How to Start a Business Like Paypal - PDF by xlk10099

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									Where do I start for recurring...


        kjp6 5 posts since
Jul 19, 2010
Hi



Perhaps it's me, but I've been reading on this site for over an hour now and it's still not clear
to me what I need to do to integrate subscription payments on my site. I've read the various
docs but they seem written for experienced Paypal developers - and not newcomers. The
code samples are all scattered in snippets and don't seem aimed at subscription based sites
- just the basics.



Where are some clear end-to-end actual examples that simply show and explain exactly
what you need to do on a complete step by step basis? Which services do we have to sign
up to get going with this?



We have a site written in ASP.NET and want to use subscription payments. We would like
the user to be able to make credit/debit card payments using their card or by Paypal if they
have an account. We are happy for the user to go to the PayPal site to make the payment
  - after that we want the user to be returned automatically to our site and we would like our
database to update to show that the user has subscribed.



Finally we would like to know if a subscription payment can be increased or decreased
easily for all our users. For example, if we initially set our subscription rate at GBP 5 can we
later change it to GBP 6 or GBP 4 for our users - without them having to unsubscribe and
resubscribe?



Thanks in advance for any help.




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Where do I start for recurring...


Kevin

Tags: paypal, recurring


         PP_MTS_Chad 10,033 posts since
Sep 23, 2008 1. Re: Where do I start for recurring subscriptions??? Jul 20, 2010 6:44 AM

kjp6



Well first are you wanting to use subscriptions with Website Payments Standard, or are you
wanting to use recurring payments with Website Payments Pro.



With Webiste Payments Standard subscriptions, there are no API calls used. The buyer is
redirected over to PayPal where they can either log into their account, or use there credit
card and create a PayPal account. With the Website Payments Standard, the buyer will
have to either have a PayPal account or will have to create one. Once the buyer has made
the payment, you can set up auto return to return the buyer back to your site, and you can
also set up IPN to update your system.



With Website Payments Pro recurring payments, this will use API calls. If the buyer is
paying with a credit card directly on your site they will not need a PayPal account. If they
pay using their PayPal account they will be going through Express Checkout where they will
log into their PayPal account. So they will be directed over to PayPal for a moment to sign
in, and then they will be directed back to your site to complete the payment. There is also a
30.00 monthly charge for recurring payments with Website Payments Pro.



Also for recurring payments with Express Checkout, the payment amount can be increased
by no more than 20% every 180 days (starting when the profile is created).



          kjp6 5 posts since
Jul 19, 2010 2. Re: Where do I start for recurring subscriptions??? Jul 20, 2010 7:12 AM

   in response to: PP_MTS_Chad
Thanks Chad. From your description I guess we want Website Payments Standard.
We want the user to be able to pay with their own credit/debit card, or using their PayPal



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account - all on PayPal's website - we will NOT be collecting any of their payment details on
our site. My other questions:



1) I also heard mention of 'Premium Services' - is this something we need for a subscription
based service?



2) Does Express Checkout fit in to all of this if we are using Website Payments Standard? Or
is that just for Website Payments Pro?



3) If we want to increase the subscription price, and we have Website Payments Standard,
can we do this? From your answer it sounds like you need Express Checkout which is part
of Website Payments Pro.



Can we increase the subscription price for users who pay by their own credit/debit account
(i.e. non Paypal account holders)?



Do we have to go through each individual user's profile to increase the price? Or can we
increase the subscription rate for multiple users all at once?



4) Where can I find full sample code (not just snippets) in ASP.NET (Vb) for the IPN to
update our database? Is there an end to end example that we can see, learn from and
modify?



5) If we use Website Payments Standard then presumably we update user's profiles, view
stats, make refunds etc. through our business PayPal account after we login?




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Finally we have a business PayPal account already. Can we develop and test using this one
in the Sandbox - and then transfer it to another businesss account once we are ready to go
live? Is this easy to do?



Sorry for all the questions but I have been trying to find these answers on your site and it's
not easy for newcomers.



Thanks.



Kevin



         PP_MTS_Chad 10,033 posts since
Sep 23, 2008 3. Re: Where do I start for recurring subscriptions??? Jul 20, 2010 10:14 AM

   in response to: kjp6
kjp6



1) I also heard mention of 'Premium Services' - is this something we need for a subscription
based service? I am not sure what you are referring to exactly here by premium services.



2) Does Express Checkout fit in to all of this if we are using Website Payments Standard? Or
is that just for Website Payments Pro? You can use Express Checkout if you want, you do
not have to have Pro to use Express Checkout.



3) If we want to increase the subscription price, and we have Website Payments Standard,
can we do this? From your answer it sounds like you need Express Checkout which is part
of Website Payments Pro. With Express Checkout you can only increase the amount by
no more than 20% every 180 days (starting when the profile is created). With Website
Payments Standard, you would have to create a modify button that the buyer would have
to click and then log into their account and agree to the new terms, or you could also just
cancel the previous subscription and create a new one.


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Where do I start for recurring...




Can we increase the subscription price for users who pay by their own credit/debit account
 (i.e. non Paypal account holders)? If you are referring to recurring payments with Website
Payments Pro where they use their credit card then yes you would be able to make the
update through an API call. If you are referring to a subscription payment where the buyer
used their credit card, they would of created a PayPal account and they will need to click
a modify button and agree to the new terms or you would have to have them create a new
profile, and cancel the old one like I mentioned above.



Do we have to go through each individual user's profile to increase the price? Or can
we increase the subscription rate for multiple users all at once? You would not be able to
increase the subscription for multiple users at once, you would have to do it one at a time.
If you are using recurring payments, you could just create a script to loop through all of the
profiles you have and have update API request done to change the amount.



4) Where can I find full sample code (not just snippets) in ASP.NET (Vb) for the IPN
to update our database? Is there an end to end example that we can see, learn from
and modify? The only sample code PayPal has available can be found here and here.
Otherwise you can try searching online for some additional sample code.



5) If we use Website Payments Standard then presumably we update user's profiles, view
stats, make refunds etc. through our business PayPal account after we login? Correct, but
with standard you will be limited as to what you can do in your profile.



Finally we have a business PayPal account already. Can we develop and test using this
one in the Sandbox - and then transfer it to another business account once we are ready to
go live? Is this easy to do? Yes you can test in the sandbox and then move to live using a
different account.



          kjp6 5 posts since
Jul 19, 2010 4. Re: Where do I start for recurring subscriptions??? Jul 21, 2010 6:12 AM

   in response to: PP_MTS_Chad




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Where do I start for recurring...


Thanks Chad but you have helped and confused me at the same time. I have found a link to
'Premium Services' here:



https://www.paypal-business.co.uk/premiumservices/index.htm



This states that with Website Payments Standard "Your customers no longer need a PayPal
account.You can now accept recurring payments from all those customers who prefer to pay
directly with their credit / debit card."



As I mentioned before, we want the user to be able to pay with their own credit/debit
card (without having to sign up for PayPal ideally), or to use their PayPal account - all
on PayPal's website - we do NOT want to collect any of their payment details on our site.
 In addition, as it is a new website, we do not know which pricing point will work for our
subscription - so we want the ability to change the subscription price, for all our customers,
easily at a later date.



If I understand correctly we can not do this unless we sign up for Website Payments Pro?
- and then we have to get in to extra development, and therefore costs, to write API calls to
do this and to host payment details on our site? Is this correct? I thought having the ability
to change a subscription (i.e. product) price for all your customers at the same time, easily,
would be a basic requirement in a recurring payments system?



I'm still really no clearer as to which combination of Website Payments Standard / Website
Payments Pro / Express Checkout / Premium Services we should be choosing to achieve
our aims in paragraph 4 above?



         PP_MTS_Chad 10,033 posts since
Sep 23, 2008 5. Re: Where do I start for recurring subscriptions??? Jul 21, 2010 1:40 PM

   in response to: kjp6
kjp6




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Where do I start for recurring...


With Website Payments Standard, your buyers can pay with with a credit card without
having to have a PayPal account in most cases. The add to cart, buy now, and donation
buttons will allow your buyers to pay without having to have a PayPal account. However,
subscription buttons are slightly different. The buyer would have to create a PayPal
account with Website Payments Standard. However, if you are not wanting to use Website
Payments Pro, there is a newer feature that was recently recently released called Enhanced
Recurring Payments. This would work like subscriptions but the buyer can just use their
credit cards without having to have a PayPal account.



However, the only service that will meet your needs as far as updating all of the profiles at
once will only be Website Payments Pro, and this would only be achieved by running a script
on your side that loops through all of your profile ids, and does an update for them one at a
time until it reaches the end of file.



          kjp6 5 posts since
Jul 19, 2010 6. Re: Where do I start for recurring subscriptions??? Jul 21, 2010 3:50 PM

   in response to: PP_MTS_Chad
Thanks again Chad. If I am right, Enhanced Recurring Payments looks to be the same as
Premium Services for the UK - would be helpful if everything had the same name



At the moment we do not really want to pay extra development costs for API programming
for Website Payments Pro, so can we upgrade from Website Payments Standard to Website
Payments Pro later if necessary?




So for now, if I have got this correct, we need to do the following?:



1) Sign up for 'Website Payments Standard'




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Where do I start for recurring...


2) Sign up for 'Premium Services' in the UK (called 'Enhanced Recurring Payments' in the
US). This will allow our customers to pay by credit/debit card but they do not have to create
a PayPal account? Does this service create the same individual customer profile as for
those with a PayPal account?



3) Sign up for Express Checkout as well? Or does that come automatically with Website
Payments Standard?




If we do all the above, then we will be able to accept subscription payments from customers
with Paypal accounts - and accept subscription payments from customers with a credit/debit
card, but who do not want to join PayPal?



With all the above we can increase or decrease the subscription rate for customers by 20%
max over 180 days. This modification applies to customers who have a PayPal account,
and applies to customers who have paid by credit/debit card without a PayPal account?



However we can only change the subscription rate by asking each customer to click a
modify subscription button? Alternatively can we update the subscription rate in their profile
on an individual basis, so they don't have to click a modify button?



With all the above, we can not update the subscription rate for multiple users at once?



         PP_MTS_Chad 10,033 posts since
Sep 23, 2008 7. Re: Where do I start for recurring subscriptions??? Jul 22, 2010 7:06 AM

   in response to: kjp6
kjp6



1) Sign up for 'Website Payments Standard' Correct


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Where do I start for recurring...




2) Sign up for 'Premium Services' in the UK (called 'Enhanced Recurring Payments' in the
US). This will allow our customers to pay by credit/debit card but they do not have to create
a PayPal account? Does this service create the same individual customer profile as for
those with a PayPal account? Correct you would need to sign up for this service. It will
create profiles for those buyers paying directly with a credit card as well as those paying with
their PayPal accounts.



3) Sign up for Express Checkout as well? Or does that come automatically with Website
Payments Standard? There is nothing to sign up for with Express Checkout. This service
can by used by any business or premier account.




If we do all the above, then we will be able to accept subscription payments from customers
with Paypal accounts - and accept subscription payments from customers with a credit/debit
card, but who do not want to join PayPal? Correct.



With all the above we can increase or decrease the subscription rate for customers by 20%
max over 180 days. This modification applies to customers who have a PayPal account,
and applies to customers who have paid by credit/debit card without a PayPal account? I
am double checking on this one with our engineers, as this is a somewhat newer feature.



However we can only change the subscription rate by asking each customer to click a
modify subscription button? Alternatively can we update the subscription rate in their profile
on an individual basis, so they don't have to click a modify button? If you are referring
to subscriptions, the buyer would have to agree to the new terms. If you are referring to
enhanced recurring payments, you would be able to make these changes and the buyer
would not have to log into their account and agree to the new terms.



With all the above, we can not update the subscription rate for multiple users at once? With
both the Website Payments Standard and enhanced recurring payments you will not be able
to update the all the profiles at once programmatically through an API call. You would have


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Where do I start for recurring...


to use recurring payments with Website Payments Pro and Express Checkout to be able to
use API's to programmatically update the profiles.



          kjp6 5 posts since
Jul 19, 2010 8. Re: Where do I start for recurring subscriptions??? Jul 22, 2010 7:58 AM

   in response to: PP_MTS_Chad
Thanks Chad.



1) I'm still not clear, from your answer above, if we need Express Checkout for what we want
to do? We are new to Paypal so do we need Express Checkout for our subscription service
  - or is it all covered by Website Payments Standard and Premium Services/Enhanced
Recurring Payments?



I know you say we can use Express Checkout - but do we need to use it?



2) So if we want to change the subscription rate you are saying that those with a Paypal
account have to login to their Paypal account and agree to the rate change - but those
without a Paypal account, who have signed up with their own credit/debit card using
Enhanced Recurring Payments, do not have to agree to any subscription rate changes? For
the latter we can change the subscription rate on their created Profile and that's it?



If this is so, this seems a bit messy from our point of view - as we have to use 2 different
processes depending on whether they are a Paypal account holder or not. Can you also
check with your engineers, as you mentioned, to see exactly how this process works for the
2 different types of user i.e. PayPal account holder or non-PayPal account holder.



3) What happens if someone does not agree to the subscription rate modification - is the
subscription automatically cancelled?



         PP_MTS_Chad 10,033 posts since




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Where do I start for recurring...


Sep 23, 2008 9. Re: Where do I start for recurring subscriptions??? Jul 22, 2010 9:47 AM

   in response to: kjp6
kjp6



1) You do not have to use Express Checkout, using it would be up to you. Express
Checkout allows the buyer to pay with their PayPal account, however Website Payments
Standard subscriptions, and Enhanced Recurring Payments are both going to allow the
buyer the pay with their PayPal account if they have this. With Express Checkout you would
have the API calls available to use for those buyers that paid with their PayPal account
through the Express Checkout flow.



2) So if we want to change the subscription rate you are saying that those with a Paypal
account have to login to their Paypal account and agree to the rate change - but those
without a Paypal account, who have signed up with their own credit/debit card using
Enhanced Recurring Payments, do not have to agree to any subscription rate changes?
For the latter we can change the subscription rate on their created Profile and that's it? If
the buyer paid through a subscription button with Website Payments Standard, then yes
if you needed to have the amount updated, they would need to come back and click on a
modify button you have your site, log into their account and agree to the new terms. If the
buyer went through Express Checkout recurring payments, or through enhanced recurring
payments and you need to update the profile amount then you can update the amount
without the buyer having to come back to your site and agree to the new terms.



3) What happens if someone does not agree to the subscription rate modification - is the
subscription automatically canceled? It will still continue to bill on the regular terms unless
you cancel it, or if the profile is cancelled by the buyer.




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