Refinance Home When You Are Upside Down by cxz63356


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									Dave: 3-8-10 Dallas Debt Collection

AFV: Federal reserve 1913 sect 13 paragrph 6 and 7 for bankers acceptance; 13A,
commercial, industrial and agricultural emergency act…power of federal reserve banks.
Look in part 4 of the WHFIT… you will find that information there;
look at all the pages of supporting documents on why we can do what we can do.

3-8-10 Dallas Debt Collection is Angela‟s website…lots of calls, documents and notes
from calls on there.

Manual on how to do AFV inside the army so they can pay for goods and services and
will send to Angela

8:00 MST—finally got Rodney on the call!
Rodney, former banker………background is in banking and was a private banker for 1.5
years, also in lending and also in title and escrow; knows the full process with loans.
The notes on private banking side; when we get the loan on the property we would get 3
copies of the and stamp without recourse and give all 3 to the COO and they were
deposited on the private side. Before anyone receives their „loan‟ the bank gets 3 times
the amount of the note.

Then the money was wired. The bottom line, everything was created by our signature on
that notes.

Dave: a friend signed 4 copies of a note, and his copy was his „personal copy‟ and the
extras were file copies.
Rodney, you don‟t notarize the note, there is no reason to.

Dave: how did you leave the bank
Rodney: I began to ask questions. A friend out of Calif raised my awareness and I talked
with him for about 3 to 6 months as he asked more and more questions. He asked what
was done with the notes. He asked about promissory notes and what I would do with
them if I got one of those. I‟d put the questions to the CEO. After I asked a few
questions they started investigating me. I didn‟t understand why, I was just asking
questions. I just wanted to make sure what my Calif friend was asking. The CEO, CFO,
and COO started grilling me on while I was asking these questions. A month later we got
together and they decided it was best that I leave the bank.

Rodney, they didn‟t want the information I was asking be uncovered by a vice president.
Anybody can be a vice president. The COO, CEO, and CFO are the ones who
understand all the forms of payment. They understand all that happens to the note.

Dave: they are the ones who know how to access the treasury account
Rodney: when I thought about it, I realized they access the treasury account all the tie.
Dave: do you know what they do in the case of opening credit card accounts?

Rodney: I would speculate that they were accessing treasury accounts with credit cards.
Dave: Tim has a friend who works for Wachovia and they said when some applies for a
credit card account, they hit it for $2M and it is hypothecated, even if it is $2K. Is this
why banks are profitable? They have access and once we have a person‟s signature we
can pretty much access that account. Before I left, and since then, I have gathered a few
notes that are stamped.
Dave: I know people in Florida with copies out of the mortgage foreclosure file and one
individual had 5 stamped on there.
Rodney: I have seen 3 and one of them had PAID stamped on the front of the note.
Dave: does the bank monetize or securitize the loan application
Rodney: from what I saw, No. They had unlimited access to the note. They did with
credit card applications.
Dave: what happens to the mortgage payments that are made.
Rodney: that‟s what is shown on the public show; that is all the losses the banks are
Dave: what does the bank file a 1099A on when we fail to claim the account
Rodney: I don‟t know; most of that work is done on the COO level.
Dave: all what we have identified as the fraud is limited to the top people in the bank and
the most are oblivious
Rodney: correct, and if they ask questions, the same thing that happened to me will
happen to them.

Knocked off the call at 8:15
Rodney: Before you receive the lien we receive 4 times the amount.
Dave: can you confirm this is hypothecated 9 times or more;
Rodney: after they got the wire, they did not decrease the amount of the wire; we
bundled up the notes and sold the notes as mortgage backed securities on wall street. It‟s
not the public account; it‟s the private side of the transaction. They have the private
book for the notes and the public side is the mortgage side. The bank examiners only
look at the public books…
Dave: do you have anything , any suggestions or ideas to say to people to do to protect
themselves in any way as far as procedures and questions
Rodney: the bank tries to maintain clean hands…the trustee attorneys…..8:19 MST to
Rodney: the bank just wants to create more notes and get more signatures

Question: what if we sign our name on a check?
Rodney: the bank does not get 10 times the amount on the check; I didn‟t work on that
side and I was more on the banking side. For deposits, we would lend out 5 to 6 times
the amount of the deposits.
Jason: I am doing bankruptcy court tomorrow in a chap 13 tomorrow, and I have 2
properties and I do have an attorney and I want the original mortgage note with my wet
ink signature.
Rodney: that is destroyed at title (8:22 MST) to clarify. The original note is destroyed.
Jason: they will try to bring a photo copy of the note; you can‟t prove it‟s an original.

Liar Liar: if they bring anything that is allegedly your signature, you deny it 100%.
Anything that has left your possession within 15 minutes; they cannot authenticate the
signature unless they were there and had first hand knowledge that it is yours.
Rodney: there is no notary.
Dave: at what point is the wet ink original note destroyed?

Dave: I will talk to Rodney and see if we can get him on again in the future for more
question and answer. We want to clarify the specifics and we‟d like to know more about
the process so we can deal with it in the courts and they are a huge problem. Hopefully
this will be restored with the Restore America plan.

Caller: what bank did he work for and what federal reserve district was he in?

Another Caller: man had 1st bankruptcy hearing in Jan. the judge asked bank to produce
the wet ink document, last Tues was the 2nd hearing and the bank did not show up.
Thomas: I‟m in AZ, can you get me the court case #? Caller: I don‟t have the
information and someone who does have it is out of town and I will pass it on to Dave.

Dennis: go to the bankruptcy court in Las Vegas.. Mitchell vs. Wells Fargo is the
information that you want

Caller 3: be sure after the defendant is admitted to start an adversarial proceeding; this is
how people are getting remedy is in the bankruptcy court. Angela will put it on the

David: I was in a house in GA that I had purchased and I started learning about this
process; I‟ve been out of the house for about 5 years and I keep getting calls from people
asking me to refinance the house in GA. Caller 4: there might have been a problem with
the title

Dave: Rodney is back 8:32 MST

Vinnie: if you write the bank a BPN is there any way of tracing it and finding out the
date it was monetized through CUSIP.
Rodney: I am not sure about that.

Dave: everyone listening, if you know someone who was in banking and left, talk to
them; if you know someone who was a judge or magistrate and is no longer, talk to them.
There are people out here with the information. If we can touch base with these
people…. I had a city magistrate sign the Restore America. He may lost his job over the
signature. For the last couple of months he has been aware of what is going on. He
wants to learn more about what we are doing before coming on a call. Now he looks at
each case differently now that he knows more.

Rodney: we get all of our training in the bank and we do go to some seminars.

Jason: I‟m trying to find the case on Mitchell vs Wells Fargo…..
Dave: go to Angela‟s website.
Angela: go to; go to and click on Sam
Davis link for that case. Click on official site.

Rodney: I‟m about to sign off….
Dave: hopefully we‟ll get you back on again.

Dennis: go to Fitch Rating Services….found a mortgage pool of 1st and 2nd liens that is
over 218 billion in value. I will send this to Angela. Go to court and do a subpoena
duces tecum for the mortgage in this pool.

Caller: if you are going to use any court case as trying to precedence to your situation
call the court and get the clerk to send you a certified copy of the 1st page and the judge‟s
order and place that into your case, certifiy in and certify it right back out. That judge
now has to use your court case as precedence. The judges will argue when we try to
bring cases in, but once you certify it in this was it does give it precedence.

Caller: cite the full, faith and credit laws of the constitution for the authority to bfing
evidence from other jurisdictions.

Caller: UCC9 states any documents electronically filed with the SOS that you certify out
is primae facie evidence and will not be looked at as an exhibit and has no weight behind
it at all. Get self-authenticating evidence and it is accepted as fact.

Caller: when you deal with cases with no real party in interest under UCC9336 (d) deals
with co mingled and the security interest is separated and is not longer attached after it is

Angela: I cannot find the case …. I have Wells Fargo vs Bird…
Dennis: I have 4 different cases that state you have to have the note and the deed;

Produce the note vs holder in due course in court are two different factors; one is the note
and one is the security interest. They may come up with a piece of paper and say this is
an official copy. Your answer is okay, this is true and correct, are the holder or the
servicer? Dennis: they cannot ever prove injury.

Liar said earlier, if it‟s a copy, you automatically deny. If they have pay to the order
sample, it further invalidates the note that was altered materially because it is no longer a
note, it is a draft.

Liar: always ask for the front and the back; all promissory notes go through the SEC and
they have a tracking card for what pool your note was sold in and there will be a bar code
and there should be a CUSIP #. IF there is neither of these, this is a forgery.

Quotes on title 18 at 8:51….

Caller: deny the signature and everything stops.
Harold: never admit the debt; if you during the proceedings, you are done. It doesn‟t
prove standing if you have made payments. NY is a hard note to crack and nobody has
every gotten over denial of the signature and it shuts the case down until they can prove
the case otherwise. They cannot go forward until they bring in the original.

Liar: we ask them to validate the debt and they send copies of alleged payments; your
argument now, modern money mechanics page 6, the banks have fraudulently pulled you
into a scam. The courts won‟t hear the argument; they are denying you lawful access to
the court.

Jeff: I am going through bankruptcy court; my wife and father in law are on the deed
and I‟m in the bankruptcy court doing the talking because I‟m on the deed. Can I be the
speaker to ask the question? Caller: file and amicus curae brief, friend of the court, and
you are coming in as a 3rd party intervener.

If it isn‟t the original wet ink signature it is a masterful forgery. There is only one
signature and that is on the original.

Caller: the note being destroyed; someone on one of our groups talked about the
definition of destroyed or lost. If the note was scrutinized, it fits under the definition of
destroyed. I just sent a QWR to our mortgage companies and they sent copies of the
note. One said it was a certified copy, but the certification was the same guy who was at
closing, so it wasn‟t the original wet ink signature. Within 10 days if they don‟t get back
to us, our next step is to file suit in federal court for fraud.

Caller: a lot of people are getting slammed in proceedings. I suggest that you do a FOIA
request to the servicer or whoever is bringing about the foreclosure; where is there their
position in the chain of command in the holder of the note. Address it notice to principal
is notice to agent and notice to agent is notice to principal and they can‟t say you have
contacted the wrong party if they don‟t disclose this they have no standing. The
attorneys look on a site where someone is having trouble collecting a debt and they go to
the party to try to help them.

Caller: why does a private entity have to respond to the FOIA? Answer: if they are
bringing the suit they have to show standing. You ask if they purchased the debt or if
they are an attorney for Wells Fargo, Deutsche bank, you want to demand a copy of his
retainer from the company if they claim they are a representative of the company
Banks are an extention of the government and all their rules fall under statute. They must
prove agency, not state agency.

Caller: the bank is not going to tell you they are an agency of the government; try the
privacy act. Other suggestion is to get this in a deposition.

Rodney said they take the note, they alter it with the stamp with pay to the order of, they
monetize and securitize it. You have trustees at the servicing company and they are the

ones who go after you. If you go to the county recorder you can find out if it was
assigned to them in a foreclosure process. If it is not assigned to them they do not have
standing. They are all just waiting for you to get a new loan. They all want the

Break at 9:05 MST returned 9:07
Roger: Many courts do not listen to the law because they don‟t have to. As you know
when I went to the FBI and they asked me how long has this been going on? For 77
years. They said a lot of people have been asleep or a supporting liability. There have to
be attorneys who recognized what we found. This has been something presented to the
FBI on Nov 30, 2009 with certified copies in the court and witnesses. It explains that any
documentation that is a duplicate and the same size as the original is counterfeiting and I
requested that Kathy Wilcox, clerk of the court (Ohio) and now you see all the
documents are recorder size when they weren‟t before.

Dave: it is the law in the FBI document. There‟s a lot of information in there. From an
email from a man suing the mortgage company who is trying to dismiss and the judge
found merit for the case to go forward. It was judge Boyko out of Ohio who dismissed
14 cases when the lender didn‟t have the original promissory note. These are in that FBI
document. Email me at put FBI docs in the subject line
and I will forward the zip file. Be sure to read „where does the fraud begin.‟
Roger: the supreme court in Ohio ruled on that and it‟s Wells Fargo vs Jordan.

Caller: I‟m in Ohio, and Ohio supreme court denied that they go in and re-litigate that.
Roger: I haven‟t followed up on that. Please explain. Caller: the Wells Fargo vs Jordan
still stands because the supreme court won‟t accept it to be heard. They are attempting in
these courts and appeals courts when the Boyko and Rose cases are brought in, they say
the note was signed before the case was brought in. the vice president said the bank held
or owned the note; the appeals court awarded it to the bank because of the vice president
affidavit. Caller: my case is in the appeals process. The MERS argument….read and
understand the definition of securitization. MERS cannot assign a note or mortgage, they
are just a recording organization. Caller: the affidavit is hearsay because you cannot
cross examine it and you have to object to it or it will stand.

Caller: object to all affidavits. Roger: fraud has no statute of limitations. At any time
you can bring up whoever had custody and control … 18-474 (?) anyone who has
custody and control, if it is not an original, they have committed fraud. If you ask where
is this or that and they can‟t answer, it‟s fraud. Melendez vs. Mass.—the plaintiff, the
injured party has to be in the court. I haven‟t seen Mr. Citibank yet. Melendez states
you must have the person who was in custody of the wet ink signature so they can be
questioned to the time line, and if it was securitized. They can‟t brings someone in who
will say that they got 10 times from the federal reserve…go to the Walker Todd affidavit.
There‟s your smoking gun.

Dave: Walker Todd Affidavit, I will tell you I have 2 court certified copies of that
affidavit and Roger has one, that he got from Hoagland County in Detroit area with their
stamp on it.
Caller: you enter an unconsciounable contract with the bank, the terms weren‟t
understood and no bank agent put his signature on the contract, making it a unilateral
contract. It is worse in a deed of trust and they are not trusts, but people gave up their
due process without knowing it, a unilateral contract to be valid must have consideration
and in the case of mortgages there was no consideration from the bank.

Question: how does a corporation make a contract. Caller: what happens you are
representing your own corporation and they have an agent representing them. You are
acting as a representative of the trust.. the bank is a person as per 1861, or as clarified by
Rod Class, it‟s 1899. The US under Delaware code title 8 chapter 6 sect 617.

Caller: my mortgage, I‟m 2 months behind and there‟s no bankruptcy yet, but I have 3rd
party creditor request for payment. What would you do now, besides an AFV.

Caller: there‟s something that has not been exposed and that‟s the term re-aging. For
those of you who don‟t understand it, look in the federal register volume 65 no. 113, date
is Monday June 12, 2000 notices. It‟s on page 36903. Re-aging was a process that was
put on the books between the FDIC and the mortgage bankers and they knew there would
be some problems. The re-aging, if you want to keep the property, you have to qualify.
If you are upside down in a loan, without any damage to you and your credit, the bank
can have it reappraised and do a charge off on the difference and removed from your
principal and pay the market value of it. If you have 200K loan and the house is now
100K, you can do re-aging.

Caller: if you do this, you are acquiesced to their fraud. 1st Caller: to go thru re-aging
they have to prove they are the party in interest.

NACA is a government program and they do/do not ? do the re-aging. This is Christian
Walters at and put that into your browser directly. You need to
express the trust and he has a lot of information about mortgages on there. Caller: I will
complete mine on the 15th of this month and if the bank doesn‟t zero out the debt, the
judge will. There‟s an audio link and he is one of the foremost authorities in trust as far
as how it is used in commerce. Most people are using trust for asset protection.
Christian is showing you how to use trust in commerce. It‟s in HJR192 and forward that
everything we are dealing with in commerce is in trust.
You may have to explain this to a judge.

Caller: the bank was coming after someone and the defendant was claiming it was a
fraud. The judge said the prosecuting attorney needed to take it to probate. If you have
expressed the trust, …. Other caller, most deed of trusts have irrevocable provisions in
them. Every deed of trust is illegal…took rights and gave nothing in return. That makes
the deed of trust illegal on its face. You are waiving your rights to court without even
knowing it. There are 5 parameters that make for a lawful process. Obermyer Co INC of

Ohio vs Frick Co. volume 405 US 174, 1972, US Supreme court sets up what are legal
and illegal. Cognovit is a form of judgment. A confession of judgment voluntarily,
knowingly waived their rights with full awareness when the agreement had bargaining
power and is not a contract of adhesion, the cognovit provision paid for adequate
consideration and it was a product of negotiation and the maker is not ___________
under state law. One more element and every deed of trust state violates all 5 elements.

9:36 MST. None of the people signed the documents knowingly waived their due
process rights and usually there are no attorneys involved. in all 5 points these are illegal
cognovit notes. You are working for the will of the trustor and he is against you and
they are not going according to trust law. They are hiding. These trusts were used for
deceit to shift the obligation of law to the injured party (you and I). Under Calif probate
code all the trust laws … 15407 Calif probate code.

Dave: is Dale on here from Florida, a retired judge. Banks only loan profits of their
banks to the shareholders. If someone is in business they should make a profit, but there
is the term unconsciounable which is outside the norm of what is practical and reasonable
and out of what should be allowed. Making 4 times the amount of the mortgage note you
signed would fall there. Title 12, sect 83 says they cannot loan the bank assets. This is
also verified in Walker Todd affidavit.

Caller: banks start off selling the shares, put that at the federal reserve bank and from day
one they have 9 times that amount. Every time they get a signed security they get 9 times
and one goes to the signor.

Lyn: how do we deal with credit unions? If the home is financed by the credit union are
they under the same guidelines? Yes, the same as the bank. The credit union gives you
FRNs when you make a withdrawal. Now these FRNs say federal reserve system, not
federal reserve bank. The people who financed are being told the credit union is holding
the note. They still fractionalize those deposit. If they say they have the original, have
they shown it to you? In one case the individual is on the board of directors. The
common way is to pull the wool over the eyes of the board members. Read Judge Boyko
out of Cleveland, Ohio. Walker Todd is from Shagrin Falls, Ohio, same area. They are
both attorneys in the same bar association. Both of these guys are characters. Boyko is
very by the book. When the information was brought to the attention to these people they
had a decision to make. When you are appointed to judgeship it is for life and you don‟t
want to get kicked off the bench. There were people in the wings in Ohio that could bring
problems. Boyko told the attorneys for Deutsche Bank to bring the originals and not
certified copy of the original. If given the opportunity when given the job, they will take
a long look. Boyko is judge in „federal‟ court in Cleveland.

Caller: look at the footnotes of Boyko‟s decision; there‟s something that is extremely
noteworthy. He states they have been collecting the interest on it and they don‟t have the
note and can‟t produce the note. Where is the note, who‟s collecting it. “In
jurisdictional burden, the institutions seem to adopt the attitude since they have done this
for so long unchallenged this is legal compliance……….the court will illustrate in simple

terms its decision………” the footnote area is on the last page. Email Dave and he will
send it to you. Throughout the order are symbols and they relate to the footnotes on the
last page. Stopped at 9:52
1819-1959…RICO statutes…9:56 if you put in a 1099 into the IRS. There will be 5
million new foreclosures this year.
Dave: if we get restore America the foreclosures will be up. We are not talking about
Obama, who is just a front man for the bankers.
Caller: 13 of these cases went into foreclosure, that were litigated in Boyko‟s court.
Caller: only 1 brought this to Boyko‟s attention; the other 13 left the keys in the house.

Rule 9a FRCP defines how the banks have to operate in foreclosure; what they lawyers
say if hearsay.

NOTE FROM NOTE TAKER: It would be helpful on these calls if people would
identify themselves with a first name


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