Conference Call Minutes
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December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 IEEE P802.19 Wireless Coexistence Project IEEE P802.19 Coexistence TAG Title Conference Call Minutes Date [December 13, 2007] Submitted [Stephen J. Shellhammer] Voice: [(858) 658-1874] Source [Qualcomm, Inc.] Fax: [(858) 651-3004] [5775 Morehouse Drive] E-mail: [email@example.com] [San Diego, CA 92121] Re:  Abstract [Conference Call Minutes] Purpose  Notice This document has been prepared to assist the IEEE P802.19. It is offered as a basis for discussion and is not binding on the contributing individual(s) or organization(s). The material in this document is subject to change in form and content after further study. The contributor(s) reserve(s) the right to add, amend or withdraw material contained herein. Release The contributor acknowledges and accepts that this contribution becomes the property of IEEE and may be made publicly available by P802.19. Submission Page 1 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 1 Conference Call Times Date Start Time End Time November 29 11 AM Eastern Time 12 PM Eastern Time December 13 11 AM Eastern Time 12 PM Eastern Time January 3 11 AM Eastern Time 12 PM Eastern Time 2 Attendance Participant Dec 13 Douglas Chan Amir Ghasemi Mariana Goldhammer Shahar Hauzner X Bruce Kramer Dan Lubar Shlomo Malka Nat Natarajan Ziv Nuss Eldad Perahia X Paul Piggin X Ahmed Sadek Aryan Saed Steve Shellhammer X Kathy Sohrabi Ken Stanwood Adrian Stephens John Sydor Darcy Swain Steve Whitesell Ariton Xhafa Submission Page 2 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 3 Minutes from March 29 2007 Conference Call 3.1 Agenda Attendance (Steve) Discuss presentation 802.16h-07/38r1 from Paul Piggin New Business 3.2 Notes 802.16 bandwidths of 5, 10, 20 MHz are available 802.16 power has not yet been set, will be set to max value permitted in the band 802.16 is a 5 ms frame duration The 802.11y link budget parameters need to be defined The 802.11 contention window parameters are given in 11e In simulation the bandwidth are such that there are four channels for 11y and 16h Assume omni-directional antenna for 11y and 16h BS and stations The channels were assigned by considering all the base stations (11y and 16h) and picking the best channel by optimizing the SIR. This is a global optimization assuming coordination between 11y and 16h It was pointed out that the 802.11 MAC is more complex than the model being used in this simulation Need to include RTS/CTS and link adaptation Stanford university (SUI) propagation model Build a document with simulation parameters assumptions (Paul to start that document, others to contribute) John and Amir will present next time Action Item Owner Start a document on simulation parameters Paul Piggin Present at the next conference call John Sydor and Amir Ghasemi 4 Minutes from April 12 2007 Conference Call Submission Page 3 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 4.1 Agenda Attendance (Steve) Discuss presentation S802.16h-07/17r1 by Amir Ghasemi and John Sydor Discuss document 802.19-07/11r0 by Paul Piggin New Business 4.2 Notes Amir gave the presentation on simulation of 11y/16h under three conditions - Baseline - LBT in 16h - EQP in 16h Results show that if there are no hidden nodes that LBT works well and EQP work okay. Mariana suggested to add a fragmentation to 11y model Paul reviewed his document on simulation parameters. We agreed to work on this document so we have a common set of simulation parameters Eldad sent out the following two 802.16 documents - 802.16.3c-01/29 - 802.16.3c-01/53 Several people are unable to make the April 26 call so we may switch it to May 3 The next available time for a face-to-face meeting will be the July Plenary session 5 Minutes from May 3 2007 Conference Call 5.1 Agenda Attendance (Steve) Interference between systems sharing spectrum in 3.65GHz (Mariana Goldhamer) An update on simulations including changes due to 11e amendment (Paul Piggin) New Business Submission Page 4 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 5.2 Notes Mariana reviewed document C80216h-07/39r1 There was some discussion about the adjacent channel interference. It would be useful to review the adjacent channel interference analysis Paul presented document S80216h-07/50r0 which describes updates to the simulation Paul is developing. The updates include more accurate models of 802.11 MAC Action Item – See if we can obtain from Peter Ecclesine a reference on statistics of packet sizes Steve will be giving a presentation on CCA-ED in 802.11y at the Montreal meeting. He will distribute the presentation to members of these calls. Other items for the Montreal meeting would be to review some of these presentations and prepare any feedback for the authors 6 Minutes from May 31 2007 Conference Call 6.1 Agenda Attendance Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf Presentation on Clear Channel Assessment Energy Detection (CCA-ED) in 802.11y which evaluates CCA-ED in 802.11y with nearby 802.16h (Steve) http://ieee802.org/19/pub/2007/19-07-0010-01-0000-CCA-ED-in-802.11y.ppt New business 6.2 Notes Everyone was familiar with the IEEE patent policy Steve presented document 802.19-07/0010r1 on CCA-ED in 802.11y We had a discussion on the interpretation of the 4 s in 11y. Eldad reviewed the 11y draft while on the call. We probably need to review it off-line and confirm the interpretation for CCA-ED Steve needs to modify the threshold so to get 90% P D at the specified signal power Submission Page 5 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 Eldad suggested that Steve consider the effect of the single parity bit in 11a (hence also 11y) on CCA-CS which is also running in parallel with CCA-ED Next call (June 14) we will attempt to come to an agreement on all the simulation parameters Paul suggested Steve schedule 4 hours of 802.19 meeting time in San Francisco dedicated to this topic of 11y/16h coexistence 7 Minutes from June 14 2007 Conference Call 7.1 Agenda Attendance Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf Review simulation parameters document (Paul Piggin) http://ieee802.org/19/pub/2007/19-07-0011-01-0000-Parameters-for-Simulation.doc New business 7.2 Notes Everyone was familiar with the IEEE patent policy Paul presented document 802.19-07/11r1 on simulation parameters We discussed what value should be used for shadow fading The document on the SUI model discusses shadow fading It was suggested a shadow fading margin of 6 dB (90% area coverage probability assuming an 8 dB shadow fading standard deviation For the shadow fading we need to also consider the CCA sensing link and the interference link - One approach is to pick the shadow fading value randomly between stations and then keep them fixed for those locations - On each experiment the shadow fading is fixed between stations are fixed at the beginning of the experiment since during the experiment the station locations do not change Put the fixed clients at 10 meters high Submission Page 6 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 The SUI model is for outdoor operation When going outdoor to indoor - Add building penetration loss - Possibly increase the shadow fading standard deviation Add a description of various scenarios. Make the other parameters dependent on the scenario Should consider TX and RX diversity for 16h Need to review the receiver sensitivity values for 11y Steve will schedule Wednesday afternoon for the 802.19 meeting in San Francisco for this topic Paul will update his document and send out an update to be reviewed on the next call 8 Minutes from June 28 2007 Conference Call 8.1 Agenda Attendance Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf Review simulation parameters document (Paul Piggin) http://ieee802.org/19/pub/2007/19-07-0011-01-0000-Parameters-for-Simulation.doc New business 8.2 Notes Everyone was familiar with the IEEE patent policy. Paul presented document 802.19-07/11r2 on simulation parameters. Paul hoped to go through the document and take some direction from the group on the TBDs and question marks within the draft. The aim is to have the document in good shape for the San Francisco plenary and for the document to be at a stage for approval. Discussion of the scenarios: There was a question about the registration of devices used in the indoor scenario. For this scenario what are the assumptions about the max. EIRP. This needs further understanding. Submission Page 7 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 It was suggested that the 802.11n indoor propagation model be used for indoor scenarios. Eldad cited 11_03_0940_04 as the reference document. This is for 2.4 GHz and 5.8GHz. It was expressed that the indoor base station antenna gain may be in the order of 0dBi, i.e. not the same as the outdoor one expressed as 10dBi. Eldad stated that a possible further direction for the scenarios was to rank them in order of importance. This importance would be derived from member contribution and which scenarios were believed to be of most value. There was some discussion on the diversity gain for multiple antenna systems. This could be represented in the Fade Margin values. The SUI model is to be reviewed for any suitable recommendations. Mariana provided some input on possible modifications to the fixed, portable, and mobile antenna gains, and the cabling losses. In some cases the cabling loss may be a connector loss. Eldad pointed out that the 802.11y medium access timing values were default and from the standard and represented an indoor propagation scenario. It was noted that subclause 22.214.171.124 in the 802.11 standard provided instruction on how these timings could be modified for other deployment scenarios. Paul Piggin to develop an 11r3 document based on comments received on the call and action items undertaken before the next call. Based on the feedback from those present on the call it was decided that a call for Thursday 12 July would be of benefit and help ahead of the San Francisco plenary meeting. There was no new business. 9 Minutes from July 12 2007 Conference Call 9.1 Agenda Attendance Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf Review simulation parameters document 802.19-07/11r3 (Paul Piggin) Discuss plans for San Francisco New business Submission Page 8 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 9.2 Notes Everyone was familiar with the IEEE patent policy Goals for this activity - Agree on simulation parameters - Review simulations - Validate 16h design parameters Paul presented document 802.19-07/11r3 on simulation parameters - We reviewed the open items in the document - We will resolve those items in San Francisco - We also discussed that we need to agree on what coexistence metrics we should use - Review email from Peter Ecclesine on traffic model distribution - Pick several traffic models to choose from 10 Minutes from August 9 2007 Conference Call 10.1 Agenda Attendance Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf Review simulation parameters document 802.19-07/11r5 (Paul Piggin) Status of other action items o Simple link adaptation algorithm o Set of coexistence metrics for this scenario (Steve) New business 10.2 Notes Paul summarized his new document We discussed antenna patterns Paul to send out a link to the WiMAX reference The simulations will not include TPC in 802.11y The air propagation times have been revised Submission Page 9 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 Marianna pointed out that the link budget includes losses and receiver sensitivity. She thinks the sensitivity includes these losses Marianna pointed out that the document must specify the number of sub-carriers for each CPE Marianna will email out the comments in detail Aryan Saed briefly reviewed his document on link adaptation. We will review it in more detail on the next conference call 11 Minutes from August 22 2007 Conference Call 11.1 Agenda Attendance Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf Discuss comments from Marianna on simulation parameter documents (Paul) Discussion on simulation parameter document 802.19-07/0011r6 (Paul) Simple link adaptation algorithm (Aryan Saed) Set of coexistence metrics for this scenario (Steve) New business 11.2 Notes Paul addressed issues in his notes, the minutes, email from Marianna Paul accepted all of Marianna’s first set of comments. Paul will look at Marianna’s next comment on Coordinated Contention-Based Protocol (CXCBP) , clause 126.96.36.199.3 – C) Eldad pointed out that all the 11y devices will implement quiet periods for radar detection for DFS (spectrum management flag is set to True) Eldad to send out details on quiet periods in Spectrum Management Marianna will send out some information CXCBP to be included into Paul’s simulation document Marianna stated that the algorithm in the link adaptation modifies the MCS too quickly Eldad pointed out that we should not mandate the link adaptation used in the simulation Paul to put in some text on what simulation parameters are more flexible Submission Page 10 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 Paul to add the fixed MCS as a link adaptation algorithm Marianna pointed out that we need a required SNR for each MCS in 802.11y Eldad pointed we can convert from receiver sensitivity to SNR by using the assumed 10 dB noise figure (in 802.11a standard). Includes a 5 dB implementation loss. Marianna pointed out we need to consider the OFDMA in 802.16h We need to include a traffic model for data (current model only includes VoIP) Marianna will send out a link to a 3GPP2 document on traffic models 12 Minutes from September 6 2007 Conference Call 12.1 Agenda Attendance Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf Discussion on simulation parameter document 802.19-07/0011r7 (Paul) Set of coexistence metrics for this scenario 802.19-07/0020r0 (Steve) Simple link adaptation algorithm (Aryan Saed) New business 12.2 Notes Paul described structural changes to the document Mariana described the new material describing the Coordinated Contention Based Protocol Paul asked about a potential synchronization drift between the 11y and 16h networks, due to the fact that the 11y and 16h periods are not divisible to one another Bruce raised a concern about synchronizing multiple 11y networks with 16h Mariana discussed that in this band there will be operator cooperation Steve went over document 802.19-07/0020r0 on coexistence metrics Eldad asked how many simulations would be needed to get good estimates of the tail probabilities Paul’s first thought is that the time would not be too band based on his previous simulation work, but since he has only dealt with averages he would need to look at it closer Mariana suggested we select a simple set of topologies, similar to what Steve had done in estimating hidden node probabilities Submission Page 11 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 Mariana suggested adding as a coexistence metric an outage probability Paul suggested adding at a coexistence metric the occupancy rate, which is the percentage of time that a network has access to the medium Bruce suggested that Steve socialize this more with the 802.11 working group at the September IEEE meeting 13 Minutes from October 11 2007 Conference Call 13.1 Agenda Attendance Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf Presentation on “Enhancements to UCP LBT: Supporting simulation results” doc S802.16h-07/82 (Paul) New business 13.2 Notes Amendments to section on LBT based on the most recent version of draft (D3) Added a sentence in simulation document on simulation on sync Will remove an old section in revision 9 Considering dropping the extended quiet period. New method involves 802.16h sends a reservation signal based on an 802.11 CTS signal to reserve the medium It is not necessary to steal any symbols for channel listening since there is some idle time already built in. We will finish reviewing the presentation on the next call. 14 Minutes from November 8 2007 Conference Call 14.1 Agenda Submission Page 12 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 Attendance Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf Discussion on planned joint meeting with 16h/19 Update to Paul’s document New business 14.2 Notes Joint meeting on Tuesday PM2 (4-6 PM) - Finalize the simulation parameters document - Overview of CA document process - Overview of protocols in 16h - Discuss the approach for the 16h CA document We discussed some improvements to the simulation document - Specify a typical number client stations (don’t simulate the max number of users) - Specify a subset of the simulations to prevent having to run too many simulations. 15 Minutes from November 29 2007 Conference Call 15.1 Agenda Attendance Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf Coexistence Metrics (Steve) Simulation Parameters (Paul) Uplink System gain (doc 26r0) (Marianna) New business 15.2 Notes Reviewed document 20r1 - Will add a table on how to calculated HN and EN probability Submission Page 13 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc. December 2007 IEEE P802.19-07/0009r14 - Will add a PER metric Discussed simulation parameters document 11r10 - Reviewed document 26r0 on the Uplink system gain (Marianna) - Made some modifications to link budget - Agreed to make several traffic models mandatory (single frame size and statistical distribution) - Marianna will send some text on sub-carrier allocation - Simulation will need to consider the sub-carrier allocation since it will effect whether there is a packet error or not 16 Minutes from December 13 2007 Conference Call 16.1 Agenda Attendance Check to see if anyone is not familiar with the IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf Uplink sub-carrier allocation (Shahar Hauzner) Simulation Parameter (Paul) New business 16.2 Notes Reviewed document 27r0 on uplink sub-channel allocation. - The simulation parameters document will reference document 27r0 and recommend that the simulation use that sub-carrier allocation method Reviewed document 11r11 on simulations parameters - Added a change history section - Added sub-channel OFDMA gain in the 16h link budget - Modified Traffic model section - Added section referencing coexistence metrics document - Discussed whether the downlink and uplink offered loads should be scaled since the DL/UP ratio is 60:40 and not 50:50 - Shahar will send Paul an email with details suggestions on this topic Submission Page 14 Steve Shellhammer, Qualcomm, Inc.