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					Crystal Palace Park
Sports Working Group 14th February 2006

Produced by Nigel Westaway & Associates and The Environment Council

If you have any comments or queries regarding this transcription please contact: Name: Sarah Graham Direct Line: 020 7632 0140 E-mail: sarahg@envcouncil.org.uk

INTRODUCTORY NOTE The meeting was facilitated by Nigel Westaway & Associates and The Environment Council. This report is a typed transcript of the flipchart record written (in open view of all the participants) during the meeting.
To make the record more intelligible, some explanatory notes have since been added by the facilitator. These are shown in bold italics. All other wording is as agreed by participants on the day, apart from minor grammatical corrections and clarifications. Comments recorded are made by individuals and these views are not necessarily shared by other participants.

Any agreements reached by the whole group are boxed like this.
Because the record is inevitably cryptic in places, it is recommended that it should not be used to brief people who did not attend the meeting without a full explanation from a participant.

Attendees Peter Hore Sheila Hearsey Sarah Graham Norman Edgell Roger Frith James Budd Lee Hosking Iain Killingbeck Peter Austin Martin Hussey Keith Morgan Chris Snode Tony Wallace Nigel Westaway Glyn Durrant Brian Spicer Mick Firth Nick Thompson Richard Nixon Stu Paterson Tessa Jowell’s Office Judo The Environment Council LRASA/LFSR LDA KSS Design Group Arup Associates LDA Norwood Society L B Bromley L. Weightlifting Centre Crystal Palace Diving Institute GLL NWA British Cycling SE English Table Tennis Association London SLH Resident Athletic Club London Youth Games Surrey HA/ LYG Hockey Sports Injury Clinic

Agenda The following agenda was agreed for the meeting: Introductions, agenda review Actions from December General updates – dialogue membership, consultation report, CPFC Sports centre LBB Facilities mix Diving Seating Business plan Table tennis 11.00 Break Sports centre competition Further sports consultation? Dates, actions, etc 1.00 CLOSE 9.30

UPDATES
Consultation report being drafted. Working groups should receive next week PkWG report says that CPCA members can still attend MG meetings. Feel that committee of CPCA shouldn’t be able to but that individual (non committee) members should be able to attend Committee members can attend as members of the public but cannot speak Could get a statement from the Mayor beforehand Will give members of the public a limited opportunity to speak They wrote to withdraw from the process which we replied to Last PkWG meeting discussed individual membership o CPPAG was discussed as a replacement to Boycott UCI, but this needs to go through the MG Would like to encourage SpWG to attend MG meeting in March Think there should be a limit on how much people can speak on each topic, at MG CPFC have been talking to LDA about coming back to the park. Mayor has now written to the club rejecting this CPFC dome is now open. Will be open to public when not in use Will be programmes in the summer holidays for children CPFC don’t utilise the outside pitches Don’t know if will hear anything more from CPFC 5-a-side pitches at Linford Christie Stadium weren’t being used when seen. One multipurpose hockey pitch there too o Very high fences – stops people getting in and vandalising the pitches o Multi-markings aren’t a problem Bubble would go when new sports centre built o Community use is secondary o Would then lose this Want to get more park back for public use

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English Heritage Update
Discussions ongoing Held workshop last week that put forward options Have accepted that can’t refurbish it or use it for a museum, etc. Want to look at it for a low key use such as hockey pitches EH doesn’t want building demolished if possible to keep it Wouldn’t need outside 5-a-side then but wouldn’t be able to have hockey Indoor running track may be able to go in old building rather than new one Would landscape up to pool level Could end up with duplication of receptions, catering, etc. Will have implications for training as there may not be continuity of service Old pool would be filled and then floored Crystal Palace was important in 2012 bid Specific sports will book specific times to train at Crystal Palace Low key use wouldn’t have parking associated with it English Heritage don’t want to see pitches on north side of the axis This isn’t the formal English Heritage view yet Looking at keeping building but getting rid of associated costs This will have no effect on the new building but facilities may change slightly Don’t think the LDA Board would take English Heritage to a public inquiry LDA has to prove that there are no viable alternatives

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Will probably take a couple of weeks to work out viability Would like to see English Heritage at these meetings Proposal in ’97 was a much bigger scheme with more money Sport England won’t put money into the old sports centre now as doesn’t meet its requirements New facility would ensure continuity Paddy Pugh (?) was at meeting between LDA and English Heritage Would become a ‘shell’ with lighting Have produced a number of options for the old building 20th Century Society want to see it stay in its existing form Priority now is to get new sports centre asap How does the consultation fit into this? o Does English Heritage listen to what the public want? How is this Sports Centre different to the one in Crawley (K2)? Is it just because it’s in Crystal Palace? Will attempt to keep existing facilities running until 2012 If you use it for 5-a-side then it wouldn’t take up any more of the park LBB and English Heritage want pitches on south side of axis o Could lower pitches into a ‘bowl’ Can Mayor and GLA put pressure on English Heritage? o No authority over removal of listed buildings LDA is doing everything possible to get a new sports centre

Facilities Mix
No-one has approached LDA about this since last meeting Table Tennis working on having a room that can have tables up constantly o Need a separate dry centre to wet centre o Would want a regional centre at Crystal Palace o LDA not proposing a permanent Table Tennis facility o Most facilities are multi-purpose Sport England has found some funding for minority sports Cycling currently have a route/circuit o LDA hasn’t worked out a new route o Wouldn’t like it moved to a flat area o Would like to know what factors are important for the cyclists Have heard that Sport England won’t be involved in the management of the sports centre o LDA wants someone from Sport England to be involved Think that Sport England will disappear o They will probably become funding body only Losing facilities at Lilleshall too Sport England going community based South London Partnership now has appointed members o Could invite to this group o Positions are funded by Sport England o Want people to sit on Board Hockey: by 2012 Olympics won’t be on water-based pitches. FIH coming up with something between water-based and sand dressed Meeting to discuss Hockey for LYG. Will take it to Redbridge Haven’t said much about what will be here for LYG Have a need for double pitch facilities o Only 5 in London o Have lots of single pitches o Unlikely to have a double pitch here due to English Heritage and LBB views

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Would like to see Hockey Final here Trinity pitches not suitable for spectators Would like a single pitch but a double would be ideal Crystal Palace only place the LYG can be held all together

London Youth Games
LYG has been held here for 28 years May go to Stratford after 2012 Want to see facilities retained 15,000 people per day – won’t all be in stadium o LBB received funding to expand ….??? From 6 to 8 lanes Grand Prix would have to move for 2 years o Would have to demolish the seating o Would keep Jubilee Stand until new building finished o Could only be a year if lucky o Stratford would host Grand Prix from 2013 Would the track not be tested in 2011 No decisions on bar pitch yet

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Diving
Crystal Palace has always been high level diving Has been made a centre of excellence Regular user of Crystal Palace Have spent quite a lot on bringing in a coach, etc. Diving pools need a high roof – have provided examples of solutions around the world, i.e. Hamilton, New Zealand No mention of acrobatics Don’t want high-level dismissed Medium-level boards wouldn’t get used If Jubilee Stand goes then so would the acrobatics Need at least two pools in London with diving A lot of pools have the diving in the main pool around here Athletes won’t travel to Stratford Acrobatics would need to be self-contained Sport England has said that don’t need 10m boards o London area does Don’t have any revenue projections for a 10m board Don’t want Stratford facility to affect Crystal Palace Community representatives support diving at Crystal Palace Need to work out the finance of participation of school children

Seating
Amount seems very small PQQ doesn’t have the full detail, is just a taster o Technical pack will have more information No perceived need for more than 2 – 3,000 permanent seats Track stays the same Jubilee Stand is going as facilities can be replicated in sports centre National Indoor Hockey Finals have moved to Birmingham but regular events/national qualifiers could return if seating up to standard o 100 seat viewing gallery

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Supplementary seating would be more o Aquatics – 250 fixed – America uses bleachers o Diving - 50 Large bleachers need to be fixed to the wall A number of sports need about 1,000 seats Basketball looking for a new home o Need about 500 seats

Sports Centre Competition
Had about 110 for information from architects requests so far Big names have gone for it Will interview 10 Stakeholder panel for Tier 1 – Roger, Greg Smith, Jo Gibbons, Peter Martin, Robin Buckle Technical pack will be finalise on 14th April o 1st draft will be available at the end of February

Main Competition Stages A: Compliance document, invitations PQQ Longlisting – 10 interviewee organisations Shortlisting (6) Working Group reps to sit in Detailed briefing  technical brief to be finalise mid-April  WGs to review draft & comment to KSS Assessment of entries  WG reps to sit in Refinement of design  WGs to be involved? Sustainability included in pack Need to make a decision on diving within next few weeks GLA produced a booklet on design competition This is about selecting teams not about design Shortlisting will take 3 days Longlisting – group doesn’t need to be actively involved but if someone wants to go and look at information then they could Could sit in on interviews but not participate. ½ day discussion at end. Will see 10 leading score sheets. 13th April Discuss detailed brief at 5th April meeting Will have opportunity to refine facilities mix Timescales are not confidential Will produce a fact sheet timetable for MG Someone from this group should be on the Tier II panel Would probably need one person to represent Sports and Park Working Groups Observer from both groups for ‘Assessment of entries’

Closes 15/3/06

B: C:

D:

E:

July/August

F:

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Park Competition
Competition to select a designer Currently putting together a PQQ for the whole of the park 23rd March OJEU notice will go out Dialogue member on panel

Crystal Palace Rebuild
Proposal currently for a rebuild of Crystal Palace Masterplan will go forward without Crystal Palace rebuild included Mayor will reply to Ray GOL don’t see any need for current plan to be called in. Gateways are a local issue LDA is contacting people with other proposals English Heritage unlikely to support CP proposal

Sports Centre Business Plan
£100,000 operating surplus after year 3 after opening £1/2m a year too high for sinking fund Need to decide whether LDA input yearly or when needed Includes external pitches Cycling & cricket would be different – external to sports centre Excludes retention of old building Do external sports contribute revenue? o Cycling currently hire the track Sports science and injury would provide an income Currently focuses on major developed site Haven’t included revenue flow from it being used as a training camp Have included events, concerts, etc. In the long term this building (The Lodge) will go DDA work hasn’t been finalised yet

NEXT MEETINGS 5th April – 9.30 27th June – 9.30 ACTIONS Action Fencing contact to TEC Copy letter to CPFC to LBB (Colin) Write to LDA re: needs for cycling circuit Invite Christine Double to next SpWG Circulate business plan when finalised LDA to talk to CS & GLL re: diving Circulate Park PQQ Send input on facilities mix to James Who GW LDA Glyn TEC LDA RF LDA All When

End Feb Mid April 20/02/06 28/02/06 4/3/06


				
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