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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 vs. CASEY ANTHONY,
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE NINTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA ZENAIDA FERNANDEZ-GONZALEZ, Plaintiff/Counter-Defendant, CASE NO.: 08-CA-24573
Defendant/Counter-Plaintiff. -----------------------------------------------------ROUGH DRAFT ** ROUGH DRAFT ** ROUGH DRAFT The videotaped deposition of JAMES D. HOOVER taken pursuant to Notice on behalf of the Plaintiff/Counter-Defendant on Wednesday, March 25, 2009, beginning at 10:10 a.m., at the law firm of Morgan & Morgan, 20 North Orange Avenue, 16th Floor, Orlando, Florida, before Laura J. Landerman, R.M.R., C.R.R., F.P.R., and Notary Public, State of Florida at Large.
CENTRAL FLORIDA REPORTERS, INC. Orlando, Florida
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A P P E A R A N C E S: JOHN B. MORGAN, ESQUIRE Morgan & Morgan, P.A. 20 North Orange Avenue -- 16th Floor Orlando, Florida 32801 For the Plaintiff/Counter-Defendant,
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 No appearance on behalf of the Defendant/Counter-Plaintiff.
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I N D E X TESTIMONY OF JAMES D. HOOVER Direct Examination by Mr. Morgan CERTIFICATE OF OATH CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER WORD INDEX E X H I B I T S (None marked.)
- - - - S T I P U L A T I O N S It is hereby stipulated and agreed between counsel for the respective parties and the witness that the reading and signing of the deposition be reserved.
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THE VIDEOGRAPHER: March 25th, 2009.
Good morning.
The date is
This is the deposition of Jim
Hoover being taken in the matter of Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez versus Casey Anthony. is 10:11 a.m., and we're on record. Counsel, please introduce yourself. MR. MORGAN: I'm John Morgan of Morgan & The time
Morgan, and I'm here with one of our interns, Will Bates. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: in the witness. - - - - JAMES D. HOOVER having been first duly sworn testified as follows: MR. MORGAN: I've gotta do one thing. Can we Court reporter please swear
stop rolling here a minute? THE VIDEOGRAPHER: the record. (Off-the-record discussion was had.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: on record. BY MR. MORGAN: Q hours. case -Hopefully, we will only be here a couple I want to ask you some questions as far as a Time is 15014. We are back It's 10:11. We'll go off
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A Q
Couple hours? Or more. Regarding our case of Zenaida I'm going to ask you If you
Gonzalez versus Casey Anthony. questions.
They'll be fairly straightforward.
don't understand something I ask you, let me know, and I'll rephrase it or I'll repeat it. A Q Okay. That's fine.
The only thing that you may want to do just
for Laura's sake is -- and for everybody's sake -- is if I ask you a question and it's a yes or no answer, if you say uh-huh or huh-uh, that's really -- they can't transcribe that. A Q A Q I understand that. You've been through that before. Yeah, a few hundred times. Yeah, I would think so. Would you please
state your name for the record? A Q A James Hoover. And Mr. Hoover, where do you live? I'll give you this address in writing. I
don't want that to be made media public. address. Q A Q
You have my
You don't want this to be made media public? Yes, sir. Well, I'll respect that.
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A Q A Q A Q
Same address you sent the -Okay. And what is your occupation?
Private investigator. Private investigator? Sure. All right. How long have you been a private
investigator? A 35 years, somewhere in there. Actually,
longer than that. Q A Where do you work? I work for various insurance companies and
licensed private detective agency or any attorney that will hire me. Q Okay. So you're not -- you don't have your
own business? A Q No, sir. You work for different private investigators
and insurance companies? A Q A to be rude. Q A Yes, sir. Who are you currently working for? I don't think that's relevant. I'm not trying
I don't think they'd want the publicity. But I have a right to know this. The last case I worked recently for Class Class Action Detective Agency.
Action Detective Agency.
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Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A
We're having trouble with your teeth. Class Action. Class Action? Detective Agency. But are you currently working today? No, sir, not today. Not today? No, sir. Do you need some water? Yeah, would you, please. Is your mouth dry? I take Prednisone
for asthma, and it's like, you know. Q A glaucoma. man. Q A Q You look younger than me. That's because I've got my make-up on. And teeth. Have you ever had any training as Dries you up? Between that and -- that and the eye drops for I'm almost 66 years old. I'm falling apart,
a private investigator? A Q A Yes, sir. What was that training? It was back in Baltimore area for a company
named -- well, couple different companies, but primarily the one I got the most training was from Mid-Atlantic Security in Kingsville, Maryland.
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Q that -A Q
And how old were you when you did that?
Was
I was in my 20s. So would you work in the service? Were you in
the service? A Q A Q Was I in the military? Yeah. Yes, sir. So after the military, you started working
straight out as a private investigator? A Q No, I had some other jobs in between. Okay. How old were you when you first started
working as a private investigator? A Q Like I say, in my 20s, 26, 20 -- maybe 26. So for the last 40 something years, then, this
is all you've done? A Q A Q A No, I've done other things too. What else? Is that -- do I need to answer that? Yeah. What else? Everything from working steel
mills, construction, just, you know, dozens of jobs. Q Is this more of a hobby for you? I'm trying Is this
to get -- I'm trying to get is this your career?
something you kind of do to supplement your income or --
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A Q
It's a job. Has it ever been a full-time job for you being
a private investigator? A Q A Q Oh, absolutely. I mean for like a period of a year for a time? For years, not year. Okay. And as a private investigator, most of
your work has been in the insurance business, I understand? A Q A Q A Q A Q A years. Q So you haven't investigated a criminal case Recently, yes. All right. Yeah, probably. Have you ever investigated a criminal case? Uh-huh. That's a yes, I guess? Yes, sir, I'm sorry. When was -- what case was that? Oh, God. Again, this is going back 20, 30
for 20, 30 years? A Q A Right, right. What case was that? Well, I used to do a lot of the under cover
work and involved with industrial theft for -- one was --
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you want to know the name of the company? Q A Yeah? >Zomoski Corporation in Baltimore, Maryland,
worked under cover there was a criminal investigation. Q A Felony, no. Q A Q A Have you ever been arrested? Uhm, yeah, I think so. What was it for? Let's see. One probably failure to appear for What else? Have you ever been charged with a crime? Have I ever been charged with a crime?
a traffic ticket or something. Q A
But you have no felony convictions? No, obviously not. You can't have a felony
and be a private investigator. Q All right. What is it -- as a private
investigator, what are some of the skill sets that are necessary to perform your job? A Patience, determination, honest. That's
primarily it. Q A Q A Q How long have you lived in the Orlando area? As you know, I don't live in the Orlando area. Well, how long have you lived -In Florida? In Florida, yeah.
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A Q A
Came here in '93. What -- what brought you to Florida? My brother had cancer and I came down here to
be with him the last few years. Q And so since '93 to now, has your work
exclusively been doing private investigation or have you done other things? A Q Done other things. What percent of your time, you know, is spent
in a year as a private investigator and how many is spent doing other jobs? A I'm available every day for private
investigations. Q A Q So if we were to subpoena your tax records -Uh-huh. -- we would see how much money you make a year
as a private investigator? A Q Sure. What's -- what's -- like last year, what was
your income as a private investigator? A Q A Q I don't know. Is it 10,000, 5 -I don't -- I don't know. Okay. And last year, let's talk about just
last year, last year, what percentage of your time was
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spent as a private investigator? A Q A Q A companies. Q A Like for who? Allstate, state -- State Farm? I don't know. I'd have to figure it out.
What -- what jobs did you work on last year? What jobs did I work on last year? Yeah, what were you hired to do last year? Do private investigation mostly for insurance
The assignments -- the assignments don't come The assignments come through the
to me directly.
agencies I work for. Q A Q What agencies did you work for last year? Primarily Class Action Detective Agency. Class Action Detective Agency. Now, where is
that located? A Q A Q A Q A Q Buchanan? A Couple days ago. Tampa, Florida. And who owns that company? This is all relevant to this -Very. I believe it's Alan Buchanan. How long have you known Alan Buchanan? E, my gosh. 13 years maybe.
When was the last time you spoke to Alan
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Q A Q
Did you talk about this deposition? No, sir. You-all had -- you had no conversation about
this deposition? A Q days ago? A Q A Q A Q A Q A is private. Q A Q arson case? A Q I don't want to know any -I can't -I just want to know, in other words, is it an Is it, you know, surveillance? Yeah, primarily surveillance, yeah. Is that primarily what you do primarily you're Is that your real specialty? A case I was working on. Okay. What kind of case? No. What was -- what did you-all talk about two
It's a private investigation case. Was it insurance fraud? Yes. Was it an arson case? Yes, insurance fraud. What happened to that case? There is a part of private investigation that
kind of a surveillance guy? A
My specialty is trying to uncover the truth
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for the investigation, but I do do surveillance certainly, as all investigators do. Q When Class Action Detective, when they call
you -- I guess you're an independent contractor with them? A are. Q A Q A They are? Uh-huh. No so nobody works for -You may work for a company a long period of You don't work -Yeah, all private investigators in Florida
time, but you're licensed by the State of Florida, but if this company wants to hire me this week and somebody else wants to hire me next week, that's fine. bound by, you know, any one place. You're not
In some states, you
are, I believe, but not here in Florida. Q As a private investigator, you know, people Some people are specialists in arson. What is your --
have specialties.
Some people are specialists in domestic.
when they call you from Class Action, what is it that they -- that they need you to do on a regular basis, if you would say -- we don't need to spend too much time on this. A I'm just trying to get -Just basically discover the truth on the
particular case I'm working.
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Q A Q A
Do you take witness statements? I have in the past, yeah. So you're used to what we're doing here? I've taken witness statements before, yeah,
and I've done this before, certainly. Q But your primarily, as I'm trying to read
between the line is a guy that just kind of follows people, surveillance? A Q Not necessarily. But Class Action Detective Agency will have
all the records for the last 13 years of all the work you've done for them and all the money they've paid you and all the tax information, the 1040s or whatever those, you know, W-2s are? A That's the question you'd have to ask them. I
would assume that they would. Q But for -- basically, if I wanted to get a
handle on you here in Florida, most of your work has been done at the Class Action Detective Agency? A Q A Q Okay. Is that -- is that correct? That's correct. And Alan Buchanan has been there the whole
A
Yes, sir.
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Q A Q A
So he's -- are you all friends? Are we friends? Yeah. We're as much of friends as an employer,
employee can be. Q And without talking about where you live --
well, strike that. Let's -- let's talk about this Casey Anthony
A Q
Okay. Yeah.
That's why I came here. When -- when did you -- when were you
first engaged -- strike that. When did you first know anything or hear anything about the Casey Anthony case and the disappearance of Caylee? A From television news like everybody else, I
would presume. Q A Q A Do you remember what -- when that was? No, sir, not really. May, June? Well, it had to have been after June.
Probably in July sometime. Q A Q July of 2008? Yes, sir. So the first time you were aware of anything,
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you saw it on television? A Q Yes, sir. Okay. And what did you -- what did you --
what do you first remember? A Just hearing the news report about Caylee
missing and, basically, just whatever's on the news, you know. Q Did you also see anything about that the
mother was -A Oh, I heard the story. I mean just, you know,
whatever's on the news, whatever Casey said to the news and what they reported, you know. Q missing? A Q A Uh-huh. What else? Just the story that Casey had told to the What do you remember hearing, that Caylee was
officers in charge, that she had dropped her off with a baby-sitter and then when she went to go back to find her, you know, she wasn't there. Q A Q You heard that? Yes, sir. Okay. Now, how did you become involved in the
investigation of this case? A How I became involved in the investigation? I
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didn't become involved in the investigation of the case, primarily. Q A I didn't understand what you just said. I didn't become involved in the investigation
part of the case. Q A What is your involvement in this case? When you see people on television being
harassed, okay, and nobody coming to help except for a few people standing out in front, when you see people being picked on and threatened and hassled and, you know, sometimes you think you just have to go down there and kind of step forward or step in and say, hey, these people don't need this aggravation. bodyguard previously, you know. people need some help. And I've been a
I just thought these
I'm going to go there and offer I wasn't the only
these people some help as a citizen.
person that did that, by the way, certainly. Q A Q A You've been a body guard before? Yes, sir. Who were you a bodyguard for? Again, that's -- that's always private.
That's always private. Q A Q Did they pay you to be a bodyguard? No, sir. No?
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A Q
No, sir. You just were -- you just do free bodyguard
A Q A Q
I went down there to help protect the family. Who? George and Cindy Anthony. You said in the past you've done bodyguard
A Q A
Uh-huh. Who have you done bodyguard work for? There's a part of private investigations that, I'm
you know, I don't know how this has any relevance.
not trying to be rude or anything certainly, but people who hire private bodyguards, they want to keep it private. Okay? It could have been anybody from --
something from a politician to a celebrity to a sports figure. Q It could have been -So you've been a bodyguard for sports figure,
celebrities and politicians? A I may have. Again, I'm not trying to, you
know, be coy here, but it's -Q If I was a bodyguard for a celebrity, I'd It wouldn't be mayhap. If I was a
remember it.
bodyguard for Oprah, I'd remember that. A Okay.
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Q
Were you a bodyguard for a celebrity?
Do you
have memory problems? A Maybe. I mean, not same area. I'm old. I
don't have memory problems as such, no. Q things. A Well, yeah, it's just -- you know, I don't Because you seem to be grasping for simple
know how this has anything to do with the case. Q Well, I'm trying to establish what your
expertise is and what your ultimate role is in this case and then we can move through it fairly quickly. A My expertise in the case was nothing more than
a private citizen going down there offering a family help who was being harassed by people going down there and just picking on the family who didn't deserve to be picked on. Q Well, I'm going to ask you who the sports
figure is that you worked as a bodyguard for. A I think maybe we should end this and I'll get
an attorney because I don't remember or I'd have to go through records, you know. Q We don't need to end it. If you refuse to
answer, I'll just certify the question and you can get, you know, you can get an attorney for that later. A I just don't see how it's relevant. I'm not
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trying to be rude or anything. Q who it is. You remember. You just decided -- you know And
You're just not going to say today?
that's fine, you know, but do you remember -- is your answer I remember but I'm not going to answer today? This is the easy part, by the way. A Well, it's -- you know, I don't mind answering
your questions, but it seems to me it should be relevant to the case of which I really have no real knowledge. Q Do you remember -- I don't want to know the
name, so do you remember the name of the sports figure you were a bodyguard for? A Q A Q name? A That's just not -MR. MORGAN: THE WITNESS: BY MR. MORGAN: Q Do you remember the politician that you were a Okay. Okay. We'll certify that. Okay. Yeah.
But you -I'll say yes. But today you're not going to give us that
bodyguard for? A Q No. That was -- no.
You just don't -- did you serve as a bodyguard
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for a politician? A Q A Q It was actually a member of the family. So you were a member of the family -I'm sorry. Do you want to tell us who the family was or
keep that private as well? A Q A I'd like to keep that private. So you're not going to answer that question? No, sir. MR. MORGAN: Q celebrity. A celebrity. I'll certify that.
And then you also worked as a bodyguard for a Do you remember who that celebrity was? No. I didn't say I was a bodyguard for a Again,
I said -- well, let me rephrase this.
I don't see how this is relevant to anybody. Q A Q A Q So you don't remember? Right. Actually -- excuse me. Yes, sir.
So in July -Uh-huh. -- you see this on TV about Casey Anthony.
You felt bad for her? A No, I didn't say that. I said I felt bad for
the family, primarily George and Cindy. Q A Okay. And why did you feel bad for them?
Well, you see people going up to their house
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and making threat, you know, making threats, throwing things at them, cursing them, going after them physically. Q A Q you? A Q It's not right. Did you feel sorry for Casey as well? No. So you decided to initiate -- nobody retained The Anthonys never have retained you? That's right. Is it my understanding that in July while
watching news reports on television, you decided to volunteer to render aid and assistance and private investigation? A I went down there as a private citizen as good
other people. Q A Q A Q As a private citizen? Uh-huh. Not in capacity as a private investigator? Because I wasn't doing an investigation, no. Okay. So when was your first contact with the
Anthony family? A remember. I don't remember. I truthfully don't
I think it was on a Saturday, but I wouldn't
know the date. Q I don't need the date, just the range in time.
As a private investigator, you probably take --
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A Q A Q A
Not on this. Oh, you didn't take notes? Not on this, no. I had no reason to.
So you went down in July? No. I think it was in August. I think it was
sometime in August. because I don't know. Q Okay.
Again, I wouldn't swear to it
So in August you decided to contact the How did you meet them?
Anthony family. A
Just drove down there and just -- I was in my Mr. Anthony was outside working. I
car and drove up.
just told him who I was, and I said -- I just told him I'm not a reporter. I said if I can be of any help to
you, you know, I'll be more than happy -- I'll be more than happy to help you. Q A thank you. Q A Q A So you left your home one Saturday morning -Uh-huh. And how'd you know where they lived? How did I know where they lived? It's public And you -- I'm sorry. He just looked at me kind of strange and said
information. Q A So you -- did you put knit your GPS. I don't need a GPS.
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Q A Q from here. A Q A Q A Q
Just a map and went there? It had already been broadcast on TV and radio. How'd you know how to get there? You're not
I can read a map. That's why asked. Yeah, but not GPS. Map. And went to their home? You took a map?
Sure, sure. My understanding is you then pull up and
there's George working in the yard? A Q A Uh-huh. You get out and you say -I didn't get out. I just drove out and he was
working and I just said hello, introduced myself and just told him what I just said to you. Q A And what did he say? Just looked at me and after a few seconds, he
said thank you, and that was it. Q A Q A Thank you for what? Thank you for what I just offered. And the offer was? If I could be of service to you, you know,
I'll be more than happy to help you. Q So how long did the conversation last?
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A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A
15, 20 seconds. Did you hand him your business card? No, sir. Do you have a business card? No, sir. So then you drove away? I parked my car. Did you get out? Uh-huh. So -- and then what happened? Ms. Anthony came out and she spoke to some of It wasn't being taped or anything, I
the media people.
don't believe, and just struck up a conversation with her and that's primarily it. Q A Just -Q As a private investigator, you probably got a What'd you-all talk about? Just -- again, this is going back six months.
memory like a steel trap? A When I was younger maybe, but not at -- not my What did we talk about? Just
advanced age here.
basically, I just said I've been seeing what's been going on on television. your family. I don't think it's fair you to and
If I could be of any help to you, I'll be And she asked me to wait
more than happy to help you.
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right there and wait there for a few minutes and I did. And we spoke again later. Q A And when -- when did you speak again? Few minutes later. I say few minutes.
Probably 10, 15 minutes later. Q A What'd you talk about then? She had -- she had called her private -- she
said she's going to call her private investigator to check me out, and then -- and she came out a few minutes later and she said you're going to be get a phone call soon. Just about the same time I got a phone call from
another private investigator. Q A Q before? A Q No, sir. And so she told you she'd already hired a And who was that? Dominic Casey. Had you ever met Dominic Casey or heard of him
private investigator? A Q A Q A Yeah. Okay. And did Dominic Casey call you?
Yes, sir. When? Like I say, about 10 or 15 minutes after my --
probably 15 minutes of my first conversation with
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Mrs. Anthony. Q Did he call you while you were still out there
on the front yard? A front yard. Q A Q A Q Where were you? Standing over behind some of the media trucks. Okay. On the opposite side of the street. So you meet with them. Did you talk about the I wasn't on the front yard. I wasn't on the
case at all with -A Q No. -- George? And so you went over behind the Just kind
media trucks. of watching? A
What were you doing over there?
Yeah, I'm watching the circus that was going
on, basically. Q A said. So you'd driven over to see the circus? I wouldn't say I drove -- that's not what I I said there was a circus going on. I drove over
there to help the Anthony family. Q A And when you got there behind the trucks's oh? I wasn't standing behind the truck. In the
area where the trucks were.
If you're standing across Let's put it
the street, you're around the trucks.
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around the trucks. Q And so did your phone ring? Did you get a
call from Dominic Casey? A It rings. Q Some vibrate. And then tell me what happened Well, yeah, that's how you get a point call.
with Dominic Casey called you. A He called and said that -- he said that he had
checked me out, verified that I was, you know, who I was. He thanked me for offering to help them and basically said that since he has started this case, just basically since he has started working this case that it had kind of become a >pirana. Nobody wanted to work with him or He
work on the particular case, let me put it that way. appreciated any help I could give him. You know, words to that effect.
And we talked
for just a minute or two but not about the case, just how long -- he asked me how long I've been doing this, that sort of thing. Q A Right. Just, you know, general conversation. And
actually I hadn't met him -- I didn't meet him for, gosh, several weeks after that. Q you left? How long did you hang around the circus before
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A Q A
Oh, not very long. And then where'd you go? Where'd I go that day? Might have went shopping. I probably went back It's a Saturday, you
Q A Q A Q A Q A Q
Did you drive over by yourself? Yes, sir. Are you married? Not now, no, sir. Were you married then? Yes, sir. What's your wife's name? My ex-wife's name? Yeah. It's ex now. I'm sorry. Yeah, your
ex-wife's name? A I don't think she'd really be happy if I said. You know, we're not a story
Again, we're private people. here. Q You know, we're just --
Well, when you drive over and interject
yourself into something like this you become the story and you're not private anymore, sir, with all due respect. A Q A Okay. What is your ex-wife's name? Loretta.
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Q A
And how can I get in touch with Loretta? I'll give you that -- I'll write that down for
Q A Q A Q
Would you? Sure. Hand me that paper, please.
An Loretta doesn't live over where you live? No, sir. She moved to -- I don't want to give out her
location either, but she's moved to this area code here, I guess? A Q final? A Q A Q It's the same area code where I am. Okay. When were you -- when was the divorce
It's public record so I can find out. November. All right. Sometime in November. Now --
This is the easy part, right? Yeah. Whenever you're talking about your
ex-wife, it's easy. You go home that night. How much time
transpires before you have anything else to do with Dominic Casey, Cindy Anthony, Casey Anthony, George Anthony, anybody else? A Uhm, gosh. That was on Saturday. I think
maybe the following -- I think it might have been the following Friday. Again, I don't know the exact date.
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But probably following Friday I was going down and there was, again, a crowd of people. And I'm trying to think
if I talked to Dominic before that. I may have talked to Dominic in that interim, you know, that week, but I'm not sure. Again, you can
pull my phone records and check it certainly. Q Has anyone checked -- has anyone subpoenaed
your cell phone records? A Q A sir. Q A You don't know? Go ahead. You're welcome to do it. Have the police done that yet? You'll have to ask the police. I don't know,
Just -- I only went down there a couple nights
a week, you know, usually on a Friday, Saturday night because that seems to be when the -- I don't know what the term to call these people -- just say people who went down there and intent on harassing the family. I would
go down usually on a Friday or Saturday for four or five hours when there's the biggest crowds and the most -what's the word I want to use here -- there was just a lot of people down there who was harassing the family that -- when I talk about family, I'm talking about George and Cindy primarily, who didn't deserve it. I'm sure you saw the news where people were
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going down there, you know, with threats and, you know, just wasn't -- just wasn't right. Q The cell phone you have today, is that the
same cell phone number you had -A Q A Q A Yes, sir. -- last year? I've had the same one for years, yes, sir. Have you ever had another cell phone? I've had three on the same account but I've
only used the one. Q A Q You have three different numbers? Not anymore, no. When was the last time you got rid -- you had
three numbers at one time? A Uh-huh, yeah, one for my wife and one for
my -- one for my child. Q And with the same -- if I was to subpoena your
cell phone records, there is only one number you've had for the last two years? A Q this. The one that I've used, yes, sir. Yes, sir. All right. Let me get back to A week went by before
I'm trying to figure out.
you saw Dominic and -A No, no. Actually, it was probably several
weeks before I actually met Dominic, but I think I -- I
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think I talked to him on the phone a few times. Q A What did you-all talk about? Primarily just -- gosh. Just basically if I
was going down, you know, just -- if I was going to go down like on a Friday, Saturday, what time I was going to be there. You know, couple times he told me he has other I never met anybody down there, as Not much really. I
people down there.
far as I know that he had down there.
He asked when I was going to be down there. said I'd be down there. He said -- the one time I went
down there, he was down there -- he asked me to come down, I think, like 5:30, 6:00, that time slot and that was the first time I met him. That was like a few weeks
after that initial contact with the Anthonys. And we met and we just talked, just -- just PI talk basically, or just general information. Q A Q week? A Q A Q A I think it was the following Friday. That's a yes? Yes. And the following Friday you said? Yes, sir. Let's talk you go down there on a Saturday. Uh-huh. Is it your testimony you went back the next
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Q
And what made you go back over to the Anthony
house that following Friday? A The same thing they said earlier. You watch
news reports and you see people trying to pull them out of the house, trying to pull them off the driveway. People don't deserve that kind of treatment. You know,
and if I can go down there, stand between, you know, somebody who's doing that and the Anthonys, then, you know, then I'll do it. Q there? A Q down there? A Q A Q Didn't need to, no. So that's a no? That's a no. And so you decided to go down there to -- did You Didn't need to. But did you have a weapon on you when you were And I did it.
Did you carry a weapon when you went down
you ever see them being pulled out of the house? mentioned they were being pulled out of -A
Not out of the house, on the street, the
driveway, let's see. Q People were physically pulling the Anthonys,
touching the Anthonys and pulling them into the street? A Sure.
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Q A
Wow? And when you see George reacting to it. I
mean there, was even -- there were even screens I think where Cindy went and got a baseball bat or got a baseball bat. If people feel that threatened, you know there is a
problem. Q Did George know your name by the time you got Did he say, hey --
back the second time? A
That's a question you'll have to ask George.
I can't answer for him. Q A You don't remember him saying your name? I don't know if I ever remember him saying my
name the whole time I was down there. Q A Q Really? Yeah. Do you think he knew who -- what your name
A Q
Yeah, I think so, sure. Okay. Now, so you went down there that
following Friday night? A Q Early evening we'll say. And so is it your testimony you were there for
four or five hours? A Yeah, usually -- usually go down 5:00 or 6:00. You know, there
Depends when the crowds would leave.
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were -- I mean, there were -- sometimes there would be 10:00 people would be, you know, they'd be gone by that time. later. Q And your testimony is your motivation was to Sometimes it would be 11:00. Once or twice it was
give them some protection? A Q Support, protection, if they need it, yeah. When you were down there, would you speak to Did you
the Anthonys that night -- that Friday night? speak to George or Cindy? A I don't think I saw them.
I would see them
when they came in or went out. when they came out, certainly.
I mean, I spoke to them When they had the vigils,
I was there and spoke to them, okay. Q And then when -- after that Friday, when was
the next time you went down there? A Q The next day, Saturday. So you went back home and then drove back the
next day Saturday? A Q A Q Sure. You say sure as like -Yes, sir. No, but you say sure like, of course. I mean,
why'd you go back the next day? A For same reason I was there the first day.
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Q A Q A
Support? Yes, sir. And how long were threw that day? Again, it would vary. You know, it might have I
been two or three hours, might have been four hours. mean, I didn't keep a record. Q A Q Of course not. Nothing like that. Of course not.
What did you do -- what would
you do all day that Saturday down there three, four hours? A It depends. I might have been working a case
earlier in the day. Q family? I'm talking about when you were Anthony When you were at the home, what would do you
that Saturday? A I would stand out in front of the house and
basically keep people from -- I don't know if you ever went down there, but people would throw stuff at the house. They'd shine bright lights in the house.
They'd -- it's just a pretty unruly group of people, you know, for the most part. Just -Q A What was your role down there? Just keep people from going into the house or, I didn't speak to anybody.
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you know -Q house? A Q A Q house? A How'd I stop them? The people for the most You had There had been, yeah. And did you have to get physical with them? No, I didn't have to. How would you stop them from storming the So there were people trying to storm the
part, they were rude but they weren't physical.
a few people -- I mean, there were people who, you know, even police reports of people trying to break in the house, I think, late at night or throwing stuff at the garage. Q I guess you felt that your presence
intimidated them not to do what they -A Yeah, you know, people come up. They want to I mean,
go get close to the house, get pictures taken.
not everybody was rude or, you know, some people were just curious. Q back? And then you would say, what, back up? Slow down? How'd you stop them? Just your Get
physical presentation? A Pretty much, pretty much. The only time --
the only time there was any really kind of altercation
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was the few times they had the vigils because they would have people who would come to the vigil and then there would be people on the other side of the street, you know, saying really uncouth remarks, we'll say, and just pretty nasty. Q could you? A No, no, no, but they had the vigil and George I was There is nothing you can do to stop that,
and Cindy would say we've got to think positive.
just there just to make sure that nobody, you know, attempted to harm the family. Q Okay. That's all.
When was the next time you came to the
Anthony home? A weekend. I went down several weekends but not every When I say weekends, usually Friday and
Saturday because, again, that's usually when the -- was the most unruly people were there, I guess. Q Were you working other cases during this
period of time? A Q Probably. I'm saying probably. Yeah.
And so class action would have a record of
those cases that you were working? A Q Sure. How much time elapsed from the time you first
went down there on that Friday night to the first time
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you physically met Dominic Casey? A guess. I'm going to guess -- again, it's just a I'm going to guess three weeks. Say three
weekends, possibly on the third or fourth weekend. Q A Is this August or September? It was either the last week in August or it
would probably be the first -- probably -- probability August, probably the last week in August maybe -- yeah, probably the last week in August. Q During this whole period of time, had you been
having conversations with Dominic Casey before you physically met him other than those first couple that first week? A Just -- just phone conversations, just -- and I think there is
again, are you going down this weekend? going to be a lot of people there. Q
Pretty much it.
Now, was it your understanding that he was
being paid by the Anthonys? A At that time, I didn't know anything about
Dominic, you know, during that period of time. Q A Do you know -He had been hired by them. I didn't know
anything -- I don't ask people how much money you make, who's paying you. Q That's none of my business.
But your understanding was -- you were doing
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volunteer work? A Q Uh-huh. Correct? But your understanding was he was a
paid private investigator? A Q A Q I understand that he had been hired by them. And when you're hired, you're paid, hopefully? Well, hopefully. What's your relationship with Dominic -- we'll
get more -- are you and Dominic friends today? A I have nothing to say about Dominic. I think
he was probably -- probably a pretty good investigator. I don't know what else to say. Q A Q A But are you-all friends? We were never -- we were associates. When's the last time you talked to him? Gosh, either late December or -- let me think.
Sometime in December. Q A Q A Q A So you haven't spoke to him all this year? All this year, no, no. 2009? Yes, sir. Is there a reason for that? Yeah, as far as -- yeah, there's -- you know, I never worked for him.
yeah, I don't go down there. Why -- there's nothing to say.
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Q
So you-all didn't build up any kind of
friendship where you'd call him up and say, hey, buddy, how ya doing? A No, no. The only time -- we never worked any
cases together.
We spent time at the house together, and
then subsequently at the Ritz Carlton, you know, later, with George and Cindy. Q All right. When you finally met with -- with
Dominic, was it a planned meeting or a happen chance meeting? A Q A It was planned. It was planned.
And who planned it? Well, he just -- I don't know if I called him He just said he was going to be down
or Lee called me.
there that particular evening and we would get to meet. I said, okay, that's great. there. Q A Q A Q A Where'd you meet? He was at the house already. Did you go inside the house? Not that night, no. Where you-all talk that first night? Outside the house. We primarily stayed in It was I went down there and he was
front of the house, you know, sidewalk area. actually a lot of times in the driveway.
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Q A Q A
What'd you-all talk about? Family, friends, cases pretty much. Did you discuss this case? Did we discuss this case? Uhm, he had told me
about some interviews he had had with some of the characters or principals in the case, I guess. Q A Who? He told me he had talked to, I think, Tony
Lazzaro and -Q A Who is Tony Lazzaro? Just one of the people -- one of Casey's
ex-boyfriends, I believe. Q A Okay. And just, you know, that group of people that Again, I can't verify he did this.
you've seen on TV.
You know, he told me he talked to them. Q A Of course. Yeah. And another people, you know, in the
Q
Did you talk to him about, you know, what he
thought had happened? A Q A Did I ask him? Oh, yeah, yeah.
What'd he think happened? I think that's probably -- that's probably a
question you should probably ask him because it --
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Q A
I'm asking -- I'm asking --- because I think it probably changed -Initially I think he told me -I think initially he You
well, actually, okay.
again, going back six months or so.
thought that -- he believed -- he believed Casey.
know, he claims he was looking, you know, he was looking for Caylee and he believed she was alive and he was tracking down leads and, you know, and that was, you know. Q A Q Does he believe Casey today? Again, that I don't know. You said then -- when you answered that
question, you said then he believed Casey -A Q A Uh-huh. -- as in as if today -In the past. Today I wouldn't know because I When I say ten, I'm talking six
haven't talked to him. months ago. Q
Was there ever a time during the whole time
you were with him he ever said you to, you know, Casey's lying? A Well, I mean, we had talked about, you know,
the conversation she had with the police on the first day, you know, going out to Universal and that sort of thing, you know. I mean, it's okay just she lied, you
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know. Q this -A Q You know. -- this girl is involved in the disappearance Did you-all ever say to each other, okay,
of her child? A No. I think truthfully that he actually
believed that Caylee was alive up till a certain time. Q A When do you think he stopped believing that? I can only speak for the day that he told me
that we were going to be looking for her body in the wooded area. Q A Q outside. A Q services? A Q A Q Well, that -- I'd done that previously. Did you say it again? No. Wouldn't -- wouldn't have to. Uh-huh. Did you then say I'm here to offer my Okay. Okay. So you -- you had this conversation with him And we'll get to that in a minute.
Were you hoping that he was going to take you
up on that offer? A He already had.
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Q A
But you hadn't done anything. Let's do this again. Okay. I had been going
down there for a couple weekends, two or three weekends. Q A -- oh? And then the third or fourth weekend I went Okay?
down, he was there. Q Okay.
But I'm talking about in the role of a
private investigator. A Q A Q A I didn't work as a private investigator. Okay. Your whole role here was --
Private citizen down there. Okay. And did he ask you to do anything?
Just basically, you know, keep the people away
from the Anthonys and the house. Q A Okay. And then --
And take turn go get food, you know, things
like that, of course. Q inside? A Q A certainly. No, no. You just said take turns getting food. I mean sometimes, you know, we're going to eat Just why don't you go get a pizza, get some Would you run and get food for everybody
food somewhere and we share. Q For our?
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A Q A Q in the car? A park there. Q A Q A Q A Q
For ourselves. Who's ourselves? Dominic and myself. Did you-all Pete out in front of the house or
Usually he had his truck parked there and he'd
Parked where? In the driveway. Was he allowed in the home? Sure. Were you allowed in the home? I've been in the home. So that night was the first night you met him.
It's either a Saturday or Friday in August. A Q A August. Q A next day. Q A Okay. Did you come back the next day? I'm pretty sure it was Friday. In August or September? Yeah, early September but probably late
If that was a Friday, I probably came back the If it's a Saturday, I probably did not. And same -- same routine the next day? Well, again, I'll say it again. If it was a
Friday, I'd come back the next day.
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Q A Q
Yes, sir. If it was Saturday, I probably would not. How many times do you think in this whole
process that you drove from your home to the Anthony house? A 30 times. Q A Q A Q A Q A Wow. Maybe 30 times. Okay. And that was from July until -Oh, gosh. I think if I take August -- maybe
July or August. Yes, sir. Until when?
Until November. Okay. No, no. Let's talk about -Let's back up. Let me back that up.
There were several -- there were some weeks, of course, I didn't go down there. Okay? When -- when Casey went
back to -- was reincarcerated, the crowds pretty much dwindled. So, you know, when she was incarcerated, I
wasn't down there for the most part. I'm trying a better way to put it. It
probably wasn't that many times so I was counting the number of weeks times two so it probably wasn't that many. Q Have you ever met Casey?
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A Q A
No. You hesitated there for a minute. Why?
Well, I was just something -- because I was at
the house when she was out of the jail and I've been in the house but not when Casey was there. Q A Q So you've never met Casey? Never. When was the last time you were at the Anthony
A
December the -- gosh, let me think.
December
the 14th, I think, it was. Q A And for what purposes? I had driven them back from -- from church to
the house that day. Q A Q A Q A Q A They went to church service? Yes, sir. Did you go to church with them? I was at the church, yes. So you went to church with them? I went to church with them. Okay. And where was that church?
The -- I believe it was called Eastside
Baptist Church. Q And what brought you to the home on December
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A house. Q
Driving them from the church back to the
So you just -- you were the volunteering to be
their driver? A Well, I'd been with them from the -- from
December 19 when they first found Caylee. Q A Were they unable to drive? Were they unable to drive? You're talking
about physically unable to drive? Q driving. church? A Because we had left the hotel. I'd spent a I don't know. I don't know why you were
I don't understand why you were driving them to
couple days with them at the hotel.
And we had left the
hotel and then went to church and then to the house. Q A Q A Q A Q And so that's the last time you were there? At the house, yes, sir. Why have you never been back to the house? There's no reason to. Because there's no crowds and -Yeah, pretty much. When was the last time you had any contact,
conversation with George or Cindy Anthony? A Q Probably -- probably sometime in January. Who'd you talk to?
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A Q A
Cindy. What'd you-all talk about? Just -- what'd we talk about? Just called She asked about
and -- gosh, just how each were doing. my little boy. information. Q A Q A Did you talk about the case? No, sir, not at all. Who called who?
She asked -- just basic -- just general
She had called and left me a message.
She
called and left me a voice message and also a text message. Q A Q A Q A Q What did the text message say? Just basically -- I think just to contact her. She asked you to call her? Uh-huh. That's a yes? Yes, sir, sorry. And so you called her and then she just wanted
to have small talk with you? A Q A Q A Yeah, pretty much. Did you find that odd? No. Were you all friends by this time? We were friends? Yeah, I would think so. I
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would hope so. Q A Were you friendlier with her or with George? Well, uhm, I don't know about -- I guess -Probably
I'm not sure who I had more interaction with. about I would say equal. Q
And why have you had no more communication
since January with the family? A Q A Q Distance where I live. But you still have the cell phone? Uh-huh. Do you know why you haven't spoken to them Has there been a falling out between
since January 14th? you and the family? A Q A Q
A falling out is described as? Disagreement, fight, argument. I've had no fight, no argument with anybody. Is there a reason you haven't had any
communication by phone with the Anthonys since January 14th? A completed. You know, the purpose I went down there was You know, there's no more crowds. There was
nothing for me to do down there.
These people were --
remember, these people were going through a lot. Q A Of course. You know.
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Q
And -- now, let's go back to Dominic Casey.
You continue to go down only on the weekends, Fridays and Saturdays? A Q Uh-huh. You were never down there on a Monday,
Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday? A I may have been down there on a few -- I may
have been down there a couple Sundays because I think that's when they had the vigils. Q down there? A Q A Q shopping. A Right. You're out doing the private eye stuff? Or whatever, yeah. Relaxing, shopping. Going to dinner, shopping. You keep talking about But Monday, Tuesday Wednesday you're never
Are you a big shopper? If I big shopper? If I have money I'll go
shopping like anybody else. Q Now, but it's safe to say that from the time
you first went down there, you never went down on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday? A Went down there on a Thursday, December the
Q A
For why? That was the day they found Caylee's body in
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the -- in the wooded area, and I didn't remember if Dominic had called -- I think Dominic had called me first or I had heard it on the news that they had found the remains of a young child in the area. And, you know,
Dominic and I had made contact and he asked me to come down and meet him at a site in Orlando, which I did. Q But other than that date, and we'll come back
to that date, other than that date, that's the only -that's the only -A Yeah, I don't think -- I don't -- I don't
specifically remember any Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you know, weekday. Q I understand. Now, during the time that you
first met Dominic Casey, how much time did you interact with him? A Well, like I said before, you know, three,
four hours a night for the nights that he was -- excuse me -- nice that he was there. Q So you-all were just kind of hanging out in
the truck eating pizza? A Q A Q A I didn't say we were hanging out in the truck. Hanging out outside? Hanging out outside -I'm from Kentucky -We were there.
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Q A Q the house? A Q A Q A Q A Q
-- so hanging out, we use that. You hang out, we were there. You were there. All right. But all outside
Yeah, at that time, yeah. Would he ever go in and leave you outside? Yes. Did you want to go in? No. Weren't you curious? I'd been -- I'd been in the house before. Before you went in the first time, were you
curious to go in that house? A No, no. I mean, they already showed the house You know, why?
on television. Q
I don't have to.
Being in a house is different than, you know,
a house on television. A Q house? A Oh, gosh. Uhm -- oh, do you know what? I I've been in a lot of houses. Okay. When was the first time you went in the
did -- yeah. Wednesday.
I did go down there, I think, one George and I had had a conversation outside,
and he just mentioned he liked a particular dessert and my wife ended up making for it. He hadn't had it in 20
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years and I ended up taking it down the day before his birthday. I think his birthday was on Thursday and I And I went in the house,
think I went down on Wednesday.
gave it to Cindy and left after, you know, a short period. Q house? A Q A Q A Q A Q I think so. So the dessert got you in the house? It got me in the house, yeah. What was the dessert? Bread pudding. Bread pudding? Yeah, with raisins. There was raisins. So you decided to make Was that the first time you'd ever been in the
George a bread putting? A My wife did, yeah. She had spoke -- she had
spoke to him on the phone earlier and she had called me and George asked to speak to her and just said some nice things -- said some nice things to her about me, which was nice. Q Very nice. So you showed up with the bread
pudding on a Wednesday? A Q Yeah. And now --
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A Q
I'm pretty sure it's Wednesday. Now finally the door's open and you're inside
the house with the bread pudding? A Q A Thursday. Okay. So that's the first time. I'll say it one more time. When was that? A Wednesday or
I think it was the day before George's
birthday, whenever that was. Q A Q A This is in September or October? Again, whatever -You don't remember what month? No, no. Probably -- probably October maybe.
Again, that's just a guess. Q A So the first -Yeah, no. Actually, no. Actually, it had to
have been earlier than that. October. Q
It hadn't been before
I don't think the date. When you got in there with the bread pudding,
how long were you in the house? A If I knew I was going to be asked these
questions, I would have kept a record, but probably 15, 20 minutes maybe, maybe a little bit longer, but probably 20 minutes maybe. Q Were you kind of curious looking around in
there and seeing --
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A Q
No. -- you know, here's where they live and here's
where Casey was and here's where Caylee was? A Q No, nope. Because you're a pro and seen one house,
you've seen it house? A Q It's a house, you know. What you-all talk about that night when you
brought the bread pudding? A kitchen. She never tried it. She tried it. We took it out in the We went to the
She liked it.
living room after a little while, sat down, watched a show on television for a few minutes and then we said good night and I left. Q A Q That was it? Uh-huh. Okay. No big deal. Now how many times do you think you
were physically with Dominic Casey? A think. I guess. Oh, gosh. Then I'd have to -- well, let me Three -- 20 some odd times,
Physically with him.
Again, I'm just figuring Friday and Saturday
for, excuse me, like eight or ten weeks and then a couple days at the hotel and then two days in November. Q A Did he ever ask you to do anything? Did he ever ask me to do anything? Yeah.
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Q A
What did he ask you to do? Asked me to go with him -- asked me to go with
him to find Caylee's body. Q anything? A Q A Yeah, actually. Okay. Other than -- well, let me rephrase that. Other than, you know, are you coming down? We'd like to have you come down this weekend. There are Is that the first time he ever asked you to do
a lot of people here, just general, you know, like I mentioned earlier. Q But he never asked you to do any investigation
A Q A Q A Q
Oh, no, sir. No? No, sir. Until you-all went to look for the body? Yes, sir. Okay. And was it your understanding -- did he I'm being paid
ever tell you I'm being paid for this? for this? A
He told me -- let me think how I'm going to He just told me that he had invested a lot
phrase this.
of time and money into it himself and he hasn't received
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any funds during the time I knew him. Q funds? A Q Not to my knowledge. I'm going to end here and let him change tapes You have been -- on December 18th of 2008, To your knowledge, has he ever received any
for a minute.
you were interviewed by Sergeant John Allen; is that correct? A Q A Q A Q you? A To get information -- excuse me -- why we were Yes, sir. And you remember that interview? For the most part. Was he with Orange County Sheriffs? Yes, sir. And what was the purpose of his interview with
in that area on December -- excuse me -- on November 15 and 16. MR. MORGAN: We'll switch tapes. The time is 11:12 a.m.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the record.
(A 4-minute recess was had.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: on record. BY MR. MORGAN: Time is 11:16. We're back
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Q
I want to kind of jump around a little bit in
an interest of time to get you out of here. A Q Thank you. There came a time where the whole crew, you --
and I use the word "crew" loosely -- you, Dominic Casey, some people from ABC news, the Anthonys, José Baez, all ended up at the Ritz Carlton here -A Q A Q Yes, sir. -- in Orlando. Yes, sir. How did it come that you all ended up at the
Ritz Carlton? A Well, as I said earlier, Dominic and I had He asked me to meet him behind Bennigan's I
conversation.
in Orlando near the airport, and so after I met him. said, what's going on? There were a couple police --
there were a couple -- I think it's an Orange County police officer -- anyway, there were several people there and a limousine sitting there. They told me that George
and Cindy were on their way, and for me to follow the limousine. He asked me to help crowd control, you know, And I said that's fine.
things that I do.
So I think I was there 15, 20 minutes maybe and a police van pulled up and they got out. George got
out, put some luggage in the back of the -- anyway,
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that's not important.
They ended up getting in the
limousine and driving out to the Ritz Carlton and I followed them out there. Q Is this when they're coming back after the
body had been found? A Q A Q A Q Yes, sir. They had been in California? Yes, sir. They were on Larry King Live? I don't know where they were. But they got the news that their granddaughter
body had been found so they flew back? A Q They got news the body had been found, yes. And then when they flew back, Dominic asked
you to be there to meet them at the Bennigans? A Q where? A Q there? A Dominic was there. There were two, I think, To the Ritz Carlton Hotel. Who was behind the Bennigans when you got Yes, sir. And then you-all went from the Bennigans to
two police officers in two different vehicles, unmarked vehicles. And there was another young tell low I'd been
introduced to that I don't remember his name that was
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supposed to be a private investigator also. Q Now, what was the scene like that night? You
saw George and Cynthia that night? A Q there? A No. I was there before the limo -- limo was George and Cindy arrived, you Yes, sir. And they were in the limousine when you got
there when I got there.
know, with the police and they got out of the police van and got into the limo. Q A Q So the police escorted them from the airport? They were actually in the police van. And then you all decided to kind of caravan
out to the -A Q A Q A Q Yeah, I was to following the limo out there. And you all went to the Ritz? Uh-huh. That was nice. It's a hotel. Yeah. When did you first find out you were
going to the Ritz? A Q A place. When we got there. Pleasant surprise? I've been to hotels before. Yeah, it's a nice
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Q
What day was this?
What day of the week was
A
I believe it was December 11.
I think that
was a Thursday. Q A Q And you-all then went out to the Ritz Carlton? Yes, sir. When you got to the Ritz, who all was there
with your group? A Well, George, Cindy and Dominic were in the I was in my vehicle following them, and we arrived Actually, they had got there before I did By time I got
out there.
because I got caught up in some traffic.
there, George and Cindy and Dominic had gone upstairs to their rooms and then I arrived and talked to Dominic and he met me in the lobby a little bit later. Q And your role -- what did you understand your
role to be at the Ritz? A Basically just same thing, just keep the
Anthonys basically safe and media away. Q A Q A Q Did you carry a gun out there at the Ritz? Didn't need it. Do you ever carry a gun? Don't need it. Are you like a black belt or you got some kind
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A Q A Q something? A
I'm -- I'm handy. Do you have some kind of martial arts or -I've been involved in that, yeah. Do you have a degree in black belt or
Long, long time ago, you're lucky to be able That's someone of
to have a belt that fits, you know.
the things that you have to keep up with. Q were -A Q A Q A Q A Q Pretty much. -- a brawler? When I was young and dumb, yeah. What degree black belt were you? Back in the 70s, early '80s, black belt. Is that why you say you don't need a gun? Yeah, pretty much. Have you ever had to use -- the whole time So your -- you're a physical guy. I mean, you
you're here with this Anthony case, did you ever use your black belt? A Q No, no. How would people know that -- I mean, with all
due respect, you're not an imposing person. A Q I'm just a nice guy. Okay.
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A
You know, at the house people -- you know, you You don't respond to
know, you don't respond to insult. threats.
You know, somebody tries to come up to the You don't want to
house, you say, look, please back off. get yourself in trouble.
If you talk to people nice,
they're going to be nice, for the most part. Q Right. And now that first night at the Ritz
on Thursday, what'd you-all there that Thursday? A I'm not sure what time we got there. I don't
think we got there until, I'm not sure, 5:30, something like that maybe. their room. Like I say, George and Cindy went to We went up
Dominic came down and got me.
to -- in the adjoining room. Q
And then -- you want to -There were
Well, there's an adjoining room.
three rooms you-all had; is that correct? A Q A Q A Q A Q A Yes, sir, three that I know much. Cindy and George had a room? Uh-huh. Dominic had an adjoining room? Uh-huh. That's a yes? Yes, sir. And where was the third room? Was that yours?
No, no, Dominic and I shared a room next door
to the George and Cindy and then there was a third one on
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the fifth floor. Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q Who was in that room? When we got there, nobody. Who was that room for? Michelle Barth. Who's Michelle Barth? She was public relations person. For? I think initially for the Kids Find Network And initially and then what about ultimately? I'm not sure. Why was -- why did Michelle Barth -- why'd
they need a PR person there? A Q You'd have to ask them. Did you wonder? Did that seem funny to you, a
public relations person? A Q A Q room -A Q Actually twice before, I'm sorry. When you-all went up to the adjoining room, Not particularly. Had you met Michelle Barth before? Yes, sir, once before. And when you-all went up to the adjoining
were the doors open so you-all were coming in and out of each other's rooms?
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A Q A Q
You mean between the two rooms? Yeah. No, sir. You never opened -- you-all never interacted
in their room and they came into your room? A Yeah, I went into their room. I'd go into their rooms. They didn't But there is
come into ours. no adjoining -Q A Q right.
There was a wall? Right, right. So you-all were going back and forth. All
Now, what happened on that Thursday night? What -- what'd you-all do that night? A Q A Q Ended up going to dinner. At the Ritz? Yes, sir. Who was paying for all this out here at the
A
It was my understanding that -- what was her Darn it.
Q A Q A
Caitlynn? Yeah, yeah. I think she works for ABC News.
Did you meet Caitlynn from ABC News? Yes, sir.
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Q
And your understanding was that she was paying
for all the rooms? A Q That's what I was told. Had they -- how much money did ABC news -- who I mean, who were they paying for? You,
did they pay?
Dominic, everybody? A You know, I can't speak for ABC news, but I
presume that. Q In the course of your time spent here as a
public citizen volunteering, did you ever come to understand that ABC news had given the Anthonys or José Baez money? A Q A I didn't know that to be a fact, no, sir. Have you heard that? I heard -- I had heard that -- oh, that money
was given to the Anthonys, no, no, sir. Q A To anyone? Uhm, I had heard that money had been given to
the attorney for some individual -- I don't know if it was given to the attorney or to Casey for some videos that was on ABC news. Q A José Baez received money? Yes, sir, I think so. I heard that. I don't
know for sure. Q Hearsay?
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A Q heard? A Q A Q
Yes, sir. Was it 200,000 dollars? Was that number you
200 or 225.
I heard both numbers.
Was paid to José Baez by ABC News? Yes, sir. And what was your understanding that that
money was paid for? A Q A Q A Q A Q Some videotapes that were released. Okay. Again, hearsay. Of course. Who told you that?
Dominic Casey. Pretty good hearsay? Pretty good, you would think. If anybody would know. You-all had dinner
down at the Ritz that night? A Q A Q A Yes, sir. And Caitlynn ordered some appetizers? Uh-huh. And who all was at the dinner that night? Let's see, Caitlynn sought across from me.
Mallory sat next to her. Q A Who's Mallory? Mallory's Lee Anthony's girlfriend, I guess.
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And then Lee and then there was an empty chair and then, again, I was sitting back to wall. Cindy was sitting
next to me and then George and Dominic at the other end. Q Okay. And then Caitlynn, I understand,
ordered some appetizers? A Q A Q A Q A Uh-huh. For the table? Uh-huh. And did Baez ever show up? Yes, sir. When did he show up? Probably about -- probably about halfway
through the meal. Q A him. Q A Okay. And he sat down and started eating too? Did he order some food too? I think something had already been ordered for
I think pretty soon after he got there, some He didn't say very long. Did
food was brought to him. Q
And what did you do after that night?
you-all have any conversation? at the dinner? A
I mean, what took place
Just -- what took place at the dinner?
Just
lighted conversation actually. Q You didn't talk about the case?
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A Q A Q A
No, sir. Or discovery of the body? No, sir. It was -No, nothing at all like that. It was just,
you know, two sentences. Q A
Nobody brought it up.
How long were you-all at the Ritz? Friday, Saturday -- I'm sorry. Thursday
night, Friday night and Saturday night and Sunday we left at -- well, in time for church. church. Q What were you-all doing all the time? Did As I say, I took them to
you-all go pool side? A No, no. I'm not aware of anybody going pool
Q
Didn't you take a picture of somebody at the
A Q A Q A Q A
No. You don't remember taking a picture -Of somebody at the pool? Yeah. No. Did you-all ever go to the pool? No. You're probably referring to some
pictures that I took from the window of the room I had
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but not of anybody at the pool, no, sir. Q So you don't remember telling the officer
about taking some pictures around the pool? A Q No, I never said that. So if it was transcribed that way, it would be
just an error? A Q Yeah. We never went to the pool.
On Thursday night I guess dinner's over and
you go to bed? A Q A No, no. What happened Thursday? Mr. and Mrs. Anthony went to their room.
Well, prior to that, an attorney had come down and went into the room and spoke with the Anthonys. bodyguard with him. dinner. Then after dinner, Mr. and Mrs. Anthony went to their room. I stayed in the hall, you know, in the And I did end up doing He left. He had a
This is before we went to
general area of the room. something.
Oh, I think I went -- I think I was in the
lobby area, and then I got a phone call and it was Dominic asking me to come outside, to meet him outside the hotel. Q A To do what? He didn't tell me at the time.
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Q A
When you got down there, what was it? Subsequently I went outside and he and
Mrs. Anthony were sitting outside, you know, on one side of the building and asked me to come over and they gave me the keys to the house and asked me to go lock up the house once the -- the FBI and Orange County were done searching. Q A Q A Q A Q A Q And you went and did that? Yes, sir. When you got there, were the police gone? No, they were still there. So you waited for them to leave? Yes, sir. Locked the door and then left? Yeah. Did you conduct your own search after they
left to kind of check -A Q by now? A Q A Q A Yes, sir. In every room, Caylee's room? Yes. And then what happened on Friday at the Ritz? Let me think. I had gone back -- let me think No, no, no. You've been through that whole house I guess
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here.
I had -- let me see.
I had gone back to the house
to basically do a little bit of straightening up before the Anthonys came back. Went back to the hotel. I think
at the time I picked up George and Cindy, we took them back to the house, and they got some fresh clothes and then took them again -- let's see. of get the sequence here, you know. But anyway, I ended up going to Mr. Conway's offices for the -- for the family to be fingerprinted. Q Fingerprinted for what? Why were they Then we went -- kind
fingerprinted? A Q You'd have to ask the FBI. Did you know why they -- as a professional,
did you know why they were being fingerprinted? A To compare with prints that may be at the
crime scene. Q Okay. And they were fingerprinted at the
Conway's office? A Q A Q Yes, sir. Did you take them there? Yes, sir. What'd they say about that, being Did you hear them? What'd they say? Not a whole lot
fingerprinted? A
Just -- what'd they say?
except -- really not a whole lot.
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Q A
Who all was fingerprinted? Well, Mr. -- Dominic and I. Of course, I George got
drove and took George and Cindy out there.
fingerprinted first and then Mrs. Anthony got fingerprinted. Q A Q printed? A Q No, sir, not that I'm aware of. Those are the only three people that got Had Lee already been fingerprinted? He showed up later and got fingerprinted. Was Zenaida Gonzalez there to be finger
fingerprinted? A Q Yes, sir, that I'm aware of. Do you know who the father of Caylee Anthony
A Q
No, sir. Now, we had a deposition here and I asked Lee
and he refused to answer. A Q I know. I saw it.
Why do you think -- have you had any
discussion with anyone about who the father of Caylee Anthony is? A Q father is? Just -- just Dominic. What does he think? Who does he think the
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A Q A
He thinks it's Jesse Grund. He thinks the father is Jesse Grund? I mean, that's what he had mentioned in the
conversation. Q A Q Why does he think that? You'd have to ask him that. Did he tell you that Cindy or George told him
A Q
No, sir. Okay. Has Jesse Grund's DNA ever been taken,
to your knowledge? A Q I don't know. When did he tell you he thought Jesse Grund
was the father? A Q Oh, gosh. September, October, you know.
Have you ever had a conversation with Cindy or
George about who the father is? A Q No, sir. Okay. Do you have a -- do you have a theory
as a professional private investigator who may be the father? A Q A I don't work on theories, you know. But you have hunches as a pro. What --
I did not do an investigation, so I
wouldn't -- I wouldn't want to venture a guess because I
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didn't do an investigation. Q So you didn't -- as a private investigator, if
you were to thought to head off a track to figure out who the father was, what track would you tell me to head down? A Well, of course, DNA would be -- that's the
most obvious thing. Q A Q Okay. Did you ever meet Jesse Grund?
No, sir. Now, the Friday ends. They're fingerprinted.
Lee comes later.
Are you and Dominic talking about the
case on this Friday? A Q No, no. Has Dominic ever said to you, I believe that
Casey has something to do with the disappearance and death of Caylee? A Q Truthfully, no. He's never said that.
Has he ever led you to believe that that's
what he believes? A Q A Q No, I don't think so. Do you believe that? Believe? That Casey Anthony had something to do with
the disappearance and death of her daughter? A Just put me on the spot here, John.
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Q
You're -- I can tell by talking to you, you're
a seasoned, very wiley professional private investigator, and I'd love to hear what your conclusions have been. A Q A Q I think it's a high probability. What do you think happened? What I think happened really doesn't -Well, it could tell me -- it could help me
help Zenaida, so, you know, I've been, you know, very impressed by you today. A I would think -- I would hope, you know, There are several
certainly it's a tragedy, you know.
tragedies involved here, but I would, you know, hope that there was not a murder. I would hope that there was an
accident, that somebody panicked, didn't know what to do, and, you know, went from there. Q A Q A Q A Is that what you think happened? Not knowing Casey -Yeah. -- you know, personally -Yeah. -- I really can't make a judgment. If I had
known her prior to all this -Q But it's your best guess that she had
something to do with the death of her child? A I would -- I would hope an accident.
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Q accident? A Q
Do you think chloroform was involved in the
I wouldn't know. And so your belief, your hunch, as a private
investigator, is there was an accident and then a cover up? A Q A Oh, I didn't say it was a cover up. An accident and then -Somebody panicked and didn't know what to do
and then it just snow balled from there. Q A are people. Q How much interaction did you have in Now -I mean, there are as many theories as there
conversation with George and Cindy up there at the Ritz? A Pretty decent amount. More so with George, I
think, than Cindy. Q In the whole time -- what happened on -- let What happened on -- so Friday -- you
me ask you this.
come on back to the Ritz on Friday after the finger printing? A When we left the finger printing, we had gone
back to the -- during the day earlier in the day, I forgot to mention that I took Dominic out to his house to pick up his vehicle and we brought his vehicle back to
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the east side Baptist church and left it there.
And then
after the finger printing, we went to Dominic's vehicle and Cindy rode with Dominic to the hotel and George rode with me. Q out there? A Just -Q A Q A Q A What was his mental state? I didn't -What was his mental state? Just really stressed. Understandable. Moody -- not a bad moody, just a depressed, Just, you know -Just -- just -- nothing about the case. What did you and George talk about on the way
you know, depressed, I guess, would be the term. Q Did -- so you go back to the hotel. More food and -I had taken -- I took George back What
happens at the hotel? A Oh, no, no.
to the hotel. Q evening? A Q hotel? A No. I was done. Did you see Dominic any more up there at the Okay. And then what? Were you done for the
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Q A Q producer? A Q A Q
Was ABC News producer running around? I didn't see anybody. When was the last time you saw the ABC
I think at dinner. Thursday night? Yes, sir. So she comes and I guess swipes the black card
and leaves town? A Again, you'd have to ask her. I'm sorry. I
saw her -- I think I saw her the next morning also just in the hallway. Q Saturday? A go back. Let me think. I think I had left -- I have to And then Saturday comes. What happens on
I think I had left late Friday to go home and
spend some time with my son and then I came back late Saturday evening, yeah. Q A Q A Q So you weren't with them during the day? Not during the day, no. They're still at the Ritz? Yes, sir. What are they doing out there? Just sort of
hanging out? A Well, the time I was there, except for the
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time they spent with George, you though, down when he went down for brunch, they stayed in their room. Q A Q A Why didn't they go home? Why didn't they go home? After you locked it up on Thursday night? Well, let's see, there were -- I had gone to Again, the media was there.
the house a couple times. It was like -Q the Ritz? A
Did the media not know that you-all were at
Oh, no, I'm sure they know.
Matter I fact I
know they knew because somebody did show up. Q A Q But they're not allowed in the Ritz? They showed up and they were in the Ritz. But why were you-all out there at the Ritz
when the house -- when the house was available? A Only thing I can tell you is I was asked to
provide services out there and I did. Q But do you know why they stayed at the Ritz
after their house had been secured or -A I think first of all the media circus in front
of their house. Q A Q Kind of relaxing? Yeah, I think so. So Friday -- Saturday night you go back to the
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Ritz. A
Were you sleeping in the room those nights? Friday night I was up all night because, I think -- I think I
again, I went out to the house.
left the Ritz at 12:30, 1:00 at night, went out to the house. Waited probably 45 minutes or so, you know, while
the FBI and police were finishing up their search. Q A Q Is this Saturday? No, this is the first night. First night. Okay. How many nights did you
sleep out there at the Ritz? A I think just -- let's see, Thursday night we And I think -- I think just Thursday and
were out there.
Saturday because -- I have to -- one second. Q Ritz? A Q A Saturday, yeah. And what did you do that night? Just spoke with Dominic for a while, then We went in George Then we left I took them to But Saturday you come back that night to the
Sunday morning we went to breakfast. and Cindy's room.
They had room service.
from there and went from there to church. the church and then to the house. Q
The whole time you were with -- the whole time
leading up to this weekend -- I'll call it the weekend at the Ritz, leading up to the weekend at the Ritz, the
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whole time that you were with Cindy and George Anthony, did they ever tell you what they think happened to Caylee? A Q No, sir. Did Dominic ever tell you what he thought
happened to Caylee? A Again, he's -- well, like I say, up until
November the 15th, I was under the impression that he thought she was still alive. Q Now, the whole time you were out there, you
never heard them say anything about Zenaida Gonzalez, did you? A Q No, sir. No, sir, I didn't.
And you're out there helping Dominic, and you
never heard Dominic say anything about Zenaida Gonzalez? A Q No, I didn't say that. Did you ever hear Dominic say anything about
Zenaida Gonzalez? A Q Yes, sir. When is the first time he said something about
Zenaida Gonzalez? A September. Q A He said -- what did he say to you? Just basically that he had checked out the Oh, my gosh. Probably -- probably sometime in
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name Zenaida Gonzalez and there were several in the area. Q Gonzalez? A Yes, sir, and that there were several -That he had checked out the name Zenaida
several in the Orlando area or Florida, I think, he said. Q Okay. And what did he tell you his -- so I
guess he was in hot pursuit of Zenaida Gonzalez then? A Q be? I would imagine. Okay. What did you understand his pursuit to
I mean, what was he doing to find Zenaida Gonzalez? A Q I truly don't know what he did. What did he say -- what made him tell you
about Zenaida Gonzalez? A think. news. Q But the whole time that you were with the Just whatever name -- again, the time, I don't I'm guessing September. Just that it was in the
Anthony family, you never heard one of them mention the baby-sitter? A Q A Q No, sir. You never heard them mention Zenaida Gonzalez? No, sir. Did that seem -- I'm probably asking a
question I know the answer to but because it's so obvious, but did that seem strange to you that the person
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who Casey said had taken the baby, that that name never came up? A Did it seem strange to me? For the hours I No. Like I
was out there and the times I was out there? said, the only -- excuse me.
The only mention of Zenaida
was from Dominic, you know, and the conversation that I had with them was just general, you know, never brought up the case. I didn't do an investigation. I was just
there to provide other services. Q Did George ever tell you that he thought he
and Cindy were probably going to be divorced when this thing was over? A He didn't use the term divorced. I think the
term he used was wouldn't be together. Q A Why? The term he used was he -- this is, again,
going back -- this is at the Ritz Carlton, I believe, that Friday, just stated that I think they both felt had thrown each other or had thrown Casey underneath the bus and just kind of -Q the bus? A I think -- he didn't say -- he didn't say it How did George think he had thrown Casey under
but I'm assuming because of the -Q Let me interrupt. But he did say to you we,
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talking about him and Cindy, we have thrown Casey under the buss? A They thought they had thrown her under the
bus, yes, sir. Q A What did you understand that to mean? Well, having known about, you know, just the
different interviews they had given, you know, about the smells in the car. Q A Evidence? Well, I don't know about evidence, but -- not It's -- it's pretty strong --
evidence so much as indication, indications of -- of a body being in the trunk. Q They even said that to them.
And Cindy was upset that he had said that
about the smell? A Q A Q Well, I didn't hear her say it. But that's your understanding? Yes, sir. And that's what your understanding was that by
George throwing her under the bus? A Q Yeah, yes, sir. What else -- what other things other than
telling the police about the smell do you think that he was referring to by throwing Casey under the bus? A I think that's -- I can't think of anything
else at the time.
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Q A Q A Q
Did he say that to you, that he -That term thrown under the bus? Yeah. Yes, sir. Did he mention that he was sorry that he had
told the police about the smell in the trunk? A Q trunk? A Q No. Well, he said we've thrown her under the bus, No, he never said that. Did you ever talk about the smell in the
you just interpreted that to being the things that he had said to the police -A Q the -That first night at the Ritz, did you ever notice some kind of an interaction between Mr. Baez and the producer from the ABC News that bothered you? A Q A Q A Between -- that bothered me? Yeah. No, not really, not that bothered me. How did they interacted? When Mr. Baez came out, I think he spoke to a Right, yes, sir. -- that pointed to Casey as the abductor and
few people there and then he leaned over and -- Caitlynn
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was sit agriculture cross from me.
And I think it was
just a little kiss on the cheek, just a friendly hello. I mean, nothing inappropriate, if they'd known each other for a time, and I think they had. Q A Q A Q You could tell they knew each other? Yeah, uh-huh, yes, sir. Just the way they interacted? Yes, sir. I want to get to -- the only sometime it's my
understanding this whole time you were acting as a public citizen and guarding the house and guarding the Anthonys and protecting their privacy, the only time up until the time of the Ritz, the only time you were asked to do anything by anyone, whether it be George, Cindy, Lee, Baez or Dominic, was when Dominic called you one day and asked you to come meet him somewhere? A Well, I mean, you know, in conversations with
primarily George like when they would have the vigils outside, you know, he would ask me to invite the people over and just, you know, that sort of thing, someone to light the can Dells, just general. Q But is it safe to say that your involvement as
a volunteer public or private citizen had been limited to coming to the house, using your physical presence, your demeanor, your, you know, good way with people to kind of
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keep peace, you that really had been asked to do nothing other than that? A Q Yeah, yes, sir. Until Dominic Casey called you one day and
said I need your help? A Q Yes, sir. All right. Now, we need to talk about that.
When did he call you? A little. Let's see. We went out there on the 15
15th, I think, was a -- yeah, 15th, I think, was I'm talking about November 15th. I think he
a Saturday.
had called me -- matter of fact I know he called me that Friday. He actually had called me twice. Told me there
was some kind of function going on for George and Cindy and the Kids Find Network in Orlando, asked me to come down, you know, to help just, I guess, you know, just basically it's a meet and greet. big crowd. A few minutes later he called me back to tell me that some blogger had said they were going to come down with baseball bats and bust the place up because he thought I should know that. still be there. I said, no problem. I'll I guess they expected a
He asked me to meet him, I think, I got down there
approximately 8:00 the next morning. right at 8:00.
First time I'd been to the office.
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Q
Did you go the night before to keep the
baseball bats at bay? A Q A No, no. You didn't go? No, no, that was supposed to happen at the That was Friday night he
meet and greet that Saturday. called me. Q A Q A Q A
So he asked you to come down? Yes, sir. So you went down? Uh-huh. And when you got down there, what happened? He got there about 8:15. He asked me to go He says -- he
into the office. said have a seat.
We went into the office. I said what's up?
When you go in the
office, there is like two desks there and, you know, next to each other. other. somber. Q Tell me where you were again when you were I sat at the one chair. He sat at the
He was real somber, which is -- I mean, really
having this conversation. A Q A Q At his office. Where's his office? In Longwood, Florida. What's the name of his company?
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A
D&A Investigation -- yeah, D&A Private
Investigations, I think. Q A Q D&A, what's that stand for? Dominic and Associates. Really. Okay. And so now you're in his
office on that Saturday? A Q A Yes, sir. What time of day was this? Like I say, he got there about 8:15 so by time
we got in there probably about 8:20. Q A Q A And he's real somber? Uh-huh. And what does he say? He says I've got something to tell you. He said, I know where Caylee is. I And
said, what's up?
then there was quiet for a few seconds.
I'm thinking now
that he -- pretty sure that she was alive, and I'm thinking she's alive, this is great. I said, great,
let's go get her or words to that effect. He said we can't -- or no, he didn't say we can't. He said she's dead. You know. First he said I
know where she is first and then after a few seconds he said she's dead. And, you know, we both sat there for, I
don't know, few seconds, and he said we have to go find her.
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Q A had a tip. Q A Q she's dead? A Q A Q
How did he know that she was dead? That you'd have to ask him. Well, he said he
What did he tell you about the tip? Nothing, other than that he had a tip. So he just brings you there. He tells you
Uh-huh. He says I've received a tip? He had told me the tip later. But I'm talking about now. He says I've
received a tip and we need to go find her? A Q the tip? A Q A Q A Q Well, not at that time, no. You didn't ask what the tip was? Not at that time. Okay. You just followed him? Uh-huh. And I'm sure you said, maybe I'm wrong, what's
Well, he actually got in my car. Okay. Did he ever tell you where the tip came
A Q A
No, sir. Never? Never.
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Q
To this date do you know where the tip came
A Q
No, sir. Do you find that -- did you ever ask him where
the tip came -A Oh, yeah, sure. He was on the phone -- I
don't think.
He must have made -- he must have made
numerous phone calls on I'm thinking anywhere from six to ten phone calls, you know, at minimum that particular day. Q A Q A Q A To who? I don't know. He was in your car? Yeah, but he didn't talk to anybody in my car. What did he do when he talked to people? Well, it's on the videotape. He would just -When he first
what do you do when you talk to people. got out of my car -Q A talking. Q What's on the videotape?
When he's talking -- walking through the woods
I'm talking about when he was in your car, he
never had conversations? A Q No, sir, not in my car, no, sir. So you just drove out there with him to go
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find the body? A Q were doing? A Q Uh-huh. And you asked him who did it -- where's the He said I'm not going to tell you? Uh-huh. Is that -- is that what you understood you
tip coming from? A said.
He just said -- I'm trying to remember what he I asked him and he just, I think, on two occasions Just walked away. This is later
he just didn't answer. on during the day. Q A Q
Didn't that irritate you? No. I mean, as a private investigator, this is a
blockbuster day, isn't it? A Well, I think I've learned not to believe
everything Mr. Casey says. Q A Q A Oh, you think he's a liar? I didn't say that. Why don't you believe everything he says? Just heard a lot of stories -- just heard a
lot of stories. Q A Like what? And this is important.
Just -- you know, everybody enhances stories.
Everybody enhances things.
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Q A
Just tell us? He and Mr. Baez had had a run-in or a blow-out He stopped working for him, I guess, And
or whatever.
sometime in September or October over a money issue. then, you know, he would tell me -- it was just
basically, I guess, one story that he told me about that Baez had gotten 225,000 dollars and he was supposed to pay Dominic out of that. funds. Q 225,000 -A Q When Baez got it. -- from ABC that Baez had promised Dominic You know, he never got any
You know, just things along that line. So Dominic told you that when he got the
money and didn't pay him? A He didn't use the term "promise," but he was He expected to be paid.
working for Baez. Q A
And Baez wouldn't pay him? Well, he didn't pay him, I mean, according to
Q and George? A
So Dominic was working for Baez and for Cindy
Well, he worked for Baez up until -- again,
sometime in either -- it's in the -- it's in the information when he was interviewed by Mr -- or Nick savage and John Allen, there is a date there.
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Q A
Right. And then he had some kind of contracts or some
kind of agreements with George and Cindy and he had some kind of agreement with Casey also. Q But tell me why you don't believe everything What were the
Dominic Casey tells you or has told you. stories you heard? A Q A It's important? Yes.
Well, after they had -- after Dominic -And, again, it's in Just basically
again, this is Dominic's story.
the -- it's in one of the interviews.
that Dominic had gone in with Mr. Baez to see Casey while she was incarcerated and that Dominic said that on several occasions that he thought that Mr. Baez had an inappropriate relationship with -- or was trying to have an inappropriate relationship with Casey. And that he
had -- he had warned Baez that he wouldn't tolerate that kind of activity. Q Yeah, tell me about that. There was something
about the inappropriate contact with Baez and Casey, there was something about some liquorish? A Q A Yeah, just one of the stories was that -This is what Dominic told you? Yes, sir.
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Q A
What'd he tell you about this liquorish? Just basically that he had -- I don't know if
he had -- he must have met Baez at the jail and Baez had taken some, again, you know, some is a Dominic story, not my story -Q A Right? That Baez had taken some liquorish out there.
Supposedly here was holes in a Plexiglas, and he put a piece through and he started chewing on one end and she chews on the other end. They were there several hours.
The case wasn't talked about. As they left, they were walking across a yard, and Dominic said to Baez don't say anything. microphones in the area. Okay. There's
And then after they
left, Dominic pretty much said -- he didn't use the term "jacked up." He just told Mr. Baez -- again, he said he
told Mr. Baez that he didn't approve of that behavior and he wasn't going to tolerate it. Q A of assault. He told you that? Yeah, and I'm, you know, take it with a grain He's got an attitude where Mr. Baez over That was pretty much it.
money so you figure you take it with a grain of salt. Q So he sticks the -- he sticks the liquorish
through and he and Casey kind of nibble it until they get to the end?
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A Q Casey? A Q A
Yeah, that's what he said. My God. What agreement did Dominic have with
What agreement?
I didn't read it.
Did he have an agreement with Casey? Yeah, he had -- he had shown me like a stack
of papers like you have there that had Casey's signature in large cursive writing and he also had one with George and Cindy also. police. Q When did he have -- when did he enter the Again, that's in his statement to the
agreement with Casey? A Q A Q A Q A Q I don't know the date. But he showed you an agreement -Yes, sir. -- that he had with Casey? I didn't read it though. Was it to investigate? Again, I didn't read it. Did there ever become a time that you felt
like that Dominic may have been having an inappropriate interaction with Cindy Anthony? A Let's just say I was uncomfortable sometimes
around them. Q Isn't it fair to say that you got a feeling as
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a private investigator trained, that you thought there was a familiarity between the two of them that was, let's say, less than professional? A Q I had that feeling, yes, sir. And describe for me what are those
observations that you made between the two of those two that made you feel this way? A Well, just one time -- matter of fact the
evening that we were -- they were being fingerprinted, like say George got fingerprinted first and then Cindy and then we were waiting for Lee, Mr. Anthony or Dominic was sitting in one chair and Mrs. Anthony was sitting in the other and they were like holding hand and just, you know, doing this kind of thing (indicating). talking about he's her rock. She's
Wasn't for him, she
wouldn't be able to get flew this. Q A Q A He said that to her, I'm your rock? She said that. That was her saying that.
She said you're my rock? Yeah, it was just general conversation. She
said you're my rock. this kind of thing. Q hands? A
Without you couldn't get through
What was George doing while they're holding My God? Like I say, it was uncomfortable. And like I
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said they -Q A And who started rubbing whose arm? It kind of starts out like, you know, you're
holding hands just kind of patting hands doing this kind of thing (indicating). Q A But --
When you saw that, what'd you think? I think Dominic -- I'm thinking -- I'm
thinking you wouldn't be doing that with my wife. Q Yeah. Did you -- did you think that there
was -- as you watch this kind of thing unfarrel these months, did you think there was kind of a romance brewing there? A Q A question. Q A me this -Q A Uncomfortable feeling. -- thoughts. Then after we left there, as I Okay. And the rest of -- you asked me what had given I'm not going to go that far. How far would you go? Well, let me finish the answer to the last
mentioned Dominic had taken his car to the church, left it there. And he asked me to take him back to his car, And then I took George out to --
which I did, you know.
and then he asked for Cindy to ride with him so she got
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in my car and drove with Dominic. the hotel and -Q A And what happened?
I took George out to
Like I said George went in the hotel and I I tried
stayed in the lobby for a long period of time.
calling Dominic several times and he didn't answer his phone but he eventually did call me. Q A Q A Q A Q A Q Who did? Dominic. And where was Dominic? He said he had gotten lost. And who was he with? Cindy. And did your antennas go up as a private eye? Yeah, pretty much. What'd you think was going on? Let's just
cut -- let's just cut to the chase. A Well, I just thought, you know, I found the I don't know why somebody who
hotel in 15, 20 minutes.
lives in this area couldn't find the hotel in the same amount of time. Q Do you think it got to a point in time where
Dominic may have done almost anything for Cindy to help her? A Well, that's a loaded question, but I wouldn't
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say anything, no.
I don't think -- I don't think he have
done anything to break the law, if that's what you're asking. Q A person. know. Right. Like I say, you know, I think Dominic's a good I think he just got caught up in something, you And then subsequently the, you know, the day of
the 15th, all the different answers that he gave about why we were out there, different people he had talked to, I mean, these are things why I think that sometimes he's less than truthful. Q A What did he say? Well, first he was talking to his daughter on
the phone and then talking to a psychic on the phone and then he was talk to a friend of Casey's on the phone. This is all in your reports to the police. Q Did you ever think the tipster could have been
Cindy Anthony? A Q I never thought that, no. Did you ever think that the tip could have
somehow come through Cindy or George? A Q tip. No. Now, let's talk about the day. There's been a
He won't tell you who it is, won't tell you where You drive out to the scene. Where were
it came from.
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you all headed? A Q you? A Oh, to Suburban Drive. And on the way out there, what did he say to What was the conversation? Pretty quiet, just, again, not being from the
area, especially from where he lived, he basically just gave me directions to the site where we're going. Q there -A Q A Q A Q A Uh-huh. -- that you're going to find the body? Un4U7B. He knows whether the body is? That's what he said CK. Did you believe that? I believe that he -- I believe that he thought So it's your understanding as you're going out
he had -- he was always getting tips, hundreds of tips. It was just another tip. Q A came from. Q were -A know. Again, you'd have to ask him because I don't Didn't a lot come from Cindy because they Where did all these tips come from? You'd have to ask him where all these tips
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Q A Q A
So where did you go? I drove down to the Suburban Drive. Where is Suburban Drive? It's, what, two blocks, basically, from the
Anthony house. Q A Q Okay. How many, two blocks?
Approximately, yeah. And did he tell you as you were going there, Did he give you that
we're going to Suburban Drive? street address? A Q Drive? A Q Yeah.
Yeah, he told me -- well, yeah. Where did you think you were going, Suburban
Did he tell you where you were going on
Suburban Drive? A Q Yeah, the wooded area by the school. Had you ever been to the wooded area by the
school before? A I'd been in that neighborhood before because
the house is there, and sometimes when I would drive down there I would go down that road and cut over to their house. Q So you're driving there and he's saying we're
going to Suburban Drive and the body's in a wooded area?
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Did he tell you that? A Q A Q Uh-huh. That's a yes? Yes, sir, sorry. And did you say how did it get there? I mean,
you had to be inquisitive of how it got there or were you asking questions or were you just blindly driving? A question? Q A got there. Yeah. Well, obviously, I didn't have to ask how it Somebody put it there. It certainly didn't Did I ask how it got there? Is that the
get there by myself. here -Q No, no.
I'm not trying to be coy or smart
When you got there to Suburban Drive, You pull on the street. Did you
tell me what happened.
go straight to Suburban Drive from the D&A offices? A Q Yes, sir. So now you're pulling into Suburban Drive, Let's try to be very detailed
tell me what happens. here. A Q A Okay.
Because we've got to be.
This is --
You've got Suburban Drive, drove down to the Came up,
end, made a u-turn town by the school.
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parked -- parked almost directly across from where they found -- eventually found Caylee's remains but on the opposite side of the street. Q A Q A Q A Q A Was he directing where you to go? Uh-huh yes, sir. He said drive down to the end of the street? He said go down, turn around. So you drove down and turned around? Uh-huh. And then did what? Came back up to almost the intersection of the
first street intersection. Q around? A Why did I have to drive down and turn around? Why did you have to drive down and turn
It's a deadend. Q But did you pass the wooded area on the way to
turn around? A Yeah, wooded area is all on the right-hand
side, yes, sir. Q Why didn't you just parked in front of the
wooded area -A Q A Initially? Yeah. I don't think. Like I said I went down,
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turned around, parked the car right near the -- matter of fact right near the fence -- relatively close to where they eventually found the remains. Q Okay. Now, tell me what happened when --
you-all parked the car? A Q A Q A Q A Uh-huh. And you got out? I parked the car. He got out? He got out. What did he tell you when he got out? Well, I think -- again, going back, I think -He got out. I didn't get out, no, sir.
well, first thing he said just wait here.
He got on his phone and I had two cameras in the car. Q A Who did he call? I don't know. If I knew who he called, I'd
probability know who the tip was. Q A Q A Q A Q A Okay. And all of a sudden -You know who the tip is now, don't you? Oh, no, sir. No. I wish I did.
You still didn't know who the tip is? No. Who do you think the tip was? Well, I wouldn't venture a guess.
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Q A Q
No clue? Again, there's no reason to venture a guess. Well, what would your guess be based on the
time -- based on the time you had, if you had to make -as a private investigator, if you had to go in one direction, where would you go first? A For me to put a name out there right now
wouldn't be fair to -Q out there. But this is a privilege -- you can put a name We need to put that name out there for
Zenaida's sake. A Q A Q A Well -- who do I think he was talking to. Cindy? Cindy, Cindy?
I don't think he was talking to Cindy, no. Who? I don't think he was talking to Cindy. I
don't think he was talking to George. Q A Q A Q A Who do you think he was talking to? I think he might -- possibly Lee. Lee Anthony? Possibly. Low probability, possibly.
Why do you think that? I think -- and again, you know, low
probability. Q But you got the bird's eye view?
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A
Yeah, lucky me.
I think because there was an
interview with -- unless I misinterpreted the interview, there is an interview with his attorney who had basically said he had information or, again -- again, I only saw like bits and pieces of the interview with Lee's attorney. And it appeared that he knew more about that particular day or that particular search, okay, than somebody should. He said he had seen the videotape. The
videotape hadn't been released yet, and then he backed up and started backing up maybe I saw the videotape. I didn't see the videotape. just -- just, you know -Q sampled? A recently. Q And what was -- what was the pump of that DNA Oh, they just -- yeah, they just released that Have you ever heard of Lee's DNA has ever been Maybe And
And just based on that.
being released? A According to the news, again, my information
is from the news like everybody else's -Q A Right. -- was I guess to eliminate him as being the
father of Caylee. Q Okay.
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A
I mean, that was on the news, I think, last Again, that's just a wild guess.
Q discovery? A Q
All this is just to help us lead us to our
I understand, but like I say, it's just -Just from your bird's eye perch, that would be Okay. When he got out of the car,
as a professional.
did he tell you to stay in the car? A Yeah, he said wait here, and he got out of the
car and got on the phone. Q Okay. And did he tell you to film him out
A Q the woods? A Q A Q A
No, he didn't tell him to film him out there. But he wanted you to be there when he went in
Uh-huh. That's a yes? Yes, sir. Why? We had -- actually, we did talk about that on Basically, in my career, as a
the way down there.
private investigator, you know, I videotape -- I document everything I do. cases. I document, you know, surveillance
I document everything because if you have to go You
to court just because you say it doesn't make it so.
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know, so you document what you do so, you know, you have to go to court you can validate, you know, what you've done or, you know, what you say you've done. Q So on the way down there, what did he tell you
why he wanted you there? A To help him look for Caylee. And then the
conversation come up basically if we find her, you know, what we would do. And basically it was not touch
anything, contact the police, you know, that sort of thing. MR. MORGAN: Let's change the tape. Time 12:13. We're off the
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: record.
(A 5 minute recess was had.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: on record. BY MR. MORGAN: Q A Q We're back to November 15th. Yes, sir. You were at the crime seen or, excuse me -Time is 12:18. We are back
strike that. We're at the Suburban Drive in the woods. A Q A Yes, sir. He's out of the car? Uh-huh.
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Q
Casey's out of the car, talking to somebody. On the way out there you said you
You're in the car.
believed you'd been brought there because to document what? A Well, again, you know, I always document You
everything I do, you know, like every case I work. know, I work a lot with video. Q
I know that but did he -- did he ask you to do Did he say document this?
anything coming out there? Did he say film this? A
I told him I'm want together document what
we're doing out there so we don't -- you know, that we didn't mess with the crime seen for protection. Q A Q Of course. But it didn't quite work out that way. Why do you think he wanted you there? Did he
ever tell you why he wanted you there? A Q Just to help search for Caylee. But when he got ready to get out of the car,
did you try to get out of the car to help search for Caylee? A Q No, not at that point, no. So he gets out of the car. Why didn't you get
A
Like I say, I think he had said wait here a
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minute or wait here.
Didn't know that was going to be
the spot where we were going to go into the woods or something. Q Did it turn out he pulled you upright to the
exact right spot? A I won't say the exact spot relatively close
but on the opposite side of the street. Q So the tip that he had received pinpointed
this dead on? A Q A Q A Q A Q A Pretty close. Okay. Uh-huh. When he got out, what did he do? Got on the phone. And then what happened? What I did or what he did? What did he do? He spoke on the phone. He had his back to the So he said you wait here. He gets out?
site where they found the remains -- he was facing the opposite way. Spoke on the phone for I guess a minute or
so, and then turned facing my car and then eventually faced the site or towards the site where they eventually found Caylee. And then I had taken one of my cameras,
loaded it and was checking it, you know, so I ran some videotape of him in that area.
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Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A
Did he see you with the videotape? I don't know. You were in the car doing it? Uh-huh. So he didn't ask you to videotape him? Not at that point, no. When did he ask you to videotape him? He knew I was going to videotape. How'd he know? Told him. You told him you were going to videotape? He said, well, yeah, you need to videotape,
you know, words that that effect, yeah. Q See what did he do then as he got into the
A Q woods? A
He didn't get back in the car at the time. So he starts walking -- did he go into the
Not right then.
Like I said, I took my camera I run -- I ran the
I ran a test -- ran a test on it.
videotape for 15, 20 seconds, remind it, make sure it's working that sort of thing. the tape, the color was off. And so then -- so then -- so I changed cameras, put another tape in a different camera, And when you back to look at
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identical camera. see him.
And then when I looked back, I didn't
Just a couple minutes to do this. And so I didn't see him. I waited a few
minutes so I back the car up.
Again, didn't see him.
And then I back the car up I guess about halfway -Q A Q A Q A Where'd you think he was? In the woods. What was he wearing, goulashes -No, no. Weighters? No. He wasn't dressed to do a major search on
the first day, just -Q Did that seem odd to you, you're getting ready
to go into the woods and was he wearing like wing tips? A wearing. Q A But he didn't have -He wasn't wearing gear to go into the woods I don't know what kind of shoes she was
and search certainly. Q Did that seem odd -- as you were out there,
didn't that seem odd to you? A Yeah, but, again, you know, when he said we're
going to the woods, you know, as you realize or what I believe they found her remains relatively close to the road. You know, after hearing that, it kind of made
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sense. Q You think he was told the remains were close
to the road? A Q Yeah, I think so. But he goes -- so he disappears and he's
somewhere in the woods? A Q A car up. Uh-huh. And then what did you do? Again, I waited a minute or two, backed the I guess probably about two-thirds, you know, I back up sat there for a
back towards the school. minute or two.
Then I saw him in the woods. So
At one point he told -- I remember.
anyway, so I videotaped him in the woods on the cell phone again. He came out of the woods and you've seen And then just videotaped him walking,
the tape, I guess.
again, back towards where they eventually found her and then the opposite way. were not videotaped. Okay? Q A Q woods? A You see him. So he's on the phone -In the woods. How do you know he's on the phone in the Now, all the phone calls he made I didn't run the constant tape.
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Q A Q A
You could see him in the woods? Oh, yeah, sure. So he wasn't deep in the woods? No, back maybe five, six feet, wasn't very
Q A Q A
That's not a very thorough search? Well, that's the start. Okay. And then like I say, then he came out and went Okay.
one direction, turned around and went the other direction. It's all in the tape certainly. And then I I said,
eventually got out of the car, went over to him.
okay -- I said what are we doing or what's -- I don't remember the exact terms, just, okay, what are we doing? Where are we looking? And that's the time he told me we
were looking -- he said three flat stones. Q A Q A a line. What did that mean? Well, I'm going to tell you. I'm sorry. He said we're looking for three flat stones in Okay? So we went the general area and then I There were three -- and I'll
think he found them first. use the term pavers. guess, 2 inches. Q He found them?
And they're like 12 by 12 by, I
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A Q A Q
Uh-huh. Did you see them? Yeah, videotaped them. They're on there.
I'm asking a lot of questions I know the How close were the pavers to the edge
answer to as well. of the woods? A
Pretty close.
Five, six feet paper.
Wasn't
in very far because he -- you could just about -- you could actually see them from the road, okay, because when we went back on the second day I actually located them the second time we went back. So anyway, we went in there and searched the immediate area. Q What else do you want me to tell you?
How deep did you ever get into the woods that
A Q A
He went in much further than I did. How many feet? I'm guessing at any given time probably the
most 20 feet. Q A Q Did he have -Maybe a little bit more. Did he have a stick or did he have a staff
A
I don't believe -- I don't remember one on the
first day, but he did on the second day.
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Q A Q
So he's just visually looking? Pretty much, yeah. And the deepest he got into the woods was 20
A Q
Yeah, I think so. Now, the woods, of course, is what? I mean,
how big is the woods? A It's, I guess, what, two or three -- what, two I don't know how deep it goes
or three blocks long. back. Q
So he went directly -- he went really directly
to the pavers, then? A Pretty close, pretty close. I think if you're
facing the woods, I think it's a little bit -- I'm trying to remember. I haven't been back out there since they
found the remains. Q things -A Q A Q A Oh, yeah. Was he ever down with his hands? Yeah. What was he doing? At one pointed turned -- the three pavers, Was he ever reaching down and pulling
there were three and the middle one was broke in half. They were in direct line, not like somebody through them
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there.
Someone had, obviously, intentionally laid them The center was one broken as if somebody
flat like that.
had dropped one on top of it. And he turned them over and I don't remember if he dug down just a little bit but, again, I'm trying to remember. He didn't spend very much time. It seems
to me it was more of a reference point maybe and then search the area. Q I don't remember if --
What kind of area did he search, the I mean, was it limited to a small area?
circumference? A
Went into -- went -- after we went into the
woods and found the pavers and kind of checked that immediate area, went in a little bit further and walked -- I don't remember if it's east, west, north, what, but back towards where they eventually found the remains, you know, headed that direction. Never went in
the other direction, always went -- well, that's not quite true. We did check the other area later. But that day went towards where they eventually did find Caylee. forward? How many feet did he go
I tried to estimate that for officer Allen, and
Mr. Savage or -- investigator savage because you can see I was walking and video taping and, you know, you can't take a full certified in the woods. Q Why?
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A Q A
And I was -- pardon? Why? Because the brush and trees, a lot of debris I was trying to estimate how many steps I
in the area.
had taken in that direction, and -- because like I say with a camera you can tell steps because it's -Q A Right. And I think -- I think I estimated like 10 or
12 steps which, you know, which probably about two and a half feet stride and wouldn't be much more than that because of the wooded area. So maybe 20, 30 feet in the
direction towards where she was finally eventually found. Q Did it ever -- did you ever kind of have a
thought in your mind are we out here trying to build an alibi? Did that thought ever cross your mind like it
probably -- I mean -A No, actually, it didn't. To be honest with
you -- I hate this interview. thought -- God. Q A Q
I think at one point I
I thought he was show boating.
It seemed contrived? Yeah, I thought he was show boating. And describe that. Tell me what you mean by
A have --
I think if you saw the video and I'm sure you
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Q A Q A Q A
Yeah. -- it's almost -Staged? Well, not on my part. Not you. I'm talking about him.
Just -- just finding the three pavers and then
after coming out of the woods -- I'm going to skip over here and he said we have one more location to go to. had been on the phone again, and it wasn't on tape. said we have another location to go to and he called whoever he was talking to and -- I said, we've got another location to go to and he said yeah, so we left there and went to a street relatively close to the area. Okay? And went -- as soon as he got out of the car immediately went to this particular house, again, you've seen it on TV where he went over to some black plastic bags and started cutting them open with some kind of a knife, I'm not sure what kind of knife. And just -- I'm You know, it He He
thinking, you know, why are you doing this? was street strange.
And then they found nothing in those bags and then we went around to the side of the house, and the gate, it was like partly open, and it went back and, again, we went to see what was back there. But
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subsequently found some two by fours laying over again three more pavers right next to the house right in a line, you know, just -Q A know. Perfect. And I thought that was kind of strange, you Search the backyard and went to this area in this
spot where I think there was an air conditioning unit right near by and he moved those pavers. And I think on
the first day -- I think first day, yeah, first day he dug down, I think, with a hand spade or something, again, it's on the video, and didn't find anything. And then we left there. And I don't remember
-- I think after we left that house, I think at that point is when we went to the -- I'm going to call it the meet and greet where we met George and Cindy and -Q Let's not leave the woods yet. It's fair to
say, I'm going to use your words, not mine, that when he was out there being filmed, he was show boating? A Q Yeah, that's the impression I got. Kind of like -- would you describe it kind of
like putting -- I guess showboating means putting on a show? A Well, yeah, but I think it was -- I don't
think it was so much -- I know -- I think you may be insinuating for the defense or something. I think it was
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more for -Q A Q A Q A Q A For what? I hate answering these questions. Yeah, but for what? For Cindy, perhaps. Why? Again, just a thought. Why do you think so? Had to impress people with his -- with his Again, For who?
ability to be a private investigator, I guess. this is all supposition on my part. Q
As a real professional, were you impressed
with his skills as a private investigator? A I'd rather not say, but I think it's not
particularly. Q A Q A Why not? Why not? Yeah. Well, first of all, he never, ever told me
what investigations he'd done other than he had interviewed, you know, some people as I mentioned earlier. Q Did he ever go out to Sawgrass Apartments to
your knowledge? A He said he had.
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Q A
Did he ever go out to Blanchard Park? I don't remember him saying he won't to
Blanchard Park. Q How much time did he spend finding -- looking
for Zenaida Gonzalez? A He didn't tell me. He didn't give me an
amount of time. Q A Q A Q Did you-all ever talk about Zenaida Gonzalez? Just what I told you earlier. One time? He only said it one time, yeah. So here's the person who's got the child and
the chief investigator for the Anthony -A Q Chief private investigator. Chief private investigator for Baez, Anthonys,
Casey Anthony, only mentions to you this whole time one time Zenaida Gonzalez? A Q Yes, sir. Doesn't -- didn't that -- I mean, that had to
seem odd to you? A 14 of them. Well, I mean, you know, he told me there was Again, you know, when he told me this, you
knee, he was -- he believed that Caylee was still alive. Q A But you understand that -Was my impression.
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Q
But you understand that he had been told that
Zenaida Gonzalez took the child from Sawgrass Apartments? A Q The whole world had been told that, yes. So didn't it seem strange to you that the
kidnapper was not the focus of 24 hour around the clock focus? A Q Again, that's something you'd have to ask him. I'm asking you did that seem odd to you that
he only mentioned her name one time yet you're chasing every other lead in America? A Q A Q He's chasing every other lead. Didn't that seem odd to you? Oh, certainly. And where did all these lied that were being
followed coming from Cindy Anthony to him because they were calling her on the help lining? A Q Miami? A there. Q But wasn't that where these tips were coming I don't know anything about physically went I guess, again, you'd have to ask them. And weren't they going to Ohio and Atlanta and
A Q
According to the news, yes, sir. And all these tips were coming to him and he
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was theoretically investigating? A Q woods? A Q A minutes. Q A The first day? Yeah. Probably -- in the woods itself probably 20 Again, just a guess, you know. And then you come out, what happens? Then we went over to the house that I (Nods head.) How long do you think you were there in the
mentioned, you know, searched that for another, I guess, again, another 20 minutes or so. Q A Q A Q A Around the house? Yes, sir. You didn't go in the house? No, sir. And then what happened? Then we left there. Now, I don't remember -I don't remember if
I'd have to look at the tape again.
he went back to the woods that first day, but I think that we left there and went out to the meet and greet. We had supposed to be out there I think at 9:00, 9:30. We got there 11:00, 11:30 maybe. there in the tent. the normal things. George and Cindy were
They were selling the T-shirts and People would come up and they were
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very pleasant and supporting the family. up a little bit later, you know. Q A
And Lee showed
And what happened the rest of that day? The rest of that day people just came and, you
know, spoke with George and Cindy and gave them their support and -Q After you-all failed to find the body, what
conversation did you and Dominic have? A Q I was glad that we didn't find the body. What did you-all say? Did you say who was the
tip -- who gave -A I asked him that more than once during the
course of the day. Q A He kept saying? He would just say it's -- I think he said ones
or twice anonymous tip or he just didn't say anything. When you realize somebody's not going to tell you, you know, I'm not going to be beating on him. Q So when you didn't find the body, did you say
the tipster was wrong? A I figured the tipster was wrong. He told me
they had dozens -- I don't know if it's dozens, probably hundreds of tips during the course of this investigation. Q Now, you go to the meet and greet and that's
over at the Anthony home?
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A
No, sir.
That was a site in Orlando.
I don't
remember the street, but they had a tent set up and they called it their command center. You know, they sold the
T-shirts and buttons and that sort of thing. Q A Who was selling T-shirts and buttons? George and Cindy were there. They had
volunteers there. Q A Did they get the profits from the -I don't know what they did with the money. I
think -- I think -- actually, I think a lot of it went to the Kids Find Network, but, again, that's just a guess because they were there also. Q A What'd you do the rest of the day? Stayed there with them just make sure no
crazies came out there request baseball bats and they didn't. You know, and I think we stayed until -- I think
they closed that down at 4:00 and key kind of like hung around, you know. 4:20. And then I think we finally left about
Dominic asked me to come back the next day because
he wanted to go back and search the woods again. Q A Q A So you went back the next day? Yes, sir. What time did you get back the next day? He wanted to do it a little bit earlier if I'm
not mistaken.
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Q A Q A Q
This is now the 16th? Yes, sir. Sunday? Yes, sir. And what time did you get there? Did you meet
or did you meet at D&A? A Q A Q this time? again? A No. This time -- this time I drove -- I drove I didn't make a U. turn and come back up I had parked closer to Met at his office again. And now you're driving him back out again? Uh-huh. Yes? And so now how long are you in the woods
So do you pull up to the exact same spot
straight down.
to where I parked the first day.
where -- where the -- I'm going to again call them pavers, you know, parked closer to where we thought they were. Okay. And then we got out of the car. the trunk of my car -Q A Is he dressed now for the search? Yes, sir, now he's got on jeans and I don't He went to
remember if he had boots on, but he had a jacket on and I think he had a camera with him. first or second day -He had the camera on the
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Q A Q A
Did you ask him why are we going back? Yeah, I said why are we going back. What did he say? Well, I just want to search the area a little
Q A same area. again. Q A Q A
The exact same area? Well, he just said -- he didn't say the exact He just said I want to go back and search
But the woods? Yes, sir. Go ahead. And so this time -- so let me go back a little When we're at the -- his office, we did not go in.
He just went to his trunk or his truck, rather, and raised the lid and took out a rod that you saw in the videotape. And this time he had on a jacket and jeans
and that sort of thing. I think he had gloves with him. remember, you know, first or seconds day. Q A Q A filming. Are you filming again? Oh, of course. All right. Yeah. I know he said he didn't know I was So -I'm trying to
He held the camera going down.
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Q A
So he held the camera going into the woods? Well, no, when we drove down the first time
because when I drove down there, I had my two cameras on the front seat. Q filming? A Q A Q A Q A Q A I know. What do you think about that remark? It's just one of those little stories. Why do you think he said that? Why does Dominic say anything? Okay. Again, I can't speak for him. Okay. So, again, we went back down there and we -And later said he didn't know you were
we walked along the road looking for the pavers again as a reference point. And you can't hear it on videotape,
but -- well, actually, you can hear it on the original videotape that I gave to the police. You can hear me
saying that they're over here or something like that. And he came over and then we went to the woods at that spot again. I don't remember if it was the first
day or second day that we found a blanket, okay, that he picked up. Again, that's on the tape. And like I say,
he picked you have the blanket with something, you know,
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picked up, I don't know if it was a pen or whatever and picked it up and looked at it and put it back down. Again, I don't remember if that was first or six -- then he walked, again, towards the area where they found her only this time a little bit further in that direction. And that's where you see him repeatedly, you And I don't
know, putting the rod into the ground.
think -- and at one point he was on the phone again in the wooded area. there we went -Q A Did you ever hear him talking on the phone? No, sir. Like I said when we were on the I'm not going to Okay. And then -- then after we left
street, he would walk away from me. follow the guy down the street. Q A Right, right.
What's the sense.
Then like I say we went back to that house
again and we went back and again the videotape shows him -- I'm as close to him as I am to this young lady here and putting the rod into the ground that sort of thing. And I don't remember what time that was. And then we left there and when we left there we went to a hotel. Q A How long were you there? The second day probably -- again, this us just
a guess -- probability 20 minutes at east site.
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Q A
But not a real thorough investigation? No, no, sir. And the deal was that -- part of
the deal was that, you know, this area had been searched before. I mean, the pointed was this area had been You know, we thought by the police, by
searched before.
the EquuSearch, you know, Texas EquuSearch people. Q But you really -- those two days you all
actually never got to the spot where the body was actually found? A No, sir, no. I don't know -- again, I haven't I don't
been out -- well, let me go back a little bit.
know exactly where they found her, you knee, so I can't even tell you how close we were. Q But your understanding was you all never
investigated that area where the body was found? A Q That exact spot, no, sir. When you left there that 20 minutes, what did When you came out of the woods, what did
he say to you? he say? A Q A Q
I was in the woods with him. When he came out, what did he say? Oh -He said, we're going to leave, there is
nothing there? A He left the woods -- this is on day two we're
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talking about.
We left there and went over to the house.
And this time he took the rod, went over -- made no sense, took the rod and started poking into the soft ground where the other three pavers were. on videotape. Q A And then what happened? We left there and went to a hotel where the -We met her at the hotel. Again, that's
Michelle Barth was. Q A Q A time. Q A
This is the PR girl? Yes, sir. Who is -- she's for the Kids Network? Yeah, I believe she's Kids Find Network at the And then we left the hotel. What hotel? I don't know. Right near the airport. It was We drove up to the --
right near the airport.
Like I say, we had breakfast
with her, left there, went up to the command center. Nobody was there. They didn't open it up that Sunday.
We thought that they were. Spend a little bit of time there, maybe half hour, Dominic made a couple calls. I think Michelle made
a couple calls trying to find out if they're going to open it up, and then eventually left. Q A And that was it? Yes, sir.
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Q office? A Q and -A
Did you -- did you drive him back to the D&A
Yes, sir. And did you-all talk about the futile search
Yeah, just basically, you know, I think said You know, it
something I'd glad we didn't find her.
turned out to be a nothing tip and I didn't think that much about it. Q going on? A I hate when you ask me these questions what I What I Just another tip that didn't pan out.
What do you think now looking back what was
think because I like dealing with the facts. think was going on? Q
Yeah, based on everything you've observed and,
you know, we're lucky because you're a real pro -A Q Thank you. What is your opinion of what was really going
on those two days? A Well, like I say, initially the first day I
thought this was kind of a showboating for members of the family where I did this, this and this. but the second day I wasn't too sure. You know, I'm -I think the second
day I'm thinking, well, you know, maybe something is really going on here. He really does have a legitimate
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tip. First day I really didn't think so. But when
he said he want today go back the second day then I really started thinking there may be something to this, you know. Q But the behaviors just didn't -As you look back now do you think that he may
have been trying to put together an alibi for Casey maybe? A See, that would be illegal, and I don't think You know, I think --
he would do something illegal. Q
I know it would be illegal, but do you think
that is what was going on? A Q No, I don't think so. So now you all drive back and it's all over.
You drop -- you go to D&A and then -A Uh-huh, and then I think we just -- we may Let me think.
have gone to -- no, we didn't go to lunch.
We just parted ways, you know, and said talk to ya later. Just normal conversation. Q A him -Q A That was 16th, wasn't it? I'm sorry, 16th. May have had one or two And when was the last time you talked to him? That was November 15th. Next time I talked to
conversations, you know, on the phone, not in person
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because I hadn't gone down there because by this time Casey's back in jail certainly. Q A Was Casey out of jail? No, she was in jail at the time. So I wasn't
going down there.
And then the next time I heard from
him was, I believe, December 11th. Q So from the 16th to the 11th you all really
are just paying -A Q A Q A Q Just touching base on the phone kind of thing. Anything of importance? No, not really. Now, after that Sunday -Uh-huh. -- 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 22, 23, 24,
25, on and on and on till December 11th, on any of those days did you ever call the police and say I've got something to tell you. searched these woods? A Q A Q A No, sir. Never? No, sir. Why not? I wasn't the investigator in the case. You We've received a tip, and we've
know, actually, he told me that he forwarded all the -let me rephrase that. He forwarded all tips to the
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police. Q
It was his case. So it's your understanding that the reason you
didn't do it was because you weren't the primary investigator? A Q Right. Had you been the primary investigator, would
you have forwarded this information to the police? A Yeah, he had -- you know, again, I'd had
conversations with detective Allen, who had told me that they had dozens of referrals or, you know, referrals from I think Dominic, you know, were tips that they had. Q Had you with the private investigator, would
you have told the police about it before you went out there that first Saturday? A I would have told them that we had a tip,
yeah, I would have told them. Q A Q A had. Before you all went out there? Sure. That would have been the proper procedure? Well, again, I don't think how many tips they I'm sure it was in the hundreds, maybe in the
thousands, you know, and I think that -Q But this is the only time that Dominic ever
went looking for the body physically? A That I know of.
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Q A Q
That you know of? That I know of, yes, sir. So the only time that you know that he ever
went looking for the body he never called the police. Obviously this is a tip that he really believed? A Q A Q Yeah. Because two -First day, I'm not sure. But second day --
Because, to your knowledge, he had never been
out searching for the body before? A Q A Q But that doesn't mean that he had known. I said to your knowledge. To my knowledge. But he didn't say call the police and say meet
us out there? A Q No, sir. And he never called to your knowledge -- when
did he ever tell the police about this the first time to your knowledge? A I don't know. When he told them, I don't
Q
But you know he did tell the police he'd been
out there searching? A Q Eventually, yeah. What do you think he told them?
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A Q A Q A
I don't know. Was it before December 11th? Again, I don't know. Okay. What happened on December 11th?
December 11th is the date that they found the Like I
remains in the wooded area near where we were.
said earlier he had called me, and asked me to come down. I told you the story, you know, I met him behind -Bennigan's parking lot in the back and then went from there. Q A Q And we've already covered that ground? Yes, sir. Didn't you tell the police that Dominic had
asked you to videotape him in the woods? A Q A Yeah. So he did ask you to videotape? Yeah, it was kind of like, you know, I told --
before we went out there -- because he had seen me with the video camera before, you know, when we had been at the house and people were, let's say, acting uncivilly, you know, I would videotape some of the people who were there in case something did -Q And you ultimately taped over -- didn't you
tape over some of this tape at some point in time? A Okay. There were three tapes. Let me go
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back. off.
The first tape I told you I took the color was Okay? And that showed Dominic standing there on
the cell phone across from where they eventually did find her. I videotaped out my back window and then the front
which showed -- actually showed where my vehicle is parked. And then put another tape in. the tape that we went into the woods. I think that's
When we went out
to the greeting -- meet and greet thing, I picked up the camera, put a different tape in, just videotaped the goings on there, pictures of George and Cindy and, you know, just people who were there. pictures basically. website. Okay? I took some group
And I think they're on a
I some group pictures because on my camera I I made copies and
can take still pictures and video.
gave them to all the people that were there. Q Did you ever tell the police that Dominic had
told you that Cindy drove him crazy because she was calling him with 12 tips a day? A Q A whatever -Q tips, tips? But she was calling every day tips, tips, Yeah, I did. Now, was there -I don't know if I said 12 tips, but
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A Q
Yes, sir. And was there ever a time where you were
gathered at the Anthony home when an attorney came in and said to you all, hey, didn't we search this area before kind of in maybe a staged way again? remember that? A In a staged way again, no, I never heard Do you ever
anything like that. Q Do you ever remember an attorney coming in and
saying in front of everybody or Dominic saying in front of everybody we searched that area before? A Q A Q I had -- you're talking about that Sunday. Yes. And that Sunday -Sunday is after the Ritz is over, church is
over, you-all are back at the house? A Q Right. You-all are back at the house. What was it --
didn't Dominic blurt out in front of everyone -A No. I had said to Dominic -- there were a
lot -- let's see, three, four, five, six -- there were like eight or nine people in the house, I think eight people in the house and there was different conversation going on. everybody. I was sitting in the dining room area facing And Dominic was sitting in the chair near the
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door. And that conversation had come up -- had not come up about us being in there. Q A Q woods? A Let me finish. I said Dominic, don't they I said to Dominic --
What conversation never came up? About Dominic not being in the woods. Nobody had known that you-all were in the
know that we were in that area, you know, like a month ago? He said they know. And then -- and that was pretty
much it. Q A Q How did -- so he had told them? Yeah, yeah. Was that December 11, that's the last time you
were ever involved in this case either as a volunteer? A last day. Q A everybody. Q A And what happened that day? Just Baez came in, Baden came in. There was And what happened then? That was the day that I was at the house with No, remember December 14, I think, was the
an entomologist there from, I think, University of Nebraska or something. was there. Family was there. I was there. Mr. Anthony And then
Cindy was there.
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eventually the attorney, Conway, came in. Q A And what -And then another private investigator, I There were a lot of
think, from West Palm Beach came in. people there. Q
And what went on during that meeting?
What
happened at the house that day? A Q A There was just a lot of conversations. About? About -- let me see. About what would happen
to the remains, you know, things along that line. Q Did Dominic ever tell you that Casey had told
him that she dropped Caylee off at universal? A Q A No, sir. What did he tell you? He didn't tell me anything. He told me that
whenever he's with her, she didn't talk about the case. Q with her? A me go back. the jail. Well, yeah, I know, that's what he said. Let Her investigator never talked about the case
She never talked about the case with him at That's what he told me, but he never said
anything about -- I was only at the house one time when he went inside the house when she was there. Q Do you know or have ever met Roy Kronk?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 date?
A Q A
No, sir. When did you first become aware of Roy Kronk? When they announced -- when they announced
that he had found -- yeah, when they announced it on TV. Q A Q Padilla? A Q A My relationship? Yeah? No relationship. He's just a bounty hunter No relationship. And you know Leonard Padilla? Yeah, I met him. What was your relationship with Leonard
from California who was down here. Q
Have you ever learned who the tipster was
subsequently to all this? A Q him there? A Q Yeah, yeah, I heard that on the news. Does anyone know who the tipster was at this No, sir. Have you ever heard it was a psychic that sent
A Q
Not that I'm aware of. Do you think he may have gone out there to
protect Cindy those days the 15th and 16th? A Q To protect Cindy? Uh-huh, or and her daughter?
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A I'm sorry. Q
I'm not sure -- ask me that question again. Maybe I'm missing something. I'll strike that. Have you ever discussed the
case with Roy Kronk? A No, sir. MR. DILL: I've never spoken to him. Couple quick things in follow-up. - - - - EXAMINATION BY MR. DILL: Q You had said that when you do investigations,
you usually document everything? A Q A Q Uh-huh, yes, sir. And how do you document? Videotape. Did you ever see -- besides that videotaping
that you did, did you ever see Dominic Casey go back to his office and maybe any type of notes, write down anything, dictate anything about the search or the tips that he had gotten? A Q office? A Q Longwood? Yeah. And that office is on State Road 434in No, sir. And when you -- did he have a computer in his
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A Q A Q
I don't know the address. But it's in Longwood? Yeah, it is 434, yeah. So you never saw anything written and you
never saw any other videotapes that he made besides what you did? A No. Only thing I seen him with was a still
camera and I don't remember if that was the first or the second day. MR. DILL: MR. MORGAN: want me to explain? That's all I have. You want to explain to him or you You can -- you can waive your
right to read or you can come back and read this and make corrections, if you think that something you said was wrong. And I'm sure you've been through
this many times before. THE WITNESS: MR. MORGAN: A few times. Do you want to read or waive?
Most people waive, but you can do -THE WITNESS: MR. MORGAN: I'll waive. All right. It's nothing -And before we go, why
don't you go ahead and go on the record, John, about -- the next deposition he's not coming. don't you go ahead and -- because I think we're going to have -Why
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THE VIDEOGRAPHER: the record. MR. DILL:
Time is 12:57.
We are off
We're done with him.
I just want
to put on the record -MR. MORGAN: Let's video this. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: MR. DILL: Okay. Back on record, 12:57. Dominic Casey was scheduled We Maybe we should video this.
for deposition today at 1:00 p.m, I believe. received -- he's been duly subpoenaed. if we have a conformation of service. MR. MORGAN: MR. DILL: We should mark this.
I'm not sure
We're going to mark the return of
service as an exhibit to Dominic Casey's deposition and also a letter faxed over from him to us today's date as Exhibit 2 stating that was not intending on appearing for today's deposition, so with that, we'd like a CNA as well. MR. MORGAN: This will be 1 and 2. was marked.)
Exhibit No.
(The proceedings were concluded at 12:57 p.m.)