Transcript by wulinqing



Doug Johnson: Good Evening! This is Doug Johnson and this is “The Truth
About Debt Relief!”

Welcome everyone this evening. Kevin, my assistant, is back in the studio with
us tonight. Kevin, how are you doing?

Kevin: Oh, I‟m doing great tonight. We‟re not driving around all over the country.
Last week, we were driving through a storm in Georgia while I was trying to talk
to you on the cell phone. That was a bit difficult.

Doug: Yeah, yeah. Thank you for joining us, last week, under difficult

We have a special show tonight. During past shows, I have interviewed
providers of debt relief programs. And I‟ve opened the lines for our listeners to
ask questions of those providers. But tonight, Kevin, we‟re going to do
something a little different and it‟s based on our requests from our listeners.
We‟re going to, uh, bring Doyle Breuchner onto the line and we‟re going to make
him available to take questions and offer advice and counsel for the alleviation of

Kevin: Good

Doug: Yeah. Now, Doyle is founder and director of the Liability Management
Group and he was on our show a few weeks ago as you recall. And we had a
tremendous response. We got calls and emails and letters all week long from his
visit with us. So, we decided to bring him back on and make him available to
answer questions. Now, that number to call to speak to Doyle is 800-688-WLAC.
That‟s 800-688-9522. Or you can call *9522 on your Verizon wireless.

Kevin: And, also, I just want to mention that if anyone wants to talk to us any time
during the week, uh, Doug and I are available to, um, listen to their specific
situation. Just call us at 615-942-1221 anytime between about 9 o‟clock and 5
o‟clock anytime – that‟s central time – during the week. And we‟ll be glad to just
listen to your specific situation and give you some options.

Doug: Yeah. And before they open the line and take your calls this evening, I‟d
like to talk about a topic of importance. Uh, Kevin, I believe it is important to be
aware of all of your options prior to making any financial decisions.

Kevin: I agree

Doug: I don‟t think anyone would argue with that. Getting out of debt, for most
people, is a major financial decision. It‟s a decision that effects them for the
remainder of their lives. And you and I see that more so than anyone, probably.
Yet, I talk to people everyday who are struggling to make payments on their
credit cards or some who are delinquent on their credit cards and they‟re woefully
uninformed as to their options. And I see people go and file bankruptcy and they
don‟t know that there‟s anything else out there. And, of course, I‟m not against
bankruptcy and for some people it‟s their only option. But, I think that people
should be aware of other potential options before they go to that extreme. That
should be a last resort for most people.

Now, I conduct eight webinars each week to educate people as to all their
options to get out of debt.

Kevin: And, what, what exactly, is a webinar?

Doug: Well, a webinar is a presentation over the internet. You watch the video
portion on your computer. You listen to the audio portion on the telephone over a
conference call.

Kevin: So, how long are your webinars, Doug?

Doug: Well, they‟re 30 minutes in length.

Kevin: ok

Doug: uh, huh

Kevin: and these are when? When do you, when do you conduct these?

Doug: These are, they start at noon and 5 p.m. central standard time and the
reason for that is that so that people can listen to these, oh, uh over their lunch
hour or while they‟re waiting for traffic to dissipate after work.

Kevin: ok, so these are like a 30 minute class over the internet.

Doug: Yes

Kevin: and, then to get on to one of your webinars which are, like you say,
Monday through Thursday at noon. So, you‟re talking at lunch time from noon „til
12:30 central time.

Doug: That‟s correct.

Kevin: And then 5 o‟clock, say, at the end of the work day.

Doug: uh, huh
Kevin: They can sit there at their desk. They don‟t want to tell the boss what
they‟re doing but they can listen to your webinar. They don‟t have to talk!

Doug: Well, most people are off the clock at 5 o‟clock.

Kevin: Yeah, and they can wait „til the traffic dies down and listen to your
webinar. Then, you know, put on their coat, get in the car and go home.

Doug: Right, Yeah.

Kevin: Sounds like a good idea.

Doug: If, in the central time zone, that‟s a good time. If they‟re not, eh, hopefully
it‟s still a convenient time for people ..who are in the pacific time zones or the
mountain time zones. Or even the eastern time zones. Some people have
flexibility in their lunch hours.

Kevin: And they don‟t have to participate if they don‟t want to. They can just sit
and listen.

Doug: Right

Kevin: And they can attend as many as they want.

Doug: Sure. Yeah.

Kevin: Ok

Doug: And it. Yeah. I mean, some people, eh., we know that, uh, talking about
your debt is, uh, or debt in general is a private financial matter, matter. Most
people don‟t want to, uh, know who people are when they come onto call or
conference call or even, sometimes, people calling on the radio here. And, so,
we don‟t expect people to introduce themselves. They don‟t have to talk. They
can just come and listen and observe. And we‟re fine with that.

Kevin: Ok, so then they just go to www.debtrelief hyphen, uh, or dash

Doug: I say dash

Kevin: ok dash, hypen

Doug: That little line

Kevin: ok, dash

Doug: Some people call it a hyp hen, some people call it a dash.
Kevin: The Truth dot com. So, www, uh

Doug: dash
Kevin: dash. No, no, debt relief . www debt relief dash or hyphen the truth dot

Doug: right

Kevin: ok. And then they, the instructions are there for them to log into the
webinar. Is that correct?

Doug: Yes. It‟s listed under Learning The Basics, Debt Relief 101. That‟s what
they need to click on. Ah, ok.

Kevin: Ah, very good. Well, I‟m looking forward to the first one.

Doug: Yeah, well thanks. It‟s tomorrow.

Kevin: That‟s right. Tomorrow at noon. Great.

Doug: OK! Well, it‟s time to open the lines for our listeners to speak with Doyle.
Again, that number to call in is 800-688-WLAC. That‟s 800-688-9522 or they can
dial *9522 on your Verizon wireless.

So, how are you doing this evening, Doyle?

Doyle: Hey, good evening Doug! This is Doyle.

Doug: Huh, huh.

Doyle: Doing well. Uh, by the way, before we get into it, I want to let you know
I‟m excited about your webinars as well. I‟ve seen the powerpoint. And, uh, uh,
it‟s just, uh, I was just really excited because it‟s, uh, you know, basically a free
education for people and kinda goes over all the different options and I think it‟s,
just, there‟s not enough out there that‟s just, you know, education, uh, to help
people make a decision, uh, that comes with no strings attached. So, I think
that‟s a great service you guys are providing.

Doug: Oh, well, thank you. You know, it‟s just. All it costs them is 30 minutes of
their time. So thank you very much about your comments there. Well, Doyle,
we‟re going to take calls, of course, this evening and, um, we had people who
called in last time we had you on the show. And they expressed an interest in
having a free consultation with you and, so, that was the basis for bringing you
back on here, this evening. Uh, prior to receiving some of those calls there were
a few things I wanted to ask you about.
Doyle: OK

Doug: General questions, financial questions, and these are some questions that
people had, uh, I believe that they wanted to talk to you about. I want to first talk
about debt consolidation. That‟s a very common form of debt relief. Can you
explain to us what debt consolidation is and, uh, what you provide in the way of
debt consolidation?

Doyle: Well, uh, yeah, debt consolidation, uh, is sometimes misunderstood.
There‟s really two different, uh, types of debt consolidation. Uh, in the, in the real
sense debt consolidation means basically taking a lot of debts and rolling them
into one - you know, getting a loan, uh, whether it‟s a refi on a house or an
unsecured personal loan and taking your debt and putting them all into one, you
know, for a lower interest rate or lower payment. That‟s true consolidation but
when you‟re saying debt consolidation, uh, what a lot of people think debt
consolidation is, is kind of, uh, uh, misunderstood to mean consumer credit
counseling. And, and, uh basically, uh, the way consumer credit counseling
works is, and and there‟s a lot of, there‟s hundreds of consumer credit counselors
out there. Uh, basically, you know, you get a hold of a consumer credit
counseling type company and then they just work with your creditors to, uh, lower
your interest rates, and as they say, lower your interest rates and payments and
you make one payment to the credit counseling company and they disperse, uh,
that payment to your creditors. And that‟s how consolidation and independent
consumer credit counseling is supposed to work. And what most people, they
think of that like a consolidation but it‟s really not. It kind of is because you‟re just
making one payment to a third party company but your debts are not being
consolidated. So, there‟s a little misunderstanding about how that works.

Doug: Ok. And what is your opinion about the efficacy of, uh, debt consolidation
programs administered by credit counseling companies?

Doyle: Well, uh, honestly, uh, I don‟t have a very good opinion of them. Uh, uh,
because, you know its, the truth is that consumer credit counseling type
programs, um, the customer of the consumer credit counseling company is not
the person in debt. Um, you know who customer is? It‟s actually the credit card
companies. Uh, that‟s who they‟re actually working for. Uh, and..

Doug: So you‟re, you‟re saying that the credit counseling companies work for the
credit card companies?

Doyle: Exactly! They actually get paid, uh, from the credit card companies a
percentage of the amount of debt they‟re able to collect from consumers. And,
and, so it kind of creates a conflict of interest there. Uh, and uh, honestly, you
know, basically I deal with, uh, people, all the time, every day, you know, talking
to them about their specific situation and I just know by experience that, you
know, uh, consumer credit counseling companies can be an option for a very
small percentage of people. But it‟s, it‟s very unusual for it to actually make
sense because of, for a lot of cases they actually don‟t lower the payments. Um,
because, typically what they‟ll do is they will lower the interest rate, some, but the
payments, typically will remain the same. And for most people that are really
struggling with debt, that‟s actually, uh, not enough. You know they need more
help than that. So, that‟s one of the reasons. But then the other thing is, you
know, this is also something that could, just as easily be done, um, by the person
without paying the, you know, counseling fee as well. Uh, so, you know that‟s just
a couple of things, uh…

Doug: Now Doyle, you said that they work for the credit card companies and that
they receive monies or profits from those companies. Yet most of them
represent themselves as non-profit?

Doyle: Yes. Uh, non-profit is just a way to organize a business. You know, it‟s
just another business model. And uh, you know that some of the highest paid
salaries in the country are CEO‟s of non-profit corporations? Uh, you know it‟s
not that there‟s not people that make money, in fact a lot of money, in non-profit
corporations, but the fact of the matter is that the company itself is not supposed
to show a profit. So, of course if all the money is paid out in salaries they cannot
show a profit as a company. You know, so, really that‟s also another confusing
thing to people. You know, if you hear “non-profit” that makes you think that, you
know, their just kind of like a public service, you know, and that‟s just simply not

Doug: My opinion, Doyle, is, you know, people hear “non-profit” and they think
it‟s a non-profit, that it‟s a ministry of sorts.

Doyle: Right, exactly. And, um, that‟s just simply not the case in a majority of the
times. Uh, the other thing about credit counseling type, um, you know, about
going back into a debt is, and this one of the other things that I just really don‟t
like about doing that is you lose control. Um, you know we‟ve heard, uh, you
know, I‟m sure everybody, all the listeners have heard on the news about
consumer credit counseling companies that have basically taken people‟s money
and not dispersed to the creditors properly or not on time and then they‟re stuck
with late fees and everything else. Uh, and even companies that have taken
money and gone out of business. And, uh basically the client has just been stuck
hanging there, too. So, one of things about consumer credit counseling
companies that I don‟t really like is that you lose control as a customer. You lose
control of the situation because you‟re hoping and praying that, actually, the
company you‟re working with is going to be a good company and forward the
money properly. But, you know, a lot of times that doesn‟t happen.

Doug: Yeah. Doyle, let me interrupt you and give out the number, again. The
number to call in is 800-688-WLAC. That‟s 800-688-9522. You can also reach
us by calling in on your Verizon wireless. It‟s *9522. We‟ll take calls whe n we
come back. Please stay with us. This is the Truth About Debt Relief.


Doug: We‟re back on The Truth About Debt Relief. Hi, I‟m Doug Johnson. My
guest, today, is Doyle Bruechner of the Liability Management Group. Doyle, we
have a caller, here. Stand by. Ok.

Theresa from Antioch: Theresa from Antioch.

Doug: Yes, Theresa from Antioch you‟re on the air.
Theresa: Uh, Uh, I‟m in a situation right now where my husband is recently
retired and on a fixed income and I, uh, am building a business of my own based
on commission level. And to get my business started, uh, between personal and
business debt, I‟ve probably racked up about $40,000 on my credit card and I
have excellent credit but I‟ve kind of painted myself into a corner. So, I wonder
what my options might be as far as getting a handle on this. Um, I can hardly
turn around and take a breath. So, Doyle, what do you think?

Doyle: I‟m sorry was that Theresa?

Theresa: Theresa. Yes.

Doyle: Alright. Well, thank you for calling Theresa. Uh, You‟re basically saying
your cash flow is not covering your debts with your , is that right?

Theresa: Yes, and when the cashflow does come in its incrementally, you know.
My level is on commission. My husband is social security and, other, pension
income but, basically, to get my business started I kind of over extended myself.

Doyle: Right. Well, Theresa, there‟s several different ways that would make
sense depending on your situation a little more detail. Are you paying high
interest on these credit cards right now?

Theresa: Luckily, our credit is good enough that I have been able to pick up more
credit cards and dance to another, you know, with a zero or very low interest
rate. And when that one runs out, I dance to another. So, I‟ve been doing this
dance and I always stay on time. So, I‟ve been doing very good but..

Doyle: Well, one way. There are really two thing to look at because it‟s really a
cash flow problem right now. The first thing is to look at the expenditures. And,
basically, budgeting. Looking at where the money going. Kind of setting out,
working on a 90-day plan and seeing, actually, where you‟re spending your
money and seeing if there is any holes that could be plugged in the spending to
help alleviate some of the cash flow pressure. Uh, what we find, typically, is just
by doing that exercise with our, helping people do that with our clients, uh, we‟re
able to save, typically five to ten percent of household income just by, you know
because most people don‟t even realize where their spending their money. And
it‟s an easy thing to just stop and save and increase their cash flow. So, that‟s
really the first thing I would look at.

And, the second thing, uh, is, since your interest rates are already low on your
credit card debt, um, so, you know you‟re already in a good position there.
There‟s no way to really call, and you‟re doing the balance transfers. So, you‟re
doing the right things, there, to keep the interest rates low. Um, but your
payments are probably running you about 2% of the debt. You‟re probably
looking at about $800 per month or so. So, $800 to $1000 or more, just in
minimum payments on credit card debt. Uh, so, one other option that you have
and this may or may not make sense for you depending on other circumstances.
But, you know, you could actually consolidate that into – you have good credit –
so, into an unsecured personal loan. Or even a, doing a refinance, or something
available so you can get that payment lowered to help increase the cash flow,

So, that‟s the first thing I would look at to see if we could get your right side up.
Doing those two things. And then, basically, when all is said and done and,
honestly, you keep going in the hole. Um, you could keep doing that for awhile,
you know, while you build your business. So, if it looks like your business, you
know, is going to be increasing that income, then you can continue that process
until it does cover itself and, then, get on the plan and pay off the debt rapidly.
Uh, but, you know if that never did happen. None of us can count the eggs
before they hatch. You know, none of us know the future. Um, then, then, you
know if that weren‟t happening and you keep going further and further in the hole
in the future then you‟d have to look at something more aggressive to be able to
take care of that whether that was, like I said, a debt negotiation option but, uh,
does that help give you some direction, Theresa?

Theresa: It does. I understand that you need to negotiate with credit card
companies but it always hurts your credit. Is that the truth?

Doyle: Yes, it is. Because when you do a negotiation program, um, no one will
negotiate, creditors won‟t negotiate unless you‟re behind on your debt. And
anytime you‟re behind on your payments you‟ve got several downsides you have
to consider like bad credit, phone calls, collection notices and all that. So,
honestly, my goal for my clients to keep them out of debt negotiation whenever
possible. That‟s why I would look at those other two things I talked about first.
But, you know, like then again for somebody who‟s completely upside down and
there just isn‟t a way to pay to pay the credit card, then honestly, negotiation can
be, you know, a valuable tool for that person.

Theresa: Well, thank you Doyle. That‟s been very helpful.
Doyle: Ok Theresa. Thanks for calling.

Doug: Yeah, thank you, Theresa, for joining in for this evening.

Theresa: Thank you. Bye-bye.

Doug: Doyle, I noticed in your literature that it says that, “a typical American
family pays $39.87 in interest every day.” Uh, I don‟t know of anyone who would
not go to extremes to reduce a water leak or something along those lines if it was
costing them $40 per day. Why do you think that people are not overly
concerned about interest?

Doyle: You know, that‟s a good question, Doug. Uh, it‟s kind of an amazing
thing. I, uh, really think it goes back to, uh, our education, the way we‟ve been
brought up. Uh, there‟s a lot of reasons why people don‟t really are not that
concerned about interest but you‟re exactly right. I mean if we‟re paying $40 per
day, which is the average, uh, in just in interest. I mean that is a lot of money.
And that adds up very fast.

Doug: Doyle, can you hold that thought. We‟ve got another ca ller here. Can you
hold that thought for a minute. Let‟s take this call. Mike in Donelson, you‟re on
the air.

Mike: Yeah, I had a question for Doyle. Uh, when you go about trying to pay off
your credit card debt is it always best to start with the card that has the smallest

Doyle: Was that Mike?

Mike: Yes.

Doyle: Ok, Mike. That‟s a great question. You know, uh, when you‟re talking
about ordering your debts there‟s actually two main philosophies. Uh, one is just
what you said, Mike, to start with your smallest balance and then work through to
the larger balances. And that‟s actually very solid. Uh, if you‟re going to be doing
this on your own and that‟s what I actually recommend that people do when
they‟re doing this on their own. It‟s a very, very good way to do it. And, basically,
you just don‟t worry about the interest. You know it doesn‟t really matter the
interest rate. You just start with the lower balances. The reason that works is
because, um, it pays off the smaller debt it gives you a sense of progress.
Obviously, it builds your moral which keeps you going on the program. Not only
that, as your getting rid of those debts, the earlier ones, that then frees up the
money that you were spending in minimal payments and that builds your, uh,
what I call your Spend Smart Factor. That builds that extra amount of money that
you can pay the principle onto your other debts even faster. And it‟s a , uh, it‟s a
very good roll-up process. So I would recommend that.

You know, there are other thoughts out there about paying the highest interest
rate debts first. Um, and, um while there are some mathematical reasons why
that can make more sense, it‟s really not the best way to go. If you have a large
debt with a higher interest rate, you‟re going to be very discouraged, you know,
trying to stay on that path for several years to get that first debt paid off. And,
so, you‟ll see a lot better results if you start with a smaller balance.

And then, there‟s some very complicated mathematical formulas that people use.
Uh, one of them is what we call the “payoff method” where you divide your
minimum payment into your balances. And then, rate your accounts based on,
you know, which one is easiest to pay off. And that‟s another very effective way,

But I think, for most people, if you just start with the smallest balance – you know,
if you‟re doing this on your own – that‟s just what I would recommend for most
people. It‟s the easiest and it really makes a lot of sense.

Mike: Alright. I was kind of curious. Thank you very much.

Doyle: Alright. Thanks for calling.

Doug: Yeah, thank you, Mike.

Mike: Thank you. Bye-Bye.

Doug: Doyle, we have another caller that has another question about interest
rates and we left off talking to you about interest rates. Let‟s go ahead and take
this call.

Doyle: Ok.

Doug: Sarah from Nashville. Thank you for calling in. You‟re on the air.

Sarah: Hi Doyle. This is Sarah.

Doyle: Hello, Sarah.

Sarah: I really didn‟t have a question. I have a comment.

Doyle: OK

Sarah: Um, I think people have been brainwashed, especially in America, about
interest rates. That it‟s just a normal way of life and we need to work it into our
budget and go ahead and buy the big house, have the big mortgage, and go
ahead and buy the big Lexus and have the big car payment. Well, I have a
different frame of mind. I feel that it‟s good to pay cash for a car, pay what you
can afford. I bought a Toyota at auction and was able to pay cash for it. I
downsized and was able to pay off my mortgage. I‟m 50 years old and have
been able to, instead of spending money on interest, just take that money and
invest it for my retirement. And, um, so now I have money set aside for
retirement. I have money set aside for my kids. They‟re in college. And I just
wonder what is this, you just feel like people just accept that as a normal way of

Doyle: Well, Sarah, I mean I‟m happy for you because you‟ve applied to your life
a lot of the principles that we teach. And that‟s why that we teach these
principals because, you know, interest is such a drain. And it robs, it robs our
family of a future is really what it does. And I think a lot of it just goes back to
we‟re not taught what interest does. And, you know, if you look at conventional
wisdom, people out there – financial planners, financial gurus – a lot of them are
focused on asset building. And, you know, you have your stock brokers,
insurance agents, your financial planners and conventional wisdom is mostly
focused on building assets and they forget about the other side of the equation,
your liabilities. You know, your net worth is your assets minus your liabilities.
And people are so focused on increasing assets that they forget about their
liabilities. They don‟t think it‟s a big deal. So, that it ends up, at the end of their
life, you know, looking back, the majority of people, you find out, that their
liabilities robbed them of their net worth and …

Sarah: Don‟t people, like, when we have a lot of interest, we‟re paying, we‟re
having to pay all these people off, that we become a slave to the lender.

Doyle: That‟s from a very good book I read.

Sarah: Yeah, I think I read that book, too.

Doyle: Yeah, and, you know, it‟s very true. The slave to the lender. And, you
know, it‟s something we‟re not taught in the mainstream. And I really think that‟s
really the main reason we‟re having so much trouble for people in this country is
we‟re not paying attention to what‟s true. We‟re just living our lives and we‟re
really worrying. We‟re not really planning what we need to be doing. We‟re just
getting so busy focused on living our lives that we‟re not thinking about the
interest that we‟re paying.

Sarah: Well, I‟m getting ready to move my mother into assisted living and I can
tell you how expensive that is. She‟s 81 years old and it‟s, like, $3700 per month
rent for her assisted living apartment. So, I want, at 81, if I need to go to assisted
living I want I want to have the means to do that because I don‟t want my childre n
to have to worry about me.
Doyle: And Sarah one other point I‟ll make about this, too – and, this is a great,
great point – is that it‟s not just the interest that we pay over our lifetime because
that‟s horrible in and of itself. You know, we‟re talking hundreds of thousands of
dollars if we‟re not on a plan to get rid of our debt but there‟s something called
opportunity cost. And that‟s the opportunity loss that we could have had, like you
have right now, when you‟re out of debt you have an extra 2, 3 thousand dollars
a month now that you used to paying your creditors for your mortgage, and your
house and your credit card debt and all that. But now instead of paying it to your
creditors you can invest that and then concentrate on building assets. A nd, if you
look at any financial charts, you know, with a 6%, a 10% consistent annual return
on your investment, you know, if you could put 2 to 3 thousand dollars a month
into an account because you‟re out of debt, you‟re going to generate hundreds of
thousands, over a million dollars over a pretty quick time frame.

Sarah: And you‟ll have great peace of mind doing it.

Doyle: Yes, absolutely. And so that‟s the opportunity cost of paying all this
interest over a lifetime that most people don‟t even consider.

Sarah: Yes. Well, thank you so much Doyle. I enjoyed talking to you.

Doyle: Alright. Well, thank you for calling, Sarah, and great job!

Sarah: I‟m enjoying the radio program. Thank you so much.

Doyle: alright.

Sarah: thank you. Bye-Bye.

Doyle: Bye-Bye

Doug: Wow, Doyle, we need more callers like that, huh?

Doyle: We need debts. We need the country, everyone to be like that. That‟s
what, that‟s what we‟re trying to get everyone to. Absolutely.

Doug: We need her in the studio, next week. Yeah. The number to call in is
800-688-9522, that‟s 800-688-9522. You can also call us on your Verizon
wireless at *9522. I also want to mention that during the week our office number
is 615-971-0489. That‟s 615-971-0489. We would love to speak to you during
the week. We‟d love to hear your comments about our show. We can also be
reached through That‟s debtrelief, it‟s either dash or
hypen, right Kevin.

Kevin: Yeah, hyphen
Doug: He says hyphen, I say dash. That‟s debt relief, hyphen or dash, the .

Kevin: Doyle, you know, I, as you were talking to Sarah, it occurred to me that a
lot of people who are getting in trouble with credit card debt because of these
seminars that teach people to leverage their..take their credit cards, go to the,
pay for the seminar with their credit cards, then using the credit cards to buy
stocks, or real estate. In other words other people‟s money to build assets. And,
so, I‟m wondering what your opinion of, of that philosophy is.

Doyle: Well, Kevin, kind of what I was alluding to earlier when I was talking to
Kevin is how people are so focused on assets they forget about the liabilities and
the interest cost. And, um, honestly, my opinion about doing things like that, um,
borrowing money to invest in stocks, real estate, you know, anything if you‟re
borrowing, if you‟re sacrificing, personally, if your borrowing money that‟s going
to effect your personal life is that, it is a dangerous proposition. It‟s a gamble.
And, uh, I was hearing some music. Do we, are we going into a break?

Doug: It‟s time for a break and when we come back, Doyle‟s going to talk about
Money Merge Accounts and HELOCS. But please stay with us. This is the truth
about debt relief.


Doug: We‟re back with the truth about debt relief. I am Doug Johnson. My guest
today is Doyle Breuchner with the liability management group. And we‟re going
to take the next caller.

James in Arizona, thank you, so much, for holding on here. How can we help

James: Ah, yes, I, I have a question for Doyle.

Doyle: Yep. Hello James.

James: Ah, Doyle, why is it important to get rid of the mortgage, ah, mortgage
payment while, while we can have, uh, you know, it‟s a tax write-offs.

Doyle: Uh, that‟s a great question, James. Uh, actually, I‟m glad you asked that
because it ties right into what we‟re talking about before the break. You know,
there‟s a lot of financial planners out there who will tell you to never pay off the
mortgage because, you know, they‟ll that as the last tax deduction we have. Uh,
and basically what they‟re talking about is that, you know, your interest that you
pay on your mortgage is, is taken off of your gross income before your tax is
calculated. Uh, and generally you‟re talking, you know, about the people in the
25% tax bracket. You‟re talking about, you k now, 25% of the interest that you
pay on your mortgage is what you actually get as tax savings, uh, at tax time.
So, there‟s some savings there but let me ask you a question. Ok, if you did
have a mortgage how much of that tax, uh, how much of that money you were
going to pay into interest would you keep in your pocket?

James: All of it!

Doyle: Well, almost! You have to pay taxes on 45% of it. So, you‟re going to
keep 75 cents of it in your pocket even after you pay the taxes. So, would you
rather have 75 cents or would you rather have 25 cents?


Ok, so that‟s the thing. And, I run across clients, sometimes, that are really hung
up on keeping their mortgage because of that specific reason. And, I have a
simple answer for that. If you want to keep your mortgage, I‟ll tell you what,
here‟s a plan, strategy. Let‟s get your house paid off and then when your house
is paid off you can pay me the interest, send me 20 thousand dollars a year, at
the end of the year I‟ll send you a rebate of five-thousand dollars so you can
send it to the IRS to get that tax deduction.

So, you know, that‟s basically the way I feel about that. And, just to tie that in a
little bit more with the conversation we were talking before the break, uh, there‟s
really two classes of debt. There‟s personal debt and business debt. Um, and
when I‟m talking about taking debt, personal debt, getting personal debt and
investing it in the stock market or any other investment, it‟s a gamble. You‟re
gambling with your personal future. Now, if you‟re talking a business where
you‟re buying a rental property or something like that and it‟s paying for itself out
of cashflow, then that business debt I have no problem with that. You know, it‟s
in a business name and it‟s all separate. It‟s not gambling with your personal
future. But when you‟re gambling with your personal house and taking that
money and investing it – and I, personally have done this – in fact, if you talk to
me, uh, seven years ago, I would have said you‟d be crazy to pay off your house
because I would rather pay the 6 percent interest and double my money every
five years, investing. Uh, and that‟s the way I used to think. And I‟ll tell you what,
I lost a lot of money doing that. And I learned a very hard lesson. And now I
teach people, we don‟t want to gamble with our personal money. You know,
business debt, that‟s a different story but when it comes to your personal money
don‟t take on extra personal debt so you can invest with it. That‟s really what I

James: Invest in your future.
Doyle: That‟s right. Invest in your debt by paying off your debt rapidly and then
you can take extra money and play with it in the stock market. And, you know,
you can do that and be safe and you‟re not gambling with your future.

James: Thank you so much. Thank you.

Doyle: I appreciate your call, James.

James: Thank you.

Doyle: Yeah, thank you James.

Doug: Thank you. Doyle, I think a perfect example of that is the young lady who
called in earlier, er, who talked about paying off her mortgage and buying cars at
auctions and so on. Look what she, she did, she accomplished with that. She
had a retirement and funded her children‟s, uh, college.

Doyle: That‟s right. And it goes back to the same thing we were talking about.
People are so focused on assets but people‟s liabilities are the biggest piece of
their net worth and a lot of times it gets overlooked.

Doug: It sure does. Now, before the break I started to ask you about HELOC‟s
and Money Merge Accounts. There seems to be a lot of interest those areas and
a lot of people approach me about that particular issue. Can you comment on
that, please.

Doyle: Sure, uh, there‟s several companies out there that are marketing, they‟re
mlm companies is what they are.

Doug: Define mlm for us, here, this evening.

Doyle: Uh, multi-level marketing. Uh, you know, basically their marketing is done
by, um, word-of-mouth, and, uh, you know, just network marketing type
companies. And, uh, their basically marketing a HELOC program where they‟re
telling people to, to, uh, get a second mortgage, um, a HELOC, which is a home
equity line of credit and, actually, uh, get rid of their checking account and, and
deposit their income into their HELOC and pay all their bills out of their HELOC.
They actually have no, no assets. All you‟ve got is debt and their saying that
because of the way interest is calculated on the HELOC that it‟s not a closed end
loan, it‟s an open end line of credit, that you‟re gonna, they‟re touting that you‟re
gonna save hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest and get rid of your debt
in a half to a third of the time. And, so that‟s really kind of all the rage out there.
There‟s quite a few different companies doing that. But my take on it, Doug, is,
I‟ve done a lot of research on it, too. I‟ve actually run a lot of spreadsheets on
the numbers. Uh, I‟m really good with numbers . Uh, it‟s just something that I
Doug: I hope so.


Doyle: And that‟s why I enjoy helping people with debt. But I‟ve actually run a lot
of calculations and numbers and spreadsheets on the HELOC program. And,
come to find out there is benefit to having a HELOC. But it is very miniscule.
Um, because you have the lowest amount of debt every single day and the
interest calculated on the day. On the average 30 year mortgage, it‟ll save a
person 3 months just by having a HELOC. Now, where they‟re getting the big
savings and what they‟re telling, um, is really because of what they call the
discretionary income which is the extra money that, that can be applied to
principal. And, you know, you could simply take that extra discretionary income.
If you have $1000 a month or $500 per month, extra, and throw it on your
mortgage, you‟re going to get the same result and, actually, better because
you‟re not going to pay a $3500 fee to join a HELOC program. So, honestly, I
believe it‟s smoke and mirrors and, uh, and I can prove it with numbers.

Doug: So, can you make that available to us – that research, if – for our listeners
who email us during the week?

Doyle: Absolutely. Yep!

Doug: Ok, it‟s time to take another break. This is the truth about debt relief.
When we come back, we‟re going to be talking to Doyle about financial planners
and other financial experts who sell products. Please stay with us.


Doug: We‟re back with the truth about debt relief. I‟m Doug Johnson. My co-
host, this evening, is Doyle Breuchner with the Liability Management Group.
And, I believe Kevin has a question.

Kevin: Yeah, Doyle, do you know who won best actor, yet, or have they given out
that award? Or, movie of the year?


Doyle: You know my wife is over at her friends‟ house watching that right now
and I don‟t have any idea. I know she loves it but I don‟t know.

Doug: Just think how many people could have gotten out of debt this evening,

Well, Doyle, at the break I mentioned financial planners. I mentioned financial
advisors who sell products. What is your opinion about that? Are they biased in
their advice because they‟re selling a product?

Doyle: Well, obviously, anybody who has a product or service to sell is biased
and, uh, uh, basically, that‟s one of the problems with the debt industry whether
you‟re talking about bankruptcy attorneys or negotiation programs or consumer
credit counseling or, uh, debt management services. Whatever you‟re looking at,
really, for the most part you‟re just dealing with one option. So, when you go to a
bankruptcy attorney or a consolidation company to talk to them about your
situation their going to try to roll you into their solution. And, uh, so, yeah, I would
definitely say, you know, that‟s part of the problem in the industry is, you know,
you really need to go to someone, actually like yourself, Doug, that has the
solutions, you know, and has all the different arenas, you know, these different
solutions in their, in their pocket to be able to point people to depending on their
situation. It‟s not a cookie cutter approach. And that‟s what we do with our
clients, as well. It‟s really a matter of finding out where the person is, uh, in their
life and not just their debt situation but their personality. I mean there‟s some
people that, uh, want to become wealthy. And other people just, simply, want to
live out their lives and enjoy it the best way possible. There‟s all these different
circumstances, you know, whether their on a fixed income or a college student
just starting out or, you know, how old are they and how much time they have
before retirement . You know, it‟s important when you‟re looking at debt
solutions to work with somebody who has a non-biased, uh, advisor and can
point you in the right direction.

Doug: Yes. Ok. One of the statistics I continually hear is 4 percent of Americans
are making to retirement, er, with a….only 4 percent are making it to retirement
with any kind of savings. So, what is your opinion about this? Is, I guess you‟ve
covered a lot of the points that explain why but do you have anything to add to
that, this evening?

Doyle: You know, one thing I‟ ll add to that and, again, it goes back to our
education and what we‟re taught but, you know, in this society and what were,
you know, pounded into our heads on tv, you know, one thing that‟s really
harmful is when people think about, uh, when people don‟t think about what‟s
items cost them. Because, you know, they‟re always thinking about the low
monthly payment you‟re always hearing about on tv. Uh, for example, when you
go to buy a car, you know, the car salesman never talks to you about this one‟s
26 thousand or 34 thousand, uh, it‟s always how much can you afford in monthly
payments, you know, “what‟s your monthly payment, now, Mr. Bruechner?” They
get you caught up in that monthly payment mentality and, really, I‟m here to tell
you, folks, is that mentality is dangerous and that‟s just one example of the
mentality that‟s a reason we‟re in the situation we‟re in. Uh, and, you know, you
could go on and on but, you know, one other thing is just discipline. I mean, uh,
the truth is most people, just like losing weight, getting out of debt‟s the same
way. It‟s not that it‟s rocket science. Uh, you could lose weight just by taking
less calories in than you expend every day and you‟ll lose weight. That‟s a
scientific fact. But it‟s almost impossible to do because we don‟t have the
discipline to stick with a plan long term. And, again, I‟m not, it‟s not that we‟re
bad people but, I think, uh, it really just goes back to human nature. Without
accountability, it‟s hard to stick with something for the long term.

Doug: Doyle, I very much appreciate your being part of the show, here this
evening. I appreciate all the people who‟ve called in. There are a few people I
would like to recognize at this time who have made this show possible and the
service that we offer possible. It probably wouldn‟t have been available to you
without these people benefiting us. And the first one is Brian Schwarz with Apex
Computer Troubleshooter, Theresa Martin with Volunteer Benefits, Vinny Rebas
of CEO Space, uh, and Jesse Rucker who is a visionary humanitarian. Thank
you for joining us. The truth will set you free.

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