Document Sample
					                                                                          NONDESTRUCTIVE TESTING
                                                                                       JUNE 2010

                                   UNCONFIRMED MINUTES
                                      JUNE 21-24, 2010
                            GRAND COPTHORNE WATERFRONT HOTEL

These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent
meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the
Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.

MONDAY, JUNE 21, 2010 to THURSDAY, JUNE 24, 2010


1.1    Call to Order / Quorum Check

       The Nondestructive Testing (NDT) Task Group was called to order at 9:00 a.m., 21-Jun-10.

       It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of
       the meeting.

       A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:

       Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)

            NAME                               COMPANY NAME

            Ganasan           Annamalai        GE Aviation
        *   Stephen           Bauer            Northrop Grumman
        *   Alain             Bouchet          SAFRAN Group
        *   Juergen           Burchards        MTU Aero Engines
            FangMei           Chu              Honeywell Aerospace
        *   Richard           Costantino       Goodrich Corporation
        *   Chris             Dootson          BAE Systems
        *   Greg              Hall             Cessna Aircraft Company
        *   Robert            Hogan            Honeywell Aerospace             Acting Secretary
        *   Edward            Hohman           Bell Helicopter Textron Inc.
        *   Phil              Keown            GE Aviation                     Chairperson
        *   Serge             Labbé            Heroux-Devtek, Inc.
            Choon Weng        Leong            GE Aviation
        *   Ron               Levi             Lockheed Martin
        *   Donald            MacLean          Raytheon Company
            Zvis              Nin              Goodrich Corporation
            Earl              Pruett           Lockheed Martin
        *   Robert            Rainone          Goodrich Corporation
        *   Carl              Roche            Textron Systems
        *   Michael           Shiplett         Vought Aircraft
        *   Andy              Statham          Rolls-Royce plc                 Vice Chairperson
        *   Scott             Sullivan         Honeywell Aerospace
        *   David             Vaughn           Spirit AeroSystems
        *   Tony              Warren           Airbus
            ChiChong          Wong             Rolls-Royce

       Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)

            NAME                               COMPANY NAME

            Muhammad          Adharuddin       CTRM Aero Composites
                                                                              NONDESTRUCTIVE TESTING
                                                                                           JUNE 2010

            Edison               Alexander        Singapore Aerospace Manufacturing Pte. Ltd.
            Andrew Glen          Ang              Setsco Services Pte. Ltd.
            Rovic                Arceno Jr.       Messier Services Asia Pte. Ltd.
            Claude               Chambon          Aubert et Duval
            Robert               Custer           AAA Plating & Inspection, Inc.
            Fabienne             DuFour           Sherwin Babb Co.
            Dave                 Gray             Mitchell Labs
            Fook-Wing            Raymond Ho       Taikoo (Xiamen) Aircraft Eng. Co. Ltd
            Yue                  Lei              Taikoo (Xiamen) Aircraft Eng. Co. Ltd
            Hendrich             Lim              SAESL
            Zhang                Tamson           NANDTB-CN
            Jason                Wang             NANDTB-CN
            Wilfried             Weber            PFW Aerospace AG
            Gary                 White            Orbit Industry

       PRI Staff Present

               Mark              Aubele
               Phil              Ford

1.3    Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes / RAIL Review – OPEN

       Motion made by Andy Statham and seconded by David Vaughn to approve previous meeting
       minutes. Motion passed

       The minutes from February 2010 were approved as written.

       The Code of Ethics and Conflict of Interests statements were reviewed.


       Auditor Observations

                Thirteen audits were witnessed from February 2010 to June 2010, with 10 auditors being

                         Nine auditors were deemed to conduct themselves in a manner the NDT Task
                          Group expects.

                         One failed to meet expectations and requires corrective action to be taken.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to take corrective action with the Auditor based on the observer‟s comments.
DUE DATE: 15-Oct-10

                Sixteen of 44 auditors have been reviewed to date, with a total of 26 audits being
                 witnessed. Others to be specifically selected so that more auditors will be observed.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to specify Auditors that have not been reviewed. DUE DATE: 15-Oct-10

       Two scope extension audits have been conducted.

       Four Auditor Advisories have been issued by NDT since February 2010. These pertain to:

       - Compliance documentation
       - Trainee eye exams & training outlines
       - Practical examination requirements
       - UT of Ti Rectangles

                                                                           NONDESTRUCTIVE TESTING
                                                                                        JUNE 2010

       There was a request to send future Auditor Advisories to all NDT Subscriber Voting Members
       (UVM) as they are issued. PRI Staff to assure this happens.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to send future Auditor Advisories to all NDT UVM‟s as they are issued. DUE
DATE: 15-Oct-10

       The new Supplier Advisory policy was discussed. In addition, NIP 7-04 is being revised to make
       Suppliers wait a minimum of 3 months after an accreditation is withdrawn due to an advisory and
       must demonstrate corrective action has been taken on-site at time of the new audit.

       Four audits have lapsed in year-to-date out of 429.

       NTGOP-001 Appendix 1 has been revised to include a succession plan for the Task Group Chair.
       Verbiage regarding scope changes and extended frequency have also been added to reflect the
       current Task Group practice.

       A previous revision of the NTGOP-001 Appendix 1 added the use of individuals with a particular
       expertise who are not Task Group voting members in Ad-Hoc Committees. A list of these
       individuals was presented.

       Motion made by Scott Sullivan and seconded by David Vaughn to remove Dave Salerno from the
       AC7114 sub-committee until such time as he is a voting member. Motion Passed

       Motion made by David Vaughn and seconded by Scott Sullivan to approve the presented list of
       non-voting members that are listed under current Ad-Hoc Committees. Motion passed

          Adhoc Panel
       members 8Jun10.pdf

       Fangmei Chu was voted in as an Alternate Subscriber Voting Member for Honeywell Aerospace.

       John Ellegood was approved as a new member of the Filmless Radiography Ad-Hoc Committee.

       Graham Porter, Mike Jennings and Tom Dreher were approved as new members of the Eddy-
       Current Ad-Hoc Committee.

       An Auditor interview is to be conducted on 22-Jun-10. Carl Roche, Mike Clark, Mike Shiplett, Greg
       Hall, Bob Hogan, Chris Dootson, Tony Warren and Alain Bouchet to participate.


       Shelf life of Non-Aqueous developer was placed on the cans at the request of the US Federal
       Government. AC7114/1 checklist to ensure an even coating. It is already included in the proper

       For calibration of Gauss meters (Hall Effect Probe) over usable range, Helm Holtz coil is an
       accurate method to use.

       DLM 1000 meter does not read in decimal points (2 ft candles could be 2.9). Made by Gould Bass.

       The procurement of Mercury Vapor bulbs without the CE marking is an issue in Europe. Bulbs are
       imported from the USA.

       LED lights will be permitted as long as they are certified that they emit at a peak of 365
       nanometers. Battery-operated lights need to be verified before and after use due to degradation of
       intensity due to battery life.
                                                                            NONDESTRUCTIVE TESTING
                                                                                         JUNE 2010

       Magnetic Particle Testing (MT) Checklist issue, AC7114/2 paragraph 6.2.4: Use of an alternate test
       device such as TP 1-4. Some test pieces are go no go and the number of holes are not recorded.
       The use of alternate devices would be customer driven and the recording of results also depends
       upon customer requirements. The NDT Task Group decided to revise paragraph 6.2.4, Compliance
       Assessment Guidance to address this.

       There was a request to revise NTGOP-001 Appendix 1 paragraph 6.2.1 to not have the Task
       Group vote on approval on straight accreditations. This request was denied.

       Paragraph 3.1.1 was discussed. It was decided to leave as is; it is the Subscribers‟ responsibility
       to send properly qualified personnel to the meetings.

       There was a proposed revision to the Auditor Handbook regarding non-sustaining corrective
       actions. Some Task Groups go back 2 audits, while NDT goes back one. The NMC
       Standardization Sub-Committee is going to address.

       30 to 60 gauss limits – Current ASTM-E-1444 has 30 gauss minimum and no maximum as long as
       you don‟t saturate. Note: Some customers have upper limit restrictions. No change to affect the
       Nadcap checklist.

       AC7114/4, paragraph 6.7.3 use of timer not addressed by supplier‟s procedure. Eye adaptation
       time. Nothing stated in AC7114/4 that it has to be in procedure. NCR‟s have been written. Task
       group decided to leave as is. Question doesn‟t have to be in procedure as long as it does not
       specifically say it does.

       Variation in purchased density strips (not uniform throughout the thickness) is an issue. Resolution:
       Take an average (minimum 3 areas) to achieve the density number for that particular density or
       designate the specific area the reading is to be taken.

       AC7114/4 paragraph 5.6.17 – During verification of the densitometer calibration, are readings
       taken at a minimum of low, medium and high densities and are they within +- .05D of the density
       strip? This was intended to be non-prescriptive, Subscribers to add to supplements if you are more

       Baseline densities on initial chemistry change was discussed. Some suppliers adjust chemistry
       upon changed chemistry and some re-baseline. There is a potential to affect approved techniques
       if option 2 is used. Task Group to come up with consensus as to the acceptable method. RT sub-
       committee to address.

       RT densitometer issue of moving the value of the areas on the working strip when the densitometer
       is re-calibrated, or re-establishing the Baseline was discussed. It is a common process utilized and
       it was decided not to incorporate this into the checklist.

       ZL-56 issue of insufficient wetting was discussed. No conclusions were reached.

       Staff to investigate number of NCRs on 18 and 24 month merit audits to facilitate developing
       criteria on losing merit.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to investigate number of NCRs on 18 and 24 month merit audits. DUE DATE: 15-


       NUCAP appeal discussed and decision reached.


                                                                                NONDESTRUCTIVE TESTING
                                                                                             JUNE 2010

       The NMC Standardization Sub-Committee is re-evaluating the deletion of the Auditor cover letter.
       The Task Group recommends keeping the cover letter separate from the audit, sending it to PRI
       separately. It will be made available to PRI Staff and Task Group Members. It needs to be in a
       format which makes the auditor feel comfortable in giving an honest assessment. Also, it should
       be a template form so that required information is given.

       The NCR form (summary report) is repeatedly not filled out properly. The Task Group is going to
       look at changing the form to remove some questions and agreed to remove the observer comment
       as this is addressed in eAuditNet.

       New Standardization guidelines were discussed. Task Groups need to fill out a Task Request
       Form and complete a Criteria Scoring Template before approaching the Standardization Sub-
       Committee on changes to a standard requirement.

       When a Subscriber performs an audit of a Nadcap-accredited Supplier and finds nonconformances
       that should have been detected by the Nadcap Auditor, the Audit Report Comparison form must be
       filled out in order to determine if it is an auditor issue, if the checklist is not definitive enough or if
       Task Group/PRI Staff training is the issue. A sub-team was formed to review, including Phil
       Keown, Scott Sullivan, Jim Bennett, Andy Statham and David Vaughn.

ACTION ITEM: Sub-team to review Audit Report Comparison form. DUE DATE: 15-Oct-10


       Mark Aubele requested that Subscribers who have any new supplemental questions or wish to
       remove questions to please look at the ballot and comment. PRI Staff to make revisions to the
       supplements and send to supplement holders prior to the official ballot.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to make revisions to the supplements and send to supplement holders prior to the
official ballot. DUE DATE: 15-Oct-10


       The NDT Staff Report was presented.

       Staff delegation was presented and reviewed.

       NDT RAIL item 14 regarding NDT „red‟ cycle times was closed based on the fact that the last two
       reports were „yellow‟ and then „green‟. This was deemed an isolated occurrence. Gary White also
       wrote article in the June NDT Newsletter.


       Gary White presented the Supplier Support Committee report.


       The MRO Team hasn‟t met yet. Look to the business case to see if viable. Sources that do R&O
       and OEM work need to be addressed. Bob Rainone is to set up meeting for team discussion.
       Team members include: Bob Rainone (Lead), Dave Vaughn, Andy Statham, Pete Torelli, Alain
       Bouchet, Scott Sullivan and Mike Gutridge.

ACTION ITEM: Bob Rainone to set up a meeting for the sub-team discussion. DUE DATE: 15-Oct-10

       The Filmless RT Ad-hoc Committee is waiting on MAI to give standard to ASTM; should be ready
       in October 2010 for ballot.

                                                                           NONDESTRUCTIVE TESTING
                                                                                        JUNE 2010

       Phased Array – Training in October 2010 will cover checklist questions and some theory
       Composites and Metal will be covered. Composites has been developed; work still needs done for

ACTION ITEM: Dave Vaughn to develop training for Phased Array Metals. DUE DATE: 15-Oct-10

       NAS410/EN4179 – A final training session will be given 22-Jun-10 at the Singapore meeting.

       Eddy-Current – A proposed checklist will be ready in October for entire Task Group to review. A
       formal ballot will follow initial review.


       NDT Procedure Review presentation was reviewed.

         NDT Procedure
       Review and Revision JUN 10.ppt

       Further discussion with the Aerospace Quality Systems (AQS) Task Group has clarified that ISO
       17025 will be accepted if performed by an accredited body. AC7006 will be used as an equivalent
       and is exactly the same as ISO 17025.


       The Clarification Database is available in the public documents section of eAuditNet.


       See closed meeting notes under item 3.0 Task Group Resolution and Technical Issues.


       AC7114 and AC7114/1 have been translated into German. They need to be reviewed for accuracy
       by the Task Group. Juergen Burchards to review.

ACTION ITEM: Juergen Burchards to review the translated checklists for AC7114 & AC7114/1. DUE
DATE: 15-Oct-10

       Compliance is the number one hitter for all methods. A group was formed to determine what we
       are expecting and put together a presentation for Auditor Training / Supplier Symposium. Team
       members include Scott Sullivan, Tony Warren, Ed Hohman, Ron Levi, David Vaughn, Andy
       Statham, Bob Rainone and Jim Bennett. Jim Bennett to set up the first call.

ACTION ITEM: Jim Bennett to set up a conference call for compliance Auditor Training sub-team. DUE
DATE: 15-Oct-10

       Ed Hohman to develop and give presentation on rinse process for water washable Penetrant for
       the symposium in October 2010.

ACTION ITEM: Ed Hohman to create presentation on rinse process for water washable Penetrant. DUE
DATE: 15-Oct-10


       There will be a two-day session in October 2010. Thoughts included:

                                                                          NONDESTRUCTIVE TESTING
                                                                                       JUNE 2010

                Make “Performing the Audit” training interactive and not dictatorial
                Have the Auditors give the training and not the Subscribers or PRI Staff
                Pre-audit prep is an issue with time management (i.e., Procedure review prior to audit)
                PRI Scheduling department may need to give more time between audits when auditors go
                 overseas when multiple audits are going to be performed
                Go over the top 5 NCRs in each method
                Make a provision for a two-hour session for etch (Pre-Penetrant and/or Nital)
                Slot four hours for Compliance auditing
                Phased Array training is scheduled for approximately 3 hours for UT auditors
                Have a training session on multi-zone (UT sub-group to consider).
                All auditors to attend. No scheduling of audits for the training days
                Rolls-Royce to have an hour on global spec‟s

       Four teams were formed for the purpose of developing the Auditor Training presentations:

                Audit prep team: Tony Warren, Chris Dootson, Steve Bauer, Mike Shipplet
                Audit Structure team: Juergen Burchards, Phil Keown, Andy Statham, Bob Hogan
                Time Management team: Scott Sullivan, Ron Levi, Alain Bouchet, Ed Hohman, Bob
                 Rainone, Richard Constantino
                Effective Communication: Craig Hall, Carl Roche, Dave Vaughn, Fangmei Chu


       Scott Sullivan presented the third and final discussion on the changes to NAS410 Revision 3. This
       was previously presented in Pittsburgh and Rome.


       Mr. (Tamson) Jingtao Zhang and Mr. Juntao Wang of the Chinese NANDTB presented on how
       China is implementing the program.

       NANDTB-CN PPT for


       A presentation of Vision for Nadcap Audit Checklists was reviewed. Changes to NOP-002 include a
       requirement that checklist questions need to be derived from industry or Subscriber requirements.

       It was suggested that more interaction is needed between Nadcap and industry committees such
       as ASTM so that Nadcap is not seen as a standards group. NMC will look into this topic.

       Additional changes to checklists were discussed. The Task Group should consider adding the
       issues of some of the Auditor Advisories to the compliance assessment guide.


       5.1.16 – change procedure to written practice

       5.2.14 – add provisions to list the responsible level 3 by name

       5.4.5 – add eye exams not required for trainees


       6.15.5 – Define swab to cover lint free cloth/paper
                                                                              NONDESTRUCTIVE TESTING
                                                                                           JUNE 2010

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to send out an Auditor Advisory on AC7114/1 paragraph 6.13.2 and add to
compliance assessment guide, clarifying that the intent is if it works properly (even application), then it‟s
comforming (NAWD). DUE DATE: 15-Oct-10 Note: This item was cancelled later in the meeting as this is
now addressed. No change required.

        AC7114/2: – Revise to state results are to be recorded in accordance with customer requirements.


        4.3.18 – Need to look at re-defining this question as it affects tapered contoured components or
        add compliance assessment guide. This topic was turned over to the UT Method Chair to evaluate.

ACTION ITEM: UT Method Chair to evaluate AC7114/3 paragraph 4.3.18 for clarification. DUE DATE: 15-


        No new items to discuss.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to send checklists to all method chairs to schedule meeting for requirements
verification. DUE DATE: 31-Jul-10

ADJOURNMENT – 24-Jun-10 – Meeting was adjourned at 6:00 p.m.

Minutes Prepared by: Robert Hogan - Robert.hogan@honeywell.com

                             ***** For PRI Staff use only: ******

Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved
during this meeting? (select one)

YES*                                        NO

*If yes, the following information is required:

Documents requiring                Who is responsible:                           Due date: