AgendaforChange NHS Wales Working in Partnership
Agenda for Change
Project Board meeting
Notes of Meeting held at 9.45am, 1st November 2005
Royal College of Nursing, Cardiff
Trade Union Representatives:
Peter Finch – CSP, Dave Galligan – UNISON, Steve Sloan – AMICUS
NHS Management Representatives:
Geraint Evans – Swansea NHS Trust
Welsh Assembly Government:
Pay Modernisation Unit: Ian Stead – Director, Kathryn Charles – Business
Manager, Pat Hemsley, Debra Lomasney and Chris Plant – Regional Leads,
Regional Office: David Murphy for Bob Hudson
Grant Evans for Christine Bamford
Christine Dawes, Derek Griffin, Janet Wilkinson, Lynne Joannou, Martin Turner,
Mary Hodgeon, Mik Webb, Richard Jones, Stephen Redmond, Sue Kent, Tony
Hurrell, Wayne Harris
1. Apologies and Minutes of the last meeting
Minutes of the last meeting were agreed.
2. Update on Current UK situation
England – IMS confirmed that England were reporting 90% being job matched
with over 80% of staff being assimilated. There are performance management
arrangements in place with the 10 worst organisations invited to meet the RSU
with best practice facilities being used to investigate.
Scotland – Job matched 50% with planned assimilation is starting in January.
Northern Ireland – Job matched 50% with planned assimilation starting in
USH – IMS confirmed that the formal date for implementation was agreed at 1 st
October 2006. No agreement regarding Nursing and Midwifery comes under but
options look promising with variations. It is proposed to live test process for three
months in January – March 2006 to monitor behavioural patters. IMS to asked
Wales for a nomination to take part in the pilot. IMS to contact AWHRDs.’
PNC – A meeting will be held in December with plenary sessions to agree a
submission ahead of the NOHPRB report. Outcomes need to be the same from
equal pay point of view. Service representative from HRD to sit at plenary.
Discussions took place regarding the pay increase from April 2006 under
Whitley. IMS/PF to raise at next Exec and CP to raise Payroll Managers
3. Wales Update including Trust Status Reports
South East Wales - DL highlighted sections of the report and confirmed that JM
statistics in the region show all Trust should complete by March 2006 with Gwent
and C&V increasing their matching panels to achieve this. Concerns have been
raised regarding resources and the loss of some job matchers from panels.
Overall the region were working very hard to achieve deadlines with Trusts giving
A4C as much priority as possible.
Mid & West Wales – PH added that this region were working well with
Ceredigion completing job matching with local evaluations being targeted to
finish in December. Additional team support being secured at Swansea with
Carmarthen improving their matching processes and this would hopefully help
them to complete the process on time. PH confirmed that Bro Morgannwg still
had concerns regarding arrears and this would considerably delay the process.
KSF was progressing well with 2 dedicated trainers. BSC matching delayed due
to problems with trained matchers being released. PH to monitor progress and
report to next meeting.
North Wales – CP stated that progress was varied although significant
improvements had been made on collecting job descriptions. NWW continues
to make progress and is currently meeting the three month target for payment of
arrears, concerns with C&D regarding the time of completion although matching
panels had been increased. NEW had made significant progress in job matching
and over 90% of job descriptions had been received. Issues regarding
implementation of KSF had been noted and additional support had been
requested by the Trust. WAS were yet to commence assimilation however there
were issues with releasing staff for job matching which is to be addressed by the
4. Project Plan and Risk Register
KC confirmed that the A4C project plan was on schedule and within budget.
Issues regarding the risk register were addressed with comments regarding the
impact levels and payroll support being debated. The meeting discussed the
financial implications on Trusts with IMS confirming that Christine Daws had
stated that there was no extra funding for A4C. KC to update risk register for
5. Job Evaluation
PH highlighted specific areas from her report and stated that 56% of Trusts in
Wales had completed job matching. As at mid September, 14 of out 16 Trusts
were assimilating staff with up to 20.72% of staff now in receipt of A4C pay.
Local evaluation was very slow although many trusts are issuing JAQs only 13
jobs have been locally evaluated by 4 organisations with a no match rate of 8%.
It is anticipated that 6,000 staff will need local evaluation.
PH advised that the JEMSG were meeting fortnightly to monitor results and
ensure consistency throughout Wales with information to be fed back to the
JESG for information. No major problems have been identified so far. The PMU
continue to visit organisations to discuss activity.
A policy regarding job matching anomalies has been developed. PH to
distribute to A4CPB.
A limited number of review requests had been reported although this is expected
to increase. An official request for assistance has been received from WAS for
job matchers. It was noted that data regarding equality monitoring needed to be
captured in the future and it was agreed that Trusts need to hold this information.
The meeting agreed that the A4CPFSG would take it forward. KC to place on
next A4CPFSG agenda.
DL highlighted sections of her report and noted that at 12th October, 1628 draft
post outlines had been entered on the e-KSF tool with Carmarthen’s entries
totalling 820 alone. There are now 100 post outlines in the national library for
reference which will help assist Trusts.
Training on HR Admin function of the e-KSF tool has taken place. The 34
administrators cover all Trusts, BSC and Powys LHB and will manage the e-KSF
data of their organisation. DL confirmed that the e-KSF tool was not mandatory
in Wales although the A4CKSFSG did encourage organisations to use the
facility. Concerns regarding capacity and resources have been raised in most
Communication with Sue Jones of ESR had developed and meetings were in
place to discuss the integration of the two systems.
DL stated that there was a current lack of reviewer training in Wales and more
information on this is currently being collected in the TSRs.
Links with external organisations continue to develop with ECDL, HPW and Skills
7. Terms & Conditions
CP confirmed that a document specifying which unsocial hours apply to which
staff group had been agreed and issue.
Two applications for RRP have now been considered with neither being
successful. CP stated that the process was discussed at A4CPFSG and
confirmed that the original agreement applies with no final sign off by WAG. IMS
to take forward with AL.
A draft paper on bank holiday working had been created and passed to UK level
for resolution. IMS/PF to seek guidance at next Executive meeting.
CP stated that there was now a clear process for updating the T&C Handbook
through Gwenda Davies and Dennis Patrick at WAG.
It was noted that 20.72% of staff in Wales were in receipt of A4C pay as at end of
Discussions took place regarding the next pay Whitley pay uplift with clarity
required. IMS/PF to take forward at next Executive meeting
8. Benefits Realisation & Monitoring and Evaluation
CP advised that two thirds of BRME plans had been submitted to Ann Lloyd with
some areas of concern being raised regarding content of the reports, with regard
to their link between service modernisation and pay modernisation.
Three BRME workshops would commence on 9th November to discuss way
forward, make links with service modernisation and achieve a clearly defined
workload/approach to Benefits Realisation.
9. Training & Communications
DL asked the meeting to agree a recommendation that this sub group merge with
the Benefits Realisation Sub group due to the development of the project. Lorna
Tinsley, RCM and Andrew Crook, C&V were nominated from the sub group as
representatives to join this sub group and will continue to monitor the PMU
intra/internet websites, newsletter and develop training needs which will be
inputted into the BRME agenda.
An All Wales Leads Event was currently being planned for the end of January.
10. Finance Sub Group
As MW or WH were not available, there was no formal report. IMS advised that
a meeting with Cardiff & Vale and Gwent had been arranged to discuss finance
issues arising from some local cost modelling work.
11. Payroll Managers
CP advised that there were major concerns regarding calculating arrears
payments and the PDQ system used in Payroll Departments which allows
managers to track the employment history of individuals. This system appears to
be outdated which will make calculating arrears payments an issue as it will have
to be done on paper resulting in huge delays. The meeting debated the links
with McKessons and iSOFT. CP to report back to A4CPFSG and next
A4CPB meeting with update.
CP reported that double assimilation guidance had been agreed in Wales.
12. Internal Audit
CP stated that Internal Audit had been asked to review the management process
of the Agenda for Change project by Ann Lloyd. This had taken place over a
period of three months with small recommendations being raised and overall
positive feedback being received.
An Equalities Monitoring sub group would be established with representation
from the Equal Opportunities Unit (Viorrey Mansen and Tracey Goode) and
nominations were currently being identified from all sub groups to take this
forward. KC to action.
CP stated that the Welsh Language Board had asked the PMU to highlight the
important of the Welsh Language in the A4C process. A document had been
circulated, in agreement with the WLB, to highlight this.
IMS continued to meet with NLIAH to form tighter links between the two areas of
work. IMS to report back to next meeting with update.
CP advised that ongoing discussions took place regarding the future support
from PMU as some secondments were coming to an end. The PMU had recently
had an ‘Away Day’ to discuss the future of the project and the possible mapping
of the process into organisations. IMS will produce a central report for discussion
with PFSG and Ann Lloyd. Concern was raised regarding support of the project
and asked that this should also be discussed at AWHRDs. Union
representatives also agreed that this should be discussed at the next full PF.
HRDs/Union members to highlight this concern at the next Partnership
14. Date and time of next meeting
1st February 2006 – 10.15am – 12.15am