firemanagement fmp scoping marin

BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR NATIONAL PARK SERVICE GOLDEN GATE NATIONAL RECREATION AREA FIRE MANAGEMENT PLAN PUBLIC SCOPING MEETING United States Army Corps of Engineers San Francisco Bay Model Visitor's Center 2100 Bridgeway Sausalito, California Tuesday, September 24, 2003 REPORTER: JAMES W. HIGGINS, CVR 2 GOLDEN GATE NATIONAL RECREATION AREA - - - FIRE MANAGEMENT PLAN - - PUBLIC SCOPING MEETING - - TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 24, 2003 - - United States Army Corps of Engineers San Francisco Bay Model Visitor's Center 2100 Bridgeway, Sausalito, California The meeting was convened, pursuant to Notice, at 7:00 p.m., Mai-Liis Bartling, Acting Superintendent, presiding. For the Golden Gate National Recreation Area: Alex Naar, Fire Management Officer Carolyn Feierabend, Moderator Wendy Poinsot, Integrated Resources Program Manager Paul McLaughlin, Program Manager, Natural Resources Jordan Reeser, Field Management Specialist Sue Fritzke, Supervising Vegetation Ecologist Barbara Judy Paul Scolari, Historian Alana Donahue Rudy Evenson, Office of Public Affairs 3 C O N T E N T S PAGE Call to Order 5 OPENING COMMENTS Mai-Liis Bartling, Acting Superintendent 5 Carrie Feierabend, Moderator GGNRA FIRE MANAGEMENT PLAN Wendy Poinsot, Integrated Resources Program Director Paul McLaughlin, Natural Resources Alex Naar, Fire Management Officer 7 6 15, 26 20, 23 Jordan Reeser, Field Management Specialist 21 Paul Scolari, Historian, PUBLIC COMMENT STATEMENT OF: Margaret Heller Maria Defries Jay Van De Beek Adjournment 30 36 40, 44 44 27 30 4 P R O C E E D I N G S 7:15 P.M. ACTING SUPERINTENDENT BARTLING: evening. Good for Welcome to our scoping meeting tonight, the Fire Management Plan, for the Golden Gate National Recreation Area. Our purpose tonight is to introduce you the Fire Management Plan, what it is, why we need to to you have do it, and get your input on the issues, and give an opportunity to meet with our staff who expertise in a variety of different areas related to the Fire Management Plan. Before we get started, I want to point staff and introduce you to them, so that you can our ask your questions and engage in discussion with them. We Donahue, Office. We have, from our Natural Resources have Alex Naar, Chris Blalock, Alana and Jordan Reeser, from our Fire Management Division, Sue Friztke and Paul McLaughlin. From our Cultural Resources Staff, we Barbara Judy and Paul Scolari. Providing Public Affairs support to us, have Rudy Evenson. We have Wendy Poinsot, we for have environmental compliance. 5 Lastly, Feierabend, our facilitator tonight is Carrie how and she is going to tell you exactly the meeting is going to proceed and take if from here. MS. FEIERABEND: Mai-Liis. My once again, not on in name is Carrie, and I welcome you for coming out this evening. I all, hope is Greet. Thank you, you're going order regretting missing the debate, I know -- I is wish which we this evening. dinner could of here, but this debate-free gubernatorial issues. We welcome you this evening. It is a small in group, and it's always the group psychology to sit the back. So, if anyone wants to move forward, to there's hearing sharing what lots of seats here. from you tonight. And we look This is forward really about Plan, get information about the Fire Management is it, where is it going to go, how can you This is one of the first steps for this evening. This is to provide involved. involved comments, so that getting us your your thoughts, your concerns, your we can incorporate those into the issues, and plan address those issues and concerns. The way we're going to run the evening think tonight, because we're sort of a small group, I 6 what we're going by to do -- there's the have going Fire to be a presentation Plan. Then, park staff on going to Management briefly have maps we're staff describe the materials that are at each of -- we five work stations this evening. There's some and we may even take a break so you can go and look at the materials. your input. I want to stress that there are many ways One Then we will solicit your comments and that you can provide feedback to us this evening. way is by providing some verbal comments this evening. Another markers way so is that to provide -- we you can write have posted some down some comments that have is immediately, are on the especially around some of the maps walls this evening. Or, if you questions, this? We you can put a postit and say: What Who owns it? What are you going to do with it? as want to get those kinds of detailed questions, well as big ideas, from you. The other way is to fill in a questionnaire that about we have. You can take it home with you, think with these questions. You can either leave it us tonight, or you can take it home, write an essay on each one of the questions and mail it on in, or you visit our web site and send in comments by e-mail. 7 So there are many ways that you can share your input and thoughts, not only this evening, but up until December fifth, which is the close of scoping. So introduce to get things started, I'd like to Wendy Poinsot, who is going to run through what is a Fire Management Plan and what is the process all about. Wendy. WHAT IS A FIRE MANAGEMENT PLAN? WENDY POINSOT, INTEGRATED RESOURCES PROGRAM MANAGER MS. POINSOT: requirement have A Fire Management Plan is States a for all parks in the United that the the that of burnable vegetation. And right now, across in country, process does Fire Management Plans are somewhere of development for every national park have a vegetation risk. So we are just one many hundreds of Fire Management Plans that are moving forward. Fire Management Plans are long-term strategies that guide the actions related to all kinds of wild fire activities in a park. to And we're directed fire consider all the different types of wildland So we are going to be fire, management actions. suppression, discussing fuel prescribed mechanical 8 reduction and the after effects of fire restoration, components monitoring, rehabilitation. These are all that go into building a Fire Management Plan. The main, our main, priority in designing a new Fire Management Plan is the protection of keep firefighters and the public. this always as our highest We are mandated to priority. Our second priority is to protect and improve park resources. So life and property is our first priority; and, as an adjunct priority, we want to use to the degree that we can to all our and actions enhance protect park resources. There's several reasons why each park has to have a Fire Management Plan. And, as one our staff So we have national to said: We have to, but also we want to. have a Fire Management Plan. It's fire 1995 to our policy. and have It's in several policies, developed in 1998, that every land management entity needs a Fire Management Plan. is just one of all So we're just -- agency land-management agencies putting these together across the country. We Management also need to. Our current Fire Plan is from 1993; and, so, it's 10-years old. We have had so much information come to us in the last ten years, and we have had so much experience in 9 the federal realm in dealing with fire suppression need to Our along bring plan, the wildland-urban interface, that we our when 1993 plan up to we're current standards. have done with it, will greater the have detail than our 1993 plan, as far as location and importance clear and sensitivity of resources. We will also be We'll objectives. developing implementing guidelines, protocols and standards for the fire management actions. Our achieve Fire Management Plan must help us our the park objectives. This is another one of directives from our agency head, the Director of National Park Service. action So, for every fire management to an that goes forward, it must contribute sustainability. And we also must ecological protect and maintain and enhance all park resources. Natural resource protection. An example of that, in achieving park resources, could be -- perhaps there's an area of sensitive habitat, right now, supports a rare butterfly. encroached And that habitat is that being the upon by shrubs that are crowding out plants that the butterfly needs. been the Because there hasn't grasslands on and are a fire in there in so long, the forage that the butterfly depends disappearing and being shaded out. So, perhaps, 10 prescribed fire in this area could enhance that natural resource. Cultural resource protection. of that would be, would maybe be And example what first cases, recreating they were of historic bulit bunkers looked like when to protect the coastline. has view If grown up which had they been In a lot would vegetation anybody's bunkers. landscape, have obscured in the stationed a true we want to develop cultural members to was maybe we'd have to remove certain of the vegetation that has grown up there in order give the real feeling of what being at the bunker like. We protection. as trails also want to concentrate on visitor If there's fire roads that are being used that are lined with thick density, thick densities of broom, that won't make a safe route in case of fire. evacuation our We want to make sure that visitors have a safe means to get out of the park. We're Property also concerned about our neighbors. the have make make lower protection is very important both along of the park and within park. We to boundaries sensitive sure sure, historic structures that we want are not at-risk for fire. to We also want to can the degree that we can, that we 11 risk of fire spreading from inside the park into the adjacent residential communities. Because we're an urban park, we have a fire hazard in the on many miles of our wildland-urban three counties where Golden Gate interface National Recreation Area is sited. shows know, both Fire I just have a map here that as you the current county, Marin County; but, Golden Gate National Recreation Area has in San Francisco and San Mateo Counties. lands This Management Plan will address all lands by the National Park Service So that's directly administered our throughout 35,000 jurisdiction. approximately acres of land. lands plan I say "approximately," because there's this that may come to us during the process of that would be included in planning actions. Those lands are in San Mateo County. A main focus of the revised National Policy that came out in 1998 was In an emphasis on the that wildland-urban interface Homestead Valley, areas. measure interface. Marin County, Tam includes Valley, your communities of Muir Beach, Stinson all Valley, Mill Beach, Marin Though that's it's City. there These are could be, our interface an the exact park perhaps, given on the distance from really lands that have a boundary, contiguous 12 open space from the park that put residential areas at a potential risk of fire spread. policy to concentrate We're directed by federal our fire management planning actions on this interface area, where we can, as well as to enhance resources within the park itself. We also have a long history of catastrophic fire in in the Bay Area, and those of you who have been very in the area for, you know, the last decade, are with. familiar state spread The Inverness Fire, which started Reyes in park lands adjacent to Point 1995, homes quickly over five days and destroyed 45 in the Inverness and Inverness Park area, and damaged another 12. park. It burned approximately one-third of the The Oakland Hills Fire, where most of you have either read about or experienced, with 3,000-plus homes destroyed and unfortunate fatalities. There's another historic fire in Mill Valley, which burned almost, nearly, the downtown area in 1929. A dramatic fire, with 117 homes destroyed. This process, to develop a Fire Management the Plan, is conducted through the Policy NEPA process, So we National develop Environmental the plan Act. we don't the first. First, develop 13 environmental policy that analyzes plan That's our the stage we're at now. We're alternatives. beginning We've park with just planning process at this scoping meeting. some similar sessions internally with going to conduct other So we'll be sessions having conducted staff. other We're fire agencies. fire special three meetings with agencies throughout the counties to hear their concerns, just as we want to hear from the public. So construct our the first step we're going to do is environmental document. From to that, we'll look at several types of strategies to develop a Fire Management Plan. in an We expect to put this Statement, together would those Environmental Impact which evaluate the potential environmental effects of alternatives, we hope by July of next year. The public review period for the that run, take probably, for two to three months. Then, will we'll our then an comments received from the public, look at document, put out see if we need to make revisions, and a final plan in which we select alternative. we've From out that, once that is determined, it, we've our by selected our plan, we've refined developed mitigation, guidelines, our protocols, have everything in place, it's signed 14 our Regional Director, we will then release an Fire Management Plan that will cover five actual of years actions. So this first process is to develop a programmatic plan that is long range, perhaps from 10 to 20 years. From that, we're lasting to going develop a shorter-range, actual implementation plan. If those implementation plans bring up issues that are not have covered their in the programmatic plan, own review process. all But then we they'll plan to the incorporate process. community meeting throughout Any further NEPA program would be available to the public, as well, and have a similar process this one. At this point, I'd like to hand over as the Power Point to Paul, and he's going to go through what we've drafted, the goals for the Fire Management Plan, among park staff. This is something that is posted at These are draft goals, goals us to and -any be one of our stations here. we'd he's like going for you, as well, to review our to read them to you -- and might on them. give comments you Because we want able to reflect your wishes, as well as we can. So, thanks a lot, and Paul -// 15 FIRE MANAGEMENT PLAN GOALS PAUL MC LAUGHLIN, MANAGER, NATURAL RESOURCES MR. MC LAUGHLIN: draft goals. on has We'll briefly go over the that, and back over there You were probably given a handout one side, says the wildland fire management, the all the four questions on it; then, on side, it actually has these goals. them So, if we go detail, and you want to refer to them in they are in writing for you. The first goal is to ensure firefighter and public safety. That's our highest priority, and clearly our top goal. The second is to reduce wildland fire risk. Now it's interesting, with both natural and cultural resources, and this goal 3, we use fire management, resources. whenever appropriate, to sustain So there's the positive natural tthe And, the So side, beneficial side, of fire and natural resources. also, we want to protect natural resources of fire and fire management from effects activities. it's sort of a balancing of those two actions. As want a parallel in cultural resources, we and of to preserve historic structures, landscapes resources from the adverse effects archeological 16 fire and fire management activities. time, we have opportunities restore to And, at the same use fire to rehabilitate and cultural resources. particularly cultural landscapes. As continually management management this part of our program, we want and to fire refine our knowledge of so we're fire using processes, to adaptive So and continually improve our program. research goal reflects that sense of using monitoring to improve our fire management program. We also want to continue to develop and maintain our staff expertise in fire management. We also want to make a point of integrating our fire management So that it's program into all the all park the activities. activities activities, the fire an integral part of we take on in the park, and other from their and integrate the knowledge we gain program and enhancing management program. Part tonight. Part of of -- it's great to our goal is to have foster you here informed activity. and public participation in the fire management Particularly being able having you come to these meetings and to go out in the community dialogue with all of you is a very important part of that. 17 Finally, to foster partnerships and and contribute to firefighting efforts, bothe locally nationally. So those are our goals. Carrie, would you like to over from here. MS. FEIERABEND: That's Thank you. Fire date we a brief overview of what is a Management Plan and the work that's been done to in support of this Fire is a Management that Plan. has As -- mentioned, there handout it's double-sided. of them. as If you didn't get one, we have plenty well They're on both of the side tables, as And they have listed on them the outside. goals; that but, on the other side, are four key questions we'd like to pose to you this evening. Again, you're free to take them home and consider them. The first one being: What would you like to see the Fire Management Plan accomplish? Are there think specific goals, specific alternatives, that you need to be studied. Are you there specific topics or issues that think should be addressed in the Fire If you can be as specific as Management that those Plan? really issues. possible, helps us figure out how to best address So, if you know of a particular area that you 18 think we should focus in on, tell us about it. environmental be topic that you from a think Or a specific needs really to evaluated fire management perspective, please let us know. Also, future if you think about the future a and fire conditions, the park in 20 years, and management program, are there specific desired results that you'd like to see? those Do you have some ideas on how How could know fire what results could be accomplished? be implemented? management We'd like to your thoughts are on that issue. Then, lastly, are there other concerns that we haven't addressed this evening, haven't talked about or brought up, that you think need to be looked at in the Fire Management Plan. So you. But You those are some prompter questions hear for may have others that we'll tonight. thoughts we want to start getting your input and and ideas on this subject. Now, we have set up, here in the room, we have five work stations. And I think what we're going to do is have staff kind of position themselves at the work stations. here. We were going to have folks rotate have are around I think what we're going to do is staff give a brief overview of the materials that 19 located going at each of this work stations. Then we're allow to want to hear from you, and then we'll time to circulate and for to provide specific comments and questions, with flip charts and markers, and stuff, at each one of the work stations. The hit No. 6 at five stations that we have, the end, one is focused and on I'll fire may a management options and operations. Okay. A lot of you be wondering: big title. Well, fire management, that's What do What's really behind that? you actually do to manage fire? Well, we can learn a little bit about experiences and talk about future operations past and management options. There's So we'll hear about that. also something, a term, contemporary term, called the Wildland-Urban Interface that we're going to lean a little more about, which this park really displays. Then, we touched upon, a little bit already, about the natural resources and the resources, and their interplay with fire. Lastly, we have the Fire cultural Management Plan Then, chart that Goals, which have been presented this evening. as you're leaving this evening, we have a outside in case there are any parting comments 20 you would like to leave us this evening on topic areas that we haven't touched upon. So, lights, at this point, why don't we raise Why the get this up, and Alex and Jordan. don't you come up. Why don't you talk about fire management options and operations and WUI. FIRE MANAGEMENT OPTIONS AND OPERATIONS ALEX NAAR, FIRE MANAGEMENT OFFICER JORDAN REESER, FIELD MANAGEMENT SPECIALIST MR. NAAR: One thing to think about, in terms of fire operations -- I should introduce myself. I'm Alex Naar, the Fire Management Officer for GGNRA. MR. RESSER: field for I'm Jordan Reeser, and I'm the assigned So here I'm management specialist, recently Gate, as well as Point Golden Reyes. actually a shared position working on the field as management programs, prescribed fires, as well mechanical, in both parks. MR. NAAR: suppression. do we, So So I'm a shared resource. thing to look at is one If a fire starts, what do you, or want to do? What what of collectively, kind response do we want to have to a wildland fire? Do let do we want to put it out? Do we want to how fire it burn in certain areas? we put it out? If we put it out, Do we use Do we use water? 21 retardant chemicals? Are there areas that might be For sensitive from a natural resource end of things? instance: drainage, Maybe in Muir Woods, or the Redwood where chemicals, fire retardant Creek chemicals, might not be appropriate. Do we want to use heavy equipment? Some of the fires that happened this summer across the country heavy equipment, bulldozers, were used to put in lines. lines. Not just small fire lines, but large fire fire Is that what we want to see happen at Golden Gate? Jordan, do you want to talk about sort of the proactive end of fire, the pre -MR. REESER: and dangers, once Indeed. There's started. suppression The other a fire has option -- or not another option, but are for our kind of preplanning activities. opportunities fuel management There's basically two types of those: is the mechanical fuels reduction method; and Both One the of other is through the use of prescribed fire. those are studied extensively prior to on the ground. either types implementation The main areas that are designated for fuel the types of those projects are based on the that are on the ground, and, primarily, 22 adjacent resources to them. Prescribed fire doesn't necessarily have place close to some communities, based on a smoke the issues, potential for escape. Whereas, some of areas where we're doing mechanical treatments -- which is going presently in both parks, especially here in Golden Gate, pretty actively -- that those areas a tendency to be a lot closer to people's and what not. We have much more control over the We can selectively choose over a have residences, fuels them, time that we're removing. as we go, and selectively manage them frame, to obtain those, our predetermined objective, as far as preimposed fuel load levels -- how much fuel is on the ground -to prevent, basically a preventative measure from fire. Once it reaches that, quote, unquote, fuel rate, we'll hopefully reduce intensity and allow us greater containment the and confinement opportunities to put it out. MR. NAAR: I just wanted to add or expand on the two options that Jordan presented: or using prescribed fire, controlled mechanical There to let less fire. might do be a couple of other options. The sort of no-action One would be option, to nothing. things do what they will do. The other would be 23 heavy mechanical, what we might call manual, smaller removing not statured shrubs, such as broom, by hand, using power tools. Then, the sort of fourth or fifth one would also be chemical treatment of vegetation. agencies in California, in our area, use along highways, power lines. Which other to control a to vegetation whole There's people range of options, and I'd just like consider all those. Do we want to take -- sorry, Jordan? was my question: this point? MS. FEIERABEND: and then run We were going to go ahead and we That at Do we take questions or comments through each one of the presentations, So, if take comments at the end of this. could hold your comments or questions just right now, let's finish with each of these presentations and then we'll come back to take those on. WILDLAND-URBAN INTERFACE MR. NAAR: Okay. So, Wendy, I think, We, touched on what Wildland-Urban Interface Fire is. in the business, call it WUI (sounds like woo-ee), the three-letter meets might acronym. It's the area where wildland It the not-wildland. Where it meets a building. of be in the park, or it might be outside 24 park. In interface Service actually boundary our park, we have roughly 50 our property, the miles of where National Park We our or boundary, abuts human-made developments. don't have a WUI. It's essentially wherever that might be, in Stinson Beach It's everywhere. I Muir Beach, or Tam Valley. most think with people in this room are, perhaps, familiar portions of our boundary. So interface, the one thing that's going on in the in terms of fire, is that we have special wildland it's on funding to do projects to reduce the risk of fire in the interface zone. to be used And that money, and designed on park lands, also non-Park Service lands. So happening there's several projects and that at are right now at Point Reyes, Golden Gate, or in Marin, rather -- I should say in and middle and west Marin -- that are not southern on park and property. conceived Southern They were projects that were generated and developed Fire by other agencies, Inverness local Fire Marin District, Department, Muir Beach Fire Department. Each of these and communities and agencies came to the Park Service said: Hey! We want to apply for funding to do these 25 wildland fire projects. So there's Park Service money that actually comes through our park and is used on non-Park Service land to deal with the threat of wildland fire in the interface. We're WUI with one two. along trying, as we move forward with the Program, to combine the local and county our efforts so that, when we do efforts it's than now, projects, plus one might equal three, if there's more And that is clear in Southern Marin right Highway 1 in Tan Valley, where we're working actually with Southern Marin Fire and have a project, two projects, that are on Park Service and on non-Park Service land. But they're right next to each other. Very good. Thank you. been we talking this MS. FEIERABEND: I about should point, since we've a microphone, that referencing are evening recording the presentations and the comments and the questions that you have so that we can have an accurate record of the discussion this evening. one it format for us to collect the information and in your words. In addition, we can receive it It's get in writing, as we described earlier. I'd going like to ask Paul -- and Sue, are you of to join in on this? -- to give an overview 26 the natural resources perspective on fire management. NATURAL RESOURCES PAUL MC LAUGHLIN, PROGRAM MANAGER, NATURAL RESOURCES MR. MC LAUGHLIN: that we can get to your We'll keep this brief comments. We're so really interested in those tonight. My Natural and ... MS. FRITZKE: I'm Sue Fritzke, and I'm the name is Paul McLaughlin. I'm the the park, Resource Program Manager here in Supervisory Vegetation Ecologist. So I'm in charge of the Vegetation Management Program for the entire park. MR. MC LAUGHLIN: MS. FRITZKE: Daunting task. and I'm new. Just got Yes, here about two months ago, so still learning. MR. MC LAUGHLIN: wanted to So the main thing I remind you of was the broad range that's constituted under the term "natural resources." Now those, of course, are biological resources, things you may think of as vegetation, or wildlife. They can such also include wetland -as wetlands. plants bearing ecological communities, And they also include in special Often, they have a here. So status large we're and animal species. on our management actions 27 interested in your particular comments in that regard. Natural resources also include the physical environment, quality, lighting including watersheds, soil, of water night air quality, and even the quality and noise, and Fire obviously fire management on all of activities. can have an influence those factors, both potentially beneficial or adverse. So we would really welcome your comments on things need to be thinking about, desired future and we conditions, fire considerations we should make in making our management plan. Anything else, Sue? MS. FRITZKE: That's it. Excellent. Great. Thank you. Paul Scolari will MR. MC LAUGHLIN: MS. FEIERABEND: Last, but not least, speak to us about the cultural resources perspective. CULTURAL RESOURCES PAUL SCOLARI, HISTORIAN MR. SCOLARI: Good Scolari. Thank you, Carrie. My name is Paul evening, everybody. I'm an historian, and I am the park's Native American Liaison, as well. What I wanted to say tonight about cultural resources is, first of all, to explain what we mean 28 when we say "cultural resources," especially in the context of the Fire Management Plan. If look at it. cultural you look at -- well, you don't need to for In our goal, we refer to -- our goal resources, we refer to historic structures. That's a very straightforward category, which includes historic buildings of various types. We park, we've refer to historic landscapes. identified 49, initially 49, In the historic ranches, a landscapes. roads, great These include military posts, trails, a great variety of landscapes, with variety of features that make up those landscapes. Then, finally, archeological resources, or which are deposits that are either on the surface, below the surface, that contain the remains of from the past. Sometimes, Native human activity human American as activities; sometimes from what we refer to "the historic period." So when data very where data those are the -- that's what Our we mean we talk about cultural resources. existing We We have know poor our about these resources varies greatly. good data about historic buildings. they are and what they are. on our historic We have very and on landscapes 29 archeological as we sites. So it will be incumbent on Fire us, go forward and implement the Management make up Plan, to identify whether the features that these landscapes are the archeological sites, so we can then meet our goal of protecting them. Then, cultural most has are finally, probably, in terms that of the resources and the Fire Management Plan, vital, interesting issue, I think to everybody, There is as to with this idea of cultural landscapes. -- a major component of an historic landscape vegetation. And what happens over years, planted you all probably know, is vegetation spreads. spreads, it does two things: No. 1, it diminishes the When it qualities that made that landscape important historically, because it expands beyond where it was; and No. encroaches on 2, it can become a fire hazard. where It you buildings, and it spreads don't want it. So, in addressing cultural landscapes, or historic landscapes. The Fire Management Plan has the from fire potential of improving those cultural landscapes an historic perspective, and also improving safety in the park and in the Bay Area. Thank you. 30 MS. FEIERABEND: Thank you, Paul. from and a to At this point, now, we'd like to hear you. then And we'll I think we'll stay in a large group, have rotating around, so you can take closer look at this maps. They are a little hard read from a distance. As reporter I mentioned, we do have the court you up to here. So, when you do speak, we'd like to state your name and I think we need you to come close to this microphone so that we can be sure record your comments and questions. PUBLIC COMMENT STATEMENT OF MARGARET HELLER MS. HELLER: My name is Margaret Heller, and I live in Tam Valley. time. in And I hike up there all the And I would like to invite all of you, who work to come up and talk to us, who are out offices, hiking, actually. Because we're here tonight, many of us, not liking to go to meetings at night after work. You and I was know, I'm listening to that this would the be historian a really thinking wonderful thing, that, if you visited the areas of the park where people are and talk to them about, you long know, what they're history is with the park, how 31 they've it, been hiking there, and what they know about about besides what they think are their concerns fire safety. I'm sorry that there are not more people bad but home from my neighborhood here tonight. about it because I think that I feel really do care, they they're listening to the debate, or they're just because it's nice to be home at night. I have some questions for you. fires and how do they start? people? how Who starts Is it who, by Is it lightening? Who are -- are you doing any studies on -- if we're talking about these preventing clearing vegetation, are we talking about preventing if by identifying why fires start? there is any statistics on that? I And I'm wondering have about six questions. If you could provide a short response ... MR. NAAR: Management we're Plan Certainly, in the the Fire areas the planning process, one of And looking at is the fire history. just quick answer: Typically, before this summer, we had the many fewer than two lightening strikes in Marin to hit ground. This summer was an anomaly. There were lightening strikes that hit in Marin, and elsewhere, and started fires. 32 So some of the concerns that I think that Wendy talked about, just to reiterate, were fires, are fires, will that may originate outside of the park that park come onto park land, and then move through and either threaten more park property, actual private physical structures, or natural resources, or property off park property. MS. HELLER: Is it mostly people, though, that are starting fires? MR. NAAR: Correct. Well, the reason why I'm MS. HELLER: asking that has to do with the fact that, sometimes, I feel like, as a hiker up there, I'm discouraged not by the fire safety department, but from other dog dope hiking departments of the GGNRA, partially because I'm a owner. I've come upon kids up there smoking behind rocks, but I'm in an illegal place with my dog, and they're doing an illegal thing. But because I'm there, I stop them. I kind of would like to ask you to identify, you know, who are the people that might make the park safer? Not just, you know, who are the You is people that are going to make it more dangerous? know, having a lot of kids out there unsupervised definitely going to make it dangerous. I think we all 33 probably agree on that, if we've had children. we be had more people out there out there, But if to that are encouraged safer and that would make it could that's identify and help out in prevention. I think as important as clearing brush out from underneath the eucalyptus trees. That's why I asked that question. I want to know how bad is the problem here? I mean, I've been here for 21 years, and I hear rumors that Mt. Tam is a fuse and it's about to go, and all over. Is that -- do you believe that that's it's the case? How dangerous is it out here? MR. NAAR: Not having studied every inch of with other land-management certainly fire fire you the Mt. Tam, but I do work agencies, and most of the fire departments, in Southern Marin, There's and with the county among department. professionals will -is a general feeling that vegetation fuel buildup -- if at a dangerous point throughout certainly area. this Southern Marin, and Mill Valley-Tam Valley at And if the conditions are right, typically time of the year, in the fall, when we get east or northeast dry, hot winds -- we've had a few that fire in weekends recently that have been, have exhibited kind of fire weather, that that's when, if a starts, it's going to be difficult to contain it 34 short order. The in 1991, Vision Fire in 1995, the Oakland exactly our that: Fire were examples of combined with built-up dry, vegetation, late fall, northeast or easterly winds, low humidities, our fuels dry out all season long -- we don't get much there rain for during the summer -- so the potential is catastrophe. MS. HELLER: there I remember, 15 years ago, was in were controlled burns specifically where I hiking at that time, which was around Phoenix Lake San Anselmo. Do we But I haven't seen any controlled burns. Is that not good fire not do that anymore? prevention policy? MR. NAAR: going to That's one of the reasons we're through this fire management planning whether, on GGNRA lands, we process: be examine should putting fire deliberately on the Point Reyes landscape. has been the Other using Stinson up agencies, prescribed indeed, fire on GGNRA lands north of area. They manage our Beach-Bolinas property there. Water Fire So there have been burns. Marin Municipal Marin District, State Parks, I think also -- each of those agencies burns throughout the Southern are in conducting different controlled year 35 areas. MS. HELLER: Can I keep going? Yeah, if you would, for MS. FEIERABEND: the sake others, who may have comments and questions. MS. HELLER: I'm basically. There's only a few left. department, you is the wondering is there a wind I mean, in your fire management, are Because one of my concerns really exploring this? being at the top of the hill in Tam Junction, and first part of my hike is through the eucalyptus woods. And I'm confused about how I actually think about whether they should be cleared out because is dangerous and a horrible, you know, eucalyptus hazard. fire But, at the same time, if all those were taken out, if we just went in and took all those trees out without bay really building up a natural group of trees, the trees and oak trees, and whatever, what is it going to do to the wind patterns on my hill? I just want to know if that's being examined, and if that's an issue that you're looking at, along with prevention of fire. MR. NAAR: Well, it is an issue that we're looking at and it's also now one that's more important to us because you've brought it to our attention. MS. HELLER: Thank you. I might have some more questions after everybody else. 36 MS. FEIERABEND: Thank you very much. The woman in the white top. STATEMENT OF BETSY DE FRIES MS. DE FRIES: Hi! My name is Betsy DeFries. I live on Marin Drive, which is opposite the We're right opposite a eucalyptus grove, our knees in Miwok Trail. and we're currently, you know, up to up there. oak underbrush general fallen, There are fallen leaning trees trees, that just have I poison but and haven't come down yet on the road. would say, in the summer, at least three or four trees come down. the Generally in the summer; not generally to in winter, when people think they're going come down. fall. But I guess, when it's dry out there, they just I think it's really necessary to clear underbrush. I don't think anybody would argue the about which not. there that, whether or not you clear all the trees -some You of us are in favor of, and many of us are know, I'd love to see them cleared because is so much mess up there, and have new trees planted, native trees planted. It was one of the big criticisms that came down when, you know, when you did a certain amount of clearing up there, that trees 37 weren't planted right away. I think it's understandable that you can't plant trees always right away. A lot of them were planted elsewhere at the same time. So, you know, from my point of view, very selfishly, I'd love you to come up and take down those overhanging branches so they don't fall on people Take away those, -you the which they do, quite regularly. know, hanging trees, thin those trees out, clear Maybe even take away some of the underbrush. trees begin so to smaller Then and they don't become really huge plant some of those bays and ones. laurels things that would survive up there. It did seem to me, because we've had a up lot of discussion -- we have a big community there in Marin Drive, in that area, where quite group people meet once a quarter. has come up And the talk of native And I planting it's right in be the a number of times. think probably worth educating people, because we're up against the GGNRA, as to what they should plant their able yards to that would be good native trees Service, and work, the National Park with local nurseries, perhaps, so that we could really be educated as to what would be good things to plant, and perhaps get some, you know, help along that line. 38 There's Because there been some confusion up there. but up is National Park Service land against county land, and a little stretch of privately owned land, who is responsible for that? just the seems to me that it would be good people, or allow people to get You know, it to encourage of the or to ahold privately help owned people to get them also to clear, Because there's no incentive them clear it. do it unless they're helped. You know, I think it's a good idea if we you want I worked together, and not in opposition, which is, know, the the main thing. Like, you know, we don't trees cut. do We do want the trees cut. of I mean, time really effort. feel like that wastes a lot and I think it's really dangerous right now. I do agree with you that there are a lot of kids up there, you know, doing lots of And smoking, say: in Be general. really out whenever we see them, we do careful and make sure you put your cigarettes it so and and not give them such a hard time about they don't throw the stuff. I'm But still, you know, I'm clearing out brush from along there. always finding, there. you know, the Marlboro butt It's terrifying. Because hanging it's around really literally up to about here right now. 39 So that's all. MS. FEIERABEND: comments and suggestions. Anyone else? MS. HELLER: question. I would like to ask a to Thank you for your I mean I have heard that there is going be some help. are going to I mean someone was saying that that you do some clearing. Is that really helping? MS. FEIERABEND: to some of these questions. in general, a lot of these I will ask Alex to respond Let me just preface that, questions this evening that not we we're answer recording or so that they can be topics in the plan. We may address have us specific that some we answers at this point in time. need to, perhaps, do some data It tells collection, of analysis, and make sure that we address some these concerns that are being raised in the plan. MR. NAAR: comment on. Part One of thing our I just wanted to or -the for WUI funding, this year hits Wildland-Urban especially second Interface funding for in the Tam Valley area, so this question, as well -- is not only targeted mechanical removal and some of the thinning ideas that you've come up with, dealing with the fuel buildup, 40 but also we're funding our nursery program to plant in our nurseries native plants. of Which over the course the sited time, will be, in turn, planted out on where eucalyptus and/or broom are removed. I think, maybe, the most appropriate use of our time, if there are other comments about the Plan, is to talk -- after we break Because I think Fire -- Management up about these specific projects. were there we a couple of people who had questions before started. MS. FEIERABEND: Very good. Are there other general comments or questions regarding the Fire Management Plan? Yes. please. I will ask you to come forward, Be sure to share your name. STATEMENT OF JERRY VAN DE BEEK MR. VAN DE BEEK: My name is Jerry Van De Beek, and I live on the same hill. What takes they I see happening is that everybody then grow the out big trees, concentrate on big leave. trees, they Especially with eucalyptus, about ten feet a year. So nobody is dealing with small ones. I They become big ones in about two years. on the think it's really good idea to concentrate 41 small ones because you can take hundreds of those a day, and it takes about a week to take a big out one out. So that's basically my comments. Because, also, Marin Drive, where the water tower is, I already seen new trees growing, and they're about already like that, almost 6-feet high. MS. FEIERABEND: Thank you very much. Other folks, comments, questions? (No response.) MS. FEIERABEND: at Otherwise, what we'll do for and And, this point in time is break up and allow time to go around to each one of the one-on-one questions with stations staff. people have some again, we encourage you to write down your right that way, down your comments. We have flip questions, here your charts we can record them on. the Please pick up, on the questionnaire that has all of contact send and us to information your and also highlights how you can information, your comments, your ideas, track the process as we move forward. So, with that -MS. POINSOT: And please tell your neighbors and to friends, visit if you web think site they'll get be the interested, the and 42 information on how to comment. We expect to be receiving scoping comments until December -MS. FEIERABEND: MS. POINSOT: time, yet. MR. VAN DE BEEK: comments, comments. finally you're So, when you get all going to answer on the the So Fifth. there's quite a bit of Are we going to be able to answer -MS. FEIERABEND: That's a very good question, as to what happens with all the comments and question. Wendy, do you want to address that? MS. POINSOT: helps Fire us What we'll do is -in this our you of to define what we're going to look at Plan. So all the issues Management that bring up tonight, we need to consider in the scope our plan. We also need -- as we're later on going be developing alternative strategies for the plan -- to listen to your ideas not implementing what into we one about should/should do and fit all those in alternative or another, if it's appropriate. So the next thing that's going to happen receive staff, is, at the end of the scoping period, when we comments via the mail, in meetings from park from into other agencies, is: We'll compile the comments summarize a report, a scoping report, that will 43 the main issues. We'll have that on line. I don't know if we're going to mail out to a mailing list. MS. FEIERABEND: MS. POINSOT: line. That's to be determined. it will be available the on But That will be a compilation of all issues that then feed into this document. The next thing that happens is we take that, and we're going to start working on strategies. meetings about for alternative set of you with And we'll probably have another the public to get some ideas from whether you think we're on the right road the different alternatives that we've selected so far. So we'll have some draft alternatives for you to at, comment on, give us some advice. The next step would be to actually take the final alternative and look at the environmental effect that could occur if we implement those alternatives Your park. look throughout the park. neighborhood These are park-wide plans. and the rest of the extent of the And we'll put that out in a Draft Environmental Impact Statement. on that. This is a multi-year process. You comment It's You come to the meetings, participate. all going to be on line. And we'll be putting all the milestones and dates on line. Do we have a sign-up sheet for e-mail? 44 MS. FEIERABEND: MS. POINSOT: contact. neighbors would be Then know some you We do, outside. love to get your names for and this get We'd can also let friends So to about this contact way that we'll sheet. be able information out to the group. MR. VAN DE BEEK: question. MS. POINSOT: Yeah. If you would, please. I have just one more MS. FEIERABEND: STATEMENT OF JERRY VAN DE BEEK MR. VAN DE BEEK: I actually know that we don't only have eucalyptus trees growing in the but, also, between houses. trees park, And people that take those four thousand away, it cost them about two to dollars a tree to have them removed. there's like subsidy for that? out of I'm wondering it money remove If they can get to the Park Service to help them pay those trees, or are they totally responsible for those trees? We've got people like who have 10 to 12 trees from their property because they're in danger on their houses in their street. That's thousands and thousands of dollars. So my question is: Is there any money for 45 those people to make it a little easier? MS. FEIERABEND: address that? MR. NAAR: The That fits into the WUI Program. would Alex, do you want to way that would work, in your example, your local fire agency -- so you contact Marin is that's Soutern who Fire District -- and work with Mike Stone, the fire chief there, and have him, or his out and look at your trees. that are If there are would the staff, other a come ones a priority, then he submit project for funding approval. That's mechanism that's set up. MR. VAN DE BEEK: MS. FEIERABEND: Again, meeting Park Thank you. Great. Thank you. public at the all as there's going to be another on November eighteenth, in the city, at Fort Mason, that Headquarters, to. you're handout, invited well. That information is on the I'd like to thank you, once again. we all thank you, for coming out this I think and and evening participating in this process. provide us your comments. (Whereupon, at Please stay tuned 8:10 p.m., the scoping meeting was adjourned.). 46 C E R T I F I C A T E This proceedings is to certify that the of attached Interior, before the Department National Park Service, of the meeting of: GOLDEN GATE NATIONAL RECREATION AREA FIRE MANAGEMENT PLAN PUBLIC SCOPING MEETING were held as therein appears, and that this thereof for the files is of the the original GGNRA. transcript James W. Higgins, CVR Official Reporter