Cloverdale Dog Off Leash Park

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					                              Cloverdale Dog Off Leash Park
                                         Open House #1

Tuesday, November 28, 2006
Don Christian Elementary School Multipurpose Room, 6256-184 Street, Surrey BC
6:00 to 8:00 p.m.

Open House Attendance and Findings

75 residents signed in at the Open House. 104 comment sheets, 1 letter, 1 email and 1 petition
were returned by December 31, 2006. The percentages below are based on the comment sheets,
email and letter received at and following the Open House:

       20      Strongly supported the concept plan as presented
       5       Supported the concept plan as presented
       7       Were neutral to the concept plan as presented
       7       Opposed the concept plan as presented
       64      Strongly opposed the concept plan as presented

       1       Were neutral and opposed to the concept plan
       1       Supported the Dog Off Leash but strongly opposed the location
       1       Unspecified

Overall, 71 (0%) residents were opposed of strongly opposed towards the concept plan as
presented.

Of the 71 respondents that were opposed or strongly opposed to the plan, 33 (0%) commented that
the relocation of the horses was one, if not the only reason, that they disagreed with the park as
presented. The percentages below are based on the issues and concerns that the 106
respondents raised in their written comments:

Concern                                                 # of Respondents
Location                                                           3
Relocation of horses                                              45
Proximity to elementary schools, daycare, & senior’s               7
residence
Poor site: Lack of trails, trees, and/or water                    6
Safety
Traffic congestion / increase / safety                            18
Pedestrian safety                                                  4
Dog & user safety                                                  3
User Responsibility                                               1
Waste disposal & management                                       6
Owner control over dogs / dog temperament                         4
Dogs escaping                                                     1
Other
Vandalism & partying                                               9
Park size (too small)                                             10
Impact on local wild life                                          2
Aesthetics                                                         1
Noise                                                             8
Increase in activity                                              2
City maintenance after completion                                 2



Responses to the questions on the Comment Form:


Dog apparatus, obstacles, and/or extras preference:

       10     Fire Hydrant
       16     Boulders
       25     Tree Stumps/Logs
       20     Contouring
       54     None

       18     Unanswered
       1      Would like to see in all parks

   Bulletin board (covered). Dog parks are small communities. Bulletin boards help us help each
   other. Small biz advertise dog services, lost/found notices, dog tips, etc. I don’t think people
   want or care for ‘obstacles’. People want a clean, safe, large place preferable at water, to walk
   their dogs. Trees for shading. Don’t waste my money on boulders, fire hydrants, etc.
   After it is moved to another location!


Preference for a separate enclosed area designated for smaller dogs:

       18     Yes
       63     No

       20     Unanswered
       1      None
       1      Zip
       2      N/A

   All parks should have this.
   After it is moved to another location.
   Some dogs like to be with little dogs.


Interest in signing up for a community dog owners group to help manage the Cloverdale Dog
Off Leash Park:

       9      Yes
       76     No

       16     Unanswered
       2      Not at this time
       1      No but would help if required
   Need more detail of what is expected of volunteer.
   I guess not.


Interest in participating in a focus group about Dog Off Leash Areas for the Parks,
Recreation and Culture Strategic Plan in 2007:

       15     Yes
       69     No

       17     Unanswered
       1      You’re planning more? Possible.
       1      Possibly
       1      Unavailable at this time.


Comments and/or suggestions for the Cloverdale Dog Off Leash Park:

Strongly support and support the concept plan as presented:
   I would like to see the area be bigger than a soccer field. With the amount of dogs in the area,
   this proposed are will be to overcrowded!
   So far, I support this proposal for this dog park. I should show more support if this area were to
   be made bigger.
   **Water fountain. Poop bags. Bulletin board.
   Should go with the additional 6,000+ area right at the start (Phase II). Our experience with this
   site is it is a tad small (e.g. Blackie Spit Park).
   I strongly support a dog park – but this current location should not be displacing the horses that
   are in area, and location as displayed is too small.
   I really like Langley’s dog park – good size, water fountain, parking area, gravel path around
   perimeter. I would like to see the existing plan expanded.
   Water fountain. Bags for poop.
   Good idea.
   I think it is a great idea. What else can you use the land for.
   Hear of issue with existing lease for horses that be withdrawn. It seems unreasonable that
   there is not enough flexibility in dog park dimension/location to accommodate the horses and
   dogs. This “appears” like authority (City) rolling over common sense.
   What about the horses?
   Good use of this area!
   We would like to have further discussion on location ideas, particularly 58th and 188th area as an
   alternative (behind Sunrise School).
   I would like to see the park at least 5 acres. I believe that the area should be used to benefit the
   whole community not just a few. The park is for day use only so it should not bother anyone.
   The area is not being used now. It is a swamp for a good part of the year and people dump
   garbage and yard waste that just attracts vermin to the area.
   Maybe make it a bit bigger. It would be a better use of the land. Now it’s unusable or used by
   people who have no right to it. As a tax payer I feel I should not have to take my dog to a
   Langley Dog Park because it’s the closest to my home. Yes dogs bark but the park is a day use
   area. Who is it bothering. Dogs should have their own space away from children’s parks and
   sports fields.
   Please all the family next door to keep their horses. Situate the parking lot lower down. I like the
   use of 5 ft high page wire fencing. Another neighbour was suggesting 188th area at Sunrise
   Ridge. This is also good because its not as busy for traffic etc and there are no hydro lines. I
   also support the drinking fountain idea.
   I would strongly suggest that if there is to be a dog park in this area they should look at the north
   east corner of 184th and 60th Avenue which has no other apparent use or value.
   Going by the noticeable results which I have noticed from other parks, it is nothing but a positive
   thing to have a local dog park.
   184 Street is a very high pedestrian road. The only sidewalk is on the west side of 184 Street.
   There are people walking along 184 Street from early morning till late at night. The planning
   dept. at Surrey City Hall has stated that houses along 184 Street are not allowed to have
   driveways off 184 if there is alley access. I find it strange that the City would okay a “parking lot”
   on 184 Street. I also feel it is dangerous to have the parking lot entrance so close to a busy
   intersection. I strongly advise that someone from the Parks and Recreation Department spend
   some time at all hours of the day to see just how busy this sidewalk is with pedestrian traffic,
   most of which are children. The family that has the horses have been contributing members of
   the Cloverdale community for over 15 years. They give countless children unlimited joy by
   allowing them to pet the horses and feed them carrots. The horses are considered a landmark
   to many of us who live here. The family also looks after the Clayton Community Hall. To the
   point where when the hall was vandalized they rolled up their shirt sleeves, cleaned up and
   fixed the damage caused by vandals. The family has spend considerable time and money fixing
   the piece of property they lease from the Parks department to keep it clean, friendly looking and
   an important part of this part of Cloverdale. If the Park dept. insists on keeping this location, is it
   at all possible to adjust the plan so the part with the horses can stay as it is. Another concern I
   have would be the lack of neighbourhood supervision on the parking lot. We already have
   problems in the parking lot for the Cloverdale Recreation Centre. If there are any cars in the lot
   when the staff leaves at the end of the day the gates are left open. This allows young (and
   possible older) people with cars to party in the parking lot. I feel this is only giving those
   unresponsible partyers another place to hang out. I have a large dog and know that if I fall
   behind by a day or so the smell becomes quite offensive. I feel it would only be reasonable to
   put a dog off leash park someplace where families don’t live, possible closer to the industrial
   areas. I am also very concerned about the noise from barking dogs. Although I think it is unfair
   to the neighbours I think the easement on the south of 58 Avenue near 186/188 Street would be
   a safer spot for both vehicle and pedestrian traffic.
   Low impact use for neighbours, not many neighbours impacted. Contouring and appropriate
   vegetation allows for visual interest. Dogs will love to run in open area. Area already used
   informally as an off leash park. Allows for future expansion.
   Try to leave the horses where they are and build around them. Make the park a bit longer and
   put the parking beside the horses instead of where the horses are.

Neutral to the concept plan as presented:
   Agree with only if the horses stay. I don’t believe the tenants with the horses should be
   displaced. Alternatives should be looked at that incorporates them into the plans. The area is
   more than large enough with the proposed expansion to support everyone. Our community
   should include everyone and this plan does not do hat. I believe the dog park is a good idea for
   this area but I have some concerns with parking and traffic congestion. There are other more
   suitable areas that are less busy corridors. You state that 89% of the respondents were in
   favour of this area in 2001. Didi those people know that it included taking away that land from
   the horses? I think not as your response would most likely not have been so positive given that
   information.
   I am concerned #1 about the people on 184th having to move their horses. #2 is it going to be
   looked after by the city after it is complete?
   I would like to have the whole Hydro line area cut twice a year between 60th and 64th. Leave the
   horses where they are.
   Neutral because of the removal of the horses. These animals are enjoyed by many young and
   old alike. While I’d love to see that mess of brambles cleaned away I would think something
   could be done without disrupting the status quo.
   Much as I welcome the close proximity, I’m concerned about having to use THIS particular
   section of the right of way which is currently being used as a horse corral. This pastoral view is
   what makes Cloverdale a country community. What about suing the section of right of way on
   the north side of 64th and east of 176th?

Opposed and strongly opposed to the concept plan as presented:
   Too close to senior citizens home on 184th. Too close to pedestrian walk on 184th St. I find most
   people taking dogs to off leash parks users are not courteous and do not control their dogs.
   I and my husband are strongly opposed to the location – 184th is very busy – fire engines/school
   traffic etc. May I suggest 58th Avenue Hydro lands behind Sunrise School. Quiet street. Also
   as we are having vandalism from the youth – here is another place for them to trash!
   Move it elsewhere to better land with trails, trees and less vehicle/children activity.
   I prefer to walk when I take my dog out. The park isn’t large enough. Show and tell should give
   way to discussion. If this is it I’d probably continue to use Brookswood when I needed a d.p.
   Very sad that City would evict long time tenants for a dog park! You should also speak to dog
   owners i.e.: safety issues. Minimum 2 gates into/out of the parking lot apart from each other.
   Dogs and fences and gates can be problematic!
   I am in favour of off leash parks and attend them once every week or two. I don’t agree with the
   location. Off leash parks are not attractive visually. We have enjoyed the horses on 184 Street
   for more than 5 years. This has an appeal and park like setting. A much better location as a
   dog owner is the section of power line north of 64 Avenue. There is already a nice gravel trail
   system developed there and the grass bowl at the bottom is great for dogs. This location would
   provide a varied topography and much more interesting to walk than a level area. Parking from
   180 Street would allow a level area for people with handicaps. I agree with the concept but at
   another location. I would rather walk by the horses on a regular basis.
   I do not want this in my area. I believe we will have more youth vandalism problems. I have
   been to other dog parks and I have seen numbers of people proposed not picking up their dog’s
   poo.
   How about developing the land behind Sunrise Ridge Elementary School?
   Regarding Selection Criteria:
   (1.) Proximity constraint suggests avoiding “places where children congregate”. This should
   read “where children are present”. The number of children walking along the 184 Street
   sidewalk (on the west side) likely numbers way ore than pools etc. Also most of the children
   walking to both, Martha Currie and Don Christian use that sidewalk. The sidewalk is a
   pedestrian highway. Have a look anytime during the day.
   (2.) I see a requirement for vehicular accessibility and pedestrian accessibility but nothing
   regarding PEDESTRIAN SAFETY. This proposal is adding a driveway off 184 (which is
   frowned on for residents) that crosses probably the busiest sidewalk in the area. I was very
   disappointed that the reasons for decisions that were made were not available at this meeting.
   The time was spent making pretty pictures but the real information was lacking. Also I felt
   deceived when numbers like “89% approved” are quoted without indication that it was 89% of
   12 people. Not a lie but very close!
   I do not think it is necessary to put the park where horses area already situated and enjoyed by
   all.
   (1.) You are impeding on a great family (the Zeacots) with horses, they are the essence of
   Cloverdale! They have great kids.
   (2.) There are a dozen other sites for an off leash dog park in Cloverdale.
   (3.) This is why 4 out of 5 Canadians do not trust the political unbureacratic rules.
   Why are you doing this to the Zeacots? A great family with great kids and wonderful horses.
   Give your heads a shake!
   Our friends have horses on proposed park area. Could site behind them be used?
   I’m strongly opposed to a dog off leash park in this place.
I believe there is enough green space to keep the rented tenants and make an expansive dog
park as well. Unfortunately I am forced to vote NO! Would love to see a dog park as well.
I live across the street and I think the family living there with horses is much more peaceful. The
area doesn’t need to become any more busier (there’s open land on the corner of 60th not being
used). Do both.
Higher traffic area/more people driving through.
I believe it could be made somewhere else. Do not displace horses. Either improvise and
make it narrower. Do not take away the horse pasture.
The proposal takes the land away fro the people who have the horses there. I like the horses. I
love dogs, but not dogs in the city. Dogs belong in the country (especially big dogs). Small
dogs can go in their own yard. The park will increase traffic to some degree and will be a future
loitering locale for local young people. The area is already being used for dogs now and does
not need to be developed. Put the money to some other better cause, ex: food bank, lower
income families, lunches for children at school. Dog owners will still be able to take care of their
dogs without this park. The horses add to the charm of Cloverdale. The people have been
leasing the land for a long time now and they deserve respect and more dialogue in this issue.
I really strongly prefer horses then dogs because I known these horses since I’ve been a baby
and it takes up lots of space.
The horse would have to leave. It would draw more people to the area. I don’t like dogs so I
can’t understand why people need somewhere to walk their dogs. It’s a waste of money to
make a park dedicated to dogs only. I enjoy biking under the power lines on the trail.
The horses have been there for a while and I love the horses. That’s the best park for going on
a walk!
Horses have been part of Cloverdale. My children have fed them apples, carrots since early
childhood. Keep the charm. There are 2 schools nearby the park would attract more
cars/trucks. What is more important dogs or children? My children ride bikes a lot and I’m not
fond of extra dogs running and barking the area. Lets be more conscious of all the neighbours
that will have to put up with the dogs. There are already dog leash areas. How about using the
park land behind the skateboard park. Put money towards helping people instead of dogs! Use
under the power lines.
I am not against a Cloverdale off leash park but leave the horses where they area. We’ve lived
at this address for almost 30 years. Our kids loved the horses and now grandkids love the
horses. They’re a special part of our neighbourhood. How about the area behind Sunrise
(Ridge) School or further down the Hydro right of way or the other side (north) of 64th. Please!
The City should accommodate the current lease. Wait till the current tenants sell or voluntarily
terminate the lease or reformulate the layout to allow access from 60th not 184th. Find another
location all together. Further south along the power lines.
Strongly opposed if as planned. I am opposed to this plan if it means the horses have to leave.
We love them and so do our kids and grandkids. Is it possible to accommodate the horses or
else have the off leash park somewhere else along the Hydro right of way. There’s lots of room.
We have a park in the area that is not being used (Martha Currie House on it). Why not use it –
upgrade – save money. The whole community loves the horses that are there. Why do we
have to move the little country atmosphere we have. Besides Hydro lines are not maintained
and are disgusting now. Are Parks going to maintain them properly or just install and forget
about it. I would totally approve the dog park if the horses stay where they area. Why can’t we
have both?
I’m concerned about dogs barking all day. I’m concerned about dogs getting out of the
enclosed area (4’ fence doesn’t seem high enough!) I’ve been bitten and accosted by dogs off
leash and uncontrolled by their owners, who were present, but couldn’t get dog to obey!
No park our grand children wait all summer for our apple tree to be ready to feed the horses.
Our dog has lots of places to run. Quit ruining Cloverdale.
My 5 year old daughter and myself walk daily to feed the horses and observe the amount of
congestion there already is on 184th Street. We believe that as an alternate site, perhaps the
power lines along and through 179th to 180th Street would be a more appropriate spot, seeing
everyone uses it as an off leash area already. I have a large dog and don’t believe this is a
suitable area for (no trees, no vegetation, very wet land) the park. Also, too close to Don
Christian Elementary School. Would be very sad to lose our neighbourhood horses as well.
Nothing like a little country in the city.
Well I strongly oppose this because one I’m the one that would lose the horses and two for all
the people with dogs in the area. Their dogs would go crazy.
I would rather see a horse park setup. Horse owners are more responsible from what I have
seen in the past and they don’t attract teenage partyers.
(1.) I have seen a lot of horse parks around and they seem to be keeped a lot cleaner from
garbage and debris. They also don’t seem to attracted the teenage party crowd that the other
parks attract.
(2.) 184th is already a very busy street and adding this would totally increase the high volume of
traffic already overwhelming this area.
(3.) Before causing a traffic jam for use residence how about the city do some thing about our
streets first and actually plan the whole system first.
         (1.) Widen road.
         (2.) Water mains for new housing not there yet.
         (3.) Power set up for homes not there yet.
         (4.) Finally do a park.
Set your whole plan in place then come talk to us again with a proper presentation. This whole
discussion group was very poorly set up and a total waste of our tax dollars.
Not here! Move it south of Hwy 10 and 184 Street along railroad tracks.
You suck!
The Zealots rock! You suck!
We love horses! Not you! You just lost my vote!
Not a good idea. There area lots of area that can be used. The big effect on taking the horses
out of the community. People just walk by to see the horses. I do not believe this will benefit
our neighbourhood. Lot more car and foot traffic. Dog barking. All other dog in the
neighbourhood.
(1.) Poor site/wet/Hydro lines/Traffic
(2.) Lose of horses
(3.) Dogs barking all the time
(4.) Lose on wildlife (Pheasants/Rabbits/Birds etc.)
When I have visited other dog off leash parks I find that dog owners are not responsible and do
not follow the rules.
Go somewhere else! Or at least move the parking and keep the horses!
This would add to the already traffic problems in an area that has an elementary school, day
care and church.
The idea for the park is okay but the location is not an appropriate choice as it is a not a better
use of the land from its current stat (housing horses). A new location should be put forth in
order to go ahead with this idea.
We disapprove of this action.
Poor location.
I hope it NEVER happens! Too much traffic. Destroy wildlife habitat. Attract rats, mice, etc.
I believe dogs deserve their own personal home space, i.e.; fenced yard of decent lot size or,
when taken on public property they should always be on leash for their own protection as well
as protection of humans in respect to various dog temperaments.
Please do not displace our neighbours and their horses. Also do not want a parking lot near our
home.
I am totally against this “dog park”, if it uproots the wonderful “horses and paddock” that have
been there for years! I am sure there are other areas in Cloverdale that could be used.
I am opposed having a “dog off leash park”, it its meaning to remove the horses and paddock.
They have been there at least 10 years. All parks have “dog on leash” / owners pickup there
   dogs mess. Why this particular area / if dogs are allowed to be free to run. This area is to small
   for what you want.
   None.
   Don’t build it.
   Too close to the road. No trees for shade.
   You need to find a better location. It s not fair to evict the horses.
   We do not want to get rid of the horses, where the park will be. We do not want all the kids and
   graffiti and litter and smell that come with this park. NO!!!
   I am fiercely opposed to having a dog off leash park in this area because not only would the
   neighbourhood horses have to move but it would bring unwanted traffic into our neighbourhood
   and take away the small town feeling that we moved here for. Having a parking lot there would
   potentially invite loitering, partying and increased vandalism. The police have no way of
   policing the power lines if vandals were to run in that area. There area a lot of children walking
   on the walkways through the power lines to school. Having an increase in traffic and people is
   potentially a dangerous situation and they might not be able to walk to and from school alone.
   We live in a quiet neighbourhood in which many people own dogs. These dogs live in nice big
   backyards. Bringing in more people and dogs to the area will make the dogs who are protecting
   their backyards, bark constantly. This will be disruptive to our nice quiet neighbourhood.
   Cloverdale is a quaint suburban community. Having a lighted parking lot and a dog park
   through the power lines is not condusive to this neighbourhood. If an off leash park is needed,
   then look elsewhere and not in this area.
   I strongly disagree with the creation of this off leash park and the addition of the facilities that
   would accompany it! Public safety is at risk (Dogs as well as the attraction the facilities would
   represent after dark) as well as our neighbourhood peace and quiet.
   The area is too busy for a dog park of any kind, the people in this neighbourhood have large
   yards and do not need a park to walk their pet. Also, if there was a dog park, all the
   neighbourhood dogs would be barking constantly. If the dog park was put in, the small town
   feel that makes the community welcoming, would be lost.
   We don’t want this being our property! It will bring increased traffic/pedestrians behind our
   property, barking dogs, increased vandalism and theft to our properties along with the smell in
   the summer when dogs are not cleaned up after!
   Do not want dogs in our back yard!! Period.
   Strongly opposed. We don’t need any more congestion in this area. Rather see it as is. We
   would rather see the plants, trees etc that have been planted and see the horses than dogs
   running around.
   Strongly opposed. There are other areas more suited to something like this. Even if parking is
   provided I feel people would still park in our cul-de-sac and walk through our walkway. We don’t
   need any more congestion in this area.

Other:
   There are other parks in the area (i.e. the one the “Martha Currie” house is one) that are never
   used that could be easily converted and I don’t think they should displace the horses that are on
   the rental property. They are an important part of the community and they should not be
   displaced. Why should we get rid of all traces of rural life? I would be 100% for the dog park if
   not for the horses being forced to leave. If the power lines were mowed or maintained at all
   they would already be suitable for dog walking.
   As with most things nowadays, I believe the park should operated on a user pay basis. I won’t
   be able to take my grandchildren to this park for fear of an off leash dog attacking them.
   Therefore I feel my tax dollars should not be spent on this park. If Surrey wants to donate this
   land, that’s find, but I believe the maintenance should be paid for by the user.
   Do not want to see the horses go – too much traffic. DO NOT want it!!!
Interest in this plan:

Other Surrey Community Resident (18)                Park Neighbour (77)
                                                       Close neighbour – right beside (1)
                                                       No Interest! (1)
                                                       Park at the end of our walkway (2)
Other (16)
   Cloverdale Resident (8)
   Dog and dog day care owner (1)
   I have lived here for 14+ years! (1)
   Friend of park neighbour (1)
   Don’t own a dog (1)
   Dog owner (1)
   Behind our home (1)
   This would be directly behind our property (1)

				
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