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					                CALIFORNIA ENERGY EFFICIENCY STRATEGIC PLAN WORKSHOP
                          SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS COMPANY
                            AND SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON
                                FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 2008

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS, TAKEN AT 555 WEST FIFTH STREET, CONFERENCE ROOM 02-C, LOS
ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, COMMENCING AT 10:02 A.M., FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 2008

                                         ATTENDEES

PANEL MEMBERS:
DAVID NEMTZOW, MODERATOR, DAVID.NEMTZOW@SCE.COM
MARK GAINES, SDG&E/SCGC, MGAINES@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
ZIYAD AWAD, MODERATOR, ZIYAD.AWAD@SCE.COM
DON ARAMBULA, SCE, DON.ARAMBULA@SCE.COM
ATHENA BESA, SDG&E, ABESA@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
BILL MILLER, PG&E, WCM2@PGE.COM

STAFF;
JASON LAWRENCE, ADVANCED MEDIA WORKS (WEBCASTING)
KAYE WEISS, EVENT INSPIRATIONS (EVENT COORDINATOR)

AUDIENCE MEMBERS;
ELLE ABADAR, SCGC, EABADAR@SEPRAMUTILITIES.COM
GREG ANDER, SCE, GREGG.ANDER@SCE.COM
TOM ANTONUCCI, SCE, TOM.ANTONUCCI@SCE.COM
HARVEY BRINGAS, SCGC, HBRINGAS@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
RANDY BRITT, LOS ANGELES UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT, RANDY.BRITT@LAUSD.NET
AARON BURDICK, ICF INTERNATIONAL, ABURDICK@ICFI.COM
ALYSSA CHERRY, SCE, CHERRY.ALYSSA@SCE.COM
CHERYL COLLART, VENTURA COUNTY REGIONAL ENERGY ALLIANCE CHERYL.COLLART@VENTURA.ORG
KARIN CORFEE, KEMA, KAREN.CORFEE@KEMA.COM
FRAN CURL, SCE, FRAN.CURL@SCE.COM
RODNEY DAVIS, SCGC, RDAVIS@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
KECIA DAVISON, CSG, KECIA.DAVISON@CSGRP.COM
LANCE DE LAURA, SCGC, LDELAURA@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
THOMAS ECKHART, CAL-UCONS, TOM@UCONS.COM
ERIK EMBLEM, 3E INTERNATIONAL, EEMBLEM@3EINTINC.NET
BECKY ESTRELLA, SCGC, BESTRELLA@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
CATHY FOGEL, CPUC, CF1@CPUC.CA.GOV
HAZLYN FORTUNE, CPUC (NO EMAIL ADDRESS FURNISHED)
DAN FREDERICK, DANIEL FREDERICK CONSULTING SERVICES, DAN@DCFCONSERV.COM
RON GARCIA, RELIABLE ENERGY, RON@RELENERGY.COM
RANDALL HIGA, SCE, RANDALL.HIGA@SCE.COM
RICK HOBBS, SCGC, RHOBBS@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
MARSHALL HUNT, WESTERN COOLING EFFIENCY, MBHUNT@UCDAVIS.EDU
JIM HUSSEY, MARINA MECHANICAL, JHUSSEY@MARINAM.COM
NANCY JENKINS, SCE, NANCY.JENKINS@SCE.COM
LLANA JONES, QCS, INC., LLANA@QUSCA.COM
KAREN KWAN, SCGC, KWONG@SEMPRAUTLITIES.COM
ALEX LASKEY, POSITIVE ENERGY, ALEX@POSTIVEVEENERGYUSE.COM
HENRY LAU, SCE, LAUH@SCE.COM
JOHN LEDDY, U.S. WATER & POWER, JOHNCLEDDY@AOL.COM
MICHAEL LO, SCE, MICHAEL.LO@SCE.COM
JAMES LUCAS, SCGC, JLUCAS@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
PAULO MORAIS, SCGC PMORAIS@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
JOHN NEWCOMB, CAPSBC, JNEWC@CAPSBC.SBCOUNTY.COM
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ALLAN RAGO, QCS, INC., ALLAN@QCSCA.COM
CARLOS RUIZ, SCGC, CRUIZ@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
JENNIFER SARNECKI, SCAG, SARNECKIK@SCAG.CA.GOV
STEVEN SCHILLER, SHILLER CONSULTING, INC., STEVE@SCHILLER.COM
RICHARD SHAW, ASSERT, R-L-SHAW@MSN.COM
HAL SNYDER, SCGC, HSNYDER@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
FRANK SPASARO, SCGC, FSPARSARO@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
YVETTE VAZQUEZ, SDG&E/SCGC, YVAZQUEZ@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
GANESH VENKAT, SCGC, GVENKAT@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
RICHARD VILLASENOR, TELACU, RICHVILLA4@HOTMAIL.COM
PAUL WUEBBER, AQMD, PWUEBBER@AQMD.GOV
JOY YAMAGATA, SDG&E/SCGC, JYAMAGATA@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
ANDREW YUARTE, SCGC, AYUARTE@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM

TELEPHONE CONFERENCE
JERINE AHMED, SCGC, JAHMED@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
BARBARA COUGHLIN, PACIFIC CORP, BARBCOUGHLIN@PACIFICCORP.COM
BARBARA CRONIN, SDG&E, BCRONIN@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
JIM HUNT, UC BERKLEY, HUNT@CE.BERKELEY.EDU
MWIRIGI IMUNGI, THE ENERGY COALITION, MIMUNGI@ENERGYCOALITION.ORG
DAVID JACOT, SCE, DAVE.JACOT@SCE.COM
BOB JAMES, RHA, BJAMES@RHAINC.COM
PETER LLAI, CPUC, PPL@CPUC.CA.GOV
MARY ELLEN LOWREY, PIKES LOWREY, (NO E-MAIL ADDRESS FURNISHED)
ROB NEEMAN, CALIFORNIA LEAGUE OF FOOD PROCESSORS, (NO E-MAIL ADDRESS FURNISHED)
IANA REEVE, NWP SERVICES CORP., LREEVE@NWPSC.COM
KEVIN SHORE, SCGC, KSHORE@SEMPRAUTILITIES.COM
LARRY SORBIE, SCE, LARRY.SORBIE@SCE.COM
GARY WEINS (NO E-MAIL ADDRESS FURNISHED)
REGINALD WILKINS, SCE, REGINALD.WILKINS@SCE.COM
BRIAN WILLIE, NWP SERVICES CORP., BWILLIE@NWPSC.COM

                                     MEETING MINUTES
                                 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
                            FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 2008; 10:02 A.M.


MR. LAWRENCE: JUST A FEW HOUSEKEEPING ITEMS: IF YOU COULD, PLEASE, ALL TURN YOUR CELL
PHONES TO VIBRATE. ALSO, FOR THE AUDIENCE MEMBERS IN THE ROOM, YOU‘LL NOTICE THAT WE
HAVE PROVIDED THE PUSH-TO-TALK GOOSE-NECK MICROPHONES. THERE‘S ONE MIC LAID OUT FOR
EVERY TWO PEOPLE. THE NECKS ARE FLEXIBLE SO YOU‘LL BE ABLE TO POSITION THEM ABOUT FIVE
TO EIGHT INCHES AWAY FROM YOU WHEN YOU SPEAK. WE‘LL BE ABLE TO HEAR YOU JUST FINE. TO
ACTIVATE THE MIC, YOU JUST PUSH AND HOLD THE BUTTON THAT SAYS ―PUSH.‖ YOU‘LL SEE A
GREEN LIGHT COME ON, AND WHEN YOU‘RE DONE, JUST RELEASE, AND THAT‘S IT. FOR THOSE OF
YOU ON THE CALL-IN WEB CONFERENCE, PLEASE MUTE YOUR PHONES UNLESS YOU‘RE ACTIVELY
SPEAKING. IT WILL HELP US KEEP THE PHONE LINE CLEAN FOR EVERYONE. AND WE DO HAVE A
STENOGRAPHER IN THE ROOM TODAY TAKING A TRANSCRIPT, SO PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME
WHENEVER YOU SPEAK; OTHERWISE, SHE‘LL CHIME IN AND REMIND YOU. AS WE DO HAVE
OVERFLOW TODAY, I SEE THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF SOME OF THE
SEATS THAT WE HAVE IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM. AND WE DO HAVE TWO WIRELESS HANDHELD
MICROPHONES, ONE IN THE BACK LEFT AND ONE IN THE BACK RIGHT, SO WE‘LL ASK YOU TO USE
THOSE MICROPHONES IF YOU ARE GOING TO SPEAK. WE‘LL BE GETTING STARTED IN JUST ABOUT
ONE MINUTE HERE; SO THANK YOU TO EVERYONE.


MR. GAINES: GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. I‘M MARK GAINES, DIRECTOR OF CUSTOMER PROGRAMS
HERE AT SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS COMPANY. AND I APPRECIATE EVERYONE‘S ATTENDANCE AT
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THE SECOND IN A SERIES OF THREE WORKSHOPS WE‘RE HOLDING ON THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY
DRAFT STRATEGIC PLAN. WE HELD OUR FIRST ONE YESTERDAY IN SAN DIEGO. I WAS ALSO THERE,
SO I‘VE BEEN FEELING LIKE I‘M LIVING GROUND HOG DAY, BUT IT WAS A VERY GOOD EVENT
YESTERDAY. HOPEFULLY, WE‘LL HAVE EQUAL SUCCESS TODAY IN GETTING FEEDBACK. I‘D LIKE TO
START OFF WITH A COUPLE OF KEY INTRODUCTIONS. WE‘VE GOT CATHY FOGEL WITH US TODAY.
SHE‘S IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM. SHE IS THE PROJECT MANAGER FROM THE PUC THAT HAS
DRIVEN US FORWARD ON THIS PROJECT, AND THEY‘VE DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB. WE ALSO HAVE
HAZLYN FORTUNE. SHE‘S THE ADVISOR TO COMMISSIONER GRUENEICH, WHO IS THE CPUC
COMMISSIONER OVER THE PU—THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS; SO WE APPRECIATE HER
ATTENDANCE HERE ALSO TODAY. WE‘LL START, I THINK—WE DID THIS YESTERDAY PARTWAY
THROUGH THE DAY—BUT LET‘S START OFF WITH DOING QUICK INTRODUCTIONS, GO AROUND THE
ROOM JUST SO EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO IS HERE, AND THEN WE‘LL GET TO PEOPLE ON THE
PHONE. SO WE‘LL START OVER HERE TO MY RIGHT, JUST A QUICK NAME AND AFFILIATION.

MS. CHERRY: ALYSSA CHERRY, SCE.


MR. LUCAS: JIM LUCAS, SO CAL GAS.


MR. DAVIS: RODNEY DAVIS, SO CAL GAS.


MR. HUNT: MARSHALL HUNT, WESTERN COOLING EFFICIENCY CENTER, UC DAVIS.


MR. NEWCOMB: JOHN NEWCOMB, COMMUNITY ACTION PARTNERSHIP SAN BERNARDINO.


MR. VILLASENOR: RICHARD VILLASENOR WITH TELACU.


MR. GARCIA: RON GARCIA WITH RELIABLE ENERGY.


MR. ANDER: GREG ANDER, EDISON.


MS. FORTUNE: HAZLYN FORTUNE, PUC.


MS. COLLART: CHERYL COLLART, VENTURA COUNTY REGIONAL ENERGY ALLIANCE.


MR. RUIZ: CARLOS RUIZ, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS.


MR. VENKAT: GANESH VENKAT, SEMPRA ENERGY.


MR. BURDICK: AARON BURDICK, ICF INTERNATIONAL.


MS. KWAN: KAREN KWAN, SO CAL GAS.


MR. ECKHART: TOM ECKHART, UCONS.

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MS. JENKINS: NANCY NENKINS, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON.


MR. LO: MICHAEL LO, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON.


MR. WUEBBER: PAUL WUEBBER, SOUTH COAST AIR QUALITY MANAGEMENT DISTRICT.


MR. FREDERICK: DAN—EXCUSE ME—DAN FREDERICK. I‘M A CONSULTANT IN THE PLANNING
PROCESS.


MR. SCHILLER: HI. THIS IS STEVE SCHILLER. I‘M ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE CONSULTANTS WORKING
FOR THE UTILITIES.


MR. HIGA: RANDALL HIGA, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON.


MR. DE LAURA: LANCE DE LAURA, SOUTHERN—SO CAL GAS/SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON.


MR. BRITT: RANDY—OOPS—RANDY BRITT, LOS ANGELES UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT.


MR. EMBLEM: ERIK EMBLEM. I‘M A PRIVATE CONSULTANT WORKING FOR THE CALIFORNIA SHEET
METAL WORKERS AND THE CALIFORNIA SMAC CONTRACTORS.


MR. HUSSEY: JIM HUSSEY. I‘M A CONTRACTOR AND MEMBER OF THE SHEET METAL CONTRACTORS
ASSOCIATION.


MS. CURL: FRAN CURL, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON.


MR. HOBBS: RICK—RICK HOBBS, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS.


MS. VAZQUEZ: YVETTE VAZQUEZ, SAN DIEGO GAS & ELECTRIC AND SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS
COMPANY.


MS. YAMAGATA: JOY—JOY YAMAGATA, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS COMPANY.


MS. SPASARO: FRANK SPASARO, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS/SDG&E.


MR. MORAIS: PAUL MORAIS, SO CAL GAS.


MS. FOGEL: CATHY FOGEL, PUC.



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MS. ESTRELLA: BECKY ESTRELLA, SO CAL GAS.


MR. BRINGAS: HARVEY BRINGAS, SO CAL GAS.


MR. GAINES: LET‘S TRY THE PEOPLE ON THE PHONE.


MR. HUNT: JIM HUNT, BAKTA.


MR. WILLIE: YEAH, BRIAN WILLIE WITH THE NATIONAL SUBMETERING AND UTILITY ALLOCATION
ASSOCIATION.


MR. SOBEY: LARRY SOBEY, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON.


MS. REEVE: LANE REEVE, NATIONAL WATER & POWER.


MS. COUGHLIN: BARBARA COUGHLIN, PACIFIC CORP.


MS. CRONIN: BARBARA CRONIN, SDG&E.

MS. LOWREY: MARY ELLEN LOWREY, PIKES LOWREY


MR. WILKINS: REGGIE WILKINS, EDISON.


MR. NEEMAN: ROB NEEMAN, CALIFORNIA LEAGUE OF FOOD PROCESSORS.


MR. LI: PETER LI, ENERGY DIVISION.


MR. GAINES: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. A QUICK SAFETY MESSAGE FOR THOSE IN THE
ROOM HERE. IF WE DO HAVE TO EVACUATE, THERE IS AN EXIT. AS YOU DOWN THE HALLWAY
TOWARDS THE ELEVATOR, IT‘S ON YOUR RIGHT-HAND SIDE. WE‘LL HAVE TO GO DOWN TWO FLOORS
TO THE MEZZANINE LEVEL, AND THEN THERE‘LL BE A DOOR OUT TO THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING.
SO LET‘S KEEP THAT IN MIND IF SOMETHING DOES HAPPEN. ALL RIGHT. OUR INTENT TODAY IS TO
GET AS MUCH FEEDBACK AS POSSIBLE. WE‘D LIKE TO MINIMIZE THE AMOUNT OF TALKING WE‘RE
DOING. OUR ASSUMPTION IS WE‘VE SENT OUT INFORMATION TO EVERYONE FAR IN ADVANCE.
THERE—MOST OF YOU PROBABLY IN THE ROOM HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS ALL ALONG.
SO WE DON‘T WANT TO SPEND A WHOLE LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT THE DETAILS OF THE DRAFT
PLAN, UNLESS YOU REQUEST THAT. IF THERE IS SOMEONE THAT DOES LIKE SOME BACKGROUND,
WE‘D CERTAINLY LIKE TO DO THAT.BUT THE SPEAKERS HERE TODAY WILL GO THROUGH EACH
SEGMENT, AND WE‘LL TRY TO MINIMIZE OUR DISCUSSION. WE‘LL THROW UP—HOPEFULLY, WE‘LL
STICK TO THROWING UP THE KEY STRATEGIES THAT WE‘RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT AND OPEN UP
FOR COMMENTS OR REQUESTS FOR FURTHER CLARIFICATION AND GO THAT ROUTE, RATHER THAN
US READING EVERY SLIDE. I THINK THAT WILL GET US THROUGH THIS QUICKER. ALL RIGHT. I‘VE
GOT A FEW INTRODUCTORY SLIDES HERE I‘LL TRY TO GO THROUGH QUICKLY MYSELF, JUST TO GIVE
YOU SOME BACKGROUND. AS IT DOES SAY, WE‘RE IN THE SECOND WORKSHOP HERE IN SAN DIEGO,
                          TH
AND THERE‘S ONE ON THE 27 IN SAN FRANCISCO. THIS SLIDE IS, ON THE TOP, JUST A TIMEFRAME
OF WHERE WE‘VE BEEN AND WHERE WE‘RE GOING IN TERMS OF THE WORKSHOPS THAT WE‘VE
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HELD TO GET TO THIS POINT, AND THEN MOVING FORWARD WITH SUBMITTING THE DRAFTS AND THE
FINAL PROPOSALS IN MAY. ON THE BOTTOM IS A REPRESENTATION OF THE SEGMENTS AND THE
CROSS-CUTTING ACTIVITIES THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE SEGMENTS, MOVING TOWARDS
THE DRAFT PLAN, THE WORKSHOPS, AND THEN FINALLY THE FINAL STRATEGIC PLAN.
BACKGROUND, THE DRIVERS FOR THIS.STATE POLICY, OBVIOUSLY, STARTING OFF WITH THE
ENERGY ACTION PLAN AND MOVING THROUGH LEGISLATION THAT‘S PROMOTING ENERGY
EFFICIENCY IN CALIFORNIA,WANTING US TO DO ALL COST EFFECTIVE ENERGYEFFICIENCY, AS WELL
AS INTEGRATING ALL OF THEPROGRAMS THAT THEY—THAT WE IMPLEMENT IN CALIFORNIA DEALING
WITH RENEWABLES AS WELL AS DEMAND RESPONSE, AND THEN FINALLY THE DECISION THAT—THAT
ASKS US TO DO THIS STRATEGIC PLAN, WHICH IS AT THE BOTTOM. THE INTENT, OBVIOUSLY, IS WE
HAVE THREE-YEAR PROGRAM CYCLES THAT WE LOOK FOR SHORT-TERM GOALS UNDER, BUT
THERE‘S ALSO A LOT OF BENEFITS TO LOOKING 15, 20 YEARS OUT TO MAKE SURE WE‘RE MOVING
TOWARDS THE GREATER GOAL. ALL THE INFORMATION THAT WE‘RE DISCUSSING HERE TODAY
THAT‘S BEEN INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS OF DEVELOPING THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY STRATEGIC
PLAN IS AVAILABLE ON CALIFORNIAENERGYEFFICIENCY.COM.          SO IF YOU‘RE LOOKING FOR
REFERENCE MATERIAL, THAT‘S A GOOD PLACE TO KEEP IT IF YOU DON‘T WANT TO LUG AROUND ALL
800 PAGES OR WHATEVER WE ENDED UP WITH. OUR OBJECTIVE IN THE LONG RUN IS TO MAKE
ENERGY EFFICIENCY BUSINESS AS USUAL IN CALIFORNIA, AND THERE‘S SEVERAL ACTIVITIES THAT
WE‘RE DOING TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN THAT ARE REFLECTED IN THIS PLAN LISTED HERE:
―INTEGRATION,‖ ―INNOVATION,‖ ―COLLABORATION,‖ ―DIRECTIONAL,‖ AND ―ASPIRATIONAL.‖ THE LAST
ONE, ―ASPIRATIONAL,‖ WE CERTAINLY HAVE ―BIG BOLD‖ STRATEGIES IDENTIFIED IN THE STRATEGIC
PLAN. OUR VIEW AT THIS POINT IS THAT THOSE ARE ASPIRATIONAL IN NATURE. WE‘LL DO
EVERYTHING WE CAN TO GET THERE, BUT SINCE WE DON‘T HAVE ALL THE TECHNOLOGICAL
ANSWERS TODAY, THEY SHOULDN‘T BE VIEWED AS HARD-AND-FIRM GOALS. WE‘LL SEE HOW FAR
WE CAN PUSH THAT. AS I MENTIONED, TODAY‘S ACTIVITIES, WE‘LL GO THROUGH THE PLAN BY
STRATEGIES AND THEN GET INTO CROSS-CUTTING SECTIONS, AND LOOKING FOR YOUR COMMENTS.
THAT‘S THE MAIN INTENT OF THIS EFFORT. LOTS OF STRATEGIES INVOLVED IN THE STRATEGIC
PLAN, AND—AND THESE WILL BE DISCUSSED IN THE CROSS-CUTTING EFFORTS. TRADITIONAL
PROGRAMS ARE INCENTIVES. WE HAVE CODES AND STANDARDS. WE HAVE AN EDUCATION AND
OUTREACH EFFORT TODAY. WE‘RE LOOKING TO EXPAND THAT IN THE FUTURE. A LOT OF THE
EFFORTS ARE LOOKING TO BE MARKET TRANSFORMATIONAL. CERTAINLY, PRICE—PRICE & RATE
DESIGN HELP US IMPROVE ENERGY EFFICIENCY, BUT WE‘RE GOING TO BE DEPENDING HEAVILY ON
EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES TO GET US WHERE WANT IN THE LONG RUN. OUR BEACH BALL
PRESENTATION, HERE. I DON‘T WANT TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON IT. THE INTENT HERE IS TO
SHOW THAT THE INPUTS TO THE STRATEGIC PLAN COME FROM BOTH THE CPUC AND THE KEY
STAKEHOLDERS. THE STRATEGIC PLAN IS BUILT ALONG VARIOUS SEGMENTS AND MARKETS AND
THEN ALSO RELYING ON, IN THE LONG RUN, ANALYSIS AND RESEARCH TO GET US TECHNOLOGIES
WE NEED IN THE FUTURE. SO THIS IS A LIVING DOCUMENT. WE ARE LOOKING FOR COMMENTS AT
THE MOMENT. WE WILL CONTINUE TO LOOK FOR COMMENTS. WE‘LL REVISIT THIS. OUR PLAN IS TO
REVISIT IT ON AN ANNUAL BASIS, AT LEAST AT A HIGH LEVEL AND PROBABLY REVISIT IT ON A MORE
DETAILED LEVEL ON A THREE-YEAR BASIS WITH OUR PROGRAM PLANNING PROCESS. WE‘RE ALSO
HAVING DISCUSSIONS OF FORMING A CALIFORNIA ENERGY EFFICIENCY ALLIANCE. INTENT WITH
THIS IS TO GATHER INPUT FROM STAKEHOLDERS OUTSIDE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. THIS
WOULD BE TO LOOK FOR REGIONAL INPUT AS WELL AS NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL, CREATE
THAT FORUM AND MAKE SURE THAT WE‘RE TAKING THAT INPUT INTO THE DEVELOPMENT OF
CALIFORNIA‘S PROGRAMS. TYPICALLY FIND THAT MOST PEOPLE ABSORB OUR INFORMATION
RATHER THAN OTHER WAY, BUT WE‘LL ALWAYS LOOK FOR THAT INPUT. OUR VISION: CALIFORNIA
WILL HAVE A LONG-TERM ENERGY EFFICIENCY PLANNING PROCESS THAT INCLUDES ALL PRINCIPAL
STAKEHOLDERS, DEFINES STRATEGIES AND GOALS SUPPORTED BY EACH STAKEHOLDER‘S SHORT,
MEDIUM AND LONG-TERM PLANS AND ACTIONS. SO WE‘RE TRYING TO MEET THAT VISION WITH THE
PLAN HERE TODAY, AND WITH YOUR INPUT, CERTAINLY AS A PRINCIPAL STAKEHOLDER. A FEW
DATES HERE: THE WORKSHOPS LISTED. THE COMMENTS FOR OUR ‗09 TO ‗11 PORTFOLIO IS LISTED
AS MARCH 17TH. WE WILL HAVE WORKSHOPS ON THOSE BEFORE THOSE IN APRIL, SO IT‘S STILL TO
BE SCHEDULED. COMMENTS ON THE FIRST STRATEGIC PLAN, THE DRAFT PLAN WE HAVE HERE
TODAY, DUE IN APRIL AND THEN BOTH WILL BE PUBLISHED IN MAY, MAY 15TH. WE‘VE GOT A LOT OF
WORK AHEAD OF US BEFORE WE GET THERE. THAT‘S THE END OF MY SEGMENT HERE. I WILL TURN
THIS OFF TO DAVID NEMTZOW. HE‘S GOING TO BE OUR MODERATOR FOR TODAY. AND AGAIN, I


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APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR ATTENDANCE, AND HOPEFULLY WE‘LL HAVE A VERY PRODUCTIVE
DISCUSSION. THANK YOU.


MR. NEMTZOW: THANKS VERY MUCH, MARK. THE—OUR STRUCTURE FOR TODAY IS—IS QUITE
SIMPLE. THE—THE MOST IMPORTANT GOAL IS WHAT MARK SAID. YOU‘LL HEAR US SAY IT AGAIN.
WE‘RE—THIS IS TO GET YOUR INPUT, THOSE WHO ARE HERE, THOSE WHO ARE ON THE PHONE, AND
THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO GIVE INPUT. YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS NOW. YOU CAN MAKE
SPEECHES. YOU CAN MAKE SPEECHES IN THE FORM OF A QUESTION, WHICH IS PRETTY TYPICAL.
YOU CAN SUBMIT COMMENTS. AND I WON‘T ASK YOU TO MEMORIZE THE E-MAIL ADDRESS TO SEND
COMMENTS, BUT I WILL ASK YOU TO MEMORIZE WHERE YOU CAN GET ALL THE DOCUMENTS, SUBMIT
COMMENTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE: WWW.CALIFORNIAENERGYEFFICIENCY—ONE WORD—DOT
COM. THAT‘S VERY EASY. AND YOU CAN DOWNLOAD ALL THE MATERIALS. LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT
THE MATERIALS. YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU OUR HARD COPY OF THE DRAFT STRATEGIC PLAN.
YOU PROBABLY HAVE LOOKED AT THAT. THAT‘S ON THAT SITE. BUT ALSO ON THAT SITE—AND
THAT‘S ROUGHLY JUST UNDER A HUNDRED PAGES—THAT IS THE DRAFT THAT WAS DRAFTED BY THE
INVESTOR-OWNED UTILITIES AS PART OF THE REQUIREMENT AND TO PUT FORWARD, AND THAT WILL
GET FINALIZED OVER THE COMING MONTHS. ALSO ON THAT HOME PAGE, VERY IMPORTANT, ARE
APPENDICES, 400 PAGES‘ WORTH OF REPORTS FROM THE INDIVIDUAL WORKING GROUPS THAT THE
CONVENERS AND OTHER KEY FOLKS WROTE UP, AND I—LOOKING AROUND THE ROOM, I SEE MANY
OF YOU PARTICIPATED IN THOSE WORKING GROUPS SO YOU KNOW ALL ABOUT THAT. SO THOSE
REPORTS ARE THERE. THEY‘RE VERY USEFUL. THEY‘RE MORE DETAILED AND THERE‘S A—YOU
SHOULD BE AWARE, THOSE REPORTS WERE SUBMITTED BY THE CONVENERS. THE CONVENERS
HAD THE FINAL PEN ON THOSE. THIS REPORT WAS SUBMITTED BY THE INVESTOR-OWNED UTILITIES,
SO IT DRAWS VERY HEAVILY FROM THAT, BUT THERE ARE SOME DIFFERENCES, BOTH IN LENGTH
AND DETAIL AND ALSO SOME SUBSTANTIVE DIFFERENCES. SO TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE 400 PAGES,
OR CERTAINLY THE PARTS THAT YOU CARE ABOUT, AS THIS PROCESS GOES ON. AND I GUESS,
FINALLY, I WANT TO SAY, BEFORE I TURN TO OUR SPEAKERS TODAY, JUST AGAIN BOTH TO THANK
YOU AND TO RECOGNIZE THE TREMENDOUS INPUT THAT WENT INTO THIS. WE HAD 1100 PEOPLE
PARTICIPATE IN THE DIFFERENT MEETINGS, THE DIFFERENT TRACKS THAT WERE HELD. THERE
WERE 14 DIFFERENT TRACKS ALL TOGETHER—AND THOSE ARE REPRESENTED IN THE CHAPTERS
HERE—AND THERE WERE 36 WORKING GROUP MEETINGS AS WELL AS—WE DON‘T EVEN KNOW HOW
MANY CONFERENCE CALLS, ET CETERA, AND BILATERAL. SO THAT‘S A TREMENDOUS EFFORT. WE
THANK YOU FOR THAT. WE NEED EVEN MORE, AND SO TODAY WE‘RE GOING TO GO THROUGH
THOSE DIFFERENT TRACKS. FIRST WE‘RE GOING TO HEAR ABOUT THE—AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE
AGENDA, THE FOUR—ABOUT THE FOUR MAJOR CONSUMING SECTORS: RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL,
INDUSTRIAL, AND AGRICULTURE. AND SOME OF THOSE ISSUES YOU WILL HEAR WILL BE SPECIFIC TO
THOSE SECTORS; SOME WILL BE GENERIC. BUT THEN WE‘RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT— WE‘RE GOING
TO GO THROUGH EIGHT CROSS-CUTTING ISSUES. AND WITHIN THOSE EIGHT INCLUDES—WELL,
THINGS THAT CUT ACROSS THOSE, WHETHER THEY‘RE ISSUES LIKE MARKETING OR CONSUMING
AREAS LIKE HVAC OR SPECIAL GROUPS, LIKE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE A SPECIAL ROLE HERE.
AND YOU‘LL HEAR IT BOTH—IN A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT WE‘RE TRYING TO KEEP THE
SPECIFIC SECTORAL ISSUES IN       THOSE SECTORAL CHAPTERS AND THEN THE GENERIC,
OVERARCHING ISSUES IN THOSE CROSS-CUTTING CHAPTERS. AND YOU‘LL TELL US IF WE GOT IT
RIGHT OR NOT. AND THEN FINALLY, WE‘LL TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE EFFICIENCY POLICY RULES
GOVERN—THAT THE CPUC GOVERNS THAT WILL AFFECT THE UTILITIES‘ ABILITY TO DO THIS PLAN.
THE WAY WE‘RE ORGANIZING IT, WITH EACH SPEAKER WE‘RE ASKING YOU TO HEAR THEM OUT.
THEY‘LL GO THROUGH THEIR SLIDES BRIEFLY. YOU‘VE PROBABLY HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THEM
AND THEN ASK QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS. IF YOU NEED TO INTERRUPT FOR CLARIFICATION,
PLEASE DO; BUT YOU DON‘T HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL 1:45. WE WILL STAY TILL THE END OF DAY AND
WE‘LL—WE‘RE HERE ALL DAY FOR AS MANY QUESTIONS AS YOU HAVE, BUT WE FIND—AND
YESTERDAY WE FOUND IN SAN DIEGO—THE MOST PRODUCTIVE WAY IS TOPIC, QUESTIONS AND
COMMENTS, NEXT TOPIC, ET CETERA; SO LET‘S TRY THAT. SO WITH THAT SAID, LET‘S START WITH
RESIDENTIAL. I DON‘T HAVE TO TELL ANYBODY IN THIS—WE ALREADY HAVE A QUESTION. THAT‘S
THE SPIRIT WE LIKE TO SEE TODAY. YES, SIR. AND IF EVERYBODY CAN PLEASE REIDENTIFY
THEMSELVES AND THEIR AFFILIATION.



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MR. EMBLEM: YES. ERIK EMBLEM REPRESENTING CAL SMAC AND CAL SHEET METAL. AND IT HAS
TO DO WITH THE INTRODUCTION TO THE STRATEGIC PLAN. AFTER YOUR—YOUR BEACH BALLS, IT
SAYS: ―IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THIS PLAN DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS THREE IMPORTANT
ELEMENTS OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY. THESE ARE EVALUATION, MEASUREMENT AND VERIFICATION
OF ENERGY SAVINGS; TRANSPORTATION; AND WATER-ENERGY NEXUS.‖ MY QUESTION IS THIS: IT
GOES ON TO SAY THAT THESE EITHER WERE NOT BROUGHT UP IN THE SPECIFIC WORKING GROUPS,
OR THEY ARE BEING ADDRESSED BY OTHER STATE AGENCIES.             IT‘S OUR FEELING THAT
MEASUREMENT AND VERIFICATION IS—IS A WHOLE PIECE OF THE PLAN TO—TO VALIDATE THAT THE
PLAN IS, IN FACT, WORKING IN DEVELOPING THE BASELINE. SO WOULD YOU LIKE TO COMMENT A
LITTLE BIT ABOUT OTHER STATE AGENCIES.

MR. NEMTZOW: YEAH, LET ME COMMENT. THAT—IF IT SAID ―OTHER STATE AGENCIES,‖ WHAT WE
SHOULD HAVE SAID IS ―OTHER STATE AGENCIES AND PROCEEDINGS.‖ IT‘S NOT ANOTHER STATE
AGENCY. IT‘S THE CPUC. IT IS INTEGRAL TO THIS. THERE‘S NO ARGUMENT THERE. BUT THAT HAS
OWN ITS PROCEEDING AND ITS OWN DYNAMIC. SO THAT‘S WHY IT‘S NOT HERE. BUT—BUT
ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND WILL BECOME MORE IMPORTANT
OVER TIME. DO YOU WANT TO EMBELLISH ON THAT OR...

MR. MILLER: WELL, I‘LL ADD A WORD, BUT I‘M THE RES PERSON SO I‘M NEXT UP ANYWAY.

MR. NEMTZOW: SO, YEAH, COUNT ON THAT AND— AND FEEL FREE TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT
TODAY EITHER ABOUT THE GENERIC ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR—OR A PARTICULAR TOPIC
SPECIFICALLY.

MS. BESA:    DAVID?    WHEN WE—WE GOT THAT QUESTION YESTERDAY REGARDING THE
MEASUREMENT AND VERIFICATION ASSOCIATED WITH THE STRATEGIC PLAN.
AND DEFINITELY, THERE SHOULD BE METRICS DEVELOPED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE EITHER
ACHIEVING OUR GOAL, WE‘RE ON TRACK, OR THAT THE STRATEGIC PLAN NEEDS TO BE REVISED.
AND SO WE WILL BE WORKING WITH THE ENERGY DIVISION, THE COMMISSION STAFF BECAUSE, IN—
IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY, IT IS THE COMMISSION‘S RESPONSIBILITY TO OVERSEE MEASUREMENT AND
EVALUATION. SO WE HAVEN‘T REALLY GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE WE‘VE DISCUSSED HOW IT‘S
GOING TO BE DONE, WHAT ARE WE—WHAT ARE THE METRICS THAT WE‘RE GOING TO BE
MEASURING, AND WHAT IS THE BUDGET THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT. SO I THINK WHEN DAVID—IN
THE REPORT, WHEN WE SAID WE HAD NOT HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO OVER IT, THAT‘S
CERTAINLY ONE OF THE ASPECTS THAT IS NECESSARY IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT THE STRATEGIC
PLAN IS ACTUALLY WORKING FOR CALIFORNIA.

MR. EMBLEM: JUST IN SUMMATION, I—I—I CONCUR. AND AGAIN, WE‘D LIKE TO BE ON RECORD THAT
WE FEEL THAT THAT‘S A VITAL PART OF THE PLAN AND SHOULDN‘T BE KIND OF LIKE AN APPENDAGE
TO THE PLAN BUT SHOULD BE INCORPORATED WITHIN THE PLAN.

MR. NEMTZOW: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? BILL MILLER PACIFIC GAS & ELECTRIC WILL TALK TO US
ABOUT OUR RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE RESIDENTIAL SECTOR.
BILL.

MR. MILLER: SO I‘M BILL MILLER FROM PACIFIC GAS & ELECTRIC. WE—WE END THE DAY—AND I—I
DREW THAT CARD—TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME KEY CHALLENGES. AND ONE ASPECT THAT
WASN‘T ACTUALLY COVERED BY ATHENA OR DAVE WAS THAT FOR MANY OF THE ACTIONS AND
ACTIVITIES AND STRATEGIES THAT WERE DISCUSSED IN THE PLAN, THERE WASN‘T A
CORRESPONDING METHOD TO DETERMINE WHAT THE SAVINGS WOULD BE OR WHAT THE IMPACT
WOULD BE, WHICH HAS HAMPERED SOME OTHER ASPECTS OF THE PLAN IN TERMS OF PRIORITIZING
OR SCOPING OR SCALING OR THOSE SORTS OF ISSUES. SO WE ARE CONFRONTED WITH THAT
CHALLENGE AND THAT DILEMMA. IT—THE COMMISSION TOOK UNTO ITSELF THE RESPONSIBILITY
FOR MEASUREMENT PROTOCOLS IN JANUARY 2005; SO IT‘S FOR—IT‘S FOR THAT REASON THAT
BASICALLY IT DIDN‘T SHOW UP AS A MAJOR TRACK HERE. AND WE‘VE SEEN IT ALREADY AS
SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL, AND IN DUE COURSE, I‘M SURE WE‘LL GET TO THESE THINGS.
YEAH, WE AGREE. LET ME JUST—LET ME JUST CATCH UP THE SLIDES, HERE. RESIDENTIAL. THEY

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HAVE REFERRED TO A TRACK. WE HAD A VERY RICH TRACK OF WORKSHOPS. KARIN CORFEE OF
KEMA PUT TOGETHER, I THINK, FOUR MAJOR EVENTS, REALLY, SCATTERED AROUND THE STATE.
THERE WERE OTHER SUBTEAMS. THE GROUP WAS LARGE ENOUGH, IT BROKE INTO SUBTEAMS AND,
AS A RESULT, CAME UP WITH A—A FAIRLY LARGE NUMBER OF STRATEGIES. THERE‘S ABOUT A 50-,
60-PAGE REPORT THAT SHE WROTE THAT‘S ON THE—IN THE—IN THE SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIAL,
AS WELL AS A LARGE NUMBER OF VERY INTERESTING PRESENTATIONS THAT WERE MADE ON ZERO
NET ENERGY HOMES AS THEY‘RE BEING DEVELOPED IN ROSEVILLE AND OTHER ASPECTS, YOU
KNOW, AROUND THE STATE. SO THERE‘S A LOT OF MATERIAL THERE. WE SUMMARIZED IT DOWN
INTO A VISION IN TERMS OF WHERE WE—IN TERMS OF THE END POINT FOR THE RESIDENTIAL
SECTOR IN CALIFORNIA IN 2020. WE INCLUDED A SUMMARY OF SOME CHARACTERISTICS OF THE
RESIDENTIAL SECTOR. IT‘S LARGE. IT‘S DOMINATED BY EXISTING STRUCTURES. THE STANDARDS—
CALIFORNIA STATE TITLE 24 STANDARDS—HAVE BEEN VERY EFFECTIVE AT—AT PUSHING NEW
HOMES TO BE—TO CAPTURE MOST COST- EFFECTIVE ENERGY EFFICIENCY THAT COULD BE
CAPTURED IN NEW HOMES. THERE‘S STILL SOME THAT‘S NOT INCLUDED, AND THAT‘S PART OF A—
AN ADDITIONAL FORWARD PUSH. BUT THE MAJOR CONCERN, PARTICULARLY AS IT CAME OUT OF
THE WORKSHOP PROCESS, WAS IN EXISTING STRUCTURES. AND WE ALSO SAW—AND THIS IS A
RECURRING THEME AND IT‘S BEEN CHALLENGE IN TERMS OF HOW TO ORGANIZE THIS REPORT—IS
THAT THERE—IS THAT WHILE WE WERE A RESIDENTIAL TRACK AND FOCUSED ON RESIDENTIAL
ISSUES, THE SOLUTIONS OR THE COMPONENTS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT OVERLAPPED AND
REOCCURRED IN OTHERS AS WELL. SO AT THE BOTTOM YOU‘LL SEE A LIST OF AREAS OF OVERLAP
THAT SOMETIMES SHOW UP IN COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL, AGRICULTURAL OR SOMETIMES SHOW
UP IN A CROSS-CUTTING CHAPTER ALL BY THEMSELVES AND THAT MANY OF THE MAJOR TOPICS
AROUND THAT ARE IN ITS OWN CHAPTER AS OPPOSED TO BEING INCORPORATED HERE IN THE
RESIDENTIAL SECTION ITSELF. WE REALLY SETTLED ON WHAT THE WRITING TEAM FELT WERE SORT
OF THREE MAJOR STRATEGIES TO MOVE THE STATE FORWARD, AND THEN THERE WERE SOME
ADDITIONAL STRATEGIES. AND I THINK AS WE GO FORWARD
REWRITING AND INCORPORATING COMMENTS ON THIS, WE‘RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO REFINE THE
PLAN, NOT ONLY WITH YOUR INPUT AND THEN ALSO WITH THE GUIDANCE WE GOT IN A RECENT
COMMISSION ORDER ABOUT SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION IN THE PLAN. BUT THE FIRST MAJOR
CATEGORY FOCUS WAS EXISTING WHOLE-HOUSE—HOUSE STRUCTURES. AND IT‘S—AND BASICALLY
HOW TO RAISE THE EFFICIENCY IN THE MILLIONS OF EXISTING HOMES AROUND CALIFORNIA THAT
BUILT—WERE BUILT OVER THE LAST 25, 50, 75 YEARS. AND THE—YOU KNOW, THE BASIC STRATEGIC
COMBINED A NUMBER OF FEATURES AND MAY NOT BE BEST EXPRESSED IN THAT. BUT ON THE ONE
HAND, MOST OR ESSENTIALLY ALL CURRENTLY COST-EFFECTIVE MEASURES ARE INCLUDED IN—IN
UTILITY PORTFOLIOS. SO THE ISSUE IS REALLY HOW YOU PUSH BEYOND THAT AND IN WHAT WAY
DO YOU PUSH BEYOND THAT. AND THERE‘S A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO SORT OF
CONCURRENTLY PURSUE. YOU HAVE TO SIGNAL AND PULL IN FROM THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY,
FROM THE EMERGING TECH COMMUNITY, FROM WHOEVER‘S GOT IT, THE NEXT SUCCEEDING
VINTAGES OF NEW TECHNOLOGIES. SO YOU HAVE TO SOMEHOW SIGNAL A WAY BRING THOSE IN,
BRING THOSE TO THE MARKETPLACE SO THEY‘RE AVAILABLE. THE SECOND THING THAT CAME OUT
OF SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS WAS THAT YOU BASICALLY HAVE TO EXPAND FROM THE CURRENT
SORT OF INDIVIDUAL MEASURE-BASED APPROACH TO LARGER AND LARGER COMPONENTS OF THE
HOME, EVENTUALLY TO A WHOLE HOUSE. BY THE LATTER HALF OF THIS YOU—YOU KNOW, WE‘D
EXPECT THAT YOU‘D HAVE TO BE TREATING WHOLE HOUSES AS OPPOSED TO DO A WASHING
MACHINE AT A TIME. AND THE LAST ASPECT THAT CAME UP IN A NUMBER OF WAYS IS YOU HAVE TO
INCREASINGLY    GET    CUSTOMERS      EAGER   TO   ACQUIRE    EFFICIENT  TECHNOLOGIES,
KNOWLEDGEABLE—INTERESTED, KNOWLEDGEABLE, AWARE OF THE ADVANTAGES, EXCITED ABOUT
THE PROSPECT. SO WE END UP WITH PILOT PROGRAMS, R&D, YOU KNOW, FEEDBACK LOOPS THAT
REINFORCE THAT CUSTOMER EDUCATION AND AWARENESS. AND THE DECISION TRIGGERS, WHICH
ARE REALLY THE MESSAGING GOING GO BACK OUT, THAT EXCITE CONSUMERS ABOUT GETTING
INTO MORE EFFICIENT TECHNOLOGIES. THE NEXT MAJOR CATEGORY—AND THERE‘S—THERE‘S
OVERLAP IN THESE, BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT‘S HAPPENING IN RESIDENTIAL SECTOR IN
ENERGY USE IN CALIFORNIA, WHAT YOU SEE IS THAT FOR EVERY CFL, FOR EVERY MORE EFFICIENT
DISHWASHER THAT GETS YOU AN GAIN ON EFFICIENCY, YOU‘RE GETTING A PLASMA TV PUT UP ON
THE WALL IN THE ENTERTAINMENT CENTER. SO ACROSS THE—ACROSS THE SECTOR— AND IN
OTHER AREAS AS WELL BUT PARTICULARLY HERE— WHAT YOU SEE IS A—IS A GROWING NUMBER
OF PLUG LOADS. SO GO HOME TONIGHT AND LOOK AT HOW MANY THINGS YOU‘VE GOT PLUGGED IN.
AT A MINIMUM EVERY ONE OF THEM‘S GOT A TRANSFORMER DRAWING THREE, FIVE, SEVEN VOLTS

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OR—WHERE‘S THE ENGINEER? -- WATTS. SEE? AND WHILE WE ALREADY HAVE A STANDARD TO
BRING THAT DOWN IN TERMS OF NEW ONES, YOU STILL LOOK AT THE FACT THAT YOU‘VE GOT 30, 40
OF THESE ITEMS. SO FROM THE SMALLEST TO THE LARGE-SCREEN TV, WE‘VE SEEN THIS—THIS
GROWTH IN PLUG LOADS. SO IT‘S A SIMILAR KIND OF APPROACH, BUT IT‘S A DIFFERENT SET OF
MARKET ACTORS. YOU BASICALLY WORK WITH THE PRODUCERS OF THOSE ITEMS, ENCOURAGE
THEM TO BRING THE MORE EFFICIENT ONES IN, REBATE THE MORE EFFICIENT ONES, EDUCATE
CONSUMERS TO SEEK OUT THE MORE EFFICIENT ONES, AND AGAIN, GO THROUGH A DEVELOPMENT
PATH, BECAUSE I HAVEN‘T HEARD ANYONE—IT‘S NOT PART OF THE STRATEGY TO DENY
PEOPLE TELEVISIONS LARGER THAN 24 INCHES. OKAY? SO IT‘S RATHER HOW CAN WE MAKE
PEOPLE HAVE THOSE THINGS THAT THEY WANT TO IN ENJOY AS EFFICIENT AS POSSIBLE. SO A
SERIES OF STRATEGIES THERE AND PILOTS, ET CETERA, TO FURTHER THAT. THE LAST ONE, WHICH
IS THE FIRST ―BIG AND BOLD‖ THAT THE COMMISSION IDENTIFIED AS SOMETHING TO BE ACHIEVED,
FOCUSES WHOLE-HOUSE SOLUTIONS IN NEW CONSTRUCTION. AND THERE THE PROBLEM HAS—IS A
LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN THE WHOLE-HOUSE IN EXISTING STRUCTURES.           MOST HOMES IN
CALIFORNIA ARE BUILT BY PRODUCTION BUILDERS. THE TECHNOLOGY TO BUILD A ZERO-NET-
ENERGY HOME DOESN‘T—AND THERE‘S DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS—BUT IT DOESN‘T SEEM TO EXIST
TODAY, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU CAN DO ON A—ON SITE AT A HOME. SO THAT THE TRICK
THERE IS HOW DO YOU ADVANCE THE TECHNOLOGIES AND HOW DO YOU CHANGE THE
MANUFACTURING PROCESSES FOR PRODUCTION BUILDERS, OR HOW DO THEY CHANGE THEM SO, IN
FACT, THEY CAN INCORPORATE THOSE TECHNOLOGIES, AND HOW DO YOU— AND HOW DO YOU
COME UP WITH DESIGNS THAT, IN FACT, REPRESENT HOMES THAT PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE IN?
BECAUSE YOU WANT CONSUMER DEMAND FOR THE MOST EFFICIENT HOME, NOT ONLY BECAUSE
IT‘S MOST EFFICIENT BUT ALSO BECAUSE IT‘S A NICE AND PLEASANT AND SUPPORTIVE SPACE TO
LIVE IN. SO AGAIN, IT‘S AN ISSUE OF PULLING TECHNOLOGIES,
EDUCATING CONSUMERS, BUT IT HAS THE ADDED COMPLEXITY OF DEALING WITH AN INDUSTRY
THAT PRODUCES HOMES IN A SYSTEMATIC WAY. THOSE WERE THE THREE SORT OF TOP-LEVEL
STRATEGIES THAT CAME OUT OF THAT SECTOR. THERE WERE A NUMBER OTHER ONES, AND I‘D LIKE
TO JUST MENTION THEM BRIEFLY BECAUSE YOU‘LL SEE—AND THEY—THEY GENERALLY CAME OUT
OF THE SUBGROUPS. THEY— THERE‘S SOME OVERLAP, BUT THERE‘S SOME NEW THEMES,
AND SOME OF THOSE THEMES ARE PICKED UP IN OTHER STRATEGIES. THERE WAS A BIG INTEREST
IN CONSUMER EDUCATION, AS I‘VE ALREADY MENTIONED, AND IT TOOK THE TANGIBLE FORM OF
VISUAL DISPLAYS. SO THAT, IN FACT, A CONSUMER WOULD HAVE SOMETHING THAT WOULD TELL
THEM ―ELECTRIC USE,‖ ―GAS USE,‖ AND IN SOME DISCUSSIONS—I THINK IT WAS THE GENTLEMAN
FROM SAN FRANCISCO—TALKED ABOUT ―WATER USE,‖ ―INDOOR AIR QUALITY‖ SO THE CUSTOMER
COULD ACTUALLY GET, IN ESSENCE, REAL TIME FEEDBACK IN TERMS OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN
THEIR HOME AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF ACTIONS THEY TOOK, EITHER IN OPERATING THEIR
EQUIPMENT OR IN BRINGING NEW EQUIPMENT IN. THERE WAS A—AN ISSUE THAT CAME UP AROUND
HOW SAVINGS ARE MEASURED BETWEEN USING TITLE 24 COMPLIANCE MODELS AND SOME OF THE
METHODS THAT THE CPUC HAS FOUND IN AT LEAST ONE OF ITS RECENT EVALUATIONS, THAT THAT
WAS IDENTIFIED AS AN INCONSISTENCY THAT MIGHT BE A BARRIER, AND I WILL— I‘M GOING TO
FOLLOW UP WITH HAZLYN AND ENERGY DIVISION A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT BECAUSE IT WAS— IT
WAS KIND OF A SMALLER AND TECHNICAL THING. THERE‘S A PHENOMENON GOING ON—AND WHO‘S
HERE FROM A CITY OR REPRESENTS A CITY OR A COUNTY? SO THERE‘S A LOT OF INTEREST IN
GREEN AND SUSTAINABLE ACTIVITY. AT THE SAME TIME, ONE OF THE GROUPS IN THIS RESIDENTIAL
TRACT SAW THAT CITIES DOING DIFFERENT THINGS PROVIDED CONFUSION IN THE BUILDER
COMMUNITY, AND SO THERE WAS A TENSION BETWEEN HOW FAST CITIES WANTED TO GO AND—
AND HOW THE INDUSTRY COULD REACT TO THAT. I THINK OF IT IN TERMS OF THE BAY AREA. WE‘VE
GOT, YOU KNOW, RICHMOND, EL CERRITO, ALBANY, BERKELEY, EMERYVILLE,
OAKLAND, SAN LEA—SAN LEANDRO, HAYWARD, FREMONT, YOU KNOW, IT‘S LIKE—SO IF THEY ALL
HAVE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT VARIATIONS ON A GREEN STANDARD, WHAT DOES A BUILDER DO
ACROSS ALL OF THOSE? BUT IT SEEMED THAT THERE WAS ACTUALLY AN OPPORTUNITY IN TERMS
OF, FOR EXAMPLE, THE CITY OF SAN JOSE HAS A CODE OR—THAT I‘VE READ HOW THE ENERGY
COMMISSION COULD USE THESE CITY OR COUNTY EXAMPLES AS EXPERIMENTS AND PRODUCE A—
AN EVOLVING MODEL GREEN CODE THAT EACH COULD USE AS A REFERENCE SO THAT YOU COULD
BASICALLY GAIN FROM THE INDIVIDUAL EXPERIMENTS THAT WERE HAPPENING AND HAVE THEM IN—
IN A WAY THAT WAS—THAT WAS ORGANIZED AND CONSISTENT AND COULD MOVE THROUGH TIME.
CODE ENFORCEMENT CAME UP AS A BIG ISSUE, NOT JUST HERE BUT, IN FACT, THIS IS A STRATEGY
THAT WE BROUGHT OVER FROM COMMERCIAL BECAUSE IT‘S AN ISSUE IN—IN COMMERCIAL AS

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WELL. THERE SEEMS TO BE EVIDENCE—THERE‘S SOME EVIDENCE THAT, IN FACT, AS-BUILTS DON‘T
MEET CODE, EITHER IN TERMS OF ALL OF THEM OR IN TERMS OF THE—OF THE ENERGY STANDARD.
WE CAN PROMULGATE NEW CODES, ADVANCE CODES, ADVANCE STANDARDS; BUT IF, IN FACT, THE
AS-BUILTS DON‘T MEET THOSE, WE AREN‘T GETTING AS FAR AND AS FAST AS WE NEED TO. THERE
WERE A NUMBER OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT, BUT SINCE LOCAL GOVERNMENT
HAS ITS OWN CHAPTER, 12, MOST OF THE ITEMS ARE THERE, BUT THERE WERE A FEW STRATEGIES
FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE ACTIVE IN THIS AREA AS WELL,
AND THERE‘S LOTS OF THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN THERE. AND THERE WAS ALSO INTEREST IN
INTEGRATION FOR THE RESIDENTIAL CONSUMER AND THE IDEA OF A ONE-STOP SHOP, EITHER
WHETHER—EITHER PHYSICAL OR VIRTUAL, WHERE IT WAS CONVENIENT FOR A CONSUMER TO GO
AND FIND THE INFORMATION AND PERHAPS EVEN THE PRODUCTS THAT THEY NEEDED. SO WE‘LL
PROBABLY SEE SOME EXPERIMENTS ALONG THOSE LINES IN THE NEXT YEAR OR TWO PERHAPS. SO
ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THE RESIDENTIAL SECTOR?

MR. ECKHART: YEAH, BILL. TOM ECKHART WITH UCONS. THIS—THIS IS NOT A NEW ISSUE. YOU
TALK ABOUT CODE—CODE ENFORCEMENT. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, LET‘S SAY, REGIONALLY
BETWEEN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AND THEIR REGIONAL PLAN, AND— AND CALIFORNIA‘S
PLANNING IN TERMS OF HOW YOU DEAL WITH NEW CODES. YOU‘RE TALKING ABOUT NEW
CONSTRUCTION. THERE‘S A GREAT DEAL OF OVERLAP BETWEEN DEVELOPING APPROPRIATE
CODES FOR DEVELOPERS AND BUILDERS, WHICH WE‘VE WORKED WITH FOR MANY YEARS, VERSUS
TRYING TO DO IT HIT-AND-MISS JUST WITH AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY STRATEGIC PLAN. WHAT I
HAVEN‘T SEEN IN THE CURRENT STRATEGIC PLAN IS THE SPECIFIC EFFORT TO DEVELOP
APPROPRIATE NEW CODES SO YOU DON‘T HAVE TO COME IN AND—AND DEVELOP APPROPRIATE
ENERGY EFFICIENCY STANDARDS AFTER THE FACT. THAT‘S JUST AN OBSERVATION IN THE—
MR. MILLER: OKAY. YES.

MR. EMBLEM: ERIK EMBLEM AGAIN WITH CAL SMAC AND THE SHEET METAL WORKERS. JUST—JUST
TO NOTE ON THE BACK WHERE YOU—IN YOUR TABLE WHERE YOU IDENTIFY THE PRINCIPAL
STAKEHOLDERS, IN THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR YOU—YOU PUT THE BUILDING AND YOU DON‘T—
BUILDERS AND OWNERS AS STAKEHOLDERS, AND I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU DO THE SAME WITH
RESIDENTIAL AND— AND INCLUDE YOUR PRIMARY SUBCONTRACTORS AS STAKEHOLDERS.

MR. MILLER: THANK YOU. AND ACTUALLY, YOU CAN HELP ME A LITTLE MORE, BECAUSE ONE OF
THINGS THAT WE‘RE CALLED UPON TO DO IN AN ORDER THAT WE GOT A WEEK AGO FROM THE
CPUC—AND WE MAY HAVE TO—WE MAY HAVE TO BREAK OUT SOME OF THE STRATEGIES IN A LITTLE
MORE DETAIL—IS TO—IS TO BASICALLY GIVE OUR—I DON‘T KNOW QUITE HOW TO SAY THIS SINCE I‘M
TELLING OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO DO THEIR BUSINESS—BUT BASICALLY WHAT—WHAT OUR
ESTIMATE IS OF THE APPROPRIATE LEAD FOR THAT STRATEGY. SO ANY—ANY INSIGHTS OR THINGS
YOU WOULD WANT TO ADD IN THAT—AND THAT‘S SOMETHING WE‘RE OBLIGED TO DO IN THE
FUTURE. SO ANY—ANY INPUT ON THAT IS APPRECIATED, EITHER ON THIS ONE OR ON OTHERS.

MR. ECKHART: I THINK THAT—THAT‘S VALID, AND IT‘S PROBABLY SOMETHING WHERE YOU TALK
ABOUT ONGOING WORK WITH THE PLAN AND MOVING FORWARD. BUT I WOULD SAY THAT, YOU
KNOW, WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT CODES AND IMPLEMENTING NEW CODES AND YOU‘RE
TALKING ABOUT A NEW STRATEGIC PLAN AND A NEW METHOD OF DOING BUSINESS—

MR. MILLER: UH-HUH.

MR. ECKHART:     -- OBVIOUSLY, THE CONTRACTORS AND—AND—AND THE—THE PRIMARY
SUBCONTRACTORS, THEY‘RE KEY TO IMPLEMENTING THOSE STRATEGIES. AND WHAT I SEE HERE IS
POLICY MAKERS, UTILITIES, CEC, CPUC, SEEM TO BE ON THE LEAD AND IT—AND THAT‘S WHERE I
THINK THE DISCONNECT IS IN IMPLEMENTING THE STRATEGIC PLAN, KIND OF WHERE THE RUBBER
HITS THE ROAD IS—IS WHERE THESE CONTRACTORS AND THEIR WORKERS ARE GOING TO—ARE
GOING TO IMPLEMENT THIS IN THE FIELD AND GET THEIR CUSTOMERS TO BUY IN.

MR. MILLER: OKAY. THANK YOU. YES.

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MS. COLLART: THANK YOU. I‘M CHERYL COLLART FROM VENTURA COUNTY REGIONAL ENERGY
ALLIANCE. I JUST WANTED TO SPEAK A LITTLE BIT TO THE COMMENTS IN HERE ABOUT HOUSING,
NEW CONSTRUCTION, SO ON. THERE‘S JUST A RECENTLY RELEASED SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
ASSOCIATION OF GOVERNMENTS REGIONAL LAND USE DOCUMENT—

MR. MILLER: UH-HUH.

MS. COLLART: -- COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DOCUMENT. SOME OF US HAVE PARTICIPATED IN THAT AS
WELL AS THIS PROCESS. I THINK IT‘S IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF THE GREEN BUILDING AND WHAT‘S
ANTICIPATED. THERE‘S SIMILAR STRATEGIES. THERE OUGHT TO BE OPPORTUNITIES TO INTEGRATE
THOSE AND HIT TARGET SOONER RATHER THAN LATER. SO I DON‘T KNOW HOW WELL THAT‘S BEING
INTEGRATED IN THE—AGAIN, IN THE CODE DEVELOPMENT, COORDINATION, JUST SUGGEST THERE
SHOULD BE CLOSE COORDINATION FOR USING THESE REGIONAL PLANS TO ADVANCE THESE
LARGER STATE PLANS.

MR. MILLER: I DIDN‘T GO TO ALL OF THE RESIDENTIAL WORKSHOPS. I WENT TO THE—A COUPLE OF
THEM, AND I—I RECALL LAND USE PLANNING COMING UP BUT—BUT I THINK THE DEPTH OF
EXPERTISE THAT WAS AVAILABLE IN OUR PROCESS WASN‘T SUFFICIENT TO REALLY TAKE IT ON AS
AN ISSUE. AND I—BUT I DO KNOW IT—I KNEW—I KNOW THERE‘S STATEWIDE EFFORTS AS WELL, AND
I‘M—I‘M NOT SURPRISED TO HEAR THERE‘S REGIONAL ONES. AND I THINK—THINK THAT‘S—YES, WE
NEED TO—SOMEHOW THOSE NEED TO COME TOGETHER, EITHER IN THIS CYCLE OR THE NEXT
CYCLE. AS MARK MENTIONED, WE DON‘T—DON‘T IMAGINE THAT THIS IS A ONE-TIME—A ONE-TIME
PROCESS BUT, RATHER, WILL BE ONGOING. AND WE‘LL DO WHAT WE CAN THIS TIME.

MS. COLLART: AND JUST—JUST A COMMENT. I THINK THE ISSUE, ALSO, IS LOCAL GOVERNMENTS,
WE HAVE—MAYBE WE DON‘T NEED POUNDS MORE OF REPORTS AS MUCH AS WE NEED THE
OPPORTUNITY TO INTERACT. SO I‘M LOOKING AT SEVERAL HUNDRED DOC—PAGES OF EACH
DOCUMENT. SO, AGAIN, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF US ARE TRYING TO GET ON THE SAME PAGE,
AND IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR UTILITIES AND STATE COMMISSIONS TO WORK WITH LOCAL
GOVERNMENTS‘ REGIONAL EFFORTS TO ADVANCE THESE THINGS SO WE GET TO IT FASTER RATHER
THAN MORE PAPERWORK AND JUST, AGAIN, THAT APPROACH. THE INTEGRATION IS HIGHLY
IMPORTANT.

MR. MILLER: THANK YOU. DAVID.

MR. NEMTZOW: THANK YOU. THANKS, BILL. LET‘S TURN TO COMMERCIAL. AS THE CALIFORNIA
ECONOMY HAS TRANSFORMED, THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR HAS BECOME THE LARGEST CONSUMER
OF ELECTRICITY AND NATURAL GAS IN TOTAL IN CALIFORNIA. AND AS A RESULT, THE
OPPORTUNITIES AND CHALLENGES ARE BOTH GREAT. ATHENA BESA OF SO CAL GAS AND SAN
DIEGO GAS & ELECTRIC WILL WALK US THROUGH THE COMMERCIAL ISSUES.

MS. BESA: GOOD MORNING. I HAVE TO DO THIS BECAUSE EVERYBODY IN THE SPEAKING TEAM IS
TALLER THAN ME. PLUS I CAN‘T STAND STILL LIKE BILL. SO I‘LL JUST TALK FROM HERE AND MOVE
AROUND AND... GOING TO WHAT MARK STARTED WITH, I REALLY DON‘T WANT TO GO THROUGH MY
SLIDES PER SE AND READ THEM ALL TO YOU.           THERE‘S NOT A LOT OF PAGES ON THE
PRESENTATION, AND CERTAINLY, IN THE REPORT— AND I DON‘T KNOW IF WE TALKED ABOUT THE
STRUCTURE OF THE REPORT THAT IS AVAILABLE ON THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY WEBSITE—IS THAT
THERE‘S ABOUT A HUNDRED PAGES OF THE PROPOSED STRATEGY AND ABOUT 400-SOME PAGES OF
ACTUAL WORK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE PUT TOGETHER AND—WHAT WAS IT? -- ABOUT THOU— 11,000
PARTICIPANTS -- 1100 PARTICIPANTS IN ALL THESE WORKSHOPS. SO THIS IS JUST A CONGEALING
OF ALL THAT INFORMATION THAT THEY PUT TOGETHER, AND SO I‘LL JUST GO THROUGH IT QUICKLY.
BUT, PLEASE, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, LET‘S—LET‘S—JUST STOP ME, AND I‘LL ANSWER THEM.
FOR COMMERCIAL, THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR, THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST
ENERGY CONSUMERS IN THE STATE. AND IT TAKES ABOUT 38 PERCENT OR CLOSE TO 40 PERCENT
OF ELECTRIC USAGE AND ABOUT 25 PERCENT ON THE NATURAL GAS SIDE. SO THIS—IT‘S A VERY
IMPORTANT SECTOR. NOW, JUST AS A—PERSONALLY, WHEN I HEAR ―COMMERCIAL,‖ THE THING
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          Southern California Gas Company & Southern California Edison
THAT ALWAYS COMES TO ME IS LIKE AN OFFICE BUILDING LIKE THIS, DOWNTOWN L.A., DOWNTOWN
SAN FRANCISCO. BUT THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR ACTUALLY CONSISTS OF LOT MORE THAN JUST
COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS. AND SO THERE‘S A HUGE DIVERSITY IN THE SEGMENT ITSELF. AND EACH
ONE OF THEM HAS THEIR OWN NEEDS AND REQUIREMENTS. SO FROM OFFICE BUILDINGS LIKE THIS
TO RESTAURANTS TO HOSPITALS TO WAREHOUSES AND SO FORTH, THERE‘S—AND—AND WHEN
YOU LOOK AT IT, YOU START OFF WITH THE PRIME END USES FOR THESE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS
TENDS TO BE LIGHTING AND HVAC, BUT AS YOU MOVE AROUND INTO THE DIFFERENT SECTORS AND
RESTAURANTS, CERTAINLY LIGHTING IS AN ISSUE AND SPACE CONDITIONING IS AN ISSUE, BUT THEY
DO HAVE COOKING NEEDS. THEN YOU GO TO THE SUPERMARKETS, THERE‘S REFRIGERATION. AS
YOU MOVE DOWN DIFFERENT SECTORS, THEY—THEY‘RE GOING TO FOCUS MORE ON A CERTAIN
END USE. AND THAT‘S PART OF THE DIVERSITY OF COMMERCIAL—THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR. NOW,
IN ORIGINAL DECISION THAT WAS POINTING US TO CREATE A STRATEGIC PLAN TO 20 – TO GET US
TO 2020, THERE ARE TWO PARTICULAR ―BIG BOLD‖ STRATEGIES THAT ARE GEARED TOWARDS THE
COMMERCIAL SECTOR. THE FIRST ONE IS GETTING TO A NET-ZERO-ENERGY-CONSUMING BUILDING
BY 2030 AND IMPROVEMENTS IN THE HIGH PERFORMANCE FOR HVAC FOR— PRIMARILY GEARED
TOWARDS THE SMALL COMMERCIAL— COMMERCIAL MARKET. SO THOSE ARE TWO OF THE PRIMARY
GOALS. NOW, YESTERDAY WHEN WE STARTED, THE WAY WE WROTE UP OUR VISION HERE, IT SAYS
WE WANT TO PUT EVERYONE ON A PATH TO NET ZERO ENERGY. AS OF THE SURVEY THAT WE WERE
DOING RECENTLY, THERE REALLY IS NO BUILDING IN EXISTENCE THAT IS CURRENTLY AT NET ZERO.
SO WHEN WE LOOK AROUND AND LOOK AT THE TECHNOLOGIES AVAILABLE, THE DIFFERENT TYPES
OF EQUIPMENT AND THE DIFFERENT PROCEEDINGS AND POLICIES OUT THERE TO PUSH THESE KIND
OF THING, IT DOES NOT EXIST. SO ALTHOUGH WE THINK—SO WHEN WE WERE SITTING TRYING TO
THINK ABOUT THIS, WE GO, ―IS THIS AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK? IS IT DOABLE OR‖—―OR MAYBE WE CAN
DO IT.‖ AND I THINK ONE OF MY EXAMPLES WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, ―WHO IN THE ‗80S THOUGHT
ABOUT THE WEBSITE?‖ AND THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE FASTER THAN THE SPEED
OF SOUND OR LIGHT QUICKLY WITH EACH OTHER UNTIL THE ADVENT OF THE WEBSITE. AND THAT
ONLY TOOK MAYBE A COUPLE OR SO YEARS BEFORE IT TOOK HOLD, AND LIFE IS DIFFERENT NOW.
BUT THE SAME COULD HAPPEN WITH NET ZERO ENERGY. RIGHT NOW WE DON‘T KNOW WHAT‘S OUT
THERE. HOW CAN WE GET THERE? BUT ALL IT TAKES IS FOR SOME SMART ENGINEERING STUDENT
WHO‘S GRADUATING SOON OR SOMETHING TO COME UP WITH TECHNOLOGY OR A WAY TO THINK
ABOUT THIS, AND WE COULD BE THERE FASTER THAN WE THINK SO... BUT CURRENTLY WE THINK
THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF HURDLES THAT WE NEED TO GET THERE THROUGH. RIGHT NOW THERE IS
IN—IN THE CALIFORNIA LEGISLATION, AB2030 THAT‘S BEEN PROPOSED, ACTUALLY GO THROUGH THE
DEFINITION OF WHAT IS NET ZERO ENERGY BUILDING. AND THEY‘VE TASKED THE ENERGY
COMMISSION WITH COMING UP WITH CODES AND STANDARDS TO ACTUALLY PROMOTE AND ENSURE
THAT THIS HAPPENS. THERE ARE FOUR PRIMARY KEY STRATEGIES, BUT I THINK I CAN SUMMARIZE
THEM MORE INTO THREE. AND THE FIRST ONE HAS TO DO WITH CODES AND STANDARDS, BOTH
DEVELOPMENT OF CODES AND STANDARDS AND ENFORCEMENT CODES AND STANDARDS. AND I
THINK BILL, IN THE RESIDENTIAL SECTOR, TALKED A LOT ABOUT SOME OF THE GAINS THAT WE
SHOULD BE ABLE TO ATTAIN WITH CODES AND STANDARDS CAN ONLY HAPPEN IF THERE‘S
ACTUALLY ENFORCEMENT OF THE CODE. NOW, APPLICATION OF THE CODE FOR COMMERCIAL
BUILDINGS IS NOT SIMPLE. IT‘S VERY COMPLICATED, AND NOT ALL BUILDING TYPES FALL UNDER
CODES AND STANDARDS. SO TRYING TO COME UP WITH THE RIGHT CODES AND STANDARDS TO
ACTUALLY ENSURE ENERGY EFFICIENCY IS BUILT INTO NEW CONSTRUCTION AND ANY RENOVATION
THAT‘S HAPPENING IS VERY COMPLICATED FOR COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS. SO ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT WE‘RE THINKING OF IS THAT THERE SHOULD BE A WAY TO SIMPLIFY THIS. WE SHOULD BE
ABLE TO ENABLE THE BUILDING DEPARTMENTS IN THE VARIOUS JURISDICTIONS TO BE ABLE TO
ENFORCE, UNDERSTAND, AND WORK WITH CONTRACTORS AND BUILDERS AND OWNERS TO MAKE
THIS HAPPEN. SOMETHING THAT‘S AKIN TO CODES AND STANDARDS IS ACTUALLY DEVELOPING
BUILDING LABELS. OKAY. CURRENTLY THERE‘S A LOT OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF LABELING THAT GO
WITH BUILDINGS. YOU HAVE ENERGY STAR BUILDINGS; WE HAVE LEED; YOU HAVE PLATINUM, GOLD,
SILVER, ET CETERA. BUT THEN NOT ALL OF THEM ARE PRIMARILY FOCUSED ON ENERGY
EFFICIENCY. IF YOU—IF YOU GO WITH THE LEED STANDARDS, IT—IT‘S ACTUALLY A MORE HOLISTIC,
ENVIRONMENTAL TYPE OF APPROACH TO BUILDING LABELING. AND IN THE END, YOU COULD
PROBABLY HAVE ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN IT, BUT NOT TO THE LENGTH OR AMOUNT THAT WE ARE
LOOKING FOR TO PROMOTE IN THE ENERGY SECTOR. SO WE‘RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF THE WAY
TO DO BUILDING LABELING IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD ACTUALLY PROMOTE ENERGY EFFICIENCY
MORE THAN JUST, YOU KNOW, COORDINATION WITH WATER AND—AND RECYCLING AND ALL THAT

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STUFF—NOT THAT THEY‘RE NOT IMPORTANT, BUT THAT IF WE‘RE FOCUSED ON ENERGY EFFICIENCY,
WE SHOULD ENSURE THAT THIS IS A PRIORITY. OKAY. ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS THAT WE
HEAR A LOT ABOUT FROM OUR CUSTOMERS AND BUILD— AND CONTRACTORS AND SO FORTH AND
THE ENERGY SERVICE PROVIDERS OUT THERE IS THE AVAILABILITY OF FINANCING AND INCENTIVE
FOR COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. NOW, YOU KNOW, FROM A—FROM
A REBATE OF $40 FOR, YOU KNOW, A LIGHTING FIXTURE TO MAYBE $200,000 FOR A HIGH-EFFICIENCY
CHILLER, NOT ALL OF THESE INCENTIVES ALWAYS WORK FOR CUSTOMERS IN THE TIME FRAME THAT
WE HAVE THEM, NOR IS IT PROBABLE THAT TO HAVE ADEQUATE FUNDING TO ACTUALLY SUPPORT
ALL THOSE—THE BUILDING ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROJECTS THAT ARE OUT THERE. AND SO PART OF
THE STRATEGY IN HERE IS TO ACTUALLY LEVERAGE WHAT THE—WHAT IS CURRENTLY AVAILABLE
TO THE PUBLIC GOODS CHARGE FUNDING AND ACTUALLY ANY OTHER TYPES OF FINANCING
OPTIONS OUT THERE FROM THE FINANCIAL COMMUNITY. CURRENTLY THE UTILITIES, BESIDES
HAVING INCENTIVE PROGRAMS, ACTUALLY HAVE ON-BILL FINANCING, AND THE DIFFERENT UTILITIES
ARE DIFFERENT PLACES WITH ON-BILL FINANCING. AND I CAN ONLY STATE FOR SDG&E AND THE
GAS COMPANIES. WE ACTUALLY HAVE AN ON-BILL FINANCING PROGRAM, AND WE‘VE FUNDED THEM
FOR ABOUT FIVE -- $5 MILLION EACH. WE HAVE ZERO PAYBACK ON IT AND—I MEAN, ZERO INTEREST
ON IT WITH SOME MINIMUM PAYBACK PERIOD. SO WE HAVE TRACTION IN THAT—IN THAT
PROGRAMS; HOWEVER, THEY NEED TO BE EXPANDED IF WE‘RE GOING TO BE AGGRESSIVE. $5
MILLION IS NOT GOING TO GET EVERYBODY IN CALIFORNIA OR SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, EVEN, TO
WHERE WE NEED TO BE. SO CREATIVE WAYS OF THINKING OF FINANCING AND LEVERAGING, I
THINK, CURRENT INCENTIVES IS IMPORTANT IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. THE LAST STRATEGY
FOR COMMERCIAL TENDS TO DO, AGAIN, WITH ENSURING AND PROMOTING NET ZERO ENERGY
DESIGN IN COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS. SO IT‘S PRETTY MUCH TIED TO CODES AND STANDARDS, AND,
HOPEFULLY, WHEN AB2030 PASSES, IT WILL BECOME EMBEDDED IN THE CODE AND WE‘LL ALL HAVE
A GOOD DIRECTION OF HOW TO GET THERE. IN SUMMARY, THAT IS THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR. SO
DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? WE‘D LOVE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS. ACTUALLY,
WE WANT COMMENTS ON HOW WE COULD IMPROVE THE STRATEGIC PLAN FOR THIS SECTOR.

MR. BRITT: RANDY BRITT WITH LOS ANGELES UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT. COUPLE QUESTIONS:
I‘M—I‘M ASSUMING WE‘RE INCLUDING THE SCHOOLS IN THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR AS—AS YOUR
DEFINITION WOULD APPLY TO IT—

MS. BESA: YES.

MR. BRITT: -- I GUESS?

MS. BESA: YES.

MR. BRITT: THERE IS A PROGRAM—SORRY— THERE IS A PROGRAM—

MR. LAWRENCE: IF YOU BACK UP A LITTLE FROM THE MICROPHONE.

MR. BRITT: THANK YOU. THERE IS A PROGRAM THAT WE‘RE CURRENTLY OPERATING UNDER WHICH
IS A COLLABORATIVE FOR HIGH-PERFORMING SCHOOLS THROUGH THE STATE. IS THAT ANYWHERE
IDENTIFIED IN THE PLAN? IS IT A—IS IT A FEASIBLE—

MS. BESA: THE CHIPS—

MR. BRITT: -- COMPONENT?

MS. BESA: -- THE CHIPS PROGRAM WAS ACTUALLY DEVELOPED IN—IN COLLABORATION WITH THE
CEC, WITH THE UTILITIES AND SO FORTH, MAYBE LIKE MAYBE THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO NOW. I
REMEMBER SITTING IN THAT MEETING WITH MACK ROSENFELD WHEN WE DID THAT. BUT IT
CERTAINLY—I MEAN, PART OF THE REASON WHY WE DID THAT IS BECAUSE APPLYING CODES AND
STANDARDS TO SCHOOL—THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS IS NOT EASY, NOR IS IT EASILY TRANSFERABLE
TO LOOK AT A REGULAR TITLE 24 CODE AND PUT IT INTO SCHOOLS. SO IN ORDER PROMOTE
ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN SCHOOLS, WE DID EXACTLY THAT: CREATE A COLLABORATIVE THAT DID

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SUPPORT THE SCHOOLS TO DO THAT. AND—AND THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF ACTIVITIES WE‘RE
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE COULD DO WITH THE VARIOUS SECTORS THAT ARE AVAILABLE,
CERTAINLY NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS, HELP—AND WHEN WE GET TO THE
LOCAL GOVERNMENT SECTOR, THERE‘S GOING TO BE TALK ABOUT HOW TO IMPROVE THE
INFRASTRUCTURE FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, TOO, WHAT KIND OF COLLABORATIVE OR PROCESS
CAN WE DEVELOP IN ORDER TO PROMOTE THE—THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, ALSO. SO SCHOOLS IS
ONE OF THE—THE EXAMPLES THAT WE‘VE DONE IN ORDER TO ADDRESS OF THE ISSUE OF APPLYING
CODES AND STANDARDS.

MR. BRITT: ONE OTHER QUESTION: I KNOW THAT THE MUNI‘S NOT GOVERNED BY THE CPUC, AND
THIS IS A CPUC EFFORT. BUT ARE THE MUNI‘S GOING TO BE ENGAGED IN THIS EFFORT AT ANY
POINT?

MS. BESA: SHALL I DEFER TO YOU, CATHY?

MS. FOGEL: WELL... HELLO. CATHY FOGEL WITH THE PUC. THAT IS CERTAINLY THE INTENT AND
DESIRE OF COMMISSIONER GRUENEICH AND THE COMMISSION ON— AS A WHOLE IS TO ENGAGE THE
MUNI‘S AND PUBLICLY OWNED UTILITIES IN THIS PROCESS, AND IT‘S SOMETHING THAT OUTREACH IS
ONGOING. WE‘RE NOT QUITE THERE YET IN TERMS OF FIGURING OUT HOW TO FULLY ENGAGE THEM
AND THEN INSTITUTIONALIZE A COLLABORATIVE PROCESS. BUT IT—IT‘S DEFINITELY SOMETHING
THAT—THAT‘S STRONGLY DESIRED, AND WE‘RE TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD ON IT.

MS. BESA: BILL MILLER.

MR. MILLER: I—I WANTED TO ADD, IT‘S—THE VIEW‘S A LITTLE DIFFERENT IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA
AND SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. WE HAD SOME INVOLVEMENT OF THE SACRAMENTO MUNICIPAL
UTILITY DISTRICT. I—I THINK WE HAD SOME PARTICIPATION, WHEN MEETINGS WERE IN THE BAY
AREA, FROM SOME OF OUR LOCAL MUNICIPAL UTILITIES AROUND THE BAY AREA. SO I THINK
THERE‘S BEEN SOME. THERE‘S BEEN—AS CATHY MENTIONS, THERE‘S BEEN OUTREACH EFFORTS. I
THINK THE INTENTION IS FOR THIS TO EXPAND AND BE A USEFUL DOCUMENT FOR AN INCREASING
AND WIDER ARRAY OF STAKEHOLDERS IN CALIFORNIA. SO WE‘LL SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

MS. BESA: AND I THINK, IF YOU NOTE ON THE PRESENTATION, WHERE WE PUT ―STAKEHOLDERS,‖
THERE‘S A LITTLE ASTERISK NEXT TO ―UTILITIES,‖ AND IT DOES TRY TO BE INCLUSIVE TO HAVE THE
MUNI‘S PARTICIPATING. AB2010 -- IS THAT RIGHT, LANCE? – 2010 ACTUALLY HAS A STANDARD FOR
ALL UTILITIES IN CALIFORNIA TO MEET A CERTAIN LEVEL OF REDUCT—OH, 2021. SORRY. SO AB2021
ACTUALLY PUTS THE ENTIRE CALIFORNIA ONTO A CERTAIN PATH TO REDUCE ENERGY
CONSUMPTION, AND THEY ARE ALSO—THAT‘S PART OF— THE MUNI‘S ARE SUBJECT TO THAT, AND
THEY ARE COVERED IN THE—AND I DON‘T KNOW IF YOU‘RE FAMILIAR WITH THE ENERGY—
CALIFORNIA ENERGY COMMISSION‘S INTEGRATED ENERGY—WHAT‘S THE ―P‖ FOR? – POLICY
REPORT. AND IT ACTUALLY HAS A GOAL IN THERE FOR EACH UTILITY, NOT JUST THE IOU‘S, BUT
EVERY SINGLE MUNI THAT‘S IN—THAT IS IN CALIFORNIA. AND SO HOPEFULLY, AS BILL WAS SAYING
AND CATHY WAS SAYING, THAT THIS DOCUMENT WOULD ENCOURAGE THEM TO PARTICIPATE TO—IT
NOT ONLY HELPS CALIFORNIA, BUT IT WILL ALSO HELP THEM MAKE THEIR OWN GOALS FOR ENERGY
EFFICIENCY. YES.

MR. EMBLEM: YES. ERIK EMBLEM WITH CAL SMAC AND THE SHEET METAL WORKERS. WHEN YOU
LOOK AT YOUR KEY STRATEGIES AND IT—IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE YOU— YOU‘RE PUTTING CODES AND
ENFORCEMENT NO. 1 AND—AND I WOULD SUGGEST THAT MAYBE THAT—THAT COULD MOVE A
LITTLE BIT AND ALIGN THE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, LABELS, AND BENCHMARKING UP TO NO. 1.
THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF EMPHASIS ON CODES AND STANDARDS, AND THERE‘S A LOT OF
THINGS THAT HAS TO BE DONE IN COOPERATION WITH THE MUNICIPALITIES TO WORK ON A MORE
EFFICIENT WAY OF APPLYING CODES AND STANDARDS AND TRAINING INSPECTORS IN THE FIELD.
AND THE OTHER COMMENT I HAVE IS IN THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR IT SEEMS TO RELY VERY
HEAVILY ON NEW CONSTRUCTION AND GOALS TOWARDS ZERO ENERGY IN BUT WHEN OUR REAL
ENERGY CONSUMPTION IS IN EXISTING BUILDINGS. AND—AND WE HAVEN‘T TALKED A LOT ABOUT
EXISTING BUILDINGS. AND ONE OF THOUGHTS THAT CAME UP IN THE WORKSHOPS—IT MAY HAVE
BEEN IN HVAC OR OTHER ONE OF THE OTHER ONES I ATTENDED—BUT THAT‘S THE IDEA OF POINT-

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OF-SALE COMMISSIONING. AND I DON‘T SEE THAT IN THIS REPORT, BUT I THINK THAT IT‘S
SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED, AND I KNOW IT WAS VETTED AT A CALIFORNIA
COMMISSION COLLABORATIVE MEETING THAT—OF A WAY OF ENCOURAGING ENERGY EFFICIENCY
AT THE POINT OF SALE IN BOTH RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS.

MS. BESA: AND—AND, YOU KNOW, I—I DID READ SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN THE STRATEGIC PLAN,
BUT I DON‘T THINK IT IS IN THIS SECTION. PART OF—TO ADDRESS ONE OF YOUR— YOUR POINTS IS
THAT TO—IN ORDER TO ENFORCE CODES AND STANDARDS, WHICH SEEMS TO BE ON THE TOP OF
EVERYONE‘S LIST—I THINK IT‘S BECAUSE IT GOES ACROSS THE SECTORS, REALLY—IS THAT IN THE
LOCAL GOVERNMENT STRATEGY, WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN PARTNER AND
LEVERAGE THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN ORDER TO ENABLE THEM TO EFFECTIVELY DO THIS, SINCE
TYPICALLY THEY ARE THE CODE AND—THE CODES AND STANDARDS ENFORCEMENT—NOT SO MUCH
ENFORCEMENT, BUT THEY ACTUALLY DO THE COMPLIANCING AND CHECKING. SO WE‘RE—THERE‘S
A LOT OF THAT IN THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT SECTION, INCLUDING THE POINT OF SALE OR CHANGE
OF OWNERSHIP, WHAT TO DO AT THAT POINT. AND I DON‘T REMEMBER, BILL, WHERE WE TALKED
ABOUT DECISION-MAKING POINTS AND WHERE YOU START TO INFLUENCE A CUSTOMER IN ORDER
TO MAKE THESE TYPES OF DECISIONS. AND CERTAINLY, NEW CONSTRUCTION AT BEGINNING OF
WHEN PEOPLE ACTUALLY FIRST THOUGHT THEY‘RE GOING TO BUILD SOMETHING ON A PROPERTY
THAT THEY OWN, GETTING IN THE DOOR AT THAT POINT WITH THEIR ARCHITECTS OR
CONTRACTORS OR ENGINEERING TEAM AND SO FORTH, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE PROCESS IS
THE MOST COST-EFFECTIVE WAY TO DO THIS, BECAUSE THAT WAY YOU DON‘T HAVE TO GO BACK
AND FIX THE BUILDING WHEN IT‘S DONE. HOWEVER, WHEN YOU DO HAVE CHANGE OF OWNERSHIPS
AND SO FORTH, THAT—THAT IS A GOOD DECISION-MAKING POINT.            AND TYPICALLY, IN A
COMMERCIAL BUILDING, CHANGE IN OWNERSHIP WOULD ALSO COVER—THEY WANT TO DO
RENOVATIONS ON—INTO THE PLACE THAT THEY‘RE MOVING INTO, WHICH MOST OF THE TIME
TRIGGERS PERMITTING PROCESS. AND SO IN PARTNERING WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WHERE
THESE TEND TO BE MORE KNOWN, THAT WE COULD ACTUALLY DO THESE TYPES OF INFLUENCING
ON ENERGY EFFICIENCY DECISIONS.

MR. NEMTZOW: RIGHT.

MR. EMBLEM: YEAH, JUST TO FOLLOW UP—

MR. NEMTZOW: ERIK, CAN I JUST ADD ONE THING TO THAT. THE—THE OTHER POINT WHICH I—I
THINK IS IMPLICIT IN WHAT YOU SAID IS—AND IF WE DIDN‘T GET IT RIGHT, TELL US—BUT ESPECIALLY
IN HVAC, BUT ALSO IN COMMERCIAL AND—IS WE TRY TO TALK ABOUT THE NEED TO DO BETTER
OPERATIONS, MAINTENANCE, INSTALLATION, WHICH I ASSUME IS DIRECTLY RELEVANT TO THE
MEMBERS OF YOUR CLIENTS, BUT ALSO IS DIRECTLY RELEVANT TO SUCCESS HERE. THE—THE—
THE—ON HVAC—AND WE HAVE MARSHALL HUNT HERE—THE RECORD ON INSTALLATION IS QUITE
POOR AS—AS YOU‘RE PROBABLY AWARE. AND WE NEED TO—PART OF THAT ARE—PART OF THAT
ARE ACTS OF COMMISSION, BUT MOSTLY IT‘S ACTS OF OMISSION, INADEQUATE TRAINING, ET
CETERA. SO IN TERMS OF EXISTING BUILDINGS, WE SEE THAT AS A BIG PART OF IT, YOU KNOW,
TRAINING, OPERATIONS, RUNNING THINGS. SO, AGAIN, IF—IF IT‘S NOT PROPER— IN FACT, LET ME
SAY TO EVERYBODY: IN TERMS OF YOUR COMMENTS, ANY COMMENTS YOU MAKE TODAY, IT
CERTAINLY WON‘T HURT AND IT WOULD HELP IF YOU‘D ALSO MAKE THEM FORMALLY IN WRITING. IF
NOT, WE HAVE A—BOTH A COURT REPORTER AND PEOPLE TAKING NOTES; SO WE WILL CAPTURE IT,
BUT WE‘LL CAPTURE IT EVEN BETTER IF YOU PUT IT IN WRITING AND/OR SAY—NOT JUST—IF YOU
WANT TO SAY SOMETHING‘S IMPORTANT, THAT‘S GREAT. IF YOU WANT TO SAY, ―YOU TALK ABOUT IT
ON PAGE 23‖— SORT OF LIKE YOU SAID, ERIK—―YOU TALK ABOUT IT ON PAGE 23. IT REALLY NEEDS
TO BE ELEVATED.‖ YOU KNOW, THE MORE SPECIFIC YOU CAN GET, THAT ALSO HELPS US GREATLY,
TOO. THANK YOU, ERIK. AND ANOTHER ONE IS HAZLYN.

MR. EMBLEM: POINT WELL TAKEN. AND I—AND I—AND WE WILL. WE‘LL SUBMIT THAT IN WRITING.
AND I AGREE WITH YOU THAT WHEN WE‘RE TALKING ABOUT THE POINT OF SALE AND—AND—AND
IT‘S SOMETHING THAT‘S KIND OF IN THE BACKGROUND AND WE‘RE TALKING ABOUT IT, BUT I GO
BACK TO MY FIRST STATEMENT, WHERE WE—WE HAVE, NO. 1, CODES AND ENFORCEMENT AS OUR
NO. 1 STRATEGY, YET WE FULLY REALIZE THAT THE ENERGY CONSUMPTION IN AN EXISTING
BUILDING IS GOING TO ECLIPSE NEW BUILDINGS. AND WE FULLY REALIZE THAT PERMITTING
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PROCESSES ON NEW BUILDINGS IS FAR GREATER THAN IT IS IN EXISTING WHEN—AND WORKING IN
THE HVAC WORKSHOP, I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THIS ISSUE OF POOR PERMITTING
PROCESS WAS ONLY IN THE RESIDENTIAL SECTOR AND—AND I LEARNED REAL FAST THAT IT‘S BIG
TIME IN THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR. SO WHEN YOU—WHEN LESS THAN 10 PERCENT OF RETROFITS
IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA ARE EVEN BEING PERMITTED, IT MEANS THAT THE CUSTOMER
DOESN‘T SEE A VALUE IN IT. THEY DON‘T SEE ANY— ANY VALUE ADDED TO HAVING AN INSPECTOR
ON SITE. WHEN YOU START BENCHMARKING BUILDINGS AND GIVING THEM NOTORIETY FOR HAVING
A MORE EFFICIENT BUILDING, YOU‘RE ALSO TALKING TO THEIR CUSTOMERS, WHICH IS A MOTIVATOR
FOR THEM TO CALL IN CONTRACTORS OR TO HAVE MORE EFFICIENT BUILDING OPERATORS WORK
WITHIN THEIR BUILDINGS. AND JUST BACK TO MY POINT, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE MOVED UP A LITTLE
BIT.

MS. BESA: AND ACTUALLY, THERE IS A BENCHMARKING PROCESS THAT‘S GOING ON RIGHT NOW. IT
WAS PART OF THE—IN RESPONSE TO THE GOVERNOR‘S EXECUTIVE GREEN BUILDING ORDER.
AND—AND THERE IS A BENCHMARKING GROUP THAT‘S HEADED BY THE CEC THAT WE PARTNERED
WITH ENERGY STAR TO HELP ACTUALLY INFORM CURRENT CUSTOMERS WHERE THEY ARE AND
ALSO RELATIVE TO OTHER BUILDINGS OF THE SAME TYPE SO THAT THEY COULD DECIDE, YOU
KNOW, HOW MUCH MORE EFFORT THEY COULD DO IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD. AND SOME OF
THE OTHER INITIATIVES THAT ARE CURRENTLY ONGOING, WHICH I‘LL MAYBE MENTION WHEN I GET
DOWN TO INTEGRATION OF THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF DEMAND SIDE MANAGEMENT ACTIVITIES, IS IN
THE CSI IT REQUIRES, ACTUALLY, THAT AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY—A COMPLETE ENERGY EFFICIENCY
AUDIT BE IMPLEMENTED AND THAT ALL ENERGY EFFICIENCY RECOMMENDATIONS BE IMPLEMENTED
PRIOR, FOR EXAMPLE, TO ACTUALLY MOVING ON INTO THE CSI PROGRAM. THIS WILL ALLOW FOR
PROPER SIZING OF THE FINAL EQUIPMENT THAT THEY PURCHASE UNDER CSI. SO THERE‘S—
THERE‘S SOME OF THE WORK THAT‘S GOING ON ALREADY. I THINK THAT WE TALKED ABOUT NEAR-
TERM, SHORT-TERM TYPE STUFF. SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE ACTUALLY ONGOING. WE‘RE
PROBABLY NOT WHERE WE NEED TO BE AT THIS POINT, BUT CERTAINLY, THERE‘S PROGRESS
THAT‘S BEING MADE ON IT. HAZLYN, YOU HAD A QUESTION?

MS. FORTUNE: YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO ADD SOMETHING TO THE—

MS. BESA: WOULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME AGAIN, PLEASE.

MS. FORTUNE: I‘M SORRY. HAZLYN FORTUNE, H-A-Z-L-Y-N—

MR. BESA: THANK YOU.

MS. FORTUNE: -- AND FORTUNE IS F-O-R-T-U-N-E, PUC. I WANTED TO ADD TO THE COMMENTS OF
THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE SHEET METAL WORKERS ON THE POINT-OF-SALE COMMISSIONING
FOR COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, THAT ANOTHER ASPECT THAT WE PROBABLY WANT TO CONSIDER AS
WELL—IT SEEMS REASONABLE THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER—IS WHEN TENANTS MOVE IN AND OUT
OF A BUILDING, THAT WHEN A NEW TENANT TAKES OVER AND USUALLY THE SPACE IS GUTTED AND
IT‘S REFITTED TO MEET THE NEW TENANT‘S NEEDS—SOMETIMES IT‘S ONE FLOOR; SOMETIMES IT‘S
SEVERAL—THAT ANY EFFICIENCY OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE THERE AND PERMITTING AND
COORDINATION ISSUES THAT ARE THERE FOR THE, YOU KNOW, EITHER—I DON‘T KNOW IF THAT‘S
THE JURISDICTION FOR A LOCAL GOVERNMENT OR FOR SOME OTHER ENTITY—BUT THAT NEEDS TO
BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT, IN ADDITION TO THE POINT-OF-SALE TYPE ISSUES.

MS. BESA: DEFINITELY.

MS. FORTUNE: AND THAT WOULD BE A GOOD DECISION POINT OR A GOOD PROCESS TO—TO
IMPACT. SORRY. THE OTHER COMMENT WAS TO ADDRESS THE REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE L.A.
UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICTS ABOUT THE INVOLVEMENT OF THE PU— POU‘S IN THE STRATEGIC
PLANNING PROCESS. IN ADDITION TO THE PUC, THE CEC AND THE CARB ARE GOING TO REALLY—
WHATEVER—THE DECISIONS THAT COME OVER IN THE NEXT YEAR, ESSENTIALLY, AND NEXT
SEVERAL MONTHS WILL IMPACT THAT AS WELL. WE ARE CONTINUING OUR OUTREACH EFFORTS.
AND I JUST WANT TO ADD THAT WHATEVER CAP-IN-TRADE MECHANISMS OR OTHER GHD-RELATED
POLICIES THAT CARB ADOPTS WILL PROBABLY IMPACT, YOU KNOW, HOW BEST WE WEAVE THE

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POU‘S INTO THE STRATEGIC PLANNING PROCESS. WE DO—WE ARE VERY CLEAR THAT THIS IS A
STATEWIDE PROCESS AND THAT THE—THE IOU ACTIVITY DOESN‘T REPRESENT THE ENTIRE STATE,
THAT WE STILL NEED TO—TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY‘RE AWARE OF WHAT WE‘RE DOING AND THAT
WE FIND OPPORTUNITIES TO INTEGRATE.

MS. BESA: THANK YOU, HAZLYN. ANY MORE COMMENTS? YES.

MR. HUSSEY:    THANK YOU. JIM HUSSEY FROM MARINA         MECHANICAL AND SHEET METAL
CONTRACTORS. ONPAGE 20, UNDER YOUR FIRST STRATEGY, ITEM NO. 3 TALKS ABOUT APPLYING AN
ANALOGOUS SCHEME TO RENOVATIONS AND A LITTLE FURTHER DOWN SPEAKS TO CONSIDERING A
CODE CHANGE WHERE A RENOVATION OF 25 PERCENT OR MORE WOULD REQUIRE THE ENTIRE
STRUCTURE TO BE UPGRADED, WHICH IS A GREAT IDEA, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO JUST SIMPLY
ENCOURAGE—YOU‘VE LISTED STAKEHOLDERS AS BUILDING OWNERS. WE REALLY NEED TO REACH
OUT TO THESE FOLKS AND GET THEM TO THE TABLE AND PARTICIPATE, PARTICULARLY IN THIS
ISSUE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I‘M CONCERNED ABOUT IS A TENANT IMPROVEMENT TRIGGERING
THE UPGRADE OF AN ENTIRE BUILDING MIGHT HAVE THE OPPOSITE EFFECT AND CREATE PUSH-
BACK FROM THE OWNER, AND THAT‘S REALLY NOT GOING TO GET US TO OUR GOAL. SO IF WE CAN
GET THEM TO THE TABLE AND HELP DEVELOP THE STRATEGIES THAT THIS 25 PERCENT WILL
ACTUALLY GET THAT BUILDING UPGRADED, JUST MY COMMENT WOULD BE WE—PLEASE DO WHAT
WE CAN TO REACH OUT TO THE THIRD PARTY, THE DECISION MAKER ON THAT PROCESS.

MS. BESA: AND ACTUALLY, I WAS GOING TO CONCLUDE MY TALK WITH AN OUTREACH TO YOU GUYS
TO— YOU KNOW, WE PUT DOWN KEY STAKEHOLDERS, AND PART OF THE COMMENTS WE RECEIVED
YESTERDAY AS WE WOULD GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, ACTUALLY, OF DEFINING WHAT
STAKEHOLDERS MEANT TO US WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, TO THE EXTENT THERE ARE STAKEHOLDERS
THAT ARE LISTED—AND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE—WHO WILL BE KEY IN EITHER
DECIDING IT AND IMPLEMENTING IT AND OWNING IT. SO THAT IF YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS ON
WHO ELSE WE MIGHT, YOU KNOW, REACH OUT TO, PLEASE PUT YOUR RECOMMENDATION DOWN,
AND WE WOULD DEFINITELY APPRECIATE IT. I THINK BILL BROUGHT THAT UP EARLIER. BUT AS
YOU‘RE GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS WITH US, AS YOU THINK ABOUT OTHER STAKEHOLDERS
THAT ARE NOT IN THERE—I MEAN, CERTAINLY WE DIDN‘T THINK OF A LOT OF TRADE ORGANIZATIONS
THAT COULD PROBABLY MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN ACTUALLY MAKING IT WORK WOULD BE
HELPFUL TO US AS SO THAT AS WE‘RE GOING THROUGH FUTURE PLANNING PROCESSES THAT
THEY—YOU WOULD RECEIVE AN INVITATION TO PARTICIPATE AND ACTUALLY MAKE A BIG
DIFFERENCE TO THE STRATEGIC PLAN. SO ANYWAY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR ATTENTION. I
THINK IT‘S DON‘S TURN WITH INDUSTRIAL.

MR. ARAMBULA: I GUESS I DON‘T GET AN INTRODUCTION. MY NAME‘S DON ARAMBULA. I‘M FROM
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON. I‘LL ADMIT I DID NOT PARTICIPATE ON THE INDUSTRIAL SEGMENT
WORKSHOPS, BUT I DID PRESENT ON THEM LAST—YESTERDAY SO... THERE SEEMS—I THINK WE—
YESTERDAY WE HAD A—WE WEREN‘T SYNC‘D UP WITH OUR HARD COPY AND OUR SOFT COPY ON
THE POWERPOINT SLIDES, BUT I THINK WE ARE TODAY. FIRST OF ALL, I REALLY WANT TO TAKE TO
HEART MARK GAINES‘ SUGGESTION THAT WE DON‘T READ— WE REREAD OR READ TO YOU THE
POWERPOINT PRESENTATION; SO MY SEGMENT WILL BE RATHER BRIEF. BUT I DO WANT TO THINK
AMY MC CAIN FROM THE P— SHE‘S ONE OF THE CPUC CONVENERS WHO WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN
HELPING GUIDE THE WORKSHOPS THAT THE—THE STRATEGIC PLAN WAS BASED UPON. ALSO, I
WANT TO RECOGNIZE ZIYAD OVER HERE, AWAD (INDICATING) AND KEVIN SHORE WITH THE
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS— SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS WHO ARE ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS IN
THE—THIS SECTOR. THEY—THIS—THIS SEGMENT IS—WAS NOT LIKE RESIDENTIAL. THERE WASN‘T
AS MANY PARTICIPANTS BECAUSE THAT‘S THE INDUSTRY.         INDUSTRIALS ARE VERY LARGE
CUSTOMERS. THEY ARE VERY ENERGY-INTENSIVE CUSTOMERS, AND THEY HAVE SPECIAL NEEDS.
THE—THE VISION WE HAVE FOR THIS IN THE DRAFT STRATEGIC PLAN IS REALLY HAVE THAT
INDUSTRY EMBRACE ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND MAKE IT A COMPETITIVE EDGE OR ADVANTAGE IN
THAT INDUSTRY. THE INDUSTRY IS SOMEWHAT RISK AVERSE, VERY COST CONSCIOUS AND VERY
COMPETITIVE. AND WE FELT IF WE COULD DRIVE ENERGY EFFICIENCY AS A COMPETITIVE EDGE,
WE‘D BE MORE SUCCESSFUL, NOT SO MUCH IMPOSING CODES AND STANDARDS, BUT ATTRACTING
THE CUSTOMER OR THIS TYPE OF CUSTOMER TO ENERGY EFFICIENCY WAS KEY AND THE KEY
BEHIND WHAT YOU SEE HERE IN THE FOUR STRATEGIES. IT‘S ALSO REALLY NOT BASED ON

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EQUIPMENT, PER SE, OR A BUILDING. IT‘S REALLY FOCUSED ON PROCESS IMPROVEMENTS,
OPERATIONAL IMPROVEMENTS. THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY OPPORTUNITIES ARE EMBEDDED IN
THERE, NOT SO MUCH THE EQUIPMENT ITSELF BUT IN THE WAY YOU USE IT. SO LET ME GO OVER
THE FOUR KEY STRATEGIES THAT WE HAVE HERE, THE FIRST ONE BEING, REALLY, TRAINING THE
INDUSTRY OF PROFESSIONALS TO BETTER OPERATE OR—OPERATE THEIR—THEIR PROCESSES OR
SYSTEMS—REALLY, IT‘S AN ACTIVE ENGAGEMENT—AND HAVING THEM UNDERSTAND THAT—HOW
TO USE, MANAGE—OR MANAGE THEIR ENERGY MORE EFFICIENTLY, NOT JUST ONE TIME DURING
THE DAY BUT CONTINUOUSLY THROUGHOUT—NOT JUST ONE WEEK BUT THROUGHOUT THEIR—
THROUGHOUT THE YEAR AND OVER TIME. THIS IS TRAINING OF INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS, SUCH
AS THE PLANT ENGINEER, CONSULTANTS THEY MAY—THEY MAY USE, FOLKS LIKE THAT. YOU‘LL SEE
THAT TRAINING THREAD THROUGHOUT THESE SECTORS AND THESE DISCUSSIONS. WE HAVE
ANOTHER SECTOR, CROSS-CUTTING SECTOR, THAT DEALS WITH TRAINING SPECIFICALLY; SO WE‘LL
TALK ABOUT THAT MORE LATER TODAY. THE SECOND KEY STRATEGY WAS ABOUT PROCESS
IMPROVEMENTS, FOCUSING ON SPECIFIC, INTEGRATED PRODUCTS TO INCREASE OPERATIONAL
EFFICIENCY. IN THE NEAR TERM, WE‘RE LOOKING AT DEVELOPING PILOTS, PILOT DEMONSTRATION
PROJECTS, THAT COULD MEASURE AND SHOW EVIDENCE THAT THERE ARE EFFIC—ENERGY
EFFICIENCY OPPORTUNITIES IN PROCESS IMPROVEMENTS AND OPERATIONAL IMPROVEMENTS. WE
HAVE BEEN WORKING ON A FEW PILOTS OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS THAT LOOK INTO THIS, AND WE
WANT TO EXPAND THOSE EFFORTS. AND THE—THE OTHER THING IS A FOCUS ON CONTINUOUS
IMPROVEMENT THROUGH INFORMATION EXCHANGE BY CREATING A—KIND OF A CENTRALIZED,
TECHNICAL REGULATORY ASSISTANCE STRUCTURE TO HELP THE INDUSTRY REALIZE ITS SHARE
OPPORTUNITIES FOR CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT WITH REGARDS TO OPERATING THEIR FACILITIES.
THE—THE LAST ONE WAS THE RECOGNITION OF AB32 AND THE IMPACT ON A—OF AB32 ON THE
INDUSTRY AND HAVING THE INDUSTRY ACTIVELY ENGAGE IN THAT IMPLEMENTATION PROCESS
THROUGH WHAT WE‘RE CALLING THE CLIMATE ACTION TEAM FOR THAT INDUSTRY, MAKING THAT
THE DIRECT VOICE TO ENGAGE THE—THE
PLAYERS SUCH AS CARB IN AB32 IMPLEMENTATION. SO THAT‘S THE THREE-MINUTE DEMO TO THAT,
AND WE‘D RATHER HAVE—SPEND MORE TIME ON GETTING QUESTIONS AND CLARIFICATIONS AND
COMMENTS ON THIS SECTION; SO I‘LL OPEN THE FLOOR UP FOR QUESTIONS.

MR. NEEMAN: HI. THIS IS ROB NEEMAN WITH THE CALIFORNIA LEAGUE OF FOOD PROCESSORS IN
SACRAMENTO. I—I PARTICIPATED IN THE—I THINK MOST ALL OF THE INDUSTRIAL WORKING GROUP
MEETINGS AND—AND ALSO THE SPECIAL MEETING THAT WAS CONVENED FOR FOOD PROCESSORS,
AND I‘D LIKE TO THANK AMY MC CAIN AND DEBBIE MC GEE FOR THE GOOD JOB THEY DID ON
CONVENING THOSE MEETINGS AND—AND PREPARING THE REPORT.            JUST A LITTLE QUICK
BACKGROUND. I THINK PEOPLE KIND OF FORGET ABOUT THE FOOD PROCESSING SECTOR, BUT THE
INDUSTRY IS THE THIRD-LARGEST INDUSTRIAL USER OF NATURAL GAS IN THE STATE AND THE TOP
FIVE ON ELECTRICITY; SO WE HAVE A REAL STAKE IN—IN THE ENERGY MARKET AND ENERGY
PROGRAMS. AND I—I THINK AMY DID A GOOD JOB OF CAPTURING IT, AND THE REST OF THE PEOPLE
WHO PARTICIPATED IN PREPARING THE REPORT, SOME OF THE ISSUES, AND TWO I WOULD TOUCH
ON BRIEFLY. ONE, AB32. MANY OF OUR MEMBERS JUST HAVE—MOST OF THEIR ENERGY IS USED TO
RUN LARGE BOILERS AND—AND LARGE COMBUSTION EQUIPMENT AND— AND HOW THEY‘RE GOING
TO REDUCE CO2 EMISSIONS BY 20 TO 30 PERCENT FROM THAT EQUIPMENT BETWEEN NOW AND—
AND 2020 IS GOING TO BE CHALLENGE IF THEY‘RE GOING TO BE IN CONFORMANCE WITH AB32
STANDARDS. THE OTHER THING I THINK THAT AMY CAPTURED CORRECTLY IS THIS ISSUE OF
REGULATORY COMPLIANCE AND—AND MIXED SIGNALS FROM REGULATORS ABOUT THE USE OF
DIGESTERS AND OTHER THINGS THAT— ONE QUICK EXAMPLE I‘LL GIVE YOU IS THAT A—A LARGE
TOMATO PROCESSING PLANT MIGHT USE THREE MILLION GALLONS OF WATER A DAY. AND SO
THERE‘S A LOT OF WASTE WATER THAT TENDS TO BE SOMEWHAT SALINE, AND SO THEY‘RE UNDER
INTENSE REGULATORY PRESSURE FROM THE WATER BOARDS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.
AND—AND ONE SOLUTION THAT SOME ARE USING IS TO PUT IN BIG EVAPORATION UNITS THAT JUST
BOIL OFF THAT WATER AND GET RID OF IT. AND THE WATER BOARDS LOVE THAT AS A SOLUTION
BECAUSE THE—THE SALINE WATER ESSENTIALLY GOES AWAY. BUT OBVIOUSLY, FROM AN AIR
EMISSION STANDPOINT AND AN ENERGY CONSUMPTION STANDPOINT, THAT‘S NOT SUCH A—A—A
PEACHY SOLUTION TO—TO THAT PROBLEM. BUT I THINK FIRMS ARE STRUGGLING AS TO HOW TO
COMPLY WITH MANY OF THESE CONFLICTING AND DIFFICULT REGULATIONS. I JUST WANT TO CLOSE
BY PUTTING IN A PITCH. WE PREPARED A DRAFT PROPOSAL FOR A PILOT PROJECT FOR THE FOOD
PROCESSING INDUSTRY. AND AMY SUMMARIZED IT IN—IN A COUPLE OF PAGES THAT ARE LISTED AS

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A APPENDIX A AT BACK OF THE—THE ENTIRE REPORT. OUR OBJECTIVE IS—IS—IS TO TRY TO USE
THE FOOD PROCESSING INDUSTRY AS A—AS A GUINEA PIG, SHALL WE SAY, AS TO HOW SOME OF
THESE RECOMMENDATIONS COULD BE IMPLEMENTED. THEY‘RE TAKING ONE SECTOR AND
FOCUSING ON A FEW FIRMS, HOW COULD YOU REALLY MAKE SUBSTANTIVE IMPROVEMENTS IN
ENERGY EFFICIENCY? AND ACTUALLY, WE‘VE FOCUSED OUR PROPOSAL ON A LITTLE LARGER ISSUE
OF RESOURCE EFFICIENCY, AGAIN, BECAUSE THE INDUSTRY USES HUGE AMOUNTS OF WATER AND
IT TAKES A LOT OF ENERGY TO MOVE WATER; AND SECOND OF ALL, THE ENERGY—THE INDUSTRY
GENERATES A LOT OF SOLID WASTE PRODUCTS LIKE STEMS AND SEEDS AND PEELS, IT GETS—
ALTHOUGH THIS IS NOT AN EFFICIENCY ISSUE, THAT MATERIAL COULD GO THROUGH DIGESTERS TO
GENERATE GAS. BUT THAT‘S NOT REALLY BEING DONE NOW FOR A VARIETY OF REGULATORY AND
OTHER REASONS. SO I—I WON‘T BELABOR THIS, BUT WE‘VE PREPARED THE PROPOSAL, AND WE‘D
LIKE IT TO GET SOME CONSIDERATION BECAUSE WE THINK THAT THERE‘D BE SOME IMPORTANT
LESSONS LEARNED FROM THAT PILOT PROJECT, THAT ALTHOUGH THE FOOD PROCESSORS HAVE
SOME DIFFERENCES FROM OTHER INDUSTRIAL CUSTOMERS, THEY HAVE A LOT IN COMMON, AND—
AND WE THINK THERE‘D BE A GREAT PLATFORM FOR LEARNING HOW THE UTILITIES CAN DELIVER
NEW AND BETTER SERVICES AND INDUSTRIES CAN BECOME MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT. AND THAT‘S
SORT OF MY LONG-WINDED COMMENT.

MR. ARAMBULA: OH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND ACTUALLY, WE HAD—WE‘RE ACTUALLY REALLY
EXCITED ABOUT THE PILOT PROPOSAL. IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE WERE GLAD TO SEE, AND I
REALLY THINK ONE OF MANY OF THE UTILITIES WILL ACTUALLY PURSUE THAT PILOT AND THE
APPLICATION; SO I‘M GLAD TO HEAR YOUR SUPPORT FOR IT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NOT A LOT OF
INDUSTRIALS HERE, HUH? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THEN THE LAST SECTOR IS AGRICULTURAL, AND WE
HAVE BILL MILLER—OH, WE HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION. CATHY FOGEL FROM THE PUC.

MS. FOGEL: I KNOW YOU DIDN‘T LEAD OR MAYBE NECESSARILY EVEN PARTICIPATE IN THE
INDUSTRIAL SECTOR WORKSHOPS, DON, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE ISSUE OF COMBINED HEAT AND
POWER? WAS THAT RAISED? IS THAT A PART OF YOUR ALL‘S THINKING AS YOU MOVE FORWARD ON
THIS? IS IT—IT‘S AN ISSUE THAT‘S RAISED OFTEN IN OTHER PROCEEDINGS AND WORKSHOPS AT
THE PUC, AS YOU KNOW.

MR. ARAMBULA: YOU‘RE CORRECT. I DIDN‘T PARTICIPATE IN THIS WORKSHOP, BUT I HAVE
SOMEBODY HERE THAT DID; SO I‘LL TOSS IT OVER TO ZIYAD AWAD.

MR. MILLER: AND I HAVE A COMMENT, TOO.

MR. AWAD: WELL, ZIYAD AWAD, A-W-A-D. CHP COMES UP IN A NUMBER OF SECTORS. IT IS NOT, LIKE
REGULATORY COORDINATION, UNIQUE TO THE INDUSTRIAL SECTOR, SO CHP WE SORT OF
DEFERRED TO THE DSM COORDINATION AND INTEGRATION SECTION. BUT, SURE, CHP CAME UP FOR
A NUMBER OF INDUSTRIAL SITES. THOSE THAT HAVE BIG HEATING OPPORTUNITIES, THERMAL
OPPORTUNITIES, ARE ALWAYS INTERESTED IN CHP. BUT AGAIN, IT JUST WASN‘T INCLUDED IN THIS
SECTOR BECAUSE IT‘S—IT‘S NOT UNIQUE TO INDUSTRY, BUT IT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE
MOST INDUSTRIAL CUSTOMERS‘ THOUGHTS. ALSO, JUST TO RESPOND TO OUR—OUR TELEPHONE
SPEAKER. REGULATORY COORDINATION WAS CLEARLY VIEWED AS IMPORTANT BY MOST OF THE
INDUSTRIAL CUSTOMERS WE SPOKE TO AND BY MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO PARTICIPATED IN
THOSE SESSIONS. AGAIN, IT ISN‘T UNIQUE TO THE INDUSTRIAL SECTOR; SO IT CEASED TO BE A
SPECIFIC STRATEGY WITH AN INDUSTRY, BUT IT‘S—IT‘S VERY MUCH ONE OF THE—THE POLICY
CONSIDERATIONS THAT THE UTILITIES ARE GOING TO BE TALKING TO THE CPUC AND—AND OTHER
COMMISSIONS ABOUT, INCLUDING THE CEC AND THE CARB; SO ALL OF THOSE ARE RECOGNIZED.

MR. ARAMBULA: THANK YOU. BILL.

MR. MILLER: THANK YOU, DON. BILL MILLER, HERE TO TALK ABOUT AGRICULTURE. BEFORE I DO,
LET‘S GET—OH, WE‘RE ON AGRICULTURE.        CATHY, THE CURRENT DEFINITION OF ENERGY
EFFICIENCY IN THE POLICY RULES IS CLOSE TO BEING EXCLUSIVELY FOCUSED ON THE END USE;
THAT IS, ITS EFFICIENCY IN TERMS OF MY CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE, IN TERMS OF COMFORT IN MY
HOME.     AND TYPICALLY, THE COMMISSION HAS PUT—COMBINED HEAT AND POWER WITH
DISTRIBUTED GEN OR OTHER—OR OTHER AREAS AND DEALT WITH IT IN OTHER AREAS. THERE ARE

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OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY THAT CONSIDER COMBINED HEAT AND POWER AND ENERGY
EFFICIENCY ACTIVITY, AND I BELIEVE IT‘S NEW JERSEY OR PENNSYLVANIA, BUT A MID-ATLANTIC
STATE. SO IN TERMS OF THE COORDINATION AND INTEGRATION, I THINK IT‘S SOMETHING THAT CAN
LOOK AT—BE LOOKED AT GOING FORWARD, BUT IT ADDS SIGNIFICANTLY TO THE COMPLEXITY OF
THE QUESTION IN THE SENSE OF HOW MUCH OF THE LOCAL LOAD IS SERVED, WHAT ARE THE SELL-
BACK OPPORTUNITIES, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE EFFICIENCY OF THE POWER PRODUCTION
PART, THE STEAM PRODUCTION PART, THE PART WHERE THE STEAM GOES OVER INTO THE
PROCESSING FACILITY? SO IT‘S A—TURNS INTO A FAIRLY COMPLEX SET OF PROBLEMS THAT HAVE
TO BE DEALT WITH. AND HISTORICALLY, WE‘VE JUST EFFIC— THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY SIDE HAS
JUST FOCUSED ON THE END USE EFFICIENCY, HOW—YOU KNOW, HOW—HOW EFFICIENT WAS THE
TOMATO PROCESSING UNIT, FOR EXAMPLE. AND THAT‘S NOT TO SAY IT CAN‘T BE OPENED UP IN THE
FUTURE. BUT I AM HERE TO TALK ABOUT AGRICULTURE. AND DO WE STILL HAVE OUR CALIFORNIA
LEAGUE OF FOOD PROCESSORS PERSON?

MR. NEEMAN: AH, YES, I‘M HERE.

MR. MILLER: GOOD. THEN YOU—YOU—YOU KNOW AS MUCH AS I DO OR MORE, BUT THE TRACKS
WERE LED BY—LET ME TALK ABOUT THAT—THE TRACKS WERE LED BY PETE CONESSSA (PHONETIC
SPELLING), WHO IS AT THE CENTER FOR IRRIGATION TECHNOLOGY AT—AT CSU FRESNO AND HAS
BEEN ACTIVE IN THE—I KNOW HE‘S BEEN INVOLVED WITH OUR PROGRAMS HISTORICALLY IN TERMS
OF IRRIGATION AND—AND PUMP EFFICIENCY AND HAS BEEN INVOLVED FOR A LONG TIME. THEY
HELD A NUMBER OF MEETINGS THROUGHOUT THE STATE. AND THERE WAS THIS ISSUE—AND
AGAIN, I WASN‘T THERE BUT I—BUT I HEARD LOUD AND CLEAR—THERE WAS THIS ISSUE OF WHERE
DID THE FOOD PROCESSORS SIT? AND FROM PG&E‘S PERSPECTIVE, WE TYPICALLY HAVE INCLUDED
THEM IN THE AGRICULTURAL SECTOR, BUT THE NATURE OF THE PROCESS WE WERE IN THIS TIME
WAS TO INCLUDE THEM ON THE INDUSTRIAL SIDE. AND THERE WAS THIS COMBINED—OR THIS—THIS
ONE WORKSHOP THAT FOCUSED SPECIFICALLY ON THOSE ISSUES BECAUSE—TO HIGHLIGHT THEM
BECAUSE PG&E AGREES THAT THE FOOD PROCESSORS, PARTICULARLY IN PG&E SERVICE
TERRITORY, ARE A BIG DEAL. IT‘S NO QUESTION THEY‘RE A BIG DEAL. BUT TO SUMMARIZE WHERE
THE OVERALL AG TRACK CAME OUT WAS—AND—AND LIKE INDUSTRIAL, THIS WAS AN AREA THAT,
BESIDES THE OTHER THINGS THAT WERE COMPONENTS OF VISIONS, THIS WAS AN AREA WHERE THE
ECONOMIC VIABILITY OF THE INDUSTRY WAS RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE—OF THE—OF THE AGENDA
AND—AND THE GENTLEMAN FROM THE LEAGUE OF FOOD PROCESSORS CAN SPEAK TO IT MORE
THAN ME, BUT AS I HEARD IT—AND I—THIS WAS NOT NEW, BUT AS I HEARD IT, WE BASICALLY—IN
CALIFORNIA, WE BASICALLY VIEW OURSELVES AS IN COMPETITION GLOBALLY AND THAT WHILE WE
MAY BE LARGE PRODUCERS IN CERTAIN AREAS WORLDWIDE OR EVEN DOMINANT PRODUCERS
WORLDWIDE, THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT WE ALSO DON‘T SEE THE PROSPECT OF EXTREMELY COST-
COMPETITIVE COMPETITION FROM OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. AND, IN FACT, IT WAS TOMATO
PROCESSING THAT CAME BACK TO ME AS A NEW EXAMPLE IN THIS PARTICULAR ROUND, THOUGH I‘D
HEARD OTHER EXAMPLES PREVIOUSLY THAT, IN FACT, THERE ARE AREAS OF CHINA THAT COULD
GO INTO PROCESSED TOMATO PRODUCTION AND BE VERY COMPETITIVE WITH US. AND SO IN A
SENSE, BESIDES ALL THE OTHER CONCERNS ABOUT AB32 COMPLIANCE AND THE BROAD SET OF
COMPLIANCES THAT THIS SECTOR HAS TO DEAL WITH, THERE‘S THE PROSPECT OF GLOBAL
COMPETITION. SO THAT‘S AN ADDITIONAL FACTOR THAT PLAYED INTO THE CONSIDERATIONS IN—IN
THIS PARTICULAR AREA. THE—THE GROUP QUICKLY FOUND THAT GATHERING DATA FOR THE
AGRICULTURAL SECTOR AS A WHOLE, FOOD PROCESSORS EXCLUDED, SINCE THEY WERE
CONSIDERED IN INDUSTRIAL WAS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT, THAT THE DATA THAT EXISTED IN
DIFFERENT PLACES AND WAS HELD BY DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS OR INDUSTRIES, AND THAT
REALLY HAMPERED THEIR ABILITY TO GET AN OVERALL PICTURE OF WHERE THE INDUSTRY—WHERE
THE SECTOR WAS, I SHOULD SAY—WHERE THE SECTOR WAS AND WHERE IT COULD GO. SO THEIR
FIRST KEY STRATEGY WAS REALLY A DEVELOPMENT—A DATA DEVELOPMENT PROCESS THAT
WOULD LAY THE FOUNDATION FOR SOME FUTURE GOAL SETTING IN TERMS OF JUST WHAT ENERGY
WAS BEING USED, HOW IT WAS BEING USED, WHAT WERE THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR IMPROVEMENT.
AND THERE MAY BE SOMETHING THAT COMES OUT OF THE POTENTIAL STUDIES THAT ARE COMING
UP THAT WILL INFORM THAT, BUT IN TERMS OF WHERE THE WORKSHOP PROCESS WAS IS THEY
WERE—THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO GET TO WHERE THEY WANTED—WANTED TO BE. SO THAT WAS
THEIR FIRST STRATEGY WAS TO PURSUE— PURSUE THAT. THE SECOND ONE WAS THAT IN
AGRICULTURE, NARROWLY DEFINED, THERE WERE SORT OF THREE MAJOR USES OF ENERGY THAT

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THEY IDENTIFIED, AND IT‘S WATER PUMPING, IT‘S CHILLING, AND IT‘S EATING IN TERMS OF THE
INITIAL STAGES OF FOOD—OF—OF PROCESSING FOOD BEFORE IT ACTUALLY GETS TO THE FOOD
PROCESSING FACILITIES. SO THEY FOCUSED IN ON THOSE THREE END USES OR THREE ACTIVITIES
AND THAT THEY WOULD FOCUS IN ON THOSE, AND AGAIN, IT‘S A PROCESS OF—WELL, AND HERE
AGAIN THE ISSUE OF EM&V AND BENCH— BENCHMARKS CAME UP; THAT IS, WHAT—WHAT IS THE
STANDARD, AND WHAT COULD YOU MOVE TO? SO THAT, AGAIN, WAS A—AN OBSTACLE THAT THEY
FACED. AND A PROCESS TO COME TO THOSE OR SURVEY TO ASSESS WHAT THOSE ARE WAS—WAS
SEEN TO BE IMPORTANT SO THAT YOU—SO THAT YOU COULD IDENTIFY THESE PRO—THESE
PROCESSES IN TERMS OF PUMPING OR CHILLING OR EVEN HEATING IN TERMS OF WHAT
IMPROVEMENTS YOU COULD MAKE AND HOW TO MEASURE THEM SO THAT YOU COULD IDENTIFY
THE PROMISING TECHNOLOGIES AND MOVE THEM FORWARD. THE THIRD AREA HAD TO DO WITH
THE PERCEPTION THAT IT WAS GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF MONEY TO DO THIS. AND SO IT WAS A
SENSE OF WHAT WERE THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO AGRICULTURE TO MAKE THESE
IMPROVEMENTS WHEN THE IMPROVEMENTS BECAME IDENTIFIED, WHAT FEDERAL LOAN PROGRAMS,
PRIVATE LOAN PROGRAMS, OTHER FORMS OF FINANCING, OTHER FORMS OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT,
WHAT COULD THEY BE, AND TO GATHER THOSE TOGETHER SO THERE WAS A CLEARINGHOUSE,
CLEAR INFORMATION, EASIER ACCESS TO SUPPORT THE TRANSITION THAT THE INDUSTRY SAW—
THAT THE WORKSHOP SAW THAT THE SECTOR WAS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE AS IT MOVED
FORWARD. AND THE LAST AREA WAS A PERCEPTION THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, BOTH
FOCUSED AND WIDER EDUCATION THAT WOULD BE EXTREMELY USEFUL IN TERMS OF FARMERS,
FARM MANAGEMENT, KNOWLEDGE ABOUT BEST— BETTER PRACTICES—IF YOU DON‘T KNOW THE
EM&V, IT‘S HARD TO KNOW BEST PRACTICES—BUT AT LEAST BETTER PRACTICES; EDUCATION THAT
THEY WERE AVAILABLE; EDUCATION THAT THEY WERE IMPORTANT, SO BOTH TECHNICAL
EDUCATION AS WELL AS A WIDER KIND OF EDUCATION ABOUT WHAT THE OPPORTUNITIES AND
IMPORTANCE WERE. SO THOSE WERE THE FOUR STRATEGIES THAT BASICALLY CAME INTO THIS,
YOU KNOW, SECTOR FROM—FOR THIS SECTOR. COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?

MR. ECKHART: YEAH, BILL—I‘M SORRY. TOM ECKHART WITH UCONS. WATER, OBVIOUSLY, IS A—IS A
MAJOR ISSUE ON THE AGRICULTURAL SECTOR, AS IT IS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE—THE OVERALL
PLAN. IT SEEMED THAT IN THE 2006, ‗7 AND ‗8 PLANNING PROCESS THERE WAS A—A CLOSE
INTEGRATION BETWEEN CEE AND THE CPUC ON JOINT WATER/ENERGY TYPE PROGRAMS. I DIDN‘T
SEE THAT IN THE CURRENT STRATEGIC PLAN. IS THERE ANY REASON WHY THAT IS THE CASE?

MR. MILLER: I‘LL SAY A COUPLE THINGS, TOM. ONE IS—IS THAT THE COMMISSION DID EMBARK UPON
SEVERAL PILOTS, WATER ENERGY PILOTS THAT WERE AUTHORIZED NOT TOO LONG AGO. THEY ARE
RATHER LOCALLY FOCUSED IN THE SENSE THAT THEY HAVE TO DO WITH THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR
WATER SAVINGS THAT ARE BOTH WITHIN AN IOU AND A WATER DISTRICT‘S JOINT TERRITORIES AND
THERE‘S—SO THOSE PILOTS WILL CONTINUE. SO THE—THE GENERAL GUIDANCE WAS TO WAIT FOR
THE OUTCOME OF THOSE PILOTS TO TALK ABOUT INCORPORATING WATER AND ENERGY IN FUTURE
ROUNDS OF THE PLAN. BUT I‘LL ADD A PERSONAL NOTE. I THINK THERE WAS A—A REALIZATION IN
THIS PROCESS THAT THE—THIS WHOLE WATER/ENERGY/CEC/CPUC PROCESS AS IT WENT ON, THAT
THERE WAS NOT A—AS—ON BOTH THE WATER AND ENERGY SIDE—AND I WENT TO A NUMBER OF
WORKSHOPS THAT WERE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF INFORMATION SHARING; THAT IS,
HOW THE WATER AGENCIES VIEW THE WORLD AND THEIR ENERGY USE, AND HOW ELECTRIC
UTILITIES VIEW THE WORLD AND—AND WATER USE, YOU KNOW, DIDN‘T OVERLAP. BUT A LOT OF THE
ENERGY USED IN WATER, USED TO MOVE WATER, HAS TO DO WITH MOVING WATER FROM
NORTHERN TO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, AND IT‘S NOT CPUC JURISDICTIONAL UTILITIES THAT OWN
THAT ELECTRICITY. SO THERE‘S SOME ADDITIONAL COMPLEXITIES IN DEALING WITH WATER AND
ENERGY ON A STATEWIDE BASIS THAT‘S GOING TO INVOLVE ADDITIONAL PARTNERSHIPS,
ADDITIONAL STAKEHOLDERS, KIND OF ALL OF THE—ALL OF—ALL OF THE REST OF THAT SO...

MR. ECKHART: THAT WAS VERY HELPFUL, BILL. AND THIS COMMENT WILL BE ON—ON BEHALF OF
NASCO. I‘M GOING TO SEPARATE THE ISSUE OF EMBEDDED WATER COSTS AND—AND ADDITIONAL
PUMPING POWER FOR GETTING WATER DOWN TO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, WHICH IS PROBABLY
HIGHER THAN IT IS IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA, FROM THE COST EFFECTIVENESS ISSUES ON— ON
PROGRAMS. I SEE A LOT OF SMART M&V GURUS AND ECONOMETRIC PEOPLE IN THE ROOM AS WELL
AS FROM THE UTILITIES. THE USERS OF—OF WATER UTILITIES AS WELL AS—AS ENERGY AND GAS,
IF PROGRAMS DO SAVE THE CUSTOMER ON WATER AS WELL AS ENERGY AND—AND ELECTRIC AND
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GAS, THE CURRENT STANDARD PRACTICE MANUAL IS SUPPOSED TO CREDIT AN OVERALL COST
EFFECTIVENESS FOR THE REDUCTION IN THE PARTICIPANT COST FOR—FOR SAVINGS IN—IN WATER.
THAT IS NOT CURRENTLY BEING DONE, AND WE‘LL JUST THROW OUT COMMENTS THAT FOR FUTURE
COST EFFECTIVENESS CALCULATIONS, THAT‘S QUITE ASIDE FROM EMBEDDED WATER COSTS,
BECAUSE WE HAVEN‘T GOT THE PILOTS IN FROM THAT. BUT JUST ON A—ON A DAY-TO-DAY
PROGRAM BASIS, IF A PARTICIPANT CAN SHOW REDUCED WATER SAVINGS THAT IS, OUR
UNDERSTANDING, IT‘S SUPPOSED TO BE IN AN INCLUDED IN OVERALL PRC TEST.

MR. MILLER: OKAY. WE‘LL LOOK FOR THOSE— WE‘LL LOOK FOR THOSE COMMENTS. HAZLYN, I
THINK YOU...

MS. FORTUNE: YEAH, BILL, I WANTED TO GET A SENSE OF—YOU SAID—YOU—YOU BEGAN YOUR
PRESENTATION BY POINTING OUT THAT FOR FOOD PRODUCTS YOU—PG&E INCLUDES FOOD
PROCESSING COMPANIES WITHIN THE CATEGORY OF AGRICULTURE OR—

MR. MILLER: TYPICALLY, YES, FROM—FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF OUR—OF OUR EFFICIENCY
PROGRAMS. YEAH, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF OUR—OF OUR EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS.

MS. FORTUNE: WHAT ELSE—WHAT ELSE IS UNDER THAT, THEN?

MR. MILLER: FOR—FOR AGRICULTURE?

MS. FORTUNE: FOR AGRICULTURE, YES.

MR. MILLER: DAIRIES, A LOT OF WATER PUMPING. IT GETS BACK TO THE—IF YOU—THE THREE END
USES THAT WE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE—THAT I IDENTIFIED, THERE IS A LOT OF AGRICULTURAL-
SPECIFIC WATER PUMPING.

MS. FORTUNE: UH-HUH.

MR. MILLER: IN THE CENTRAL AND SOUTH VALLEY THERE‘S A LOT OF DEEP—DEEP WELL PUMPING
THAT INVOLVES ELECTRIC, SOMETIMES DIESEL, BUT CURRENTLY A LOT OF ELECTRICAL PUMPING.
THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENS IS THAT AS FOOD IS—IS PICKED, IT‘S OFTEN, YOU KNOW,
TREATED TO—TO HOLD IT AT—AT A PARTICULAR POINT. SO THEY‘LL CHILL GRAPES AS THEY PICK
THEM TO HOLD THEM AT OPTIMUM FRESH—FRESHNESS, THINGS LIKE THAT. SO THAT WAS THE—
THOSE WERE THE OTHER TWO END USES THAT—THAT I MENTIONED IN TERMS OF THE—THAT WERE
MORE ON THE AGRICULTURAL END OF ENERGY USE. BUT I THINK WHAT WE SEE IS THE DOMINANT
ONE IS EITHER SMALL PUMPING MOTOR TRANSPORT, LIKE YOU‘VE GOT TO MOVE THE NUTS FROM
THE TRUCK INTO THE HULLER; YOU‘VE GOT TO MOVE THE MILK FROM THE—YOU KNOW, THROUGH A
PROCESS—WELL, YOU MILK THE COWS AND THEN YOU MOVE IT THROUGH A PROCESS. SO THERE‘S
A LOT OF SORT OF SMALL-SCALE APPLICATIONS OF ENERGY ON FARM, AND THEN THE OTHER ONE
IS—IS WATER PUMPING—

MR. FORTUNE: RIGHT.

MR. MILLER: -- FOR YOUR—FOR YOUR—

MS. FORTUNE: SO YOU‘VE GOT DAIRIES AND THEN—

MR. MILLER: DAIRIES, NUTS, FRUITS, VEGETABLES, CORN, JUST—YOU KNOW, YOU NAME IT.

MS. FORTUNE: SO YOU‘VE GOT WATER USES AND THE ENERGY ASSOCIATED WITH THAT JUST
CONVEYING, COOLING, CHILLING, HEATING, IF—IF IT‘S APPROPRIATE TO THE—TO THE PROCESS,
AND THEN YOU‘VE GOT JUST THE ENERGY USE OF A CONVEYOR BELT, THINGS LIKE THAT.

MR. MILLER: UH-HUH.



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MS. FORTUNE: SO FOR PG&E‘S CURRENT EE PROGRAMS UNDER THE AGRICULTURAL SECTOR, IS IT
PUMPING FOCUSED OR WHAT ARE THE OTHER—I JUST WANT TO GET A SENSE OF THE NON-FOOD
PROCESSING AGRICULTURAL EE PROGRAMS THAT ARE CURRENTLY THERE.

MR. MILLER: THAT ARE CURRENTLY THERE?

MS. FORTUNE: RIGHT.

MR. MILLER: SO AS—AS I WOULD UNDERSTAND IT, ESSENTIALLY ANYTIME SOMEONE WANTED TO
INSTALL A MORE EFFICIENT MOTOR, WE BASICALLY WOULD GIVE A REBATE FOR THAT MOTOR. THE
MOTOR COULD BE ON A CONVEYOR BELT, COULD BE ON A PUMP. IF THEY WANTED—I‘M NOT SURE IF
WE DO PUMP TESTING ANYMORE—MR. CONESSA PROBABLY KNOWS IF WE DO PUMP TESTING
ANYMORE. WE HISTORICALLY HAVE DONE, YOU KNOW, PUMPING TESTING— AND PUMP PART
IMPROVEMENTS, YOU KNOW, TO BRING PUMPS BACK TO SPEC. HISTORICALLY WE‘VE DONE THAT. I
DON‘T KNOW IF WE‘RE ACTUALLY DOING THAT TODAY. SO THE TRUTH IS WHAT I‘D LIKE TO DO IS GET
BACK TO YOU WITH A SORT OF EXPLICIT LIST OF WHAT WE OFFER TODAY, BUT THOSE TYPICALLY
HAVE BEEN THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE WOULD DO. WE‘VE DONE—A COUPLE YEARS AGO I
KNOW WE DID A LOT OF WORK WITH DAIRIES IN—BASICALLY, IN TERMS OF SUCTION VACUUMING
SYSTEMS THAT ARE USED TO TRANSPORT MILK AROUND A DAIRY FROM THE MOTOR INTO THE—
THROUGH ALL OF THOSE TECHNOLOGIES. SO THAT‘S A PARTIAL ANSWER, AND IT‘S MY HOMEWORK
TO GET YOU A MORE COMPLETE ANSWER.

MS. FORTUNE: THANKS.

MR. MILLER: OKAY.

MS. FORTUNE: FOR SEMPRA AND EDISON, I WANT TO GET A SENSE OF IF THAT‘S SIMILAR. DO YOU
INCLUDE FOOD PROCESSING UNDER THE AGRICULTURAL CATEGORY, OR WHAT‘S YOUR MIX OF
WHAT‘S UNDER AGRICULTURE?

MR. GAINES: SPEAKING FOR SEMPRA, WE HAVE MUCH LESS AGRICULTURAL BASE DOWN HERE,
AND CERTAINLY IN THE GAS SIDE, IT‘S—IT‘S NOT ELECTRIC PUMPING. OUR PRIMARY ACTIVITY—AND
AT THIS POINT, WE HAVE NOT SEGREGATED OUR PROGRAMS BY SECTOR LIKE THAT. WE HAVE
CUSTOMIZED PROGRAMS THAT CROSS ALL SECTORS. WE‘RE MOVING TOWARDS MORE SEGMENT
BASED. IN THE GAS SIDE, THE BIGGEST AGRICULTURAL ACTIVITY WE DO IS GREENHOUSE GAS
CURTAINS, WHICH DEALS WITH GROWERS OF PRIMARILY PLANTS. THERE ARE FLOWERS UP IN THE
NORTH COAST AREA OF OUR SERVICE TERRITORY. AND THAT‘S MAINLY JUST TO LOWER THE
VOLUME OF—OF HEATED AREA THAT THEY NEEDED TO KEEP THE PLANTS WARM. SAN DIEGO, WE
HAVE A VERY SMALL AGRICULTURAL MARKET DOWN THERE; SO I CAN‘T EVEN THINK OF A SPECIFIC
SEGMENT THAT WE GO AFTER FOR THAT.

MR. ARAMBULA: AND—AND FOR SCE—I‘M SORRY.         DON ARAMBULA, SCE. FOR SOUTHERN
CALIFORNIA EDISON, WE HAVE A DEDICATED AGRICULTURAL PROGRAM AS WELL. THE
AGRICULTURAL CUSTOMERS CAN PARTICIPATE IN ANY OF THE NON-RESIDENTIAL INCENTIVE
PROGRAMS, SUCH AS, LET‘S SEE, FAR AS CONTRACTING, EXPRESS EFFICIENCY. WE DO—DO HAVE
TARGETED PROGRAMS FOR THEM. SO WE‘RE NOT AS SEGMENTED AS PG&E CURRENTLY IN OUR
PORTFOLIO APPROACH.

MS. FORTUNE: SO THEY WOULD BE—HAVE ACCESS TO PROGRAMS LIKE A SMALL COMMERCIAL
USER? I‘M JUST TRYING TO GET A SENSE IF THAT‘S WHAT YOU MEANT.

MR. ARAMBULA: ABSOLUTELY. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE‘LL WORK WITH THE CUSTOMER TO SEE WHERE
THEY FIT, WHAT—WHAT BEST—WHAT PROGRAM BEST SUITS THEIR NEEDS. BUT WE DO HAVE
FOCUSED PROGRAMS ON PUMPING AND, LET‘S SAY, YOU KNOW, GOLF COURSES IN THE
AGRICULTURAL SECTOR; SO IT‘S A COMBINATION OF BOTH.

MS. FORTUNE: OKAY. THANK YOU.

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MR. MILLER: HAZLYN, DAN BROUGHT ME FLYERS FROM OUR AGRICULTURAL PROGRAM; SO LET ME
CARRY THEM ACROSS THE ROOM TO YOU.

MR. NEMTZOW: WHILE HE DOES THAT, WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE OFFICIAL POSITION
OF THE STRATEGIC PLANNING WORKSHOP, TO QUOTE BILL MILLER, IS MOVE THE NUTS UNTIL THE
COWS COME HOME. AND WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION—DO YOU ANOTHER QUESTION?

MS. COLLART:     YES.  CHERYL COLLART, VENTURA COUNTY REGIONAL ENERGY ALLIANCE.
AGRICULTURAL IS OUR NUMBER ONE INDUSTRY AND BUSINESS IN OUR COUNTY, AND I THINK TO
SPEAK TO THE QUESTION THAT‘S BEEN ASKED BY HAZLYN AND OTHERS, THERE—AND WHAT I SEE
MISSING ON SOME OF THE STAKEHOLDER ISSUE HERE—IS THE RELATIONSHIP OF BETTER
COORDINATION BETWEEN GAS AND ELECTRIC REBATES AND INCENTIVES AND BETTER EDUCATION
AND COORDINATION BETWEEN SCHOOLS LIKE UC DAVIS, CAL POLY, SAN LUIS OBISPO, AND OUR
TEACHING SCHOOLS ON OUR AG EDUCATION, AG EXTENSION SO THAT THERE‘S BETTER
COMMUNICATION, THERE‘S BETTER OPPORTUNITIES TO ADVANCE THE PILOTS, AND ALSO TO WORK
WITH OUR FUNDING WITH OUR FARM BUREAUS, OUR FARM CREDIT GROUPS, AND SO ON SO THAT
THERE‘S A COMBINATION—I THINK THAT WAS SPOKEN TO EARLIER TODAY ABOUT DEVELOPING
FINANCING, BUT CERTAINLY TO HAVE CAPABILITY TO FINANCE WHEN YOU MAYBE LOSE YOUR CROP
TO BAD WEATHER. THERE‘S A LOT OF DIFFICULT ISSUES THERE. SO PROBABLY ISSUES OF
FINANCING SO THAT THERE‘S A GUARANTEE OF SOME WAYS IN WHICH TO LEVERAGE MONIES
THROUGH THESE SYSTEMS TO MAKE SURE THINGS ARE EFFICIENT. AND THEN A FINAL COMMENT
IS—I‘M NOT QUITE SURE HOW IT FITS IN EXACTLY BECAUSE, AGAIN, I REALIZE THIS IS AN ENERGY
EFFICIENCY APPROACH, BUT THERE ARE ADDITIONAL ISSUES WITH AG THAT ARE RELATED TO HOW
TO DEAL WITH WASTE, AND IF THAT CAN BE CONVERTED INTO SOME OTHER FORMS OF ENERGY,
HOW TO TRUCK AND MANAGE THAT, TRANSPORTATION. SO THERE‘S A LOT OF ENERGY-RELATED
ISSUES THAT GO WITH AGRICULTURE THAT—HOW IT GETS INTEGRATED AND HOW IT GETS PUT
TOGETHER SO IT‘S REALLY USEFUL. I‘D JUST RAISE IT AS AN ISSUE. I‘M NOT NECESSARILY
CRITICIZING ANY PIECE OR ANY OF THE STRATEGIES AT THE MOMENT BUT JUST AGAIN RAISE THAT
THE INTEGRATION AND LEVERAGE ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO MAKING SUCCESSFUL ADVANCES IN
THIS AREA.

MR. MILLER: THANK YOU. AND I—I THINK THAT WAS THEIR SENSE WHEN THEY PUT ―ASSESS
POTENTIAL FOR RENEWABLE ENERGY.‖ AND IT TIES BACK TO THE COMMENT ABOUT OTHER—
PROCESSING OTHER FORMS OF WASTE AND—YES. BUT I ASKED—I ALSO WANTED TO ASK IN TERMS
OF CONNECTIONS WITH COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES, IS IT THAT THE GRADUATES WHO—WHO
FIND JOBS OR— OR TAKE COURSES THAT ARE AGRICULTURE RELATED DON‘T SEE THE EFFICIENCY
COMPONENT IN THEIR CURRICULUM OR—IS IT THAT OR SOMETHING ELSE OR... MS. COLLART:
MAYBE JUST TO EXPAND ON THAT, I THINK THERE‘S OPPORTUNITIES FOR AG BUSINESS MAJORS,
BUT THOSE AG BUSINESS MAJORS ALSO NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE FINANCE AND THE WAY IN
WHICH ENERGY IMPACTS THAT PARTICULAR—WHETHER IT‘S WATER ENERGY, ELECTRICAL, GAS AND
OTHER COMPONENTS. SO IT JUST SEEMS TO ME LIKE THAT WAS A BIT OF A MISSING PIECE THERE.
AND THERE ARE SOME GREAT SCHOOLS THAT WE HAVE IN OUR STATE THAT MAY BE ABLE TO
PARTNER UP AND LINK SOME PILOTS.

MR. MILLER: THANK YOU. AND—AND SOMETHING THAT I DIDN‘T, YOU KNOW, TOUCH UPON THAT
CAME UP HERE AS WELL AS IN— AS IN INDUSTRIAL—AND YOU TOUCHED ON IT—IS THE—THE FACT
THAT THE CUSTOMER FACES EFFICIENCY, FRESH WATER, WASTE WATER, YOU KNOW, A WHOLE
SPECTRUM THAT ARE NOT ALL CPUC REGULATED THAT INVOLVE BOTH STATE AND LOCAL
REGULATION AND FIND THAT—THAT CAME UP AS AN ISSUE ON—IN BOTH OF THOSE TWO AREAS.
BUT I—I WANTED TO MOVE ON TO OUR FIRST CROSS-CUTTING, WHICH WAS THE HEATING, VENT—
VENTILATION AND AIR CONDITIONING TRACK OR SECTOR. AND THIS ONE—THIS ONE PROCEEDED A
LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY FROM THE PREVIOUS FOUR IN THAT STATE LEGISLATION REQUIRED THE—
THE CALIFORNIA ENERGY COMMISSION TO PROVIDE A REPORT TO THE LEGISLATURE. SO EVEN
BEFORE THE OTHER TRACKS BEGAN IN THE STRATEGIC PLAN UNDER THE CPUC‘S DIRECTION,
THERE HAD BEGUN A PROCESS LED BY MIKE MESSENGER FROM THE CEC AND HE WAS JOINED BY
ANN PRIMO (PHONETIC SPELLING) FROM THE CPUC IN TERMS OF WORKING ON THIS REPORT, AND
THEY DEVELOPED A STAKEHOLDER PROCESS WAS SORT OF ALREADY IN—IN—IN ACTION BY THE
TIME THESE OTHER TRACKS BEGAN. AND THEY PRODUCED A REPORT, AND THE REPORT WAS

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PROVIDED TO THE CPUC. AND IN THE MATERIALS FOR THE STRATEGIC PLAN, WHAT YOU SEE IS THE
DRAFT REPORT. AND IT‘S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT, IN FACT, THE CP—THE CEC HASN‘T YET
FINAL— FINALIZED THAT REPORT AND POSTED IT, BUT, IN FACT, IT WAS FROM THAT DRAFT REPORT
THAT WE DREW THE FOUR STRATEGIES THAT YOU SEE IN THIS STRATEGIC PLAN THAT—THAT YOU
HAVE WITH YOU TODAY. AND THE—THE MOTIVATION IS—IS THAT AIR CONDITIONING—WELL, WHEN I
BEGAN, AIR CONDITIONING WAS A PEAK ISSUE, AND AIR CONDITIONING HAS BECOME A BIGGER PEAK
ISSUE AND ADDED—AND ADDED THE DIMENSION OF BEING AN ENERGY ISSUE AS THE NUMBER OF
HOURS IN WHICH IT‘S OPERATED IS EXPANDING IN THE HOTTER CLIMATES IN THE STATE, AS THE
POPULATION FLOWS INTO THE HOTTER CLIMATES IN THE STATE. SO THE FOUR STRATEGIES IN
THIS—IN THIS TRACK REALLY ARE AS FOLLOWS—AND THE FIRST— AND THIS IS NOT A NEW THEME.
IN FACT, MARSHALL HUNT WAS TALKING TO ME ABOUT IT BEFORE THE—BEFORE THE MEETING.
THERE‘S A—THERE‘S A—A CLEAR INDICATION THAT THE FEDERAL SPECIFICATION THAT MEASURES
EFFICIENCY FOR AIR CONDITIONERS IS NOT ADAPTED TO A HOT, DRY CLIMATE AS WE HAVE IN
CALIFORNIA, BUT FOR A NOT-QUITE-SO-HOT HUMID CLIMATE AND THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE
MUCH MORE EFFICIENT AIR CONDITIONING IF WE WERE TO HAVE AIR CONDITIONERS THAT WERE
MEASURED IN TERMS OF THEIR EFFICIENCY IN A CLIMATE APPROPRIATE TO CALIFORNIA AND OTHER
HOT, DRY CLIMATE. SO, IN FACT, SOMETHING THAT WE—WE DIDN‘T KNOW AND I DON‘T KNOW IF IT
WAS IN THE REPORT WAS, IN FACT, THERE‘S INITIATIVES BEGUN TO DEVELOP TWO STANDARDS OR
MULTIPLE STANDARDS APPROPRIATE FOR CLIMATES SO, IN FACT, CALIFORNIA AND ARIZONA AND
STATES WITH A HOT, DRY CLIMATE COULD, IN FACT, FOCUS ON MORE EFFICIENT EQUIPMENT AND
THAT THAT‘S GOING TO BE A PROCESS THAT INVOLVES SPECIFICATION, GETTING AGREEMENT BY
THE FEDS, WORKING WITH MANUFACTURERS, ET CETERA, THAT BASICALLY LAYS—YOU KNOW, LAYS
THAT FOUNDATION. THERE‘S AN ASPECT OF THAT IN THAT— ANOTHER ASPECT OF THAT IN—IN
TERMS OF HOW—AS THAT PROCEEDS, HOW TO PULL IN THE APPROPRIATE TECHNOLOGIES AND
MAKE THEM AVAILABLE TO CONSUMERS IN CALIFORNIA AND KIND OF HOW TO—HOW TO DO THAT IN
A WAY SO THAT MANUFACTURERS SEE THE ADVANTAGES TO THEM IN TERMS OF THIS, AS WE IN
CALIFORNIA ENJOY THE BENEFITS OF EQUIPMENT APPROPRIATE TO OUR CLIMATE. SO THE ISSUES
AROUND THAT IN TERMS OF WORKING WITH THE INDUSTRY AND WORKING WITH CONSUMERS SO
THEY KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND HOW TO CHOOSE THAT EQUIPMENT WERE REALLY THE
SUBJECT IN THAT FIRST TRACK. THE SECOND IS—AND THIS IS, AGAIN, NOT NEW BUT AN AREA
WHERE WE NEED TO EXPAND AND MAKE FURTHER IMPROVEMENTS IS THE WHOLE ISSUE ABOUT THE
INSTALLATION OF AIR CONDITIONING EQUIPMENT. AND THIS IS REALLY FOCUSED—I SHOULD HAVE
SAID AT THE BEGINNING—REALLY FOCUSED THE RESIDENTIAL SMALL CONSUMER SECTORS—SMALL
COMMERCIAL SECTORS SO IT—IT CAN EXPAND BEYOND THAT BUT, REALLY, TO HOW TO GET THE
EDUCATION LEVEL UP SO THAT, IN FACT, THE RIGHT EQUIPMENT IS INSTALLED CORRECTLY ON
MAINTENANCE CALLS, MAINTENANCE CALLS OCCUR REGULARLY, AIR CONDITIONERS ARE TUNED BY
TECHNICIANS THAT, IN FACT, KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY TUNE IT, ET CETERA, THE WHOLE ISSUE OF
HOW DO YOU TURN 10,000 MECHANICS INTO PORSCHE MECHANICS, WHICH ISN‘T A NEW—REALLY A
NEW ISSUE, BUT IT IS AN EXISTING CHALLENGE WE‘RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE HEADWAY ON IF
WE‘RE REALLY GOING TO ACHIEVE THE GOALS THAT WE NEED TO ACHIEVE; SO THE VARIOUS
ASPECTS OF THAT WERE LAID OUT THERE. THE THIRD WAS SOMETHING THAT‘S— THAT—THAT WAS
HOW TO—WAS REALLY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IMPROVEMENTS IN TECHNOLOGY; THAT IS, IF
THERE ARE—IF THERE‘S SORT OF—ACTUALLY, I‘M TOLD AMI IS SUFFICIENT, BUT IF THERE WERE
SMART AIR CONDITIONERS, THEY THEMSELVES COULD BASICALLY REPORT BACK TO THEIR OWNERS
BY THE—BY THE CUSTOMERS WHAT THEIR CONDITION WAS. YOU KNOW, AM I OPERATING AS
EFFICIENTLY AS I CAN BE? IS IT—ISN‘T IT TIME FOR YOU CHECK TO—GET A CHECKUP? LIKE WHEN
YOUR CHECK ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON. ALL RIGHT. SO—AND THERE‘S VARIOUS DIMENSIONS IN
THAT FROM SORT OF A SIMPLE SIGNAL, IT‘S TIME FOR YOU TO GET A CHECKUP, TO HERE‘S— HERE‘S
MY ACTUAL STATE, ET CETERA. SO BASICALLY HOW TO—HOW TO KEEP—AND HOW TO EDUCATE
THE CONSUMER TO KNOW, IN FACT, IT WAS—IT WAS TIME, GIVEN THIS INFORMATION, HOW TO
RESPOND TO IT, GET THEIR AIR CONDITIONER IMPROVED, BROUGHT UP TO—BROUGHT BACK TO
SPECS. THE LAST TRACK HAD TO DO WITH THE WHOLE ISSUE AROUND, IS THE STANDARD
INSTALLATION OF A MECHANICAL SYSTEM AND DUCTS THE BEST WAY TO CONDITION SPACES IN THE
FUTURE? AND ARE THERE BETTER WAYS TO DO THAT, BETTER IN THE SENSE THAT THEY USE LESS
ENERGY? ARE THERE HOME DESIGNS, BUILDING PRACTICES, ET CETERA, THAT CAN SERVE TO— TO
PROVIDE CONDITIONED SPACE INSTEAD OF JUST THE INSTALLATION OF MECHANICAL SYSTEMS?
AND THAT‘S A LONGER-TERM DEVELOPMENT INVOLVING, YOU KNOW, ARCHITECTS AND BUILDING
SPECIALISTS AND BUILDING DESIGN IN TERMS OF BASICALLY HOW TO DEVELOP THAT, BRING IT INTO

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BUILDING PRACTICES, AND EVENTUALLY INTO CODES. SO THAT WAS THE FOURTH TRACK.
ADDITIONS OR COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? DAVID, DO YOU WANT TO SEND US TO LUNCH?

MR. NEMTZOW: LET‘S TAKE A LUNCH BREAK, AND WHEN WE COME BACK, WE‘LL GO THROUGH THE
REST OF THE CROSS-CUTTING TOPICS AND GO FROM THERE. THERE IS FOOD OVER HERE
(INDICATING). FOLKS ON THE PHONE, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE YOUR OWN LUNCH. AND WHY DON‘T
WE RECONVENE IN 30 MINUTES AT 12:20, PLEASE. THANKS.


                 (A LUNCHEON RECESS WAS HELD FROM 11:50 A.M. TO 12:33 P.M.)


                                  LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
                             FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 2008; 12:33 P.M.


MR. NEMTZOW: HI, EVERYBODY. WE‘RE GOING TO GET GOING AGAIN. SO IF EVERYBODY COULD
GRAB YOUR CANDY BARS UP FRONT OR GRAB SOME MORE FOOD AND WE‘RE GOING TO SETTLE IN.
BEFORE WE TURN TO OUR NEXT TOPIC, THERE‘S SOME PEOPLE WHO CAME IN AFTER WE DID THE
SELF-INTRODUCTIONS IN THE BEGINNING. SO IF THERE‘S ANYBODY IN THE ROOM, LIKE ALEX, WHO
DIDN‘T HAVE A CHANCE TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES THE FIRST TIME, TELL US WHO YOU ARE.

MR. LASKEY: SURE. I‘M ALEX LASKEY. I‘M WITH A COMPANY CALLED POSITIVE ENERGY. WE‘RE
WORKING WITH SMUD—

MR. LAWRENCE: JUST GRAB A MIC FOR ME, IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE.

UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: CAN‘T HEAR YOU.

MR. LASKEY: HELLO. HI. I‘M ALEX LASKEY WITH A COMPANY CALLED POSITIVE ENERGY. WE‘RE
WORKING WITH SMUD IN CALIFORNIA AND HOPE TO BE WORKING WITH THE IOU‘S TO HELP ENGAGE
RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY BY PROVIDING FULLY PERSONALIZED
INFORMATION AND TARGETED RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT HOW THEY CAN SAVE. SO I‘M HAPPY TO
TALK ABOUT THAT AT SOME POINT, BUT I‘M HERE TO LEARN AND LISTEN. THANKS.

MR. NEMTZOW: I‘M SURE YOU WILL TALK IT, BUT YOU HAVE TO STATE IT IN THE FORM OF A
QUESTION ABOUT A SLIDE, AND THEN YOU GET TO ANY ANYTHING. SO ANYBODY ELSE WHO DIDN‘T
INTRODUCE THEMSELVES BEFORE WHO‘S ON THE PHONE AND WASN‘T ON EARLIER?

MR. AHMED:   JERINE AHMED WITH SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS COMPANY WITH THE COLTON
STATUS.

MR. SHORE: KEVIN SHORE WITH SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS COMPANY.

MR. YTUARTE: ANDY YTUARTE WITH SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS COMPANY.

MR. KHALMATI: IMIRGYN KHALMATI (PHONETIC SPELLING), SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON.

MR. JACOT: DAVID JACOT, MANAGER OF NEW CONSTRUCTION AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY FOR
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON.

MR. JAMES: BOB JAMES FOR RICHARD HEATH & ASSOCIATES.

MR. NEMTZOW: GOOD. ANYONE ELSE? THANKS. SO IF YOU HAVEN‘T HEARD ABOUT CODES AND
STANDARDS, YOU WERE NOT PAYING ATTENTION THIS MORNING. OBVIOUSLY, IT PERMEATES OUR
CONVERSATION.   IF YOU LOOK AT THE THREE ―BIG BOLD‖ STANDARDS ADOPTED BY THE
COMMISSION, PLUS THE LOW INCOME, TWO OF THEM USE THE WORD ―ALL,‖ ―ALL NEW BUILDINGS,‖
AND WHEN YOU HEAR THE WORD ―ALL‖—WHEN I HEAR THE WORD ―ALL,‖ I THINK OF CODES AND
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STANDARDS BECAUSE THAT‘S HOW WE GET TO ―ALL.‖ ATHENA BESA FROM SAN DIEGO GAS &
ELECTRIC AND SO CAL GAS WILL TALK ABOUT IT. IS THAT IT? THANK YOU.

MS. BESA: THANK YOU, DAVID. I HOPE YOU ENJOYED YOUR LUNCH AND, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER
ELSE IS THERE, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO KEEP REFRESHING YOURSELF. HOPEFULLY, WE HAVE
ENOUGH DRINKS FOR YOU. BUT ANYWAY, I THINK DON WAS KIND ENOUGH, AND SO WAS BILL, TO
INTRODUCE THE MAIN TEAM—TEAM MEMBERS OF THE DIFFERENT GROUPS THAT THEY WORKED ON.
AND I WAS REMISS FOR THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR, AND IT WAS LED BY GENE CLINTON OF THE PUC
AND—OKAY, BEFORE I CALL HIM NEIL AGAIN—RICK DIAMOND, WHO WERE VERY—ARE VERY ABLE
LEADERS IN THAT GROUP. I ALSO NOTE THAT DAVID DID COME IN LATE; SO DAVID JACOT IS ONE OF
THE POINT IOU PEOPLE ON THAT TEAM WHO HELPED WORK ON THAT CONVENER REPORT. I THINK
THE COMMERCIAL REPORT WAS ONE OF LONGEST PIECES IN THE WHOLE APPENDIX THERE. AS I
MOVE INTO CODES AND STANDARDS— DO WE HAVE THE CONVENERS FOR CODES AND
STANDARDS? -- FROM CI—CIEE, AND WE HAVE A FEW OF THE IOU POINT PEOPLE HERE WHO
WORKED ON THE CODES AND STANDARDS, AND THAT WOULD BE GREG ANDERS AND LANCE DE
LAURA AND JERINE AND RANDALL HIGA. THERE YOU GO. SO ANYWAY, I‘M SURE THEY‘RE GOING TO
KEEP ME STRAIGHT. BUT AS I SPOKE UP EARLIER, AND WHAT DAVID WAS POINTING OUT HERE, IS
THAT CODES AND STANDARDS REALLY PERMEATES A LOT OF THE STRATEGIES FOR A LOT OF THE
SECTORS IN ORDER FOR US TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN ACHIEVING ENERGY EFFICIENCY. CODES AND
STANDARDS PUSHES US TO DO BETTER. CODES AND STANDARDS IN CALIFORNIA IS UPDATED AT
LEAST EVERY THREE YEARS FOR TITLE 24 AND MOSTLY FOR TITLE 20, UNLESS THERE‘S SOME
ACTIVITY THAT‘S GOING ON AND THEY WANT TO RECOGNIZE ACHIEVEMENTS IN—IN THE NEW
STANDARDS FOR APPLIANCES AND EQUIPMENT, THEY CAN DO SO ON A MORE FEQUENT BASIS THAN
JUST THREE YEARS. NOW, THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT CODES AND STANDARDS IS CALIFORNIA
DOES HAVE CODES AND STANDARDS. AND I THINK IT‘S BEEN AROUND SINCE THE ‗80S OR SO, AND
WE‘VE ACHIEVED A LOT OF SUCCESS WITH CODES AND STANDARDS. OKAY. WE‘VE SAVED $56
BILLION IN ELECTRICITY AND ABOUT—AND NATURAL GAS SINCE 1978. SO I GUESS IT WAS THERE
LONG BEFORE THE ‗80S. AND WE ALWAYS LIKE TO DO THIS. THAT‘S ABOUT THE EQUIVALENT OF 15
POWER PLANTS. SO ANYWAY, WITH THE NEW STANDARDS IN PLACE, WE ARE LOOKING FOR
ANOTHER $23 BILLION BY 2013. NOW, TITLE 24, LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT, TENDS TO DO WITH
BUILDINGS, BUILDING SHELLS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND TITLE 20 IS MORE ON EQUIPMENT. NOW,
THE THING ABOUT THE CODES AND STANDARDS IS THAT CALIFORNIA DOES HAVE ITS OWN CODES
AND STANDARDS, BUT THEY CAN BE PREEMPTED BY FEDERAL REGULATION, AND MOST OF IT
HAPPENS USUALLY ON THE APPLIANCE AND EQUIPMENT SIDE MORE THAN TITLE 24. AND SO PART
OF THE STRATEGY IN TRYING TO IMPROVE CODES AND STANDARDS FOR CALIFORNIA IS TO MAKE
SURE THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF COORDINATION IN THE DIFFERENT REGULATORY BODIES THAT HAVE
AN IMPACT ON SETTING CODES AND STANDARDS. ANOTHER FEATURE ABOUT CODES AND
STANDARDS—AND I THINK A LOT OF YOU WERE BRINGING THAT UP AS WE WERE WORKING
THROUGH THIS PROCESS— IS THAT CODES AND STANDARDS, FIRST OF ALL, ELIMINATES THE BAD
PERFORMANCE—PERFORMERS BECAUSE IT SETS A MINIMUM STANDARD. IT DOESN‘T REWARD THE
BETTER PERFORMERS, AND THE ONLY TIME YOU CAN—IN THE RECENT YEARS THAT YOU COULD
GET RECOGNITION FOR ACTUALLY PERFORMING BETTER THAN STANDARD IS ACTUALLY WITH NOW
THESE DESIGNATIONS, OR ENERGY STAR LABELS, OR, TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU CAN PARTICIPATE
IN A— IN THE UTILITIES PROGRAMS THAT ACTUALLY REQUIRE HIGHER THAN TITLE 24 STANDARD
PRFORMANCE. SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO DO WITH CODES AND STANDARDS IS
PROBABLY TO DO NOT ONLY A STICK APPROACH, WHICH IS EIMINATING THE MINIMUM, BUT IN
ORDER FOR US TO GET TO NET ZERO ENERGY, IS THAT WE ACTUALLY NEED TO BE PUSHING THE
HIGH PERFORMANCE AND RCOGNIZING IT. AND AS I SAID EARLIER, WITH THE INTRODUCTION OF
AB2030, CODES AND STANDARDS WILL PROBABLY START TAKING UP, FIRST OF ALL, THE DEFINITION
OF NET ZERO ENERGY BUILDINGS AND MOVING TOWARDS HOW COULD WE ACTUALLY ACHIEVE IT. I
THINK I PRETTY MUCH TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THESE, ESPECIALLY ON COMMERCIAL SIDE. SO
ALTHOUGH WE DO HAVE CODES AND STANDARDS, A LOT OF WORK GOES INTO CODES AND
STANDARDS. THEY—THEY JUST DON‘T, ALL OF A SUDDEN, APPEAR AND PEOPLE DECIDE THAT IT‘S
GOING TO BE THIS LEVEL. BUT A LOT OF ANALYSIS NEEDS TO GO INTO THE PROCESS, THEY NEED
TO BE DONE IN A TIMELY FASHION, AND TECHNOLOGY SORT OF HAS TO KEEP UP WITH IT SO THAT IT
CAN BE RECOGNIZED IN SUCCESSIVE CODES AND STANDARDS REGULATIONS. NOW—AND I THINK
YOU ALL BROUGHT IT UP, TOO, ABOUT COMPLIANCE. SO ONE IS TO GET THE CODES AND
STANDARDS AND TO SET WHERE WE NEED—THE BARS WHERE WE NEED TO BE; BUT THEN THE

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OTHER HALF OF THAT IS ACTUALLY COMPLYING AND ENFORCEMENT. AND SO THESE ARE THE
THINGS THAT WE NEED TO WORK ON FOR CODES AND STANDARDS MOVING FORWARD IS HOW TO
ACTUALLY WORK WITH BUILDING DEPARTMENTS IN ORDER TO IMPROVE COMPLIANCING AND ALSO,
AS SOMEBODY SAID EARLIER, THAT BUILDING OWNERS, PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANIES,
ARCHITECTS, CONTRACTORS, ENGINEERING FIRMS, THEY NEED TO RECOGNIZE THE VALUE OF AT
LEAST COMPLYING SO THAT THEY‘RE NOT TRYING TO CIRCUMVENT THE PROCESS. SO IN GENERAL
AND TO THE—ON THE KEY STAKEHOLDERS FOR THIS, I RECOGNIZE THAT BESIDES THE
REGULATORY BODIES THAT ARE INVOLVED, THAT THERE‘S A LOT OF IN—INDUSTRY STAKEHOLDERS
THAT NEED TO BE PART OF THIS PROCESS. AND I THINK, FROM MY LIMITED EXPERIENCE—I MEAN,
OUR—OUR STAFF HERE WHO WORK ON CODES AND STANDARDS ARE MORE INFORMED THAN I—
BUT ONE OF THEM, FOR EXAMPLE, IS THE BIA AND—AND I‘M SURE THERE‘S A LOT OF TRADE
ORGANIZATIONS THAT PARTICIPATE IN CODES AND STANDARDS AND—AND THE APPROVAL OF
THOSE CODES AND STANDARDS. AND SO TRYING TO GET BUY-IN FROM ALL STAKEHOLDERS IS
REALLY IMPORTANT SO THAT WE, FIRST OF ALL, DEVELOP CODES AND STANDARDS THAT KEEP
PUSHING US TO THE LIMIT BUT AT THE SAME TIME THAT, AFTER THEY‘RE APPROVED, WERE
ACTUALLY WILLING TO IMPLEMENT THEM. THAT‘S MY SHORT ON CODES AND STANDARDS. DO YOU
HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS ON CODES AND STANDARDS? YES, MARSHALL. MR. HUNT:
MARSHAL HUNT. MY EXPERIENCE WITH CODES AND STANDARDS GOES A LONG WAYS BACK, ALSO,
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK IS STARTING TO GET ADDRESSED WITH SOME GOOD
SUCCESS—AND I DON‘T KNOW WHETHER I JUST MISSED IT—BUT THE USE OF HERS RATERS AND
OTHER FOLKS TO DO VERIFICATION, BECAUSE AT SOME LEVEL THE LOCAL JURISDICTION IS
FOCUSED ON HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUES—

MS. BESA: RIGHT. EXACTLY.

MR. HUNT: -- AND I THINK WE‘RE BEGINNING TO HAVE SOME SUCCESS—IT TOOK A WHILE—A LITTLE
WHILE TO TAKE OFF, BUT CERTAINLY THE DUCT CEILING HERS RATINGS AND—I DON‘T KNOW. DID I
JUST MISS IT OR IS IT NOT IN THERE?

MS. BESA: I THINK IT‘S—IT‘S WRITTEN SOMEPLACE IN THERE THAT PART OF—IT‘S IN THE APPENDIX.

MR. NEMTZOW: NO. IT‘S—IT‘S IN HERE. PAGE 47. YOU—IT MAY BE A LITTLE TOO ENCODED FOR
YOU, MARSHALL.

MS. BESA: BUT I THINK—BUT I THINK, AS LANCE IS POINTING OUT, IN THE APPENDIX IT‘S VERY
EXPLICIT, ISN‘T IT?

MR. NEMTZOW: AND THEN IN THE REPORT IT SAYS, ―THE FINAL QUALITY CHECK PERFORMED BY
THIRD PARTIES IN THE FIELD‖; SO HERS RATERS WERE THE OPTION WHO WE WERE THINKING.

MS. BESA: YEAH. AND I THINK THAT—YOU KNOW, THEY DO THAT A LOT FOR RESIDENTIAL
BUILDINGS, BUT I‘M NOT EXACTLY SURE IF THIS KIND OF PRACTICE IS BEING ADOPTED FOR
COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, TOO. AND SO I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS, WHEN WE GET TO WORK
FORCE TRAINING AND MARKETING AND OUTREACH, IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE
CAN EXPAND THE CAPACITY TO DO COMPLIANCING AND PERMITTING AND ALL THAT STUFF. YOU
KNOW, LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, THAT‘S CERTAINLY—THEY‘RE PROBABLY ON THE FOREFRONT OF
DOING THESE THINGS, BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT WE COULD SUPPORT THEM AS A—AS AN INDUSTRY
AS A WHOLE SO THAT THEY CAN EXPAND THEIR CAPACITY, EITHER BY, YOU KNOW, TRAINING THEIR
WORK FORCE, BUT ALSO ALLOWING FOR THIRD PARTIES TO COME IN THAT ARE ACCEPTABLE TO
EVERYONE AND ARE, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY CERTIFIED TO DO THIS TYPE OF WORK. AND AGAIN,
IT‘S ALREADY THERE FOR THE RESIDENTIAL SECTOR BUT NOT THAT MUCH YET ON THE
COMMERCIAL SIDE. WELL, IF THERE ARE NO MORE—YES.

MR. BURDICK: HI. AARON BURDICK, ICF INTERNATIONAL. I JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU SORT OF AS
THESE CODES AND STANDARDS GET MORE STRINGENT AS WE MOVE TOWARDS ZERO NET ENERGY,
HOW THOSE WILL TIE IN WITH NATIONAL LABELS SUCH AS ENERGY STAR, LEED, WHICH ARE TIED TO
SOME INCENTIVE PROGRAMS NOW, AND WILL THE NEW CODES AND STANDARDS, WHEN IT SEEMS


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LIKELY THAT AT SOME POINT THEY MIGHT SURPASS THESE OTHER LABELING PROGRAMS, AND HOW
WILL THE NEW CODES AND STANDARDS BE TIED TO INCENTIVES?

MS. BESA: YOU KNOW, THAT‘S A GOOD QUESTION. I MEAN, THEY—THERE NEEDS T O BE SOME TIE-
IN TO THESE TYPES OF—ON THE ONE HAND WE‘RE TRYING TO LABEL BUILDINGS, BUT ON THE
OTHER HAND—I MEAN, IT NEEDS TO BE TIED TO THEIR PERFORMANCE RELATIVE TO CODES AND
STANDARDS.    AND I THINK IN THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR WRITE-UP, THERE‘S A—THERE‘S
DISCUSSION OF POTENTIALLY HAVING LIKE GOLD, PLATINUM, SILVER LABELS FOR—DEPENDING ON
HOW MUCH ABOVE STANDARDS THAT THEY—THEY‘RE COMPLYING. SO DEFINITELY IT NEEDS TO BE
WORKED OUT AND COORDINATED SO THAT IT MAKES SENSE TO THE MARKET. RIGHT NOW LEED,
FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE I SAID EARLIER, DOES HAVE A LOT OF ENVIRONMENTAL FOCUS. THERE‘S AN
ENERGY COMPONENT ON IT, BUT IT‘S NOT NECESSARILY THE ONLY WAY TO GET LEED
CERTIFICATION. AND ON THE OTHER HAND, CODES AND STANDARDS FOR TITLE 20 AND TITLE 24
PRIMARILY FOCUS ALSO ON JUST ENERGY USAGE. LANCE.

MR. DE LAURA: THIS IS LANCE DE LAURA WITH SO CAL GAS. IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE—THE CODES
AND STANDARDS TEAM WORKS VERY CLOSELY WITH DOE AND EPA AND THE FOLKS THAT MANAGE
THE ENERGY STAR LABEL. WE‘RE WORKING RIGHT NOW CURRENTLY ON A PROJECT FOR WATER
HEATERS, WATER HEATER LABELING FOR ENERGY STAR. THAT‘S SOON TO OCCUR, PROBABLY IN
THE NEXT YEAR OR TWO. SO THAT‘S A GOOD EXAMPLE OF CODES AND STANDARDS WORKING WITH
THOSE—THOSE ENTITIES. AND I THINK YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT, THAT AS THOSE STANDARDS
ARE RAISED AND AS THE USAGE OF ENERGY BECOMES LOWER, THERE NEEDS TO BE A MARGIN OF—
OF INVOLVEMENT FOR THESE—THESE PARTIES, AND ALSO THE ABILITY FOR THE REBATE
PROGRAMS TO STILL CONTINUE TO HAVE A PLACE IN THE MARKET, AND WE ARE FOCUSED ON THAT.

MR. NEMTZOW: IF I COULD ADD. I THINK THERE‘S—I THINK THERE‘S A POTENTIAL RISK HERE. WE
ALREADY KNOW THAT WHEN THE U.S. EPA DID THE ENERGY STAR DESIGNATION FOR HOMES, THEY
FOUND, THE FIRST TIME THEY DID IT, THAT TITLE 24 WAS ALREADY MORE STRINGENT THAN ENERGY
STAR HOMES FOR THE OTHER 49 STATES. AND THAT‘S ONE OF THE BURDENS OF LEADERSHIP THAT
CALIFORNIA HAS. SO FOR EPA, I THINK THE JOB WILL GET HARDER. AS WE GO FROM FIRST TO WELL
BEYOND FIRST, I THINK EPA AND—AND YOUR PROGRAM, ENERGY STAR, WILL HAVE A—HAVE A
TOUGH TIME. WOULD YOU AGREE, LANCE? LANCE IS NODDING, LET THE RECORD NOTE, THAT THAT
WILL BECOME A BIGGER PROBLEM AS THEY‘RE TRYING TO—YOU KNOW, AS YOU‘RE TRYING TO PULL
THE OTHER 49 STATES FORWARD AND WE‘RE—WE‘RE HEADING FOR THE STRATOSPHERE.

MS. BESA: BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS AND I—YOU KNOW, I‘VE BEEN READING THE PAPER LATELY IN
THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS OR SO, BUT, YOU KNOW, GREEN BUILDERS ARE ACTUALLY VERY
INTERESTED IN BEING LABELED AS ―GREEN,‖ AND THEY‘RE GETTING A LOT OF TRACTION IN THE
MARKET. AND SO LABELING AND CODES AND STANDARDS REALLY NEED TO BE TIED TOGETHER SO
THAT, YOU KNOW, SAYING THAT ―I COMPLY WITH TITLE 24‖ DOESN‘T REALLY MEAN ANYTHING TO A
BUYER BUT THEN—AND THEY DON‘T WANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEY COMPLIED OR ANYTHING
BUT MORE TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ARE BUYING AN ENERGY STAR
HOME; THAT THEY‘RE GOLD— WHATEVER LABELING WE CALL IT AND SO FORTH. SO—AND
HOPEFULLY, DESPITE THE ECONOMY, THAT THERE WILL STILL BE A HUGE INTEREST IN INVESTING IN
ENERGY EFFICIENCY, PARTICULARLY IN NEW CONSTRUCTION, SINCE THERE‘S A—THERE‘S A SLOW-
DOWN IN BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTION, AND HOPEFULLY BEING GREEN DOES NOT SUFFER ALONG
THE WAY; IT‘S NOT SACRIFICED IN ORDER TO MAKE, YOU KNOW, CONSTRUCTION COME BACK UP
AGAIN. STEVE.

MR. SCHILLER: HI. STEVE SCHILLER. PROBABLY FOLLOWING THE THEME THAT DAVID HAS THAT
EVERYTHING‘S BEEN SAID, BUT IT HASN‘T BEEN SAID BY EVERYBODY YET. SO I JUST WANT TO—TWO
THINGS IN TERMS OF FROM THE STRATEGIC PLAN POINT OF VIEW IS THAT EMERGING
TECHNOLOGIES AND CODES AND STANDARDS ARE TWO REALLY CRITICAL ASPECTS THAT PERHAPS
HAVEN‘T BEEN AS EMPHASIZED—THEY‘VE ALWAYS BEEN EMPHASIZED IN THE STATE, BUT PERHAPS
WE‘RE GOING TO SEE A MUCH, MUCH GREATER EMPHASIS BECAUSE OF THE LEVEL OF GOALS THAT
HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED, NOT ONLY FOR EFFICIENCY, BUT ALSO FOR THE GREENHOUSE GAS
REDUCTIONS. WE‘RE LOOKING AT SOME OF THE GOALS— THE EXECUTIVE ORDER THE GOVERNOR
SENT, FOR EXAMPLE, OF HAVING AN 80 PERCENT REDUCTION IN GREENHOUSE GASES, THAT JUST

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REALLY SPEAKS TO HAVING NEW TECHNOLOGIES TO ACHIEVE THAT AND PUTTING MORE INTO
CODES AND STANDARDS. AND SO THE WAY—AT LEAST, MY READING OF THE COMMISSION ORDER,
AND THE WAY THE PLAN‘S BEEN PUT TOGETHER IS THAT IT‘S—THE PLAN‘S REALLY BASED AROUND
TRANSFORMING MARKETS. AND THE WAY THAT‘S DESCRIBED IS THE STARTING POINT OF BRINGING
NEW TECHNOLOGIES INTO THE MARKETPLACE, DEVELOPING THOSE TECHNOLOGIES, BRINGING
THEM INTO THE MARKETPLACE, INCREASING THE ADAPTATION—THE ADOPTION OF THOSE
TECHNOLOGIES, AND THEN MOVING THEM INTO CODES AND STANDARDS AND KEEPING THAT
SYSTEM GOING. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE‘S SOME GOOD NEWS AND BAD NEWS THERE. ONE IS THE
GOOD NEWS IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT‘S THE PATH TO GET MUCH MORE EFFICIENT SYSTEM FOR
THE STATE. THE BAD NEWS IS THAT, FOR A TECHNOLOGY THAT MAYBE FIVE YEARS AGO YOU
WOULD HAVE GOTTEN FINANCIAL INCENTIVE, THIS IS GOING TO BE PART OF CODES AND
STANDARDS. AND IN TERMS OF THE INTERACTION WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW,
CALIFORNIA HAS A LONG HISTORY OF BEING LEADERSHIP IN REGULATORY FIELDS, WHETHER IT‘S
WITH AIR OR ENERGY. AND I THINK THERE‘S A LOT OF PEOPLE AT THE COMMISSIONS—
COMMISSIONERS, LEGISLATORS, GOVERNORS—OR AT LEAST ONE GOVERNOR WHO WANTS TO
CONTINUE THAT PATH OF SAYING, ―WELL, FEDS WE‘RE NOT GOING TO WAIT FOR YOU.‖

MS. BESA: THANKS FOR THE LEAD-OFF, STEVE. UNLESS THERE‘S ANY MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT
CODES AND STANDARDS, I WILL HAND OFF TO DON ARAMBULA, WHO IS GOING TO DO EMERGING
TECHNOLOGIES.

MR. NEMTZOW: I‘D JUST LIKE, SINCE DON WASN‘T INTRODUCED EARLIER—

MR. ARAMBULA: OH, OKAY.

MR. NEMTZOW: -- DO THAT AGAIN—DON ARAMBULA IS WITH SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON. AND
AS YOU JUST HEARD STEVE SCHILLER SAY, NOT ONLY DO WE HAVE CODES AND STANDARDS TO
PUSH UP THE BACK OF THE SPECTRUM, WE NEED NEW TECHNOLOGIES TO EMERGE OFF THE LAB—
LAB BENCH TO DRAG FORWARD TO THESE AMBITIOUS GOALS, AND DON WILL TALK ABOUT THAT FOR
US—

MR. ARAMBULA: RIGHT NOW.

MR. NEMTZOW: -- RIGHT NOW.

MR. ARAMBULA: THANK YOU. OKAY. FIRST OF ALL, I APOLOGIZE. YOU‘RE GOING TO BE SEEING ME
FOR THE NEXT 30 MINUTES OR SO. I HAVE THE NEXT THREE SECTIONS. ASKED STEVE TO GET OFF
THE FLOOR AND RELAX. AS STEVE POINTED OUT, CODES AND STANDARDS ARE EXTREMELY
IMPORTANT TO ACHIEVING THESE LONG-TERM GOALS BUT SO, TOO, ARE EMERGING
TECHNOLOGIES. AND WE HAVE A LOT OF EMERGING TECHNOLOGY FOLKS IN THE ROOM, SO I‘M
GLAD TO SEE YOU ALL HERE. AS—I WANT TO ESPECIALLY RECOGNIZE CARL BROWN AND GREG
ANDER THAT WERE INSTRUMENTAL IN DEVELOPING THIS CHAPTER OF THE DRAFT STRATEGIC PLAN
ON EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES. I DON‘T KNOW WHY I‘M NOT—HE‘S NOT DOING THAT RIGHT NOW.
GREG, WHY DON‘T YOU COME UP HERE? NO. GREG ANDER SHOULD BE PRESENTING THIS. BUT LET
ME GIVE YOU A HIGH-LEVEL OVERVIEW. ONCE AGAIN, I‘M GOING TO TRY TO GET OUT OF THE WAY
OF THE SCREEN. I—I REALLY WANT TO SPEND TIME ON QUESTIONS, ANSWERS, COMMENTS,
SPEECHES, WHATEVER-HAVE-YOU. SO I‘M JUST GOING TO GO OVER THIS RATHER QUICKLY
BECAUSE MOST OF THESE— MOST PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM ARE—KNOW THE IMPORTANCE OF
EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES. YOU KNOW, IT‘S REALLY— ENCOMPASSES THE WHOLE OF THE R&D
PROCESS. RATE-PAYER FUNDING IS IMPORTANT, BUT IT‘S NOT THE PRIMARY DRIVER IN EMERGING
TECHNOLOGIES HERE. IT‘S REALLY LEVERAGING THE BUSINESS AND ACADEMIC COMMUNITIES TO
FIND THIS—THESE LATEST AND GREATEST EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES. THE TECHNOLOGIES CAN
GET US A LONG WAY TO ACHIEVING THESE GOALS, BUT IT‘S ALSO INTEGRATION OF TRAINING AND—
AND BEHAVIORAL INFORMATION THAT WILL HELP US ACHIEVE THESE LONG-TERM GOALS. SO LET
ME GO OVER THE KEY STRATEGIES IDENTIFIED IN DRAFT STRATEGIC PLAN FOR EMERGING
TECHNOLOGIES. OKAY. FIRST OF ALL, THERE‘S FIVE KEY STRATEGIES. THE FIRST ONE IS
IDENTIFICATION OF TECHNICAL EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES, MARKET POTENTIAL, AND PRIORITIZING
THOSE—THOSE EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES. SO LOOKING AT A—THIS IS RATHER AN ASSESSMENT
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AND EVALUATION OF—OF THE TECHNICAL MARKET POTENTIAL. THE SECOND STRATEGY IS
LEVERAGING SUCCESSFUL EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY SHARING THAT
KNOWLEDGE WITH OTHERS AS WE IDENTIFY THESE, AND THAT COMES THROUGH A SYSTEM OF
SHARING INTELLIGENCE ABOUT EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES. THE THIRD KEY STRATEGY IS THE
CREATION OF A INCUBATION APPROACH OR SUPPORTING SYSTEM THAT ENCOURAGES INCUBATION
OF EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES AND—AND ALSO WORKING WITH VARIOUS—VARIOUS CHANNELS,
WHETHER IT BE MANUFACTURERS, RETAILERS AND THE LIKE TO PROMOTE—TO AGGRESSIVELY
PROMOTE AND ENCOURAGE THE ADOPTION OF EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES BY THE CONSUMER. THE
FOURTH STRATEGY IDENTIFIED IN THE PLAN IS THE—THE PROMOTION OF CURRENT TECHNOLOGIES
AND IMPROVEMENT OF THOSE CURRENT TECHNOLOGIES, EXISTING TECHNOLOGIES, AND
ADVANCEMENT OF THOSE TECHNOLOGIES TO SUPPORT A ENERGY EFFICIENCY PLAN. AND FIFTH IS
A FOCUS ON LEADING EDGE. I USED TO WORK IN AEROSPACE; SO ―LEADING EDGE‖ MEANS JUST A
LITTLE SOMETHING THAT‘S REALLY DIFFERENT. BUT, ANYWAY, IT‘S REALLY A FOCUS ON THE
VARIOUS ASPECTS OF FOCUSING—BEING—BEING PART—PART OF DRIVING THE—THE EDGE WHEN
IT COMES TO THE PROMOTION OR IDENTIFICATION OF TECHNOLOGIES AND PRODUCTS AND
PRACTICES. THIS IS WHERE WE HAVE TO BE ACTIVE IN THIS AREA AS WELL. SO THESE ARE THE FIVE
KEY STRATEGIES IDENTIFIED IN THE STRATEGIC PLAN; SO, AS PROMISED, I‘LL KEEP THAT BRIEF, AND
I REALLY WANT TO OPEN IT TO—OPEN THE FLOOR UP TO COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, SPEECHES AND
THE LIKE. IT‘S OPEN. TOM ECKHART.

MR. ECKHART: LET ME SEE. I WAS REMINDED THAT I WAS TOO—THIS IS TOM ECKHART WITH
UCONS—I WAS TOO CLOSE TO THE MICROPHONE. IS THAT BETTER?

MR. LAWRENCE: YES. PERFECT.

MR. ECKHART: ALL RIGHT. I PASSED THE TEST. THIS OVERLAPS PARTLY THE ENERGY POLICY
ISSUES, BUT THE—THE ISSUE THAT—THAT THOSE OF US SERVING OR THE INDUSTRY, AND
PARTICULARLY WITH NEW TECHNOLOGIES OR EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES FIND, IS THAT MANY OF
THESE ARE NOT IN DEER BY DEFINITION. THEY‘RE—THEY‘RE MEASURES THAT REQUIRE SOME FORM
OF EVALUATION OR WORK PAPERS, AND THE UTILITIES AND THE COMMISSION RIGHTFULLY ARE
SAYING, ―WELL, WHAT KIND OF BASIS DO YOU HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE THE—THE SAVINGS UPON
WHICH WE‘RE GOING TO PROCEED WITH YOU?‖ WHAT WE‘RE FINDING, HOWEVER, IS—AND THERE‘S
A LOT OF VERY FINE M&B PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM—IS THAT THE—THE CURRENT STUDIES THAT ARE
BEING DONE, AT LEAST THE EX-POST STUDIES, ARE BEING DONE LONG AFTER THE PROGRAMS ARE
DONE, AND—AND WE‘RE NOT GETTING SOME TIMELY FEEDBACK INTO—INTO THE CYCLE SO THE
COMMENT THAT I‘M—I‘M GOING TO OFFER OR THE QUESTION I CAN ASK IS: HOW CAN WE GET MORE
TIMELY, EARLY PROCESS EVALUATION BACK INTO THE CYCLE TO HELP THE EMERGING TECH—
EMERGING TECHNOLOGY SECTOR?

MR. ARAMBULA: WE‘VE REALLY BEEN WORKING AT, YOU KNOW—AND THE COMMISSION‘S BEEN
VERY GOOD ABOUT IT. BEFORE THE PRIOR CYCLES, YOU KNOW, WE‘D ALMOST HAVE TO WAIT AT
THE BEGINNING FOR—AT THE BEGINNING OF EACH CYCLE TO IDENTIFY NEW MEASURES. NOW WE
CAN INCORPORATE MEASURES INTO THE PORTFOLIO AS—AS THEY EMERGE ON REALTIME—ON A
REALTIME BASIS, YOU KNOW, AND THAT‘S AN EXAMINATION OF WORK PAPERS AND—BY OUR
ENGINEERING STAFFS AT THE UTILITIES, AS WELL AS A REVIEW BY THE COMMISSION. AND THERE‘S
A SYSTEM NOW IN PLACE BY WHICH THE COMMISSION WILL BE EVALUATING WORK PAPERS ON A—I
THINK ON A—WE HAVEN‘T IDENTIFIED—EITHER A QUARTERLY BASIS OR A SEMI-ANNUAL BASIS WITH
REGARDS TO NEW MEASURES AND EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES. SO THAT REVIEW PROCESS HAS
GOTTEN A LOT—IS MUCH MORE IMPROVED THAN IT WAS JUST MAYBE TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO.
SO THERE ISN‘T ANY PROHIBITION ABOUT INTRODUCING EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES AS SOON AS
THEY EMERGE. IT‘S JUST, YOU KNOW, FULL-ON MEASUREMENT AND EVALUATION OF A PARTICULAR
TECHNOLOGY MIGHT LAG BEHIND, BUT IT DOESN‘T SLOW DOWN THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THOSE
TECHNOLOGIES.

MR. ANDER: DON? LET ME SUPPORT YOU HERE, TOO. THAT‘S AN EXCELLENT POINT—GREG ANDER
FROM EDISON—EXCELLENT POINT YOU BRING UP. AND THE SSESSMENTS THAT ARE TYPICALLY
DONE NEED TO PRODUCE DATA THAT WE CAN USE TO POPULATE THE—THE WORK PAPER—I‘M—I‘M
RIGHT HERE (INDICATING) -- THE WORK PAPER TEMPLATE. SO IT‘S CRITICAL TO GET CREDIT FOR IT.

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AS YOU SAID, IT‘S NOT PART OF THE WHOLE DEER DATABASE, AND SO THE ASSESSMENTS CAN AND
SHOULD PRODUCE THAT DATA, AND THEN THEY‘RE ELIGIBLE TO GET INTO THE PROGRAMS AND
SORT OF KEEP MOVING ALONG THROUGH THE COMMERCIALIZATION PROCESS. BUT EXCELLENT
POINT.

MR. ARAMBULA: OTHER QUESTIONS? OH, YOU REALLY DON‘T WANT TO SEE ME UP HERE. OKAY. IF
NOT, WE‘RE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT CHAPTER.

MR. NEMTZOW: BUT YET, YOU‘RE STILL UP HERE.

MR. ARAMBULA: YEAH. AGAIN AND AGAIN. MARKETING, EDUCATION, AND OUTREACH IS THE NEXT
CHAPTER THAT WE‘RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT; THOSE ARE THE CROSS-CUTTING ACTIVITY. I WANT
TO MENTION THAT I‘LL GO OVER THE KEY STRATEGIES BUT JUST—WE HAD SOME QUESTIONS ON
HOW TO—HOW TO PRESENT MARKETING, EDUCATION, OUTREACH IN THE PLAN BECAUSE A LOT OF
THE SECTOR GROUPS IDENTIFY MARKETING AS A KEY ELEMENT TO OR A KEY STRATEGY OR A KEY
PART OF ONE OF THEIR STRATEGIES OR MANY OF THEIR STRATEGIES IN THEIR SECTORS, AND SO
WHAT WE MADE A CONSCIOUS DECISION IN THE DRAFT PLAN WAS TO LEAVE THOSE ITEMS IN THOSE
SECTORS WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT WHERE THERE‘S A NEED FOR MARKETING SUPPORT. THIS IS IN
ADDITION TO THOSE STRATEGIES. SO THE IDEA IS WE DO THOSE KEY SPECIFIC STRATEGIES
IDENTIFY— IDENTIFIED IN THE SECTOR AS WELL AS WHAT—WHAT I‘M GOING TO PRESENT TODAY.
THE OTHER THING IS MARKETING, EDUCATION, AND OUTREACH CURRENTLY IS KNOWN TO MANY
PEOPLE AS MARKETING AND OUTREACH AND MANY OTHER THINGS. SO NOW THEY‘VE ADDED AN
―E‖—WE‘VE ADDED AN ―E‖ TO MARKETING, EDUCATION, AND OUTREACH, AND THAT ―E‖
REPRESENTS—IS DIFFERENT THAN—THAN THE ―E‖ REPRESENTED IN WORK FORCE, EDUCATION,
AND TRAINING, WHICH IS THE NEXT CHAPTER I‘LL FOLLOW— FOLLOW UP WITH. AND THAT ―E‖ IS
FOCUSED ON THE EDUCATION OF THE CONSUMER, NOT THE EDUCATION OF THE—OF A WORK
FORCE, A GREEN WORK FORCE, LET‘S SAY. WE‘LL COVER THAT IN THE NEXT CHAPTER. SO THIS IS
REALLY FOCUSED ON THE CONSUMER, EDUCATING THE CONSUMER, INCREASING THEIR
UNDERSTANDING OF THE OPPORTUNITIES AFFORDED—THAT AFFORDS—THAT ENERGY EFFICIENCY
AFFORDS TO THEM. SO THIS CHAPTER IS ABOUT THAT AND, OF COURSE, MARKETING AND
OUTREACH. SO THERE ARE VARIOUS STRATEGIES WE IDENTIFIED IN THIS WORKING GROUP. NOW,
THE COMMISSION IN THEIR POLICY DECISION, THIS IS ONE AREA THAT THEY IDENTIFIED THAT
WOULD BE A RATHER LONG-TERM ACTIVITY; THEY IDENTIFIED AN EDUCATION AND OUTREACH TASK
FORCE OR A NEED FOR ONE. SO THE THOUGHT IS, AS WE WENT THROUGH THESE WORKSHOPS, IT—
YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS ASSUMED THAT THIS—THESE DISCUSSIONS WOULD CONTINUE BEYOND
THE DRAFT STRATEGIC PLANNING PROCESS, BEYOND THE STRATEGIC PLANNING PROCESS OF—
FOR THE 5/15 FILING AND BEYOND 2008 AND 2009, WELL INTO, YOU KNOW, THE— THE NEXT DECADE
OR SO. SO THESE STRATEGIES LAY THE GROUNDWORK FOR THAT ACTIVITY. I GUESS THE
EMERGING TECHNOLOGY GUYS DON‘T WANT TO LISTEN TO THIS, HUH? TOO SOFT. OKAY. SO ONE
OF THE FIRST THINGS IS THE IDENTIFICATION OF THE NEED FOR BRANDING, A TRUSTWORTHY
BRAND—BRAND. AS WE SPOKE ABOUT IT IN THE WORKSHOPS, THE EXAMPLE CAME UP OF, YOU
KNOW, THE NIKE BRAND, THE ―SWOOSH.‖ WHEN YOU SAW JUST THE ―SWOOSH‖ YOU KNEW WHAT
THAT MEANT; THAT MEANT NIKE; THAT MEAN SOMEBODY WHO WAS ATHLETIC OR SOMEBODY WHO
WAS TRYING TO GET INTO SHAPE OR FOR SOMEBODY WHO WANTED TO LOOK LIKE THEY‘RE TRYING
TO GET IN SHAPE. AND SO THE THOUGHT IS WE WANTED TO LOOK INTO BRANDING. BRANDING IS
JUST NOT THE CREATION OF A LOGO, BUT IT‘S THE CREATION OF—OF THE NEED FOR A LOGO, THE
PURPOSE BEHIND THE LOGO, THE TARGET YOU WANT TO MAR—THE MESSAGE YOU WANT TO SPEND
TO A SPECIFIC TARGET, IDENTIFICATION OF ALL OF THAT. THE BRAND CAN—THE BRAND ITSELF IS
NOT THE KEY THING HERE. IT‘S ALL THAT WORK THAT GO—THAT GOES INTO BRANDING. WE
CURRENTLY HAVE A ―FLEX YOUR POWER‖ STATEWIDE LOGO FOR ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND DEMAND
RESPONSE. SO AS PART OF THIS EVALUATION WE‘LL CONSIDER WHETHER ―FYP,‖ THE BRAND
ITSELF, SHOULD CONTINUE ON IN SOME FORM OR ANOTHER OR SHOULD BE REPLACED. BUT EITHER
WAY, IT—IT ASSISTS THE EXPLORATION OF BRANDING FOR THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. IT ALSO
WOULD ENCOMPASS THINGS LIKE BRANDING NEW HOMES SO A CONSUMER KNOWS THAT ONE
HOME VERSUS THE OTHER MIGHT BE MORE EFFICIENT, AND THEY‘LL KNOW WHETHER—WHETHER
ONE COMMUNITY OR ANOTHER CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY, THE BRANDING—OR THAT—THAT
BRANDING STILL IS CONSISTENT. AND THAT WOULD GO ON TO COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS AND
WHATEVER THIS BRANDING EXERCISE WOULD IDENTIFY. THE SECOND KEY STRATEGY HERE IS THE

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UNDERSTANDING OF THE CALIFORNIA CONSUMER SEGMENT— OR CONSUMERS, REALLY, AND
VARIOUS SEGMENTATIONS. WHAT WE HAVE IN THE UTILITIES, WE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF
OUR CUSTOMER BASE, OUR CONSUMERS AND THEIR—THEIR SEG—VARIOUS SEGMENTS BASED ON
THEIR PROBABLE BEHAVIOR. YOUNG PROFESSIONALS WITHOUT KIDS ARE—HAVE OF A DIFFERENT
LIFESTYLE THAN, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LATER IN LIFE WITH KIDS OR OLDER KIDS. THEY HAVE
DIFFERENT—THEY HAVE DIFFERENT GOALS AND DIFFERENT—DIFFERENT THINGS RULE THEIR
DECISION-MAKING PROCESS. AND SO YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THOSE CONSUMERS AND THE
CONSUMER BEHAVIORS AND SEGMENT THOSE.          SO UNDERSTANDING OF THAT IS KEY IN
DEVELOPING—IS KEY BEFORE YOU DEVELOP ANY MARKETING STRATEGY FOR THEM. A LOT OF
PEOPLE IN THE WORKSHOPS ALWAYS HAD A VIEWPOINT OF WHAT A CONSUMER BEHAVIOR
TYPICALLY WAS ABOUT, BUT IT REALLY JUST REPRESENTED THEIR BEHAVIOR AND NOT THE
POPULATION. SO IT‘S JUST THAT UNDERSTANDING OF BASE KNOWLEDGE. SO THE THIRD STRATEGY,
KEY STRATEGY, IS THE LEVERAGING OF SOCIAL MARKETING TECHNIQUES. WE HAD A—A NUMBER
OF PEOPLE IN THE WORKSHOPS COME IN FROM NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS AND THAT
SUPPORTED VARIOUS NON-PROFIT CAMPAIGNS, ONE OF THEM BEING THE AWARD-WINNING CRYING
INDIAN CAMPAIGN ABOUT POLLUTION THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE SAW MAYBE 30 YEARS AGO—WELL,
MAYBE NOT ME, BUT OTHER PEOPLE. NO. ACTUALLY, IT‘S VERY FAMOUS. IT WAS PROBABLY THE
‗70S, ‗80S. THERE‘S ALSO A CAMPAIGN WE‘VE—YOU KNOW, THEY WERE ALSO SHARING OF
CAMPAIGNS DIRECTED AT KIDS AND CIGARETTES AND CIGARETTE—CIGARETTE MACHINES AND
VIDEO PARLORS AND THINGS LIKE. SO THIS IDEA OF USUALLY SOCIAL MARKETING TO PROMOTE
THE— THE BENEFITS OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND—AND OTHER DSM ACTIVITIES WAS—WE FELT,
WAS KEY TO UNDER— KEY TO A SUCCESSFUL MARKETING AND OUTREACH CAMPAIGN. THE NEXT
KEY STRATEGY IS SOMETHING THE COMMISSION HAD INDICATED IN THEIR POLICY DECISION
REGARDING THE USE OF A—A WEBSITE, A CUTTING-EDGE WEBSITE, KIND OF THE BEST-OF-THE-BEST
WEBSITE, NOT SO MUCH INITIALLY DIRECTED AT CONSUMERS BUT MORE DIRECTED AT THE
INDUSTRY ITSELF, WHERE INDUSTRY FOLKS CAN GO SHARE AND INFORMATION AND IDEAS ON
PROMOTION OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY—ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND OTHER DSM ACTIVITIES. SO
THAT‘S MARKETING, EDUCATION, AND OUTREACH IN A NUTSHELL. SO I‘LL OPEN THE FLOOR FOR
QUESTIONS, SPEECHES. QUESTION?

MR. NEMTZOW: OR A SPEECH.

MR. HUNT: HI. THIS IS MARSHALL HUNT. I WAS INVOLVED IN THE SUPERVISION GAS/WATER
HEATER/APPLIANCE INITIATIVE AND WILL BE SOON INVOLVED IN THE WESTERN COOLING
CHALLENGE. AND WHAT WE FIND WITH EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES—AND I ALMOST SPOKE ABOUT IT
IN THAT SECTION, BUT IT REALLY RELATES HERE—IS WHEN YOU TALK TO MANUFACTURERS, THEY
WANT TO SEE THE MARKET. AND THEY NEED TO HAVE A MARKET THEY CAN SEE BEING OUT THERE
FIVE YEARS, TEN YEARS.      AND WE HAVE IT HERE, BUT THEY JUST HAVE A HARD TIME
UNDERSTANDING OUR—OUR ABILITY TO HAVE UTILITIES MAKE MONEY ON ENERGY EFFICIENCY. SO
ONE OF THE MARKETING STRATEGIES THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IS FOR CALIFORNIA TO MARKET TO
THE WORLD AND TO MANUFACTURERS—AND IT‘S A PRETTY NARROW FOCUS—THAT ―WE‘RE HERE IN
BUSINESS FOR ENERGY EFFICIENCY,‖ AND ―WE‘RE HERE IN BUSINESS FOR PEAK LOAD REDUCTION,
AND WE NEED—WE ARE A MARKET FOR YOUR PRODUCTS.‖ AND IT‘S JUST AMAZING HOW THE
MANUFACTURERS ARE SO FOCUSED ON GETTING THE LAST NICKEL OUT OF THEIR PRODUCT; SO ON
WATER HEATERS THEY COULD HARDLY UNDERSTAND THAT WE COULD—WE COULD REALLY WORK
TOGETHER, PARTNER IF YOU WILL, TO SELL A BETTER WATER HEATER. AND CERTAINLY IN TERMS
OF AIR CONDITIONING EQUIPMENT, SIMILAR THINGS ARE TRUE. SO I WOULD LIKE—I WILL WRITE
THAT UP FOR YOU, BUT I THINK THAT‘S A KIND OF A TARGETED MARKETING THAT WOULD SUPPORT
THE EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES.

MR. ARAMBULA: THAT‘S A GOOD POINT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MR. AWAD: MANUFACTURERS?

MR. HUNT: YES, MANUFACTURERS.




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MR. NEMTZOW: IF I CAN CLARIFY ON THAT. WHEN YOU SAY MARKETING, MARSHALL, DO YOU MEAN
SORT OF LIKE—LIKE A TRADE MISSION WOULD BE, SORT OF SEND A MISSION OUT TO THEM AND SAY,
―WE‘RE OPEN FOR BUSINESS, AND HERE‘S WHAT WE WANT TO DO‖? IS THAT...

MR. HUNT: I‘M SHAKING MY HEAD ―YES.‖ AND I‘M NOT AN EXPERT IN THIS AREA, BUT WHATEVER IT
TAKES TO CONVINCE A MANUFACTURER WHO‘S LOCATED BACK IN NORTH CAROLINA OR WISCONSIN
OR TENNESSEE THAT IT‘S WORTH THEM MAKING TENS AND MAYBE HUNDREDS-OF-MILLION-DOLLAR
INVESTMENT TO A NEW PRODUCT LINE SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE A PRODUCT FOR THE WEST.

MR. AWAD: JUST—JUST TO FOLLOW UP. ZIYAD AWAD AGAIN. IN YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH
THESE MANUFACTURERS, DO YOU THINK THAT THEY‘D BE WILLING TO MARKET TO A CALIFORNIA-
ONLY MARKET, OR ARE THEY REQUIRING THAT THE MARKET BE BROADER THAN ONE STATE?

MR. HUNT: THEY REQUIRE IT TO BE BROADER, BUT IF YOU INCLUDE THE WEST FOR AIR
CONDITIONING, THEN YOU‘VE GOT ―DOUBLE R MARKETS‖ SO WE‘RE TALKING MAYBE A MILLION-AND-
A-HALF UNITARY PIECES OF EQUIPMENT A YEAR. THAT STARTS TO SPEAK. AND LANCE DE LAURA
HAS BEEN KEEPING UP WITH THE WATER HEATERS, AND SO, LANCE, YOU MIGHT COMMENT ON THE
WATER HEATER SIDE OF BUSINESS.

MR. DE LAURA: I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE—

UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: IDENTIFY YOURSELF, PLEASE.

MR. DE LAURA: I‘M SORRY. LANCE DE LAURA WITH SO CAL GAS. I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE WEST
COAST IS—IS FORMIDABLE IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF UNITS. WE DO HEAR, THOUGH, A LOT
FROM MANUFACTURERS THAT FROM A—A DISTRIBUTION CHAIN PERSPECTIVE IT‘S VERY DIFFICULT
TO HAVE A—A REGION-SPECIFIC PIECE OF EQUIPMENT. THAT‘S STILL A HURDLE THAT THEY‘RE
HAVING A HARD TIME COPING WITH. AND I THINK THAT‘S SOMETHING THAT—THAT‘S FOR US TO
WORK ON AND— AND OTHER STAKEHOLDERS TO WORK WITH THE INDUSTRY TO HELP THEM
UNDERSTAND THAT IT‘S NOT A—AN INSURMOUNTABLE BARRIER, BUT IT IS AN ISSUE FOR THEM.

MR. ARAMBULA: THANK YOU, LANCE.

MR. LASKEY: HI—THIS IS NOT WORK—OH, THIS IS WORKING NOW. ALEX LASKEY, POSITIVE ENERGY.
I APPRECIATE THE PLAN AND WAS GLAD TO BE INCLUDED IN ONE OF THE MEETINGS. I‘M A BIG FAN
OF BRAND MARKETING—AND I‘LL SHOW YOU MY SOCKS LATER OR SOMETHING—BUT I THINK
THERE‘S A—THERE‘S A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY THAT‘S—THAT‘S MISSING IN THIS. AND TO BE
COMPLETELY TRANSPARENT ABOUT IT, I‘M IN THE BUSINESS OF PROVIDING THIS SO... BUT I THINK,
REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OUR SERVICES ARE USED OR NOT, THERE‘S AN OPPORTUNITY BEYOND
BRAND MARKETING AND BEYOND EVEN CUSTOMER SEGMENTATION IN AN INDUSTRY LIKE THIS ONE
WHICH HAS AS MUCH CUSTOMER-SPECIFIC DATA AS—AS THIS ONE DOES. AND WITH THE COMING
OF AMI, THERE‘S GO—THERE‘S GOING TO BE THREE THOUSAND TIMES THE AMOUNT OF DATA PER
CUSTOMER. AND SO I THINK, WITH THAT DATA, THERE ARE THREE OPPORTUNITIES THAT I THINK
OUGHT TO BE INCLUDED IN THIS PLAN. I‘M HAPPY TO SUBMIT WRITTEN COMMENTS. THE FIRST IS
ONE-TO-ONE COMMUNICATIONS WITH CUSTOMERS, THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE THEIR SPECIFIC
DATA, IN COMBINATION WITH SEGMENT INFORMATION AND DEMOGRAPHIC DATA AND HOUSING
DATA, TO—TO COMMUNICATE VERY CLEARLY ON A PERSONALIZED BASIS WITH EACH CUSTOMER.
BECAUSE FOR EACH CUSTOMER, BEYOND CHANGING INTO A CFL, THERE ARE— THE QUESTION OF
WHAT MEASURE TO TAKE NEXT IS, OF COURSE, DIFFERENT FOR EACH CUSTOMER. I THINK THAT‘S—
THAT‘S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE ANALYZED, AND CUSTOMERS CAN BE HELPED MOVED ALONG
QUITE A BIT WITH—WITH ONE-ON-ONE COMMUNICATIONS. THE SECOND PIECE THAT I THINK IS
MISSING HERE IS—OR IT COULD BE THAT IT COULD BE EMBELLISHED A LITTLE BIT MORE IS THE—IS
THE TREMENDOUS RESEARCH THAT WAS DONE AND HAS BEEN DONE AND CONTINUES TO BE DONE
IN THE BEHAVIORAL SCIENCE WORLD, PRIMARILY IN THE ACADEMIC WORLD. BUT THERE ARE—
YOU‘RE RIGHT IN THAT EVERYBODY BEHAVES DIFFERENTLY, BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN KEY DRIVERS
THAT MOTIVATE BEHAVIOR SPECIFICALLY WHEN IT COMES TO CONSUMPTION AND CONSERVATION
OF OUR NATURAL RESOURCES. AND THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE FIRST TIME TO BOTH
DRIVE THOSE BEHAVIORS AND MEASURE AND VALIDATE SAVINGS FROM THOSE BEHAVIORS SUCH

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THAT UTILITIES CAN GET THE CREDIT THEY DESERVE FOR ACHIEVING THAT. AND FINALLY, THE
THIRD PIECE IS THE INVOLVEMENT OF—AND THIS IS TO MARSHALL‘S POINT A LITTLE BIT—TO BE
ABLE TO INVOLVE IN MARKETING AND COMMUNICATIONS THE INTERESTS OF PRIVATE INDUSTRY. IT
IS, OF COURSE, NOT JUST THE CPUC AND SO CAL EDISON THAT WANTS YOUR CUSTOMERS TO GO
OUT AND BUY A NEW ENERGY STAR A/C, BUT IT‘S ALSO SEARS AND BEST BUY. AND THERE‘S AN
OPPORTUNITY TO LEVERAGE THAT INTEREST TO BRING ADDITIONAL SUBSIDIES AND DISCOUNTS TO
THE CONSUMER AND PARTNERING WITH—YOU HAVE A TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY TO PARTNER
WITH PROVIDERS OF ENERGY-EFFICIENT EQUIPMENT AND SERVICES TO HELP SUBSIDIZE THE COST
OF BOTH THE—SUBSIDIES FOR CUSTOMERS AND SUBSIDIZE THE COST OF THE COMMUNICATIONS
OF THOSE SUBSIDIES; SO I‘LL PROVIDE WRITTEN COMMENTS, TOO.

MR. ARAMBULA: THANK YOU. VERY GOOD POINTS YOU BRING UP. AND WHEN I TALK ABOUT
SEGMENTATION, THAT IS REALLY JUST THE INITIAL BEGINNING. IT IS REALLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF
WHAT YOU JUST SAID, IS TO GET MORE FOCUSED AND INTEGRATED APPROACHES TO CHANGE
CONSUMER BEHAVIOR; SO THAT WASN‘T LOST. MARSHALL.

MR. HUNT: I JUST WANT TO—MARSHALL HUNT. I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT IS I HOPE THIS IS VERY
SUCCESSFUL IN ITS STRATEGY, BUT IT WILL WIPE OUT THE MEANING OF FREE RIDERSHIP, BECAUSE
IF WE GO OUT AND WE TRULY EDUCATE PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE STATE, THEN THEY‘RE ALL
GOING TO KNOW WHAT THINGS ARE HAPPENING, AND SO THERE‘S GOING TO BE NO UNTOUCHED
PERSON OUT THERE. SO A BIG THING THAT‘S IN ANOTHER PROCEEDING—AND I ENCOURAGE
EVERYONE TO THINK ABOUT IT—IS THE FREE-RIDERSHIP CONCEPT NEEDS TO BE REVISITED AND
MAYBE—MAYBE WE CEASE USING IT ALTOGETHER.

MR. LASKEY: IF I COULD JUST—IF I COULD JUST COMMENT ON THAT. I—I—I THINK THERE IS
SIGNIFICANT REASON TO RECONSIDER THE NOTION OF FREE-RIDERSHIP AS WELL. BUT GIVEN THE
OPPORTUNITY TO DO DIRECT, VERY TARGETED COMMUNICATIONS ON THE INDIVIDUAL BASIS,
THERE‘S ALSO THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SURE THAT PROPER ATTRIBUTION IS MADE AND THAT—
THAT WE CAN SORT OF ELIMINATE, BECAUSE IT‘S LOST IN THE NOISE, THE NOTION OF FREE
RIDERSHIP IF WE ARE TESTING DIFFERENT MESSAGES ON DIFFERENT CONSUMERS. IT‘S HARDER
TO DO—YOU‘RE RIGHT—WHEN IT‘S TV AND BILLBOARDS.

MR. ARAMBULA: AND—AND THE ―FLEX YOUR POWER‖ CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN OUT SINCE 2001 OR SO,
AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN WORKING WITH THAT CAMPAIGN, YOU KNOW, WE‘RE SEEING HIGH
LEVELS OF AWARENESS REGARDING THAT MESSAGE AND THAT—THAT BRAND AND THE MESSAGE
BEHIND THAT BRAND; SO WE—WE ALREADY SEE THAT BEFORE YOU EVEN LAUNCH SOMETHING LIKE
THIS. OTHER QUESTIONS? IF NOT I‘LL MOVE ON. THE NEXT SECTION IS WORK FORCE EDUCATION
AND TRAINING. THIS IS A UNIQUE CROSS-CUTTING ACTIVITY. ONCE AGAIN, VARIOUS SECTORS
CALLED OUT THE IMPORTANCE OF TRAINING OF A WORK FORCE, WHETHER IT BE AN HVAC
CONTRACTOR OR—OR USING LEVERAGING, MAYBE, A DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITY TO
ENCOURAGE HIGHER LEVELS OF—OF—OF, YOU KNOW,
INTRODUCTION OF PEOPLE FROM THOSE COMMUNITIES INTO A WORK FORCE, A GREEN WORK
FORCE. SO IT CUTS ACROSS MANY OF THE SECTORS AND CROSS-CUTTING ACTIVITIES. SO ONCE
AGAIN, THOSE AREN‘T LOST. THEY‘RE JUST IN OTHER PLACES IN THE STRATEGIC PLAN. SO WHAT
I‘M COVERING IS THE GENERAL OVERVIEW. AND ONE MESSAGE I WANT TO GET—WANT TO CONVEY
IS THIS IS A VERY, VERY LARGE ISSUE. IT‘S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THE UTILITIES AND THE
CPUC PLAY A—A SMALLER ROLE IN. YOU KNOW, THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION OF CALIFORNIA
IS—WOULD BE VERY INSTRUMENTAL IN INCORPORATING THAT KIND OF A EE CURRICULUM IN THE K
THROUGH 12 SCHOOLS, FOR EXAMPLE. THAT WOULD HAVE MUCH MORE WIDESPREAD AND LASTING
EFFECTS THAN ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL PROGRAM A UTILITY CAN OFFER OR A GROUP OF UTILITIES CAN
OFFER. SO I JUST WANT TO GET THAT CLEAR, THAT WE ARE JUST RATHER SMALL PLAYERS IN
THIS—THIS WORLD OF EDUCATION, BUT WE DID IDENTIFY SEVERAL KEY STRATEGIES. LET ME GET
INTO THOSE. KIND OF THE OVERARCHING: IT‘S A COLLECTION OF NEAR-TERM ACTIVITIES THAT WE
WANTED TO FOCUS ON, AND THAT WOULD BE FIRST, REALLY, A NEEDS ASSESSMENT OF WHAT WE
HAVE AND DON‘T HAVE IN WORK FORCE EDUCATION AND TRAINING, AND THE THOUGHT OF A—
CREATING A—A WEB PORTAL FOR WORK FORCE EDUCATION AND TRAINING ACT—ACTING AS A
CLEARINGHOUSE, SO TO SPEAK, FOR NOW, AND THIS ESTABLISHMENT OF AN ONGOING DIALOGUE
WITH THE— WITH MARKET ACTORS SUCH AS THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION. THAT IS THE KEY

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TO ESTABLISHING THOSE NETWORKS AND BUILDING A FOUNDATION FOR COMMUNICATION. THE
OTHER IDEA—AND WE MENTIONED IT YESTERDAY AS WELL—THIS—THIS KIND OF—SINCE THIS IS
MORE OF A—THIS IS A VERY-LONG TERM ACTIVITY CREATING SIMILAR WORK FORCE OR TASK
FORCE THAT HAVE—THAT WE HAVE MARKETING, EDUCATION, OUTREACH CREATING ONE FOR THE
WORK FORCE, EDUCATION, AND TRAINING. MAYBE NOT A TASK FORCE, MAYBE A WORKING GROUP,
MAYBE A—A SUBCOMMITTEE FOR NOW THAT MIGHT PASS THE TORCH ON TO SOME OTHER ENTITY
IN THE FUTURE. BUT AT LEAST THE GROUP AND THE UTILITIES FELT A NEED TO CONTINUE A
WORKING GROUP FOR THE NEAR TERM TO KEEP THINGS GOING HERE. ANOTHER KEY STRATEGY IS
THE—K THROUGH 12 STRATEGY IS—IS THE PROMOTION OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY CAREERS IN THE K
THROUGH 12 AREA, WHETHER IT‘S TALKING TO A HIGH SCHOOL COUNSELOR OR PROVIDING A
CURRICULUM FOR EDUCATION. NOW, THIS IS WHERE YOU‘RE NOT ONLY EDUCATING OR INFORMING
STUDENTS OF A POSSIBLE CAREER IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY OR DSM, BUT ALSO THOSE THAT DON‘T
CHOOSE THAT CAREER, THEY HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE BENEFITS OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY;
SO YOU GET THE—YOU‘RE—YOU‘RE FOCUSED ON THE NEXT GENERATION OF DECISION—
CONSUMERS AND THOSE WHO ARE GOING TO BE MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT THEIR ENERGY USAGE.
SO IT‘S AN IDEAL SITUATION TO GET INTO. ADULT EDUCATION AT COMMUNITY COLLEGES. THOSE
THAT ARE SEEKING A VOCATIONAL CAREER IN, MAYBE, IN—IN ONE OF THE DSM ARENAS SUCH AS
ENERGY EFFICIENCY, WORKING WITH COMMUNITY COLLEGES TO MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS. WE
NEED TO ENSURE THAT PROGRAMS THAT LIKE THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN A COORDINATED FASHION
THROUGHOUT THE STATE. ALSO, TECHNICAL TRAINING. YOU SEE THIS A LOT IN THE SECTOR—
SECTOR CHAPTERS, YOU KNOW, IDENTIFYING THE NEED FOR TECHNICAL TRAINING AND ACTUALLY
HAVING TECHNICAL TRAINING AVAILABLE THROUGH VARIOUS VENUES. THE ENERGY CENTERS AT
THE UTILITIES ARE JUST ONE PART OF THAT SOLUTION. WE‘VE BEEN—WE HAVE A LONG HISTORY
OFFERING TECHNICAL TRAINING TO THE INDUSTRY, LET‘S SAY THE HVAC INDUSTRY, THOSE KIND
OF—THAT KIND OF THOUGHT WOULD BE EXPANDED TO—TO COVER ALL OF THE DSM OR ENERGY
EFFICIENCY ARENAS AND SECTORS. NOT TO FORGET HIGHER EDUCATION, WHETHER IT‘S PUBLIC
OR PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS, WORKING WITH THEM TO DEVELOP CURRICULUM FOCUSED ON THE
ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND DSM, WHAT I LIKE TO REFER TO AS THE ―COLLEGE OF ENERGY
EFFICIENCY‖ AT WHATEVER UNIVERSITY YOU CAN THINK OF, BUT WORKING CLOSELY WITH THEM
TO—TO CREATE THE NEW GENERATION OF POLICY MAKERS AND PRACTITIONERS OF ENERGY
EFFICIENCY, SUCH AS WORKING WITH ARCHITECT—THE— THE NEW GENERATION OF ARCHITECTS
OR ENGINEERS SO THEY UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF DSM AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY. AND
LAST BUT NOT LEAST IS THE, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH THE DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES AND
LOOKING TO THAT—THOSE COMMUNITIES AS A WAY TO, YOU KNOW, GIVE GREATER OPPORTUNITIES
TO HAVE CAREERS, CAREERS IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY, BECOME, YOU KNOW, THE NEXT GREEN
WORK FORCE. SO THOSE ARE THE FIVE OR SO KEY STRATEGIES WE IDENTIFIED IN THE STRATEGIC
PLAN WITH WORK FORCE EDUCATION AND TRAINING. SO I‘LL OPEN THE FLOOR UP FOR QUESTIONS
OR SPEECHES. CHERYL.

MS. COLLART: CHERYL COLLART, VENTURA COUNTY REGIONAL ENERGY ALLIANCE. ONE OF THE
STAKEHOLDERS THAT I THINK IS MISSING ARE THE VARIOUS REGIONAL WORK FORCE BOARDS THAT
ARE PART OF—WORK FORCE INVESTMENT BOARDS THAT ARE PART OF COUNTY OPERATIONS IN
GENERAL, OR THEY MAY TAKE A LARGER REGIONAL APPROACH; BUT THOSE WOULD BE SOME GOOD
ADDITIONAL STAKEHOLDERS TO ADD TO THAT AND THAT GIVES YOU A DIRECT ACCESS TO LOCAL
COMMUNITIES, WHATEVER PEOPLE COULD BE OUT OF WORK, OR OTHER EDUCATION. THERE‘S JUST
SOME GREAT NEXUS THERE THAT COULD BE EXPLORED AS AN ADDITIONAL STAKEHOLDER. MR.
ARAMBULA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND WE DID SEE A—A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES UP AND DOWN
THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA IN VARIOUS AREAS SO—AND THAT‘S JUST ONE OF THEM. THANK YOU.

MR. ARAMBULA: OTHER QUESTIONS? SO I DID PUT YOU ALL TO SLEEP. VERY GOOD. IF NOT, WE‘LL
GO ON TO THE NEXT CHAPTER OR THE NEXT CROSS-CUTTING. DEMAND SIDE INTEGRATION; SO I
THINK THAT IS ATHENA BESA.

MS. BESA: OKAY. MY TURN. I‘M GOING TO DO THE NEXT TWO, WHICH IS DEMAND SIDE
COORDINATION AND INTEGRATION, AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. I DON‘T EVEN KNOW IF I SHOULD
TALK ABOUT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS FIRST BEFORE I GET TO THIS POINT. BUT, ANYWAY, AS I—I
SPOKE EARLIER, THERE‘S A LOT OF PROCEEDINGS AND PROCESSES THAT ARE GOING ON THAT ARE
ACTUALLY IMPACTING HOW—END USERS OR DEMAND SIDE MANAGEMENT, AS WE USED TO CALL IT

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BEFORE. AND SO WHAT WE—WHAT WE‘RE FINDING OUT IS THERE‘S A LOT OF PROCEEDINGS AND
LEGISLATION THAT, LIKE I SAID EARLIER, THERE‘S ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROCEEDINGS GOING ON,
LEGISLATION THAT‘S CONTROLLING OR POTENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, ADJUSTING FOR OUR ENERGY
CONSUMPTION, AND AT THE SAME TIME, THERE‘S LEGISLATION LIKE THE CALIFORNIA SOLAR
INITIATIVE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT TRIES TO IMPACT THE END USE ALSO BUT IN A DIFFERENT WAY. WE
HAVE DEMAND—DEMAND RESPONSE PROGRAMS WHICH ARE TRYING TO MANAGE THE PEAK USAGE,
AS BILL TALKED ABOUT EARLIER ON THE HVAC SIDE. THE UTILITIES ARE IN VARIOUS STAGES IN
TERMS OF ROLLING OUT THEIR ADVANCED METERING INITIATIVES OR WHAT WE CALL THE ―SMART
METERS.‖ LET‘S SEE. WHAT ELSE IS THERE? I—I THINK SOMEBODY ELSE MENTIONED THAT AS PART
OF—I WAS THINKING IT WAS A LONG TIME AGO, BUT MAYBE IT REALLY WASN‘T. DURING THE
ENERGY CRISIS IN 2000-2001, AB970 CREATED OTHER INITIATIVES TO HELP SUPPORT ENERGY
CONSUMPTION, BUT THEY CREATED THE SELF-GEN PROGRAM, WHICH WAS THE DG PROGRAM AND
SO FORTH. SO THERE‘S ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF ACTIVITIES THAT ARE GOING ON THAT,
IF YOU WERE THE END USER AND YOU REALLY DO WANT TO DO SOMETHING, THAT‘S A LOT OF
INFORMATION, A LOT OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF INVESTMENT THAT YOU COULD MAKE. BUT THEN,
WHAT IS IT YOU WANT TO DO THAT REALLY IMPACTS YOU IN THE MOST SUCCESSFUL WAY? AND SO
THIS WHOLE CROSS-CUTTING DISCUSSION IS ACTUALLY TO BRING ALL THESE DIFFERENT
PROCEEDINGS THAT I TALKED ABOUT SO THAT WHEN WE‘RE COMMUNICATING WITH A CUSTOMER
THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY, IN A HOLISTIC WAY, EVALUATE THEIR ENERGY CONSUMPTION AND GIVE
THEM THE BEST OPTIONS THAT THEY SHOULD TRY FIRST, STARTING WITH WHAT IS THE MOST COST
EFFECTIVE AND MORE PERMANENT WAY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO THEIR ENERGY CONSUMPTION.
AND IF YOU FOLLOW THE LOADING ORDER OF THE ENERGY ACTION PLAN, IT STARTS WITH ENERGY
EFFICIENCY. SO ENERGY EFFICIENCY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE—THE SCHEME OF THINGS THAT YOU
COULD ACTUALLY DO IS THE MOST COST-EFFECTIVE WAY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN SOMEONE‘S
ENERGY CONSUMPTION PATTERN FOR BOTH NOW AND IN THE FUTURE, SINCE IT TENDS TO BE
PERMANENT. BUT THEN, HOW DO YOU LAYER ON, WHEN YOU‘RE TALKING TO A CUSTOMER, THINGS
THAT THEY CAN DO FOR DEMAND RESPONSE, FOR EXAMPLE? NOW, DEMAND RESPONSE, IF A
CUSTOMER‘S TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS WHOLE THING IS, AND FROM A CUSTOMER
PERSPECTIVE, I THINK SOME OF US ARE MORE CONDITIONED TO—IT‘S SUPPOSED TO BE A WAY FOR
US TO MANAGE WHEN WE HAVE HIGH PRICES, WHICH AFTER AB970 WASN‘T QUITE SUCH BIG ISSUE
ANYMORE. BUT STILL, WE HAVE— IF YOU ARE A CUSTOMER, YOU HAVE A HEAT SPELL FOR LIKE THE
NEXT THREE DAYS DURING THE WEEK, EVERYBODY STARTS WORRYING THAT, ―ARE WE GOING TO
GO INTO A STAGE 2?‖ SO WHAT CAN I DO AS A CUSTOMER TO HELP? WAS IT SUFFICIENT FOR ME TO
JUST DO ENERGY EFFICIENCY? IS THAT ENOUGH FOR ME? BUT CAN I DO SOMETHING? SO YOU CAN
INVEST IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY, IMPROVE YOUR CONSUMPTION PATTERNS, BUT THEN, AT THE SAME
TIME, WHEN YOU‘RE HAVING ALERTS SO THAT WE CAN CUT BACK ON DEMAND AT THAT POINT IN
TIME—BECAUSE IT‘S REALLY FOCUSED ON THE TOP 100 TO—OR 20 HOURS OF—OF THE SYSTEM‘S
LOAD PROFILE. AND YOU COULD CUT BACK TO EMERGENCY LEVELS, EMERGENCY BACK-UP LEVELS.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU WERE A HOSPITAL, HOSPITALS ARE DESIGNED SO THAT THEY HAVE
REDUNDANT SYSTEMS AND THEY HAVE EMERGENCY BACKUP WHEN WE HAVE—THEY HAVE THEIR
OWN POWER FAILURES. SO IF THEY CAN COME DOWN TO THOSE LEVELS BUT NOT ENDANGER
THEIR BUSINESS OR THEIR PATIENTS, THEN WHY COULDN‘T THEY GET THERE? AGAIN, CSI. I TALKED
EARLIER ABOUT, IN ORDER FOR YOU TO PARTICIPATE AS A CUSTOMER IN CSI, YOU NEED TO
UNDERGO AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY EVALUATION AND INSTALL AS MUCH AS OF THE ENERGY
EFFICIENCY RECOMMENDATIONS FIRST BEFORE YOU COULD PARTICIPATE IN THE CSI PROGRAM,
AND IF YOU‘RE THE CUSTOMER, WHAT‘S THE POINT? ―I—I REALLY WANT THAT TV ON MY—ON MY,‖
YOU KNOW, ―MY HOUSE‖ OR ―I NEED THOSE SOLAR PANELS THERE. I‘M GOING TO PUT IT IN THERE.‖
―I‘M GOING TO BE PUTTING IN MY SWIMMING POOL, AND I WANT IT HEATED.‖ SO... BUT BEFORE YOU
CAN DO THAT, WHAT IS THE OPTIMAL SIZE? WHAT IS YOUR—WHAT IS YOUR FUTURE ENERGY
CONSUMPTION PATTERN? DO YOU HAVE BIG ONE? A SMALL ONE? FIVE PANELS? BUT IF YOU DO
ENERGY EFFICIENCY FIRST, YOU          AUTOMATICALLY PERMANENTLY BRING DOWN YOUR
CONSUMPTION SO THAT YOUR PV IS PROPERLY SIZED. OTHER ISSUES THAT—AND THAT‘S JUST THE
ENERGY SIDE. THERE‘S A LOT OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE COORDINATED SO A CUSTOMER CAN
TRULY UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE BEST OPTIONS FOR THEM TO MANAGE THEIR ENERGY. BUT ALONG
WITH THAT, THERE‘S OTHER REGULATIONS THAT IMPACT CUSTOMERS AND THERE‘S ENERGY—
BESIDES ENERGY, THERE‘S WATER AND NOW AB32 IS GREENHOUSE GAS, BUT THEN HOW DO YOU
DO GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSION CONTROLS?              IT‘S YOUR TRANSPORTATION—YOU HAVE
TRANSPORTATION ISSUES, RECYCLING ISSUES. SO ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE COORDINATED. I THINK

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WHEN WE WERE TALKED ABOUT INDUSTRIAL SECTOR EARLIER AND THE AG SECTOR, SOME OF THE
THINGS THAT PERMEATE IN THEIR MIND FIRST IS WATER USAGE AND A—HOW ARE THEY GOING TO
COMPLY WITH AB32. BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TALK TO—BUT HERE WE ARE TALKING TO THEM
ABOUT ENERGY EFFICIENCY. HOW DOES THAT CONNECT AND HOW DOES THAT SUPPORT THEIR
TWO PRIMARY CONCERNS? AND THAT‘S THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS PARTICULAR SECTOR. NOW,
WE DIDN‘T HAVE A LOT OF WORKSHOPS, UNLIKE THE OTHER GROUPS; SO THERE‘S ACTUALLY GOING
TO BE A PUC-SPONSORED WORKSHOP TO ACTUALLY WORK ON MORE IDEAS FOR INTEGRATED DSM
STRATEGIES. AND THAT IS ON—I THINK TENTATIVELY SCHEDULED FOR NOW ON MARCH 7TH. SO
THOSE OF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING, IT‘S GOING TO BE AT THE PUC, AND CATHY
FOGEL OVER THERE (INDICATING) IS ACTUALLY THE COORDINATOR FOR IT, LEADING THE—THE
EFFORT ON IT. SO DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ON INTEGRATED DSM? I MAY NOT HAVE SAID ―LOW
INCOME‖ AS A—AS PROGRAM GROUP, BUT LOW INCOME ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS HAVE THE
SAME CONCEPT AS ENERGY EFFICIENCY, BUT IT‘S REALLY TARGETED FOR LOW-INCOME
CUSTOMERS OR INCOME-QUALIFIED CUSTOMERS. BUT ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE WANT TO DO—BUT
THEY ALSO CAN QUALIFY FOR CSI, AND THEY ALSO NEED TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF
GETTING AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY EVALUATION BEFORE THEY CAN PARTICIPATE; SO THERE‘S A—
THERE‘S ALSO COORDINATION ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO WORK ON WITH LOW-INCOME PROGRAMS.
NOW, ONE OF THE BARRIERS FOR INTEGRATION, AS I‘VE SAID, IS THERE‘S A LOT OF DIFFERENT
PROCEEDINGS THAT—THAT GOVERN THESE TYPES OF ACTIVITIES, AND SO WE NEED A LOT OF
COORDINATION, ALSO, AT THAT LEVEL. SOME OF YOU MAY NOTICE THAT FROM A UTILITY
ADMINISTRATION PERSPECTIVE WE‘RE ALSO FILO‘D, SO THAT WE‘RE NOT EXACTLY ALSO
COORDINATED IN TERMS OF APPROACHING OUR CUSTOMER. SO ALL—AT THESE DIFFERENT
LEVELS WE‘RE TRYING TO IMPROVE COORDINATION SO THAT, FROM A CUSTOMER PERSPECTIVE,
THEY‘RE GETTING THE ONE COMPLETE PACKAGE OF HOW TO MANAGE THEIR ENERGY. I‘LL SKIP—I
THINK THAT WILL BE THE LAST, IS BILL MILLER, BUT I‘LL GO TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT. OKAY. THE
LOCAL GOVERNMENT SECTOR WAS ACTUALLY A LITTLE LATE IN COMING ON, UNLIKE THE
RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL, INDUSTRIAL, AG SECTORS. BUT CERTAINLY CATHY FOGEL AND GENE
MANNING DID A WONDERFUL JOB COORDINATING AND ACTUALLY SOLICITING A LOT OF VALUABLE
INPUT FROM THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS THAT PARTICIPATED. ALSO, WE HAVE NANCY JENKINS
FROM EDISON AND FRANK SPASARO SOMEPLACE FOR SDG&E/SO CAL GAS WHO ARE LEADING FOR
THE IOU‘S IN TERMS OF PARTICIPATING IN THIS PROCESS. NOW, THE ONE GOOD THING ABOUT
LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WHEN THEY WERE PARTICIPATING—I‘M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH THE
MEETINGS AND THE PRESENTATION—BUT THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WANT TO BE ENGAGED.
THEY—THEY CARE ABOUT ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND ENERGY IN—IN TERMS OF THEIR
CONSTITUENTS. BUT PART OF THAT, TOO, IS THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT AB32. SO, AGAIN,
TRYING TO MANAGE THE AB32 CONCERNS AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW ENERGY EFFICIENCY
CAN CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR COMPLIANCE IS VERY IMPORTANT. EARLIER WE TALKED ABOUT HOW
COMPLIANCE, THEY‘RE MAJOR COMPONENT IN ENSURING COMPLIANCE IN CODES AND STANDARDS.
I‘LL GET TO THE STRATEGIES. BUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TALKED
ABOUT—I MEAN, THEY TALKED ABOUT COORDINATION ON THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF AGENCIES
FROM THE—FROM THE DIFFERENT SECTOR GROUPS, BUT ALSO, THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE
TALKING ABOUT THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE COORDINATION ON THE STATE, FEDERAL POLICIES IN
TERMS OF ENABLING THEM TO BECOME LEADERS ENERGY EFFICIENCY. THEY WANT TO HAVE
CAPACITY BUILT INTO THEIR ORGANIZATIONS SO THAT THEY CAN ENSURE COMPLIANCING AND
MAKING SURE THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT STAFFING TO DO THIS, ENCOURAGE INNOVATION AND SO
FORTH IN THEIR ORGANIZATIONS. ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS, TOO, IS THAT, YOU KNOW,
AGAIN, THERE‘S NOT ENOUGH FUNDING TO FUND EVERY LOCAL GOVERNMENT THAT WANTS TO BE A
PARTNER OR WANT TO DO ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN CONJUNCTION WITH PGC FUNDS. BUT THERE
ARE CERTAINLY THOSE WHO ARE LEADERS, AND A LOT THEM ARE CURRENTLY PARTNERS WITH THE
UTILITIES, AND SO THEY CAN SERVE AS LEADERS TO THEIR PEERS. WHAT TYPES OF PRACTICES
HAVE THEY PUT IN PLACE, FROM SUPPLY MANAGEMENT CHOICES ALL THE WAY DOWN TO SETTING
HIGHER-THAN-STANDARD POLICIES FOR THEIR CITIES AND THEIR COUNTIES TO IMPLEMENT SO THAT
THEIR NEIGHBORING JURISDICTIONS CAN LOOK AT THEM AS EXAMPLES TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT
HOW THEY CAN ALSO ADOPT THOSE TYPES OF PRACTICES INTO THEIR PRACTICES. PART OF THE
GOAL OF THESE PARTNERSHIPS IS TO CREATE MODELS CAN BE TRANSFERRED FROM ONE
JURISDICTION TO ANOTHER. AND AGAIN, IT‘S NOT A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL. AS CHERYL SAID, THEY‘RE
MORE CONCERNED ABOUT AGRICULTURE THAN PROBABLY A HIGHLY RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY, BUT
THEN, HOPEFULLY, WE HAVE ENOUGH MODELS FOR THESE TYPES OF COMMUNITIES SO THAT YOU

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CAN LOOK AT IT AND NOT HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY—YOUR OWN MONEY TRYING TO BUILD
THE SAME MODEL OR TRYING TO GET—IT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY TO DO ANALYSIS SO THAT YOU
CAN HAVE HIGHER-THAN-TITLE-24 STANDARDS, FOR EXAMPLE. THERE‘S A LOT OF PROCESS THAT
NEEDS TO GO IN THERE. BUT IF ONE CITY CAN DO IT, THEN THE OTHER CITIES CAN FOLLOW IT, NOT
HAVE TO INCUR AS MUCH AS OF THE ANALYSIS COST AND COST FOR ACTUALLY DOING—MAKING
THOSE CHOICES, ALSO. ONE OF THE THINGS, TOO, THAT THEY WANT TO DO IS—BACK TO MY
ENERGY EFFICIENCY—NEW AND EXISTING CONSTRUCTION THROUGH LOCAL GOVERNMENT POLICY.
AGAIN, IT‘S—THEY CAN EITHER INSTITUTE HIGHER STANDARDS AND ENSURE THAT THERE‘S
COMPLIANCE AND ALSO BECOME A CONDUIT FOR EDUCATION, NOT ONLY AMONG THEIRSELVES, BUT
ALSO TO SHARE WITH THEIR OWN CONSTITUENTS. ONE OTHER THING THAT I WANT TO PLUG FOR
LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IS—AND I‘M THINKING IT‘S UP ON THE WEBSITE. IS IT UP ON THE WEBSITE,
PAULO?

MR. MORAIS: YES.

MS. BESA: OKAY. SO AS OF YESTERDAY, THE CRITERIA FOR PARTNERSHIPS FOR 2009 TO ‗11 ARE
POSTED ON THE CALIFORNIA ENERGY EFFICIENCY WEBSITE. THERE‘S A
CALENDAR OF THE—THE CALENDAR‘S NOT THERE YET?

MS. JENKINS: IT DIDN‘T QUITE MAKE IT ON YET. THERE WAS A GLITCH IN THE PROGRAM. IT SHOULD
BE THERE SHORTLY.

MS. BESA: OKAY. SO HOPEFULLY, IF YOU LOOK ON THE WEEKEND—WHEN YOU GO HOME, DON‘T—
DON‘T WORRY ABOUT THIS STUFF. SO WHEN YOU COME BACK ON MONDAY, SO GO ON THE WEBSITE
AND LOOK AT—THERE‘S A SECTION IN THERE FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT PARTNERSHIPS, AND
THERE‘S THE LIST—THE LIST OF CRITERIA, AND THERE SHOULD BE A SCHEDULE OF WHEN WE ARE
DOING PARTNERSHIP EVALUATION FOR THESE POTENTIAL THIRD—FOR POTENTIAL LOCAL
GOVERNMENT PARTNERSHIPS. AND AGAIN, NANCY AND FRANK ARE AVAILABLE HERE, AND THERE‘S
PAULO MORAIS (INDICATING). SO IF YOU‘RE INTERESTED IN FINDING OUT MORE ABOUT IT, PLEASE,
YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS AND THEY‘LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER. YOU TALK TO THEM LATER ON. ARE
THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT?

MR. ECKHART: ATHENA, THIS IS TOM ECKHART WITH—WITH UCONS. I PRESUME WHEN YOU SAY
―LOCAL GOVERNMENTS,‖ YOU‘RE TALKING ABOUT CITIES, COUNTIES?

MS. BESA:   LOCAL JURISDICTIONS.  I—I‘M NOT EXACTLY SURE THAT EVERYBODY CALLS
THEMSELVES A CITY OR—OR A COUNTY OR—THEY CAN BE A GROUP OF— THEY CAN BE AN
ASSOCIATION OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

MR. ECKHART: IN—IN PRIOR STRATEGIC PLANS— AND NOW I‘M THINKING BACK TWO OR THREE
YEARS AGO ON LAST CYCLE—WE ALSO HAD PARTNERSHIPS. IS THIS IN THE SAME VENUE?

MS. BESA: THIS IS IN THE SAME SPIRIT THAT WE HAD PARTNERSHIPS IN ‗06 TO ‗09 BUT—OR ‗08, BUT
MAKING PROGRESS ON THESE PARTNERSHIPS. SO THERE‘S A LITTLE MORE STRUCTURE GOING
INTO THIS PROCESS SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE CRITERIA. AND I THINK YESTERDAY WE HAD A
QUESTION ABOUT HOW DO WE ENSURE PERFORMANCE TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR PARTNERS ARE
ALSO DELIVERING JUST LIKE THE THIRD PARTIES. AND I THINK WE‘RE WORKING ON THAT, TRYING
TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN COME TO IN TERMS OF MEASURING THEIR SUCCESS AS PARTNERS,
ALSO. SO IT‘S A CONTINUATION OF THAT PROCESS.

MR. ECKHART: IF YOU HAD A QUESTION OR INPUT ON PARTNERSHIPS, WHERE DOES THAT
RIGHTFULLY BELONG IN THIS STRATEGIC PLAN?

MS. BESA: THERE IS A CHAPTER ON LOCAL GOV— OH, ON GOVERNMENTS—

MR. ECKHART: YES.



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MS. BESA: -- IN THE STRATEGIC PLAN; SO IF YOU HAVE SPECIFIC COMMENTS ON IT, PLEASE FREE TO
PROVIDE IT TO US. IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS ON THE ‗09 TO ‘11 POTENTIAL PARTNERSHIPS, I MEAN,
YOU CAN STILL PROVIDE THOSE COMMENTS AND THEY‘LL GET TO NANCY AND FRANK AND MARY AT
PG&E. ANY MORE QUESTIONS BEFORE I TURN IT OVER TO—YES, CHERYL.

MS. COLLART: CHERYL COLLART AGAIN. MAYBE NOT A QUESTION BUT MORE OF A COMMENT, AND
THIS IS IN REFERENCE TO THE QUESTION THAT WAS JUST RAISED. ON PAGE 70, IT DOES INDICATE
THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS—LET‘S SEE IT IN HERE—LOCAL GOVERNMENT IS REFERRED TO AS
CITIES AND COUNTIES; HOWEVER, THROUGH REGIONAL EFFORTS WE ARE WORKING WITH SCHOOL
DISTRICTS, WATER DISTRICTS, SPECIAL DISTRICTS THAT ALL USE ENERGY AND MAY NOT BE—THEY
MAY NOT HAVE KEY ACCOUNT REPRESENTATIVES, BUT IT‘S WAYS IN WHICH WE WORK REGIONALLY
TO LEVERAGE THE INFORMATION, LEVERAGE THE OPPORTUNITIES. SO WHILE THERE‘S SOME
EXAMPLES OF WORKING WITH OTHER KINDS OF ORGANIZATIONS, I THINK THAT‘S REALLY A KEY
THAT IS—AGAIN, GOES WITH OTHER REGIONAL PLANS AND WOULD REALLY ADD SOME STRENGTH IF
WE CONTINUE ON THAT REGIONAL APPROACH. SO I WOULD JUST OFFER THAT AS, AGAIN,
REINFORCEMENT. CERTAINLY THAT‘S WHAT I REPRESENT. I DON‘T MEAN TO BE SELF-SEVERING ON
THAT, BUT I DO MEAN THAT IT HAS BEEN A GREAT MODEL. AND WE KNOW THAT IN THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA THERE‘S OVER 480 CITIES.        THERE‘S ONLY 20 THAT ARE UNDER—OR HAVE
POPULATIONS THAT ARE UP TO 200,000. THERE ARE 450 OF US THAT ARE VERY SMALL CITIES; SO
WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER. SO AGAIN, THAT‘S THE PERSPECTIVE FOR WHICH REGIONALISM, I
THINK, REALLY CAN HELP ADVANCE A LOT OF THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY ISSUES AS WELL AS MOVE
FORWARD ON THE GREATER DEMAND SIDE ISSUES BECAUSE THAT‘S REALLY WHERE WE ARE ALL
WORKING TOGETHER. AND I‘LL ALSO OFFER ONE OTHER ISSUE THAT HAS NOT BEEN SPOKEN OF,
AND THAT IS AB939, WHICH DRIVES A LOT OF LOCAL OFFICES; THAT IS, THE RECYCLING ISSUES. AND
THAT VERY MUCH IS IN PARALLEL TO SOME OF THE WORK THAT IS BEING REQUIRED UNDER AB32.
SO LOCAL GOVERNMENT HAS EXPERIENCE IN ROLLING OUT AB939 AND, AGAIN, COULD PARTNER
WELL WITH THE UTILITIES AND THE COMMISSION AT THE STATE LEVEL TO MAKE SOME OF THESE
THINGS HAPPEN. THE THIRD ITEM OR JUST THIRD COMMENT I WOULD MAKE IS THERE IS GREAT
CONCERNS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL BECAUSE OF BUDGETARY RESTRICTIONS AND NOT A GUARANTEED
RESOURCES, IT‘S HARD TO ROLL THESE THINGS OUT. SO I THINK THERE HAS BEEN A GREAT
OPPORTUNITY IN THIS PROCESS FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO BE INVOLVED, AND I WAS ABLE TO
JOIN A COUPLE OF TIMES AND APPRECIATE THAT, AND I THINK WE ARE STANDING BY READY AS A
GROUP, BUT WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT OUR BUDGETS FOR OBVIOUS REASONS AROUND THE
STATE.

MS. BESA: I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT BUDGETS. YOU‘RE NOT THE ONLY ONE.
BUT THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP RECYCLING, AND, YOU KNOW, AB32 CERTAINLY, JUST AS THE—
FOR THE RECYCLING LEGISLATION, THEY WERE DEPENDENT ON THE COUNTIES AND LOCAL
JURISDICTIONS TO ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT THEM. I READ THAT IN NEWSPAPER IN SAN DIEGO. THE
CITY OF SAN DIEGO IS STARTING TO STEP UP THEIR GOALS IN ORDER TO DO THIS. BUT CERTAINLY,
IT‘S RECOGNIZED THAT, ESPECIALLY WITH THE CURRENT BUDGET THE STATE‘S PUTTING OUT, THAT
THERE IS A HUGE CONCERN ON THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT SIDES ABOUT THEIR BUDGETS SO FORTH.
AND YESTERDAY WE TALKED ABOUT POLITICAL WILL. SOME OF THIS—SOME OF THESE ACTIONS
FROM— THAT WE‘RE LOOKING FOR HERE, CERTAINLY THERE ARE LEADERS. THERE ARE LEADER
CITIES—JUST AS
CALIFORNIA IS A LEADER, THERE ARE LEADER—LEADERS CITIES AND JURISDICTIONS AND
ASSOCIATIONS AND—AND REGIONAL PARTNERSHIPS AND SO FORTH. BUT THERE NEEDS TO BE A
POLITICAL WILL IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN BECAUSE, LIKE YOU SAID, IT DOES COST A LOT OF
MONEY TO DO THIS. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT COMMENT. ANY MORE COMMENTS? OTHERWISE, WE
ARE GOING TO LOW INCOME.

MR. MILLER: THANK YOU. BILL MILLER AGAIN. LOW INCOME FORMALLY JOINED THE ENERGY
EFFICIENCY STRATEGIC PROCESS WITH A DECEMBER DECISION. THERE WAS SOME QUESTION
BEFORE THAT ABOUT TO WHAT EXTENT THE ENGAGEMENT CONNECTION WOULD BE, AND THE
COMMISSION CLARIFIED THAT, ALONG WITH THE VISION THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN, WHICH WE
ADOPTED AND INCORPORATED IN THIS DRAFT OF THE PLAN FOR LOW INCOME. AND I THINK,
BECAUSE OF THE TIMING, THE LOW INCOME GROUP OR AREA HELD ONE TWO-DAY WORKSHOP OR
TWO ONE-DAY WORKSHOPS, BUT THERE WAS BASICALLY ONE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE

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STAKEHOLDERS AS A WHOLE TO GET TOGETHER. WITH THE RULING THAT WE SAW A WEEK AGO, IT
WAS—WELL, ONE READ IS THAT THE COMMISSION WANTS LOW INCOME TO CATCH UP OR EVEN
PASS THE TRADITIONAL ENERGY EFFICIENCY SIDE SO I—I THINK A NUMBER OF THE UTILITIES FOLKS
HAVE HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS THIS WEEK, AND WE EXPECT THIS TO— THE LOW INCOME SIDE
OF THINGS TO MOVE MORE RAPIDLY. BUT AS THINGS STOOD WHEN WE FILED THE PLAN, THERE HAD
ONLY BEEN THAT TWO-DAY WORKSHOP, AND FROM THAT WE—AND THE MATERIALS THAT WE
EXTRACTED A COUPLE OF STRATEGIES WHICH I‘LL TALK ABOUT IN JUST A SECOND. BUT BEFORE I
LEAVE THE VISION, THERE SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE—AND THERE—THERE‘S PROBABLY GOING TO BE A
LOT OF DIS—EVENTUAL DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS AS TO WHAT EXTENT THIS REPRESENTS SORT OF
A COURSE CHANGE, SOMEWHAT OF A COURSE CHANGE FROM WHERE LOW INCOME PROGRAMS
HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST IN THAT THERE‘S A—AN EMPHASIS ON COST-EFFECTIVE ENERGY
EFFICIENCY MEASURES, ACCESS, AVAILABILITY WHICH WAS—WHICH I THINK IS A NEW OVERLAY IN
THE TRADITIONAL PERSPECTIVE OF LOW INCOME PROGRAMS. SO WE‘LL—WE‘LL SEE WHERE THAT
TAKES US, BUT THAT SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING NEW THAT‘S COME UP IN TERMS OF WHERE THE
COMMISSION WANTS TO GO. THE STRATEGIES THAT CAME OUT OF THAT FIRST WORKSHOP THAT
WENT INTO THE PLAN, THERE‘S REALLY TWO. THE FIRST IS—IS THAT—I MEAN, THERE WERE—
ACTUALLY, THERE WERE SEVERAL, BUT THESE WERE THE ONES THAT CAME INTO THE PLAN. THE
FIRST ONE REALLY HAS TO DO WITH SOME REFINED SEGMENTATION AROUND LOW-INCOME
CUSTOMER IN TERMS OF DEMOGRAPHICS, IN TERMS OF CULTURE AND ETHNICITY AND LANGUAGE,
IN TERMS OF GEOGRAPHY, AND IN TERMS OF ENERGY USAGE AND LEVELS OF ENERGY USAGE
WHICH WAS A NEW, YOU KNOW, OVERLAY. AND IT WAS FELT THAT BY A MORE REFINED
SEGMENTATION, THAT THE OBJECTIVES FROM—IN THE VISION COULD BE—COULD BE BETTER
ACHIEVED. SO THE FIRST STRATEGY—THE FIRST WAS TO BASICALLY LAY OUT—WAS TO INITIATE
THIS REFINED SEGMENT— CUSTOMER SEGMENTATION. NOW, AND THE SECOND WAS A—A
CONTINUATION EXPANSION OF SOMETHING THAT‘S BEEN IN THE LOW INCOME AREA FOR A WHILE,
WHICH IS THE—THE COORDINATION OF THE VARIOUS GROUPS THAT DELIVER TO—DELIVER
SERVICES TO THE LOW-INCOME COMMUNITY AND TO BETTER COORDINATE THEIR DATA, ELIGIBILITY,
AND ACCESS. AND THERE HAVE BEEN CONCERNS AROUND CONFIDENTIALITY AND CUSTOMER
INFORMATION IN THE PAST, BUT IT WAS FELT THAT THE—THAT THE SUCCESS OF THE OBJECTIVES IN
THE VISION WOULD BE SUPPORTED IF THERE WAS SORT OF A MORE TRANSPARENT EXCHANGE AND
COORDINATION. SO MORE TO COME. AND I THINK THERE‘S SOME FOLKS WHO ARE INVOLVED WITH
LOW-INCOME PROGRAMS WHO MAY WANT TO COMMENT OR ADD TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY SO...

MR. VILLASENOR: I—I JUST HAVE A QUESTION. RICHARD VILLASENOR WITH TELACU. ARE YOU
GOING TO HAVE SEP—SEPARATE WORKSHOPS FROM THE UTILITIES RUNNING THE LAU PROGRAMS,
OR ARE YOU GOING TO COMBINE THOSE WORKSHOPS TOGETHER? BECAUSE I THINK AT THE
MEETING WE HAD A COUPLE DAYS AGO, THE COMMISSION WAS KIND OF CONFUSED THAT THOSE
UTILITIES WERE GOING TO HAVE A WORKSHOP WHEN YOU GUYS HAVING WORKSHOPS. SO I DON‘T
THINK THEY WERE CLEAR ON WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THAT.

MR. MILLER:    I THINK THERE‘LL PROBABLY BE SOME ADDITIONAL LOW-INCOME FOCUSED
WORKSHOPS, BUT WE HADN‘T PLANNED ON ADDITIONAL SORT OF COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
WORKSHOPS. BUT BECAUSE OF THE TIMING, IT SEEMS APPROPRIATE TO NOTE, SINCE THERE‘S
GOING TO BE EVEN MORE DEVELOPMENT ON THE LOW-INCOME SIDE, IT SEEMS APPROPRIATE THAT
THERE‘S MAYBE ANOTHER WORKSHOP, YOU KNOW, AROUND THAT. I DON‘T KNOW THAT ANYONE‘S
PLANNED THAT YET, BUT I—I WOULDN‘T THINK THIS WAS THE LAST OPPORTUNITY, BY ANY MEANS.
SO IS THERE JUST ONE THING LEFT? SO I—I ALSO GET TO DELIVER THE— THE FINAL BLOW ON THIS.
SO THERE‘S—THERE‘S—YOU—YOU SEE HOW THERE WERE A NUMBER OF THEMES THAT SORT OF
OCCURRED THROUGHOUT VARIOUS ASPECTS OF THIS PLAN? BUT IN ADDITION, WE FELT IT WAS
APPROPRIATE TO PRESENT WHAT WE—WHAT WE THOUGHT WERE A COUPLE OF SORT OF
PROBABLY KEY AND LARGE AND SORT OF OVERARCHING CHALLENGES THAT WE SAW IN TERMS OF
THE PLAN AS IT EXISTS AND GOING FORWARD. SO WE THOUGHT IT WAS—WE THOUGHT IT WAS
REASONABLE, BASICALLY, TO PUT THOSE OUT THERE AND TO GET FEEDBACK ON, YOU KNOW, ON
THOSE AS WE DEVELOPED THIS. AND THE FIRST AREA REALLY HAS TO DO WITH SOMETHING THAT‘S
COME UP IN TERMS OF THE—THE COSTS THAT ARE IMPLICIT IN MANY OF THESE STRATEGIES AND
THEIR IMPLEMENTATION. AT THE SAME TIME THAT, CERTAINLY, IN—IN THIS PROCESS, THERE WAS,
IN ESSENCE, NO QUANTIFICATION OF THE BENEFITS; THAT IS, EITHER NEAR-TERM OR FAR-TERM
WHAT WOULD THE SAVINGS BE FROM THESE ACTIVITIES. SO THERE WAS NO OPPORTUNITY TO

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REALLY—TO REALLY DO THE KIND OF SCREENING, ASSESSMENT—QUANTITATIVE SCREENING,
ASSESSMENT, TRADE-OFFS THAT WOULD—YOU WOULD TYPICALLY SEE IN A FULL-BLOWN,
COMPLETE STRATEGIC PLANNING EXERCISE. AND WE CERTAINLY HOPE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE
RESOURCES IN THE NEXT CYCLE OF STRATEGIC PLANNING, BUT WE CERTAINLY FELT IT AS A
HANDICAP IN THIS ONE IN TERMS OF WHAT ARE THE TRADE-OFFS BETWEEN ONE GREAT IDEA AND
ANOTHER GREAT IDEA IN TERMS OF THE SIZE—SIZES OF THE TWO OR WHICH OR THOSE KINDS OF
ISSUES. SO THAT‘S—THAT‘S SOMETHING THAT WE SAW AS A—AS A DIFFICULTY IN—IN—IN— PART—
YEAH, THAT WE SAW AS A DIFFICULTY, AS A REAL CHALLENGE IN THIS WHOLE PROCESS. THE
OTHER ONE—AND IT CAME UP A COUPLE TIMES—YOU‘VE HEARD IT DISCUSSED IN TERMS OF, YOU
KNOW, ATTRIBUTION. MARSHALL ADDRESSED IT; SOMEONE IN THE BACK ADDRESSED IT; A NUMBER
OF FOLKS ADDRESSED IT. THE WAY I DESCRIBED IT YESTERDAY IS THE NOTION—SINCE I WAS—
SINCE I WAS INVOLVED WITH EVALUATION A—A GENERATION AGO, YOU CAN TELL, MY NOTION IS—IS
THAT THE IDEA OF ATTRIBUTION AND APPROPRIATE USE OF RATE-PAYER FUNDS COMES FROM A
SITUATION WHERE EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS WERE SORT OF THE EXCEPTION, AND IT WAS POSSIBLE
TO APPLY A TRADITIONAL SOCIAL SCIENCE MODEL OF, ―WELL, THESE PEOPLE PARTICIPATED; THESE
PEOPLE DIDN‘T. WE CAN USE THAT GROUPS TO DETERMINE WHAT THE MOTIVATIONS OF
PARTICIPANTS WERE AND HOW MUCH WAS REALLY DUE TO THE PROGRAM AND HOW MUCH WOULD
HAVE HAPPENED ANYWAY,‖ THIS WHOLE NOTION OF FREE—IN—IN EFFICIENCY IT COMES UP AS
FREE-RIDERSHIP; IN—IN THE CARBON WORLD IT‘S COMING UP AS ADDITIONALITY (SIC), KIND OF
WHAT CAUSES BEHAVIOR AND WHAT CAUSES THE BEHAVIOR.AND—AND WHAT OUR MISGIVING IS—
IS THAT AS THE PROGRAMS CONTINUE TO EXPAND, AND AS THEY‘VE EXISTED FOR 20 YEARS, AND
AS THEY CONTINUE TO EXPAND AND, IN ESSENCE, NO ONE‘S NOT GOTTEN AN EFFICIENCY MESSAGE
AND NO ONE‘S NOT GOTTEN A GREEN MESSAGE IF YOU‘RE WATCHING TELEVISION THESE DAYS AND
SEEING MAJOR BRANDS START TO TALK ABOUT THEIR GREENNESS, AND AS THE CARBON
REGULATION STARTS TO COME IN, AND IT‘S ALREADY OF CONCERN TO INDUSTRIAL CUSTOMERS,
HOW—HOW DO YOU SEPARATE OUT, AT END OF DAY, HOW MUCH WAS REALLY THIS PROGRAM OR—
OR NOT? AND SO WE—WE SEE THAT AS A—AS AN AREA THAT‘S GOING TO MAKE—MAKE THIS
MORE—MORE COMPLEX AND CONFUSED, AND IT‘S GOING TO BE MORE DIFFICULT TO SORT OUT
WHAT WAS SPECIFICALLY THE TRADITIONAL PROGRAM CONTRIBUTION, AND I GUESS ULTIMATELY,
WHAT I HEARD TODAY, WAS IN SOME FOLKS‘ MINDS THAT CONCEPT ITSELF MAY BE DATED, AND WE
MAY NEED TO MOVE ON TO SOMETHING ELSE. BUT THAT WAS— THAT WAS THE CONCERN—OUR
SECOND CATEGORY OF CONCERNS. AND—AND THE LAST ONE—AND WE‘RE DAUNTED BY THIS—THE
LEVEL OF COORDINATION AND COOPERATION FOR, EVEN THE PLAN AS IT EXISTS TODAY, IS SORT
OF UNPRECEDENTED. I MEAN, IT‘S REALLY ENCOURAGING TO HEAR—TO HAVE SOUTH COAST AIR
QUALITY MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, REGIONAL GOVERNMENT REPRESENTATIVES COME. I MEAN, WE
ALREADY HAVE A WIDER STRING OR CIRCLE OF PARTICIPANTS THAN WE‘VE HAD IN THE PAST. BUT
YOU ALSO HEARD HOW THERE ARE PARTICIPANTS THAT HAVEN‘T YET BEEN ENGAGED IN THIS
PROCESS AND FOR ITS OVERALL SUCCESS WILL NEED TO BE ENGAGED. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN
AGENDAS AND THEIR OWN RATIONALE, AND THE PROCESS OF EXPANDING THIS IS ONE THAT WE‘RE
GOING TO HAVE TO GROPE FORWARDS ON. THERE ISN‘T REALLY A MODEL THAT SAYS, FOR
EXAMPLE, THE FELLOW FROM THE CALIFORNIA LEAGUE OF FRUIT PROCESSORS TALKING HIS
CUSTOMERS FACING WASTE WATER, FRESH WATER, SOLID DISPOSAL AND ELECTRIC USAGE, KIND
OF ALL OF THIS STUFF, AS WELL AS THEIR AIR—AIR CONCERNS, AND THEY‘RE DEALING WITH
MULTIPLE GOVERNMENT ENTITIES. SO THAT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF COLLABORATION IN MANY, MANY
DIMENSIONS IS SOMETHING WE‘RE GOING TO HAVE TO JUST WORK OUR WAY THROUGH AS BEST WE
CAN, BUT WE SEE THIS AS A VERY DAUNTING TASK.
SO—SO THOSE WERE THE TOP THREE KIND OF CATEGORIES OF CONCERNS THAT WE CAME UP AS
WE WERE WORK—AS WE WORKING THROUGH THIS PLAN PROCESS. SO ANY COMMENTS OR
REACTION OR QUESTIONS AROUND—AROUND THOSE?

MR. NEEMAN: THIS IS ROB NEEMAN, THE LEAGUE OF FOOD PROCESSORS. AND I JUST WANT TO SAY
THAT IT WAS—IT WAS A GOOD SUMMARY. AND GOING BACK TO THIS COLLABORATION, THERE IS A
MODEL THAT YOU MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH. IN THE NORTHWEST THEY FORMED THE NORTHWEST
ENERGY EFFICIENCY ALLIANCE FOR INDUSTRIAL CUSTOMERS. AND AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS
PROGRAM TODAY, SOMEONE MENTIONED THE FORMATION OF A CALIFORNIA ENERGY EFFICIENCY
ALLIANCE, AND I THINK THAT‘S A GREAT IDEA. IT MIGHT HAVE TO BE AN—AN UMBRELLA ALLIANCE
WITH MAYBE SECTOR ALLIANCES BELOW THAT, YOU KNOW, BRINGING IN, AS YOU SAID, THE


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STAKEHOLDERS, GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, AND A LOT OF DIFFERENT GROUPS.            BUT I—I THINK
THAT‘S A REALLY GREAT IDEA AND SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE PURSUED.

MR. MILLER: THANK YOU.

MR. BURDICK: AARON BURDICK, ICF INTERNATIONAL. IN TERMS OF COLLABORATION, MY QUESTION
IS ABOUT WHAT STEPS ARE BEING TAKEN TOWARDS COLLABORATING WITH CALIFORNIA AIR
RESOURCES BOARD TO ENSURE THAT AB32 IMPLEMENTATION WILL—AND CAP-AND-TRADE SYSTEM,
WHEN IT COMES INTO PLACE, WILL NOT ONLY BE BASED ON UPSTREAM SOURCES OF CARBON, BUT
ALSO DOWNSTREAM SOURCES CAN BE IMPLEMENTED INTO THAT SYSTEM IN TERMS OF ENERGY
EFFICIENCY IN TERMS AT THE END-USE SPECTRUM AND NOT ONLY ENERGY GENERATION.

MR. MILLER: SO YOU ASKED WHAT STEPS WERE BEING TAKEN, I THINK WAS AT THE BEGINNING OF
YOUR QUESTION. I MEAN, THE FACT THAT IT—THAT IT IS A—IS A LIVE ISSUE IS ONE THAT I THINK WE
AGREE WITH. IN TERMS OF WHAT STEPS, WE SEE THAT THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS AROUND—IN
THE CAR—IN THE CARBON ENERGY NEXUS, THERE‘S A QUESTION AROUND WHO GETS WHAT IN
TERMS OF SAVINGS—ENERGY SAVINGS AND CARBON SAVINGS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE‘VE
THOUGHT ABOUT OR—OR ARE OPEN TO DISCUSSION ABOUT IS KIND OF WHAT‘S THE RIGHT—YOU
KNOW, WHAT—OR WHAT‘S A FAIR OR WHAT‘S A BALANCED SOLUTION TO THAT IN THE SENSE THAT—
AND IT—AND IT ABUTS THIS ATTRIBUTION QUESTION. AND KIND OF NOT KNOWING THE OUTCOME IN
TERMS OF—OF POLICY AROUND ATTRIBUTION, IT—IT BECOMES—AGAIN, IT‘S A LITTLE COM—
COMPLEX, BUT IF, IN FACT—SAY, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, IF INDUSTRIAL CUSTOMERS
PARTICIPATE IN EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS, GET RATE-PAYER RESOURCES THROUGH TECHNICAL
INFORMATION OR—OR REBATES AND ARE MOTIVATED BY MULTIPLE CONCERNS, HOW DOES THAT
STACK OUT IN TERMS OF THE FINAL SCORE CARD OF ACTIVITIES, BOTH ON THE CARBON AND ON
THE ENERGY SIDE? AND IS THERE ANY FRAMEWORK THAT FITS FOR THE CHALLENGES WE FACE
TODAY, YOU KNOW, MEAN—MEANING, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY IS THE—TO GO BACK TO MARSHALL‘S
POINT, WHAT‘S THE RIGHT FUNCTION OF—OF ATTRIBUTION IN THIS WORLD THAT GETS TO THE
POLICY— THE SOCIAL POLICY OBJECTIVES THAT YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE? AND I DON‘T KNOW THE
ANSWER TO THAT. I KNOW WE TALK ABOUT IT INTERNALLY, AND I TALK ABOUT IT NOT ONLY WITH MY
ENERGY EFFICIENCY COUNTERPARTS BUT WITH MY AB32 IMPLEMENTATION COUNTERPARTS THAT
WORK IN OTHER COMMISSION AND NON-COMMISSION PROCEEDINGS. SO IT—SO IT‘S A LIVE ISSUE.
SO I THINK IT‘S SOMETHING WHERE YOUR WRITTEN OR YOUR VERBAL PROPOSAL WOULD BE—OR
IDEAS WOULD BE WELCOME. DAVID, AS THE MODERATOR—

MR. NEMTZOW: YES.

MR. MILLER: -- CAN I GIVE THE MIC BACK TO YOU.

MR. NEMTZOW: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, BILL. THANKS FOR DOING THAT. THE—IT IS—
WE‘RE—WE‘RE JUST ABOUT ON SCHEDULE. WE HAVE THIS ROOM UNTIL 4:00. WE—WE—WE LIVE
NEAR BY. WE‘LL STAY ALL NIGHT. NO, NOT. WE‘RE INTERESTED IN YOUR COMMENTS, AND THERE‘S
FOLKS ON THE PHONE, JUST—JUST SPEAK UP. SO IF THERE‘S SOMETHING THAT YOU DIDN‘T GET A
CHANCE TO ASK OR SOMETHING THAT CROSSES MULTIPLE ISSUES. YES, SIR.

MR. NEWCOMB: JOHN NEWCOMB FROM COMMUNITY ACTION PARTNERSHIP, SAN BERNARDINO
COUNTY. ONE OF THE THINGS I KNOW THAT THE COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONS ARE—ARE
HOPING AND CONCERNED ABOUT IS THAT AS COST-EFFECTIVE A STUDY THAT WE‘RE GOING TO DO
IN THE LOW-INCOME PORTION OF THIS, IS THAT HEALTH AND SAFETY DOESN‘T GET ABANDONED OR
LOST BECAUSE THERE‘S MANY MEASURES IN THERE THAT MAY NOT BE COST EFFECTIVE, BUT THEY
CERTAINLY PROVIDE THE LOW-INCOME PUBLIC OUT THERE WHO ARE UNABLE TO AFFORD CERTAIN
THINGS, HEALTH AND SAFETY.

MR. NEMTZOW: AGREED. WE APPRECIATE THAT. THANKS. ANYONE ELSE? I HAVE PUT HERE
(INDICATING), PERHAPS AT SOME PERSONAL PROFESSIONAL PERIL, THE E-MAIL ADDRESSES OF
DON ARAMBULA, BILL MILLER, AND ATHENA BESA AS WELL AS THE FORMAL E-MAIL ADDRESS, BUT I
WOULD LIKE TO REMIND YOU, PLEASE, DO LOOK AT THE INFORMATION ON HOW TO SUBMIT FORMAL
COMMENTS, PLEASE DO SUBMIT FORMAL COMMENTS. I KNOW YOU‘VE SPENT ALL DAY WITH US, BUT

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IF YOU COULD ALL TAKE THE TIME TO DO THAT, THAT WOULD BE APPRECIATED. AND YOU WILL E-
MAIL US IN HERE, BUT IT‘S BEST IF YOU READ THE— THE INSTRUCTIONS FIRST. AND ALSO JUST
KEEP IN MIND THAT ANY COMMENTS THAT YOU POST WILL BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC; SO SAY
WHATEVER YOU WANT, JUST KNOW THE CONSEQUENCES. AND—SORRY—JOY YAMAGATA FROM
SEMPRA.

MS. YAMAGATA: DAVID, I JUST WANTED TO BRING TO PEOPLE‘S ATTENTION THAT WHEN THEY DO
GO ON THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY WEBSITE, THERE IS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT SPECIFIC NAMING
CONVENTIONS THAT WE‘RE ASKING PARTIES OR INDIVIDUALS THAT WANT TO SUBMIT COMMENTS TO
PLEASE USE SO THAT THEY CAN BE EASILY IDENTIFIED AND THEN THEY CAN BE POSTED TO THE
WEBSITE. AND THAT‘S ALL SPELLED OUT IN DETAIL.

MR. NEMTZOW: THAT‘S RIGHT. SO KEEP IN MIND THAT THEY WILL CERTAINLY BE CIRCULATED
WITHIN THE COMPANIES. WE WILL RESPOND. WE WILL HEED—WE WILL LISTEN TO, HEED, AND
RESPOND TO PEOPLE‘S COMMENTS. BUT, YOU KNOW—ALSO, YOU KNOW, OTHER PEOPLE WILL BE
READING THEM. AND AS JOY POINTS OUT, IF YOU USE THE NAMING CONVENTIONS, IT WILL MAKE IT
MUCH MORE PRODUCTIVE. AND THEN, AGAIN, IF YOU WANT TO TALK ANY OF THESE FOLKS—MARK, I
LEFT YOU OFF THE LIST—BUT MARK WILL BE HERE RIGHT NOW—RIGHT NOW ON AN INFORMAL BASIS
OR AF—YOU KNOW, AFT—JUST SAY THINGS, THAT‘S THE OPPORTUNITY. AND I ALSO WANT TO SAY,
BEFORE WE GO, I WANT TO THANK THE PEOPLE WHO ORGANIZED THIS, KAYE AND BONNIE,
CERTAINLY, FROM SEMPRA; JASON AND AUSTIN IN THE—IN THE BACK WHO MADE IT ALL BOTH
WATCHABLE AND LISTEN-TO-ABLE AND TESTABLE; AND PAMELA WHO TOOK NOTES FOR US. THANK
YOU. ANY—ANY—SORRY. THANK YOU. AND THE TRANSCRIPT WILL BE POSTED FROM THIS AND THE
OTHER TWO PUBLIC MEETINGS. PROBABLY TAKE A COUPLE OF WEEKS TO DO THAT, BUT IT WILL BE
AVAILABLE. AND MARK SHOWED EARLIER THE DEADLINES, AND WE DO NEED YOU—IT IS A LIVING
DOCUMENT. WE DO NEED YOU TO KEEP THE DEADLINES. AND I‘LL ALSO SAY: SOONER IS ALWAYS
BETTER THAN LATER. IT JUST GIVES US MORE CHANCE AT THIS AND TO DIGEST IT AND THINK
ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES. BUT WE‘LL—WE‘LL HONOR ALL THOSE DEADLINES, OF COURSE.
WHAT ELSE FROM THIS TEAM? CATHY.

MS. FOGEL: HAVE A GREAT DAY, EVERYBODY.

MR. NEMTZOW: HAVE A GREAT DAY. THANK YOU ALL.


          (WHEREUPON, AT THE HOUR OF 1:55 P.M., THE PROCEEDINGS WERE ADJOURNED.)




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