Dyfed-Powys Police Authority
Minutes of a Meeting of the Community Engagement & External Relations
Held at the Police Authority Offices, Police Headquarters, Carmarthen
On Tuesday 28th July 2009 at 2pm
Present: Mrs A Williams (Chair)
Mr J K Howell JP
Mrs D Evans
Cllr J T Davies
Cllr D Davies
Cllr K Curry
Cllr D O Evans
Cllr A Lloyd Jones
Cllr T H Lewis
In attendance: Mr K B Reeves (Chief Executive)
Ms A Maskell (Assistant Chief Executive)
Mr M Maynard (Community and Partnership Officer PA)
Mr G Lemon (Policy Officer Police Authority)
Mr B John (Communities & Partnerships)
Ms R Davies–Moore (Public Relations and Marketing Manager)
Observers Mrs D Humfryes
Cllr W G Hopkins
Cllr D Neale
Prof I Roffe
CE01 Appointment of Chair
That Mrs Ann Williams be appointed as Chair.
As outgoing Chair, Mr Ken Howell thanked all Police Authority Members, Secretariat
officers and the force for their support and the work that had been undertaken during his
tenure as Chair of the Committee. Mr Howell then invited Mrs Ann Williams to take over
the chair. Mrs Williams took over as the presiding chair, thanked Mr Howells and the
members for the work that had been undertaken during the previous two years.
CE02 Apologies for Absence
Apologies for absence were received from Mr Ian Arundale, the Chief Constable, and Mr
Paul Morris, Head of Corporate Services.
CE03 Declarations of Interest
There were no declarations of interest. Mr Reeves reminded members that they should
declare any gifts and hospitality received over £25.
CE04 Appointment of Vice Chair
That Mr Kelvyn Curry be appointed as Vice Chair.
CE05 Confirmation of Minutes 29th May 2009
That the Minutes of the meeting held on 29th May 2009 be confirmed and
signed by the Chair as an accurate record.
CE06 Matters Arising
There were no matters arising from the previous minutes.
Matters for Decision:
CE07 To receive and consider the Terms of Reference
Mr Reeves reminded the meeting that following the decision at the AGM, the agendas
for Committee meetings would now be split into “Matters for Decision” and “Matters for
Information”. This change would help make meetings as productive as possible and
would hopefully assist in reducing the length of meetings. The number of presentations
would also be limited and where possible attendees would be expected to present a
Revised Terms of Reference had been agreed at the AGM. However, Members were
invited to consider the Terms of Reference and make any recommendations for change
to the next full Police Authority Meeting in September.
Mr Reeves suggested that it was an opportune moment to consider the Terms of
Reference due to the likelihood that the forthcoming Police and Justice Bill 2008 would
become law in the near future. The Bill would alter the position of Police Authorities in
respect of the importance of the views of the public. There is a currently a duty for Police
Authorities to consult with the public, but not necessarily take action on the issues raised
by the public. Whereas, implementation of the Bill would lead to an obligation to take the
views of the public on board in discharging the Authority‟s functions with a need to
One typographical error was also noticed under Item 10.b. and this needed to be
In light of the above, it was
That the following recommendations are made to the next full Police
Authority Meeting to amend the Terms of Reference:
1. Item 1 should be amended to 1.a.
2. The following additional Item 1.b. should be added, “To ensure the
discharge of the Authority‟s duties, under section 6 of the Police Act
1996 in so far as it relates to having regards to the views of the public in
Dyfed–Powys, concerning policing in our area”.
3. The word „clean‟ under Item 10.b. should be amended to read „clear‟.
The above amendments would ensure that the public views were taken into account in
the context of decision making. Mr Reeves went on to clarify that should the proposed
Bill not become law then the above amendments would not become effective.
Cllr Haydn Lewis sought clarification around the wording of the second bullet point under
Item 15 of the Terms of Reference. Mr Reeves confirmed that this was a standing item
on all Terms of Reference. There were two risk registers; one for the Force and one for
the Authority and this item ensured that any risks relevant to the respective committee
were regularly monitored. Copies of the risk registers were available on the internet.
CE08 To discuss a forward work programme for the following year
The Chair invited comments from the Committee. Mr Reeves stressed the importance of
a forward work programme to ensure that the Committee covered all of its
responsibilities within its Terms of Reference. A forward work programme would also
provide valid evidence for the forthcoming Police Authority inspection.
It was agreed that one of the principle roles of the Committee was community
consultation and engagement in order to make the public aware of the role of the Police
Authority and identification of policing priorities. This role included receiving feedback in
consultation events such as the Royal Welsh Show and the recent supermarket
consultations. By extension, it involved receiving feedback from Members on attendance
at Community Safety Partnerships. It was also pointed out that Members had a vital role
to play in PACT meetings by providing a visible Police Authority presence in their
This engagement also extended to making Officers within the Force aware of the role. It
was acknowledged that some work was already being done in this respect through Mr
Mike Maynard‟s role and Mr Maynard was currently giving regular inputs to all Custody
Sergeants, Acting Sergeants and new Student Officers. There was also a Police
Authority link on all BCU websites.
It was also acknowledged that the recent attendance at the Royal Welsh Show had
highlighted the need to establish an identity separate to the Force and this should be a
principal role of the Committee. It was felt that the public probably did not realise the
difference between the Police Authority and the Force. There was definitely a need to
raise the profile of the Police Authority and some form of „soundbite‟ or branding should
be considered as part of its identity. Raising the profile of the Police Authority and
effective community engagement and consultation would help to demonstrate the
„added value‟ of Police Authorities. Mr Reeves stressed to Members that this was
particularly important as there was currently a perception that central and regional
government were looking critically at the future role of Police Authorities.
Demonstrating effective community consultation and engagement would also form a
vital part of the HMIC Inspection. It was acknowledged that were limited resources to
spend on engagement activity, but it would be helpful for an action plan of realistic
potential communication and engagement activities should be put forward for
consideration at a future Committee meeting. Mr Reeves confirmed that this action
already formed part of the Strategic Plan.
The above discussion proved very helpful in clarifying the role of the Police Authority in
terms of community engagement and consultation. A discussion consequently ensured
regarding items for consideration under the forward work programme to ensure that the
above was achieved. It was therefore
That the following items be considered as part of the forward work
programme for the Committee:
1. Ongoing monitoring of Police Authority engagement with Community
2. Updates on collaboration activities.
3. Demonstrating value for money of the Police Authority.
4. Ongoing monitoring of Stop and Search/Stop and Account.
5. The Police Authority Inspection.
6. Raising the profile of the Police Authority with the public, partners and
7. Developing an action plan to achieve Number 6.
8. Ongoing monitoring of Police Authority engagement with children and
9. Ongoing monitoring of the Independent Custody and Animal Welfare
CE09 To consider the item in relation to the application of performance indicators
for the Independent Custody Visiting Scheme
Mr Reeves highlighted the following issues raised in Mrs Claire Godden‟s report:
That PACE Codes of Practice are going to be reissued;
The issues raised within “The Bradley Review”, a recently published report that
raised concerns about members of the public who are detained in Police Custody
under the provisions of the Mental Health Act and how this relates to Independent
That Members should consider whether Performance Indicators should be applied to
monitor the effectiveness and efficiency of Dyfed-Powys Police Authority‟s
Independent Custody Visitor scheme.
Some discussion ensued surrounding the joint inspections by HMIC and the HM
Inspectorate of Prisons of Police Custody Suites. 14 inspections, 5 of which would be
unannounced are due to take place during 2009/10 in a mix of high/medium and low risk
areas. Concern was raised as to how Independent Custody Visitors could be involved in
the process if Dyfed-Powys was subjected to an unannounced inspection. Mr Reeves
confirmed that this issue had been raised with the Deputy Inspector of Prisons.
The Committee agreed that the implementation of Performance Indicators for the Police
Authority Independent Custody Scheme was a good idea and it was therefore
That the Secretariat draft some Performance Indicators for the scheme for
consideration at the next Committee meeting.
Matters for information
CE10 To receive a report on the Force PR, Media and Marketing Strategy
Ms Rhian Davies-Moore, the Dyfed-Powys Police Force PR Media and Marketing
Manager, gave a presentation on the PR, Media and Marketing developments and work
that had been undertaken within the Force and BCUs during the previous 12 months.
Following the presentation, Cllr Kelvin Curry commented on the good work that Ms
Davies-Moore had undertaken. Cllr Curry asked how the return on investment for the
cost of the recent stand at the Royal Welsh Show would be evaluated. He also asked
whether the Police Authority had contributed to the cost of the stand.
Ms Davies-Moore commented that this was the first occasion on which the Force had
put on a stand of this nature at the Show. The return on investment had not been
formally evaluated as such, but it was estimated that in the region of 10,000 individuals
had visited the stand over the course of the 4 days and the general consensus was that
it had been a very positive experience. Questionnaires would be sent to members,
officers and staff that attended the stand seeking formal feedback. Ms Davies-Moore
confirmed that the Police Authority had not financially contributed to the cost of the
Cllr John Davies commented that it was important that tangible evidence was gathered
to demonstrate the return on investment of attendance at the show. However, it must be
stressed that the stand had appeared to be very successful and a good vehicle to
promote the Police Authority and it was a very good starting point from which to move
Cllr Curry also asked what the Force policy was in respect of BCUs producing
information leaflets for distribution locally. Ms Davies-Moore confirmed that the Force
had put in place a standardised, computerised template database that officers should
follow when producing leaflets. As the Force only had one Graphic Designer, it was not
practical for all leaflets to be produced in HQ, but the template should provide for a
Cllr John Davies asked whether there was a strategy in place to address the
development and use of social networking sites, such as Facebook and Twitter as this
was an important tool to communicate with young people. Ms Davies-Moore confirmed
that she was meeting with an external consultant to look at the possibility of using social
networking sites as a communications tool
Cllr John Davies asked whether Members could be included on the mailing list for the
Force newsletter, The Informer. This might be a useful tool to develop the profile of the
Police Authority. Ms Davies-Moore confirmed that The Informer was no longer produced
in hardcopy due to cost and only published on the Force Intranet. However, it could be
printed off and distributed in hard copy to Members.
The Chairman thanked Ms Davies–Moore for the presentation.
CE11 To receive an update on the draft Dyfed-Powys Police Authority Children
and Young People Participation Strategy
Mr Reeves gave an overview of the report contents. The closing date for the
consultation had been 30th June 2009. The Authority had received six responses, which
had been considered to which responses had been made. Work was now progressing
on the development of the action plan and Mr Reeves proposed a more detailed report
be presented to the meeting in October.
The Chairman stated, whilst the responses were very positive and the work that had
been done was useful it would be the action plan that would be the critical part in the
process of engaging and consulting with Children and Young People. It was proposed
that the report be noted.
That the committee note the report and that a further update be presented
to the next Committee meeting in October.
CE12 To receive an update on attendance at Children and Young People‟s
Mr Mike Maynard gave an update of the Police Authority‟s involvement at the four Local
Authority Children and Young People‟s Partnerships within the Force area. He told the
committee that he had attended meetings at three of the four C&YPPs;
Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire.
He reported that, from the meetings he had attended, the outlook was positive with the
Police Authority involvement being productive. C&YPP‟s were keen to have the Police
Authority involved; this was particularly evident in Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire
and with regards to Ceredigion the development was in it‟s early stages, but again
positive. To date, he had not been able to attend a meeting of the Powys C&YPP as it
appeared the set up was in the process of being restructured.
The areas of concern were that there was a lack of Police Force presence at some of
the meetings he had attended. There was also a delay in receipt of the minutes in order
to brief members with regards to matters that are discussed within the meeting, such as
the Authority‟s need to be aware of the Welsh Accord for Information Sharing, which
Mr Reeves was currently looking at and the WAG “Rights to Action - Poverty Pledge”.
Cllr. Kelvin Curry commented that he had attended all of the C&YPP meetings within
Powys and that Police attendance had been positive.
That the Committee note the update on the Police Authority‟s attendance at
Children and Young Peoples Partnership Meetings.
CE13 To receive an update on Community Safety Issues
Mr Bob John appraised the committee on the following community safety issues:
There were no matters to report with regards to public protection.
The Force is currently going through a review with regards to Communities and
Partnerships with a particular focus on BCUs, as BCUs now have full responsibility
for Neighbourhood Policing Teams. The draft final report is currently with ACPO and
once finalised a decision will be made as to how Communities and Partnerships will
A further report currently with ACPO, considers the prospect of the establishment of
a “Force Corporate Youth Board” to look at aspects relative to Children, Young
People and Young Adults; such a board would have representation from all Force
Departments, BCUs and the Police Authority in order to progress the considerable
amount of work that is ahead of the Force in respect of Children and Young People.
The Force is currently in the process of reviewing the two year update on tackling
crime, which came into being last year.
The Force has recently received guidelines on Advocacy Guidance in relation to
Children and Young People which could well influence matters previously discussed
particularly in the areas of Custody.
“Integrated Family Support Teams” were also being piloted; the teams necessitate a
Police presence where there are concerns about children and young people who are
part of a family with a history of domestic violence or substance misuse.
Cllr Haydn Lewis enquired as to how many School Liaison Officers the Force had as he
considered them to be a worthwhile investment. Mr John Informed the Committee that
the Force currently had 13 officers at the present time. The chair endorsed the
comments made by Cllr Haydn Lewis in relation to the good work School Liaison
Officers were undertaking across the Force area. Mr John informed the committee that
this had been fed back to the Welsh Assembly Government.
That the Committee note the update on Community Safety Issues
CE14 To receive an update on Community Safety Partnerships and the role of the
Police Authority in these Partnerships
Mr Reeves provided an overview of the comprehensive report that had been prepared
and submitted by Secretariat Officers, Mr Mike Maynard and Mr Gavin Lemon. The
report outlined the progression that had been made and the mechanisms that were now
in place to register the interests of the Authority within the Community Safety
Partnerships and demonstrate that the Police Authority adds value to Community Safety
Partnerships (CSPs) as a Responsible Authority. Part of the process that was now
established was to receive agendas from CSPs, brief Police Authority representatives
prior to attending CSP meetings and receive documented feedback that could be used
as evidence for the future inspection.
The Chairman queried whether or not the Police Authority should be mapping what
members were in fact proactive within. Professor Ian Roffe expanded on the aspect of
mapping and how it was important for the Police Authority to evidence the overall holistic
picture and consequently documentary evidence of attendance at all meetings outside o
the Committee structure was essential.
Mr Reeves went on to summarise the key issues raised within the report:
The introduction of Crime and Disorder Overview and Scrutiny Committees, under
Sections 19 and 20 of the Police and Justice Act 2006, which been discussed at the
recent AGM. Mr Reeves informed the committee that the PA Chair and he had
attended a meeting recently representing the Police Authority and PAW and at this
meeting they had made strong representations to Local Authority representatives
that Police Authorities very much wish to be an active part of LA Overview and
Scrutiny Committees across Wales. Mr Reeves also stated that he had started a
dialogue with the four Local Authorities regarding this.
The issue relating to Local Service Boards (LSBs); the position of the Police
Authorities of Wales both individually and collectively is that Authorities would very
much wish to be represented on LSBs. Mr Reeves requested guidance as to whether
or not the committee would wish him to formally write to the four Chief Executives of
the four Authorities within Dyfed-Powys, asking them to consider inviting the Police
Authority to sit as a member upon the respective LSBs.
The development of a Partnership Strategy by the Secretariat, which included
looking at the role within CSPs and LSBs. Mr Maynard and Mr Lemon would be
meeting with the four CSP Managers to look at the Police Authority role.
At this point Cllr John Davies declared an interest in the item being discussed as he
was the Chair of the Pembrokeshire LSB. Cllr Davies went on to explain the structure
and working practice of Pembrokeshire LSB.
Cllr Alun Lloyd Jones stated that he was aware that Ceredigion LA was shortly to make
a decision on the implementation of the Crime and Disorder Overview and Scrutiny
Committee. With respect to LSBs, he reiterated Mr Reeves‟s concerns over the lack of
representation of Police Authorities. Professor Ian Roffe stated that he represented
Lampeter University on the Ceredigion LSB and he did raise Police Authority matters
when appropriate. However, he agreed that formally he was not there to represent the
1. That the Committee note the update report.
2. That the Chief Executive writes to the four LA Chief Executives
regarding Police Authority involvement in
Crime and Disorder Overview and Scrutiny Committees
Local Service Boards
CE15 To receive an update on the recent round of Independent Custody Visitors
Mr Reeves requested that members note the contents of the report and the positive
work that was being undertaken by Police Authority Independent Custody Visitors
throughout the Force Area.
That the Committee note the update report on the recent round of
Independent Custody Visitor Panel Meetings.
CE16 Animal Welfare Open Day
Ms Alex Maskell informed the Committee that the Police Authority Animal Welfare Open
Day had been arranged for 29th September 2009 and that Members were encouraged to
attend in support of the event.
That the Committee note the date of the forthcoming Animal Welfare Open
Day on 29th September 2009.
CE17 To consider the report of the Chief Executive on the Authority‟s response to
the Criminal Justice Service consultation on “Engaging Communities in
Mr Reeves informed the committee that the comprehensive report had been prepared
by Mr Maynard and thanked Mr Maynard for the report. He added that the report had
been adopted as a Police Authorities of Wales response. He recommended that
members read the report as it raised and highlighted certain issues.
Many Police Authorities are not currently represented on Local Criminal Justice Boards
(LCJBs) and the Police Authority may wish to consider making representations to have a
place on the LCJB. Professor Ian Roffe was of the opinion that the Police Authority
should be represented on the LCJB as the LCJB of Dyfed-Powys and had a direct effect
on outcomes relating to Dyfed-Powys Police; Mrs Daphne Evans was supportive of this
view. The Committee was supportive of the Chief Executive writing to the Chair of the
Dyfed-Powys LCJB to address the situation of Police Authority representation.
1. That the Committee note the report.
2. That the Chief Executive writes to the Chief Executive of the Dyfed-
Powys LCJB concerning Police Authority representation.
CE18 To receive the report entitled “Police Authority Inspection: Joint Audit
Commission and Her Majesty‟s Inspectorate of Constabulary Police
Authority Inspection Framework”
Mr Reeves reminded Members that the Inspection Framework had been circulated. It
was important that Members became familiar with the framework and understood what
was expected. Dyfed-Powys Police Authority would not be in the first tranche of
inspections, but were waiting for confirmation as to when it would be inspected. It was
likely to take place in Autumn 2010.
Mrs Delyth Humfryes referred to the structure of the assessment themes and
information provided by the APA and stressed the importance of the Police Authority
being able to demonstrate evidence and be in a position to prove to the HMIC that the
required criteria had been met. Mrs Humfryes informed the Committee that she had
arranged a training / information day on the Inspection for Authority members to take
place on the 11th November 2009.
Mr Reeves stressed the importance of having an audit trail that recorded detail of
meetings that members attended, as part of preparation for the inspection.
That the committee note the report and familiarise themselves with the
CE19 To receive minutes of the following Community Safety Partnership
a) Carmarthenshire – held on 21st May 2009
b) Pembrokeshire – held on 15th May 2009
That the Committee note the minutes.
CE20 Consultation results; feedback from the Royal Welsh Show
PAPERS FOR MEETINGS\Comm Engagement\Community Eng 28-07-09\Item 20 - Royal Welsh 09.doc
Mr Reeves summarised the key issues emerging from the feedback received at the
Royal Welsh Show. It was felt that the results were encouraging as participants
appeared to know of the Police Authority and participants had been representative of the
community as a whole. However, only a small proportion of participants appeared to
definitely understand the role of the Police Authority. The report highlighted that there
was a requirement for the Authority to undertake work in raising its profile.
Consultation had also been undertaken in respect of identifying Policing Priorities for the
forthcoming year. The report showed that the results were reflective of the Policing
Priorities of previous years with Visibility of Police, Anti Social Behaviour and Drug
Related Crime being the strongest responses. It was encouraging to note that some
respondents had an awareness that terrorism was an issue that affected all.
Mr Maynard informed the committee that Dr B. Gibbons A.M. had visited our stand and
had expressed an interest in the survey and wished to be notified of the findings of the
Cllr Kelvyn Curry expressed his appreciation to the Secretariat for the work that had
gone into preparing the report so promptly after the event. However, he did express
concern that participants may not have been representative as they would have been
encouraged to visit the tent by the presence of the Force. Had the weather permitted, it
may have been more representative for members and officers to approach participants
away from the tent.
That the report be noted.
CE21 Members‟ reports
There were no Members‟ reports.
CE22 Any other business which the Chair decides is urgent
There was no any other business.
The meeting closed at 4.45pm.