Conference Call Minutes

							December 2007                                                     IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

                                     IEEE P802.19
                                  Wireless Coexistence

 Project     IEEE P802.19 Coexistence TAG

 Title       Conference Call Minutes
 Date        [December 13, 2007]
 Submitted
             [Stephen J. Shellhammer]                      Voice:       [(858) 658-1874]
 Source
             [Qualcomm, Inc.]                              Fax:         [(858) 651-3004]
             [5775 Morehouse Drive]                        E-mail:      [shellhammer@ieee.org]
             [San Diego, CA 92121]
 Re:         []

 Abstract    [Conference Call Minutes]



 Purpose     []

 Notice      This document has been prepared to assist the IEEE P802.19. It is offered as a basis
             for discussion and is not binding on the contributing individual(s) or organization(s). The
             material in this document is subject to change in form and content after further study. The
             contributor(s) reserve(s) the right to add, amend or withdraw material contained herein.

 Release     The contributor acknowledges and accepts that this contribution becomes the property
             of IEEE and may be made publicly available by P802.19.




Submission                                     Page 1             Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                            IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14



1 Conference Call Times


   Date                 Start Time            End Time
   November 29          11 AM Eastern Time    12 PM Eastern Time
   December 13          11 AM Eastern Time    12 PM Eastern Time
   January 3            11 AM Eastern Time    12 PM Eastern Time




2 Attendance

   Participant               Dec 13
   Douglas Chan
   Amir Ghasemi
   Mariana Goldhammer
   Shahar Hauzner               X
   Bruce Kramer
   Dan Lubar
   Shlomo Malka
   Nat Natarajan
   Ziv Nuss
   Eldad Perahia                X
   Paul Piggin                  X
   Ahmed Sadek
   Aryan Saed
   Steve Shellhammer            X
   Kathy Sohrabi
   Ken Stanwood
   Adrian Stephens
   John Sydor
   Darcy Swain
   Steve Whitesell
   Ariton Xhafa




Submission                               Page 2          Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                                      IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

3 Minutes from March 29 2007 Conference Call


3.1   Agenda

            Attendance (Steve)
            Discuss presentation 802.16h-07/38r1 from Paul Piggin
            New Business

3.2   Notes

            802.16 bandwidths of 5, 10, 20 MHz are available
            802.16 power has not yet been set, will be set to max value permitted in the band
            802.16 is a 5 ms frame duration
            The 802.11y link budget parameters need to be defined
            The 802.11 contention window parameters are given in 11e
            In simulation the bandwidth are such that there are four channels for 11y and 16h
            Assume omni-directional antenna for 11y and 16h BS and stations
            The channels were assigned by considering all the base stations (11y and 16h) and picking
             the best channel by optimizing the SIR. This is a global optimization assuming coordination
             between 11y and 16h
            It was pointed out that the 802.11 MAC is more complex than the model being used in this
             simulation
            Need to include RTS/CTS and link adaptation
            Stanford university (SUI) propagation model
            Build a document with simulation parameters assumptions (Paul to start that document,
             others to contribute)
            John and Amir will present next time



  Action Item                                                      Owner
  Start a document on simulation parameters                        Paul Piggin
  Present at the next conference call                              John Sydor and Amir Ghasemi




4 Minutes from April 12 2007 Conference Call


Submission                                       Page 3             Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                                    IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

4.1   Agenda

            Attendance (Steve)
            Discuss presentation S802.16h-07/17r1 by Amir Ghasemi and John Sydor
            Discuss document 802.19-07/11r0 by Paul Piggin
            New Business



4.2   Notes

            Amir gave the presentation on simulation of 11y/16h under three conditions
                 - Baseline
                 - LBT in 16h
                 - EQP in 16h
            Results show that if there are no hidden nodes that LBT works well and EQP work okay.
            Mariana suggested to add a fragmentation to 11y model
            Paul reviewed his document on simulation parameters. We agreed to work on this
             document so we have a common set of simulation parameters
            Eldad sent out the following two 802.16 documents
                 - 802.16.3c-01/29
                 - 802.16.3c-01/53
            Several people are unable to make the April 26 call so we may switch it to May 3
            The next available time for a face-to-face meeting will be the July Plenary session




5 Minutes from May 3 2007 Conference Call


5.1   Agenda

            Attendance (Steve)
            Interference between systems sharing spectrum in 3.65GHz (Mariana Goldhamer)
            An update on simulations including changes due to 11e amendment (Paul Piggin)
            New Business




Submission                                     Page 4            Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                                       IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

5.2   Notes

            Mariana reviewed document C80216h-07/39r1
            There was some discussion about the adjacent channel interference. It would be useful to
             review the adjacent channel interference analysis
            Paul presented document S80216h-07/50r0 which describes updates to the simulation Paul
             is developing. The updates include more accurate models of 802.11 MAC
            Action Item – See if we can obtain from Peter Ecclesine a reference on statistics of packet
             sizes
            Steve will be giving a presentation on CCA-ED in 802.11y at the Montreal meeting. He
             will distribute the presentation to members of these calls.
            Other items for the Montreal meeting would be to review some of these presentations and
             prepare any feedback for the authors




6 Minutes from May 31 2007 Conference Call


6.1   Agenda

            Attendance
            Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy
             http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf
            Presentation on Clear Channel Assessment Energy Detection (CCA-ED) in 802.11y which
             evaluates CCA-ED in 802.11y with nearby 802.16h (Steve)
            http://ieee802.org/19/pub/2007/19-07-0010-01-0000-CCA-ED-in-802.11y.ppt
            New business



6.2   Notes

            Everyone was familiar with the IEEE patent policy
            Steve presented document 802.19-07/0010r1 on CCA-ED in 802.11y
            We had a discussion on the interpretation of the 4 s in 11y. Eldad reviewed the 11y draft
             while on the call. We probably need to review it off-line and confirm the interpretation for
             CCA-ED
            Steve needs to modify the threshold so to get 90% P D at the specified signal power



Submission                                       Page 5              Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                                       IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

            Eldad suggested that Steve consider the effect of the single parity bit in 11a (hence also
             11y) on CCA-CS which is also running in parallel with CCA-ED
            Next call (June 14) we will attempt to come to an agreement on all the simulation
             parameters
            Paul suggested Steve schedule 4 hours of 802.19 meeting time in San Francisco dedicated
             to this topic of 11y/16h coexistence




7 Minutes from June 14 2007 Conference Call


7.1   Agenda

            Attendance
            Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy
             http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf
            Review simulation parameters document (Paul Piggin)
            http://ieee802.org/19/pub/2007/19-07-0011-01-0000-Parameters-for-Simulation.doc
            New business



7.2   Notes

            Everyone was familiar with the IEEE patent policy
            Paul presented document 802.19-07/11r1 on simulation parameters
            We discussed what value should be used for shadow fading
            The document on the SUI model discusses shadow fading
            It was suggested a shadow fading margin of 6 dB (90% area coverage probability assuming
             an 8 dB shadow fading standard deviation
            For the shadow fading we need to also consider the CCA sensing link and the interference
             link
                  - One approach is to pick the shadow fading value randomly between stations and
                      then keep them fixed for those locations
                  - On each experiment the shadow fading is fixed between stations are fixed at the
                      beginning of the experiment since during the experiment the station locations do not
                      change
            Put the fixed clients at 10 meters high


Submission                                        Page 6             Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                                       IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

            The SUI model is for outdoor operation
            When going outdoor to indoor
                 - Add building penetration loss
                 - Possibly increase the shadow fading standard deviation
            Add a description of various scenarios. Make the other parameters dependent on the
             scenario
            Should consider TX and RX diversity for 16h
            Need to review the receiver sensitivity values for 11y
            Steve will schedule Wednesday afternoon for the 802.19 meeting in San Francisco for this
             topic
            Paul will update his document and send out an update to be reviewed on the next call




8 Minutes from June 28 2007 Conference Call


8.1   Agenda

            Attendance
            Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy
             http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf
            Review simulation parameters document (Paul Piggin)
            http://ieee802.org/19/pub/2007/19-07-0011-01-0000-Parameters-for-Simulation.doc
            New business


8.2   Notes

            Everyone was familiar with the IEEE patent policy.
            Paul presented document 802.19-07/11r2 on simulation parameters. Paul hoped to go
             through the document and take some direction from the group on the TBDs and question
             marks within the draft. The aim is to have the document in good shape for the San
             Francisco plenary and for the document to be at a stage for approval.
            Discussion of the scenarios: There was a question about the registration of devices used in
             the indoor scenario. For this scenario what are the assumptions about the max. EIRP. This
             needs further understanding.



Submission                                       Page 7             Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                                       IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

            It was suggested that the 802.11n indoor propagation model be used for indoor scenarios.
             Eldad cited 11_03_0940_04 as the reference document. This is for 2.4 GHz and 5.8GHz.
            It was expressed that the indoor base station antenna gain may be in the order of 0dBi, i.e.
             not the same as the outdoor one expressed as 10dBi.
            Eldad stated that a possible further direction for the scenarios was to rank them in order of
             importance. This importance would be derived from member contribution and which
             scenarios were believed to be of most value.
            There was some discussion on the diversity gain for multiple antenna systems. This could be
             represented in the Fade Margin values. The SUI model is to be reviewed for any suitable
             recommendations.
            Mariana provided some input on possible modifications to the fixed, portable, and mobile
             antenna gains, and the cabling losses. In some cases the cabling loss may be a connector
             loss.
            Eldad pointed out that the 802.11y medium access timing values were default and from the
             standard and represented an indoor propagation scenario. It was noted that subclause
             7.3.2.9 in the 802.11 standard provided instruction on how these timings could be modified
             for other deployment scenarios.
            Paul Piggin to develop an 11r3 document based on comments received on the call and
             action items undertaken before the next call.
            Based on the feedback from those present on the call it was decided that a call for
             Thursday 12 July would be of benefit and help ahead of the San Francisco plenary meeting.
            There was no new business.




9 Minutes from July 12 2007 Conference Call


9.1   Agenda

            Attendance
            Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy
             http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf
            Review simulation parameters document 802.19-07/11r3 (Paul Piggin)
            Discuss plans for San Francisco
            New business




Submission                                        Page 8             Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                                   IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

9.2   Notes

            Everyone was familiar with the IEEE patent policy
            Goals for this activity
                - Agree on simulation parameters
                - Review simulations
                - Validate 16h design parameters
            Paul presented document 802.19-07/11r3 on simulation parameters
                - We reviewed the open items in the document
                - We will resolve those items in San Francisco
                - We also discussed that we need to agree on what coexistence metrics we should
                     use
                - Review email from Peter Ecclesine on traffic model distribution
                - Pick several traffic models to choose from




10 Minutes from August 9 2007 Conference Call


10.1 Agenda

            Attendance
            Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy
             http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf
            Review simulation parameters document 802.19-07/11r5 (Paul Piggin)
            Status of other action items
                 o Simple link adaptation algorithm
                 o Set of coexistence metrics for this scenario (Steve)
            New business



10.2 Notes

            Paul summarized his new document
            We discussed antenna patterns
            Paul to send out a link to the WiMAX reference
            The simulations will not include TPC in 802.11y
            The air propagation times have been revised

Submission                                      Page 9          Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                                        IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

            Marianna pointed out that the link budget includes losses and receiver sensitivity. She thinks
             the sensitivity includes these losses
            Marianna pointed out that the document must specify the number of sub-carriers for each
             CPE
            Marianna will email out the comments in detail
            Aryan Saed briefly reviewed his document on link adaptation. We will review it in more
             detail on the next conference call




11 Minutes from August 22 2007 Conference Call


11.1 Agenda

            Attendance
            Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy
             http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf
            Discuss comments from Marianna on simulation parameter documents (Paul)
            Discussion on simulation parameter document 802.19-07/0011r6 (Paul)
            Simple link adaptation algorithm (Aryan Saed)
            Set of coexistence metrics for this scenario (Steve)
            New business


11.2 Notes

            Paul addressed issues in his notes, the minutes, email from Marianna
            Paul accepted all of Marianna’s first set of comments.
            Paul will look at Marianna’s next comment on Coordinated Contention-Based Protocol
             (CXCBP) [1], clause 15.4.2.1.3 – C)
            Eldad pointed out that all the 11y devices will implement quiet periods for radar detection
             for DFS (spectrum management flag is set to True)
            Eldad to send out details on quiet periods in Spectrum Management
            Marianna will send out some information CXCBP to be included into Paul’s simulation
             document
            Marianna stated that the algorithm in the link adaptation modifies the MCS too quickly
            Eldad pointed out that we should not mandate the link adaptation used in the simulation
            Paul to put in some text on what simulation parameters are more flexible

Submission                                       Page 10             Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                                        IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

            Paul to add the fixed MCS as a link adaptation algorithm
            Marianna pointed out that we need a required SNR for each MCS in 802.11y
            Eldad pointed we can convert from receiver sensitivity to SNR by using the assumed 10 dB
             noise figure (in 802.11a standard). Includes a 5 dB implementation loss.
            Marianna pointed out we need to consider the OFDMA in 802.16h
            We need to include a traffic model for data (current model only includes VoIP)
            Marianna will send out a link to a 3GPP2 document on traffic models




12 Minutes from September 6 2007 Conference Call


12.1 Agenda

            Attendance
            Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy
             http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf
            Discussion on simulation parameter document 802.19-07/0011r7 (Paul)
            Set of coexistence metrics for this scenario 802.19-07/0020r0 (Steve)
            Simple link adaptation algorithm (Aryan Saed)
            New business


12.2 Notes

            Paul described structural changes to the document
            Mariana described the new material describing the Coordinated Contention Based
             Protocol
            Paul asked about a potential synchronization drift between the 11y and 16h networks, due
             to the fact that the 11y and 16h periods are not divisible to one another
            Bruce raised a concern about synchronizing multiple 11y networks with 16h
            Mariana discussed that in this band there will be operator cooperation
            Steve went over document 802.19-07/0020r0 on coexistence metrics
            Eldad asked how many simulations would be needed to get good estimates of the tail
             probabilities
            Paul’s first thought is that the time would not be too band based on his previous simulation
             work, but since he has only dealt with averages he would need to look at it closer
            Mariana suggested we select a simple set of topologies, similar to what Steve had done in
             estimating hidden node probabilities

Submission                                       Page 11             Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                                        IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

            Mariana suggested adding as a coexistence metric an outage probability
            Paul suggested adding at a coexistence metric the occupancy rate, which is the percentage
             of time that a network has access to the medium
            Bruce suggested that Steve socialize this more with the 802.11 working group at the
             September IEEE meeting




13 Minutes from October 11 2007 Conference Call


13.1 Agenda

            Attendance
            Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy
             http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf
            Presentation on “Enhancements to UCP LBT: Supporting simulation results” doc
             S802.16h-07/82 (Paul)
            New business


13.2 Notes

            Amendments to section on LBT based on the most recent version of draft (D3)
            Added a sentence in simulation document on simulation on sync
            Will remove an old section in revision 9
            Considering dropping the extended quiet period.
            New method involves 802.16h sends a reservation signal based on an 802.11 CTS signal
             to reserve the medium
            It is not necessary to steal any symbols for channel listening since there is some idle time
             already built in.
            We will finish reviewing the presentation on the next call.




14 Minutes from November 8 2007 Conference Call


14.1 Agenda


Submission                                       Page 12             Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                                       IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

            Attendance
            Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy
             http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf
            Discussion on planned joint meeting with 16h/19
            Update to Paul’s document
            New business


14.2 Notes

            Joint meeting on Tuesday PM2 (4-6 PM)
                 - Finalize the simulation parameters document
                 - Overview of CA document process
                 - Overview of protocols in 16h
                 - Discuss the approach for the 16h CA document
            We discussed some improvements to the simulation document
                 - Specify a typical number client stations (don’t simulate the max number of users)
                 - Specify a subset of the simulations to prevent having to run too many simulations.




15 Minutes from November 29 2007 Conference Call


15.1 Agenda

            Attendance
            Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy
             http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf
            Coexistence Metrics (Steve)
            Simulation Parameters (Paul)
            Uplink System gain (doc 26r0) (Marianna)
            New business


15.2 Notes

            Reviewed document 20r1
                - Will add a table on how to calculated HN and EN probability

Submission                                       Page 13             Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.
December 2007                                                        IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14

                 - Will add a PER metric
            Discussed simulation parameters document 11r10
                 - Reviewed document 26r0 on the Uplink system gain (Marianna)
                 - Made some modifications to link budget
                 - Agreed to make several traffic models mandatory (single frame size and statistical
                    distribution)
                 - Marianna will send some text on sub-carrier allocation
                 - Simulation will need to consider the sub-carrier allocation since it will effect whether
                    there is a packet error or not




16 Minutes from December 13 2007 Conference Call


16.1 Agenda

            Attendance
            Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy
             http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf
            Uplink sub-carrier allocation (Shahar Hauzner)
            Simulation Parameter (Paul)
            New business


16.2 Notes

            Reviewed document 27r0 on uplink sub-channel allocation.
                - The simulation parameters document will reference document 27r0 and recommend
                   that the simulation use that sub-carrier allocation method
            Reviewed document 11r11 on simulations parameters
                - Added a change history section
                - Added sub-channel OFDMA gain in the 16h link budget
                - Modified Traffic model section
                - Added section referencing coexistence metrics document
                - Discussed whether the downlink and uplink offered loads should be scaled since the
                   DL/UP ratio is 60:40 and not 50:50
                - Shahar will send Paul an email with details suggestions on this topic




Submission                                       Page 14             Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.