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					14 March 2000                                    Page 1 of 346

                     TUESDAY, 14 MARCH 2000




The House met at 09:38.

The Chairperson of Committees took the Chair and requested

members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or




                       APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 8 - Education:

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Mr Chairperson, hon members and

comrades, it is an honour to initiate the debate on the

first Vote of this Parliament. I invite hon members, in

particular, to recognise the presence in the gallery of the

provincial MECs for Education, accompanied by their heads
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of departments. [Applause.] They are here at my invitation

to witness this important debate and to convene afterwards

for the special meeting of the Council of Education

Ministers this afternoon. I thank them for their presence.

A Budget debate ought to be the most elevated exchange of

opinions on the important issues of the day. A debate on a

Vote offers a great opportunity for us to contemplate what

education in our new democracy is for and what it is not


So this is a good time to ask the question: Why vote public

funds for education services? Some might say: ``Well, why

not? Is that not what Parliaments are supposed to do?''

Others might say: ``That is a good question. The education

system is so riddled with problems and inefficiencies that

we should not throw good money after bad.'' Yet others

might say: ``Governments cannot manage education services.

They should be left to the private sector; they will sort

them out.''

There is something to be said for the first two responses

but very little to be said for the third. But all three

responses challenge us to think more carefully about a

matter that may seem so obvious that it is taken for
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I will not recapitulate the story of our efforts to reshape

and reform our education system over the past six years.

That has been done in my department's 1999 annual report,

which has been distributed to all hon members. The report

provides a comprehensive record of our stewardship of the

funds voted by Parliament in 1998-99 and a retrospective

account of the transformation of education during the first

democratic administration, whose term of office ended in

mid-year. It gives a full account of the setting of new

priorities for the next five years under the banner of

Tirisano and particularly our implementation plan.

We ought, therefore, to look at the fundamentals of

educational policy. I should like to begin the debate today

by quoting one of this country's great teachers. She wrote:

 A flock without lambs is doomed. A herd without calves

 has no future. A people whose children are doomed to

 ignorance has no future. It is our children who are

 condemned to a world of darkness and ignorance, who will

 never fit in anywhere in the world after being shut away

 from the rest of humanity. If we all realise that, we
14 March 2000                                  Page 4 of 346

 cannot, no matter what the odds, stand idly by and let

 that happen. Where are the mothers in this hall who will

 say: ``Never! Not to my child!'' Where are the women of

 this nation who will say: ``Never! Not to my children?''

 Have we less courage than the mother hen that will dare

 the falcon that swoops down on her young? I do not think


The teacher's name was Phyllis Ntantala Jordan, and her son

sits with us, in this House. This memorable speech was

given in December 1953, and it was a call to arms against

Bantu Education. Much has changed since then, but the

essence of what she said still resonates across time and

space with special meaning.

Mr Chairperson, members of this House, parents, teachers,

and learners of this nation, while the Budget is a key

policy instrument, it is human beings who make it

meaningful, and its outcomes are about people. For this

reason, I want to talk today about our mothers and fathers

and our inherited responsibility, and our commitment to

public education and the development of our country. When

we say that people are at the centre of development, we do

not refer to some nebulous or vague group, but to actual
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human beings, to arents, learners, students and teachers

who are directly affected.

Phyllis Ntantala's book A Life's Mosaic is a case study of

human endeavour and partnerships. It recounts her

observations as a little girl growing up in the old

Transkei. It tells of how the community regarded the school

within their midst as their responsibility. Although among

the poorest of the poor, they helped the missionary build

it, they taxed themselves to buy building materials, they

ploughed the teacher's fields for him - it usually was a

him then - and they made sure his pantry was never empty.

The father of another in our midst tells the story about

how he literally had to climb a five-mile-high mountain

every day of his school life - even if he was hungry, which

was often; even if it was raining, which was often; and

miserable - to get from his home on the banks of the Tsomo

River to the nearest school. That man was Govan Mbeki and

his son is our President. He did it without fail and earned

himself two university degrees by the time he was 30.

And the father of yet another who sits in the House became

the very first African in this country of ours to register

at a university in South Africa, and the very first African
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to gain a university degree in South Africa. His name was

Prof Z K Matthews. He became a hero and a role model to

generations of South Africans, because he showed that with

diligence and perseverance, even with all the odds stacked

against him, he could do it. He could make it.

In the 1950s, on the eve of the imposition of Bantu

Education, Prof Matthews looked at his 18 grandchildren -

one of whom is now the Chairperson of the NCOP - and he


 Surely in their lifetime, they will see these remaining

 barriers surmounted. I think of this as I hear again in

 my memory the words I heard so often from my parents:

 `Education was the weapon with which the white man had

 conquered our people and taken our lands.' `It was often

 thought', my father would say, `that the white man had

 conquered because he had superior weapons, guns.' `No',

 he would insist, `the real reason for our defeat was the

 white man's education and the black man's lack of it.'

 Only by mastering the secrets of his knowledge would we

 ever be able to regain our strength and face the

 conqueror on his own terms.
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Now times have changed since Prof Matthews wrote that. We

no longer see ourselves as conquerors and the conquered. We

no longer see education as the white man's preserve, as

something we have to learn if we are to beat him.

I am sure that every member of this House can recollect a

time when public provision of education to the majority of

the citizens was bitterly contested. ``We shall open the

doors of learning to all'', was one of the most heartfelt

pledges of the Freedom Charter. No government of a

democratic South Africa can be exonerated from the burden

of making good on that promise. Prof Matthews, Phyllis

Ntantala and Govan Mbeki have taught us that knowledge has

no colour, race or language.

So how did our education system evolve? The idea that

governments have responsibility for public education came

rather late in the development of modern nation states. The

global pattern of the modern nation state has its origin in

Europe, and then America. In those countries, across most

of the centuries, in the millennium which has just ended,

formal education, as we know it today, was a privilege of

aristocrats and well-to-do merchants. The religious

authorities were employed to undertake the teaching of the

rich and the powerful. Charity schools were set for the
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schooling of the poor. So education mirrored the social

divisions of the feudal and the early capitalist classes.

The notion that the state has the responsibility to provide

for the education of its citizens has several different

strands, and not all of them are attractive or wholesome.

So allow me to briefly to deal with three of them.

Firstly, in the late 19th century the modernising

imperialist state - of which Prussia and then Germany were

the models - saw public education as a tool for state

building. They wanted common schools to generate sentiments

of patriotism and national identity across the German-

speaking peoples of Europe. They wanted an army of soldiers

who could understand their orders and use its new

technology of war, and skilled workers for the growing


Secondly, at the same time, in the robust young United

States of America, newly united and rapidly industrialising

after the civil war, the idea was propagated that public

education was a seedbed of democratic liberties. Every

citizen had the right to go to school. Thus, a nation of

immigrants would become loyal Americans under one flag, and
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a nation of many states spread across a continent would

imbibe a common set of symbols and values. Of course, every

one of these sentiments in the United States of America was

traduced and betrayed by the slavery tradition and the

successful march of desegregation from the south into the

American heartland, under which a black was only three

fifths of a man until the civil rights movement exploded on

the scene in the 1950s and 1960s.

A third model of public education was born after the

Russian revolution. In Marxist-Leninist thought public

education would be the vehicle to advance the message of

social equality. Soviet education created a new socialist

consciousness in the minds of all its citizens, starting in

infancy. Class subservience and religious obscurantism

would be challenged and overcome o the ideological


All three traditions were founded on the belief that public

education should be universally available, compulsory for

all citizens, organised and funded by the state. All three

traditions infused public education with a patriotic

mission to advance the manifest destiny of their peoples,

in their countries and the world. So all three traditions
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had export models devised by enthusiastic emulators in

other countries or spread by conquest.

Let us acknowledge then, that the birth of public education

systems as we know them coincided with the birth of nation

states in the modern era. Public education was seen as an

indispensable adjunct of state-building and nation-

building. It was enrolled in the service of a dominant

state ideology, whether authoritarian, libertarian, or a

complex fusion of both. In other words we are reminded that

public education is a vessel into which social values may

be poured - a vehicle to be steered in the public interest,

however this is conceived.

So let us not romanticise public education as self-evident

good. Nothing in public affairs is self-evident. The social

purpose it serves and the integrity with which it is

executed must validate every action of state. This is

especially the case with public education systems, because

they reach everyone and they traffic in knowledge, values

and ideas.

So without doubt, the world we live in has been fashioned

by the worldwide influence of public education system. It
14 March 2000                                 Page 11 of 346

has created the indispensable foundation of modern states,

democratised knowledge, opened up advanced learning to

countless millions and provided the intellectual sinews for

the development of modern technology and communication in a

fast globalising world. We know only too well about the

havoc that the apartheid rulers unleashed on the education

system and everyone in it, and the effect of much of the

active and passive resistance to apartheid authority in


I want to draw attention to the fact that before 1994, the

fundamental aims of public education in South Africa had

never been formulated with the welfare of all South

Africans in mind. Such aims can only emanate from a

government and a parliament that command the consent of the

people of South Africa. Out of a racially fragmented

society, we have had to create a nonracial and a democratic

system. So the challenge is to build a system for a

democratic society.

All our people shared in the historic compromise of 1994.

This has given us - in Government, Parliament, civil

society and education institutions throughout the country -

an exceptional opportunity to think through the purpose of
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public education in a democratic South Africa. To meet this

challenge - the challenge of living in the 21st century -

let us give our children real hope as the only way of

advancing education. I began by saying: Let us give our

children real hope by ensuring the success of active

learning through properly organised outcomes-based

education and move away from the highly authoritarian,

rigid, curriculum-driven system.

Members are aware that I have convened a strong team of

experts to review our implementation of outcomes-based

education, namely Curriculum 2005. But I remain convinced,

as do all the teachers I have spoken to, in the potential

of outcomes-based education, if it is implemented

successfully. Why is this? Perhaps I can answer by quoting

once more from Prof Matthews' speech he made as Cape

president of the ANC in 1955. He said: ``Independent

thinking has always been regarded by rulers as a dangerous

thing.'' My mother used to say that to me too.

``Independent thinking has always been regarded by rulers

as a dangerous thing to encourage among the common

people,'' Prof Matthews said.

Now, in the present, it is time for all of us who have a
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genuine interest in the education of our nation to stand up

and be counted. The future of our flock and our herd is in

our hands. We are all parents, we are all teachers, we have

all been students and the reality may be bleak. We have a

democracy with an extraordinary Bill of Rights and a

Constitution which protects and enhances the right to basic

education. We have formal equality, but many of our

children remain doomed to ignorance of one kind or another.

Now, what is the remedy?

The Government blames the teachers, the teachers blame the

parents, the parents blame the students, the students blame

the Government and in the end, instead of working it out,

everyone gives up and goes off to a shebeen - as my

colleague the hon MEC for Education in Gauteng recently

discovered to his horror in Tembisa - and drink themselves

into oblivion. Those children were not drinking and dancing

during school hours because they are evil, bad or stupid.

They were doing it because even if they do not admit it,

they have given up hope. If we, the principal actors in the

education system, have one goal that bonds us, or must bond

us, and unites us in everything that we do, it is to give

hope to our children. We must equip our children with the

skills to think critically and independently, for this will
14 March 2000                                 Page 14 of 346

help them to be productive members of society as much as

will the fundamentals of reading, writing and arithmetic.

In this democratic South Africa of ours, unlike in the

South Africa in which Prof Matthews had to live, the rulers

are the people. We are their representatives, and we have

nothing to fear from independent thinking. We know that it

makes our people and our country stronger.

We cannot solve all the enormous challenges that we face,

overnight, nor over the past five years, nor over the next

five years, but all of us, institutions, administrators,

and policy makers, owe it to our country that we hold out

hope to this generation and those to come. Therefore I want

to enunciate a statement of the scope and purpose of public

education in our country that I trust will command wide


South Africans are in the process of creating a new nation,

a truly inclusive South African nation. In this nation of

diverse peoples and traditions, South Africans are learning

to trust one another, to revel in the brilliance of our

diversity, and to honour every strand of our cultural and

linguistic identity and recognise its contribution to the
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strength and the vitality of the whole.

We are on guard against the persistence of throwback

behaviour from the dark past, in particular racial

arrogance and hard-necked linguistic and cultural

exclusivity. Public education has a vital role in the

building of this South African nation. So, in the first

place, public education must serve the needs of the

overwhelming majority of South Africans.

The prerequisite of success here is that the public

education system must be accessible to all. If facilities

are not available close to where people live or if, despite

what the law says, high fees deter people from entering

public facilities, then we have problems that need remedy.

However, I do not believe that the answer lies with a

Thatcherite-type voucher system, as advocated by some,

since our commitment must be to our education system as a

whole, and there must be no cherry picking of developing

the so-called better schools and the devil take the


Secondly, public education must embrace South Africans of

all races, classes, religions and languages.
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Nondiscriminatory admission is one thing, but actively

creating a new inclusive model school, college, technikon

or university is another. The prerequisite of success here

is for public education institutions to examine their

inherited institutional cultures, consider their new

responsibilities, and be prepared to ditch old baggage and

respond creatively to the changed circumstances.

Thirdly, the public education system must command public

confidence. If public education is not delivering the level

of service that people require, they will go elsewhere, as

we know. Private providers of all varieties are ready to

exploit any perceived gap left by inadequate public

provision. Nevertheless, registered private providers have

a constitutional right to exist, but the duty of nation-

building rests on public institutions and a public system

of provision. If they fail in their education function,

they fail utterly also as nation-builders. What is more, as

soon as the public system fails to represent the South

African people at large, its capacity for beneficial

influence on the civic values and virtues of our new nation

will be severely diminished.

I have referred to civic values and nation-building. The
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public education system is not a simple vehicle for the

transmission of knowledge which, regrettably, is fairly

extensive, and still less for the passing of examinations,

however important these may be, but its main purpose is the

transmission of facts. In our highly competitive society we

have an obsessive interest in simply the passing of


It is the social institution through which the principal

values of our new nation and the key to our identity as

South Africans are conveyed to successive generations of

learners and students. Therefore this matter is so

important that I recently invited Prof Wilmot James, the

Dean of Humanities at the University of Cape Town, to lead

an expert team in the investigation of values in South

African education. I expect to receive their report at the

end of this month. I will make it public at once and

invite, particularly in this House, an active debate on its


The remedy must be worked out. It is easy to find

scapegoats. We must resist this temptation to find

scapegoats. We must simply do more and identify the fault

lines and the cracks. Let us give our children hope by
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restoring the status of teachers in our society to what it

was before. Let us challenge our teachers to earn such a

status so that our children can look up to them the way we

looked up to Prof Matthews and Phyllis Ntantala.

For example, we have here, possibly in this House, a young

student, Delisile Mdleleni, from the Orange Farm informal

settlement in Gauteng, now studying for a degree in

information technology at the University of the Western

Cape who, against considerable odds and through skipping

through classes at school, obtained a matriculation

exemption last year at the age of 15 years. So, we do have

victories, victories over the enormous adversity of

illiteracy, lack of jobs for parents and living in one of

the largest squatter camps in South Africa. She comes

through those ashes and matriculates at the age of 15.

[Applause.] Her example gives our children hope and her

achievement must acknowledge the devoted activity of

teachers and the community.

Our focus on teacher development will be guided by the

recently published norms and standards for educators and by

the evolving role of principals and managers in our

schools, because we must reinstate the role of principals
14 March 2000                                  Page 19 of 346

and managers in our schools.   We are committed to improved

and increased teacher development, school and financial

management, and quality enhancement, some of which will be

funded out of the policy reserve fund of R272 million, set

aside by the Minister of Finance in his Budget for this


Let us give our children hope by creating a further

education and training system that will equip them to meet

the social and economic needs of the 21st century. This

year we will introduce legislation to further integrate the

further education and training system into our overall

framework. In this respect we should not forget the

contribution of the Business Trust in helping to do this

with a R120 million assistance programme within an almost

hidden area of education - the technical colleges.

Let us be honest. Nothing gives our children more hope than

an education system which provides the prospect of jobs and

a productive life, if they go through school successfully

that is, and they will spend more time in the classroom and

less in the shebeen. Let us give our children hope by

making our provincial delivery systems work. There are

enormous competing interests for national funds, but
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education has been identified as a priority by our

Government, and, for that reason, 21% of the national

Budget, R3 billion more than last year, will be spent on

education, nearly 80% of it in the provinces. Therefore we

must support the provinces in whatever ways we can.

However, Vote 8 contains no funds to support provincial

education systems other than conditional grants to assist

provincial education departments to carry forward

innovative work in capacity-building and quality

improvement. The bulk of education spending, of course, is

not overseen by this Parliament but by the nine provincial

legislatures which will make appropriations out of the

funds voted to them in the block grant to provinces.

Therefore, there is a disjunction, often noted in this

House, between the political responsibility of the Minister

of Education for the state of education throughout the

country, and the fact that the Minister does not control,

or even influence, provincial allocations for education. I

am, therefore, closing this gap, not with a constitutional

amendment, but with a vigorous interpretation of the

constitutional doctrine of co-operative governance.
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The Council of Education Ministers, which I said will meet

later today in extraordinary session, is a vital organ for

the execution of the national agenda in education. The nine

MECs for Education and I are forging an excellent working

relationship based on our national common programme of

action, Tirisano, backed by the provincial plans.

At our meeting today, we will give careful consideration to

proposals by the Financial and Fiscal Commission, that will

address some of the worrying features of the present

allocation of provincial education funds. The FFC proposal

presents a hopeful development which, I trust, will bring

relief and hope to our largely rural provinces.

We have made headway in reducing the inherited financial

disparities among provinces in the provision of education.

The new FFC proposals should help us take forward that

goal. What concerns me just as much is the persistence of

inequality in education provision within provinces. I give

notice that I intend to investigate the matter with my

provincial colleagues as a priority in the year 2000.

Let us give hope to our children by making schools the

centres of community life once more, as they were when
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Phyllis Ntantala was a child. I will give hon members an

example of this. A simple example of this is the way we are

trying to work in the Government, together. We are working

together with other Government departments to make the

schools the centre. We are working with the SA Police

Service, with the Minister of Safety and Security and, now

recently, with the Minister and the Department of Sport and

Recreation, to co-ordinate other activities at school level

around sport and physical education - nowadays known, to

use one of the new buzzwords, as human movement studies.

School sport is, regrettably, largely, absent from the vast

majority of our schools. We intend to bring it back. The

experience of other countries has shown that school

sporting activities lead to high-performance, competitive

sport. There is a direct relationship between school-sport

activities and competitive sport and, therefore, we are

going to be part of this. Although school sport is for fun,

we are also for competitive sport. Today I want to commit

my department and this House to supporting the proud bid to

host the World Cup 2006 soccer tournament in South Africa.


I think soccer is not only the national sport, but it
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represents for the large part of our young people, the

greatest aspiration to perform not only for the school or

the province, not only for the country, but for the people.

Therefore, it is enormously important that South Africa

should be the site of this most important contest after the

Olympic Games that we know.

So I say, therefore, that we should give our children hope

also by ending the conditions of physical degradation in

South African schools. Many of our rural schools have no

sports grounds, no sports facilities of any kind. One

cannot learn - and I think that this House should recognise

this - in the state of physical degradation in which many

of our schools are, especially those in the rural areas.

We can learn and teach with dignity. And I am saying now

that, of course, we will be making claims for the

reconstruction, renewal and rebuilding of many of our

schools. We are expecting that more than R500 million will

be spent by the provinces in the coming year on school

refurbishment, although, as the President has indicated,

our funds are not inexhaustible. So we need to plan and

spend wisely. At this point I should add my thanks to the

Minister of Finance for extending tax concessions to those
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who donate money for public preprimary, primary and

secondary schools. This should be very much part of the

reconstruction of the schools.

So too with our higher education system. Let us give our

children hope by implementing a higher education system

that grasps the intellectual and professional challenges

facing South Africans in the 21st century. The higher

educational sector is in the process of undergoing a

process of root-and-branch transformation. The

institutional framework is in place for implementing major

changes. The new programme-based funding system envisaged

by the Higher Education Act of 1997 will be phased in over

the next few years after careful preparation including the

implementation of the new higher education management

information system.

The total allocation to higher education in the past three

years has increased by over R1,6 billion to R7 billion,

which is 93% of the total allocation for Vote 8 for this

department - an amount which constitutes 14% of the

education budget and which compares favourably with even

OECD norms and countries, and the OECD countries are the

top 25 countries in the world in terms of economic
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development. This allocation includes an increase of over

R15 million for the National Student Financial Aid Scheme.

We are the first country in Africa to spend over R450

million this year on a financial aid scheme. Since 1994

almost R1,7 billion has been allocated by the fiscus to

student financial aid.

By June the Council on Higher Education will present me

with a report on the future size and shape of the higher

education system. This is a long-awaited event. I am

pleased that the chairperson and the chief executive are

here with us. I am confident that this report will help us

to close the long and miserable chapter of apartheid-

education planning that began 40 years ago. The Council on

Higher Education report will set the scene for major

structural changes in higher education, and I expect to

take to Cabinet my proposal on those changes very soon

after receiving the report.

However, let me say that we want some stability in our

higher education system. How can one explain a trade union

taking industrial action last week, because they did not

like the principal of that particular institution? How can

one explain students corralling a vice chancellor and
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kidnapping him the other day? There is no explanation which

is explicable or understandable in a democratic order.

Let me say quite clearly here: With all the authority that

this Parliament will give me, I will not countenance

behaviour of this type. We will expect value for money from

our higher education system - real value for money.

[Applause.] It must be made quite clear that here there is

no time for these intellectual freeloaders in our society.

They must be fully aware of this, because higher education

is enormously expensive and we must bring it to larger and

larger numbers of people. There is no free ride anymore.

Let us give our hope to the rural youngster who want to go

to higher education. We want to give hope to our children

with special needs, of whom there are nearly a quarter of a

million in our country. We have an emerging White Paper to

cater for education for learners with special needs. That

is not to suggest that we need to develop two separate

school systems as we have had up to now. We need an

integrated single system with special sensitivity and

provision for those students who require it.

Let us also give hope to our preschool children and their
14 March 2000                                 Page 27 of 346

parents through our early childhood development

initiatives. We have to grapple with our commitment to 10

years of compulsory education, which includes the reception

or Grade O level. We shall be looking to innovative and

creative ways and solutions to address our needs in this

area, with the hope that within the next few weeks the

Minister for Welfare and Population Development and I will

be able to make proposals as to how we will meet our basic

obligation to the Grade O students.

Let us give our children hope, finally, by dealing urgently

and purposefully with the HIV/Aids emergency in and through

the education and training system. We should also recognise

that there are enormous problems of values that our

children are facing in our schools through precocious and

early sexual activity, across classes, across races and

regardless of region. We cannot be unaware of the

implications of precocious sexual activity and the

possibility of HIV/Aids.

I would like to thank everybody here: the House, for its

interest in education, and those who - through their hard

work and effort - have contributed to a renewed commitment

to making a success of education. There is no doubt that
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there is a new tone, a new atmosphere, a fresh wind blowing

across education today. The last year has been one which

has presented great demands on my department, with a new

management style and the appointment of a new director-

general, Mr Thami Mseleku, who has pushed our staff to work

even harder. Of course, we would expect our Public Service

to rise to even greater heights in search of more

efficient, more sensitive and more responsive governance,

although I should add that there are those who are already

there who more than fulfil that commitment. I am going to

say how they fulfil it.

Ten days ago I visited a school in Atlantis, a very

deprived area of the Western Cape. I was pleased to see

teachers in their classrooms at 17:00, preparing for a

parents meeting at 19:00. This is, in fact, a successful,

working school. So we must also recognise that there are

public servants who are, in fact, more than meeting their

norms. We need to celebrate our teachers, our doers as


I would like to thank the Deputy Minister, Father

Smangaliso Mkhatshwa, and all the staff of the department,

particularly Dr Trevor Coombe, who will be retiring later
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this year, especially for his contribution to the education

policy debate in the pre-1994 period and, more importantly,

for taking that debate into Government after 1994.

[Applause.] He has been a source of many ideas, much

inspiration and much-valued policy analysis over the past

six years.

I also want to thank the Chairperson of the Portfolio

Committee on Education, Prof Mayatula, a good shepherd of

the committee, because the portfolio committee and the

chairperson have been very much part of the renewal of the

education system in the past six or seven months.

The response of the business community, particularly

through the Business Trust, and other significant

individual support systems, has been of enormous assistance

to the department. International development co-operation

and assistance from donor governments and agencies has

been, and continues to be, a resource of considerable

value. These meet our niche needs in the country.

There have also been many members of the public who have

helped in a voluntary capacity, because we must now rebuild

the value of voluntary work in our schools and communities,
14 March 2000                                    Page 30 of 346

and who have given us advice and assistance in one manner

or another. Part of that voluntary work has been run by the

Council on Higher Education. We do not pay members of the

Council on Higher Education, something unusual in South

Africa. They are very much part of a voluntary

contribution, a feature in education.

I submit to the members of this House, parents, learners

and teachers of the nation that, with our Tirisano

programme, we have the foundations in place to turn the

situation around, and to bring hope to our children and to

our country. Our overriding goal is to build a national

public education system that will fit South Africa for the

21st century, a system of which South Africans can be

proud. Only South Africans can do it. Working together, we

South Africans will do it. [Applause.]

Prof S M MAYATULA: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister of

Education, Prof Kader Asmal, hon members and invited

guests, allow me to start this presentation with a

quotation from Epicurus, who said:

 It is better for you to be free of fear lying upon a

 pallet, than to have a golden couch and a rich table and
14 March 2000                                 Page 31 of 346

 be full of trouble.

Many South Africans, as we table this Budget, are very

hungry, illiterate and staying under bridges or in shacks,

but one thing is sure, they are free, at last. Their

dignity as persons has been restored. They know that

however poor, illiterate or disabled they might be, this is

their Parliament. We are their representatives, and they

too can, and will, be here tomorrow.

On the day of the main Budget, I was visited by the

leadership of the SA Council of Churches and the Ecumenical

Service for Socioeconomic Transformation, to discuss the

Education budget. Last Friday, 10 March 2000, the Portfolio

Committee on Education had a wonderful workshop on the

Budget, where different structures were freely expressing

their views about the Budget. This is a testimony to the

link of this important institution with the people on the

ground. I will come to their representations later.

Why is it important for both the hon members and the

citizens of our country to understand the facts and figures

of the Budget? Why is transparency of utmost importance? If

they know what the country can afford, and how much is
14 March 2000                                 Page 32 of 346

allocated to what programme, they will stop assuming that

Government money is infinite. They will stop being

strangers or, better still, slaves in their own country,

dependent on the whims of either the Minister of Finance or

the Government. As fully-fledged citizens, they will be in

charge of their own destiny. We are all free and equal,

irrespective of our status in life.

Allow me to highlight a few statistics in the 2000-01

Budget. The total expenditure for this year is R233,5

billion. The consolidated national and provincial spending

on education is R50,7 billion; spending by the national

Department of Education is R7,5 billion; total transfers to

provinces, that is equitable shares, is R94,4 billion;

consolidated grants to provinces is R12,2 billion;

conditional education grants to the national department and

the provinces for financial management and equity

enhancement is R272 million; the contingency reserve, a

portion of which is to be used to repair damage caused by

devastating floods, is R2 billion; the levy on the payroll

assigned to skills development funds is R1,4 billion; and

projects focused on HIV/Aids prevention will get R75

14 March 2000                                    Page 33 of 346

To these figures we must add the anticipated contribution

of the private sector to education as a result of the

Finance Minister's proposal that, and I quote:

 The tax deductibility of donations be extended to

 preprimary and primary schools, children's homes,

 organisations caring for the aged and those which focus

 on HIV/Aids.

These figures, especially when read together with both

historical and MTEF figures, show transparency at its best.

As it were, they show that the pantry is open for all the

family members to see that, that is all the food we have.

We will have to share and be content. I will come back to

some of these figures later.

The budget figure that will be tabled for approval by this

House today is the national Department of Education's

allocation of R7,5 billion. This is due to the fact that

the national Department of Education has a policy-making

and monitoring responsibility in terms of the Constitution

and the education Act, but no executive powers over the

money transferred to the provinces. All executive powers

are vested in the provincial education departments.
14 March 2000                                 Page 34 of 346

However, there are various committees, such as the Council

of Education Ministers, the Heads of Education Departments

Committee and the national and provincial treasuries, which

are trying to co-ordinate and manage this issue in the most

efficient way possible.

Despite this constitutional arrangement, today's debate

will be all-embracing, covering both higher education and

schools. It is our duty and responsibility to also debate

whether, through the national Budget, the provinces will be

able to meet the national norms and standards, especially

the directive contained in section 29(1) of our

Constitution, which states:

 Everyone has the right -

 (a) to a basic education, including adult basic

     education; and

 (b) to further education, which the state, through

     reasonable measures, must make progressively

     available and accessible.

Mine will be to give a broad picture of the impact of this
14 March 2000                                 Page 35 of 346

budget. My colleagues will add more flesh in the different

areas. What are some of the people's concerns about this

budget? I must hasten to say that their concerns are the

ANC Government's concerns, and we are already doing

something about them. The nine priority areas covered in

the Tirisano document cover most of these concerns.

I will confine myself to the schools sector. Firstly, one

of the concerns is that the provincial budget has not

increased in real terms. Let us always remember that we

have a given envelope of resources, in this case, the

R233,5 billion, and we have to live within our means.

Education as a sector is already given the biggest share of

41% in the equitable share formula. That very formula is

being reviewed by the Financial and Fiscal Commission as we

speak. I will explain that later.

Secondly, there is a concern that the Education budget is

not needs-based, leading to inequitable distribution of

resources. The Government has long been deeply concerned

about the inequitable distribution of resources. The new

Financial and Fiscal Commission proposals are now being

discussed with the hope that they will be implemented in

the 2001-02 budget. I would like to highlight some of these
14 March 2000                                 Page 36 of 346

proposals, as contained in the document on the FFC's

preliminary recommendations for 2001, which are referred to

as a costed norms approach for the division of revenue.

In relation to the education grant the following factors

are proposed: Firstly, socioeconomic cost factors, the

proportion of special learners, the age structure of pupil

population, the prevalence of poverty and rural/urban

residence. Secondly, other factors are overenrolment,

learner-educator ratios, the average level of educator

remuneration and independent schools. The norms and

standards of funding of public schools are also intended to

address this problem. Thirdly, there are general concerns

about the infrastructure backlogs as detailed in the

Schools Register of Needs. The general perception is that

the Government is not doing enough.

Over and above the report of the Schools Register of Needs,

the Portfolio Committee on Education visited the Eastern

Cape and KwaZulu-Natal in November last year. Its report is

contained in the ATC of this House dated 9 March 2000. I

would like to encourage members to read that ATC. It was

disheartening to see that some of the schools that were

destroyed by the tornado in 1997, in the Eastern Cape, had
14 March 2000                                 Page 37 of 346

not yet been repaired owing to budgetary constraints.

It was heartening, however, to learn that the Eastern Cape

government has allocated R55 million for the renovation of

schools hit by disaster, the rehabilitation of dilapidated

classrooms and for building new classrooms, and that this

amount will be ring-fenced. However, it is important to

note that this is a drop in the ocean when one considers a

shortage of over 23 000 classrooms in the Eastern Cape

alone, and their annual natural disasters.

The national department sent teams to these provinces to

make personal assessment and make film video footage of the

situation. These reports were tabled before Cabinet in

February this year. Strategies are now being devised to

tackle this problem. I would like to take this time to make

a special appeal to the private sector to respond

positively to the tax relief offer and to assist in the

reconstruction of infrastructure in the poor rural

provinces, so that, in the name of Tirisano, this

infrastructure problem is addressed from all angles. I

fully agree with Barrat when he says: ``If they, the poor,

do not eat, we, the rich, cannot sleep.''
14 March 2000                                 Page 38 of 346

There also seem to be doubts about the commitment of the

department to the Adult Basic Education programme. This

cannot be further from the truth. This is one of the

priority areas that have been identified by the Minister in

the setting up of the National Literacy Agency that he has

just mentioned. The introduction of the skills levy, the

R1,4 billion, and the establishment of sector education and

training authorities under the National Skills Authority

offer a major opportunity for targeting massive increases

in Abet provision. The Umsobomvu Fund should be another

significant source of Abet funding.

There is also a general concern about the lack of

involvement of the department in the preprimary school

sector. It is true that the department is only involved in

the pilot projects in Grade R, sometimes referred to as

Grade O. However, the department is now expanding its

responsibilities to the age group 0-5, the preschool group,

through the work of an interdepartmental committee for

early childhood development. Since no specific legislation

exists to govern early learning, the department will give

attention to the feasibility of an early childhood

development Bill. It is important to note that in countries

like Zanzibar and Equatorial Guinea, the governments have
14 March 2000                                   Page 39 of 346

taken over the running of preprimary schools.

Concerning HIV/Aids prevention, there was a general

appreciation of the allocation of R75 million for the fight

against HIV/Aids.

Concerning the National Skills Development Fund, the

levying of a 0,5% on payrolls, which is expected to yield

R1,4 billion for the national skills development strategy,

will go a long way in changing the skills scenery in our

country. It will benefit both those who are at school and

those who are out; those who are in industry and those who

have been retrenched.

Concerning the contingency reserve, the sum of R2 billion

that has been set aside as contingency reserve is

acknowledged. The statement by the Minister of Finance that

we expect to allocate a portion of this reserve to repair

damage caused by the devastating recent floods, is highly

appreciated. It is understood that the term ``recent

floods'' is inclusive of all natural disasters.

The stage has been set for delivery. Let us all roll up our

sleeves and volunteer our services. It is better to do
14 March 2000                                 Page 40 of 346

something for nothing than to do nothing for nothing. Let

us try to achieve more with our limited resources, always

cognisant of the fact that the source of desire is never

filled nor fully satisfied.

I would like to take this time to thank the members of the

portfolio committee for their commitment and determination

as we, together, work hard to sort out the problems of the

country. [Applause.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairperson, the hon Minister made brief

reference to the history of the transformation of education

in our country over the past six years. I also need to make

a brief reference to it. I do not have the time to go into

detail, unfortunately. The Minister had some 40 minutes.

The Minister's five-year education plan certainly has a

great deal to commend it, but South Africans have certainly

become used to having five-year plans thrust at them, the

most recent of which is that of Prof Bengu, the former

Minister of Education, whose plan it was, quite frankly, to

transform education as fast as possible whether what was

created as a result of that rapid transformation was

workable or not.
14 March 2000                                 Page 41 of 346

Against this background our present Minister has to work,

picking up the pieces of what was little more than

communist or socialist engineering ... [Interjections] ...

in an attempt to put in place a new system which would

create real equality and real opportunity for all South

Africans in our education system, giving the children the

hope that the hon Minister has spoken about this morning.

Now even this hon Minister has indicated his frustration

with what he found by indicating recently that while many

of Prof Bengu's plans may have been well intentioned, they

were, at best, rushed. The truth of this is that many of

the education policies of the past five years have failed.


Of course there are those - and I do not think the hon

Minister is one of them - who say that it was necessary to

give a strong overdose of transformation at the beginning

of the new process in order to create a critical mass of

thinking, thus ensuring that the discourse on education was

changed forever. This is vague and insincere because, at

the end of the day, these failed plans resulting from this

thinking have come at huge cost and failed opportunity from

which we as South Africans have to begin again.
14 March 2000                                    Page 42 of 346

Minister Asmal's plans have real potential, but it is now

in the implementation that the real test will come. The

Minister talked about teacher development and placed a

great deal of emphasis on it. That is good. But the issue

of teacher discipline is an immediate problem. The Minister

has stated in his policy that one of his objectives is to

ensure that all schools have leadership and management with

a vision and sense of purpose to promote and enhance

learning and teaching. He has given a number of performance

indicators including the undertaking, by management, of

regular classroom visits and the review of educator

performance. This is good and we endorse it, because it is

essential in an education system.

However, quite frankly, as long as Sadtu is able to

continue with its moratorium on classroom visits by

principals, superintendents and others, and is able to call

for educators, strikes at the drop of a hat, school, and

education in general, will fail. And as long as educators

are allowed the freedom to do as they like in terms of

education discipline, our matric results will continue to

be appalling. We have to insist that our educators are

disciplined and that they then pass the sense of discipline

onto the learners. This is the real challenge.
14 March 2000                                 Page 43 of 346

The Minister has indicated that he intends taking action.

He must control the trade unions, instil proper discipline

in our schools, among our educators and learners, and then

we will begin to see the difference. This will be giving

our children the real hope he talks about. However, there

are many other challenges. I have time for only two. The

hon Minister has mentioned one, the question of illiteracy.

When he took over the Education Ministry in 1999, he

promised to eliminate adult illiteracy in five years. This

is a hugely ambitious target. Throughout the world, adult

illiteracy has been a difficult problem with often

disappointing results. But it can conceivably be done with

sufficient time, effort and resources, together with an

effective strategy.

Nearly one year on from the Minister's promise, there is,

quite frankly, little sign of anything happening. But today

he has come up with some new plans. We also have some plans

which we sincerely hope he will endorse. What we have at

present is a tottering bureaucracy of the NQF, which was

meant to embrace adult education with its catch-all

centralisation plan. But adult basic education has become

lost in the complexity of a framework. Poor and rural

illiterates do not have a hope.
14 March 2000                                 Page 44 of 346

The answer to adult illiteracy is not a system which is so

difficult and costly to administer that even New Zealand,

with better resources and a far smaller population, is

struggling with it. We need to have a national campaign

which has literacy as a central feature rather than a

neglected side-show. Now, if there is to be any progress,

adult literacy must become a high profile political

campaign. The message must be spread at every occasion and

by every means. This must be accompanied by a realistic

national strategy which gives every illiterate person the

opportunity to change his or her life.

The DP proposes, as a first step, the appointment of a

Deputy Minister specifically for adult education. We

already have a Deputy Minister of Education, but his role

has not been revealed to us and his functions, quite

frankly, are obscure. We therefore propose that he be

replaced by a powerful and respected expert, seconded from

the private sector if necessary, who will take charge of

adult education. This person will be responsible for

implementing a strategy for adult education which combines

flexibility at a microlevel and focuses commitment at

national level.
14 March 2000                                 Page 45 of 346

We do not believe that the rigid structure of the NQF can

allow for the adaptability to local needs and conditions

which adult education projects must have to succeed.

Projects must be carried out at local level, by local

people. But the campaign also needs a national voice. The

Deputy Minister for adult education will be this voice for

a range of projects directed at putting opportunities in

the hands of the poorest of the poor.

The final point I want to raise is the serious predicament

that many private higher education institutions find

themselves in following their failed registration at the

beginning of the year. Many institutions that did fail have

been operating in South Africa for decades and have built

up reputations for offering degrees and diplomas of high

quality and/or international credentialling - not the fly-

by-night operations that experts in the field believed the

process was intended to penalise.

But there can be no doubt that institutions were confused

by the process and have, I earnestly believe, been the

victims of circumstances that they had not previously

encountered. In addition, poor communication and a lack of

clear information from the department, but in particular
14 March 2000                                 Page 46 of 346

from SAQA, led to many registrations being inadequately


These institutions are now suffering and I urge the

Minister to consult with them in an attempt to resolve the

crisis. While we accept that no substandard institution

should be allowed to exist, there is no doubt that many

good institutions are also the victims of a process that

was not adequately thought through and for which proper

channels of communication were not opened. I say to the

Minister that he cannot allow many of these institutions to

die. He needs to take action.

In conclusion, the hon the Minister said: Let us give our

children real hope. We agree with him. Whether Curriculum

2005, for example, is the solution, is doubtful, as the

Minister seemed to imply it was. But we agree with the

sentiments. Let us give our children real hope. But this

means moving forward with care and concern, making sure

that the plans we introduce are workable and in the best

interests of the children whom we are putting them in place


Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Chairperson and hon members, I stand
14 March 2000                                 Page 47 of 346

here today to participate in this debate with all the hurt

and the indignity of the past.

The dehumanising aspects of the old education system are

still with us. When we are involved in the task of ridding

ourselves of the dehumanising education policies, those who

were never touched by this dehumanisation, those who never

experienced the hurt and indignity of the inhuman policies

of the past, will never understand the IFP's support or

nonsupport for some of Government's policies. [Applause.]

We understand their ignorance, but they stand unforgiven if

their nonunderstanding of our policy stance is deliberate

political posturing. The article by the DP's national

director of strategy which appeared in the Financial Mail

of 3 March 2000 falls into the category of those who are

either ignorant of the IFP policies or those who are

politically malicious. This article by the DP identifies

three directions open to opposition parties. It says, and I


 Firstly, co-option by ANC, as with Inkatha. Secondly,

 constructive engagement with the ANC, as with the New NP.

 Thirdly, vigorous opposition, as with the DP.
14 March 2000                                 Page 48 of 346

To assert that the IFP has been co-opted by the ANC is a

gross misunderstanding of the South African political

situation in general, and the black polity in particular.

[Applause.] The history of the bloody conflict between the

ANC and the IFP is well known or should be well known. The

casualties of this conflict were the blacks who constitute

the majority of the two organisations.

To normalise South Africa, the relationship between the ANC

and the IFP had to be normalised, hence the painful process

of reconciliation was begun by the two organisations.

[Applause.] I am saying it was a painful process because,

right at the beginning, the leadership of the IFP realised

that we were going to pay some heavy prices in this process

of reconciliation. One of the heavy prices we are paying is

the distortion of who we are and what we are by the likes

of the DP. It is interesting that the DP's article appeared

under the title: ``Leon plans five-year roadshow in black


To us, the IFP, reconciliation is not a strategy as it

appears to be to the DP. We cannot put it on and take it

off like a raincoat, depending on the political weather.

[Applause.] It is, on our part, a principled stand and not
14 March 2000                                    Page 49 of 346

part of the roadshow. We are propelled forward by our

philosophy of the revolution of goodwill.

Asibukisi ngokuhlupheka kwabantu. Babukiselani

ngokuhlupheka kwabantu? [Ihlombe.] [We are not showing off

about people's misery. Why are they parading about people's

suffering? [Applause.]]

Members know that political parties can be likened to a

good restaurant which keeps on modifying its menu to

maintain its clientele and attract new customers.

[Laughter.] The IFP has its own distinct education policy

which it keeps on developing as it responds to the

education challenges which face the country.   Perhaps the

DP is seeing this IFP policy document for the first time.


Mr M J ELLIS: [Inaudible.]

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: I will organise a workshop in which we

will explain the IFP policies to Mr Ellis. [Laughter.]


South Africa is not a homogenous society, hence the IFP's
14 March 2000                                 Page 50 of 346

policy of pluralism which underlies the IFP's vision for

South Africa. Our policy of pluralism implies not only the

recognition of cultural diversity and its richness, but

also support for a range of different institutions which

cater for the specific needs and desires of communities and

civil society. The principle of pluralism in education has

two major parallel implications.

Firstly, matters should be governed and administered by the

lowest level of Government, hence the IFP support for the

devolution of matters to provinces. We view education as a

function which is an extension of family and community life

and should thus be organised at a level which is closest to

community life, which is the province.

The second implication for our policy of pluralism is that

maximum scope should be allowed for voluntary initiative by

the communities themselves, under national norms and

standards. This allows for the existence of more than two

types of schools, as stipulated by the SA Schools Act.

We have always argued for private initiative, because we

realise the inability of the state alone to provide

education. It must, however, be remembered that we, as the
14 March 2000                                 Page 51 of 346

IFP, could not oppose the SA Schools Bill in its entirety

when it was piloted in this House, because its objectives

were to rid the education of our country of the racist laws

which governed the education system in the past.

If our support for a piece of legislation, which had as its

objective the unification of an otherwise fragmented and

racist system, is seen as co-option, so let it be.

[Applause.] We do not apologise to anyone, least of all to

the DP. In 1997, the Education department conducted the

school register of needs survey. We applauded the

department for this survey because it showed the

Government's commitment to equity.

We support the department's efforts which are aimed at

closing the gap between the two types of South Africa - the

one with the well-staffed and functioning schools, and the

other with schools the majority of which are dysfunctional.

We have always called for the establishment of an

equalisation fund, which is similar to a fund which Germany

established when its wall of shame came tumbling down.

There is still a wall of shame in the South African

education system. Two Education portfolio committee
14 March 2000                                 Page 52 of 346

delegations visited the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal

provinces in November 1999. I was part of the delegation

which visited KwaZulu-Natal. The physical degradation of

some of the schools which we visited was very shocking and

depressing. These schools were not at all fit for human

occupation. The provinces just cannot cope.

Four years after the publication of the school register of

needs survey, not a single school has been built by the

provinces. Between 80% and 90% of the provincial budget is

taken up by personnel expenditure, with nothing left for

capital work, hence the perpetuation of the wall of shame.

We are calling for a redress fund.

We have studied the department's Tirisano implementation

plan with keen interest. On 23 February 2000, I personally

led a six-person delegation which met the Minister in his

offices here in Cape Town. There too, we listened very

carefully to what the Minister said. I want to say to the

hon Minister that we walked away from that meeting with

greater hope of getting our education right. Do they not

say that a nation without a vision perishes? We, however,

have hope.
14 March 2000                                 Page 53 of 346

However, the Minister's vision will be tested in getting

the basic things right in our education system. Let me

mention a few of these basic things. The role of inspectors

of education in the management of our education is one of

these basic things. I know that in our quest for a better

deal in education, inspectors of schools were discredited

as people with Nazi-style leadership - those black shirts,

or the SS. However, we urge that an urgent re-examination

be undertaken. I know. I was an inspector of schools

myself. One of the descriptions given of inspectors was

that they were men carrying suitcases full of teachers'

mistakes. [Time expired.]

Nk P N MNANDI: Sihlalo, oNgqongqoshe abahloniphekileyo,

abahlonishwa, maqabane nezihlobo, ngonyaka odlule enyangeni

kaLwezi sasimi lapha phambi kwenu sizokhuluma mayelana

nokwakhiwa kwesikhwama sezimali sokusiza abafundi bemfundo

ephakeme kuzwelonke.

Esakubeka kwakhanya bha ngukuthi uHulumeni kaKhongolose

unomlando ojulile nezimpande ezijulile ekuletheni inguquko

ngesikhulu isivinini kuleli zwe. Isisekelo salo mlando

omuhle kangaka sabekwa ngo-1955 ngabantu balapha eNingizimu

Afrika kuSomqulu weNkululeko yeZwe lapho bathi khona
14 March 2000                                 Page 54 of 346

amasango emfundo ayokuvuleka kubantu bonke ngokulinganayo.

[Ihlombe.] UKhongolose usalokhu ehambe njalo ngalowo mgudu

akakaze kuze kube manje achezuke nakancane. Nabantu

bakufakazele lokho uma bembuyisela kuHulumeni uKhongolose


Nembala-ke uhlelo lweSabiwomali esikhuluma ngalo namhlanje

oluphathelene nemfundo ephakeme lukufakazele lokhu ukuthi

uKhongolose uzimisele. Kukhanye bha ngenkathi kubekwa la,

nguNgqongqoshe wezeziMali, ngokusobala ukuthi isikhwama

lesi uye wasithi gcize nge-13% ngaphezulu. Thina-ke

bakaKhongolose asibongi siyanconcoza kulokhu. [Ihlombe.]

Sithi lolu wuphaphe esigqokweni sikaNgqongqoshe uTrevor


UKhongolose unikeziwe igunya ngabantu ukuthi azilethe

izinguquko kuleli zwe. Umyalezo usuphumile. Kubonakele

kwiSabiwomali ukuthi nembala uKhongolose akasoze ahluleka.

Ngokwenyusa lesi sikhwama asingabazi ukuthi yilaba

abalandelayo abazosizakala kakhulu kunakuqala: abafundi

abaqhamuka ezindaweni zasemaphandleni, abafundi abantulayo,

abafundi abakhubazekile, abafundi besifazane nabafundi

bezinhlanga zonke kuleli. Halala ANC!
14 March 2000                                 Page 55 of 346


Nk P N MNANDI: Nakuba uHulumeni kaKhongolose ekwazile

ukuqhamuka nosizo olunje, siyabona futhi siyavuma ukuthi

zisekhona izinkinga kumbe izihibe kwizikhungo zemfundo

ephakeme kuleli. Inkinga enkulu nokuyiyona eyisihibe

ngukuthi kumele abafundi baqale ngokukhokha imali

yokubhalisa, ebizwa nge-registration fee. Le mali isikhathi

esiningi icela kuma-R2 000 kuya phezulu.

Le mali kumele umfundi ngamunye ayikhokhe ngaphambi kokuthi

akwazi ukuthola isikhala sokungena enyonivesi. Lokhu nje

kukodwa kuvala ngci amasango kumfundi ophuma ekhaya

elintulayo. Lokhu sikwazi kahle kangcono ngoba iningi lethu

lapha eNdlini liphuma lapho. Kulokhu sithi ibhodi

elengamemele isikhwama siyalinxusa ukuba libheke lolu daba

ngeso lokhozi. Siphinde sinxuse zonke izinhlangazo

eziphethe uhlelo lwemifundaze kwimfundo ephakeme ukuba

zibheke ukuthi zingaqhamuka namaphi amaqhinga okusiza

abafundi ngezimali zokubhalisa.

Namanyunivesi mawabheke ukuthi angaqhamuka kanjani

namaqhinga okwenza ukuthi le mali ibe yingxenye yesikhwama

sokusiza abafundi, khona enyonivesi. Okunye okufanele
14 March 2000                                 Page 56 of 346

sikubeke la ngembaba namhlanje yikhona ukuthi abantu bonke

bakuleli zwe kumele bakhumbule ukuthi asinayo imfundo

ephakeme yamahhala kuleli zwe, kodwa uHulumeni kaKhongolose

ukwenze konke okusemandleni ukuthi abafundi bafinyelele

kwimfundo ephakeme engcono.

Ngakho uMongameli wezwe noNgqongqoshe wezeMfundo

bawuhlabile umkhosi wokuthi sonke masibambane kulo

mshikashika wokuletha imfundo engcono nelinganayo kuleli.

Bathe: Mfundi, mzali, mfundisi, mphakathi, somabhizinisi,

nathi sonke, masibe nogqozi nofuqufuqu nentshisekelo

ngekusasa lesizukulwane sase-Afrika khona sizokwazi ukufeza

amaphupho okubumba i-Afrika ivuke kabusha.

Siyabonga ukuthi uHulumeni uphindile futhi wayibeka induku

ebandla ngokuthi ayifake futhi imali esikhwameni sokulwa

nokungalingani kwezemfundo ephakeme kuleli, ebizwa ngokuthi

yi-redress fund. Siyawezwa amahebezi aqhamuka kulabo

abasabelethe ubandlululo kuleli. Bathi uHulumeni

noNgqongqoshe wezeMfundo sebefuna ukuvala izikhungo

zemfundo ephakeme ezindaweni zabantu abamnyama. Cha-bo,

akunjalo. UNgqongqoshe uthi kumele kube khona uguquko

kwimfundo ephakeme jikelele kuzwelonke.
14 March 2000                                   Page 57 of 346

Ngenxa yokuthi zikhona ngempela izinkinga ezadalwa

nguhulumeni wobandlululo, njengamanje kunesigungu esibekiwe

ukuthi sicwaninge futhi sicubungule ukuthi kungenziwa

kanjani konke lokhu ukuthi phela siyithathe le mfundo

ephakeme ebeyingeyabangcono, ilingane kulo lonke izinga.

Lokho-ke uphezu kwako uNgqongqoshe.

Izoguqulwa yonke, kumanyonivesi abamhlophe nawabamnyama

kuqhanyukwe necebo lokulinganisa imfundo ephakeme.

Kubafundi sithi: UHulumeni oholwa nguKhongolose

uyazikhandla ekwenzeni izinga lemfundo ukuthi lithuthuke

kuleli zwe. Nabo kumele badlale indima yabo, bayeke ukuthi

njalo uma bevukwa ngamadlingozi bacekele phansi impahla

nezakhiwo. Hhayi-bo. Abafundi mababe yisibonelo. [Kwaphela

isikhathi.] (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)

[Mrs P N MNANDI: Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon members,

comrades and    relatives, in November last year we were

standing here in front    of you as we were talking about the

creation of a national    financial aid fund for students.

What we clearly put forward was that the ANC Government has

deep history and roots in bringing about quick changes in

this country. Such a good foundation in its history was
14 March 2000                                 Page 58 of 346

laid in 1955 by South Africans in the Bill of National

Freedom, where it was stated that gates for education

should be opened equally for all. [Applause.] The ANC

always keep on walking in that lane, it has never turned

off. Even the people of South Africa confirmed this when

they overwhelmingly voted again for the ANC Government.

Of course the budget of higher education that we are

discussing today confirms the ANC's commitment. It became

absolutely clear when the budget was put on the table that

the hon the Minister of Finance has increased it with 13%.

We in the ANC are very grateful for this. [Applause.] We

say this is a credit to the hon Minister, Trevor Manual.

The ANC has been mandated to bring about changes in this

country. The message has been given. It has been proved in

the Budget that the ANC will never fail. By increasing the

Budget we are sure that the people who will benefit the

most are the following: Students from the rural areas,

needy students, disabled students, women students and

students of all races in this country. Congratulations to

the ANC!

HON MEMBERS: Congratulations!
14 March 2000                                   Page 59 of 346

Mrs P N MNANDI: Although the ANC Government has succeeded

in bringing such assistance, we concede that there are

still problems in the   institutions of higher learning in

this country. The most crucial problem is that students

should start paying registration fees. Most of the time

this fee is in the region of R2 000 and more.

A student is expected to pay this fee before he or she is

admitted to a university. This alone closes the gates

completely for a student who comes from a poor family. We

know this better than anyone else, because most of the

people in this House have experienced the same situation.

Therefore we appeal to the board that monitors this fund to

look at this issue seriously. We also appeal to all

organisations that control bursaries for tertiary education

to look at what solutions they can come up with in order to

assist students with registration fees.

Universities too must try to come up with strategies to

make this fee a part of the fund that is created for

assisting students at university level. Another thing that

we should state clearly is that the people of this country

should remember that we have no free education at tertiary

level. However, the ANC has done all that is possible to
14 March 2000                                 Page 60 of 346

make it possible for students to receive a tertiary


The President and the hon the Minister of Education have

proclaimed that we should all work together in an attempt

to bring about a better and equal education for all. They

have said: "Learner, parent, teacher, community, business

people, and all of us should be encouraged and be

enthusiastic about the future of the coming generations of

Africa so that we will be able to make our dream of

rebuilding Africa, a reality".

We notice that the Government has for the second time done

extremely well by putting more money into a redress fund

which aims at redressing the inequality in our education in

this country. We are aware of the rumours spread by those

who are still carrying apartheid on their backs in this

country. They say the President and the hon the Minister

want to close down black universities. This is not true.

The hon the Minister says some changes should take place in

the institutions of higher learning all over the country.

Since there are real problems, which were created by the

apartheid regime, now there is a council that has been
14 March 2000                                   Page 61 of 346

tasked to    investigate what should be done to enable us to

transform education, so that it will be equal at all

levels. This is what the hon the Minister is working on.

A new plan to equalise tertiary education will be devised

and education in black and white universities will be

changed in its entirety. We say to students: ``The ANC

Government is working hard towards improving the level of

education in this country.'' They are also expected to play

an important role in this campaign. They should not destroy

property whenever they are emotionally frustrated. We warn

them. We expect them to be exemplary students. [Time


Adv A H GAUM: Mnr die Voorsitter, John F Kennedy het gesê:

 Our progress as a nation can be no swifter than our

 progress in education.

As gekyk word na ons powere vordering op onderwysgebied,

lyk die prentjie vir ons nasie maar donker. (Translation of

Afrikaans follows.)

[Adv A H GAUM: Mr Chairperson, John F Kennedy said:
14 March 2000                                 Page 62 of 346

 Our progress as a nation can be no swifter than our

 progress in education.

If we look at our poor progress in the area of education,

the picture for our nation looks sombre.]

Amidst this dark picture, it is regretted that in real

terms, the Education budget has been cut by 2%. Since 1997,

the real spending on education has dropped by 1,3%

annually. If the population growth of 2,2% per year is

taken into account, the real per capita drop of 13% has

taken place since 1997.

If education budgets remain static in real terms, the

decline in personnel expenditure, as reflected in the

budget, means that we will loose 11 000 teachers. This loss

can rise to 25 000 if utterances in the ELRC that the

average personnel spending should be reduced to 85% of the

Education budget become reality. Amidst problems with

overcrowded classes, empty classrooms such as the computer

classroom of KwaMakhutha High School in KwaZulu-Natal, and

a threatening shortage of up to 16 000 teachers within the

next two years, this spells disaster, and quality education

for all will remain a pipe dream. The Minister should note
14 March 2000                                   Page 63 of 346

that we need more teachers, and not fewer.

Benewens misdaad, is daar geen groter en belangriker

uitdaging vir Suid-Afrika as die onderwys nie. Dit moet ook

gereflekteer word in die wyse waarop die begrotings van

Onderwys en Veiligheid en Sekuriteit bereken word. Ons moet

eers ons land se werklike onderwysbehoeftes vasstel en dan

bepaal hoe hierdie behoeftes gefinansier kan word.

(Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Apart from crime, there is no bigger and more important

challenge to South Africa than education. This should also

be reflected in the way in which the budgets of Education

and Safety and Security are calculated. We must first

establish our country's actual educational needs and then

determine how these needs can be financed.]

At times countries should spend a far greater percentage of

their Budgets on education in order to ensure future

benefits. Given the state of crisis in our education

system, this is such a time. The Budget should be the

implementation tool for Government's policies and plans.

Yet, it is clear that, except for the additional R272

million for teachers' professional development and to
14 March 2000                                  Page 64 of 346

support the culture of learning, teaching and service

campaign, the Budget will make no real contribution towards

implementing Minister Asmal's Tirisano plan.

For example, the second priority on the Minister's list of

priorities is breaking the back of illiteracy among adults

and youths within five years. However, the budget reduces

the allocation in this regard from R2 billion to R1,87

billion. We reckon that breaking the back of illiteracy

with reduced budgets sounds a bit optimistic. The third

priority states that schools must become centres of

community life and that we must put great effort into

ensuring that school governing bodies are given the support

they need to become strong and viable. However, no money is

made available by the budget to train governing bodies. It

appears that Government is not willing to put their money

where Minister Asmal's mouth is.

While we welcome it that the deductibility of donations

will be extended to preprimary and primary schools, we are

very concerned about the phasing out of Government funding

of preprimary education. We have not seen much of

Government's plans to substitute public funding of

preprimary schools with public funding of the so-called
14 March 2000                                 Page 65 of 346

Grade O. On the contrary, we note a more than 50% cut of

current and capital expenditure for early childhood

development. At present, early childhood development

funding is minuscule, being less than 1% of the budget.

Government is still dragging its feet on the full

implementation of early childhood development programmes.

Intussen is die Regering besig om pre-primêre skole dood te

maak, pleks daarvan om bestaande pre-primêre skole te

gebruik om met die implementering van ``EDC'' te begin.

Volgens provinsiale omsendbriewe word pre-primêre poste

afgeskaf wanneer hulle vakant word. In sodanige gevalle kry

die skole 'n belaglike R2 per leerder per dag, tot op 'n

maksimum van R10 000 per klas. (Translation of Afrikaans

paragraph follows.)

[In the meantime the Government is killing the preprimary

schools, instead of utilising existing preprimary schools

to start with the implementation of ECD. According to

provincial circulars preprimary posts are abolished when

they become vacant. In these instances the schools are

receiving a ridiculous amount of R2 per learner per day, up

to a maximum of R10 000 per class.]
14 March 2000                                 Page 66 of 346

This whole situation is exacerbated by the fact that the

school-going age has been increased to six going on seven,

leaving many children who are school-ready without any

stimulation and development. Meanwhile, my information is

that more than 40% of the learners who wrote matric last

year on taxpayers' costs, were older than 20 years.

International education research shows that investing in

early childhood development improves the effectiveness of

the entire education system. As SADTU puts it, South

Africa's high failure and drop-out rates are in part the

result of the failure by the Government to take early

childhood development seriously. We call on the Government

to rescue early childhood development by, at least in the

interim, continuing to adequately subsidise our preprimary


All this having been said, the New NP believes that the

time has come to reconsider the kind of educational reforms

we are undertaking in this country. We have had too many

rules and resources reforms, and almost no incentive

reforms. On the contrary, this Government has taken away

the few incentives teachers had - such as notches, ranks

and the acknowledgement of qualifications - and has not

honoured its promise to replace it with performance-related
14 March 2000                                  Page 67 of 346

grading and promotion.

While rules and resource-based reforms have failed

internationally to significantly improve the quality of

education delivered by government schools, our Government

is sticking to them. The absence of effective incentives on

the part of those who consume and those who produce

education explains the poor results we have.

We need parental school choice, greater competition for

students amongst schools, more local and decentralised

decision-making, and greater accountability for results and

performance. Effective reform requires accountability. In

the words of Governor George W Bush, someone should be

praised when schools succeed and someone should be

responsible when they fail.

We should accept that standards will not be met simply

because they have been declared. Without consequence for

failure, standards are all bark and no bite. Without

rewarding and providing resources for success, standards

are all hope with no prayer. Accountability is empty

without local control. High costs, lack of choice, low

quality, widespread inefficiency and rampant
14 March 2000                                 Page 68 of 346

dissatisfaction are the result of a virtual state monopoly

in education. We need more decentralisation and less

Government control.

We must also recognise the central role of competition in

achieving better schools. Where we find failure, we should

give parents different options such as charter schools and

greater school choice. A charter school is a public school

that agrees to meet certain performance standards in

exchange for greater freedom from the state. It accepts

accountability for results in exchange for autonomy in the

choice of methods for achieving those results. These

schools are authorised via charters by government

authorities. If it does not perform up to academic

standards in its charter, the charter can be revoked by


The national Government should fund only what works in

education and only those methods and ideas that prove their

power to close the achievement gap. We should stop using

taxpayers' money to reward failure. If schools do not

improve, there should be a final point of accountability.

At the end of three years, if a school does not make

progress, we should make the money which is spent per
14 March 2000                                 Page 69 of 346

learner at that school directly available to parents. These

vouchers can be supplemented with universal tax credits

allowing any taxpayer to contribute to the education of

children and receive a rand-for-rand tax credit. Then

parents should be allowed to choose tutoring at a different

public school, charter school or a private one. This will

allow parents to choose hope over failure.

We cannot continue to trap children in schools that do not

teach and will not change. The goal should be to strengthen

public schools by expecting performance. The goal should

also be to make sure that Government no longer pays schools

to cheat poor children. More competition and more choices

for parents will raise the bar for everyone. Every child in

South Africa must have a first-rate education because there

are no second-rate children and no second-rate dreams.


Mr S J DE BEER: Chairperson, on behalf of the UDM, I want

to congratulate Prof Asmal on his appointment as Minister

of Education. In this field of great importance to the

future of our people in South Africa, where we are facing

enormous challenges, his appointment is indeed a ray of

hope. His understanding of our educational problems and his
14 March 2000                                 Page 70 of 346

willingness to bravely search for solutions have met with

general approval. We wish him well in his efforts. Mr Thami

Mseleku is the new director-general and we also want to

wish him well and congratulate him on his appointment.

The Education budget for the financial year 2000-2001 shows

an increase of R500 million or 1% compared with the

previous year. If this increase is compared with an

estimated inflation rate of 6% to 8%, in real terms, there

is a reduction. This is a disappointing fact if one takes

into consideration all the needs that have to be addressed

in this field. It also makes it so much more imperative

that funds be properly managed and controlled, so that they

reach their goal.

The future stability and prosperity of South Africa will

depend on the level and the quality of education and skills

training of all its citizens. These will make the greatest

contribution by far to growth and equity in our society. In

a dynamic, interrelated world, education can only fully

contribute within a context of creative collaboration

amongst all role-players in the field of education.

Education authorities, educators, learners, parents,

entrepreneurs and unions need to take hands now more than
14 March 2000                                  Page 71 of 346

ever before and work towards a more effective dispensation.

Unions must be seen as partners to ensure clear

communication, and must be enabled to do capacity building

for their members to ensure that they remain professional

within a dynamic, globally involved African context.

Educators are the keys to world class education and their

role must be emphasised. The educators' role may not be

reduced to a number in a ratio for funding purposes. They

must be given the opportunity to answer to the community

they serve without having to give up their professionalism.

In submissions regarding the Education budget to the

portfolio committee, unions last week indicated that many

of the grandiose programmes initiated by Government will be

nullified if the present low teacher morale in all

communities is not effectively addressed.   Last year,

teachers' motivation was at an all time low. Teachers must

perceive that their posts are more secure than has been the

experience for the past five years. Rationalisation,

redeployment and the months of uncertainty and tension over

salary increases had a devastating effect on teachers'

morale. The related two-day strike in the third quarter

also alienated teachers from the department. These issues
14 March 2000                                 Page 72 of 346

must be brought to a close as soon as possible.

In the rural areas of the Eastern Cape, for instance,

redeployment had a severe negative effect on family life,

where newly qualified teachers could not be employed. This

process not only depressed teachers to be deployed, but

further frustrated those young teachers who had hoped for


Another stark warning was sounded by the Joint Education

Trust who, last year, did research into the state of school

education. They said:

 Unless the quality of teaching is improved through

 massive in-service training and money is pumped into

 resources, especially textbooks and teaching materials,

 the school system is headed for collapse. The greatest

 and most immediate need is for teachers and pupils to be

 in their classrooms, engaged in real teaching and active


Pupils are not learning to read and write. Many are leaving

school as functional illiterates. Many schools use only 40%

of the maximum teaching time because of absenteeism,
14 March 2000                                  Page 73 of 346

teachers and pupils leaving early, and schools starting

after the beginning of term and closing early. One

consequence of this situation is a steady decline in the

pass rate. Twenty years ago, 38% of school graduates

obtained grades good enough to qualify them for university.

Last year's figure was 12,5 %. The actual number of school

graduates eligible for university has dropped by almost a

third since the ANC came to power. [Time expired.]


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Chairperson, hon members,

the Minister has given a very broad kaleidoscope of our

agenda in trying to transform education in this country. I

am going to focus on the teacher development programme.

In the early 1980s, in the sacrosanct name of education,

the apartheid regime conducted one in-service course after

another of propaganda and indoctrination, especially for

black teachers.   Because these were God-forsaken exercises,

they often took place in God-forsaken places. One such

course, vividly recalled by a teacher who was there, was

conducted at a desolate place called Zandspruit.

He recalls that particular one because every morning they
14 March 2000                                  Page 74 of 346

were expected to sing and pray in front of the South

African flag,   which would subsequently be hoisted, with

the white instructor standing ramrod straight and saluting

that multicoloured cloth. After a day or two of this

humiliation, this teacher raised an objection - an act

which was to have him monitored and later, with other

accusations against his teaching and political activities,

detained. He subsequently wrote, in protest against that

oppressive flag hoisting, a poem entitled ``Zandspruit,

please don't ask for my allegiance''.

The courses that I refer to were a reinforcement to the

large-scale brainwashing that was taking place at apartheid

teacher training colleges, where a pedagogy of oppression

refined into an art form was fed into future teachers. That

was teacher training and development in the halcyon days of

apartheid; a travesty of the nobility of the teaching

profession; an insult to the intelligence of especially

black teachers.

I must say that democracy is truly remarkable, if one

considers that today we have to talk education with the

very people who so flagrantly abused it. We also have to

debate it with their ideological soul mates, who believe
14 March 2000                                 Page 75 of 346

that they should adopt schools in order to score political

points. For these people's benefit, let us extract two

salient issues from today's introduction of the Education


One was cast in the form of the question why public funds

must be voted for education services. The other was the

assertion that public education must command public

confidence. In pursuing these issues, we must begin by

learning from history and categorically say that public

funds must definitely not be voted for the kind of

militaristic training and hypnotisation of teachers that

led to a teacher hollering in indignation: Zandspruit,

please don't ask for my allegiance.

We must also say that public funds must not be voted into

education so as to create schools that will become

political hunting grounds for parties that have reached the

zenith of rightwing growth and now face stagnation. We

should confirm the Education Ministry's position. Public

education must command public confidence. We should also

indicate that much of that public confidence will stem from

a teaching staff that is prepared for the unique challenges

of the 21st century.
14 March 2000                                 Page 76 of 346

In our context, that is a teaching personnel trained,

upgraded or retrained in the pedagogy of the liberated.

This is a teaching cadre committed to the imperatives of

nation-building through our transforming curriculum. The

Government is aware that in pursuit of that kind of

teaching force, but also as an ongoing education quality

assurance measure, a financial investment is needed.

Consequently, R272 million is specifically allocated for

teachers' professional development and the Colt's campaign.

We in the Ministry welcome this amount as a sign of the

ANC-led Government's practical commitment to the

professional development and welfare of our national

resource, our teachers. In 1996, with the National Teacher

Audit concluded:

 The quality of teacher education is the biggest challenge

 confronting South Africa at the close of the century.

 In order to tackle the quality challenge, the inherited

 inequalities across institutions and sectors, must be

 eliminated. High quality teacher development is required

 for all serving and would-be teachers.
14 March 2000                                 Page 77 of 346

Through the new financial year's education allocation

referred to above, we are continuing our response to the

National Teacher Audit's finding on the critical need for

teacher development. We shall release a White Paper on

policy on educator development in June. The envisaged

policy document shall be linked to the norms and standards

for educators that we have recently published. It clearly

defines the kinds of competencies expected from teachers of

South African children.

While, however, that process continues, we will continue to

target the 85 501 unqualified and underqualified teachers

for upgrading, so that they may deliver better quality

education. We have discussed this matter with the educator

unions. We are mindful of the experience these teachers

have gathered over time, so we are investigating ways in

which we can address their training needs against the

background of the recognition of prior learning.

We are determined to break the back of underqualification

and no qualification at all in the teaching service.

Consider the fact that only a little more than a two years

ago, Edusource reported that there were 112 000 unqualified

and underqualified teachers in South Africa. That was 31%
14 March 2000                                 Page 78 of 346

of the teaching force. Today's 85 501 figure translates

into 23,9%. Against the highest standards of delivery set

by this Government, that is still inadequate, but it does

prove that something positive is happening. We intend to

build on this momentum.

In-service training via short accredited courses will

continue as our vehicle to retrain our teachers on teaching

and learning strategies, including high level skills

demanded by an outcomes-based form of teaching and

learning. Completion and fruitful implementation of the

courses will be supported by a reward and incentive system

for good practice.

All the initiatives at play are underpinned by a commitment

to producing an ethical and professional educator corps.

Raising professional teacher standards is at the heart of

our existence as a Ministry charged with the educational

health of our nation. That is why we must reiterate the

obligation of our teachers to join their statutory

professional body, the SA Council for Educators. We wish to

indicate that all our diverse interventions on teacher

development should ultimately converge at a point where our

teachers will be able to identify their own developmental
14 March 2000                                 Page 79 of 346


The past history has hamstrung a sizeable number of our

teachers. Current history is empowering all our teachers.

The future will liberate the minds of our teachers so that

they may become the determiners of their future and their

own development. A key strategy towards the future of a

pedagogy of the liberated is developmental appraisal - a

tool which enables a critique of teachers to assist them

objectively to identify their strengths and weaknesses so

as to become better at their professional craft and


This kind of appraisal will be paralleled by the crack

unit, recently announced, to focus on dysfunctional high

schools. Please note that this unit is a far cry from the

peculiar and discredited ``gogga'' [small insect] system of

apartheid inspectors, whose reports often depended on how

much they were entertained and feted in the schools. We are

serious about our education system, we are serious about

the quality and role of our teachers in that system. We

shall, therefore, not play war games with it. We shall not

party-politicise it and compel our teachers to protest.

Zandspruit must please not ask for my allegiance.
14 March 2000                                 Page 80 of 346

The education of our children is not a political football.

Our teachers are not a political playground. Against the

onslaught of past political shenanigans and skulduggery,

they have upheld the little honour they could salvage of

their profession. We place our recognition of this on

record and call upon them to walk that proverbial extra

mile with this Government as we reclaim and raise, in

consultation with them and their unions, their professional


I just want to comment on the speech made by Mr Ellis. We

are all aware, of course, that the experts of apartheid

devised the most vicious system of social engineering.

During the apartheid era some members of the DP slept

cosily in bed with apartheid, so much so that they even

failed to wake up and see that this country had changed,

that a new revolution was blowing through the corridors of

power. [Applause.] That is why the hon Ellis suspects the

ANC-led Government of doing the same. I say to Mr Ellis,

no, he is wrong. Mr Ellis must wake up.

Mr M J ELLIS: I am wide awake.

The DEPUTY MINISTER: Chairperson, he must remember that
14 March 2000                                 Page 81 of 346

each and every policy we have passed has been as a result

of a consultative process. We have spoken to parents,

educators, learners, business and religious organisations,

and we have had public hearings of which we have been part.

He comes here and tells us about social engineering, which

implies that there is a secret agenda somewhere, that there

are the activities in which we engage secretly and in

private, without any transparency whatsoever. But, he is my

witness that the opposite is the truth.

We have empowered our people, now more than ever before. We

have empowered parents, especially through the South

African Schools Act. The DP's jeremiads have become quite a

mantra, quite a bore to say the very least. Mr Ellis reads

a litany of problems in the schools. He is, obviously, a

prophet of doom.

Mr M J ELLIS: Not at all.

The DEPUTY MINISTER: Chairperson, has Mr Ellis heard about

the positive steps we have taken to address some of these

challenges that he is talking about? Has he heard about

Tirisano, for instance, and the five programmes that are

going to be implemented? Has he heard about the ongoing
14 March 2000                                 Page 82 of 346

course campaign which is designed to restore the culture of

learning and teaching in our country? One cannot restore a

culture in one or two days, not even in 10 years. It is a

process, it is not an event. Mr Ellis, please wake up!


Has Mr Ellis heard about the education ``izinkundla''

``Makgotla'' [forums] that we are holding in a number of

communities where we invite all people interested in

education. We invite communities, not only the educators,

the learners, district officials, which, of course we do,

not only MECs and not only business, but we also invite

religious organisations, traditional leaders and everybody

else, in other words, to make education once and for all

the most important agenda for the people of this country.


Because the Government believes in democracy, it wants

people to participate. Has Mr Ellis heard about all these

initiatives? I am sorry, I do not think so. Inspectors and

district officials are very much part of these very

exciting initiatives that we have undertaken in order to

ensure, as the Minister has said, that there is hope for

our children. There is hope for our people, especially as
14 March 2000                                 Page 83 of 346

far as education is concerned.

On this day, in the debate on one of the most critical

Votes, it is only appropriate that we salute good and

dedicated teachers as heroes and heroines, as patriots par

excellence. [Applause.]

Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, hon Ministers and members, the

future of our nation depends very much on the quality of

education our children receive. Education has once again

received the lion's share of Government spending, that is

R50,7 billion, which is an indication that our present

Government acknowledges the importance of a quality

education for each child.

The Budget has highlighted certain major areas of

concentration for empowerment in education. A key focus

will be to restore the culture of learning and teaching

within our education institutions, and we commend that. An

important factor in this regard will be to provide for the

professional development of teachers. We welcome the

Minister's call, earlier this year, to experienced

mathematics and science teachers to return to the teaching

profession. There is a serious shortage of science and
14 March 2000                                 Page 84 of 346

maths teachers in our schools. The poor matric results of

last year are worrying, but the ACDP commends all those

teachers who, under difficult circumstances, taught their

pupils diligently every day.

The promotion of the culture of learning and teaching is a

noble ethos and should be supported by all of us. As for

the issue of discipline, the ACDP still believes that

corporal correction should be brought back into our

education system. [Interjections.] The ACDP also

congratulates and commends the thousands of parents who

have registered with the Department of Education to home-

school their children. Home schooling is a growing and

successful educational phenomenon in South Africa. Home

schools are producing excellent academic results, and the

problems experienced in some of our state schools, such as

vandalism, alcohol abuse by teachers and pupils during

school hours, teenage pregnancy and promiscuity, are not

problems faced in our home schools.

This Government is the first government to have legalised

home schooling, and we also hope that the Government will

make it easier for parents to home-school their children.
14 March 2000                                 Page 85 of 346

Dr P W A MULDER: Mnr die Voorsitter, die vraag is, hoe

belangrik is onderwys vir Suid-Afrika se toekoms? President

Mbeki praat oor die Afrika-renaissance en dat hierdie eeu

Afrika se eeu moet word. Die VF sê as onderwys in Suid-

Afrika misluk, gaan Suid-Afrika in die toekoms misluk, en

as Suid-Afrika misluk, sal daar geen Afrika-renaissance

wees nie. Nou is die vraag, wat moet Suid-Afrika doen om

nie te misluk nie? Wat moet ons doen om op tegnologiese

gebied nie verder agter te raak nie?

Die antwoord, sê ek, is dat ons beter moet presteer in

natuurwetenskappe. Ons leef in 'n wêreld van satelliete,

rekenaars en moderne digitale tegnologie. In Europa en

Amerika word die navorsing en kennis op hierdie terreine

binne enkele maande verdubbel. Feit is, slegs ongeveer

20 000 van die land se matrikulante het verlede jaar

wiskunde en natuur- en skeikunde met

matrikulasievrystelling geslaag. Dit is 4% van die totaal.

Hieruit word geskat dat ongeveer maar 3 000 swart studente

is. Dit is 'n halwe persentasiepunt van alle matrikulante.

President Mbeki kla dat daar so min swart ingenieurs en

swart natuurwetenskaplikes in Suid-Afrika is. Hy noem dit

as 'n voorbeeld van rassisme. Volgens ANC-propaganda is die
14 March 2000                                 Page 86 of 346

rede eenvoudig apartheid en die destydse bantoe-onderwys.

Dit is egter nie so eenvoudig nie. Agb lede kan maar na

dieselfde tendense in Afrika gaan kyk, waar daar geen

bantoe-onderwys was nie.

Ek het hier die syfers van die persentasie wit, bruin,

Indiër- en swart kandidate wat van die sestigerjare tot die

negentigerjare met matrikulasievrystelling geslaag het.

Hierdie syfer, veral as ek na die swart syfer vir

natuurwetenskaplike vakke kyk, daal nog steeds. Nou sê die

VF die antwoord lê by moedertaalonderrig. Hiermee maak ek

nie 'n politieke stelling of probeer goedkoop VF-politiek

aan agb lede verkoop nie; ek maak 'n goed nagevorste

onderwysstelling. Om 'n abstrakte vak soos wiskunde en

natuurwetenskap in 'n tweede of derde taal aan studente te

probeer verduidelik, móét lei tot swak prestasie.

Ek daag die Minister en die onderwysowerhede uit om my met

'n eksperiment verkeerd te bewys. Kom ons neem vir die doel

van die eksperiment 'n groep Zulu- of Sothosprekende

studente en bied vir hulle wiskunde en wetenskap in hulle

moedertaal aan tot in matriek - dit is tot by graad 12 - en

dan vergelyk ons hierdie studente se resultate met 'n

kontrolegroep wat in Engels, wat meestal hulle tweede en
14 March 2000                                 Page 87 of 346

derde taal is, onderrig ontvang, en dan kyk ons waar eindig

ons met die eksperiment.

Japan domineer die Ooste op tegnologiese en ekonomiese

gebied. So domineer Duitsland Europa op tegnologiese en

ekonomiese gebied. Ek het van daardie universiteite en

skole besoek. Hulle studente word deur middel van Duits of

Japannees, hul moedertaal, onderrig. Daar is nie sprake dat

hulle studente deur middel van Engels of enige ander taal

onderrig word nie, en hulle studente presteer baie goed in

abstrakte vakke soos wiskunde en natuurwetenskap.

Waarom is ons dan so behep met Engels as onderrigtaal? Daar

is 'n groot verskil tussen om Engels as 'n onderrigtaal,

oftewel ``language of instruction'' te gebruik en om Engels

net as 'n vak te neem. Ek het Engels as vak geneem en ek

glo dit is baie belangrik. [Tussenwerpsels.] Ek het egter

my studie tot op doktorale vlak in Suid-Afrika in Afrikaans

voltooi. Hierdie kombinasie het dit vir my moontlik gemaak

om met na-doktorale studie in Amerika voort te gaan.

Agb lede kan 'n bietjie probeer om met Engels by 'n Duitse

universiteit te gaan inskryf. Hulle gaan 'n mens eers 'n

taalkursus in Duits laat voltooi voor hulle jou gaan
14 March 2000                                 Page 88 of 346

toelaat. Ons kort meer wiskunde- en

natuurwetenskaponderwysers in Suid-Afrika. As ons met die

wêreld wil meeding, kort ons veral baie meer swart

wiskunde- en natuurwetenskaponderwysers. Sonder

moedertaalonderrig in hierdie vakke gaan ons nie slaag nie.

Ek wil tog die Minister gelukwens dat hy hierdie dilemma

besef en prof Michael Kahn van die Universiteit van

Kaapstad aangestel het om hierdie probleme te ondersoek.

Uit prof Kahn se eerste reaksies wil dit ook voorkom asof

hy die argument oor moedertaalonderwys begryp. Ons sal

vorentoe moet sien of hy die probleem op hierdie wyse gaan


Voor ek die Minister egter te gou prys, wil ek oor die

universiteite praat, en dan veral oor Afrikaanse

universiteite. Dieselfde argumente as wat ek hierbo genoem

het, geld ook daar. Die Minister se uitspraak hieroor en

oor die taal van onderrig bekommer ons. Hy skuil tans agter

kortsigtige Afrikaanse rektore wat allerlei verskonings

uitdink waarom Afrikaans nie belangrik op universiteitsvlak

is nie.

Die formule van hierdie Minister se departement waarvolgens
14 March 2000                                 Page 89 of 346

universiteite gesubsidieer word, werk hoofsaaklik met

getalle; hoe meer studente, hoe meer geld kry die

universiteit. Deur nou Afrikaans ál meer af te skaal ten

gunste van Engels, kry hierdie universiteite meer studente

en meer en meer geld van die staat. As hierdie proses met

die huidige getalle kinders op skool voortgaan, sal daar

oor 15 jaar geen Afrikaanse universiteite wees nie.

Hierdie is nie 'n rasseargument nie. Die meerderheid

Afrikaanssprekendes in Suid-Afrika is tans reeds swart, dit

nou volgens die ANC se definisie. As die Minister en die

Regering eerlik is dat ander tale en Afrikaans belangrik

is, moet daar aanpassings in die subsidieformule kom. Die

formule moet 'n mens nie penaliseer omdat jy in Afrikaans

doseer nie. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans

speech follows.)

[Dr P W A MULDER: Mr Chairperson, the question is, how

important is education for South Africa's future? President

Mbeki talks about the African renaissance and that this

century must be Africa's century. The FF says that if

education in South Africa fails, South Africa will fail in

the future, and if South Africa fails, there will be no

African renaissance. Now the question is, what must South
14 March 2000                                 Page 90 of 346

Africa do to avoid failure? What must we do to avoid

falling further behind in the arena of technology?

I say that the answer is that we must perform better in the

natural sciences. We live in a world of satellites,

computers and modern digital technology. In Europe and

America the research and knowledge in these areas double in

a matter of months. The fact is that last year only

approximately 20 000 of the country's matriculants passed

maths and physical science and chemistry with a

matriculation exemption. That is 4% of the total. It is

estimated that of these only approximately 3 000 are black

students. That is half a percentage point of all


President Mbeki is complaining that there are so few black

engineers and black scientists in South Africa. He mentions

it as an example of racism. According to ANC propaganda the

reason is simply apartheid and the then Bantu education.

However, it is not that simple. Hon members can look at the

same trend in Africa, where there has been no Bantu


I have the figures here, from the sixties to the nineties,
14 March 2000                                 Page 91 of 346

of the percentage of white, brown, Indian and black

candidates who passed with a matriculation exemption. This

figure, particularly if I look at the black figure for

science subjects, is still dropping. The FF now says that

the answer lies in mother-tongue education. In doing so I

am not making a political statement or trying to sell hon

members cheap FF politics; I am making a well-researched

education statement. To try to explain abstract subjects

like mathematics and physical science to students in a

second or third language, must lead to poor performance.

I challenge the Minister and the education authorities to

prove me wrong by way of an experiment. For the purposes of

the experiment let us take a group of Zulu or Sotho-

speaking students and offer them maths and science in their

mother tongue until matric - that is to Grade 12 - and then

compare these students' results with those of a control

group who receive instruction in English, which is mostly

their second and third language, and then let us see the

outcome of that experiment.

Japan dominates the East in the technological and economic

arena. In the same way Germany dominates Europe in the

technological and economic arena. I have visited some of
14 March 2000                                 Page 92 of 346

those universities and schools. Their students are taught

in German or Japanese, their mother tongue. There is no

question of their students being taught in English or any

other language, and their students perform very well in

abstract subjects such as maths and physical science.

Why then are we so obsessed with English as the language of

instruction? There is a big difference between using

English as a language of instruction and merely taking

English as a subject. I took English as a subject and I

believe that it is very important. [Interjections.]

However, I completed my studies to a doctoral level in

South Africa in Afrikaans. This combination made it

possible for me to continue with post-doctoral studies in


Hon members are welcome to try to enrol in a German

university with English. They will first make one complete

a language course in German before they will admit one. We

need more mathematics and physical science teachers in

South Africa. If we want to compete with the world, we need

many more black mathematics and natural science teachers in

particular. Without mother-tongue education in these

subjects we are not going to succeed.
14 March 2000                                 Page 93 of 346

I would still like to congratulate the Minister on the fact

that he realises this dilemma and has appointed Prof

Michael Kahn from the University of Cape Town to

investigate these problems. From Prof Kahn's initial

reactions it would also appear that he understands the

argument for mother-tongue education. In future we will

have to see whether he is going to solve the problem in

this way.

However, before I praise the Minister too quickly, I would

like to talk about the universities, and about Afrikaans

universities in particular. The same arguments that I

mentioned above are valid there as well. The Minister's

statement in this regard and about the language of

instruction concerns us. He is currently hiding behind

short-sighted Afrikaans rectors who are devising all manner

of excuses why Afrikaans is not important at university


This Minister's department's formula in terms of which

universities are subsidised, deals primarily with numbers;

if there are more students the university receives more

money. By now scaling Afrikaans down to an increasing

extent in favour of English, these universities are gaining
14 March 2000                                  Page 94 of 346

more students and more and more money from the state. If

this process continues with the current number of children

at school, in 15 years there will be no Afrikaans


This is not a racial argument. The majority of Afrikaans

speakers in South Africa are currently already black, and

that is in terms of the ANC's definition. If the Minister

and the Government are sincere about other languages and

Afrikaans being important, there have to be adjustments in

the subsidy formula. The formula should not penalise one

for lecturing in Afrikaans. [Time expired.]]

Mr R P Z VAN DEN HEEVER: Chairperson, the address of our

Minister of Education, Prof Kader Asmal, was like the

breath of fresh air he has introduced in education since

assuming his term of office in June last year. I want to

pledge to the Minister, in the first place, our support as

members of the ANC study group on education in his quest to

create a viable education system for the 21st century. It

was in this spirit that we urged the Portfolio Committee on

Education to undertake a programme of study tours to our

most poverty-stricken provinces so that we can support his

call of action in respect of making education in the
14 March 2000                                 Page 95 of 346

provinces work.

The Minister's commitment to breaking the back of

illiteracy has our fullest support. The hon Mr Mike Ellis

of the DP has unfortunately come to this podium today to

pontificate to us at length about the importance of

literacy. In the first place, he could not contain his

obvious glee at what he regards as the Minister's apparent

failure to eradicate illiteracy within one year, yet in the

only province where the DP controls education, the Western

Cape Province, there is a massive cut in the funds voted

for literacy and Abet.

So how can we take the hon Ellis seriously about appointing

a Deputy Minister for literacy when the DP themselves

cannot put their money where their mouth is in the Western

Cape by taking literacy as seriously as they claim to view

it. We regret that this once again reflects the different

and skewed focus of education in a province governed by the

New NP and the DP. [Interjections.]

It also comes as no surprise to us within the ANC that the

DP attacks the National Qualifications Framework. The DP

has never shared the ANC's vision of an integrated
14 March 2000                                 Page 96 of 346

education and training system, because they aspire towards

an elitist academic-based education system.

[Interjections.] The NQF forms the basis of our integrated

education and training system. [Interjections.] Problems

are bound to occur within the NQF from time to time, but we

would rather concentrate our efforts in addressing those

problems than abandoning our vision for an integrated

education and training system.

The Minister has also expressed himself very strongly

against racial arrogance and hard-necked linguistic and

cultural exclusivity. In this House, I have already

referred to the reference by the MEC of education in the

Western Cape, Ms Helen Zille, to Harold Cressy as a

predominantly Muslim school, where apparently, in her view,

Jewish students should not go, and Herzlia as a Jewish

school, which, in her view, apparently, Muslim students

should not be allowed to attend, and that is now well known

in the education debate. [Interjections.]

While the law provides for equitable and voluntary

religious observance at school, it is impossible to

describe a school, in terms of our law, in religious terms.

In general, therefore, there are no Muslim, Catholic,
14 March 2000                                 Page 97 of 346

Protestant, Hindu or Jewish schools in the Government

school system. The only exception is a small number of

public schools on private property owned by a religious

organisation. Despite Ms Helen Zille's profuse objections

and explanations about this matter, she still has to

explain how her policy works in practice. [Interjections.]

Does she have a list of Muslim, Jewish, Catholic and

Protestant schools to which she would refer students of

those particular faiths?

If this is her attitude towards religion, what, I ask, will

her attitude be towards race? What would she do if a white

child was referred to a special school in Guguletu? The

answer is clear; her mind is already geared in terms of the

racial and cultural stereotypes of apartheid. These are the

levels, for the hon Mr Ellis' information, to which

liberalism in the DP has sunk.

Mr M J ELLIS: [Inaudible.]

Mr R P Z VAN DEN HEEVER: The dividing line between what

they would like to believe is recognition of diversity as

opposed to racist practices has become very thin.

14 March 2000                                    Page 98 of 346

Mr M J ELLIS: You always talk rubbish, Reggie!


the member at the podium to have his say. Even if he is

speaking rubbish, it is his own. [Laughter.] You can speak

your rubbish when it is your turn to come to the podium.


Mr M J ELLIS: May I have another turn, Mr Chairman?


turn from me, sir. If you have had your turn, you have had

it. Please be seated. Continue with your speech, Mr Van den


Mnr R P Z VAN DEN HEEVER: Mnr Gaum van die Nuwe NP gaan uit

sy pad om 'n donker prentjie van die onderwys te skilder.

Ek het nie geweet die lewe in die nuwe Suid-Afrika is so

donker soos hy dit hier uitbeeld nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Wat

betref sy jeremiades oor die geld wat daar kwansuis nie is

vir die opleiding van skoolbeheerliggame nie, kan ek hom sê

hy soek daardie geld op die verkeerde plek. Die geld vir

die opleiding van skoolbeheerliggame moet hy in die

provinsiale begrotings gaan soek. Hy soek dus op die

verkeerde plek. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph
14 March 2000                                 Page 99 of 346


[Mr R P Z VAN DEN HEEVER: Mr Gaum of the New NP is going

out of his way to paint a sombre picture of education. I

did not know that life in the new South Africa was as dark

as he is portraying it here. [Interjections.] With regard

to his lamentations about the money which apparently does

not exist for the training of school governing bodies, I

can tell him that he is looking for that money in the wrong

place. He must look in the provincial budgets for the money

for the training of school governing bodies. Therefore, he

is looking in the wrong place.]

The hon Mr Gaum also complains about the fact that the

budget in real terms is less than before. Many people,

including experts on finance in this country who have no

connection with the ANC, will tell him that the issue is

not about more money, but about the building of systems and

the building of capacity. It is about how one uses that

money rather than how much it is. South Africa already

spends the greatest percentage of GDP in the world, on

education, and the hon member's appeal for more money

misses that point entirely.
14 March 2000                                  Page 100 of 346

Mr Gaum also complains about large classes and a shortage

of teachers. Mr Gaum should note that large classes are

more likely to be the result of a classroom shortage than a

teacher shortage. We have more teachers than classrooms in

this country. We need more classrooms, and merely to say

that we need more teachers misses the point.

In my constituency, in the Great Karoo, the three high

schools in Beaufort West had the following results in last

year's matric examinations. The ex-Model C school in the

town, Hoërskool Sentraal, had a 100% pass rate. The school

in the coloured community, Hoërskool Bastiaanse, had a pass

rate of 82%. The school in the predominantly African

community, Mandlenkosi High School, had a pass rate of 75%.

Obviously, the spread of the results is a reflection of the

varying degrees of privilege and discrimination suffered by

schools as a result of the divide-and-rule policies of


However, upon further investigation, one will find that of

the three schools, the greatest improvement has been

brought about at Mandlenkosi High School, because the pass

rate at that school was around 50% in the past and the 75%

pass rate in 1999 constitutes an improvement of 25%. We are
14 March 2000                                  Page 101 of 346

grateful that the Western Cape MEC, Ms Zille, has

recognised that, in terms of her dealings with that school.

Regrettably, these improvements among disadvantaged schools

with regard to the matric results are seldom recognised by

the mainstream media and opposition parties.

If one carefully controls access to one's matric class, one

can ensure a high matric pass rate. If one takes only

clever kids at one's school, one will have a high matric

pass rate. If one only allows the really bright students to

do subjects on the Higher Grade, while insisting that

slower learners do subjects on the Standard Grade, then one

will have a higher pass rate. This is the kind of

engineering that very often takes place, and nobody notes

the clever sleight of hand in engineering these matric

results. And yet these matric results are always used to

bash the efforts of the Government at transformation.

This year's budget has been aligned with the first cycle of

Minister Asmal's five-year Tirisano plan. With regard to

public schools, attention will now be focused on school

effectiveness and teacher professionalism, building the

leadership and managerial capacities of school management

teams, increasing the supply of learner support materials,
14 March 2000                                Page 102 of 346

and on strengthening the role of governing bodies in school


Mr I S MFUNDISI: Mr Chairperson, hon members, education is

a two-way process which depends on mutual understanding and

co-operation among those involved in it - hence slogans

such as ``Education for Tirisano'' and ``Education for

Popagano'', which indicate reciprocity. Education can be

used for nation-building and for raising cultural

awareness. All these require resources of a human, material

and financial kind.

Some 7,2% is shown as an increase, while expenditure has

increased to 8,1% in the current budget for teachers. That

leaves the remuneration of teachers below the inflation

rate; and such decline in the expenditure on teachers leads

to low morale among them, and creates a threat to this

Tirisano project.

It is not acceptable to leave early childhood development

to philanthropists. Investment in early childhood

development, as proved elsewhere - and even in South Africa

- has a positive effect on the effectiveness of education

in general. The new admissions policy will see many
14 March 2000                                Page 103 of 346

youngsters without formal instruction, as early childhood

education will be the preserve of the well-heeled only.

A reduction from R7,6 billion to R6,2 billion, in respect

of higher education will hit the historically disadvantaged

institutions most. The whole matter will be further

exacerbated by the incorporation of colleges of education

in this sector. The National Student Financial Aid Scheme,

the acceptance of which was fast-tracked through Parliament

last year, should be helpful to deserving students as

intended, and not subject them to having to show proof of

admission. They should rather get an award on the basis of

their performance in Grade 12 midyear examinations and then

strive to get registration with a bursary in hand.

It sounds, however, too optimistic to hope to break the

back of illiteracy with reduced funds. In 1996 it was

estimated that there were some 12 million potential Abet

learners, and the fact that some Abet centres in some

provinces have been closed down with remuneration still

owed to some educators makes the whole issue more complex.

It can only be hoped that the skills development fund will

be utilised in this sector.
14 March 2000                                Page 104 of 346

The joint venture among the Education, Health and Welfare

departments in an effort to educate people about HIV/Aids

is welcome. However, it should not be limited to pupils in

Grade 5 to Grade 9 only. The Department of Education should

also have a special amount put aside for such campaigns. It

becomes regrettable when people in high places in education

are themselves reported as not being honest with their

partners and do not even use the condoms that they speak


The UCDP welcomes the introduction of the planning section

in the department and we hope that this will be cascaded to

the provinces. We also applaud the fact that educators

across the board will be trained in management skills.

Finally, while we applaud the enthusiasm of the Minister,

and his good intentions, we regret that disparities will

remain for some time. [Time expired.]

Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, education is the future. It

shapes the future of the individual, the community and the

nation. Without good, sound education there is just no

future to talk about. The Department of Education holds the

future for all of us and therefore deserves serious
14 March 2000                                Page 105 of 346

consideration and maximum support from all of us.

The Minister of Education has thrown everything he has into

this. In our communities there is an upheaval. Teachers are

naturally the first to discern and hear of it. They are

getting the message that only hard work from them can turn

the wheels of the revolution in education. That is non-


Just last week on Saturday in Sekhukhuneland I met people

from different parts of the province and all of them were

saying that for the first time they see their children

actually busy preparing at night. They are beginning to get

the message. Some, of course, are reacting out of fear,

which is unfortunate. A sense of dedication, work

satisfaction and fulfilment is what is expected of every

educator in the world.

The repeat of the shocking matriculation results, namely 1

036 high schools with a 80% to a 100% failure rate, was not

completely unexpected. Last year I pleaded that we should

have racial presentation of results. I want to repeat this

request. To work in national averages is ideal, but can be

completely misleading.
14 March 2000                                 Page 106 of 346

We also need a healthy learning environment. Clean schools

should not be a monopoly of a section of the population.

Last week I visited a school in Mpumalanga with broken

windows and a dirty and uninspiring environment. Of course,

this is common all over the country. Parents, teachers,

churches and education departments must change this. Giving

the school a face-lift will announce to educators and

pupils that change has come. Toilets, water and electricity

should be provided speedily.

The use of religious communities should not be ignored.

Education is a sensitive moral initiative or undertaking.

If churches do not participate in education, their task of

transforming society is made impossible. Schools become

sausage machines which produce products that society does

not want. Schools should be centres of excellence which are

co-creators with God.

Many visitors coming to our country are surprised that many

churches have closed their church schools, and they wonder

how we can ever build a country with no church schools. The

PAC will support this Vote. [Time expired.]

14 March 2000                                   Page 107 of 346

the next speaker, the hon Kgwele, is making his maiden

speech. Please give him the courtesy of the House.


Mr L M KGWELE: Chairperson, Deputy President and hon

members, in his reply to the debate on his state of the

nation address to Parliament, the President expressed the

direction which education should take and sent out the

challenge that teachers must teach, learners must learn and

managers must manage. As the ANC, we believe that that is

the fundamental reasonable expectation on which all other

educational success will depend.

Since the ANC-led Government came to power in 1994, it

began to tackle the mammoth task of education

transformation. It ensured that schools were open to all

and started moving towards equal spending on all students.

More money was spent on previously disadvantaged schools.

The principles of equity and access were, and continue to

be, dominant in our new policy formation.

The Education budgets, over the past few years, indicate

the consistent commitment of the ANC to eradicate the

legacy of apartheid education, and the legacy of inherited
14 March 2000                                Page 108 of 346

dysfunctional, poorly resourced and inefficiently managed

schools. The 2000-2001 Budget is not an exception in that

the growth of R1,9 million to a total of R51 billion

reaffirms the commitment of the ANC Government to the

provision of quality public education.

Although the prophets of doom on the left of the House

would wish us to believe otherwise, we are indeed

convinced, in the words of the President, that we are on

course. Yes, indeed we have begun to move away from the

past with conviction. Recent review committees appointed by

the Minister of Education also affirm that the people have

indeed entrusted governance to a party that is not only

responsible but also responsive to the challenges facing

our nation. As the ANC, we believe that regular evaluation,

monitoring and assessment of implementation processes are

imperative in an ever-changing education environment.

After the President sensitised the august House in his

state of the nation address, on 4 February 2000, about the

continued existence of racism in our society, I am tempted

at this point to examine whether racism does exist in our

schools today in the context of our democratic Constitution

and schooling policies. We have observed an unacceptable
14 March 2000                                   Page 109 of 346

phenomenon that, although the ANC Government has put in

place nonracial and progressive policies, racial separation

and discrimination still affect schools.

The ANC has always stood for the creation of a nonracial,

nonsexist and democratic society in which all South

Africans enjoy conditions of peace and dignity. We have

started to build a united nation, joining hands without

regard to race, colour or creed. Each of our communities is

free to express its linguistic and cultural identity and to

assume its equal place within our new nation.

Our country has ratified the International Covenant on

Civil and Political Rights of 23 March 1976 and the

Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial

Discrimination. As a member of Unesco, South Africa is also

bound not to tolerate practices that clash with the

declarations that we are committed to. The Human Rights

Commission deals with a number of complaints ranging from

discrimination, disciplinary measures, racial violence and

racial prejudice. The commission has found that efforts

aimed at eradicating racial discrimination have not

achieved the desired results, in part because learners

approach schools with the prejudices instilled in their
14 March 2000                                   Page 110 of 346

home environments, and the schools have no mechanisms to

challenge and stimulate the unlearning of deep-rooted

prejudices or to transform the learners.

As the ANC, we regard racism in schools not only as a

violation of the rights to equality, human dignity and

basic education, but as an affront to the values enshrined

in our Constitution. We invite fellow citizens to join the

struggle for the elimination and combating of

discrimination to ensure the coherent integrity of society

and the realisation of the national vision enshrined in our

Constitution. The determination to raise school

effectiveness and educator professionalism through the

Tirisano programme's new supervisory services that would

have the responsibility of conducting home school

evaluation, providing reports and offering advice on school

quality improvement will be vital in making our schools

work for our nation.

We the ANC welcome the investigation of alternatives to

corporal punishment commissioned by the Minister to

capacitate educators, school managers and school governing

bodies to deal effectively with issues of discipline. We

further commend the MEC for Education in Gauteng for
14 March 2000                                Page 111 of 346

initiatives taken to deal with the Yizo-Yizo level of ill-

discipline emerging in our schools.

I think that for the ACDP to request this democratic

Government to even consider home schooling is not an

informed act, given that parents do not have time to be

with learners all the time. Therefore this would definitely

sacrifice quality education. The call for the reinstatement

of corporal punishment is obviously not an informed one in

that the Minister has commissioned an investigation to look

at different forms of alternatives to corporal punishment.

In conclusion, we in the ANC wish to thank parents who

served in the first democratically elected school governing

bodies, seeing now that their term has come to an end. They

have made a profound contribution and laid a foundation. We

also recognise the new school governing bodies elections

that are being conducted in some of our provinces, and the

Northern Province is one of those provinces that are

leading in this regard. With 90% parent turnout, schools

are able to hold elections democratically. We wish to call

on all parents to take advantage of this democratic

opportunity by participating in the school governing body

elections and helping to shape the future of public
14 March 2000                                Page 112 of 346

education. [Applause.]

Dr L LUYT: Chairperson, hon Minister and members, I must

say that the Minister looks sporting today. I hope he has

been practising his marksmanship because I imagine that he

will be boom-booming everybody in his final words.


I am not going to repeat all the statistics he has heard,

as he most probably knows them all anyway. I going to

repeat one quote I said before: ``Education makes a people

easy to lead, but difficult to drive; easy to govern, but

impossible to enslave.'' These were the words of Henry

Baron Brougham.

Ronald Reagan vowed that he would get the United State

literate by having the schools raise their standards.

``Americans must learn physics and chemistry, mathematics

and English,'' he said. How true. South Africa has more

than its fair share of gifted pupils. Abraham Lincoln said,

and I quote: ``Four score and seven years ago, our fathers

brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in

liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are

created free and equal.'' Indeed, 1994 saw exactly the same
14 March 2000                                Page 113 of 346

occurrence. It is gratifying that the hon Minister Kader

Asmal has committed himself to the betterment of our

education. His strong stance on nonperformance must be

lauded. His undertaking to bring back qualified science and

maths teachers can also only be applauded.

Our nation will stand or fall on how well it is educated.

Education teaches us to discern between right and wrong,

education makes us responsible. The hon the Minister has a

mammoth task ahead of him, but he has fearlessly tackled

other problems in the past. He will be mindful of the fact

that matriculants of 2004 would all have had the same

opportunities and he will know that his part as Minister of

Education is to shape a better future.

As a nation, we are committed to equality, and therefore,

we have to support the hon Minister wholeheartedly in his

quest to create a civilised youth - an educated youth.

Therefore, we must stop the bickering and, shoulder to

shoulder, work for our children. That should be our

contribution to posterity. Milton in On his Blindness said,

``They also serve who only stand and wait.'' We can also

serve in our little way. The challenges are severe and

extend well beyond racial and language barriers. Therefore,
14 March 2000                                Page 114 of 346

young minds must be nurtured and shaped, through education.

The notion that our children will lose something if another

is afforded the same opportunities is fallacious, to say

the least. Not every school leaver is necessarily fit to

receive a university education. Quite the majority,

certainly, is fit to attend technikons. I would therefore

suggest that practical students who excel in their areas of

endeavour, receive degrees instead of diplomas. That would

lure more would-be students to technikons and they would

know that their labours will be rewarded in the right way.

Education will make our country self-sufficient in

knowledge, and give us the opportunity to earn the respect

of the world; in fact, demand the respect of the world. An

educated nation is a responsible nation. An educated nation

is an industrious nation. An educated nation is a free

nation, a globally free nation. An educated nation sustains

its country. Education is not a gift to be bestowed on a

few. It is a gift to all those who want to receive it. The

FA supports this Vote.

Miss S RAJBALLY: Mr Chairperson, Deputy President,

Ministers, the MF wants to congratulate, especially, the
14 March 2000                                Page 115 of 346

Minister of Education, Prof Kader Asmal, on his tremendous

hard work in restoring and transforming the education

system in various ways, especially for those that were

deprived of the privileges in the past. At the same time,

may I take this opportunity in congratulating the hon

member Kgwele on his maiden speech. Well done!

Effective educational reforms must be accompanied by

meaningful political changes. Therefore, at this point in

time in South Africa, education ought to be the first

financial priority of the Government. Mere organisational

changes or simply obtaining more funding for education at

primary, secondary and tertiary level, will not, in

themselves, resolve the crisis we are burdened with.

To sustain the education system we require the commitment

of all stakeholders and we require a measure of sacrifice

from all individuals who are involved in education. Of

course, our unrealistic expectations must not be imposed on

the renewal of our education system. The SA Schools Act of

1996 provides that education is financed on an equitable

and nonracial basis.

However, in KwaZulu-Natal, especially in the low
14 March 2000                                Page 116 of 346

socioeconomic areas like Phoenix, subsidies allocated to

schools were drastically low, based on the contention that

ex-House of Delegates schools in previously predominantly

Indian areas are equivalent to Model C schools. This

treatment has created a shabby impression that poor people

do not exist in areas like Phoenix and in the Indian

community. Backlogs in education must be mediated with

excellent and realistic managerial strategies. Investment

in education is an investment in the nation's future.

In establishing a new democratic education system, care

must be taken not to dismantle those parts of our education

system that are functioning effectively. South Africa

cannot afford to lose quality education that has already

been attained through continued social and economic

development. Regional variations within a national

population, which is not carefully captured in data, can

adversely affect the allocation of funds. That may result

in unequal access to educational opportunities. Quality

education which meets the needs of the general society and

the individual must be viewed as human resource

development, which provides the potential for superior work

competence and stimulates economic productivity, though

this may not be realised exclusively in practice.
14 March 2000                                Page 117 of 346

In South Africa we have a growing surplus of poorly

educated workers who lack an adequate literacy base for

formal training in skills that are required in the labour

market. At present illiteracy is being tackled at grass-

roots level by the Government. However, one must bear in

mind that literacy is not a quick-fix method that

automatically leads to increased productivity and

improvement in people's quality of life. In South Africa

illiteracy reflects the gap between the rich and the poor,

the haves and the have-nots, which originated from the

apartheid education. The point is that people are

illiterate because they are poor and disadvantaged.

The attainment of literacy does not necessary lead to

economic improvement of the individual or the nation, but

where literacy is taught effectively it has the profound

long-term benefit of individual empowerment. Vocational

training in schools is absolutely necessary, as it provides

scope for occupational choice and flexible responses to

structural and technical changes during the individual

working life. However, on-the-job training, whether

privately or publicly funded, appears to be cheaper and

more effective than institution-based vocational training,

as equipment and salaries in these specialised institutions
14 March 2000                                 Page 118 of 346

prove to be expensive. The fragmented and unequal nature of

education and training has had negative effects on the

development of the society and the economy.

The Government is accountable for individuals with special

needs in education and training. Learners with special

educational needs have suffered a legacy of unjustifiable

inequalities of various kinds in the past. The Government's

challenge is to create a policy framework that develops

these individuals both socially and economically. [Time


Mrs D G NHLENGETHWA: Chairperson, Deputy President, hon

Minister of Education, the ANC Government is quite aware of

all the problems and backlogs faced by our people. The

Department of Education is on board, having a programme of

action to redress the inequality in education provision and

to transform the system of education that we inherited from

apartheid. The ANC, since the days of the Freedom Charter,

with the new Constitution and now by means of its Acts, has

not changed. It is still maintaining its position of

bringing changes for a better life for all. The doors of

learning are open to everyone, to ensure the survival of

the people and not of the fittest.
14 March 2000                                Page 119 of 346

The budget process and the public finance management

framework has also been reformed to enable improved service

delivery. The central focus of budgetary reforms is the

need for an integrated planning framework that links plans,

priorities, budgets and implementation targets. For the

first time in the history of education in South Africa the

Department of Education has a comprehensive database of

every school building in order to service and provide

available equipment and resources to each and every school

in the country.

The President in one of his speeches has identified the

following provinces as the poorest of the poor, most of

which have rural schools: the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal,

the Northern Province and Mpumalanga. The Portfolio

Committee on Education recently paid a visit to KwaZulu-

Natal and the Eastern Cape.

Zombili lezi fundazwe, iKomiti lezeMfundo elahamba laya

kozivakashela, zinezikole eziningi ezisemaphandleni.

Izakhiwo zezikole ziyizakhiwo zodaka. Akunamanzi kulezi

zikole eziningi. Izindlu zangasese azikho futhi ugesi kanye

nomtapo wezincwadi akukho. Izingane zihamba amabanga amade

ukuya esikoleni. Izinga lokufunda nelokuphatha liphansi
14 March 2000                                Page 120 of 346

ngoba lezi ndawo zisemaphandleni. Nanoma kunjalo, ezinye

izikole ziyakwazi ukwenza ukuthi kufundwe, kuthi izinga

lokuphatha libe sesimweni esifanele kanti nelokuphumelela

kwabafundi libe kumaphesenti aphezulu. (Translation of Zulu

paragraph follows.)

[The two provinces that were visited by the education

committee have many schools in the rural areas. The schools

are built of mud. Most of them have no water. They have no

toilets and neither do they have electricity and libraries.

Students walk long distances to go to these schools. The

levels of learning and administration are low because they

are situated in the rural areas. However, some schools are

able to make learning take place and to improve the level

of administration as well as the percentage of students


I am mentioning all these problems to show that the ANC is

aware of all its functions.


please pay attention. Hon Aucamp, you will have your time

at the podium, sir. Please continue, hon member.
14 March 2000                                Page 121 of 346

Mrs D G NHLENGETHWA: I am going to briefly mention the

following provinces in respect of how many schools have

been built and how many still have to be built. In Gauteng,

272 new classrooms have been built and 3 000 are still to

be built. In the Western Cape, 9 schools have been built

and 32 still need to be built. In the Free State, 138

classrooms have been built and 16 new schools have to be

built. In KwaZulu-Natal 1 007 classrooms need to be built,

62 new schools have been built and 133 classrooms have been

built and added to existing schools. In the Eastern Cape 62

classrooms need to be built and 7 have been built. In the

Northern Cape 4 new schools have been built. In Mpumalanga

16 new schools have been built and in North West 7 new

schools have been built. I would like to appeal to the

youth and students of this country not to vandalise the


The rate and state of illiteracy in our country rests

squarely on the shoulders of the previous regime of the NP.

For, as long as we have this endemic situation, it will

always be traced back to the New NP, whether they like it

or not. The responsibility for illiteracy is on their

14 March 2000                                Page 122 of 346

The adult basic education programme is the mechanism

through which the ANC-led Government is working towards

eradicating this legacy of apartheid. Obviously, liberation

and democracy, which were overdue for so long, have

accumulated interest. All of us have a responsibility to

harness this initiative. The programme outlined in the

five-year plan Tirisano, is the tool in our hands to deal

with the problem and to break the back of illiteracy

amongst our adults and the youth of this country.

A target of 154 000 learners in the state Abet centres was

exceeded in 1998. Provision for Abet finances is catered

for under Programme 3 in the Budget, which deals with

general education and training. Those who could not finish

school are given an opportunity to reassert themselves and

to undertake this noble, basic right enshrined in our


Some sterling work has been achieved through the dedication

of public-private partnerships. We have seen teachers going

an extra mile to help our grown-ups and those whose

schooling was interrupted by, amongst others, enslavement

on farms and inaccessibility of schools as a result of the

school being out of reach of the people. I still believe
14 March 2000                                Page 123 of 346

and hope that all of us will help. Experience is the mother

of wisdom.

I would like to commend other bodies like Telkom who, by

the end of 1998, had helped more than 2 400 employees to

successfully complete their adult basic education

programme. For the first time, these graduates were able to

read, write and understand basic mathematics. We also

commend other private and public companies for their

contribution by assisting their employees in the

development of their characters. We hope others will still

follow. I also stand here to welcome the Abet Bill that is

envisaged, because it is never too late to learn.

I will be failing in my duty if I do not congratulate the

Minister of Finance on the hard work he has done. He got

the recipe from the people, taking into account their

demands. He then baked the big cake, the national Budget.

He had to slice and share it according to the needs and

hunger of the departments. I also congratulate the Minister

of Education for accepting his slice of cake from the

Minister of Finance and sharing it with the people in the

14 March 2000                                Page 124 of 346

Besiqala ukukubona lokho. KuHulumeni wangaphambilini

besithola izimvuthu nje zalesi sinkwa. [Ihlombe.] [It was

the first time that we saw it. During the previous regime

we only received the crumbs of this bread. [Applause.]]

Mr C AUCAMP: Chairperson, my sympathy goes to the Minister.

He has inherited a portfolio that is really in a mess, and

nobody can argue that he is not putting all his energy, and

that is quite a lot, into his new mission. He has also

shown his versatility today. Now he is dressed like Benni

McCarthy, yet this morning he was Father Kader. [Laughter.]

A more realistic approach towards the introduction of

Curriculum 2005 is one of the positive signs from the

Minister. The same applies to the termination of the

redeployment policy and the re-employment of retrenched

teachers with skill and experience. The AEB supports every

effort to uplift the standard of education in South Africa.

In this regard I want to make an appeal for a larger state

contribution to special schools for the disabled. A well-

known school of this kind in Pretoria covers only 30% of

its budget through state funding, and 70% comes from the

parents and teachers themselves.
14 March 2000                                Page 125 of 346

The Minister underlined in his speech this morning ``the

challenge to build an educational system for a democratic

society''. He briefly referred to the diversity of our

society, but he left it there. I want to focus on one

crucial aspect of education in a diverse society, and that

is the right of language, cultural and religious

communities to educational institutions which reflect the

ethos of such communities and - very important - are funded

by the state. Yes, like the nagging widow before the judge

in the parable in the Bible, I will not stop until justice

has been done in this regard.

Several studies prove that as much as the right to private

property is number one on the list of individual rights,

education according to the choice of parents is number one

on the more collective priority list. Our children do not

belong to the state, that is an outdated Marxist view. Our

children belong to God and the parents are the number one


Onderwys het nie sy oorsprong by die staat nie, maar by die

ouerhuis. Die staat het 'n gedelegeerde bevoegdheid. Elke

kind het die basiese reg op onderwys in ooreenstemming met

die religieus-kulturele raamwerk van sy ouerhuis, binne die
14 March 2000                                Page 126 of 346

perke van die Handves van Menseregte. Dit word wêreldwyd

erken. Die VN se deklarasie, die EU se resolusies en selfs

die African Charter, wat deur hierdie Parlement bekragtig

is, erken hierdie basiese reg, sonder die diskriminerende

byvoegsel van ons artikel 29(3): `` ... at their own


Elke enkele ouer in Suid-Afrika is geregtig op sy

regverdige aandeel uit belastinggeld vir die opvoeding van

sy kinders. Waarom word hierdie reg hom ontneem die oomblik

as hy vra dat sy kind in ooreenstemming met sy

lewenswaardes onderrig moet word? Wat het in Suid-Afrika

gebeur? Geleidelik, stelselmatig en ongemerk soos die pes

wat in die donker wandel, is die inspraak van ouers op die

opvoeding van hulle kinders geërodeer. Die 1993-grondwet

het bestuursliggame nog beskou as mede-indiensnemers van

onderwysers. Die Gautengse onderwyswetgewing van 1995 het

reeds hulle posisie verswak deur aan die LUR die mag te gee

om 'n bestuursliggaam tot stand te bring of te ontbind.

Die finale teks van die 1996-Grondwet het die beskermende

bepalings van artikel 247(1) van die 1993-grondwet oor

bestuursliggame totaal weggelaat en ook die belangrike

moedertaalbepaling onderhewig gemaak aan ``where
14 March 2000                                Page 127 of 346

possible''. Die Suid-Afrikaanse Skolewet van 1996 het

beslag gelê op die eiendom van die ouergemeenskap. Die

Gautengse regulasies van 1997 het van die beheerliggame

ondergeskikte strukture gemaak. Die Wysigingswet op

Onderwyswette van verlede jaar is ook bekend in dié


Die leerplanne wat van staatsweë op alle kinders in

staatskole afgedwing word, kom eintlik neer op niks minder

nie as totalitêre, kulturele en religieuse imperialisme.

Dieselfde agb Minister het drie weke gelede in hierdie Huis

gesê uitgediende ideologieë soos die Christelik nasionale

moet uit die onderwys wyk, want dit is uit pas met die New

Age. Onderwys geskied nie in 'n atmosfeer vry van

ideologiese voorkeure nie. Inteendeel, dit word gedra deur

'n nuwe - en vir ons onaanvaarbare - ideologie van die

Übermensch op die troon.

Ons kinders is ons kosbaarste aardse besitting, die duurste

pand aan ons toevertrou. Die jongste van my vyf kinders het

verlede jaar haar skoolopleiding voltooi aan 'n staatskool.

Ek het persoonlik 22 jaar lank gedien in bestuursliggame

van staatskole en die geleidelike erosie van ouerinspraak

aan eie lyf ervaar. My eerste kleinkind moet volgende jaar
14 March 2000                                Page 128 of 346

skool toe. Ek het nie die vrymoedigheid om oor te lewer aan

die toenemende kulturele en religieuse imperialisme van die

staatskoolbestel nie. Wat is my alternatief? Ja, artikel

29(3) van die Grondwet maak pragtig voorsiening vir private

skole, en daarmee saam die onbillike en onregverdige

verbeurdverklaring van daardie kind se aanspraak op sy

deeltjie van mnr Manuel se Begroting.

Gehalteonderwys, onderwys vry van diskriminasie wat voldoen

aan alle internasionale standaarde, maar ook onderwys in

die religious-kulturele etos van die ouerhuis, is die heel

eerste prioriteit op die lys van internasionaal erkende

minderheidsregte waarvoor die AEB en ander geesgenote ons

beywer. Ons sal nie rus voor hierdie reg ons nie gegun word

nie. Ons sal hierdie saak toenemend internasionaliseer. As

68 000 Belge in Duitsland hul eie onderwysdepartement, eie

inspekteurs en eie leerplanne het, en ten volle deur die

staat gesubsidieer word, waarom het die Afrikaner en ander

kultuurgemeenskappe in Suid-Afrika dit nie ook nie?

Ons steun die toewysing aan onderwys uit die Begroting. Ons

steun die Regering en die Minister in die massiewe

opheffingstaak van die onderwys, maar ons stem nie saam met

die aanwending van belastinggeld vir die New Age-ideologie
14 March 2000                                Page 129 of 346

nie. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs


[Education does not have its origin in the state, but in

the parental home. The state has a delegated authority.

Each child has the basic right to education in accordance

with the religious-cultural framework of his parental home,

within the limits of the Bill of Rights. This is

acknowledged world-wide. The UN's declaration, the EU's

resolutions and even the African Charter, which has been

ratified by this Parliament, acknowledge this basic right,

without the discriminatory addition of our section 29(3):

... ``at their own expense''.

Every such parent in South Africa is entitled to their fair

share of tax money for the education of their children. Why

are they being deprived of this right the moment they ask

that their child be educated in accordance with their

values? What has happened in South Africa? Gradually,

systematically and undetected, like the plague roaming the

darkness, the say of parents in the education of their

children has been eroded. The 1993 Constitution still

considered management bodies as being fellow employers of

teachers. In Gauteng legislation relating to education of
14 March 2000                                Page 130 of 346

1995 already weakened their position by furnishing the MEC

with the power to bring a management body to a halt or to

dissolve it.

The final text of the 1996 Constitution completely omitted

the protective provisions of section 247(1) of the 1993

constitution concerning management bodies, and the

important provision relating to mother-tongue education was

made subject to ``where possible''. The South African

Schools Act of 1996 confiscated the property of the parent

community. The Gauteng regulations of 1997 changed the

controlling bodies into subordinate structures. The

Education Laws Amendment Act of last year is also well-

known in this respect.

The curriculums that are forced on all children in state

schools by the state in fact amount to no less than

totalitarian, cultural and religious imperialism. The same

hon Minister said in this House three weeks ago that

obsolete ideologies such as the Christian national ideology

should leave education, as it is out of tune with the New

Age. Education does not take place in an atmosphere free of

ideological preferences. On the contrary, it is supported

by a new - and to us unacceptable - ideology of the
14 March 2000                                Page 131 of 346

Übermensch on the throne.

Our children are our most precious earthly possession, the

most costly pledge that we have been entrusted with. The

youngest of my five children last year completed her school

training at a state school. I personally served on the

management bodies of state schools for 22 years and

experienced the gradual erosion of the parental say at

first hand. My first grandchild must go to school next

year. I do not feel free to give in to the increasing

cultural and religious imperialism of the state school

dispensation. What are my alternatives? Yes, section 29(3)

of the Constitution beautifully provides for private

schools, and with that the unfair and unjust forfeiture of

that child's claim to his part of Mr Manuel's Budget.

Quality education, education free of discrimination, which

complies with international standards, but also education

in the religious-cultural ethos of the parental home, is

the very first priority on the list of internationally

acknowledged minority rights, which the AEB and other like-

minded people pursue. We will not rest until we are granted

this right. We will progressively internationalise this

matter. If 68 000 Belgians in Germany could have their own
14 March 2000                                  Page 132 of 346

department of education, their own inspectors and their own

curriculums, and be fully subsidised by the state, why do

the Afrikaners and other cultural groups in South Africa

not have it as well?

We support the allocation to education in the Budget. We

support the Government and the Minister in the massive task

of uplifting education, but we do not agree with the use of

taxpayers' money for New Age ideologies. [Time expired.]]

Mr M A MANGENA: Chair, our education is a mess,

particularly in the black areas. The vast majority of

schools serving blacks in the townships and villages,

including institutions of higher learning, have enormous

problems and it has a lot to do with our history of

oppression, discrimination, poverty and other such things,

but it also has something to do with us as a people. The

Budget is mainly about plans and money. Before addressing

these plans and the money, may I steal a moment to talk

about us and our relationship to the Budget.

Discipline on the part of both teachers and learners has

gone to the dogs and, of course, where there is no respect

and order, there can be no credible teaching and learning.
14 March 2000                                Page 133 of 346

The greatest blame for this sad state of affairs must be

laid at the feet of our teachers. Young people take their

cue from and model their behaviour on what adults do or

enforce. In black schools such as Mbilwi, Leshata, Reashoma

and others where the teachers are disciplined, the learners

are not only disciplined but they also produce good results

in their examinations.

It seems that a lot of black teachers have adopted an

attitude to do the minimum and many may have lost

confidence in their own ability to teach. How else does one

explain the fact that most black teachers send their own

children away to be taught by white teachers elsewhere? Do

we not believe that we can teach our own children? We give

up and send them away to be taught by others somewhere

else? That is unfortunate, because throughout the history

of settler colonialism and racist oppression, blacks were

portrayed as stupid, inferior and incompetent. Now we,

ourselves, are reinforcing these same negative notions in

our own children by telling them that black schools and

black teachers are not good enough for them, that their own

parents, uncles, aunts and neighbours who are qualified

teachers are not good enough, and that a better education

can only be imparted by white teachers. This is
14 March 2000                                Page 134 of 346

psychologically damaging to our children.

The tragedy is that it is all false. Some of us were taught

by both black and white teachers at high school. Of course,

there are different levels of competence among individual

teachers, but not among the races. A teacher is a teacher

is a teacher. There is therefore no good reason why black

children should be carted out of the townships at four

o'clock in the morning to attend schools elsewhere.

The problems of education are further compounded by the

fact that not only the teachers, but also the entire black

petit bourgeois class, which played a crucial leadership

role in the black community during the struggle, has

trekked from the ghettos. Those who still stay there tend

to send their children away.

That means that the leadership skills and expertise that

used to reside in the community is now rare. In this

specific area of education, those skills would have been

valuable in the school governing bodies, and the general

thrust in improving schools and the education that they

provide. This has occurred because the advent of democracy

in our country has opened a lot of opportunities for the
14 March 2000                                Page 135 of 346

black petit bourgeois, that is most of us who are sitting

in this House whose opportunities have been widened by the

advent of democracy.

Unionism is a progressive thing. It is an essential element

of both democracy and balanced economic activity, ensuring

that different and important interest groups in society

contend as fairly as possible. However, in education

unionism is beginning to have a bad name. There is a notion

that teacher unionism protects laziness, incompetence,

irresponsibility and poor education.

There is a close relationship between crime and the

dysfunctional education system. Teachers do not only

provide knowledge and skills; they also give moral guidance

and leadership to the youth under them. Schools that lack

order, discipline and learning are a breeding ground for

antisocial elements who grow up to fill the prisons. Unless

society and teachers, working together, can restore the

dignity, respect and image of teachers whose presence

``induces girls to cross their legs and boys to swallow

cigarettes'' to quote Minister Asmal, schools will not be

institutions where responsible citizens are nurtured.
14 March 2000                                Page 136 of 346

We may have all the money in the world to invest in

education, but if the factors we have just discussed are

absent, we will reap nothing. In fact, those schools that

have little financial resources but have solved the

problems of ill discipline, lack of performance and

disrespect, have tended to produce good results. It follows

that the combination of ample resources and human factors

we have just alluded to are required to afford us quality

education. We hope that the R272 million allocated to

professional development in the current budget will go some

way towards addressing these problems.

There are several worrying shortcomings in this budget.

Firstly, the fact that only 1,2% of the education budget

will go to infrastructural development, suggests that the

backlog that was deliberately imposed by apartheid on black

schools in the townships and villages cannot be tackled. It

is now six years after the attainment of democracy, but an

issue of gross inequality among the races such as the

quality of classrooms we provide to our children is still

with us. It also appears that through normal budgetary

processes this matter can never be adequately addressed. It

might therefore be prudent to consider redress in the

provision of educational infrastructure as a special
14 March 2000                                Page 137 of 346

project and in this way create a special fund for it. A

campaign could then be launched to raise the necessary

funds for these goals.

Secondly, it is said that the rich still get a

disproportionately larger slice of the budget than the

poor. In fact, some observers believe that inequality in

educational resources between the poor and the rich has

grown since the advent of democracy. It is a matter to

which the Ministry of Education might have to pay


Thirdly, early childhood development and adult basic

literacy remain the poorer cousins of all other components

of our education in this country. They get close to nothing

in the present budget. Again, this is a problem of the

poor. It is they who could not get an education in their

youth, and it is their children who cannot afford

preprimary school fees for their toddlers. It is our duty

as a society to invest in those two aspects of education so

that we can create a better and productive population.

Fourthly, the decline in the allocation of funds to

tertiary institutions means that black institutions in
14 March 2000                                Page 138 of 346

particular, which have been inching from one crisis to

another, might just accelerate towards doom. It seems a

strategy is required to save or convert these institutions

into something more viable. As the education budget

increases in nominal terms but declines in real terms year

after year, the problems in education seem to be deepening.

We wish the Minister and his department wisdom and

strength, for education is very close to our hearts, and

without a good education, we have no future. [Applause.]


please pay attention to this education debate. No doubt it

is educational for all of you. Some members are not

bothered to listen to the education debate, having

participated in it for the past 45 minutes. Please pay


Dr J BENJAMIN: Chairperson, Deputy President, hon Minister,

hon members, friends and comrades in the gallery, first of

all, I want to tell Mr Ellis that contrary to what he

thinks, the ANC Government has not failed in any education

policy. Let me congratulate the national Department of

Education, the Council on Higher Education, the

stakeholders and the institutions for the tenacity with
14 March 2000                                Page 139 of 346

which they have implemented the transformation agenda in

higher education.

Apartheid created higher institutions of learning which

reproduced white privilege and black subordination. This

system was fragmented and divided along racial and ethnic

lines. These institutions reflected severe social

inequalities in terms of race and gender in student access

and success and in the composition of academic staff, with

major inequities between historically white institutions

and historically black institutions.

By the 1970s, resistance to apartheid education emerged at

various black campuses, and philosophers became a threat to

the state. Student leaders were banned, placed under house

arrest and detained en masse. Many of those student leaders

sit in this House today as members of the ANC. By the

1980s, black institutions had begun to address the

questions of transforming apartheid institutions.

Progressive organisations addressed questions of the

transformation of apartheid education and began to develop

the mandate on which the White Paper No 3 and the Higher

Education Act of 1997 is based. However, between 1975 and

1990, many scholars and students died on campuses in the
14 March 2000                                  Page 140 of 346

struggle against apartheid education. I salute Hector

Peterson, Steve Biko and many others who pioneered and died

in the struggle against apartheid education.

The department's implementation plans have been published

in order to build a rational and seamless higher education

system that grasps the intellectual and professional

challenges facing South Africans in the 21st century. Such

a transformation agenda has considerable financial and

human resource implications, and the pace of implementation

and achievement of policy goals will be shaped by available


This Budget has prioritised education. The higher education

budget comprises about 94% of the transfer payments of R7

billion in 2000, R7,5 billion in 2001 and R7,8 billion in

2002 in the education budget, and R450 million is allocated

to the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, representing

an increase of 13%. A redress allocation of R30 million is

included in the total allocation to universities and will

be used to fund academic development programmes.

The Council on Higher Education has been established to

advise the Minister on all aspects of higher education
14 March 2000                                Page 141 of 346

transformation, including the appropriate shape and size of

the higher education system. In this regard, the task team

is expected to report in June this year. According to the

first report of the Council on Higher Education, a new

higher education landscape is emerging in which the

previous differences between institutional types are

becoming blurred. Differences between institutions

categorised as historically advantaged and disadvantaged,

historically black and white, university and technikon,

contact and distance, and Afrikaans and English medium are

becoming eroded. These changes are both consequences of

policy initiatives and political changes that have exposed

South Africa to global trends and competition.

In spite of changes to the shape and size of higher

education, some inequities remain. The proportion of female

enrolment increased from 43% in 1993 to 52% in 1999.

However, traditionally women students have been clustered

in the humanities programmes and underrepresented in maths,

engineering, business and science programmes. Further

enquiry is therefore needed to ascertain whether gender

equity is spread across all programmes.

Major changes are evident in the enrolment of African
14 March 2000                                Page 142 of 346

students, which decreased at historically black

universities and Unisa, and increased at historically black

technikons, Technikon South Africa, historically white

Afrikaans universities and historically white English

universities. This pattern indicates that the system is

becoming representative of South Africa's population. A

possible sign of inequity, however, is that large

proportions of African students are clustered in distance

education programmes of historically white institutions,

mostly in the humanities.

Ironically, the main beneficiary of expanded enrolment

between 1995 and 1999 has been the historically white

Afrikaans-medium universities, and, to a lesser extent, the

historically white English-medium universities. Here one

notes that the increase of black students at historically

white Afrikaans-medium universities is 1 117%, moving from

a very low base. I want to ask the hon Mulder whether he

thinks that we could reverse this trend now by making

Afrikaans universities once more exclusive only to

Afrikaans speakers. [Interjections.]

On the other hand, the historically black universities,

both individually and collectively, have experienced a
14 March 2000                                  Page 143 of 346

sharp and severe decline in student enrolment. This has

serious implications for their level of public funding,

given the link between student numbers and state subsidies,

and the efficient use of infrastructure and resources,

which impacts on their organisational viability.

Research for the period 1996 to 1997 shows also that less

than 10% of all research publications were produced by the

10 historically black universities, while more than 63% of

publication outputs were produced by only five of the

historically white universities, ie Cape Town, Pretoria,

Witwatersrand, Natal and Stellenbosch. That means that the

changes that are happening are happening at the level of

access, but at the deeper level of research, of who is

producing the research, of where the black students are and

so on, a lot of work still needs to be done.

Also, academic staff composition is still strongly

determined along racial lines within the historical

categories of institutions. Lack of change in the race and

gender profile of the higher education system's academic

staff bodies contrasts starkly with rapid changes in the

composition of students over the past few years. This is

most evident in the historically white institutions.
14 March 2000                                Page 144 of 346

Higher education institutions are currently a long way from

meeting the provisions of the Employment Equity Act.

Overall, in the three years since the adoption of the White

Paper, considerable progress has been made with regard to

the transformation agenda. There are some extremely

positive trends, although much remains to be accomplished

if higher education is to produce the knowledge and person

power required to participate in a globally competitive

society. [Applause.]

Prof L B G NDABANDABA: Mr Chairperson, His Excellency the

Deputy President, hon members, the IFP education policy has

already been ably explained by my colleague the hon Mr

Mpontshane. I shall not repeat that.

In his Budget Speech, the hon the Minister of Finance

stated the following:

 This Budget makes a strong contribution to enhancing the

 growth and development potential of our economy.

The Education department has a big role to play in this

regard and should, therefore, be supported in its

initiatives. It is only right that Government spending on
14 March 2000                                 Page 145 of 346

education should concentrate on those less favoured by

circumstances or historical advantage.

Deep inequalities are still found in our education. We

cannot, for example, compare the financial standing of the

University of Zululand with that of UCT or Pretoria

Tukkies. It is only through a sound education budget that

the Education department's   strategic priorities for the

next five years can be accomplished, in particular, the

creation of a vibrant further education and training

system, which will equip students to meet the social and

economic needs of the 21st century.

The hon Minister of Education's ambition of building an

ideal higher education system that grasps the intellectual

and professional challenges facing South Africans in the

21st century can only be realised by means of a healthy

Education budget. This includes the fight against HIV/Aids.

The hon Minister of Education's initiatives in this regard

are applauded. The core activities, viz research and policy

review, planning and policy development, support and

monitoring, will succeed only if sufficient funds are

14 March 2000                                Page 146 of 346

The integration of colleges that offer higher education

into the higher education system, is an equally important

matter and should be supported financially. More financial

resources should be spent on inputs such as text books and

professional development of staff as well as the culture of

learning. It is important for us to develop the culture of

learning, as this will help us fight the culture of

nonpayment at our universities.

Ayikho into etholakala mahhala emhlabeni. [Nothing is free

in this world.]

The budget should, hopefully, promote the full-scale

educational planning process, which will be in place in

2003. Such a plan is, of course, critical, to quote the

Minister of Education, in ``reshaping the institutional

landscape and programme direction of higher education''.

The budget should fast-track the financing of important

professions such as medicine and engineering. The Council

on Higher Education and the Council on Higher Education

Quality Committee, which is the education and training

quality assurer for higher education, needs to be given

further financial support, so that it can discharge its
14 March 2000                                Page 147 of 346


The ambitious and forward-looking National Student

Financial Aid Scheme is a further plus in the funding of

higher education and will successfully address the so-

called financial exclusions at our technikons and

universities. It should, therefore, be given a further

financial boost. The department needs financial resources

to address the dwindling number of students in our

universities. Such a state of affairs has bad consequences

for the development of our country and our economy.

Umgomo we-IFP ngukuthi imfundo ephakeme ixhaswe ngokwanele

ngezimali. Abafundi kufanele banikwe imifundaze eyanele

eyobasiza ekutholeni imisebenzi. [Kwaphela isikhathi.] [The

policy of the IFP is that higher education should be fully

sponsored. Students should be given adequate bursaries so

that at the end of the day they will be able to find jobs.

[Time expired.]]

Mr R S NTULI: Mr Chairperson, the hon the Deputy President,

hon Ministers and members, I would just like to preface my

speech by responding to the constant criticism of the DP

policy of ``Adopt a School''. [Interjections.] We
14 March 2000                                Page 148 of 346

understand why there is so much political hysteria. It is

because the agenda is to ring-fence the DP not to penetrate

black areas. We are going to do that, because, in as much

as the ANC has the right to campaign in Houghton, we also

have the right to campaign in black areas. [Interjections.]

Having said that, the DP notes with alarm that the budget

for education has only been increased by 1% in real terms,

and this despite the pathetic backlogs and poor

infrastructure in the majority of our schools. The national

vision for education should put much emphasis on access for

all to quality public education. The budget should reflect

the main functions of the Department of Education, which

are policy development, evaluation and monitoring, as well

as assist in creating an enabling environment in the


For these functions to be effectively carried out, the

following needs to be put in place. We need well-trained,

sufficient, disciplined and motivated educators. The bare

requirements to attain this are job security and fair

remuneration law. We believe that the endless stress of

downsizing and redeployment of teachers or the perennial

feuds between the department and the unions do not help to
14 March 2000                                   Page 149 of 346

enhance job security. Downsizing should be manageable. We

must also ensure that we have adequate physical

infrastructure as well as adequate access to learning


We also need to develop curricula which are coherent and

relevant to the needs of the learners, broader society and

the labour market. We would like to be optimistic, and

therefore hope that we have such a curriculum in the form

of Curriculum 2005. Without adequate training and support

mechanisms, however, it might prove to be a disaster.

A few observations on the current implementation of

Curriculum 2005 at foundation level may be relevant, too.

These include the fact that the timeframes for

implementation were too tight. This did not allow the

teachers to make the necessary paradigm shift from the ways

of delivering in the classroom with which they were

familiar to an outcomes-based approach. The effects of

this, inter alia, were that the educators did not have time

to consider the effect of OBE in classroom practice, the

extent of reorientation required by educators was grossly

underestimated and training was inadequate. The cascade

method which was adopted in order to speed up
14 March 2000                                 Page 150 of 346

implementation did not make adequate provision for the

training of teachers, and hence the development of support

material was rushed. There are many other things I could


We need to proceed cautiously and judiciously, dear

Minister, in our curricular transformation.

An HON MEMBER: Dear Minister?

Mr R S NTULI: He is also my Minister. The future of our

children is at stake. It is in this context that the DP

welcomes the Minister's appointment of a curricular review


I would now like to say a few words on early childhood

education. The DP believes that the funding of early

childhood education is an integral and important part of

the core responsibility of the state. Yet we note a

progressive cut of more than 50% in this regard. Clearly,

we need some explanations in this regard, because we

believe that provision of early childhood education creates

the necessary background for children to advance better at

14 March 2000                                  Page 151 of 346

In conclusion, it is imperative that we learn from past

experiences if we do not want our education system to slip

again into such backlogs and serious obstacles.

Specifically, we should not politicise the education system

again. [Interjections.] The previous government virtually

paralysed education for blacks by making it a significant

facet of its political ideology. It is common knowledge

that this resulted in many talented and dedicated teachers

leaving the profession in large numbers in the mid 1950s,

the 1970s and later. [Interjections.]

What is more pathetic is that the inhuman policies of Bantu

education converted these centres of learning into

political and psychological war zones, and the unintended

consequence of the liberation struggle inevitably spilling

into our schools was the breakdown of order and discipline

and disregard for the authority of teachers.

[Interjections.] The new Government also aggravated the

position in many ways by using political correctness as an

ultimate deciding factor in appointing some of these ...

[Time expired.] [Interjections.]


announce that, by agreement amongst the Whips, notices of
14 March 2000                                Page 152 of 346

motion were not taken at the start of proceedings today.

Instead, they will be called for immediately after the

debate on the Education Vote has been concluded. All

members are urged to be back in the Chamber at 14:00, when

business will be resumed.

Business suspended at 12:56 and resumed at 14:00.

                     Afternoon Sitting

Mr S D MONTSITSI: Madam Speaker, Deputy President, Minister

of Education, hon members, comrades and friends, firstly I

want to start by addressing the hon Mike Ellis, who is not

here and who earlier indicated that the ANC and the IFP

seemed to be having an unholy alliance in the National

Assembly. He was actually saying that they are

collaborating. We can pardon Mr Ellis ... [Interjections.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Here I am!

Mr S D MONTSITSI: We can pardon Mr Ellis for his short

memory, because if we still remember quite well, the

Government of National Unity was formed in 1994. The IFP

has never moved out of the Government of National Unity,
14 March 2000                                   Page 153 of 346

and this also is the stipulation of the Constitution of our

country. However, Mr Ellis seems to ignore the fact that

the DP have a relationship with the New NP in the Western

Cape. I am not quite sure why he is not open with that type

of relationship because, indeed, it seems like a syndicate.


Now, coming to Mr Gaum ... [Interjections.] Okay, the hon

Mr Gaum! He is very interested in making sure that we go

back to the models. He is saying that parents must have

choice in education, but the choice that he is referring to

is that of the Model As, the Model Bs, the Model Cs and the

Model Ds.   Hon members will remember that these models are

the same ones that we dismantled in the past.

Right now we only have two systems of education. We have

the private system and the public system. The hon Mr Gaum

wants to take us back. He obviously does not mind about the

township schools. This causes one to wonder about what is

actually happening within the New NP. What we have is a

situation in which there seems to be emerging some opposing

forces within the New NP, because some of the members of

the New NP, when they stand at this podium, support the two

systems of education, namely the private education system
14 March 2000                                  Page 154 of 346

and the public education system.

It seems as if though there are those within the New NP who

take one step forward and those who take three steps

backwards. Those who take one step forward unfortunately do

not continue. They wait for those who have taken three

steps backwards. As a result the two never meet.


I would like to inform Mr Green that we have discussed the

issue of home schooling. When we discussed the South

African Schools Act in 1996, he actually wanted the

Government to fund the system and the teachers. He also

wanted corporal punishment to take place in this system. He

even, together with others in the Christian community,

applied to the court in order to give them the right to

mete out punishment to children in the home-schooling

system. The court turned him down, but he continues,

despite that, to clamour for the home-schooling system and

to have it funded by the Government. That is quite


I will not waste time with our hon Mr Ntuli.
14 March 2000                                Page 155 of 346

The HON MEMBER: You are not supposed to be responding.

Mr S D MONTSITSI: There are nations on the shores of Africa

which over centuries arrogated themselves a paternal as

well as a maternal role over our continent. During that

period, Africa was regarded as a pot of gold. Years of

plunder and pillage were the results. Our fields of gold

were reduced to ruins, squalor and poverty. If a medical

doctor were to diagnose this scenario, it would indeed be

confirmed that due to lack of clean water, a balanced diet,

warm clothes and shelter to ward off adverse weather

conditions, the giant collapsed. Those of us who live in

this era on the feet of Africa are fortunate. We can see

and feel the feet twitching, moving and stretching. The

giant is indeed awakening.

The process to bring about change and transformation in

education commenced five years ago. The transition from

apartheid to people's education is going to take us a long

time to achieve, given the extent to which Bantu education

and colonialism destroyed our infrastructure and our

resources. We wish to commend the Minister for launching a

systematic and comprehensive overall programme which hinges

on mass mobilisation to turn education around. This call
14 March 2000                                 Page 156 of 346

for action is made to all of us, MPs, teachers, students,

parents, the community, all education staff and all other

South Africans who have the interests of our children at

heart. Indeed, Tirisano is the strategic education plan for

the implementation of the programmes which will gradually

and systematically salvage our education system from

sliding further into the abyss of darkness.

There are nine priorities which the Minister has

identified. However, for the purpose of implementation,

these priorities have been organised into five core

programme areas, and these   are: Firstly, the scourge of

HIV/Aids that is prevalent in schools; secondly, the

schools' effectiveness and the teachers'   professionalism;

thirdly, the unacceptably high levels of illiteracy amongst

the youth and adults; fourthly, further education and

training, including higher education; and fifthly,

organisational effectiveness of the national and provincial

dapartments of education.

These programmes will be implemented over the next five

years. This mass movement towards the normalisation of

schools, tertiary institutions and the Department of

Education is not contradictory or far removed from the
14 March 2000                                Page 157 of 346

Colts campaign. On the contrary, Colts and Tirisano go

together. Whilst Tirisano adopts a holistic approach to the

education crisis, the Culture of Learning, Teaching and

Service campaign, Colts, is more focused on the behavioural

pattern and discipline of all educational stakeholders.

Therefore, the two supplement each other.

In a school, institution or community where there is a

culture of learning and teaching, it would be much easier

to establish programmes of Tirisano. Our President says of

an environment with a culture of learning and teaching -

Comrade Kgwele has actually indicated this point - that the

learners should learn, the teachers should teach, the

managers should manage and the school governing bodies

should govern.

A classic example in respect of the culture of learning and

teaching is the one reported on by the Portfolio Committee

on Education on their tour of KwaZulu-Natal. The report

states in part that -

 ... there were some poverty-stricken rural schools which

 had good discipline, where teachers were actively

 teaching and students actively learning. There were no
14 March 2000                                 Page 158 of 346

 broken windows and vandalised furniture. Although the

 schools did not have enough text books, school governing

 bodies are encouraged to fundraise for learners' teaching

 material. Many of these poor rural schools maintained a

 matric pass rate in excess of 60% through the positive

 attitude of the principals and teachers, and generally

 have neat and clean premises. There were also rural

 schools where principals had many complaints while doing

 very little themselves to improve the situation. Such

 schools were in a very sorry state.

Tirisano, therefore, is the game plan to rebuild the morale

of teachers, parents, students and the surrounding

communities. It is a philosophy that says, together we can

do it, united we can do it. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Before I call on the next

speaker, I would like to welcome the Fifa delegation, led

by Mr Allan Rothenburg. You are very welcome to this

Parliament, and to the country. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Speaker, thanks for the

opportunity to sum up the debate. I want to thank all hon

members, who have made spirited contributions to this
14 March 2000                                Page 159 of 346

debate. Taken as a whole, I think we have done duty as I

invited them to.

We have started to grasp the notion that the education of

the people of our country is not and should not be a

partisan affair. In particular, education is not a field of

public life where cheap shots by small-minded politicians

are appropriate. I will reply to everyone of the

submissions made and to the questions asked, either

bilaterally or by meeting the political parties represented

by the intervention, as I have done already with two or


The chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Education,

Prof Mayatula, has set an excellent tone with his

thoughtful, erudite and broad-ranging analysis of the

budget and its implications. I congratulate him on taking

his committee members on field visits so that they can see

for themselves what is going on in the hinterland of our

system. Benefits of first-time engagement with the grass

roots are evident in his own contribution and that of

several of his colleagues.

As hon members know, three years ago there were blood,
14 March 2000                                Page 160 of 346

sweat and tears in this debate. Three years ago there were

constitutional contestations, with cases concerning

education gone to the Constitutional Court. Now it is quite

obvious that there has been consolidation. There is an

emerging consensus, an emerging agreement, as to how we

should handle education.

It is therefore a pity - and I have to say this because the

hon member comes from an education background - that the

hon Mike Ellis has displayed such pettiness in his remarks

on the work that has been undertaken by the Mandela

Government in the field of education transformation, for

which my predecessor, Prof Bengu, had political


I remember the days when the NP of old tried to drive a

wedge between Prof Bengu and Dr Blade Nzimande, then

chairperson of the Portfolio Committee of Education by

personalising the issue. They failed then. I regret to say

this, but the hon Mr Ellis fails today. What both the New

NP and the DP have never understood, is the fact that the

Ministers of both the first and second democratic

Governments, since 1994, have not been carrying out

personal agendas, but the policies of the democratic
14 March 2000                                   Page 161 of 346

Government. I have contributed to those policies and I

stand by them today.

The hon Mr Ellis tried to smear the 1994/1999

transformation programme as communist, socialist


Mr M J ELLIS: Telling it like it is!

The MINISTER: No, be careful.

As hon members know, there is a ``tokoloshe'' in our

custom. [Laughter.] [Applause.] To keep the ``tokoloshe''

out, we have to have recourse to ``betela'', is that not

so? [Interjections.] A ``betela'' is something to keep the

``tokoloshe'' out. What can we get to keep the

``tokoloshe'' of Mike Ellis out? [Interjections.]

[Laughter.] [Applause.] What kind of rebarbitive remedy do

we have to adopt to keep the hon Mr Ellis, with his very

large communist under the bed, out of that bed and make

them visible.

I think what we really have to talk about, is that this is

our own democratic and constitutional policy and legal
14 March 2000                                Page 162 of 346

framework. I want to say to the hon Mr Ellis that he

resolutely refuses to grow up as a political thinker and is

content with lazy reliance on the old ``Rooi Gevaar'' smear

tactics of the old NP. It is a rather pitiful thing to do

that. [Interjections.] The country has the right to expect

more from the senior spokesperson of the official

opposition, frankly.

In the same light the hon Mr Ntuli says ``we will assert

our masculinity, we will go where we want in any school in

South Africa''. He replied in the Sowetan. Identical

letters were written to three other newspapers, but they

were not written under his name. He replied in the Sowetan

and I replied back to him to say: ``Look, we are going to

draft rules for access to schools because of the latent

violence in all our schools. The rules of access will lay

down public representatives' right to go there, inspectors'

right to go there, everybody's right to go there under

controlled conditions.''

There is no right to adopt a school. I said that if the

ANC, the IFP or Azapo tried to adopt a school, I would

object to it. The adoption of a school presupposes a kind

of reliance, to provide a kind of fatherly supervision of
14 March 2000                                 Page 163 of 346

things. [Interjections.] No, seriously. At the same time he

says: ``Keep partisan politics out of education.'' We do

not wish to make our schools centres of rebellion, centres

of no-go areas, centres of fags. I think it is a cultural


The hon Mr Ntuli's party had their federal congress last

week. They had a theme song which went as follows.

Presumably the hon Mr Ntuli comes from this culture which

says: ``You are the voice, show and understand it, make a

noise and make it clear, awoo, awoo, awoo.'' [Applause.]

[Laughter.] ``We are not going to sit in silence, we are

not going to live in fear, awoo, awoo, awoo.'' [Applause.]


This comes from the rural vastness of somewhere near

Empangeni, which is very much part of the ``volkland''

tradition that the hon Mr Ntuli stands for.

[Interjections.] We are talking about the culture of the

schools we want to develop, and I do not think that we

should, in fact, trivialise it by saying that it is going

to be a party-political matter.

On professional discipline, Mr Ellis was on somewhat firmer
14 March 2000                                Page 164 of 346

ground in highlighting the need for greater professional

discipline in schools. In saying so, he was echoing the

sentiments of everyone with the interest in the system at

heart, including the South African Council of Educators.

But, given Mr Ellis' narrow vision, all he could suggest to

deal with the matter was that I should control the trade

unions. At the same time, the AZAPO representative says

that we should not have these constant battles between the

unions and the Minister. Both of them are travesties. This

represents a desperately thin, hackneyed response, a social

malaise of immense depth and complexity which I dealt with

quite fully in my opening speech.

If the DP expects to broaden its narrow electoral base by

making a habit of union-bashing, they have another think

coming. And let us be quite clear about this, Mr Ellis is

wrong. There is no moratorium on visits by inspectors to

schools. That neither was imposed by SADTU nor any other

trade unions. This is part of an urban legend.

Let me make it quite clear. Inspectors go to schools

without the authority of any trade union. They go there to

carry out their legal obligation to the education

community. Can I assert this, because I should not be
14 March 2000                                Page 165 of 346

deceitful before our Parliament. It is not only

unparliamentary, but it is also impolitic to do so. There

is no moratorium on school visits ... [Interjections.]

Mr M J ELLIS: You worry me, Kader.

The MINISTER: Do I worry you? That is something you have to

deal with yourself. I cannot be responsible for that.


Our approach is different. The organised teaching

profession are our allies, our social partners in the work

of renewal in our schools. Rightly so. Of course, we hold

these organisations' members to the highest ethical and

professional standards. There should be no doubt about

this. That is why I am introducing the South African

Educators Bill in Parliament before June to fasten and

strengthen the ethical and moral behaviour of teachers.

Our approaches are wide-ranging. We have set up systems to

monitor attendance trends. We are preparing the way for the

whole school review. This is a systematic way of doing it,

without scapegoating anyone, as I said; and we are

preparing regulations in collaboration with provincial

authorities to ensure that there is no ambiguity whatsoever
14 March 2000                                Page 166 of 346

about the right of officials of the Education department to

visit schools on official business. There is no question of

no-go areas.

In the same way, I shall be publishing, within the next few

days, the regulations imposing duties on principals during

strike actions, because it is essential that there should

be order in schools during strike action. I make the

appeals, of course, as the unions know, but we want

stability. For the next two or three years, we want

stability in our schools. Labour relations must be engaged

in and settled outside the school, without the schools

being affected.

In the same way, I will deal with this whole question of

how we treat excellence in schools. Mr Gaum mentioned and

relied on a statement by Mr Bush jnr. You see, Mr Bush snr,

once the President, was described as having voodoo

economics. What we had today was largely voodoo educational

policies. [Laughter.] You see, Mr Gaum wants us to

celebrate excellence by saying that there must be special

bonuses given to special excellence in schools. Well, a

comrade here, from the ANC side, replied to that in passing

by saying that to celebrate excellence, we must in fact
14 March 2000                                Page 167 of 346

have competition on equal terms. Of course, there is no

competition on equal terms. I do not want to score the

narrow political point that our inheritance is an awesome

one, with enormous problems that attend to us today.

And let me say quite clearly to this House that to have

competition, it must be fair competition; to have vouchers

where children will go to school on the basis of vouchers

of their choice, then we must have fair competition. One

third of our schools do not have electricity. One third of

our schools do not have running water. Nearly 50% of our

schools have no sanitation. We are talking about

competition, but the physical wherewithal for competition

is not there. One third of our teachers are underqualified

or unqualified, but this is the legacy that we have. So to

have competition then, one cannot have one runner with both

feet tied together, and I mean at the Olympic Games, not in

soccer. [Laughter.] We cannot have runners with two feet

tied together.

Seriously, we have to deal with the pathologies which we

face. We have to do so on the basis of the recipes that hon

Louis Luyt has raised. These are the kinds of recipes that

we can deal with systematically in our country. But there
14 March 2000                                Page 168 of 346

is no partisan advantage in this. The school system which

we inherited did not result in the ANC majority falling

from 63% to 50% or so, as the Leader of the Opposition

wants it to happen in the next election. Our majority went

up and our people who voted for us were the very ones who

confront daily, all the time, the problems of poor

schooling. [Interjections.]

Can I therefore say to hon Mr Gaum that the incentives

which we will give, are not the incentives of money, or

preference, but the incentives we will give is a commitment

that we would like to find new resources for school

building and for in-service training. It is quite clear

that we have to do so. It is quite clear that Government

this year has shown this in the budget, which I will come

to now.

However, before I do so, I must in fact refer to corporal

punishment. It is very saddening that the ACDP, of all the

parties here, persists in its full-on campaign to restore

corporal punishment in our schools. There is no possibility

that this Government and this Ministry will bring back the

cane and the whip. It would be a kind of sadomasochism to

bring back the cane, the whip and the ruler in our schools.
14 March 2000                                Page 169 of 346

Our task is to uphold human rights, not to encourage or

legitimate their violation. So it is impossible to believe

that an archaic and authoritarian form of discipline should

persist in an era of democracy and the protection of human


My department knows that for six months now I have been

waiting very impatiently for them to produce a document

that will give professional support to principals and

teachers in handling disciplinary problems. The Council of

Education Ministers has acknowledged that such a document

would be extremely helpful. That is the way we should be

talking. So we do not need a document merely because

corporal punishment has been abolished. We need this

document because discipline deals with responsibility, with

rights, with relationships, with commitment, with

determination to succeed, with consideration and with

respect and, in fact, may provide the real basis of love in

our schools.

I want to come to the national literacy campaign. Hon Mr

Ellis was shooting in the wrong direction when he blamed

alleged failures in our Abet programme on the national

qualification framework. This is as illogical as blaming
14 March 2000                                Page 170 of 346

our failure to solve the problem of backlogs in school

infrastructure on the existence of a matriculation

examination. In other words, we have a problem in extending

provision. Mr Ellis chooses to attack the new system of

quality assurance. The job of the SA Qualification

Authority in this area is to ensure that Abet programmes

fulfil basic requirements of quality and that the standards

on which qualifications are built allow for further

progression. SAQA has fulfilled its obligations in this


Now, of course I am concerned about the inadequacy of

public funding for Abet, including the national literacy

campaign, and I refer to my call-to-action document of last

July. I made it clear at the time that public funds were

insufficient for this purpose. That is why I lay such a

great emphasis on partnerships and that is why the Business

Trust, through the business fraternity, has come up trumps

in this. In the same way, as far as the literacy campaign

is concerned and the governing bodies, I must say to hon Mr

Gaum that we have turned to international donor assistance,

and the money will be forthcoming because they trust our

Government. They believe in our Government and they know

that we are doing the right things. Therefore, money is not
14 March 2000                                Page 171 of 346

everything. We may use it as an excuse to batter the

Government or to attack the Government, but in fact public

employers and others are under an obligation to provide

functional literacy at places of work. We are therefore

doing this in a comprehensive way.

We do not need a junior Minister. We now have a national

director for the agency, a person of enormous intellectual

acumen and with a good relationship with the whole of South

Africa. He will set up the campaign and, in fact, we show

seriousness by doing this. We will do so in the right way.

As far as the budgetary matters are concerned, several hon

members have referred to the budget cut for Education in

real terms. They are not referring to Vote 8, which is what

we are discussing today. If we analyse the figures

allocated to the national department for 2000-2001, it

appears that there is a nominal increase of 6,5%. Depending

on what figures one assumes for inflation in 2000-2001, it

appears that the real value of education spending,

particularly for the higher education budget, will be

retained in this coming financial year.

I made it quite clear in my opening speech that, apart from
14 March 2000                                Page 172 of 346

conditional grants, the national Budget does not cover

provincial allocations for education. These are decisions

of provincial government legislatures over which neither I

nor this House has any jurisdiction. In fact, the

provincial legislatures have yet to begin their own budget

debates. We must arm our MECs. But then, regarding the

relationship with their own exchequers in the provinces,

are they are able to obtain the sums of money to carry out

the programmes they have?

As members know, provincial budget allocations are part of

a block grant from the national revenue fund. The education

component of equitable shares is a nominal amount largely

based on demographic data. The education component is not a

ring-fenced allocation for education but merely a means of

ensuring that funds are available to provincial governments

for their approximate needs.

I cannot take issue with Mr Gaum. I will engage with him

about the dramatic conclusions from his reading of the

provisional provincial education budget allocations. He is

of the view that provincial departments will be shedding

teaching jobs. Allow me to state the position as that hon

member has done. The Government, not just the Minister of
14 March 2000                                Page 173 of 346

Education, is committed to achieve a better balance of

personnel to nonpersonnel spending. The target for 2004 ...

[Interjections.] [Applause.] Thank you very much. I shall

add half a minute to my time.

We must reduce personnel costs to 85% and 15% for

nonpersonnel costs. Thus, we are not talking about reducing

the number of teachers. Lay-offs of temporary teachers in

excess will only occur where it is impossible to redeploy

them. Of course, the equity redeployment process, as I have

announced, will end in June this year. That redeployment

was necessary to bring about equity as far as allocation of

resources was concerned. It will end this year.

That is why we must bring back to the teaching profession,

the younger and the more enthusiastic teachers. But, there

will always be redeployment. Forty thousand teachers retire

or die every year. There is constant movement and flux as

far as teaching is concerned. Of course, I do not use the

word redeployment. When I was a school teacher, I was

appointed to a job and, regardless of my consent, I had to

take the job.

Now we must work out a system where in fact we do not use
14 March 2000                                Page 174 of 346

fancy names like redeployment. But let us say that in fact

we have an obligation, as public servants, to take up jobs

consistent with family obligations, as I have mentioned -

jobs to which we have been appointed. So the picture is

highly dynamic. The rationalisation and redeployment

process is now completed. I will therefore be able to

announce further improvement in the terms and conditions of

employment of teachers, particularly the negotiations that

are taking place of payment by performance for teachers.

I end therefore by saying that the question of registration

of private higher institutions and others will remain to be

discussed bilaterally because it is enormously important as

far as registration fees are concerned, which is also a

point raised for universities. We shall do so.

Once again, I thank all those who contributed to this

fascinating debate - those who came to praise and those who

came to blame. May the winds of the debate continue to blow

through the corridors of the education system. It needs and

deserves the combined wisdom and energy of all hon members

and their constituents. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.
14 March 2000                                 Page 175 of 346

                       NOTICES OF MOTION

Dr R H DAVIES: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on

the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of

the ANC:

 That the House -

 (1) notes that -

     (a) the Paris Club of creditor nations meets today on

           the question of the Mozambican debt;

     (b) Mozambique has been devastated by the worst

           floods in living memory, and that this

           devastation is a major setback to economic


     (c) several countries, recognising this, have

           recently announced that they will cancel all or

           part of Mozambique's debt;

     (d) South Africa cancelled Mozambique's debt to it

           some years ago; and
14 March 2000                                Page 176 of 346

     (e) the servicing of Mozambique's debt, estimated at

         US$8,3 billion in 1998, was already an

         intolerable burden before the floods; and

 (2) calls on the Paris Club to take a bold step to

     relieve Mozambique of its debt and thereby contribute

     to creating conditions for recovery in that country.


Mnr T D LEE: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat

ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die DP sal voorstel:

 Dat die Huis -

 (1) kennis neem dat -

     (a) die Nuwe NP in die Oos-Kaap verbind is tot groter

         samewerking met die ANC, wat konstruktiewe

         betrokkenheid met die regerende party insluit;

     (b) die Nuwe NP beweer daar is nie werklike

         ideologiese verskille tussen die Nuwe NP en die

         ANC nie;
14 March 2000                                Page 177 of 346

     (c) sowel die Nuwe NP as die ANC die Nuwe NP-kongres

         gebruik het om die DP aan te val; en

     (d) die Nuwe NP die moontlikheid van gesprekke met

         die DP oor opposisiesamewerking as 'n mors van

         tyd verwerp het;

 (2) besef dat 'n knievallende, onderdanige opposisie 'n

     resep vir mislukking in Suid-Afrika is; en

 (3) aan die DP die eer gee vir sy bereidheid om, indien

     nodig, alleen weerstand te bied teen die magshonger

     van die ANC en die gevolglike traak-my-nie-agtige

     benadering teenoor die armes en werkloses van Suid-


[Tussenwerpsels.] [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans

notice of motion follows.)

[Mr T D LEE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on

the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the DP:

 That the House -
14 March 2000                                  Page 178 of 346

 (1) notes that -

     (a) the New NP in the Eastern Cape is committed to

         greater co-operation with the ANC, which includes

         constructive involvement with the governing


     (b) the New NP claims that there are no truly

         ideological differences between the New NP and

         the ANC;

     (c) both the New NP and the ANC used the New NP's

         congress to attack the DP; and

     (d) the New NP has dismissed possible talks with the

         DP on opposition co-operation as a waste of time;

 (2) realises that a kowtowing, submissive opposition is a

     recipe for failure in South Africa; and

 (3) gives the DP credit for its readiness, if necessary,

     to stand alone against the power-hungry ANC and the

     resultant could-not-care-less attitude in respect of

     the poor and the unemployed.
14 March 2000                                Page 179 of 346

[Interjections.] [Applause.]]

Mr M A MZIZI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on

the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of

the IFP:

 That the House -

 (1) notes with concern that crime is ever prevalent in

     Hillbrow, which has recently become the crime capital

     of South Africa;

 (2) commends Home Affairs and SAPS officials on their

     efforts to weed out crime in that area and to fight

     it visibly;

 (3) pleads with communities to co-operate with such

     efforts and to give the project their full support;

 (4) iyaqaphela ukuthi ngalokhu asihlosanga ukuhlukumeza

     abafikayo kuleli zwe lethu, kodwa esikuhlosile

     ngukulwisa inkohlakalo eyenza kubonakale iHillbrow

     sengathi yindawo nje impela engasenakungcebeleka;

14 March 2000                                   Page 180 of 346

 (5) ikhuthaza aboMnyango waseKhaya kanye nowamaphoyisa

       kababa uSteve lapha ngaphesheya.

[Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

 [[(4) notes that by this we do not mean to discriminate

         against aliens in this country, but that our aim is

         to fight the corruption which has turned Hillbrow

         into a place where there is no joy; and

 (5)     wishes to encourage the Department of Home Affairs

         and the police of Mr Steve Tshwete.]

Ms M A MOLEBATSI: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the

next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the


 That the House -

 (1) notes that yesterday's crime blitz in Hillbrow

       resulted in the arrest of hundreds of suspected

       criminals, the seizure of illegal firearms, the

       confiscation of drugs and the recovery of counterfeit

14 March 2000                                Page 181 of 346

 (2) recognises that the Government and the SA Police

     Service are serious in their efforts to curb crime;

 (3) acknowledges that the blitz in Hillbrow and other

     parts of the country can be described as victories in

     the fight against crime;

 (4) commends the Minister of Safety and Security and the

     SAPS for their efforts to make our streets safer; and

 (5) calls on all law-abiding South Africans to assist the

     police in sending a message that crime is no longer

     welcome in our country.

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the

next sitting day of the House I will move on behalf of the

New NP:

 That the House -

 (1) acknowledges the constructive role played by

     opposition parties in order to strengthen multiparty

     democracy on the continent of Africa;
14 March 2000                                Page 182 of 346

 (2) recognises the need for opposition parties to

     participate in multilateral forums such as SADC and

     the OAU; and

 (3) welcomes opposition leaders of 13 African countries

     attending a conference of the Democrat Union of

     Africa, an associated member of the International

     Democrat Union, currently being held in Cape Town and

     hosted by the New NP.

[Interjections.] [Time expired.]

Mr M N RAMODIKE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that

at the next sitting of the House I will move on behalf of

the UDM:

 That the House -

 (1) notes with grave concern that thousands of commuters

     in the Northern Province are faced with serious

     transport problems;

 (2) notes with dismay and disappointment that most of the

     previously state-subsidised bus companies are
14 March 2000                                 Page 183 of 346

       virtually bankrupt and are now on the verge of

       closing shop;

 (3) notes that the few buses that are still operational

       on public roads are not roadworthy and pose a big

       danger to commuters; and

 (4) calls on Government to apply the same policy of

       recapitalisation of the taxi industry to the bus

       industry, as a matter of urgency.

Mr A M MAZIYA: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the

next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the


 That the House -

 (1) noting that the South African Government has taken

       the initiative to introduce tougher gun control


 (2) recognising that the Government has adopted positive

       measures to deal effectively with unemployment and

       crime; and
14 March 2000                                 Page 184 of 346

 (3) acknowledging that crime has a negative impact on the

     daily lives of millions of our fellow South Africans,

     the youth in particular, and that it has a negative

     impact on economic growth;

 (4) commends the youth of Soweto for courageously taking

     the lead in the fight against crime; and

 (5) calls on people throughout our country to hand in any

     illegal firearms and to work with the police in

     making South Africa a safer place for all.


Mrs P DE LILLE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that at

the next sitting of the House I shall move:

 That the House -

 (1) notes that the Constitution requires that legislation

     envisaged in sections 9(4), 32(2) and 33(3) of the

     Constitution be enacted within three years of the

     date on which the Constitution took effect, 4

     February 1997;
14 March 2000                                Page 185 of 346

 (2) notes that in order to give effect to those

     provisions of the Constitution, Parliament, just

     before the expiry of the three-year period passed the

     Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair

     Discrimination Bill, the Promotion of Access to

     Information Bill and the Promotion of Administrative

     Justice Bill;

 (3) notes that the President has assented to these Bills

     in terms of section 79 of the Constitution and that

     the relevant Acts of Parliament have been published;

 (4) notes that each of these Acts contains a provision to

     the effect that it will take effect on a date to be

     fixed by the President; and

 (5) calls on President Thabo Mbeki to ensure that these

     Acts are put into operation as a matter of urgency

     and ...

[Time expired.]

Genl C L VILJOEN: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee kennis dat ek

op die volgende sittingsdag namens die VF sal voorstel:
14 March 2000                               Page 186 of 346

 Dat die Huis -

 (1) kennis neem van die onsteltenis van President Mbeki,

     soos vandag berig is, omdat 'n boer in die Ermelo-

     omgewing geweier het dat 'n swart persoon op sy plaas

     begrawe word;

 (2) verder kennis neem -

     (a) van die omstandighede van die weiering, naamlik

         dat die oorledene nie op die plaas woonagtig was

         nie, maar op die dorp waar daar wel 'n

         begraafplaas is;

     (b) dat die rede waarom die familie versoek het dat

         die begrafnis op die plaas moes wees, aangegee is

         as sou die voorvadergeeste dit so aangedui het;

     (c) dat die boer deur 'n appèluitspraak, waarvan die

         koste R102 000 beloop het, 'n hofbeslissing

         daarteen verkry het; en

     (d) dat die familie ondanks dit alles nog probeer het

         om die begrafnis op die plaas te hou, welke aksie
14 March 2000                                 Page 187 of 346

         dit nodig gemaak het om die polisie en van die

         kommandolede te gebruik om die hofbeslissing te

         handhaaf; en

 (3) 'n beroep op President Mbeki doen om versigtig te

     wees om nie gemoedere op te sweep nie.

(Translation of Afrikaans Notice of motion follows.)

[Gen C L VILJOEN: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the

next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the FF:

 That the House -

 (1) notes the dismay of President Mbeki, as reported

     today, because a farmer in the Ermelo district

     refused to allow a black person to be buried on his


 (2) further notes -

     (a) the circumstances surrounding the refusal, namely

         that the deceased was not resident on the farm,

         but in the town, which has a cemetery;
14 March 2000                                Page 188 of 346

      (b) that the reason for the family's request that the

          funeral be on the farm was given as being a

          specification from ancestral spirits;

      (c) that the farmer obtained a court ruling against

          this by way of an appeal verdict, which cost R102

          000; and

      (d) that, despite all this, the family still

          attempted to have the funeral on the farm, which

          made it necessary to utilise the police and some

          members of the commando to uphold the court

          ruling; and

 (3) appeals to President Mbeki to be careful not to

      incite emotions.]

Miss N B SIGABI: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the

next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the


 That the House -

 (1) recognises that the national lottery is a monopoly
14 March 2000                                 Page 189 of 346

     which has affected the ability of many worthy causes

     to raise desperately needed funds;

 (2) calls on the Government to name the worthy causes

     that will qualify to receive 30% of the lottery's

     revenue; and

 (3) further calls on the Government to ensure that there

     is complete transparency in how the money raised by

     the lottery is spent, including how much is spent on


     (a) salaries and payments to members of the company

         which runs the lottery;

     (b) administration costs;

     (c) marketing; and

     (d) any other specified costs.

[Interjections.] [Applause.]

Dr R RABINOWITZ: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the

next sitting day of the House I shall move:
14 March 2000                                 Page 190 of 346

 That the House -

 (1) recognises the sterling work done by the Parkview

     community police forum in reducing crime in that

     neighbourhood, particularly in view of the

     Government's repeated calls on communities to become

     partners in combating crime;

 (2) notes that people work best when offered incentives

     and programmes work best when there is

     accountability; and

 (3) calls on the Minister of Safety and Security to -

     (a) reinstate the programme operated by the Parkview

         community police forum whereby residents pay

         reservists to be bobbies on the beat;

     (b) promote such initiatives throughout the country;


     (c) demonstrate his commitment to community

         participation in combating crime in every way

14 March 2000                                 Page 191 of 346

Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the

next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the


 That the House -

 (1) notes that 50 white families have been welcomed into

       the informal community in Borchards in the Southern


 (2) recognises that the admission of white children into

       the local former DET school is an historical event;

 (3) believes that such a community spirit is a shining

       example of ubuntu, the spirit on which the future of

       our country depends; and

 (4) commends the people of Borchards in the Southern Cape

       for their humanity to welcome others who are facing

       adversity, setting aside divisions of race and


14 March 2000                                 Page 192 of 346

Mrs S M CAMERER: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the

next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 That the House -

 (1) notes with horror and disgust that charges against

     six alleged rapists, among them a man accused of

     raping an 11-year old girl and an alleged murderer,

     were withdrawn last week in the Northern Cape because

     of the failure of the justice system to provide them

     timeously with legal aid-funded legal representation;

 (2) notes that the reason for the withdrawal of legal

     representation in most of these cases was apparently

     the sudden reduction by the Minister for Justice and

     Constitutional Development of legal aid fees;

 (3) further notes that this action by the courts has

     outraged communities and reflects no credit on our

     criminal justice system; and

 (4) calls on the National Director of Public Prosecutions

     to look into these cases and on the Minister for

     Justice and Constitutional Development to start an
14 March 2000                                  Page 193 of 346

     urgent departmental probe into the consequences,

     countrywide, of the sudden reduction in legal aid


Miss O N MNDENDE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the

next sitting of the House I will move on behalf of the UDM:

 That the House -

 (1) notes the recent incident in which Mrs Zoleka Dlodlo

     Maqungo of Umhlombo Wenene, formerly Radio Xhosa, was

     gunned down in the early morning, in front of her

     children, by her husband, who later shot himself,

     leaving the defenceless orphans traumatised for life;

 (2) expresses its concern at the escalating rate of

     murders of wives by their husbands; and

 (3) calls on Government immediately to address this

     shocking situation with a co-ordinated strategy which

     gives special attention to the inability of certain

     men to cope with their own frustrations and sense of

14 March 2000                                     Page 194 of 346


                       (Draft Resolution)


without notice:

 That the House -

 (1) notes the positive contributions of the SANDF, the

     international community, business, the media and many

     other people of the world to the disaster relief

     operations in flood-ravaged Mozambique;

 (2) hopes that the international community and relief

     agencies will continue in their efforts to ensure the

     long-term, sustainable socio-economic rebuilding of


 (3) pays homage to all those who continue to play a role

     in helping the flood victims to secure some measure

     of stability and social rehabilitation;

 (4) honours all the personnel of the SANDF who came to
14 March 2000                                  Page 195 of 346

     the aid of the victims who were left homeless,

     destitute and in dire straits; and

 (5) identifies and invites all those individuals,

     especially Air Force pilots and crews who played an

     extremely courageous and noble role in saving

     thousands of babies, women and children to visit

     Parliament and receive our commendation.

Agreed to.


                       (Draft Resolution)


without notice:

 That the House -

 (1) notes that the FIFA Technical Inspection Delegation,

     led by Mr Allan Rothenburg, is in South Africa to

     assess the country's preparedness to host the

     prestigious Soccer World Cup in 2006;
14 March 2000                                  Page 196 of 346

 (2) recognises that a successful bid would signify an

     important advancement of the noble objectives of the

     African Renaissance;

 (3) acknowledges the high standards of South African and

     African soccer, as well as the large number of

     Africans who are competing at international levels

     and that our soccer arenas are among some of the best

     in the world; and

 (4) appeals to Mr Rothenburg and his team to strongly

     recommend to FIFA that South Africa be considered to

     host the World Cup 2006 on behalf of and for Africa.


Agreed to.

                     APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 29 - Sport and Recreation:


Deputy President, colleagues, it is indeed an honour for me
14 March 2000                                Page 197 of 346

to address this august House in this my maiden budget

speech at the end, almost, of my first year in office. I

would like to reflect on what has been a very busy year in

the Ministry and in the Department of Sport and Recreation.

I would also like to give hon members some insight into the

path ahead that I am contemplating for my area of


The year 2000, as hon members are aware, is a watershed

year for Sport and Recreation in South Africa, given the

fact that the SA Sports Commission and the new, smaller

organisational component for Sport and Recreation will

assume their full-scale operations on 1 April. This

represents a new dawn for Sport and Recreation that will, I

am very confident, take the institution to new heights in

our country. I shall return to this matter a little later


Allow me, first of all, to contextualise my approach to

Sport and Recreation for my term of office. Hon members are

aware of the approach of the Government of integrating its

initiatives in striving to improve the quality of life for

all South Africans. It is envisaged that by combining or

integrating the efforts of various Government departments,
14 March 2000                                Page 198 of 346

we shall be able to make a greater impact on the lives of


Sport and recreation form part of the social and

international relations, as well as of the governance and

administration sectors. It is my intention to take sport

and recreation to the centre stage of these domains. It is

my view that sport and recreation have been trivialised, or

have been considered to be a luxury, for too long. As a

global phenomenon, sport has a significant impact on many

spheres of social life, including the economy. Indeed,

regarding the latter, I am proud to announce that the

latest research shows that the contribution of sport and

recreation to the GDP has increased from 1,9% in 1997 to 2%

in 1999. It is estimated that it is worth R15 million. If

capital expenditure is included, the contribution rises to

R16 million or 2,1% of the GDP.

Sport and recreation provide employment for some 34 000

full-time and 6 000 part-time workers, as well as about

8 000 volunteers. We therefore sideline sport and

recreation at our own peril. Sport has always been

something of a stepchild, when it comes to the allocation

of Government resources. We, however, understand why that
14 March 2000                                   Page 199 of 346

has been, and still is, the case, for there are very many

other areas that require Government's urgent and immediate

attention. Government, however, has been, and always will

be, committed to ensuring access to sport and recreation

for all South Africans and to create opportunities and

eliminate backlogs in this regard in the disadvantaged

sectors of our society. Impediments to such access are some

of the legacies of apartheid and I shall strive tirelessly

to eliminate them.

I am nevertheless dissatisfied with the budgetary

allocation for Sport and Recreation. I am looking at the

Minister of Safety and Security, and he is smiling at me

because he knows what I am talking about. Our baseline

allocation for the 2000-2001 financial year of R54 million

constitutes 0,025% of the national Budget, and translates,

from a national perspective, into a per capita annual

expenditure of approximately R1,20. This can never be

satisfactory. I shall continue to fight for a bigger piece

of the cake and, believe me, we shall get it.

I believe that the merits of our case will in turn be based

on the impact or the outputs of our endeavours on broader

Government objectives that we strive to contribute to. We
14 March 2000                                Page 200 of 346

tend to pay lip service to the potential of sport and

recreation to contribute to nation-building and the like.

We shall, however, have to invest more substantially in the

institution, if we are to realise such benefits.

We shall, however, not adopt a crybaby approach because of

our budgetary allocation. Rather, we shall strive to unlock

the additional resources required to meet the needs of

sport and recreation ourselves. The fact that we are one of

the five good causes that will benefit from the national

lottery will go some way towards achieving that end.

Moreover, the SA Sports Commission was also created with

the aim of securing additional resources for sport and

recreation to try to eliminate the shortfall. The White

Paper on Sport and Recreation that was produced in 1998 is

as relevant today as it was when it was launched.

While we are in the process of considering the next cycle,

we are confident that this policy document will run the

full course of the five-year life for which it was

intended. My confidence is based on the consistently close

relation between the priorities of Government today and

those identified in our White Paper.
14 March 2000                                Page 201 of 346

The social sector constitutes our core cluster in

Government. We are committed to utilising the medium of

sport and recreation to contribute to the establishment of

a humane, caring, deracialised and nonsexist society. We

shall therefore participate vigorously in the joint effort

to, firstly, alleviate poverty; secondly, provide a safety

net by targeting the most vulnerable in our society; and,

thirdly, eliminate all forms of discrimination against


I have requested our Women in Sports programme to redirect

their energies to ensuring that more women participate in

sport and recreation, and that the level of their

performance is raised at the same time. We are in the

process of amending legislation that prohibits women from

participating in certain sporting codes, so as to ensure

that we are in sync with the Constitution of our country.

[Applause.] I am referring, of course, to women's

involvement in boxing. Our Constitution is described as a

model all over the world. If we fail to respect its

provisions, however, we will render the supreme law of the

country meaningless.

While speaking about the Constitution, I would like to warn
14 March 2000                                Page 202 of 346

sports administrators - and we have a lot of them -

athletes and participants sitting in the gallery, that no

constitution of any international sports organisation,

including that of the International Olympic Committee, is

above the supreme law of this country. [Applause.] I will

definitely come back to this, because at the moment there

are burning issues, that concern Athletics South Africa,

hockey and the Gymnastics Federation of South Africa.

Fourthly, we will take immediate steps to look at the

impact and slow down the rate of the spread of HIV/Aids

within our country. Sport provides a captive audience for

spreading messages about the dangers of HIV/Aids and for

educating people to ensure that the spread of the pandemic

is contained. Moreover, the status of role models in sport

among the youth of our country provides us with a strong

vehicle for getting that message across. We have been

actively involved in the interdepartmental HIV/Aids forum

and we will continue to do so.

We have drafted and revised our position statements on

HIV/Aids and sport, and we have spread the message

throughout Africa in this regard, through the recent All

Africa Games that were held in Johannesburg, where we drove
14 March 2000                                Page 203 of 346

a very successful campaign amongst participating athletes.

We regularly advise athletes who compete internally and

abroad about the dangers of the disease and about

appropriate preventative measures to avoid contamination.

Fifthly, with regard to integrated rural development and

urban renewal strategies, our involvement in the creation

of physical infrastructure and the provision of programmes

both in the rural areas and inner cities is manifold. Our

facility-creation project, addressed by means of RDP funds,

was biased towards the rural areas. Sadly, however, this

project has come to an end because funds have dried up. We

are, however, proud of having built nine multipurpose

indoor sports facilities and more than 300 multipurpose

outdoor sports facilities across the country with the funds

that were put at our disposal. This is one domain, however,

in which we shall strive to find additional resources, as

our project has only made a slight dent in the huge backlog

that exists for sports and recreation facilities,

especially in disadvantaged areas.

Our problem with regard to facilities in South Africa is

not about how many facilities we have or the quality

thereof, but rather about the distribution of these
14 March 2000                                Page 204 of 346

facilities. Provision is skewed to the urban advantaged and

predominantly white areas. We are in the process of

developing a national facility plan aimed at ensuring that

the right facilities are built in the right places at the

right time. It is also intended to ensure that the general

community makes the numerous facilities that lie dormant

for large parts of the day available for use. I am thinking

here of school facilities, private clubs, facilities at

military bases and the like.

We have dedicated programmes for establishing sustainable

sport and recreation facilities in the rural areas, and a

new project we have is aimed at rekindling indigenous

sport. That programme is bound to promote increased

participation and contribute to the restoration of the

dignity of our people by reviving elements of culture that

have been denigrated and, in many instances, crushed. We

are targeting the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and the

Northern Province for pilot projects in this regard. To

this effect, we have employed a person at director level to

co-ordinate this. Indigenous sport is also very close to

our President's heart.

We are also looking at human resource development. We are
14 March 2000                                Page 205 of 346

committed to the development of the human resource base

within my department and Ministry in order to ensure high

levels of service delivery to all our clients. We will

strive to invest in the development of those responsible

for delivery at grass-roots level through the provision of

training and refresher courses that will not only equip

people to serve communities better, but will also equip

them in such a way that their acquired skills are

transferable to other domains, thereby increasing their

employability rating.

We are also in the process of establishing a standards

generating body, or SGB, that will relate to the SA

Qualifications Authority's National Qualifications

Framework. This will provide national recognition for

certification in the various fields of sport, including

sports medicine, fitness, coaching, officiating, management

and administration, outdoor recreation and adventure, and

so forth.

We are also participating actively in the tourism and

hospitality sector education and training authority in

order to ensure that we derive the maximum benefit from

opportunities that will be generated from this initiative.
14 March 2000                                 Page 206 of 346

Of course, human resource development in sport and

recreation does not relate to deliverers only. On the

contrary, the beneficiaries benefit from their inputs and

the athletes and participants develop themselves. We

constantly strive towards the development of talent amongst

our youth so that they can also have access to the huge

economic benefits that can be derived from direct and

indirect participation in sport. Our projects, in this

regard, include, amongst others, the talent identification

programmes of Sisa.

Our life skills programmes for athletes who excel in their

sport   strive to prepare them for the economic, social and

other rigours that go along with the exposure to top-class

international competition, and the high performance

programme prepares our athletes physically, emotionally,

nutritionally and otherwise for high level participation

and numerous other development programmes. Once again, in

all these programmes, our focus is biased towards

vulnerable groups.

We would like to contribute also towards combating

corruption. We believe that participation in sport, in

whatever capacity, can contribute towards combating
14 March 2000                                Page 207 of 346

corruption. The demands that we place upon our national

federations in terms of having to account for the public

funds that we entrust to them provide ample evidence in

this regard. While in many instances we are not even

speaking about the misappropriation of funds, we regard

deviations from contractual agreements in a serious light.

I have not and will not, in future, hesitate to take action

against individuals and federations that do not live up to

public expectations in terms of the tasks that have been

entrusted to them. We shall be doing more regular

performance audits on our clients in future. Our clients,

in this instance, are national federations. To date, I have

already intervened in the unsatisfactory state of affairs

in boxing, soccer and Sanrec during my short spell as

Minister of Sport and Recreation, and we will do so in any

sport where corruption or maladministration may rear its

ugly head in future. I am not apologising for this to


We also want to strengthen social partnerships and

community participation within sport. We are also looking

at regional integration through the institutions of SADC as

a platform for launching the African renaissance. Members

will agree with me, I am sure, that the hosting of the 7th
14 March 2000                                Page 208 of 346

All Africa Games in September last year was a highlight of

our sporting calendar and provided a launch pad, from a

sporting perspective, for the African renaissance. The fact

that it was the biggest All Africa Games, with 52 countries

and a total of more than 6 000 athletes competing in some

21 different sports, provides ample proof of our

reacceptance into the African family of nations. The

quality of the event, from an organisational perspective,

as well as the performances of our athletes, proved

unequivocally that the African renaissance can indeed be


Our membership of the Supreme Council for Sport in Africa,

Zone Six, the technical arm for sport of SADC, reflects our

commitment to the region. Indeed, we have been requested by

the SADC countries to assist them with hospitality

facilities at the Sydney Olympic Games this year. I am

considering this request. Moreover, our presidency of the

Supreme Council for Sport in Africa has provided us with

the unique vantage point from which to drive the African

renaissance, from a sports perspective, on the continent.

We have also been combating racism and addressed the

question of representivity in sport. Last year my
14 March 2000                                Page 209 of 346

department held a conference to address the question of

racism in sport. I was saddened by the realisation that

where sport was once at the forefront of transformation and

integration in our society, we have fallen behind in this

regard. At the conference we developed a charter on no

racism in sport that will be observed by the entire sports

fraternity of this country. I hope to include the question

of racism in sport in the national and international

conferences on racism that are being planned for South

Africa later this year.

On the question of the representivity of our sports teams,

I have made my position absolutely clear. Our national

representative teams will be chosen strictly on merit. I

will, however, keep a close watch on developments in this

regard, and trust that the federations will ensure that the

best teams are indeed selected. The national federations

are acutely aware that the country is keeping them

responsible for ensuring that our teams are competitive

internationally. However, at the same time, they should

continually strive to ensure that they reflect the

demographics of the South African society. This

representivity and transformation within sport is non-

negotiable. At the levels below the national representative
14 March 2000                                Page 210 of 346

teams, we will actively create opportunities for players

from disadvantaged backgrounds to gain access to elite


I am happy to announce that in the several meetings that I

have held with major sports federations, I have received

unanimous support in this regard. Indeed, national

federations have signed performance agreements, or

performance contracts, with me in which they undertake to

make teams as representative as possible. I shall hold them

to these contracts, and measure the extent to which they

realise their targets within one year.

One of the priorities in the area of international co-

operation concerns the marketing of South Africa globally.

Given its pervasive nature, as well as the prominence of

our sports teams in the international arenas of the world,

sport provides us with one of the most unique opportunities

for marketing our country abroad. Our sportspeople have

over the years been our best ambassadors, and we shall

strive to use that medium to expand the country's profile.

Our bid to host the 2006 World Cup in soccer provides

another opportunity to turn the eyes of the world on South
14 March 2000                                Page 211 of 346

Africa, as members have seen. We are happy to announce that

the Government of President Mbeki is fully supportive of

the bid, and that we hope for a positive outcome to the

process. [Applause.] We wish the bid company well in its

endeavours to secure this prestigious competition for South

Africa, and we wish to place on record our sincere

appreciation for their efforts thus far.

Our success in hosting major sporting events, such as the

1995 Rugby World Cup, the 1996 Africa Cup of Nations and

the Seventh All Africa Games, confirms, unequivocally, our

capacity to host sporting events of this magnitude. Here I

also wish to thank the members, the colleagues, Cabinet

members and all sports-loving people of this country, who

today have shown where their passion lies with this

particular World Cup bid. [Applause.] I think we will have

quite a good team coming out of Parliament - a mixed team

of both ladies and gentlemen, with Shenge as the captain.

[Laughter.] [Applause.]

An HON MEMBER: Laduma! [Goal!]

The MINISTER: Allow me to focus on a number of sport-

related issues that have arisen during my brief spell as
14 March 2000                                Page 212 of 346

Minister, and which I shall continue to deal with during

the coming year. The House will recall that we have had to

intervene in certain federations that were experiencing

crises in one form or another. These include the SA

National Boxing Control Commission and the SA Football

Association as well as the professional league.

I am happy to announce that the boxing commission has

appointed a committee to investigate the alleged misconduct

of the CEO of the SANBCC, and the soccer authorities have

provided me with a comprehensive report on their

activities, in respect of the various matters that I raised

with them during our several meetings. I am presently in

contact with them to clarify some of the issues raised in

the report, and I am very confident that the matter will be

concluded very shortly.

In the same breath, I also should mention that the issue of

the under-23s, Amaglug-glug, is also an issue that we are

busy discussing, and I am hoping that by the time the team

goes to Guinea, it will be a full strength team.

[Applause.] I must stress, however, that we will strive to

clean up sport, where there is corruption and where

administrators have built their individual fiefdoms.
14 March 2000                                Page 213 of 346

If a particular sport does not move or budge, we will use

all our persuasive powers to make them move. As a very

handsome Minister, I will just smile at them and they will

move. With regard to the SANBCC, boxing, we will host a

one-day indaba this coming Friday. That should set that

structure on a course that will see the sport returned to

its previous, pre-eminent status. At that meeting, we will

discuss the draft boxing control Bill, that I shall be

introducing to Parliament later this year. The new Bill

will replace the existing Act that was first introduced in

1954 - older even than some of the people here in


Various internal problems that have affected unity within

certain federations, and that I have managed to deal with,

have emerged. These include life-saving and karate. I have

also been in intense discussions with the National Olympic

Committee of South Africa, Nocsa, with regard to our

representation at the Olympic Games in Sydney later this

year. I am very happy to announce that we have made

substantial progress in this regard as well, and that a

full team, Team South Africa, will be announced very soon.

At the risk of being repetitive, let me confirm that we
14 March 2000                                Page 214 of 346

stand a very good chance of winning the soccer bid for

2006.[Applause.] The report that we got from Robben Island

just now is a glowing report of what has happened during

the past five days in South Africa, and that seems to be

very good for us. I would also like to take this

opportunity to congratulate, as I did, the CEO of the bid

company, Mr Danny Jordaan, on the excellent work that he

has done in putting South Africa's case to the world.

[Applause.] We, therefore, look forward to a positive

outcome on 6 July.

On the question of physical education and sport, I am happy

to announce that he minister of Education, Kader Asmal, and

I have made considerable progress with regard to the issue

of physical education and sport in our schools. We are

committed ensuring that these activities are restored to

their rightful places in the programme of all schools in

South Africa. I am convinced that, for pupils from

disadvantaged communities, physical education and school

sport provide the one certain opportunity in their lives to

gain access to sport and recreation.

We are planning a joint summit on physical education and

school sport in June this year that will chart the course
14 March 2000                                Page 215 of 346

ahead. We shall be meeting with the representatives of

teachers unions to get their buy-ion and commitment to the

process. I call upon teachers to do their utmost to ensure

that this initiative succeeds. It is in the interests of

our youth and our country. It is no accident, I believe,

that schools with an established culture of learning are

also those schools with an established sporting culture. We

have agreed to place competitive school sport and school

leagues under the Department of Sport and Recreation,

provincially and nationally. The curricular side of sport

will be under provincial and national education.

As far as sport broadcasting is concerned, we often refer

very glibly to the potential of sport to build the nation.

If sport can in fact fulfil such a role - I believe that it

can - then it is imperative that everybody should have

access to at least those matches in which our national

teams participate. Unfortunately, the recent trend has been

for the pay TV channels in South Africa to acquire

exclusive rights for broadcasting matches involving the

national teams in certain sports. The majority of the

people in our country are therefore excluded from seeing

our teams play as they do not own decoders or satellite

dishes. This is totally unacceptable. [Interjections.]
14 March 2000                                Page 216 of 346

[Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms N R BHENGU: Madam Speaker, Deputy President, Ministers

and hon members, the time for Africa to host the Soccer

World Cup could not have been earlier than when the whole

African continent was free from colonialism. [Applause.]

The time for Africa can no longer be delayed. The lives of

our youth who may perhaps have participated in sport and

recreation, like their counterparts the world over, were

cut short by apartheid-sponsored political violence. We are

specifically referring here to the Solomon Mahlangus,

Hector Petersens, Portia Ndwandwes and scores of our youth

who might have participated in the favourite pastime. Yet

others who are already making an imprint in their sports

discipline, such as the respected Kaizer Chief captain, Pro

Khongoane, had their lives made by apartheid state

violence. Others, under threat of violence, harassment and

detention, were forced to leave their homes and live as

refugees in foreign lands. Yet others, such as Jomo Sono,

Kaizer Motaung and Sugar Ray Xulu, to mention just a few,

who might have been giants on the world stage, never had

that opportunity.

It is to these that the world has an obligation. They must
14 March 2000                                Page 217 of 346

not fade from our memories. We dare not fail them. They

should honour them by giving the World Cup to South Africa.

[Applause.] The Fifa delegation has seen what South Africa

can offer.

Babheme bakholwa kubhuquzisana ezikamagebhula neSundowns

eKings Park ngeSonto, ebigcwele ichichima ingangoZulu eya

emakheni. [They were satisfied with the match between

Orlando Pirates and Sundowns at Kings Park Stadium, which

was full on Sunday.]

If there were doubts about our people's passion for soccer,

those have been laid to rest. Our people love the game. The

whole nation supports the Year 2006 Cup Bid. Our objective

is to transform sport, which was structured along racial

lines both at administrative and player levels. We have

specific objectives of making facilities accessible to all,

including the rural communities and the disabled people.

We also have the objective of making all sports codes

accessible to all people, including women and the disabled

of South Africa. We need to facilitate development

programmes that will result in a wide pool from which we

can select players to represent us in all sports codes. We
14 March 2000                                Page 218 of 346

also need to facilitate representivity in our national

teams to reflect the true demographics of our country.

The ANC was voted into power mainly by the disadvantaged

masses of our country as the only party that can provide

them with a better life. The budget we are debating today

is a commitment by the Government to the masses of South

Africa for a better life. Sport is designed to make people

feel happy and interact as equal counterparts, yet it so

happened in South Africa that sport was structured along

the racial divide. Sport should be seen as a vehicle for


The Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation has

undertaken two provincial study tours this year, one to the

Free State and the other to the Eastern Cape. In the

Eastern Cape we were exposed to the uneven level of

facilities. The facilities of the coloured community are of

a better quality and standard. Mdantsane has facilities of

an inferior quality and standard. Facilities in the rural

areas of Tsolo, Ngqeleni and Idutywa are also different

from those of Mdantsane township. At Qwaqwa in the Free

State, there are 230 schools, but only three have school

facilities. This indicates that there was an uneven level
14 March 2000                                Page 219 of 346

of delivery by the previous government. This budget seeks

to address these imbalances.

The Government is correct in adopting the ANC policy of

making facilities accessible to all South Africans,

regardless of their race, colour or creed. The Government

is committed to providing facilities with a specific focus

on the previously disadvantaged communities, as a way of

bringing them to the level of other groupings. However, we

want to mention the fact that the budget for sport has

never been enough. We would urge the Government to

seriously look at this and consider increasing the budget

to meet the needs on the ground.

Ndithi mandibulele koomama nootata baseDebe Nek eMpuma

Koloni. Inkundla yezemidlalo eyakhelwa abantu bala lali

icoceke ngeyona ndlela. Icocwa ngoomama nootata ngezandla

zabo bengajonge ukuba ibe ngurhulumente kuphela omakazise

imali. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Aba mama naba tata bazi

ngokupheleleyo ngephulo likaMasakhane. Kunga nezinye

iindawo zingayibona le nto bayenzileyo abantu baseDebe Nek

nazo ezo ndawo ziyenze kuba loo Rhulumente ngurhulumente

owonyulwe luluntu. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph

14 March 2000                                Page 220 of 346

[Let me thank the men and women of Debe Nek in the Eastern

Cape. The sportsground that has been built for the people

in the area is exceptionally clean. Men and women clean it

with their own hands, without expecting Government alone to

donate funds. [Applause.] These men and women have thorough

knowledge of the Masakhane campaign. I hope that people

from other areas take note of what the Debe Nek people have

done and do the same, because this is a Government that has

been elected by the people.]

In the Free State the Government has invested R3 million in

Phuthaditjhaba Stadium. That stadium has been vandalised,

indicating lack of community ownership of facilities that

have been provided by the Government. Maintenance of

facilities should not be seen as the responsibility of

Government alone. Communities also have a role to play.

In conclusion, I would like to speak on indigenous sport.

We find ourselves today in a situation where we are not

able to quickly respond with clear explanations when

confronted with the question of indigenous sport. This did

not happen by mistake. It is a result of a system which was

created for the purpose of taking away from African people

their cultures, their African values and their African
14 March 2000                                Page 221 of 346

pride and replacing these with Western cultures. [Time

expired.] [Applause.]


speaker is making his maiden speech. Please give him all

the courtesy he deserves. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr N J CLELLAND: Mr Chair, 24 June 1995 was the day when I

first comprehended the amazing transformation South Africa

had undergone. We were one nation, a winning nation with

one vision and identity. It was not the day of our first

democratic election. It was the day we won the Rugby World

Cup and South Africa was on top of the world. As I walked

along the Durban beachfront, the electric vibe of joy,

friendship and a common and proud South Africaness

permeated the air. This is the power of sport: to unite

people across the great divide of history as South


Today our country faces another opportunity to host a world

cup, this time for the world's most representative and

democratic sport - soccer. I want to tell this House and

the country that the DP proudly and enthusiastically

endorses our bid and will do whatever it takes to ensure
14 March 2000                                Page 222 of 346

its success. [Interjections.] While this sort of event can

go a long way towards developing South African sport, there

is still much to be done. Sadly, the apartheid legacy has

deprived children from many communities of participating in

sport, at either a competitive or social level, and this

needs to be addressed.

Schools must have adequate sporting facilities and the

young people of all communities, black and white, Indian

and coloured, rural and urban, must be afforded the

opportunities to take part. Sports development must be

prioritised. Furthermore, our most successful sportsmen and

women must be recognised and promoted as a credit to our

country. This has not been the situation with regard to the

South African men's hockey team and the decision not to

send them to the Olympic Games.

I am keenly sensitive to the political pressures sporting

federations now labour under. But I seldom comment, and do

not feel that politicians should be involved in telling

sportsmen or selectors what to do. But I have to comment on

the refusal by Sam Ramsamy and the NOSC to send the hockey

team to the Olympics, despite the fact that it has won the

Africa Cup and is rated in the top seven in the world. In
14 March 2000                                Page 223 of 346

many other sports we are sending much weaker competitors to

the Olympic Games. Mr Ramsamy said in his announcements

that the problem was that, although the squad had seven

members from previously disadvantaged groups, this was not

enough and was not sufficiently demographically


What he was saying is that race is what ought to count, not

merit. Saying that the hockey team cannot go because too

many people in it have the wrong sort of skins is racism.

There is no other word for it. It is also saying that the

only way that one could sent a team abroad is if one is

willing to abandon the principle of merit selection and

deliberately pick a weaker team, which would then guarantee

that one loses because the rest of the world would

definitely pick their team on merit. It will also guarantee

that our talented sportsmen and women of the wrong colour

start drifting abroad. Already, we can see this beginning

to happen.

We want to host all manner of international events, from

the Olympics to the soccer and cricket world cups. These

bring in a lot of money for South Africa, but people like

Mr Ramsamy will really have to be careful because this sort
14 March 2000                                Page 224 of 346

of apartheid-era racism is a straightforward denial of the

Olympic Charter and the whole spirit of the Olympics, which

says that one has to be completely colour-blind and that

individual achievement is all that matters. No country that

ever wants to host the Olympics games can afford to behave

in this way.

The sporting world has never really got over the 1936 Nazi

Olympics in Berlin. Even then, Hitler's clearly racist

policies led to pressure for the boycott of those games.

The sporting world never got over the shame of the Olympics

in the way that Jesse Owens, the world's finest athlete was

shunned by the Nazis because he was black or was the wrong

colour. If we too start discriminating against our

sportsmen because they are the wrong colour, like Verwoerd

and Vorster used to do, we will be in real trouble. I could

not care what colour our national sports teams are. I want

them to be the best.

So, let us focus on sports development to ensure future

success for South African sportsmen and women. Let us

ensure the success of our national teams now by making sure

that they are picked on merit. Their successes only serve

to fuel the development of and interest in sport throughout
14 March 2000                                  Page 225 of 346

the country. That is the vision of a common, liberal and

colour-blind South Africaness all of us should have. I am

looking ahead to the new liberal nation which we know has

to come - a nation that puts both white and black racism

behind it and which is proud of all its talented people,

wants the best and wants to win. [Applause.]

Mr E T FERREIRA: Mr Chairperson, there is no adhesive in

our country that can bond South Africans together as one

nation as sports can do. Where politicians and churches

have failed, sport has succeeded.

As a sport-mad nation, whether in large stadiums, pubs or

their own homes, South Africans of different cultures,

languages and persuasions feel as one when they watch our

national sportsmen and women compete against other

countries. Sport, as one of our premier national assets

should be nursed and promoted in a much more serious and

aggressive manner than what has been the case up to now.

Sport has obvious advantages to our country, and one of

them is delivering tremendous tourism potential to South

Africa. Can one imagine the tourism to this country in the

next 10 years, should we get the 2006 World Cup Soccer
14 March 2000                                Page 226 of 346

Tournament? There is no reason why we should not get it.

Our facilities, infrastructure, stadiums, hotel

accommodation and whatever one wants compare very well to

that of any of the European bidding countries.

The 1995 Rugby World Cup held in South Africa is generally

regarded as the best Rugby World Cup ever. I would like to

believe that there is no reason to believe that we cannot

do the same for soccer in 2006. Government should not be

shy to invest much more money in sport, as the returns on

their investment will be tremendous.

We in the IFP will be supporting the national Sport and

Recreation budget, although we are in no way convinced that

the budget is sufficient. There are cities in the world

with bigger sport budgets than what our national sport

budget is. Munich is a classic example. We do, of course,

understand that Government has a moral dilemma. Morally it

could be very difficult to defend a budget of hundreds of

millions of rands for sport, taking into account the

demands on departments such as Education, Housing, Health

and Welfare. We should not, however, allow a premier asset

like sport to be neglected.
14 March 2000                                Page 227 of 346

Given the shortage of funds and financial support for our

sportsmen and sportswomen, it is quite incredible what a

great sporting nation we are. We must really congratulate

our sports federations and all our sportsmen and

sportswomen on this feat. We are world class in the vast

majority of sporting codes that we have in this country. I

must admit, though, that the results from the past weekend

do not quite reflect this.

As far as representivity in sport is concerned, there could

be no dispute that we still have a very long way to go.

Equally, we have come a long way since the days of window-

dressing. People such as Breyten Paulse, Paul Adams,

Hezekiel Sepeng and many others have proved that the

majority of South Africans need no special favours to

perform at the highest level. What they need are good

facilities, proper training and equal opportunities. Our

under 21 rugby world cup winning team from last year is a

classic example of this.

The IFP policy on sport and recreation has always been that

good facilities are the key to getting our nation to play.

Good facilities, however, need to start at school level.

Many young South Africans turn to drugs, crime and baby-
14 March 2000                                Page 228 of 346

making because of the limited availability of sporting and

recreational activities. This does not justify their

behaviour, but it does at least partially explain it.

Much more should be done by the Department of Education as

far as school sport facilities are concerned. Our portfolio

committee is currently in the process of visiting different

provinces - as we have heard from the chairperson, Mrs

Bhengu - and we are looking mainly at facilities. On a

visit to the Free State recently, we saw some things that

were very refreshing and some things that were very


It was very clear that the provincial government and

national Government were doing plenty to supply and upgrade

sports facilities in rural areas. At the same time though,

local government then failed to maintain these facilities.

In Botshabelo we saw a stadium good enough for

international events, whereas in Qwaqwa we saw a very

similar facility in such a state of ruin that the local

people cannot make use of it. What is extremely disturbing

about this particular facility is that it has a R2,3

million synthetic soccer pitch that is going to waste. It

seems to be a general problem in our country that
14 March 2000                                  Page 229 of 346

provincial governments play the game, but local governments

do not arrive at the party. I would like to plead with our

charismatic Minister of Sport and Recreation who I often

think would make a good evangelist, to use his influence in

getting local governments to do their share.

Much has been said lately about the broadcasting of major

sporting events on the public broadcaster. It is indeed sad

that the majority of South Africans very often cannot see

their national sporting heroes take part in major events.

The issue is very complex and certainly not as easy as many

of us would like it to be. The IFP will, however, fully

support the process that has been put in motion to ensure

that, in the not too distant future, all South Africans can

see major sporting events on their television sets.


please be seated, including Mr Aucamp. Please be seated.


Mr C M MORKEL: Mr Chairperson, Mr Minister, Deputy

Minister, Ministers, members of the Portfolio Committee on

Sport and Recreation, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, I

want to start off by saying: Viva, Fifa! [Laughter.]
14 March 2000                                Page 230 of 346



should not start in the House. [Laughter.] Please continue,


Mr C M MORKEL: As a complete novice to the Portfolio

Committee on Sport and Recreation, I started out by asking

myself the following questions: Has the Minister of Finance

allocated enough of his Budget to Sport and Recreation? Has

the Minister of Sport and Recreation prioritised the

allocation of funding the sports codes and recreational

sectors on the basis of an accurate needs analysis? Is the

public funding ... [Interjections.]


please realise that this is the House in which debates are

conducted, and decisions taken. There should be no laptop

computers or any other such tops in this House. If you are

busy, sir, please take it to your office ... I am waiting

for you. [Laughter.] Thank you! Please continue, sir.

Mr C M MORKEL: I also asked myself: Is the public funding

that has been, and will be, allocated to Sport and

Recreation administered in such a way that it would
14 March 2000                                Page 231 of 346

minimise any corruption or financial mismanagement, or

maximise performance and excellence in the physical

development of the people of our nation and facilitate the

great sense of unity and national pride that we felt with

the Rugby World Cup in 1995 and the Africa Cup of Nations

in 1996?

At this stage, it would suffice to say that sport and

recreation should be given a greater priority as an area of

Government's integrated development programme. The Minister

should note that it is unacceptable that only 0,025% of our

national Budget is spent on Sport and Recreation. It is

unacceptable that this translates into R1,20 per capita

spent. However, the hon Minister should note that too much

funds are allocated already, but unspent by his department.

We need to monitor this so that it does not happen again in


I realise that this is not necessarily the Minister's

fault. Yet, we need to recognise and acknowledge that sport

and recreation teach us - especially in the absence of

complete family units - the rules and skills of the game of

community life, of national life and of our life in Africa.

Respecting the rules of the game is the best form of
14 March 2000                                   Page 232 of 346

developing a democratic culture and an appreciation of the

rule of law that is apparently absent in the moral fibre of

our nation.

We are a developing nation that is in the process of

developing a democratic culture and an appreciation of the

rule of law. Unfortunately, a democratic culture and the

rule of law also seem to be lacking in the administration

of many of our sporting codes, even, in certain cases, in

the Department of Sport and Recreation itself. In the

recent budget briefing by the Department of Sport and

Recreation, and upon reflection on the Auditor-General's

Report on the financial statement of the department, the

following emerged in terms of needs analysis.

We need to take into account the degree of private sector

funding to Sport and Recreation, so that we can identify

what needs still remain. Financial needs cannot therefore

be analysed accurately, and I therefore do not believe that

enough public funds could ever be allocated accurately to

needs that have been identified and determined accurately.

We need to have a clearer definition of what national

interest is. Sporting codes of national interest need to be

defined more clearly and we, as a portfolio committee, will
14 March 2000                                Page 233 of 346

be participating in that debate with the Minister.

History has taught us that where the process of excellence

and development is flawed, the outcome is bound to be

flawed. It is by participating in sport and recreation that

we develop notions of excellence based on performance and

merit - notions that we can apply in every avenue that we

walk in life.

The New NP is committed to the development of the necessary

skills to be a winning nation, and to performing at our

peak in the pursuit of excellence. It is an acceptable

principle that our sporting codes should represent and

include administrators, coaches and players who reflect the

diversity of our rainbow nation.

Yet, we are faced with the challenge of confusing

excellence and merit with a legitimate need to develop

representative national teams. It is a challenge. We

therefore need to develop generic and quantifiable

performance criteria that would establish the targets for

selection on the basis of merit. Too often selection

committees ... [Time expired.]
14 March 2000                                Page 234 of 346

Mr R D PIETERSE: Chairperson, hon Deputy President, hon

members, colleagues and the DP, when we promised a better

life for all a rightful expectation on the question of

service delivery was created. We are talking about the

delivery of houses, water, electricity, roads, safety and

security, jobs, etc. But what about sport and recreation?

When we were accepted back into the fold of the world, we

were literally caught with our pants down in terms of

sport. We have to accept that sport has become an industry

and that all our people must be exposed to this industry in

terms of participating as athletes and as administrators.

Sport, if properly governed and guided, must and will

become another option for employment.

We pride ourselves on being a gender-sensitive nation, and

I agree that it is true. However, there are certain areas

of concern. Women athletes participating in the various

sporting codes very seldom, if ever, get the recognition

which they deserve. An example of this is our national

women's soccer team. Who can still remember them? Nobody

talks about them. Is this the state of affairs only because

they are women? Women athletes are often referred to as the

Cinderellas of the sport industry. As the Minister said
14 March 2000                                  Page 235 of 346

earlier, currently boxing for women is outlawed in terms of

the Boxing and Wrestling Control Act of 1954 and this needs

to be brought in line with the Constitution.

Ek glo absoluut dat vrouens beter atlete is of kan wees as

mans. Die vroue soek net 'n geleentheid om dit te bewys. [I

absolutely believe that women are, or can be, better

athletes than men. They are merely seeking an opportunity

to prove it.]

We need to level the playing field in terms of women and

sport. I think this budget starts to address that. We need

to ensure that the present facilities are upgraded in order

to allow women and disabled people to use the very same

facilities as any able-bodied man.

Ek wil 'n beroep doen op die media, sowel elektronies as

geskrewe, om seker te maak dat almal wat aan sport deelneem

gelykwaardige dekking ontvang. Die Minister verwys na die

Afrika-Spele van verlede jaar, maar ek onthou dat ons 'n

gestremde atleet van die Wes-Kaap gehad het wat die

wêreldrekord in borsslag geslaan het. Die Maandag het die

nuus 30 sekondes daaraan bestee. Dinsdagoggend het ek

verwag dat 'n Kaapse koerant dit ten minste sou dek, maar
14 March 2000                                Page 236 of 346

nee. Tot my groot verbasing was die gesig van André Agassi

op die voorblad, want hy het die Amerikaanse Ope

tennistoernooi gewen. Nou vra ek myself weer die vraag af:

was dit omdat die persoon gestremd is dat niemand van hom

gepraat het nie? Nie een van die koerante het iets daaroor

berig nie, selfs nie die Kaapse koerante nie. Waar is hulle

lojaliteit teenoor ons vroulike en gestremde atlete? Ek glo

en weet ons het gestremde wêreldkampioene in sport in dié

land, maar niemand praat direk of indirek van hulle nie. Ek

wil eintlik sê dat hulle dubbele kampioene is as 'n mens in

ag neem dat hulle eers persoonlike, strukturele en ander

uitdagings moet oorkom voordat hulle hul sport kan beoefen

en goed kan vaar in kompetisies.

Tydens my onlangse besoek aan die vloedgeteisterde en -

beskadigde dorpe in die Klein Karoo, waar my kiesafdeling

ook is, is ek blootgestel aan skade aan die strukture wat

my baie na aan trane gehad het. Dit was die ergste wat ek

nog gesien het. Die grootste pyn het ek egter later

ondervind toe ek so deur die dorpsgebied van Bergsig en in

Ladismith loop en sulke opgeskote kinders daar sien speel.

Ek het eers gedink die vloed het daar deur ook gekom, maar

toe ek met hulle praat, ontdek ek dat die kinders nog maar

al die jare daar speel. Daardie plek was erger as wat die
14 March 2000                                Page 237 of 346

vloedskade kon aanrig, want niemand het voorsiening gemaak

vir sport en ontspanning vir hulle nie.

'n Week of twee gelede het die agb Maxwell Moss 'n

sokkerwedstryd bygewoon waar twee Kaapse sokkerspanne op

Nuweland gespeel het. Omdat daar geen fasiliteite en

geriewe vir gestremde mense is nie, moes hy alleen op die

veld langs die kantlyn sit in sy rolstoel. Sy familie en

vriende wat hom na die wedstryd vergesel het, moes ná baie

oor en weer stryery op die paviljoen gaan sit, want hulle

wou hulle nie toelaat daar langs hom nie. Hulle kon net met

die rustyd afkom om vir hom koeldrank of kos te gee, maar

toe moes hulle weer teruggaan paviljoen toe. (Translation

of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I want to make an appeal to the media, electronic as well

as written, to ensure that everyone participating in sport

receives equal coverage. The Minister referred to last

year's All Africa Games, but I remember that we had a

disabled athlete from the Western Cape who broke the world

record in the breast stroke. On that Monday the news

devoted 30 seconds to this fact. On the Tuesday morning I

was expecting a Cape newspaper at least to cover it, but

no. To my great amazement the face of André Agassi was on
14 March 2000                                Page 238 of 346

the front page, because he had won the American Open tennis

tournament. Once more I now ask myself the question: Was it

because the person was disabled that nobody mentioned him?

Not one of the newspapers mentioned a thing about it, not

even the Cape newspapers. Where is their loyalty towards

our female and disabled athletes? I believe and I know that

we have disabled world champions in sport in this country,

but nobody is talking about them, either directly or

indirectly. I would actually say that they are double

champions if one considers that they first have to overcome

personal, structural and other challenges before they can

pursue their sport and do well in competitions.

During my recent visit to the flood-ravaged and damaged

towns in the Little Karoo, where my constituency also lies,

I was exposed to damage to structures which had me very

close to tears. It was the worst I have ever seen. However,

I later experienced the worst pain while just walking

through the township of Bergsig and through Ladismith and

watching adolescents at play. At first I thought that the

flood had also reached there, but when I spoke to them I

discovered that the children had always been playing there.

That place was worse off than what the flood damage could

have wrought, because nobody had made provision for their
14 March 2000                                Page 239 of 346

sport and recreation.

A week or two ago the hon Maxwell Moss attended a soccer

match when two Cape clubs played at Newlands. Because there

are no facilities for disabled people, he had to sit alone

in his wheelchair on the field next to the touchline. After

lengthy arguments to and fro, his family and friends who

had accompanied him had to go and sit in the grandstand,

because they were not allowed to stay with him. They were

only allowed to come down during half-time to give him a

cold drink or food, but then they had to return to the


I think there are thousands of Maxwell Mosses outside in

our community. Thousands of Maxwell Mosses, as well as

women, are facing the same challenges. We cannot and will

not allow this situation to continue. The better life for

all must reach all the people who have given a mandate to

this Government. The better life, in particular, must

address the challenges facing women and the disabled in

sport and recreation.

I want to place on record that while there are challenges

in sport and recreation, everything else is not doom and
14 March 2000                                Page 240 of 346

gloom. Again, this budget has started to address issues.

Die vroue en die gestremdes van Suid-Afrika, die

plattelanders van hierdie land, die mense van Vanwyksdorp,

Ladismith, Zoar, Calitzdorp, Bongolethu, Uniondale en die

ander plekke in die Karoo sê hierdie Begroting begin nou om

hulle probleme aan te pak sover dit sport en ontspanning


Ek wil my volle steun uitspreek teenoor die Ministers van

Sport en Ontspanning en van Finansies en hulle

departemente. 'n Beter lewe vir almal sover dit sport en

ontspanning aangaan, met die klem op vroue en gestremdes,

sal en moet verwesenlik word.

Ek wil ook my volle steun aan Danny Jordaan en sy span gee

vir die uitstekende werk wat hulle doen met betrekking tot

die bod om die Wêreldbeker-sokkertoernooi in 2006 in Suid-

Afrika aan te bied. Afrika is gereed, Suid-Afrika is gereed

en ons gereed.

Ons het saamgestem toe president Mbeki gesê het ons is op

koers. Dié begroting bevestig dit, maar ons moet ook seker

maak dat die lewering van sport- en ontspanningsgeriewe
14 March 2000                                Page 241 of 346

bespoedig word. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans

paragraphs follows.)

[Women and the disabled of South Africa, the rural people

of this country, the people of Vanwyksdorp, Ladismith,

Zoar, Calitzdorp, Bongolethu, Uniondale and the other

places in the Karoo are saying that this Budget has now

started to address their problems as far as sport and

recreation are concerned.

I would like to express my full support for the Ministers

of Sport and Recreation and of Finance and their

departments. A better life for all as far as sport and

recreation are concerned, with the emphasis on women and

the disabled, can and must be achieved.

I also want to pledge my full support to Danny Jordaan and

his team for the excellent job they are doing with regard

to the bid to host the Soccer World Cup tournament of 2006

in South Africa. Africa is ready, South Africa is ready and

we are ready.

We agreed when President Mbeki said that we were on course.

This Budget confirms that, but we must also ensure that the
14 March 2000                                Page 242 of 346

delivery of sport and recreational facilities is speeded

up. [Applause.]]

Mr C T FROLICK: Mr Chairman and hon members, the Vote for

Sport and Recreation seems minuscule, given the tremendous

challenges facing the department. For the department to

achieve its aim to improve the quality of life of all South

Africans through the promotion of sport and recreation, it

will need the assistance of all South Africans.

The provision in the budget for the SA Sports Commission to

become fully operational is welcomed, given the tremendous

role it should play in the advancement of sport in all

sectors of society. Equally, the increase in the grant to

the SA Institute for Drug-Free Sport is commendable,

although we believe that funds must also be channelled, not

only for policing the athletes through dope testing, but

also for proper prior communication with athletes and

coherent educational programmes at schools to prevent the

occurrence of drug scandals amongst our athletes.

The increase in trial payments to macro bodies, federations

and recreation providers should enhance their operations.

However, the UDM believes that proper financial control
14 March 2000                                Page 243 of 346

mechanisms must be implemented and enforced to ensure that

recipients are accountable for funds transferred to them.

Audited financial statements must be submitted at national

and especially at provincial level before new transfers are


The budget makes no provision for facilities as that is

supposed to be the responsibility of local government

authorities. Study tours to provinces have shown that

although millions of rands were previously spent on

building new facilities, local government authorities are

often reluctant, and in certain instances bluntly

unwilling, to maintain such facilities. The result is that

these facilities are vandalised, and ultimately become

white elephants.

The UDM believes that a partnership must be forged between

all tiers of government, federations, and communities to

ensure co-ordination in the planning, building, maintenance

and utilisation of facilities. In so doing, communities

will own the process. The Debe Nek Sports complex in the

Eastern Cape is a good example of community ownership and

the result is mass participation in all sports codes

throughout the week. Sadly, this is lacking elsewhere.
14 March 2000                                Page 244 of 346

In conclusion, we as South Africans have been afforded the

opportunity to unleash our unbridled passion for sport

while hosting the Fifa technical committee for the past

five days. The 2006 Bid Committee, under the leadership of

Danny Jordaan - who is also, incidentally, from the Eastern

Cape - has proved that our facilities, officials and

administrators can hold their own with the very best in the

world. By uniting as South Africans we have indeed

demonstrated our preparedness, passion and ability to host

the 2006 Soccer World Cup. [Applause.]

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Chairperson, South Africa is in the race

to develop itself to compete at the highest levels. The

nation has dedicated itself to developing initiatives. Our

economic policies are boosting confidence in the South

African way forward. The IMF recently intimated as much.

South Africans have a great hunger to succeed and this has

been shown in the sporting arena. South Africa has the

capacity to support itself to host any event in this


The All Africa Games have come and gone, and although there

were problems, ours were small compared to those of Atlanta

in the last Olympics. To the Fifa delegation we say: We are
14 March 2000                                Page 245 of 346

ready. We have the necessary infrastructure in place to

host the 2006 Soccer World Cup in South Africa. With South

Africa having been admitted to the sports world, the

formation of unified multiracial sports structures and

management, as well as the introduction of development

programmes, must be implemented down to the lowest levels.

This must be one of the critical tasks of the SA Sports

Commission, which must ensure that national, provincial and

local teams reflect the demographics of South Africa.

Sport deserves a more equitable and workable budget from

Government. The Department of Sport and Recreation must

play a strong role in the way money is used and allocated

to federations, and measures must be implemented against

those who do not adhere to the criteria set out in the

funding policy. Provincial departments of sport and

recreation play a critical role in assisting communities in

becoming active participants in sports, not only through

funding and developing sport, but through taking pride in

and ownership of their sports facilities. In the Free State

town of Qwaqwa two sports facilities are in a bad

condition. In 1994 President Mandela addressed the

community at one of the stadiums. [Time expired.]
14 March 2000                                Page 246 of 346

Mr G E BALOI: Chairperson, sport is an international

phenomenon and is very important for every developing

nation. It is important in our country, South Africa. Every

nation is proud of its sport. In South Africa we have

different kinds of sports, namely football, rugby, cricket,

volleyball - you name them. Sport in the years of

oppression was not inclusive at all and discriminated

against people racially. South Africa plays an important

role in developing sport internally and internationally.

The Department of Sport and Recreation in South Africa, led

by the hon the Minister Ngconde Balfour, is structured into

two programmes for the 2000-01 budget in order to perform

its functions. Each programme has its budget. These

programmes are administration, and sport and recreation.

The aim of the administration part is to conduct the

overall management of the department. The programme also

has a staff complement of 38 posts. The aim of the sport

and recreation part is to render support to the SA Sports

Commission, the SA Institute for Drug-Free Sport, the

National Olympic Committee of SA, the National Sport and

Recreation Federation, and other service providers. This

programme has a complement of 12 posts.
14 March 2000                                Page 247 of 346

South Africa wants to host the 2006 World Cup and we are

ready to do so. We have all the necessary requirements to

qualify. The Fifa committee of six has seen for itself and

must go back to tell Fifa that there is no doubt the 2006

World Cup is coming to South Africa. [Interjections.] God

help South Africa in its attempt to host the 2006 World


Mr N B FIHLA: Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon MPs and

comrades, on Sunday afternoon, 12 March, two great giants

met at the Absa stadium. The soccer-loving people of South

Africa voted overwhelmingly on their feet for the hosting

of the 2006 soccer extravaganza. Today, the Sport and

Recreation portfolio committee, on behalf of Parliament, as

representative of the people of South Africa, is saying:

Europe, you have had your many turns for hosting the soccer

championships. It is now the turn of Africa, and South

Africa is as ready as ever. [Applause.]

Coming back to the subject matter of today, sports have

played a pivotal role in building bridges between the

nations of the world since time immemorial. During the

period of slavery and thereafter in the feudal system,

sport was merely for entertaining slave owners and
14 March 2000                                Page 248 of 346

landlords respectively.

It was the Athenians and Spartans who came with a new

philosophy for the youth of the day. They came up with the

ideal of building a healthy nation and a principle of a

sound mind in a healthy body. At this present era, sport

has become all embracing. Sportspersons have become

ambassadors of their countries, goodwill instruments for

big businesses, role models of the youth of today. It

creates lasting careers for our children. The policy of

sports for all and ultimately of closing the huge gap

caused by the great divide of the past regime, can only be

brought about by effective concentration of our resources

in our disadvantaged schools.

Since the introduction of the hateful Bantu Education

system in 1954, in South Africa, school sports in our

African schools has deteriorated to zero. Sport today has

become the property of big business. Sportspersons today

can become millionaires at a very young age. There are so

many subtle ways in which children coming from the

disadvantaged community can be discriminated against and

are therefore not able to reach the top.
14 March 2000                                Page 249 of 346

Lack of facilities in the disadvantaged areas is prevalent.

We do not find specialist teachers in sports as trainers in

our schools. As a result, very few teachers are having any

serious commitment to sports. Also there is no compulsory

period for sports activities in their daily timetable. In

the plan for the building of new schools, various

facilities must be in place, eg tennis courts, rugby

fields, soccer fields, swimming pools, gymnasiums and table

tennis facilities.

Sports facilities like swimming pools and gymnasiums ought

to be in place in all primary schools, as top swimmers and

gymnasts are produced at the very young age of between 11

to 14 years. That is a great handicap we have in the

disadvantaged schools. Nevertheless, we do appreciate the

introduction of sports academies in the various provinces.

This will be a quicker way of identifying talent at an

early age.

School sports, managed properly, will create mass

production of talent from amongst the disadvantaged

schools. We do not know whether Ussasa is in a position to

tackle this huge challenge at schools. At present there are

hardly 10 sporting codes that our disadvantaged schools are
14 March 2000                                Page 250 of 346

exposed to a country where there are more than 20 sporting

codes. This is the challenge facing today's sporting

developers and that can only be tapped from the schools.

It is high time that sport and recreation are part of the

school curriculum as they used to be in our days. We also

congratulate the Department of Sport and Recreation on

creating a special trust fund that is to aid those children

from the disadvantaged communities who happened to be

selected to national teams but do not have enough funds to

travel to other countries.

Dr L LUYT: Mr Chairman, hon Minister and members, the FA

has already expressed its support for South Africa's bid

for the 2006 World Cup in writing. But I do so again today,

unequivocally. I have said it before and I say it again: We

have everything, yes everything, it takes to host any event

in this country, most of all, very enthusiastic people.

In 1994 I fought tooth and nail to keep the Rugby World Cup

in South Africa. We were told of violence, a bloodbath and

a lack of sophistication to host that event. Not only did

we prove them wrong, but after four World Cups, South

Africa still reigns supreme, both in administration and
14 March 2000                                Page 251 of 346

support. We shall demonstrate it again in 2006.

One thing I find very disturbing, though, is that there is

a perception that a creeping regulatory tendency has

started to rear its ugly head in our sport. If South Africa

ever wants to become a major factor in world sport, it must

allow the self-regulatory system to take its course.

The hon Minister Balfour is the epitome of enthusiasm. He

must not stifle that. In fact, he should be supported and

kept enthusiastic. One cannot, however, be regulator,

manager, coach and selector of sporting teams at the same

time. After all, we have a Bill of Rights which must be

respected. I believe the hon the Minister, with his

enthusiasm, should coax and cajole people in the right

direction, not use a big stick.

We are a mere six years down the line, but we already

expect miracles. In another eight years the six-year-old

disadvantaged sportsperson of 1994 will be as skilled and

gifted as his white counterpart, if not better.

We live in a professional era and sportsmen and women have

to be paid for their services. Television payments are the
14 March 2000                                Page 252 of 346

single most important contributor towards funding the

professional athletes. It is not simply a matter of

outlawing pay TV and dismissing international contracts as

if they did not exist. On the contrary, international law

dictates our adherence to these agreements. Unless we have

an alternative in place, I suggest we think again.

An area into which the Minister could inquire - and no

commission of inquiry, please! - is the situation in which

one company now has the de facto control over eight of the

14 unions in Sarfu. I had sight of two of these contracts,

which not only fly in the face of the International Rugby

Board regulations, but put rugby's future and its control

in great jeopardy. Rugby people must control rugby, and

this is the same with any other sporting code.

The Minister certainly has shown that he loves his sport.

Therefore he should allow normal sport to evolve normally.

He has the personality to achieve this. For this direction

he will receive the support of all sportsmen and

sportswomen. The FA also gives him its support.

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek wil vandag begin met

'n aanhaling en dit lui soos volg:
14 March 2000                                Page 253 of 346

 Joe Slovo het 'n paar jaar gelede gesê daar gaan twee

 revolusies in Suid-Afrika wees. Die tweede gaan onder die

 voorwendsel van transformasie geskied. Hy was so reg,

 want rassisme in 'n graad wat ek myself nie kon indink

 nie, is besig om die Verenigde Krieketraad van Suid-

 Afrika oor te neem.

Aan die woord is nie die een of ander sogenaamde regse wat

``homesick'' raak oor die goeie ou dae van apartheid nie,

maar Mnr Ray White, voormalige voorsitter van Krieket Suid-

Afrika. Miskien is sy van dalk verkeerd! Hy gaan verder:

 Toe die nasionale span die mini-wêreldbekertoernooi in

 Bangladesj en die goue medalje by die Statebondspele

 gewen het, was daar geen woord van gelukwensing van die

 Regering nie. Al wat ek gehoor het toe die goue medaljes

 aan die spelers uitgedeel word, is hoe dit dan moontlik

 is dat die span so leliewit is.

Kom ons gaan verder. Die Suid-Afrikaanse manshokkiespan

word deur die Ramsamy-mafia verhinder om aan die Olimpiese

Spele deel te neem, terwyl hulle die Afrika-kampioene is en

in alle opsigte kwalifiseer. Hulle het net een toets gedop,

naamlik die pigmentasietoets.
14 March 2000                                Page 254 of 346

Nog 'n voorbeeld is dr Louis Luyt hier in ons midde; 'n man

wie se organisasie van die Wêreldbeker-rugbytoernooi in

1995 dalk die enkele grootste pluspunt kan wees ten gunste

van die huidige sokkerbod vir 2006. Daar is nie gerus

voordat hy uit Suid-Afrikaanse rugby uitgeskuif is nie, met

as sogenaamde rede sy verset teen die daarstelling van 'n

kommissie waarvan daar in elk geval niks gekom het nie.

Wat sê al dié dinge vir ons? Eenvoudig dat die ANC in sy

totalitêre strewe nie die basiese fundamentele onderskeid

tussen die burgerlike en die staatlike terrein eerbiedig

nie. Elke enkele terrein van die lewe moet verstaatlik

word. Rugby en krieket word onderwerp aan 'n magdom kwotas

ten gunste van spelers van kleur. Meriete word oorboord

gegooi. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Ek het nog nooit van 'n kleurkwota ten gunste van blankes

in sokker gehoor nie. Is dit nie die doodnormaalste ding op

aarde dat sekere bevolkingsgroepe 'n historiese geneigdheid

tot sekere sportsoorte het nie? Wanneer gaan ons regulasies

kry dat elke boereorkes in die land minstens 'n

konsertinaspeler van kleur moet bevat?

Die sleutel tot die maksimale oopmaak van sportgeleenthede
14 March 2000                                Page 255 of 346

lê nie by kunsmatige ingrype deur die staat nie, maar as 't

ware daarby dat die beginsels van die vryemark eerbiedig

moet word. Kwotas druis daarteen in en het 'n bose

kringloop tot gevolg: swakker spanne lei tot swakker

kompetisie, wat tot swakker toeskouergetalle lei, wat tot

minder geld vir ontwikkeling lei.

Ja, ons is ten gunste van ontwikkeling, nuwe geleenthede en

geriewe waar dit ontoereikend is. Die wyse waarop die ANC

egter met 'n Big Brother-gesindheid met hierdie basies

kulturele uiting van die menslike gees en liggaam omgaan

spel maar net die ou dwaling uit wat sê: ``Die staat is

gans die land''.

Is dit werklik die staat se taak om so in die burgerlike

samelewing in te gryp? Daar moet in 'n verantwoordelike

regering onderskeid getref word tussen die staat- en die

burgerlike sfeer. Die owerheid mag nie op die nie-staatlike

terrein dikteer nie, anders word dit 'n magstaat en nie 'n

liberaal-demokratiese regstaat nie.

Ek wil met 'n verdere punt afsluit. Hier rig ek my tot ons

sportsterre, ons administrateurs en ons media. Daar is nie

'n enkele terrein waar Afrikaans so geminag word as juis
14 March 2000                                Page 256 of 346

rondom die sportveld nie. Afrikaanse rugby- of

krieketkommentaar op televisie word beperk tot enkele

anekdotes. [Tussenwerpsels.] Onderhoude met Afrikaanse

sportmanne en -vroue geskied in Engels ...

[Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs


[Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairperson, I want to start today with a

quote and it reads as follows:

 Joe Slovo het 'n paar jaar gelede gesê daar gaan twee

 revolusies in Suid-Afrika wees. Die tweede gaan onder die

 voorwendsel van transformasie geskied. Hy was so reg,

 want rassisme in 'n graad wat ek myself nie kon indink

 nie, is besig om die Verenigde Krieketraad van Suid-

 Afrika oor te neem.

The person speaking is not some or other so-called right-

winger who is homesick for the good old days of apartheid,

but Mr Ray White, the former chairperson of Cricket South

Africa. Perhaps he has the wrong surname! He goes on to


 Toe die nasionale span die mini-wêreldbekertoernooi in
14 March 2000                                Page 257 of 346

 Bangladesj en die gou medalje by die Statebondspele gewen

 het, was daar geen woord van gelukwensing van die

 Regering nie. Al wat ek gehoor het toe die goue medaljes

 aan die spelers uitgedeel word, is hoe dit dan moontlik

 is dat die span so leliewit is.

Let us go further. The South African men's hockey team is

being prevented from participating in the Olympic Games by

the Ramsamy mafia, although they are the African champions

and qualify in every respect. They only failed one test,

namely the pigmentation test.

Another example is Dr Louis Luyt who is sitting here in our

midst; a man whose organisation of the Rugby World Cup

tournament in 1995 may be the single biggest plus in favour

of the present soccer bid for 2006. Everything possible was

done to get him out of South African rugby, the reason

advanced being his opposition to the establishment of a

commission of which nothing came in any event.

What does all this tell us? Simply that the ANC, in its

pursuit of totalitarianism, does not respect the basic

fundamental difference between the civil and the

governmental spheres. Every single sphere of life must be
14 March 2000                                 Page 258 of 346

governmentalised. Rugby and cricket are being subjected to

a multitude of quotas in favour of players of colour. Merit

is being thrown overboard. [Interjections.]

I have never heard of a colour quota in favour of whites in

soccer. Is it not the most normal thing on earth that

certain population groups have an historic inclination to

play certain sports? When are we going to have regulations

stipulating that every boereorkes in the country must at

least have a concertina player of colour?

The solution to opening up sporting opportunities to the

maximum does not lie in artificial interference by the

state, but, in actual fact, in honouring the principles of

the free market. Quotas run counter to this and a vicious

circle is created: weaker teams lead to weaker competition,

which leads to lower numbers of spectators, which leads to

less money for development.

Yes, we are in favour of development, new opportunities and

facilities where these are inadequate. However, the way in

which the ANC is, with a Big Brother attitude, dealing with

this basic cultural expression of the human spirit and

body, merely spells out the old misconception: ``Die staat
14 March 2000                                Page 259 of 346

is gans die land''. [The state is the entire country.]

Is it really the task of the state to interfere in civil

society in this way? In a responsible government a

distinction must be drawn between the governmental and the

civil spheres. The state may not dictate in the

nongovernmental sphere, otherwise it becomes an

authoritarian state and not a liberal democratic nation

under law.

I want to conclude with a further point. Here I am

addressing myself to our sports stars, our administrators

and our media. There is not a single sphere in which

Afrikaans is held in such contempt as on the sports field.

Afrikaans rugby or cricket commentaries on television are

limited to a few anecdotes. [Interjections.] Interviews

with Afrikaans sportsmen and women take place in English

... [Interjections.]]


Nash, allow the member to have his say at the podium.

Everybody needs to play sport and everybody needs to speak

about it. Please allow him the opportunity. Please

14 March 2000                                Page 260 of 346

Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairperson,I like the applause.

Ons boerseuns het nou skielik Stormers, Cats en Bulls

geword. Ons rugbykaptein stel hom teen dié tyd seker al aan

sy eie skoonma voor as ``Van der Westhousen''.

Sport kan 'n magtige katalisator wees tot beter

verhoudings, ook in 'n multikulturele samelewing. Ons moet

net pasop dat die teenoorgestelde nie vandag gebeur nie.

[Tussenwerpsels.] [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of

Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Our Afrikaner boys have now suddenly become Stormers, Cats

and Bulls. By this time our rugby captain is probably

introducing himself to his own mother-in-law as ``Van der


Sport can be a powerful catalyst for better relations, in a

multicultural society too. We must just be careful that the

opposite does not happen today. [Interjections.] [Time


Mnu I Z NCINANE: Mhlalingaphambili, abaphathiswa namalungu

ale Ndlu yoWiso-mthetho, le nto kuthiwa kukuphatha
14 March 2000                                Page 261 of 346

iyaphazamisa, ngoba kudala abamhlophe bangenelela

kwimicimbi enxulumene nezemidlalo, kuba le ndoda isuka apha

icinga ukuba yinto entsha le. Into ekuyiyo kukuba

babengenelela phantsi kwekhwapha.

Olu hlahlo lwabiwo-mali lwalo nyaka lwahlukile kwamanye

kuba indili yemali isetyenziswe kunqontsonqa kanye

wezomdlalo. Akukho bumenye-menye nabuqhekre-qhekre

obuchithwe eziofisini nakwezinye iindawo zokonwaba.

(Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows).

[Mr I C NCINANA: Mr Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon members

of the National Assembly, this thing called power corrupts.

Whites interfered in sport-related matters for quite some

time, but the man who has just left the podium things it is

something new. What happened is that they interfered in an

underhand manner.

This year's budget is different from other budgets in that

the bulk of the funds is used for the essence of sport. No

funds have been spent on luxurious offices and glitzy


[Mr I Z NCINANE: Mr Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon members
14 March 2000                                Page 262 of 346

of the National Assembly, this thing called power corrupts.

Whites interfered in sport-related matters for quite some

time, but the man who has just left the podium thinks it is

something new. What happened is that they interfered in an

underhand manner.

This year's budget is different from other budgets in that

the bulk of the funds is used for the essence of sport. No

funds have been spent on luxurious offices and glitzy


The debate today makes history as it is the first of its

kind in the new millennium, with a new Minister in this

department. Prior to the dawn of the African century this

House converged specifically to promulgate the law that

began to redress the imbalances of the past, ie the South

African Sports Commission Act. Since then our country has

come on a par with the international community in terms of

sports, especially the top countries that are leading the

world rating, that is America, Canada, New Zealand,

Australia etc.

As we enter the 21st century and the new millennium, we

must take the centre stage in term of the realisation of
14 March 2000                                   Page 263 of 346

the African century. As the writer Amilcar Cabral says, and

I quote:

 When the 20th century has been completed, we come to the

 conclusion that there is little doubt that we will fail

 in describing it as the century of revolution.

Therefore, as hon members of this House, it is incumbent on

us to drive forward the struggle for a national democratic

revolution in which we say: `` A better life for all.''

This is linked to the Freedom Charter's statement that

``The people shall share'' - even facilities.

The SA Sports Commission will be able to generate funds on

its own and actually assist the Department of Finance in

terms of revenue generation, thereby giving a financial

boost to disadvantaged smaller sporting codes, such as

judo, karate, aquatic fishing, netball, fencing and stick

fighting. [Laughter.] On the other hand, we as the ANC

Government will legislate checks and balances and measures

for prominent codes that are generating millions of rands

from business partners and stop them getting away with

14 March 2000                                Page 264 of 346

I therefore call on companies and businesspeople to support

the Sports Commission the same way they supported over the

past few years the Sports Trust led by Bruce Fordyce in

Johanessburg. Through the SA Sports Commission our

department will be able to take care of twinning

arrangements, which are part of international relations.

This will help in mass mobilisation of our sports and help

fulfil the theme of our current White Paper: ``Let the

nation play.''

The time has come for us as Government to monitor and

regulate all phases of delivery in favour of our people,

who need administrative skills to run their own rural

sports clubs, and to empower coaches and referees in order

to realise our efforts that started in the dark and bitter

days of Sacos and the NSC. Because we could unify various

sporting codes across racial lines, the Sports Commission

will get fertile ground.

Prophets of doom and mischief-makers camouflaged their

secret agendas in sport in order to achieve their dirty

political goals. As a result, ever since the wolf in

sheep's clothing, in the name of Dr Louis Luyt ...

[Interjections] ... was pushed out of rugby by the scruff
14 March 2000                                  Page 265 of 346

of his neck, through the window, rugby has normalised. Now

it is beginning to take good shape. I thank Dr Louis Luyt

for going. [Interjections.] So we congratulate the NSC ...


please withdraw the words ``wolf in sheep's clothing''.

Mr I Z NCINANE: I withdraw them. [Laughter.]

We congratulate the NSC on bringing Dr Louis Luyt into open

politics, which is better than what he was involved in -

secret politics, which he practised in the name of rugby

under the dirty blanket of full nepotism at Ellis Park and

in Newlands. [Interjections.]

I call on the hon the Minister to legislate and impose

quota systems on all national teams. I hear the Minister

say that the national teams are selected on merit. There is

a lot of resistance to change and transformation.

An HON MEMBER: Speak louder, we cannot hear you!

Mr I Z NCINANE: Master of ceremonies ... [Laughter] ... the

system of merit is biased ... [Interjections.]
14 March 2000                                Page 266 of 346

The quota system should be forced on cricket with immediate

effect as cricket is now an embarrassment to this country,

because the way they lost to India recently clearly shows

that they would rather lose with a hopeless lily-white team

than have black Makhaya Ntini, Mpitsang or Tsolekile in the

squad. The team has suffered many injuries but they will

not call up black cricketers. [Interjections.] Their bad

attitude needs to be dumped, because the legacy of Ray

White must be stopped. He, together with the cricket

management, was suffering from political malnutrition.


I must congratulate the hon the Minister for sometimes

quietly jumping into controversies in some of the sports

codes and settling disputes that would have done a lot of

damage to sport in this country. But I also call on the hon

the Minister to jump with his heavy stomach and kick the

Comrades Marathon Association on their cheeks to stop them

from privatising the sport to the benefit of their white

supremacy in Pietermaritzburg. [Laughter.]

I must bring to the attention of this House that the

Comrades Marathon Association has been clinging to the old

order of discrimination for the past several years.
14 March 2000                                Page 267 of 346


your time has expired. However, remain at the podium. Sir,

it is not parliamentary to accuse any member of nepotism,

unless you have absolute proof of that. So, please withdraw

the words with which you directly accused members of the

House of nepotism. Alleging it is something different.

Mr I Z NCINANE: I gladly withdraw. Chairperson ...


also expired, sir.

Mr I Z NCINANE: Oh! Thank you, very much. [Applause.] May

God bless you!

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, on a point of order:

The expression ``a wolf in a sheepskin'' in Xhosa is

``ingcuka eyambethe ufele lwegusha''. Sisaci eso neqhalo

lesiXhosa. Ndicela ukwazi ukuba ingaba ilungu eli

linelungelo lokuyisebenzisa? [This is a Xhosa idiom or

proverb. I would like to know whether this member has a

right to use it.]

14 March 2000                                Page 268 of 346

that is not a point of order and the hon member was

speaking in English, which has a different connotation

entirely. [Laughter.] Please be seated.

Adv P S SWART: Chair, Minister, I hope the sound system is

still working after that! This is a debate about a Vote and

it is, therefore, only fitting and proper that the emphasis

should be on the financial aspects of this specific


Hiermee impliseer ek nie vir 'n oomblik dat ons uit die oog

moet verloor die belangrike rol wat sport en ontspanning in

hierdie land speel in die heropbou van 'n nasie, die

bevordering van nie-rassigheid en die spesifieke klem op

die welvaart van al die mense van ons pragtige land nie.

Geen suksesvolle program van nasiebou kan egter in isolasie

gesien word nie. Die finansiële implikasies en koste aan

die belastingbetaler moet altyd in oorweging geneem word.

Ons leef in 'n land waar een slagspreuk bo alle ander

uitstaan as gevolg van die agterstande van die verlede,

naamlik dié van lewering. Dit veroorsaak dat die koek

dikwels te klein is vir al die snye. Besondere klem moet

dus gelê word om die beperkte toedeling wat 'n spesifieke
14 March 2000                                Page 269 of 346

departement ontvang optimaal te benut en te bestuur. Dit is

ongelukkig juis hier waar die probleem lê. (Translation of

Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[With this I am not implying for one moment that we should

lose sight of the very important role which sport and

recreation play in this country in the reconstruction of a

nation, the promotion of nonracialism and the specific

emphasis on the prosperity of all the people of our

beautiful country. No successful programme of nation-

building can, however, be seen in isolation. The financial

implications and cost to the taxpayer should always be

taken into consideration.

We live in a country where one slogan stands out above the

rest as a result of the backlogs of the past, namely that

of delivery. The consequence of this is that the cake is

often too small for all the slices. Specific emphasis

should therefore be placed on utilising and managing the

limited allocation which a specific department receives to

the optimum. It is unfortunately precisely here that the

problem lies.]

Last week the Public Accounts Committee discussed the
14 March 2000                                Page 270 of 346

report on the financial statements of Sport and Recreation

by the Auditor-General for the year ended 31 March 1999. I

shall only highlight certain problems that were noted and

which clearly indicate a lack of proper financial control.

The Minister asked for a bigger slice of the cake. This

report reflects on his predecessor, but there are valuable

lessons to be learnt.

With limited funds available, surely the most disturbing is

that for the past three financial years the department

surrendered annual unspent funds, which indicates

inaccurate financial planning or the failure to achieve

objectives. For the 1998-99 financial year 13,4% of the

appropriation was surrendered by the department, which

amounts to more than R13 million not spent on the

objectives it was intended for. This translates into

nondelivery to our people. Furthermore, apart from

unauthorised expenditure in excess of R36 000, in five

instances amounts were paid out to sporting bodies without

their financial statements for the previous year being in


Die gemelde sake dui op 'n spesifieke probleem met die

interne ouditering van die departement. Om dit te bevestig,
14 March 2000                                Page 271 of 346

moes die betrokke komitee verlede week verneem dat hoewel

die departement 'n interne ouditafdeling het, funksioneer

hierdie afdeling nie as gevolg van die vakante status van

die twee goedgekeurde poste.

Verskeie antwoorde is aangebied, maar uiteindelik is erken

dat indien die beskikbare gekwalifiseerde persone aangestel

sou word, dit tot gevolg sou hê dat die rassekwota van die

departement nie bereik word nie. (Translation of Afrikaans

paragraphs follows.)

[The matters mentioned point to a specific problem with the

internal auditing of the department. To confirm this, the

particular committee learnt last week that although the

department has an internal audit section, this section is

not functioning as a result of the fact that the two

approved posts are vacant. Various answers were given, but

eventually it was admitted that if the available qualified

people were appointed it would result in the racial quota

of the department not being reached.]

Although we as the DP believe in transformation and

rectifying the injustices of the past, we can never support

certain primary positions not being filled owing to quotas,
14 March 2000                                Page 272 of 346

especially an important function such as the internal audit

section of a department. This should not be dysfunctional

for more than a year.

Die finansiële bestuur van die betrokke departement is nie

na wense nie. Die DP versoek die Minister om onmiddellik

toe te sien dat die nodige poste gevul word en kontroles in

plek gestel word om behoorlike, deursigtige finansiële

bestuur te verseker. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of

Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The financial management of the particular department is

not as it should be. The DP is requesting the Minister

immediately to see to it that the necessary posts are

filled and that controls are put in place to ensure proper,

transparent financial management. [Time expired.]]

Mr H P CHAUKE: Mr Chairperson, firstly, I would like to

congratulate the Minister on his appointment and say that

it took the DP and the NP six years to understand the ANC's

policy on sport and recreation. But I am quite happy that

the young blood that has just joined the DP and the NP is,

in fact, able to come forward and support the ANC in its

cause of making sure that the nation will play.
14 March 2000                                   Page 273 of 346

My participation today in this debate marks the beginning

of our call on all members of Parliament, as they go to

their constituencies, to mobilise the masses based on the

campaign that we have just started in Parliament today, and

to build on this momentum that we have created. The Chief

Whip and I have agreed that we will be meeting with the

leaders of other parties to arrange a programme whereby

members of Parliament will participate in sports on what we

are going to call a parliamentary sports day.

Firstly, this Vote is about increasing the level of

participation of South Africans in sport and recreation

and, secondly, about maximising the probability of the

success of our sportspersons in major sporting events. I

think I need to raise one point that was raised by Cassie

Aucamp. The problem is that he is alone in his party. If

there were somebody with him to attend sport and recreation

portfolio committee meetings, he would be able to

understand that all these parties are not supporting just

for the sake of supporting, but because they understand the

vision, aims and objective of where we want to go.


It is important that we address the question of sport
14 March 2000                                 Page 274 of 346

development and the role of federations. There are very few

federations that are taking this matter seriously. We still

have a problem of transformation with some of them, for

example those for cricket, netball and hockey.

[Interjections.] In the case of a federation such as the

soccer body, which is doing quite well, it is not a

question of not having black people or white people playing

soccer, but, clearly, it is because they are integrated.

There is a lot of integration by that federation within the

white community.

The only one we are struggling with at present is rugby,

and, as Comrade Ncinane correctly said, one has to push

some of these federations. It is our duty as members of

Parliament. We have to push some of these federations,

because at the end of the day we understand the objective

of a sporting nation. If they themselves are involved in

making sure that everybody participates in the federation,

they, at the same time, are building the nation. So we need

to play that role as a portfolio committee and that is why

we have been calling on them.   For the past six years we

have been calling on federations to come to us and tell us

what they are doing, but, clearly, one could see that there

is resistance and it is our duty to make sure that we break
14 March 2000                                 Page 275 of 346

down those walls.

I would like to commend the department, because of the

portion of the Vote that goes to the SA Sports Commission.

There have been complaints that Government is interfering

in sports federation programmes and all that, but now we

are going to put in place the SA Sports Commission, which

will be accountable to Parliament. We will be able to call

them, as neutral as they are, to come and account for the

programmes that they are actually monitoring within the


Sports democratisation will be in line with our

Constitution and Bill of Rights, and there is no way in

which we will turn a blind eye to colour disparities, as

Clelland said we should.   Clearly, we have to fight these

things. The hon Clelland knows it himself, from our

experience in the Parliamentary rugby team, that when we go

overseas the team does represent the majority of the people

and the relationship that we have developed. We were

supported even in Europe when we went there, because it was

the first time that they had seen this kind of achievement.

So I think we are slowly beginning to understand that we

are going somewhere.
14 March 2000                                Page 276 of 346

Clearly, the UDM supports the Vote because of the young

chap who has just joined them now, and I wish them well.

But one of the things that I think they need to do is that

when we develop the programme of the portfolio committee,

all of us need to come together so that, at the end of the

day, we do not have questions such as the one raised by the

UCDP that the ANC used the Portfolio Committee on Sport and

Recreation tour in the Free State for constituency work. I

think we need to understand some of these things.

However, all in all, we are going somewhere. All of us can

realise the achievement that we have made in the past six

years. The role that is played by Government and, in

particular, the President of this country in supporting the

bid by calling on all South Africans to support this bid

shows this nation-building that we are talking about.

The other point that I want to raise is very much about the

youth. Our youth are not being engaged in sport because of

the problems of facilities. The partnership that we are

talking about is that when Government builds a facility, it

is the responsibility of local government to maintain that

facility. We are talking about a partnership between the

community and Government, so that when a facility is put in
14 March 2000                                Page 277 of 346

place, the community take the responsibility of maintaining

that facility.

I think this is one of the areas on which we need to engage

our local councillors. As we go back to our constituencies,

we must make sure that we talk to them and that they

understand that sport has a role to play in taking the

youth out of the streets and out of crime.

The last question I want to raise is that recently we went

to a demonstration of female boxing. One of the challenges

that we have to openly accept is that the law that is

currently operational is unconstitutional, and we need to

amend it. But we have to do that very carefully so that we

do not end up doing things that will hamper the whole

process of sports development, which is a very sensitive


I would like to praise the former chairperson of the

portfolio committee on the role that she has played in

building and maintaining the foundation that we are working

on today, and the former Minister of Sport, Mr Fix-it, on

the role that he has played. The foundation that we are

building on today is a foundation that was laid about six
14 March 2000                                Page 278 of 346

years ago. We are building on that foundation gradually,

and, at the end of the day, we are realising the objective.

Our sportspersons all over the country ... [Time expired.]



me, first of all, to thank the portfolio committee under

the very able leadership of umama uRuth Bhengu. I want to

thank her, together with the members of that committee. The

kind of leadership they have given me, having been a member

of that committee myself for some time, has been

tremendous. [Applause.]

Allow me also to thank the MECs who were here with us this

afternoon. They have just left, and are trying to get back

to their respective bases. Within the Minmec, the support

they have given to a rookie Minister has been very good.

I also want to thank the acting director-general in my

department. I have a new ``from-the-box'', as Nxe would put

it, director-general, Prof Denver Hendricks, who is sitting

over there with a lovely tie. [Applause.] He is the acting

director-general, because the contract of the previous

director-general terminated last year. I wish him good
14 March 2000                                 Page 279 of 346

luck. He has gone off to greener pastures.

I would also like to thank the Ministry staff and the

departmental staff who are sitting next to Prof Hendricks,

for the support that they have given. [Applause.] I would

also like to thank the members who have contributed to the

debate on my Vote today. For those members who have made

constructive contributions in particular, I am very

thankful. I welcome all the comments that they have made

this afternoon.

I just wish to say a few things in response. I do not think

I want to comment on the issue of Ray White, because he is

no longer the president of the United Cricket Board of

South Africa. He can holler, he can make a noise and he can

do whatever he likes. He is not the president of the United

Cricket Board of South Africa. I do not intend wasting my

time talking about a sheep in a wolf's skin. [Laughter.] I

am not going to apologise for that, because it is a Xhosa

expression.   I do not apologise for interfering with

federations. They are my clients. I will interfere with

them and give them guidance when they need guidance, and if

the DP does not like that - too bad. [Laughter.]
14 March 2000                                Page 280 of 346

Hon Mr Ferreira is quite right when he says I look and

sound like an evangelist. I am a lay preacher in the United

Presbyterian Church of South Africa. If he could hear me

ndihlabela ingoma [starting a song], he would sit down and

want to listen, because I do sing beautifully. [Laughter.]

[Interjections.] Unyanisile. [You are telling the truth.]

Napcosa is doing a wonderful job regarding the disabled

sportspeople. We are giving all the assistance we can to

Amakrokokroko, our disabled sportspeople. They did well in

the last Games, which was the Atlanta Games. [Applause.]

Now we will be going with them to Sydney. They bring back

medals all the time.

We are very serious about doping, that is, the use of

illegal and banned substances, in sports. To that effect we

are a leading member of Wada, the World Antidoping Agency.

The African continent has two more members, Nigeria and

Egypt, on that body.

We undertake talent identification with the help of all our

national federations. They do it themselves. I must say

that one of the federations which is very good at talent

identification is the SAGF, the SA Gymnastics Federation.
14 March 2000                                Page 281 of 346

They started a programme which will end in 2004. Some of

their programmes have produced athletes who now are on the

verge of selection for the Sydney Games this year. I would

want to commend them for that. I hope we will be able to

assist them with the problem that they are having in

dealing with Nocsa. We are taking the internal audit we had

seriously, and we are looking at it. We hope that it is

going to take us further.

Lastly, if I have a few minutes, I would like to

congratulate a few sportspeople and federations which have

done very well last year: Amanda Coetzer and Wayne

Ferreira, and of course we did remark on Amanda's

hairstyle. Comrade Priscilla Jana would know where it comes

from. They won the Hopman Cup in Australia at the beginning

of this year.

Our lovely queen, Penny Heyns, has broken a number of

swimming records in our country, and we hope she will do

that in the Olympic Games in Sydney later this year.

[Applause.] There is a lovely youngster called Terence

Parkin. Terence cannot speak or hear, but he is one of our

best swimmers in the country. He cannot even hear the gun

when it goes off, but has to see a light going off and then
14 March 2000                                 Page 282 of 346

jump into the water. He is one of our best athletes at the

moment, and we will get a medal through Terence.


The South African cricket team has won the series against

India. We have won the series but we have one-day

internationals that we are battling with at the moment. I

do tend to agree that if we have some injuries, we should

get some players from back home to reinforce the team.

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: What about the Stormers?

The MINISTER: Stormers, Stormers, Stormers. We really

congratulate Bafana Bafana on their bronze medal in the

African Cup of Nations. They played very well. [Applause.]

We also have to congratulate the Springbok team, also on

the bronze from the World Cup in Wales. [Applause.] The

men's hockey team has just come back from Egypt, and they

also have a slight problem which we are looking into.

Hezekiel Sepeng has been very consistent in his


We have a new sensation, Dikeledi Moropane. She is very

young. She is one of the sprinters that we have in this
14 March 2000                                Page 283 of 346

country, and we are hoping to take her with us to Sydney.

[Applause.] We congratulate Baby Jake - the old man - and

Hawk Makepula on the lovely fight they gave us a few weeks

ago. They fought very well and Hawk won. We have to say:

``Come back home,'' to the rhamncwa [beast], Vuyani Bhungu.

Do you know a ramncwa [beast], Mr Chairperson? He tried his

best and gave his all. He should come back home; we still

love him. [Applause.]

We also salute those tireless warriors who give so much of

their time and energy, sometimes without any reward - the

coaches, the officials, the technical assistants and the

volunteers. With their dedication and Sport and Recreation,

we will really reach great heights. We also have to say,

clearly, that we still need the likes of coaches like Trott

Moloto and others to continue with the work that they are

doing. [Applause.] I am not talking about the provincial

games, the Stormers, the Cats, and others. We did not do

well last weekend. Amaglug-glug did us very proud, but we

hope that the other teams, over the coming few months

before the Olympic Games, will really reach the highest

levels of participation in our country.

I want to thank everyone for loving sport and loving all of
14 March 2000                                Page 284 of 346

us in sport. [Applause.]

An HON MEMBER: Laduma! [Goal!]


your reference to a sheep in a wolf's skin is an isiXhosa

expression, and in many other languages in the world too,

there is an expression for that. You are not referring to a

particular individual in this House, that he or she is a

sheep in a wolf's skin, which has an odious connotation.

Therefore, you are ruled not out of order. [Laughter.]


An HON MEMBER: Laduma! [Goal!]

Debate concluded.

                     APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 11 - Foreign Affairs:

The MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Chairperson and hon

members, it is a great pleasure and privilege for me to

stand before this esteemed House and present my first
14 March 2000                                   Page 285 of 346

budget as Minister of Foreign Affairs. I do so with great

humility, as someone stepping into the shoes of that great

son of Africa, the veteran of our liberation movement and

the architect of our foreign policy, the late hon Alfred

Nzo. I pay tribute to his relentless efforts to lay a

foundation upon which I am challenged to build.

I stand before the House at the dawn of the African

century, a time in our history when we as the people of the

continent are resolutely turning our backs on the ugly past

of colonialism, apartheid and oppression, on ignorance,

hunger, disease and poverty, on war and violence, on

intolerance of one another's differences, disregard of

human rights, and absence of democracy. We are turning our

backs on underdevelopment and economic dependency and

poverty. This is our past, which we intend not to lament,

but to convincingly conquer in order to make real the dream

of the African renaissance.

We are under no illusion that its vestiges and legacies

often affront us as obstacles in our resolute cause for a

better future. In doing this, we shall build on the

foundation laid by our forebears, those great

revolutionaries who conquered colonial and apartheid
14 March 2000                                   Page 286 of 346

oppression. Our far-sighted leaders of today have declared

the year 2000 the year of peace in Africa.

They have set themselves the daunting challenge of ending

all wars on the continent. They have unambiguously rejected

military and unconstitutional regimes. As economic

development is central to the African renaissance, they are

implementing the Abuja treaty, whose regional economic

blocs will lead to the formation of the African economic

community. They have mandated our President, together with

the current chairperson of the Organisation for African

Unity, President Bouteflika of Algeria, to champion the

continent's cause for debt cancellation. Through these and

numerous other similar efforts, our leaders and people are

showing not only their impatience with the legacy of the

past, but their determination to overcome it.

The agenda of the African century will inform the

programmes of the Ministry during my term of office. In

pursuit of these, our policy and programme will rest on

four broad pillars: those of development, peace and

security, governance and transformation of related

institutions. Economic development is at the centre of our

strategy. At the centre of our strategy must be the
14 March 2000                                Page 287 of 346

integration of not only our economy, but also those of

other countries in the African continent, into the world

system. Such an integration must advance the interests of

our continent. For this reason, we play a leadership role

to ensure that the new international trade protocols of the

WTO enhance the development agenda of the south.

Establishing co-operation with the various emerging

economic blocs is one of the central features of South

African foreign policy. Hence the conclusion of the trade,

development and co-operation agreement with the EU. We also

played a leading role in 1999 in the negotiations with the

EU for a successor agreement to the Lomé Convention. We

will continue to make important contributions as a

respected member of the African-Caribbean and Pacific

group. Afro-Arab co-operation and relations between the

region and the Gulf Co-operation Council will receive

further attention. In this regard, we are a founder member

of the Indian Ocean Rim Association for regional co-

operation. The relations with the states of the Caribbean

community and common market Carricom will be improved. In

pursuit of this, a mission has been opened in Kingston,

14 March 2000                                Page 288 of 346

Most countries in our region have successful economic

reform programmes in place. The process of regional

integration has many opportunities for the citizens of our

respective countries. The ratification of the Southern

African Development Community Trade Protocol in January

2000 concerned our common commitment to establishing a free

trade area.

We are about to start negotiations for a trade agreement

with Mercosur. This will strengthen our links with South

America. We have just returned from Chile, where we were

part of a historic event, the inauguration of the socialist

President, Ricardo Lagos, the first socialist President

since the coup d'etat against the Allende government.

We also intend to use various fora to articulate positions

of Africa and the developing world in dialogue with the

industrialised world. These will, among others, include the

EU/Africa Summit of April 2000 in Cairo, the South

African/Nordic Summit in June, the G8 meeting in July, the

China-Afro Co-operation Forum to be held in Beijing in

October, the 13th NAM Ministerial Conference in Cartagena

and the Summit of Heads of State and Government in Havana,

both in April.
14 March 2000                                Page 289 of 346

Our embassies and high commissions abroad spend more than

60% of their time on trade and investment-related matters,

such as sustaining our market share, exploring and opening

new markets, facilitating joint ventures and negotiating

bilateral economic co-operation agreements. We have to

strengthen trade and investment relations with Africa,

Asia, the Middle East, Latin America and the Caribbean in

order to diversify. An increasing number of our top-20

trading partners now hail from these regions. In a few

days' time I will be visiting China in order to further

strengthen and expand our relations with that country, and

also to prepare for the first state visit by the Chinese

President to South Africa in April.

With regard to social development, an exclusive focus on

economic dimension of development will be extremely limited

and unwise. Culturally, we are in a global village.

Innovations in communication and information technology

make it possible to disseminate ideas, images and symbols

at the blink of an eye. Unfortunately, much of the

developing world, particularly Africa, does not have access

to and cannot share this wealth of information and

knowledge. In an age of increasing global secularism there

is, however, also a need to provide space for cultural
14 March 2000                                Page 290 of 346

identity and to accommodate those who feel threatened by

this phenomenon.

The impact of HIV/Aids echoes through every facet of our

societies, crippling workforces and leading to unmanageable

demands on our health care systems. The African renaissance

remains threatened, unless the people of our continent -

who should deliver this vision - are free from the scourge

of this terrible disease. South Africa is also committed to

the promotion of human rights internationally. In the light

of this, South Africa has accepted a request by the UN to

host the World Conference on Racism in the second half of

the year 2001. We are uniquely positioned to contribute to

the international community's quest to combat racism in all

its manifestations. The United Nations General Assembly

Special Session on Women 2000 and on social development

will enable us to place on the world agenda the concerns we

have about the continued marginalisation of women in our


In relation to peace and security, the regional conflicts

wreaking havoc across the continent cast a dark shadow over

the prospects of the success of the vision of the African

renaissance. We shall continue to be an honest and neutral
14 March 2000                                Page 291 of 346

broker in these conflicts. We believe that these wars cause

human misery and pain, and reverse whatever little gains we

have made in socioeconomic development.

The ratio of military to civilian casualties in these wars

is thought to have been 8:1 at the start of the century,

but now it stands at 1:8, the civilian casualties being the

largest. It is wrong to think that all conflicts should be

solved through the barrel of the gun. Political solutions

should be explored at all times. For this reason, we are

committed to participating in peace missions wherever our

contribution is required and a legitimate international

mandate exists. In the DRC there can be no alternative to a

peaceful resolution of that country's conflict.

We are happy to have played our small part in the

development of the Lusaka Peace Agreement which enjoys the

support of all parties involved in that conflict. This

framework also enjoys the support of the OAU and the UN. In

this context we welcome the deployment of the UN

Peacekeeping Force to implement the ceasefire agreement and

we support the former President of Botswana, Sir Ketumile

Masire, in his role as facilitator for the internal process

in that country. We are committed to stand by the people of
14 March 2000                                Page 292 of 346

the Congo as they make this difficult journey,   and we will

support and encourage them wherever we can. For this

reason, I will be visiting the DRC, Kinshasa, at the end of

this week.

During my visit to Burundi early this month, I was struck

by the desperation of those people for peace and for

reconstruction of their society. They count on our support

to encourage the world not to forget their plight and to

urge those involved in the violent conflict to give peace a

chance. I therefore wish to assure former President

Mandela, the facilitator of the Burundi peace process, of

our fullest support in this endeavour.

The 26-year conflict in Angola is of great concern as it

spreads and affects other countries in our region. We

support all the UN sanctions against Unita and shall

continue to work closely with the UN for the success of

these measures in order to secure a peaceful solution. We

are aware that some of our citizens have been involved in

efforts aimed at undermining the UN sanctions. We shall

take firm action against those involved. South Africa will

continue to advocate for a political solution to the

conflict in Angola, as we remain convinced that there can
14 March 2000                                Page 293 of 346

be no lasting military solution. We urge Unita once again

to abandon war and embrace peace. With regard to the

conflict between Eritrea and Ethiopia, progress has been

made towards the implementation of the OAU peace plan. We

support the ongoing IGAD process in Sudan and hope that

both parties, namely the Sudanese government and the SPLA,

will reach an early settlement.

Human security is a foreign policy idea and a political

imperative. It is a responsibility placed on our agenda by

the weight of public opinion. The public is often shocked

by live television broadcasts of the impact of natural

disasters. Our High Commissioner, Ms Jessie Duarte, acted

with a sense of urgency and alerted us in a manner which

enabled the Government through Foreign Affairs to act

swiftly, resulting in thousands of lives being saved. It is

in this context that we applaud the heroic efforts of our

Defence Force who rescued about 13 000 desperate

Mozambicans and formed part of the international effort to

distribute humanitarian aid. [Applause.]

The support extended to Mozambique from fellow African

countries with meagre resources is a true sign of African

solidarity. It is with a sense of pride that we saw Africa
14 March 2000                                  Page 294 of 346

take the lead in this time of crisis. We welcome the

humanitarian support that has since flowed from other

countries. We hope that the international community will

assist in the major task of the reconstruction and

development of Mozambique.

Mozambique, of course, was not the only country affected by

the disaster. Zimbabwe, Botswana and South Africa, as well

as Madagascar, were affected. The challenge that faces us

is to develop early warning capacity, and to generate

sufficient resources to prevent such human catastrophe and,

where we can, an ability to minimise the threat to the

lives of our citizens. We can only do this through co-

operation in Africa and support from others.

At this moment 29 South African experts are assisting to

put out a fire that has been raging for almost a month.

South Africa has keenly supported the initiative in respect

of the conference on security, stability, development and

co-operation in Africa. We serve on the steering committee

to further this process on the African continent. We

believe that this initiative represents a much-needed

process and in Africa constitutes a catalyst which will

enhance and speed up the OAU politically, as well as
14 March 2000                                Page 295 of 346

African economic integration processes. South Africa is

looking forward to hosting the OAU summit in the year 2002.

On governments, the past decades has seen a wave of

democratisation sweep the continent with three elected

leaders coming to power. Unconstitutional changes in

government were unequivocally condemned by member states at

the OAU summit of 1999 in Algiers. African governments are

generally embracing the values of good governance and

respect for human rights, and these are becoming entrenched

in their actions.

Our President has been asked to lead the process of

settling the unconstitutional cessation of the Anjuan

regime and military takeover of the government in the

Comores. Good progress has been made to put pressure on the

Anjuan regime to maintain the integrity of the Comores as a

unified sovereign state. The OAU also endorsed efforts of

the committee to return the Comores to constitutional order

and begin an end to the military regime.

As a country, we stand prepared to support these

initiatives, using the wealth of experience and expertise

that our people have in this regard, or provide the
14 March 2000                                Page 296 of 346

requisite logistical assistance to ensure that the

electoral system reaches all the eligible voters. We

provided such logistical support in the form of helicopters

for the Mozambican election.

South Africa is also actively participating in the

proceedings of the international criminal tribunal for

Rwanda. The judge president, Navir Pillay, is one of our

judges, and I am also proud that she is a woman. This

tribunal is part of the process aimed at prosecuting

persons responsible for the genocide and other serious

violations of international humanitarian law committed in

the territory of Rwanda in 1994.

In order for us to play our new role meaningfully and

effectively within our modest means, I will be tabling the

African renaissance and international co-operation Bill in

the second quarter of this session of Parliament. This law

will enable us to co-ordinate, plan and direct our efforts

in this regard in a better way. Apart from participating in

various international fora, South Africa will this year be

involved in initiatives aimed at improving the security of

Africa's citizens. These include negotiations on the

international convention against transnational organised
14 March 2000                                Page 297 of 346

crime and the 10th UN crime congress that will take place

in April 2000 in Vienna.

I now come to institutional transformation. The creation of

a better world is imperative. But we have to have support

of organisational and other institutional mechanisms.

Immense trust and confidence is placed in South Africa,

particularly by the developing world, resulting in our

election to leadership roles of various multilateral

organisations, including NAM and the Commonwealth.

Yesterday, Monday, 13 March, was Commonwealth Day. As we

reflect on the unique role that it has played in helping to

shape South Africa's peaceful transition to democracy, we

are also aware of the special responsibility placed on

South Africa whose President Thabo Mbeki is the first-ever

chair in office of the Commonwealth, and chairman of its

high-level group which will be examining the future role of

the Commonwealth.

We continue to advocate the reform and renewal of

multilateral institutions, particularly the United Nations,

the World Bank and the IMF. The UN Security Council remains

the paramount global instrument to safeguard peace and

security. Capacity must be built to enable it to address
14 March 2000                                  Page 298 of 346

new, nontraditional threats to security such as ethnic

conflict, mass refugee flows, illicit small arms

trafficking, gross human rights violations, and failures of

governance and the rule of law, and to address abject human


I have mentioned all the challenges that face us, but do we

have a department that can live up to these challenges?

Clearly the challenges that confront us in the pursuit of

these policy objectives require that the Department of

Foreign Affairs should itself undergo a thoroughgoing


In this regard, measures are in place to develop a

comprehensive departmental strategy plan for

transformation. This plan will span a three to five-year

period and it will be finalised before the end of this

year. The plan will cover such issues as programme and

policy orientation, fundamental organisational reform and

the repositioning of missions. The objective will be to

ensure that we have efficient and effective capacity to

deliver on our mandate. These processes are already under

way as we recognise the urgency of enhancing our

14 March 2000                                Page 299 of 346

Clearly the present scope of the challenges ahead of us

would require the utilisation of a range of resources

available to the state, including the support of other

departments and Ministries. We would also consult broadly

with the various organs of civil society to ensure their

participation in a manner that will not impinge on their

independence and autonomy.

Effective communication of our policies and programmes, and

indeed the agenda of the African renaissance, will form an

important part of our strategy. In this regard, a co-

ordinated approach that brings together the various

agencies in our international work, such as various

Government departments, ISA, Satour and other similar

organisations, will be important. The Cabinet decision to

establish a programme called ``Imaging and Branding South

Africa',' which will be implemented with the assistance of

the Government Communication and Information System, GCIS,

under the guidance of an international committee that will

be chaired by the Minister of Foreign Affairs, is a welcome


As I conclude, I want to place on record my appreciation

for the guidance from the President and the support from
14 March 2000                                  Page 300 of 346

the Deputy President. My appreciation also goes to the

Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr Aziz Pahad, for his

support and counsel, and to the DG, the DDGs and the entire

staff in the Department of Foreign Affairs, who have worked

so hard. I hope that the new year will witness an even

greater measure of co-ordination of our efforts to realise

common objectives. The newly formed Cabinet committee and

cluster committee system on international relations, peace

and security will lay a firm basis for this.

I would also like to thank all my colleagues, who have

given me their support and understanding, as Foreign

Affairs impinges on the work of all other departments. We

remain on course and ready to face the challenges of the

African century. [Applause.]

Mr E I EBRAHIM: Mr Chairperson, and hon members, I would

like to thank the hon Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma for

her very comprehensive and thought-provoking comments on

South Africa's role and priorities in foreign affairs for

the coming year. I would also like to extend a warm welcome

to our new Director-General of Foreign Affairs, Mr Sipho

Pityana, whose visionary leadership will help to guide the

department into the new millennium.
14 March 2000                                Page 301 of 346

The 21st century has been declared by our President as an

African century. In order to drive forward the notion of

the African renaissance, and operationalise the many

strategic objectives which have been identified as

necessary to ensure Africa's renewal, we will have to

commit substantial resources to the pursuit of this goal.

Similarly, to promote South Africa as a competitive player

and a valuable partner in the community of nations, we will

have to dedicate the requisite resources to marketing our

strengths overseas.

The concern shared by the members of the Foreign Affairs

committee is that the resources allocated to the Department

of Foreign Affairs for the current fiscal year are not

sufficient to meet our foreign affairs objectives. We are

mindful of the demands made by the various Government

departments on the limited resources available to the

state. The department has, however, tried to manage, with

increasing difficulty, a trend which has seen its budget

consistently reduced over the past three years, while the

foreign policy agenda has expanded, and more commitments

have been made in the international arena.

If we are to move beyond rhetoric and pronouncement, and
14 March 2000                                Page 302 of 346

actively engage in multilateral fora, strengthen trading

partnerships, attract direct foreign investments, address

conflicts on the continent and heighten human security, we

need a budget which reflects these priorities, and provides

the necessary capacity to fulfil these goals. What we are

witnessing is resource allocation which has hampered our

efforts, as a result of the Foreign Affairs budget being

cut by R90 million. The budget now stands at 50% of what it

was in 1993.

We lack capacity to seriously strategise on our involvement

in places like Asia and Latin America, which puts us at a

significant disadvantage on trade opportunities of a vast

potential. There are no available funds to open new

strategic missions abroad in places that are growing points

such as Vietnam, the Philippines, and Shanghai, and we

continue to close missions in places like Bulgaria and

Romania. A total of 221 foreign service posts remain

unfilled owing to financial constraints, and 14 head-of-

mission posts remain vacant even in Namibia, Tanzania,

Mumbai and Cuba.

In Africa, where we are seeking to expand economic co-

operation, we have merely 25 missions, out of a total of 53
14 March 2000                                Page 303 of 346

countries - a visible presence in only half of the

continent. The much-needed missions in Kigali, Lubumbashi

and Tripoli would enable us to more effectively pursue a

number of our economic and political objectives on the


An additional constraint for the department in managing its

current budget is that before the beginning of the

financial year, the budget has already been reduced owing

to the currency fluctuations of the past week. We would

like to recommend that the Department of Finance should

make, at least, part of the budget allocation to Foreign

Affairs in foreign currency.

Within the confines of the current budget, South Africa

will need to be strategic in addressing the urgent issues

of conflict resolution on the continent which threatens the

very potential for an African renaissance. We cannot be

peacemakers and reconcilers in every troubled spot

throughout the arc of crisis that runs from Angola in the

south, all the way to the Upper Nile Basin. But we do have

a special responsibility to share our experience and skill

in reconciliation and mediation where such efforts are

likely to bear the most fruit.
14 March 2000                                Page 304 of 346

Over the past years we have actively sought a peaceful

resolution to the conflict in the Democratic Republic of

Congo, and continue to pledge our support to the Lusaka

peace process. As parliamentarians, we must repeatedly

express our support for the work of Robert Fowler and the

UN-sanctioned regime which hopes to minimise the revenues

of Jonas Savimbi. We call on our Government to expose and

prosecute any South African guilty of sanction-busting.

Creative thinking on all our parts will be required to

encourage and negotiate a political settlement and viable

political process in Angola.

In addition to concerted efforts in dealing with

traditional security issues on the continent, it is

imperative that we increasingly look at human security

concerns. While traditional statecentric notions of

security are important, the security of individuals needs

to garner renewed attention. Peace cannot be seen as merely

the absence of war or the containment of conflict. Peace

must entail efficient state services where the basic needs

of the people are met, sustainable economic development

takes place and good governance is made a priority. Without

these fundamental concerns being addressed, the underlying

cause of state collapse and conflict will not be
14 March 2000                                Page 305 of 346

challenged. Part of heightening human security will

necessitate genuine ethnic reconciliation and grass-roots

peace-building across Africa to bring hostile communities

together and facilitate meaningful dialogue processes.

In addressing human security issues we may want to examine

the controversial concept of humanitarian intervention in

order to formalise our approach to situations that involve

gross violations of human rights, starvation or genocide.

Is the UN or the OAU prepared to intervene on humanitarian

grounds in the future when such tragedies unfold, or will

it adhere to the principle of sovereignty and territorial

integrity? Are we prepared to accept that there are

exceptional circumstances in which this principle can be

violated? A serious debate needs to take place on such


One of the greatest human security concerns which confronts

us today is the scourge of HIV/Aids. The urgency of the

crisis has made it necessary to view HIV/Aids as a foreign

policy issue if the African renaissance is to be more than

a dream. South Africa needs to forge partnerships with both

the North and South and civil society organisations to

mobilise the necessary resources, medication and awareness
14 March 2000                                Page 306 of 346

campaigns to reduce the devastating spread of the pandemic.

South Africa should play a leadership role within the

Nonaligned Movement to push for faster and more extensive

debt reduction so that resources in the developing world

can be freed up for programmes in education and health

care. If unity can be forged throughout the South as an

extension of Jubilee 2000, the North will find it harder to

resist southern demands.

Similarly, we must push for UN reforms, and reform of the

UN Security Council in particular. Our influence in such

world bodies does not reflect the extent of our

contribution. We currently contribute R46 million to the UN

and R40 million from South Africa went towards paying for

peace operations worldwide. Africa needs permanent

representation on the UN Security Council in order to place

African issues and conflicts more firmly on the

international agenda. Such reform will not likely take

place without southern consensus behind a common reform


Although our foreign policy is Africa driven, our

internationalism demands that we express solidarity with
14 March 2000                                  Page 307 of 346

and support genuine national liberation movements, and

support those struggling for human rights throughout the

world. In this respect we welcome the process of granting

full independence to the people of East Timor and condemn

the brutal violence perpetrated against the entire civilian


We express concern about the intransingency of the Israeli

government and fully support the legitimate aspirations of

the Palestinian people for their human dignity, for freedom

and self-determination. We must also express condemnation

of the abduction and the flawed trial of the Kurdish

leader, Abdullah Ocalan, and we support the call for his

release and for a peaceful resolution to the Kurdish issue

in Turkey.    We also note with concern the continued Turkish

military occupation of parts of Cyprus and urge the United

Nations to take the necessary steps to end this occupation.

In conclusion, South Africa does not lack the political

will to operationalise its varied foreign policy

objectives. But the department cannot operate on a

shoestring budget. If we are to pursue the visionary goal

espoused by our President, we will need to ensure that we

have the real capacity to do so. I have no doubt that South
14 March 2000                                Page 308 of 346

Africa, under the leadership of our President and under the

able leadership of the Minister, the Deputy Minister and

the officials of the department, will continue to play a

significant role among the nations of Africa and the world.


Mr C W EGLIN: Mr Chairperson, the hon Minister Zuma gave us

an impressive catalogue of the activities, past and future,

of her department. It really is very impressive. I look

forward to tomorrow to hear not Minister Zuma but the

magician Zuma explaining how the department is going to

achieve all this on a very limited budget that her

colleague has provided her with.

The only one point I want to touch on is that the hon the

Minister mentioned the issue of being an honest broker in

dispute situations rather than being a combatant. We, in

the DP, support that attitude 100%. We believe that very

often there are complex factors surrounding disputes and

wars. But, in the main, the wars and the disputes within

countries will never be resolved unless it is on the basis

of inclusive representative democratic government. If one

looks around Africa, that is the key problem in many of the

areas where the conflict is taking place.
14 March 2000                                Page 309 of 346

I, like many other people in this country, were taken by

surprise when the President announced that Dr Zuma was

going to be the Minister of Foreign Affairs. We had always

thought of her as stubbing out cigarettes rather than

stubbing out civil wars. But, we want to say that we

commend her for her enthusiasm and energy, and the way she

has tackled the responsibilities of her portfolio.

Reports from around Africa, in particular, indicate that

she has made an impact. Let me say to the Minister that it

is too early for us to come to final conclusions on the

extent of her success. We wish her well. We, the DP, will

support her wherever it is possible. But let me say that we

reserve the right to criticise her whenever we deem it


This is also the occasion to welcome the new director-

general, Mr Pityana. I think we have had two directors-

general in the course of the past year. While the

Minister's responsibility is in the field of policy and

diplomacy, the essential responsibility for the director-

general is in the field of management. I want to stress the

importance of effective management in the field of foreign

affairs at this stage of South Africa's international
14 March 2000                                Page 310 of 346


We believe that proper management of a small department

with a very limited budget, operating in the international

field, is of critical importance. There are four reasons

for this - expanded responsibilities; and yet confronted

with the reduced budget. We believe that the budget

reduction of R19 million will be much greater when taken in

real money terms and is short-sighted. We do not believe

that it will be possible for the Department of Foreign

Affairs to play the full and appropriate part in promoting

South Africa's interest in the international field. I know

they are going to try their best, but we believe that there

is not enough money for us to cover the international

field, and South Africa's increased international status,

and South Africa's increased international opportunities.

So we shall do what we can to persuade the hon the Minister

of Finance to increase the department's budget to a much

more realistic figure.

The second reason for good management is to meet the

challenge and opportunities presented by the developments

of modern information technology. The world of

communication - and a big part of that is foreign affairs -
14 March 2000                                  Page 311 of 346

is changing dramatically before our eyes. We want to see

that, through good management, we keep abreast with the

newest techniques in the field of information technology.

The third reason for good management is the changing nature

of international relationships. What may have been good

management five years ago is probably going to be poor

management this year and bad management in a year's time,

as national boundaries become less important and a regional

bloc, multinational agencies, international politics and

global economics become more important. We see the world as

a kaleidoscope rather than as a set pattern.

Finally, giving increased impetus to South Africa's effort

in the fields of international trade, finance and

technology would not only require greater effort, but, I

believe and we believe, would also require much greater co-

operation and shared responsibility among the Department of

Foreign Affairs, the Department of Trade and Industry and

the private sector. They are three essential members of a

team if we are going to expand our trade. I would like to

say to Mr Pityana that he has a tough mission ahead of him

and I wish him good luck.
14 March 2000                                Page 312 of 346

I can only deal with one other matter in the short time

available to me, and that is our dealings with the Southern

African region. The region, we believe, is of critical

importance to South Africa and the South African people.

What is more, the Southern African region is a part of the

world where, because of South Africa's location and because

of its relative strength and its human and material

resources, South Africa can make a real difference. It can

make a very real difference, not only to the lives of South

Africans, but to the lives of millions of fellow Africans

living here within the southern region. We in the DP

believe that we have to assist in bringing peace, stability

and development to this region.

And so the countries of this region have formed SADC, which

is designed to co-ordinate and facilitate agreements,

protocols, and co-operation in obtaining these objectives.

We believe that SADC is a critically important instrument

in the whole question not just of the African renaissance,

but of the security, the peace and the development of our

southern region. It should be supported and it should be


SADC, in its current form, is a relatively new institution,
14 March 2000                                Page 313 of 346

and in its formative years it has not been able to meet all

the challenges which have confronted it. It has made good

progress in a number of fields, such as the technical

fields of power generation and communication. It has

brought countries closer and closer together. The trade

protocol, which in many ways stands at the centre of our

regional co-operation, while not yet ratified, is well on

the way to becoming a regional agreement.

However, it has had its shortcomings. It has not been able

to deal with the issue of conflict resolution. It might

have been said that this is because the conflicts in the

countries, particularly Angola and the DRC, were

intractable. The fact is that SADC itself did not have the

instrument within it to cope with this conflict situation.

I refer, in particular, to the fact that over the past

three years SADC's Organ for Politics, Defence and

Security, which should have been the body for creating a

mutual and a common attitude towards the conflict, in

essence, did not exist because of the disputes both over

the question of the chairmanship and over the question of

where its authority lay. We believe that had they had that

organ, one might not have had SADC torn apart as to how one

should handle the conflict situation in the DRC. We are
14 March 2000                                Page 314 of 346

pleased that at the meeting in Swaziland this matter

appeared to have been resolved.

Secondly, there is no doubt that as SADC becomes a more

important instrument, consideration has to be given to the

restructuring and the revamping of the executive and the

way in which various portfolios are handed out. Finally,

SADC, particularly, has to move towards having free trading

areas. We have economies which are becoming interlocked and

more and more interdependent. There must be clear and

binding commitment amongst the countries of SADC as to what

kind of governance and what kind of economy is going to

prevail in that region. The countries and the governments

cannot and should not be clones of one another. Rather

there should be an unambiguous commitment to four features:

first, to the peaceful resolution of conflict and, second,

to democracy and respect for human rights and upholding the

rule of law. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Miss M N MAGAZI: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members,

comrades and friends, the world we are living in is

changing very fast. The change is necessary, though the

very nature of human beings, especially those who are

privileged, is not to want to give away the old and
14 March 2000                                Page 315 of 346

familiar, while those who are not privileged want to bring

something new and in most cases, progressive. One author

once described this contradiction as nothing but a struggle

between what is old and what is dying, but is refusing to

die, and what is new and struggling to be born.

The focus of my speech will be on the restructuring or

reform of the United Nations Security Council, the World

Bank and the International Monetary Fund. The very nature

of the United Nations Organisation was modelled along the

lines of the victorious forces after the Second World War.

Also important was that the world was divided into two -

the socialist block dominated by the former Soviet Union

and the capitalist world dominated by USA. Many

developments have taken place since the world of 1945, as

it was envisaged by the United Nations Organisation.

There were 54 countries who signed the United Nations

Charter in 1945, and today the organisation consists of 185

member states. We are no longer living in a bipolar world.

The socialist bloc, which was once dominated by the former

Soviet Union, is no longer there. Technology and

communication have made our world much smaller than it was

before. We all have a common destiny as humanity. Our
14 March 2000                                Page 316 of 346

future as humanity is in our hands. No part of the world

has been left untouched by the changes that have taken


The UNO itself has not been left out in the process of

change. Today one is able to know what is happening

thousands of kilometres away from one's country, just by

the push of a button. In all these changes that I have

stated above, the Security Council of the UN has not

changed. Though there is general agreement among the

permanent members of the Security Council that change is

necessary and that they have to change, the question they

still entertain is to what extent they should change.

They are prepared to accommodate new members in the

Security Council if those members do not have veto powers.

This is not acceptable to the potential members and to

those who campaign for this change to happen. New members

would not want to have a second class membership of the

Security Council.

Our position as a country is the position of the OAU which

says that every member, old or new, must be accorded the

same status and privileges, and that Africa must be
14 March 2000                                Page 317 of 346

accorded two seats. These seats must be rotational and

mandated seats. Those countries will have the backing, and

they will be expressing the aspirations, of the continent

as a whole through the OAU.

We also concur with the view that regions like Latin

America and Asia must have representation in the Security

Council. Owing to the reluctance of the current permanent

members of the council, the changes will take a long time

to come, but we are determined to have those changes. We

know for a fact that they will come.

Let me turn my attention to the financial institutions

which play a significant role in many lives - the World

Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Those two

institutions have not lived up to our expectations and, to

a large extent, they have caused havoc in the national

economies of many countries of the South. Let us first

examine the main objectives of these institutions that

justify their existence. Among the objectives of these

institutions one will find the following: Firstly, to

combat poverty in all its manifestations; secondly, to

protect the environment; and thirdly, economic

reconstruction and recovery. In many instances these
14 March 2000                                Page 318 of 346

objectives have been neglected. The conditions that are

attached to loans granted to countries have literally

killed the economies of these countries. Among these

conditions is the structural adjustment programme. This

programme has literally caused havoc with the countries of

the south.

Countries have surrendered their sovereignty to these

institutions. These institutions have created in many cases

parallel structures to those of the governments. These

programmes have denied millions of children their right to

basic education, thus keeping the bulk of the population of

the countries in ignorance. How are we supposed to achieve

development if we do not build human resources? Many people

have been denied access to health care, and clinics have

been closed down. These loans have caused civil strife. In

one sentence, this has been the globalisation of poverty.

Despite massive evidence of the negative impact of this

programme available to these institutions, no policy shift

is in sight. Perhaps they need to be reminded that people

are the greatest asset of any country. These financial

institutions must be persuaded that when they provide

loans, they must do so with a human heart. Their loans must
14 March 2000                                Page 319 of 346

ensure democracy, a human rights culture and human

progress. Anything short of that will not guarantee peace

in this world of ours. [Applause.]

Rev K M ZONDI: Chairperson, I must begin by thanking the

President, His Excellency Mr T M Mbeki, for the confidence

he has shown in the women of our country by appointing the

hon Dr Zuma as Minister in this important portfolio of

Foreign Affairs. [Applause.] The strides with which the hon

the Minister set out to tackle one of the most difficult

and complicated problems of conflict on the African

continent shortly after her appointment, namely the problem

of the Democratic Republic of Congo, proves that the hon

the Minister is well endowed with talent and ability to

take over the immense task that was ably executed before

her by that quiet diplomat who has since passed on from us,

the late Mr Alfred Nzo, whose soul should rest in peace.

The R1,3 billion allocated to the Department of Foreign

Affairs for the 2000-2001 financial year is far from

enough, if one takes into account the daunting challenges

that face us as a country, as we continue with the

important programme of being reintegrated into the

international community after decades of isolation which
14 March 2000                                Page 320 of 346

was brought about by our apartheid past. Like any self-

respecting country, we must continue to conduct our affairs

in a manner that will make us respectable and principled

members of the international community. We must, from time

to time, take positions in multilateral organisations that

will help promote our image as that of a good citizen of

the world.

While it is important for us as a country to forge good

relations with the rest of the world community, it is,

however, a matter of exceeding importance that our foreign

policy becomes Afrocentric in nature. It must be biased

towards Africa and her special circumstances. We must as a

country utilise the advantage of our connections with

influential countries to champion the cause of Africa. We

cannot allow Africa to be shoved around as an unimportant

part of the world.

The Department of Foreign Affairs has a responsibility also

to help make this 21st century the African century. In

fact, I was delighted when the hon the Minister indicated

that intention as a central part of the policy. In order to

help realise this, I would suggest that our foreign policy

with regards to Africa should be dominated by the following
14 March 2000                                Page 321 of 346

issues, among others: Firstly, it should be based on the

democratisation of African governments, that is, all

governments should be based on the will of the governed.

South Africa must play a pivotal role to help encourage

this positive development on the continent. Secondly, we

should strive for the end of all wars and conflicts leading

to the return of stability and peace. Thirdly, we should

step up programmes that will help entrench a culture of

respect for human rights. Fourthly, we should stimulate

economic development in order to help reduce the

unacceptably high levels of gruelling poverty on the


Our policy also needs to continue to focus on our immediate

neighbourhood, Southern Africa. While we have definite

responsibilities towards our continent, we should have even

more responsibilities in Southern Africa. In Southern

Africa we have two situations which pose a very serious

challenge to us as a country. These are the conflicts in

Angola and the DRC. While it is commendable that we have

supported resolutions taken by multilateral organisations

such as the UN, the OAU and SADC on the conflict in Angola,

such as taking stern measures against those who flout

sanctions imposed on organisations such as Unita, we should
14 March 2000                                Page 322 of 346

nevertheless not lose sight of what should be our cardinal

policy objective, that of ensuring that the decades-long

war comes to an end.

Perhaps we need to adopt a two-pronged approach, which

should make it possible that while we act in concert with

the international community we also are able to take

initiatives which will ensure that we leave no stone

unturned in search for a solution. We need to take

initiatives that are designed to ensure that both President

Dos Santos and Dr Savimbi find a way to make peace possible

in Angola, for the sake of millions of ordinary Angolans

who, on a daily basis, bear the brunt of the decades-long


One must also commend the stirling initiatives of the hon

the Minister in helping to bring together most parties to

the conflict in the DRC. These initiatives led to the

signing of the cease-fire agreement by most of the

important role-players in that conflict. However, we do

feel that more work still has to be done by our Minister,

and perhaps even by our President, to persuade President

Kabila to play a role that would be helpful to the

situation. The political parties in the DRC must be
14 March 2000                                Page 323 of 346

assisted to work towards a programme that will eventually

lead to the establishment of a fully fledged democracy in

the DRC.

Lastly, I would also like to add to the words commending

our security forces for doing a stirling and commendable

job in helping out in the situation of disaster in

Mozambique. As a country it did us very proud.

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Mr Chairman, I agree with the previous

speaker that the 21st century should belong to Africa, but

I will come back to that point.

It is only a privilege to serve on a committee that is

chaired by the hon Ebrahim Ebrahim. It is only a pleasure

to interact with the able officials of the Department of

Foreign Affairs. It is only a pleasure to work with Deputy

Minister Aziz Pahad. And if there is truth in the saying

``absence makes the heart grow fonder'' it will only become

a pleasure to work with the hon the Minister of Foreign

Affairs as well. [Laughter.]

In the limited time at my disposal I would like to deal

basically with only one issue: The protection of minority
14 March 2000                                Page 324 of 346

rights as a mechanism for conflict prevention on the

continent of Africa. I will also raise a question relating

to the so-called ``China no motion'' issue that will arise

later this month in Geneva.

If the twenty-first century is to belong to Africa, as

envisaged by President Mbeki, if the concept of the African

renaissance is to become a reality, Africa will have to get

its act in order. The senseless civil wars which have been

plaguing Africa for decades, destroying its natural

resources, emptying its state coffers, blocking foreign

investment and hampering economic development, will have to

be stopped once and for all. If this does not happen, the

21st century will not belong to Africa and an African

renaissance will remain a pipe dream.

How could these conflicts be brought to an end? Quite

simply, really, by implementing the contents of this

document, the UN Declaration on the Rights of Persons

Belonging to National or Ethnic, Religious or Linguistic

Minorities. The root cause of virtually every prevailing

conflict on the continent is the violation of the rights of

persons belonging to ethnic, religious and linguistic

minorities by majority governments. This is the case in the
14 March 2000                                 Page 325 of 346

Sudan, in Nigeria, in the Great Lakes area - especially

Burundi, from where the Minister has just returned - in the

Democratic Republic of Congo, where the Minister is off to

at the end of the week, in the Caprivi, and, to a certain

extent, in Angola.

Once people belonging to minorities have the right to enjoy

their own culture, to practise their own religion, to use

their own language, to participate effectively in decisions

at national and regional level concerning the minority to

which they belong, as specifically required by article 2 of

the declaration, the conflicts will wither away until they

finally stop.

Die tyd het aangebreek dat die Suider-Afrikaanse

Ontwikkelingsgemeenskap die toepassing van hierdie VN-

deklarasie oor die regte van persone wat aan nasionale of

etniese,   religieuse of taalminderhede behoort, as 'n saak

van dringende belang op hulle agenda plaas. Die tyd het ook

aangebreek dat die Organisasie vir Eenheid in Afrika

dieselfde doen. Ek versoek die Minister om die bespreking

van hierdie deklarasie in genoemde forums, die SAOG en die

OEA, so gou moontlik te fasiliteer. Die toepassing van die

bepalings van die VN-deklarasie oor die regte van persone
14 March 2000                                Page 326 of 346

wat aan minderhede behoort, is 'n baie doeltreffender en

goedkoper manier om vrede te bewerkstellig as wat enige

militêre ingryping ooit kan droom om te wees. (Translation

of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The time has come for the Southern African Development

Community to place on their agenda, as a matter of urgency,

the implementation of this UN Declaration on the Rights of

Persons Belonging to National or Ethnic, Religious or

Linguistic Minorities. The time has also come for the

Organisation for African Unity to do the same. I request

that the Minister facilitate as quickly as possible the

discussion of this declaration in the said forums, SADC and

the OAU as soon as possible. The implementation of the

provisions of the UN declaration on the rights of persons

belonging to minorities, is a far more effective and

inexpensive way to achieve peace than any military

intervention could ever dream to be.]

In conclusion, can the hon the Minister tell the House

whether South Africa will support the motion condemning

human rights violations in the People's Republic of China

that will possibly be considered by the UN Human Rights

Commission later this month in Geneva? The New NP believes
14 March 2000                                Page 327 of 346

that such a motion should be tabled and that the People's

Republic of China should be condemned for human rights

violations in Tibet, in Xinjiang province, and for

suppressing freedom of worship and jailing political


Die Nuwe NP steun die begrotingspos, maar wys daarop dat as

die begroting elke jaar in reële terme krimp, bo en behalwe

onvermydelike dalings as gevolg van die wisselkoers, die

departement naderhand al sy buitelandse missies sal moet

sluit. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The New NP supports the Vote, but wishes to point out that

if the budget shrinks in real terms every year, over and

above the inevitable downswings as a result of the exchange

rate, the department will eventually have to close down all

its foreign missions.]

The New NP - and this is my last point - endorses the idea

of an African parliament. This world, at least, guarantee

opposition parties a say in African affairs, something

which is nonexistent at the moment.

Mr M RAMGOBIN: Mr Chairperson, hon Deputy President, Madam
14 March 2000                                Page 328 of 346

Minister, ladies and gentlemen, since 1994 our country's

foreign relations have moved from a defensive position to a

creative interventionist one, and our primary focus is the

promotion of the African renaissance at domestic, regional

and international levels.

On the basis of an assessment of the expenditure trends in

the department, in relation to its strategic objectives, I

believe that the Budget allocation is far from adequate.

For the regeneration of Africa, we are committed to playing

a critical role in several fields. As a background, after

World War 2, we in Africa fought for and got our political

emancipation. This emancipation coincided with the

reconstruction of war-devastated Europe under the Marshall

Plan. Rather ironically, this was deficit spending, but the

culmination of which, within 50 years, became the European

Union. This union ensures that there will be no wars ever

again in Europe, but a very large part of Africa remains a

theatre of war.

All former colonising powers of Africa are members of the

European Union. In other words, Europe has demonstrated

that there should be no rigid boundaries separating the

interconnected dimensions of security, be they of a
14 March 2000                                Page 329 of 346

political, economic or environmental nature. Even a common

currency was found to be essential for its unity. Today the

European Union is so well organised that farmers in the

member states are paid not to grow food, not to breed sheep

and not to breed cattle, whilst we in Africa, once a

continent of colonies in broad terms, remain hungry.

The Marshall Plan was excellent for Europe, but what about

Africa? Did not the war occur in Africa? Were not the human

and material resources of Africa used to fight the war? In

1947 the Truman administration granted a $17 billion aid

programme for Europe, but I say not one dollar for Africa.

Today for us in Africa, the renaissance is a compelling

call. For far too long we have been subjected to the

political and economic caprices of the western world. And

for our regeneration to become a reality, we need to engage

in several projects and programmes. We have to enhance our

integration by economic investment and institutional

arrangements. There has to be an intensification of more

bilateral, subregional, regional and continental co-

operation. The sharing of developmental skills and

experiences and the transfer of technology must be

important components for our growth and accelerated
14 March 2000                                Page 330 of 346

development. Our technikons and universities must play a

lead in this, and I believe that the DFA must lead the co-


Whether we receive support from the UNDP, UNCTAD, or the

Commonwealth, we need to build our own food production

capacity. We need modalities and mechanisms for this and,

therefore, the question of developmental planning. This

must lead us to the role of the interventionist state

versus the free-market system or liberalisation as

antecedent to globalisation. This should be part of the

agenda of the OAU as an urgent matter. The DFA again must

lead us and co-ordinate with others.

The technological needs of Africa are urgent and immense.

Both the EU and the United States cannot shirk their

responsibilities. Both benefited from colonialism and the

slave trade. We do not want to accept hand-outs, but the

exercise of a moral responsibility towards Africa is


We need to persuade civil society in the West to pressure

Western governments to get involved in the reconstruction

and the regeneration of Africa. The EU and the United
14 March 2000                                Page 331 of 346

States must lead the process again, and I believe that the

DFA has to play a lead in this. There has to be co-

ordination in our communication systems and transport. Our

states have to intervene in the questions of education,

land reform and health, with an emphasis on Aids.

Centres for consultation and planning are essential. We can

set an example. The management and control of the

environment is an absolute need. Water conservation and

soil conservation and additions to them are essential.

Toxic waste dumping and land mines in Africa are serious

impediments and obstacles to our regeneration.

I come to the question of wars and civil strife. The

question to be asked is: Whose wars are these? Who benefits

from these wars? Internecine wars, genocide and banditry

characterise parts of the African continent. Who are the

beneficiaries of these? All these are possible because of

the lack, in my view, of one major component - the lack of

democratic practice and the lack of human-rights culture;

because people can intervene to benefit from the lack of a

democratic practice and the lack of a human rights culture.

We have enough examples to go by - the Tshombes, Savimbis

and Sani Abachas. What I am saying is that we need to
14 March 2000                                  Page 332 of 346

initiate a revolutionary ethic among the states of the

continent, and this must be our new cry. We need to build

this ethic, an ethic worthy of Africa, and the role of the

DFA, again, is paramount in this.

I now want to come to the question of economics and

beneficiation. I want to ask a question here and to those

outside. Why is the magnitude of industrialisation that

must lead to cohesion, cultural homogeneity,

interdependence and co-existence not present in Africa? If

we were to go by the example of Ghana, it is significant

that the cocoa cartels in Europe were instrumental in

bringing down Kwama Nkrumah. The gold in South Africa is

controlled by a cartel based here and in the Western world.

Copper in Zambia is managed by a cartel which is not

indigenous to Zambia. Oil in Nigeria and Angola are not

processed for the benefit of the African continent.

Diamonds in South Africa, the DRC and Angola are, in fact,

part of our problem today in the region.

One major ancient field in which we are involved is

quinine. Is there any factory in Africa that has

transformed quinine into a drug to fight malaria? And yet

that quinine was and still is available in Africa. Where is
14 March 2000                                 Page 333 of 346

this processed? Have we built industries around quinine?

Are there any collective enterprises between the African

continent and the recipients or beneficiaries of these?

Instead the cartels of the West have, in fact, controlled

the prices and the markets. We want to ask the overlords of

Africa some questions. [Time expired.]

Debate suspended.

The House adjourned at 18:04.



                    FRIDAY, 10 MARCH 2000


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1.    The Speaker and the Chairperson:

     (1) The following Bill was introduced in the National

         Assembly on 10 March 2000 and referred to the Joint
14 March 2000                                  Page 334 of 346

          Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms

          of Joint Rule 160:

          (i) National House of Traditional Leaders Amendment

              Bill [B 15 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec

              76(1)) - (Portfolio Committee on Provincial and

              Local Government - National Assembly)

              [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice

              of its introduction published in Government

              Gazette No 20973 of 10 March 2000.]


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:


1.   The Minister of Home Affairs:

     Report and Financial Statements of the Film and

     Publication Board for 1998-99.

2.   The Minister of Minerals and Energy:
14 March 2000                                  Page 335 of 346

     Report and Financial Statements of the Nuclear Safety

     Council for 1998-99.

3.   The Minister of Health:

     (1) Report of the Medical Bureau for Occupational

         Diseases for 1998-99.

     (2) Government Notice No 344 published in the

         Government Gazette No 20848 dated 4 February 2000,

         Mental Health Care Bill published for comment.

     (3) Government Notice No 93 published in the Government

         Gazette No 20837 dated 4 February 2000,

         Chiropractors, Homeopaths and Allied Health Service

         Professions Amendment Bill published to inform the

         public that the Minister of Health intends to table

         the Bill in Parliament during 2000.

     (4) Government Notice No 105 published in the

         Government Gazette No 20855 dated 11 February 2000,

         Correction Notice to Government Notice No 10 of 7

         January 2000 made in terms of the Choice of

         Termination of Pregnancy Act, 1996 (Act No 92 of
14 March 2000                                 Page 336 of 346


     (5) Government Notice No R.137 published in the

         Government Gazette No 20880 dated 18 February 2000,

         Regulations regarding performance of community

         service by dentists made in terms of the Medical,

         Dental and Supplementary Health Service Professions

         Act, 1974 (Act No 56 of 1974).

                    MONDAY, 13 MARCH 2000


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1.   The Speaker and the Chairperson:

     (1) The Minister of Housing on 9 March 2000 submitted a

         draft of the Home Loan and Mortgage Disclosure

         Bill, 2000, and the memorandum explaining the

         objects of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker

         and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The

         draft has been referred by the Speaker and the

         Chairperson to the Portfolio Committee on Housing
14 March 2000                                Page 337 of 346

       and the Select Committee on Public Services,

       respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

   (2) The following papers have been tabled and are

       referred to the relevant committees as mentioned


       (i) The following papers are referred to the

           Portfolio Committee on Health and the Select

           Committee on Social Services:

           (a) Report of the Medical Bureau for

                Occupational Diseases for 1998-99.

           (b) Government Notice No 344 published in the

                Government Gazette No 20848 dated 4

                February 2000, Mental Health Care Bill

                published for comment.

           (c) Government Notice No 93 published in the

                Government Gazette No 20837 dated 4

                February 2000, Chiropractors, Homeopaths

                and Allied Health Service Professions

                Amendment Bill published to inform the
14 March 2000                                  Page 338 of 346

                  public that the Minister of Health intends

                  to table the Bill in Parliament during


              (d) Government Notice No R.137 published in the

                  Government Gazette No 20880 dated 18

                  February 2000, Regulations regarding

                  performance of community service by

                  dentists made in terms of the Medical,

                  Dental and Supplementary Service Health

                  Professions Act, 1974 (Act No 56 of 1974).

       (ii)       The following paper is referred to the

                  Portfolio Committee on Health, the Select

                  Committee on Social Services and the Joint

                  Monitoring Committee on Improvement of

                  Quality of Life and Status of Women:

              Government Notice No 105 published in the

              Government Gazette No 20855 dated 11 February

              2000, Correction notice to Government Notice No

              10 of 7 January 2000 made in terms of the

              Choice of termination of Pregnancy Act, 1996

              (Act No 92 of 1996).
14 March 2000                                    Page 339 of 346

         (iii)      The following paper is referred to the

                    Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy

                    and the Select Committee on Economic


               Report and Financial Statements of the Nuclear

               Safety Council for 1998-99.

National Assembly:

1.   The Speaker:

     (1) The following private member's legislative proposal

         was submitted to the Speaker on 1 March 2000, in

         accordance with Rule 234:

         (i)     Fund for the Victims of Crime Bill (Mr D H M


         The legislative proposal has been referred to the

         Standing Committee on Private Members' Legislative

         Proposals and Special Petitions by the Speaker, in

         accordance with Rule 235.
14 March 2000                                   Page 340 of 346


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:


1.   The Speaker and the Chairperson:

     The Report of the Department of Education for 1998-99

     [RP 62-2000].


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1.   The Chairperson and the Deputy Speaker, as co-

     chairpersons of the Joint Rules Committee, present the

     First Report of the Joint Rules Committee, dated 10

     March 2000, as follows:

     The Joint Rules Committee, having considered proposals

     for the amendment of the Joint Rules, recommends the

     following amendments to the Joint Rules:
14 March 2000                                    Page 341 of 346

   Joint Rule 71:

   To amend Joint Rule 71 (dealing with the Joint

   Subcommittee on Support for Members) by the addition of

   the underlined words and the deletion of the words in

   bold brackets:


   71.       The [Deputy Speaker and the permanent Deputy

             Chairperson of the Council] chairperson of the

             Assembly Subcommittee and the chairperson of

             the Council Subcommittee are the co-

             chairpersons of the Joint Subcommittee.

G N M PANDOR                        B MBETE

Co-chairperson                      Co-chairperson

Joint Rules Committee               Joint Rules Committee

Parliament                          Parliament

10 March 2000

Report to be considered.

National Assembly:
14 March 2000                                  Page 342 of 346

1.   Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry

     on the Competition Amendment Bill [B 10 - 2000]

     (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 10 March 2000:

         The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry,

         having considered the subject of the Competition

         Amendment Bill [B 10 - 2000] (National Assembly -

         sec 75), referred to it and classified by the JTM

         as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with

         amendments [B 10A - 2000].

2.   Report of the Portfolio Committee on Communications on

     Auditor-General's Satra Report, dated 13 March 2000:

         The Portfolio Committee on Communications, having

         considered the Special Report of the Auditor-

         General on an investigation at the South African

         Telecommunications Regulatory Authority [RP 47-

         2000], referred to it, reports -

         1.   that it has noted the contents of the Auditor-

              General's report;

         2.   that it has noted that other matters raised in
14 March 2000                                  Page 343 of 346

              the Committee's Report, dated 9 November 1999,

              may be subjected to further investigation by

              the Auditor-General during the normal course of

              the regularity audit; and

         3.   that, on the basis of the Auditor-General's

              report, it cannot take the matter any further,

              and consequently regards the matter as closed.

                     TUESDAY, 14 MARCH 2000


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1.   The Speaker and the Chairperson:

     The following paper was tabled on 10 March 2000 and is

     now referred to the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs

     and the Select Committee on Social Services:

     Report and Financial Statements of the Film and

     Publication Board for 1998-99.
14 March 2000                                 Page 344 of 346


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1.   The Minister of Education:

     (1) Government Notice No 1398 published in Government

         Gazette No 20650 dated 19 November 1999,

         Notification that the President has assented to the

         Education Laws Amendment Act, 1999 (Act No 48 of


     (2) Government Notice No 1399 published in Government

         Gazette No 20651 dated 19 November 1999,

         Notification that the President has assented to the

         Higher Education Amendment Act, 1999 (Act No 55 of


     (3) Government Notice No 1400 published in Government

         Gazette No 20652 dated 19 November 1999,

         Notification that the President has assented to the

         National Student Financial Aid Scheme Act, 1999

         (Act No 56 of 1999).
14 March 2000                               Page 345 of 346

   (4) Government Notice No 1422 published in Government

       Gazette No 20666 dated 25 November 1999,

       Appointment of persons to serve as members of the

       South African Qualifications Authority made in

       terms of the South African Qualifications Authority

       Act, 1995 (Act No 58 of 1995).

   (5) Government Notice No 1423 published in Government

       Gazette No 20669 dated 10 December 1999, Transfer

       of funds and other moveable assets of the State to

       the public schools made in terms of the South

       African Schools Act, 1996 (Act No 84 of 1996).

   (6) Government Notice No 1473 published in Government

       Gazette No 20692 dated 10 December 1999, National

       policy regarding instructional time for school

       instructional offerings made in terms of the

       National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of


   (7) Government Notice No 82 published in Government

       Gazette No 20844 dated 4 February 1999, Norms and

       standards for educators made in terms of the

       National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of
14 March 2000   Page 346 of 346