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                 Writing Tools : The New Rules

     Turning “Who, What, Where, When, Why, How” On Its Head

       The next time you prepare to write a story, remember those six words,

                    but ask yourself six DIFFERENT questions :

1. WHO is watching me?

   a. Do I know who my audience is?

   b. Do I understand that it’s not a faceless mass of generic viewers, but real
      people, watching the news, usually one person at a time?

   c. Do I realize that newswriting is an intimate conversation with a single
      individual, in his own home?

   d. Can I talk to that individual as a friend, speak his language, respect his
      intelligence, and give him what he needs and expects from me?

   e. Or have I loaded down my scripts with jargon, “newspeak”, “coptalk”,
      “groaners” and other useless baggage?

2. WHAT must I tell that person, above all else?

   a. Have I grasped the essentials of the story, the grand themes, the key
      elements, the most important material my friend is waiting to hear ?

   b. Or have I cluttered it with minutiae that add nothing and won’t be

   c. Is my friend eager to hear how many gallons of water were poured on the
      warehouse fire, and the exact percentage, down to the third decimal, of the
      wage increase won by striking airline machinists?

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     d. Or does she want to know that an arsonist is on the loose and the planes will
        fly tomorrow?

3.   WHERE is the best sound and video?

     a. Have I taken the time to search for the strongest pictures to enhance my
        words, and the most powerful soundbites to add passion to my story?

     b. Do I understand that copy, audio and video are critical storytelling tools, each
        equally important, and each deserving my full attention?

     c. Or have I rushed, picking out “wallpaper” video and boilerplate sound, blunting
        the impact of the information I want to share?

4. WHEN will I have a better shot at telling this story?

TV news stories fly through the air, reach the viewer (we hope!), and disappear.
They’re not newspaper or website stories that can be slowly read, digested,
absorbed, pondered, re-read, scrolled up, scrolled down, or archived! In TV we get
one quick chance... so it has to be our best chance. Am I committed to making every
one of my stories the very best it can be, each and every time?

5. WHY do I care about this story?

     a. Am I making the effort to find something, anything, in each story, that pushes
        my buttons and gets me excited?

     b. Am I searching for the “whoa!” factor?

     c. The unique angle?

     d. The unexpected element?

(Remember, even the so-called “boring” stories can get you juiced, if you look hard
enough. And if you don’t get juiced, your writing will show it.)

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6. HOW do I make this story unforgettable?

   a. Am I using every tool at my disposal to focus a viewer’s attention and aid his

   b. Am I hitting him over the head in the lead graph with information he can’t
      afford to ignore?

   c. Am I communicating the enthusiasm of the unspoken, “invisible” lead – “Hey!
      You’ll never guess what just happened!!”

   d. Am I following the three-stage system -- setting up the story, telling the
      essence of it, and reinforcing at the end?

   e. Every one of these tools creates a psychological edge, an extra fighting
      chance to make an impact, and make sure the story is remembered.

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           Writing Tools: Before You Write A Word

     What You Need To Know About Your Audience and Yourself.

There’s a great old story about a traveler who sees a man and a donkey by the side
of the road. The man is whacking the donkey over the head with a two-by-four.

Visibly disturbed, the traveler asks, “Friend, why are you hitting that poor animal?”
The reply, “Because I want him to walk.”

“So, why don’t you just ask him to walk?” asks the traveler.

“Because first,” says the whacker, “you have to get his attention!”

     Guess what? That’s the newswriting business.

Every day, we go out there, looking for ways to take a bunch of facts and make them
so compelling, folks can’t help but watch. It’s not enough to just tell the story.

We have to whack people over the head and get their attention.

Call it Two-By-Four Journalism. We use words instead of wood, but the principle’s
the same. No point in talking when the listener is distracted, bored, or indifferent.

Our job is to craft stories with language and style powerful enough to make folks
stop, focus, absorb, retain, and (we hope) say “Hey! how about that!” That’s the kind
of writing that keeps folks watching, and makes us successful.

It’s also the kind of writing that’s quite rare. It doesn’t have to be.

No matter where your writing skills happen to be right now, you can dramatically
improve them, just by remembering two simple rules.

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Both deal with attitude, possibly the most important element in the writing process.
Burn these rules into your brain BEFORE YOU WRITE A SINGLE WORD, and
watch what happens.

Rule One :

News is a conversation.

If you think you’re “broadcasting the news to the viewers”, you’ve got it wrong.

You’re telling stories to one person. Disc jockeys have known this for decades.

They don’t speak to an “audience”. They talk to one human being at a time.

Same with TV news. Sure, thousands, maybe millions are watching, but they’re not
herded together in some stadium watching in unison.

They’re home, on the sofa, barely paying attention, watching BY THEMSELVES,
ONE BY ONE . What’s more, that one person isn’t just anybody.

Think about it. That person knows you. He hears from you every day. Your face and
voice are familiar to him. He trusts you to provide valuable information.

Does that description remind you of anyone? Of course it does.

That’s your FRIEND out there. Talk to him that way.

Make sure every word you write passes the “best friend” test: If it doesn’t sound like a
buddy talking to a buddy, something’s wrong.

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Rule Two :

A story has to matter to you,

before you can make it matter to someone else.

Simply put, you’ve got to get juiced about the stuff you’re cranking out, no matter how
routine the facts may seem on their face.

You’ve got to get so excited, so moved, so motivated by that half-point interest rate
hike, the warehouse fire downtown, or the budget bill in Congress, that you
absolutely can’t wait to get at your word processor, and type out the story with so
much energy that smoke comes out of your fingers (OK, skip the smoke, but you get
the idea).

Enthusiasm is infectious. It will spill over into your copy and viewers will feel it.

They’ll sense a special power in your stories, and they’ll pay attention.

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                  A1 & A2 & Paper Project – Final Test

                       Reading and give colour code

                       Base on News Writing Theory


                    Interview With Barack Obama;
                     Interview With Chris Van Hollen, Roy Blunt

                               Aired May 11, 2008 - 11:00 ET


WOLF BLITZER, HOST: This is LATE EDITION, the last word in Sunday talk.

OBAMA: We've got six more contests left. And then, you know, we have a lot of work to do to
bring the party together.

BLITZER: Barack Obama closes in on the Democratic nomination. The Illinois senator talks
about his candidacy and more in an interview.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZ.: Senators Obama and Clinton have very different ideas from
my own.

BLITZER: The presumptive Republican nominee John McCain presses ahead against his
Democratic opponents. We'll assess the race with McCain supporter Senator Joe Lieberman.

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, D-N.Y.: I want you to know that I will work my heart out
for you.

BLITZER: Is Hillary Clinton's campaign at the end of the line? Insight and analysis from three
of the best political team on television.

An economy in crisis. What is Congress doing to address the number one issue for voters?
Republican Congressman Roy Blunt and Democratic Congressman Chris Van Hollen weigh

The former U.S. commander in Iraq, Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez discusses the war
in Iraq and his new book, "Wiser in Battle: A Soldier's Story." Plus, perspective from Iraq's
ambassador to the United States, Samir Sumaidaie.

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AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

BLITZER: Ten years of LATE EDITION. We'll look back at my 1999 interview with former
vice president Al Gore. The first hour of LATE EDITION begins right now.


ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN in Washington, this is LATE EDITION with Wolf Blitzer.
BLITZER: It's 11:00 a.m. here in Washington, 8 a.m. in Los Angeles and 6 p.m. in Baghdad.
Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us for LATE

Barack Obama is edging closer and closer to the Democratic presidential nomination after an
impressive win in North Carolina and a narrow loss in Indiana. He's also gaining the backing
of even more super delegates. I spoke with him in his first interview since Tuesday's


BLITZER: Senator, welcome.

OBAMA: Good to see you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Here is the cover, "And the Winner Is..." That's a picture of you. What do you

OBAMA: Well, you know, I think -- I don't want to be jinxed. We've still got some work to do.

BLITZER: It's almost like you got the cover of "Sports Illustrated." Is that what you're -- you're
nervous about that?

OBAMA: Exactly. Exactly right.

We've got six more contests left. And then we've got a lot of work to do to bring the party
together. But, obviously, we felt very good about our win in North Carolina on Tuesday. I
think we ran a terrific campaign in Indiana. And it was a virtual tie. And, if you look at where
the race is at this point, I think we have seen voters across the country say they are ready for
change. They are feeling real anxiety about the economy.

And they have come to recognize that unless we change how Washington is done, it's going
to be very hard to deliver on a smarter energy policy. It's going to be hard to -- to provide
health care for people who need it or make college more affordable. And I think our
campaign has benefited from it. And, so, I'm looking forward to bringing this party together
and going after John McCain in the fall, and -- and, hopefully, getting this country on the right

BLITZER: It's been intense in the primaries. But you realize it's going to be much more
intense in the next chapter, in the next phase, given the differences between you and John
McCain. Are you ready for this next phase?

OBAMA: I'm actually looking forward to it, if we're successful. I don't want to get ahead of
myself here. Senator Clinton is a very formidable candidate. She is very heavily favored to
win West Virginia. She will win that by a big margin.

She's favored in Kentucky. We'll probably split the remaining contests. And, so, she's -- she's
going to be actively campaigning. If I'm fortunate enough to be the nominee, then I am
looking forward to the general election precisely because there is such a big, stark contrast...
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BLITZER: There are major differences between you and John McCain...

OBAMA: Exactly.

BLITZER: ... on a whole host of domestic issues...

OBAMA: Exactly.

BLITZER: ... and foreign policy issues. And I want to go through those right now.

OBAMA: Sure.

BLITZER: Already, some of his surrogates, some of his supporters, are suggesting you're not
ready to be commander in chief, president of the United States.

Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, said this. Listen to this.


anything during his life, in terms of legislation, or leading an enterprise, or making a business
work or a city work or a state work. He really has very little experience. And the presidency of
the United States is not an internship.


BLITZER: Wow. That's a strong statement.

OBAMA: Yes. Well, the contest didn't work out so well for Mitt Romney. I think he was
making those same arguments against John McCain, suggesting that John McCain, as a
senator, hadn't done what Mitt Romney had done. And, yet, here we are, and there Mitt
Romney is.

Look, when it comes to national security, I think that what people are looking for is good
judgment. They're looking for somebody who is going to be able to assess the very real risks
that are out there and deploy our forces, not just military, but diplomatic, political, economic,
cultural, in a way that makes the American people safe.

And whether it's my judgment on Iraq and recognizing that that was going to be a strategic
blunder, to my insistence that we need to talk not just to countries we like, but countries we
don't, to my assessment in terms of how we had over-invested in the Musharraf government
in Pakistan, and that was going to be setting us up for failure later on, I think I have
consistently displayed the kind of judgment that the American people are looking for in the
next president. BLITZER: I want -- I want to get to all of those national security, foreign policy
issues in a moment. But let's talk about some domestic issues.

You know they're going to paint you, the McCain camp, Republicans, as a classic tax-and-
spend liberal Democrat, that you're going to raise the taxes for the American people and just
spend money like there is no tomorrow when it comes to federal government programs.

Are you ready to handle that kind of assault?

OBAMA: Absolutely. But because think about what I am going to be running against: the
failed policies of the Bush administration, which John McCain wants to continue. I don't think
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there is anybody in this country who thinks that, right now, we have got a government that's
managed our domestic policies well.

And, so, we can talk about the slogans of tax and spend or fiscal conservatism, but the fact
of the matter is, this -- we have had an administration that's been profligate, that has raised
our national debt to a record level. We have seen a lack of shared prosperity. So, you've got
CEOs making more in a day than ordinary workers are making in a year, and it's the CEO
that's getting the tax break, instead of the workers.

BLITZER: He's going to say you're going to raise their taxes. What are you going to say?

OBAMA: I will raise CEO taxes. There is no doubt about it. If you are...

BLITZER: What about the average American...


OBAMA: If you are a CEO in this country, you will probably pay more taxes. They won't be
prohibitively high. They're -- you're going to be paying roughly what you paid in the '90s,
when CEOs were doing just fine.

BLITZER: So, you want to just eliminate the Bush tax cuts?

OBAMA: I want to eliminate the Bush tax cuts.

And what I have said is, I will institute a middle-class tax cut. So, if you're making $75,000, if
you're making $50,000 a year, you will see an extra $1,000 a year offsetting on your payroll

BLITZER: Define middle class.

OBAMA: Well, look, I think that the definitions are always a little bit rough, but let's -- let's just
take it this way. If you're making $100,000 a year or less, then you're pretty solidly middle
class, and you deserve relief right now, as opposed to paying higher taxes. On the other
hand, if you're making more than $100,000, and certainly if you're making more than
$200,000 to $250,000, then you're doing pretty well.

And it's the people who are making over $200,000, $250,000, who have benefited the most
and have actually seen -- have actually seen more and more of economic growth in this
country go in your direction.

And all -- all we're looking for here is a sense of balance, because it's my belief that this
country has always grown when it grows from the bottom up, when the average worker who
is putting in his time and trying to live out the American dream, when a nurse or a teacher,
she's able to support her family, then they spend money, businesses do well, and we
generate tax revenues that can pay for the common investments that we need.

And that's what's been lacking, a sense of shared sacrifice, as well as shared benefits from
the economy.

BLITZER: Because they're arguing already that you want to increase capital gains taxes, for
example, on investments, and stocks, and things like that.


BLITZER: A lot of middle-class people have those kinds of accounts. If they're...

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OBAMA: If they have, -- Wolf, if they have a 401(k), then they are going to see those taxes
deferred, and they're going to pay ordinary income when they finally cash out. So, that's a
phony argument. And this is something that you have seen the Republicans consistently do,
is they try to make this broad- based argument about, he's going to raise your taxes as a
cover for them eliminating taxes for people like myself and you, who can afford to pay a little
bit more in order to assure that we have got roads and bridges that are rebuilt, in order to
assure that Social Security is solvent, in order to make sure that kids who are struggling for
their American dream can actually go to college, in order to make sure that people aren't
going bankrupt just because somebody in their family gets sick.

OBAMA: You know, as I travel around the country, what I'm absolutely convinced of is that
people recognize that if only 1 percent of the population is doing well, when we've got wages
and incomes for the average worker actually going down during a period of economic
expansion, much less economic recession, that something's being mismanaged. And they
want a difference -- a different approach. And that's what we're going to be offering them.

And John McCain is essentially offering four more years of the same policies that got us into
this rut that we're in now.

BLITZER: You used to teach constitutional law. You know a lot about the Supreme Court,
and the next president of the United States will have an opportunity to nominate justices for
the Supreme Court. He gave a speech, McCain, this week saying he wants justices like
Samuel Alito and John Roberts, and he defined the kind of criteria he wants. So what would
be your criteria? OBAMA: Well, I think that my first criteria is to make sure that these are
people who are capable and competent, and that they are interpreting the law. And 95
percent of the time, you know, the law is so clear that it's just a matter of applying the law. I'm
not somebody who believes in a bunch of judicial law-making.

BLITZER: Are there members or justices right now upon whom you would model, you would
look at? Who do you like?

OBAMA: I think actually Justice Breyer, Justice Ginsburg are very sensible judges. I think
that Justice Souter, who is a Republican appointee, is a sensible judge.

What you're looking for is somebody who's going to apply the law where it's clear.

Now there's going to be those 5 percent of cases or 1 percent of cases where the law isn't
clear. And the judge then has to bring in his or her own perspectives, his ethics, his or her
moral bearings. And in those circumstances, what I do want is a judge who is sympathetic
enough to those who are on the outside, those who are vulnerable, those who are powerless,
those who can't have access to political power and as a consequence can't protect
themselves from being -- from being dealt with sometimes unfairly. That the courts become a
refuge for justice. That's been its historic role. That was its role in Brown versus Board of

I think a judge who is unsympathetic to the fact that in some cases, you know, we've got to
make sure that civil rights are protected, that we have got to make sure that civil liberties are
protected, because oftentimes there are pressures that are placed on politicians to want to
set civil liberties aside, especially at a time when we have had terrorist attacks. Making sure
that we maintain our separation of powers, so that we don't have a president who is taking
over more and more power.

I think those are all criteria by which I'd judge whether or not this is a good appointee.


BLITZER: And coming up in the next hour of "Late Edition," part two of my interview with
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Senator Barack Obama. You're going to find out why he called comments made by John
McCain, and I'm quoting now, "offensive" and "a smear" and why he thinks McCain may be,
quote, "losing his bearings."

Up next, two U.S. congressmen talk about which party has the best chance to win the White
House this November. We'll be right back.


BLITZER: Coming up in our next hour, the second part of my interview with Democratic
presidential frontrunner Barack Obama. He talks about how he'd handle the war in Iraq, other
international issues as well. But right now, we're talking politics and policy with two top U.S.
congressmen. Joining us, the man in charge of rounding up Republican votes in the House
of Representatives, the No. 2 Republican, the minority whip, Roy Blunt of Missouri, and the
man in charge of increasing Congress's Democratic majority, Democratic Congressional
Campaign Committee chairman, Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. Congressmen, both of you,
thanks very much for coming in.

Congressman Van Hollen, is it already a done deal, Obama versus McCain?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, it's only a done deal when one of our nominees either decides not to get


BLITZER: But effectively speaking?

VAN HOLLEN: Look, Obama is clearly the frontrunner here. But until it's finally over, it's not
over. And we'll just have to see how this plays out. But clearly, he's the frontrunner.

We need as the Democratic Party to begin to focus on the differences between the
Democratic position on issues and John McCain, who represents a third Bush term. And the
sooner we can get there, the better. The key right now...

BLITZER: It sounds like you're... VAN HOLLEN: ... is to have a positive tone -- is to have a
positive tone between the two Democratic candidates going into the next couple of weeks.

BLITZER: You haven't endorsed anybody, but is it time for Hillary Clinton to read the
handwriting on the wall?

VAN HOLLEN: That's a decision for her to make. And, you know, we'll have to see how this
goes forward. Again, obviously Obama has a lot of momentum right now. But until you have
a majority of the delegates, it's not over.

BLITZER: What do you think? Are you already assuming it's going to be McCain versus

BLUNT: I am assuming it's McCain versus Obama. Now, you know, I'm glad to see Mrs.
Clinton stay in this race and keep that discussion going. I think that discussion, frankly, has
been helpful for us. And what McCain is going to bring to the fall is somebody who really is
arguably the candidate who can bring change to Washington. He's the one person from
inside this town who nobody believes...


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BLITZER: You just heard Congressman Van Hollen say that he represents a third Bush term.
You know how unpopular the job approval numbers are right now.

BLUNT: I don't think anybody believes that. I think everybody does believe from his record
that here is somebody who has always been willing to complain about the way business was
done in Washington. And, frankly, people want to see that...

BLITZER: When it comes to domestic economic issues, what is the major difference between
President Bush's policies, what he wants to do, and what John McCain would do if he were

BLUNT: Well, I think what John McCain wants to do is continue these pro-growth tax policies
that our friends on the other side have been talking...


BLITZER: But that's what President Bush wants to do too.

BLUNT: And there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with that.

BLITZER: So it would be in effect a third Bush term when it came to pro-growth tax policies?

BLUNT: It would be. I think it would be. And I think that's a good thing. You can't go out in the
country anywhere and find people who believe that doubling the capital gains rate is a good
thing, that raising the highest rate on every small business in America is a good thing, that
eliminating those bottom brackets, that mean that people at the lower levels of tax pay less
taxes than they would otherwise. In fact, I think one of the reasons that the economy has
slowed down the way it has is the fact that there's great uncertainty about how those tax
policies move forward.

BLITZER: Do you want to respond to that?

VAN HOLLEN: Sure. Look, I mean, the Bush economic policies have helped drive this
economy into a ditch. The economy has lost $260,000 in the first four months of this year.
And John McCain...

BLITZER: 260,000 jobs.

VAN HOLLEN: Jobs in the first four months. And John McCain does represent a continuation
of the Bush economic policy, as Roy just acknowledged. And the fact of the matter is, people
are hurting. The one thing this president doesn't understand and John McCain doesn't
understand is the economic squeeze the families around the country are feeling.

And when it comes to Iraq, again, this is a continuation of the Bush policy.

So on the two biggest issues on the agenda today, the war in Iraq and the economy, he
represents a continuation of George Bush.

BLITZER: Do you want to say anything? Before we move on, do you want to respond to

BLUNT: I think what Americans are tired of is business as usual in Washington. They see
John McCain as somebody who wants to change that. He has shown that as a member of
the Senate. He's shown that as a leader in the country. And he'll be a positive force for

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BLITZER: Here's what Newt Gingrich, the former House speaker Republican wrote in Human
Events, a conservative publication on Tuesday. "No Republican should kid themselves. It's
time to face up to a stark choice. Without change, we could face a catastrophic election this
fall. Without change, the Republican Party in the House could revert to the permanent
minority status it had from 1930 to 1994". That is a pretty gloomy assessment from Newt

BLUNT: It would be, if that was the assessment. I think Newt is absolutely right in the idea
that real change requires real change. We're going to be talking in the next few weeks about
the things we want to do to bring change to the country.

BLITZER: But it sounds like on the two biggest issues, the economy and the war in Iraq,
McCain wants to continue the Bush policy.

BLUNT: You know, I think McCain will make the argument that he argued against policies
that the Defense Department pursued, the Rumsfeld policies that have not produced the kind
of results maybe that the Petraeus policies have. Americans clearly are tired of what they
saw happening in Iraq. But they don't want to lose. They don't want to leave there with a
worse situation in the world than we would have if we leave there with a stable Iraq. I think
John McCain is going to be able to advance his position there in a way that the American
people say, you know, that's exactly the kind of result I want to see happen in Iraq.

BLITZER: He was critical of the way the Rumsfeld Pentagon conducted a large part of this

VAN HOLLEN: Look, this is one of the few times I agree with Newt Gingrich. The Republican
Party has become the party of no, veto and the status quo. And now they're going to try to
run as a party of change. We just saw on the House floor this week exactly why they're in so
much trouble. We had a bill to try and finally deal with the housing crisis that Americans are
experiencing. The Bush administration rushed to bail out Bear Stearns, a Wall Street firm.
They worked around the clock over a weekend. Yet, they're opposing legislation that helps
stabilize the housing market. When it comes to the war in Iraq, they spent $700 billion to date
and they're unwilling to spend a little bit to help our GIs, men and women fighting the war on
education issues. This is the problem they've got.

BLITZER: Stand by. We're going to pick up those points and let you respond, Congressman
Blunt. Hold on for a second. We'll take a quick break. When we come back, we'll discuss
what can Congress do to help the struggling U.S. economy right now? LATE EDITION
continues right after this.


BLITZER: Welcome back to LATE EDITION, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. We're talking
with the House Minority Whip Roy Blunt of Missouri and the chairman of the Democratic
Congressional Campaign Committee, Chris Van Hollen of Maryland.

We were talking about the economy, what the House of Representatives right now could do
to help a lot of ailing Americans out there. In our latest CNN/Opinion Research Corporation
poll, we asked whether the tax rebate policy, the stimulus package that was quickly approved
by the president and Congress, the checks that are going out right now to millions of
Americans is enough. Thirteen percent says that policy does enough, 3 percent say it does
too much, 82 percent though, 82 percent of the American people say it's not enough. They
want more. What else are you willing to do?

BLUNT: Well the single big issue is gas prices right now. We need to do something about
gas prices.

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BLITZER: Like, what do you want to do?

BLUNT: Well, what I'd like to do is see us do something about both the strategic petroleum
reserve, filling that --

BLITZER: Stop filling it?

BLUNT: I think we should stop filling it. The White House doesn't agree with that position. But
that's one thing that would have impact at the pump.

BLITZER: Because it would empty supply and presumably reduce price.

BLUNT: And really are three things the federal government can do to have gas impact right
now. One is the SPRO. Two is either some kind of a gas tax rebate or a gas tax holiday.
We're proposing that that be funded with whatever money would have been spent on
congressional earmark this is year, that that money goes into highway trust fund to replace
that. And three, is the effort that the Treasury Department is now making to stabilize the
dollar. A lot of the speculation in oil, the decline of the dollar, those things have an impact on
gas prices.

That's the biggest single thing Americans care about. We've been asking the majority for
three weeks now to bring some legislation to the floor that would do something about gas
prices. Two years ago, April 2006, Nancy Pelosi said put -- if the Democrats are given the
majority control in the Congress, we have a common sense plan to do something about gas

BLITZER: You're the majority. You're in the leadership, go ahead.

BLUNT: And that's $1.35 ago. VAN HOLLEN: We do have a common sense plan. First of all,
we agree with Roy with respect to the strategic petroleum reserve. That's exactly what we
should do. The president has been blocking that. But we lay out a very clear tact early on
with legislation that says we need to reduce our reliance on oil and gas going forward.

BLITZER: But that's a long-term solution. Right now we're talking about -- what can be done
immediately to help those Americans who are in trouble?

VAN HOLLEN: Absolutely. One is the strategic petroleum reserve. Another thing we can do
and we have done is finally give the FTC the ability to enforce price manipulation in the oil
and gas market. They've been sitting on their hands. They've not been moving. We have
also got legislation, our Republican colleagues will have an opportunity to vote on it dealing
with OPEC, finally being able to deal with OPEC price manipulation as a cartel from a leader
perspective. So there are a couple of things we can do right now.

BLITZER: What about eliminating the federal gas tax between Memorial Day and Labor
Day? That's -- Hillary Clinton says it's a good idea. John McCain says it's a good idea. They
disagree on how to fund that $10 or $12 billion, whatever it might cost. But Barack Obama
says it's a stupid idea.

VAN HOLLEN: Right. We in the House don't think that that's a good idea. It is too short
termy. It is a gimmick type of approach. The problem is it would mean that right now funds
that would go into the transportation program to help build bridges, infrastructure, roads,
would be reduced. This is a time we need to be increasing our investment and our national
infrastructure. It is long overdue and it would also help boost the economy.

BLITZER: Let's let Congressman Blunt respond. Go ahead and respond.

BLUNT: Everything we have come up and the country comes up with is either too short term
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for the majority or too long term for the majority. We need a short-term fix right now. We need
the long-term things we need to do to encourage a shift in where that petroleum comes from.
Jay Leno said I think one night last week that House Democrats today said that drilling in the
Anwar wouldn't produce any fuel for 10 years. Then he paused and said that's exactly what
they said 10 years ago. We need some long-term things going on. We also need some short-
term relief right now. A gas tax holiday replaced with money that otherwise would have gone
into congressional earmarks, a bill that I co-sponsored last week with Paul Ryan and John
Boehner and others would do that. Those two things are going to impact this summer.

VAN HOLLEN: It's the Democrats who on the first day of the new Congress finally adopted
reforms to earmark policy making this transparent and accountable. We're more than willing
to explore ways --

BLITZER: Viewers may not know, the earmarks are what's called these pork barrel spending,
money specifically designed to help one particular group or area.

VAN HOLLEN: That's right. But with respect to the long term, there are millions of acres of
federal land that are open to leasing right now where the oil companies are not drilling for
gas. And in terms of the long-term, we have said that we should eliminate the subsidies, the
taxpayer giveaways for the oil and gas --

BLITZER: That's a new tax, a windfall profits tax on the Exxon Mobil and other big oil
companies, you support that?

VAN HOLLEN: No, what I've been talking about is getting rid of the subsidies for the oil and
gas industry.

BLITZER: But that is in effect an increase in taxes.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, that's right. We don't think they should be getting tax breaks at a time
when they're making record profits.

BLITZER: You think they should?

BLUNT: In 2005, we passed legislation that did actually encourage people to look at these
public lands, drill in a nonintrusive way to find the gas and oil that we believe -- and the
experts in the field believe we have more unfound reserves in this country of gas and oil than
we have known reserves of gas and oil.

We passed legislation in the House that would have allowed deep ocean drilling, 100 miles
off-coast, where the Chinese and others are drilling right now.

And every bill that's been reported out of the House Resources Committee since the new
majority took over discouraged that kind of effort going forward.

Every single bill minimized the use of those very lands that Chris and I agree, apparently,
have resources we ought to be looking at.

VAN HOLLEN: Many of them...

BLITZER: All right. Very quickly...

VAN HOLLEN: Many of them are already open to drilling. And you guys are opposed to
getting rid of subsidies for the oil and gas industry and investing those funds instead in

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renewable energy and energy efficiency.

BLITZER: All right. Hold on.

BLUNT: Those two arguments don't even go together.

If they're open to drilling, getting rid of subsidies for the oil and gas companies to drill in this
country has nothing to do with whether you encourage people to open the drilling...

VAN HOLLEN: What I'm saying -- there are already lands that are open to drilling. They're
not taking advantage of them.

BLUNT: Every bill the Resources Committee has reported out on this topic has discouraged
that policy that we put in place in 2000.


VAN HOLLEN: ... profits are a big incentive for... (CROSSTALK) BLITZER: We've got to
leave it here, unfortunately, Congressmen. But thanks to both of you for joining us. Let's
continue this conversation down the road.

VAN HOLLEN: You bet.

BLUNT: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: And coming up, a strong supporter of John McCain questions the Barack Obama
stance on Iran and a lot more. My interview with Senator Joe Lieberman is next. "Late
Edition" continues right after this.


BLITZER: Presumptive Republican nominee John McCain can count on at least one vote
from the other side of the aisle. That would be Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut. I
spoke with the senator about his reasons for backing McCain over his fellow Democrats and
his reservations about the Democratic front-runner, Senator Barack Obama.


BLITZER: And joining us now, Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut. He's an independent
Democrat, as he likes to call himself. But he's supporting John McCain. Thanks very much
for coming in.

LIEBERMAN: Good to be with you.

BLITZER: You're out there. You're pretty involved in trying to get him elected, aren't you?

LIEBERMAN: Yes. I mean, once I made the decision that John McCain, in my opinion, is
best prepared to be the president we need for the next four years, I'm not going to hold back.
I'm doing everything I can to help him.

We've come a long way since December, when I came on board. And this is going to be a
tough campaign. But it's a really important one. So I want to help John every way I can.

BLITZER: You assume Obama is going to be the Democratic nominee?

LIEBERMAN: I think you have to assume that now. But it isn't over. And as long as Senator
Clinton is in there and Senator Obama doesn't have the pledged delegates he needs to
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clinch the nomination, it's not over.

BLITZER: But you're gearing up for the assumption it's going to be McCain versus Obama?

LIEBERMAN: I personally assume that, yes.

BLITZER: All right. Let's talk, a little bit, about Senator Obama. He was here in "The Situation
Room" yesterday. And I asked him about -- to react to comments from Senator McCain,
suggesting that he, Obama, is the preferred candidate of the Palestinian militant group

And Senator Obama reacted angrily. He said that was a smear; it was offensive. And he
went on and said this.


OBAMA: For him to toss out comments like that, I think, is an example of him losing his
bearings, as he per sues this nomination.


BLITZER: Now didn't take very long after that for Mark Salter, a senior adviser to the McCain
campaign to say, "Let us be clear about the nature of Senator Obama's attack today: He
used the words 'losing his bearings' intentionally, a not a particularly clever way of raising
John McCain's age as an issue. This is typical of the Obama style of campaigning."

When you heard him use those words, "losing his bearings," did that impress you as ageism,
or an attack on McCain's age?

LIEBERMAN: I'll tell you, when I first heard it, I thought it was an undeserved and somewhat
intemperate comment.

BLITZER: On who's part?

LIEBERMAN: On the part of Senator Obama. These things will happen in a campaign. But
you could say that you disagree with something Senator McCain said. But to say he lost his
bearings suggests something more fundamental and personal.

BLITZER: Because Obama's position is that, when it comes to Hamas, he sees it as a
terrorist organization. He says his position is the same as McCain's.

LIEBERMAN: That's true. And I think that's why his comments about what senator McCain
said were undeserved. Because John McCain obviously knows & senator Obama clearly
doesn't support any of the values and goals of Hamas.

But the fact that the spokesperson for Hamas would say they would welcome the election of
Senator Obama really does raise the question, "Why?"

And it suggests the difference between these two candidates. And I think Hamas and
Hezbollah, which is now control of Beirut, apparently, are proxies, are wards of Iran, which is
the very same country that constantly shouts "Death to America, death to Israel."

So I think one of John's strengths, John McCain's strength as president, frankly, is that our
allies and friends around the world will trust him. And our enemies like Hamas and Iran will

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fear him. And I think they need to fear him. And I'm afraid some of the things Senator Obama
said -- very quickly, you know, I've put in a... BLITZER: All right. Well, let me play a clip of
what Senator Obama said yesterday at a 60th anniversary independence celebration of
Israel, that the Israeli embassy hosted. Turn around and listen and watch. He is right over


OBAMA: I pledge to you that I will do whatever I can, in whatever capacity, to not only ensure
Israel's security but also to ensure that people of Israel are able to thrive and prosper.


BLITZER: All right. Do you have any doubt about Senator Obama's commitment to maintain
a very supportive role for the United States, as far as Israel is concerned?

LIEBERMAN: I have no doubt about that. But here's what I want to say. Senator Obama has
said he would sit down, without condition, with Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran.

That not only gives prestige to a terrible America and Israel- hater but it also threatens our
allies in the region.

Look, I'll give you another example. This is an indirect step that could undermine our position
in the Middle East. Earlier this year, Senator Kyl and I introduced the resolution in the Senate
which called on the administration to impose economic sanctions on the Iranian
Revolutionary Guard that is training and equipping Iraqis that are going back into Iraq and
killing American soldiers, hundreds of them.

Senator McCain and Senator Clinton voted for that resolution. About three quarters of the
Senate did. Senator Obama did not.

LIEBERMAN: He said it was saber-rattling. It was the exact opposite of that, it was economic
sanctions and nothing to do with the military.

BLITZER: I think what he said, he said he would give a green light to the Bush administration
to consider military action.

LIEBERMAN: But no way -- it was the exact opposite of that. So here's what I'm saying. I
don't question Senator Obama's commitment to the security of the state of Israel. I'm saying
when it comes to dealing with enemies, both in the Middle East and around the world,
Senator McCain has more experience, more balance, knows when to be tough, knows when
to be soft.

BLITZER: All right.

LIEBERMAN: I worry that Senator Obama has not had that experience. And, therefore,
ultimately will compromise our security in that way and also our alliances.


BLITZER: And coming up next.


GORE: During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the

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BLITZER: Vice President Al Gore making his famous or infamous Internet claim right here on
LATE EDITION a little more than nine years ago. We're going to look back at a decade of the
last word on Sunday talk in just a moment.


BLITZER: Welcome back to LATE EDITION, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is my 10th
year of hosting LATE EDITION. So we thought we'd take the opportunity every Sunday this
year to revisit some of my interviews with politicians, world leaders and other news makers.

In March of 1999, I spoke with then Vice President Al Gore as he was preparing for what
would become an unsuccessful run to succeed Bill Clinton. In that interview, he made a claim
that dogged him on the campaign trail.


BLITZER: Some people have suggested that you will try to emerge from Bill Clinton's
shadow during the course of coming year. Others say you don't want to emerge from his
shadow. The question to you is do you want to emerge from the president's shadow?

GORE: Well, I don't feel like I'm in a shadow. I think the job of vice president is very different
and very distinct from the job of president. And for the last six years plus, I've concentrated
on doing the best job I can as vice president to help him be the best -- the best president he
can be. And I've really enjoyed that. It's been a great privilege and honor. But as a
presidential candidate, when I become one, I will be in a very different relationship to the
American people and at that time I'll be speaking about my vision for what I want to see in
this country in the 21st century. I'm looking forward to that. I'm very excited about that.

BLITZER: The Al Gore vision will not be necessarily completely the same as the Bill Clinton

GORE: Well, no because the challenges we face in the future are different from the ones we
face in the past. I have been very much involved in shaping our current economic policies
and I feel as if I know a great deal about how to keep our prosperity going. We have a
governing coalition willing to support the ideas that work for the American people. I have also
participated in shaping our environmental, education and crime fighting policies and other
initiatives. But the challenges are going to be brand new. You know, the 21st century is not
only the beginning of a new millennium, it's the beginning of an entirely new era in human
history. We have to take new approaches.

BLITZER: I want to get to some of those and the domestic and international issues in a
minute. Let's juts wrap up a little bit of the politics right now. Why should Democrats, looking
at the Democratic nomination, the process support you instead of Bill Bradley, a friend of
yours, a former colleague in the Senate? What do you have to bring to this that he doesn't
necessarily bring to this presidency?

GORE: I will be -- I'll be offering my vision when my campaign begins. It will be
comprehensive and sweeping. I hope that it will be compelling enough to draw people toward
it. I feel that it will be.

But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I have traveled to every part of
this country during the last six years during my service in the United States Congress, I took
the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of
initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and
environmental protection, improvements in our educational system during a quarter century
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of public service, including most of it long before I came into my current job. I have worked to
try to improve the quality of life in our country and in our world. And what I've seen during
that experience is an emerging future that is very exciting about which I'm very optimistic and
towards which I want to lead.


BLITZER: And if you'd like to see my full interview with then vice president Al Gore, you can
go to Up next, as oil hits record highs, why can't the Iraqis pay
reconstruction costs with their oil revenues? We'll speak about that and more with Iraq's
ambassador to the United States right after the break. LATE EDITION continues right after


BLITZER: Welcome back to "Late Edition."

The rising price of oil and the troubled U.S. economy is raising concerns about the financial
costs of the war in Iraq. Joining us now is Iraq's ambassador to the United States, Samir
Sumaidaie. Mr. Ambassador, welcome back to "Late Edition."

SUMAIDAIE: Thank you.

BLITZER: As you know, Iraq is a major oil-exporting country right now, and you're expected
to take in, what, $60 billion or even $80 billion over the next year in oil export revenues.
You're accumulating huge oil surpluses right now, funds that are in U.S. banks, other banks.

Listen to Carl Levin, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, because he is
very angry right now that the U.S. taxpayer continues to spend so much money in Iraq when
Iraqis could be doing it themselves.


SEN. CARL LEVIN, D-MICH.: It is unconscionable, it is inexcusable, it makes no common
sense for a country that has that kind of wealth and that kind of surplus in our banks and their
banks to be sending us the tab or for us to pay the tab for the infrastructure and some of the
training costs that we're now paying for.


BLITZER: The U.S. is spending, what, about $10 or $12 billion a month in Iraq right now.
What is going on?

SUMAIDAIE: Well, I certainly understand the frustration expressed by the distinguished
senator here. But let us separate myth from fact. Iraq does have a surplus, but the surplus
does not mean that there is no need for this money.

Iraq is a completely destroyed country. The infrastructure has to be rebuilt right from the
beginning. Majority of Iraqis don't have even access to drinking water. Health centers...

BLITZER: So why is that money, the $20 billion or $30 billion in banks, is just sitting there
instead of being used for that? SUMAIDAIE: There are two reasons. There are two reasons.
One, is that we are announcing many major projects to rebuild. And there are no qualified
international companies coming forward to do them, because of the security situation. So we
have -- we have our own frustrations.

Plus, we have our own capacity problems within our administration. The government is not
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yet well organized enough to spend the money under the right kind of controls. So...

BLITZER: So why not just give the money to the U.S. and let the U.S. spend the money?

SUMAIDAIE: Well, we are doing that. On, for example, on the armament of the military, on
the weapons and supplies for the military, we've shifted all that to the U.S. and said, please
do it for us.

We are also taking up practically all the costs -- when I say practically, well over 90 percent
and very soon 100 percent -- of the cost of our security forces.

The reconstruction, we're taking that over as fast as we can. So there is no reluctance on our
part to pay for our own reconstruction.

BLITZER: Listen to Senator Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential frontrunner,
because he's among those also very frustrated right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: Their budget was designed on the basis of $57 a barrel oil.
It's now at $116. They have taken twice as much income oil revenue in as they have
projected, and that money is not being spent.


BLITZER: And now it's even more, at $120 a barrel.

SUMAIDAIE: Well, I've explained some of the reasons why the money is not being spent fast

Let me just take you back. 2006, we are only able to spend 20 percent of our budget. 2007,
that went up to 64 percent. This year, we hope to hit 80 percent. We are trying to improve our
capacity to spend.

But let us be very, very clear. The amount of money that Iraqis and the country need to
rebuild itself and to stabilize itself are multiple times the amount of money we have available.

BLITZER: Because Iraq could be a very wealthy country. It could be exporting $80 billion a
year in oil, potentially, given the high price.

SUMAIDAIE: Potentially. Let me just tell you this. The best way to get the oil price,
international oil price down, is to help Iraq be stabilized and produce more oil. We are able to
produce three times the amount of oil we are producing today. But for that, we need to
stabilize the country and we need to rebuild our oil infrastructure.

Only last Monday Iraq signed a contract with Boeing, for more than $5 billion, so the money
is flowing back. We're trying to spend it where we can, and a lot of that money is coming
back to the U.S. economy.

BLITZER: But what I hear you saying -- and we have to wrap it up -- is you're going to spend
more money, Iraqi money, and U.S. taxpayers will spend less in Iraq. Is that what you're

SUMAIDAIE: That's what...


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BLITZER: And will the U.S. have to maintain this current level?

SUMAIDAIE: Absolutely not. We are taking over as fast as we can. We are taking over on
the construction side. We are taking over on the security side. And as time goes on, the
money spent by the Americans on reconstruction or on our arms services will come down to
zero and we'll take on the full load.

BLITZER: I think that's what a lot of Americans would like to hear.

SUMAIDAIE: Absolutely. BLITZER: Mr. Ambassador, thanks for coming in.

SUMAIDAIE: Thank you.

BLITZER: Up next, Barack Obama accuses his rival John McCain of quote, "losing his
bearings." That and a lot more. Part two of my interview with the Democratic presidential
frontrunner. There is much more on "Late Edition" right at the top of the hour.


BLITZER: This is LATE EDITION, the last word in Sunday talk.


OBAMA: If I had had my way, we would not have gone into Iraq in the first place.

BLITZER: In his first interview since Tuesday's pivotal primaries, Democratic presidential
candidate Barack Obama discusses his vision for the United States and the world.

The way ahead in Iraq. The former U.S. commander in Iraq, Lieutenant General Ricardo
Sanchez weighs in on the war and his new book "Wiser in Battle: A Soldier's Story."

CLINTON: People say to me all the time, are you going to keep going? Well yes of course
I'm going to keep going.

MCCAIN: I will be the president of all the people, whether they vote for me or not.

BLITZER: We'll break down the race for the White House with three of the best political team
on television. LATE EDITION's second hour begins right now.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN in Washington, this is LATE EDITION with Wolf Blitzer.

BLITZER: And welcome back to LATE EDITION. Coming off Tuesday's primary, Senator
Barack Obama was clearly turning his attention to the general election and his presumptive
opponent John McCain when we sat down for our interview. You're going to see how our
discussion of foreign policy quickly turned political and even personal.


BLITZER: Let's go through a couple foreign policy issues. McCain says, if you had your way,
the U.S. would surrender in Iraq; he wants victory.

OBAMA: If I had my way, we would not have gone into Iraq in the first place.

BLITZER: But what about now? OBAMA: I think it was a huge strategic blunder. And I think
the American people are smart enough to understand that a phased withdrawal, where we're
as careful getting out as we were careless getting in, that puts pressure on the Iraqis to stand
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up and take seriously their obligations to arrive at a political accommodation at the same time
as we are doubling down on diplomacy in the surrounding region, and not just Saudi Arabia,
Turkey, and Jordan, but also in Syria and Iraq, then we are also investing in humanitarian aid
for the people who have been displaced in Iraq, that that's not surrendering.

That's a sensible policy that will allow us then to deal with our biggest strategic problem,
which is al Qaeda in Afghanistan and the border regions of Pakistan reconstituting
themselves. And that's something that we have been distracted from and something that I
intend to focus on when I'm president of the United States.

BLITZER: This is going to be a huge difference, the war in Iraq, the fallout, between you and

OBAMA: Right.

BLITZER: He also is going after you now, today, the 60th anniversary of Israel's
independence. He says you're not necessarily endorsing policies that would be good for

He says this, for example: "I think it's very clear who Hamas wants to be the next president of
the United States. I think that people should understand that I will be Hamas' worst
nightmare. Senator Obama is favored by Hamas. I think people can make judgments

OBAMA: Yes, this -- this is offensive.

And I think it's disappointing, because John McCain always says, well, I'm not going to run
that kind of politics. And then to engage in that kind of smear, I think, is unfortunate,
particularly since my policy towards Hamas has been no different than his.

I have said that they are a terrorist organization, that we should not negotiate with them
unless they recognize Israel, renounce violence and unless they're willing to abide by
previous accords between the Palestinians and the Israelis. And, so, for him to toss out
comments like that, I think, is an example of him losing his bearings as he pursues this

We don't need name-calling in this debate. What we're going to need is to have a serious
conversation about, how do we keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of the Iranian
regime, how do we broker a peace deal between the Israelis and Palestinians that allows
both sides to benefit, Israel assuring its security and its status as a Jewish state, the
Palestinians able to have a contiguous, functioning state, where their people can prosper?

And, if we end up continuing to be locked up in these ideological arguments, playing politics
of the sort that we have seen John McCain doing recently, then I think, frankly, we're going to
miss an opportunity to really move this country in a better direction and to reset our foreign
policy in a way that I think the world is anxious for.

The world wants to see the United States lead. They have been disappointed and
disillusioned over the last seven, eight years. But I think there is still a sense everywhere I go
that, you know, if the United States regains its -- its sense of who it is and our values and our
ideals, that we will continue to set the tone for creating a more peaceful and more
prosperous world.

BLITZER: I want to move on, but, on this 60th anniversary of Israel, what -- what does Israel
mean to you?

OBAMA: Israel is not only our strongest ally in the region and one of our strongest allies in
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the world, but there is a special connection between America and Israel, one that, when I
traveled to Israel, was evident.

Not only do we share so much in terms of common culture. Not only is it the site of so much
of our -- of my religious faith and the site of so much of our understanding of the world
around us, but what I love about Israel is, is that it is a robust democracy, and that they are
committed to principles like rule of law and civil rights and civil liberties. And so it is critical
that we send a message around the world we will stand with Israel, we want them around not
just for 60 years, but for 600 years. And when I am president of the United States they will
have an unwavering ally in me.

BLITZER: We asked our viewers to send us in some questions, and we got thousands of
responses, as you can only imagine. I've got a couple. I just want you to watch one of those
and get your reaction. A lot of people asked this basic question.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears that you do not have enough support among blue collar
workers as Senator Clinton did. Would you consider just on that basis alone considering her
on a joint ticket as vice president?


OBAMA: Well, you know, as I said before, "Time" magazine notwithstanding, we haven't
wrapped this thing up yet. At the point where I'm the nominee, I'll start going through the
process of figuring out what -- you know, what my running mate -- who my running mate
might be.

Senator Clinton has shown herself to be an extraordinary candidate. She is tireless, she is
smart, she is capable. And so obviously she'd on anybody's short list to be a potential vice
presidential candidate.

But it would be presumptuous of me at this point, when she is still actively running, when she
is highly favored to win the next -- two of the next three contests, for me to somehow suggest
that she should be my running mate. At this point I think we have to just resolve this process
and then we can figure it out.

BLITZER: There will be plenty of time down the road for that.

OBAMA: There will be, yes.

BLITZER: All right. Here is a question. Listen to this one.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I strongly believe that us human beings are defined by what we've
done in our lifetimes. What is the one thing that a President Barack Obama, what will he be
remembered for achieving during his presidency or during his lifetime?


OBAMA: Well, we've got a lot of jobs before us, but the most important thing I think I could
achieve, you know, if I am looking back eight years from now and I am fortunate enough to
be the president, is that we were able to navigate our way through this situation in Iraq and

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the threat of al Qaeda in Afghanistan in a way that makes us more secure, stronger, but also
enhances our influence around the world, which I think has been diminishing.

I think the way we have run this war in Iraq has lessened our ability to move our allies. It has
led us to ignore the critical needs for us to focus on a sound energy policy in this country. It
has left us unable to lead on critical global issues like global warming. And it has led us to
neglect what ultimately is the most important thing to keeping America safe, and that is
having an economy that is the envy of the world and that gives us the resources and the
power to project ourselves around the world.

If China ends up becoming the economic powerhouse of this century, then their military will
ultimately match up with that economic power. So part of resetting our foreign policy has to
include understanding that there are Americans out there who are struggling.

They want to succeed, they want to get a college education. They want to be scientists.

OBAMA: They want to be, you know, on the cutting edge of clean energy. They want to be
on the cutting edge of Biotech. But we're going to have to make some investments and
ensure that the dynamism and the innovation of the American people is released.

It's very hard for us to do that when we're spending close to $200 billion a year in other
countries, rebuilding those countries instead of focusing on making ourselves strong.

BLITZER: We're out of time, but a quick question, on this Mother's Day weekend. Your
mother raised you. She was on food stamps at one point, a single mother.

If she were alive today and she saw where you have reached, the point that you have
reached right now, what would she say to you? (LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: She'd say, "Don't let it get to your head. Just keep on working hard." But I think
she'd be pretty proud. Everything that I am, I owe to her. She was the kindest, most
generous person I ever met. And her values and her integrity still guide she.

She's somebody who, when I'm confronted with difficult choices, I have to ask myself, you
know, what would she -- what would she expect of me? And I think that's usually a good

Now, I've got to say that the mother that counts most in my life at the moment is Michelle,
who, through a very difficult process, continues to raise two of the best daughters that
anybody would ever want. And she's out on the campaign trail at the same time, and keeping
me straight, so, happy Mother's Day to her, as well.

BLITZER: And a happy Mother's Day to all the mothers out there.

OBAMA: Absolutely.

BLITZER: OK, Senator, thanks very much for coming in.

OBAMA: Thank you, Wolf. I enjoyed it.

BLITZER: And still to come, we're going to get reaction to the Obama interview from a
leading McCain supporter, the former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney.

But up next, the former U.S. commander in Iraq is now speaking out, and he's putting the
blame for the poor post-invasion planning in Iraq squarely on the Bush administration. We'll
speak live with Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, right after the break.

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"Late Edition" continues, right after this.


BLITZER: Welcome back. Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez is the former commander of
U.S. troops in Iraq. He's retired now and free to speak his mind, and he's doing just that.

He's described the Bush administration's war plan as -- and I'm quoting now --
"catastrophically flawed," and he's backing all of that up now in a new book entitled "Wiser in
Battle: A Soldier's Story."

General Sanchez is joining us now, live from San Antonio.

General, thanks very much for coming in.

SANCHEZ: Wolf, thank you very much for the opportunity.

BLITZER: You caused a lot of publicity, a lot of headlines, back in October, when you said
this, referring to the administration's strategy then unfolding in Iraq.


SANCHEZ: The latest revised strategy is a desperate attempt by the administration that has
not accepted the political and economic realities of this war. And they have definitely not
been able to communicate effectively that reality to the American people.


BLITZER: All right, General. What do you think about the -- what's your assessment, right
now, as to how this war is moving along?

SANCHEZ: Well, Wolf, I think what we have seen -- and it was desperately need at the time,
and I stated so in October, that we needed to support our soldiers as they conducted the
surge, in order to be able to bring some stability back to the country.

Because they would, in fact, be able to provide us another opportunity for America and the
coalition to surge its political, its economic and its diplomatic power to bring some long-term
stability. And, again, we are struggling with our ability to be able to do so.

BLITZER: So is it moving in the right direction right now, U.S. strategy, or the wrong

SANCHEZ: No, absolutely, I think the tremendous successes that Dave and our great young
Americans have achieved is, in fact, allowing us to move in the right direction.

But we still are not at the point where we have achieved that regional diplomacy to allow all
of the countries in the region to assist us to help Iraq stabilize itself.

And, probably more importantly, we have not been able to move reconciliation and some of
the other critical and economic challenges inside of Iraq forward at a fast enough pace.

BLITZER: Because I will play for you what Senator McCain, the Republican presidential
candidate, said this week. And I want to see if you agree with him. Listen to this.


MCCAIN: There's no doubt that it was mishandled for nearly four years. For nearly four
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years, we were frustrated by the mishandling of the strategy in Iraq, and it was terrible. And
now we have the right strategy. The surge is working.


BLITZER: And you agree with him, A, that it was badly mishandled for four years but now the
surge is working?

SANCHEZ: Oh, absolutely. I think all one has to do is look at the facts, as I have laid them
out in my book, and it will be very obvious that, from a political and an economic standpoint,
we were never able to synchronize and deploy the power that was necessary for us to take
advantage of the great work of our young warriors.

And also, diplomatically, for an extended period of time, we never took the initiatives that
were required for us to ensure that we brought stability to Iraq.

BLITZER: Here's what you write in "Wiser in Battle," on page 208. You write, "In effect, I was
told, do the best you can with the resources available. So that's what we did. To protect the
borders, for example, we ran periodic patrols because we didn't have the man power to
properly secure the borders all the time. And it remained that way for my entire tenure in

Basically, your complaint that you didn't have enough forces to really get the job done.

Back in October of last year, when you were making some of these criticisms, though,
Senator Lindsey Graham was on "Late Edition." He's a key member of the Senate Armed
Services Committee. I asked him to respond to your criticism, and here's what he said.


SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C.: I was there the day the U.N. facility was bombed, killing
the U.N. diplomat. And I ask him every time, do we have enough people here?

Senator McCain was an early critic of the strategy of not having enough troops on the
ground. And every time we talked to General Sanchez, we got push-back: "We have enough
troops." "The Guard and Reserves are not being strained." (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He was referring to the time when that U.N. post in Baghdad was bombed. And
that was in 2003, shortly after so-called major combat operations were over. The president
declared that you were then the commander of multi-national forces in Iraq.

And Senator Graham says he asked you repeatedly, "Do you have enough troops?" and you
said you did.

SANCHEZ: Well, Wolf, I think what we have to do is, once again, take a look at what is
actually transpiring in the aftermath of major combat operations.

SANCHEZ: The nation as a whole does not have sufficient capacity at that point in time to be
able to sustain the level of deployment forces that we had. In terms of what is actually on the
ground by that point, we had stabilized the force and it was in the order of about 145,000 to
150,000, plus another 10,000 to 15,000 of coalitions forces that were in place.

So at that point in time for the admissions that were associated with the insurgency as it was
beginning to evolve, we had enough forces and we've got to understand that in the course of

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a war, there are -- it's a very dynamic situation.

BLITZER: Let me be precise, General Sanchez, you don't dispute what Senator Graham is
saying that when he asked you and Senator McCain asked you early on in 2003, do you
have enough troops, you said you did.

SANCHEZ: Absolutely and I think the record clearly shows that at different points in time
when we are, in fact, faced with very challenging situations, a couple of examples are
November of 2003 and then again in April of 2004 during Fallujah and with Muqtada al-Sadr,
when we require the forces and ask for them and we are able to achieve some increased
numbers by overlapping forces. But our ability to sustain in the long term is very tenuous
and, in fact, very difficult for the nation to achieve.

BLITZER: In the book, you acknowledge that when this insurgency got going after the so-
called major combat operation stays ended in 2003, you acknowledge that you and the U.S.
basically didn't have a good appreciation, a good understanding of what was actually

I'll read from your book on page 257. "With the igniting of the insurgency, our battlefield
clearly expanded all the way across the country. The enemy force was so unstructured that
we were unable to specifically identify objectives against which we could maneuver our
forces. There was also an increased intensity in the fighting and casualty rates spiked as our
soldiers fought and died every day."

You really didn't understand at that time, correct me if I'm wrong, General Sanchez, the
enormity of what was unfolding.

SANCHEZ: Actually, what we don't understand is we don't understand the command and
control structures. We don't understand the size of the insurgency. As we look back from the
very early days of my command tenure and the June time frame of 2003, we very clearly
established that the command and the nation, in fact, in Iraq does not have the intelligence
capabilities, the capacities, the expertise and the access to be able to determine what is
happening to us in this country.

We don't even understand the culture. And to further complicate the problem during the
summer of 2003, we take away all the command and control headquarters, the mini
Pentagons that are above me, the two headquarters that are gone by the end of May. So this
further complicates America's challenge.

BLITZER: General, looking back, knowing what we know right now and obviously we're all a
lot smarter we are now as opposed to then. Was this war a mistake?

SANCHEZ: Well I think when we look at exactly what the decision elements were that were
being considered, the intelligence that we believed in, I don't know that our nation's
leadership, both military and political, could have made any other decision.

And, in fact, Saddam was a significant threat in the region and we expected that we had
some sort of WMD capability that was likely to get in the hands of extremists. So, when you
look back, given what we knew then, I don't believe you can call it a mistake. BLITZER:
General Sanchez, thanks very much for joining us. Once again, the book is entitled "Wiser in
Battle: A Soldier's Story." General, thanks very much.

SANCHEZ: Thank you, Wolf.

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BLITZER: And coming up next.


ROMNEY: He doesn't have a record of accomplishment in the private sector or in the
governmental sector.


BLITZER: John McCain's key supporter Mitt Romney responding to my interview with
Senator Barack Obama. He calls the Democratic presidential candidate front-runner quote
"untested and unproven." LATE EDITION continues right after this.


BLITZER: Earlier this week, former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney blasted
the Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, saying that he had "not accomplished
anything." As you heard in the last hour, Senator Obama dismissed his criticism and
afterward I went back to the former governor of Massachusetts for his response.


BLITZER: Governor, thanks for coming in. ROMNEY: Thanks, Wolf. Good to be with you.

BLITZER: He -- I asked him to respond to your criticism of him that he really hasn't
accomplished much legislatively or in the world of business. The presidency, you said, of the
United States is not an internship.

Here's how he responded.


OBAMA: The contest didn't work out so well for Mitt Romney. I think he was making those
same arguments against John McCain, suggesting that John McCain, as a senator, hadn't
done what Mitt Romney had done. And yet here we are and there Mitt Romney is.

Look, when it comes to national security, I think that what people are looking for is good


BLITZER: And he says he had good judgment in not supporting the war from the beginning.

All right, you want to respond?

ROMNEY: Well, his response, of course, was not to -- to discuss the merits of the issue. The
truth of the matter is, just as I said, that he doesn't have a record of accomplishment in the
private sector or in the governmental sector. He hasn't led any kind of entity. He hasn't
pushed a major piece of legislation.

He seems like a charming guy who is very well spoken. But in terms of actually having led,
actually having accomplished something, actually having been the kind of leader that
America needs at a critical time, with our economy fragile, with us facing real challenges
around the world, he's untested and unproven.

BLITZER: But what about...

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ROMNEY: And, frankly, Senator McCain is someone who's very tested and very proven.

BLITZER: But what about his argument that you used to make the same criticisms of McCain
when you were running against McCain?

ROMNEY: No, he's not quite right on that. I always recognized Senator McCain's long
service in our United States Senate, as well as his tested and proven status as a leader and
as a member of our military. There's no question about John -- where John McCain has
earned his stripes and how many years he's taken to do that. He is somebody well-known for
his legislative accomplishments, for bringing Republicans and Democrats together. He's a
person of experience and capability -- which, by the way, is something the American people
recognized, I think, when they selected him in the primary process. BLITZER: Here's what he
said, Senator Obama, in my interview, when I asked him to react to Senator McCain's
criticisms of him on the issue of Hamas and Israel, McCain suggesting that Senator Obama
is really the Hamas candidate of choice.

Listen to this.


OBAMA: This is offensive. And I think it's disappointing, because John McCain always says
well, I'm not going to run that kind of politics. And then to engage in that kind of, you know,
smear, I think, is unfortunate, particularly since my policy toward Hamas has been no
different than his.


BLITZER: All right, you want to handle that one?

ROMNEY: Yes. Sure. Again he's trying to deflect from the substance. The United States
leader of Hamas has said that he is endorsing Barack Obama. That's a very embarrassing
thing. And the reason for that is pretty straightforward. And that is Barack Obama has said if
he's elected president, in his first year, he will sit down with Ahmadinejad. ROMNEY: And
Ahmadinejad and his government are the major financial supports, state-sponsored support
that stands behind Hamas, as well as Hezbollah and other terrorist groups.

And think of Ahmadinejad. Today he said that Israel is a stinking corpse on its way to
annihilation. And, yet, Barack Obama says he is going to sit down with him in his first year as
being the president. It is one more clear example of a person that's out of his depth when it
comes to being the leader of the free world.

BLITZER: He says that he welcomes a debate with John McCain on the issue of the
economy, taxes, spending policy, because John McCain would simply be more George W.
Bush. Here's how he put it.


OBAMA: Absolutely. Because think about what I'm going to be running against -- the failed
policies of the Bush administration, which John McCain wants to continue.


BLITZER: Does John McCain want to continue what Obama calls the failed policies of the
Bush administration?

ROMNEY: Well, I think you're going to hear that time and again, Wolf, throughout the
campaign season, and I just don't think it's going to stick. I think people around the country
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have recognized that John McCain's nickname as the maverick in Washington is something
which they remember and they understand why. He has not stood behind President Bush in
every single decision of President Bush. As a matter of fact, he came out very early on and
said that Donald Rumsfeld was the worst secretary of defense in the history of our nation. He
vehemently opposed the way the war was being conducted. He has been an independent
thinker, and he's been right.

He also said we have got to put a surge in place to provide the support necessary to get Iraq
on track, and that has worked. He is somebody who has demonstrated time and again he's
an independent thinker, and he's been right time and again.

So, you know, Barack's going to try to paint him into George Bush, but that's just a paint
that's not going to stick.

BLITZER: Governor Romney, thanks for coming in.

ROMNEY: Thank you. Good to be with you, Wolf.


BLITZER: And coming up, will Democratic superdelegates try to force Hillary Clinton out of
the race before the primary's end on June 3rd? We'll have analysis from three of the best
political team on television. "Late Edition" continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back to "Late Edition." I'm Wolf Blitzer in

If it was clear it many pundits this week that Hillary Clinton's run for the White House was
effectively over, it certainly wasn't clear to Hillary Clinton. So the Democratic nomination
battle continues, and let's discuss that. Let's see what's going on right now with three of the
best political team on television. Our congressional correspondent Jessica Yellin is out on
the CNN Election Express in Charleston, West Virginia. Also with me here in Washington,
our White House correspondent Ed Henry, and our senior political analyst Bill Schneider.
Thanks, guys, very much.

Bill, Time magazine's cover. This new issue that's out, and the winner is -- we'll put it up on
the screen. You can take a look at it. There he is. And the winner is -- they have got a little
asterisk that says really we're pretty sure this time. Is it premature to say this Democratic
presidential nomination is over?

SCHNEIDER: Well, she's not quit yet, so technically it's not over, and mathematically it would
be possible that she got almost all the remaining delegates yet to be chosen...

BLITZER: And all the superdelegates, too.

SCHNEIDER: And the superdelegates. You could figure out a theoretical scenario, but that
looks very unlikely. It's not a done deal, but it looks unlikely.

BLITZER: It looks very unlikely. That's what everybody says, Ed. You see it differently?

HENRY: No, not at all. But I think that basically, Hillary Clinton has until the first week of
June, as you mentioned. A lot of people heard these comments this week from Speaker
Nancy Pelosi saying, give her some more time, there is no reason why this can't play out
until early June. A lot of people read that I think wrongly. They thought, well, Pelosi is going
to let this play out a while. A lot of leaders are fine with this thing.

No, she was setting a bar. She was setting a mark, and I think you're going to see that more
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and more from Democratic leaders. We'll give you some more breathing space, Hillary
Clinton. Give you a chance to exit on your own terms. But after the first week of June, then
it's going to get ugly. BLITZER: Here's what a lot of people don't understand. Jessica, you're
there in West Virginia for us. Hillary Clinton is expected to do very well, to win Tuesday's
Democratic presidential primary where you are in West Virginia. They split last Tuesday. She
narrowly won in Indiana; he decisively won in North Carolina.

What happened? Why all of a sudden, after a split on Tuesday and a likely win this Tuesday
in West Virginia and also the following Tuesday in Kentucky, she's expected to do very well.
Why are so many people counting her out? YELLIN: Well, a number of reasons. One is
about expectations. Barack Obama did so much better than expected in the last primary that
it really sort of renewed the momentum behind him after he lost so many primaries.

He won North Carolina by a significant margin. He did much better in Indiana than the
expectations were at the time. And even after that Jeremiah Wright controversy, the bitter
remarks, he picked up a lot of support, and it showed that he really could take a punch and
move on.

Also, Senator Clinton has not picked up the superdelegate support that was necessary for
her to show that she has real momentum going forward. She's in significant debt at this point,
as has been acknowledged by the campaign. Senator Clinton just really is losing every sort
of significant sign of momentum and energy she needs to keep pushing this forward. And
Barack Obama is getting all of it.

SCHNEIDER: There's one open question in my mind. I heard Senator Clinton just last week
say, "I can't imagine the Democratic Party nominating someone for president who is not
committed to the principle of universal health care coverage." Now, that is one of the few
serious issues that separate her and Barack Obama. And when she said it, as definitively as
she said it, how can we support a candidate not committed to universal health care, it led me
to think maybe she is going to go all the way to the convention and try to insist that the party
pass a platform plank or an amendment that says the party is committed to universal health
care, and make that the statement of her campaign.

That's what Ronald Reagan did against Ford. That's what Ted Kennedy did in 1980 against
Jimmy Carter, to make a stand.

BLITZER: She would be under enormous pressure not to do that.

Here's what she said on the day after Tuesday's primaries, Ed. Listen to this.


CLINTON: I'm staying in this race until there's a nominee. And I, obviously, am going to work
as hard as I can to become that nominee.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: But even one of her top supporters, Senator Dianne Feinstein
of California, she said this. And I'm going to put it up on the screen. "I would like to talk to
her. I think the race is reaching a point now where there are negative dividends in terms of
strife within the party. I think we need to prevent that as much as we can."

The pressure on her to drop out, assuming that the math isn't in her favor is going to be
enormous, even from within her own camp.

HENRY: That is absolutely true, and I think that is the same with Speaker Pelosi, as I

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mentioned, and a lot of other leaders, like Senator Feinstein, who basically are going to give
her a couple more weeks, but then say no mas, basically, if she can't turn it around.

And I think the only real hope for Senator Clinton at this point is Michigan and Florida, which
is still unresolved. And if somehow she can find a way to force a revote -- it seems highly
unlikely at this stage -- but she does make a good point about the fact that if the Democratic
Party is going to move forward towards the convention without resolving Michigan and
Florida, that's going to be a huge problem.

BLITZER: Jessica, the Democratic Party's rule committee meets May 31st to discuss what to
do about Michigan and Florida. These disputed primaries that have no standing right now as
far as delegate selection is concerned whether pledge delegates or the super delegates from
those two states. What's happening in West Virginia today where you are?

YELLIN: Well, there's a lot of excitement about this election coming up here. But I can tell
you, Wolf, that I know a number of senior Democrats who are very close to both the Obama
and the Clinton campaigns and have been talking to both throughout and have been having
conversations among themselves about whether it's possible to encourage Senator Clinton
to announce that she's dropping out after the West Virginia primary.

Their idea would be that she would come out on the night of the West Virginia election after a
huge victory for her and stay on a very high note, I know it's time and I'm dropping out and
throwing my support to Barack Obama. So there's a lot of focus on what will happen here
Tuesday night.

I should say I have no reason to believe that they have actually approached the Clinton
campaign or gotten any sort of agreement from Clinton. They're very nervous. All parties are
about talking to Senator Clinton about even the possibility of dropping out because it's such a
sensitive topic. But there's a lot of interest within the party about that as a possibility.

BLITZER: All right, we'll see what happens. Guys, stand by, we have a lot more to talk about,
including my interview with Barack Obama and this little exchange he and John McCain's
team is having. But up next, the Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, he talks about when he
thinks the Democratic race for president should end. Our very popular "In Case You Missed
It" segment, coming up next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Get back to our political panel in a moment. But now in case you missed it, let's
check some of the highlights from the other Sunday morning talk shows here in the United
States. All of them, all of them, the focus was on the state of the race between Barack
Obama and Hillary Clinton.


SEN. CHRISTOPHER J. DODD, D-CONN.: The unity is really the critical question. And, so,
how the campaign is waged is more important than whether or not it's being waged. I'm
confident again that Hillary Clinton understands how important it is that Democrats win this

Virginia on Tuesday. The last poll had Hillary up 43 points. She's up 40 points in Kentucky.
What does it say for the candidate that you say has won the nomination that he can't win two
states that Bill Clinton carried in 1992, in 1996. We lost them in 2000 and 2004. This is our
point. Hillary Clinton in the general election can beat John McCain.

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DAVID AXELROD, OBAMA CAMPAIGN MANAGER: We're coming to the end of the
process. I think people saw the results on Tuesday as very meaningful and I think there's an
eagerness on the part of the party leadership and activists across the country to get on with
the general election campaign. Senator McCain's been out there campaigning as the
nominee for some time. And I think people are eager to engage.

Hillary Clinton out of this race, beat her. Beat her in West Virginia. Beat her in Puerto Rico.
Beat her in Kentucky. We have key states coming up. There is no reason why Senator
Obama shouldn't be able to compete against Senator Clinton in West Virginia. It is, as I said,
a key swing state. Why can't Senator Obama beat Senator Clinton in West Virginia?

SEN. HARRY REID, D-NEV.: I think we have to play this out. We have a campaign that's
been very good for the American people. We have 3.5 million new registered voters around
the country. We have a campaign that is still going on and we have a June 3rd final primary.
President Clinton didn't get the nomination until June 2nd. So I think we should just relax a
little bit.

campaign in the last few weeks, I think she's become a stronger and stronger candidate.
She's been making a pretty compelling case for her candidacy. The problem is, I think you
can no longer make a compelling case for the math. The math is very, very hard for her.


BLITZER: Highlights from the other Sunday morning talk shows here on LATE EDITION, the
last word in Sunday talk.

Up next, Barack Obama told me John McCain is quote, "losing his bearings." Was it a
criticism of his opponent's age? We'll talk about the uproar over that remark and more when
we continue with our political panel. We'll be right back.


BLITZER: We're back with three of the best political team on television.

By the way, this is Marine One in Waco, Texas, right now, the president and Mrs. Bush
coming from the Crawford ranch. They'll be getting off Marine One momentarily. They'll be
walking over to Air Force One for the flight back to Andrews Air Force Base outside of
Washington, D.C.

We expect the president will be updating us on the wedding last night at the Crawford ranch,
his daughter, Jenna, getting married.

We haven't heard much about the wedding from the father of the bride or the mother of the
bride, but we might be hearing from them shortly. We'll keep those microphones open. As
soon as we heard from the president you'll be hearing from the president, as well.

Let's continue our conversation now with Bill Schneider, Jessica Yellin, and Ed Henry.

Ed, you're our White House correspondent. A very exciting moment for the president and the
whole first family.

HENRY: Absolutely. But he's been very reluctant, as has the first lady, in talking too much
about the wedding. Some people have been advising them to talk about it a little bit more. It's
very humanizing for a president to talk about his daughter, being father of the bride, a much
different context than all of the political battles here in Washington.
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But they've wanted to respect their daughter, Jenna's, privacy. She's a very private person,
for the most part. She's been out on a book tour, recently, though, and been a little bit public.
But she really wanted to keep the wedding itself very private, just limited mostly to family and
close friends. So this will be an interesting moment, to see them come out and finally talk

BLITZER: Historically, it's not every day that you see a daughter of a president getting

SCHNEIDER: No, it's happened a few times. I remember Lyndon Johnson, I think, was it?

HENRY: That's right, his daughter. SCHNEIDER: His daughter got married, and long ago,
Teddy Roosevelt's got married.


HENRY: Nixon's daughter, too, Tricia.

SCHNEIDER: Richard Nixon's daughter, of course. And those were White House weddings.
But Jenna didn't want a White House wedding. The president -- they did not have the press

That surprised me a bit, because the picture of the president giving away his daughter would
have been a very humanizing and touching moment. But I think he respected her desire for

BLITZER: Here's the president and Laura Bush. The proud parents -- and they're going to -- I
think -- we're told they're going to walk over to the microphones right now and share some of
their thoughts on what must be one of the most exciting days of their lives, last night. About
200 people gathered at the Crawford ranch for the wedding. It was relatively small, under the
circumstances, 200 people. It could have been a lot bigger, obviously. They decided -- made
a deliberate decision not to do it at the White House. Jenna Bush clearly wanted it at the
family ranch in Texas.

So let's listen to the proud parents of the bride and groom as they come over to the
microphones and share some thoughts on this day after what must have been one of the
most exciting moments of their lives.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Laura and I want to wish everybody a happy Mother's
Day. It's just a special day to give thanks to our moms. I appreciate the hard work that moms

And I understand that for some, however, Mother's Day is a sad day, for those who lost their
lives in Oklahoma and Missouri and Georgia because of the tornadoes, and wondering
whether or not tomorrow will be a bright and hopeful day. We send our prayers to those who
lost their lives and the families of those who lost their lives. And the federal government will
be moving hard to help. I'll be in touch with the governors to offer all the federal assistance
we can.

This Mother's Day weekend was awfully special for Laura and me. Our little girl, Jenna,
married a really good guy, Henry Hager. The wedding was spectacular. It's all we could have
hoped for. The weather cooperated nicely. And just as the vows were exchanged, the sun
set over our lake -- and just a special day and a wonderful day. And we're mighty blessed.

Anyway, thank you all.

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QUESTION: Were you up late partying?

FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH: Thanks a lot. QUESTION: Did you give the economy a boost?
Did the wedding give the economy a boost?

BLITZER: All right, the obligatory shouted questions from the reporters there. The president
and the first lady now walking on the tarmac. They'll be going up those stairs to Air Force
One to make the flight back to Washington.

Ed Henry is our White House correspondent. What do you think?

HENRY: Well, I think that shouted question about whether or not the wedding gave the
economy a boost, a little tongue-in-cheek, but the president, publicly, lately, has been a
talking a lot about writing a very big check for this wedding. So I thought that was a
humorous moment.

But, yes, you got to see him in a different way than we normally do. And that was obviously a
positive moment for him to talk about the family, talk about his daughter, as well as his wife,
here on Mother's Day.

But they have been very reluctant to talk about this. They're trying to give their daughter as
much privacy as possible. But there's obviously been a lot of national interest in this wedding.
So I think that short statement is, obviously, something, in context, to just, kind of, get out
there and mark the occasion.

BLITZER: Jessica Yellin is joining us, too.

Jessica, you've spent some time out there at the Crawford ranch. You know what's going on.
Give us a thought or two about this important day after for the president and the first lady.

YELLIN: Well, the president loves that ranch. And, you know, it's probably very meaningful to
him that his daughter chose to have it there instead of the White House.

But, bottom line, right now, all I want to know is what that wedding dress looks like, and when
are they going to release the photos?


BLITZER: We know it was an Oscar de la Renta. The first lady acknowledged that. We know
that. We do expect to get...

YELLIN: But the picture, Wolf.

BLITZER: We do expect to get the picture pretty soon. And, once we do, of course, the
whole world will see it.


I'm sure the bride looked beautiful in that dress. And it's going to be an exciting moment for
all of America and the world to see the bride and groom. What is the delay? Why are they
waiting so long to release the pictures?

HENRY: Well, in part, on the privacy grounds, I think that they're letting Jenna decide exactly
which White House photo they officially release. That would, I assume, be part of it.

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And you know, another thing we've been hearing recently is that, in private, the president has
been talking a lot about how he wants to have grandkids. And he's very excited about this.

It's something you don't get to hear in, you know, the context of politics. But he's going to be
leaving the stage in eight months or so. And he's been, you know, half-jokingly pushing his
daughter, ever so slightly, about the possibility of grandkids.

So, as he winds down, we're going to have a lot of political battles, a lot of talk about his
political legacy. But, obviously, on a personal basis, he's still father of the bride and
somebody looking forward to being grandpa some day.

BLITZER: And congratulations to the family and all the friends of this beautiful, beautiful bride
and groom.

All right, guys, thanks very much.

And that is your "Late Edition" for this Sunday, May 11. Please be sure to join us again next
Sunday and every Sunday at 11 a.m. Eastern for the last word in Sunday talk. Remember,
I'm also in "The Situation Room" Monday through Friday from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m. Eastern. And
at 7:00 p.m. on Tuesday, I'll be at the CNN Election Center, together with the best political
team on television, for complete coverage of the West Virginia primary.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. Happy Mother's Day to all the mothers out there.
I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

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               Interview With Hillary Clinton;
                           Interview With John Edwards
                               Aired May 18, 2008 - 11:00 ET


WOLF BLITZER, HOST: This is LATE EDITION, the last word in Sunday talk.

CLINTON: The delegate race for me is close. We have contests yet to go.

BLITZER (voice-over): Hillary Clinton gets an impressive win in West Virginia, but still faces
an uphill fight. The New York senator talks about her prospects for a come-from-behind
victory for the Democratic nomination, and more, in an interview.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA, D-ILL.: He accused me and other Democrats of wanting to
negotiate with terrorists.

BLITZER: Barack Obama takes on President Bush over national security.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZ.: By January 2013, America will welcome home most of the
service men and women who have sacrificed terribly.

BLITZER: While John McCain lays out his vision of his first term. We'll get insight and
analysis from former Democratic senator Gary Hart and former Reagan cabinet member and
CNN contributor Bill Bennett.

EDWARDS: The Democratic voters in America have made their choices. So have I.

BLITZER: John Edwards throws his support behind Barack Obama. The former Democratic
presidential candidate tells us why in an interview.

Plus, the latest on the race for the White House from three of the best political team on
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From record gas prices to the housing crisis, we'll discuss what's being done to help the U.S.
economy with Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez.

Ten years of LATE EDITION. We'll look back at my 2001 interview with then Israeli prime
minister Ariel Sharon. The first hour of LATE EDITION begins right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN in Washington, this is LATE EDITION
with Wolf Blitzer.

BLITZER: It's 11:00 a.m. here in Washington 8 a.m. in Los Angeles and p.m. in Baghdad.
Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us for LATE

We'll get to my interview with Senator Hillary Clinton in just a moment. But we begin with a
developing story we've been following here in the United States, Democratic Senator Ted
Kennedy in a Massachusetts hospital after suffering an apparent seizure. CNN's Deborah
Feyerick is in Boston, she's following the story for us. Deb, what is the latest?

FEYERICK: Well Wolf, the 76-year-old senator remains in serious condition. A spokesman
tells us that he got a good night's sleep, but today they're really expecting it to be very quiet.
The senator will be here for a couple of days according to the spokeswoman and his office
will continue running normally during his absence. Doctors still trying to figure out what
happened, what triggered the seizure, how to treat it, and whether in fact it's related in any
way to surgery that Senator Kennedy had seven months ago to remove a blockage from an
artery in his neck. That was picked up during routine screening. His wife Vicki Reggie
Kennedy was here all yesterday, late into the night. She's expected to return today. A couple
of other Kennedys in town. But right now, pretty quiet. Wolf?

BLITZER: Well, we wish him a speedy, speedy recovery. Deb, thanks very much.

Let's get to the race for the White House right now. Hillary Clinton had a huge victory in last
Tuesday's West Virginia primary. But she still faces an enormous challenge. I spoke with her
this week, the day after her primary win.


BLITZER: And joining us now, Senator Hillary Clinton of New York, the Democratic
presidential candidate. Senator Clinton, thanks very much for joining us.

CLINTON: Thank you very much.

BLITZER: Congratulations on your win yesterday in West Virginia. A big win for Senator

CLINTON: Well, it was a big win. And it was a very gratifying one because I had campaigned
hard there, and I think that the issues that I've been championing on the economy and health
care really resonated with the voters in West Virginia.

And as I have said many times in the last couple of weeks, no Democrat has won the White
House since 1916 without winning West Virginia. So I took that as a good sign.

BLITZER: You did well there. All right, let me get your reaction. The current issue of "TIME"

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magazine, which you've probably seen, you see a cover like this and it says, "And the Winner
Is...", and a little asterisk. What do you think when you see something like this?

CLINTON: I think it's a great picture of Barack. You know what I think? Is that this is the
closest election we've ever had that anybody can remember. Each of us has brought millions
of new people into the process. I think I've now been privileged to receive the votes of 17
million Americans.

And that's pretty much the same as Senator Obama. The delegate race remains close. We
have contests yet to go. People have been trying to end it. And the voters just won't let it

As a recent poll suggested, 64 percent of Democrats want to see this continue. And I think
for good reason, because it's one of the most substantive, exciting, energizing political
events I can remember in my lifetime.

And there is no winner yet. You have to have, now with the special election of a Democrat
from Mississippi, 2,210 delegates to actually stay...

BLITZER: You're including Florida and Michigan.

CLINTON: Which we have to. We have to include them.

BLITZER: Because in -- they're going to be meeting, the Rules Committee of the DNC...


BLITZER: ... May 31st.

CLINTON: That's right. BLITZER: They have to make a decision.


BLITZER: What do you want them to do?

CLINTON: Well, what I would want them to do is to seat the whole delegations based on the
votes that were taken, because I think the voters who came out, over 2.3 million of them in
both states, clearly believed that their votes would count. And they may have violated the
DNC rules, but other states did as well.

BLITZER: Because right now the DNC says that the number is, what, 2,025 or 2,026?

CLINTON: That's just not a practical answer. That would mean that only 48 states would
determine who the nominee of the Democratic Party is. And that's not the way the election

BLITZER: So you're staying in at least through May 31 and June 3...

CLINTON: That's right.

BLITZER: ... which is the last -- you're not going anywhere.

CLINTON: I'm not going anywhere, Wolf...

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BLITZER: All right.

CLINTON: ... except to Kentucky and Oregon and Montana and South Dakota, and Puerto

BLITZER: In these remaining states.

Let's talk about some of the issues, the key issues, the economic issues, issue No. 1, the
economy. Gas prices...


BLITZER: ... right now. You've said in recent days you want to get tough with the major oil
exporting countries, OPEC, because of the huge cost per barrel, the resultant price of a
gallon of gas.

But when you say get tough with OPEC, what does it mean when you have members of
OPEC like Ahmadinejad of Iran or Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, or Gaddafi of Libya? How do
you plan on getting tough with them?

CLINTON: Well, I actually have a four-part program that I would put into effect were I
president today to deal with these rising gas prices, which are going to hit $4 soon. And it's
an enormous burden on people who drive any considerable distance.

BLITZER: But what kind of leverage do you have on OPEC? CLINTON: Well, four things,
and I'll get to OPEC quickly. I would go after the energy traders and speculators. I think they
are adding to the cost of a barrel of oil. I believe there is significant evidence of that.

So I would launch a Department of Justice/Federal Trade Commission investigation and
really try to rein them in and close what's called the "Enron loophole." I approve and voted for
what the Congress did yesterday, which is to quit filling up the Strategic Petroleum Reserve,
and I would even release some money.

I have advocated a gas tax holiday that is paid for. That is not what Senator McCain wants.
He wants one that is not paid for. And Senator Obama doesn't want one at all. But I would
pay for it out of the record profits of the oil companies.

Nine countries that are members of OPEC are members of the WTO, the World Trade
Organization, where they have agreed to certain rules that I believe OPEC by definition
violates. Also, we have never used antitrust laws in our country to really go at the heart of
what is a monopoly cartel.

There is something fundamentally wrong and outdated in having the oil-producing countries
getting together a couple of times a year and saying, OK, here's how much we're going to
produce and here's how much we're going to charge for it. And I think there is enough market
power in the world, if we use the tools available to us, to rein that in.

BLITZER: Because Barack Obama says this...


OBAMA: You say you've been in the White House for eight years, you've had two terms as a
United States senator, and haven't said a word about OPEC. And now suddenly you're going
to take it right to OPEC?


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CLINTON: Well, he's wrong about that. I have voted, actually, in the Senate on several
occasions to try to get the president of the United States to do something about OPEC.
Obviously, President Bush wasn't inclined to do so, the Republican Congress before him was
not inclined to do so.

So we're going to have, I hope, a Democratic president and a Democratic Congress. That is
the time when we'll be able to take on this unfinished business when it comes to energy.

BLITZER: Looking back, did the Clinton administration, during eight years of your husband in
the White House, do enough toward energy independence?

CLINTON: Well, they certainly tried between both the president and the vice president. And
my husband often says laughingly that tax credits and energy programs were the only things
that he couldn't get the Republican Congress to even look at, because obviously they had a
very different view about what we should be doing.

But now I think it's clear to everyone, even the Republican nominee, Senator McCain, who
has been very eloquent in the last few days, talking about how we have to cap greenhouse
gas emissions, this is not a Republican or Democratic issue.

We need a long-term strategy, like the one I've outlined on my Web site,
You can read all about it. And we need a short-term strategy to try to provide relief to citizens
right now.

BLITZER: You were recently asked about your proposal to have a holiday on the gas tax.
And you would pay for it by having a windfall profit tax on ExxonMobil and some of the other
big oil companies. And then when you were pressed on economists who would endorse your
idea, you said you're not going to put your lot in with economists.


BLITZER: Which raised questions, are you not going to believe in what economists say?

CLINTON: No, but I think there's that old saying. You can find an economist to say nearly

Now, some of the economists were against it because they misunderstood my policy. They
thought it wasn't paid for. And I would agree with those who said we can't afford a gas tax
holiday that will add to the deficit, that will take money out of the highway trust fund. Others
are against the mechanism of a windfall profits tax. They think that doesn't necessarily work
well and that the cost will be passed on.

My attitude is I think we could design such a windfall profits tax that would work, that would
be enforceable and that would not be passed on. I have been advocating a windfall profits
tax on the oil companies to supplement a strategic energy fund that I have recommended for
more than three years, and it's because I think that there is such a disconnect between what
the oil companies have been raking in as profits and any comparable investment or effort
that they've made to produce those profits.

There does seem to me to be an opportunity here both to take away the subsidies for the oil
companies, which clearly don't need our tax dollars to make these huge profits, and to try to
impose a windfall profits tax.

BLITZER: But you will consult with economists...

CLINTON: Of course.

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BLITZER: ... you believe in economists, and if you're president of the United States you'll
work with economists, because when you said, "I'm not going to put your lot in with

CLINTON: Well, not totally. Not totally. You know, sometimes economists are not right. And I
think there are political...

BLITZER: But most of the economists have criticized your plan.

CLINTON: Well, again, some of them didn't understand it and some of them don't believe it
could be done. But you listen to all kinds of advisers, but then you have to try to make up
your mind. Franklin Roosevelt, during the New Deal, a lot of economists said that's a terrible
idea, you're going to be priming the pump, you're going to be putting people to work. That's a
terrible idea, that's a betrayal of the American capitalist system. But he said, you know we've
got to put people to work.
Well, I think we've got to reign in the oil companies. And there are certainly economically
appropriate ways of doing that.

BLITZER: When it comes to the war in Iraq, another issue on the minds of Americans right
now, you've criticized Senator McCain for suggesting U.S. troops could stay there perhaps
for 100 years. But you yourself back in 2005 suggested, you know what? If there's a peaceful
environment like along the lines of Korea or Germany or Okinawa, maybe it wouldn't be that
bad for a long-term U.S. military presence in that kind of environment.

Is the criticism of Senator McCain, who's made similar comments, is it warranted? CLINTON:
Well, I think it is for this reason, that there isn't any significant milestone that the Iraqi
government has met. It's a very different situation than Germany or Korea.

BLITZER: But if they were to meet those milestones and if there were a new peaceful

CLINTON: But Wolf, I don't think though -- I think you're confusing kind of cause and effect. I
don't believe that they will serious attempt to meet those milestones until they are absolutely
convinced we are going to withdraw. I believe that is the best way to focus their attention.

Everything we've tried, including the most recent effort with the surge, has not resulted in the
gains that were either hoped for or forecasted. I believe we've got to bring our troops home.
There are continuing missions -- guarding our embassy, Special Forces perhaps dealing with
al Qaeda -- but that's a very different scenario than what we have today. Therefore, I would
begin to bring our troops home.


BLITZER: Just ahead, more of my interview with Hillary Clinton. She gets emotional, you're
going to want to see why in part two of this interview. That's coming up next.

Also, this note. On Tuesday, I'll be with the best political team on television. We'll be bringing
you the results from the Kentucky and Oregon primaries. Our live coverage begins 7 p.m.
Eastern from the CNN Election Center. You're watching LATE EDITION, the last word in
Sunday talk.


BLITZER: Welcome back to LATE EDITION, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Coming up in
our next hour, John Edwards strongly defends Barack Obama's foreign policy credentials
and tells us why he decided to back his former Democratic rival. But right now, here's part
two of my interview with Senator Hillary Clinton.
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BLITZER: The Israelis are celebrating their 60th anniversary right now as an independent
state. Here is what McCain said about Barack Obama. And I want to get your reaction.

He said, "I think" -- this is McCain -- "I think it's very clear who Hamas wants to be the next
president of the United States. I think that people should understand that I will be Hamas'
worst nightmare. If Senator Obama is favored by Hamas, I think people can make judgments

McCain was referring to a statement by the North American spokesman for Hamas
endorsing, in effect, Barack Obama. Is McCain right? CLINTON: No, I think that that's really,
you know, just an overstatement, an exaggeration of any kind of, you know, political
meaning. And I don't think that anybody should take that seriously.
BLITZER: But you have confidence in Barack Obama as president would be a strong
supporter of Israel?

CLINTON: I would -- yes, I do. I would believe that that would be the policy of the United
States, and it's been our policy for 60 years.

BLITZER: Because the criticism he gets from McCain and his supporters -- McCain's
supporters -- is that he would be willing to meet unconditionally with the leader of Iran,
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and given the statements that Ahmadinejad has made about
destroying Israel, that doesn't -- that doesn't reassure, let's say, Israel.

CLINTON: Well, I think that's a different issue. You know, I objected when that statement
was made back in an early debate, because I don't believe that a United States president
should commit to meet unconditionally with leaders of rogue nations. That doesn't mean you
don't eventually meet with them under appropriate circumstances, but not without conditions.

BLITZER: Let's talk about an issue that's come up in this campaign. The issue of race in the
campaign. You were widely quoted in that "USA Today" interview.


CLINTON: There was just an "A.P." article posted that found how Senator Obama's support
among working -- hard working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how
the -- you know, whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me. I
have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on.

(END AUDIO CLIP) BLITZER: Now, your great friend and supporter, Congressman Charlie
Rangel, said -- and I'm quoting now -- "It's the dumbest thing you could have said."

CLINTON: Well, he's probably right.

BLITZER: Oh, he is? All right. Well, explain.

CLINTON: Well, absolutely. Well, I was -- I was referencing an AP article, and, you know,
obviously I have worked very hard to get the votes of everyone. And I have campaigned
hard, I understand that we've got to put together a broad coalition in order to win in the fall.
We've got to get to that 270 electoral vote margin. And I know Senator Obama has worked
hard to reach out to every community and constituency.

So I'm going to continue to do that. That's what I think is in the best interest of our party and
that's how we will win in November.

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BLITZER: Well, as someone who has championed civil rights all of these years, and you see
all these stories coming up, and he's getting 90 percent of the African-American vote, you're
doing well with these white working class voters, as you did in West Virginia, for example,
Pennsylvania, in Ohio, how does that make you feel when you see this issue all of a sudden
explode out there?

CLINTON: Well, I obviously regret people exploding an issue like that, because I think it's not
only unfounded, but, you know, it's offensive.

I think people vote for me because they think I'd be the better president. I think people vote
for him because they think he'd be the better president.

I think people vote for me because they believe I'll fight for them. I think they vote for each of
us for whatever combination of reasons that appeal to the individual voter. That's the way it's
supposed to be in America.

And I've worked very hard to make it clear to people in this campaign that we need a
champion back in the White House. I am not one who believes that we're going to be able to
come to Washington in 2009, hold hands with everybody, and take on the drug companies
and the oil companies and the health insurance companies and everything we have to do,
and that, just, somehow that will all happen.

I think politics is the hard boring of hard boards, as Max Faber said. And from my
perspective, people who know how hard it will be to create the changes we need are
attracted to my candidacy, people who feel that, maybe, life hasn't been fair, the odds are
stacked against them. They want somebody who's going to go to bat for them.

BLITZER: At, we invited people to submit a question through our i-
reporters. A couple came in that I want to play for you, to get your brief response.

This one was from someone named Billy Sutton (ph). He's a Clinton supporter turned Obama
supporter. But watch this.


(UNKNOWN): Senator Clinton, I have a question for you. I was wondering, why do you
believe that so many of your strongest Democratic supporters say that they would vote for
Senator McCain over Senator Obama in the fall, if you were not to win the nomination?


CLINTON: Well, I've heard that from both my supporters and Senator Obama's supporters.

BLITZER: Because the exit polls showed that, a bug chunk of them.

CLINTON: Right, that both his supporters and my supporters might stay home or not vote for
the other. And I just have to say, as strongly as I can, Billy, that that would be a terrible
mistake. Anybody who has ever voted for me or voted for Barack has much more in
common, in terms of what we want to see happen in our country and in the world, with the
other than they do with John McCain.

So I'm going to work my heart out for whoever our nominee is. Obviously, I'm still hoping to
be that nominee.

But I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that anyone who supported me, the 17
million people who have voted for me, understand what a grave error it would be not to vote
for Senator McCain -- Senator Obama, and against Senator McCain. And I know that
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Senator Obama has said that he will do the same to campaign for me.

So, you know, in the heat of a primary campaign, people get -- their passions are high. They
feel intensely. That's all understandable. But once we have a nominee, we're going to have a
unified Democratic Party.

BLITZER: Because Mario Cuomo, the former governor of New York, among others, says the
best way to heal this Democratic Party, irrespective of who gets the nomination, is for the two
of you to be on the ticket.

CLINTON: I know. I think he made a speech or wrote something to that effect. And it's
premature for either of us to talk about that. I think both of us are committed to doing
everything we can to win in the fall. I certainly am.

And I will do -- I mean, I will do whatever it takes. Because I know what four more years of
basically the same Bush policies would mean to America, even though they would be carried
out by someone else. They are more of the same. And we cannot afford that.

BLITZER: We also got a variant of this question from a lot of our viewers. This is from a
McCain supporter. He asked this question.


(UNKNOWN): Why do you continue to stay in this race for the Democratic nomination?

Barack Obama is well ahead of you in the delegates, and now ahead of you in the
superdelegates. Many of them have switched to him after he won by a large margin over you
in the North Carolina primaries last week.


CLINTON: Well, I'm really touched that a McCain supporter would be so concerned about
our primary. But let me say that, after my big win last night in West Virginia, the delegate
difference is extremely narrow. It is -- you know, people have gone to conventions and fought
out nominations with far fewer delegates. We have a close, close race here. And it is a
matter of inches. And we're going to keep going until someone gets 2,210 delegates. That's
the way our system works.

BLITZER: John Edwards says he gives you a lot of credit for being willing to stick in there
and fight it out. He, as you know, dropped out. And I guess the question is, how do you do it
every single day?

CLINTON: You know, Wolf, something happens every single day that just lifts my spirits and
energizes me. A lot of the people who have worked their hearts out for me in this primary
season -- they're not quitters in their own lives.

I mean, the single mom in Indianapolis who's never given money to anybody, and gives me
$20 a month out of her paycheck, and goes to my headquarters every lunch hour to work for
me, or the little boy who sells his bicycle, from Kentucky, or the 88-year-old woman dying in a
hospice in South Dakota who just demands that her daughter bring her an absentee ballot.

I mean, these are people who I feel like I'm representing, and that I have a very personal
connection to. So, you know, I don't believe in quitting. You may not win in life, but you do the
best you can. You go the distance. You don't walk off the court before the buzzer sounds.

You never know. You might get a three-point shot at the end. And so we're going to finish
this process. It's been a privilege and an honor to have met so many Americans, been to so
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many of the beautiful places in this country. And I feel like I'm doing it for the right reasons.
And I still believe I'd be the better president and the stronger candidate against Senator

BLITZER: We have one final question, because we're out of time. And it involves your
daughter Chelsea. I've been watching her since she was a little girl. She came to Washington
back in '93, in the '92 campaign, and now she's a grown woman. And she's out there
campaigning for you every single day. I think she's in Puerto Rico right now. And I know you
talk to her every single day.

CLINTON: Right. Right.

BLITZER: And, you know, what goes through your mind when you -- when you have your
own daughter out there, working as hard for you as she is?

CLINTON: Well, it's one of the most incredibly gratifying experiences of my life, as a person,
and as a mother. It's going to make me get very emotional.

She is an exceptional person. And she's worked so hard, and she's done such a good job
that I'm just filled with pride every time I look at her.

You know, obviously, we are very close. We are in communication all the time. But, you
know, she is doing this because she believes I'd be a good president but also because she
cares so much about our country's future. She did grow up in the White House. She knows
what a difference a president makes. If anybody ever doubted what difference a president
makes, after seven years of George Bush, I think the doubts should be put to rest.

So she's doing it because she's my daughter, but she's doing it because, as she says, she's
a young American who cares about our future.

BLITZER: And she's doing it because she loves you.

CLINTON: Absolutely.

BLITZER: Senator Clinton, thanks very much.

CLINTON: Thanks.

BLITZER: And coming up, Gary Hart and Bill Bennett take opposite sides on President
Bush's very controversial "appeasement" remarks in the Knesset in Jerusalem. We'll have a
full discussion of that.

But first, we'll get an update on the speech the president gave this morning, in Egypt, on his
final day in the Middle East. Stay with us. "Late Edition" continues right after this.


BLITZER: Welcome back to LATE EDITION, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. We'll get to my
interviews with the former senator Gary Hart and CNN contributor Bill Bennett in just a

First, though, Fredricka Whitfield is at the LATE EDITION update desk with some other
stories we're following right now. Fred, what's going on?


BLITZER: Amazing stories of survival. Thanks, Fred, very much.
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Speaking in Israel this week, President Bush stirred up a firestorm in the U.S. presidential
race. We'll talk about the controversy with former senator Gary hart. He's an Obama
supporter, when LATE EDITION continues.



BUSH: Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if
some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along. We've heard
this foolish delusion before. We have an obligation to call this what it is -- the false comfort of
appeasement which has been repeatedly discredited by history.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: That was President Bush in a major speech before the Israeli
Knesset on Thursday, marking Israel's 60th anniversary of its independence. A lot of people
suggest he was referring directly to Barack Obama and that sparked a huge political fire fight
over U.S. policy. Let's discuss this and more. Joining us from Denver, the former Colorado
senator, Gary Hart. He's now supporting Barack Obama. Senator, thanks very much for
joining us.

HART: Great pleasure, thank you.

BLITZER: When you heard those very strong words from President Bush, what went through
your mind?

HART: Well, it was highly inappropriate on multiple levels. First of all, the unwritten rule in
American politics is you don't go abroad to engage in American domestic politics, particularly
at the presidential level.

Second, the occasion was totally wrong. This was a celebration of Israel's 60th anniversary.
And to inflame an occasion like that with words like appeasement is just totally out of bounds.

Third, we all know that the administration has had contact with and is advocating contact with
Hamas and other organizations.

So it was incredibly hypocritical. And then finally, the White House press office, when people
responded on this side of the waters so vehemently, were disingenuous at least by saying at
least, well, if the president was talking about anyone, he was talking about Jimmy Carter.
Well, that's just -- we know that's totally false.

BLITZER: How do we know that?

HART: First of all, if he was talking about Jimmy Carter, it was still wrong for all the reasons
I've stated. And Jimmy Carter's not running for president. John McCain's already attacked
Barack Obama as saying he's the candidate from Hamas. And so I think this was all part of
the McCain campaign.

BLITZER: When Barack Obama responded very angrily to what the president suggested, or
implied in his remarks in the Knesset, John McCain didn't waste any time in going directly
after Barack Obama. Listen to this.


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MCCAIN: It was a serious error on the part of Senator Obama. It shows naivete and
inexperience and lack of judgment to say that he wants to sit down across the table from an
individual who leads a country that says Israel is a sinking corpse, that is dedicated to the
extinction of the state of Israel.


BLITZER: Senator Barack Obama has been on record several times saying he would sit
down with the president of Iran without pre- conditions. Is McCain wrong there?

HART: My guess is, without discussing it with Senator Obama, he is talking about an
administration negotiating. Now, if that led to heads of state discussing to wrap up a deal,
that's been done throughout American history. Keep in mind that as early as John Adams
and Thomas Jefferson, they negotiated with the al Qaeda of their day, the Barbary pirates
before finally attacking them.

So we've had administrations, highly reputable administrations discuss differences with all
kinds of states and organizations throughout our history. I think Barack Obama was simply
saying he would be willing to explore, his administration would be willing to explore whether
or not differences could be discussed. John McCain knows that. BLITZER: But the question
he was specifically asked at one of the presidential debates is, would you personally as
president, be willing to sit down with these leaders, whether leaders of North Korea or
Venezuela or Cuba or Iran without pre-conditions, in your first year of president, that was the
specific question, he said yes. He later expanded. He said that there would be preparations
that would have to be done by lower-level officials. But he was saying without pre-conditions,
he personally would be willing to do so.

HART: Well, it depends on how you define pre-conditions. I've been in those debates, and
everything gets compressed. I don't think Barack Obama or any other president's going to
meet with a head of state without lower-level discussions preceding that. It doesn't lead to
anything. What you do is send diplomats and negotiators to explore areas of mutual interest.
And if it does seem profitable, then you go to the heads of state. We did this with the Soviets
throughout the Cold War. Richard Nixon did it with the Chinese. And the preparations led up
to those discussions.

BLITZER: Because both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, among other Democratic presidential
candidates of the time, they criticized Barack Obama for that flat statement that he had

Let me ask you about the politics of all of this. It seems the Republicans would very much
like to once again project the Democratic presidential candidate as weak on national security,
soft on defense. This goes back to basically 1972, when McGovern was running for
president. They've had a pretty good track record in making that argument. How worried are
you that McCain and his supporters would succeed in making that argument against Barack

HART: Actually, it goes back earlier than that. This was exactly the case made against John
Kennedy, who, as we know, led this country a couple of years after that election through the
most critical era of its history.

HART: And that was the Cuban missile crisis. So youth and inexperience was the charge
Nixon made against Kennedy and they proved to be false.

BLITZER: But they may have proved to be false, but it's been a successful argument that the
Republicans have made. And now they go one step further, the McCain camp, and say, this
is his strength, national security, John McCain. The Democrats want to fight on his turf,
national security. They're a lot better off doing than, let's say, on the economy.
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HART: A lot of us supporting Barack Obama have pretty long history of experience in
national security matters. And I for one would yield to no one in this country in terms of my
commitment to this country's national security, and new ways to achieve it. We're not living in
the Cold War anymore. And to pretend that simply spending a lot more money on the
Pentagon is going to make us safer was proved false by 9/11. This was an administration
that was warned that terrorists were going to attack this country, and they did nothing. I am
not going to listen to anybody in this administration talk about Democrats being weak on
national security. They let this country down.

BLITZER: Senator Hart, thanks for coming in.

HART: Pleasure.

BLITZER: And just ahead, we'll get a very different perspective from former Reagan cabinet
secretary and CNN contributor Bill Bennett. He'll be here as LATE EDITION continues right
after this.



OBAMA: He accused me and other Democrats of wanting to negotiate with terrorists, and
said we were appeasers, no different from people who appease Adolf Hitler. George Bush
said in front of the Israeli parliament. Now, that's exactly the kind of appalling attack that's
divided our country and that alienates us from the world.


BLITZER: That was Senator Barack Obama on Friday, responding directly to President
Bush. We just spoke about that with Obama supporter Gary Hart. Let's get the Republican
point of view right now from Bill Bennett. He's a former Reagan cabinet secretary, a CNN
contributor. He's a strong supporter of John McCain, has a morning radio show as well.
You're a busy guy.

BENNETT: Yes, sir.

BLITZER: Thanks very much for coming in.

BENNETT: Work Sundays like you.

BLITZER: Was it appropriate for the president of the United States to go before the Knesset
and make that charge against Barack Obama and Democrats?

BENNETT: Yes, and let me tell you why for two reasons that I think so. One, this is the 60th
anniversary of Israel, and it's appropriate to talk about appeasement. Because of
appeasement, Israel is still under threat and it's still under threat. Second, he didn't mention
Democrats. He didn't say Democrats, he didn't say Obama, he didn't say Carter.

BLITZER: Do you have any doubt that he's referring to them?

BENNETT: I have no doubt they're included in a larger group. You could also include in that
group members of Tony Blair's cabinet, probably James Baker, who recommended in the
Iraq Study Group meetings with Syria, Iran, and so on. What he was arguing against was a

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policy position, a position which endangers Israel. Which is to meet with dictators, increase
their profile, increase their prestige, undermine opposition. But the touchiness, the immediate
reaction of Senator Obama, the touchiness of Senator Hart shows you -- the point you make,
that they feel very vulnerable on this issue, as they should.

BLITZER: On national security.


BLITZER: In his speech on Friday, Barack Obama went right after not only President Bush,
but also John McCain in saying, you want to debate national security and foreign policy, in
effect he said bring it on. I'll play this little clip of what he said.



OBAMA: Those are the failed policies that John McCain wants to double down on. Because
he still hasn't spelled out one substantial way in which he would be different from George
Bush when it comes to foreign policy.


BLITZER: Now, among other things, he pointed out, he said that Iran is now stronger than it
was earlier. Israel as a result strategically weaker. Hamas, Hezbollah, al Qaeda all stronger.
The United States quagmired right now in a war in Iraq. He said, if you want to talk about the
record of the last eight years, go ahead. Because he's ready to take on McCain.

BENNETT: Well no one has been more critical of the president's foreign policy in Iraq than
John McCain. And directly in terms of how that war is going. He was critical early on and
remained critical.

BLITZER: Right now he supports...

BENNETT: Because the president has bought the McCain recommendation of the surge.
Yes, I would be tougher on Iran and I would be tougher on Hamas. And I think that McCain
will be. But the one thing you can't say about John McCain, which Democrats will try to say,
is that he's indistinguishable from George Bush.

BLITZER: A third term of George Bush. That's the argument they'll make on economic issues
and on national security issues. BENNETT: Right. The other thing I just want to mention,
back to Israel, it was interesting when the president gave those remarks, I noticed those
people applauding the president's remarks, one of them was Elie Wiesel, applauding the
president's remarks.

BLITZER: The Holocaust survivor.

BENNETT: Right, hardly a Republican, but someone who understand that to appease
terrorists and the dictators is to hurt the cause of Israel.

BLITZER: Well, he may not necessarily have been politically sensitive enough to assume
that the president's referring to Barack Obama.

BENNETT: I have been in meetings with Elie Wiesel in the White House, as you have been.
He's a pretty politically attuned guy.

BLITZER: When Obama says that McCain wants to double down on Bush's national security
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policies, because he doesn't see any substantial difference, do you see right now any
substantial difference on national security between John McCain and George Bush?

BENNETT: Well, no, I think that on the issue at hand, which is when you negotiate with
terrorists, you negotiate with leaders of terrorist states, no. But I do think as McCain has
signaled by his criticism of George Bush that he will be tougher on Iran, he will be tougher on
Hamas. I think he'll take on other issues. He's a much more confident guy in foreign policy. If
the Democrats want to have a debate about foreign policy and national security, if that's
where they want to have a major debate for this election, I think John McCain will welcome it.

BLITZER: Here's what Barack Obama said at the CNN/Univision debate on February 21st,
explaining his theory about a dialogue with tyrants and others. Listen to this.


OBAMA: If we think that meeting with the president is a privilege that has to be earned, I
think that reinforces the sense that we stand above the rest of the world. At this point in time.
And I think that it's important for us in undoing the damage that has been done over the last
seven years.


BLITZER: But even in recent days, the Defense Secretary Robert Gates has suggested that
these kinds of meetings, dialogues with Iran and other countries, and the U.S. has been
engaged in direct dialogue with North Korea for some time, I don't know how successful it's
been, but it's going on, what's wrong with what Barack Obama is suggesting?

BENNETT: Well, a couple things. First of all, there's a difference between negotiations at
some level, State Departments to their State Department or whatever equivalent
organizations and president to president.

BENNETT: When you sit down with Ahmadinejad, you increase his stature and prestige. You
don't want to do that.

Also, the Obama campaign has said not pre-conditions, but some other word they've used. I
can't remember...

BLITZER: There would be preparations, but there would be no pre- conditions.

BENNETT: What's the difference between that? This seems to be a hedge. But it's in that
very quote, Wolf, I think you see the problem, when he says when people believe it's some
kind of privilege to meet with the president. It should be a privilege to meet with the
president. I was in the cabinet, always regarded it as a privilege to meet with the president.
He says that's because we think we're somehow better than other countries.

We are in fact better than other countries. That is the problem. And just take this debate to
another level. Does Barack Obama not believe that we are superior to these other countries?
Is that why he's so ready to deal at the lowest common denominator?

BLITZER: All right. Let me just get your quick reaction to another setback the Republicans
suffered, Mississippi congressional election this past week. That seat had long been held by
Republicans, the third straight special election in which the Republicans have suffered.

Here's Tom Davis. He's a Republican congressman, retiring, who summarized the

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Republican stand, the Republican position right now.


REP. TOM DAVIS (R), VIRGINIA: At the congressional level at this point, the reputation is
just in the trash can. And the Republican brand name, if you were to put this on a dog food,
the owners would just take it off the shelf, because nobody's buying it.


BLITZER: Newt Gingrich, the former speaker, had similar words, saying the Republicans
right now are in deep trouble. How much trouble are they in?

BENNETT: Well, this is almost a unanimous resolution. The problem is that a lot of
Republicans say we're in serious trouble, we're doing the wrong thing, and they vote for
something like this farm bill. So they've got to stop behaving this way if they condemn that
kind of action. This is what you call cognitive dissonance, you know, not reacting to your
criticism of yourself. They have got to make clear what their priorities are. They've got to
come up with a sound agenda.

John McCain, interestingly, seems to be escaping a lot of this wrath and is still, despite all
the problems of the Republican Party, running close to even with Obama. So the notion that
he is the same as George Bush does not seem one that's persuasive to the American
people. Republicans have a lot of work to do.

BLITZER: Bill Bennett, thanks very much for coming in.

BENNETT: My pleasure.

BLITZER: Bill Bennett is our CNN contributor. Appreciate it.

Coming up, we're standing by. We're going to be speaking with John Edwards at the top of
the hour. Much more of "Late Edition" right after this.


BLITZER: In response to President Bush's appeasement comments, the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee Chairman Joe Biden hit back hard, using some very tough language to
describe the president's remarks.


malarkey. This is outrageous.


BLITZER: I late spoke with Senator Biden in "The Situation Room."


BIDEN: ... use that word. I came off the elevator and I was confronted with what had
happened, and I responded. I should have just said malarkey. But the essence of what I was
saying is absolutely accurate. This is outrageous.

BLITZER: Why is it outrageous?

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BIDEN: Two reasons. One is, it's a disturbing pattern. Here you have the presumptive
nominee last week saying that Danny Ortega and Hamas likes the Democratic nominee.
Draw your own conclusions. Then President Bush goes to a foreign country, addressing the
Knesset and makes a veiled and totally inaccurate assumption, and comment that Barack
Obama -- not using his name -- is ready to engage in appeasement, when in fact it's
absolutely outrageous. Here's the president of the United States, criticizing and calling
appeasement, the willingness to sit down and talk with Iran about what our mutual interests
are, and what the problem they're creating for us.

And it's the same president who apparently doesn't know his secretary of defense, Secretary
Gates says we should sit down with Iran. The secretary of state says we should sit down with
Iran. They've been explicit about it. If I had time, I would read their quotes to you. Is he going
to fire them when they come home? The disingenuous part here, Wolf, is, if that's
appeasement, then he's the biggest appeaser we've had in modern history. What did he do?
He sat down with Gadhafi -- that is, the administration did -- and they cut a deal with Gadhafi,
a known terrorist, a guy who in fact killed Syracuse University alumni like me, at the school I
went to, shooting down and taking down a plane -- not shooting down, blowing up a plane.
And what did he do? He made a deal with him.

It was the right thing to do, but he made a deal.

And what else did he do? We have a very talented State Department guy negotiating right
now, head-to-head with the North Koreans. Kim Jong Il has been part of making sure the
proliferation of weapons of mass destruction around the world, yet we're making a deal. How
do you square those two things?


BLITZER: Straight ahead, we'll hear from former Democratic presidential candidate John
Edwards. We'll talk about his decision to endorse Barack Obama. Lots more "Late Edition"
coming up at the top of the hour.


BLITZER: This is LATE EDITION, the last word in Sunday talk.


EDWARDS: There is one man who knows and understands that this is a time for bold

BLITZER: John Edwards endorses his former rival Barack Obama. The former Democratic
presidential candidate talks about the race ahead in an interview.

MCCAIN: Senator Obama wants to have direct talks with the president of Iran.

BLITZER: John McCain spars with the Democratic frontrunner over U.S. policy in the Middle

CLINTON: I am more determined than ever to carry on this campaign.

BLITZER: While Hillary Clinton hopes to follow up her West Virginia win with another big
victory in Tuesday's primaries.

We'll assess the race for the White House with three of the best political team on television.

Plus, an ailing U.S. economy. We'll discuss the number one issue for U.S. voters with
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Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez. LATE EDITION's second hour begins right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN in Washington, this is LATE EDITION
with Wolf Blitzer.

BLITZER: Welcome back to the second hour of LATE EDITION. We'll get to my interview
with former senator John Edwards in just a moment. First though, we want to update you on
the developing story we've been following. Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy hospitalized
after an apparent seizure. Let's go back to CNN's Deborah Feyerick. She's outside
Massachusetts General Hospital out in Boston where the senator spent the night. What do
we know, Deb?

FEYERICK: Well, Wolf, doctors right now trying to determine exactly what caused that
seizure. The 76-year-old senator remains in serious condition, but his doctor did rule out a
stroke, according to preliminary tests. But the senator still has a lot more tests to undergo.

Remember, he did have surgery seven months ago to remove a blockage from an artery in
his neck and the doctors want to just see, whether this particular incident is in any way
connected. His spokesperson says that Kennedy will be here for the next couple days and
his office will run as it normally does in his absence.

The spokesperson said that the senator did get a good night's rest, that he's resting
comfortably and they're really expecting it to be a pretty quiet day. The senator yesterday
was supposed to host an event run by his family, the Best Buddies charity. That event did go
on without him while he was that hospital. Right now the senator resting comfortably
expecting to just take it easy and see how the day goes. Wolf?

BLITZER: We certainly wish him a very, very speedy recovery. Thanks very much, Deb
Feyerick up in Boston for us.

Coming off a staggering 41-point loss to Hillary Clinton in West Virginia, Barack Obama got a
big boost when he received the endorsement of former Democratic presidential candidate
John Edwards. When I interviewed Senator Edwards earlier this week, we spoke about that
but we started by talking about John McCain's recent attacks on Barack Obama's foreign


BLITZER: Joining us now, Obama's most important new supporter, the former Democratic
presidential candidate, the former U.S. Senator John Edwards.

Senator Edwards, thanks very much for joining us.

EDWARDS: Thanks, Wolf. Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: I want to play this little clip.

John McCain, just a little while ago, responded to this uproar involving the appeasement
comments. And he directly responded to Barack Obama's earlier statement from today.
Listen to this.


MCCAIN: I have some news for Senator Obama. Talking, not even with soaring rhetoric,

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unconditional, in unconditional meetings with the man who calls Israel a stinking corpse, and
arms terrorists who kill Americans, will not convince Iran to give up its nuclear program. It is

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: And that was just the beginning. I don't know if you had a
chance to hear his speech. But he is certainly not backing down at all.

I wonder if you want to weigh in.

EDWARDS: Well, I mean, first of all, I think, from a more thoughtful perspective, instead of all
this anger, I think that, number one, it really is beneath the dignity of the president of the
United States to make these kind of cheap political statements when he's in Israel
celebrating the 60th anniversary of an extraordinary country.

And, in the history of the United States, the president does not do these kind of things. That's

And then, secondly, it's an amazing thing to listen to the continuation of fearmongering. We
saw it back in 2004, when I was running for vice president, trying to scare the American
people into believing the only -- if you elect a Democrat, it's going to be a disaster for the

It is utter nonsense. And, luckily, we're now in a very different place. I mean, we know what
the American people think of George Bush. We know what they think of this mess of a war in
Iraq. And his foreign policy, Wolf, has been a complete and utter disaster.

And moving to the more important thing for this election, since Bush is not running in this
election, is, John McCain embraces it. It is -- the McCain foreign policy is virtually identical to
the George Bush foreign policy.

And if you think about those two things in combination, and compare it to what's happened
over the last eight years, anybody in America paying attention knows we need a change.
That's what Senator Obama's going to bring.

And I would add, just as an afterthought, what we really need is visionary leadership that
understands the importance of American strength, but also understands that, if we don't work
and cooperate and engage in serious, principled diplomacy with the rest of the world, the
huge problems facing America and the rest of the world, from climate change, to extreme
poverty, all these issues that we're faced with, cannot be solved.

BLITZER: All right. Well, what about the argument they make that Barack Obama -- and you
were at one of those debates -- said he would meet unconditionally with tyrants, like
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, without preconditions? Those were his words.

And you hear the response from President Bush and John McCain. What are they going to
talk about with someone who calls Israel a stinking corpse?

EDWARDS: Well, we all think exactly the same thing about Ahmadinejad.

I actually have discussed this issue in depth with Senator Obama. His view about this is, I
think, virtually identical to mine and to Senator Clinton's, which is that all the work would have
to be done to ensure that something constructive could come out of such a meeting.

But, in the history of America, Wolf, we have been successful -- look at what's happened -- I

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will just give you an example. The Bush administration and George Bush derides Senator
Obama, although not by name -- they were clearly referring to him -- and, at the same time,
over the last couple of years, one of the great foreign policy achievements that they're now
talking about is what's happened with North Korea.

That was the direct result of direct discussions between the United States of America and
North Korea and the leadership of North Korea, one of the countries in the axis of evil.

This administration engages in ongoing contact with the leadership of Iran. They do it all the
time. And the notion that we're not going to engage our enemies is utter nonsense. And what
we have to do is, we have to do it in a thoughtful, responsible way. That is exactly what
Barack Obama is talking about doing.

And this is -- the American people are going to have a dramatic choice come this November.
If they want four more years of George Bush, then they ought to vote for John McCain. If
they believe we can do better than this, they ought to vote for Barack Obama.

BLITZER: I guess there's one thing about -- one point about having a diplomatic dialogue at
relatively lower levels or senior levels, but it's another thing for the president of the United
States to be willing to meet unconditionally with another tyrant, if you will.

And that's the criticism that McCain keeps making about Barack Obama. Hillary Clinton
herself, at one of those debates -- I don't remember if you did -- said she thought it was naive
or inappropriate to make a flat-out commitment like that. I'm sure you remember the

EDWARDS: Well, first of all, Wolf, that's not what George Bush said.

What George Bush said is that what we were talking about doing, the Democrats, was
effectively appeasement. And then he compared it to what happened with Hitler just before
World War II.

I mean, that's an extraordinary and deplorable thing to say. It really is, especially coming
from a man who's been an absolute disaster, arguably the worst president in American
history on foreign policy. And, so, that's the first thing.

And then John McCain defends him. I mean, I think that what Senator Obama is saying, if --
instead of engaging in this high-level political rhetoric, angry political rhetoric, what Senator
Obama's saying is actually very thoughtful.

What he's saying is, we're going to continue to engage countries like Iran, that we don't have
a friendly relationship with, at a diplomatic level. And if it appears that it would be useful for
me as president to meet with the leader of any other country, then I will make that decision
and judgment at the time. And if I think it's useful, I will do it.

What in the world is wrong with that? That makes all the sense in the world.

BLITZER: Some of us were surprised, Senator Edwards. Monday night, you were on
"LARRY KING LIVE" and you said you weren't ready to endorse anyone. Wednesday night,
you appear in Grand Rapids, Michigan, with Barack Obama and make this endorsement.

What happened in between to convince you it was time to go public?

EDWARDS: Well, I had made the decision about who I would support, because, for one
thing, I had to vote in the North Carolina primary. And I voted for Senator Obama in the North
Carolina primary.

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But I just came to the conclusion, basically, in the 24 hours before we made the
announcement on Wednesday night in Grand Rapids, Michigan, that it was time for me to
speak out. It was more gut than anything else.

BLITZER: And what about Elizabeth, your wife? Is she on board with you? Is she formally
part of the endorsement of Barack Obama?

EDWARDS: Elizabeth, I think, announced months ago publicly that she was not going to
make an endorsement, that she had a very high opinion of both of these candidates.

EDWARDS: And she decided it was more important, particularly because she's so interested
in the health care issue, that she stay focused on that, and not on either of these candidates,
particularly since we had such good candidates.

BLITZER: Both of you had suggested that, on health care, you were closer to Hillary Clinton's
plan than Barack Obama's plan. Is that still true as far as that one issue is concerned?

EDWARDS: Senator Clinton's plan was virtually identical to my plan. So, yes, that is true. But
I have talked to Senator Obama about this, and I have absolutely no doubt about his
commitment to achieving universal health care. He cares deeply about it. He's worked on it
for a very long time. And I'm totally convinced about his resolve and his determination about

BLITZER: I'm sure you had a lot of conversations with him leading up to the endorsement.

I remember the exchange you had with him when I moderated that debate in Myrtle Beach,
South Carolina. I'm going to play a little clip of that and I want to see if you -- if the two of you
have made up on this issue.


EDWARDS: The question is, why would you over 100 times vote present? I mean, every one
of us -- every one -- you have criticized Hillary. you have criticized me for our votes.

OBAMA: Right.

EDWARDS: We have cast hundreds and hundreds of votes. What you're criticizing her for,
by the way, you have done to us.


BLITZER: I'm sure you remember that exchange.

EDWARDS: Oh, yes. It wasn't the only one we had.


EDWARDS: You know, we were in a tough, competitive race, Wolf. That's what's been going
on with Senator Clinton and Senator Obama over the last few months, but that went on for
over a year.

I was fighting for the nomination with everything I had, trying to do it honestly and with
principle, but challenging him in ways that I thought were legitimate. He did the same thing
with me, by the way.

But, at the end of the day -- and I do -- I just have to say -- you haven't asked me about this,
but I feel the need to say it. The extent to which I admire and am impressed with Senator
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Clinton has done nothing but grow since I have gotten out of this race. I have gotten to know
her better, talked to her on the phone many times. She's been to visit and talk with me.

She is a fine human being and she -- and an extraordinary leader for the country. But I do
believe that, given where we are, where America is at this time in its history, that we
desperately need a change agent as president. And I think Senator Obama is in a great
position to give us that chance.

BLITZER: I know you have effectively ruled yourself out as a possible vice presidential
nominee. You have been there. You have done that, as all of us remember.

What about Hillary Clinton? You have been effusive in your praise for her. Would that help
unite the party, to see Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton on that ticket together?

EDWARDS: You know, I'm just not presumptuous enough to suggest to either Senator
Clinton or Senator Obama what they should do about that.

I think that that's a judgment that -- I believe Senator Obama will be the nominee -- that I
believe Senator Obama will have to make, with all things considered. And Senator Clinton, if
it were offered to her, would have to decide whether she wants to do it. Any leadership
position that Senator Clinton can occupy in the United States of America is good for this


BLITZER: And up next, does the Bush administration have a plan to help families here in the
United States that are feeling the squeeze from high food and oil prices? We'll speak live with
the Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez. He's right here. He's also got a new initiative he's
working on on Cuba. Stay with LATE EDITION. We'll be right back.


BLITZER: Welcome back. Many consumers here in the United States are feeling a heavy
burden right now from those rising prices due in large part to the record highs in the oil
market. Food prices going way up, as well. Let's talk about the state of the U.S. economy
and much more. Joining us is the commerce secretary, Carlos Gutierrez. Mr. Secretary,
thanks very much for coming in.

I know you have a new initiative you want to unveil about Cuba, as well. What is going on
with the new regime? Raul taking over, we'll get to that shortly.

But let's talk about the economy right now. An L.A. Times/ Bloomberg survey asked the
American people, are we in a recession? Seventy-eight percent said yes, 17 percent said no,
5 percent said they don't know. I know the technical definitions haven't been met but people
are feeling it. What are you doing to try it help them right now?

GUTIERREZ: You know, it's interesting. As we speak, over 30 million checks have been
deposited for the stimulus package.

BLITZER: These are these rebates.

GUTIERREZ: Average about $920 to $940 per family, if it's more in the family, if it's a joint

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couple, joint filing. That was decided by the president late last year. So, it was decided in the
fourth quarter.

BLITZER: And the bipartisan support was -- GUTIERREZ: Great bipartisan support was
immediate and because of that, thanks to that, as we speak, consumers are receiving
checks, 130 million.

BLITZER: Are they spending them the way you want them to?

GUTIERREZ: We believe that most will be spent and based on historic examples, that they
will spend a great part of it.

BLITZER: And the theory is that will perk up the economy.

GUTIERREZ: That's correct, 70 percent of our economy is consumer spending. We also
have a part of the stimulus package that will go to businesses so that they can invest in
capital and create jobs. The estimate is that 500,000 jobs will be created so that, that is
exactly what we're doing and it's being executed and there's never been a project the size of

BLITZER: Is it time for a second stimulus package? A lot of Democrats and plenty of
Republicans would be interested in that, as well.

GUTIERREZ: We're always looking at data. Every single day, the president is on this, his
whole cabinet is on this. What we're focusing on is let's execute this plan we have. Let's see
how it works. This is the biggest undertaking we have ever done in our history. We've never
done 130 million checks before. Let's do it well. Let's see how it works.

BLITZER: But you're leaving open the option, if necessary, to go forward with a second
economic stimulus package?

GUTIERREZ: Always looking at information, always looking at data every single day.

BLITZER: The president just wound up a visit to Saudi Arabia and he seemed to have been
rebuffed by the Saudis when he asked for an increase in oil production to potentially lower
the price per barrel. Here's what he said on Saturday.


BUSH: Saudi Arabia this year has increased the number of barrels of oil per day by 300,000
a day. And they're increasing refining capacity, which is not enough, it's something but it
doesn't solve our problem.


BLITZER: I know that when the president met with the leadership in Saudi Arabia it was all
very polite. But was he rebuffed? Did they basically say, thanks, but no thanks.

GUTIERREZ: I wasn't part of those conversations, but I will say this, this is supply and


GUTIERREZ: Oil. We either fix the supply or we fix the demand and as the president

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mentioned the other day, we have the opportunity to find oil ourselves in our country. Anwar,
as you know, has been pending now.

BLITZER: In the Alaska wildlife.

GUTIERREZ: It is safe and environmentally friendly.

BLITZER: But that is long-term fix. What about short term?

GUTIERREZ: Well the problem is that five, 10 years ago people said it is a long-term fix. Had
it been approved by Congress then, we would have it today. We have to get on with it. We're
not going to be able to fix this with a silver bullet or with a quick magical wand.

GUTIERREZ: It's a lot of hard work, and it is long-term, but we have got to get started.

BLITZER: I know you're involved, deeply involved this week in a new initiative to deal with
Cuba right now. Fidel Castro is out, Raul Castro is in, and he's taking some very, very
modest steps to try to improve the situation over there from the international community's

First of all, what are you unveiling this week?

GUTIERREZ: May 21st is something that is being called International Day of Solidarity With
Cuba. There are events taking place all over the world, and the idea is to focus the spotlight
on political prisoners in Cuba. There is some disagreement about the policy, the embargo,
but at least we can all agree on human rights and the plight of political prisoners.

BLITZER: There are a few hundred, is that...

GUTIERREZ: How many they say is 270...

BLITZER: Is that what you say?

GUTIERREZ: This is the U.N. number. It all depends on how you define it and what is a
political prisoner and what is a political crime.

But let me just say this -- these are people who in many cases have just disagreed with the
regime, have worn a white band just like this that says "change." And, Wolf, the conditions --
they're thrown in dungeons and in some cases, the little compartments where they can't
stand up. Invariably, they get sick almost immediately and they're denied medical attention.
This is brutality at its worst.

BLITZER: Is it getting better under Raul Castro?

GUTIERREZ: Everything we hear is that it is the same exact repression, fear, brutality that
has existed over 49 years. We believe that people deserve to know, and we believe that the
political prisoners in those dungeons deserve to know that the international community is
paying attention to them.

BLITZER: Is the -- but for the overall life conditions of all the Cubans -- we've heard in recent
days that they are allowed now to buy cell phones, for example. They're allowed to buy and
sell cars. Things that most people around the world will take for granted, but is this progress
over these past few months in Cuba?

GUTIERREZ: I would say two things, Wolf. First of all, it's very cynical, because Cubans
make about $17 a month, and to say that you can now go inside a hotel that was once for
tourists only -- they can't get a room in a hotel. You can buy a cell phone. Now you have to
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register your name and I don't know how much a cell phone costs, but apparently it is a lot
more than Cubans make.

I think it's also sad that the international community in some cases is celebrating this as
change. Why is it that we have a different standard for Cuba? Why is this great change in
Cuba that Cubans can now visit hotels? They don't have (inaudible)...

BLITZER: I guess the argument has been that the policy going back to the '60s really hasn't
worked in shaking things up in Cuba. Maybe it's time for a new approach.

I'll play this little clip of what Barack Obama said at a CNN debate back on February 21st,
saying he would be open to a meeting if he were elected president with Raul Castro.


OBAMA: I think it is important for us to have the direct contact, and this moment, this
opportunity when Fidel Castro has finally stepped down, I think is one that we should try to
take advantage of.


BLITZER: All right, do you think that's a smart strategy? Because the other strategy doesn't
seem to have worked all that well in removing that regime.

GUTIERREZ: Well, the strategy has been designed to deny resources from a country that is
a state sponsor of terrorism. You know, what a lot of people don't realize is one-third of their
food and one-third of their medicine comes from the U.S. We are their second source of cash
coming from remittances.

The problem isn't the U.S. policy. The problem is communism. It doesn't work. The problem
is the policies in Cuba, the repression, the fear.

BLITZER: But you have a problem with just talking to him?

GUTIERREZ: Well, I think the question that should be asked is, when are they going to
change? Whether we talk to them or not as a presidential policy...

BLITZER: Because the argument was that the U.S. under the Reagan administration spoke
with the Soviets. They had nuclear missiles pointed at the United States. And then we saw
this collapse of the Soviet Union, and why not do a similar kind of strategy with Cuba?

GUTIERREZ: Well, nine presidents have dealt with Cuba. It's not as if though this is
something new.

I think we have to realize that there is such thing as dictators who hate this country, and we
have to be very careful. We have to be very careful to not legitimize someone who is putting
people in jail, putting them in dungeons. That's why we're doing May the 21st.

BLITZER: And Raul Castro is one of those, is that what you're saying?

GUTIERREZ: Absolutely. Why legitimize those people, Wolf? This is, I think first and
foremost, we owe it to the people in prison, we owe it to their families to shine a spotlight on
them and to show what's really going on. That's the priority.

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BLITZER: Mr. Secretary, thanks for coming in.

GUTIERREZ: Thank you, sir.

BLITZER: Appreciate it very much.

And coming up...


we will not negotiate under pressure.


BLITZER: On a week that marks Israel's 60th anniversary, we're going to take a look back at
an interview I did right here on "Late Edition" with the former prime minister, Ariel Sharon.
We'll show you that interview and more right after this.



BUSH: The only regret is that one of Israel's greatest leaders is not here to share this
moment. He is a warrior for the ages, a man of peace, a friend. The prayers of the American
people are with Ariel Sharon.


BLITZER: That was President Bush sharing his thoughts on the former Israeli Prime Minister
Ariel Sharon in Jerusalem earlier this week. Mr. Sharon remains in a coma since he suffered
a stroke back in 2006.

During his trip to the Middle East, the president joined in the celebration of Israel's 60th
anniversary. Today, we continue our celebration of my 10th year as the host of "Late Edition"
by showing part of my interview with the Israeli leader.

On March 11th, 2001, the same week that he was sworn in as the new -- into his new
position, I spoke with Ariel Sharon about resuming negotiations with the Palestinian people,
and his government's plans to achieve peace.


SHARON: I think that it was maybe the major mistake of the Israeli former government that
agreed to negotiate under fire and under terror, because (inaudible) brought only for more
demands from the Palestinians, and Israel made some more confessions, Israel became
weaker and weaker. In the end, Wolf, after major efforts by the Israeli government led by
Prime Minister Barak, that we have not achieved peace and we have not achieved security.

SHARON: And, therefore, this government will have another policy, though we are
committed to peace, but we will not negotiate under pressure because Israel is a tiny, small
country. The country, but it's a country where the Jewish people are having the right and the
capability to defend themselves by themselves and that is the most important thing and we
cannot give up this capability. This is our responsibility.

BLITZER: Are you suggesting?

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SHARON: This terror...

BLITZER: Mr. Prime Minister, are you suggesting, therefore, excuse me for interrupting, that
until there is a complete cessation of all violence, there will be no contacts, no talks
whatsoever with the politics in the hopes of resuming those negotiations?

SHARON: I spoke about the peace negotiations in a method that conveyed to Chairman
Arafat, I said that I would like very much to ease the conditions of the Palestinians that live in
the area. Because I believe that we have to draw a distinction between terrorists and their
supporters and the people that would like just to go to work and bring some bread home and
raise their children.


BLITZER: If you'd like to see my interview with Ariel Sharon go to

Up next, Barack Obama claims that President Bush and John McCain are guilty of hypocrisy
and fear mongering over their attacks on Obama's foreign policy. We're going to get insight
from three of the best political team on television. LATE EDITION continues right after this.



OBAMA: I don't take what Bush says personally, but I was offended by what is a continuation
of a strategy from this White House now mimicked by Senator McCain that replaces strategy
and analysis and smart policy with bombast exaggerations and fear mongering.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: Barack Obama responding on Friday to criticism from John
McCain and an accusation by President Bush that Obama's proposed foreign policy would
amount to the kind of appeasement that emboldened Hitler before World War II.

Let's discuss this and more, lots of political firestorms going on with our chief national
correspondent John King. And our two congressional correspondents who now spend more
time out on the campaign trail than they do on Capitol Hill, Dana Bash and Jessica Yellin.
Guys, thanks very much for coming in.

John, the word appeasement spoken in Jerusalem at the Knesset, you know that's going to
cause a stir. Explain what the thinking was, what was going on?

KING: Well, it's no surprise if you follow President Bush in recent years this is his thinking.
Now for a president of the United States to say this in a foreign parliament in the middle of a
campaign, look the White House was well aware it was going to cause a firestorm back
home. They say he wasn't singling out Barack Obama, that there are many others in his view
that meet that description, Jimmy Carter, for example, who was just in the region.

But the president knew what he was doing and on the Democratic side, they understand this
is going to be the fight. The Republicans have run the last two presidential elections on
national security. President Bush is going to have a role and a voice in this election whether
John McCain even likes it or not and this was the president saying something that he feels
very strongly about and knowing it was going to cause a storm back home. From the
Democrat perspective, they're glad Barack Obama fought back. That's been one of the key
questions, will he hit back when hit?

BLITZER: Because that's a lesson that Bill Clinton certainly learned when he was running
back in '92 and '96. I'll play this little clip. Another portion of the president's remarks at the
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BUSH: We've heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939,
an American senator declared, lord, if I could have only talked to Hitler, all this might have
been avoided.


BLITZER: Now, that was the late Senator Borah who was a Republican who had actually
made that statement. But, the fact that he included a reference to a senator speaking about if
only I could have talked to Hitler, a lot of people were simply going to immediately say well
he's making an insinuation against Barack Obama.

BASH: Of course and the official White House line may have been that he wasn't, but it's
pretty hard to see anything but that. But I'll take you behind the curtain a little bit inside a
McCain campaign after this happened, Wolf. You'll remember this speech was given just
before John McCain was giving his big 2013 vision speech, the goals he would have liked to
have attained by the end of the first term and the McCain campaign was completely taken by

I talked to several people inside the campaign. They didn't know that the president was going
to do this, so they immediately had to make a choice, do we jump on and basically associate
with ourselves with those comments because it's the same kind of argument that John
McCain had already been making against Barack Obama or do we not?

We got on John McCain's bus right after that speech a few hours after President Bush made
those remarks and he jumped right in. He actually had a little bit of a twinkle in his eye, I've
got to tell you, when he jumped in and he had some very strong, strong language against
Barack Obama. They realize that they have to, whether or not the Obama campaign or
anybody else is going to say, here's evidence. It's Bush and McCain together, they realize
they didn't have a choice and they rebel in this.

BLITZER: But what the president and McCain did was unify the Democrats very, very

YELLIN: This was a gift to Barack Obama in some ways. Maybe there's a short term benefit
for Republicans, but the bottom line is Barack Obama wants to run against John McCain as
the third Bush term. We've heard him say it over and over and President Bush handed him a
perfect entree to say look, they're linked in foreign policy. John McCain is the same as
President Bush. And it ideally unified the Democratic Party. Senator Biden jumped on it right
away. We heard the Democratic Party elders jump all over it, even Senator Clinton. Barack
Obama would be well-served if President Bush continued to inject himself this way.

BLITZER: But on this issue of national security, the Republicans say this is McCain's turf. He
loves talking about national security. It's the economy, other issues he may not be all that
thrilled to discuss. And whenever they can make the Democrats appear to be soft on
defense, soft on national security, they say the Republicans will win.

KING: It's a very different calculation as we speak in May that it will be a calculation for
having this conversation on Labor Day. If this campaign is about national security experience
and who's tougher against terrorism on Labor Day, then you would assume based on today
that that would default to the benefit of John McCain. Democrats were unified, absolutely.
And you saw a chance for Barack Obama to debate George Bush and John McCain, even

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though Hillary Clinton is still on the ballot. And even though there's still some Democratic
primaries to go. So, Barack Obama certainly showed Democrats, even Democratic critics
what they want it see. Fight, immediately, zest getting right back in the face of the president
and the face of McCain. But if this is what we're talking about on Labor Day, most would tell
you today they believe that would benefit John McCain. But Barack Obama, he has to grow
in this campaign.

KING: He has to prove that he can debate and go toe to toe with him on national security.
This is round one.

BLITZER: Are they serious, because Barack Obama says he would welcome, sort of Lincoln-
Douglas debates with John McCain on national security or any other issue. Is McCain ready
for that, as well?

BASH: Absolutely. They said that they're proposing -- and actually the minute that Barack
Obama does in fact more officially become the Democratic nominee, they are going to reach
out to the Obama campaign and they are going to propose not necessarily debates, but what
they want inside the McCain campaign. They want to bring Obama into the kind of style of
campaigning that John McCain engages in, which is the townhall meeting. What they want is
Barack Obama and John McCain to be standing side-by-side in front of an audience that
both campaigns pick and let the voters ask them questions, and that will allow them to mix it
up a little bit.

BLITZER: Let's not forget, Jessica, there are still primaries coming up this Tuesday. Hillary
Clinton is still very much in this race. At least she's not showing any signs of quitting.

YELLIN: No, and her campaign believes that there is still a 5 percent chance she can win.
They firmly believe this. The aides who work for her think it's narrow, but possible.

She had a meeting at her home this week with some of her top fundraisers and laid out a
path for them that basically says she's won the popular vote -- she will win the popular vote.
Now, this is counting Florida, not counting Michigan, but they also count out some caucus
states that didn't tally popular votes. So it's not quite kosher, if you will, by the formal rules,
but it's a way they see that they can say she has the moral advantage of having the popular
vote at the very end of the day. I expect her to stay in through June 3rd.

BLITZER: She says -- she said to me this week, she said she's still hoping for a three-point
shot at the buzzer. It may be more like a mid-court or even a full-court shot at the buzzer. But
stuff happens at basketball games, and let's see what happens in this extraordinary political

We're going to have a lot more coming up with our political panel in just a moment. When we
come back, also, the House Republican Leader John Boehner addresses his party's
significant trouble in this election year. You're going to hear what he had to say in our very
popular "In Case You Missed It" segment. "Late Edition" continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: We'll get back to our political panel in a moment, but
first, "In Case You Missed It." Let's check some of the highlights from the other Sunday
morning talk shows here in the United States.

On ABC, the House Republican leader John Boehner discussed GOP fortunes and what
looks to be a very difficult election year for his party.


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REP. JOHN A. BOEHNER, R-OHIO: The environment for Republicans is a difficult one.
What I've been preaching to my colleagues now for over a year is that we have to be the
agents of change. We have to prove to the American people we can deliver the change that
they want and the change that they deserve. And whether the issue is rising costs of health
care, the rising cost of gasoline prices, food prices, we have an agenda that will deliver that
change that Americans want. And all they've gotten from the Democrats are a lot of broken


BLITZER: On NBC, Virginia Democratic Senator Jim Webb was asked how he'd respond if
Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama approached him about being a vice presidential running


SEN. JIM WEBB, D-VA.: I would highly discourage them. That's about the best way to say it.

TIM RUSSERT, HOST, MEET THE PRESS: But you wouldn't be General Sherman and say

WEBB: You know, at this point no one is asking, no one's talking, and I'm not that interested.


BLITZER: On CBS, the former New York Democratic Governor Mario Cuomo called for an
Obama/Clinton ticket.


MARIO CUOMO, FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: They have proven themselves. She
in 17 primaries, he in more than 17 primaries. They have been tested. No other possible
candidate has been tested the way they have. This is the poetry and prose coming together.
It would be a wonderful solution.


BLITZER: On Fox, the Senate's second-ranking Republican, Jon Kyl, blasted Barack Obama
for suggesting he would be open to meeting Iran's top leaders if he were president.


SEN. JON KYL, R-ARIZ.: He would meet personally and without preconditions. That's not
what former presidents have done. And they certainly have not met with state sponsors of

That's the problem here. What would Senator Obama be talking to Ahmadinejad about? This
man who calls Israel a stinking corpse, who has personally said that Israel should be wiped
off the face of the Earth. It's hard to know what you would talk to Ahmadinejad about.


BLITZER: Highlights from the other Sunday morning talk shows here on "Late Edition," the
last word in Sunday talk.

Up next, will John Edwards' big endorsement of Barack Obama help him win over white,
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working-class voters? Our political panel standing by. More discussion when "Late Edition"


BLITZER: We're back. We're talking politics with John King, Dana Bash and Jessica Yellin.
They're all part of the best political team on television.

John, there was a major election, the congressional election in Mississippi, this week, a seat
long held by Republicans. Look at this. We'll put the numbers up.

The Democrat, Travis Childers, got 54 percent; Greg Davis, the Republican, 46 percent,
another win for the Democrats.

Barack Obama wasted no time in reacting to that, because the Republicans had tried to use
him to undermine the Democratic candidate.


SEN. BARACK OBAMA, D-ILL.: I mean, they were trying to do every trick in the book to try
to scare folks in Mississippi, and it didn't work.


BLITZER: It certainly didn't. It was a pretty impressive win for the Democrats.

KING: A very impressive win; it follows the Louisiana race, where they also use Barack
Obama in the ads.

And what Republican strategists were trying to shake into the Republican Party is, you have
to be for something before you can be against something, that, maybe, criticizing Barack
Obama will help you some in September, but only if you first establish with the American
people what you're for. And, Wolf, if you talk to Democrats or Republicans right now, the
Democrats have more energy. They're turning out more voters. They're raising more money.
They have all this enthusiasm.

The Republicans don't have the money. They're still moribund from what happened in 2006.
There is a potential here for not only -- the odds favor the Democrats in the presidential race,
but there's also a potential they could pick up some seats in Congress, as well. BLITZER:
Major seats in Congress. But the amazing thing to me, Dana -- and you cover McCain -- is
that he still is competitive in these hypothetical matchups with either Barack Obama or Hillary
Clinton. The Republicans may be in deep trouble but McCain seems to have his own brand
out there.

BASH: That's exactly what -- I mean, if you talk to anybody inside the McCain campaign, that
is, by far, the biggest challenge and goal for them, is to continue to keep that brand separate.
That is why -- it's been under the radar because not a lot of people are paying attention to

But that's why, you know, over and over, he's giving speeches on climate change. He's given
speeches on other issues where he is seen as somebody who is separate and different from
any of the Republicans in Congress.

And there's no question. I mean, John McCain himself said, this week, he looked at what
happened in Mississippi, and no matter how different he is, in terms of his brand versus the
Republicans' brand, this is such an ominous sign for John McCain. There are no two ways
about it.
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BLITZER: Jessica, listen to Congressman Tom Davis. He's retiring. He's a moderate
Republican from here in northern Virginia, used to run this committee to help Republicans
get elected in Congress.

Listen to his assessment this week.


REP. THOMAS M. DAVIS III, R-VA.: The party's at an all-time low. Its leader, President
Bush, right now, is the least popular president in history. And that has been for a sustainable
period of time. On issue over issue, the voters, at this point, are turning to Democrats instead
of Republicans for answers.

In short, this is the worst atmosphere we've seen since Watergate.


BLITZER: And that from a Republican.

YELLIN: It's devastating. And the night this Mississippi race was called, the head guy who
runs this committee you're talking about now put out a memo, a release to the press, that
basically said to fellow Republicans, fend for yourselves; we can't protect you.

I mean, it was the most bizarre public acknowledgment of the sense of gloom in the party,
you can imagine. And it's just enormously promising for the Democrats, right now, which is
why there's this sense that it's theirs to win; they better not lose it.

Because the Republican brand is so demolished at the moment that the Democrats really
have to capitalize on this moment.

KING: You have all these Republicans suddenly saying John McCain is our best buddy; we
need to link up with John McCain. Remember these were the same Republicans who said,
on immigration reform, on taxes, back when he was against the Bush tax cuts, that this guy's
not one of us; he's not one of us.

Now they see that he has established, as Dana said, a different brand. And the Republicans
are suddenly flocking to John McCain.

BLITZER: And listen to this. He was on Saturday night live, last night, and he was pretty
funny. Listen.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZ.: I want to give you this piece of advice. Democrats, I have to
urge you, do not, under any circumstances, pick a candidate too soon.


should drop out?

MCCAIN: Absolutely not.

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MEYERS: Cool it.

POEHLER: You cool it.

MCCAIN: That's right. Fight amongst yourselves.



BLITZER: He's got a sense of humor.

BASH: He does have a sense of humor. And he has been pining to get back on that show,
since 2002, when he sang Barbra Streisand songs. And luckily, we didn't hear that again,


But I think that was -- that was interesting because it was funny, because it happened to be

The other thing that John McCain did on that show, in two separate sketches, is make fun of
his age. He tried to, kind of, pull the air out of the balloon on this very, very real issue that he
has, the fact that he would be the oldest president ever elected. And you know, you go back
to Ronald Reagan, during that famous debate, where he said that he's not going to make his
opponent's age and inexperience -- or youth and inexperience an issue. That's the beginning
of the strategy to try to, kind of, deal with this, head on.

BLITZER: A little self-deprecating humor's always good.

YELLIN: Always good. And this issue of the age is just another example of the way in which
the contrast between John McCain and Barack Obama, if he were to become the nominee, is
just so stark.

They are running on very different issues. They look different. Their age is so different. And
this is the fundamental reason why this talk of the Democratic Party not being unified after
the nomination is clear is silly.

There's every reason to believe they will together. Already, I talked to some of the top fund-
raisers for Senator Clinton, who are saying to me, in phone calls, you know, I also like
Barack Obama and, you know, I'm very close to the Obama people, too. They're starting to
be coming together.

BLITZER: Guys, thanks very much for coming in.

BASH: Thank you.

KING: Thank you.

YELLIN: Thank you.

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BLITZER: And if you'd like a recap of today's program, you can highlights on our "Late
Edition" podcast. Simply go to And coming up at the top of the hour, "This
Week in Politics" with Tom Foreman.


BLITZER: And that's your "Late Edition" for this Sunday, May 18. Please be sure to join me
next Sunday and every Sunday at 11:00 a.m. Eastern for the last word in Sunday talk. I'm
also in "The Situation Room" Monday through Friday from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m. Eastern.

And on Tuesday, I'll be with the best political team on television, bringing you the results from
the Kentucky and Oregon primaries. Our special coverage begins at 7 p.m. Eastern.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

                                    ISSUE NUMBER ONE

    Gas Prices Hit Yet Another Record; Secrets of Wealth
                               Aired May 28, 2008 - 12:00 ET



HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Still wondering if he's going to try it again at some point.

CNN NEWSROOM continues one hour from now. "ISSUE #1" is next with Gerri Willis and Ali
Velshi, but first a quick look at the headlines. Let's take you back to Chicago right now. This
is a situation we've been following for the last half hour now, a train derailment on the city's
south side, live pictures right now. You can see a couple of tarps down on the ground.
People were brought down from the elevated tracks, resting there, getting themselves

It must have been pretty rough for them. The train derailment happening about 10:10 a.m.
local time. The green line if you are familiar with the Chicago transit system actually runs
from the south side from downtown and the derailment taking place where the tracks split
into two branches. Twenty four people we understand taken to the hospital with what's being
described as minor injuries. We also understand as you would expect the line has been
temporarily suspended until it can be cleared. We'll continue to follow with this story for you
in the NEWSROOM. That is the news for now. I'M Tony Harris. "Issue #1" starts right now.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN ANCHOR, ISSUE #1: Gas prices hit yet another record. Why those
scary oil forecasts may not be true and what it could mean for gas prices. Public

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transportation is hot while a major airline cools off. And why skipping the grocery store could
save you big money on food. "Issue #1" is your economy, your job, your house, your savings,
your debt. "Issue #1" starts right now. Welcome to "Issue #1." I'm Gerri Willis. Ali Velshi will
join us in just a moment. For a change though some good news, yes some good news on the
faithful topic of record high fuel prices. Oil retreated into the $126 range today before
bouncing back to near $130. There are new indications that you may be using less gas. AAA
says the average price for a gallon of regular unleaded today is $3.94. That's another record,
but analysts say this is because of those bloated prices. there are signs you are spending
less time on the road and less time on the road coupled with less demand for gas could
eventually mean lower prices. Ali.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR, ISSUE #1: Gerri, there are some people out there who believe
that the price of oil hasn't reached its peak and could likely jump to over $200 a barrel. That
would affect a lot of things in your life, specifically gas prices. There are some people say
that we have peaked for now and that $200 number isn't too far away. One of those people is
CIBC chief economist Jeff Rubin who analyzes energy prices and inflation. Jeff made a call
very recently about oil going higher than it is now. Jeff, your calls have been fairly accurate in
the past. Where do you think oil is headed right now?

see oil prices averaging $150 within two years and by 2012, probably averaging well over
$200. We have a forecast of about $225 a barrel, which would translate roughly into around
$7 a gallon gasoline. So if people think that the recent Memorial Day weekend had very high
prices, get used to much higher prices in future Memorial Day weekends.

VELSHI: Now Jeff, one of the things we've seen, we've heard it from Ford that when gasoline
hit $3.50 as a national average people pulled back from buying trucks and SUVs. We see
that driving, people drove less during Memorial Day weekend. We see it affecting airline
prices. It goes well beyond though the price of gasoline at the gas station. You've talked
about all of the other effects that the rising price of oil is going to have. Very few of them are

RUBIN: That's right and I think most of them are negative in the sense that we are ultimately
going to have to get off the road. You mention that oil demand has been dropping. I'm
forecasting that U.S. oil consumption right now just under 21 million barrels a day will
probably drop by over two million barrels a day over the next four to five years because for
every new car driver who buys a Cada (ph) or a Cheri (ph) and gets on the road in places
like India or China, basically somebody is coming off the road here.

VELSHI: Can we do it? If Americans turn to fuel efficiency and conservation, can we even
offset all of that growth in India and China?

RUBIN: Well, the paradox of fuel efficiency is at least up until now, we have used all those
gains in efficiency to consume greater and greater fuel. For example, despite all the
improvements in engine fuel efficiency, your average car in America consumes just as much
oil as your dad's gas guzzler in the early 1970s because you drive it much more and your
average car in America now is a light truck or SUV.

VELSHI: Jeff, we talked to one big Texas oilman Boon Pickens the other day when he
announced that he is going to build the biggest wind farm in the world in Texas. This morning
we heard from another Texas oilman, Rex Tillerson, the CEO of ExxonMobil who says all this
wind and solar is largely hog wash when it comes to replacing the use of fossil fuels, real oil

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and gasoline. What do you think of that?

RUBIN: I think there is a certain element of truth there. I think the bottom line here is we are
going to have to reduce our energy usage. Ultimately that's what energy prices are going to
compel us to do. Where we use the most oil is, of course in transport fuels. You are going to
see in the next couple of years less and less people on the road. That's going to have huge
ramifications, for example, where people live because people aren't going to be able to
commute 50 miles to work every day because the cost of filling your tank is going to make
that prohibitively expensive. So property values in the suburbs will start to fall. Property
values in the city will start to rise.

VELSHI: Very interesting. And another point you made in your report, something that I
alluded to earlier, I said it's not all bad news.

RUBIN: That's right.

VELSHI: You mentioned that American jobs could actually benefit from the price of oil.

RUBIN: Exactly. Who would have thought that $130 a barrel oil would breathe new life into
the rust belt, but that is exactly what's happening because in this kind of world, distance
costs money. And yeah, Chinese steel workers make a fraction of what Pittsburgh steel
workers make, but there is only 1 1/2 labor time in a ton of steel. When you consider the cost
of shipping that ton of steel across the ocean at $130 oil, all of a sudden Chinese steel is
more expensive than U.S. steel. All of a sudden U.S. steel is up 10 percent, Chinese export
to U.S. is down 20 percent.

VELSHI: Jeff Rubin, good to talk to you. Thanks very much for being with us. Jeff Rubin is
the chief economist with CIBC World Markets. Gerri.

WILLIS: Ali, at least a glimmer of hope there. The good thing about "Issue # 1" is that you get
to participate. It's your turn to weigh in on today's quick vote question. That means it's time to
check in with Poppy Harlow. Hi Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Gerri, volatility in the stock market these
days. Some experts say the best place to keep your money is in cold hard cash so right in
your sock drawer. But have you even been saving? We want to know. Here is our question
today. When did you first start saving money -- before I turned 18, in my 20s or 30s, after 40
or any day now. You are going to start, you really are. will bring you the
results a little later in the show. (INAUDIBLE) can really add up, so I'm impressed with those
who saved before 18.

WILLIS: It is impressive and Ali Velshi of course saying, I'm starting any day now. I love that.
Up next, why one big airline is feeling a bit blue these days. Why public transportation is
becoming more and more popular and we'll show you how some folks are saving big bucks
on their grocery bills by turning away from grocery stores. We'll explain.

And we are standing by for a commencement address from President Bush at the Air Force
Academy in Colorado Springs. We'll bring it to you live when it happens.


WILLIS: Soaring fuel costs are grounding Jetblue's plans to expand its fleet. The company

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said today it is putting off buying 21 new Airbus jetliners for four to five years. By delaying
delivery, Jetblue will be able to postpone paying for the aircraft and save on the additional
operating costs it would bring. Jetblue isn't saying how much it expected to pay for the planes
or how much it hopes to save by the move. Ali.

VELSHI: What a neat idea, an airline in America is actually expanding, actually buying
planes. We'll see if that one works out, but interesting. We don't really hear about that much.

One area that is definitely benefiting from rising gas prices is public transit. Increasingly
Americans are leaving their cars in the garage. CNN senior correspondent, a commuter
himself, Allan Chernoff told us about this trend earlier this year. It does seem to be

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No question about it. The latest numbers
from the Department of Transportation indicate that. Driving during the month of March was
down by 4.3 percent. That was for the fifth consecutive month. Have a look at these
numbers. This is very significant. If this continues this year, it will be the first year since 1980
that we actually have seen a decline in traffic on the roadways. So Ali, something is
happening here.

VELSHI: What's happening on the other side? People are moving into transit. That's what's
happening? We are seeing from various cities that they are feeling an increase?

CHERNOFF: Nationwide all over, mass transit organizations from San Francisco, Los
Angeles, Denver, Washington, New York, all around the country, we are seeing big
increases. Here you see the trend that's been in place for quite some time. It's actually been
happening for the past dozen years. Now it is really accelerating quite a bit and that is very,
very important here.

VELSHI: What Jeff Rubin just told us from CIBC is that, what you are going to see at the right
side of that equation, the increase in vehicle traffic going down. I think San Francisco made
the point that the transit authority, that it might not be just gas prices, but it's a combination of
gas prices, congestion, time it takes, parking, tolls, all those kinds of things just making the
final push for people.

CHERNOFF: It's all been building up as you see. Those numbers show us. Over the past
dozen years, there has been a bit of a trend toward mass transit. Now it's really accelerating.
People are more environmentally conscious, but also especially when it hits you in the
pocketbook. That's when you really make the change. That's exactly what we are seeing
right now.

VELSHI: You are a transit rider. You take the train.

CHERNOFF: I do. I walk to the train, take the train into New York and take the subway.

VELSHI: Around here that is a pretty common thing to do. Allan also was on the bike the
other day just to test out how that worked and you looked pretty comfortable with that.

CHERNOFF: I ride the bike plenty, but it's a little far, wouldn't work well over the Hudson

VELSHI: All right, Allan Chernoff, thanks very much. Gerri.

WILLIS: "Issue #1" is all about you. You've been telling us how you are battling gas prices
with commuting alternatives. I-reporter Janaki Barush (ph) says she graduated from college
in December and you are seeing here. After she found a job, she found an apartment close
to it. She says she lives within five miles of work and rides her bike every single day. She
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also lives within walking distance of the Washington, D.C., metro system so she has another
option when it rains. Barush says she was careful to plan where she would live based on not
having to drive.

Now Elizabeth Pizner (ph), great car, check it out, right. She loves her new car. It gets pretty
good gas mileage but guess what? She is leaving it at home. She takes the Los Angeles
subway system to her job in downtown LA and Liz says she recently organized a church
event for 30 to 40 teens. She got metro day passes for all the kids and they couldn't believe
how easy it was to use the subway.

Now, Carl Wijowski (ph) says he took the bus and train to work for the first time yesterday.
You are looking out his window there. He sent us a picture of the bus stop outside his
apartment. It's five feet from his front door. He said the trip takes about 20 minutes more than
driving, but he'll save at least $50 a month.

And Michelle Carpenter is showing off her new car. She says she spent her Memorial Day
trading in her SUV. She said the old SUV got only, listen to this, 13 miles per gallon. Now
she is getting 33 miles per gallon.

And Bethany Deitz (ph) doesn't have to commute. She's a stay-at- home mom, you see her
right there, but she is still cutting back on her gas consumption. She says if she needs to go
shopping or run errands, she saves them all for one day. Now that way, she spends less
drive time going from place to place. She says her family has to cut back because it's hard to
put food on the table and gas in the tank at the same time. We can all relate to that. Be sure
to send us your commuting stories to CNN. Log on to and tell us what you are
doing to save money on gas. What do you think of that Ali?

VELSHI: I love public transport, but that last one, I've been hearing a lot of, people saving up
all their errands to do it on one day, so interesting tips. I'd love to hear what other people are

Coming up next, are you handling your money the way you should? We're going to check out
some ways to help you save some big bucks and we are just minutes away from a
commencement address by President Bush at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs.
You will hear it live here on "Issue #1" when it happens. Stay with us. You're watching CNN.


WILLIS: You are joining us now live as the president begins his speech to the Air Force
Academy in Colorado Springs. Let's listen in.

class in the history of the Air Force Academy. Each of you has worked hard to reach this
moment. You survived beasts, torazo (ph) sailing, fatty bag (INAUDIBLE) You earned your
crop and wings at pinnacle. And today you will receive your degree and commission as Air
Force officers. Your teachers are proud of you. Your parents are proud of you and so is your
commander in chief. Job well done.

The superintendent informs me that some of you are still on restriction, might be because
you were caught running from the lightning van (ph) or it the might be because of Jimmy
Chad's apple (ph). Whatever the reason you got your form 0 help has arrived. Keeping with a
long standing tradition, I hereby absolve all cadets who are on restriction for minor conduct
offenses. As for your grades, well some things are even beyond the powers of the president.

In becoming officers of the United States Air Force, you have chosen a vocation that is both
hazardous and rewarding. As a former F-102 pilot, I know the exhilaration of flight. As a son
of an aviator who was shot down in combat, I know its perils. Whether you serve in the skies
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above or on the ground below, each of you has stepped forward to defend your country.
You've chosen to face danger in foreign lands so your fellow citizens do not have to face
danger in our own land. I want to thank you for making this courageous choice and all of
America is grateful to the class of 2008.

When you put on your second lieutenant bars in a few moments, you will become part of a
great history, a history that is still only beginning to unfold. By any standard, air power is still
a relatively new phenomenon. Men have been fighting on land and at sea for thousands of
years, yet there are still Americans among us who were born before man ever flew. A lifetime
of one generation our nation has seen aviation progress from that first tentative lift-off at Kitty
Hawk to an age of supersonics flight and space exploration. As flight has progressed, it
changed the face of war.

In the 20th century air power helped make possible freedom's victory and great ideological
struggles with fascism and communism. Those struggles our nation faced evil men with
territorial ambitions and totalitarian aims who murdered the innocent to achieve their political
objectives. Through a combination of military strength and national resolve and faith in the
power of freedom, we defeated these adversaries, secured the peace for millions across the
world and now in the 21st century, our nation is once again contending with an ideology that
seeks to sew anger and hatred and despair, the ideology of Islamic extremism.

In today's struggle, we are once again facing evil men who despise freedom and despite
America and am to subject millions to their violent rule. Once again, our nation is called to
defeat these adversaries and secure the peace for millions across the world. And once
again, our enemies will be no match for the men and women of the United States Air Force.

What is remarkable about this class is that each of you knows the stakes in the war on terror.
You applied to this academy. After seeing the attacks of September 11th, 2001, you came to
this academy knowing that the responsibility of our military is to protect the American people.
You now leave this academy to take your place in this great struggle. Today I've come to talk
to you about the battle you are about to join. The lessons we can learn from the conflicts of
the past and what they can teach us about the challenges we face in the war on terror that
will dominate your military careers.

First lesson is this. In both the 20th century and today, defeating hateful ideologies requires
all elements of national power, including the use of military power. The military power that
you wield in your military careers is much more precise and effective than in past
generations. When the United States entered World War II, there age of long-range bombing
was just beginning. There were no computer guidance, no GPS targeting or laser-guided
munitions. The allied bombing raids against Germany and Japan resulted in horrific civilian
casualties and widespread destruction.

It took nearly four years before the regimes in Berlin and Tokyo finally capitulated. Difficult
battles from the deserts of North Africa to the forests of France to the islands of the Pacific.
Today revolutionary advances in technology are transforming warfare. During operation Iraqi
Freedom for example, we employed military capability so precise that coalition air crews
could take out a tank hiding under a bridge without damaging the bridge. With this military
technology we can now target a regime without targeting an entire nation. We removed two
cruel regimes in weeks instead of years. In Afghanistan, coalition forces and their Afghan
allies drove the Taliban from power in less than two months. In Iraq with the help of the
United States Air Force, our troops raced across 350 miles of enemy territory to liberate
Baghdad in less than one month, one of the faster armored advances in military history.

These facts create both opportunities and challenges. One opportunity is that if we have to

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fight our enemies, we can now do so with greater precision and greater humanity. The age of
advanced weapons we can better strike, we can better target strikes against regimes and
individual terrorists. Sadly, there will be civilian casualties in war, but with these advances,
we can work toward this noble goal, defeating the enemies of freedom while sparing the lives
of many more innocent people, which creates another opportunity. That is by making war
more precise, we can make war less likely. For hostile dictators it is a powerful deterrent to
know that America is willing and able to target their regimes directly. When rulers know we
can strike their regimes while sparing their populations, they realize they cannot hide behind
the innocent. That means they are less likely to start conflicts in the first place.

Our unmatched military power also creates challenges because no adversary can confront
and defeat our military directly. The enemies of the 21st century will increasingly turn to the
use of asymmetric warfare. We've seen this in Afghanistan and Iraq. Those countries are
adversaries did not lay down their arms after the regime had been removed. Instead they
blended into the civilian population and with the help of stateless terrorists networks,
continued to fight through suicide bombings and attacks on innocent people. In the 21st
century, this nation must be prepared to fight this new kind of warfare. To meet this new
challenge we need to continue to develop technologies that put unprecedented speed and
precision and power in your hands. That's what we are doing. Since 2002, the number of
unmanned aerial vehicles in our arsenal has increased nearly 40-fold to more than 5,000 and
we are increasing them even more. We transformed the special operations command and
more than doubled its budget. We are improving our intelligence and surveillance and
reconnaissance capabilities. We are transforming our ground forces for the wars of the 21st
century, making them faster and more agile and more lethal.

And you'll see the impact of these changes in your own Air Force careers. Instead of serving
at 10,000 feet some of you will serve on the ground as battlefield airmen, deploying behind
lines and using laser technology to fix targets for aviators circling above. Instead of sitting in
jet fighter cockpits, some of you will sit at computer consoles at bases here in the United
States where you will guide predator UAVs half a world away and use them to strike terrorist
hideouts. These and other changes will increase your ability to prevail in asymmetric warfare.
It will make you more effective in the defense of freedom.

Another challenge of asymmetric warfare is that it requires patience. Our new enemies know
they can't defeat us militarily. So their strategy is to cause us to lose our nerve and retreat
before the job is done. They take advantage of the information age and the 24- hour news
cycles, creating images of chaos and suffering for the cameras in the hope that these images
will horrify the American people and undermine resolve and morale here at home. This
means that to win the first war of the 21st century we need to prevail not just in the battle of
arms, but also in the battle of wills. And we need to recognize that the only way America
could lose the war on terror is if we defeat ourselves.

The second lesson is this. In both the 20th century and today, defeating hateful ideologies
requires using our national resources to strengthen free institutions in countries that are
fighting extremists. We must help these nations govern their territorial, territory effectively so
they can deny safe haven to our common enemies. And in Afghanistan and Iraq where we
remove regimes that threatened our people, we have a special obligation to help these
nations build free and just societies that are strong partners in the fight against these
extremists and terrorists.

We've assumed this obligation before. After World War II we helped Germany and Japan
build free societies and strong economies. These efforts took time and patience and, as a
result, Germany and Japan grew in freedom and prosperity. Germany and Japan, once
mortal enemies, are now allies of the United States and people across the world have reaped
the benefits from that alliance. Today, we must do the same in Afghanistan and Iraq by
helping these young democracies grow in freedom and prosperity. We will lay the foundation
of peace for generations to come.
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We face a number of challenges in undertaking this vital work. Once challenge is, an in the
past in Germany and Japan, the work of rebuilding took place in relative quiet. Today, we're
helping emerging democracies rebuild under fire from terrorist networks and state-sponsored
terror. This is a difficult and unprecedented task and we're learning as we go.

For example, in Iraq, we learned from hard experience that newly liberated people cannot
make political and economic progress unless they first have some measure of security. In
2006, Iraqis did not have this security. And we all watched as their capital descended into
sectarian violence.

This year, we changed our strategy. Instead of retreating, instead of pulling back and hoping
for the best, I made the decision to send in 30,000 additional troops with a new mission,
protect the American people -- Iraqi people from terrorists and insurgents and illegal militias.
Together, U.S. and Iraqi forces launched new offenses across the country to clear the enemy
out of its strongholds. And as this military surge brought security to neighborhoods that were
once in the grip of terror, it was followed by a civilian surge, with provincial reconstruction
teams, deploying to work with Iraqis to ensure military progress was quickly followed by real
improvements in daily life.

Today, we are seeing the fruits of the new strategy. Violence in Iraq is down to the lowest
point since March of 2004. Civilian deaths are down. Sectarian killings are down. And as
security has improved, the economy has improved as well. Political reconciliation is taking
place at the grassroots and national level. The surge is working. Our men and women in Iraq
are performing with skill and valor, and they have earned the respect of the people of the
United States of America.

This experience will help shape your careers as officers in the United States Air Force.
During your time in uniform, some of you have to help young democracies build free
institutions amid chaos and confusion. You have to work with civilians on the battlefield in
ways generations never imagined. To support your efforts, help you make young
democracies transition from tyranny to freedom. One thing is for certain. The United States
Congress better make sure you have all the resources you need to do your job.

Another challenge in this new and unprecedented era is defining success. In the past, that
was relatively easy to do. There were public surrenders, a signing ceremony on the deck of a
battleship, victory parades in American cities. Today, when the war continues after the
regime has fallen, the definition of success is more complicated.

So in Iraq and Afghanistan we set a clear definition of success. Success will come when al
Qaeda has no safe haven in those countries and the people can protect themselves from
terror. Success will come when Iraq and Afghanistan are economically viable. Success will
come when Iraq and Afghanistan are democracies that govern themselves effectively and
respond to the will of their people. Success will come when Iraq and Afghanistan are strong
and capable allies on the war on terror. Men and women of the Air Force, these successes
will come. And when they do, our nation will have achieved victory and the American people
will be more secure.

The third lesson is this. For all the advanced military capabilities at our disposal, the most
powerful weapon in our arsenal is the power of freedom. We see this story in the 20th
century. 1941, when Nazi bombers pounded London and Imperial Japan attacked Pearl
Harbor, the future of freedom appeared bleak.

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There are only about a dozen democracies in the world. Seeing the tyranny, not liberty, was
on the march. And even after Japan and Germany were defeated in World War II, freedom's
victory was far from clear. In Europe, the advance of Nazi tyranny was replaced by the
advance of Soviet tyranny. In Asia, the world saw the Japanese empire recede and
communism claim most of its former territory, from China, to Korea, to Vietnam.

You imagine if a president stood before the first graduating class of this academy five
decades ago and told the cadet wing that by the end of the 21st century the Soviet Union
would be no more, communism would stand discredited and the vast majority of the world's
nation would be democracies. Cadets probably would have said he had done one too many
chariot races.

Many throughout history have underestimated the power of freedom. To overcome tyranny
and transform whole societies. Yet in the end, despite challenges and setbacks, freedom
ultimately prevails because the desire for liberty is written by our creator in every human

We see that desire in the citizens of Georgia and Ukraine who stood up for their right to free
and fair elections. We see that desire in the people of Lebanon who took to the streets to
demand their independence. We see that desire in the Afghans who emerged from the
tyranny of the Taliban to choose a new president and new parliament.

We see that desire in the jubilant Iraqis who held up ink-stained fingers, who celebrated their
freedom. And in theses scenes, we see an unmistakable truth. Whenever men and women
are given a real choice, they choose to live in freedom. The enemies of freedom understand
this and that is why they're fighting desperately to deny this choice to men and women
across the Middle East.

But we understand some things, too. We understand that freedom helps replace the
conditions of hopelessness that extremist exploit to recruit terrorists and suicide bombers.
We understand that free societies are peaceful societies and that people who live in liberty
and hope do not turn to ideologies of hatred and fear. And that is why, for the security of
America, and the peace for the world, the great mission of your generation is to lead the
cause of freedom.

It's the last time I'll address a military academy commencement as the president. Over the
past eight years, from Annapolis, to West Point, to New London, to Colorado Springs, I have
looked out at the best young men and women our nation has to offer and I have stood in awe
and I stand in awe again today.

Each of you is a volunteer who stepped forward to accept the burdens of war. Knowing all
the dangers you would face upon graduation, you willingly risk your lives and future so that
our country can have a future of freedom and peace. Our enemies say that America's weak
and decadent and does not have the stomach for the long fight. Our enemies have never set
foot on the campus of the United States Air Force Academy.

A nation that produces citizens of virtue and character and courage like you can overcome
any challenge and defeat any adversary. So I'll leave this campus today filled with the
confidence in the course of our struggle in the fate of our country because I've got confidence
in each of you.

We see the strength and spirit of this class in the cadet named Eric Miridet (ph). In 2003, Eric
felt a tug at his heart from the almighty to take time off from the academy and do

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humanitarian work in Morocco. After nearly two years there, Eric, and his brother Alex, and
two childhood friends, decided to ride across the African continent on dirt bikes. The last stop
on their journey was Cairo, where a suicide bomber attacked them by exploding a bucket
filled with nails.

The blast killed Eric's brother, injured his two friends and left Eric bleeding on the street.
Doctors did not think he would ever walk again. He never gave up his dream of coming back
to this academy. And 14 months ago, after surviving the blast, Eric returned to this campus.
Today he begins his career as a proud officer in the greatest air force known to man.

He still has got dozens of nails in his body, but he has a fierce determination in his heart to
protect his country, defeat the forces of terror. Eric puts it this way, "I'll live the rest of my life
scarred inside and outside, but I've got a sense of calling. I want to prevent attacks on other
good people."

Each of you gathered here this morning has answered that same call. I want to thank you for
stepping forward to serve. The security of our citizens and the peace of the world will soon
be in your hands. The best of hands. Be officers of character and integrity. Keep your wings
level and true. Never falter. Do not fail. And always know that America stands behind you.

Thank you. May God bless and congratulations to the class of 2008.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN ANCHOR: You've been listening to President Bush making his final
address to the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. He's walking away from the podium
right there.

Interesting speech. The theme of which was comparing and contrasting, really, the careers of
this academy, this class, with those of World War II.

And, Ali, I have to say, one of the interesting things there, he noted the investment that the
U.S. made rebuilding Germany and Japan after World War II. He says a similar effort is really
needed to help Iran and Afghanistan.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. And the example would sit well, the idea that that in with
history's lens look liked the right thing to do at the time. The massive investment which, at the
time, seemed disproportionate but turned out to be the right thing to do. And I think that's . . .

WILLIS: The pay-offs were huge.


Well, coming up next, we're going to give you some important information about the way you
handle your money.

WILLIS: We'll check out some ways to help you save some big bucks.

You're watching ISSUE NUMBER ONE.


WILLIS: Did you ever wonder if you were doing all the wrong things when it comes to your
money? That could be costing you big bucks.

VELSHI: Well, Robert Shemin is the author of -- well, he worked at Goldman Sachs, so he
knows a thing or two about money. But he's the best-selling author of a book which has a title
that I think people must say all the time, "How Come That Idiot's Rich and I'm Not?" I think
that is a fantastic title.
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But you have been rich for some time. You made your money early. You worked in Goldman
Sachs. I don't think that relates to most people who watch us. So can you just give me the
road map, for people who are watching us, who are struggling in life, what is the road map
from the situation you're in, struggling with debt and high gas prices and high inflation, to
being rich like you?

simple. And I went around to a lot of people, rich idiots, and discovered why are they rich and
other people aren't. And they're doing simple things.

And, number one, you've got to get your spending under control. And we make it into a fun
game. How to reduce your debt, no matter how much you've got. And I've been there. I think
my record was negative $89,000 in my checking account. So I want to be real clear, I started
from basically not much. I've been there. I know how it feels. So we've got to get your
spending under control.

Then the only way to get rich is own assets. It's very simple. And the question is, why aren't
people doing it? The only assets to own are three. One, systemic, long-term stock and bond
investing. $89 a week. If you pick the wrong mutual fund, the wrong one, it becomes about
$1 million in 30 years. And that's what most people blew on coffee or martinis last week.

Number two is real estate. Even in today's market, rich idiots love great deals. And when
everyone's selling is a good time to be buying. Three deals and you're done.

WILLIS: All right. I've got to stop you there because I think a lot about real estate. Where in
the holy heck do you buy now with prices that are continuing to go down? Don't you risk, you
know, buying in when prices only fall lower?

SHEMIN: Well, I wish people would have followed some basic principles in this book. And
that is, you always buy well below market. And, Gerri, there's a wholesale market for
everything, 20 percent, 30 percent, 40 percent below market and a retail market for
everything. Real estate . . .

WILLIS: How do I get wholesale in the real estate market?

SHEMIN: Well, you've got to find a motivated seller. And right now, unfortunately, or
fortunately, there's a lot of them. And we're hoping people (ph) get deals, 40 cents, 50 cents,
60 cents below today's market. And that's what my students and I were doing many years
ago. So if the market went down 20 percent or 30 percent, like it did in some areas, you're
still OK.

You didn't like it, you haven't made money, but you didn't lose any money and you always
have a backup plan and a cushion. We don't speculate. We invest for the long term, not the
short term. That's why a lot of people are in trouble right now. They didn't follow those basic,
rich idiot rules.

VELSHI: All right, let's back up to those people who are in trouble. So let's say you could put
the $89 down per week and you can make good investment decisions. We're dealing with a
lot of people who, obviously, are in foreclosure or are heavily in debt or thinking about the
fact that they could be in foreclosure. One of the things you talk about is that this kind of
freezes the average person. They sit and they worry about it. I think we're all like that. We
contemplate the problem. And you're saying that time that you spend contemplating the
problem could be very damaging.

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SHEMIN: It's called paralysis of analysis. And I've been there.

You know, a lot of people can relate to money and relationships. People have been in bad
relationships. And you don't know what to do. And while you're in it, it's horrible. It's stressful.
Like money. The minute you make the decision, I'm going to stay, I'm going to go, I'm going
to do this, you feel better.

So we teach people how to make a plan, a simple plan of action. One, contact the creditors.
Seventy percent of the people in trouble today have not even bothered to pick up the phone,
call the bank, because, yes, the individual has a problem. The bank also has a problem. And
we're seeing banks doing all kinds of things -- reducing interest rates, reducing payments,
helping, in many cases, not all. But it's worth a few phone calls. Make a plan of action. The
minute you make that plan and start taking action, that's what rich idiots do, you're going to
start feeling better and start digging out of that hole and getting on your way to the light at the
end of the money tunnel.

WILLIS: All right. I've got to get you to something. I think it's interesting. You are very clear
about how much you started with, which is to say nothing. You said that in high school you
were at the bottom of your class, 425 out of 425.

SHEMIN: That's right.

WILLIS: Dyslexic. Lots of issues. And he's very honest about it. Very up front. But, OK, what
you're advocating sounds so difficult. How is it possible for the average joe to go out and put
all this money together?

SHEMIN: Well, and right now, that's what you've got to do because the banks and mortgage
companies aren't doing it. The bottom line is, everyone thinks they have to do everything
themselves. We're taught not to ask for help. It's a sign of weakness. And getting rich is a
team sport.

So when I found my first duplex, it was worth a lot more than I put under contract. Nobody
would loan me money. Two types of people, I can't or how can I? I went to some people I
know who had money or credit, showed them the deal. They're secure. They said that's a
good deal. I'll go borrow the money. I'll go put up the money. We split the deal. Fifty percent
is a lot better than zero.

So we teach people how to build a team. How to use other people's money ethically and
legally and do it right. And that's how most idiots became very rich, like this one.

WILLIS: Well, Robert Shemin, we thank you for your time today. And I like the fake it until
you make it. We'll have to have you back to talk about that.

VELSHI: Yes, good. Thanks, Robert.

WILLIS: Up next, we're taking your money questions. The CNN Help Desk is standing by to
answer your e-mails. The address,


WILLIS: Welcome back to ISSUE NUMBER ONE. The Help Desk is open for business. That
means we're answering your money questions. Let's get right down to it.

Lynnette Khalfani-Cox is the author of "Your First Home." Allan Chernoff is CNN's senior
correspondent. And Hilary Kramer is the author of "Ahead of the Curve" from AOL.

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OK, guys, thanks for join us. Let's get right to the first e- mail. Joshua asks, "I am a student
looking to do my masters and doctorate studies. With the current state of the economy, I am
finding it hard to find good student loan lenders, as well as wondering what would be the best
kind of loans?"

Lynnette, this is for you.

no question, first start with federal loans and then go to the private loan market if you need
to. Federal loans have lower interest rates. They have better loan forgiveness features. And,
frankly, you're going to pay a lot less in fees in terms of loan origination fees, et cetera. Do a
lot of searching online, comparison shop and make lenders compete for your business.

WILLIS: Yes, those private loans these days are very difficult to get.

Marie asks, "are the rebate checks considered income? Will we be required to include the
amount on our 2008 tax returns?"

What do you say, Hilary?

HILARY KRAMER, AUTHOR, "AHEAD OF THE CURVE": The good news is, no. That is not
income. And you can keep all of that money.

WILLIS: Think of it as a gift that you're going to save or use to pay off debt, right?

KRAMER: That's right.

WILLIS: OK. Good deal.

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, the government wants you to
spend it.

WILLIS: Well, but that's not my job. You know, my job is to make sure my family's doing
really well.

Let's get the question from Sharon. "How does one locate foreclosure homes for sale in their
given city or state?"


CHERNOFF: Gerri, there are a lot of sites on the web. RealtyTrac. They'll
give you trials for about a week and then you start paying. RealtyTrac charges $50 a month
for that service.

WILLIS: That's not nothing.

CHERNOFF: That's not nothing. Also, in terms of buying foreclosures, you have to consider,
it sounds like a great idea, but there are a lot of caveats there. First of all, not easy to find
something good. If it's at auction, you may not be able to actually see the interior of the
house. You may have to pay cash.

WILLIS: And we know what that means, right? If you can't see the interior, there could be
damage because it's very common.

CHERNOFF: Major, major damage. There is risk involved here.

KHALFANI-COX: And some homeowners, let's be honest, going out the door, they were mad
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about getting evicted and foreclosed upon. Sometimes they intentionally damage the
property. So you've got to look out for that, too.

WILLIS: Absolutely. OK. Great ideas, Allan.

The next e-mail is from Maurice in New Mexico who asks, "if I'm looking to stay in my home
for life, why should I be concerned about if decreasing value, due to neighborhood

Hilary, I think this guy is on to a great idea here.

KRAMER: Absolutely. This is the principle we all should have. We should buy a home as an
investment that we live in for our life, not speculative. As a matter of fact, there is some good
news. If this house goes down in value, then his taxes may go down as well. And over the
long term . . .

WILLIS: That's cold comfort, I've got to tell you, Hilary.

KHALFANI-COX: There is one other -- go ahead. I don't want to interrupt.

KRAMER: And over the long term, the house will increase in value. It's a long, long process
in terms of real estate. We just saw it condense into a few year bull market for realty.

WILLIS: Very good point.

KHALFANI-COX: I was just going to point out, though, there is one reason that this
homeowner should be concerned about declining values, even if they're never going to sell.
Maybe at some point in the future they want to tap into the equity in that home, maybe to pay
for kids college education, to do home improvements or upgrades. And so some of that
equity might be sapped if your house has fallen in value because of foreclosures around you.
So sometimes your neighbors' problems really do become your own problems, too,

WILLIS: That's a tough thing to think about. And, of course, you know, we see a lot of people,
they don't stay in their houses that long. So it creates sort of a double whammy for them.

All right, the next e-mail is from JP who asks, "I recently settled a medical malpractice case
and have taken two thirds of the award and purchased an annuity that guarantees a 6
percent minimum annual return or, if higher, the higher rate. I have the remaining one third
as cash in the bank. What investment" -- this is really a straight up investment question --
"would be the safest and yet highest return."

CHERNOFF: The safest thing in the world are the U.S. Treasury Bonds. Thirty-year bonds,
four and three-eighths percent. That's not bad.

WILLIS: Because, you know what, if the government isn't working, then you've got bigger
problems than what your return is, right?

KRAMER: But there's a bigger issue here. Two-thirds of the money is already saved in an
annuity that is continuing to pay that same amount of money. That 6 percent. That other
third, there's a hint here of, I want a high return. So maybe that one-third would be great in
the equity market. There are dividend-yielding stocks. Maybe not a growth stock. But they're
out there. Companies like Line Energy. It's paying 10.5 percent. There are utilities, P&M
Resources, paying 7 percent. That's the utility of New Mexico. So that may be the best bet
for that other one third.

CHERNOFF: But that is -- consider that is a bet. If you're putting money in the stock market,
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there is certainly risk. But he's talking safety. He's talking safety here.

WILLIS: Particularly individual stocks.

KHALFANI-COX: But, frankly, if two-thirds is in an annuity paying that 6 percent, they don't
need to be as conservative.

WILLIS: All right guys, we've got to wrap it up here. Great conversation. Thanks to my
guests. Hilary, Lynnette and Allan, thank you so much.


VELSHI: You sure you don't want another few minutes to argue about annuities?

WILLIS: It wasn't annuities, it was (INAUDIBLE).

VELSHI: We're going to take it up a that was actually very interesting.

Time to get the results of today's Quick Vote. Nearly 40,000 of you weighed in. Forty
thousand. Don't you guys work? For how you voted, let's check back in with Poppy Harlow

It's because it's you, Poppy. When I do the Quick Vote, nobody votes.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: No, they work and they watch. They're hard at work
earning money to save money. When did you first start saving? A majority of you said in your
20s or you 30s. Check out those numbers. Only 11 percent of you waited until after you were
40. Thirteen percent of you say you'll start saving any day now. We'll have another question
for you tomorrow.


VELSHI: I'll be one of those. Thanks, Poppy.

WILLIS: Well, the economy is issue number one. And we here at CNN, we're committed to
covering it for you. ISSUE NUMBER ONE will be back here tomorrow, same time, 12:00 p.m.
Eastern, right here on CNN.

VELSHI: Time now to get you up to speed on other stories making headlines. CNN
"Newsroom" with Brianna Keilar and T.J. Holmes starts right now.

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        Reporting From Afghanistan;
                 Media Freedom Report ; McCartney vs. Mills

                     Aired February 15, 2008 - 20:30:00 ET


FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Fionnuala Sweeney in London.
Welcome to CNN's INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENTS, where we examine
how the media are covering the big stories.

This week, pressure on the press. The new report on media freedom around the
world. We list the countries of most concern.

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Images from Afghanistan. Photographer Tim Hetherington speaks to us about his
assignment for Vanity Fair.

And McCartney versus Mills. The media circus surrounding the high profile divorce
hearing between the former Beatle and his estranged wife.

Their job is to get the story, but more often it seems their lives are being put at risk. A
new study into media freedom around the globe reveals journalists faced one of their
bloodiest years in 2007. It also says news workers are under greater pressure to limit
what they report.

Our U.S. affairs editor Jill Douherty has more.


JILL DOUHERTY, CNN AFFAIRS EDITOR (voice-over): More danger, more arrests,
more deaths. That's the conclusion of Reporters Without Borders annual report on
press freedom.

journalists five years after the start of the war.

DOUHERTY: The organization issues its data amid reports of the kidnappings in Iraq
of two journalists from CBS. Worldwide, it says, 86 journalists were killed in 2007, the
highest number since 1994.

In some countries, reporters have been sentenced to death or died in prison. The
report highlights what it calls "media repression" by the Chinese government in the
run-up to this summer's Olympic Games in Beijing.

Reporters Without Borders charges China is breaking its promise to guarantee press
freedom. It's calling on President George Bush to raise the issue when he attends the
games. Chinese journalist He Qinlian, now living in the United States, says the
Chinese government blacklists foreign reporters who have written articles critical of
the Chinese government and will refuse to give them visas.

But journalists are at risk even in the United States. Paul Cobb publishes "The
Oakland Post" in California. His editor, Chauncey Bailey, was murdered after
investigating a local crime family.

PAUL COBB, PUBLISHER, OAKLAND POST: Shot in the chest, in the stomach.
Then the guy came back, stood over him, and shot him in the face.

DOUHERTY (on camera): Reporters Without Borders says its main concern this year
is for elections that are taking place in countries whose leaders distrust independent

(voice-over): The group expects problems, including physical attacks on journalists
during elections in Pakistan, Russia, Iran, and Zimbabwe. Another disturbing trend -
governments are cracking down on new media. Cellphones with cameras, video
sharing, and social networking sites.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who could have believed we could see what was
happening in Burma, the crackdown with the i-footage?

DOUHERTY: The worst country in the world for journalists, the report says, is the
African nation of Eritrea. And an Eritrean reporter who escaped his country put it,
they put fear into your soul so you won't open your mouth.

Jill Dougherty, CNN, Washington.


SWEENEY: For more on the Reporters Without Borders study, I'm joined by the
organization's Washington director Lucy Morillon, who's featured in Jill's report there.
Also, with us is Khalid Hasan, correspondent for Pakistan's "Daily Times" and "The
Friday Times." He's also in Washington.

Lucy Morillon, obviously, you say that your greatest concern is those countries where
they're going to be elections next year, where the leaders don't want independent
journalists. That's your biggest problem, you think, forecast?

was very bloody year for the press. And we expect 2008 to be a tough year as well
for the media.

One of our main constant is the election coming up this year. Most of the elections
are going to be held in countries where the leaders mistrust journalists. You know,
the media are the frontline of the elections. Either they cover the election, and they
can be victim of any crackdown on protest movements, or they can also be used as
scapegoats by supporters of leaders who think they haven't been treated fairly by the

So we really worried about elections coming up in Pakistan, in Russia, in
(INAUDIBLE), in Zimbabwe, amongst other countries.

SWEENEY: Khalid Hasan, obviously, being a Pakistani journalist, what is your take
on the situation in the run-up to the elections in Pakistan?

there's a lot of excitement. There's also a great deal of uncertainty. Because frankly,
lots of people believe I included (INAUDIBLE) Musharraf is in charge. There can't
really be any free and fair elections. But there is a tremendous upsurge, a popular
upsurge for free elections. And I think if the regime tries to rig them, there's going to
be a huge reaction.

People will pour out on the streets. And they will reject the verdict as has happened
in Kenya.

SWEENEY: Are you and other journalists placed under any kind of restrictions in
covering these elections?

HASAN: Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, there are all kinds of restrictions. Not so many
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on the print media, but a lot on the electronic media. Because the regime feels that
the electronic media sort of get across the people with more immediacy, and have a
greater impact.

And there is - there are restrictions on live coverage. Some of the most popular
anchors and hosts of discussion programs have been banned. They cannot appear
any more. And all kinds of other methods are used by the regime constantly to
harass journalists, to put pressure on the owners of television networks. And you
know, any means is employed to brow beat, you know, free comment.

SWEENEY: Lucy Morillon, what is a group like Reporters Without Borders able to
achieve in a situation such as Pakistan that's been outlined there by Khalid Hasan?

MORILLON: Well, I just want to add one thing about what Khalid Hasan said.
Reporters Without Borders is actually monitoring the election in Pakistan and the
media coverage of the election in Pakistan. We have been monitoring the - only
(INAUDIBLE) channel PTV, state owned PTV. And these past two weeks, we have
noticed that the political coverage of the channel is biased in favor of President

80 percent of the political coverage goes to the president, to his government, and to
the ruling party. So that doesn't bode well for the independence of these elections.
And we're trying to raise public awareness to also put pressure on western
government allies of Pakistan, so that they can put pressure on - in Musharraf and
ask for him to respect freedom of expression.

The fight against terrorism must not continue to be used by Pakistani authorities to
justify the crackdown on their critics, including journalists.

SWEENEY: Khalid Hasan, I mean, the crackdown you say in Pakistan is focused
mainly on the electronic media and the broadcast media, which Musharraf, President
Musharraf had been a great supporter initially. In fact, he expanded satellite
television coverage and independent television networks in Pakistan at the beginning
of his power.

HASAN: I know. He was a great supporter of free media, as long as the free media
continued to face him. But the moment it became critical of him, he cracked down.
And they descended on the free media like a ton of bricks, all kinds of new laws were
brought in. All kinds of restrictions were placed. And all the channels absolutely
disappeared from the air.

And even today, they continue to operate under new laws. They have an
organization called Pembra, which regulates coverage of the media, both electronic
and print. And they keep on issuing new instructions every day.

SWEENEY: Lucy Morillon, in the study that you've done of - in terms of monitoring
what's going on on the airwaves in Pakistan and the amount of coverage given to
President Musharraf, do you have any evidence for the kind of impact that has when
it comes to people going to the polling booths and voting on election day?

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MORILLON: Well, you know, obviously, this will have some impact on the media, on
the public. If you turn on the television and the only thing you can see is a point of
view of the ruling party, of the president in charge, then how can you get independent
information? The PTV TV station is still, you know, covering what's going on with the
opposition, but it's very little - a lot of time of the political coverage. And it's very - we
can very often see coverage - criticism from the government of the opposition. And
we don't really have any definite voice that is trying to tell Pakistani people what's
really going on in the country.

People need to have a balanced coverage of the news, of the political situation in
Pakistan to be able to make some decision in this election.

SWEENEY: Khalid Hasan, do you see the restrictions on the media in Pakistan
linked to the current situation, the war on terror? Do you see it as a temporary thing?

HASAN: No, first of all, I would like to clarify one thing. I think the channel which the
Reporters Without Borders has been monitoring in Pakistan is Pakistan Television,
which is a government channel, state owned channel. And they, of course, carry the
government viewpoint and provide just very token coverage to the opposition.

But there are other channels whose news programs are far more reflective of what is
going on. So that is a balancing factor. Although as I submitted earlier, there are
restrictions on those channels of all kinds.

As for your other question about the war on terrorism, frankly, the war on terrorism is
something which has really flourished under the military regime. And I'm sure if there
is a surge in government, a democratic government, the war on terror will take
definitely a turn for the better.

SWEENEY: All right, we must leave it there. We're out of time. But Khalid Hasan and
Lucy Morillon in Washington, D.C., thank you both very much indeed for joining us.

MORILLON: Thank you.

HASAN: Thank you.

assignment with U.S. troops in Afghanistan. Photographer Tim Hetherington speaks
to us about his images captured on the front lines. That's up next.

The divorce hearing between a former Beatle and ex model. Why it's become a major
media event. That story when we return.


SWEENEY: Welcome back. Big names often equal stories. That's certainly the case
when you're talking about Paul McCartney and Heather Mills. This week, the former
Beatle and ex model have been trying to hammer out a divorce settlement, one that
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could result in the biggest divorce payout in British legal history.

While McCartney and Mills both fought it out behind closed doors at their London
hearing, photographers and journalists jostled outside in somewhat of a media
frenzy. What they've been able to report has been kept private, given strict reporting

So with the story generating bold newspaper headlines in such a prominent spot in
television and radio bulletins here in the U.K. at least, how is the case reported when
there is no new information coming out?

Well, to assess that, I'm joined in the studio by Michael Booker, the deputy editor of
"The Daily Star Sunday." Also with us is CNN's Phil Bright.

Phil, how difficult is it to report on divorce proceedings when there isn't actually any
substance to report from the hearing itself?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is an extraordinary story in that sense.
Certainly, there is enormous international interest on day one of these proceedings.
The international media was there in almost sort of the size of an army, if you like.

Certainly huge interest. But as you say, this is a closed court, private hearing. So
therefore, there is a lot of interest, but certainly not a lot of information to back it up,
not a lot of substance.

And this has tended to mean that the media seem to focus on well, what they can,
what they can see. For example, the brief walk, if you like, both parties in this, both
Paul McCartney and Heather Mills, have to make brief strolls. No more than 10
seconds between the cars and their buildings. And there's been an incredible amount
of detail just looking at these players and the expressions on their faces, what they're
wearing. And from that, trying to analyze how the day's proceedings have gone.

SWEENEY: Tell me, does Heather Mills, I mean, Paul McCartney, do the pair of
them sell newspapers?

papers as much as any other topic of international importance. And people are
across the world very interested in this.

He is, after all, one of the Beatles, the biggest band in the world ever. People across
the world are interested in him. And.

SWEENEY: But she has become something of a hate figure in the British media at
least - I mean, that's what she alleges.

BOOKER: Well, she alleges that and she famously just a couple of months ago was
on a number of TV stations, radio stations saying that she was being target by some
parts of the press.
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But when she did that, she didn't help her case at all, because there she was
seemingly spilling secrets from the divorce case that she wasn't particularly quite
allowed to speak about.

SWEENEY: But that's good for you?

BOOKER: That was good for us. But at the same time, it wasn't great for her. And at
the same time, she's just given this impression of herself as being slightly unhinged.
And I think that's what was said at the time. People immediately said, well, she looks
as though she needed help and she needs someone to, you know, just put an arm
around her shoulder and say look, calm down a little bit here.

SWEENEY: But it does come back to the issue here, Phil Black, of reporting or
finding a two minute piece every day, so to be, on a story where you really have no
information. Does it force you personally to have to go down a more sort of tabloidy
route yourself?

BLACK: It certainly forces, I think, all journalists to have - look at details or aspects
that they perhaps would otherwise get washed over. I mean, ultimately, you report
what you can. So in this case, if the couple are exposing themselves for only 20
seconds a day on that brief journey between the vehicles and their buildings, then
that will get all of the attention.

It certainly is difficult. But if the interest is there, then the drive to report it is there as

SWEENEY: So you must be quite proud of yourself when you're able to fill a
newspaper week after week, or on proceedings when there really isn't anything to

BOOKER: Well, this week, it's been a headline writer's dream all in the first week. It is
interesting to see that even though Paul McCartney doesn't entirely like the limelight,
it appears that someone's had a word in his ear. The first day across a lot of different
pages of the major tabloids, there he was scowling. So the headlines were hard day's

The next day, I think he realized what was happening. And he knew the cameras are
on him. So he's smiling. So people - so think of another pony headline to go with the
Beatles record.

And it seems to be - it just seems as though he has seen what's going on, and now
just reporting through smiles and various photographs of being going in, that's where
a lot of people have been getting - what they think is coming out in court, and how it's
going. And I think he's getting that. So he's now starting to smile. He's starting to
wave a little bit.

SWEENEY: But Phil, do you think this has any impact at all on how it's viewed inside
the courtroom, the media interest? Do you think the judge is going to be interested in
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BLACK: In my court reporting experience, judges are used to these sorts of
situations. And they tend to be able to detach themselves from it. Quite clearly, there
have been reports that he has apparently warned the parties involved in this that they
should stay quiet, they should not get involved, and certainly not discuss what is
going on in there, don't give any of those sorts of details away.

There is an argument of these sorts of situations that perhaps the stories are self
perpetuating in a sense, when the media responds so - in such a grand way, so
aggressively, that with a frenzy, the circus if you like, is there. That in itself becomes
the story to some extent.

SWEENEY: If it becomes the story, are you and the tabloids interested in any
possible precedent that might set, legal precedent that might be set by this case? Or
is it all the drama surrounding it?

BOOKER: Well, of course, we have to be aware of the legal precedence. If there is a
result of this case that does affect us, then fair enough. We have to take it.

But that's not of much interest to the readers, I don't think. So we will focus them
again on the known players here. Heather, soon to be Mills, and Paul McCartney.

SWEENEY: How do you know what the reader's interested in?

BOOKER: Well, for us, as a national daily tabloid, and for the tabloids, we report - we
inform and we entertain at the same time. And to go down a very, very wordy legal
route isn't particularly of interest to most people.

SWEENEY: All right, we have to leave it there. Phil Black, Michael Booker, thanks
very much indeed.

And we want to know what you think. Do you believe celebrity divorce hearings
warrant widespread media coverage? You can take part in our website, While you're there, you can find out more about the show,
watch all or part of it again, and read our weekly blog. It's all at

Now when we return, from the frontlines, photographer Hetherington tells us about
some of the most poignant images he captured while on assignment for Vanity Fair in
Afghanistan. That's next.


TIME STAMP: 2053:19

SWEENEY: Welcome back. It has the highest concentration of fighting in
Afghanistan. Given that, images from the Koingo (ph) Valley and the eastern
province in Kanar (ph) are rare. Photographer Tim Hetherington spent several weeks
with U.S. troops in the region. He captured a series of images as part of a year long
assignment for Vanity Fair.
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Tim Hetherington gave us his thoughts on the mission and his pictures. This is his


Hetherington. I'm a photographer and filmmaker. If you look at Afghanistan, the
Congo represents the sort of - the extremities of the war there.

17 percent of all combat, not us American, but also European combat in Afghanistan,
takes place in the Congo Valley. 70 percent of American munitions in Afghanistan are
dumped in and around that valley. And that valley is six miles long.

This is old fashioned combat. They're over running American runs and shooting
people in the head at 10 feet. It's - those soldiers are not from rich families. They are
farming communities. And it's the hard working blue collar America that feeds their
sons into - into this military machine.

I don't feel we can ever experience that kind of length of combat going on every day.
And it's very draining. It's quite extreme sometimes.

That is Gutierrez lying on the ground. And the insurgents attacked the outpost. And
he was filling up a head (INAUDIBLE), which is like a sand bag. And he was on top of
it. And they shot at him. And he jumped down. And being the sort of, you know,
classic paratrooper, you know, he broke his leg. And he snapped his tibia and fibula

But what was amazing was to see three guys go into a place where their incoming
rounds are coming and grab him and pull him out.

There have been a number of incidents in the fighting that had almost stirred up the
hornet's nest in the valley, which has included also the accidental bombing of civilian
house - civilian deaths.

One day, we were on top - we were on the part of the ridge. And we were attacked
for about 270 degrees. There was a guy, Sergeant Larry Rugle (ph) , who was killed
instantaneously, took a bullet in the head. Two other guys were injured. (INAUDIBLE)
was shot in the stomach. And the (INAUDIBLE) was shot in the arm.

And the men were so - they were in such a state of shock, I'd really never seen
anything like it in my life before in the way that - to see these men crying and
wandering around in a complete daze.

We went to the Afghan army. And they started to try and drag the body of this soldier
away by its feet. And Brayon (ph) came up and just was screaming at them, saying
you know, he's not - you're not going to drag him out like this out of this place. You're
not - you know, you give him some respect.

And so I and another soldier picked up the body and put it onto his back. And he
carried his friend off this part of the battlefield. And Rice walked back. He - people
came to try and help him and he just told them to get lost. And he was crying. And he
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was crying to Vandenberg, his friend - he was so upset, saying I'm so sorry you got
shot. I'm so sorry. He walked 200 meters unaided. And he says of fighting in
Afghanistan, which makes me laugh, he says it's - you know, growing up on a farm in
Wisconsin was no less difficult than fighting in Afghanistan.


SWEENEY: Images and thoughts from Tim Hetherington on assignment for Vanity
Fair in Afghanistan.

Well, that's all for this edition of the program. Tune in again next time for another look
at how the media are handling the big issues.

I'm Fionnuala Sweeney. Thanks for joining us.


                                   The War Within :

      A Look The Struggle Between Britain's Mainstream Muslims

                       And The Radicals Advocate Jihad

                          Aired January 20, 2007 - 20:00 ET


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RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rick Sanchez. Up next that report
that John was just mentioning, by CNN Special Investigations Unit, is a look by
Christiane Amanpour of what's going on within the Muslim community itself and
especially as it relates to many of the terrorists activities all over the world.
Tonight is one of many upcoming programs by the Special Investigations Unit. How
to rob a bank. We'll look at $50-billion identity theft cam, all it takes a little account
information and swoosh your money is gone. Never to be seen again.

Then, CNN's John Roberts investigates Iraqi death squads, the situation on the
ground a toxic mix of ancient feuds and religious divisions, with death squads
reportedly working with Iraqi security forces, something you will see only on CNN.

A real life "Grey's Anatomy" coming up. "Grade's Anatomy," it's called, this is by Dr.
Sanjay Gupta." He takes you inside Atlanta's huge Grady Memorial Hospital, that is
where Doctor Gupta works, by the way. And we'll follow some residents and get a
glimpse at the job's intense pressures.

You'll see all of those specials will be coming up over the next couple of weeks.
Meanwhile we're following the day's news as well, including Hillary Clinton's run for
the White House. She announced her intentions in a slickly produced web video. I'm
going to talk to some insiders at 10:00 Eastern about that.

Right now, though, a report from CNN's Special Investigations Unit, this is the
Christiane Amanpour's special we've been telling you about, "The War Within" the
Muslim community. a real inside look. Here is Christiane Amanpour.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Morning, morning, morning, it is Monday morning. It's
beautiful outside, it's 12 degrees, it's crisp.

(voice over): The morning commute to the city, London's financial district. Every day,
300,000 people commute to work here, amid fears that Britain is now Al Qaeda's
number one target.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Raised in Britain, and a member of Al-Qaeda. Today the
prosecution outlined how Barat (ph) wanted to blow up a tube train as it passed
beneath the Thames. AMANPOUR: I'm Christiane Amanpour. For the last 10 years,
London has been my refuge from the conflicts raging overseas, but now those
conflicts have erupted right here. Nothing has been the same since suicide bombers
struck London's buses and tubes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The head of MI-5 has warned the terrorist threat faced by
Britain will last for a generation.

AMANPOUR: British intelligence says it knows of 30 terrorist plots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people being encouraged to attack us are young, British-
born Pakistani Muslims, groomed to carry out appalling atrocities.

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AMANPOUR: Inflammatory headlines spread Islamaphobia.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Muslim women, who wear the veil are not aliens.

AMANPOUR: And Britain's Muslims wonder how they fit in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we're not careful, we will have bloodshed on our streets,
based on race and faith. This is something serious.

AMANPOUR: We uncover stories never heard, images never seen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tough streets of Baghdad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gang members driving down this street.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can hear and see the choppers.

ANNONCER: Now, Amanpour reports.

AMANPOUR: It's been dubbed Londonistan, the hidden world of London's home-
grown Islamic extremists. They are a tiny minority of Britain's 1.6 million Muslims, but
they have no trouble getting their voices heard.

ANJEM CHOUDARY, MUSLIM RADICAL: One day, you will conquer Rome! One
day, one day you will conquer the White House!

AMANPOUR: Anjem Choudary is the public face of Islamic extremism in Britain. His
group, Amwar Jaroun (ph) disbanded before the British government could outlaw it
under its new anti-terrorism rules, but that hasn't shut Choudary up.

CHOUDARY: Whoever insults Islam or insults the Prophet Mohammad deserves
capital punishment!

AMANPOUR: That was Choudary's inflammatory rhetoric just days after Pope
Benedict's controversial speech about Islam.

CHOUDARY: Pope Benedict, you will pay!

CROWD CHANTING: Pope Benedict, you will pay!

CHOUDARY: The Mujahedeen are on their way.

CROWD CHANTING: The Mujahedeen are on their way!

AMANPOUR: Outside Westminster Cathedral, British Catholics looked on in

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can stand outside our church and abuse us, and abuse
our religion and abuse people we hold dear, with absolute impunity.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The simple question to the Christians is, do you condemn
what the pope said? Do you condemn the pope?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I don't condemn --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you condemn what the pope?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What he said --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes or no? Do you condemn the pope?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If any of us was to amble up to, you know, the mosque at
Regent's Park and say anything in regards to Allah or Mohammad or what have you.
Best case scenario, take away the police for inciting racial hatred. Worst case
scenario, attacked by a bunch of thugs wearing tea towels on their heads.

CHOUDARY: Democracy, hypocrisy.

AMANPOUR: Even away from the bully pulpit, Choudary, who is a lawyer, not a
cleric, continues to advocate extremist views, like calling for Sharia, Islamic law for

CHOUDARY: All of the world belongs to Allah, and we will live according to the
Sharia where we are. This is a fundamental belief of the Muslims. You know, if I was
to go to the jungle tomorrow, I'm not going to live like the animals.

AMANPOUR (on camera): Anjem, basically, a lot of what you're saying is, it's my way
or the highway. I mean, how does that kind of logic fit into a democratic state like the
one we live in now? And like the one you live in? You live here by choice. Do you not
believe in democracy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't at all. We believe that people must live according
to the Sharia.

AMANPOUR: That would mean in a country such as Britain, people would have their
hands cut off for robbery, we'd be stoned for what you call adultery, hanged? You
can see that happening?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One day the Sharia will be implemented in Britain. It's a
matter of time. Whether it comes through our peaceful discussion and debate,
whether it comes because the Mujahedeen would send an army one day, Allah

CHOUDARY (voice over): An Islamic army coming to lay down the law in Britain?
What do people think in Walthamstowe, one of London's biggest Muslim


AMANPOUR (on camera): Ishmael, would you like to see Sharia law in England?

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ISHMAEL: Sharia, what's that?

AMANPOUR: Islamic law?

ISHMAEL: No, no. I'm Muslim myself, but like for someone to tell me that's the law of
the whole country, the whole land, I think it's wrong. This is a free land. Everyone's
entitled to what they want to do, you know what I mean? It's not Taliban here.

AMANPOUR: It's not the Taliban?

ISHMAEL: It's not the Taliban here, you know what I mean?

AMANPOUR (voice over): But you wouldn't know it at this traditional Muslim
wedding. Choudary has come to officiate.

CHOUDARY: In the West they want to say equality between all people, between men
and women. However, Allah has created us different. I mean, surely he has given
man authority over the woman, he has given him qowama (ph) because he provides
food, clothing and shelter.

AMANPOUR: They never saw the bride or the female wedding guests. They were
segregated in different halls. But we were invited to witness the nica (ph), the dowry
agreement between the groom and his father-in-law.

CHOUDARY: Allah, please accept this Nica to be conducted in accordance with the


AMANPOUR: And even at this wedding, Choudary preaches holy war.

CHOUDARY: Allah please bless him with pious children that will continue the jihad to
liberate our land. Allah, please support all the mujahedeen wherever they are, Iraq,
Chechnya, Palestine, Kashmir, Fallujah, Darfur.

AMANPOUR: But how about those who carried out the London's subway attacks on
July 7th, 2005? Choudary gives an ominous answer.

CHOUDARY: I'm not planning to blow myself up on the Underground, or carry out a
martyrdom operation in Britain. However, those people who may be, will be doing
what Mohammed said they can and (UNINTELLGIBLE) and other did, probably
because of the same reasons, which they included in their wills. I think you really
need to take a look at that.

AMANPOUR: This is the videotape will of one of the subway suicide bombers,
Mohammed Sadiq Kahn.

MOHAMMED SADIQ KHAN, SUICIDE BOMBER: Until we feel security, you will be
our targets. Until you stop the bombing and gassing and imprisonment and torture of
my people, we will not stop this fight. We are at war and I am a soldier. Now, you,
too, will taste the reality of this situation.

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AMANPOUR (on camera): Those reasons that they included in their will, are those
reasons justified in your view, or in your view of Islam?

CHOUDARY: I think we have everything we need in those wills.

AMANPOUR: Where in the Koran does it justify the killing of innocents?

CHOUDARY: I'd like to get on to another question, because I've answered that
question already.

AMANPOUR: Have you? In Koran?

CHOUDARY: In the video of Mohammed Sadiq Kahn he quotes the verse in the
Koran, which is chapter 2, verse 111, where Allah says he has purchased from the
believers the life they will kill others and be killed.

SADIQ: Muslims all over the world I strongly advise you to sacrifice this life for the

AMANPOUR: There are Mullah, Imams, today who say that the suicide bombers
have really done a lot of damage to the reputation of Islam. They're saying that the
kinds of things that you are saying is, in fact, damaging the religion so much.

CHOUDARY: Well, you obviously are just making a statement here. There's no real
question there. The fact is, people don't refer to you for Islam. They refer to people
like Sheikh Abek Mohammed, people like Sheikh Ayman Al Zawahiri, like Sheikh
Osama bin Laden. I happen to be in an ideological and political war, my brothers in
Al Qaeda and other Mujahedeen are involved in a military campaign.

AMANPOUR: You call them your brothers. Do you mean that?

CHOUDARY: Of course.


CHOUDARY: Of course, every Muslim in the world is my brother.

These people, ladies and gentlemen, have a good look at them. They actually think if
you kill children, if you kill a woman you would go to heaven. You have no chance in
hell! And you are a lawyer, Mr. Choudray?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't kill children!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I speak? I'd like to say that this is not an ideology. It's a
mental illness.


AMANPOUR: And stopping it from spreading may be the most important battle for
Britain today.

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AMANPOUR (voice over): Hanif Qadir is a youth worker in Walthamstowe. Overnight
he discovered that he was on the frontline of Britain's battle against terror, when
police arrested 14 young men in his neighborhood.

HANIF QADIR, YOUTH WORKER: There's a minority, I mean, in the schools that
actually believe that -- I mean these are Muslims and non-Muslims, and this is very
shocking -- but blowing people up is quite cool.

AMANPOUR (on camera): That blowing people up is cool?

QADIR: It's quite cool, yeah.

AMANPOUR (voice over): Last August British police descended on Wolfenstowe,
saying they had foiled a conspiracy to blow up a dozen U.S.-bound airliners with
liquid explosives. This set off the biggest security alert since 9/11.

QADIR: I got an e-mail about this, so I put the question to some of these guys, and
the answers I got back is, when a bomb goes off in Baghdad or Afghanistan, and
innocent women and children are killed over there, who cares for them? So if a bomb
goes off in America, or in London, what's wrong with that?

AMANPOUR: Indeed, a poll in "The Times of London", showed a shocking 13
percent of British Muslims believe the London subway bombers were martyrs, and
many British Muslims see the Iraq war as a war against Islam, against them.

(On camera): We're talking about England here, we're talking about young Muslims,
who have grown up in this country. I think people would be really stunned to hear you
say that it is essentially foreign policy which is causing youngsters to blow
themselves up on the subway system, and youngsters to think that that's cool.

QADIR: Foreign policy has a lot to do with it, but it's -- it's the minority radical groups
that use that, to get to our young people.

AMANPOUR (voice over): And some of those young Muslims are easy prey, because
they believe the British government crackdown is scapegoating them, as when
Minister John Reid came to talk to Walthamstowe parents.

MINISTER JOHN REID: There are fanatics who are looking to groom and brainwash
children, including your children, so all I say is look for those telltale signs now.

AMANPOUR: One of those fanatics was in the room, waiting to pounce.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they come to your own houses, when your house is
raided or your business is raided, you'll be just as irate as I am!

AMANPOUR: Omar Brooks, a self-styled religious leader of an extremist group that is
now banned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm the one they call extremist rubbish!

QADIR: Now, he's went in there, and he's you know, he's shouting and he's hollering
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at everybody and everybody thinking, yes, this guy is against the system.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm outside. Where's your freedom of speech now?


QADIR: They're considered to be heroes, you know, for the younger guys. Yes, get in
there. He's telling them how it is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They should not come to Muslim area. We don't want to see
John Reid, we don't want to Tony Blair, or any of your cronies.

QADIR: It's very easy for them guys to then come back into the community and have
a lot of supporters.

AMANPOUR: These people? Many of them self-appointed clerics, are dominating the
national debate, and certainly the debate within Islam right now. They're the loudest
voices. How is that possible?

QADIR: Because our scholars have educated themselves to preach Islam are not
coming out of their holes, their mosques and their holes to engage these people.
They're frightened of that.

AMANPOUR: So, Hanif is desperately trying to fix that, trying to get the mosque
elders, many still stuck in the tribal traditions of Pakistan, to communicate with the
younger generation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd like to ask these young people, because I'm part of the
committee of next-door mosque, which young men come into the mosque and the
mosque refuses?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many times, you, the community leaders, have tried to
engage with us, the youths, I want to know? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometimes
young people like you go in the mosque and the older people are praying, and you
disturb the prayer. We know about young people, what you do. Some of you -- no,
you listen to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not attacking the mosques. We're attacking the elders.

AMANPOUR: What do you think is your most serious problem right now as young
Muslim men in England?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We feel like the youth have been called the enemy within.
Because they're blaming us on being terrorists, blaming us as suicide bombers, when
they have no, no right to actually accuse us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I was walking down the street, right, with my mosque hat on
and my beard, and you know what, straight away, terrorist. They would think

AMANPOUR: Extremism can thrive amongst kids who see no way out of their ethnic
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QADIR: They're into all kinds of vices. They're into street crime, gun crime, drugs, car
theft, credit card fraud. But then you've now got another threat.

AMANPOUR (on camera): What's the new threat?

QADIR: The new threat is radicalism. It's a cause. Every young man wants a cause.

AMANPOUR (voice over): So, Hanif's cause is to break the ice. This time in a pool
tournament between the police and the young men who often find themselves on the
wrong side of the law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the street they hate the uniform, at all. So this is to break
them barriers. I think it is a brilliant idea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is unusual to see it, but it's quite good at the same time,
because like the kids and the police are mixing together. I personally think it's a great

QADIR: All it takes is just foothold. It wasn't just the game. It was them being here.
They were in the same room having a laugh and a joke. The same guys they've
arrested many times, and may arrest again. But you know what, they've got one think
in common now, they're playing pool. And it's the only chance they've got to beat

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On behalf of the Metropolitan Police this is for the Active
Change Foundation Pool Tournament October 2006. Well done.


AMANPOUR: It's a good start for Walthamstowe, but it is only a start.

QADIR: You can be Muslim and you can be British, you know. Like you can be
Christian and you can be British. You can be Jewish and you can be British.

If the British-born Muslims really want to do something to stop people damaging
Islam, then start reading up on your book, explain it to your children, come out of your
denial phase. They only conspirers against Islam, at the moment, right? And the
biggest threat to Islam at the moment is our enemies within.


MUSIC VIDEO: Gonna build a dirty bomb, use the spirit of religion and education.

AMANPOUR: Bombs and in the backlash, seeping even into song, how far will it go?


MUSIC VIDEO: I reject your truth because it's all a lie, reject your proof, like
American pie.

AMANPOUR (voice over): Rejection has been Aki Nawaz's thing since the days of
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punk rock. His latest blast against the system and his angry new album, sum up what
many young British Muslims reject today, the war in Iraq, the war against terror, and
all its infamous abuses.

SINGER: Reject war and terror

AMANPOUR (on camera): Why is the cover of your album so provocative?

AKI NAWAZ, DIRECTOR, NATION RECORDS: It's provocative because I find, now it
represents American foreign policy, which is far more provocative than any other
piece of artwork has ever been.

AMANPOUR: And you can't get much more provocative than this track, Aki's song
and video about making a dirty bomb.

SINGER: Gonna build a dirty bomb, this is education. My Ph.D. will free me,
weapons grade uranium, a suitcase of Semtex a mobile phone trigger blow them all
to hell for a million-dollar figure.

NAWAZ: I decided to write this track called "Cookbook DIY" how a common man can
make a bomb, how an educated man makes a bomb, and how a scientist from the
White House makes a bomb. And I was trying to say that morally, they are all as
repulsive as each other.

SINGER: I insist I'm a legitimate scientist, paid by the government with your finances.
There's less radiation so you get a cleaner bomb, sure, money people, it costs a

AMANPOUR: When you put out the songs about dirty bombs or benefits of jihad,
does it ever cross your mind that young people who might be inclined to take that
and run with it in a violent way might do so?

NAWAZ: That would be like saying -- me saying, you know, I'm angry because I
watched "Rambo". Hollywood is making films, you are making documentaries about
terrorism, about the current situation, blah, blah, blah. You're allowed to do all of this
stuff, but me as a Muslim, being asked that question, just again exposes the kind of
pathetic intelligence that's rife out there, where one rule is for one, and another rule is
for another.

AMANPOUR: But it is, in fact -- Muslims -- who have been blowing up planes and
hijacking planes and taking them into buildings, going on to subways in your own
capital --

NAWAZ: As far as terrorism is concerned, we can't even touch the immensity of state
terrorism that has gone on by the West.

AMANPOUR: You mean that?

NAWAZ: I absolutely mean it, right across the globe, even in Europe people are sick,
sick to death of the American foreign policy.

AMANPOUR: Aki Nawaz may be on the cultural cutting edge, but his take on
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America is becoming mainstream in Britain's Muslim community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's see what a wonderful surprise.

AMANPOUR: This so worries the United States that it sent its ambassador, Robert
Tuttle, and his wife Maria, to reach out to Muslims here in Britain. Today they're
visiting Birmingham's central mosque.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I was to strap a bomb into myself and go into Birmingham's
city center and blow innocent people up I'm not practicing what my preaching. My
religion is Islam, the religion of peace. Likewise what America preaches, and its
actions don't go together.

ROBERT TUTTLE, U.S. AMBASSADOR: At the end of the day, until you can have
free elections and open dialogue like we're having here now, then that's when you
truly have peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't bring democracy to Iraq if you bomb cities and kill
children and men and women. They're not going to love you. If you're killing my child,
I'm not going to love you. I'm going to hate you. And this is what he has done. Sorry,
Mr. Ambassador, you know, you're a nice man. How can you defend Mr. George
Bush's policy? And I hope as soon as he goes, Mr. Bush, somebody sensible comes
in power in America it will be very beautiful.

TUTTLE: Let me say first let the record show he said I was a nice man, let's not
forget that, all right? I've known President Bush for 25 -- almost 25 years. He's not
anti-Muslim. He's not anti-Islam.

AMANPOUR: But the ambassador can see he's facing a tough audience, still, he
cannot afford to ignore them. TUTTLE: This is the largest mosque in the United
Kingdom, the largest mosque in Western Europe. I think the reaching out and the
discussion and the dialogue is what really counts here.

AMANPOUR: And that gets more critical by the day. Especially in Birmingham,
Britain's second largest city with its largest Muslim minority. Mohamed Ali is a
Birmingham artist, also known as Aerosol Arabic.

MOHAMMED ALI, ARTIST: Transforming a wall into a piece of art, in itself, you know
this is so exciting.

AMANPOUR: He rose from painting graffiti on city walls to displaying his art in
museums and stately halls.

ALI: This is actually a chap, a guy, who is making the round, the call for prayer.

ALI: God has given me a gift which is the ability to paint, so I'm using my skills which
I might have to be able to change in society. You see something negative and you
actively go to change that.
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AMANPOUR: Mohammed Ali's reaction to the negative atmosphere is to practice
what he paints.

ALI: People are increasingly becoming disillusioned or they are being led astray. This
is not the way. I mean, I've done workshops for kids and I say to them, if you've got
issues, put it onto a canvas, you know, paint, express yourself.

AMANPOUR: And that is quite literally the aim of Mohammed Ali's new project, a
giant street mural that he'll be painting on the side of an Islamic nursery, along with
students from a multi-faith high school.

ALI: The whole mural supported by the Reverend John, he's a chaplain of the local
college, and the head headmaster here of the faith-based Islamic nursery. Everybody
engaging together to work on the mural together to me it's a powerful thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're about to redo everything. This has come at a perfect

ALI: Ok, guys, are you ready?

AMANPOUR: In a flash, Mohammad turns into Aerosol Arabic, and this ugly wall into
a piece of street art.

ALI I'm going to give you the same cans so we'll have red, orange, yellow, blending
up to the top. You understand? First of all shake your can as well.

AMANPOUR: None of these students has ever even wielded a spray can before.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's nice. It's nice to have a chance. It's good. I like it. It's
my first time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you need to do, see as Tony showed you, you solid
and blending up like that.

ISKAR KHAN, SCHOOL INSPECTOR: I just think it's great that people from across
the communities are going here and united to produce a piece of artwork like this.

It's the issue of the day, unless the communities work together like this we haven't
got a rosy future to look forward to. We need to do more of this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will have various icons from different faiths in the form of
architecture, so we can have, you know, the Martyrs' Church and Birmingham
Central Mosque to represent the unity of the people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's good. It promotes like brotherhood, non-Muslims
alike, you know, they think negative of us so it's nice to have that image to show that
you know, to bring us closer, if you know what I mean. So it's a good thing.

REV. JOHN BREADON, CHAPLAIN: The views of Islam and Britain have taken quite
a knocking, so to see an expression of Islamic faith in a very interesting art medium is
all for the good.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the great thing about graffiti and this outdoor art taken
on the streets, because it's art for the people, looking at that and people around you
here. These aren't the people going to the nice big galleries, this is art going out to
the people in an accessible form that young and old can say you know what? I like
this. It's transforming something ugly because believe me that wall was ugly.

AMANPOUR: While Mohammed Ali tries to transform the ugliness that's dividing
Britain, from his recording studio, Aki Nawaz is trying to make sure that every Muslim
child here grows up to question that ugliness.

NAWAZ: All I want my kids to know is that they have absolutely every single right that
the British people have. They're allowed dissent. They're allowed to be provocative.
They can be a part of society or put the middle finger up at society.

AMANPOUR: Muslim women take on hot button issues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got the door slammed in our face.

AMANPOUR: In Britain's war within.


RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Rick Sanchez checking in with you once again
to bring you up-to-date on what's going on. First of all, sad news coming out of Iraq
once again. The U.S. military says that five American soldiers were killed in a militia
attack in Karbala, Iraq. Northeast of Baghdad a U.S. helicopter goes down, it killed 13
were on board, that means the total deaths of U.S. troops in Iraq in the last 24 hours,

Also, we're proud to announce today that Re/Max boss Dave Liniger is the proud
owner of "Warrior One." That's right. It's our vehicle, the one we used in Iraq to tell
you the story, the winning bird for CNN's tricked out military Hummer, one and a
quarter million dollars. Another businessman added $250,000 to the bid, all in the
name of charity.

Proceeds to the Fisher House which gives temporary homes to families of U.S.
troops receiving major medical care. It's something we're proud to say we took part in
and proud to say we carried through on.

Also a reminder, CNN's special investigations unit has plenty on tap for the month of
February. First how to rob a bank, it's really an in-depth look at the $50 billion identity
theft scam that could affect all of us. CNN special investigations unit has been
working on this. It is going to air on Saturdays and Sundays at 8:00 p.m., all of these
over the next couple of weeks.

Now if news breaks over the next couple of hours, I'll be right back on the air to share
with you whatever it is that's going on. In the meantime let's take you back to this
special investigations unit, this is called THE WAR WITHIN.

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You're watching Christiane Amanpour talking about the rift that in many cases exists
within the Muslim community. Here is Christiane.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well if Christians were the cross, Jews have the Star of
David, Muslims have the crescent moon. What symbol if any should atheists have?

AYESHA HAZARIKA, COMEDIAN: Chris says the symbol for atheists must be a
flame to remind Christians they used to burn atheists.

AMANPOUR: Ayesha Hazarika likes to confront hot button topics head on, whether
it's on a radio or before an audience at a London comedy club.

HAZARIKA: I'm quite a moderate Muslim in a kind of wine swilling, bacon sandwich
chomping kind of way but that hasn't stopped people being very hostile towards me.

I gig in some very - I guess very white areas that they are probably very fearful and
very hateful of Muslims because of everything that's happened.

And a couple of days after the bombs went off in London, this woman phones me up
at my office and she goes, "Ayesha, just want to let you know, nobody blames you."

And then she follows up with lots of, you know, "You mustn't blame yourself." I was
like I didn't until that point. Thanks!

AMANPOUR (on camera): So you really felt there in that one phone call that society
is looking at all of your community in that weird way.

HAZARIKA: Up until that point I think I sort of had distanced myself from it but then
suddenly I thought I guess I am a Muslim, and people must think well you're a
Muslim, part of your community did this. You're sort of guilty by association.

There is a lot of really massive stereotyping going on in society at the moment.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): And nobody has been more stereotyped than women who
wear the niqab, the complete face veil. That's become a lightning rod for controversy
after a teacher was suspended for wearing it on the job.

Rukkiya Ghani is just another anonymous figure in the crowd but her veil now says
more about her than her face ever did. Do you feel part of the British culture, part of
British society and life?

RUKKIYA GHANI, WEARS NIQAB: Absolutely. I find it quite a bizarre question to be
asked. I've been, you know, born in this country, brought up here, and you know,
everything about me is pretty much English.

AMANPOUR (on camera): What is the most common question that you get asked?

GHANI: Why? Why do you cover? Why do you do it? We just don't understand. I see
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it as an obligation of my faith.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Actually, the niqab is more about is more about culture
than the Koran, just like the fact that more than half of Britain's mosques don't allow
women to pray inside.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've come to pray to do my prayers.

AMANPOUR: That's why these Muslim women are trying to get their foot in the door.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please. We've got the door slammed in our face.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm so disappointed. He just shut the door on me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't have space for the woman.

AMANPOUR: And this debate continued on the air. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's
just a small flavor of the reception a group of Muslim women got when they tried to
pray in a London mosque with the men. But is now the right time to be fighting the
battle of the sexes within Islam? Catherine, how was this experience for you? Why do
you want to pursue it?

CATHERINE HOSSEIN, IMPAC: Because it is an intrinsic right in our religion,
according to Islam we have this right to pray in mosques but because of cultural
reasons, you know, the older generation in some mosques in this country are
excluding us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not supposed to show your face to the man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't ask you to have the rights in the mosque and
take over the mosque. All we want to do is come and pray. At least slam the door
properly, love.

HOSSEIN: I think this is absolutely the right time for women within Islam to be having
these kind of debates and if more and more women were allowed to have a greater
role in Muslim community it would help temper some of the extremism which is
ruining things for the whole community.

AMANPOUR: How delicate is the situation in England?

HAZARIKA: I think the situation is incredibly delicate, the majority of Muslims in this
country are very passionate about their religion, but they're also moderate people.
They're also passionate about their lives that they've created for themselves in

AMANPOUR: Like Ayesha herself and her family, who made a cross- cultural leap
when they moved from India to Scotland.

HAZARIKA: When my dad first moved to Glasgow one of his patients said to him,
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What are you? And he said I'm a Muslim. Aye, but what kind, a Rangers Muslim or a
Celtics Muslim?

AMANPOUR: Football teams. That's good.

HAZARIKA: I thought that was brilliant. I thought that was fantastic.

AMANPOUR: What was he? Is he?

HAZARIKA: Whatever you are.

We want to remove this idea that Islam is a religion of peace. Islam is not a religion of

AMANPOUR: Will growing Islamophobia push British Muslims even further apart?


AMANPOUR: This could be London's next big landmark, and big controversy, a
mosque, unlike any seen before.

ALI MANGERA, ARCHITECT: We are really basing it on Islamic landscapes, desert
landscapes so we've got this sort of dune-like very soft structures which then form
these terraces at the back.

AMANPOUR (on camera): And totally modern.

MANGERA: Yeah, completely modern.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Ali Mangera is one of Britain's hot young architects. What
are you trying to say, or are you trying to say anything about Islam?

MANGERA: Well, we're trying to say the Islam is progressive so hopefully Christian
groups or Jewish groups could sit around the olive grove and discuss peace, that's
really our aim.

AMANPOUR (on camera): Wouldn't that be nice?

MANGERA: Wouldn't that be nice.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): You'd think that everyone would be ecstatic at Ali's vision.
Just like they were when London won its bid to host the 2012 Olympics, but the mega
mosque will hold 40,000 Muslim worshippers, and it will be the most visible
monument from the games.

ALAN CRAIG, CHRISTIAN PEOPLE'S ALLIANCE: The site itself, an old chemical

AMANPOUR: City councilor Alan Craig is leading a campaign against it.

CRAIG: There you have it. This is the mega mosque, the huge building you've seen
on the plants and architects would be right there.
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AMANPOUR: It looks like wasteland. What's wrong with putting a mosque or
anything there?

CRAIG: This is different. This is huge, this is massive. This is going to be at least the
biggest mosque in Europe, some say the biggest mosque outside the Middle East.

AMANPOUR: And right now, it's become the biggest symbol of the tug-of-war that's
happening here over Islam. Today councilor Craig and his supporters are canvassing
the neighborhood.

CRAIG: Hello, sorry to bother you. My name's Alan Craig. I'm a local councilor, I'm
calling around about a large mosque for their plan to build just across the way here.

You've heard about this mosque, this large one. What is your reaction to the plans,
would you welcome or not welcome the plans? Do you approve or disapprove?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not welcome. CRAIG: Not welcome. You wouldn't like to
have it here.

AMANPOUR: A blunt view shared by other East Enders.

(on camera): Why do you not want to see this mega mosque here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To be honest we're overcrowded here now, without getting
a load more people coming. I'm living here, you know? It's just overcrowded.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): The mega mosque will pack in even more people than the
big league soccer stadium does every weekend. But for Muslims in the
neighborhood, Craig's campaign just smacks of more Islamophobia.

(on camera): So what's your opinion, should there be a mosque, another big mega

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This the first time I'm hearing it myself and with all respect I
feel that's a brilliant idea. If it was another religion they would have got planning
permission to build straight away. Whenever it's Muslims there seems to be barriers.
I don't understand why.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Some say Craig's campaign against the mosque is really
a competition between faiths.

How would you describe yourself?

CRAIG: I'm a committed Christian.

AMANPOUR: A lot of this sounds like, sorry to say, white middle class anger and fear
of Muslims right now.

CRAIG: I would just say that's nonsense. I'm used to people insulting me and calling
me anti-Muslim and calling me Islamophobic. Muslims have the right to build
mosques, just as others have the right to build churches or Hindu temples and so on.
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It is value toyed ask these questions.

AMANPOUR: And the biggest question is about Tabliki Gemayad (ph), the group
that's commissioned the mega mosque, it is among the most secretive and
fundamentalist of Britain's major Muslim organizations. It never allows cameras
inside its mosques, but now the group is reaching out.

Abdul Khaliq, a Tabliki member and businessman, is now spokesman for the mega
mosque project.

(on camera): What is the Tabliki philosophy? It is secret. We don't know, we're not
allowed in.

ABDUL KHALIQ, BUSINESSMAN: It's not secret at all. The doors are quite open. It's
just they do not engage with the media and that's why it's not known to the people.
Their philosophy is you should have Islam within you in such a way it should reflect
from you. AMANPOUR: But that peaceful image does not sway Tabliki critics.

CRAIG: There are a number of people who have become terrorists, who have
become suicide bombers, who were closely associated with Tablikli Gemayad,
including the leading of the 7/7, London 7/7 bombers, Mohammed Sadiqi Kahn (ph).
So is there an association between what Tabligi Gemayad are teaching and the
terrorists and the suicide bombers?

AMANPOUR: The FBI, French intelligence is looking at Tabliki Gemayed because of
its links to terrorism, fundamentalism, its potential influence and people are scared.

KHALIQ: People need not be scared. They have investigated for a long time. What
have they found? There are millions of people following this organization. Do you not
think after all that time for them to produce only two terrorists? If it was an
organization, don't you think there would be hundreds and thousands of them?
Tabliki does not encourage terrorism in any way whatsoever.

AMANPOUR: It's a view shared by Shahid Malik, one of only four Muslim MPs in
Britain's parliament.

Obviously there's a lot of spotlight on Tabliki mostly because they're secretive. You
know them. They're your constituency. What are they like?

ideology. That doesn't mean evil people might not go to one of their mosques.

AMANPOUR (on camera): Muslims that we've talked to feel under assault, under fire.
Do you feel that?

MALIQ: I think the Muslim community feels under siege and n this country after the
7th of July, 2005, where we had the heinous suicide bombers in London and there's
a degree of polarization that's taken place in our communities.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): And many worry that will push Muslims in Britain to retreat
into their communities even further.

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CRAIG: We have a great debate going on in this country about the whole nature of
multiculturalism. And if there is the possibility that this mosque would impact
Westham in that way so it becomes a separate society, a parallel society, I think
that's very worrying.

AMANPOUR: But for an architect like Ali Mangera, it's a challenge to build on.

MANGERA: We're trying to resolve the issues in an architectural sense. Our views
are really to get people together because ultimately, whether you're Muslim, Jewish
or Christian we're all human beings and we share this small planet and we have to
think about getting on with each other.

AMANPOUR: So who will win the battle of ideas? When mainstream and extremist
Muslims face off in debate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We like to die and you all like to live. You like to go to your
pubs, you like to see your wife and children. Good for you. So don't fight the Muslims
and you will be saved.


AMANPOUR: The battle for Islam is, in the end, a battle of ideas, and tonight, on the
campus of the prestigious Trinity College in Dublin, Ireland, there will be a debate
between mainstream Muslims and the self-appointed apostles of Islamic Holy War.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to bill (ph) and welcome to
this ex belief (ph) that Islamist violence can never be justified.

AMANPOUR: The small group of Islamic extremists who turn up at every rally and
protest in Britain have come here to Ireland to debate moderate clerics who say their
religion has been hijacked by the likes of Anjem Choudary and Omar Brooks.

OMAR BROOKS, MUSLIM RADICAL: ... Muslims. We dream of the blood of enemy.
We can face them anywhere. That is Islam, that is jihad (Arabic). He said, I laugh
when I kill and he said to his own people (Arabic), He said I come to slaughter all of
you. So anyone who wants to stand and face the Muslims he will face the banner of

AMANPOUR: There aren't many people following the banner of Omar Brooks yet he
and his colleagues here have loudly dominated the public debate about Islam. But
tonight the moderates fight back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people ladies and gentlemen, have a good look at
them. They actually think if you kill children, if you kill women you go to heaven. You
have no chance in hell. You are a lawyer, Mr. Choudary - can I speak. You are a
lawyer and you would know you can't go to heaven unless you claim insanity. This is
not an ideology. It's a mental illness.

ANJEM CHOUDARY, MUSLIM RADICAL: It's a common thing to say that the enemy,
the babies, they kill children, they're fundamentalists. And that happens during the
Second World War. There's a lot of propaganda. What are Muslims supposed to do
being killed in the streets in Afghanistan and Baghdad and other places, in
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Palestine? Do they not have the same rights to defend themselves? In war, people
die. People kill each other.

MOHAMMED SHAMSUDDIN, MUSLIM RADICAL: You want to remove this idea is
Islam is a religion of piece. Islam is not a religion of peace. There is evidence in the
book of Islam called the Koran, sanctioning violence.

AMANPOUR: But does the Koran really sanction this kind of violence? No, says
Sheikh Shaheed, who has spent a lifetime fighting apartheid and Islamic extremism
in South Africa.

extremists claim to know Islam but the aliqab (ph) version of Islam that seem to
portray God and his messengers as cruel and uncompassionate monsters. I demand
them to provide proof from the text of the Koran, the holy book of Islam.

MOHAMMED SHAMSUDDIN, MUSLIM RADICAL: Chapter 9, verse 29, what does
Allah say, fight those of you who do not believe in Allah and in hereafter.

AMANPOUR: To decipher the Koran we visited the same East End neighborhood
where our journey began, to talk to Imam Usama Hassan.

(on camera): They say but look these verses in the Koran that are quoted justify this
kind of violence. What's going on?

HASSAN: Those verses are always taken totally out of context and nearly always
ignoring the spiritual aspect, the aspect which talks about forgiveness and

AMANPOUR: Few people here have studied the Koran as closely as Imam Hassan.
He had memorized it by the time he was 11, and at 19, he briefly fought in the jihad
against communists in Afghanistan. But he says there is no justification for violent
jihad in Britain.

HASSAN: If you have the wrong intention you can justify your criminal actions from
any text, whether it's the Koran, the Bible or Shakespeare. There are passages in the
New Testament where Jesus Christ is alleged to say, "Think not that I have come to
bring peace. I have come to bring the sword."

That's a famous quote in the New Testament. But clearly, most Christians don't
misunderstand that to justify terrorism and wanton violence.

AMANPOUR (on camera): What is your reaction when you hear this book, the Koran,
and those words taken in vain, to justify what you've called crazy Islamic terrorism?

HASSAN: It makes me furious, the people who do that kind of action and who
support it are a very tiny minority, but it only takes a handful of course to create

AMANPOUR (voice-over): And that is why Imam Hassan's message to his flock at
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Friday prayers is so urgent.

HASSAN: Many people are terrified of Muslims. They are terrified of a brother
walking down the road with his eastern dress, and his hat and beard they see the
image associated with suicide bombers. And it is up to us to dispel that fear, to smile
at people, to tell them that Islam is not about bits of cloth, it is not about the face veil
or headscarf or the face veil or about violence. It is about peace.

AMANPOUR: No one knows who will win Britain's battle for Islam. Will it be those
fighting the new jihad to claim back their faith? Or those who want to use religion as a
weapon? The outcome will resonate far beyond these streets. These neighborhoods,
and even these borders. As the rest of the world watches Britain's war within

Reference & Library Studies : Update and revision will be confirm

           -   asiaaudiovisual
           -   CNN
           -   BBC
           -   Metro TV
           -   Kompas
           -   Detik
           -   Etc

References (Update) : asiaaudiovisual research - 2007

   1. ^ Page Moved - Bill Parks, Journalism Instructor - Ohlone College

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   2. ^ Lede (pronounced /ˈliːd/) is a traditional spelling, from the archaic English, used to
       avoid confusion with the printing press type formerly made from lead or the
       typographical term "leading".[1][2]
   3. ^ Unzipped! Newswriting by Chris Kensler
   4. ^ What the Heck Is a Hed/Dek? Learning the Lingo in Periodical Publishing By
       Janene Mascarella

Charnley, M. V. (1966). Reporting (2nd. Ed.). New York, NY: Holt.

Further reading (Update-Searching)

      Ellis, Barbara G. The Copy Editing and Headline Handbook (2007)
      Walter Fox. Writing the News: A Guide for Print Journalists (2001)
      Linda Jorgensen. Real-World Newsletters (1999)
      Mark Levin. The Reporter's Notebook : Writing Tools for Student Journalists (2000)
      Buck Ryan and Michael O'Donnell. The Editor's Toolbox: A Reference Guide for
       Beginners and Professionals, (2001)
      Allan M. Siegal and William G. Connolly. The New York Times Manual of Style and
       Usage: The Official Style Guide Used by the Writers and Editors of the World's Most
       Authoritative Newspaper, (2002)
      M. L. Stein, Susan Paterno, and R. Christopher Burnett, The Newswriter's Handbook
       Introduction to Journalism (2006)
      Bryan A. Garner. The Winning Brief: 100 Tips for Persuasive Briefing in Trial and
       Appellate Court (1999)
      Philip Gerard, Creative Nonfiction: Researching and Crafting Stories of Real Life
      Steve Peha and Margot Carmichael Lester, Be a Writer: Your Guide to the Writing
       Life (2006)
      Andrea Sutcliffe. New York Public Library Writer's Guide to Style and Usage, (1994)
      Bill Walsh, The Elephants of Style: A Trunkload of Tips on the Big Issues and Gray
       Areas of Contemporary American English (2004)

                                      Siti Nur Aisyiyah


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