CAL Survey by skateguy





             Summary of the Survey Results | J‐M Noël 
Background: ......................................................................................................................................... 3 
Demographics of the CAL families in this survey. ................................................................................... 4 
Overall Rating of the City Proposals:  ..................................................................................................... 6 
Choice of Arenas as a function of area of town in which people reside ................................................... 7 
    North of 401:  ................................................................................................................................... 7 
       Demographics: ...................................................................................................................................... 7 
       Arena Choices: ...................................................................................................................................... 8 
       Parents Comments:  .............................................................................................................................. 8 
    East of Causeway: .......................................................................................................................... 15 
       Demographics: .................................................................................................................................... 15 
       Arena Choices: .................................................................................................................................... 16 
       Parents Comments:  ............................................................................................................................ 17 
    West and Southwest Kingston: ....................................................................................................... 25 
       Demographics: .................................................................................................................................... 25 
       Arena Choices: .................................................................................................................................... 26 
       Parents Comments:  ............................................................................................................................ 27 
    Central & South‐central (Including Wolfe Island): ........................................................................... 39 
       Demographics: .................................................................................................................................... 39 
       Arena Choices: .................................................................................................................................... 40 
       Parents Comments:  ............................................................................................................................ 41 
Choices as a function of Level of CAL Hockey:  .................................................................................... 55 
Miscellaneous Results – Certain questions and their answers: ........................................................... 58 
       If you chose Harold Harvey as your first choice, where do you live? ................................................. 58 
       If you chose the Invista as your 1st choice,  where do you live? ......................................................... 58 
       If you chose Cataraqui/Kinsmen Arena as your first choice, where do you live?............................... 59 
    Summary: ...................................................................................................................................... 60 
       If you chose the Invista as being your first choice, what was your second choice? ........................... 60 
       If you chose the Harold Harvey as your first choice, what was your second choice? ........................ 61 
       Not the Harvey as their 1st choice, what were their choices? ............................................................ 61 
       Not the Invista as their 1st choice, what were their choices? ............................................................. 62 

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There has been much publicity over the last few weeks about the City’s plan to close a hockey arena in 
Kingston. The City is arguing that there is more ice available than what is currently being used. An inde‐
pendent study commissioned by the City supports this argument and states that present ice use requires 
8.5 ice surfaces with the K‐ROCK Centre acting as 0.5 ice surface. To put things in perspective, the cur‐
rent ice requirements for the CAL are approximately 1.5 ice surfaces (excluding Constantine Arena) to 
run their programs efficiently. 
As a result of this report and other studies that were undertaken by City Staff, one of the following are‐
nas will be recommended for closure: the Memorial Center, Center‐70 or finally the Harold Harvey. The 
Harold Harvey Arena has been the home of the CAL for the last 59 years and many of us affectionately 
refer to it as the Harvey Dome.  
Two years ago, an agreement between the City of Kingston and the CAL was signed that granted the CAL 
exclusive use of the Harold Harvey Arena for our hockey and skating programs. This was a 3‐year agree‐
ment with an additional 2‐year option for the CAL. The first part of the contract is due to expire next 
year at the end of the 2010/2011 hockey season and the City has indicated that they have no intention 
to enter into negotiations for the 2‐year option. 
Over the last few months, the CAL Board and Executive have been in consultation with City officials in 
order to work out an arrangement so that CAL programming can continue unaffected.  
To this end, City Officials have made 4 proposals to the CAL Executive to consider, with the goal to reach 
an agreement with the CAL that would allow Harold Harvey to be closed at the end of the 2009/2010 
season, a year earlier than our contract expires. 
The CAL conducted a Town Hall meeting on the evening of January 22, 2010 where the proposals were 
presented and members were invited to provide discussion and input. At the conclusion of this meeting, 
the CAL Executive decided to survey all the members of the CAL in order to receive their guidance in 
making this very difficult decision. 

The results of the survey follows. 




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Demographics of the CAL families in this survey. 

Table 1 Number of Children that are currently participating in CAL programming. 

    How many children do you currently have participating CAL programs?

                                                                   Response             Response
    Answer Options
                                                                    Percent              Count
    0                                                                  0.2%                1
    1                                                                  67.7%              287
    2                                                                  27.8%              118
    3                                                                  3.8%                16
    4                                                                  0.5%                2
    5                                                                  0.0%                0
                                                        answered question                       424
                                                          skipped question                        7

The total number of children that this survey reflects is 579 (2*4 + 3*16 + 2*118+287) out of 1121 for a 
response rate of 51.7%.  Atlternatively, there were 431 from a total of 815 possible responses from 
families.  This respresents a response rate of 52.9%. 


Table 2 Number of years that children have participated in CAL Programming. 

How many years has(have) your child(children) participated in the CAL?
Number of years in program
Answer                                                                                           more    Response
                  1                2               3               4                5
Options                                                                                         than 5    Count
Player   1        61              66              62              52               37            141        419
Player   2        33              26              23              15               18             36        151
Player   3        5               8               3               1                2              6         25
Player   4        1               0               0               0                1              0          2
Player   5        0               0               0               0                0              2          2

                                                                                   answered question            425
                                                                                     skipped question             6



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Table 3 ‐ Level in which the children were playing thic current season (2009/2010). 

In what level(s) is(are) your child(children) playing in the CAL this season?
Answer                                                                                                         Response
                   IP             Novice            Atom        Peewee           Bantam             Midget
Options                                                                                                         Count
Player   1         56                68                 77          71                 77             70          419
Player   2         24                28                 30          19                 14             19          134
Player   3         4                  4                  3          3                  1               1          16
Player   4         1                  0                  1          0                  0               0           2
Player   5         0                  0                  0          0                  0               0           0

                                                                                       answered question              424
                                                                                         skipped question               7

Table 4 ‐ Region of the city in which families live. 

In what area of the city do you reside?

                                                                                  Response Per-              Response
Answer Options
                                                                                      cent                    Count
Wolfe Island                                                                                 1.4%                6
West (west of Centennial Drive - north of Bath Road)                                        18.9%               80
SouthWest (west of Centennial Drive - south of Bath Road)                                   13.2%               56
Central (east of Centennial - west of the Causeway, north of
                                                                                            9.0%                38
princess, south of 401)
SouthCentral (Bounded by Centennial, Princess Street, Bath Road
                                                                                            20.5%               87
and Lake Ontario)
North (North of the 401)                                                                    16.5%               70
East (East of the Causeway - Highway 15)                                                    20.5%               87
                                                                             answered question                 424
                                                                               skipped question                 7






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Figure 1 ‐ Area of the City of Kingston in which the families reside. 


Overall Rating of the City Proposals: 
If one is to consider that the satisfaction factor is any proposal that has been chosen as 1st or 2nd and 
that the dissatisfaction factor as being proposals that are chosen as 3rd and 4th, from the table above, the 
proposal for Invista and Cataraqui/Kinsmen both have satisfaction factors greater than Harold Harvey 

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(67.5% Invista, 53.5% Cat/Kin compared to 48.8% for Harold Harvey).  What is also apparent from this 
table is that more than half the people polled chose Harold Harvey as their 3rd or 4th choice (~51.2%).  
This is only second to the proposal from C‐70 where the dissatisfaction factor is approximately 65%.  
This indicates that C‐70 should not be considered given that it only had 35.2% support from those 

Choice of Arenas as a function of area of town in which people reside  

North of 401: 

    How many children do you currently have participating CAL programs?

                                                          Response         Response
    Answer Options
                                                           Percent          Count
    0                                                        0.0%              0
    1                                                        66.2%             45
    2                                                        29.4%             21
    3                                                        2.9%              2
    4                                                        1.5%              1
    5                                                        0.0%              0
                                                   answered question                 69
                                                     skipped question                 1

    How many years has (have) your child (children) participated in the CAL?
    Number of years in program

    Answer Options     1     2      3     4    5       more than 5           Response Count

    Player   1        16     10    11     6    4            24                       71
    Player   2        6      3     3      1    4             8                       25
    Player   3        0      0     1      1    0             1                       3
    Player   4        0      0     0      0    1             0                       1
    Player   5        0      0     0      0    0             0                       0

                                                                              Question Totals

                                                   answered question                            70
                                                     skipped question                            0

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Arena Choices: 

Parents Comments: 


Answer Options                                                                 Response Count

answered question                                                                               67
skipped question                                                                                 2

Number   Response Date          Response Text
1        Jan 23, 2010 8:30 PM   no comments to add thanks.
2        Jan 23, 2010 9:17 PM   Time to retire Harold Gardens
                                the cataraqui option seems the most logical ,cal could remain
3        Jan 23, 2010 9:19 PM   authentic and seperated from other associations,,plus all the
                                needs can be met ,,offices canteens,,handicap accessable

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                             10 pm ice time for midget level is not acceptable. It is to late for
                             teenage age kids that need to get up the next morning. (never
4    Jan 23, 2010 10:19 PM
                             mind the parents). the HH ice is also to small for midget level
                             especially when there is larger surplus ice pads available.
                             For me it does not matter where the program is, as long as it is
                             run the same as it has always been run. Although I currently
                             only have 1 child enroled I have 3 other sons who have played
                             CAL in the past and I love this league. My only concern is for
5    Jan 23, 2010 10:29 PM
                             people who live in the heart of the city and do not have transpor-
                             tation. How are they suppose to get out to places like the Invista
                             Centre without it costing them a fortune in cab fare. Who is
                             looking out for these people?
                             The Kinsmen and Invista rinks are central for all (north and south
6    Jan 23, 2010 10:31 PM   of 401)....but if this results in irrattic ice times?....We would pre-
                             fer stable ice schedules like we have now
                             Harold Harvey as a home rink and the consistant hours the CAL
                             provide works extremely well for so many families. As a coach at
7    Jan 23, 2010 11:09 PM
                             the IP level and Novice I feel that closing the Harold Harvey are-
                             na will jeopardize these times that make so many families happy.
                             I have no real comment, I chose the rink that was closest to
8    Jan 23, 2010 11:29 PM
                             home and the newest.
                             I feel that by a big part of the CAL is the arena and that some-
9    Jan 24, 2010 12:10 AM   times less is more.. not a fan of the invista --you can loose a
                             sense of team in the big arenas..............
                             Let it go - it is an old rink . Very hard as a parent to watch a
                             game - either you sit in the FREEZING cold of the rink, watch at
10   Jan 24, 2010 12:24 AM   the end thru very scratched glass - holds about 15 parents -
                             standing only or you are upstairs where you cannot see all cor-
                             ners - again capacity 20 parents.
                             it is time to say goodbye to the Harvey........The cat would feel
11   Jan 24, 2010 12:56 AM   more like a home rink but i could live with the Invista
                             We live north of the city so we have to drive regardless. We have
12   Jan 24, 2010 1:01 AM    chosen those in closest proximity to us but, really, any of the op-
                             tions are fine with us.
13   Jan 24, 2010 2:51 AM    See survey
                             Living in North Kingston we find centre 70 the hardest rink to get
14   Jan 24, 2010 3:27 AM
                             too,due to traffic and distance.
                             Going to miss the Harvey Dome!!! It was nice to bring my son to
15   Jan 24, 2010 3:46 AM    hockey at the same arena I grow up playing and for the same
                             The Harold Harvey rink is very old and run down. The rink sur-
                             face is small for the midget players. The rink has been going
                             downhill since my husband played in the CAL 30 years ago.

                             It will be good for the league to move to an updated rink with
16   Jan 24, 2010 5:17 AM
                             larger ice surfaces and dressing rooms.

                             The Cat Kinsmen rink would be ideal with the two larger ice sur-
                             faces. There is plenty of room for families watching the game.
                             There is lots of parking. The league could run the canteen- may-

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                            be hiring CAL players to work.
                            It would be a fanastic move for the CAL.

                            It is time to move forward with a more up to date facility and
17   Jan 24, 2010 1:54 PM
                            also no 10pm ice times.
18   Jan 24, 2010 2:19 PM   NO additional comments.
                            I am confident that the executive of the CAL will choose the pro-
                            posal that takes in the needs of all the age groups. I believe that
19   Jan 24, 2010 2:23 PM
                            the CAL is more about the people than the place. Thank you for
                            your hard work and dedication.
                            Cataraqui/Kinsmen Rink is the best choice to keep the CAL office
20   Jan 24, 2010 3:44 PM
                            and players together, also very central to 401.
                            I would like to hope that the older kids would at the 10pm ice
21   Jan 24, 2010 5:05 PM
                            times; not the younger ones
                            We have absolutely no desire to travel to Centre 70 for hockey
22   Jan 25, 2010 2:32 AM
                            Since we live north of the city we would prefer not to have to
                            travel to centre 70 as it is quite a bit further away than those
23   Jan 25, 2010 3:48 AM   arenas located at the 401. We prefer the arenas at the 401 ie
                            Invista and Cat. Thank you for sending out this survey. Well
                            Understanding that it is sad that perhaps the days at Harold Har-
                            vey are coming to an end. 59 years is a long time however with-
24   Jan 25, 2010 1:14 PM   out the dollars to upgrade the infrastructure there isn't much of a
                            choice in the matter. I don't see much sense of moving to Cen-
                            tre 70 when its days are apparently numbered as well.
                            the Cat/Kin and Invista proposal makes the most sense - both
25   Jan 25, 2010 2:02 PM
                            great rinks and there is only 4hrs of icetime not allocated.
                            Cataraqui could accommodate everyone with the two ice pads.
                            The younger teams could split the bigger ice surface for practices
26   Jan 25, 2010 2:25 PM
                            and hold two at the same time. Good location, C-70 is way out
                            of the way. The CAL could call it their new home.
27   Jan 25, 2010 3:27 PM   no comment
                            As we reside north of the 401 (Storrington) - C70 is very incon-
28   Jan 25, 2010 4:44 PM
                            venient - we hope this is selected as a last resort only.
29   Jan 25, 2010 5:40 PM   none
                            Thank you to all for your time spent working on this issue. I ap-
30   Jan 25, 2010 7:19 PM   preciate the hard work put into taking care of our kids and am
                            comfortable with any decision made.
                            important to keep consistent practice days and times...along with
31   Jan 25, 2010 8:23 PM
                            the schedule we have become to love...
                            Invista provides the most services. All other proposals are infe-
32   Jan 25, 2010 8:27 PM
33   Jan 25, 2010 9:04 PM   No Comment!

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                            I find it sad that the City is forcing the Harold Harvey to close
                            when it has obviously been working effectively for the CAL for
34   Jan 26, 2010 3:20 PM   decades. This is yet another way to City to be able to afford and
                            try to justify the cost of the KRock centre that they forced upon
                            As I believe that the majority of the members of CAL would like
                            to remain in Harold Harvey, it is inevitable that the city is going
                            to close the building. They have indicated they will not enter into
                            negotiations for the two option years with CAL for the continued
                            use of the Harold Harvey Arena. We must as an organization now
                            determine what the next best option would be as we move for-
                            ward. I believe that no matter what option is adopted, there will
35   Jan 26, 2010 4:39 PM
                            be members that will benefit and members that lose out in re-
                            gards to thier ability to travel the distances to and from the are-
                            nas. No matter what option is adopted, we must accept it and
                            move forward for the betterment of the organization. Not all
                            members will be in agreement or happy about the final decision,
                            but the city has left us with four options moving forward and we
                            must accept one of them as a unified group.
                            The CAL has been a wonderful contributor to community spirit all
                            these years and should be very proud of all their accomplish-
36   Jan 26, 2010 6:45 PM   ments. The city should be proud to support this fine association
                            and make CAL a priority. This club has made a real difference in
                            many children's lives for many, many years.
37   Jan 26, 2010 8:06 PM   This is 2010, let's play in a up to date facility if possible.
38   Jan 26, 2010 8:11 PM   None
                            Harold Harvey is old,cold and outdated. It is the worst rink in the
39   Jan 26, 2010 8:18 PM   city. Also it is located in the worst location. Play anywhere else,
                            My Family has been playing hockey at the the Harold Harvey thru
                            generations since it was first open. It is a convenient and ideal
                            rink for most of the parents and kids involved in the CAL. With
                            all the focus being put on keeping your children active and
                            healthy it seems a shame that all these rinks are in danger of
                            closing, forcing player cost higher in the few rinks left because
                            ice will be in demand and there for at a premium cost to the indi-
40   Jan 26, 2010 9:45 PM
                            vidual organizations. This will not only affect the CAL teams but
                            every team in the kingston and surrounding areas as they will
                            have to fight for ice time when available, also making harder to
                            have skate programs ie :power skating, family skating, hockey
                            camps or what have you. I would hope that this decision is
                            based on the real facts affecting players, and not jusrt a political
                            It may be time to move ASAP to ensure that the CAL gets the ice
                            time that they want( Guaranteed)... The rinks that did close have
41   Jan 26, 2010 9:49 PM   already made long time men's hockey & pick up hockey times
                            change. (no longer able to pick up the same time as had the last
                            11 years...)

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                             We are brand new to the hockey scene and don`t `have a
                             strong opinion either way. Just going by what we`ve heard is
                             that the Harvey offers a smaller ice pad which proves better
42   Jan 26, 2010 11:06 PM
                             suited for the kids and and perhaps more cost effective to main-
                             tain. The fact that it has been C.A.L`s home arena for 59 years
                             seems a shame to close it down at this point.
                             We like Cataraqui/Kinsmen as it would be nice to have most of
43   Jan 27, 2010 12:15 AM
                             the games at the home rink. Two ice-pads would be great!
                             Cat and Kinsmen rink option would create that home rink at-
44   Jan 27, 2010 12:36 AM   mosphere. Also gives the option to play at the new Invista cen-
                             Any movement or disruption to the CAL which is an outstanding
                             organization should only be to a much improved facility either
                             purpose built or in one of the citis most modern rinks. Arrange-
                             ments must also be made house the administrative needs of the
45   Jan 27, 2010 12:37 AM   CAL. I think that considering the high level of organization by the
                             league and the quality odf participation by most players and
                             teams that we deserve the best that there is to offer in 2010. Our
                             participants deserve the best that can be had! Thank you for all
                             that you do for our children.
46   Jan 27, 2010 2:27 AM    thankyou
                             The CAL needs to give up the Harold Harvey Arena. It has been
47   Jan 27, 2010 4:25 AM    around for a long time and the CAL needs a fresh start at a new
                             facility; perhaps the Invista Centre.
48   Jan 27, 2010 1:56 PM    thanks
                             We are ok with what you decide.
49   Jan 27, 2010 4:28 PM
                             Although I have no complaints about Harold Harvey arena, my
                             choice (Cataraqui Arena and the Invista Center) is solely based
50   Jan 27, 2010 5:33 PM
                             on the fact that those two arenas are within a 5 minute drive
                             from my home.
                             Any solution should include as few late night games as possible.
                             Kids of all ages need to be focusing on school first - late night
51   Jan 27, 2010 6:08 PM
                             games disrupt sleep patterns and their performance in the class-
                             room the next day.
                             I feel that if we were to have the Invista Centre for our home
                             rink would be an advantage for the kids. The Harold Harvey has
                             nothing to offer for the kids or parents. It is an old and decrepit
52   Jan 27, 2010 6:56 PM    building. When you are at the Invista centre, you can grab a
                             snack, drink and the washrooms are clean. You don't freeze your
                             butt off!!! It would be a lot closer for parents who live north of
                             the 401 and much more convenient.
                             My preferences would be the Cat Rink or Harold Harvey.

53   Jan 27, 2010 7:05 PM    I find CAL to be an excellent program for your hockey players
                             and I feel blessed that my son is learning with such amazing
                             coaches and trainers.
                             If Centre 70 becomes the main rink....I do believe that we will go
54   Jan 27, 2010 7:47 PM
                             else where to play hockey.

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                            Harold Harvey has served us well, but it is time to move on. It is
                            small, old and very poor to view the games. The games for older
                            players (Midget & Bantam) are slow and crampped, reduced to
                            hacking and banging. When they play at a larger rink, it is an
                            entirely different game! There is passing, speed and more nor-
55   Jan 27, 2010 7:51 PM
                            mal hockey plays (break outs, passing to points for shots,
                            etc.)....a much better hockey experience and much more enjoya-
                            ble to watch (and much warmer!!!). I am not aware of any play-
                            ers on my sons' Bantam or Midget teams who want to stay at
                            Harold Harvey. All players perfer the newer. larger rinks.
                            My biggest concern is the ability to have stable practice times
                            and those being after school not early morning practices. As well
                            as the house league games NOT being on Sunday mornings as
                            this is church league and many members attend service on Sun-
                            day mornings.

                            These were reasons we choose CAL over the other options in the
56   Jan 28, 2010 1:52 PM   area although we do find that HH is the most inconvenient of our
                            choices of rinks when we live in the eastern part of South Fron-
                            tenac Township.

                            That said we are now loyal supporters of the CAL and will follow
                            wherever they go as my children have all had some participation
                            in their programs (although currently we only have 1 actively in-
                            volved) and the coaching and volunteer staff are second to none!
                            For my family kinsmen/cataracqui is the best , harold harvey has
57   Jan 28, 2010 3:46 PM   served its purpose forget the oldtimes think about what is best
                            for the kids right now
                            I chose the Invista option because there are no 10pm ice times.
                            My son plays bantam this year and will move to midget next
                            year. 10pm is really just too late for our family. Even the 9pm
58   Jan 28, 2010 8:23 PM   practices for the bantams have been a challenge - especially for
                            the minors.

59   Jan 29, 2010 5:46 PM   Enjoy having practices through the week!
                            Sounds like the Harvey Dome is doomed (sooner or later). The
                            new four-pad is an excellent facility with good access for us
60   Jan 29, 2010 5:56 PM
                            north-of-the-401 players. Let's take the four-pad and make it our
                            new home for the next 60 years.
                            I personaly do NOT feel that the city should close ANY arena in
                            the area because the city is constantly growing an I feel that
                            once a facility is closed it will be very difficult to re-open as re-
                            quired. it is also of my opinion that there is a shortage of ice time
61   Jan 29, 2010 6:35 PM
                            during peek times. TO add a further point as a player in adult
                            hockey we have had a hard time finding ice time there are sever-
                            al teams in search of " home ice" . Thanks for the opportunity
                            to express my point of view.
                            For us north of 401 the invista or the cat arena would be a more
                            convenient location for us especially when we have a 10:00 p.m.
62   Jan 29, 2010 6:37 PM
                            practice time and most of our games are either at 9:00 or 10:00

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63   Jan 29, 2010 6:53 PM   The Invista arena is modern, well kept and more central.
                            It's too bad that we will be losing Harold Harvey arena with its
                            sense of history and community. This rink and the Memorial cen-
64   Jan 29, 2010 6:54 PM   tre will be sorely missed as they are the most accessible to both
                            work and home. The other rinks are fine if you live in the West
                            end however.
                            The 10 pm games and practices for the Midgets is far too late at
                            night when kids that live north of the 401 and need to be up in
65   Jan 30, 2010 1:26 AM
                            the morning by 6 am to catch a bus at 7 am when they don't get
                            to bed until midnight. Center-70 would be even worse.
                            Kids hockey should not be played at 10pm any night. This keeps
                            the kids out too late at night, by the time the game or practice is
                            over and the kids get undressed then there is travel time to get
                            home, it would be pushing 12am. If the K-Rock Centre is a possi-
                            ble TBD rink, there is no parking!! Also, the K-Rock ice time is
                            more expensive - so in turn the registration fees will increase. If
66   Jan 30, 2010 2:08 AM
                            the majority of ice time is centered near Hwy 401, the travel time
                            would be split equally between city and rural families. PLEASE
                            LOT OF K-ROCK ICE TIME!!!!

                            Thank you.
                            Cataraqui and Invista have the most available ice times, and the
67   Jan 30, 2010 2:51 AM
                            most up to date facilities.


                                                                                  14 | P a g e  
East of Causeway: 

How many years has (have) your child (children) participated in the CAL?
Number of years in program
Answer                                                                     more      Response
              1            2           3           4            5
Options                                                                   than 5      Count
Player   1    13          14           12          15           2           27           83
Player   2    7           7            5           1            5           6            31
Player   3    4           2            1           0            1           1            9
Player   4    1           0            0           0            0           0            1
Player   5    0           0            0           0            0           1            1

                                                               answered question              85
                                                                 skipped question              0

In what level(s) is(are) your child(children) playing in the CAL this season?
Answer                                                                               Response
             IP         Novice       Atom       Peewee       Bantam       Midget
Options                                                                               Count
Player   1    10          16          15           11          20           13           85
Player   2    5            4           9           4           2            4            28
Player   3    2            1           2           0           0            1            6
Player   4    1            0           0           0           0            0            1
Player   5    0            0           0           0           0            0            0

                                                               answered question              85
                                                                 skipped question              0

                                                                                    15 | P a g e  
Arena Choices: 


                      16 | P a g e  
Parents Comments: 

Answer Options                                                                    Response Count

            answered question                                                                     78
              skipped question                                                                     7

Number   Response Date           Response Text
1        Jan 23, 2010 6:47 PM    Any arena with heat is fine by me.
                                 The 10 pm games during the week for Midget is very difficult for
                                 both the parents and the participants.

                                 Most of these kids have a bus to catch between 7 - 7:30 am. For
                                 anyone coming from the east end - Center 70 is the farthest rink
                                 to get to, again the late timing is difficult. There are no conces-
2        Jan 23, 2010 6:58 PM    sions available at Harold Harvey or Center 70, the seating (if you
                                 can all it that ) at Harvey dome is terrible.

                                 The dressing rooms/security are dismal at best. We have a new
                                 complex that is sitting empty that has hot water - larger dressing
                                 rooms, pro shop. Bigger ice surface, pleasant facilities and park-
                                 ing to boot!!!
                                 The central location of Harold Harvey within the city makes it a
3        Jan 23, 2010 7:01 PM
                                 better fit for the CAL.
                                 As a parent of a son going into Midget, the 10:00 pm ice times
4        Jan 23, 2010 9:00 PM    are difficult for students. As a taxpayer, closing the Harold Har-
                                 vey makes most sense.
                                 The preference is Harold Harvey. There is such a long history
                                 here and so many memories for so many families. People are
                                 sentimentally attached to the Harvey Dome. Even though my son
                                 has only been playing with the CAL for the last almost 6 years
                                 and next year will be his last, the Harvey Dome has grown on us.
                                 As he says, "It's Home", and there's no place like home! My sug-
                                 gestion would be, considering the fact that Harold Harvey and
                                 Centre 70 are in close proximity to each other, why not close
                                 Centre 70 (as there is no sentimental attachment there for any
                                 users that I am aware of - certainly not to the extent that there is
5        Jan 23, 2010 9:41 PM    at Harold Harvey for the last 50+ years) and use the savings
                                 from that to put back into Harold Harvey. This way there is still a
                                 community arena in the area, the memories will live on, and it
                                 will still be a home for the CAL for years to come. Wally Elmer
                                 was kept open "solely" so that people in that area of town could
                                 have a "community arena". Apparently, it is used for public skat-
                                 ing only. Money is continuing to be spent by the city to run that
                                 rink for one purpose only "a community arena"; the same should
                                 be afforded to the people in the surrounding area affected by the
                                 Harvey Dome and those who use it on a weekly basis for hockey
                                 and other skating programs - when the Dome is open, for the

                                                                                        17 | P a g e  
                             most part, the ice is being utilized unlike at Wally. Considering
                             the fact that so many people are attached in so many ways to
                             Harold Harvey, it's only right that the city should continue to
                             support it, put money into it, and keep it open. MAKE IT RIGHT!

                             Although we love HH it would seem prudent to ensure the newer
6    Jan 23, 2010 10:27 PM   ice surfaces and presumably the most cost efficient surfaces are
                             used to maximum potential
                             Since we are new to Kingston we do have the strong attache-
7    Jan 23, 2010 11:21 PM
                             ment to harold harvey as others may.
                             I understand that the HH is old and needs work, but the City
                             needs to understand that those of us who live in the east end
                             and downtown do not what to drive to the west end of town for
                             the majority of our games and practices. Although the Invista
8    Jan 23, 2010 11:26 PM   Centre is undeniably gorgeous, and new, it is a long hike for our
                             family. This is the main reason for our loyalty to HH and CAL.
                             Do the east enders and folks in downtown core not deserve a
                             facility within 10 mins of their home? Every other community in
                             town has that.
9    Jan 24, 2010 12:50 AM   NO COMMENT
                             Centre 70 is too far for our family since we live in the East end.
                             5pm week night is difficult but something I am committed to.
10   Jan 24, 2010 1:10 AM
                             Harold Harvey is the CAL home and should remain so. If CAL
                             moved to Centre 70 my son could no longer play hockey.
11   Jan 24, 2010 3:10 AM    n/c
                             Cat/Kinsmen seems to make the most sence with regards to of-
                             fice space and all the AAA/AA seem
12   Jan 24, 2010 4:43 PM
                             to use the Invista, so maybe scheduling may become a concern
13   Jan 24, 2010 5:03 PM    No additional comment
14   Jan 24, 2010 7:28 PM    ***
                             as long as we are not in danger of getting jerked around either
                             by the City or the KAMHA for our schedules; practice or game, I
                             think that Cat. is an OK option for us. It is, I think, the most cen-
15   Jan 24, 2010 7:45 PM
                             tral other than the M centre but I think that for families with mul-
                             tiple players the chance of utilizing 2 pads may mitigate the driv-
16   Jan 24, 2010 9:14 PM    no comments
17   Jan 24, 2010 9:24 PM    No comments at this time.
18   Jan 24, 2010 10:13 PM   we repscet the decison of the board
19   Jan 25, 2010 12:55 AM   Hope things work out before end of this season.

                                                                                     18 | P a g e  
                             What matters for us most is that our kids get to play in a fun fair
                             league with equal ice time with a focus on fun. Secondly, is the
                             time that we play. If we have to do before school practices we
20   Jan 25, 2010 11:06 AM
                             would likely not play. Are there any other Leagues that have
                             exclusive use of a rink? Why don't they close a rink that does not
                             have an entire league attached to it? We really like the CAL.
                             I feel that Harold Harvey is the last rink in town that is left "down
                             town" as Cooks and Wally Elmer are both no longer in use. I
                             also feel that the city of kingston focuses a lot on the West end,
21   Jan 25, 2010 11:31 AM
                             but it isn't the only part of town..... I realize that the invista cen-
                             tre is new and built for this reason and if that is where the C.A.L.
                             is moved to so be it but why would we be moved to centre 70?
                             I wish I new more about the economics of this. If it is simply the
                             chilling system for the ice surface needs to be replaced, perhaps
                             it is time the CAL members did some fundraising like the originat-
                             ing members of CAL did over 50 years ago. If it is the cost of the
22   Jan 25, 2010 1:23 PM    zamboni drivers, that is another issue. I read about Kingston
                             wanting to be Canada's most 'sustainable' city. I am not sure
                             how closing a rink in the centre of the city and have everyone
                             drive to the outskirts of the municipality accomplishes this. It
                             appears a step backwards.
23   Jan 25, 2010 1:52 PM    Our children play for Fort Henry.
24   Jan 25, 2010 2:13 PM    No comments.
                             Good luck. Keep up the great work. Your efforts are certainly ap-
25   Jan 25, 2010 2:24 PM
                             Isn't it ironic, that all the arena's (except the Memorial Cen-
                             ter...that is a separate can of worms) that they wish to keep
                             open are all located in the West End? They closed Cook
                             Bros...Wally Elmer I have no idea what they did to is too
                             small a ice surface anyways...and now Harold Harvey. What hap-
                             pens to the inner city and East end of Kingston? Truth be
                             told...Center 70 is a worse arena of the lot. What has the city got
26   Jan 25, 2010 2:32 PM
                             against the CAL and Harold Harvey. For my 2 cents it is just the
                             power brokers of the city league along with OMHA putting anoth-
                             er nail in the coffin of the CAL.

                             As an alternative to the closing of the HH, then I would have to
                             say the twin pads would be the best choice of the lot, where we
                             control the canteen.
27   Jan 25, 2010 2:38 PM    no comment
28   Jan 25, 2010 2:54 PM    No comment
                             I chose Cat/Kingston last because I didn't know where it was -
29   Jan 25, 2010 3:20 PM    but am in the east end so anything close to the east end is desir-
                             I have had 2 children in the CAL and both have played in other
                             Kingston leagues.

30   Jan 25, 2010 3:43 PM    We really enjoy the CAL programs and philosophy.

                             However, the Harold Harvey is a terrible rink to watch a game in,
                             and I understand the mechanicals are outdated and would be

                                                                                      19 | P a g e  
                             expensive to bring up to present day standards. I fully support a
                             move to one of the new rinks or if not possible the Kins-
                             men/Centre 70.

                             As a Military Member whose child plays for the FH club, I am a
                             little removed from this situation, however I do support the CAL
31   Jan 25, 2010 3:48 PM    in searching for a permanent home for the program and hope the
                             City can reach a solution with the CAL that has the interests of
                             the players/families at heart.
                             I have a couple comments. I prefer the HH choice. However,
                             there are far too many 10:00 pm games. Especially when a team
                             may have two or even three in one week. If the CAL is able to
                             hold on to HH, then they need to rectify the scheduling. No Mid-
                             get team should have more the one 10:00 pm game in a week.

                             Living in the East, all the Arenas (except for RMC) are essentually
                             the same distance away, time wise (10-15 min), so driving is not
                             an issue. HH has a good ice surface and good size dressing
                             rooms, and for Midgets, good showers.
32   Jan 25, 2010 4:32 PM
                             C70 is not a pleasant Arena to play in or coach in, dressing rooms
                             are poor and there is only one shower per room. At present, Cat-
                             araqui Arena seems like a waste land. But I'm sure that would
                             change if the CAL was there. The Cataraqui Pad has poor dress-
                             ing rooms and poor showers as well.

                             I'm not sure it's a very good idea to have two house leagues
                             playing out of the same arena. I think the KMHA plays out of the
                             I would prefer no 10 pm ice times .

33   Jan 25, 2010 7:06 PM    As long as our CAL ice-time is firm, and cannot be bumped due
                             to non-CAL tournament or event - I am not overly concerned in
                             which rink.
                             Harold Harvey has seen its day. The rink is too small for the
                             Bantams and Midgets as well as the dressing room facilities.
34   Jan 25, 2010 7:20 PM
                             Moving to a newer facility will only attract more numbers to this
                             If the CAL moves to the Investa centre or some of the larger
                             rinks, they will have to compete for prime ice with the Rep teams
35   Jan 25, 2010 8:07 PM
                             and we all know that the priority will go to the Rep teams. As
                             much as they say it won't I believe that it will.
                             why doesnt the city just designate the Mem centre as the new
36   Jan 26, 2010 12:09 AM
                             CAL home rink
37   Jan 26, 2010 12:41 AM   If one arena closes, hopefully the cost will not go up.
38   Jan 26, 2010 1:43 AM    no comment

                                                                                   20 | P a g e  
                            It is a shame to close the Harold Harvey Arena, or the Harvey
                            Gardens as we like to call it. It is a rink that is full of Kingston
                            hockey history, but unfortunately in order to be fiscally responsi-
39   Jan 26, 2010 2:25 AM   ble it may be a necessary reduction. At the very least, if the CAL
                            gets to use the Invista as its home ice, it is a nice rink, has good
                            amenities and has better heat, cooling and ventilation which is a
                            better environment for players and spectators.
                            I thank you for the opportunity to complete the survey. Harold
                            Harvey is below standard in so many ways. Spectator and con-
                            cession are inadequate which makes for a less than pleasurable
                            experience for family and friends who want to support hockey.
40   Jan 26, 2010 3:05 AM   The changerooms are way to small for a team of 16 or 17 play-
                            ers. I believe CAL's strength are the people and players not the
                            arena. Let's go for a pad at the Invista. I can tell you right now
                            that if we had left this up to the hockey players we would be at
                            Invista right now.
                            While a venerable old rink, we must face facts; The Harold Har-
                            vey arena is well past it's prime. It is small, poorly located based
                            on the modern demographics of Kingston, a shabby building,
                            poor ice surface, horridly small dressing rooms, terribly cold, and
                            not well kept. It lacks parking and is hardly accessible for those
41   Jan 26, 2010 3:39 AM
                            spectators who are disabled. Players do not enjoy playing there
                            compared to the other rinks in the area. We'd also see less 10
                            pm game times without the HH - and no one likes 10 pm games,
                            especially on school nights. It is time to let go. I favour any op-
                            tion that sees this rink closed.
42   Jan 26, 2010 7:55 PM   no comment
                            One the reasons we moved to CAL is because of the week night
43   Jan 26, 2010 8:07 PM
                            practices and we hope that this will continue.
                            First of all, thanks for your valiant efforts on behalf of the par-
                            ents. It is not your fault that the City located its 4-pad rink a 25
                            minute drive (or more) from the residents of Kingston East. It
                            should have been located on the old Alcan lands to cut down on
                            commuting time. The M. Centre is the most central rink, but we
                            can't get enough ice there, so it is a tough choice. I would hate
44   Jan 26, 2010 8:38 PM
                            to be an East Kingston non Fort Henry CAL parent with 3 kids in
                            hockey!! Imagine the driving. Also, hasn't it occurred to the City
                            that demand for ice time will increase as the population increas-
                            es? If they would reduce ice rates more people would rent the
                            ice. They need to do a "lemonade stand" analysis of rental prices
                            to maximize revenue. Good luck!
45   Jan 26, 2010 8:57 PM   none
                            It doesn't make sense to have everything moving west of the
46   Jan 26, 2010 9:02 PM
                            Why not playing in K-Rock?

                            Please close Center 70 instead, that arena is so inconvenient.

                                                                                   21 | P a g e  
                             it's time to look at the three pad proposal that the lions club put
                             forward two years ago....I think they were looking at land just
                             north of the startek on hwy 15.....this would be more ice for cen-
                             tral/ eastern kingston and i believe they also wanted a walking
47   Jan 26, 2010 9:17 PM    /jogging track surrounding the rinks......this has my vote......we
                             also need a good outdoor rink in the east end.....the location,
                             north west of st martha's school is terrible as it sits on an in-
                             cline....there are a lot better spots than this and i would volun-
                             teer to look after a better located outdoor rink....
                             I like the community-embeddedness of CAL and HH, which it
                             would be nice to maintain. As a resident of the east end, travel-
48   Jan 26, 2010 9:31 PM
                             ing all across down to Invista or C-70 for all games and practices
                             would be a draw-back.
49   Jan 26, 2010 10:36 PM   no comment
                             I think they should keep the CAL at the Harvey Gardens. When
                             you here CAL you automatically think Harold Harvey! Location is
                             good. Kingston Stands by there history/historical properties pret-
                             ty strongley and I think that Harold Harvey hold a strong value to
                             the players, past player who are still around with the new gener-
50   Jan 26, 2010 10:41 PM
                             ation and their famalies. I played in the CAL for 12 years, my
                             sons have been inrolled for 2 years and they love it as much as I
                             did. The Harold Harvey Gardens was built to serve the CAL and
                             that's what it has been doing for the last 60 years and thats what
                             it should keep doing
51   Jan 26, 2010 11:01 PM   No comment
                             Children from all over the city and surrounding areas in all direc-
                             tions participate with the CAL. It is certainly nice that the Invista
                             Centre is so wonderful, shiny and new, but it is also more or less
                             centrally located for most players whether they live in Battersea,
52   Jan 27, 2010 12:16 AM   Cat Woods, Gananoque or downtown and would be a very con-
                             venient place to get to being more or less right off of the hwy. I
                             think it is important to review where all of the CAL members are
                             coming from as I can't see the folks that live in Battersea or east
                             end of Kingston being thrilled to travel to Centre 70
53   Jan 27, 2010 12:44 AM   not a fan of 10 pm ice times
                             If CAL ends up at Centre 70 I will move my kids to KAMHA. I live
                             in the east end and if I have to travel to the west end regularly
                             for hockey I would rather play at Invista (right off the highway).
54   Jan 27, 2010 4:17 AM
                             To be fair the Cataraqui/Kinsmen Arenas are central to all who
                             belong to CAL, and I am sure one of the rinks could be renamed
                             Harold Harvey in order to keep up his good name.
                             Our first year with CAL. Very happy with the program and would
                             want the city to ensure their program is allowed to continue
55   Jan 27, 2010 11:33 AM
                             without loss of resources and they be given support for future

                                                                                     22 | P a g e  
                             The Harold Harvey Arena is the most centrally located ice in
                             terms of minimizing the total distance travelled for families. In
                             these days of environmental awareness, and global warming, it
                             seems that Harold Harvey is the most environmentally sensitive

                             If Centre 70 is chosen, it severely penalizes anyone living on the
                             east side of the city. Both from a time perspective, and from a
56   Jan 27, 2010 2:30 PM    money perspective - if driving distances are doubled, then the
                             cost of hockey/skating will go up significantly.

                             It is interesting that the city says we only need a certain amount
                             of ice time/space, and we have too much. Why is there no effort
                             (i.e., marketing) to get more people skating or playing hockey?
                             Does the city only pay lip service to the idea of encouraging,
                             promoting and developing fitness in our city? We have facilities -
                             let us now fill them! Shutting down arenas seems just wrong.
                             Too mamny good rinks already closed. Stop the political non-
57   Jan 27, 2010 3:38 PM
                             It is unfortunate that we will have to travel to the West end to
58   Jan 27, 2010 6:30 PM
                             play hockey.
59   Jan 27, 2010 10:25 PM   no comment
60   Jan 27, 2010 11:35 PM   No comments.
                             We as a family support the CAL executive final decision in this
                             trying situation, that the CAL did not create. When asking our 11
61   Jan 28, 2010 12:14 AM   year old son what his first choice would be, it wasn't the new
                             Invista or Krock, it was Harold Harvey, because that rink has the
                             best ice!!!
                             I think CAL should negotiate the terms with the city this year,
62   Jan 28, 2010 2:38 AM
                             rather than waiting until next year, when there will be no choice.
                             I think that having less 10pm times will keep the older players
63   Jan 28, 2010 2:38 AM
                             playing longer
64   Jan 28, 2010 1:44 PM    It seems unfair that the city can reneg on their deal with CAL
                             Please ensure the CAL continues to have it's own facility in order
65   Jan 28, 2010 7:29 PM    to continue to exist and provide awesome development oppor-
                             tunities for our young people of Kingston.
66   Jan 28, 2010 11:08 PM   I think that harold harvey should be closed.
                             My comment is specialy about ice time you guys saying they
                             have to much ring but the kid have only 2 hour of ice time week-
                             ley. I think the kid should have 1 hrs ice time practice a week, 1
                             hour and half for a game weekley or 2 game of 1 hour and half
67   Jan 29, 2010 2:02 AM    weekley,A game of 1 hour I think the kid spent more time seat
                             on bench then playing and it is even more worst for a goaltender.
                             I know you guy's will ignore my comment but I have to say it. I
                             would like to thank you to give me the opportunity to leave my
                             If it is so that the city will close Harold Harvey, it only makes
                             sense to try and make our home ice as central as possible for
68   Jan 29, 2010 12:22 PM   both East and West residents. It does not surprise me that the
                             city would give up potential income by keeping H.H open, as they
                             only seem keen on spending money and raising taxes!

                                                                                   23 | P a g e  
                             We strongly oppose the closing of Harold Harvey. The city needs
                             a rink relatively close to the downtown. HH should be renovated,
                             not closed.

                             If that is not an option, then we are faced with a choice between
                             three rinks on the edges of the city. The best facilities are at
69   Jan 29, 2010 5:55 PM
                             Invista, second best at Cataraqui (in our view). However, it is
                             important for the CAL to retain its identity, and we would under-
                             stand opting for a rink where the league was the main user --
                             hence Centre 70 might be attractive (though might it also be at
                             risk of closure in the not-too-distant future?). We need a rink
                             close to the downtown!
70   Jan 29, 2010 5:57 PM    na
71   Jan 29, 2010 8:46 PM    ?
                             Part of the reason we have chosen the CAL is that aside from 1-2
72   Jan 29, 2010 9:30 PM    game times all the games are at the same location and in the
                             same general time slot.
                             The city of Kingston is groing and so will it's hockey programs. To
73   Jan 29, 2010 11:34 PM   close an arena that is fully functional is not a good long term so-
                             Getting rid of 10pm games is a good thing. Although my son is in
                             Midget, he's still only 15 and gets up at 6 for the bus. As much as
74   Jan 30, 2010 12:56 AM
                             I like the new Invista, I think the CAL would get lost in there.
                             Using the Kinsmen/Cat would be more appropriate.
                             Since we reside in the east end the arenas close to the 401 are
                             almost as convenient as the Harold Harvey.
75   Jan 30, 2010 1:50 AM
76   Jan 30, 2010 1:51 AM    The city should not be able to back out on a deal
                             Reagardless of what icetime is agreed upon, I feel it is important
                             to retain the integrity of the CAL. Our family has been involved in
                             the CAL for about 14 years, playing house and PD and I have
                             coached several years as well. The bottom line is that the CAL is
77   Jan 30, 2010 3:03 AM
                             the best run league in the city, and is a special place. I feel it is
                             a shame that so much needs to be done to "save" our programs.
                             In part, due to the CAL's success, we are the envy of many. The
                             CAL is worth fighting for.
78   Jan 30, 2010 3:06 AM    no comment

                                                                                     24 | P a g e  
West and Southwest Kingston: 


How many years has (have) your child (children) participated in the CAL?
Number of years in program
Answer                                                                     more      Response
              1            2           3           4            5
Options                                                                   than 5      Count
Player   1    15          14           22          14          16           53           134
Player   2    4           5            11          7           3            13           43
Player   3    1           3            0           0           1            2             7
Player   4    0           0            0           0           0            0             0
Player   5    0           0            0           0           0            0             0

                                                               answered question            135
                                                                 skipped question             0

In what level(s) is(are) your child(children) playing in the CAL this season?
Answer                                                                               Response
             IP         Novice       Atom       Peewee       Bantam       Midget
Options                                                                               Count
Player   1    11          25          22           26          28           20           132
Player   2    5            7           9           5           5            7             38
Player   3    1            1           0           1           1            0             4
Player   4    0            0           0           0           0            0             0
Player   5    0            0           0           0           0            0             0

                                                               answered question            134
                                                                 skipped question             1

                                                                                    25 | P a g e  
Arena Choices:     

                      26 | P a g e  
Parents Comments: 
                                                                                 Response Count
Answer Options

answered question                                                                               131
skipped question                                                                                  4

Number   Response Date                                                                Response Text
                                As long as the spirit of the CAL continues on (i.e. house league,
1        Jan 23, 2010 6:48 PM   equal ice time, consistent practice time, PD teams, etc.), we
                                could live with any of the arena options.
                                Do not take the centre 70 rink option. It is a dump. I coach my
                                son's team and we use centre 70 for practices. It's worse than
2        Jan 23, 2010 6:52 PM
                                the harold harvey. I would not regrister my son with the cal if it
                                was being held at the centre 70.
                                I don't understand why Center 70 is under the list as it is in such
3        Jan 23, 2010 6:54 PM   a good shape. It is the only rink in the southwest of the city. I
                                would be happy to see it is better used.
4        Jan 23, 2010 6:59 PM   no comment
                                I do not believe it is in the City's best interest to be closing down
5        Jan 23, 2010 7:19 PM   a rink in the downtown area. The Harold Harvey is home for our
                                boys in their hockey lives and it would be missed dearly.
                                Centre 70 is the closest rink to us, but requires renovations - par-
                                ticularly to the dressing rooms which are far too small for any
                                age group over the age of about Atom. Closing the Harv is un-
                                fortunate but obviously necessary due to its age. However, if the
6        Jan 23, 2010 7:32 PM   City is going to lose an arena and ice time then the money
                                ploughed into Harold Harvey should be put to good use by ensur-
                                ing that the other aging rinks such as Centre 70 and the M-
                                Centre do not become like the Harv and require premature clo-
                                The CAL should continue to have exclusive use of the selected
                                home rink for the hockey program, unaffected by tournaments,
7        Jan 23, 2010 7:44 PM
                                Rep hockey or other ice users. This will enable the CAL to contin-
                                ue to provide regular practice and game times to its families.
8        Jan 23, 2010 7:46 PM   I sure hope Harvey doesn't close.
                                Just hoping CAL will be treated fairly with rinks compared to the
                                Greater Kingston Minor Hockey House League teams as well as it
9        Jan 23, 2010 8:08 PM
                                is my understanding that all their practices are at the INVISTA
                                I believe HH needs to close. It would be nice to have bigger ice
10       Jan 23, 2010 8:08 PM   to play and practice on. Memorial and Center 70, I believe, give
                                the best options for people located east and west.

                                                                                       27 | P a g e  
                             I feel that it is time to move out of the Harold Harvey Arena. I
                             understand the reasons behind wanting to stay, however, I be-
                             lieve that it would be in the best interest of the players if we
                             moved to any one of the other rinks. Although, my first choice is
                             the Invista Centre. Harold Harvey needs improvements that are
11   Jan 23, 2010 8:21 PM    probably expensive and would it really be fiscally responsible to
                             put a bandaid on the the problemswhen we can move to other
                             rinks that are newer and potentially don't have as many "issues".
                             I would also like to take this opportunity to thank you to all of the
                             volunteers and staff at CAL, you do a great job and it is really
                             Harold Harvey is too old to keep, and ice plant is an environmen-
12   Jan 23, 2010 8:32 PM
                             tal disaster waiting to happen
                             Harold Harvey is the home of the CAL! Having priority over this
                             facility has enabled the CAL to ensure regular practice/game and
                             development times. Life is busy and parents/participants need to
                             know their schedules in advance in order to take full advantage
                             of their opportunities. I have been a coach in the CAL for many
                             years and have seen the influx of player from other leagues be-
                             cause of the consistancy and organization of the CAL. Parents I
                             have talked to like the regular schedlued times the team have
                             been given and parents from other leaguesthat have come the
                             the CAL have commented they like that they know WELL in ad-
                             vance when games and practices are. If we lose The Harvey
                             Gardens will we still have the luxury of all the advanced planning
13   Jan 23, 2010 8:55 PM    and scheduling we are used too? I really like playing and newer
                             more modern facilities but I do not think it is worth giving up the
                             advantages we get from having the Harold Harvey open ( unless
                             the city can 100% assure we can have the same allocation and
                             flexibility for ALL of the CAL programs without compromise.

                             Yours in Hockey,

                             Richard Kuipers

                             St. John's Midget Coach

                             (please feel free to share my feelings)
14   Jan 23, 2010 9:07 PM    none
                             let the kids use the k rock center, than it would'nt be empty all
15   Jan 23, 2010 9:25 PM
                             the time
16   Jan 23, 2010 10:27 PM   We need Harold Harvey, my kids like going there.
                             It is time to let the Harold Harvey retire and put it to rest. A new
                             start at another rink is a good idea. Take the best offer you can
17   Jan 23, 2010 11:07 PM
                             get from the city before you are forced into something that you
                             do not want or will not work for the CAL.
                             The Harold Harvey has served it's purpose over the years for all
18   Jan 23, 2010 11:57 PM   of us and still serves us well..but it's time to put the old girl to

                                                                                     28 | P a g e  
                             Another hockey arena, although wonderfully new and shiny,
                             should not have been planned and built without properly promot-
                             ing the use of the new pad. How much time was spent, prior to
19   Jan 24, 2010 12:15 AM
                             going ahead with the building, figuring out how to maximize and
                             fill all of the potential ice time so that other arenas would not
                             have to be affected? It's sad.
                             The Invista Centre is a wonderful facility. The ice is great, there
20   Jan 24, 2010 12:20 AM   are ice sharpening services on location, and there is adequate
                             Having fewer 10 pm ice times is very attractive since both of our
                             players are in the midget age group. Good luck in your decision-
21   Jan 24, 2010 12:23 AM
                             making.....we'll miss the Harvey Gardens (but not the 10 pm
                             I truly appreciate the efforts of the Board and the Executive. The
22   Jan 24, 2010 12:25 AM
                             C.A.L. is a great organization. Thanks!
                             I think that the Cataraqui/Kinsmen arena would make a great
23   Jan 24, 2010 12:46 AM
                             replacement for the Harold Harvey.
                             Younger ages (up to 12 at least) should not have any late ie past
                             7 pm or before school ice times on school days. Harold Harvey is
24   Jan 24, 2010 12:48 AM   convenient for us location wise. I understand the history and the
                             family atmosphere at Harold Harvey but I also understand the
                             issues the city is facing.
                             Given the opportunity to play at the invista centre is very appeal-
                             ing to my family based on our location. It is a beautiful facility
                             that makes perfect sense if you take location out of the equation.
25   Jan 24, 2010 1:23 AM    I can understand how it isn't so appealing to other CAL families
                             that live in the city centre or the west end. But I think it would be
                             unwise to turn down acess to a significant quantity of ice at such
                             an ejoyable place to spend time like the invista centre.
26   Jan 24, 2010 1:39 AM    Time frames are the key. Noone wants late night games for kids.
                             OUr preference for Invista as the home rink is ease of access to
27   Jan 24, 2010 2:05 AM    the arena and parking, the newness of the space including the
                             dressing rooms and the warmth of the seating area.
                             Prefer the choices that have more Invista or Centre 70 time (or
28   Jan 24, 2010 2:19 AM    H.H if possible), with less Memorial Centre (due to our location in
                             the West end) Thank-you!
29   Jan 24, 2010 2:47 AM    Keep all currant ice pads!
                             I think that it is time to put the closed sign on Harvey Gar-
30   Jan 24, 2010 2:52 AM    dens.Everything must come to an end, and I think that this is the
                             The ice at C70 is the worst. At times there's major puddles or
31   Jan 24, 2010 3:07 AM    poor quality ice. Centre 70 should be closed. Leave Harold Har-
                             vey open and play more games at the Memorial Centre.
                             Being part of the military community I do not have much to say
                             on this matter. We have used the Harold Harvey arena for many
32   Jan 24, 2010 4:00 AM    games over the years and we have appreciated being part of the
                             CAL community. We feel it will be unfortunate if the HH arena
33   Jan 24, 2010 4:29 AM    none

                                                                                     29 | P a g e  
                             I think the Harold Harvey Arena (the Harvey Dome) should re-
                             main open for C.A.L. use (and others) because Harold Harvey is
                             a true community arena/centre, where families go to enjoy
                             watching their children/grandchildren learn and play the game of
                             hockey. It's also a place where parents, grandparents, aunts,
34   Jan 24, 2010 4:31 AM
                             uncles and friends come together to share in a true community
                             spirit. The Harold Harvey arena has more like a small town
                             community arena/centre feeling around it. It would be a shame
                             to close this wonderful place that has so many memories for so
                             many people.
                             As long as CAL is looked after I don't think playing at Harold Har-
35   Jan 24, 2010 5:56 AM
                             vey is required.
36   Jan 24, 2010 9:33 AM    none
37   Jan 24, 2010 12:48 PM   no comment at present
                             It would be a good idea to ask for ice times for tournaments.
                             With 6 ice pads available between Cataraqui and Invsta, revenue
38   Jan 24, 2010 12:52 PM
                             geneating tournaments could be held for both house league
                             teams as well as PD.
                             We are very sorry to lose Harold Harvey and believe that this will
                             be the final decision. To that end it is our preference to have In-
39   Jan 24, 2010 1:35 PM    vista as our home rink. It has plenty or parking is easy to get to
                             and is a state of the art facility. Since our city paid so much for
                             this arena lets use it!
                             When the (new) Invista Centre opened a couple of years ago, we
                             as a family went to the Grand Opening and what we saw was a
40   Jan 24, 2010 1:59 PM    sign that said "new home to CAL" . Why did we not have the In-
                             vista as the new home? Who knows but now is our chance, wel-
                             come to 2010 CAL its about time !
                             What would it take for the city to donate the Harvey Dome back
                             to the CAL and we could look at a one time fee like a condo to
                             keep a fund for repairs or renovations? Also, can businesses not
                             be asked to sponsor the CAL as in the past years?
41   Jan 24, 2010 2:00 PM
                             Just some thoughts.

                             Coach and a parent of a proud player of the CAL.
                             It is important to be objective in making the final decision. Some
42   Jan 24, 2010 2:07 PM    kids do not play hockey due to the cost. Make the decision that
                             will keep the cost for families down.
43   Jan 24, 2010 3:36 PM    g
44   Jan 24, 2010 3:45 PM    Thank you for your efforts to continue with the CAL program.
45   Jan 24, 2010 6:13 PM    no comments
                             Since the city seems intent on closing one ice surface in Kings-
                             ton, there's no question that HH is the leading candidate for clo-
                             sure. I don't have a strong emotional attachment to the Harvey,
                             so given a choice between the 3 remaining proposals, I think we
46   Jan 24, 2010 6:58 PM    should maximize our use of the Invista Center and make it our
                             home. It is head and shoulders the best facility in town.

                             If possible, I would like to see the CAL play the 2010/11 season
                             at the Harold Harvey, and give the old girl a proper sendoff. This

                                                                                   30 | P a g e  
                            is a big change for the league, and a transition period would like-
                            ly prove useful.

                            Finally, I like the fact that most of the other proposals reduce the
                            number of 10:00 pm gametimes and practices. This is currently
                            a significant issue (problem) for the Midget division.
                            Harvey Dome too old and too cold. Out with the old and in with
47   Jan 24, 2010 7:15 PM
                            the new.
                            The city needs to put money into Harold Harvey and keep this
                            rink active. The CAL BOD needs to make sure that the majority
48   Jan 24, 2010 7:27 PM
                            of the team parents are at the city coucil meeting that is up com-
                            ing in February.
                            In spite of a study to the contrary, the assertion by the city that
                            we have too many arenas right now is an unmitigated farce. For
                            some reason they include the K-Rock centre in the list of rinks
                            when the parking there is non-existant, accesibility to dressing
                            rooms is awful and the ice surface is the worst in the city.

                            Although their analysis apparently says otherwise, try booking an
49   Jan 24, 2010 7:59 PM   hour of ice in this city between 4 - 10pm during the week and
                            anytime after 7am and before 10pm on the weekends during the
                            hockey season. It is completely impossible.

                            I have kids in KAMHA, CAL and GKMHA so I am as informed as
                            anyone about availabilty of ice and when these teams are practic-
                            ing and playing league games. My suggestion to the city - leave
                            CAL and the Harold Harvey alone. We are doing just fine.
                            Since we are likely to register our son elsewhere, due to the con-
50   Jan 24, 2010 8:01 PM   tinuing team disparity and ack of concern thereof, what we would
                            like to see happen is perhaps inconsequential.
                            Harold Harvey is lost now anyway, let's get things sorted this
51   Jan 24, 2010 8:04 PM
                            year instead of next.
52   Jan 24, 2010 9:10 PM   no comment
                            Part of the charm of CAL is the smaller arena which provides a
                            community feel. ALthough the Invista is a lovely setting, it is
                            much harder to supervise young children and it lacks the com-
53   Jan 25, 2010 1:11 AM
                            munity charm that a rink like Harold Harvey or Center 70 has. If
                            Harold Harvey is no longer an option we would like to see CAL
                            operate form Center 70.
                            Be careful that the C.A.L. does not lose control of their ability to
                            control their own destiny. Having their own rink (Harvey Gar-
                            dens) was not ideal but at least they couldn't get squeezed out of
54   Jan 25, 2010 1:30 AM   ice time. My sense is that the KMHA would love to squeeze the
                            C.A.L. out of existence.

                            Keep up the good work.
55   Jan 25, 2010 1:53 AM   10 pm ice times are too late for youn adults.
                            I would be concerned about getting poor choices for ice times at
                            Invista - with KAMHA scooping all the good times
56   Jan 25, 2010 2:47 AM
                            Likewise at Cat/Kinsmen getting kicked out for tournaments

                                                                                   31 | P a g e  
                            Centre 70 is cold and smells bad

                            We still love the old barn!
                            I have two major concerns with switching arenas: (1) that the
                            cost of CAL hockey will go up even more than they have the past
                            couple of years (i.e. as city council looks to "solve" the revenue
57   Jan 25, 2010 4:18 AM
                            shortfall associated with the K-Rock Centre, etc., by gouging local
                            hockey families); and (2) the reasonable and regular hours for
                            CAL hockey will not continue.
58   Jan 25, 2010 1:47 PM   Thanks
                            We find it surprising that, with more ice time than the city re-
59   Jan 25, 2010 2:41 PM   quires, any child would have to have to play or practice at
                            10:00pm on a weekday.
                            Being involved with two different Hockey Associations in the City
                            of Kingston. The CAL has been a league in which you tend to
                            have more contact with executives of the league and more a per-
                            sonal touch to it. I think as growing with the times, the CAL can
60   Jan 25, 2010 2:48 PM
                            still keep that atmosphere if for instance the home rink was
                            moved to Cataracqui/Kinsmen facility. With the home office
                            space also being located there. It would just give the CAL a nice
                            facelift and maybe it is time to move on.
61   Jan 25, 2010 2:57 PM   .
                            When I was young, I played rep hockey, in the city, kind of wish
                            I didn't, because I've never experience it, what my son's been
                            through, with the CAL for the past 5 years, it's been nothing but
                            great and positive and I know when he's older, he'll remember
                            the friendship and success, he's had over the past years! Even-
                            tually, our time with the CAL is almost done, contact hockey is in
                            our future, but I'll never regret and strongly believe a young man
                            development goes through the CAL.

                              My Opinion, I'm a strong supporter of Centre 70, Memorial Cen-
                            tre, due to the fact, that they have the same atmosphere and
                            character, that the CAL and Harold Harvey, has delivered for 58
                            years. But, asked yourself, in the near future, 5 to 10 years from
                            now, will the city want to move us again? The answer is
62   Jan 25, 2010 4:23 PM   "yes"!.... We've all heard the rumors, that the city not done! So,
                            when they come, knocking on our door! Let's put ourselves in a
                            position that we can negotiate again!

                              You see, my dream, is for the CAL to get a brand new rink, an
                            actual twin pad, City Centrally located with Hwy access and close
                            to many restaurant stores and hotels...(across from the YMCA in
                            the old Kingston City Center location),....for all kids of our com-
                            munity, to help the city and continue the tradition of the Church
                            Athletic League for many years to come!

                              So I guess, we all have to make a choice? Is it, the beautiful
                            new Invista Rink, and blend in and loses a bit of ourselves, with
                            other organization or should we wait for the twin pads, a rink we
                            could call, our own again! .... and if that day comes, just look

                                                                                   32 | P a g e  
                             up.... in the stand, and you'll see me, watching my grandson,
                             with my son!

                             Good luck and Thanks!
                             It appears that City Hall is forcing the closure of Harold Harvey, if
                             it does my preference is Centre 70 since it keeps one rink as the
63   Jan 25, 2010 7:32 PM
                             focus and it appears to offer the amenities that the current loca-
                             tion has plus a newer facility.
                             My answers are based on the City's promise to honour ice times
64   Jan 25, 2010 11:52 PM
                             and provide a "home rink" free of schedule interuptions.
                             I believe any proposal which removes the league from an anti-
                             quated, poorly maintained, arena is in the best interest of the
                                    Off topic I believe there is a serious problem with a league
                             who's officials continually ignore the, which exist. Allowing some
                             to dominate their divisions while giving others no opportunity to
65   Jan 26, 2010 12:11 AM
                             be competetive, year after year. Look at your divisional stand-
                             ings- midget team (1) 22 and 4, team (2) 4 and 22, boy team
                             two is having a great time getting the crap beat out of them
                             every game with no end or help in sight. More important that a
                             few coaches are allowed to revel in the glory of their house
                             league domination!
66   Jan 26, 2010 12:13 AM   None
67   Jan 26, 2010 1:27 AM    Nothing to add
68   Jan 26, 2010 5:23 PM    prefer the modern facilities the Invista Center provides
                             We signed up for CAL due to the community spirit it promotes
                             and exudes. Ultimately, not being native Kingstonians, we are
                             not as familiar with all of the ice surfaces and their attendant
                             issues, and are not perhaps as tied to one particular rink as are
                             other families/users. We do, however, feel that many of the so-
69   Jan 26, 2010 6:34 PM
                             lutions to these types of problems are solved in very short-
                             sighted terms by the current city council, and it seems that
                             smaller leagues with less "buying power" often get the short end
                             of the stick. We want HH to stay, and would not be as happy
                             with another home rink as we are with this one.
70   Jan 26, 2010 7:19 PM    -
                             The Harold Harvey has served its time. We should move into an
                             arena that provides growth opportunity for the future generations
71   Jan 26, 2010 7:43 PM    of CAL players and parents. The CAL is not about the Harold
                             Harvey but more about the people that are involved in the pro-
                             I hope with the re-purposing of arenas, one (Centre 70) could be
72   Jan 26, 2010 7:53 PM
                             a permanent home to lacrosse!
73   Jan 26, 2010 7:53 PM    done
74   Jan 26, 2010 7:55 PM    Tough call..
75   Jan 26, 2010 7:58 PM    no additional comments
                             I struggle with answering this because I do not understand the
76   Jan 26, 2010 8:31 PM    long term vision of the CAL. What are the enrolment projec-
                             tions? What is the future of the PD program?

                                                                                     33 | P a g e  
                            Is it a fact or rumour that Centre 70 is having foundation issues.
                            If so, the City will be losing another rink. It is my understanding
                            that Harold Harvey has always been, and still is sound. Is the City
                            actually trying to get two rinks closed, by hiding the issues sur-
                            rounding Centre 70? Once the ice is permanently gone from Ha-
                            rold Harvey, will we start seeing reports about Centre 70 sinking?

                            Would it not be a better proposal to close Centre 70 since there
                            are already 6 Township rinks currently, plus Amherstview and
                            Piccadilly servicing the West end (I know they aren't under the
                            same "envelope", but they still service the West end of Kingston.

                            I remember the poll that they took during one of the City Meet-
                            ings as to when the last time any of the counsellors had been in
                            a rink, and there were almost NO people representing the City
                            who had been playing/watching/kids in programs, involving
                            hockey or the current rinks. That would be like myself (teacher)
                            being asked to make comprehensive decisions on the City's Hos-
                            pitals or roads.

                            We have dug ourselves into a massive hole with the 90 million
77   Jan 26, 2010 8:33 PM   that we have spent on these two buildings, leaving our City with
                            fewer rink options than before the building.

                            11 years ago, ice time (non-primetime) cost $54 + tax, now for
                            the same ice-time it is $140, how is this better for anyone?

                            If you walk into Harold Harvey, you can't help but be impressed.
                            The building is kept in perfect condition, it will be solid for 50
                            more years. I play at the KRC, and the dressing rooms are a dis-
                            aster. The shower heads don't work, and they used drywall to do
                            the showers. There are leaks everywhere and the bathrooms are
                            a disgrace. Opposing teams must think they are purposefully giv-
                            ing them foul quarters.

                            The Harold Harvey arena needs to stay open. The City has to
                            understand that CAL is the best thing in Kingston as far as hock-
                            ey is concerned absolutely! There are a few kids that play GK,
                            there are a few more kids that play Rep, but massive numbers of
                            kids are serviced fairly and appropriately by the CAL. Why are
                            uninformed and unknowledgeable people making these decisions
                            for The City of Kingston? It is a disgrace what the City is doing to
                            hockey in Kingston.
                            If the move is unavoidable, it makes sense to move the home-
78   Jan 26, 2010 8:38 PM
                            base to newest facility in the city.
                            Make the move now, delaying it another year makes no sence.
                            My fear is all the Kids living in the West end of town that will
79   Jan 26, 2010 8:52 PM
                            drive past Invista to get to Cataraqui will decide to play minor
                            hockey at the Invista for the KMHA.
                            I think it is a crime that the city wants to put out the cal from
80   Jan 26, 2010 8:54 PM   Harold Harvey. I also think counting the KROC centre as an eli-
                            gible ice rink is silly.

                                                                                   34 | P a g e  
81   Jan 26, 2010 8:58 PM    Do away with Harold Harvey.The congestion is terrible.
82   Jan 26, 2010 9:07 PM    No comments
                             I was just curious whether the change in home ice rink would
                             result in an increase in the CAL fees. I understand this can't be
83   Jan 26, 2010 9:18 PM
                             directed back to me, however maybe this can be addressed in
                             the next message to the parents.
                             I would like to note that CAL has the best HL program in the
                             Kingston area. Be carefull, Harold Harvey may be old but it pro-
84   Jan 26, 2010 9:29 PM
                             vided Cal with the flexibility to provide the best
                             time/ice/availability combination from a parent's perspective.
                             We have enjoyed the HH, and would like to keep it but under-
                             stand that's not possible.

                             the worst thing about the last few years is the 10pm games. To
                             late for kids, way to late for parents who work at 6am!
85   Jan 26, 2010 10:02 PM
                             Our son is finished at the end of this season, but we would vote
                             for the scenario with the fewest 10pm ice times.

                             Good luck and thank you to everyone involved with the CAL. It's
                             been a great experience for us.
                             We have no issues with the 2009/2010 ice times and arenas oth-
                             er than PD practices an Sunday afternoons
86   Jan 26, 2010 10:16 PM
                             Vs early mornib=ng when thwy would not conflict with other
                             CAL ice times
                             Speaking from an administrative perspective Cat/Kin offer staff &
                             volunteers a larger office, storage, the Gondola room for tourna-
                             ments, the upstairs meeting area, a canteen & a pro shop. It is
                             centrally located with 401 access, and access of two major
                             streets (Syd. & Gard.) easy to get to from all parts of the city.
                             Unfortunately it may not offer bus routes. The success of the KCC
87   Jan 26, 2010 10:22 PM   tournament each year, is due in part to the use of the Gondola
                             room for convenors to monitor the games, conveniently this
                             room could be used for Day of Champions to monitor games as
                             well, particularly if both ice pads are being used. The success of
                             a well functioning club relies on the success of the administrative
                             functions as well as the convenience of time of ice and location of
                             Thank you for asking for input from the CAL families, nice to
88   Jan 26, 2010 10:34 PM
                             have the opportunity to choose.
                             The CAL has outgrown the Harold Harvey Arena. Roughly one-
                             third of games & practices take place at other rinks through-out
                             the City. While people seem to be reluctant to have any associa-
                             tion with the Invista Centre, I have never heard anyone ask for
                             their playing times at the Invista Centre to be re-located at the
89   Jan 26, 2010 10:47 PM
                             Harold Harvey. It is just the opposite, players & their families
                             love it when their games are scheduled at the Invista. The
                             Kin/Cat option is the best business plan for both the CAL and the
                             City. Hopefully the Board will make a decision based on a sound
                             Business Plan, rather than a decision based on Emotion.

                                                                                   35 | P a g e  
90   Jan 26, 2010 11:31 PM   We feel Harold Harvey is past its prime.
                             The Invista maybe the nicest facility in Ontario I think the CAL
                             would only grow at the Invista. The Harold Harvey has been
                             wonderful for the Cal as I played all my own minor hockey there
91   Jan 26, 2010 11:43 PM
                             ,but the building has lived its life. Being offered the Invista
                             should not be over looked this may never be offered again. Lets
                             make it our new home for many years to come.
                             C70 our choice. It is the closet rink to Harold Harvey, has decent
                             sized rooms for the players, and for us it has a similar feel to it,
                             very much like HH. Did we mention we like C70.

                             The rinks at Cat/Kinsmen are fine. One of the biggest drawbacks
                             I see with the Cat/Kinsmen facilities are the size of the dressing
                             rooms, underneath the bleachers the change rooms bring back
                             Wally Elmer memories. They are very small rooms for the play-
                             ers, I can't believe that to-date, they haven't been improved. This
                             can't be the first comment on this topic.

                             Earlier CAL emails mentioned the possible opportunity for the
                             CAL to operate the canteen, no chance this can happen at the
92   Jan 27, 2010 12:33 AM   Invista. If the CAL can operate out of C70 exclusively (or almost
                             exclusively), similar to the way we presently operate out of HH,
                             this allows the best opportunity for the league to continue its
                             growth and to function in the same manner it has.

                             The CAL's consistent approach to scheduling games and practices
                             make it much easier for families trying to balance and juggle life
                             around hockey.

                             The M Centre is next on the chopping block, right after Queen's
                             gets their ice pad. So there is not much point moving there, as it
                             would be a temporary move only to have to go through this
                             process all over again in a few years. Just some humble opinions
                             not necessarily correct, but the way we see it. Thank you.
93   Jan 27, 2010 12:43 AM   No Comments
                             We like the CAL for it's structured game and practice times.
94   Jan 27, 2010 1:05 AM
                             We'd prefer to play more at the Invista
                             It is very unfortunate that the City of Kingston is closing the Ha-
                             rold Harvey arena. Having Harold Harvey as the home for the
                             CAL has been an asset to the community in Portsmouth Village.
                             It has been the perfect scenario for the CAL; having an arena
                             that is not shared with a multitude of other clubs/leagues...
95   Jan 27, 2010 1:08 AM
                             If the CAL does in fact have to move, we feel that C70 would be
                             the best fit for the CAL. It located in very close proximity to Ha-
                             rold Harvey, it has an upstairs viewing area for family/friends
                             during games/tournaments etc. and an existing canteen.
96   Jan 27, 2010 1:39 AM    My choices are mainly based on the number of 10pm ice times.
97   Jan 27, 2010 1:39 AM    none

                                                                                    36 | P a g e  
                              Most important thing to our family is that CAL will be able to con-
                              tinue to provide quality ice hockey instruction which seems to be
98    Jan 27, 2010 2:38 AM
                              looked after. Good luck with finding the best home available,
                              we'll continue to be supporters wherever it will be.
                              In a city that cherishes it's history--it seems difficult to fathom
                              how we can consider closing this arena.For so many reasons I
                              am opposed--I believe that they will get this closed---and then
                              the Memorial Centre and then what else. It doesn't address what
                              some of the real issues are thatcause some of this "unused ice"
                              which makes it appear there is surplus ice---like why it cost$ 100
                              more an hour to rent ice in Kingston, than at another new facili-
                              ty--twenty minutes up road {Napanee}.I agree with Marco Sivi-
                              lotti's assessment and comments and that maybee what really
99    Jan 27, 2010 6:34 AM    needs to be looked at is the people that hold the responsibility of
                              renting these arenas looks at new and innovative ways to get the
                              ice "booked"-----The areguements about old 'physical plant"
                              doesn't cut it for me because the Invista Centre is brand new and
                              their "physical plant" has already required work and the K Rock
                              centre is equally new and it's certainly had it's issues as well.
                              Parents complain about both early and late times now-----closing
                              arenas will only compress the different leagues schedules and if
                              parents had strong feelings about some of these undesireable
                              times before----Look Out!!!
                              The rink we decide on HAS to be served by public transport.
                              There are a number of players whose parents don't drive for
100   Jan 27, 2010 9:48 AM
                              whatever reason and these people can not be left out of hockey
                              due to the rink decision.
                              I chose Invista first only because I have a 2nd child (girl) who
101   Jan 27, 2010 4:22 PM    has the majority of her ice time at that arena, and I coach
                              another team that has all their ice time at the Invista Centre.
                              Love the Invista Centre, but geographically for my child, who
                              lives part time on Wolfe Island, it'd be easier for his father to get
102   Jan 27, 2010 4:42 PM
                              him to the Harold Harvey. Thanks for the opportunity to voice
                              our preference!
                              All three of my children scored their first goals at Harold Harvey.
                              As a tax payer I would rather see the city spend 1.2 Million to up
103   Jan 27, 2010 9:19 PM
                              grade a current intercity rink than spend 20 + Million on a new
                              facility which the city will need build eventually
                              It would make sense to use rinks that are close to the majority of
104   Jan 28, 2010 1:36 AM
                              families and that have adequate parking.
                              Will parents see an increase to player registration cost if our
105   Jan 28, 2010 12:43 PM   home rink is other than Harold Harvey? The ice rental at the
                              Invista centre is much more than at Harold Harvey!!!
106   Jan 28, 2010 2:39 PM    0
107   Jan 28, 2010 3:11 PM    I wish there was a way to keep the status quo
                              Harold Harvey and the Memorial Center are my top choices.
108   Jan 28, 2010 7:23 PM
                              Thanks for your commitment to the CAL:)
109   Jan 29, 2010 1:09 AM    none

                                                                                      37 | P a g e  
                              We have four boys. Since we live in Westwoods we have mi-
                              grated to the KAMHA over the last 2 years only because the IN-
                              VISTA and C70 are close to our home. Distance aside, we have
110   Jan 29, 2010 2:08 AM
                              always been very pleased with the CAL, and if the CAL moved to
                              the Invista/C70/Cat we would move all of them to the CAL next
                              I have spent over 20 years travelling to every rink in Kingston as
                              a player, coach and referee.

                              I do not like the idea of Kinsmen / Cataraqui since that has been
                              designated as the "Tournament Rinks" by the city to avoid every-
                              body being kicked out of the Invista Centre. Kinsmen is used for
                              speed skating and would be too big for CAL purposes. The dress-
                              ing rooms at Cataraqui are small and dirty.
111   Jan 29, 2010 3:13 AM
                              Centre 70 would be a good home base for the CAL with facilities
                              upstairs, large dressing rooms and a good sized ice surface (big-
                              ger than Harold Harvey, but not tooo big!). Centre 70 also has
                              very easy access along Front Road (5 minutes from Harold Har-
                              vey) and Days Road (easy access to Gardiners).

                              The Invista Centre is new and fancy, but it is already over-
                              crowded and the CAL would have evict someone else to find a
                              Im SOrry, but i think that its time to retire the harvey, i played
112   Jan 29, 2010 12:54 PM
                              there when there was no walls.
113   Jan 29, 2010 2:19 PM    no further comments
114   Jan 29, 2010 2:23 PM    no further comments
115   Jan 29, 2010 5:45 PM    Why can't the Memorial Center be our home rink?
                              Our preference is to have the majority of games at the Invista
116   Jan 29, 2010 5:46 PM
                              Centre or Cataraqui Arena.
117   Jan 29, 2010 5:56 PM    thank you for your help.
118   Jan 29, 2010 6:01 PM    close the harold harvey
119   Jan 29, 2010 6:01 PM    It is time to move into a more modern facility.
                              For our purposes we would actually rank H Harvey and C-70 as
120   Jan 29, 2010 6:32 PM
                              equal first choices.
                              Thank you for the opportunity to provide feedback. Harold Har-
121   Jan 29, 2010 6:32 PM    vey arena is an excellent venue and I am sad to hear it may
                              c70 would be a better choice if the heat worked in the arena!!!
122   Jan 29, 2010 6:42 PM    That is by far the coldest rink and just not suitable for grandpa-
                              rents to watch games.
123   Jan 29, 2010 7:15 PM    No comments at this time. More information would be required.
                              Why not as an organization try to purchase the Harold Harvey
                              Rink. Hopefully after 59 years the city could give you a good
                              deal. Run the place on your own and hire three to four rink at-
                              tendents. It would be exclusive to CAL and it could be rented out
124   Jan 29, 2010 8:08 PM
                              to others at a lower price then the city as their prices are ridicul-
                              ous. It makes sense that with all the teams (and more could be
                              added) that the CAL and Harold Harvey Arena would flourish. We
                              are a growing city and their is no need to get rid of a rink. I used

                                                                                      38 | P a g e  
                                     to live in a city in B.C. which was half the size and had three
                                     more arenas then Kingston go figure. Make the facilities shine
                                     and be cost effective and people will use them.
                                     Would prefer C70 as closer to home but don't like having 3 sepa-
125          Jan 29, 2010 9:04 PM    rate possible locations - we could get confused as to where we
                                     should be.
126          Jan 29, 2010 11:57 PM   no comments
127          Jan 30, 2010 12:11 AM   n/a
128          Jan 30, 2010 12:59 AM   cal has history.....change is not always best
                                     The Harold Harvey has served its purpose. Why not use other
129          Jan 30, 2010 1:12 AM    facilities? The only thing we don't know is how this will affect the
                                     registration costs.
                                     Prefer for CAL to continue @ Harold Harvey and Invista. Each
130          Jan 30, 2010 1:26 AM    offer locations that are reasonable for residents of any part of the
                                     It doesn't make sense to fund more ice arenas than we need -
                                     city should have studied this before building Invista. It makes
                                     sense to close the older, costlier ones; i.e. Harold Harvey. I'd ra-
131          Jan 30, 2010 4:04 AM
                                     ther watch a game at Invista because it is heated and newer.
                                     Harold Harvey has smelly changerooms & the seating area is too


Central & South­central (Including Wolfe Island): 

How many years has(have) your child(children) participated in the CAL?
Number of years in program
Answer                                                                           more        Response
                1           2           3              4             5
Options                                                                         than 5        Count
Player   1      14         26           17            16            12             39            124
Player   2      15         10           4             6             5              9             49
Player   3      0          2            1             0             0              2              5
Player   4      0          0            0             0             0              0              0
Player   5      0          0            0             0             0              1              1

                                                                    answered question               127
                                                                      skipped question                0



                                                                                            39 | P a g e  

In what level(s) is(are) your child(children) playing in the CAL this season?
Answer                                                                               Response
             IP         Novice       Atom       Peewee       Bantam       Midget
Options                                                                               Count
Player   1    21          18          26           19          19           22           125
Player   2    10          10           7           6           2            6             41
Player   3    0            1           0           1           0            0             2
Player   4    0            0           0           0           0            0             0
Player   5    0            0           0           0           0            0             0

                                                               answered question            127
                                                                 skipped question             0


Arena Choices: 


                                                                                    40 | P a g e  
Parents Comments: 


         Answer Options                                                            Response Count

        answered question                                                                        123
         skipped question                                                                          4

Number        Response Date                                                          Response Text
  1        Jan 23, 2010 6:35 PM   .
  2        Jan 23, 2010 6:37 PM   no
                                  Harold Harvey's location is key to being central to all individuals
                                  in the city and surrounding areas.
    3      Jan 23, 2010 6:57 PM
                                  All other locations will serve a burdon for transportation for many
                                  I selected with the goal of eliminating the 10 p ice time slots. The
    4      Jan 23, 2010 7:23 PM
                                  Harvey option is not practical based on one year.
                                  Harold Harvey could be sold to the CAL and have volunteers run
                                  it...I am sure through kids that have been part of Harold Harvey
                                  and parents who enjoy the "home" feeling there would be
                                  enough volunteers to keep it going. I am sure through donations
    5      Jan 23, 2010 7:36 PM
                                  we can have a neighbourhood rink. The city has to quite pushing
                                  city home owners to the former township. We live in the city for
                                  a reason, malls and other resources keep moving further away,
                                  don't take away our rink too
                                  A 100% move to the Memorial Centre makes the most sense to
                                  me, and it would prevent a situation where virtually all arenas are
                                  located in the townships. Since the Memorial Centre is already
    6      Jan 23, 2010 7:41 PM   incurring the largest losses financially, would it not make the
                                  most sense to move the "home ice" there and stop the bleeding.
                                  We've already invested and continue to invest in that property
                                  with not much return (unless you own a dog).
                                  Thank you for the opportunity to participate in the survey. Living
                                  on Wolfe island means it takes between 3.5 and 4 hours to play
                                  50mins of practice because of the ferry schedule. If we had to
                                  drive through to the west end through end of day traffic we could
                                  potentially add on another .5 to 1 hour (which at one point be-
    7      Jan 23, 2010 7:44 PM
                                  comes to much for the kids to manage on a week night). The
                                  downtown core is losing it's hockey avenues and it seems every-
                                  thing is moving to the west end. The cities move to foster these
                                  decisions is placing families living in the downtown or Wolfe Isl-
                                  and at a disadvantage.
    8      Jan 23, 2010 7:46 PM   none
                                  Harold Harvey and Memorial Centre ice need to be preserved for
    9      Jan 23, 2010 7:55 PM   the downtown residents. We HATE driving to Invista Centre-- we
                                  will likely drop out of hockey if the downtown centres are de-

                                                                                         41 | P a g e  

                                The CAL, should be looking into building their own arena and
    10   Jan 23, 2010 7:56 PM
                                have nothing to do with the city of Kingston.
                                For an individual like myself who is confined to a wheelchair and
    11   Jan 23, 2010 8:15 PM   doesn't drive, Harold Harvey is the only really viable option. Hav-
                                ing an area that is close enough to wheel down to is imperative.
                                I completely understand that 'letting go' of Harold Harvey will
                                include pain for some, (me included), I also believe it's time to
                                move on.
    12   Jan 23, 2010 8:17 PM
                                In the end, the children just want to play hockey. The amenities
                                and comfort of the parents ought to be taken into consideration,
                                all other things (office space, etc) being equal of course.
                                As we anticipate our son moving up to midget next year our first
                                concern is the lateness of the games during the week. Although
    13   Jan 23, 2010 8:35 PM   we have sentimental attachments to Harold Harvey and like the
                                closeness of the arena to our home, 10 pm game/practice times
                                are the deal breakers for us.
                                As a resident of Central Kingston I have concerns about the clos-
                                ing of facilities that serve the downtown community and feel
                                strongly that the City should continue to maintain facilities that
    14   Jan 23, 2010 8:38 PM
                                downtown residents can access. If council wants to maintain a
                                vibrant downtown then they have to maintain public facilities not
                                just restaurants and stores.
    15   Jan 23, 2010 9:09 PM   no comment
                                we take a city bus to hockey, so times when that is possible are
    16   Jan 23, 2010 9:32 PM
                                important to us.
                                Although I completely understand the concern about the ammo-
                                nia ice pad at HH, we need something local and invista and
                                kinsmen are not local pads. My first choice, which will not hap-
                                pen, would be to build a new rink on the existing HH location.
                                Failing that, I would see moving to the memorial centre or centre
    17   Jan 23, 2010 9:44 PM
                                70 as the closest options to us, geographically. We have children
                                involved in many different sports and driving to invista or kins-
                                men will be too significant a time constraint on us to continue
                                participating in hockey. Thank you for taking the time to do
                                create this survey.
                                I feel that the location of the Harold Harvey rink in central Kings-
                                ton is easily accessible to all users in the city. I firmly believe in
                                a community rink - a rink that is accessible to everyone and easi-
                                er to reach for those in the city central. The closing of Harold
                                Harvey means that those that are in the lower income bracket
                                will have to find a way to get to the rink which is much further
    18   Jan 23, 2010 9:52 PM   away, more costly to reach and more difficult to get to. Now that
                                they are closing Harold Harvey all but one ice pad in in the west
                                end of Kingston - I for one do not want to travel to the west end
                                for hockey every week. My hope is that an arrangement can be
                                made to secure Harold Harvey as the rink for CAL ( with appro-
                                priate repairs ) rather then moving to another location. If it must
                                move a downtown location is what I prefer.

                                                                                        42 | P a g e  
    19   Jan 23, 2010 10:06 PM   No comment
                                 I think the city should honour their contract and let us finish out
                                 with the Harold Harvey so as to allow time to close her out prop-
                                 erly. Once this is done then we could move to a different facility.
                                 I would prefer not to go to the Invista as then we are competing
                                 for the space with a lot of different teams and hockey organiza-
                                 tions. What if there is another study that indicates that next year
                                 the city would require more than the number of rinks we current-
    20   Jan 23, 2010 10:27 PM   ly have. Once we are moved then would we have to fight to en-
                                 sure the city maintains their contract with the CAL. The Harold
                                 Harvey services a lot of families in the south central area and it is
                                 a shame we can'thave a rink in this area and have to drive out to
                                 the west end to play. This will increase our carbon emissions
                                 somewhat. Regardless it is a shame the Harold Harvey is being
                                 lost. Three generations of my family have enjoyed hockey at this
                                 facility and it is too bad we are losing her.
                                 CAL @ Harold Harvey is a significant and integral part of the
    21   Jan 23, 2010 10:37 PM
                                 Kingston and Portsmouth communities - please keep it that way
                                 As long as CAL can exist as a hockey league, let's take advantage
    22   Jan 23, 2010 10:51 PM   of newer facilities. We will also get good exposure as an inde-
                                 pendent league!
                                 I hope that none of the ice time is weekday mornings, my boys
    23   Jan 23, 2010 10:58 PM   played for the KMHA and they used to get 6am on Wednesdays
                                 at the Memorial Center.
                                 The "ice use" figures have been manipulated over the past few
                                 years for ulterior motives. Prior to the Invista Ctr. and KRoc Ctr
                                 being built we had "insufficient ice hours". Now that they are
                                 open and managers face scrutiny of their business plan we have
                                 "too much ice available". Yet in the meantime TWO OTHER
                                 RINKS have been decommissioned (Jock Harty and Wally Elmer)
                                 and Cook Bros is relatively unused. The vast majority of availa-
                                 ble ice is now in the West End of the city and it is unfair to the
                                 city centre residents to have to travel that far. A better plan
                                 would be to leave Harold Harvey alone till the end of their lease
                                 and build something in conjunction with Queen's and the Me-
                                 morial Ctr revitalization Plan incorporating the CAL as a prime
    24   Jan 23, 2010 11:07 PM   tenant. The Invista Ctr should become the default tournament
                                 rink to showcase Kingston and attract sport tourism business to
                                 Kingston. We also have to work harder and better in business
                                 and municipal networking in helping organizations prepare and
                                 market their tournaments. We also have to work harder and be
                                 more flexible to market unused ice time. Better to have a dis-
                                 counted rate for a reliable tennant than to have it empty. Are we
                                 competative with other area municipal rinks? All community
                                 sport centres are subsidized to an extent for the betterment of
                                 the community and the health of its children. Is the Harold Har-
                                 vey being closed because of the shortfall of the business plan of
                                 the KRoc/Invista Ctr? While some at City Hall may say that it is
                                 not the case I would argue that it is.
                                 It is essential to maintain a downtown arena for at least some
    25   Jan 24, 2010 12:08 AM   games. It will also be important to ensure that if CAL loses Ha-
                                 rold Harvey they have a true home rink elsewhere.

                                                                                         43 | P a g e  
                                 One of the reasons we joined the CAL was due to the location of
    26   Jan 24, 2010 12:12 AM   the arena. I would like to see the home rink stay at Harold Har-
                                 It is important to keep a downtown arena. Due to Queen's cost
                                 over runs, it seems that the Memorial Centre has a tenant for
                                 more than the next few years until a new Queen's arena is built.
                                 I think that keeps the Memorial Centre booked.
    27   Jan 24, 2010 12:16 AM
                                 While Centre 70 is really not that far a drive from the Harvey
                                 Dome it is not downtown. Kingston needs a vibrant downtown,
                                 what I mean by this is more than just successful businesses
                                 around Princess Street and Bagot. It is important to the heart of
                                 the city.
                                 Do not let the city bully us into closing downtown hockey rinks.
                                 We have chosen to live downtown because we don't want to
                                 drive 20 minutes for our son to play hockey. If HH is no longer
                                 viable the city needs to PLAN to build a rink downtown. We need
    28   Jan 24, 2010 12:56 AM   to keep our downtown an attractive place to live for families as
                                 well as students. We also need to model for our children a life-
                                 style with less driving.

                                 Thank you.
                                 Would prefer to stay at the harold harvey. I realize it needs work
                                 but seems to be the one rink losing the least amount of mon-
                                 ey.The arena has atmosphere to it and is the last community rink
                                 left. We did not ask for all these new ice surfaces to be built. I
    29   Jan 24, 2010 1:26 AM
                                 have played in all these arenas and they all have worts but the
                                 most history is in H.H. My son has something to say- it is the first
                                 arena I ever played in and scored my first goal in please do not
                                 even consider closing it.
                                 The Harold Harvey needs to be closed due to environmental
                                 risks. It is also not fiscally responsible to keep the arena open.
                                 As a tax payer in the city of Kingston, I would like to have my
                                 child enjoy the newer arenas which offer better ice, better seat-
    30   Jan 24, 2010 2:00 AM    ing, canteen on a regular basis, parking, etc... that my tax dollars
                                 are going to build and support. On Sunday mornings, St. John's
                                 offer church services and parking at the Harold Harvey is at a
                                 premium. The area is less than safe in the evenings due to re-
                                 cent attacks by groups of teens.
                                 I would not consider signing my children up for hockey with the
    31   Jan 24, 2010 2:13 AM    CAL if I had to travel to the Invista centre of the Kinsmen arenas.
                                 Memorial Centre would be fine.
                                 We feel that the CAL should advocate strongly to maintain our
                                 home/neighbourhood rink at Harold Harvey. We also believe the
    32   Jan 24, 2010 3:11 AM
                                 CAL should have sent out an email to all parents about last Fri-
                                 day's meeting, which we did not hear about til after the event.
    33   Jan 24, 2010 3:47 AM    don't know the details so difficult to provide rational comments

                                                                                        44 | P a g e  
                                 I would like to see the necessary money spent on upgrading the
                                 Harold Harvey and maintaine the rink for CAL and community
                                 skating. With the demographics of users largely residing near the
                                 HH it makes no sense (within a sustainable city) to make people
                                 travel to another venue.

    34   Jan 24, 2010 3:56 AM    I have not ranked my preference for options as I believe HH is
                                 the only option

                                 The city needs downtown rinks and and I hope the HH board
                                 also sees it that way.

                                 It would be a shame to close the rink being one of the last of the
    35   Jan 24, 2010 4:27 AM
                                 central city locations.
    36   Jan 24, 2010 4:35 AM    Keep Harold Harvey!
                                 I would like to see the Memorial Centre being used more with
    37   Jan 24, 2010 1:40 PM    updated dressing rooms as aprt of the CAL rather than the op-
                                 tions provided.
                                 Living in the center area of Kingston, I cannot support any pro-
                                 posal that does not include the continuing use of either HH or
                                 Memorial. Ice is now centered in the west of the city. I recognize
                                 the fiscal restraints experienced by the city and recognise that
                                 HH is nearing the end of its life. Memorial should be the new
    38   Jan 24, 2010 1:53 PM    home. Lastly, the city has said that ice costs are not the reason
                                 for a decline usage. They state that this is a result in the de-
                                 crease in the # of users in the various programs. I would argue
                                 that the falling numbers are a direct result of the high cost of ice.
                                 (having a second child who figure skates, I feel this in my pock-
                                 etbook on a monthly basis)
                                 I am concerned that if we don't move forward now , the city will
    39   Jan 24, 2010 4:35 PM
                                 not be as accomodating in two years.
                                 My main concerns are costs and scheduling.

                                 Why doesn't city drop its prices to fill ice to their desired occu-
    40   Jan 24, 2010 6:14 PM    pancy.

                                 Also, when Queen's builds their own rink, that will free up ice
                                 around the city.
    41    Jan 24, 2010 7:45 PM   No comment
    42    Jan 24, 2010 7:52 PM   Thank you for the opportunity to provide input.
    43    Jan 24, 2010 7:54 PM   Thanks for your work on this
    44   Jan 24, 2010 10:09 PM   Do what is best
                                 I want to stay at the Harold Harvey.

                                 It is the most convenient and makes the most sense economical-
    45   Jan 24, 2010 10:12 PM   ly.

                                 I don't believe that we, the City of Kingston, will have extra ice
                                 time if we really try to sell it.

                                                                                          45 | P a g e  
                                 Hello Jean-Marc:

                                 Thought I'd throw my two cents in.

                                 The league needs to fight for the Harold Harvey to stay open for
                                 a variety of reasons...and I'd feel this way if I lived in the west,
                                 east, north or south, or on Wolfe Island even (God forbid!)

                                 The place is essential to the CAL and to the city's the
    46   Jan 25, 2010 12:02 AM   last of the youth rinks in the old city, and its closure reflects an
                                 undue west end focus of the parks and recreation department
                                 and city council.

                                 I maintain that a KEDCO plan for developing Kingston into a
                                 tournament destination is necessary to alleviate the nonsense
                                 that is "surplus ice." Lower the prices a bit, promote the city to
                                 tournament directors, use the Invista Centre (for the love of
                                 pete, use the "showcase facility" to showcase the city) and then
                                 see how much surplus ice there is.
                                 It would seem to make sense to use the Memorial Centre more
    47   Jan 25, 2010 2:48 AM    since it is the closest rink to Harold Harvey. Is there not an op-
                                 tion to have that as home ice?
                                 We have always liked Harold Harvey - it's close to us, part of the
                                 community and our son prefers the changing rooms at HH more
                                 than the 3 other arenas on the list, plus the upstairs view-
                                 ing/sitting area at HH is liked by parents, especially during prac-
    48   Jan 25, 2010 2:53 AM

                                 It seems obvious, that by not maintaining ice at Memorial Centre
                                 the city would achieve the biggest savings.
                                 Harold Harvey should remain open. It is a good central location
    49   Jan 25, 2010 3:49 AM    that not everyone must drive to. It also has a lot of
                                 surprised it is not being designated.
                                 moving out of the downtown area would add to my family drive
    50   Jan 25, 2010 5:41 AM    time and costsThis might put hockey out of reach so I am not in
                                 agreement to move out of harold harvey
                                 The CAL is small house league based organisation whose
                                 strength is that it is able to schedule icetime on a consistent
    51   Jan 25, 2010 12:34 PM
                                 weekly basis. This sort of arrangement is integral to families and
                                 should not be lost.
    52   Jan 25, 2010 1:22 PM    close the Memorial Center!
                                 CAL Harold Harvey, it is very central and we don't want to see it

    53   Jan 25, 2010 1:44 PM    Heavily used by our young Hockey Players. CAL is a great pro-
                                 gram, for our great kids.

    54   Jan 25, 2010 1:49 PM    No comments really.

                                                                                          46 | P a g e  
                                My son has been playing in the CAL for over 7 years and Harold
                                Harvey is part of what makes his hockey experience such a plea-
                                sant one. We live on Wolfe Island and aside from the fact that
                                we believe in the CAL program as a great learning and teaching
    55   Jan 25, 2010 2:28 PM
                                device for our son, the second reason we chose to enrol him in
                                CAL was that Harold Harvey is the home rink. It is convenient
                                for us and it is the CAL. This league would not be the same if it
                                were to move from the Harold Harvey.
                                Harold Harvey has been part of the idenity of the CAL for many
                                years. It is quite nostalgic to say that I now as a coach, am
                                teaching my son on the same ice that I once played on as a
                                child. Realize that HH has an aging infastrutcure yet am con-
                                cerned if it is closed it will never be able to be brought back on-
                                line. I have see how the city has looked after Cook's arena in the
    56   Jan 25, 2010 2:49 PM
                                past year and am concerened once ice needs increase in coming
                                years that the only option the CAL will have is to pay a premium
                                or to fight for equal ice time. I would be fine for any option as
                                long as the CAL can keeps its identity and we as an organization
                                can be competive and treated as equal to other Hockey organiza-
                                tions in this fair city. (including rep.Kamha. etc)
    57   Jan 25, 2010 3:06 PM   no comments
                                Finish out the remainder of the "deal" with the city, then choose
    58   Jan 25, 2010 3:19 PM
                                the Cat/Kinsmen proposal...
                                I have 4 children who have used all the ice facilities over the
                                years, and as a family our last choice is Harold Harvey for rea-
    59   Jan 25, 2010 3:23 PM
                                sons such as location, and lack of upgrades. If closing a rink
                                means it is a financially responsible decision, I support it.
                                Thank you for conducting this survey. The location of the rinks is
                                critically important to most families of players. Harold Harvey is a
    60   Jan 25, 2010 3:33 PM
                                far superior location for my family, and it would great if CAL
                                could continue to use it through the 2010-11 season.
                                keep HH open. If it closes i would prefere to go to the memorial
    61   Jan 25, 2010 3:35 PM   which was not even an option- even if we have to put a clause in
                                saying in 2 years we get the memorial as home base...
                                The Harold Harvey is a great "local community" rink, and I know
                                that a majority of the kids that play on my sons various teams all
                                live within striking distance to the Harold Harvey, it is one of the
    62   Jan 25, 2010 4:12 PM
                                attractions of the CAL, close proximity to the rink, regular, consis-
                                tent practice times at one arena and the majority of games close
    63   Jan 25, 2010 4:15 PM   No Comments
                                If the Harold Harvey has to be closed, the Memorial Centre
    64   Jan 25, 2010 5:02 PM
                                should be first in line, followed by invista
                                we would prefer a rink as close to home as possible. travelling to
    65   Jan 25, 2010 5:09 PM   the opposite end of town for house league hockey is a bit ex-
    66   Jan 25, 2010 5:27 PM   no comments

                                                                                        47 | P a g e  
                                Where is the part of the survey that expresses what was heard
                                loud and clear at the Town Hall on Thursday? How can we ex-
                                press that all of the proposals are antithetical to the interests of
                                this league, its history, its current players, and the future of recr-
                                eational/fun hockey in Kingston. The parents, almost without ex-
                                ception, do not want to close HH! The CAL should be a strong
                                advocate for community rinks, not just for its program, but for all
                                children in this city. There are very few venues for active
                                play/recreation by children in this city for the 5 months of the
                                year when outdoor playgrounds are unpleasant due to weather--
                                rinks get kids off the couch, away from their video
                                games/TV/books, playing with their peers in a positive and
                                healthy environment. This is what this league, and this city,
                                should be promoting loud and clear. Do not close another rink! If
                                there is "surplus ice" book it! Offer it at a discounted price (mar-
                                ginal cost of resurfacing must be low), promote it, add programs.
                                There is a strong demand for adult power skating, a "never ever"
                                hockey league, a "husband and wife" fun hockey league, tune up
                                clinics. Look at the sorts of things that ski hills or tennis and golf
                                clubs do to promote use... teaching clinics, bring in school child-
                                ren during the weekday once a week of skating for their gym
                                class, more public skating and shinny hockey by age/ability. The
                                CAL could lead this effort. My kids were turned away from the
                                CAL learn to skate program 4 years ago because we waited until
                                the September Leisure and Rec sign up day at the Olympic Har-
                                bour to register (how audacious) only to find out that it "filled"
    67   Jan 25, 2010 5:48 PM
                                sooner. "Surplus ice"? Come on. Book it and use it! I, like Brian
                                Begbie, find the city's argument that closing an arena will give
                                CAL better ice time (even without thinking of tournaments) as
                                ludicrous! Who are they kidding? How can you get rid of the
                                2200h hockey games by closing an arena? The logic is seriously
                                flawed. Similarly, using issues like "ammonia is toxic" (actually,
                                far less toxic than other refrigerants) or "the refrigeration plant
                                could explode at any moment and we wouldn't fix it" are scare-
                                mongering and meant to obfuscate the real issues. The city has
                                not invested in HH in many years, and CAL cannot because of the
                                uncertainty that this very threatened closure illustrates. This is an
                                election year, and our league should be advocating for our inter-
                                ests. Letting this slide, getting out of the contract a year early,
                                not making noise, is only in the interests of the city, not the
                                league. The multipad has only been open for a short time, and
                                we are not using the rinks to their potential. The spreadsheet
                                that estimates all CAL parents, combined, need to drive an addi-
                                tional c. 200,000 km if games were moved from HH to the other
                                arenas should also be considered. Using a typical "per km" cost
                                of $0.45 for fuel and wear and tear means that we can essential-
                                ly run HH for free with the cost savings of not having to drive out
                                to Invista or even Cat/Kin for games. And this does not include
                                the time cost of parents and their kids... sobering. Yet this cost is
                                distributed over all the parents over the season, so the additional
                                $100 or so per player is not captured. Forget the carbon foot-
                                print, this is straight from the wallet. And poor planning for the

                                                                                        48 | P a g e  
                                city, which has to develop and maintain the roads for this traffic.
                                So, to summarize, closing the one rink with the best ice quality,
                                central to all, where history lives, and used 100% by a league
                                that is growing by ?10% per year (1200 players this year, I think,
                                compared to 950 just a few years ago), and moving us to an un-
                                derused/mixed use rink far away from the city core is illogical,
                                insulting, environmentally offensive, and anathema to the health
                                of our children. Pardon the hyperbole, but I expected much more
                                from the Board of this league than picking the lesser of 4 evils.
                                One more point. Who in the CAL is working on the "Buy the Har-
                                vey Dome back from the city" scenario? Why not? We probably
                                can use/book it more efficiently, invest in updates, set aside a
                                contingency for repairs, and definitely promote the values and
                                vision that this city seems to lack... I think it would cost about
                                $150 per player or less for personnel and heating/refrigeration
                                costs, and we could keep the canteen open, shifting money from
                                Tim Hortons to our kids. The place is packed with parents from
                                Friday evening until Sunday. We usually are too time pressured
                                to pick up a Timmies on the way to the rink, and would definitely
                                prefer better coffee and treats than what we have available from
                                the vending machines. How much revenue would that generate?
                                Let's do some serious soul searching before rolling over on this
                                one. We need to consider that, even if we stave off closure for a
                                year, this issue will come back hard (in a nonelection year likely)
                                every few years until the city core is further gutted. An empty
                                decommissioned arena and underused baseball diamond. Right
                                downtown. What message does that send about Kingston and its
    68   Jan 25, 2010 6:17 PM   No comment.
                                My son has spent many happy years playing hockey and lacrosse
                                in various rinks in and around the City of Kingston. It really didn't
                                matter where my son played, be it the Wally, Cooks or the Invis-
                                ta....the ice pads did not determine whether my son enjoyed his
                                hockey. While I certainly understand the sentimentality of main-
                                taining the Harold Harvey for the CAL, I also understand the
    69   Jan 25, 2010 6:24 PM
                                need for change. I believe that the CAL, is a strong organization
                                and will flourish no matter what rink is considered "home".

                                I truly believe the friendships that are made, and the lessons that
                                are learned (happy and otherwise), are what is important in mi-
                                nor hockey.
                                Clearly the Harold Harvey is the most convenient for us, but we
    70   Jan 25, 2010 8:02 PM
                                are able to drive to any of these locations.
                                I believe maintaining a central (close to downtown) rink for kids'
                                hockey is important. There is already lots of rink space in the
    71   Jan 25, 2010 9:14 PM
                                west end which is great, but there needs to be a balance for
                                those living in the central part of town.

                                                                                        49 | P a g e  
                                 I believe it is very important for both the CAL board and the city
                                 of Kingston to use an integrated approach when making this de-
                                 cision. The question is not only where there is available ice time.
                                 This decision touches several important questions including envi-
                                 ronmental sustainability (a move from HH will mean significantly
                                 more driving time and energy consumption for CAL families, an
                                 illogical decision given Kingston's drive to become Ontario's most
                                 sustainable city), community vibrancy (I am strongly opposed to
                                 a decision which would mean closing a central neighbourhood
    72   Jan 25, 2010 10:39 PM
                                 rink and thus shunting people to the west end for services), her-
                                 itage and history (HH has been a place of community, family-
                                 centred hockey for 50+ years), and accessibility (a move to
                                 Cat/Kins or Invista is prohibitive for central families who rely on
                                 public transport). Thanks for this forum to share our views. I
                                 strongly believe that a central, neighbourhood-based, community
                                 hub rink like HH is worth investing in, and to close it down,
                                 though perhaps economically sensible in the short-term, would
                                 compromise community vibrancy in the long term.
                                 Harold Harvey serves everyone who lives downtown south of
                                 Princess very well. Short drive, perfectly fine ice surface and
    73   Jan 26, 2010 3:37 AM
                                 plenty of community spirit. It would make sense to use it as long
                                 as we can.
    74   Jan 26, 2010 12:27 PM   No comment
                                 For our family, neither the Centre 70 nor the Cat/Kinsmen rinks
                                 are an option, so I did not rate them. We do not own a car, and
                                 are dependent on public transit to get to hockey practice and
    75   Jan 26, 2010 2:43 PM
                                 It strikes me as ridiculous that the city would expect CAL to take
                                 10pm ice times in any of these proposals - games or practices
                                 until 11 at night is late even for our teenage players.
    76   Jan 26, 2010 4:18 PM    A tough decision in many aspects. Best of luck.
    77   Jan 26, 2010 7:56 PM    Thanks
                                 I don't like the idea of closing any of the arenas in Kingston. I
    78   Jan 26, 2010 7:57 PM
                                 grew up playing at all of them.
                                 We should attempt to keep the geographic location of the home
                                 arena as close to the downtown (east) as possible. If this is not
    79   Jan 26, 2010 7:59 PM
                                 possible then the core of activity should be shifted to invista
                                 which has the best and most up to date facilities.
    80   Jan 26, 2010 8:07 PM    prefer to stay at Harold Harvey as long as possible, thanks
                                 Thanks to everyone for all the work in making CAL a success.
    81   Jan 26, 2010 8:09 PM    Mostly, I would like to see HH arena fully renovated (though I
                                 know this is not on the table at this point)
    82   Jan 26, 2010 8:54 PM    Keep the downtown rinks.
    83   Jan 26, 2010 9:00 PM    no comment
                                 I think that the arenas should be left open, there are so many
                                 few arenas for us to skate on , that the ability to get into a regu-
                                 lar skating program ( Free Skating ) are offered to so few . To
    84   Jan 26, 2010 9:35 PM
                                 take an arena away from a neighbourhood that uses it, and ap-
                                 preciates it, would be a crime, the underpriveledged should have
                                 a chance to participate in a sport with out having it become to

                                                                                        50 | P a g e  
                                  expensive for a modest means family,

                                  In final . ALL RINKS should be kept up with upgrades and around
                                  for a long long time for future generations of skaters, Just ask
                                  Doug Gilmour C.A.L. Alum
                                  The city should be encouraged to keep ice time available for the
                                  CAL in the core of the city. Our family has very limited interest
                                  in the 20 min drive each way to the Invista centre. Why not
                                  open up the Krock centre to the CAL? We would likely be able to
    85    Jan 26, 2010 10:20 PM
                                  draw better crowds than the Frontenacs. I would rather subsid-
                                  ize the CAL instead of the Frontenacs. Any plan to move per-
                                  manently to the Invista centre would result in our family looking
                                  at other options than the CAL.
    86    Jan 26, 2010 10:23 PM   No comment at this time.
    87    Jan 26, 2010 11:18 PM   We support CAL
                                  If you move the CAL to the west end (ie Cat/Kinsmen or invista)
                                  what's to argue that KAMHA and CAL should not amgolmate as
                                  one, since both clubs will be basically operating out of the same
                                  arenas. Both organizations will be primarily in the west end of
    88    Jan 26, 2010 11:45 PM
                                  Kingston, KAMHA has reduced enrolment in its houseleague pro-
                                  grams, CAL had too much this year. Keeping CAL more central
                                  or downtown will keep enrollment up and also create an invisible
                                  separation between the two clubs.
                                  If there are to be 10 pm games, could they be on Friday and
    89    Jan 27, 2010 12:12 AM   Saturday nights? Much easier for the players when they don't
                                  have to get up early for school the next morning!
                                  We live within walking distance of Harold Harvey and actually do
                                  walk to practices and games sometimes. We feel very fortunate
                                  to have a rink in our "neighbourhood" and would be extremely
                                  sorry to see it closed. We decided years ago to pay more for our
    90    Jan 27, 2010 1:05 AM
                                  home (and pay higher taxes) but we felt the proximity to down-
                                  town, Queens and the rink were worth it. It is shortsighted of the
                                  city to keep moving facilities and commercial centers to the sub-
    91    Jan 27, 2010 1:17 AM    thanks for asking! we just want the CAL to keep a home.
                                  Invista is really inconvenient for anyone living outside of Bayridge
    92    Jan 27, 2010 1:50 AM
                                  Kinsmen rink would be the preferred second choice especially if
    93    Jan 27, 2010 2:09 AM
                                  the snack counter can be utilized as a fund raiser.
    94    Jan 27, 2010 2:35 AM    It would be preferable to maintain a central location for the CAL.
                                  We would like to stay at Harold Harvey for the remainder the
    95    Jan 27, 2010 2:47 AM
                                  the harvey gardens has a lot of great history but it is now time to
    96    Jan 27, 2010 3:01 AM
                                  move on.......
    97    Jan 27, 2010 11:26 AM   na
    98     Jan 27, 2010 3:06 PM   none
                                  Many families chose CAL based on proximity to home/ school and
    99    Jan 27, 2010 3:27 PM
                                  other commitments. Geography should be a major consideration.
                                  Harild Harvey is a valuable community rink-best efforts should be
    100   Jan 27, 2010 3:58 PM
                                  made to maintain/preserve that.

                                                                                         51 | P a g e  
                                  Our family does not have a car and essentially, if the C.A.L.'s
                                  main rink moves to any of the arenas in the west end, hockey is
                                  probably over for my son. We live city centre and need either
                                  the Harold Harvey or the Memorial Centre to be the main rink. I
    101   Jan 27, 2010 4:56 PM    think it is absurd to imagine all C.A.L. hockey would move to the
                                  west end. It is really unfair to children who live in the city and
                                  use public transit. And I'm not just speaking about my own situ-
                                  ation...what about the future? No community hockey in the city
                                  central? That's just simply ridiculous.
                                  As much as there is history at the Harold Harvey it is a drastically
    102   Jan 27, 2010 5:21 PM    cold arena, it needs alot of repairs and it is hard to watch a
                                  game there because you have posts in your way.
                                  Although the Harold Harvey arena is the closest to our home and
                                  the most convenient, as a taxpayer I support greater efficiency
    103   Jan 27, 2010 5:22 PM
                                  and ensuring the city's facilities are used maximally to minimize
                                  tax dollars over the whole system.
                                  I understand the city's need to optimize bookings and control
                                  their costs...but the evidence is frightfully clear regarding the
                                  state of children's health and lack of exercise...we must not for-
                                  get how important it is to keep them active and busy....if the city
                                  forces parents and children to run all over the city to use differ-
                                  ent rinks - and the parents end up becoming frustrated enough
                                  to take their child out of hockey as a result...we all loose...

                                  as a parent, the convenience of using a local rink with regular ice
                                  times truly is appreciated and it makes the whole experience bet-
    104   Jan 27, 2010 6:44 PM
                                  ter...please don't forget that this in planning, we need to facili-
                                  tate as many healthy exercise options as we can for our child-
                                  ren...if we don't, you can be sure we will pay much much more
                                  for the end results later and the kids will be all the poorer for it

                                  having said that, I will drive further as needed to get to the rink,
                                  but I know not everyone will for long.....

                                  food for thought...
    105   Jan 27, 2010 8:04 PM    Please keep HH open.
                                  There were a lot of good questions and points mentioned at the
    106   Jan 27, 2010 10:42 PM   Town Hall meeting which really sums it up that Harold Harvey
                                  must be maintained.
    107   Jan 28, 2010 1:04 AM    Keep Harold Harvey open!
                                  The city seems to be shortsighted in its desire to close the Harold
                                  Harvey rink. If there is so much surplus ice time, why are teams
                                  still playing games at 7am Saturday morning, and practicing at
                                  10pm weeknights? The city seems to be interpreting surplus ice
                                  time as all times throughout the day that ice is available, howev-
    108   Jan 28, 2010 3:22 AM    er, this is not a true estimation of a city's ice time needs, since I
                                  would guess, there is a much heavier demand for ice during
                                  prime time, beginning at 4pm and running till 10pm, than there is
                                  from 8am to 4pm. If there is how the city is analyzing its ice
                                  time needs, they are misjudging the information. I'd like to know
                                  which rinks are not being used from 4pm to 10pm Monday to

                                                                                          52 | P a g e  

                                  Harold Harvey is so convenient to us I have to say it is my first
                                  choice. Put in the west end and that potentially adds another 3
    109   Jan 28, 2010 4:29 AM
                                  to 4 hours to our weekly commitment to our kids hockey. My
                                  choice is totally self-serving but for a valid reason I think!
                                  city needs to leave the HH as the sole location for the leaugue,
                                  honour its past agreement and respect the history of sport in
    110   Jan 28, 2010 5:22 PM
                                  Kingston rather than having managers ingnore the hidstory and
                                  culture of sport to create their own visions and fiefdoms
                                  Harold Harvey is much more convenient than any of the other
    111   Jan 28, 2010 9:00 PM
                                  locations to us, living downtown.
                                  The Harvey has served the CAl and the city for many good years
                                  and it would be a shame to close it. The last study being ban-
                                  tered by the City about regarding the ice making capabilities DID
                                  NOT state that the system was going to fail, in fact it stated that
                                  the system was in good shape albeit an older type of system.
    112   Jan 28, 2010 10:39 PM
                                  The new systems at the Invista Centre are constantly requiring
                                  service and I am sure (I know) that the city is presently spending
                                  a lot more money maintaining this system as opposed to the
                                  present and perceived costs associated with the ice at the Harvey
                                  Gardens. Long Live the Harv
                                  As a Midget and PeeWee parent, I do not look forward to 10pm
    113   Jan 29, 2010 1:48 AM
                                  games and practices as they not only are they late
                                  I feel it is very worthwhile to keep rinks open in the central part
                                  of the city. I was impressed by research which showed that CAL
                                  players and their families would have to drive many thousands
                                  more kilometers to get to games and practices if the Harold Har-
    114   Jan 29, 2010 3:43 AM
                                  vey was to close. This is not good for familes or for the envi-
                                  ronment. I also can not believe that there could be a "excess"
                                  amount of ice available, when so many people are interested in
                                  hockey, family skating and other ice sports.
                                  Decision must be based on what facility best supports our brand
    115   Jan 29, 2010 5:45 PM
                                  'Family Friendly Hockey'.
                                  As much as I like the convenience of HH, the facility requires ma-
                                  jor overhaul to its ice plant. It's a HAZMAT site waiting to hap-
                                  pen. When the INVISTA Centre was built, HH was not part of the
    116   Jan 29, 2010 6:01 PM    original revenue projections for the City's rinks; it was assumed
                                  that the CAL would negotiate with the City for alternate arrange-
                                  ments vis-a-vis ice requirements for the program. We all knew
                                  this day would come. And now it has.
                                  The ranking of my choices was based on the Harold Harvey being
                                  closed regardless (this year or next). My concern is that to most,
                                  the Harold Harvey IS the CAL and that by losing this rink, the
                                  CAL is in risk of losing its identity. I do unfortunately forsee a
                                  rapid amalgamation into one larger "city" league fairly quickly
    117   Jan 29, 2010 6:36 PM
                                  with the closing of the Harold Harvey.

                                  The location and convenience of this rink cannot be overlooked
                                  but unfortuately, in my opinion, the size of the Harold Harvey is
                                  too small for anything but IP and novice (perhaps atom) and the

                                                                                        53 | P a g e  
                                  10:00 pm games are very unpopular to a majority of the older

                                  I chose Invista first, only for its ice surfaces and new building. In
                                  retaining the history of the CAL then keeping the Harold Harvey
                                  open is vital with C70 coming closest to retaining what we have.
                                  Tough choices either way.
    118   Jan 29, 2010 7:07 PM    none
                                  It is difficult for me to assess all the implications of these propos-
                                  als. However, from my perspective, it would be nice to keep Ha-
    119   Jan 30, 2010 12:44 AM
                                  rold Harvey going, for historical reasons and also because it is
                                  relatively close to where I live.
                                  Regardless of the communication and presentations and studies
                                  of the city, I simply do not believe the numbers that have been
                                  cooked up to satisfy someone's agenda. It is foolish to eliminate
                                  all "old" ice pads east of Sir John A. I expect that the Harvey-
                                  dome is doomed - but let us not forget that this conclusion is
                                  only due to someone's agenda, and justified by the same per-
                                  son(s)' calculations. There is no surplus ice. Only surplus expen-
    120   Jan 30, 2010 2:45 AM    sive ice. If city officials' salaries were linked to filling the arenas,
                                  they would be filled. I moved here from a small city of 12000
                                  with 3 (full) icepads, to Kingston with 7 icepads. The sign on the
                                  401 says 117000 people (I think). Do the math. When you re-
                                  move the facilities from the youth, you guarantee they will grow
                                  (and go) elsewhere. The centre of gravity of Kingston is not
                                  (yet) Gardiners Road. I do appreciate however, the opportunity
                                  to write my thoughts to the committee.
                                  I know the city is saying that they will NOT bump CAL program-
                                  ming but once they force the Harvey Dome to close, the city will
                                  do what it wants. There is no way that the city will be able to
                                  uphold this promise when the other hockey organizations aren't
                                  offered the same deal. I would be very leery of any promises. For
                                  us, the CAT/KINSMEN is the best option, however, all the local
                                  tournaments are played there so that the regular schedules
    121   Jan 30, 2010 3:24 AM
                                  aren't affect at the Invista. If CAL moves to CAT then the tour-
                                  naments would have to be bumped and then all the regular In-
                                  vista ice would be affect in order to hold the tournaments. I
                                  agree that the Invista should host the tournaments but it does
                                  impact a lot of scheduled ice there. A lot of people are going to
                                  get displaced no matter where CAL ends up. This isn't going to
                                  be easy in this dysfunctional town.
                                  I would like to see a rink in the central part of the city. Practices
    122   Jan 30, 2010 3:47 AM    should be at the same time and no late games for novice and
                                  atom players
    123   Jan 30, 2010 3:57 AM    No comments at this time.


                                                                                            54 | P a g e  
Choices as a function of Level of CAL Hockey: 


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    56 | P a g e  














    57 | P a g e  
Miscellaneous Results – Certain questions and their answers: 
If you chose Harold Harvey as your first choice, where do you live? 
From the figure below, we can easily see that the vast majority of those that voted from Harold Harvey 
as their first choice reside in the area bounded by Princess Street to the North, Lake Ontario to the 
South, Centennial Avenue to the West and the Causeway to the East. 


If you chose the Invista as your 1st choice, where do you live? 
From the figure on the next page we see that the majority of those that voted for Invista as their first 
choice reside in the west of city with a non‐insignificant number of votes coming from North of 401 and 
East of the Causeway. 


                                                                                             58 | P a g e  






If you chose Cataraqui/Kinsmen Arena as your first choice, where do you live? 
From the Figure below, we see that from those that chose Cataraqui/Kinsmen arena as their first choice, 
the majority of them reside either north of the 401 or East of the Causeway. 












                                                                                           59 | P a g e  
    •   For the most part, the 1st choices for people in this survey appear  to be the arenas that are 
        closest to where they live. 
            o Invista – larger concentration of votes coming from West, North of 401 and East of 
                        Ease of getting to the arena? 
            o Cataraqui‐Kinsmen – larger concentration from North of 401 and East of Causeway 
                        Ease of getting to the arena? 
            o Harold Harvey 
                        Majority come from the South Central Kingston.  Very few from other parts of 
                        the city. 



If you chose the Invista as being your first choice, what was your second choice? 














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If you chose the Harold Harvey as your first choice, what was your second choice? 






Not the Harvey as their 1st choice, what were their choices? 






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Not the Invista as their 1st choice, what were their choices? 
















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