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					Susan



Why?

S: It’s our anniversary…

S: It’s history…



Part 2: Being aware of others and your feelings



S5: Susan’s interest Human nature

S: I think one of the things for me

that was really interesting to me about this,

is how he kept talking about human nature,



S6: Being aware

and also um

sort of…

and in a lot of ways

he was trying to you know teach us to be more aware…



S8: Sue reaction to the alcove

S: Oh! (Overwhelming sigh),

(agreeable) um



S10: Sue’s reaction

S: Yes…
walking in there was just…

that was frightening…



S14: Paying respect

S: I think its

For me it is also

it is interesting but its

kind of weird but

it is kind of paying tribute to those who died…


S15: Examples of previous visits

its like I’ve been to Dachau and Auschwitz and

and it’s like letting those people live,

you know its honouring them,

been to many of the military cemeteries around Europe



S16: Susan remembrance

and and it…

and that is like this

you know these people deserve (p)

to be remembered,

the people who were killed,



S16a: Not morbidity

so it’s

for me its not the sort of the the
bizarre whatever,

but its you know just think if it was one of your loved ones that was killed,

you want them remembered…



S20: The UN

S: Well it is like when we…

we went to the UN…

and there is a…



S: Well no it wasn’t a statue it was a wall…



S: And it was on…it’s no this…



S24: Maybe morbid fascination

S: I guess we are really,

I don’t know maybe we are really morbid or whatever

but we do,

I do, we…

It’s just fascinating



S28: Churchill and Bush

S: Churchill might have killed people…



S: Yeah
Part 4: What I have found so far



S: What are you finding from other people?
Part 6: Importance of Halloween

S38: Wouldn’t normal choose this tour

S: If we were going (coughs)

If we were going to choose a walking tour,

just a walking tour,

We would not

I do not think we would have chosen this one,

(P) except that it’s Halloween

and on Halloween…



S40: Importance of Halloween

S: No,

I think there are others I would have chosen

or at least I wouldn’t have chosen it…

because on Halloween we like to do something

connected with Halloween

whether its…



S41: Happy Halloween

now but I truly like Halloween,

like Happy Halloween,

more than you know morbid Halloween

but it was



S: Not so scary Halloween,
S43: Halloween is

S: It’s like when we decorated for,

Halloween is….



S: (trying to talk over Ed but failing)

There’s evil and

There is two sides



S: Exactly (laughs heartily)
Part 7: Little known things

S46: Jack the Ripper a British Icon

S: Well, I mean its interesting

I mean you know Jack the Ripper

Its sort of part of you know

coming from America,

its like you always…

everybody knows about him….

they don’t necessarily know about Jack the Ripper

but hear the name,

you know jack the ripper…

when you…
Part 8a: Ghoulish disagreement

S51: Not ghoulish

S: I don’t think of it as funny

but we don’t think of it as ghoulish,

I don’t think of this even as ghoulish…



S52: How you perceive it

S: It depends on

It’s like you are saying

it’s like what the perception of it,

or what the world is,

it’s like oh that’s supposed to be ghoulish…
Part 9: Fun, ghoulish for Halloween



S56: Anniversary and Halloween ghoulish

S: It’s our anniversary…



S: We always do something;

we try to do something…

special



S57: Dressing up for Halloween and wedding

S: Normally we dress up in costume,

ok our wedding was costumed

and all of our guest wore costumes,

it was optional…

most people wore costumes…
Part 10: Everyday interest



S: Do you, oh?

No I don’t know



S: You never really think about how morbid that would be actually…



S64: True morbidity

S: That truthfully that is really morbid

because these people

would be locked down there,

if in fact there was a nuclear war,

they’d be there

and their families would be on the surface,

vaporised…



S: Oh

Was it lately

because he would love to buy one (laughter).



S: To find something new
S: Well yeah like the ghost of Christmas past…
Part 14: Attitudes to death and the dead

S: Not only was he in the house, he was in her bedroom…



S: No not in her bed…



S86: Dad in mom’s bedroom

S: (laughter) no he was in his casket…

but I

its interesting

I was afraid she wasn’t going to let him go

because he was;

you know she wanted him there;

can’t remember where mom was

mom was in the house…



S87: Family tradition

S: So in our family we have open caskets…



S: Well, yes they do because…



S88: Difference in US/UK culture

S: Right dad was in the mortuary,

well that’s an interesting thing,

and I mean here I guess you are all in the mortuary?
S90: US culture (Susan’s family)

S: I think its what you grow up with,

for me,

my family we do it,

and it is its always,

it’s a way to



S91: A chance to say goodbye

I love it I really do love it,

Because its one more chance to say goodbye

and I never remember what they look like then

but it is

and even like when his dad died…



S93: Sue’s mum watching her (Christian belief)

S: Yeah (laughter) but its one more chance to say,

our belief they are gone,

there souls aren’t there,

but as far as I’m concerned,

my mom is dead but when I talk to her,

I don’t talk to her all the time,

but she’s watching me…



S95: The difference in different people

S: What’s the difference?
S: Yeah



S: Why would you not want to versus want to?
Part 15: Ed’s friend’s death



S97: Car accident, best friend’s death

S: His best friend was killed…
Part 16: Fascination with death

(this conversation is an emphasis of the deviance associated with fascination with

death)

S: Have you found anyone who is like fascinated with death?
Part 17: Weirdo’s on the internet



S100: Ed’s daughter story

S: Well Ed’s daughter,

who’s just about to turn 21,

has a three year old daughter,

she’s married and it’s wonderful

but she draws and she puts here drawings on a website.

And I was reading a magazine;

I can’t even remember which one it was…



S: I think he killed them…



S: Yeah exactly

and so it’s like I’ve sent it to her because it’s like…
Part 18: Changing World



S102: Granddaughters life

S: No but the world is so different

than what it was

and its only going to get faster,

we have a three year old granddaughter

and truthfully I don’t even think we can comprehend

what her life will be when she’s 60.



S: Yeah.
Part 19: Distinguishing between real and contrived on tour



S106: Need to be told about what’s fake and what’s real (seems an emerging

S: It’s like today here,                        theme)

I was sort of like ok,

Now what’s…

he needs signs saying:

‘ok this is real’,

‘I’m kidding’ and…



S: Yeah, no was this your first time?
Part 21: Why are they interested in this stuff?



S: Why do you?



S 114: Americans are lucky

S: For me it would definitely be,

because we are so spoilt

and especially in America,

we are so spoilt,



S115: Comprehending being killed

(p) that I think when you travel

and when you see things like Auschwitz and Dauchau

and cemeteries,

and this

it is like really

for me,

I can’t comprehend what it would like to be killed

and I pray that I am never murdered…



S117: Remembrance

S: Yeah or tortured,

but its like my nephew was just in the marine core,

we was in Iraq, twice

and its like I,
its sort of like…

I don’t want to say I owe them that,

that’s not right,

but its like I don’t want to forget,

I

my heart goes out to the families,

the families of these people

I don’t care if it was the 1700’s, the 1800’s

you know I mean…



S: But I haven’t been back to Ground Zero,

I haven’t…



S120: Terrorism affecting us all

S: But and along these lines,

I mean every time we ride the bus…

I mean we had friends

who were staying by the airport and they came in that day…

and they left the day the bombs went off

I mean its affecting all of us and there is no,

now there is no rhyme or reason…



S122: Thanks to people who die

S: I think that I feel,

I think that I personally am so lucky and so fortunate
that I really want,

its like (P)

I really do its like I honour…

well this is different…

but thank-you for the people in Iraq that died,

for my freedom



S123: It’s not morbid

and you know its isn’t morbid and I agree…

I think that…

and the scary part of it is I wouldn’t want to run into somebody like that,

who liked it for the morbicity

if that’s a word

its not

oh God…

that’s terrible (nervously laughs)
Part 22: Interest into the depth of depravity humans can withstand   (emerging

theme?)



S125: Human fortitude. Commitment

S: And the guy with this hands…

and I believe that…



E: …washing his hands in the flames…



you know when they were talking about the guy washing his hands…

And I believe that…(p)

you know I mean I believe somebody could do that…

that they would have that sort of commitment…



E: Fortitude, yeah…



S: And I think the same thing about brave heart

and I think that just like…
Part 23: Feelings
Part 24: Belief in ghosts



S133: Ghosts

S: We definitely believe in ghosts…



S: We do…



S134: Mother’s spirit

S: I believe in ghosts and spirits and

I mean there is no…

My mother is

my mother and my father are dead

and there is no question that my mother watches over me,

it’s better that my nephew is out of Iraq

so she can watch over the rest of us now,

she was concentrating on him,

oh absolutely, I believe…



Stanza 136: Mom watching over us

S: I mean it really is,

I guess its sort of your belief

its like my nephew was in Iraq

and this is my mothers grandson

and she knew he was going to Iraq before she died

and I knew the rest of us had to take care of ourselves
because mom was going to take care of Ben

and watch out for Ben the whole time he was in Iraq,

I mean Iraq is a very…

its hit or miss

but I knew we would probably be ok,

mom was watching,

now she’s watching over all of us,

coz he’s back…



S138: Ghost belief (Coda)

S: I do,

I believe in ghosts

I believe in…



S: I believe that even people are watching over us…
Part 26: Trapped spirits



S143: Return to mom and Dad             (is this a displaced feeling of grief,

S: Its interesting this is crazy but,   constant return to mom and dad)

had mom,

had pop not been dead,

mom would not have accepted she was dead…



S145: Negotiation with God

S: No…

you are right she would have

and that is interesting,

because my mother was,

I’ve always said my mom would have been in contact with God

and its like on moms’ terms when she died,

not on Gods terms;

they would have a negotiation…



S: And he did…



S146: Story of mom’s death              (is this a quest to understand what those close to

S: This was a long time                 them have been through?)

but the interesting thing was

and it was fascinating because I know,

we believe in this,
she was she’d sleep,

she was sick,

about 7 months

and then about a week before she died

she sat up for 48 hours straight

and she said I have to speak to Phillip,

I have to speak to Phillip,

and we are sitting there thinking,

god the only Phillip we know

we cant believe that she would want to speak to,

but we literally called the only Phillip we knew

and let her speak to him

and she wasn’t in that great shape

sort of mentally or whatever,

but we let her speak to Phillip

and I don’t even think we warned poor Phillip that he was going to talk to mom,

but she talked to Phillip

and she was up for 48 hours straight,

she got…

my mothers a big controller…

she got everybody straight

and it was like ok,

and about 2 days latter she died,

but she had to get everybody straight

and that’s kind of,
I believe in that…



S: We weren’t…



S: and he was so organised, he was so organised…



S: He was in Virginia and you were in North Carolina, where?



S: I mean you can understand that his family was….



S: wanted him to be moved….



S: Yeah and they wanted him there.



S: Yeah and the cool part is…

I’m a big believer in fate, luck,

I don’t care what you call it

but that day,

the office or whatever was open

and they happened to remember….



S: He moved,

where he moved

and not only that but he said that he was in pretty good shape when they moved him,

which was I don’t know kind of nice
and I still have their address…
Part 27: Morbid or non morbid?



S153: Not morbid

I mean but I don’t consider it morbid,

I consider it comforting…



S: Well that’s fine…



S: She’s too young for this.



S159: Friends survivors of the Holocaust

S: She is too young,

we’re I mean we have friends,

who I have a really good friend who was born in Shanghai,

her parents are German and Austrian

and they basically walked over the mountains to escape,

her parents escaped Dachau etc,

they escaped to live

and many many Germans went to China

and that’s why she was born in Shanghai,

as far as I’m concerned she is an American

but she was born in Shanghai

and we went to her bar mitzvah,

she’s Jewish,

as many of them most of them were
and we met so many people who had survived concentration camps,

it was un…

I mean it was…

I mean I am getting cold shivers now…



S: When you talk to somebody who was in either in Dachau or Auschwitz or…



S: and they survived…

I mean they survived (fascination with what people withstand)



S170: Pinning the feeling

S: It is

I mean it and the sad part is,

you are young

but you are studying this

is we are so lucky because we’re…

what is the feeling,

it’s certainly not awe

but its just like I mean its like…



S: And not only aware of it but its like,

you know its there,

I mean Evelyn’s father,

my friend who’s,

I mean I’m 55, she’s probably 57 this is her father,
he took his mother

across mountains in the snow,

and his mother

to escape

so that they were not in Dachau or in the other concentration camps

but others of their friends were

and it just, there first language is German

nd they live in Arizona,

which is the South West of the US

and she was born in Shanghai…

it’s just um



S: Yes, don’t forget….



S177: Declan’s desire to teach us

S: And that’s what I think…

as silly as it is…

in a lot of ways

I think this was why he was doing this tour,

to teach us,

because he kept saying…



S: Yeah…



S: Wow wow,
it’s um Churchill’s oh it’s gone…



S181: Patriotism

S: And there’s a thing at that point,

it doesn’t matter whether you are Welsh

or whatever you are, you’re Great Britain,

you know its like I don’t care if we’re from Virginia or if we’re from wherever,

this is my country and this is my…

				
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