Attorney Kelly Sims Interview 10.25.2010 by Muzikman

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									 1          TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF ATTORNEY KELLY SMITH
 2                    CONDUCTED BY ASA LINDA DRANE BURDICK
 3
                                  CASE NUMBER 10-86155
 4
                              RECORDED OCTOBER 25, 2010
 5
                                 TYPED OCTOBER 29, 2010
 6
                             ASA LINDA DRANE BURDICK - LB
 7
                                ATTORNEY KELLY SIMS - KS
 8
                             ATTORNEY ANDREA BLACK - AB
 9

10
                               SERGEANT JOHN ALLEN - SA

11                           CORPORAL ERIC EDWARDS - CE

12                             CORPORAL YURI MELICH - CM

13

14   My name is Linda Drane Burdick, I’m an Assistant State Attorney here in the
15
     Office of Lawson Lamar. The date is October 25th, 2010, and the time is 2:04 p.m.
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     We have with us Kelly Sims, who is an attorney, practicing out of an address at
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     312 Park Avenue North, Winter Park, Florida 32789. He is here pursuant to a State
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     Attorney investigative Subpoena Decus Tecum. Regarding Orange County
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     Sheriff’s Office Case number 10-086155. That subpoena was issued or served on
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     Mr. Sims on 10/18/2010 at 10:40 a.m., by John Allen with the Orange County
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     Sheriff's Office. Also present in the room, Eric Edwards, John Allen, Yuri Melich
22

23   with the Orange County Sheriff's Office. And an Attorney, Andrea Black

24   representing the witness Kelly Sims.

25   LB    Um, Mr. Sims, first can we have your full name on the record?



                                                1
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   Kelly Bryan B-R-Y-A-N Sims.
 2   LB   Alright. You heard me give a recitation of why you were subpoenaed here today,
 3
          correct?
 4
     KS   Correct.
 5
     LB   Were you the individual who was served with this State Attorney Investigative
 6
          Subpoena Decus Tecum.
 7
     KS   Yes ma’am.
 8
     LB   Last Monday, October 18th, 2010?
 9

10
     KS   Yes ma’am.

11   LB   Alright. Did you read these section that directed you to bring certain documents

12        with you?

13   KS   I did.

14   LB   Alright. And were you able to um, locate any documents responsive to the
15
          subpoena?
16
     KS   I did find some documents.
17
     LB   And what did you locate?
18
     AB   Um, I’m afraid that Mr. Sims is going to invoke his ah, on behalf of his client, who
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          has advised me through William McClelland. That his client is in… all over he
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          documents that you’ve requested are attorney/client privilege. And he will not
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          produce any documents without the court requiring him to do so. Nor will he
22

23        answer any questions with regard to any of those documents. Um, pursuant to

24        attorney/client privilege, William McClelland has advised me that his client has

25        invoked his attorney/client privilege. He’s not permitted to answer any questions



                                                2
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1        pursuant to those. And he will not produce any documents unless the court ah,,
 2        orders him to do so. In addition pursuant to 934.03; he will not address any
 3
          comments or any conversations that took place relating to the information that
 4
          you um, mentioned in your subpoena. Um, unless the court enters an order
 5
          requiring him to do so. So, he’s not going to answer any questions pursuant to
 6
          attorney/client privilege. Nor will he answer any questions about any
 7
          conversations related to any of the information you’ve asked for. Unless the
 8
          court enters an order requiring him to do so. To do so pursuant to our
 9

10
          information would be a crime. Either or it by that attorney/client privilege.

11   LB   Alright. The client that you’re referring to is Joseph Jordan?

12   AB   Right.

13   LB   Do you know an individual by the name of Mortimer Smith?

14   KS   Yes.
15
     LB   Were you present for a conversation that.. Mortimer Smith had with Joseph
16
          Jordan?
17
     KS   Ah, yes.
18
     LB   Do you have an attorney/client relationship with Mortimer Smith?
19
     KS   I do not.
20
     LB   Do you recall anything that Mortimer Smith said?
21
     AB   I..
22

23   LB   In our presence?

24   AB   I… That would also be ah, related to.. he will also not answer any of those

25        pursuant to 934.03. You know (Inaudible)... she can, she can look it up herself.



                                                3
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   LB   Okay. Were there any other individuals present?
 2   KS   Yes.
 3
     LB   Who?
 4
     KS   Besides Mortimer Smith and me? Um…
 5
     LB   And your client.
 6
     KS   Oh, no.
 7
     LB   Joe Jordan.
 8
     KS   No one else was present. When we had our conversation.
 9

10
     LB   Okay. Alright, I’m gonna continue to ask questions and you can refuse..

11   AB   Ah…

12   LB   ..to answer them as you go and these gentlemen may also have some questions

13        that they would like to ask. And if you want to refuse to answer them um,

14        claiming attorney/client privilege then we’ll deal with that later.
15
     KS   Well that’s.. that’s not…
16
     AB   Okay well it’s… Excuse me. It’s either attorney/client privilege or I’ll tell you which
17
          it is. Or it’s 934.03.
18
     LB   Which you are sighting as…
19
     AB   Florida Statute 934.03.
20
     LB   For what proposition?
21
     AB   Whatever question you ask. When you ask a question I’ll tell you.
22

23   LB   Okay. Alright, you initially, this is directed to Ms. Black. Talked about invoking

24        some 5th Amendment Right. You, you ah, recognize…

25   AB   I didn’t invoke a 5th Amendment. I said, his client…



                                                  4
                                    Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   LB   That..
 2   AB   ….invokes his attorney/client privilege. Bill McClelland is his lawyer and his
 3
          client, Bill’s client’s not here. So, I’m telling you that his client is invoking his
 4
          attorney/client privilege. And therefore..
 5
     LB   Oh.
 6
     AB   … Kelly cannot …
 7
     LB   For conversations between Mr…
 8
     AB   Right.
 9

10
     LB   ….Sims…

11   AB   Right.

12   LB   …and Mr. Jordan?

13   AB   And I recognize that with the third person there. That, that is not an

14        attorney/client privilege. But 934.03 covers the conversation if he recalled it.
15
          That 93… covers the conversation between Mr…
16
     LB   You’re talking about the illegally recorded conversation? The recording..
17
     AB   You’re saying …
18
     LB   The recording is covered by 934.03.
19
     AB   Or…
20
     LB   The conversation itself is not.
21
     AB   Well, but…
22

23   LB   But …

24   AB   Okay. What.. if that’s your interpretation go ahead.

25   LB   Okay. Do you want to ask any questions?



                                                  5
                                    Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CE   Yeah. Do you recall seeing um, Mortimer Smith in possession of a sheet or a
 2        search document of any kind?
 3
     KS   Yes.
 4
     CE   Okay. Was that a Texas EquuSearch form, do you know?
 5
     AB   Um.. well I think you can probably answer that.
 6
     CE   I’m gonna, I’m gonna I see where you’re going and I’m trying to..
 7
     KS   I… I…
 8
     CE   ..remove the conversation that may have taken place.
 9

10
     AB   Whatever he sees. I.. I..

11   CE   Right.

12   AB   ..you can (Inaudible)... Well, yeah you can, you can answer it.

13   KS   I don’t.. I know it was a document. I know what it was purported to be, but I don’t

14        know.. I don’t recall Texas EquuSearch or anything on it at this point.
15
     CE   The.. and without getting into them discussing what the topic was, the sheet or
16
          the sheet was. What was your impression of what the topic of the sheet may
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          have been? Without going, going into particulars? Can I do that or..
18
     LB   You can ask …
19
     KS   Looking at the sheet?
20
     LB   …any question you want. He can ask ..
21
     AB   Just ask your question and I.. if he can answer it without, if he can answer it, you
22

23        can answer it.

24   CE   Did it, did it..

25




                                                6
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   The sheet purported to my understanding of it. Was that sheet purported to be a
 2        list of folks that had searched certain areas.
 3
     CE   Okay. And do you remember Suburban Drive coming up or any particular areas?
 4
     KS   I.. I can’t at this point recall..
 5
     CE   Okay.
 6
     KS   …what was..
 7
     CE   Do you re.. Did you actually ever look at the form itself? If I had a copy of one
 8
          and I showed it to you would that refresh your memory?
 9

10
     KS   It may.

11   CE   You have a problem with me doing that?

12   LB   No.

13   CE   Is that a multi page document you remember or just a single sheet or you don’t..

14        you don’t…
15
     KS   I don’t remember.
16
     AB   Would you make your question non compound, ‘cause that’s a compound
17
          question.
18
     CE   Okay I’ll try harder.
19
     KS   Hm. I can’t say that I recall seeing this document. And also not say it wasn’t the
20
          document I saw. It, it seems to deal with the same subject matter.
21
     CE   (Inaudible)...
22

23   KS   The document that I looked at, dealt with. And, and mine was in passing.

24   CE   You…

25   KS   From, one party to the other.



                                                    7
                                      Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CE   You holding this being a photocopy. Did that appear to be a photocopy or an
 2        original?
 3
     KS   Oh… I have no idea I didn’t.. didn’t even think to try to distinguish that back then.
 4
     CE   Did you um…
 5
     KS   Trying to read that to see if anything (Inaudible)...
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     CE   Take your time. Sorry to interrupt.
 7
     KS   No. Okay.
 8
     CE   Do you mind signing this form I showed you. So, I can keep track of it. I’ve
 9

10
          shown so many that I want to keep track of who’s looked at which one.

11   KS   (signing form)

12   CE   Second sheet too, please.

13   KS   (signing form)

14   CE   Thank you sir.
15
     KS   Yes.
16
     CE   Do you ever remember a ah, drawing being made in front of you?
17
     KS   I think there was a drawing made.
18
     CE   Was it from a printed out map or was it a sketch on a clean sheet of paper?
19
     KS   I don’t recall.
20
     CE   Did um, who drew.. Did Mortimer draw that?
21
     KS   I.. I.. my memory, my remembrance is that maybe both Mortimer and Joe Jordan
22

23        back and forth on it. But I, I’m… I think it was meant as a clarification.

24   CE   Okay. And did it deal with this same topic?

25   KS   Yes sir.



                                                 8
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CE   As the sheet that I.. we just looked at?
 2   KS   (No verbal response.)
 3
     CE   Were there at anytime were any um, medical examiner photographs shown?
 4
          Any, any photographs of any related homicide?
 5
     KS   I don’t recall that. If they were I didn’t look at ‘em.
 6
     CE   Were, were the um, did Mortimer discuss particulars about the homicide or…
 7
     AB   We’re not gonna answer that, under 934.03.
 8
     LB   You can ask the full question.
 9

10
     CE   Did um, your recollection of… What I’m getting at Kelley is, did it appear that

11        Mortimer may have been coaching, asking certain questions or discussing ah,

12        what the photographs collected by the medical examiner may portray?

13   AB   Don’t answer that question under 934.03 please.

14   CE   Is there any discussion about the name Laura Buchanan
15
     AB   Same objection 934.03.
16
     CE   Looking again at the forms that we looked at earlier. Can you um, the very top of
17
          the sheet. Does that refresh your memory about any conversation that may have
18
          taken place about particular individuals listed on that sheet?
19
     KS   That does …
20
     AB   The same.
21
     KS   No, the sheet.
22

23   AB   No, listen to me. He’s talking about conversations. That’s the same thing.

24   KS   I…

25   AB   You’re not going to answer that.



                                                  9
                                    Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CE   Does that name on the top of that sheet, Laura Buchanan. Does that mean
 2        anything to you? Does it hold any significance?
 3
     AB   With..
 4
     CE   Minus any conversation any conversation since the, since the conversation in our
 5
          office, since that date? Has this name come up again? Have you communicated
 6
          with her? Sorry.
 7
     KS   Oh I’ve not communicated with her,
 8
     CE   Okay. Do you know who she is?
 9

10
     KS   I have no idea who she is?

11   CE   Okay.

12   SA   Have you ever had any conversations with anybody other then the people that

13        were in that room about Laura Buchanan? Have you ever had a conversation

14        with Cheney Mason, Jose Baez about Laura Buchanan?
15
     KS   No, I’ve never talked to them about this case. I have received a…
16
     CE   We’re getting to that. That’s on sheet two.
17
     KS   Okay.
18
     CE   We’re methodically reaching that, that goal. Um.. did Mortimer ever tell you that
19
          he felt that the body had been moved there while Cay.. Casey was in jail?
20
     AB   Excuses me a moment. Are you speaking about that day in the office?
21
     CE   Anytime.
22

23   AB   Well, anytime other then that day in the office?

24   CE   That will be fine. Anytime other then the day in the office?

25   AB   Can we have a moment?



                                               10
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS    I just want to look at one. One (Inaudible)...
 2   AB    This?
 3
     KS    Right.
 4
     AB    This?
 5
     KS    (Inaudible)... that page.
 6
     AB    If this came from this stack of papers then the answer to that is, you cannot
 7
           answer that because it would attorney/client privilege.
 8
     CE    So, it’s far to say …
 9

10
     AB    I want to take you out to the shed.

11   KS    (laugh) You know I…

12   AB    I’m gonna take you to the shed.

13   LB    We have a room right next door if you need to use it.

14   AB    He’s gonna (Inaudible)...
15
     KS    You look at that and you tell me. Look at that and tell me.
16
     LB    You want to?
17
     AB    Yeah.
18
     LB    We’re gonna go off the record. It is 2:20.
19
     AB    Excuse us a minute.
20
     (Off record to consult with Client Kelly Sims)
21
     CE    Back on.
22

23   LB    We’re right back on 2:22 p.m. Corporal Edwards.

24   CE    Okay. Um, back.. back to the sheet that we looked at prior to.

25   AB    Sorry, excuse me.



                                                    11
                                       Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CE   Conversation.. or this particular name here. Um, Laura Buchanan.
 2   AB   I thought we were on Mortimer Smith.
 3
     CE   Well, I’m gonna go back because…
 4
     LB   Ah…
 5
     AB   Okay.
 6
     LB   Hold.. hold on. If you’re gonna assert a privilege you have to wait till he’s done
 7
          asking …
 8
     AB   Sure.
 9

10
     LB   …a question. And then we can have the full discourse on the, on the record.

11        And your full assertion..

12   AB   Yes.

13   LB   …of the privilege he knows I’m assuming not to answer without consulting with

14        his lawyer about whether or not he’s asserting anything. So, it just kind of
15
          makes it complicated if you’re objecting in the middle of a question. Thank.
16
     AB   I agree.
17
     LB   Thanks.
18
     AB   Go for it.
19
     CE   Laura Buchanan. Is there any communication between you and Mortimer Smith
20
          in regards to Laura Buchanan?
21
     KS   (No verbal response.)
22

23   CE   Emails?

24   KS   Phone call.

25   CE   Phone call. And when did that occur?



                                               12
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   Twenty-second of October, 2009.
 2   CE   How long was that call? Do you know?
 3
     KS   Maybe 5 minutes. Maybe less.
 4
     CE   I imagine you took notes during that phone call?
 5
     KS   I scribbled…
 6
     CE   May…
 7
     KS   …out that he was wanting to set up a um, appointment. I can’t remember if I
 8
          called him or he called me.
 9

10
     CE   Do you remember the content of that conversation?

11   KS   Yes.

12   CE   Can you share that with me?

13   KS   Like to set up a meeting with Joe Jordan, talk about Texas EquuSearch. And he

14        name Laura Buchanan being involved. I said, “Where you want to have it?” “I
15
          prefer my office.” He said, “Okay.” We found the time and the place and I think it
16
          was set up within a very short time thereafter. I don’t remember the date of the
17
          meeting. That was my only conversation with him prior to him arriving at my
18
          office.
19
     CE   During that conversation do you recall if Mortimer stated an opinion of when the
20
          body may have been deposited in the recovery location?
21
     KS   No.
22

23   CE   Okay, that was before the meeting.

24   KS   Yes sir.

25   CE   Has there been any communication after that meeting?



                                              13
                                 Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   No sir.
 2   CE   I know that we have reached out to you in regarding.. I’ll get this topic knocked
 3
          out of the way so we can move on. Um, regarding case number ah, 09-109135.
 4
          Sergeant Allen contacted you regarding this surreptitious recording.
 5
     KS   Yes.
 6
     CE   And.. I’m sorry.
 7
     KS   That’s fine.
 8
     CE   And you provided a declination of intent?
 9

10
     KS   Yes sir.

11   CE   Two simple questions. Um, were you.. do you have a copy of that recording?

12   KS   No sir.

13   CE   And do you know anyone else other then Joe Jordan, not asking about him

14        telling you that he has a copy. But do you know of anyone having a copy?
15
     KS   No sir.
16
     CE   Okay. Have you been approached by anyone asked to present a copy?
17
     KS   No sir.
18
     CE   No. Is there.. is there anyone else associated with Mortimer Smith? Such as
19
          Andrea Lyons, that has contacted you since that meeting?
20
     KS   No sir.
21
     CE   And again, to reiterate, I missed the answer. Jose Baez?
22

23   KS   Never talked to him in my life.

24   CE   Um, William .. I forget this fella that’s working with him. What was his last name?

25   SA   With ah…



                                               14
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CE   Jose.
 2   SA   You talking about Edward?
 3
     CE   Edward.
 4
     SA   Edward (Inaudible)...
 5
     KS   Don’t know who that is, never talked to him.
 6
     CE   Okay. No one from the Baez Law Firm?
 7
     KS   No.
 8
     CE   Regarding this particular sheet?
 9

10
     KS   No.

11   CE   Um…

12   KS   Or anything else.

13   CE   Or anything else. Um, regarding this particular sheet, Mark NeJame?

14   KS   No.
15
     CE   Tim Miller?
16
     KS   Don’t know who that is and no.
17
     CE   Okay. Um, I’m gonna run through these list of names if you don’t mind. And ask
18
          is… the first list the name on here is a name by the name of Armando. Has he
19
          reached out to you?
20
     KS   No sir.
21
     CE   Ah, this is again this is Laura Buchanan misspelled. You stated She hadn’t
22

23        reached out to you?

24   KS   No.

25   CE   Lori Fusco?



                                               15
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   No.
 2   CE   Of course Joe Jordan. We’ll skip that. Ann Whitley?
 3
     KS   No.
 4
     CE   Kasper Jordan?
 5
     KS   No.
 6
     CE   Don Blair?
 7
     KS   No.
 8
     CE   Or Dan Mitchell?
 9

10
     KS   No.

11   CE   Are you familiar with any of those names?

12   KS   I’m familiar with one of the eight names.

13   CE   What (Inaudible)...

14   KS   If I’m familiar. Probably familiar with two now.
15
     CE   Oh, being Laura Buchanan?
16
     KS   Yes.
17
     SA   You’re just became familiar with the name Laura Buchanan, today?
18
     KS   No, no, but I’m familiar with that name.
19
     SA   Okay.
20
     KS   Y’all have been talking about it and I wouldn’t have been able to dredge it up on
21
          my own without having the benefit of the subpoena you brought me.
22

23   SA   So, that… without the subpoena you wouldn’t have known who she was?

24

25




                                                16
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   I wouldn’t have been able to say that’s who we talked about on that day in
 2        anyway, shape of form. I don’t remember the name. And I.. independently I
 3
          didn’t know that name. I’ve never spoken with her.
 4
     SA   Well. I’m not real sure I understand. Sp, you’re … you’re saying that if we hadn’t
 5
          served the… if we have not served you this subpoena, you really wouldn’t be
 6
          familiar with the name Laura Buchanan?
 7
     KS   If you had not served me with that subpoena. Told me to get what I needed to
 8
          get. I would not be familiar with that name.
 9

10
     SA   Okay. Um…

11   KS   I mean, but and by that I’m.. I’m sure I’ve heard it, maybe through you. I think

12        through you. But what I’m saying is, I would never have remembered it ‘cause it

13        held no ..

14   SA   Significance.
15
     KS   …significance to me whatsoever. It’s not like …
16
     AB   Andrea Black.
17
     KS   ….Linda … I was gonna say Linda. Or …
18
     LB   It was..
19
     KS   …that I would know. That hold significance for me., but not.. not Laura
20
          Buchanan.
21
     CE   Have you had an opportunity to review a um, sworn statement. Um, attached to
22

23        motions written by Mortimer Smith. Regarding your conversation that you

24        witnessed.

25   KS   Um, I don’t..



                                               17
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   AB   Why would he want to do that?
 2   CE   Might have some questions I’m gonna ask based on (Inaudible)….
 3
     LB   I think the question was, Have you had the opportunity to see…
 4
     AB   And that’s your question. Okay but, that’s your question, Have you had the
 5
          opportunity?
 6
     KS   Yes.
 7
     AB   Okay.
 8
     CE   Can I see that? Would you like to refresh your memory before I ask any
 9

10
          questions about that document.

11   KS   Um, yeah.

12   AB   Why do you want to? I don’t know.

13   KS   Just to… cause you grief that’s why.

14   AB   I swear to God. (laugh)
15
     SA   How about help find out the truth. That’s be a good answer, wouldn’t it?
16
     AB   That’s what… I’m all for that, but this..
17
     SA   We are too.
18
     AB   Think that’s (Inaudible)... The problem I have with him looking at it, he’s not
19
          gonna be able to answer any questions about it anyway.
20
     SA   About a motion that Cheney Mason file?
21
     AB   No about what Mortimer Smith says about what was said that day.
22

23   LB   Alright, well we can ask questions…

24   AB   Can ask the questions.

25   LB   … and he can assert his um, alleged…



                                                18
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   AB   Well…
 2   LB   ..object…
 3
     AB   ….if you read …
 4
     LB   …privilege.
 5
     AB   …the statute …
 6
     LB   I’ve read it.
 7
     AB   Guess you read it. You got to read it again.
 8
     LB   I’ve read it many times.
 9

10
     AB   Have you listened to the tape?

11   LB   I have not.

12   AB   Wonder why?

13   SA   Well, we’re… we’re not gonna any questions about the tape.

14   AB   Oh right.
15
     LB   But I said at the beginning there’s a difference between the.. listening to the tape
16
          and talking about the conversation.
17
     AB   I agree, but if you read the statue you…
18
     LB   I’ve read…
19
     AB   ….would change your mind.
20
     LB   ….the statue. I thought…
21
     AB   That’s how you …
22

23   LB   ….a motion …

24   AB   …and I differ all the time.

25




                                                  19
                                     Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   LB   I filed a motion to, for protective order that benefited your client to apparently um,
 2        that was granted.. .
 3
     KS   You looking at me?
 4
     LB   You want me to put that on the record?
 5
     SA   Yeah we did listen to the tape. So, we know..
 6
     AB   Oh no (Inaudible)...
 7
     SA   …we listened to the tape.
 8
     KS   (Inaudible)...
 9

10
     SA   To identify the potential victim so..

11   LB   They have, I have not.

12   SA   Yeah. I want to ask for the record, so for the record Corporal Edwards and I did

13        listen to the tape. So, we’d know exactly what it said. We know exactly what

14        was said during the meeting.
15
     CE   And, and I’m not asking questions about the recording. I’m asking questions
16
          about a conversation.
17
     KS   I understand that.
18
     AB   Same thing.
19
     SA   So, it.. if they’re.. if.. what… if it had no been, if it.. if it.. if the thing had not been
20
          recorded, he’d answer the questions? But because it’s recorded he won’t
21
          answer the questions?
22

23   AB   Because it was illegally recorded he’s not permitted to repeat any illegally

24        recorded conversation.

25   SA   So, so are you, are you saying that..



                                                  20
                                     Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   AB   (Inaudible)...
 2   SA   …that if he had… if that, if that conversation had never been recorded. And we’d
 3
          asked these same questions about the conversation…
 4
     AB   If he could recall…
 5
     SA   ….he could answer ‘em?
 6
     AB   …whatever conver…. Because this is my position.
 7
     CE   So, this is illegal right there because they typed about the conversation?
 8
     AB   That is illegal.
 9

10
     CE   That’s where I was going. Is this a true depiction of what…

11   AB   It’s…

12   CE   …you’re at…

13   AB   He’s not… You’re not.. I’m not gonna let him answer that.

14   CE   I’m gonna ask anyway.
15
     AB   Well I understand.
16
     CE   Is that, is this a true depiction of your roll…
17
     AB   And…
18
     CE   ….in the conversation?
19
     AB   No, he’s not gonna answer that. Of course not.
20
     CE   Thank you for entertaining my question though.
21
     KS   You’re welcome.
22

23   AB   But he’s not.. you know the problem is, the problem is the illegal conversation

24        period. And repeating an illegal conversation. Or commenting or saying it to

25        others.



                                                21
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   SA   So…
 2   AB   You can’t give him.. I mean.. I mean it’s a felony if he does that.
 3
     SA   So, Yuri …
 4
     AB   The judge orders him to do that. It’s still a felony.
 5
     SA   So, your view who committed the felony here, by.. by putting into this ah, into this
 6
          ah…
 7
     AB   Whoever typed that up.
 8
     SA   So, you say whoever typed… you.. so your.. your view, whoever typed this
 9

10
          document committed a felony?

11   AB   Right.

12   SA   Okay.

13   CE   And…

14   AB   But, I’m not … you’re the cop. You read the statue.
15
     SA   Yes.
16
     AB   Big cop.
17
     SA   Yes and we did, we did red the statue… we had to read the statue because we
18
          investigated a crime.
19
     AB   And that’s why you and I have agreed over.. disagreed over the years. But I’m
20
          not gonna take a chance on my client doing something that I believe would
21
          violate the statue. So, if the judge tells me you got do, it’s not a crime then he’ll
22

23        do it. It doesn’t give him immunity….

24   LB   It does.

25   AB   ….back.



                                                22
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   LG   It doesn’t. It does not.
 2   LB   Um, regardless of our interpretation of the law. The conversation was not illegal.
 3
          The recording of the conversation…
 4
     AB   Of the conversation.
 5
     LB   …was illegal.
 6
     AB   Repeating…
 7
     LB   Let me ask you.
 8
     AB   ….the conversation.
 9

10
     LB   No.

11   AB   Is illegal ac.

12   LB   No.

13   AB   Repeating the illegal…

14   LB   We.. we’re gonna…
15
     AB   …conversation.
16
     LB   … disagree on the law in that.
17
     AB   Go ahead.
18
     LB   Regardless, Mr…
19
     AB   Finis up.
20
     LB   ..Jordan came in under an investigative subpoena and talked about the
21
          conversation.
22

23   AB   Ah, Mr. Jordan’s (Inaudible)...

24   LB   Nevertheless, nevertheless Mr. Sims, have you listened to a tape recorded

25        conversation? In the past year?



                                                  23
                                     Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   AB   Any tape recorded conversation?
 2   LB   The one in question.
 3
     KS   Listened to a recording of it?
 4
     LB   Yes.
 5
     KS   No.
 6
     LB   Any response that you give to a question here. Would that be based on your
 7
          recollection rather then your having listened to a recording of the conversation?
 8
     KS   Yes.
 9

10
     LB   Right. Go ahead.

11   AB   I disagree with you anyway.

12   LB   We understand.

13   AB   Okay. Let the judge make that interoperation.

14   KS   Uh-huh. (Affirmative)
15
     LB   Absolutely.
16
     AB   Okay. Will you quit trying to figure it out and just let ‘em finish it. If the judge
17
          says answer your questions, you answer them. Right now we’re not gonna
18
          answer them.
19
     CE   When you, when we first started here you said you had documents. You did find
20
          documents?
21
     KS   (No verbal response.)
22

23   CE   Um, can you tell me what those documents are?

24   AB   No.

25   CE   What were suppose…



                                                24
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   AB   They are attorney/client documents. They’re not… those are not these
 2        documents. Those are attorney/client.
 3
     CE   They’re not between Mortimer Smith...
 4
     AB   No.
 5
     KS   No documents..
 6
     AB   No, they’re hot
 7
     KS   …are Mortimer Smith.
 8
     AB   They don’t have anything to do with those two. They are attorney/client
 9

10
          documents.

11   LB   Okay.

12   SA   (Inaudible)... in the original form that was shown. You do not have a, you do not

13        have that original form?

14   KS   No.
15
     SA   You don’t know who has the original form?
16
     KS   No.
17
     SA   Anybody you ever talked to about the original form?
18
     AB   What are you talk.. The.. the.. those two that…
19
     KS   That I signed?
20
     SA   The original of that form he signed.
21
     AB   Okay. No.
22

23   KS   Not I…

24   SA   Have you ever seen the original of that form?

25




                                               25
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   I don’t know what I saw originally was an original or not, I don’t recall that it was.
 2        ‘Cause I wasn’t looking to see if it was blue ink or anything like that.
 3
     CE   I think the hardest part’s over because the question is, Was this shown in front of
 4
          you? And it appears that it was. In …
 5
     KS   Something that seems like that.
 6
     CE   That dealt with this topic.
 7
     KS   Yes.
 8
     CE   Okay.
 9

10
     KS   But I’m telling you right now. As I told you before. I don’t.. that document isn’t

11        leaping in my mind. I saw a document and it seem to deal with those same

12        issues. But I don’t recall that is was that specific document. Or a copy of it or an

13        original of it.

14   CE   Did the date stand out in your mind? The date of conversation just to…
15
     KS   Date of conversation?
16
     CE   That, when they were discussing that form. Did they say what date that that
17
          search was suppose to have occurred on?
18
     KS   Um, I don’t recall that. I don’t.
19
     CM   Do you recall any Post It Notes or anything on the forms that you looked at? For
20
          instance if you came in with a document with a Post It Note on the upper left
21
          hand side?.
22

23   KS   It was my Post It Note.

24   AB   (Inaudible)...

25   KS   Wasn’t…



                                                 26
                                    Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   AB   (Inaudible)...
 2   CM   I’m asking him a question. Do you recall any Post It Notes on the document that
 3
          you saw on the day that Mr. Jordan was at your office with Mortimer Smith?
 4
     KS   No.
 5
     AB   (Inaudible)...
 6
     CM   So, the document you’re looking at, you wouldn’t.. you don’t recall anything
 7
          independent being posted on there a little Post It Note on that document?
 8
     KS   No.
 9

10
     LB   Do you recall whether your client Mr. Jordan um, made any, in the presence of

11        Mortimer Smith, made any comments about the document?

12   AB   You’re not gonna answer that either.

13   LB   Okay. Do you recall your client in the presence of Mortimer Smith, questioning

14        the authenticity of whatever document was presented to him for his
15
          consideration?
16
     AB   No, he’s not gonna answer.
17
     LB   If your client in the presence of Mortimer Smith questioned the authenticity of the
18
          document. Did Mr. Smith respond?
19
     AB   Same, not gonna answer.
20
     LB   Okay. Did Mr. Jordan, in Mr.. Mr. Smith’s presence, say that the document
21
          appeared to be fraudulent?
22

23   AB   Same objection.

24   LB   Did Mr. Jordan in Mr. Smith’s presence question how he had this document?

25   AB   Same objection.



                                               27
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CE   I’m not a lawyer, but if these sworn statements that deal with that subject matter
 2        under your impression, that statute are attached to motions. In those motions
 3
          contain content that this individual stated in there. Would that motion be illegal?
 4
     LB   Hm, well..
 5
     CE   No?
 6
     LB   We’ll deal with…
 7
     AB   I don’t think so.
 8
     LB   …any of that later.
 9

10
     AB   (Inaudible)... Whatever.

11   CE   I need to ask that before I asked to look at the motion, but I think we’ll wait.

12   LB   Do you have Joe Jordan statement with you?

13   CE   Yeah.

14   LB   I mean, the one he gave you.
15
     CE   The… I’m sorry?
16
     LB   The one he gave you and me.
17
     CE   The (Inaudible)... Yes.
18
     SA   While they’re looking for that. I.. I just.. I a question about another conversation.
19
          This conversation wasn’t recorded. Okay. Um, this conversation took place in
20
          your office. You and the three of us okay.
21
     KS   Uh-huh. (Affirmative)
22

23   SA   Um, you recall…

24   AB   Three of who? These.. you three?

25   SA   The three of us and Mr. Sims.



                                                 28
                                    Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   And they..
 2   SA   The conversation..
 3
     KS   (Inaudible)...
 4
     SA   That conversation wasn’t recorded.
 5
     KS   Right.
 6
     SA   A lawful conversation. You said ah, we served you with that subpoena. This is a
 7
          good thing. This is gonna get you where you want to go.
 8
     KS   This is gonna get us where you want to go.
 9

10
     SA   Okay what did you mean, what did you mean by that?

11   KS   Its going to be a start to get you where you wanted to go.

12   SA   Okay, what.. what did you mean by that, when you said, that this would get us…

13        would be a start to get us where we want to go? What did you mean by that?

14   KS   I figured Drane, Ms. Burdick would um, take the step she needs to take. To see if
15
          she could get that information, whatever I might remember, retain. By taking the
16
          steps she’s gonna take.
17
     SA   That’s why we’re here today right?
18
     KS   That’s the first step.
19
     SA   But when you said that this was.. to us this was a good thing. It would get us
20
          where we wanted to go. You, you meant that what? This is gonna get us
21
          where?
22

23   KS   This is gonna get you to where you want to where you want to go. This is gonna

24        get you to try to get to the next level.

25   AB   He can’t answer questions unless the court ask those answer questions.



                                                29
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   SA   Okay. Can he answer questions that, about things he said to us?
 2   KS   Yes.
 3
     SA   It was not being recorded. I’m trying get you to tell me, we’re going to be where?
 4
          You said we’re get you…
 5
     KS   I figured Ms Burdick would get to a judge and if a judge told me I had to answer
 6
          these questions I would answer these questions. I’m not trying not to answer
 7
          these questions. I’m constrained by two things. Bu confidentiality and, and
 8
          client/attorney privilege and by my um, my interpretation along with my lawyer’s
 9

10
          interpretation of the statue in question on the illegal recording and what I can or

11        can’t say about it. ‘Cause I don’t intend to commit a third degree felony in the

12        presence of 3 um, fine officers of the law.

13   AB   And I don’t trust you…

14   SA   So, so, so you believe that if you tell us …
15
     LB   Well let’s not…
16
     SA   ….so, so you believe ..
17
     LB   …make disparaging comments on the record.
18
     SA   So, you believe…
19
     AB   You’re kidding.
20
     SA   You believe if you tell us what was said during that conversation, from your
21
          memory. That you’re committing a crime?
22

23   KS   I do believe that.

24   AB   I think it is a crime.

25   LB   We know.



                                                 30
                                    Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   AB   It doesn’t say..
 2   LB   Okay.
 3
     AB   …that.
 4
     SA   I’m.. asking him. And this is not a question about the conversation.
 5
     KS   She’s still my lawyer. She…
 6
     SA   I understand that.
 7
     KS   She can ..
 8
     SA   But I’m asking you the question.
 9

10
     LB   She can consult with you.

11   SA   And then…

12   LB   She can’t be part…

13   SA   ….asking you the question.

14   LB   … of the question.
15
     SA   I want, I want, I just want, to make sure we’re clear on this. You believe
16
     KS   Uh-huh. (Affirmative)
17
     SA   You believe you’re… you’re an attorney, correct?
18
     KS   I am an attorney.
19
     SA   Okay, right. And it’s your interpretation of the law that if we ask you a question
20
          about the conversion that took place in your office. And you answered that
21
          question independent of the tape. Your memory, that you’re committing a
22

23        crime?

24   KS   Yes.

25




                                               31
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   SA   Okay. Alright, well let us go through at least some of the questions and then you
 2        can make objection when we…
 3
     AB   Okay.
 4
     SA   Ah, did.. did you ah, at any point during this conversation in your office, did ah,
 5
          did you hear anybody say they’ve seen the autopsy photos and that child’s body
 6
          while contained in bag?
 7
     AB   Think he already an.. he’s already answered that, think you already asked that.
 8
          So, he’s not gonna answer that.
 9

10
     SA   Okay. Um, do you recall at any point during that conversation your client Mr.

11        Jordan making a statement and Mr. Smith interrupting him and putting words in

12        his mouth?

13   AB   The same. Objection.

14   CM   I’ve got a (Inaudible)...
15
     SA   Go ahead.
16
     CM   You said you mentioned, you brought some documents today to this um,
17
          deposition. Correct.
18
     KS   Yes.
19
     CM   And these documents were as a result of the subpoena regarding.. or asking you
20
          to bring certain items to the deposition?
21
     KS   Yes.
22

23   CM   Correct? These documents without asking you the content I’m gonna ask you,

24        did any other documents mention Laura Buchanan?

25




                                                   32
                                      Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   AB   He can’t answer that because all the documents were relating to his
 2        attorney/client relationships.
 3
     CM   On that I’m not asking..
 4
     AB   I’m answering it…
 5
     CM   …about relationship…
 6
     Ab   …for attorney/client. None of them relate to, he brought me documents. But
 7
          they relate to his attorney/client. They do not relate to that conversation or any of
 8
          the documents those two individuals had.
 9

10
     CM   So, you’re saying you’re not gonna answer the question or there’s no.. Laura

11        Buchanan is not mentioned in either of he documents?

12   AB   I am telling you that , we’ll not tell you what’s in the documents because they are

13        attorney/client. They are not documents relating to that conversation between

14        Mr. Mortimer and John Jordan.
15
     KB   Joe.
16
     CM   (Inaudible)...
17
     AB   Joe Jordan, whatever…
18
     LB   What was the date of your um, initial representation of Mr. Jordan? Do you know
19
          that off the top of your head?
20
     KS   No that was for a divorce matter.
21
     LB   Oh.
22

23   AB   (Inaudible)...

24   LB   Okay. And when did you terminate your attorney/client relationship?

25   KS   The day after… Smith he and I met when he called me.



                                                  33
                                     Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   SA   When I called you, right?
 2   KS   (No verbal response.)
 3
     SA   When I called you?
 4
     KS   No, no, when ah, when I was called first from my client.
 5
     SA   Oh about the conversation being recorded?
 6
     KS   (No verbal response)
 7
     LB   What…
 8
     KS   That’s, that’s (Inaudible)…
 9

10
     SA   I.. I called you.. Do you remember me calling you.

11   KS   I remember you calling me.

12   SA   Okay.

13   KS   But I thought I talked to my client before then.

14   SA   You seem awfully surprised when I told you the conversation had been recorded.
15
     KS   Ah, no…
16
     CE   We.. we..
17
     KS   …no.
18
     CE   We did afford him that opportunity to call you first.
19
     KS   Yeah.
20
     CE   Um..
21
     KS   I talked to him.
22

23   AB   Ah…

24   KS   But I’m not gonna say what I talked to him about. But I, at that point all my

25        representation with him was over.



                                                34
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   SA   Okay.
 2   LB   Okay. So, the day after whatever conversation he had with Mortimer Smith in
 3
          your presence. That is.. that terminated the, the attorney/client relationship?
 4
     KS   Yes.
 5
     LB   Okay. Alright. Sorry to interrupt.
 6
     SA   Do you remember ah.. ah, that meeting in your office, do you remember ah, Joe
 7
          Jordan ever told Mortimer Smith that he didn’t recognize Laura Buchanan. But
 8
          that she called him.. ah, later called him and said that she was a police officer in
 9

10
          Kentucky?

11   AB   Um, he’s not gonna answer that.

12   SA   Okay. Ah, do you recall if during that conversation um, Mr. Jordan told Mr. Smith

13        ah, on more then one occasion that there was water there and they couldn’t

14        search?
15
     AB   Not gonna answer that.
16
     SA   (No verbal response.)
17
     CE   You had a chance to review the transcripts of our interviews and Mr. Jordan after
18
          the fact.
19
     KS   They were provided to me.
20
     CE   Have you had a chance to read them?
21
     KS   No I did not read them after I read that statute again.
22

23   CE   Because that would deal with the recording?

24   KS   Well…

25   CE   Though it was a different …



                                                35
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   …there was no reason for me to review it. ‘Cause whatever that said, didn’t..
 2   CE   Well, my question was.. was going to be, if you had done that. This
 3
          representation by Mr. Smith, that those interviews that we did at a later date.
 4
          That Mr. Jordan told us his recollection of the conversation between he and
 5
          Mortimer. Because we needed those facts for our investigation. This is
 6
          presenting it as if Joe Jordan’s telling us a different story line. So, my question
 7
          was going to be, this and this don’t marry well. They don’t come together.
 8
          Would, if you had an opportunity to read those transcripts from our interviews.
 9

10
          Could you give us your opinion on whether…

11   AB   He’s not gonna answer that.

12   CE   I have to ask.

13   AB   He’s not gonna answer that.

14   LB   You can finish your question.
15
     CE   What am I…
16
     AB   I’m afraid he’s gonna.. don’t answer these questions (Inaudible).. attorney
17
          please.
18
     SA   Unrelated to the conversation in your office.
19
     AB   Thank you.
20
     SA   If.. what, if what contained in this affidavit were untrue. Would that be a crime?
21
     AB   How can that be unrelated? It’s no unrelated. He’s not going to ask… and he’s
22

23        not going to answer that. That can’t be unrelated. Don’t answer that please.

24   KS   I know.

25




                                               36
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CE   Mr. Sims, can you sign that so I keep track if that’s the one we’re looking at today
 2        please? Anywhere on there.
 3
     KS   (signing form)
 4
     CE   You are no longer representing Mr. Jordan, on November 16th, 2009, correct?
 5
     KS   Correct.
 6
     CE   Do you mind reading that for me?
 7
     AB   Let me see.
 8
     CE   I know I can’t even feel…
 9

10
     AB   Why.. why would he read this?

11   CE   If you would entertain reading...

12   LB   ‘Cause he asked him to.

13   CE   …it for me. I would, I would get to my question.

14   AB   What was the date that he… Ah,. Is this related to what happened on that day?
15
          What they discussed on that day?
16
     LB   Right now the, the pending question is, would you please read this.
17
     AB   And my an.. question is, does this information relate to what was said on that
18
          tape?
19
     CE   I won’t..
20
     LB   We’ll find out.
21
     CE   ..until he reads it.
22

23   AB   Well I don’t want him to read it then. And the answer is, no I don’t want him to

24        read it. ‘Cause you won’t…

25   CE   Sir..



                                               37
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   LB   So, the answer to will you please read this is?
 2   AB   No. My answer, I’m not gonna have…
 3
     LB   Not her answer. Your answer.
 4
     AB   I’m not gonna….
 5
     SA   So, the answer to the question will you read...
 6
     AB   ….have him answer that…
 7
     SA   ..it, no?
 8
     AB   ….question. No.
 9

10
     CM   It’s no.

11   SA   It’s no. Okay. (laugh)

12   AB   What in the heck are you guys doing? Come on get …let’s get this …

13   LB   Andrea.

14   SA   I mean what are we doing?
15
     LB   Come on we’re trying to be..
16
     SA   We’re trying to find the truth.
17
     LB   Hold on.
18
     AB   What I’m trying to say.. Excuse me.
19
     LB   Excuse me. No…
20
     AB   My turn.
21
     LB   No, no it isn’t. This is a State Attorney investigative subpoena.
22

23   AB   (Inaudible)...

24   LB   That Mr. Sims has appeared for. We’re trying to be cordial. The way these work

25        I’m sure you know, is that you are here representing him. You don’t get to



                                                38
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1        participate. As much as you would like to. You don’t get to participate. If you all
 2        want to step out, if you want us to step out so you can consult with him. That’s
 3
          fine.
 4
     AB   (Inaudible)... to object.
 5
     LB   Absolutely.
 6
     AB   I object.
 7
     LB   Base…
 8
     SA   Can we ask the questions before you object?
 9

10
     AB   Well, I object… he.. I object he’s not gonna answer.

11   SA   (laugh) That’s (Inaudible)...

12   LB   This isn’t a, this isn’t a deposition. This isn’t a hearing. This is the State Attorney

13        investigative subpoena. If he wants to refuse to answer everything. Fine refuse

14        to answer everything, we’ll deal with it later. We’re just trying to get through this
15
          process. You’re obviously when you leave here you’re gonna know what we’re
16
          interested in. If you want to change your mind and answer questions. Free to do
17
          that to. Or we can have a hearing if that’s what necessary. But we’re trying to
18
          finish the process.
19
     SA   So, the answer to will you read this is no?
20
     KS   That’s correct.
21
     SA   Okay thank you.
22

23   CE   I like this so we know where we need marks on these things. Okay. (Inaudible)..

24        Case number under signature.

25   KS   Yes sir.



                                                   39
                                      Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CE   This will be article 2. I think I’ll make this article number 3. And what that is, just
 2        so I can state of um, my recollection, typing is a sworn statement by Joseph
 3
          Jordan. Typed by Mortimer Smith and signed on November.. 11/16/2009. If you
 4
          don’t mind just I showing you that one. That the document that we were just
 5
          discussing. Please and thank you. Thank you sir.
 6
     SA   Do you know where Mortimer got the form from he brought to your office?
 7
     AB   Ah…
 8
     KS   No.
 9

10
     SA   Do you recall if he said to you, he’d gotten it from Linda.. or from Laura

11        Buchanan?

12   AB   Objection. He’s not going to answer that.

13   SA   No.

14   LB   That’s ah, one of those 9..
15
     AB   (Inaudible)...
16
     LB   ….34, 934 objections?
17
     AB   (Inaudible)...
18
     SA   (Inaudible)...
19
     LB   Okay just so we’re clear. So, we know what to litigate if needed.
20
     AB   Said, you asked him what he said.
21
     CE   The ah, the map that was drawn. Both parties were involved? Which was non-
22

23        verbal communication?

24   KS   (No verbal response.)

25   CE   Um, do you have a copy of that or was one left at the office?



                                                40
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   No and no.
 2   CE   Do you know ah, did Mortimer leave with that in non-verbal communication, it
 3
          was drawing.
 4
     KS   I don’t know.
 5
     CE   Um, was ah, was a copy made?
 6
     KS   I don’t know.
 7
     CE   You don’t know. Okay. That would.. if.. if one was made it would’ve been your
 8
          assistant?
 9

10
     KS   Right.

11   CE   Your…

12   KS   But I don’t remember whether that was or wasn’t done. I don’t remember if there

13        was a copy made or taken with him or whether it was distributed to anybody I

14        don’t know. I know I don’t have a copy.
15
     SA   You don’t know where um, Mortimer got that form from?
16
     KS   No.
17
     SA   Did you ever ask him where he got the form from? Out independent of ah, to be
18
          in your office?
19
     KS   I don’t think I knew of a form.
20
     SA   So, he showed up, he showed up with a form, you said you have no idea where it
21
          came from? You don’t really know much about it?
22

23   KS   I don’t (Inaudible)... I don’t.

24   SA   Don’t remember?

25   KS   Say your question again.



                                                 41
                                    Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   SA   So, he shows up with this form and shows it to your client. You have no idea
 2        where he got it from? You didn’t question where it came from?
 3
     KS   I… I very well may I don’t…
 4
     SA   You don’t remember?
 5
     KS   No, I would think I would’ve. I can’t talk about the contents or the conversation
 6
          anyway. I can tell you this. Before the surreptitiously recorded conversation. I
 7
          had received no documents from Mortimer Smith. I’d been shown no documents
 8
          from Mortimer Smith and no any had he told me, I have these documents. As far
 9

10
          as I can recall.

11   SA   And you either, you either don’t recall I guess if you want to make it clear. Are

12        you saying you don’t recall whether he told you he got it from Laura Buchanan?

13        Or you’re not sayin, if he told you whether he got it from Laura Buchanan?

14   KS   I can’t talk about surreptitiously recoded conversation. But I can tell you I don’t
15
          remember anything about him telling me he got some form from Laura Buchanan
16
          at anytime prior to that conversation. And I had no contact with him whatsoever
17
          after that conversation.
18
     SA   Prior to the ah, the meeting in your office. And prior.. prior to their illegally
19
          recorded conversation. Had you seen the form?
20
     KS   No. The form.. that is article 1?
21
     SA   Yes.
22

23   KS   And again, I’m not sure that I ever saw article 1. But as far as seeing some kind

24        of form like that I don’t recall Mortimer Smith showing me any form. Or faxing me

25        a form or scanning me a form, anything of that nature.



                                                  42
                                     Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CM    Not including the day in question with Mortimer Smith and your client Joe Jordan
 2         not including that day. Prior to day has anyone else showed you article 1. the
 3
           form we showed you today?
 4
     KS    Hm, I don’t think I’ve seen that. Subsequently in our conversation.
 5
     CM    Prior to today, not including conversation that you had with Joe Jordan and
 6
           Mortimer Smith. Has anyone approached you and showed you a similar
 7
           document claiming it to be a search form and asked you whether or not you had
 8
           seen that form before? That’s confusing with the questions? I think I confused
 9

10
           myself, let me ask again.

11   (Chuckle)

12   CM    Prior to today.

13   KS    Right.

14   CM    Not including the date that you and Joe Jordan, Mortimer Smith (Inaudible)...
15
     KS    Yes sir.
16
     CM    Has anyone showed you a different form that article 1 today. A different form
17
           claiming to be a search form and asking you, had you seen it before?
18
     KS    That’s a two part question. The first part of that, has anyone shown me that
19
           something like that.
20
     CM    A similar document.
21
     KS    Right.
22

23   CM    But not…

24   KS    A similar document. But attorney/client privilege to assert.

25   CM    I’m not, I’m not asking about the day that…



                                                43
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   I know, I’m not talking about that either. I’ve got an attorney/client privilege to
 2        assert with regards to.. things that look like that.
 3
     CM   And who would be the client in the attorney/client privilege?
 4
     KS   Only, we’re only talking about one client, Joe Jordan.
 5
     CM   Okay.
 6
     KS   The second part of your question, has anybody come to me and say, have you
 7
          seen this before? No one has come to me and asked me have I seen that
 8
          before.
 9

10
     CM   Okay.

11   KS   Am I confusing you?

12   CM   Yeah I think you have. So, somebody .. well… The first question was meant to

13        ask, if somebody had showed you that form from, not including the time that

14        Mortimer Smith and Joe Jordan had conversation, to today. ‘Cause we showed
15
          you article 1.
16
     KS   Right.
17
     CM   And you said, to your recollection nobody had shown you a form that appears to
18
          be like that.
19
     KS   Well not.. That’s a tough one, appears to be like that.
20
     CM   Do you have, Eric, do you have another copy of another corm just so I can use it
21
          as a …
22

23   CE   Uh-huh. (Affirmative)

24   CM   …tool, better to (Inaudible)...

25   AB   No.



                                                44
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CM   That’s fine, the second one.
 2   CE   You want the top one as well?
 3
     CM   I, place in front of you article we refer to for this question as article 1.
 4
     KS   Yes sir.
 5
     CM   And this is a form that I asked from the time that Mortimer Smith and your client
 6
          had that conversation. Not including that time. And today back, has anyone
 7
          showed you a form similar to article one?
 8
     AB   I think since that time.
 9

10
     KS   Since that time?

11   CM   Since …

12   KS   Let’s say..

13   CM   Since your day with Joe Jordan and Mort Smith till today.

14   KS   (Inaudible)...
15
     CM   Have you seen this form?
16
     KS   Oh no.
17
     CM   Okay. I’m showing you another form, which is also a Field Activity form. It’s
18
          very sparse, it’s not.. there’s not as much writing on it as article 1. Do you
19
          agree?
20
     KS   Yes sir.
21
     CM   On the bottom right hand corner is a number 12609. You agreed?
22

23   KS   Yes sir.

24

25




                                                  45
                                     Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CM   Has anyone showed you a form similar to this, the number on bottom, asking you
 2        if you’ve seen any such form before? Namely, have you ever seen a Field
 3
          Activity form wit Joe Jordan’s name on it before?
 4
     AB   Um, he can’t answer that.
 5
     CM   Yeah I’m not asking about conversation. I’m asking, I want to ask…
 6
     AB   I understand…
 7
     CM   ..has he seen a form that had Joe Jordan’s name on it before?
 8
     AB   Well he can’t answer that because that might be the attorney/client privilege.
 9

10
     CM   Well, you know if he don’t know if it is or isn’t how can he have certainty?

11   AB   Well if it has Joe Jordan’s name on it anywhere, it would be attorney/client

12        privilege.

13   CM   So, if I would show you a transcript with Joe Jordan’s name on it you couldn’t ..

14   AB   It could be on his attorney/client privilege.
15
     KS   If it was provided to me. This is in any case. If it’s provided to me by a client..
16
     CM   I’m not asking if the client provided it. I’m saying did anyone come up to you,…
17
     KS   I’m saying… well and if you exclude clients, nobody’s ever come up to me after
18
          the fact and shown me any of these.
19
     CM   Excluding (Inaudible)...
20
     KS   Right.
21
     CM   Okay. Um, excluding clients, has anyone come up to you after the fact and
22

23        shown you a document similar to this. It’s a Volunteer Registration Agreement

24        with the name Laura Buchanan on top?

25   KA   No sir.



                                                  46
                                     Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CM   Bottom right hand corner, I’m sorry. Bottom right hand corner has a number
 2        12596, is that correct?
 3
     KS   Yes sir.
 4
     CM   Again no one shown you any form similar to this?
 5
     KS   No sir.
 6
     CM   (Inaudible)...
 7
     KS   Yes sir.
 8
     CM   I’ll give you a (Inaudible)...
 9

10
     AB   Thank you.

11   CE   You can use the other one.

12   KS   Thank you.

13   AB   (inaudible).. my pen rights better.

14   KS   Got your name on it and everything. (Inaudible)...
15
     CM   What I’d like to do is.. I’m sorry, you ready? What I’d like to do also is I want to
16
          go back to the time where ah, (phone) Mortimer Smith called you in reference to
17
          setting up an appointment with your client.
18
     KS   I’m not sure if he called me or I called him.
19
     CM   Forgive me. Um, time that you guys had a telephone conversation on I believe it
20
          was October 22nd, 2009.
21
     KS   Yes sir.
22

23   CM   Said conversation only last about 5 minutes.

24   KS   If that.

25




                                                 47
                                    Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CM   Okay. (Inaudible)... about introduction saying I’d like to speak to you and your
 2        client. I wouldn’t the, the seemed to be more in that conversation then you had
 3
          spoken about. Do you have any independent recollection what else you guys
 4
          talked about? Or why … what reason did Mortimer Smith give you to want to
 5
          reach out to speak to your client?
 6
     KS   Had to do with his search.
 7
     CM   Okay, what else did Mr. Mortimer Smith tell you about the search that may have
 8
          interest in his (Inaudible)... to your client?
 9

10
     KS   I can’t recall if it’s what he told me or what my client told me about why Mr. Smith

11        was interested in talking to him. So, I’m gonna have to assert the privilege

12        ‘cause I don’t want to inadvertently tell you something my client told me.

13   CM   Did Mr. Smith tell you at some point during that telephone conversation that he

14        had been directed to speak to your client through an individual?
15
     KS   I don’t remember. Don’t remember.
16
     CM   Did he make any mention as to how your client’s name… how he came to know
17
          your client’s name? How he knew to reach out to you ..
18
     KS   Again..
19
     CM   (Inaudible)... your client?
20
     KS   …I’m not sure if my… that was something my client relayed to me when he
21
          asked me to assist him in talking with this gentleman or something that
22

23        gentleman told me so I’m not sure whether that was something I already knew

24        from my client.

25




                                                48
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CM   Was it a surprise, was Mortimer Smith’s contacting you a surprise or were … had
 2        you already anticipated a phone call from him?
 3
     KS   Again, I’m not sure if he called me or I called him. So, if I called him it wasn’t a
 4
          surprise. I might’ve been the one to arrange it just to get it done.
 5
     CM   I don’t mean to trick buy saying he called you or you called him. I…
 6
     KS   I understand that. I’m just…
 7
     CM   …I apologize. I just trying to ah, just talk about the conversations on the grounds
 8
          of who called who. So, you don’t recall any conversation with Mortimer in setting
 9

10
          up this interview that led you to believe that somebody else said, you need to talk

11        to Joe Jordan ‘cause Joe Jordan will be able to confirm or deny a particular story

12        that they had already told Mortimer?

13   KS   Again, I don’t know if that was coming from Mortimer or not. Mortimer Smith or

14        not. I don’t know if that… information was relayed to me or something similar to
15
          that was relayed to me by Mr. Smith. Or a client if it’s relayed by a client I can’t
16
          comment on it.
17
     CM   So, the only thing you can say for certain is that during the phone you agreed or
18
          he said he wanted to meet with you and your client and you said, best time to
19
          meet.. or best place to meet would be at my office at a future date? Which was
20
          not so far after the 22nd. of October?
21
     KS   Right.
22

23   CM   But you don’t recall if he..

24   AB   Three of ‘em.

25   LB   Okay, three..



                                                 49
                                    Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   AB   Three. Alright, I followed. I should …
 2   KS   Is that…
 3
     AB   …refuse a…
 4
     KS   I think that might be your um, might be your office right there,
 5
     AB   You….
 6
     CE   This is running.
 7
     KS   You might want to step outside.
 8
     AB   I’ve never (Inaudible)... judge before.
 9

10
     CM   Do we need to ah….

11   CE   Just telling you, that…

12   KS   I answered it. Do you want me to …

13   AB   I’m sorry.

14   KS   ..close it?
15
     AB   Yeah just turn it off.
16
     LB   You guys want to stop?
17
     CE   I have one more.
18
     LB   Okay.
19
     AB   How much longer you think?
20
     LB   Couple more.
21
     CM   I just.. I just want to ask her, I just want to (Inaudible)... ‘cause I was in the
22

23        middle of (Inaudible)...

24   KS   Yes sir I’m sorry.

25   AB   I’m sorry.



                                                  50
                                     Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CM   Okay.
 2   KS   That was (Inaudible)... You got on.
 3
     CM   That’s okay. So, you don’t recall when Mortimer Smith was talking, if he told you
 4
          specifically this person or a person told you me, I need to talk to your client
 5
          ‘cause your client can either support or refute what this individual told me? Me
 6
          being Mort Smith.
 7
     KS   Again, I’m not sure where ther… I knew that. But I don’t know how I knew that.
 8
          It could very well have been Mr. Smith, but it might not have been. Might… And
 9

10
          I… and so I can’t talk about it if it’s the other source that I knew it came from. I

11        would not be able to tell you.

12   CM   You had no email conversation with Mortimer Smith before, during or after that

13        call? It was only that one point that was the only time aside from you meeting

14        him face-to-face, the only time you ever spoke to him? When he showed up at
15
          your office did you have conversation with him prior to engaging with your client?
16
          Did you…
17
     KS   No.
18
     CM   …go to another room and kind of get an idea of what he wanted to ask or talk
19
          about?
20
     KS   No.
21
     CM   Okay.
22

23   KS   I think my client might have been there before him.

24   CM   Okay. Did he arrive alone? Do you recall?

25   KS   Mr. Smith?



                                                51
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CM   Yes.
 2   KS   I don’t know how he arrived, but he was there alone.
 3
     CM   Okay.
 4
     CE   On October 27th of.. on um, when I’m working an off-duty job I got a phone call
 5
          from a fella name Joe Jordan. Never met him in my life. I’m gonna talk on tape
 6
          here for a minute.
 7
     SA   Good.
 8
     AB   (laugh)
 9

10
     CE   So, any how the fella tells me, I don’t think he brought up first that he had

11        recorded this. ‘Cause I think he was building up to that. But he mentioned a

12        great deal of things about not being in an area and concerned about what he

13        may say and being taken out of context and things of that nature. So, I started

14        making notes of those things. During that.. during that in collecting all that
15
          information. Um, he, he gets to the point where he confesses to me over the
16
          phone that he has what not is probably contraband being a recording. So, the
17
          next morning ah, so I’m not the only one that heard that. We shoot a phone call
18
          to Mr. Jordan and we talk to him over the phone and we get him to ah, go
19
          through those notes that I took in that conversation. In doing so, we must’ve
20
          stressed to him I don’t how many times. If someone’s in possession of any kind
21
          of contraband and fabricated articles in a homicide case. We will be interested
22

23        in looking into that. Please don’t destroy that recording. And that’s why we said

24        that to stress that. Here’s where I’m going with that. This is public record now.

25




                                               52
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1        Members of the defense team have it. Many other people have had it. My
 2        question is..
 3
     KS   I’m sorry, what is public record?
 4
     CE   The conversation that Sergeant Allen.. John Allen and I collected from Joe
 5
          Jordan over the phone.
 6
     KS   I see.
 7
     CE   About that,..
 8
     KS   I didn’t know what you were ..
 9

10
     CE   Him bringing that too our attention. Has anyone with this out there, I mean I

11        would think common sense would dictate um, has anyone other then your client

12        or at the time Joe Jordan, reached out to you to discuss your knowledge of what

13        occurred that day? Other then law enforcement.

14   KS   What was the lady’s name that you mentioned?
15
     SA   Laura Buchanan
16
     KS   No, no the ah, lawyer.
17
     CE   Andrea Lyons.
18
     LB   No S.
19
     CE   Lyon.
20
     LB   Lyon like..
21
     KS   Right.
22

23   CE   Andrea Lyon.

24   AB   Don’t put me in that category, my own category. I don’t want that category.

25   LB   Would you like to be another big cat?



                                                53
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   When.. when you say…
 2   AB   I got my own.
 3
     KS   …reaching out. That stuck a cord because once I realize we had been recorded.
 4
          I did not answer calls that were made to me. I believe I got a call from Andrea
 5
          Lyon.
 6
     CE   Do you remember when that was?
 7
     KS   No. I.. I.. I know it was a member of the defense team. It wasn’t Cheney Mason.
 8
          Cheney’s never talked to me about this issue. I’ve never talked to Baez in my
 9

10
          life. It may have been somebody from his office. I know I didn’t call them back.

11   SA   Have you ever seen him on the Today Show?

12   KS   I’m not.. I don’t…

13   SA   And…

14   KS   Probably.
15
     SA   Let…
16
     AB   (Inaudible)...
17
     KS   Ah… but um, somebody, my recollection now is that somebody from the ah,
18
          extended defense team had called my office, but I did not return the call ‘cause I
19
          wash my hands of it. Didn’t want to be involved.
20
     CE   Now, that you remember, did they leave you a voice message or was it an email?
21
     KS   No, I think it was um, I think it was just a message, message. You know like a
22

23        call my office and maybe my staff had taken a note, said this person called you.

24   CE   No content?

25   KS   No, no, no.



                                               54
                                  Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   CE   Would.. would you still have that um…
 2   KS   I could look for around those dates and try to find it and it I had it I’d share. We
 3
          keep.. each person has a message thing. So, I can check and see if we kept
 4
          those. That would be from the last ten days in October, so of ’09.
 5
     AB   It’d been the beginning of November I think.
 6
     KS   Beginning of November?
 7
     AB   (No verbal response.)
 8
     KS   Okay.
 9

10
     CE   Yeah ‘cause it doesn’t surprise me because as many times as we’ve mentioned

11        that there’s a possibility of um, this thing…

12   AB   Yeah.

13   CE   …being illegal if in fact this is the same form that you witnessed being shown.

14        That someone would start reaching out trying to air that out.
15
     KD   Yeah but you know I was surprised at how… I wasn’t contacted by anybody.
16
     AB   (Inaudible)...
17
     KS   I was.
18
     LB   Okay, an…
19
     CE   Oh sorry.
20
     LB   Any other questions?
21
     CE   I’m sure there are, but I can’t think of ‘em.
22

23   SA   Well, not… I’ve got.. well I’m.. I’m.. I’m (Inaudible)... I’ll talk to you about mine

24        later when we’ll handle them another way.

25   LB   Do you want to talk right now while we have him here?



                                                55
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   SA   Let’s just get it done. Some of this information we get it out the way I believe.
 2   CE   This.. I’m gonna get some clarification stuff then. A form similar to this or at least
 3
          the content was in possession of Mortimer Smith.
 4
     AB   Jesus Christ you already asked him?
 5
     KS   And shared with ah…
 6
     CE   Shared.
 7
     KS   … Joe Jordan.
 8
     CE   Okay. And who left your office with that form?
 9

10
     KS   It’s total assumption I think it was Mortimer Smith.

11   CE   All I have.

12   CM   I have nothing else.

13   LB   Alright, the time is.. who swear at the beginning?

14   CE   I don’t think so. You want to raise you right hand. You swear everything you said
15
          today was true?
16
     KS   Yes sir.
17
     CE   I’m not gonna ask was it freely given?
18
     KS   Yes sir. Didn’t even get to give it.
19
     CE   What time do you have?
20
     LB   I have 3:12 p.m.
21
     CE   Sorry.
22

23   LB   That’s the end of um, this State Attorney Investigate Subpoena Interview subject

24        to the objections that were logged (Inaudible)... counsel for Mr. Sims. That

25        maybe require your re-appearance under the subpoena.



                                                56
                                   Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB
 1   KS   Yes ma’am.
 2   LB   Thank you. We’re done.
 3

 4

 5

 6

 7

 8

 9

10

11

12

13   HIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY

14   Signed this______day of_____________________, 2010.
15

16
     CORPORAL ERIC EDWARDS , OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF
17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25




                                            57
                               Kelly Sims/Case #10-86155/GB

								
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