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									                                   CITY OF SHAWNEE
                                CITY COUNCIL MEETING
                                   OCTOBER 27, 2008
                                        7:30 P.M.

Mayor Meyers called the meeting to order at 7:32 p.m. in the Shawnee City Hall Council
Chambers. He welcomed the public and all stood and recited the Pledge of Allegiance, followed
by a moment of silence.

 Councilmembers Present                  Staff Present
 Councilmember Scott                     City Manager Gonzales
 Councilmember Pflumm                    Assistant City Manager Charlesworth
 Councilmember Sawyer                    City Attorney Rainey
 Councilmember Goode                     Assistant City Attorney Rainey
 Councilmember Kuhn                      City Engineer Wesselschmidt
 Councilmember Straub                    Public Works Director Freyermuth
 Councilmember Sandifer                  Planning Director Chaffee
 Councilmember Distler                   Police Chief Morgan
                                         Fire Chief Hudson
                                         Finance Director Kidney
                                         Parks Superintendent Helwig
                                         Information Technologies Director Doherty
                                         Stormwater Manager Gregory

Members of the public who spoke: (Business from the Floor) RAY ERLICHMAN, 7510
Garnett Street, MARY WHITE, 12715 W. 49 th Terrace, BETTY RHODES, 4929 Parkhill.



2.     REVIEW MINUTES OF THE FINANCE                          AND      ADMINISTRATION

       OCTOBER 6, 2008.

       SEPTEMBER 18, 2008.

       AMINDA (22705 WEST 47TH STREET).

       Having been adopted, Resolution 1568 was assigned.
PAGE 2                            CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                            OCTOBER 27, 2008


         Having been adopted, Resolution 1569 was assigned.

Councilmember Goode, seconded by Councilmember Kuhn, moved to approve the entire
Consent Agenda. The motion carried 8-0.


         CITY PROJECT.

         Mayor Meyers recognized Cub Scout Pack #3284, Den #2 and Boy Scout Pack #3351.

         Mayor Meyers recognized the students from the Shawnee Mission Northwest
         Government class.


         Mayor Meyers recognized Eagle Scout Mark Wheeler from Troop #93 who successfully
         completed his Eagle Scout project with an emphasis to educate the public about the need
         to prevent pollution of the storm drainage system in order to preserve the water quality of
         the City‟s streams and other aquatic environments. He read a Certificate of Appreciation
         and presented Mark with a gift of the City‟s appreciation.



         Councilmember Scott, seconded by Councilmember Goode, moved to adopt a resolution
         providing for notice of a public hearing on December 8, 2008 at Shawnee City Hall,
         providing for the consideration of a redevelopment project plan. The motion carried 8-0.
         Having been adopted, Resolution 1570 was assigned.


         Councilmember Goode, seconded by Councilmember Sawyer, moved to conduct a public
         hearing on the petition to vacate public right-of-way for the alley in Block 37, Original
         Town of Shawnee (SAV-08-006). The motion carried 8-0.
PAGE 3                            CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                             OCTOBER 27, 2008

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated Mr. Thomas Roberts presented a petition to the City
         which is now before the Governing Body requesting the vacation of the alley in the
         original town plat of Shawnee, Block 37. He stated this is more specifically in a block
         bounded by 59th Street on the north side, 59 th Terrace on the south side, Barton on the
         west and Nieman Road on the east. He stated that would be the block that includes
         Donovan‟s Service Station with which most everyone is familiar.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated the petitioners state that the alley vacation is needed
         for a commercial restaurant building that Mr. Roberts is planning to build on his property.
         He stated that Mr. Roberts has not yet submitted application for approval for site plan for
         this proposed development. He stated the petition was signed by all property owners
         adjacent to the proposed alley vacation.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated that while the right-of-way may have been open in
         the past, it is not currently improved as a roadway, nor do any of the adjoining property
         owners use the right-of-way or alley for access. He stated a Notice of Public Hearing
         was published in the City‟s official newspaper on Wednesday, October 1, 2008. He
         stated as of this date, the City Clerk has not received any inquiries or written objections.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated a notice that was written was sent to the utilities that
         serve this area regarding the proposed vacation and as of this time, the only utility that
         indicated they have facilities in that area are AT&T/Southwestern Bell who have
         facilities in that proposed alley vacation and would request that a utility easement be
         retained to cover their facilities.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated in reviewing this petition, staff has found that
         subject to reservation of a public utility easement, no private rights will be injured or
         endangered by granting the vacation, that the public will suffer no loss or inconvenience
         by such vacation, and that in justice to the petitioners the vacation should be granted. He
         stated staff recommends granting the petitioner‟s request to vacate the alley.

         Councilmember Sawyer, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to conclude the
         public hearing on the petition to vacate public right-of-way for the alley in Block 37,
         Original Town of Shawnee (SAV-08-006). The motion carried 8-0.

         Councilmember Sawyer, seconded by Councilmember Sandifer, moved to pass an
         ordinance ordering the vacation of public right-of-way for the alley in Block 37, Original
         Town of Shawnee (SAV-08-006). The motion carried 8-0. Having passed, Ordinance
         2918 was assigned.


OCTOBER 07, 2008

PAGE 4                             CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                            OCTOBER 27, 2008

         Councilmember Pflumm stated that the Committee discussed the updated CIP based on
         the 2009 Budget and the financial forecast of all funds. The Committee also discussed
         Midland Drive, Barker to I-435.

         Councilmember Straub stated there were questions on the different options for Midland
         Drive. He stated most of them either say they are eligible or not eligible for funds, but
         Option #2 does not state whether or not it is eligible for outside funding sources. He
         stated it would be a 10 foot multi purpose trail. He stated it looks like the other ones that
         are eligible are a 10 foot shoulder on one side for pedestrians and cyclists, so Option #4
         and Option #2 seem to be similar.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated Option #2, since it indicates a multi purpose trail in a
         permanent location, would certainly be more likely to receive some type of grant money,
         if grant money was available than an option that would be temporary such as a paved

         Councilmember Straub asked if it would be able to be outside sources most likely.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt replied it would be similar to some of the funding the City
         has received for the Clear Creek Trail, Stump Park Trail, and Gamblin Park Trail.

         Councilmember Straub stated it is an 80/20 on most of those he believes.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated they are eligible up to 80/20 if there is enough
         money and that is the maximum amount they can be funded.

         Councilmember Straub stated both of them for Clear Creek got 80/20.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated some of the more recent ones are trying to spread
         that money out around the state and take the same amount of money and put it on more
         trails throughout the state, so even though those projects are eligible up to 80/20, some
         agencies are not quite getting that amount. He stated it is subject to what funding is
         available in the future and the number of worthy projects out there.

         Councilmember Straub asked if Clear Creek, both this year‟s and next year‟s, go the

         Parks and Recreation Director Holman replied the one they are doing now is 80/20. He
         stated the one from Monticello to Woodland is a 70/30.

         Councilmember Straub stated even if the City got a 50/50, that is still good because it is a
         permanent trail. He stated he is sure part of this cost of the $2.7 is also part of the road
         easements they will have to get – the right-of-ways. He stated it is actually land the City
         will have to purchase anyway. He knows there is a cost to put the trail, but there will be a
         cost whether the City expands the road or not down the road.
PAGE 5                             CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                              OCTOBER 27, 2008

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated the estimate for that particular option includes trying
         to make it a permanent trail and a permanent fill for that permanent trail right-of-way,
         and some storm drainage improvements, so those would be some costs that would lower
         a full Midland Drive project at some point in the future.

         Councilmember Straub stated that is right, so he does not understand why they would not
         at least try to put that out to those others to see if they can get it in the future. He stated
         he is not sure what trails systems are lined up for the next few years. He stated he knows
         they have Clear Creek for the next two years, but does not know what other trails are
         scheduled for 2011 and 2012.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated the project currently under construction will go
         along Clear Creek from K7 to Monticello. He stated they have funding to go from
         Monticello to basically Woodland. He stated the desire at the City level, as well as the
         County level, would be to get that third piece in place which would go from Woodland to
         the County Mill Creek streamway trail.

         Councilmember Straub stated that is this year, next year, and 2010. He asked if they
         have a project set at this point for 2011 and could they look to do that at that time. He
         stated that he would think the Midland trail would be used a lot more, at this point, than
         the Clear Creek Trail, but understands they are doing those two so it makes sense to
         continue that trail.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated those particular funding sources for both of the Clear
         Creek trail projects are federal highway funds. He stated the federal highway plan in
         future years is not in place, so certainly that funding program needs to be put together at
         the federal level and then they will see how much of that comes down to the various
         states and to the Mid American Regional Council (MARC) and then the City makes that
         funding at that point.

         Councilmember Straub asked if the City could at least plan or look into that so they do
         not just sweep it under the rug and then are asking themselves in two years what their
         next project is. He stated they all agree that it is a very used trail. He stated he drives
         down that street all the time and there are bikes and runners going up that street a lot.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated certainly with discussions such as this, what shows
         up on the CIP . . .

         Councilmember Straub interjected that this is not on the City‟s capital improvement plan.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated even discussions about needed projects, is what staff
         takes into account when they receive that application from KDOT, the Feds, or MARC,
         saying they have this funding out here and are accepting applications. He stated they
         would then take all that into account and come up with some ideas of what they would
PAGE 6                             CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                              OCTOBER 27, 2008

         like to apply for funding and then bring those before the Council to get their concurrence
         before actually making that application.

         Councilmember Straub stated he thinks it would be a win/win if they got 70/30 on this
         deal and are buying right-of-way with part of those funds. He stated it will be a win/win/
         win to get this in ahead of time, whether they do this street three years from now or 10
         years from now.

         Councilmember Straub stated he thinks if they did the trail, the street would be a lot more
         functional as it is, so he is glad Councilmember Pflumm brought up this discussion. He
         stated this is already a dangerous road and have already had one pedestrian killed on that
         road. He stated maybe if there was a trail he would not have been there, he does not
         know. He stated he likes the idea that Councilmember Pflumm came up with of naming
         the trail after that individual.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated the staff, and this is probably the third year, have
         presented a CIP to the Council that is basically funded every year. He stated with some
         of the years in the past the next three years are funded, but the remaining years are
         somewhat of a wish list. He stated this year and the last two years they want to bring a
         completely funded CIP to the Council, as well as to the citizens. He stated this trail or
         anything else on Midland is not presently shown on there and in order to add that on
         essentially something needs to come off.

         Councilmember Straub asked if they can add it as a wish list and see what happens, as
         they used to do that.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated that is what he is saying, they used to do that. He
         stated it provided a list to where if some extra money happened to show up out there, that
         would be what they wanted to spend it on. He stated he also gave them some problems
         with property owners on those streets, because there were projects that had been on the
         five year CIP for 10 or 15 years because they were always on the out year. He stated that
         based on the information they have received over the previous two years, and this year,
         they can have a funded plan out there that is based on funding projections.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated priorities are going to change from year to year. If
         they get a lot of development along Renner, Renner might jump up, but if they hold off
         some it may stay off. He stated they can at least review it annually.

         Councilmember Straub stated he appreciates that, but if they could get a 70/30 on this and
         are basically getting that trail and instead of $2.7 million it is closer to $800,000, it would
         be a nice addition to the whole trail system throughout the County and would be a
         win/win with the County and City, connecting a lot of trail systems together. He stated
         he thinks they should put this on the CIP and try to figure it out if they have $800,000 if
         they get a 70/30, but if they do not get a 70/30 they may get an 80/20 or a 60/40. He
         stated at that point, they can add it on or take it off.
PAGE 7                             CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                            OCTOBER 27, 2008

         Councilmember Straub stated if someone is going to give the City 50%, 60%, 70%, or
         80% of the money for the County or State or wherever they get the funding, he thinks it is
         a no-brainer to put a trail system in for the City that would connect that many. He stated
         that is basically all he has to say on the whole thing.

         Councilmember Sandifer stated with the budget the way it is, he can not see where the
         City could crunch anything anywhere to even acknowledge this project at this time.

         Councilmember Sandifer stated this is in his ward and he has been door-to-door with
         these people. He stated anyone who is trying to put a trail in right next to the road at the
         moment is probably 75/25 with 75% of the people he has talked to about this being
         against it at the moment and do not want it. He stated they do not want the road or trails
         closer to their houses. He stated to put a trail out by the creek and to do an easement and
         everything else, and he thinks it does sound nice and is not against having the trail going
         out through there, but he is against the timing for it because right now the City is having a
         hard time. He stated the City would have to take money away from overlaying some of
         their roads or doing anything at the moment to do any type of work like this. He stated
         the City streets are more important than a trail at this moment in time, at least in his

         Councilmember Pflumm asked City Engineer Wesselschmidt if Option #2 is really the
         option down by the creek.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt answered no. He stated Option #2 was basically grading
         out to the permanent right-of-way width, whether that is beyond the south side or the
         north side, but thinks the staff has always looked at the south side which would be closer
         to the creek and some of the County park.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated there was also an Option #5 in the PowerPoint
         presentation, which was a multi-use trail down by the creek.

         Councilmember Pflumm stated that was with five foot shoulders.

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated that is one section right next to the golf course where
         they unfortunately can not get right along the creek so yes, that would be five foot
         shoulders in that area once they get down to Ogg Road, having it go along the creek to
         Knights of Columbus Park.

         Councilmember Pflumm stated he would like to comment on the overall CIP. He stated
         just with the economic times they are all in right now, more than what they think would
         be wish list in the present day, so just because it is on the CIP does not mean they will be
         able to afford it in the future.

         Mayor Meyers stated that is always correct.
PAGE 8                             CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                            OCTOBER 27, 2008

         City Engineer Wesselschmidt stated to follow up, he would emphasize the paragraph
         crafted by Finance Director Kidney regarding the fact that this is based on economic
         projections and sales tax projections at this time. He stated the staff will need to continue
         to monitor that to see if it is coming in and certainly less than that they would need to
         make some adjustments, even to this plan.

         Councilmember Goode stated at this point in time he does not think they can visualize
         what is going to happen as far as what the City is going into this fall, as far as grants are
         concerned, because they do not know that right now. He stated the grant situation in the
         next four or five years may be more liberal and easier to obtain than they ever have had
         the opportunity to apply for before. He stated as far as he is concerned, he is in no hurry
         to push anything at this point in time, but is looking forward to a drastic change in this
         type of funding and thinks they should be looking for that when it comes about.

         Councilmember Goode, seconded by Councilmember Scott, moved to approve the 2009-
         2014 Capital Improvement Plan. The motion carried 8-0.


         a)     TIF Districts.

                RAY ERLICHMAN, 7510 Garnett Street, stated at the past couple of Council
                meetings they have had some items brought up regarding TIF districts. He stated
                after reading the Kansas City Star last week, there was an article by Hearne
                Christopher that stood out. He stated the article was short for Mr. Christopher and
                he just wanted to get it into tonight‟s meeting. He stated it is unusual for Mr.
                Christopher to comment on these kinds of things because he is classified as an
                entertainment correspondent and not a political analyst.

                Merriam Mall Trying to Land a Tenant

                RAY ERLICHMAN stated he will not read the whole article, even though it is
                short, but it boils down to the fact that the City of Merriam, Kansas passed a TIF
                to finance this new mall. He stated he believes everyone knows Councilmember
                Leep, who is somewhat of a maverick in the City of Merriam but he refers to this
                mall as the Great Wall of China in Merriam paid for by the taxpayers.

                RAY ERLICHMAN stated this mall only wound up with one tenant – Circuit
                City and that tenant has stopped construction or the finish of the construction
                because they do not know what they are going to do. He stated they now have
                this whole mall area empty and vacant with no tenants whatsoever. He stated Mr.
                Leep makes a comment that they had to buy out approximately 58 houses and/or
                five or six different businesses which still could have been paying taxes to the
                City of Merriam.
PAGE 9                          CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                            OCTOBER 27, 2008

              RAY ERLICHMAN stated he brings this up because there has been a lot of talk
              about everything from the CIP to other things and people are bringing up the
              current budget situation in these discussions. He stated that he thinks the Council
              has to be a little more cautious in any type of tax abatement or TIF district at this
              point in time.

              RAY ERLICHMAN stated one thing that struck him at the last meeting was the
              comment that one of the projects would bring in 68 jobs to the City of Shawnee.
              He stated that in itself is a pretty good number, considering the size of Shawnee.
              He stated if they go back to where he grew up in New York City, 68 people are
              like one floor in an apartment building.

              RAY ERLICHMAN stated about a year and a half ago he made a suggestion,
              which he was later told was actually illegal, to require businesses to require a
              certain number of jobs based on people moving into town. He stated he followed
              that up with the statement that it would be nice if they could have just found out
              that information without making it a requirement – how many of these new jobs
              were actually creating new residents in the City of Shawnee.

              RAY ERLICHMAN stated referring back to this TIF project, 68 new jobs would
              be great but wonders if they would be 68 new people or families coming to live
              here in town, or just one, or two, or maybe three. He asked what kind of money
              these people would be spending in town. He stated most of the employees who
              work in these healthcare centers, and noted that he has quite a bit of experience
              with these places do not even go out to lunch. He stated they do not patronize the
              local restaurants because they get the benefit of working in a place that houses a
              full kitchen and get to pay less than they would at a fast food restaurant for a full
              meal when they are there.

              RAY ERLICHMAN stated he thinks the City needs to start looking a lot closer at
              some of these TIFs and tax abatement areas, with regards to will they really be
              viable, or will the City end up with something like the Great Wall of China in
              Merriam and will they actually be creating more residents in the City that will be
              spending money in other areas, or will these people strictly be commuters into
              Shawnee and not contribute to the city as a whole, while the City is giving up
              money to the developer.

         b)   Trail in Heather Glen Subdivision.

              MARY WHITE, 12715 W. 49 th Terrace, asked for the councilmember who
              represents Heather Glen and then asked if really all of the councilmembers
              represent Heather Glen. She stated when she was here the last time, she talked
              about a change in the scope of amenities being offered to those of them who live
              in Heather Glen and bought property, while a different amenity was dangled
              before them.
PAGE 10                      CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                               OCTOBER 27, 2008

          MARY WHITE stated Planning Director Chaffee said that he could not tell the
          developer what amenities to provide, but on the other hand if they look at it from
          her perspective, the developer told Mr. Chaffee or whoever the Planning
          Commission was at the time, what he would provide at the time the development
          began. She stated people bought homes with that in mind and now it is changed.

          MARY WHITE stated it is interesting when the Council was talking about
          vacating a right-of-way, because they were concerned about the impact on the
          neighbors. She stated no concern has been expressed for the neighbors of the
          right-of-way that it will not be built or if it will be built. She stated to her, it looks
          as if the new amenities serve only one purpose and that is to help the developers
          sell the one lot that he now has listed at $150,000, because that is the only one
          that will benefit from it.

          MARY WHITE stated she thinks it would be appropriate for the Council to
          consider changing their ways to require a developer to give the amenity that is in
          place at the time the first home is sold and compel him to build that amenity
          without change.

          Mayor Meyers stated he knows that was something that was brought up and does
          not know if they got any answers or if that is legally binding to a developer or if it
          is something that the City could actually require. He asked Planning Director
          Chaffee to elaborate.

          Planning Director Chaffee explained the status, in that the Planning Department
          contacted Mr. Lambie, or Mr. Lambie‟s engineer, to have him review what they
          are going to do and when they are going to do it and look at the size of the trail to
          see if it is comparable in size to what he had initially indicated to developers to

          Planning Director Chaffee stated the Councilmembers are all aware that the City
          does not basically tell private developers how to do their business. He stated that
          developers give the City an indication of what they may or may not want to do.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated some of the problems that happen along the
          way, and this certainly deals with more substantial improvements other than a
          trail system, but even in Forest Park Estates they have the trail system and it did
          not work out and they ended up going with some sidewalks, where Heather Glen
          has both sidewalks and a trail as an amenity.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated with swimming pools it is difficult for a
          developer to go in and build a swimming pool and expect it to be maintained. He
          stated in the first plat, there may be 15 property owners who are trying to make
          payments to maintain the pool and do those kinds of things. He stated amenities
          frequently happen at a later date.
PAGE 11                     CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                             OCTOBER 27, 2008

          Planning Director Chaffee stated, as he indicated at the last meeting, the amenities
          that Mr. Lambie provides in Heather Glen will have to be completed before the
          last building permit is issued to assure that it does get complete.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated at the last meeting, there was a comment about
          another tract of land that was not adjacent to the first tract of land that was deeded
          in the first plat and what the additional tract that Mr. Lambie provided in the plat
          was for the monument sign at the northeast corner of 51 st Street and, he believes,
          Parkhill, which is not uncommon that the ground around the monument sign
          would go to the homes association as they can maintain it, plant it, and go on with
          that property to do what they need to do such as mow around it, rather it being on
          a property owner‟s property and the homes association coming back at a later
          date. He stated the City has seen this happen in some of the older subdivisions,
          saying it is on [your] property and [we] are not going to maintain it, so an
          additional tract was provided at the corner of the last plat for the monument sign.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated they have not returned the call, but he has let
          them know that it is important that they find out at that time. He stated they do
          have Mrs. White‟s phone number and he believes the Planning Department has
          been working with another person with the homes association so he can relay that
          information. He stated that probably the City‟s comment back to them, after they
          see what they want to do, is advise them that it is probably in their best interest to
          meet with the homes association to go over any modifications or changes they
          want to do and work it out amongst themselves.

          Mayor Meyers asked if it would be something that would be legally binding of the

          Councilmember Kuhn stated she is not saying that they should not have to do a
          trail system, but when a developer sells two lots and someone asked if they can
          move it [this way or that], she worries about the City becoming very involved in
          the micromanagement of what more or less is a private contract between whoever
          buys which lot.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated she will speak personally on this, and certainly holds
          the highest regard for the family who built her subdivision, but she darn well
          knows they told her the pool was going in the year she moved in and would go in
          just down the street from her house. She stated it actually went in three years
          later over in the other subdivision. She stated that is somewhat of a „buyer
          beware‟ situation and something she guesses she should have had written in the
          contract, but does not think that the City is due to enforce where her pool ended

          Planning Director Chaffee stated he thinks in this situation it was about getting a
          measurement on how long the walking trail was initially and just sketching it out
          and having it shown on the tract on the eastern side of Parkhill. He stated that he
PAGE 12                     CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                             OCTOBER 27, 2008

          has done a sketch for an alternate plan that does show a walking trail and he is not
          trying to get rid of the walking trail and has visited with him to say if they are 50
          feet short, is there something they can do to add another 50 feet or are they
          basically there or running into obstacles where they can not do something.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated he does not believe in any situation that the
          developer has said he had no intention of doing anything at all.

          Mayor Meyers thanked Mrs. White for her comment.

          BETTY RHODES, 4929 Parkhill, stated she lives in Heather Glen. She stated the
          amenity as perceived, the last one of the walking trail, is about one-fourth the
          distance that the walking trail was to be originally. She stated she would hope
          that the City Council would hold these developers responsible for doing
          something that they initially said they were going to do.

          BETTY RHODES stated she feels that they are not fully representative and do not
          have anyone except the City Council to be responsible for them, because they do
          not have a voice. She stated they are not yet a homes association because the
          developer still owns some of the lots. She stated they do not have any recourse,
          except for the City Council and hopes they really think about that.

          BETTY RHODES stated just like Councilmember Sawyer said earlier, she thinks
          the City should be responsible to make the developers do what they initially say
          they are going to do. She thanked the Council for their time.

          Councilmember Distler asked why that is so difficult to enforce. She stated the
          City enforces where the fire hydrants and storm drains are located and the
          distances from the house to the road.

          City Attorney Rainey stated the building permits are really occupancy permits
          withholding building permits and withholding occupancy permits are the simplest
          and easiest and most common way of enforcing them. He stated if they are not
          selling any houses or units anyway or if they have financial difficulty, that may
          not get anything accomplished, but that is usually the first step.

          City Attorney Rainey stated usually if a developer is not doing what they
          originally said they were going to do, it is because of financial issues or other
          matters. He stated in those cases, it becomes difficult to enforce them.

          Councilmember Sawyer stated the developers come in here wanting approval for
          smaller lots and are going to do all these things. He stated the developers throw
          out a plan and he did not have them throw them out, but Planning Director
          Chaffee told them what they had to do, the requirements for zoning, to get these
          smaller lots. He stated he does not see the issue here. He stated if the developers
          want smaller lots, the theory is they make more money off the end deal and that is
PAGE 13                     CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                              OCTOBER 27, 2008

          great, because the City gets more houses, but now they should have to do what
          they said they were going to do and that is where he gets so frustrated with this

          Councilmember Sawyer stated the developers all come up here and says they are
          going to do this, this, and this, but then years later they just say they don‟t want to
          do those things anymore. He stated without naming names, he can think of one
          developer right now that this Council caved on because the guy made the
          agreement that that is what he would do and then something else came along and
          he now wants to do something different. He stated this Council caved and said,
          “Okay, you don‟t have to live by your word”. He stated that he did not make the
          word, as the developers make the word.

          Councilmember Kuhn asked Planning Director Chaffee, because she agrees with
          Councilmember Sawyer and thinks the City should hold the developer
          accountable who says they are going to do something in order to get something,
          but does not think she was here for one of the references, but going back to that
          she agrees. She stated her understanding of the way their zoning request for that
          goes, is that if they come in and ask for that special zoning in order to have
          smaller lots, the City does not say to them they have to bring forward „this plan‟
          and each of their lots has to be exactly where they told them it would be and every
          trail has to be exactly where they told them it would be and every fire hydrant has
          to be exactly where they told them it would be. She stated the City said to the
          developer that in order to qualify for these smaller lots they must provide
          amenities and showed them the list of amenities that qualify.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated the City asks the developer to give them a list of
          ideas of the things they think they are going to do. She stated the developers give
          them an idea of what they think they are going to do and can come back based on
          either homeowners association discussions, change in the developer, change in the
          buying habits of the public, however it comes up be it fair or not, but they can
          come back and say that [this] did not work out for whatever reason, but are
          replacing one amenity with another and meeting what the City told them they had
          to do.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated Councilmember Kuhn is pretty much correct.
          He stated the other thing the developer is required to do in planned single family,
          is they have to plat open space into a normal subdivision and is not any kind of
          requirement. He stated there is a percentage amount that has to be provided and
          then they go back in and look at if the standard R1 zoning district is a 9,000
          square foot lot and this lot is 6,500 square feet, then that calculates into at least
          2,500 square feet of open space and do that on a lot-by-lot-by-lot basis. He stated
          that determines how much open space they are required to plat and set aside so it
          is not all in a lot like those who live in traditional R1, RS, RE subdivisions are
          required to provide.
PAGE 14                     CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                             OCTOBER 27, 2008

          Planning Director Chaffee stated in some situations a developer did not even
          necessarily say „These are the amenities I am going to provide‟ and just set aside
          the open space and then come back at a later time and make some type of
          improvements. He stated sometimes it may be that the City just wants to get land
          for their streamway park system and get that dedication of land and have it set

          Planning Director Chaffee used the example of a case over in Gray Oaks where
          some of the ground was set aside and went from Monticello Road over to K7
          Highway. He stated the developer was not required to put in a trail and the City
          knew they were going to put in a trail at a later date. He stated that that particular
          ground was zoned planned single family and they did not have to buy that ground
          and the land was donated through the rezoning and platting process for that
          development. He stated they have a swimming pool area up in Gray Oaks and
          sort of moved the location from where they thought it was first going to be up on
          Monticello Road to over in Woodsonia, sort of more in the middle of the

          Councilmember Kuhn asked as far as holding them accountable, if they are going
          to have a conversation as to whether or not they are going to change the rules that
          is fine, but the rules as far as what the City gave them when they said „Here is
          what you have to do‟ and „This is what you have to give us‟, so they are planning
          to or intending to hold them accountable to the fact that they had it to build and
          here is their list of amenities that the City told them in the beginning were
          acceptable and they said they were going to build a trail, so they want equal for

          Councilmember Kuhn stated they want to know how many square feet was on
          what they drew out for them. She stated they want to know what they are trading
          for, so it is equivalent to if not the same, and tell the City how they are going to
          make it different.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated that is correct, asking them if they are making
          the trail a little shorter, but in return doing a pavilion.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated he feels the need to make the point, just so it is
          out there on record, that Mr. Lambie has not told anyone that it is his intent to
          walk away and not provide any amenity. He stated it is Mr. Lambie‟s intent to
          still provide a walking trail and some other items. He stated Mr. Lambie has
          visited with the Planning Department about this and he has not spoken personally
          with Mr. Lambie about this. He stated that he wants everyone to understand that
          Mr. Lambie is not telling the residents or anyone else that he is walking away and
          not doing what he said he was going to do.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated it may be a different configuration than before
          and that is why the Planning Department has had the discussion to figure out how
PAGE 15                     CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                              OCTOBER 27, 2008

          long that trail showed on the east side of Parkhill going up in that area and how
          many feet different is it and then go from there.

          Councilmember Straub stated maybe he does not understand the scenario, but he
          thought when someone plats something they are saying „this is what is going to be
          here and this is my property line for Lot 1, and here is my property line for Lot 2,
          and this is my plat for where I am going to put open ground, and this is my
          detention basin, this is the ground I am actually going to donate to the City‟, so
          they usually have a full plat outlining things.

          Councilmember Straub stated he agrees with Councilmember Sawyer in that he
          does not understand if they said they were going to put a trail „here‟, then they put
          a trail „there‟, it sounds like, at least from the residents and he is not specifically
          talking about Heather Glen as there are other subdivisions and are future
          subdivisions so he would probably support a motion from Councilmember
          Sawyer if he wanted to change it, because he has been on the Planning
          Commission and knows more about it than he does.

          Councilmember Straub stated he does not know why they cannot hold these
          people accountable. He stated he knows with the subdivision he did, he was
          pretty much held accountable. He stated if the developer wants to change it, then
          they have to come in front of the Planning Commission and possibly the Council,
          sometimes they do and sometimes the don‟t depending on the change, but the
          residents have already purchased under the assumption of the diagram they saw
          and the design they saw, so they are in a position to say they bought with „apples‟
          and now they are going to get „oranges‟. He stated maybe the apples and oranges
          are equal in value.

          Councilmember Straub stated he is okay with the way the rules are today. He
          stated he is also okay at looking at modifying the rules so when someone does a
          drawing and unless they do change it give notice to all the residents and say they
          are changing [this] and want them all to know that they are going in front of the
          Planning Commission to change it.

          Councilmember Straub stated if there are 10 homeowners there, then there are 10
          homeowners there and they can get into discussions with them. He stated there
          may be 150 homeowners there depending on the size of the community and it is
          all worked out together instead of a developer saying they were going to do [this]
          and is what the homeowners approved, but as long as the can bring them
          something they are okay.

          Councilmember Straub stated that is kind of what he thinks he is hearing it is. He
          stated that it does not sit very well with him if that is the way it has to be.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated a preliminary plat is a preliminary plat. He
          stated preliminary development plans are preliminary development plans.
PAGE 16                     CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                               OCTOBER 27, 2008

          Councilmember Straub stated part of it was completely platted, because someone
          can not build without a full plat.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated that is correct, the developer comes in and plats
          the ground off their final plats, but that is not the time the developer is saying
          what kinds of amenities they want to do.

          Councilmember Straub stated when he did his plat they had it all done on the
          preliminary and said what they were going to do.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated that is correct and Councilmember Straub
          followed through and did his early. He stated the City appreciates those kinds of
          things, but some developers do not do it up front.

          Councilmember Straub stated if he bought a house and was expecting to have a
          trail behind his house or not have one and that is what he wanted and then it
          comes up that it was changed – that is what he is talking about. He stated he
          knows the developers do the Topo maps and knows they know what the grade is
          and other things.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated that is why when they get the information from
          Mr. Lambie, the Planning Department will advise him to visit with the residents
          and let them know what he is doing.

          Councilmember Straub stated that is under the rules the City has had and he is
          fine with whatever happens there, but he is also fine with looking at changing it so
          this does not happen again down the road. He stated there is not that much
          ground left in Shawnee to develop.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated the staff is looking to redo the zoning ordinance
          and that is certainly something they could add in, where if a developer says they
          are going to do something „right in a specific place‟, then they will not be granted
          any changes.

          Councilmember Straub stated they could change it to read that way, unless the
          developer comes to the City for approval. He stated the developers can change
          anything they want as long as they get consensus.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated they can certainly write that in.

          Councilmember Sawyer asked when this was platted.

          Planning Director Chaffee replied that he would guess the preliminary was
          probably in about 2002 to 2003. He stated it has been final platted over a period
          of time.
PAGE 17                    CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                            OCTOBER 27, 2008

          Councilmember Sawyer stated he was on the Planning Commission in 1996 until
          around 2000. He asked if the Planning Commission at that time, and thinks it
          moved forward to the Council and does not remember what they called it, but
          they were having difficulty with developers giving them green space, but it was
          the creek. He stated everyone thought they were really nice because they were
          getting all this green space, but after they went out there and checked things out
          they realized it was the creek.

          Councilmember Sawyer stated some type of change was made that added some
          amenities. He stated that he thinks they always had a plan that the developer had
          to submit that had it drawn on there. He stated when he was on the Planning
          Commission, and maybe he was naïve and obviously so, he thought that was what
          they were going to do and it looked good to him and was something he could live

          Councilmember Sawyer stated now they are telling him that amenities are there,
          but really the developer can pretty much do whatever they want. He stated he did
          not understand it to be that way.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated at the time, they inserted some verbiage that said
          if a developer proposes to donate land to the City for a city park, for the City to
          even consider it, it had to be something useable or something that they wanted.
          He stated they could not just come in and try to give the City something for the
          sake of giving them something hoping that they would get a reduction in their
          park fees or possibly be excluded from the excise tax. He stated they made sure
          the land was something the City could really use and met the needs of the City.
          He stated that was the modification that was made at that time.

          Councilmember Scott asked if a developer wants to trade out an amenity, who
          then in the City has the final approval.

          Planning Director Chaffee replied it would come to staff first and they would look
          at it and if it was something substantial, the Planning Commission would review it
          and make their final recommendation.

          Councilmember Sawyer asked if the Planning Commission goes back and talks to
          the citizens who are already living there.

          Planning Director Chaffee stated the Planning Commission always suggests they
          do that – certainly.

          Councilmember Sawyer asked if the City sends out notices.

          Planning Director Chaffee answered no, because the City does not get involved in
          the developer‟s and the homes association‟s affairs.
PAGE 18                        CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                          OCTOBER 27, 2008


      2008, IN THE AMOUNT OF $2,193,004.58.

      Councilmember Scott, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to approve the
      semi-monthly claim for October 27, 2008, in the amount of $2,193,004.58.

      Councilmember Straub stated he is going to vote NO on this again because of the travel
      expenses. He stated everyone keeps talking about how tight the City‟s budget is and how
      this is a year where they are cutting back. He stated he would like to ask the Council
      people if they do go on trips and learn things, that they actually come back and share it
      with the other councilmembers because there are several councilmembers going on these
      trips. He stated if they actually learn something, they could come back and share those
      things with the people who do not go on these trips.

      Councilmember Straub stated he would also like to request that they actually have
      someone look at their expenses and do some type of managerial audit or something to
      find out where they can maybe shave some monies from the expenses, because everyone
      knows the budget is getting tighter and tighter. He stated in looking at these expense
      reports, he does not see where the Council has cut back a lot. He stated maybe they could
      have someone who is a non-City employee tell them they need to cut X, Y, and Z to help
      the City save some money so they do not get in a bind and have to raise taxes again next

      Councilmember Kuhn stated she guesses it would be very apropos that Councilmember
      Straub again was voting NO on the budget based on travel when she actually had
      prepared something in regards to Council travel.

      Therefore the motion read:

      Councilmember Scott, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to approve the
      semi-monthly claim for October 27, 2008, in the amount of $2,193,004.58. The motion
      carried 7-1, with Councilmembers Scott, Pflumm, Sawyer, Goode, Kuhn, Sandifer, and
      Distler voting aye and Councilmember Straub voting nay.


      a)     Recent Trip – Kansas League of Municipalities.

             Councilmember Kuhn stated that hopefully this report will make Councilmember
             Straub feel more comfortable with some of the expenditures made by the Council.
             She stated she recently had the opportunity to represent Shawnee, along with
             Assistant City Manager Charlesworth, at the Kansas League of Municipalities in
             Wichita, Kansas.
PAGE 19                     CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                            OCTOBER 27, 2008

          Councilmember Kuhn stated one thing they have talked about is the number of
          things they have to balance, how, and what they should be at in order to gain
          enough information and education to benefit the City and which were not, and
          whether or not they needed the remainder of the Council to make those decisions.
          She stated that she decided it would be important to bring back some of the things
          that she had heard at this conference, that they would as a city not have been able
          to avail themselves to. She stated the things she would have asked staff to look
          into offline and come back on are opportunities that they have coming from this.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated she had the opportunity and has been appointed and
          sits on the State‟s Legislative Policy Committee for the League of Kansas
          Municipalities. She stated the League State Legislative Program includes all the
          positions that are favorable to the City in dealing with the State‟s transportation,
          water and energy, home rules, public health, safety, municipal finance – all areas
          that cities would find interest in and hopefully be advocated by the municipal
          league. She stated that she had an opportunity to sit on that policy committee and
          help be involved in forming the policies that are now being sent to the State
          asking to advocate positions that will hopefully benefit the City of Shawnee as

          Councilmember Kuhn stated she also had an opportunity to attend a session while
          she was at the conference that dealt with recent changes in the Kansas Open
          Meetings Act. She stated she thinks it is very important that they, as
          councilmembers, are very familiar with those provisions of the law especially
          because these new changes do directly impact the City of Shawnee.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated at a number of meetings in the past, she has heard
          accusations regarding how things may have been outside what would have been
          legal and what would not have been legal. She stated she had an opportunity to
          really get a good grasp on how carefully they have been able to stay well within
          those laws and learn what exactly they should be doing.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated she would ask staff to put together some sort of a
          presentation for a future committee meeting that would help update all of the
          councilmembers on the Open Meetings Act. She asked that the presentation
          include those new changes.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated there were a couple other sessions that she thought
          was very relevant and interesting for the City of Shawnee. She stated one was for
          a Facilities Conservation Improvement Program which is something some of their
          neighboring cities have had the opportunities to take advantage of. She stated she
          has learned that the State has a number of pre-approved energy service companies
          that will help them inspect their public buildings, such as City Hall, the fire
          station, and the previous safety center where they had some discussion at the last
          meeting about needs. She stated it helps identify areas in which energy efficiency
PAGE 20                     CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                             OCTOBER 27, 2008

          can be improved, where the State has grants, and where public utilities have
          grants to help the cities become more energy efficient and greener outside of just
          basic programming.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated at times, some upfront do come with these programs
          but the KCC has found that these agencies they have used have experienced
          reductions to city costs between 15-35% for their utility bills. She stated having
          discussed the City‟s needs to watch their spending, she thinks looking at some
          areas where they can match or want to be green and their need to save money
          might be a real benefit, especially because at this meeting she learned that there is
          a way to begin this process with absolutely no cost to the City where they can find
          out if it is something that actually is a good match for them and one they would
          want to move forward on.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated she knows Assistant City Manager Charlesworth had
          a chance to attend a similar seminar and gained a lot of knowledge. She asked
          staff to use their sustainable committee, which already exists and have been
          working towards a number of green initiatives, to maybe gather more information
          on this and see if it might be something worth moving forward on.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated the last area she would like to mention, is something
          that she thinks is near and dear to her ward-mate - Recycling. She stated there
          was a great seminar she attended dealing with recycling start-up programs and
          changes in existing programs.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated the one seminar she was very interested in was
          specific to the City of El Dorado, Kansas. She restated that had she not had the
          chance to attend conference, she would have never met the Assistant Director of
          the El Dorado Kansas Public Works Department. She stated that she can not say
          they move in the same circles and certainly does not know where, outside of the
          Kansas League of Municipalities, they would have ever had a chance to sit down
          and converse about recycling programs.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated she had a great chance to gain some insight from this
          person as to what they did when they began something very similar to Shawnee‟s
          parks recycling program. She stated she got to hear about some of their
          challenges on getting people to participate. She stated she heard about great ways
          where they began in a small area and expanded throughout their entire city. She
          stated she heard about some of the benefits they had to the recycling containers
          they chose; the ones that did not work so well in the beginning and the ones that
          are working very well now and how they had a very significant increase not only
          in participation, but a significant decrease in the number of contaminated
          containers they had, which is something this city has talked about in trying to get
          their recycling program expanded in parks and what the right thing is to do and
          how they can best use the City‟s resources and funds they need to watch very
          carefully and getting the most bang for their buck.
PAGE 21                     CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                             OCTOBER 27, 2008

          Councilmember Kuhn sated she had a great conversation with this person from El
          Dorado and wanted to pass on this information to Parks and Recreation Director
          Holman first off and then obviously to the Parks and Recreation people who are
          working on Shawnee‟s recycling program.

          Councilmember Kuhn asked the staff to get in touch with this gentleman from El
          Dorado who had a couple other resources. She thinks they will find this
          information absolutely priceless where the City could actually save some lost
          dollars finding out from their mistakes in the beginning and what Shawnee could
          do better right up front. She has that gentleman‟s card and contact information
          and will provide it to Parks and Recreation Director Holman. Hopefully the City
          can gain some valuable information from those discussions.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated there were a number of other really great people that
          she got to meet at the conference. She stated she had some wonderful
          conversations in regards to codes enforcement, something which has been brought
          up in the past by Councilmember Sawyer. She stated that she talked quite a bit
          with a gentleman from Manhattan, Kansas, again someone she probably would
          never have gotten the opportunity to have great conversations with, about their
          rental inspection program.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated there is just far too much for her to be able to report
          on this evening. She stated in all honesty her giving a report on all those things, is
          probably nowhere as beneficial as her opportunity to have had that one-on-one
          exchange with them and that real interpersonal opportunity to give feedback to
          each other and gain from those encounters.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated she agrees with Councilmember Straub on one thing
          that they have not probably done, which is talking enough about these types of
          things in Council meetings; talked about the places they have been to and maybe
          asking staff from those events online so they can show the public, not just offline
          where she tries to let the staff know these things she has learned.

          Councilmember Kuhn stated that she knows Councilmember Pflumm brought
          back from one conference a great concept that he had asked staff to look into as
          well with regard to an opportunity for the City to sell online some equipment or
          parts from automobiles where they may have been getting less for than they could
          have gotten. She stated she will give Councilmember Straub kudos for reminding
          them that sometimes maybe they need to make a bigger deal in public about all
          the really amazing things that they bring back from these trips. She just wanted to
          take the chance to let him know and also ask staff to follow up on some of the
          things she was able to be exposed to in Wichita.

          Councilmember Pflumm thanked Councilmember Kuhn for the update.
PAGE 22                         CITY COUNCIL MINUTES                               OCTOBER 27, 2008

              Councilmember Straub thanked Councilmember Kuhn for her great work. He
              stated this is exactly what he is talking about, in that there are a lot of things going
              on that the Council is doing that is not being shared with everyone, so he would
              be very happy to learn from them and would be very happy to learn more about
              the recycling to see if they can get that going further. He stated if there is any
              information Councilmember Kuhn could share with him, he would love to
              continue that effort and thinks they need to move forward with recycling
              throughout the City.

              Councilmember Kuhn stated she would be more than happy to give
              Councilmember Straub the name of the gentleman she spoke with, but thinks the
              best use of her time is to recognize that she does not have a great expertise in that
              field and is probably doing the best job she can by giving that information to the
              people who are working on the project and ask them to gather as much
              information as they can.

              Councilmember Kuhn stated she knows in the limited amount of time she spent
              with this person she did not ask enough questions and did not have enough
              opportunity. She stated rather than giving information that she does not feel
              particularly qualified to give, she would rather wait and see what the staff can
              bring back to her with ideas when they can ask some more in depth, educated
              questions that she had any ability to ask. She only hopes that by her being there
              and being exposed to them, is enough to possibly give the staff the chance to
              bring that forward.

              Councilmember Straub stated he was really asking Councilmember Kuhn if she
              had any documentation. He does not know of the classes she attended and if they
              gave her any information or data.

              Councilmember Sawyer stated he believes a recycling update is coming up at the
              Finance and Administration Committee meeting in December, so staff is already
              gathering information.


Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Straub, moved to adjourn. The motion
carried 7-0, and the meeting adjourned at 8:53 p.m.

Minutes prepared by: Cindy Terrell, Recording Secretary


Vicki Charlesworth, City Clerk

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