Lefis WG3 Minutes by gabyion


									Lefis WG3 Continuing Education
(Informal) Minutes of Malta Meeting held on Saturday 8 April 2006

Participating Institution                   Member Present
Belgium – University of Namur               Robert Queck (RQ)

Bulgaria – Center for the law of            George Dimitrov (GD)
Information and Communication
Technologies (CLICT)

Czech Republic – Tomas Bata                 Vladimir Vrecion (VV)
University, Zlin

Italy – Institute of Legal Information      Maria Angela Biasiotti (MAB)
Theory and Techniques (ITTIG),              Roberta Nannucci (RN)

Lithuania – Mykolas Romeris University,     Rimantas Petrauskas (RP)

Malta – University of Malta                 Joseph Cannataci (JAC)
                                            Mireille Caruana (MMC)
                                            Jeanne Pia Mifsud Bonnici
                                            Stephanie Psaila
The Netherlands – Erasmus University        Pieter Kleve (PK)

Poland – Nicholas Copernicus                Piotr Chrcozonowicz (PC)
University, Torun

Spain – FASE, Madrid                        Luis Miguel Muñoz (LMM) (Chairman)
University of Zaragoza                      Pilar Lasala (PL)
                                            Fernando Galindo (FG)

Turkey – FMV ISIK University                Selahattin Kuru (SK)

United Kingdom - University of Warwick Abdul Paliwala (AP)

1. The meeting started with a short introduction by Luis Miguel Muñoz, Chairman of
   WG3. Since this was the first meeting of WG3, each member gave a brief
   introduction of him/herself.

2. Fernando Galindo was invited by the Chairman to present “The Bologna Process
   and the Tuning project: Educational Structures in Europe”. (Presentation available
   at http://www.lefis.org/meetings/workgroup/3/malta_2006/presentaciones/01.ppt)

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                           1
2.1 The Bologna Process
The Bologna Process started in 1998. Meetings are held every two years. The last was
held in Bergen and next in London. Education ministers, members of different
governments and from higher education establishments participate in the discussions.

The main objective of the Bologna process is European higher education reform. It
promotes a shift from the teaching of knowledge per se to thinking of teaching and
learning in terms of professional needs. Thinking of professional needs is different
from what universities are usually used to. There is a shift from teaching of
knowledge to professional training.

The Bologna Process strives towards obtaining common degrees, common titles but
more importantly common content following the European Credit Transfer System
(ECTS) (1 credit = 26-30 hours of effort). The introduction is dependent on individual
national preferences.

The Bologna Process is mostly focused on undergraduate and graduate education and
not on continuing education.

Continuing Education
There is no European position on continuing education (even if it is included in the
formal aims of the Bologna process). Advances in continuing education are scarce in
Europe with the exception of the UK where it is more prevalent.

Galindo defined Continuing education as “further education for professionals” e.g. the
experience of Zaragoza in training of Latin American judges and professionals.

There is a need to create competence templates for continuing education and LEFIS
can have a significant role in this.

2.2 The Tuning Project
The Tuning Project was initially a Socrates Thematic Network (like LEFIS). It is the
methodological application of the Bologna Process. Deusto University and
Groningen University started the project of creating templates for a number of subject
areas. This has been followed up in 10 subjects (excluding law) e.g. business, history,
physics, European studies.

„Tuning‟ roughly means harmonization. The main objectives of the project are to
identify and harmonise competences, identify learning outcomes and to get
stakeholders on every subject together.

The difficulty in law is mainly how to define competences and identify occupations
that can be followed after studies.

The results obtained following the Tuning templates have been recognized by EU as a
standard for the Bologna process.

LEFIS is a Socrates thematic network since 2003-2004. It is a Juridical Thematic
Network. Funding for LEFIS 1 and 2 has been approved. We can apply for funding

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                              2
for LEFIS 3. This will involve a call for the creation of a consortium (where not all
members will be partners). From 20 Socrates Networks only LEFIS is related to law.

LEFIS must follow the Tuning methodology. The ELFA – European Law Faculties
Association – is also involved in using Tuning for legal education. It is responsible for
forming a template for law. It is very difficult to make a template for law since it is
difficult to make a distinction between knowledge and professional practice. Galindo
has been in contact with Julian Lomby (ELFA representative for Tuning). (But
ELFA‟s objectives are not clear.)

2.4 Templates
What is a template? – It is a model. LEFIS will create a LEFIS template, a LEFIS
model for legal education in the information society.

2.5 Discussion
- Applicability of ECTS to Continuing Education
RQ pointed out that the ECTS system is not directly applicable for Continuing
Education since no degree is awarded at the end of Continuing Education.

JAC added that the Tuning template (in its current form) is not adequate for
Continuing Education as its focus is for degrees and not for non-degree awarding
education. Some ECTS modules offered at postgraduate or graduate level can be
offered as Continuing Education but the ECTS system on its own is inadequate for
Continuing Education needs.

PK noted that in The Netherlands lawyers have to follow compulsory continuing
education. Lawyers need to follow 16 study points per year, where each study point is
the equivalent of 40 hours. This system can be easily converted to the ECTS system.

AP said that there should be an attempt to marry both systems (i.e. both graduate
education and continuing education), using graduate education to apply also to
continuing education.

RQ noted that therecould be a link between masters degrees and continuing education.
One could use courses of Continuing Education in the masters degree. However, at
this moment in time hours of Continuing Education do not yet lead to a graduate
degree per se. Similar to The Netherlands, there appears to be an obligation for
Belgium lawyers to obtain yearly study points.

RP pointed out that the ECTS system is a scale for work. It is a way how to measure
the study units between the different countries. Since it is known in all countries one
can use it as a measuring tape also for Continuing Education.

- Defining ‘Continuing Education’
AP said that it is important to think of what the WG understands with the term
„continuing education‟? Is WG speaking only of education for professional lawyers?
Or does it also include education of people who have studied law but do not work as
professional lawyers? What is the working definition?

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                                 3
JAC agreed that a target audience (of continuing education) must be identified. The
WG needs to agree on a definition of „Continuing Education‟. Is it understood as
continuing professional education or continuing personal education? The way forward
could be by starting to building a definition and identifying a target audience and then
discuss it.

RQ noted that JuriTIC, the ongoing education programme offered by the Research
Center for Computers and Law (CRID) of the University of Namur does not foresee
an examination at the end of continuing education. Credits are awarded mostly for
presence and not after an assessment. But obviously "ongoing education" is a very
broad concept and may be considered as gathering a very large amount of teaching

GD confirmed the need for a definition. He also noted that entrance to the Bar is only
allowed following an exam, often a state exam.

PK noted that proposing the imposition of examinations or assessment for continuing
education is beyond what LEFIS should be thinking about.

RQ added that if one asks for/proposes an exam then one must be prepared to give
something in return.

MAB noted that there is no continuing education requirement for lawyers in Italy.
However, state employees are required to attending (continuing education) courses
with an evaluation. This evaluation can influence the possibility of promotion to the
next level in the employment scale.

PC noted that there is an attempt in Poland to introduce continuing education for
prosecutors, judges and defence lawyers and possibly this would include a
requirement for assessment.

RP reminded the group that LEFIS is a multidisciplinary group and not just another
lawyer group. The target audience, therefore, should not only be lawyers but also the
other groups e.g. politicians, computer science people. The group needs to be forward
looking, thinking of new questions and new targets.

FG noted that there are three work groups in LEFIS dedicated to education: graduate,
postgraduate, continuing education. This is only a continuing education WG and it
should concentrate only on continuing education.

Action Points

Based on the above discussions, the following points need further action:
   - building of a working definition of „continuing education‟
   - identification of target audience(s) of continuing education
   - link between graduate education and continuing education
   - identification of a system to measure continuing education.

3. Fernando Galindo was invited by the Chairman to present “The significance of the
   Tuning project for „The LEFIS model‟: Main Elements and features of a structure

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                                4
    for Continuing Education in computer and law studies.” (Presentation available at

3.1 The LEFIS Model
FG pointed out that the aim is to fill in the Tuning Template for LEFIS. He then went
through each section of the Tuning Template giving suggestions on how this can be
filled in.

a. The subject area: Legal Framework for the Information Society
For the description (max 2000 characters) of the subject area FG suggested that the
text used to describe LEFIS in the application for funding can be used as initial
reference or, best, model.

The subject area includes the following subjects: law and policy, business and
management and information and communication technologies and relations with

RQ noted that the „subject area‟ refers to the areas of teaching and objects of teaching
and he wonders therefore whether an introduction to LEFIS would be appropriate at
this place.

FG remarked that his is only a suggestion and that his suggestion includes both
content and professional needs (i.e. the objectives of teaching).

RP noted that Tuning is directed towards one subject area at a time and is not

FG drew the attention to European Studies. This can be taken as a model for a
multidisciplinary study area.

JAC suggested that since the phrase „computers and law‟ has become to some extent a
term of art and there is already some extent of harmonization, the phrase should be
used to describe the subject area.

b. Degrees profiles in the subject area
FG suggests that this should include First cycle, Second cycle, third cycle and
continuing education as degree profiles.

RQ pointed out that strictly speaking continuing education should not be included
under a degree profiles rubric. Continuing education is a broad concept. In Namur, for
example, continuing education besides being a separate type of education, also
includes programmes which lead to a first or second degree (e.g. by courses offered to
adults during evenings and weekends). It is important to clarify whether the WG is
looking at continuing education as separate from first and second cycle degrees or as
part of them or both.

FG noted that there are different kinds of first cycle degrees, such as graduate in law,
graduate in business & management, in ICTs and operators in Law and Information
technology. In the Oslo WG (on graduate education), the proposal of Bologna will be
discussed. This is one model but we can discuss other models.

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                                  5
Second cycle degrees include masters in computer and law; masters in e-government;
theory and techniques of legislation in e-governance.

Third cycle degrees include doctorates in Computers and Law and in Legal

Continuing education refers to professional updating.

RQ noted that first cycle degrees also include a general degree in law.

FG reminded the WG that first cycle degrees will be discussed in Oslo; second cycle
degrees in Rotterdam and then discussed at the plenary session in Beja in Portugal.

The objectives of each degree offered together with the possible occupations that
participants can carry out after the degree is awarded will be described in the
template. In filling in the draft of this template, FG was inspired by other templates
found in Spain (including one for engineering).

c. Role of subject area in other degree programmes
FG noted that a number of programmes need to be identified in this section. Some
examples are graduates in law with mention in computers and law (30 ECTS);
graduates in business and management with mention in computers and law: (30
ECTS); graduates in ICTs with mention in Computers and law (30 ECTS).

PK remarked that such a presentation of degrees was not clear enough. It was
important to add levels.

SK asked for a clarification on the 30 ECTS listed in the description.

RQ noted that programme in economics can be considered as separate from a
programme in business and management)

d. Learning outcomes and competences-level cycle descriptors
Here FG referred to the results of the questionnaire set by LEFIS. He reported that
there were no additional results since the Firenze meeting. From the results one can
make some suggestions on the learning outcomes and competences.

For undergraduate studies (based on 10 answers from teachers in law and policy area)
the key subject competences are:
    - application of legal texts in context
    - information technology law
    - accessing legal texts
    - interpretation of legal texts in context
    - presenting information visually and orally

For undergraduate studies (based on 13 answers from teachers in law and policy area)
the key subject competences are:
    - Information Technology law
    - The characteristics of the Information Society

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                                6
    -   Understanding of professional ICT practice and business structure
    -   Interpretation of legal texts in context
    -   Application of legal texts in context

These results can be a starting point to filling up the template.

RQ asked whether these competences are the result of the education or a pre-requisite
to follow the education.

FG clarified that these are competences achieved after learning.

RP noted that some of the competences mentioned can also be a pre-requisite (e.g. the
graduate competences as pre-requisite for postgraduate education) and also results
after learning.

FG pointed out that only 2 questionnaires were returned on continuing education and
the key subject competencies indicated were:
    - The characteristics of the information society
    - Understanding of electronic signature
    - Information technology law
    - Accessing legal texts
    - Producing written reports.

RQ reminded the group that actually the expectation was that each member fills in
only one of the questionnaires even if actually members may have different qualities
(e. g. they teach in graduate and undergraduate programmes) and could therefore
filling in more than one of the questionnaires.

e. Workload and ECTS
FG made some suggestions (see presentation) of the workload and ECTS required for
each cycle.

f. Learning, teaching & Assessment
The description cannot exceed 4000 characters. Perhaps give three examples of best
practice in learning, teaching & assessment to achieve competences relevant to the
subject area. All participants in all groups should contribute and could be included
here (and not only members in the specific WGs).

g. Quality Enhancement
Two auditors are being suggested here: the University of Pisa as the Tuning Auditor
and the University of Edinburgh as an external auditor. They are the accepted auditors
by the European Union for LEFIS as Socrates Thematic Network

The draft filled-in template will be discussed in plenary session in October 2006.

Some inspiration can be drawn from the draft templates for law and policy.

JAC suggested that the WG discussed how to proceed.

The discussion was postponed to a later item on the agenda – planning.

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                              7
4. The Chairman invited the representative of each institution to present their
   experiences with continuing education with the aim of using the presentations in
   the filling in of the template.

4.1 Experiences from Spain
Fernando Galindo explained that he has been involved in continuing education
courses for civil servants, judges, lawyers and judges of Spain and Latin America
since 1984. There are no rules for compulsory continuing education in Spain but
there is a code of practice for the use of ICT in the Courts (Spain) and since 26th
February 2003 this code has binding effect. This kind of rules requires to teach
continuing education for Judges and also for all participants in the Administration of

Luis Miguel Muñoz reported that he is involved in a project called INNO-Start.
(Presentation available at
http://www.lefis.org/meetings/workgroup/3/malta_2006/presentaciones/03.ppt) This
relates to e-commerce & European Legislation course of studies. This is an online
system using a multimedia platform. The idea behind this project is that any person
knowing English who wants to know more on e-commerce and related directives can
use this system. It can be accessed directly through the LEFIS website.

FG added that the LEFIS website in being developed in stages including the building
of a data base and access to different developments. In future, there will be a public
part and private part of the site. The private part will be accessible by the use of public

The publication of a book by the Work Group is also planned. Each member will get a
copy of the book.

4.2 ‘Continuing & Post-graduate education in Computers & Law’ – presented by
Joseph A. Cannataci (Presentation available at

The presentation examined what Tuning set out to achieve and how these aims fit in
with Computers & Law and continuing education. There is some consensus on the
description of the subject area. There is already some history to harmonization on
subject area (e.g. Council of Europe recommendations (in 1980 and 1992)). These
recommendations set some standards on subject area and teaching. They were written
by people involved in the process for a long time. LEFIS can take advantage of
experience from recommendation.

Though parts of the Tuning template can be used for continuing education, the
template was not designed for continuing education. It is often difficult to separate
continuing education from post-graduate education.

JAC made 9 proposals –
- P1 – description of subject area: as much as possible one should adopt the text of
   the recommendation with some amendment especially to include developments
   since 1992, e.g. Internet law, wireless telecoms etc.

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                                 8
-   P2 – map of professions – the pedagogical objectives are to some extent similar to
    those of post-grad education; and also updating practitioners. There is a need to
    identify target audiences which are multiple. Tuning template geared too much too
    1-3 cycle. There is a need to identify the definition of continuing education.

AP pointed out that there is a blurring of boundaries between professionals and users.
Often the general public is ignored from the formulation of continuing education.

RQ noted that part of the target audience includes non-lawyers, citizen groups and
representatives of user groups and NGOs.

JAC added that the backgrounds of the target audiences are varied. The definition of
continuing education is important, as education of users can also be classified as
continuing awareness rather than education.

Continuing education is/can be: -
- rarely full time
- delivered in short sharp bursts
- often part-time and at times complemented by distance learning
- up-dating of previously learned materials
- modularity – continuing education in digestible chunks!
- Stand-alone subjects

-   P3 – complementarity and modularity; the susceptibility of the subject matter to
    be broken down makes it ideal for continuing education (especially when thinking
    of continuing education in digestible chunks)
-   P4 – periodic review – while there is no mention of periodic review in the Tuning
    template, the subject area needs to be updated to keep in line. Review every 5-10
    years is suggested.
-   P5 - link post-graduate and continuing education. Very little legal education is not
    provided by law schools. Replication of work and human resources is
    unnecessary. From resource management best-qualified teaching delivered
    simultaneously at different levels of education should be encouraged. The
    University of Malta has some experience in harmonising the education a different
    levels with for example Erasmus students, exchange & visiting professors; visiting
    judges. These often follow substantive law and computers courses without
    difficulty. The subject lends itself to harmonization e.g. data protection directive
    course is the same in any place in the EU.
-   P6 - trans-border continuing education – this can be harmonized. It can be
    beneficial from a resource management perspective and can be important e.g. in
    cybercrime getting judges from different jurisdiction together can then help in the
    application of law in the actual cases.
-   P7 - modularity, workload & ECTS – continuing education WG should
    collaborate with post graduate WG.
-   P8 – continuing education and mobility – One needs to consider the needs of
    continuing education to help in mobility of lawyers.
-   P9 – accreditation of prior learning – A clear definition of modules in continuing
    education would facilitate the accreditation of prior learning.

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                                9
-   There is a need for a European policy on continuing education and further a need
    for a Europe-wide standard for continuing education for members of the legal

RQ noted. on mobility: while the relevance of across border studies is important at a
post grad level it is less so for continuing education. In continuing education local
content is particularly relevant. There can also be a problem of output – what can the
professionals do with it.

GD commented that the definition „computers and law‟ is not precise. Information
communication technology law is a better term. Regarding proposal 5 while it is
possible to have the same modules for post graduate and continuing education level,
at times there might be a need for more in- depth focus for continuing education.

JAC remarked that the term „computers and law‟ is now a term of art. ICT can also be
a useful term. The term can be agreed upon.

LMM noted that continuing education is not necessarily only for professions but can
also be intended for other persons coming from other backgrounds.

FG added that indeed this diversity is one of the important elements and a richness of

MAB noted that it is important not to forget the digitalization of juridical processes
aspect in the definition of the subject area. Legal informatics should also be taken into
consideration. Furthermore, one should remember that there are other operators with
law and ICT professionals (and operators of the information society).

RQ pointed out that a large/wide classification can be used to include both legal
informatics and computer law.

4.3 Experiences from Italy – ‘ Tuning and Continuing Education in ITTIG’s
Activities’ presented by Roberta Nannucci (Presentation available at

ITTIG is an example of a non-university institution offering continuing education.
ITTIG organise two courses for officials of municipalities: a. in legal informatics and
b. an XML course. The presentation included an attempt at describing these two
courses in terms of the Tuning template

- Tuning template for Legal Informatics
Subject area – „tools and search strategies for accessing on-line legal information such
as legislation (national and local), case-law and doctrine‟
The degree profiles – law, political science, engineering, humanities and different
departments in the municipalities
Objectives – the course has three objectives: (a) to increase knowledge of legal
information resources; (b) increase searching capabilities, and (c) increase the ability
to access the information.
Work load – intensive courses (3-5 full-time days); depending on points needed for
career advancement.

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                              10
Learning – ICT facilities;
Teaching – blended type mixing traditional and online;
Assessment – multiple choice questionnaires
Quality enhancement – improvement of ICT facilities rarely adequate; e-learning
tools not really used; evaluation of personnel updating needs; detailed programming
of these needs

- Tuning template for XML standards courses
These courses have been carried out for about 5 years. They are offered to public
administration personnel involved in using XML.
Subject area – general concepts of XML and practical use
Degree profiles - similar to the earlier one
Learning outcomes – application of standards in their work
Workload – small classes (12) persons in intensive courses of 2-4 days; e-learning
tool purposely built;
Learning and teaching – certificate of attendance; final evaluation and specific
satisfaction questionnaires
These courses can be seen as potential models.

RQ asked for more information about the multiple choice exam.

RN clarified that the results are sometimes used for promotion purposes.

4.4 Experience in Poland – ‘Continuing Education of Criminal Justice Practitioners:
Experience in enforcing criminal cyberlaw’ presented by Piotr Chrcozonowicz (Full
text available at

A number of training programmes for criminal justice personnel are being planned.
These programmes are recognised under the Council of Europe Recommendation No.
R(95) 13. Furthermore, the EU commissioned RAND to develop of a Legal handbook
of Legal Procedures of Computer and Network Misuse in EU countries – 2nd edition is
now available.

The target group for the training programmes are prosecutors and judges from all over
Poland. It involves basic training in ICT to identify crimes four modules of study.
Two levels of training programmes are proposed: basic and advanced.

There are a number of partners involved in the training programmes.

This is an actual programme but parts of it are still being developed. It is also offered
to students but only three wanted to attend the courses in undergraduate level and only
15 at post-graduate level. It will be probably be fully in place by next year (especially
for Polish Judicial Reforms and training of judges).

   Experience in Lithuania –‘ Modularity of Legal Studies’ presented by Rimantas
There are few levels of continuing education at his university, mostly at
undergraduate level. Courses at post-graduate level are not completely modular yet.

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                             11
25 courses of one credit each are offered to high and middle level civil servants. But
in practice only middle level civil servants followed the courses. 6 courses were
related to information society. They were held by workshops and a certificate was
awarded at the end. In 2004-2005 during the computerization of courts some courses
were offered for judges and their secretaries. All secretaries followed these courses.
However it is difficult to estimate the number of people wanting to follow the courses
in future.

It is important to identify the level of continuing education the WG is speaking about.
While it is important to agree on the concept of modularity, the experience of
Lithuania is/may be different from that of The Netherlands or other countries.

FG remarked that one of the aims of the WG is to come up with common position.
One way of doing so is by going through what is already happening.

RP noted that continuing education and Tuning are far from each other. The market
relevance of the Tuning process is low. It can lead to a bureaucratic process.

LMM remarked that while building the training courses together, there can be a joint
effort to attract the attention of the market and consider the market relevance of the
training courses.

RQ commented that the common offer from LEFIS should take into account that
content is dependent on national needs and realities. E.g. as seen in Namur national
needs/perspectives in continuing education are what the participants expect. Tuning
should be used in general. LEFIS can be useful to identify target groups etc.

AP drew the attention to the word „tuning‟ – in an orchestra for example, all the
instruments that are there are used and a harmonised tone achieved from them
together. No instrument is changed or replaced, but each one tuned to complement the
sound of the rest of the orchestra. The same applies here. Different needs which are
very different between them will not benefit from harmonisation of content but from
harmonization between each.

RN added that an effort could be also made in continuing education even in a content
context by using a wider template than the Tuning template which is perhaps too
restrictive. It can be useful to give persons models to be used in future. A trial in
harmonisation is useful.

RQ noted that LEFIS could create a database with the different modules. These could
be used by all but only if and when one chooses to do so.

AP remarked that it is useless to try and ignore the complexity of the situation. The
group needs to use the complexity in an effective way.

4.6 Experiences in Bulgaria – presented by George Dimitrov
The Center for the law of Information and Communication Technologies (CLICT)
Centre in Bulgaria is associated with two universities. There is a need for
specialization of lawyers especially those working in the civil service, as in-house

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                               12
lawyers etc. ICT and law is not yet offered at university level, first courses start this

The Centre has been approached to give the courses (in continuing education) and not
the universities themselves. The university offers courses in legal informatics and
computer law but these are not offered to practicing lawyers. The Centre is trying to
find ways how to bring the knowledge to practicing lawyers.

He noted that the WG needs to agree on common understanding of the terms and
issues discussed. LEFIS should spend time on definitions on what is legal informatics,
ICT law etc. since a definition is necessary for harmonization between parties.
Furthermore, the same understanding should be shared with the undergraduate and
graduate WG.

4.7 Experiences in The Netherlands – presented by Pieter Kleve (Presentation
available at

A human resources problem should not be taken as a basis for Tuning. Though the
subject is the same, the way it is delivered and its content are different according to
the target audience. E.g. computer law for Dutch students – then want them to know
the Dutch context; computer law for foreigners – more general principles are

Continuing education should be seen as a form of education „permanente‟, including
upgrading of the professional field; bringing persons up to a common level of
knowledge and a process of updating. This is an ongoing process.

The target group is mainly advocates/lawyers for updating of e.g. Intellectual property
rights; media law; and technology. They may perhaps also be a target group for
postgraduate education.

From the experiences in The Netherlands one can trace that in 1995 courses on
Computer law presented by topic was popular. Since most of the audience was fairly
unfamiliar with each topic. These types of courses died abruptly after the fall of dot
com companies. Now the audience is more aware of technology. Courses are now
moving away from certain topics and focusing on law.

Erasmus University offers course for business lawyers and interim lawyers. The aim
is to add business skills and technology skills to their existing skills. The courses are
held in small groups and it is sometimes difficult to fill the class. The approach is to
update on traditional law fields using case law and directives etc. These courses can
be offered for lawyers, technicians or for business administrators too. Law makers can
also be an important target group.

4.8 Experience in Turkey – presented by Selahattin Kuru (Text available at

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                                   13
There are public and private universities in Turkey. FMV ISIK is a private university.
This means that it is conscious of market needs. The need for continuing education
does not seem to be strong.

Computer engineering programmes are the majority of courses offered as continuing
education, with some modules in computer ethics. None are really computer law
modules. The material distributed is mostly different from that presented in similar
courses delivered to other levels. However, the ethics course is a more general one
and is similar to an engineering ethics course.

Undergraduate and graduate programmes are offered by the university. While there is
no graduate programme in ICT and law, some credit courses in ICT are offered in the
law programmes and some law courses in the ICT programmes. Some occasional
courses in ICT for civil servants are offered by other universities or private
associations. There are some courses of continuing education for ICT professionals in
law and ICT.

In FMV ISIK University, in the IT programme some computer ethics courses in
undergraduate programme are offered. Some elective credits of ICT and law courses
may be introduced in future. There are some discussions on introducing these courses
at graduate level too. There is a problem of financing. The (financial) feasibility of the
courses is being examined. There is a need for committed funding and a secured
number of student/persons registering for the courses.

FG asked whether the experiences are similar in public universities.

SK replied that the financial problem might be less pronounced in public university
since they are state financed. However, the overall position is currently similar. There
is a relationship between public and private with teachers teaching in both private and
public universities.

PC asked whether there are any compulsory courses at PhD level for ICT and law.

SK replied that FMV ISIK University does not offer PhD yet. Furthermore, at PhD
level most courses will be optional.

4.9 Experiences in Spain – presented by Pilar Lasala
The experience from the preparation of courses in mathematics and statistics shows
that when preparing student/course plans there should be experts in the area involved
in the creation of the programme. Similarly experts in law related to the subject
concerned should be involved in the development of courses. It is important for
LEFIS to be involved in study plans of different programmes. The different
experiences can be of benefit to some members.

4.10 Experiences in Belgium - Robert Queck (Text available at
The presentation insists on specific points and refers for the rest to the written paper
which was distributed. The University of Namur offers one year masters courses and
in addition to this 6 to 8 modules of continuing education per year (programme called
JuriTIC). The master is interdisciplinary in regard to attendees and to the topics dealt

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                               14
with it (courses in law, computer sciences, management and economics). On the other
hand the topics covered by JuriTIC in continuing education) change every year but
focus on legal issues. The choice depends on current research; developments in law
and are also defined through discussions with the target audiences. The courses can
be seen as an exercise both to update one‟s knowledge or to upgrade it.

These courses started around 1997 or 1998. The training is offered 50% by CRID staff
and 50% by professionals. The modules are offered in French. There is no
examination and no certificate is awarded (but credits for presence are recognized to
solicitors). To promote discussion and interactivity between the participants, the
participants are limited to a maximum of forty people each time, with occasional
classes of up to 70. So far it has not been a problem to attract participants to follow
the courses.

The attendees, mostly lawyers, come from a variety of backgrounds depending on the
subject dealt with in the module e.g. for a medical data protection module, the
attendees can be doctors, lawyers, and technicians.

Advertising for these courses is done mainly through the website and an extensive
email list. Usuallyan interesting issue and a market is first identified then a module
that addresses the issue and satisfies needs of the market is developed and offered.
The courses are mostly self-financing. CRID staff is used but they are in principle
paid by the hour. The courses are mostly followed based on the reputation CRID has
built up during these years and on the interest of topics addressed.

Lunch is included as it proves to be very important for discussions between
participants. Participants come from all over Belgium . Modules are are mostly held in
Namur (but some are offered in Brussels). Some e-learning courses are being thought
of in future.

4.11 Experiences in the United Kingdom – presented by Abdul Paliwala
The system of professional continuing education in the United Kingdom is run by law
society and the Bar, that is, they regulate professional continuing education. The
points can be obtained in a complex number of ways. They are offered by a vast
number of organizations, e.g. conferences and big firms have their own professional
continuing education courses. Other forms of continuing education e.g. training
magistrates, judges etc. is carried out on contract. This may be in conflict with

Continuing legal education for professionals is largely privatized, even in universities
professional legal training is offered and run like a private enterprise, e.g. the
University of Warwick offers professional continuing education at a profit.

It is important to look at the pedagogic relevance of collaborating in an e-learning
environment across the different universities (and private parties) especially in
transactional learning. There is an attempt across UK to collaborate on transactional
learning and this can in future be extended to inter-European work.

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                               15
It is however difficult to have common program of continuing education. It is useful
to concentrate more on information sharing, transnational collaboration, and formative
evaluation for ensuring quality.

FG asked whether the point system applies only for young lawyers.

AP replied that all lawyers need to obtain a number of points, but mostly the system
aims at the young ones in the first three years.

PK remarked that points usually need to be accumulated every year otherwise the
lawyer can lose the ability to appear before the Bar.

RQ noted that there is a similar system in Belgium. When setting a module for
continuing education contact is made with the Bar association and then the module is
accredited by the Bar association.

4.12 ‘The teaching and implementation of advanced computing methods (ACM):
standardization of teaching, questions, perspectives’ – presented by Vladimir Vrecion
(Presentation and text available at
http://www.lefis.org/meetings/workgroup/3/malta_2006/presentaciones/13.ppt and

VV explained that based on his experiences as a graduate in mathematics, economics,
and legal cybernetics and computer modelling of military operations (continuing
education in the army), advanced computing methods can be used to model the
situation of continuing education. The more complex the problem, the more exact the
method used needs to be. Logic and mathematics have an important role. What is
needed here is a good a qualitative analysis and description of the real problem then
an adequate method can be found.

He suggested that a specific piece of software should be created. A logical,
mathematical model should be created first. This will „deliver‟ an algorithm that can
be used to programme and test the software. The main problem with this solution is
one of understanding. It needs to be explained (e.g. to a ministry of justice). One
needs to address the gap between expertise and ignorance in order to advance the
democratic process. (The mathematical explanation of this suggestion is found in
slides that can be accessed at

FG commented that the proposal seems to be a very difficult road.

5. The Chairman invited Fernando Galindo and the participants to draw up a plan of
   activities and time frame for WG3.

5.1 Detailed experiences write-up
FG invited the participants to submit their experiences in continuing education in
writing. These should be sent to FG by 30th April 2006. The suggestion is to follow
the same way in Law and Policy, business and ICT. Hence, the first step is a
collection of approaches. These approaches can be included in the final template of

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                               16
LEFIS for all level‟s teaching. In the final template there should be three divisions.
An explanation of the three divisions has been passed on by FG and is available on
website: Law and Policy, ICT, Business and Management. It is interesting to make
this differentiation. There will be one common template to represent the three areas.

RQ asked whether „law and policy‟ is a subject area.

SK asked whether the differentiation depended on the background or on subject

FG replied that there will be one template for LEFIS – legal education for the
information society (as a subject area). But this will include several documents,
including from law and policy, ICT and business and management curricula and for
several level‟s teaching: undergraduate, postgraduate and continuing education.

FG was then asked to explain what is meant by the term „policy‟ here. Does it refer to
academic policy?

FG replied that if the term policy was proving to be problematic this can be removed.
Policy is a word to express only that LEFIS has interest to made “political”
proposals, but LEFIS will made not proposals for “Political studies”. It is to
understand that it is possible to made LEFIS new proposals for new studies linked to
Law, ICT and Business and Managenemet

RP suggested that information be collected only on courses relating to the information
society. RQ suggested courses from law and policy in ICT and of the information
society in general.

FG added that a second step is to use the answers to the questionnaires.

5.2 Development of learning material
Given the different backgrounds of members in WG3, it would be useful to develop
learning material. These learning modules will then be put on the web. The idea is to
summarize in a part on continuing education existent material used by the different
LEFIS members in continuing education

5.3 Publication of a book
FG suggested that the different presentations on different content and different
addressees will be published in a book on LEFIS continuing education proposals. The
information should be collected and sent to FG who will summarise the different
positions and then circulate. The length of each contribution depends on the individual
members. It can be from 1-20 pages long. The publication will be made in the future:
after the initial discussions of the different LEFIS WG

The material would then be used in a book, a draft of which will be compiled by the
1st of July. The book will deal on the organization of continuing education in
connection with LEFIS. Based on the draft of the book the Tuning template is then
filled in having as reference the presentations, documents and discussions of the WG
in the Malta meeting.

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                            17
RQ asked for some clarification on the direction of the book. He asked whether this
was intended to be a general reflection on what is going on in continuing education.

PK asked whether the intention is to have a teaching book.

FG replied that both types of proposals were welcome. What is important is to have
the reflections and proposals by end of the month (April 2006) and then think of what
kind of book later.

PK asked whether the same procedure would be followed also in undergraduate and
post graduate WGs. FG confirmed that the same will be followed in the other WGs.

RN suggested that there is a need for another group meeting to discuss the content of
the book, otherwise it will be only FG that has to decide.

FG replied that the chairman will also be involved in the compilation and that the
content can be discussed by all the members of the WG by email.

JAC asked whether what the WG aims at by publishing a book is clear. Was it a
reasoned carefully structured proposal on Tuning in continuing education or different
forms of continuing education or was it a snapshot or an amalgamation of all of these
approaches. From an editing perspective, it is important to answer these questions.

RQ suggested that other questions needed to be answered: a. how to work? and b.
where does the WG want to go with the book? Is there a need for another meeting of
WG especially for filling in of Tuning template? He suggested that perhaps the WG
could work in subgroups a. on template; b. on book.

JAC pointed out that one could write a book even on filling in of the Tuning template.

RQ added further that even a snap shot of the current activities in continuing
education is still important.

FG insisted that the write ups should be sent to him by 30th April and in meeting in
October, in Beja time can be spent on filling in of template. After all the reports from
other work groups come in it would be easier to decide on the direction of the book.
Anyway by the 1st of July a first draft of book (possible index), having as reference
the documentation of the WG can be made.

AP pointed out that the main focus of the WG should be that of developing the
template and hence he supports the idea of having a sub-group for the template and a
sub-group for the book.

JAC suggested that the way forward could be of first having an introductory snapshot
followed by an attempt at filling in the Tuning template. Following this suggestion,
RQ proposed that the contributions on the first part of book are to be sent to FG and
the ones for the template to JAC. Then WG can meet to discuss the template before
submitting to general assembly.

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                              18
JAC suggested that there is a need to liaise with other groups (e.g. graduate and post-
graduate) and that there is a need of some quality control.

FG replied that the WG could meet in Beja before the plenary meeting and then
submit to general assembly in October.

RQ asked for a decision to be taken identifying who is in charge of the book and who
is in charge of tuning template.

JAC remarked that a. the re-writing of Council of Europe Recommendation R(92)
would involve around a month‟s work and the template and book would involved at
least another three months‟ work.

FG reminded the WG that the template and the teaching material are the deliverables
required for the EU.

JAC asked whether the book was a deliverable according to the contract with EU. To
which FG replied that teaching materials (on web or in book etc) and template are the
deliverables expected.

AP suggested that the WG should not rush towards producing a book. It is important
to consider what the EU finds more attractive, e.g. web sites, internet based learning,
academic work providing people with ideas on pedagogy, e-learning etc. and typical
curricula and case studies. A book to communicate template and reasoning behind
filling in of template and then some best practice and different case studies should be
preferred. The suggested way forward could be first send examples then development
of template and then write a very good book.

FG reiterated the 30th April proposals deadline. Then he reiterated that the filling in of
the Tuning template in Beja could include the examples to be used in the book.

RQ proposed the following course of action: a. ask other members of the WG for a
description of what is happening; b. based on input fill in template (immediately and
not wait till October). JAC added that the draft of template should be sent before 15th
September so that members could have some time to examine the draft before

FG suggested that if he received documents by 30th April, he could start filling in of
the template for continuing education. Then by the end of May, he could distribute the
draft to all members of the WG.

SK asked whether the template was suitable for continuing education. To which RQ
replied that in his view the template was not suitable to ongoing education and needs
to be adapted. The adaptation could be done especially as the general tuning template
does not mention continuing education. FG agreed that the template was not adequate.

Another time frame was discussed by the group: by 15th May send in proposals plus
rethought template and if possible revision of Council of Europe Recommendation
R(92) 15; end of June circulate the draft filled in template and return comments; by

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                               19
15th September a second draft is sent which is then discussed in Beja. The WG agreed
with this time frame.

6. Information/Administrative questions
6.1 e-learning modules
The Chairman drew the attention of the group to the possibility of using software for
e-learning modules. (Presentation available at
http://www.lefis.org/meetings/workgroup/3/malta_2006/presentaciones/14.ppt) This
can be accessed at www.lefislit.org. This software can be used to edit e-learning or
self-learning courses. It is useful for the creation of synchronous or asynchronous
learning programmes. The e-creator section can be used to train e-learning content
designers. This is an example of industry providing the tools and academic
institutions providing the content. It is planned to made a training course for e-
learning content designers, using distance learning and on-site in Zaragoza. This kind
of course can be funded by Grundtvig 3. The courses will be accredited by the
University of Zaragoza.

RQ asked whether there is a charge to use this software.

FG replied that funding can be obtained from EU for training under Grundtvig. It is
possible to use the proposed software on e learning. The idea is to made joint offerts
to be paid by students (members of firms, for example). The possible incomes would
be distributed between the autors of the courses and the firms that own and
administrate the software

6.2 Administrative matters
FG reminded the participants to send their boarding pass to Zaragoza together with
time sheet for reimbursement of funds.

He informed the WG that about 160,000 euros have been received from EU. About
110,000 euros need to be spent by June 2006 otherwise the rest of the money is not
given by the EU.

JAC asked whether it would be possible to attend more than one WG meeting. FG
replied that there is a possibility to send more people and/or attend two meetings or
more. The rule was initially strict but has now been relaxed slightly.

FG encouraged participants to create more consortia agreements and informed the
WG that the new text of the agreement has been finalised. RN asked when the new
agreements will be sent. FG replied that they will eventually be sent with some
addenda on intellectual property rights. JAC & RQ asked for the agreement with
amendments on property rights to be sent immediately.

7. Conclusion – Note of thanks
The Chairman thanked the participants and JAC and MMC and rest of organizing

Minutes LEFIS WG 3 meeting 8th April 2006                                               20

To top