TBG5 Finance Plenary Meeting
September 24th– 28th 2007 in Stockholm
Country / Organisation Representatives Bank Representatives
France Alain Gillard/Stella Petiot
Denmark Stig Korsgaard
Finland Tapani Turunen/Llola Pirjo
Austria Hendrik Muus
USA Stephen Ranzini
Switzerland Walter Hoffman
SWIFT David Dobbing/Nicola Boothby
Sweden Rolf Bohman
Italy Michela Tocci
Germany Bettina Schonfeld
Netherlands Jaap Baker/Peter Potgieser
UK James Whittle
Taiwan Shih Chin Huang/May Chen
France Alain Gillard/Stella Petiot
Denmark Stig Korsgaard
TWIST Peter Guldentops
1. TBG5 Opening and Administration
a. Administrative items
Stig welcomed all to the meeting.
b. Minutes (Dublin)
Approved without comment.
c. Approval of draft Agenda
Discussion item on the proposed XML awareness seminar added.
2. Developments since Dublin in March
i. Status of membership, incl. increasing (active) participation
Main developments revolve around the e-Invoicing project. Mark enquired
about increasing the membership of TBG5. Stig clarified that he thought
greater participation would be driven by active projects attracting
participants, rather than recruitment.
ii. Action points
ACTION: Stig will ensure that the TBG5 documents align with the overall
procedures at CEFACT by the end of the year and then circulate to the
group for input and comment. – Pending FMG decisions.
ACTION: TBG5 will submit an issue paper to the RMG highlighting the MoU
that exists between TC68, UN/CEFACT and SWIFT but citing the increasing
risk that UN/CEFACT domains are on the verge of developing their own
financial components. This will be submitted to the chairs of the RMG and
SWIFT Standards to have a further discussion in advance of the next RMG
meeting in May 2007. – Stig clarified that the MoU text needs to be up-
dated, input from TBG5 welcomed, otherwise Stig and James would deal
with at the TC68 plenary in November.
ACTION: Carlo to send to TBG5 for the interest of CRG as soon as possible.
– Open, ISTH MIG will be circulated when available. Mark clarified that the
document is still be finalised. Stig stated that in terms of ISO20022 this
document would become a MUG (Message User Guide). It is likely this will
be published under ISO20022 by year-end. There was a discussion about
alignment between national implementation guides under SEPA. It was
reported by one member that SWIFT have work underway to assess
national user guides with an aim to harmonise them, although there was a
lack of clarity over the exact mandate and scope of this group.
ACTION: David to provide further information on the work of SWIFT
Standards related to SEPA implementation guides, and indeed any
extension of the current guides into the corporate to bank domain. It would
also be useful to have information on the SCORE early adopters work.
ACTION: Stig will follow up on alignment of terms and definitions with the
chair of TBG14. – Closed.
ACTION: Arthur will find out from SWIFT the status of their work on a
document header – Closed.
ACTION: Stig to circulate the revised ToR. – Open.
ACTION: Stig to draft a proposal on reporting principles for us by TBG5
reps in other groups. – Open.
ACTION: Hendrik to check with Alain Dechamps if the CEN site can host
the current TBG5 IBAN checker. – Open to be taken as part of agenda.
ACTION: Stig will review web site content. – Closed.
ACTION: Stephen to report on developments in his role as TBG5 liaison to
certain ISO security related work. – Open to be taken as part of agenda.
ACTION: Sue Probert will provide an official note to TBG5 as to their
expected requirements. – Open to be taken as part of agenda.
ACTION: Stig and Pascal will work on co-ordination between TBG5 and
CRG. - Closed
ACTION: SWIFT will table the need to establish a business document
header to the next RMG for cross SEG piece of work. – Closed.
ACTION: Stig, James, Carlo, Mark to work on developing a paper for the
RMG in May on this issue. – Closed.
3. TBG5 internal items – Stig/All
a. Revision of TBG5 procedures according to R.650 rev.4 – input
Procedures need to be updated, pending resources of the chair.
b. TBG5 internal structure – revised ToR
c. TBG5 Representation in other groups – reporting principles
No update necessary.
d. TBG5 Web site
Stig reported that the Corporate Reference Group (CRG) is in the process of
migrating to the new TBG5 website hosted by CEN. The general TBG5 website, as
part of the CEN structure for TBG, will become the main website for the group. The
old website will remain due to dependencies concerning the IBAN checker.
ACTION: Stig to check the material on Wikepedia for TBG5.
4. Reports from TBG5 TF/Subgroups
Not discussed, as no CRG representative was present. ACTION: Pascal to provide
updated information on CRG activities.
5. Making the Terms of Reference operational
a. TBG5 projects on e-invoicing, remittance information, payments and other related
i. Status on C2B Payments submission to TBG17
Stig reported that the submission is very close to being fully harmonised.
It is estimated that by beginning 2008 the harmonisation would be
complete. The next step would be to consider the implications on the
ISO20022 repository to maintain alignment with CEFACT.
ii. Status on E-invoice project
First meeting had been held to consider data requirements coming from
TSU, Invoice Finance and the payment initiation areas. The plan being to
consolidate the core financial data and to co-ordinate this with TBG1 as
the base input to the e-Invoice ISO20022 submission. Eventually, as the
EC project advances, it is anticipated that this will drive the wider, more
detailed, submission into ISO20022. TBG5 is also working closely with the
ISO20022 Trade SEG on this work. David mentioned that TBG1 is re-
working the CII, and that this should be considered. Stig clarified that he
and James were working with TBG1 to ensure alignment. Co-operation
was progressing well.
6. XML Awareness event
Mark clarified that the event will be held in January and hosted by HSBC, but that the event
will be a TBG5 activity not a bank orientated event. The objective of the event would be to
educate and promote to corporate customers the value of the ISO20022 standard. Large,
multi-bank, corporate customers are to be targeted, as it is these entities that have to deal
with cost and complexity in managing their various bank relationships. It is expected that
Oracle, SWIFT, SAP and Microsoft will be present to represent the vendor proposition.
Invitations will be targeted to ensure the correct balance at the event. ACTION: Stig and
Mark to produce invitations and list of possible attendees.
7. Interactions/Collaboration with other groups – updates status reports
a. Cooperation with EACT - Status on EACT activities – MoU
EACT were not present so no direct update was made. Stig mentioned the EACT
draft white paper on SEPA stating that it is not the position of TBG5 to comment on
EPC organisational issues raised in the paper. But TBG5 would comment on the
items related to standards and common areas of interest between TBG5 and EACT.
Jaap asked if the corporate panel to be formed by EACT/TWIST should be
connected to TBG5. Stig suggested that a direct link is probably not necessary, but
that input on points of common interest would be useful. Stella asked how the
results of the panel would be fed to interested parties, or bodies such at TBG5? This
was less than clear, therefore Peter G was asked to follow this up with TWIST.
ACTION: Peter G to provide details from TWIST as to the governance of the
proposed corporate panel.
b. Other Corporate activities
c. ISO TC68 and RMG 20022
i. RMG in New York and Johannesburg
James provided an up-date on progress and explained that three sub-
groups had been formed at the last RMG meeting looking at; compliance
issues presented by FIX and SWIFT; document header issues; and the
MIG clarification issue. The MIG issue has been worked on at the RMG will
be asked to approve a document which sets out the various levels of
artefacts to be produced in support of the ISO20022 messages. The key
issues are that the MUG (Message User Guide) is not equivalent to a MIG
and will not supplant the need for more detailed implementation guides.
The work on document headers has been delayed, and the work on
compliance is likely to be progressed at TC68 at the end of the year.
Secretaries note – James has subsequently volunteered to lead the work
on compliance at the RMG.
Rolf enquired whether the e-Invoicing submission to ISO20022 would be
processed by the payments SEG. It was confirmed that a joint Evaluation
Group would be formed between both the Payments and Trade SEG, with
the Trade SEG taking the lead.
ii. SEG Reports
Jaap provided an update on developments at the Payments SEG.
2. Trade Services
Michela gave a presentation on progress in the trade SEG
concerning the invoice financing submission from ACBI.
iii. Status TC68 and MoU with TBG5
David provided an update on SWIFT Standards activities. It was noted that TSU
phase 2 is due to be submitted to ISO20022 by Nov 2007. ACTION: David to send
details of the SIBOS issues magazine article concerning ISO20022 to TBG5.
The PMPG (Payment Market Practice Group) was also mentioned and James
expressed concerns that the governance of the group is still unclear. This was an
item SWIFT had been asked to clarify after the last meeting of TBG5, so David was
requested to circulate information on this. ACTION: David will provide details on
the governance and ToR for the PMPG.
8. CEFACT Forum reports and TBG5 interactions
a. Other TBG Groups and cross-domain projects
i. TBG1 and Cross Industry Invoices/REMADV – TBG5 participation
ii. TBG2 – Requirements from UNedocs
Requirements from TBG2 are still not clear; Stig will continue to liaise with
b. TBG StC and TBG issues
Nothing significant to report.
c. Interactions with the FMG and other Forum Permanent Groups
Progressing well, nothing significant to report.
9. Security issues
a. Update on the Security Project under TBG6
Stephen reported that work on the security project at TBG6 had made a promising
start, although there had not appeared to have been that much progress recently.
Stephen will keep members informed.
Stephen also reported that ITU is working to establish a solution for federated
identity management. A white paper is expected soon and Stephen will circulate to
the group for information when it becomes available. ACTION: Stephen to circulate
the ITU white paper on federated identity management when it becomes available.
10. Summary of the meeting
b. Interim work and action items
Nothing to report.
c. Next meetings
Spring (13th March) Zurich (backup London or Brussels). To be confirmed by Stig.
Thursday 27th of September:
Joint management meeting with TBG1 on e-Invoice, Remittance Advice
Stig provided background to the TBG5 e-Invoicing project explaining that the banks have a number
of projects connected to various trade documents, in particular invoices. It was also explained that
projects under the EC also have meant that the banks have, through necessity, needed to develop
particular trade related documents in ISO20022. The hope is that TBG5 leading this work in
ISO20022 can maintain alignment with UN/CEFACT and in particular the Cross Industry Invoice.
TBG5 have now combined the data requirements coming from and used by the financial industry
and also data related to the trade (invoice) data.
TBG5 would also be happy to provide expertise to work with TBG1 on inputting SME requirements
coming from experience of vendor solutions. ACTION: Stig will provide TBG1 with the contact
details for this individual.
TBG1 are working to refine the order to pay processes in co-operation with UBL. The expectation
being that these can be completed by the end of the year. It is vital to ensure work proceeds at
pace through CEFACT on this to meet the timeline from activities related to TBG1, UBL and TBG5.
Overall is expected that this work needs to deliver by no later than the end of 2008.
11.00-12.30 Joint session with TBG2 on UNedocs
It was confirmed that TBG5 would be willing to work on developing the financial components of the
TBG2 project, but that his would not commence until TBG2 very precisely presented their
requirements to enable TBG5 to correlate them against the financial repository under ISO20022.