page 4 by xiaocuisanmin


									             1/20/2011 7:28 qaulity, RIBS4YOU             215 6/25/2008 4/1/2011
Suggestions for improving the AM ES coherence, and logic when debating on forums
Statewide smoking ban 4:54 PM ES
             2/3/2011                   SteveGuinn         11 3/10/2009 2/3/2011
The Unpolitical Thread For Political ED agedoldbeaver
             3/18/2010 12:13 AM Posters                  2446 4/4/2009 1/16/2011
Happy Birthday, Jim Arnold! PM ES
             2/1/2011 2:54              deborah1216        73 1/17/2011 10/27/2011
Another Pop 1/30/2011 5:59 PM ES wizard56
             Quiz                                         150 5/10/2008 3/10/2011
Wayne Lennington back8:31 PM ES
             3/7/2010                   max47369          926 5/18/2008 5/5/2011
Beech Grove 1/4/2011 1:38during meeting
             mayor resigns PM ES        rackon             99 6/21/2010 1/9/2011
Attention CDCPTR Members, Volunteers and Citizens!
             1/16/2011 5:32 PM ES agedoldbeaver          2446 4/4/2009 1/16/2011
Would Muncie and its citizens PM ES aurwrongagain          69 2/17/2010 4/20/2010
             3/8/2010 12:33 support downtown hotel with a indoor water park?
The Windmills are coming
             5/1/2010 11:08 PM ED jingoist                154 6/8/2008 11/10/2010
New Property Tax AssessmentsPM ESArrived-Property Tax 5627 5/8/2008 1/4/2012
             12/30/2010 6:35 Have bikerbabe              Assessment Help Day is Coming!
Why I support CDCPTR and itsPM ES bikerbabe
             1/20/2009 7:57 efforts                      5627 5/8/2008 1/4/2012
The Original Soup Group 3:03 PM ES agedoldbeaver
             12/31/2010                                  2446 4/4/2009 1/16/2011
The more things change, the more they TheMugWumps
             12/29/2010 9:31 PM ES stay the same.           8 10/14/2010 10/24/2011
The Hoosier Property Tax ReformED bikerbabe
             9/25/2010 7:32 PM Alliance                  5627 5/8/2008 1/4/2012
County Council Meeting Tuesday 11-23-10
             11/21/2010 8:49 AM ES bikerbabe             5627 5/8/2008 1/4/2012
Dennis Tyler:12/11/2010 1:17 PM ES you were always in my mind.3/14/2009 4/20/2011
              Personal Improvement, JimArnold
Why I support CDCPTR's 6:39 PM ES bikerbabe
             11/2/2008 efforts.                          5627 5/8/2008 1/4/2012
Christmas Decorations
             12/16/2010 1:55 AM ES nanafromindiana          7 3/21/2009 12/16/2010
Clarity: Avoid use of terms which can be interpreted differently by different readers. When we are talki
Several days ago Michelle Kinsey wrote an article about the proposed statewide smoking ban. She mentio goes nuttin'....have fun !
Happy Birthday to a very nice guy and a man I respect. Jim, you work hard for and on behalf of the comm
Larry Riley had a pop quiz in his column today, where he pointed out the many Local units of Governmen
In watching the alphabet group's video of last commissioner meeting I couldn't help notice that "retire or
Maybe Sharon can start a trend and do the same. We have a council meeting January 10. Maybe we will
The Citizens of Delaware County for Property Tax Repeal, Inc. has recently undergone a legal identity and
This is just a spit ball idea, not that much research into the idea, but here goes.Peter Dvorak is the owner
That’s right a major windmill farm is being proposed for eastern Delaware County (approx. along the Alb
By now, everyone should have received their 2010 property tax assessments in the mail.You have until J
I said this before and it bears repeating.In the beginning of this decade, I was hit with an outrageous asse
BB, feel free to move your posts here. No one owns this thread, except MSP.
I was at a Christmas party attended by several attorneys and the topic of McKinney and the forfeiture sca
The Hoosier Property Tax Reform Alliance announced a statewide ‘Bring It Home’ tour that will kick-off
It has been reported this meeting will set the tone for spending now and into the future. Some of the dec
Dennis Tyler: Personal Improvement, you were always in my mind.Often used by political pundits, dising
In the mid to late 90's living in the Royerton area, the residents were subjected to a gross injustice. Roye
Was wondering if anyone else has noticed we must have a Grinch in City Hall. Why isn't Muncie's Christ
ers. When we are talking to people who substantially agree with us we can use such terms as "rednecks" or "liberal
moking ban. She mentioned our own County ban and all but one of the exemptions granted. (She has not returned a

d on behalf of the community and I hope your day is filled with joy, laughter and fun. I love ya, Dude. http://www.yo
ocal units of Government in Delaware County that we have. He advocated doing away with the 12 Townships first an
elp notice that "retire or you go to jail" lennington is back on the county teet.
 ary 10. Maybe we will get a late Christmas present
gone a legal identity and name change. Effective January 1, 2011, the legal identity of the organization has been ame
 er Dvorak is the owner of the Hotel Roberts. He has been trying to sell that building for some time now. There are
y (approx. along the Albany Selma Pike) and with them all of the inherit problems which range from a major govern
he mail.You have until January 19th in which to appeal your assessment. Please keep in mind, if you appealed last ye
with an outrageous assessment on my home. As a lone taxpayer, I tried to get answers, and a fair assessment. it was

ey and the forfeiture scandal came up. One attorney, who was a republican, indicated that he had read an Indiana La
e’ tour that will kick-off in Muncie, Indiana!Wednesday, September 29th 10:30 am Hiatt Printing building, 1716 N. W
future. Some of the decisions may obligate the county well into the future.We do know the 2009 budget did not incl
 political pundits, disingenuous is defined as “lacking in candor”, or “withholding information”. To me it’s just a fanc
 a gross injustice. Royerton Sewer Project. None of the information regarding this project was forthcoming, and ind
hy isn't Muncie's Christmas decoration's up?
 s "rednecks" or "liberals" and feel reasonably sure that we will be understood. But in a debate, we are talking to pe
 (She has not returned an answer to my question as to why this was omitted)Private residences were exempted from

 a, Dude.
he 12 Townships first and then others(without saying which ones). Here is a another quiz Larry - Which local unit of

 anization has been amended to: The Citizens of Delaware County for Good Government, Inc. And we are very excited
me time now. There are literally hundreds of potential investors out there looking for ways to invest with secure retu
 ge from a major government subsidy just to build them to the intermitted and limited generation (too little or too mu
 d, if you appealed last year and won (or lost), you may still need to file every year.I just received word, there will be
a fair assessment. it was impossible. Not one of the elected officials or the assessor was much help. With no where

   had read an Indiana Lawyer article,
 ing building, 1716 N. Wheeling Ave.Muncie, IN
 009 budget did not include any new hires, but against their own ordinance, two additional highway department emp
  ”. To me it’s just a fancy way of saying that someone is being less than honest. Another nifty word is déjà vu which
was forthcoming, and indeed cost the residents millions and millions of dollars. Not one elected official raised a finge
ate, we are talking to people who substantially disagree with us and they are likely to put a different interpretation o
ces were exempted from the ban as well as all the other more popular concerns. I've found it interesting that it neve

rry - Which local unit of Government is the most efficient in Delaware County, with it's Personel costs at less than 10

 And we are very excited about 2011!! Thanks to you the property tax caps are permanently in place. Our organizati
o invest with secure returns for their money. The city of Muncie wants to revitalize their downtown and create new
tion (too little or too much wind). There are also problems with the attraction and killing of bird to noise as they rea
ved word, there will be another Property Tax Assessment Help Day.When: January 8th, 2010 (Saturday)Time: Regis
 h help. With no where to turn and no real knowledge of exactly what I needed to do, there was a feeling of frustrati

egal-world/PARAMS/article/25395, which indicated that McKinney was going into practice with a former Deputy Pro

 ghway department employees were hired right off the bat.We do know the county received $8.3 million dollars from
y word is déjà vu which is defined as “an impression of having seen or experienced something before”. For my next
 ed official raised a finger to help. It was the citizens of this area that banded together to remove all of the elected of
 fferent interpretation on such words.Evidence: Quoting an authority is not evidence. Quoting a majority opinion is n
 t interesting that it never had more interest. There is only one reason to exempt private homes.... Those in authority

 nel costs at less than 10% of it's total budget?! Which local unit of Government has demonstrated that a Governmen

 in place. Our organization has made a decision to tweak our identity with a name change. Effective the beginning of 2
wntown and create new jobs and generate revenue. So, Dvorak could partner with some investors and the city of Mu
 bird to noise as they reach their maximum RPM which is about 23 mph. Yes noise the same issue opponents of the p
 0 (Saturday)Time: Registration 12:30 to 1:00, Seminar begins promptly at 1:00 (followed by questions and answers,
was a feeling of frustration and helplessness. In 2007, when the tax bills hit our mailboxes, and the mortgage paymen

 ith a former Deputy Prosecutor to handle criminal cases. It occurred to the attorney that the article was probably re

 $8.3 million dollars from a tax levy and we do know the money was spent. We are also aware the county had, by Ind
 g before”. For my next trick I will use both words in a sentence.I found it disingenuous that two opinion letters in th
 ove all of the elected officials from office. We were still strapped with the hideous costs, nonetheless, it was the citiz
g a majority opinion is not evidence. Any argument that starts with, "According to Einstein..." is not based on objectiv
es.... Those in authority have the power to ban it, but are choosing not to do so at this time. The biggest reason for th

 ated that a Government Building Project can be done without any Tax increase, and planned in a way, that it could le

 ective the beginning of 2011 and beyond we will be legally recognized as “The Citizens of Delaware County for Good
estors and the city of Muncie. The current hotel could be expanded and to hold approximately 200 rooms. The inve
issue opponents of the proposed Desoto standby generation used to defeat that project. Noise is more of a problem
questions and answers, and personalized help sessions)Where:Kennedy Library Branch-McGalliard Rd-Muncie, INW
nd the mortgage payment increased, it was clear that something needed to be done. Asking the elected officials to be

 article was probably referring to Attorney Tom Malapit, who McKinney hired to handle civil forfeiture cases for De

 e the county had, by Indiana law, to have the money in a separate fund by the end of the fiscal year 2009. Also, the
two opinion letters in the same day proclaimed that “personal improvement was the last thing on his mind” when De
 etheless, it was the citizens, voting in a responsible government that helped get this County back on track.In the begi
is not based on objective evidence.Emotionalism: Avoid emotionally charged words--words that are likely to produce
 he biggest reason for the ban was to protect children. The commissioners chose not to go the route that would prot

 in a way, that it could legally avoid a Common Construction Wage Committee (thereby saving lots of Tax Dollars)?! W

 aware County for Good Government Inc". The alteration to the name is more all encompassing of what we've been d
 y 200 rooms. The investors could foot the bill for the construction of a 40,000, or more, square foot indoor water p
 se is more of a problem with wind turbines than it is with standby generating stations, as the turbine reach their ma
Galliard Rd-Muncie, INWhat to bring:It is very important that you bring a current property record card so that we ca
 e elected officials to be responsible and responsive to our needs. Asking for transparency and accountability on ho

 forfeiture cases for Delaware County. Even though McKinney faces discipline for his mishandling of Delaware Coun

al year 2009. Also, the county was not to be running in the red, which it was. President Todd Donati was not moved
g on his mind” when Dennis Tyler decided to run for Muncie Mayor shortly after securing the job as State Represen
ack on track.In the beginning of this decade, I was hit with an outrageous assessment on my home. As a lone taxpay
hat are likely to produce more heat than light. Certainly the racial, ethnic, or religious hate words have no place in r
e route that would protect many more children than those sitting in a restaurant for 30 minutes. Why? I asked, but g

g lots of Tax Dollars)?! Which local unit of Government holds the unconfirmed, yet unchallenged, record in the State

 ng of what we've been doing. We believe this change will make us even more effective, allow us to partner with othe
uare foot indoor water park in the current parking lot of the hotel. In exchange for signing over ownership, Dvorak
  turbine reach their maximum RPM the tips of the blades approach supersonic speed that if reached will cause the t
 cord card so that we can identify errors on your assessment. You should also bring photos of your home at angles
 nd accountability on how our hard earned tax dollars will be spent, is not being a bad citizen. I am more than thank

dling of Delaware County civil drug forfeitures, he could end up handling them for Jeff Arnold at Taxpayers expense

d Donati was not moved by the county's lack of funds and said the SBA would just be a slap on the wrist.We know th
e job as State Representative for District 34. Oh please, the withdrawal of Jim Mansfield from the race for Mayor, lef
home. As a lone taxpayer, I tried to get answers, and a fair assessment. it was impossible. Not one of the elected of
 ords have no place in rational debating. Likewise, avoid argumentum ad hominem. Personal attacks on your oppon
utes. Why? I asked, but got no answer. I can only assume that they knew it would never pass if residents thought that

 ged, record in the State for going 5 years in a row with a reduced overall Tax Rate from the previous year 2005-200

 us to partner with other groups and hopefully add to our membership. It in no way changes our focus on the task a
ver ownership, Dvorak will get a 5% interest in the new resort for a period of 5 years. After that period is up, Dvora
reached will cause the turbine to self destruct. What is so ironic about this project is one of its promoters was one o
of your home at angles that show the front, side, and rear elevations. You should also provide photos of any yard b
. I am more than thankful a group of non-partisan citizens have decided to take this task on. Because we have been

 d at Taxpayers expense. The more things change, the more they stay the same. I hope Jeff Arnold can make it throu

on the wrist.We know the county must meet pension obglibations.The Commissioners and County Council work hand
m the race for Mayor, left 214 Walnut without a candidate, and Dennis Tyler lost no time in seizing the opportunity. S
Not one of the elected officials or the assessor was much help. With no where to turn and no real knowledge of exac
 attacks on your opponent are an admission of intellectual bankruptcy. Causality: Avoid the blunder of asserting a ca
f residents thought that governmental authority might decide what was proper in their homes. This is disengenuous

previous year 2005-2009?! Which local unit of Government has initiated on it's own, 2 Consolidations - one being a

  our focus on the task at hand.
 that period is up, Dvorak's shares will go to investors or he will have the option to purchase them back. Plus, the cit
 ts promoters was one of the main opponents of the earlier Desoto project. Her only objection to this project is no t
de photos of any yard buildings, pools, or other improvements to the property, plus photographs and documentatio
  Because we have been raped enough, with no justice. It has to end.Thanks to the hard work and efforts of this grou

rnold can make it through the swearing in without breaking a campaign promise of no McKinney.

unty Council work hand in hand. Which is why the ideas of a $4 million dollar water park and a $24 million dollar ja
izing the opportunity. Since Republicans gained the majority at the State House, Dennis’ days as a key player in the
real knowledge of exactly what I needed to do, there was a feeling of frustration and helplessness. In 2007, when th
blunder of asserting a causal relationship with the popular fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc which declares that b
es. This is disengenuous government. Is the state doing the same thing? These ordinances and laws should be the co

olidations - one being a inter-department consolidation that has been highly successful - and another one, which is a

 them back. Plus, the city of Muncie would donate the "greenspace" for construction of a parking structure AND offe
on to this project is no turbines can be built on the farm she lives on.
aphs and documentation of any damages or other issues that detract from the value of the property. Make two copie
 and efforts of this group, I and many others have benefited and have learned that the Citizens do have a voice in loc


d a $24 million dollar jail are some of the scariest ideas to date. Tuesday, November 23, 2010 @ 9:00 am:Delaware C
s as a key player in the Democratic Majority was fading fast, and the pending redistricting effort under Republican c
sness. In 2007, when the tax bills hit our mailboxes, and the mortgage payment increased, it was clear that somethin
oc which declares that because some event A happened and immediately afterward event B happened that event A w
d laws should be the concern of both sides of this issue. It should not be about smoking, it should be about the limits

another one, which is a Government reorganization, that is on it's way to being completed?! The answer is the same

king structure AND offer the investors a tax abatement for 5 years. In exchange for this sacrifice by the city, the res

roperty. Make two copies of your appeal and all supporting documentation and have them date stamped when you t
ns do have a voice in local government. Want to know what Muncie's budget is? When the Government meetings are

0 @ 9:00 am:Delaware County Council MeetingCommissioners Court, Room 309County Building, Muncie, IN
ort under Republican control will not bode well for future runs in that district by Mr. Tyler. I don’t blame Dennis fo
was clear that something needed to be done. Asking the elected officials to be responsible and responsive to our nee
happened that event A was the cause of event B. (I knew someone whose car stalled on the way to work. She would
ould be about the limits and government and the lengths those in power will go to get what they want.Steve Guinn

The answer is the same for each of these questions - a Township (Mount Pleasant Township)!

rifice by the city, the resort will team up with the convention center and children's museum and offer "package" prici

ate stamped when you turn in your appeal, keeping one copy for your records.There is No Charge for the service.M
overnment meetings are held? Want to educated yourself on CCW? Interested in where your tax money is going? W

ing, Muncie, IN
I don’t blame Dennis for the strategic decision to run for Mayor, but the Democratic Party already had an excellent c
 d responsive to our needs. Asking for transparency and accountability on how our hard earned tax dollars will be s
way to work. She would get out and open the hood and slam it and then the car would start.Innuendo: Innuendo is s
hey want.Steve Guinn


nd offer "package" pricing for events at the convention center and children's museum. Plus, the city of Muncie will h

harge for the service.More information and forms can be found at the CDCPTR website.
r tax money is going? Want redundancy and government bureaucracy to end? Want to know your tax rate? Need a

ready had an excellent candidate in the person of Ralph Smith. Unfortunately 214 Walnut missed the boat and an op
rned tax dollars will be spent, is not being a bad citizen. I am more than thankful a group of non-partisan citizens ha
Innuendo: Innuendo is saying something pejorative about your opponent without coming right out and saying it but

the city of Muncie will hold 5% of company until the 5 years are up, without the option of purchasing later. The inve

w your tax rate? Need an exemption form for Assessment Appeal? Homestead exemption? Disabled?You can find th

 ssed the boat and an opportunity to mend fences when they refused to provide a level playing field for Jigger Smith
non-partisan citizens have decided to take this task on. Because we have been raped enough, with no justice. It has t
ht out and saying it but by making more or less veiled allusions to some circumstance, rumor, or popular belief.Be s

rchasing later. The investors will receive the land, hotel, and tax abatement, plus only 5 years of 90% ownership, th

isabled?You can find this an much more useful information by following the link at the end of this post.Mission State

ng field for Jigger Smith in his bid for Mayor, choosing instead to prolong the perennial battle between 214 Walnut a
 with no justice. It has to end.Thanks to the hard work and efforts of this group, I and many others have benefited a
r, or popular belief.Be sure of your facts. What is the source of your information? If it is a newspaper or a magazin

s of 90% ownership, then either 95% or 100% ownership. Studies have shown that these type of weather-proof re

f this post.Mission Statement:Non-Partisan, Grass Rootsorganization of the citizensof Delaware County for:1. Respon

e between 214 Walnut and the Team Democrats in spite of their lackluster track record of late. Wow, déjà vu!
others have benefited and have learned that the Citizens do have a voice in local government. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ewspaper or a magazine, are you sure that the information hasn't been "slanted" to agree with that publication's pol

ype of weather-proof resorts have an average return of 14-24% AND have an occupancy rate of 100% of weekends

are County for:1. Responsible Government Spending2. Responsible and Responsive Public Officials3. Repeal of Indian

e. Wow, déjà vu!
. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Citizens of Delaware County for
th that publication's political bias?Understand your opponents' arguments. It is good practice to argue with a friend

e of 100% of weekends and school breaks. This would be a 80-150 million dollar investment into the downtown are

ficials3. Repeal of Indiana Property Taxes is a good organization, a heal

of Delaware County for Property Tax Repeal have been intimately involved in local government for a considerable t
e to argue with a friend and take a position with which you do not agree. In this way you may discover some of the

t into the downtown area. This would generate huge amounts of investment by others PLUS it would create a substa

ood organization, a healthy organization. The citizens who make up this group are intelligent, hard working, and pas

ent for a considerable time now. Their members have attended nearly every local government meeting and function
ay discover some of the assumptions your opponents are making which will help you in the debate. Remember that

it would create a substantial amount of economic boom for the local businesses as those coming from out of town o

t, hard working, and passionate in what they do. We could have given up the ghost months if not years ago, our com

nt meeting and function being held from one day, week or month to the next. They have brought forth efforts to ove
 ebate. Remember that everybody thinks that his position is the right one, and everybody has his reasons for thinkin

ming from out of town or out of state would spend money at our local businesses. Think of the possibilities!!Is it pos

 not years ago, our commitment to the community and to CDCPTR just won't allow us to throw in the towel.Thank yo

ught forth efforts to oversee our fiscal issues with the County Board of Tax Adjustment and have initiated the efforts
s his reasons for thinking so.Do not impute ridiculous or malevolent ideas to your opponent. An example of this is t

he possibilities!!Is it possible to invest in such an idea? Would it be wise?

ow in the towel.Thank you, Hiatt and those silly volunteers!

have initiated the efforts towards modernization and reorganization. They have held candidate forums for the past t
 An example of this is the rhetorical statement, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" This imputes or presupposes

te forums for the past three election cycles and have shed new light on the a multitude of areas of substantial tax do
imputes or presupposes that your opponent has beaten his wife. Apply the scientific method.Cite relevant personal e

eas of substantial tax dollar waste. With their growing bipartisan involvement and knowledge of local and state gove
Cite relevant personal experience.Be polite.Organize your response. (Beginning, middle, end.)Treat people as individ

of local and state government the CDCPTR has decided its time to share their insight and opinion regarding those b
)Treat people as individuals. (Not everyone who is pro-choice is also anti-gun.)Cite sources for statistics and studies

inion regarding those best suited to make tough decisions and move our County forward in the right direction......htt
or statistics and studies used.Literacy works. Break posts into sentences and paragraphs.Read the post you are resp

the right direction......
ad the post you are responding to.Stay open to learning.x

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