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IN THE CITY HALL OF SUMNER COUNTY, STATE OF by yad15518

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									 1           IN THE CITY HALL OF SUMNER COUNTY,
                      STATE OF TENNESSEE
 2   ____________________________________________________

 3

 4                  TDOT COUNCIL MEETING

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 6                 Case No.83950-1552-04

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     ____________________________________________________
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13                TDOT SUMNER COUNTY MEETING

14
               BE IT REMEMBERED that the above-captioned
15   cause came on for hearing, on this, the 25th day of
     September, 2007, when and where the following
16   proceedings were had, to wit:

17

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20

21   _____________________________________________________

22                 ELITE REPORTING SERVICES
                          MISTY BRIGHAM
23                    Associate Reporter
                        P.O. Box 292382
24                Nashville, Tennessee 37229
                     missam624@yahoo.com
25                       (615) 595-0073



          Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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       A P P E A R A N C E S

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                  MR.   JOE CARPENTER

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               MR.   SHANE HESTER

                  MR.   DAN DOWNS

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               MR.   NICK TUTTLE

                  MR.   AARON ALLISON

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      Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1                                     * * *


 2                P   R    O   C   E     E    D   I   N    G   S

 3                    (WHEREUPON, the following proceedings

 4   were in a council meeting to the open public:)

 5                        JOE CARPENTER:          My name is Joe            05:57:04

 6   Carpenter and I'm the civil engineering manager for                    05:57:04

 7   TDOT Design Division.         Again, thank you for coming              05:57:04

 8   out.     We kind of got an informal start because the                  05:57:10

 9   mayor is in a city council meeting and they wanted a 05:57:12

10   short briefing here, so I apologize for any                            05:57:12

11   inconvenience on that.                                                 05:57:18

12                        What we're going to do is we're going 05:57:21

13   to make just a short presentation of the proposed                      05:57:23

14   improvements of what we're doing and then we're                        05:57:23

15   going to open it up and we'll take any of your                         05:57:27

16   questions that you would like to put forward at that 05:57:30

17   time.     And then, we will -­ after all the questions                 05:57:32

18   have been voiced from the floor, we'll go ahead and                    05:57:36

19   we'll just let everybody look around and look at the 05:57:40

20   drawings, and we'll respond one on one at that                         05:57:42

21   point.                                                                 05:57:46

22                        We are out here tonight for the Big               05:57:46

23   Station Camp Boulevard project with Cages Bend tying 05:57:48

24   into State Route 6, Gallatin Road.                   We do seek your   05:57:48

25   comments tonight on this.               Any input you have, if         05:57:55



              Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1   you like it, dislike it, or any other questions you     05:57:58

 2   have.    And there's several methods we're using        05:58:01

 3   tonight to get your comments.    One, we have a court   05:58:04

 4   reporter here to my left, she will take your            05:58:06

 5   comments.    She will also be recording part of the     05:58:09

 6   transcript and the questions.    So, when we do get to 05:58:09

 7   the questions and answers, if you would before you      05:58:09

 8   ask a question state your name so she can hear you.     05:58:09

 9                    Also, in the handouts that we have     05:58:18

10   tonight with some information in it for you, we also 05:58:20

11   have a comment card.    And these are tri-fold, so you 05:58:23

12   can fold them up.    If you don't want to leave them    05:58:26

13   tonight at the sign-in table, you can just fold it      05:58:29

14   up and put a stamp on it and send it to us and it       05:58:33

15   will become part of the transcript as well.    And      05:58:36

16   you're free to take extra of these when you leave       05:58:36

17   out if there's other people and they would like to      05:58:39

18   voice comments, you are free to pick them up and do     05:58:39

19   that.                                                   05:58:47

20                    Again, this project is a partnership   05:58:48

21   between the City of Gallatin and TDOT.    It's a        05:58:49

22   local-interstate connector road.    It's approximately 05:58:53

23   two-tenths of a mile.    Most all of the work, 99       05:58:53

24   percent of it, is going to be taking place on Big       05:58:53

25   Station Camp Boulevard and Cages Bend.    The only      05:59:02



             Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1   work on Gallatin Road essentially will be                05:59:05

 2   reinstalling the signal equipment and then milling       05:59:05

 3   the top surface and re-striping it for the               05:59:13

 4   appropriate turn lane with the relocation of the         05:59:18

 5   intersection.                                            05:59:21

 6                   Also, as well, just a side light of      05:59:22

 7   information, this project right now is tentatively       05:59:25

 8   scheduled for sometime in the calendar year of 2009. 05:59:27

 9   So probably towards the summer or latter fall of         05:59:32

10   that, of 2009 is when it will go to construction.        05:59:32

11                   Again, this is a partnership with        05:59:39

12   TDOT and the City of Gallatin splitting the cost         05:59:41

13   50/50 for this improvement.     At this time, I'm going 05:59:44

14   to ask Shane Hester to come up and briefly describe      05:59:48

15   the improvements to you.                                 05:59:52

16                   SHANE HESTER:    Thanks, Joe.   As Joe   05:59:56

17   stated, the work starts here on Big Station Camp         05:59:57

18   Boulevard.   It was about a thousand foot from the       06:00:00

19   intersection of State Route 6 and Gallatin Road.         06:00:03

20   What we're proposing to do is to tye into the            06:00:03

21   existing which is three lanes and come here a            06:00:03

22   thousand feet and go past a soccer complex and           06:00:03

23   transition out to five-lane section which has been       06:00:09

24   recommended by our traffic design people.                06:00:09

25                   And over here on Cages Bend Road, to     06:00:18



           Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1   start here about 500 feet back from the intersection 06:00:18

 2   and work ourselves towards Gallatin Road.      And we're 06:00:18

 3   going to fork out the road and it's going to be          06:00:27

 4   three lanes and two for the traffic lane.      Here on   06:00:29

 5   the alignment as you can see -­ I know everybody         06:00:35

 6   can't see this, but the existing Big Station Camp        06:00:41

 7   Boulevard and Cages Bend Road, they kind of tangle       06:00:44

 8   the intersection here in State Route 6 and Gallatin      06:00:49

 9   Road.    And I will propose to realign both roads so     06:00:51

10   they intersect at 90-degree angles (indicating)          06:00:53

11   which will increase our safety and operation.            06:00:59

12                    Mainly, on this property, and I just    06:00:59

13   heard Joe state to the mayor that this property here 06:00:59

14   is on the historic registers and has not been listed 06:00:59

15   as a historic property, just potentially historic on 06:01:19

16   the nursery here (indicating).    And we're staying      06:01:19

17   off of that.    The alignment moves this way             06:01:26

18   (indicating) to kind stay off of that, and we're         06:01:29

19   using this slope in construction that's here with        06:01:31

20   anything we're doing that affects the nursery.           06:01:31

21                    Basically, that's -­ we've extended     06:01:31

22   the box here that comes to meet State Route 6            06:01:39

23   (indicating) and like Joe said, 99 percent of the        06:01:39

24   work occurs on both Big Station Camp Boulevard and       06:01:46

25   Cages Bend Road.    The other 1 percent is minority      06:01:47



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 1   work here on State Route 6.      That pretty much covers 06:01:47

 2   it.                                                       06:01:47

 3                   JOE CARPENTER:     And again, the         06:01:47

 4   traffic -­ the existing traffic will be maintained        06:02:04

 5   during the whole construction process.      Just to       06:02:06

 6   point some things out before question and answer,         06:02:12

 7   when you come up here we have this area where you         06:02:13

 8   can see the improvements.     This is a bond copy, just 06:02:16

 9   in plan format that shows the same type thing with        06:02:20

10   the proposed typical sections, how many lanes             06:02:20

11   through there -­                                          06:02:20

12                   And then this to my right over here       06:02:21

13   at the acquisition table which we'll color the            06:02:21

14   different tracts that are affected in different           06:02:21

15   colors and you can look up here and see how much we       06:02:21

16   estimate the acquired right-of-way easement for that 06:02:26

17   as well.   That's, in essence, all that we have for       06:02:41

18   presentation for such a small project.      But at this   06:02:47

19   point we would open it up for any questions that you 06:02:50

20   may have, and again we will ask if you would stand        06:02:52

21   up and state your name and then your question.            06:02:52

22                   DAN DOWNS:    My name is Dan Downs and    06:02:52

23   my question is two-fold.     One having to do with the    06:02:59

24   extension of the box culvert which is going to            06:03:03

25   extend the drainage area that's at the south of           06:03:03



           Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1   Cages Bend Road.     How exactly are you going to         06:03:03


 2   handle that?     I don't understand when you said you     06:03:03

 3   were going to extend the box culvert how far back         06:03:03

 4   are you going to extend it.        And I guess, in        06:03:03

 5   essence, I'm asking will that take out that drainage 06:03:03

 6   ditch there on the side of the road or will that all 06:03:03

 7   be boxed now?                                             06:03:03

 8                     JOE CARPENTER:     No, sir.   We will   06:03:03

 9   extend this approximately -­ looking at this -­           06:03:03

10   about 125 feet diagonally to get it over to where -­ 06:03:03

11   a new ditch.     We will relocate that channel on the     06:03:03

12   side of Cages Bend Road and tie it back into where        06:03:03

13   we tie into the existing channel.        Because of the   06:03:03

14   feature and for environmental permits, we can't           06:03:03

15   close all of this in box.      And we will pay a high     06:03:51

16   enough permit fee which is necessary to do this with 06:03:54

17   this box culvert.                                         06:03:57

18                     But from the other aspect of it down    06:03:57

19   Cages Bend, we will have to replicate that and            06:04:00

20   probably plant trees back in there to get a permit.       06:04:01

21   Does that answer your question?                           06:04:01

22                     DAN DOWNS:   Uh-huh, in that regard.    06:04:01

23   The second question is someone had mentioned that         06:04:01

24   you had done a hydrology study on that area in            06:04:12

25   there.     Is my understanding, if I'm correct, that      06:04:12



              Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1   that road is below -- the existing Cages Bend Road      06:04:22


 2   is below the hundred year flood plane, is that an       06:04:22

 3   accurate statement?                                     06:04:29

 4                  NICK TUTTLE:     Well, the flood study   06:04:29

 5   in the area shows the flood plane to be completely      06:04:29

 6   on the other side of 31E.     However, the elevation    06:04:29

 7   shows probably about 455 feet and the current road      06:04:29

 8   elevations are a little bit lower than that.            06:04:29

 9                  JOE CARPENTER:     And our last          06:04:39

10   speaker's name was?                                     06:04:39

11                  NICK TUTTLE:     I'm Nick Tuttle with    06:04:29

12   the City of Gallatin.

13                  JOE CARPENTER:     Okay.   Thank you.    06:04:52

14                  As far as that our hydraulic             06:04:52

15   section -­ looking at this -­ because mainly the        06:04:54

16   work we're doing on Cages Bend is strictly an           06:04:54

17   intersection and we're just trying to tie it back       06:04:54

18   down to the existing.   So we're not looking to make    06:04:54

19   any improvement back down to Cages Bend except          06:05:05

20   strictly at Gallatin Road.                              06:05:05

21                  And so the hydraulics that we look       06:05:05

22   at, what our hydraulic section looks at, is that        06:05:12

23   this waterflow coming in and being transferred          06:05:14

24   underneath Gallatin Road.     So their hydraulics,      06:05:14

25   they're not looking back here at Cages Bend.            06:05:18



           Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1                     DAN DOWNS:     Well, even at the          06:05:19

 2   intersection there, it's still below the hundred            06:05:26

 3   year flood plane and the road does flood there.             06:05:28

 4                     JOE CARPENTER:     Well, what I           06:05:28

 5   recommend too besides your comment here on this is          06:05:32

 6   if you would make out a comment card with that we           06:05:32

 7   can direct that again.     Because this process will        06:05:37

 8   continue with our hydraulic section as we continue          06:05:40

 9   with the development, they continue to do detail            06:05:40

10   study.     So, if there's some question along that way      06:05:42

11   or the City of Gallatin wants to look at this.              06:05:47

12   We're doing a partnership with them, so I would             06:05:49

13   encourage you to turn in a comment card along that          06:05:53

14   way and we'll pass that on to them.                         06:05:56

15                     NICK TUTTLE:     With your hydraulic      06:05:56

16   study, are you actually going to make a map                 06:05:59

17   amendment to the map?                                       06:05:59

18                     JOE CARPENTER:     I can't answer that.   06:06:00

19   John Zircle who is over our hydraulic section will          06:06:07

20   have to do that.     But again, if you would like to        06:06:09

21   add that in there, you know, and comment, we can            06:06:13

22   look at that and see.     But they're the ones that         06:06:16

23   will be addressing that.       So we would funnel that      06:06:18

24   question with them because they are the ones that           06:06:20

25   would provide those analysis for us.        We're capable   06:06:20



              Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1   of doing that, but we're structured and set up that      06:06:20

 2   way where we have a specific hydraulic section.          06:06:20

 3                    When it gets to this size structure     06:06:21

 4   they're supposed to do that work for us.      We can     06:06:21

 5   look at that with John, so you can make a comment        06:06:35

 6   card.    Any comment you have from the City of           06:06:37

 7   Gallatin we can funnel to him as well.                   06:06:37

 8                    Good questions.    Any other questions? 06:06:37

 9   Well, you can ask us on an individual basis, you can 06:06:54

10   also make any comments to the court reporter, and        06:06:57

11   also I encourage you, if you don't fill it out           06:06:59

12   tonight, take a comment card or several of them with 06:07:03

13   you and mail it back in to us.      I'm going to give    06:07:04

14   you one last call on questions.                          06:07:10

15                    AARON ALLISON:    My name is Aaron      06:07:11

16   Allison and I heard you say that this is expected to 06:07:11

17   be 2009.    Is there any possibility of that being       06:07:16

18   moved up through this partnership with the city, or      06:07:19

19   is there a particular reason why it's late of 2009       06:07:24

20   and why that couldn't happen sooner?                     06:07:28

21                    JOE CARPENTER:    That's a good         06:07:30

22   question.    Typically the process that we still have    06:07:32

23   to go through to develop this is we have to develop      06:07:32

24   a set of right-of-way plans which they will acquire      06:07:32

25   the property and negotiate that.      But also while     06:07:39



             Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1    that's going on, we have to secure permits.       And     06:07:42


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   part of that right-of-way process will be                 06:07:43


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   negotiations with the Corps of Engineers and that's       06:07:46


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   not been a speedy process, typically for us.              06:07:50


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                    And so, these timeframes are             06:07:51


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   estimated into this project-development schedule and 06:07:55


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   also time to allow us to work it out with them to         06:07:56


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   get the permits for this reconstruction along Cages       06:08:01


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   Bend and this relocation.    So that's why it's           06:08:02


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   targeted to '09.    Theoretically if those things went 06:08:07


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   as expeditiously as they could, it possibly could be 06:08:07


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   moved up, but the standard procedure normally it          06:08:13


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   doesn't happen that way.    Normally there's more         06:08:18


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   snags that pop up than we anticipate.      But those are 06:08:19


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   the main two things that we're dealing with.       It's   06:08:22


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   going to have to deal with the Corps of Engineers         06:08:25


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   and their requirements are going to have to deal          06:08:27


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   with them for this extreme location.                      06:08:27


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                    AARON ALLISON:   Okay.   You might have 06:08:31


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   addressed this with your comments to Dan and I might 06:08:34


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   not have understood completely.     You talked about      06:08:36


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   the boring underneath the road, are you working with 06:08:37


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   a utility district on that -­                             06:08:37

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                    JOE CARPENTER:   Boring under what       06:08:43

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   road?                                                     06:08:43



              Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1                     AARON ALLISON:   Underneath that road, 06:08:46


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   do you have any talks about that?                           06:08:46


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                    JOE CARPENTER:   Well, we have an          06:08:38


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   existing box culvert under Gallatin Road right now.          06:08:52


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                    AARON ALLISON:   Okay.                     06:08:54


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                    JOE CARPENTER:   All we're going to do 06:08:54


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   is extend it underneath Cages Bend to get it to line 06:08:54


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   up to pick up the water from the relocated ditch.           06:08:54


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                    AARON ALLISON:   Okay.     I just need     06:08:54


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   clarification on that.                                      06:08:54


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                    JOE CARPENTER:   Okay.     Does that       06:08:54


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   answer your --                                              06:08:54


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                    AARON ALLISON:   Uh-huh.                   06:08:54


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                    DAN DOWNS:   Dan Downs again.     Another 06:08:55


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   comment.   I don't see on the plans a box culvert           06:08:55


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   shown about 300 feet back from that intersection             06:08:55


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   which is already improved and permitted by the Corps 06:08:55


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   of Engineers.    Is that something --                       06:08:55


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                    JOE CARPENTER:   From what road?           06:09:25


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                    DAN DOWNS:   On Cages Bend.                06:09:25


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                    JOE CARPENTER:   Okay.     Well, we can    06:09:25


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   update our survey as we get information for that.          I 06:09:25


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   mean, the thing about this is something has to be           06:09:33


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   shared to us from the City of Gallatin or others for 06:09:35


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   us to be aware of that.                                     06:09:37




            Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1                     DAN DOWNS:   All right.   Thank you.      06:09:38


 2                     JOE CARPENTER:   Good questions.    Any   06:09:42

 3   other questions?     Well, if not I encourage you           06:09:45

 4   there's other materials, come up here, make yourself 06:09:51

 5   available, looking at the drawings, ask anyone with         06:09:56

 6   name badges any questions or myself, we'll try and          06:09:57

 7   answer them.     As you leave out if you would drop         06:10:01

 8   your comment cards in the box out there on the              06:10:01

 9   table.     And we have some free material out there         06:10:03

10   that may interest you to pick up and we encourage           06:10:05

11   you to do that as well.                                     06:10:08

12                     We also have some detailed plans over 06:10:10

13   here someone can go over with you if you have any           06:10:12

14   questions.     So, other than that, we're just going to 06:10:14

15   be here to answer your questions and just ask you to 06:10:18

16   look and share your comments with us.                       06:10:21

17                     Thank you again for coming out            06:10:22

18   tonight.                                                    06:10:27

19                     (WHEREUPON, the following comments        06:10:28

20   were dictated into the record individually:)                06:10:28

21                     DAN DOWNS:   All right.   My name is      06:14:54

22   Dan Downs and I'm the owner of the property located         06:14:54

23   at Nashville Pike and Cages Bend.      It's the subject     06:15:17

24   property where the road is going to be realigned and 06:15:17

25   there are four main concerns I have:                        06:15:30



              Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1                   The first is that the Cages Bend          06:15:33

 2   roadway and intersection is currently below the           06:15:35

 3   hundred year flood elevation.     This should be raised 06:15:35

 4   for safety sake because at the present the road           06:15:46

 5   floods and causes traffic to have to veer when they       06:15:46

 6   hit the high water.                                       06:15:55

 7                   And then the existing Big Station         06:15:56

 8   Camp Plan does not incorporate the approved access        06:16:00

 9   by the City and the Corps of Engineers for Savannah       06:16:10

10   Marketplace 300 feet from the intersection of Cages       06:16:10

11   Bend Road.   This needs to be reflected on the plans. 06:16:17

12                    Also, in this location there needs       06:16:21

13   to be an elimination of the Corps of Engineers'           06:16:31

14   property wetlands to box culvert to contain the           06:16:32

15   water currently running through the drainage in that 06:16:43

16   location at Cages Bend and Nashville Pike.                06:16:43

17                   And it's also important to keep Cages 06:16:43

18   Bend open to traffic throughout the construction          06:16:43

19   period.   The preliminary plan did not indicate           06:17:01

20   whether Cages Bend Road would be open at all times        06:17:03

21   during construction.   Thank you.                         06:17:09

22                   I would like to give you these notes      06:17:15

23   to be made a permanent part of the record in this         06:17:17

24   matter.                                                   06:17:20

25                   RON COLEMAN:    I've got a letter, it's



           Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1    addressed to Shane Hester from Ron Coleman on behalf


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   of Dan Downs with American Engineers' letterhead


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   basically outlining concerning that Mr. Downs has


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   concerning the project and we'd like to make that a


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   part of the permanent record.


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            Elite Reporting Services * (615) 595-0073
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 1
                  REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

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   STATE OF TENNESSEE


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   COUNTY OF SUMNER


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                         I, MISTY BRIGHAM, Court


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   Reporter, with offices in Nashville, Tennessee,


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   hereby certify that I reported the foregoing TDOT


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   HEARING by machine shorthand to the best of my


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   skills and abilities, and thereafter the same was


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   reduced to typewritten form by me.


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                         I further certify that I am not


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   related to any of the parties named herein, nor


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   their counsel, and have no interest, financial or


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   otherwise, in the outcome of the proceedings.


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                ________________________________

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                MISTY BRIGHAM

                   Notary at Large

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                State of Tennessee

          My Commission Expires: January 2, 2011

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