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					RECORDED
                        REGULAR KETCHUM CITY COUNCIL MEETING
                            Monday, November 3, 2008 at 5:30 p.m.
                             Ketchum City Hall, Ketchum, Idaho

Present:             Mayor Randy Hall
                     Councilman Larry Helzel
                     Councilman Curtis Kemp
                     Councilman Charles Conn
Absent:              Council President Baird Gourlay
Also Present:        Ketchum City Administrator Gary Marks (left early)
                     City Attorney Stephanie Bonney
                     Ketchum City Clerk Sandra E. Cady
                     Ketchum Office Assistant Katie Carnduff
                     Ketchum Office Assistant Kathleen Schwartzenberger
                     Ketchum Community and Economic Development Director Lisa Horowitz
                     Ketchum Associate Planner Mark Goodman
                     Ketchum Building Official Dennis Keierleber
                     Recording Secretary Ashley Whitesell
                     (Minutes written by alternate recording secretary Sunny Grant)

The meeting was called to order by Mayor Randy Hall at 5:30pm.

1. MAYOR AND COUNCILMEMBERS COMMENTS
There were no comments at this time.

2. PUBLIC COMMENT ON ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA
Phyllis Shafran – Since LeRoy’s donated their stand in Town Plaza to the CDC, and the stand is now
closed for the season, I’d like to know how much money they’ve donated to the CDC, and who got what.
I know there were local businesses, such as The Chocolate Factory, that were hurt by the ice cream stand.
Councilman Charles Conn – This isn’t City business, but I’m on the CDC Board, so I can tell you that
the distribution has not yet been determined because they’re still closing the books. We’ll decide this at
the next Board meeting.
Councilman Larry Helzel – The CDC had a Board meeting a couple weeks ago and confirmed that the
books are being closed and that the proceeds will be distributed to four organizations. I would expect that
that information will be available very shortly.
Councilman Charles Conn – There is one paid Staff member, and the receiving organizations otherwise
staffed the ice cream stand.

3. QUESTIONS FROM THE PRESS
Gary Stivers, Sun Valley Online – How goes the negotiations with the Guyer Hot Springs?
Mayor Randy Hall – We’re assembling a Blue Ribbon team that will meet tomorrow at 1:30 in the City
Clerk’s office, and we’ll have a lot more information for you then.

4. Resolution 08-091 - a resolution of the City of Ketchum City Council authorizing the City
    Treasurer/Clerk to pay certain vendors prior to submitting the bills to City Council.
Ketchum City Clerk Sandra Cady – This resolution authorizes the City Clerk to pay certain vendors
prior to submitting their bill to the Council as part of the Consent Calendar. I’ve given Councilmembers a
revised list of those vendors, and have gone over this list with City Attorney Stephanie Bonney this
morning. Stephanie and I feel pretty comfortable that these particular vendors are regular monthly bills,
like the payroll, insurance, the State Tax Commission, utilities, etc. that have to be paid at the end of the
month before the next regular Council meeting.
Councilman Larry Helzel – You eliminated a large number of vendors that were included on the first
list.
Sandra Cady – Yes, we did.
Councilman Charles Conn – And we are sure that these are ―blue ribbon‖ folks who are open to a credit
or refund if we find a discrepancy after paying the bill.
Sandra Cady - They will credit us on the next bill.
City Administrator Gary Marks – I have nothing to add.
Councilman Larry Helzel moved to pass Resolution 08-091, a resolution of the City of Ketchum
City Council authorizing the City Treasurer/Clerk to pay certain vendors prior to submitting the
bills to City Council. Motion seconded by Councilman Charles Conn, and passed unanimously.
Please see Resolution Number 08-091 on following page.

5. Resolution 08-119 - a resolution of the City Council of the City of Ketchum, Idaho, authorizing
    the Mayor to execute a contract for services with Banyan Technology, Inc., in the amount of
    $10,960 to provide SCADA system maintenance and services to the City of Ketchum Utilities
    Department.
Ketchum Utilities Superintendent Steven Hansen – This is a budgeted item—an annual agreement that
we’ve done with Banyan Technology for the last five or six years. The SCADA system is a highly
technical system that operates and maintains the sewer system and water system, and requires frequent
upgrading. We’re constantly adding equipment and ways and parameters to monitor both our utilities
systems, and this agreement assures that Banyan will be available on a 24/7 basis and gives us priority
over their other clients.
Councilman Curtis Kemp moved to pass Resolution 08-119, a resolution of the City Council of the
City of Ketchum, Idaho, authorizing the Mayor to execute a contract for services with Banyan
Technology, Inc., in the amount of $10,960 to provide SCADA system maintenance and services to
the City of Ketchum Utilities Department. Motion seconded by Councilman Larry Helzel, and
passed unanimously.
Please see Resolution Number 08-119 on following page.

6. Presentation of NOAA Award-Mike McNeil
Acting Police Chief Mike McNeil – Former Ketchum Police Chief Cory Lyman talked about purchasing
a NOAA transmitter for placement on top of Baldy. That was done on October 14, and is now functional.
I want to present to you a certificate from the National Weather System. Our community and all of Blaine
County is now ―storm ready,‖ which means we have the ability to transmit and pick-up national weather
forecasts for our specific area. This area now covers from Stanley to Shoshone, and Fairfield, and you can
pick it up on Banner Summit on Highway 21. We now have the ability to use their radios for weather
updates—flash floods, thunderstorms, avalanches—anything they want to alert us to. We have two signs
at the entries to Ketchum so all citizens in the community are aware that we are storm ready.
One benefit of this system is that citizens will receive 25% on their homeowners insurance.
We thank the Mayor and former Police Chief for their support, and Blaine County Disaster Services
Coordinator Chuck Turner.
Mayor Randy Hall – Part of the urgency was that we used over $30,000 out of the Police Trust Fund to
get the project completed on top of Baldy before the winter season, since we’re worried about flooding
and landslides as a result of the Castle Rock Fire.
Assistant Chief Mike McNeil – The County has authorized up to $16,500 reimbursement to the City of
Ketchum for our portion of the transmitter. This money will actually be used to purchase a Polycom video



                             November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting                Page 2 of 14
conferencing system similar to ones that Sun Valley and the Blaine County Disaster Coordinator have, in
the event one of us experiences a disaster that could potentially disrupt communication between us.

7. KSVCVB Quarterly Report-Carol Waller
Ketchum-Sun Valley Chamber and Visitors Bureau Director Carol Waller – I emailed all of you the
quarterly report for April-June 2008, which now seems ages ago, so I’ll just highlight a few things.
We came through the summer in fairly good shape, considering gas prices in early summer and the
national economy, but the economic situation in September changed things dramatically for everybody in
a lot of different sectors, including travel and tourism. We’re trying to do what we can to maximize our
efforts, while clearly understanding that we’re going to feel the effect like everyone else this fall and
winter. People will still travel, but will be more value conscious and stay closer to home.
As you know, we went through a new branding and creative strategy exercise this year to give us a new
look and feel and message, and I think it stands out very creative compared to our competition.
For a destination, we don’t have a huge marketing budget, and we’re up against a lot of competitors.
We’ve had great success with our PR program over the years, and are really putting a lot of effort into
that this year. We’re highlighting the arts and skiing and Nordic skiing, and have a bunch of targeted
writers that we’re going to bring out here this winter … in most cases, that won’t pay off until next
season, so it’s an investment for the long term.
We did a regional campaign this fall. We are one ski resort community that has a fairly strong fall season,
with a reason to come to Sun Valley almost every weekend.
We are now working on the value message with our lodging properties to get some great low season rates.
I think the Special Olympics will be a nice hit at the right time this winter, and I have to say that
Christmas is looking solid, with a lot of repeat business; and we are working with the airlines on some
special promotions. Our year-to-date bookings are down about 15%, but we’re trying every tool in the
toolbox to continue to market the community and drive the message on value.
Councilman Larry Helzel – Vail has been very promotional with their season ski passes. How do you
think that’s going to affect us?
Carol Waller – It’s going to hurt. They have a $529 season pass at all three of their resorts. Vail pulled
out of their Colorado Ski Country USA trade association, and are doing a lot of their own marketing.
Jim Rosenthal, Ketchum resident – How’s that pass structured?
Carol Waller – It’s called Epic Pass, and gets you to Breckenridge, Vail and Beaver Creek.
Mayor Randy Hall – Jim, you’re not thinking about making a reservation, are you?
City Administrator Gary Marks – Our LOT at the end of the year was down 2-3%.
Mayor Randy Hall – That’s all we’re down, and I think that includes being closed down for Labor Day
last year. We’ll cross our fingers … and we need snow.
Carol Waller – I remember telling you after 9/11 that we had to be realistic and expect a double-digit
decrease, which is what was happening in the industry, and we ended up down less than 10%, although
that situation bounced back faster then than I think it’s going to bounce back this year.
Everyone here needs to invite friends and family, and spend money locally.
Mayor Randy Hall – We all need to work on economic development, and we need hot beds, which will
bring their own marketing budget.

8. American Legion Flag Mounts-Maurice Charlat
Maurice Charlat, Commander of Post 115 American Legion David Ketchum Post – The American
Legion seeks approval to place brackets on the green metal poles around town so we can put American
flags on the brackets for ―flag‖ holidays—Memorial Day, the 4th of July, Labor Day, Veterans Day, etc. A
group of us older fellas get together every flag day and plant the flags around town where the green poles
are. The new buildings have some pretty nice masonry and the owners are reluctant to give us permission
to put our holders on their buildings, so we’re losing positions. The green crossbar poles are quite perfect

                             November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting               Page 3 of 14
for our brackets, so, if you can help us mount the flag-holders on the green poles, we will provide the
flags and labor.
The brackets we’re planning to use now are different from what is in your packets. If you give us your
conditional approval, we’ll get together with the Street Department, who has already reviewed this and
okayed it, and put together a demonstration pole. You can see what it will look like with the promotional
banners, etc. We want to make sure we don’t get in the way of the buses and anything else. If you okay it,
we’ll ask the City to install the brackets by May, 2009, and we’ll take it from there.
Mayor Randy Hall – Street Superintendent Brian Christiansen has no problem with this, and doesn’t
think it will create any problems with his department, so I would encourage us to go ahead with this.
Councilmembers – We agree.
Mayor Randy Hall – Maurice, I want to thank you for your service to our country and thank you and the
Legion for giving us the freedom to speak our minds tomorrow, on Election Day.

9. Resolution 08-117 providing for execution of a right-of-way agreement between the City of
     Ketchum and Bruce and Heather Pedersen, concerning the construction, installation and
     maintenance of improvements within a portion of Spruce Avenue, City of Ketchum.
     Discussion on the application of Bruce Pedersen for a right-of-way encroachment permit,
     located within the City’s right of way adjacent to 531 Spruce Avenue.
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – We’re discussing a roof overhang that’s installed in the public-
right-of-way on Spruce Avenue. It hangs directly above the garage entrance, and I’ve included a graphic
that shows the dimensions of the encroachment. There is a remodel of an existing residence located at 531
Spruce Avenue that received its original building permit on August 3, 2004, and has been under
construction for several years. The building permit has since expired. The building was built under the
existing non-conforming building regulations in our Zoning Code.
A portion of the garage was left in place, so the garage entrance is right on the property line, and a small
portion extends over the right-of-way, which was permitted under the original building permit. They
removed the existing garage roof and replaced it with a deck and roof structure, and also extended the
roof overhang into the public right-of-way which was never shown on any plans or approved by the City.
I’ve included a Right-of-Way Encroachment Agreement that would take all liability away from the City
in case the overhang is damaged or needs to be removed. The roof overhang extends 2'7" into the public
right-of-way, and is 8'10" above the driveway grade.
The Street Department doesn’t think the overhang will interfere with snow removal or street operations.
The Fire Department’s general policy is against any form of right-of-way encroachment. The City
Engineer doesn’t feel that right-of-way encroachments are appropriate, but mainly because it’s a city
policy, and he isn’t otherwise concerned about it. There doesn’t appear to be any danger or issues, so it’s
a question of whether it’s appropriate.
The applicant has installed curb and gutter 7' off of the property line, as the City requires.
Councilman Curtis Kemp – Is the 7' a City requirement?
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – That was recommended by the City Engineer. The property to the
north also installed curb and gutter 7' off the property line, for drainage, because of the steep slope there.
Mayor Randy Hall – If we don’t allow it, what do they do?
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – The front portion would have to come off, so they wouldn’t have
any overhang on the front portion of the garage.
Councilman Curtis Kemp – Is the encroachment 16½"?
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – I’m not sure if that’s exactly correct, but that would make sense.
We noticed the encroachment awhile back, and, right now, they’re under a ―Stop Work‖ order due to a
variety of things. They need to take care of this overhang; and then will be applying for a building permit
to finish the building.


                             November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting                 Page 4 of 14
Councilman Charles Conn – What was approved under the building permit in 2004?
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – I believe the original roof was sloped, and the building permit was
for a roof deck. It was basically the same garage structure in the same place, but without the overhang.
Councilman Curtis Kemp – Did the original roof overhang?
Bruce Pedersen, applicant – It is about 16½" from the base of the building, and it was not on the original
plans. The original building was a gable end, that stuck out probably 10-12" off the gable end. When we
first discovered this, I worked with the City Attorney and I put up a $6,000 bond, which we determined
would be the cost of removal if we had to do it. Instead of making it a deck, we pulled it back and just put
the deck rail aligned with the building walls so it would be an architectural feature. The plans went
through several revisions, and it’s been a long process, and I’m doing my best to try to get it finished. I
bought it as a non-conforming property and worked within the building envelope, so I made other
modifications along the way and worked with three different staff turnovers in the last few years, which
has added to the delays.
I request that I be allowed to keep it, because, even though it wasn’t on the plans, the Code allows me to
keep what was there; and I was told that I couldn’t put it back on if I took it off.
Councilman Curtis Kemp – Do you have a photo of it the way it was originally?
Bruce Pedersen – I have one on an appraisal, but I don’t have it with me.
Councilman Larry Helzel – When did you discuss this with the former City Attorney, who noticed that
it was built without plans?
Bruce Pedersen – Probably about 2½ years ago, when I bonded, and tried to get all the plans and entities
involved to satisfy Dennis’s requirements..
Councilman Larry Helzel – When was the ―stop work‖ order posted?
Bruce Pedersen – The spring of last year. Then I requested an extension last fall, which I did not get; and
then this season just got away.
Councilman Charles Conn – I don’t like a right-of-way encroachment on principal. How is it that this
got into a set of plans that wasn’t the set of plans given to the City for the building permit in 2004?
Bruce Pedersen – The style of the building went through several revisions and architects and engineers
changed. My logic was that if it was there before … If I had the chance to do it over, I’d do things a lot
differently. The original plans didn’t show any overhangs on any of the building, and were closer to the
original structure.
Mayor Randy Hall – Is there public comment?
Michael and Esther Ochsman (Note read by Jake Peters, neighbor of the applicant) – ―My husband and
I live at 660 E. Sixth St., and our southeast corner touches the subject property. We have watched the
construction and stop work red tagging of this house. We are ultimately interested in having the
construction completed in compliance with the City Code. In light of the number of outstanding building
issues that have not yet been resolved, we would encourage the City Council to postpone the decision on
this right-of-way permit and consider it in conjunction with other unresolved issues with which Associate
Planner Mark Goodman is very familiar.‖
Jake Peters, neighbor of the applicant – My issue with this is that the neighbors are the ones having to
pay penance for this thing. This house is totally different from what was there before; and the neighbors
have issue with the fact that there’s been a bunch of red tags. It’s been under construction for years. I had
the pleasure of meeting Bruce for the first time this afternoon. We just want it done. We want to have
good relations with our new neighbor; but we’ve had to live through this thing that never gets finished.
I don’t think anybody cares about 16", and nobody driving by is ever going to notice that this thing is
non-compliant, so I don’t really think there’s value to the City or the neighbors or anybody to make him
redo this even though he got it there in the wrong way. Is there some other benefit that the applicant could
offer the City—a gift or bond or something to the whole city—to make amends for the way this process
has been managed so poorly? The neighbors just want to get it finished, and be done with the dumpsters


                             November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting                Page 5 of 14
and pick-up trucks. Can we come to some sensible outcome and not just fix something that probably
doesn’t need to get fixed.
Marghee Scott, representing Irene Blodget, who lives to the north of Mr. Pedersen – We’ve also had
concerns about this property all along. Irene built her house according to everything the City has asked,
and we’re just now getting finished with it. It’s probably been 15 months and she has complied with
everything but the curb and gutter. We’ve changed the level of her driveway to be sure it complied with
the City’s requirements; and we’re concerned about how it’s going to work if the driveway becomes a
sidewalk. Irene has jumped through hoops to comply with the City.
Irene’s concerns are pretty much the same as Mr. Peters. She wants to be a good neighbor, but the work
order has been in place for 14 months, and we just want to make sure that everything is taken care of.
We’re also concerned that there were three separate kitchens and all those things that we addressed last
year. We want to make you aware that there are some issues here, and ask you to take care of them.
Councilman Charles Conn – Mark, are there other issues that we’re going to see again?
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – Not as far as public right-of-way issues before the Council. I’ve
waited to bring this to you to be sure that we brought everything at once. They were required to resubmit
a building permit, and we’ll go through the normal channels of review for a building permit. We don’t
anticipate anything that will require further right-of-way encroachment.
I spoke to the city engineer about putting a sidewalk in there, and we don’t anticipate doing that at this
time. He expressed concern about never being able to be ADA compliant, but neither he nor the Street
Department has any driveway issues at this time.
It’s zoned LR, which is single family, and we typically don’t require sidewalks in those areas.
Councilman Charles Conn – What precedent do we have for charging for right-of-way encroachments?
When I get an access for land on the BLM, for example, I pay for it.
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – They pay a permit fee, which is relatively inexpensive, and they
have to sign an agreement with the City.
Mayor Randy Hall – I’d like to get a big picture. There’s been a stop work order on this for 14 months?
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – That’s correct. They’ve been allowed to do very limited amounts
of work, such as repairing water damage.
Mayor Randy Hall – What are the other issues?
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – This was the major planning and zoning issue. Planning would
like to review plans that reflect what is actually being built, so that’s what we’re requiring with this
building permit resubmittal.
There are some building code issues that Dennis can discuss.
Building Official Dennis Keierleber – The stop work order was actually longer than 14 months ago.
During a planning inspection, the inspector requested some framing details, and he couldn’t get those
because there was no longer an engineer associated with the project. When the inspector started looking
into it a little more, he found out that the building wasn’t built at all like the plans that were submitted and
approved. We asked Bruce to get a structural engineer’s letter saying that he approved the changes that
were done for the building, but could never get that. By then, the original permit had run the two years we
allowed it. When the original permit was issued, it was only for 18 months, but since the permit length
was changed to two years after it was issued, we allowed him two years, and then gave him a one-year
extension, which gave him three years to build.
When that three years was up, we informed Bruce that his permit was null and void, and he had to
resubmit new drawings. He appealed that to our Appeal Board, and they agreed, so we’re now waiting.
Last I saw, Bruce brought in some floor plans that were more accurate; but we haven’t seen the rest of the
drawings or the report from the engineer. The Planning Department asked him for a cross section, and
basic plans, which we haven’t seen yet.
Mayor Randy Hall – Jake, I’m trying to find a way to get this wrapped up and get it done, but I’m not
hearing anything that gives us much leverage over this at all, because Mr. Pedersen apparently can’t even

                              November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting                 Page 6 of 14
comply with the request of our building inspector, so I don’t think he’s going to be interested in what we
determine on the overhang.
Mr. Pedersen, it seems that we’ve got a long history with this. I know you want to be a good neighbor as
well. Help us to help you. What do we need to do to get this project done?
Bruce Pedersen – All the stuff I’ve done I’ve pulled from several engineers and the original engineer of
record on the plans, which were different from the ones that were actually built. So the new engineers
reviewed everything, and he has the plans. I’m validating a few more measurements now, and we have a
grade certificate from Benchmark. The original engineer was from Pocatello, but I’m now working with
CTA, which is local and easier. I hoped to have it done a long time ago, but I’m doing something outside
my realm of expertise.
Mayor Randy Hall – You can understand the position we’re in. What’s to keep us from thinking this
might go on for several more years?
Bruce Pedersen – This has cost me money as well, so I’m very incented to get it done. I extend my
apologies to the neighbors. My goal is to bring my family here and become an active member of the
community and be a part-time or full-time resident.
Mayor Randy Hall – The fact that you want to be a stakeholder in the community helps me a little bit.
What kind of timeframe are we looking at?
Bruce Pedersen – If I had heat in that house, I could live in it. The appliances are in …
Mayor Randy Hall – We have life-safety issues and we don’t have an engineer’s stamp.
Bruce Pedersen – I think life-safety are all being addressed, and that’s what we’re working through on
this last set of plans. I probably can’t get the landscaping in this late in the season, but the interior stuff, if
I can get Dennis’s approval … It is literally weeks from being complete, with the go-ahead and the
resources put to it.
Mayor Randy Hall – I would feel uncomfortable supporting a non-conforming use to a non-conforming
building with this kind of history. I’d be a lot more interested in helping you, Bruce, if we were farther
along the way to completion.
Councilman Charles Conn – If we don’t approve this, we probably stretch it out for these neighbors,
because they’ll have to remove the overhang.
Councilman Curtis Kemp – Dennis, do you have a set of plans that shows what’s going on?
Building Official Dennis Keierleber – Not for the building as built. Last time I met with Bruce, I saw
floor plans for what was built. Now we’re looking for validation that the structure as built is okay and
complies with the Code, and has an engineer’s stamp that he takes responsibility for the structure as built.
The Planning Department also wants a cross-section they can view.
Bruce Pedersen – Dennis has a letter from Scott as the engineer on record.
Building Official Dennis Keierleber – We have a letter saying that he will be the engineer of record, not
a report saying that what was built …
Bruce Pedersen – Scott now has the pdfs to review so he can stamp them on the life-safety issues. I can
have the latest updated plans to the City by the end of the week.
Councilman Charles Conn – Let’s not approve this tonight, and encourage Bruce to get the
documentation squared away so the neighbors have confidence that this is going to get finished. We have
no precedent for providing an economic penalty, which is too bad, but we can certainly use this as an
incentive to get this finished up.
Mayor Randy Hall – Bruce, no more changes. It’s hard for me to understand the disconnect between the
plans that you submitted to the City and decisions that were made in the field. It’s really hard for me to
get over that. I don’t want to belabor this any more.
Councilman Charles Conn – We know the overhang issue and we’ve got the encroachment resolution in
front of us, so that’s not going to take a lot more time. But we need you to move along so the rest of this
can get completed.


                               November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting                   Page 7 of 14
Jake Peters – Did I just hear right that it has three kitchens … why do you need three kitchens?
Mayor Randy Hall – Are there three kitchens in there? Are we going to bootleg this? What’s going on?
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – There was concern from the neighbors that there were three
kitchens and three individual residences. I did an onsite inspection awhile ago, and made it clear to Bruce,
and he’s concurred, that he’s not permitted to have three independent kitchen facilities, and we will be
watching that closely. The plans obviously cannot show that, and we’ll do a walk-through to make sure
it’s not functioning that way.
Mayor Randy Hall – And, Dennis, you’re sure there’s no plumbing in the walls and stub-outs or gas that
would lead you to believe that there are extra fixtures that will be put in afterward?
Building Official Dennis Keierleber – There are three areas in this house that look like kitchens.
Ketchum’s Zoning Code defines a kitchen as having to have a stove. I can’t tell if each room is going to
have a range. One ―kitchen‖ could just be a wet bar.
Mayor Randy Hall – Bruce, you’ve been put on notice that everybody’s watching you. Let’s try to get
this done for everybody’s best interests.
Bruce Pedersen – So I have to bring plans and come back to another Council meeting to get approval of
the overhang before I can proceed?
Mayor Randy Hall – I think the overhang is the least of your problems right now.
Councilman Larry Helzel – And I think it should be the last.
Mayor Randy Hall – Absolutely the last. We can be a very friendly bunch if you deliver what we need
on time; but if you don’t, and we end up worried about other issues cropping up, we’re going to be very
difficult to deal with.
Councilman Charles Conn – To be clear, when you’ve got Mark and Dennis squared away, we’ll see
this again.

10. Uncollectable Parking Tickets-Dave Kassner
Mayor Randy Hall – Are we still working on the Police Department credit card?
City Administrator Gary Marks – I understand Sandy is working on it.
Ketchum Police Traffic and Parking Czar Dave Kastner – Unfortunately, due to our computer system,
there’s a lot of overlap between groups, but I’ve separated what I consider ―uncollectable parking tickets‖
into four basic groups:
• all license plates with single tickets from January 1, 2000 to January 1, 2006 - about $41,000 in parking
   tickets
• no Department of Motor Vehicle records, from 2000 through 2008 – about $44,000 in parking tickets.
   If there’s no DMV record, the license plate has probably expired and the vehicle sold.
• out-of-state license plates with single tickets from January 1, 2006 to January 1, 2008
• outstanding tickets on rental cars from January 1, 2000 through August 31, 2008
I don’t really know how to create a file on our computer system that will mark these as uncollectible, that
will still pull up a plate if there’s some new activity with it; but it looks like we’ve got $100,000 in
receivables that’s really probably not going to come in.
The biggest category is the no Department of Motor Vehicle records. We network with the State of Idaho,
and can check the DMV records ourselves. I think a lot of single tickets fall into this category. Of course,
the longer we let them go, the more difficult it is to collect them, but the vendor that we work with
suggests not purging records.
Since September, we’ve collected about $30,000 in unpaid parking tickets; and are sending out scoff-law
letters to those who have three outstanding tickets, one of which is at least 90 days overdue. But rental car
records only go back so far.
Our new policy is to send out monthly courtesy letters to people with outstanding tickets, and I think
we’ll get more money from this point forward from rental car people. We give offenders 90 days to pay


                             November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting                Page 8 of 14
up, and if they don’t, and we see that vehicle again, we tow it away. I would suspect there’s another
$25,000-$30,000 out there in our scoff-law list. But there’s a lot of people who only have two tickets, and
by the time we’ve waited 90 days, we’ve lost a number of people.
I’m thinking we can create a file for uncollectables and start putting these license plate numbers in, but I
want to make sure that I do everything above-board accounting-wise.
Councilman Charles Conn – So we’re looking for an accounting solution … to move these into an
uncollectible category so we can write off the receivables, since the out-of-state, rental cars and those
with no DMV records are most likely uncollectable.
Mayor Randy Hall – You’re saying there’s $41,000 owed in single tickets for a license plate, but they
may be some of the same tickets as the license plates with no DMV files.
Ketchum Police Sergeant Dave Kastner – Correct.
We run out-of-state license plates through Blaine County Dispatch.
Councilman Larry Helzel – One of the things we discussed at our retreat was getting a third-party
collection agency.
Ketchum Police Sergeant Dave Kastner – That’s a problem in Idaho, because tickets belong to the car,
not the driver, so that would be sending the vehicle to a collection agency.
What we currently do is impound vehicles, which is time consuming. I’ve talked to other cities about this,
and it’s a tough nut.
I think the best start is to clean up the accounts receivable to reflect what we really have in receivables. I
can take all the folders of parking tickets starting with 2006 and input each license plate only once into an
Uncollectable File and then take it from there.
Mayor Randy Hall – Gary, how should we handle this in the budget? Sounds like Dave has gotten
$30,000 and can maybe get another $10,000 or so from the old tickets, and has a new system he wants to
implement for more recent tickets, but he’s looking for some direction in how to handle the receivables
for those old tickets from an accounting standpoint. Maybe this should happen sometime in January or
February, which will give Dave some time to refine his plan.
City Administrator Gary Marks – I’ll work with Dave and Sandy and figure out how to do this and
then report back to you; and through this process, we can set a policy.
Councilman Larry Helzel – With small retail accounts, this kind of thing is always a two-step process.
You make a gross cut, based on a sensibility basis, then you go back and try your best on the old stuff for
four to six months, and then it is what it is.
Mayor Randy Hall – Dave, you’ve done a great job, and I’m grateful for the $30,000. I think we’ve got a
plan in place, and can move forward from here.

Ketchum Police Sergeant Dave Kastner – Still on the parking issue, we currently impound vehicles.
When we impound a vehicle, a police officer does an inventory of interior contents of the vehicle and
walks around the outside and photographs any damage, then a wrecker hauls the vehicle away and the
officer writes a report, including the photographs. All of this takes about an hour.
Other cities immobilize the vehicle with a boot. Once the media gets word of boots, and you boot a
couple of cars, a lot of people start paying back parking tickets. A boot costs about $500 and takes about
30 seconds to install on a car. If the vehicle isn’t picked up in eight or ten hours, it’s impounded. These
are used elsewhere in the County; but the last time I brought it up to Council, there was concern that
guests and tourists would be booted; but we would only boot those people on our scoff-law list with three
or more tickets, one of which was outstanding for more than 90 days.
Mayor Randy Hall – I think someone with three or more tickets is already scoffing.
Ketchum Police Sergeant Dave Kastner – It would be quicker if we didn’t worry about the 90 days.




                             November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting                Page 9 of 14
Mayor Randy Hall – We’re already lenient. The first ticket is just a warning; the second is $25, and the
third ticket jumps to $52. Let’s change the ordinance to three or more tickets and not bother with the 90
days.
Councilman Charles Conn – It’s a no-brainer.
Ketchum Police Sergeant Dave Kastner – I’ll work on some language for the ordinance.
My last thing is when people apply for a building permit in the downtown core, they can apply to pay $50
month for a parking space for staging. There’s a lot of work in the core that isn’t connected with a parking
permit. Maybe the City should consider charging a fee to use a parking space for a truck or trailer or
dumpster that’s more connected to the market value of the parking space, like $20/day, and this could be
handled through the Police Department instead of the Building Department.
Mayor Randy Hall – I think that’s a great idea.
Do we still have a traffic committee? Former Councilman Ron Parsons was on it.
Ketchum Police Sergeant Dave Kastner – The Traffic Committee meets the second Monday of every
month. We have representatives from P&Z, Street, Building, and Police, and it would be great if we had a
councilmember join us. We’re currently working on speed zones, some parking changes, and signage in a
lot of areas. People are always sending us ideas.
Councilman Curtis Kemp – I’ll do it.
Mayor Randy Hall – I’d like to add sign pollution. We’re spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on
undergrounding.
Councilman Charles Conn – I think we need to revisit parking in our downtown on a much more long-
term strategic plan. We can look at what Aspen has done, and turn it into a substantial revenue source
while fixing our parking issues.
Mayor Randy Hall – I agree with you, but I was trying to wait until the first of the year to get some of
these hotel entitlements out of the way so Staff had some time. It’s in our Downtown Master Plan, and I
think we need to revisit that. We also thought about bringing Aspen’s parking director Tim Ware in.
Ketchum Police Sergeant Dave Kastner – That would take care of your sign issues as well.

City Administrator Gary Marks left the meeting at this time.

11. Ordinance 1039 restating Ketchum Municipal Code Section 17.100, Pedestrian Access Overlay,
     to be retitled Warm Springs Base Area Overlay District.
     and
     Ordinance 1044 creating a new overlay zoning district, to be retitled Warm Springs Base Area
     Overlay Zoning District-1. Continuation of public hearing upon text amendments to the
     Chapter 17.100, Pedestrian Access Overlay District, to be re-titled Warm Springs Base Area
     Overlay District (WSBA), and upon the addition of an entirely new Overlay District, titled
     17.101 Warm Springs Base Area Overlay District-1 (WSBA-1). First Reading.
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – If you look on a Zoning District map, you’ll see that the Warm
Springs Base Area Overlay District is everything within the Warm Springs base area between Howard
and Picabo. The WSBA has a maximum height of five stories, except any building within 30 feet of
Howard Drive can only go up to four stories, with additional restrictions on the fourth floor.
The Warm Springs Base Area Overlay District-1 is everything in the Warm Springs base area between the
mountain and Picabo, and everything there is allowed to go to six stories; and there is a setback along
Warm Springs Creek.
These are the only two differences between the two overlay districts, and this is based on counsel of the
City Attorney at the time that we needed two zones for two different height limitations.
At the end of the last meeting, we had basically three very specific changes that the Council wanted made
for tonight’s meeting.


                             November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting              Page 10 of 14
• Changes in Use in both zoning districts – A general example has been added.
• The FAR Table – The Council recommended increasing the incentive for retail/restaurant use, and
  combined them into one category. The overall incentive has been increased from .02 FAR to .025 FAR
  per 100sf. It’s a small increase, but it is relatively significant.
• The Warm Springs Creek setback in the WSBA-1 was rewritten and we added a diagram. The setback
  has been altered, as recommended by Council, to be a height plane of 1.5 for every 1 foot of height ratio
  above 35 feet.
  You can have one building that follows that plane.
Mayor Randy Hall – I’ll open to public comment at this time.
There is no public comment, so I’ll close the public hearing.
Councilman Larry Helzel – I think Staff has done a fine job with this. It’s been a long process, and it’s
not perfect, but the City of Ketchum is not in the development business and all we can do is provide a
framework which hopefully will encourage some development. There are no guarantees in here, but I
think there is sufficient flexibility that our P&Z can look at a variety of eligible projects. I’m in favor of
adopting these ordinances.
Councilman Charles Conn – I think this is good work, and hope it’s enough to revitalize the area.
Councilman Curtis Kemp – I agree. I hope it happens.
Mayor Randy Hall – Does any Councilmember have any problems with waiving the three readings and
passing these ordinances tonight?
Councilmembers – No.
Councilman Charles Conn moved to waive the three readings of Ordinance Number 1039 and read
by title only. Motion seconded by Councilman Curtis Kemp, and passed unanimously.
Councilman Charles Conn moved to adopt Ordinance 1039 restating Ketchum Municipal Code
Section 17.100, Pedestrian Access Overlay, to be retitled Warm Springs Base Area Overlay District.
Motion seconded by Councilman Curtis Kemp. Roll call vote: Councilman Charles Conn yes,
Councilman Curtis Kemp yes, Councilman Larry Helzel yes. Motion passed unanimously.
Please see Ordinance Number 1039 on following page.

Councilman Curtis Kemp moved to waive the three readings of Ordinance Number 1044 and read
by title only. Motion seconded by Councilman Larry Helzel, and passed unanimously.
Councilman Curtis Kemp moved to adopt Ordinance 1044 creating a new overlay zoning district,
to be retitled Warm Springs Base Area Overlay Zoning District-1. Continuation of public hearing
upon text amendments to the Chapter 17.100, Pedestrian Access Overlay District, to be re-titled
Warm Springs Base Area Overlay District (WSBA), and upon the addition of an entirely new
Overlay District, titled 17.101 Warm Springs Base Area Overlay District-1 (WSBA-1). Motion
seconded by Councilman Larry Helzel. Roll call vote: Councilman Curtis Kemp yes, Councilman
Larry Helzel yes, Councilman Charles Conn yes. Motion passed unanimously.
Please see Ordinance Number 1044 on following page.

12. Consideration upon the application of TS NEW DEVELOPMENT, LLC for a conditional use
    permit (CUP) for a modification to Thunder Spring Planned Unit Development (PUD) with
    regard to Lot 21, Block 4, Saddle View Subdivision No. 3 and Large Blocks F1 and F2, Thunder
    Spring PUD Large Block Plat. The applicant is proposing to amend conditions of approval of
    the Thunder Spring PUD and meet requirements for community housing and non-profit office
    space. The applicant has made a proposal to be considered by the City Council. The proposal is
    to make a financial contribution to satisfy said requirements. (CANCELLED)




                             November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting               Page 11 of 14
13. Resolution 08-113 providing for execution of a right-of-way agreement between the City of
    Ketchum and Daniel and Anne Johnston, concerning the construction, installation and
    maintenance of improvement within a portion of Sage Road, City of Ketchum.
    Discussion on the application of Daniel Johnston for improvements located within the City’s
    right of way adjacent to 100 Sage Road.
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – This is a right-of-way encroachment application. They installed
snowmelt on their driveway within the right-of-way, and need a Right-of-way Encroachment Agreement,
which removes all responsibility from the city, and if the applicant has to remove it, they will pay for it.
The Street Department has inspected the driveway snowmelt and is fine with it. It will not pose any
problems or interfere with Sage Road.
Bruce Smith was present, representing the applicant.
Councilman Curtis Kemp moved to pass Resolution 08-113 providing for execution of a right-of-
way agreement between the City of Ketchum and Daniel and Anne Johnston, concerning the
construction, installation and maintenance of improvement within a portion of Sage Road, City of
Ketchum. Motion seconded by Councilman Larry Helzel, and passed unanimously.
Please see Resolution Number 08-113 on following page.

14. Consideration upon the preliminary plat of Block 41 Townhomes; Lots 3 and 4, Block 41,
     Ketchum Townsite, commonly know as 100 and 120 East Ave. The applicant wishes to
     subdivide the property into four townhouse sublots.
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – This is a preliminary plat for a four-townhouse lot subdivision. It
received preliminary plat approval from the P&Z in May, 2007, before they actually started construction.
The applicant is nearing completion on the first unit, which we’re calling Phase I, and would like to
construct the entire project in three phases. They would like to get final plat for Phase I relatively soon, so
we’ve added a condition that a phasing agreement be recorded with the final plat and approved through
the final plat prior to final plat signature of that first unit. That phasing agreement would outline the next
two phases of the project, and when they would be completed, etc.
Jack Rutherford, applicant – I’m here to answer any questions.
Councilman Larry Helzel – What is the reason for the phasing?
Jack Rutherford – Bank financing.
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – The applicant has cleaned up the site, and it will be kept up during
the phasing agreement.
Ketchum Community and Economic Development Director Lisa Horowitz – Did the ground source
heat pump come to fruition?
Jack Rutherford – We buried about 12,000 linear feet of pipe underground in a 20-foot deep trench.
Using that pipe, we get 50° water running through a ground source heat pump. We super insulated with
foam foil, which lowered the heat profile so the ground source heat pump is only about 50-60,000BTUs
and can heat the whole house. Right now, we’re not even running heat in the house and it’s staying warm.
I think this is the most heat-efficient project I’ve ever designed; and it’s a 97% reduction of CO2 vs. forced
air gas.
Councilman Larry Helzel – How does the cost compare?
Jack Rutherford – It’s an interesting equation. A ground source heat pump is expensive at about $8,000
a unit, and then another $15,000 putting the piping in, so we super insulated the building to the point
where we only needed one heat pump. You can get a pretty inexpensive forced air system, but a superior
grade forced air system would be competitive with the price of one heat pump and the pipe. We’ve put
pipe in the ground for two units, but are just activating one unit at this time.
Councilman Charles Conn – Could you bump the 50° up to about 65° by putting solar thermal panels on
the roof?



                              November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting               Page 12 of 14
Jack Rutherford – Yes, and I’ve looked into that option and I may do that on one of my next buildings.
The heat pump is like a little energy manager, and can use anything you put into it.
Councilman Curtis Kemp – How is the heat actually delivered to the house?
Jack Rutherford – The heat pump is a hybrid unit, so it provides for both radiant floor heating in the
winter and air conditioning in the summer, which is almost free, because you’re using 50° water to make
65° air.
We’ll set up a field trip.
I’ve talked to Stefanie and Mark about using ground source and solar for snowmelt. I have to give some
more thought to it, but it’s an interesting issue.
Councilman Curtis Kemp moved to approve preliminary plat of Block 41 Townhomes; Lots 3 and
4, Block 41, Ketchum Townsite, commonly know as 100 and 120 East Ave, subject to Conditions 1-5
as shown in the Staff Report dated November 3, 2008. Motion seconded by Councilman Larry
Helzel, and passed unanimously.

11. Resolution 08-110, a resolution of the City Council of the City of Ketchum, Idaho, authorizing
    the Mayor to execute a contract for services with Mountain Rides for $513,000 to provide
    multimodal public transportation services for the 2008-2009 fiscal year.
Mayor Randy Hall – This is a budgeted item.
Councilman Curtis Kemp moved to pass Resolution 08-110, a resolution of the City Council of the
City of Ketchum, Idaho, authorizing the Mayor to execute a contract for services with Mountain
Rides for $513,000 to provide multimodal public transportation services for the 2008-2009 fiscal
year. Motion seconded by Councilman Larry Helzel, and passed unanimously.
Please see Resolution Number 08-110 on following page.

12. Resolution 08-118, a resolution of the City Council of the City of Ketchum, Idaho accepting
    Change Order No. 3 for the 4th street heritage corridor phase II in the amount of $5,930 and
    authorizing the mayor to execute the change order.
Councilman Curtis Kemp – At some point, I’d like to ask our engineer why this wasn’t seen and
included in the drawings. I’ve already talked to them about those vertical curbs next to Sturtevants.
Councilman Larry Helzel – I agree.
Councilman Curtis Kemp moved to pass Resolution 08-118, a resolution of the City Council of the
City of Ketchum, Idaho accepting change order no. 3 for the 4th street heritage corridor phase II in
the amount of $5,930 and authorizing the mayor to execute the change order. Motion seconded by
Councilman Larry Helzel, and passed unanimously.
Please see Resolution Number 08-118 on following page.

13. Resolution 08-120, a resolution of the City Council of the City of Ketchum, Idaho, authorizing
    the Mayor to execute a contract with Sun Valley Events, Inc. in the amount of $25,000 to
    promote, organize, manage, coordinate and produce the 2009 Ketchum Wagon Days Event.
Mayor Randy Hall – This is a budgeted item. Heather Lamonica is the principal of Sun Valley Events.
Councilman Larry Helzel moved to pass Resolution 08-120, a resolution of the City Council of the
City of Ketchum, Idaho, authorizing the Mayor to execute a contract with Sun Valley Events, Inc.
in the amount of $25,000 to promote, organize, manage, coordinate and produce the 2009 Ketchum
Wagon Days Event. Motion seconded by Councilman Curtis Kemp, and passed unanimously.
Please see Resolution Number 08-120 on following page.

14. DISCUSSION ITEMS
Councilman Curtis Kemp – Mark, can you explain to me this notion of grandfathered buildings and
non-conforming buildings … What’s the percentage you can tear down? Do we need to look at that?


                           November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting            Page 13 of 14
Associate Planner Mark Goodman – That section of the Code talks about sideyard setbacks, etc., but
doesn’t talk about percentages. It’s not very specific.
City Attorney Stephanie Bonney – Yes, you need to look at it. There’s parts of it that don’t conform to
state law. We had it come up with Whiskey Jacques.
Ketchum Community and Economic Development Director Lisa Horowitz – We are now aware that
it needs work.

15. CONSENT CALENDAR
    a. Council Meeting Minutes - October 21, 2008 Special Site Visit Meeting; October 21, 2008
         Special Meeting
    b. Current Bills
    c. Summary of Payroll
    d. Consideration of the Final Plat applications of:
         i. Final Plat-Hourglass Townhomes
         ii. Final Plat-Stevenson
    e. Approval of the 2008-2009 Liquor, Beer & Wine License: See List.
    f. Revocation of Delinquent Non-Property Tax Permits
City Planner Stefanie Webster – Item d. is Final Plats, not draft Findings of Fact. We are thinking of
putting final plat approvals on the agenda if there are no problems with them.
Councilmen Curtis Kemp and Charles Conn – Do we actually spend $10,000 month on computer
maintenance? And I think that may be for just a two-week period.
Councilman Charles Conn – Some of these individual computer maintenance items … $2,435, $1,385,
$1,910 … for a single week. We discussed this during budgeting.
Mayor Randy Hall – Let’s approve this now and talk to Gary about it.
Councilman Curtis Kemp moved to approve the Consent Agenda, as amended by City Planner
Stefanie Webster. Motion seconded by Councilman Charles Conn, and passed unanimously.

16. EXECUTIVE SESSION
Councilman Curtis Kemp moved to go into Executive session at 7:29 p.m. to discuss personnel,
litigation and land acquisition pursuant to Idaho Code §§67-2345 1(a) (b), (c) and (f). Motion
seconded by Councilman Larry Helzel, and passed unanimously.

17. ADJOURNMENT
Councilman Curtis Kemp moved to adjourn at 8:01 p.m. Councilman Larry Helzel seconded the
motion, and it passed unanimously.




        ______________________
        Randy Hall
        Mayor

        ATTEST:


        __________________
        Sandra E. Cady, CMC
        City Clerk

                            November 3, 2008 Regular City Council Meeting             Page 14 of 14

				
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