1
UNITED
STATES
SECURITIES
AND EXCHANGE
COMMISSION
3 4 5
In
the
Matter
of: File No. OIC-509
GIG-509
7 8
PACES: DATE:
1 through Friday,
73 3anuary 23, 2009
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ยท TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
24
25
Diversified
Reporting
(202)
Services,Inc.
467-9200
Page
1
MADOFF
EXHIBITS-02541
1
APPEARANCES:
3
4 5 6 7 8
9
10
On behalf
HEIDI office
of the
securities
Investigator Inspector Exchange NE DC 20549
and
Exchange
Commission:
STEIBER, of the and
General Commission
Securities 100 F Street,
Washington,
(202) 551-5067
11
on
behalf
of
the
Interviewee:
12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
LAURA GOLDMAN, Pro
Se
1
P
R O C' E D IN
G S
2 3 Laura
Ms. STEIBER: Goldman,
This
is
going
to
be the by Heidi
interview steiber,
of
G-o-l-d-m-a-n,
Page 2
conducted
MADOFF
EXHIBITS-02542
4
5
S-t-e-i-b
time is
as in
10:00
boy,
e-r-.
The date
is
~anuary
23rd,
and the
a.m.
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 met Madoff at
Anyway, different talked of your first, with things about with
I wanted that
to
talk
to
you about about
a couple in the will past
of or
I know you talked and one of those the SEC in the
David, with just
things past, your but
be all
experiences if you could
I thought,
run me through heard
interactions and then just a
Madoff,
when you first of what -Sure. palm at
of Madoff,
chronology
MS. COLDMAN: in 1992 in
Okay,
okay.
First Then
of --
all, I was
I
Beach, the time,
Florida. so I
working
Painewebber
couldn't
invest
with
16 17
18
him because Painewebber,
know, I wasn't
it
would
have
been
against at
boat.
my contract painewebber.
at So -you
and I was doing
ready to rock
well
the
19 20
21
Then in I had my own firm
wanted -and I
1997,
I wasn't
working him again
about
at
Painewebber, and I
I wanted to
and
and I met with
want to be clear
this.
22 23 24
25
invest
with
him. okay?
Everyone -and
in the he wasn't
~ewish losing
community money.
loved It's
him, like
as you know, I'm
except
a great
sell,
salesman.
which is
Okay.
-you
I would
know, for
have
you do more work
work. I love
me not
1
2
it.
that.
Okay.
Okay?
The hard
part
is
picking
stocks
and things
like
3 4 5 6 7 originally, point
so I met with and I went
him. back --
I come from
philadelphia I had at Bear in one
and my offices, cleared Bear through office
an independent
firm in
Page
that the
3
Steams. the you that
So my offices Philadelphia
had been Stock
Steams
Exchange,
but
--
you know,
I tell
MADOFF
EXHIBITS-02543
8
for
a
reason.
9
10 strategy
when I got back,
basically was --
okay -- you know, Madoff's
you know, the stocks and the
simple
11 12 13 14 15
options. but I can
Okay. track which
I couldn't the is trading -to -those them
track of
the
trading
of Microsoft,
options. guys are
So I called just my personal they traded this with for
Susquehanna friends Madoff, and okay,
I talked because
about
whether
you know,
he was doing
16
17
18
options
He wasn't
trading,
trading
I talked
so he had to be trading
with
to
through
somebody.
them.
Personal Privacy
He's
head
of
--
he
was
19
20
21
head of the
wasn't trading
Personal Privacy
at that
and I talked
down there.
time.
of
street
He
other
there,
that
Personal Privacy
to
a bunch
Market
the
market-makers
I
knew
22 23
Securities, these people
all
kinds with
of
people,
and none
of
were
trading
Madoff.
24
25 went --
That already
because --
told
me something
these are
was wrong.
the big players.
so I
you know,
1 2 3 4
Okay? volume they're him.
I mean, on the doing He called
Susquehanna New York none Stock
at
one point Exchange. so,
was like so -okay, in
Number 10 in
you know, I went back I went to
of thistrading? he was trading
me that
New York.
5
6 7
8
back to all
in
these
firms
to ask them how you could
and they told me that
be trading
it's he be
New York American more
that?
stocks not
probably
doing
expensive,
as efficient,
why would
9
10 was wrong.
Okay?
Okay.
So that
At that
Page
was my second
point
4
clue
that
sec.
something
I did not
I called
the
MADOFF
EXHIBITS-02544
4
auditors
--
you
know,
it's
bullshit.
You
know
what
I'm
5
6
saying?
Leventhal.
They're
I was
all
an
shitty.
accounting
No, no,
major
no.
at
I worked
wharton.
at
okay. I
7
8
worked
were
at
sued
Leventhal
for bad
and Horowitz.
audits all the
I apparently
time, so who
-cares
and
they
what
9
10
firm
you're
at?
MS. STEIBER: So were there --
11
Was there
anything
else
about
the
documents
that
12
13 14 15 16 17
you were
provided
that
raised
well,
any
okay. the
red
flags
The
or
-is, but is it that, was --
MS. COLDMAN: it was a -I mean,
thing
obviously Of the It
consistency,
MS.
STEIBER:
returns? just month. the You consistency, know what I'm but
MS. GoLDMAN: it wasn't -it was like
wasn't every
18
19 20
trying
month which
to
he is
say?
did not .2
when I say
and then the
that,
next It
it
wasn't
month was it
like,
did i,
okay,
you .8,
one
know, .9,
a big
difference.
basically
21
22
point,
you know what
MS. STEIBER:
I mean,
Right.
all
in the
Had you
same cluster.
ever -you said
23
24
25
you've
consistency
looked
of
MS.
at
a lot
of firms.
-Yes.
Have you seen
that
type
of
returns
GOLDMAN:
13
1
2
MS.
MS.
STEIBER:
GOLDMAN:
-Yes.
in
a
firm?
3 4 5 sure he's
MS. MS. not
STEIBER: GOLDMAN: in business
Okay. okay. any I don't more, but know I if -I'm pretty him
could
track
6
down for
you because
I used
Page 11
to
have
a lot
of money with
MADOFF
EXHIBITS-02545
7
8 9
10 11
Personal Privacy Personal Privacy
He was in the Bermudas.
I don't know howmuch these
He was a protege
you know about mean anything
of
the to
business.
you.
I don't
know whether
names
MS. STEIBER:
No,
but
other
than
this
one
other
12
13
14
person,
consistent
this
was fairly
returns?
unusual
to
see
these
types
of
MS.
GOLDMAN:
Yes.
15 16 17
18
MS. STEIBER:
Okay. level. aim to Okay. do that You know what but not to I'm that
MS. COLDMAN: That saying?
level.
There
are
people
that
19
MS.
STEIBER:
Not
to
that
level.
So
this
was
the
20
21 22 23
most
consistent
returns,
consistent
Right, right.
returns
that
you've
seen?
MS. COLDMAN: MS. that raised STEIBER: suspicions?
So anything
else
about
the
documents
any
24
25 advertised
MS. GOLDMAN: Well,
him. He didn't say
okay,
I
Madoff
really
He said
what
he
we
couldn't.
14
1
preferred,
I
didn't.
2
3 about the
MS. STEIBER:
documents that
Okay.
you
Right
saw.
now, we're
just
talking
4
5
MS. COLDMAN: Oh, no,
MS. STEIBER: Nothing
no,
else
nothing.
about the documents.
6 7 8
9
Okay.
so then
let's
walk
through
your
meeting
with
him. that
Do you have you go through
a standard
due diligence someone?
I have a list
procedure
when you interview
I mean,
MS. GOLDMAN:
of
--
I
mean,
I
10
have
a standard.
I have
Page
a list
12
of questions
--
you know,
MADOFF
EXHIBITS-02546
11
12
like
kind
how much money you have,
of questions.
dah-dah-dah
--
you know,
those
13
14 he'd actually
okay.
NOW, in my previous
talked to me --
meeting
with
the
guy,
15 16 17 18
19
MS. STEIBER:
Oh, okay. in a fairly, you know, open
MS. GOLDMAN: -manner. shuffling,
questions.
when I started as they say.
asking
him questions, he didn't
he started really answer
You know,
20
21
22
MS. STEIBER:
people -MS. GOLDMAN:
Was this
unusual
compared
to
other
Yes.
23 24 25 many assets
MS.
STEIBER:
-Yes,
you'd yes.
done I
-mean, whenI he didn't said want how to
MS. GOLDMAN: do you have
under
management,
15
1
answer.
I mean,
these
are
standard
questions.
2
3 wouldn't
Ms. STEIBER:
say how much --
Did he say
--
did
he say
why he
4 5 6 7 8
9
10
MS. COLDMAN: He did said, have "Don't torealize worry about those
answer things."
eventually, You know,
but
he you
first,
probably
one of the
reasons tell
he picked me, every "Don't
me is, time worry
you know, I asked
your
that.
he was a chauvinist. he would
about
He would say,
him a question,
pretty head
you know,
You know
little
that."
how I loved
11
MS.
STEIBER:
Yeah.
I'm
sure
that
was
much
12 13
appreciated. MS. COLDMAN: Yeah.
Page 13
You know,
I was much younger
MADOFF
EXHIBITS-02547
14 15
16 17
then the
and much skinner,.so ~ewish community.
than the rest
it
wasn't they
world,
so unusual, are actually
but that's
especially more
another
in
I mean,
of the
chauvinist story.
18 19 20 21
22 23
24
25 vou know
But anyway, say, "Look how lucky
so he would you are, we're
say
that,
and then
would
going
to make you a Okay. to
mi Ilionai so,
say?
re."
vou know, what the
I was already
a millionaire. I'm trying
you know,
hell.
vou know what
MS.
MS.
what
STEIBER:
COLDMAN:
I mean? It
Right,
would
was
right.
he have said that to a man?
obnoxious.
16
1 2 3
4 you.
So -so many red flags.
but
I
really
want you go
to know,
say --
to
you
there
weren't
I mean, Let's
MS.
STEIBER:
through
them
as
they
struck
5 6
7 like how --
MS. CoLDMAN: MS. STEIBER:
okay. Right.
Co ahead, Could you
go
ahead. walk through
just
8
9 10 11 12 did that for? know, you this It you --
MS. GOLDMAN: MY first
did much, was just you it's invest? about a stupid and then, But, that, question, you
question
hey, what you do of you
was howmuch
know, you need I at he
money
answered to need know to time,
Course know,
know,
know,
that
13 14
15
he told three
me, this million
Then,
was 1997, three
you
that
he was -three
my next
he was investing Sorry.
was
--
billion,
my --
billion.
question
Okay.
how many
know,
16 17
employees
does
the
firm
Page
have? okay.
14
MS. STEIBER:
And what
did
he say,
and was
MADOFF
EXHIBITS-02548