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Presas-Garcia Powered By Docstoc

1                        NO. 2002-01-153-E

         Plaintiff(s),    )
3                         )
     VS.                  ) OF
4                         )
     BROWNSVILLE          )
     DISTRICT, ET AL,     )
6        Defendant(s).    ) CAMERON   COUNTY,   TEXAS

7    ----------------------------------------------

                       CATALINA GARCIA
9                       JULY 22, 2002

10   ----------------------------------------------


12   produced as a witness at the instance of the

13   Defendant, and duly sworn, was taken in the

14   above-styled and numbered cause on the 22nd of July,

15   2002, from 2:17 p.m. To 5:48 p.m., before PATRICIA

16   PHELPS, CSR in and for the State of Texas, reported

17   by method of machine shorthand, in the Veracruz

18   Boardroom of the Four Points by Sheraton,

19   3777 N. Expressway, Brownsville, Texas, pursuant to

20   the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure and the provisions

21   stated on the record or attached hereto.




           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1                   A P P E A R A N C E S


         By: Mr. Michael Pruneda
         944 Nolana, Suite B
5        Pharr, Texas 78577


8        By: Mr. Richard Zayas
         ZAYAS & ZAMORA, P.C.
9        3100 E. 14th Street
         Brownsville, Texas 78521


13       By: Mr. Daniel Burns
         and Mr. Joe De Los Santos
15       6300 La Calma, Suite 200
         Austin, Texas 78752


         Rene Ortiz


         Ms. Norma Ortiz



           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1                     I     N      D     E     X

2                                                      PAGE

3    Appearances ..............................         2
     Stipulations .............................         4
5        Examination by Mr. Burns      .............     4
         Examination by Mr. Zayas      .............   118
6        Examination by Mr. Burns      .............   169


8    Signature and Changes ....................        175
     Reporter's Certificate ...................        176
10   NO.   DESCRIPTION                                 PAGE
     1     Videotape of Meeting .................        4
11   2     Audiocassette Recording ..............      N/A
     3     6-30-97 BISD Memorandum ..............        4
12   4     Handwritten Notes ....................        4



     NO. DESCRIPTION                                   PAGE







           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1            (Deposition Exhibit Numbers 1, 3, and 4

2            marked.)

3                    THE VIDEOGRAPHER:      We're on the

4    record.

5                    MR. BURNS:     Excuse me.

6                    Before we get started with the

7    testimony, I think we have an agreement of counsel I

8    wanted to get on the record.      We have marked a

9    videotape as Exhibit 1, some employment records as

10   Exhibit 3, and a note from the personnel office as

11   Exhibit 4.

12                   Exhibit 2, I believe we have your

13   original audiotape of a conversation between the

14   Witness and Doctor Noe Sauceda.        Our agreement is

15   that we are going to tender -- tender that original

16   to the Court Reporter.    She is going to attach a

17   dubbed copy of the tape to the deposition.       And she's

18   going to return the original to you.

19                   MR. PRUNEDA:    That's the agreement.

20                   MR. BURNS:     Okay.

21                         CATALINA GARCIA,

22   having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:

23                          EXAMINATION

24   BY MR. BURNS:

25      Q.     Okay.    Would you state your name for the
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    record, please.

2       A.      My name is Catalina Presas Garcia.

3       Q.      Okay.   You were here for Ms. Ortiz's

4    deposition, were you not?

5       A.      Exact- -- That's correct.

6       Q.      Okay.   I'm going to repeat some information

7    that I mentioned at the very end that -- that

8    probably more properly goes at the beginning, and

9    that is:   My name is Matt Burns.    I'm here

10   representing the Brownsville Independent School

11   District, Randy Dunn in all capacities, Eddie

12   Errisuriz in all capacities, Noe Sauceda in all

13   capacities, and Marilyn Del Bosque Gilbert in her

14   official capacity.

15                  We have not met before today; is that

16   correct?

17      A.      That is correct.

18      Q.      Okay.   Are you on any medication today that

19   would prevent you from participating in this

20   deposition or understanding my questions?

21      A.      No, sir.

22      Q.      Okay.   Do you have any -- any physical

23   condition that might interfere with your ability to

24   understand my questions?

25      A.      No, sir.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1          Q.    Okay.   Am I speaking loud enough for you to

2    hear?

3          A.    Yes, sir.

4          Q.    Okay.   I'll go over those rules that we

5    mentioned with Ms. Ortiz real quickly just to refresh

6    your memory.     If you would, continue to answer out

7    loud.      And if you have an answer that requires a

8    "yes" or "no" answer, if you would say "yes" or "no"

9    as opposed to a nod of the head or some other --

10   other sound we would appreciate it.

11                    If you will wait until I finish my

12   questions completely, even if you think you know

13   exactly what I'm going to ask you, I would appreciate

14   it.   It will keep our transcript clearer.    We don't

15   want to talk over each other.     And I will do my best

16   to return the same courtesy and let you finish your

17   answers completely before I start another question.

18   If I get in before you're finished with your answer,

19   you feel free to tell me that you're not finished and

20   we'll -- we'll wait until you have an opportunity to

21   respond.

22                    If I have an objection or if your

23   attorney has an objection to a question, please let

24   us state that objection.      And then, since there's no

25   judge here, we'll let you answer if you can, or
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    unless your attorney instructs you not to answer.

2                    If I ask a question that you don't

3    understand, please feel free to ask me to restate it

4    because most times it's not because you're not

5    understanding it -- or not able to understand it,

6    it's because I'm asking a bad question.    I get a

7    little tangled up sometimes.     Otherwise, we're going

8    to assume that you've understood my question.     Is

9    that acceptable?

10      A.     Correct.    Okay.

11      Q.     Okay.   Have you had your deposition taken

12   before?

13      A.     Yes, sir.   I have.

14      Q.     Have you -- have you been a plaintiff in any

15   prior lawsuits before?

16      A.     Yes, sir.

17      Q.     Could you just list for me briefly -- I

18   don't expect you to come up with cause numbers or

19   anything like that -- but, if you can, name me the --

20   the principal parties in the first lawsuit you were a

21   party to.

22      A.     The first lawsuit was -- it was Strawberry

23   Square Plaza.     It was an accident, a trip and fall.

24      Q.     And were you the plaintiff in that case?

25      A.     I was the plaintiff.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1        Q.   Okay.   Did you suffer some physical injury?

2        A.   I was five months pregnant at the time when

3    I suffered an injury and was hospitalized.    And --

4    and the case went to court and -- and my award was

5    given to me for the damages.

6        Q.   Okay.   What damages did you -- did you claim

7    there?

8        A.   I had a -- a disc -- a four and the five

9    were henerated (sic).     And then I was hospitalized

10   for two days at the time of the fall.    And basically

11   that -- that was it.    The -- Those were the damages.

12       Q.   Okay.   Was --

13       A.   But the child was fine.

14       Q.   Was the baby okay?

15       A.   He was born fine.

16       Q.   Well, we're glad to hear that.

17                Were there any other plaintiffs or

18   defendants in that case?

19       A.   No, sir.

20       Q.   Okay.   What was the award in that case that

21   you received, the -- the monetary damages that you

22   recovered?

23       A.   $295,000.00.

24       Q.   Who was your attorney on that case?

25       A.   Ron Armstrong.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.    Is Mr. Armstrong from here in Brownsville?

2       A.    He is from Brownsville.

3       Q.    Okay.   Did you pay Mr. Armstrong on a

4    contingency fee basis or hourly?

5       A.    Contingency.

6       Q.    Okay.   What was the -- what was the

7    contingency, if you recall?

8       A.    I don't recall, to be honest.

9        Q.   Okay.

10      A.    It's been awhile.

11      Q.    Does 33 percent sound familiar?

12      A.    Yeah.   It was that.

13      Q.    Okay.   After the Strawberry Square lawsuit,

14   were you in a subsequent lawsuit as a party, as a

15   plaintiff or a defendant?

16      A.    No.

17      Q.    You've not been in any other litigation?

18      A.    No, sir.

19      Q.    Okay.   Oh, was the Strawberry Square

20   lawsuit -- was that here in Cameron County?

21      A.    Yes, sir.

22      Q.    Was it in state court?

23      A.    Yes, sir.

24      Q.    Okay.   Do you recall if it was in a district

25   court or a county court?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.      County.

2       Q.      County court.

3                    Do you rehall -- Excuse me.

4                    Do you recall which county court?

5       A.      No, sir.

6       Q.      Okay.   I would like to change directions a

7    little bit and ask you some questions about your

8    employment history.

9                    Are you a high school graduate?

10      A.      Yes, sir.

11      Q.      Okay.   Are you a college graduate?

12      A.      No, sir.    Some college hours.

13      Q.      Some college.

14                   Did you enter the work force after you

15   graduated from high school?

16      A.      Yes, sir.

17      Q.      Okay.   Did you attend college at any time

18   full-time, or was it in addition to your working?

19      A.      It was part-time because I was working

20   full-time at the Brownsville Police Department.

21      Q.      Okay.   Well, I certainly can sympathize with

22   that.     We've -- we've been there.

23                   Let me know your -- your first

24   employer, first full-time job you had out of high

25   school.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.    Brownsville Police Department.

2       Q.    And to your understanding, is that a -- an

3    agency within the City of Brownsville?

4       A.    That is with the City of Brownsville.

5       Q.    Okay.   Your checks would be payable by the

6    City?

7       A.    By the City of Brownsville.

8       Q.    Okay.   What -- what was your first position

9    with the police department?

10      A.    I was a radio communication operator.

11      Q.    Okay.   You would take calls or -- or --

12      A.    911 emergency calls.

13      Q.    -- Dispatch calls?

14      A.    And dispatch the calls to the police

15   officers to go to the scene.

16      Q.    Okay.   When people dialed 911, they would --

17   they would get you or someone else on the phone with

18   the 911 service?

19      A.    When I first started, it was -- they -- they

20   had to dial the -- the -- the automatic -- the

21   regular phone line, because the 911 system was not

22   implemented yet.   So we took care of 16 phone lines.

23   And the people -- The community would have to call

24   through those 16 phone lines so they could get to a

25   police off- -- to -- for us to dispatch the police
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    officer.

2        Q.      Okay.   That -- that answers my question.     I

3    was -- was thinking that 911 and dispatch were

4    generally two different groups.      But you were the

5    same thing at that point.

6        A.      It was the same thing until it got

7    implemented as the 911.

8        Q.      Okay.   When did you start with Brownsville

9    P.D.

10          A.   It was May of 1984.

11          Q.   Okay.   How long were you there -- How long

12   did you work for the Brownsville Police Department?

13          A.   It was from May of 1984 through October of

14   '9 -- 1987.

15          Q.   '87.    I wrote down '83 for some reason.

16                      After -- What was your last position

17   with the Brownsville Police Department?

18          A.   I was radio communications supervisor when I

19   left.

20          Q.   And I'm just guessing, but is it fair to say

21   that you were supervising people that were in the

22   position, more or less, where you started?

23          A.   That is correct.

24          Q.   Okay.   Why did you leave the Brownsville

25   Police Department?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.     I married and moved to Joliet, Illinois.

2       Q.     I'm sorry.    Did you say Juliet?

3       A.     Joliet.

4       Q.     Joliet.

5       A.     Joliet.

6       Q.     Joliet.

7                  And did you work outside the home in

8    Joliet?

9       A.     I worked for the Will County Consortium.

10       Q.    Is that a -- an intergovel- --

11   intergovernmental organization?

12       A.    It was an intergovernmental organization.

13   It was -- I was a social worker for the Hispanic

14   Minority Community.     And the -- Basically, it was the

15   community that had minority children that were going

16   into drugs and -- and to -- We were trying to do

17   intervention and prevention.     That's what it was.   It

18   was an organization to help juveniles to stay away or

19   off the street, becoming gang members, or doing

20   drugs.

21       Q.    Okay.   And how long did you work in that

22   social worker position?

23       A.    From 1987 to 1989.

24       Q.    '87 to '89.

25                 And what happened after -- after that?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    Did you move on to a different position with the same

2    comp- -- or same organization or change employers?

3       A.     I divorced and moved back home.

4       Q.     And is your divorce the reason for

5    terminating your employment with the Cooke County --

6    or --

7       A.     Will County Consortium.

8       Q.     -- Will County Consortium?

9       A.     I -- I didn't have any family in Joliet, so

10   I -- I decided to move back home and come back and --

11   and -- and continue my college.     But at the same

12   time, when I arrived they had numerous openings at

13   the police department, so I went to apply.     And I --

14   They hired me again due to the --

15      Q.     Okay.   I'm -- I'm certainly not questioning

16   your --

17      A.     Uh-huh.

18      Q.     -- Your decision.

19                    My question was:   Was your divorce the

20   reason for leaving Will County Consortium?

21      A.     Yes.    It was.

22      Q.     Okay.   And you came back to Brownsville

23   and -- and picked up a new position with the

24   Brownsville Police Department?

25      A.     I started as a dispatcher again.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.    And that was sometime in '89?

2       A.    That was in 1989.

3       Q.    1989.

4                   What did you then do subsequently, if

5    anything, with the Brownsville Police Department?

6       A.    I was a radio communication operator again.

7    I started as a -- from the bottom.

8       Q.    Okay.   I probably didn't phrase that very

9    well.

10                  Did you move on to any other positions

11   with the police department?

12      A.    No.

13       Q.   Okay.   When did you leave the Brownsville

14   Police Department for the second time?

15      A.    I left in April of '92.

16      Q.    Okay.   And what was the -- what was the

17   reason for -- for leaving the police department at

18   that time?

19      A.    I had had my first child and I couldn't work

20   graveyard shifts or rotating shifts.

21      Q.    I'm sorry.   I may not have understood you.

22                  You say you -- you had your first child

23   and -- so you could no longer work rotating shifts?

24      A.    Work rotating shifts.

25      Q.    Okay.   Fair enough.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1                 Okay.     After you left in April of '92,

2    did you -- did you begin working anywhere else at

3    that time?

4       A.    I believe there was awhile there that --

5    that I was unemployed for awhile.    I don't remember

6    the amount of months.    But then after this period, I

7    started working in BISD in 1993.

8       Q.    Okay.   And what position did you hold with

9    BISD starting in 1993?

10      A.    I was an administrative secretary for the

11   facilities department.

12      Q.    And did you have any other positions at BISD

13   other than administrative secretary for facilities?

14      A.    I was -- I -- Later on, like about -- I

15   can't remember the exact time, but the year was

16   '98 -- I applied for a higher level secretary, which

17   was a level six.   And I was hired at one of the high

18   schools, Hanna High School.

19      Q.    I'm sorry.     I'm not familiar with the

20   schools in the area.    Did you say Hanna?

21      A.    High school with BISD.

22      Q.    Hanna High School.

23      A.    Uh-huh.

24      Q.    Thank you.

25                And how long were you the secretary at
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    Hanna High School?

2       A.     For four months.

3       Q.     And what position did you have after

4    secretary at Hanna High School?

5       A.     I was then reassigned to Oliveira Middle

6    School.

7        Q.      Do you know why you were reassigned from

8    Hanna to Oliveira?

9       A.     At that time, there was a -- an election for

10   the board.    And the high school principal that was

11   there at Hanna High School was reassigned.    Then, the

12   principal at Oliveira Middle School was transferred

13   to Hanna High School.    She was allowed to transfer

14   the staff that she wanted or to take the staff she

15   wanted to the new campus that she was going to be

16   reassigned.    Therefore, there was not enough money in

17   the budget to pay for two secretaries and I needed to

18   be bumped down to another level, which I went back to

19   a level five, which was -- I was -- where I was prior

20   to the level six.    And I was reassigned to Oliveira

21   Middle School by the decision -- decisions made by

22   upper management.

23      Q.     Okay.   So let me make sure I understand what

24   you said.    There was the principal at Hanna -- went

25   up to administrative offices --
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.    They --

2       Q.    -- Or -- or somewhere else.

3       A.    They reassigned her to another position.

4       Q.    Okay.

5       A.    She was reassigned.   The Hanna High School

6    principal --

7       Q.    Okay.

8       A.    -- Was reassigned.

9       Q.    The middle school principal then came to

10   Hanna and had her own staff that she preferred to

11   work with --

12      A.    Uh-huh.

13      Q.    -- And so you went to Oliveira?

14      A.    Yes.

15      Q.    Okay.

16      A.    Because they could not find budget for two

17   secretaries for that campus.

18      Q.    Okay.   Was there anything about that

19   reassignment that you considered to be wrongful or --

20   or discriminatory?

21      A.    I believe that it was -- it was more of a

22   political move when the things were done.   Numerous

23   amount of people knew it was coming before I left my

24   department, the original department that I started

25   with in '93.    I was warned that -- not to move
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    because the new board members were going to -- were

2    going to come in and there was going to be numerous

3    amounts of changes.    So they -- You know, I -- I

4    didn't take it seriously.    You know, mentally, I

5    thought why should anybody want to do that if -- if

6    any individual is -- is doing the proper work and

7    following proper procedures, why should anybody get

8    moved.   So I ignored the fact that I -- you know,

9    numerous amount of people that knew from other

10   sources that changes were going to be done and the

11   administrator that was hiring me at the campus at the

12   high school was going to be one of the ones that was

13   going to be reassigned.   I ignored the fact that --

14   that she -- you know, that -- I -- I didn't want to

15   believe that she was going to be reassigned.   And

16   sure enough, you know, the new parties came in that

17   were reelect- -- that were reelected or elected and

18   the changes were done.

19       Q.    Okay.   Anything about that reassignment that

20   you believe was aimed at you personally?

21       A.    I just got to believe that because I was not

22   someone who spoke out or would file a grievance

23   because I was not -- When I first started with the

24   district, mentally they tell you, well, you know,

25   you're an employee, you can't -- you've got to be
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    careful how you file grievances; you've got to be

2    careful how you think; you have to just sit back and

3    enjoy the ride.    So I was at that point.   I was just

4    observing, learning.   And I felt, you know, I'm not

5    going to be one to file a grievance, what for, just

6    take the hits.

7       Q.    Okay.    I have to object to that as

8    nonresponsive.

9                   And I -- I think this calls mainly for

10   a "yes" or "no" answer.

11      A.    Okay.

12      Q.    But is there anything about that

13   reassignment that you believe was directed

14   specifically at -- at you personally?

15      A.    No.

16      Q.    Okay.

17                  Okay.   You went to the middle school.

18   And about when was that transfer, if you can recall?

19      A.    August of '98.

20      Q.    August of '98.

21                  Okay.   And where did you go then after

22   the middle school?

23      A.    I resigned on October of '98.

24      Q.    And what was the -- what was the reason for

25   your resignation?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.      I was very unhappy, very uncomfortable with

2    the changes that they had done, being that my salary

3    had dropped, my days of work had dropped.     And nobody

4    would listen to whatever -- how I felt.

5                   I -- At that time, I also applied for

6    another position which was a level seven secretary,

7    which was going to be an opening in one of the

8    administ- -- area administrator's position who was

9    just going to get hired.      And out of the 12

10   applicants that applied, the ones that had the most

11   qualifications were not chosen.     There was one

12   that -- one of the applicants that was chosen that

13   had a lot less experience.     And -- and I felt that

14   the district was being very unfair and -- and very

15   unjustice (sic).

16      Q.      You filed a grievance in that situation, did

17   you not?

18      A.      Yes, sir.

19      Q.      Okay.    And that was under your -- your

20   maiden name?

21      A.      It was under my previous married name.

22      Q.      Oh, excuse me.

23                  And what -- what was that?

24      A.      It was Catalina Ortiz.

25      Q.      Ortiz.    Okay.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1                  And who was the administrator that

2    was -- that was looking for the secretarial position?

3       A.    It was Doctor Sauceda, Noe Sauceda.

4       Q.    And did he not choose a person that she --

5    that he had previously worked with for that position?

6       A.    No, sir.   The individual that was hired

7    was -- had less experience than all the ones that had

8    applied and was not a level five secretary.      It --

9    She was not in the level where the other employees

10   that were within the district were trying to apply to

11   better themselves to an upper level.

12      Q.    Okay.   Now I may be getting a little far

13   afield here, so let me just clarify.

14                Nothing in the present lawsuit

15   addresses any bad feelings or claims you may have had

16   regarding that level seven position; is that correct?

17      A.    Oh no, sir.   No, sir.

18      Q.    Okay.

19                Okay.     That's water under the bridge?

20      A.    Oh, yes.   Yes.

21      Q.    Okay.   Great.    Great.   Because it cuts down

22   on our time together -- not that you're not a

23   charming person, but --

24                Let's -- let's turn to your specific

25   allegations in the -- in the present suit.     One of
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    the things you're alleging is that you have not been

2    allowed to speak at Brownsville ISD board meetings;

3    is that correct?

4       A.    That is correct, sir.

5       Q.    Okay.      You've signed up to speak at board

6    meetings?

7       A.    Yes, sir.

8       Q.    Okay.      Are -- are you -- Will you agree with

9    me that if you're going to address the board it is

10   necessary to sign a sign-in sheet?

11      A.       Yes, sir.

12      Q.       Okay.   Were you ever prevented from signing

13   that sheet?

14      A.       There was an incident that the agenda

15   sign-in sheet was pulled out ten minutes prior than

16   the actual time.     Our time frame is between 5:00 and

17   5:30.   And several of us -- We must have been three

18   individuals that wanted to speak were not allowed

19   because the list was taken off before the time.      And

20   we had all arrived with enough time that would allow

21   us to sign in so we could speak.

22      Q.       Okay.   Do you have any reason to believe

23   that that was -- that the agenda was pulled to

24   prevent you or -- or any of the people that showed up

25   expecting to sign the sheet, to keep you from
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    speaking?    Or was this simply administrative

2    oversight?    Again, ma'am, I'm asking -- just asking

3    for your opinion.

4       A.     You know, to me, it's -- had never happened

5    before.   It just so happened that it was going to be

6    a meeting -- a meeting where there (sic) was going to

7    have numerous issues that we had many concerns.

8       Q.     Okay.     Did anyone ever try to tell you what

9    you could or could not -- Let me back up for a minute

10   and say we all know that you're not, in the public

11   forum section, allowed to address like student

12   discipline issues or specific employee issues because

13   of the privacy rights of the individuals involved.

14   Now other than those specific restrictions, did

15   anyone ever tell you about the subject matter that

16   you could or could not address in front of the board?

17      A.       No, sir.

18      Q.       Okay.   Are you complaining of any situation

19   other than perhaps the place where the agenda was

20   pulled where you wanted to speak and didn't sign up?

21      A.       Can you repeat the question again, please?

22      Q.       Was there ever a situation where you wanted

23   to speak to the board and didn't sign up and are now

24   complaining that you were not allowed to speak?

25      A.       No, sir.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.    Okay.   And will you agree with me that the

2    school district is -- is permitted to impose time

3    limits on the time that people are allowed to address

4    the board?

5       A.    I am familiar with the policy by the local

6    and state.

7       Q.    Okay.   Is there anything about that policy

8    that you believe is -- is improper under the law?

9       A.    No, sir.

10      Q.    Okay.   Can you tell me as closely as you

11   could recall -- and if you don't have a date, some

12   other occasion, or time of the year, month,

13   whatever -- can you state for me any meeting where

14   you were not permitted to speak under the same terms

15   as the other speakers at the meeting?

16      A.    We had a board meeting which was -- if I'm

17   not mistaken, it must have been in the September

18   board meeting of 2001.

19      Q.    Okay.   What occurred at that meeting, what

20   you think may have been September 2001?

21                I'm sorry.

22                Let me back up one step and ask you:

23   Was this a meeting where you had signed up to address

24   the board?

25      A.    Yes, sir.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.      Okay.   The September -- we know that's just

2    your best recollection.    At that meeting, what was it

3    that you were wanting to speak -- what subject did

4    you want to speak on?

5       A.      My subject that evening was in regards to a

6    position that was created without having to go for

7    board approval, without having to post the position

8    or giving the opportunity to other people to apply

9    for that position, the outrageous salary that was

10   given to that position, the qualifications that were

11   not, you know, followed.       They request certain

12   qualifications, but yet the individual that was hired

13   did not have those qualifications.

14                  Never stated a name.     Never degraded

15   anybody.    It was just a concern that I had as a

16   taxpayer.    And numerous people had called me and

17   approached me to, please, come before the board and

18   question the matter.    As per -- I can give you an

19   example.    My concern is that we have teachers with a

20   degree --

21      Q.      If -- if we could, let's -- for right now,

22   let's stick with this specific meeting.

23      A.      With the meeting.

24      Q.      You're concerned about a position that

25   was -- that you disagreed with the way the position
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    was filled.

2       A.    Uh-huh.

3       Q.    Okay.   What happened at the meeting that

4    you're complaining of?

5       A.    I got as far as an employee was hired on

6    such day with the amount of, you know, with a salary

7    being -- and I was shut up.

8       Q.    Okay.

9       A.    I was told I could no longer go on, just to

10   have my seat.

11       Q.   Okay.   Is -- Did they give you a reason for

12   that?

13       A.   To me and to the public that were there,

14   there was no reason for me to be asked to s- -- quiet

15   and take a seat.

16       Q.   Okay.   Do you -- do you recall anyone saying

17   that they did not -- were not allowed to discuss

18   individual personnel in a -- in a public forum?

19       A.   Do I recall from the board or anybody?

20       Q.   Do you recall anyone telling you that, yes,

21   ma'am.

22       A.   I recall just clearly seeing a board member

23   and the superintendent giving the sign to the

24   attorney to ask me to sit down.

25                   I was, as a matter of fact, prewarned
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    the day of the meeting not to go because I was not

2    going to be allowed to speak and to save the

3    embarrassment and the humiliation that I was going to

4    go through.

5        Q.     Okay.   Were you prewarned not to show up

6    because no one would listen to you or because you

7    were going to be discussing issues that were specific

8    to a given employee?

9       A.      I was prewarned because under the Roberts

10   rule, I was at all my rights to discuss the issue as

11   long as I didn't mention anyone's name.    There was

12   nothing wrong with my questioning as a taxpayer.

13   And, therefore, the individual that called me, I

14   guess in -- in his mind or -- or opinion he wanted to

15   save me an embarrassment before the public because

16   this is a vide- -- you know, this -- this comes out

17   on TV.

18       Q.     Uh-huh.

19       A.     So I was just told, don't show up to the

20   meeting.

21       Q.     Okay.   I would object to that as

22   nonresponsive.

23                  I've objected, but I think I forgot

24   what my question was.     I -- My apologies.

25       A.     The reason that --
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.    You were -- you were asked -- You were told

2    not to address the board.    And my question was

3    whether it was because no one wanted to l- -- or your

4    perception was that no one wanted to hear this or

5    because it was involving an employee.

6       A.    They didn't want the public, the community,

7    to find out what was going on.

8       Q.    Okay.    Who called you to ask you to show up

9    at the meeting?

10       A.   Mr. Powers had called me to see if I was

11   going to go to the meeting or attend to the meeting,

12   because if I was, that -- not to -- to be careful,

13   because I was going to be embarrassed.

14      Q.    Do you -- do you have any opinion as to what

15   he meant by that statement, you'll be embarrassed?

16      A.    I was going to try to question something

17   that I had been asked, to question the board as to

18   why these things were happening in our district.      I

19   got numerous phone calls the night before the board

20   to, please, go before the board and question.

21      Q.    Okay.    Who else other than Mr. Powers called

22   you, contacted you regarding this issue?

23      A.    I spoke to Mr. Layman that afternoon before

24   he walked into the board.    And he assured me that

25   that was correct.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1        Q.   Mr. Layman is a trustee?

2        A.   Pat Layman.    Pat.   Yeah.   He's a trustee.

3        Q.   Okay.   Who else did you talk to about this

4    issue?

5        A.   Mr. Colunga.    I had spoken to him a week

6    before the meeting, and he had told me that there

7    were going to be times that the unanimous board side

8    was not going to allow me to question things to the

9    board anymore.

10       Q.   And anyone else other than Mr. Powers,

11   Mr. Lang- -- Mr. Layman -- excuse me -- or

12   Mr. Colunga that you spoke to about this issue?

13       A.   Mr. Gonzalez had prewarned me not to go to

14   the board meetings because they weren't going to

15   allow me to speak anymore.

16       Q.   And was Mr. Gonzalez the superintendent

17   that -- Am I thinking of the right person?

18       A.   He was an area administrator at the time.

19       Q.   Area administrator.    Okay.   I'm sorry.

20                Mr. Gonzalez told you that you would

21   not be allowed to speak at the board meeting any

22   more?

23       A.   (Nods head affirmatively.)

24       Q.   Subsequent to this -- and again we're

25   talking approximately September 2001 meeting -- have
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    you been prevented from speaking at -- at any other

2    board meetings?

3       A.    The last board meeting I went to, that I

4    attended -- as a matter of fact, I -- it was a -- an

5    issue, a very minor issue.   It was back in February

6    2002.

7       Q.    Tell me about that meeting.   What were you

8    wanting to address at that meeting?

9       A.    It was a pat on the back for all board

10   members, as a matter of fact, something that was --

11   that they had done.   And it was -- Let me go back a

12   little bit, if you'll allow me.

13      Q.    Sure.

14      A.    There was two meetings, but I can't -- can't

15   recall if it was the one where we had spent money on

16   some changes that were not approved by the board for

17   a campus that had been stalling on the construction

18   because the company had filed bankrupt in 2001.     So

19   my question to the board -- again I was concerned

20   about funding, budgeting -- was that there was a

21   change order in the construction of the campus.     It

22   was -- It did not go for board approval.   It was an

23   outrageous amount that it costs for us taxpayers to

24   be able to do the modification of that room.   So I

25   spoke before the board, and -- and I -- I felt
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    concern that why was it that other campuses did not

2    have the same size of nurses' station versus the one

3    that was being built.      And I had gone to compare some

4    nurses' station (sic) myself at numerous campuses, so

5    I questioned what's the difference between this

6    campus where these children sit versus this brand new

7    campus that's on the north side of town.     Why do we

8    spend so much?   And why wasn't it board approved?

9       Q.    Uh-huh.

10       A.   The board needed to approve these issues

11   before anything.   And that was my concern.

12       Q.   Okay.   Did you -- Were you able to ask that

13   question to the board?

14       A.   Yes.    That --

15       Q.   Okay.

16       A.   At that time, I was.

17       Q.   Okay.   So you were allowed to speak at that

18   board meeting?

19       A.   Yes, sir.

20       Q.   Okay.   Is there anything about that

21   situation that you're complaining of today?

22       A.   About the board meeting itself that I

23   spoke?

24       Q.   Yes.

25       A.   Or --
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.     Yes, ma'am.

2                     I'm trying to figure out when you were

3    treated differently perhaps than other members of the

4    public.   And we -- we discussed two meetings, one

5    where -- Correct me if I'm wrong, did the board's

6    attorney indicate that you should not address this

7    issue involving the employee that was hired without

8    what you considered to be proper credentials or

9    notice?

10      A.     There was three incidents where I was

11   practically told that I was out of order and I

12   couldn't proceed with my questioning.

13      Q.     Okay.   Let me make sure I understand the

14   first two, if I could.

15      A.     Uh-huh.

16      Q.     The first one is the meeting you've told us

17   about with the concern being the employment of this

18   person?

19      A.     Uh-huh.

20       Q.    The second one is February 2002 when you're

21   asking -- or maybe this is before -- when you're

22   asking questions about, I assume, the Paredes Middle

23   School -- or Elementary School?

24       A.    Yes.    It was that.

25      Q.     Okay.   And what were you told after you
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    completed your presentation to the board?

2       A.     Normally, the board is not allowed to

3    discuss anything.    You either follow up through

4    public information and they give you the information

5    that you're requesting.   When I approach the board,

6    normally it's an approach because people come to me

7    and say, please, please, go and speak on our behalf,

8    we feel retaliation will be made.   At that time, I

9    didn't need answers.   It was just a concern that I

10   had as to why things were not being taken to the

11   board for their approval and -- and for their

12   knowledge practically.

13       Q.    Okay.   And forgive me if I'm being dense

14   here, but what is the problem with this meeting?

15   What -- what happened at this meeting that you

16   believe was not proper?

17       A.    At this meeting, there wasn't anything

18   proper.   The difference is that I got to speak.    I

19   got to voice out my concern.    Nobody -- I don't

20   recall if at that time there was an incident where

21   they tried to say that I was, you know, -- that I

22   should have just backed off a little.

23       Q.    Okay.   Forgive me if I misunderstood then.

24   This is just an example of a meeting where you did

25   speak.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.    Exactly.

2       Q.    Okay.   I'm looking for examples where -- all

3    the specific examples you can recall where you were

4    not permitted to participate in the meeting on

5    grounds that you think were not the same as other

6    members of the public.

7       A.    Okay.   On October -- in -- I'm just going to

8    give you briefly.   It was between October, November.

9       Q.    Of which year?

10      A.    Of 2001.

11      Q.    Okay.

12      A.    It was October, November of 2001, where I

13   came back to the board and I questioned them numerous

14   salary increases without being in our 2001 August

15   budget, however, certain individuals got a pay

16   increase without being budgeted, which, to me, would

17   be a concern as a taxpayer because it would

18   automatically throw -- throw us off on our balances.

19      Q.    Okay.   Let me interrupt, if I could, for

20   just a second.

21      A.    Uh-huh.

22      Q.    You are -- You have signed up, and you are

23   being permitted to address the board on these issues?

24      A.    That is correct.

25      Q.    Okay.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.    As I approached the board and I question on

2    certain issues and certain individuals that were

3    being hired and -- and raises, salary increases

4    without going to board approval again, I was told

5    that I was out of order.    But I didn't see -- Under

6    the Roberts rule, I was not out of order.   I was not

7    degrading anybody.    I was not mentioning any names,

8    so I had the right to question what -- what I was

9    questioning.   So then they told the board president,

10   Mr. Colunga, that I was out of order -- one of the

11   board members.   And the superintendent leaned on and

12   told him, "She's out of order."

13                  I did apologize to the -- to the board

14   president.   And I told him with all due respect, it

15   is you that is requesting me to -- for me to sit down

16   and since you are the board president, I will take a

17   seat, however, I am not out of order.   So at that

18   time, the board president suggested, "We'll go behind

19   executive session."

20                  At the time of executive session, when

21   the time -- the meeting came around for the executive

22   session, which was two week -- a week and a half

23   later, I called the main office -- because I used to

24   work with agendas, too -- and I made sure that I

25   communicated with Mr. Pineda.   And I assured him that
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    I wanted to be on that executive session because I

2    was going to discuss a conversation that I had had

3    with the superintendent and the other issues, hiring

4    practice, salary increases, and so forth.    I was

5    supposed to be on executive session.   My surprise was

6    that when I arrived to the board meeting, I was not

7    in the executive session.

8       Q.      Do you -- And I realize you're not an

9    attorney, so don't think I'm asking you to practice

10   law.    Do you recall what exception to the open

11   meetings act would have allowed you to address the

12   board in executive session?

13       A.     I know that there's -- I think it's -- not

14   the local, but at the -- it's the state, I think.

15   It's the state, where it states that we do have the

16   right to request to go behind executive session as

17   long as it's placed on the agenda.

18       Q.     I -- I -- To discuss what subject matter?

19       A.     To discuss any subject matter, anything as

20   long as it's pertaining to issues that are -- that

21   fall under employee -- employment, just like the

22   tape, just numerous issues that you have and that you

23   feel that you want to talk to the board personally.

24   But there is -- I know that there's a policy that

25   allows us to do that.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.    Okay.    And which of those exceptions did

2    you -- were you of the opinion that you fell under?

3    What did you feel you were discussing that could

4    legitimately be discussed in an executive session of

5    the board?

6       A.    The tape.    And some other issues, names of

7    individuals that were being hired without the proper

8    qualifications, outrageous salaries.    Those were the

9    issues that I was going to discuss behind executive

10   sessions.

11      Q.    Okay.    So your complaint then if -- as I

12   understand it is that you were not allowed to go into

13   an executive session to address these issues?

14      A.    Exactly.    That is correct.

15      Q.    Okay.

16       A.      And I was told -- That day of the meeting,

17   it was recorded.    It was live, where the board

18   president addressed to -- the superintendent, which

19   was Doctor Sauceda -- to make sure that I would be in

20   executive session the following board meeting.     And

21   the time came that -- when the meeting -- when I

22   showed up, they q- -- two of the board members

23   questioned it, and the response was, no, she's

24   already done her talking in front of the public --

25      Q.    Okay.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.     -- The prior meeting.

2       Q.     Who were the board members that -- that

3    raised this issue?

4       A.     It was president Joe Colunga and Otis

5    Powers.

6       Q.     Was there any discussion that you -- that

7    you were privy to from the other trustees regarding

8    the ability to discuss this in executive session?

9       A.     What?   Excuse me?

10      Q.     Any other reason -- any -- What were the

11   reasons, if you know them, or as you understood them,

12   that the remaining trustees did not wish to discuss

13   this matter in closed session with you?

14      A.     I was never given a reason.   I was never

15   told anything.

16      Q.     Okay.   And if I understand your pleadings

17   correctly, are you saying that this is a result of

18   political retaliation?

19      A.     Yes, sir.

20      Q.     Okay.   How -- Explain to me, if -- if you

21   can, how this is a -- a political retaliation issue.

22      A.     I -- If I can explain or if you'll allow me

23   to explain to you, on May the 8th I visited with

24   Doctor Sauceda, the superintendent.     And we discussed

25   just certain issues.   I congratulated him.   I -- I --
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    I told him that I was -- you know, I felt that as a

2    taxpayer we were going to give him the opportunity to

3    do his job and -- and -- and give us the best

4    performance as a superintendent, being that our

5    district was so big and that we needed someone that

6    could direct this district towards the right

7    direction.

8       Q.       Okay.    If I could interrupt for just one

9    second.     Is -- Are you talking about the tape that

10   we're going to be marking as Exhibit 2, this --

11       A.      Yes, sir.

12       Q.      -- This purple microcassette?

13       A.      Yes, sir.

14       Q.      Okay.    Is that your original copy, by the

15   way?

16       A.      Yes, sir.

17          Q.   Okay.    Okay.   I'm sorry to interrupt.

18                   You -- you --

19       A.      That's okay.

20       Q.      -- Mentioned you were talking with Doctor

21   Sauceda on -- Was it May the 8th?

22       A.      It was on May the 8th.

23       Q.      Okay.

24       A.      And --

25                   MR. ZAYAS:      2001?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1                    THE WITNESS:   2001, sir.

2                    At that time, I just -- I -- I spoke to

3    him about certain issues that I had already been

4    talking to Texas Education Agency top administrators

5    out there -- the director of finance, which is Doctor

6    Ed Flathouse; Mr. Ron Wile, who is the director of

7    the governance department; and just -- an

8    investigator by the last name of Mr. Reyna or

9    Perez -- I can't remember, but I have his business

10   card.   So I just -- I notified him that I was going

11   to continue attending the meetings, that, you know,

12   I -- I -- I had ran for school board for all the

13   right reasons, that for him not to think that -- that

14   I wasn't concerned about the district, that I was

15   going to remain on top of the district spending and

16   other issues.    I -- I wished him the best of luck.   I

17   also -- I told him that -- that -- that if I applied

18   for any position within the district that -- what

19   were the chances, what were the -- what were going to

20   be my chances of coming back to the district.     At the

21   end of the conversation, he stated that that's the

22   price I pay for being in the political arena.

23      Q.    (BY MR. BURNS)   Okay.    Are you alleging

24   today that those statements are on that tape?

25      A.    I do not recall if the -- if the tape
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    finished on me or if it was recorded.     But that is --

2    that -- What I'm saying was also told to another

3    individual.

4       Q.    By whom?

5       A.    By whom?    By Doctor Sauceda.

6       Q.    Okay.    And who was that individual?

7       A.    Mr. Gonzalez.

8       Q.    And -- and let me make sure I understand

9    your allegation here.    Mr. -- Doctor Sauceda told

10   Mr. Gonzalez that -- What was the statement, as you

11   understand it, to Mr. Gonzalez by Doctor Sauceda?

12      A.    I wouldn't -- I wouldn't have a chance to

13   come back to the district, one, because I was his

14   number one worst enemy.    He then approached me -- I

15   mean, Doctor Sauceda at the end of the conversation

16   told me that that's the price I pay for being in the

17   political arena --

18      Q.    Uh-huh.

19      A.       -- And that if he was to sign for me to get

20   hired back in the district, how would Ms. Marilyn Del

21   Bosque feel about me coming back to the district and

22   how would Randy Dunn feel about me coming back to the

23   district.    My response to him was, "I'm sorry, sir.

24   But with all due respect, board members have no

25   say-so on classified professional at-will employees.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    They only have a say-so when it comes -- hiring

2    individuals with a degree, teachers and

3    administrators.   That's the only time they have a

4    say-so as to agree, yes, we can bring them back or,

5    no, we cannot bring them back."

6       Q.      Do you remember a part of your conversation

7    that is on the tape where Doctor Sauceda told you

8    that politics didn't matter to him?

9       A.      Well, that's what he said, but that is not

10   what it ended up being.   Apparently, he took it

11   personal.    To me, it seemed as he took it personal

12   because he knew that any issues that I would request

13   from the district and I wouldn't get, I would call

14   TA or I would go myself up to TA and meet with the

15   administrators up at Austin.    So I felt that he

16   apparently took it personal and -- and then started

17   avoiding from me going to the meetings or -- I mean,

18   after 16 applications that I applied with the

19   district, to me it made no sense that I couldn't have

20   even qualified for the least as a clerk.   To me, I

21   have enough experience and knowledge to work anywhere

22   within the district.   I have the knowledge of

23   funding, state, local, I mean just -- not just the

24   funding itself, but about requisitions, about

25   agendas.    I worked long enough to where my experience
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    should have mattered, not my political career.

2       Q.     Okay.     I'm going to object to that as -- as

3    nonresponsive.

4                    And I'm going to change the -- try

5    to -- try to regroup and ask you again.     You've told

6    us a lot about a conversation with Doctor Sauceda

7    with a tape.    What is your basis for saying that you

8    were not allowed employment with the school district

9    because of your political affiliations?

10      A.     I was told by several individuals that

11   worked within the district he didn't want me in the

12   district.

13       Q.      Okay.   This is -- includes Mr. Gonzalez?

14      A.     Mr. Gonzalez is one that knows.

15      Q.     Okay.     Who else?

16      A.     Kenneth Lieck.

17      Q.     Could you spell that last name for me?

18      A.     L-I-E-C-K.

19      Q.     I would not have ever guessed that one

20   myself.

21                   Who -- What does Mr. Lieck do within

22   the district, to your knowledge?

23      A.     He is now the purchasing administrator.

24      Q.     Okay.     Anybody else other than Mr. Gonzalez

25   and Mr. Lieck?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1       A.    Board -- The three board members, which is

2    Mr. Powers, Mr. Colunga, and Mr. Layman, would tell

3    me just not -- just to give up from applying with the

4    school district, not to continue, because he -- they

5    knew that he didn't like me.

6       Q.    Okay.   That's the basis is because Doctor

7    Sauceda did not like you?

8       A.    Or didn't want me within the district.

9       Q.    Okay.   Why do you believe -- Will -- will

10   you agree with me that in an at-will employment

11   situation that Doctor Sauceda could make the decision

12   that he does not like you as a person?

13      A.    That -- That's fine.    But that is not the

14   case here.    When --

15      Q.    Okay.   Tell me why this is a situation where

16   you believe Doctor Sauceda did not like you for

17   political reasons.

18      A.    He had already threatened numerous amounts

19   of people having to socialize with me, having to sit

20   with me in the board meetings.   And I don't mean just

21   employees within the district.

22      Q.    Okay.   Let -- Let's back up.

23                  Who were the people that were

24   threatened?

25      A.    Hector Gonzalez.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.    Okay.    Who else?

2       A.    Norma Ortiz.

3       Q.    Okay.    Who else?

4       A.    Oscar Tapia.

5       Q.    T-A-P-I-A?

6       A.    T-A-P-I-A.

7       Q.    Who is Mr. Tapia?

8       A.    He's the facilities administrator.

9       Q.    And your allegation is that -- that

10   Mr. Tapia was told not to associate with you?

11      A.    They felt the threat.   They knew.   They

12   weren't -- They didn't have to be told.    People felt

13   the threat.

14      Q.    So you're speculating that this is a

15   perception by these other people?

16      A.    When you go to a meeting and no one wants to

17   sit down with you, what would you think?

18      Q.    I --

19      A.    I mean, that's -- It -- It's very difficult,

20   but --

21      Q.    Never mind what I would think.

22      A.    But --

23      Q.    Go ahead.

24      A.    I -- I would say that in board meetings they

25   would -- they wouldn't get near me because they would
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    actually tell me, "Caty, I can't talk to you."    Those

2    were their words.   "Caty, I can't sit next to you."

3                  Even the lady from maintenance

4    department, which is the custodian -- I don't know

5    her name, but she once came up to me and hugged me

6    and said, "I'm sorry, but I cannot be seen with

7    you."   And this is an individual that barely makes

8    ends meet, you know.   She -- she works as a

9    custodian.   But she's an individual.   She's a human.

10   But yet she feels threatened -- the only job that she

11   has -- that if she comes and talks to me she's going

12   to lose her job, so --

13      Q.    Did she tell you she had been threatened

14   with losing her job?

15      A.    She -- she felt threatened because she was

16   demoted from the third floor where she used to work

17   with Ms. Ortiz -- Norma Ortiz, with Mr. Gonzalez, and

18   with Lucy, who was another one of the secretaries,

19   and she was moved to the bottom, to the first floor.

20      Q.    Objection, nonresponsive.

21                 Did she tell you that she had been

22   threatened with demotion or termination if she

23   associated with you?

24      A.    She felt threatened.   She explained this to

25   another individual that called me up and told me.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1       Q.    Same objection.

2                  Did she tell you that she had been

3    threatened?

4       A.    I cannot answer that.

5       Q.    Okay.   Any other persons that you think were

6    told specifically not to associate with you?

7       A.    Let me see.

8                  Abel, the runner.

9       Q.    You believe Abel was told specifically not

10   to associate with you?

11      A.    He used to associate with me because he used

12   to been an employee with me.     And all of a sudden, he

13   stopped associating with me.

14      Q.    Okay.

15      A.    I have a reason to believe he was told.

16      Q.    Do you have any documentary evidence to

17   verify that he was told, any memos or recordings?

18      A.    No, sir.

19      Q.    Okay.   Has anyone told you that he was told

20   not to associate with you?

21      A.    I cannot recall that.

22      Q.    Has Abel ever told you he was told not to

23   associate with you?

24      A.    It's been awhile that I haven't spoken to

25   the gentleman.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1       Q.    Has he ever told you that, though?

2       A.    Not that I recall.

3       Q.       Okay.

4                    Okay.    Anyone else other than

5    Mr. Gonzalez, Ortiz, Tapia, and -- What is Abel's

6    last name, if you recall?

7       A.    Gonz- -- I think -- I can't remember his

8    last name.

9       Q.    Okay.      Anyone else other than those four

10   individuals that you believe has been told not to

11   associate with you?

12      A.    Mr. Cavazos.      Johnny Cavazos.

13      Q.    Okay.      And is he -- Was he employed with the

14   school district?

15      A.    No, sir.       He is a -- I believe a third-party

16   insurance owner.

17      Q.    Okay.

18      A.    He's got an insurance company.

19      Q.    Was he, for example, threatened with losing

20   contracts with the school district if he associated

21   with you?

22      A.    That is correct, sir, on September the 16th,

23   2001.

24      Q.    This is your understanding of Mr. Cavazos'

25   discussion with whom?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
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1       A.       With me.

2       Q.       Oh, he told you that he had been threatened

3    with --

4       A.       He personally told me.   He personally told

5    other individuals where Mr. Eddie Errisuriz, where

6    Mr. Randy Dunn personally approached him, drove all

7    the way to his office and threatened him not to

8    socialize with Mrs. Garcia.

9       Q.       He was told by them not to associate with

10   you?

11       A.      If he wanted to continue doing business with

12   the district, --

13       Q.      Okay.

14       A.      -- Then him and his secretary needed to stop

15   socializing with me and not to sit in the board

16   meetings next to me.

17       Q.      Do either of the gentlemen that talked to

18   Mr. Cavazos have the authority to execute contracts

19   on behalf of the school district?

20       A.      No, sir.

21          Q.   So that's an idle threat?

22       A.      When someone comes to your building and

23   comes and points the finger at you and raises their

24   voice and threatens you literally you're going to

25   lose the contract with the district if you do not
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   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    stop socializing with Garcia, I think that's a

2    threat.

3       Q.     How would they bring that threat into

4    action?

5       A.     Intimidation.

6       Q.     Intimidate who?

7       A.     Intimidate Mr. Cavazos.

8       Q.     Mr. Cavazos doesn't make the decision

9    whether to award the contracts.     How could they make

10   it so that Mr. Cavazos could not get the contract?

11      A.     They could have -- The only way I could see

12   that Mr. Cavazos wouldn't have had the contract is if

13   they didn't -- if they didn't follow policy

14   procedures for the bidding process, which is what we

15   were seeing a lot and often in our district as of the

16   year 2001 and 2002.

17      Q.     Okay.   So again this is an idle threat.   It

18   can't be carried into action by these --

19      A.     And the Brownsville Police Department --

20      Q.     -- Two gentlemen.

21      A.     That's why he filed a police report, if I'm

22   not mistaken.     That was a threat to a police officer

23   and their mentality or in the state -- under the

24   State of Texas law.    I don't know.

25      Q.     I'm sorry.   You -- you -- I missed something
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    there.    What -- what police officer was threatened?

2        A.     I -- No.     Mr. Cavazos felt threatened that

3    because they went and threatened him if he continued

4    socializing or talking to me or is sitting next to me

5    in the board meetings, he wouldn't have a job with

6    the district, rather that his insurance company would

7    not be provided to the district.      So he felt

8    threatened that by having friends like me he wouldn't

9    be making money or he wouldn't have a job.      I

10   believe, to me -- or anybody -- that would be a

11   threat.

12       Q.     Well, let me rephrase the question I've

13   asked several times.

14                  I want to know how you believe

15   Mr. Errisuriz or Mr. Dunn could actually influence

16   the award of these contracts.

17       A.     They had a lot of power.    It was a power

18   deal.

19       Q.     Can you explain that power deal to me?

20       A.     Authority.    The top administrator --

21       Q.     Will you agree with me that the --

22       A.     -- With the highest administration.

23       Q.     Will you agree with me that the director of

24   personnel doesn't execute insurance contracts?

25       A.     But the way the business was running in our
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    district, no one really knew.   It was always a

2    surprise when bids were awarded or contracts were

3    given to certain individuals.   I just know that, to

4    me, Mr. Cavazos was threatened because he was

5    socializing with me.

6       Q.    So is it fair to say that any impact these

7    two gentlemen might have on the contracting process

8    is merely speculation on your part?

9       A.    I can't answer that question.

10      Q.    Okay.   We've been through Mr. Gonzalez,

11   Ms. Ortiz, Mr. Tapia, Abel, the runner, Mr. Cavazos.

12   Anyone else you can think of that was told not to

13   associate with you?

14      A.    Mr. Cavazos and his secretary.

15      Q.    Okay.   What is his secretary's name, please?

16      A.    I believe her name is Sandra.    I don't know

17   her last name.

18      Q.    Okay.   And did I understand you to say that

19   the exchange that you're relating between Eddie and

20   Randy Dunn also involved the secretary?

21      A.    She -- she was also told -- He was told that

22   him and his secretary could not sit with me in the

23   board meetings or be seen with me socializing.

24      Q.    Was this -- Was Sandra told person to person

25   not to do this, or was this related, as you
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    understand it, by Mr. Cavazos?

2       A.    Sandra was told that I was crazy, that --

3    not to socialize with me, I was a crazy individual.

4       Q.    Okay.   Do you know who -- who told her that?

5       A.    Randy Dunn.

6       Q.    Randy Dunn.

7                 That sounds like an opinion, if you

8    will, rather than a threat.

9       A.    An opinion?   Well, I don't know.

10      Q.    Did -- did Mr. Dunn indicate that Sandra

11   would -- Sandra would suffer some retaliation if he

12   continued to associate with you, or was he merely in

13   your understanding expressing his opinion that you

14   were a crazy person?

15      A.    I wouldn't be able to answer you that

16   question.

17      Q.    Okay.   Anyone else other than the -- than

18   the six people we've discussed that have been told or

19   you believe were told not to associate with you?

20      A.    At this time, I cannot recall.

21      Q.    Okay.   Have we discussed all of the meetings

22   at which you believe you were not allowed to speak on

23   the same terms as other individuals?

24      A.    If I'm not mistaken, there's one that we're

25   missing because there was three of them that I wasn't
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    allowed to speak freely.

2       Q.      Okay.   If I understand you correctly then,

3    you were asked not to speak further in October or

4    November of 2001, February of 2002 -- Or was that an

5    example of a meeting you were allowed to speak?

6       A.      That was an example that I was allow --

7    aft- -- that I was allowed to speak afterwards.

8       Q.      Okay.   The other one was in approximately,

9    the best of your recollection, September of 2001.

10   And this was the position that you were in

11   disagreement with the district on.

12      A.      Questioning.

13      Q.      Okay.   What is the -- the third meeting?

14      A.      I can't recall at this time.

15                  MR. BURNS:    What time is it?

16                  MR. ZAYAS:    3:10

17                  MR. BURNS:    3:10.   Why don't we take a

18   short break and -- and see if you can recall that

19   meeting.   We'll step out and let you consider that.

20                  THE VIDEOGRAPHER:     Off the record.

21                  (Off the record.)

22                  THE VIDEOGRAPHER:     We're back on the

23   record.

24      Q.      (BY MR. BURNS)   Okay.    Ms. Garcia, my last

25   question before we took a break was if you could
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    recall the third board meeting at which you believe

2    you were not allowed to speak on the same terms as

3    other members of the public.    Have you had a chance

4    to recall that third meeting?

5       A.    No.

6       Q.    Okay.    I want to back up and ask just a

7    couple of follow-up questions hopefully about the

8    prior meetings.    Let's talk first to the September

9    2001, more or less, meeting where you were talking

10   about the positions.    You indicated that a trustee

11   and -- and someone else indicated that -- that -- I

12   believe you said to the board's attorney that you

13   should be cut off.   Is that -- is that an accurate

14   statement of your testimony?

15       A.   If I can recall, when I was watching the

16   video, that is what I picked up from it.

17      Q.    Okay.    Who was the trustee that you're

18   talking about?

19      A.    It was Mr. Randy Dunn.

20      Q.    Okay.    And it was Doctor Sauceda as well?

21      A.    Doctor Sauceda who stated that.

22      Q.    Okay.    And who was the attorney, if you

23   know?

24      A.    Jeff Roarke.

25      Q.    Okay.    And who actually asked you to -- or
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
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1    told you you were out of order?

2       A.    I cannot recall.

3       Q.    And did they indicate it was because it was

4    a personnel matter?

5       A.    I can't recall, either.

6       Q.    Okay.   But this is on a meeting tape?

7       A.    Yes, sir.    That is correct.

8       Q.    Okay.   October, November 2001, the second

9    meeting, if I recall, that we were talking about, who

10   at that meeting told you you were out of order?

11       A.   It was Mr. Roarke.

12       Q.   Okay.   Also the board's attorney?

13       A.   The board's attorney.     But -- if -- I can't

14   recall -- the top of my head, who was the one that

15   mentioned, and then he went ahead and said, "You are

16   out of order."

17       Q.   Okay.   Did he mention why you were out of

18   order, give a specific reason?

19       A.   No, sir.     At that time, he didn't.

20       Q.   Okay.   And you were also discussing salaries

21   and positions that -- or attempting to address that

22   issue?

23       A.   Yes.    That's correct.

24       Q.   Okay.   One other follow-up matter.     We've

25   talked about several individuals whether they were
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    specifically told to your knowledge or belief by

2    Doctor Sauceda not to associate you -- with you.    I

3    believe we talked about Abel, the runner, you

4    indicated that you didn't have any evidence that he

5    was told directly by Doctor Sauceda; is that correct?

6       A.     Correct.

7       Q.     Okay.   Were you here for Mrs. Ortiz's

8    deposition?

9       A.     Yes, sir.

10      Q.     Okay.   Do you recall her stating that no one

11   told her specifically not to associate with you?

12      A.     That -- Do I -- Repeat the question again,

13   please.

14      Q.     Do you recall Norma Ortiz testifying earlier

15   today that no one told her -- Doctor Sauceda did not

16   tell her specifically not to associate with you?

17      A.     I can't re- -- I can't recall it.

18      Q.     Okay.   And pardon me if this is a

19   repetition, but did Hector Gonzalez tell you that he

20   was told specifically by Doctor Sauceda not to

21   associate with you, or was that what you perceived to

22   be his impression?

23      A.     I -- I don't know.   I -- I can't answer that

24   question.

25      Q.     Okay.   You don't know whether Doctor Sauceda
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    did or did not specifically tell Mr. Gonzalez not to

2    associate with you?

3          A.    He was mentioned -- My name was mentioned in

4    a conversation that Mr. Gonzalez and Doctor Sauceda

5    had.

6          Q.    Okay.   The question is:   Do you know or not

7    know whether that specific conversation took place

8    between Mr. Gonzalez and Doctor Sauceda?

9          A.    I was told by Mr. Gonzalez he could no

10   longer socialize with me.

11          Q.   Okay.   Did Doctor -- Did Mr. Gonzalez tell

12   you that Doctor Sauceda had told him this?

13          A.   Doctor Sauceda told him he was socializing

14   with the wrong individual, with me, with Ms. Garcia.

15          Q.   He said, "You are socializing with the wrong

16   individual"?

17          A.   Mrs. Garcia.

18          Q.   Yes.

19                      Did he tell him not to socialize with

20   you, to your understanding?

21          A.   He was told that he couldn't socialize with

22   me.    He was socializing with -- with Mrs. Garcia.

23          Q.   Just to be clear, did Doctor -- did Hector

24   Gonzalez tell you that Noe Sauceda said, "Do not" --

25   "You're socializing with the wrong person"?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
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1       A.    I can't -- I can't answer that.

2       Q.    Okay.   Mr. Cavazos, do you know if he was

3    told -- did he indicate to you that he was told by

4    Doctor Sauceda not to associate with you?

5       A.    Mr. Cavazos was told by Doctor Sauceda?      Was

6    that the que- -- What was the question again?

7       Q.    Yes, ma'am.

8                  Was -- was -- Did Doctor Sauceda tell,

9    in your understanding, Mr. Cavazos not to associate

10   with you?

11      A.    I don't know.

12      Q.    Okay.   How about Sandra, the secretary?     I

13   think you've already answered that.   But is that

14   also, no, you don't know?

15      A.    I thought I had already answered those

16   questions.   That's why -- I don't -- I don't -- I

17   don't know -- I don't know if you're rephrasing the

18   sentence or --

19      Q.    Ma'am, what I'm trying to do is see if you

20   have knowledge, whether through a third person or

21   directly, of any conversations between any of these

22   six individuals you've mentioned and Doctor Sauceda.

23      A.    Every individual -- and I have a list of

24   witnesses that have come to me and have been told not

25   to socialize with me.    And those are their words.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
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1           Q.   Okay.   Who -- Do you have any witnesses that

2    were told by Doctor Sauceda not to socialize with

3    you?

4        A.      Those are some of the individuals that felt

5    threatened if they socialized with me because they

6    were told they were socializing with the wrong

7    indiv- -- with Mrs. Garcia.

8        Q.      Okay.   I -- Bear with me.   I'm asking a very

9    specific question.     I'm asking about conversations

10   directly between Gonzalez, Ortiz, Tapia, Abel,

11   Cavazos, or Sandra, where Doctor Noe Sauceda said do

12   not socialize with Catalina Garcia or words to that

13   effect.     Do you have knowledge of those

14   conversations?

15          A.   I have knowledge be- -- Yes.   I do.

16          Q.   Okay.

17          A.   They were told not to socialize with

18   Catalina Presas Garcia.

19          Q.   By Doctor Sauceda?

20          A.   By Doctor Sauceda.

21          Q.   Okay.   Do you have any idea when that

22   conversation took place between Gonzalez -- Hector

23   Gonzalez and Doctor Sauceda?

24          A.   No, sir.

25          Q.   Okay.   Before you told us, I believe, that
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1    Abel -- you said Abel had not been told directly by

2    Doctor Sauceda to not socialize with you.

3       A.    He was told by a third party.

4       Q.    Okay.   So --

5       A.    He was told by another individual.

6       Q.    Okay.   Is that the same with Hector

7    Gonzalez, that he was told by a third individual?

8       A.    No, sir.

9       Q.    You -- you think he had a conversation

10   specifically with Doctor Sauceda?

11      A.    I was told by Mr. Gonzalez he had a

12   conversation with Doctor Sauceda regarding

13   socializing with me.

14      Q.    Okay.   Was he told specifically not to

15   socialize with you?

16      A.    I cannot answer that right now.

17      Q.    Okay.   Are you aware of any conversations

18   between Marilyn Del Bosque Gilbert and any other

19   individual in which she told individuals not to

20   associate with you?

21      A.    I can't answer that.

22      Q.    Okay.   I'm going to ask the same question,

23   if I could, regarding Randy Dunn.   And you can

24   exclude from that answer your prior testimony on

25   Mr. Cavazos.   Any person other than Mr. Cavazos that
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    Randy Dunn told not to associate with you?

2                   MR. PRUNEDA:      Objection, form.

3       A.      I -- I can't recall right now.

4       Q.      (BY MR. BURNS)    Okay.   And again other than

5    Mr. Cavazos, are you aware or have a belief that

6    there was a conversation between Eddie Errisuriz and

7    any other individual not to associate with you?

8       A.      No, sir.   I can't recall right now.

9       Q.      Okay.   I think we've already covered Doctor

10   Sauceda.

11                  Okay.    Just a couple more questions on

12   these board meetings.       And I apologize if I've

13   already asked this.     But who was the presiding

14   officer at the September 2001 board meeting?

15      A.      It was -- I can't remember.     I can't -- I

16   can't remember.

17      Q.      Okay.   I'm sorry.    I missed one of our prior

18   parties.   Oscar Tapia, are you aware of any

19   conversations between any of the individual

20   defendants, Sauceda, Gilbert, Erri- -- Errisuriz, or

21   Dunn, wherein that Mr. Tapia was told do not

22   associate or socialize with Catalina Garcia?

23      A.      I can't recall.      I -- I don't know.

24       Q.     Okay.   We've been talking in terms of -- of

25   political retaliation.      Are you claiming that you
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    were discriminated against because of associations

2    with a group of people?

3        A.      He --

4        Q.      The example I gave this morning to Ms. Ortiz

5    was a Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green party,

6    Communist party.

7        A.      Yes.    You -- It's clearly been -- seems that

8    way.    It looks that way.

9        Q.      Okay.   What is that?   What is that group

10   that you're a member of that you believe as being

11   singled out for different treatment?

12                      That -- Let me -- let me rephrase.

13                      Does that group have a formal name?

14          A.   No.    There's no -- there's no formal name --

15          Q.   Okay.

16          A.   -- To the group.

17          Q.   Okay.   Can you tell me who the members of

18   that group are?

19          A.   Mr. Joe Cadriel, Mr. Otis Powers,

20   Mr. Patrick Layman, Mr. Joe Colunga.       That's the

21   group that supposedly we're being, you know, labeled

22   for because of socializing with them or being in

23   their party.

24          Q.   Does this group have, as you understand it,

25   any fundamental principles or beliefs that they stand
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    for?

2        A.      Yes.    Their beliefs are to make sure that

3    this district is -- is heading the right direction,

4    that we succeed in education, that our funding is --

5    is well balanced through the whole year to where

6    we're able to -- to have the monies that is needed or

7    required.     Their -- their main goal is to make sure

8    that the district is run properly and the way

9    taxpayers expect for it to be run.

10          Q.   Okay.   Is it your position that the other

11   faction wants the district badly managed and to not

12   have enough money?

13          A.   It's not in that sense.   It's that the

14   knowledge versus what some of them have versus

15   what the others -- and the intention of what one

16   party wants or one group wants versus the other.

17   We've suffered a downfall, and it's very clearly in

18   books and in black and white as to the difference

19   where one group was making certain decisions versus

20   another group making the other decisions.

21          Q.   Is it fair to say that what we're talking

22   about is just a disagreement as to management style?

23          A.   No.    The -- Even the morale of all employees

24   seemed to have changed, feel less threatened, with

25   the group that is trying to head towards the right
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
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1    direction.   There is a change among board members

2    where they're unanimous versus what we had prior.

3    The decisions being made were not decisions based on

4    facts or following of policies and procedures, where

5    we, the citizens, were very much concerned as

6    following our guidelines and our policies.   I mean,

7    if they created those policies local and state,

8    they're there for a reason.   And as our leaders, what

9    we expect is for them to be able to do their job.

10       Q.    Can you explain to me how that's not simply

11   a disagreement as to the proper management of the

12   district?

13       A.    It was very -- very clearly in the -- on the

14   board meetings when certain issues arose and certain

15   individuals had questions.    There was numerous

16   complaints, concerns by taxpayers approaching the

17   board:   Why are these issues happening?   Why is this

18   money being spent this way?

19                 Somebody had to salvage whatever is

20   left.

21       Q.    How -- If -- if you were to give me three

22   core principles that your political group has that

23   the -- that the competing political group or the

24   group you claim has retaliated against you does not

25   have, what would those be?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1       A.     Knowledge.

2       Q.     Knowledge of what?

3       A.     Knowledge of funding, previous experience in

4    being in the leader -- in -- in their positions that

5    they're in.   They were previous elected officials.

6    The experience that they've had within the district

7    as running the district.

8                    Two, familiar with the policy and

9    procedures.

10                   Three, the funding of the monies that

11   we had in our fund balance was an outrageous amount

12   of 100 million versus what we have now that we're in

13   the red -- in the red, just within a year grace

14   period.

15      Q.     Okay.   So you're saying the -- the group

16   opposite you on the political spectrum wants to run

17   in the red, they don't want any knowledge, and they

18   don't want any prior experience; is that the -- is

19   that what you're telling me?

20      A.     Not in those words.    It's just that their

21   concern -- the -- the initiative -- they didn't show

22   initiative of wanting to really do what was best for

23   our district.     In other words, things deteriorated in

24   our district.     Numerous complaints, internal

25   complaints, personnel issues, hiring practice, when
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    we brought it up to their attention it's like, "It's

2    okay.   So what?"   The attitude, the type of vision

3    for the district, you could tell.

4       Q.    Would you agree with me that people of good

5    faith can have difference -- difference of opinions

6    as to what is the best district -- best direction for

7    the district?

8       A.    Not when you have a district that has been

9    considered the wealthiest district in the whole state

10   of Texas and then all of a sudden our funding drops.

11   I think, yes, everybody's entitled to their own

12   opinion, but what's the best opinion to move forward

13   and make what's best for this community and for this

14   district?

15      Q.    You're telling me that -- that your

16   solutions to the governance of the district are the

17   only conceivable right decisions, there's no room for

18   any disagreement on management issues?

19      A.    No.    You can have disagreements, but make

20   sure that the decisions that are going to be based

21   are going to be for what is best for this -- this --

22   what is best for this district, what is best for

23   taxpayers, --

24      Q.    Okay.

25      A.       -- What is best for the children of this
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    district.

2       Q.    So I'm going to ask you one more time.    Why

3    is this not simply a disagreement as the best way

4    to -- a disagreement as to the best way to manage the

5    district?

6       A.    It's very visible in our videotapes when

7    certain issues were brought up in the board meetings.

8       Q.    Well, let's go ahead and go to videotapes on

9    that.

10                MR. BURNS:     Is this cued up?

11                MR. DE LOS SANTOS:    Yeah.

12                MR. BURNS:     I'd like you, if you would,

13   for just a few minutes with us here, watch this

14   videotape we've marked as Exhibit 1.

15                MR. PRUNEDA:    I'm going to object to

16   the playing of the video as I haven't seen it or

17   viewed it prior to.   It's been part of the request

18   for production.

19                MR. DE LOS SANTOS:    The request for

20   production is not due until the 30th.

21                THE VIDEOGRAPHER:    Do you want me to

22   get that?

23                MR. DE LOS SANTOS:    Yeah.

24                (The following is taken from the

25                videotape that was being played
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1                  during the deposition.)

2                  MS. GARCIA:    Good evening,

3    superintendent, existing board members,

4    administration, and audience.   My name is Catalina

5    Garcia, for those of you who don't -- don't know me.

6    Once again, most of us are here with much concern.

7    Some of us here are witnesses of the approved pay

8    increase, the percentage.    And as I go along, these

9    are just concerns that have arisen within the

10   district and from people outside the district.

11                 Mr. President, we come to you and ask

12   you as our main leader to, please, look into these

13   issues as you have already done.    New employees are

14   being hired without the proper qualifications and/or

15   without a job description being posted.      Some

16   employees have gotten hired without the vacancy being

17   posted, like I just said and mentioned, without even

18   board approval.   Our district recently hired someone

19   in one of our departments without the qualifications

20   and board approval, paying this person between 40 and

21   $45,000.00.

22                 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:   Mr. --

23   Mr. Chairman, we can't talk about specific employment

24   decisions in open session.    We can continue this in

25   executive session, which can be posted for next week,
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    pursuant to the rules that were read before we

2    started.

3                    UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:   The -- the topic

4    that's open is -- is generalized areas, not some

5    specific hire.

6                    UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:   If --

7    Mrs. Garcia, if you can --

8                    MS. GARCIA:   Can I continue just for

9    the last part?    I'll skip that and just go into the

10   salaries.    Because, I -- I mean, I was here when the

11   increase was approved by you, Mr. President, and the

12   other board members as three percent for

13   administration and classified was five percent.    But

14   somewhere along the line -- I made a special trip two

15   weeks ago, and I had to be witness of certain

16   issues.     And I'm very grateful that you, or whoever

17   did, brought it up to our attention before we even

18   brought it up to you.

19                   As the main leader of our board

20   members, we believe in you.     And -- and we believe

21   that your intentions are to better our district and

22   to do what's best for each and every one of us as

23   taxpayers and as employees.    Okay?

24                   I guess if Mr. Roarke says that I can't

25   discuss this --
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1                   UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:      No, ma'am.   The

2    rules say that you can't discuss it.       I mean -- I'm

3    telling you what the rules are.

4                   MS. GARCIA:    Okay.    I'll go ahead and

5    look it up.

6                   Well, anyway, there is an issue that I

7    would like to discuss with you, Mr. President, and

8    some of you board members.      I have this tape.    And I

9    was told previously that being a politician, I'll

10   have to pay the price and that's the reason why I

11   might not get hired in the district.        Being a citizen

12   from Brownsville, I know that there's been previous

13   board members that are now employed by BISD.        I have

14   two conversations here, and I would like for one of

15   you to have the courtesy to call me so you can listen

16   to the tape.

17                  Thank you.

18                  UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:      Thank you.

19                  (This is the end of the videotape being

20                  played during the deposition.)

21      Q.    (BY MR. BURNS)      Okay.    Ms. Garcia, is there

22   any reason you have that -- to believe that that is

23   not an accurate recording of the board meeting in

24   question?

25      A.    That that's not accurate?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.      Has that tape been doctored in any way, if

2    you will?

3       A.      No.

4       Q.      Okay.    Do you have any reason to believe

5    that Mr. Roarke or the board president would not have

6    made the same ruling regarding personnel issues if

7    another person had been speaking?

8       A.      I cannot answer that.

9       Q.      Okay.    You made some allegations regarding

10   that audiotape, in particular I believe you said you

11   were told that having been a politician you could not

12   be hired in the district; is that correct?

13      A.       That is correct.

14      Q.       Okay.   Had you listened to that -- listened

15   to that tape --

16      A.       No, sir.

17      Q.       -- Before that meeting?

18      A.       It's been awhile.   And I haven't heard it in

19   a long time.

20      Q.       But my question is:    Did you listen to the

21   tape before that meeting?

22      A.       Did I listen to the tape before this

23   meeting?

24      Q.       Yes, ma'am.

25      A.       No, sir.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.    So you didn't really know what was on that

2    tape, did you?

3       A.    I got to hear some part of it.

4       Q.    Did you hear the part where you allege

5    Doctor Sauceda told you that being a politician you

6    had to pay the price?

7       A.    Did I hear the part?    I haven't heard the

8    tape in awhile, sir.    I cannot answer that question.

9       Q.    Prior to the board meeting, did you hear

10   that specific part where you claim Doctor Sauceda

11   said that having been a politician you had to pay the

12   price or words to that effect?

13      A.    Prior to the September 15 board meeting?

14      Q.    Prior to the meeting that we just watched on

15   videotape.

16      A.    I cannot answer that question.

17      Q.    Okay.    You don't know whether you had

18   listened to the tape or not?

19       A.   I cannot recall, sir.

20      Q.    Okay.    Have you had a chance to listen to

21   the tape since?

22      A.    No, sir.

23      Q.    Okay.    Is this the tape that you were

24   discussing in the meeting, this Exhibit Number 2?

25      A.    Yes, sir.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.      Okay.   Can you describe when that

2    conversation that was recorded took place?

3       A.      May the 8th, 2001.

4       Q.      May the 8th, 2001?

5       A.      May the 8th, 2001.

6       Q.      Okay.   Can you tell me when and -- excuse

7    me -- where that conversation took place?

8       A.      At the BISD building, superintendent's

9    office.

10      Q.      Okay.   Were there any other persons present

11   in that conversation other than yourself and Doctor

12   Sauceda?

13      A.      No, sir.

14      Q.      Okay.   Excuse me.

15                  Do you have any other tapes whether

16   they're in existence now or previously that record

17   conversations with Doctor Sauceda and yourself?

18      A.      No, sir.

19      Q.      Okay.   Have you tampered with this tape in

20   any way?

21      A.      No, sir.

22      Q.      Has this tape been damaged in any way that

23   you're aware of?

24      A.      Not that I know.

25      Q.      Okay.   Do you still contend that that tape
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    contains statements by Doctor Sauceda that you are

2    not going to be hired by the Brownsville ISD because

3    of your political affiliations?

4       A.    I could not answer that right now, sir.

5       Q.    Okay.   If I represent to you that it, in

6    fact, does not contain those allegations, do you have

7    any reason to doubt my representation?

8       A.    I was told by Doctor Sauceda -- and I recall

9    very clearly -- he told me these words, "That's the

10   price you pay for being in the political arena."

11      Q.    Okay.   I'll object to responsiveness.

12                   Do you still contend that those

13   allegations are on that tape?

14      A.    I cannot recall.    I haven't heard the tape.

15      Q.    Would you like to take time to listen to the

16   tape?

17      A.    No, sir.

18      Q.    You're not interested?

19      A.    I will hear that with my attorney.

20      Q.    Have you ever given this tape to a news

21   media outlet?

22      A.    No, sir.

23      Q.    Have you ever told anyone you gave it to a

24   news media outlet?

25      A.    No, sir.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1          Q.      You've never told anyone you gave it to a

2    national news organization?

3          A.      I contacted a national news organization to

4    invite them down to our community to see some of the

5    issues that were happening.

6          Q.      I'm -- I'm sorry.      I missed the first part

7    of that.       It's not your fault.     I just blacked out

8    there.

9          A.      I made -- I made contact with a national

10   news media to come down and see if they wanted to

11   visit with our district in regards to concerns that

12   the community had.

13         Q.      Okay.    Who was that media outlet?   What was

14   it?

15         A.      I can't recall.      It was a nationwide

16   broadcasting.         I can't recall who it was, but I -- At

17   this point in time, I can't remember.

18         Q.      Was it one of the big three, ABC, NBC, CBS?

19   CSPAN?       CNN?

20         A.      No.   It was --

21         Q.      MSNBC?    Reuters?

22         A.      No.   I can't --

23         Q.      AP?

24         A.      It was -- I don't know if it was NBC or

25   CBS.       It was one of them, but I can't recall right
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
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1    now.

2          Q.    Okay.   Do you recall who you talked to?

3          A.    It was a gentleman, but I can't recall his

4    name.

5          Q.    Okay.   Do you know what city this person was

6    in?

7          A.    It was up in -- I -- I started with the

8    local station here and then they transferred me, and

9    so I don't know where I ended up with.

10          Q.   Okay.   Do you recall whether the local

11   station was an affiliate of the network that you

12   called?

13          A.   Yes.

14          Q.   Okay.   Do you remember the name of the local

15   station?

16          A.   No, sir.

17          Q.   How many local stations are there?

18          A.   We have NBC 23, KRGV TV, and KGBT.

19          Q.   Okay.   Are those the three big networks?

20          A.   That are connected to the ABC and CBS, yes.

21          Q.   Yes.    Okay.

22                      So you had not listened to this tape

23   before the -- before the board meeting?

24          A.   That is correct.

25          Q.   Okay.   So basically when you told the board
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    that that tape included statements by Doctor Sauceda

2    that you wouldn't be hired, you were not being

3    truthful with the board, were you?

4       A.      I was being very truthful, sir.

5       Q.      If that tape doesn't contain those

6    statements, how do you believe you were being

7    truthful to the board?

8       A.      Because it is the conversation that I had

9    between Doctor Sauceda and myself.

10      Q.      But the conversation is not on the tape; is

11   that correct?

12      A.      I cannot answer you that question, sir.

13      Q.      Okay.   Did you not indicate that the tape

14   did include that statement, though?

15      A.      If I'm not mistaken, I believe that's what I

16   mentioned.

17      Q.      Okay.   So you were just simply incorrect?

18      A.      It might be.

19      Q.      You've worked with the Brownsville

20   Independent School District in the past; is that

21   correct?

22      A.      That is correct.

23      Q.      And we've talked about that at some length.

24                   Did you apply for positions with the

25   Brownsville ISD in the year 2000?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
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1       A.    I believe so.   I don't recall.

2       Q.    Okay.   Do you remember having some

3    interviews set up with Judy Cuellar in the personnel

4    office to come in and interview?

5       A.    I believe so.

6       Q.    Okay.   Do you remember missing those

7    interviews?

8       A.    I re- -- re- -- rescheduled those interviews

9    and then she had to hire somebody.

10      Q.    Okay.   I have what I'm going to represent to

11   you are some notes from Ms. Cuellar.   She indicates

12   that -- to paraphrase, that in both instances you

13   called after the scheduled appointment time to

14   indicate that you couldn't show up; is that correct?

15       A.   I -- By reading this notes maybe, but I

16   didn't remem- -- I couldn't recall the timing.

17      Q.    Okay.   Do you have any reason to doubt the

18   truthfulness of those notes?

19      A.    No.

20      Q.    Okay.   So back in 2000, you didn't care

21   enough about an empl- -- a job with the Brownsville

22   Independent School District to show up for an

23   interview; is that correct?

24      A.    No.   That is not correct, sir.

25      Q.    Why would you then call after your scheduled
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
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1    appointment time to cancel the interview?

2          A.   If I'm not mistaken, it must have been when

3    I was tied up doing something.     I can't even -- if it

4    was in September, I can't even remember.

5          Q.   Was there anything to prevent you from

6    calling before the scheduled time?

7          A.   I can't re- -- And this -- this is three

8    years ago, and I can't remember why I didn't make it

9    or why I didn't call her prior to that time.

10         Q.   Okay.   Would you -- would you agree with me

11   that it's a fair statement that if someone is

12   interested in getting a job, they'll at least make an

13   effort to show up for an interview?

14         A.   Or call.

15         Q.   Or call before the interview time?

16         A.   Which is -- I can't remember, sir.

17         Q.   Okay.   After the May 2001 elections, you

18   applied again for various jobs with the Brownsville

19   ISD?

20         A.   Sixteen different positions.

21         Q.   Sixteen different positions.

22                  Can you name any of those positions for

23   me?

24         A.   At this point in time, it's been awhile.    I

25   haven't seen the documents, so I cannot recall.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.      Okay.    Can we assume that if you applied for

2    16 different positions that those documents will show

3    up in your personnel file with the school district?

4       A.      I don't know.

5       Q.      Okay.    Let me -- let me clarify that

6    question.    That was very poorly phrased.

7                    When you apply for a position, what is

8    the process you go through to apply for that

9    position?

10      A.       The process is to get an application.    You

11   get your three references, forms.      Those three

12   reference forms are submitted to three of your

13   references that they're going to refer you to the

14   district.    They mail out those forms to the

15   district.    You drop off your application with your

16   resume.     And then they put it -- I believe in a file

17   and then just keep it there for a year, because every

18   year you have to renew.

19      Q.       Okay.   Let me interrupt you there, if I

20   could, just to make sure that we understand the

21   process.    The beginning step is that you fill out an

22   application and get references and then you are -- if

23   I understand correctly, you are eligible to then

24   apply for specific positions?

25      A.       The positions need to be posted.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.       Okay.   And how do you express to the

2    Brownsville ISD your interest in those specific

3    positions?

4       A.       Because you go and you look at the bulletin

5    board to see what positions are open.     Every position

6    has a -- a number, job order number.      From that job

7    order number, you place it on your letter of intent.

8    So for every job order number, you have to make a

9    letter of intent.

10       Q.      Okay.   That was exactly what I was -- was

11   wondering is -- is in order to express your interest

12   in a given job, you fill out a letter of intent for

13   that job?

14       A.      For every position.

15          Q.   Okay.   And you -- you -- you say you have

16   done this for 16 different positions?

17       A.      I did that for the positions that I applied

18   for.

19       Q.      Okay.   How many of those positions were

20   after the May -- May 2001 elections?

21       A.      I can't -- I can't recall the dates or the

22   months.

23       Q.      Do you recall if any of them were before the

24   elections?

25       A.      They were all after the election.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1        Q.      Okay.   Do you know the various managers who

2    made the hiring decisions for those jobs you applied

3    for?

4        A.      No, sir.   Because the names are not on

5    the -- on the job openings, --

6        Q.      Okay.

7        A.      -- On the job orders.

8        Q.      Do you know who the employees were for one

9    or more of those positions that were actually hired?

10          A.   No, sir.

11          Q.   Okay.   Do you have any reason to believe

12   that those persons that were hired are less qualified

13   than you are?

14          A.   I can't answer that question.

15          Q.   Okay.   Were any of those managers, to your

16   knowledge or belief, told not to hire you?

17          A.   I applied for one position where the

18   individual is a witness.

19          Q.   And which one is that?

20          A.   It's for the purchasing.

21          Q.   Purchasing.

22                   And who is the manager that was in

23   charge of reviewing applications for that position?

24          A.   Kenneth Lieck.

25          Q.   Now did you work for Mr. Lee (sic)
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    previously?

2       A.     No, sir.

3       Q.     Okay.   Your -- You have mentioned his name

4    once before in -- in your testimony.       Do you recall

5    what that was?

6       A.     Where he felt threatened if he spoke to me

7    or sat down with me at the meetings.

8       Q.     Oh, okay.    Thank you.    I appreciate you

9    re- -- refreshing my memory there.

10                 Did Mr. Lee (sic) tell you that he was

11   told by anybody not to hire you?

12       A.    I cannot answer that question right now.

13       Q.    Is -- is it because you don't know?

14       A.    I -- I can't recall at this time.     I

15   don't -- I couldn't say.

16       Q.    Okay.

17                 MR. PRUNEDA:     It's Kenneth Lieck.

18       Q.    Oh, I'm sorry.   I pronounced that name

19   wrong.   It's "Lieck" as you --

20       A.    L-I-E-C-K.

21       Q.    -- As you mentioned the first time, not

22   "Lee."

23                 Okay.     All right.   When you were in the

24   facilities department as a secretary, do you recall

25   an incident involving Melinda Henderson?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.    Melinda Henderson, yes.

2       Q.    Yes.

3                    And let me hand you what has been

4    marked Exhibit 3.    Do you recognize those documents?

5       A.    (No response.)

6                    MR. BURNS:    I think we need to go off

7    the record for just a minute to give the Witness time

8    to review the documents.

9                    THE VIDEOGRAPHER:    Off the record.

10                   (Off the record.)

11                   THE VIDEOGRAPHER:    Back on the record.

12      Q.    (BY MR. BURNS)      Okay.   Mrs. Garcia, have you

13   had an opportunity to review those documents?

14      A.    Not completely.      It's not a very clear copy.

15      Q.    Okay.   You do remember the incident in

16   question, though?

17       A.   Fairly remember the incident.

18      Q.    Okay.   Do you remember that your supervisor

19   indicated that -- that he believed that you were

20   abusive to other staff members?

21      A.    Not abusive.     In the tone of voice that I

22   have, that's what he called abusive.      But he knows me

23   well, that that's the way I come across.

24      Q.    Okay.   Did he not indicate that in the

25   write-up, that you were abusive?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.    It was the tone of voice that I used.

2       Q.    Did the report indicate that you were

3    abusive to other staff members in his estimation?

4        A.   I could -- That report is not very clear to

5    me so I must have missed that, because it's probably

6    towards the end where I couldn't --

7       Q.    Okay.    Do you know if -- if the report

8    indicates that your supervisor believed that you were

9    behaving in an unprofessional manner?

10      A.    Maybe.

11      Q.    Okay.    Were you also warned that another

12   incident such as this would result -- or could result

13   in your termination?

14      A.    That is correct.

15      Q.    Okay.

16      A.    Both of us.

17      Q.    It -- Okay.    And -- You and Ms. --

18      A.    Both employees would.

19      Q.    You and Ms. Henderson were both --

20      A.    That is correct.

21      Q.    -- Warned?

22      A.    Not just one.

23      Q.    Okay.    So there wasn't anything singled out

24   against you?

25      A.    No, sir.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.    Okay.

2       A.    It was both employees.

3       Q.    Did this -- did this altercation in- --

4    include any physical contact between yourself and

5    Ms. Henderson?

6       A.    No, sir.

7       Q.    There was no hair pulling?

8       A.    No, sir.

9       Q.    No slapping?

10      A.    No, sir.

11      Q.    Okay.   Isn't it true that this incident was

12   the reason for your being sent to Hanna High School?

13      A.    No, sir.

14      Q.    Okay.   Would you agree with me that a

15   manager looking back through your personnel file when

16   you're applying for a new job could determine that

17   maybe you're not a pleasant person to work with?

18      A.    That is not correct, sir.

19      Q.    You -- Your -- your testimony today is that

20   a -- that a manager looking at this write-up could

21   not reasonably form the opinion that you're not a

22   pleasant person to work with?

23      A.    That is correct, sir.

24      Q.    Okay.   Thank you.

25                Have you applied with the City of
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    Brownsville for any positions since May of 2001?

2       A.     May of 2001?    No, sir.

3       Q.     You have not applied?

4       A.     I don't recall at the -- Let me see.       May

5    2001?    No, sir.

6        Q.    Okay.     Have you applied with the

7    Brownsville -- City of Brownsville, any of its

8    departments, since the last time you were employed

9    with the Brownsville School District?

10       A.    I worked for the City of Brownsville back in

11   199- -- '99 through 2000, I believe.

12      Q.     Okay.     Have you --

13      A.     I can't recall.

14      Q.     I'm sorry.     I didn't mean to step on the end

15   of your answer.

16                  You say you can't recall?

17      A.     I can't recall what year.    But I went back

18   to the City of Brownsville.

19      Q.     Okay.     You have since terminated your

20   employment with the City of Brownsville?

21      A.     I finished my employment with the City of

22   Brownsville.

23      Q.     Okay.     Have you since applied for any

24   additional positions at the City of Brownsville since

25   the time you last left?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.      No, s- -- Not that I recall.

2       Q.      Would you like to think about that for a

3    minute?

4                      Just -- just to be sure that we're

5    clear, that you haven't -- you haven't -- Your

6    testimony today is you have not applied for any

7    positions with the City of Brownsville since the last

8    time you left the City's employment?

9       A.      I can't recall.    I know that the last time I

10   worked with the City of Brownsville was at Public

11   Works with Mr. Carlos Ayala.

12      Q.      Okay.   What were the circumstances of

13   leaving the Public's (sic) Works department?

14      A.      I resigned.

15      Q.      Okay.   Why did you resign?

16       A.     Because I went to go work for another

17   company.

18      Q.      Okay.   What was that company?

19      A.      Obra Homes.

20      Q.      Okay.   Can you spell that first name for me?

21       A.     O-B-R-A.

22      Q.      O-B-R-A.

23                     Do they -- They advertise on television

24   here, don't they?

25      A.      Yes.    They do.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.    Okay.    Mr. Canales is their spokesperson on

2    one --

3       A.    Uh-huh.

4       Q.    -- Commercial?

5       A.    Yes.

6       Q.    Great.

7                    Okay.   Have you ever told anybody that

8    you were a -- a -- an owner, any port -- part owner

9    of Obra Homes?

10      A.    I was -- like I would invest, or shares, or

11   if I felt that I could put in, then I would, you

12   know, try to see if I can invest a little bit of my

13   money, but never to the point that I was one of the

14   strong shareholders or anything like that.

15      Q.    Were you ever issued shares in the company?

16      A.    That -- We had the opportunity.

17      Q.    Okay.    So you had the opportunity, but you

18   never actually invested in the company?

19      A.    We were like realtors practically selling

20   the homes for them and making "X" amount of prof- --

21   you know, profit.

22      Q.    Okay.    You were not employed by Obra then?

23      A.    I was employed by Obra.    It was -- The

24   way -- It's -- it's like -- I guess I can't really

25   clarify how they sell or how they do it because
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    it's -- it's --

2       Q.    Let me make -- Let me try to clarify,

3    just -- just in the interest of time.      Is it fair to

4    say that you were employed as a commissioned

5    salesperson?

6       A.    Yeah.    You might want to say that.

7       Q.    Did you receive a base salary?

8       A.    No.

9       Q.    Okay.    Strictly commission?

10      A.    Yes.

11      Q.    Okay.    But your checks, when you did get

12   commissions, came directly from Obra Homes?

13      A.    They came directly -- No.       It didn't -- It

14   was a certain bank.    It wasn't from the company.    I

15   don't recall how they paid.

16      Q.    Well, maybe I phrased that badly.

17                   Was Obra Homes the owner of the account

18   that -- that -- from which you were paid?

19      A.    I think they had separate accounts.      I don't

20   know how they paid.    I just know that it was separate

21   entities.   First National Bank or something like

22   that.

23      Q.    Okay.    Fair enough.

24                   And you indicate you were -- you were

25   never actually issued shares in Obra?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.      No.    Just -- No.

2       Q.      Okay.   Did you ever invest any money in the

3    company?

4       A.      Yes.

5       Q.      Okay.   How did you -- How did -- What -- Did

6    you make them a loan?     How did that work?

7       A.      No.    It was -- I can't recall how it worked,

8    but it was only for, like, about 11 months or so.

9        Q.     Okay.   Who did you -- who did you work with

10   at Obra to invest that money in the company?      Who was

11   your contact person, I guess is how I should ask

12   that?

13      A.      Mr. -- I can't recall the gentleman's name

14   right now.

15      Q.      How much money did you invest?

16      A.      I can't remember --

17      Q.      Was it more --

18      A.      -- The figure.

19      Q.      -- Than $1,000.00?

20      A.      Yeah.

21      Q.      More than $10,000.00?

22      A.      No.

23      Q.      Okay.   And how did you get your money back?

24      A.      Through me selling.     In other words, we had

25   to get our own customers to buy.      We had to prospect
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    on our own.

2       Q.    Okay.      Was this a situation where you were

3    buying a franchise?

4       A.    No.    No.     I don't think -- I can't

5    remember.    I can't recall right now.

6       Q.    Okay.      Well, I'll tell you what, if that

7    becomes important we'll check with Obra.      In the

8    interest of time, I'm going to move on to -- to some

9    other issues.

10                   I want to talk about the May 2001

11   election.     Is it -- is it correct you ran against

12   Marilyn Del Bosque Gilbert?

13      A.       That is correct.

14      Q.       Okay.   Who encouraged you to run in that

15   election, if anyone?

16      A.       No one, sir.

17      Q.       Okay.   Was there a group that supported your

18   candidacy?

19      A.       Yes, sir.

20      Q.       Can you tell me who some of the more

21   outspoken members of that group might be, in your

22   estimation?

23      A.       In general, it was the counselors, teachers.

24      Q.       Any of the tr- -- sitting trustees?

25      A.       No, sir.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.      Okay.    You ran once before, did you not?

2       A.      2000.

3       Q.      Okay.    And you were defeated by Mr. Powers?

4       A.      That is correct.

5       Q.      Did Mr. Powers support your candidacy in the

6    2001 election?

7       A.      I don't know.

8       Q.      Okay.    The 2001 election, that was about 60

9    percent for -- in rough numbers, for Ms. Del Bosque

10   Gilbert and 40 percent for yourself?

11      A.      I don't remember.    I don't recall.

12      Q.      Do you remember the margin of -- of

13   victory?   How many votes?

14      A.      Well, it was a ti- -- I really can't recall

15   because there was times that we were having problems

16   at our county with our voting system, so --

17      Q.      Okay.    You --

18      A.      I --

19      Q.      You, at one point, were going to ask for a

20   recount.    Did you do that?

21      A.      No, sir.

22      Q.      Okay.    Did you indicate to Doctor Sauceda

23   that you were going to seek a recount?

24      A.      I did.    I told him that people wanted for me

25   to seek a recount, but there was no sense in doing a
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    recount.

2        Q.     Why is that?

3        A.     Because I -- What for?    She won.   She won.

4    There was no need for me to go and ask for a recount

5    and -- and spend money on -- where the numbers were

6    there.

7                     The recount was being asked for me to

8    do because of the machine, the way the system had

9    gone down.    And, so, the individuals that had

10   supported me stated, "Well, why don't we ask for a

11   recount?"    But I told them, no, just --

12       Q.     Okay.   Let me clarify.   You said, "the

13   machine."    Are you talking about the voting machines

14   or the --

15       A.     The voting machines.

16       Q.      -- Political machine?

17       A.     No.   The voting machines --

18       Q.     Okay.

19       A.      -- At the county courthouse.

20       Q.     Is it fair to say that your -- your final

21   decision was that the -- any -- any irregularities

22   with the voting machines would not overcome the

23   margin of victory?

24       A.     To me, it wouldn't have made a difference.

25   I mean, she won by 20 percent, so what's the use of
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    getting a recount?     It wasn't even a -- it wasn't --

2    To me, it wasn't a close race.

3       Q.    Okay.    Were you disappointed after losing

4    this election?

5       A.    No.

6       Q.    Not disappointed at all?

7       A.    Not at all.     Not at all.

8       Q.    Come on.      You can -- you can tell me.

9       A.    No.

10      Q.    Okay.

11      A.    Honestly, not at all.

12      Q.    You -- you -- you literally could take it or

13   leave it?

14      A.    Oh, yes, sir.     Just like I did with

15   Mr. Powers.

16      Q.    Okay.    All right.   So you didn't need any

17   medical or psychiatric advice after the election?

18      A.    No, sir.

19      Q.    Okay.    You never took any prescription

20   medications after the -- after the election?

21       A.      No, sir.

22      Q.    Okay.    Do you recall a meeting after the

23   election in the superintendent's office, the -- at

24   the point where you asked -- that you told him you

25   were going to indicate -- excuse me -- you indicated
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    to the superintendent that you were thinking of

2    seeking a recount?

3       A.    I indicated to him that I was being asked to

4    seek for a recount.

5       Q.    Okay.

6       A.    Not myself, sir.

7       Q.    Okay.   Do you recall staring out the window

8    at a billboard with your picture on it and not

9    responding to the superintendent for some period of

10   time?

11      A.    No, sir.

12      Q.    Okay.   You were not -- Fair to say you were

13   not -- not upset at all --

14      A.    No, sir.

15      Q.    -- At losing?

16      A.    No, sir.

17      Q.    It's just one of those things that happens?

18      A.    You win or you lose.

19      Q.    Okay.   Change of directions again.    I want

20   to know what mental anguish you claim to have

21   suffered as a result of the actions you're alleging

22   in this lawsuit.

23      A.    First of all, just the fact that people call

24   me because they fear -- or they felt intimidated

25   during a certain grace period at the BISD building,
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    where they would call me at my house or they would

2    call me on my cell phone.    And it was just a worry, a

3    concern that these people were crying for help, and

4    no one could do anything for them.   Or they

5    approached me to -- to help them out and to go before

6    the board and to speak before the board.     I mean,

7    just -- just the thought that -- that I couldn't just

8    turn my back on them and do nothing for them, just

9    mentally having to prepare myself for the board

10   meetings as to see how it would be best that we could

11   question these issues because there's certain ways

12   that you need to ask them.    I mean, just at work,

13   having to think that, okay, I -- You know, they

14   would -- they call me at work.    They call me at

15   home.   They call me on my cell phone.   Just numerous

16   amount of employees that feel concern because they

17   weren't being heard or -- they felt that I was the

18   only one that could do something for them.

19      Q.    Okay.

20      A.    In a sense of having to help these people

21   out, but yet having no answers for them, solutions

22   for them, so mentally, just stressed, couldn't sleep,

23   lost sleep over the worries that these people are

24   going through or issues that were affecting me

25   because -- like for an inst- -- for an example, the
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    insurance, my husband pays outrageous, you know --

2    he's got an outrageous monthly rate for the insurance

3    because our committee was not coordinated -- well

4    coordinated to decide as to who or how they were

5    going to hire the insurance company.   I mean, just

6    numerous things.

7       Q.    Okay.   Just to recap, you've -- you've

8    indicated that you fought the good fight in the

9    election, if you'll excuse my expression, lost fair

10   and square, you're not upset about losing?

11      A.    No, sir.

12      Q.    What is it about these people calling you up

13   causing this mental anguish that you attribute either

14   to the school district or any of the four individual

15   defendants?   What did they do to enhance that pain in

16   some way?

17      A.    That they don't listen --

18      Q.    If you could hang on just a second and we'll

19   let her change that tape.

20      A.    Uh-huh.

21      Q.    Okay.   Thank you.   I'm sorry for the

22   interruption.

23      A.    They don't -- They were not being heard.

24   You know, that -- that there's policies and

25   procedures that -- that the board or these
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    individuals could have followed to avoid or prevent

2    all this anger towards people inside the building

3    that -- that they just felt uncomfortable with the

4    fact that they were being abused.

5       Q.     Is there anything about your situation under

6    those circumstances that distinguishes you, Catalina

7    Garcia, from any other member of the public that

8    doesn't feel like they're being listened to?

9       A.     What was the question again?

10      Q.     I'm asking what the dri- -- school district

11   or any of the individuals you've sued in this case

12   have done to cause you mental anguish.

13      A.     They put me in a -- in a -- in a spot, in a

14   predicament, in a situation where people come to me

15   because they know that I can approach the board with

16   no fear, with no anger, just -- with no fear of --

17   of, well, they're going to fire me because I'm within

18   the district.     So they've put me in that spot where

19   people come to me to speak before them on their

20   behalf.

21      Q.     Okay.   Explain to me, if you can, how they

22   put you in that position.    And I'm going to ask you

23   to, first, tell me:    How did Doctor Sauceda put you

24   in that position?

25      A.     Maybe if these individuals would have
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    listened to their employees at the time of plea or

2    cry or asking for questions and -- and seeing that

3    they were manipulated or pushed around, maybe it

4    wouldn't have gotten this far.

5       Q.    Okay.    I'm going to try, with your -- with

6    your permission, to kind of short-circuit that

7    question and ask you, together, is there anything

8    that Mr. Errisuriz, Ms. Del Bosque Gilbert, Mr. Dunn

9    has done other than what you're relating with regard

10   to Doctor Sauceda as to causing you mental anguish?

11      A.       Well, they've -- they've told numerous

12   amounts of my friends that I've had friendship with

13   for many years -- some of them I've had -- they've

14   been friends of mine since 1993 when I first started

15   with the school district -- and they've told them,

16   well, you know, don't hang around with her, stay away

17   from her.    I mean --

18      Q.    Are any of these people people we haven't

19   spoken about before, previously in this deposition?

20      A.    (No response.)

21      Q.    You've mentioned a number of names.    Are --

22   are any of these people that you're talking about now

23   different than the persons we've spoke about earlier

24   in the deposition?

25      A.    Ye- -- Yes.     There's -- there's -- there's
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    numerous amounts of people that -- that either have

2    approached or have confronted the board, the -- the

3    superintendent -- or -- or the superintendent or one

4    of the board members said, well, she's crazy, you

5    know, she doesn't know what she's talking about.     I

6    mean, that -- that builds up eventually inside of you

7    as:   Am I really not doing what's right?   Is it --

8    What am I doing wrong?   Is -- is justice wrong?     Is

9    it not right that what is wrong we need to bring it

10   up to an individual that is abusing?

11                  I mean, to me, that is wrong.   All I'm

12   doing is just trying to clarify and make sure that if

13   you have a rule book, then you go by that rule book.

14   Then, why have a rule book if you're not going to

15   follow the guidelines and the procedures.   If you

16   tell employees this is the way things are done, but

17   then yet they see you doing things differently, what

18   message are you sending to the employees inside --

19   within the building?

20         Q.   Uh-huh?

21         A.   Then, citizens from the outside that -- just

22   like -- for an example, Mr. Cavazos, for someone to

23   go to his office, to go and tell him, you continue to

24   socialize with Mar- -- Ms. Garcia -- that is wrong.

25         Q.   Okay.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
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1       A.      So that means that I no -- I have to lose my

2    friends because of someone's power or someone's

3    authority?

4       Q.      Okay.   I'm going to object to that as

5    nonresponsive.

6                   My question was:    What have any of

7    these individuals done to you specifically to cause

8    you mental anguish?

9       A.      They've kept friends away from me.

10       Q.     Okay.   Let's talk about who those friends

11   are.    I want you to list every one of them that you

12   can recall.

13       A.     Right now I can't -- The friends that I used

14   to have lunch with.     For example, if I used to have

15   lunch with J.J. -- He's one of the secretaries at the

16   building.    If I -- let's say, Kenneth Lieck and his

17   group of -- of girls, when they had parties or

18   certain celebrations.     Hector Gonzalez, we couldn't

19   have lunch.    I mean, just numerous amounts of people

20   that felt that if they were seen with me, that

21   they -- they would be labeled.

22       Q.     Okay.   I believe we've already spoke about

23   Mr. Lieck and Mr. Gonzalez at some length.

24                  Do you know if anyone ever told J.J.

25   Not to associate you -- with you or that his job
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1    would be in peril?

2       A.      I couldn't answer that.    I don't know that.

3       Q.      Okay.   Again in the interest of time, I'm

4    going to ask you a question that applies to all of

5    the individual defendants.

6                   Let me first ask you about Brownsville

7    Independent School District separately.      Is there --

8    If I understand your pleadings, you're not claiming

9    that the Brownsville Independent School District has

10   done anything to intentionally inflict emotional

11   distress on you or to invade your privacy; is that

12   correct?

13                  And we'll come back to the other

14   defendants in a moment.     But right now I'm just

15   asking as to the school district itself.

16                  MR. PRUNEDA:    Objection, form.

17      A.      I -- I -- I can't answer that.

18      Q.      (BY MR. BURNS)   Okay.    Let's -- Let me ask

19   you, if I can -- and if you prefer I asked you

20   separately, then we'll proceed that way -- can you

21   tell me if you're claiming that any of the individual

22   defendants have done something to intrude upon your

23   seclusion, that is to say invade your privacy?

24      A.      I -- I can't answer that.

25      Q.      Are you claiming that any of these four
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
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1    individuals has somehow invaded your privacy by

2    disclosing private facts about you?

3       A.    I can't answer that right now.

4       Q.    Okay.   And bear with me.   I think we're --

5    we're coming rapidly to the end.

6                 As to all of the four individuals, can

7    you name or -- or -- or give me any instances where

8    you believe that these -- these ladies and gentlemen

9    have intentionally inflicted emotional distress on

10   you or acted in such a way to inflict intentionally

11   emotional distress?

12       A.   What was the question again?   I'm sorry.

13       Q.   As to any of the individual defendants, Del

14   Bosque Gilbert, Dunn, Errisuriz, or Sauceda, have any

15   of those individuals done something or failed to do

16   something that you believe was intended to

17   intentionally cause you emotional distress?

18       A.   I believe so.

19       Q.   And which of those individuals do you

20   believe have done that, or -- or is it all of them?

21       A.   I believe Randy, Errisuriz, and Sauceda.

22       Q.   Okay.   Let's start with Mr. Dunn.   What act

23   or omission do you believe was committed by Mr. Dunn

24   with the intent of inflicting emotional distress on

25   you?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
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1       A.    Having to talk to Mr. Cavazos and his

2    secretary at the City of Brownsville, at the police

3    department.    I mean, he told his ex-secretary at the

4    city -- city police -- at the police department that

5    why does she hung (sic) around with me if I was a

6    crazy individual, that I was -- I didn't know what I

7    was doing.

8       Q.    Let me back up and make sure I've -- I've

9    got this.    Are you saying that the thing he did

10   intentionally to cause you emotional distress is that

11   he talked to his former secretary at the police

12   department?

13      A.       And went to go tell her that.

14      Q.       Okay.   And who -- What is that person's

15   name?

16      A.       Mary Rosas.

17      Q.       Mary Rosas, R-O-S-A-S.

18      A.       R-O-S-A-S.

19      Q.       Yes.    Okay.

20                      Anything else that you claim Mr. Dunn

21   has done to intentionally cause you emotional

22   distress?

23      A.       Just the fact that at the board meetings,

24   him as a board member -- there was a meeting that

25   I -- one or two meetings that I got up and I spoke
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1    before the board, and what a coincidence, he was the

2    only one that got up and walked.     He was not

3    concerned as a leader to hear what the concerns are.

4       Q.    Okay.   You're saying that he just --

5       A.    As soon as I'd walk up --

6       Q.    He gave the appearance of not listening to

7    your comments?

8       A.    Exactly.

9       Q.    Okay.

10       A.   As soon as I walked up to the podium, it was

11   like get up and go.

12       Q.   Okay.   Anything else?

13                   And again I'm trying to ask these

14   questions quickly, but feel free to take all the time

15   you need to think about this.     I'm not trying to rush

16   you.

17       A.   I -- I -- I can't -- I can't -- Right now I

18   can't recall.

19       Q.   Okay.   How about Mr. Errisuriz?

20       A.   He --

21       Q.   What -- Let me rephrase that question.

22                   What acts or omissions do you think

23   that he took with the idea of intentionally

24   inflicting emotional distress upon you?

25       A.   Just the fact that he walked into someone's
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1    business and -- and -- and told him -- or practically

2    threatened him to stay away from me and -- and not

3    socialize with me or have any friendship with me

4    because he wouldn't have a job.   That -- that just --

5    bothered me in the sense that this man that --

6       Q.    In -- in the interest of time, are we

7    talking about the incident involving Mr. Cavazos and

8    his secretary?

9       A.    And his secretary.

10      Q.    Okay.   Anything else other than that -- that

11   alter- -- meeting that you're claiming that was done

12   intentionally to inflict emotional distress upon you?

13      A.    He was the director of human resource at the

14   time that I applied.

15      Q.    Do you have any reason -- any -- any -- Is

16   it your belief that -- and excuse me -- I'm going

17   call him Eddie again -- that Eddie took any steps to

18   prevent you from getting interviews or a job?

19      A.    I don't -- that -- I -- I don't know.

20      Q.    Okay.   Has anyone told you that he took some

21   steps to prevent you from getting a job or an

22   interview?   And again we're talking specifically

23   about Eddie.

24      A.    Oh, I don't -- I don't know right -- I don't

25   know.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
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1       Q.     Okay.   I apologize if I just asked this.

2    But are there any other incidents involving Eddie

3    other than the meeting with Cavazos?

4       A.     I can't -- Right now I can't remember.      I'm

5    sorry.   I can't remember.

6       Q.     That -- That's quite all right.

7                  And let's move on to Doctor Sauceda.

8    What acts or omissions do you believe Doctor Sauceda

9    committed with the idea of intentionally causing you

10   emotional distress?

11      A.     Talking to numerous individuals and letting

12   them know that I was his number one worst enemy and

13   not -- you know, that because they were seen eating

14   with me they were reassigned or practically labeled.

15   And -- and -- and the times that I went to the board

16   also, when -- I mean, the way -- I mean, it's just

17   the fact that I would go over there with concerns

18   because people came to me and I was only trying to do

19   my duty, but yet he looked perturbed, bothered when I

20   would go and -- and just look at me like, you know,

21   here you come again, you know.   I mean, just things

22   like that.

23      Q.     Okay.

24      A.     And the fact that he told most of my

25   coworkers that I -- I was -- used to work with at the
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1    district, that -- practically not to socialize with

2    me.

3          Q.   Okay.

4                   THE VIDEOGRAPHER:    I'm sorry.   Can I

5    take a quick break?    I need to swap tapes.

6                   MR. BURNS:    Certainly.

7                   THE VIDEOGRAPHER:    Okay.   Off the

8    record.

9                   (Off the record.)

10                   THE VIDEOGRAPHER:    Back on the record.

11         Q.   (BY MR. BURNS)   Okay.   Thank you.

12                  Ms. Garcia, I believe the last thing we

13   were talking about before we changed tapes was what

14   Doctor Sauceda had done that you considered to have

15   been with the idea of intentionally causing you

16   emotional distress.    And if I recollect properly, one

17   was you claimed that he -- there were people that

18   were --

19         A.   Being --

20         Q.   -- Worried about reassignments, if you

21   will.

22         A.   Worried about reassignments if they

23   socialized with me, if they were seen eating with me

24   during lunch hour.    Just the fact that I dwelled

25   on -- on, well, maybe if I -- shouldn't have gone
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1    into politics, my -- my chances would have been

2    different.   I just couldn't understand that it came

3    from an individual so highly educated, and for him to

4    tell me that that would be the price that I paid for

5    being in the political arena, and then to question me

6    that how would two individuals feel if I was to come

7    back into the district, which those individuals had

8    no say-so or approval on having to have their

9    signature on my hiring.

10       Q.   Okay.    Did Doctor Sauceda indicate to you

11   that -- Let me back up a second.

12                 Who are the two trustees we're talking

13   about that would be displeased perhaps if you were

14   hired?

15       A.   It was Mrs. Marilyn Del Bosque Gilbert and

16   Mr. Randy Dunn.

17       Q.   Okay.    And tell me one more time.   I

18   apologize for being repetitious.    What exactly did

19   Doctor Sauceda say to you regarding those two

20   trustees?

21       A.   He asked me, "Well, Ms. Garcia, how would

22   you feel -- how do you think Ms. Del Bosque and

23   Mr. Dunn feel if we bought you back into this

24   district?"

25       Q.   Okay.    Do you believe that Doctor Sauceda
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1    took any actions to prevent you from getting a job at

2    the Brownsville ISD?

3        A.   I strongly believe that.   I firmly believe

4    that.

5        Q.   Okay.    What -- what evidence do you believe

6    supports that belief?

7        A.   There's individuals that I have on the

8    witness list that will state that, why I wasn't

9    hired.

10       Q.   Okay.    In the interest of time, have we

11   discussed all of those individuals previously, to

12   your knowledge?

13       A.   Yes.    For instance, right now as we speak,

14   Mr. Hoskins, Charles -- retired Lieutenant Charles

15   Hoskins, he was also told that his wife and him

16   should not socialize with me, that if -- if he didn't

17   socialize with me, his wife would be taken care of in

18   the district.

19       Q.   Okay.    Who -- who did Mr. Hoskins indicate

20   made this statement to him?

21       A.   Mr. Dunn and -- and Doctor Sauceda.

22       Q.   And do you believe these actions were taken

23   specifically to inflict emotional distress upon you?

24       A.   Yes.     I do.

25       Q.   Okay.    Anyone else other than Mr. Hoskins
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1    and the people we've already talked about?

2          A.    I can't -- I can't remember.

3          Q.    Okay.    The other thing you indicated that

4    was done intentionally to inflict emotional distress

5    was that Doctor Sauceda indicated by his facial

6    expression, according to you, that he wasn't pleased

7    to see you at a board meeting; is that a correct

8    statement?

9          A.    Right.    That is correct.

10         Q.    Okay.    Did he in any way attempt to prevent

11   you from coming in?

12         A.    No.   Not into the board meetings.

13         Q.    Okay.    Did he -- No.   Never mind.

14                     Any other items, acts or omissions,

15   that you believe were committed specifically to cause

16   you emotional distress that we haven't talked about

17   yet, that you can recall?

18         A.    Just the fact that I would get home, my

19   children wouldn't spend time with me because I would

20   be out there trying to fight for justice for the

21   people that felt threatened, harassed.       The mora- --

22   I mean, just the whole building, the morale was

23   down.      People -- I didn't just have clerks,

24   secretaries calling me.      I had administrators calling

25   me.   I practically had a conversation with an
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1    administrator that literally cried before me asking

2    for help.

3       Q.    Okay.    I -- I certainly appreciate your --

4    your civic-mindedness in addressing these people's

5    concerns.    But right now what we're talking about,

6    was any of that done?    Were any of these people, in

7    your opinion, put in this position specifically to

8    cause you mental distress?

9                    MR. PRUNEDA:    Objection, form.

10      Q.       (BY MR. BURNS)   In your belief.

11                   Do you have any -- do you have any

12   belief as to whether these people were harassed or

13   reassigned or any action taken against them

14   specifically for the purpose of causing you emotional

15   distress?

16      A.       Of the individuals that hung around with me,

17   that were my friends?

18                   What was the question again?

19      Q.       Do you believe anything happened to any

20   employee of the school district with the specific

21   objective of causing you emotional distress?

22      A.       My feelings would get hurt when one of my

23   friends was reassigned or -- or dropped from -- I

24   mean, placed in a position where he or she did not

25   deserve it because they were performing what was
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1    expected.

2       Q.      Do you have any reason to believe that that

3    action was taken, though, against that employee with

4    the idea of getting at you?

5       A.      Of course.       To see if I would back off.   To

6    see if I would just let everything go.

7       Q.      Okay.    What -- what basis do you intend to

8    rely on for that -- for that claim?

9                       MR. PRUNEDA:    Objection, form.

10      Q.       (BY MR. BURNS)     Or is this just a -- Is this

11   just simply a belief on your part?

12      A.       I don't -- I cannot answer that question.

13      Q.       Okay.   I'm going to ask the same questions I

14   asked Ms. Ortiz, more or less, on your attorney's

15   fees.   How is your attorney being paid in this

16   lawsuit?

17      A.       It's --

18      Q.       And -- and let me clarify.      Is -- is he

19   being paid on a condin- -- by you on a contingency

20   basis or an hourly basis?

21      A.       Contingency.

22      Q.       Okay.   Do you have a written fee agreement?

23      A.       Yes.    I do.

24      Q.       Do you recall how much -- what contingency

25   is being awarded -- or excuse me -- is being paid by
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1    you under that agreement?

2       A.    Top of my head, I can't recall.

3       Q.    Okay.   Do you have -- You have a copy of the

4    fee agreement, though?

5       A.    I sure do.

6       Q.    And if we ask for that, you can produce it?

7       A.    Yes, sir.

8       Q.    Okay.   Do you know of any other person

9    that's paying any part of your attorney's fees for

10   you?

11       A.   No, sir.

12       Q.   Okay.   Any other person paying any court

13   costs or expenses to your attorney?

14       A.   No, sir.

15       Q.   Okay.   Anybody reimbursing you for either

16   costs or fees incurred in this litigation?

17       A.   No, sir.

18                  MR. BURNS:     Okay.   I'll pass the

19   Witness at this time.

20                  MR. ZAYAS:     Do you need to take a break

21   or anything?

22                  THE WITNESS:    Yes.

23                  MR. ZAYAS:     Okay.

24                  THE VIDEOGRAPHER:      Off the record.

25                  (Off the record.)
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
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1                           EXAMINATION

2    BY MR. ZAYAS:

3        Q.   Mrs. Garcia, my name is Richard Zayas.       I'm

4    here in representation of Marilyn Del Bosque on an

5    individual basis.    I just need to ask you a couple

6    more questions.    I'm going to try to make this as

7    quick as possible.   Okay?

8                    With regards to prior lawsuits, prior

9    to this one, how many other lawsuits have you had?

10      A.    How many other lawsuits?    Two.

11       Q.   Okay.    One was --

12      A.    One was with Strawberry Square Plaza.    The

13   other one was -- was a dismissed case.

14      Q.    Okay.    What was the one was -- that was a

15   dismissed case?

16      A.    The dismissed case was where it was four of

17   us that were filing a fraud case lawsuit.    And it was

18   dismissed.   We both agreed that the company, Obra --

19   and -- and we, the people, because it was in a group

20   of four -- that felt that it was fraud.     I had sold a

21   total of 64 homes.   By the time the turnaround of my

22   homes that were going to be built, it was going to be

23   the year November of 2002, December of 2002.    And we

24   felt that the only way we were going to get

25   compensated what we had done is that we had put an
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
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1    escrow account.   And as a matter of fact, I seeked

2    this friend of mine -- walk me through it, that how

3    could we do it in order for them to be able to pay us

4    for the long hours that he -- we had already

5    invest- -- invested in the company, and asides (sic)

6    that, that we had gone out to seek for all the buyers

7    that were -- we -- we had been selling to.      For

8    instance, I was the one that had sold the most

9    homes.   So what we did was we sued, and then they

10   countersued.   And then we ended up -- both parties

11   agreed that we kept our own money.

12                  We paid -- They were going to -- In

13   other words, instead of me getting my money that I

14   was going to get, like about, let's say, $56,000.00,

15   I ended up staying just with $17,000.00.   And I

16   agreed to that.   The other gentleman agreed to stay

17   with whatever he had stayed with, the other

18   individual, so --

19       Q.    Who were -- who were the other individuals

20   in the lawsuit with you?

21       A.    I cannot recall the -- all the names.       I

22   know that it was three -- Three of us were females,

23   and there was one gentleman.

24       Q.    Can you give me any of their names?

25       A.    One of them was Ruben.   And I can't recall
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1    his last name.

2       Q.      Any of the females?

3       A.      Ruben -- I can't remember.

4                   No.   As a matter of fact, I have not

5    even seen the individuals for awhile.

6       Q.      What was the basis of the counterclaim that

7    they were making against you?

8       A.      That we had kept their money and that we

9    were not -- In other words, we were -- we had all

10   figured it out, that we had been hired on a fraud

11   basis.   They had told us we were going to get "X"

12   amount of money if we brought in "X" amount of profit

13   to the company, but we had to set a goal.     In other

14   words, if one individual said, "I'll bring you 15

15   people and we're going to lock them up, this is how

16   much we're going to get us down.   This is how much

17   profit we're going to bring into the company."     But

18   it didn't work that way.

19                  They -- they'd tell -- they'd tell us,

20   okay, in 30 days turnaround, you get "X" percentage

21   of that.   But it wasn't like that.     It was until the

22   home got built.

23                  Then, during the process, when we were

24   closing other homes that belonged to other sales

25   rep (sic) that had left, they were coming to ask us
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
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1    for the money, like, you know, "That is my home that

2    I sold.    You give me the money that is owed to me."

3    And I was like, well, wait a minute.

4                   So what we all figured out, that it was

5    a fraud.   It was -- it was a fraud when people got

6    hired.    So that's the reason why all four of us went

7    and filed the lawsuit.

8                   And then they decided to just back off,

9    and -- and we said, "Okay.     Fine.   Let's just stay as

10   it is.    We don't claim any more homes.   We don't

11   collect any more of our money.     You stay with the

12   profit.    You keep it.   And just settle."   So that's

13   what it -- it -- It got settled out of court.

14       Q.     So their counterclaim was basically that you

15   all had kept some funds that you weren't supposed to

16   keep?

17       A.     We put it in an escrow account, so that's

18   what it was.

19       Q.     Okay.

20       A.     So -- And we were -- you know, we were

21   guided.    We asked for -- for help, for legal advice

22   to -- to walk us through to see what could we do

23   in -- in this matter.     We were being cheated out of

24   this business or this salary.     Some of us didn't see

25   anything until -- I believe there was an individual
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1    that didn't see any money until five months after she

2    had started working.   And -- and most of us were

3    there only with the company for maximum -- I was the

4    longest one there -- for, like, about 11 months --

5    because I tried to pull through until I saw all of

6    the investment that I had brought in and then for me

7    to get paid.

8       Q.    Explain to me this investment that you

9    made.

10      A.    What we would do is we would commit to the

11   company to get -- let's say they told -- They would

12   ask me, "Okay.   Caty, how many people can you commit

13   to lock up and secure the sale and that -- that

14   they're going to be fine, that they're going to close

15   the home, they're going to move in?"   So I would

16   commit -- let's say I would say 12 for the month of

17   June.

18                  And then the following month, the

19   beginning of the month, they would say, "How many are

20   you going to commit for the next month?"   I would

21   say, "Okay.    Now I'm going to go -- I made my 12.

22   I'm going to bring you 13."

23                  So we would go -- We would do our

24   own -- we would do our own business cards.   We would

25   do our own -- I mean, everything was paid out of our
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1    pocket.    Company never gave us anything.

2       Q.      So the investment was basically promotional

3    investment?

4       A.      Promotional and selling.

5       Q.      In other words, --

6       A.      And --

7       Q.      In other words, your time obviously?

8       A.      The --

9       Q.      Your --

10       A.     Selling of the lots because we had to --

11   like -- let's say they would give us a floor plan and

12   they would say, "Okay.    Caty, which lots do you --

13   which lots do you think you're going to be able to

14   sell?"    Because the lots are only a certain square

15   feet.     So they would tell us, "Okay.   What size of

16   home fits here?"     It was -- They had them by names.

17   So then I would say, "Okay."     Well, the corner lots

18   usually are a little bit more expensive.     And, of

19   course, the house has to be a little -- could be a

20   little bit more -- smaller, depending on the size of

21   the width, of the length of the property.     So we

22   would say, "Okay.     I'm going to sell this block right

23   here."    And then the other sales rep that was

24   assigned to the same subdivision, or wherever they

25   were from, would say, "Okay.     I'm going to sell these
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    over here."    So they would block them out.   And a

2    certain sales rep would be in charge of selling that

3    block for that -- those lots.    It was 10, 12, 13

4    lots.

5        Q.   Okay.    But your investment was in what?

6    In -- in gas?     Showing -- showing people, right?

7        A.   Well, I would need to go show them to the

8    sites.

9        Q.   Right.

10                   The card?

11       A.   The card.    The -- the -- just --

12       Q.   The vehicle itself that you're using, and

13   the mileage, right?

14       A.   Just everything, in general.

15                   We wouldn't see our profit until the

16   home was built.    But as we started seeing the -- the

17   time -- the turnaround of the home, when it gets

18   built, we started figuring out:    How is it that

19   they're going to build "X" amount of homes for us?

20   Like you sold 8; I sold 12.    Right now they're barely

21   finishing what we sold -- or what was sold a year

22   ago.

23                   So we started putting the pieces

24   together as to, hey, we're not going to see anything

25   out of this.    We're bringing the sale.   They're
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    putting the down.    You know, we're making the

2    deposits.    We're doing this for them, but yet we're

3    not seeing our pay.

4                    So then there was a time frame that

5    everybody was so frustrated and upset, I guess, that

6    we all got together.     We had a meeting.   We said,

7    "Hey, well, how many homes have you gotten paid

8    on?"    "Well, none."    "Well, how many home" -- So we

9    started saying, hey, now wait a minute.      You know,

10   it's -- it's -- This is practically fraud, because

11   you can't wait a whole year or a year and months to

12   get paid before your homes are built.

13                   So then as we proved to them that there

14   was -- the -- the time framing (sic) of the building

15   of the homes before you could even close your own

16   home --

17          Q.   Right.

18          A.   -- Was a long period.   I mean, we wouldn't

19   see anything.

20          Q.   But you didn't invest in -- in the

21   traditional sense.      Like, for instance -- for

22   instance, you didn't buy any shares in Obra Homes,

23   correct?

24          A.   I -- The first time I only bought with a

25   gentleman that -- he wanted to buy -- he bought a
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    home -- He's no longer with the company, as a matter

2    of fact.    We bought a home.      And he bought it like --

3    I invested.       I helped him for the closing.   I

4    invested.    And then I think he did like two or three

5    issues like that where he, himself, bought the home

6    but then was reselling it.

7       Q.      Reselling?

8       A.      Exactly.

9       Q.      But that's not with Obra.

10       A.      That's with Obra.

11       Q.      No.   No.   But --

12       A.      That's how --

13       Q.      The gentleman was buying it for himself to

14   resell and for him to make the profit, not Obra.

15       A.      For us to make the sale.

16       Q.      Right.    But not --

17       A.      It -- it was still through Obra.      It was

18   through -- Because what we were doing, we were trying

19   to close -- he was trying to -- to close the deals,

20   buy the home and then get another buyer and then he

21   would get -- that's how we would got our -- our

22   share.

23       Q.      Okay.    But that -- that's where you and this

24   gentleman would get the share?

25       A.      Uh-huh.     That we would pay off.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1       Q.    Obra -- Obra Home would only get the money

2    from the initial sale of the house?

3       A.    Of whatever -- Yes.    Whoever bought it --

4       Q.    The profit that they --

5       A.    -- Who made the profit.

6       Q.    -- Made on --

7       A.    Uh-huh.

8       Q.    -- On the actual building of the house?

9       A.    Uh-huh.

10      Q.    So that investment that you're talking about

11   right now is the investment with the other gentleman,

12   not with Obra Homes --

13      A.    Uh-huh.

14      Q.    -- Exactly, correct?

15      A.    Correct.

16      Q.    And then you never subdivided any of the

17   properties, right?   I mean, you never invested in

18   the -- in the purchase of land and --

19       A.   No.   We were asked.   And there was a time

20   where they were hurting and they wanted certain

21   individuals to go ahead and ask -- what we were

22   closing, to go ahead and turn it over to them so they

23   could -- their -- their closings would go a little

24   bit faster, because sometimes their closings would

25   take -- we would sell a house in January and, let's
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    say, it wouldn't be ready until November.

2       Q.    Right.

3       A.    So what everybody was trying to do was help

4    each other out on the closings to try to get --

5    either bring new buyers or somebody who was ready to

6    move into a home.

7       Q.    You worked with Obra for 11 months?

8       A.    I believe I started --

9       Q.    More or less?

10      A.    Yeah.    More or less.   It was -- it was, more

11   or less, --

12      Q.    And you started --

13      A.     -- 11 months.

14      Q.     -- More or less, when?

15      A.    Let me see.   Oh, my God.   It must have been

16   in the year 2000.    2001.   2000 -- The middle -- the

17   middle -- It was the middle -- It was the summer of

18   2000.   Summer of 2000 through -- February, March,

19   April -- through May 2001.

20      Q.    Okay.

21      A.    More or less.

22      Q.    So your employment with Obra Homes ended,

23   more or less, around the same time period as the

24   election --

25      A.     2001.   Uh-huh.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.       -- Of -- of 2001, right?

2       A.     May 2001.   It was either the last week of

3    May or the first week of June.

4       Q.     And when you were advertising on the paper

5    that you were an investor in Obra Homes as part of

6    your advertisement -- correct?

7       A.     Uh-huh.

8       Q.     When you were running for school board, --

9        A.      Uh-huh.

10      Q.       -- That's the investment that you're talking

11   about right now?

12      A.     That is correct.

13      Q.     Okay.   Now, earlier when --

14                   I'm sorry.    Matt, what's your last

15   name?

16                   MR. BURNS:    Burns.

17      Q.     (BY MR. ZAYAS)     When Mr. Burns was

18   discussing this incident that is marked as Exhibit

19   Number 3 --

20      A.     Uh-huh.

21                   MR. ZAYAS:    Can you hand that to her,

22   please.

23                   THE REPORTER:    (Complies with the

24   request.)

25       Q.      (BY MR. ZAYAS)   There was also another
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    incident that happened, right, besides the June 1997

2    incident?

3       A.      The only thing I recall was one incident in

4    the whole entire time that I was with the school

5    district.

6       Q.      If you can review those records, I believe

7    there's a September '97 incident that is also

8    recorded as another fight that took place.

9       A.      No.   It wasn't a fight.    It was a situation

10   where --

11       Q.      That's your signature on that page that

12   you're looking at, is it not?

13       A.      But -- This incident was because -- And let

14   me explain to you what it was.        This incident arose

15   because Mrs. Henderson was transferred from one

16   department to the other, from transportation

17   department to a clerk.     Ms. Henderson used to be a

18   bus driver.      So they didn't have a place to place

19   her.    So Mr. Tapia asked me, "Can" -- "They're going

20   to transfer a bus driver to our department.        Is it

21   okay with you?"     I said, "That's fine if she can

22   learn and understand the filing."       Ms. Henderson had

23   never had any knowledge of -- of clerical or

24   secretarial.     This was her very first opportunity.

25                    So at this time what had happened was
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    that there was a time -- You see this -- This says

2    6-30 right here.   (Indicating.)

3       Q.    I believe that's September.

4       A.    Well, this -- No.     This was received, sir,

5    on September the 23rd.

6       Q.    Can I see that real quick?

7       A.    Evaluation of problem requiring correct- --

8    This was done --

9       Q.    Can I see that?

10      A.    September?

11                   (Complies with the request.)

12      Q.    Does it not say on this document, "On

13   09-18-97, Catalina had another encounter with Melinda

14   Henderson at the reception desk"?

15      A.    Let me see.

16                   Okay.   This incident was when there was

17   a gentleman in the front, and apparently Ms. Me- --

18   Mrs. Henderson had some issue that she was going

19   through -- through problems with her previous

20   marriage or something like that, so I guess she was

21   in a situation where she was kind of upset,

22   depressed.   And my tone of voice, to be very honest

23   with you, Mr. Zayas, is -- is strong.     I have a

24   strong voice.    That is just my way of talking.

25   Everybody knows me like that.    Myself, right now, I'm
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    a manager at a store, a department clothing store,

2    Burlington Coat Factory, you know.   And -- and people

3    know me, that I just have a strong voice, but there's

4    nothing wrong with that.

5                  So that day, I guess she was somewhat

6    depressed, and I went to go ask her about a certain

7    item.   And she took it personal, so she -- she got

8    upset about it and she started crying.   I mean,

9    she -- she -- she felt that I was asking her in a

10   strong manner and she -- she felt upset.

11                 But never, never in my whole time that

12   I was at the school district -- can you (sic) ask my

13   previous supervisors -- did I ever act rude with them

14   towards -- in every manner.   Every employee that came

15   into our department in the maintenance and

16   facilities, including Ms. Henderson, I helped as much

17   as I could.   Ms. Henderson got to work with me.    She

18   was my -- my clerk.   She was the clerk there in the

19   department.   And I mean sh- -- I -- I tried to help

20   your -- her -- help her as much as I could during the

21   times that she needed help.

22      Q.    Okay.   But what I'm trying to refer to right

23   now is the document states that you were written up

24   for fighting; is that correct?

25      A.    Not fighting.   Not physically fighting.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1        Q.      Let me see what the document says.

2        A.      He states -- Well, maybe his wording needs

3    to be reworded because it's not fighting physically.

4    Never have I been involved in a physical fight.

5        Q.      No.   I'm not asking you that.

6                      I'm asking you what you were written up

7    for.    It says this write-up is for fighting and

8    insubordination.      Is that what the document says?

9        A.      "Fighting"?   What do you mean in

10   "fighting"?       Fighting could be in different --

11          Q.   Well, just look at the -- at the last

12   sentence.    I'm asking you what the sentence says.

13   Does it ask whether you were written up for fighting

14   and insubordination?

15          A.   I cannot say that it was fighting.

16          Q.   No.   What I'm asking you --

17                     And I'll object to nonresponsiveness.

18                     Does the document say you were written

19   up for fighting?      That's a "yes" or "no" answer.

20          A.   I don't know, sir.

21          Q.   You can't read the document and what it

22   is -- what it says?

23          A.   Well, right here I'm trying to also go to

24   the attachment, that I need to be aware of what I'm

25   reading.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.      No.

2       A.      I cannot just go by the last sentence --

3       Q.      I'm just asking you --

4       A.      -- Because I need --

5       Q.      -- If that document that you're looking at

6    right now -- Not that one.      The previous one.   Can

7    you go to the page before that, please.

8       A.      Discussing an insubordination I would agree

9    to, but not fighting, sir.

10       Q.     No.   No.   What I'm asking you, ma'am, --

11                    And I'll object to nonresponsiveness

12   again.

13                    Does the document state that you were

14   written up for fighting and insubordination?        Does it

15   use the term "fighting"?

16       A.     But, to you, what is the term "fighting"?

17       Q.     (Sighs.)

18       A.     I want to -- I want you to explain to me --

19       Q.     Ms. --

20       A.     -- "fighting".

21       Q.     Ms. Presas --

22       A.     What's the term of "fighting"?

23       Q.     -- Garcia, please.

24                    I'm asking you what does the document

25   say.    I'm not asking you for the validity of the
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    document.    I'm not asking you if it happened or it

2    did not happen.      I'm just specifically asking you

3    what the document says.

4       A.    Discussion and insubordination.

5       Q.    Can I see that?

6       A.    Fighting and insubordination.

7       Q.    So it does say fighting, correct?

8       A.       That is correct.   That's what Mr. Tapia

9    wrote on there.

10      Q.       Okay.   And Mr. Tapia wrote that three months

11   after the -- more or less, about three months from

12   the June incident.     It's another incident that

13   happens in September; is that correct?

14      A.       That is correct.

15      Q.       And if a potential employer was looking at

16   your file and saw that report, without going into the

17   specifics of exactly what happened and trying to look

18   into the background, if he just looked at the file

19   without even talking to you about it, it would be a

20   reasonable conclusion on his part that you tend to

21   fight, would you agree?

22      A.       Not really, sir.   I wouldn't think that.   I

23   wouldn't say that.

24                   I'm a -- I'm a manager myself, and I

25   don't go by that, sir.     I go by --
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.    Okay.   But --

2       A.    I go by performance.

3       Q.    I understand that.

4                 But I'm telling you if somebody was

5    looking at hiring you, didn't know you from person A,

6    person X, just looked at your file, and he was

7    thinking of hiring you, and he saw these two items on

8    there where you're fighting in June and -- or again

9    written up for fighting in June, and you get written

10   up again for fighting in September, would it be a

11   reasonable inference for that gentleman to make -- or

12   that woman, if she's a supervisor or the person

13   hiring -- to make that you do tend to fight?

14      A.    No, sir.

15                MR. PRUNEDA:     Objection, form.

16      Q.    (BY MR. ZAYAS)   Okay.   Is it your testimony

17   today that you and Melinda Henderson never got into

18   the point of actual physical --

19      A.    Never, sir.

20      Q.    -- Fighting --

21       A.   Never, sir.

22      Q.    -- Where you had to be separated by

23   Mr. Oscar Tapia?

24      A.    No, sir.

25      Q.    Did any of those incidents there happen --
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    have anything to do with you being transferred to

2    Hanna High School?

3       A.       No, sir.   I applied for the position at

4    Hanna High School for the same reason that I felt

5    that I wasn't going to be able to work with an

6    individual that wasn't working with us well --

7       Q.       Which --

8       A.       -- So I decided to move up another ladder.

9    I --

10      Q.       Which was Ms. Henderson?

11      A.       Ms. Henderson.

12                   I decided -- And then I found out that

13   later on, when I was moved, she was reassigned also

14   to another department.

15          Q.   Okay.   So this -- These incidents did have

16   something to do with you applying to go to Hanna,

17   because you didn't want to be there anymore.

18      A.       My -- my -- Myself intention -- Myself, my

19   intentions were to go to a higher level.     I went from

20   a level five to a level six.      The opportunity arose.

21   I took advantage of it.

22      Q.       And who at Hanna hired you?

23          A.   Sylvia Perez and Ms. Sylvia Atkinson.

24      Q.       Okay.   Did you mention that you had worked

25   for Public Works department?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.    Yes, sir.   With Mr. Carlos Ayala.

2        Q.   When did you work with Mr. Carlos Ayala?

3       A.    I was in his department from '99 to 2- --

4    2000.

5       Q.    What months, more or less?

6       A.    I can't recall.    I know that it was through

7    the year of '99 and 2000.

8       Q.    And why did you leave the Public Works

9    department?

10      A.    I wasn't -- I just decided to resign and --

11   and wanted to look for something more where I would

12   be more motivated to where I had more things to do.

13   The -- Where I was at, it was a -- very slow paced.

14   I wasn't happy just doing very little.

15       Q.   Was there any problems at that employment?

16      A.    No.

17      Q.    None at all?

18      A.    Not that -- No.    Not that I recall.   Not

19   with anybody.

20      Q.    Has anybody ever told you that you're

21   difficult to work with?

22      A.    No, sir.

23      Q.    Would you consider these documents

24   indicating that you're a difficult person to work

25   with?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.     No, sir.

2       Q.     When you ran for the school board in May of

3    2001, was it your intention to work for BISD, also?

4       A.     In 2001, after my election my intention was

5    to work for BISD.     Prior to the election, yes, I

6    wanted to go back to BISD.

7       Q.     Do you -- Were you aware that you could not

8    go back to BISD --

9       A.     As a board member.

10      Q.     -- If you were on the school board?

11      A.     I am correct -- That is correct, sir.

12      Q.     When did you learn that?

13      A.     Prior.     But I had applied at BISD in the

14   year 2000.    Which my -- I was not thinking of running

15   for school board until 2001.

16                  I ran for school board 2000 with

17   Mr. Powers.    And at the time, I know that anybody

18   that runs for school board cannot be employed with

19   the school district.     I know my policies from the

20   school district.

21      Q.     Okay.    What is your understanding of the

22   policy?

23      A.     That you cannot be an employee and a board

24   member.   You cannot be an employee for the school

25   district and be a board member, also.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.     Okay.    What is your understanding with

2    regards to after resigning with the school board or

3    not being on the school board anymore, how long do

4    you have to wait before you can apply?

5       A.     I believe it's six months or nine months.     I

6    can't recall.     I know that I saw that in the policy.

7    Because Mr. Joe Rodriguez used to be a board member,

8    and I had discussed that with him.    And he was -- He

9    left the school board and was hired as the athletic

10   director.

11      Q.     And how long was the -- the term for the

12   school board position that you're running for against

13   Otis Powers, how long was that school board position?

14      A.     It was going to be a three- -- three-year

15   term.

16      Q.     How about the one against Marilyn Del

17   Bosque?

18       A.      If I'm not mistaken, I believe that's a

19   two-year term.    I'm -- I can't recall what position

20   that is, but --

21      Q.     Okay.   If you would have won the -- the 2000

22   election, then you wouldn't have been able to be

23   employed by the school district until sometime at the

24   late end of 2003; is that correct?    Or maybe even

25   2004, at the earliest?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.     I -- It might be that that would be the

2    length.

3       Q.     So then your intention was not to work for

4    the -- BISD when you ran for the position in 2000; is

5    that correct?

6        A.    My intention was to work for BISD because I

7    love the district.

8       Q.     Okay.    How was your intention to run for

9    BISD if you just mentioned in your own words that you

10   cannot do both and you are aware that you couldn't do

11   both?

12       A.    I couldn't do both, but I was seeking to do

13   one or the other.     My intentions were to either make

14   sure that I was going to run the district in the best

15   of my ability to, or go back into the district and

16   work as an employee and do the best performance I

17   could for the district or the department, wherever I

18   was to be hired.

19       Q.    Between 2000 and 2001, how many applications

20   did you put in for the school district?

21       A.    2000 and 2001, I only put one -- or two, I

22   think.

23      Q.     And --

24       A.    One or two.

25       Q.    And the other 15 or 14 positions were put in
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
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1    after 2001?

2        A.   They were put after 2001, sir.   After my

3    2001 election, sir.

4        Q.   When was Noe Sauceda put in?

5                  MR. PRUNEDA:    Objection, form.

6        Q.   (BY MR. ZAYAS)   Let me ask the question

7    again.

8                  When was -- when was Noe Sauceda hired

9    by the school district?

10       A.   He was hired -- What do you mean?       As the

11   consultant, which was illegal, or as a

12   superintendent?

13       Q.   As the superintendent.

14       A.   Okay.    As the superintendent, he was to

15   report to our district on June, the year 2001.

16       Q.   Okay.

17       A.   I don't know the date, but I know that --

18       Q.   Did you put any -- did you put any

19   applications between May and June 2001?

20       A.   Yes, sir.

21       Q.   How many did you put in at that time?

22       A.   I can recall as many as four, five.

23       Q.   Okay.    So then you put in four or five

24   applications between May 2001 and June 2001, right?

25       A.   I have -- If I can recall, that -- that's
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    how many I put in.    Yes, sir.

2       Q.     And -- and prior to that, one or two?

3       A.     Well, the prior year -- Now let's clarify

4    here.    The prior year -- It's only good for one year,

5    which means that automatically when you apply after

6    your year you have to, like, renew all the

7    documents.    You can't -- They can't go by the old

8    documents, because what they do is -- I guess they

9    shred them.     So every individual that applies for the

10   school district -- let's say I apply -- the year

11   2000, I applied in June.     That meant that by June

12   2001, I had to go back and redo all my letter

13   recommendations and so forth.

14      Q.     Right.

15                   So you couldn't apply during the time

16   that you were running, right?

17       A.    No.   No, sir.   After May the 8th is when I

18   started applying, sir.

19      Q.     After May the 8th, 2000?

20      A.     2001.

21      Q.     Okay.    Wait, wait.   But you -- Wait.

22                   I think you mentioned that after the

23   election of 2000 you made a couple of applications,

24   also.

25      A.     Okay.    In May -- After May -- after May
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    election with Mr. Powers -- 2000 was Mr. Powers -- so

2    after with Mr. Powers, I applied with the school

3    district.    It must have been anywhere between August

4    through November, somewhere --

5       Q.       Of the year -- of the year 2000?

6       A.       -- Around there.

7                    Of the year 2000.

8       Q.    And --

9       A.    And I only applied at -- And I can recall

10   the positions that I applied for.      I applied for a

11   position where Ms. Judy Cuellar Garcia is at.     She

12   had a -- if I'm not mistaken, it was a level four,

13   level five position, that I applied for.

14      Q.    And you applied for two different positions?

15      A.       I think I only applied for one, one

16   position.    But she had called me twice.   And at that

17   time, I believe --

18      Q.       You just didn't show up?

19      A.       Just didn't show -- I had something to do.

20   I know that I was tied up doing something.

21      Q.       Okay.   But none of your basis of any of the

22   lawsuits you're making on this has anything to do

23   with that position; is that correct?

24      A.       Not with the -- the Judy Cuellar Garcia --

25   with the classified personnel clerk, no, sir.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1           Q.   Okay.   You mentioned earlier that you made

2    16 applications, right?

3                      Or 16 -- You put in your name for 16

4    positions.    I'm just trying to get a clarification

5    when you put in these 16 positions.       Is it -- Are you

6    counting all the way from 2000 to now?       Are you

7    counting between May and June 2001?       Are you counting

8    after June 2001 after Mr. Sauceda got in?       I'm just

9    trying to get a clarification on the numbers and --

10   and the -- and the time periods.

11       A.      Okay.   I started after my May 2001

12   election.    After May the 8th, I -- I went back and

13   started looking for the postings as to what job

14   orders, what openings they had available.       So if they

15   had available at the main office, I applied.       If they

16   had two there at the main office, I applied for those

17   two.    They -- I mean, I cannot --

18       Q.      And you -- and you didn't have to put any

19   more information in, right, because it had been in

20   since August of the year before that, correct?

21       A.      No.   I had to renew it.    As a matter of

22   fact, Mr. Tapia highly recommended me to the

23   position, to all the positions.        My ex-supervisor,

24   Lieutenant Hoskins, highly recommended me to the

25   positions.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1        Q.      Okay.   Those are six positions.   But this is

2    prior to Mr. -- Mr. Sauceda getting into the school

3    district, correct?

4        A.      Well, he was already in the school district,

5    sir.    He was already in the school district.

6        Q.      But he wasn't the superintendent?

7        A.      He was already the superintendent, sir.

8        Q.      Well, I thought you said he went in June

9    2001.

10          A.   June 2001 -- June 2001 is when I applied for

11   the outrageous number of that -- you know, positions

12   that they had available.

13          Q.   Wait, wait.   You already had applied for

14   about six to eight positions, I believe, between May

15   and June.    Didn't you just testify to that?

16          A.   Between May and June, all that -- believe it

17   or not, between May, June, and July, I applied at the

18   school district before the year started.        Before the

19   fiscal school year of 2001 started, I applied a total

20   of positions:       16.

21          Q.   Okay.   But hold on.   I'm trying to take this

22   at -- one at a time.      Between May and June, you

23   testified a little earlier -- and -- and correct me

24   if I'm wrong, you testified that you had made four to

25   six applications.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.    Plus --

2       Q.    Or six to eight.       I -- I don't remember the

3    number that you used.

4       A.    Six -- It was four to six, anywhere between

5    four to six.

6       Q.    Between May and June?

7       A.    Between May and June, June the 30th.

8    Between May and June.     Between May the 8th --

9       Q.    And June 30th?

10      A.       -- And June 30th.

11      Q.    Okay.    And -- and Mr. Sauceda came in when?

12      A.    June -- The first week of June.      He -- he

13   started working the first week of June, 2001.

14      Q.    Okay.    Had some of those applications

15   already been put in prior to him coming in?

16      A.    I think one or two only.      One or two that I

17   remember that I -- that I dropped off.

18      Q.    Okay.    And you weren't hired for either one

19   of those, either?

20      A.    No.

21      Q.    Okay.

22      A.       I think on one of them I didn't meet the

23   deadline.    The one that I had submitted, the --

24   because they say "position must be filled at" such

25   date.   So one of them, that's the reason why.     I
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    didn't meet the -- the deadline for the -- It was

2    already expired.

3       Q.      And I -- and I hate to be super repetitive,

4    but those 16 times -- I'm just trying to get a number

5    on them.   They --

6       A.      Don't make me feel --

7       Q.      I know.    I'm sorry.

8                     They were done between May and July,

9    all the 16?      Or were -- or were you counting the two

10   back in August before, also?

11       A.     No.   That's -- that's counting the -- the

12   ones just for the year 2001.

13       Q.     Okay.   But at least one of those has nothing

14   to do with the district because it was your own fault

15   for not getting it in on time, right?

16       A.     Exactly.

17       Q.     Okay.

18       A.     Exactly.

19       Q.     I just wanted to clarify.

20       A.     One of them, because they hadn't pulled it

21   off.    What -- what happens is that they post the --

22   the openings.      And they didn't take it down.    So I,

23   myself -- All I d- -- All I did was look at the job

24   order number.      And I said, oh, let me see the

25   qualifications.      So I ran through the qualifications,
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    but I didn't see where it says until position filled

2    date.

3       Q.    Okay.   So --

4       A.    But that's where I made my own mistake, that

5    I shouldn't have submitted it for that -- that

6    position, because it had already been filled.

7                   When I called and I spoke to the

8    gentleman -- young gentleman there that -- who is now

9    at a -- at an elementary campus, he told me, "Oh, no,

10   Ms. Garcia.    You know that we had already submitted

11   the ones that they were going to interview."

12       Q.   That was between May --

13       A.   And June.   June 30th.

14       Q.   -- And June.    And then you said like July.

15   That's the -- the time period that you put in all

16   those?

17       A.   I continued through the whole month of June

18   and -- and July to submit my letter --

19       Q.   And that's when you put in all of those 16

20   applications, right?

21       A.   Uh-huh.   And all of them were all

22   qualifiable.

23       Q.   Okay.   And then -- Now you mention that you

24   met with Doctor Sauceda May 8th, 2001?

25       A.   Yes, sir.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.      Why did you meet with him if he wasn't

2    superintendent at the time?

3       A.      Because I had concerns, and I knew that the

4    election had just finished and I was going to wish

5    him luck with the -- with the new group of board

6    members.   And -- and I was hoping and -- and wishing

7    that this district would run appropriately, the way

8    it would be expected by taxpayers.

9       Q.      Yeah.

10                  But when you went to meet with him on

11   May 8th, 2001, what was he with the school district

12   that you went to go talk to him?

13      A.      He was -- he was a

14   consultant/superintendent.      He was already taking

15   over the district.      He was already working within the

16   district as a superintendent.      So --

17      Q.      He was --

18      A.      My understanding was that --

19      Q.      He was a quasi superintendent?

20      A.      I don't know, sir.

21      Q.      All right.

22                  (Mr. Burns and Mr. De Los Santos

23                  confer.)

24      Q.      (BY MR. ZAYAS)    How much money are you

25   making now?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.     I make $32,000.00, sir.   Salary.

2       Q.     $32,000.00.

3                    If you had been working and gotten

4    hired for the positions with BISD, how much would you

5    have been making?

6       A.     When -- Normally when you're rehired and

7    they take your level -- when you le- -- When any

8    individual leaves the district, what they do is that

9    they take their number of years of experience that

10   they've invested within the district, they kind of --

11   since they're paid by levels, they put you either at

12   midpoint or they start you at the low point.   So I

13   would be at midpoint of a level five, which would be

14   approximately -- I -- when I -- I would want to say

15   21, 22.

16      Q.     So you're making now about $11,000.00 more

17   than you would have been if you had been hired with

18   the district?

19      A.     That is correct, sir.

20      Q.     So you're in a better position today than --

21   than if you would have been hired by the district; is

22   that correct?

23      A.     No, sir.

24      Q.     Financially, you wouldn't have been better

25   making 32 versus 21?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       A.     No, sir.   Because I married, and my husband

2    brings the majority of the -- he's the one that does

3    the supporting.

4       Q.     No.   I'm just using regular old, everyday,

5    average, common sense math.    It's -- You're in a

6    better position making $32,000.00 versus $21,000.00;

7    is that correct?

8       A.     That is not correct, sir.   Because the time

9    that I'm losing without having to spend with my

10   children, when I could have had the opportunity to

11   work with the district and spend enough time with my

12   family and having Saturdays and Sundays off and not

13   working all these long hours, 60, 70 hours a week,

14   when at -- BISD could have offered me an 8:00-to-5:00

15   job, Monday through Friday, and the same holidays as

16   my husband, who teaches with the district, who has

17   invested 18 years of his life.

18      Q.     Okay.   Now, you're asking for five million

19   dollars in damages.    How did you arrive at that

20   number?

21      A.     I'm -- I will just let the jurors decide,

22   and that justice is made, and leave it to my

23   attorney.

24      Q.     Okay.   I'm trying to calculate economic

25   damages, as far as money -- hard damages, I guess for
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    any kind of economic loss that you have suffered.

2    How did you arrive at any of those numbers?

3       A.    Again I'm going to leave that to my attorney

4    and the -- the jurors, and --

5       Q.    Right now you can't tell the jurors --

6       A.    -- For justice.

7       Q.    -- How you have suffered any kind of

8    economic damages?

9       A.    I can say that I suffered economic damage

10   because I was not employed with Burlington Coat

11   Factory until the store opened, which was in

12   September.   I never gave up.

13      Q.    September what?

14      A.    September of 2001.

15      Q.    Okay.   So then you applied between May,

16   June, July, 2001, and you did not get hired until

17   September 2001 with Burlington; is that correct?

18      A.    That is correct, sir.

19      Q.    And May, June, July, August would be the

20   only four months that you would have lost

21   economically; is that correct?

22      A.    May -- May, June, July, August, September.

23   That's five months.   I got hired the 26th of

24   September.

25      Q.    May, June, July, August.   Four months.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    Well, we'll throw in -- we'll throw in September,

2    also, because you got in -- Is that five months

3    maximum economic damages that you're looking at?

4                 Economic damages.

5       A.    I -- I don't know.

6                 Yes?

7       Q.    Okay.   And some of those positions, were

8    they available right away, or they were going to be

9    available in August when the school s- -- when the

10   school district opened up again?

11      A.    They were available right away, sir, when

12   the positions are posted.   Normally what they do,

13   BISD post -- will post its positions for the public.

14   And then, what they start -- What they do is they

15   make -- they make sure that the recommendation

16   letters and the application and all the attachments

17   are together before they go to the administrator that

18   they're going to go to.   So what they do is that

19   they -- they submit them.   And then the administrator

20   starts calling as he or she starts receiving them in

21   their office, at their office, wherever the campus or

22   the office that they need to go to.

23      Q.    Out of those -- Well, I think we've

24   established 15 positions that you applied for.    How

25   many of those would have been available right away,
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    and how many were going to be available for the

2    beginning of the school year?     Do you know?

3       A.    They were all available right away because

4    what -- what they needed to do was hire these

5    person -- this -- the personnel so they could be

6    prepared for the new school year that they were going

7    to start.

8       Q.    Okay.      But out of those positions, you don't

9    know how many you did in May, how many you did in

10   June, and how many you did in July, and how many you

11   did in August; is that correct?

12      A.       In August, I don't -- No.   I don't remember

13   the actual -- how many --

14      Q.       Numbers of what --

15      A.       -- On which month.

16                   No.    I just remember that it was -- I

17   would go and look, and look, and --

18       Q.      Okay.   With regards to Mr. Cavazos, how do

19   you know Mr. Cavazos?

20      A.       I know him from the board meetings and from

21   the time that I -- I used to be an administrative

22   secretary with Mr. Tapia, because what we needed to

23   do was work together to make sure that all our

24   campuses were well insured and that our insurance

25   wouldn't lapse between -- and that every -- all the
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    vehicles or the maintenance vehicles were also

2    insured, that we made sure that everything was serial

3    numbered, and -- and that we didn't miss any of the

4    campuses.

5           Q.   Did you ever go out socially with

6    Mr. Cavazos?

7       A.       No, sir.   No, sir.

8       Q.       Okay.   So you never went out socially with

9    him prior to Mr. Dunn and Mr. Errisuriz talking to

10   him?

11       A.      I -- I visited with him.   Just -- I would

12   run into him like at social parties, you know,

13   parties, campaigning parties.     I had met him

14   through -- through Mr. Cavazos, who used to be an

15   administrator also at the warehouse -- Oscar Cavazos,

16   who I believe is related to Mr. Cavazos, Johnny

17   Cavazos.

18       Q.      But you -- you --

19       A.      So --

20       Q.      But you never socialized with him?

21       A.      Like for me to be able to --

22       Q.      Go out to dinner?

23       A.      Go -- Just lunch whenever he would like say,

24   you know, "My secretary and I are going to lunch.

25   Would you like to come with us?"
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1        Q.      You've had lunch with him before?

2        A.      Yes, sir.

3        Q.      When did you first have lunch with

4    Mr. Cavazos?

5        A.      Must have been when Sandra -- back in '97,

6    '98, back when I was in the district.

7        Q.      And how many times did you have lunch with

8    him?

9        A.      I can't recall.    I can't recall.

10                   Or either I'd stop by and visit with

11   Sandra at the office.

12          Q.   Did you have lunch with him once a year,

13   more or less?

14          A.   I'd say -- No.    I'd say -- Sandra, I would

15   say 8, 10, 12 -- Once, twice a month with Sandra, his

16   secretary.

17          Q.   Twice a month?

18          A.   Twice a month.

19          Q.   More or less?

20          A.   More or less.

21          Q.   Do you still have lunch with her?

22          A.   Well, I can't.    I'm -- I -- I -- I -- I fear

23   that she's going to end up losing her job, so I

24   don't.      We just say "hi" and "bye."

25          Q.   You --
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1        A.      I -- She calls me and --

2        Q.      When is the last time you had lunch with

3    her?

4        A.      I just visited with her on Saturday.    We saw

5    each other at the mall.

6        Q.      Okay.   How long did y'all visit?

7        A.      We were together for, like, about three and

8    a half hours.

9        Q.      Okay.   And prior to that, when was the last

10   time you visited with her?

11          A.   It was at her office.     I think like about --

12   Where are we?       We're in June.   Must have been like

13   May.

14                   What are we?    July?

15                   Like the first week of June.

16          Q.   Okay.   And -- and what -- You went to her

17   office?

18          A.   Yeah.   I went to her office just to visit

19   with her and see if she could have lunch with me.

20   Normally, I have lunch -- My lunch hours are very

21   spontaneous, depending on the amount of people that I

22   have in the -- in the department, so I called to see

23   if she had had lunch.      She said, "Come on over, see

24   if I can leave 'cause I'm also tied up."        So --

25          Q.   So she doesn't seem to worry about having
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    lunch with you.     If she didn't have lunch with you,

2    it had to do with -- with business?

3          A.   It -- She had to --

4          Q.   In other words, she didn't have the -- the

5    time?

6          A.   She probably didn't have time because I saw

7    her, that she was typing up some insurance binders.

8          Q.   So as a result of this alleged threat, it

9    hasn't stopped her from wanting to have lunch with

10   you, correct?

11         A.   Not -- not -- not as much as what we would

12   like to see each other, because we try to stay away

13   from each other so nobody will get labeled or pointed

14   at.

15         Q.   But you still have -- go have lunch with

16   her; is that correct?

17         A.   I -- I try.   I try to not get her in

18   trouble.

19         Q.   How about this J.J. Individual that you

20   mentioned earlier?    Who is J.J.?

21         A.   J.J. is a secretary at the main office.

22         Q.   What's his last name?

23         A.   I can't remember his last name.

24         Q.   Is it Zamora?

25         A.   No.   I don't know his last name.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1        Q.   Are you sure it's not Zamora?

2       A.    I've always known him for -- by J.J.

3       Q.    Did he used to be a -- a secretary at Stell?

4       A.    Yes.    That is J.J.

5       Q.    Is he the J.J. That works at -- at a vitamin

6    shop?

7       A.    That's -- Yes.

8       Q.    Or he used to work, or own it, or -- I don't

9    know what it --

10      A.    They own it.    His family owns it.

11      Q.    Do you still go to lunch with J.J.?

12      A.    No.    I haven't been to lunch with J.J. For

13   the past -- The last time I had lunch with him was

14   back in May.

15      Q.    Of?

16      A.    Of this year, 2001 (sic).

17      Q.    Okay.    We're in 2002, ma'am.

18      A.    I mean, 2002.

19                   Oh.   It's so -- it's so many years, so

20   many months.

21      Q.    I'm sorry.    I'm sorry.

22                   But you had lunch with him a couple

23   months ago?

24      A.    Yeah.    In May.

25      Q.    So he didn't stop having lunch with you
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    either?

2       A.     Not -- We used to see each other practically

3    every day, believe it or not.

4       Q.     I believe you.

5       A.     I used to call him and -- or him, and Lucy,

6    and -- and Norma, or Rosie, I mean just the crowd.

7       Q.     And how long -- Did you ever have lunch with

8    Kenneth Lieck?

9       A.     Yes.

10       Q.    How often would you have lunch with Kenneth

11   Lieck?

12       A.    When Lulu -- is one of his ex-coworkers at

13   purchasing -- would call me because they were going

14   to have a little gathering of a birthday party of one

15   of the girls, or if it was his birthday, or if it was

16   Lulu's birthday, or if it was a celebration of

17   whatever month.

18       Q.    Is it -- is it fair to say once in a blue

19   moon?

20       A.    No.    No.

21       Q.    Once a birthday?

22       A.    Well, sometimes you have two or three

23   birthdays in the department which are one back to

24   back, so you celebrate one one week and then the

25   other one the next week.     And --
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1        Q.      And have you ever gone out to dinner with

2    him?

3        A.      Dinner with him?

4        Q.      Right.

5        A.      No.    But I've known him for a long time.

6        Q.      I know.

7                       But have you ever gone to dinner with

8    him?

9           A.   No.

10          Q.   Or gone out socially to have a couple of

11   drinks with him or --

12          A.   Yes.

13          Q.   Okay.    How often have you done that?

14          A.   We tend to do it two -- two times a month.

15          Q.   And you still do that?

16          A.   Not lately.

17          Q.   Well, when is the last time you had a drink

18   with him socially?

19          A.   Let me see.    It was at Chili's.   And I can't

20   remember when.

21          Q.   Like within --

22          A.   It was --

23          Q.   -- The last couple of months?

24          A.   It was right before the election, right

25   before the May election, 2002.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1        Q.       Okay.    I was going to say.

2                       About two -- two months ago, more or

3    less?       Three months ago, maximum?

4        A.       No.   The last time I saw him was we had --

5    we -- we met before the election and then after the

6    election, two weeks later after the election, in

7    May.    So that was it.      June, July -- I haven't met

8    with him since this -- the -- in May.

9        Q.       Okay.    How about Hector Gonzalez?

10          A.    Hector Gonzalez, I used to have lunch with

11   him at least two, three times a week.

12          Q.    And how often -- When is the last time you

13   had lunch with Mr. Gonzalez?

14          A.    I remember dinner at -- at Chili's.

15          Q.    How long ago?

16          A.    It was May --

17          Q.    The same time with Lieck or a different

18   time?

19          A.    No.   A different time than Mr. Lieck.

20          Q.    Okay.    So he hasn't stopped having lunch or

21   dinner with you or whatever?

22          A.    Well, we're not -- we haven't had lunch like

23   we used to.

24          Q.    Right.    But -- but Chili's is pretty common

25   place here in Brownsville, right?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1        A.    Uh-huh.

2        Q.    I mean if you didn't want to be seen with

3    somebody, it wouldn't be a place that you'd go to,

4    right?

5        A.    That is correct.

6        Q.    Okay.   How about Mr. Tapia?

7        A.    The last time I met with him was --

8        Q.    Well, first of all, did you ever go out with

9    Mr. Tapia socially?

10       A.      What do you mean socially, as in friend?

11       Q.    Yeah.   Like have a dinner.    Yeah.   As a

12   friend.   Not -- I'm not implying any kind of affair

13   or anything.

14       A.    Okay.

15       Q.    I'm talking about -- let's say the year

16   2000. Did you and Mr. Tapia ever go out socially?

17       A.    Yes.    We call each other often.   We talk to

18   each over the phone when we can.     I know that when

19   he's busy, I can't talk to him.    I leave a message.

20   He'll call me back.    We'll touch bases, you know, how

21   are things, how's the construction coming, where do

22   we stand.    Basically everything we talk is related to

23   district and --

24       Q.    Does he still talk to you?

25       A.    Oh, yes.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.      So that hasn't stopped him talking to you;

2    is that correct?

3       A.      Not -- not recently we haven't talked.     The

4    last time I can remember that we talked must have

5    been last year, one of the board meetings that I

6    attended that he barely extended his hand and just by

7    the side said "hi" to me and that was it.    And that

8    was it.    Everything else has been via phone

9    because --

10       Q.     Have you had lunch with him recently?

11       A.     No.   We --

12       Q.     When is the last time you had lunch with

13   Mr. Tapia?

14       A.     It must have been 2001 when I -- during the

15   election of 2001, prior to the election.

16       Q.     Prior to the election of 2001?

17       A.     Uh-huh.

18       Q.     And after that, he hasn't had lunch with

19   you?

20       A.     No.   Because all last year was -- he would

21   call me.   He would ask me for help and that they were

22   certain things that needed to be taken care of and if

23   there was any way that I could go before the board

24   and speak on their behalf and -- but that was it.

25       Q.     How about the year 2001?   Did you ever have
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    lunch with him in the year 2000?

2       A.     In 2000?     No.   I don't recall.   Just barely

3    I think once that -- because I know his sister pretty

4    well.    I think it was a gathering, a family gathering

5    that they had had.     And then I don't -- I can't

6    recall that far back.

7       Q.     So in the year 2000 prior to Mr. Sauceda --

8    Doctor Sauceda being involved in this -- with the

9    school district, you never had lunch with him anyway;

10   is that correct?

11       A.      I had lunch, but it was only like when the

12   lunch would have like celebration for secretary's day

13   or boss's day that the girls would still call me and

14   I would show up.

15       Q.    But it wasn't common.      It wasn't like J.J.?

16       A.    No.

17                   Yes.   Because they normally get like

18   groups together and they all get together to have

19   lunch.

20       Q.      Well, I thought right now you said in the

21   year 2000 you can't really think of one -- maybe just

22   one time.

23       A.    I mean, I can't --

24       Q.    I'm a little confused.

25       A.    I can't remember.      I mean I eat with so many
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    people from the district that normally we either make

2    reservations and we sit together in a group.

3       Q.     And you still eat with a lot of people from

4    the district; is that correct?

5       A.     Not recently.    Not from the year 2001 to

6    2002.

7                    (Mr. De Los Santos exited the room.)

8       Q.     (BY MR. ZAYAS)     Haven't you been seen at

9    Vermillion eating with a whole bunch of people from

10   the district?

11      A.     With Norma, which she's the only one that

12   still remained to -- to try to overcome the situation

13   and she needed somebody to talk to, so I had to be

14   there for her.   So --

15      Q.     Would -- would you agree that Vermillion was

16   one of the places you wouldn't go in this town if you

17   were trying to hide from people and not be seen with

18   people?

19      A.     That is correct.

20      Q.     Vermillion is a pretty popular place; is

21   that correct.

22      A.     Vermillion?    I don't remember.   When was the

23   last time we had lunch at Vermillion?     How do you

24   know that?

25      Q.     I don't know.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1                       Have you been there?

2       A.       That's why I asked you.

3       Q.       Tell me.    Have you?

4       A.       That's why I'm questioning.      I can't

5    remember that.

6       Q.       Okay.

7       A.       I can't recall that.

8       Q.       Well, I mean, have you been to lunch with

9    J.J. At the Vermillion in the last year?

10       A.      With J.J., I haven't seen him.     He has

11   stayed away.       And I can say that at least for the

12   past -- The last time I saw him was on the election

13   day.    After that, I haven't heard from him or I've

14   called him said hello, visit with him on the phone.

15   We feel much safer just visiting over the phone,

16   saying hello, or how are you going, how are you

17   things.

18       Q.      Does he still work for the district?

19          A.   Yes.    He does, sir.

20                      MR. ZAYAS:   I pass the Witness.

21                      MR. BURNS:   I have just a --

22                      Let me just take the microphone back.

23                      MR. ZAYAS:   I'm sorry.


           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1                          EXAMINATION

2    BY MR. BURNS:

3       Q.    I'll try to be as brief as possible.     You

4    met with Doctor Sauceda on May the 8th of 2001 or

5    2002?

6       A.    2001.

7       Q.    Okay.   And did you indicate that your

8    purpose for going to meet with Doctor Sauceda was to

9    congratulate him and to express your support?

10      A.    I went to congratulate him.   And I went to

11   tell him that I believe in him, that he would make

12   sure that this district would run well, and that the

13   funds that were being spent from taxpayers would be

14   spent wisely, that we had no hidden agendas from

15   anybody, that taxpayers would be told what was the

16   money being -- where was the money being spent on.

17   Just numerous concerns that I had that I had brought

18   up to him and situations that I had documents --

19   certain documents that were dropped off up in Austin,

20   that I had in my possession to report to TEA.     Just

21   made him aware of those issues, that I would continue

22   to look into the district, make sure that the funding

23   was there, make sure that everybody was treated

24   equally, make sure that employee opportunities were

25   available to everybody, not just because so-and-so
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    was with so-and-so -- it would be the only reason

2    they would get hired.    And that was the reason why I

3    had gone to go visit and to clarify -- to make sure

4    that I would feel comfortable that nothing was going

5    to be held against me personally because I had ran

6    for school board.

7       Q.    Okay.    And did Doctor Sauceda tell you at

8    that -- at that meeting that --

9                     (Mr. De Los Santos entered the room.)

10      Q.       -- That as far as he was concerned

11   politics -- who you ran with didn't matter, that

12   politics didn't matter to him?

13      A.    I didn't recall that.      And -- However, he

14   mentioned to me that unfortunately that's the price I

15   would pay for being in the political arena, in my

16   conversation.    And he questioned as to how would two

17   board members feel if he was to bring me back to the

18   district.

19       Q.      Object to the responsiveness.

20                   The question was:   Did Doctor Sauceda

21   indicate to you that politics didn't matter to him?

22      A.    I don't recall that.

23      Q.    If that's on the tape, there's no question

24   that that's authentic, though; is that correct?

25      A.    Is that -- Is it?     I don't know.   I have not
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    heard the tape in awhile.

2        Q.     But you will -- If -- if there is a voice on

3    that tape saying that politics doesn't matter to me,

4    that's -- a male voice, that's Doctor Sauceda?

5       A.      But it wasn't pertaining to me.    It was

6    politics within the board members, within the group

7    that he was supporting.

8       Q.      I'm asking you specifically about Doctor

9    Sauceda.   Did he --

10      A.      I don't know what he meant.     I have not

11   heard the tape in awhile, sir.       I wouldn't know.

12      Q.      And you were going again to express your --

13   your support for Doctor Sauceda; is that fair to say?

14       A.     I went there and I expressed my support.

15                     MR. PRUNEDA:   Objection, form.

16      Q.      (BY MR. BURNS)   Were you sincere in those

17   beliefs?

18      A.      Yes.    I was.

19      Q.      Why did you take a tape recorder?

20      A.      Because I had wanted to make sure that what

21   his words -- what he was telling me were going to be

22   true as a leader to this district, as a

23   superintendent that he was going to do -- and that

24   our district would not be in a situation that we

25   would eventually regret as taxpayers.
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Q.     Did you tell Doctor Sauceda you were taping

2    this conversation?

3       A.     I do not recall, sir.

4       Q.     If he --

5       A.     I do not recall.

6       Q.       -- Says you did not tell him, do you have

7    any reason to dispute that statement?

8       A.     Excuse me?

9       Q.     If Doctor Sauceda testifies that you did not

10   tell him that you were tape-recording this

11   conversation, do you believe that testimony to be

12   untrue?

13      A.     I can't answer that, sir.

14      Q.     You have no reason to believe it's true or

15   not true?

16      A.     I don't know, sir.    I cannot answer that

17   question.

18      Q.     You can't answer it or you won't answer it?

19      A.     I cannot answer it at this time, sir.

20      Q.     Why is that?

21      A.     I just --

22      Q.     Is it because you don't recall?

23      A.     I just -- It's been awhile.    I haven't heard

24   that tape.    And I cannot answer something that I have

25   not heard in awhile.     I mean, here we are talking
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1    about 2000 --

2          Q.   Would you like to take time to listen to the

3    tape?

4          A.   No, sir.   Not at this time -- unless my

5    attorney wishes to review it.

6                    MR. BURNS:     Mr. Pruneda, would you like

7    to review the tape?

8                    MR. PRUNEDA:     (Nods head negatively.)

9          Q.   (BY MR. BURNS)    When -- Was this meeting

10   with Doctor Sauceda immediately after the board

11   meeting -- excuse me -- after the board elections?

12         A.   The election was on the 6th, 2000.     What is

13   it?   2001?   We go back to another year.    2001.   And I

14   went on May the 8th, 2001.

15         Q.   And you testified earlier that you were not

16   in any way upset by the -- by the outcome of the

17   election?

18         A.   No, sir.

19         Q.   Okay.   You weren't trying to gather evidence

20   for a lawsuit with this tape-recorder?

21         A.   No, sir.   No, sir.

22         Q.   And again can you --

23         A.   I was --

24         Q.    -- Refresh my memory as to why you did have

25   a tape-recorder?
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1                 MR. PRUNEDA:     Objection, form.

2       A.    The reason why is because I wanted -- I

3    cannot answer that right now.

4                 MR. BURNS:      Okay.   I don't have any

5    further questions.

6                 MR. ZAYAS:      No further questions.

7                   (Deposition concluded.)

8                     *   *   *   *   *   *

















           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1                    CHANGES AND SIGNATURE
     RE: NO. 2002-01-153-E, NORMA ORTIZ VS. BISD, ET AL
2    PAGE   LINE          CHANGE           REASON
3    ____________________________________________________
4    ____________________________________________________
5    ____________________________________________________
6    ____________________________________________________
7    ____________________________________________________
8    ____________________________________________________
9    ____________________________________________________
10   ____________________________________________________
11   ____________________________________________________
                   I, CATALINA GARCIA, have read the
12   foregoing deposition and hereby affix my signature
     that same is true and correct, except as noted above.
13                      _____________________________
                        CATALINA GARCIA


     COUNTY OF ________ )
                   BEFORE me, ____________________, on
18   this day personally appeared CATALINA GARCIA, known
     to me (or proved to me under oath or through
19   ________________________) (description of identity
     card or other document) to be the person whose name
20   is subscribed to the foregoing instrument and
     acknowledged to me that they executed the same for
21   the purposes and consideration therein expressed.
                   Given under my hand and seal of office
22   this ______ day of ____________________, 2002.


25                        Notary Public in and for
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1                        NO. 2002-01-153-E

         Plaintiff(s),    )
3                         )
     VS.                  ) OF
4                         )
     BROWNSVILLE          )
     DISTRICT, ET AL,     )
6        Defendant(s).    ) CAMERON   COUNTY,   TEXAS

7    ------------------------------------------------
                    REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION
                         JULY 22, 2002
9    ------------------------------------------------

10         I, PATRICIA PHELPS, Certified Shorthand Reporter

11   in and for the State of Texas, hereby certify to the

12   following:

13         That the witness, CATALINA GARCIA, was duly sworn

14   by the officer and that the transcript of the oral

15   deposition is a true record of the testimony given by

16   the witness;

17         That the deposition transcript was submitted on

18   __________________, 2002, to the witness or to the

19   attorney for the witness for examination, signature

20   and return to me by ___________________, 2002;

21         That the amount of time used by each party at the

22   deposition is as follows:

23         Daniel Burns- 2 Hours, 9 Minutes

24         Joe De Los Santos- 0 Minutes

25         Richard Zayas- 56 Minutes
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

1       Michael Pruneda- 0 Minutes

2       That pursuant to information given to the

3    deposition officer at the time said testimony was

4    taken, the following includes counsel for all parties

5    of record:

6       Michael Pruneda, Attorney for Plaintiff(s);

7       Daniel Burns and Joe De Los Santos, Attorneys for

8    Defendant(s) Brownsville ISD;

9       Richard Zayas, Attorneys for Defendant(s) Marilyn

10   Del Bosque Gilbert.    I further certify that I am

11   neither counsel for,

12   related to, nor employed by any of the parties or

13   attorneys in the action in which this proceeding was

14   taken, and further that I am not financially or

15   otherwise interested in the outcome of the action.

16      Further certification requirements pursuant to

17   Rule 203 of TRCP will be certified to after they have

18   occurred.

19      Certified to by me this ________ day of

20   ______________________, 2002.


22                ____________________________
                  PATRICIA PHELPS, Texas CSR 5159
23                Expiration Date: 12/31/02
                  Bryant & Stingley, Inc.
24                2010 East Harrison
                  Harlingen, Texas 78550
25                (956) 428-0755
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen        Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020



3       The original deposition was/was not returned to

4    the deposition officer on __________________________;

5       If returned, the attached Changes and Signature

6    page contains any changes and the reasons therefor;

7       If returned, the original deposition was

8    delivered to __________________________, Custodial

9    Attorney;

10      That $____________ is the deposition officer's

11   charges to the Defendant, BISD, for preparing the

12   original deposition transcript and any copies of

13   exhibits;

14      That the deposition was delivered in accordance

15   with Rule 203.3, and that a copy of this certificate

16   was served on all parties shown herein on and filed

17   with the Clerk.

18      Certified to by me this _______ day of

19   ______________________, 2002.


22                PATRICIA PHELPS, Texas CSR 5159
                  Expiration Date: 12/31/02
23                Bryant & Stingley, Inc.
                  2010 East Harrison
24                Harlingen, Texas 78550
                  (956) 428-0755
           BRYANT & STINGLEY, INC.
   McAllen        Harlingen       Brownsville
(956)618-2366   (956)428-0755    (956)542-1020

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