CommWkshp2_Minutes_11192007 1211 by liuqingyan



       Last Revised: 11/19/07                Meeting Minutes                    Created By: Rick Diamond

 Meeting Name         Commercial Sector Core Group Meeting
 Meeting Date         November 19, 2007
 Meeting Time         9:00 AM – 4:00 PM PST
 Venue                Pacific Energy Center, 851 Howard St.         City         San Francisco
 Attendees            See ComWS1_Attendees.xls

Meeting Notes
  1. Rick Diamond - Welcome
           a. Topics today will include Integration across Program
                    i. Morning – Energy Efficiency, Demand Response, & Distributed Generation
                    ii. Afternoon - R&D Needs, Finance & Incentives
   2. Briefing
           a. Jeanne Clinton highlighted the need to develop a broad strategic plan for meeting
              California’s energy efficiency goals. Need to look at the broader perspective and see how
              energy efficiency relates to industries.
           b. The “End Game Strategy” is to look at market transformation and create an end-to-end
              integrated approach. Then, what steps are needed to implement zero-net energy?
           c. Need to observe the cross integration and strategic direction of various working groups
              (corporations, small business, academic institutions, utility companies, financing).
   3. Presentation
           a. Rick Diamond presented a strategic planning overview
                    i. Focus on 3 areas: New Commercial, Existing Commercial & HVAC for small
                       commercial and residential buildings
                    ii. Current State
                             1. The Commercial End Use Survey of 2006 shows the majority of energy
                                users as offices (large & small), retail, and miscellaneous building types.
                                    a. Offices, retail and miscellaneous building types are the primary
                                       users of electricity.

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                                   b. Restaurants and miscellaneous buildings consume the most
                                      commercial gas.
                                               i. Heating and cooking are the primary uses of natural gas.
                            2. The major use of electricity is lighting, followed by cooling, ventilation,
                               and refrigeration.
                            3. The perspective of financers & energy sector participants are not aligned.
                               More information can be found at
                            4. If we conduct business as usual, there will be a 20% improvement in
                               energy consumption for new buildings and a 12.5 % improvement for
                               existing buildings by 2025.
                    iii. End State Goal
                            1. An aggressive plan of action is to achieve 99% energy savings in new
                               buildings by 2030. For existing buildings, achieve 80% efficiency by
    4. Break-out session: Questions for the tables to address
            a. What does Integrated Program delivery in the commercial sector look like from the
               perspective of the customer in 2020? (Particularly in regards to Energy Efficiency,
               Demand Response, and Renewable Energy)
                     i. Ideas from dial-in phone participants
                            1. Lisa Paulo presented a one-stop shopping concept. Have one common
                               portal/website for all programs, easy access to applications, contacts, and
                            2. Carrie Mann proposed an “energy watch” program, which consolidates all
                               energy efficient resources and delivers it to the customer.
                            3. Lisa Paulo suggested a packaged financing and maintenance plan to cover
                    ii. Large commercial (2M ft.2)
                            1. Chip Fox highlighted that existing building owners need an incentive of a
                               discounted interest rate, upon meeting an EE threshold, before making a
                               large investment into energy efficiency.
                            2. Discounted rate for making upgrades to existing buildings
                    iii. Small commercial
                            1. Rick Couniham proposed that every tenant have an individual meter
                               versus having energy costs lumped-in with rent. That way, tenants have
                               greater visibility into and greater control over their energy costs and usage.
                            2. Make energy efficiency a standard part of the Property Condition
                               Assessment (PCA).

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                    iv. Academic
                            1.   Jim Flanagan added that meters could be IP addressable.
                            2. Also, he suggested creating an agency to outsource the delivery of energy
                               resources (cooling, lighting, and heating).
                            3. More universal funding and access to capital
                    v. Chain retail
                            1. One-stop shop
                            2. Use of “bounty hunters”
                            3. Feedback system that shows what can be done
            b. Is there a difference in moving these systems to 2010? Is there anything that’s inhibiting
               use from trying to achieve these goals in 3 years?
                     i. Rick Diamond suggested we look to 2010 to see what actions can be approached
            c. Action Plans: How are we going to get there? What are the action items?
                     i. Carrie Mann recommended using third party & government services to enhance
                        customer services, such as financing rebates.
                            1. Utilize and expand existing programs
                            2. Possibly negotiating financing packages
                    ii. David Vasnaik identified 3 entities: owners, funding sources, utilities.
                            1. For owners, we need to provide clear direction of where the funding is
                               coming from and any options
                            2. Bankers and other funding sources must understand that the funding is
                            3. Utilities need to ensure support of incentives.
                            4. Going back to the one-stop shop, there should be a clear and integrated
                               vision between the 3 parties.
                    iii. Peter Turnbull pointed to the differences between corporations (corporate policy)
                         and franchises (local decisions), as well as differences in the plans of action.
                            1. He stated that to start we need to understand the responsibilities of the
                               regulators, such as federal & local government and also look at the
                               benchmarks, such as carbon tracking.
                            2. Carrot vs. stick approach
                    iv. Jeanne Clinton asked if we need to train more technicians or develop software
                        solutions for rollout.

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                     v. Jeanne Clinton suggested bringing together the key decision makers and finding
                        out what it takes to rollout greener packaging by Wal-mart, or cleaner emissions
                        by McDonalds, etc.
                    vi. Steven Long pointed out the need to find universal and transparent funding for the
                        one-stop shop proposition.
                            1. State government (universal funding)
                            2. Aggregator
                            3. Oversight entity (state, utility, third parties)
                    vii. Rick Couniham said that with respect to small business, CPUC and utilities need
                         to be involved.
                            1. Time of sale (PCA) requirement & building code upgrade requirements
                               need approval by legislation and by small businesses, increasing local
                            2. Can we develop a turnkey solution and perhaps make it a local
                            3. Is metering each small business (i.e. sub-metering) possible?
            d. Pricing Structure exercise: set the price and pricing structure in 2010 or 2020 for EE, DR
               and renewables.
                     i. Karl Brown said we need to ensure all externalities are captured in price, with
                        reference to brown vs. green.
                     ii. There needs to be a short-term PV financing strategy.
                    iii. Tiered structure (use more, pay more)
                            1. Proposed an average electricity price in 2020 of $0.24/kWh, peaking at
                               $1.50/ kWh.
                            2. $2.50/therm
                    iv. Steven Long proposed TOU net metering. Added benefit when onsite generation
                            1. Combine load shifting and energy efficiency
                            2. High load factor (0.7)
                            3. Decrease rate by metering targets, every piece of equipment could have an
                               IP address.
                     v. For small businesses, Mike (Jolley?) illustrated smart-metering
                            1. TOU for everyone with pricing signals
                            2. Lower threshold for selling back self-generation to the grid
                            3. Carbon valuation
                                    a. Integration with AB32

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                                     b. Carbon tax (20-30%) versus cap-and-trade
                                     c. Utility is capped and passes onto customers.
                                               i. Utilities should be the ones that end up being capped. Give
                                                  customers 100% access to renewable credits. Leverage the
                                                  EE programs to help get consumption back down.
                             4. Leverage energy efficiency programs to bring price down.
                     vi. A.Y. Ahmed suggested a performance-based 3-tiered pricing structure. EE has a
                         $0.01/kWh discount, DR: $0.02/kWh, Renewables: $0.03/kWh.
            e. What are the unintended consequences of the recommendations which we are making?
               What are the benefits and risks?
                      i. Increased rates would drive customers out of California.
                     ii. This could drive growth in other sectors (i.e. Clean Energy).
                     iii. Customers could pay more without desired energy savings.
                     iv. Amount of imports increases due to lower energy costs abroad.
                             1. Jeanne Clinton commented that a lot of money will be paid for energy
                                without the onsite energy savings we hoped for. The importation of goods
                                will increase due to lower energy costs abroad. If we are successful in
                                driving EE, stranded /sunk costs for systems in place will need to be
                      v. Solar subsidies could run out with a high uptake rate
                     vi. Stranded Asset Costs (generation)
                    vii. David Vasnaik pointed out that the higher costs of implementing systems could
                         drive the prices up for low-end consumers.
                    viii. Dennis Murphy noted the ongoing maintenance of buildings, verification of
                          ratings, jurisdictional issues, and possible shortcomings of the rate design model.
                     ix. Additional factors
                             1. Verification issues
                             2. Questions about the rating system
                             3. FERC could override the states
                             4. Lawsuits
                             5. Politics (unpopular taxes) - Steven Long stated that turning a utility bill
                                into a state-wide tax won’t be popular
                             6. Oversight
                             7. Jobs redefined
                             8. Misalignment with municipalities

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                            9. Increased rates for non-net metering
    5. Lunch
    6. Afternoon Discussion: R&D for New and Existing
            a. Norm Bourassa from CEC PIER presented on commercial-related EE research
                     i. Buildings program funded about 10-12M/year between electric and gas
                            1. About half of that is within commercial buildings (bulk of the funding
                               goes to HVAC and lighting)
                    ii. PIER’s mandate is to reduce end-use energy for ratepayers in the state
                    iii. Areas of focus
                            1. Commission every building – existing and new buildings for both public
                               and private sector
                                   a. Addressing existing buildings – only 2% of building stock is new
                            2. Develop and adopt new technologies (developing new technologies,
                               utilizing existing technologies, and re-adapting technologies)
                                   a. LED, solid state lighting
                                   b. Cold cathode fluorescent lighting
                                   c. Refrigerators
                                   d. Evaporative A/C and condensers lifecycle (to reduce water use)
                                   e. Net zero-energy windows
                                   f. Thermal imaging and duct leakage detectors
                                   g. Natural ventilation
                                   h. External shading
                                   i. Adaptive behavior
                            3. Explore creative financing – PIER is moving more towards solicitation for
                               new projects, including research proposals
                            4. Maintaining state’s loading order at all scales – EE then DR, followed by
                                   a. Growing equipment plug loads is a factor in commercial buildings
                                      and something that needs further investigation.
                    iv. Question from Jeanne Clinton about research money distribution within PIER.
                        Norm answered that the funding is distributed between several groups:
                        Renewables, Environmentally preferred generation funds electricity generating
                        technologies, Environmental analysis group, Transportation group, and Efficiency
                        group – Indus/Ag/Water group.

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            b. Ahmed from Sempra Utilities speaking about the Emerging Technologies group at
                     i. Funding is $2.3 M/year for three years for emerging technologies ($1 M for SCG,
                        $1.3 M for SDGE per year)
                            1. Goal: fix the disconnect between commercialization and R&D
                            2. Takes technologies that research organizations (like PIER) develop and
                               test them in the field for maintenance and operating costs. If this is cost
                               effective then it’s moved into Energy Efficiency group for implementation
                               and distribution to ratepayers.
                            3. Potential applicable technologies they are currently investigating
                                   a. LED lighting in commercial uses and other high efficiency lighting
                                   b. Advanced A/C technologies including ceiling radiant cooling,
                                      hot/dry air conditioner
                                   c. Water heating technologies: tankless water heater, working with
                                      CEE to bring those technologies to the market
                                   d. Reducing energy consumption in motors
                            4. Ahmed believes that the goals here are reachable but research needs to be
                               done and moved into programs.
                            5. Rick Diamond asked what the criterion is to select which technologies are
                               moved into programs. Ahmed answered: There is a council that discusses
                               projects and works with researchers and CEC to choose the ones with the
                               most potential
                                   a. For example, to reduce energy consumption in office buildings,
                                      they are looking at cooling in a holistic manner including HVAC,
                                      lighting, process loads, and other plug loads. The vision for this is
                                      the “building of the future.”
                                   b. Sunlight direct: solar dish with fiber optics to illuminate office
                                      building. Needs to be shown that it is reliable and can be
            c. Lee Cooper from PG&E speaking about emerging technology.
                     i. There currently is an Emerging Technology state-wide program that gets together
                        ET groups from other IOUs every quarter.
                    ii. Their group currently has two emerging technologies portfolios: one specifically
                        around lighting and HVAC, the other looking at electronics and office equipment
                        plug loads
                    iii. Additional areas that need more focus include lighting design, and how to
                         incorporate envelopes

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            d. Rick Diamond encourages group to think of R&D in the long term, 10-20 years out.
            e. Karl Brown talking about the national picture of R&D
                      i. PIER and ET are some of the largest funds going to energy efficiency technology
                         and extremely influential
                     ii. Notes the need to work with municipal utilities such as SMUD (esp. in A/C and
                         commissioning efforts)
                    iii. Energy efficiency research is taking place in other states as well (for example, NY
                         State Energy Research and Development Authority, NYSERDA).
                    iv. National funding comes from US EPA and Department of Energy (DOE)
                     v. Karl notes an opportunity to increase the amount of funding that goes into
                        commercial buildings and aggregate funds from multiple sources to research
                             1. CA Lighting Technology Center
                             2. Solar Center
                             3. NSF-funded Center (Center for the Built Environment, CBE, at UC
                    vi. Big Bold Strategies are designed to be aligned with national initiatives and the
                        vision for 2030.
                             1. Supported by additional groups including ASHRE and AIA
                    vii. National Initiatives
                             1. Commercial Buildings Initiative: joint effort of LBL and Alliance to Save
                                Energy targeted for new and existing building in the 2030 time frame
                             2. “Getting to 50” Initiative - cut energy load from buildings in half in an
                                effort to step closer to zero net-energy buildings. This can be achieved
                                using existing EE technology.
    7. Existing buildings breakout: Jeanne Clinton and Norm Bourassa addressing R&D needs (short,
       mid and long term)
            a. Breakouts will discuss six end uses (from electric usage pie chart)
                      i. What kind of R&D or Emerging Technology work needs to be done?
                     ii. How do we influence sponsors of R&D to do this work?
                    iii. What kind of players need to be engaged to move this to commercialization?
                    iv. Have an end-use in mind, goal is to have 50% (by 2020) – 80% reduction (by
                        2030) in end-use (quantum leaps, not small incremental change)
            b. HVAC & Space Heating
                      i. What kind of R&D or Emerging Technology work needs to be done?

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                            1. Research high efficiency equipment, advanced HVAC controls to provide
                               heating and cooling exactly where it is needed rather than the whole
                               floor/building. This will require reorganizing the distribution systems.
                            2. Solar-assisted cooling and heating system
                            3. Ground source heat systems
                            4. Advance envelope systems/heat recovery from the building shell or A/C
                            5. Control systems and potential automation of control systems.
                    ii. How do we influence sponsors of R&D to do this work?
                            1. Look more into ideation and angel funding to encourage innovation from
                               smaller inventors. PIER does have a small program that does this but they
                               want to expand this.
                            2. Restart IOU R&D programs to complement PIER. Norm Bourassa from
                               PIER concurs with the suggestion for financial cooperation with IOUs.
                               This is to focus Emerging Technologies (ET) for long-term projects.
                            3. Fund more R&D into fundamental work, recruiting national laboratories
                               and other research entities.
                            4. Sponsor contest with manufacturers to design more highly efficient
                               technology. This gives them more incentive to exceed minimum EE
                            5. Work with manufacturers to provide utility incentive programs.
                            6. The group did not discuss national sponsors but rather only considered
                               California funding.
                    iii. What kind of players need to be engaged to move this to commercialization?
                            1. Early adopters - through utility program pilots, beyond ET into larger scale
                            2. The public - through information forums: for example, World’s Fair to
                               enhance public involvement and raise awareness. “Green technology
                               forum” with the general public/consumer as the target audience.
                    iv. Questions/Comments
                            1. Cal Broomhead (CCSF) asks if the group discussed a tool or black box
                               that can provide constant retro-commissioning, even buildings that are
                               consistently maintained. The local government is interested in requiring
                               retro-commission on a 5 year period.
                                   a. The group is unsure whether this is self or third-party retro-

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                                   b. The group responds that they discussed control systems and that
                                      the failure in these systems is due to lack of maintenance.
                                      Additionally, owners do not have the funds to repair these issues.
            c. Refrigeration & Cooking
                     i. What kind of R&D or Emerging Technology work needs to be done?
                            1. Reduce door-less refrigeration at grocery stores
                            2. Improvements to motors, compressors and other parts of refrigeration
                            3. Zoned refrigeration
                            4. Solar energy to pre-heat
                            5. Better controls with open architectures to control amount of time the
                               burner is on
                            6. Waste heat recovery
                            7. On-site methane use and generation from food waste
                            8. Investigate synergy between cooking and heat generation, etc. or energy
                               and water synergy with waste reduction
                    ii. How do we influence sponsors of R&D to do this work?
                            1. Engage sponsors through “code as carrot” concept – California will create
                               a code if you create a technology that is energy efficient (a negotiated
                            2. Lease-financing idea
                                   a. Gives incentive to remove old equipment in the leasing industry
                                   b. Pool funds from commercial food handling into a fund that goes
                                      into R&D and to improve incentives
                    iii. What kind of players need to be engaged to move this to commercialization?
                            1. Manufacturers, government, finance people
            d. Water heating
                     i. What kind of R&D or Emerging Tech. work needs to be done?
                            1. Solar - issues of cost and density
                            2. System design of water heating systems that are put into buildings
                               including equipment integration
                            3. Condensing water heaters to lower cost
                            4. Heat recovery to heat water without the boiler
                            5. Improved controls
                    ii. How do we influence sponsors of R&D to do this work?

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                            1. Regulatory push by getting codes and standards on a national level to
                               advance codes.
                            2. Having requirements in the codes regarding pre-piping for solar, i.e.
                               making the building ready for solar water heating
                            3. Raise water heating up to the level of lighting, increase awareness and
                               a. Water heating research/study can also have a center like the CLTC
                    iii. What kind of players need to be engaged to move this to commercialization?
            e. Lighting
                     i. What kind of R&D or Emerging Tech. work needs to be done?
                            1. Active solar lighting
                            2. LEDs
                            3. Doing a better job with the best technology that is out there today in
                               controls, day lighting, and maximizing the utilization of these
                            4. Better education to users about lower light levels and task lighting
                            5. Localized controls and lighting
                            6. Fiber optic daylight research being performed as well
                            7. Self-commissioning lighting controls
                    ii. How do we influence sponsors of R&D to do this work?
                            1. “Office of the future” provides great market for furniture manufacturers
                            2. Market force driven – companies can look where new potential markets
                               are, where the opportunity is, etc.
                    iii. What kind of players need to be engaged to move this to commercialization?
                            1. Controls and design community
                            2. Furniture manufacturers
                            3. End-users, tenants
    8. New construction breakout – Long-term R&D Needs
            a. Discussion should include big box retail, schools, offices (large)
            b. Geographic location should also be considered – coastal vs. inland
            c. General comments
                     i. With new construction, there is a “blank slate”, anything can be done
                    ii. With integrated design, R&D opportunities can be optimized applying a basic
                        strategy for new construction using “Savings by Design”
            d. Found 10 key strategies for 2015 Savings by Design

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                      i. Perform sustainability assessments
                             1. Integrate water, energy and renewables into a holistic perspective using
                                day lighting with fiber optics
                             2. Embodied energy choices approach energy use
                     ii. Study the impacts of microenvironments on buildings
                             1. Build a modeling tool that integrates shade, water, RH and IAQ (i.e. heat
                     iii. Improve power electronics for vehicle-to-grid model
                             1. Batteries
                             2. Charging/discharging mechanisms
                                    a. Charge off-peak and discharge peak
                             3. Home vs. work
                             4. Net-metering
                     iv. Partial DC Infrastructure Migration
                             1. Use renewables, PV or batteries as DC sources
                             2. Need to optimize building scale DC systems
                      v. Perform “green” data center optimization with server virtualization
                     vi. Improve cooling practices
                             1. Need modeling tool for natural ventilation
                             2. Indirect and evaporative cooling
                             3. Aggregation of renewable resource data and modelling tool
                                    a. Optimize mix of WWD, solar, geography, etc. for a given location
                    vii. Recognize and plan for unknown future plug loads
                             1. Put pressure on manufacturers through public outreach and incentives
                    viii. Utilize behavior R&D based on occupant feedback and market players to help
                          modify customer’s behavior
                             1. Sub-meter cubicle (payroll bonus, deduction)
                     ix. Develop and deploy advanced controls: Bluetooth-like integrated controls through
                         personal devices to turn on lighting, heating/cooling, computer, etc. similar to
                         hotel room (where one inserts room key to turn on lights and AC) or potentially
                         through RFID. This could also enhance information storage, retrieval and
                         guidance for maintenance people who can access it anywhere in the building.
                     x. Workplace configuration optimization (personalization, hoteling, telecommuting)

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            e. Summary: Existing commercial and new construction had unique R&D ideas/categories.
               Rick Diamond states that funders need to be aware of these unique needs.
    9. Finance and Incentives (“Possible Financing Mechanisms for Buildings” document)
            a. How to finance these suggested improvements?
                     i. Gain access to capital by reaching into cash flow or through a lease
                     ii. Mechanism that manages cash flow, usually spending capital is offset by
                         operating cost savings.
            b. What kinds of incentives will help accomplish the desired changes?
                     i. Financial incentives in the form of utility rebates, performance payments, tax
                        credits (federal and/or state)
                     ii. Some market segments could be receptive to technical assistance with product
                         design, project development or project management orchestration.
                    iii. Local government-level incentive: new construction receives expedited permit
                         processing and handling for “green buildings.”
                            1. This is already being done in San Francisco.
            c. Green building financing for commercial buildings
                     i. Promote innovative private sector financing
                     ii. Increasing access to capital with revolving loan fund for energy efficiency
                    iii. CalPERS and Calsters (pension systems) support a debt financing system
                    iv. Utility incentives reward projects that have 30-40% energy savings
                     v. Utility billed discounts
                    vi. Tax incentives
                    vii. On-going financing
            d. Using an integrated approach to combine EE, DR and renewables can draw additional
                     i. For public sector buildings, focus on third-party leasing, revenue bonds, and/or
                        providing technical assistance and project management in exchange.
                     ii. Federal and state tax incentives
            e. Chip Fox (SDG&E) from “large office owner” perspective – what is going to be attractive
               to builders
                     i. Green building equity fund could offer a discount rate for a business (“Green”
                            1. Jeanne Clinton asked for clarification if the funds are to improve existing
                               buildings or to purchase new green buildings. Chip answers that it is to

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                               make improvements on existing buildings, whether it is providing green
                               building consultants, etc.
                    ii. Wells Fargo or other lending institutions will offer lower percentage rates for
                        home loans if x% is EE. This provides long-term incentives for homeowners.
                    iii. Educate design teams about how to work with an integrated approach
                    iv. Tiered incentive rate
                    v. Incentives for capital investments
                            1. Increase awareness of savings in the long-term, year-over-year
            f. Combining carbon trading with financing
                     i. “Green bank” that provides up-front financing, made available immediately.
                        Financer would get carbon credits until loan is paid back.
                            1. Audience member is concerned about the timing and availability.
            g. Integrate the nature of incentive programs, codes serving as the main drivers with
               incentives tactically positioned
                     i. Look at state policy and potentially dove tailing existing building codes and have
                        those serve as the key drivers and use the incentive program to enhance those
                            1. An example of this is the improvement in refrigerators.
                                   a. Rick Diamond notes that the refrigerator-focused system was very
                                      ad-hoc, is that the best approach?
                            2. Recognize that incentives won’t single-handedly reduce usage. We can’t
                               “buy” our way to energy efficiency goals.
                            3. Use code markers to drive the improvements. Incentives go to consumers
                               to enhance adoption.
                                   a. This will help drive long-term performance through periodic
                                      incentive programs.
                                   b. Combination of long-term strategy with code and short/medium
                                      term incentives
            h. Dennis Murphy brings up two ideas around first costs
                     i. “Berkeley model” financing for alternative energy projects (solar/EE) and
                        potentially transferring that approach to the commercial sector
                            1. Jeanne Clinton states it’s for small commercial and residential owners
                            2. Solar and EE for properties that voluntarily sign up. The cost is then
                               rolled into property tax for that property. Therefore the cost resides with
                               the property.
                            3. For small commercial, PC and EE can be funded through bonds

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                    ii. Toronto is developing a “zero footprint energy” program. Developers lock in
                        rates/prices for energy usage and install their own zero footprint energy solution.
                        Mostly ground sourcing functions. It is a for-profit model.
            i. Cal Broomhead brings up an additional concern regarding San Francisco’s building
               inspection department.
                     i. State should require that inspectors get green building training.
                    ii. San Francisco is sending inspectors to this training but it is not currently required
                        by the state.
                    iii. The incentive for builders is that it reduces the risk that an inspection could halt
                    iv. Dennis Murphy asks – what is required now? Cal Broomhead says they are getting
                        regular Title-24 training and life/safety training but beyond that he does not know.
            j. Karen Maoz (KEMA) brings up the need for small commercial incentives and finding
               other routes for incentives, possibly sustainable incentives. Suggests implementing
               Berkeley model for small commercial.
            k. Karl suggests consumers would be willing to pay for energy efficiency improvements.
               Philanthropic parties can be engaged as well.
            l. Existing space will be renovated soon, especially the lighting aspect. A committee should
               ensure these renovations are done with EE improvements in mind.
                     i. Have strong standards for renovations that are EE driven
                    ii. Capture savings (versus “buying down” incremental costs)
                    iii. Peter Turnbull notes there is a cost to “beat the code” and there is an incentive to
                         bring down that cost.
            m. Financing comment from Hank Ryan: San Diego program design, including on-bill
               financing, can be used as a template for other utilities and also used to create a statewide
    10. *Future workshop issue* - how to do a better job of integrating building codes and standards
    11. Wrap Up
            a. Dec. 4th and 6th additional workshops
            b. Revisiting the need for 18th and 20th for two more workshops
            c. 12/4 - Three topics for workshop at ERC, Southern California
                     i. Small Commercial HVAC
                    ii. O&M
                    iii. Integrated DSM (DR, DG, Solar, Automated Metering)
            d. 12/6 - Title-24 integration, specific market segments, owner groups, rates, investors, who
               are the players for the sub-sectors in the market, local government involved as well

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Commercial Sector                                                                              Workshop #2
November 19, 2007                                                                            Meeting Minutes

            e. The group is still in data gathering input mode
            f. Goal – written working draft in 4-5 weeks. Draft that goes to Utility writing team – 1/6.
               Final public draft – 2/1. Final plan early May.

Action Items
 No     Description                                                   Responsible         Due by

New or Updated Issues
 New     Issue/Action    Impact     Status     Type        Owner   Due Date    Raised    Log Reference
 or                                                                            By        #

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