randiinterview
Document Sample
An Interview with
Alan Bersin
Alan Bersin met with Kris Kurtenbach and
Gloria Frazier of Collaborative Communica-
tions Group on October 10, 2006. In that
interview, Bersin analyzed the historical
sources of the widespread gridlock in collec-
tive bargaining today and outlined some pos-
sible solutions. He described the new provi-
sions of the recently passed California Senate
Bill 1133, supported by the California Teach-
ers Association, which allows a separate
negotiating zone for low-performing schools,
and summarized his vision of transforming
teaching from an occupation into a profession,
including new compensation structures for
teachers.
Collaborative Communications Group: Describe
briefly for us the current state of collective
bargaining and whether you see it as a
help or a hindrance in getting all students
to achieve at high levels.
Alan Bersin: We are clearly and classically in
a state of fixing blame rather than fixing
the problem. Unions have evolved –
unquestionably, in my mind – into the
most powerful institutions in the educa-
tion sector. Yet many of them perceive
themselves as constantly under siege.
These organizations then hunker down
fiercely in blind defense of the status
quo. School district management, itself
often arthritically bureaucratic, has gen-
erally been unable to improve student
achievement across the nation; it tends
to point fingers at unions and at the
intractability of labor contracts as the
primary causes of trouble. This is wrong
on both ends. The blame game leads to
Alan Bersin was appointed California's Secre-
paralysis and gridlock.
tary of Education in July 2005. In an unprece-
dented move, Republican governor Arnold The first bread crumb that could lead us
Schwarzenegger simultaneously appointed Mr. out of this forest would be the recogni-
Bersin to the state Board of Education, giving
tion that neither unions nor manage-
him a unique opportunity to put his stamp on
education policy in California. In December
ment alone can lead to a new, more pro-
2006, Mr. Bersin left Sacramento for a seat on ductive set of circumstances and results;
the San Diego airport authority board. Prior to that result can only be achieved by suc-
becoming the state's Secretary of Education, Mr. cessful collective bargaining by both par-
Bersin was Superintendent of Public Education ties over time. Collective bargaining
in the San Diego City Schools, the nation's right now is a joint labor-management
eighth-largest urban school district, where he
process that usually produces conflict
oversaw an ambitious districtwide effort to
strengthen instruction that produced gains in and mostly what are, at best, watered-
student achievement. He is a former U.S. down solutions to pressing problems of
Attorney. teaching and learning. That change will
2 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
occur only if both sides come to believe continue to use it. But now we must
that it is in their individual, as well as ask whether collective bargaining
mutual, interests. will get us where we want to go. . . .
I am convinced that unless we go
beyond collective bargaining to the
The Gridlock in
achievement of true teacher profes-
Collective Bargaining sionalism we will fail in our major
Today [imperative] to preserve public edu-
The current gridlock we have in collec- cation in the United States and to
tive bargaining results from the dispro- improve the status of teachers eco-
portionate influence of the short term nomically and socially.
on the actions and perceptions of the
CCG: What’s the shift we need to make, and
actors – both on the union side and on
how do we make it?
the district side. The tension we feel
comes from the fact that the long-term AB: Seniority makes eminent sense in the
interests of our public education fran- context of individual lives. A teacher can
chise, understood in terms of what quite rationally conclude: “I’ve been
would strengthen children’s learning and teaching for three years in a hard-to-staff
achievement, is given short shrift in the school. I work my heart out, and I don’t
current political calculus. get the support that I need. I have just
had a baby to start our own family. I
Al Shanker understood that the long-
will use my seniority to bid out to a
term health of public education after
much less challenging school; this deci-
Brown v. Board of Education required
sion benefits my personal and profes-
standards-based reform. He was among
sional life.”
its most ardent champions. He under-
stood the need for standardized assess-
ments. He understood the need for
accountability systems. For Shanker, Seniority makes eminent sense in the
standards-based reform was squarely in context of individual lives; but practiced
the interest of the union members he
represented, as well as the interests of systemically, it ends up producing an
the community he was a part of and the educational catastrophe for poor kids.
democracy he was interested in protect-
ing. Andrew Rotherham used a powerful
Shanker quote:
Collective bargaining has been a
good mechanism, and we should
Alan Bersin 3
The outmoded factory model
Factory-age unionism is not going to The model for public-sector unions
function well as teaching becomes a when they were organizing in the 1960s
was private-sector unions. Precisely
profession, and teaching needs to when private-sector unions were on
their way out as a major force in the
become a profession for the benefit
industrial and commercial arenas, they
of both students and teachers. shaped the collective bargaining process
for public employees. Teachers were
reacting to the same kinds of problems
For an individual, that’s an entirely sen- – inadequate pay and benefits and the
sible chain of reasoning. But practiced lack of democracy and fairness in the
systemically, it ends up producing an workplace – that had driven labor
educational catastrophe for poor kids. organizing and resulted in the Wagner
Teachers come and teachers go and the Act a generation before in the 1930s.
children remain untaught year after year. Collective bargaining in the public edu-
We know how we got there. It was not cation sector was borrowed from the
by evil design, but rather by the opera- earlier private-sector model of labor rela-
tion of a system that has placed adult tions and practiced without much
employment interests above the educa- change. Industrial unionism was over-
tional needs of children. This leads to laid onto the teaching occupation. The
consequences that were not initially would-be profession of teaching that
contemplated. But the result reflects real many seek today is far different from the
interests and existing power relations. circumstances and paradigms that drove
Unions from an industrial age are built corporate America and organized labor
on the notion that the longer you are in the first half of the twentieth century.
employed, the more experienced you The notion that all teachers are inter-
are, the more value you bring to the job, changeable and, therefore, should be
and the more rights you accrue in the paid the same and the notion that sen-
job. Only the latter observation is neces- iority trumps all other considerations
sarily true, and that’s only because col- come straight from the factory floor –
lective bargaining has arranged it that not a professional classroom.
way.
But there was no other model. What
Shanker is telling us in his quote is that
factory-age unionism is not going to
serve or function well as teaching
4 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
becomes a profession and that teaching
needs to become a profession for the Districts and unions are partners in a
benefit of both students and teachers.
tango that hasn’t led to great results, but
This historical contradiction accounts for
the labor-management tension we expe-
the dancers have grown accustomed to
rience in public education. Neither man- one another and to the dance.
agement nor labor is equipped to treat
teachers as true professionals – and
teachers, accordingly, are not acting as
CCG: What are the key sources of the grid-
such across the board. The hallmarks of a
lock?
true profession are group problem solv-
ing, operational autonomy coupled with AB: The sources of the current gridlock are
accountability for outcomes, and peer to be found in the sector’s historical
review and evaluation. These, in turn, development. If we don’t know where
are rooted in and emerge from an estab- our existing practices, processes, and
lished framework of skill and knowledge perceptions come from – in other
governing practice. words, how we got here – then we can’t
and won’t find our way out. We have to
Our tension results from the disparity
move from the rhetoric of blame and
between the theory of teacher profession-
anger, but also from the reality of
alism and the practical reality for most
mutual comfort of both parties with the
teachers in districts as they are conven-
status quo on the ground. It’s clear that
tionally arranged today. I believe we are
districts and unions are two partners
beginning to understand that the status
dancing a tango in history. The modern
quo is not a sustainable situation from
dance hasn’t led to great results, but the
the standpoint of either labor or manage-
dancers have grown accustomed to one
ment, let alone in terms of the continued
another and to the dance.
political survival of public education as
we know it today. At the same time, we Short vs. long view
proceed in a state of disequilibrium It’s a short-term versus a long-term per-
because we are not able to resolve the spective. It’s the tension between teach-
matter one way or the other. It’s ing as an occupation and teaching as a
nobody’s fault. But it’s everyone’s respon- profession. The challenge of today’s
sibility – and, I submit, in the long-term present is that we really are caught
interests of all of us – to grasp our between the past that shaped us and a
mutual dilemma and work out of it if we future that will be unforgiving if we do
can. not change.
Alan Bersin 5
To take the San Diego situation – with to alter the contract. There was a rigid
which I am familiar – as an example: allegiance to the contract, in an almost
Our 100-page collective bargaining religious sense: “This is what we negoti-
agreement grew, for the most part, out of ated in the past and we cannot and will
individual grievances. Individual cases of not give any of it back.” It is very under-
injustice, real or perceived, became a standable why a labor leader adopts
source of work rules that applied across this position, but it is reflexive and non-
9,000 teachers. This happened in San reflective. It is also completely dysfunc-
Diego and many other districts. You tional from the standpoint of developing
could look at the different sections of the new ways of seeing and new ways of
contract and see them as a zone in a geo- perceiving as a prelude to new ways of
logical dig. Different periods brought acting.
different negotiating aims, often driven
by specific conflicts at particular schools.
The Difficulty of Achieving
Rule after rule was grafted on top of the
a Paradigm Change
Paradigm changes cannot be negotiated
Rule after rule was grafted on top of on an incremental basis in collective
bargaining. At the same time, we lack
the existing framework. Always the
an intellectual framework to create com-
approach was incremental, never com- mon ground, a shared conception about
how we might move from where we are
prehensive. to where we ought to be in order to
strengthen public education.
On the one hand, proponents of so-
existing framework. Always the approach called “new unionism” call for broaden-
was incremental, never comprehensive. ing the scope of collective bargaining.
And, over time, the district lost what in The new unionism would embrace the
any rationally negotiated contract would profession and tenets of professionalism
be considered essential management in the context of the teaching occupa-
prerogatives necessary to proper func- tion. This would include being account-
tioning of the organization. able for results of practice, providing
Union leaders and site representatives teachers with much more control over
would acknowledge this situation pri- the tools of the profession and the
vately but disclaim any ability or desire application of those tools, and a signifi-
cant influence on curriculum in terms
of professional development and instruc-
tional materials. It would embrace peer
6 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
review as a mechanism of evaluation, untested theory. The arguments of the
and it would place student achievement traditional unionist and the critique
at the center of the enterprise and at from the right turn out the same: One
the heart of the labor-management should not expect the union as an
discussion. organization to act in unpredictable
From the right are heard views skeptical ways contrary to its nature.
both of the theory and practice of the
new unionism. For those critics, unions Levers for Change
are organizations with political interests
based on concrete political constitu- CCG: What are the key levers for change?
encies. It is not in the nature of the AB: I have always identified community
public-sector union organization to act dissatisfaction and loss of legitimacy as
in ways that fail to benefit short-term embodying the greatest threat to public
member interests. To expect the union education and, therefore, also poten-
to take on educational needs of children tially the most significant lever for
as a first priority is, from this perspec- change. Public education traditionally
tive, to misconstrue the situational pos-
sibilities entirely.
Moreover, there are compelling chal- Community dissatisfaction and loss of
lenges to the new unionism based on
legitimacy are potentially the most sig-
results. Observers question whether dis-
tricts where it has ostensibly been prac- nificant lever for change.
ticed, particularly Rochester and Min-
neapolis, have actually experienced sig-
nificant gains in student achievement. has been a matter of local control; it has
always relied for vitality on its link to
The answer appears to be negative.
acceptability by the public. This accept-
That’s where the current debate is, and
ance has been the key to public finance
it’s not a terribly productive one. From
and public support for public education.
within the union movement, enormous
It is the foundation for its legitimacy.
pressure is placed on new union leaders.
They are attacked by old unionists as If we don’t improve public education
being soft and divorced from the pri- sufficiently so that it retains this support
mary purposes of unions. This accounts broadly and deeply in the country, we
for the periodic unseating of new union will lose the institution. The central
leaders by the old guard who rely on
unions to maintain the status quo rather
than risk past gains on the basis of an
Alan Bersin 7
issue right now is the academic achieve- Data transparency
ment gap. If we don’t narrow and then A remarkable transformation has taken
close the academic achievement gap over place in the sector regarding data and
time – and it will take time – eventually the need for data-driven decisions.
we will lose the “mandate of heaven,” in While this is, in many places, still more
the Chinese sense. The loss would occur rhetoric than reality, a decisive ideologi-
first in the large urban centers, but cal shift has taken place. The appetite
would follow in short order elsewhere. for “useable information” will grow, gen-
The following are some of the other erating public demand for more and
potential levers for change. more data to be made available, clearly
and coherently, on the Internet. This is
State and federal accountability
bound to have reciprocal effects on
systems
responsiveness and accountability. Let-
State and federal accountability systems
ting people argue about what the data
are major levers. No Child Left Behind
mean is better in a democracy than
[nclb] and parallel state systems have
restricting access.
done more than just raise the stakes.
Their focus on disaggregated student- The Democratic Party
achievement results and on teacher qual- History has done to the Democratic
ity has increased the demand for trans- Party what it has done to unions. It’s
parency with respect to many arrange- taken progressive purpose and turned it
ments that had been shrouded in into conservative instinct. The inability
secrecy. The pending reauthorization of of Democrats to win the electorate cre-
nclb will facilitate necessary mid- ates a potential lever for change in terms
course corrections that will enhance of power relationships within the party.
transparency and accountability and The November 2006 election results are
take the initial steps toward promulgat- not to the contrary. Democrats miscon-
ing national standards. That’s going to strue these results at their peril; they
accelerate change. Opinion leaders are communicate a sharp rebuke to the
beginning to acknowledge the dynamic gop rather than even a slight endorse-
toward national standards as inevitable. ment of any Democratic direction.
I’m old-fashioned enough to prefer local The fiscal situation facing public
differences, but not when they hurt education
students. Andrew Rotherham writes about “doing
more with less.” As the population ages,
there likely will be less money available
for public education in the classroom.
8 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
The introduction of accounting stan- This option would be the so-called “thin
dards that require disclosure of contract” that could, for example, pro-
unfunded retirement medical benefits vide for differentiated pay, if necessary,
(and unfunded pensions) will create a to attract math and science teachers in
sea change but might also serve as a inner-city schools. It might provide for
potential fulcrum for significant change differential teaching loads, in lieu of dif-
that embraces notions of productivity ferential pay, with professional time set
now foreign to the sector. aside for conferring with students or
colleagues. It could provide for site-
based options that would permit a fac-
A Possible Solution:
ulty to reject a candidate for a teaching
Negotiated Options for vacancy, seniority notwithstanding.
Low-Performing Schools These examples are illustrative only.
CCG: California recently passed SB 1133, There are numerous provisions that
which outlines a new relationship with could be brought to bear in this separate
unions and new options for schools. negotiating zone. Those would be avail-
Explain its significance. able for individual schools or clusters of
schools to opt into, in whole or in part,
AB: Rather than rely on the new unionism
in an agreement that would be parallel
to create a new paradigm in one fell
to but different from the conventional
swoop, what we might consider doing is
collective bargaining agreement.
to have fully negotiated collective bar-
gaining options that would apply to The “grand bargain” in California
low-performing and low-achieving On behalf of Governor Schwarzenegger,
schools. What a union and a district we recently negotiated this kind of
might do is to offer a separate zone that “grand bargain” with the California
would attach to the lowest-performing Teachers Association (cta) at the state
schools as a matter of site choice. It level regarding $2.9 billion over seven
would facilitate conditions calculated to
create what we know is essential for a
turnaround – a superior principal, com- The so-called “thin contract” could pro-
mitted teacher leaders, a stable faculty, a
vide for differentiated pay or differen-
coherent curriculum, and outreach to
parents, who are welcomed to engage in tial teaching loads.
the education of their children. The
option could be selected by a group of
teachers and a principal and a group of
parents at a school primed for change.
Alan Bersin 9
After three years, the school will
Agreements like SB 1133 create the have a faculty whose experience
index is no less than the average
foundation for building the culture that is
experience level in the district as a
necessary to turn around a school and whole. You will have fully creden-
tialed teachers in every subject area.
produce sustained student achievement.
You will have counselor ratios that
are 1-to-300 at the secondary/high
school level and 1-to-500 at the mid-
years to be allocated to low-achieving dle school level. You can reduce class
schools. size to 25-to-1 in grades 4 through 12,
In a breakthrough that is a tribute to its but only as you meet the other
leadership and executive board, the cta benchmarks.
agreed to permit departures from provi- Choice – with accountability
sions such as seniority rules and the The possibility to choose a “thin con-
single-salary schedule, if school sites tract” as part of a “separate negotiating
elect to do so. Senate Bill 1133, agreed zone” could create and offer the same
to by the Governor and the cta and options in a broader context, applicable
approved by the Legislature, provides to all schools in a district. Proceeding
an incentive for schools that might opt this way would solve one of labor lead-
into this separate set of provisions. The ers’ major problems: getting too far out
funding will go to 500 of the 1,400 low- in front of their membership. By leaving
est-achieving schools in California. In choice to teachers at individual school
exchange for $800 per student over sites, labor leadership can best serve the
seven years, the schools chosen to partic- new unionism. This choice carries with
ipate must develop a plan to meet cer- it no guarantee of success – but it is cal-
tain benchmarks. culated to multiply the chances for it.
For the first time to my knowledge, Agreements like SB 1133 set benchmarks
what we have done in California is to in terms of operations and create the
say: “Here are the accountability bench- foundation for building the kind of cul-
marks you must reach academically, as ture that is necessary to turn around a
well as in terms of instructional opera- school and produce sustained student
tions. But we’re going to leave it to you achievement. It focuses on inputs and
to figure out how you are going to get doesn’t tell the schools how to do it. At
there.” For example, the schools that the same time, it has a series of output
will be allocated this money will have to
meet an accountability benchmark:
10 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
performance requirements that must be out. The prospects that “outside in” pro-
met; if they are not, the school loses the fessional development, in Rick Hess’s
incentive funding. There are annual formulation, can have a positive impact
milestones in the first three years on the are improved significantly.
way to each of the benchmarks.
One of the lessons from San Diego,
CCG: Play this out. What’s the potential for where we spent a half a billion dollars on
California, and what are the implications professional development, was that
for other states? absent changes in “human resource” pro-
cedures, we could not get the bang from
AB: The potential here is to help labor the professional development dollar that
leaders and district leaders overcome the we should have been getting. We typi-
usual causes for paralysis. Truth be told, cally focused mostly on the professional
neither party wants to negotiate a development side. The separate negotiat-
wholesale series of changes in the con- ing zone would permit a school to
tract that will affect everything at once. address both professional development
Because schools are at different places in and instructional operations by leaving
a multitude of ways, the safe course is to key operational decisions in the hands of
settle on the lowest common denomina- the principal and teacher leaders.
tor: maintaining the existing contract
with little change. Risk avoidance means Our sector is desperately in search of
staying close to home. This prescription evidence about how to improve student
is the “comfort zone” to which district achievement in an accelerated way for
and union leaders regularly resort. low-achieving schools. In San Diego, we
accomplished that with respect to a cer-
What we do instead is to start customiz- tain number of schools that I know well.
ing collective bargaining agreements We did not do it at scale or in a way that
away from the old industrial model. leaves no doubt about how this could be
This model posits the same provisions replicated.
applying to everyone, at once, all the
time. Politically, by providing choice
and options to schools and their facul-
By providing choice and options to
ties, labor and management permit a
school’s political dynamic to develop on schools and their faculties, labor and
its own. When a talented principal and
group of teacher leaders emerge to build
management permit a school’s political
their school and use a “thin contract” as dynamic to develop on its own.
a vehicle for doing that, a necessary con-
dition for change is satisfied from inside
Alan Bersin 11
The separate negotiating zone who teaches at their schools. The lower
I believe the separate negotiating zone, the performance of students, the more
which would not impose a solution on this flexibility and control is required.
a school or a district or a union, but Charter schools are able to gauge the
rather create the conditions and furnish suitability of teachers against perform-
incentives for schools, faculties, and ance metrics in very direct ways. The
communities to build a great school, is separate zone is an option for accom-
politically vibrant and feasible in ways plishing the same thing without resort
that another approach might not be. to the charter law.
I’ve always thought – and I think some
CCG: You’ve talked a lot about charters as an
of my colleagues at the cta in Sacra-
end run around the inflexibility or inabil-
mento agree – that it is peculiar, even
ity of unions and districts. Do you think
foolish, for us to grant charter schools
this law now provides another point of
all this flexibility while remaining so
leverage?
loathe to provide waivers, either of the
AB: No question about it – that dialectic is contract or of education code pro-
operating here. The cta understands visions, to schools in the regular district
that the dagger pointed at the heart of that want to do something differently.
public education is the academic What’s wrong with that picture?
achievement gap. We have to accelerate
Charter schools, for me, are worthwhile
the narrowing of that gap. We must do
only if they serve children more effec-
so to preserve the franchise as well as to
tively. And if they serve children more
meet a moral – and now legal – obliga-
effectively, they become a legitimate
tion in American history. To do that, we
competitive pressure on the regular sys-
must permit those local principals and
tem. That’s my brief for charter schools.
teachers who have the necessary skills
I view the separate zone proposal as a
and knowledge to have more say over
rational political response to charter
schools by district and union officials
alike. For me, only the result counts:
The separate zone proposal is a Are the children learning? Is student
rational political response to charter achievement improving? Are teachers
professionally engaged with students
schools by district and union officials and with one another?
alike.
CCG: What would you say to the governor of
another state – with a high-accountability
system like Florida or Texas – about what
12 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
they should be paying attention to in what
happens in California? What we cannot continue to do is oper-
AB: At the end of the day, in a world of ate within a framework that will not har-
professionalized teaching, instructional
decisions about how to solve individual
ness the enlightened self-interest of
cases presented by students have to be teachers to improving student achieve-
made at the local level, by professionals
on the scene, confronted with the facts ment. The separate negotiating zone
of the case. would create that potential.
If teachers have the skill and knowledge
they need to confront instructional
problems, they need to be given distinguishing characteristic of SB 1133
decision-making power and the discre- and of the thin-contract option. The
tion to apply that skill and knowledge. proposal accepts many points of the new
What I would expect this model to pro- unionism but doesn’t attempt to trans-
vide is the evidence that sufficiently form the collective bargaining sector by
skilled professionals, principals, teachers, fiat; it does so by choice.
and teacher leaders, in fact, can turn
The trade-off
schools around and can do it relatively
quickly. They can do so if given the CCG: How do you manage the district-state
framework of flexibility within which to financial drivers?
apply the same kinds of incentives and AB: The first thing the separate negotiat-
inducements that have been used to ing zone does is that it removes the col-
increase productivity in virtually every lective bargaining agreement as a mecha-
other sector in American society. nism by which the central office
What we cannot continue to do is oper- imposes on a particular school site a
ate within a framework that will not whole set of work rules and financial
harness the enlightened self-interest of constraints. It creates a shield against the
teachers to improving student achieve- power that the collective bargaining
ment. The separate negotiating zone agreement has conferred on the central
would create that potential. People bureaucracy. There’s nothing that would
would have to choose to walk through prevent the local school, negotiating
the door but they would not be running with the district, to be able to cut
into a brick wall on the other side. strings from the funding that is fur-
nished. For example, in SB 1133, one of
What’s attractive here is that it does not
impose; it creates potential. That’s the
Alan Bersin 13
its provisions, in addition to the $800 have a principal and teacher leaders
provided for each student, is that cate- who can build the capacity for quality
gorical funding received by the school instruction, then progress results in a
can be streamed together and spent in a school or in a cluster of schools.
different way, independent of any par-
ticular categorical direction.
Steps toward a New
CCG: That’s a major shift in state policy. Dialogue
Streaming is something that schools have
CCG: What are some of the obvious things we
asked about for a long time. This would
ought to do at a state level? What are the
be a way for states to say that the account-
steps to get a new dialogue or a new rela-
ability is on the achievement side.
tionship started?
AB: We would provide fiscal and opera-
AB: Here are some additional possibilities
tional flexibility in exchange for
I would suggest thinking about.
accountability. The trade-off here is very
straightforward; it is precisely the bar- Create a separate due-process
gain we make with charter schools – and mechanism
need to enforce with much more This goes to one of the central areas of
integrity. It is one we talk about but gridlock: the union’s legal obligation to
never seem to be able to get to in the defend the jobs of teachers who are
“regular” district setting: set the obviously incompetent. This obligation
accountability benchmarks, provide the precludes unions from “actualizing”
resources, and hold people accountable. their understanding of teacher quality
But when adequate leadership, skill, and and working on the issue without reser-
knowledge are in place, let them get to vation. To accomplish this aim would
the issue and determine the resource require that unions create a legally sanc-
applications their students need. If you tioned due-process mechanism for pro-
tecting teachers that is separate and dis-
tinct from unions as local collective bar-
The trade-off here is very straight- gaining agents.
This change would alter the adverse cir-
forward; set the accountability bench-
cle in place – that each grievance leads
marks, provide the resources, and hold to a contract provision. Each protection
of an incompetent teacher weakens the
people accountable.
local union’s credibility in the district
and in the community. Local political
leaders are aware of it and so are parents
and the public.
14 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
What might be considered is the cre- in teaching has shifted because of the
ation of a defense “office” that would be removal of the glass ceiling and the
countywide, statewide, or districtwide, mitigation of racism. Talented people
in which collective bargaining agree- of color and women are no longer con-
ments would allocate funds to support a fined to the teaching, nursing, or secre-
group of professionals – like a medical tarial arenas. We are no longer in a situ-
review board – who would be responsi- ation where women and people of color
ble for protecting teachers charged with are paid differently and dramatically so.
incompetence or conduct violations. The top two-thirds of college classes are
no longer entering teaching.
This would lift the individual dispute
to an administrative setting removed We need to increase the compensation
from the local political and professional level – at the beginning, middle, and
situation. It would provide continuous end of the spectrum. We need a pay sys-
due process for teachers without tem that would pay $150,000 to our
distorting the union’s involvement in teachers who succeed in teaching our
improving teacher quality and student most at-risk students. Teachers have not
achievement. broken through because of lockstep
Build bridges with newer union industrial salary arrangements. There is
members no profession that pays significant
Internal polls of nea and aft show compensation to its practitioners that
that both younger and newer teachers does not at some point link compensa-
are not where diehard industrial union- tion to performance.
ists were and remain. There is emerging Create career ladders
a whole different set of attitudes and The way in which we ought to approach
professional aspirations. The mismatch pay for performance, however, is to
between traditional unionism and start from another end of the problem.
Gen Xers is significant and offers an Changes in compensation should be tied
opportunity to support innovative union to changes in duties and responsibilities
policies. in the context of professional teams. The
Rethink compensation creation of new career ladders, geared to
One other suggestion pertains to com- improve productivity and facilitate pro-
pensation. How do we increase teacher fessional mentoring, is needed. This is
pay and at the same time increase so not only because of the potential of
teacher accountability? These are critical new career ladders to change models of
issues on which labor and management
have much to say, but neither typically
says anything at all. The labor market
Alan Bersin 15
compensation, but also because educa- Toward Teacher
tional delivery systems associated with
teaching and learning are in significant
Professionalism
need of overhaul, renovation, and mod- If we’re serious about teacher profession-
ernization. alism, we must sooner or later attach to
There is no need to insist on maintain- the occupation some of these features
ing one teacher for one class with one and dimensions. We need to pay high
set of students during the entire school levels of compensation in return for the
day, except because of force of habit. A successful resolution of instructional
better way of structuring instruction problems by a professional teacher.
might be a team of teachers, led by a Why should we not compensate teach-
master teacher, that has responsibility ers who significantly raise academic
for 150 children. This team would shape achievement for students who are far
the instructional day to the needs of below basic – who bring them up to
children and allocate teaching talent proficient and can do so, year in and
based on the needs of the instructional year out? If we don’t acknowledge that
program. That would permit us not value and compensate that value added,
only to begin to modernize the educa- we’ll continue to wait for progress in the
tional delivery system, but would also sector.
start to generate concepts of suitable
Legislatures can provide resourced
career ladders for educators. This devel-
incentives to proceed down these paths
opment, in turn, would open up possi-
– and can do so on a large-enough scale
bilities for differential pay on a glide
so that we’re not talking about pilots.
path to merit pay. This scenario com-
We can start to encourage the seismic
pares well with the rocky road we’re
changes that many union and district
currently on regarding “pay for perform-
leaders recognize need to happen –
ance” that seems destined not to pro-
Albert Shanker, for example, would have
duce any positive result in the foresee-
stated the case more precisely and much
able future.
more eloquently than I can. Professions
are based on accountability and high
standards. With that comes status and
Professions are based on accounta- compensation – not by reason of power
bility and high standards. With that and process, but because of the results
our society seeks and secures.
comes status and compensation.
16 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
An Interview with
Randi Weingarten
Randi Weingarten met with Kris Kurtenbach
and Gloria Frazier of Collaborative
Communications Group on November 7,
2006, the day after agreement was reached
on a two-year contract that would boost the
most experienced New York City teachers’
salaries to more than $100,000 and would
mean that between 2002 and 2009, teacher
salaries will have risen by at least 40 percent.
Weingarten said that the current conversation
on merit pay presupposes a condition that is
not valid for teachers, whom she says work in
a framework of social justice, not capitalism.
Weingarten also said she wants to put an end
to the debate of whether unions will or should
exist and focus, instead, on creating a climate
of collaboration. And she outlined what it
would take to develop an environment in
which collective bargaining could be used to
move toward a commitment to collective
responsibility.
Collaborative Communications Group: Describe
where you think collective bargaining is
today and how you see it as a help or a
hindrance to getting all students to achieve
at high levels.
Randi Weingarten: There has been a shift of
responsibility – without the wherewithal
– onto individual schools and individual
schoolteachers. It’s been both good and
bad.
The good news is that society has said,
through the President and many other
elected leaders, that schooling is impor-
tant for all kids. There is universal
acknowledgment of that now. It used to
be just us progressives who said that!
But all of a sudden, now the capitalists
think that too because given how infor-
mation and goods and services and
commerce can be transmitted so quickly,
you do have a global economy. And you
no longer can have, in the United States
of America, good working- and middle-
class jobs without having at least a
Randi Weingarten is president of the United decent high school education. Conse-
Federation of Teachers, representing more than quently, the economic transition has
140,000 active and retired educators in the New now pushed a political transition:
York City public school system since 1998. She is regardless of where you are on the politi-
also a vice president of the 1.2 million-member
cal spectrum, you realize that kids have
American Federation of Teachers and a board
member of New York State United Teachers. She to have good, decent educations. So
served on Mayor Michael Bloomberg's transition that’s the good news.
committee following his election in 2001. Previ-
The bad news is: There is an ideological
ously, Weingarten was a high school history
template in terms of how to get all kids
teacher in Brooklyn, where she helped her stu-
dents win several state and national awards. educated. And so you see a whole bunch
Before becoming a teacher, she practiced law in of people say, “If those teachers just
New York. worked harder, all kids would learn.” It
18 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
just shows an absence of understanding
and knowledge about the education of Teachers work plenty hard, and con-
children. So that’s one line of argument.
tracts help create fairness that enables
The second line of argument is: “And if
we didn’t have collective bargaining con-
teachers to work effectively.
tracts, we wouldn’t have impediments.”
For people in the trenches – rank-and-
file educators, people who woke up one piece there. They may not talk about it
day and said, “I want to be a school- that way. They may talk about it in
teacher” – both arguments are wrong. terms of “I care about kids.”
Teachers work plenty hard, and con- So when you start compensating them
tracts help create fairness that enables based on a capitalist or entrepreneurial
teachers to work effectively. How can model, that’s not the incentive base that
you say that somebody who came into they work on. They work on an incen-
education to make a difference in the tive base that says, “This is my social
lives of kids is not working hard contract: I will work really hard because
enough? I love this work. Give me the conditions
that I need to do my job well. And give
The Right Incentives me a middle-class salary so that my fam-
ily does better than my parents did.” It
What’s pay-for-performance about? “We doesn’t matter if you talk to new teach-
give you this incentive to work harder.” ers, teachers of the X generation, the Y
It’s totally antithetical to who school- generation, the baby boomers. If you
teachers are. People make a decision to persist with them, you’ll hear that same
become schoolteachers not because they message repeated over and over again.
are entrepreneurs; they make a decision
What’s the root of this big push on
to become schoolteachers because they
these kinds of incentives? It’s rooted in
want to make a difference in the lives of
two things. One, there’s not enough to
children.
pay everybody, so let’s pay just a few.
The whole notion of merit pay – I’m And second, it’s rooted in: If manage-
not talking skill and knowledge differen- ment does this sorting process, it will
tials, I’m talking about paying people for motivate people to work harder. Both of
the test scores of their students – pre- those notions are problematic for us.
supposes a condition that just is not
valid for teachers. By and large, teachers
go into teaching to make a difference in
the lives of kids. There is a social justice
Randi Weingarten 19
thousands of different decisions (if
Contracts are annoying for the same you’re really good at it) in a differenti-
ated manner over the course of a day.
reasons democracy is annoying: It’s
And the person who has a real stake in
annoying to engage and give everyone it – the person who feels on top of her
a voice. game, who feels like she has the confi-
dence to teach, the knowledge to teach,
is willing to take risks and be totally in
It’s so easy for conservatives to say – just it – that person is going to be a far bet-
like they do in the corporate sector – ter teacher than someone who is always
just get rid of the union and get rid of looking over her shoulder and thinking,
the contract. It’s no different than some- “Oh my goodness, what will the super-
body wanting not to be bothered or visor say? Am I doing my ten minutes
hampered by workers having a voice of guided reading or direct instruction
anywhere. I am sure that contracts are the right way? Am I doing my whole-
annoying. And that union presidents language script or direct-instruction
like me, or union officers and chapter script?” They script the teacher’s behav-
leaders, are annoying to managers ior, not the content. But scripts are
because they have to engage. They have scripts.
to engage in a conversation; they can’t So, who do you think is the better
just unilaterally implement ideas. I’m teacher? The person who says, “I got my
sure it is annoying for the same reasons content down; I have a toolkit of how I
democracy is annoying: It’s annoying to transmit this information so I can differ-
engage and give everyone a voice. entiate based on the kids in my class-
But the payoff is huge – because educa- room; and I have the latitude to do
tors are physicians of the mind. In any things in the way I see fit” – is that the
classroom you’re in, a classroom teacher better teacher, or is the better teacher
is managing somewhere between fifteen the one who is scared silly that she is
and thirty, or thirty-five, or forty young going to be rated unsatisfactory because
minds. You are trying to pull out infor- her classroom is not arranged in groups,
mation from them. You are trying to because the bulletin boards aren’t done
engage them. So you are a physician of as prescribed, or because the mandated
the mind. And you are making and number of minutes in a particular lesson
dealing with probably hundreds, if not has not been followed?
What I would say is that collective bar-
gaining can create a huge opportunity
20 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
here, where the focus is on quality and trusting, less “gotcha” environment,
giving qualified teachers the professional teachers would not be fearful of the
latitude they need. The collective bar- word accountability.
gaining process can actually be used in a
hugely positive way to try and focus on CCG: What would it take to create that envi-
what needs to be focused on. And in ronment?
this environment, what needs to be RW: Last year, we did a lot of so-called
focused on is teacher quality. contract reforms. Joel Klein’s responsi-
bility was to implement them fairly and
Sharing Responsibility creatively, not as a way to do “gotcha.”
You have to be very careful when you
and Accountability are seen as having more authority. You
CCG: So you would move collective bargain- can’t be abusive. This is why the pendu-
ing in a direction similar to what you did lum is now swinging back the other
in this most recent contract? way.
I saw it in terms of other things, too.
RW: The new contract is about respect and
We created a swap of time in 1995, so
stability. The teachers do not trust man-
that teachers were no longer monitoring
agement because they have been treated
the cafeteria or halls, but doing profes-
in such an arbitrary and unfair manner.
sional things instead. It’s a huge, very
Some of that’s because of No Child Left
positive change. But principals didn’t
Behind and the focus on test scores to
know how to use the time. So they
the exclusion of all else. Some of it is
advocated for teachers going back to the
because of the climate created by the
cafeteria. It’s ridiculous.
city’s chancellor, in which teachers don’t
feel respected for their work. Our mem- I’ll give you another example – profes-
bers like this contract; but with the sional development. We had professional
exception of the salaries and new peer development in the 2002 contract: fifty
intervention program proposals, it is not
innovative. Innovation requires trust,
and right now that is in short supply. If we could create a more trusting, less
So the big difference is not in where the
“gotcha” environment, teachers would
responsibility lies but in how. Because if
you’re willing, we can use the collective not be fearful of the word accountability.
bargaining process to share responsibility
and share accountability. And I would
argue that if we could create a more
Randi Weingarten 21
minutes a week of professional develop- where it worked. And in those places,
ment and fifty minutes a week of small- they are angry that they lost it.
group tutoring. That’s what we agreed
Unfortunately, the conversations at the
to. On the tutoring, the mayor got criti-
bargaining table and in implementation
cized, because not every single student
are always about the abusers, not about
was going to get small-group tutoring.
figuring out how to enhance learning
And so, instead of fighting it out and
and teaching conditions for the vast
saying, “it’s important that kids who are
majority of people who do a good job.
falling behind get small-group tutoring,”
The union wants to curb abusive super-
the city immediately said we should
visors, and management says it wants to
make it full-class instruction. And we
stop what it perceives as people taking
said, “That’s not what the deal was;
advantage.
we’re not going to do that.”
And the so-called professional develop-
Union-Designed Charter
ment – instead of looking at this as fifty
minutes that could be used for common Schools
CCG: How do you change that paradigm?
RW: First, there has to be trust and respect.
You could use a chartering process to One reason I like the public charter
experiment with how to cope with these schools (when there is not the issue of
union versus non-union) is that I think
new paradigms, focusing on teacher you could use a chartering process to
quality and professionalism and on the experiment with how to cope with these
new paradigms, focusing on teacher
union’s role in those things. quality and professionalism and on the
union’s role in those things.
planning time, or as a time to do things We have two charter schools. It’s not
teachers really needed and time to allow perfect. The philosophy behind our
teachers to engage with one another – charter schools is that the union con-
instead of doing it that way, it was top- tract is an aid, not an obstacle. It’s the
down, patronizing, condescending. So if same contract as for all schools. The
you talk about professional development contract itself has a school-based option
in my membership these days, you get a waiver process. So it can be imple-
collective “yuck,” except in some places mented differently, based on the site.
CCG: What’s different about how the union
or management are working in those
22 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
charters? And what you are learning that real. The State University of New York
can go forward? forced me to be the chair of the board of
the charter schools. They said, “You have
RW: It was a democratic process. We
to have direct accountability, not indi-
started with a rank-and-file committee,
rect.” So, I am the chair of the board.
plus some staff people, many of whom
were the nay-sayers: “We hate charter So, the responsibility here is that it’s very
schools!” Frankly, there are some charter important to me to have an arms-length
schools that I really disliked, too. But relationship with the staff, so that they
some people said, “Let’s put our money know the collective bargaining contract
where our mouth is. We have this prevails. In some ways, it’s a safeguard
teacher center. We know what we’re for us. We believed that collective bar-
doing.” They came up with a design of gaining was a positive, not a negative –
an elementary and a secondary school, that you could use the contract and the
and we went to the delegate assembly, flexibility that the contract provides as
two meetings of this 3,000-member an opportunity to take risks. Because
body. The first meeting (January) was to when you have a contract that’s fair and
put it out there and the second meeting
(February) was to take a vote. Because
we thought this was such a significant When you have a contract that’s fair
change in policy, we wanted to make
sure the delegates had the information and people have trust in it, then you cre-
ahead of time. ate conditions for teachers to take risks.
And it was an amazing process. The
vote was 95 percent to 5 percent. The
people have trust in it, then you create
committee did a presentation, not me; I
conditions for teachers to take risks.
just presided over the debate. The uft
Delegate Assembly voted to give us the Remember what I said about “physicians
authority to submit a charter school of the mind.” You want a teacher walk-
proposal. By doing it in this manner, it ing in who has the confidence to take a
was clear that the members, through the risk, the confidence to say: “Let me try
delegate body (there’s one delegate for this. Let me see if it works. Oh, shoot, it
every sixty members), gave us the doesn’t work; let me try something else.”
authority to proceed. You want people who spend their nights
thinking, “This didn’t work, but if I try
We wanted to prove that the contract is
not an obstacle. The responsibility
became that of the leadership to make it
Randi Weingarten 23
this, maybe it will.” Somebody who will it was creating a climate of teacher pro-
go into a common planning time and fessionalism and teacher voice. And part
say to other teachers, “You know, this of it is creating a climate of parental
thing didn’t work, but this really responsibility and input – then finding
worked, and somebody else should try the resources so that the teachers not
it.” So it’s the confidence to take a risk only feel confident to take a risk, but
and to share. Part of the charter is creat- also have the resources to do their jobs.
ing that climate; the collective bargain-
The two charter schools are in East New
ing agreement doesn’t create it on its
York (Brooklyn). I’m a secondary school
own, but it’s a huge plus.
educator and a lawyer. So I’m not going
CCG: Do you see it happening? to pretend or profess to understand how
to do this for elementary school chil-
RW: Yes. I see it happening more this year dren. The staff spent a lot of time creat-
than last year in the elementary school. ing and then perfecting that positive cli-
The secondary school is quite different mate model. And what has happened is
and had a smoother opening than the that this year, when you walk into the
elementary. We actually learned a lot elementary school, the teachers feel that
from our mistakes last year. You have to they “got it.” Even the new teachers. We
work the climate all the time. You have have the more experienced teachers
lots of people – and people together in paired up with new teachers. There’s a
any organization can become a dysfunc- mentoring process and things like that.
tional family. But you want them to be a They spent a lot of time on that. And
family. You hope that you are creating they also lowered class size in the lower
enough of a positive climate and that grades.
they feel that way. Part of this was the
collective bargaining agreement. Part of We also spent a lot of time focusing on
the culture of the school – especially in
terms of behavioral methodologies. We
You have to work the climate all the have a very positive behavioral reinforce-
ment process called crest and paid a
time. You have lots of people – and lot of attention to promoting positive
any organization can become a behaviors.
dysfunctional family. But you want
them to be a family.
24 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
Taking Innovation to Scale
Both sides have to agree on a goal you
CCG: How might you take it to scale?
both want. Both sides have to walk in
RW: You cannot take any of this to scale
unless there is trust. I’m sorry to each other’s shoes.
dampen people’s views on this. There is
no way to take things to scale unless
others thought: We’re going to get the
management is willing to walk in the
union out of there. Now whenever you
shoes of labor and unless unions and
attack the viability of somebody’s exis-
members feel the same responsibility as
tence, of course they’re going to fight
public management does. You need to
back. When someone says, “I want to
have that trust on both sides.
destroy you. Will you cooperate with us
We don’t have it on either side. There in trying to destroy you?” – who would
are individual schools that have it. But answer that question by saying, “Fine,
when you bring something to scale, roll right over me”?
both sides have to take responsibility.
And what tends to happen these days is CCG: How can both sides get together on cre-
that the more a union leader takes it, if ating a collective bargaining agreement
the management side does not, then the that is not negative?
union leader is in peril. You can’t do it RW: Both sides have to agree on a goal you
on your own. both want. Say that goal is teacher qual-
The easiest role for a union leader is to ity. Then figure out how to get there,
say no; the easiest role for management and what your needs and limitations are.
is to blame the union. And then figure out what the other
side’s needs and limitations are. Both
CCG: The relational issues between union sides have to walk in each other’s shoes.
leader and superintendent are key. You might not be able to live with each
RW: Relationships are key. There’s always a other’s needs; you may be frustrated by
power relationship that exists, but there the other side’s limitations; but you have
has to be a trusting relationship, where to put all of that on the table. And I
you trust and respect the other side’s have to articulate management’s needs as
role and responsibility and display a well as I can articulate my own. And
willingness to compromise as a way to vice versa. It’s the only way to get to an
further the work – in this instance, help- implementable result. And then you can
ing children learn. For a long time in say, “This is what we do, this is what we
New York City, I think that Joel and a need – where’s the common ground?”
lot of conservatives and foundations and
Randi Weingarten 25
started this. We said to uncertified
If teacher quality is important, then what teachers, “We’ll help you get your certi-
fication, but it’s not acceptable to have
are all the things that help promote
uncertified teachers.”
teacher quality – pay, safe schools, Then, in 2004, in that abny speech, I
lower class size? You put all of that stuff proposed another iteration of this pip
program. I said, “Look, let’s have inter-
on the table and try to figure out how to veners work with people who are strug-
address each issue. gling in the classroom. And if they can’t
help them, let the fact that they tried
and failed be admissible in a disciplinary
Because if you actually want to get some- hearing.” Because if teacher quality
thing that works, then it’s less about really is important, then it’s important
what’s written in the paper. It’s not about in both ways: it’s important in the posi-
what happens the day the contract is tive way, and it’s important in the nega-
announced. It’s about what happens in tive way.
the schools and how it gets implemented So that’s the kind of thing you could
and whether people have a stake and buy actually get to in an exercise. If teacher
into it. quality is important, then what are all
the things that help promote teacher
CCG: So the work really starts after the con-
quality – pay, safe schools, lower class
tract is negotiated.
size? You put all of that stuff out on the
RW: That’s how get to scale. Take our peer table and you try to figure out how we
intervention program [pip]. If you read address each of these issues. Indeed, our
my Association for a Better New York new contract has adopted a form of this
[abny] speech, you’ll see that in 1987, pip proposal at the same time as it
we embraced a peer intervention process. raises salaries to $100,000 for experi-
This was a way to help floundering enced teachers.
tenured teachers. We would mentor
them, and if we couldn’t help, we would
A Commitment to
counsel them out of the profession. And
some of my members were scared. Collective Responsibility
They’d say things like, “People are going A union might say to you, “We need to
to see us make mistakes,” or, “This will address all these issues.” You might
erode due process.” Sandy [Feldman] think the union would say, “Just raise
salaries.” Management would say, “Just
26 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
get rid of bad teachers.” But the best put pressure on them, and if they do
deal would be one where you have the well, we’ll reward them.” It’s clever. It’s
trust to address both. not terribly dissimilar to the Bush
administration saying, “We’ll get rid of
CCG: That’s a shift of paradigm in this Social Security and you can do your
country. own investing.”
RW: Right. The shift is superintendents It’s this whole notion of individual ver-
acting “tough” with teachers. Superin- sus collective responsibility. I’m a big
tendents get up and say, “You know, I’m believer in collective responsibility.
not like those old superintendents. I There are some people – and God bless
know that we have to fire bad teachers. them – who become rich and have all
And I will fire bad teachers. And I the individual responsibility and author-
will go against the union to fire bad ity they want. But for most of society,
teachers!” American democracy is based on collec-
So what if management says that? Man- tive responsibility. We cede some of our
agement saying that is just like my say- individual rights to have collective
ing, “Management is terrible. They are responsibility and representative democ-
the ones who are incompetent, not the racy. That’s not socialism; that’s not
teachers. What really matters here is that communism. That’s ceding certain
teachers need a raise. They work hard, things to have a democratic structure.
so they need more money.” That’s like Hillary Clinton and others
saying, “It takes a village.“
That’s not crossing the Rubicon. It’s not
crossing the Rubicon when a ceo or an CCG: Focus on the implementation phase
entrepreneur says, “Let me start a char- versus the collective bargaining
ter school.” It’s crossing the Rubicon contract–signing phase. Legislative types
when a union leader says, “I will be an
entrepreneur and take responsibility for
what this charter school looks like.” And American democracy is based on col-
I said, “Tell me, New York Post (for lective responsibility. We cede some of
example), who has taken as much risk
on your side of the debate as I have our individual rights to have representa-
taken to do this?”
tive democracy.
The paradigm right now is: Education is
important and we need to help all kids.
So today some people are saying, “Let
those teachers do their job. And we’ll
Randi Weingarten 27
tend to think that once the contract’s how many years? Each year, a new
signed, that’s the incentive to make change. panacea gets implemented top-down;
But the contract is only a limited numbers and then when it “fails,” it’s replaced by
piece; it doesn’t drive trust. a new fad.
RW: Look at the difference between Tony CCG: Just to close on the charter piece, you
Alvarado’s lack of success in San Diego had said you hoped to have indirect, not
versus his success in New York. Why direct, authority. At the end of the day, do
was Tony so successful in New York? you still think one is better than the other?
Tony had a partner in the uft – first
Sandy Feldman and then me – who said RW: It could have gone either way. I
that failure was not an option. And frankly would argue that given my time
when all the pushback happened, as it constraints (since the accountability
always does when there is change – even would have been there anyway), it
with positive change, you are going to would have been better if it had been
get pushback and you try to work delegated authority. The chair would
through it – when the pushback hap- have been someone who could devote
pened, we engaged. Tony didn’t have more time to it. I would argue that dele-
that in San Diego. The blaming and fin- gated authority can be just as effective as
ger pointing happened instead. direct authority. The governor is not the
chair of every single task force or agency.
The only way to effect change systemati- The governor appoints people who have
cally is when people see that it really can delegated authority.
work. So you start with models that
people can touch, can feel, and can put CCG: So there’s the importance of making it
their arms around. Instead, schoolteach- public.
ers have seen the “fad of the year” for, RW: What you want is transparency. The
term accountability has been manipu-
lated and, like professional development,
The term accountability has been though it is good, it has a negative cast
manipulated and has a negative cast to to it. Public accountability is a good
thing, except when it’s used as a weapon
it. Public accountability is a good thing, – when it’s used as a sword against peo-
except when it’s used as a weapon. ple – instead of as a way to create a col-
lective responsibility. That’s why people
fear it rather than embrace it.
28 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
CCG: What do you see as the state role here? The Tasks Ahead
RW: Whether or not there should be
CCG: What next steps would you suggest in
unions should not be a debate. We are
regard to NCL B and state accountability?
here to stay. In terms of the state role,
if you want to create incentives, I RW: There is a two-step answer. First, we
would create incentives that promote need to get the balance right. Right
collaboration. The state can’t imple- now, the balance is too skewed toward
ment, but it can create a climate and an testing in math and English. I’m not
environment. sure how much teaching is going on in
the schools in the United States of
CCG: What would be an example of an America, even in English and math,
incentive for collaboration? because the consequences for not doing
RW: The school district would get a signif- well on standardized tests are so great
icant infusion of funds, a grant, if they that in many schools and classrooms,
worked together with the collective bar- education has been transformed into
gaining agent about how that money simply test prep, test prep, and more
would be spent. That would be a pretty test prep.
big incentive to work together. Of The second step is the balance of
course, the state would earmark it for an accountability as a process for continu-
education reform area, such as teacher ous improvement versus accountability
quality. The union might want it ear- as such a punitive measure that we are
marked for teaching and learning incentivizing really bad behavior, such
conditions; namely, what it is that teach- as test prepping and cheating.
ers need to do their jobs or what schools
need to do their jobs. But the money’s CCG: What could happen in NCL B or at the
not available unless there is a plan for state level to shift that balance?
how they work together and do the
follow-up steps, the implementation.
Consequently, it puts the pressure on Implementation of NCLB on the federal,
both sides to talk about how to use
resources effectively. state, and local levels has not worked
as envisioned. Part of that is money,
part is implementation issues, and part
is how the law was initially launched.
Randi Weingarten 29
Now here’s a really controversial subject,
We want virtually all kids to succeed. and one I’m not sure how I feel about.
Why not look at the naep tests and
Nobody is going to accept a 50 per-
make them a single, national academic
cent, 60 percent, 70 percent gradua- testing standard? There are negatives and
positives to that – lots of them. But hav-
tion rate.
ing the conversation is important. As I
said before, I believe we’re assessing more
than we’re teaching. And tests are a key
RW: We need to come up with a different to that measurement. Yet if you want
measure of what constitutes success and standards, you need to have measures so
failure. That’s why AYP needs to be you know what kids can do.
reevaluated. The notion of transparency,
When I talk about the balance between
the notion of looking at kids individu-
testing and teaching, I mean that we’ve
ally, the notion of focusing on achieve-
seen far too much narrowing of the
ment gaps – all those notions, in the
curriculum – in terms of both a con-
abstract, work. What happens is that
tent-rich curriculum and variety (social
implementation on the federal, state,
studies, science, and art).
and local levels has not worked as envi-
sioned. Part of that is money, part is Incremental, sustainable change
implementation issues, and part is how CCG: Those issues come up all the time in
the law was initially launched. national hearings and community forums.
But you don’t hear a lot of discussion
CCG: So dialogue at the state level could help
about what to do about it. People are
to start to address that.
happy that test scores go up but, more and
RW: All states have to have accountability more, the public and educators are very
systems. Look at the dialogue that critical of the over-reliance on testing.
started on standards. It started with What do we do instead?
the state governors. It started with Bill
RW: You have to figure out how to change
Clinton and Al Shanker and others. It
the conversation. The best long-term
started with the governors saying, “How
success in education is incremental and
can we do this? What’s the midcourse
sustainable. The same is true with most
correction?” And they see it in their
public issues. Take crime. When crime
states that way.
goes down incrementally, the governor
stands up and says, “Great! That’s suc-
cess.” Nobody expects there is going to
30 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
be a murder rate of zero. In the city of to incentivize improvement that is incre-
New York, when there are fewer than mental and sustainable. Right now, the
700 murders in a year, that’s success. climate is: “If you don’t make ayp, hor-
rible things will happen.”
But in education, we want virtually all
kids to succeed. So nobody is going to Beyond literacy and numeracy
accept a 50 percent, 60 percent, 70 per- CCG: Teachers in the field are starting to
cent graduation rate. We say and believe make the point that measuring growth is
that virtually every child must succeed. important. We often hear it more in teach-
Our obligation is to help all kids. So ers’ language than in leaders’ language.
this is where the rubber hits the road.
Nobody is going to be able to say: RW: Teachers get it. But what teachers also
“Sixty, seventy percent graduation, that’s get is that education has to be more than
great.” No governor can get up and say literacy and numeracy. We have a job in
that. But what I’m saying is, each year public education to help kids develop
you want to see incremental, sustainable social and life skills. Kids need a sense of
progress, however you define that. right and wrong and to know that there
are consequences for bad behavior. We
If the incentive is in the public praise need to help them learn how to be on
when you get galloping scores, well, time and how to dress and how to take
that’s what makes testing, testing, testing responsibility. Whatever you call that,
the dominant dynamic. I don’t know that’s taken a back seat to the focus on
about the rest of the country, but look math and English test scores.
at the scores in New York City. In the
third, fourth, and fifth grades, they go You start it when kids are in kinder-
steadily up. Then, after that, they go garten. How do kids play? Playtime was
down. Some would argue you can test about social development. It was about
prep to get to better results in the lower getting along with others. Playtime has
grades, but you cannot test prep to get been squeezed out of kindergarten. You
to better results in the mid-level to see it in boys. Many are bored to death
upper-level grades where kids need
higher-order thinking skills.
We did a survey and found there was The best long-term success in education
more test prep per week in New York is incremental and sustainable.
City elementary schools than there was
social studies and science teaching com-
bined. So, the accountability system has
Randi Weingarten 31
myth perpetuated in the last few years
The teacher union leaders I know talk that if we put enough pressure on, the
unions will be gone. That’s not going to
about how to help all kids learn. We
happen. But those who believe that will
look at collaborative collective bargain- never engage with a union in construc-
tive dialogue on how to promote stu-
ing as the vehicle to do that – and we
dent achievement.
talk about how the union can facilitate
CCG: You hope to bring focus to a shift in
this process. thinking about professionalism.
RW: Really think about who teachers are.
The focus must be on how to promote
in junior high school with double peri- and honor professionalism. Educators
ods of English and math. We’ve been are not entrepreneurs; they are people
saying, “Why don’t we engage them in who believe in helping children learn.
music and art and other things that kids They want to be treated fairly and given
care about?” the wherewithal to do their jobs well.
What we do in our secondary charter Your question about scalability pushed
school is that we have an internship me to think about implementation and
each week: teachers during that time can trust. So the third thing I want to leave
do professional development; the stu- people with is this: there are many of us
dents tutor younger kids in reading. who would be quite willing, in a trustful
Here’s an idea: maybe there should be environment, to take collective responsi-
a requirement that all kids have an bility. The teacher union leaders I know
internship – maybe do it in junior talk about how to help all kids learn. We
high school, to help build a sense of look at collaborative collective bargain-
citizenship. ing as the vehicle to do that – and we
talk about how the union can facilitate
Promoting teacher professionalism
this process. We talk about how you
CCG: What is the one thing you want others treat teachers as professionals, because
to get from this conversation? they are the opportunity agents.
RW: I want to change people’s opinions.
Unions are not the enemy. If that does-
n’t happen, positive educational change
won’t happen. The teacher unions are
not going away. We have to debunk the
32 Collective Bargaining in Public Education: A New Dialogue
Shared by: Douglas Stewart
Douglas Stewart
Account Manager
CWB Financial
Other docs by douglasmatthewstewar
