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VIEWS: 49 PAGES: 24

									   Ethiopia Web Design Interviews Jerry
                 West.
 Interviewer: So how is your website doing? Are you getting as
many hits as you would like? Are you a web-master concerned about
maximum web exposure for your clients? Well then maybe you need to
spend some time thinking about Search Engine Optimization. Well
that’s just what we’re here today to talk about with Jerry West. Jerry is
a Search Engine Specialist with a website dedicated to making search
engines work for you. Welcome Jerry.

Jerry West: Thank you.

Interviewer: And Jerry your website makes some pretty strong
claims or even accusations about search engine gurus as you call them
and you say that there is a lot of misinformation floating around in
cyberspace about search engine strategies; can you explain?

Jerry West: Yeah; there’s--there’s a ton--basically I’ve been an SEO
for 10 years and some of my favorite misconceptions out there is well-
-the--the [vaunted] guaranteed placements or guaranteed listing--
many SEO firms will go through and--and state this claim and what
will happen is they’ll either target keyword phrases that generate so
little traffic that yes, you’ll be at the top but you’ll receive no traffic, no
sales; therefore your money is wasted. Or, they’ll offer you a
guarantee and this is a great guarantee; the guarantee goes like this.
We guarantee that we’ll do the work, get you traffic, or we’ll keep
doing the work for you for free until we--we get there. The problem
with that guarantee--while it sounds good--it says nothing about
getting your money back; it’s basically holding your money hostage. If
an SEO can't get it right the first time they’re not going to get it right
the second, third, or fourth time, and what ends up happening you end
up firing the SEO firm, they keep your money, and you try to find
someone else to go to.

      Another one is still even though they’ve--they’ve been dead for
about six years is meta-tags. People think that Search Engine
Optimization lives and dies with meta-tags. They’ve been dead since
2000. Google has never read them but people just for some reason
think that meta-tags are--are the way to go through to get their
website highly indexed and highly placed and that’s just not the case.
       There’s a few others that--that really can--can go through and--
and hit you; for example--well right now Google is really big on linking
okay. It’s been said that the more links you have the better--the
better you do with Google. So people will say well in order for me to
trick Google I’ll do a three-way link exchange, meaning I link to you,
you link to a third party, and that third party links to me. That way
Google can't detect that we’re doing a link exchange. That in itself is
what--what we call a mind crime meaning that’s false information.
Google can detect these; they find them and they punish the websites
that go through and do them. Mind crime can be defined as well
essentially I talk about on the website how certain search engine gurus
are out there lying on purpose and the reason why they’re doing this is
they want to protect their business. They don’t want the threat of
competition; therefore they spread misinformation to lead a lot of
people astray so their business stays protected--[inaudible] launching
a whole site dedicated to educate people on the real power of SEO,
how to do it, the right path, and to insure that you don’t get led
astray--led astray by these basically misconceptions and outright lies.

Interviewer: Wow; well it seems to be important at this point Jerry
to--since you started giving us some definitions, there seems to be a
whole separate language for the search engine area of expertise, so
maybe we can go over some of the terminology before we get into the
details.

Jerry West: Sure.

Interviewer: You mentioned mind crime; can you go ahead and
describe that again--mind crime?

Jerry West: Well a mind crime is--it’s a brand new term that’s been
coined--it’s just been a few years old and just essentially it’s--it’s when
a community secretly holds valuable information in order to further
their own success and they purposely lie to outsiders by spreading this
information like meta-tags and three-way linking and such so they’re
able to grow their own fortunes without the threat of competition.
That’s the bottom line is they don’t want competition, so they will--.
You know I’ve talked to countless people who have gone to seminars
or bought e-Books or took--took an SEO course. They all say the--say
the same thing; I--I did exactly what they said to do but it didn’t work
or I did what they said and my site got banned. Well why is that? Well
they--they--that happened because they didn’t tell you the truth. They
do it unfortunately on purpose.



                                     2
Interviewer: Well that’s scary. How about meta-tags; you
mentioned them? I’m a layperson, again what--what is meta-tags?

Jerry West: Meta-tags were first created to kind of--well catalog the
internet. When search engines and I mean this is back--back in you
know ’94 and ’95 over 10 years ago; they--you know it was--it was
very similar to the--the card catalog when you went to the library.
There was an area to put in a description so that the search engine
would know what your website was about. But it had a--a keyword
meta-tag where you would put your keyword phrases in there and so
the search engine was better able to understand exactly all the
phrases that it should rank you for. Well this was a very good idea; the
problem is what unethical people did. They would go through and--and
put in keyword phrases in their meta-tags that had nothing to do with
their website. If they had a website selling a--you know synthetic
motor--motor oil but they would go through and you know put in like
Brittney Spears or they would put in some other unrelated keyword
phrases in an attempt to get traffic albeit unrelated traffic but traffic
none--nonetheless to their website.

       What ended up happening is this became--became such a
widespread problem. You know when Google stormed on the scene
you know they came out in ’98 and they--they basically took off in
2000; they knew that if they were going to be a qualified search
engine they could not read meta-tags and basically take--take over
the market share. That’s one of the big reasons why Google did so
well--is because they ignored the meta-tags and just scored on not
only what the website said but what other websites said about that
page. But essentially meta-tag in itself it’s a waste of time. Websites
are not ranked well just by using meta-tags. Sure, Yahoo and MSN still
use them but they have downgraded the use of them [and relying on
them] to a--to a degree that you know just--just doesn’t make sense
to rely on them.

Interviewer: All right; so Google is a search engine. Now is Yahoo a
directory or a search engine?

Jerry West: Yahoo is actually both.

Interviewer: Okay.

Jerry West: Yahoo was a directory for many, many years and their--
the search portal--they used for years was a search engine or a
search--search database called [Ink Me]; they’re also located in the


                                    3
San Francisco Bay area right there with Yahoo and also Google is right
there, too. Yahoo was a great directory and they charged a fee to be
listed. And they decided that search was starting to be--become very,
very powerful, so they actually merged--they actually had a very nice
agreement with Google back in 2000--and in fact it happened on
Independence Day of the US--July 4th 2000. Google started supplying
Yahoo their search results and this--this--this occurred for about--
about two years until Yahoo went out and buy [Ink Me] outright, so
now when you do a search in Yahoo it’s Yahoo Search--no longer
Google--no longer Google but also is many people have the--the
misconception. Again we got back to the term mind crime; they have
the--the misconception that getting a directory listing is going to give
them a nice placement in--in Yahoo.

Interviewer: Sure.

Jerry West: That’s not true.

Interviewer: Not true? [Emphasis Added] Hmm; okay.

Jerry West: No; because what happens--if you go to Yahoo right now
you’ll see that there is--it’s defaults to the search box. You have to
actually click on directory to search the directory and very--very few
people go through and do that route. In fact, our testing shows that
the average site that we--we have over 300 test domains that we
have, the average site that we have in the Yahoo directory gets 64
referrals from Yahoo directory. Now you’re paying $300 a year to get
into Yahoo directory at 64 referrals? That’s a very expensive cost per
click.

Interviewer: Well why don’t you name off a few of the other search
engines that actually can compete with Google in your opinion.

Jerry West: Well there’s only two and that is Yahoo and MSN.

Interviewer: MSN, okay.

Jerry West: All the others--for example Ask Jeeves gets--has so little
market share that it’s not worth doing anything with those; it’s just
the three--Google, MSN, and Yahoo. And people will always point all
the time that you know Ask Jeeves has a six-percent market share and
that’s--that’s not actually true. What happens is these numbers are
often times convoluted by the media; you know we always rely on the
media to--to tell us the truth.


                                   4
Interviewer: Sure. [Laughs]

Jerry West: They don’t always do a very good job. What I look for in
the 300 test domains that we--we go through and use, we look at
actual click-through(s). We don’t care about searches, okay; the
reason why we don’t care about that is if you’re in business to get
traffic from the search engine you’re more concerned over a click to
your website than you are a search that’s performed. I’ll give you an
example; if you look at Yahoo--when you do a search with Yahoo
there’s a lot of stuff that comes up, a lot of ads, a lot of extra things
that are--are on the screen that can cause distraction.

Interviewer: Right.

Jerry West: You get to use the click somewhere else besides this--a
search result. That’s what we’re looking at here is--is the percentage
of the--of the community that gets the actual traffic.

Interviewer: Okay; all right I can tell you have a lot to say about a
lot of these. Let’s just go quickly through a few more terms, just so we
know what--what you’re talking about okay.

Jerry West: Certainly.

Interviewer: The first one is ad sense.

Jerry West: Well ad sense essentially is--this is a part of Google and
Google launched their advertising platform called Adwords several
years ago. And just after they launched Adwords they allowed website
owners to host Google’s ads on their own pages. So for example, if
you had a website you could allow Google to show their ads on your--
on your web page. Now Google is very, very smart; they can actually
in less--less than a second they can spider your page and display ads
that actually are relevant to the content on that page.

Interviewer: Hmm; that makes sense.

Jerry West: Now what Google will do for you--if someone clicks on
an ad Google will do a web share with you. For example, if the
advertiser paid $1 for that click-through, so they were willing to pay
$1 for it. Of course, the actual ratios aren’t know but we’ll just go
through and use an example--Google would give you 60-cents of that
$1 and they would keep 40. As an incentive to keep driving more


                                    5
traffic to your web pages, so their revenue goes up and so does yours.
And there’s been a lot of people who have made an awful lot of money
with ad sense and there’s been a lot more people who have tried it and
failed.

Interviewer: Okay; ad sense--. Page rank--why is page rank
important?

Jerry West: Page rank--if--if you use the Google toolbar you’ll know
that page rank with Google will show up as a little green bar indicator.
I refer it--I refer to it as the green bar addiction. It essentially is
people are so--so worried about page rank; what page rank is--it
essentially is--it’s Google’s way of grading a page in its
authoritativeness or its importance.

Interviewer: Okay.

Jerry West: It’s a scale from zero to ten--of course ten being the
highest. The site that graded at a ten would be like Yahoo, Google,
and such; eights and nines would be CNN, ESPN; you know the--the
really big names that you will always hear about. But people have for
some reason just realized that they have to have a high page rank in
order to make it, and while that was true about--about two years ago
this is another mind crime issue right here. It’s not the case anymore;
in fact if you go through and do searches throughout Google you’ll
notice if you click on--on each result in the top ten almost every time
you’ll find one or two sites that have a zero, one, or two page rank and
maybe wonder well how can that be you know--they’re so low. That’s
because Google has more than 110 different pieces of criteria that go
into their algorithm and page rank is just one of those.

Interviewer: Okay.

Jerry West: And what people should also realize too is this
information--Google is very protective of what they have because they
have the larger share of the market--of the market; they’re protective
of how their algorithm works. So what they’ll show you is actually
about four to six months old; it’s not current information so that--that
page rank that you see is not current. It’s not accurate and that’s why
a lot of people make very, very poor decisions in terms of who they
partner with or who they will accept advertising from because of--well
I’m not doing business with these guys; they have a low page rank.
Well that’s not really a good way to do business.



                                    6
Interviewer: It’s not a good indicator at that point?

Jerry West: No; no, it’s not because it’s--it’s old information and
people--like I said before, they’re just you know--it’s an addiction.
They’re--they’re just so fueled by this and they’re--they’re led astray
in terms of their vision and why they’re in business to--to begin with.

Interviewer: Okay; well we can talk more about that later. Why
don’t you tell me--well I’ve heard of the Maryland--University of
Maryland Terps but I’ve never heard of SERPS.

Jerry West: [Laughs] Yeah; the--the term SERPS--S-E-R-P-S--it
stands for Search Engine Results Pages--and you’ll hear SEO(s) talk
about SERPS all the time and all that references to is when you do a
search and you click on the search button what displays--that’s the
SERPS.

Interviewer: Okay.

Jerry West: Very--very simple and straightforward answer.

Interviewer: Okay; black hat, white hat--you talk about that on your
website. They sound like cowboys to me.

Jerry West: Black hat and white hat, yes; basically that is--it’s pretty
much understood you know. The black hats are the bad guys; the
white--the white hats are the good guys. In terms of SEO, a black hat
would be one who would engage in techniques that would violate the
search engine guidelines. For example, Google has various guidelines
that you can't do certain things and black hats will violate those in
terms of they’re generating more traffic quickly. Without getting too
technical there’s a term called cloaking that’s been out for years and
years and years and essentially what it refers to is you’re able to show
the search engine one page and show the visitor another. Now how it
works is this; we all know that search engines love content. They don’t
particularly like java script, graphics, tables and such--

Interviewer: Right.

Jerry West: So what a black hat will do is it will create a page that’s
very content heavy and it will also have a page that’s very much--has
flash, java script, very much intuitive, very beautiful page. What will
happen is the search engine will come to index the site and the
cloaking script to the text the IP Address. And it says okay; let’s see


                                    7
what IP Address is--this is. Oh this is MSN; so it will give the MSN-
[bot] a page specifically optimized for MSN. So MSN indexes this page,
it ranks well; now you or I click on this listing. The cloaking script
detects that we’re not a search engine spider; we’re a real person--
we’re a browser. So the search engine--the--the cloaking script will
serve the very beautiful page.

Interviewer: Hmm.

Jerry West: So that’s how cloaking works; the term cloaking in my
view--it’s a wrong term.

Interviewer: Okay.

Jerry West: It should be called IP Delivery.

Interviewer: Okay.

Jerry West: Now let me give you a better idea why cloaking or IP
Delivery was--was--was first introduced back. I helped--helped write a
script back in ’96 for Ford Motor Company. What they wanted to do is
if someone let’s say in--in Japan went to www.ford.com--

Interviewer: Okay.

Jerry West: Well Ford didn’t want them to go to www.ford.com and
have it click on the flag for the Japanese version of the site. Instead
they wanted an automatic detection of where this person was logging
in from and giving them the site closest to them. So the IP Delivery or
the IP Detection would say okay, this is not--this is an IP address from
Japan. We serve them automatically the Japanese version of the
website. That’s how IP Delivery or cloaking started and that was the
main reason for it. It became popular because it was very easy to go
through and manipulate the search engines and show one page,
display another and so forth. The--the whole concept behind it is fine;
it’s the use of it that’s wrong. And the--the biggest problem is the
content won't match. They’ll have a page that’s highly ranked for an
off-topic and they’ll--they’ll switch them to another--very much a--a
bait and switch type of situation, you know. You search for--we used
the--the example before--you--you search for a motor oil substitute
and you’re rerouted to a pornography site. This happened--was it ’00--
was it ’01, there was some hijacking done to the Smithsonian page so
people would think they--they were going to the Smithsonian website;
instead they got routed to a pornography site.


                                   8
Interviewer: So if the--

Jerry West: That was a huge problem. In fact it actually led to
legislation that President Clinton put in that you could not use
trademark terms in your meta-tags. You--you had--you had grade
school children in class doing searches and the teacher would--what
they thought was the Smithsonian page--

Interviewer: Right, right.

Jerry West: --they’d be redirected to a porn site.

Interviewer: And those were the black hats behind all of that?

Jerry West: Exactly, exactly.

Interviewer: Okay; so the white hats--the white hats ride on their
horses and save the day or--?

Jerry West: Well what white hats basically--they--they built websites
the--the old-fashioned way. They’re all static; some--and they obey all
the rules. It may take them months or years to go through and
generate you know good quality traffic but they--they do so that they
follow every step; they don’t violate any rules or any terms. And that’s
the biggest difference between--between the white hat and the black
hat; the black hat will use very, very shady techniques to generate
traffic while the white hats will go through and do everything that’s
clean and pure to insure that--that you know if--if for example Matt
Cutts from Google would walk in and you know look at your site and
he would go through and give it his blessing. Whereas the black hats
would make sure that Matt Cutts couldn’t find it for--for you know--for
any reason. Just you know Matt Cutts leads the--the Spam Fighting
Team at Google. That’s his job.

Interviewer: Oh okay; good to know, okay. Density--density?

Jerry West: Density--what density refers to is often times called
keyword density--is it’s the percentage of the use of the keyword
phrase on the page. Example would be you have a 500 page--I’m
sorry, a 500 word document and the keyword phrase that you use--is
used--on the page five times. You would have a one-percent keyword
density for that page.



                                   9
Interviewer: Okay.

Jerry West: This is also where a lot of people go through and get
confused and they go I need a 10--12-percent keyword density; you
know that’s--you don’t want to do that. Your keyword density should
be--well in fact, I’m one to always state you want to be very careful of
who you listen to and where you get your information because I’m a
big proponent of you build a quality site first and the traffic will come
naturally just because of how--how you built it, as long as you have a
very good SEO foundation.

       I’ll give you some quick numbers here that in fact we got
through and we pull and we--we research and target the--all the major
engines very, very closely. For example, the--the density in the
content itself in Google has been about one to two-percent over the
last eight months. Go over to MSN and MSN ranges from two to four-
percent and over at Yahoo it ranges from two to five-percent. So the--
with those numbers you can basically state--is well if you’re within two
to three-percent you’re going to be okay. You start getting above that
and the search engine will think that you’re what’s called spamming.
You’re trying to go through and keyword stuff that pays to make the
page increase. I’ve got--I’ve got data that shows that if you go
through and--and make those numbers too high you’ll start to fall in
Google because Google looks at those numbers very, very closely and-
-and they want to make sure that the page is relevant. They don’t
want you know someone going to the search results pages and
finding--finding garbage.

Interviewer: That’s interesting; okay last but certainly not least--
because I’m sure many more of these terms will come up during our
conversation, but Search Engine Marketing.

Jerry West: Search Engine Marketing--also called SEM--we have
Search Engine Optimization, SEO--Search Engine Marketing will
encompass pay per click and that acronym is PPC and you know all the
major engines have a way to go through and--and show
advertisements on the SERPS, the Search Engine Results Pages.
Search Engine Marketing also includes affiliate marketing and I’ll
briefly touch on that. Essentially what--what affiliate marketing is--is
you sell other people’s products for commission. An example would be
Sony--Sony has an affiliate program and the average payout is about
eight-percent, so if you through your marketing efforts send a visitor
to Sony and that person buys Sony would give you eight-percent of
that sale. It’s very similar to what we do every day; you know people


                                    10
ask us all the time, you know where do you get your hair cut? Who is
your doctor, and so on and so forth? And we give out our
recommendations but very rarely do we get a check for 20-percent of
the surgery that your doctor does right? But affiliate marketing--

Interviewer: Wouldn’t that be nice?

Jerry West: --allows you to get a commission based upon your
recommendation and that’s why affiliate marketing has really been a
powerful source in SEM or Search Engine Marketing.

Interviewer: Okay; well now that that’s--we’re through with some of
this terminology you’re free to toss around those words at will. So it’s
all about getting traffic and getting to the top of the list, so Jerry what
do we need to know before we find someone to help us with SEO?

Jerry West: Good question; like I said earlier, I’ve been doing--doing
this for 10 years and a lot of people have--well let me back up. The
first thing that you want to do is actually sit down and make a plan on
what you want to accomplish. I know that may sound kind of hokey
but most people don’t have a vision or a plan of action, so they get
into a web business without any type of direction and they wonder why
in six months they haven’t made--made any money or they may be in
the hole--because they don’t know where they want to go. So get
down on paper what it is that you want to accomplish. And therefore
you can then start to understand who your target audience is,
understand who your public is; if you have to do surveys, do surveys.

       Once we have that understanding you can begin to do keyword
research, starting to understand what people are searching for--you
know www.wordtracker.com has a very nice database where you can
go through and find out what people are searching for. You want to
insure that the traffic that comes to your website is traffic that will
buy. Don’t get suckered into the thought of I have to get a ton of
traffic; I have to throw stuff up on the wall and just see what sticks.
No; I don’t--I’m against that philosophy. I’m of the philosophy of you
drill down and you find out exactly what people who are deep into the
buying cycle--back up here to the buying cycle for--for a moment. The
buying cycle can be anywhere from someone doing initial research to
doing extensive research to the point where they’re ready to buy. If
you bring someone to your website who is just doing the initial
research the chances of them buying are very, very slim. If you bring
someone in who is at the very end of the buying cycle--for example a-



                                    11
-you know the actual Sony component, the actual part number--that’s
someone who is looking to buy right?

Interviewer: Right.

Jerry West: But someone who just types in DVD player--that
probably is not someone who is looking to buy right now, so you
wanted to insure that your time, effort, and advertising go into
bringing people in who are at the very end of that buying cycle. Sure,
you’ll get people who are at the beginning but the ones that you’re
targeting--that you’re spending the most amount of your time are
those ones who are ready to buy.

       There’s other areas you want to go through and look at too. And
those are website design to insure that it’s user-friendly, the copy or
the words on the page make sense; this is where SEO(s) really have a
hard time. They go through and they--they sprinkle keyword phrases
all through their text. [Laughs] Then you go back and read the text
and it doesn’t make any sense. People read it and they go ah, this
doesn’t make any sense. Yes; they have a number one ranking but if
the user is not going to convert into a buy it’s not worth it is it? And
that’s where people get confused.

       So if I can give any advice that--that’s really taken today and
that is you want to insure that your traffic is qualified traffic.

Interviewer: Okay.

Jerry West: Now you’ll start to understand or look at web logs and
that is it’s detailed information about the people who come to your
website, how they got there, how long they stayed, what pages they
saw, what page they left on; this is key information so you can
understand--wait a minute; 68-percent of my visitors are leaving off
this page and they’re not buying. I need to go and do something with
that page to--to insure that my conversion ratios will be--will be
better. Sometimes it’s not about getting more traffic; it’s actually
doing something with the traffic you already have coming to your
website.

Interviewer: And this is the job of the SEO?

Jerry West: This--this can be--you--this is more of an SEO/SEM,
someone who has good experience marketing, copyrighting--there are
some fantastic SEO(s) out there that have great experience in all


                                    12
aspects of marketing. This is not just about driving traffic. This is
actually taking that traffic and getting them to buy because seriously
that’s all that matters at the end right; how often does the cash
register ring?

Interviewer: Right, right.

Jerry West: That’s--that’s what we’re--what we’re here for right?

Interviewer: Okay; so just to recap--before we find an SEO we need
to have a good idea of what our goals are, we need to know who is our
target audience, and then the SEO can help us find out what people
are searching for, do some keyword research into our particular
product or website, help us with design, and make sure there’s
qualified traffic coming to our website?

Jerry West: Exactly; if you have a very good understanding of what
you want this will help the SEO do their job better and one thing you
want to make sure that you do is once you pick out a very good SEO--
let them do their job. You know--you know too often we--we try to go
through and you know micro-manage the people that we outsource to
and--and that can lead to--to a disaster very, very quickly.

Interviewer: Now you mentioned the website designers that actually
sprinkle the keywords throughout the--the website just to try to get
that traffic. Can you--can you give us any examples of you know some
really out there websites that may have had that happen?

Jerry West: I don’t have any off the top of my head because the
ones that--that I’ve--I’ve used for years as examples, they’ve--they’ve
all changed their copy but I’m sure everyone has seen them out there.
They’ll read the actual text and it’s--and you can tell it’s keyword stuff
because there’s just--

Interviewer: It doesn’t make a lot of sense?

Jerry West: Not only that; it--it--every other word is bolded or in a
different color and it makes it very, very much--very unreadable and it
just--it does not convert well.

Interviewer: All right; so how do I find someone? Do I Google them
if I’m looking for an SEO? [Laughs]




                                    13
Jerry West: You know it’s funny you should--you should say that.
That’s probably the best place to--to start, because again if the search
engine guru is not high listed then why are you bothering trying to hire
them to do the same for you? That’s one place to start; the second is
talk to associates, talk to--if you have a good relationship of not
necessarily with your competitors but with people close to your
industry ask them who they would recommend. You know sometimes
it’s not always going with the biggest firm, but someone who has--I
mean there’s many SEO(s) who work out of their home who are very,
very good and will do as good of a job or better than you’d get from a
very large SEO firm. It’s--it’s basically--it’s--there’s a few components;
one would be your budget, two would be the time that you need to see
results, and three is going to be your industry too. You know if--if
you’re trying to crack into the casino industry it’s not really going to
matter who you hire; it’s going to be very, very expensive and it will
take a long time to do. But if you have a revolutionary product that
you want to get out there on--on the market, almost any SEO can go
through and help you get exposure and start bringing in traffic.

Interviewer: Okay.

Jerry West: I would probably ask three questions--three key
questions. One, ask them what their methodology is and that’s
basically what methods they use; two, you want to ask them of course
how long they’ve been doing SEO; and third ask them if they’re
certified.

Interviewer: Oh there’s actually a certification?

Jerry West: And most really good SEO(s) are going to be certified
and what that means is they went to a--a higher up company and they
learned the basics, the intermediary areas and also the advanced
techniques to do proper SEO.

Interviewer: Okay; good information--well it’s no secret that
internet and technology has changed the way we market you know.
Everyone and every business has a website now days and they’re all
vying for attention in the marketplace and obviously this has become a
major portion of our advertising budget. You can target your audience
so much more specifically and how--can you give us an idea of what
percentage of the advertising budget this is taking up at this point?

Jerry West: It--it really depends upon the company or the--or the
individual who is doing the advertising online. It’s--it’s been growing at


                                    14
a rate that’s just--it’s almost doubling you know every single year.
For--for a Fortune 500 firm the numbers that I’ve seen range between
13 and 22-percent.

Interviewer: Wow.

Jerry West: That they’re now spending to go through and do not just
online marketing but this is also taking care of their website
maintenance and such so it’s--it’s--if you went back to 2000 most
Fortune 500 companies were spending you know one, two-percent of
their overall budget and now we’re seeing that really escalate and
even--even just the paid per click numbers are--are almost doubling
every year in terms of money spent.

Interviewer: So Search Engine Marketing has really become a whole
new area of marketing and advertising; that’s interesting.

Jerry West: It has; it’s--it’s now being considered a very serious
player and it’s no longer you know looked at as the--the black magic
so to speak that it’s been known for--for years.

Interviewer: Well what’s going on out there in cyberspace that
website owners and web-masters need--websites such as yours or an
SEO or an SEM?

Jerry West: Well we--we talked about this before about the
misinformation.

Interviewer: Okay.

Jerry West: You know the www.seomindcrime.com site we’ve--we’ve
been talking about is--was put together for--for a few key reasons--
one is of course to clear up misconceptions and two it’s going to give
you--we talked about white hat and black hate--.

Interviewer: Right.

Jerry West: I’m in charge of the white hat side and Keith Baxter who
is known as one of the--one of the biggest cloak(ers) out there right
now he’s handling the black--the black hat side and what you’ll learn
here is basically you’re learn both the white hat and black hat
techniques and you’ll understand every methodology in terms of
internet marketing--what works and what doesn’t because we’re not
just a couple of guys who go around and--and talk to people and--and


                                  15
sell information--no. We’re in the trenches. You know if you’re an
affiliate marketer and if you’re an SEO we’re in the trenches right
along with you. These are--this is real information from real websites
that we’ve done and essentially we’re--we’re releasing this because
you know we’re both really tired of the--of the misinformation.

       You need to have a really good foundation, a good foundation of
not only what to do but how to do it. You know Keith and I have gone
through and--and sometimes spent you know weeks--months or even
years learning--learning a process and instead we’re going to go
through and show you exactly what took us all this time to learn, so
it’s going to you know reduce your amount of pain so to speak. But
essentially if we step back for a moment and the one aspect that really
causes most people to fail online is not lack of traffic, is not lack of
sales, is not lack of knowledge; often times it’s the lack of the ability
to get things done themselves. They--they--they lack direction--

Interviewer: And information.

Jerry West: --they lack focus.

Interviewer: Yeah, yeah, direction and information.

Jerry West: So along with what we have in terms of information we
also have some key information that will help you overcome--so you
know things as simple as you know understanding the key things to do
and how to get motivated enough to get them done.

Interviewer: Hmm.

Jerry West: I’ve talked to you know hundreds and thousands--
hundreds and sometimes thousands of--of website managers, site
owners over the years and it’s always apparent the reason why they’re
failing and the reason why they’re struggling--because of them. They
don’t have the--the drive that they need to get over that hump.

Interviewer: It’s totally understandable because technology changes
so fast; I mean how can any of us--especially small business people
keep up with the changes? I mean we really need you guys. [Laughs]

Jerry West: Right; and--and you don’t just need us. What--what you
really need is almost the--the release from you know the fear, the--the
unknown that--that you just can't seem to--to smash through.
There’s--I’ll give you a great example; we went through and--I was--I


                                   16
was doing a workshop in Orlando about a year and a half ago and this
gentleman, he was in a--a tremendous niche. He had a great niche
market, a great product, and actually went through and found three
key holes that all he needed to do was--was to fix them and invest
about $20,000 in terms of advertising and the projection was he would
make over $1,000,000 that year. I mean we were talking about a
serious ROI.

Interviewer: Can you mention what the product was?

Jerry West: Unfortunately I can't just because I’ve got a non-
disclosure with--with everyone I talk to.

Interviewer: Okay; all right.

Jerry West: But the issue is this; six months later I call him up and
check to see how he’s doing. He never did it because he was too
overcome in fear to invest that $20,000. But he knew that he would
make the $1,000,000. The problem was there was still some doubt in
his mind, you know. We all--we all have [Laughs] those great
conversations with--with ourselves right that--that we just can't do it.

Interviewer: Right.

Jerry West: And that--that almost always is a downfall. Most SEO(s),
most website owners in this business are either single person entities
or two or three person operations and sometimes you have a lot going
against you but you have the information, you have the technology
and you have the tools--but what you lack is the confidence in yourself
to actually get it done. It’s--to me it’s amazing you know--some
people even have a glass ceiling where--where--where I had one
gentleman who said he--he had never made more than X-amount in
his career in a given year. And even though he had the tools to triple
that number he was like I--I can't do it because I can't fathom making
that much money.

Interviewer: Wow; well--

Jerry West: So they--they don’t do it and--and most people say well
how--you know why would they do that? I can't believe they would do
that but then we turn around and we actually find ourselves in that
same exact situation and that’s--that’s unfortunate.




                                   17
Interviewer: So you’re there to get us past those stumbling blocks
and try to--?

Jerry West: You know I’m--I’m not there to go through and do any
kind of rah-rah motivational speaking; that’s not--that’s not who I am
but what I will do and what we have available is very simplistic
exercises to go through that will help you systematically get through
your barriers. I’ll give you a great example; I--I carry with me all the
time and of course this is going off-subject but I think it’s--it’s
relevant. I carry with myself a business journal okay and I don’t keep
one on my computer; I write things down and the reason why I do
that is I feel there’s a certain aspect between the brain, your--your
hand and a pen that--that causes creativity to really have--have a
jumpstart. I take it--I take this everywhere with me; in fact I’ve had
tremendous ideas with a snowboard strapped to my--to my feet up on-
-up on the mountain. But I know for sure if I wait until I get back
home to write down the idea it’s--it’s going to be gone.

Interviewer: Right.

Jerry West: It’s not--it’s not going to be there in its entirety so if I
start to write it down immediately the idea will start to grow. And
because you write it down the idea may not--may not work today; this
happened to me last October. Last October I grabbed a--going on a
flight back East and I grabbed the wrong business journal on accident
or grabbed one from two year’s previous, so I decided on the plane to
go through some of my old ideas. And I always go back through about
six months later and make comments and this one idea I had written
in the margin in red ink--stupidest idea ever. [Laughs] And I
underlined it right; well technology had changed. The market had
shifted and as I read this idea I’m like wait a minute. This can work
now. When I got off the plane I called my staff back at the office and
told them the idea and the spin that I wanted to do on it, caught a cab
to go to my hotel; by the time I got to the hotel my staff had done all
the keyword research, gotten the basic foundation of the website down
and by the end of the day we had a website up, the campaign was
going to be launched in about two or three days and this single idea
has been the biggest money-maker of our company.

Interviewer: Wow; I love that story.

Jerry West: The only reason why that happened is because I kept a
business journal and I wrote it down and I was able to go back



                                   18
through and remember an old idea, dust it off, give it a spin--bam--
there’s success.

Interviewer: Well that’s inspiring. Okay; Jerry so--so I’m your client
and I hire you to help me out with my website. What are some of the
strategies you might recommend? Let’s just get down to brass tacks
for maximizing my search engine present for my website?

Jerry West: Okay; so basically you’ve got a website and you want to
go through and just maximize your presence--a few key--a few key
issues you want to look at--one, the first thing that I would do would
be to look at your--at your web logs. I want to know what’s happened.
If you’re failing I want to know why. If you have some success I also
want to know the reasons behind that too. I want to look at conversion
ratios and what conversion ratios are is the number of fails divided by
the number of unique visitors and currently on the web you’re looking
about .7 to .9-percent--less than one-percent, not too good. If--if
you’re suffering from there a great book for you to get is a book called
Call to Action and you can get that at Amazon--about $15-bucks,
hardcover. What this will show you is ways to go through and increase
your conversion ratios from the one to two-percent to seven to eight-
percent or even more.

      I want to look at where your traffic is coming from. I want to see
what keywords you’re targeting. Also I want to see if the actual search
engines are able to index your site, you know. I had--I had a Fortune
500 company call me about three years ago wanting help and they
said we--we have no--we have no traffic from Google whatsoever. Well
the problem was they actually had a line in their robot--robot
[inaudible] file that was excluding Google from indexing their site. It’s
amazing some of the--the small and unknowingly bad mistakes a lot of
web-masters of the large companies make.

Interviewer: And simply? [Laughs]

Jerry West: So I look at--look at--to make sure that your site is
currently being indexed. That’s always a big issue. I will look to make
sure that you have a site map through Google and I don’t mean the
site map where you click on the link and it gives all the pages on your
website. I’m talking about this--there’s a new program Google has
called site maps which will--it’s an actual feed; it’s an XML feed that
will give every page of your website to Google so it can index it and
then it will tell you all the areas where you have problems. It’s--it’s
almost like going to the doctor and getting a prescription; you


                                   19
understand what’s wrong with your website and why Google can't
index certain portions of your website.

       So we’ll look at--at your keywords very, very closely. We’ll--we
want to make sure that you’re targeting the right ones. We’ll look at
your code; we want to make sure that your code is proper. There’s a
few things we want to look at. At the very, very top of every web page
should be what’s called a--the D-2-D Statement, Document Type
Definition. This tells the robots and search--search engines and also
the browser that’s loading your website what version of HTML your
web page is created and some other--other key information. This
allows your website to be loaded faster in most browsers and the
search engines can actually index your site faster. But make sure you
use the right one; if you use the wrong one it will have the adverse
effect and you will start to get slower load times and slower or even
non-indexing by the engines.

Interviewer: Okay.

Jerry West: Anyway so that’s--those are some of the key
components I would go through and start looking at--to your website
at the very beginning, very, very foundational--just insuring that you
have--you’re--you’re compliant and you’re doing things the right way
and things that you’re not doing correctly we want to get those
corrected first.

Interviewer: So you would actually make the corrections or would I-
-would I do that myself?

Jerry West: If--if I was your SEO and you had--you know you were a
one or two-person operation I’d probably do them myself just to insure
they were done properly. If you’re a large company you would never
give me access to--to do that, so it would be the company that would
go ahead and do that.

Interviewer: Okay; now you talked about the guy who was reluctant
to invest the $20,000 which could have resulted in huge sale--sales
increases. Do you have any success stories you can share with us?

Jerry West: Sure; one of my favorites was just--just recently--if--
you know for those people who know Google--Google well, Google has
what’s called a supplemental index. It’s an index that holds pages that
have been devalued; they--on the process of basically being removed
from the index. Google feels they just--they just aren’t worth


                                   20
anything. I had a gentleman who subscribes to our service, our--our
information and we went to him and wrote a step-by-step guide on
How to Get out of the Google Supplemental Index Hell is what we
called it. Well he had a very large client and they had I believe about
50,000 pages indexed by Google and all of them were in the
supplemental--supplemental index; all the pages were. He went
through and polled the guide step-by-step and in less than 30 days all
50,000 pages were removed from the supplemental index in the real
Google index and traffic just went through the roof.

Interviewer: Wow.

Jerry West: And of course the client you know just treated this guy
like--like a God. Well of course--of course he would because of what
he was able to do. But what was amazing is--is his comment to me
was it was very simple; it didn’t take all that much time; but I was
able to go through and follow things step-by-step-by-step and get
them done.

Interviewer: Uh-hm, okay; well can you project to say five or ten
years into the future--maybe you’ve already written this in your
business journal--and share what your predictions are for where we’ll
be with this technology?

Jerry West: [Laughs] I--well five to ten years there’s--there’s no
way. I know if you look--if you look back you know ten years ago; ten
years ago the biggest search engines were Alta Vista, Magellan, Info
Seek was--was a big player, Yahoo was just--was just starting out to
get a lot of traffic now; you look at all those but one have--have gone
away. You know even five years ago Google didn’t have the--the share
they have now; they were also just really starting to get a stranglehold
on the industry. It wasn’t until ’02 where they really came on.

      You know five--five years from now there’s--there has to be a--a
new player in the search community. There’s going to be you know--
you know even one year from now you’ll see a--a drastic change
probably. I’m--I’m still one that believes that Microsoft some day is
going to get it right. My--my opinion is they--they hired the wrong
people; they--they hired people who don’t know how to test or write
an algorithm in my opinion. I think they’ll get it right and they’ll start
to go through and--and they’ll use their huge influence especially what
they have with the Windows platform to start taking market share
away. They’ve--they’ve already started doing that already; we’ve--
we’ve seen a nice spike just this month with MSN. MSN right this


                                    21
month is currently at about 22-percent market share which is up from
the previous quarter of--they were about around between six and
eight-percent on average.

      Anyway my--my personal prediction is SEO and SEM will
continue to climb and it will continue to be a--a huge part of the
economy. We’ll start seeing you know more and more advertising
being done online, more and more interactive sites, interactivity; you
know five--five years I know they’ve got what Web-TV right now?

Interviewer: Right, right.

Jerry West: You know five years you--you know Direct TV and Dish
Network will have--and Comcast Cable and AT&T Network will have the
web fully integrated with their cable and satellite subscription. It’s just
going to happen. You’ll--

Interviewer: Sure; it may not take that long, yeah.

Jerry West: [Laughs] Probably not; you may even see that in about
18 months.

Interviewer: Well I think we need--we need a new television series
featuring you and your partners and you guys are the cyberspace CSI
team.

Jerry West: That’s right yeah, yeah; Keith Baxter and I--that would--
that would be pretty good.

Interviewer: So let’s talk about your website because you are out
there to fight these atrocities that are happening out in cyberspace. If
I were to plug in some key words what would be the keywords that
would take me to your website?

Jerry West: Well the website that we’re launching with--with Keith
Baxter is brand new. It’s not launching until July 1st. So in--in fact my
main website www.webmarketingnow.com, we don’t take clients. So
in--in terms of the key words that will bring up that site, we don’t
market that site at all. We do 100-percent affiliate marketing, so we
market other people’s products and unfortunately I can't release any
keyword phrases; thus I don’t want anyone to know what my affiliate
sites are--thus they would go through and duplicate those.

Interviewer: Ah.


                                    22
Jerry West: But you know for the term web-marketing, we’ve been
in the top ten for years in the big three. You go--you can go to Yahoo,
MSN, and Google, so essentially in fact we did--did some recent
testing to it may not be in the top ten in Google but it is there and
MSN and--and Yahoo. But what you’re mainly looking for is the
www.seomindcrime.com. And--

Interviewer: Okay; that is your web address?

Jerry West: You’d can sign up right now to be on the waiting list so
when the launch does happen July 1st you can--you can jump on it; it’s
going to essentially just--it’s going to take the industry and turn it
upside down. It’s--[Laughs]--it’s--it’s not going to be too bad. Keith--
Keith Baxter is actually posting his--in video-form, his personal step-
by-step basis to go through and give yourself a $50,000 raise.

Interviewer: Sounds good.

Jerry West: And basically you’ll be--you’ll be working your--your tail
of for it but he’ll give you a step-by-step basis to do it.

Interviewer: Okay; so it’s www.seomindcrime.com?

Jerry West: Yeah; www.seomindcrime.com.

Interviewer: Okay; we will definitely be going to your website and
I’m sure many of our listeners will also and we--we’ll be prepared to
work a lot harder afterwards. So thank you Jerry West for joining us.

Jerry West: You’re so welcome.

Interviewer: And I wish you great luck with your website and we will
hopefully be seeing you in cyberspace.

Jerry West: Sounds good.

Interviewer: Well thanks for joining us today to learn everything we
never knew--we never knew about Search Engine Optimization. For
more information about this topic you can contact Jerry West at
www.seomindcrime.com. Happy online searching everyone….

[Music]



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[End SEO Interview]




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