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Snyder - + Pete--Snyder--(pe235f HY fa07 14662 psnyder

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					June 1, 2008
19:57: Jeremy Dorse: Unit 1
19:57: Jeremy Dorse: so far
19:57: Peter Snyder(Ins): Did you disconnect the "pop-ups"?
19:58: Jeremy Dorse: Yes...and I have powerpoint
19:58: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K. I will look into this and try to figure out the problem.
19:58: Jeremy Dorse: Let's see if anyone else has problems
19:58: Jeremy Dorse: I could be the enigma
19:58: Peter Snyder(Ins): Do you have a Mac?
19:59: Jeremy Dorse: No..I have a brand new laptop Dell xps
19:59: Jeremy Dorse: fully loaded with all the goodies
19:59: Peter Snyder(Ins): Well, I'm not certain so I'll have to look into it.....you can open
the other units?
20:00: Jeremy Dorse: one minute I will try opening other programs
20:01: Peter Snyder(Ins): A lso, maybe you have a newer version of powerpoint which
makes this access more difficult?
20:01: Jeremy Dorse: I see unit 4 loading....I don't know if it is my wireless connection and it
takes a while
20:02: Jeremy Dorse: I have my first aid redcross book from 92...I know things have
changed a bit....seeing how my math book was 160 bucks I'm trying to wing it!
20:02: Jeremy Dorse: unit 4 loaded
20:02: Jeremy Dorse: so it might just be my connection
20:04: Peter Snyder(Ins): o.k. keep trying
20:04: Jeremy Dorse: Any particular unit I should have open before we start
20:04: Peter Snyder(Ins): don't need any open, necessarily
20:06: Peter Snyder(Ins): we'll wait a few minutes then get started.
20:06: Jeremy Dorse: sounds good
20:07: Peter Snyder(Ins): did you get your PIN in the 900 lab on Thursday?
20:08: Jeremy Dorse: Yes....I was able to show the instructor how to change it online!
20:08: Peter Snyder(Ins): how is that?
20:08: Lewis Alva has entered the room.
20:08: Jeremy Dorse: I will send you the steps...
20:08: Jeremy Dorse: in an email
20:08: Peter Snyder(Ins): hi Lewis!
20:08: Lewis Alva: Hello
20:09: Peter Snyder(Ins): we'll wait a couple of minutes B4 we start....any questions?
20:10: Jeremy Dorse: What is the meaning of life?
20:10: Jeremy Dorse: sorry...couldn't help it
20:10: Lewis Alva: This is about chapters 1-5, correct?
20:11: Peter Snyder(Ins): As an fyi on Thursday we will start right away with practical work
on the mannikins.....yes, Lewis you are correct...Jeremy must have taken a fall to the head.
20:11: Justine Holguin has entered the room.
20:11: Peter Snyder(Ins): hi Justine
20:11: Justine Holguin: Hello!
20:11: Jeremy Dorse: Yes I have an abrasion and class 2 sunburn
20:11: Justine Holguin: Ouch...
20:12: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K. I'm going to violate the first rule of teaching and that is
TEACHING TO THE TEST.
20:12: Lewis Alva: I didn't know there were rules of teaching...
20:12: Peter Snyder(Ins): First, let's start with some general guidelines about
C.P.R.....which is an acronym for what?
20:13: Lewis Alva: Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation
20:13: Caitlin Schoensiegel has entered the room.
20:13: Jeremy Dorse: nice spelling....
20:13: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes Lewis! and when we prioritize how to check a victim by listing
A...B....C... what does this acronym stand for?
20:13: Jeremy Dorse: I meant as awesome
20:14: Jeremy Dorse: Airway
20:14: Peter Snyder(Ins): hi Caitlin.
20:14: Caitlin Schoensiegel: hello sorry i'm late!
20:14: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes, now B and C?
20:14: Jeremy Dorse: I don't want to be an over achiever...
20:14: Justine Holguin: Breathing
20:14: Peter Snyder(Ins): and C?
20:15: Justine Holguin: Circulation... sorry i went for the over achiever status
20:15: Jeremy Dorse: well done
20:15: Peter Snyder(Ins): All right, the "C" has become a recent focus because the RATIO of
compressions (i.e. heart beats) to ventilations (i.e. breaths) is now?
20:16: Jeremy Dorse: 30:2
20:16: Jeremy Dorse: I know it was 15:2
20:16: Jeremy Dorse: before
20:17: Peter Snyder(Ins): good Jeremy.....so the emphasis is on TRYING to get the heart
going - because the chances of bring a cardiac arrest victim around, without an Defibrillator is?
20:18: Jeremy Dorse: 1 in 20
20:18: Jeremy Dorse: ?
20:18: Jeremy Dorse: Just shows I do need to buy the book...
20:18: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, they are not very good.....1 in 10 and with an AED this goes
up to?
20:19: Jeremy Dorse: Your slide says dramatically!
20:20: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, it about doubles the chances of recovery....i.e. 20%
20:20: Justine Holguin has left the room.
20:20: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K. so how do we establish a cardiac arrest victim and what if
(s)he has some other problem?
20:20: Justine Holguin has entered the room.
20:22: Peter Snyder(Ins): All right, for the test you will need to know what a primary survey
is versus a secondary survey of a victim.
20:22: Jeremy Dorse: 4 signals of a heart attack
20:22: Peter Snyder(Ins): which are?
20:22: Caitlin Schoensiegel: pressure in your heart, numbness on left side of the body
20:23: Jeremy Dorse: Persistent chest pain!
20:23: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes, anything else?
20:23: Jeremy Dorse: Difficulty Breathing
20:23: Lewis Alva has left the room.
20:23: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes!! o.k. now what if the victim has neither of these signs?
20:23: Lewis Alva has entered the room.
20:23: Kelly Wilson has entered the room.
20:24: Peter Snyder(Ins): hi Kelly
20:24: Kelly Wilson: I finally got in the chat room hello mr snyder
20:24: Jeremy Dorse: Also change in pulse rate and skin appearance
20:24: Justine Holguin: They should still be checked out anyways... right? Because every
second makes a difference is it is a heart attack
20:25: Kelly Wilson: so what did I miss
20:25: Peter Snyder(Ins): all right now we're looking @ victim recognition......and we can
assess a heart victim by seeing if they are ________ and _______.
20:25: Peter Snyder(Ins): sorry, cardiac arrest victim
20:26: Jeremy Dorse: alert responding
20:26: Kelly Wilson: just a guess with breathing abnormally
20:26: Justine Holguin: conscious?
20:26: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, you'll need to know this by thursday........If a person has no
pulse and has no breath....begin _____.
20:26: Justine Holguin: or checking their pulse?
20:26: Jeremy Dorse: CPR
20:27: Kelly Wilson: CPR
20:27: Justine Holguin: begin the "rescue breathing"
20:27: Peter Snyder(Ins): YES Jeremy.....now, what if they HAVE a pulse and HAVE
breathing are there any other things that are life threatening?
20:27: Jeremy Dorse: Shock
20:28: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes.....good Jeremy; anything else?
20:28: Lewis Alva: stoke
20:28: Kelly Wilson: internal bleeding but that can be with anything
20:28: Peter Snyder(Ins): meaning stRoke....yes, Lewis...yes, Kelly is close.
20:28: Kelly Wilson: I mean anywhere in the body
20:28: Jeremy Dorse: Hypothermia....got that from deadliest Catch...
20:29: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, hypothermia is a form of SHOCK......what happens if a
person severs a major artery?
20:29: Jeremy Dorse: bleed out...
20:29: Jeremy Dorse: tournequet...
20:29: Jeremy Dorse: sp.
20:29: Kelly Wilson: there must be pressure applied
20:30: Caitlin Schoensiegel: they'll eventually go into a state of shock
20:31: Kelly Wilson: they could eventually die
20:31: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K., just for prioritizing PRIMARY survey, a person can bleed to
death in 2 minutes.....a person's brain cells begin to die from lack of O2 in 4-6 minutes.....and
a stroke victim and all others can go into shock and die within a very short time as well.
20:32: Jeremy Dorse: Bleeding always first priority
20:32: Peter Snyder(Ins): SO, remember that all of these PLUS one other that usually
affects younger kids are all listed as PRIMARY survey life-threatening emergencies - what is
this fifth affliction?
20:33: Jeremy Dorse: Heat stroke
20:33: Jeremy Dorse: ?
20:33: Peter Snyder(Ins): remember, kids.....always putting stuff in their mouths....
20:33: Justine Holguin: choking!
20:34: Peter Snyder(Ins): no....choking is in A, B, C.
20:34: Sandra Donis has entered the room.
20:34: Peter Snyder(Ins): we won't deal with it until later but poisoning is a priority for
PRIMARY survey.
20:35: Peter Snyder(Ins): hi Sandra..Now, what then are typical examples of a first aider's
SECONDARY survey of a victim?
20:35: Kelly Wilson: consciousness
20:35: Kelly Wilson: ?
20:36: Kelly Wilson: or pulse?
20:36: Jeremy Dorse: Broken bones
20:36: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes, this is part primary.....Jeremy is correct, why are broken
bones secondary?
20:37: Caitlin Schoensiegel: because they aren't life threatening
20:37: Kelly Wilson: must assest situation before moving person
20:37: Jeremy Dorse: Unless it is your neck or skull
20:37: Kelly Wilson: to make sure you don't make the situation worse
20:37: Caitlin Schoensiegel: for the most part
20:37: Peter Snyder(Ins): Yes, Caitlin....so try to keep this in mind about First Aid
responses.
20:38: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K. now to focus on the heart....how many times a minute does
a heart beat for an adult?....a child?.....an infant?
20:39: Lewis Alva: 60-100 for an adult
20:39: Sandra Donis: 100-120 for an infant
20:39: Jeremy Dorse: unless you are a cardio god like Lance Armstrong....
20:40: Peter Snyder(Ins): Yes, Lewis, though it's rare that an adult will have a resting heart
beat @ 100............and how old is an infant and child acc. to the Red Cross?
20:40: Justine Holguin: 12 and under is a child i think...
20:41: Justine Holguin: and an infant is under 1
20:41: Peter Snyder(Ins): This is a test question.....where does one feel for pulse in an
infant or a child or an adult?
20:41: Kelly Wilson: on the wrist and below the jaw
20:41: Jeremy Dorse: Adult carotid pulse
20:42: Caitlin Schoensiegel: infant brachial
20:42: Jeremy Dorse: with index and middle finger
20:42: Peter Snyder(Ins): good....carotid is below the jaw....adult and Cailin is correct about
infant location.
20:42: Peter Snyder(Ins): what about child?
20:43: Jeremy Dorse: Femoral....
20:43: Jeremy Dorse: ?
20:43: Jeremy Dorse: or Radial is all that is left...
20:43: Lewis Alva: carotid
20:43: Sandra Donis: wrist or carotid?
20:43: Peter Snyder(Ins): no Jeremy......Lewis is correct!
20:43: Peter Snyder(Ins): how old is a child?
20:44: Sandra Donis: 1-12
20:44: Peter Snyder(Ins): Sandra is mostly correct tho I think the Red Cross says 1-8.
20:45: Peter Snyder(Ins): Now, if a victim is CONSCIOUS and is not breathing, BUT has a
pulse, what are the first-aider's steps?
20:46: Jeremy Dorse: check airway
20:46: Peter Snyder(Ins): good, Jeremy, and if the airway is blocked?
20:46: Lewis Alva: perform abdominal thrusts
20:46: Justine Holguin: tilt the chin up
20:47: Peter Snyder(Ins): Good Lewis......remember that abdominal thrusts are DIFFERENT
if the person is conscious than if they are unconscious.....how?
20:47: Jeremy Dorse: if you can see the obstruction you should be able to remove it
20:47: Peter Snyder(Ins): but what method(s) are used?
20:48: Jeremy Dorse: if conscious they can tell you they are choking....
20:48: Jeremy Dorse: or mimic
20:48: Jeremy Dorse: Heimlic sp
20:48: Caitlin Schoensiegel: if the victim becomes unconscious you must lower them to the
ground
20:49: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K. remember that CONSCIOUS victim airway obstruction =
abdominal thrusts (a.k.a. Heimlich); UNCONSCIOUS victim airway obstruction = chest thrusts.
20:49: Jeremy Dorse: I disagree...if they are unconscious because they are choking
immediate action is needed...
20:49: Jeremy Dorse: am I wrong?
20:50: Peter Snyder(Ins): there's no dispute here......and finally we'll wrap up talking about
prudent heart living and good samaritan laws......what are the risk factors for heart attacks?
20:51: Kelly Wilson: smoking
20:51: Peter Snyder(Ins): good Kelly.....
20:51: Justine Holguin: age
20:51: Justine Holguin: (increasing)
20:51: Jeremy Dorse: Atherosclerosis
20:51: Kelly Wilson: plaque biuld up
20:51: Justine Holguin: high blood pressure/cholestoral
20:51: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, yes......Justine.....what is the cause for plaque build up?
20:51: Sandra Donis: bad diet and no exercise
20:51: Peter Snyder(Ins): sorry, build
20:52: Peter Snyder(Ins): GOOD, Sandra, so we're up to five now......any more risk factors?
20:52: Lewis Alva: you can also inherit heart conditions
20:52: Peter Snyder(Ins): i.e. heredity
20:52: Jeremy Dorse: Genetics
20:52: Justine Holguin: Stress as well... right?
20:53: Jeremy Dorse: Teenage Girls...
20:53: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes, Justine, and what GENDER exhibits these "stressess"..
20:53: Peter Snyder(Ins): stresses
20:53: Sandra Donis: usually the opposite one
20:53: Peter Snyder(Ins): who lives longer?
20:53: Caitlin Schoensiegel: women
20:53: Sandra Donis: women
20:53: Jeremy Dorse: Men are dominant but woman are catching up
20:53: Jeremy Dorse: dominant as far as heart disease
20:54: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes Caitlin and Sandra are correct.....so I think we got them
all.....
20:54: Peter Snyder(Ins): Now, if a person refuses your help as a rescuer, can you still help
them?
20:55: Kelly Wilson: 911
20:55: Caitlin Schoensiegel: no
20:55: Peter Snyder(Ins): Caitlin, why not?
20:56: Jeremy Dorse: Medical Directive
20:56: Sandra Donis: no but you can persuade them will help arrives
20:56: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, if a victim is UNconscious, can you then help them?
20:56: Jeremy Dorse: Yes
20:56: Peter Snyder(Ins): why?
20:56: Justine Holguin: if it is considered an emergency
20:56: Caitlin Schoensiegel: yes implied consent
20:56: Sandra Donis: yes it is implied consent
20:56: Jeremy Dorse: Good samaritan law
20:57: Peter Snyder(Ins): Caitlin and Sandra are correct, and this is VERY important - you
can absolve yourself of personal liability by calling 911 or waiting until the victim is
unconscious to get CONSENT!
20:58: Peter Snyder(Ins): What if a person hails you, must you stop?
20:58: Lewis Alva: yes
20:58: Peter Snyder(Ins): why?
20:59: Lewis Alva: it would be considered as negligence
20:59: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, if you as a first-aider make the judgment that you could be
risking your own safety, what are your options?
20:59: Justine Holguin: call 911
20:59: Jeremy Dorse: call 911
21:00: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes and yes and Lewis you were on the right track.....a rescuer
must stop if hailed....now, last question, what about administering a hypodermic needle, is it
o.k. for a rescuer to do this?
21:00: Jeremy Dorse: with permission from the victim
21:01: Peter Snyder(Ins): and what if the rescuer does it wrong?
21:01: Kelly Wilson: yes if allowed
21:01: Kelly Wilson: they could injure the patient
21:01: Sandra Donis: it could be a liability
21:01: Justine Holguin: and be held liable
21:02: Peter Snyder(Ins): MUCH better to have the victim administer the
hypodermic......only in extreme circumstances and WITH the assistance and approval of the
victim should this be attempted.
21:02: Justine Holguin: no arguments here about that.
21:02: Peter Snyder(Ins): Any questions on this session?
21:03: Jeremy Dorse: only that I need to be better prepared
21:03: Justine Holguin: no, but for future chats should we have the chapters on the outline
read before session?
21:03: Peter Snyder(Ins): remember that I will post these on my personal website:
http://staffwww.fullcoll.edu/psnyder
21:04: Peter Snyder(Ins): Justine......if you can read ahead this will move the Chat rooms
faster.....good job tonight.
21:04: Justine Holguin: Great, thanks!
21:04: Sandra Donis: see you thur
21:04: Kelly Wilson: night all
21:04: Justine Holguin: See ya'll then! Have a great week!
21:04: Lewis Alva: what should we expect on thurs? any required reading?
21:05: Peter Snyder(Ins): Remember, we will be quickly practicing on mannikins on
Thursday a.m......we MIGHT be able to test that day but I have to catch a plane so we'll see.
21:05: Peter Snyder(Ins): chapters 1-5 for the reading.
21:05: Jeremy Dorse: did you figure out which session you will be gone?
21:05: Peter Snyder(Ins): unlucky you I scheduled my flight late enough.
21:06: Jeremy Dorse: thanks for the information tonight....
21:06: Kelly Wilson has left the room.
21:06: Peter Snyder(Ins): see you - feel free to email with questions.

JUNE 8, 2008
20:03: Peter Snyder(Ins): Any question before we get started? we'll wait about 5 more min.
Jeremy, did A & R take you off my role?
20:04: Sandra Donis has entered the room.
20:04: Jeremy Dorse: but again it was 20 years ago I took the class
20:04: Peter Snyder(Ins): do you get a refund?
20:04: Jeremy Dorse: they should have an abcd 235
20:04: Jeremy Dorse: Not worried about the refund
20:04: Jeremy Dorse: I rather get recertified
20:05: Peter Snyder(Ins): we should @ least have a "refresher" class worth 1 unit. This has
been a problem with our Curriculum process.
20:05: Peter Snyder(Ins): hi Sandra!
20:05: Sandra Donis: hello everyone
20:06: Peter Snyder(Ins): wait a couple fo more minutes.
20:06: Jeremy Dorse: fyi 68 59 boston 4 min left in 3rd quarter
20:07: Peter Snyder(Ins): Lakers can't expect to win if they get out-rebounded like they
have.
20:07: Jeremy Dorse: + the foul situation
20:07: Jeremy Dorse: situation
20:08: Peter Snyder(Ins): sorry ladies, we're coming as close as men do to multi-tasking.
20:08: Jeremy Dorse: lol
20:08: Lewis Alva has entered the room.
20:09: Jeremy Dorse: I think laker fans are in "shock"
20:09: Jeremy Dorse: check the A.B.C's.
20:09: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, first reminder is that the CPR written test is on Thursday
a.m. Need a #2 pencil and a scan tron - green, #882
20:09: Sandra Donis: on what chapters again?
20:10: Peter Snyder(Ins): After we are done with the written test, we will practice & do the
practical on infant mannikins.
20:10: Peter Snyder(Ins): Chapters 1-6 in the AAOS book
20:11: Sandra Donis: sounds good
20:11: Peter Snyder(Ins): o.k. first acronym that I'll throw @ you tonite - having to do with
a secondary survey: DOTS - what does this mean?
20:12: Lewis Alva: deformity, open wounds, tenderness, and swelling
20:12: Jeremy Dorse: S shock
20:13: Peter Snyder(Ins): Good job Lewis. You will need to know this for First Aid...and it
has to do with assessing the victim's situation.
20:13: Peter Snyder(Ins): Let's take the "O" part - remember that last time we spoke of
how fast a person can bleed to death - what does the acronym APAIL stand for?
20:14: John Choe has entered the room.
20:14: John Choe: phew.. finally got in. sorry for being late everyone
20:14: Peter Snyder(Ins): hi John - must have given up on the Lakers.
20:14: Jeremy Dorse: Boston by 22
20:14: John Choe: watching right now... so sad
20:15: Peter Snyder(Ins): o.k......wounds, the acronym is used to describe the varieties of
open wounds.
20:15: Jeremy Dorse: Puncture, laceration
20:15: Jeremy Dorse: abrasion
20:16: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, good Jeremy, that's half of them....
20:16: Sandra Donis: avulsion incision
20:16: Peter Snyder(Ins): good Sandra....and the most severe type of bleed is?
20:16: Jeremy Dorse: avulsion
20:17: Sandra Donis: laceration
20:17: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes Jeremy - which is a wound where?
20:17: Sandra Donis: most often on ears, fingers and hand
20:18: Peter Snyder(Ins): A better question: what should the first aider do with an avulsed
body part?
20:18: John Choe has left the room.
20:18: Jeremy Dorse: put on ice....
20:18: Jeremy Dorse: save the appendage
20:19: Peter Snyder(Ins): o.k. you'll need to know this because surgeons are very skilled at
re-attaching many things to the body.
20:19: Jeremy Dorse: salt water
20:19: John Choe has entered the room.
20:19: Sandra Donis: clean the area
20:19: Peter Snyder(Ins): and now the bleeding part - what is the most effective way of
stopping bleeding on an open wound?
20:19: John Choe: sorry. im having trouble with my internet
20:20: Sandra Donis: apply pressure
20:20: John Choe: rinse with water and use rubbing alcohol
20:20: John Choe: and then apply pressure?
20:20: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes, Sandra is correct - d.p. on the wound......and if this doesn't
work?
20:21: Jeremy Dorse: if it is arterial and you can't stop the bleeding you may have to apply a
tourniquet
20:21: Jeremy Dorse: sp
20:21: Sandra Donis: use pressure on pressure point
20:21: John Choe: the brachial or femoral pressure point
20:21: Jeremy Dorse: usually the last result
20:21: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, d.p. is not going to stop bleeding in all cases - the next step
is to ELEVATE after direct pressure.
20:22: Peter Snyder(Ins): And then, as Sandra and John indicate, pressure on the major
artery or vein - which one?
20:22: Jeremy Dorse: the one closest to the injured area
20:23: Sandra Donis: radial, brachial, femur or popliteal
20:23: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes! Jeremy, this is very important because pressing on a
pressure point stops blood flow to an area and the tissue will be deprived of O2 as a
result........and Sandra is correct regarding what?
20:24: Sandra Donis: the location of the pressure
20:24: Peter Snyder(Ins): points.....be sure to know of these & print out the diagram......
20:25: Peter Snyder(Ins): btw, what was the error on the CPR video clips?
20:25: Jeremy Dorse: 15:2
20:25: Peter Snyder(Ins): instead of?
20:25: John Choe: i could not view the video clips
20:25: Jeremy Dorse: 30:2
20:25: Sandra Donis: also the compressions seemed to deep
20:26: Jeremy Dorse: I also couldn't see the video but took a guess
20:26: Sandra Donis: it looked like 3-4 in instead of 1.5-2 in
20:26: John Choe: it doesn't load on my player
20:26: Peter Snyder(Ins): John, you need quicktime or some other sort of video program
(real player).
20:26: Jeremy Dorse: mine either
20:26: Caitlin Schoensiegel: mine either
20:26: John Choe: ill try again
20:26: Peter Snyder(Ins): I think you can download these for free?
20:27: Jeremy Dorse: me too
20:27: Sandra Donis: yes you can
20:27: Jeremy Dorse: I have quick time so I will try real player
20:27: Peter Snyder(Ins): anyway, yes, these are OLD clips that I have to update, though
the form is good....then there was a problem with the airway management with an unconscious
adult - who picked this up?
20:28: Sandra Donis: is this on a different video?
20:29: John Choe: i can see the videos using winamp
20:29: Peter Snyder(Ins): o.k. be sure to look this over - we'll do conscious v. unconscious
adult and infant airway management.....yes Sandra, this is a different video.
20:31: Sandra Donis: yes since you are reducing the amount of necessary blood to the areas
20:31: Sandra Donis: sorry, area
20:31: Peter Snyder(Ins): you'll notice that it is not in the recent books....Jeremy is correct
- and we will go over this during our ONE bandaging session.
20:31: Peter Snyder(Ins): a tourniquet is the choice between LIFE and LIMB......what does
that mean?
20:32: Jeremy Dorse: either you Die or you lose a limb
20:32: John Choe: you have to cut off a limb in order to live
20:32: Sandra Donis: you save your life by stopping the bleeding or loose a limb
20:32: Jeremy Dorse: very common in War...
20:33: Peter Snyder(Ins): GOOD! the only reason I'm doing this is because the U.S. Army
(and the other armed forces) still have tourniquets in their curriculum, so I think we should @
least know about it in the tragic situation that you might have to use it.
20:34: John Choe: ok
20:34: Peter Snyder(Ins): Now, on to the "T" of DOTS - what does this refer to?
20:34: Sandra Donis: tenderness
20:34: Jeremy Dorse: internal injuries
20:36: Peter Snyder(Ins): good Sandra, and D and T refer typically to internal versus
external injuries.....there is one type of wound that includes both a bone injury and bleeding -
what is this called?
20:36: Peter Snyder(Ins): hint: the bone has protruded through the skin....
20:37: Jeremy Dorse: compact fracture
20:37: Sandra Donis: fractures?
20:37: Peter Snyder(Ins): btw looking grim for the purple & gold.
20:37: John Choe: the refs are calling the worst fouls
20:37: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, you're both close: compound FRACTURE - and what do we
NOT do with this type of wound?
20:38: Jeremy Dorse: direct pressure
20:38: Peter Snyder(Ins): no, we have to stop the bleeding somehow.
20:38: Sandra Donis: relocate or re insert the bone
20:38: Jeremy Dorse: Move the victim?
20:39: Jeremy Dorse: as in not elevate the broken limb
20:40: Peter Snyder(Ins): now, someone way back mentioned cleaning the wound......why
is this done and to what kinds of wounds do we do this?
20:41: John Choe: so there is no infection
20:41: Jeremy Dorse: Prevent infection
20:41: Jeremy Dorse: abrasion,
20:41: Peter Snyder(Ins): Good.....what are the indications of infection?
20:41: Peter Snyder(Ins): sorry, think DOTS
20:42: Lewis Alva: swelling mainly
20:42: Jeremy Dorse: gangrene,
20:42: Peter Snyder(Ins): good, and the "T"?
20:43: Sandra Donis: tenderness
20:43: Sandra Donis: sensitivity, discomfort pain
20:43: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes, Sandra, Jeremy, and Lewis, so the signs and symptoms of
infection include?
20:44: Jeremy Dorse: point tenderness,
20:44: Peter Snyder(Ins): all of the above including:
20:44: Lewis Alva: redness
20:44: Peter Snyder(Ins): good - and the WORST sign is?
20:44: Sandra Donis: pus
20:45: Lewis Alva: on or more red streaks leading from the wound toward the heart
20:45: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, yes, worse than that - Lewis is correct.
20:45: Jeremy Dorse: staph infection
20:45: Jeremy Dorse: sp
20:46: Peter Snyder(Ins): Last area we're going to go over this evening is another life-
threatening reaction to an illness or sudden injury - this is?
20:46: Jeremy Dorse: SHOCK
20:46: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes - and Caitlin, what is shock?
20:47: Peter Snyder(Ins): anyone?
20:47: Caitlin Schoensiegel: you lose consciousness /lose touch with reality
20:47: Sandra Donis: not enough blood circulating in the body
20:47: Jeremy Dorse: shock is the disruption of vital organs
20:47: John Choe: state of collapse and failure of the cardiovascular system
20:47: John Choe: blood circulation decreases and eventually stops
20:47: Peter Snyder(Ins): good.....all the way around - can a person be conscious and in
shock?
20:47: Jeremy Dorse: due to compensation for initial injury
20:47: Jeremy Dorse: yes
20:48: Sandra Donis: actually, not enough blood to vital organs
20:48: Sandra Donis: yes
20:48: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K......so we've established that shock can be life-threatening -
and it is so because the body reacts and sends the blood where?
20:49: Jeremy Dorse: to vital organs originally
20:50: Jeremy Dorse: then back to injured area and there are multiple collapses of vital
organs...domino effect
20:50: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes - and unfortunately the brain is NOT considered a vital
organ.....huge comeback.
20:51: Peter Snyder(Ins): So, commercial time out.....there are a good 5-6 types of shock
that you will need to know - let's name some of them:
20:51: Lewis Alva: anaphylactic shock
20:52: Jeremy Dorse: hypothermia
20:52: Sandra Donis: hypovolemic
20:52: Lewis Alva: traumatic shock and hemorrhagic shock
20:52: Peter Snyder(Ins): Sandra is correct, Lewis is correct
20:53: Caitlin Schoensiegel: psychogenic
20:53: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes - Caitlin, and this is where the victim actually does what?
20:54: Caitlin Schoensiegel: faints
20:54: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes......and a couple of more?
20:54: Peter Snyder(Ins): If a person is in shock because of an infection, this is called?
20:55: Sandra Donis: septic
20:55: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes........and our last one, having to do with a heart attack?
20:55: Jeremy Dorse: cardiac shock
20:56: Peter Snyder(Ins): or cardiogenic.....now, what is the first aid for shock?
20:56: Lewis Alva: lay them on their back and elevate the legs
20:56: Jeremy Dorse: Primary look for Bleeding, make sure victim is warm
20:57: Sandra Donis: monitor breathing
20:57: Peter Snyder(Ins): Lewis is correct.....why do we elevate their legs? and Jeremy is
correct -why do we cover the shock victim?
20:58: Caitlin Schoensiegel: helps stop bleeding in lower extremities
20:58: John Choe has left the room.
20:59: Peter Snyder(Ins): now see what you did.......John left the room he was in so much
________ shock!
20:59: Caitlin Schoensiegel: helps blood to drain from legs back to heart
20:59: Sandra Donis: to trap body heat
21:00: Sandra Donis: psychogenic shock - John
21:00: Peter Snyder(Ins): Sandra is correct......Caitlin, the reason the feet are up is so that
the blood goes to the brain; we don't want too much of it in the chest region.
21:00: Kelly Wilson has entered the room.
21:00: Kelly Wilson: of course by the time I get into the chat room class is over
21:00: Peter Snyder(Ins): Kelly - did you take John's place, we think he's gone into
psychogenic shock over the Lakers loss.
21:01: Kelly Wilson: haha, maybe
21:01: Sandra Donis: lol
21:01: Jeremy Dorse: Here you go Kelly Summary d.o.t.s.... deformity open wounds
tenderness swelling
21:01: Peter Snyder(Ins): well you'll be able to scroll back through this when we're
done.....which we almost are.
21:01: Kelly Wilson: I figured
21:03: Peter Snyder(Ins): Final note about shock: it is an AUTOMATIC response which can
be stopped by what the first aider does......and, it occurs in MOST serious injuries and, it is
MANY times the reason a victim dies - not from the wound itself.....therefore ALWAYS treat for
_________.
21:04: Kelly Wilson: a heart attack or allergic reaction?
21:04: Jeremy Dorse: shock...
21:04: Peter Snyder(Ins): Therefore, ALWAYS treat for __________________.
21:05: Jeremy Dorse: Yes....Can I still come to class?
21:05: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes
21:05: Kelly Wilson: where will these notes be posted
21:05: Lewis Alva has left the room.
21:06: Lewis Alva has entered the room.
21:06: Kelly Wilson: are we still having a quiz on Thursday
21:06: Peter Snyder(Ins): on my personal website: http://staffwww.fullcoll.edu/psnyder
21:06: Sandra Donis: yes on chap 1-6, right?
21:06: Kelly Wilson: did we just go over chapters 6 and 7 tonight
21:07: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes - test on thurs. CPR final this website spazzed
http://staffwww.fullcoll.edu/psnyder
21:07: Kelly Wilson: Jeremy did you get a book
21:07: Peter Snyder(Ins): wrong again......oh well - you can go to the college website &
seach my name for it.....yes, Chapters 1-6.

JUNE 15
21:07: Jeremy Dorse: Nope...trusting my memory!
21:07: Lewis Alva: http://staffwww.fullcoll.edu/psnyder/
20:08: Sandra Donis: hey lewis
20:08: Jeremy Dorse: Pete is trying to hold off to the last minute
20:08: Kelly Wilson: hey lewis, remember any french
20:08: Peter Snyder(Ins) has entered the room.
20:08: Sandra Donis: parle vous francais
20:08: Lewis Alva: Nope I dont remember any french
20:08: Peter Snyder(Ins): un peu
20:09: Jeremy Dorse: le french fri excellente
20:09: Kelly Wilson: haha, I remember petite
20:09: Sandra Donis: ces't domage
20:09: Sandra Donis: that's too bad
20:09: Peter Snyder(Ins): c'est arju duis?
20:09: Kelly Wilson: I need to refresh that's for sure
20:09: John Choe: ??
20:09: Kelly Wilson: don't know that one
20:09: Jeremy Dorse: pepe le peu
20:10: Peter Snyder(Ins): sorry, c'est arjous dui?
20:10: Sandra Donis: that means today
20:10: Kelly Wilson: c'est is this is right
20:10: Jeremy Dorse: How do you say Boston in 5?
20:10: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K. enough of inspector Cluseau......we need to get going to get
us all prepared for thursday morning.
20:10: Sandra Donis: boston en cenc
20:10: Kelly Wilson: ok ok
20:11: Jeremy Dorse: Muchas Graciaa
20:11: Jeremy Dorse: s
20:11: Sandra Donis: de nada
20:11: Peter Snyder(Ins): There will be an exam on thursday - our First Aid Midterm - and
I'm once again going to violate one of the canons of teaching and teach to the test this
evening.
20:12: John Choe: :)
20:12: Jeremy Dorse: Applause
20:12: Kelly Wilson: yeah
20:12: Sandra Donis: bravo bravo
20:12: Peter Snyder(Ins): The leading cause of death among children is?
20:12: Jeremy Dorse: Injuries
20:12: John Choe: injury
20:12: Sandra Donis: injuries
20:13: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes yes and yes....which is why we need to know about
poisoning.
20:14: Peter Snyder(Ins): what are the ways a poison can get into a victim's body?
20:14: John Choe: mouth
20:14: Sandra Donis: ingesting
20:14: Kelly Wilson: nose
20:14: Jeremy Dorse: nose
20:14: Jeremy Dorse: ingested
20:14: Sandra Donis: inhaling
20:14: Jeremy Dorse: puncture
20:14: Jeremy Dorse: venom
20:14: Kelly Wilson: absorbed
20:14: Kelly Wilson: injected
20:15: Peter Snyder(Ins): so far we've covered MOST.....and then Kelly got the final
one...........obviously in children, the most common way is?
20:15: Kelly Wilson: ingesting?
20:15: Sandra Donis: mouth
20:15: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes and yes! Now, how should first aid be administered to a
poison victim?
20:16: Sandra Donis: do not induce vomiting
20:16: Kelly Wilson: determine age and size
20:16: Sandra Donis: determine poison
20:16: Jeremy Dorse: Primary first
20:16: Kelly Wilson: abdominal pain as a sign
20:17: Kelly Wilson: or nausea or vomiting
20:17: Jeremy Dorse: What how and when
20:17: Peter Snyder(Ins): Sandra is almost right.....Kelly is helpful..... Sandra is CORRECT
and we need to establish this....are there ANY conditions in which the victim should vomit?
20:17: Jeremy Dorse: I would thinking of swallowing too many pills
20:18: Kelly Wilson: what about alcohol poisoning
20:18: Kelly Wilson: ing
20:18: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K.
20:19: Peter Snyder(Ins): WEll, my cursor is bass-akwards tomorrow so I'm going to have
to think right to left.....
20:20: Jeremy Dorse: ?
20:21: Peter Snyder(Ins): If a child swallows some form of food or liquid, there is something
called syrum of ipecac.....the only reason that a person should NOT vomit is if they have
ingested or otherwise taken an acid, base, or petroleum distillate.
20:22: Peter Snyder(Ins): Syrum of ipecac does what?
20:22: Sandra Donis: induce vomiting
20:22: Peter Snyder(Ins): YES, sandra.....and, is there anything we should administer to a
person who has ingested an acid or a base?
20:23: Jeremy Dorse: milk
20:23: Sandra Donis: activated charcoal
20:23: Peter Snyder(Ins): good, Jeremy, why milk.....good, SAndra, why charcoal?
20:23: Kelly Wilson: or cold water
20:23: Jeremy Dorse: Neutralize...
20:24: Jeremy Dorse: sp
20:24: Sandra Donis: absorbs poison in the belly
20:24: Kelly Wilson: it dilutes them
20:25: Peter Snyder(Ins): good, Sandra - activated charcoal absorbs especially any
petroleum distillates - oil, gasolene, kerosene, etc.
20:25: John Choe: bsorb heat better
20:26: Peter Snyder(Ins): so, have I clarified when to induce vomiting, and when not to?
20:26: Jeremy Dorse: Yes
20:26: Kelly Wilson: yes
20:26: Sandra Donis: yes
20:26: Jeremy Dorse: If a child swallows some form of food or liquid, there is something
called syrum of ipecac.....the only reason that a person should NOT vomit is if they have
ingested or otherwise taken an acid, base, or petroleum distillate.
20:27: Peter Snyder(Ins): Now on to inhaled forms of poison - what are examples of these?,
20:27: Jeremy Dorse: Glue
20:27: Kelly Wilson: marijuana
20:27: Jeremy Dorse: Fumes
20:27: Sandra Donis: chemicals
20:27: Sandra Donis: carbon monoxide
20:27: Jeremy Dorse: I did not inhale...
20:27: John Choe: glue, solvents
20:28: Peter Snyder(Ins): we are getting closer.....some are more correct than
others.....any other types?
20:28: Kelly Wilson: depressants?
20:28: Sandra Donis: nail polish remover
20:28: John Choe: carbon monoxide
20:29: Kelly Wilson: what about hydrogen chloride, which is an acid right?
20:29: Sandra Donis: marijuana
20:29: Sandra Donis: cocaine
20:29: Peter Snyder(Ins): what about chlorine gas or any other form of anti-oxidant?
20:30: Jeremy Dorse: anit oxidant are in Vitamins?
20:30: Peter Snyder(Ins): oxygen, taken in large amounts can be poisonous, as well.
20:30: John Choe: ohh
20:30: Jeremy Dorse: divers right///
20:30: Sandra Donis: carbon dioxide
20:32: Sandra Donis: FYI anti oxidants prevent oxidation in metals
20:32: Jeremy Dorse: Antioxidants are substances that may protect your cells against the
effects of free radicals. Free radicals are molecules produced when your body breaks down
food, or by environmental exposures like tobacco smoke and radiation. Free radicals can
damage cells, and may play a role in heart disease, cancer and other diseases.
20:32: Peter Snyder(Ins): sorry, I used the wrong term I meant to say toxic.
20:34: Peter Snyder(Ins): So, how do we recognize if a person is passed out (unconscious)
and is suffering from an inhaled poison? I meant I misspelled wrong.
20:35: John Choe: smell of solvents
20:35: Lewis Alva: slow breathing rate
20:35: Sandra Donis: seizures
20:35: Peter Snyder(Ins): This is not a difficult thing to do.....first, the person must be
removed from the area...yes, John is correct: most toxic odors you can smell except?
20:36: Kelly Wilson: cco2
20:36: Kelly Wilson: CO2
20:36: Jeremy Dorse: carbon dioxide
20:36: Lewis Alva: carbon monoxide
20:36: John Choe: co
20:36: Kelly Wilson: lewis is right
20:36: Sandra Donis: what kelly said
20:36: Kelly Wilson: oops
20:37: Sandra Donis: about lewis
20:37: Peter Snyder(Ins): John and Lewis got this.....how can we tell about CO poisoning, or
Carbon Monoxide poisoning?
20:37: Kelly Wilson: headache, chest pain
20:37: John Choe: ringing in ears
20:38: Sandra Donis: nausea
20:38: John Choe: muscle weakness, nausea vomiting
20:38: Lewis Alva: muscle weakness
20:38: John Choe: unresponsiveness
20:38: Kelly Wilson: dizziness
20:38: John Choe: respiratory and cardiac arrest
20:38: Kelly Wilson: symptoms come and go
20:38: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K. you'll have to look this up....John, Sandra, and Lewis are
correct.
20:39: Peter Snyder(Ins): And, lastly about poisoning - what is poison oak?
20:39: Peter Snyder(Ins): how does it get into the body?
20:40: Kelly Wilson: the skin
20:40: John Choe: low bushes or climbing vines with waxy, broad, green leaves in the
summer that change to brown to red in fall
20:40: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes, Kelly, but how?
20:40: John Choe: 3 leaves
20:41: Sandra Donis: the skin comes in contact with the leaves
20:41: Peter Snyder(Ins): remember that we discussed the ways a poison could get in the
body way back when.
20:41: Sandra Donis: absorbed
20:42: Peter Snyder(Ins): Yes, Sandra is correct - what should be done about poison oak?
20:42: John Choe: check severity
20:42: Peter Snyder(Ins): Do not?
20:42: John Choe: wash skin with soap and water
20:42: Kelly Wilson: you should wash the skin, the person themselves
20:42: Peter Snyder(Ins): sorry, do not do what to poison oak?
20:42: Sandra Donis: scratch or rub
20:43: John Choe: dont use nonprescription hydrocortisone creams
20:43: John Choe: and dont use anti itch lotions
20:43: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes, Kelly and yes John.....now to give test questions in our last
20 min.
20:43: Peter Snyder(Ins): Sunburn is a ______________ degree burn?
20:43: Sandra Donis: 1st
20:44: Jeremy Dorse: Not mine....
20:44: Peter Snyder(Ins): Blisters should be handled by?
20:45: Peter Snyder(Ins): What should be placed in contact with a wound and what should
hold this particular piece of first aid equipment in place on a wound?
20:45: John Choe: immerse in cold water or apply a wet cold cloth to reduce pain
20:45: Jeremy Dorse: pressure bandage
20:46: John Choe: cover burn with dry non-sticking sterile dressing or clean cloth
20:46: Sandra Donis: apply an antibiotic cream
20:46: Sandra Donis: then dressing
20:46: Peter Snyder(Ins): good John Jeremy... &
20:46: Peter Snyder(Ins): that should
20:47: Peter Snyder(Ins): good, and what should come in contact with the wound?
20:47: Sandra Donis: dressing only
20:47: Peter Snyder(Ins): what type of dressing?
20:47: Kelly Wilson: non stick
20:47: Sandra Donis: sterile
20:47: Peter Snyder(Ins): YES!!
20:48: John Choe: clean
20:48: Sandra Donis: it can
20:48: Sandra Donis: oops
20:48: Peter Snyder(Ins): Next, in the case of bleeding from the head or scalp, what should
a first aider expect?
20:48: Jeremy Dorse: lots of blood
20:49: John Choe: pictures are disturbing
20:49: Peter Snyder(Ins): Yes, the head region is very vascular....so this increases the
chance of ?
20:49: Sandra Donis: hypoperfusion
20:49: Peter Snyder(Ins): which means?
20:49: Sandra Donis: not enough blood to vital organs
20:50: Jeremy Dorse: DEATH
20:50: Kelly Wilson: what about shock
20:50: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, really what I'm looking for is increased chance of infection.
20:50: Sandra Donis: that too
20:51: Jeremy Dorse: we were going for the million dollar answers
20:51: Peter Snyder(Ins): Next, how should a first-aider treat bruises?
20:51: Jeremy Dorse: not the obvious...lol
20:51: Kelly Wilson: apply ice pack
20:52: Peter Snyder(Ins): Kelly is correct.....why?
20:52: Sandra Donis: it reduces swelling
20:52: Jeremy Dorse: decrease blood flow
20:52: Kelly Wilson: in case of internal bleeding
20:52: Jeremy Dorse: constricts blood vessels
20:52: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes and yes and yes
20:53: Peter Snyder(Ins): next: how should puncture wound be cleaned?
20:53: Kelly Wilson: expose wound, clean it...
20:54: Sandra Donis: use clean water when cleansing
20:54: Kelly Wilson: remove object with tweezers
20:54: Sandra Donis: cleansing
20:54: John Choe: direct pressure
20:54: Kelly Wilson: if bleeding starts apply pressure
20:54: Peter Snyder(Ins): Kelly, we were talking about an internal wound so the FIRST AID
is NOT the same as that for an external wound
20:54: Jeremy Dorse: quickly control bleeding
20:55: John Choe: oh
20:55: Kelly Wilson: oh
20:55: Sandra Donis: oh
20:55: Peter Snyder(Ins): and Ice and put in the shock position - which is?
20:56: Jeremy Dorse: feet elevated
20:56: Jeremy Dorse: laying down
20:56: Jeremy Dorse: keep warm
20:56: Sandra Donis: face up with raised legs
20:56: Kelly Wilson: use RICE
20:59: Jeremy Dorse: must be watching last 2 min of laker game....
21:00: Sandra Donis: I figured
21:00: Kelly Wilson: rest, ice, compression, elevation, then if serious call 911, care for shock,
then if vomit roll to side
21:00: Kelly Wilson: actually that's if it's serious not matter what
21:00: Kelly Wilson: did we loose him?
21:01: Jeremy Dorse: Pete Pete you okay...No response call 911
21:01: Sandra Donis: he's still on the list
21:01: Kelly Wilson: not literally, but calling 911
21:01: Sandra Donis: I'll get the AED
21:01: Kelly Wilson: ok they're called
21:01: Jeremy Dorse: I'll do compressions
21:01: Jeremy Dorse: kelly you do breaths
21:02: Sandra Donis: good
21:02: Kelly Wilson: 2 for every 30
21:02: Jeremy Dorse: No pulse
21:02: Sandra Donis: we got him covered
21:02: Kelly Wilson: it's gonna be ok
21:02: Jeremy Dorse: He's choking...
21:02: Jeremy Dorse: What do you do Sandra
21:02: Sandra Donis: CLEAR!!!!!
21:03: Sandra Donis: AGAIN, CLEAR!!!
21:03: Kelly Wilson: hemlich
21:03: Kelly Wilson: if choking
21:03: Jeremy Dorse: yep Kelly
21:03: Lewis Alva: cant if he’s unresponsive
21:03: Jeremy Dorse: Lewis where do you but your hands
21:03: Jeremy Dorse: ?
21:03: John Choe: 37 sec!
21:03: Kelly Wilson: sandra, you don't need to electrocute him
21:04: Sandra Donis: CLEAR!!!!
21:04: Kelly Wilson: ok any breathing
21:04: Jeremy Dorse: No breathing but has a pulse
21:04: Kelly Wilson: ok rescue breaths
21:04: Jeremy Dorse: How many?
21:04: Kelly Wilson: 1 after every 5 sec
21:04: Jeremy Dorse: awesome...
21:04: Sandra Donis: for 1 minute
21:05: Kelly Wilson: good sandra
21:05: Sandra Donis: then recheck
21:05: Sandra Donis: man, we
21:05: Jeremy Dorse: unfortunately....it looks like we have lost our teacher
21:05: Sandra Donis: we're saving lives now
21:05: Jeremy Dorse: but we administered proper CPR
21:05: Kelly Wilson: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll never let go
21:05: Jeremy Dorse: Wait till he reads this transcript
21:06: Kelly Wilson: omg I know right
21:06: Jeremy Dorse: jk Dr. Snyder....we saved you
21:06: Sandra Donis: we all get A+
21:06: Jeremy Dorse: okay quick def of D.O.T.S.
21:06: Sandra Donis: deformities
21:06: Sandra Donis: open wounds
21:06: Sandra Donis: tenderness
21:06: Sandra Donis: swelling
21:07: Kelly Wilson: tenderness
21:07: Kelly Wilson: swelling
21:07: Jeremy Dorse: okay Kelly , A.B.C.
21:07: Sandra Donis: air way
21:07: Sandra Donis: breathing
21:07: Jeremy Dorse: Kelly...
21:07: Sandra Donis: circulation
21:07: Lewis Alva: lol
21:07: Sandra Donis: sorry
21:07: Kelly Wilson: lol
21:07: Sandra Donis: giong for the \scholar
21:07: Jeremy Dorse: Okay Kelly Name 3 types of shock
21:07: Jeremy Dorse: KELLY!
21:07: Jeremy Dorse: lol
21:08: Kelly Wilson: why am i getting all the questions
21:08: Jeremy Dorse: lol
21:08: Sandra Donis: septic
21:08: Jeremy Dorse: Because you stole the last book
21:08: Kelly Wilson: i can't spell it but anaphylatic
21:08: Jeremy Dorse: and I am going on memory
21:08: Kelly Wilson: haha
21:09: Jeremy Dorse: well it is 9 and I don't think he is coming back
21:09: Sandra Donis: jeremy, what does
21:09: Kelly Wilson: resp. inefficiency
21:09: John Choe: i think he'll come back in 24 sec
21:09: Jeremy Dorse: unless he is just enjoying our banter
21:09: Sandra Donis: APAIL stand for
21:09: John Choe: after the final seconds of the game
21:09: Jeremy Dorse: Avulsion Puncture Abrasion Incision laceration
21:10: Lewis Alva: anyone else see the degloving picture in the book?
21:10: Sandra Donis: GROSS
21:10: Lewis Alva: yup
21:10: John Choe: all the pictures are gross
21:10: Sandra Donis: i put a post it note over it
21:10: Sandra Donis: on most of them actually
21:10: Kelly Wilson: lol, well I have to get going, do think he's coming back?
21:11: Jeremy Dorse: back in the 80's when I first took this class I got an ear pierciing and
the Tough Football coach who taught the class made an example of me and my "puncture
wound"
21:11: Sandra Donis: cool
21:11:   Sandra Donis: jk
21:11:   Jeremy Dorse: don't forget Scantron...
21:11:   Kelly Wilson: then my belly is punctured
21:11:   Jeremy Dorse: because I need one!
21:11:   John Choe: lakers finally win
21:11:   Kelly Wilson: that was john that owed you one
21:11:   Sandra Donis: maybe he
21:12:   Jeremy Dorse: alright John...don't forget...
21:12:   John Choe: ill give u a scantron
21:12:   Sandra Donis: he will come back now
21:12:   John Choe: i have it
21:12:   Jeremy Dorse: don't want to have to fork out another .25 cents
21:12:   Jeremy Dorse: Coll
21:12:   Jeremy Dorse: cool
21:12:   Sandra Donis: get a 6 pack
21:12:   Jeremy Dorse: anybody check their email?
21:12:   Sandra Donis: of scantrons that is
21:12:   Kelly Wilson: no not yet
21:12:   Jeremy Dorse: and see if Pete sent us one?
21:12:   John Choe: i did
21:12:   Sandra Donis: i did
21:12:   Jeremy Dorse: any message?
21:13:   Sandra Donis: he sent our scores
21:13:   John Choe: he sent me one regarding me not passing the test
21:13:   Jeremy Dorse: I got Carmela's not mine
21:13:   John Choe: he said he'll jus verbally ask me a question or two
21:13:   Kelly Wilson: same here just answered it
21:13:   Jeremy Dorse: alright...Good night everyone. Hope you are ok Dr. Snyder...
21:14:   Sandra Donis: i seriously hope he's ok
21:14:   Kelly Wilson: night!
21:14:   Kelly Wilson has left the room.
21:14:   Jeremy Dorse: do we have his #?
21:14:   Sandra Donis: i think not
21:14:   Jeremy Dorse has left the room.
21:14:   Sandra Donis: only for campus
21:15:   John Choe: i g2g too, cya thurs everyone
21:15:   John Choe has left the room.
21:15:   Sandra Donis: hello, mr. snyder, were are you
21:15:   John Choe has left the room.
21:15:   Sandra Donis: hello, mr. snyder, were are you
21:15:   Sandra Donis: bye now
21:15:   Sandra Donis has left the room.
21:16:   Lewis Alva has left the room.
21:20:   Peter Snyder(Ins): good, sorry, technical difficulties - will email catch up tomorrow
a.m.
21:20:   Peter Snyder(Ins) has left the room.
JUNE 22
19:55:   Kelly Wilson: hey jeremy what does CSM stand for again
19:56:   Jeremy Dorse: CSM?
19:56:   Jeremy Dorse: Never heard of that acronym....
19:56:   Kelly Wilson: it's in chapter with splinting
19:57:   Jeremy Dorse: what chapter are you looking at?
19:57:   Jeremy Dorse: hmmmmm....
19:57:   Jeremy Dorse: if they are talking about ractures it could be simple, compound
19:57:   Jeremy Dorse: fractures
19:58: Jeremy Dorse: sorry but you got me on that one....
19:58: Kelly Wilson: how would csm be compound
19:58: Kelly Wilson: oh well I'll have to ask pete
19:58: Jeremy Dorse: C=compound S=simple M= I don;t know!
19:59: Kelly Wilson: nice try
19:59: Jeremy Dorse: Im thinking if it is in the splinting chapter M may stand for Mobilize
20:00: Kelly Wilson: that's what i was thinking
20:00: Jeremy Dorse: great minds think alike!
20:00: Jeremy Dorse: Where did you come across the acronym
20:00: Kelly Wilson: chapter 16 with splints
20:00: Jeremy Dorse: don't have your book there?
20:00: Justine Holguin has entered the room.
20:00: Jeremy Dorse: I'm curious now
20:01: Kelly Wilson: yes I've been looking
20:01: Jeremy Dorse: go to index...
20:01: Justine Holguin: Hey guys :)
20:01: Jeremy Dorse: Hi Justine
20:01: Kelly Wilson: I did didn't find it, hi justine
20:03: Jeremy Dorse: Justine do you know what Kelly is talking about: C.S.M.
20:03: Jeremy Dorse: ?
20:03: Justine Holguin: CSM?
20:03: Jeremy Dorse: uh huh
20:03: Kelly Wilson: it's in chapter 16
20:04: Justine Holguin: hmmm...
20:04: Sandra Donis has entered the room.
20:04: Jeremy Dorse: Now you both have to find it or I will go nuts
20:04: Kelly Wilson: well does sandra know
20:04: Kelly Wilson: sandra what does csm stand for
20:05: Kelly Wilson: it's in chapter 16
20:05: Sandra Donis: let me check
20:07: Lewis Alva has entered the room.
20:07: Jeremy Dorse: this is our last chat, can you believe how fast it went by....
20:07: Peter Snyder(Ins) has entered the room.
20:07: Justine Holguin: Circulation, sensation, movement?
20:08: Kelly Wilson: thank you justine!
20:08: Jeremy Dorse: is that it?
20:08: Kelly Wilson: where did you find it
20:08: Justine Holguin: I googled it... and found a very reliable always accurate source...
wikipedia :)
20:08: Peter Snyder(Ins): hello, hello, hello! I think my laptop is working now!
20:08: Kelly Wilson: yeah!
20:08: Jeremy Dorse: check vitals....
20:08: Jeremy Dorse: make sure he is responsive!
20:09: Kelly Wilson: haha
20:09: Sandra Donis: I have an AED
20:09: Peter Snyder(Ins): Are there any questions before we get started and YES I have a
pulse! Unlike you Laker fans!!
20:09: Kelly Wilson: oh lol
20:09: Jeremy Dorse: Pete does CSM stand for Circulation, Sensation, Movement?r
20:10: Kelly Wilson: it's in chapter 16
20:10: Justine Holguin: page 212
20:11: Peter Snyder(Ins): seriously what is this connected to?
20:11: Kelly Wilson: splinting guidelines
20:11: Justine Holguin: In splinting, it says to check the CS in the extremities
20:11: Justine Holguin: *CSM
20:12: Peter Snyder(Ins): Good acronym but it won't be on the test......what to always
remember about splinting?
20:12: Justine Holguin: Do not straighten it out
20:13: Sandra Donis: maybe color, sensation, motion???
20:13: Kelly Wilson: stabilize the injury
20:13: Peter Snyder(Ins): Good Justine....The less movement, the better...............our
splinting material isn't close to what the professionals have. Remember, if you have to splint -
preferably in the position that the appendage is in.
20:14: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K. how far have we gotten on burns?
20:14: Jeremy Dorse: first second and third
20:14: Justine Holguin: the pictures are unbearable :(
20:14: Jeremy Dorse: third
20:14: Jeremy Dorse: going for the homerun
20:14: Sandra Donis: lol
20:14: Peter Snyder(Ins): did we talk about the rule of nine?
20:14: Sandra Donis: yes
20:15: Kelly Wilson: reminder please
20:15: Kelly Wilson: never mind got it
20:15: Jeremy Dorse: when ever you multiply 9 by any number the sum of two = 9
20:15: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, this is a test question and it has to do with portions of the
body and a complete bodily reaction to burns.
20:16: Jeremy Dorse: must be different rule...
20:16: Sandra Donis: rule of nine helps to determine the severity of burns
20:16: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K. so we all know the diff. between 1,2,and 3 degree burns and
how to give first aid for them?
20:16: Sandra Donis: yes
20:16: Kelly Wilson: yes
20:16: Sandra Donis: i hope
20:17: Peter Snyder(Ins): Next, reactions to extremes of heat and cold - appropriately, let's
start with HEAT! What is the difference between heat cramps, heat exhaustion, and heat
stroke?
20:18: Jeremy Dorse: heat stroke....R.IP.
20:18: Kelly Wilson: heat cramps are painful muscle spasms
20:19: Kelly Wilson: heat exhaustion is with heavy sweating with normal or above normal
temp
20:19: Kelly Wilson: there are two types of heat stroke
20:19: Kelly Wilson: classis and exertional
20:19: Kelly Wilson: classic
20:20: Peter Snyder(Ins): I'm going to talk about the hypothalamus - a portion of our brain
that regulates the temp. of our body and is extremely important in terms of stabilizing this.....if
this malfunctions or we somehow "will" ourselves to be deprived of H2O, this can cause the
most severe reaction to heat - stroke.
20:20: Peter Snyder(Ins): What are the symptoms of heat stroke?
20:21: Lewis Alva: unresponsiveness
20:21: Justine Holguin: dry skin (wet at first)
20:21: Kelly Wilson: extremely hot skin to touch
20:21: Justine Holguin: confusion
20:21: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes Lewis, what else...good Justine & Kelly......how hot do we
think the body is getting in heat stroke?
20:22: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, what is normal body temp.?
20:22: Kelly Wilson: 98.6
20:22: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes.......and what would we consider running a "fever"?
20:22: Kelly Wilson: over that]
20:23: Justine Holguin: There is a chart that show the temperature during heatstroke can be
anywhere from 105-136?
20:23: Peter Snyder(Ins): Like 99, 100.....well, if our sweating mechanism isn't working, the
temp. goes up to 103 and our vital organs start burning up.....this is why football players &
athletes of all types MUST stay hydrated.
20:24: Peter Snyder(Ins): what portions of the body do we lose most of our heat?
20:24: Kelly Wilson: head
20:24: Sandra Donis: the head
20:24: Jeremy Dorse: bald head
20:24: Peter Snyder(Ins): good, what else?
20:24: Sandra Donis: the feet?
20:24: Kelly Wilson: armpits?
20:24: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes Sandra, what else?
20:25: Jeremy Dorse: I'm with Kelly, armpits...
20:25: Peter Snyder(Ins): hands & extremities....so, what should be done to a victim of heat
stroke?
20:25: Jeremy Dorse: bath water with ice.....
20:25: Kelly Wilson: move to cool place
20:26: Peter Snyder(Ins): somewhere between what you both have stated.
20:26: Kelly Wilson: keep head and shoulders somewhat elevated
20:26: Justine Holguin: remove clothing down to underwear
20:26: Jeremy Dorse: sorry, I shouldn't use an ER I watched last week
20:26: Justine Holguin: CALL 911!!!
20:26: Sandra Donis: spray w/water and vigorous fanning
20:26: Kelly Wilson: call 911
20:26: Sandra Donis: ice packs
20:27: Peter Snyder(Ins): remember this person is in shock and if they are immediately
exposed to very cold (ice water), they could go deeper into shock.....the head region needs
cooling gradually and immediately.
20:27: Kelly Wilson: cool towels
20:27: Kelly Wilson: around neck
20:27: Peter Snyder(Ins): Sandra is correct with spraying - cold towels, take off
clothing...good.
20:27: Justine Holguin: fanning
20:28: Peter Snyder(Ins): if a person has heat exhaustion, what are the symptoms & what
needs to be done?
20:28: Justine Holguin: fatigue
20:28: Kelly Wilson: sweatin, thurst
20:28: Lewis Alva: nausea and dizziness
20:28: Sandra Donis: flu-like symptoms
20:28: Sandra Donis: rapid pulse
20:28: Kelly Wilson: fast heart rate
20:28: Lewis Alva: pale skin
20:28: Justine Holguin: Do they always have sweating?
20:28: Sandra Donis: profuse sweating
20:29: Kelly Wilson: move victim out of heat
20:29: Peter Snyder(Ins): Kellly was correct way back......yes they are sweating, so this is
functioning - good!
20:29: Justine Holguin: In a case like my brother, his body could not sweat, but he had
chronis heat exhaustion....
20:29: Kelly Wilson: give cool liquids
20:29: Sandra Donis: wet towels
20:29: Kelly Wilson: and electrolytes
20:29: Sandra Donis: call 9 11
20:29: Peter Snyder(Ins): what if a victim isn't conscious, what about cool liquids?
20:29: Sandra Donis: no
20:30: Kelly Wilson: spray them with cool water
20:30: Sandra Donis: no liquids
20:30: Justine Holguin: sponge
20:30: Sandra Donis: wet towels
20:30: Kelly Wilson: or sponge
20:30: Peter Snyder(Ins): And, regarding electrolytes, this would have an impact on our 3rd
category.....heat cramps, which are what?
20:30: Kelly Wilson: muscle spasms
20:30: Justine Holguin: painful ones :(
20:30: Jeremy Dorse: bananas
20:31: Sandra Donis: they have potassiun
20:31: Kelly Wilson: i hate muscle spasms
20:31: Sandra Donis: potasium
20:32: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes to Kelly - these are INVOLUNTARY.....muscle spasms because
of improper electrolyte balance - usually between potassium and _____?
20:32: Kelly Wilson: calcium
20:32: Jeremy Dorse: chloride4
20:32: Sandra Donis: sodium
20:32: Peter Snyder(Ins): Sandra is correct,,,,,,so is Kelly.
20:33: Sandra Donis: we consume too much salt
20:33: Kelly Wilson: i hate salt
20:33: Peter Snyder(Ins): Now the opposite end of spectrum.....extreme cold - what is this
called?
20:33: Jeremy Dorse: hypothermia
20:34: Kelly Wilson: frostbite
20:34: Peter Snyder(Ins): good - Jeremy....now, what are the stages of hypothermia?
20:35: Lewis Alva: shivering
20:35: Kelly Wilson: change in mental status, shivering, cool abdomen, low core body temp
20:35: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, again this is regulated by the hypothalamus....Lewis is right
for first degree
20:35: Kelly Wilson: status
20:36: Jeremy Dorse: In stage 1, body temperature drops by 1-2°C below normal
temperature (35-38°C). Mild to strong shivering occurs.[1][2] The victim is unable to perform
complex tasks with the hands; the hands become numb. Blood vessels in the outer extremities
constrict, lessening heat loss to the outside air. Breathing becomes quick and shallow. Goose
bumps form, raising body hair on end in an attempt to create an insulating layer of air around
the body (which is of limited use in humans due to lack of sufficient hair, but useful in other
species). Often, a person will experience a warm sensation, as if they have recovered, but they
are in fact heading into Stage 2. Another test to see if the person is entering stage 2 is if they
are unable to touch their thumb with their little finger; this is the first stage of muscles not
working. In stage 2, body temperature drops by 2-4°C. Shivering becomes more violent.
Muscle mis-coordination becomes apparent.[1][2][3] Movements are slow and labored,
accompanied by a stumbling pace and mild confusion, although the victim may appear alert.
Surface blood vessels contract further as the body focuses its remaining resources on keeping
the vital organs warm. The victim becomes pale. Lips, ears, fingers and toes may become blue.
In stage 3, body temperature drops below approximately 32 °C (89.6 °F). Shivering usually
stops.[1][2] Difficulty speaking, sluggish thinking, and amnesia starts to appear; inability to
use hands and stumbling is also usually present. Cellular metabolic processes shut down.
Below 30 °C (86.0 °F), the exposed skin becomes blue and puffy, muscle coordination
becomes very poor, walking becomes almost impossible, and the victim exhibits
incoherent/irrational behavior including terminal burrowing or even a stupor. Pulse and
respiration rates decrease significantly but fast heart rates (ventricular tachycardia, atrial
fibrillation) can occur. Major organs fail. Clinical death occurs. Because of decreased cellular
activity in stage 3 hypothermia, the body will actually take longer to undergo brain death.
20:36: Jeremy Dorse: sorry...
20:36: Jeremy Dorse: didn't mean to put all that in
20:36: Lewis Alva: lol
20:36: Peter Snyder(Ins): Kelly has added something that starts to get into 2nd degree
hypothermia.....well, Jeremy types VERY fast!
20:36: Kelly Wilson: did you just paste that in?
20:36: Sandra Donis: extremely fast
20:36: Jeremy Dorse: love that wikipedia
20:37: Justine Holguin: The book describes that mild victims will have "the umbles"
20:37: Kelly Wilson: what's that
20:37: Sandra Donis: fumble
20:37: Sandra Donis: stumble
20:37: Sandra Donis: grumble
20:37: Kelly Wilson: oh got it
20:38: Sandra Donis: and mumble
20:38: Peter Snyder(Ins): O.K. so "beyond the wikki"......what is happening here is that
during "exposure" the body goes into shock and the person begins to lose reasoning - 2nd
degree.
20:38: Peter Snyder(Ins): This is why it is very important that in cold climates what MUST
be covered?
20:38: Kelly Wilson: head
20:38: Justine Holguin: head
20:39: Sandra Donis: hands and feet
20:39: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes.....3rd degree hypothermia is when the person passes
out.....how do we care for "exposure"?
20:39: Kelly Wilson: get out of cold
20:39: Kelly Wilson: take off wet clothing
20:40: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes - to a warm area, what else?
20:40: Sandra Donis: handle them gently
20:40: Jeremy Dorse: the body needs to be warmed from within....
20:40: Kelly Wilson: cover with warm blankets and such
20:40: Jeremy Dorse: core first..
20:40: Kelly Wilson: lay in flat position
20:40: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, careful about how to re-warm.......external first
20:40: Kelly Wilson: call 911
20:41: Peter Snyder(Ins): remember we don't want more shock problems; so, gradual re-
warm and give warm liquids when?
20:41: Kelly Wilson: I always heard that another body can warm up another
20:42: Kelly Wilson: give liquids when conscious
20:42: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes, Kelly, this is true because this is conduction........what are
the other types of heat loss or gain?
20:43: Sandra Donis: warm water immersion
20:43: Peter Snyder(Ins): There's a good photo in the powerpoint that you can print
out....convection, evaporation, exhalation, etc.
20:44: Kelly Wilson: shivering is a way to rewarm the body, right?
20:45: Peter Snyder(Ins): Yes, shivering is the muscles way to generate heat.....when these
come in "waves" the person is in second degree hypothermia.
20:45: Peter Snyder(Ins): On to diabetic coma vs. insulin shock.....what is the difference
and how do we treat these?
20:46: Lewis Alva: diabetic coma is not enough insulin, insulin shock is too much
20:46: Sandra Donis: one is too much sugar the other is lack of
20:46: Peter Snyder(Ins): good Lewis.....what does the person look like?
20:47: Justine Holguin: welll. when there is not enough, they are pale
20:47: Peter Snyder(Ins): well, the symptoms aren't that diff. from heat exhaustion
20:48: Sandra Donis: in low blood sugar, it is a sudden onset, anger, sweating, hunger
20:48: Peter Snyder(Ins): If a person doesn't have enough insulin, (hyperglycemic), can you
administer the insulin?
20:49: Kelly Wilson: usually
20:50: Jeremy Dorse: I'm comfortable with needles I would, but the book says with
permission preferably Medical personnel
20:50: Peter Snyder(Ins): Next question, if a person is hypoglycemic, what do you need to
give to him(her)?
20:50: Justine Holguin: fast acting sugars
20:50: Sandra Donis: glucose tabs
20:50: Sandra Donis: or gel
20:50: Justine Holguin: Oj raisins...
20:50: Sandra Donis: or injectible meds
20:51: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes and yes to sandra and justine.....probably not a good idea to
administer the hypo.
20:51: Peter Snyder(Ins): hypodermic needle
20:52: Peter Snyder(Ins): Now, the random question time: how to stop a bloody nose?
20:52: Kelly Wilson: tilt head back
20:52: Sandra Donis: pinch
20:52: Jeremy Dorse: stand on your head....
20:52: Sandra Donis: the nostrils
20:52: Kelly Wilson: and pinch thank you sandra
20:52: Sandra Donis: lean forward
20:53: Peter Snyder(Ins): good.....what should a first aider do for a person who is
experiencing siezures?
20:53: Sandra Donis: call 911
20:53: Peter Snyder(Ins): first aid?
20:53: Justine Holguin: cushion the head, loosen clothing, roll onto side
20:54: Jeremy Dorse: is putting a stick in the mouth old school?
20:54: Justine Holguin: look for a medical tag
20:54: Peter Snyder(Ins): nothing in the mouth, Justine is correct.....next, what to do for a
sucking wound of the chest?
20:54: Sandra Donis: do not remove
20:54: Peter Snyder(Ins): next, what does the acronym RICE stand for?
20:55: Sandra Donis: rest
20:55: Sandra Donis: ice
20:55: Kelly Wilson: ice
20:55: Jeremy Dorse: Ice, Compression
20:55: Jeremy Dorse: elebate
20:55: Sandra Donis: elevation
20:55: Jeremy Dorse: elevate
20:55: Peter Snyder(Ins): good....if a victim complains of severe thirst, should you give
him(her) water?
20:55: Sandra Donis: no
20:56: Peter Snyder(Ins): What is frostbite and what is first aid for it?
20:57: Peter Snyder(Ins): The difference between a sprain and a strain is?
20:57: Sandra Donis: frostbite- when tissue freezes
20:57: Justine Holguin: frostbite aid: get out of cold, remove wet clothing
20:57: Peter Snyder(Ins): sandra is correct.....First Aid for a snake bite includes?
20:57: Jeremy Dorse: sprain is ligament
20:57: Jeremy Dorse: Strain is muscle
20:57: Kelly Wilson: it is the freezing of tissues
20:57: Sandra Donis: compression
20:58: Sandra Donis: do not elevate area
20:58: Kelly Wilson: tie of above bite
20:58: Kelly Wilson: off
20:58: Peter Snyder(Ins): what part of the body is affected in an anaphylactic reaction by
the victim of a sting?
20:58: Sandra Donis: possibly everywhere
20:59: Sandra Donis: respiratory system
20:59: Kelly Wilson: lungs
20:59: Peter Snyder(Ins): sandra's 2nd response is correct. What needs to be done
differently for a chemical burn?
20:59: Sandra Donis: rinse area with low pressure
20:59: Peter Snyder(Ins): when is it allowable to move a victim?
20:59: Kelly Wilson: let the victim wash themselves
21:00: Kelly Wilson: remove clothing
21:00: Kelly Wilson: flush 20 min more
21:01: Kelly Wilson: cover area to prevent infection
21:01: Peter Snyder(Ins): yes, yes, yes for Kelly about chem. burn well, I think that's about
it......are there any questions
21:01: Jeremy Dorse: will we be taking test first thing?
21:01: Justine Holguin: So what will the format for class this week look like
21:01: Kelly Wilson: we bring the envelope thursday right
21:01: Sandra Donis: is there anything is specific we should know for the test?
21:01: Peter Snyder(Ins): #2 pencil, scan-tron, stamped, self-addressed envelope....yes
written final first.
21:02: Sandra Donis: and 10 bucks, check or cash?
21:02: Jeremy Dorse: 10
21:02: Kelly Wilson: how much of a curve was the on the midterm
21:02: Jeremy Dorse: Panera Bread?
21:02: Sandra Donis: lol
21:02: Justine Holguin: haha we will see :)
21:03: Justine Holguin: any particular favorites?
21:03: Jeremy Dorse: jk...
21:03: Justine Holguin: no seriously though
21:03: Justine Holguin: if i wake up early enough
21:03: Sandra Donis: just good stuff
21:03: Sandra Donis: jk
21:03: Jeremy Dorse: I love sourdough
21:03: Peter Snyder(Ins): $5.00 for ea. card (1 first aid, 1 CPR).....checks to American Red
Cross..........I'm lost here about this humor - must be an inside joke.
21:03: Justine Holguin: bagels?
21:04: Kelly Wilson: never had one from there
21:04: Peter Snyder(Ins): I think I sent out midterm grades, correct?
21:04: Justine Holguin: mmmmm... well i hope i wae up on time!
21:04: Jeremy Dorse: Pete, I will not have a grade submitted correct?
21:04: Kelly Wilson: yes, but what was the curve
21:04: Jeremy Dorse: they did drop me right?
21:05: Peter Snyder(Ins): c.u. all thurs., feel free to em. or call...off the top of my head 33
above = A; 30-32 = B; 20-30 = C

				
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