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									                     IUA Aviation Technical Committee
 Chairman: Mark Hiller                                        Secretary: Christopher Jones
 Senior Vice President, XL Re                                                IUA of London
 XL House                                                      London Underwriting Centre
 70 Gracechurch Street                                       3 Minster Court, Mincing Lane
 London EC3V 0XL                                                         London EC3R 7DD
 Tel: 020 7933 7713                                                      Tel: 020 7617 5447
 Fax: 020 7469 1005                                                     Fax: 020 7617 4440
 E-mail: mark.hiller@xlgroup.com                      E-mail: christopher.jones@iua.co.uk

                                           MINUTES
                          THURSDAY 21 FEBRUARY 2008 AT 9.30AM
                                AT THE OFFICES OF XL RE
                          70 GRACECHURCH STREET, LONDON EC3

Attendees:     Janet Sadler (AIG, In the Chair), David Wood (Allianz GCS), David Whiter (Aspen
               Insurance), Mario Avenati (Generali), Martin Jackson (Aspen Insurance), Patrick
               Cove (XL Re), Jette Varnals (AIG) and Christopher Jones (IUA, Secretary)


1. Apologies for Absence

1.1     Apologies had been received from Mark Hiller (XL Re, Chairman).


2. Minutes of Meeting

2.1     The minutes of the meeting held 17 January 2008 were agreed.


3. Matters Arising

3.1     IUAI Survey of Members

3.1.1    It was reported that ATC had not sent a response to IUAI on the basis that all but two of
         the ATC members had been sent the survey as individual members of the Union. David
         Whiter stated that he had felt that providing comments singularly from his own company’s
         perspective may not be representative of ATC as a whole but that he would consider the
         survey again and contact the Secretary as appropriate.

3.1.2    The Chairman reported that initial indications suggested that the level of response to the
         Survey had been relatively good, which would be useful in identifying areas where the
         Union’s performance could be improved or should be more focussed in the future.
         Action: David Whiter to provide comments as appropriate


3.2     AICG – Publication of AVN1D France

3.2.1    AICG had considered the ATC letter querying why there had not been a formal
         consultation on the proposed publication of AVN1D France. Upon consideration AICG had
         written to the Associations noting that a consultation would now be initiated. It had also
         been decided not to publish an English translation of AVN1D France, so as to avoid
         discrepancies or anomalies in the translation from English to French. It would therefore be
         the responsibility of the insurer or broker to undertake a translation if required.
3.3     Education - CII Aviation Module / IUA Committee Structure

3.3.1    Further to the discussion at the last meeting, Patrick Cove had spoken with John Hobbs
         (IUA) about the aviation representative to RITEC (Reinsurance, Training and Education
         Council). It had been confirmed that IUA were undertaking a review of their education
         committee structure, which would likely lead to a new committee being formed. Given the
         current focus and work of the respective education groups Patrick Cove felt that it may be
         more appropriate for the aviation representative to attend the newly formed Education
         Committee meetings rather than RITEC. This was endorsed by ATC, who also offered to
         give feedback on specific issues as arising. Patrick Cove agreed to continue to provide
         representation accordingly.
         Patrick Cove to attend IUA Education Committee, as and when reformed

3.3.2    There was further discussion on the status of the aviation module in the CII syllabus. It
         was reminded that CII were reviewing their syllabus structure and, due to low applicant
         numbers, may look to downgrade the aviation module, perhaps by moving it within a
         general MAT module. It was noted that CII, as a commercial entity, had no obligation to
         consult with the market on any proposed changes to its qualifications or syllabus, but had
         expressed a willingness to meet with interested parties.

3.3.3    It was reiterated that it was important to keep the aviation module as a standalone module.
         However, it was acknowledged that greater market participation and input in the drafting of
         the syllabus and marking exam papers would be beneficial. The Secretary agreed to
         obtain further details on the status of the CII review and report back accordingly. The
         Chairman also agreed to liaise with a key broker driving the issue of aviation education.
         Action: Representations to CII via IUA, Chairman to contact broker

3.3.4    It was noted that there was a similar issue with the marine market, where it had been
         decided to develop an alternative syllabus, which would be accredited by Cii and subject to
         exemptions under their revised syllabus. It was considered that this remained an option for
         the aviation market to consider.


4. Professional Fees

4.1     Claims representatives from AIG and Allianz had attended the meeting at LMA on 14
        February to discuss professional fees. There had been some uncertainty on the format of
        the meeting as it had been expected that the service providers and/or brokers in attendance
        would give a presentation on revised proposals for collecting monies. However, the meeting
        had essentially been a debate on the current market practices.

4.2     There was a general discussion on the key issues hindering the prompt collection and
        payment of fees to service providers and it was clear that there were differing views on the
        reasons for the evidenced problems and potential solutions therein. As such, whilst the
        machinery was already in place to address this issue (third party agencies and slip clauses),
        putting it into practice clearly required a renewed and greater will for change by the market.

4.3     It was confirmed that, at present, it remained the brokers’ responsibility, within their
        brokerage, to collect fees and forward them on to the service provider. However, it was
        noted that in some cases this had not been upheld by insurers as forcefully as it may have
        been. Looking forward it was clear that many brokers were keen to outsource this function.

4.4     As a matter of principle it was questioned whether insurers should have a role to play in the
        collection process. It was noted that insurers were not deliberately withholding payment and
        that, under normal debt collection rules, if the service provider had an outstanding invoice
        then this should be dealt with as with any other debt, i.e. through the service provider
        instructing an agent to recover.
4.5   There was a consideration of the Lloyd’s rules for the agreement and settlement of fees,
      particularly on agreement by the leader only. It was agreed that the same processes were in
      place for the agreement and settlement of claims, therefore there was no reason why the
      treatment of fees should be more difficult, as long as the protocols were in place.

4.6   It was commented that direct engagement between the service provider and insurer would
      allow a speedier resolution; however, there would be clearly be issues arising with the
      brokers on the practicalities of this.

4.7   The Secretary noted that a further meeting was scheduled for 4th March. It was agreed to
      ensure that the Company Market was suitably represented. The Secretary agreed to
      circulate further details of the meeting, arrange ATC representation and, if possible, circulate
      the minutes from the 14 February meeting and also a report from Aon mentioned at that
      meeting of their trial with a third party service provider.
      Action: Secretary


5. Market Reform - Stage II Checks and Xchanging Products

5.1   Jette Varnals reported on the working party meeting that had taken place on 11 February.
      There had been a discussion on the existing aviation checklist, which was currently being
      revised by Xchanging in line with the Stage II products that they would likely be offering. It
      had been provisionally felt that the checklist was sufficient, but individual companies would
      likely provide feedback on the paper as revised.

5.2   It was confirmed that IUA had asked Xchanging to provide differential pricing structures for
      Stage I and Stage II products, so that those not requiring a Stage II check would not pay for
      it in a bundled service charge (as was the case presently). Further details on this were
      awaited from Xchanging. It was noted that as a lot of aviation business was now not going
      through the Bureau then the demand for the Xchanging products would be reduced.


6. IUAI AGM 2010 – Report on Developments

6.1   Representatives from the Steering Group were in the process of visiting hotels and other
      relevant venues in the two cities that had been identified as potential hosts for the 2010
      AGM, Brighton and Manchester. Accordingly, a report would be given at the next meeting.


7. Electronic Market Reform Contract Endorsements

7.1   The circulated documents were noted for information. It was commented that vigilance
      would be required with regard to ensuring that the SDD entry on the electronic endorsement
      template was correct.


8. Xchanging Issues

8.1   In the absence of the Xchanging representative there was no specific items raised. It was
      agreed that it was regrettable that the representative was not in attendance to discuss a
      number of recent problems experienced by members with regard to Xchanging meeting their
      service level turnarounds, particularly on to the Insurer Market Repository and delinking.


9. Any Other Business

9.1   There was no business raised.

10. Next Meeting - Thursday 20 March, 9.30am, in the offices of XL Re.

								
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