meditated murder, and

20   this inmate is not accepting her role and her

21   responsibility in this murder, and because of

22   that, I believe that she poses any risk to

23   society at this time.      The people oppose her

24   parole.
25           PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:    Okay.

26   Thank you.     Counsel?
27           ATTORNEY HEMPEL:    We are here today
                               84



 1   because of a terrible and tragic that occurred

 2   34 years ago.     Sandra Davis -Lawrence cannot give

 3   back Ruby Williams her life, and no amount of

 4   time can change the circumstances of the

 5   commitment offense.     But she has learned from

 6   past mista kes.    And she‟s made a commitment to

 7   address the circumstances, feelings and

 8   motivations that led to her crime.       Sandra

 9   Davis-Lawrence was 23 -- 24 when she began an

10   affair with Dr. Williams, who said that he was

11   unhappy in his marriage.       When Ruby William s

12   found out, the three would discuss the affair

13   over the phone.     And Mrs. Williams would call

14   her repeatedly, leading to emotional threats

15   that Ms. Davis -Lawrence described.      Dr. Williams

16   promised to end the affair, but continued to see

17   Ms. Davis-Lawrence. Eventually the love triangle

18   overwhelmed her, and she attempted to avoid the

19   relationship by avoiding contact with Dr.

20   Williams.   However, Dr. Williams entered into

21   her life uninvited, made promises to her, and

22   she accepted him back.     However, later than even

23   -- or later -- a few hours later, he told her he

24   was leaving her again for his wife.       Ms. Davis -
25   Lawrence was frustrated, frantic, and also

26   deeply embarrassed and ashamed to face her

27   family, because once more she had made the
                             85



 1   mistake of taking him back again. Her hurt and

 2   her shame turned to anger and rage.      She

 3   confronted Mrs. Williams, argued with her, and

 4   eventually started to fight.    Ms. Davis -

 5   Lawrence‟s anger got the better of her.        Ms.

 6   Davis-Lawrence made a terrible mistake.        There‟s

 7   no denying that.   She acted irrationally. She

 8   fully recognizes how horribly that day.        She was

 9   a young woman caught in a situation and emotions

10   that she could no longer control.      She fled

11   after her crime because she could not come to

12   terms with what she had done.    But later she

13   willingly gave herself up to face the

14   consequences of her actions.    She has also paid

15   for her crime for 21 plus years incarceration at

16   CIW. Sandra Davis-Lawrence accepts full

17   responsibility for the actions and the pain she

18   has caused.   Over the y ears, she‟s

19   (indiscernible), doing psychotherapy and group

20   counseling sessions, and her counselor

21   acknowledges just how much remorse she has for

22   her past action, and how much she wishes she

23   could take them back.   Sandra Davis -Lawrence has

24   undertaken a tremendous amount of self -
25   exploration and growth while here at CIW.         She

26   recognizes that Mrs. Williams is a victim of a

27   former inability to control her feelings, anger,
                               86



 1   jealousy and rage.     Through group therapy, anger

 2   management courses, and her spiritual supp ort

 3   groups, she has learned how to deal rationally

 4   with anger, and understands how to think about

 5   the possible outcomes of her own behavior.          Ms.

 6   Davis-Lawrence‟s psychiatric evaluations speak

 7   for themselves.     The psychiatric report for the

 8   last 13 years has been positive and demonstrates

 9   that she has matured into a thoughtful,

10   insightful woman who understands the factors

11   that led to her crime.     She‟s been described in

12   her past psychological reports as having

13   brilliant insight into the causative factors of

14   her crime.     She presents no danger to society.

15   Moreover, her post -victim records show that she

16   can control her behavior.      She has never

17   received a 115 during her entire time at CIW.

18   Her post-conviction progress involves much more

19   than merely just staying out of trouble.       In

20   fact, she stepped out of her way to help others.

21   She has tutored inmates to help them get their

22   GEDs. She has inspired and motivated women as a

23   physical trainer, gaining the respect,

24   admiration and appreciation of her peers and
25   supervisors.     And furthermore, she‟s earned her

26   Bachelor‟s degree and her MBA while at CIW.

27   Through all these activities, Ms. Davis -Lawrence
                               87



 1   formed stable and positive relationships with

 2   others.   She‟s impressed supervisors, endeared

 3   herself to fellow inmates, and formed

 4   relationships with two different supervisors

 5   outside of CIW‟s walls.    Sister Mary

 6   (indiscernible) Autrey described her as a woman

 7   of extraordinary character who teaches, inspires

 8   and motivates the women at CIW.     She has formed

 9   a personal connect ion with the Bishop of the

10   Diocese of San Bernardino, and he writes of the

11   many accomplishments at CIW.     (indiscernible)

12   officers here (indiscernible) is a kind,

13   motivational team player, who is a positive

14   asset to the community.    She has also been close

15   to her very large family throughout her

16   incarceration, who enthusiastically support her,

17   even going so far to circulate a petition

18   declaring their support for her, signed by over

19   70 family members and friends.     If paroled, Ms.

20   Davis-Lawrence (indiscernible) for success.        She

21   leaves CIW with a newly earned MBA, a letter of

22   intent to hire from the Press Enterprise, an

23   offer for housing from Crossroads, who will also

24   assist her in her employment search, support
25   from the Archdiocese of Los Angeles Partnership

26   for Reentry program, a large family and

27   spiritual support system, and numerous other
                                 88



 1   contacts and supporters.         Ms. Davis -Lawrence is

 2   realistic and understands that readjustment will

 3   not be easy.     But she has the motivation, skills

 4   and strength -- emotional strength to succeed.

 5   She has an extensive support network that will

 6   be there for her spiritually, emotionally and

 7   financially.     And she knows that she will not

 8   face the world alone.       Sandra Davis -Lawrence has

 9   served enough time for her crime, and she would

10   not present a danger to society if released.

11   This Board found Ms. Davis -Lawrence suitable for

12   parole in 2004, and I respectfully ask this

13   panel to again recognize the incredible

14   emotional growth and accomplishments of Ms.

15   Davis-Lawrence, and find her sui table for parole

16   today.    Thank you.
17            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:        Thank

18   you very much.     We‟ll go to recess now.      I‟m

19   very sorry.     Ms. Lawrence -- your opportunity to

20   tell us why you are suitable for parole.
21            INMATE LAWRENCE:        I think my lawyer said

22   it all.
23            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:       That‟s

24   fine.     I want you to know that you still have an
25   opportunity if you wish to speak.
26            INMATE LAWRENCE:    I think a lot has been

27   said today, and I feel that I‟m suitable because
                               89



 1   I‟ve worked to become suitable.       I ‟ve worked

 2   very hard.    I‟m not trying to minimize what I

 3   did 34 years ago in any way.       But I‟m not that

 4   person.    And if I‟m being judged for being that

 5   person today, then all of this was in vain.          I

 6   can‟t bring Ruby back.      I‟m sorry.   I‟m so sorry

 7   that I can‟t.     But I can‟t.   All I could do is

 8   live to be the woman in the memory of Ruby --

 9   just be a person of esteem and integrity in her

10   -- in her memory and in her honor.       And that‟s

11   all I‟ve been working 21 years to become.         And I

12   think that you‟ve seen some of that, you know.

13   This is my personal plight.      This has been my

14   goal, and I‟m on the way to achieving my goal.

15   And again, I‟m sorry -- and I‟m truly sorry for

16   what I‟ve done.    I mean, who would want to live

17   like this?    You know, if I could take it back , I

18   would.    But I think I‟ve been on the right path,

19   and I‟ll continue to work towards continuing my

20   rehabilitation no matter what happens here

21   today.
22            PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:     Okay.

23   Thank you very much.     And I apologize for

24   leaving (indiscernible) .      I‟m glad Mr. May
25   brought it to my attention.
26                        R E C E S S

27                          --oOo--
                                 90



 1               CALIFORNIA BOARD OF PAROLE HEARINGS

 2                         D E C I S I O N

 3             PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:   It is ten to

 4   12:00.    All the parties -- excuse me -- 11:12.    All

 5   the parties that were here when we went into recess

 6   have returned in this regard.    This is in the matter

 7   of Sandra Lawrence, L-A-W-R-E-N-C-E, CDC No. W-19366.

 8   The panel reviewed all information received from the

 9   public in relying on the following circumstances in

10   concluding that the prisoner is suitable for parole

11   and would not pose an unreasonable risk of danger to

12   society or a threat to public safety if released from

13   prison.    The prisoner has no juvenile record of

14   assaulting others.    While in prison, she was

15   (indiscernible) to functioning within the law upon

16   release through the participation of educational

17   programs, and in this regard she recently completed

18   her Masters of Business Administration, many self-help

19   programs, vocational programs, institutional job

20   assignments and leadership responsibility in positions

21   within the prison.    The commitment of the crime was as

22   the result of stress and life, was spurned by a lover

23   in favor of his wife, lack of a significant history of

24   violent crime prior to the instant offense, because of
25   maturation, growth, greater understanding and

26   advancing age, has reduced the probability of a
27   SANDRA LAWRENCE W-19366 DECISION PAGE 1            8/25/05
                                    91



 1   (indiscernible).    I can (indiscernible) of advancing

 2   age, because I‟m there also.
 3             INMATE LAWRENCE:     I‟m glad to be here.

 4             PRESIDING COMMISSIONER INGLEE:     She has

 5   realistic parole plans, which includes a job offer and

 6   family support, has maintained close family ties while

 7   in prison through letters and visits, has maintained

 8   positive institutional behavior which indicates proven

 9   self-control, no 115s in 21 years of incarceration.

10   She shows signs of remorse. She indicates that she

11   understands the nature and magnitude of the offense,

12   and accepts responsibility for her criminal behavior

13   and has decided to change towards good citizenship.

14   As other information in this regard, (indiscernible)

15   as she completed both her undergraduate and Masters

16   degree in Business Administration while in prison. The

17   psychiatric report dated 6/13/95 by Robert Smith, M.D.

18   is at best inconclusive, and appears to be just a

19   general psychological discussion of the inmate, and

20   that I read a discussion of the ACR 20 risk assessment

21   rating system test.    Therefore, I‟m going to refer

22   that to the psychological report of April the 5th,

23   2004, Peter Hugh, M.D.       In that regard, he is

24   supportive.    In his April 2004 assessment, Dr. Hugh
25   states:

26   //
27   SANDRA LAWRENCE W-19366 DECISION PAGE 2              8/25/05
                                92



 1         “The inmate has not demonstrated

 2         herself to be dangerous within a

 3         controlled setting.       I concur with

 4         the opinion of Dr. McDaniel as she

 5         has demonstrated a tremendous

 6         understanding of her early life and

 7         result, and the sequence and events

 8         that led up to this incarceration.        I

 9         believe that with passage of time and

10         years and maturity, and her current

11         level of (indiscernible) potential

12         for risk would be greatly decreased.

13         She has been able to look at her past

14         relationships, understands the type

15         of predatory and pathological men

16         that she has been associated with.

17         Ms. Lawrence is now able to look at

18         her behavior and formulate a number

19         of different options in order to

20         avoid conflict and violence in other

21         settings and situations.       She has

22         shown motivation to improving

23         herself, not only through vocational

24         pursuits, but also through self-
25         initiated efforts.    I believe that

26         Ms. Lawrence has the resources
27   SANDRA LAWRENCE W-19366 DECISION PAGE 3             8/25/05
                                 93



 1          necessary to become a productive

 2          member of society.    She has learned

 3          to look at motivations behind her

 4          behavior and to assess each situation

 5          more realistically, and to make

 6          informed and thoughtful

 7          decisions.   I believe she would

 8          be able to maintain a strict

 9          adherence to rules and

10          regulations that govern our

11          society should she be granted an

12          opportunity for parole.”

13   In regard to the setting of terms, we now go to

14   the basic terms of compliment .      The basic life

15   offense for what‟s occurred is first degree

16   murder.   That is 187 of the Penal Code.       The

17   offense occurred on February the 15 t h , 1971.

18   The term is July from the matrix located in the

19   CC&R title 15 at 2282[b], first degree murder.

20   The offense committed on or before 11/7 of 1978.

21   The panel finds the category IIIC is

22   appropriate.   Death resulted from severe trauma

23   inflicted with (indiscernible).        The victim was

24   stabbed and shot with a firearm three or four
25   times, and that the inmate had lit tle or no

26   relationship with this victim prior to the
27   SANDRA LAWRENCE W-19366 DECISION PAGE 4        8/25/05
                              94



 1   actual death, other than telephone and letter

 2   communications.    The panel assessed 192 months

 3   as the base offense, and knows that this is the

 4   middle term.   The panel for the base term gave

 5   192 months, and there is a 124 -month enhancement

 6   for the use of firearms, for the total term

 7   calculated at 216 months.     Post -conviction

 8   factors credit from trial date of 1983 to

 9   today‟s date, 8/25, 2005, is a total of 86

10   months.   No time was taken off because the

11   prisoner had no 115 disciplinary actions.        So

12   the total period of confinement is 130 months.

13   We will now go over to the special conditions of

14   parole.   Before I do so, I‟d like to say that

15   there is -- in our discu ssions, there does not

16   appear to be a lot of discussion of your alcohol

17   and drug experimentation.     In fact, you were

18   somewhat (indiscernible).     Before I read this, I

19   want to let you know that this is still a

20   concern of ours.    It will, as you will find out

21   quickly, no sooner than you finish out this

22   parole process, and your life in the world.

23   It‟s not a heck of a lot better. In fact, in

24   some cases, it may be a little worse when it
25   comes to access to drugs and alcohol.     And

26   therefore, because of your age and maturity and
27   SANDRA LAWRENCE W-19366 DECISION PAGE 5      8/25/05
                               95



 1   understanding, and everything you‟ve done here,

 2   there‟s going to be a lot things that will come

 3   and hit you fast and furiously.       Therefore, I‟m

 4   going to set some guidelines for you.       Even

 5   though you had (indiscernible) necessary all

 6   that was mentioned to why you were in prison, I

 7   think it should be of real interest to you when

 8   you get out there.    In this regard, during your

 9   parole period, you will not use alcoholic

10   beverages under any condition .      You will submit

11   to alcohol testing whenever required.       You will

12   submit narcotic testing whenever required.          You

13   will submit to THC testing whenever required.

14   You will participate in substance abuse

15   programs, such as AA or NA. We don‟t tell you

16   which one to do.     That is a recommendation.       And

17   therefore, you and your parole officer can

18   discuss what type of program suits you best.             AA

19   or NA are goal centered.       Most other programs of

20   this sort tend to look at these programs.          And

21   of course, you‟ll attend pa role outpatient

22   clinics.   You need to take this very seriously.

23   Because you‟ve been up for parole a couple times

24   now, (indiscernible).    And I want to tell you
25   that Mr. May and I had a lot of discussion of

26   what you would do in this regard.       And we came
27   SANDRA LAWRENCE W-19366 DECISION PAGE 6       8/25/05
                               96



 1   to this conclusion, and we think it‟s a good

 2   decision.   And we wish you a great deal of luck

 3   and success in this process that you go through.

 4   As you know, you still have a few months to go.

 5   So you don‟t want a 115.       Certainly don‟t get a

 6   115 any time soon.   With that, Mr. May, any

 7   comments?
 8         DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:        Thank you.

 9         INMATE LAWRENCE:         Thank you very much,

10   Mr. May.
11         DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAY:        You‟re the

12   first person since I‟ve been here this has been

13   (indiscernible) thanks.    We are now in recess.

14   This is hearing is over.       It is now 11:20.
15                        --oOo--

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23   PAROLE GRANTED.

24   THIS DECISION WILL BE FINAL ON Dec. 23, 2005
25   YOU WILL BE PROMPTLY NOTIFIED, IF PRIOR TO THAT

26   DATE, THE DECISION IS MODIFIED.

27   SANDRA LAWRENCE W-19366 DECISION PAGE 7       8/25/05
                           97



                    CERTIFICATE AND
              DECLARATION OF TRANSCRIBER



       I, ELIZABETH SCOTT, a duly designated

transcriber, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING, do hereby

declare and certify under penalty of perjury that I

have transcribed tape(s) which total two in number and

cover a total of pages numbered 1 - 96, and which

recording was duly recorded at CALIFORNIA INSTITUTION

FOR WOMEN, FRONTERA CALIFORNIA, in the matter of the

SUBSEQUENT PAROLE CONSIDERATION HEARING OF SANDRA

LAWRENCE, CDC NO. W-19366 ON AUGUST 25, 2005, and that

the foregoing pages constitute a true, complete, and

accurate transcription of the aforementioned tapes to

the best of my ability.

       I hereby certify that I am a disinterested

party in the above-mentioned matter and have no

interest in the outcome of the hearing.

       Dated SEPTEMBER 11, 2005, at Folsom,

California.




                          ELIZABETH SCOTT
                          TRANSCRIBER
                          PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING

				
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