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									                                                       Workshop report

Market access and underlying structural
affecting marginalised producers(in south

Date:26th -27th september,2004
Venue:Centre for Education & Documentation,Bangalore
                               TABLE OF CONTENTS

  s.no                               Content              page
          a)Arun Raste- powerpoint presentation
         3b)Rajni Bakshi -presentation on New Economics
         4Suggestions on what this group can do
         5Prospective roles taken
         6list of Participants

[red not clear]
[green not understood]

                                                            DAY 1
                                                 26 september,2004


C.K Ganguly Timbaktu collective(Andra pradesh)
we have been basically working with the rural poor,peasantry,women folk.

The product at which we are looking at is millets.specifically,
>markets for millets.
>marketing strategy for the same.
We are looking for new markets,& marketing solutions for products.solutions from
organizations who are working in the field (just change,fisherfolk kerala etc)

the product we were originally focussing on was “groundnuts”but the more we looked
into the product we were unable to see what we could do with it.it's a dying crop.
We realised that to continue with groundnt is not an ecologically sound practice.
It would be going the sahal way.

Also despite andhra being the largest groundnut growing district the mill owners are
crashing & there is almost no oil that can be used in the Anantpur district none of the
mills are doing well(indian scenario).
we have been studying the condition of mills in kawad area where all the mills are going
                     The question is “if not groundnt,then what?”

Ramaraju- SOMNEED
working in rural areas-(in andhra)
our observation has bee that “the tribals were able to sustain themselves even
  without the existence of the markets”
another area of concern is the urban slum communities .we have to look into the
  migrations to the urban centres because of which we are losing rural areas for
  urban ones.one can study the case of vishakapatnem to understand the migration
The producer groups are decreasing largely being converted into consumers or
  incorporated in the service sectors.(where?)
can the fund(what fund?) be used to bring them back to the producer stage.

Rajni Bakshi-writer
one concept that is universally accepted is that “the bazaar is basic”.
However the need is for a healthy & vibrant linkage between the bazaar & the
There is a a need for creating a more level playing field via marketing strategies(for
we live in a time of great opportunity all that is required is a way of exploiting the
   same for effective use.
[She spoke of a big m & a small m]
work area fishermen communities
fishing is a traditional occupation that has forever been part of the market.so there are
   no dilemas as far as the small m or big m is concerned.our aim is to get a better deal
   for the product ,& better prices in the existing markets.
now the fisher communities is not looking for new markets or the creation of new
markets for livelihood.
* geeting the best out of the markets?

In the past 20 years or so no initiative has been undertaken in the cooperative
  sector.none has been implemented in a long time in any commodity(since Amul)save
  some small scale initiatives.todaywith the government going in favour of the private
  sector the initiatives are even less.the potential is tremendous provided some there are
  some promotional organizations & people ready to invest in such ventures.
Recent experience on visiting east timor,a subsistent economy is it's critical requirement
  of cash to buy some products.this has been a result of both the mordern changes
  brought in as well as by intonation occupation.
There is an ongoing debate regarding organic farming & the fact that we passed the
  control of our traditionla knowledge into the hands of the so called experts (who?)
  There is a need to go back to our traditional methods & reducing the dependence on
  the markets.
Also spoke about methods in kerala promoted by the church & the current debate on it's
  non-viability in regards to the consequence of the same for the present generation.

Rajni Bakshi- in this age where information is power.
How much access do these communities have the information scenario?
What is their ability to understand the same(literacy /awareness leve)?

Trilochan Sastry-Centre for Collective Development & IIM b'lore
at the village level there is a ned to calculate the surplus generated by the village & the
end destination it reaches.this is important in the context of reducing the dependence on
external credit.if there is a surplus & it is not being absorbed at the village level then one
need to check the leaks that are responsible for this produce reaching outside markets.
Thereby getting the surplus under the control of the local producers.
The best model for achieving this would be co-operatives.
By this method theeach person will have in aperiod of 5 years an amount of 5 to 7000 in
the cooperative account hence reducing the dependence on external creadit,which though
cannot be completely eliminated but the dependence greatly reduced by adopting such a

Rajni Bakshi
there is the question of the micro credit & tof international capital seeking deployment in
micro credit?
Will that not be another avenue for leakage?

k.s gopal cec hyderabad
need to find where our business is to enlarged,it's not a question of ideological thought
   process but finding a way to exploit the opportunities existing in order to succeed in
   the markets & to make profits.
We need to have an understanding of the markets , to get an insight in the levers &
   norms to succeed there.to get a perspective of our work areas.
A need for interface (between whom?)
enhancing at the sectoral level(did not get this part,tape or notes)

Arun Raste-IRFT mumbai
Q)are we looking for new market for surpluses or for a market for a product not there???
90% of the time the market isn't the problem,the blame lies somewhere else(where & in
   what context?)
if a product has quality & value it will sell.creating pursued value for your community.
We need to look at the age group pf below 20 which constitutes a major part of the
   target consumers.
   q)what appeals to them?get their perspective.
The surplus being back into the system is getting into consumer durables????

Sajan Ganapathy-Just Change
when the aructure itself is capital based then where is the possibility of succeeding for
producers who don't possess the capital?
There is requirement for creating an alternative structure for the primary producer.

Walter mendoza ( i didn't understand this)
we are talking about a greater market -both in size & quantity of producers &
consumersof basic goods like food/shelter/education.
The other market is based on technology ,innovations & speculative finance.
Looking at the greater common good:
a)bioregionalism(localising markets)local produce for local consumption. not only
looking at urban metropoloitan but also semi urban areas which is an important part of
bio regionalism .
Trading in metropolitan scene is not contradictory to bioregionalism.
b)convergence & networking amongst primary producers.
c)need to relate to the larger social political level.need for an economic networking at a
larger level.
Amul has become a giant with tremendous infrastructure but it's delinked from the
political process.
walter mendoza-the question about the role of the state in the merkets

post independence the state took on a very dominant role in the economy.it took on itself
multiple roles .role of;

Investor-not only in business but also in aectors that would enable business to take place
like transport,telecommunicatione etc..
trader helping producers at one hand & the consumers at the other..promoting a variety of
institutions ,private sector(both large & small),promoting mills(modernisation of mills)
consequently the state today has a wide over-arching presence in our economy.
Due to these multiple roles the state is not able to meet the various demands.they are
working at crossroads,each against the other .there is no coherence.in such a scenario the
stronger forces dominate.there is the case of dumoing a lot of money in sectors just to be
politically correct.
The resulting contradictions in the state policy /system has led to many distortions.
Eg the handloom sector has been destroyed through the patronage of the govrnment.
There are different plicies to suit different constituencies.
Post 1991,the slogan goes as”freedom is for corporates not cooperatives.
The market is not just about buying & selling about exchange it is about a whole set of
institutions ,rules,values,norms.the market is not just a creation for exchange.
Each community has it's own market systems.india is not new to the concept of
markets,we have a long history of flourishing trade.traditional marketing systems have
merged into the modern systems.
Ironically it is these very distortions,plurality,lack of coherence that provides a space to
intervene,to influence the state policies.
There have been instances of the state trying to encroach in the civil society,to shrink
it,but the members of the civil society have been able to resist the pressue.although
nothing radical can take place members of the civil society do have powers that enables
them to fight against the state.the state is still the arena where battles can be fought .

Shambu Prasad-CRISP
in a recent workshop on 'understanding markets'one idea that was revealed was that
“when it is an accepted idea that the state has failed.”(incomplete)
at one level the state does not have a role in the market but it has an important role in the
way the markets are understood..that is the consumer perspective can be manipulated by
the intervention of the state.
Eg in a distress sal of handloom in tamil nadu the state intervention by the the mass
market sale resulted in showcasing handloom as a highly subsidised ,valueless & as one
woman coined it 'cloth that can be used to wash your car'.
it is in such scenarios that intervention to stop such damage by the state becomes
There is no state policy on handloom.
Liberalisation has completely bypassed this sector.

Walter:however,today there is a platform for us to influence/talk with the state.a toehold.

Rajni Bakshi
what would be the outlook on liberalisation in the handloom sector?
There is a need for concrete set of ideas to deal with the issues.

is our role to get these state institutions working ?
Or do the ngo's & like have the capacity to create an alternative setup?
What we lack is the ability to fill the vaccum created by the withdrawal of the existing

Trilochan Sastry
one of the major areas of intervention is rural indebtness.
How can we do anything substantial in this case without a state policy?

Vivekanandan:getting policy changes is not sufficient,instruments also play an
important role.we need both policy & institutions to implement change.

c.k ganguly
there is money flowing in.(incomplete)
i have yet to come across a family that is not indebted.the debt trap is prvalent througout.

k.s gopal
the greatest strength id democracy.the power of the voter plays an important role in the
market scenario.
Looking at the golbal scene in mexico PT/PX(a major telecom giant) concluded that the
only way to pump money into the rural economy is through a sustained deficit of 8-10%

                         A)Arun Raste- powerpoint presentation
                                      go to file

docsweb/localisation/Bangalore presentation (1).ppt

[needs inputs from tapes]there was a lot in this section that i could not understand &
note down will require time to listen to the tapes & fill out the same.

Rajni Bakshi: regarding the fair trade issue & the certification standards set for the
Why are the certification standards not framed in the indian context.?
Why do we have to accept standards set by international agencies?
Why not frame standards which are acceptable internationally?

k.s gopal-in india there is no standard set for selling organic food.the exchange is more
or less on trust.
Consumers are not aware of the principles of fair trade.there is a need to train the
consumers in this regard.

c.k ganguly:there exists a huge market for organic food in th rural areas.

sajan ganapathy: the concept of fair trade is still largely a western one.the element of
charity looming large.
                                                                                Lunch break

                            B)presentation on new economics
rajni bakshi
in the historical context the emergence of new economics shows it's beginning in the
early 19th century.in india gandhi can be credited with familiarising to the said topic.
The reason behind the emergence of this area of study is the list of problems related with
the conventional economics.
The working of An american centred group named”redefining progress” is worth looking
into to get an idea about this field of study.
    Some points made
Gnp(gross national product is considered as an unrepresentative measure of the
    condition of the economy.an alternate suggestion has been the GPI-genuine progress
Stop taxing income & start taxing wastes.make it unviable for people to produce.
GNH-gross national happiness .study the case of bhutan

  case studies
new  economics foundations-negatives are not registered as a success.
The students at harvard revolted against the economics curriculum taught.the demanded
  for an alternative course which does not look at only set ideas.
Use of community currency-TERRA.making a global currency that is anchored in
Ethical investments:the intention is not charity but on conscience.seeking not only the
  negative areas of investment ,but also looking for positive avenues for ethical
Natural capitalism:nature is a capital.the future lies with those kinds of technologies &
  products that are in tune with nature.
Theory of gift economy:movement of material goods as a binding force obetween
The concept of social venture capital.
Ecological foorprint.

k.s gopal:questions put forwardto rajni bakshi
what is “barefoot economic”?
What are the books available on the new economics topic?
Is there any case study of a gnp being done for a village?
What are the mainstream changes taking place in the alternative economics scenario?

trilochan sastry:need for
lobbying in policy decisions with the state.
Discussions with the producer groups on th question of plugging the leaks(???not

walter mendoza:as a group what kind of perspective do we have on the actual influence
on state policy decisions?(not clear)

rajni bakshi:there is a need for recognizing the leaks in the public domain.
vivekanandan:how do you create a market for a socially acceptable product?
What's the possibility to nurture a network for learning the mechanics of doing
activities?(what activities?)

                        4)suggestions on what this group can do

specific areas
1)marketing groups get together-
(a)support systems (b)gnp (c)sub sectoral studies (d)producer groups
2)fair trade.
3)interaction /interface with the industry.
4)exploration of markets.
5)operationalising this group.


c.k ganguly:
to get together people involved in mainstream marketing.
Conduct product studies at different levels.
Raise funds for conducting such studies & also involve peopleoutside this group into
   this study.
Linking these producers & consumers in some way.

ramraju:getting groups to scan the needs & services required from /in different areas.

k.s gopal: need for an interface with the industry.

sajan ganapathy:study the product chain in it's entirety.
arun raste:look up alternatives to mainstream markets.

dr purushothaman-it can be split into short term & long term goals.
Also there is a need to strenghten the existing producer groups.

Walter mendoza:since there are vhardly a few producer groups the question is how to
promote them?

Shambu prasad:educating the consumer on the concept of fair trade.
Checking the potential new markets as a consequence of fair trade.

k.s gopal: we are still talking about marketing not markets.(incomplete)
can successful models like timbaktu not be marketed.

vivekanandan:at what level are we pitching the dialogue?

rajni bakshi:we can use this group to sell ideas to the target audience.

walter mendoza:a need for networking.
To look into what we are doing & how it is impacting the power play.understanding the
larger picture.

k.s gopal:it is only with the poor getting a decisive role in the market that any change be

vivekanandan:creating institutions that channel the groups(what groups) at various
levels woulsd be helpful.
Not looking at the replication of self help groups as this shows the lack of creativity in
the ngo sector(did not get the context in which he was talking)

k.s gopal:we need to find the trigger that results in the entrepreneurial potential in the
Geeting into engagements with people in the respective fields & get their inputs &
understanding for implementing action ino the issues provided.

walter:have collective rather than individual reflection.

                                                                                     DAY 2
                                                                             27th september

                       Follow up on what the group should do
arun raste:get a consumer perspective in particular ayouth perspective,what appeals to
them ,ehat they need?
k.s gopal:a discussion on the question of interface with the industry.
Why? & why not?
Since many have reservations about the same.

Walter:what is the institutioal structure of this group?
What resources are needed?

Rajni bakshi:we need to look at a system in a climate that provides opportunities.a
ground for multiplication of opportunities.

                           Question)market support groups?

Walter: conducting studies of individual products
a)conceptualising the study:can we build an availability of support systems in the areas of
study,in the geographical context.

k.s.gopal:the studies conducted should oindicate the purpose ,the end use of the study,it's
objective.the purpose being clear & concrete.

Vivekanandan:there needs to be a group of young professionals indulging in the study
full time.

Rajni bakshi:for this we will have to look at the institutions that would house theese

Vivekanandan:is this group going to become a separate entity or just a platfom for
people with a common interest?

Walter:are we going to replicate institutions like “just change” or use their existing

Rajni bakshi:we need to address the question of the time at the dispense of the members
in question?

Walter :setting up a frame work to work on & then establish links with outside support.

Vivekanandan:we need to define a geographical area to work on.narrowing down on
target groups ,constituency would be beneficial.

Walter:begining with south india.{fishermen community/dryland farming/artsans/tribals]
priority needs to be given for defining producer groups.

Can have programs at 2 levels:
a)starting with existing prodcer groups
b)new prodcer groups.
Educating people on fair trade & help them market their products by themselves.
Make sub groups & delegate areas of work over a period of time.

Walter:need for capacity building.

c.k ganguly:look at the alternatives to GNP ,within a specific area(in different
bioregional zones).
Need to check whether this is a work area worth pursuing?

                                Interface with the industry
k.s gopal:widening the group over a period of time & bringing in a diverse interest
to incorporate in this group.this woulod help us develop newer perspective.
We should keep this an open forum for discusion & work ,this is a must if we want
success .
List of people:
get from tape

                      concrete action plan to have this interface:
meeting the industry people(list above & additions)
have an open attitude for a dialogue to take place.
Finalise an agenda for discussion for the interface.preparing a draft concept to put
  forward to this group(industry personnel)

ashish-timaktu collective:for groups that don't have any experience in marketing is there
a plan to initiate them in this process,a help support group,using existing resources &

k.s gopal:the ngo sector is poor at the marketing level.this area needs to be worked upon.

                              Operationalising this group

arun raste:we require a mailing list.

Purushottam:an adequate understanding the work areas of the group members.

k.s gopal:put the contents on a website.this could be tool for linking the ideas & the work
done by the group members.
Build a library on the existing materials.a segement on new economics.cataloguing the
materials.building the industry knowledge resource base.
Question)what is the qualifying criteria for entry into this group?

Question)how often does this group meet?
Tenatively in 6 months(not sure)february/march.

Question)exploration of markets?(not clear)
rajni bakshi:how can we strengthen the bazaar ?
k.s gopal:markets need to be markets of co-operation.the best way to increase produce iss
to control the markets.
Sajan ganapathy:ngo's need to change their attitude to investment based economics.

                                     5)Prospective Roles taken

AREAS                                                         PERSONNEL INCHARGE
Secretariate,co-ordinator(i didn't get this)                   Walter Mendoza

Study of GNP at the village level                             Ramraju

Marketing support group                                       Shambu Prasad

Interface with the industry                                   Rajni Bakshi,
                                                              Arun Raste.

Help to new inexperienced groups
in the marketing fields                                       Vineeta,
                                                              Arun Raste
                                                              K.V Raju.

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