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					Business901                                 Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems

  A Business Perspective on Engaging Customers,
  Creating Experiences and Building Communities
      Guest was Mike Dover, Co-author of WikiBrands




Related Podcast:
    Reinventing Your Company
              in a Customer-Driven Marketplace




                 Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                    Copyright Business901
Business901                                   Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
                      Mike Dover is Managing Partner of Socialstruct Advisory Group. As
                      Vice President, Research Operations, for New Paradigm (Moxie
                      Insight), he led the operations for research programs for the
                      bestselling books Wikinomics and Grown Up Digital. He also has
                      provided review support for more than a dozen other books.


                       The secret to connecting with consumers in a fragmented, chaotic
                       marketplace, then, lies in how businesses collaborate with
customers. WIKIBRANDS: Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven
Marketplace (McGraw-Hill; January 2011) by Sean Moffitt and Mike Dover builds on a
breakthrough, multimillion-dollar marketing research program initiated by Don Tapscott,
technology guru and author of Grown Up Digital (McGraw-Hill), to deliver a state-of-the-art
appraisal of the latest developments in customer engagement.

      Social Media. Brand Collaboration. Content aggregation. Microblogging. User-
generated content. And the list goes on… It’s been said that business is in the midst of the
customer-centric marketing revolution—a trend which points toward business treating
brands less like “property” and more like an extension of an organization’s values. The
upshot is this: Smart companies are finally figuring out how peoples’ desire to participate is
becoming a key driver of marketing success. But to be a winner in this environment,
businesses have to fill this need and at the same time compete for consumers’ increasingly
scarce time and shrinking attention spans. More complicated still, companies have to do all
of this while also earning consumers’ trust.

                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                      Copyright Business901
Business901                                   Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems

Joe Dager: Welcome everyone; this is Joe Dager, the host of the Business 901 podcast.
With me today is Mike Dover. Mike is the co-author of "Wiki Brands," and is the managing
partner of Socialstruct Advisory Group. Mike, I'm glad to have you on the show, and could
you give me a brief introduction to the book and about yourself?
Mike Dover: Great, thanks for the invite, Joe. So, the book is "WikiBrands," and the
subtitle is, "Reinventing Your Company in a Customer Driven Marketplace." And what we
really set out to do is to talk about how to use technology to improve the authenticity of
conversations that companies have with their customers.
And myself, I've been kicking around the business book game for a while; this is the 13th
book that I've worked on. The first one with my name on the front, but I ran the research
program behind "Wikinomics," by Don Tapscott and "Growing Up Digital."
Joe: You are very experienced in the book field?

Mike: The joke that I make, and it's sort of a metaphor, is I've spent about 10 years as
Frank Sinatra's band leader, and it's my first attempt, really, to move out on the front of
the stage. The downside to that metaphor, I was at another book launch and I told it, and
there was a woman who was really upset that I lied about being Frank Sinatra's band
leader.
Joe: Can you kind of define what you mean by WikiBrands?



                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                      Copyright Business901
Business901                                    Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
Mike: The word "wiki" came from the Hawaiian word for quick. But it's now come to mean
a collaborative project. Wikipedia is the best known example, an encyclopedia put together
by many people. The concept of Wikinomics is, to using mass collaboration to drive
business. So what we mean here is, it's a brand that is helped developed and it's helped
supported and extended by the community. It's no longer somebody up in the top of a
tower, saying, "OK, let's tell people what our brand will be." They now have a lot of say
into what it'll actually become.
Joe: The customer really determines your brand?
Mike: That's right. And you can't lie anymore, because the bloggers here are very good at
sniffing things out. They're very good at looking for authenticity, and inauthenticity.
Joe: One of the things that you talked about in there is the engaging a customer and
creating the different experiences. I think those are social media buzzwords, a little bit.
What's separates your book from all the other social media books out there?
Mike: Well, I would say that we look at a broader sense of technologies that are available,
rather than just the social media platforms. Our book is not telling people to throw the
baby out with the bathwater. I mean, there's a lot of really good discipline in marketing
and in management that needs to be tweaked, but not completely redone. A lot of what we
talk about in the book looks at things like customer forums and listening closely at the
conversation is going on in there. Finding out what your customers really want by the
problem solving they're doing in those.


                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                       Copyright Business901
Business901                                   Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
So, it's certainly not, we're not advising people to say, hey, throw up a Facebook page and
check out social media. Nor are we telling people the most important metrics are things
like, how many people do you have liking your Facebook?
Joe: You're laying out somewhat of a blueprint, as I think that it says somewhere in the
book, of how to do this, and how to make these Facebook pages and Twitter pages, really
pages that engage and that are user generated.
Mike: Yes. Our goal is that the reader, at the end of this, will be able to have a 90 day
plan and an 18 month plan, at how to go and really change how to go about business. I
was mentioning before, it's not really about just setting up social media. It's an important
part, but, you know, not the only thing we're looking at.
Joe: So what's the other part besides social media?
Mike: There are a lot of other technologies that we're looking at here. We did a lot of
studying on user groups in, for software. For example, SAP has a good system set up,
Turbo Tax, salesforce.com and what these have are customer forums where people go in to
help solve each other's problems. All three of those do a wonderful job of making a
community that encourages people that don't even work at those companies to go in and
be an important part of it. We interviewed this one guy, and he never did give us his last
name even when we sent him a copy of the book. He just told us his name was Howard,
and that he was a retired CPA.



                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                      Copyright Business901
Business901                                    Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
He was very active in the Turbo Tax, which is owned by Intuit, in their forum. What he did,
because he had made over 40,000 entries in there, helping people with their tax problems.
The reason he did it was not for fame, he told us, we asked him, I said, "What encouraged
you to do this?" He said he really liked solving problems. He liked helping people,
especially when they were right and the IRS was wrong. It also kept him on top of the tax
code, and learning things that have happened since he retired. Since when he was working
as a CPA, most of his clients were wealthy. So, the people he's helping now are dealing
with different areas of the tax code, like, on earned income credits that he had never
actually worked on before.
Joe: Now you talked about, a couple times this problem solving type of attitude to have.
Do you think that's an important part of marketing now?
Mike: Well, it's an important part of business, absolutely. Where it comes to marketing,
there's a lot of it improves after sale satisfaction, and also research and development. So
if, for example, you're following the work that people like Howard are doing, if all the
questions are about a particular module in your tax software, you say, "Hey, we really
need to fix that up in the next version, because people are clearly confused by it." Howard
also tells us that it's very rare that he finds an actual mistake in the Turbo Tax program,
but when he does, they fix it immediately.

Joe: You're discussing using the problem solving with the after sales. But one of my
things that I always resist a little bit when I see this on someone's literature or something,
that they're always providing a solution. And it's like, how do you know what the solution
is, if you don't know what my problem is? You really need to investigate my problem, to
                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                       Copyright Business901
Business901                                  Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
have a way of marketing and selling to me that really discusses problems. Can you do
that? I mean online, is kind of what you're talking about doing here a little bit.
Mike: You also can use many brains that don't actually work for you. A question I usually
ask what I'm doing research interviewee is this. Usually the last one, I'll say, what has
surprised you about how technologies changed your business. Sometimes you get really
good answers to that. A lot of times people are saying, "They are surprised by how many
people want to volunteer to help their company."
Best Buy, for example, has Twelpforce, it's a twitter account. Where people say, hey, I'm
having trouble setting up, having trouble with the interface. What really surprised Best Buy
is the amount of people that follow that, that have nothing to do with Best Buy. They are
just people that enjoy solving problems.
When you ask, people who tend to be VP of marketing of a big company, they're motivated
by things like money and status and fancy title and that sort of thing. These people are
surprised with how many the brains are available. They're surprised at what motivates
people to participate.
Joe: How do you start in something like that? I see companies join social media. They do
a company blog and it's really just a form of advertising. Then they go jump on Facebook
and make a fan page and that's difficult to create, interaction on a Facebook page
sometimes. I see the best use on Twitter, as far as going back and forth on the different
subject. If a company is doing that, which few of them are doing it effectively, I don't
think.

                  Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                     Copyright Business901
Business901                                   Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
But it seems like they've just taken their out bound marketing messages and put it into the
social media climate. Does the book and do you have any recommendations on how to get
started in doing it differently?
Mike: Well I would say the first thing to do is really map out your whole business, so not
just the marketing side. Not just your aftercare service but really everything including HR,
including internal training and development. And finding out, so once you have that all
mapped out, you then start looking at each area. How can we use technology to improve
this? So when it comes into HR, are you monitoring your employee's networks properly to
encourage and are setting up processes that will encourage them to actually use their
networks to help people.
You can also find at that point, if you set up a really nice system and nobody wants to
recommend the company to their associates that uncovers a bigger problem. But what you
are alluded to before can be a trap that people fall into with saying, "OK. I'm going to take
everything we do right now and put it on Facebook." Check a box and say, "OK, we're set
up now."
That's not the way to go. People won't engage on that. It's adding very little to it and the
audience can tell that you're not really putting a lot of time into it.

In a lot of cases the best corporate Twitter accounts really show the sort of personality of
the company. Zappos is a good example of that. People really get the sense of, "Hey, this
is a great company I want to work with." They have personality to them. I can really sense
that they care about it. It's entertaining enough to actually go and follow.

                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                      Copyright Business901
Business901                                    Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
Joe: How can, let's say like a service department, react? Because a lot of times I see a
service department or someone that puts in a problem type of company site and this is
what I think scares organizations a little bit. Is that then they get all these people blasting
at them with all the problems, or this is not going right. They take these things into
account, rather than it's just like they’re out there monitoring their brand, That's what
everybody thinks I think about Twitter is that you monitor your brand and you pick up
problems as you see it.
But when you put your own site and your own hash tag up there and you start responding
to people, don't you just get more people using it as a vehicle to complain to you?
Mike: Well again, there is some bravery involved. I think Dell Idea Storm is a great
example of that. Dell really ran into some serious problems with customer service before
Michael Dell came back in to run the company. He put up idea force or Idea Storm, where
people can go in and talk about their experience with Dell. In a lot of cases, they were not
good experiences. So there is some bravery of putting that up and letting people see it.
But there's a good upside in coming, that you're getting great ideas from it. You're also
finding out where deficiencies are in your organization.
Specifically to what you brought up with Twitter, you need some bravery as well because
there's going to be somebody dirty laundry out there. But really I think the sense on
Twitter is people appreciate honesty and they appreciate feedback.




                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                       Copyright Business901
Business901                                   Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
So there may be something in the company saying, "Well, sorry. You've dropped your
iPhone in a puddle and it's ruined. It doesn't matter how many times you blast on Twitter,
you're not supposed to be putting these things in water. It's broken."
But on the other hand, if people say hey, I've left three messages for your organization
and haven't heard back from them. Twitter is a good sense, is a good solution to that.
Because you post just as publicly as the complaint, here's how you can get in touch with
me directly or here's a public solution to your problem.
Joe: Now do you think that brands look at and corporations look at, let's say on the
Twitter thing, if I posted because I have 7000 followers or something and some guy that's
got 100, are they going to react differently?
Mike: Really, they should. I think most, most companies, if they just monitor their
names, they would come up, they would come up in sort of the same frequency. I think it
would be smart for them to say, "Hey, you know, this complaint comes from someone who
is a little bit more influential. Maybe we should treat it, treat it more urgently or put it
higher up on the triage."
Joe: I always wondered if I carried more weight when I got mad and type something in,
then the other guy.
Mike: Yeah, probably. I would say that, once it's out there, people are searching for the
hash tag or just the name. At that point it doesn't matter how many followers they had,
but if they're looking at, you know, who to put out in front, they can say, well, you know,

                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                      Copyright Business901
Business901                                   Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
Joe's got thousands. And you may get bumped up to the top of the line, until they find
somebody with 50,000 followers.
Joe: Is it a book that you consider an easy read, is it something that's, is it more of a
workbook? Or is it just a book that kind of, you can sit down and read cover to cover?

Mike: Well, we hope that it is. We really tried to have an interesting narrative and there's
some humor in it, there's some levity. You should be able to read it in a plane. We had
really good coverage in the Canadian airport bookstores, which I'm pleased about. I'll tell
you about that in a sec, but. It's also very well researched, we think. So we talked to
hundreds of people, and we based it on a large project that we did as part of a Tapscott
theme. There's more than 400 end notes in it, there's really a, it's a strong research
backed book. But we didn't want it to be reading like a textbook.
Joe: I thought that, too. You talk about branding a lot, and that's been a big buzzword in
the last 10, 15 years in marketing. Is branding so important to a company?
Mike: Well, it is. I think that it's, the image of the company and, in a lot of cases that
was, it makes you stand up above the others. And a lot of industries, as you know, are
being pushed into commoditization, and getting down to competing on price. Having a
strong brand is one of the best defenses against that. Both Sean and I worked at P&G for a
while. If we ever said the brand was dead, they would probably strip our alumni credentials
from us.



                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                      Copyright Business901
Business901                                   Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
Joe: You touched upon a perfect point that products are, they're commoditized, and
they’re practically commoditized overnight. I go back to, and I saw he was one of the
people that gave a recommendation to your book was Joseph Pine. I go back to his work in
The Experience Economy, when he talks about the knowledge, and as the brand develops,
the knowledge of the company becomes the most important part of it, even over the
product, and that's what people pay for, and that's the strength of branding. I think that
fits very well into the climate today.
Mike: Yes, and we're big fans of Joe. He worked on one of these research projects with us
as well. He's best known for his book, "The Experience Economy." I think my favorite book
of his deals with customer authenticity. And the real key to that is getting into saying, it's
not what you say it is, it's what your brand actually is. If the marketplace reads it, or
interprets it differently than what you want them to, they're right. You need to make
adjustments based on that.
Joe: Since I have a Lean and Six Sigma background and we talk about words like CTQ in
the marketplace and the critical to quality issues of a customer. People don't seem to
address them. What's important, the key issues that are important to the customer a lot,
and I think social media's a great avenue to bring them out.
Mike: Well, it's definitely what the marketplace thinks about it. They are very good at
sniffing out, if you're trying to say something that isn't true. The term that we use, we
didn't invent the term, but, a fake grassroots program is called Astroturf. If you try to do
something that makes it look like it's the grassroots and it's not, then you're worse off not
doing something in the first place. Sony ran into that one time, when they were going from
                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                      Copyright Business901
Business901                                   Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
town to town and putting up, sort of, faux graffiti and street tagging. The people
immediately found out that it was not, it was a company doing that, so they went around
and had some unkind responses to that, including calling the company, phone.
Joe: I guess another question I have for you, can you measure any of this stuff? Or is this
stuff just, you've got to take it for granted that it's working?

Mike: Measurement is key. Both Sean and I come from fairly long careers, we're both in
our 40s, so we've certainly been in situations where you say, "The theory sounds good, but
show me some numbers." We have a, there's an entire section in the book about metrics.
It comes down to a couple different areas. So, somebody comes in and says, "What's going
to be my ROI, on putting technology in?" You really need to look closely at, and measure
that.
So let's look, for example, if there's a complicated sale cycle, maybe somebody buying a
car. There are eight steps towards them actually making the purchase, and then another
four or five steps after they make the purchase. You can look at having, you know, wiki
branding being part of that is, could impact a lot of different areas.
So let's say that somebody goes on to the customer forums to find out what kind of car,
and looked at Yelp.com, and looked at online Blue Book. They do a lot of their research.
Then they go into the dealership and buy it, sort of the traditional way. You need to add, or
proportion some of those sales to what was going online. So even if it's pushing somebody
from one step of the sales process to another, that's one main area of looking at financial
return.

                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                      Copyright Business901
Business901                                   Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
We could also look at things like, you know, Dell computers again, have sold a lot of
revenue, just based right off of their Dell direct Twitter sales.
So, that's one area. Another one to look at is, how much is your reach improving? And the
key there, it's stuff like click throughs is not the most important, how many people like
your Facebook page is not that important. But it's about how much are people actually
engaging on it.
So if you're running say a contest, or you're running customer polls and think like, "How
many people are going to participate on that?" There's another big area for it.
Still another bucket is how much is your R and D and innovations approve it? So if by
listening closely to their customers and this is similar to what I was talking about before in
the software company and the development forums, you can more precisely meet the
demand of your customers because you provide them with exactly what they're looking for.
Dell idea storm, that's when I found that people are really looking for a Linux based
computer. So metrics can come in from that would be things like reduced inventory
because you're meeting the needs closer.
Joe: So you can actually measure these engagements?
Mike: Absolutely. We're business people and we work for serious business people, so
we've thought about objections to it and we addressed those in there. Hopefully as part of
the plan somebody has, after reading this book, they would be able to tell. We put lots and
lots of different metrics in there, I could be measuring all of them but you'd say for

                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                      Copyright Business901
Business901                                    Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
somebody's particular dashboard, what are the top five or six we need to use to make sure
that we'll get our money's worth from those. Because it's not free if you're putting together
a full time equivalent or a multiple into there you need to justify how their salary and
benefits money is being spent, plus the opportunity cost of them not doing what was their
job previously.
Joe: What I envision is this war room type of situation that I could take the book and
make my own social media war room up there for marketing and for sales and other areas.
I could put it up there and put these things up here and visualize it really well.
Mike: Well we hope so and as an author there's nothing better than seeing somebody
read your book, highlighter one hand, putting a bunch of post, its and a lot times a really
well used book that is the most rewarding.
Joe: Can a small business do this? I mean, we talk about Dell and others, but is this really
applicable to a small business?
Mike: Yes, absolutely! Let's look at an individual boutique hotel. They can do tremendous
work on this. For example, if they're active in a website like Trip Adviser. So for your
listeners that don't know Trip Adviser it's basically a wading site for tourism. The hotel that
I'm staying at when I'm here in New York it's covered... it's actually featured as Roger
Smith hotel. They say right on the bottom of the bill on that, please give us a review on
Trip Adviser. So companies if they go on there and they properly management it, but
improperly management would be going on making fake reviews or making bad reviews
about your customers, or your competitors.

                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                       Copyright Business901
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Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
They're getting very good at finding those and taking them off. But let's say you that you
went to look at a hotel and it's mostly five stars out of five but three people gave it a one
or two out of five. You may want to go look at that and if the management has responded
to those you'd be more likely to say, "All right, well that makes sense."
Maybe the person was unreasonable that made that point. Or maybe the complaint that
was a benefit for you, for example, if they wanted to go to a hotel for a romantic weekend
and somebody gave it a low rating because there's nothing for their kids to do there. I'm
going to think, "That's great." I don't want a bunch of noisy kids in the pool when I'm down
on it. So finding out what the most important sites are, the most important technologies
for industry and spending time on it. You can get really good bang for your buck.
Joe: So you're saying that a small business can do these things and that they can be very
active and use it to their benefits?
Mike: Yes. We know of another tourism example, it's a high end cycling tour. They used
to advertise through like "Outdoor Life" and those sorts of magazines. Now all of their
advertising is done just on Facebook, because people opt into it so that only people seeing
these things, all right? They just have a Facebook fan page. They used to just do their
rides in a few geographical areas and then somebody on the Facebook page said, "Hey,
why don't you do something through Tusket and it would be wonderful if you did a cycling
tour through Tusket." So they said, "All right, we'll just try it out."




                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                      Copyright Business901
Business901                                    Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
It cost them nothing to put it up saying, "Here's what we're thinking of doing. Here's a
sample itinerary." And it was sold out. So it was pure revenue that came out from it,
they're meeting customer needs just by listening. And the variable cost of that was zero.
Joe: The gist of what you're saying is that the real important part of going to social media
and inserting all these different things up is your ability to put time into your schedule to
respond, because the response is what it's all about.
Mike: That's absolutely right. If you giving people the opportunity to speak to you and
you're clearly you are not listening, then you're worse off than if you'd done nothing at all.
Joe: Now, when I read WikiBrands, I find that you challenge some different things, like
the four P's, you've mentioned the four E's. Could you just touch upon the four E's?
Mike: Sure. The four P's I think everybody or all of us anyways that learned business
talked to you about so the person, place, promotion and price from, as I recall he's Brian
Fettestona, and he was at Ogleby One, and he compared what marketing used to be to
what marketing is now is dealing with... arguing with a five year old and arguing with an
18 year old. A five year old they may kick and scream eventually they're going to do what
you want. But with an 18 year old you just more advise them where to go.
Getting into the four E's, the first one we have is experience. We were trying to move far
beyond the transaction. You want to get into things that are like product activation,
socialization of a purchase and really focus in on your after sales service so the entire


                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
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Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
experience of dealing with it becomes important. The second E is every place versus just
place. So it's no longer talking about just an in store experience.
Going back to the auto example we had earlier, if at any stage along the way somebody
was stymied and couldn't find information, let's say that we went to the review site and
every car there is listed there except yours you might be eliminated. Or if your car is listed,
it gets a very poor rating it might be eliminated from that as well. It could be at any sort of
stage along the way, an opportunity for you to be picked up.
The third you go is for exchange, and that talks about the compliment to pricing. It's
talking about things like dynamic pricing and how much is a umbrella worth on a dry day
versus a rainy day? We'll be talking about how hotel prices change based on a lot of
different characterization. Marketers are saying or asking people how much do they need
to give in order for them to get the business they want.
It's not just changing money back and forth, maybe it's saying I'm willing to pay more if I
could have something more customized or if I could get a shorter payment terms, that sort
of thing. The fourth you use is evangelist, and that's where you're really getting people to
become part of your organization and to be a supporter of yours. If there's some sort of
fight that happens in online they're going to go and respond faster and more fervently than
you'd be able to do on your own.
Joe: That's like you develop that relationship that you have with a cousin or your brother.
You may fight all the time at home but if there's a fight at school he walks over and helps
you out.

                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                       Copyright Business901
Business901                                   Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
Mike: Right. You see that as well, I mean if you were responding to a customer complaint
it's harder to do that. You're bound by more rules and how to be respectful and that sort of
thing than one of your evangelist maybe. So they might really go and kick up a fight for it
where there is only so much you can do.
Joe: I find that there's so much content out there anymore about different companies or
different products and things that it's really hard to distinguish what to read, what to look
at, what to believe. I think we go back to conversation, we're more likely to ask a question
on a Wiki or Twitter or Facebook and get an answer there to determine our buying, then
we are to believe any type of literature is out there. Is that what you found in your
research?
Mike: Yes, but it's also asynchronous. You can ask a question at two in the morning and
either get responses from it, or you may go into one these sites like eHow that you could
ask, "Hey, what's the best way to set up a charcoal grill?" You're getting responses to this
stuff you've never seen before. Pretty much let's say that you're working on the computer
and there's a strange error comment, see x000053. You don't have any idea what this
means. Just cut and paste that into one of these customer support forms and someone
else would have had that same problem you'd get a response to it right away. We're
spoiled because there's way more information available. It wasn't that long ago where you
get to wait until the next morning for a business to open up again and then all the trouble
of actually going through that organization and finding out somebody that can answer your
question.


                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
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Business901                                    Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
Joe: I think we'd rather do that sometimes than sit there and go through the service
department. We would rather cut and paste and find it on our own. In doing so we're going
to trust someone else's judgment and be influenced by someone that's possibly not even
within the company.
Mike: Yes. And a lot of cases you would be. Amazon.com is a great example of that. Look
how powerful the reviewers are on Amazon.com. We interviewed one of them for the book
as well and he thinks that it's an important part of his mission in life is to guide people
towards the best book. If you talk about how those people are motivated, it's not for
money. They're motivated for things like prestige and getting a badge since they're their
top 100 Amazon reviewer. Something else Amazon is good at is the collaborative filtering,
so if you like this product you'll probably like this one. I personally find that very helpful.
Joe: I think Amazon is really a model for a lot of people who are following and just a
leader in the industry. I wonder if they will go off line? How are they going to ever
expand?" Because there's a certain limit to what you can do online?
Mike: Well, I'm not sure whether it makes sense for them to expand offline. I think their
greatest opportunity for expansion is horizontal and get more and more products. They
hate it if you or I refer to them as an online bookstore because there are so many other
things they already sell. I think one of the reasons their stock is so high and their stock is I
think at an all-time high. It's generally within two percent of its all time high, so it's far
beyond where it was even in the dot context and it's not because of the sales. It's because
they have web services around it but other people can sell through Amazon. I don't know if
you buy much on eBay, I don't anymore.
                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
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Joe: I hardly even look at eBay anymore. The first place I go on online to just about buy
anything is Amazon.
Mike: Yes. Probably one of the reasons is you're much more confident you're not going to
get ripped off. When I use to buy a lot things on eBay, I just started thinking, "All right
there's a 10 percent chance that this thing won't show up or a five percent chance but
that's just part of the deal of working with this." Whereas, with Amazon I am 100 percent
sure that it will either show up or I'll be taken care of if something goes astray because
they vouch for the people that are selling on the platform.
Joe: Now you also discuss nine elements of successfully building and managing a wiki
brand. Could you just touch up on them?
Mike: The first one is really how the role of the CMO is changing, the Chief Marketing
Officer. That gets into moving again from the four P's, this one is C's. So conviction,
collaboration, and creativity, and a lot of that is coming into properly building the brand,
monitoring and responding, tell the community it's developing. It's like when it's focusing
on the people. A lot of times when people in companies run into trouble with technology
it's because they're relying too much on the tech and not enough of putting the right
people beside this. Now this gets into the third area, is looking at customer focused
marketing skills. So you need to make sure that whoever is in charge of the community is
not just good at the tech part of it, not just clever at doing tweets.
They're really good at listening and responding and ideally communicate in a lot of
different mediums including picking up the phone if it's required and bringing in diplomatic

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Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
skills if required. So the fourth one is source and money allocation and that is figuring out
how to properly fund these things. We talked a little bit earlier about putting the proper
metrics behind it. And to get the ROI returning to it you need to put the right amount of
budgets in towards it.
The fifth one is reinventing the agency. So there're still roles to be played in for having
professional marketing people involved. Look at YouTube, and YouTube is a very exciting
new way of video to be displayed or some other point where somebody is go and pay
$12.00 just to sit in a movie theater and watch a YouTube. You still need to have the
professionals in place. The sixth one you're looking at partnership building, so a lot of
where the customer's ideas and marketing are coming from not just your consumers but
also solution providers, different suppliers that you have available. Seventh one would be
looking at video. When we talked about the different languages of communication, one of
them is communicating through video. More and more it's a great way of telling a story.
So making sure that your story is available and if you have a video then you make sure it
works on multiple devices. You must make sure that it works on a mobile phone because
more and more people are going to be interacting with you on that. It's also important to
be looking at privacy.
So there's a double edge to that. If you have tons of great granular information on your
consumer you can provide a better response to them. But you also don't want to get to a
point where they're saying, "Wow. This guy knows too much about me and it's getting a
little bit creepy." Some people don't like companies having any information about them
even if it means it can serve them better.
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The ninth way is really looking at influencers. Influencers are the people in your market
that have the greatest clout. They're good at communicating; they may have the largest
more vibrant social networks, so making sure they're on board is really a key to
succeeding.
Joe: I think that's a great list. The one thing that I guess you touched upon just a little bit
that I think that companies are starting to think about more is the risk aspect of social
media. Can you just touch upon that a little bit for me?
Mike: Very important point, and I think that's partly why the public sector and regulated
industries and banking are a little bit slower to embrace this because the risk rewards
threshold is so high. Let's say for example T&G leaked some consumer data that would be
embarrassing for them. But it wouldn't be nearly as bad as if CitiBank... somebody left a
laptop behind in a cab that had lots of peoples' financial information, or really, anything in
the government having that information leaked. You need to manage risk carefully. You
need to be smart about doing these things. We have a whole chapter there on rules and
part of that deals with what rules you have for your people to communicate on social
media? The simple rule is don't put anything up there that you wouldn't want on the front
page of the Wall Street Journal.
Don't talk about customer information. Don't talk about financial data and that sort of
thing. So with all these people communicating it does provide a different problem that
we've had before. So a lot of it is really good training and some trial and error but there
will be some bumps along the way.


                   Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
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Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
Joe: Would you like to mention anything about the book that maybe I didn't ask?
Mike: Well one thing that's really important is for your listeners to join us at the website
which is just wiki-brands.com, and for example, a lot of times in the book we mention a
video which can't appear in the book, and all of those are listed up on the website. There
are also opportunities for people to get involved either as an ambassador of the book if you
want to do just blogging on the book or just writing comments.
Joe: I want to thank you very much for the appearance. I find the book very fascinating
and I have to mention you packed a lot of information into 300 pages.
Mike: I appreciate that. Good! Well thank you very much for the invite.




                  Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                     Copyright Business901
Business901                                           Podcast Transcription
Implementing Lean Marketing Systems
                                                                                             Joseph T. Dager
                                                                             Lean Six Sigma Black Belt
                                                                Ph: 260-438-0411 Fax: 260-818-2022
                                                                        Email: jtdager@business901.com
                                                               Web/Blog: http://www.business901.com
                                                                                     Twitter: @business901
                          What others say: In the past 20 years, Joe and I have collaborated on many
                          difficult issues. Joe's ability to combine his expertise with "out of the box"
                          thinking is unsurpassed. He has always delivered quickly, cost effectively and
                          with ingenuity. A brilliant mind that is always a pleasure to work with." James R.

Joe Dager is President of Business901, a progressive company providing direction in areas such as Lean
Marketing, Product Marketing, Product Launches and Re-Launches. As a Lean Six Sigma Black
Belt, Business901 provides and implements marketing, project and performance planning methodologies
in small businesses. The simplicity of a single flexible model will create clarity for your staff and as a result
better execution. My goal is to allow you spend your time on the need versus the plan.

An example of how we may work: Business901 could start with a consulting style utilizing an individual
from your organization or a virtual assistance that is well versed in our principles. We have capabilities
to plug virtually any marketing function into your process immediately. As proficiencies develop,
Business901 moves into a coach’s role supporting the process as needed. The goal of implementing a
system is that the processes will become a habit and not an event.

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                       Reinventing Your Company in a Customer-Driven Marketplace
                                              Copyright Business901

				
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Description: A Business Perspective on Engaging Customers, Creating Experiences and Building Communities with Mike Dover, Co-author of WikiBrands - This is a transcription of a Business901 Podcast