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Wednesday 19th July 2006

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Wednesday 19th July 2006 Powered By Docstoc
					                               Wednesday 19th July 2006

                          THE ASSEMBLY met at 2:30 p.m.

                             (THE SPEAKER in the Chair)

                                       PRAYERS

                                           ****

                         QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 GAINS BOTSWANA ECONOMY HAS ENJOYED SINCE DEVALUATION OF

                                       THE PULA

MR N. M. MODUBULE (LOBATSE): asked the Minister of Finance and Development

Planning what gains, if any, the Botswana economy has enjoyed since the devaluation of

the Pula.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF FINANCE AND DEVELOPMENT PLANNING (MR

MLAZIE): Mr Speaker, available data from Central Statistics Office indicates that total

exports of goods to the rest of the world have grown significantly. Since the introduction

of the new exchange rate regime in May 2005, exports grew by about 60 per cent from

June to December 2005, compared to the same period in the previous year. Over the same

period, exports of meat and meat products increased by 46 per cent, diamonds by 65 per

cent, copper/nickel matte by 74 per cent, and textiles by 107 per cent.

These improvements in exports were due to both volume and quantity, and price

increases were as a result of improved competitiveness. The increase in exports has gone

a long way in sustaining employment in the economy than would otherwise have been the

case before the devaluation. Tourism has also been reported to have improved during the

same period. There have also been marked increases in production of import competing
sectors such as egg production, bread, brick, fruits, etc. For example, according to the

data from the Ministry of Agriculture, egg production also increased markedly from

6,285,050 dozens in 2004/2005 financial year to 9,517,500 dozens in 2005/2006. Another

positive spin-off from the devaluation of the Pula is increased Government revenue

because most of our major revenue sources have exchange rates components.

On the other hand, imports of goods increased marginally by 2.6 per cent during the

period June to December 2005, compared to the same period in the previous year,

inclusive of the increase in imports of fuel. Other categories of imports either recorded

modest increases or declined over the same period.

Mr Speaker, the immediate impact of devaluation of the Pula was to correct the

misalignment of the Pula (local) currency. Over the past five years, the real effective

exchange rate index for the Pula had appreciated by 12 per cent in May 2005, relative to

the long term average because costs in Botswana had risen more than in our trading

partners.

As we have indicated to this Honourable House before, countries that have persisted with

an overvalued currency invariably have had the slower growth rates, and frequently had

currency crises that forced painful adjustments. Therefore, getting the exchange rate right

is important for our future prosperity. More importantly, the devaluation of the Pula was

also undertaken in order to usher in a new exchange rate system, the crawling band,

according to which small adjustments are made continuously, taking into account the

inflation differential between Botswana and her trading partners.

Mr Speaker, Botswana stands to gain more from the introduction of the new exchange

rate mechanism in May 2005. However, it is important to realise that more positive
effects of the new exchange rate system would take some time to be felt throughout the

economy because economic agents have to restructure their operations to respond to the

changes in relative prices. The major challenge is for the private sector to take advantage

of the favourable exchange rate environment to produce goods and services either for

exports or for the local market, competing with imports. This would contribute

immensely to enhanced employment opportunities and poverty reduction in this country.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR KEDIKILWE: Potso ke gore ke eng go ne ga tsaya lebaka le le kana pele fa go

tsewa kgato e e siameng? Ke yone potso e e iseng e arabiwe sa le rona re e botsa le pele

fa go dirwa devaluation.

MR MLAZIE: Mr Speaker, I do not want to sound impossible but I was just answering

the question as it stands now. I thank you.

MR MODUBULE: The Minister in his response indicated that imports did decline in

other sectors but did not mention to what extent or the percentage of the decline on those

industries.

MR MLAZIE: Mr Speaker, I did mention that there was a marginal increase in imports,

which amounted to 2.6 per cent and this marginal increase was attributable mostly to the

fuel increases, which are not peculiar to Botswana alone. But to answer his question, I do

not have any other statistical information regarding the other decreases in imports. I thank

you.

   COMMENCEMENT OF THE UPGRADING OF LOBATSE COLLEGE OF

                                      EDUCATION
MR N. M. MODUBULE (LOBATSE): asked the Minister of Education when the

upgrading of the Lobatse College of Education will commence.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF EDUCATION (MS MBAAKANYI): Mr Speaker,

construction at the Lobatse College of Education is expected to commence in November

2007. Stages one (1) and two (2), which involve drawing the Master Plan, were

completed in October 2005. Funds for development of detailed construction drawings,

Stage three (3), were approved on the 26th June 2006. The drawings, according to the

project plan, should be completed by April 2007.

Stage four (4), tendering for construction is expected to commence in April 2007 and

Stage five (5), construction is expected to begin in November 2007. Mr Speaker, whilst

the Master Plan was completed in 2005, it must be appreciated that all these processes are

necessary, take time and may not be short-circuited. I thank you.

                    STATUS OF THE NEWLY CONSTRUCTED

                                MENTAL HOSPITAL

MR N. M. MODUBULE (LOBATSE): asked the Minister of Health what the status of

the newly constructed Mental Hospital at Lobatse is and whether it is still expected that

the project will be completed as planned.

MINISTER OF HEALTH (PROF. TLOU): Mr Speaker, construction of the new

Lobatse Mental Hospital commenced on the 24th of May 2004 and was originally

scheduled for completion on the 24th of May 2007. The new facility is about 45 per cent

complete. Progress has slowed down, however, due to the liquidation of Kentz Botswana

(Pty) Ltd, a company that was the electrical subcontractor. Negotiations for replacement

are ongoing.
It is now evident that the project will not be completed as originally planned, and the

revised completion date will be determined once negotiation process has been completed.

I thank you.

MR MODUBULE: The Minister is aware that indeed I did consult her even by the time

when Kentz Botswana (Pty) Ltd, did wind up. The Minister promised by then that

nothing is going to deter them from completing the project as scheduled because they are

going to get some other person to get into it. Now the question is, did the Minister by

then tell me what is not true and now what she is saying is that they have not yet got any

contractor to get into the shoes of Kentz Botswana (Pty) Ltd?

PROF. TLOU: Can the Honourable Member repeat the question Sir I did not hear what

he said.

MR MODUBULE: Mr Speaker, what I am saying is when Kentz Botswana (Pty) Ltd,

winded up I did consult the Minister and she promised that nothing is going to stop them

from proceeding with the project as was scheduled. My question is what then happened

between that time and now that did not give them the opportunity to get somebody else to

get onto the project as was promised?

PROF. TLOU: Mr Speaker, we are proceeding with the project as was originally

planned. I am simply saying that negotiations are on going. And once we get the

contractor we will proceed with the project as originally promised. So nothing has

happened.

MR MABILETSA: Will the Minister say whether Kentz Botswana (Pty) Ltd, which is

an electrical firm, was in the same contract as the main contractor that is building the

hospital? And would she further say whether there are any cost escalation factors that will
affect this delay of the electrical connections?

PROF. TLOU: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I will ask my Honourable Member

to ask that in a question because it definitely does not belong to the Ministry.

NUMBER OF TEACHER ORGANISATIONS RECOGNISED BY

MINISTRY OF EDUCATION

MR S. KGATHI (BOBIRWA): asked the Minister of Education how many teacher

organisations are recognised by his Ministry and what encourages sectoral teacher

organisations; the Minister to further state his Ministry's position regarding to the

proliferation along sectoral lines.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF EDUCATION (MS MBAAKANYI): Mr Speaker, we

responded to this question on the 13th of July 2006. However, the Parliamentary Office

has requested us to give the answer again and I will give the answer as we gave it on the

13th of July. My Ministry recognises four teacher organisations, namely:

Botswana Teachers Union (BTU)

Botswana Secondary Teachers' Union (BOSETU) formerly BOFESETE

Botswana Primary Teachers' Association (BOPRITA)

Association of Botswana Tertiary Lecturers (ABOTEL)

Representatives of these teacher organisations sit in the Teaching Service Consultative

Committee, which is one of our major consultative structures.

The Botswana Teachers Union is the oldest of the teacher organisations, and over the

years, there has been proliferation. These have come about as a result of "perceived"

uniqueness and peculiarities within the teaching personnel.

Mr Speaker, it would appear that, when some sections of the teaching personnel feel that
their issues are not adequately addressed, they form a sector specific organisation or even

split within a sector as it happened with BOPRITA and BTU, for example.

Mr Speaker, my Ministry desires that teachers could operate under one teacher

organisation. The amalgamation of these teacher associations will facilitate and ease

consultation processes. My Ministry encourages teacher organisations to form one

organisation or at least an umbrella body in accordance with Recommendation 113 of the

Revised National Policy on Education (RNPE).

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

TABLING OF PAPER

The following paper was tabled:-

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE FOR THE

CONSOLIDATED AND DEVELOPMENT FUNDS -

FINANCIAL PAPER NO.1 OF 2006/2007

(Minister of Finance and Development Planning)

BILLS

FIRST READING

The following Bill was presented and read the first time:-

STATUTE LAW (MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS) BILL, 2006 (NO.15 OF

2006)

Second Reading – later today

CONSTRUCTION OF THE DUTLWE – MORWAMOSU ROAD (LOAN)

(RATIFICATION) BILL, 2006 (NO.14 OF 2006)
Second Reading

(Resumed Debate)

MR KWELAGOBE (MOLEPOLOLE SOUTH): Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente eno, ke a leboga gore o mphile tetla ya go tswelela ke bua ka ga tsela e, e e

botlhokwa-tlhokwa e. Mme e rile ke tsweletse ke bua ka botlhokwa ja yone ga tla gore ke

bue gape ka gore a ditlhabololo tse re di dirang tse Batswana le bone ba bone go imona

menwana mo go tsone. Re sena go lebogela MaChina go nna ba re thusa ka dikadimo tse

di motlhofo gore re kgone go di duela tse, ke re, mme a Batswana le bone go nne le ka fa

ba tsenngwang mo legwafeng ka teng gore ba tle ba kgone go re le bone ba nonofe gore e

re ka moso ditlhabololo tse di ntseng jaana e bo e le gore di dirwa ke dikompone tsa

bone. Mme kana gatwe dilo makwati di tsewa mo go ba bangwe. Fa e le gore dilo tse di

tlaa bo di dirwa fela ke dikhamphani tse mafatshe a tsone a re thusitseng, mme go sena ka

fa re ka dirang ka teng gore Batswana ba bo ba amana le tsone dikhamphani tseo gore ba

tle ba ithute mo go bone ga e kake ya re labofelo le fa e bile re ka dira maphatsiphatsi a

mantsi-ntsi mo lefatsheng leno ra fitlhela e le gore one maphatsiphatsi a a solegetse

Batswana molemo, ko ntleng ga go ba solegela molemo fela ka fa ba tlaa bong ba dirisa

ditsela tseo ka teng.

Mafatshe a mangwe, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, re tshwanetse ra ithuta mo

go one. Mme a re simolole go ithuta fela ka lone lefatshe la China, re sa ye kgakala. Le

ntsha madi, fa le sena go ntsha madi le re adima le bile le ntsha le condition e e reng mme

jaaka re tlaa bo re le neela madi jaana, gore le ye go dira tsela e ya lona e, re batla gore

dikompone tsa rona e nne tsone tse di gaisanyetsang go aga tsela eo kana go dira tsela eo.

Kana ke yone empowerment e e leng gore re bua ka ga yone gore goromente wa China o
ntsha madi a re dirang tsela le tlaa re duela morago ga ngwaga tse tlhano, go tlaa tsaya

ngwaga di le some gore le bo le ntse le re duela le feleletsa go re duela. Mme se re se

kopang fela ke gore e nne dikompone tsa MaChina. Rona golo foo o ka re go re tlhabisa

ditlhong gore re go dire re le Batswana. Gore le rona re beye conditions tse di ntseng jalo

fa re na le ditiro tse di tshwanetseng tsa dirwa mo lefatsheng la rona gore re emphaware

batho ba rona. Ke sone se ke neng ke se bua, gore a empowerment e seka ya nna puo ya

molomo fela?

Ke ne ke bua, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ka lefatshe la Mauritius le e leng

gore gompieno jaana fa o tsamaya mo go lone ke mantlo a matlhatlaganyane a mantsi-

ntsi a a agilweng. Mme jaaka ba agile mantlo a a matlhatlaganyane jaana, o ya go fitlhela

e le gore ka fa e rileng ke le koo ke ba botsa ba mpolelela ka teng, bontsi ja one mantlo a

a agiwa ke dikompone tsa Mauritius, dikompone tse di dirilweng ke beng ba lefatshe ba

Mauritius. Ke bone ba e leng gore ka gone go nna le conditions tsa gore fa kompone

nngwe e e tswang ka ko ntle e fenya tender ko Mauritius e le ya kago condition ke gore,

gore dilo makwati di tle di tsewe mo go ba bangwe go nna le gore a mme kompone e e

tlaa fenyang tender e e bo e le gore e ya go kopanela tiro e o le batho ba Mauritius, e se

observers; e se onlookers e le gore mo administration ba tlaa bo ba le mo teng ga yone,

mo go pleneng ba tlaa bo ba le mo teng ga go plena moo, mo go ageng ba tlaa bo ba le

mo teng ga go aga mo. So, fa ka moso khamphani e e tsamaya batho ba ba kgonne go

ithuta, go tsaya boitseanape mo bathong ba ba ne ba aga kago eo. Ke ka fa ba neng ba fa

batho ba bone dithata ka teng.

Ke sone se se dirang gore gompieno mantle-ntle a ba a dirang a le ka gore Motswana a re

„Gora lentle ke je le ikagelwang‟ jaanong a dirwa ke batho ba lefatshe leo. Ga ke re ba
kobile dikhamphani tse dingwe, di ntse di a tla, mme conditions tsa tenders ke gore fa ba

re joint venture they mean it, ga gotwe khamphani eo ke yone e tla tsayang tshwetso gore

a go tlaa nna le joint venture, nnyaa, joint venture is a condition e e leng gore is in the

contract, fela fa ba simolola ba re ba a aga ba itse gore ba tshwanetse ba age le

khamphani ya batho ba lefatshe leo. MaSouth Africa a dira jalo. Fa tenders di tswa ka fa

they make sure gore dikompone tsa black empowerment di mo teng ga tenders tseo. Fa ba

ya go dira tiro le fa e kabo e bile konterata e tswa ka ko ntle mme ba ya go e dira le

MaSouth Africa. That is how South Africans are fast outpacing us, ba re fitlhela re sa

bolo go nna mo pusong, batho ba bone e setse e le millionaires and multi-millionaires ka

gore ba tlogetse mogopolo o wa sekakauwe o, kana makakauwe gatwe le fa o ka a tshela

mo emereng o bo o tsamaya o ya Molepolole, fa o boa kwa o tsile go fitlhela a ntse a le

mmogo mo teng ga emere ka gore jaaka a ntse a tlhatlagana gore a tle a tswele ka ko ntle,

le le ko godimo fela jaaka fa le le gaufi le go tlola a a ko tlase a a le goga.

Jaanong one mentality one o o, o Tautona wa rona e rileng a bua fa a re ke PHD

syndrome, ke one o o re bolayang mono. O ka re re boifa gore batho ba hume. O ka re ga

re rate batho ba bangwe ba huma. Nnyaa, batho betsho, se re se buang Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke gore a e re jaaka re ntse re kopa botsipa mo mafatsheng a

mangwe, a re kope le botsipa ja kafa ba humisanang ka teng mo mafatsheng a bone. E

seka ya re go tsweng fa e bo e le gore ga rona ke diphufanyana tse o sa itseng gore gatwe

tota di tlaa re isa kae. Gompieno mo lefatsheng le la rona fa gotwe go neelwa Batswana

dithata gatwe ke handouts, ke bailout. Jaanong fa bo Bill Gates ba tla fa ba tla go re fa

handouts gore re kgone go reka anti-retroviral moo ga se handouts. Fa mafatshe a

mangwe a itirela bo Bill Gates ba one rona re tlhabiwa ke ditlhong go itirela bo Bill Gates
ba rona, re emetse handouts tsa bone. Fa re re re thusa ba ga rona gatwe nyaa ba ka tloga

ba huma thata. Naare go huma thata molato wa gone ke eng? Ke raya gore go huma thata

molato wa gone ke eng? Mme le gone ke eng e ya re re tswa fa re bo re ya go kopa mo go

bone batho ba ba humileng thata? Gompieno fa re bua ka bo McConnell Secondary

School jaana re raya sekole sa motho yo one a ntsha madi a gagwe a a a itiretseng ko

America a bo a tla go re agela sekole, mme e le gore o humisitswe ke lefatshe la gagwe.

Ga ba aka ba tlhabiwa ke ditlhong gore ba humise motho yoo a tle a tle go re agela sekole

sa McConnell. Lefatshe la America ga le a tlhabiwa ke ditlhong gore Bill Gates a bo a

humile a kgona go tla go re fa dipilisi tsa anti-retroviral.

Jaanong Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, nnyaa nna rraetsho, se ke se buang ke

gore a goromente wa rona yo re mo ratang thata a eme ka dinao a bone gore Batswana

are empowered. Ga re bue ka molomo fela e bo e le gore we are empowering Batswana

jaaka e le policy ya Domkrag, le mo manifestong wa 2004 e teng.

Gore re tsile go neela Batswana dithata and other manifestos tse di tsileng pele ga o o re

ntse re bua gore re tsile go emphawara Batswana. Ke dumalana le one mafoko ao. Mme

se ke se buang Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ke gore, yone empowerment e, fa

re tshwanetse gore re e diragatse gore Batswana le bone ba none, ba nonisiwe ke

meamuso ya lefatshe la bone, ke gore ba ka tla ba huma, ba ka tloga ba re sia ka tema.

Gompieno fa o ya kwa airport kwa, on your left Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente,

ga ke itse gore a o kile wa ya airport ka gore fa o ya Tonota e kgakala thata le tsela. Mme

rra, fa o kile wa ya airport, go agiwa…

MR SPEAKER: You run the risk of being out of order Honourable Member.

MR KWELAGOBE: Fa o leba ka fa letsogong la molema, go na le mantlo fela a
matlhatlaganyane, a manobonobo a a agiwang foo a Debswana, multimillion projects. Fa

o ka ipotsa gore, ba kae Batswana ba ba tlaa imonang menwana gone fa, o ya go fitlhela

ba ba fatlhiwang ke metlhaba e le gore ba foo batho ba Modimo, ba rwele gloves fela tse

e leng gore ba seka ba tswa magotsane mo mabogong, go sena le fa e le sepe. Ga gona

Batswana bape, kana re na le dikompone tsa Batswana tse di rekisang steel, tshipi, gone

mo. Ga gona le fa e le tshipinyana le fa e le dipannere kgotsa meburu e e rekilweng mo

dikhamphaning tsone tse di mo gae tse, sengwe le sengwe se tswa South Africa, mme re

na le dikhamphani tse di rekisang steel gone fa, tse di duelang lekgetho gone mo.

Ke ne ke bua maloba fa Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ka gore, yone tsela e ya

Dutlwe/Morwamosu, fa o ka re o cheka gore dikoloi tsa bomatipane tsa Batswana di kae

tse di thothang motlhaba di o thothela yone project e, fa o ka ipotsa gore di kae, ga gona

le fa e le sepe. Di kae dikoloi tsa Batswana tse di thothang ditena di di isa gone kwa mo?

Ga gona le fa e le epe. Mme le mo go yone tsela e, di kae tse di rwalang konkoreite e le

tsa Batswana di e isa mo tseleng? Di kae tse di rwalang semente sone se se tshelwang mo

tseleng teng kwa tseleng? Ga di yo. Tsa Batswana e tlaa re o tlaa itse gore JCB e ke ya

Motswana, o ya go e fitlhela e eme fa sekeleng gotwe for hire. Ke for hire fela di tletse

disekele, di tladitse disekele tse tsotlhe leswe. Fa o ya go fitlhela teraka ya matipane, o

tlaa itse gore ke ya Motswana, o e fitlhela kwa sekeleng, for hire. Mme projects di teng di

tsweletse mo lefatsheng le. Bana ba rona ba a lela Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente,

ba bolawa ke tlala. Mme o itse gore ke eng, nna ke eta ke bona gore okare le civil

servants a rona tota a re tshameka offside. Ka gore, ga ke dumele gore fa ba ne ba sa re

tshameke offside, ka gore e bile re a ba roma to implement tsone dilo tse, ba ka bo ba

dumela gore ba rurifatse gore empowerment e re buang ka yone e jaaka gone mo
ditseleng mo, mo dikonterakeng, mo go eng,…

MR SEBETELA: Ke kopa tlhaloso Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ke botsa

Motlotlegi yo o buang gore, gone mme badirelapuso ba ka re ema offside jang ka gore,

kana ke rona mapolotiki re tsayang manifestos re di isa kwa bathong, re ba bolelela gore

re ya go dira jaana. Jaanong, kana fa e le gore gongwe badirela puso ba re ema offside,

gongwe ke gore ga ba itse le gore mo maitlamong oo-rra-Domkraga, wa phathi e e

fentseng, o batla eng. Mme kwa mafatsheng a mangwe, kwa New Zealand le UK ba re ba

salang morago, Labour fela fa e sena go fenya, Permanent Secretary mongwe le mongwe

o a bolelelwa gore, kana re tswa go hora batho ka dilo tse, e yang go di dira. A rona re

dira jalo fa re omanya bana jaana?

MR KWELAGOBE: Ke leboga thata gore o bo o mpoditse potso eo. Manifesto, le fa o

ka ya kwa khuduthamageng jaaka ke bua nao jaana, o teng, o ya go o fitlhela fa godimo

ga board e go beilweng melao fa godimo ga yone fale. Manifesto o gone koo. Mme e bile

gape, manifesto one oo, PSP o o neetse Permanent Secretaries.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O itse jang?

MR KWELAGOBE: Ga go tlhoke gore ke lorisiwe ke Gabariele gore o dirile jalo, ke a

itse. Permanent Secretaries tsa rona di tshotse manifesto o. Mme le kwa ntleng ga

manifesto o, kana se se mo maitlamong one ao ke se se mo go Mid- Term Review ya NDP

9. Re di kwadile gone moo. Jaanong, Mid -Term Review e, e tshotse yone megopolo e e

mo maitlamong a rona.

MR LEFHOKO: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente le Mopalamente wa Molepolole South. Rraetsho, ke leboga

gore wa re manifesto o ntse tafole golo gongwe. Ke bo ke leboge gore wa re o
tlhomamisa gore PSP o file boPS manifesto one wa 2004 e bile ke ntse ke botsa ba ba

tshwereng tiro gore a go ntse jalo, ba a rurifatsa. Ga se yone kgang ya rona gore the

shelves kwa diofising tsa boPS di kgabile ka gore mebala ya rona yone ya Domkraga e e

mo maitlamong enhances the colour. Kgang ke gore, a se se mo teng se a diragatswa, e

bile go tlhola mang, leng, go riling? Kgang e foo, it is not the décor, it is the

implementation. I thank you.

MR KWELAGOBE: Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke lebogela gore

bakaulengwe bame ba dumalana le nna. Selelo se ke se lelang ke sone seo gore, ga go

diragale. Ke sone se ke reng, le fa e le one MaChina a Modimo a a re direlang tsela, …

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A ke ba Modimo bone bale?

MR KWELAGOBE: Ee rra. Fa e ne e le gore metlhaba e e thothwang kwa, bomatipane

ba ba mo disekeleng ba ba engagilwe ba a thotha koo, kana ke yone empowerment e re

buang ka yone. Fa e ka bo e le gore metlhaba e e thothwang kwa go agiwang ntlo ya

diteemane teng kwa go thotha dikompone tsa Batswana, Batswana ba ne ba tlaa selasela

sengwe. Jaanong nna se ke se buang ke gore, badirelapuso ba rona le bone okare ba re

tshameka offside. Ke eng ka gore dilo tse di kwadilwe di teng, ke eng…

MR MODUBULE: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker. A rraetsho Mopalamente wa

Molepolole Borwa o ka re tlhalosetsa gore bone bo Permanent Secretary ba a ba fileng

manifesto wa Domkraga, a ke ba phathi ya gagwe? Sa bobedi, ka e bile e le ene Secretary

General wa phathi, mme e bile gape Matona a puso otlhe e le Madomkraga, se se

padisang gore Permanent Secretaries ba netefatse gore se ba se ikaeletseng se dirwe e ka

bo e le eng? Ka ke tsaya gore kwa bofelong Minister ke ene a tsayang boikarabelo jwa

ministry wa gagwe, e seng Permanent Secretary. Mathata a fa kae?
MR KWELAGOBE: Mokaulengwe o a itse gore ga a bolo go lela a bo a bokolela ka

lefatshe le le thubegang kwa Lobatse.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A galaotega.

MR KWELAGOBE: Ehe, a galaotega ka lefatshe le le thubegang kwa Lobatse, a

ngongoregela yone implementation. Jaanong tota ga ke itse gore selelo sa gago rraetsho

nna ke ne ke ithaya ke re se tlaa welana le same gore …Kana fa o kgweetsa dikgomo, ga

o iteye ya naagastere fela. O itaya naagastere le foroose, jalo jalo. Jaanong fa e le gore

badirelapuso ba mo teng ga team e e tshwanetseng gore e diragatse, ga gona ka fa ke ka

ba tlogelang ka teng, ka gore ba mo go yone team eo. Gore a ke Madomkraga, gore a ke

ba opposition, gore a ke a itse gore ba ka bo ba le mo go efe phathi, moo ga se kgang e

bile ga ke na sepe gore ba mo go efe. Se ke se lebileng fela ke gore, rona re na le tumelo

ya gore, phathi nngwe le nngwe, modirelapuso o tlaa direla kana a dirisiwa ke phathi

nngwe le nngwe e e tlaa bong e busa ka nako e e busang ka yone. So, ga ke tlhoke go itse

gore ba fa kae mo sepolotiking. Se ke se buang ke gore, re na le projects mo lefatsheng

le, projects tse, a Batswana ba kgone go imona menwana. Le tlaa gakologelwa,

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente o ne a le teng fa ke bua mafoko a, ke raya

Minister of Finance ke re, Minister, jaaka gompieno re voutela P5.8 billion development

budget, bokae jwa yone, what percentage e re ka tlhomamisang gore Batswana ba ya go

imokonamokona mo go yone. Mme kana ke ne ke buela mo go tsone projects tse gore la

bofelo Batswana ba sela eng mo teng. Jaanong, re fitlhela e le gore, ba kokona lerapo le

lesweu fela batho ba Modimo. Mme sa rona fela ke go itlhaganelela go nna re re ga ba

fetse projects. Ba tlaa di fetsa kae go sena ka fa ba neelwang meamuso gore ba reke dilo,

the tools of trade.
MR MODUBULE: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker. Ke ne ke re, mokaulengwe a

ntlhalosetse gore, a ene ka fa a bonang ka teng, badirelapuso ke bone ba ba sa

diragatseng. Kana sekai se a se mphang sa Lobatse, nna ke dumela gore ke boammaaruri

se a se buang. Mme nna ke dumela gore there is somebody in charge. Go na le mongwe

yo e leng gore o tshwanetse gore ene dilo tse di felele fa go ene and according to my

understanding, that is the Minister. Gore a go palelwa bo-Tona go netefatsa gore ba ba ba

okametseng ba dira tiro ya bone ka tlhoafalo. Kana seemo ke eng? Because nna ke

dumela gore rraetsho, le fa ke batla tlhaloso mo go wena, somebody must take charge of

his/her ministry. Ga re ka ke ra baya mo Permanent Secretaries gore ke bone ba

tsamaisang puso e. It is you yo o ileng kwa batlhophing wa re, re tlhopheng re tlaa

diragatsa se se tlhokagalang.

MR KWELAGOBE: Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, mokaulengwe yo o

tlotlegang, ga ke re o bona one mafoko a o a nthayang ao, e re fela jaaka o ema o bua, o

bo o bua one ao. Jaanong mme nna mma ke tswelele le mosepele wame, ke kgone gore

ke feleletse. Bakaulengwe ba tle ba ntseye tema ka gore go na le motion wa ga

Honourable Sebetela o o tlang, ke sa ntse ke tlile go peperetla mo go one. O, ke ne ke

leboga fela ke lebogela MaChina ka gore e rile maloba ka utlwa ekete a a tlhaselwa.

Jaanong nna ke re ee, batho bao ba re thusitse thata, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente, re le mo legwatateng, re le mo letshogong le le tona, re sena lefa e le molamu

o re ka konopang ka one. Mme ba ne ba re bolelela re ile ko go bone ba re raya ba re,

rona mo China mo we are not merchants of death, therefore ga reye go le rekisetsa

molamu o re ka o le neelang. Ba bo ba re neela melamu eo, ga ba ise ba ko ba e re

rekisetse. Ba bo ba e tsamaisa ya bo ya goroga fa. Jaanong ke re, a e ne e re rona
Mapalamente re bua ka mafatshe a mangwe a a re thusitseng, re seka ra ne re kgala fela,

re leke go tlhaloganya gore mme tota batho ba bone ba re thusitse go le kae.

Tona nngwe e teng gone fa gompieno, e ne ya re re le mo thoromong ya lefatshe a re o

betsega ka fensetere, ba re o ya go kopana le letlere le bulegile ka koo, nna teng moo. Ga

ke nke ke e supe ka monwana mme e teng gone fa, Tona nngwe o ne a re o a sia, a tshaba

thoromo e ya lefatshe. E ne e le nna fela yo ke neng ke ka nna fela. Mme re le koo, batho

ba ba Modimo ba re thusa. Jaanong nna ke ne ke re, re ba leboge mme ke bo ke re, nnyaa,

a e re jaaka re dira tsela ele, Tona, re potlakele tse dingwe tse di e potileng ka kwano tse e

leng gore they are east of that road ka gore jaaka ke ne ke bua ditsela tse di ka kwano ga

yone di ditshesane, mo e leng gore jaanong fa dikoloi di tswa kwa, e tlaa tla e nna

accidents fela kafa. Jaanong fa e ne e ka re e sa ntse e tshwerwe jaana rra wa senkela tse

di ka kwano tse di tshesanyane tse; mebilanyana e e kwano, wa e senkela madi gore le

yone e atoloswe, e tle e lekane le e e ka kwa, dikoloi di tlaa kgona go tsamaya sentle.

Mme tota e ne e se go goga-goga puo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke

itlhokoletsa motion wa ga Mokaulengwe Rre Sebetela, ke ne ke re, ke brashe-brashe ke

utlwe gore a e tlaa re tsatsi la ke o bua ke tlaa bo ke siame sentle. Thank you, Mr Speaker.

MR NAGAFELA (LETLHAKENG WEST): Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo

tsa Palamente. Bagaetsho, mo gongwe boammaaruri bo tshwanetse bo buiwe, bogolo

jang ka boammaaruri bo a boloka e bile bo a golola. Ke tshwanetse ke go leboge Tona ke

ise ke e kgakala, ke go lebogele gore o bo o ne wa re kopela madi a tsela eo. Go ka tlhola

go na le metlhala mengwe e e patileng kopo. Metlhale eo ga e gaise se se re boetseng. Ko

kgaolong ya rona Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, re tshela fela ka namolo leuba,

fa e le gore Modimo o thusitse ga nna leuba, ke gone bana ba rona ba ka yang go itlosa
bodutu. Jaanong fa, MaChina ba re tlhomogetse pelo, bogolo jang ka re sena yo o ka re

tlhomogelang pelo, ba re tlhomogetse pelo, Modimo o go segofatse Tona le MaChina.

Bagaetsho, ke tlaa nna “area specific”, ke itebaganya le kgaolo tsa rona tse MaChina ba

leng ko go tsone. Mme fa o bona motho a go adima madi, a bo a re o tlaa nama a go

neetse dingwaga tse tlhano a sa go lope sepe, o bone gore motho yo o pelontle, mo go

supang gore le jaaka re ne re tle re tshosiwe bogologolo, re bolelelwa gore Makomanisi

ga ba a siama, ka nte re ne re tshosiwa ka batho ba ba molemo go le kana. „Hee, kana

bokomanisi, go tseelanwa dilo, le mosadi ga o ka ke wa nna le mosadi, lefa e le koloi ga o

ka ke wa nna le yone, yo mongwe o tlaa tsena ka key a tsamaya.‟ MaChina ke ba, ba a re

thusa. Ga ba re tseele dikoloi. Ba ne ba nna ko jarateng ya me ko Ditshegwane two years,

mme ga ke ise ke ko ke bone mosetsana wa MoChina lefa e le mosetsana wa Motswana a

le ko go bone.

Jaanong golo moo nna ke ne ka bona gore kante Makomanisi ba patelediwa fela ba

siame. Mme lefa go ntse jalo, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, fa o neelwa madi

ke motho a go adima, a bo a go raya a re mme lefa go ntse jalo ke go adima madi a, e re o

boloka batho o gopole bongwanake. Ga go gakgamatse, madi ke a gagwe, o ya go nna o o

ja merokotswana e e mo teng, ngwaga tse tlhano tseo bana ba motho yole le bone ba

tshela. Kana mathata a MaChina ke a batho ba ba ba busang. Mathata a bone ga se bone,

mathata a bone ga se Batswana, mathata a bone ke a batho ba ba ba busang. Fa ba le

bontsi bo kalo-kalo, ditiro di sa bonale sentle, ba bile ba pitlagane mo go kalo, ba

tshwanetse ba nne le ko ba ba thubelang teng gore ba ye go ba otlela teng koo. Ke sone se

o bonang e re madi a tla, fa re utlwa fa e le gore go boammaaruri, gatwe le Mapantiti a

bone a kgona go bulelwa gore ditoronko di sale di tsenwa ke phefo, ba tla go aga ditsela,
ba direla puso ya bone madi. Ke gore e sa nne ba ba otlwang fela, mme puso e sa boelwe

ke sepe. Jaanong ba ba tabolela kwano, ba fokotsa ditoronko, ba rona ba a gatana mo, ga

go itsiwe le gore ba ka isiwa kae, ka ga go na se ba ka isiwang koo ka sone. Jaanong fa ba

tlisitswe jaana, ka yone thulaganyo ya gore dikompone tsa bone ke tsone di tlaa neelwang

tiro ya mofuta o o tlaa bong o kopetswe madi, kana go raya gore rona re ja mo go five

years yo re mo neetsweng yo wa grace period, go tswa foo re bo re neelwa le percentage

e potlana e re e duelang mo sebakeng sa ngwaga tse some. Golo moo go siame.

Fa re tsaya the rural economy ko dikgaolong tsa rona, ko e leng gore fa dipula di nele

namolo leuba e seyo, banana ga go na fa ba tsenyang diatla teng, basadibagolo ba ba sa

ntseng ba itekanetse, ba ka rwala ditlatlana ka metlhabanyana ba isa fa go dirwang teng,

MaChina a tswa go thusa jaana. Se ke neng ka se bona, ba rile ba tsena ba simolola tsela

ya Letlhakeng-Dutlwe, ba ya mo metseng ya Letlhakeng, ba ya mo Sesung, ba ya mo

Ditshegwane, ba hirisa mantlo babereki ba MaChina e le gore batho jaanong ba dule mo

dipolatenyaneng tsa bone; ba dule mo mantlong a bone a marantafole, ba a rentisa.

Itsholelo ya bone kana fa go nna jaana e a tokafala. Fa go sena go nna go rentisiwa

mantlo jaana le dimausu di simolola go rekelwa thata ka jaana kgwedi fa e fela MaChina

ba duela batho, ba kgona go ya mo mabenkeleng, ba kgona go ya mo dimausung ba reka.

Selo seo se bo se tokafatsa matshelo a bone. Se tokafatsa matshelo a ba ba tshwereng ka

diatla, se tokafatse matshelo a ba ba sa tshwarang ka diatla mme ba na le mantlo. Selo seo

ke sengwe se se botlhokwa mo tokafatsong ya itsholelo ya dikgaolo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ditlogolo tsone?

MR NAGAFELA: Monna yo, go a bonala ko Palapye ke mathata fela. Ke gore o

kgatlhegetse fela go batla ditlogolo; ke gore o a rekisa kwa, konteraka nngwe le nngwe fa
e tla o rekisetsa gore a bone ditlogolo. Jaanong ke gore o ntlhola fa a reng a nna ga ke a

ka ka rekisa kwa. Rona ga re dire jalo. Ga re rekise re batla ditlogolo. Ga ke bue ka ba e

leng gore itsholelo ya gagwe e tlaa nna botoka ka gore ntsalae o tserwe ke LeChina ampo

gongwe jalo. Nnyaa, eo ga ke mo go yone, ke gore o nkisa ko go yone nna ke se mo go

yone. Ke bua ka madi a a bereketsweng sentle, e seng a a bereketsweng ka ditsela tse di

bosula.

Mme bagaetsho, MaChina lefa e ebile ba re thusa jaana, re tshwanetse re nne re supe

dingwe tse e leng gore lefa go ntse jalo, di patile bomolemo jwa bone. Fa ba hira

Batswana ba na le ditselana tse di boretshwa, ke gore ka mokgwa wa bone fa o bereka mo

go bone, o seka wa ba wa mo raya wa re go na le leso ke ya phitlhong. Go molato; o a

kojwa. Ke sone sengwe fela se e leng gore ba tena ka sone fa go tla mo tlhokomelong ya

babereki. Ke gore o seka wa ba wa nna le ope yo o swang, a e nna rrago, a e nna eng, o

bereke, ka gore bone ba batla go fetsa tiro. Ke gore kwa ga bone koo teng ga go ke go

swiwa. Jaanong ba tlaa bo ba beile melawana e e thata ya gore fa o ka ya lesong le le

lengwe fela, ba go itshwarela weekend eo, e seka ya bo ya re ka tsatsi lepe lefa o ka lora

wa re go a bo go sule yo mongwe gape. Ke gone fa ba leng bosula teng.

MR MODUBULE: Point of clarification. Ke ne ke re, mokaulengwe a tlhalose gore ene

kafa a bonang ka teng a tota ke molato wa MaChina kana rona Batswana ga re diragatse

melao ya tsa pereko, ka gore ke dumela gore melao e teng e e tshwanetseng gore e salwe

morago.

MR NAGAFELA: Ke a leboga, Rraetsho. Ga se molato wa MaChina. Fa e ka re o na le

moraka wa bo o hira badisa, e bo e re o sena go ba hira dikgomo di tsala, ba bolaya

marole ka monokela, wena o sena sepe le gone moo kana jaanong ba fitlhetse serowa se
epilwe ke tlou, jaanong ba dira go rata le go kgona. Lephata la Labour le palelwa thata.

Le palelwa fela mo go utlwisang botlhoko. Ke gakologelwa tsatsi lengwe go ne go na le

mongwe mo ofising ya ga Rre Mokgothu, o ne a tumile thata ka go thusa babereki le ba

bangwe jalo. Jaanong MaChina ba kgaola batho fela ba ise ba bo ba fetse lefa e le beke;

go re mathata e ne e le eng, nnyaa, ga se sepe fela. Ra bo re leka dithulaganyo tsa gore re

bitse ba Labour ba ye go thusa. Ga ke itse gore le ba ba a tleng ba ye teng ko MaChineng,

a ba tshaba MaChina gore ba tloga ba emisa madi gore ba tlhole ba a tlisa Botswana

kante a ba neetswe thuto nngwe ya gore batho bao le ba seketletse ba botlhokwa thata, ba

a ya, fa ba tsena koo, kgantele o bona ba sietswe „coke‟. Kgang ga o ka ke wa itse fa e

feletseng teng. Bao ba etse ruri, ba ntshitswe.

Ke kile ka ba ka tla fa go Tona wa Labour ka mo raya ka re kwa re apesitswe ke

MaZimbabwe. Fa e le dikolotsana, e le eng, go kgweetsa MaZimbabwe fela bana ba rona

ga gona fa ba tsenyang diatla teng. A bo a nthaya a re re tlaa ya go ba tsoma, e tlaa re ba

sa ntse ba re ba a theogela fela e bo e bile re tsena gone foo. E sale jaaka go iwa go

phuruphutshwa ka kgwedi yone eo, go tswa foo ma China a dira go rata le go kgona ga

go na yo o yang koo, nnyaa, ke bothata fela. MaChina ba tsietsa jaana melao e le teng.

Ke gakologelwa maloba ke tsena ko Dutlwe ke tewa gotwe kana batho ba ba MaChina go

na le kompone nngwe e ba sa batleng go e hira mo Dutlwe. Mme e bile fa re riana, go bua

batho go tletswe fela mo kgotleng. Ke bo ke tsaya bo-modulasetilo ba Village

Development Committee (VDC) le ba bangwe re tsamaya re ya fa MaChineng re ba raya

re re, re utlwa gore go na le mathatanyana mo motseng gatwe ga le hire batho ba fane ya

gore e bile ga le hire basadi, jaanong bolela gore mathata a kompone e ke eng, bolela

gore basadi ba le sa ba hiring ba le ba kgethololelang. MoChina a bo a re o itse gore ke
eng, company e ya rona e ga go tle mongwe le mongwe fela a e laola, o ka nna wa ya ko

o ratang go ya teng. Ga ke re o bona gore ga a nkarabe gore ke eng ba sa hire batho ba

fane ya gore ko Dutlwe, ke eng ba sa hire basadi, o nthaya fela a re nnyaa rra company e

ga e laelwe ke mongwe le mongwe fela yo o tlang fa, o ka nna wa ya ko o yang teng. O a

itse ka utlwa botlhoko ka MoChina yoo. Ka nna ka leka go mo tlakisa gore ke mmontshe

gore go kgetholola motho ka gore o fana jang le go kgetholola motho ka gore ke mosadi

go molato mo Botswana, ga pala ga a ise a tle a ntlhokomele, la bofelo ka mo tlogela. Fa

ke tshwere phuthego ko kgotleng MoChina yo ka lesego, ga ke itse gore o ne a re o ya go

batla eng fela fa kgotleng, ke bo ke raya lepodise ke re tlaa le MoChina le. Lepodise le bo

le tla le ene, ka re MoChina bolelela morafe o gore o hira jang mo motseng wa bone.

Jaanong ke a bona a bo a tshoga lepodise, jaanong foo ke gone a tlaa tswang ka nnete a

bolela mathata a a nang le one. Jaanong ba lenyatso gape, mme ba lenyatso jaana ba sena

sepe le melao ya Botswana le fa o bona ba re thusitse jaana. Fa go tla mo mabakeng a,

jaaka Motlotlegi Rre Kwelagobe a ne a bua ka bomatipane ba Batswana le tse dingwe

fela jalo… Legale Tona o tlaa tlhalosa, gore a mo ditumalanong tsa gagwe

Tona le MaChina go tilwe le tlaa hira company ya MaChina ke yone e yang go dira, mme

le dikoloi go a go bereka tsa MaChina fela. Gongwe temana eo le yone e a bo e le teng

gongwe re re fela re re ga ba tseye dikoloi tsa Batswana temana e le yone e le teng. Se se

mpuisang ke gore fa ba simolola tsela ya Letlhakeng-Dutlwe ba re ba tla ka

bomatipanenyana ba ba hibidu fela jaana ba maswe jaana ko teng ba tswa teng ko China.

Jaanong bomatipane ba, ya bo e nna bone ba ba berekisiwang, ga bo go tloga go tla ba

bangwe ba basweu jaana. Bomatipane ba ke bone ba berekang fela MaChina a gata maje,

a gata motlhaba, a gata semente a gata eng, ke bomatipane ba MaChina.
Ga go na ope wa Motswana, go ne go na le Batswana ba ba neng ba a tle ba tle ko go

bone ba eletsa gore ba ba kwalele dikwalo tsa gore ba kope madi mo Citizen

Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA) gore ba reke bomatipane ba ye go ba

hirisa koo, ba pala. Ga ba ise ba ko ba kwalele le fa e le motho a le mongwe fela lekwalo

la gore fa a ka rekelwa matipane ke CEDA ba tlaa mo neela tiro. Mo go rayang gore ke

na le pelaelo ya gore temana nngwe mo ditumalanong gongwe e teng ya gore ba dirise

bomatipane ba bone fela. Mme le fa go ntse jalo ke ntse ke batla go supa gore MaChina

ba re thusitse, bontsi jwa banana ba rona ba bereka mo MaChineng, bangwe ba bile ba

lebega ba tlaa ithuta le yone tiro tota.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le sone Sechaena tota.

MR NAGAFELA: Ee nnyaa e bile ba utlwana nabo thata, ba bua sone se sa

mantlwanenyana, puonyana e ya bone ya mantlwane e, jaanong ba utlwana ka yone thata

mo e leng gore o ka bona gore banna botshelo bo re dirisa dilo, ba setse ba bua puonyana

ya matlwane fela mme ba kgona go utlwana ka yone. Jaanong one MaChina a se ba se

dirang, le fa e le ka letsatsi lone le, Ma Zimbabwe a ntse a kgoreletsa Batswana mo

ditirong tse e seng tsa boitsaanape bope fela, mme re ntse re lela. Maloba fa ke le ko

Dutlwe fa go ngongoregwa ka tsela e ba hirang ka yone le tse dingwe, ba re, a ko o re

biletse ba Labour ba tle go re thusa. Le ka letsatsi le ga go na ope wa Labour yo o

tsamayang ko Dutlwe kwa, MaChina a sotla batho go sena yo o ka ba namolang.

Tona ke tshwanetse ke go lebogele gore o bo o ne wa reetsa kopo ya batho ba ko

Tsetseng. Batho ba motse wa Tsetseng ba ne ba kile ba agologa, ba agolotswe ke

Mopalamente wa bone. E rile ba bua ka tsela yone e ya Letlhakeng-Kang, go tilwe e tlaa

feta mo gare ga Tsetseng le Motokwe, fa batho ko Motokwe ba mo raya ba re ga go kake
ga ya go bewa junction bokgakala ba 36 kilometres mo nageng e go senang le fa e le

motsana le fa e le moraka le fa e le sepe, batho ba ka tla ba jewa ke ditau koo. Fa motho a

fologa mo setopong seo e le gore o tshwanetse go ya Motokwe potso e nna gore, fa go le

maitseboa kante go le bosigo a sa bone koloi e e ka mo pegang go ya Motokwe o lala fa

kae fa? A bo a ba raya a re heelang yo o le reileng a re sekontere se a boloka ke mang, le

gone se tsisa ditlhabololo, fa le se batla mo motseng wa lona jaana. Kana le a bo le bua

jaana le batla gore se tlhamaladiwe mo motseng wa lona, ke ka nna ka le tseela ko

Mabutsane. O ne a re bo-Mabutsane, bo-Sekoma gore le ye go bona gore sekontere se

teng mme ditlhabololo ga di yo, yo o neng a le raya a re sekontere se tsisa ditlhabololo e

ne e le mang, o a ba omanya. Ke gore jaanong Dan ga a yo ka gore ke ene a rileng re a

itse gore Mopalamente o ne a a tle a bue ka tsela eo. Rona re itse a ne a bua jaana, a ba a

dira metlae fa ba mo raya ba re ke eng e ya go feta kgakala jaana, e seng o e isa ko

dipolaseng tsa gago. Jaanong a bo a ba clowna a bo a re pula e le nele tseleng le ya Kang.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Laughter!

MR NAGAFELA: Jaanong eo ga se yone kgang e e ka ntiyang, ke ne ke raya fela gore

ke supe gore gone jaaka gotwe o ne a a tle a bue ka tsela rona re itse a ne a a tle a bue ka

tsela jaana.

MR SEBETELA: On a point of elucidation Mr Speaker. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente, ke ne ke re tsela e go buiwang ka yone e fa e buisanngwa e rerwa bangwe ba

rona re ne re le teng. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, nna ke batla go rurifatsa fela

gore fa e le gore Rre Mokgothu o ne a bua jalo a le koo tsela e fa e rerwa go bo e ntse

jaaka e ntse jaana e ne e le mongwe wa batho ba ba neng ba kgaratlha thata. E tswa la

ntlha e ne e le khutshwanyanenyana, mme e bile bangwe ba rona ba re tswang ko
dikgaolong di sele re ngongorega gore ga e ka ke ya re tsela e simologile gotwe

Letlhakeng go a go tsena gone ko go yone e, e bo e fetela ko pele jaanong e bo e tsala tse

dingwe mo tseleng.

Re ngongorega gore ke eng tsela e e tswa ko go boninety something jaanong e ya go

felela e le bo140, jaaka Tona a ne a bua gore e oketsegile go tsenya kwa le kwa. Ke re,

nnyaa, fa e le gore o ne a rialo koo mme ko e neng e rerwa teng o ne a lwa tota gore e nne

jaaka e ntse jaana.

MR NAGAFELA: Nnyaa mme re a leboga Rra. Tota o ne a emetse goromente fela a sa

emela ba a neng a ba emetse, ke sone se a neng a bua botswerere ko goo-ragoromente ko

bathong a bo a bua se sele, foo ga ke ka ke ka go ganetsa rra. Fa a ne a lwa ntwa e ke e

itseng batho mo Motokwe ba ne ba re a e tsamae mo go e kgologolo e tle Motokwe e bo e

ya go wela ko Morwamosu, ene a re nnyaa e ya go feta fa gare ga Tsetseng le Motokwe,

e bo e ya go wela fela straight ko Kanjana, a bua jaana. Ke gore ene o ne a sa rate e ya

Motokwe ka fa batho ba neng ba kopa ka teng.

Kana go ne go na le option one e e neng e re e fete fa gare ga metse ya Tsetseng le

Motokwe go tle go nne le junction e e yang ko Tsetseng le junction e e yang ko

Motokwe, ga bo go boa go nna le option ya gore e sale tsela e kgologolo morago. Mme

ene o ne a rata option e e reng e ralale fela fa gare jaana go tle go nne junctions tse di

yang ko metseng, ke sone se nneng ba se thulanela le batho. Jaanong gore o ne a buile

botswerere jang ko Khuduthamageng, nnyaa, o ne a tshwanetse a bue botswerere ko

Khuduthamageng mme ko bathong ga a a ka a bua jalo. Jaanong tota kgang ya rona ga se

Mokgothu , bagaetsho, ke kopa maitshwarelo. Mma ke tswelele le kgang e nna ke leng

mo go yone. Ke ne ke sa ntse ke tlhalosa gore ke leboge Tona gore a bo a ne a reetsa
dilelo tsa batho ba Tsetseng. Selelo sa batho ba Tsetseng sa ntlha, se Tona o se arabileng

ke se.

MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (MS

VENSON-MOITOI): On a point of elucidation Mr Speaker. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke a leboga le wena Mokaulengwe Motlotlegi Nagafela go bo

o mphile sebaka. Ke ne ke re, kana fa gongwe mafoko a a a kwalwa. Mme fa a kwalwa

jaaka Honourable Sebetela a ne a bua, tsela mo letsatsing la gompieno e na le ka fa e

emeng ka teng. Mme go bo go raya gore mongwe moemedi wa batho bao ka nako e e

neng e dumalanwa gore e eme jalo o ne a le teng. Jaanong ga ke eletse, legale Motswana

o rile „disela mmapa,‟ ka gore gantsi ke dumalana le wena Honourable Nagafela, mo

dilong di le dintsi le ka fa o bopang puo ya gago ka teng, mme mo go e ke na le

mathatanyana a gore mo nakong ya gompieno re bua ka tsela e e setseng e dumalanwe.

Kana MaChina ba ne ba ka seke ba tlise madi fa go sa dumalanwa gore tsela e a go

tsamaya jang, go bo go raya gore mongwe pele ga Palamente e o ne a dumalana le puso

gore tsela e e ya go tsamaya jang. Mme tsamaiso ya ga Domkrag ga go ka ke ga tsewa

tshwetso ya alignment ya tsela moemedi wa batho a seyo. Mafoko a ga Motlotlegi Rre

Sebetela a a tsewe a agelwe mosako, ke gone ko kgang e leng teng. Ke a leboga rraetsho.

MR NAGAFELA: Ee re a leboga.

MR MODUBULE: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker. I do not wish to make any

dialogue. Mme se ke batlang gore ke se tlhalose ke gore rraetsho kana fa re le baemedi ba

batho, re le fa re ka nna le megopolo ya rona. Mme fa it is not necessarily gore megopolo

ya rona ke yone e e yang go diragadiwa ke goromente. Jaanong gone moo ke tsaya gore

gongwe jaanong re tla mo seemong sa gore re tloge re nna re ya go batla di Hansard. Nna
ke ne ke re mokaulengwe o rile o boela morago puo eo ka gore tota ga go buiwe ka

Mokgothu.

HONOURABLE MEMBER:… (Inaudible)…

MR MODUBULE: No, he said that, go ka batliwa le mokwalo fa e le gore ba ba

rekhodang ba rekhoda sentle. That is what he said.

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, indeed Honourable Nagafela said

that he was not going to pursue the issue on the former Member of Parliament‟s (MP)

matters because that was outside the subject matter.

But I just want to draw your attention back again to what the Standing Orders are saying,

that is Standing Order 46 (1) and it reads thus, “A Member shall restrict his observations

to the subject under discussion.” The subject under discussion this afternoon is the

Second Reading of a Bill, the Bill that calls upon Parliament to bring about an Act that

ratifies an agreement entered into between the Government of Botswana and the Export-

Import Bank of China for the Dutlwe-Morwamosu road.

All that the Minister is requesting from his colleagues is for them to either ratify or not

ratify. The ratification will have the effect of Botswana sourcing funding from this

institution for the completion of the road. The refusal to ratify will mean there will be no

money immediately to complete the construction of the road. Issues about who said what

about the alignment, which direction the road was going to take, the kind of labour

relations that the Chinese have vis-à-vis the Batswana employees might be relevant

because we are dealing with a policy matter, but the fact of the matter is we are not

addressing the objectives of the Bill. Shall we confine our debate to the subject matter;

our illustrations tend to be much longer than the debate on the substantive matter, which
is an appeal to Members to ratify or not ratify the Bill. Shall we just confine ourselves to

that because probably funds are awaited for urgently and spending weeks and months

debating on this long-winded debate may delay the actual transfer of funds and therefore

delay the road construction and bring about cost overruns. Let us try to be more

businesslike in this matter. I thank you.

MS TSHIRELETSO: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Are you clarifying what the Speaker has said Honourable Member?

MS TSHIRELETSO: No Sir.

MR SPEAKER: Okay, proceed.

MS TSHIRELETSO: E seng mo go wena Mr Speaker. Tota nna ke ne ke le mo kopong

gore, mokaulengwe ga a ise a boele mafoko kwa morago. Mme Mma Venson,

Mopalamente yo o tlotlegang, o ne a bua boammaaruri gore tota mafoko a a kwalwang fa

a nne nnete. O rile tota kgang ga se Mokgothu, ke batla go tswelela ke tlogela ele, e se

gore she is withdrawing. Tota boammaaruri ke gore tsela e e dirwa jaana e le gore go ne

go na le moemedi ka nako eo yo o e bueletseng gore e nna jang, jaanong gompieno re

batla madi.

MR SPEAKER: My ruling is that we confine ourselves to the debate from now on,

please.

MR NAGAFELA: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker. Ga ke na nako ya go senya nako ka kgang

eo, ke dule mo go yone. Ke tswelela le se nna ke neng ke se bua le Tona ka gore nnete

yone ke a e itse.

Ke rile Tona, ke go lebogela gore o bo o ne wa utlwa batho ba Tsetseng. Batho ba

Tsetseng ba ne ba na le dikopo di le pedi, ya ntlha e o e arabileng ke gore tsela ya bone e
e yang go tswang kwa Kang e ya go tla e le sekontere. Ke karabo e e botlhokwa e ba

neng ba e tlhoka, ke tshwanetse ke e go lebogele. Kopo ya bone ya bobedi e ke akanyang

gore ka e bile o itse go adima madi le go a duela, ba rile re kope puso, ke gore re go kope

Tona gore ee, ke tsela e e siameng go tswa kwa Kang go tla mo Tsetseng, mme le fa e

siame ke gore motho fa a tswa mo Tsetseng a batla go tla Molepolole, o ya Kgalagadi

pele. A tsamaya 31 km a ya kwa Kang, a tswa mo Kang a tsamaya 57 km a ya

Morwamosu, a tswa mo Morwamosu, a romoga jaanong a leba ntlheng ya Kweneng, o

boa a tsaya 26 km go ya kwa Motokwe. Jaanong ba re, for the time being, ba tsenyediwe

sekontere go tswa kwa Kang go tsena kwa Tsetseng. E o e arabileng e siame.

Jaanong ya bobedi ba re, a e ka re ke tshwanetse go ya Kweneng ke bo ke ya go boa kwa

Kgalagadi pele? Jaanong ba re keletso ya bone e ne e le gore rra, e re o kopa a mangwe

kwa MaChineng gape o ba akanyetse ka gore fa o tswa mo Tsetseng o ya kwa Motokwe,

ke 62 km. Mme fa o tswa mo Tsetseng o ya kwa Tshwaane, ke gore o ya go joena

sekontere se se tswang mo Tsetseng kwa Tshwaane, ke 62 km gape. Ba re fa ba

tsenyediwa sekontere go tswa mo Tsetseng go ya go wela mo Tshwaane e le 62 km, e tlaa

bo e le gore fa ba tla Kweneng ga ba ye go boa kwa Kgalagadi pele, ba tlaa tlhamalela

fela le tsela e e tlang ka Lechalaborize ba bo ba joena sekontere sone se se yang kwa

Morwamosu fa Tshwaane. Ke gore, ke nngwe ya dikopo tse e leng gore e tla a re o ntse o

akanya rra, le yone o e akanyetse. Ee rra, gongwe e ka re fa o pitlaganye ya ya go tsena

kwa NDP 10, mme tsela e tlhoka gore e bo e le sekontere.

Jaanong, rona kana bagaetsho ka re setse re solofela thuso ya rona kwa China fela, ke

akanya gore ka letsatsi la boipuso ngwaga o, fa le ipelela dingwaga tse di masome a mane

lefatshe le le ipusa, nna ke ya go ja mokete wa go ipelela thuso ya MaChina, e seng ya
lona. Ke gore rona boipuso jwa rona bo kwa China. Fa MaChina ba ne ba seyo, e ne e

tlaa bo e le kutlobotlhoko fela. Mme nna e tlaa re letsatsi leo rra ke bo ke apeile

makunyanyana, ke a a ja ke ipelela gore MaChina e nnile bone ba ba re tsiseditseng

matlhotlhora a boipuso. Fa e ne e se bone, gongwe tsela eo re ne re tlaa bo re swe e ise e

dirwe. Mme ba re thusitse bagaetsho ka ditlhwatlhwa tse di kwa tlase. Re tshwanetse re

ba lebogele seo.

MINISTER        OF     FINANCE        AND      DEVELOPMENT             PLANNING       (MR

GAOLATHE): On a point of clarification Mr Speaker. You have already advised us that

we should really not wander away from the Bill, but I think the Honourable Member may

be wandering away again. Without independence, the tarring of this road would not be

taking place.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Nagafela, I wish you could confine yourself to the subject

matter.

MR NAGAFELA: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Mme kana gatwe

re leboge batho fa ba re diretse. Jaanong MaChina ke ntse ke a ba leboga gore ke batho

ba ba pelontle. Le wena Motlotlegi Tona ke a go leboga, o itse go tlhokomela itsholelo ya

lefatshe, e bile o itse go adima madi mme o bo o a duele sentle. Ke a go leboga le

MaChina.

Jaanong, e nngwe ke gore, o kare e rile go buiwa ka MaChina gatwe gantsi fa ba se na go

nna ba neelwa konteraka e ba e neelwang, o ka re ga ba neele Batswana ditironyana

dingwe tse ba ka di dirang. Ke batla go supa …

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Eo o e buile.

MR NAGAFELA: Ga ke a e bua, ke gore o utlwela go sele o ka re o potsane.
Dingwe tsa ditiro tse di neetsweng Batswana tse ke ka tlhomamisang gore ba ne ba di

dira, go teratela tsela yone e ya rona go ne go dirwa ke Batswana. Ba go neetswe ke

MaChina, ga go dirwe ke MaChina. Cattle grids di ne di dirwa ke Batswana, le tsone ba

ne ba di neetswe. Le dilo tse di tshwanang le bush clearing, go ne go ntse go neelwa

dikonteraka tsa Batswana. Access roads le tsone di ne di neelwa dikonteraka tsa

Batswana. Go ne go na le konteraka e e neng e dira tsela from junction ya Ditshegwane, e

ne e le ya Letsatsi. Go ne go na le e e neng e bidiwa Zak, e ne e e dira from the junction e

ya kwa Metsebotlhoko. Go supa gore, le fa tota bontsi jwa dipoelo di ya mo konterakeng

ya MaChina, Batswana le bone matlhotlhora a ntse a wela mo diatleng tsa bone. Jaanong,

golo moo ga se mmoa fela, go a bo go na le sengwe se Batswana le bone ba se robang mo

thulaganyong e e ntseng jalo.

Gone tsela e re e direlwang e, e e bonalang e le tsela fela e e duleng diatla, re tshwanetse

re supe gore kopo e e fetisiwe ka mabaka a gore e ya go khutshwafaletsa batho mosepele

wa go ya kwa Gantsi le boNamibia, e khutshwafatsa boleele jwa kgaolo go tswa ka

kwano go ya ntlheng ya boGantsi. Mme selo seo se botlhokwa, ga re ka ke ra itebatsa

gore fa go kotswa gore madi ao re fetise molao o gore re a bone, a ya go dira selo se se

tona.

Mme e nngwe ke gore re tshwanetse re supe gore yone tsela e jaaka e dirwa jaana, Tona

ya babereki, re tshwanetse re kope gore e re le fa re amogela tsela eo le tiro e e dirwang, o

tlhomamise gore batho ba Labour Department ba etela konteraka nako le nako ba utlwa

dilelo tsa Batswana, e se ka ya tloga ya re mo nakong e khutshwane wa bo o

tsogologetswe ke Batswana o ne o rile o ba direla se se molemo. Jaanong dira jalo,

Batswana ba se ka ba jewa ntsoma lephata la gago le le teng Tona. Le bontsintsi jwa
MaZimbabwe a a setseng a tsere diphatlha tsa Batswana le bone gore le ya go ba fokotsa

le setse tsamaiso ya molao morago. Selo seo se botlhokwa thata, ga re ka ke ra nna fela re

re MaChina ba re neetse madi, tsela e a dirwa, gore Batswana ba tshwerwe jang gone re

sa tshwenyege ka gone.

Jaanong Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke batla ke fetse ka gore, ke ne ke

simolotse ka go supa gore ke ema Tona nokeng mo kopong ya gagwe, mme ke a

ipuseletsa ka re ke go ema nokeng gore madi ao re a neelwe go ye go fediwa tsela eo ya

rona ka bofefo.

Batswana ba kgaolo ya rona ba nne ba welwe ke matlhotlhora. E bile ka go tlaa dika go

sena namola leuba ba ye go tshela.

PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED FOR APPROXIMATELY

                                     30 MINUTES

MR SEBETELA (PALAPYE): Madam Speaker, I stand to support the Minister. When I

contributed in the other bill pertaining to the 293 houses for Botswana Housing

Corporation, I raised an issue of whether the loan agreement says we owe the Yuan 150

million or P104 million. The significance of the question Madam Speaker is based on the

fact that the Chinese currency is under pressure from the United States, Europe and

developed countries in Asia over its value relative to other currencies. The pressure on

the Chinese Government is that the Yuan must float; its value must be determined by the

market and therefore; there is a big difference Madam Speaker between an agreement

that says you owe us 150 million Yuan, or we agree today that we enter into a loan

agreement of P104 million having agreed on some fixed exchange rate. I think it is

important for us as Members of Parliament to understand exactly what we are entering
into in terms of the amounts.

MINISTER        OF     FINANCE         AND      DEVELOPMENT             PLANNING         (MR

GAOLATHE): On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. I did explain that, I do not

know whether the Honourable Member was there or not, but certainly other members can

bear me up that I did. I did confirm that we are borrowing in Chinese currency and we

will be repaying in Chinese currency. I went further to say that when you borrow money

in different currencies the exchange risk is always going to be there. You use your best

judgement regarding what the likely movements of currencies are going to be. In relation

to China I did point out that China is basically a developing country and as such it will be

appreciated that it has been trying to resist the idea of allowing its currency to appreciate.

Indeed when some people were applying pressure and it had to deal with the hitting of the

economy rather than interfere with the exchange rate; it has tended to deal with the

problem via interest rates, interest rates which have been agreed upon are fixed but they

are on the Yuan. So our judgement was that it is unlikely that China with a growing

economy, which is growing partly because of competitiveness arising from a currency

that is not over-valued, is unlikely that it will agree in the coming foreseeable future to

allow the currency to go. But I did confirm, as Honourable Member knows, you can

never be sure. So it is on that basis. Thank you.

MR SEBETELA: Thank you very much Minister. In fact the reason I wanted you to

speak to this issue is that, if for some reason the exchange rate must be unfavourable to us

no Member in this House must say, but we only approved P104 million. These things can

happen and as Members of Parliament we need to appreciate that if the loan amount is in

some foreign currency the figure that you have here in Pula represents the value of the
150 million on the day of the conversion. Therefore, if a year or two from today you

come to this House and you indicate that kana jaanong it is a P150 million no one who

was in the House or no one who participated in these debates must ask what happened

now, what have you been doing with the rest of the money. I think this is the significance

of the issue Madam Speaker.

You know Madam Speaker; I think that in this cooperation between the Chinese and us

…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …inaudible…

MR SEBETELA: The Speaker knows everything. Of course she must especially that she

is Botswana Democratic Party Member. You know if there is something we can learn

from the Chinese in our dealings with them especially on the two loans that we have

discussed in this House is that, they understand that there is nothing wrong with doing

something special for your citizens. This is a great learning. This is something that I hope

the Ministry leading in Botswana in the area of citizen economic empowerment which is

the same Ministry of Finance can learn from the Chinese that when resources are yours,

when you are in charge there is nothing wrong with making rules that favour your people.

If there is one thing we can learn from the agreement that we are ratifying is the fact that

when you are in charge, when the resources are yours you can make literally any rules

Madam Speaker and they will fly. For example, they have decided that the first five years

ga le duele sepe. It is their money, and they have also determined that even though the

prime rate in China may be bo five, corporate rates ya nna bo bo kae rona the Chinese,

owners of this money we are giving it to you at three per cent. And in the same way

Madam Speaker, they determined that Botswana we will give you this money with these
soft terms but you will engage Chinese companies. Madam Speaker, I wish we could

borrow this boldness of helping citizens from the Chinese. I wish in other projects where

we are in complete control, where the money yours (to use the language of the Minister‟s

Ministry, Domestic Development Funds (DDF), I wish we could be as bold as the

Chinese because in this era of unprecedented competition and complexity local

companies, citizen owned companies need their political leadership to help them.

We know that, anybody who has done any work with the likes of America, Japan, Asia

and Europe will know that they guard their industrial and commercial turfs jealously and

I hope a number of you are following the airbus bowing tassel between the United States

and Europe. It is a most interesting business tug-of-war where one day the Americans

give their huge aircraft manufacturer a billion dollars, the following day European Union

gives theirs equivalent because none of the two want either of them to become a

monopoly in the area of large aircraft manufacturing. And they do so ba ntse ba itse gore

gona le World Trade Organisation (WTO). Madam Speaker, the reason I am raising this

point is that recently I read in one of the local papers that a certain Nico Chipionga (I

know he is linked to the Business and Economic Advisory Council) I think at a BOCCIM

event this gentleman said that citizen preferential schemes are bad for competition. I wish

he could say that to South African government and American government. Some of you

will know gore twelve months ago when the American economy was under pressure

from the European Union with respect to steel trade, George Bush one morning issued an

executive order, and the effect of the order was to make steel coming from outside the

United States 20 per cent more expensive. Now we want to be more capitalist than the

inventors of capitalism. We want to be perfect users of the market better than those who
invented these principles. I think the Chinese here Madam Speaker, are giving us a lesson

and the lesson is that there is hardly any agreement without serious micro-economic

consequences. And here they are demonstrating that this loan is going to be paid fully by

the Republic of Botswana. I agree and I am supportive of the fact that a good 33 per cent

of this thing is a grant, but the other 66 per cent we will pay back. And as we pay back

the Chinese government, a huge economy is not shy to say to a much, much smaller

country, by the way we are helping you but as we help you, you must also help us. They

are bold in this matter and I wish the Minister presenting this bill who is also the Minister

for citizen economic empowerment can borrow this boldness of the Chinese authorities

and make sure that citizens of this country where Botswana Government resources are

involved we simply dictate that apart from a joint venture, there will be no award to a

foreign owned firm because this is the kind of boldness we should demonstrate. We

should be saying apart from a joint venture there will be no award to foreign companies

because that is the only way Madam Speaker we will make sure that this money is used

effectively. I want to go further Madam Speaker on using this money effectively that the

Minister when we spoke about Botswana Housing Corporation, he assured us that sub-

contracting would benefit Batswana. I hope that in the next agreement we enter into with

any Chinese Company, this will become part of the agreement that yes, the main

contractor will be Chinese but the entire sub-contracting will be to citizen owned or

citizen controlled companies. And if there should be any deviation it must be with the

permission of the Minister of Finance and Development Planning because this is the only

way we are going to make sure that huge projects like this one, P104 million benefits

Batswana especially private sector Batswana.
Madam Speaker, 40 years after independence we ought to have Batswana running large-

scale companies. The majority of Batswana businesses today are still small. Even in the

medium category Madam Speaker, we are struggling as Batswana to enter those and

surely 40 years after independence we ought to have a few Batswana running big

companies. Today I was at Botswana Insurance Company and I looked at their letterhead.

If your insurer is Botswana Insurance Company you must look at the letterhead at the

bottom and see who is running Botswana Insurance Company, Zimbabweans! The

chairman is Zimbabwean and the majority of those directors are Zimbabweans, and there

is nothing wrong with that.

The only problem is that in this country we cannot possibly imagine that happening or if

it did happen, we would have reasons why it cannot win big government tenders. There

would have to be something wrong like maybe one of them is a crook or a thief,

therefore, let us find a way of taking this thing somewhere else. But Botswana Insurance

Company if you have not looked at their letterhead, look at it, hundred per cent

Zimbabwean directors. Le gone ga ke reye Zimbabwean white, ke raya bo Chirokombo

and other names. Other names that suggest these are real Zimbs from the middle of

nowhere in Zimbabwe. And this is what we want in this country. We want to see a

letterhead of NDB after it is privatised e le bo poverty, jalo-jalo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Bo Dada.

MR SEBETELA: No, ba bangwe, he is in other themes. But really Madam Speaker, we

cannot over emphasise that we are 40 years old as a Republic and it is time that we take

some very bold moves towards giving Batswana a share of this country‟s economy. The

time in my view is now. We are not too late; we still have a good economy so we have
not lost much. All we need to do is for us to amass our political will and commitment to

do what we have not been able to do in the last 40 years. We have not lost much, because

the economy is still fairly good. There are problems but you cannot compare them with

problems of other countries. We are still running a robust economy that can take a lot of

shocks. And we must take advantage of this robust economy to put wealth in the hands of

Batswana.

Another point I want to talk about Madam Speaker is workmanship. I am still to see a

road that is properly done in this country. I want to repeat this so that if anybody in this

House has a problem with this statement, they should tell me to sit down and tell me

where they have seen a proper road. I have not seen in this country a road that I can look

at and say, my! my! What a great road! You know why Madam Speaker I can say so,

because I have travelled extensively and I have seen good roads. In fact I do not have to

go far, go to Zimbabwe and see some good roads, which are now about thirty years old.

In the Republic of South Africa, roads that were constructed Mandela a tsena mo

toronkong, those roads have stood the test of time, they are still there and usable.

Madam Speaker, go to Tswapong North and South and look at what is called access

roads, that is wasting government resources in a big way. Roads finished two or four

years ago today, the so-called access roads in a lot of areas are peeling off, bleeding is

better. Bleeding is better because you assume the substructure was done properly. But

when they are peeling off, when you can see potholes in a road ya three to four years,

where are we going? It means instead of building new roads we are going to be going

back to that road go ya go e baakanya. Madam Speaker, this is our money, we are going

to pay for it and we need to get the value for money. The reason I tell you I have never
seen a properly constructed road in this Republic is because I have not seen one.

Culverts, the small…

MR MOATLHODI: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. Much as I agree with

my brother the …

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)…

MR MOATLHODI: Ke tloga ke go bolelela gore le ne le dirang kwa Lobatse. Ke bua le

Sebetela ga ke bue le wena. The Airport-Rasesa road, …..

HONOURABLE MEMBER: E bidiwa bulela ditswe.

MR MOATLHODI: It is popularly known as bulela ditswe because it started being used

during the time when BDP bulela ditswe lenaneo was starting. What I want to ask you ke

gore, what does the Honourable Member think of that road? Does the Honourable

Member think the road is properly done? Do you think it is a bad idea just to commend

the people who constructed that road, rather than to say you have never seen a road,

which is properly done in this country?

MR SEBETELA: I am very serious; I have not seen, for example, the road that you are

talking about, the dual road, look at the storm water drainage system. Have you ever seen

water going up? But it always goes down. But in all our roads including the one you are

talking about, when you get to that area one of these days, park your car and go down and

see what happens when it rains. The water only flows …

MR MABILETSA: On a point of elucidation Madam Speaker. Ke ne ke re, ke thuse

Motlotlegi gore, ga ke itse gore a o sa ntse a gakologelwa tsela ya Jwaneng/Sekoma ya

Trans -Kalahari road, e e rileng e ise e fetse ngwaga, potholes tsa teng, e ne e le gore fa o

tsamaya mo go tsone, mme e le sekonotere, o tsamaya ka speed sa 40, o ne o thuba tyre
ya koloi. A fa o re ga o ise o bone ditsela tse di siameng, a o raya tse di tshwanang le

yone eo, tse o reng go senngwa madi mo go tsone?

MR SEBETELA: Madam Speaker, we are spending money in this country mo ditseleng.

The fact of the matter is that the workmanship leaves a lot to be desired. And of course,

Jwaneng/Sekoma is a classic example of how millions are put in and the following day,

with that one a ke re, we even changed routes. I suppose the engineers determined that

the old road could not be rescued so we changed routes. The point I am making Madam

Speaker is that, we are approving the use of money here and it will be amiss of us not to

talk about what this money is going to do. I hope this money is going to give us a road

with a long lifespan. And the reason is simple Madam Speaker, the reason we must have

a road with a long lifespan is that there are a lot more areas without roads in this country.

We cannot continue doing a 100 kilometres; three years later we spent P20 million

maintaining the road. Remissful

MR RAKHUDU: On a point of elucidation Madam Speaker. Thank you very much for

acceding to my request Honourable Sebetela. Madam Speaker, when Honourable

Sebetela was in the process of elucidating a point or answering a question that came from

Honourable Moatlhodi, Honourable Mabiletsa derailed him a little. I think it is important

to note that this dual carriage-way that we have extending from Gaborone to Rasesa has

incredible storm water drainage problems. I do not know whether the drainage pots are

too small or whatever our engineering dilemma has occurred. But it has problems

draining storm water, gone gompieno jaana.

MR SEBETELA: I am going to get back to that point of culverts because that is the

worst part of all on our roads. But the point I want to emphasise is that we are approving
P104 million as Members of Parliament that is all we can do. It is like a budget, we only

approve funds but as to the design, the construction and everything, somebody else does

it. It is about time this House with one voice condemns the quality of workmanship of

roads in this Republic, including buildings Madam Speaker. We should speak with one

voice on this thing so that those who are sleeping on their jobs can wake up, because this

House is quite honestly getting fed up with releasing money for the same roads year in

year out.

Madam Speaker, I keep on talking in this House about the West and North West. When I

was a Minister, one of the things I did, I travelled this country extensively and I was

emotionally moved when I visited western Botswana. I had no idea what western

Botswana was like in terms of social amenities and physical infrastructure. That there are

areas where you cannot get RB1 was news to me, I did not know that. That there is no

phone, no proper road dictates of us Madam Speaker that every coin we get we use

effectively so that we reduce repeat work and roll out infrastructure to other areas. Kana

it is the same reason that in this House ….

MINISTER        OF    FINANCE        AND      DEVELOPMENT           PLANNING         (MR

GAOLATHE): On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. I just want to warn that it is

very dangerous to mislead members of the public to think that there are no good roads in

Botswana at all. There have been people from other developing countries, some of them I

have taken around to places like Jwaneng and Francistown who have wondered what we

are talking about when we say Botswana is a developing country. So, with that we have a

tendency sometimes as Batswana to over condemn ourselves. This does not mean that the

points the Honourable Member is raising are not valid. The thing is that roads are
designed for a specific lifespan. Taking into account the expected traffic and resources,

by the way. That is why we have for instance these rural roads, which were very narrow

like from Molepolole to Letlhakeng and Tutume. It was a question of affordability,

knowing that when we upgrade the road, it will be a better road. So I think we must not

forget those aspects. There are simply very good roads in Botswana here by international

standards. I do not want to enumerate them, but indeed there are a number of them, which

I agree are bad.

MR SEBETELA: Madam Speaker, our roads are only good when there is no rain. Who

lives in Gaborone who does not know that a few drops of rain in Gabs, traffic stops. And

you know Madam Speaker, I think it is about time we accept that there is poor

workmanship. It is not by the Minister or by myself. But here in Gaborone, the Western

Bypass, you know that road from Cash Bazaar Holdings all the way up to the Game City

round about, a few drops of rain, unless you have a 4 x 4 which is diesel in Gaborone

because if you have petrol and you have plugs, you get stuck.

Madam Speaker, it is not the Minister or us here, all I am saying is that those we ask to

construct these roads for some reason are not giving us what we want.

MR MOATLHODI: On a point of clarification. If the Honourable Member says it is not

by the Minister, don‟t you think you are making him or her abdicate from accountability,

because he is the man at the head?

MR SEBETELA: Madam Speaker, my point regardless of who must take responsibility

is that I am still to come across a road in this Republic, a good road where storm water

drainage is good. You know Madam Speaker I come from Palapye, as you know and

before the 2004 general election I was a Member of Parliament for Radisele as well.
When Mahalapye/Palapye was done, give me time, let me explain to you what I said to

the engineers. You know you have the railway line running parallel to the road, so when

the Mahalapye/Palapye road was done it was elevated for obvious reasons of drainage. Of

course everybody knows that when you elevate or tar, water collection becomes much

better therefore the water moving in the direction of the railway line, the bridges or the

culverts on the road side must match the culverts on the railway line. I spent hundreds of

pula calling the department of roads about the mismatch and what is going to happen.

Madam Venson is a Member of Parliament for Radisele and when it rains heavily in that

village Madam Speaker because of the mismatch in the capacity of the culverts, Radisele

becomes a little dam. So, yes, Madam Speaker when it is dry you think we have good

roads, a few drops you soon learn that we do not have good roads. This is the point I am

making, that let us construct roads that reflect effectiveness and also do something for the

long term because we have no money for rework. We have no money to revisit work that

was done last year. The little money we have is for other roads that we have not covered.

But you know Mahalapye/Palapye is not the only road, even the new road that

Honourable Moatlhodi was taking about, bulela ditswe, great drive there especially if you

drive a car with a bit of speed, a bit of power. It is a great road for old cars like bo 420 SE

ga o e tshwere gone foo, aha, it is a great road but not when it is raining. When it rains,

the drainage is a disaster on that road. And it can be a great cause ya accidents.

So, I hope for this particular road Madam Speaker we will make sure that where we have

made mistakes in the past, we can correct. It is extremely important. We are authorizing

money here and it is important for us to say what we demand of this money, quality

roads. I believe when you say that you are in full compliant with Standing Orders of this
House because Parliament cannot just give money. Our experience is that money has

been authorized here; roads have not been properly done. It is important that we

emphasize this point that it is properly done, especially by citizens. You know Madam

Speaker it is okay for me and others to be talking about giving citizens work, but some of

these culverts that I am talking about were done by citizens, were subcontracted to

citizens especially the culverts that go into farms or grazing areas, quite a number of

those were given to citizens to do and they did a shoddy job. So even when it comes to

citizens Madam Speaker, we must be strict as to their capacity because otherwise citizen

economic empowerment will become a source of great concern for citizens. It will

deplete resources. So even though Madam Speaker we must talk citizen economic

empowerment as I do, that is the reason we are debating a motion here that let us know

what citizen companies are about. We must work at building the capacity not to give

them a culvert that assumes water goes up in fact Martins Drift/Palapye that is another

road where I did a lot of work. Madam Speaker ga ke re gatwe, I am talking to you about

roads where I engaged engineers and asked them. If anyone of you ever drives on the

Martins Drift/Palapye, check the culverts in terms of the way they are elevated, di ntse

jaana Madam Speaker. Ke gore where has anybody seen water going up? And of course

what happens Madam Speaker is that during heavy rains the water does not flow until the

culverts are full and guess where the water goes when the culverts are now full? They do

not take the direction intended, the water just spills all over the road and of course that

becomes a problem. I am the first one to concede Madam Speaker that in some of these

cases Batswana contractors were involved. We need to be strict on standards otherwise

money will go out in exchange for nothing and when that happens inflation will hit the
sky and no one will want to come and invest here. But most importantly, we need to roll

out physical infrastructure. We cannot do so Madam Speaker if we are not using the little

money we have properly. MR MOATLHODI: On a point of clarification Madam

Speaker. Kana Madam Speaker ke tshwenngwa ke gore the worthy submission that the

Honourable Member for Palapye is submitting he has just abdicated the Honourable

Minister from the accountability but ke batla go itse gore now which cat should be belted

to this responsibility? Ke gone fela fa ke batlang go itse gore re tle re kaye mang ka gore

ke dumalana nao re reye mang re re boikarabelo jo o ntshitse Tona wa re ga se tiro ya

ga Tona, re lelele mang?

MR SEBETELA: Madam Speaker, I think that we know how government works and

quite honestly I do not think it is my job to be saying who is to blame. I am stating what

my observation is in terms of quality of roads. I am not even talking about this from a

distance. Madam Speaker. Palapye/Martins Drift I engaged engineers and in fact ya

Palapye/Martins Drift I remember even His Excellency (HE) ke mo bolelela ka yone ga a

ile go e bula gore I wish you could drive along this road and see how culverts have been

constructed mme gotwe ke storm water drainage. Ke gore in terms of the topology of the

area you would expect to follow contours that suggests water will go that way or that

way. But the topology Madam Speaker is such that it is like we are building a well under

the road. We are collecting water, dug a hole under the road and one day we will take that

water out. If you move around most of our roads Madam Speaker, they are like that and

of course Madam Speaker they do not help the life span of the road, everybody knows

how strong water is. Water is a great eater of anything. If you spend a little bit of time o

itaya le teemane ka metsi for a good amount of time even not so much pressure in a few
days there will be marks because water is just a great eater, a great eroder of anything.

So my point Madam Speaker is that, I fully support the Minister to get this money but

because I do not know who is going to be constructing the road from experience

elsewhere, I am asking of the Minister to make sure that it is value for money. Because

Madam Speaker especially in those areas tsa extreme temperatures I hope ga e na gore

the first winter or the first summer, e bo e le gore we have tar flowing all over the place.

Kana Madam Speaker Honourable Kedikilwe will know that Dikabeya/Kgagodi we spent

a lot of money on that road and hardly two years you could not drive on that road ka kara

and the contractor was gone. And of course I was a Member of Parliament for part of that

area, together with Rre Kedikilwe we made a lot of noise and what happened? It was

resurfaced, reworked and this is not helping the Republic of Botswana Madam Speaker.

So when we approve money here we must approve money with these qualifications and

comment so that those we send to go and do work understand that so far this House is not

overly impressed with the way roads are being constructed. We need to do things

differently.

Let me finish by saying that the Minister talked about sub-contracting. Madam Speaker,

Citizen Enterpreneurship Development Agency (CEDA) is giving our loans to Batswana

for plant hire, earthmoving equipment, this Republic, millions of money. Earthmoving

plant Madam Speaker has been funded, Batswana as I speak at least in my constituency

Mahalapye/Palapye dikatakata, ditipara, diloudara and graders di mo malwapeng.

Instead, those who are benefiting from these projects are mainly South African

companies. In fact I can say in the Dibete/Mahalapye the only good looking ones belong

to a citizen and probably the only citizen who is involved in that, ke ene wa dikoloinyana
tse di botoka the rest Madam Speaker, are very old trucks yet financed by CEDA di

phekile mo malwapeng.

I hope Madam Speaker with Dutlwe/Morwamosu we will make special efforts for

earthmoving equipment to come from Batswana. Kana each one of these big projects we

could use them to establish plant hire business for Batswana. Madam Speaker for this

road, we know exactly how many loads of stones, gravel, loads of this and this and that.

We know exactly how many hours of a grader and loader; all this information is part of

the quantification of…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: How many liters of water.

MR SEBETELA: Ya, we know how many liters of water we are going to use. So we

could literally decide that Batswana ba le five yo mongwe o ya go nna wa diteraka, yo

mongwe wa diloudara, graidara, yo mongwe o ya go nna wa water bowsers. We could do

that Madam Speaker, and give them CEDA money because we know by the end of the

project the CEDA loan will have been paid. Maybe Madam Speaker for this project it is a

little late but we are saying these things Madam Speaker so that for future projects we can

do things differently. Mme le bone Batswana, Madam Speaker, we should not spare them

because we will not be helping them, gore le bone as we speak for them asking

government to give them favourable terms to give them jobs, they must also not let this

Republic down. The fact of the matter Madam Speaker is that citizens in a few cases have

been helped and they have been a great deal let down. In fact mo local government

Madam Speaker, in the construction of primary schools and teachers quarters they have

been a total disaster. The reason they were total disaster Madam Speaker, you must also

understand gore there is an element of corruption in there.
How do we explain the mushrooming of contractors? I sometimes think we were being

told monna start ke tla go neela tiro, re tlaa go abelana (share) golo gongwe. So one of

the reasons we have had these problems ke gone gore Batswana themselves have not

really been as good in doing their work when they are given as they should have been.

And what happened in Local Government is something that we can stop and that is part

of the motion, that let us know the capacity of our citizens and give them work knowing

what they can do. And Madam Speaker, with these remarks I fully support the Minister

and hope that we can move forward with this project and at the end of the project we can

say what a great road that will last many years with proper storm water drainage. And we

can also say out of this project we have two Batswana in earth moving equipment plant

hire who have finished their CEDA loans. I thank you.

MR KEDIKILWE (MMADINARE): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. A pele ke leboge botlhe ba ba tla bong ba dirile tiro e gore gompieno re bo re

tla a nna le sengwe se se amanang le ditlhabololo segolobogolo kwa bontlheng jo le ja

lefatshe la rona, jo dilo tse di tshwanang le tsone tse di neng di ntse di le teng mme di le

boutsana. Ke selo se se molemo thata mme re ba re leboga le bone ba re dirisanyang nabo

ba tshwana bone MaChina gore ba bo ba dira jaaka ka fa ba dirang ka teng. Tota mafoko

a builwe go tla bo go sa thuse sepe go a touta.

Fela kgang e ke batlang go feta ka yone ke e e amang se gotweng ba bo ba ntse ba na le

sengwe se ba reng mme le dire jaana, se se bidiwang ka tshomi gotwe strings attached.

Nna ke a gakgamala gore ke eng selo se e tshwanetse gore e nne kgang. Mo go nna ga se

kgang, ke dilo tse re tswang natso kgakala re ntse re itse gore di ntse jalo. Gangwe le

gape ke ntse ke fa dikai gone fa gore e rile nako ya fa re le mo mathateng a dintwa, le fa
Rre Sebetela ga ntsi a re dilo tse a ba a bua gore go na le archives. Mme e bile ke belaela

gore go a bo go na le an element of derision mo teng, mme ga e tlhokagale. Go

botlhokwa thata gore archives tse re nne re itse gore go simologile jang.

Airport yone e ya Gaborone ka e ne e seyo, re tshwanetse gore re dire at least runway ka

re ne re le mo mathateng a dintwa kwa bokone, bophirima, botlhabatsatsi, borwa le

gongwe le gongwe. Kana batho ga ba gakologelwe dilo tse mme ga bo e le gore re

tshwanetse gore re dire yone runway segolobogolo gore e tle e re fa go ka nna le mathata

a matona a a kalokalo, bogolo re bo re ka kgona gore difofane tse di kgolwane di re

tlisetse tse re di tlhokang di tla di rwele merwalo kwa e tla bong e tswa teng.

Nngwe ya dilo tse di neng di re tshwarisitse bothata, tse di neng tsa diya tiro ke nako ya

gore jaanong difofane di tshwanetse gore fa di fofa jaana go bo go na le ba ba bolelang

gore kwano go maru, kwa go rile, jalojalo. Tse ka Sekgowa di bidiwang the radar system

e e leng yone e tlhomamisang dipuisanyo fa gare ga ba ba fofisang difofane le ba ba fa

fatshe. MaAmerika ba re rona re ka le thusa ka mofuta o o ntseng jaana fa e le gore le ka

e reka kwa go rona. Makgowa (Mangelesemane) le bone ba re re tla le fa ya mofuta o o

ntseng jaana e e itseng dilo tsotlhe e bile e kgona go bua jaaka motho. Mme fa e le gore le

ka tsaya madi mo go rona, ke gore re tla re e reka re ba re tla re le bolelela gore tse

dingwe tse le tshwanetseng gore le di dire tsa dikompone tsa rona e nne eng. Mo go nna

ga se epe kgang e e ka tlholang e tseetswe kgang fa go solofelwa gore go ka nna le

dikadimo tse di ntseng jaana tse di nang le botlhofo ntlha e nngwe mme go se na gore go

bo go na le dinwane tse di buiwang ke ba ba fang madi ao. Tota ga o mo businesseng e re

buang ka ga yone ya gompieno ya the politics of donation le tse di amang eo. Mma ke

fete eo ga se kgang.
Kgang e nngwe e nna ke tla e buang ka Labotlhano ke e e amang citizen economic

empowerment ka gore e ne ya re ka 2001 ka ntsha motion gone fa, o dintlha tsa one ke tla

di buang ka Labotlhano mabapi le citizen economic empowerment. Tota ka fa seemo se

ntseng ka teng le dikeletso tse re di buang gompieno le tse di buiwang ke rotlhe re le

babusi, go fitlhela re ka tsaya dingwe dintlha segolobogolo tse di amanang le gore a re ka

baa molao le an authority e e tla bong e le yone e e tsamaisang e ba e lomaganya

thulaganyo ya citizen economic empowerment, re itaya mpipi, mpipi yo mme ga a na a

tswa lebadi. Ke tla re ka Labotlhano fa ke ka bona sebaka sa go bua ke simolole gone foo.

Tse dingwe tse dintsi tse re di buang tse nnyaa tlhe ke dikeletso, mme fela go fitlhela go

na le yo o tla bong e le ene mokgweetsi wa koloi e ya citizen economic empowerment. E

tla bo e le koloi fela e le foo e le ntle le fa e bidiwa Nxa 5 (X5), kana ya bidiwa eng one

maina a mantlentle a. Kana ya bidiwa Jaguar kana Keaja ga go na le fa e le mosola ope

wa gore e bo e le foo e ntse ntle mme e sena mokgweetsi. Kgang ya me e foo, le ka 2001

kgang ya me e ne e ntse e le foo.

Mme ka ke a bo ke tla bua le sengwe se se amanang le bread and butter politics, re

amogela thulaganyo e and we wish to ratify, kana ke ema mogopolo nokeng wa gore re

dumalane le kadimo e. Mme ditsela batho betsho ke sengwe se se gorosang golo gongwe,

they are a means to an end. Rona dingwe tse di re tshwenyang thata mo ditseleng tsone

tse, ke solofela gore jaaka fa di a bo di agiwa jaana, yone e ya Dutlwe/Morwamosu ga go

ne go nna le mathata a gompieno re a bonang kwa Selebi Phikwe/Sefhophe/Martins Drift.

Ke bua ka batho ba e leng gore nako tse tsotlhe ba mo ditseleng ba letile go pagama

dikoloi ba ya kwa go rona kwa Bobonong kwa Sub-District e leng teng, go raya gore

ditlamelo bontsi ba di bona koo. Ke selo ba tshela nako tsotlhe ba le mo disetopong. Ba
bangwe ba eletsa go ya kwa bo Palapye kwa ditlamelong kwa Sub-District e leng teng.

Ba tswa mo bo Mogapi ba ya gone koo nako tse tsotlhe bosigo le motshegare, pula e na le

e sa ne ba foo ba emetse dikoloi. Ba bangwe ba emetse dikoloi ba tswa go ne mo Phikwe

ka tsholofelo ya gore ba tla bo ba tsamaela go ne mantlheng a borwa ja kgaolo ya

Mmadinare, ba bangwe ba ya gone kwa bo Martins Drift jalojalo.

Sengwe se nna ke neng ke tsaya gore re setse re ka bo re se tlogetse jaanong, ke kgang ya

gore go bo go santse gotwe fa motho a eletsa go bona kolotsana e a tsamayang ka yone

gore a tle a pege batho, go kopiwa ba ba setseng ba bonye diteseletso tsa go tsamaisa

dikoloi gore ba a dumalana kana nnyaa. Re a itse gore ga ba ka ke ba dumalana motlhofo,

fa e le gore ba dumalana ka gore kgang e re kile ra bo re ntse re e tsere ka mabenkele le

tse dingwe mme ra e tlogela ra re ga e na mosola ka gore, ga e ka ke ba ba setseng ba

imona ka tsela nngwe ba dumalana gore ba bangwe le bone ba tsene foo ba tle ba ba pate

mpa. Kgang e ke e buisiwa ke gore batho matshelo a bone a mo mathateng, principle e ke

e drawang (draw) from the roads infrastructural development. Fa ba le foo bosigo le

motshegare go raya gore magodu le bone gone mo di-junctioneng tse ka e bile dikgakala

le motse, tota ka motse le one o godile, fa go setse go le lefifi ga go na gore ba ka

ipabalela ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

MR MOATLHODI: Ke kopa tlhaloso. Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo,

e bile ke lebogela thata Mopalamente wa Mmadinare Rraetsho P. H. K. Kedikilwe. Ke

kopa go utlwisisa ntlha e sentle e gore a Motlotlegi Rraetsho Kedikilwe a re, fa ke eletsa

go tsamaisa khombinyana fa gare ga Mmadinare le Selebi Phikwe, ke tshwanetse ka ya

go kopa tetla mo go ba ba teng foo ba ba ntseng ba tsamaisa? Fa e le gore go ntse jalo a

Tona o lemoga bodiphatsa ja selo se, ka gore nna ka kitso ya me ke ne
ke…interruption…Tona yo o amegang wa dipalamo, ba ba se keng ba nna mo

Palamente. Yo mongwe ke gone a reng tshetshe re sa bolo go bua ka ditsela. Fa e le gore

Tona o lemoga selo se a o itse bodiphatsa ja sone?

MR KEDIKILWE: Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, kana kwa ntle ga tse motho

o di bonang ka matlho gore di a diragala, batho le bone ba bua. Ba bua le rona nako le

nako, ba re tlhaeletsa nako le nako, bangwe megala ya rona ga e fitlhiwe, kwa dikgotleng

o nna o re, le se ka la lebala mogala wa me wa cell kana ke nomoro e gore e tle e re fa le

na le mathata kana dikgakololo le nne le ntlhaeletsa.

Ke bua le lona gompieno jaana ke fa e le sekai se re se ntshang mo the principles tse re

buang ka tsone mabapi le jaaka fa re dira ditsela jaana ka tsholofelo ya gore di tle di nne

di tokafatse matshelo a batho. Gone mo tseleng ya Selebi Phikwe/Sefhope/Bobonong,

Selebi Phikwe/Sefhophe go ya kwa bo Kgagodi, bangwe ba ba ikopetseng gore ba tsenye

dikoloi mo tseleng ba pegile batho, ba ganelwa ka diteseletso tse gatwe go tletse. Mme e

re gotwe go tletse jaana mo go tsone ditsela tse, ka re batho bosigo le motshegare, fa

gongwe le bosigogare, makuku a naka tsa kgomo batho ba foo ba letile dikoloi gore di ba

ise kwa ba tla bong ba eletsa go ya teng. Fa go botswa gore tota gatwe ke eng dikoloi tse

di sa bonale gatwe, tsone tse pedi tse di teng di santse di eme kwa Phikwe di letile gore di

tlale pele. Mo go raya gore nako tse tsotlhe ga ba na thuso ya gore dikoloi di bonale.

Mme potso e le gore fa gatwe tsela e tletse dikoloi, e tletse jaana ka gore ba ba setseng ba

filwe teseletso ba na le seabe ka fa re utlwang ka teng sa gore ba re, kana fa le ka tsenya

ba bangwe re tla bo re le mo mathateng a gore ga re na re nna le dipoelo.

MR REATILE: On a point of elucidation. Ke leboge Mopalamente rre Kedikilwe. Ke

ne ke re, ke leke go tlhalosa gore go boammaaruri ka fa go ntseng ka teng ka gore ga se
kgang e e leng gore re ka e dira jaaka motlotlegi a tsaya gore o utlwaletse ka magatwe. Fa

ba diteseletso ba di ikopetse kana permit ba di ikopela jaana, e ke tla bayang sekai ka

yone ke ya Lobatse. Borradikgwebo bone ba ba setseng ba le mo business ba nna teng ba

tlile ka diagente tsa bone. O tla o le Motlotlegi Rre Kedikilwe o kopa permit ba go

bolelela gore, "no, o raa gore ke ye go tsamaya kwa legodimong, ke gone fela fa ke

lebileng teng kana jaanong ke duela dikoloto". Ke gone ka fa system ya ba Works and

Transport e ntseng ka teng mo letsatsing la gompieno.

MR KEDIKILWE: Ke a leboga mokaulengwe, ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Kgang e ga e a siama ka gore re le lefatshe la Botswana mo mhemeng e

mengwe ya ditsamaiso le itsholelo jaaka fa ke tlhalositse ka bo mabenkele jaana gore,

pele e ne e re motho a batla benkele kana a batla kgwebo e fe fela, go bo go botswa ba ba

setseng ba gweba gore la reng. Ba bo ba re, motho yo o tla tla a re pata mpa re bo re re

nnyaa, ka nako eo o bolelela ruri o tla pata ba bangwe mpa. Mme e rile morago ra tlhalefa

ra re, kana le segarona sa re disela mmapa ga di ratane. Jaanong a e nne bulela ditswe

batho ba gwebe fela ka fa ba bonang ka teng jaaka pele go ne gotwe mabenkele a

tswalwa ka nako ya 5:00, ya re morago ra bo re re mme ke eng go sa ka ke ga letlelelwa

mongwe le mongwe a bula ka fa a tla bong a rata ka teng.

Ke lebogela gore nngwe ya ditshwetso tse di tserwe ke eteletse lone lephata leo, ke

sengwe sa se letsatsi leno ke ipelafatsang ka sone. Ke sa re se se neng se dirwa kwa

morago se ne se le maswe-maswe, ka re mme re ntse re a hatlhoga ra bona gore mongwe

le mongwe fa a rekisa ka fa a tla bong a bona ka teng, a tswala a bo a bula ka nako e a

bonang e mo tshwanetse re hatlhogile sentle. Re tlhalegile re bonye sengwe se ke tsayang

gore se tokafatsa kgwebo le lefatshe. Mme ka re le mo kgwebong ya dikoloi a re hatlhoge
re direng tsela nngwe e e botoka segolobogolo e e tla dirang gore batho ba se ka ba

sokola ba sokodisiwa ke gore…

MR KWELAGOBE: On a point of elucidation. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente,

go na le policy e goromente a neng a e tsaya kana a e dira, ga ke itse gore ke nako e nne

Honourable Kedikilwe a le ko Ministry o fe, e e leng gore re ne re tswa mo the system ya

gore batho ba ne ba na le gore e re fa go ikopelwa business licenses e bo e le gore ba a

ngongorega. Jaanong goromente opened up gore ga go sa tlhole go tlaa letlelelwa gore

batho ba bangwe ba ngongorega, Batswana ba tshwanetse ba gaisanye. Fa e le gore

mongwe o dira bad judgement ya gore e re a fitlhela sekgotlho sa dikgwebo se le foo a bo

a tsena foo it is his business judgement. E ne e tlogeletswe Batswana, jaanong bo „a rialo‟

ba ba ntseng ba bua fa, se ke ne ke batla go re ke se elucideite ke bo ke se tlhaloganye mo

go mokaulengwe ke gore a business tse go ne go buiwa ka tsone go tewa business tsa

mabenkele fela, jaanong business tsa dikhombi le the buses tsone ga se dikgwebo. E le

gore ke botsa gore mokaulengwe a netefatse gore there has been a departure ya ga

goromente from se se kileng sa dumalanwa. Mme fa e le gore go ntse jalo, fa a ka

netefatsa ke kope gore Tona a eme a re tlhalosetse gore ga nna ga theogwa fa kae.

MR KEDIKILWE: Ke a leboga, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Tota kgang e

ga re a tshwanela go e lelefatsa. Ke dumela gore nako e o ka nna ke ne ke le ko

mabenkeleng ke ne ke bua ka mabenkele. Ga ke sa tlhola ke gakologelwa sentle-ntle gore

a dikoloi di ne di tsentswe mo teng, mme di tshwanetse di bo di ne di sa tsenngwa mo

teng ka gore ke fano go sa ntse go na le gore gotwe go tletse, ba bangwe ba re go tletse,

ba letlelelwa gore ba ba setseng ba le foo ba bo ba re go tletse. Mme e le gore kgang ya

me e tona ke gore batho ba mo bothateng ka ntata ya yone tsamaiso e e ntseng jaana.
Gore le fa go ka bo go na le mabaka mangwe a gongwe Tona a ka a re tlhalosetsang a a

dirang gore mo dikoloing go seka gatwe nnyaa a yo o tlaa bong a bona a ka ntsha sengwe

mo teng a tsene.

Fa e le gore mo dikoloing go na le sekgoreletsi sengwe re se bolelele, mme go bo go

batlwe tsela ya go re e re go dirwa jalo a mme batho bone ba seka ba tsena mo

dipharagobeng tsa gore ga ba goroge sentle ko ditirong, ba tlhola foo fa gongwe ba

tshwerwe le ke yone tlala, ba bolawa ke letsatsi, ba le mo puleng ba letile dicombi tse di

sa bonaleng. Gongwe le gongwe fela ba le mo seemong se se sa siamang, mme segolo

bogolo malatsi a no ba le mo mathateng a gore ba ka nna ba tlhaselwa ke dirukutlhi nako

nngwe le nngwe. Fa e le gore o a tlhalosa go tlaa bua ene Tona. Kgang e tota e ke sa

tshwanelang go e lelefatsa ke yone eo ya gore gompieno jaana ke ne ke kopa gore ko

kgaolong yame, ke tsaya gore mo dikgaolong tse dingwe ko go ka bong go ntse jalo, a

batho ba ntshiwe mo mathateng a gore tiro ya bone e tona jaanong e bo e le go tlhola mo

maemelong a dikoloi, mo maemelong a di-bus le dicombi ba letile dicombi tse di sa

bonaleng. Gape go na le batho ba go tweng gatwe ba filwe diteseletso mme ka bo

Matlhatso dikoloi tsa bone ga di tsamae, a selo se se tsenngwe leitlho. Ke gone gongwe fa

e ne e le gore batho ba bangwe le bone ba letlelelwa go ka tsena mo ditseleng, kana go ka

bo go sena mathata a gore a mang ga a bereke ka Matlhatso a mang ga a bereke ka

Labotlhano, ba bangwe ba ne ba tla bona phatlha ya go tsena foo.

MR SEBETELA: Ke kopa tlhaloso. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, nna ke ne

ke re, Mopalamente yo o tlotlegang a leke go ntlhalosetsa gore, ke gore mabenkele le

transport sector, ke gore investment ka fa go tlhokagalang ka teng jaaka mo disectareng

tse di tshwanang bo telecommunications re itse gore, nnyaa, ga re kake ra re mongwe le
mongwe a tsene fela ka gore ditlamorago tsa teng e ka nna gore gongwe go ka phutlhama

re bo re felela re sena sepe.

Tota gore go bo go sa ntse go ntse jaana mo transport sector, ga se one mathata a kgang

ya gore kana mo transport sector unlike mo retail, start-up costs le gore jaanong o kgone

go e dibela yone kgwebo yone e go bokete go feta mo go e nngwe e. Mme e bile fa re ka

seka ra somarela the viability ja mesepele ya ditsamao mo ruting nngwe, e ka re la bofelo

e bo e le gore jaanong botlhe ba ole, re bo re fitlhela go sena tsone dipalamo. Mathata ga

a gone fa, fa re bua ka transport sector gore ga e tshwane le retail.

MR KEDIKILWE: Golo foo, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke go arabile. Ke

rile fa e le gore go na le mathata mangwe a gore go ka twe a mongwe le mongwe a tsene

foo, ke belaela gore one a ka nna teng. Ke rile a mme go dirwe ka tsela e e leng gore

batho ga e ne e nna bone jaanong ba utlwang botlhoko go tlhola ba letile dikoloi tse di sa

bonaleng ka ntata ya gore, go sirelediwa gore fa nne mongwe le mongwe a ka tsena mo

tsamaisong yone ya go pega batho, ba ne ba tlaa tloga ba wa botlhe, kgabagare bone

batho ba bo ba sena se ba se pagamang.

Kgang ya me e fa, gore a go tsewe dikgato tse di tlhamaletseng gore batho ba seka ba

utlwisiwa botlhoko gotwe go sirelediwa gore ba ka tla ba wa botlhe e bo jaanong sengwe

le sengwe se phutlhama. A kgang e e emelwe ka dinao. Nna ke boletse gore kana ga ke

kake ka bua ke sa ete ke tsenya bread and butter politics. Re mo mathateng a batho ba ba

nnang mo disetopong ba bangwe go na le gore ba ka nna ba phamolelwa dibeke, ba dirwa

eng fela ka ntata ya borukutlhi jo bo kana-kana, ka gore dicombi kana dikoloi ga di

bonale. Ke tsaya gore kgang ya 16 seaters ka gore o ka re ke a di bona ko kgaolong

yame, ke lebogela gore fa go kgonegang teng go nne go lejwe seemo ka gore go a bo
gotwe go sirelediwa seemo sa batho ka gore 16 seaters kana tsone tsa palo eo ga di a

siama di na le dikotsi tse dintsi. Mme ko mafelong a mangwe di ne di tshwanetse gore di

letlelesege, batho ba Modimo, ka gore e seng jalo ga gona sepe gape se batho ba se

pagamang ba tsena mo mathateng a a gakgamatsang. Ke tsaya gore kgang e ke e buile.

Ntlha e nngwe e ke batlang go tsena mo go yone, e mme tota bakaulengwe ba setse ba

fetile ka yone ke ya road maintenance. Ke kgang e e botlhoko. Fa e le gore re palelwa ke

go sireletsa ditsela kana go dira ditsela tse e leng gore di ka tsaya gongwe lebakanyana le

le leele, ke tlhaloganya Tona gore fa madi a seo o ka ipotsa gore a o dira tsela e e thata,

kana o dira e e leng gore o solofela fela gore e tlaa bo e ka go tsaya dingwaga di le kana

botshelo ja yone bo bo bo fela. Gape le gore a mme re ditetekanya le lefatshe le lotlhe

kana re dira tseo fela mo mafelong a re tlaa bo re bone gore a fa re lebile lefatshe le,

strategy sa gore ditsela di ka tsamaya jang re baya fela mo go tsone tse mme re di

baakanya ka tsela e e tlhamaletseng. Kana e seng jalo kgabagare re tlaa di tetekanya di

tlala lefatshe le di bo di eswa tsotlhe ka nako e le nngwe fela re bo re ema kgabagare re

sena ditsela.

Gompieno jaana ke efa e le sekai, bread and butter politics, tsela ya Sefhophe-Martins

Drift-Selibe Phikwe ke mokana e suleng. Ke a bo ke letse ke tla ka yone maabane, e sule.

Jaanong fa re ka nna ra di tlatsa di nna dintsi mme Setswana sa re „O tshogane ka a di ga

a tlatsa seroto mme di sena morwadi‟. Re tsamaela mo go yone tsela e e ntseng jaana ka

ditsela. Re tshwanetse gore re ipotse re bo re ikarabe gore tota kgabagare re tsile go dira

jang. Ke seemo se e leng gore ka road maintenance re se lemoge re bo re se itse re bone

gore re tlaa dira jang ka sone.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF WORKS AND TRANSPORT (MR RAMSDEN):
Elucidation, Madam Speaker. Betsho, ke ne ke sa ikaelela go akgela mme jaanong ke

tlhalose gore re le ko ministry re tsamaile lefatshe le nna le mme Mma Motsumi, re

tsamaya re leba sone seemo sa ditsela go bona gore ko go sa siamang ke kae ko go

siameng ke kae. One of the typical examples e Rre Kedikilwe gongwe a ka e buang ke

tsela e e yang ko goo Moremi, e o le yone ga se tsela. Ke raya gore apparently some

years back we resolved gore re dire selo gatwe auto seal. Auto seal as far as I am

concerned and as far as what I have observed, does not work mo Botswana ka gore the

temperatures are hot, the heat is quite high. Jaanong fela fa le sena go nna le tshela

sekonotere se tota ga se gatsele jaaka ko mafatsheng a bo Norway ko go tweng se bereka

teng, hence go nna le diphoso tsa gore ditsela di bo di sa laste jaaka Rre Kedikilwe a bua.

But having gone around the country and having observed the situation on the ground, I

think we are now having a clearer picture of what to do next.

MR KEDIKILWE: Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke tsaya gore ntlha ya me ya

bofelo e amana le itshireletso mo tseleng. Gompieno ke leboga ba road safety ka one

malatsi a boikhutso a ga Tautona ba ne ba kampile ko Sefhophe fa junction e e yang ko

Bobonong. Ya re ba nthaya ba re ema ka ema foo ka seka ka etsa bangwe ba go tweng ba

atle ba gane go ema foo. Gape ke ne ka ema foo ka gore ke ne ke kgabile e bile ke

kgabile sedomkraga gongwe mongwe o ne a ka tswa pelo. Mme ra tsaya dikgang ba

mpha dilo tsotlhe, dipampiri tse ba ne ba batla go di mpha le tse dingwe tse ba di fang

batho gore ba itshireletse ka ditsela tsotlhe tse ba ka bonang go tshwanetse gore ba

itshereletse ka tsone. Mme ya re ke fetsa ba sena go nna ba mpolelela mafoko a bone ka

re, batho betsho, ka gore le ba road safety e bile re amogela mafoko a lona le boithaopo

jo le bo dirang, ke tiro e ntle thata ya go sireletsa sechaba, a ko le re thuse gore road
safety e seka ya nna fela ya ditsela dingwe. Rona re mo mathateng a bojang mo thoko ga

tsela, ditlhatshana mo thoko ga tsela, ditlhare tse ditona-tona mo thoko ga tsela, le kgomo

e tswa ka fa ga o kake wa ba wa e bona. Ke rile mme ga go thuse sepe le tla le kampa fa

mme le ne le tsamaya ka tsone ditsela tse. A ko le thuse gore rotlhe re bue ka lentswe le

le lengwe fela re thusanye le Tona wa puso yo o a lebaganeng foo gore rona jaaka e bile

ke boditse potso, gompieno e a bo madi a road maintenance e le P94 million. Mme fa o

tsamaya le ditsela tse go na le ditsela tse di toutwang nako tse tsotlhe, di bo di dirwe

jaana go dirisiwa batho, e le sone se rona re se eletsang. Rona ko go rona o utlwa gotwe

nnyaa re tlaa dirisa dozer, re botsa gore nnaare dozer ke eng. Ke eng tse dingwe di

tshwanetswe ke dozer tse dingwe di tshwanetswe ke batho, mme gone nako tse tsotlhe re

bua ka gore fa go na le sebaka sa gore batho ba nne le se ba ka se kampuletsang, se ba ka

reng tsela e ntse jalo ba imona ka sone a go dirwe jalo. Ke bile ka bua mafoko fa nako

nngwe ya nne e kete ke a tlaopa, ya ne e kete ga ke bue sentle ke re, nnyaa, mme le ba

rona ba itse go dirisa di sekele.

Fa ba bangwe mo ditseleng tse dingwe ba kgona go dirisa disekele, e bile go hirilwe

dikompone tsa Batswana, le rona ga re palelwe ke gore dikompone tsa rona tsa Batswana

kwa di hirwe. Fa mo leubeng le le kana-kana la madi le la itsholelo, segolo bogolo kwa

dikgaolong tsa selegae, kwa the rural areas. Ke eng batho ba tshwanetse gore go bo go

dirisiwa equipment gore go digwe ditlhare, go okolwa bojang, jalo jalo. Re tshwanetse

gore re tlhoafalele gore gongwe le gongwe kwa ditsela di tshwanetseng gore go

baakanngwe teng, go fenoswe, go ntshiwe bojang, go ntshiwe shrubs, go ntshiwe

ditlhare, a batho ba dirisiwe ka gore dinako tse tsotlhe tse ke nngwe ya ditsela tse ba ka

itshetsang gore bo nne bose bo ye pele. Ga ke itse gore selo se, se padiswa ke eng.
Gompieno jaaka ke bua le lona jaana, ditsela kwa kgaolong yame, le tse dingwe tse ke di

tsamayang tse di seng mo kgaolong yame, tse di gaufi, gone kwa gantsi ke tsamaelang

teng, ditlharetlhare fela tse di gakgamatsang. Ga ke bue ka kgaolo yame e le nosi. Fa o

sena go feta Lerala, ga kere o tsena fa T-junctioneng mo tseleng ya Palapye le Martin‟s

Drift, go tswa foo fa o ya Mahalapye go na le turn-off yone e jaanong e tlaa bong e ya go

go tsenya kwa Machaneng. Gone fa gare foo, ga se ditlhare ke mathata.

MR GABORONE: Ke kopa tlhaloso.

MADAM SPEAKER: A o ne o rile o feditse Honourable Kedikilwe.

MR KEDIKILWE: Nnyaa, ga ke a fetsa mma, ke sutela tlhaloso.

MADAM SPEAKER: Ee, mme e re go tswa fa, fa o setse o ema, o bo o leka go e bua ka

bokhutshwane eo ka gore tota ga se yone e re mo go yone jaanong.

MR GABORONE: Ee, e bile ke ne ke re ke botsa ka yone ke re, ke utlwa Motlotlegi tota

gore o bua ka bread and butter issues, mme okare jaanong re dule mo tseleng e e kwa

Kgalagadi ele jaanong re kwa dikgaolong. Go re isa kwa go reng re tloge re emelele, le

nna ke le bolelele mathata a re nang nao mo Tlokweng, mme re tswa mo kgannye e.

MADAM SPEAKER: Ke boammaaruri Honourable Kedikilwe. Tswelela mme o…

MR KEDIKILWE: Kana kgang e tona ke gore gatwe fa re bua ka second reading of any

bill, re bua ka the principles arising from there. Kgang yame e tona ya principle fa ke

gore, go thusang re dira ditsela tse di kana-kana, e bile re di amogela gore tota tsone di

tlhokagala gore re di dire, mme go tswa foo re bo re sa di tlhokomele. Gongwe ke ka bo

ke file dikai tse di kgakala, mme tota ke raya tsotlhe fela. A o ka bo o ya kwa Okavango,

kgang e ntse ke yone eo fela. O fitlhela o tsamaya mo sepitlaganyaneng e le gore ditlhare

di tletse foo.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le ya Tlokweng mme o feta fale…(inaudible)…

MR KEDIKILWE: Ee. Ke na le lebaka ke sa tsamaele ka fa Tlokweng. Fa e le gore go

ntse jalo le gone, kgang e tona fela ke gone gore, a ditsela tse fa re bua ka road safety, a

re bua ka road safety lefatshe lotlhe ka gore go na le ditsela tse re itseng gore di a

tlhokomelwa. Dinako tse tsotlhe tse okare P94 million o ya teng, rona ga re ke re ba re

bona sepe sa P94 million. P94 million o, ke eng a tshela a ya ntlha e le nngwe fela. A re

sekang ra dira ditsela tse e leng gore road safety ya tsone kana thulaganyo ya tsone ya

ipabalelo tseleng e sokametse ntlha e le nngwe fela. Ke tsaya gore mafoko ame ke one ao.

Ke a leboga.

MR M. R. REATILE (NGWAKETSE WEST): Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ke dumela gore ke tlaa batla ditlhaloso ka fa kgang e e ntseng

ka teng ka gore, re bua ka 104 million o re mo adimang kwa bankeng ya China, mme

gape e le gore re ne re le fa e le gore re tsamaya ka estimate ya 2006/2007. Mme mo teng

fa ke lebelela madi a secondary roads, go supagala gore ngwaga e re ya go dirisa madi a

kana ka 135 million. Mme e bile gape madi a, a tswa mo DDF, e se a FTBN. Jaanong ke

gone fa ke batlang gore ke tlhaloganye teng gore, a jaanong madi a go supagalang gore re

ya go a tsaya kwa DDF, re a a tlogela jaanong re bo re ya go simolola re dirisa madi a

FTBN. Fa e le gore buka e tlaa bo e ntse jaana re bo re feta re e endorsa re le Palamente,

Tona a bo a tla ka bill e e tshwanang le e re bo re dumalana ka yone, e le e e supang gore

madi a a yang go dirisiwang mo Dutlwe/Morwamosu ke a kadimo ya China, buka yone e

sa supe gore re tlaa ya go adima madi. Ke gone fa ke nang le bothata teng Tona. Mme e

bile gape estimates tsa ba ditsela, ba ne ba supa gore total cost ya tsela ele, madi a a tlaa

yang go dirisiwa mo teng ke 143 million. Tona o supa gore tsela e madi a teng a tlaa nna
mantsi, a tlhatlogela kwa go 211 million. Go tlaa bo go na le pharologanyo ya 68 million.

Ke tsone dilo tse nna ke batlang gore Tona a di ntlhatswetse ke tle ke itse gore tota

gompieno re tsamaya fa kae. Gongwe o ntshiile thata. Mme fa a ka mpha ditlhaloso, ke

ka tsena mo tseleng ka gore gompieno fa re bua ka madi, ga re a tshwanela gore sengwe

le sengwe e nne ekete re a go raela, kana e bile ekete gape re timetsa Palamente.

MR MOKGWATHI: Ke kopa tlhaloso. Ke a leboga mmaetsho. Ke a leboga

Honourable Comrade. Mo kgannye ya gago e o e buang, madi a a neng a tshwanetse gore

a dirisiwe mo ngwageng o wa madi wa 2006/2007, a ke one e leng 143 million, kampo

143 million ke wa project yotlhe? Jaaka o bua gore go ne gotwile madi a tlaa tswa mo

Domestic Development Fund (DDF), a wa re go ne go sa tlhalosiwa sentle gore madi a

tlaa tswa kwa Export, Import Bank ya China? Ke a leboga.

MR REATILE: Potso ya gago ya ntlha ka fa go ntseng ka teng, 143 million ke wa

project yotlhe ka gore ngwaga wa ntlha re ntsha 30 million, wa bobedi re tshwanetse re

ntshe 70 million, wa boraro ke 43 million. E bo e nna 143 million. Jaanong, potso ya gore

madi a ne a tshwanetse go tswa kwa China, buka e ke yone e e leng gore, go raya gore

madi a re a dirisang, a re a a negotiatang, go mo bukeng e. A madi a re a dirisang ke a

DDF, go mo bukeng e? Jaanong buka e, ke yone e e leng gore e bua gore re ya go dirisa

madi a a kana ka 135 million mo ngwageng yone e, ka fa tlase ga secondary roads mo

Head No.09289. Ke gone fa ke reng ke nna le bothata teng. Ke batla gore Tona a mphe

lesedi la gore, a jaanong kgang e e leng gore e mo, re simolole re itse gore buka e, se e se

phuthetseng tota re e tlhokomologe re itse gore nnete yotlhe e tlaa tla e le gore ke tsone

bills tse a tlang ka tsone. Ke gone fa ke nnang le bothata teng.

Mme ke fetela mo go ya gore, kana bakaulengwe ba ne ba ntse ba lela selelo sa gore
loans tsa China di tla di ntse di na le megatlana. Mme ke supe gore, ga ke dumele gore ka

fa loans tsa China di ntseng ka teng, e le goromente wa lefatshe la China, nna ke bona go

na le bothata. Bothata bo ka tswa bo le kwano ka gore, bale se ba se dirang, bone ba eme

ka dinao go bona gore ba lefatshe la bone ba ba tlhokomela go le kae. Mme e ya

Batswana e, e mo maruding a Batswana, a Palamente e, gore re bone gore tota se re se

dirang go bona gore re sireletsa Batswana ke ka tsela e e ntseng jang. Ke dumela gore

gompieno re kopa thata ka kwa ntle tse di siameng. Ga re nke re kopa thata tse di maswe.

Kgang e ya China, ke nngwe ya dilo tse di siameng thata tse re tshwanetseng go di kopa.

Fa re tsaya South Africa gompieno jaana, ka 2010 World Cup, se ba se dirileng,

Palamente maloba e ne e sa ntse le mo teng ba supa gore ga gona ka fa e leng gore stadia

tsa rona… dikonteraka tsotlhe le fa gotwe ga re na botswerere jo bo rileng, sengwe le

sengwe se ka dirwa kwa Jeremane se bo se tswa kwa se feletse. Models tsone di tsweletse

di dirwa kwa Jeremane mme they have engaged dikomponi tsa mo gae tse e leng gore ke

architectures. Ba kopanetse le bone tiro e ya gore stadia tse tharo tse di yang go dirwa,

ba mo gae ba na le seabe se se feteletseng mo ditirong tsone tseo.

E nngwe gape re bo re boa re re, fa o tsena kwa South Africa ka konteraka ya Botswana,

o atlegile go bona tendera ka fa o tlaa bong o atlegile ka teng. Sa ntlha fela se ba se

lopang, ba ya go tla ka yo e leng a South African ba re yo kana ba, e tshwanetse e nne

bangwe ba e leng gore ba forma consortium. E nna bangwe ba e leng gore jaanong o goga

le bone go ya pele. Mme le rona ke tsone dilo tse e leng gore fa re tswa go tsaya madi

kwa re a tsayang teng, le bone fa ba tsena mo ka botswerere jo ba nang najo jwa bo The

Great Wall of China, re ba bolelela gore le ka kopana le bangwe ba Batswana ke ba ba

konteraka ya Majalefa, kana ke ba eng. Ya nna yone e e leng gore jaanong e nna le
shares. Ma-Afrika Borwa ba le bantsi ke millionaires jaaka Honourable Sebetela a ne a

bua. Ba bangwe ga e ise e ke e re le fa e le ka letsatsi lepe ba investe le fa e le one cent

mo dikomponeng tsa mofuta one oo. Se ba se beleditseng mo dikomponeng tsone tseo ke

passport ya bone ya bo-Afrika Borwa fela. Rona go ka pala eng gore tsone dikgato tse di

tshwanang le tseo re di tseye, re lese go nna re ntse re re kana kwa Afrika Borwa

Mapalamente a duelwa thata, mo gae Mapalamente ga ba duelwe. A re boneng gore re

itebaganya le dikgang tse e leng gore Batswana botlhe, a o Tona, a o Mopalamente, a o

Motswana fela, mme gone fa tsamaiso e ntse jaana, go tlaa bo go roba mongwe le

mongwe. Fa gompieno re re re lebelela gore mo gompienong re lela ka madi a a kana ka

5.8 billion gore ke one a re tshwanetseng gore re bone gore Batswana ba ka roba sengwe

mo teng. Le fa Honourable Sebetela a supile gore mme nako e siile ya 104 million, gore

mme nako e setse e ile. Ga ke dumele gore e tsamaile thata Motlotlegi ka mabaka a gore,

tsone projects tsa mofuta o, di sa ntse di ya go re tsaya bo thirty months. Fa re re re letela

gore di wele, Batswana ba tlaa bolawa ke tlala thata. Re tshwanetse re dire molao o e leng

gore e tlaa re golo gongwe fa o tsena, batho bale ba tshwanetse gore ba felele ba tsaya

ditshwetso tse ba neng ba tsile ka tsone tsia. Ba itse gore goromente wa lefatshe la

Botswana jaanong o tsile ka molao o e leng gore Batswana ba roba mo teng. Fa re

lebelela Mid- Term Review ya NDP 9, next year re ya go dirisa madi a a kana ka 15.4

billion, fa e le gore sengwe le sengwe se se kwadilweng fa se ka diragadiwa. Fa e le gore

re tlaa ya go ntsha madi a e leng gore a lekana le ene 15.4 billion e le a re a tlhagisang

molelwane fela go sena bape Batswana ba ba tlaa robang mo teng, ke dikutlo botlhoko le

mahutsana tlhe Palamente e e fano le Tona yo o lebaneng. A re ko re bone gore re ema ka

dinao ka mowa otlhe e seng ka dipounama, Batswana ka ditsela tsotlhe re a ba sireletsa
ka gore tshepo ya bone mo lefatsheng ba e beile mo teng ga Ntlo e. Le yone Ntlo e, e

tshwanetse gore e supe gore ka botlalo, ka boammaaruri, re emetse Batswana ka dinao ka

tse re ka tswang re di dirile. A re seka ya re fa re dira dilo ra bereka go supana ka

monwana gore e ne e le ba phathi ya gore. Nako e tsile, fa e le gore re ne re ntse re sa

gopole gore dilo tse ke tse di ka diragalang. Jaanong di tsile tsa gore jaanong re tsene mo

pakeng ya gore re bone gore re tlhofofatsa dilo, Batswana ba simolole go benefita mo

mading a makgetho a lefatshe la bone. E re ka moso fa madi a a tlola, a mangwe a bo a

setse mo gae. Le rona e re ka moso re kgone to bail out mafatshe a mangwe. Fa ke supa

tsone dilo tse Tona, gongwe fa e le gore re ne re ka dira dilo motlhofo gore dikonteraka

tse di tswang kwa ntle, ke baya e le sekai fela, fa di tsena mo gae mo di kopana le tsa

Batswana, tsa Batswana di tsaya 5 per cent fela mo teng. Dimmilone tse di dintsi too

much, Batswana ba tlaa bo ba robile go le go tona. Ga re tlhoke gore Batswana gotwe ba

tlaa tsaya bo 40 per cent, 5 per cent, e le gore Batswana e tlaa bo e le gore ba kopane le

MaChina, kana ke a Kuwait kana ke a kae, Batswana go tlaa bo go lekane. E seka ya re

gompieno jaana o bo o ntse o utlwa gotwe kana Mopalamente wa gore gatwe o na le

shares kwa khamphaning ya gore, Tona wa gore o na le shares, e kete ke sephiri. Go nne

kgololesego go itsege gore go a patelesega, molao o a letla gore khamphani e e tswang

kwa ntle e kopane le khamphani nngwe ya mo gae, ba gatele pele. Fa ba tsamaya mme e

bo e le gore experience re na le yone e seng experience ya go kgweetsa bomatipane re

tshela metlhaba kwa saeteng kana ya go kgweetsa dibaosara re tshela metsi at the site. E

bo e le gore le fela go tsamaisa kompone re setse re itse gore dilo tse tsotlhe MaChina ba

re tlogetse le tsone le rona re tlaa sala re ntse re itsweledisa go ya pele. Mo go tse ke

setseng ke di batlile e le ditlhaloso Tona, ga ke itse gore o ya go di mpha leng. Ke tle ke
itse gore tota gompieno jaana re fa kae, jaaka ke sa tswa go supa ka yone ya DDF le ya

FTBN. O tlaa bo o ntlhatsweditse thata ka gore fa ke sena go nna fa fatshe, nako ya fa o

tla o araba, o tlaa bo o ntitaya ka mowa fela o sa nkarabe. Ke sa itse gore a tota

matshwenyego ame one o a tsere kana ga o a a tsaya ka gore ke ne ke sa batle gore

dikgang tse ke di bue thata. Mme ke gone fela fa ke neng ke batla gore ke supe

matshwenyego ame mo go tsone. Mme fa e le gore o tlaa tlhalosa mo e leng gore ke a go

tlhaloganya e bile ke a go dumela, ke tlaa ema bill e nokeng ka gore tsela e, e tswa mo

Dutlwe e ya kwa Morwamosu, e tswa mo Kweneng e ya kwa kgaolong ya Ngwaketse

Bophirima. Fa e le gore Tona e tlaa re a bua a bue sefanakaloo ke seke ke tlhaloganye, go

tlaa nna bokete gore ke tlhaloganye. Ka gore fa re dira ka madi Tona, re tshwanetse e re

ka moso e seka ya re o supiwa ka monwana ra bo re patagana le ba ba go supang ka

monwana. Re tshwanetse re itse gore monwana fa o supa, le rona re mo teng. Ke sone se

ke batlang gore dikgang tse re buang ka madi a bokete jo bo kana-kana, e nne tlhaloso e e

leng gore le rona e tlaa kgona gore e re bule ditlhaloganyo. Go na le language e ke itseng

gore e tlaa re kgantele o e dirisa o bo o re funds di kgona gore di nne open gore re ka

dirisa e kwa domestic kana re ka ya go tsaya FTBN. Jaanong yone eo, ke gone fa o tlaa

bong o ntsenya mo bothateng teng. Ke batla fela o tle o papametse Tona. Ka mafoko a a

kalo ke a leboga.

MS TSHIRELETSO (MAHALAPYE EAST): Ke a leboga, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo

tsa Palamente. Ke emela go amogela kopo e e tlang ka Tona e e leng gore mo go yone o

bua ka madi a e leng gore lefatshe la rona le a adimilwe ke ba lefatshe la China.

Jaaka mo kopong e nngwe e e neng e feta maloba, re bona go tshwanna gore kgang e re

seka ra e bua gongwe ka boleele jo bo kalo ka re itse botlhokwa jwa tsela. Re a itse gore
ko go senang ditsela jaaka rona ba re emetseng dikgaolo tsa magae bogolobogolo ko

kgang e e buang ka sekontere e sa ntse e le mathata. Kopo e, e re neela tsholofelo gore e

tlaa re mo bokhutshwaneng kana mo tsamaong ya nako gongwe le rona sengwe se re

rothegele ka gore re a itse Mmaetsho, gore mo ditseleng go na le dilo tse dintsi thata tse e

leng gore di a diragala jaaka dikotsi, bomme ba ba itsholofetseng ba tshelela mo

letshogong la gore ditsela tse e tlaa re dikoloi tse di sa tsamaye sentle gongwe ba tlhaelele

mo tseleng. Jalo fela le tse dingwe Mmaetsho, mme gone ba palame dikoloi ba ya go

belega, batsadi, ee, ke bona le batla thata go utlwa gore go buiwa ka eng. Jaanong ke re,

ke sone se eleng gore ke ema ke dumalana le kopo e. Mme mongwe moitsepuo o rile go

na le bread and butter politics e e leng gore fa re bua ga re ka ke ra itebala gore re re, go

na le ditsela tse e leng gore di teng di dumeletswe kana re dumetse re le Palamente e gore

tse dingwe jaaka re ntse re di kopela madi, di simologa ngwaga ono 2006/07 mme go na

le tse dingwe tse re di dumetseng mo ditogamaanong tsa rona tsa Mid-Term Review, gore

di ya go tsena ka 2007/08. Re kope Tona gore gongwe ka bofefo fa re ntse re tsamaya le

ngwaga, ba kope madi a a tshwanang le a gore gongwe e seka ya re ngwaga o o tlang e

bo e le gore re sa ntse re simololwa re bolelelwa gore di a tlotlolosiwa kana di ya ko pele,

gore Mmaetsho ba dire mo go tweng „mosele wa pula o epiwa go sale gale.‟ Re nne re

kope madi mo mafatsheng jaaka re ntse re itebagantse le ba China.

Nna ke rata ke tlatse ke re, lefa re bua ka ditsela tse, bangwe re nna le bete se

molangwana. Tsela e e tswang mo Rasesa e tsena ko Dibete; e tswa mo Dibete e ya

Mahalapye; Dibete e ya ko Palapye; Palapye e ya ko Francistown, Mopalamente wa me

Rre Merafhe le ene o kile a bua kgang e, ditsela tse re ne re ka eletsa gore di tsamaye di le

pedi di bapile. Dikoloi tse di tswang bontlha jo bongwe di tsamaye di le pedi mo go
tweng dual carriage, tse dingwe le tsone di tsamaye bontlha bongwe, ka gore fa re di

lebelela tsela yone e go ka bong gotwe ke highway is busy, e na le mathata. Gompieno

jaana ga o e tsaya go tswa mo Dibete go ya ko Mahalapye, e a dirwa bontlheng jo

bongwe e a tshelwa. Nna ka bonna sekonterenyana se sengwe sele fa go fetswa se a

ntshiwa. Mme fa Tona a ne a ile a…

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF TRANSPORT (MR RAMSDEN): Elucidation, Madam

Speaker. Madam Speaker, go ne go ntse jalo maloba. E ne e a re fa go dirwa tsela e

nngwe e kgologolo e bo e ntshiwa. Jaanong re bone gone gore e kgologolo e seka ya

ntshiwa for the time being, e re ko bofelong re bo re ka boa ra e dira sesha gore di nne

pedi. Jaanong ba bangwe ba tlaa dirisa e kgologolo, ba bangwe ba tlaa dirisa e ncha.

Thank you.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Mme Palamente e ya Botswana ga e ise e bolelelwe. Nna ka

bonna ke itse gore jaaka o bonwa go dirwa kafa…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …Inaudible…

MS TSHIRELETSO: Ee, Rra. Lefa Rre Modubule a buela ko tlase.

MADAM SPEAKER: Honourable Member, please address me.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Mma ke ba tlogele mme ba a bua, ka gore e nngwe go riana jaaka

ke bua ke riana ke tsela fela e e…

MR KEDIKILWE: Clarification, Honourable Speaker. Ke ne ke re, ka Tona o sa tswa

go tlhalosa. A re fa a re tlhomamisetsa gore e kgologolo e tlaa bo e sa senngwe, potso ke

gore a go tlaa bo go na le madi a gore e tokafadiwe ka gore fa e ka tlogelwa e ntse jaaka

ha e ntse jaana, e bile go tlaa bo go le botoka e ka bo e sentswe ka gore e maswe fela

thata?
MS TSHIRELETSO: Ke a leboga, Mmaetsho. Ke ne ke re, selo se sengwe se e leng

kopo mo go rona ke gore fa diphetogo di diragala, Palamente e tshwanetse ya nna le

tshwetso ya bo ya itse, ka gore gompieno ke bua jaaka motho yo e ka reng ga ke nne mo

Botswana. Mme ke ne ke ise ke wele lefa a ne a lemoga gore ke ya kae, ke re, ke tlatsa

gore Rraetsho Mompati Merafhe yo o neng a bua ka gore a e re go dirwa tsela ya

Mahalapye/Dibete di tsamaye di bapile e e tswang kwa le e e yang kwa. Mme Tona ga a

bua…

MR MABILETSA: Point of procedure. Ntlha ya me ya point of procedure ke gore,

Motlotlegi Tona Kedikilwe o ne a botsa Tona potso e e amanang le ditsela, nna ke tsaya

gore gongwe Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo o tlaa fa Rre Tona sebaka sa go araba

potso eo. Jaanong ka gore o ne a boditse a go kopile tetla, ga o a mo fa potso eo. Re ne re

rile re tlaa anya sengwe jaanong Tona ke yole ba tsentse phuthego mmogo. Jaanong ke

re, a ke yone tsamaiso yone eo?

MADAM SPEAKER: Tona is not on the floor.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Ke a go leboga Mmaetsho, le nna ke a gakgamala, poverty ke mo

tlotla thata, tsatsi jeno o timetse. O timetse mokaulengwe. Tota ba nkitsa go isa ntlha ya

me ko ke yang teng. Ka gore ka re ditsela tse fa di ne di bapile go ne go siame. Le Rre

Mopalamente Kedikilwe ke dumalana nae gore selo se se tle se tlhalosiwe ke Tona sentle,

gongwe e tlaa re ka moso ke bo ke tsentse potso gore a re bolelele ka gore nna ka bonna

ke ne ke dumela gore fa tsela e fela Mmaetsho, ba tlaa bo ba ntsha e e kafa e. Mme nka

itumela fa ba sa e ntshe gone. Jaaka fa Rraetsho Kedikilwe a bua ba bo ba e baakanya, ba

tlaa bo ba dumelane le Rre Merafhe underground ba sa mmolelela gore re dumalana le

kopo ya gago. Nna re tlatsa selo se gore go seka ga berekelwa dilo kafa tlase ga ditafole
re le Mapalamente re itse.

Mme jaaka Mmaetsho re tsweletse ke bua ka mogopolo ke re, kana ditsela tsone tse re sa

di direng gompieno mo dingwageng tse di tlang madi a teng a tlaa bo a le ko godimo.

Mme jaaka mongwe a botsa re kope gore e kopelwe madi, e re e e kafa e fela e nngwe e

bo e baakanngwa. E nngwe e ko godimo e nngwe e ko tlase mo go rayang gore go tlaa

baakanngwa Mmaetsho.

MR MOKALAKE: Ke kopa tlhaloso. In terms of equity fela mme gone mokaulengwe o

bona go tlaa bo go siame fela gore fa setshaba se le kanakana mo Botswana se sa ntse se

lwela lane e le nngwe fela e e ka tshasiwang legogo le lentsho, re bo re setse re ka akanya

dual carriage e e boleele bo kalo? Ke a leboga.

MS TSHIRELETSO: E gongwe o timetse. Kana sengwe le sengwe se na le go

simologa. Se ke se itseng ke gore jaaka o bona ba Ministry ba akanya gore tsela e e

tswang Gaborone e ya Kanye le tsela e e tswang Gaborone e ya Lobatse, ba setse ba dirile

e e tswang fa e ya Ramotswa di kopane, o bo o mpolelela gore a di ne di ka seka tsa dira

tsela e e tswang mo Dibete e ya ko Machaneng. Di ne di ka dira jalo, mme ka re lebelela

bokete ja dikoloi, re lebelela dikotsi tse di diragalang foo ke sone se re kopang re bona go

tlhokagala gore e re ntswa ko Khwee go ise go dirwe tsela e e yang teng, mme re bo re

itse gore go na le fa e leng gore gone go simololwa teng go a dirwa. Ke sone se e leng

gore Mopalamente Mokalake o tlaa ikinela letsogo metsing gore re kopa jalo mme re ka

itumela ka Tona o re solofeditse, mafoko a, a mo Hansard ga go na se se ka tlholang se

fetola. Mme se sengwe Mmaetsho se eleng gore jaaka ke ne ke kopile, ke tsaya gore Tona

o nkutlwile gore ditsela tsa bo Shakwe, Makwate, Parrshalt…

MR SEBETELA: Ke kopa tlhaloso. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, kana kgang
e re ntseng re utlwa ka Mothusa Tona e ya gore jaanong ditsela di a bapisiwa, re ne re le

mo kabong ya madi, re tswa National Development Plan 9, re ne re dira Mid-Term

Review, kgang e ga e ise e ko e tswe ka gore kana e na le ditlamorago tsa madi. Tota fela

ke kgang e ncha fela jaaka mme a bua, ke raya gore le nna ke a e gakgamalela ka gore

Francistown go tsena mo Serule, tsela e bolailwe ga e yo, e nngwe fela fela. Serule go ya

Palapye, tsela e bolailwe, e nngwe fela. Mahalapye/Palapye tsela e e bolailwe, e nngwe

fela.

Jaanong kgang e go tlaa re yone golo gongwe re e tlhalosediwe ka gore fa o utlwa ke e

botsa jaana Motsamaisa Dipusanyo tsa Palamente, ke gore ke utlwa Mopalamente yo o

tlotlegang a ntse a wela mo go yone thata a leboga Tona. Ke re, a iketle re tle re utlwe

pele gore ka re le Palamente e le rona ba re rebolang madi, a seka a tloga a leboga Tona,

ra tloga ra ikgolega. Nna ke ne ke re ke mo gakolola gore a name a iketlile ka go leboga,

a emele dikgang tse re tle re di utlwe sentle, gongwe ene Tona o tlaa ema a e re

tlhalosetse ka gore re setse re na le ditsela tse di dirilweng mme e kgologolo e bolailwe.

MR RAKHUDU: Further clarification, Madam Speaker. Kana jaanong re a bo re tsile

go tsiediwa ke tsamaiso. Nna ke ne ke re, Tona Rre Gaolathe gongwe e re fa a setse a tla

go soboka, ka gore kgang e Tona wa Ditsela le Ditiro le fa a diiwa ke wa molao, gongwe

a ko a sebetse Tona yo o kopang madi ka ene ha a kopa madi a tsela ya

Dutlwe/Morwamosu o kopela ene kana.

Jaanong a tle a mo sebetse ka gore golo mo Madam Speaker jaaka Honourable

Tshireletso le Honourable Sebetela ba bua, e na le consequences tse di gakgamatsang.

Kana re a bo re ya dikgotleng. Ga o re golola gone fa, ra a bo re ya dikgotleng, re ya go

bua le Batswana ka dilo tse di ntseng jaana. Ga re itse gore a ke change of policy se a se
buang kana ke eng. Mme unfortunately ka gaa on the floor we understand we cannot

engage him. Mme fela gongwe go ka nna le mosola ka gore le rona ba re tsileng go bua,

go raya gore jaanong our debate o e fagotse ka mongwe mokgwa. Ke a go leboga Madam

Speaker.

MADAM SPEAKER: Ke solofela gore ba tlaa sebetsana.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Mma ke arabe mokaulengwe wa me yo o neng a nthaya a re ke

seka ka leboga.

MINISTER          OF   FINANCE         AND      DEVELOPMENT             PLANNING         (MR

GAOLATHE): Clarification on the duelling of the Mahalapye/Dibete road. There is no

provision for doing that in NDP 9. What the Minister was saying is that unlike the other

sections where they were destroying the old road, they will not destroy that, in the hope

that as a function of traffic and other factors that should it be economic to actually dual

that road, they may find that it is cost effective to make use of the road that exists already.

I think let us not raise our hopes now in NDP 9. Government has not taken any decision.

The policy is to widen the entire Gaborone/Francistown road such that, for instance, slow

moving vehicles can always go onto the side. That is the present policy of widening. And

if there is any duelling, it will start nearer centres of traffic like for instance,

Francistown/Tonota, here, the border post and all that. But certainly there is no provision

to actually dual that section. But they are saying in future they will design such that

should we come to that stage at least the old road will be there and perhaps they will be

improving on it.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Ke a leboga, Mmaetsho. Fa o tshwerwe ke tlala o bo o utlwa go

nkga schuu kafa o eletsa go ka a ja. Jaanong ke ne ke utlwa go itumela gore tota fa e le
gore ke gone ga ke boele ko morago, lefoko ga le boe, mme legale re lebogela ditlhaloso

tseo mma ke tswelele ka se ke neng ke se bua.

Jaanong ke tswelele ka gore nngwe ya dikgang jaaka ke amogela tsela ya

Dutlwe/Morwamosu, nngwe ya kgang tse di tshwenyang tse Mmaetsho ke batlang gore

goromente yo wa rona, yo o nang le tebelopele, Palamente e ya Botswana e di lebe ke e.

Tsone dikompone tse tsa MaChina, mafoko a a builweng ke Rre Nagafela ga di hire

bomme. Jaanong ke batla golo mo go tsenngwe leitlho gore ke eng fa di sa hire bomme,

kgethololo e e kanakana ke ya eng mo dikomponeng tse dingwe jaaka ARAP

Construction yone ya Mahalapye/Dibete, yone e le gore ba kgona go hira bomme ba dira

ditiro tse bomme ba ka di dirang?

MR RAKHUDU: Elucidation, Madam Speaker. Nna ke ne ke re, mokaulengwe a ko a

tlhalose gore ntlha e a buang e ya gore dikompone tse tsa MaChina ga di hire bomme, ke

belaela gore o raya tse di berekang mo ditseleng, a tlhalose gore a golo mo ke

boammaaruri thoothoo, is it a fact?

MS TSHIRELETSO: Rraetsho, e ke tlhomamisang mme ebile e se ya MaChina, nako e

e dirang tsela ya Serowe/Palapye ke ne ka utlwalela gore ga ba hire bomme.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gatwe tsa MaChina.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Ke bua ka tsa MaChina. Mme ebile gape ke batla ke re fa

mokaulengwe a ne a bua le nna Rre Nagafela ka seemo se, ke se amogela e le

boammaaruri, mme e bile ke ntse ke utlwa bomme eseng yone fela, ke go tlhalosetse ka e

nngwe, e gompieno ba dupang Mamabula. Ga ba hire mosadi lefa e le yo mongwe fela.

Jaanong ka re ya MaChina ke bua ka yone ka ke a itse ke boleletswe ke bomme bangwe

mo dikgaolong tsone tse dikompone tsa MaChina di dirang teng gore ba batlile tiro go
gannwe.

MR NAGAFELA: Point of clarification. Ke ne ke re, lefa mme a bua mafoko a a

botlhokwa, ke baakanye sengwe ka gore nako e ke neng ka bua gongwe bangwe ba ne ba

seka ba nkutlwa sentle. Ke beye sekai fela gore ke ne ke bua ka nakwana e e rileng

MaChina ka kwa ba hira bomme thata ba re ba boikanyego go feta borre, ko ntleng ga

incidence e e neng e le ko Dutlwe fela re fitlhela go na le bothatanyana jwa gore ba ne ba

sa hira basadi gone foo. Ke gore go tswa fa nnetlaneng go ya kwa ba ne ba re basadi ba

boikanyego go gaisa borre, le go utswa ga ba utswe.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Ke a leboga rra, ke a leboga mmaetsho. Mme mafoko a a tsene

mo go nna e le dikompone dingwe tsa MaChina le tse dingwe. Mme ke ne ke re ke bue

selo se ke re re se lebelele ko pele, mongwe o ka re nkgata ke tlhaname mme e le gore mo

go tse dingwe tsa dikompone mo Botswana ga ba hiri bomme. Ke re, selo se e re yone e

fa e tsena ka ga e ise e simolole condition nngwe e nne gone gore bomme ba tsene mo

…(inaudible)…

MR RAKHUDU: On a point of procedure Madam Speaker. Thank you very much

Madam Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to intervene. I think in this Honourable

House it is only fair that if a Member of Parliament on the floor realises that he had made

a sweeping statement that is actually not factual, if they realise that it is not factual the

honourable thing to do is to correct that for the record and for the record in the Hansard.

Kana the Hansard is a very important piece of reference for the public in this Republic,

so it is only fair that the Honourable Member perhaps should detract that rather than a bo

a tswelela jaaka o ka re nnyaa ga go re sepe fela, go a re sepe. Thank you Madam

Speaker.
MS TSHIRELETSO: Mmaetsho ke a leboga. Kana fa mokaulengwe a ne a bua a bo a

boa a fetoga e le mafoko a re neng re a utlwa a a bua…

MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION

(LT. GEN. MERAFHE): Madam Speaker, on a point of elucidation. I think we are

being grossly unfair to the Honourable Member. When we come to this Parliament we

express views, which are based on our own observation and perceptions of the situations

as we observe them when we go around this country and sometimes, we talk to people,

they misinform us, sometimes they exaggerate. But really as a Member of Parliament you

are entitled to express your own views on information that you have really received. This

is not a court of law; this is a House of Parliament where people express their views on

issues that they have come about through observation and a number of ways.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Ke a leboga, nna kana ga ke a tla ke le nosi. Nnyaa mme ke a

leboga rraetsho. Mma ke tswelele ka go wela. Tota ke ne ke setse ke wela mmaetsho ke

gore go nnile le dikgang tse dintsi. Mma ke wele Mopalamente, kana ga o itse le gore a

mafoko a gago ke a utlwile.

MR RAKHUDU: On a point of elucidation Madam Speaker. Thank you very much

Madam Speaker. Re ka tsaya kgakololo bogolo-jang mo Mapalamenteng a magologolo,

ga go molato jaaka Motlotlegi Merafhe a bua. Mme fa Mopalamente yo mongwe a go

raya a re a ke boammaaruri jwa thoothoo ka Sekgoa, is it a fact? Foo go supagala gore it

is not a fact o ne o rile it is a fact. Nnyaa foo you should correct, I do not agree with

Honourable Merafhe, I think what he is saying he is setting a very very dangerous

precedence for this House and the future.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Ke a go leboga. Mmaetsho, Rraetsho Motlotlegi Nagafela, yo ke
neng ke mo tlatsa, o tlhalositse gore go na le fa go ntseng jalo. Ga ke itse gore go kgopisa

ka eng gore re kope gore a le bomme le bone go seka ga nna le mafelo a go tweng fa

bokaekae go ne go siame, mme fa bokaekae mme o ne a sa siama. Ga ke itse gore o batla

gore ke e bue jang Mopalamente yo o tlotlegang. Ka ka re ke dumalana le gore go

rotloediwe gore dikompone gongwe le gongwe; a ke motse o monnyennyane wa

Mokoswana, a ke motse o motona wa Gaborone, go seka gatwe ko Mokoswana molao wa

re ko Phikwe gatwe molao wa re, jaaka fale fa rraetsho a ne a bua. Jaanong nna kgang ya

me ga ke e boele ko morago ka ke tlhamaletse ka re kgethololo e e ka tswelela ya tsenela

ko pele, ke bua ke rialo. Ka e bile bomme ba na le go ikuela, e bile ke re le fa ke bua ka

kgang ya MaChina „more wa gole o epiwa ka motlha wa tsholo,‟ go na le tse dingwe

dikompone jaaka ya ga Mmamabula e ke itseng gore ga ba hiri bomme gotlhelele.

HONOURABLE MEMBER:… (Inaudible)…

MS TSHIRELETSO: Ga se MaArabia, ka re ya Mmamabula e e dupang gompieno

jaaka ke bua jaana. MaArabia ba hira bomme, Ma-Arabia ba hira motho mongwe le

mongwe. Mme jaanong ke re, ga ke ka ke ka tshaba go bua mafoko ao ka ke a itse gore

go a diragala, mo kgaolong ya me go teng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke MaChina?

MS TSHIRELETSO: Ga se MaChina, ka re dikompone.

Mma ke tswelele mmaetsho o ne o mphile sebaka. Jaanong ke ne ke wela ka gone gore

mme ka one mafoko a ke neng ke a bua a e bile ke ikopela borre ba ba mo gore, re a itse

gore ba ema kgapetsa kgapetsa ba le bantsi ba bua, fa ba bona o le mme e kete o a bua ba

batla to derail you mme ga ba ka ke ba se bona. Jaanong ke a leboga mmaetsho.

MR RAKHUDU (GABORONE NORTH): Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa
Palamente. Tona ke emela go go ema nokeng gore molawana o o o kopang o wa gore re

rebole kopo ya madi e o e dirang kana molao o o go letlelelang gore o ye go adima madi

a selekanyo se o se buang, o se beile ka dipalo tsone tsa 150 million Renminbi Yuan le

dipula tse o reng selekanyo e ka nna P104 million le ka morokotso o o ko tlasetlase o

MaChina ba boneng o re lekanye, nna ka re go siame chibelu fa go tualo go tlaa bo go

siame. Mme e re ke rialo Tona ke re re a leboga thata gore re bo re oketsa mesepele ya

rona mo Botswana. Mesepele ya rona mo Botswana rra kana ke raya tsa ditlhaeletsanyo

ka gore dilo tse ditsela ke tsone tsa ditlhaeletsanyo tse e leng gore di dira gore lefatshe la

rona le gokagane ka bomotlhofo.

Mme ke dumalana le bakaulengwe le bankane ba me ba ba buileng pele ga me ba go ema

nokeng ka mafoko otlhe a ba a buileng, le a mangwe a a baakantsweng ke ba bangwe, ba

bangwe ba a senya ka ba ne ba goboka thata, le ba kganetso tota. Rraetsho, selo se se

tonatona se re tshwanetseng gore re se ele tlhoko ke gore re ithutile eng mo dipakeng tse

di fetileng. Re na le dingwaga tse di ntsi, fa go na le sengwe sa dilo tse re di dirileng kana

tse re di agileng mo Botswana se se ntsintsi ke ditsela. Re agile ditsela tse dintsi mo go

maswe mo Botswana ka boleele jo bo gakgamatsang Madam Speaker. Mme fa re ne re ka

akanya gore madi a re a dirisitseng mo ditseleng ke bokae ke madi fela a a gakgamatsang,

a e leng gore ka dinako tseo re ne re sa ntse re ithuta re itlwaetsa mekgwa ya go dira ya

go tlhabolola yone meamuso ya lefatshe le infrastructure. Re ne nako eo re sa nonofa

thata mo go reng re bo re tlhabolola batho ka gore re ba direle ditsela. Mme kana

gompieno mo dingwageng tse di kanakana re tshwanetse gore re bo re setse re ithutile.

Tona e rile a bua kgantele fa a araba kana a tlhalosetsa Motlotlegi Sebetela Madam

Speaker, fa e le gore ke ene Tona, o ka re ke Tona wa tsa Madi, kgantele a tlhalosa gore
kana le fa re ikitaya jaana re ikitaaganya re re ga re dire dilo tse di ntle a re nnyaa,

dichabachaba di teng tse e leng gore tsone fa di tsile mono di bona re dirile mo go ntle,

nnyaa batho bao fa e le gore re a ba gaisa fa ba tla ba galaletsa bonatla jwa rona re seka ra

tsamaya le dikgalaletso tseo ke dikgalaletso tse di sokameng.

Rona re tshwanetse gore jaanong re gatele pele re ba rute. Kana they benchmark batho

bao ga go re sepe. Gongwe re mo selekanyong se e leng gore bone they can benchmark

that is purely in order. Mme rona jaanong nako e, e re fa re bona ba re galaletsa ka tse

rona re itseng gore ga di a re lekana nyaa re gatele fela ko pele jaaka bankane ba bangwe

ba ne ba bua kgantele gore rona jaanong, we are going to benchmark ba ba setseng ba

tsamaetse kgakala. Madi a re a dirisitseng mo ditseleng in the last 30-40 years re tswa ko

go ene 3 kilometres o re mo fitlhetseng ko Lobatse go fitlhelela thousands tse re nang le

tsone gompieno fa e ne e rile nako nngwe le nngwe go simologa yone nako eo re bo re

dira gore ditiro di tsene thata mo Batswaneng, mme go tsenya ditiro mo Batswaneng re sa

reye fela gore ba ye go epa mesele ba bo ba boa ba emela tsela e e tlang, re raya gore e bo

e re 40 years later re bo re na le dikompone tse e leng gore di na le boitsaanape, the

technique, maranyane a a kalokalo a gore projects tse tsa ditsela jaanong e bo e le gore di

mo go bone. Re ntse re itse gore gone go tlwaelesegile, le mafisa, ke tlaa bua ka Setswana

sa kwa Ga-Mmangwato ka gore ga ke itse gore mafisa a ko Borolong a ne a dirwa jang le

a Kgatleng, mme fela kwa ga rona re ne re itse gore fa o ntsha dikgomo e le mafisa heela,

di mo taolong ya gago. Ke wena o laolang gore ene yo a di tshwereng tsone dikgomo tse

tsa mafisa o ka dira eng ka tsone; o ka ja eng mo go tsone a seka a ja eng mo go tsone. Fa

o ya go mo tshwaisa, nnyaa moo ke ga wena mong wa selo.

Ke dumalana thata le kgang ya ga Honourable Kedikilwe and others, ba ba neng ba bua
gore nnyaa tse go tweng megatlana kana strings attached, se mong wa madi a go rayang

a re ke ya go go adima madi ka wena ga o na nao, mme madi a me ke batla gore o a dirise

jaana le jaana o a dirise mo ditirong tsa gago mme le nna ke batla gore ke tle ke latswe

sengwenyana, fa re ka gana re tsile go nna le mathata a a feteletseng. Ka gore sone se re

gakololang Tona re re a se dire se re tlaa bo jaanong re iphatlha ka diphuka fa re ka

solofela gore jaanong ba bangwe bone ba bo ba sena botlhale jwa go dira se re reng Tona

a se diragatse mo Botswana kana Matona botlhe, ka ga se ene fela.

Gompieno re a bo re bua re lebagantse kgang le ene Madam Speaker, mme re itse gore

one madi a se se tona o batla gore Palamente e golole gore a ye go a dirisa a ye go a

adima. Mme fela fa re sena go nna re re ee madi jaanong a ya ko lephateng le sele ga se

ene a yang go aga tsela, tsela e ya go agiwa ke Honourable Ramsden le Honourable

Motsumi, jaanong le one mafoko a a ba lebaganye. Jaanong ke re re seka ra ikitaaganya

ra tla ra bona gore nnyaa MaChina ba ka bo ba sa re dikompone tsa bone di tle di latswe

sengwenyana. Se MaChina ba se dirang ke botlhale jo bo ko godimo, they are exporting

jobs ba bo ba tlola ba ya to benefit from. Ke gore they are exporting their jobs ba bo ba

ya go di reka in foreign lands, o a bona gore batho ba ba dira botlhale jo bo

gakgamatsang. Jaanong le rona ra re gone foo le rona gone fa ke gore mo nakong e e

tlang se re ka se dirang fa re bua le bone MaChina le ba bangwe ba ba tshwanang nabo ba

ba nang le madi a mantsi go re feta, re nne re leka gore during the negotiation stage re bo

re ba lemotsha gore mme fa ba rialo ga re ganane le bone mme ra re ba bo ba tla ba nna

mafatlha. Ba nne mafatlha le Batswana gore e re fa ba dira jaana ba bo ba na le Batswana

ba ba dirang nabo. Ke belaela gore ka gore le bone ba a itse gore re tlaa bo re dira se ba

se dirileng ka kwa ga ba ka ke ba gana.
Mme mme e re re rialo ke buile ka ya gore kitso, selo se re tshwanetseng gore re se lwele,

fa le bona dikompone tsa Batswana re di neela ditiro jaaka go setse go supagetse mo

ditirong tsa dikhansele; a ke tsone ditsela kana ke dikago fela. Mme le gone mo, ditsela

mo Gaborone City mo fa re sa ntse re le ko khanseleng kwa le fa nne ba bangwe re tsenye

ka difensetere mme re ne re le Makhanselara. E ne e re gone kwa Madam Speaker, re bo

re fitlhela e le gore fa re aba ditsela tse gore di agwe sesha, ke gore e le tsela e ncha

gotlhelele kana e kgologolo e e tlhabololwa e tsenngwa legogo le lesha re ne re nna le

mathata a gore re ne re batla go neela dikompone tsa Batswana mme re ya go fitlhela e le

gore, Batswana ba ba itseng tiro yone e ga ba yo.

Mme go supagala fela sentle gore molato ke wa rona re le Batswana, bogolo jang re le

Palamente ya Botswana, segolobogolo jang re le goromente yo e leng gore ke ene a

tshwereng ditiro mo Botswana. Ga re a dira gore re remelele mo go reng Batswana ba

rutwe, re itse gore mo sekgeleng sa dingwaga tse di kana, re bo re setse re rutile

Batswana ba le kana. Kana mathata a go dira re sa ipeele seelo, re se na mo go tweng

deadlines, ga ke itse gore ka Setswana ke ka e baya jang. Fa re ne re dumalana fela, e le

gore gatwe gongwe mo dingwageng tse di lesome kana tse di lesome le botlhano in the

following industries, Batswana ba bo ba setse ba le teng ba ba dirang dilo tse di ntseng

jaana. Jaanong e ka bo e rile fa Tona a tlhoma CEDA e e tlaa reng mo tshutisong ya ga

Motlotlegi Rre Sebetela fa ke ka nna le lesego la go bua, ke tlaa tla ke bua ka fa ke

dumelang gore CEDA… Palamente e e ka fa e a nkgoreletsa Madam Speaker.

MADAM SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, le a mo kgoreletsa.

MR RAKHUDU: Thank you very much Madam Speaker.

Yone CEDA e ke neng ke re e tlaa re fa ke ya go bua ka motion wa ga Motlotlegi
Sebetela, ke tlaa tlhalosa thata ka fa ke dumelang gore ko e teng gompieno ga se ko e ka

bong e le teng, e ne e tshwanetse gore e fuduge e ye kwa ministring o sele, le gale eo ke

paka e sele. Mme e ka bo e rile fa Ministara a tsenya CEDA kana Palamente e tlhoma

CEDA ka Minister of Finance and Development Planning, e bo e le gore jaanong madi a

CEDA a tsena to further consolidate those skills and knowledge e re e tlhokang mo

Batswaneng. Ka gore fa gongwe ra re Batswana ba fiwe ditiro mme re ya go nna le

mathata a gore fa re re re ba fa ditiro, ga re a ba dirisa yone tonto tshipidi, ga ba a

fatlhoga mo go lekanetseng. Le gale, tshimologo yone e a tlhokagala gongwe re tlaa bo re

simolola.

Tsela e ya Dutlwe-Morwamosu, ke tsela e e batlang gore fa re e dira re bo re itse gore re

ya go dira tsela e e bokgakajana le our centres of administration. Mme ga se gore go

molato gore re dire tsela e e bokgakajana. Maloba fa ke ile Okavango ke romilwe ke

Palamente ka tse dingwe, ke ne ka hutsafadiwa ke gore batho bangwe ga ba na ditsela

gotlhelele, mo batho ba ba tswang kwa metsaneng e e ka kwa overseas ka kwa ba nang le

mathata.

Kana mo Botswana yo o ka kwa Okavango fa o re overseas, o raya boseja jwa noka jo bo

ka kwa bokone, fa o le ka kwa bokone jo bo ka kwa borwa ga bo bidiwe overseas,

overseas ke ka kwa fela. Mo e leng gore batho fa ba ya go tsaya Omang, ba ya go tsaya

diritibatsi kgotsa ba ya kwa appointments tsa ngaka, gongwe ngaka e rile wena yo o mo

diritibatsing e re ka kgwedi ya gore ke tle ke go bone, mme ngaka e le gore gongwe e tla

gabedi mo bekeng kwa Shakawe, batho ba kaelelelwa kwa boSeronga. Batho ba kgona

go ema go tswa maphakela ka 6.00 a.m. go fitlhelela fa gongwe maitseboa ka 6.00 p.m.

ba emetse lori e e tlaa ba pegang e ya go ba tlodisa fa pantuning. Fa gongwe e re lori eo e
tlile morago, ba ye go lala fa pantuning ka gore e a bo e chaisitse, e bo e bula ka moso.

Mme fa gongwe fa e ka senyega yone pantuni e, ke mathata fela. Madam Speaker, fa o

bona re bua o ka re re tsaya kwa le kwa, ke gone go lemoga gore tsone ditsela tse di

botlhokwa mo go kae. Tsela yone e re buang ka yone e, e e fa pele ga rona e e kopelwang

kadimo ya madi, e re e ya go dirwa, bone ba lephata le le dirang ka wena rra re tlaa bo re

go rebotse gore o ye go ba adimela madi o bo o ba neela, e re ba dira ba sekaseke dilo

dingwe. Mme ke itumelela gore Mothusa Tona ya lephata leo Honourable Minister

Ramsden o teng, o re reeditse, a ko le ye go dira le lebelela kwa morago mo ditsong tsa

rona, le bone gore fa re paletsweng teng re ne re palelwa go diregile jang.

Le lebeleleng gore ditsela tse di nang le lifespan e e lekanang le yone sekgethe se le tlaa

bong le se dira seo e kae ka gore, ga se gore ditsela tsotlhe di na le lifespan e e lekanang.

A feeder road, an access road and a major trunk road di ka nna le botshelo jo bo

farologanang ka gore di dirwa ka mashetla a a farologanang. Mme fa le ka lebelela gore

diphoso mo dingwageng tse di kanakana di diregile fa go ntseng jang, le tlaa bo le itiretse

sentle. Mo kgannyeng ya bomakheneke, mme e seng bo makheneke fela, go na le golo

mo go tweng come back job, tota gantsi come back job e dia mo go maswe. Kana go a bo

go raya gore e rile tiro e dirwa lantlha, ya se ka ya dirwa sentle, you must do it right the

first time, o se ka wa tla wa e dira right the second time. Fa o ne o ka re direla gore in the

last 15 years madi a o a dirisitseng ka mo go tweng reparations ke bokae mo ditseleng, re

ka hakgamala. Yone tsela e e tswang kwa Ramatlabama e ya Ramokgwebana e, re ka nna

ra fitlhela e le gore madi a re a dirisitseng mo go yone re ntse re e petcha, re e baakanya,

a kwa godimo mo e leng gore gongwe fa re ne re sale re dira a dual carriage way go ka

bo go ne ga nna botoka.
Le gale gongwe nako eo re ne re se na bokgoni jwa madi, e seng jwa kitso. Mme gongwe

re ka bo re ne ra fenya ka gore fa o dira tsela yone e e sebedi e, o dira o itse gore o ya go

dira sennela ruri ka gore ga o ka ke wa kgona gore every two weeks o bo o boile, o

emisitse traffic ka fa, o ntse o stamporastampora. Nnyaa, golo moo ga go a re siamela.

Mme go raya gore go tle go lejwe thata. Tsela e kwa e yang go dirwa teng, e ya go dirwa

mo kgaolong ya Kgalagadi, mme fa e le gore kgaolo ya Kgalagadi ka kakaretso e na le

mathata a a tshwanang, mangwe a mathata a a tlaa nnang teng ke gore tsone dilo tse di

tlhokagalang mo kagong ya tsela, gongwe tse dingwe di ya go tsewa kgakala ka gore

Modimo Rara ga a a dika a di tlhodile foo. Mme kana go raya gore gone foo, go ya go

tsala mathata a go tura. Mme ke tseela gore mathata a go tura jaaka le setse le itse gore le

ya go adima dimmilone tse di kana, go raya gore le setse le a lemogetse.

Mathata a mangwe a a ka dirang go tura mo go feteletseng ke fa e le gore bone ba ba

dirang tsela, a ke bone ba konteraka e tonatona ya MaChina kana ke barongwana ba

bone, bomonnaabone ba subcontractees, fa jaanong ba tshwanetse go tlisa aggregate ya

seemo se se rileng, ya bothata jo bo rileng, gongwe mmala ga o re sepe mo go yone, as

long as o tsamaelana le speke seo, bone ba bo ba tlisa e e bapileng. Jaanong re tlaa bo re

ya go tsenya tsone dilori tse di boketekete mo tseleng ele, wena le rona Batswana re itse

gore o re agetse tsela e e tlileng go tsaya dilori tse di bokete mo go kalo, mme badiri ba

tsela ya gago bone, through you Madam Speaker, ba dirisitse matlapana, metlhaba kana

gravel tse e seng tsone. Jaaka gompieno jaana ke e fa sekai, kwa Serowe fa re se na madi

re aga ntlo, fa re tsaya konkoreiti re ya fela ka fa Makolojaneng ka fale, o pota fela ka fa

morago ga ga Honourable Minister Seretse ka fa o bo o harakaharaka. Ra re ke

konkoreiti mme ke lentswe le le seng thata thata. Ee, gongwe fa o aga rantafole ga go re
sepe. Ene e rile a aga ntlo ya gagwe e tonatona e e nnang e tshubile bosigo le motshegare

a ya go batla matlapa a a thata, a a itseng gore yone ntlo e e kana ka Palamente ele, ga e

ka ke ya re e nna fa godimo ga slab ya se roba.

MR MOKGWATHI: On a point of elucidation Madam Speaker. Ke a leboga Motlotlegi

Rraetsho Rakhudu. Ke ne ke re, ka gore go a kwalwa, fa o re tsela e ya go dirwa mo

kgaolong ya Kgalagadi, ba bangwe ba tlaa se ka ba go utlwa sentle ka gore totatota e mo

Kweneng e felela mo Ga-Ngwaketse. Ke ne ke re ke baakanye foo. Ke a leboga.

MR RAKHUDU: Ke a go leboga Motlotlegi Mokgwathi, go tsibosa ga gago go tlile ka

nako. O ne a re ke tlhalose gore kana ke a bo ke re tsela e ya go agiwa kwa Kgalagadi, a

re gongwe ba tloga ba bangwe ba ba itseng gore re kgaogantse Botswana ka maina, ba re

gongwe go tewa gotwe tsela e, e kwa Kgalagadi mme yone e mo Kweneng le Ngwaketse.

Kgalagadi ke ne ke raya lone lefatshe la rona le le ka kwa, I was referring to Kgalagadi

as in the Kalahari desert. Mme ke tlhalositse rra o ne o kopile jalo.

MR GAOLATHE: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. There is a small element

in the Kgalagadi District, as you know, from Kang to Tsetseng.

MR RAKHUDU: Go ne go nontsha se ke neng ke se bua gore tota yone le fa bokete jwa

yone bo le mo Kweneng le Ngwaketse, mme go na le setokana kwa Kgalagadi. Mme

Tona yo o yang go aga tsela o utlwile gore re tshwanetse gore re lebelele tse re di buang

tsa boleng, elements of quality, elements of standards. Kana Madam Speaker, ba ba

tlhalefetseng boranyane jo bo itseweng ke engineers, economists le ba bangwe,

boranyane jo re se nang najo jo, ba re go na le mefuta e le meraro ya maintenance. Go na

le preventative maintenance, repair maintenance and replacement maintenance. Fa e le

gore ya bobedi ke e tshwere sentle, mme tse pedi tse tsone ke itse gore ke di tshwere
sentle. Madam Speaker, ga go na golo mo go turang jaaka replacement maintenance.

Replacement maintenance go tewa o tlogela go o swa o bo o tla o dira sesha. Mme mo

ditseleng mo, selo se re se lebeletseng tota se se tona se re batlang gore bone ba ba yang

go aga yone tsela e ya Morwamosu ba se dire, ke gore e agwe sentle ka fa tshwanelong.

Kana ke raya gore ba bangwe ba ya go e aga, rona re ya go e amogela. Mme fa re ya go e

amogela jaana re le badirisi ba yone bone ba ba yang go e duela, kana madi a ga a duelwe

ke MaChina, a duelwa ke rona. MaChina ba re a seegetse fela, mme re ya go a busa a le

pope e bile a na le bananyana, a tsetse. Jaanong, we have every right to be part of an

inspectorate if we are not the inspectorate, re tle re tlhomamise gore fa gotwe tsela e

dirwe ka bokete jo bo kana, fa boketekete e dirilwe ka bokete jo bo kana. Re se ka ra

tlogela batho ba re nnyaa, kana ke ne ke bona letlapana lele le le kgakala ke bo ke tsaya le

le ka fa, nnyaa, fa le sa lekana, fa go sa dirwa sentle, ba tewe gotwe ba e kgankgamolole

go se ka gatwe nnyaa, kana gongwe re tloga re ngadisa ba bangwe. Ga go na batho ba ba

ngalang fa o ya go duela, ga go na batho ba ba ngalang fa e le wena mong wa

ditshenyegelo, ga go na batho ba ba ngalang fa e le wena mong wa leso. Mme one

mafoko a a boleng, ke gore one a a amanang le quality and standards, re tshwanetse gore

re tlhomamise jaaka Motlotlegi Sebetela wa Palapye a ne a bua, gore kana tsela fa e

agiwa jaana, e agiwa mo mafelong a a sa tshwaneng, mangwe mafelo a mmu o leruputla,

mangwe a kalaka, mangwe bedrock ya teng e itsetsepetse, e thatanyana.

Ke gakologelwa fela sentle MaKorea ba aga tsela ya Serowe/Orapa, ba ne ba nna le

matshwenyego a a gakgamatsang a a neng a ba ruta botegeniki jo ba neng ba se na najo,

mme e bile go ne go bolelwa gore o kare jaanong botegeniki joo bo ithutilwe ke badiri ba

ditsela ba le bantsi mo kgaolong ya Africa. Ba ne ba na le mathata a golo mo go neng
gotwe collapsible Kalahari sands. Go ne ga ba dia le gore ba tshware schedule sa tsela se

ba neng ba dumalane ka sone. Mme golo mo go neng ga nna monate ke gore gone foo, ba

ne ba itshoka gore ba bo ba re neele tsela e e siameng. Fa e neng ya nna le mathata teng

ke fa selokonyaneng sele sa mokgacha ole wa Kugae fa o feta fa Mmaashodi, o tsamaela

ka kwa. Ke gone fa e leng gore seloko sele kooteng ba ne ba se ka ba se fata sotlhe, or

they did not re-enforce it ka fa go neng go tshwanetse.

Mme re ne re batla fela gore tsone dilo tse, re tle re di ithute Tona, e re fa re ya kwa

tseleng ya Dutlwe-Morwamosu, re bo re ithutile dilo tse. Ba fitlhele e le gore re na le a

whole catalogue e re tlileng go ba tsibosa gore lefatshe la rona, go tswa gone fa Dutlwe

go ya go tsena kwa Morwamosu, kilometre by kilometre, metre by metre, re ba bolelele

gore le ntse jang ka gore ga re batle gore e re ba se na go nna ba tsamaya tsela e bo e sala

e e swa re bo re ya go adima 104 Rimibi Yuan yo mongwe re e aga sesha. Nnyaa, moo ga

go a re siamela. Ke gone mo e leng gore ba bangwe ba bua gore re se ka ra tla ra supa ba

bangwe ka monwana ga nna gatwe, e ne e le bomangmang e se bomangmang. Gone mo

tseleng yone e e umakiwang e, le go tlhodumela ga lefatshe ga go tshwane. Go na le

mafelo a lefatshe le tlhodumelang le ya kwa tlase, fa gongwe le a palamelela.

Mme kana re bua ka naga e e leng gore ka tlwaelo ga e na dipula tsa matsorotsoro tsa

ngwaga le ngwaga kana dipaka tse di tlhomaganeng go ya go ileng. E tsamaya mo

nageng e e leng gore go feta dingwaga tse di ntsi go se na dipula tse di ntsi re bo re

itebale re re nnyaa kwano pula ya matsorotsoro ga e ke e nna teng.

Mathata a selo seo ke gore go bo go ya dirwa culverts tse e leng gore melomonyana ya

tsone e menyennyane. Mathata a golo moo ke gore go bo go ya go tlogelwa tsela gongwe

e ya kwa tlase thata e ya go iphaphatha le lefatshe e feta fa o ka reng go pane kana go
mokgacha e fologela kwa tlase. Go bo go raya gore tsatsi kana paka e pula e tlang fela e

gaketse ya matsorotsoro gone foo tsela ya rona e tlaa bo e tla e fetwa ke metsi, mme fa

gongwe metsi a ba a eme fa godimo ga tsela eo lebaka, malatsi, beke kana dibeke. Fela fa

go nna jalo sekontere se a swa. Sekontere Madam Speaker le o bona ke se moagi wa tsela

jaana, ka fa ba Gaborone City Council o neng o fitlhela ba re bolelela gore nnyaa kana fa

pula e na le seka la re omanya ka gore sekontere se a oboga go raya gore jaanong koo go

ya go nna le mathata. Ke re, ke tsone dilo tse re tshwanetseng gore re di emele ka dinao.

Le bone bana ba rona ba Botswana ba ba dirang mo lephateng le le tlaa bong le emetse

puso re tshwanetse gore re eme ka dinao re tlhomamise gore tiro e ba e dirang, thomo e

ba e dirang ke yone e go tilweng ba e dire. Kana Madam Speaker mo go tlhabisang

ditlhong, mo go swabisang go fetisa ke gore fa gongwe fa o fitlhela ditsela, dikago le

dithoto tsa rona di sa itekanela jaana, go a bo go saenne ngwana wa Botswana yo o neng

a tla a tsamaya le ene yo o agang tsela a re golo fa go siame a tlhatlhoba. Re tshwanetse

gore re tlhomamise gore mo ditseleng tse dingwe tse re bonang di senyegile, Matona a a

lebaganyeng le tsone ditsela ba bo ba setse gompieno ba itse gore tsela ya fa Dikabeya

gatwe e sentswe ke eng.

Tsela e e tswang kwa Martin‟s Drift e e fetang e leba kwa Mogapi fa mekgacheng e

sentswe ke eng. Re seka ra itse fela gore e ne ya senyega ya baakanngwa. We should

know gore what was the root cause so that in the future we do not make the same

mistakes. Fa re ka dira jalo re tlaa bo re itiretse sentle. Re seka ra leba fela le mono, re

lebe le mo mafatsheng a mangwe a a tshwanang Namibia a a nang le mebu e e tshwanang

e re nang le yone ka kwano gone kwa tsela e, e yang go feta teng. Re ba botse re seka ra

tshaba go botsa. Ke gone mo gotweng benchmarking gone moo. E re ba bangwe fa gotwe
ba tsile go boka fa re sentseng teng re gane rona re ye go lebelela re itse gore lona ba

Namibia tsela e le neng le e dira go tswa fa bokete go ya fa bokete ka gore o ka re e

tsamaya mo lefatsheng le le tshwanang le la rona ka kwano la bona matshwenyego e le

eng. Ke belaela gore le bone ba tshwanetse ba bo ba na le an archive e e tletseng of the

information. Re ye go lebelela le kwa South Africa ka gore ditsela tse di tsamayang kwa

mafatsheng a a tshwanang Uppington ka kwa, mo dinageng tsele tsa bo Northern Cape di

tsamaya mo lefatsheng le le sekaka jaaka la rona. Re bone gore ba di dirile jang,

matshwenyego a bone e ne e le eng. We must consult that archive; we should never

reinvent the wheel Madam Speaker.

Lefatshe le la Botswana le senya madi a mantsi reinventing the wheel and we cannot

afford to do that. Jaanong fa go nna jaana Tona, madi a re tlaa go rebolang gore o ye go a

adima a tlaa bo a sologetse Batswana sentle. O tlaa tshwana le Honourable Kedikilwe yo

o neng a bua gore dilo tsa dingwe tse a ipelafatsang ka tsone e rile a le Tona a bona a

dirile jaana, le wena tsatsi lengwe o tlaa bo o bua jalo mo Palamenteng e kana kwa

morakeng wa gago o setse o itapolositse mme o ipelafatsa o itse gore se o se adimetseng

madi e ne e le sone. Le ene Mme Honourable Motsumi a itumele gore o kile a agela

Batswana boswa le Honourable Ramsden a mo eme nokeng a sa mo ema ka fa morago.

Kgang e nngwe e e neng e buiwa fa re itebaganya le go hirwa ga Batswana kana go direla

Batswana ditiro, kana e ne o ka re re kgala Honourable Tshireletso wa Mahalapye East.

Re ne re sa mo kgale e ne e le ntlhanyana fela e khutshwanyane e re neng re leka gore e

seka ya re ka moso ra fitlhela gongwe re buile mo o ka reng ga se gone. Mme o ne a bua

sentle fa a re, rona Botswana re batho ba gender equality. Re dumela gore ditiro dingwe

ga di na bong. Fa e le tiro e e leng gore ga e tlhoke mashetla a a feteletseng e go ka tweng
gongwe e ka palela bomme, mme ba teng bomme ba ba nang le mashetla a a fetang a

makolwane a mangwe. Tota fela re tshwanetse gore re tlhomamise gore bomme ba nne le

seabe mo khirong.

Kana Madam Speaker fa go na le yo o sa itseng gore ngwaga le ngwaga le Botswana go

tsholwa bana ba basetsanyana go feta ba basimanyana o tlaa bo a sa nne mo Botswana.

Madam Speaker, fa go na le ope mo Palamenteng e yo o sa itseng gore all the way from

standard one to form three bana ba basetsana in all those standards ba feta ba

basimanyana ka palo, o tlaa bo a sa itirele sentle. Mme fa e le gore re a dumela gore bana

ba basetsanyana ba tsholwa ba le bantsi go feta ba basimanyana, bogolo jang ka gore

gompieno golo mo gotweng infant mortality re go tlhalefetse, Honourable Tlou le ba

gagwe ba a kganela gore maseanyana a rona a swe a le manyennyane, go raya gore re a

itse gore bomme ba bantsi ka palo. Mme fa re ya kwa ditirong all things being equal, re

ne re tshwanetse go fitlhela bomme ba le bantsi go feta borre. Ga ke re, mme all things

are never equal. Jaanong foo ka rialo le nna ka re e re fa re thama ditiro jalo batho ba

bangwe ba tla ka dingwao tse di sa tshwaneng tsa rona, fa o utlwa gotwe dikompone

dingwe ga di hire bomme jaana go a diragala Madam Speaker gore, fa gongwe kwa ba

tswang teng mosadi kana mme ga a lekana gore a tlhakatlhane le borre mo mekgacheng

go dirwa ditiro, ka segabone ke meila. Mme go raya gore through you Madam Speaker,

Honourable Minister wa tsa madi le Honourable Minister ene yo o yang go dira tiro e, le

tshwanetse gore le itse gore fa re bua le batho jaana bone ba ba tswang kwa ntle re ba

reye re re re na le ngwao e e gakgamatsang kwano, fa e le gore ga e tshwane le ya bone.

Le ba reye le re re na le ngwao e re e tlotlang, e seng e e gakgamatsang. Let me correct

myself. Re na le ngwao e re e tlotlang rona kwano ditiro tse di a tlhakanelwa bogolo jang
ka gore it must be our business gore re itse dingwao tsa batho ba ba tsileng go re neela

madi. Fa o ya go adima madi from a Muslim community o bo o sa itse gore meila ya bone

ke eng o ithatafaletsa botshelo, le ya go tlhola le omanetse ngwao.

Jaanong go raya gore go tswa fela tshimologong fa e le gore ga re a dira jalo mo go e, mo

go tse di tlang e bo e le gore part of your negotiation e bo e le gore le ya go itse gore re

ya go ama tsa tekatekanyo mo ditirong ya bomme le borre tse e leng gore di ya go amana

gape le dingwao gore e re ba re tshololela madi ba a petemetsa jaana, ba bo ba itse gore

mme madi a kwa a yang teng, ka a tlaa bo a sa diriswe ke rona a dirisiwa ke bale

Batswana, a ya go bereka ngwao ya Setswana. A seka ya re a tsile go bereka mo

Botswana a bo a bereka ngwao ya sekoo. Nnyaa, fela fa a simolola a ya go dira ngwao ya

sekoo jaanong foo re simolola go jewa ntsoma.

MR LEFHOKO: Point of elucidation. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Mopalamente wa Gaborone Bokone o raya gone mo gotweng, „Fa e tlotse

molapo ke tlotswana, go nne jalo.'

MR RAKHUDU: Ke a go leboga Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker ke amogela nontsho

e ya se ke se buang gore ee, ba tshwanetse gore ba itse gore fela fa e tlola ke tlotswana.

Mme fa ba sa utlwe ga Setswana re ba bolelele mole ga Sekgoa gore "When in Rome do

as the Romans". Ke gore tsone dilo tse go supa gore batho bangwe ba ne ba ntse ba itse

ngwao tsa bone, le rona re tshwanetse gore re nne motlotlo ka dilo tse di ntseng jalo. Ke

gone mo go tlaa kganelang mo go tweng batho jaanong ga ba hire bomme kwa ntle fa e le

gore gongwe go dupa mo go neng go buiwa ke Honourable Tshireletso gongwe bomme

ba a bo ba sena bodupi. Kana bomme ba ba dupang botlhe ba hirilwe go sele jaanong e le

gore ga ba kake ba tlogela tsa go dupa koo ba ya go dupa ka fa. Mme kwa ntle ga moo re
ne re tshwanetse gore ba tle ba dupe le bone.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Point of elucidation. Ke a leboga mmaetsho. Ke raya bone tota ba

ba ka hirwang, bakgweetsi le maleibara. Ke a leboga.

MR RAKHUDU: Ke a go leboga Madam Speaker. Ntlha e nngwe e e leng gore re

tshwanetse go e lebelela…

                                        MOTION

                                   ADJOURNMENT

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (LT GEN MERAFHE): Madam Speaker, I move that this

House do now adjourn.

                               Question put and agreed to.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 7 pm until Thursday 20th July 2006 at 2.30 pm.

                                Thursday 20th July 2006

                          THE ASSEMBLY met at 2:30 p.m.

                            (THE SPEAKER in the Chair)

PRAYERS

                                          ****

                         QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF LOBATSE STADIUM

MR N. M. MODUBULE (LOBATSE): asked the Minister of Labour and Home Affairs

when exactly the construction of the Lobatse stadium will commence.

MINISTER OF LABOUR AND HOME AFFAIRS (MAJ. GEN. PHETO): Mr

Speaker, it is difficult to determine the exact time on which the Lobatse stadium

construction will commence as asked by the Honourable Member of Parliament for
Lobatse. The reasons being that although the design and other components have been

finalised, we are currently in the process of undertaking environmental impact assessment

survey (EIA) which is likely to take three months to complete.

We are yet to appoint supervising consultants and the matter is currently before the

Public Procurement Asset Disposal Board (PPADB) for the decision. This will be

followed by the tendering process which normally takes one months excluding evaluation

and appointment of the contractor which will be around December this year, and we

expect commencement of construction to be January/February 2007. I however want to

assure the House, Mr Speaker that I am anxious to have all projects scheduled for this

financial year under my ministry to be started as soon as possible. I thank you.

EMPLOYMENT OF CHIEF SECURITY OFFICER AT BOB

MR O. S. MOLEBATSI (TSWAPONG SOUTH): asked the Minister of Finance and

Development Planning:-

               when the Chief Security Officer at Bank of Botswana was employed;

               how many times his contact has been renewed; and

               what plans are underway for the localisation of the post.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF FINANCE AND DEVELOPMENT PLANNING (MR

MLAZIE): Mr Speaker, the Chief Security Officer was first employed by Bank of

Botswana in February 2000. His contract has been renewed twice.

Mr Speaker, the Bank has an active capacity building programme and staff are

continuously developed with a view to localising expatriate held positions. The position

of Chief Security Officer is one of the key positions addressed by the Bank‟s localisation

programme. In addition to the bank‟s schemes of service requirements (of, among others,
a Masters degree in a relevant security area and above average performance), the

appointment of any staff member will take into account prevailing security challenges

facing the financial sector and the Bank, in particular. I thank you.

MR KEDIKILWE: Ke gore tota se se tlhokegang mo tirong e se se thata-thata se mo

sebakeng seno go senang Motswana yo o ka se dirang ke eng?

MR MLAZIE: Mr Speaker, there is a requirement for one to have a Masters degree in a

relevant security area as well as having an above average performance. This is what has

actually caused the delay.

MR SEBETELA: Mr Speaker, will the Minister say to us when the Chief Security

Officer was first engaged in 2000 what was the bank‟s plan to localise this position, was

there any target date at the time and what is the target date as the Minister is answering

today.

MR MLAZIE: Mr Speaker, Bank of Botswana did not have a target date. However what

they have is a localisation plan and what it really means is that as and when they get

somebody who is suitable for the position, they will be in a position to localise.

MR MOLEBATSI: Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke ne ke batla go botsa Tona

gore a jaaka go dirilwe ko Ministry of Minerals, Energy and Water Resources a o emetse

gore motho yo a tshware dingwaga di nna ten a bo a mo dira Motswana.

Sa bobedi a ene e le Tona fa a ne a ka dirwa Minister of Presidential Affairs a o ne a tlaa

hira Mazimbabwe gore ba nne security officers tsa Botswana ko BDF?

MR MLAZIE: Mr Speaker, I am finding it difficult to answer that question because to

start with I am not even a Minister of Presidential Affairs. I do not even understand what

he means gore we are waiting for the gentleman to naturalise because to start with I do
not know whether may be the Honourable Member has got inside information about this

particular issues. If at all he has got information about this particular issue that the

gentleman is planning to naturalise, then that is something else.

HECTORAGE ACQUIRED FROM PEOPLE BY KWENENG LAND BOARD

MR M. E. RALETOBANA (KWENENG SOUTH-EAST): asked the Minister of

Lands and Housing:-

                the hectorage that has been acquired from people by the Kweneng Land

                Board on the strength of the promise that the dependents of the former

                owners of these masimo will be given priority on allocation of residential

                plots by the Mogoditshane Sub-Land Board;

                the number of applicants awaiting allocation under that arrangement; and

                when such applicants can expect to be allocated residential plots.

MINISTER OF LANDS AND HOUSING (MR SERETSE): Mr Speaker, I am unable

to confirm the hectorage of arable fields acquired by the Kweneng Land Board from

people on the promise that their children will be given priority on allocation of residential

plots. I am however aware that the Kweneng Land Board promised some masimo owners

that once they surrender their fields to the land board for village expansion their children

will be given priority in allocation of land even if they would not have been otherwise

entitled to such allocations.

The Kweneng Land Board is currently compiling information that will enable me to

know the total amount of land acquired in Mogoditshane and the surrounding areas.

Mr Speaker, likewise, I am not aware of the number of applications under that

arrangement awaiting allocation and the Kweneng Land Board is compiling information
to this effect. The promise by the Kweneng Land Board to allocate land on this basis was

erroneous. Whenever land is acquired for re-distribution the original allottee is

compensated and the land is planned for various uses for which Batswana will be expect

to apply for and be allocated on first come basis.

Mr Speaker, I therefore do not expect that the Land Board to allocate any land to those

subject to this erroneous practice. I have since advised all Land Boards to stop the

practice of acquiring land from allottees on the promise that they will give allocation

priority to their children.

MR SEBETELA: Mr Speaker is the Minister confirming that indeed the Kweneng Land

Board acquired land from people without any plans to compensate them, as is the normal

procedure in Botswana government?

MR SERETSE: I am not confirming that any land that is repossessed from anybody the

person must be compensated for that, therefore the Kweneng Land Board has got no

power or authority to take land without compensation.

BURS SALARY STRUCTURE

MR N. M. MODUBULE (LOBATSE): asked the Minister of Finance and Development

Planning why up to now the Botswana Unified Revenue Service (BURS) salary structure

for junior officers has not been put in place.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF FINANCE AND DEVELOPMENT PLANNING (MR

MLAZIE): Mr Speaker, at the time of commencement of BURS in August 2004,

Government had already developed an interim high level organisational and pay

structures, which were approved by the BURS Board in October 2004, to facilitate the

recruitment of key senior management personnel, including the Commissioner General
and heads of specialised divisions. The plan was that these key personnel would

spearhead the development of the appropriate BURS organisational and pay structures for

the rest of BURS staff.

However, this work was delayed by lack of internal capacity within BURS and the delay

in the recruitment of the senior management personnel. For example the Commissioner

General was only engaged towards the end of 2005. As a result BURS engaged a

consultant in April 2006 to develop its integrated organisational and pay structures. The

consultant‟s report is expected by the end of August 2006.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

            KWENENG DISTRICT COUNCIL STAFF COMPLEMENT

MR M. E. RALETOBANA (KWENENG SOUTH-EAST): asked the Minister of

Local Government whether he considers the Kweneng District Council to have the

minimum staff complement required to run the business of council satisfactorily given

the high population which the council serves; and if not, what the Minister intends doing

to enable the council to meet the minimum requirements of the population concerned.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT (MR MASALILA): Mr

Speaker, Kweneng District Council has a total staff complement of 2,349. This is made

up of 703 Permanent and Pensionable staff and 1,646 Industrial Class Employees.

In my view the Council is reasonably staffed to run the business of the Council.

I thank you.

BACK PAY FOR BURS EMPLOYEES

MR N. M. MODUBULE (LOBATSE) asked the Minister of Finance and Development

Planning whether measures are in place to ensure that by the time the Botswana Unified
Revenue Service (BURS) salary structure is put in place all employees who were in

employment by January 2006 will receive back-pay.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF FINANCE AND DEVELOPMENT PLANNING (MR

MLAZIE): Mr Speaker, in recognition of the fact that development of BURS pay

structure would take time, it was decided immediately on transfer of the employees of the

former revenue departments, to pay them “responsibility allowance” of 7.5 percent of

their basic salaries until the new salary structure is in place.

The question of back pay will be determined by the outcome of the new pay structure,

which will take into account the responsibility allowance and affordability by BURS.

I thank you.

MR MODUBULE: Mr Speaker, ke ne ke batla gore Tona a tlhalose gore ka jaana e rile

fa BURS e tlhamiwa, gone jaaka a ne a tlhalosa mo potsong ya bone, gore e ne e le

maikaelelo gore batho ba e re ka January 2006 ba bo ba setse ba filwe scales tsa bone tse

disha, jaanong fa ekete go tlaa tsewa tshwetso ke ba ba dirang dikanoko gompieno gore a

ba ka duela go tswa ka January, mabaka e ka bo e le eng ka gore batho bao ba ne ba

solofeditswe gore come January ba tlaa bona dituelo tsa bone ka scales tse di sha?

MR MLAZIE: Mr Speaker, while we answered this question, the fact is that we do not

know where the Honourable Member got the date of January 2006; it is not in our records

at all.

MR SEBETELA: Mr Speaker, will the Minister say whether there is an organisational

structure at BURS as we speaker. And if there is an organisational structure, what

happened to the pay structure because this is not the first time we discuss BURS in this

House. I have asked several questions on this organisation.
MR MLAZIE: Mr Speaker, I did mention in my response that we have a high level

organisational and pay structure, but we do not have a junior level organisational and pay

structure at the moment and the consultancy that I was referring to is actually working on

the Junior level organisational and pay structure. I thank you.

MAINTENANCE OF GRAVEL ROADS IN KWENENG DISTRICT

MR M. E. RALETOBANA (KWENENG SOUTH-EAST): asked the Minister of

Local Government why his Ministry does not consider outsourcing the maintenance of

gravel roads in the Kweneng District as Council does not have the capacity, in both

human and equipment terms, to maintain these gravel roads which link important

institutions such as sub-land boards and clinics in densely populated villages.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT (MR MASALILA): Mr

Speaker, my Ministry has been outsourcing some of its works to private contractors for

many years now. This includes the road maintenance programme in the districts and

Kweneng is not excluded in this.

Examples of roads in Kweneng, which are currently outsourced to private contractors for

maintenance purposes include the internal roads in Thamaga, Mogoditshane and

Molepolole. I thank you.

MR S. KGATHI (BOBIRWA): asked the Minister of Agriculture:-

if there is a change of plan regarding the construction of an electric fence along the

Botswana/Zimbabwe border;

what circumstances have led to his sudden decision to renege on initial plans and

commitments to put up this fence;

whether the Minister does not find it necessary to explain to the people along the border
the reasons and rationale for his decision to withdraw this plan; and,

if the budgetary provision of over P10 million which was provided for this project during

the past two years will be used for an alternative project to serve a similar purpose.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE (MR SIELE): Mr Speaker, due to

many problems encountered in the electrification of the 2.4 metre high non-lethal electric

fence along the Botswana/Zimbabwe border, government has decided to abandon

electrification of the fence.

The main reason for abandoning the electrification was the fact that it was not

functioning as had been expected due to a number of reasons amongst them, vandalism

by humans.

Mr Speaker, I agree with the Honourable Member that communities affected by this

decision should be informed. However, the Honourable Member would be aware that I

visited the area and addressed meetings in seven villages in Bobirwa and Mmadinare

Constituencies. His Honour the Vice President accompanied by myself and other

colleagues when addressing meetings in five villages in the area also touched on the

matter. I also intend to brief Parliamentary Caucus on a number of issues under my

portfolio responsibility including the foot and mouth disease outbreak and its control,

which will touch on the Botswana/Zimbabwe border situation.

Mr Speaker, the amount, which was planned for the electrification of the fence is P8

million and government has since decided that it be used to facilitate increased patrolling

on the fence by security personnel. I thank you.

MR KWELAGOBE: Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, sub question (iii), if I may

quote, says: “ whether the Minister does not find it necessary to explain to the people
along the border the reasons and rationale for his decision to withdraw this plan.” Ke

tsaya gore this plan ke yone ya terata e gotweng e ne e tshwanetse e ka bo e tsentswe

motlakase. Jaanong Tona a re o ne a tsamaya a ya kwa le Vice President…

MR SPEAKER: Supplementary Honourable Member, get to your point?

MR KWELAGOBE: I was developing a supplementary Sir. Tona a ya kwa le Vice

President. Jaanong, potso yame ke gore, ka Tona a re e rile a na le Vice President he

touched on the issue, mme potso yone fa ya re explain. A touch le explain di raya selo se

le sengwe fela?

MR SIELE: Ke a leboga Motlotlegi. Pele ga ke tlhalosa gore e rile fa re le kwa le Vice

President mafoko ao a ne a buiwa, ke tlhalositse gore, e ne ya re fa ke le mo

diphuthegong tsa bolwetse jwa tlhako le molomo kgang eo e ne ya buiwa mme re ne ra

tlhalosa seemo sa yone sa motlakase gore motlakase o ke eng o sa kgone gore o dirisiwe.

Mabaka otlhe a ne a bewa mo dikgotleng tsotlhe tse ke neng ke le kwa go tsone. Ke a

leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR KGATHI: Ke kopa Tona gore a tlhalose gore a tota ke gone ka fa re dirang dilo ka

teng. E re two subsequent budget years go ntshitswe madi gotwe go dirwa diplan tsa gore

re ye go tsenya terata, e le gore maikaelelo a yone tota e ne e le gore go kganelwe foot

and mouth, letsatsi leno tshwetso e bo e fetolwa go bo gotwe re ne ra toucha kgang fa re

ile kwa. A tota le bona e le gore re tlaa kgona go tlhalosetsa setshaba ka tsamaiso e e

ntseng jaana?

MR SIELE: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Kana mabaka jaaka fa

ke a bua, re boletse mabaka a a dirileng gore terata e ya motlakase, motlakase o bo o sa

kgona gore o bereke. Go lekilwe maano otlhe a gore o bereke mme o ne wa pala. Ke sone
se jaanong madi a a neng a beetswe go dira yone tiro e ya motlakase jaanong a isitswe

kwa tirong e nngwe gore go kgonwe gore bone badiredi, mapodisi le masole ba kgone go

tsamaya le terata ba lebetse, ba tlhokometse go bona gore batho ga ba tswe ka kwano

kampo ba tswa ka kwa moseja ole ba tla ka kwano.

MR MOKGWATHI: Ke a leboga. A Tona o ka re tlhalosetsa gore fa a ne a re terata e

ne e tshwanetse go ja P8 million, mme gompieno a kopile supplementaries for the same

tsa P15.398 million, a ga a bone golo mo e le tshenyo, a ka bo a sale a dira ka P8 million?

Tanki.

MR SIELE: Madi a ke buang ka one Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente a P8

million, ka re a isitswe kwa go direng terata e e fa gare ga rona le Zimbabwe. Mme madi

a a neng a kopiwa a Motlotlegi a buang ka one, ke madi a sele, a e leng gore one a

tsetswe ke go ya go aga terata e ntsha le go nonotsha terata go leka go kganela bolwetse

jwa tlhako le molomo gore bo felele fela bo le mo zone seven, bo seka ba tlolela ka kwa

ntle. Ke supplementary e e amanang le madi a sele gotlhelele fela ka ntateng ya bolwetse

jwa tlhako le molomo jo bo tlhagogileng mo bosheng.

MR KGATHI: Ke kopa Tona gore a tlhalosetse Ntlo e e tlotlegang gore, fa go ne go

beilwe diterata di le pedi, di bo di ntshiwa, go tsenngwa terata gotwe go ya go tsenngwa

motlakase, e e leng gore gone jaanong e nosi fela, e digwa ke ditlou, dikgomo tsa

Zimbabwe di tsena go rata le go bona ka yone tsela e, maikaelelo e ne e le eng a go ntsha

diterata tse pedi tse di neng di dira a buffer?

MR SIELE: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Seemo ka fa se ntseng

ka teng kana se fetotswe ke maemo a gompieno a tlhagogo ya bolwetse, le gore go bo go

dirwe maano a masha a go leka go thibela yone kgang e Motlotlegi a e buang ya
gompieno. Ke dilo tse di neng di sa sofelwa ke ope ka ntateng ya gore bolwetse jo bo

tshwanang le tlhako le molomo le malwetse mangwe le mangwe fela, ke seru sa tlholego

se se tlang o sa se solofela.

MR RAKHUDU: Thank you very much Mr Speaker. Regarding the decision not to

continue with the electrification of the fence for whatever reason could the Minister say

whether this was departure from policy or merely just a tactical departure.

MR SIELE: It was not a departure from policy, but it was trying to address the situation

as it is on the ground at the present moment.

BILL

              CONSTRUCTION OF DUTLWE-MORWAMOSU ROAD

                (LOAN RATIFICATION) BILL, 2006 (NO.14 OF 2006)

Second Reading

                                    (Resumed Debate)

MR SPEAKER: When the House adjourned last night, Honourable Rakhudu was just

about to conclude his debate.
MR RAKHUDU (GABORONE NORTH): Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Maabane ke ne ka tshaelwa ke nako fela ke simolola. Tsela e re buang ka

yone e, ke ne ke le mo go bueng ka gore, boleng jwa yone bo a tlhokafala, le fa e ne tota

ntlha eo ke ne ke setse ke e fetsa. Ke ne ke ntshitse dikai tse di amanang magare mo go

tse di ntsi gore bodiredi jwa rona bo tshwanetse gore jone bo tle bo bewe leitlho gore re

tle re nne le tsela e e re siametseng.

Mme se sengwe Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ke gore, jaaka re le lefatshe le le

fatlhogang, tsela e ya Dutlwe-Morwamosu, go tshwanetse go bo go lemosega mo go

thaiweng ga yone gore e tshwanetse gore e tle e tsamaise gareng ga tse di ntsi, kgwebo ya

rona ya selegae. Ke sone se e leng gore gongwe Tona o ka gakgamala fa a utlwa re ntse

re otlelela boleng. Letsatsi leno ke itumelela gore Matona a a tsileng go aga tiro, fa a ne a

sa tshwenngwe ke Tona wa tsa mesepele, ba teng, mmogo ka bobedi. Ka gore, jaaka ke

ne ke ntse ke gatelela maabane Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, yo mongwe o

kopa madi, mme tota tiro e ya go nna mo go bone ba Lephata le le tlaa bong o lebagane le

gone go aga tsela e e ntseng jalo. Mme go botlhokwa thata gore re seka re iphitlhela re

meditse morolarolwana. Kwa ga Mmangwato go na le selo gatwe morolarolwana, ene ga

go jewe golo ga teng. Go go ntlenyane jaana. Ba bangwe okare ba go bitsa tholwana. Fa o

ka go metsa go ka seka ga go tsaya sentle. Mme re gana gone jaaka go ntse go gatelelwa

gore, ga batle gore go tle go nne le bo come back job ba re ba bonang ba diragala mo

ditseleng tse dingwe tse di fetileng tse re nang natso. Ke batla go boelela ntlhanyana e ka

gore Tona tota o teng letsatsi leno, e seng mothusi wa gagwe gore jaaka go letse e rile go

arabega mo kgannye ya ga Honourable Tshireletso ra utlwa fa e le gore jaanong go setse

go fetogile tsamaiso kwa Ministry of Works and Transport. Re sa itse gore jaaka ba ne ba
bua gore a ke phetogo ya policy kana e ne e le go dira fela mo Ntlong go sa re sepe gore

tsone ditsela tse tsa rona tse di teleletelele tse, jaanong fa go baakanngwa go agiwa e

ntsha ka fa thoko, e kgologolo jaanong e ya go tlogelwa. Kana goromente ke motho yo o

berekang gareng ga dilo tse dintsi ka golo mo gotweng policy, mme re a itumela fa re

utlwa gore ga di ye go epiwa. Go raya gore Tona a tle a ipaakantse ka gore e na nna ya re

ka moso ra mmotsa gore a o fetotse policy. Legale rona ga re ngongorege.

Mme e re ke tsamaela go fetsa Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ke re, selo sengwe

se lefatshe la rona le tshwanetseng gore le itebaganye naso malebang le ditsela ke gore, re

fa gare ga lefatshe le la Afrika o o kwa borwa, mme go bo go raya gore ga re akole

letshitshi la lewatle. Jaanong go raya gore, gore re dirisanye le mafatshe a a ka kwa ntle

ka go tsamaisa dithoto mo lwatleng, go raya gore re beile mo mafatsheng a re bapileng

nao. Mme kana mafatshe a re bapileng nao ka a dirilwe ke batho, motho e le selo sa go

ngala, go tenega kana go kgopisega, re tshwanetse gore re nne le maano a a ka re thusang

gore fa e ka re letsatsi lengwe re ntse re riana ra fitlhela e le gore bangwe ga ba a re

thabela, re tlhomamise gore dithoto tsa rona ga di kake tsa tlhoka tsela. Ke a itse gore

goromente wa rona o ntse a buisanya le ba mafatshe a a bapileng le rona gore re bone

ditsela tse re ka ntshang dithoto tsa rona fa go le maswe. Kana le fa go se maswe fela re

bone tsela e re ka ntshang dithoto tsa rona ka bomotlhofo. Ke bua jaana Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ka gore re a itse gore golo fa re na le tumalano e re utlwang go

ntse go buiwa ka yone le ba lefatshe la Namibia. Mme re itse gore ke selo se re ikaelelang

go se dira gore re ye go tsaya bontlha bongwe jwa letshitshi la bone la lewatle. Tona, dilo

tse di batla go akofelwa gore e re re sa ntse re na le sebaka sa go dira jalo, re dire fela

jalo. Mme kana go raya gore tsela yone e e ralalang sekaka e e yang kwa Mamuno, nna
ke eletsa gore e re lefatshe la Botswana le sa ntse le na le bokgoni jwa gore kwa ntle ga

go adima le na le matsananyana a le ka a dirisang, re baakanye re dire tsela e e yang kwa

molelwaneng o o kwa bophirimatsatsi wa Mamuno.

Maikaelelo e le gore re itshwaraganye le letshitshi la lewatle le le ko Namibia le ba

Namibia go setseng go utlwala e le gore ba batla go oketsa botsalano le rona ka go nna re

le dirisa. Mme kana gone foo, go raya gore ga re akanya go dira tsela eo, re dire re itse

gore tsela eo ke e e tsileng go dira gore badirisi ba ditsela ba dithoto le tsa mafatshe a a

bapileng le rona a a tshwanang bo South Africa, fa di tswa ko botlhabatsatsi di ya ko

bophirimatsatsi ba bone e le gore ga go na jaaka ba ka tlhoka go dirisa tsela e e fetang fa

gare ga Botswana. Ke gore re ba ntshe mo ditseleng tsele tsa bone tsa bo Upington ka

gore di kgopo. Mme kana go raya gore re dire tsela fela e e leng gore e tlaa bo e le tse

pedi, dual carriageway, re tsaya sebaka gore re tle re ipaakanye ka mokgwa o e leng gore

re tlaa nna le ko dithoto tsa rona di ka tsamayang teng. Tsela e ya Dutlwe/Morwamosu ke

tsela e khutshwane; e potlana e e leng gore gongwe ga e tshwaragane le e, mme fela se se

nkgakolola gore ke bue jaana ke tsaya sebaka se sa gore re bo re bua ka go dira ditsela.

Ke raya gore ditsela tse tsa rona re dire re itse gore ga se gore re raya gore motho a tle a

taboge ka lebelo le le khutshwane fela go tswa fa go ya go tsena fa bokete. Re raya gore

le kgwebo ya rona ya selegae le dikgwebo tsa mafatshefatshe re tle re kgone go di

dirafatsa. Mme fa e le gore maikaelelo a rona pheleletsong ke gone gore re bo re le mo

seemong se se ntseng jalo, go raya gone gore jone boleng ja tsela e nne ya sennelaruri,

goya-goileng e bo e le gore jaanong re remeletse gone foo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Mme re seka ra lebelela yone e e yang ko bophirimatsatsi fela e, re e feleletsa

mo Mamuno. Ke bua jaana ka gore re a bo re sa ntse re na le madi gompieno a go dira
dilo a e leng gore ga re itse gore ka moso a letlole le tlaa bo le ntse le na madi. Kana go

raya gore…

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: On a point of order, Sir. Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo

tsa Palamente, tsetla e e mo melawaneng e ya rona ya tsamaiso ya bo 47c e tlhalosa gore

e seka ya re fa leloko le lengwe la Palamente le bua, ba bangwe ba bo ba bala dikoranta.

Mme go utlwisa botlhoko gore e re Rraetsho a sa bolo go nna a pora go tswa maabane e

bo e le gore jaanong ba bangwe ba supa go tlhoka theetso ka go bala dikoranta.

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, indeed what Honourable

Matlhabaphiri is saying is in accordance with the Standing Order 47 that deals with the

behaviour of Members not speaking. The behaviour of Members not speaking in other

words, not holding the floor, “Members shall not read Newspapers in the House. While a

Member is speaking all other Members shall be silent” and, indeed, that is not happening.

I sometimes wonder whether what your colleague is saying is of no substance to your

interest and therefore you can discuss something else. If that is the case, why not just

walk out of the Chamber, stay outside and leave those who want to take their work

seriously remain inside the Chamber, rather than staying in here and disturbing the

proceedings of the House especially that we are recording and all this noise comes into

the recording system. It creates a problem for our staff who are going to be doing the

typing out of the tapes as to follow the trend of the debates. Shall we respect our own

rules, Honourable Members; they are yours; you created them and if you cannot respect

your own, what else can one expect you to respect.

MR RAKHUDU: Ke a go leboga, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. O nne o

bolela gore ke bomang wena Matlhabaphiri, ga o tloga, ga o bue gore ke bomang.
Jaanong ke ne ke bua ke itshwarelela ka tsela ya Dutlwe/Morwamosu ke re, kana re

lebeletse tsa kgwebo. Mme fa re dira yone tsela e ya rona e e yang ko Kgalagadi, re e dira

sebedi e e yang gore re tshwaraganya le Mamuno, Goromente wa Botswana o tshwanetse

go ipaakanya gore a itse gore gongwe ba Namibia bone nako eo ba tlaa bo ba sa bone e le

botlhokwa thata ka ko go bone e e tshwaraganang le ya rona e e ka kwano, ka gore

gongwe e tlaa bo e le rona re ntseng mosima wa phika ka marago. Goromente wa

Botswana a bo a ipaakanya gore ga go tlhokafala bone ba ba ka kwa bale ba ditsala tsa

rona fela jaaka Machaena ba re adima madi jaana, jaaka le rona re kile ra adima IMF

madi to invest our reserves tsa rona, re ipaakanye Tona gore re tle re adime MaNamibia

madi ba dire jaaka re dirile ka kwano gore jaanong re bo re na le tsela e e re

tlhamaleletseng. Mme Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, a mantsi a builwe ke

balekane ba me maabane…

MR BATSILE: On a point of clarification. Ke a leboga, Rraetsho Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo le Mopalamente yo o tlotlegang, Rre Rakhudu. Ke ne ke re, Mopalamente o

ka ntlhatswetsa fa gongwe ga ke a mo utlwa sentle. Fa a umaka tsela e e tswelang ko

Mamuno gore a re o e umakisiwa ke gore go na le sengwenyana se re se seegileng teng se

se ka thusang motlha mongwe. Ke a leboga Rra.

MR RAKHUDU: Ke a go leboga, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, nnyaa, nna o

ka re ke a mo utlwa. Ke ne ke re, kana lefa re se mo tseleng eo fa re bua ka kgwebo ka e

tsisiwa ke kgang e ya gore ditsela di tsamaisa kgwebo ya selegae le ya mafatshe-fatshe, fa

re dira tsela jaaka ke re re dire tsela e e yang koo go le golaganya le ba Namibia e e

tsenang ka Mamuno, kana rona go tlaa bo go re tlama gore re nne le yone. Re ya go e

batlela madi mme re tshwanetse re e dire ka mokgwa o e leng gore e ya go oka le ba ba
ka ko ntle ga lefatshe la rona, gore fa dithoto dingwe tsa bone di ya bophirimatsatsi di

tswa bophirima. Batho ba tshwana ba South Africa, fa e le gore ba di isa ko Namibia yo o

kafa bophirimatsatsi ja rona, ga re ka dira tsela fela ya maratwa, ya maemo a ntlha, ke

gore jaaka Rre Sebetela a ne a re he is yet to see a good road mo Botswana, eo e bo e le a

good road. Jaanong re raya gore dithoto tse di tswang ka kwa tse di tona-tona tse di

tsamayang ka tsela go tlaa bo go raya gore di ya go feta ka rona. Ke gore mathata a rona

ke gore gongwe re tlaa dira tsela eo e nna ya maemo a ntlha, ba bangwe e bo e le gore fa

e fologela mo lefatsheng la bone, gongwe jaanong tsela ya bone ga se ya maemo a ntlha.

A ke re bone go tlaa bo go sa ba tshubi kana ba na le letshitshi la bone le e leng gore ba

tsamaisa dithoto ka lone. Jaanong ke gone fa ke reng fa go ntseng jalo, re ipaakanye fa re

akanya gore re dire tsela e e yang ko bophirimatsatsi gore re tle re dire gore ba ba kwa le

bone fa re negoshieite le bone ka ke lefatshe la bone, ba itse gore nnyaa ga le ka ke la re

adima bontlha bongwe jwa letshitshi mme e bo e le gore ga re kgone go le access go tswa

ka ko Botswana. Mme jaanong ra bo re ipaakantse gore ba ka nna ba re ee, nnyaa, re tlaa

dira maybe in twenty years time, it is not a priority. Re ipaakanye gore re tle re ba adime

madi fa go tlhokagala, a ke re one madi re na le one. Re na le one le Tona wa Madi o ka

ntshupela. Jaanong e re re ise re humanege jaana, re etse Machina. Machina gompieno ba

re adima P104 million, rona re bo re itse gore ka e tlaa bo e le telelenyana, re bo itse gore

gongwe re ka nna ra ba adima P300 million mo mading a re a beileng ka kwa a billion tse

dintsi, le fa ke itse gore ga se chwantla e e ntseng mo terankeng. Mme leano le ka dirwa.

Ga ke re ye gore gongwe re ka nna ra palelwa ke go re fa re adima a Machina a tlaa re

turela, re bo re itse gore kana ke rona re shang. Ke rona re shang; re ogola, jaanong re

tshwanetse gore re ipaakanyetse gore re ya go dira jang. Ke sone se ke neng ke se bua
Motlotlegi. Nna ke ne ke utlwa gore wa reng. Tota ke raya gore go nne le maano a a

popota. Fa e le gore ba Namibia ba ka bona gore le bone go ba lekanye gore ba e itirele

ka gore le bone e tlaa ba direla kgwebo all the better.

Mme , Rraetsho, ke ne ke sa ntse ke bua ke re tota a mantsi mafoko a letse a builwe ke

bankane ba me. Re buile ka khiro, re buile ka go nonotsha bagwebi ba rona ba ba botlana

le ba ba golwane, re buile ka go hira bomme, re buile ka gore tsela e e nne ya tlhwatlhwa,

e re fa go dirwa tsela ya metsi fa tsela e go ka bonwang gore e kgabaganya matlolo a

metsi, go dirwe ka botlalo, go seka ga dirwa go le go nnyennyane. Re buile ka gore

materials tse di tlaa bong di isiwa kwa, tse di tshwanang aggregates ka di tlaa bo di tsewa

kgakala, re tlhomamise gore they are the ones meeting the quality e re e batlang e bile go

nkgakolola gore kana fa gongwe re tlaa bo re batla go sila lejwe gongwe re le bona mo

Kweneng, ke gore Tona wa tsa Mafatshe ga a yo gompieno. Mme o ne a le teng kgantele.

Ke gakologelwa gore e rile fa go ntse go dirwa nngwe ya ditsela tse di ka kwa, ga nna le

mogwebi mongwe wa Motswana yo o neng a bile a tswa kwa Ga -Mmangwato a hilwe

gore ene a ye go sila matlapa one a a yang go dirisiwa mo tseleng e, mme o ne a bone

letlapa mo Kweneng. Jaanong fa a re o ya go rulaganya le ba Land Board ya Mokwena

gore ba mme a sile matlapa, ke gore a quarry and then they crash, e bo e le gore jaanong

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente go nna mathata a a gakgamatsang. Jaanong go

raya gore bone boTona ba e leng gore ba ya go aga tsela e re fa re sena go nna re rebola

madi a a kadimo, ba ba yang go aga yone tsela e ba itshwaragane le Tona yo mongwe,

ene yo wa tsa lefatshe gore ba bue le mafelo, Batswana ba e leng gore go na le fa go ka

tsewang majwe a go nna jalo teng. Ka gore ga batho ba gana go ya go silwa maje a le mo

lefatsheng la bone kgantele go raya gore gongwe maje a, a ye go silwa a tsewa kgakala
mo e leng gore go ka ntsifatsa kana ga godisa go tura ga tsela yone e ya

Dutlwe/Morwamosu ka gore ke a itse gore ko e agiwang teng kwa ga go na letlapa le le

ka epswang le le gaufi fa e se o ka epa mmaene o o boteng mo go maswe, go ka tura

jaanong o re o latela that bad rock under the Kgalagadi Sands. Jaanong go raya gore dilo

tse re bo re di ipaakanyeditse gore e seka ya re kgantele tsela ya rona, re tshwanetse go

dirisa gravel ya granite kana e e ntseng jang, ga bo go tlisiwa kalaka kana go tsisiwa

lenyaphiri. Kana dilo tse ke tsone tse di dirang gore e re dikgwedi di ise di ye gope e bo e

le gore jaanong tsela e senyegile, re bo re simolola re e aga sesha gape. Jaanong ka one

mafoko a makhutshwanyane a, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, jaaka o bona e le

gone ke simololang ebile ke fetsa nako e le teng jaana, ke a go leboga, ke mme ba

bangwe ba tle ba e tseye ba e chotlhe.
MR MASWABI (KANYE SOUTH): Ke a leboga, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Ke re, kana se se buiwang fa tota ga se se leele, potso ke gone fela gore a re a

dumela kgotsa ga re dumele gore re reise madi a a ko China? Mme jaanong ke ne ke sa

batle go akgela, ke bona e le gore mongwe le mongwe ke yo e leng gore kgang e, e a mo

tshwenya. Kgang e tona ke gone gore madi a teng a turu; madi a teng mo Botswana ke

eng re ya go adima madi ko China. Ke re, nnyaa, kana go adima madi go a bo go sa reye

gore o a bo o sena madi, ba Finance fa ba le fa jaana ba na le madi ko ba a tsayang teng,

ba na le madi ko ba ka a adimang teng. Jaanong ya China le yone e teng e gone foo

jaanong go raya gore those who negotiated the loan , tota ba bone e le gore jaanong mo

go cheap ke ko China, e re ntswa lefa madi a le teng, mme tota se se cheap se ko China, a

e seng gore re ye go tsaya madi a China. Nna ke bona e le mogopolo fela o o tletseng

sentle o o senang selabe sepe. Ke mang yo o ka go adimang madi a bo a go raya a re

nnyaa, go na le gore o duele gompieno; e re fela jaaka o saena o bo o simolola go ntuela,

ke go fa ngwaga tse tlhano. Kana mphotho; kana jaanong ke gobogobo ya madi. Jaanong

ga go na jaaka o ka tlhoka go ya ko China ba go file five years grace period o bo o ya go

sele, nnyaa, Tona nna ke bona gore o dirile sentle. Go duela gompieno ten years

gompieno go turu thata go na le gore o ye go duela ten years ele morago ga ngwaga tse

tlhano. In other words, the total discounted cash flow ya ten years from now, and ten

years from five years go simologa gompieno, ke efe e e turu? E e turu ke ya gompieno.

Nna ke bona o dirile sentle fela thata, Rra, ga ke itse gore ba re mathata a fa kae.

Jaanong gape go na le grant ya 33 percent. Batho ba ba neng ba buisanya ka selo se rra

ba dirile sentle fela thata. Ga ke tlhaloganye gore mathata a fa kae, a go na le madi

gongwe a penshene, nnyaa nna ke bona o dirile sentle fela thata.
Mma ke tsene mo go sengwe se e leng gore tsela e nna ke bona gore e tla se tsisa. Kana

go ntse go na le batho ba ba ntseng ba dirisa tsela e mo go one ngwaga o e le mmu jaaka

e le mmu gompieno jaana. Mme gompieno e ya go tokafadiwa, in other words, the

vehicle operating costs tsa tsela e di ya go nna ko tlase go na le jaaka di ntse gompieno.

Fa e sena go tsenngwa sekontere go tlaa nna motlhofo mo go bao ba ba ntseng ba dirisa

tsela e. Jaanong go na le gore dikoloi tsa bone di tseye five years, di ya go tsaya ten

years, the normal traffic ya tsela yone e. Secondly, what is going to happen ke gore

jaanong re a itse gore fa o tswa o ya Gantsi kana o ya ko kae, o simolola o ya Kanye, o bo

o ya Jwaneng. Mme gompieno o tlaa bo o betsa fela jaana, mo go rayang gore jaanong

there will be diverted traffic e e leng gore ke yone e e tlaa bong e le ya bobedi e e leng

gore le yone batho ba tlile go ungwa sengwe mo go yone.

Se sengwe sa boraro ke eng, generated traffic. Batho ba e leng gore ba nna ko Dutlwe; ba

nna ko Morwamosu ba ba ntseng ba sa tlwaela go ya teng beke le beke jaanong ba tlaa

tsamaya tsatsi le tsatsi ba ya kwa ga bone. Ke selo se e leng gore se teng.

What is the fourth thing, se tsela e e tsileng go se dira; the development of traffic jaaka

gompieno tsela e agiwa jaana, go raya gore Goromente a simolole a tlhwaafale.

Fa o ka bona north-south road gompieno fa o tswa fa go ya go tsena ko Palapye ga go na

le fa e le sepe se se rileng. Mme kana dilo tse di ntseng jalo di tshwanetse gore di tsise

dilo dingwe tse e leng gore we can turn them into traffic. Goromente a simolole a sege

dipolase along this road gore Batswana ba tle ba benefite mo go yone; ba dise dikgomo

tsa bone, ba e leng gore ba kgona go nosa ba kgone go nosa, boramegala; go tsenngwe

megala mo metseng yone e. Kana ke yone development traffic. Fa o tsaya dilo tse tsotlhe

converting them into traffic you are going to get more loads go feta gompieno, kana ke
selo fela se e leng gore se setona fela thata. Nna ke bona gore go ka dirwa dilo tse di ntsi

tse e leng gore tsela e e ka busetsa. A re simolole re akanye gore jaanong ka gore tsela ke

e e tsile re ka dira jang gore re e nonotshe re tsise dilo tse e leng gore they can add traffic

mo go yone.

Go builwe ka bomatipane; bomatipane fa ke gore Tona mongwe le mongwe kana

Mopalamente mongwe le mongwe fa ke yo e leng gore o eletsa gore o ka bo a ile go

adima matipane gore jaanong a tle go mo hirisa mo tseleng e. Kana, ba bangwe ba ye go

tsaya dilo tse dingwe tse di ntseng jalo, ke selo se se tona fela thata. Mme kana tsela e, le

fa go ntse jalo e le selo se se tona thata, tsela e e agiwa ke motho a le mongwe fela, e na

le critical path. Dilo tse tsotlhe tse dintsintsi tse di gokaganyang tsela e tota di tshwanetse

gore fa go tilwe e ya go fela ka kgwedi ya gore e bo e ya go fela ka jalo, ka yone tsela e e

ntseng jalo. Fa e le gore o sa ntse o ya go batla bomatipane ka kwa go tsile go tsaya

lebaka, fa e le gore o sa ntse o ya go thuba maje jaaka Motlotlegi Rakhudu a ne a bua; e

le gore jaanong wena o sa ntse o ya go buisanya ka tsela yone e ntse e agiwa go tsile go

tsaya lebaka. A dilo tse tsotlhe di wele mo mothong a le mongwe fela yo e leng gore can

coordinate gore tsela e e fele ka nako. Ga ke bone molato ope fela wa gore Tona a bo a

dirile tsone dilo tse.

MR RAKHUDU: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker Sir. Ke ne ke re, Motlotlegi

Maswabi a tlhalose gore nnaare yone fa e ka dirwa ke motho a le mongwe fela without

subcontracting a ene ga a ye go thuba maje, mme fa a ya go thuba maje ga a ye go batla

ko maje a leng teng?

MR MASWABI: Ee, kana rra go na le evaluation e e dirilweng tsela e e ise e agiwe.

Consultants di tsamaile di ya go bona gore gravel e fa kae, ba tsamaile ba ya go bona
gore maje a fa kae. Fa ba lalediwa to bid gore tsela e e rileng jaana ba kaediwa tsone dilo

tse, ga se gore go dirwa gope gape mo gongwe mo go…(inaudible).

MR MOKGWATHI: On a point of elucidation Mr Speaker. Ke a leboga Motlotlegi. Ke

ne ke re, ke tlatse ke re fela jaaka Motlotlegi Rraetsho Maswabi a bua go setse go na le

maje a a bonweng e bile a sedilwe ko Takatokwane a e leng gore e tlaa go tswa fa a bo a

tshelwa. Ke ne ke re, ke mo tlaletse foo. Tanki, ke konteraka ya me.

MR MASWABI: Tanki, kana ke boletse gore nna ke na le ba ba nthusang. Fa ke le fa ke

tsile go thusa Tona mme go na le ba bangwe ba ba nthusang gore jaanong e re le mo

tlhasela jaana le sa mo tlhasele sentle re mo ogole mo go lona. Jaanong ke sone fela selo

se ke se buang fa. Kana rra le gone, ke sa ntse ke boela ko kgannyeng ele ya go adima

madi, re ne re ntse re adima madi re sa ntse re le babotlana; a ko go bo World Bank, ko

go bo KFW, jalo-jalo fela, mme rates di le ko tlase jalo. Jaanong gompieno Machina ke

ba ba re tlhomogela pelo. Motho o letse a buile maabane a re makomanisi, bone ba re

ntseng re re ba maswe, ke bone ba e leng gore ba a re ogola gompieno. A ke tlhe o bone

selo sengwe se se teng gompieno. Jaanong nna rra ke a go akgola ga ke bone le fa e le

sepe se se molato, o adimile madi sentle. Ga ke dumele gore a fa e ka re re adimile madi

ko China ba re file dithuso tse di kana-kana a bone e ka re jaanong ba tla ba re mme tlhe

„motswa kgomo ga se lesilo,‟ a tlhe e re tsela o e dira mme o ntebele bana ke ba. Kana ke

sone se o ka reng se molato, ga go na le fa e le molato ope ke dilo tse e leng gore di tshela

di ntse di diragala, le ka nako ele re ne re adima loans, conditions precedent to the

signing of the loan. Ke dilo tse e leng gore di teng di gone foo. Jaanong ga gona le fa e le

molato ope gore gompieno Machina a bo a le fa. Mme ga ke bone gore a fa ba le fa a tse

dingwe loans tsone a le tsone di tlaa nna jalo, nnyaa di tlaa bo di sa tshwane le ya tsela e,
e tsela is special. Ba ba neng ba e buisanya ba e buisantse sentle, sa ga Tona ke gore a e

saene mme fa a sena go e saena a bo a tla ko go rona gore jaanong re e rurubatse sengwe

le sengwe se bo se tsamaya sentse. Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: I hope we can take the queue from Honourable Maswabi‟s

presentation. Sometimes they are right in saying silence is golden, he had remained silent

for the last two weeks and the moment he stood up to speak he spoke very briefly and up

to the point, dealing with the subject matter. Thank you very much Honourable Maswabi.
ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT (MR MASALILA): Ke a

leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ke lebogela go bona sebaka se sa gore ke

eme mokaulengwe nokeng gore madi a a a kopang, a a go ya go aga tsela ya Dutlwe e e

botlhokwa a neelwe tetla ya gore a bone thulaganyo ya go nna jalo. Jaanong , bagaetsho,

ka ke leboga gore go dirilwe jalo ke tlaa re ka ke eme ka dinao jaana ke leke go tsenya

sele le sele mme ke seka ka tswa mo tseleng. Re lebogela Ministry wa Works and

Transport ka fa o dirang ditsela ka teng. E rile ka dingwaga tsele ga nna le tlhotlhomiso

ya gore ditsela tsa rona tse e leng gore goromente wa legare o ka di tlhokomela di boleele

bo kae. Mme ka nako yone eo go ne ga fitlhelwa e le gore di 8,761 ka Road Maintenance

Study. Mme sale go tswa gone foo ba setse ba dirile 6,872 ba di tshela sekontere, ke gore

basaletswe fela ke 1,889 gore ba bo ba wetsa tiro eo mo e leng gore ke sengwe fela se e

leng gore se botlhokwa, ba e leng gore ba kile ba nna mo lefatsheng la Botswana fa ba

boa kwa ba gakgamalela ditsela ka fa di tlhabolotsweng ka teng ka bofefo, mme e le gore

ke one Ministry wa Works and Transport mo tirong ya bone e e botlhokwatlhokwa e kana

ba na le bomonnaabone. Monnaabone mo ditseleng ke khansele ka gore ka thulaganyo

yone ya Road Maintenance Study, e ne e lebile gore tse di tlhokomelwang ke goromente

yo motona ditsela ke dife tse di tlhokomelwang ke khansele ke dife. Mme ka nako yone

eo go ne ga fitlhelwa e le gore dikhansele tsotlhe fa di kopanye di ne di tlhokomela

ditsela tse di kanaka 9,074 kilometres, tse e leng gore ke ditsela tse di neng di

tlhokomelwa ke khansele. Ditsela tseo di setse di oketsegile go tswa mo go ene 9,000

gompieno ke P16,317. Mathata a a leng teng ke gore dikhansele ga di na bokgoni jwa go

dira ditsela tse. Mme fa re itumelela ka fa ba Works and Transport ba dirang ka teng

jaana ka ntlha e nngwe re rapela gore a tlhe ba lebe bomonnaabone, dikhansele, gore
ditsela tse e leng gore khansele e a di tlhokomela tse e leng gore di dirisa dikoloi tse

dintsi goromente o motona a nne a di tsaya mo dikhanseleng a di tlhokomela a oketsa

tsone tsa 8,000. Sale e nna 8,761 ga e ise e ko e oketsege. Re kopa gore gongwe ke nako

ya gore fa jaaka ba bona e le gore ba a kgona jaana gongwe ba tlaa leba dikhansele

gongwe ba tsaya tseo tse e leng gore di a ba imela. E le kopo e e leng gore motho o ka

dirisa yone nakwana e gore a e huhumetse.

E nngwe temana e ke batlang go bua ka yone ke gore kana gompieno jaana re bua ka

Batswana gore ba eme ka dinao ba nne le seabe mo tirong e e ntseng jaana. Mathata a a

sa ntseng a le teng ke a thulaganyo ya the subcontracting. Ke nako ya gore goromente,

kana ke wa Works, a ko a dire mokwalo, a contract yone e e ka dirisiwang when you

subcontract. Ko ntle ga jalo dikonteraka tsa Batswana ka bontsi di a tsiediwa. Ba newa

ditiro gore ba di dire ka gore fa o sa ntse o kopa o bolailwe ke tlala ga go kgathalesege

gore tsone ditumalano tsa reng, o amogela fela tiro. Fa o sena go wetsa tiro jaanong fa go

tla dituelo o fitlhela e le gore dikonteraka tse di nnyennyane di a tsiediwa tota. Fa go twe

ke na le cases tse e leng gore go twe we want to subcontract motho a bo a re nnyaa ke

tlaa dira tiro yone eo, fa a sena go e dira jaanong fa a tla go duelwa ga a duelwe sentle.

Ga a a ka a bona ko tshimologong ka gore o ne a itlhaganetse gore gongwe fa ke ka botsa

dipotso o tloga a re nnyaa ga ke go neele tiro.

MINISTER OF WORKS AND TRANSPORT (MS MOTSUMI): Ke kopa tlhaloso

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Ke kopa mokaulengwe gore a tlhamalale sentle e bile a bue se e leng gore e

tlaa bo e le boammaaruri jwa subcontracts. A a re ba tsaya ditiro ba sa lemoga gore ditiro

ke bokae ba ya go duelwa jang ka gore ba a bo ba tshwerwe ke tlala, a jaana ba saena dilo
ba sa di bala? A mme fa e le gore ba dira jalo rona re ka ba namola jang? Ke a leboga

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR MASALILA: Se ke se buang ke gore tota e seng botlhe, go na le ba bangwe. Ke

raya gore nna le ofisi ya ga Tona re ntse re thusa batho kwa go tswa ko kgaolong ba e

leng gore ba ne ba filwe yone the subcontract. Fa ba sena go aga, kana e ne e le matlo, fa

ba weditse jaanong fa go tla ko dituelong go a twe nnyaa ga re ise re ko re rialo, ka gore

ba ne ba dumela fela ka gore ba batla madi. Jaanong ke yone e e leng gore ke bua ka yone

gore gantsinyana ba bangwe ba tsena mo mathateng, a gore kana fa o ka botsa dipotso o

tloga o re ehe gongwe ga o batle tiro ke tlaa batla o sele.

MR MABILETSA: On a point of elucidation Mr Speaker. Ke tlhalosetse Tona mme e

bile ke tlatsa mafoko a ga Mothusa Tona yo o tshwereng floor gore…

MR MOATLHODI: On a point of order Mr Speaker. The Honourable Member holding

the floor cannot say ke tlhalosetse Tona. He cannot have access to the Minister because

the Minister is not holding the floor. Honourable Masalila is the one holding the floor..

MR SPEAKER: You stood up on a point of elucidation, on the issues that were being

raised by Honourable Masalila, just deal with that.

MR MOATLHODI: Absolutely.

MR MABILETSA: Ke dumalana le Motlotlegi Mothusa Tona Masalila gore go ntse fela

jalo. Le nna ke kile ka nna le dikgang tse e leng gore rakonteraka yo o neng a

subcontractile, dikonteraka tse di tona tse di bonang multimillion contracts tsa ga

goromente, tenders, fa ba setse ba dira ditiro ba hira dikonteraka tse tsa rona tsa

Batswana. Ba ba hira gore ba dire ditiro tse di tshwanang le tsa bo brick laying jalo-jalo.

Mme rates tse e leng gore ba di negoshieita le bone they squeeze them down ka tsela e e
leng gore fa a ya go fetsa yo e leng ene the subcontract ga a tswe ka sepe. Ke gore a

felela fela mo bahiring fela; go hira maleibara le baaginyana fela ene ga a tswe ka sepe,

rre o bolelela ruri.

MS MOTSUMI: Further clarification Mr Speaker. Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker,

ke ne ke kopa bakaulengwe gore kgang e ba e buang le fa e le gore e na le boammaaruri a

ke e bewe sentle. Fa go bewa go twe batho ba ya go saena ditumalano ka gore ba

tshwerwe ke tlala honestly who will take us serious, gore ra re re mo dikgwebong mme o

a go saena o sa utlwa? Ke ka bo ke amogela Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, fa

mokaulengwe a ka bo a bua ka thuto e re buang ka yone gore go thuswe go rutwe batho, e

seng fela gore re bo re e baya mo Palamenteng re re those who subcontract ba saena dilo

ko morago motho o lemoga gore ga se gone, nnyaa le nna ga ke ka ke ka itse gore ke ka

ba thusa jang.

MR MASALILA: Ke a leboga Tona. Kana mathata gongwe e ka nna the language

problem, e le gore gongwe ga ke e tlhalose sentle. Mme fela nnete e e sa jelweng pheko,

ke dirisa this forced language… Kana go botlhokwa ka gore jaaka e le gore re batla gore

go nne le dilo tsa bo joint venture gape go nne le tiro ya gore fa boradikonteraka ba ba

madi-madi ba filwe ditiro ba lebe Batswana ba ba fe ditiro.

Gone go botlhokwa gore re ba babalele ka gore ba jewa ntsoma, e seng botlhe. Ba jewa

ntsoma, ba a tsiediwa, ga ba tswe ka sepe mme ba dirile tiro ka botlalo. Jaaka mongwe a

ne a bua gore le fa konteraka e fentswe ke mongwe, ke ka se ka ka mmala ka leina, mme

fa a tsamaya mo tseleng o tsile gore go bereka Batswana bone ba ba neng ba bida mme ba

se ka ba fenya dikonteraka tseo, ke bone ba ba dirang tsela yone e. Mme gantsinyana fa e

le gore o mo lebelong la go batla tiro go twe tlaa o dire fa, kana o tshaba le go botsa
dipotso tse di ntsi o akanya gore o tloga a re nnyaa wena go lebega o kare ga o batle tiro,

a bo a tsaya o sele.

MR LEFHOKO: Ke kopa tlhaloso. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente,

ke a leboga Mopalamente wa Nkange. Ke re, ke a go utlwa e bile ke dumela tota gore go

na le ba dikonteraka tse di potlana ba e a reng ba kopile ditiro to subcontract ba jewe

ntsoma. Fela ke sa tlhaloganyeng sentle teng, fa ke kopang gore o wele o bo o ropame

jaaka nta ya motati, ke fa o reng ba thuswe, gore re ba thuse ka tsela e e ntseng jang? A re

ye kwa dipuisanyong tsa bone, a re ba balele dikonteraka, a re ye go bala le bone re le

puso? Ke batla gore re dire sentle. Must we do the calculations for them?

MR SPEAKER: Gone Honourable Member, re tseyeng gore kana the issue at table is

not about road construction or any other construction for that matter but the ratification

of the agreement with China Company or bank. That is really the issue. A re se kang tlhe

ra bua se re sa tshwanelang go se bua, se tlaa buiwa ka nako ya sone. A re bueng ka bill.

MR MASALILA: Bagaetsho, mmang ke wele ke tle ke tswe mo go yone. Mme kana

golo fa we are talking about policies, it is very important. Kana go ne go tsogile modumo

fa go twe a re itumelela gore madi a a kanakana go bo go tla go dira konteraka ya China

Batswana ba sa tsene gope. Mme Batswana ba ka tsena when subcontracted, ke gone fa

ba ka tsenang teng, it is a policy issue. Se ke se buang jaaka mokaulengwe a ne a botsa ke

gore gongwe goromente fa a ka tsaya matsapa to develop a standard subcontract

agreement e e leng gore gongwe e ka leka go babalela gore ba ba tlang ba hira ba

bangwe, borakonteraka ba ba nnyennyane ba Batswana, ba bo ba ka dirisa yone, gore ba

se ka ba wela fela ba tloga ba iphitlhela ba …

MR MABILETSA: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker. Ke ne ke re, a Motlotlegi
Masalila o itse gore batho ba ba tshwanang le diagente le architects ba na le fees tse e

leng gore jaaka o bua, they have been determined go le gale ke standards tse di rileng.

Fela jaaka o bua gore fa go nne le standards and agreements you are proposing tse di ka

thusang these small subcontractors gore ba kgone gore when they negotiate go itsewe

gore ba ba fang subcontractor ba se ka ba felela ba ba pinyeleditse with low rates tse di

dirang gore ba felele ba latlhegetswe. A o itse selo seo?

MR MASALILA: Tota jaaka mokaulengwe a bua, o a nkutlwisisa gore ka reng. O utlwa

gore ka reng. Kana e tlaa bo e le go leba Batswana gore re ka ba thusa jang. Jaaka motion

o sa ntse o le mo tseleng jaana, ke nngwe ya dilo tse e leng gore di ka thusa gore re thuse

Batswana gore ba nne le seabe, ba bone sengwe. Nngwe ya dithuso e ka nna gore go

dirwe tumalano e e leng gore e ka ba thusa, gongwe e le guidelines fela tsa gore gongwe

go fiwa tiro, charges e ka nna tse, le fa e le gore gongwe ga e ka ke ya nna tsone tse e

leng gore e tlaa nna konokono. Mma ke tse mo go yone, e tlaa lala e ntsense mo

mathateng.

Jaanong ke tsena mo go e nngwe ya supervision (tlhokomelo). Bagaetsho, tota ke nnete

gore go tshwanetse gore sengwe se dirwe. Kana se e leng gore se a diragala ke gore, fa re

le goromente jaana, fa tsela e dirwa jaana, the supervising contractor ga e tle go nna ba

ministry wa ga Tona, go tlile go hirwa batho ba sele ba ya go dira tiro ya gagwe. Se e

leng gore se botlhokwa ke gore bangwe ba bone e seng botlhe, go lebega e le gore ka

tsela nngwe ba dumalana le borakonteraka ba ba agang tsela kana ba ba dirang tiro. Dilo

dingwe tse di sa dirwang sentle di bo di tlodisiwa matlho. Jaanong se re se direlwang e bo

e le gore ga se tseye lebaka se ise se senyege. Ke tsone dilo tse eleng gore o ka bona gore

di a tshwenya. Fa ke se na go bua jalo gape, ke lebagana le bone Batswana bagaetsho,
gore le rona Batswana go tshwanetse gore sengwe …

MR RAKHUDU: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker. Rraetsho, ke a go leboga. Ke

ne ke re, Tona Masalila ntlha e a e buang e fa e le gore ke mo utlwa sentle, gongwe o tlaa

e gatelela, ke ntlha e e botlhokwa. A ke go utlwa sentle rra, a o raya gore ka gore bone ba

ba tlaa bong ba tlhokometse, project managers, a gongwe o raya gore Tona yo o yang go

aga tsela e, a lebelele mo ditsong tsa gagwe a bo a itlhokomolosa botlhe ba ba ntseng ba

mo neela ditironyana tse di sokameng tse?

MR MASALILA: Kana ke yone tiro e re tshwanetseng gore re e dire yone e, fa e le gore

motho ga a a dira tiro sentle o mo romile, fa o na le mosepele a tla a re ke batla go

rongwa, o mo raya o re nnyaa wena ke a go itse, go siame mma ke rome ba sele. Fa o dira

jalo o mo ruta batho, o mo ruta lefatshe gore a tle a itse gore fa a romilwe o tshwanetse

gore a dire tiro ka botlalo.

Ke ne ke sa ntse ke re rona Batswana ka borona bagaetsho, go tshwanetse gore tota go

buiwe le rona gore fa motho a filwe tiro a e dire e wele. Rona ba Local Government ga re

bo bone boroko, e le gore with regard to this empowerment ya Batswana, re ne re leka go

neela Batswana dikonteraka tsa go aga classrooms le tse dingwe mo lephateng la thuto.

Mme re na le mathata gore madi one a a dira, mme classrooms ga re di bone ka mathata a

gore dikonteraka tse e leng gore re a di hira, fa gongwe ga ba wetse tiro. Re sa ntse re na

le hostels tsa Mantshwabisi, e setse e le six years di agiwa mo e leng gore fa o ka leba

kwa mading, the cost overruns, ke madi a a seng kanaka sepe. Mme e le gore re ne re

swela fela gore ka gore ke Motswana. Nnyaa bagaetsho, a re ko re kgalemelwe. Ke ka a

fa sekai fa, I have got statistics. E rile ka ngwaga wa …

MR MOKGWATHI: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker. Ke a leboga Motlotlegi
Rraetsho Masalila. I think it is not fair gore o bo o re fela ka gore e ne e le Motswana

because there is documentary proof gore khansele ya Kweneng has to blame, not

necessarily him alone. Ke a leboga.

MR MASALILA: Ke na le bosupi jwa gore go ntse jaaka o bua, gore ba mmogo ka gore

re ne ra ya kwa arbitration. Re ne ra tewa ga twe boang le ye go leka go dirisanya, mo go

supang gore rotlhe re ne re le molato. Mme kana motho yo o tshwanetseng gore a tshabe

gore leina wee ke rakonteraka, a itse gore fa ke fetsa tiro e, ke tshwanetse gore ke fiwe e

nngwe. Jaanong, fa o sa babalele leina go raya gore fa o fetsa tiro, ga o na go tlhola o

fiwa tiro e nngwe gape. Kana re leka gore dikhansele jaanong di abelane information

gore go itsewe gore yo re kile ra mo hira yo, a se ka a wetsa tiro, fa a tendarile koo ba re

nnyaa, re go utlwaletse rra, wena re tlaa go beela fa thoko. Ke go itshenyetsa. Jaanong, ke

ne ke sa ntse ke re ke na le statistics. Ka ngwaga wa 2004, we had 96 contractors tsa

bana ba rona which defaulted, ba sa fetse ditiro, ba tlogela. E rile ka 2005 tsa nna 42. Re

ne ra nna le diphuthego le ba association ya baagi, Tsa Badiri. Le bone ba setse ba

dumela gore kana jaanong mathata go lebega e le gore ke madi a go tweng mobilisation.

Fa o a ntsha fela, motho fa a a tshwara o ile. Jaanong, a re ko bagaetsho re ba kgalemele

bana ba, ke bana ba rona ka re batla gore ba nne le seabe mo ditirong tsone tse.

MR MABILETSA: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker. Nna ke ne ke re, ke sa

ganetsanye le dipalo tseo tsa gago, gongwe go botoka o tshwantshanya. O re bolelele

dikonteraka tsa batswakwa kgatlhanong le tsa Batswana tse le tsone di paletsweng ke

ditiro re tle re wele sentle.

MR MASALILA: Kana fa ke ne ke sa ntse ke bua ka tsa Local Government. Mongwe o

kile a re raya a re, ke re ke batla international passport, a re nnyaa, lona ba dikgaolo le di
isa kae ka gore ke go senya dipampiri fela, lona le ya kwa dikgaolong. Ga le tlhoke

internatinal passport, ke e e batlang batho ba ba yang kwa mafelong a a ka kwa ntle.

Jaanong, rona re bua ka dikhansele, ka fa e leng gore re ne re leka go thusa dikonteraka

tsa Batswana ka teng. Ke sone se e leng gore ke bua ka sone se. Ga ke ba nyatse, mme a

ba kgalemelwe.

Bagaetsho, ka one mafoko a, ke ne ke emela fela gore ke latlhele one mantswenyana a.

Fa o bona ke araba Tona Motsumi sentle jaana, ke sa ntse ke na le morero wa gore ke sa

ntse ke tlaa ya go suga tlhoro kwa go ene ke mo kopa gore a ga a ka ke a tsaya ditsela tse

mo dikhanseleng. Jaanong ke tshwanetse gore ke mo arabe sentle.

MR BATSILE: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente le Motlotlegi Tona yo o mphileng sebaka. Ke ne ke re, mo

ntlheng ya bofelo e rre a neng a digela ka yone, a le jaaka fa re bua a re go kgalengwe re

thusanye bana ba rona ba dikonteraka, a o lemoga gore le mo nakong e dikonteraka tse le

tsweletse le le khansele le ntse le di neela ditiro mme di palelwa, le di busetsa ka tshenyo

ya madi a Batswana?

MR MASALILA: Kana bagaetsho, re bolawa ke sone seo sa gore re bo re re gongwe ba

ka ithuta sengwe fa ba paletswe maloba. Mme go sa ntse go dirwa fela jalo, le gale re bua

le bone bana ba rona ba dikhansele. Kana ke sone se ke neng ke re, we are developing

information ya gore fa batho ba tendarile fa, ba botse dikhansele tse dingwe gore a yo le a

mo itse ba ise ba mo neele ka gore fa gongwe o fitlhela e le gore o siile kwa, o ya go

tendara kwa a bo a fiwa ditiro mme kwa a paletswe. Ke sone se e leng gore fa re tsena mo

seemong sone seo, re tlaa nna le taolo ya gore nnyaa wena re setse re go utlwaletse, o tlaa

re itshwarela, re tlaa leka ba sele.
Ka mafoko ao, ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente go mpha nakwana e.

Ke a leboga.
MR MATLHABAPHIRI (MOLEPOLOLE NORTH): Ke a leboga Motlotlegi

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Mme ke simolola ka go itsese gore fela jaaka

bakulengwe ba ba buileng pele ga me, ke emela go amogela se Motlotlegi Tona a se

beileng Ntlo e e tlotlegang e pele. E ne e kete mafoko a a tshwanang le a a neng a buiwa

ke Mopalamente Rre Maswabi a ka re mo dikoranteng a nna ditlhogo. Ke gore a

tsenngwe mo tlhogong ba ko ba supe fa e le gore motho o a tle a bue jalo, a bue

boammaari ka bontle jo a bo buileng ka jone. Mme kana gantsi go ratwa thata go

tsenngwa dikgang tse di kgalang. Fa e ne e ka re Motlotlegi Rre Maswabi a ema a bua, a

bua ka go kgala mo go gakagamatsang, e ne e ya go nna tsone headlines. Mme jaaka a

buile jaana, a buile ka kitso jaaka e bile e le an economist, motho yo o tswang kwa

lephateng la Ministry of Finance and Development Planning, o a bo a tlaa se ke a tsewe

tsia.

Mme ke lebile dintlha di se kaenyana Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Mma e re santlha ke re, kana Tona wa ditiro o ne a bua gone mo Ntlong e e tlotlegang e a

bua gore, e tlaa re fa tsela e e tswang kwa Dutlwe e ya Morwamusu e dirwa, go bo gape

jaanong go dirwa e e tswang mo Molepolole e ya Letlhakeng. A bua gone mo Ntlong e e

Tlotlegang e.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wa re go bua mang?

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Tona. A ba a boa a bua gape gore mme e tlaa re yone eo fa e

dirwa e e tswang mo Molepolole e ya Letlhakeng go bo go nna le e e tlaa bong e

dikologo motse wa Molepolole. Jaanong ke dumela ka botlalo gore ga a nke a tswe

motlhanka wa lefoko la gagwe. E tlaa re jaaka gompieno jaana tsela e e le gore go

rebolwa Tona gore a ye go konetela a dire ditumalano tsa yone a bo jaanong a itse se a se
buileng mo Ntlong e e Tlotlegang e.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O di nyalana jang?

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Ke di nyalana ka e ne ya re o nkaraba wa di nyalanya. O

araba teng gone mo Ntlong e. Jaanong ke re ke lone lebaka la ntlha le ke tlatsang …

MINISTER OF WORKS AND TRANSPORT (MS MOTSUMI): Ke kopa tlhaloso

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ke ne ke

re a mokaulengwe o ka rurifatsa gore a re project e go buiwang ka yone e e kopelwang

madi kwa China e nyalana jang le e a buang ka yone ya Molepolole?

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, e ne ya re

re bua mo Palamenteng nna ke ne nako ya teng ke bua ka tsela ya Letlhakeng-

Molepolole, Tona ka bo ene a ba a ya gore maikaelelo a me ke le Tona ke gore e tlaa re

jaanong fa ke dira tsela e e tswang mo Dutlwe e ya Morwamosu e bo e bile gape jaanong

ke baakanya e e tswang mo Molepolole e ya Letlhakeng mme e bile e na le by-pass. A

bua gone mo. Jaanong ke di nyalanya fela jaaka ene e ne ya re ke bua ka tsela e ene a ba a

di nyalanya. Mme e bile ke di nyalanya ka go lebogela gore nnyaa, e le ruri jaanong tsela

ke e e betlilwe ya gore Tona a tle a dirafatse se a se buileng mo Ntlong e e Tlotlegang. Ke

lone lebaka la ntlha le ke tlatsang molao-kakanyetso o.

Sa bobedi…

MR REATILE: Point of elucidation. Ke ne ke re ke lebogele Motlotlegi Mopalamente

Rre Matlhabaphiri. Mme ke re gongwe ke supe fela gore nnyaa, mme ka fa speech sa ga

Tona tsatsi leo se neng se ntse ka teng o ne a supa gore ngwaga e ya madi he will design

tsela ya Molepolole-Letlhakeng e seng go e dira.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Nnyaa, kana rra wena o bua se o se buang. Nna ke bua se ke
se buang se ke reng fela jaaka Tona a buile jalo foo, o buile jalo gone mo Ntlong e. A bua

a bolela gore o tlaa re fa a dira tsela eo a ba a dira e. Mabaka a teng a Tona a a fileng o ne

a re kana jaanong tsela e fa e dirwa e tlile gore jaanong mo lobakeng le le khutshwane

batho ba ba yang Gantsi, Shakawe, le Namibia ba tlile go eletsa go feta ka Molepolole go

kgaola mosepele, mme go kgona gore e re ba dira jalo ba direle mo ditseleng tse di

botoka. O ne a e baya ka tsela yone eo ka jaana le rona re ne re lemoga gore ka

boammaruri e tlile gore fa tsela e e fela ya Dutlwe-Morwamosu bangwe ba eletse go feta

jaana go kgaola mosepele. Kana bagaetsho gompieno jaana fa o tswa fa o ya Shakawe…

MS MOTSUMI: Ke kopa tlhaloso. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ke ne ke re

mokaulengwe ke tlhaloganya go ikopela ga gagwe mme ke ne ke mo kopa gore a

farologanye kgang ya tsela ya Morwamosu ya madi a re buang ka one le kgang ya

Molepolole-Letlhakeng. Dilo tse a di bolelelang ke boammaruri Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo

gore traffic e tlaa gola, mme kgang ya gore a ba a re go tilwe fa e e dirwa le yone e e tlile

go dirwa ga a bue boammaruri.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, fa motho a

tswa motlhanka wa lefoko la gagwe ga ke batle go iphecha nae ka gore Tona o a itse gore

lefoko le a le buang la bofelo le a reng ga a bua jalo ga se boammaruri. E tlaa re mo

lebakeng ke tlaa tla ke mo supetsa gone mo Ntlong e gore o buile jalo. Fa e le gore ene e

rile fa mothusi wa gagwe a araba potso e a ba a ne a sa e rerisanya le ene ga se lebaka la

me. Nna fa ke re Tona ke raya lephata, mme fa e le gore Tona o batla gore ke re e ne e

arabiwa ke mothusi wa gagwe ke tlaa rialo ka gore potso e ga e a botswa gangwe fela, e

boditswe gantsi. O tshwanetse a tlhaloganye jalo.

Mme Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente kana nna se ke se buang ke gore
ke tlatsa molao-kakanyetso o mme lebaka lengwe la ntlha ke lone leo.

MR RAKHUDU: Point of elucidation. Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Nna kana fa go nna jaana o fitlhela ke sa rate go tsietsega, Tona a riana mme

yo mongwe a gana. Ke kopa go nopola fela to elucidate something Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR SPEAKER: O nopola eng, mo go eng?

MR RAKHUDU: Fa o ntetlelela ke nopola speech sa ga Tona Lesego E Motsumi,

Minister of Works and Transport to the Committee of Supply – Organisation O90006

March 2006 Page 21, Paragraph 53. “In addition, the design of the Lobatse-Ramatlabama

road, Molepolole-Letlhakeng road and design of dualling of Gaborone-Boatle-Lobatse

road will be undertaken during 2006/2007 financial year.” Design not construction.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Ke lebogela Motlotlegi, kana o ema sentle. Fa ke a re ke bua

ka re Committee of Supply ke rile potso. Ke rile Tona o ne a araba potso mo Palamenteng.

Jaanong ga ke itse gore e Mopalamente Rakhudu a buang ka yone ke efe, e bile fa e le

gore o tlaa e reka, reka ya Gaborone rra o seka wa reka ya Molepolole-Letlhakeng ka

gore potso eo e arabilwe gone mo Ntlong e e Tlotlegang.

MINISTER OF EDUCATION (MR NKATE): Point of elucidation. Mr Speaker I very

much thank the Member for Gaborone North for his intervention and I would like the

Honourable Member holding the floor since he has really dwelt on this particular point at

length to perhaps ask for a break so that this information can be provided. I have no

recollection of it but I cannot claim to recollect everything that is said in this House. This

is a very serious matter where a Ministry comes here, makes a statement; we are going to

do this and this and then goes and says we never said so, is one thing to say we thought
we might but now we see we cannot. But to say we did not say so is a serious matter, and

it is a serious indictment against the Ministry. I would like you Mr Speaker to help us get

to the bottom of this thing.

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Kana mme gone bagaetsho that is not really the subject

matter. Se Rre Matlhabaphiri nna ke utlwang a se bua ke gore as it might have been said

in this House, a e re jaanong go bonwe madi a go boe gape go batlwe a mangwe a tle a

dire the other part of the same road. There is no issue e e ka dirang gore gongwe the

Parliament can adjourn go ye go batliwa information jaaka e kete re mo court, and

incidentally we are not even discussing the subject matter. Se re se buang rona fela ke

madi a ratification. Jaanong fa e le gore ke sengwe se e leng gore Palamente e dumela

gore se ka phatlalaletswa Palamente just the argument between Rre Matlhabaphiri le

Mme Mma Motsumi ke selo se ke tsayang gore it is not necessary.

MINISTER        OF     FINANCE        AND      DEVELOPMENT             PLANNING         (MR

GAOLATHE): Point of clarification. Thank you very much Mr Speaker. Irrespective of

what may have been said in the past, I would like to address the issue because the debate

cannot continue in that …. this issue is concerned. What is important is that the

upgrading of the Molepolole-Letlhakeng road is in National Development Plan Nine

(NDP9). If all things go according to plan, the Ministry of Works should start on that

road before the end of the next financial year. It is already in the plan. Thank you.

MR SPEAKER: Proceed Honourable Matlhabaphiri, I take you are now aware gore

concern ya gago is being taken care of.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: E tlaa re ka break ka ke tlile go bua go fitlhelela break, ke

tlaa tsamaya ke ya go tla le karabo e Tona a e arabileng, ke tlaa ya go e senka kwa
library, mme ke tlaa tla ke bua gone fa. Mme ke batla gore nako e ke tlaa bong ke bua fa

e le gore o tlaa bo a arabile potso jalo a eme mo Palamenteng a kope maitshwarelo le mo

sechabeng sa Botswana gore e re ke bua a nkganetsa a ba a re ke bua fela, mme a ne a

araba nna mo Palamenteng.

Mme ntlha ya bobedi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente e ke reng ke tlatsa

mogopolo o o beilweng fa pele ga rona ke gore tsela e e ya go khutshwafatsa go ya kwa

mafelong a mangwe. Ke rata ke bua thata ka kgang e e neng e buiwa gore madi a ga go

tlhaloganngwe gore ke eng fa go tlaa iwa kwa China, Machina bone ba akanyetsa batho

ba bone, goromente wa Botswana ene ga a akanyetse batho ba gagwe. Selo sa ntlha mma

ke re go lemotshega ka botlalo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente gore fa tsela e fela

e dirwa ya Dutlwe-Morwamosu ga go na jaaka Batswana ba ka seka ba bona ditiro gone

foo. Batswana ba le bantsi ba ya go bona ditiro foo, mme goromente wa Botswana o ba

akanyeditse bogolo thata ka gore a ye go adima madi a a morokotso monyennyane a e

bileng bontlha bongwe e le mpho. Jaanong fa e le gore go na le mongwe yo o ka

ngongoregelang selo seo a ba a kgala goromente gore ga a dira sentle go ya kwa

goromenteng kana kwa bankeng ya China go ya go adima madi a, nnyaa bagaetsho ke

gore jaanong re bo e le gore jaanong o ka re re lebile go sele. Rona bagaetsho ba re

tswang kgakala re ntse re a ne re rongwa fa re rongwang teng, kadimo e ya madi ya

gompienno ga se yone ya ntlha e goromente wa Botswana e reng a adima lefatshe le le

adimang le bo le re mme re kopa gore e re le fa re tlaa bo e le gore madi ao re a adimile

lefatshe la lona Batswana ba ya go bona ditiro mme le rona le re akanyetseng ka jaana re

le fokoletsa bontlha bongwe morokotso mme e bile re le fa bontlha bongwe. Nna fa ke le

moemedi wa lefatshe la Botswana kwa lefatsheng la ga Mmamosadinyana re ne re
tlhasetswe ke Ma-Aferika Borwa a nako eo ba apareteiti. Ba a ne ba tla fela ka difofane

di fofa ka kwa di ya go tlhasela bo Zambia, di tlhasela gone mo Botswana re sena selo se

gotweng ke flight information region e e neng e le gore re le lefatshe la Botswana re

kgona go bona gore difofane mo Botswana di fofa kae jang. Mme lefatshe la ga

Mmamosadinyana le ne la bua gore re ka thusa lefatshe la Botswana go le adima madi go

dira flight information region fela fa e le gore bontlha bongwe ja kopo eo re tlaa bo le fa

mme re eletsa gore dikompone tse di tlileng go dira tiro eo e bo e le nngwe ya dikompone

tse di tlaa iteisanang borathana mme e le tsa lefatshe la Enyelane. Mme go ne ga nna fela

jalo. A golo moo e ne e se go akanyetsa Batswana? Tshireletso ya Botswana jaaka

gompieno e rile fa flight information region e sena go dirwa Batswana ba sireletsega thata

ka gore fa e sale jaaka go nna jalo ga re ise re ko re tlhole re bona difofane di tla fela mo

di tla go thuthuntsha di bolaya batho ba tlhaselwa ke Ma-Aferika Borwa ka nako ya

apareteiti. Jaanong ke tsamaiso e re e fitlhelang gongwe le gongwe mo mafatshefatsheng.

Jaanong gore mme e kgalwe jaaka e kete ga se selo se se leng teng se se dirafalang nnyaa,

tlhe batho ba Modimo a ko e ne e re fa re riana re sa lebe gore e tlaa re batho ba utlwa

gore kana Batswana ga ba a hirwa mme go ilwe go sele ke tlaa tlhophiwa. A re

farologanyeng selo seo le boemedi; a re farologanye selo seo le gore re le barongwa ba

batho re tshwanetse gore fa dilo tse di tla fa pele ga rona re di lebe ka tsela e e ntseng jalo

ya gore sa ntlha re akanyetse lefatshe la Botswana re seka ra re re tswa fa e bo e le fela

gore nna gongwe ke ikakanyetse ka bonna ka gore ke tlhomamisa gore Batswana ba le

bantsintsi bone ba lebogela selo se.

PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED FOR APPROXIMATELY

25 MINUTES
MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. E rile fa

go iwa boikhutsong, ke ne ke sa ntse ke tshwere kgang ya gore ke tlatsa se Tona a se

buileng. Mme sengwe sa dilo tse ke neng ke di solofeditse go ne go tulwe ke ye go tla ka

bosupi jwa gore a ke boammaaruri e rile mo lebakeng le le fetileng Tona wa Ditiro le

Ditsela a solofetsa mo palamenteng mo, mme e bile a golaganya ditsela tse pedi tse ke

neng ke bua ka tsone.

E ne ya re ka kgwedi ya Tlhakole ka 2005, ka botsa potso gone mo Ntlong e e tlotlegang

e, gore, a ka jaana e tsile gore fa tsela e e tswang fano e ya Morwamosu, e tlaa re fa e

dirwa, jaanong batsamai ba tlaa dirisa thata tsela e e ralalang Molepolole go na le e yang

go tsamaya kwa Jwaneng. A gona le dikakanyetso tsa gore e re mo lebakeng go

baakanngwe tsela ya Molepolole? Mme ka nnete Tona ya re a araba a re, ee, re kile ra

dira dikakanyetso tseo. Fa e ne e le go rata ga rona, e ka bo e rile mo kabong ya madi ya

2004/2005 ra dira sesha tsela e e tswang mo Molepolole e ya Letlhakeng, mme ra bo ra

dira e e dikologang Molepolole gore e tle e re fa tsela e ntsha e fela, e e yang go re

golaganya le Kang, e bo e le gore dilo tseo di siame. Mme go ne ga busediwa kwa

morago ka lebaka la gore madi a ne a seo. A tswelela a re, mme jaanong kana, tsela e e

yang go tswa kwa Letlhakeng e ya kwa Kang, ga e ise e fele, jalo ga re solofele mo

lebakeng leno gore dikoloi tse dintsi di ka simolola tsa tsamaya ka tsela e e ralalang

Molepolole. Fela gone ka fa re solofelang ka teng, e tlaa re jaanong fa tsela eo re e dira,

re bo re na le madi a tsela ya Molepolole/Letlhakeng e e tsenyang go dikologa

Molepolole, go baakanngwa e e ralalang Molepolole.

MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (MRS

VENSON-MOITOI): Ke kopa tlhaloso.
MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Mme ke fetse tlhaloso ya me pele o tlaa tla o kopa tlhaloso.

Ga ke batle go tsenwa ganong, mma ke fetse tlhaloso ya me pele.

Jaanong se ke neng ke se bua gompieno ke rile, ke solofela gore, ka gore Tona e ne ya re

a araba potso ya me, mo Ntlong e e tlotlegang e, a bua gore, e tlaa re fa go dirwa tsela e

ya bofelo e e golaganyang Kang le Letlhakeng …

MRS VENSON-MOITOI: On a point of procedure. O tlaa intshwarela mokaulengwe.

Kana rraetsho, o ntsha bosupi jo bo kwadilweng, jaanong ka tsamaiso ke ne ke re ke kope

gore, rather than him paraphrasing his question and answer, a a bale, a re tlhofofaletse

kgang gore potso e ne ya re, karabo e ne ya re. Re tlaa tla re itlhalosetsa, rather than a re

tlolokolela gore go ne go tweng.

MADAM SPEAKER: Honourable Minister o ka re o ne wa itlhaganela. Nna ka fa ke

neng ke mo lebile ka teng, o ne a setse e bile a tshwere karabo gore a tle a arabe.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ga re o a

bo o tsile o tlile go baakanya dilo fa.

Ke tlhalositse ka re, mma ke fetse tlhaloso ya me pele se shweng pelo. Jaanong se ke

neng ke se bua gompieno, ke tlhalositse gore, ke golaganya ditsela tse ka mabaka a Tona

a a buileng mo fa a araba potso ya me. Ka jaana e rile ke bua Tona a re ke bua fela,

jaanong mma ke bale potso. Potso ya me e ke e boditseng ka 23rd February 2005, ene e

re, and I quote Madam Speaker. “to ask the Minister of Works and Transport whether

any contingency plans have been made to accommodate possible traffic that is likely to

pass through Molepolole after the completion of the Letlhakeng/Kang road.” Now the

answer Madam Speaker, “Contingency plans have been made to accommodate possible

increased traffic volume that is likely to pass through Molepolole after the completion of
the Letlhakeng/Kang road. Provision was made in NDP 9 for the reconstruction of the

Molepolole/Letlhakeng road. The scope of this project will include a road that will

bypass Molepolole as well as the reconstruction of the road going through Molepolole.

This project was planned for implementation in the 2004/2005 financial year. However,

due to financial constraints the project has been deferred. I wish to add here Mr Speaker

that the last section of the Letlhakeng/Kang road has not yet started. Therefore, traffic

through Molepolole is not likely to drastically increase within the next two to three years.

It is our hope that by the time the second section of the Letlhakeng/Kang road starts my

Ministry   will   have   been    allocated    funds   to   start   the   reconstruction   of

Molepolole/Letlhakeng road which as indicated earlier includes a bypass road in

Molepolole”.

Jaanong Madam Speaker, nna se ke neng ke se bua, ke sone se. Gore, ke tsaya gore

jaanong ka gore tsela e go builweng ka yone e e leng gore ke seketi sa bofelo sa tsela e e

agwang kwa, jaanong Tona o tlaa itlamakanyetsa gore a tle a dire tsela ya

Molepolole/Letlhakeng a bo a dire bypass. Ke sone se ke neng ke se bua.

MR RAKHUDU: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Nnyaa, iketle pele rraetsho, kgang ga se ya gago ke ya me.

Nnyaa, ga gona sepe that you are clarifying. Nna fela se ke neng ke se bua Motlotlegi

kana ke gore, se bakaulengwe ba itsenyang ditlhokwa mo ditsebeng ke gore, ga ba batle

go tlhaloganya gore ke ne ke reng. Ga ke ise ke re, ke batla gore gone gompieno jaana

tsela ya Molepolole/Letlhakeng e bo e agiwa. Ke rile, ke solofela gore jaanong ka gore

tsela e e a agiwa jaaka Tona a ne a buile …

MR RAKHUDU: On a point of procedure Madam Speaker.
MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Nnyaa, ga gona procedure ya sepe, e rile kgantele go twe

procedure, …

MADAM SPEAKER: Honourable Rakhudu, ga ke dumalane le mo Motlotlegi a reng

clarification, e bo e re jaanong fa a bona e ke te go a pala a bo a re, procedure. E bo e le

procedure.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Ga ke batle go mo neela ka gore o ikanetse gore, o tlile go

nkganetsa. Jaanong ga ke batle motho yo e reng kgang e sa mo reye, a ba a ikana, ga go a

siama.

MR RAKHUDU: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I stand on a point of

procedure Madam Speaker, e ntshe re e bone arises out of a situation fa re neng ra e

ntsha rona, a ba a re, ka le intshitse e, ke ya go ntsha ya me le lona le e bona.

Madam Speaker, the procedure should be that we should tally the two, re re, Minister a o

aketsa palamente, jaanong fa e le gore go ntse jalo, o tlaa bo a aketsa palamente. Mme

Committee of Supply e supa gore ga a ake. Nna I would say, on a matter of procedure re

tshwanetse gore re di golaganye. What the Minister said in paragraph 53 here, 6th March,

a a bue gore fa le Minister o ne a bua jalo leng. Re tle re golaganye hopes tsele le a

definite budget thing.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, mafoko a me ke a

buile, ke arabile. Ga ke tlhaloganye gore Motlotlegi Rre Rakhudu mo kgannye e, o sha

ntshu a ogola eng. Ka gore, ga go mo reye le fa e le sepe. Kgang e ke e buang, e rile a bua

mafoko a budget, ke bo ke re, kana mafoko a o a balang ke a budget. Nna e rile ke bua ka

re, karabo ya potso. Ke buile fa ka re, ke boditse potso mo kabong ya madi ya ngwaga o o

fetileng, ga ke a loba. Mme karabo ya me fa e supa gore, potso e ke e boditse mo kabong
ya madi ya ngwaga o o fetileng. Jaanong ga ke tlhaloganye gore tota ka gore e bile Tona

o lemogile gore ka boammaaruri potso e ne e kile ya arajwa mo e rialo, ga ke

tlhaloganye...

MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT (DR NASHA): On a point of clarification

Madam Speaker.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Nnyaa, ke gana clarifications Tona. Ka gore…

MINISTER OF WORKS AND TRANSPORT (MS MOTSUMI): On a point of

elucidation.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Ga se gore fa e le Minister, fa o bua o ka go tsena ganong

fela. Fa o sa batle ga o batle. Jaanong ke tswelela le se ke batlang go se bua. Nna fa ke

tswa fa ke rile, ka go ne go twe a e tswe re e bone, ke rile ke ya go tsaya potso le karabo,

jaanong ke e e dule e. E tswa jaana e araba potso e ke neng ke ntse ke e bodiwa ke Tona a

re, ditsela tse o di golaganya jang. Jaanong ke golagantse ditsela tse ka karabo e. Ka gore

ke sone se nneng Tona a batla go se itse. Gore, ke di golaganya jang. Ke di golagantse ka

karabo ya gagwe ke e. Mme dinyalanye e bile. Ka gore nna ke ne ke botsa ka tsela ya

Molepolole. A e re a e araba a bo a tsamaya a ya go bua ka bofelo jwa tsela e e yang kwa

Kang. Jaanong ke e, ga ke ganetse gore o buile jaaka a bua, kana jaaka Rre Rakhudu a re

o buile jalo mo kabong madi, ga ke ganetse.

Mme ke tlhalositse gore mme potso, le yone o e arabile ka tsela e e ntseng jaana. Jaanong

ga ke itse gore gatwe, gare go tsenye eng. Fa e le gore Rre Rakhudu le mongwe yo o

buang ka kwa a ntse a ntlhaeletsa ka mafoko, ga ke nke ke a reetse ao. Nna ke tlaa bua

fela gore sa bofelo nna kana tota fela e rile fa ke ema fa, ke ne ke emela go tlatsa kopo e

Tona wa madi le ditogamaano a e re beileng pele. Jaanong ba bangwe ba e leng gore ba
reka selo seo, ga ke itse gore ba tswa fa kae. Fela mme nna lefoko la me le ke fetsang ka

lone ke rile ke tlatsa kopo e, ka jaana ke solofela gore, e tlaa re jaaka tsela e e dirwa e, go

bo go bulela gore ya Molepolole/Letlhakeng e dirwe, go bo go dirwe bypass. Ke a

leboga.
MR LEFHOKO (SHOSHONG): Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me also rise in this

afternoon to express first my gratitude to you for giving me the opportunity to contribute.

I must from the onset clearly state that I support the Minister‟s Bill as presented in the

House.

I must further state that I take cognisance of the views that were expressed earlier on by

other colleagues but it is important to make a few comments. The Minister has reliably

informed me through the House, that they would be doing a road from Dutlwe to

Morwamosu and that there would be a total of seven kilometers of access roads. All

access roads will total seven kilometres. I am also reliably informed, by the Minister that

there would be a link road from Kang to Tsetseng. It is my recollection Madam Speaker

that during the 8th Parliament, in the opening of the 1st meeting of the 5th session, His

Excellency the President in his State of the Nation address, addressed issues surrounding

the seven pillars of the vision 2016. If I err, it would be either a year earlier or a year after

but I think in my recollection it is true. One of the issues that was interrogated and

subsequently reiterated in the Budget Speech that followed was the issue of equity and

fairness.

So I am slightly taken aback and I must say for the record unequivocally that I have

nothing against the people of Tsetseng, the 396 people of Tsetseng according to 2001

census report. But this playing around with words, I think our policy is clear we do access

roads and we have said that when you do a trunk road and there is a village ten kilometres

away from the trunk road or anything inside ten kilometres you will then do an access.

Now I want to understand this new formula of a link road because the link road is 30

kilometres, as far as my recollection Tsetseng from Kang is 30 kilometers and there are
396 people resident in Tsetseng.

When I begin to compare this with a place like Poloka in the Shoshong Constituency 24

kilometres west of Dibete, there is no link road being done. Worse still a place like

Mookane 16 kilometres away from the Dibete road, which is being redone with a

population over 2000, Poloka 725 according to the 2001 census. Obviously I mean you

can use the normal formula provided in the report to do your projection of the increases,

obviously the men in Poloka have not been idling, work continues as so the number must

have increased especially that we are midway between the next census. And for a fact, we

know that the Ministry of Finance projection which will probably come late when we

have done the actual census in the coming 2011 as usual we received the report here. I

gave example in this House Madam Speaker, where we received a document here fresh

smelling of niece, sepia monde paper, circulated to Honourable Members of Parliament

showing projected population after post facto. I asked what the relevance of circulating

this document that late when we had a report of an actual census was. And it was

seriously warped because they said that they project that in the year 2016; the village of

Shoshong will have 7500 people when in fact in 2001 already the census had said they

had 7500 people, so you can see how warped those figures were.

But the issue here Madam Speaker is not the figures, I want to illustrate that issues of

equity and fairness should indeed be addressed as His Excellency said in his speech at the

onset of the last year of the Parliamentary year of the 8th Parliament. So, I do not begin to

understand what this link road is. It does not fall under access, access says ten kilometres,

there are villages with larger population like Poloka, as I have stated 24 kilometres west

of Dibete, Mookane over 2000 people, 16 kilometres away from the road, they are not
receiving a link road. How does one qualify for this link road? It is a very interesting

scenario. I would like the Honourable Minister of Finance as he responds to explain this

new nomenclature so that maybe, Honourable Tshireletso of Mahalapye should have then

asked for the 16 kilometres to Mookane servicing a larger population of close to 3000

people under the term link road. Maybe then, I would have put a proposal for Poloka with

a population twice the size of Tsetseng to ask for a 24 -kilometre link road. Where does

the link road come from Honourable Minister? In which policy do we have these link

roads so that we should access it and have equity and fairness in the distribution of this

country‟s resources?

The other issue I would like to bring to the fore Madam Speaker is that of quality. The

engineering standards that we hear of, when you ask people who know about these they

say, “Aa, all other things being equal roads should be engineered for 20 years, but that is

not the case in Botswana”. In fact you can engineer a road for 50 years, it is a fact but we

do not even follow the standard 20 to 25 years engineering. We go and lower the

standards; sometimes the roads are engineered by those who know how to do the job to

the proper standard and then we at the government listen to some funny advisor, and I say

funny not guardedly funny, because they would then advocate for the lowering of the

specs, poorer engineering. What is the meaning of poorer engineering? It means that you

do not cry now when you do the road, you think that you are making a saving. You do

not cry now, but two/five years down the line you begin to spend a fortune maintaining

these roads. And you have to harness the same guys to come and advise you how to do it

all over again. In the end you spend more millions in maintenance because you received

the wrong advice of opting for lower standards. A cheaply constructed road is expensive
to maintain that is a fact. You buy cheap you cry forever, you buy expensive good quality

materials then you cry only once. Why are we opting to cry go ya go ileng? Why are we

opting for the pennywise pound-foolish scenario? I want to say that it is important to ring

these issues to the fore. And of course this Madam Speaker ties well with the issue of

supervision, what Honourable Rakhudu harped on, the issue of inspection. We hire

consultants to do these things for us, we have own staff from the ministry doing these

things, what goes wrong?

There are critical areas Madam Speaker, as far as I am concerned in any country, even in

a family, a nuclear family there are critical areas, issues, chores, or tasks that must be

assigned to people with integrity in the family. I think even in the whole exercise the

issue of supervision should be assigned to Batswana of integrity and their integrity must

continuously be tested and checked. We have lost in the millions Madam, because there

has not been proper supervision. We are littered with roads that have hardly been five

years and have had to be redone. Clearly the Dikabeya/Kgagodi road to Sefhophe is a

disaster, so is Setatse/Martins Drift road.

I wish Honourable Kwelagobe was here because he is part of the group that flats with

lowering of standards. I recall Madam Speaker when I queried when we were doing the

Molepolole/Lephephe/Shoshong road they opted for lower standards and from time to

time before long the road had to be maintained. When it gets hot in summer they have to

offload loads and loads of sand on that road that comes at a huge cost. A road specs are

watered down, we think we are saving now and we are not three years down the line we

begin to lose more money, and begin to lose more money from three years to five

continuously until we have to redo the road. When are we going to get away from this?
I recall Madam Speaker one time when General Merafhe, the Honourable Member for

Mahalapye West, asked about how we construct not only roads, general infrastructure as

if, he said and I paraphrase, he said, “We construct as if somebody knows that we are in

transition, we are about to move in a few years we will leave this country.” What is

wrong, why can we not do things that have longevity in this life? We always say the

youths are our tomorrow, out children are tomorrow, what are we going to live for them,

potholes?

Nnyaa bagaetsho, while I laud the Minister's efforts in securing this loan I think the issue

of supervision, go ko go fokotswe dilo tse tsa Sekwena. Ko Mokwena kwa Madam

Speaker if I lapse briefly to vernacular ga twe gona le selo ga twe mogata wa tshwene. Ke

belaela gore bana ba rona ba mo selong se sa mogatla wa tshwene.

I cannot understand how an educated Motswana employed by this government with his or

her mind intact, able body, healthy, mentally healthy, spiritually sound can go and pass a

piece of road as worthy for payment by this government when they know for sure - yes,

just for thirty pieces of silver. Really, I think these things must be checked. A lot is going

wrong especially here Madam Speaker, and it is important to harp on this issue especially

where the terms have already prescribed that the contractors will be foreign. It is

important for us to have our own eye and a proper eye there on issues. And I suppose not

only where contractors are necessarily prescribed to be foreign as in this contract even

where we are sourcing from the DDF; after all it is Batswana's hard earned income. An

eye must be kept on supervision. I really cannot understand how this goes on forever like

this.

But also it is not just mogatla wa tshwene, it is also where we as people there to make
decisions, deliberately drop the specks and the standards…

MR KGATHI: On a point of clarification. Ke ne ke kopa gore mokaulengwe a re thuse

ka go tlhaloganya gore mogatla wa tshwene o raya eng gore ke tle ke kgone go tshwara

the debate.

MR LEFHOKO: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me hasten to assist my colleague. I

am told in the Kweneng area this expression is a figure of speech that refers to what

Chinua Achebe called, and you are a teacher you should know, "oiling the wheels of

tradition" or simply referred to as bribery. I got this expression when Mogoditshane was

being dissected. I am told the Chief would just walk a few metres when you want a plot

and then say it ends here. It will be a small piece so you complain and one cousin of mine

if you allow me to explain where we got it Madam Speaker, said he was involved in this

thing. So this Chief walks a few metres and says this is it, I give you so much. And then

at the end of the day he sits with this Chief or Headman and he is mourning about the size

of plot that he got. And then the Chief asks, a o tshwere mogatla wa tshwene monna, and

the poor fellow e le Mophaleng a e tswela Shoshong did not know what this expression

meant ka Sekwena. So he went back to the Kwena guys who had referred him to the

exercise to check with them what is this. Kana the Chief says he can give me more but do

I have the Baboon's tail. So they explained to him gore, monna go tewa gotwe o ntshe

letshophelanyana and this one was a cheap one Madam Speaker. Because he told me that

all you needed to do was buy a litre of club mint punch and six castles and then he would

give him and then he would add more. You bring another club mint punch and a six-pack

of castle he would take some more steps so you end up with a larger plot. It was a cheap

one but what is important is the principle that it is wrong to do so and really are our
officials not involved in this thing? How many roads have been done poorly because of

supervision and we blame supervision now and who supervises? It is us. So I get worried

when we are the ones in leadership complaining about supervision when we should be

cracking the whip.

In supporting this I need also to raise the fact Madam Speaker, that we will not apologise

for raising issues of citizen empowerment around every project and our colleagues in the

front bench must begin to understand that this will go on and on until you wake up to

citizen empowerment. There is a friend of ours; the former Speaker of Malawi, who was

Chairperson of the SADC Forum, he would always say collegis meaning colleagues. I

know Madam Speaker that the granules are already beginning to whisper. I read in

Mmegi newspaper today that the granules in the Irish coffee cream are beginning to

whisper the wrong message to our Government. But the granules are beginning to speak

and we knew that they would be the first to speak. Those who are used there, as decor to

say no, but there are Batswana involved in construction and there are Batswana

participating in big business in Botswana. Those are the granules Honourable Member

for Lentsweletau; they pick a few Batswana…

MAJ. GEN. PHETO: Point of clarification, Madam Speaker. Thank you for allowing

me Honourable Lefhoko. There is no constituency called Lentsweletau, it is called

Kweneng East.

MR LEFHOKO: Thank you very much Madam Speaker, and I must thank my colleague

for the correction. As a person who has taught I accept corrections readily. By the way it

was amended in the last delimitation; Kweneng East. Good, Honourable Member for

Kweneng East. The Irish coffee I referred in my last intervention to the Irish coffee
scenario, and this is a figure of speech, which simply means those who are milking this

country dry economically pick a few people for reasons best known to themselves, some

weak, some very powerful, influential in government, and some of no power or effect in

government. And put them in their Boards and make them nominal shareholders and

come with all sorts of schemes bone bo Performance Bonuses and so forth so that when

you question citizen empowerment, say no, but there are Batswana participating. If you

look at our company the thin print of names at the bottom are Batswana Directors and

whatever. Those are the granules, just to colour but the foreigners are really milking the

cream. The P6.3 billion that we will spend this year on the development budget, the bulk

of the money will fly out of this country whether in the name of locally registered

companies or not, I do not care. That is what I am talking about Honourable Member for

Bobirwa.

But what is important is the empowerment aspect and I know to a certain extent to which

we can empower Batswana is already limited in that the agreement binds us that it would

be tender between Chinese companies. I have no problem with that Honourable Minister

but I think as we negotiate these issues, there are certain aspects that we can also bargain

on. There are certain aspects where we can seek agreement with our Chinese counterparts

that since you have the bulk of the cake, but could you cut the rest of the smaller slices

for citizen contractors. What is wrong with asking this? After all you can only ask if they

do not agree you will not die. But I am actually saying as a government we can do more

than asking.

I have met colleagues outside in the corridors who have said to me ah, no, you know

Honourable Lefhoko it is not as easy as all that. Those are people who have been
listening to the granules because ever since Honourable Sebetela's motion was debated

here, the granules have been approaching our Honourable Ministers saying it is not

doable. And we have said clearly that the issue of citizen empowerment can only happen

if there is political will because in any case, be they be technocrats or experts in what

field as long as they are milking this cow and they are milking it solely to their benefit

they would not want to share. So they will parade you with a plethora of reasons why you

cannot empower your own. That is where you need to rise above commonness because

we are saying things that are being done in the hood Madam Speaker…interruption…The

point I am making is that it is happening in other countries like South Africa and

Namibia. Why is it taboo in Botswana that you can actually prepare your tender

documents and you do not need Parliament to make a law? You do not need an Act of

Parliament, you do not need regulations and you just need to make it a condition of

tender.

In South Africa; Cape Town, the meeting I referred to earlier in the other debate they

clearly say it is just a condition of tender that XY will go to citizens or in their case they

use black empowerment. The effect is the same and that is all we need to do. Now I am

not an advocate of keeping Batswana on lowly jobs doing menial jobs in contracts, no.

There are a lot of capable Batswana who can do all sorts of jobs right through the broad

spectrum of construction. I have seen a lot of experts from South Africa coming here with

Standard 8 and some Apprenticeships Certificate for one year. Ee, ba tlisitswe gotwe ke

bone botswere. Botswana has seriously educated Batswana beyond those Apprenticeships

Certificates and I think we can actually, after we check the capacity as Honourable

Sebetela so requests, I can say with no actuarial research done as yet in the data
collection. Clinically, I can say we have educated enough Batswana and there is latent

capacity of very erudite Batswana in all fields. So there is no need to fear to make these

conditions. Mme fela fa o dira condition ya gore, metlhaba le concrete fa o tendera mo

tendereng o itse gore o a go contracta diteraka le mo go gelelang mo (JCB) ga

Batswana. The person coming to tender will know gore in order to satisfy the

requirements of this tender I have to do this.

That is what they do in South Africa; they have not made a law in Parliament, and if you

want this Parliament to legislate, we shall indeed do so. If it were not for this bureaucratic

inertia a motion should have already been here, calling for a policy, a policy in which we

will have our framework and then come with a bill; I am grateful, Madam Speaker, that

this Parliament to a certain extent is empowered, in that we have a legal counsel who will

also assist us bring private Members bills in here, if our colleagues in the front bench

continue to drag their feet on the issues of empowerment.

HONOURABLE MEMBER:.. (Inaudible)…

MR LEFHOKO: We are talking about it, do you think Batswana cannot get empowered

by participating in the construction of the road from Dutlwe to Morwamosu? It is..

(inaudible).. height of naivety.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O a ineelela.

MR LEFHOKO: Nnyaa, fa ke ineelela ke buelela Batswana, so be it. There was

Honourable Member here who spoke very well, earlier today. It is Honourable Maswabi,

except that he then brought a very petty issue, a re Kana ke gore Mapalamente a batla go

ya go tsenya diteraka. Honourable Member for Kanye, these Members of Parliament are

Botswana citizens and there is nothing wrong in them participating, since we are talking
citizen empowerment. Who said when you become an MP you are not a citizen, you then

cease to be entitled to those things that a citizen is entitled to? In our own language ra re

„khudu e nnyela morwadi, tshika go ja tsoo moapei.‟ Where do you get that notion? Let

the citizens here, capable ones, go and participate, be they Members of Parliament or

Ministers, let them go and participate. Be they Ministers or just ordinary Batswana out

there, let them participate and lead by example. O fitlhela e le gore it is as if we should

apologise for being Members of Parliament. We have been duly elected and

constitutionally so but it does not take away our rights as citizens. That was the only

quarrel I have with you, my brother. I now forgive you and you should never come with

that line of … I will pray for you tonight.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O jele madi a CEDA wena.

MR LEFHOKO: It is fine, he is a citizen, he should access that money and put it to good

use and employ other Batswana, as we want Batswana to be employed fa go dirwa tsela

ya Dutlwe-Morwamosu.

MR SEBETELA: Elucidation, Madam Speaker. Ke ne ke re ke dumalana le gore we are

citizens golo fa, e bile re ka bona sengwe le sengwe jaaka mokaulengwe ene Maswabi yo

o Tlotlegang e rile ba bangwe ba bona P2 million ceiling ya CEDA, ene a e tlolela ka

kwa. Ga gona ope yo o kileng a ngongorega gone fa, ka re ne re itse gore ke Motswana

go mo tshwanetse. Fa e le gore indeed go na le Matona a a batlang go tsenya diteraka mo

tseleng eo, ba di rekile ka fa molaong, heelang, yang go direka tlhe Matona le tle le

phatsime.

MADAM SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, a re bueng ka the bill,

Ratification Bill. Ke gore re a tswa fela re a phatlalala, re setse re bua ka bo Rre
Maswabi le bo CEDA. Honourable Lefhoko, come back.

MR LEFHOKO: Thank you, Madam Speaker. In fact I have been around, yo o buang ka

Maswabi ke yo, I was just correcting the notion ya gore o ka re rona in this house we do

not have a right to participate in these roads.

I had started at the onset by saying that I support the bill and I am not going to debate the

merits and demerits of how the negotiators went through. I think all said and done the

negotiating team did well under the circumstances. I also do not think we will rely on

China alone. Of course I do not buy the issue raised by Honourable Kwelagobe earlier

saying since they helped us in the past, jaanong ba ka re ja ntsoma, no. We are past that

stage; we are now in the global market where we should be a formidable player,

especially due to our credit rating. We should never be apologetic when we negotiate, but

I think they negotiated well and we welcome these funds to carry out this project and do

hope that next time our negotiating team through you, Honourable Minister of Finance,

will strive for even greater participation by Batswana. You have heard our concerns there

is no need to be overly repetitive about those concerns, you will always try to get us more

and more of the cake.

With those few remarks, Madam Speaker, I want to express my unqualified gratitude to

you for having offered me this afternoon an opportunity to bring to this Honourable

House the voice of the people of Shoshong. I thank you.
MR MOKGWATHI (LETLHAKENG EAST): Ke a leboga, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo

tsa Palamente. Ke ne ke re le nna ke eme, ke leboge, ke bo ke itumelele lephata le la

Ditiro le Ditsela ka fa le dirileng ka teng. Gongwe fa o ka ntetlelela gore ke simolole

kgang ya me ka go dirisa se e leng ngwao ya rona kana tsamaiso e re ntseng re le mo go

yone, bogolo jang rona ba re nnang mo mafelong a le a bitsang areas, ko diphologong.

Ke tsaya gore ke Setswana se se itsiweng ke mongwe le mongwe. Fa e ka re le le banna

le na le malatsi a mararo le sa je sepe ko letsomong, monna a bo a re a tsholetsa tlhobolo

o utlwa lerumo le re chalalalalaa! le ya go timelela koo, mme yo mongwe o bapile nae, e

re a ntsha lerumo le re kgethu, phologolo e bo e wa, yole wa ntlha fa a re o tsholetsa

tlhobolo, o mo raya o re iketle pele rra o tloga o tshosa diphologolo. Se ke lekang go se

bua ke gore dingwaga di ka nna 40 re ntse re utlwalela ditsela tsa dikonotere ka ko

letsatsi le tswang teng, ka ko seporong, jaanong fa nako re nna le the very first time road

mo kgaolong ya rona, ke tshwanetse ke akgole Tona wa go nna jalo. Botona ba bangwe e

ne e le batsumi ba ba fetisang marumo fela. Jaanong mongwe fa a ema e le Motsumi

jaaka leina la gagwe, ke ene wa ntlha Minister of Transport yo re mmoneng a tsamaya le

kgaolo. Moo ke tshwanetse ke go akgole. Ditona tse dingwe ga di nke di ya teng. Jaanong

ka lebaka le fa go tla bill e e tshwanang le e, e e tsisang ditlhabololo e lantlha mo

kgaolong yame, ke mongwe wa ntlha go akgola ke re ke dumalana le se. Ba bangwe re

utlwa fa ba na le access road. Ke tlhaloganya gore go na le access road le link road. Bao

bone ba sale ba bona ditlhabololo bogologolo bana ba rona ba tsoma thuto kwa ga bone.

Motse o tshwana le wa Tsetseng o tshwanetse gore le one o nne le a link road e seng

access road gore le one o tsene mo metseng, ba tlogele go nna e re fa motho a lwala re bo

re akanya Molepolole, le go sena le fa e le ditsela. Mme ba itse gore motho o ka siana a
tsena ko Kang gongwe a bo a fetisetswa ko Hukuntsi. Re leka gore le rona in terms of

equity re tshwane le batho. Mme fa mongwe wa ba ba sa bolong go bona ditlhabologo, a

ema a ngongoregela tsela e e tswang mo Tsetseng e ya Kang, go re bontsha ka botlalo

gore go na le batho ba e leng gore puo ya bone e supa gore se se leng mo ditlhaloganyong

tsa batho ke gore ke link road ya Namibia le Gaborone. Gore e thusa jang mo matshelong

a batho mo kgaolong moo ga gona le fa e le ope yo o go bonang.

MR LEFHOKO: Clarification, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, ke a leboga. I have a

dilemma gore a ke bue ka Setswana kana ka Sekgoa. Mme mma ke leke Setswana gore

ke tlhalosetse mokaulengwe. Ke ne ka re ke lebogela gore batho ba Tsetseng bone ba tla

bona tsela, ga ke kgatlhanong le gore ba bone tsela. Ke ne ke bua ka Sekgoa ka nako eo,

jaanong ke tla tlhalosa ka Setswana gore fa re dira dilo tse re di tshwantshe. Tautona o

buile ka gore dilo di abelanwe ka tekatekano. Jaanong, fa e le gore re na le mo go

bidiwang link road, mo e leng gore le gone go kgona go anyela fa go dirwa tsela fa gare

ga mafelo a mabedi e bong Dutlwe le Morwamusu, a re itse gore le rona ka moso re kope

link roads, ka gore ga se Tsetseng fela e e tlhokang link road. Nna ke ne ke bua jaana,

gore le rona re itse, ga se Tsetseng fela e e tlhokang link road. Mafelo a mantsi fa o ya ko

Boteti, le fa o tswa fa Dibete go ya ko Poloka. Ke motse wa sebopego sone sa bo

Tsetseng, gape ke Batswana le bone. Re itse gore go na le a formula ya link e re ka

tsenang ka yone, a re tlhalosetswe. Ke sone se ke neng ke se kopa, ke sa re batho ba

Tsetseng ba seka ba direlwa.

MR RAKHUDU: Further clarification, Madam Speaker. Ke a leboga, Madam Speaker.

Re tshwanetse gore re utlwisisanye fa re bua, e seng gore go nne jaaka o kare re ne re

gana ba bangwe. Link road e a e bitsang ya Namibia, ka ke motho bone a bua ka yone, re
raya gore a tle a rekise ka yone e le motho wa Tsetseng. Fa o ya go rekisa digwapa tsa

diphofu tsa gago ko America o tsena fela ka fa next door, ke yone link e re reng go raya

gore le e dirise lona ba bophirima. Le gone gore jaaka o re ba bangwe ke ba

botlhabatsatsi, e re fa ba ya fa Thekwini fale, go seka ga sokola, o tswa kwa o simolola o

tla Gaborone, o ribele le letsatsi.

MR MOKGWATHI: Ke a leboga. Tau fa o e hudile o tlaa utlwa ka go bopa. Jaanong,

Mmaetsho Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, kgang e ke e buang ke gore rona tsela

e e agwang mo kgaolong ya rona, ga re e akanyetse gore ke ya diphofu, jaaka fa le bua ka

diphofu le digwapa tse le batlang go di isa koo. Re e tsaya e le tsela e e re golaganyang

gore le rona re bone ditlamelo, re nne le transportation, re nne le dipalamo jaaka mongwe

le mongwe,. Re tle re kgone go ya ko go bo Shoshong koo, re ye go bona dikole, e seng

mo bana ba rona ba nnang malatsi a le mantsi mo nageng, ba sa tsene sekole, ba robetse

mo tseleng, ka ntata ya go tlhoka transport. Mme ke lebogetse jaaka go dirilwe. Se

sengwe se ke batlang go se lebogela mabapi le se, ke gore tsamaiso ya puso ka fa ke e

tlhaloganyang ka teng, re ne ra dumalana budget speech, mme go direng jalo, Motlotlegi

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, madi a tsela e a ne a sa tsenngwa, fela jaaka re

itse gore re tsile go nna le supplementaries. Madi a ane a sa tsenngwa, mme ke lebogela

gore mo puong ya botlhe batlotlegi, ga gona yo o ileng a ngongoregela gore ke eng re

dumalana gore tsela e e tsenngwe, mme e ne e seyo in the budget. Two hundred and

eleven million pula yo go buiwang ka ene was not provided for in the budget. Jaanong ke

tshwanetse ke lebogele seo gore go na le ba bangwe ba e a tleng e re nako nngwe ba

lemoge gore le rona re tlhoka dilo tsa go nna jaana e bile go sena ope yo o ngongoregang

gore nnyaa ga e ka ke ya tsenngwa ka gore e ne e se in the budget. Ke tshwanetse ke
lebogele seo, gore batlotlegi ba dumalane gore se ne se seyo in the budget se kgone go

tsenngwa.

Ke ne ke re jaanong ke akgele mo go tse dingwe. Nna ke tsaya tsela e e le ya Letlhakeng-

Kang, ntswa ke sa batle go arabela Tona e e lebaganeng. Ditso tsa tsela e ka fa rona re le

baagi ba kgaolo re ne re tlhaloganya ka teng, re e boleletswe, e bile fa e betlwa re ne re le

teng. Re ne re bolelelwa gore tsela e e tsile go ralala metse go na le e e fetang e ya ko

Tsetseng go na le tse di tsenang mo metseng e e tlhamalelang ko Kang.

Mme e ne ya re go ntse go le mo dipuisanyong, ka tsholofetso ya batho e ne e dirilwe, le

bone ba itse gore ba tsile go anya sengwe mo tseleng e, ga bo go re go bonwa go tura go

bo gotwe nnyaa, mme a re e digele fa Morwamosu, e nne khutshwane. Go na le gore e ye

go feta kwa, e tlaa turela puso. Jaanong go tlaa bo go le cheap gore re tseye 31 kilometres

go tswa kwa Kang. Go na le gore e ralale go bo go nna le ditsela tse di ntseng jalo, e tlaa

bo e tura thata. Ke ka fa re neng re e tlhaloganya ka teng. Le fa ke sa arabele Tona, ke

tsaya gore ke lone lebaka le le dirileng gore ba Tsetseng le bone ba felele ba bona tsela.

Ba a bo ba thusitse ba amogela gore tsela e seka ya turela puso ka gore e boe mo

Motokwe e tsene mo Morwamosu.

Jaanong ke tsena mo go e nngwe gape le gore bomosola ba tsela e, ke e tsaya e le ya

Letlhakeng/Kang. Mme fa e le ya Letlhakeng/Kang jaana, re ka ithuta mo go bontlha

bongwe bo bo setseng bo agilwe. Ke simolola ka compensation, dikatso tsa ba ba neng ba

felela tsela e ama metse ya bone le masimo a bone. Gongwe ka gore ga re na a detailed

memorandum, tsela e, e simologa mo Letlhakeng, mme e feletse rona bogolo jang mo

diofising tsa rona, Honourable Nagafela le yame, re nna le bothata jwa batho ba ba neng

ba felela tsela e ba ama ba fuduga. Ba fudusiwa ka gore go na le gore tsela e tshwanetse e
nne bophara bo kae le metse go sele. Dikatakatsa tse di neng di dirisiwa, kana ke dirolara,

go ne go sena thulaganyo e e tletseng ya gore batho ba itsisiwe ka botlalo pele ga tsela e

dirwa gore, le tsile go amega, le tlaa fuduga. Ga ba ga dirwa gore go bonwe gore mme

ntlo e o e agileng kampo mosasana o o nang nao seemo sa one a ke se se ka thubiwang ke

go roroma ga tsela e roromisiwa ke machines tse di neng di dirisiwa. Go feletse go nna le

bothata jwa gore batho go ne go sena tsamaiso le tsela e e tletseng ya gore ba tsile go

atswiwa ke tsela e e ntseng jang, ba bo ba tsibosiwa ka selo se. Bothata jo bo dirafetseng

jo, batho le gompieno ba sa ntse ba batla compensations tsa bone. Re sa itse gore a ke

Land Board e e amegang ka gore go tla Land Board Members ba tsile go… kwa ga rona

ba re go na le go sekaseka. Go tswa foo go tla ba konteraka, le bone ba tsile go bona gore

seemo se ntse jang. Se ba se re bolelelang gore tlhwatlhwa ya ditshenyegelo tsa gago e ka

nna bokana, ga re itse gore tota yo o lebaganeng ke mang. Golo mo, ke kopa Tona gore fa

le dira tsela le sa ntse le designa jaaka gompieno le e dira jaana, batho ba bo ba itse gore

ditshwanelo tsa bone ke eng. Ba tshwanetse ba fuduge ba ye go ema fa kae. Ntlo fa e

setse e ranyegile, mme mong wa ntlo a tla go re kana ntlo yame e rantswe ke gore dilo tse

di neng di dirisiwa mo tseleng ke tsone tse di tshikhintseng mmu tsa ba tsa thuba ntlo. Go

felela go nna le manganga gore nnyaa ntlo ya gago e ne e sa nna jalo. Mme go ne go sena

sepe se se neng se le teng pele go supa gore ntlo e, e ka nna ya tla ya amega. Jaanong ke

kopa gore, fa go dirwa tsela e e ntseng jaana jaaka e ya go tswelela, a go lebelelwe selo

se.

Mabapi le batho ba masimo, le bone ba sa ntse ba ngongorega ka compensation ya bone

ka gore go na le batho ba masimo a bone a ileng a tla a felela a tsewa ke tsela. A mangwe

go epiwa mmu o o dirisiwang mo go one. Mme ba boaboa kwa diofising, le rona re sa
itse gore jaanong thulaganyo e e neng e dirilwe ke eng go sa rerisiwa batho botlhe ba ba

amegang, kampo le rona ra bolelelwa gore botlhe ba ba amegang ba bilediwe golo

gongwe ba tlhalosediwe dilo tse. Ke kopa gore dikgang tse di ntseng jaana Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, le nne le di tsaya tsia pele, go itsa marara a gore jaanong batho

bone ba bo ba felela okare ba tlaa gogagogana le puso.

E nngwe mabapi le eo ke gore, tsela fa e simolola mo Letlhakeng, e nna le access roads,

ke feta ka yone e se e e kalo-kalo. Re na le access road, fa e tswa mo Letlhakeng fa

sekeleng, e le yone tsela e, di nne. Ke tsela e e yang kwa kgotleng, dilo tse dingwe fa

dirwa bagaetsho ke kopa gore di nne di tlhalosiwa. Rona re palelwa ke go di tlhalosa. Re

lekile tsela fa e sa ntse e dirwa gore, fa go ya go agiwa borogo jo bo kwa godimodimo,

over 2.4 metres, mme batho ba tshela noka ba ya kwa dicliniking, a go tlaa nna le access

road ya clinic. Karabo mo kgotleng ra tewa gatwe e tsile go nna teng. Go fitlhelela le

gompieno ga e yo. Ke bua ka yone tsela e ya Machina e. Jaanong, o bo o fitlhela e le gore

go na le access… le tlaa mpaakanyetsa mo dipelong tsa lona Batlotlegi le Motsamaisi,

access e ya kwa kgotleng. Ya bobedi e tswa e ya filling station. Ya boraro e tsena mo

butchareng. Ya bone e tsena mo lapeng. Ga ke na go le bolelela gore ya ga mang. Ke

tsaya gore Motlotlegi o a itse gore access roads di ya kwa ga mang. Ya kgotleng ke a le

tlhalosetsa. Jaanong, ka gore ga re a tshwanela go bua ka batho ba ba seyong fa, mme ba

ba yang kwa Letlhakeng ba a itse gore go tewa mang yo access roads mo motseng di

yang kwa ga gagwe, kwa dikgwebong tsa gagwe, mme go sena tse di yang kwa

dikokelong.

Se sengwe se ke eletsang go bua ka sone Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ke gore,

ke lebogela gore fa tsela…
MR RAKHUDU: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. Kana Motlotlegi o a bo a

bua dikgang tse o bonang gore di mo thuba pelo, mme a bolelela Palamente e gore e itse.

Ga re ise re re o mo tshekong. Jaanong re a bo re sa itse gore fa e tlaa re a bolelela

Palamente ka fa a utlwileng botlhoko ka teng go tseelwa gore o batla gore Palamente fa e

ntse e isa tsone ditsela tse kwa pele Tona a itse gore a seka a di isa mo malapeng a

batho… Jaanong fa a bo a simolola a tsenya seteropo, mosola ke eng? Ke eng a ne bogolo

a sa ye go bua le Tona ba le babedi fela mo sephiring fa e le gore information e a e

tshotseng e ka mo kata tlhogo? Nna ke ne ke re a re tlhalosetse fa e le gore ga go senye.

MR MOKGWATHI: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ka fa nna ke

tlhaloganyang ka teng, mafoko a ke a buang fa ke ka seke ke be ke a tshwarelwe ke ope.

Motlotlegi Tona ene a tlhotlhomise a bone gore ditsela tseo di ya kwa ga mang, fa e le

gore gongwe Batlotlegi Mapalamente ba batla go itse. Fela se ke ka fetang ka sone ke

gore, fa e ka ba ya re tsela e dirwa, ka gore ke kgaolo ya ga… se salang ke gore go na le

didiba tse di phunngwang e le gore di tsile go dira tsela. Didiba tse Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke tlaa baya sekai ka sengwe sediba se se saleng se dirwa tsela

e sa ntse e le ya gravel, se le kwa Tshwaane, 4 kilometres from Tshwaane. Mme baagi ba

Tshwaane e ne ya re tsela e e sena go fela ba kopa go dirisa sediba seo ka gore se

phuntswe gape mo masimong a bone. Ba le eteng le tsamaye, ka kwa molemeng ke

sediba, ka kwa mojeng ke masimo. Mme beng ba masimo ao ba kopa gore sediba se ba se

neelwe ke khansele, ba se gokele ba nose leruo la bone. Ga felela gotwe ke sa tsela, mme

gompieno jaaka ke bua jaana Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, sediba

seo ke sa ba Box 33, Mabutsane, ba ditlhothomiso tsa rona di supang fa e ne e le bangwe

ba ba neng ba amana le ba ba neng ba dira tsela eo. Le fa e le gompieno jaana, kgang e e
sale e rutha ka nako ya fa Motlotlegi Mokgothu a sa ntse a le Mopalamente. Ba ne ba

kopa gore tlhaloso e nne teng ya gore didiba tse fa di tla, le fa e le Batswana botlhe, ba ba

neng ba amega, masimo a bone a felela a jewa ke dikgomo tse di tswang Mabutsane,

bone ba sena seabe mo sedibeng se ba ne ba se kopile…

MADAM SPEAKER: Order! Standing Order 63(1), when a bill has been read a first

time, the next stage shall be a motion “That the bill be read a second time.” On this

motion the general merits and principles, but not the details, of the bill may be debated.

Jaanong re a ne re bua ka didiba. Nna ke ipotsa gore gatwe tota fa e le gore ga gona se

re ka se buang se se relevant, tota ke eng re sa fetse ra fetela kwa business e nngwe ka

okare re na le business e ntsi thata? Jaanong, please come back.

MR MOKGWATHI: Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Kana fela jaaka Motlotlegi Kedikilwe a ne a bua, re bua ka bread and butter issues tse di

tswang mo projecteng e.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A o nganga le Speaker?

MR MOKGWATHI: Ga ke ngange le Speaker, ke ka seke ke ngange le wena

Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Se ke lekang go se tlhalosa ke gore,

bomosola jwa tsela e, bo fetile go agiwa ga tsela. Didiba di teng di dintsi Motlotlegi

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, mme fela jaaka Batlotlegi ba bangwe ba buile,

jaaka Honourable Kwelagobe a ne a bua, a didiba tse di felele di nna le mosola mo

baaging ba kgaolo le Batswana gore ba di dirise, di seka tsa felela jaanong di sa dirisiwe.

A e re tsela e fela…

MR MOATLHODI: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. Ke a leboga Motlotlegi

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, e bile ke lebogela thata Motlotlegi Mokgwathi,
Mopalamente wa Letlhakeng Botlhaba. Ke rata go itse mo go the Honourable Member

holding the floor gore, kopo ya sediba se, a e kopilwe ke syndicate. Ke gore batho ba

kgaolwana eo ba ipopile. Ka tlotlo le tlhompho ke go utlwile Motlotlegi Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente gore re seka ra ganelela kwa ntle go na le kwa teng. Ke go

utlwile morena wame, ke ikobile. Ke na le kgatlhego thata mo ntlheng e Motlotlegi a e

buileng. Ke rata go itse gore, a batho ba…

MR RAKHUDU: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Ke a go leboga Madam Speaker,

le tshireletso e e kalo-kalo. Ka fa kitsong yame ya ditsamaiso tsa Ntlo e, fa wena mogolo

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente o rile re seka ra bua ka sengwe, ga re se

kokomele. Re tloga re go dira motho yo o bogale go re feta. Fa o rile re tswe kwa

didibeng tsone tse, jaanong we are out of order fela fa re boela kwa didibeng tsone tseo.

MR MOKGWATHI: Ke a kopa Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ka boikokobetso

fela, ke leka gore ke e nyalanye le project e. Jaanong se se salang ke gore, didiba tse are

part of the project. Jaanong ra re mosola wa tsone o tsile go felela e nna eng mo bathong.

Fa e le gore tsela e a fela, a go seka ga direga jaaka re a tle re bone didiba tse di felela di

tsewa ke ditsala, syndicates di kopile. Honourable Moatlhodi, ke na le file e e supang ka

sediba se gore le bone ba Water Affairs ba mpoleletse gore ba utlwile fela, khansele e sa

itse, land board e sa baya batho ba go nna jalo. Tsamaiso ya re, e bo batho ba filwe

lefatshe, mme ga ba a fiwe lefatshe leo. Jaanong, ke dilo tse di teng. Ga ba na le fa e le

certificate sa Land Board, le fa e le records tsa Land Board ga di yo, mme ba ba neng ba

kopile e le syndicate bone ba gannwa. Ke sa ntse ke tsile go e sala morago le yone. Ka

lebaka leo, ke ne ke re, a jaanong go tle go felelwa go dirwa sentle.

Transportation, kana go dira tsela e jaanong go tlaa bo go bula gore …(interruption)…
Gompieno re ntse re sena transport, re sena dibase. Gompieno go botoka go na le dibase

tse di yang ko bo Takatokwane. Mme go bula foo go tshwanetse go nne le dibus. Bothata

jo re nang najo, le bone jaaka go buiwa ka citizen empowerment, ke gore go na le

information e e teng e e supang gore ba bangwe ba ba neng ba applaile gore ba tsenye

dikhombi moo, o felela a kwalelwa lekwalo gotwe, re lebetse gore mo Gazette re bo re

kwala dinako tse o tsamayang ka tsone, jaanong go raya gore o ikopela sesha. Formo e a

e tladitseng e supa diformo, go na le gore in the next Gazette go bo go tsentswe, motho o

felela a boaboa teng koo, ba bo ba tsena kwa diofising tsa rona. Jaanong, a e re ka gore

tsela e e ne e leka go tokafatsa seemo sa matshelo a batho, dilo tsa go nnaa jaana di

tokafadiwe. If you want additional information I can come to your office Madam.

E nngwe ke ya tiriso. Tsela e fa e agiwa, e dirisa konkoreite, ga ke reye e e dirang

sekontiri, ke raya e e alwang pele ga go tshelwa sekontiri. Pele ga go dirwa tiripata, ke

tsaya gore le a rialo Motlotlegi.

Jaanong matlapa a a dirisiwang a tsewa ko Takatokwane mme se re se tlhaloganyang re

le baagi ba kgaolo through community based organisations tse re di agileng e le trusts tsa

bo tsa kwadisiwa with the Registrar of Deeds, thulaganyo e re e tlhaloseditsweng ke gore

motse wa Takatokwane jaaka o le under Thokwane Trust, meamuso yotlhe e e leng foo e

laolwa ke Thokwane Trust e e leng gore fa e dirisiwa le bone ba tshwanetse ba atswe

sengwe mo teng. Mme fa konteraka e ya go tsaya mebu le matlapa e a e dirisang foo, go

sena seabe sa batho ba ba ruileng lefatshe leo, thulaganyo e tshwanetse e nne teng ya gore

le bone ba nne le seabe. Re a itse fela gore thulaganyo ya lefatshe la Botswana ya re go

nne meamuso e e akaretsang mongwe le mongwe. Mme tlhaloso e re e filweng kafa

molaong ke gore fa le le trust, se le se ruileng ga se tsewa le na le kafa le atswiwang ka
teng. Jaanong selo se se tshwanetse se baakanngwe; re tlhaloganye gore jaaka go tsewa

matlapa mo lefatsheng le kafa molaong le filweng trust, a bone ga ba a tshwanelwa go

atswiwa ka sepe.

E nngwe e ke eletsang go bua ka yone, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke kgang

ya gore fa go na le ko re ka kopang teng madi a a dituelo tsa teng di leng ko tlase ebile go

le motlhofo go di dira, rona ba re sa ntseng re saletse ko kgakala, ke a kopa Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente le Tona e e lebaganeng gore kgaolo ya rona le a itse gore ke

kgaolo e e thata go le kana ka eng. Re solofetse gore bill e e fete mme le boele gape kwa

Machaeneng, ditsela tsa rona tse di sa tsamaegeng tsa bo Salajwe di thusiwe. Batho ba

Salajwe ke tlhaloganya gore Tona o a itse gore ba ile ba botsa mo phuthegong ya kgotla

gore naare ga twe tsela ke bokae, bogolo re rekise dikgomo tsa rona re e ikagele. Ditsela

tsa go nna jaana fa madi le kgona go ya go a bona, ke ditsela tse di bulang bojanala

(tourism). Le a itse, on average about sixty thousand o a dirwa ka tsela ya

Letlhakeng/Khutse a tsena mo revenue ya Letlhakeng e le madi a tourism. Mme ditsela

ga di agiwa di nna teng jaaka re ntse re bua ka tourism jaana, go tokafatsa itsholelo ya

rona. Batho jaanong ba ba kgonang go ya koo ba tlaa bo ba sa tsamaye fela ka di 4 x 4 tse

re di bonang di tswa ko bo South Africa le ngwana wa Motswana yo o tsamayang ka

karanyana e nnyennyane o tla kgona gore a tsamaye teng itsholelo e bo e nna teng, re bo

re bula le tsela ele. Jaanong ke ne ke kopa gore Motlotlegi yo o lebaganeng le ditsela,

kgang e le yone e lebelelwe go bonwe gore ditsela tsa rona di a tokafadiwa. Kgaolo ya

Letlhakeng East nnete ke gore ga e na le fa e le tsela ya sekontere. Ga go na constituency

epe mo lefatsheng la Botswana e e tshwanang le kgaolo ya Letlhakeng East e e tlhokang

sekontere. Mme fela se se diragalang ke gore fa o tsaya Botlhapatlou e le 15 kilometres
go tswa mo tseleng ya Molepolole/Lephephe o bo o tsena mo Ngware 20 kilometres, o

tsena mo Malwelwe 15 kilometres, o tsena mo Letlhakeng 24 kilometres, ga go fete 96

kilometres. Mme fa e le gore madi a a kana a ka nna teng from MaChina, a dikgaolo tse

di nang le population tsa bo over 2,000 le tsone tse re itseng gore maphata a mangwe a

tlile go tsenya motlakase, a tlile go aga junior secondary schools, a ditsela tse le tsone di

golaganngwe, just to inject life in that area. Jaanong rona se re se kopang ke gore a go

tlhwaafalelwa selo sa go nna jalo.

E nngwe e ke eletsang gore ke bue ka yone ke tlhokomelo ya tsela. Foo jaanong ke tlaa

bo ke ngongoregela bagaetsho. Tsela e ya Letlhakeng/Dutlwe fela jaaka re tlhola re ntse

re kopa gore a ditsela di tsenngwe diterata, fa o ka tsamaya ka yone, ke tsaya gore

Motlotlegi Nagafela o a lemoga gore tsela e ga e tlhokomelesege. Terata mo dehekeng e

robegile. Dikgomo di robala mo tseleng; terata e ole along the road. Ga go na tlhokomelo

e e leng teng. Jaanong re a tle re leke go ba tlhalosetsa gore jaanong le tlaa re paledisa

gore re kope dithuso kwa ga Goromente ka gore se le se filweng le felela le sa se dirise

sentle. Jaanong ke ne ke ikuela mo go Motlotlegi gore a kope baagi ba kgaolo bogolo

jang ba kgaolo ya gagwe gore ba tlhokomele tsela, diterata di tlhokomelwe. Jaanong

mme fa o ka di bona gompieno o ka re ga e ncha…

MR MOATLHODI: Ke kopa tlhaloso. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo e bile ke

lebogela thata tsala ya me, Motlotlegi Mokgwathi. Ke ne ke re le mororo ke dumelana le

wena thata gore tsela di tshwanetse tsa tlhokomelwa, ga agiwa diterata tsa ba tsa

tlhokomelwa, a Motlotlegi o a lemoga gore nngwe ya menangwana e re kileng ra e

ngunanguna ya gore morafe o re thuse go tlhokomela ditsela ke gore e re ha re ka fitlhela

dikgomo di le mo tseleng, leruo le robetse mo tseleng kampo le tletse mo tseleng la thula
koloi ya mongwe, la golafatsa motho, dikgomo tseo must be shot on sight? A monagwana

fa e le gore Motlotlegi o a o itse, a ga a bone go tshwanela gore ke mongwe yo re ka o

salang morago gore ditsela di tle di babalesege di sena leruo?

MR MOKGWATHI: Ke eletsa gore e re mo Palamenteng e ya bo nine ke bo ke

ntshitse motion o o reng bana ba toropo kana batho-setoropo ba ba neng ba re koloi tsa

bone fa di thula dikgomo tse e leng botshelo jwa rona, molao o, ba boele ka morago. Ke

mongwe wa batho ba ke dumelang gore selo sa ntlha, pele ga motho a nna le licence o ya

go tlhatlhobiwa tlhaloganyo, matlho, boboko, pelo, sengwe le sengwe. Koloi ya gagwe

pele ga e tsena mo tseleng is tested for road worthiness gore a e na le dipone, e na le

mabriki e na le eng gore e re a bona dikgomo tsa rona tse re tshelang ka tsone, ka gore tsa

bone di ko dipolaseng, a borike tlhaloganye e bereke. Jaanong fa e le gore molao o o

teng, o dirilwe ke batho gongwe ditlhaloganyo tsa bone e nngwe e ne e tshwamogile with

all due respect. Ka gore ha motho a na le tlhaloganyo ga re a borike, dikgomo di tswe mo

tseleng a fete. Ke tsaya gore ke go arabile. Mme se ke lekang go se supa ke gore mabapi

le tlhokomelo ya tsela ke gore mo ditseleng tse dingwe re bona go na le dikoloi tse go

tweng livestock patrol vehicles. Jaanong ke ne ke re, a le mo tseleng tse di ntseng jaana

go nne le livestock patrol vehicles lefa o ka re jaanong di oketsa gore batho ba seka ba

tlhokomela leruo. Ga ke re batho ba seka ba tlhokomela leruo, Motlotlegi ka gore ga go

na ope yo o ka reng a tshela ka kgomo e se ko polaseng jaaka tsa bontsi ba lona ba

dikgomo tsa bone di nna ko dipolaseng le sa itse gore kgomo e hula fa kae, ra bo re helela

e le gore o tlaa ya go thula tonki ya motho kapo kgomo e le gore gongwe ke ya bofelo.

Re tla re bua ka national policy mme go supa gore over 87 percent ya Batswana ba na le

dikgomo tse which are less than 50. Jaanong dikgomo ke tsone tse di seng ko dipolaseng.
Fa e le gore re rata Batswana ba, borika koloi le wena dirisa tlhaloganyo le matlho gore

dikgomo di tswe mo tseleng o fete. Jaanong se salang ke ne ke re, fa nkabo ke ne ke

kgona, nkabo ke re I move, jaanong I do not want to move, gongwe yo mongwe will

move. Mme fela ga ke bone lebaka la gore e re fa go setswe go dumalanwe gore ditsela di

nne teng, bogolo jang e le la ntlha re nkutlwisa gore re nne le sekontere ke bo ke le

mongwe wa ba nkareng…

MR RAKHUDU: Elucidation, Mr Speaker. Ke a go leboga Rre Mokgwathi. Nna ke

ratile thata fa o bua gore jaaka go dirwa ditsela tse jaana, le tsela tsa bo Salajwe di dirwe.

Mme ke batla go tsaya sebaka se gore ke kope Motlotlegi gore a ko e re fa le ntse le

tshwere diphuthego jaana le gakologelwa Batswana ba ba nnang gone ko bo Salajwe,

kana e bo e tlaa re fa re sena go dira yone tsela yone e, ba bo ba ya go bolelela Survival

International, re bo re huhula go twe jaanong re a bo re senya re isa dilori, re senya

environment, e re fa le bua jaaka re riana jaana, le re thuse bogale jo bo tla tswang gone

ka koo.

MR MOKGWATHI: Ga ke ise gore ke arabele kgang e ka gore e tshwanetse e le gore

with all due respect re akgole gore Survival International e tsene mo ka lebaka la gore

mongwe o ne a itlhokomolositse boikarabelo jwa gagwe jwa go reetsa batho fa ba bua. E

tsene ka lebaka la gore mongwe o ne a itlhokomolositse matshwenyego a batho. Jaanong

ga ke batle go tsena mo go yone ka gore e re isa go sele, ke ne ke kopa gore Batlotlegi re

e tlogele.

MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT (DR NASHA): Ke kopa go tlhalosa

sengwe, comrade. Ke ne ke re, gone bagaetsho kana it is a fact gore batho bangwe fa o re

a tlhabolola o itsenya mathata. Gompieno re kgapha sethitho ko Maun ko go senang
Survival International re re re dira tsela e e yang sepatela, ga twe re senya environment,

kana „mowana‟ o ga o bolo go nna fa, 200 years jaanong re a senya. Re tshwere bothata

Rre Mokgwathi, ke raya gore gongwe ga se Survival hela mme gone ke batla go le

ruruhaletsa, ke baya example e le nngwe fela mme di tletse-tletse le lefatshe le

mokaulengwe.

MR MOKGWATHI: Ke a leboga, Motlotlegi. Ke tsaya gore le setse le lemogile gore

nna ga ke mongwe yo e leng gore ga go dirwa sentle, ke a tle ke re ga go dirwe sentle. Fa

e le selo se na le mosola mo sechabeng, ke a tlhalosa gore nnyaa Goromente o a leka

mme o palelwa fa. Jaanong go na le ba bangwe ba eleng gore they are just critics, they

always see what is wrong. Jaanong I am not that type. Jaanong fela se se salang ke ne ke

re, nna ke lebogela gore re bo re buile ka kgang e. Mme gongwe ke tloga ke nna selfish,

mme re ne re sa tshwanela gore re e bue ka boleele jo bo kana. E re file sebaka sa gore le

rona re akgele. Ke a leboga, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR MOATLHODI (TONOTA SOUTH): Ke a go leboga thata Motlotlegi Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ke tlaa bua ka bokhutshwane. Ke rata ke supe kemo-nokeng

ya me mo molao-kakanyetsong o Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona wa Madi le Ditlhabololo a re

o beileng pele. Lefatshe leno le dirile bontle. Ke rata ke kope ke ikobile thata fa tlase ga

tlhako tsa gago, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente gore ka Setswana ra re “mafoko

nkgwana a a garelwa”. Ke tlaa leka go garela ka boripana mme ka botswerere, ke kopa

gore o seka wa nkgalema ka bogale, Morena wa me. Lefatshe leno le dirile botswerere

thata kafa ntlheng ya tlhabololo ya ditsela fa e sale re tsaya boipuso. Bogolo jang ko

dikgaolong fa re itshwantshanya le ba re bapileng nabo, dikgaolo tsa rona di tlhabologile

thata, ditsela tsa rona tse di yang ko dikgaolong di tlhabologile thata. Ke gone ka mo e
reng ha go batliwa any information, mma ke fe sekai, pertaining to the spread of

HIV/AIDS, go bonola go bona dipalo tse di tsewang ko Sekondomboro, go bonolo go

bona dipalo tse di tswang ko Seronga, Kokotsha, Gulushabe, Ramotlabaki, Chaukeng ka

lebaka la gore go ditsela tse di kgonang go tsamaega. Ga ke re ditsela tsa rona di 100

percent mme fela ka re bontsi jwa tsone di a tsamaega. Mme ke gone ka mo e a reng ga

re bona matsana a go tweng a ya go dira tsela re leke go bua gore magano a rona a bo a

phaphalele ka lebaka la gore tsela ke botshelo. Fa batho ba ya go batla dikgong ba

tsamaya ka tsela; fa batho ba ya go batla botshelo ba tsamaya ka tsela, ke sone se se reng

sedibeng go iwa ka tsela.

Ka ntlha ya bobedi ke leboge thata bakaulengwe ba me Mapalamente go supa

matshwenyego a a kanakana mo ditseleng tsa rona. Kana go raya gore bakaulengwe,

Mapalamente ba rerisanya ebile ba tsaya matshwenyego a batho le mororo le bone tota ba

e tla ba bona gore ditsela di maswe fa kae. Mme bontsi jwa dingongorego tse ba di buang

ke dingongorego tse ba di tsayang ko batlhophing ba rona, ko barongweng ba rona. Tsone

dingongorego tse, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo ke tsone tse di yang go re dira gore e re ha re

bua re tlhoke poifo gore a mongwe o tlaa re omanya; mme re kampo ra bolawa fa e le

gore mongwe o ikaelela go re bolaya, ka jaana re bua ka ditshwanelo tsa batho. Re batla

go bona batho ba lefatshe le, itsholelo ya lefatshe le ba e akola and bontlha bongwe jo ba

ka e akolang ka one ke go remelwa ditsela tse di tsamaegang.

Ke tshwenyega thata Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ka dikopo tsa

kago ya ditsela, ka ga petlo ya ditsela di tlang ka bonya ka teng mo Palamenteng ena. Ka

the Eighth Parliament go kopilwe madi ka tsela e le nngwe fela ya Middlepits-Rakops,

bakaulengwe ba ka ntshupela. Middlepits-Bokspits, sediba sa ga Bok. Ke yone fela kopo
e ke e boneng ka Eighth Parliament, le fa o utlwa yo a re o hora mang ga a kake a ema a

re o bone e …(interruption).

MADAM SPEAKER: Order Honourable Member, o rata go buela ko thoko Motlotlegi.

MR MOATLHODI: Kana ke gore ba a ntshwenya. Ke lebogela go bo o ntshireletsa

Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke se ngapiwa se ingapela, ke tlaa ba

ingapela. Ke lebogela go bo o ntshireletsa.

Ke yone fela kopo e ke e boneng ya tsela e e agiwang go tswa ko Middlepits go ya ko

Bokspits. Mme re tshwanetse re bone, ke go kope Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona, gore fa

itsholelo ya rona e sa ntse e re letla jaana re batla go bona dikopo tsa madi tse di agang;

go a go betlwa ditsela go a go rengwa ditsela di le di ntsi thata. Mma ke fe sekai, ke fa

sekai fela Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Fa o tswa ko motseng wa

Borolong, o o bidiwang Tlhalogang ka mantswe a mangwe, go tsela e e tswang ko

Borolong e tsena ka motse wa Shashemooke e tsamaya e ralala naga ke ele e ya go tsena

ka motse wa Mmandunyane, re batla go bona madi a le mantsi a a tlhabololang ditsela tse

di tshwanang le e. Ka gore fa tsela e e betlilwe e tshasitswe sekontere e ka kgona go

tshwaraganya motse wa Mathangwane, motse wa Chadibe, motse wa Borolong, motse wa

Makobo, motse wa Matale le wa Tonota ka bofofe ka ke sub-district. Mme ga se yone

fela, re batla go bona tsela e e tswang ko motseng wa Mokubilo e raletse e feta ka

Dimajwe e ya go tsena ko motseng wa Serowe. Dilo tse, madi a re batla go bonwa a

kopiwa go thuswa Ministry wa Local Government, because Ministry wa Local

Government is a service provider. Ga ba kgone gotlhelele sechaba; go engwa ngwaga le

ngwaga go emetse Ministry wa Local Government go twe o tlaa, ba na le phologolo ko

Ministry of Local Government. Phologolo e tonatona e e mariririri e mpe e e nkgang e
bidiwa go twe funds permitting. Mme phologolo e e ka bolawa fela ke madi; ga isiwa

madi ko lephateng o go na le madi a a nnang a kopiwa, kana lerotse la makopiwa ga le

na…

MR REATILE: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. Tlaa ke go leboge

mokaulengwe Motlotlegi Pono Moatlhodi. Ke ne ke re ke botse gore dikgang tse di

ntlentle tse mokaulengwe a di tshwereng tsa bo-Mmandunyane le bo-Serowe tota di

amana jang le bill e e leng mo tafoleng gompieno?

MR MOATLHODI: Fa e ne e le gore o itse Setswana, ke tlhalositse ka re ke fa sekai. E

bile ke tlhalositse ka re mafoko nkgwana a a garelwa, ke tseela gore le wena o le

Mokgalagadi jaana o ne o nkutlwa. Ke ne ke bua Setswana fela se e leng gore le kwa

Mabutsane le a se bua.

Ke a tshwenyega thata Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ke ntse ke

tsweletse ke fa sekai, mafoko nkgwana a a garelwa. Ke tshwenngwa ke tsela e Lephata

leno la Ditsela, Ministry of Works and Transport, I am haunted by the way they prioritise

the construction of the rebituminisation of the roads in this country, that it does not

worry me; it haunts me, it haunts me, it torments me. Mme ke fe sekai ka tsela e e tswang

mo Tonota e ya Francistown e ya ko mololwaneng wa rona le Zimbabwe. Tsela e e leng

gore is one of the busiest roads in this country,Tonota Francistown up to Ramokgwebana

border, mme ga e tlhokomelwe e ntse magorogoro ka segaetsho. Fa o re o lebelela

maikaelelo a bone e tswa go bewa at the last leg of the Development Plan. Mme golo mo

go a re tshwenya thata ke a kopa gore ditsela tse e leng gore they are busy jaaka tsela e di

tshwanetse ka tsweetswee tsa ne di fefogelwa. Gongwe ntlha ya me ya bofelo e ke tlaa e

buang Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, fela jaaka bakaulengwe ba me
ba ba buileng pele game, gongwe le ba ba sa ntseng ba tlaa bua, ke tshwenngwa ke tsela,

tsela e ka yone e reng fa koteraka e hirwa, ka 2001 go ne go dirwa Serule-Tonota ka P88

million, ke ne ka ngongorega thata gone fa. E le gore mo tseleng e dikonteraka tse di

hirilweng that were subcontracted ke South Africans. E bile ko Tonota banana ba ba ba

ba bitsa maina ba re „e sale e ngata ka ntle,‟ whatever that meant I do not know, mme ke

utlwa gore ke dipuo tse di neng di buiwa bosigo. Mme se ke lekang go se tlhalosa ke gore

go phoso e bile go botlhokotlhoko gore e re ditiro di tsile mo Botswana fa di tshwanetse

di tle Batswana ba akole borakonteraka ba bo ba tla ba rwele ordinary labourers. Ke bile

ka ba ka itseela tshwetso Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, I rolled my

own sleeves ka ya go bona baeteledipele ba Lephata la Khiro, ke lwa jaaka thakadu yo

motonanyana. Ba ne ba leka legale ba ntsha bangwe; ka gore fa o re o lebelela list ya

batho ba ba hirilweng o fitlhela e le gore motho yo o bidiwa ka leina fela le e leng gore o

ka re motho a na le dithutothuto mme a dirile Standard Three; ka re bona tlhe motho yo o

dirile Form Five, yo o dirile Form Three, yo e bile o na le Degree, and ra ba ntsha. Mme

se ke lekang go se bua ke gore re batla go bona Lephata le la Ditiro Motlotlegi

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, fela jaaka go twe tender has been awarded tsela e

ya go dirwa, whatever project e ya go dirwa as long e dirwa mo Botswana, Botswana is

not Honolulu, Czechoslovakia, or Timbuktu, gongwe koo ba tlogela mongwe le mongwe

a bereka, fa re batla go bona e le Batswana ba tsentse diatla.

Ntlha ya bofelo e ke reng ke e bue ke e Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Ke a dumela ka botlalo thata gore Motlotlegi Rraetsho Tona a fiwe tetla madi

a a a bone tsela e dirwe. Mme kopo ya me, tota ke gogoba ka mangole Motlotlegi
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, maphata a a amegang bagaetsho tswaang kana ka

moso la re re a ...

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: On a point of elucidation Madam Speaker. Ke a leboga

Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ke leboge mokaulengwe wa me wa

tsala ya me Motlotlegi Moatlhodi gore a bo a mphile tetla ya gore ke gakolole gore kana

gompieno mafatshe a a leng teng ga re tlhole re na le Czechoslovakia re na le lefatshe le

le reng Czech Republic, a Slovakia a go sele a farologanye.

MR MOATLHODI: I accept the correction more so that you are a former diplomat, ga

ke gakgamale you are better informed than me. I wholeheartedly accept the correction.

Mme se ke neng ke se bua Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke gore

jaaka madi a tswa jaana tsela e ya go dirwa re kopa go bona bagaetsho Batswana ba

sirelediwe. Re kopa go bona Batswana ba sirelediwa, ga re re where Batswana do not

qualify teng ba tsenngwe, ka gore ga ntsi fa re bua jaana ke a itse, go na le tsala ya me e

ke e ratang thata ka pelo ya me yotlhe o tlaa bo a re yah the gentleman is beginning to be

xenophobic again, yo ke mo ratang thata. Mme ga ke bue xenophobia ke leka gore ka

tsweetswee bagaetsho a re sireletseng Batswana. Ke lebogile Motlotlegi Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION

(LT. GEN. MERAFHE): Thank you Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I will be very

brief. In this brevity I want to say that I support this bill. Why do I support it? I support it

because it is going to open up that part of the country which is the western part, which

has for a long time not been linked to the eastern part of the country where the main

economic activity seems to be taking place. The provision of road infrastructure into that

area is something that all of us should really welcome.

I would like to associate myself with the comments that have been made by some of my

colleagues about the need to ensure that in negotiating conditions of loans, such as the

one that we got from the Chinese, we should try and make sure that we curve a niche for

us as Batswana so that these developments benefit us. I entirely agree with this, but all

said and done and in the final analysis it is the people who provide the funds who have to

determine the conditions under which these funds should be provided. Madam Speaker,

he who pays the piper calls the tune. Ko Domkrag fa re rekile pina re batla gore go

opelwe yone eo e o e rekileng, ko khonsateng. Batho ba are the ones who are providing

money; we must appreciate that whilst we can do the best we can to ensure that they

come up with conditions in which there is a win-win situation. We must accept that in the

final analysis it is their word which is going to prevail. As I said the other day, we must

not lose sight of the fact that these people have their own constituencies, they tax their

people in order to help countries that are still in need of development such as ours.

To this extent Madam Speaker, I would want to thank the Chinese most profoundly

for their generosity in terms of the conditions of this loan. There are not many good

Samaritans in this world today, if you think you can get better conditions much better
than the ones that are being offered by the Chinese I can tell you, you are trying to shoot

at a man in the moon.

Madam Speaker, I think it is fact gore all the issues that have been said, all the issues that

needed to be said in support of this Bill have been eloquently articulated by colleagues of

mine who spoke before me. I just want to take advantage of the opportunity offered by

this debate to underline one or two points; one being to ensure that the roads that we

build are of good quality, and that the width is such that we really should not be

expecting vehicles to be coming so close to each other upon take off. I really feel and feel

very strongly that as a nation, by way of self-criticism, as government, we are too

conservative, very-very conservative. Why cannot we just spoil ourselves in the interest

of necessity, to have a dual carriage running from Ramatlabama to Ramokgwebana fela

re sa ntse re na le madinyana a diteemane batho ba modimo, why cannot we that? People

tell me that the traffic volumes do not warren this, those who advocate for this position

obviously do not know this country well enough.

MR MOKGWATHI: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. Ke a leboga

Motlotlegi. Ke lebogela gore o bo o bua gore ke eng re sa spoile, mme ke gakologelwa

mafoko a ga Motlotlegi Tautona wa pele yo o neng a re fa go ntse jalo a re mme lona le

botoka le na le sengwenyana a re bone ba ba senang sepe. Ke gore ke ne ke re o di

nyalanye.

LT. GEN. MERAFHE: Bagaetsho, there are people who say nnyaa, if there is a need to

improve the flow of traffic in Gaborone, we should go at a snail‟s pace because there is

some part of Mahalapye where there is no tarmac road. We must do one thing at a time,

we cannot be everywhere at the same time. This is an unrealistic expectation Honourable
Member. When I drive from Mahalapye to Gaborone, it takes me one hour 20 minutes to

get to Phakalane and one hour 20 minutes to get to my house in town. Can you imagine

the opportunity costs? And I am not alone. Whilst I am crawling there, who is servicing

this economy, what contribution am I making? Actually we are fast acquiring the dubious

distinction of being the Lagos of Southern Africa because traffic does not move in this

town, a small town like this. Quite honestly, we have to do something. There is no land in

Gaborone. If you can allow me to tour the horizon a bit Madam Speaker, there is no land

in Gaborone. Why can we not go up? Why should somebody who is driving from

Mochudi to Lobatse have to go through all these traffic circles which are found in

Botswana under the roads that were designed by Makgoa and traffic signs that you do not

find in England? The import of my statement is that in designing these roads, we must

take into account the present realities of the volume of traffic in this country and the

number of head on collisions because of our young people who become very impatient

and overtake on blind spots. And sooner or later there is a head on collision and lives are

lost. If we had four lanes, those accidents will be completely minimised.

Let me also mention the question of maintenance. Bagaetsho, it is all very well spreading

this infrastructure all over the country, but if the infrastructure is not maintained, it is not

worth the inventory in which it is recorded. It is very important that having created roads,

we must make sure that these roads are really maintained. Bagaetsho, there is paucity of

resources le fa rre yo mongwe a ne a re ke bolwetse jo a sa bo feng sebete. The truth of

the matter is that there is paucity of resources, in other words, we do not have enough

money. I feel very strongly gore we must make sure that these roads of ours are self-

financing. The roads must be self-financing Madam Speaker. I do not know why we
cannot introduce tolls. Road tolls are found all over the world, I do not know why we are

shying away from these road tolls. Road tolls will enhance our capacity not only to build

more roads but to maintain the current roads. Why should I have to pay so much to

maintain roads in South Africa through road tolls and South Africans come here with

their big trucks, tearing our roads right across the country going to Malawi, Democratic

Republic of Congo and all other places and they do not pay anything. Nnyaa, I really

would want to plead with my colleague the Minister responsible for this portfolio to

really expedite this process of road tolls. I know that there are some opponents of this

proposal, but we cannot be grounded because of one or two minority views.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks I support the Bill.
MINISTER OF LABOUR AND HOME AFFAIRS (MAJOR GEN. PHETO): Ke a

go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Mme le nna ke emelela go galaletsa

Tona ya tsa madi le ditlhabololo le bodiredi ba gagwe gore ba bo ba buisantse le lefatshe

la China ka kgang ya gore ba ka re adima madi ka morokotso o mmotlana go le kana.

Selo se se botlhokwa thata se ke se lebogelang gape ke gore, kgaolo e ya Letlhakeng

Bophirima, kgotsa bogare ba yone le Kang, jaanong go tlaa re khutshwafaletsa thatathata

gore tsela e ya Letlhakeng-Dutlwe-Morwamosu e bo e le gore jaanong e tlaa fefosa

mosepele mo bogareng jwa Gaborone le mafelo a boGantsi le boNamibia. Mme bogolo

jang gape go tlaa tokafatsa matshelo a batho mo kgaolong yone e ya Letlhakeng

Bophirima ka gore jaanong tsa tlhaeletsanyo di tokafetse. Mme fa go ntse jalo, le

dikgwebo di tlaa nna le dipoelo ka gore jaanong tsela e ka fa e tlaa bong e dirisiwa ka

teng, bontsi jwa batho ba ba neng ba ka tsamaya ka kwa Jwaneng ba tlaa ralala bogare ba

Letlhakeng, Dutlwe le Motokwe go ya go kopana le tsela e e tswang ntlheng ya Jwaneng

kwa Morwamosu. Selo se se botlhokwa mo matshelong a batho, ke selo se e leng gore re

se lebogela thata go menaganye.

Se sengwe se se diragetseng gape se re tshwanetseng go se leboga mo tirong e ke gore,

yone kompone e ya China e e leng gore e bereka mo tseleng e mme e bile e dira ditsela

tse dingwe mo lefatsheng la Botswana, e hirile Batswana ba feta 900 ba e leng gore ba

tsentse diatla mo tirong e. Mme kana Motswana fa a le mongwe fela a bereka gone foo, o

na le bana ba ba ntsi le ba masika ba e leng gore ba na le se ba se selang mo tirong yone

e. Ke selo se se botlhokwa thata se re tshwanetseng gore re se lebogele. Mme jaaka fa

bangwe bakaulengwe ba ntse ba bua, le nna ke bona gore tota fa e leng gore madi a ka

bonwa teng, go botlhokwa gore re nne re kopanye mafelo a a farologanyeng a lefatshe la
Botswana, go se ka ga potologiwa. Jaaka fa gompieno jaana e le gore fa motho a tswa mo

Letlhakeng, bogologolo o ne a ya kwa Jwaneng pele, kgotsa a tle mo Molepolole a ye go

potologa kwa Thamaga, a ye go boa kwa Kanye ke gone a bo a boa gape a leba kwa

bophirimatsatsi a ya go wela kwa Kang. Jaanong gompieno, go botlhokwa thata gore le fa

motho a tswa kwa Mahalapye a batla go ya Gantsi kampo a batla go ya kwa Namibia, o

tlaa tsamaya ka tsela yone e. Mme se ke se buang Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente

ke gore, tota go botlhokwa gore metse e metona le dikgaolo ka go farologana, jaaka

boKgatleng jaana, di tshwanetse gore di lomaganngwe le boKweneng. Ene Kweneng

Bophirima gompieno jaana re e lomaganye le boHukuntsi ka kwa jaaka e le gore tsela e

gape e tlaa bo e lomaganya Morwamosu le boMotokwe, e boa e lomaganya gape

boDutlwe le boHukuntsi. Ke selo se se botlhokwa mo matshelong a batho. Le ba ba

batlang go dira kgwebo mo go yone, ba dipalamo, a ke tsa dibase kampo dicombi, ba ka

nna ba simolola ba nna le dikakanyo tse di sha tsa go bona gore a ga ba ka ke ba nna le

dikoloi tsa mesepele tse di ka palangwang ke morafe mo gare ga metse e re e bolelang e,

e le gore tsela e jaanong e lomaganya metse e mentsintsi. Ga se gore fa e lomagantse

Dutlwe le Morwamosu jaanong go raya gore ga e a lomaganya Dutlwe le Tsabong. E bile

gape e lomagantse Dutlwe le Gantsi, e lomagantse Dutlwe le boKalkfontein. Ke selo se

se botlhokwatlhokwa se e leng gore re se lebogela thata Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Gone go boammaaruri fa go kgonegang teng re tshwanetse go nna re sekaseka

ra se ka ra tlhajwa ke ditlhong gore dikompone tsa lefatshe le la Botswana le tsone di ka

nna le seabe mo tirong e tshwana le e. Gore fa e le gore re dira tiro e e kana ka madi a a

bogolo bo kana, dikompone dingwe tsa Botswana le tsone di tshwanetse gore di nne le

seabe mo go yone. Ke selo se re tshwanetseng go se sekaseka mo lebakeng le le tlang. Ke
tsaya gore e tlaa re fa go ntse go akanngwa, le kgaolo e ya Kweneng gape e tshwaragane

le ya Kgatleng. Motlotlegi Rakwadi Modipane o dumalana le nna thata, e bile o supa ka

botlalo fa nna le ene re dumalana.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ga ke batle go golola tlou le maroo, ke ne ke re a

re tswelele fela jalo, re nne re buisanye le ba ba ka re thusang ba re neela madi a a

adimilweng ka morokotso o mmotlana ka gore selo se se a re thusa gore re ka dira ditsela

tse di farologanang tse di ntsi. Mme gape go supa ka fa e leng gore botsalano ba rona le

lefatshe la China bo nonofileng ka teng. Ke a leboga.
MR KGATHI (BOBIRWA): Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ke

re le nna ke emele go pata ba ba buileng mabapi le dikgang tsa gore re sapote kopo e e

beilweng pele ya gore re fe Tona dithata tsa gore a ye go saenela madi kwa lefatsheng la

China.

Mme ke simolola ka go bua ke re, kgang e gongwe bangwe e ka re fa re e bua ba tseye o

ka re re bua dilo tse e leng gore ga di batlege go buiwa. Ke simolola ka go leboga

thotloetso le tshekegelo tsebe ya sechaba ka goromente wa phathi e e busang ya ga

Domkrag. Ke gatelela kgang ya gore ke leboge puso e e eteletsweng pele ke phathi ya ga

Domkrag bakeng sa gore, tota fa phathi e e iphile sebaka sa gore ya re e tlaa diragatsa

ditshwetso le ditsholofetso mo sechabeng le sechaba sone se e se busang ba se tlhophile,

go a lebosega gore re lemoge selo se gore dilo tse di tla ka tsamaiso ya phathi yone e le

puso yone e. Nna ke emela go leboga sone seo gore fa le le phathi e e busang le

solofeditse sechaba dingwe dilo tse di supagalang e le dikai, go a re re tseye sebaka re

bue dilo tse, re di supe. Kana ke maitlamo a a supilweng mo dibukeng le dipampiri

tsotlhe tsa puso le one maikano a phathi e re buang ka yone re re, e rile “re tlaa isa

ditlamelo kwa sechabeng.” Mme letsatsi leno re ema fa re batla go supa gore sengwe

sone se, ke sengwe sa dikai tse di supang gore phathi e e ipeileng fa pele ga sechaba e

diragatsa sone se e se fileng batho. Mme go supilwe le ka melawana e e teng, re

gakologelwa molawana wa Rural Development Policy. Sone se, ke sekao sa go supa gore

re setse morago tsamaiso le yone implementation ya rural development policy e e batlang

go supa gore e ise ditlamelo kwa bathong. Mme e bile ke re ke leboge Mopalamente wa

pele le fa bangwe ba ne ba mo kgala, Rre Mokgothu, yo e leng gore fa re bala le

dipampiri tsone tsa Palamente, go supagetse a tsamaile a buile ka kgang e. Ke gatelela
kgang e ka gore e nna jaaka o ka re fa o fetile o le foo o sa tlhole o le teng batho ba batla

gore ba go kgale, ba bue jaaka o ka re ga o ise o ko o bue ka dipuo tse.    …

Ke sone se ke reng toro ya gagwe tsatsi jeno e a supafala e dirafadiwa jaaka a sale a gatile

kgang e. Mme se se botlhoko ke gore ba ba tsereng fa morago ga gagwe ba tlaa tloga ba

tsaya kgang e ba e rwala ba feta ba e baya e kete o ka re tsela e e tla ka bone. Ke re tota a

re motlhoeng mme ditiro tsa gagwe re di leboge re leke go supa gore dikgang tse di

siame. Se se utlwisang botlhoko ke gore mafoko a tshwana a Motlotlegi Mokgwathi

(botlhoko ke gore leina la gagwe le ratile go bapa le leina la me, kgathi kwa bofelong)

dipuo tsa gagwe e le moemedi wa sechaba a bua ka seemo se se rotloetsang arogano ya

sechaba ka semorafe ke dipuo tse di utlwisang botlhoko tse a supang bangwe a re lona ba

botlhabatsatsi, lona ba ba rileng, ga go bope lefatshe. Re tlhophilwe fa re le baemedi ba e

leng gore sengwe sa dilo tse e leng gore re di ikanetse mo Palamenteng e ke gore re bope

sechaba. Mme nna ke re ke kgala yone kgang eo ya gore re leke gore re re re le baemedi

ba sechaba re aroganye sechaba ka tsela e e ntseng jaana. Mafatshe a mantsi a e leng gore

ba dirile tsamaiso ya federalism mo e leng gore go a twe ditsompelo tse di koo e tlaa nna

tsa tlhabololo ya batho ba ba koo, go supafala e le gore ga go a siama le e seng. Go ne go

ka seke go siamele lefatshe le ke sone se re lebogang boeteledipele ja puso e jo bo rileng

ja re rona re ka seke re tseye tsamaiso ya federalism ka gore se se tlaa dirwang jaaka mo

bo South Africa dimaene tsa Bafokeng tse e leng gore ke tsone tse di somarelang batho

bao. Jaanong sone seo ke sone se e leng gore fa e ne e le gore dipuo tse di tshwanang tsa

Borre Mokgwathi ke dipuo tse di neng di ka seka tsa aga lefatshe le, puso e rile sengwe le

sengwe e tlaa nna meamuso ya lefatshe le, le ba ba seyong ba ba koo ba senang sepe sa

meamuso, madi otlhe a a bonyweng ka meamuso ya lefatshe le a tlaa ba sologela
molemo. Ke sone se re reng re itumelela yone tsela e.

Motlotlegi Nagafela le ene ke re gongwe ke digress a bit, ke ne ke le ko Bobonong ka

weekend re le mo congressing ya Domkrag. Go ne go na le bana bangwe ba ba tswang

kwa Letlhakeng ba re ba itse Rre Nagafela. Ke ne ka ba botsa gore le mo itse ka eng. Ba

re motho yoo e ne e le tichara a betsa mo go makatsang. Ka re a le beletsa eng? Ba re o

ne a re opedisa pina ya sechaba e ne o ka re fa o eme attention wa itshikhinya o tlaa go

betsa a re pina ya sechaba ga e ke e re e opelwa o itshikhinye. Jaanong selo se…

MR MABILETSA: Point of clarification. Ke ne ke re Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa

Bobirwa a ko a re tlhalosetse gore go ruta pina ya sechaba le go betsa bana gore ba e

opele sentle le tsela e di amana jang? Ka fa go lebegeng a bua ka teng tota rre jaanong o

fapogile se e rileng kgantele wa kopa gore tota a re bue ka principles tsa Bill re fete. Ga

ke bone gore tota go amana jang le se a lekang go se bua.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …inaudible…

MR MABILETSA: Nnyaa. go obvious fela gore Madundwana ga a bue nnete.

MR GABORONE: Ke kopa tlhaloso. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Ke a leboga ka gore ke bona go tshwanela gore Honourable Mokgwathi a seo

fa re mo sireletse. Ke itheile ka re o ne a bua e le moemedi wa batho ba kgaolo ya gagwe,

a bua ka ditlhabololo tse di iseng di fitlhe teng tse e leng gore re a itse gore ga di ise di

fitlhe le fa puso e tsamaela go di isa koo. Mme gore gotwe fa a bua ka tsone o kgaoganya

Batswana, ke tsaya gore le ene Motlotlegi Kgathi o na le tshwanelo ya gore a bue ka

ditlhabololo tse di iseng di fitlhe kwa kgaolong ya gagwe.

MR KGATHI: Madam Speaker, ke ne ke kopa go tswelela ka gore tota ka re le mo

nakong ya go amenda Standing Orders gongwe re tsenye tsetla e e tlaa reng go tsenngwe
toloko ya gore fa motho a robetse e bo e lela e tle e mo tsose ka gore Motlotlegi

Mabiletsa ke tsaya gore gongwe o ne a sa ntse a itheeditse fa ke re ke digress a bit.

Jaanong ga ke tlhaloganye gore a ga a tlhaloganye gore go digress ke selo se se reng. Ke

ne ke tsenya kgang ya go supa gore ke re Motlotlegi Nagafela jaaka bana ba mmua gore e

ne e le tichara e e tlhwatlhwa a nabola batho. Mme ke ba botsa gore a le tsenya thupa fa

go reng, ba re fa re opela pina ya sechaba fa re ka itshikhinya re sa gagamala a re tsenye

thupa fela thata a re pina e ga e opelwe motho a itshikhinya. Jaanong ke makalela sone se

ke re e a re fa motho e tla e nna moemedi tsatsi jeno a ba a bua gore ene ga a opele pina

ya sechaba e le go supa sekai sa gore fa re le baemedi re tshwanetse go bopa sechaba. Ke

sone fela se ke neng ke leka go se supa gore ke fete ka sone.

MR MABILETSA: Ke kopa tlhaloso gape.

MR KGATHI: Ke ne ke kopa gore ke seka ka fa ope ka gore re batla go fetisa Bill e,

tsela e e fetele kwa Morwamosu ka bofefo jo bo rileng. O dia Borre Nagafela ka kgang e.

Ke re maikaelelo a se ke neng ke se bua ke re tsela e e tlaa tlisa tse dintle fela thata mo

kgaolong e, e tlile go leka gore e dirafatse gore ba ba nang le keletso ya dikgwebo tsa

dibase, dimausu kana tsa eng tse e leng gore di teng di tlile go runya di ba di nna teng. Ke

sone se ke reng ke lebogela selo se ka gore go tlaa nna le go chencha ga seemo ka fa se

leng ka teng. Mme ke re re gatelele kgang e e builweng ke bangwe ka rona ya cost

recovery gore a re kopeng ba lephata la ditsela gore mo dingwageng tsone tse five tsa

grace period a re emeng ka dinao gore ditsela a di duedisiwe jaaka re di dirisa. Re le

lefatshe la Botswana a re emeng ka dinao re leke gore re go sapote Tona wa ditsela gore o

kope madi re tsenye kgang e re duele ditsela. Fa o tswa fa o ya Petersburg kana Pretoria

madi a o a duelang a le mantsi fa o ka seka wa tsamaya o tsere madi a a lekaneng o ka
nna wa felela o patikega go ya kwa embassing ya Botswana kwa Pretoria o ya go kopa

dithuso o paletswe ke gore o duele madi a tsela. Ke re ke kopa gore a re lekeng gore re go

eme nokeng Tona re tle re kgone gore re dire ditsela re tle re duele.

Jaanong ke ne ke re se sengwe se sentle se se tlaa tlang ka ditsela tse ke go anamisa

tsamaiso ya tourism e e leng gore re bua le ba Lephata la Tourism gore a re rotloetseng

domestic tourism gore ka ditsela tsone tse re kgone gore re itse lefatshe la rona. Kana go a

makatsa o fitlhela Batswana ba sa itse kgaolo le metse ya bone mme ba felela ba itse

metse e e kwa ntle go gaisa metse e e mo lefatsheng le. Ke re a re amanyeng kgang e le

development ya domestic tourism.

Mme e bile gape se ke batlang gore ke se gatelele ke gore bone ba ba tsereng dithuso tsa

Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA) a re ipeyeng gore re tlile go ba

thusa mo go tseneng mo tsamaisong ya ditsela tse. Ke gakologelwa go ne go na le

mongwe yo e leng gore o ne a tsere madi a CEDA a tshwara ditlhapi, ga bo go ntshiwa

tendera ya ditlhapi mo khanseleng ba bo ba ya go neela motho o sele a tswa kwa ntle gore

a tle go sapolaya. Jaanong ke sone se re reng citizen economic empowerment e re

tshwanetseng gore re e dire a re lebaganyeng e le targeted, deliberate effort go leka go

thusa batho ba e leng gore ba tsere dithuso tsa madi a selo se se ntseng jalo.

Ke ne ke re ke fete ka kgang ya quality of roads. Ke gakologelwa nako nngwe Tautona

wa lefatshe le wa pele Rre Ra-Gaone a le kwa Bobonong batho ba bua mo kgotleng ba re

tsela ya Bobonong/Sefhophe e tshesanyane fela mo e leng gore motho o kgona go tlola a

e pote ka kwa. Jaanong e rile fa a e araba jaaka fa le ne le mo itse a re, re a itumela fa re

na le athletes tse di ka kgonang go tlola long jump e e kana. Ke bone ba re ba batlang ba

re ka ba isang kwa Olympics. Mme le seemo se tsatsi jeno ke na le tsholofelo ya gore le
fa Tona Ramsden a ka ya go buisa phuthego kgang e e ka nna ya tswa mme gongwe le

ene o ka nna a felela a arabile a re re tlhokana le long jumpers. Ke re quality of roads

batho betsho di oketsa seemo sa go ka nna le dikotsi mo lefatsheng le. A re lekeng go

meshara go bona gore bophara ja tsela bo oketsa likelihood ya dikotsi ka tsela e e ntseng

jang. Ke a dumela gore kgang ya bojalwa e tsenya lebaka la gore go ka nna le chance ya

gore go nne le dikotsi mme there are other several added factors tse e leng gore the

quality of the roads mo lefatsheng le ditsela di a itsoketsatsoketsa. Fa o tsamaya ka tsela e

e tswang mo Sefhophe e ya Bobonong dikhona tsa yone e tsamaya e nyokomanyokoma

fela mo e leng gore o ka seke o itse gore go dirafalang eng. Ke re batho betsho a ko re

tlhamalatseng ditsela re tle re tile dikotsi tse di ka dirafalang ka seemo se.

Se sengwe se se amang quality tsela bangwe ba buile ka yone ka bokete jo bo leele ke re

modesty wa rona re le lefatshe la Botswana mo e leng gore specifications re a di fokotsa.

Fa o tlola Martin‟s Drift o ya kwa Polokwane kana o ya kwa Mokopane tsela ya teng e

bulegile, e smooth. Jaanong ke ipotsa gore specifications tse e leng gore go aga tsone

dikompone tse di tswang kwa South Africa fa ba tsena kwano ke eng. Ke kile ka botsa ba

bo ba re nnyaa, go na le levels of specifications tse di rileng. Jaanong ke ne ke re a re ko

re leke gore re baakanye ditsela tse ka seemo se e leng gore se tlile go leka gore se re

sologele molemo ka gore the more re di dira di le quality e e kwa tlase, the more re tlileng

go tswelela re senya madi. O ka bona seemo sa tsela e e supilweng ke bangwe go tswa

mo Dikabeya go ya kwa Kgagodi o ipotsa gore it was almost redone. Ke sone se re se

buang gore let us just spend once and for all. Modesty o re leng mo go one is proving to

be very expensive for this country. Jaanong nna ke ne ke kopa ke re a re nneng puso ya

the 21st Century re kgone go itse gore re ya kwa pele, re spenda madi gangwefela e nna
gangwefela. Fa Tona a tla a kopa a ntsha justification ya gore ke eng scope of the project

e tshwanetse go okediwa, a supa the variation ya scope of work ka specifications ke tlaa

nna motho wa ntlha go mo sapota ka gore ke batla something durable. Why buy cheap

things? Ke eng re batla go dira jalo. Batho betsho ke ne ke re a re emeng ka dinao re tle

re leke gore re supafatse kgang e.

Tshwaragano gare ga lefatshe la rona le China ke a e lebogela. Lefatshe la China ba ba

neng ba le teng re fiwa puisano ke ba Investec go supiwa seemo sa China in the global

positioning go supafetse gore China is becoming a global force. Jaanong ke sone se ke

reng ke lebogela tshwaragano eo ka gore go supafala re ya teng kwa e leng gore re

tshwanetse gore re tshwaragane le batho bao. Mme ke re let us get our niche mo teng re

nne le seabenyana se re tlaa se anyang. A re diriseng tshwaragano e go dirafatsa skills

transfer, e seka ya nna seemo se e leng gore Ma-China ba tla kwano ba tlile go aga

ditsela ba bo ba boa. A re dirafatseng fa e le gore go na le a specific way e re ka attachang

batho, tshwaragano le motion wa ga Motlotlegi Sebetela o e leng gore o tlile go supa gore

kwa go nang le lack of capacity a re ba tsholetseng ka go ba attacha le dikompone tse e

leng gore e tlaa re ka moso fa ba tsamaile re bone e le ngwana mongwe wa Motswana a

dira tsela e e leng gore e tswa fa e ya go wela kwa Mothabaneng e le tsela ya Botswana e

dirwa ke ngwana wa Motswana, re ikgantshe ka ene. Ke sone se ke batlang gore ke re a

re se gateleleng re tle re dire tiro eo. Ke pataganya kgang e le conditions of loan ke re ee,

go a kgonega gore ba ba go fang loan ba dictate terms, mme ke re rona re le on the

negotiating side a re dirafatseng gore re negotiata re bone gore bana ba rona ba a benefita

in the final analysis. Citizen economic empowerment let it be deliberate, let us not shy

away from it. Lefatshe le ke la rona a re bueng mabaka ka fa a tshwanetseng ka teng. We
have got a prevailing condition ya democracy mo lefatsheng le, thitibalo e e teng

mafatshe a mantsi le rona we are attractive to them. A re exploiteng seemo seo gore re

kgone gore re itsweledise. Re seka ra ema gore re re mafatshe a tlaa tla kwa go rona, a

reyeng kwa go bone le rona re offera se re nang le sone re supe gore condition e e ka nna

seemo se e leng gore se ka dira ka tsela e e ntseng jalo. Go ka utlwisa botlhoko gore e re

fa ditsela tse di tla go dirwa batho ba e leng gore ba dira ditsela tse le skills tse di kwa

tlase tse e leng gore ke tsa go tshela mmu, go tlisa tee le borotho di dirwa ke batho ba e

leng gore ga se Batswana. Nna ke tlaa kopa gore a re dirafatseng seemo se re supeng

possibility ya employment opportunities for Batswana. Fa projects di dirwa a re supeng

gore Batswana are likely to benefit go na le opportunities tse di kana tse e leng gore tiro e

e tlile go di dira.

Artisans tse di tswang mo Brigades, ba bantsi, a e nne bone ba e leng gore ba tsile go

anya skills se ke neng ke bua ka sone fa ke bua ka skills transfer. Bana ba ba tswang mo

Brigades fa ba le foo ba hirilwe, ka re itse palo ya bone gore bana bao ba kae, output e

kae mo dikoleng ngwaga le ngwaga, that should not be a problem. Re tshwanetse ra bo re

itse gore fa company e e tla, we can put on the table to the Chinese re ba raya re re, re na

le so many artisans. Ke yone kgang e ke batlang go e gatelela gore, a re emeng ka dinao

re seka ra bona bana ba rona ba sokola.

Sa bofelo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke batla go bua ka kgang ya project

implementation. E ke batlang gore re simolole go bua ka concept ya inter linkages.

MR RAKHUDU: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. Ke ne ke re Motlotlegi e

re a ise a ye kgakala a tlhalose golo fa o ka reng go a tsietsa mme ke sa reye gore go

bosula. Fa MaChina a tla a aga tsela e ya rona ya Dutlwe/Morwamosu, a Motlotlegi a re,
re tseye bana ba rona ba Technical Schools ka gore fa o ne o re Brigades ke tseela gore o

raya le bao, e nne bone ba te ba attachang ba bereka le MaChina. A mme o raya gore fa

go ntse jalo, re seka ra mma dikompone tsa Batswana tse e leng gore di setse di

inaakantse le road construction a e seka ya nna tsone tse di yang go nna sub-contractees.

Kana o ne o raya gore bana ba ba rona ba nne in addition, ke gore fa dikompone tsa

Batswana di nna sub-contractees, Batswana bone ba bo ba bereka le MaChina, bana ba

ba tswang kwa dikoleng. A o ne o rialo, ke ne ke re o tlhatswe golo foo gore re seka ra

fitlhela re eletsa dilo dingwe tse e leng gore fa gongwe di thata go dirwa.

MR KGATHI: Ke ne ke re, re itse palo ya bana ba ba tswang kwa Technical colleges, ba

e leng gore ba na le skills tse di batliwang mo dikomponeng tse di ntseng jang. Jaanong a

ke kompone e e tlaa bong e tla e aga tsela e le ya MaChina, fa ba batla babereki ba ba

nang le skills tse di specified, re na le bana ba e leng gore they are unemployed, a re seka

ra tsweledisa kgang e ke neng ke utlwa Motlotlegi wa Tonota Rre Moatlhodi a re,

kompone e nngwe e ne e hirile bana ba e leng gore ga ba na the relevant qualifications.

Mme o ile a ema ka dinao a re, a re hireng ba e leng gore ba na le tshwanelo. Ke sone se

ke se buang gore, a re tshwaraganyeng Ministry wa Labour and Home Affairs ka

statistics se se supang skills profile tse re nang le tsone, re go re feeder ministries in terms

of skills profile tse re buang ka tsone re re, in terms of this trade, re na le skill se se kana,

bana ba ba leng unemployed. So that, fa re tsisa ditiro mo lefatsheng le, we are able to put

on the table re re, indeed, re ka kgona go thusa fa re bua ka gore, go seka ga tsiwa ka

ditiro tse di ntseng jaana. Ke tlaa tla ke e gatelela fa ke bua ka motion wa ga Motlotlegi

Sebetela.

Ke ne ke bua ka ya inter linkages, ministries fa re dira projects. A re tseyeng advantage,
a re tlogeleng seemo sa gore ministry mongwe le mongwe o eme ka bo one. A re

tshwaraganyeng kgang ya integration. A re tshwaraganyeng ministries re boneng gore fa

re dira project ya ditsela, ke dife ministries tse dingwe tse di ka tshwaragang tsa chaya

staff, tsa tshwara kgang e, gore di diragatse projects tsa bone tse e leng gore le tsone di

mo pipelining di mo planeng.

Mma ke fe sekai, fa re dira tsela e ya Dutlwe/Morwamosu, Ministry of Agriculture should

take keen interest mo kganye e. Ka gore, ba ka dira the small dams tsa batho mo

dikgaolong ka yone thulaganyo e e ntseng jaana. Gone kwa go tsewang konkoreiti le

motlhaba fa go epiwa matamo a a rileng, ba ka itshwaraganya le ba ditsela, ba bo ba dira

gore, at designated places, go dumalanwe le the local authorities, le communities, ba bo

bare, re ne re na le keletso ya go ka dira letamo fa, le e leng gore le ka thusa setshaba.

Mme ka tsela e, re bo re ka kgona gore re itshwaraganye le ministries. Integration e

botlhokwa, re tshwanetse gore re le ministries re emise kgang ya gore, ba ditsela ba

tsamaye ba epa dikhuti tse e leng gore e ya re fa dikoloi di nna le accidents, di felele di

wetse mo madibeng a a mo ditseleng mo dithoko. Le dikgomo di enwa fa thoko ga tsone

di felela di tlola ditsela di dira dikotsi. A re identify ka gore e bile go na le environmental

impact assessment. Mafelo…

MRS MOTSUMI: Ke kopa tlhaloso. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Ke ne ke re a mokaulengwe ga a lemoge tsela e a bayang ka teng tirisanyo

mmogo e, e ka tloga ya dia ditiro. Ka gore, re bua ka ditiro tse di farologanyeng tse di

tshwanelwang ke go dirwa.

Selo sa bobedi le gone gore, le gale ka gore o setse a se akgetse ke re, a lemoge tota gore,

kana kgang e ya dikhuti tse di epiwang mo ditseleng re setse re buile ka yone gore, ba ba
agang ditsela ba tsile go tlamega ka semolao gore, dikhuti tse ba di epang tseo, di felele

di theletswe.

MR KGATHI: Tona ke ne ke re ke thuse ka …

MR GABORONE: On a point of elucidation. Nna ke ne ke utlwa Rre Kgathi e kete se a

se buang se ka utlwala ka gore, fa re ka tsaya gore fa go agiwa tsela go epiwa dikhuti go

tsewa mmu o o dirisiwang mo tseleng, mme se a neng a se bua o ne a re, fa e le gore ba

Minerals, Energy and Water Resources le ba Ministry wa gago ba a dumalana, go na le

gore go rehabilithetiwe lefelo le go bonwang go ka nna le metse teng, go ne go ka

dumalanwa gore, fa, go na le gore komponi e e neng e ntse e epa foo e tle go katela, a go

dumelwane gore, ka o ka re go ka dirwa letamonyana fa teng le le ka tshwarang metsi, go

dirwe jalo, fa ke e fa sekai se le sengwe fela.

MR KGATHI: O ntshwere sentle thakadu, o e tlhalositse ka botlalo thakadu. Ke ne ke re

ke thuse teng fela fa Tona tshwaragano e ke e buang ke jaaka thakadu a setse a

tlhalositse. Tota fa re conceiver projects, ka nako ya development budgets, go na le gore

ministry wa gago o jele kwa, o mongwe o jele kwa, a ministries di je mogopo o le

mongwe fela.

Mma ke go fe sekai se sengwe, go ne jaanong go supilwe gore gatwe go ya go bulwa

border kwa Mmamabaka.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Ke bomang?

MR KGATHI: Ke ba Ministry of Finance and Development Planning le ba Ministry of

Labour and Home Affairs.

Mo planeng ga gona tsela e e tsileng go bulwa e ya kwa bordereng eo. Go raya gore,

border e ya go bulwa mo nageng, go bo go emelwa NDP 10, go bo e le gone go
simololwang go bulwa tsela e e yang teng. Kana go bo go dirwa supplementary estimates,

gotwe re tsenya tsela e e yang kwa bordereng. Ke sone se ke se buang gore, inter

ministerial collaboration in the planning process, its important for us to do. This will

facilitate project implementation ka bofefo jo bo rileng. Mme fa re ka tswelela re dira

jaana, re tsile go felela ngwaga le ngwaga re tla ka supplementary estimates. Ngwaga le

ngwaga fa project e dirwa, ya ministry e le tsela, a e tsewe e circulate mo other

ministries, go twe, lona what is your role, how can you make an input in this way. In that

way o tsile go bona lefatshe le, re mover a lot faster than this. Sepatela se a agiwa go sena

reticulation mo mafelong a, ke tshwaragano e ke e buang, e ke reng fa re dira projects tsa

go nna jaana, a re tsenyeng ministries tse dingwe go tla go dumalana go bona gore re

tsamaya ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Se sengwe, se ke neng ke re fa re dira jaana se ama ba Ministry of Lands and Housing, go

na le issue ya go tsaya metlhaba mo metseng e e leng gore those dams kana eng fela, di

ka server in the form of royalties mo metseng e metlhaba e tsewang mo go yone.

Dikomponi tse e leng gore di filwe tenders tse millions, di ka tshwara bo 50, di felela di

epa metlhaba mo dikgaolong tsa batho, di tsaya metlhaba mo dinokeng, di senya tsamao

ya noka, mme kwa bofelong e bo e ne e ke te o ka re the benefit to the society ga enne

teng.

Fa re dumelana ka cost recovery re rile metlhaba e tlaa duelelwa re na le tumelo ya go

itse gore, not only will the people benefit from the usage of the road, but also derive

benefit from consumption ya resources tse di teng. Ke sone se ke se buang ke re, a re

amanyeng tsamaiso ya projects re e tshwaraganele ka tsela e e ntseng jaana.

A certain percentage e ye kwa VDCs, ba kgone go itse gore, e rile fa tsela e e agwa, e ne
ya re ka madi a re enng re duelelwa metlhaba re riana, ra kgona gore re ikagele creche ya

bana ka madi a re neng re a bona mo komponeng e e neng e aga tsela.

MR MOKALAKE: Ke kopa tlhaloso. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Ke ne ke re Motlotlegi a ntlhalosetse gore, pharologanyo e tlaa nna eng fa o

mine motlhaba le fa o mine diteemane fa a bua ka royalties.

MR KGATHI: It depends on how you define royalties. There is lots of them, gone jaana

komponi ya DeBeers re ne re bona mo television e tsenya sekonotere mo kgaolong e

paying back to the society. It depends on how you define the royalties. Ke sone se kereng

it entirely depends on how you define royalties. Benefits tse e leng gore you derive as a

result of usage of the resources tse di leng teng …

MR RAKHUDU: On a point of elucidation Madam Speaker.

MR KGATHI: Ke ne ke kopa go fetsa ka nako ga e ntetle, ke tswelele ke re, kgang yone

e…

MR LEFHOKO: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. We clearly have known

definitions of what royalties are. Nobody is going to change that and say, it can be fluid,

it cannot be the fluid, it is not circumstantial. It is clear, you can go and check in any

dictionary.

MR KGATHI: Tona ka ga gona nako, ke tlaa tla ke tsaya kgang e le bangwe balekane

ba me ka kwa ntle ke leka go e tlhalosa. Ke ne ke batla gore ke fetse fa, gore re tle re

kgone go tshwara kgang e. Ke digele kgang e ke re, ke tle ke fe bangwe …

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ba go tshwere.

MR KGATHI: Ga ke e tsenye mo setekeng ka re ke tlaa e tseela kwa ntle ga seteke, ke

tle ke kgone gore ke e bue le bone ka botlalo ka gore e telele. Ke ne ke batla go digela ka
gore, ke re,

MR RAKHUDU: On a point of elucidation Madam Speaker. It was only yesterday that I

made a similar intervention. I certainly have a problem Madam Speaker when a Member

of Parliament is challenged on something factual, because this is for the record, it does

not harm, and in fact it is civilised and professional to concede if you really had a wrong

definition of something, this is factual…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Se ne o omana.

MR RAKHUDU: Nnyaa, ga ke omane. There is only one definition of royalties, ga gona

bo depends.

MR KGATHI: Madam Speaker, ke rile ke kopa gore ke tle ke tseele kgang e kwa ntle,

ke e define in detail. Ke raya gore the simplistic manner e ke batlang gore ke illustrate

the benefit that people derive from the usage of resources tsa bone, ke ne ke e baya jaana.

Fa e le gore kutlwisiso ya me ya go tlhalosa kgang ya royalties which in the literal sense

would mean or e kete o ka re it is some form of tax e e duelwang go dirisa ditsompelo

kana resources tse di foo, ke ka fa e leng ka teng le ka fa ke e tlhalosang ka teng.

Jaanong, se ke neng ke se bua in the context e e leng gore gongwe illustration ya teng

went too far into the borders of the definition of royalties, ke ne ke illustrate ke re, a

batho ba e leng gore go dirwa tsela tse di fetang fa pele bone, le bone ba nne le sengwe se

se imonang. Kana fa o bua Sebirwa fa gongwe e nna e kete o kare o ya garea o tla o

monoka dipuo o sa utlwale. Ke ne ke re ke e tlhalose ka tsela e e ntseng jaana batho

betsho. Ke re, le nkutlwe ka yone tsela e.

Kwa bofelong ke digele ka gore ke re, ke eme Tona nokeng ka dikgang tse ke re, tswelela

o thuse ka gore tsela e, batho ba kgaolo e ga ba bolo go e emela. Re tle re fokotse
bokgakala jwa kgaolo e, le rona re tle re kgone go ya teng.

MR MOUMAKWA (KGALAGADI NORTH): Tla ke go leboge Motsamaisa

Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

                                   ADJOURNMENT

                                        MOTION

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (LT. GEN. MERAFHE): Madam Speaker, I move that

this House do now adjourn.

                               Question put and agreed to.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 7.00 p.m. until Friday 21st July, 2006 at 9.00

a.m.

                                  Friday 21st July 2006

                          THE ASSEMBLY met at 2:30 p.m.

                             (THE SPEAKER in the Chair)

                                       PRAYERS

                                         ****

                         QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

POSTING OF SOCIAL WORKER AT GABANE

MR M. E. RALETOBANA: (KWENENG SOUTH): asked the Minister of Local

Government when he intends posting the long promised additional Social Worker at

Gabane as presently the officer there is unable to cope with the workload.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT (MR MASALILA): Madam

Speaker, I am aware of the need to post an additional Social Worker at Gabane. However,

due to manpower growth constraints, it has not been possible to provide an additional
position of Social Worker at Gabane. I thank you.

MR SEBETELA: Madam Speaker, given the fact that this is a problem nation-wide, are

there any special efforts to do something about the shortage of Social Workers, as it is

taking months for needy people to be assessed. Are there any special efforts being

undertaken?

MR MASALILA: Yes, we do take special efforts. Each year at the manpower estimates

we make our bids, but they are always unsuccessful because of this manpower ceiling

which you know is in place at the moment. It is not a question of the fact that we do not

have qualified people walking in the streets, it is a question of positions not being

available. Thank you.

MR RALETOBANA: Ke botsa Tona gore a o a itse gore ka 2nd February 2006, Tona o

re solofeditse gore mmaboipelego o tlaa bo a postiwa kwa Gabane mo bokhutshwaneng?

MR MASALILA: Those were wishful thinking. E ne e le maikaelelo a gore fa re bone

mongwe re tlaa mo isa teng. Go na le manpower ceilings tse e leng gore fa o ile go kopa

mme o sa fiwa, go felela fela gone foo.

MR MOATLHODI: Ke kopa go botsa Motlotlegi Mothusa Tona gore fa e le gore o a

itse gore ke wishful thinking, ke eng a sa kake a boela kwa go Motlotlegi Mopalamente

yo o amegang gore, rra, re na le mathata?

MR MASALILA: Nako e sa ntse e le teng ya gore ke tlaa boela teng kwa, ke gore o ne a

nthaka.

POSTING OF SOCIAL WORKER AT MMOPANE

MR M. E. RALETOBANA (KWENENG SOUTH): asked the Minister of Local

Government when he will consider posting a Social Worker at Mmopane village and its
surroundings given that the officer at Metsimotlhabe (who also services Mmopane) does

not satisfy the requirements of Metsimotlhabe, let alone those of Mmopane village.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT (MR MASALILA): Madam

Speaker, there are currently no plans to post a Social Worker at Mmopane due to

manpower growth constraints. The Honourable Member should understand that

ministries are operating under strict manpower growth ceilings and unless the situation

changes, we have to operate within the limited manpower at our disposal. I thank you.

MR SEBETELA: Madam Speaker, concerning the issue of Social Welfare Workers, is

the Minister aware, as I believe he is, that as a result of shortage of Social Workers, the

destitute policy of government is not reaching people it ought to reach? And whether the

Ministry of Finance who are responsible for all these ceilings are aware of these

problems?

MR MASALILA: What I am not sure of is whether the Ministry of Finance is aware,

but what I am sure is that, we are very much aware that there is a serious shortage which

affects implementation of the destitution programme. In fact, what we do at the moment

is that, sometimes we invite or we sort of call all the Social Workers to face an areas

where there is a backlog of unassessed cases to go and at least work as a team to clear the

backlog. That is the fallback position we have adopted so far.

MR MABILETSA: Tona fa a re ba Ministry of Finance ga ba lemoge gore ga ba itse, a

Tona o batla go re bolelela gore o paletswe ke go dira tiro ya gagwe ka botlalo go ba

lemosa mathata a a tlhalosiwang ka letlhoko le tlhaelo ya bommaboipelego?

MR MASALILA: There is a Committee dealing with manpower ceiling and we present

our case each year, explaining our position. I said I am not sure whether they are aware.
But our case does reach them, the manpower ceiling. So, I can not actually stand up and

here say that the Minister of Finance is aware when I am not sure whether he is aware of

the situation.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ke ne ke

re Tona a lemoge gore kana dikgang tse go buiwang ka tsone tse, ke tse go a bong go

setse go na le posts. Jaanong ke re, a o a tlhaloganya gore fa a ntse a bolelela Palamente a

ntse a re mathata ke manpower ceiling, o a fosa ka gore mathata ao…

MADAM SPEAKER: Honourable Matlhabaphiri, ask your question please.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Ke e boditse Madam Speaker. Ke rile, a Tona o a tlhaloganya

gore o a fosa fa a ntse a re mathata ke manpower ceiling, ntswa a setse a tlhalositse gore

ba a tle ba interview batho.

MR MASALILA: Ga ke mo tlhaloganye. Ga ke itse gore eo ya go interview batho o e

tsaya kae.

VALUE OF PROCUREMENT AT DEPARTMENT OF SUPPLY

MR L. B. SEBETELA (PALAPYE): asked the Minister of Finance and Development

Planning what the value of procurement was at the Department of Supply for financial

years 2003/2004 and 2004/2005 for the following in the form of a table:

office equipment (excluding IT),

office stationery,

IT equipment,

Consultancies / professional services,

And say how much of these amounts for each financial year and category above was

awarded to locally registered suppliers and further say how much went to 100 per cent
citizen-owned and citizen-controlled contractors in pursuit of Government‟s efforts to

empower its citizens.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF FINANCE AND DEVELOPMENT PLANNING (MR

MLAZIE): Madam Speaker, during the 2003/2004 and 2004/2005 financial years, the

value of procurement of office equipment (excluding IT), office stationary, IT equipment

and consultancies /professional services by the Department of Supply amounted to P56,

475,454.72. Of this amount, P36, 701,081.82 was spent during 2003/2004, whilst P19,

774,372.90 was spent during 2004/2005.

During the 2003/2004 financial year, P22, 886,833.70 was spent on office equipment

(excluding IT), P12, 880,325.87 on office stationary and P933, 922.25 on IT equipment.

For the financial year 2004/2005, P12, 805,093.20 was spent on office equipment

(excluding IT), P6, 185,414.50 on office stationary, P621, 725.20 on IT equipment and

P162, 140 on consultancies /professional services.

Madam Speaker, out of the total amount of P36, 701,081.82 procured in 2003/2004 an

amount of P622, 621.44 was procurement from foreign suppliers and the remaining

amount of P36, 078,460.38 was from locally registered suppliers and 100 per cent citizen

owned companies.

Out of the total amount of P19, 774,372.90 for procurement in 2004/2005, an amount of

P293, 320.44 represented purchases from foreign suppliers and P19, 157,732.02 was for

purchases from locally registered suppliers and 100 per cent citizen owned companies. I

have the same information in tabular form as requested by the Honourable Member,

which I will hand over to him. I thank you Madam Speaker.
Department of Supply Procurement for the Financial Years

2003/2004 and 2004/2005



Items/Services       2003/2004

Amount (P) 2004/2005

Amount (P)

Office Equipment (excluding IT)

22,886.833.70

12,805,093.20

Office Stationary

12.880,325.87

6,185,414.50

IT Equipment

    933,922.25

    621,725.20

Consultancies/Professional Services

-

    162,140.00

Total

36,701,081.82

19,774,372.90

MR SEBETELA: Can the Minister say, of the so called locally registered companies

which benefited to the tune of P36 million - 2003/04 and P19 million – 2004/05, what
percentage was citizen owned 100 per cent and what percentage was citizen controlled.

That is what the question says.

MR MLAZIE: Madam Speaker, I have mentioned it several times in this House that, the

PPADB procurement does not, there is no requirement by the PPADB to separate locally

registered suppliers from a 100 per cent citizen owned company. As a result of that, I am

unable to give that figure. I thank you.

MR SEBETELA: Is the Minister aware that he is misleading this House by suggesting

that there is no registration at PPADB that requires ownership shareholding. Anybody

who owns a company in this House knows that, to register at PPADB, they require all

company registration, including Form 2B shareholding and so on. Is the Minister aware

that what he is saying about the PPADB not distinguishing or differentiating between not

registering companies on the basis of ownership and shareholding. Is the Minister aware

that he is misleading the House?

MR MLAZIE: Madam Speaker, I am not misleading the House at all. All I am saying is

that, when it comes to procurement by PPADB, there is no such requirement and that is

all I am saying. I thank you.

VALUE OF PROCUREMENT AT DEPARTMENT OF CURRICULUM

DEVELOPMENT AND EVALUATION

MR L. B. SEBETELA (PALAPYE): asked the Minister of Education what the value of

procurement was at the financial years 2003/2004 and 2004/2005 for the following in the

form of a table:

office equipment (excluding IT),

office stationery,
IT equipment,

Consultancies/professional services,

And say how much of these amounts for each financial year and category above was

awarded to locally registered suppliers and further say how much went to 100 per cent

citizen-owned and citizen-controlled contractors in pursuit of Government‟s efforts to

empower its citizens.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF EDUCATION (MS MBAAKANYI): Mr Speaker, in

2003/2004 the Department of Curriculum Development and Evaluation spent P137,

689.80 on office equipment, P321, 442.22 on office stationary, P355, 825.00 on IT

equipment and P816, 465.86 on consultancies.

In 2004/2005, the department spent P126, 626.15 on office equipment, P351, 783.00 on

office stationary, P343, 808.00 on IT equipment and nothing was spent on consultancies/

professional Services.

In 2003/04, procurement of all office equipment, office stationery and IT equipment was

from 100% citizen owned suppliers. For consultancies, P200, 000.00 constituting 24.5

percent of the total amount was awarded to non-citizen owned contractors and P616,

465.86 constituting 75.5 percent was awarded to citizen owned contractors.

In 2004/05, procurement of all office equipment, office stationery and IT equipment was

from 100 percent citizen owned suppliers.

Madam Speaker, I have provided this information in the form of a table as requested by

the Honourable Member. I thank you.

Table of Expenditures

Expenditure for Financial year 2003/2004
Nature of Supply or service Non-citizen owned           100% citizen owned              Office

   equipment         Nil        P137, 689.80               Office stationery      Nil

321,442.22                 IT equipment Nil         355,825.00         Consultancies P200,

000.00      616,465.86           Grand Total P200, 000.00 P1, 413,422.90

Expenditure for Financial year 2004/2005

Nature of Supply or service Non-citizen owned           100% citizen owned              Office

equipment      Nil         P126, 626.15         Office stationery     Nil      P 351,783.00

            IT equipment Nil         P 343.808.00          Consultancies Nil      Nil

                              Grand Total Nil       P 822, 217.15

MR SEBETELA: Madam Speaker, I see the Ministry of Education for some reason get

to know citizen from non-citizen. Can the Ministry say what they do that the Ministry of

Finance and Development Planning cannot do with respect to finding out who are

citizens and who are not citizens so that maybe the Ministry of Finance and Development

Planning can start doing the same thing. I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MS MBAAKANYI: I thank the Honourable Member for that compliment. It just shows

that the Ministry of Education officials are very committed to citizen empowerment and

they do their best led by capable Ministers.

MR MABILETSA: Ke ne ke re ke botse Motlotlegi Tona Mbaakanyi gore a ga a re ba

Lephata la gagwe go supa gore babereki ba gagwe ba ikaeletse, a moo go raya gore o

nyatsa gore ba Finance bone ga ba na kgothatso e ba gagwe ba nang le yone?

MS MBAAKANYI: Madam Speaker, I am not going to comment about another

Ministry. I just have to talk about my Ministry. What Finance does is not part of my duty,

therefore the Minister of Finance will respond to issues that concern the Ministry of
Finance and Development. Therefore, if you ask me about Ministry of Education, I will

respond and I hope you will not compare the Ministries.

REQUIREMENTS TO QUALIFY FOR CITIZENSHIP THROUGH

NATURALISATION

MR KGATHI (BOBIRWA): asked the Ministry of Labour and Home Affairs: -

the requirements needed for one to qualify for citizenship through naturalisation or

otherwise;

whether the eligibility criteria which are currently in force are similar to those of any

other country; and,

if there are any plans    to relax some of the requirements in order to facilitate the

recruitment of people with scarce skills or those that contribute to the development of this

country through investment.

   ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LABOUR AND HOME AFFAIRS (MR MFA):

   Madam Speaker, citizenship may be obtained through a number of ways, some of

   which are:

by settlement, this being for people who settled in Botswana before 30th September 1966;

by adoption and registration, these being children;

by Presidential powers, these being people who have done signal honour or rendered

distinguished services to Botswana, and others where special circumstances exist; and

by naturalisation.

   Madam Speaker, with respect to naturalisation, the law requires that one should:

have resided in Botswana for a continuous period of ten years (10) in aggregate during

the period of 12 years immediately preceding application;
be of a good character;

have sufficient knowledge of Setswana language or any other language spoken by any

tribal community in Botswana; and

intend in the event of a certificate of naturalisation being granted to reside in Botswana.

           Madam Speaker, in addition to the above requirements, since 2004 we also

           apply a point system, which awards marks as follows:

Occupation/skills (40%)

Level of investment/value of contribution (40%)

Spouse skills (10%)

Other relevant qualifications such as community service (10%).

The applicants should meet the language requirement, score 70% or above and all this is

subject to an annual quota of 200. This system Madam Speaker has some similarities

with the Australian one.

Madam Speaker, the point system is in its second year of application and we will be

examining whether the most deserving candidates get citizenship. Therefore, while at this

stage I have no plans to relax the criteria. I will indeed be monitoring its impact. I should

also mention, Madam Speaker, that where special circumstances exist I may award

citizenship to an applicant who fails to satisfy the language requirement. I thank you.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: Ke ne ke re ke botse Motlotlegi Tona gore a fa a bua ka

dipuo tse di buiwang ke merafe mo Botswana, a o ka ne a raya jaaka fa e le gore ko bo

Bokspits go buiwa leleme la Afrikaans kana jaaka ko bo Molepolole le Otse go buiwa

leleme la SeIndia kana jaaka ko mafelong a mangwe a mantsi go buiwa diteme tse

dingwe, mme fa e le gore go ntse jalo, ke eng fa batho e tle e re fa ba ikopetse ba ganwe
gotwe ka gore ga ba itse Setswana. A ba a tle ba bo ba boditswe gore ke dife diteme tse

dingwe tse di buegang mo Botswana tse ba di buang.

MR MFA: Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke tsaya gore kgang e tlhamaletse

fela. Kana le one Ma-India a ba a buang a, ba bangwe ba bone ba batla go kopa boagedi

mme ga re dirise teme ya bone e le tsela nngwe ya gore ba ka bona citizenship. Se ke se

buang ke bua ka diteme tse e leng gore mo Botswana mo rotlhe re a itse gore ke dife.

MR REATILE: Ke a leboga, Motsamaisa dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ke ne ke re ke

botse Tona gore jaanong go dirafala jang gore ba o fitlhelang ba setse ba filwe boagedi

mme ba sa itse puo epe fela mo lefatsheng la Botswana le madume a teng tota ba sa a

itse. Go a bo go tsile jang foo, Tona?

MR MFA: Ke ithaya ke re ke tlhalositse, ke nnete go na le bangwe ba ba kgonang go

bona boagedi ja Botswana ba sa itse Setswana. Ke rile mabaka ke gore Tona wa Lephata

le o na le thata ya go dira jalo a lebile mabaka mangwe a a tshwanang le one a di-

investment.

PROCESSING OF APPLICATIONS FOR CITIZENSHIP

MR KGATHI (BOBIRWA): asked the Minister of Labour and Home Affairs whether

his Ministry in processing applications for citizenship: -

considers the status of the applicant and whether he/she is an investor;

what his Ministry considers an investor in this regard; and

what is considered to be the minimum threshold of capital to be invested as justification

in part for qualification for citizenship.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LABOUR AND HOME AFFAIRS (MR MFA):

Madam Speaker, as stated in my earlier response to question 627, the status of an
applicant for citizenship is taken into account by considering attributes such as:

Occupation/skills;

Level of investment/value of contribution;

Spouse skills; and

Other relevant qualifications such as contribution to the community.

Madam Speaker, we consider an investor as any person who proposes to invest or has

invested in a business with prospects for employment creation.

Given that different business ideas require different levels and kinds of investment, there

is no minimum threshold. However, the Immigrants Selection Boards have the authority

to consider the viability of applications. I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MR KGATHI: Ke ne ke kopa Tona gore a nthuse ka go tlhaloganyo gore fa go na le di-

applicants di le pedi; wa ntlha a na le dingwaga di le ten mo Botswana, a bua Setswana a

investile about P20, 000; ga bo go nna le wa bobedi a investile P2 million, a na le ngwaga

di le pedi, a sa bue Setswana; yo Ministiri wa gago o mo fang preference ke ofe when

looking at a combination of all these factors that you have enumerated above.

MR MFA: Motsamaisa dipuisanyo tsa Palamente ke tlhalositse gore go na le komiti e e

seka-sekang dikopo tse. Mme yone komiti eo e a leba go bona gore tota yo o botlhokwa

ke ofe; in fact, ga se gore go tshwantshanngwa gore yo o ntse jang. Kgang nngwe le

nngwe e tsewa ka fa e ntseng ka teng. Mme ke tlhalositse gore Tona wa Lephata le o na

le tshwanelo; o na le dithata tsa gore o ka neela motho citizenship a lebile mabaka a a

farologanyeng.

ACCESSIBILITY OF YOUTH GRANT IN REMOTE VILLAGES
MR S. KGATHI (BOBIRWA): asked the Minister of Labour and Home Affairs:-

how he expects young people from remote villages like Lentswe-le-Moriti, Takatokwane,

Mabolwe and Phitshane Molopo              to access the youth grant given the current

requirements;

what obstacles young people from such areas are likely to face compared to their

counterparts from urban and peri-urban areas; and

further state if he has any plans to ensure that some of the current requirements are

relaxed and that the grant is accessible to all young people in the country irrespective of

their distance from the main centres.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LABOUR AND HOME AFFAIRS (MR MFA):

Madam Speaker, my Ministry has through the Department of Culture and Youth

decentralised its services to the rural areas. To this end, the Department has 27 District

and Sub District Youth offices countrywide. The villages of Takatokwane, Phitshane-

Molopo and Mabolwe are serviced from Letlhakeng, Good-Hope and Bobonong

respectively.

Mr Speaker, accessibility has also been improved following a Presidential Directive,

which established Youth Offices at the three settlements of New Xade, Kaudwane and

Xere. Furthermore, during Mid-Term Review of National Development Plan 9,

Government approved that three new Sub-District Youth offices be opened at Charles

Hill, Mabutsane and Tlokweng during the Financial year. Recruitment of officers for

these stations is at an advanced stage.

Given the reality that youth offices are not in every village and settlement Mr Speaker,

visits to outlying villages by youth officers form part of the programme of work.
Mr Speaker, while we have not carried out any formal study into the kinds of challenges

faced by youth in different localities, it is fair to say that there are certain limitations in

very remote localities compared to urban and peri-urban centres. Some of these

challenges include:

Lack of or inadequate support infrastructure such as telecommunications, road and rail

networks, power and water supply.

Small local markets;

Suppliers are mostly located in urban centres and major villages; and there is an

Absence of other support services such as banking.

I may add Mr Speaker that these challenges are faced by other age groups in virtually all

sectors.

On the question of whether I will relax some of the requirements for accessing the grant,

I would like to report that we recently waived the up front requirement for a business

registration certificate and cancelled deadlines for submissions of project proposals.

Therefore applications can now be reviewed continuously throughout the financial year.

Mr Speaker, we will continue to review the requirements and criteria attached to the

grant, and respond positively, where appropriate, and resources permitting, to suggestions

for improvements. In this regard, Honourable Members are welcome to make suggestions

to my Ministry. I thank you, Mr Speaker.

                                   TABLING OF PAPER

The following paper was presented:
    STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS AMENDING THE SCHEDULES TO THE

                       CUSTOMS AND EXCISE DUTY ACT

                  (Minister of Finance and Development Planning)



   DEVELOPMENT AND IMPLEMENTATION OF A NATIONAL CITIZEN

             CONTRACTORS SKILL/CAPACITY RATING SYSTEM

                                        Motion

                                   (Resumed debate)

MS TSHIRELETSO (MAHALAPYE EAST): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Mmaetsho ke ne ke setse ke tsamaela go fetsa. Mme ka nako eo go ne go na

le potso e e neng e tswa mo go mokaulengwe Motlotlegi Rre Masisi ke ne ke e araba fa

ke ne ke bua ka gore e a re pele ga dithendara di abiwa go bo go setse batho ba itse. Mme

e bile a bua gore a mme Tona fa a re o ntsha Makhanselara mo di tender boardeng a go

siame. Ke re ee kana seipato kana sesiro sa bao ba e leng gore ba dira tsone dilo tse ke

mapolotiki e bong makhanselara. E le gore ke bua ke re Tender Board e le nna ke

ikgantshang ke re ke ne ke le mo go yone ga go na meno mo mapolotiking

bomakhanselara. Go tla di recommendation di tswa ko badirelapusong ba go tweng ke

bo-maitsaanape. Ke gone mo e leng gore gone moo e bo e le gore bone yo ba tlaa bong ba

mo rata re sa itse ba mmolelela ko thoko gore tendara e tsamaya fa fa o ka dira bokana ke

gone o ka kgonang. Mme ke bo ke re ke dumalana le ene gore Makhanselara ba ka tswa

mo di tender boardeng tsa dikhansele kana ga sala setlhopha sa ba ba rileng. Ke bo ke

tswelela ka gore tota eo e ne e se kgang, kgang e ne e le gore ke ne ke tsweletse ka gore

fa jaaka re bua re riana le lephata la ga Tona la ga Motlotlegi Nasha ba mo
ditlhotlhomisong tsa tsone dithendara tse di sa tsamayeng sentle…

MR RAKHUDU: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. Ke ne ke kopa tlhaloso

mo go Motlotlegi Tshireletso wa Mahalapye Botlhaba. Fa a re Makhanselara a tswe mo

tender boarding a tlhalose gore a o raya golo fa e leng gore go nale a separate tender

board e Makhanselara a leng mo go yone separate from the finance and general purposes

committee. Ke botsa jaana ka gore, sekai, ga ke itse gore a go dirafala mo ditoropong

tsotlhe. Mo Gaborone ditendara tsotlhe mo Gaborone City Council di felela di retifaiwa if

you like ke Finance and General Purposes Committee. Ga go na komiti e nngwe gape e

go tweng tender board e Makhanselara ba leng mo go yone. Jaanong o re tlhalosetse golo

gongwe ko o neng o le teng gongwe go na le tse pedi.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Ke a leboga. Ko go rona go na le Finance and Tender Board. Go

ne go na le Finance and General Purposes, fa re sena go dira decentralisation e bo e le

gore dikomiti tsa rona mo disubdistricting di bidiwa Finance and Tender Board. Le tsena

pele mo dilong tsa finance ka fa le tlaa bong le dira le di lebile ka teng le di sekaseka, go

tswa foo fa go tsena tsa dithendara the very same Finance Committee e a fetoga e nna

Tender Board, jaanong e bo e le gore fa e le Tender Board jaana e awarda dithendara, re

ntse jaana. Jaanong ke sone se re neng re re gongwe seemo se, ga ke re ba tswe jaaka ke

bua ke eme mme Tona o a sekaseka se a se sekasekang.

MR MABILETSA: On a point of elucidation Madam Speaker. Ke ke ne ke utlwile

Motlotlegi pele a bua gore o akanya gore jaaka puso e na le moono wa gore

Makhanselara batswe mme a re o a dumalana. Ke batla go mmotsa gore mo puong ya

gagwe mo bekeng e e fetileng o ne a supa Motlotlegi gore ka mabaka a poloko ba lona

mo dikomiting tse le ne le a tle le lemoge maretshwa mangwe a le neng le a dira ka gore
le mapolotiki le kgone go a kganela. A jaanong fa o dumalana le gore Makhanselara a

tswe jaanong batho ba itolokisa ba le nosi a o bona gore go tla siama? Ke dumela gore

whatever seabe se Makhanselara ba nang le sone se ne se thusa thata mo go reng batho ba

ba dire mme ba itse gore go na le mongwe yo o tlaa tlang ko pele a kgaleme a na le

lentswe le le nang le moko. Jaanong fa o re batswe gotlhelele ke gore o bolaile system

jaanong corruption ya white collar e ya go gola go gaisa jaaka e ntse, gore a o ikutlwa

sentle fa o bua puo e e tshwanang le e?

MS TSHIRELETSO: Mme tota ga ke ise ke ko ke be ke tswe ka kgang ya gore

Makhanselara a ntshiwe. Mopalamente Masisi, yo o kileng a nna Mokhanselara, o ne a re

o utlwile gore Tona fa a tsamaya o ne a re ba tswe. Jaanong ke re ga ke gane seemo sa go

sekaseka ka gore batho ba iphitlha ka mekwatla ya rona, ke re ke rialo. Mme moo kana

go sa ntse go dirwa ga se mo ke ka reng ee kana nnyaa, ga se yone kgang tota e nna ke e

buang fano. Mme fela se o se buang ke gone gore kana ke dumela gore Tona ba

tshwanetse gore fa ba ya go dira selo se ba tsenye leitlho la bone le le mochocho ko teng.

Fa ba sa lebelele selo se ba ya go fitlhela e le gore ba latlhile dikhansele, ke dumalana le

wena Mopalamente yo o Tlotlegang. Mme tota ke ne ke setse ke tsamaela go fetsa ka ke

ne ke re, re dumalana le mogopolo o; o o tlaa bong e ka re fa goromente a ka tlhoafalela

dikopo tse tsa rona wa direga sentle. Ke feleletsa ka gore letshwenyego le le neng le

ntshwenya thata fa ke bua mogopolo o ke gore bontsi jwa mafoko a re ntseng re a bua re

ne re bua…(interruption).

MR SEBETELA: On a point of elucidation Madam Speaker. Ke batla go tlatsa

Mopalamente yo o tlotlegang gore kana kgang e a e buang ya Board yone e ya bone e ne

e tla dilo di fedile, e le gore ke di recommendation di apeilwe ko di apeilweng teng. Kana
fa o bona gompieno re mekamekana le motion o jaana kgang ntse ke yone eo le ko Public

Procurement and Asset Disposal Board (PPADB). The department ko dilo di dirwang

teng go tla go apeetswe ruri koo, goromente yo motona yo PPADB ga e na capacity ya

gore tendara nngwe le nngwe ba simolole ko ntlheng ba bone gore go ne go na le eng.

Jaanong gone ko ba sa kgoneng go tsena teng koo go dirafala fela jaaka o bua. In the

absence of a rating system go kgonafala gore dikompone tse e leng gore di ne di ka seka

tsa ba tsa fetelela di fetelele di ye go tsenela koo. Jaanong kana fa go tsena ko PPADB ba

itshwanela le lona Makhanselara ga le itse gore ga twe go tsentswe eng ga dirwa eng; go

a recommendiwa ga twe ntse ke bona ba kgonang. Ke jaaka o bona gompieno re na le

dipatela, ga ke itse gore a di tharo kana di kae, tse di neetsweng konteraka e le nngwe

fela, e a palelwa tiro ya ga goromente e eme.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Di four!

MR SEBETELA: Ee, di le four. Go neetswe konteraka e le nngwe fela mme tse dingwe

di ntse di le teng di eme. Ke one mathata a gore batho ba ba abang ko bofelong ga ba na

capacity ya go itse gore gatwe e rile motho yo a tlaa ntshiwa a tla go bewa letlhokwa go

twe ke ene a dire a bo a dira jang. Ke raya gore kgang e o e buang ke yone e e dirang

gore gompieno re bo re le fa gore re kgone go guarda go seka ga sukunyediwa ope go sa

itsiwe gore o kgona eng ga a kgone eng.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Ee ke a leboga mmaetsho. Kana jaaka ke ne ke bua ke re ke ne ke

tsamaela go fetsa. Ke ne ke buile dikai tse di ntsi tsa gore le di company a le mongwe fela

o tlaa di phetsokanya maina mme fa o tla o re ke tima Motlotlegi Rakhudu kante o ipitsa

Motlotlegi Nasha, o ipitsa Batsile. Mo ke go itseng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: That is a bad example.
MS TSHIRELETSO: Nnyaa, ka re ke bua ka dikai gore wena fa o re ke a gana yo ke yo

re mo itseng yo o ntseng jaana. Rona ka re ntse mo go yone tender board eo re a itse

jaaka Mopalamente yo o tlotlegang wa Palapye a bua gore go na le boferefere jo bo

gakgamatsang. Jo e leng gore fa gongwe le le Tender Board fa o utlwa e kete batho ba re

a ke a dumalana, wena o a itse gore re file semangmang semente gore ke ene a se

sapolaye. Heelang dipotso ke di boditse fa di arabiwa di ya kwa. Ko Mahalapye sub-

district batho ba ke ka buang maina a bone fa go twe ke bue; ba fiwa dithendara re di aba

ke le mo teng, tsa drought, go feletse le letsatsi leno jaana ba ise ba bo ba ise le fa e le

semente se sengwe fela le fa e le senke, mme e le bone ba neetsweng, go a go rekwa ko

mothong o sele. Ke bua boammaaruri jo bo sa jelweng pheko jo go ka tweng ntsha maina

a le kana ke ka a ntsha. Mme e le gore o tlaa bo o ya ko go Assistant Council Secretary

(ACS) o mmolelela kgang e; kana semangmang o tsile ko go nna a lela jaana, ga a dire

tiro e a e filweng. Kgantele go boa go felela project e bo e fela go ntse go twe re tlaa

tlhotlhomisa. Dilo tse fa a batla Tona, bogolo-jang wa Local Government gore a re botse

rona ba re tswang ko dikhanseleng. Fa re ka mmolelela dilo gongwe o ka sela sengwe.

Jaanong ke re tota ke ne ke sa batle go boelela…

DR NASHA: Ke kopa go tlhalosa sengwe Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ee a

ke re ke gore ke a kokonelwa ka ke utlwa go ntse go buiwa gore Makhanselara go na le

moono mongwe wa go ba ntsha, ke re nnyaa fa e le gore go na le moono oo ga se wa me.

Ka fa nna ke lebileng ka teng tendering procedures tse re di fetsang gompieno ga re ntshe

Makhanselara mo teng ga di Tender Board. Go tlaa nna go na le bangwe mo teng ba ba

tlaa nnang matlho o bonang, ke ba fokotsa palo fela.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Ke a leboga mmaetsho. Ke gore mo gongwe o fitlhela go utlwisa
botlhoko o ikitaaganya jaaka noga e itoma mme go sena se se thusang. Ke dumela gore

ka Mopalamente wa Palapye Motlotlegi Rre Sebetela o phuntse gore e re fa re bua ka go

rutuntsha le go rotloetsa di company tsa mo gae mme re ntshe dilo dingwe tse e leng

dilabe. Mme re tsaya gore matona ba a utlwa ka gore tsone dilo tse le gompieno jaana mo

droughteng e e neng e felela go na le batho ba ba filweng a kwalelwa lekwalo go twe o

winne thendara mme e fedile ga go na se ba se sapolaileng ga re itse gore ke mang yo o

sapolaileng. Jaanong ke feleletsa ka gore ke kope. E rile maloba ra nna le motion o o

buileng ko go wena mmaetsho wa ga Motlotlegi Rre Kedikilwe, re kope bo-Tona. Tota e

bile one matona nna ke ne ke re ba itshwarelwe pele ba re reetse ka gore kgang e e ya go

felela ko go bone. Ke wela ka gore maloba fa Motlotlegi Kedikilwe a ntsha mogopolo …

Tona wa Madi ga a yo- Mothusi wa gagwe ga a yo, Tona wa tsa Pereko ga a yo, Tona wa

tsa Kgwebo ga a yo jaaka ke re a reetse. E ne e le gore jaanong re bua re bolelela Matona

a se kae; ba Agriculture, ba bo Foreign Affairs, ba e leng gore fa gongwe dilo tse dingwe

di buiwa ba seyo. Jaanong ke re ke kope fa re bua kgang e gore goromente, e bong

Executive, ba tseye kgang e ba utlwe meono ya rona rotlhe gore e re fa e ya go felela fa e

bo e le gore re na le tsholofelo ya gore ga re a nna mo Ntlong e dibeke tse pedi tse tharo

go sena yo e leng gore o re reeditse. Re ne re na le wa Works and Transport e bile o ne a

ba a re sapota. Ko bofelong re tlaa bo re ne re bua mo go tweng dipuo tsa lona le lefela la

mafela mo go ba le di ba bolelelang. Jaanong ke wela ka gone gore fa Tona Motlotlegi

Gaolathe a seyo monnawe a nne teng, fa Tona wa tsa Pereko a seyo monnawe a nne teng,

wa tsa Ditiro a seyo monnawe, ba nne teng bone beng ba modiro o. Ke ema jalo ke

leboga mmaetsho ke itumetse.

MR MORUTI (OKAVANGO): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente
gore o bo o mphile nako ya gore le nna ke akgele mo kannyeng e ya go kopa go nonotsha

dikompone tsa Batswana le Batswana ka bobone go thusiwa. Mma fela ke simolole ke

eme nokeng mokaulengwe yo o tsileng ka mogopolo yo montle o, le fa e tswa e tlaa re re

bua ya bo e le gore tota ko bofelong ga go na maduo. Nna ke bua ke le Mokhanselara ke

tswa ko khanseleng, gompieno ke Mopalamente but ke ne ke tswa mo khanseleng jaaka

fela Motlotlegi Mma-Tshireletso. Fa re bua ka fa Batswana ba jewang ntsoma ka teng, fa

re bua ka fa Batswana ba diilang ka teng ba ba itekang ba batla gore le bone ba tsenye

seabe mo itsholelong ya lefatshe le, ke bua ka dilo tse ke di tlhaloganyang e bile le nna ke

le mongwe wa batho ba e leng gore ba ne ba leka le nna gore ke nne jalo. Ke setse ke

ipotsa gore ga ke itse gore a mathata e ka bo e le tsamaiso ya puso kampo mathata e ka bo

e le gore re le Batswana ga re batle Motswana yo mongwe a tswelela, mme e bo e le gore

re bona gore go botoka go tswelele batho ba mafatshe a mangwe ba ba re etetseng ba le

mo lefatsheng la rona.

Go na le dikompone tse e leng gore di teng ke tsa Batswana, tsa construction le tse

dingwe fela tse e leng gore ke tsa dikgwebo tse di farologanyeng. Gore kompone eo e

tswelele e le ya Motswana, go tshwanetse gore go bo go na le motswakwa mo teng. Fa e

le Batswana fela, le ka leka ka fa le ka lekang ka teng, le tlaa felela le paletswe. E seng

fela mo ditendareng, le gone mo go boneng madi mo dibankeng o fitlhela go le thata. O

fitlhela go le thata gore o bone tendara o le Motswana, e le kompone ya Batswana fela.

Go thata gore o bone madi mo bankeng o le Motswana fela, kwa ntle ga gore o bo o na le

bangwe ba e le gore ke ba ba tswang kwa ntle ba kitso ya bone e sa gaiseng ya gago mo

kgwebong. O bo o ipotsa gore matsapa di a tsaya kae.

Mma ke simolole ka bojanala jo e leng gore gompieno ke jone jo re tshwanetseng gore re
ipelafatse ka jone re le Batswana gore le rona re tsenye diatla mo teng. Re a rotloediwa

go twe, lekang le le Batswana gore le lona le tsene mo bojanaleng. Fa o ya mo kgaolong

ya me e e leng gore tota ke ya bojanala, o ipotsa gore ba kae Batswana gompieno ba e

leng gore ba na le seabe mo bojanaleng. Gongwe ke ba ba kwano ba e leng gore ke

shareholders tsa dikompone tse dingwe tse e leng gore ke tsa mafatshe a sele. Wena o le

Motswana, o tlaa nna gone fa. Selo sa ntlha ke gore o tlaa batlwa gore o tle ka financial

plan, e e leng gore e simolola fela gone foo e bo e go diga, e go batla madi a e leng gore

ga o ka ke wa a kgona.

MR MATLHABAPHIRI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Ke ne ke re, ke botse

gore a Motlotlegi Rre Mabiletsa o ntse sentle? Mme ke yoo o fudugile yoo.

MADAM SPEAKER: Okay, o ikgalemetse.

MR MORUTI: Ke gore, tse di batlwang fela fa o batla go tsena mo kgwebong ya

bojanala o le kompone kampo o le an individual, o le Motswana, di a go ntsha gotlhelele

mo kgwebong eo. Di go supegetsa gore you cannot afford go tsena foo, financially le

tsone tse di tlhokagalang gore o bo o na natso, ga di go letle. Automatically, go raya gore

ga o na alternative, o tshwanetse gore o batle joint venture yo o ka kopanang nae. Le fa o

se na go nna o batla joint venture, ga go na ka fa o sirelediwang ka teng gore kwa

bofelong e se ka ya go tseela business. Ke ene yo o tlaa dirang sengwe le sengwe. Selo se

se tshwanang le se, se dira gore fronting e nne ntsi, Batswana jaanong ba simolole go dira

fronting. Fronting e e nnang teng e, e rotloediwa ke melao, ditsamaiso tse di teng mo

lefatsheng. O iteka o le Motswana, o leka diphatlha tsotlhe, kgantele o bona gore ga go na

ka fa o ka tswelelang ka teng, ke gore o dire fronting gore o tle o kgone go tshela.

Jaanong mme ga twe bojanala ke joo, le ka tsena mo go bone Batswana mme ba sa fiwe
dithata gore ba kgone go tsena mo bojanaleng.

MR MOATLHODI: Ke kopa tlhaloso Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Ke a

leboga Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, e bile ke lebogela thata

Mokaulengwe Motlotlegi Rraetsho Moruti, Mopalamente wa Okavango. Ke ne ke re, in

order to understand him very well, a re tlhalosetse gore a Batswana gore ba tsene mo

kgwebong e ya bojanala, a ba se ka ba tlhokwa all the necessary requirements, ba tsene

fela ka gore ke Batswana? Mme fa e le gore re ya go tsena fela re le Batswana go se na se

re se batlwang pertaining to the running of this institute that we want to endeavour into, a

mme gone e tlaa re kwa bofelong jwa letsatsi, shall we have met the required standard?

MR MORUTI: Ke a leboga. Rraetsho o ne a batla clarification, gore ke mo tlhalosetse

gore ke raya jang. Ga ke bone gore go botlhale gore o reye ngwana wa gago o re, gore o

je boswa jwa me fa e se o hula tlhobolo, mme o sa mo ruta go hula tlhobolo. Ga ke itse

gore a go botlhale go dira jalo. Fa o tla ka lenaneo le le tshwanang le lone le o bo o re

Batswana ba tsene mo go lone mme o itse gore qualifications tse o di batlang Batswana

ga ba a di tshola, o direla eng jalo?

MR SEBETELA: On a point of elucidation Madam Speaker. Ke ne ke re, Rre

Moatlhodi, Mopalamente yo o tlotlegang a itse gore le America, lefatshe le le

tlhabologileng, letsatsi jeno jaaka re bua jaana, ba sa ntse ba thusa dikompone tsa

Makgoa a a rutegileng go re feta ka financial technical le contracting tota, go ba ruta

gore o ka bona tiro ya ga goromente jang, kwa lefatsheng le le tlhabologileng. Ke gore,

ga ba beye policy fela ba bo ba re itekeng, ba le tshwara ka mabogo. Ke sone se o se

buang.

MR MOATLHODI: Further clarification Madam Speaker. A Motlotlegi o a lemoga
gore mo Botswana re na le yone metlhala e re rayang Batswana re re ba iteke ka yone?

Re na le CEDA le mananeo a mangwe. Mme mananeo a, letlhaku le le sha le agelwa mo

go le le gologolo. Bathong tlhe Rraetsho Gaolathe o buile maloba, a re tlogeleng go

ikgala unnecessarily. Re na le metlhala ya go nna jalo.

MR MORUTI: Nnyaa, ke a leboga ka gore CEDA e go neetse madi a go reka dikhombi,

jaanong o tsaya gore mongwe le mongwe fela o kgona go bona madi a go nna jalo. Nna

ke bua ka batho ba ke ba emetseng, ba e leng gore ka kitso ya me le ka fa ke lebileng

seemo ka teng, le mathata a ba nang nao, ga ba kgone go tsena mo dikgwebong. Batho ba

kgaolo ya me ba lekile go kopa go dirisa CEDA, mo seemong sa tourism go padile. Ba

lekile gore ba bone lefatshe, fela kwa ntle ga madi, lone lefatshe fela gore ba le bone gore

ba kgone go tsamaisa tourism projects mo teng ga makgobokgobo, go padile. Maloba ke

ne ke botsa potso mo Palamenteng mo, ke botsa gore ka Batswana kwa ba ikopantse, ba

ikgaogantse ditlhopha gore le bone ba kgone go tsenya letsogo mo tourism, go pala eng,

mme go tulwe ba ikopantse semorafe. Mme ga ke a kgona go botsa gore fa go twe

semorafe go tewa eng. E ne e arabiwa potso e e ntseng jalo gone fa. Jaanong fa e le gore

Batswana ba ka tewa gatwe ba dire ditlhopha, e re ba se na go di dira jalo go bo gotwe, le

semorafe, ke mathata. Fa motho a re o tsena as an individual ga twe nnyaa, ga go

letlelelwe gore o tsene as an individual.

MR MASWABI: On a point of elucidation Madam Speaker. Nna ke ne ke re, go a

itumedisa, Mapalamente re ntse re a ntsifala. Go monate go utlwa gore yo mongwe o

bonye dikhombi ka CEDA. Ke a leboga.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Laughter! Laughter!

MR MORUTI: Ke a leboga rraetsho. Jaanong o bo o ipotsa gore fa Batswana ba
ikopantse ba batla lefatshe mme le pala kwa ba tshwanetseng go dira bojanala teng, fa

Batswana ba ikopantse ba batla madi kwa CEDA go pala, fa Batswana ba ikopantse ba

batla plan e e leng gore gongwe ba ka thusiwa ka yone, madi a teng ba sa a kgone gore ba

ka duela plans tseo, ba tsena jang mo bojanaleng? Kwa ntle ga gore Batswana bao ba e

leng gore ba tlaa tsena mo bojanaleng ke ba e leng gore ke retired permanent secretaries

ba ba nang le madi a a kalokalo a go kgona gore ba tsene foo. Mme fa e le gore mananeo

a direlwa bone batho ba ba tlogetseng tiro ka bogodi ba, go siame, no problem, re ka a

amogela. Mme fa e le gore a direlwa Batswana botlhe ba e leng gore tota ke Batswana ba

e leng gore ga ba a itsholela sepe, ga ke tlhaloganye gore ba ka tsena jang mo teng.

MR GAOLATHE: Mr Speaker, on a point of clarification and advice. Really some of us

get worried when Honourable Members will come here so worried about certain things

that the government has not done but could have done. For instance, if there are people

who have formed companies wanting to participate in tourism development but failed,

and then the Honourable Member comes here, he has got the right to come here. He has

not gone to the Minister of Lands to say look, there are people here who have been

struggling to get land in order to set up a lodge, a camp or whatever or, there are people

with viable projects who have been turned away from CEDA out there. This way we can

facilitate that those people should go and see the Chairman who is presently Mr Magang,

Chief Executive etc. I do appreciate the fact that not everybody knows the way to go next

but the Honourable Member does know. But certainly to come here, which is your right,

and say these things, it is painful. We would like in addition to reporting to Parliament,

when you know specific individuals who have been frustrated by government machinery,

to bring that to our attention so that we can also see whether there is something we can do
about it. Thank you.

MR MOATLHODI: Further elucidation Madam Speaker. Ke a leboga Motlotlegi

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. My heart is equally broken. Ke ne ke re, ke

sedimosetse Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Okavango gore kana phathi e e mo pusong ke e

a tsileng kwano ka yone ya Domkrag. Ga ke re fa e leng diphoso teng e retiwe, mme fela

fa e dirileng sentle teng, go tshwanetse ga buiwa gore puso e dirile sentle. Ke batla go mo

fa sekai ka the former Member of Parliament yo a tsereng mo go ene, Rraetsho

Kavindama, o ne a kopa go dira tourism, ba mo tima. He appealed to His Excellency the

President, mme a fenya. A bone ba gagwe o ba isitse kwa go Motlotlegi Rraetsho

Tautona gore kana Batswana ke ba, ba a ganwa?

MR MORUTI: Kana ke gore golo fa go na le ba bangwe ba e leng gore ba simolola go

batla bolatswa thipa jo bo sa tlhokagaleng. Nna kana fa bagaetsho se ke se buang, ga ke

bue ka goromente. Goromente o dirile policies, ke tsaya gore policies tse goromente o ne

a di direla Batswana. Potso e ke e botsang ke gore, a mme tsone policies tse goromente a

di dirileng tse, a Batswana ba a di akola? These are nice policies. Ke tsaya gore, gore go

twe Batswana ba tsene mo tourism ke selo se se itumedisang, nnete ke gore a mme bone

Batswana ba teng mo tourism? Fa ba le teng, ke ba fe, kwa ntle ga gore e bo e le batho ba

ba ka kwano. Tona o bua sentle, puo e ke e buang e, ke boditse dipotso mo Palamenteng

mo, ke simolotse kwa ofising, le Tona wa Lands o teng gone fa. Ke ne ka supa ka fa

batho ba kgaolo ya me ba batlang go tsena mo tourism ka teng, mme ba thibelwa ke

seemo sa lefatshe go le bona. O tsamaile mo kgaolong ya me, o utlwile ka fa Batswana ba

lelang ka teng ba sa bone lefatshe, ba le batla gore le bone ba tsene mo kgwebong ya

tourism. Karabo e ke arabilweng ka yone ke gore batho bao ga ba fiwe ka gore ba itirile
ditlhopha tsa semorafe. Fa ke re jaanong ke tsaya karabo ya ga Tona ke ya kwa kgaolong

ke ya go tlhotlhomisa semorafe se a neng a se bua mo Palamenteng, ga ke se bone mo

ditlhopheng tsone tseo. Fa e le gore ke ya Itekeng, e tsentse batho ba Sesarwa, Seyeyi le

Sebanderu mo teng, go bo gotwe ke ya semorafe, ke ipotsa gore setlhopha se se yang go

nna se e seng sa semorafe ke se fe kwa ntle ga gore ke tsela fela ya go leka go thibela

bana ba ba arametseng mogote wa tourism go tsena mo kgwebong e. Karabo ya ga Tona

e a neng a e ntsha maloba fa, ga ke itse gore o e tsere kae ka gore ga e na boammaaruri,

ya gore batho ba ba dirile ka semorafe. Se sengwe se re se buang, fa re bua ka gore batho

ba palelwa ke madi a CEDA, ke dilo tse ke dibuileng, ke simolotse go di bua ke le kwa

khanseleng. Ke supa le bone ba CEDA monwana, ke ba raya ke re, ba a re dirisa. Re tla

ka megopolo, re a e ba neela, fa o se na go nna o ba neela mogopolo they turn down your

application. Go tswa fa ba tsaya megopolo eo ya gago, ka moso o tlaa bona motswakwa

le mongwe wa bone a le mo teng ba dira project e e tshwanang le eo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Foo ke a go dumela.

MR MORUTI: O a ntumela, o tlaa ntumela fa re ntse re tsweletse.

Dilo tse re di supile Rraetsho Ministara. Re di supile mo dikhanseleng le gongwe le

gongwe. Puso ya rona e nna fatshe, e dira mananeo a e leng gore a ka thusa lefatshe le,

mme golo gongwe mo implementation go na le mathata. Go sokodisa Batswana. Ga ke

itse gore a maikaelelo ke gore Batswana ba fetogele puso kana e ka bo e le eng, ga ke

itse. Mme kana ke wena o supervisang implementation. Jaanong, puo e, re e bua time and

again. Fa re bua ka gore Batswana ba emphawarwe, re bua kgang e mo Palamenteng mo

malatsi otlhe. Dikompone tsa Batswana di a wa gompieno jaana.

Fa o ya kwa bankeng ga o kake wa bona o thusiwa, o ya go fiwa madi a mannye a go
itsiweng gore morago ga dingwaga tse five go tlaa bo go ole o bo o gapelwa gotlhe,

dikgomo, mantlo le sengwe le sengwe. E bo e tsewa ke mongwe a e reka foo. Ke se re se

itseng. Jaanong dilo tse rona ga re bue ka puso, phathi ya Domkrag e kwadile sentle gore

maikaelelo a yone ke go thusa batho ka tsela e e ntseng jang. Mananeo a teng a e leng

gore a mo molomong fela gore jaanong a implementiwe ga a implementiwe. Gompieno

jaana maloba o ne o re bolelela ka projects o re go ya go dirwa projects fela e tlaa re

ngwaga o simologa go tlaa bo go itaya peke fela mo Botswana. Ngwaga o a fela ke o. A

Tona ga o bone?

MR SEBETELA: Point of elucidation. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente kgang e

kana e e buiwang ya gore go bonwe Matona nna ke tsaya gore fa go bodiwa dipotso mo

Palamenteng dipotso tseo di a bo di supa matshwenyego a gore re na le mathata. Jaanong

ke ne ke sa ntse maloba fa Modulasetilo e le Rre Balopi ke fa dikai tsa dikarabo tse di

tswang mo lephateng la ga Tona Rre Gaolathe mo Ntlong e. Gompieno jaaka ke bua le

wena jaana batho ba ba fandilweng ka Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency

(CEDA) ba a rekisiwa Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Puso ga e reke mo go

bone, e bile gone mo Palamenteng e mo lephateng la ga Rre Gaolathe la Finance fa o

botsa gore le rekile ka P90 million kwa Bank of Botswana ke bokae se se ileng kwa

baneng ba Botswana ba ba fundiwang ka CEDA, ke batla go nankola karabo e e tswang

kwa lephateng la ga Tona go tlhalosa gore re a itela. Ke kopa go e nankola. “Mr Speaker,

during calendar year 2003/2004 the Bank procured goods and services amounting to

P84.6 million and P97.3 million respectively. The Bank differentiates the suppliers on the

basis of locally based versus foreign based rather than on a shareholding basis.”

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente P200 million o rekile kwa Bank of Botswana, re
itedile mo Palamenteng fa gore madi a mo go one bana ba Botswana ba ba tsereng madi

ka CEDA ba latswitse bokae? Karabo ke gore nnyaa, kwa Bankeng ya Botswana P200

million yo re itse fela gore o rekile mo Botswana. Ga se gone jaaka re ne re itela batho

gore Matona a ye go dira sengwe. Ke gore ke tlhalosa kgang ya gore re a itela mme nnete

ke gore go tla go tsena gompieno ga re bone maduo, fela jaaka Rre Moruti a supa. Ga go

na yo o sa itseng gore kwa north tourism e mo bathong ba e seng Batswana. Gatwe re bue

eng se sesha ka gore ga re a bolo go bua kgang e?

MR MORUTI: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. Bagaetsho nna ke

bua…

MR MASISI: Point of clarification. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente mma ke go

leboge le Mopalamente Rre Moruti ke mo leboge go bo a mphile sebakanyana se. Ke ne

ke utlwile kgantele a bua puo e nngwe e e sa ntseng e tsamaya mo go nna. Ke e

tlhaloganye fa a re fa e le gore go ntse jaana go raya gore re chenche puso. Jaanong ke re

gongwe a o ne a raya go chencha puso kana go chencha boeteledipele jo bo tshwereng

kwa pele gompieno ka gore jaanong tsamaiso e re e solofeditseng Batswana ga e tsamaye

ka fa re solofeditseng ka teng.

MR MORUTI: Ke a leboga. Tota selo sa ntlha ke gore ga ke kake ka bua ka re puso e

chenchiwe. Fa e chenchiwa e fiwa mang? Ga go na ope yo o ka e fiwang. Jaanong ke one

mathata a ke nang nao. Se ke se buang ke gore kana puso e e teng fa e teng fa ka rona re

le Madomkrag, mme e teng fa ka maitlamo a rona re le ba phathi ya ga Domkrag a re a

beileng Batswana pele re ba raya re re re tlhopheng ka maitlamo ke a. Batswana ba bo ba

re tlhopha ka phathi ya Domkrag re bo re ya go dira goromente ene yo o teng gompieno.

Re solofetse gore goromente yo o teng gompieno o dirilwe ka Domkrag o tlaa tsamaisa
tiro ya gagwe jaaka Domkrag e batla. Se ke se buang fa ke gore a puso e tsamaise dilo

jaaka Domkrag e batla. Domkrag ke yone e buang gore a Batswana ba akole meamuso ya

lefatshe la bone, le boipuso ja bone. Jaanong fa go tliwa mo implementation is the other

way round. Instead ya gore Batswana ba akole meamuso ya lefatshe le jaanong e akolwa

ke bangwe ba sele, se Domkrag e sa se bueng. So nna ke fa ke le Modomkrag yo o

popotla yo ke batlang gore dilo di tsamaisiwe sentle Batswana ba itumelele se ba se

tlhophang.

Jaanong mma ke tlogele ya tourism ka gore tota ka kwano ke dihotela fela tse e leng gore

le tsone ga go na Batswana mo teng. Jaanong nna ke bua ka kwa ka gore ke a itse gore

Batswana ba leka go iteka kwa go pala. Botona ba bangwe gone fa ba teng ba lekile go

batla lefatshe gone kwa madi a a pala. Jaanong fa go palelwa Tona go tsaya madi kwa

bankeng nna jaanong go ya go nna jang. Di teng ditsha gone kwa di tlaa tloga di tsewa.

Ba sale ba di apolaela ba di filwe, fa o ba botsa gore mathata ke eng ba go raya ba re kwa

bankeng go a pala. Jaanong Motswana fela wa sekei yo o kwa yo o sa berekeng go

palelwa Tona, go palelwa permanent secretary e ne o ya go tsena jang …

MR LEFHOKO: Point of elucidation. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente, ke leboga le mokaulengwe Motlotlegi Moruti ka mafoko a a buang a ise a

tswe mo tourism e le sengwe sa dikai. Ke bue gore nnyaa betsho, mo Setswaneng re na le

diane le maele, mme fa o bona re tsweletse ka go bua puo e re sa kgale mo go yone ke

gore sengwe ga se tsamaye sentle. Mme e bile ga re kake ra itsapela go bua go fitlhelela

dikgato di tsewa tsa gore re bone gore ba ba nang le boikarabelo ba a tshikhinyega ba

tsaya dilo ba bona gore di tsamaela gore jaanong Batswana ba simolole go tsena mo

itsholelong ya lefatshe e seka ya tswa babogedi. Setswana sa re, „pelo e sa eng phuha selo
e a bo e se sa yone.‟ Setswana sa re, „moseka phohu yabo ga a swe lentswe.‟ Ga le na go

swa. Ke a leboga.

MR MORUTI: Ke a leboga Mopalamente yo o Tlotlegang. Ke tlhomoga pelo, re ne re

ntsha madi maloba fa re a ntshetsa banana ke itheile ka re le ba kgaolo ya me le bone ba

ya go nna le seabe mo mading a. Ka bo ke nna fa fatshe ke ipotsa gore seabe se

bongwanake ba yang go nna naso mo mading a ke ba ya go dira projects dife mo

kgaolong e ke leng mo go yone. Ke bo ke akanya tourism. Ke bo ke simolola ke

tlhotlhomisa, ke ya go latolelwa gore kana fa o tsena fela and venture mo tourism one

madi fela a a ntsheditsweng lefatshe lotlhe a tsewa ke project e le nngwefela. Fa ke batla

go dira lodge yone e Kavindama o reng o e dirile e ba neng ba mo raela mo go yone e

gompieno ba e tsereng gompieno ke motho wa Modimo ba e tsere, ba mo tseetse sengwe

le sengwe, ba ya go tsaya le mantlo a gagwe o ya go nna destitute ya bofelo. Ba mo

humanegisitse. Project e le nngwefela ya tourism e ke e dirang mo kgaolong e ya go

tsaya one madi a e leng gore a ntsheditswe lefatshe lotlhe. Ke bo ke ipotsa gore bana ba

ya go dira project ya tourism ya mohuta ofe. Fa ke botsa ke ntse ke tlhotlhomisa ba re

nnyaa, lebala ka tourism botoka ka go na le metsi dira morogonyana fa thoko ga noka o

ba rotloetse ba dire morogonyana le go rua dikokonyana, ke tsone tse ba ka tsenang mo

go tsone. Go bo go raya gore ke na le mathata. Jaanong dilo tse re di bua jaana re di

bolelela Botona ba le filweng boikarabelo re sena go nna re kgarakgatshega mo Batswana

ba re tlhopha ka maitlamo a rona a Domkrag le bo lona le tla go fiwa boikarabelo ja gore

le tsamaise sekepe se kwa se batlang go ya teng. A ko Batswana ba fiwe ditshwanelo tsa

bone jaaka Domkrag e bua.

Mma re tsene mo go tse tsa dikhansele. Mo dikhanseleng go na le Batswana ba ba nang le
dibusiness tse e leng gore ke tsa dishopo, dikomponenyana tse e leng gore ba solofetse

gore gongwe ba ka bona ditendara mo khanseleng. Ditendara tsa dikago, ditendara tsa go

phakisa batlhoki jalo-jalo. Mme tlhotlhomisa o bone gore a tsone dijo tse di phakiwang

ke batlhoki a ke tse ba di tsayang mo Batswaneng. O tlaa fitlhela e le gore ke Makula ba

ba phakisang dijo tse. Wena fa o le Motswana o tsena mo teng go tlaa dirwa melao e e

strict gore e go paledise. O bo o palelwa go bo gotwe ga ke re ke yo o a palelwa e bile o

sapolaya dijo tse di bodileng, ba sa bue nnete. O bo o ntshiwa go bo go tsenngwa Lekula.

MR MASALILA: Point of clarification. Ke ne ke re ke botse mokaulengwe gore a o ka

re thusa gore melao e e leng gore e direlwa Batswana gore ba seka ba kgona go bona

ditendara ke e e ntseng jang e e leng gore ga e ame ba bangwe ba ba bonang ditendara?

MR MORUTI: Kana nna ke tswa mo Finance, ke gone ke neng ke tswa maloba jaana. E

rile fa lenaneo le fa le simolola la Orphans and Destitutes e ne e le gore fa go iwa kwa

kgaolong ya Seronga go fitlhelwa Motswana a na le shopo koo e e ka kgonang to supply

batho ba Seronga, Motswana yoo a fiwe boikarabelo jwa go supply batho ba Seronga. Fa

go iwa kwa Beetsha go fithelwa e le gore kwa Beetsha go na le semausu se se siameng se

se ka kgonang to supply batho go lebilwe ditlhwatlhwa, Motswana yo o koo a fiwe

boikarabelo joo. Batswana ba ne ba sapolaya batho sentle go sena dingongorego jaaka

gompieno go ntse go tsaya dikgwedi tse tlharo, tse nne go sa supplywe. Ba ne ba sapolaya

sentle go bo go emisiwa. Go bo gotwe re tsena mo tendareng mme tender e re batla

motho yo o nang le koloi e e ntseng jaana, motho yo o nang le shopo e e ntseng jaana,

dilo tseo tsotlhe di bo di batliwa. Gompieno jaana yo o winang tender eo ke motho yo o

kwa Maun yo o nang le shopo kwa Maun di bo di tsaya dikgwedi tse tharo tse nne gore di

ye go goroga kwa Beetsha.
MR SEBETELA: Point of elucidation Madam Speaker. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente ke ne ke re melawana e mengwe ke e e sa kwalwang ke puso ke e e itirelwang

ke badirelapuso. Mopalamente yo o Tlotlegang a re, gore badirelapuso ba seka ba itirela

melawana eo bone dikapoteni tsa phathi ya Domkrag tse e rileng re sena go thophiwa ba

tsenngwa mo sekepeng gatwe tsamaisang ba tshwanetse gore ba tsenye leitlho le le

nthontho gore ba bone gore dilo tse ga di dirwe. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente

mma ke go fe sekai ka baroki kwa motseng wa Palapye. Rona re ntse re itse gore uniform

e e fiwang bana ba gotweng ba a tlhoka e tshwanetse ya fiwa bone barokinyana ba

banyennyane. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente badirelapuso ba ba tsenang mo

lebogong ba ba sentsweng ke go senyetsa puso, ba e neele ditsala tsa bone tse ba ba

latlhelelang sengwe. E a tsewa e dirwa tona, ga ke re ga e dirwa tona ga gona ope yo o ka

kgonang go ntsha diuniform tse 70 tse 100, e a tsewa e ya go neelwa yo motona. Tsone

dikgwebonyana tse di kwa tlase tse Rre Masalila a sa itse, Mme Mma Nasha a sa itse

bone ba ithaya ba re dilo di dirwa sentle, di a wa. Le kwa dimausung go phakisa

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, o tlaa fitlhela motho a le mongwefela a phakisa

500, dimausunyana di a wa. Ke re ke tsone dilo tse e leng gore mokaulengwe le rona re

bua ka tsone gore dilo tse di tshwanetse go tsenngwa leitlho go bona gore di ya kwa

bathong ba ba tshwanetseng ke batho ba ba fa pele ba.

DR NASHA: Further elucidation Madam Speaker Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente, tota re tshwanetse gore re tlhwaafalele matshelo a batho. Ke batla go

tlhamalatsa kgang gore, go tsamaisa Ministry wa Local Government ke go tsamaisa

lefatshe le, le kwa dikgokgotshwaneng tsa teng. Mme fa o sena information ya gore dilo

dingwe kwa ga di tsamaye sentle, e o sa kakeng wa e bolelelwa ke ba ba dirang, ga o
kake wa dira sepe. Maabane fela jaana, ke ne ke phatlalatsa selo se se tshwanang le se

Rre Sebetela a se buang, kwa Southern District, e le gore masiela ba apesiwa uniform e e

sa tshwaneng le ya ba bangwe. Ba a bonala fela gore, ba, ke ba ba tlhokang, ke masiela.

Ka phatlalatsa golo mo gore, the same supplier le gone ba ba mo gae, a ba neele bana di-

uniform. Mme fa ke sa itse, ke tla go itsisiwe fa, ga gona jaaka ke ka dira Mokwena. Ke

buile gantsi-gantsi gore, re tsamaisa lephata le ka thuso ya batlotlegi ba ba fano fa. Gore

ba letse tloloko fa mathata a nna teng.

Sa bobedi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, tota gone fa e le gore mathata a teng, a

teng. Rre Moruti o a itse gore bone ba dimausu le ba bangwe ba a ba buang bao, bangwe

ba bone, mokgosi o ne wa tla fa, ba neela batho dijo tse di bodileng. Ga se gore ka gore

ke Batswana kana ba ba nnyennyane dilo tsotlhe di apara tshiamo. We have to address

the problems as they occur.

MR RAKHUDU: Further clarification Madam Speaker. Kana mathata a rona a a

buiwang ke batlotlegi jaaka Motlotlegi Moruti a bo a bua mo motion o ke gore,

goromente le fa gongwe Matona ba re ga re tlise dilo kwa go bone kana re tsisa dilo tse

ba bonang gore gongwe di administrative, mathata ke gore re a leka. Sekai, khansele

yone e ya Gaborone City, ya ntsha motion o o neng o kopa Tona ya tsa kgwebo, e ne e se

rre fa nako ya teng. Mme kana a ke re ke bua ka ministry. O re fela o re, a go siame gore

e re Batswana, in the informal sector, ba rekisa menoto, e bo e le gore Spar le sone se

apaya menoto se e rekisa. Kana fa go nna jalo, jaanong we are institutionalising this

empowerment by giving boSpar license tse di gakgamatsang. Motho a re, ke tsile go

rekisa ke le benkele, go tswa foo, o felela a nna mmaseapei, rabutchery, ga twe ka gore

kwa mafatsheng a mangwe go ntse jalo. Ke gone fa e leng gore jaanong re a bua. Ga se
gore Matona ga a itse. Fa re ka ya go lebelela files tsa bone tse dikgologolo, o ka

gakgamadiwa ke gore ba boleletswe gangwe le gape jalo. Jaanong fa re ba dira podi

matseba gone foo, go tswa foo, bone kana ba a tlhokomologa kana ba a reng. Kana selelo

se gone fa gore, re a bua ke gore ga le reetse. Jaanong fa re tla re bua on the floor, o ka re

re a le attacker. Terebang jaaka Domkraga e re go terejwe.

MR MORUTI: Ke batla gore ke bue thata ke dumalana le Minister yo o tlotlegang Mme

Mma Nasha gore mathata a teng. Ke tsaya gore e ne e le Minister ke le mo khanseleng ke

mo supegetsa mathata a. Ke mo raya ke re, re na le mathata ke a - a, b, c, e sa ntse e le

Minister wa Local Government ke le mo khanseleng ke mo supegetsa one. Ke one a ke

boang ke a mo supegetsa gape ke le mo palamenteng gore mathata a ke kileng ka a mo

supegetsa ke le kwa khanseleng, a ntse a teng le gompieno, ga a a solviwa. Ke sone se ke

batlang go mo supegetsa sone. Ga ke gane, go nale dijo tse di ka tswang di bola mo

semausung. Potso ke gore, a mme fa dijo di tsewa mo wholesale, a mo shopong gone ga

di bole. A re yeng kwa kgaolong re ye go bona gore, a boammaaruri joo bo teng, ka gore

gompieno jaanong selelo sa dijo tse di bolelang mo dikoloing ka gore di tlaa bo di

rwelwe, di isiwa kwa Beetsha jaanong se kwa godimo go gaisa. And for that matter,

batho ba tsaya dikgwedi di ka nna bo three to five ba sa bone dijo tse di lekanyeng. Ba

bolelelwa gore, di tlhaetse, re tlaa tla re di le neela mo kgweding e e tlang, ba bo ba ela

ruri. Go solva problem ya gore go na le dijo dingwe tse di bolang mo semausung, go

creatile mathata a a menaganyeng. Jaanong ke a mo gakolola ka re, a simolole a sekaseke

kgang e sentle.

Se sengwe se ke batlang go bua ka sone ke uniforms.

MR MASALILA: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. Ke ne ke re, ke leke go
tlhalosa gore, kana dilo tse tsa tshenyetso setshaba tse e leng gore go dirwa gore kana re a

roma. Jaanong fa re romile mme e le gore bana ga ba dire sentle ba kgalemele, fa e le

gore go utlwala go na le sengwe se se sa siamang, re neela ba ba tshwanetseng, ba ba

itseng ditlhotlhomiso dipuo tse. Ba ye, fa ke bua jaana, team e ile Tutume, e ile go

tlhotlhomisa. Ke belaela gore ba a bo ba tsile go boa fela ba sa bolelelwa gore go diragala

eng. Mme e le gore go utlwala e le gore dilo ga di a siama koo, le kwa Mahalapye. Mme

e bo e le gore, ke dilo tse e leng gore, ga ke lepodise ga ke kake ka tlhotlhomisa. Fa ele

gore go buiwa ka dilo tsa corruption, di tshwanetse di neelwe ba ba ka di kgonang. Mme

ka mapodise le bone ga ba dupelele, fa batho ba ba itseng gore go diragala eng ba sa bue,

kana go tlaa pala. Batho ba na le kitso e ba nang nayo, mme fa go rometswe batho ba ba

tlhotlhomisang, ga ba ba bolelele. Ke raya gore ke one mathata a re nang nao. Fa re ka

seka ra tshwaragana gore re baakanye golo fa, go tlaa nna thata.

MR MOATLHODI: On a point of elucidation. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente,

mutlwa wa noko o rotolwa ke o mongwe. Ka namana mathata a a buiwang ke Rraetsho

Moruti, e rile fa a tla kwa kgaolong yame, motho a tla a ikuela a re, e le mosadi seopana,

a re ke na le bakery ke e mo Tonota e bidiwa gotwe Lomboko Bakery. Ke tswa go e

kopela madi kwa CEDA, mme ke tenderetse dikole, fa ke sa ntse ke solofetse tender,

nako ya tenders di bulwa, go ne go sena motho gone fa yo o tswang kwa Francistown.

Letsatsi la fa go setse go dirilwe award, go filwe motho kwa Francistown o bidiwa go

twe Farmhouse. Re boletse gore motho yo o o tswa kae. Fa ke re ke botsa ba Tutume, ba

re, nnyaa, re tlaa tlhotlhomisa, six full months, nna ka namana ke iketse kwa go bone. Ga

se yone fela, go a twe re tlaa tlhotlhomisa. Ga se gore ga re ba bolelele, re a ba bolelela,

mathata ke gore, rona le fa o ka ya go bolelela ba ba tona, go felela go se gope.
MR MORUTI: Ke lebogela gore Mopalamente jaanong re mmogo. Jaaka ke kopile gore

e tlaa re fa re ntse re tsweletse re bo re le mmogo.

Rraetsho, Tona o bua sentle, gone jaaka ke bua jaana, kwa kgaolong ya me go

tlhotlhomisiwa seemo se se ntseng jalo ke ba sepodise kana ba corruption. Tse dingwe ga

se tsedi batlang ditlhotlhomiso, ke tse e leng gore o di bona ka matlho. Tse dingwe

mokwaledi kwa khansele wa di supegediwa go twe, ke tse. Re solofele gore sengwe se

tlaa diragala, mme se seke se diragale.

MR LEFHOKO: On a point of elucidation. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente, le Motlotlegi Rre Moruti gore, go boammaaruri. Kana dilo tse tsa gore

reporote, re a porota, go bo go iwa go tlhotlhomisiwa. Fa gongwe ditlhotlhomiso tseo di

nna monama o ya. Mme jaaka Rre Moruti a bua, tse dingwe tota, ga re le rona re nne le

immediate controls, dilo tse e leng gore re ka laola gone foo. Fa e le gore go tlaa tsaya

gore the whole Minister e nne ene a yang go phatlalatsa dilo tsa di-uniform tsa masiela,

lefatshe la Botswana le atlhame le na le metse e le kana-kana, o ka kgona? Let us

decentralise and devolve powers downwards to other structures gore ba le thuse, ba le

tseye tema. Le yone DCEC ga e kake ya kgona lefatshe le le kana. Re tshwanetse re nne

le ka fa re laolang dilo ka teng, le ba ba ka kgalemang foo boemong jwa gago o le Tona

ka gore lefatshe le namile.

MS TSHIRELETSO: Further elucidation Madam Speaker. Mmaetsho ke ne ke re gape

ke gakolole gore, jaaka ke ne ke bua ka e nngwe ya dimente gore, go ne ga awardiwa

dimente tsa neelwa dikompone, mme kwa bofelelong dikompone tseo tsa felela di sa

supply, re sa itse kwa semente se ileng teng. Nna ke ne ka tsaya kgato, motho yo o, a tsile

kwa go nna, ka bolelela yo o romilweng ke Tona e bong ACS. Jaanong ke batla go itse
gone fa gore, jaaka gongwe Tona e le ene a felelang a itse, ba ba romilweng ba, re reng,

ka re kile ra mover motion of no confidence rona mo mongweng. A re nne re kope

makhanselara ba dire jalo.

MR GAOLATHE: On a point of procedure Madam Speaker. I am listening very

carefully noting the valuable comments that are coming from Members. But I am getting

a bit worried procedurally that the debate in some cases is gravitating to becoming a

triangle. When you take really, clarification must be directed to the Honourable Member

holding the floor, it should be to a straight-line. And I see that there has been a tendency

to wander, for instance when the Minister has responded, other Members have tended to

deal with what the Minister has said instead of concentrating on what the Honourable

Member on the floor is saying. So, I hope we can avoid that.

MADAM SPEAKER: Ke boammaaruri Honourable Minister.

MR MORUTI: Ke a leboga Madam Speaker. Mma ke tlogele e ya dijo ka tota ke yone e

e tlhomolang pelo. Mma ke tsene mo go ya uniform ya bana kwa dikoleng. Batswana ba

ne ba fiwa mananeo a mannyennyane mo nakong e le a SMME, gore ba nne baroki mo

dikomponenyaneng tsa bone. Ba rokele bana ba rona uniforms. Ba tsweletse, fa ba ya

kwa dibankeng, madi a ba kgonang go a fiwa ke one a go roka fela. Ka a mangwe tota ga

se kwa ba ka kgonang teng. Ke gore motho a fiwe a dikoko le a go roka. Mme kana fa ba

kopa mananeo a go roka, ba kopa ba targetile bana ba dikole gore ba tlaa kgona go ba

rokela. Ba tlaa tla ba kgona go rua dikoko, gore ba rekisetse batlhoki le dikole. Se se

utlwisang botlhoko ke gore, mo kgaolong ya me maloba fa ke tsamaya mo go yone,

Batswana botlhe ba ba neng ba ikopela go rokela dikole uniform, ga twe uniform ya bone

ga se quality e e siameng. Se se diragalang ke gore batho ba PTA ba seka-seka quality ya
uniform, e ntse e le bone ba bo ba re, uniform e e siametseng bana ba rona ke e, le

moroko o re o ratang ke o. Golo gongwe go bo gotwe, tse tsa Batswana ga se quality, tse

e leng quality ke tsa South Africa.

MR MASALILA: On a point of clarification. Clarification e ke e kopang ke gore,

mokaulengwe o bua ka uniform gore go dira PTA. Kana bontsi jwa bana mo sekoleng ba

rekelwa uniform ke batsadi ba bone, ga gona fa tender e tsenang teng. Tenders di ama

bana ba masiela le ba batlhoki fela. So, ga ke tlhaloganye gore, a gona le yo o ka rayang

batsadi gore, uniform e ya go rekwa kwa bokete-kete, kwa ntle ga e le gore PTA ke yone

e reng, rona re tlhopha letsela le. Mo e leng gore fa e ntse jalo, ga e ame ope, ke ya

batsadi le barutabana. Jaanong o ka re golo fa dilo di a tlhakatlhakana.

Gape ke tlhalose ke re, kana ke a gakgamala gore, nna le Minister wa me e rile fa re buisa

dikhansele, fa a sa ntse a le mo khanseleng, ba amogela a recommendation e tswa kwa

desk officers, ba na le pelaelo. Re ba raya re re, go pala eng gore le gane tender e, gore ga

re neele yo, go na le se re se belaelang. They endorsed the recommendations, go tswa foo

ba a ngongorega. Gore jaanong ba palelwa ke eng go bona gore, nnyaa, e, ga re e

amogele, re na le pelaelo, mme ba na le thata, e le komiti. Kana recommendation e ba e

dirang fa ba endorse, e ya kwa full council, e bo e dumelwa, fa e sena go dumelwa go

buiwa gape go twe, Minister should overule the council. E le gore go na le komiti e e

lebaganyeng le go aba tenders. E aba e belaela gore, golo fa, recommendations tse, ga se

tsone sentle. Ke eng le sa re, gona le gore le tseye letsatsi le le lengwe fela, you need two

days, a dipampiri tseo di tle. Ga go pale gore ba dire jalo, but they are not doing it. Thank

you.
MR MORUTI: Ga ke itse ka gore rraetsho ke...

PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED FOR APPROXIMATELY 25 MINUTES

MR MORUTI: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisano tsa Palamente. Fa ke emelela fa

Mothusa Tona wa Local Government one a ema a nkgakolola gore kana uniform e rekiwa

ke batsadi ga se bone ba e rekang. Ke tsaya gore ga re a utlwana le Minisitara, golo fa ke

bua ka ditendara le di-quotations. Fela fa ke bua ka tendara, ke bua ka di-quotations tse di

rekang uniform ke bua ka uniform e e le gore ke e e rekwang ke Council. E e rekwang ke

Council ke yone ya bone di-student le yone ya batho ke yone e e leng gore e rekwa ke

khansele ke yone e ke buang ka yone. Ke yone e ke reng ga ba reke mo dikomponeng tsa

Batswana. Ga ba reke mo dikhampaneng tse e leng gore ke tsa Batswana, ba prefera go

ya go reka di-uniform tseo ko bo South Africa. Ba preferra go ya go reka uniform eo mo

dishopong tse di tona, mme e tswa e le gore Batswana bone ba gotweng ga go a

tshwanelwa go reka mo go bone re ba file madi, re ba fa madi a Citizen Entrepreneurship

Development Agency (CEDA) gore ba roke di-uniform tse, re a di tlogela. Mme re di

tlogela re ya kwa jaana ba Parent Teachers Association (PTA) bone ba batla gore go

rekwe mo Batswaneng, ba bolela ba PTA gore mme uniform e, e e dirwang ke Batswana

e siametse bana e bo go twe nnyaa go tswanetse gore go ye go rekwa ko bo South Africa,

ke sone se ke se buang se. Ke bua ka uniform e e leng gore ke e e tendarelwang, e e

tendarelwang ke uniform ya the needy students. And ka mabaka one a a ntseng jalo e tlaa

re fa o ya kwa o fitlhela bana ba ka bontsi ba sena di-uniform ka ntata ya gore di-uniform

tseo di tsewa kgakala mo bathong ba e leng gore ga se Batswana, mme Batswana ba le

teng fa, ba kgona go dira di-uniform tse ga ke itse gore ga twe matsapa di a tsaya kae.

Jaanong yone puo e ga se maikutlo a maitlamo a ga Domkraga ke maikutlo a batho
bangwe ba sele. Ka gore a ga Domkraga one a re a Batswana ba e nne bone ba ba

thusiwang. Re ka ya gosele ga e le gore go apala gotlhelele gore re bone thuso mo go

bone. Kana e ya tle e re re bua mo Palamenteng mo bangwe ba bo ba re o ka re re bua

jaaka e kete ga re Madomkraga, re Madomkgraga ke gore dilo ga di tsamaye sentle. Re

tshwanetse go supa gore dilo ga di tsamaye jaaka ka fa party e re e setseng morago e

batlang ka teng. Ga se gore a bo re re re nale mathata, le fa e le yone puso kana re raya

gore Tona. Le ene ga re ka ke ra re phoso e e mo go ene as such ka gore le ene gongwe

go na le fa melao e mo palelang teng gore a supervise ka tsela e e rileng. Mme ga e le

gore go teng a melao eo e baakanngwe Minisitara a kgone go supervisa batho ba ba

tshwanetseng go delivara, batho ba tshwanetseng gore implementation e dirwe jaaka

Batswana ba rata jaaka Batswana ba tlhopha maikutlo a rona. Jaanong ga go tlhokafale

gore re dire di-policy, Batswana ba re tlhophe ka tsone and then ga re tsena mo pusong ya

bo e le gore ga re diragatse se Batswana ba re tlhophileng ka sone, ka maitlamo a rona.

Selo se se tshwanetse gore se nne clear. Batho bangwe ba e leng gore ga o bua ba nale

letshogo o tlaa utlwa a re o batla gore re tswe mo pusong e le gore ba a bo ba go di gore

gotwe ga o Modomkraga sentle, ke Modomkraga yo o tletseng e bile yo o sa oshaosheng.

Se ke se batlang ke gore a se se kwadilweng mo maitlamong a ga Domkraga se

diragadiwe jaaka se tshwanetse gore se diragadiwe. Fa e le gore go nale bangwe ba e leng

gore ga ba se diragatse golo gongwe e le go sabotaja puso a dilo tse di tswele kwa ntle.

Ga go thuse sepe gore re tsene mo di-freedom square re bolelele batho gore re tlhopheng

re ya go dira se le se se. E re fa re sena go nna re tlhophiwa re bo re sa diragatse se re

solofeditseng Batswana gore re tlaa se dira, ga go na mosola mo teng. Jaanong se ke se

buang fa ke gore a Batswana ba thusiwe, a Batswana ba je mofufutso wa phata tsa bone
jaaka ba huhula ba nna mo dilaeneng ba tlhopha puso e ba e ratang ya ga Domkraga e, a

Batswana ba je maungo a yone. Ke sone se ke lekang gore ke se bue.

Jaanong gona le e nngwe e e leng gore e utlwisa botlhoko go feta ya batho ba ba sa

itekanelang, digole. Batho ba modimo ba ba a tsewa ke goromente wa ga Domkraga ba

ya go rutiwa go dira ditlhako, go dira eng sengwe le sengwe ba rutiwa digole tsa modimo

tse. Fa ba sena go nna ba rutiwa dilo tse tsotlhe tse ba a tlogela gotwe tsamayang le tlaa

ipona. Le fa ba leka gore ba tsamaye ba ye go kopa dithuso ko dibankeng gore ba thusiwe

ba tsweledise se ba se rutilweng ga go diragale. Potso ke gore thuto e ba ne ba e rutelwa

gore ba ye go reng e le digole? Tumelo yame ke gore digole tse ga di ka phuthiwa tsa

bewa golo go le gongwe fela tsa thusiwa ke puso, digole tse di tlaa itirela.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: E re ba-na-le-bogole.

MR MORUTI: Ee, tota kana mathata ke gore ga ke ka bua Sembokushu ga le ka ke la

nkutlwa. Jaanong ke na le mathata gone foo ga twe ke ba-na-le-bogole. Mme bone ba-na-

le-bogole bao re a ba ruta, re ba ruta go roka ditlhako, dikobo, dilo tse tsotlhe re a di dira

mo go bone, fa re sena go nna re ba ruta jalo re ba tlogela fela mo lefatsheng ra re le tlaa

a ipona. Ba ya go bona kae madi le dithata? Mo ga se go imphawara Batswana, nna ka re

ga ba rutiwe jaaka ba imphawarilwe ka thuto jalo ba fiwe le madi gore ba ye go

tsweledisa se ba se rutilweng. Fa o tsena mo dikgaolong tsa rona kwa o ya go fitlhela

bone batho ba modimo bao ba e leng gore ba rutilwe ba sa ikgone ba ntse fela e le gore ga

gona se ba ka se itirang. Ba re botsa dipotso tsa gore mme ka ke tswa go rutiwa ga go ka

ke ga twe nnyaa a o na le bokgoni, bokgoni ke bo tshotse ke a roka ke boitsaanape jo ke

bo tshotseng. Se ke se tlhokang ke madi fela gore ke simolole business ya a ka, ke fiwa

leng madi gore ke simolole. Fa ke ya ko dibankeng gatwe ga ke qualify, ga ke na sepe se
ke se tshotseng se ke ka se ntshang. Ra re dilo tse di lebelelelwe tse dilo tse, di

lebelelelwe tse batho ba ba thusiwe jaaka ba rutilwe a ba thusiwe ka madi ba kgone go

itshetsa mo lefatsheng la bone, jaaka re bona mo mafatsheng a mangwe a re ka a ntshang

e le sekai.

Jaanong batho ba ba ko mafelong a e leng gore jaaka a a kwa godimo kwa ko

boKaudumo, ko bo Tshukumotshu kwa ba itse go dira disale, disale, ditlhako, diphate tse

e leng gore tota batho ba ka di reka. Mme fa batho bao, ba ba ko tengteng kwa ba e leng

gore ga ba re ba ikopanye ba kgone go batla madi mo pusong gore ba kgone go

tsweledisa go dira disale tse ga ba thusiwe. O bo o ipotsa gore jaanong ba ne ba isetswang

dikoleng. Ba bangwe ba tswa ko ba Kanye ka fa ba ya go rutiwa koo, ba rutiwa sengwe le

sengwe ba itse ba bo ba sena go nna ba rutiwa go bo go twe le tlaa ipona. Tota e le batho

ba tennyanateng, jaanong o sa itse gore ba tlaa ipona ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Jaanong tse ra re ee ke empowerment, mme ke empowerment e e leng gore ga e a wela, a

e wele. A batho ba ba rutiwe go dira ditlhako, disale, matlalo jaana ba bo ba fiwa madi go

twe jaanong ithuseng ba tsweledise dilo tse. I am sure ke se motlotlegi mopalamente wa

Palapye Rre Sebetela a se buang. Jaanong ra re nako e fitile ya gore re ipotse gore re le

ba ga Domkraga a tota se re se solofeditse batho a tota a se a diragadiwa. Mme ga se sa

diragadiwe mabaka ke eng. A go na le sabotaje mo teng, sabotaje ga e le teng e dirwa ke

mang? Nako eo e tsile, nako ya gore re didimale mo Palamenteng ga e yo, ga e yo nako

eo ya gore re didimale. A go ka tweng, a go ka tweng ga re ka ke ra didimala. Se se

setseng ke gore a bokowa jo bo baakanngwe batho go dilivarwe, implementation e nne

teng. Gore re didimale ga gona moo ke go itshwenya fela.

Ke tsena mo ditendareng, go utlwisa botlhoko fa re bua ka ditendara, ka fa di
prosesiwang ka teng mo khanseleng goromente a bo a tla ka mogopolo wa gore ke batla

go ntswa Makhanselera mo tenda bordeng, go tlhomola pelo. Golo mo go supagala sentle

fela gore goromente wa rona ga itse se diragalang because ga e ka bo e le gore goromente

wa rona o tlhaloganya se se diragalang o ka bo a ka se kake a re Makhanselara ba ntshiwe

mo tenda bordeng. Ga o utlwa go twe go na le selo se gotweng evil advice ke yone e, ya,

ke yone evil advice yone e. Go raya gore go na le mongwe yo a adevaesitseng puso ka

jalo mme motho yo a neng a adevaesa puso ka tsela e e ntseng jalo ke motho yo a sa

siamelang puso. Selo se re tshwanetse gore re se bue re tlhamaletse fela sentle because ga

re bua ka ditendara user department ke yone e e nnang fa fatshe, e dira sengwe le sengwe

e bo e se fetsa, go tswa foo e bo e isa ko komiting ya technical board e ya go nna e dira

sengwe le sengwe e se fetsa, e bo e isa ko managementeng. Ko e leng gore all these

stages ga go na lepolotiki mo teng ke bone fela badiredi fela. Go simolola kwa go tsena

mo distaging tsotlhe ke bone badiredi fela ba bo ba ya go fetse ko managementeng e le

bone badiredi ba bo ba tle ka recommendation ba e tlisa ko tenda bodeng.

Recommendation ga e tla ko tenda bodeng ga o ka e botsa o le Mokhanselara o e botsa

thata, o tswelela thata, o tlaa tlhoiwa gore o bo o ye go swa, o tswe mo khanseleng o ntse

o tlhoilwe. Fa o ka kweishina fela o ba tla go itse gore nnaare golo fa go tsamaya jang,

mo ditlhophong tse di tlang ga o ka ke wa boela mo komiting eo, ba tlaa bo ba

khampheina badiredi, full time, gore o ntshiwe just because one o botsa gore go tsamaile

jang gore motho yo a ye go fiwa tendara e. Jaanong sengwe le sengwe se se tlang ke gore

o se amogele, ga o sa se amogele jaanong o ya go kopana le mathata. Makhanselara a

motlhofo a ya go khonariwa gore o ntshiwe mo bordeng eo ga o a siama.

Potso ke gore why go tshwanetse gore go nne jalo ga go sena boferefere, why? Ga e le
gore go na le transparency why o se ka ke wa botsa potso o sosologile mo komiting wa

botsa gore ba go bolelele ba go tlhalosetse gore ba tsile jang ko that recommendation,

why? Go raya gore sengwenyana se teng, sengwenyana se teng se se teng foo. Mme ke

bone ba go tweng ga ba tlogelelwe jaanong ba dire go rata ga bone. Re na le mathata. Ga

re bue ka badiredi botlhe, go na le badiredi ba bangwe ba e leng gore ba honest ba ba

kgonang go re gakolola re le Makhanselara ba re gakolola ba re o bona tendara e e

sekasekeng thata go na le a sleeping partner.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gatwe silent partner.

MR MORUTI: Nnyaa rona re ba bitsa jalo ko Khanseleng yo wa silent ga re mmue nna

ra re sleeping partner. I am sure it is just one way or the other. Mme se re se buang ke

gore ba a re bolelela, kana ga se gore badiredi botlhe ba corrupt gona le ba bangwe ba e

leng gore ba siame ke bone ba tlaa tlang mo go rona ba re raya ba re tendara e o e bonang

e e na le matsokabele a teng. Jaanong go go supegetsa gore jone bodiredi jwa rona ga se

jotlhe bo bo tlhapileng.

Jaanong ka kitso yone e re e fiwang ke ba bangwe ba ba sa rateng go senyetsa setshaba e

re fa re e dirisa rona ba e leng gore ga o oswa fela re a botsa, kana ga o tlhoilwe o

tlhoilwe ga go molato. Motho yo a ntlhoileng ga se ene yo o ntirileng nna ke dirilwe ke

Modimo go felela foo.

Rona re tla ka dipotso fela gore re ye go bona boammaruri fa bo leng teng. And for that

matter, go dira dilo worse re tsaya batho ba mafatshe a re itseng gore a tletse corruption

re ba neela boikarabelo ja sengwe le sengwe. Ga bo go raya gore bana ba rona le bone

jaanong ba anywa mo go bone ka gore ga go na ope yo o sa batleng go tshela. Jaanong

Motswana go ne fa gore o tshele ke gore o bone ene motho yoo le wena o ye go
itshwaraganya le ene. Fa o re o swetse ruri. Ke boammaruri jo bo sa jelweng pheko.

Ra re a dilo tse di baakanngwe, Batswana ba se ka ba tsena mo dilong tsa bone ka bogodu

mme ba tsene mo teng straightforward ba thusiwe. Ka gore gompieno ke tsena mo teng

ke Fronta kana ke tsena mo ka ene motho yoo yo ke tla simololang re seba kwa, ke tla ka

company o ka re ke ya me mme tota e le ya badiredi ene a le kwa tlase. Ke dilo tse re di

itseng jaanong ra re dilo tse di baakanngwe fa re batla gore ba benefite mo ipusong ya

bone. Fa gotwe, a re ntshe Makhenselara ka gore gatwe ke one a e leng gore ba ipha di-

tendara mo teng. Ke batla go bua gore ga gona boammaaruri mo mafokong ao because fa

recommendation e tla mo badireding ba kgotsofetse and fa o ka e fetola o na le mathata.

O tla seka ba bo ba bolelela motho yo e leng gore ba ne ba mo neela di-loopholes tsotlhe

tsa tendara eo gore e bo e ka boelelwa. Ke ntse modulasetilo wa Finance sa le ke tsena

mo khanseleng for 15 years mme yone Finance ke yone tender board.

DR. NASHA: Ke kopa tlhaloso Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo. Nnyaa, e ga se e e ka

tlogelwang Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo le fa re sa nna mo khanseleng 25 years. Mme

boammaruri ke gore rona ka fa re e bonang ka teng kwa Local, Makhenselara le badirela

puso in some Councils go tshwana fela. Gompieno jaana fa o ka re botsa fela kwa

Ministry re na dikgang tse e leng gore khansele nngwe e ke se ka keng ke e bua ka leina

ba tswa go aba di-tendara ga ba ga tla go ngongorogelwa kwa go rona. E le gore go

buiwa gore kana yole ke small house ya ga Mokhanselara semangmang, yole ke eng sa ga

Mokhanselara semangmang, yole shopo ke ya ga Mokhanselara semangmang o e

kwadisetse ka mosadi le ngwana wa ga malomaagwe jalojalo. So really, go ntse jaana

mme fela this disease differs from Council to Council ke sone se nna ke sa batle gore re

nne e kete re tla feela jaana gore re bo re thela katse lorulo re se ka ra tloga ra bona gore
dipeba dikae.

MR MASALILA: On a point of elucidation. Ke ne ke re kana rona tse e leng gore re a di

utlwa, jaaka mokaulengwe e ne e le Mokhanselara e le Chairman wa tender board lebaka

le le kanakana. Kana go na le dipuo tse e leng gore ya re di-tendara di ise di abiwe,

mongwe a ba a tsamaya mobilising e le gore o setse a bolelelwa gore o filwe tendara. Fa

ba tsena teng kwa tender committee ba bo ba fitlhela gore e le ruri ke ene number one ba

bo ba endorsa ba ntse ba utlwa gore motho ke yole a re o filwe tendara. From there ba

simolola ba re ga go dirwe sentle. Makhanselara, tender committee e utlwile gore kana

motho yo a re o filwe tendara. Tota fa go dirwa eng ke eng, kana ke gone gore batho ba

tshaba leso. Nna ke go bolelele gore e rile ke santse ke le modulasetilo wa khansele I

decided gore ke ya go attenda diphuthego tsa tender committee le fa ke se member and fa

ba ka gana go fiwa motho, e rile a se na go ipolaya go bo gotwe ke nna ke mmolaileng.

Ke re ga a ka ke ya re a palelwa ke ditiro a fiwa tse dingwe. Ka leletswa ka bo ke re wena

yo o nteletsang go tswa kwa godimo, ka re give me that instruction in writing. A tshaba

go kwala ka bo ke re jaanong rona ga re mo neele e le gore gotwe, a semangmang a fiwe

ka re no ga a go bone, mpha that instruction in writing gore re mo neele tendara. Ra bo re

gana, ke raya gore Councillors ba na le thata e ba sa e diriseng.

MR KARIO: On a point of elucidation. May I also elucidate on this issue of Councillors

giving tenders despite the fact that they have heard rumours to the effect that somebody is

boasting about saying that they won the tender. To say that in fact, my good Council,

which hardly has any corruption Councillors heard about particular cases like this and

they decided to deny the individual a tender and they were overruled later on after

complaints by civil servants to their senior officials in Gaborone. So I think as the
Minister has put it that these things are happening both sides; they are happening on the

one side by Councillors probably as examples have been said. But civil servants are also

doing it and where Councillors are trying to stamp out these kind of practices, they are

ultimately overruled. I thank you.

MR MORUTI: Ke a leboga. Kana rraetsho Honourable Minister, rre Masalila…

MS TSHIRELETSO: On a point of elucidation, Mr Speaker. Yone kgang e e buiwang

ke Mopalamente Moruti, ke gore nna ke le mo komiting ya tender board ya re security,

jaaka ke ne ke re go se na comma (,) re ganne go neela motho. E le gore e rile re tswa mo

meeting a ba a kwalelwa letsatsi lone leo le tender board e ise e fetse e ya go tsena ka

Monday. Ya re re ganne e bile ra bo ra e busetsa kwa morago re ne re tsieditswe ke

comma, ra bo re re fa a setse a kwaletswe letsatsi leno re le mo meeting re e busetsa kwa

morago gore a se ka a neelwa. Ra kwala dikwalo ra bitsa agente wa khansele a dumalana

le rona. E rile morago ga three weeks a ba a re, kana gatwe re mo neele. Ke raya gore

mathata a mangwe a tswa gone fa, re ganne re le makhanselara. Tanki.

MR MORUTI: Ke a leboga Minister ka gore gompieno jaana ka fa rraetsho a re

bolelelang ka teng mo Palamenteng e, ke gore jaanong molao wa Local Government o

fetogile jaanong go tsewa di-rumours. Ka gore rona e rile fa re gana kabo ya security se

re neng re utlwa gotwe motho o filwe re bo re gana re kwalela Ministry wa Local

Government re re re a gana, re bo re bolelelwa gore ga re ka ke ra berekela mo di-radio

mall information. Gompieno wa re re berekele mo go yone radio mall, go utlwisa

botlhoko. Nna mabaka a e neng e re ke tlhophilwe go nna modulasetilo wa North West

Council, ba ntlhophile botlhe. Mabaka a a mpaledisitseng go nna modulasetilo go ne go

tlilwe ke Mokhanselara yo o itlhophetsweng mme mabaka a a ne a dirisiwa ke gone gore
fa monna yo a le dingalo jaana mo tender board fa re ya go mo dira modulasetilo wa

khansele gone o a go nna jang.

Honourable Skelemani o itse kgang ya me, e padile. Ke nna fela yo o neng a itlhophetswe

a tlhophilwe ke khansele yotlhe gore ke nne modulasetilo yo go padileng gore ke nne

modulasetilo ka ntata ya gone gore ke ne ke bosolotsa tsone dilo tse. Jaanong Tona a

reng? Bagaetsho, ga re batle gore re bue dilo tse dintsi, kana golo fa ke maoko fela a re a

buang. Fa lo setse lo re botsa dipotso re tla totomela ko teng because dilo tse re a di itse,

re kwaletswe dikwalo re di tshotse. Re berekile khansele e e bile re a itse gore go diragala

eng mo khanseleng. Le fa o bona o ka re re dimatla jaana re a itse gore go diragala eng.

Jaanong fa o bona mokhanselara a dominaita (dominate) di-tendara go raya gore go na le

mongwe yo motona wa modiredi yo ba tshwaraganyeng mmogo and it is a fact. Fa e le

gore go ntse jalo why le ntsha yo mongwe le tlogela ba bangwe ka ke basinyi botlhe.

Jaanong nna ke a re mogopolo wa gore le ntsha makhanselara ga o a siama e bile o tla re

diga re le puso ya ga Domkrag. Motho yo o ntshitseng mogopolo o ga a rate puso e.

Go na le batho ba ba fiwang di-tendara e e neng e buiwa ya di-briefcase people, motho o

sa itse kwa a tswang teng gotwe o filwe tendara. Golo mo go a direga le mo construction.

Fa re bua ka construction ke mathata a a menaganeng le gone tota ka fa go inspectiwang

ka teng. Fa o ka tsena mo ditseleng le dikole tsa rona le gongwe le gongwe, o tla fitlhela e

le gore if se agiwa gompieno kamoso se a wa. Mme ga go na ope yo o botsang gore why

go tshwanetse gore go nne jalo; ke corruption. Motho o tsaya pente (paint) fela a ba a

riana, inspectara a bo a tla a inspecta a ba a fetisa a re, se siame kamoso ke mathata.

Diteng kwa dikole di-pendile (pending), go ntse maragaraga. A seemo se ga se bonwe?

Mme fa konteraka ya Motswana e ka dira jalo ke gore Motswana yoo la bofelo ga a kake
a tlhola a reediwa gope fela. Ba tla kwalela dikhansele tse tsotlhe ba di bolelela gore

monna yo ga bereke sentle, le mmone le se ka la mo tsaya. Because mo dikhanseleng

tsotlhe go na le golo mo gotweng, "o berekile kae?" This question ga e a siama. Ga o ka

ke wa neela motho tendara o mo letelela gore e nne motho yo e leng gore o tlile go gweba

mo lefatsheng le o bo o mo neela konteraka. Go tswa foo o bo o re o ka mo neela tiro fela

fa a ka bereka golo gongwe, o raya a ya go bereka kae. Because what you are saying

there ke gore ga nka ke ka go neela tiro o sa bereka gope. Jaanong fa e le gore o ka se ke

o mo neele tiro o ya go itshupa kae gore o na le bokgone? Mo go rayang gore gompieno

jaana fa ke ka forma konteraka ke bo ke tendara mo di-project tsa khansele go a gotwe,

yo ga go itsiwe kwa a berekileng teng. Ba ya go botsa kwa Kweneg District le kwa gore a

motho yo o kile a bereka gope go bo gotwe nnyaa, mme fa a sa bereka gope se mo

neeleng ditiro. Jaanong ke a go di bona kae ke bo ke a go itshupa bothakga ja me kae

mme lona le mphile licence; ke discrimination.

Batho ba ba dirileng tsetla e ba e diretse go ikgakgapelela ka gore bone ba itsiwe gongwe

le gongwe gore fa ke tendara le semangmang kwa North West ba a go leba nna ka gore

ke kgonne go dira kwa Kweneng le kae le kae. Ke bone ba ba dirileng tsetla yone e go

itswalela diphatlha mme ba tlogetswe gore ba dire jalo and this is completely unfair.

Kana go raya gore dikhamphane tse di formiwang morago tse ga go na kwa di ka bonang

teng mme ke go itshwenya le go neela puso madi fela. Mme bana ba rona ba tsholwa ba

se na dikonteraka ke go ne ba simololang go di aga, potso ke gore ba a go bereka kae ka

go tsewa tsone tse di itsiweng.

Dilo tse di tshwanetse go baakanngwa, dilo tse ga se tsone tse Domkraga e di buang, ga e

rialo. Yone ya re lebelela Motswana mongwe le mongwe ka tekatekanyo. E bile re ila
kgethololo ya letso le mmala lebaibai, ga re e batle mo motheong wa rona. Jaanong

kgethololo e e tswa kae? Dilo tse di a re tshwenya, re batla gore di seka-sekwe, dilo tse re

batla gore di baakanngwe pele fa le ka re didimatsa.

E ke batlang go fetsa ka yone ke decentralisation. Go utlwisa botlhoko gore re direlwe

tshwetso ke batho ba ba mo Gaborone ba ba sa itseng se se dirafalang mo dikgaolong tsa

rona. Fa nna ke tsamaya ko saeteng ke ya go bona seemo jaaka se ntse e ya bo e le gore

se ke se buang ke se gakolola goromente … motho yo o ko Gaborone yo o sa itseng le ko

Nkarange gore go tewa kae, golo mo go utlwisa botlhoko. O bo o ipotsa gore tota motho

yo fa a ya go gana se rona re se recommendileng re itse kgaolo, o ganne ka mabaka a afe

a a bone kae? Fa go ya go inspectiwa business ya gago o le Motswana, go bo go ya go

inspectiwa business ya lekula e le fa, o bo o tsamaya o ya go bona ya gago e gannwe e e

amogetsweng e le ya lekula o tlaa tlhabiwa ke ditlhong. O tlaa fitlhela ceiling e tsholola

metsi, mme fela ka gore ke ya lekula e a amogelwa. Ya gago wena o le Motswana go tlaa

tlhotlhomisiwa go feta jaaka go tlhokafala. Monna mongwe o kile a re fa a tsamaya a ya

go batla inspector ba mo raya ba re tlaya ka 2, ka moso o a tsamaya ba re, nnyaa, tlaya ka

moso ka 2, e ne a sa itse gore 2 go tewa eng, kante go tewa puo nngwe e sele, jaanong e

ne a nna a tla ka 2 fela motho wa Modimo. Jaanong o ka fitlhela e le gore ke mathata. Fa

o ya ko ofising yame gompieno jaana, bana ba ba tletseng koo ba a compleina, bangwe ba

re re basupi gore go ne gotwe re ntshe madi gore ditender tsa rona di apruviwe. Mme ke

ba gakolola gore kana mathata ke gore fa go ya go lemogwa gore o ntshitse madi le wena

o molato, ke eng fa o ne o dumela gore o ntshe madi. Jaanong o ya go tsewa le wena o le

molato. O jelwe o tseetswe madi o lusitse tender gape o a ngongorega le wena o ya go

nna molato gape, boemo ja gore jaanong wena o thuse goromente ka bosupi, jaanong o
tsewa o nna molato. E le gore ba ne ba dumela go tla ka 2. Ke seemo se se utlwisang

botlhoko se se teng mo dikhanseleng, ra re a selo se se emisiwe ka gore ke sone selo se se

dirang gore Batswana jaanong ba seka ba simolola ba tsena mo diprojecteng tse di rileng

ka gore bone ga ba kgone seemo se se ntseng jaana, ba ba kgonang go tla ka bo 2 bone e

bo e le bone ba ba tsenang fela. Jaanong o bo o bona gore Botswana ke lefatshe la gagwe

le a tlhophang sentle mo go lone, le a le ratang mme a sa boelwe ke sepe mo go lone.

Ka mafoko a a kalo ke amogela motion o.

MR KEDIKILWE (MMADINARE): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you. I certainly

support the motion as presented, but I am sceptical. I am sceptical, Mr Speaker, because I

think again we are nibbling. We are nibbling because the issue is much broader than what

we have presented, but there is nothing wrong in it. It is addressing an aspect, which is

burning, a number of our own citizens, our own children, that have reached some of the

highest possible standards in many professions and niches and they are without a job.

There is an opportunity that we can give them and we are not able to give them that

opportunity because we are not yet ready. We are taking time and it is not the first time

that we are taking time. I have just yesterday alluded to the question relating to

devaluation of the Pula, that we had been asking since 2002 that an adjustment be made.

An adjustment was not made and we have foreseen that the longer we took the higher the

adjustment we were going to have to make and the greater the impact on the economy.

Then, of course, when that happened it meant greater social upheaval so to speak, hence

the questions keep haunting us relating to devaluation. I hope the same will not happen to

this issue relating to citizen economic empowerment. Mr Speaker, this issue is only

peripherally an economic issue, it is basically, a political issue that if we delay, we will
not be able to handle at some point. We are creating a storming of the Bastille; we are

creating amongst us, not necessarily now, but possibly in the near future, an Idi Amin

amongst us. This is a political issue. On 30th March 2001 I presented a motion in this

House that sought the establishment of an authority to implement citizen economic

empowerment and with your permission I would like to read it, Mr Speaker, and I quote.

“That in order to ensure effective implementation and co ordination of citizen economic

empowerment policies, this Honourable House resolves that an institutional monitoring

authority be established with full statutory powers”. This motion was accepted by this

Honourable House …

MR MABILETSA: Point of clarification. The clarification I am seeking from you is that

you said 30th March; I did not hear the year.

MR KEDIKILWE: Mr Speaker, the year was 2001. Of course, at the end of that

accepted motion, part of my thesis then, which agrees with what the Honourable Sebetela

has put before this Honourable House related to a team that I thought, given the

complexity, the depth and the width of the problem the institutional arrangement that I

had in mind could not be the full answer that we required. As I said then a team of

seasoned men and women of this country, who would pull together all of the things that

we have talked about, possibly since or even before independence. I shall be quoting to

you in a moment what the internal self- government did in order to address this particular

issue. Therefore, let me quote to you what agrees with the motion before us relating to

training, relating to a study. He mentioned the word „study‟ so that the ease with which

training would be done, the capacitation would be done, should be a matter that is

focussed and that an analysis be made as to the capacities of those who would be enabled
to ensure that citizen economic empowerment takes place in this country. My thesis, then,

if I may paraphrase it, Mr Speaker, and then I said in my view, and I quote. Now I am

away from paraphrasing, I am going to be quoting, because I thought paraphrasing would

not do the trick. It said, Mr Speaker, I quote, “In my view it is opportune for Botswana to

create an institution akin in function to the Ombudsman. Botswana needs a legally

empowered watchdog of citizen economic empowerment. The more we talk, the more

citizen empowerment will not take us anywhere except ultimately to create a breed akin

to an Idi Amin amongst us.”

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, I am advised that we do not form

a quorum and if that is the case it means the House is out of order. We have 15 minutes to

reconvene those Members who are not in. In the absence of doing that, the Speaker has

no choice but to adjourn the debate, so says the Standing Orders.

I think the forum has been reinstated.

MR KEDIKILWE: I would like to thank you, Mr Speaker. I further went on to say by

way of a thesis and in agreeing with the aspects that the Honourable Sebetela has put

before this Honourable House. That the authority that I was calling for and its

architecture in order to determine a way forward. That, in my view, what was required

was a systematic, professional, cool-headed and balanced approach and I thought then

and I still think now, that the first step was either to convene a conference such as we had

on 5th July 1999 on citizen economic empowerment. It was held in Gaborone, or as I said

then put together and I quote, “A team probably of no more than 10 seasoned citizens or

sons and daughters of this country in order to determine the type of vehicle and the type

of architecture that will be suitable for our development.” I also said obviously there were
hurdles, and that but instead of any possible hurdles and I made reference to fronting and

I made reference to what was then referred to as xenophobia and the attitude of our own

people and those I shall make reference to in my deliberation. I also said we ought to

borrow from other countries and I then was waving a document from Namibia called the

Affirmative Action Employment Act of 1998. The reason I was waving that document

was that my colleagues, including the Honourable Minister of Finance and Development

Planning, were sceptical about the authority, the legal authority that I had in mind. Then I

was also waving a document from the Republic of South Africa, which I then said it

might help. I also mentioned Malaysia, Singapore, Mauritius and possibly India in case

we were looking for areas of benchmarking. Therefore, that is the breadth and depth of

the issue at stake, the political issue at stake and that if we keep nibbling, as I think we

are, there will come a time when we will rue the day that we delayed and nibbled and

mumbled the way we do. My thesis, before I even take you through memory lane, is that

the issue requires political clout that the Honourable Minister of Finance and

Development Planning does not have. Honourable Speaker, I am not contributing ad

hominem, I am not talking about the current Minister of Finance and Development

Planning or anybody else, I am talking about the institution, the office.

In my view, the issue at stake, the superintendence of the monitoring, mentoring,

direction and the directives to be given, to my mind require someone of no less political

clout than the Vice President of this country or even the President himself, relating to the

council that I shall propose. Again with respect to those positions, I am not speaking ad

hominem. I have no reason to do that. I am talking about the institution. Some of the time

that is spent with respect to institutions that we have, to my mind they are a waste of time
as well as the HLCC. It is a waste of time, particularly for the Head of State. In fact,

some of the participants there said they like the HLCC because they enjoy participation,

because in the process they bask in the glory and the aura of the Presidency. Listen to

that. In other words we are playing marbles whilst Rome is on fire. That will not take us

anywhere. We are simply doing that which will be to our detriment before too long.

Mr Speaker, the reason why I say this issue is highly political and I will make one or two

quotations to buttress my own argument. The details that we are talking about are

important, but they will not take us anywhere because these points we have made before.

On the 8th March 1966, archival memory lane, the Botswana Government then, under

internal self government, commissioned a localisation and training commission to

demonstrate to you that in fact some efforts have been made before. We should neither be

despondent on this particular issue or be too complacent because something has been

done as early as 1966, with respect to training and commission. That commission was

headed by a certain Mr T. C. Luke, and he wrote at page 56 and I quote Mr Speaker with

your permission: “Independence becomes a farce, either because:

there is a breakdown in government or services (the Congo) or

non-nationals still dominate policy making jobs or still preponderate overall leading to

political unrest (e.g. Malawi) which is exactly what any government will try to avoid.”

This Mr Speaker is a highly political potato in our hands. Unless ultimately we design our

institutions such that we make sure that our own country has a stake. Not simply throw

money at them as we do through CEDA. CEDA is a mere nimble as far as I am

concerned. It does not relate to the overall co-ordination and monitoring with statutory

powers that I had in mind. The institution of the Ministry of Finance in this case really
has no political clout over other ministries. It cannot give directives of the type that the

motion that we have before us is asking for, to say, I am giving a directive in the same

way as Honourable Sebetela quoted to us that the President of the United States in fact

gives directives. We need that kind of clout. Unless and until we get that kind of clout

that will give directives, that will ensure that ultimately what we seek to achieve in fact

we achieve, we are running into problems. We are running into very serious danger in

this country. I do not quite appreciate why if we can make complicated legislation such as

the recent one on radiation. I do not quite understand why we cannot make similar

legislation relating to citizen economic empowerment.

In 1982, we produced this report, Report on Presidential Commission on Economic

Opportunities, almost more than 24 years to the day, from May 1982. Let me take you

through the terms of reference, just to demonstrate that we have been worrying. This

government has been worrying about the situation relating to participation by Batswana

in the economic affairs of their own country, and benefiting from that situation and

ensuring that not only do we…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: And we are still doing that today.

MR KEDIKILWE: Yes that is why I am saying we talk and talk and talk. So, let me

find the terms of reference relating to this particular Commission that was chaired by my

former teacher, the late Honourable P. S. Mmusi. These were the terms of reference and

Honourable Members I crave your indulgence. It will be worthwhile even if we discussed

this particular subject. I do not mind, for the next month or so because, until and unless

the
Executive, including this very Parliament itself through the Assurances Committee or

even the Finance and Economic Committee we do something positive, we will not have

come anywhere near what Batswana would have thought they got independence for. It is

as basic as that, now, the terms of reference of the 1982 Commission. The Commission

will assess the effectiveness of existing policies in promoting the growth of employment

opportunities for citizens and in particular will review:

the progress made to date in all areas of citizen participation in economic development in

Botswana, with special reference to…

MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Member, I see some Members do not seem

to be attentive, as if what is being said is of no consequence to them. Shall we respect the

dignity of our Chamber please. Stay where you are supposed to stay. If you have a

communication to send over, we have our Clerks here who can help you do that. Do not

turn Parliament into another meeting place.

MR KEDIKILWE: Yes Mr Speaker, I am not surprised. I have just said we are going to

rue the day that we play marbles whilst Rome was on fire. I was quoting the terms of

reference of the 1982 Commission.

The progress made to date in all areas of citizen participation in economic development

in Botswana, with special reference to:

opportunities for employment and self employment and the extent of training,

advancement and promotion achieved by citizen employees,

acquisition of business, entrepreneurial and technical skills by Batswana (again,

Honourable Sebetela‟s motion),
ownership of economic assets such as land, buildings and business enterprises and access

to credit facilities by citizens.

        1(b)    Existing laws, regulations and administrative practices of government and

                assess the extent to which they promote or hinder the most desirable

                         contributions by both citizens and non- citizens to overall

                economic development in Botswana.

                1(c)     The development incentives available to investors and assess the

                extent to which they promote investment by both citizens and non-

                citizens.

                1(d)     The desirability of otherwise of permitting public officers to

                participate in business.

In light of its findings and in light of the relevant experience of other countries

recommend such changes in policy, legislation, and I underline legislation, regulations or

administrative practices as may seem appropriate.

        (a)     Promote maximum benefits for economic development for all Batswana.

                (b)      Ensure that investors are continued into the achievement of

                Botswana‟s standing objectives.

They were to submit a report on its findings and recommendations by the 31st May 1986.

That is that particular one Mr Speaker. Here runs the legend. I have made reference to

xenophobia or potential fear of foreign investors that citizen economic empowerment,

particularly if legislated, would scare them away. My thesis is that, any foreign investor

or domestic investor who does not appreciate that citizen economic empowerment is in

fact an insurance policy for them, any one who does not appreciate that must be a fool.
Because if Batswana were to have a meaningful stake in the economy, that in itself is a

insurance to the effect that they themselves would not want to spoil the spoils. So, the

question of xenophobia should not arise. Anyone who has a reasonable investment in this

country should have in the back of their mind, the concept of enlightened self interest

because the more of us have a stake, the more we should have a protection of that stake.

But without a stake, you only need what the late Honourable Kwele golo a go letseng

motho wa ga etsho, a re, “in a situation like that, which in fact is bottled up, you only

need a small needle in order to prick the balloon of pomposity.” That was Honourable

Kwele. So, I dismiss outright the question that when we make this point, there is any

grain of xenophobia in our view.

There was reference, I believe it must have been Honourable Sebetela, reference to Mr

Cypionka, the fellow that we seem to be floating around to say he can help. I am sure he

can float about, he might be able to help. The Chief Advisor I am told says the citizen

schemes may be a hindrance or countervail the progress that we might achieve as a

nation. I think he is out of his depth, quite honestly, completely out of his depth. It is

unfortunate and ironic that he is supposed to be our Chief Advisor.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Who is that?

MR KEDIKILWE: I am told a fellow by the name of Cypionka. In other words he says

what we have achieved so far through the various schemes, no less than 54 of them,

excluding bo CEDA and the latest that I shall take you through. Honourable Members,

bafowetho, le khokhe moya because I have barely started.

There are several schemes that this good BDP government has taken us through.

Unfortunately, the implementation so far has left quite a bit to be desired, but something
has been done. In other words, we should progress beyond what we have done so far. We

have made some good progress, but now we must buttress what we have been able to put

together so that we are able to achieve or come a little closer to the objectives.

In his foreword to the National Development Plan 1996/81, when we talk about

institutions, at page 13 when opening the BDP Conference there, I quote, “Increase

participation by Batswana in industrial as well as commercial enterprises, we will

continue to be one of the government‟s major objectives during the plan period in that

way can a greater part of the country‟s output accrue to them (them meaning Batswana)”

So the political will has always been there. On the 5th of July 1999, the current President

and dear colleague, in opening the

National Conference on Citizen Economic Empowerment, His Excellency the President,

Mr Festus Mogae, defined citizen economic empowerment as a set of policies and of

course I would like to make reference to page 8 of that report, which I have also have by

the way. But he further went on to say, “Economic Empowerment is a set of policies or

programmes designed to benefit a broad segment of society and enable Batswana to

participate meaningfully in every aspect of our country. In short Batswana should be in

the driving seat of the country‟s socio-economic transformation and not the passive and

bemused spectators.” So there is the political will. But my thesis and I posit that in spite

of the political will unless there is a legal authority that will ensure…

MR MOKGWATHI: Point of clarification. Ke a leboga, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. Ke a leboga, Honourable Member. Sorry, I missed out on that report, ke ne

ke re, gongwe o ka boelela gore wa re ke efe e o neng o nopola mo go yone.

MR KEDIKILWE: Honourable Member, I believe it is the report on Citizen Economic
Empowerment relating to what the President has just said. All right, let me give you a bit

of background. It refers to the conference that was held in July 1999 and that conference

was called the National Conference on Citizen Economic Empowerment. The

background to that was that previous to that there had been the usual Francistown

Conference at which the subject matter was citizen economic empowerment. There was a

lot of fighting then, not physical, but verbal fighting. I remember someone being told to

go to the toilet and he had not indicated that he wanted to go to the toilet. But the heat of

the discussion had reached that level and without being pedantic at the end of it all I then

said, why do we not convene a National Conference on Citizen Economic Empowerment

so that we define the parameters that hence the conference on the 5th July 1999 and hence

the words that His Excellency the President used that it is not a good idea that Batswana

merely become bemused spectators.

Our people have also articulated these issues. When I said we are dealing with a political

problem not necessarily an economic problem, in my presentation I also quoted the

Manual

Workers Union song and I quote, “Re bereka ka boima, re dira khumo ya Botswana, re

sa e direle go e ja, ke kgatelelo”.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: “Re swela mo khumanegong”.

MR KEDIKILWE: “Re swela mo khumanegong”. So these are words that should not be

taken lightly and they are talking about citizen economic empowerment which is a

universal phenomenon in any country, but we so far seem to be shy and my position is

that we need a legal authority to pull together all these bits and pieces so that we stop
nibbling and in the process we need the proper level of political clout in order to achieve

that object.

Mr Speaker, if I may proceed and I have said CEDA really is a move in the right

direction. But like the aspects that Honourable Sebetela‟s motion is addressing, it is a

mere aspect and an aspect is an aspect. It is not an overall measure for driving the greater

vehicle of citizen economic empowerment. CEDA is similarly limited. Let me quote the

narrow mandate of CEDA. That mandate is defined as and I quote, “the management and

monitoring of some government financial and technical assistance schemes to Batswana

wishing to expand business.” And then of course there are other terms of reference

relating to that. It is good, but narrow. It lacks the overall; it lacks the bigger picture; it

lacks what we must ultimately achieve.

In order to appreciate the complexity of this issue let me run through for you what this

good government has previously attempted to do. I shall merely mention them; I shall not

go into the details of what was done, the Land Control Act and the Transfer Duty for

transferring that land from citizens to non-citizens. The rate of transfer duty in order to

assist Batswana such that foreigners did not grab all the land, the rate of duty for

Batswana as I recall, I think it was 10 percent. But for expatriates it was 30 percent in

order to ensure that non-citizens had it a little more difficult for them to acquire that land.

That is a measure of citizen economic empowerment. So we must not be despondent in

thinking that nothing has been done. A lot has been done. There was the Rural Bus

Subsidy Scheme where on certain roads the operators of those particular buses on those

particular routes, which were then not well developed or poor, were given a Rural Bus

Subsidy Scheme. There was a Bull Subsidy Scheme where bulls that were quite
expensive were bought at a subsidised price. There was a borehole Maintenance Subsidy

Scheme; of course there still is free cattle vaccines like quarter evil, anthrax contagious

abortion and then of course the localisation training commissions. At that time the

Botswana Civil Service Association of which then I was an executive member, also

brought pressure to bear on the localisation programme. In fact our meetings of the

Central Joint Staff Consultative Council, some of the expatriate Permanent Secretaries

ultimately found the kitchen hot and therefore they left. There were of course and there

are still LAC requisites. The LAC requisites of course, Batswana buying those requisites

at cost when in fact we know that they were much more expensive than that. So that was

one of the attempts to assist Batswana, ultimately Local Government tax was abolished.

The Tax Legislation on whose committee the Honourable Minister of Finance and

Development Planning also worked together with the current President, this was the

Income Tax Law of 1973 and we worked on that. That law kept being amended as indeed

we did this financial year where the threshold was raised from P20, 000 to P25, 000. Of

course we are talking about P30, 000, that is a way of assisting Batswana through the

disposable income arrangement. That is what was done.

In order to promote savings with respect to the Botswana Building Society (BBS)

arrangements such as the Indefinite Period; Paid Up Shares are not taxable; similarly the

Bank of Botswana Savings Certificates are not taxable.

On matters relating to tax, on severance pay, rather than taxing the whole sum as was

received, it was cascaded three years back in order to ease the burden on the recipient.

These are attempts to give citizens some form of leverage, some form of power. Similarly

portions of the gratuity were not taxed. Questions relating to Public Officers‟ Mortgage
Pensions Fund where previously the denominator, which among other things apart from

the number of years worked was 720, lately the denominator is 450. This is why Public

Officers now are able to even on retirement, some of them would depending on the salary

levels at the point of retirement and how long they had been on that scale and the number

of years that they had worked in the Public Service. Some of them are on possibly P16,

000 a month or even better. I have not done any research on that. I was talking to one of

the senior ones not so long ago, he said the way the pension arrangement is right now I

do not want to tell my wife about it because she might begin to have ideas but I am likely

to get almost P900, 000 or possibly a P1 million. That kind of arrangement, so something

has been done and something is being done.

There was the water development scheme, which was also very progressive. Those that

had a low number of cattle as determined then they received a 60 per cent subsidy, whilst

those that were supposed to be better off only received a 40 per cent subsidy. There is

Self Help Housing Agency (SHHA) that is ongoing, that was part of the scheme, there

was the tenant purchase scheme, and then of course the housing mortgage scheme. There

was Financial Assistance Policy (FAP), so something has been done. It may have had its

weaknesses but something was done and some Batswana benefited, so we should not

speak as if there were no efforts that were made. I am not saying people are saying no

efforts have been made, we are merely saying let us make a meaningful improvement.

The time has now come, the time is now, where particularly now given the environment

of such educated Batswana. Have I quoted to you one of my own close relatives, and I

know others also have similar problems. One of my own relatives, very fairly close, a

year ago graduated from the University of Botswana (UB) with our Degree on
Environment with Second Class- First Division; 2I, they are roaming the streets. There

was Botswana Enterprises Development Union (BEDU), you remember BEDU, where

some Batswana, including one of the companies, I think it is BOSWE today, it is a

graduate of BEDU. There was AE10, The Brigades, Services to Livestock Owners in

Communal Areas (SLOGA), Arable Land Development Programme (ALDEP), et cetera.

Then the introduction of the Construction Industry Trust Fund (CITF) where literally you

got anyone who was willing and they had a bit of grey matter to be able to put a brick

properly in a straight manner on top of another. They were roped in, in order to help in

industry.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O seka wa lebala AI.

MR KEDIKILWE: I have just mentioned AE10, and then of course Artificial

Insemination (AI).

And then I have just made reference to the Construction Industry Trust Fund. Then the

Botswana Training Authority (BTA) that I keep making so much noise and asking

questions about in this House. There was the Selebi-Phikwe Regional Development

Programme of 1988, it had its faults and weaknesses, so some effort has been done. We

have had the Local Preference Scheme (LPS) we have had the Integrated Field Services

Scheme (IFSS). By the way I must mention that the more we delay with respect to the

introduction of Local Enterprise Authority (LEA), Honourable Minister of Trade and

Industry, the more the officers that are on Integrated Field Services the more they enjoy a

government sinecure. The government sinecure merely refers to a situation whereby

someone has a job for which they are paid but there are no duties. This is a serious

development.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gatwe government what?

MR KEDIKILWE: But we are crossing those bridges as we come to them.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Lefoko le le lengwe fela?

MR KEDIKILWE: Yes.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Laughter!

MR KEDIKILWE: Rural Industries Promotion (RIP) was intended to help Batswana,

that was articulated at page 166 of National Development Plan (NDP) 7. There was the

question relating to the Trade and Liquor Act of 1986 where certain businesses were

reserved for Batswana and our great friend Cypionka seems to be against that. I am not so

sure whether he said that but he has been quoted as saying that the reserved programmes

for Batswana are going counter to the development of this country, and I am saying he is

out of his depth. So my dear colleagues and countrymen this good government has done

something for us, we also have not taken up, we have not been possibly quite up to the

task ourselves.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O seka wa lebala Accelerated Rain-fed Arable

Programme (ARAP).

MR KEDIKILWE: I have mentioned ARAP already.

What was reserved for Batswana; general dealers, fresh produce, filling stations, bottle

stores, bars and the rest. There was also a scheme, I do not know whether it still exists but

I still have documents of that scheme; the Citizen Building Contractors and Road

Builders Programme (CBCRB). That was articulated on the 15th of August 1988.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: (Inaudible)… eo go tswa fa o bo o ya to edit it o bo o e re

neela rona.
MR KEDIKILWE: I beg your pardon Mr Speaker, I am a bit off-colour and seemy this

morning in terms of the little cold that I have.

Mr Speaker, so that is what has been done. There was instrument number four of 1989

relating to Industrial Development Regulations of 1989, Regulation 9, mapped out the

types of manufacturing enterprises reserved for Batswana and citizens or companies

wholly owned by Botswana citizens, relating to; school uniforms burglar bars, furniture,

protective clothing, the milling of sorghum and baking of bread, and of course

manufacture of cement. Then there was the uniforms. P50 million scheme- Citizen

Contractors Fund, otherwise known as The Bailout Scheme. We were then in trouble,

even the then President was accused of assisting his own relatives and the lot, but

something has been done. So I have said right from the outset that we must balance this

possible despondency against …(interruption)….

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O seka wa lebala dipolase tsa bo-Ncojane.

MR KEDIKILWE: Ee, I was not even going to mention those.

The Remote Area Dweller Development Programme (RADP), the Small, Medium and

Micro Enterprises (SMME) programme, the Credit Guarantee Scheme, et cetera, and

lately of course we are talking about Old Age Pensions and the rest of them. You

remember the Botswana Meat Commission (BMC) Heifer Scheme?

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Yes.

MR KEDIKILWE: When we ourselves le rona Batswana when we say we probably

have not taken up advantage of all those schemes.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: The food subsidy schemes.

MR KEDIKILWE: I have mentioned that already.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke gone a tlang.

MR KEDIKILWE: Oh, sorry Sir.

That I mentioned right from the beginning.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le eo ya BMC kana e ne e thusa le ba boramane.

MR KEDIKILWE: Ee.

MRS VENSON MOITOI: On a point of order Mr Speaker. Ke sa go ruti tsamaiso

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke ne ke re ke botse gore bo-rre ba ba boborang

ba ba bangwe e bile ba etla ba porompeta yo o buang bone di-Standing Order tsa Ntlo e

di ba dikologa jang mong wa me, bogolo thata Motlotlegi Kwelagobe.

MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Members, the Standing Orders are very clear, that

when a Member is debating or holding the floor the rest of the other Members shall

remain and listen. If Members do not do that they obviously are interrupting the

proceedings of the House. They know, especially the Honourable Member you have

referred to, is the most senior and most experienced Member of this House, so he knows.

MR KEDIKILWE: Mr Speaker, the sentence that I did not finish because Honourable

Members said something that distracted my attention was the need to balance

despondency against complacency. I am saying despondency because some may feel

nothing has been done, and in fact I believe Honourable Saleshando made reference to

that. Part of the reason I am going through this elaborate demonstration and

remonstration, is because of that reference. That something of quite some magnitude has

been done, but because of that we should not be complacent, but those that are not aware

of what has been done or bear some derision because they would like to dismiss what has

been done of course they will be despondent, and I am saying we must balance
despondency against complacency. There is still a lot that has to be done. As I said a little

while ago, there is no room for complacency, there is no room for playing marbles when

Rome is on fire, and I say; Rome is on fire. So that is that by way of our background. I

have covered the matter relating to xenophobia and I have dismissed that, and I have said

any investor; domestic or foreign, who does not appreciate citizen economic

empowerment as an insurance assurance scheme for them then I pardon my French then

they must be a fool.

I would now like to make reference to fronting. Yes I believe some people do it because

is the easier route out, it is a shot in the dark. But the matter has some antidote with

respect to citizen economic empowerment, because when fronting flowers, when it fronts

it goes against the spirit of the motion before this Honourable House moved by the

Honourable Member for Palapye. It means even if they have skills they will not use any

skills, they will not make any effort, they would simply be waiting to receive the spoils of

a spoilt adventure through fronting. When someone says they like fronting yes as I say it

is the easier route, but in fact fronting is a disempowerment programme for Batswana, it

would not get us anyway. In fact it makes us slaves in our own country; mental slaves,

intellectual slaves, commercial slaves, something that is an imposition upon us by

ourselves. There may very well be reasons for it; it is the easier road. In my thesis I said

fronting is as complex as it is sly and as it is elusive, but it must be handled head on. The

motion before this Honourable House in fact says exactly that, that we must tool our

country men, particularly those that have the training, and ensure that they have the skills

and utilise those skills and we assist them to utilise those skills so that the sky is the limit

for the purposes of their own development, for the purposes of acquiring an economic
base in this country an insurance scheme for political stability, an insurance scheme for

self worth, because as I said in my thesis then in Setswana, lehuma le bone bo-fronting le

tlhotlha botho mo mothong.

It is a distillation process possibly unwittingly undertaken by persons or individuals

concerned themselves. We must fight that ourselves. With respect to that issue, I had the

honour to introduce His Excellency the President in 1999 for the purposes of the National

Conference on Citizen Economic Empowerment. I did not spare us either. One of the

things that we may deny in this country re le Batswana but it is true, ke lefufa la

Setswana.

MR MOKGWATHI: Ke kopa tlhaloso Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR SPEAKER: A Rre Mokgwathi o kopa tlhaloso ka lefufa la Setswana?

MR MOKGWATHI: Ke kopa tlhaloso ka se a neng a se bua pele ga foo sa gore lehuma

le tlhotlha botho mo mothong. Ke ne ke re gongwe o ka tlhalosa mo teng gore lehuma le

tlhotlha botho mo mothong ka tsela e fe because I am looking at it from the point of view

ya gore gongwe lehuma as a determinant le na le tsela e le ka fedisiwang ka yone gore le

se ka la influensa go tlhotlha botho. Ke kopa gore a e tlhalose ka botlalo ke e utlwisise

sentle.

MR KEDIKILWE: Mr Speaker, I have said exactly that. In other words, I am saying

these various schemes that I have just enumerated perhaps in a laborious and boring

manner is simply to say how government has made an attempt to get us out of that

situation because when one does not command their own means and resources, ultimately

they pander to the whims of someone else. They simply answer, when that individual

says jump up, they say how high. But if they are equipped, when someone says jump up,
they will say but why, because they have their own self-worth, ga ba a tlhotlhwa botho

jwa bone, le boleng jwa bone ga ba a bo tlhotlhwa ke lehuma. That is the point.

I have made reference to lefufa la Setswana. It is not the beginning, we have always had

it. There was a time when go ne go a tle go twe a di mo lekane, dikgomo. When someone

has made some form of progress, when they have pulled up themselves through their own

boot straps, gatwe o lebetse kwa ga mmaagwe go jewa moroko. My dear colleagues and

fellow citizens, I think we have our own house to clean. It is an effort that has to be made

and made seriously because blaming someone else, that also will not take us very far. Yet

we have had some encouragements through our own idiomatic expressions tsa rona tsa

Batswana. Bagolo ba re sosoetsa, there was need to do that to point out the way that, as

Honourable Sebetela keeps saying, eyeball to eyeball. They have made us, through idiom,

aware of what we need to do. On page 18 of my thesis I made reference to those so that

the citizen economic empowerment can only be fuelled by ourselves if we remove the

hurdles. But having removed the hurdles, we must do it ourselves and the wisdom of

idiom and vision I quoted then on Friday 30th March 2001. The idiom I said says,

ngwanaka, o tlaa ja masepa a balekane ba gago fa o sa tlhwaafale. That is what I meant.

Another one says, ngwanaka, phokoje go tshela yo o dithetsenyana. I often quote gore

when we were at St Josephs College and we were from various parts of this country, that

is why I still love boarding schools, some of them in attempting to speak some Kalanga

or Sekgalagadi actually abused themselves. There were others who were not quite

familiar with Setswana either and when they were excited by the idiom phokoje go tshela

yo o dithetsenyana, they said something very close to that but not quite that. So, that is

idiom. I also made a quotation that it is not as if we do not have idiomatic wisdom. Some
idioms are: Mohuhutso go jewa wa phatla wa kgodukgotshwana ga o jewe. Ngwanaka,

ga go na kgomo ya boroko. Moremogolo go betlwa wa taola wa motho o a ipetla. There

are many of them. I also made reference to the one that says, part of it I invented myself,

bojosi bo jesa tlhako le mangengana, lehuma le lone mme le jesa tlhako le mangengana.

Mr Speaker, I think we have made some effort with respect to Part 8 of the reserved and

preferential treatment relating to the law on the procurement scheme, what was

previously known as the Central Tender Board. The institution that I have in mind that I

say should be a statutory institution with legal powers to coordinate all of these

programmes whose conceptualisation I cannot claim to have finalised and refined. There

is a tangency between my perception and the Honourable Sebetela whose motion we are

debating now because it relates to a study. He made reference to a study to see the

capacities and the capabilities of our individual citizens, what they can do and what they

cannot do so that we stop what he calls a “blind date!”

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Laughter! Laughter!

MR KEDIKILWE: Hence my reference to a 10-member team that will pull all these

institutions together or all these references to the 1966 Luke report, the 1982 Economic

Opportunities Report, the 1999 report, the National Development Plans since then,

including the Transitional Social and Economic Development Plan. Having distilled all of

that and say but this is 2006, possibly 2007, where are we? All of the things that we have

said, how far have we succeeded? Where are we failing? Why are we failing? Why must

we succeed? What can be done? We must benchmark with other countries and I have

made reference, some of the documents I have told you I have, including the Act from

Namibia and the documents from the Republic of South Africa. I am not so sure where,
but somewhere in the rubble that I call my library, those documents exist. The time is

now when we have created our own situation through the training programme and

programmes that we have in place. We cannot regret having done that, we cannot regret

having trained some of our children to the highest possible level that they can compete

with any in the world. Whilst on the one hand we must be proud that we are able to

produce them and they are beginning to drift away from this country because for them

opportunity is limited. On the one hand we must also be proud that we are able to

produce to that level belying the assertion that our education system is poor by those that

have benefited from that system. On the other hand, our own children who have that

capacity cannot find opportunity in this country sufficiently, that we must address very

seriously. So, that is the essence of Honourable Sebetela‟s motion, which I said I support.

But I am not convinced that, that is the answer because I think it is just one of the nibbles

just as I think CEDA is a nibble and the PPADB. I have here a copy of that law,

paragraph 8 and also Part 11, Honourable Monwela would say Part X-I because it is in

Roman numerals. I am making reference to PPADB, that it is also a nibble because it

does not cover the overall monitoring and implementation that I referred to in my motion

that I presented on the 30th March 2001 which referred to effective implementation and

co-ordination of citizen empowerment policies. We need an institution that is buttressed

by political clout so that directives can be given. It must also be assisted by a council

whose terms of reference should derive from Part 8 of the reserved and preferential

treatment envisaged schemes of PPADB, because we are looking for legislation that will

ensure that we achieve what we have articulated. We want to achieve so that in the words

of His Excellency the President, we stop to be bemused spectators of economic
developments in this country. One of them for example, says, that is on Part 8 of the

PPADB Act under Section 67 and I quote Mr Speaker with your permission, “In order to

promote the empowerment of citizen contractors, all citizen contractors shall in relation

to their respective classification be treated fairly and equitably in respect of all

procurement and disposal activities. That is the „A‟ part. The „B‟ part says, „There shall

be an equitable balance in the distribution of such activities within and across grades and

codes of such contractors where applicable.” Here is the crunch in respect of Honourable

Sebetela‟s motion. The „C‟ part states, “The extent of reservation or preference extended

to them shall be proportional to their assessed capacities to fully comply with the

applicable specifications, specific instructions and conditions in the relevant bidding

packages.” It goes on and on. In other words the point I am making is that, the

observation that there may not be need for legislation that I dismiss because partly we

have done it. If we were to agree and implement Honourable Sebetela‟s observation

relating to a study because we are not saying we should go into this thing blindfolded.

We must look before we leap as the expression goes. Honourable Sebetela was right a

while ago in responding through a supplementary question when the Honourable

Assistant Minister of Finance and Development Planning said there were no registration

requirements because they are in the law. Given the political will that I say exists,

legislation can be put together and should be put together so that we achieve a measure,

and a great measure of citizen economic empowerment otherwise we will run into

difficulties. As I say, Rome is on fire. There is reference to an Advisory Committee on

Public Procurement and Asset Disposal and that Committee is supposed to advise the

Minister. I think that is a potential waste I can appreciate why we accepted that. I would
have thought we should raise the political clout of that Committee and possibly call it a

council with legislation that will have been enacted to determine and articulate how

citizen economic empowerment ought to be handled. The empowerment must also have

the claw and the clout, political such that directives can be given through that authority

that is given the council to be able to give guidance. In other words, in my possibly

muddled conceptualisation I would imagine, at the top, an authority that I have

mentioned in my motion that would ensure effect implementation and co-ordination of

citizen economic empowerment policies so that that institution is a monitoring authority

and will have full statutory powers. In other words, it would superintend the lives of

Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA), the Ministries, and the statutory

bodies as Honourable Sebetela is saying. It will superintend the operations with respect to

citizen economic empowerment. But the teams that Honourable Sebetela and I are

suggesting would refine and define all of them so that the institutional arrangements fall

in place. But I am saying then on the side or above that will be a Council, which would

act as a reference point for the authority, that Council being headed at the highest

possible political level. That council would then be empowered to give directives so that

there will be no Minister that can say but we have no arrangement for making a

distinction for the purposes of procurement; we do not make a distinction between

citizens, non-citizens in our procurement arrangement. That council would have powers

and my assumption here is, it would possibly be chaired by the President himself to give

directives in the same way as we gathered from Honourable Sebetela that President Bush

of the United States in fact gives directives. I am not so sure that our President with all

the powers of the executive does have those powers, he probably does. If he does, why
does he not use them? So Mr Speaker, that is my attempt once again at the question

relating to citizen economic empowerment.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …inaudible…

MR KEDIKILWE: No, I have to stop at some point. But then that Mr Speaker is the

point. I was looking for something when we talk about institutions. I am looking for a bit

that the First President said with respect to institutions and institutional arrangements that

must accord with the aspirations of Batswana. I probably will not find it, but he did say

something to that effect. In other words, I am making that point because some of my

colleagues on resisting an institutional arrangement for citizen economic empowerment

did not think that there was need for legislation. The authority that I have in mind would

also superintend the privatisation programme, which I think it is a move in the right

direction. But, it has to be handled with great care particularly the first move so that

Batswana have confidence that what is being undertaken will ultimately assist the country

because if we falter right from the beginning then the necessary confidence that we need

will not be achieved.

Under the authority there are other structures because decentralisation must be

undertaken. The authority must ensure that the decentralisation that will have been done

in order to achieve citizen economic empowerment is done. At the ministerial and the

official level the ministerial Standing Committee On Project Implementation (SCOPI) I

think must be revived. Standing Committee on Projects Implementation similarly at the

official level, the official SCOPI must also be revised because these will be elements and

segments in the… I was avoiding the word concatenation but that is what I wanted to say

because it is a chain …
HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(inaudible)…

MR KEDIKILWE: Someone was asking for derivatives a while ago. The word chain ka

Seroma gatwe „catena‟ (keetane) and therefore, catena and then you chair it together „co‟

meaning together, catena; chain, but this process leading up to the authority must be

concatenated. O a di golaganya. That is the beauty of knowing the derivatives because

we have a greater understanding of what the language is all about.

My countrymen I think bosele, the PhD syndrome can only destroy us, it can only destroy

this country in the final analysis.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Can you end up with a quotation from Piet Retief?

…laughter!…

MR KEDIKILWE: By the way what did Piet Retief say? Initially I talked about the

motion being about political independence; it being more of a political issue rather than

an economic issue. The economic issue is a means to the political situation in this

country.

MR MOKGWATHI: Point of clarification. Thank you Honourable Speaker and thank

you Honourable Member. I was hoping that in the process you would be in a position to

tell us as to what the progress is regarding the implementation of the motion that you

tabled in 2001. Thank you.

MR KEDIKILWE: Mr Speaker, I am afraid there is no progress that is why I made

reference to the Assurances Committee of this Parliament. I made reference to the

Finance and Economic Committee, the High Level Consultative Council (HLCC) and to

all other institutions to say, unless we can pull them together, we can buttress them. I

even said we keep talking and talking but Rome is on fire and we shall rue the day when
we took long. I articulated how inordinate delays can cost us dearly, and in this context I

made reference to the adjustment of the relationship between the devaluation

arrangement that a good thing was delayed, ultimately the adjustments had to be big,

people noticed it. If we had acted quickly the adjustments if they had been small

devaluation would not be haunting us in the manner that it is haunting us now.

Mr Speaker, I support this motion and again I rest my case and say, but we are still

nibbling. If we continue to nibble, we shall rue the day that we continued to play marbles

whilst the Rome was burning. There I rest my case Mr Speaker.

MR MOLEBATSI (TSWAPONG SOUTH): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa

Palamente. E re ka ke sa bolo go ema mo moletelong o wa gore le nna ke beye lefoko la

me, ke bona go na le mathata re tswa kgakala re ipusa, re dirile ditiro tse dintle, tse di

lebogiwa ke mafatshe-fatshe. Mme go lebega re tsile mo seemong sa gore, tsela jaanong

o ka re e ya re timelela. Go lebega o ka re jaanong re ikanya gore batho ba ba gaufi le

rona ke bone ba ba ka dirang tiro botoka go na le rona.

                                   ADJOURNMENT

                                        MOTION

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (LT. GEN. MERAFHE): Mr Speaker, I move that this

House do no adjourn.

                               Question put and agreed to.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 1.00 p.m. until Monday the 24th July, 2006 at

2.30 p.m.
agreed to.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 1.00 p.m. until Monday the 24 th July, 2006 at

2.30 p.m.

				
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