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PARKS _ RECREATION COMMITTEE OF THE SUFFOLK COUNTY LEGISLATURE

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									                               PARKS & RECREATION COMMITTEE

                                              OF THE

                                SUFFOLK COUNTY LEGISLATURE

                                             MINUTES



A regular meeting of the Parks & Recreation Committee of The Suffolk County Legislature was held
in the Rose Y.Caracappa Legislative Auditorium of the William H. Rogers Legislature Building, 725
Veterans Memorial Highway, Smithtown, New York on June 2, 2010.




MEMBERS PRESENT:
Leg. Lynne C. Nowick, Chairperson
Leg. Wayne R. Horsley, Vice Chair
Leg. Thomas Barraga
Leg. Rick Montano
Leg. Steven H. Stern
Presiding Officer William Lindsay, ex-officio member



ALSO IN ATTENDANCE:
Leg. Edward P. Romaine, First District
Leg. Jon Cooper, Eighteenth District
Terrence G. Pearsall, Chief of Staff
George Nolan, Counsel to the Legislature
Sarah Simpson, Assistant Counsel
Ben Zwirn, County Executive's Office
Renee Ortiz, Chief Deputy Clerk
Lance Reinheimer, Assistant Director of Budget Review Office
Jill Moss, Budget Review Office
John W. Pavacic, Commissioner/Parks Department
Richard Martin, Historic Services Director
Joe Montuori, Chief Deputy Commissioner/Parks Department
Paul Perillie, Aide to Majority Leader
Linda Bay, Aide to Minority Leader
Greg Moran, Aide to Leg. Nowick
Deborah Harris, Aide to Leg. Stern
Bob Martinez, Aide to Leg. Montano
Dot Kerrigan, AME Legislative Representative
Carol Ghiorsi Hart, Vanderbilt Museum
Noel Gish, Vanderbilt Museum
Marge Acevedo, Presiding Officer Aide
William Shilling, Presiding Officer Aide
ALSO IN ATTENDANCE:
Ian Toy
Claire Kennedy
Tom Kennedy
Judy McCleery
Donald J. Sovigny
David M. Bottomley, appointee for Vanderbilt Museum
Elizabeth Cambria, appointee for Vanderbilt Museum
Kevin Peterman, appointee for Vanderbilt Museum
Christopher Hahn, appointee for Vanderbilt Museum
Dot Kerrigan, AME
And all other interested parties


MINUTES TAKEN BY:
Diana Flesher, Court Stenographer




       THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 1:35 PM



CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Is there anybody from the Parks Committee? Legislators? Okay, we're running late.

We'll start with the Pledge led by Legislator Horsley.

                  SALUTATION

Okay, good afternoon and welcome to the Parks and Recreation Committee. I will apologize for
running so late. The Ways and Means Committee really ran very, very late and then we had
executive session. So we're going to go through this agenda as organized as we can.

                PUBLIC PORTION

We're going to start with the Public Portion, Ian Toy. Ian, state your name and you do have three
minutes to address the Legislature.
MR. TOY:
My name is Ian Toy. I am a 13-year-old 8th grader and live in Southold. I am here today to ask
you for two things. First and foremost to stop the demolition of the Helen Keller house in Southold,
New York. This will give me some time to come up with a solid plan of action in order to save this
home. Secondly, your consideration for the proposed funding by Legislator Edward Romaine.

Helen Keller and her teacher Anne Sullivan spent their last summer together in this unique Bavarian
Tudor style home near Cedar Beach that was built in the 1920's. Anne, who was ill with a heart
condition, was told to get fresh air and exercise. They chose our eastern Long Island Town of
Southold for its beauty and peacefulness. Although Helen was deaf and blind, she was able to enjoy
all the wonderful things Southold had to offer: The beaches, the surroundings, the surrounding
community and its ambience. Mrs. Olive Penfield, whose parents rented the house to Helen Keller
and her teacher, told me that Helen said upon her arrival the water and trees are beautiful. This
was to be Helen and Anne's 50th and final summer together.

My research indicates other famous people stayed at this house including Owney Maddan, a
prohibition era rum runner and owner of New York's famed Cotton Club. Albert Einstein also visited
the home.

The house ownership changed several times over the years and was eventually taken over by
Suffolk County in 1968 as a piece of the more than 60 acres Cedar Beach County Park.

In 1996 the daughter of the last owner, Maryann Sewell, wanted to buy the house back from the
County before her mother died, Elizabeth Strauss. In her own words she was told why would we sell
it to you if we could sell it to the highest bidder? She told me that herself in one of our many
conversations.

Over the 40 years that Suffolk County has owned the house, it has never been maintained and has
deteriorated to its current condition. It has been condemned and slated for demolition this summer.

The aboriginal, historical and environmental significance of the house and Cedar Beach Park has
been well known and documented over the years in newspaper articles, books, research by SUNY
Stony Brook Anthropology Department as well as word of mouth passed down from generation to
generation. The Society for the Preservation of Long Island Antiquities, otherwise known as SPLIA,
has more information about the house and Cedar Beach Park property.

Why is this allowed to happen? What other historical sites in our County have been left to the same
fate?

As I said on the May 11th Legislators' meeting, we have a responsibility to preserve what's left of
our history and to pass it on. How do we want to be remembered? I want to be remembered as
someone who took care of my community and contributed to preserving our past.

The East End of Long Island doesn't seem to get as much attention as the rest of Long Island.
Maybe it's time that this should change.

Some possibilities for the restored house could be an educational center for the community and a
destination point for the deaf-blind special needs as a summer retreat.

I first decided to do this project because of my love of architecture and old houses. When I learned
that Helen Keller and Anne Sullivan Macy --

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Mr. Toy? Mr. Toy, could you wrap up please?

AUDIENCE:
He's got a paragraph left.

MR. TOY:
-- summered here, it became even more interesting. I've come to realize how important it is for
people of special needs to have the same opportunities as we do.

I've had an overwhelming amount of support for this project including many professionals who want
to donate their time and services as well as some leads on private finding. I have a petition here
signed with me signed by 1,305 community members, people from around the country and around
the world. They all share the same connection, Southold, and preserving the Helen Keller house.

Legislator Ed Romaine is behind me on this project. I hope you will all come to the same conclusion
that our history is worth preserving not only for us now but for the future generations to come.
Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Thank you.

Claire Kennedy.

MS. KENNEDY:
Hi, my name is Claire Kennedy. Thank you for this opportunity to speak.

I just want to drop off some things for the record. There's a few things that I think would be
absolutely necessary for you to look over. I have a letter here from somebody who has raised
considerable amount of money for the Town of Riverhead last year. She works in this area of grant
writing and getting public funding. I'm going to submit that for the record. It's got more
information. She's very excited about working with Ian on this project.

This is also the petition with over a thousand signatures. There's lots of comments on here as well
that you'd probably at your leisure would like to go through and just read some of them. Ian has
over -- about 300 handwritten signatures. We have a list here of potential supporters of the Helen
Keller house in Southold including Keller Thompson, who's Helen Keller's great grand-niece, another
association, The American Association for the Deaf-Blind is very interested in working with Ian on
this. He's actually going to be meeting with the Executive Director and her husband this weekend.

The East End Lions Club, Ian spoke last night there. They're very interested. They're reaching out
to Nationwide Lions Club as well and it's internationally known. We've got the Town of Southold
behind us, Edward Romaine -- Legislator Romaine, the Historical Society in Southold, David
Richenthal, the Broadway producer of the Miracle Worker. We also have a lot of places around town
that want to help with the fundraising. Antiques and Old Lace in Cutchogue wants to do an auction
for this cause. Eastern Long Island Hospital, Dr. Frank Adipietro, he's on the Board of Trustees
there. He's very interested in helping Ian with this cause.

Also, a couple more support letters from the last owner of the house, the daughter. Here's the letter
from Keller Thompson herself. I have a whole list here of media links. And it's gone nationwide.
It's not just here on Long Island. Timeline of some facts for you, a nice picture.

Also, just so you know, Ian's vision of the house is to keep it within the special needs, like Helen
Keller and Annie Sullivan. And that in itself, if he's to be successful holding off the demolition, that
would open up a whole new field of funding, private funding, public funding, government funding.
So just please keep that in mind as well.

If you could, please just give Ian a chance to succeed, to succeed for himself and to succeed for all
of us because everybody will win in this. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Thank you very much. Thank you, Ian.

Tom Kennedy.

MR. KENNEDY:
Good afternoon. My name is Tom Kennedy. I'm the father of this outstanding young man, Ian.
Basically this effort's being run from our kitchen table right now and it's growing. The problem is, is
we're kind of at a standstill right now. We have local support from the Town of Southold; however,
since this is County-owned property, we need to get Parks Department or the County Attorney,
someone to sign off on the application so that this structure gets recognition by the Town on their
landmark preservation. So it's been a back and forth.

Ultimately I think Legislator Romaine is going to introduce legislation to you later which is going to
ask for some public funding. We have commitments from private individuals and organizations who
are interested in providing funding. This would not solely come from the County, but, you know,
from many organizations and many individuals who helped in this project in the way of their
support, their services and money. But that can't happen without us getting out of this bureaucracy.

The other thing is, is the frustration I dealt with. Not with the Legislature but really with the
executive branch, is that they go back to previous surveys, previous actions that have been taken,
which they think it's not a priority. Well, it's not a priority for them, but it's a priority for the people
who supported us in the Town who want to see this house have a life again. And just for the people
with disabilities, the historical nature, just the preservation of it is important to a lot of people. But,
you know, they refer to the past. Well, we're here now because of basically their lack of action in
allowing the house to deteriorate. And it's not this current administration, but the years in the
stewardship that the County's owned this, it's just fallen in disrepair.

We have the support. We have the people. And this is gaining momentum but we need to get out
of the current bureaucracy to be able to move on. I ask you really seriously to take a look at this
and make this a priority for this Committee and the Legislators. Again, we hear time and time again
teach your children well but this is an instance where, you know, our child is teaching us. And I
think his voice is important and it's one that needs to be listened to. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Thank you, Mr. Kennedy.

Judy McCleery.

MS. MC CLEERY:
Good afternoon and thank you. My name is Judy McCleery. I've been a life long resident of the
Town of Southold. And I hope that all of you standing before me are as impressed as I am with the
work of that young boy, or young man, I should say. I've never seen anybody so young work so
hard to keep alive a piece of our history, our East End Suffolk County history.

You know, one of the things that impresses me as I visit that area nearly everyday, or I should say,
a few times a week, depending on the weather, as I go visit the beach is that this is a beautiful
house with real historic roots that means something to us in Southold Town. It's a place where
Helen Keller and her teacher Annie Sullivan spent the last summer together before Anne died. And
this offers a tangible connection between the humble community of Southold and Helen Keller, a
woman who stands as an icon of hope for anyone who has faced physical disabilities.

It's my understanding, and Tom Kennedy has confirmed this, that Ian and his supporters are
working to generate funding from private sources. I'm one of those supporters. I'm on the
Facebook page. And I've signed petitions. And I'm one of the people offering services to Ian. We
need to -- but we realize that you have to support the public -- we have to support the public
funding. And we want to see this property restored and we will work to get the private support to
do that from local communities, private donations and donors. But first we need to halt the
demolition.

So, please, vote or do whatever you need to do to support the halt, the stopping of the razing of the
Helen Keller house. That's what we call it in Southold. I don't know what you folks would call it, but
that's what we call it. And we hope that that is what it will always be called. And, further, support
whatever capital funding that may be available to help us start the restoration. It's going to be a
long road, we recognize that, but I hope that all of you who agree with me that an effort like this
started by a 13-year-old just two months ago deserves our support. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Thank you. Donald S-e-v-i-g-n-y. Sorry if I didn't pronounce your name. I'm not sure how you do
that.

MR. SEVIGNY:
It's Sevigny.

Good afternoon. I'm a senior studying historic preservation and art and architectural history at
Roger Williams University up in Bristol, Rhode Island. And I'm here to support Ian and his family to
preserve and save this structure, this historic structure in Suffolk County.

Suffolk County needs to stop the demolition of this house and keep it for future generations to come
because not only is it an important piece of history for Southold, but it's also important for Suffolk
County.

So that's all I have to say. Thank you very much. Have a good day.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Okay, thank you. That's all the cards I have from the public. And what I thought I would do, if it's
okay with the Committee, is to take this one out of order, 1585 out of order. I'll make a motion to
take 1585 out of order. I have a second by Legislator Horsley.

LEG. HORSLEY:
Sure.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
All in favor? Opposed? 1585 stands before us. (1585, Amending the 2010 Capital Budget and
Program and appropriating funds in connection with the restoration of the Helen Keller
House -CP 7504) Do I have a motion for 1585? I'll make a motion for purposes of discussion.
Actually -- maybe that's a good idea. You know what? I will make a motion to table. And I'll
second by Legislator Horsley, but I would like to bring up the Commissioner. Oh, he's right here.
Commissioner, talk to us.

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
As the father of a 13-year-old eighth grade boy myself, I appreciate the fervor and the passion that
Ian Toy brings to supporting the resolution before the Committee today. I understand how
important it is to preserve history and I understand that Suffolk County has a significant set of
holdings of historic structures. We have over 200 historic structures across the County in various
County parklands. And we are immanently committed to the preservation of historic structures.

However, one of the things I would like to point out is that if the Legislature recalls just about a
year-and-a-half ago or so, we distributed to the entire Legislature this in depth detailed survey, the
historic structure survey that looked at 49 of those 200 structures that we have.

This survey was done by a professional engineering firm under the close watch of our Historic
Services Department headed up by Richard Martin who is our Historic Services Director who is sitting
next to me on my right. I'm also joined by Chief Deputy Commissioner Joe Montuori.

This survey, we believe, should be the bible that's followed for any restoration priorities in County
parks. These structures that are embodied in this document are those that are the most historically
significant in the County and in the greatest need of restoration. These are structures that are
either listed on the State of National Registers of Historic Places and/or the County Historic Trust.
These include such wonderful locations as Sagtikos Manor, West Bay Shore -- George Washington
actually did sleep there, spent time there, that was one of the oldest and best known families on
Long Island and as well as New York City, the Van Cortlandts, after whom a number of parks and
facilities in New York City are named. They established the residency there as well as the Gardiner
family known for Gardiner's Island.

So that's one of the most historic and significant structures that's embodied in this document. It
also includes the Elwood Schoolhouse in Elwood; again, another structure that we are striving to
preserve. And also the Isaac Mills House, one of the oldest houses in our holdings dating from the
mid 1700's. That is one that is in the next round of the historic structures survey. These are the
ones that should be the priority.

And I would ask the Committee's indulgence in that these are the ones that should receive funding
before any others, before we lose any more structures, or they undergo more significant
deterioration. These are the ones that have been looked at by all the experts including both within
and without the Parks Department. These have been determined to be the ones that really need to
be addressed now before you lose them to perpetuity.

What I would like to also ask is for Richard Martin to just explain something about the history and
the significance of the Helen Keller house. And, Richard, if you could please address the Committee.

MR. MARTIN:
Just to give a brief background, the Historic Trust Committee did review this property for possible
historic trust listing in 1987. At that time it was turned over to Parks Department. It was not
deemed eligible at that point. We did research it. We did know that Helen Keller had stayed there
in the summer of 1936. But we didn't think that rose to the level of declaring it a Suffolk County
landmark.

Also the condition of the building and the historic architecture, again, did not qualify it for the
Historic Trust Program. And it was in such disrepair that we could not even put it in our residential
program. And this is in 1987.

At this point it's really half a house. The back of the house is completely caved in on itself. And it
has been declared ineligible by New York State to be either on the National Register or on the State
Register of Historic Places. And by that declaration you are not eligible for any public funding that
cuts you out of all those programs. And the County Historic Trust Committee has reviewed the
building again at this time, declared, again, they agree with our opinion in the past and that the
building is not eligible for the Suffolk County Historic Trust.

And I think we all have to remember as we're doing the research on our Suffolk County Historic
properties to have accurate information. This is not Helen Keller's house. She did own a number of
homes that are well documented. Her birth place in Alabama is restored and opened to the public.
And there's been a lot of comments on the Facebook site that has finally done their own research,
these individuals and commented that this truly is not the Helen Keller house. So I just would like
people to be aware of that fact. And that's why it doesn't rise to the importance of being identified
as a Historic Trust property.

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
Rich is going to be distributing some documentation to you. This includes a one-page report by the
State Historic Preservation Office. They're the final arbiters and experts as determining what
structures should go in the state and national registers of historic places. This report is based on the
standards established by the federal government, the National Park Service for listing on the
National Register of Historic Places.

In addition, the documentation contains extensive photographs showing you just the condition of the
house. If folks have not visited what remains of this structure, it's basically a Hollywood back lot.
There's a facade there and then there's nothing left behind it. The structure is unsafe. It is an
attractive nuisance. Although you've heard testimony in support of saving the structure, we have
also received requests for demolition because of the safety issues it poses. It has become a
gathering place at times for youth. It is -- because it is in a rather remote dark location, there's
potential for something untoward happening.

I would also point out that conservatives estimates right now indicate it would probably cost us at
least a million dollars to fully restore the structure. As Richard alluded to, because the vast majority
of the structure is gone, even if you were able to raise that amount of money, the structure would
never be eligible for listing on the State and National Register of Historic Places. It would considered
to be a reproduction or a reconstruction. There's so little of it left that it would not be deemed
worthy to be listed on any of those designations. It would never be worthy of receiving any sorts of
grants. In order to be eligible for a grant, a structure normally has to have already been designated
as a state or national historic significance. The structure would also not be eligible for listing on the
County's Historic Trust as well.

The other thing I would also point out is that if the Committee and the Legislature decides to
approve this resolution, unfortunately what you're doing is, you are forcing us to divert attention
from all these other structures here, which we believe are much higher priority. We rely heavily on
the County Department of Public Works, which acts as our experts. We rely heavily on the County
Architects Office within that organization to handle the vast majority, the design and engineering
work, also the RFP's for reconstruction and renovation of existing historic structures.

What this would do, would divert attention from these much more worthy and eligible structures at
this time when even those structures are competing against one another for funding. I would also
point out that because of the economic situation, the last several years, the vast majority of our
historic preservation capital budget has not been funded. And that's understandable. But if such
funding is available, $400,000 is somehow available, I would urge the Committee to redirect it to
one of the structures that has been deemed to be more worthy and also salvageable at this point.
There's nothing left of the other structure virtually at this point.

I urge you to please, if you really do have that money available, then redirect it to one of the other
historic structures. We'd be happy to go over it with you chapter and verse these others structures
here. And these also include other structures within Legislator Romaine's district, including Robert
Cushman Murphy Park. We have an assemblage of historic structures there. And there are other
sites within his district as well that could certainly utilize that funding.

I also point out that -- besides the CEQ, the Parks Trustees also passed a resolution at their last
meeting again affirming the demolition of the structure and the need to do so because it is a
hazardous situation.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Thank you, Commissioner. Does anybody have any questions? Has everybody looked at the photos
of this structure? Ed's seen it, right? We'll pass it over to Legislator Barraga. Okay, Legislator
Romaine?

LEG. ROMAINE:
Thank you, Madam Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity to briefly address the Committee. I
know I'm not a member of this Committee. And I thank you for at least recognizing me.
I just want to make sure, are there any nails left to put in the coffin?

                      LAUGHTER

That was a telling rendition. Historic preservation is something that this County should take
seriously. There's no question that there are other structures in my district that need attention. In
fact, I have correspondence with the Parks Commission from the moment I was elected asking about
some of the historic structures in my district.

Let's understand something about this home. We took it by eminent domain in 1960. We added it
to Cedar Beach. This is on a residential street. It's the last house on a residential street and then
you turn into Cedar Beach Park which is a County park in Southold. First it was used by Suffolk
Community College. Then it was used by Cornell. We've owned this structure for 50 years. We
deliberately allowed the structure to fall apart. This is not nonfeasance. It is malfeasance.
Malfeasance, by those who proceeded us.

When we look back, we take a look at this. And if no other reason but to call attention to some of
our historic structures that we're now allowing to collapse, we've allowed this one to fall into
disrepair. Did Helen Keller live in this house? Yes. For a short period of time. It's known by other
names, but it's most locally known as a Helen Keller house.

This is a story that you wish would happen to all historic structures. Someone came along.
Someone looked at something in disrepair. Someone did some research. And someone said this
house should be saved. In this case it's unusual because it's not a historian, it's not a local activist,
it's not a neighbor. It's a 13-year-old boy who had an interest in architecture that's said, wow, this
house has some significance, that rallied the community. I only wish it could happen for every
house. I only wish that every house of historic significance had a champion.

And maybe they're looking to 18 novices, 18 people that sit here, men and women, that say would
you champion this house? Would you save this house? Would you allow this house not to be torn
down? Now I know today, because I spoke with some of my colleagues that it will be tabled today,
but at least by keeping it on the agenda we keep some hope alive. There are efforts by people to
preserve this house with private funding. But because we took it by eminent domain, because we
sat on it for 50 years and allowed it to fall into disrepair through malfeasance, is the only thing I can
say, we have an opportunity of redemption; redeeming those who came before us who did nothing.

We have an opportunity to step forward and to say history matters and communities matter. And,
yes, there are so many other houses, and I've toured them in my district and written about them
because I'm concerned about them. But this house, if we don't do something, and I'm not saying
today, I understand it's going to be tabled, this house will be razed. So we can forget the
malfeasance, the neglect that we've shown over 50 years to something that we took by eminent
domain, that other people wanted to buy and preserve. But instead we took it and sat on it and did
nothing.

This is our chance to do something. This is our chance to say history matters, it's tied to our
communities. And I would say to the Parks Commissioner, Mr. Pavacic, and to whoever succeeds
him and is nominated to succeed him, I will work with all of you to save our historic structures
because I believe in them. But I would ask this Committee in tabling this to keep this alive; because
I may have to come back with an even more desperate resolution to ask you to stall the County to
do two things: One, don't raze this building; and, two, fence it in until we can get the time
necessary, because we let 50 years go by so far, to get the time necessary to try to raise private
dollars and then to see if I can work with the County Parks Foundation, because they have a Parks
Foundation, a not-for-profit, if I'm not mistaken; or to work with another not-for-profit and maybe
get this alienated so that we can transfer this to someone that will take care of it. Because we didn't
take care of it for the last 50 years. We let it fall apart.
So I would appreciate in tabling this that you keep this alive. Hopefully the Parks Department, and I
will ask the Parks Commissioner and the Parks Department now, that if you have any plans of razing
it, that you contact my office first. Because I will come back to you and say please don't raze it.
Please do not destroy this, what's left of it. Let me see if we can save this.

I would also ask Parks to exercise due diligence that they haven't for the last 50 years, and if this is
an attractive nuisance, to fence in this property so that we can prevent anyone from being injured
who might be attracted because there are hundreds, if not thousands of people now that know about
our efforts to try to save this property.

Madam Chairman, I thank you for the time that you've yielded me. I appreciate it greatly as I'm not
a member of this Committee and I appreciate any attention you would give to this matter. Thank
you.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Thank you, Legislator Romaine. Just quickly I wanted to ask the Parks Commissioner, if he knows, I
mean I've been here like nine and a half years and I don't ever remember any legislation bringing
this building to our attention. Has there been? Has anybody brought this up before? Is this a first?

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
I believe this is the first.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Legislator Horsley, you have a question?

LEG. HORSLEY:
Yeah, I do just quickly. And I share the malfeasance comment with Legislator Romaine. It's a
shame. I looked through our book of the 40 top properties that we have that need correction. And
it's only to be said that it's sad. And Ed and I both come from historic backgrounds and the like.
But that being the case, reality has to take shape at some point. When do you guys think that the
building would be taken down? What is your anticipated date?

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
We don't have a date at this point. We have not set a date. We haven't established a deadline for
the demolition. It is something that we're investigating.

LEG. HORSLEY:
Legislator Romaine, how long do you need?

LEG. ROMAINE:
Well, I would hope to have the ability to work for the remainder of this year for this. Now
understand it's not going to be taken down for nothing. Rough estimates that I've received upwards
to a hundred thousand dollars minimum to demolish and cart away and do all of this, if you have a
private contractor do this. But Parks probably would have a more absolute number on than than I
would.

LEG. HORSLEY:
Do we have a demolition contract that's outstanding that we would take the building down with? Or
is that something that we do inhouse? Doesn't seem like it would take much.

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
We do have a demolition contractor in-house on DPW's contract system.

LEG. HORSLEY:
Right.
COMMISSIONEER PAVACIC:
We've utilized their services elsewhere. More often than not the initial estimate tends to be higher
than what the actual cost results in being. In this particular case one of the first things they would
have to do in terms of due diligence is checking for asbestos and any other types of hazardous
materials. First those would have to be remediated prior to removal. And if there's any other
conditions on the site that would need to be addressed before removal. In addition, because the site
is near water, it appears we would need to seek and obtain a DEC wetlands permit first before
commencing with demolition.

LEG. HORSLEY:
Just as a possible alternative, first of all, I would -- if we could, give Legislator Romaine some time
at least -- and certainly notify him before it's going to be taken down so it's not taken down in the
middle of the night as has other locations in the County. Maybe the best thing to do is -- we're
talking upwards of a million dollars to replace this house. It's a 1920's house, Rich?

MR. MARTIN:
I'm sorry. It's about 1927. That's when the developer's plan was submitted. And I think it relates
to that time period. And it's a Tudor revival summer home from about the late 1920's.

LEG. HORSLEY:
So its historic significance is probably minimal excepting the fact that Miss Helen Keller stayed there.

MR. MARTIN:
Yeah. It was actually the home for 15 years from 1930 to 1945 of the Rogers family. This was their
summer home and they're the family that rented it to Helen Keller. And the Tudor revival style was
very popular in 1920's along with the colonial revival style throughout Long Island and the villages
on the north and south shores.

LEG. HORSLEY:
Yeah, I have a 1927 house myself so I know exactly what you're talking about. Generally they're
pretty good houses, though. But it looks like 50 years of County malfeasance -- is that the word
that we used for this? Let me give you an alternative here that at some point if there are monies
that are raised and it does become impractical, Legislator Romaine, maybe we should put some sort
of marker, historic marker that this was a house that Helen Keller stayed at to give at least some
historic recognition from the County that the house existed and that she visited this site, etcetera.

LEG. ROMAINE:
If I may, Madam Chairman, Legislator Horsley, great idea. I'm far more hopeful than that.

LEG. HORSLEY:
You may be.

LEG. ROMAINE:
I am far more hopeful. My goal is to see this house if not -- if it can't be rebuilt in County hands --
and by the way, you're going to vote on giving the Sagtikos Manor, accepting a grant for $175,000
for that, has a 38 rating in terms of priority, this house received a 40 rating. Just so you should
know that. But if you're going to do that --

LEG. HORSLEY:
The Sagtikos Manor, the house that George Washington stayed in got a 38 versus a 40? Is that
true, Mr. Romaine? That doesn't sound correct to me but --

LEG. ROMAINE:
Priority rating of --
LEG. HORSLEY:
Okay.

LEG. ROMAINE:
Is that correct? Is that a priority rating for the capital budget of a 38 for Sagtikos and 40 for this
home?

LEG. HORSLEY:
That Lionel Gardiner owned for all those years, the Gardiner family, that George Washington stayed
at? 38 for historic significance? I don't know about that.

LEG. ROMAINE:
By the way --

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Hold on. What's the answer? Is it 38 versus 40?

LEG. ROMAINE:
Commissioner? Your capital priority rating, please?

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
I'd have to look at it. I don't know it off the top of my head.

LEG. ROMAINE:
Fortunately our Minority Aide does. And we got those little notes attached to these resolutions.
Linda, did you get the resolution agenda? You'll see it right on there, priority rating of 38 for the
Sagtikos Manor and a priority rating on the capital budget of 40 for this.

LEG. HORSLEY:
I don't want to get into debate over this, the historic significance of either location. But my
suspicion would be that this project may have had a lesser rating than whatever the Helen Keller
house had, but Legislator Barraga, whose (district) the Sagtikos Manor's house is located, let me
just give it to you, Legislator Barraga. I'll pass the baton here.

LEG. BARRAGA:
Thank you, Mr. Horsley.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Legislator Barraga.

LEG. BARRAGA:
Thank you. The problem is that George Washington obviously slept in too many places. He should
have spent more time at Longwood, Mt. Vernon. It would have been easier on municipal budgets,
believe me.

                    LAUGHTER

First of all, I do want to say something specifically to Ian, you know, and to commend him for all the
work and continued efforts that you are doing with reference to this particular project. All right.
Sometimes you take up these battles and you win and sometimes you lose.

The bottom line on this, Ian, is that we don't have the money. It's a $400,000 serial bond. The
County faces some very, very serious fiscal challenges. And there are many bond issues that do go
through here, for roads and bridges and that type of thing. But right now this particular project, one
has to step aside on this. We really cannot spend the 400,000 which may multiply itself into a
million dollars.
Now if in the interim somehow the private sector is willing to come up with the dollars, that's a
whole different story. And I read a letter, I think, from the Southold Historical Society. They'd even
be willing to take over the building and the land. But I think what they're really saying is that we'll
take it but they're looking for some sort of funding to repair the house. So I think for the time being
based on the fiscal conditions that exist in this County, had nothing to do with you, (indicating Ian
Toy), all right, it's an honorable project, we just can't afford to do it at this moment.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Okay. Just as a final word and, again, Ian we are very proud as Legislators to hear a young man
like yourself come and address this body. And it's a great undertaking and it's not finished. We're
tabling. There are other opportunities. I don't know if you could form a Friends of Helen Keller
House. I don't know if you can -- you seem like a very energetic young man with a mission. And I
know that there are probably private organizations that would help. There might even be -- there
might even be in your community, in your school, parents, neighbors of this Helen Keller house who
are willing to come together not unlike a -- what's that -- when they build a house, humanity --
Habitat for Humanity, and rebuild this house. Those are all possibilities. It's not coming down
tomorrow the house.

Commissioner, there's a long way before that comes down. Are you going to put a fence around it
for safety or something like that?

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
We do have some fencing around it now. We'll look into a more substantial fence, but obviously --
we will, you know, we will look to put more substantial fencing but obviously to have to continue to
repeat that and expend money on that will be difficult particularly in this difficult economic climate.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Well, the only reason I suggest the fence is a safety issue. And from all these steps, you say, it
takes to raze the building -- is that what you call it? Raze the building, which to me is like an
oxymoron because I think you're bringing it down, but for all of the steps it takes, it's going to be a
while. And for safety purposes that's a concern. And in the meantime, Ian, if you come up with an
organization, I'm sure you'll come back us to.

Right now I have a motion to table with a second from Legislator Horsley. All in favor? Opposed?
Motion to table is approved. (VOTE: 5-0-0-0)

I am also now going to take out of order, if the Committee so chooses, introductory resolution
1586 -- can I do it that way? Can I name all of them?

MR. NOLAN:
Sure.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
1586, 1587, 1588 and 1589. I'll make a motion, second by Legislator Stern. All in favor?
Opposed? 1586, 87, 88 and 89 are before us. I'm the Chair and I can do this.

Okay, so what I'm going to do is bring up Kevin Peterman, Christopher Hahn, David Bottomley and
Jean Cambria and maybe they can all sit here. And we can do this very efficiently.

Before making a motion for these IR's, we're going to start here. Please state your name and we
would appreciate a little background and why you'd be interested in serving on the Vanderbilt
Museum Commission.

MR. HAHN:
My name is Christopher Hahn. I am the former Chief Deputy Nassau County Executive; currently an
attorney in private practice. I was approached by people asking me if I'd be interested in helping
secure a landmark which I feel is very important to Suffolk County and to Long Island and to the
nation, the Vanderbilt Mansion.

I have been visiting that mansion since I was probably about five years old as most people from
Suffolk County who grew up in Suffolk County have. I think it's a wonderful place. And I think that
as a Trustee I could help secure the financing and make sure that the fiduciary responsibilities of the
trustees are taken very seriously and the finances are looked at very critically, and that the actions
that take place there are done in a way that is professional with other museums. I've had some
experience in rescuing museums in the past; most notably the Cradle of Aviation Museum in Nassau
County. And I will be honored to serve in this role.

MR. BOTTOMLEY:
My name is David Bottomley. I've testified before some of the members here before on behalf of
Suffolk Community College. And the Megatronix and associated programs over the last several
years. And I want to thank you for your support. It's been a magnificent success.

I'm a entrepreneur, a capitalist, a consultant. I've run big companies, small companies. I know
what fiduciary responsibility is. I know what the bottom line is. And as one of my friends told me,
I'm a very quick read and can figure out where the problems are.

I've had previous experience with the Cradle of Aviation as a consultant with several other
consultants when -- this is about six or seven years ago, we looked at how that organization was
run. I was very interested in it because it's aerospace. My whole background is in aerospace in a
corporate world. That museum took forever but has definitely been turned around and turned the
corner. Many of the recommendations that we gave them as consultants have finally been
implemented.

So I'd be delighted to serve, like this gentleman (indicating Mr. Hahn) and I'm a little older than
him. I've been going to that museum forever with my kids who are now 50 years old. So once
again I'd be delighted to serve. It's a magnificent facility. And I think I have some ideas that would
even make it better.

MR. PETERMAN:
Good afternoon. Kevin Peterman. I'm a faculty member at Suffolk Community College. I'm actually
a mediate librarian. Some of you also know that I wear another hat as a union official of the union
that represents the faculty.

I think that the museum has tremendous potential. And I think what I can bring to the board is
perspective of an educator. I also have experience as a Trustee. I'm a Trustee of the college's
Benefit Fund, which I've been for almost eighteen years. I've been to that museum several times
and interestingly my daughter now, who's a first grade teacher, brings her classes to that institution.
And the first thing she said to me is, dad, it needs some work.

So, again, I believe that the museum has tremendous potential. I look forward to working as a
trustee to make that place even better. Thank you.

LEG. HORSLEY:
Kevin, I just wanted to, you know, just quickly, just query whether or not your interest is in also
that Suffolk County Community College will look at the concept of being involved with the museum,
whether or not there's synergies where we can do classrooms and class settings and the like so that
they can be used by multiple institutions of Suffolk County, not just one, with one mission.

MR. PETERMAN:
Well, certainly I don't have any problem trying to make the museum more accessible to everyone.
If we can do some kind of partnership, that could be a win/win. But, again, as a Trustee I'll be open
to looking at the actual situation and what is potentially possible. Hopefully we can have a
partnership.

LEG. HORSLEY:
And I would hope that you would lean to that direction, you'd be one of those people out front
saying this is good idea, or not, and taking a leadership role in that.

MR. PETERMAN:
I'll look at the facts and make the decision along with the other trustees.

LEG. HORSLEY:
Thank you.

MS. CAMBRIA:
My name is Elizabeth Cambria. But most people call me Betsy. My background is mostly as a legal
secretary. For 17 years I worked as the secretary to Judge Michael Mullen in? Supreme Court in
Riverhead. Maybe some of you knew him. I recognize some of your names from that time.

I live in Centerport right in the vicinity of the Vanderbilt. I drive by it a lot. There doesn't seem to
be that many reasons for me to go unfortunately. I'd like to change that. I'm of a certain age. And
my background is in fundraising for not-profit groups, specifically the Huntington Querele Society. I
think a lot can be done in that area. They're my neighbors. We all share the same feelings that I
have that we'd like to see more done to give us more of an incentive to attend functions there.

I've also done some grant writing for the Querele Society and been pretty successful in that area.
I'm probably what you would call a people person. And so I think what I would like to bring is
getting more involved in the community on a one to one basis. And thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Legislator Lindsay.

P.O. LINDSAY:
First of all, I just want to thank all four of you for willing to give your service to what, I think, is a
very worthwhile county institution. And we really need folks like yourselves with a very diverse
background to bring this institution back to the days when it was really the jewel of Suffolk County.

So I just want to personally thank you's all for coming forward and volunteering your time. And I
don't know whether, Madam Chairman, if it's appropriate or not, but I'd just like to make a motion
to take these four resolutions out of order.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
We did that.

P.O. LINDSAY:
Oh, we did? Oh, okay. So that's moving forward. Thank you again.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Okay. We have taken these out order already. There was a motion and a second. Each one of
them has been taken out of order. So we'll start with 1586, Appointing Kevin Peterman as a
member of the Suffolk County Vanderbilt Museum Commission (Trustee No. 3) (Pres. Off.)
And I'll make the motion.

LEG. HORSLEY:
Second.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Second by Legislator Horsley. All in favor? Opposed? This motion is approved. (VOTE: 6-0-0-0.
P.O. LINDSAY INCLUDED IN VOTE) Good luck and thank you.

1587, appointing Christopher M. Hahn as a member of the Suffolk County Vanderbilt
Museum Commission (Trustee No. 12) (Viloria-Fisher) Do I have a motion?

LEG. STERN:
Motion.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Motion by Legislator Stern, second by Legislator Horsley. All in favor? Opposed? 1587 is approved.
(VOTE: 6-0-0-0. P.O. LINDSAY INCLUDED IN VOTE)

1588, appointing David M. Bottomley as a member of the Suffolk County Vanderbilt
Museum Commission (Trustee No. 15) (Cooper) Motion by Legislator Barraga, second by
Legislator Horsley. All in favor? Opposed? 1588 is approved. (VOTE: 6-0-0-0. P.O. LINDSAY
INCLUDED IN VOTE)

1589, appointing Elizabeth Jean Cambria as a member of the Suffolk County Vanderbilt
Museum Commission (Trustee No. 6) (Cooper) I'll make a motion, second by Legislator Stern.
All in favor? Opposed? 1589 is approved. (VOTE: 6-0-0-0. P.O. LINDSAY INCLUDED IN
VOTE).

I don't believe it's necessary unless the Committee disagrees for you to come to the long General
Meeting on Tuesday. Thank you very much for serving.

Okay, before we go into the agenda, I see Carolyn Hart here, representatives from the Vanderbilt.
Did you want to address? Did you want to come for a few questions?

MS. GHIORSI HART:
Yes, I didn't know if there were any questions on the status of our star projector.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Give us the run down on that. Is that the Goto?

MS. GHIORSI HART:
The replacement for the Goto projector.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Goto.

MS. GHIORSI HART:
Yes. As of May 25th the Audiovisual Imagineering Company, which is the American based company
for Konica/Minolta was notified that they're the apparent successful proposals for the -- proposal for
the planetarium upgrade. So things have moved forward. We did meet. DPW is going over the
contracts right now. They expect the contract to be out of DPW by the end of next week and then it
will go to the County Attorney's Office and hopefully we'll have a contract with this company very
shortly.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
How long do you think before we actually receive the projector?

MS. GHIORSI HART:
It will be about 12 months from the time the contract is signed.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Moving right along.

MS. GHIORSI HART:
Yes. And we're very excited. Konica/Minolta's equipment is stellar. I did see a number of
planetariums of our size in Japan and it offers a really exciting experience. And the full dome video
equipment, sky scan also was our top choice. So the Vanderbilt's very happy that we'll be getting
this equipment.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
It seems like we've been talking about this forever and maybe it's finally come to fruition.

Does anybody have any questions? Anybody have any questions?

LEG. COOPER:
Yes.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Legislator Cooper.

LEG. COOPER:
Yes, Madam Chair. Thank you. I'm not on this Committee but the Vanderbilt Museum is in my
district. And a number of questions have come up over the recent months. And I thought I could
take this opportunity to try to address some of them. I also had a question for Noel Gish. Noel, if
you wouldn't mind coming up, I have a question for you.

I had questions regarding Carol Hart's employment and contract history. Carol was hired back in
October 2006 as Director of Special Projects. She was promoted to Acting Executive Director of the
museum in August of 2007. And on October 22nd of 2008 she was named Executive Director by a
motion of the Board of Trustees.

My question involves the contract that Carol was given, a three year contract retroactively. A review
of the verbatim Vanderbilt Board of Trustee minutes for the months between Carol Hart being
named Executive Director back in October of 2008 and the signing of the contract, that you and
Carol signed, does not indicate any discussion by the Board of this contract nor do the minutes
reflect any motions or vote by the Board in this matter.

And in the minutes of an October 21st, 2009 meeting you stated "we have completed our contract
with Carol. Carol has signed her contract with the Vanderbilt until October 2011. That contract was
reviewed by members of the Oversight Committee."

Now I checked with the head of the Legislative Oversight Committee. And he says that that's not
true, that they never did review -- have the opportunity to review that contract.

Could you clarify that for me? Because the reason this is of concern is that there's a Memorandum
of Understanding between Suffolk County and the Trustees. And it explicitly states in that MOU that
prior to entering into any personnel service or consulting contract, the museum shall notify the
Oversight Committee of its intention to enter into such a contract.

MR. GISH:
When I was placed on the board in 2008 and then given the position of the President of the Board of
Trustees on 2009, we were in a state of sort of flux, I would say, at that stage of the game. We had
no permanent Executive Director. Carol was taking that role. I felt the institution needed some
stability. At that stage of the game I met with Terry Pearsall in his office and expressed my desire
to move ahead with creating some stability on site. And that was to try and fix three positions.

One, to place Carol in as an Executive Director at that stage of the game, to solidify a position for
the Head of Grounds, who I thought at that stage of the game, we would lose since I was asked to
give a recommendation for another job that he was -- could be taking. And as a person who was --
and also an additional staff member who was in charge of the planetarium. I felt at that stage of the
game those three people were key to that institution, at least at that stage of the game to establish,
again, stability during that time period.

The Oversight Committee, when I met with Terry Pearsall in his office, I also met with Lance
Reinheimer from the Budget Review Office to express to them my desire to move forward with a
contract for Carol to bring about that stability with no increase in pay. I expressed to them at that
stage of the game she would be moving from the Assistant Director position to a Director position to
give me the knowledge that she would not be looking for another position outside the Vanderbilt and
I would be left as a brand new President of the Board of Trustees with no one in power and a staff
that was severely depleted.

I ran a contract passed -- I ran a contract past George Nolan at his office to see whether in fact that
was acceptable on the County level, to make sure there were no glitches on my part. That contract
was reviewed. It came back to me. I met in Executive Session with the Trustees. I then had a
separate meeting with the officers, the Vice President, first and second, Treasurer and Secretary,
discussed with them what I thought was the need to, again, bring about that level of stability at this
stage of the game.

The contract was a short term contract, much less than other directors are given at other
institutions. I felt that my term could be short lived, too. So I would want to extend my term past
the Director's term. But we could move forward in a number of fronts -- to move -- to move the
Vanderbilt at that of the game with an Executive Director in position with some knowledge that she
would be there for a while and I would not be looking for a new Executive Director.

But there were individuals who were involved in that discussion. And I did not move independently
outside of the Legislative staff. And I kept everybody in the loop who I felt was necessary for me to
move forward. I could not give any raises and I did not. And that contract was discussed with Mr.
Pearsall and with the advice of Lance Reinheimer to see whether in fact I could proceed on that.

LEG. MONTANO:
Madam Chair, from the corner here? Would you say suffer an interruption, Mr. Cooper? This is all
very interesting but it's not on the agenda. And I'm just wondering where this is going and why
we're discussing it now, particularly in light that we're half an hour over into our other Committee. I
was just wondering if this is something that could maybe be taken up at a later point or where are
we going with this? Is there --

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Well, it's not on the agenda but Legislator Cooper asked for permission to ask questions.

LEG. MONTANO:
Well, I understand that. I'm just wondering where it's going, Jon, because I don't have any
background on this so --

LEG. COOPER:
Well, this is the Committee that has oversight for the Vanderbilt Museum and I'm trying to -- and
unfortunately I won't have time to get to all the questions that I had wanted to raise. And I'm not
sure what a more appropriate setting might be. But if you could indulge me for another ten
minutes?

LEG. MONTANO:
I'm not the Chairperson. I'm just curious.

LEG. COOPER:
Ten minutes?

LEG. MONTANO:
Ten minutes?

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Eight minutes.

LEG. COOPER:
Then I'm going to get right back to this. Eight minutes. Thank you.

Noel, so just to confirm, so this was not officially brought before the Oversight Committee?

MR. GISH:
How would you mean officially brought before the Oversight Committee? Was anybody on the
Oversight Committee aware of what was taking place at the Vanderbilt concerning granting Carol
Hart a position as Executive Director? If Terry Pearsall, who is the aide to the Presiding Officer
William Lindsay, is not in the loop, and I believe Mr. Pearsall was a member of the Oversight
Committee, I believe I informed individuals at your -- on your staff of what I was attempting to do
at that stage of the game concerning the positions for both Head Groundskeeper and Planetarium
Director and executive staff.

If running the contract past George Nolan, who's Counsel to the Legislature, and bringing in the
advice and counsel of a member of the Budget Review Office to question whether in fact I could
legitimately grant those positions within the framework of the resolution that did not allow me to
give any raises at that stage of the game, whether I could grant $1500 stipends to keep key people
on the staff, which is what I did do, this excludes the Executive Director -- those were only for two,
planetarium director and a grounds crew supervisor, if those exclude the Oversight Committee, then,
you could probably say that no one on the Oversight Committee knew about it except for the Budget
Review Office, the Counsel to the Legislature and the aide to the Presiding Officer.

LEG. COOPER:
Thank you, Noel.

Carol, could you come up for one minute? I just have a couple of questions for you.

You had spoke earlier briefly, giving us an update on the Goto Projector. Could you tell me about
the report that was prepared by two of your experienced planetarium staff and delivered to and
approved by the Board of Trustees in June of 2007? And that report was a very detailed analysis of
what the planetarium needed and was a precursor to an RFP drafted by the two key employees who
work at the planetarium.


MS. GHIORSI HART:
The RFP that went out for this was drafted by DPW as well as {Kuso}, an astronomy consultant that
was hired. And the two employees you're referring to did do original research, did travel around
both to Germany and Japan. And they researched two companies.

There was a third company that they were not aware of. When I went to -- when I became acting
Executive Director, there was an international planetary society meeting; it meets every two years in
Chicago. I did go at that time to talk to experts in the field, to the vendors. I went with the two
experts -- with our two employees that you're talking about. And at that meeting I discovered that,
in fact, there was a third company, Konica/Minolta that did, in fact, manufacture equipment capable
of projecting stars at the size dome we had.

My person on staff wasn't as aware of this because there aren't that many -- there aren't large
planetariums in this country that use this equipment. And it was not on his radar. So that was a
company he missed. When we went through at that time in talking to many, many professionals for
other large museums, as part of that same trip, I went to Nashville to a planetarium similar to our
size, which just opened -- actually it was a couple of weeks before their grand opening with a new
Goto projector, talked to the Director there, talked to a lot of professionals from around the world
who were very familiar with the Vanderbilt Museum. The Vanderbilt Museum has an international
reputation.

I talked with someone who had come out to consult in the early 2000's on it. I got
recommendations for two men that everyone pointed me to, to work as a consultant not only to
develop an RFP but more importantly, and my experience at the Vanderbilt taught me that this
would be important, to make sure that the equipment that was delivered was installed correctly, was
tested. And every director I talked to of major institutions felt that a consultant with expertise
would be an important person throughout the process, not just the writing of the RFP but also
on-site installation and following it all through.

LEG. COOPER:
And, Carol, if I could interrupt, in addition to traveling to Tennessee, you also traveled to Germany
and Japan after that original report was submitted and approved by the Board. Can you explain why
you took those two international trips? And also address what qualifications you have to assess and
analyze planetarium equipment?

MS. GHIORSI HART:
I made trips to see the three companies involved. I wanted to see for myself since ultimately as
Director I have the responsibility for understanding and knowing what I put out there. I traveled to
Japan to see Konica/Minolta, to Nashville to see Goto projectors, in Germany to see {Zeis}
projectors. So that the end of the day I had seen -- and also in Chicago a {Megastar} projector so
that I had seen for myself planetarium projectors that we would be bidding on.

I don't have the expertise to make these kinds of decisions, which is why I felt we should hire a
consultant to work with us. In talking to the people in Chicago, I didn't feel that our -- my staff had
the full range of experience having local experience just with our projector in the northeast, that we
would greatly benefit from hiring an expert with international experience. And that is why I
recommended to DPW that this might be the way to go.

And in July of 2008 DPW met with the expert that had been recommended to me. And following
that meeting I feel they were all in strong agreement that hiring a consultant with expertise would
be the correct way to go.

LEG. COOPER:
Carol, the reason I'm raising this issue is that one of the most important projects visa vie the
Vanderbilt Museum is the new Goto projector. And the Legislature has grown increasingly concerned
about the delays in this project moving forward. And my understanding is that your personal
analysis of the projected technology, which you just described, delayed the overall project by more
than two years. And as you said eventually an independent consultant had to be hired any way to
write the RFP. So how do you justify spending County dollars on a consultant to hire -- to write an
RFP, number one, when you have two employees on staff who are qualified to do so? And who had
actually prepared the preliminary planetarium report for you previously?

MS. GHIORSI HART:
First of all, my involvement certainly did not delay that project anywhere near that amount of time.
The second half of the money was appropriated in, I believe, January of 2008. There was probably
some months delay as I was talking to my staff. And I felt that we needed more expertise in going
to that meeting. I came back fully convinced, in fact, we did need more expertise. The fact that
the research that they had done did not include Konica/Minolta was a little bit of a red flag to me.
And that's why I felt we needed this outside consultant to be brought in.
The last two years it has been completely out of the Vanderbilt's hands. As of July 2008 DPW has
been in control of this project. And the delays have come mostly through -- time for DPW to
develop RFP's, with things to go through legal channels. There's several RFP's that had to go out.
The Vanderbilt has not really been involved in any of these things to move it along or to delay it.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Legislator Cooper, unfortunately EEE was supposed to start at two.

LEG. COOPER:
One more minute just to address a fundraising issue, if I might.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Okay. Can I just back up for one second? You stated on the record that you traveled to Germany
and to Japan to look at the companies that make the Goto projector?

MS. GHIORSI HART:
Companies that make star projectors that would replace the Goto Projector.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
So you traveled to these countries to check on the companies? But then --

MS. GHIORSI HART:
I was invited by companies to meet with their technicians, their high level personnel, to join other
museum professionals, planetarium Directors to take a tour of facilities in Japan as well as in
Germany.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
So there were other museum directors that went on the tour with you.

MS. GHIORSI HART:
To Japan, yes, there was about six or seven of us.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Was that -- and I'm sorry, Legislator Cooper, just quickly was that to determine if the companies
were, in fact, solid companies or were you looking at the projector to see if -- although you
determined you couldn't, you needed a consultant for the projector --

MS. GHIORSI HART:
Obviously I was gathering information. I was taking pictures. I was looking at the technology. I
was not playing, but I was hands on with the controls.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
But was that an expense of the Vanderbilt those two trips?

MS. GHIORSI HART:
No, those two trips were paid by the companies. I felt that in each case the three leading companies
had paid for me and they were anxious for me to see that they had --

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Okay, I'm glad you put that on the record.

MS. GHIORSI HART:
And again to bring back -- to bring back information, bring back pictures. I was excited not only for
the technology, I was looking at their seats, I was looked at rugs on the floors.
CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Okay.

MS. GHIORSI HART:
It was a wonderful opportunity for me to also meet with other planetarium professionals.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
I'm glad I asked the question.

MS. GHIORSI HART:
And talk to them.


CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Legislator Cooper, really quickly.

LEG. COOPER:
Very briefly. You're also well aware of the budget deficit that we're facing and the impact it has on
funding the Vanderbilt Museum in recent years.

Back in 2006 the revenue reported from membership, special events and fundraising, private
fundraising was $114,000. You were hired as Director of Special Projects in October of 2006. And
in 2007 revenue from these sources declined to only $59,000. In 2008 the revenue was 60,000, but
20,000 of that was a holiday fundraiser that the Presiding Officer generously hosted with little or no
help from the Vanderbilt. So it really netted only about $40,000. And your estimate for 2009 is
about $32,000 so we're certainly going in the wrong direction. Can you explain this drop off in
fundraising revenue?

MS. GHIORSI HART:
I have to go back and look at 2006. There have been some major -- I suspect, there was a major
donation. In fact I know there was a major donation by Bill Rogers associated with it in 2006. I
would certainly say we have been in an economic crisis. And certainly that is part of what's going on
at the Vanderbilt.

I would also say in an effort to tighten up and rethink the organization, we've had to work with much
fewer people. And it's been a tough time. We have made -- I have made some hires in the
development department within the last few months. We do expect that we're going to be seeing a
big turnaround.

In addition every organization relies on their board. Our board has been shrinking as you know. I'm
very happy and excited about the four new appointees today. That will certainly help the Director
along, can't get out and do well, and we don't have a special events person, we don't have a
membership person. It's been difficult to grow. We've been shrinking.

But, again, we -- I've made steps. Finally we've been through the worst of it. I have hired a
part-time grant writer. She's been great getting out there, making phone calls, meeting with more
people myself; hired someone to handle public relations, who's also going to be working on
fundraising events. We have an event on June 17th, which you're all invited to called An Evening
With Friends, just to -- we've invited potential sponsors, local businessmen. Again, our new grant
writer was able to make contact. And one of our biggest problems right now with funding agencies
and the philanthropic department of some of the banks and things is that the Vanderbilt right now
has a terrible reputation as being an institution in crisis, a possibly failing one.

So we have to turn that around, get the word out that, yeah, we had a tough go of it, we've made it
through. We're coming back strong. We've introduced a lot of new programs. Starting this month
we have a partnership going with our royal productions affiliated with Suffolk County Community
College. They'll be performing Cyrano De Bergerac. We have Shakespeare this summer, a number
of other initiatives that we're pursuing. And you will see a difference. We have finally gone through
our retrenchment period. And I feel we'll be able to come out with it.

When I started there were almost 20 people --

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Actually I have to cut this off. I really do because --

LEG. COOPER:
Madam Chair, thank you for your indulgence. I have many more questions that'll have to wait for
next time.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
But here's the thing. There's obviously a lot of questions and some issues that you want to address.
If you want to put this on the agenda for the next meeting, we can certainly do that. We can be
prepared for it. I know, Legislator Montano, you did have one thing?

LEG. MONTANO:
Yes. Since Legislator Cooper opened the door and the issue and to cut to the chase, would it be
possible to get from you the number of trips, where you've traveled, when you were there, how
long, who paid and why you were there so that at the next meeting if we have questions -- would
that be appropriate? And would that help solve the issues that --

MR. GISH:
The amount of money that came out of county funds for those trips was zero. Zero.

LEG. MONTANO:
Right.

MR. GISH:
There was no County money that was used to go to Germany --

LEG. MONTANO:
I'm not questioning --

MR. GISH:
-- to go to Japan.

LEG. MONTANO:
I'm not questioning -- sir, if I may, sir --

MR. GISH:
The attempt here was to try -- no, no, let me finish.

LEG. MONTANO:
If I may, sir, if I may finish sir, sir, if I may finish my question.

MR. GISH:
The attempt was to try -- I am answering the question. You're looking to go on the record to see
how much Carol Hart has charged the County.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Just let Legislator Montano finish.

LEG. MONTANO:
I'm not -- I didn't ask you a question, sir. I didn't ask you a question and I don't want an answer
from you. What I asked was whether or not it would be possible to get this in writing for the next
meeting? A simple yes or no will suffice.

MR. GISH:
We will -- we will get you the information in writing that there was no County money used to go to
any of the events to try and get a good projector.

LEG. MONTANO:
Would you also indicate how much was spent from the Vanderbilt money or would you not?

MR. GISH:
There was no money spent out of the Vanderbilt funds for any trips to any of the projector.

LEG. MONTANO:
I heard that just a second ago. My question now is whether or not you would indicate how much
was spent from the Vanderbilt funds? You keep repeating that --

MR. GISH:
For what?

LEG. MONTANO:
I don't want argue with you. I'm not here to argue.

MR. GISH:
No, I just want to -- I want to be clear. The Vanderbilt funds spent on what?

LEG. MONTANO:
On the trips that she took, if there were any, that was spent by Vanderbilt funds.

MS. GHIORSI HART:
There have been zero dollars spent on those trips.

LEG. MONTANO:
Okay.

MS. GHIORSI HART:
And I know I mentioned I go to conventions. I just got back from LA. Zero dollars from the
Vanderbilt.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Wait, hold on one second. Here what they're asking. We understand there was no money spent.
All you want it is in writing?

LEG. MONTANO:
That's all I'm asking for. This way we can cut to the chase --

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Correct? Okay. That's okay. That's done.

LEG. MONTANO:
And I can see it in black and white. I don't want to debate it with you here.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Okay. That's all. All right. Just in writing.
LEG. MONTANO:
I'm already here longer than I want to be.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Also, if there any questions in the next two weeks, I'm sure your telephone lines are open, I'm sure
that we can -- if there's anything to clear up during the next two weeks, anybody can call Carol,
anybody can call Noel, I'm sure that that can happen as well rather than waiting the two weeks. So
those lines are always open. And, Legislator Cooper, if you want to address this in two weeks --
Legislator Cooper, if you want to address this in two weeks, call my office, we'll set it up and we'll do
this in a more controlled -- not in a rush kind of manner.

LEG. COOPER:
Okay, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
And I'm sorry about the rush but we were running so late with Ways and Means and everything is
backed up. So can we go to the agenda and finish the agenda?

                   TABLED RESOLUTIONS

First on the agenda under tabled resolutions is 1105, waiving the Vanderbilt Museum's
reimbursement for self-insurance (Pres. Off.)

LEG. MONTANO:
Motion to table.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Motion to table by Legislator Montano. Do I have a second? Second by Legislator Stern. All in
favor? Opposed? 1105 is tabled. (VOTE: 6-0-0-0. P.O. LINDSAY INCLUDED IN VOTE)

1418, to establish Community and Youth Services Program for Suffolk County Residents
and Northern Brookhaven Little League at Sheep Pasture Road in Port Jefferson/Setauket,
New York. (Viloria-Fisher) Counsel, this looks to me like the Little League is going to maintain
the sports fields, take care of all the facilities?

MR. NOLAN:
Actually the agreement -- they would actually create the fields, maintain the fields, operate the
operation. If --

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
No fiscal impact to the County; is that what I'm seeing?

MR. NOLAN:
That's the idea, that they would incur the cost to develop and maintain the fields.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Motion to approve by Legislator Lindsay, second by myself. All in favor? Opposed? 1418 is
approved. (VOTE: 6-0-0-0. P.O. LINDSAY INCLUDED IN VOTE)

1572, amending the 2010 Capital Budget and Program, accepting a Community
Enhancement Facilities Assistance Program (CEFAP) Grant in the amount of $125,000
from the Dormitory Authority of the State of New York for equipment and appropriating
funds for revenue collection at parks facilities (CP 7186) (Co. Exec.) I'll make a motion,
second by Legislator Horsley. All in favor? Opposed? 1572 is approved. (VOTE: 6-0-0-0. P.O.
LINDSAY INCLUDED IN VOTE)
1573, amending the 2010 Capital Budget and Program. And accepting and appropriating
an Environmental Protection Fund (EPF) Grant in the amount of $175,000 from the New
York State Department of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation for the restoration
of Sagtikos Manor, West Bay Shore (CP 7164) (Co. Exec.) Motion by Legislator Barraga?

LEG. BARRAGA:
No.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
No motion.

LEG. BARRAGA:
I have a question first.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Let me just get a motion for discussion. I'll make a motion, second by Legislator Horsley. Legislator
Barraga.

LEG. BARRAGA:
Commissioner, can you give me a little detail in terms of what the 175,000 is specifically for at
Sagtikos? And also, I've been taking a look at this under the heading of construction in the
resolution, total estimated cost $725,000. Can you put that in context for me?

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
This particular grant is for restoration of the formal gardens, portions of the grounds, the driveway,
some of the external facilities that are part of the Sagtikos Manor complex. It would include
installation of -- actually re-installation of an irrigation system. The old irrigation system is quite old
there and needed to be replaced and would restore that to its former grandeur.


LEG. BARRAGA:
That's all part of the 175?

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
Yes, it's part of the 175.

LEG. BARRAGA:
Now what about the five and the quarter that remains?

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
The five and a quarter I would ask Rich Martin, just come up for it.

MR. MARTIN:
Excuse me. Are those the funds that are in the capital program for the site? I don't have the paper
work with me.

LEG. BARRAGA:
Under the resolution total estimated cost is $725,000, of which 175,00 is being received from the
state. And I'm just questioning, you know, what is the other 550 slated for?

MR. MARTIN:
Okay. The full project, again, without the paper work in front of me it's hard to comment, but the
program there, the restoration program also includes the restoration of the carriage house for the
visitors center so that application probably explains to the state all the restoration initiatives on that
site. And that this -- this grant program at the time was for landscape restoration. It was a priority
at that point. So we were -- that's why we highlighted the restoration needs as part of the total
restoration of the property.

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
Legislator Barraga, this remaining balance of funding as Rich alluded to does refer to the capital
project 7164. That includes both Sagtikos Manor and Gardiner's County Park which is adjacent to
the site.

LEG. BARRAGA:
7164 covers --

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
It covers both Sagtikos Manor and Gardiner County Park on the southside --

LEG. BARRAGA:
What kind of projects are you talking about?

COMMISSIONER PAVACIC:
It covers everything, all capital projects there, reconstruction, installation of new facilities including
fencing, restoration of the Sagtikos Manor structure. It includes the historic -- the garage there at
the site, as I mentioned before the historic grounds and gardens and so forth. And this is the total
amount that has been allocated in the capital budget over time, over years towards this.

Now the last several years there was money in prior years, the last several years for this capital
project line, but that was not appropriated due to the fiscal situation.

LEG. BARRAGA:
Because if I recall correctly, you know, the County has spent so far on Sagtikos Manor, they've
invested well over $2 million. I mean, the purchase and there was additional state funding that
came in. I think member items from different senators. This thing seems to be never ending. I
mean I would think that at some point, you know, the people who wanted this to be taken care of
and preserved, they should have made, I would think, some sort of a commitment that after the
County purchased it, they would make an effort to take care of the normal maintenance and repairs
of the building. And certainly that's not the case.

I mean this seems to be continuous never ending in terms of the amount of money going either from
the County or the State or some other facility to keep this place going. And how often is it open? I
mean basically you open it up sporadically and a couple of tours of kids coming in from the local
schools. I mean it's a very expensive venture here.

MR. MARTIN:
Well, initially we're still doing like the restoration that is needed since the County acquisition. And
we have done the majority of the work. The exterior of the main house, and yes, the Historic
Society has a contract with the County to run the site. Got a $250,000 state grant that went
towards that restoration.

The project, as you're noting, is expensive. It's a ten acre historic site with a very large estate home
that dates back to 1692 with many additions to it. The County Historic Program is -- the sites are
run by volunteers. And the site is open in the season -- in the summer season. And also any
groups can call to get a special tour. A school group.

LEG. BARRAGA:
Is there a not-for-profit that raises money to help offet the --

MR. MARTIN:
They do raise some money but they don't have any paid staff. It's all done on a volunteer basis so
they do have a number of programs especially in the summer season that do bring additional funds
in. And they do provide all the tours. We don't have any Parks staff at all that provide those tours.

LEG. BARRAGA:
Have they raised any money for repair and maintenance?

MR. MARTIN:
Yes, they have.

LEG. BARRAGA:
How much?

MR. MARTIN:
I don't have that number with me. I can get that for you.

LEG. BARRAGA:
Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON NOWICK:
Okay. I have a motion and a second. All in favor? Opposed? A motion and a second for 1573. All
in favor? Opposed? 1573 is approved. (VOTE: 6-0-0-0. P.O. LINDSAY INCLUDED IN VOTE)

And with that this meeting is adjourned.



THE MEETING CONCLUDED AT 3:07 PM
{ } DENOTES SPELLED PHONETICALLY

								
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